2013 01-17E IDIAN~-- MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
i D A H o COMMISSION MEETING
AGENDA
City Council Chambers
33 E. Broadway Avenue, Meridian, Idaho
Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 7:00 p.m.
1.
Roll-call Attendance
X Tom O'Brien
X Michael Rohm
X
X_ Steven Yearsley
X Joe Marshall
Scott Freeman -Chairman
2.
Adoption of the Agenda Approved
3.
Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of December 20, 2012 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting Approved as Amended
4. Action Items
A. Continued Public Hearing from December 20, 2012: PP 12-016
Fall Creek Subdivision by Coleman Homes, LLC Located
South of W. Overland Road on the East Side of S. Linder Road
Request: Preliminary Plat Consisting of 296 Building Lots and
32 Common /Other Lots on 110.54 Acres of Land in an R-8
Zoning District Recommend Approval to City Council
B. Public Hearing: CPAM 12-006 Larkspur West by Sawtooth
Land Surveying, LLC Located 105 E. Edmonds Court Request:
Amendment to the Comprehensive Plan to Change the Future
Land Use Map Designation on 4.51 Acres of Land from Low
Density Residential to Office (1.01 Acres) and Medium Density
Residential (3.50 Acres) Recommend Approval to City
Council
C. Public Hearing: CPAM 12-005 Cavanaugh by W.H. Moore
Company Located Southeast Corner of S. Meridian Road and
E. Victory Road Request: Amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan to Change the Future Land Use Map Designation on 32 +/-
Acres of Land from Mixed Use Neighborhood with a
Neighborhood Center Overlay to Medium Density Residential;
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Agenda -Thursday, January 17, 2013Page 1 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
and From Medium Density Residential to Medium High Density
Residential Recommend Approval to City Council
D. Public Hearing: CUP 12-021 Heron Village by Alliance
Management Consultants Located at 2250 N. Meridian Road
Request: Conditional Use Permit for a Multi-Family
Development Consisting of 110 Dwelling Units on 5.5 Acres in
the R-40 and C-G Zoning Districts Approve
5. Other Items
A. Election of New Officers 2013 -Chair and Vice-Chair
Chair -Steven Yearsley
Vice Chair -Joe Marshall
Meeting adjourned at 9:05 p.m.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Agenda -Thursday, January 17, 2013Page 2 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission_ January 17, 2013
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of January 17, 2013, was
called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Scott Freeman.
Present: Chairman Scott Freeman, Commissioner Steven Yearsley, Commissioner
Michael Rohm, Commissioner Tom O'Brien and Commissioner Joe Marshall.
Others Present: Machelle Hill, Ted Baird, Caleb Hood, Sonya Watters, Sonya Waters,
Bruce Freckleton and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance:
Roll-call
X Steven Yearsley X Tom O'Brien
X Michael Rohm X Joe Marshall
X Scott Freeman -Chairman
Freeman: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I'd like to call to order the
regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for this
date of January 17th, 2013. Let's begin with roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda.
Freeman: Thank you. First order of business is the adoption of the agenda. I don't
have any proposed changes to the agenda tonight, so could I get a motion?
Rohm: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
Freeman: I believe I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of December 20, 2012 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
Freeman: First Item on the agenda is the approval of the Consent Agenda. This
evening we have on the Consent Agenda only the minutes of December 20th, 2012,
Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Are there any corrections? I'm aware of
one. It has Commissioner Rohm marked as the chairman, which is not true as of
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 2 of 41
December. Could be true again. So, we need to correct that. Other than that any
corrections? Could I get a motion to approve the Consent Agenda?
O'Brien: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as we
proposed to amend it. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Before I open our first public hearing tonight I just want to review the process
briefly for those of you who might be new to the process. We will open each item and,
then, we will begin with the staff report on that particular application, after which time the
applicant will be given an opportunity to come forward and present their application.
The applicant will be given 15 minutes. After applicant testimony, then, I will take any
public testimony. Individuals are given up to three minutes to come forward and offer
public testimony. There are sign-up sheets in the back, so if you wish to testify on any
one of these items it helps if you put your name on those sheets. However, if your
name is not on the sign-up sheet I will still take a show of hands if anybody else wishes
to testify before we close the public hearing. After we have heard all the public
testimony, then, the applicant will be given another ten minutes if they wish to come
forward and address anything that has been addressed by the public testimony and
after which time we will close the public hearing, the Commissioners will deliberate and
we will come out, hopefully, with a recommendation for City Council.
Item 4: Action Items
A. Continued Public Hearing from December 20, 2012: PP 12-016
Fall Creek Subdivision by Coleman Homes, LLC Located
South of W. Overland Road on the East Side of S. Linder Road
Request: Preliminary Plat Consisting of 296 Building Lots and
32 Common /Other Lots on 110.54 Acres of Land in an R-8
Zoning District
Freeman: With that I would like to open the public hearing -- the continued public
hearing from December 20th, 2012, of PP 12-016, Fall Creek Subdivision, beginning
with the staff report.
Wafters: Thank you, Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission. The first
application before you tonight is a preliminary plat. This site consists of 111.26 acres of
land. It's currently zoned R-8 and is located south of West Overland Road between
South Linder and South Stoddard Roads north of the Ridenbaugh Canal. Adjacent land
uses and zoning. To the north are rural residential and agricultural uses, zoned R-8 and
RUT in Ada County. To the east is Stoddard Road and residential and agricultural uses
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 3 of 41
and a church zoned R-8 and RUT in Ada County. To the south are residential uses,
zoned R-1 in Ada County. And to the west is Linder Road and future residential uses
and possibly a future school and library, zoned R-4, R-8, TN-R and TN-C. A little
history. This site was annexed and preliminary platted in 2005 with the Bear Creek
West project, which consisted 321 single family residential lots and their preliminary plat
has since expired, but there is a development agreement that is still in effect for this
property. The proposed plat consists of 297 single family residential building lots and
30 common other lots on 111.26 acres of land zoned R-8. This is a little lower than the
previous Bear Creek West Subdivision. The proposed density is 2.66 dwelling units per
acre, which is consistent, although a little at the low end of the medium density
residential future land use map designation in the R-8 zoning. The plat is proposed to
develop in eight phases per the phasing plan. Lots depicted on the proposed plat meet
the dimensional standards of the R-8 zoning district. However, there are several blocks
that exceed the maximum length allowed by the UDC of 750 feet without an intersecting
street or alley. Because staff is contemplating a text amendment to the UDC in regard
to block lengths, staff has included a condition of approval that the applicant comply
with the block length standards in effect at the time of submittal of the final plat
application. If the block lengths do not comply with UDC standards in effect at that time
the preliminary plat will need to be revised. Access to the site is proposed via Kodiak
Drive, a collector street -- should be right here through the development connecting to
Stoddard Road at the east boundary and South Linder Road at the west boundary of
the site. The Ridenbaugh Canal lies right here along the south boundary. Local streets
are provided off of the collector street for interconnectivity within the subdivision. One
stub street is proposed to the north right here for future extension and interconnectivity.
A new traffic impact study has been prepared and submitted to the Ada County
Highway District for review, but comments have not yet been received from the ACRD
on this application. There is an existing home right here that currently takes access via
Linder Road. With development of the plat access for this lot is required to be provided
internally via West Old River Drive. The existing private access point to Linder should
be removed. A 25 foot wide street buffer is required to be constructed along Linder
Road, an arterial street, and a 20 foot wide buffer is required along Stoddard and
Kodiak, both collector streets. A ten foot wide multi-use pathway is required to be
constructed on the site along West Kodiak Drive, the collector, and north from Kodiak
along the east side of Linder to the north boundary of the site. The landscape plan has
not yet been revised to match the revised plat, but will be prior to the City Council
meeting. The applicant has submitted the plat right here, the little green stuff showing
the -- the common areas. The plat depicts 11.51 percent open space for the site, a
minimum of five amenities are required. The applicant proposes a swimming pool
facility with playground equipment and a picnic shelter to be constructed within the first
phase of development, with minor amenities in each of the four pocket parks. And
those you see here. The little larger ones. Staff has requested the applicant provide
details of the amenities at the hearing tonight. The Ridenbaugh Canal, as I stated
previously, runs along the south boundary of the site and the Hardin Drain runs across
the northern portion of the site here. The Hardin Drain will be piped. The applicant is
requesting a waiver from City Council with the requirement to pipe the Ridenbaugh due
to its large capacity. Building elevations were submitted for the proposed homes in the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 4 of 41
development. I have a lot of them here, so I will just kind of flip here so you guys can
kind of get a good idea. Written testimony was received from Becky McKay, the
applicant's representative, in response to the staff report. Staff is recommending
approval of the proposed plat with the conditions in the staff report. Staff will stand for
any questions the Commission may have.
Freeman: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions of staff at this time?
Marshall: I do.
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Sonya, could you elaborate on the -- the idea of contemplating submitting the
UDC text amendment to the block length requirements, please?
Wafters: I'm going to let Caleb speak to that, if you don't mind here
Marshall: Thank you.
Hood: Mr. Chair, Commissioner Marshall, and the rest of the Commissioners, my short
stint as the interim planning division manager it has come to my attention that the
current UDC section relating to block face requirements is a little restrictive, so we
haven't yet submitted an application, but I have talked to this applicant, as well as
another one that is looking to submit another preliminary plat -- about allowing block
lengths -- previously we allowed a micropath lot of some other open spaces to
constitute a block in the -- a break in a block face. Here about two years ago I think the
UDC was amended and that is no longer an allowance, so what we would like to do is
propose a UDC amendment in the next couple of months that would, obviously, run
through this body, as well as the City Council to -- I'm not going to say we are going to
go back to way it was, but something in between probably what we currently have on
the books and what we previously had on the books two, three, four years ago. Again,
the intent would still be there where we would encourage shorter blocks, but 750 at
typical lot size you don't get very many homes on a block, so they are ending up putting
more streets in than really are necessary. So, the intent behind having short blocks and
restricting it to 750 feet because they didn't want long, straight race tracks in these -- in
projects. So, the 750 -- again, I think we can meet a lot of the intent having
interconnectivity still. Not having those -- those straight long blocks, but maybe a little
more wiggle room in design, rather than 750. So, we haven't yet submitted, but we are
working. We met on Monday as staff to kind of figure out where that happy place is
between our old code and the current code and I anticipate we will have something
submitted here probably before the end of this month.
Marshall: Again, Caleb, I'd ask has the Fire Department commented on any of the
proposed changes?
Hood: Well, Mr. Chair, Commissioner Marshall, we have not communicated with any
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 5 of 41
other staff to this point. We certainly will go through that process. So, no, I guess that's
the short -- the short answer to your question.
Marshall: Is it 750 feet -- if it went with an R-8 -- and I'm looking at other potential
projects -- you're going to have as many as 21 houses?
Hood: So, Mr. Chair, Commissioner Marshall, one of the -- one of the things also
contemplated -- I mentioned micropaths constituting a block length. The other thing that
we may do is put in a maximum number of units per block face, 15, 20, somewhere in
there, and say regardless of how wide your lots are you can't have more than 20
accesses on any one side and, then, that will also dictate how long your block may be.
So, no more than, again, 15 to 20, something like that. As you can see, some of these
ones that are longer -- there is, ten, 12. So, that would even give them -- pretty typical
for Meridian, but on the smaller side. That's another way we can measure that to,
again, still meet the intent, but not have -- regardless of how big your lots are, it's 750
feet and add a little more flexibility in that.
Freeman: If I can interject, Commissioner Marshall. It's my understanding the way you
have written these requirements, though, that no matter which standard is in effect at
the time that standard is going to govern, so if it doesn't change, the current standards
will govern. If it does change, the new standards, which we will have a chance to
review and deliberate on, will govern. But what those specifically are we just -- we don't
know at this time; correct?
Hood: That is correct.
Freeman: Thank you. Thank you. Further questions?
Marshall: No. I will save my --
Freeman: Other questions? Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant like to come
forward? Please state your name and address for the record. And you have 15
minutes.
McKay: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Becky McKay,
Engineering Solutions, business address 1028 North Rosario, Meridian. I thought it was
casual day, so -- it was too cold to wear a suit, to be honest with you. I just could not do
it when it's three degrees. So, bear with me. Casual night. I'm representing the
applicant this evening, Coleman Homes. As staff indicated -- can you pop that up,
Sonya? The project came through for annexation and zoning in 2005 as Bear Creek
West. I did do the land planning on that particular subdivision and we also did a
considerable amount of civil engineering. The project was never built. We did,
however, design the sewer so that the -- the Black Cat sewer -- the South Black Cat
trunk could be constructed along -- oh, oh. There we go. Constructed along this future
collector roadway and go all the way out to Stoddard and, then, head eastward over to
Victory Road and pick up those subdivisions that -- that have been approved out there
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 6 of 41
around that similar time. Since that project kind of, you know, went by the wayside, Mr.
Coleman picked this up -- part of it from a bank, part of it from a trust, and thank
goodness he was able to put it all back together, because the configuration was not real
conducive to a good site plan. So -- so we are pleased that he took the time and effort
to do that. One of the things that changed from the original plan is this LDS church --
about five and a half acres was split out of the subdivision and it came on line and they
built parcel improvements in that Kodiak Drive collector. Just to the north of that
collector out to Stoddard Road is a middle school site that my original client back in
2005 sold to Meridian School District. They have just kind of sat on the property waiting
until such time as the need arises and, then, obviously, they will proceed forward.
There was a bond in place or a letter of credit in place for the street improvements that
abutted the -- all along the frontage for sewer, water, and street and curb, gutter and
sidewalk and the school district did call that bond and the school district took
possession of those monies for those improvements. So, we will be coordinating with
the school district, obviously, on getting these facilities installed. In this particular area
of Bear Creek -- this is pretty consistent with the Bear Creek development. We have
different size lots. It's just on the east side of Stoddard. We have Bear Creek Park that
was done. That's a community park. I think it's around 18 acres. You have the
Southridge Subdivision that was approved -- I think their first phase has been built and
so this area, you know, is starting to gain speed as far as development is concerned
with the new Ten Mile interchange opening up. This kind of gives you an aerial photo of
this vicinity. As you can see the Ridenbaugh Canal is all along our south boundary.
The lots that are south of that are estate lots. They were platted years ago in the
county. They are primarily one, two acres and, then, as you move west of Linder those
lots are five's and ten's. As staff indicated, we -- we modified our plat and the reason
being is -- in the original subdivision plat we have a variance approved by the Council
for the block length. The topography is such on the property -- and now that the sewer
was constructed in the collector, that kind of set that street location. We had to,
obviously, work around existing services and, then, think through the topography, the
grading of the site. There is quite a bit of slope from the Ridenbaugh Canal to the south
and it slopes northward and, then, we also have some slope that comes from the north
down to -- this is the Hardin Drain and it's piped right here at Southridge with I think a 15
inch pipe. It is our intent to go ahead and pipe that through us. We will have to
coordinate with Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District, but in modifying the plat we found
that there was kind of an error in your ordinance that there are only certain provisions
which allow you to substitute a micropath or say a pocket park to break a particular
block and, otherwise, you have to provide a stub street and when staff started really
looking at it you could even potentially have to provide a stub street to properties that
are developed and so it would be a stub street to nowhere, if you took the literal
interpretation of the code. So, staff, after reviewing it, indicated, you know, there are
some flaws in it. We were trying to fix it a couple years ago. We think maybe we made
it worse. We like the fact that you're breaking up your blocks with these pocket parks
here, you know, so that you do have cars as they enter into those different pod areas
those headlights aren't going into lots. One of the other things that we looked at as far
as breaking blocks just for the sake of limiting the block lengths to 750 is the cost. I
mean you, obviously, have to look at the cost and the benefit of those streets. The cost
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 7 of 41
just to break the blocks -- the improvements exceeded 300,000 dollars and we lost
about a dozen lots. So, the cost of that -- I mean we were looking at a conservative
number of it could cost 700,000 dollars and that just doesn't make any sense, because
the reason you break the blocks, like Caleb said, when you have a neo-traditional site,
very narrow lots, and you're trying to limit the number of lots on a block for
transportation purposes and internal circulation, but when we have these 90 foot lots, 85
foot lots, 75 foot lots, even 100, you can't get very many in a block with that 750. So, for
example, on the transportation when we look at this particular street here there is only a
couple hundred cars per day coming up and down that street, but based on the
ordinance we should have to put another street in at a significant cost. Why do you
need the street? That was one of the questions that we asked the staff, when a local
street carries up to a thousand trips a day, that's the ACHD threshold. So, these are
some of the things that we worked with the staff and they have been very patient with us
and -- and we work through them, we came to you this evening to -- to, obviously, with
the intent that down the road they will adopt that ordinance and we will be able to
deviate from that 750. In laying this subdivision out we wanted to, obviously, create a
central open space here as far as the design is concerned. There will be will a
changing facility, pool. There will be a covered picnic area. Playground. We looked at
it from taking -- obviously taking micro -- pedestrians that direction. We looked at
pedestrians coming this direction over to the church and, then, going across at some
future date to the middle school. One of the ways -- one of the other items that we
deviated from was the pathway plan shows a pathway along the canal. Well, your
pathway to the east is on the south side and the reason being is that's where it's at
grade. On the north side you have got significant slope. After analyzing it we could not
meet ADA standards. In fact, it was about 16 percent to try to get back up. We couldn't
even get up to Linder. So, we met with parks, they came -- we worked with them to
come up with a solution and they said, you know, it makes sense that the micropath --
orthe multi-use pathway will come down to the collector, then, they can go to the school
-- or to the park, to the school, and, then, we will build amulti-use pathway that
direction. So, we did come to a compromise and the Parks Department said, you know,
those are only a guiding document, that we do have the flexibility. As far as the product
that we are looking at, we are -- they are going to have three different types of lots. Our
minimum lot size is 6,200. We average about 10,800 square feet. They will have three
different products, what they call the Countryside, this is the larger product, it will be on
the larger lots. This is their new design. This gives you a streetscape. Then they will
have what they call their Woodland collection. That will be on say the 75's and, then,
we also have 55's. They also anticipate that they may build some of the Garden
collections, but that would just be north of the collector on the smaller lots. This kind of
shows you the original preliminary plat that was approved, so a lot -- there is a lot of
similarities and, like I said, we couldn't deviate a lot from it due to topography, existing
collector roadway, and utilities. One of the -- one of the things that the staff did bring to
our attention is there was an out-parcel on Linder Road that was originally part of the
annexation included in the preliminary plat. This lot was not part of our application. It's
owned by a separate owner. His name is Nick Hansen. The staff asked me to contact
him, which I did. I got a verbal permission that, yes, it makes sense that be included in
the plat, even though he meets the dimensional standards for the R-8 zone, the parcel
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 8 of 41
was illegally divided from the parent parcel. So, I said, you know, it's, obviously, in your
best interest to be included in our plat to legalize the parcel. It's considerably lower than
Linder Road. As you can see there is a guardrail and the whole front of the lot is
landscaped with mature trees, shrubs. The home was built in 1920 and he told me it's
all solid oak, even the framing inside. He said it's a pretty amazing house and built very
solid. We are providing him a sewer service, water service pressure irrigation and a
connection to an internal street, so that he can take -- eliminate the driveway and take
access internally. He said that that -- that he would agree to that. I mentioned it in my
comments to the staff. My concern is I have a verbal from him, but I don't have any
right to go on his property, we don't have any right to close his driveway. Obviously,
need his cooperation. I think Caleb has indicated that, you know, we can kind of work
through that issue when we get to the Council. It made sense to him that -- that they
could kind of word it a little bit differently. Let's see. There we go. On the particular plat
we do have an internal collector that collects traffic and takes it down to this primary
collector, links Linder and Stoddard Road. We will have heavy landscaping, detached
sidewalks all through this project. In each pocket park the applicant intends to have
some type of a minor amenities, obviously, to serve those -- those different vicinities
within the parcel, because it is a larger parcel. We did identify in our comments to the
staff what those amenities are. We are required to do five amenities and in my
comment to the staff, you know, we need to satisfy that. We will submit a revised
landscape plan prior to Council, but anything above that is, obviously, at the discretion
of the applicant. So, in my comments I think I just want to address some of these
issues. 1.1.7 deals with the Hansen property and as far as creating a separate
landscape lot he already has his front landscaped. If we created a separate lot the
house would be about two feet from that lot line. If we continued it on. So, therefore, it
would be nonconforming. So, I'd like, obviously, some relief from that when we go to
the Council. As far as the frontage that deals with elimination of the driveway. I need
his consent on 1.1.8. Obviously, we would have to request a waiver for tiling the
Ridenbaugh, because it exceeds a 36 inch. Under the Public Works comments, under
2.1, the 27 inch sewer was installed through the property. We will be paying a
latecomer fee. I think they talked about East Victory Road and that was just an error
and I talked to Bruce about that and he agreed that the reference to East Victory was --
was incorrect. On 2.4 it basically said that we would continue the sewer south on Linder
Road. I did chat with Bruce about that. As far as, obviously, the sewer that we flow into
is the existing 27 inch trunk. There is Southridge to the west of us, so as far as
installation of any utilities to and through in Linder, Bruce said it's whomever goes first,
but I just don't think it's fair that one particular project has to bear the burden, plus their
project. There is a large parcel, about 152 acres to the south of Victory and another 40
acres that will utilize that trunk. So, I believe that they will be eligible for latecomer fees
according to Bruce. We will work with the staff on that.
Freeman: Ms. McKay, that was our 15 minutes.
McKay: I will finalize, sir. Thank you very much. And I believe those were the only
comments that we had. Oh. Lastly was about the pedestrian crossings. We have to
meet Ada County Highway District standards. I think the staff got specific as far as the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 9 of 41
materials we'd use to make pedestrian friendly crossings. We have to comply with
ACRD, so I just ask that you say, you know, we comply with Ada County Highway
District. We have no problems signing -- signing the ped crossings, striping them,
making them as safe as possible, but I don't want to have any specific language as far
as materials, whether it be, you know, pavers -- specific pavers or ridges or something
to delineate a ped crossing. I got to work with the district. Thank you. Do you have any
questions?
Freeman: Thank you. I know I have one and there may be some others. I'm still a little
bit in the dark on these minor amenities. My understanding is we are supposed to hear
what those might be this evening and I may have missed it, but I'm not clear
nonetheless.
McKay: Okay. I'll talk fast. I apologize. The minor amenities -- the primary park is
located -- the -- the primary park is located right here on the Kodiak collector. The
amenities in that will be the pool, changing rooms. It will also have like a gazebo or
covered patio area with picnic tables and it will have playground equipment. We are
also building the multi-use pathway that counts as an amenity. We are about 11
percent open space and delineated in this pocket park located right here in this pod that
we will be installing playground equipment and covered picnic area. So, those meet --
those -- that's, basically, I think six amenities total. We have this pocket park that we
will be installing some amenities in that the client is still kind of thinking through.
Obviously, it's a larger project, the marketplace dictates, you know, what -- as far as
what are people demanding as amenities in their projects, so that's why we tried to --
tried to provide some flexibility and listed those as minor amenities, because we don't
know. I got into a situation with another preliminary plat that was back in 2004 or '5
where we had stipulated a basketball court and -- or a playground and, then, the client
built a basketball court. And even though we had final plat approval, the final landscape
plan the staff said, well, it didn't match it and the application needed to be made, so
what we are trying to do is provide a little bit of flexibility. You know, what's going to sell
lots four years from now when we get to the last phase or the fifth -- or five years from
now. You know, the amenities may be a little bit different in the little pocket parks, but
as far as the primary amenities we have delineated them.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Are there other questions of the applicant?
O'Brien: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Becky, so just above the Ridenbaugh Canal in the center there I think it has to
do with the 750 foot issue. If you have -- if you do not have to build the access in
between where you have it greened out, if you will --
McKay: Yes, sir.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 10 of 41
O'Brien: -- what will become of that space? How will you use it if you don't have to
build a road there?
McKay: Oh, it is -- it's open space, sir.
O'Brien: Open space?
McKay: Open -- it's open space.
O'Brien: No amenities --
McKay: Yeah. If you look -- it's -- we have got a micropath here -- oops. Here is a
micropath there. Then we have this open space. We have detached walks and an
open space located here.
O'Brien: Okay.
McKay: We have open space here, a micropath in this location there and there. And
one of the things we did when we modified the plat is we added some additional width
to some of those open space lots to make them even wider, because one of the things
the staff said, you know, we kind of agree that these pocket parks will break that block
and for traffic purposes you don't need the street. So, the intent is you just don't have,
you know, 40 lots all in a row, just continuous houses.
O'Brien: One other question.
McKay: Yes, sir.
O'Brien: Novice as I am, what do you mean when you say it's noted on the -- like on
point three, point four, you have noted the information on there, but what does that
mean to me? To fly or not fly by --
McKay: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner O'Brien, in some of staffs comments it will say
that -- you know, it will just make kind of a statement and so, then, I just reference it as
being noted that, yes, we recognize it, we note it, I guess you could say we comply.
O'Brien: There you go.
McKay: I usually say we comply to something specific. Sometimes they just say, you
know, you're on notice that -- for this or you got to do that, yeah. Yes, sir.
O'Brien: Thank you.
McKay: The only ones that we -- we address that we were not in compliance with or we
wanted, you know, some relief from are bolded, sir.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 11 of 41
O'Brien: All right.
McKay: Everything else is --
O'Brien: Just wanted it clarified. Thanks.
McKay: Okay. Thank you.
Freeman: Other questions? Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Hi, Becky. Staff comments. The acreage dedicated to eligible common
space on the landscape plan shown as 10.52 acres. Is that still correct?
McKay: Our open space with revisions went up a little bit. You will -- we will exceed ten
percent.
Marshall: Okay.
McKay: I think we are -- we have been hovering around 11 percent. So, it did go up.
Marshall: It did show that you were at 11.51 on the plat, but the landscape plan only
shows 9.52.
McKay: The landscape plan was in error.
Marshall: Got you.
McKay: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. To clarify that, the landscape plan was in error. We
checked all of our numbers. The preliminary plat is correct. And, then, we made some
revisions, the open space went up a little bit more.
Marshall: Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
Freeman: Other questions? All right. Thank you. Okay. At this time I'd like to open it
up for public testimony and I do have a few people that have put their names on the
sign-up sheet. As I call your name indicate to me whether you do intend to testify or
not. Jennifer and Gary Price. No? Ruth Ann Green? I think it's Richard Green? Okay.
And there was somebody else here. I think the name is Luke. Not wanting to testify at
this time? Okay. Before I close the public hearing, Becky, there may be some things
you want to address again after we have some discussion. I had a question of staff.
think you know this is coming. I heard from the applicant what their intention is for the --
the minor amenities and it still sounds somewhat open ended to me. So, I'm still a bit
confused as to -- is that something that will be taken up with staff prior to City Council or
is that something we need to determine in concrete today before we can approve this
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 12 of 41
with your recommendations?
Wafters: Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission, the applicant did submit a
written response to the staff report in which they detailed which amenities would be
provided, consisting of swimming pool, changing rooms, playground equipment,
covered picnic gazebo area on Lot 9, Block 6, and playground equipment and covered
picnic area on Lot 9, Block 2. These meet the very minimum requirements for site
amenities.
Freeman: Okay. So, that's both the primary and the minor amenity requirements.
Wafters: Yes.
Freeman: That was what I was curious about.
Wafters: We don't have a minor amenity requirement in our code.
Freeman: Okay.
Wafters: She had simply called that out on her plan.
Freeman: Yeah. I know that's the key word we are working with right now, so --
Wafters: Yes.
Freeman: So, I'm continuing to use it.
Wafters: Yes.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. The applicant -- is there
anything else that you need to address given what we just exchanged? Otherwise, I'm
going to close the public hearing and we are going to deliberate. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot
to ask if there is anybody else that wished to offer public testimony. Are you one?
Okay. Please come forward. Thank you for the reminder and state your name and
address for the record.
Robinson: Craig Robinson. 1345 West Overland. My neighbors on either side of me --
I'm kind of in the middle and represent the church lot on the north boundary and we just
had a few questions and don't know if this is the appropriate place or time, but in
regards to what that boundary line was going to look like finished in terms of
development -- whether there was going to be berms, fencing, how far off the setback.
We had an irrigation ditch that feeds all our properties going north towards Overland. I
guess the questions on how that's all going to sort out or -- if this is the right time to talk
about it.
Freeman: Okay. Actually, what I'm doing is I'm noting those and the applicant can
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 13 of 41
come forward and address those questions as she wishes.
Robinson: Okay.
Freeman: So, if you have more, go ahead and --
Robinson: That's it.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you very much. Would the applicant like to come forward now
and address those questions? Or that question I should say. Please state your name
and address again.
McKay: Becky McKay. To answer that question, when I did the original site plan back
in '05 I did meet with a representative from the church out at the site. We did walk it.
We talked about the ditch. So, I did recall the conversations that we had. It is our intent
to have vinyl fencing along that boundary and I did make those lots a little bit deeper
due to the fact that that ditch is located there. Obviously, when we do that phase we
will, you know, meet with the church and make sure that, you know, everything is, you
know, okay with them and that we are not disrupting their irrigation or if we are piping
they are in agreement with it. That's pretty much standard procedure. The only thing
did different in this particular plat is I did put a stub street to a larger unplatted parcel to
the north. At the time we ran it through the first time that gentleman did not want the
stub street, but after looking at that area further it's going to need one, so we did add it.
And the Greens are here. I have met with them at the neighborhood meeting. Part of
their pasture is a little isolated piece of this property on the south side of the
Ridenbaugh and they have irrigation and pasture in it and we are going to work with
them to get that conveyed. I left it a separate lot, so that they could continue to use it
and it just doesn't have any -- obviously any purpose for us. Thank you.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Could I get a motion to close the public hearing on PP
12-0167, Fall Creek.
Yearsley: So moved.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for PP 12-016, Fall
Creek. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Discussion? Who would like to go first?
O'Brien: Okay. Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 14 of 41
O'Brien: A lot of work has been put into this for a lot of years I see. Becky, good job.
think overall -- I'm looking at the overall picture. I think it's a very good plan. It seems
like there is still questions to be answered in more detail later on, but overall Ilike -- I
like the direction this is going. It's going to serve a really good purpose for that
particular area. I don't see any -- any red flags, but I still see there is work to be done
and the way it was presented I think they have got a handle on all of those, so I'm for
this thing.
Freeman: Thank you. Anybody else?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Mr. Marshall.
Marshall: I like the location. I like what they are doing with it. It seems to fit well. I do
have some reservations, though, and I'm a new urbanist, quasi-neo traditionalist and
feel like we are almost approving something that may or may not change. What am
approving here? I guess the layout may very well change. I'm not convinced all -- you
know, are we going to change this -- the length of the streets. I'm not -- there is a
rationale for that and these are getting pretty long and I don't know how long those are.
haven't -- I don't have the plans. The street lengths we are not provided. I noticed that
in the staff report. I understand there are some exceptions and that maybe we want to
revisit the code as it is, but that hasn't been done and -- and with the code I have it
doesn't meet code. I do think that it can be done differently without significant additional
cost. I plan my land a little bit differently, but -- yeah, I was not fond of the minor
amenities leaving out, but I am satisfied with staffs suggesting that the amenities, as
elaborated on the other two lots, will meet the minimum and that there will be possibly
some additional, otherwise, I am not fond of the comment minor amenities, but I'm
satisfied with that. But, again, I -- the length of the lots do concern me and I think there
is good rationale for that. A lot of thought went into making that in the first place and we
have not changed it. So, the code hasn't even presented yet, so is this going to have to
sit and wait until the code actually has to pass first? I mean where are we -- or is City
Council going to approve it saying, oh, gosh, we hope everybody approves the new
UDC. I feel like we are a little ahead of the cart here -- got the horse ahead of the cart.
That hasn't been changed and it doesn't meet code. So, those are my thoughts.
Freeman: Thanks, Commissioner Marshall. Just a follow up on that before I take the
other comments. I think it's recognized in the staff report this does not meet the
requirements of the UDC and so staff is making the recommendation that in order for
this to finally be approved by City Council it will meet those requirements, is that not
correct?
Wafters: Yes.
Freeman: So, I'm comfortable with the staff requirement at this point, because we do
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 15 of 41
run into situations often where something that's being represented to us does not yet
meet the requirements of the UDC, but the applicant is required to do so before the
project has started and they often have to work with staff to make those minor
modifications. So, while I understand your sentiment that this isn't quite in the final form
that it will be eventually, most likely, I think we have that covered, so that we are able to
move forward. At least that's my opinion right now. And if you feel to rebut and, then,
we will go onto others.
Marshall: My concern is that there could be some very significant changes in this plat if
they are required to go back and change that. I would make significant changes to it to
be able to adhere to the UDC as it is. So, what is it that I'm actually approving here? I
don't have another option. If we don't have the UDC change what's it going to look like?
It could be -- maybe it's minor changes. I don't know how they are going to change.
May lose some lots or maybe it's very significant, I don't know, and at what point -- what
am I approving here and it feels like I'm hoping this is it and, yeah, please, approve this,
City Council, if this is what you see, but, you know, if you see something different, that's
okay, too. And I'm not willing to go there.
Freeman: Okay. Anybody else? Mr. Yearsley.
Yearsley: I like it. I think it looks well. And I'm satisfied that it meets the requirements
for the -- for the amenities I guess they call it. Realizing that there may be some minor
amenities in the future, but it meets the requirements that we set forth, so -- and
regarding the changes to the development code, I have every faith that the staff will
come up with a good solution and so -- but overall I think it's a good design, good
layout. I think they have done some nice use of parks and pathways and I think it will
turn out pretty nice.
Freeman: Thank you. Commissioner Rohm, did you care to comment? It's not
required.
Rohm: I have some thoughts, but they are not very well organized. I will tell you as far
as the length of the lots -- or blocks I, too, believe that it's projects like this that create
opportunity for the city to come up with changes to our code to meet the needs of what
is being presented and if it weren't for development such as this our codes would
remain just as they are and it's obvious that when you have larger lots and things such
as that, that maybe weren't included in the thought process when the previous code was
written, maybe they should have been and so this, actually, from my perspective, gives
us all an opportunity to improve our code for the future. So, if our applicant and our staff
can work together to come up with a solution that meets the intent of our existing code,
while at the same time meet the needs of the development from the parcel that's before
us, then, I think we are moving in the right direction. End of comment.
Freeman: Thank you. I have got two more things. I do have a question of staff, but
hopefully I will remember to come back to that. Well, maybe I should start with that.
Yeah. Let's start with my question of staff. Given Commissioner Marshall's concerns
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 16 of 41
do you have any reaction to anything you would like to comment on given what he's
expressed?
Wafters: Yes, Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission. A final plat will not be
approved that does not meet UDC standards. If -- the codes in effect at that time, if the
plat does not meet those codes they will need to make revisions to that plat, so that they
do comply with current codes at that time, whatever that is. If the preliminary plat
changes substantially and the director deems it a substantial change, it will need to
come back before the Commission and Council for a modified plat. Hopefully that
addresses your concerns.
Freeman: Thank you. My only other comment is I did note that the applicant is
requesting I guess relief or waivers on certain items and my opinion is that I would tend
to follow the strict recommendations of staff and those can be taken up at the City
Council meeting on each of those specific items. So, if there are no more comments --
although I'm willing to take some more -- could I get a motion?
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to City Council of file number PP 12-016 as presented in the staff
report for the hearing date of January 17th, 2013, with no modifications.
Rohm: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for PP 12-016,
according to the staff report's recommendations. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Hearing: CPAM 12-006 Larkspur West by Sawtooth
Land Surveying, LLC Located 105 E. Edmonds Court Request:
Amendment to the Comprehensive Plan to Change the Future
Land Use Map Designation on 4.51 Acres of Land from Low
Density Residential to Office {1.01 Acres) and Medium Density
Residential (3.50 Acres)
Freeman: Okay. At this time I would like to open the public hearing for -- just a
moment. I'd like to open the public hearing for CPAM 12-006, Larkspur West, beginning
with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The next item on
the agenda is Larkspur West Comprehensive Plan Map Amendment. The subject site
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 17 of 41
is approximately 4.51 acres of land zoned RUT in Ada County and is located on the
southeast corner of South Meridian Road and East Edmond Court. I would mention to
you that this is probably the last five acre piece that was platted in the county back in
the '70s I believe and it's finally coming to fruition as it has developed as we move
forward. Currently the site is -- to the north is zoned L-O and there is a vet clinic to the
north and to the east. You also have residential properties zoned R-8. Those are future
phases of the Larkspur Subdivision as well. To the south you have commercial zoned
property zoned C-G and, then, Observation Point, which is zoned R-4 and, then, to the
west you have Meridian Road, State Highway 69, and a church zoned C-G. You can
see here in the aerial photo that the house -- there is an existing residence on the
property. In the narrative provided by the applicant that is intended to stay if and when
this property develops in the future. So, currently the Comprehensive Plan designates
this property as low density residential. The applicant is here this evening to request a
change to -- for a portion of it to be -- go to office and the majority of it to go to medium
density residential. The applicant intends to develop a small office park and a residential
subdivision consistent to the subdivision to the east, which is the Larkspur South
Subdivision that is currently under construction. With the application the applicant did
submit a concept plan. It shows three office lots that front on Meridian Road here. Here
is Edmond Court along this way, which also provides connectivity to the future lots.
Along the southeast boundary here will be a stub street and, then, the applicant shows
how that street will be extended in the future as well as the concept plan. If you look at
the number of lots that are proposed in the concept plan and you generate the density,
looking at 5.71 acres -- dwelling units to the acre, which is consistent to the subdivision
to the east. I do want to step back and let you know -- go back to the arrow really quick.
Although this subdivision here is zoned R-4, it does sit above this subdivision, so you
won't see a transition between the lot sizes given the topography change, but given
what's going on in these adjacent properties the proposed concept plan is generally
consistent to what's occurring in the area. I'd also let you know that with the future
development application with annexation and subdivision application the applicant will
more than likely request an L-O designation and an R-8 designation, which is consistent
with the adjacent subdivision and office development to the north as well. But right now
I wanted to mention that the Comp Plan does encourage a transitional zoning district,
which that L-O zone does -- if the zone -- L-O zone wasn't there the code would require
a berm and fencing and sound attenuation. So, logically looking at this, seeing what's
going on around the surrounding property certainly makes sense to have an L-O zone
to buffer that future residential from -- from that state highway and also provide a
transition for the commercial development that could occur to the south as well. Staff
did receive written testimony from the applicant. They are in agreement with staffs
recommendation for approval. At this time there are no outstanding issues before you
this evening and I would be happy to answer any questions you have.
Freeman: Thank you, Bill. Any questions of staff? Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, just a couple curiosity questions here, Bill. I don't see any block
numbers, so the northerly block, the second Lot 13 -- yeah -- is double fronted. Is that
intended to be a park or something? Just out of curiosity from a concept plan.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 18 of 41
Parsons: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, if I can go back to the aerial here.
It's not very well delineated, but there is the Kennedy Lateral that comes up through
Observation Point, goes along the southern boundary here and, then, transverses along
the eastern boundary as well. So, at some future point I imagine that will be a common
lot. That ditch will be tiled and some amenity will be provided there in the future.
Marshall: Okay.
Parson: But that will be addressed again when development is proposed.
Marshall: And, then, I'm assuming Lot 20 is a nonbuildable. But, again, it's just concept
plans and it was just curiosity that --
Parsons: That is correct. At this point that's what it depicts.
Marshall: Okay.
Freeman: Any other questions? Would the applicant like to come forward? And,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Jewett: Jim Jewett. 1735 West Franklin, Suite 145, Meridian. I am the developer of the
Larkspur Subdivision and we were approached to do this last little out parcel here to
kind of finish it up and it looked very logical to make it part of the L-O and change it to
the R-8 to be consistent. So, we just -- looking at the time frame for Comp Plan
amendments we wanted to get this in so we met this time frame, so we can move
forward with a summer development. And we concur with all staff comments and will
stand for any questions.
Freeman: Any questions of the applicant? Okay. Thank you.
Jewett: Thank you.
Freeman: I don't have anybody signed up to testify on this item tonight. Is there
anyone here that wishes to do so? No?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: I move we close the public hearing on CPAM 12-006.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on CPAM 12-006,
Larkspur West. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 19 of 41
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Discussion?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: With the vertical it seems to be integrated into -- into the location and seems
very appropriate to me.
Freeman: Thank you. Anybody else?
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I also agree that I think it's a good design. I like the fact that they put the
businesses to the front facing Meridian, so you don't have residents up against C-C and
the state highway. So, I think it looks good.
Freeman: Thanks. Just a point of clarification. This is only a conceptual plan; correct?
We are not actually approving this, but to do modifications in the future.
Parsons: That's correct.
Freeman: This is just showing a way that they are thinking about it that could make
sense.
Parsons: Yes.
Freeman: Okay. Just wanted to make sure that was the case.
Marshall: Nice thing is, Mr. Chair, is that they will already have an opinion if they go
with this plan.
Freeman: They will. Any other comments? In that case could I get a motion?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval of file number CPAM 12-006 as presented in the staff report for
the hearing date of January 17th, 2013, with no modifications.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 20 of 41
Rohm: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CPAM 12-006,
Larkspur West. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Hearing: CPAM 12-005 Cavanaugh by W.H. Moore
Company Located Southeast Corner of S. Meridian Road and
E. Victory Road Request: Amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan to Change the Future Land Use Map Designation on 32 +/-
Acres of Land from Mixed Use Neighborhood with a
Neighborhood Center Overlay to Medium Density Residential;
and from Medium Density Residential to Medium High Density
Residential
Freeman: At this time I would like to open the public hearing for CPAM 12-005,
Cavanaugh, beginning with the staff report.
Wafters: Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission, the next application before
you is a request for an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan future land use map.
This site consists of 39.85 acres of land. It's currently zoned C-N, and TN-C, and is
located on the southeast corner of South Meridian Road and East Victory Road.
Adjacent land uses and zoning. To the north is Victory Road and a fuel facility and
convenience store, landscape nursery, zoned C-G and residential properties in
Observation Point, zoned R-4. To the south is undeveloped property in Cavanaugh
Subdivision, zoned R-8. To the east is undeveloped property in Cavanaugh --
preliminary plat is Cavanaugh, zoned R-8 and TN-R, and to the west is Meridian Road
and State Highway 69 and rural residential property zoned RUT in Ada County. A little
history. This property was originally annexed with the Tenana Valley project and later
included in a preliminary plat for Cavanaugh Subdivision, but has never been final
platted. The site was anticipated to develop with a neighbor market, condominium
units, apartments, vertically integrated residential lots above retail and commercial uses.
Since that time ownership of the property and development plans for the property have
changed. The applicant is currently requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan future land use map to change the land use designation on 16.32 acres of land
from medium density residential to medium high density residential and 10.77 acres of
land for a mixed use neighborhood with a neighborhood center overlay to medium
density residential. This is the existing future land use map you see here on the top and
the proposed changes on the bottom. The medium high density residential designation
allows densities ranging from 8 to 15 dwelling units per acre. The medium density
residential designation allows densities ranging from three to eight dwelling units per
acre. Conceptual development plans have been submitted that shows the eastern
portion of the site developing with single family residences at a density of under four
units per acre and the western portion of the site developing with multi-family apartment
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 21 of 41
uses at approximately 200 to 220 units at a maximum density of 17 dwelling units per
acre, consistent with the proposed map amendment. Written testimony was submitted
by Jonathan Seal in agreement with the staff report. He's the applicant's representative
and staff is recommending approval of the proposed map amendment. Staff will stand
for any questions Commission may have.
Freeman: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions of staff? Would the applicant like to come
forward? Please state your name and address for the record.
Seal: Good evening. Jonathan Seal, W.H. Moore Company, 1940 Bonito, Meridian.
First I'd like to thank staff for their support in the project and the excellent work they
have done. The next thing I'd like to do is just take a few minutes and kind of share
some of our thinking on this application and why we came to you for this. First off, we
recognize that the time and effort that's put into a comprehensive plan and also the
future land use map, so we don't take it lightly when we come in and ask for a
modification to that. But we also have I think, as many of you know, I think a pretty
good idea of what makes commercial development successful, given the fact that over
the last 20 or 30 years Winston Moore has built somewhere -- hundreds of thousands of
square feet of commercial and when I refer to commercial I refer to commercial and
retail. So, we took a very serious look at this and realized that the desire of the city was
for a neighborhood center in the central area as is shown on the future land use map.
And one of the things that we have learned in our time in development -- and there is a
lot of factors that go into successful commercial development, but there is some key
things that if you don't pass those tests you just kind of move on. One of them, of
course, is the traffic volume. The other, obviously, is accessibility, visibility, your
competition within the area, and, then, for retail what is the desirable side of the road to
be on, which is called the going home side. When we looked at this -- if you look in
Meridian Road the traffic count on Meridian Road is 28,000 per day. Victory Road and
Meridian Road. Victory Road is about 6,000. We couldn't get access off Meridian
Road. Our closest access on Victory was 660 feet east of the main intersection. As far
as visibility again from this concept you can see with the amount of traffic you have
where your main center for traffic, your visibility is limited or poor at best. As far as
competition, I think as you all know if you go up and down Meridian Road you have got
a lot of office and retail already there. And, finally, as far as the going home side it
would be the west side of Meridian Road. So, when we started to add up all of those
factors what became very evident to us is this is not going to be a successful project.
It's going to be at best you're going to suffer turnover, vacancy, you're going to have an
eye sore. I know personally I don't like to see buildings that you look through and you
go -- eh, somebody didn't make it too well there. So, we had great concerns and the old
kind of saying, you know, build it and they will come certainly doesn't exist as we all
know. However, when we looked at it from a residential standpoint we recognize that
this could be a very successful location for amulti-family, single family project, that it
would be the type of project that would be of a quality project, I think as some of you
know, particularly with Winston Moore, who is a partner in this project, he builds quality.
That's the only thing we does. That this would attract the professionals and single --
and the families into this community that you want to attract, that's made Meridian a
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 22 of 41
very successful community and one where all people want to live. So, adding those up,
that was the reason that we came to you for this request. We want this to be a
successful project. We don't want to just go blindly and try to build something simply
because it's required. Things have changed, particularly since the first ones there. So,
that's the reason for our request. Unless you have any questions I will sit down and I
will ask you to simply -- that we would appreciate it if you would support our application
and approve it.
Freeman: Thank you. Any questions of the applicant?
O'Brien: Mr. Chair, I have.
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Yes. Mr. Seal?
Seal: Yes.
O'Brien: So, I sat in on a previous application for Cavanaugh when they came up with
the idea for a neighborhood center and the argument at the time was that it would serve
the local locals, if you will. It's not a designation type business area, it was going to
serve the people that was going to live in that to be built area, plus everyone else that
are on Victory Road. Businesses that are there are quite diversified, actually, up and
down Meridian Road between Amity and Overland. So, I don't -- I agree with you to
some extent on that and I'm not going to argue against it, but I will have aconcern --
do have a concern about the density of the -- going up to 216 unit apartments in a very
compressed area and I do have aconcern -- I think there is going to be -- when I read
the staff report that if we had the community center or the neighborhood center there, it
would create more traffic, which I don't believe it would have. I think adding that many
trips from the people that are going to be residing in that apartment complex is going to
create a heck of a lot of people and we are talking, you know, even 200 apartments or
something, you're talking maybe three to four people per day and the number of trips
per day is going to be quite large for what I see as one exit point to Victory Road right
near a commercial area across the road from it on the -- on the north side. I have a
concern with adding even more along that -- that particular thoroughfare and that, of
course, Meridian Road and Victory -- it's pretty busy -- I mean especially at peak times.
It may only generate now at 6,000 per day, but those peak times are where it really
gets, you know, heavy and congested. I have been there at both times, off times and
busy times and it can be cars lined up for, oh, a quarter mile at times and I have seen
that. Anyway, those are my concerns about the density and so I'm not sure if I can
agree upon increasing that from the previous. So, that's my question. I don't know how
you would respond to that.
Seal: I would be glad to. Mr. Chairman, Commissioner O'Brien, a couple things.
certainly don't profess to be a traffic engineer, so I will kind of give you my observation.
One thing I think was very interesting -- in the checklist for the plat one of the things is
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 23 of 41
do we need to -- does ACHD -- will they require a traffic study or do they not and that's
one of the things that we have to document in there. I contacted ACHD on this project
with this density, asked them if we needed a traffic study. They said no. They said that,
you know, what you might want to verify is whether or not you need aright-hand turn
lane off of Victory into this multi-family project. As it turns out we do not need aright-
hand turn lane. So, respectfully I would say -- that would indicate to me -- and, again,
I'm not a traffic engineer -- that they do not deem that there is a volume there to even
require either a traffic or, for that matter, aright-hand turn lane. Now, I may also qualify
-- and this, of course, is getting ahead of it -- there is a couple things here. We are
going to do an off-set of impact fees, a cooperative agreement with ACRD to improve
that road to three lanes. We will do curb, gutter and sidewalk and three -- three lanes.
Originally ACHD was intending to do that as five lanes. If you go back and you look at
the distance of right of way. They have now reduced that to three and they would do
curb and gutter. And I know from having done these projects before they certainly
would not do three lanes now and five years from now bump that up. I think also, again,
respectfully, I think you would find that oftentimes the commercial will generate more
traffic on a more consistent basis than will amulti-family. And, then, finally, I think the
other key thing is, again, regardless of the traffic, a commercial project there will simply
not be successful. And I -- we have talked to major ones. If you look down there you
have got Hawkins-Smith, which -- whether they will do it or not I don't know, but right
now they intend at Amity and Meridian Road a very large shopping center. We couldn't
get a large retailer or retailers to even come in there. We talked to several of them.
None of them are interested. You might get one or two that might -- might talk to you
somewhat, but the reality is they are not going to come in there -- you can't get the
access off of Meridian Road. The access is -- I mean imagine coming up to Amity and
-- or not -- Victory and Meridian, having to go into a project, sit at the light, make aleft-
hand turn, drive down 660 feet, drive into the project, get out of your car, drive back, get
back on Meridian Road. I can tell you without a doubt it would fail. So, I don't know if I
completely answered your questions, but my sense is that this will not generate that
high of volume and, again, I think it will be a quality project. We are -- we are planning
on making this appear very nice. It's not going to be a low end type of thing. So, I hope
that's somewhat given you some --
O'Brien: Yeah. I -- thank you. So, again, like I mentioned, the market there was
supposed to support the local local people. It wasn't a place of destination, so, again,
don't disagree with what you're saying about that, but I -- I do have a concern about
increasing the density and I -- we'd like to know what your thinking is on that, why --
mean the city is charging, what is it, 1,600 dollars per lot I think to -- is that part of the
issue with the development to increase the density to help sway the cost of that?
Seal: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner O'Brien, no, I don't think so. I think what we --
where we are starting first is we want to build a quality project. I think if we wanted to
really maximize money -- and I'm not saying we are altruistic or anything. We are a
developer, we have to make a profit just like anyone else does, but we also wanted to
make a project that I think would appeal to the community and we could have gone up
with four stories, we could have gone with huge projects, where, essentially, if you look
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 24 of 41
at the concept plan we are doing four apartments on each floor in each building. We
are doing multiple buildings. We are doing two and three stories. So, we are really
limiting it. We are going to bring in amenities -- and I know I'm getting a little bit ahead
of where we are with the clubhouse and the gym, a workout facility, things of that
nature, outside facilities for them and stuff. So, no, I think what we are trying to do is
create a quality project, but one -- and we are really between -- we are going to be
actually under -- just slightly under 15 per unit, so we are -- I don't think we are really
pushing extremes where you could very well go up to R-40 in certain cases. So, I don't
-- I think, again, this is my opinion, that we are pushing the envelope where I think we
are going to generate a high volume of density for this project, but at the same time with
the multi-family, which there is a need for it, I think the -- the paradigm for multi-family is
changing. Years ago as we all know -- and get on my soapbox here for aminute -- we
could buy homes we thought -- you could buy a home, wake up in the morning, and
you were richer. I mean you made more money maybe going to sleep at night than you
did at your job some of us. That's changed. A lot of people now view an apartment as
a permanent residence. They prefer to have the flexibility. They prefer the quality, the
services, and they don't want to take care of their place. So, we are seeing a real
change and I think we are providing that, but I think we are providing it with a quality
development and I don't think we are going extremely out there, so --
O'Brien: One further question if you will.
clubhouse, et cetera. Now, previously, the
the -- the home -- I forget the people's name.
So, you have mentioned the building a
Cavanaugh project they were going to use
Seal: Yes.
O'Brien: Up on the hill.
Seal: Yes.
O'Brien: Now, is that what we are talking about as a clubhouse or --
Seal: No. No. We will --
O'Brien: That's separate.
Seal: Yes. We will construct our own -- the home on Cavanaugh, that's another owner.
O'Brien: Okay.
Seal: Actually, it has nine owners technically. But, no, we don't -- we do not own that
land. We will be constructing within this facility our own clubhouse and the amenities
that will go along with it, so --
O'Brien: Thank you. That's all I have.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 25 of 41
Seal: Okay. I hope I answered your question.
O'Brien: You did. Thank you.
Freeman: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Seal: Thank you very much.
Freeman: I don't have anyone signed up to testify on this item, but was there anyone
who wished to offer public testimony this evening? I don't see any hands. So, could
get a motion to close the public hearing on this item?
Marshall: Before we do that, Mr. Chair, if I could ask staff a question.
Freeman: Sure.
Marshall: So, staff, the property to the east of this, that's undeveloped; right?
Wafters: That's correct. Uh-huh. Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission.
Marshall: Do -- given the testimony do we foresee any development going commercial
there as in -- because the idea was a town center -- neighbor center, excuse me. Not a
town center, a neighborhood center. And I have seen them in cases work very very well
and I know there has been a lot of resistance to them, especially from the commercial --
established commercial community. Change is difficult. This is something different. I --
I do believe that getting a large retail in there would be absolutely impossible, but I don't
-- I don't think that's the idea behind a neighborhood center. So, do we still foresee
something going in there eventually or are we just saying, well, we are on the wrong
side of the road, let's not put anything in?
Wafters: Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Marshall,
are you speaking about this area right here?
Marshall: Correct.
Wafters: Okay. Well, there isn't any development there now. There is a preliminary
plat on the property. It has not been final platted and recorded. There are new owners
from what lunderstand -- several owners on this -- the rest of the Cavanaugh
development. Uses allowed in the TN-R zone could go there, as well as single family.
There are various nonresidential uses -- commercial uses that could be allowed in a TN-
Rdistrict.
Marshall: Are we anticipating it going that way? I mean are we anticipating to have --
Wafters: Currently it's platted for residential uses.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 26 of 41
Marshall: Entirely?
Watters: Uh-huh.
Marshall: Okay. Thank you.
Freeman: Could I get a motion to close the public hearing on CPAM 12-005?
Rohm: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on CPAM 12-005,
Cavanaugh. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Discussion? Who would like to start?
Rohm: I would.
Freeman: Commissioner Rohm.
Rohm: I drive out in that area quite a little bit and one of the things that I like about this
concept is that the ingress into this property has been moved quite a ways to the east
off of Meridian Road and I think just because of what's across the street that really
works well together and there is a lot of people that are trying to turn -- they are heading
east and trying to turn into that gas station and rather than have more congestion right
there at the corner, having this development where the ingress into this property is
further to the east than right there on the corner. I think, really, the two work well
together and so
I'm in support of this concept anyway. I'm anxious to see how it pans out down the
road, but conceptually I like the idea based upon the existing commercial development
on the other side of the street.
Freeman: Thank you, Commissioner Rohm. Other comments? Commissioner
Marshall?
Marshall: Mr. Chair. I really do like the concept here. I'm very much for the -- the
apartments there on the corner and the medium density residential. It looks like a great
plan and something just keyed me where Chairman -- or Commissioner Rohm
mentioned the gas station over in the C-G area on the west and possibly a convenience
store and the like. As long as those are within walkable area I would find for this.
Absolutely. And, yes, that's on the going home side of the road. Well, if you're headed
west.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 27 of 41
Freeman: Thank you. Other comments? I would just like to say I do -- I like the plan. I
think that the changes proposed are very reasonable and well within the intent of the
future land use map and also I wanted to thank the applicant. I appreciate your sharing
your thinking with us, so that we can understand how you arrived at the conclusion that
would be a good project and I think you're very convincing in your presentation. If there
are no further comments, could I get a motion?
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Rohm.
Rohm: I'd like to move -- after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony
move to recommend approval of file number CPAM 12-005 as presented in the staff
report for the hearing date of January 17th, 2013, with no modifications.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CPAM 12-005,
Cavanaugh. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very
much.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Hearing: CUP 12-021 Heron Village by Alliance
Management Consultants Located at 2250 N. Meridian Road
Request: Conditional Use Permit for aMulti-Family
Development Consisting of 110 Dwelling Units on 5.5 Acres in
the R-40 and C-G Zoning Districts
Freeman: At this time I'd like to open the public hearing for CUP 12-021, Heron Village,
beginning with the staff report.
Wafters: Mr. Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission, the last application
before you tonight is a conditional use permit request. This site consists of five and a
half acres of land. It's currently zoned R-40 and C-G and is located at 2250 and 2310
North Meridian Road on the southeast corner of north Meridian and Blue Heron Lane.
Adjacent land uses and zoning. To the north is East Blue Heron Lane and townhomes
zoned R-40. To the south single family and multi-family residential, zoned C-C and R-
40. To the east single family rural residential, zoned R-1 and industrial and retail,
Meridian Meat Packers, zoned M-2 in Ada County. And to the west is Meridian Road, a
church, and single family residential uses zoned L-O and R-4. The commercial portion
of this site, zoned C-G, was annexed in 1982. There are other no -- there are no other
applications on these sites. The applicant requests conditional use approval of a multi-
family development consisting of 108 dwelling units in the R-40 and C-G zoning
districts. The proposed structures are three stories in height and consist of four 24-plex
structures and one 12-plex structure, consisting of one, two and three bedroom units.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 28 of 41
Private as well as common open space and site amenities are required to be provided
on the site in accord with UDC standards. Proposed amenities consist of a 1,600
square foot clubhouse, a swimming pool, playground, horseshoe pits, barbecue pits,
fences, a community garden, and a water feature along Meridian Road. Access to the
site will be provided via West Blue Heron Lane. Access via Meridian Road is prohibited.
The proposed site plan does include the provision of additional right of way for the
future widening of Meridian Road. The site plan you see before you here is included in
the staff report. The applicant did revise the site plan, submitted a new revised site plan
this afternoon, from ACHD and from the city's requirements he has taken out the access
to Meridian Road. So, the plan here depicts the requirements in the staff report as far
as access. Building elevations have been submitted for the apartments and garage
structures. They depict hardy plank lap siding, hardy board board and batten siding,
hardy shake siding, and hardy trim fascia and trim in various complimentary neutral
colors, with an asphalt shingle roofing. Conceptual elevations have been submitted for
the carport structures that depict metal posts and beams with hardy trim fascia and trim
and asphalt shingle roofing. Paint colors will be a variety of complimentary neutral
colors to match the proposed apartments and garages. All structures are required to
comply with UDC design standards, as well as the guidelines contained in the Meridian
design manual. Written testimony was submitted from Bob Unger, the applicant's
representative, and in agreement with the staff report. Staff is recommending approval
of the conditional use permit with the conditions in the staff report. Staff will stand for
any questions at this time.
Freeman: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions of staff?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Oh, excuse me. Sonya, could you go back to the new -- there we go. Won't
the fire department be asking for a second access somewhere?
Watters: Chairman Freeman, Commissioner Marshall, Commissioners, the fire
department has approved the single access to Blue Heron Lane because all of the units
will be sprinklered.
Marshall: Oh. Thank you.
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I was a little concerned about the access so close to Meridian Road onto
Blue Heron and I guess has ACHD reviewed that to make sure that they are
comfortable with that access point?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 29 of 41
Wafters: It is my understanding that ACHD has approved the proposed site plan.
Yearsley: Okay.
Wafters: But they will need to approve it if they have not, but it's my understanding this
is approved.
Yearsley: Okay. That's all I have.
Wafters: Preliminarily approved I should say.
Freeman: Any other questions?
O'Brien: I have a question for staff.
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: I'm trying to understand the garage versus carports. The garages are away
from the -- the residential areas and the carports are next to them, so the garages,
assume, are enclosed?
Wafters: That is correct, Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: And is there like one garage per unit?
Wafters: There are -- the UDC requires two covered spaces per unit to be provided for
two and three bedroom units and one covered space per one bedroom unit.
O'Brien: Okay.
Waters: So, the applicant has provided the required amount of covered as well as open
spaces.
O'Brien: So, what do you mean by -- okay. So, what do you mean by dedicated?
Wafters: I'm not real sure what that term means. The applicant can --
O'Brien: Oh. Okay.
Wafters: -- can explain that.
O'Brien: Dedicated -- it says eight spaces for -- I don't know what that means.
Wafters: I believe those are carport spaces, but he can clarify that.
O'Brien: Okay. All right. That's the only thing I have. Thanks.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 30 of 41
Freeman: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward? Please state your name
and address for the record.
Unger: My name is Bob Unger, I'm with ULC Management. Our address is 6104 North
Gary Lane, Boise, Idaho. 83714. And we represent Alliance Management Consultants,
who is the developer of the project. We will just work with this plan. I think that's where
we are at today finally. Currently the property has two existing residential structures
with accesses to Meridian Road and staff said the zoning is R-4 and C-G and we do
have 5.5 acres. The proposal was to develop 108 units -- apartment units complex
consisting of the 24 unit -- four 24 unit buildings and one 12 unit building, which we
provided floor plans and elevations, which you have all seen. In our amenities there we
are proposing a clubhouse, which includes the rental office and equipment storage. We
have numerous amenities throughout the project. They include a covered patio, picnic
area, water amenities still along Meridian Road. Playground area? Picnic tables,
benches, community garden in the southeast corner of the project and a horseshoe pit.
Very briefly I will go over the calculations for the project itself. As far as we -- have 24
one bedroom units. We have 36 two bedroom units. There is an A and a B. So, there
is 36 of the A's, 36 of the B's and we have 12 three bedroom units. The specific
requirements for open space, based upon those units and the sizes -- we need to have
27,000 square feet of usable open space. In the plan we are reflecting 41,870. So, we
have a substantial amount of usable open space. We have considerably more open
space than there is in terms of the usable, but we are not even including that. We are
probably over -- well over an acre of open space. Okay? But the usable open space
was just under an acre. As far as the garages and carports on the one bedroom unit
requirements is that we have one covered parking space and, then, a half space and
that's not required to be covered. So, those eight dedicated spaces are the uncovered,
but still dedicated for use by a resident. Okay? The garages -- we have a large number
of the garages -- I think there is 44 altogether -- that go along Meridian Road. We are
providing -- we have to provide -- dedicate 14 and a half feet of new right of way for the
widening of Meridian Road and, then, our garages are set back a little over -- I think it's
about 25 and a half feet from the new right of way line and all of that is landscaped area
between the new right of way and the back of the garages. Approximately every eight
garage spaces also -- we have an open area -- spacing between the structures just so
we don't have just one huge wall going down through there. And the design of the
garages, the roof lines are -- we are going to be breaking those up, so that you don't
have that continuous run all the way down through there. We have also -- we are
showing garages along the southern -- kind of the southeastern section right in through
here. I hope you're seeing that. And is the -- that's the remainder of the garages. All of
the rest of the dedicated parking is carports, with the exception of those eight dedicated
spaces. We are also providing I believe it's 14 guest parking spaces for the project. Let
me see here. As far as the -- you know, the architect applications for the garages and
the carports, they are all -- it's all proposed to match what we are doing with the -- the
apartment buildings themselves. So, we have a good blend of appearance throughout
the project. As staff has shown, we originally were planning the access to Meridian
Road and in -- when we finally got comments back from ACRD, which was very late last
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 31 of 41
week and I was able to meet with ACRD staff on Tuesday of this week and at that point
in time it was either we appeal their decision to not allow access to Meridian Road or
that we modify the plan and move forward as you see this evening. We do meet all of
the requirements of the fire department. All of our drive aisles have to be a minimum of
26 feet, which they are. We have the dual access here on Blue Heron and the building
code requires that we have --that all the structures be sprinklered -- interior sprinkling.
So, with that, then, the fire department doesn't require the secondary access. As far as
utilities, all the utilities are available to the site. In fact, they are stubbed to the site,
sewer and water. We will be installing pressurized irrigation -- a pump station for the
project for all of the landscaping that's going to be in there. Along the southern border
of the project there is a small irrigation ditch that runs down to Meridian Road. It also
supplies water to the resident who is directly south and next to Meridian Road, the south
side of the project. In our neighborhood meeting we met with her and other residents in
the area and we discussed her irrigation issues there and we are going to work with her
to -- she occasionally has a problem with some flooding over there, because of people
opening gates down here in the southeastern corner of the property. So, we will be
working with her to -- to prevent that from happening in the future. Oh, let's see.
Drainage for the site. All drainage will be maintained on site within seepage beds that
would be under the parking areas and drive aisles. As far as ownership and
maintenance buildings on the site, we will be providing staff with an operation and --
operational and maintenance manual which will provide for the maintenance of the
entire project, including buildings. And that will be recorded for future reference if the
project is sold somewhere down the road or whatever the case. And at this point I want
to really tell you how much I appreciated stafFs cooperation and working with me on
this. We have gone through -- poor Sonya. We have gone through numerous designs
on this project over the past month, particularly this past week and she's been extremely
helpful and I just want to point that out and we concur with the staff report and the
recommendations of conditions of approval, so at this point I will stand for any questions
and appreciate your time this evening and would ask your approval.
Freeman: Thank you. Questions of the applicant?
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I do have one.
Freeman: Mr. Marshall.
Marshall: The ditch on the south side, is it your intention to the that?
Unger: Mr. Marshall, yes, sir, that is our intention to the it. It's a very small ditch. I think
it's not going to -- it will only take maybe an eight inch pipe to -- to carry the water. And
that will certainly help the lady who lives to the south.
Marshall: Thank you.
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 32 of 41
O'Brien: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have several questions. The first one is why would
you put garages so far away from residences and not -- and reverse the carports versus
the garages? It just seems like it should be the opposite. You got the carports next to
the residences and the garages away from it, so I don't know what the -- I don't know.
Just a thought.
Unger: Commissioner O'Brien, our thought -- our thought with the garages being on the
-- the west side there like that is actually to provide more of a buffer from -- from the --
from the people on Meridian Road -- across Meridian Road looking straight in and
seeing the carports and things like that. With the garages and the landscape that we
are going to put in along the garages, we are going to put in at least a three foot berm,
so the backside of those garages are going to have a concrete wall that will be three to
four feet in height, okay? And landscaped and shrubs all along the backside of the
garages. So, consequently, you're only going to see approximately four feet of the
actual garage wall itself and, then, you will have the roof lines. So, actually, the garages
kind of -- kind of provide somewhat of a visual buffer between the project and also the
residents that will be living here, if we put the garages right next to the apartments, then,
the carports, which would be totally visible to Meridian Road, but the residents would
not be able to look down and check to see if their car is okay. If you understand what
I'm saying there. Some of it's security, our position for them.
O'Brien: Okay. All right. Yeah, that's just a -- thank you for that, but one other dumb
question. 1 haven't heard of this -- this type of siding before. What is hardy shake or
hardy board? I haven't heard that expression.
Unger: Okay. Commissioner O'Brien, it's pretty much all of the siding and everything
that is going on homes today is a hardy board. You can have a hardy board lap siding
-- I mean it is a -- it's compressed chip board --
O'Brien: Okay.
Unger: -- okay? With -- with some sort of a textured finish on it. I mean there is a lap
siding, there is a -- there is a cottage lap, there is a bat and a board and things like that,
but that's what's going on homes today with -- you know, the guarantees on these -- or
life expectancy is very very good.
O'Brien: It's not composite then?
Unger: No. Not the composite, no.
Freeman: It's actually a cementitious material.
O'Brien: All right. Okay.
Freeman: Flame resistant.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 33 of 41
O'Brien: That's all I have. Thanks.
Freeman: I have an observation and a question that goes along with that. I do
understand the logic of keeping garages away from the residents, so there is a sense of
openness, even safety. I get that. The one thing that sticks in my mind about this is
those garages do create kind of a disappointing facade to Meridian Road, whereas your
building is very nice, but I understand why you have positioned them there. My
question is this: You did have an access coming kind of off Meridian Road right in the
middle of your development, which kind of nicely centered on that alleyway between
your two main buildings fronting on the street, so when you remove that it seems to me
that would have been an excellent opportunity to leave the openness, maybe do
something with landscape, kind of present a better presentation to the street, but what
you choose to do was fill it in with more garages, which I may be mistaken, it doesn't
seem like that was necessary, because you already had the counts before and I just
wondered if you would consider perhaps opening that back up, leaving the garages
where they were, and doing something else with that to kind of break up the long facade
of garages and give yourself more of a face, some transparency, a visual access to the
street, which would make your presentation to Meridian Road stronger I would think.
You're free to comment on that, reasons why you didn't do that or if you would consider
it.
Unger: Mr. Chairman, can we go back to the new plan? This -- yes, we did -- I did
bring you a couple of additional spaces to make up for what we lost over here at the
new entrance. Okay? But we are still maintaining an open space there -- I believe it's
approximately 25 feet in width with sidewalk going out to it and, then, the water
amenities on either side of the sidewalk. Certainly Icould -- because I ended up putting
in more spacing between the garage, more open space strips between the garages than
I had originally. Icould come back and eliminate, you know, ones on either side and
shift everything down another ten feet, which would give you approximately 35 feet, in
that area. And certainly I have no problem doing that at all. I mean --
Freeman: We don't function as a design review board up here, but Ijust -- if you would
take it under advisement, we are just approving the CUP, but if it's something that you
would be willing to consider and work out with staff, I think there is some room for
improvement there and I'm on the record as saying so and that's all I really wanted to
accomplish. It sounds like it might be something you would consider.
Unger: And thank you very much. I appreciate that. And as Sonya can tell you, I'm
open -- wide open to working and making this a better plan, so 1 will take those under
consideration.
Freeman: Thank you. Any other questions of the applicant? All right. I do have a
couple of people -- thank you very much.
Unger: Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 34 of 41
Freeman: I have got a couple of people signed up to offer public testimony. When I call
your name indicate to me whether you did want to testify or not. Bob Unger.
Unger: That's me.
Freeman: Oh. Yes, it is you. You know what, Bob, this late at night I tend to do that.
So, you're not the first victim of my stupidity there. Cynthia Sisco? Did you wish to
testify? Okay. Come on forward. And when you get to the microphone please state
your name and address for the record.
Sisco: My name is Cynthia Sisco. 2210 North Meridian Road. I'm just to the south of
that little corner -- that little corner lot right there. Sorry. Right there. And I just have
three concerns. A couple more after he -- after I saw this. I have never seen this plan.
But three concerns. I would like to thank you guys all for being here and do this job,
too. Working late like this, instead of being home. And I brought pictures. I don't know
how to work this, but I brought pictures if that would help show what I'm going to be
talking about.
Freeman: Could we project those?
Sisco: The three things I'm concerned about is privacy to the residential home right
there. And irrigation and maintenance of the ditch water flowing through here and all
three just as important and I will cover them one at a time. When I purchased the home
in 1994 -- I raised my family there. Dorado -- I think his name was Dorado was the
developer to the -- just to the west of my property and he is in the process of developing
a three story complex and it was -- it was fine. He worked with you folks also and I don't
know if it was the city planning and zoning that required it or if it was his idea, but he
was kind enough to consider our project when he was building his apartments and I was
shown -- I have got photos there of the first page, page B I think it was, whatever order
gave it to you in -- that shows -- you can't see our home from his apartments. And they
are three stories also and that was our concern. And you can't -- you can't hardly see
our home because he put the garage -- if the pictures are able to be seen he put a
garage --
Freeman: Is it looking like our technology is going to catch up with us? We can pause
for a second here while we see if we can that arranged. All right.
Sisco: So, our home is this -- these pictures were taken from the James Court
Apartments and our home is behind those bushes. Oh. Okay. Thank you. Behind
those bushes. That's our backyard.
Freeman: Thank you, Caleb.
Sisco: Maybe not. This -- our home is behind there. Okay. The picture of the car. Our
home is behind that garage. The picture of the bushes, our home is behind there and
behind this garage in the bottom right and he also -- I don't know if the city required it or
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 35 of 41
if he was kind enough to plant tall trees where the three story windows could see those
-- the tall trees pictured. So, we still were able to keep our privacy and there is a little
one spot and, then, they put up a fence, which wasn't really a privacy fence, if you --
because aprivacy fence you can't see through, but it was a great help and because we
had -- on the top picture there we had those tall bushes anyways, you can't really see
into our yard. There is only one spot where kids or somebody will come and throw trash
over, but it's not a big problem. But we don't have headlights shining into our property
or anything because of the way it was developed. So, that's -- when I see the picture of
this Heron Apartments proposal I'm concerned about headlights and I'm also concerned
about my -- on the next picture -- so, our --didn't quite draw him, but the bedroom is on
the north side of our house, well, we have windows there and where you can see his
driveway -- the driveway -- one of the driveways, our first one closest to Meridian Road,
they will be shining lights in our windows. Also I'm concerned about people looking
through our fence into our bedroom windows. And so I would just request that --
otherwise, Idon't have any problems with that. I would just request that -- I can't see in
the pictures to see what's along the south side of this property in the latest proposal, but
if they would put up a privacy fence or plant six foot bushes, that would be great with
me. Along -- along our property line there. We have a fence up, but it's -- we have a
fence up, but it's not a privacy fence and you seek through the -- that's looking through
the fence at the bedroom windows and in the back and you can't see this picture real
clear, but my daughter is in the bedroom. And you can see all that, too. So, that's my
concern with so many people. When it's just a normal neighborhood house you know if
somebody's looking through your window or if somebody is throwing trash over, but
when it's an apartment you have no idea. So, that's my only concern with that. And,
then, onto the ditch.
Freeman: We have got a couple more minutes that I'm giving you because of our
technical difficulties.
Sisco: Okay. Thanks. So, to get back to the back all the way on the east, starts there.
It's not on your picture, but it's on your -- his picture. It starts there where there is a
community garden, runs all along there, turns and, then, goes straight and we routed
onto -- I rerouted onto my property at the east side of my property and, then, it runs
straight down Meridian Road. The Meridian Road part is piped on my property and he
said they would probably -- I already talked to them and they said they probably would
the it, which would be great and that would take care of the maintenance access
problem, because I have hired -- when no one was living on that property I have hired
tractors to go down there and maintain the weeds, because they grow this high all along
the length, so I think they are going to take care of that. But I do -- I am concerned
about the apartment residents having access to the headgate, because at the -- at the
beginning of it, on the far east and also where it turns into my property, and also right at
Meridian Road there is -- there is three different places where there are gates that I
control when I water my property and if anyone else moves the gate -- right now it's just
metal gates that I hand move and nobody lives there and when other people were also
using it they know, so we worked together. But if anybody lifts that gate without my
knowing -- and it has happened before right when the apartments were built to the east
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 36 of 41
of me, flooded my basement and to have it happen -- if they open it, I don't know about
it, so I don't know whether to watch it or close it and I had to replace the furnace
because of that. And so we talked -- I have talked to Mr. Unger about this and he
suggested putting -- locking the gate there, so other people wouldn't be able to open it,
because those three persons, if you close one of them it's going to flow onto my
property without me knowing it. If you open another one it's going to do the same thing.
So, it's been a huge concern for me with the apartments and the community garden,
that wasn't discussed before, but it sounds like other people having access to the water
and so that would mean I'm risking my property getting flooded, because if it's open and
not watched it will flood right onto my property, fill up the parking lot and, then, under my
house. So, those are my only concerns, that that's taken care of and if you -- also if you
tiled the ditch that it's wide enough for water to flow.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you very much. It sounds like you have had some
conversations with Mr. Unger.
Sisco: We just met the one time.
Freeman: And I would encourage those to continue.
Sisco: Yeah.
Freeman: And he will have a chance to come forward and address your concerns here
at the public hearing, so --
Sisco: Okay.
Freeman: -- we will give him that opportunity. Thank you. Would the applicant like to
come forward. Unless there is anybody -- any other folks here that wish to testify.
didn't have anybody else on the list. Okay. Mr. Applicant then.
Unger: Mr. Chair, Bob Unger again. Yeah. During our neighborhood meeting Ms.
Sisco and I spent a good bit of time discussing particularly the irrigation issue and what
-- what the plan that we came up with was to the all the way down along there and when
it comes to where it diverts to her property we will actually put a valve in there with a
lock and she will have the key and that way she has total control over it and nobody
else can open it. As far as the access to any of the water -- irrigation water on this
property, particularly down at the main gate in the southeast corner where the
community garden is, that's -- that's where we are going to be -- that's where we will
have our pump station, so any water that is being used on the site will be through a
pressurized system and no one will have access to that. As far as water for the
community garden, we will have -- we will have a riser with a spigot for them to use.
Certainly we want to make sure that we protect Ms. Sisco so she doesn't have the
problem that she had before. As far as her privacy -- and I didn't review this with you
earlier -- we are proposing a six foot vinyl privacy fence around the perimeter of the
project, excluding where the main roads are of course. And Idon't -- I don't have any
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 37 of 41
problem planting some additional trees and shrubs along her boundary there to give her
a little more privacy. The closest building to her property line is at least 60 feet. So,
think if we do some additional -- put in some additional trees and additional landscaping
and the privacy fence, I think we can address her issues there. Certainly I would be
more than glad to work with her in the future on it. And I think that's about it.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you.
Unger: Any other questions?
Yearsley: One quick question.
Freeman: A question.
Yearsley: Looking back on this on that -- the house, you have got a trash enclosure
pretty close to her side of the property. We may want to consider moving that
someplace a little farther away from her property if possible.
Unger: Yes, Mr. Yearsley. Yes, we could -- whoever just pointed. Was that you? I can
move it right over there. Because that's -- that's across from James Court. So, I can
certainly move that trash enclosure up there. I don't have a problem with that. I did
have parking there once upon a time and in our revisions the parking went away. So,
that would be an excellent place for it.
Yearsley: Yeah. I think so.
Freeman: Good observation.
Marshall: You would actually have to face it to the west, would you, and have it cut in
there for the truck to be able to pull in, grab it, and dump and go out, but --
Unger: That's correct.
Freeman: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Unger: Thank you very much.
Freeman: Could I get a motion to close the public hearing on CUP 12-021, Heron
Village.
O'Brien: So moved.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on CUP 12-021,
Heron Village. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 38 of 41
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Discussion? Beginning with -- who would like to start?
Marshall: Mr. Chair.
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: I like the project. I like that they have been working with the neighbors. I am
pretty impressed. I really did like Chairman Freeman's suggestion of opening -- you
know, breaking that up, because I -- I like the fact there is going to be a three foot berm
and the landscaping out there, but -- and I do like the articulation on the back of the
garages, but they are pretty long and it's by leaving a much larger opening in there it will
help break that up quite a bit. I'd almost -- for a little bit more architecturally on the back
side to be able to break up, rather than just having the lap siding all down one side or
something, but -- other than that I'm all for it. I like it.
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien?
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. I still have concerns about the garages over carports. You
can see the carports from the second and third level, but at the first level I don't because
of -- it's blocked. But you can always put a wall behind carports facing the street, but,
anyway, that's the location of the garages out on the southeast side is -- it seems like
there is more there than would support that smaller builder, so people would have to
walk a long ways to get to their car -- to the garages that are enclosed. But I don't have
any other issues with it. I was in in the problem -- the issues I have in my mind about
location of garages versus carports. That's all.
Freeman: Okay. Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I think it looks good. I think he is being very -- trying to be very gracious or
amenable to the neighbors and trying to help out there as well as possible and I
appreciate that. So, I think it's a good design and a good layout.
Freeman: Commissioner Rohm?
Rohm: I don't have anything really to add.
Freeman: I don't either. So, could I get a motion?
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony,
move to approve file number CUP 12-021 as presented in the staff report for the
hearing date of January 17th, 2013, with no modifications.
Rohm: Second.
Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 39 of 41
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CUP 12-021,
Heron Village. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thanks.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Other Items
A. Election of New Officers 2013 -Chair and Vice-Chair
Freeman: We are not quite complete yet. We do have one other item on the agenda
and before we get to that actually I wanted to make sure everybody was aware that
officially Commissioner O'Brien finishes up his term on the Commission as of today.
We don't have anybody yet to fill his chair and he has graciously volunteered to
continue in the chair until we do have somebody to fill it, but I just wanted to publicly
thank you, Commissioner O'Brien, for your many years of service here.
O'Brien: Thank you.
Freeman: You will be missed and we will talk about a little sending away deal for
perhaps the next time we get together and we will do that offline, not in public. With that
I think we can move onto the election of new officers, which I'm really looking forward to.
I have been serving here in the chair for two years and it's time to get some fresh blood
in here. So, I will leave it to the rest of you to make nominations and discuss how we
want to do that.
Yearsley: Well, I guess for me personally, before we do the nominations, I just want to
thank you for your services, Chairman. You have done a very good job and lead as a
great example to all of us for the last couple of years.
Freeman: Thank you.
O'Brien: I second that.
Freeman: We won't take a motion, but I appreciate that. So, who would like to open
this up?
Marshall: Well, I personally would think that the natural progression would be from the
vice-chair to chair.
Yearsley: That would be fine.
Rohm: Well, I move that we appoint Commissioner Yearsley as our new chairman for
next year.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 40 of 41
Freeman: Okay. So, I have a couple of -- okay. I think what we do is take motions. Is
that right? So --
Rohm: I move that we appoint Commissioner Yearsley as our new chairman for 2013.
Marshall: I will second that.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second. Before we continue I would like to point out
that we should do this separately, so we will elect a chairman and, then, avice-
chairman once we get that done. I forgot to point that out. So, I have a motion and a
second to elect commissioner Yearsley to the chair for the next term, however long that
may be. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Congratulations,
Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Nominations for vice-chair.
Rohm: I nominate Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: t think this -- typically you want to get somebody that's going to be prepared
to take that chair and this was going to be my sixth year as well. I'm exactly a year
behind Tom.
Rohm: Because I'm -- this is my sixth year. This is my sixth year, too.
Marshall: I guess so. I started January 2007.
Rohm: That's all right. I still nominate --
Marshall: For votes I guess it's down to two guys that are short-timers I guess.
Freeman: I didn't realize you were both short-timers. I'm not aware of any requirement
or intent the vice-chair actually fill the chair the next year, so the fact that you're serving
your last term, I don't see that as any issue at all.
Yearsley: I will second that motion, by the way.
Freeman: Okay. So, I have a motion and a second that Commissioner Marshall would
fill the vice-chair position for the upcoming term, however long that may be. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
January 17, 2013
Page 41 of 41
Freeman: We have an new vice-chair and a chair. I get to take a seat over there. I'm
very happy with that.
Yearsley: I was actually glad that Commissioner Rohm made a clarification, because
he talked about me serving next year, so I was thinking I'd still have another year to --
Rohm: Oh.
Freeman: You have got a lot of time on your term. If you guys want to leave, since
people do, I need one more motion.
Rohm: I move we adjourn.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: We are adjourned. Thank you very much.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:05 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
APPROVED
- C IRM
ATTEST:
JAYCEE HOLMAN, CITY CLERK ~
ai-7i13
DATE APPROVED
O~P.t~,n R ilGUS\
I .,QQ,,
O~ r'4
~G
,~ City of . ~ ~s
~~, s~ ,~~
Byre' °r ii ~ Tae-5°~r.
Meridian Planning Zoning Commission Meeting
DATE: January 17, 2013 ITEM NUMBER: 3A
PROJECT NUMBER:
ITEM TITLE:
Approve Minutes of December 20, 2012 PZ Minutes
MEETING NOTES
,N~~Ued as ~2c~
7D/ JG~'1 S-~
CLERKS OFFICE FINAL ACTION
DATE: E-MAILED TO
STAFF SENT TO
AGENCY SENT TO
APPLICANT NOTES INITIALS
Meridian Planning Zoning Commission Meeting
DATE: January 17, 2013 ITEM NUMBER: 4A
PROJECT NUMBER: PP 12-016
ITEM TITLE: Fall Creek Subdivision
Continued Public Hearing from 12/20: Preliminary Plat approval consisting of 296 building
lots and 32 common/other lots on 110.54 acres of land in an R-8 zoning district by
Coleman Homes, LLC -south of W. Overland Road, east side of S. Linder Road
MEETING NOTES
,~~~ ~ ~~
5 ~ ~ ~`2 S o
CLERKS OFFICE FINAL ACTION
DATE: E-MAILED TO
STAFF SENT TO
AGENCY SENT TO
APPLICANT NOTES INITIALS
Meridian Planning Zoning Commission Meeting
DATE: January 17, 2013 ITEM NUMBER: 4B
PROJECT NUMBER: CPAM 12-006
ITEM TITLE: Larkspur West
Public Hearing: Amendment to the comprehensive plan to change the future land use
map designation on 4.51 acres of land from low density residential to office (1.01 acres)
and Medium density residential (3.50 acres) by Sawtooth Land Surveying, LLC - 105 E.
Edmonds Court
MEETING NOTES
I~.~ ~w ~~e- -~ ~( ~
~'e-f ~' cj e -~lo Z~ ~ 9I i 3
~~~~
so
CLERKS OFFICE F/NAL ACTION
DATE: E-MAILED TO
STAFF SENT TO
AGENCY SENT TO
APPLICANT NOTES INITIAL8
Meridian Planning Zoning Commission Meeting
DATE: January 17, 2013 ITEM NUMBER: 4C
PROJECT NUMBER: CPAM 12-005
ITEM TITLE: Cavanaugh
Public Hearing: Amendment to the Comprehensive plan to change the future land use
map designation on 32 +/- acres of land from mixed use neighborhood with a
neighborhood center to overlay to medium density residential; and from medium density
residential to Medium high density residential by W.H. Moore Company =SEC of S.
Meridian Rd and E. Victory Rd
MEETING NOTES
Se-f-`~r ~~C. 2IIq/~3 S-b
CLERKS OFFICE FINAL ACTION
DATE: E-MAILED TO
STAFF SENT TO
AGENCY SENT TO
APPLICANT NOTES INITIALS
Meridian Planning Zoning Commission Meeting
DATE: January 17, 2013 ITEM NUMBER: 4D
PROJECT NUMBER: CUP 12-021
ITEM TITLE: Heron Village
Public Hearing: Conditional Use Permit for amulti-family development consisting of 110
dwelling units on 5.5 acres in the R-40 zoning districts by Alliance Management
Consultants - 2250 N. Meridian Road
MEETING NOTES
Sy~-~ ~o
CLERKS OFFICE FINAL ACTION
DATE: E-MAILED TO
STAFF SENT TO
AGENCY SENT TO
APPLICANT NOTES INITIALS
Meridian Planning Zoning Commission Meeting
DATE: January 17, 203 ITEM NUMBER: 5A
PROJECT NUMBER:
ITEM TITLE:
Election of New Officers for 2013 -Chair and Vice Chair
MEETING NOTES
(~aJr~ - 5ftvrn y~'~slcc~ mQ~~n ~
~h~r- J~ ,Ua~sha,K rn~./SY y o
V~c~-
%~~~
CLERKS OFFICE FINAL ACTION
DATE: E-MAILED TO
STAFF SENT TO
AGENCY SENT TO
APPLICANT NOTES INITIALS