2012 12-06Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting December 6, 2012
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of December 6, 2012, was
called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Scott Freeman.
Members Present: Chairman Scott Freeman, Commissioner Joe Marshall,
Commissioner Steven Yearsley, Commissioner Michael Rohm and Commissioner Tom
O'Brien.
Others Present: Machelle Hill, Ted Baird, Pete Friedman, Sonya Wafters, Bill Parsons,
Terri Ricks, Kyle Radek, Bruce Freckleton, Warren Steward and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance:
Roll-call
X Steven Yearsley X Tom O'Brien
X Scott Freeman X Joe Marshall
X Michael Rohm -Chairman
Freeman: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I'd like to call to order the
regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for this
date of December 6, 2012, and let's begin with roll call
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda
Freeman: Thank you, Machelle. First item is the adoption of the agenda and I do have
one change to the agenda this evening. Item 4-I, I believe it is, the sign code text
amendment, ZOA 12-003, will be opened for the sole purpose of continuing it to the
next regularly scheduled meeting on December 20th. Other than that, I need a motion
to adopt the agenda as amended.
Rohm: So moved.
Marshall: Second.
Rohm: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda Approved
A. Approve Minutes of November 15, 2012 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 2 of 49
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
12-015 Meridian High School Addition by Joint School District
No. 2 Located at 1900 W. Pine Avenue Request: Conditional
Use Permit Approval to Construct a New 40,000 Square Foot
Addition to Meridian High School
Freeman: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. We have two items on the
Consent Agenda this evening. First item is the approval of the minutes of the
November 15th, 2012, Planning and Zoning Commission meeting and the second item
is the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for approval of CUP 12-015, Meridian
High School addition. Could I get a motion to accept the Consent Agenda?
Rohm: So moved.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Action Items
I. Public Hearing: ZOA 12-003 Sign Code Text Amendment by
City of Meridian Community Development Planning Division
Request: Amend Sections of the City's Current Standards for
Signs
Freeman: Okay. At this time I would like to open Item 4-I, the public hearing for ZOA
12-003, sign code text amendment by the City of Meridian, for the sole purpose of
continuing it to the next regularly scheduled meeting on December 20th. Do I need a
motion to do that or do I just need -- we need a motion. Somebody give me one.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move that we continue ZOA 12-003 to the next regularly
scheduled Planning and Zoning Commission meeting of 12/20/12.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to continue Item ZOA 12-003, sign code text
amendment, to the next regularly scheduled meeting on December 20th, 2012. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carried. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Okay. Before I open the first item -- our Action Items tonight, I just want to
explain to everybody, since we have a full audience it seems, how the process goes.
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December 6, 2012
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We will open the public hearing for each item and we will begin with the staff report and
they will present to us the application and their findings and, then, we will give anybody
that wishes to offer public testimony a chance to testify. If you are here to testify on an
item you can have up to three minutes to come forward and -- and give us your opinion.
If you are here as a spokesperson for several people you have up to ten minutes and
when we get to a couple of these items I will actually ask if there is somebody that
wishes to be representative for a group of people and have them speak first. After we
hear -- I'm sorry. I skipped a step. The applicant is going to come forward after the staff
report and he is given 15 minutes to present his application, then, we will take the public
testimony. You will be given three minutes as an individual or ten minutes if you're a
spokesperson for a group. After which time the applicant, then, will have another ten
minute opportunity to come forth and respond to anything that he might wish to respond
to. At that time we will close the public testimony. The Commissioners will deliberate
and, hopefully, we will be able to come up with a recommendation to City Council on
each one of those items.
A. Continued Public Hearing from November 15, 2012: Request
for a Street Name Change from N. Englewood Way to A new
Name to be Decided Upon by Affected Residents OR the
Spelling Changed to Inglewood by The City of Meridian
Community Development Department .Denied
B. Continued Public Hearing from November 15, 2012: Request
for a Street Name Change from N. Englewood Place to a New
Name to be Decided Upon by Affected Residents OR the
Spelling Changed to Inglewood by the City of Meridian
Community Development Department
Freeman: So, the first item on the agenda is the continued public hearing from
November 15th, 2012, request for a new street name change from North Englewood
Way to a new name and also Item B is a continued public hearing from November 15th,
2012, request for a street name change from North Englewood Place to a new name.
And let's begin with the staff report.
Ricks: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The Ada County Street
Name Committee has been notified by the 911 call center of their ongoing concern
regarding potential emergency response delays for the sound alike street names of
North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place. As you can see by the vicinity map
overhead, this is located just south of Ustick Road and west of Ten Mile Road.
Meridian's North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place are both spelled with an
E, while South Inglewood Road in Boise is spelled with an I. Complicating the dispatch
situation further is the existence of four blocks of duplicate address ranges in both cities.
Due to confusion surrounding the above street names, a 22 minute delay in emergency
response services was reported for a domestic violence call needed in Boise, but routed
to Meridian. After internal reviews by the call center, the present dispatching policies
and the implementation of new policies designed to lessen the confusion with sound
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alike or duplicate street names, the concern remains for potential delays in response
time when critical emergency services are needed in these areas. After consideration
of other proposals and allowing that in-house procedural changes have been made
within the call center, it is still the recommendation of the Ada County Street Name
Committee that the Englewood street names be changed due to life and safety issues.
The recommended name changes for these streets are as follows: North Englewood
Place to North Woodcrest Place. North Englewood Way to North Woodcrest Way. The
committee's recommendation to change the Meridian street name of North Englewood
Place and North Englewood Way, as opposed to changing the Boise street name of
South Inglewood Road comes after a review of the following factors: South Inglewood
Road in Boise was first dedicated in 1955 with the Country Club Manor Subdivision and
extended in 1956 when Country Club Manor No. 2 was platted. Thirty-nine homes are
addressed along this street. North Englewood in Meridian was first dedicated in 1996
with the Englewood Creek Estates Subdivision and extended in 1998 when Englewood
Creek Estates No. 2 was platted. An additional section was dedicated in 1998 when the
Cherry Lake -- excuse me -- the Lake at Cherry Lane Number No. 7 Subdivision was
recorded. Forty homes are addressed along these streets. Each have a similar number
of homes affected and taking into consideration the existence of Boise's Inglewood for
40 years prior to the dedication of Meridian's Englewood streets, the committee
recommends the Meridian street names be changed. Prior to the originally scheduled
public hearing date of October 18th of this year a neighborhood meeting was held at
City Hall for all residents affected by the proposed street name change. The purpose of
the meeting was to provide a less formal atmosphere for the residents to discuss their
concerns, as well as the opportunity to provide input for the proposed new street name.
A representative from the 911 call center was on hand to discuss dispatch limitations
and to raise awareness of the potential for future emergency response delays along
these streets. Twelve residents were in attendance. All in attendance were opposed to
the potential street name change and no recommendation for alternate street names
were received. A petition of opposition was signed by residents of Englewood and
subsequently submitted to staff. An additional letter was sent by Mike Munkres, the
Fairway HOA president, one of two HOAs in that area, along with the request that it be
distributed to the Commission. These documents have been included in your packets.
In ongoing correspondence and discussion between staff and representatives of
Englewood, the committee sent a list of potential new names for the residents review
and all were opposed. The name Fairway was initially submitted by the residents, but
opposed by the committee due to an existing Fairway located within the county. In our
last correspondence the name Woodcrest was suggested by a resident and approved
by the committee. Following tonight -- following me tonight we have with us the MSAG
coordinator with the Emergency Communications Bureau to give us the perspective of
the 911 call center when dealing with sound alike street names. This concludes my
presentation and I will stand for any questions.
Freeman: Thank you. Are there any questions of staff at this time? I assume you will
be coming up to the microphone, so, please, state your name and address in the
microphone when you get there. Thanks. By the way, I understand we have audio
recordings this evening. A CD. I don't know what the sound quality is going to be, so
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would appreciate it if everybody was really quiet, just in case it's pretty faint, I would like
everybody to have a chance to hear it.
Britz: Hi here, my name is Glenda Britz. I'm the MSAG coordinator with the Ada
County Sheriffs Department. I work with the Emergency Communications Bureau
representing the dispatch center. I have worked in the dispatch center for over 26 years
now as a dispatcher and also working with the dispatch personnel and I can tell you that
I have taken several calls from hysterical callers who sometimes are very difficult to
understand and sometimes they are very difficult to deal with. In several cases the
caller is pretty difficult to understand, because of their accents, possibly because of
screaming, crying, or they may be on a cell phone standing outside and the wind's
blowing really hard and it's going through their cell phone. Sometimes it's impossible or
nearly impossible to confirm a caller's address. We had an incident that happened in
November of 2011 that dealt with and brought the Englewood to our attention. A 911
call came into the dispatch center from a woman who indicated that her daughter and
husband were fighting. The mother was not on location with the daughter. She gave
the dispatcher the address on Englewood. The dispatcher taking the call spelled
Inglewood with an E, which routed the call when it was entered to Meridian, when, in
fact, the actual location it was occurring at was Inglewood in Boise. The delayed
response to getting to the actual location of the incident was 22 minutes. Fortunately
there was no one injured and there was no arrest that was made with this incident. I
would like to give just a brief explanation of how our CAD system or computer -- excuse
me -- computer aided dispatch works to give you an idea in how we verify addresses.
In order to verify an address our CAD system refers to a database of standardized
locations, including street address ranges and names, such as Englewood 2700 block,
or commonplace names, such as St. Alphonsus, and intersections, Fairview-Eagle.
This insures that the locations are validated within a valid block number range. CAD
also references an alias file to allow for substitute names for streets. These predefined
alias names generally serve three purposes. Abbreviated entry, frequently used names,
for example of that is Fairview, so that the dispatcher doesn't have to type out Fairview
all the way, they can use F-R-V as an abbreviation and that's usually done for long
street names. Streets that are frequently misspelled and might have difficulty matching
with real GEO file database. A street name that changes. For example, you have
Highway 16, which is the official state highway name, but at the same time you have
Emmett Highway, which is the Ada County name. We can alias Highway 16, so if I type
in an address on Highway 16 it would verify to Emmett. The street naming match
process examines any alias names after it searches for real street names. Therefore, if
the hundred block we are looking for existence in the real street name file, that is the
address the system picks. Herein lies the problem, because Englewood with an E in
Meridian and Inglewood with an I in Boise, both exist in the center line database in the
real street file. If a dispatcher types in Englewood with an E the system will verify it to
Englewood in Meridian. The only way the street name alias file works is when there is
no overlapping address hundred blocks. It will always search for the real street name
first and our data that we receive is received from the Ada County assessor centerline
database and I would like to note that with Inglewood and Englewood, Boise and
Meridian, that we have address ranges that overlap 2700 block to roughly the 2900
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December 6, 2012
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block. To my knowledge the call that I described where we took 22 minutes to respond
to is the only emergency call on Inglewood that has resulted in incorrect routing, but that
one call is one call too many. That call could have ended in tragedy and at this point I
would like to bring up the fact that since this incident has happened and since the
neighborhood meeting we had with the residents on Englewood, that the dispatch
manager has changed policy on the way dispatchers handled and verify calls and
addresses. Dispatchers are expected to not only repeat the address and phone
numbers, they are also required to confirm a minimum of one cross street, the city
name, and confirm the spelling of the street if there is any further questions that are
needed. This change will help confirm when we are sending assistance to the correct
location on routine calls. However, not all calls, as I stated before, can be confirmed.
have a couple of tapes that I want to play for you. Both these calls that we are going to
play came into the dispatch center within the past week and a half. This situation's
happened more than even I can tell you. The first call we are going to play was played
on December 25th, came into our center at 6:30 in the morning. If you will go ahead
and play that, please.
(Audio recording played.)
Britz: The phone call was disconnected. The dispatcher entered a call to what he
thought was the correct address to what he could pick out from that call. Time delay for
entry of the call was one minute, because he was trying to figure out the address. After
call entry we need to add another four minutes to that call to actually locate the address.
The dispatcher was not able to confirm any information as far as an address goes and I
can tell you right now the dispatcher did a wonderful job. They ended up getting the
correct street. They were in the correct hundred block. They were a few houses off, but
the police were able to find the person and thankfully everything was okay. Now -- and,
fortunately, on this call -- and these calls have nothing to do with Englewood, these calls
were not from Englewood, but I can tell you that the difficulty that he had -- and,
fortunately, he was able to pick out that street name -- it is not a sound alike to any
other street. The second call that we are going to play actually has two parts to it,
because the phone was disconnected and, then, the person ended up calling back.
This call was received on December the 4th at 3:58 in the morning. You want to go
ahead and play those.
(Audio recording played.)
Britz: On this second call -- when the first call came in from the female they were
unable to obtain any address whatsoever. This was called in by a cell phone. They
were able to do a ping, retransmit on the cell phone by GPS coordinates and they
entered a call and sent the call using those coordinates they received from the ping on
the phone. The female -- she called back a second time and I can tell you from the first
call to the second call was four minutes later. Four minutes later and we still hadn't
found her. She called back, because no help had arrived. It took three dispatchers
listening to that second call to obtain an address to where she was at. I did clip the
address out of that, because of privacy. She was able to give an address, but it took
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December 6, 2012
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three dispatchers to understand that address and I can tell you that first location they
sent the police to was three to four blocks away from where the actual incident was
happening. So, by the time -- the time lapse from the first call to the first officer on
scene was approximately seven minutes and, actually, with everything considered from
what you could hear, that was pretty good time. This call was devastating. We all say it
will never happen to us. I'm sure that's exactly what she said before this tragedy hit her.
These two calls are really good examples of how at times it is impossible to confirm an
address with the caller and it happens more than you realize. Fortunately both audios
that you just heard were streets that did not have sound alike names and resources
were finally sent to the correct locations. The dispatchers you heard were doing
everything they could possibly do to locate these victims. What would have been the
result if the streets did have the same and sound alike street names? Well, in the case
of Englewood, with an E versus an I, it would probably be determined by how I, as the
dispatcher, spelled Englewood. I can't confirm if you're in Meridian. I can't conform if
you're in Boise. What do I do? Do I send to both locations? I don't know there is two
locations. In the instance where sound alike names are spelled alike I would get a
command telling me, oh, you have this street in this city and you have this street in this
city, now what do I do? I have two selections or three selections of sound alike names
spelled alike. Do I pick one, hope it's the right one, or do I send to all locations --
sending resources to both locations hoping to find the person. That could possibly be a
lot of resources. What are the chances of these things happening? You tell me. I don't
want to take the chance myself. Therefore, my recommendation to this Commission is
to vote in favor of this street name change. A question we often ask is -- that we are
often asked of dispatchers is in an emergency can I be found. The answer is yes.
However, this is not the question you should be asking, but rather you should ask when
will I be found. With that I will stand for any questions.
Freeman: Thank you. Any questions of the applicant at this time? No? Okay. Thank
you very much.
Britz: Thank you.
Freeman: Okay. At this time I will start taking public testimony and I do have several
people that have signed up in the back. If you haven't signed up and you wish to offer
public testimony you will get an opportunity. I would like to first see if anyone in the
audience who wanted to speak on this item who intends to speak for a group as a
spokesperson. Let's start with you. Go ahead and come forward. Please state your
name and address for the record. Could I see a show of hands for who he is speaking
for? Okay. Thank you.
Munkres: Hi. My name is Richard M. Munkres or Mike Munkres. I live at 2656 North
Englewood Way. I'm also speaking as president of the Fairways homeowners
association. I'd like to call your attention -- although I'm speaking for a group, I think
can keep it to around three minutes, so maybe that will help.
Freeman: You can have four.
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December 6, 2012
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Munkres: Okay. I'd like to call your attention to two documents, which should be in the
staff report prepared for you by Terri Ricks. The first is our signed petition submitted by
e-mail on November 9th. I have the petition with the original signatures with me tonight
if you care to see it. I will hold onto it if you want to see it later.
Freeman: We have copies.
Munkres: The signatures on that petition represent 20 of the 22 residents on North
Englewood Way in the Fairways and one hundred percent of those that we were able to
contact. The second document is a letter from the Fairways homeowners association,
dated November 30th. This letter outlines our reasons for requesting that you deny this
application. This letter was also submitted by a-mail and I provided the clerk with
signed copies that you should have before you now. As stated in our letter we are
requesting that you deny this application for two reasons. First, we believe this change
will have a significant and negative impact on our residents. Secondly, we believe this
change is unwarranted and unjustified. The Fairways is a senior community. Most of
the people who reside on North Englewood Way are in their 70s and 80s. Some are in
their 90s. The handout that was given to us at the neighborhood meeting on October.
15th listed the information regarding change of address for drivers licenses and
registration, mortgages and loan documents, legal documents, banking documents, and
periodicals. While this seems fairly simple to younger professional people, it's going to
seem overwhelming to many -- to many of our residents. Some will not be able to make
these changes without assistance. As explained to us by the representative from the
Ada County dispatch at the meeting on October 15th and again in their presentation to
you tonight, this change is being requested because of a single incident of
miscommunication by a dispatcher in a 911 caller from outside the area. This
miscommunication occurred because of limitations in the computer aided dispatch
system and because of a lack of adequate procedures in the dispatch center, not
because of the street name or its spelling and the changes they have already made as
a result of our discussion on October 15th would have resolved this problem had it
occurred today, simply by asking what city are you calling about, what city is this
address in, is going to resolve this problem. Changing the name of Englewood Way will
not solve the problem. Changes in the CAD system and the dispatching procedures are
needed to solve the problem. All of our residents strongly support public safety and
recognize the importance of a timely emergency response and we appreciate how
tough dispatching is and they do a great job at it. If we believe this change was justified
we would support it, in spite of the impacts on residents. We do not believe it is justified
and we strongly oppose it. We ask that you deny this application and leave the name of
North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place unchanged. Our first priority has
been to convince you that you should deny this application and we hope that we have
been able to do that. If not and you do approve the application, we request that you
either select the alternative that was originally offered to change the spelling of
Englewood from E to I or that you allow us time to sit down with the street naming
committee to come up with a name acceptable to our residents. The name that was
offered as Woodcrest was not a name that was approved by the residents, it was simply
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one of several alternatives we gave to Terri to run through the system to see if it were
possibly acceptable. So, we really haven't come to a consensus as a neighborhood and
as residents what would be acceptable to us. Again, our first priority is to keep it as it is
and we ask you to deny the application. Thank you. Do you have any questions?
Freeman: Thank you. Are there any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Munkres: Thank you.
Freeman: Okay. Was there anybody -- I will just go down the list and if you wish to
speak let me know and you will have the opportunity. If not you're welcome to state that
you're either for or against this application. Betsy Munkres. Did you want to speak?
You have got three minutes. And, please, state your name and address for the record
when you get to the mike.
B.Munkres: My name is Betsy Munkres and -- Elizabeth, actually. I live at 2656 North
Englewood Way in Meridian, Idaho. I think the main thing I wanted to mention was we
heard similar recordings at our other meeting and I think those recordings are very
traumatic and devastating, but I don't think the name of the street was the cause of the
problem or the name of the street being similar to another street name. I mean I think
they were un -- they couldn't be understood. I want to reiterate that there has only been
-- in the 12 years we have lived there there has been only one such incident and the
dispatcher did say at the public meeting that she hoped it didn't happen to us and I hope
it doesn't either, but I still do not think that the change warrants as massive a change as
it is and that -- and, plus, there is a lot of streets -- Broadway, Main, Franklin there and
-- and Franklin is even in Nampa or Caldwell and Boise. So, they must have some way
of determining that, other than, you know -- and the last thing is when they first came up
they that we could change the E to an I and that would be the least invasive change and
they said that if that happened, if it was spelled the same, that the CAD system, right in
front of the dispatcher, there would be a drop down menu that would key them
immediately whether -- and to ask Meridian or Boise. So, that's all I have. Thank you.
I'm -- obviously, I oppose it.
Freeman: Thank you. June Perez. Please state your name and address for the
record.
Perez: Thank you. My name is June Perez and my address is 2954 North Englewood
Way. When I first heard from Terri -- she and I had long conversations and she referred
me to Glenda Britz for more information in regard to the problem. When I was talking to
Glenda -- t don't recall whether it was during a phone conversation or at a meeting, but
was told that the dispatchers were not trained to be asking what city or what cross street
in Ada County. After the conversation -- I was shocked about that. And so I called
Canyon county and I called Boise county to get some idea of what their procedures
were to -- because if you were to ask Englewood and you were to ask what city, they
would say Boise or they would say Meridian. The problem would have been resolved,
because the dispatcher would have sent out the most local person to serve that -- that
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address. I just find it amazing that we live in Ada County, the capital of Idaho, and they
didn't ask what city an emergency was taking place in. And so I feel that -- again, as
many -- I think all of the other people on the two streets -- that we are being asked to do
something that -- we don't want anyone hurt, we don't want anyone to suffer because of
a name of a street. That's ridiculous. But we don't want to have to go to the -- the
business part of changing all of our addresses. I was under the impression there is 43
residences. In each household there can be many -- you know, many people. So, we
are talking about alot -- a lot of business and so I really would ask that you would
consider not approving this, because of one -- one call. So, thank you very much.
Freeman: Thank you. Mary Godbey. Godbey. Again for the record. Okay. I can't
read the next name. A few of them, but I will ask for a show of hands. Elaine Meyer?
Somebody spoke for you; correct? Okay. Rudy Perez. Spoke for you. Ted Lewis?
And, please, state your name and address for the record.
Lewis: My name is Ted Lewis. I live at 2898 Englewood Way here in Meridian. And I
worked as an Ada County deputy for years, special deputy for Chuck Palmer and Paul
Bright when they was in there. If I got a call to go somewhere, I always asked if it was
Meridian, Eagle, or where -- where the call was coming from and they could tell me and
I didn't have to -- I didn't have any trouble finding. I have been all over that area out
there where Englewood Road is at. They call it Englewood Road out there.. That's
what's on their signs. And, evidently, they have changed since they have got new
sheriffs in there they don't ask that question. Because, you know, if they say Meridian,
a person knows where to look here in Meridian. If they say Boise you know it's up in
Boise, but not in -- not in Meridian. So, I can't see what the problem is at all with this, so
long as they would go back even to the old way. I know they have a lot of new ways of
finding people on computers and stuff like that, but I don't think it's really necessary and
all the work that I had done for them in all those years, I never charged the county one
dollar for it. I even furnished my own gas to go there. My own vehicle. The only thing
they furnished was the sirens and stuff that they put in my vehicle and, like I say, I have
been all over that -- I have been clear to the airport on different calls -- as long as it is in
Ada County. In fact, I have even had people from other counties, like Emmett, call and
ask for my help over there and I just can't see the problem with Englewood Way down
here. Thank you very much.
Freeman: Thank you. John A. Kemp. And, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Kemp: Sure. I'm John A. Kemp. I live at 2640 Englewood Way. I would like to just add
two points. It was mentioned that there are similar street names between cities. There
are similar street names even within Meridian. Are we opening a door here to change
all of the street names because we have similar names? For instance, there is 2nd
Street East, 2nd Street West. 3rd, 4th, 5th -- how far does it go? Every city has these
names. So, it comes down to procedure and so on. Our second point is that I'm a retire
chief information officer. We used a lot of database structure within our organization
and the hint to the sheriff's office, even though it will cost them money, there is a type of
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December 6, 2012
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coding called mnemonic coding that picks up similar names. For instance, an
Englewood and an Inglewood. If there are multiple, it had similar sounding names, it
would display both. So, there is a technical solution, but there is never going to be a
perfect solution. And, finally, I'd like to say who is going to bear the responsibility for the
cost of all these changes? I don't think the county is going to allow us to change all of
our addresses for free. If so, please, explain those procedures for us. I think there is a
lot more to this than just one incident that's occurred. Thank you for your time. Have
any questions?
Freeman: Any questions? No. Thank you very much.
Kemp: Thank you.
Freeman: Jeanette Sheep -- Shape. No? And Roger. Same last name. Did you wish
to testify or just go on the record as opposed? Opposed. Okay. There is some names
couldn't understand. Is there anybody else that wished to offer public testimony that's
here tonight? Okay. Well, with that I will allow the applicant -- yes. There was one
other person? We are doing both right now, actually. Oh, you're correct. Mary and
Jack Crane. Yeah. Did you wish to testify? Thank you for catching that. Please come
forward and state your name and address for the record.
Crane: My name is Jack Crane. My address is 2820 Englewood Place in Meridian and
went to the first one -- meeting and -- but the name change whatever Crest it was, we
were not notified about that. But this is the worst case scenario and it's sad, but to
change it, you don't -- if you're not over the age of 65 and have health problems you're
not going to understand what we are going to go through with this change. Okay? And
I'd just like to have you consider that. It's been mentioned more than once. But I just
wanted to put in my two cents worth. Thank you for your time. Any questions?
Freeman: All right. Thank you very much. Don't believe so.
Crane: Okay. Thank you.
Freeman: Anyone else? Okay. I'm going to allow the applicant to come forward. You
have another ten minutes if you wish to use it to respond to anything.
Ricks: A couple comments. The street name committee of Ada County is comprised of
-- of representatives from Ada County assessor's office, Meridian Fire Department, Ada
County Highway District, and myself, among others, and we have tried to be really
proactive in recent years to avoid situations such as this. So, when we are reviewing
plats and street names for new subdivisions we are very very careful, very cautious as
we go over each street name -- almost to the point of ridiculousness some would say --
looking for not only identical street names that exist within Ada County, but even
anything remotely sounding like another street name and we do that for -- for this
reason, so that we don't have to in years going forward have to come to this. Regarding
the numbered streets that are in Meridian, actually, a little over a year ago we came
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 12 of 49
before City Council and asked that the numbered streets be given two predirectionals.
So, the numbered streets in Meridian now, rather than just have 2nd Street or 3rd
Street, there would be like Northeast 2nd Street or Southwest 3rd Street and those are
important identifiers. A lot of times people don't realize they live on those and even
though -- with other predirectionals it's not really common -- probably I think Glenda
would attest that when people call in they don't always use them. But there are
important identifiers for dispatch purposes and for emergency response purposes. So,
we have -- we have taken care of that. Also the committee really does not recommend
street names lightly and they are not even recommended immediately after an incident.
So much thought goes into it. This time we actually researched it for quite some time,
had the neighborhood meeting, and that meeting was -- the intent was to reach out to
the residents and explain the situation. Also encourage them to propose new street
names, because as staff we have to come here tonight with a proposed street name,
but our intent was to -- to do that. And we might have -- I hope we didn't fail. I think we
forged some good relationships irregardless of the situation. I think we both just want
public safety to be at its best. That's probably all I have to say.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. I need a motion to close the public hearing.
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I move that we are close the public hearing on the street name.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion to close the public
change for both North
those in favor say aye.
Englewood Way and Nc
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
hearing on the request for street name
th Englewood Place and a second. All
Freeman: All right. Discussion. Who would like to begin?
Baird: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Yes.
Baird: I would like to remind you that it would probably be best for the record if the
Commission considered each of these individually, make a recommendation on the first
-- or a decision on the first one and, then, deliberate on the second one and make a
separate decision.
Freeman: Okay. I was prepared to take separate motions, but your suggestion we also
deliberate separately on them as well.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 13 of 49
Baird: You know, there is no right answer to that. The testimony that we have heard
has been homogeneous and Ithink --Ithink it would probably be -- after hearing how --
how things are going, you're probably going to have the same deliberations for both.
So, go ahead if that's your -- that's your desire and just make sure you make separate
motions.
Freeman: All right. Thank you. So, just to clarify, we will go ahead and deliberate on
both, but we will take separate motions on each one of these recommendations. Again,
who would like to begin?
O'Brien: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: I, too, was in a position over the years to be in a police car and be called to
different places and I have to say Iwas -- I was never given a wrong street address to
go to or whatever. What's really perplexing is that we are talking here about similar
street names. Actually, it boils down to what city and I think that's a key point here,
because what do you do with streets that are -- have north and a southeast and an east
and a west? I live on Locust Grove and I live on South Locust Grove. And, then, there
is a North Locust Grove. Similar address numbers, as a matter of fact. One -- North
Locust Grove has the same address as I have, except it's north, mine is south. There is
just all these areas that can become very confusing one way or the other. Changing
one street name is not -- it's not going to help the situation. Ithink it lies with the
dispatcher's procedures and their computer program to solve those kind of issues, I
think any other change would be a band-aide and I just don't think that's the direction
we should be going here. I just think that the dispatching area, that's their charter, to
get it right. They need to find a way to do that, to make sure that we are all safe and,
yeah, I can appreciate the frantic calls that come in there and -- and when I arrived at
some residences in that kind of an environment they were hysterical, but it's a wonder
that they were able to get -- get as many right as they do. I just don't think this is the
answer here, so I'm not going to be for that. Thank you.
Freeman: Thank you. Commissioner Yearsley, would you like to go next? You're next
in line.
Yearsley: Sure. You know -- and it's a tough situation when you're trying to balance
safe -- public safety versus having to get a whole bunch of new street names, so I can
understand both, and it's just -- it's a tough situation and trying to balance those two, I'm
not -- honestly don't quite know which way to go, to be honest with you, at this point.
Freeman: Commissioner Rohm?
Rohm: I'm not sure that I'm going to say this exactly right, but I'm going to make a stab
at it, and I wrote this down and so it may -- anyway, I will just read it. Okay. When the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 14 of 49
rights of the individual are taken by the will of the mass, justice has not been served.
That's something that Abraham Lincoln said a long long time ago and I think that we are
kind of dealing with that kind of an issue here tonight. If you were the one individual that
was not served because the street was misstated or there was some confusion in
dispatch, you would be the sole individual that would lose because of that issue and to
allow that to happen because the masses are opposed to this, causes me great concern
and so albeit that I agree wholeheartedly with Commissioner O'Brien that there should
be a better way, at this point in time the system doesn't have a better way and I think
that we at all times need to be concerned about the individual, as well as the masses,
and so even though I think that it's ridiculous that we have to come to this, my position
would be I would be in favor of the name changes, if solely for the purpose of serving a
single individual that may present itself at some point in time down the road. That's all I
have to say.
Freeman: Thank you. Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: I want to say I agree with Commissioner Yearsley. It is -- I'm extremely torn
by this. What we are asking of these residents is extremely difficult. I have changed
addresses and changed everything in my life and try to remember -- trying to keep
everything straight. It is difficult. It is really difficult. And we are asking an awful lot of
them. It's. also really concerning to me .that we would miss that one call and that could
result in deaths or whatever. Some type of catastrophic problem. I'm also disappointed
in the CAD system. Extremely disappointed in the CAD system, because I think it
should be fairly straight forward to be able to place a query anytime you place
Englewood with an I or Englewood with an E into that system, it should automatically
pop up a query. Software can do that. I know great programmers that can do that for
you. And we do have some similar situations with Locust Grove, north and south, with
similar addresses. We run into that all the time. And how are we going to deal with
that? I do appreciate -- I do appreciate the work that everybody has been doing to try to
alleviate any type of issue where we are going to misunderstand a 911 call. Those are
vitally important and Idon't -- I really appreciate the work everybody has been doing.
Gosh, right now I am sitting on the fence. I am having a hell of a time with it.
Freeman: I will give you at least another 30 seconds to think.
Marshall: Appreciate that.
Freeman: My turn. I agree it's a difficult issue and I can see why opinions -- opinions
would differ on this. Communication is a difficult thing and -- in any scenario and it's
never going to be perfect and I appreciate everything that goes into what you're doing
and what you're recommending and I appreciate why, because public safety is number
one. That's your job. And you want to make sure that nobody has to wait for an extra
few minutes or several minutes because of an error in communication. And that's --
that's commendable. I understand that. There is another thing to be balanced with that
here, though, and that is the very people that we are hoping to protect have come in
mass to say we don't want this kind of protection. We want to keep our identity by the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 15 of 49
street name that was given to us. That's what we want. And so for me it becomes a
question of how -- how do we best serve our residents in a situation like this. Do we
best serve you by imposing a change on you that you really don't want and you
vocalized that or do we best serve you by allowing that margin of risk that you may
maintain by not accepting a new street name? Do we best serve you in that way by
protecting the street name? I have said this before, I have a hard time changing the
street name -- the identify where someone lives, that name, for the sake of a small
additional margin of safety, which, if you ask most of the residents who are offered that
trade off, they don't want to that trade off and so in this case I think it comes down to
that question, do we impose this against residents, even though they don't want it, for
their good, because it is going to make you safer, or do we leave it the way it is? And
-- I respect opinions on both sides. I respect Commissioner Rohm's opinion on this.
He's been consistent in this type of opinion on these issues and I have, too. I just don't
see it the same way that he would see it and I would tend to vote against the street
name change when so many residents are opposed to it, knowing what the issue is.
So, Commissioner O'Brien, did you want to add something?
O'Brien: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question. I'm surprised I didn't ask it
myself when -- when the dispatch representative was up here. But Ihave aquestion --
and I'd probably have to reopen the public hearing to ask the question. Is that right?
Then I would like to reopen the public hearing number -- if I can find it here. Just the
public hearing. It doesn't a number.
Baird: A and B.
Freeman: Just call it Items A and B.
O'Brien: A and B.
Freeman: Street name change.
O'Brien: Okay. Ma'am, I have a question for you.
Freeman: I think we -- do we need to approve a motion to reopen a public hearing?
And is it appropriate to ask you what your question is, so that we know what we are
approving or --
O'Brien: I want to know about the caller ID -- when a call is made from a land line, for
instance, from a home, that the caller ID automatically comes up on the switchboard at
the dispatch's office, why that wasn't -- is that used or -- that's the kind of question
have.
Freeman: Okay. Let's go ahead and make your motion and --
O'Brien: I did and so now --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 16 of 49
Freeman: Okay. Did I hear a second?
Rohm: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing for Items A and B,
the street name changes regarding North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Okay. We have reopened the hearing. Go ahead, Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Ma'am, would you care to address that? Do you understand the question,
ma'am?
Britz: Yes.
Freeman: Please restate your name and address for the record. Thank you.
Britz: My name is Glenda Britz with the Ada County Sheriffs Department, Emergency
Communications Bureau. To answer. your question reference. the. land line number,
that's called enhanced 911. It does come up when they are calling from a land line
number, with the address and the name or the business or a person. It comes up on a
screen. It can be populated into our dispatch computer. That doesn't always -- most of
the time most people now have cell phones, to be truthful with you, and I can tell you as
the MSAG coordinator I deal a lot with enhanced 911. I work with Intrado Company and
I work with Qwest -- or CenturyLink now. Excuse me. Dealing with the address
changes stuff and a lot of people do not make sure that their addresses are changed.
So, even though an address populates, chances are it's going to be correct. However,
there is still that slight possibility that it's not going to be correct. It could be an old
address. I have taken addresses that have been changed six years ago and in our
enhanced system they still show that old address from six years ago. But when I call
the person, oh, no, our address was changed six years ago. So, it's not always correct.
Does that answer your question?
O'Brien: That answers my question, but -- which brings up a whole lot of other ones,
but I'm not going to get into that. It just seems -- it just seems like the system as you
say, six years ago, is very antiquated and I think there is some serious issues with the
process and procedures that that office right now has and I -- you just even sold me
even more so on -- on the issues that are in your office.
Britz: That issue would be enhanced. It's not through our office. That's through
CenturyLink and that's through Intrado.
O'Brien: It all comes down to the point of -- of your office. I mean it all comes together
there. That's where everything happens. That's what you see on the board. So, if
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 17 of 49
there is an issue with -- with someone else, then, I think that needs to be --
Britz: And that is addressed. Once it comes and -- most of the time, unfortunately,
some of the stuff is not found until something comes up. When something comes up
with like the enhanced 911 and there is an error in an address that is presented, that
change is made, and I can tell you through Intrado when those change requests are put
in that change is made immediately.
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien, I want to ask did you get the answer to your question
that you were seeking?
O'Brien: I did.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Were there any other questions?
Marshall: Yes, sir.
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Okay. So, when you're saying enhanced 911, you're talking about the land
lines only having six year old data?
Britz: Some of the land lines that have the change -- yes.
Marshall: Okay. Now, let's move to cell phones. It's my understanding that a lot of cell
phones now actually have geo locations for 911. Are we capable of doing that?
Britz: They have what they call phase one and phase two with cell phones. Phase one
where when a person calls in it's being -- it's tracking off of the nearest cell tower.
Marshall: Right.
Freeman: Okay. Which may or may not be -- I'm not sure of the exact footage -- hold
on a second, please, and I will get that for you.
Marshall: I understand triangulation between cell towers to be able to locate something,
but I would think that would be secondary to actually being able to use the GPS data
already stored in the phone, which I believe is part of the 911 system. At least it's
supposed to be nationwide.
Freeman: Right now it's phase one and phase two. Phase two is the one that comes
within -- I think it's 150 feet of where the person is supposed to be located, so that's still
150 feet away from possibly where they really are.
Marshall: Approximately one house. Yeah.
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 18 of 49
Britz: Yeah.
Freeman: If I could interject. I know that we are going to resolve anything by getting
into the specific procedures that are now in place, unless you're getting some specific
information that's going to help you make a decision on this.
Marshall: Just received some information that's going to help me resolve this. For me.
Freeman: Did you need to ask another question or --
Marshall: No.
Freeman: -- you got what you need?
Marshall: I got what I need.
Freeman: Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much.
O'Brien: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: I move to close the public hearing for the name change.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for the street name
change. Yes? You know, I -- I think I'm going to -- we have heard all the public
testimony -- most of it. At this point we are trying to move forward. We just had a few
questions that we wanted to get answered, so --
Baird: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Yes.
Baird: Unfortunately, in the interest of fairness --
Freeman: Okay.
Baird: -- if the questions asked and answers given did bring up new issues, I think it
would be fair to allow some very brief testimony that -- on the new information only.
Freeman: Okay. Let me ask that. Did the raising questions trigger some additional
items you would like to address? Okay. Well, in the interest of fairness let's make sure.
Take some extra time. Come on up. We will give you three minutes. Please state our
name and address for the record.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 19 of 49
Smith: My name is Roy Smith. I live at 2686 Aronmink Lane in the Fairways
homeowners association and I'm a board member. But the questions that I have is, you
know, the street name is Englewood Place, Englewood Way, and Inglewood Road.
Those are identifiers, in my opinion. And the other thing that -- you know, I am
assuming if an incident were to come up somewhere from 1996 when those streets
were named until now it would have brought -- came up before. So, we are looking at
one incident in 13 years and we are going to change the street name for that one
incident. I just don't understand it, so -- and that's all I have to say.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Okay. I had a motion and a second to close the public
hearing. I think I can go with that motion. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The
public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Did the questions trigger any new comments from any of the
Commissioners?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: My -- my comments are simply that, obviously, we should be able to locate
simply by landline -- automatically locate whether it's Boise or Meridian. Cell phones I
know are coming out with the 911 where you have got the GPS in your cell phone and
should be able to locate it. Short of the 911 GPS signal being sent back, we should be
able to triangulate -- now, I know that takes some time and it's difficult to do, but they
can be triangulated. I'm falling against the name change, so --
Freeman: I need somebody to make a motion, then, if there are no further comments.
O'Brien: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. Borrow the language from another item in front of
you.
O'Brien: Okay. All right. So, after consideration of other -- I guess that's not the right
one. Which one do I use, then?
Freeman: Any of them.
Baird: Mr. Chair. It may be as simple as saying with regard to the name change for
Englewood Way.
O'Brien: Okay. With regards to the name change of Englewood Way and Place --
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 20 of 49
Freeman: Oh. We are going to make separate motions. So, start with -- thank you.
O'Brien: I move to disallow any name change. To keep the names the same as they
are right now.
Marshall: I second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to -- disallow was the word you used? To
deny the name change for North Englewood Way to the new name. All those in favor
say aye. Opposed?
Rohm: Aye.
Freeman: Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY.
Freeman: I now need a motion for Englewood Place.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move that we deny the name change for North Englewood Place.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to deny the name change request for North
Englewood Place. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
Rohm: Aye.
Freeman: Four to one. Motion carries. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing: AZ 12-013 Locust Grove Water Reservoir #2 by
City of Meridian Public Works Department Located at East
Side of S. Locust Grove Road, Approximately 1/4 Mile South of
E. Victory Road Request: Annexation and Zoning of Four (4)
Acres of Land with an R-4 Zoning District
D. Public Hearing: CUP 12-017 Locust Grove Water Reservoir #2
by City of Meridian Public Works Department Located East
Side of S. Locust Grove Road, Approximately 1/4 Mile South of
E. Victory Road Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval for
Public Infrastructure in a Proposed R-4 Zoning District,
Consisting of Two (2) Million Gallon Municipal Water Storage
Facility
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 21 of 49
Freeman: Next item. If I can find myself here. Okay. At this time I'd like to open the
public hearing for Item No. AZ 12-013, Locust Grove reservoir number two and also
CUP 12-017 for the same, beginning with the staff report.
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Yes.
Yearsley: Before we go, I would like to recuse myself of this application due to the fact
that I live in the Tuscany Subdivision, which is adjacent to this project, and I am on the
association -- Tuscany homeowners association board and have been through a lot of
the public hearings within the city with the residents and stuff and don't feel like I could
be fair with this, so at this time I'd like to recuse myself.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Yearsley. Can we, Ted, have him back
once this particular hearing is over?
Baird: Yes. Mr. Chair, I have suggested that he stay out in the hallway, just so that
there is no indication -- improper visual cues or anything of that nature. And he can
actually listen to it out there, that's no problem.. There is audio in the hallway and when
it's done he can come back for the next hearing.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. So, staff report. Sonya, is that you?
Wafters: That's me.
Freeman: Go ahead.
Wafters: Chairman Freeman, Member of the Commission. The next application before
you is an annexation and zoning and conditional use permit request. This site consists
of four acres of land. It's currently zoned RUT in Ada County and is located on the east
side of South Locust Grove, approximately a quarter of a mile south of Victory.
Adjacent land uses and zoning. To the north is vacant property and we have an
application currently in process for a rezone to R-8 and a plat for single family
residential uses. Tradewinds Subdivision. Currently zoned RUT in Ada County. To the
east are single family residences in Tuscany Lakes Subdivision, zoned R-4. To the
south is rural residential property zoned RUT in Ada County. And to the west is Locust
Grove and across that is vacant land zoned RUT in Ada County and single family
residences in Tuscany Village Subdivision, zoned R-8. The city proposes to annex the
subject parcel with an R-4 zoning designation, consistent with the Comprehensive Plan
future land use map designation of medium density residential. The site is proposed to
develop with a -- excuse me -- a water reservoir, which is classified in the Unified
Development Code as public infrastructure and requires conditional use permit approval
in the R-4 district. This is a site plan for the site. I'm going to flip to the landscape plan.
It's a little easier to look at. The proposed infrastructure consists of an above-ground
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 22 of 49
water reservoir and associated equipment storage building. The reservoir consists of a
circular tank, 20 feet in height, and 145 feet in diameter, with a two million gallon
storage capacity. The equipment storage building, which is right here, consists of
approximately 3,360 square feet and will have a series of pumps, fans, and equipment
necessary for the operation of the reservoir. A backup emergency generator will be
located between the structure and the reservoir and will run an average of 15 minutes
per week as part of its maintenance program. In the event of a power outage, the
generator will provide power for the operation of the facility. Access to the site will be
provided from the north via Tradewinds Subdivision, currently in the approval process.
If this site develops prior to the adjacent subdivision, temporary access will be provided
via Locust Grove. Once access is available from the north the temporary access will
cease and be removed. This is the landscape plan that was submitted with the
application. There has been a revised one. I thought I had it in this presentation, but
apparently I don't. So, I will -- anyway, the only difference is it shows an access right
here to the north. A 25 foot wide buffer is required along Victory and a berm with dense
landscaping consisting of a mix of evergreen and deciduous trees and shrubs is
proposed around the water tank to visually buffer the proposed facility from adjacent
residential property. All landscaping is required to be maintained in a healthy growing
condition at all times. The Ten Mile Creek runs along the southern boundary of the site
right here and will remain open as it is a natural waterway. A ten foot wide multi-use
pathway is designated on the master pathways plan on this site along the north side of
the creek. There is an approximate 160 foot long gap between the existing pathway in
Tuscany Lakes Subdivision and the southeast boundary of this site. For this reason
staff recommends construction of the pathway on this site be delayed until the city is
able to obtain an easement on the adjacent property for the existing pathway and the
extension of the pathway. Although the pathway will be constructed at a later date staff
recommends an easement for the pathway on the site be submitted to the city,
approved by Council, and recorded prior to issuance of certificate of zoning compliance.
The applicant has worked extensively with surrounding neighbors on the location of the
reservoir, the equipment structure, placement of landscape berms, trees, shrubs, and
fencing to provide the maximum buffer between the residents and the facility. This is a
cross-section here showing the berm and the reservoir and the landscaping. Kind of
gives you an idea. Written testimony was received from Shawn Nickel agreement with
the staff report and staff is recommending approval of the proposed application. Staff
will stand for any questions Commission may have.
Freeman: Thank you. Any questions at this time? All right. Would the applicant like to
come forward and, please, state your name and address for the record.
Nickel: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. For the record Shawn Nickel,
1589 North Estancia Place, Eagle, Idaho. I'm here this evening representing the Public
Works Department for the City of Meridian. Nice to see you all again. As staff has
indicated, we are asking for an annexation and rezone of this four acre parcel into the
City of Meridian, with a conditional use permit for public infrastructure to construct the
water reservoir facility and, again, the -- it's a 20 some high by 145 foot diameter above
ground water reservoir, two million gallon maximum capacity. In addition, we have a
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 23 of 49
3,350 square foot utility maintenance building that will be part of that facility. The site
plan that you have before you -- and I don't know if staff has the revised plan that they
can show it now. Oh, there it is. Okay. Through negotiations with the developer to the
north that purchased the property after we were involved with the entitlement process,
we were able to get that access to the north, thus avoiding that access off of Locust
Grove. Otherwise, everything else remains the same. Some slight modifications to that
-- to that access there to the north. So, full landscaping out on Locust Grove, as
opposed to the gap where the entrance would be. The site plan is the result of several
years of planning, including multiple meetings with the neighbors, evaluations of this
property as surrounding properties for potential locations of this facility and working with
impacted neighbors on the design that does it's best to make this facility compatible with
the surrounding land uses. This project is needed to provide water demands for this
portion of the city for uses for potable water and fire protection. This property was
chosen because it met many of the criteria that the city Public Works Department was
looking for for this facility, including location on an -- on an arterial roadway, which is
Locust Grove, adjacent to a drain, which is the Ten Mile Creek. Proper access to
adequate Idaho Power services, and the least amount of impact on adjacent land uses.
The facility will have the majority of the equipment, such as fans and pumps located
within the -- within the storage building. As staff has indicated, there will be a backup
generator that will be located outside and that generator will be for emergency use if the
facility loses main power and that generator will run approximately 15 minutes a week
as part of the -- as part of the maintenance program to make sure that it fires
adequately and that Public Works Department is able to time that to where it could
come on anytime during the day, so usually during, you know, late morning when
people are at work it will fire on for ten or 15 minutes, just to run and make sure it's
working properly. The provided site plan does show landscaping and buffering that was
designed with the input of the impacted neighbors to our -- to our east and our -- and
our south. A six foot wrought iron fence that will -- that will provide security surrounding
the property. Again, access will be taken from the north now. We do show the pathway
on our plan and as staff has indicated, that pathway will be delayed in the construction
that we will provide. I was just talking to the Parks Department -- I don't know if we are
going to provide an easement -- you need to provide an easement to yourself, since the
city owns the property, but in the findings it will be designated that that pathway will be
in that location in the future. We did review the staff report and the conditions of
approval and we have no concerns at this time to what staff is recommending, so I will
stand for questions you have at this time.
Freeman: Thank you. Any questions?
O'Brien: Yeah. Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Yeah. Thanks, Shawn. How many people will this thing serve? What -- can
you give kind of a lay of an area? Is it all within a square mile or is it just how -- I'm
assuming this pumps uphill, so don't have to worry about height of it.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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Nickel: Yeah. It serves this general area and lots of the vacant ground that is
surrounding to the south and to the -- to the west of this.
O'Brien: So, any further development south of that area, like beyond Amity?
Nickel: Yeah. I can -- I can get back to you on that.
O'Brien: Okay. I was just curious.
Nickel: In that area. Yeah. I don't have that with me, but I can get you --
O'Brien: Okay. Yeah. Because I didn't know if they were -- if you're planning on having
another later on or some other place or --
Nickel: Yeah. The Public Works Department does have a master water plan that we
could probably muster up and get in front of you.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you.
Freeman: Okay. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much.
Nickel: Okay. Thanks.
Freeman: Okay. Okay. I will start taking public testimony. I have a few people sign
the sheet in the back. I will just go down the list. Shawn Nickel. That was Shawn.
Thank you. You will get another opportunity. Matt Carden. Did you wish to testify?
Please state your name and address for the record.
Carden: My name is Matt Carden. I live at 1802 East Deerhill Court. It is the property
directly east of the proposed water tank site. I speak for several individuals and
neighbors and residents who are most affected by the proposed plan and would first just
like to say that we appreciate tremendously the collaboration that we have received
over the last several months as we have looked at the plans and we have looked at
specific criteria that has been established to make this project amenable to both sides.
We feel like we have gained alignment on several points of the plan, particularly with the
landscaping and -- and some of the other initiatives that we have taken to help maintain
the character if our community and of our subdivision. I would like to go on the record
and state for both myself and, as I have mentioned, several of the residents that as a
separate issue we would be opposed to the proposed path that's a separate piece of
this project and this is not something that we feel, both from a monetary standpoint, and
the expense, nor from the safety of our children that play at the park, that it would
connect to something that we feel is necessary at this time. With that statement being
said, I would certainly state that, once again, I represent a couple of the residents, but
don't represent everybody, and would encourage others that have opinions one way or
the other to also express them. Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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Freeman: Thank you. I have one question before you go.
Carden: You bet.
Freeman: Could you specify what your safety concern is with the path?
Carden: It's access from a major throughway to not residents of the -- of the subdivision
and just concern that the path is going to be going along an area that is most likely not
well lit and it's certainly not going to have other buildings and other traffic in that area
that would mitigate the risk of somebody sneaking in.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. That was all.
Carden: Thank you.
Freeman: Jason Bell. And, please, state your name and address for the record.
Bell: My name is Jason Bell, I live at 1828 East Sergio Court. I'm in a cul-de-sac
directly east of where the water tank is to be placed and, again, just to reiterate what
Matt said, we do appreciate the City of Meridian working with us to get the esthetics of
the tank, the landscaping, the fencing, and the -- to where we are both agreeable with
that. Again, just to reiterate what Matt said, with the path is a lot of the residents of our
subdivision -- we pay association dues that maintain these -- essentially private parks of
our subdivision. We have the parks that we pay for to maintain that we built and this
path is granting access for others to come in and use it. We pay for the maintenance of
it and it does also concern the safety of it by having this path allow others just another
access point into our subdivision. There is a lot of vegetation as you can see from Ten
Mile Creek. And also what will be placed in with the water tank of trees where a lot of
people can go to hide and safety concerns with that. I don't know if we are going to
have City of Meridian police on bike paths constantly patrolling this, you know, where
kids and teenagers can go to do drugs, other things -- I mean in the future down the
road and this is just something that we don't want to bring into our community as a
future problem. Right now these parks only have access coming through our streets
and our neighborhood where we have houses and neighbors that continually watch as
they -- you know, neighborhood watch and see people coming in and out with vehicles
and with this access point coming from Locust Grove really there is no view of seeing
who is coming in or who is doing what. So, as a community and neighborhood for
myself and others who I have expressed, we do have a concern with the future safety of
allowing this path coming into our neighborhood and also the use of, essentially, the
parks that we pay for. And that's all I have.
Freeman: Thank you. Jim Faber. Is that right? And, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Faber: Jim Faber. 3647 South Basilica Way. I live south of the proposed project. We
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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will have a beautiful view to the north outside of several windows of our nice home. We
I think to the person all initially would have preferred that it move somewhere else. So, I
don't think anybody that has spoken so far has initially been in the approval mode of the
tank, but that said, I think with discussions over months with -- with the department and
think well spent time with the neighborhood and your department, Public Works, came
to -- to a synergistic solution with a lot of time spent looking at what the trees could do,
could we move and shift the -- could we shift it, could we lower it, could we -- what could
we do. So, a lot of time was spent with -- with the public input. One concern beyond
the path, which I think has been stated and I will just restate it quickly, is this path drops
right into a beautiful little park with slides and little kids playing around there, used often.
That wouldn't be acceptable to us. There -- there is a trail that comes down to Palermo
and into the subdivision, which is already in existence, so, you know, why another path.
Again, this is not an issue -- the path is not an -- of this department, it's an issue for the
-- for the parks and recreation. So, that will be taken up later. But I think we just need
to note that the path is probably one of the touchier buttons. Along with the plan that
you have before you, these trees that were -- that are shown here, with the help of good
consultants and others was a project where we were taken out by the department to
look at other tanks and how trees would help alleviate -- or at least mitigate some of the
-- the obvious eye sore. The concern here is that --
Freeman: That was our button, so I need to have you conclude pretty quickly.
Faber: Oh. Okay. That the city live up to our expectations, that there is a certain
caliper of trees here, these aren't just little sprigs that we are putting in the ground and
we will have some protection 20 years from now, but that we have -- that we spend the
money wisely and we do what we said we were going to do. Thank you very much.
Freeman: Thank you. Jim Cox. Didn't wish to testify? In support. And Scott Barker?
You wish to testify. Please state your name and address for the record.
Barker: Commissioners, my name is Scott Barker at 3595 South Basilica Way. I am at
the property to the immediate south of the pocket park and the first property to the south
on the upstream side of Ten Mile Creek. I was originally involved pretty heavily with the
neighbors and the city back in 2010, two years ago when we first started this and there
was quite a hodge-podge of different people that got involved and some fairly charged
emotions and lots of disagreement on what should all be done and, eventually, I
became disenfranchised and kind of checked out for a while, so I was especially
surprised to see when this came up on the notion -- on the notice, so I wanted to at
least reiterate a couple of the concerns I raised early in the project that I had mentioned
to some of the City Council, the Mayor, and I think on a couple of occasions with some
of the -- the city engineers that we haven't been in contact in quite a while. And,
particularly, my primary concern was if there was a failure, whether it be a rupture, a
pump stuck on, some other discharge event that might occur at the site. As
understand it there is a culvert on Locust Grove Road that presents a flooding problem
for Ten Mile Creek in this vicinity and I haven't seen yet that we have had an analysis
performed -- and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong if it has been -- what would happen
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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in the event of such an unlikely event, how it would impact this area. Obviously, I'm the
first property up the stream from Ten Mile Creek, so if there is a heavy rain event, we
have a pump that gets left on, it discharges thousands, if not millions of gallons of water,
where is it going. So, that's been my primary concern and, hopefully, maybe somebody
from the staff can address if that is something that they have looked at. I have shared
examples, reports in the past with engineers, but, again, I'm not sure if something
similar has been performed, if an analysis has been completed or not. That was my
testimony.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Was there anybody else that wished to offer public
testimony this evening? Got one more. Please state your name and address for the
record.
Gibbons: Certainly. Jay Gibbons. I work for the City of Meridian. My address is 33
East Broadway, Suite 206. I am the pathways project manager with the Parks
Department and I appreciate the collaboration between the neighbors and the Public
Works Department to work on this and address the issues with this project. And
represent the -- of course the pathway along Ten Mile and Ican -- Ten Mile Creek. I
can add a little bit of clarity there. I'm not sure if I know how to run this little -- but the --
this area right along here is the tot lot that's been referred to and the Ten Mile -- when
Tuscany was developed the developing company built amulti-use pathway that ran
along Ten Mile and it turns up through tot lot and runs into the -- into Palermo, I believe,
reference to that road. And it doesn't continue on. That's -- there is a 165 foot gap
between the corner of that existing pathway and the fence at the corner of -- where the
subdivision ties into Ten Mile Creek. I had hoped at some point to approach the
neighbors to pursue an easement across there to extend the pathway along Ten Mile
Creek to Locust Grove. Currently, of course, the situation is not such and that's fine
really appreciate the neighbors making that -- making that clear. What I -- I commend
Public Works for doing it and working with me anyways in regards to a future potential
pathway that may or may not ever get built, but the way that the site plan is laid out they
reserve some space for a pathway. It's outside the fence -- between the fence and Ten
Mile Drain -- or creek itself and so the potential is there, the area is there in the future
should it ever become a possibility of extending that Ten Mile Creek pathway and, if not,
that's fine, too, and we still have the -- the common -- the open area and we don't have
a connection to Tuscany. So, I just wanted to provide a little bit of background there.
I'm in support of the condition that says, no, not going to build a pathway, especially, at
this time. We have the space to do it in the future, we will readdress that. If -- if
sentiment changes and the neighbors are amenable to that possibility, so -- and I will
stand for questions.
O'Brien: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Yes, Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Yeah. A little bit confused here. Several references were made to the park
that this pathway goes into. Is that city owned or partially owned or is it owned by
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December 6, 2012
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everybody in that subdivision?
Gibbons: Chairman Freeman, Commissioner O'Brien, it is -- the pocket park is a private
park that Tuscany developed. They do have a tot lot. They have a playground in there
and a nice grass open area.
O'Brien: Okay.
Gibbons: So, this --
O'Brien: Okay. I got it.
Gibbons: So -- but it's there. They maintain it. The city has --
O'Brien: So, the large one that's on the south side of the -- the Tuscany Subdivision,
that's a city park, I believe. It's quite large.
Gibbons: Renaissance Park is within -- within Tuscany to the east several blocks. We
do have a city park that the city maintains.
O'Brien: Just want to make sure I got that straight. Thank you.
Gibbons: That's correct.
Freeman: I hate to challenge you technologically, but on this map could you maybe
show us where the existing path is and where it's -- where the future plan for the
extension are?
Gibbons: Mr. Chairman, the existing pathway long the Ten Mile Creek developed at the
-- at the time of development runs along -- right along the creek, it crosses the entry
road, and it comes in just into the corner of the tot lot and turns up. See what I'm
saying?
Freeman: Yes.
Gibbons: So, it's totally separated from -- from the water tank property itself by about
165 feet.
Freeman: Is there an intended extension of that through additional neighborhoods in
the future?
Gibbons: It does extend to the south through another existing development. It was built
at that time, but there would have to be a crossing where Ten Mile Creek and the other
waterway that's perpendicular flows over the top of each other, there would have to be a
bridge in that -- in that regard. Originally when Tuscany was developed, according to
the development application, the Ten Mile Creek pathway was going to beaten foot
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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wide pathway and was to be given to the Meridian Parks Department and the future as
part of an overall greenbelt plan and that's why our master plan indicates a pathway
connecting to Locust Grove in the future.
Freeman: So, it would connect to Locust Grove, you don't know where it would go
beyond Locust Grove at this point? Would it continue along the creek?
Gibbons: There is -- on the south side of the creek -- this one, of course -- the existing
one through Tuscany is on the north side of Ten Mile Creek. Across Locust Grove there
is an existing Ten Mile multi-use pathway up to Victory on the south side of --
Freeman: Okay.
Gibbons: -- that was built with this -- a development directly across to the east.
Freeman: That helps me understand the perspective of why the path is being
proposed.
Gibbons: Right.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions?
Gibbons: All right. Thank you.
Freeman: Was there anybody else that wished to offer testimony this evening? All
right. Would the applicant like to come forward. You have got another ten minutes if
you would like to use them.
Nickel: Thank you, again, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. And, for the record,
Shawn Nickel. First of all I guess we need to -- we need to thank the neighbors that are
-- that are here this evening. They have gone through a long, drawn out process and
over two years. I think we had six neighborhood meetings and, then, several meetings
after that to get the landscaping plan designed and so I do appreciate them coming
forward and, you know, supporting the concept that we have here, understanding that
this is going to be in their backyards and they -- you know. And it is going to be
somewhat of an impact, but they were great to work with. Real fast. Couple of points of
clarification. Sonya, could you put the elevation that shows the site from the neighbor --
neighboring property onto the -- just a point of clarification. When staff pointed out the --
the tank height I believe she pointed to -- she pointed to that elevation right there and,
actually, the tank is -- is -- this is the location right here. So, just for clarification, that
just shows the gap between the -- between the landscaping and the tank itself. So,
just wanted to clear that up. And, then, also I had referenced in the city's criteria for the
location of this site, I had stated that the road -- Locust Grove Roadway was a -- was an
important criteria and just to correct myself, the main transmission lines that are in that
road is what was important for that location, not necessarily fronting on -- on Locust
Grove, because there is not really that much impact onto the roadway, but those
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December 6, 2012
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transmission lines in -Locust Grove. I wanted to just clarify that for you. Thanks to Jay
for getting up and explaining the pathway issues. I don't know if you had more
questions on that. That was good for him. And, then, I have got Clint here to -- I think
he's going to address your question, Commissioner O'Brien, about the -- there is no
homes in the area in this that this is going to service and, then, we can also address
your questions about -- or the neighbor's questions about the safety in the event of
some overflowing of the water from the tank, so --
Freeman: Thank you. I need your name and address also.
Worthington: Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is Clint Worthington.
work for the Public Works Department, City of Meridian, and I just kind of wanted to
address like -- Shawn said a couple of the questions that came up. The first one being
with the -- the zone that it serves, the area that it serves, it's our zone four, which,
basically, runs -- it would be zone four and five, but zone four runs from the freeway
roughly past -- it would be past Amity and, then, zone five runs all the way to Lake
Hazel. So, it's serving that area out there.
O'Brien: So, Amity to Lake Hazel is zone five?
Worthington: Yeah.
O'Brien: Okay. So, it stops there at Amity.
Worthington: That's because the zone boundary runs at an angle.
O'Brien: Okay.
Worthington: So, it runs kind of at a skew angle to -- from the east to the west, but it
runs -- the pressure zone starts at the freeway and runs up to roughly --
O'Brien: Runs at an angle to the bench?
Worthington: Yes.
O'Brien: Okay.
Worthington: So, that's the zone area that this tank will serve.
O'Brien: Okay. I just wanted to -- okay.
Worthington: And the other issue I wanted to address was the siting with the creek.
The reason why we picked this site right there was we had access to a drainage in case
something catastrophic were to happen, so we have located it next to this creek and the
creek has more than enough volume in it to take this tank if it were to leak out. So,
that's the whole reason behind being next to the creek, if there was any kind of failure or
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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if we had to drain it. So, I think that was all I had, other than the catastrophic failure of
the tank. These tanks are designed to certain standards by our structural engineers
that -- you know, certain, so catastrophic failures are pretty rare. But I just wanted to
address that, so I will stand for any questions.
Freeman: Are there any further questions? Thank you.
Worthington: You bet.
Freeman: All right. That was the applicant. Before we close the public hearing, any
other questions? Commissioner Rohm?
Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I have a question of staff. Had this property been developed by
-- with regular lots on it, as opposed to being changed for this purpose, would we not
have required the developer to put a pathway adjacent to the perimeter?
Friedman: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioner Rohm. That's a very good
question and the answer is -- simple answer to that is yes. One of the things that we as
a city, as an applicant, want to make sure that we hold ourselves to the same standard,
if not a higher standard, than we would for any applicant. That's not to say that we may
not have the same conversation about the pathway, but because the city has an
adopted pathway plan and because it is a code requirement that we would impose on a
private developer, we felt that both in the spirit of the plan, as well as in the spirit of
holding ourselves to the same standards that we would have made the same
recommendation.
Rohm: That was the purpose of the question. Thank you.
Freeman: Thank you, Commissioner Rohm. Any other questions? Okay. Can I get a
motion to close the public hearing?
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move we close the public hearing on AZ 12-013 and CUP 12-017.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for AZ 12-013 and
CUP 12-017, Locust Grove Water Reservoir No. 2. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries. The public hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Further discussions?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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Marshall: Just a quick comment in that I think really I appreciate the fact that this city is
suggesting maybe we hold off on the pathway in actually constructing it until we have
easements in Tuscany and whatnot until we get some agreement there. Otherwise, I
think we would actually be requiring somebody to build it at this time. I think that's in
deference to the resident requirements -- or requests and I appreciate that. I hope
someday it can flow through. The idea is that the parks are private, other people are
not allowed to come and use it, it's a private park, it's not a public park. It's only for the
residents. The idea is that these -- and this was part of the pathways project and there
is -- there is lots of movement throughout the city that we can start getting on a bicycle
and ride across town and get downtown and, you know, we don't have the river to
follow, so why don't we follow the canals and maybe the railway and things like that and
years and years of committees and public input have gone into recommending this and
we have been requiring these pathways in anybody -- from anybody that abuts the
canals and any areas that we have identified that those pathways should be and some
other people have identified where they should be. But I do appreciate that the city is
willing to hold off on that until they can get some better agreements.
Freeman: Thank you.
Marshall: One more thing. l would very much like to commend the city in what I think is
upholding the higher standard and trying to maintain that. This is not something that
most want to see in their backyard and I think the city is trying to -- we have to have
them, they are a necessary evil, and I really think that the city has been trying very hard
to bend over backwards to try to make sure that they are a good neighbor and trying to
uphold the standards that we require for everybody else and I just want to commend the
city in that regard.
Freeman: Good point. Thank you, Commissioner Marshall. Anyone else?
Rohm: Just a question I guess. Can't we approve it just as the application states and
allow for the pathway to take on its own life at such time that there is agreement?
Freeman: Commissioner Rohm, that's my understanding, too.
Rohm: Okay.
Freeman: We can go ahead and approve this as is and that will work itself out.
Rohm: Okay. Good.
O'Brien: Mr. Chair, I don't have any new information to add to this. I appreciate
Commissioner Marshall's addressing the city for the job well done. I think they are
working with the -- with the -- I call them customers -- the residents of the area very well
and I think it's been well accepted, so that much I really appreciate as well. Water --
wouldn't call it a necessary evil, I think it's -- water is a very important resource. It's the
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December 6, 2012
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building that's the necessary evil. The container. So, anyway, that's -- I'm all for it and
I'm looking forward to see this thing go through.
Freeman: All right. Can somebody give me a motion?
Marshall: Mr. Chair, after considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to City Council of file numbers AZ 12-013 and CUP 12-017 as
presented in the staff report for the hearing date of December 6, 2012, with no
modifications.
Rohm: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for AZ 12-013 and
CUP 12-017, Locust Grove Water Reservoir No. 2. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Hearing: CUP 12-019 Omni-Fit by Omni-Fit, LLC Located
535 N. Locust Grove Road Request: Conditional Use Permit for
an Indoor Recreation Facility in an I-L Zoning District
Freeman: And at this time I think we can ask Commissioner Yearsley to come back into
the chambers. Could you hear me? Can you hear me now? At this time I'd like to
open the public hearing for CUP 12-019 and CUP -- I have CUP 12-019 twice here, so
I'm confused. But it's CUP 12-019, Omni-Fit. Oh, that's why. I remember now. I'm
getting a little tired, so if everybody will give me a little break I would appreciate that.
Thank you.
And let's begin with the staff report.
Watters: Thank you, Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission. The next
application before you is a conditional use permit request. The site before you consists
of 1.4 acres of land. It's currently zoned I-L, light industrial, and it's located at 535 North
Locust Grove Road on the southwest corner of Locust Grove and Commercial. This
site is surrounded by industrial uses in an I-L zoning district. In 2005 a certificate of
zoning compliance was approved for the construction of the existing 16,000 square foot
multi-tenant building in which this use is proposed. The applicant requests approval to
operate a gym in an 8,000 square foot tenant space in an existing building in the I-L
zoning district. I'm having technical difficulties here. I'm trying to switch to the site plan,
but it's not wanting to let me for some reason. There it goes. Okay. The gym offers
personal training, cardio classes, and a small group training by appointment only. The
proposed use is classified as indoor arts, entertainment, or recreation facility in the
Unified Development Code, which requires conditional use approval in an I-L district.
The proposed use is subject to the specific use standards listed in UDC 11-4-3-2. Most
of these pertain to outdoor uses. The applicant is in compliance with these standards.
Access is provided to the site via Commercial Drive. Direct access to Locust Grove is
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December 6, 2012
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prohibited. The existing parking on the site meets UDC requirements and no exterior
modifications to the building are proposed. Written testimony was received from
Jeannie Zingg, the applicant, in agreement with the staff report and staff is
recommending approval of the proposed conditional use application with conditions in
the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions Commission may have.
Freeman: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions of staff?
Marshall: Sonya --
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: -- wasn't there just recently a -- was it a volleyball facility or --
Watters: It was a -- excuse me, Chairman Freeman, Commissioner Marshall, it was a
dance studio.
Marshall: Dance studio. That was it. Thank you. That was very close by --
Watters: Same building. Yes.
Marshall: Same building. Yes. Thank you.
Freeman: Would the applicant like to come forward? And, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Zingg: My name is Jeannie Zingg. My address is 4294 East English Drive here in
Meridian. We are looking to relocate and expand our gym, which was located at 750
South Progress Avenue, to this gym, 535 North Locust Grove and the reason is
because we are looking for a warehouse style facility for our indoor turf. We do football
training, volleyball, so we needed higher ceilings, we needed more open area, and it's
an ideal fit, because the building as it sits is perfect, we don't need to have any
modifications done to it and -- let's see. Let's see. And it's also -- you know, we are
similar in the way that the tenant before us, Red Line Recreational Place, they are a
membership based business as well. And when I say that, we are a membership, we
are by appointment only, we are not just like a regular open gym, everything is
scheduled by appointment. We do kids and adults. So, as far as parking goes, the kids
-- most of them get dropped off. Parking is not an issue. We have plenty of parking out
there. We feel that we are probably less of a hazard than Red Line was, because they
had RVs and all kinds of toys parked out front and on the side of the street. So, I guess
that's about it. Does anybody have any questions?
Freeman: Okay. Were there any questions of the applicant?
O'Brien: I have none.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
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Freeman: Okay. Thank you very much. I don't believe I have anybody signed up for
this. Was there anybody wishing to offer public testimony tonight. No? I guess we
need a motion to close the public hearing then.
Rohm: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for CUP 12-019,
Omni-Fit. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Any discussion?
O'Brien: Mr. Chair. Sonya, could you switch it back to the site view? Okay. I just
wanted to be sure I understand where -- where that is. Okay. So, the dance studio is
right at end of that on the south side? Is that right?
Wafters: It's centrally located within the building --
O'Brien: Okay.
Wafters: -- Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Okay. I wasn't quite sure when Commissioner Marshall mentioned that
thought I had it fixed in my mind, but now I do. I think it's a good fit. I think it's a good
win-win situation for everyone and I think it's a --glad to see it happen. That's all I have.
Freeman: Good. Anyone else? I agree. It looks like a good project, good use of the
building. So I need a motion.
Yearsley: Very quickly, Commissioner -- Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: In here it asks us to direct for staff to prepare Findings of Fact, but we are
approving it following this. Is --
Rohm: We just need to change the date.
Freeman: Yeah. We need to change that, so we are going to make a motion on the
item for approval or denial. If we are approving it we are also going to move that we
accept the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with it.
Yearsley: Okay.
Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 36 of 49
Freeman: And I don't believe we have any modifications that were discussed here to
those Findings of Fact, unless you noticed one that needs to be changed?
Yearsley: No.
Freeman: Okay.
Yearsley: But it says if we approve it we direct staff to prepare findings of fact for
December 20th, but yet we are going to --
Freeman: I would exclude that from our motion I believe.
Rohm: I'll just modify that. Let me make the motion, please.
Freeman: Let me add something before we make a motion. Okay. I think we are on
the same ground, so go ahead.
Baird: If you make your motion and it's in favor, then, the findings will magically appear
as your next item on your agenda.
Yearsley: Okay.
Marshall: They have to be separated.
Freeman: Yes.
Marshall: Thank you.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move
to approve file number CUP 12-019 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date
of December 6, 2012, with no modifications. I further move to direct staff to prepare
appropriate finding documents to be considered at the next item on our current agenda
before the Planning and Zoning Commission for the hearing date of December 6, 2012.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CUP 12-019,
Omni-Fit. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
12-019 Omni-Fit by Omni-Fit, LLC Located 535 N. Locust Grove
Road Request: Conditional Use Permit for an Indoor
Recreation Facility in an I-L Zoning District
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 37 of 49
Freeman: And we can check with staff and see if they have had time to prepare those.
Wafters: I have had time.
Freeman: Okay.
Marshall: That was quick. Very impressive.
Freeman: So, I do understand now we need a motion to approve the Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law on this item? So, I need one of you to do that.
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for file
number CUP 12-019.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to approve the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for approval of CUP 12-019, Omni-Fit. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Public Hearing: CUP 12-018 Tates Rents by John Day Located
at 203 S. Main Street Request: Conditional Use Permit
Approval to Operate an Equipment Rental, Sales and Service
Use in a C-G Zoning District
Freeman: At this time I would like to open the public hearing for CUP 12-018, Tate's
Rents, beginning with the staff report. Hello, Bill.
Parsons: Thank you, Commissioners, Members of the Commission. I just wanted to --
the next item on the agenda is Tate's Rents conditional use permit. This property
consists of three acres, is currently zoned C-G within the city and is located between
Main and Meridian just south of East Franklin Road. At one time this site was a future
Meridian Ford site, has been sitting vacant for several years now. To the north we have
partially developed commercial property. To the east is the speedway. To the south is
Les Schwab Tire Center and across the street to the west is multi-family residential and
a mobile home park zoned R-15. Because this was zone -- the property is zoned C-G,
the applicant is required to submit a conditional use permit for an equipment rental,
sales, and service facility. If you recall the applicant is currently operating here in
downtown Meridian and due to some of those road changes and projects, the applicant
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 38 of 49
has to relocate the facility and this is the site that they have purchased and identified to
go into. Site improvements include 4,900 square foot building addition. Also includes a
3,400 square foot canopy area central to the rental yard and attached to that would be a
washing bay. Because the applicant is expanding the site beyond a 50 percent
threshold, they are required to bring you all of their landscaping and the UDC brings that
up into the parameters of the landscape ordinance, so that would require a 35 foot
landscape buffer along Meridian Road and also along Main Street. In addition to that
they have to comply with all perimeter landscape requirements along the south
boundary and the north boundary as well. Along the west boundary and the east
boundary the applicant is proposing a six foot block masonry wall to screen, one, the
storage yard, which is located along Meridian Road, and, then, also the rental yard,
which is located here facing Main Street, as required by the UDC. Also the specific use
standards for this use does require that the applicant conduct all repair of equipment
inside of an enclosed structure. That's why they are adding this addition here to
facilitate that and do that as well. As I mentioned, this site is partially developed with an
8,000 square foot building here. That will be renovated in the future as well. Access to
this site is provided from Main Street, one along the north and one along the south
boundary and, then, also one access from Meridian Road. Originally ACHD sent over
some draft conditions and recommended closure of this curb cut here. In discussions
with the applicant -- and staff hasn't verified this with ACHD, but it's my understanding
that ACHD will act on this at a later date, but they are recommending that this be an exit
only access point, so there will be -- this plan doesn't reflect it, but in the future they will
have to reconstruct that current access point exit only and shrink it down to a 20 foot
access point moving forward. And, then, also here are some of the elevations that they
are proposing. The current structure is made out of metal. The applicant is proposing
similar building materials as the existing structure, but this metal siding will have a
textured finish and, then, also the new addition will have a stone wainscot as well. The
applicant will have to come back with a certificate of zoning compliance and
administrative design review application and in doing so we will look at that and
evaluate it against the Meridian design review standards as well. Going back to the site
plan, I did want to mention that this site plan does depict a display area along Main
Street for the specific use standards that is prohibited. The applicant can seek
alternative -- excuse me -- seek alternative compliance and ask for reduction in that
buffer to allow for a display area and, again, that could happen at the time that they
submit the certificate of zoning compliance application as well. So, really, that is a
director determination and a staff level approval at that point. Staff has not received any
written testimony on this application. At this time I would stand for any questions you
have.
Freeman: Thank you, Bill. Any questions of staff?
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I do.
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Bill, I'm sorry, you lost me a little bit. Talking about an ingress-egress right-in
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 39 of 49
only at the northeast corner. I see only ingress-egress here on the south boundary both
to Meridian and to Main.
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Marshall, this will be an exit only, so folks
coming into the facility will turn on Main Street -- going northbound on Main Street will
turn and enter through the parking area and, then, there will be an exit here in the
future. Right now it --
Marshall: They are not showing landscaping there.
Parsons: They are now. This site plan doesn't reflect that change and we don't have a
hundred percent verification from ACHD, so maybe the applicant can discuss his -- his
meeting with ACRD and kind of provide some clarity on that for you.
Marshall: All right. Thank you.
Parsons: Thank you.
Freeman: Anyone else? Would the applicant like to come forward? Please state your
name and address for the record, please.
Day: Good evening, Chairman and Commissioners. My name is John Day with DHE
Architecture, 604 North 16th, Boise, Idaho. 83702. And we are before you requesting
conditional use permit for a Tate's rental facility to be located at 203 South Main Street
in Meridian, Idaho. We do recognize that there are some specific use standards or
requirements from the City of Meridian and we are -- have worked with the city, we
understand those, and we are more willing to abide by them all and so at this point I
would open up to any questions and if you do have some specific questions regarding
ACHD, I would be happy to answer those at this time.
Freeman: Okay. Maybe you could start there, because we had a question.
Day: Yes. So, as you probably -- at the site right now there are two curb cuts on Main
Street, one on the south side of the location -- the property and one on the north side of
the location. Original discussions with ACRD, they had determined that we were to
close that curb cut. It is their policy to limit access onto an arterial street or main streets
like this and we met with them Tuesday morning after we received their preliminary
report and we discussed with them that due to the nature this facility the people that
come and go from there, that we thought that this would be creating a serious hazard,
because of -- to put it bluntly, we have a lot of amateurs with trailers and large trucks
and so we would prefer to keep that north curb cut open to keep the flow of the traffic
and through the picking up of equipment and through the propane services to keep that
flow in and out and not congested, because not only do we have an existing building,
but, then, we have an 35 foot landscape buffer which really pinched down and
constricted the front of the building and so we met with them Tuesday morning, we
pleaded our case, she called me back shortly thereafter and said that they would be
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 40 of 49
supporting our keeping the north -- northern curb cut open and that they would go in
front of their commission the first of January on consent agenda and recommend
approval on that, so -- and now if they were to change that opinion, you know, we would
pursue whatever we need to do with them, but right now we have received preliminary
approval and we think that it will go that way.
Freeman: Sure. Having been one of those amateurs I think I understand why they
agreed so readily.
Day: Yes.
Freeman: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. I don't have anybody signed up to
offer public testimony. Was there anybody wishing to? Okay. Thank you very much.
Are there any questions before we close the public hearing? Could I get motion to close
the public hearing?
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: I move that we close the public hearing on CUP 12-018.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on CUP 12-018,
Tate's Rents. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Any further discussion?
O'Brien: I like it. Glad they are moving. Easier to get into for sure.
Marshall: I have to admit I am typically very much against additional access points, but
the minute the amateurs with trailers and wanting them to flow through as opposed to
back up, I understand quickly that that could be beneficial for everyone.
Freeman: It's good to see that the land is going to a good use in the middle of our city
with all of the new changes that are going on with our circulation, so I commend your
project. I'm for it, too. I need a motion, though, from somebody besides myself.
Yearsley: Mr. Chair?
Marshall: Oh. Go ahead.
Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 41 of 49
file number CUP 12-018 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of
December 6, 2012, with no modifications. I further move to direct staff to prepare an
appropriate findings document to be considered at the next Planning and Zoning
Commission hearing on December 20th, 2012.
Marshall: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CUP 12-018,
Tate's Rents. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
H. Public Hearing: PP 12-014 Karmelle by Providence
Management, LLC Located East of S. Eagle Road and South of
E. Victory Road Request: Preliminary Plat Approval of 43
Residential Lots and 12 Common Lots on 16.13 Acres in an R-
4Zoning District
Freeman: Last item on the agenda is PP 12-014. I'd like to open the public hearing for
that and begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The next item is
Karmelle Subdivision. It is located on the south side of East Victory Road, east of South
Eagle Road. This property is currently zoned R-4 within the city and consist of 16.1
acres of land. It was originally annexed in 2006 and platted as part of the Harcourt
Subdivision. With the approval of that property -- annexation of that property a
development agreement was not required and the plat has -- the old plat has since
expired. One thing I would like to note to you as well, if you look on the zoning map
here on the left-hand side, there are a couple properties there were sold off as a result
of the developer trying to hold onto the property and are no longer part of this
development tonight. It would be this parcel here and, then, this five acre piece along
the south side of East Falcon Drive as well. So, surrounding this site is Sutherland
Farms to the north and it's zoned R-4 currently within the city as well and, then, a
majority of this property around here is still county residences zoned RUT and most of
these lots were planned back -- were platted back in the county in the -- I think early
'70s with five acre lots and these are just several of those lots being subdivided within
the city as well. So, here is the plat that the applicant is proposing. It consists of 43
residential lots and 12 common lots. Access from this plat is from -- one from Locust
Grove -- or, excuse me, Victory Road that aligns with Sutherland Farms here and, then,
the second public street access is from East Falcon Drive along the south boundary as
well and, then, the applicant is proposing two stub streets along the east boundary for
future connectivity. I'd also mention to you that density for this plat is 2.67 acres -- or
units to the acre, which is consistent with the low density designation in the
Comprehensive Plan and that minimum lot size is 8,900 square feet, all the way up to
10,600 square feet, and all of the lots do comport to the dimensional standards of the
R-4 zone as well. If -- go back to the aerial here you can see there are several
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 42 of 49
structures that exist on the property. The applicant is proposing to remove those during
the construction of the subdivision on the site, with the exception of this one, which is
currently platted -- or it is going to be platted around. The landscape plan, I'm sorry, it
was multiple pages, so I will try to do my best here. Along this street here is the
required 25 foot landscape buffer. This is actually in excess of what the code requires
as well. Then they have some street buffers here. A large central open space here with
a tot lot as their amenity and, then, there is a 7,200 square foot lot here with an amenity,
a sitting area amenity here, and, then, the rest of the landscape areas as just, basically,
remnant pieces that would be landscaping, kind of just defined street names as well.
would mention to you that some of these open space lots do not count towards
qualifying open space in the UDC, so the staff report does reflect that, they are deficient
.10 acres of open space, which equates to roughly 4,300 square feet. I have had
discussions with the applicant's representative and I think we have come up with some
work able solutions that we can handle at the time of final platting. So, there are no
changes for you this evening to discuss, but I think we are all on the same page as to
how we need to move forward. One thing that I did want to mention to you is that there
are two lots here that front on East Falcon Drive. This plan does not show any street
improvements along that roadway. Staff does not have a staff report from ACHD as to
what they are going to require there. To my knowledge they are going to require the
street frontage improvements there. The one thing that I did want to mention to
Commission that because this application -- this property is not part of the plat and we
have no mechanism to require those improvements, it will be a remnant parcel zoned
R-4 out here, with no services to the property at this time. The applicant will stub to that
property with their subdivision improvements, but the city cannot require that -- that
homeowner to connect at this time. The applicant has provided some sample
elevations. You can see it's a mix of materials, highlighted entries, covered porches.
Staff is recommending a conditional approval that they comply with these elevations.
Staff has received written testimony from the adjacent neighbor to the west Mr. Bob
Aldridge. I believe you have his concerns in your packet this evening. He wants to
make sure his water rights are protected and that the applicant will -- hopefully the
applicant is willing to construct a beige six foot vinyl fence along the western subdivision
boundary. He's stated in his letter that he lets his neighbors use that as a horse pasture
and he's fearful if there is a wooden fence there the horses would gnaw on that. So, I
believe he has discussed these conditions or these provisions with the applicant. I don't
know if the applicant is in agreement with them. I'm sure they can add some light on
that, but I will let them address that as well. And, then, we did receive verbal from the
applicant, they are in agreement with the conditions in the staff report. Other than
written testimony from Bob, staff is recommending approval and at this time I would
stand for any questions you have.
Freeman: Thank you. Questions?
Marshall: This -- excuse me. Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 43 of 49
Marshall: Bill, the C-C property to the left, is there any plans for that currently? I mean
it's already zoned. So, is there --
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Marshall, that -- if
you -- that was the Shops At Victory I believe and it was subdivided back in 2010. The
plat is still active through a time extension. One thing that I did fail to mention that the
applicant is proposing a pedestrian connection to that development as part of this
development and it's part of the pond lot here. You can see the pathway is right there
and that's generally consistent to the pathway connection that was provided from the
commercial development as well. So, we get some of that connectivity with that
development as well and at one time -- I believe it was Walgreen's was looking to
develop on that site with a couple of additional pad sites.
Marshall: I'd just be curious to recall what all the buffering is between here and the C-C,
because you have got -- you have got lots backing up to this. The C-C is not developed
and these lots could develop first and, then, suddenly we have already got an approved
C-C development that could develop right behind them without their ever knowing. So,
I'm kind of curious as to what's going in right behind this potentially.
Friedman: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Marshall, as Bill
stated, we have a live plat on that right now and I believe there is a development
agreement on that. It's highly likely that given the state of flux on that property and
nobody really knows, including the parties that are responsible for it -- I don't have a
crystal ball, but the way things have been going there is a very good chance you would
probably see some form of a development agreement modification and if that is the
case that would require a public hearing before the City Council with appropriate notice
to adjacent property owners.
Marshall: Got you. Thank you.
Parsons: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Yes. Bill.
Parsons: If I could elaborate on that for you as well. As I stated earlier, this property
was annexed before that C-C was, so more than likely when we evaluated that C-C
zoning we probably required that -- that buffering between residential zone and that
commercial property as well.
Marshall: Thank you.
Freeman: Any other questions of staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to come
forward? Please state your name and address for the record. And that will be for both
of you, if you're both going to speak.
Wonders: Good evening, Commissioners. Scott Wonders with JUB. 250 South
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 44 of 49
Beachwood Avenue, Suite 201, Boise. 83709. And with me is Zack Evans.
Evans: Zach Evans. 688 East Giant Saguaro, Meridian, Idaho. 83646.
Wonders: I appreciate Bill doing an overview for the project. Zach would be here to
answer. He's the owner and builder -- part builder to you for the project. So, I'd like to
go over a couple items. I did meet with staff yesterday in regards to the open space
requirement. I think with a few minor tweaks on some of the open space we shouldn't
have any problems with meeting the ten percent and, you know, without really any --
any significant or any really changes to the lot layouts. In regards to the Bob's letter,
Bob Aldridge's letter, we are in agreement to putting up the vinyl fencing and the only
caveat I have on the irrigation is we will provide the access and everything to that, but
it's -- I just need to make sure that it's subject to Boise Project Board of Control approval
that whatever we do to provide access to him that we get their concurrence and if they
require him to do something else that's kind out of our control. So, other than that we
are more than happy to work with Bob on putting that in, providing that access that he
needs for the irrigation. So -- and just -- we just have to go through the Boise Project
Board of Control for their approval and I just want to make sure that if they require of
him something additional that -- you know, that involves different -- the project and Bob
to work out. So, I can't promise something that the board may require of him. That's --
believe really don't have any .control over. So, it's just a minor deal there. As far as
Falcon Drive, we did propose and request from ACHD that we go with a rural section,
basically a borrow ditch. Falcon Drive currently is a rural road. It doesn't have curb or
gutter, it's just -- basically you have a borrow ditch on both sides and we wanted to
maintain that. We haven't received ACHD's staff report yet. I believe that they wanted
us to go ahead and put the curb and gutter in. Our request was to leave it as a rural
section, similar to what's out there right now. That was our original request. Obviously,
we will work with ACHD once we get that report and we have significant -- we have
enough room on that frontage if we have to put in the curb and gutter and sidewalk, we
won't have to change the site plan at all. We have met with a lot of the neighbors
surrounding the project. We have three neighbors, Bob is one of them, and, then, we
have the one that's, obviously, impacted the most in the middle, that's the -- kind of what
I call the remnant piece and we realize as we go through the engineering and design
process we will be working with them closely on -- on where we provide stubs for
utilities, et cetera, and, then, basically, I have gone over with the adjacent property
owner to the south as where our fencing is going to go and their main concern was
whether their trees would be impacted or not and I think for the most part I don't think
we are going to have any significant issues with that as well. So, with that, you know,
I'm here to answer any
other questions. We concur with all of staffs recommendations of approval and with
that, if Zach has anything to add.
Freeman: Did you have anything to add? Are there any questions? No? No
questions, so thank you. I did have one person sign up to offer testimony. Harold
Krasinski. And, please, state your name and address for the record.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 45 of 49
Krasinski: My name is Harold Krasinski at 3475 East Falcon Drive. I'm -- that's the
property directly to the south and as Scott mentioned, we have talked about the
property line. We did get a little bit of a surprise when it was surveyed that the property
line was actually on the other side of a fence that had been on our north side, but I think
we probably can work those things out and one of the things we had discussed at our
neighborhood meeting with Scott and Zach was similar vinyl fence that what Bob
Aldridge's is asking for and, hopefully, we can come to some agreement to put a
consistent fence line around the property, so that we get a little bit of buffer. So, in
general, don't really have -- fairly neutral on the project and I'm assuming they will be
agreeable to work with us on any details along the property line. One thing I hadn't
thought of until everyone was talking about pathways is there is -- on the project they
show -- there is a pathway shown. I think mostly it's going along the McDonald Lateral,
as we are going to bury that -- yeah. Right about in there. Thank you. And I'm not sure
what happens along a right of way like that. Currently all of the properties were
originally pastures, they are all fenced off and I'm just curious about how that would
terminate at our property line where the lateral goes through, just so we don't wind up
getting a thoroughfare of people -- because our property is actually split by the lateral,
McDonald Lateral. We have roughly three-quarters of an acre on the north side and,
then, the rest of our acres is on the south. I'm just hoping there is some good way to
solve that problem, so it doesn't become a thoroughfare for dirt bikes, mountain bikes,
whatever. So, I don't know if that's something that's part of their development or if that's
something we need to work out with the irrigation project.
Freeman: Okay. We will have staff address that.
Krasinski: Very good. Thank you. I think that's pretty much all I have to say, unless
anyone has any questions.
Freeman: Any questions? All right. Thank you very much.
Krasinski: Thank you.
Freeman: Was there anybody else wishing to offer testimony? Please state your name
and address for the record.
Travis: Kenneth Travis. 3432 Falcon Drive. I'm the person who is impacted the most,
having the property that's surrounded. I'm neutral. I don't know whether it's going to be
good or bad, but just wanted to express some concerns just for the record. Our well is
not on our property, it's just south of it. That might be good for maybe the open area.
We have the deed to the well. And the fences around our property could really make a
significant difference. For example, if we have a six foot vinyl fence to the south we
open the front door and we will be staring at this fence. I also noticed on the plat that
there is -- it looked like a tot playground right next to our property line. We have a
pond there. We have a dog. So, these are just concerns that we have that we -- the
devil is in the details. So, depending on how well we work with the subdivision it will
really hurt us. Thank you.
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 46 of 49
Freeman: Was there anyone else? Okay. Before we close the public hearing I would
like to ask staff to address some of the questions we just heard about. The path.
Parsons: Sure. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that -- one thing I failed to
mention in my overview of the project is if it's on a lateral it is currently -- it's an open
canal that runs through the property this direction. The applicant will be relocating that
and tiling that and it goes through to pond lot here, goes along the open space lot here,
cuts through that central open space and, then, terminates down through here on this
common lot here. There is no pathway planned for that. I mean it makes no sense to
get anything at this point, because we just don't know how that's going to develop in the
future. There is no -- there is nothing designated on the master pathway plan for any
connectivity there. So, there is nothing planned for that site. Actually, the landscape
plan omitted that lot and it's been conditioned that they provide landscaping details with
the final plan. So, we can address that, but staff is not recommending a micropath of
pedestrian connection to that gentlemen's property.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you. And the applicant, if you would like to come forward and
address anything that you have heard. Name again.
Wonders: Yeah. Scott Wonders with JUB.
Freeman: Thank you.
Wonders: Yeah. Bill is correct. We -- with the restrictions that the irrigation company
puts on in regards to those easements, they don't want trees in there, so we will
probably end up just having grass and shrubbery in there within that easement, but
certainly no pathway. We wouldn't want to promote pedestrian traffic along the irrigation
canal. Fencing -- we are going to be consistent with the fencing material throughout the
subdivision, so we will continue the -- obviously, the vinyl fencing around the perimeter.
And, then, obviously, we can work with the adjacent property owners again, like I said
previously, once we get into the details of the design to make sure that, you know, we
become a good neighbor, too, and we provide notification of what we are planning on
doing, so --
Freeman: Okay.
Wonders: And I think I have addressed everything, so if you had any questions I --
Freckleton: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Where did the Mr. Chair come from? Commissioner O'Brien?
Freckleton: Right here.
Freeman: Oh. Go ahead.
Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 47 of 49
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman and Scott, if I could address a question to Scott with regard
to the gentleman's testimony with regard to his well being outside of his boundaries of
his property and off into what would be the subdivision. I was wondering how you're
going to address that and what kind of plan you have there.
Wonders: Yeah. Absolutely. One of the things we are going to try to do is -- or not try.
One of the things we will be doing is, obviously, researching, you know, the location of
those and whether, you know, we would still have a viable buildable lot based on the
restrictions that we have for where that well is presently located. I don't have an exact
location of that well right now. I have a legal description that goes around it, but I don't
know where the actual well is. So, we will work with that and we will try to obviously if
we have some issues with a buildable lot issue, then, we will address it at that time. But
even sewer -- obviously, we are going to be stubbing sewer on two -- or having sewer
on both sides of the lot, so we will try to figure out where the most appropriate location
is to provide that sewer lateral, so that they can connect to it in the future, as well as
water, for that matter, to connect to city -- city services and that may be the alternative
that we go with with the water if the well is, you know impacting -- if we can come to an
agreement with the adjacent property owner to maybe have that connected to city
services as well, so --
Freckleton: Mr. Chair, just a follow up if I might. Sorry.
Freeman: It's a new voice. I don't know where to look for it.
Freckleton: I apologize. With regard to the sewer stub and the potential for water there,
too, city ordinance does require that if services are provided outside the city limits that
the parcel that they are provided to have to annex into the city. So, that's just
something to keep in mind. I know this parcel is outside and there wasn't a desire to
come in at this point in time. So, just throw that out.
Wonders: I believe I -- Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is annexed into the city. So, it
is part of the city. It was part of the original -- it was part of the original Harcourt
Subdivision and, then, when the previous owner had financial issues it was part of --
Freckleton: I stand corrected.
Wonders: It is part of it, so I hope I have clarified that.
Freckleton: You did. Thank you.
O'Brien: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Thank you. I have one quick question. Just to verify the six foot tall baige
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 48 of 49
fence, is that going to be a privacy fence or open?
Wonders: Yeah. It would be solid.
O'Brien: Solid. Okay. All right. Just wanted to verify that. Thank you.
Freeman: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you very much.
Wonders: Thank you.
Freeman: I need a motion, then, to close the public hearing.
O'Brien: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
Freeman: I need to find where I'm at. I have a motion and a second to close the public
hearing for PP 12-014, Karmelle Subdivision. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Discussion. Who would like to start? Nobody would like to start.
Commissioner Yearsley would like to start.
Yearsley: You know, I think it's kind of a -- not a difficult situation, but trying to work with
the different homeowners, I think they are -- it sounds like they are in good faith trying to
alleviate their concern. I personally would recommend the urban section on those two
lots on Falcon just because I know having to go back and do it at a later date is really
hard for those and so to have it done now just makes it a lot cleaner personally. But I
will let ACHD make that decision. So -- but I think it sounds good.
Freeman: Thank you. Anyone else?
O'Brien: I don't have anything to add to that.
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: At the very least I do like that the pond is on that northwest corner up against
the C-C. That does leave two lots that will abut it, but I'm in hopes that the DA that
exists on that property now will provide some buffer to those lots. I don't like to see
those have commercial behind them that they didn't know about. And I do like the idea
that there is some connectivity there that people in the neighborhood could walk across.
I also like the fact that that pathway headed off to the south is not going to connect to
somebody else's property. Since it's not a pathway at all, but simply an easement. I'm
for it.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 6, 2012
Page 49 of 49
Freeman: A motion?
Yearsley: Mr. Chairman?
Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to the City Council of file No. PP 12-014 as presented in the staff
report for the hearing date of December 6, 2012, with no modifications.
O'Brien: Second.
Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for PP 12-014,
Karmelle Subdivision. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: Thank you very much. One more motion.
Marshall: Mr. Chair?
Freeman: Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: I move we adjourn.
Rohm: Second.
Yearsley: Second.
Freeman: A motion and several seconds to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Freeman: We are adjourned. Thank you very much.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:35 P.M.
(AUDIO REC DING ON FILE O THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
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