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2012 12-06Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting December 6, 2012 Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of December 6, 2012, was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Scott Freeman. Members Present: Chairman Scott Freeman, Commissioner Joe Marshall, Commissioner Steven Yearsley, Commissioner Michael Rohm and Commissioner Tom O'Brien. Others Present: Machelle Hill, Ted Baird, Pete Friedman, Sonya Wafters, Bill Parsons, Terri Ricks, Kyle Radek, Bruce Freckleton, Warren Steward and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance: Roll-call X Steven Yearsley X Tom O'Brien X Scott Freeman X Joe Marshall X Michael Rohm -Chairman Freeman: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I'd like to call to order the regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for this date of December 6, 2012, and let's begin with roll call Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda Freeman: Thank you, Machelle. First item is the adoption of the agenda and I do have one change to the agenda this evening. Item 4-I, I believe it is, the sign code text amendment, ZOA 12-003, will be opened for the sole purpose of continuing it to the next regularly scheduled meeting on December 20th. Other than that, I need a motion to adopt the agenda as amended. Rohm: So moved. Marshall: Second. Rohm: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 3: Consent Agenda Approved A. Approve Minutes of November 15, 2012 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 2 of 49 B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 12-015 Meridian High School Addition by Joint School District No. 2 Located at 1900 W. Pine Avenue Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval to Construct a New 40,000 Square Foot Addition to Meridian High School Freeman: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. We have two items on the Consent Agenda this evening. First item is the approval of the minutes of the November 15th, 2012, Planning and Zoning Commission meeting and the second item is the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for approval of CUP 12-015, Meridian High School addition. Could I get a motion to accept the Consent Agenda? Rohm: So moved. Marshall: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4: Action Items I. Public Hearing: ZOA 12-003 Sign Code Text Amendment by City of Meridian Community Development Planning Division Request: Amend Sections of the City's Current Standards for Signs Freeman: Okay. At this time I would like to open Item 4-I, the public hearing for ZOA 12-003, sign code text amendment by the City of Meridian, for the sole purpose of continuing it to the next regularly scheduled meeting on December 20th. Do I need a motion to do that or do I just need -- we need a motion. Somebody give me one. Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move that we continue ZOA 12-003 to the next regularly scheduled Planning and Zoning Commission meeting of 12/20/12. O'Brien: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to continue Item ZOA 12-003, sign code text amendment, to the next regularly scheduled meeting on December 20th, 2012. All those in favor say aye. Opposed. Motion carried. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Okay. Before I open the first item -- our Action Items tonight, I just want to explain to everybody, since we have a full audience it seems, how the process goes. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 3 of 49 We will open the public hearing for each item and we will begin with the staff report and they will present to us the application and their findings and, then, we will give anybody that wishes to offer public testimony a chance to testify. If you are here to testify on an item you can have up to three minutes to come forward and -- and give us your opinion. If you are here as a spokesperson for several people you have up to ten minutes and when we get to a couple of these items I will actually ask if there is somebody that wishes to be representative for a group of people and have them speak first. After we hear -- I'm sorry. I skipped a step. The applicant is going to come forward after the staff report and he is given 15 minutes to present his application, then, we will take the public testimony. You will be given three minutes as an individual or ten minutes if you're a spokesperson for a group. After which time the applicant, then, will have another ten minute opportunity to come forth and respond to anything that he might wish to respond to. At that time we will close the public testimony. The Commissioners will deliberate and, hopefully, we will be able to come up with a recommendation to City Council on each one of those items. A. Continued Public Hearing from November 15, 2012: Request for a Street Name Change from N. Englewood Way to A new Name to be Decided Upon by Affected Residents OR the Spelling Changed to Inglewood by The City of Meridian Community Development Department .Denied B. Continued Public Hearing from November 15, 2012: Request for a Street Name Change from N. Englewood Place to a New Name to be Decided Upon by Affected Residents OR the Spelling Changed to Inglewood by the City of Meridian Community Development Department Freeman: So, the first item on the agenda is the continued public hearing from November 15th, 2012, request for a new street name change from North Englewood Way to a new name and also Item B is a continued public hearing from November 15th, 2012, request for a street name change from North Englewood Place to a new name. And let's begin with the staff report. Ricks: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The Ada County Street Name Committee has been notified by the 911 call center of their ongoing concern regarding potential emergency response delays for the sound alike street names of North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place. As you can see by the vicinity map overhead, this is located just south of Ustick Road and west of Ten Mile Road. Meridian's North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place are both spelled with an E, while South Inglewood Road in Boise is spelled with an I. Complicating the dispatch situation further is the existence of four blocks of duplicate address ranges in both cities. Due to confusion surrounding the above street names, a 22 minute delay in emergency response services was reported for a domestic violence call needed in Boise, but routed to Meridian. After internal reviews by the call center, the present dispatching policies and the implementation of new policies designed to lessen the confusion with sound Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 4 of 49 alike or duplicate street names, the concern remains for potential delays in response time when critical emergency services are needed in these areas. After consideration of other proposals and allowing that in-house procedural changes have been made within the call center, it is still the recommendation of the Ada County Street Name Committee that the Englewood street names be changed due to life and safety issues. The recommended name changes for these streets are as follows: North Englewood Place to North Woodcrest Place. North Englewood Way to North Woodcrest Way. The committee's recommendation to change the Meridian street name of North Englewood Place and North Englewood Way, as opposed to changing the Boise street name of South Inglewood Road comes after a review of the following factors: South Inglewood Road in Boise was first dedicated in 1955 with the Country Club Manor Subdivision and extended in 1956 when Country Club Manor No. 2 was platted. Thirty-nine homes are addressed along this street. North Englewood in Meridian was first dedicated in 1996 with the Englewood Creek Estates Subdivision and extended in 1998 when Englewood Creek Estates No. 2 was platted. An additional section was dedicated in 1998 when the Cherry Lake -- excuse me -- the Lake at Cherry Lane Number No. 7 Subdivision was recorded. Forty homes are addressed along these streets. Each have a similar number of homes affected and taking into consideration the existence of Boise's Inglewood for 40 years prior to the dedication of Meridian's Englewood streets, the committee recommends the Meridian street names be changed. Prior to the originally scheduled public hearing date of October 18th of this year a neighborhood meeting was held at City Hall for all residents affected by the proposed street name change. The purpose of the meeting was to provide a less formal atmosphere for the residents to discuss their concerns, as well as the opportunity to provide input for the proposed new street name. A representative from the 911 call center was on hand to discuss dispatch limitations and to raise awareness of the potential for future emergency response delays along these streets. Twelve residents were in attendance. All in attendance were opposed to the potential street name change and no recommendation for alternate street names were received. A petition of opposition was signed by residents of Englewood and subsequently submitted to staff. An additional letter was sent by Mike Munkres, the Fairway HOA president, one of two HOAs in that area, along with the request that it be distributed to the Commission. These documents have been included in your packets. In ongoing correspondence and discussion between staff and representatives of Englewood, the committee sent a list of potential new names for the residents review and all were opposed. The name Fairway was initially submitted by the residents, but opposed by the committee due to an existing Fairway located within the county. In our last correspondence the name Woodcrest was suggested by a resident and approved by the committee. Following tonight -- following me tonight we have with us the MSAG coordinator with the Emergency Communications Bureau to give us the perspective of the 911 call center when dealing with sound alike street names. This concludes my presentation and I will stand for any questions. Freeman: Thank you. Are there any questions of staff at this time? I assume you will be coming up to the microphone, so, please, state your name and address in the microphone when you get there. Thanks. By the way, I understand we have audio recordings this evening. A CD. I don't know what the sound quality is going to be, so Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 5 of 49 would appreciate it if everybody was really quiet, just in case it's pretty faint, I would like everybody to have a chance to hear it. Britz: Hi here, my name is Glenda Britz. I'm the MSAG coordinator with the Ada County Sheriffs Department. I work with the Emergency Communications Bureau representing the dispatch center. I have worked in the dispatch center for over 26 years now as a dispatcher and also working with the dispatch personnel and I can tell you that I have taken several calls from hysterical callers who sometimes are very difficult to understand and sometimes they are very difficult to deal with. In several cases the caller is pretty difficult to understand, because of their accents, possibly because of screaming, crying, or they may be on a cell phone standing outside and the wind's blowing really hard and it's going through their cell phone. Sometimes it's impossible or nearly impossible to confirm a caller's address. We had an incident that happened in November of 2011 that dealt with and brought the Englewood to our attention. A 911 call came into the dispatch center from a woman who indicated that her daughter and husband were fighting. The mother was not on location with the daughter. She gave the dispatcher the address on Englewood. The dispatcher taking the call spelled Inglewood with an E, which routed the call when it was entered to Meridian, when, in fact, the actual location it was occurring at was Inglewood in Boise. The delayed response to getting to the actual location of the incident was 22 minutes. Fortunately there was no one injured and there was no arrest that was made with this incident. I would like to give just a brief explanation of how our CAD system or computer -- excuse me -- computer aided dispatch works to give you an idea in how we verify addresses. In order to verify an address our CAD system refers to a database of standardized locations, including street address ranges and names, such as Englewood 2700 block, or commonplace names, such as St. Alphonsus, and intersections, Fairview-Eagle. This insures that the locations are validated within a valid block number range. CAD also references an alias file to allow for substitute names for streets. These predefined alias names generally serve three purposes. Abbreviated entry, frequently used names, for example of that is Fairview, so that the dispatcher doesn't have to type out Fairview all the way, they can use F-R-V as an abbreviation and that's usually done for long street names. Streets that are frequently misspelled and might have difficulty matching with real GEO file database. A street name that changes. For example, you have Highway 16, which is the official state highway name, but at the same time you have Emmett Highway, which is the Ada County name. We can alias Highway 16, so if I type in an address on Highway 16 it would verify to Emmett. The street naming match process examines any alias names after it searches for real street names. Therefore, if the hundred block we are looking for existence in the real street name file, that is the address the system picks. Herein lies the problem, because Englewood with an E in Meridian and Inglewood with an I in Boise, both exist in the center line database in the real street file. If a dispatcher types in Englewood with an E the system will verify it to Englewood in Meridian. The only way the street name alias file works is when there is no overlapping address hundred blocks. It will always search for the real street name first and our data that we receive is received from the Ada County assessor centerline database and I would like to note that with Inglewood and Englewood, Boise and Meridian, that we have address ranges that overlap 2700 block to roughly the 2900 Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 6 of 49 block. To my knowledge the call that I described where we took 22 minutes to respond to is the only emergency call on Inglewood that has resulted in incorrect routing, but that one call is one call too many. That call could have ended in tragedy and at this point I would like to bring up the fact that since this incident has happened and since the neighborhood meeting we had with the residents on Englewood, that the dispatch manager has changed policy on the way dispatchers handled and verify calls and addresses. Dispatchers are expected to not only repeat the address and phone numbers, they are also required to confirm a minimum of one cross street, the city name, and confirm the spelling of the street if there is any further questions that are needed. This change will help confirm when we are sending assistance to the correct location on routine calls. However, not all calls, as I stated before, can be confirmed. have a couple of tapes that I want to play for you. Both these calls that we are going to play came into the dispatch center within the past week and a half. This situation's happened more than even I can tell you. The first call we are going to play was played on December 25th, came into our center at 6:30 in the morning. If you will go ahead and play that, please. (Audio recording played.) Britz: The phone call was disconnected. The dispatcher entered a call to what he thought was the correct address to what he could pick out from that call. Time delay for entry of the call was one minute, because he was trying to figure out the address. After call entry we need to add another four minutes to that call to actually locate the address. The dispatcher was not able to confirm any information as far as an address goes and I can tell you right now the dispatcher did a wonderful job. They ended up getting the correct street. They were in the correct hundred block. They were a few houses off, but the police were able to find the person and thankfully everything was okay. Now -- and, fortunately, on this call -- and these calls have nothing to do with Englewood, these calls were not from Englewood, but I can tell you that the difficulty that he had -- and, fortunately, he was able to pick out that street name -- it is not a sound alike to any other street. The second call that we are going to play actually has two parts to it, because the phone was disconnected and, then, the person ended up calling back. This call was received on December the 4th at 3:58 in the morning. You want to go ahead and play those. (Audio recording played.) Britz: On this second call -- when the first call came in from the female they were unable to obtain any address whatsoever. This was called in by a cell phone. They were able to do a ping, retransmit on the cell phone by GPS coordinates and they entered a call and sent the call using those coordinates they received from the ping on the phone. The female -- she called back a second time and I can tell you from the first call to the second call was four minutes later. Four minutes later and we still hadn't found her. She called back, because no help had arrived. It took three dispatchers listening to that second call to obtain an address to where she was at. I did clip the address out of that, because of privacy. She was able to give an address, but it took Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 7 of 49 three dispatchers to understand that address and I can tell you that first location they sent the police to was three to four blocks away from where the actual incident was happening. So, by the time -- the time lapse from the first call to the first officer on scene was approximately seven minutes and, actually, with everything considered from what you could hear, that was pretty good time. This call was devastating. We all say it will never happen to us. I'm sure that's exactly what she said before this tragedy hit her. These two calls are really good examples of how at times it is impossible to confirm an address with the caller and it happens more than you realize. Fortunately both audios that you just heard were streets that did not have sound alike names and resources were finally sent to the correct locations. The dispatchers you heard were doing everything they could possibly do to locate these victims. What would have been the result if the streets did have the same and sound alike street names? Well, in the case of Englewood, with an E versus an I, it would probably be determined by how I, as the dispatcher, spelled Englewood. I can't confirm if you're in Meridian. I can't conform if you're in Boise. What do I do? Do I send to both locations? I don't know there is two locations. In the instance where sound alike names are spelled alike I would get a command telling me, oh, you have this street in this city and you have this street in this city, now what do I do? I have two selections or three selections of sound alike names spelled alike. Do I pick one, hope it's the right one, or do I send to all locations -- sending resources to both locations hoping to find the person. That could possibly be a lot of resources. What are the chances of these things happening? You tell me. I don't want to take the chance myself. Therefore, my recommendation to this Commission is to vote in favor of this street name change. A question we often ask is -- that we are often asked of dispatchers is in an emergency can I be found. The answer is yes. However, this is not the question you should be asking, but rather you should ask when will I be found. With that I will stand for any questions. Freeman: Thank you. Any questions of the applicant at this time? No? Okay. Thank you very much. Britz: Thank you. Freeman: Okay. At this time I will start taking public testimony and I do have several people that have signed up in the back. If you haven't signed up and you wish to offer public testimony you will get an opportunity. I would like to first see if anyone in the audience who wanted to speak on this item who intends to speak for a group as a spokesperson. Let's start with you. Go ahead and come forward. Please state your name and address for the record. Could I see a show of hands for who he is speaking for? Okay. Thank you. Munkres: Hi. My name is Richard M. Munkres or Mike Munkres. I live at 2656 North Englewood Way. I'm also speaking as president of the Fairways homeowners association. I'd like to call your attention -- although I'm speaking for a group, I think can keep it to around three minutes, so maybe that will help. Freeman: You can have four. Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 8 of 49 Munkres: Okay. I'd like to call your attention to two documents, which should be in the staff report prepared for you by Terri Ricks. The first is our signed petition submitted by e-mail on November 9th. I have the petition with the original signatures with me tonight if you care to see it. I will hold onto it if you want to see it later. Freeman: We have copies. Munkres: The signatures on that petition represent 20 of the 22 residents on North Englewood Way in the Fairways and one hundred percent of those that we were able to contact. The second document is a letter from the Fairways homeowners association, dated November 30th. This letter outlines our reasons for requesting that you deny this application. This letter was also submitted by a-mail and I provided the clerk with signed copies that you should have before you now. As stated in our letter we are requesting that you deny this application for two reasons. First, we believe this change will have a significant and negative impact on our residents. Secondly, we believe this change is unwarranted and unjustified. The Fairways is a senior community. Most of the people who reside on North Englewood Way are in their 70s and 80s. Some are in their 90s. The handout that was given to us at the neighborhood meeting on October. 15th listed the information regarding change of address for drivers licenses and registration, mortgages and loan documents, legal documents, banking documents, and periodicals. While this seems fairly simple to younger professional people, it's going to seem overwhelming to many -- to many of our residents. Some will not be able to make these changes without assistance. As explained to us by the representative from the Ada County dispatch at the meeting on October 15th and again in their presentation to you tonight, this change is being requested because of a single incident of miscommunication by a dispatcher in a 911 caller from outside the area. This miscommunication occurred because of limitations in the computer aided dispatch system and because of a lack of adequate procedures in the dispatch center, not because of the street name or its spelling and the changes they have already made as a result of our discussion on October 15th would have resolved this problem had it occurred today, simply by asking what city are you calling about, what city is this address in, is going to resolve this problem. Changing the name of Englewood Way will not solve the problem. Changes in the CAD system and the dispatching procedures are needed to solve the problem. All of our residents strongly support public safety and recognize the importance of a timely emergency response and we appreciate how tough dispatching is and they do a great job at it. If we believe this change was justified we would support it, in spite of the impacts on residents. We do not believe it is justified and we strongly oppose it. We ask that you deny this application and leave the name of North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place unchanged. Our first priority has been to convince you that you should deny this application and we hope that we have been able to do that. If not and you do approve the application, we request that you either select the alternative that was originally offered to change the spelling of Englewood from E to I or that you allow us time to sit down with the street naming committee to come up with a name acceptable to our residents. The name that was offered as Woodcrest was not a name that was approved by the residents, it was simply Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 9 of 49 one of several alternatives we gave to Terri to run through the system to see if it were possibly acceptable. So, we really haven't come to a consensus as a neighborhood and as residents what would be acceptable to us. Again, our first priority is to keep it as it is and we ask you to deny the application. Thank you. Do you have any questions? Freeman: Thank you. Are there any questions? Okay. Thank you very much. Munkres: Thank you. Freeman: Okay. Was there anybody -- I will just go down the list and if you wish to speak let me know and you will have the opportunity. If not you're welcome to state that you're either for or against this application. Betsy Munkres. Did you want to speak? You have got three minutes. And, please, state your name and address for the record when you get to the mike. B.Munkres: My name is Betsy Munkres and -- Elizabeth, actually. I live at 2656 North Englewood Way in Meridian, Idaho. I think the main thing I wanted to mention was we heard similar recordings at our other meeting and I think those recordings are very traumatic and devastating, but I don't think the name of the street was the cause of the problem or the name of the street being similar to another street name. I mean I think they were un -- they couldn't be understood. I want to reiterate that there has only been -- in the 12 years we have lived there there has been only one such incident and the dispatcher did say at the public meeting that she hoped it didn't happen to us and I hope it doesn't either, but I still do not think that the change warrants as massive a change as it is and that -- and, plus, there is a lot of streets -- Broadway, Main, Franklin there and -- and Franklin is even in Nampa or Caldwell and Boise. So, they must have some way of determining that, other than, you know -- and the last thing is when they first came up they that we could change the E to an I and that would be the least invasive change and they said that if that happened, if it was spelled the same, that the CAD system, right in front of the dispatcher, there would be a drop down menu that would key them immediately whether -- and to ask Meridian or Boise. So, that's all I have. Thank you. I'm -- obviously, I oppose it. Freeman: Thank you. June Perez. Please state your name and address for the record. Perez: Thank you. My name is June Perez and my address is 2954 North Englewood Way. When I first heard from Terri -- she and I had long conversations and she referred me to Glenda Britz for more information in regard to the problem. When I was talking to Glenda -- t don't recall whether it was during a phone conversation or at a meeting, but was told that the dispatchers were not trained to be asking what city or what cross street in Ada County. After the conversation -- I was shocked about that. And so I called Canyon county and I called Boise county to get some idea of what their procedures were to -- because if you were to ask Englewood and you were to ask what city, they would say Boise or they would say Meridian. The problem would have been resolved, because the dispatcher would have sent out the most local person to serve that -- that Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 10 of 49 address. I just find it amazing that we live in Ada County, the capital of Idaho, and they didn't ask what city an emergency was taking place in. And so I feel that -- again, as many -- I think all of the other people on the two streets -- that we are being asked to do something that -- we don't want anyone hurt, we don't want anyone to suffer because of a name of a street. That's ridiculous. But we don't want to have to go to the -- the business part of changing all of our addresses. I was under the impression there is 43 residences. In each household there can be many -- you know, many people. So, we are talking about alot -- a lot of business and so I really would ask that you would consider not approving this, because of one -- one call. So, thank you very much. Freeman: Thank you. Mary Godbey. Godbey. Again for the record. Okay. I can't read the next name. A few of them, but I will ask for a show of hands. Elaine Meyer? Somebody spoke for you; correct? Okay. Rudy Perez. Spoke for you. Ted Lewis? And, please, state your name and address for the record. Lewis: My name is Ted Lewis. I live at 2898 Englewood Way here in Meridian. And I worked as an Ada County deputy for years, special deputy for Chuck Palmer and Paul Bright when they was in there. If I got a call to go somewhere, I always asked if it was Meridian, Eagle, or where -- where the call was coming from and they could tell me and I didn't have to -- I didn't have any trouble finding. I have been all over that area out there where Englewood Road is at. They call it Englewood Road out there.. That's what's on their signs. And, evidently, they have changed since they have got new sheriffs in there they don't ask that question. Because, you know, if they say Meridian, a person knows where to look here in Meridian. If they say Boise you know it's up in Boise, but not in -- not in Meridian. So, I can't see what the problem is at all with this, so long as they would go back even to the old way. I know they have a lot of new ways of finding people on computers and stuff like that, but I don't think it's really necessary and all the work that I had done for them in all those years, I never charged the county one dollar for it. I even furnished my own gas to go there. My own vehicle. The only thing they furnished was the sirens and stuff that they put in my vehicle and, like I say, I have been all over that -- I have been clear to the airport on different calls -- as long as it is in Ada County. In fact, I have even had people from other counties, like Emmett, call and ask for my help over there and I just can't see the problem with Englewood Way down here. Thank you very much. Freeman: Thank you. John A. Kemp. And, please, state your name and address for the record. Kemp: Sure. I'm John A. Kemp. I live at 2640 Englewood Way. I would like to just add two points. It was mentioned that there are similar street names between cities. There are similar street names even within Meridian. Are we opening a door here to change all of the street names because we have similar names? For instance, there is 2nd Street East, 2nd Street West. 3rd, 4th, 5th -- how far does it go? Every city has these names. So, it comes down to procedure and so on. Our second point is that I'm a retire chief information officer. We used a lot of database structure within our organization and the hint to the sheriff's office, even though it will cost them money, there is a type of Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 11 of 49 coding called mnemonic coding that picks up similar names. For instance, an Englewood and an Inglewood. If there are multiple, it had similar sounding names, it would display both. So, there is a technical solution, but there is never going to be a perfect solution. And, finally, I'd like to say who is going to bear the responsibility for the cost of all these changes? I don't think the county is going to allow us to change all of our addresses for free. If so, please, explain those procedures for us. I think there is a lot more to this than just one incident that's occurred. Thank you for your time. Have any questions? Freeman: Any questions? No. Thank you very much. Kemp: Thank you. Freeman: Jeanette Sheep -- Shape. No? And Roger. Same last name. Did you wish to testify or just go on the record as opposed? Opposed. Okay. There is some names couldn't understand. Is there anybody else that wished to offer public testimony that's here tonight? Okay. Well, with that I will allow the applicant -- yes. There was one other person? We are doing both right now, actually. Oh, you're correct. Mary and Jack Crane. Yeah. Did you wish to testify? Thank you for catching that. Please come forward and state your name and address for the record. Crane: My name is Jack Crane. My address is 2820 Englewood Place in Meridian and went to the first one -- meeting and -- but the name change whatever Crest it was, we were not notified about that. But this is the worst case scenario and it's sad, but to change it, you don't -- if you're not over the age of 65 and have health problems you're not going to understand what we are going to go through with this change. Okay? And I'd just like to have you consider that. It's been mentioned more than once. But I just wanted to put in my two cents worth. Thank you for your time. Any questions? Freeman: All right. Thank you very much. Don't believe so. Crane: Okay. Thank you. Freeman: Anyone else? Okay. I'm going to allow the applicant to come forward. You have another ten minutes if you wish to use it to respond to anything. Ricks: A couple comments. The street name committee of Ada County is comprised of -- of representatives from Ada County assessor's office, Meridian Fire Department, Ada County Highway District, and myself, among others, and we have tried to be really proactive in recent years to avoid situations such as this. So, when we are reviewing plats and street names for new subdivisions we are very very careful, very cautious as we go over each street name -- almost to the point of ridiculousness some would say -- looking for not only identical street names that exist within Ada County, but even anything remotely sounding like another street name and we do that for -- for this reason, so that we don't have to in years going forward have to come to this. Regarding the numbered streets that are in Meridian, actually, a little over a year ago we came Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 12 of 49 before City Council and asked that the numbered streets be given two predirectionals. So, the numbered streets in Meridian now, rather than just have 2nd Street or 3rd Street, there would be like Northeast 2nd Street or Southwest 3rd Street and those are important identifiers. A lot of times people don't realize they live on those and even though -- with other predirectionals it's not really common -- probably I think Glenda would attest that when people call in they don't always use them. But there are important identifiers for dispatch purposes and for emergency response purposes. So, we have -- we have taken care of that. Also the committee really does not recommend street names lightly and they are not even recommended immediately after an incident. So much thought goes into it. This time we actually researched it for quite some time, had the neighborhood meeting, and that meeting was -- the intent was to reach out to the residents and explain the situation. Also encourage them to propose new street names, because as staff we have to come here tonight with a proposed street name, but our intent was to -- to do that. And we might have -- I hope we didn't fail. I think we forged some good relationships irregardless of the situation. I think we both just want public safety to be at its best. That's probably all I have to say. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. I need a motion to close the public hearing. Yearsley: Mr. Chairman? Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley. Yearsley: I move that we are close the public hearing on the street name. Marshall: Second. Freeman: I have a motion to close the public change for both North those in favor say aye. Englewood Way and Nc Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. hearing on the request for street name th Englewood Place and a second. All Freeman: All right. Discussion. Who would like to begin? Baird: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Yes. Baird: I would like to remind you that it would probably be best for the record if the Commission considered each of these individually, make a recommendation on the first -- or a decision on the first one and, then, deliberate on the second one and make a separate decision. Freeman: Okay. I was prepared to take separate motions, but your suggestion we also deliberate separately on them as well. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 13 of 49 Baird: You know, there is no right answer to that. The testimony that we have heard has been homogeneous and Ithink --Ithink it would probably be -- after hearing how -- how things are going, you're probably going to have the same deliberations for both. So, go ahead if that's your -- that's your desire and just make sure you make separate motions. Freeman: All right. Thank you. So, just to clarify, we will go ahead and deliberate on both, but we will take separate motions on each one of these recommendations. Again, who would like to begin? O'Brien: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: I, too, was in a position over the years to be in a police car and be called to different places and I have to say Iwas -- I was never given a wrong street address to go to or whatever. What's really perplexing is that we are talking here about similar street names. Actually, it boils down to what city and I think that's a key point here, because what do you do with streets that are -- have north and a southeast and an east and a west? I live on Locust Grove and I live on South Locust Grove. And, then, there is a North Locust Grove. Similar address numbers, as a matter of fact. One -- North Locust Grove has the same address as I have, except it's north, mine is south. There is just all these areas that can become very confusing one way or the other. Changing one street name is not -- it's not going to help the situation. Ithink it lies with the dispatcher's procedures and their computer program to solve those kind of issues, I think any other change would be a band-aide and I just don't think that's the direction we should be going here. I just think that the dispatching area, that's their charter, to get it right. They need to find a way to do that, to make sure that we are all safe and, yeah, I can appreciate the frantic calls that come in there and -- and when I arrived at some residences in that kind of an environment they were hysterical, but it's a wonder that they were able to get -- get as many right as they do. I just don't think this is the answer here, so I'm not going to be for that. Thank you. Freeman: Thank you. Commissioner Yearsley, would you like to go next? You're next in line. Yearsley: Sure. You know -- and it's a tough situation when you're trying to balance safe -- public safety versus having to get a whole bunch of new street names, so I can understand both, and it's just -- it's a tough situation and trying to balance those two, I'm not -- honestly don't quite know which way to go, to be honest with you, at this point. Freeman: Commissioner Rohm? Rohm: I'm not sure that I'm going to say this exactly right, but I'm going to make a stab at it, and I wrote this down and so it may -- anyway, I will just read it. Okay. When the Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 14 of 49 rights of the individual are taken by the will of the mass, justice has not been served. That's something that Abraham Lincoln said a long long time ago and I think that we are kind of dealing with that kind of an issue here tonight. If you were the one individual that was not served because the street was misstated or there was some confusion in dispatch, you would be the sole individual that would lose because of that issue and to allow that to happen because the masses are opposed to this, causes me great concern and so albeit that I agree wholeheartedly with Commissioner O'Brien that there should be a better way, at this point in time the system doesn't have a better way and I think that we at all times need to be concerned about the individual, as well as the masses, and so even though I think that it's ridiculous that we have to come to this, my position would be I would be in favor of the name changes, if solely for the purpose of serving a single individual that may present itself at some point in time down the road. That's all I have to say. Freeman: Thank you. Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: I want to say I agree with Commissioner Yearsley. It is -- I'm extremely torn by this. What we are asking of these residents is extremely difficult. I have changed addresses and changed everything in my life and try to remember -- trying to keep everything straight. It is difficult. It is really difficult. And we are asking an awful lot of them. It's. also really concerning to me .that we would miss that one call and that could result in deaths or whatever. Some type of catastrophic problem. I'm also disappointed in the CAD system. Extremely disappointed in the CAD system, because I think it should be fairly straight forward to be able to place a query anytime you place Englewood with an I or Englewood with an E into that system, it should automatically pop up a query. Software can do that. I know great programmers that can do that for you. And we do have some similar situations with Locust Grove, north and south, with similar addresses. We run into that all the time. And how are we going to deal with that? I do appreciate -- I do appreciate the work that everybody has been doing to try to alleviate any type of issue where we are going to misunderstand a 911 call. Those are vitally important and Idon't -- I really appreciate the work everybody has been doing. Gosh, right now I am sitting on the fence. I am having a hell of a time with it. Freeman: I will give you at least another 30 seconds to think. Marshall: Appreciate that. Freeman: My turn. I agree it's a difficult issue and I can see why opinions -- opinions would differ on this. Communication is a difficult thing and -- in any scenario and it's never going to be perfect and I appreciate everything that goes into what you're doing and what you're recommending and I appreciate why, because public safety is number one. That's your job. And you want to make sure that nobody has to wait for an extra few minutes or several minutes because of an error in communication. And that's -- that's commendable. I understand that. There is another thing to be balanced with that here, though, and that is the very people that we are hoping to protect have come in mass to say we don't want this kind of protection. We want to keep our identity by the Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 15 of 49 street name that was given to us. That's what we want. And so for me it becomes a question of how -- how do we best serve our residents in a situation like this. Do we best serve you by imposing a change on you that you really don't want and you vocalized that or do we best serve you by allowing that margin of risk that you may maintain by not accepting a new street name? Do we best serve you in that way by protecting the street name? I have said this before, I have a hard time changing the street name -- the identify where someone lives, that name, for the sake of a small additional margin of safety, which, if you ask most of the residents who are offered that trade off, they don't want to that trade off and so in this case I think it comes down to that question, do we impose this against residents, even though they don't want it, for their good, because it is going to make you safer, or do we leave it the way it is? And -- I respect opinions on both sides. I respect Commissioner Rohm's opinion on this. He's been consistent in this type of opinion on these issues and I have, too. I just don't see it the same way that he would see it and I would tend to vote against the street name change when so many residents are opposed to it, knowing what the issue is. So, Commissioner O'Brien, did you want to add something? O'Brien: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question. I'm surprised I didn't ask it myself when -- when the dispatch representative was up here. But Ihave aquestion -- and I'd probably have to reopen the public hearing to ask the question. Is that right? Then I would like to reopen the public hearing number -- if I can find it here. Just the public hearing. It doesn't a number. Baird: A and B. Freeman: Just call it Items A and B. O'Brien: A and B. Freeman: Street name change. O'Brien: Okay. Ma'am, I have a question for you. Freeman: I think we -- do we need to approve a motion to reopen a public hearing? And is it appropriate to ask you what your question is, so that we know what we are approving or -- O'Brien: I want to know about the caller ID -- when a call is made from a land line, for instance, from a home, that the caller ID automatically comes up on the switchboard at the dispatch's office, why that wasn't -- is that used or -- that's the kind of question have. Freeman: Okay. Let's go ahead and make your motion and -- O'Brien: I did and so now -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 16 of 49 Freeman: Okay. Did I hear a second? Rohm: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing for Items A and B, the street name changes regarding North Englewood Way and North Englewood Place. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Okay. We have reopened the hearing. Go ahead, Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Ma'am, would you care to address that? Do you understand the question, ma'am? Britz: Yes. Freeman: Please restate your name and address for the record. Thank you. Britz: My name is Glenda Britz with the Ada County Sheriffs Department, Emergency Communications Bureau. To answer. your question reference. the. land line number, that's called enhanced 911. It does come up when they are calling from a land line number, with the address and the name or the business or a person. It comes up on a screen. It can be populated into our dispatch computer. That doesn't always -- most of the time most people now have cell phones, to be truthful with you, and I can tell you as the MSAG coordinator I deal a lot with enhanced 911. I work with Intrado Company and I work with Qwest -- or CenturyLink now. Excuse me. Dealing with the address changes stuff and a lot of people do not make sure that their addresses are changed. So, even though an address populates, chances are it's going to be correct. However, there is still that slight possibility that it's not going to be correct. It could be an old address. I have taken addresses that have been changed six years ago and in our enhanced system they still show that old address from six years ago. But when I call the person, oh, no, our address was changed six years ago. So, it's not always correct. Does that answer your question? O'Brien: That answers my question, but -- which brings up a whole lot of other ones, but I'm not going to get into that. It just seems -- it just seems like the system as you say, six years ago, is very antiquated and I think there is some serious issues with the process and procedures that that office right now has and I -- you just even sold me even more so on -- on the issues that are in your office. Britz: That issue would be enhanced. It's not through our office. That's through CenturyLink and that's through Intrado. O'Brien: It all comes down to the point of -- of your office. I mean it all comes together there. That's where everything happens. That's what you see on the board. So, if Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 17 of 49 there is an issue with -- with someone else, then, I think that needs to be -- Britz: And that is addressed. Once it comes and -- most of the time, unfortunately, some of the stuff is not found until something comes up. When something comes up with like the enhanced 911 and there is an error in an address that is presented, that change is made, and I can tell you through Intrado when those change requests are put in that change is made immediately. Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien, I want to ask did you get the answer to your question that you were seeking? O'Brien: I did. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Were there any other questions? Marshall: Yes, sir. Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: Okay. So, when you're saying enhanced 911, you're talking about the land lines only having six year old data? Britz: Some of the land lines that have the change -- yes. Marshall: Okay. Now, let's move to cell phones. It's my understanding that a lot of cell phones now actually have geo locations for 911. Are we capable of doing that? Britz: They have what they call phase one and phase two with cell phones. Phase one where when a person calls in it's being -- it's tracking off of the nearest cell tower. Marshall: Right. Freeman: Okay. Which may or may not be -- I'm not sure of the exact footage -- hold on a second, please, and I will get that for you. Marshall: I understand triangulation between cell towers to be able to locate something, but I would think that would be secondary to actually being able to use the GPS data already stored in the phone, which I believe is part of the 911 system. At least it's supposed to be nationwide. Freeman: Right now it's phase one and phase two. Phase two is the one that comes within -- I think it's 150 feet of where the person is supposed to be located, so that's still 150 feet away from possibly where they really are. Marshall: Approximately one house. Yeah. Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 18 of 49 Britz: Yeah. Freeman: If I could interject. I know that we are going to resolve anything by getting into the specific procedures that are now in place, unless you're getting some specific information that's going to help you make a decision on this. Marshall: Just received some information that's going to help me resolve this. For me. Freeman: Did you need to ask another question or -- Marshall: No. Freeman: -- you got what you need? Marshall: I got what I need. Freeman: Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much. O'Brien: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: I move to close the public hearing for the name change. Marshall: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for the street name change. Yes? You know, I -- I think I'm going to -- we have heard all the public testimony -- most of it. At this point we are trying to move forward. We just had a few questions that we wanted to get answered, so -- Baird: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Yes. Baird: Unfortunately, in the interest of fairness -- Freeman: Okay. Baird: -- if the questions asked and answers given did bring up new issues, I think it would be fair to allow some very brief testimony that -- on the new information only. Freeman: Okay. Let me ask that. Did the raising questions trigger some additional items you would like to address? Okay. Well, in the interest of fairness let's make sure. Take some extra time. Come on up. We will give you three minutes. Please state our name and address for the record. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 19 of 49 Smith: My name is Roy Smith. I live at 2686 Aronmink Lane in the Fairways homeowners association and I'm a board member. But the questions that I have is, you know, the street name is Englewood Place, Englewood Way, and Inglewood Road. Those are identifiers, in my opinion. And the other thing that -- you know, I am assuming if an incident were to come up somewhere from 1996 when those streets were named until now it would have brought -- came up before. So, we are looking at one incident in 13 years and we are going to change the street name for that one incident. I just don't understand it, so -- and that's all I have to say. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Okay. I had a motion and a second to close the public hearing. I think I can go with that motion. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? The public hearing is closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Did the questions trigger any new comments from any of the Commissioners? Marshall: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: My -- my comments are simply that, obviously, we should be able to locate simply by landline -- automatically locate whether it's Boise or Meridian. Cell phones I know are coming out with the 911 where you have got the GPS in your cell phone and should be able to locate it. Short of the 911 GPS signal being sent back, we should be able to triangulate -- now, I know that takes some time and it's difficult to do, but they can be triangulated. I'm falling against the name change, so -- Freeman: I need somebody to make a motion, then, if there are no further comments. O'Brien: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. Borrow the language from another item in front of you. O'Brien: Okay. All right. So, after consideration of other -- I guess that's not the right one. Which one do I use, then? Freeman: Any of them. Baird: Mr. Chair. It may be as simple as saying with regard to the name change for Englewood Way. O'Brien: Okay. With regards to the name change of Englewood Way and Place -- Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 20 of 49 Freeman: Oh. We are going to make separate motions. So, start with -- thank you. O'Brien: I move to disallow any name change. To keep the names the same as they are right now. Marshall: I second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to -- disallow was the word you used? To deny the name change for North Englewood Way to the new name. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Rohm: Aye. Freeman: Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. Freeman: I now need a motion for Englewood Place. Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move that we deny the name change for North Englewood Place. O'Brien: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to deny the name change request for North Englewood Place. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Rohm: Aye. Freeman: Four to one. Motion carries. Thank you very much. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. C. Public Hearing: AZ 12-013 Locust Grove Water Reservoir #2 by City of Meridian Public Works Department Located at East Side of S. Locust Grove Road, Approximately 1/4 Mile South of E. Victory Road Request: Annexation and Zoning of Four (4) Acres of Land with an R-4 Zoning District D. Public Hearing: CUP 12-017 Locust Grove Water Reservoir #2 by City of Meridian Public Works Department Located East Side of S. Locust Grove Road, Approximately 1/4 Mile South of E. Victory Road Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval for Public Infrastructure in a Proposed R-4 Zoning District, Consisting of Two (2) Million Gallon Municipal Water Storage Facility Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 21 of 49 Freeman: Next item. If I can find myself here. Okay. At this time I'd like to open the public hearing for Item No. AZ 12-013, Locust Grove reservoir number two and also CUP 12-017 for the same, beginning with the staff report. Yearsley: Mr. Chairman? Freeman: Yes. Yearsley: Before we go, I would like to recuse myself of this application due to the fact that I live in the Tuscany Subdivision, which is adjacent to this project, and I am on the association -- Tuscany homeowners association board and have been through a lot of the public hearings within the city with the residents and stuff and don't feel like I could be fair with this, so at this time I'd like to recuse myself. Freeman: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Yearsley. Can we, Ted, have him back once this particular hearing is over? Baird: Yes. Mr. Chair, I have suggested that he stay out in the hallway, just so that there is no indication -- improper visual cues or anything of that nature. And he can actually listen to it out there, that's no problem.. There is audio in the hallway and when it's done he can come back for the next hearing. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. So, staff report. Sonya, is that you? Wafters: That's me. Freeman: Go ahead. Wafters: Chairman Freeman, Member of the Commission. The next application before you is an annexation and zoning and conditional use permit request. This site consists of four acres of land. It's currently zoned RUT in Ada County and is located on the east side of South Locust Grove, approximately a quarter of a mile south of Victory. Adjacent land uses and zoning. To the north is vacant property and we have an application currently in process for a rezone to R-8 and a plat for single family residential uses. Tradewinds Subdivision. Currently zoned RUT in Ada County. To the east are single family residences in Tuscany Lakes Subdivision, zoned R-4. To the south is rural residential property zoned RUT in Ada County. And to the west is Locust Grove and across that is vacant land zoned RUT in Ada County and single family residences in Tuscany Village Subdivision, zoned R-8. The city proposes to annex the subject parcel with an R-4 zoning designation, consistent with the Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation of medium density residential. The site is proposed to develop with a -- excuse me -- a water reservoir, which is classified in the Unified Development Code as public infrastructure and requires conditional use permit approval in the R-4 district. This is a site plan for the site. I'm going to flip to the landscape plan. It's a little easier to look at. The proposed infrastructure consists of an above-ground Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 22 of 49 water reservoir and associated equipment storage building. The reservoir consists of a circular tank, 20 feet in height, and 145 feet in diameter, with a two million gallon storage capacity. The equipment storage building, which is right here, consists of approximately 3,360 square feet and will have a series of pumps, fans, and equipment necessary for the operation of the reservoir. A backup emergency generator will be located between the structure and the reservoir and will run an average of 15 minutes per week as part of its maintenance program. In the event of a power outage, the generator will provide power for the operation of the facility. Access to the site will be provided from the north via Tradewinds Subdivision, currently in the approval process. If this site develops prior to the adjacent subdivision, temporary access will be provided via Locust Grove. Once access is available from the north the temporary access will cease and be removed. This is the landscape plan that was submitted with the application. There has been a revised one. I thought I had it in this presentation, but apparently I don't. So, I will -- anyway, the only difference is it shows an access right here to the north. A 25 foot wide buffer is required along Victory and a berm with dense landscaping consisting of a mix of evergreen and deciduous trees and shrubs is proposed around the water tank to visually buffer the proposed facility from adjacent residential property. All landscaping is required to be maintained in a healthy growing condition at all times. The Ten Mile Creek runs along the southern boundary of the site right here and will remain open as it is a natural waterway. A ten foot wide multi-use pathway is designated on the master pathways plan on this site along the north side of the creek. There is an approximate 160 foot long gap between the existing pathway in Tuscany Lakes Subdivision and the southeast boundary of this site. For this reason staff recommends construction of the pathway on this site be delayed until the city is able to obtain an easement on the adjacent property for the existing pathway and the extension of the pathway. Although the pathway will be constructed at a later date staff recommends an easement for the pathway on the site be submitted to the city, approved by Council, and recorded prior to issuance of certificate of zoning compliance. The applicant has worked extensively with surrounding neighbors on the location of the reservoir, the equipment structure, placement of landscape berms, trees, shrubs, and fencing to provide the maximum buffer between the residents and the facility. This is a cross-section here showing the berm and the reservoir and the landscaping. Kind of gives you an idea. Written testimony was received from Shawn Nickel agreement with the staff report and staff is recommending approval of the proposed application. Staff will stand for any questions Commission may have. Freeman: Thank you. Any questions at this time? All right. Would the applicant like to come forward and, please, state your name and address for the record. Nickel: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. For the record Shawn Nickel, 1589 North Estancia Place, Eagle, Idaho. I'm here this evening representing the Public Works Department for the City of Meridian. Nice to see you all again. As staff has indicated, we are asking for an annexation and rezone of this four acre parcel into the City of Meridian, with a conditional use permit for public infrastructure to construct the water reservoir facility and, again, the -- it's a 20 some high by 145 foot diameter above ground water reservoir, two million gallon maximum capacity. In addition, we have a Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 23 of 49 3,350 square foot utility maintenance building that will be part of that facility. The site plan that you have before you -- and I don't know if staff has the revised plan that they can show it now. Oh, there it is. Okay. Through negotiations with the developer to the north that purchased the property after we were involved with the entitlement process, we were able to get that access to the north, thus avoiding that access off of Locust Grove. Otherwise, everything else remains the same. Some slight modifications to that -- to that access there to the north. So, full landscaping out on Locust Grove, as opposed to the gap where the entrance would be. The site plan is the result of several years of planning, including multiple meetings with the neighbors, evaluations of this property as surrounding properties for potential locations of this facility and working with impacted neighbors on the design that does it's best to make this facility compatible with the surrounding land uses. This project is needed to provide water demands for this portion of the city for uses for potable water and fire protection. This property was chosen because it met many of the criteria that the city Public Works Department was looking for for this facility, including location on an -- on an arterial roadway, which is Locust Grove, adjacent to a drain, which is the Ten Mile Creek. Proper access to adequate Idaho Power services, and the least amount of impact on adjacent land uses. The facility will have the majority of the equipment, such as fans and pumps located within the -- within the storage building. As staff has indicated, there will be a backup generator that will be located outside and that generator will be for emergency use if the facility loses main power and that generator will run approximately 15 minutes a week as part of the -- as part of the maintenance program to make sure that it fires adequately and that Public Works Department is able to time that to where it could come on anytime during the day, so usually during, you know, late morning when people are at work it will fire on for ten or 15 minutes, just to run and make sure it's working properly. The provided site plan does show landscaping and buffering that was designed with the input of the impacted neighbors to our -- to our east and our -- and our south. A six foot wrought iron fence that will -- that will provide security surrounding the property. Again, access will be taken from the north now. We do show the pathway on our plan and as staff has indicated, that pathway will be delayed in the construction that we will provide. I was just talking to the Parks Department -- I don't know if we are going to provide an easement -- you need to provide an easement to yourself, since the city owns the property, but in the findings it will be designated that that pathway will be in that location in the future. We did review the staff report and the conditions of approval and we have no concerns at this time to what staff is recommending, so I will stand for questions you have at this time. Freeman: Thank you. Any questions? O'Brien: Yeah. Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Yeah. Thanks, Shawn. How many people will this thing serve? What -- can you give kind of a lay of an area? Is it all within a square mile or is it just how -- I'm assuming this pumps uphill, so don't have to worry about height of it. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 24 of 49 Nickel: Yeah. It serves this general area and lots of the vacant ground that is surrounding to the south and to the -- to the west of this. O'Brien: So, any further development south of that area, like beyond Amity? Nickel: Yeah. I can -- I can get back to you on that. O'Brien: Okay. I was just curious. Nickel: In that area. Yeah. I don't have that with me, but I can get you -- O'Brien: Okay. Yeah. Because I didn't know if they were -- if you're planning on having another later on or some other place or -- Nickel: Yeah. The Public Works Department does have a master water plan that we could probably muster up and get in front of you. O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. Freeman: Okay. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much. Nickel: Okay. Thanks. Freeman: Okay. Okay. I will start taking public testimony. I have a few people sign the sheet in the back. I will just go down the list. Shawn Nickel. That was Shawn. Thank you. You will get another opportunity. Matt Carden. Did you wish to testify? Please state your name and address for the record. Carden: My name is Matt Carden. I live at 1802 East Deerhill Court. It is the property directly east of the proposed water tank site. I speak for several individuals and neighbors and residents who are most affected by the proposed plan and would first just like to say that we appreciate tremendously the collaboration that we have received over the last several months as we have looked at the plans and we have looked at specific criteria that has been established to make this project amenable to both sides. We feel like we have gained alignment on several points of the plan, particularly with the landscaping and -- and some of the other initiatives that we have taken to help maintain the character if our community and of our subdivision. I would like to go on the record and state for both myself and, as I have mentioned, several of the residents that as a separate issue we would be opposed to the proposed path that's a separate piece of this project and this is not something that we feel, both from a monetary standpoint, and the expense, nor from the safety of our children that play at the park, that it would connect to something that we feel is necessary at this time. With that statement being said, I would certainly state that, once again, I represent a couple of the residents, but don't represent everybody, and would encourage others that have opinions one way or the other to also express them. Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 25 of 49 Freeman: Thank you. I have one question before you go. Carden: You bet. Freeman: Could you specify what your safety concern is with the path? Carden: It's access from a major throughway to not residents of the -- of the subdivision and just concern that the path is going to be going along an area that is most likely not well lit and it's certainly not going to have other buildings and other traffic in that area that would mitigate the risk of somebody sneaking in. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. That was all. Carden: Thank you. Freeman: Jason Bell. And, please, state your name and address for the record. Bell: My name is Jason Bell, I live at 1828 East Sergio Court. I'm in a cul-de-sac directly east of where the water tank is to be placed and, again, just to reiterate what Matt said, we do appreciate the City of Meridian working with us to get the esthetics of the tank, the landscaping, the fencing, and the -- to where we are both agreeable with that. Again, just to reiterate what Matt said, with the path is a lot of the residents of our subdivision -- we pay association dues that maintain these -- essentially private parks of our subdivision. We have the parks that we pay for to maintain that we built and this path is granting access for others to come in and use it. We pay for the maintenance of it and it does also concern the safety of it by having this path allow others just another access point into our subdivision. There is a lot of vegetation as you can see from Ten Mile Creek. And also what will be placed in with the water tank of trees where a lot of people can go to hide and safety concerns with that. I don't know if we are going to have City of Meridian police on bike paths constantly patrolling this, you know, where kids and teenagers can go to do drugs, other things -- I mean in the future down the road and this is just something that we don't want to bring into our community as a future problem. Right now these parks only have access coming through our streets and our neighborhood where we have houses and neighbors that continually watch as they -- you know, neighborhood watch and see people coming in and out with vehicles and with this access point coming from Locust Grove really there is no view of seeing who is coming in or who is doing what. So, as a community and neighborhood for myself and others who I have expressed, we do have a concern with the future safety of allowing this path coming into our neighborhood and also the use of, essentially, the parks that we pay for. And that's all I have. Freeman: Thank you. Jim Faber. Is that right? And, please, state your name and address for the record. Faber: Jim Faber. 3647 South Basilica Way. I live south of the proposed project. We Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 26 of 49 will have a beautiful view to the north outside of several windows of our nice home. We I think to the person all initially would have preferred that it move somewhere else. So, I don't think anybody that has spoken so far has initially been in the approval mode of the tank, but that said, I think with discussions over months with -- with the department and think well spent time with the neighborhood and your department, Public Works, came to -- to a synergistic solution with a lot of time spent looking at what the trees could do, could we move and shift the -- could we shift it, could we lower it, could we -- what could we do. So, a lot of time was spent with -- with the public input. One concern beyond the path, which I think has been stated and I will just restate it quickly, is this path drops right into a beautiful little park with slides and little kids playing around there, used often. That wouldn't be acceptable to us. There -- there is a trail that comes down to Palermo and into the subdivision, which is already in existence, so, you know, why another path. Again, this is not an issue -- the path is not an -- of this department, it's an issue for the -- for the parks and recreation. So, that will be taken up later. But I think we just need to note that the path is probably one of the touchier buttons. Along with the plan that you have before you, these trees that were -- that are shown here, with the help of good consultants and others was a project where we were taken out by the department to look at other tanks and how trees would help alleviate -- or at least mitigate some of the -- the obvious eye sore. The concern here is that -- Freeman: That was our button, so I need to have you conclude pretty quickly. Faber: Oh. Okay. That the city live up to our expectations, that there is a certain caliper of trees here, these aren't just little sprigs that we are putting in the ground and we will have some protection 20 years from now, but that we have -- that we spend the money wisely and we do what we said we were going to do. Thank you very much. Freeman: Thank you. Jim Cox. Didn't wish to testify? In support. And Scott Barker? You wish to testify. Please state your name and address for the record. Barker: Commissioners, my name is Scott Barker at 3595 South Basilica Way. I am at the property to the immediate south of the pocket park and the first property to the south on the upstream side of Ten Mile Creek. I was originally involved pretty heavily with the neighbors and the city back in 2010, two years ago when we first started this and there was quite a hodge-podge of different people that got involved and some fairly charged emotions and lots of disagreement on what should all be done and, eventually, I became disenfranchised and kind of checked out for a while, so I was especially surprised to see when this came up on the notion -- on the notice, so I wanted to at least reiterate a couple of the concerns I raised early in the project that I had mentioned to some of the City Council, the Mayor, and I think on a couple of occasions with some of the -- the city engineers that we haven't been in contact in quite a while. And, particularly, my primary concern was if there was a failure, whether it be a rupture, a pump stuck on, some other discharge event that might occur at the site. As understand it there is a culvert on Locust Grove Road that presents a flooding problem for Ten Mile Creek in this vicinity and I haven't seen yet that we have had an analysis performed -- and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong if it has been -- what would happen Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 27 of 49 in the event of such an unlikely event, how it would impact this area. Obviously, I'm the first property up the stream from Ten Mile Creek, so if there is a heavy rain event, we have a pump that gets left on, it discharges thousands, if not millions of gallons of water, where is it going. So, that's been my primary concern and, hopefully, maybe somebody from the staff can address if that is something that they have looked at. I have shared examples, reports in the past with engineers, but, again, I'm not sure if something similar has been performed, if an analysis has been completed or not. That was my testimony. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Was there anybody else that wished to offer public testimony this evening? Got one more. Please state your name and address for the record. Gibbons: Certainly. Jay Gibbons. I work for the City of Meridian. My address is 33 East Broadway, Suite 206. I am the pathways project manager with the Parks Department and I appreciate the collaboration between the neighbors and the Public Works Department to work on this and address the issues with this project. And represent the -- of course the pathway along Ten Mile and Ican -- Ten Mile Creek. I can add a little bit of clarity there. I'm not sure if I know how to run this little -- but the -- this area right along here is the tot lot that's been referred to and the Ten Mile -- when Tuscany was developed the developing company built amulti-use pathway that ran along Ten Mile and it turns up through tot lot and runs into the -- into Palermo, I believe, reference to that road. And it doesn't continue on. That's -- there is a 165 foot gap between the corner of that existing pathway and the fence at the corner of -- where the subdivision ties into Ten Mile Creek. I had hoped at some point to approach the neighbors to pursue an easement across there to extend the pathway along Ten Mile Creek to Locust Grove. Currently, of course, the situation is not such and that's fine really appreciate the neighbors making that -- making that clear. What I -- I commend Public Works for doing it and working with me anyways in regards to a future potential pathway that may or may not ever get built, but the way that the site plan is laid out they reserve some space for a pathway. It's outside the fence -- between the fence and Ten Mile Drain -- or creek itself and so the potential is there, the area is there in the future should it ever become a possibility of extending that Ten Mile Creek pathway and, if not, that's fine, too, and we still have the -- the common -- the open area and we don't have a connection to Tuscany. So, I just wanted to provide a little bit of background there. I'm in support of the condition that says, no, not going to build a pathway, especially, at this time. We have the space to do it in the future, we will readdress that. If -- if sentiment changes and the neighbors are amenable to that possibility, so -- and I will stand for questions. O'Brien: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Yes, Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Yeah. A little bit confused here. Several references were made to the park that this pathway goes into. Is that city owned or partially owned or is it owned by Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 28 of 49 everybody in that subdivision? Gibbons: Chairman Freeman, Commissioner O'Brien, it is -- the pocket park is a private park that Tuscany developed. They do have a tot lot. They have a playground in there and a nice grass open area. O'Brien: Okay. Gibbons: So, this -- O'Brien: Okay. I got it. Gibbons: So -- but it's there. They maintain it. The city has -- O'Brien: So, the large one that's on the south side of the -- the Tuscany Subdivision, that's a city park, I believe. It's quite large. Gibbons: Renaissance Park is within -- within Tuscany to the east several blocks. We do have a city park that the city maintains. O'Brien: Just want to make sure I got that straight. Thank you. Gibbons: That's correct. Freeman: I hate to challenge you technologically, but on this map could you maybe show us where the existing path is and where it's -- where the future plan for the extension are? Gibbons: Mr. Chairman, the existing pathway long the Ten Mile Creek developed at the -- at the time of development runs along -- right along the creek, it crosses the entry road, and it comes in just into the corner of the tot lot and turns up. See what I'm saying? Freeman: Yes. Gibbons: So, it's totally separated from -- from the water tank property itself by about 165 feet. Freeman: Is there an intended extension of that through additional neighborhoods in the future? Gibbons: It does extend to the south through another existing development. It was built at that time, but there would have to be a crossing where Ten Mile Creek and the other waterway that's perpendicular flows over the top of each other, there would have to be a bridge in that -- in that regard. Originally when Tuscany was developed, according to the development application, the Ten Mile Creek pathway was going to beaten foot Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 29 of 49 wide pathway and was to be given to the Meridian Parks Department and the future as part of an overall greenbelt plan and that's why our master plan indicates a pathway connecting to Locust Grove in the future. Freeman: So, it would connect to Locust Grove, you don't know where it would go beyond Locust Grove at this point? Would it continue along the creek? Gibbons: There is -- on the south side of the creek -- this one, of course -- the existing one through Tuscany is on the north side of Ten Mile Creek. Across Locust Grove there is an existing Ten Mile multi-use pathway up to Victory on the south side of -- Freeman: Okay. Gibbons: -- that was built with this -- a development directly across to the east. Freeman: That helps me understand the perspective of why the path is being proposed. Gibbons: Right. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Gibbons: All right. Thank you. Freeman: Was there anybody else that wished to offer testimony this evening? All right. Would the applicant like to come forward. You have got another ten minutes if you would like to use them. Nickel: Thank you, again, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. And, for the record, Shawn Nickel. First of all I guess we need to -- we need to thank the neighbors that are -- that are here this evening. They have gone through a long, drawn out process and over two years. I think we had six neighborhood meetings and, then, several meetings after that to get the landscaping plan designed and so I do appreciate them coming forward and, you know, supporting the concept that we have here, understanding that this is going to be in their backyards and they -- you know. And it is going to be somewhat of an impact, but they were great to work with. Real fast. Couple of points of clarification. Sonya, could you put the elevation that shows the site from the neighbor -- neighboring property onto the -- just a point of clarification. When staff pointed out the -- the tank height I believe she pointed to -- she pointed to that elevation right there and, actually, the tank is -- is -- this is the location right here. So, just for clarification, that just shows the gap between the -- between the landscaping and the tank itself. So, just wanted to clear that up. And, then, also I had referenced in the city's criteria for the location of this site, I had stated that the road -- Locust Grove Roadway was a -- was an important criteria and just to correct myself, the main transmission lines that are in that road is what was important for that location, not necessarily fronting on -- on Locust Grove, because there is not really that much impact onto the roadway, but those Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 30 of 49 transmission lines in -Locust Grove. I wanted to just clarify that for you. Thanks to Jay for getting up and explaining the pathway issues. I don't know if you had more questions on that. That was good for him. And, then, I have got Clint here to -- I think he's going to address your question, Commissioner O'Brien, about the -- there is no homes in the area in this that this is going to service and, then, we can also address your questions about -- or the neighbor's questions about the safety in the event of some overflowing of the water from the tank, so -- Freeman: Thank you. I need your name and address also. Worthington: Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is Clint Worthington. work for the Public Works Department, City of Meridian, and I just kind of wanted to address like -- Shawn said a couple of the questions that came up. The first one being with the -- the zone that it serves, the area that it serves, it's our zone four, which, basically, runs -- it would be zone four and five, but zone four runs from the freeway roughly past -- it would be past Amity and, then, zone five runs all the way to Lake Hazel. So, it's serving that area out there. O'Brien: So, Amity to Lake Hazel is zone five? Worthington: Yeah. O'Brien: Okay. So, it stops there at Amity. Worthington: That's because the zone boundary runs at an angle. O'Brien: Okay. Worthington: So, it runs kind of at a skew angle to -- from the east to the west, but it runs -- the pressure zone starts at the freeway and runs up to roughly -- O'Brien: Runs at an angle to the bench? Worthington: Yes. O'Brien: Okay. Worthington: So, that's the zone area that this tank will serve. O'Brien: Okay. I just wanted to -- okay. Worthington: And the other issue I wanted to address was the siting with the creek. The reason why we picked this site right there was we had access to a drainage in case something catastrophic were to happen, so we have located it next to this creek and the creek has more than enough volume in it to take this tank if it were to leak out. So, that's the whole reason behind being next to the creek, if there was any kind of failure or Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 31 of 49 if we had to drain it. So, I think that was all I had, other than the catastrophic failure of the tank. These tanks are designed to certain standards by our structural engineers that -- you know, certain, so catastrophic failures are pretty rare. But I just wanted to address that, so I will stand for any questions. Freeman: Are there any further questions? Thank you. Worthington: You bet. Freeman: All right. That was the applicant. Before we close the public hearing, any other questions? Commissioner Rohm? Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I have a question of staff. Had this property been developed by -- with regular lots on it, as opposed to being changed for this purpose, would we not have required the developer to put a pathway adjacent to the perimeter? Friedman: Thank you, Mr. Chair and Commissioner Rohm. That's a very good question and the answer is -- simple answer to that is yes. One of the things that we as a city, as an applicant, want to make sure that we hold ourselves to the same standard, if not a higher standard, than we would for any applicant. That's not to say that we may not have the same conversation about the pathway, but because the city has an adopted pathway plan and because it is a code requirement that we would impose on a private developer, we felt that both in the spirit of the plan, as well as in the spirit of holding ourselves to the same standards that we would have made the same recommendation. Rohm: That was the purpose of the question. Thank you. Freeman: Thank you, Commissioner Rohm. Any other questions? Okay. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing? Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move we close the public hearing on AZ 12-013 and CUP 12-017. O'Brien: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for AZ 12-013 and CUP 12-017, Locust Grove Water Reservoir No. 2. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. The public hearing is closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Further discussions? Marshall: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 32 of 49 Marshall: Just a quick comment in that I think really I appreciate the fact that this city is suggesting maybe we hold off on the pathway in actually constructing it until we have easements in Tuscany and whatnot until we get some agreement there. Otherwise, I think we would actually be requiring somebody to build it at this time. I think that's in deference to the resident requirements -- or requests and I appreciate that. I hope someday it can flow through. The idea is that the parks are private, other people are not allowed to come and use it, it's a private park, it's not a public park. It's only for the residents. The idea is that these -- and this was part of the pathways project and there is -- there is lots of movement throughout the city that we can start getting on a bicycle and ride across town and get downtown and, you know, we don't have the river to follow, so why don't we follow the canals and maybe the railway and things like that and years and years of committees and public input have gone into recommending this and we have been requiring these pathways in anybody -- from anybody that abuts the canals and any areas that we have identified that those pathways should be and some other people have identified where they should be. But I do appreciate that the city is willing to hold off on that until they can get some better agreements. Freeman: Thank you. Marshall: One more thing. l would very much like to commend the city in what I think is upholding the higher standard and trying to maintain that. This is not something that most want to see in their backyard and I think the city is trying to -- we have to have them, they are a necessary evil, and I really think that the city has been trying very hard to bend over backwards to try to make sure that they are a good neighbor and trying to uphold the standards that we require for everybody else and I just want to commend the city in that regard. Freeman: Good point. Thank you, Commissioner Marshall. Anyone else? Rohm: Just a question I guess. Can't we approve it just as the application states and allow for the pathway to take on its own life at such time that there is agreement? Freeman: Commissioner Rohm, that's my understanding, too. Rohm: Okay. Freeman: We can go ahead and approve this as is and that will work itself out. Rohm: Okay. Good. O'Brien: Mr. Chair, I don't have any new information to add to this. I appreciate Commissioner Marshall's addressing the city for the job well done. I think they are working with the -- with the -- I call them customers -- the residents of the area very well and I think it's been well accepted, so that much I really appreciate as well. Water -- wouldn't call it a necessary evil, I think it's -- water is a very important resource. It's the Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 33 of 49 building that's the necessary evil. The container. So, anyway, that's -- I'm all for it and I'm looking forward to see this thing go through. Freeman: All right. Can somebody give me a motion? Marshall: Mr. Chair, after considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to City Council of file numbers AZ 12-013 and CUP 12-017 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of December 6, 2012, with no modifications. Rohm: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for AZ 12-013 and CUP 12-017, Locust Grove Water Reservoir No. 2. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. E. Public Hearing: CUP 12-019 Omni-Fit by Omni-Fit, LLC Located 535 N. Locust Grove Road Request: Conditional Use Permit for an Indoor Recreation Facility in an I-L Zoning District Freeman: And at this time I think we can ask Commissioner Yearsley to come back into the chambers. Could you hear me? Can you hear me now? At this time I'd like to open the public hearing for CUP 12-019 and CUP -- I have CUP 12-019 twice here, so I'm confused. But it's CUP 12-019, Omni-Fit. Oh, that's why. I remember now. I'm getting a little tired, so if everybody will give me a little break I would appreciate that. Thank you. And let's begin with the staff report. Watters: Thank you, Chairman Freeman, Members of the Commission. The next application before you is a conditional use permit request. The site before you consists of 1.4 acres of land. It's currently zoned I-L, light industrial, and it's located at 535 North Locust Grove Road on the southwest corner of Locust Grove and Commercial. This site is surrounded by industrial uses in an I-L zoning district. In 2005 a certificate of zoning compliance was approved for the construction of the existing 16,000 square foot multi-tenant building in which this use is proposed. The applicant requests approval to operate a gym in an 8,000 square foot tenant space in an existing building in the I-L zoning district. I'm having technical difficulties here. I'm trying to switch to the site plan, but it's not wanting to let me for some reason. There it goes. Okay. The gym offers personal training, cardio classes, and a small group training by appointment only. The proposed use is classified as indoor arts, entertainment, or recreation facility in the Unified Development Code, which requires conditional use approval in an I-L district. The proposed use is subject to the specific use standards listed in UDC 11-4-3-2. Most of these pertain to outdoor uses. The applicant is in compliance with these standards. Access is provided to the site via Commercial Drive. Direct access to Locust Grove is Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 34 of 49 prohibited. The existing parking on the site meets UDC requirements and no exterior modifications to the building are proposed. Written testimony was received from Jeannie Zingg, the applicant, in agreement with the staff report and staff is recommending approval of the proposed conditional use application with conditions in the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions Commission may have. Freeman: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions of staff? Marshall: Sonya -- Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: -- wasn't there just recently a -- was it a volleyball facility or -- Watters: It was a -- excuse me, Chairman Freeman, Commissioner Marshall, it was a dance studio. Marshall: Dance studio. That was it. Thank you. That was very close by -- Watters: Same building. Yes. Marshall: Same building. Yes. Thank you. Freeman: Would the applicant like to come forward? And, please, state your name and address for the record. Zingg: My name is Jeannie Zingg. My address is 4294 East English Drive here in Meridian. We are looking to relocate and expand our gym, which was located at 750 South Progress Avenue, to this gym, 535 North Locust Grove and the reason is because we are looking for a warehouse style facility for our indoor turf. We do football training, volleyball, so we needed higher ceilings, we needed more open area, and it's an ideal fit, because the building as it sits is perfect, we don't need to have any modifications done to it and -- let's see. Let's see. And it's also -- you know, we are similar in the way that the tenant before us, Red Line Recreational Place, they are a membership based business as well. And when I say that, we are a membership, we are by appointment only, we are not just like a regular open gym, everything is scheduled by appointment. We do kids and adults. So, as far as parking goes, the kids -- most of them get dropped off. Parking is not an issue. We have plenty of parking out there. We feel that we are probably less of a hazard than Red Line was, because they had RVs and all kinds of toys parked out front and on the side of the street. So, I guess that's about it. Does anybody have any questions? Freeman: Okay. Were there any questions of the applicant? O'Brien: I have none. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 35 of 49 Freeman: Okay. Thank you very much. I don't believe I have anybody signed up for this. Was there anybody wishing to offer public testimony tonight. No? I guess we need a motion to close the public hearing then. Rohm: So moved. Yearsley: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for CUP 12-019, Omni-Fit. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Any discussion? O'Brien: Mr. Chair. Sonya, could you switch it back to the site view? Okay. I just wanted to be sure I understand where -- where that is. Okay. So, the dance studio is right at end of that on the south side? Is that right? Wafters: It's centrally located within the building -- O'Brien: Okay. Wafters: -- Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Okay. I wasn't quite sure when Commissioner Marshall mentioned that thought I had it fixed in my mind, but now I do. I think it's a good fit. I think it's a good win-win situation for everyone and I think it's a --glad to see it happen. That's all I have. Freeman: Good. Anyone else? I agree. It looks like a good project, good use of the building. So I need a motion. Yearsley: Very quickly, Commissioner -- Chairman? Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley. Yearsley: In here it asks us to direct for staff to prepare Findings of Fact, but we are approving it following this. Is -- Rohm: We just need to change the date. Freeman: Yeah. We need to change that, so we are going to make a motion on the item for approval or denial. If we are approving it we are also going to move that we accept the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law with it. Yearsley: Okay. Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 36 of 49 Freeman: And I don't believe we have any modifications that were discussed here to those Findings of Fact, unless you noticed one that needs to be changed? Yearsley: No. Freeman: Okay. Yearsley: But it says if we approve it we direct staff to prepare findings of fact for December 20th, but yet we are going to -- Freeman: I would exclude that from our motion I believe. Rohm: I'll just modify that. Let me make the motion, please. Freeman: Let me add something before we make a motion. Okay. I think we are on the same ground, so go ahead. Baird: If you make your motion and it's in favor, then, the findings will magically appear as your next item on your agenda. Yearsley: Okay. Marshall: They have to be separated. Freeman: Yes. Marshall: Thank you. Rohm: Mr. Chairman, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve file number CUP 12-019 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of December 6, 2012, with no modifications. I further move to direct staff to prepare appropriate finding documents to be considered at the next item on our current agenda before the Planning and Zoning Commission for the hearing date of December 6, 2012. Marshall: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CUP 12-019, Omni-Fit. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 12-019 Omni-Fit by Omni-Fit, LLC Located 535 N. Locust Grove Road Request: Conditional Use Permit for an Indoor Recreation Facility in an I-L Zoning District Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 37 of 49 Freeman: And we can check with staff and see if they have had time to prepare those. Wafters: I have had time. Freeman: Okay. Marshall: That was quick. Very impressive. Freeman: So, I do understand now we need a motion to approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law on this item? So, I need one of you to do that. Yearsley: Mr. Chairman? Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley. Yearsley: I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for file number CUP 12-019. Marshall: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for approval of CUP 12-019, Omni-Fit. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. G. Public Hearing: CUP 12-018 Tates Rents by John Day Located at 203 S. Main Street Request: Conditional Use Permit Approval to Operate an Equipment Rental, Sales and Service Use in a C-G Zoning District Freeman: At this time I would like to open the public hearing for CUP 12-018, Tate's Rents, beginning with the staff report. Hello, Bill. Parsons: Thank you, Commissioners, Members of the Commission. I just wanted to -- the next item on the agenda is Tate's Rents conditional use permit. This property consists of three acres, is currently zoned C-G within the city and is located between Main and Meridian just south of East Franklin Road. At one time this site was a future Meridian Ford site, has been sitting vacant for several years now. To the north we have partially developed commercial property. To the east is the speedway. To the south is Les Schwab Tire Center and across the street to the west is multi-family residential and a mobile home park zoned R-15. Because this was zone -- the property is zoned C-G, the applicant is required to submit a conditional use permit for an equipment rental, sales, and service facility. If you recall the applicant is currently operating here in downtown Meridian and due to some of those road changes and projects, the applicant Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 38 of 49 has to relocate the facility and this is the site that they have purchased and identified to go into. Site improvements include 4,900 square foot building addition. Also includes a 3,400 square foot canopy area central to the rental yard and attached to that would be a washing bay. Because the applicant is expanding the site beyond a 50 percent threshold, they are required to bring you all of their landscaping and the UDC brings that up into the parameters of the landscape ordinance, so that would require a 35 foot landscape buffer along Meridian Road and also along Main Street. In addition to that they have to comply with all perimeter landscape requirements along the south boundary and the north boundary as well. Along the west boundary and the east boundary the applicant is proposing a six foot block masonry wall to screen, one, the storage yard, which is located along Meridian Road, and, then, also the rental yard, which is located here facing Main Street, as required by the UDC. Also the specific use standards for this use does require that the applicant conduct all repair of equipment inside of an enclosed structure. That's why they are adding this addition here to facilitate that and do that as well. As I mentioned, this site is partially developed with an 8,000 square foot building here. That will be renovated in the future as well. Access to this site is provided from Main Street, one along the north and one along the south boundary and, then, also one access from Meridian Road. Originally ACHD sent over some draft conditions and recommended closure of this curb cut here. In discussions with the applicant -- and staff hasn't verified this with ACHD, but it's my understanding that ACHD will act on this at a later date, but they are recommending that this be an exit only access point, so there will be -- this plan doesn't reflect it, but in the future they will have to reconstruct that current access point exit only and shrink it down to a 20 foot access point moving forward. And, then, also here are some of the elevations that they are proposing. The current structure is made out of metal. The applicant is proposing similar building materials as the existing structure, but this metal siding will have a textured finish and, then, also the new addition will have a stone wainscot as well. The applicant will have to come back with a certificate of zoning compliance and administrative design review application and in doing so we will look at that and evaluate it against the Meridian design review standards as well. Going back to the site plan, I did want to mention that this site plan does depict a display area along Main Street for the specific use standards that is prohibited. The applicant can seek alternative -- excuse me -- seek alternative compliance and ask for reduction in that buffer to allow for a display area and, again, that could happen at the time that they submit the certificate of zoning compliance application as well. So, really, that is a director determination and a staff level approval at that point. Staff has not received any written testimony on this application. At this time I would stand for any questions you have. Freeman: Thank you, Bill. Any questions of staff? Marshall: Mr. Chair, I do. Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: Bill, I'm sorry, you lost me a little bit. Talking about an ingress-egress right-in Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 39 of 49 only at the northeast corner. I see only ingress-egress here on the south boundary both to Meridian and to Main. Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Marshall, this will be an exit only, so folks coming into the facility will turn on Main Street -- going northbound on Main Street will turn and enter through the parking area and, then, there will be an exit here in the future. Right now it -- Marshall: They are not showing landscaping there. Parsons: They are now. This site plan doesn't reflect that change and we don't have a hundred percent verification from ACHD, so maybe the applicant can discuss his -- his meeting with ACRD and kind of provide some clarity on that for you. Marshall: All right. Thank you. Parsons: Thank you. Freeman: Anyone else? Would the applicant like to come forward? Please state your name and address for the record, please. Day: Good evening, Chairman and Commissioners. My name is John Day with DHE Architecture, 604 North 16th, Boise, Idaho. 83702. And we are before you requesting conditional use permit for a Tate's rental facility to be located at 203 South Main Street in Meridian, Idaho. We do recognize that there are some specific use standards or requirements from the City of Meridian and we are -- have worked with the city, we understand those, and we are more willing to abide by them all and so at this point I would open up to any questions and if you do have some specific questions regarding ACHD, I would be happy to answer those at this time. Freeman: Okay. Maybe you could start there, because we had a question. Day: Yes. So, as you probably -- at the site right now there are two curb cuts on Main Street, one on the south side of the location -- the property and one on the north side of the location. Original discussions with ACRD, they had determined that we were to close that curb cut. It is their policy to limit access onto an arterial street or main streets like this and we met with them Tuesday morning after we received their preliminary report and we discussed with them that due to the nature this facility the people that come and go from there, that we thought that this would be creating a serious hazard, because of -- to put it bluntly, we have a lot of amateurs with trailers and large trucks and so we would prefer to keep that north curb cut open to keep the flow of the traffic and through the picking up of equipment and through the propane services to keep that flow in and out and not congested, because not only do we have an existing building, but, then, we have an 35 foot landscape buffer which really pinched down and constricted the front of the building and so we met with them Tuesday morning, we pleaded our case, she called me back shortly thereafter and said that they would be Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 40 of 49 supporting our keeping the north -- northern curb cut open and that they would go in front of their commission the first of January on consent agenda and recommend approval on that, so -- and now if they were to change that opinion, you know, we would pursue whatever we need to do with them, but right now we have received preliminary approval and we think that it will go that way. Freeman: Sure. Having been one of those amateurs I think I understand why they agreed so readily. Day: Yes. Freeman: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. I don't have anybody signed up to offer public testimony. Was there anybody wishing to? Okay. Thank you very much. Are there any questions before we close the public hearing? Could I get motion to close the public hearing? Marshall: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: I move that we close the public hearing on CUP 12-018. O'Brien: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on CUP 12-018, Tate's Rents. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Any further discussion? O'Brien: I like it. Glad they are moving. Easier to get into for sure. Marshall: I have to admit I am typically very much against additional access points, but the minute the amateurs with trailers and wanting them to flow through as opposed to back up, I understand quickly that that could be beneficial for everyone. Freeman: It's good to see that the land is going to a good use in the middle of our city with all of the new changes that are going on with our circulation, so I commend your project. I'm for it, too. I need a motion, though, from somebody besides myself. Yearsley: Mr. Chair? Marshall: Oh. Go ahead. Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 41 of 49 file number CUP 12-018 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of December 6, 2012, with no modifications. I further move to direct staff to prepare an appropriate findings document to be considered at the next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing on December 20th, 2012. Marshall: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for CUP 12-018, Tate's Rents. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. H. Public Hearing: PP 12-014 Karmelle by Providence Management, LLC Located East of S. Eagle Road and South of E. Victory Road Request: Preliminary Plat Approval of 43 Residential Lots and 12 Common Lots on 16.13 Acres in an R- 4Zoning District Freeman: Last item on the agenda is PP 12-014. I'd like to open the public hearing for that and begin with the staff report. Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The next item is Karmelle Subdivision. It is located on the south side of East Victory Road, east of South Eagle Road. This property is currently zoned R-4 within the city and consist of 16.1 acres of land. It was originally annexed in 2006 and platted as part of the Harcourt Subdivision. With the approval of that property -- annexation of that property a development agreement was not required and the plat has -- the old plat has since expired. One thing I would like to note to you as well, if you look on the zoning map here on the left-hand side, there are a couple properties there were sold off as a result of the developer trying to hold onto the property and are no longer part of this development tonight. It would be this parcel here and, then, this five acre piece along the south side of East Falcon Drive as well. So, surrounding this site is Sutherland Farms to the north and it's zoned R-4 currently within the city as well and, then, a majority of this property around here is still county residences zoned RUT and most of these lots were planned back -- were platted back in the county in the -- I think early '70s with five acre lots and these are just several of those lots being subdivided within the city as well. So, here is the plat that the applicant is proposing. It consists of 43 residential lots and 12 common lots. Access from this plat is from -- one from Locust Grove -- or, excuse me, Victory Road that aligns with Sutherland Farms here and, then, the second public street access is from East Falcon Drive along the south boundary as well and, then, the applicant is proposing two stub streets along the east boundary for future connectivity. I'd also mention to you that density for this plat is 2.67 acres -- or units to the acre, which is consistent with the low density designation in the Comprehensive Plan and that minimum lot size is 8,900 square feet, all the way up to 10,600 square feet, and all of the lots do comport to the dimensional standards of the R-4 zone as well. If -- go back to the aerial here you can see there are several Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 42 of 49 structures that exist on the property. The applicant is proposing to remove those during the construction of the subdivision on the site, with the exception of this one, which is currently platted -- or it is going to be platted around. The landscape plan, I'm sorry, it was multiple pages, so I will try to do my best here. Along this street here is the required 25 foot landscape buffer. This is actually in excess of what the code requires as well. Then they have some street buffers here. A large central open space here with a tot lot as their amenity and, then, there is a 7,200 square foot lot here with an amenity, a sitting area amenity here, and, then, the rest of the landscape areas as just, basically, remnant pieces that would be landscaping, kind of just defined street names as well. would mention to you that some of these open space lots do not count towards qualifying open space in the UDC, so the staff report does reflect that, they are deficient .10 acres of open space, which equates to roughly 4,300 square feet. I have had discussions with the applicant's representative and I think we have come up with some work able solutions that we can handle at the time of final platting. So, there are no changes for you this evening to discuss, but I think we are all on the same page as to how we need to move forward. One thing that I did want to mention to you is that there are two lots here that front on East Falcon Drive. This plan does not show any street improvements along that roadway. Staff does not have a staff report from ACHD as to what they are going to require there. To my knowledge they are going to require the street frontage improvements there. The one thing that I did want to mention to Commission that because this application -- this property is not part of the plat and we have no mechanism to require those improvements, it will be a remnant parcel zoned R-4 out here, with no services to the property at this time. The applicant will stub to that property with their subdivision improvements, but the city cannot require that -- that homeowner to connect at this time. The applicant has provided some sample elevations. You can see it's a mix of materials, highlighted entries, covered porches. Staff is recommending a conditional approval that they comply with these elevations. Staff has received written testimony from the adjacent neighbor to the west Mr. Bob Aldridge. I believe you have his concerns in your packet this evening. He wants to make sure his water rights are protected and that the applicant will -- hopefully the applicant is willing to construct a beige six foot vinyl fence along the western subdivision boundary. He's stated in his letter that he lets his neighbors use that as a horse pasture and he's fearful if there is a wooden fence there the horses would gnaw on that. So, I believe he has discussed these conditions or these provisions with the applicant. I don't know if the applicant is in agreement with them. I'm sure they can add some light on that, but I will let them address that as well. And, then, we did receive verbal from the applicant, they are in agreement with the conditions in the staff report. Other than written testimony from Bob, staff is recommending approval and at this time I would stand for any questions you have. Freeman: Thank you. Questions? Marshall: This -- excuse me. Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 43 of 49 Marshall: Bill, the C-C property to the left, is there any plans for that currently? I mean it's already zoned. So, is there -- Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Marshall, that -- if you -- that was the Shops At Victory I believe and it was subdivided back in 2010. The plat is still active through a time extension. One thing that I did fail to mention that the applicant is proposing a pedestrian connection to that development as part of this development and it's part of the pond lot here. You can see the pathway is right there and that's generally consistent to the pathway connection that was provided from the commercial development as well. So, we get some of that connectivity with that development as well and at one time -- I believe it was Walgreen's was looking to develop on that site with a couple of additional pad sites. Marshall: I'd just be curious to recall what all the buffering is between here and the C-C, because you have got -- you have got lots backing up to this. The C-C is not developed and these lots could develop first and, then, suddenly we have already got an approved C-C development that could develop right behind them without their ever knowing. So, I'm kind of curious as to what's going in right behind this potentially. Friedman: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Marshall, as Bill stated, we have a live plat on that right now and I believe there is a development agreement on that. It's highly likely that given the state of flux on that property and nobody really knows, including the parties that are responsible for it -- I don't have a crystal ball, but the way things have been going there is a very good chance you would probably see some form of a development agreement modification and if that is the case that would require a public hearing before the City Council with appropriate notice to adjacent property owners. Marshall: Got you. Thank you. Parsons: Mr. Chairman? Freeman: Yes. Bill. Parsons: If I could elaborate on that for you as well. As I stated earlier, this property was annexed before that C-C was, so more than likely when we evaluated that C-C zoning we probably required that -- that buffering between residential zone and that commercial property as well. Marshall: Thank you. Freeman: Any other questions of staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward? Please state your name and address for the record. And that will be for both of you, if you're both going to speak. Wonders: Good evening, Commissioners. Scott Wonders with JUB. 250 South Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 44 of 49 Beachwood Avenue, Suite 201, Boise. 83709. And with me is Zack Evans. Evans: Zach Evans. 688 East Giant Saguaro, Meridian, Idaho. 83646. Wonders: I appreciate Bill doing an overview for the project. Zach would be here to answer. He's the owner and builder -- part builder to you for the project. So, I'd like to go over a couple items. I did meet with staff yesterday in regards to the open space requirement. I think with a few minor tweaks on some of the open space we shouldn't have any problems with meeting the ten percent and, you know, without really any -- any significant or any really changes to the lot layouts. In regards to the Bob's letter, Bob Aldridge's letter, we are in agreement to putting up the vinyl fencing and the only caveat I have on the irrigation is we will provide the access and everything to that, but it's -- I just need to make sure that it's subject to Boise Project Board of Control approval that whatever we do to provide access to him that we get their concurrence and if they require him to do something else that's kind out of our control. So, other than that we are more than happy to work with Bob on putting that in, providing that access that he needs for the irrigation. So -- and just -- we just have to go through the Boise Project Board of Control for their approval and I just want to make sure that if they require of him something additional that -- you know, that involves different -- the project and Bob to work out. So, I can't promise something that the board may require of him. That's -- believe really don't have any .control over. So, it's just a minor deal there. As far as Falcon Drive, we did propose and request from ACHD that we go with a rural section, basically a borrow ditch. Falcon Drive currently is a rural road. It doesn't have curb or gutter, it's just -- basically you have a borrow ditch on both sides and we wanted to maintain that. We haven't received ACHD's staff report yet. I believe that they wanted us to go ahead and put the curb and gutter in. Our request was to leave it as a rural section, similar to what's out there right now. That was our original request. Obviously, we will work with ACHD once we get that report and we have significant -- we have enough room on that frontage if we have to put in the curb and gutter and sidewalk, we won't have to change the site plan at all. We have met with a lot of the neighbors surrounding the project. We have three neighbors, Bob is one of them, and, then, we have the one that's, obviously, impacted the most in the middle, that's the -- kind of what I call the remnant piece and we realize as we go through the engineering and design process we will be working with them closely on -- on where we provide stubs for utilities, et cetera, and, then, basically, I have gone over with the adjacent property owner to the south as where our fencing is going to go and their main concern was whether their trees would be impacted or not and I think for the most part I don't think we are going to have any significant issues with that as well. So, with that, you know, I'm here to answer any other questions. We concur with all of staffs recommendations of approval and with that, if Zach has anything to add. Freeman: Did you have anything to add? Are there any questions? No? No questions, so thank you. I did have one person sign up to offer testimony. Harold Krasinski. And, please, state your name and address for the record. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 45 of 49 Krasinski: My name is Harold Krasinski at 3475 East Falcon Drive. I'm -- that's the property directly to the south and as Scott mentioned, we have talked about the property line. We did get a little bit of a surprise when it was surveyed that the property line was actually on the other side of a fence that had been on our north side, but I think we probably can work those things out and one of the things we had discussed at our neighborhood meeting with Scott and Zach was similar vinyl fence that what Bob Aldridge's is asking for and, hopefully, we can come to some agreement to put a consistent fence line around the property, so that we get a little bit of buffer. So, in general, don't really have -- fairly neutral on the project and I'm assuming they will be agreeable to work with us on any details along the property line. One thing I hadn't thought of until everyone was talking about pathways is there is -- on the project they show -- there is a pathway shown. I think mostly it's going along the McDonald Lateral, as we are going to bury that -- yeah. Right about in there. Thank you. And I'm not sure what happens along a right of way like that. Currently all of the properties were originally pastures, they are all fenced off and I'm just curious about how that would terminate at our property line where the lateral goes through, just so we don't wind up getting a thoroughfare of people -- because our property is actually split by the lateral, McDonald Lateral. We have roughly three-quarters of an acre on the north side and, then, the rest of our acres is on the south. I'm just hoping there is some good way to solve that problem, so it doesn't become a thoroughfare for dirt bikes, mountain bikes, whatever. So, I don't know if that's something that's part of their development or if that's something we need to work out with the irrigation project. Freeman: Okay. We will have staff address that. Krasinski: Very good. Thank you. I think that's pretty much all I have to say, unless anyone has any questions. Freeman: Any questions? All right. Thank you very much. Krasinski: Thank you. Freeman: Was there anybody else wishing to offer testimony? Please state your name and address for the record. Travis: Kenneth Travis. 3432 Falcon Drive. I'm the person who is impacted the most, having the property that's surrounded. I'm neutral. I don't know whether it's going to be good or bad, but just wanted to express some concerns just for the record. Our well is not on our property, it's just south of it. That might be good for maybe the open area. We have the deed to the well. And the fences around our property could really make a significant difference. For example, if we have a six foot vinyl fence to the south we open the front door and we will be staring at this fence. I also noticed on the plat that there is -- it looked like a tot playground right next to our property line. We have a pond there. We have a dog. So, these are just concerns that we have that we -- the devil is in the details. So, depending on how well we work with the subdivision it will really hurt us. Thank you. Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 46 of 49 Freeman: Was there anyone else? Okay. Before we close the public hearing I would like to ask staff to address some of the questions we just heard about. The path. Parsons: Sure. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that -- one thing I failed to mention in my overview of the project is if it's on a lateral it is currently -- it's an open canal that runs through the property this direction. The applicant will be relocating that and tiling that and it goes through to pond lot here, goes along the open space lot here, cuts through that central open space and, then, terminates down through here on this common lot here. There is no pathway planned for that. I mean it makes no sense to get anything at this point, because we just don't know how that's going to develop in the future. There is no -- there is nothing designated on the master pathway plan for any connectivity there. So, there is nothing planned for that site. Actually, the landscape plan omitted that lot and it's been conditioned that they provide landscaping details with the final plan. So, we can address that, but staff is not recommending a micropath of pedestrian connection to that gentlemen's property. Freeman: Okay. Thank you. And the applicant, if you would like to come forward and address anything that you have heard. Name again. Wonders: Yeah. Scott Wonders with JUB. Freeman: Thank you. Wonders: Yeah. Bill is correct. We -- with the restrictions that the irrigation company puts on in regards to those easements, they don't want trees in there, so we will probably end up just having grass and shrubbery in there within that easement, but certainly no pathway. We wouldn't want to promote pedestrian traffic along the irrigation canal. Fencing -- we are going to be consistent with the fencing material throughout the subdivision, so we will continue the -- obviously, the vinyl fencing around the perimeter. And, then, obviously, we can work with the adjacent property owners again, like I said previously, once we get into the details of the design to make sure that, you know, we become a good neighbor, too, and we provide notification of what we are planning on doing, so -- Freeman: Okay. Wonders: And I think I have addressed everything, so if you had any questions I -- Freckleton: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Where did the Mr. Chair come from? Commissioner O'Brien? Freckleton: Right here. Freeman: Oh. Go ahead. Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 47 of 49 Freckleton: Mr. Chairman and Scott, if I could address a question to Scott with regard to the gentleman's testimony with regard to his well being outside of his boundaries of his property and off into what would be the subdivision. I was wondering how you're going to address that and what kind of plan you have there. Wonders: Yeah. Absolutely. One of the things we are going to try to do is -- or not try. One of the things we will be doing is, obviously, researching, you know, the location of those and whether, you know, we would still have a viable buildable lot based on the restrictions that we have for where that well is presently located. I don't have an exact location of that well right now. I have a legal description that goes around it, but I don't know where the actual well is. So, we will work with that and we will try to obviously if we have some issues with a buildable lot issue, then, we will address it at that time. But even sewer -- obviously, we are going to be stubbing sewer on two -- or having sewer on both sides of the lot, so we will try to figure out where the most appropriate location is to provide that sewer lateral, so that they can connect to it in the future, as well as water, for that matter, to connect to city -- city services and that may be the alternative that we go with with the water if the well is, you know impacting -- if we can come to an agreement with the adjacent property owner to maybe have that connected to city services as well, so -- Freckleton: Mr. Chair, just a follow up if I might. Sorry. Freeman: It's a new voice. I don't know where to look for it. Freckleton: I apologize. With regard to the sewer stub and the potential for water there, too, city ordinance does require that if services are provided outside the city limits that the parcel that they are provided to have to annex into the city. So, that's just something to keep in mind. I know this parcel is outside and there wasn't a desire to come in at this point in time. So, just throw that out. Wonders: I believe I -- Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is annexed into the city. So, it is part of the city. It was part of the original -- it was part of the original Harcourt Subdivision and, then, when the previous owner had financial issues it was part of -- Freckleton: I stand corrected. Wonders: It is part of it, so I hope I have clarified that. Freckleton: You did. Thank you. O'Brien: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Thank you. I have one quick question. Just to verify the six foot tall baige Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 48 of 49 fence, is that going to be a privacy fence or open? Wonders: Yeah. It would be solid. O'Brien: Solid. Okay. All right. Just wanted to verify that. Thank you. Freeman: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you very much. Wonders: Thank you. Freeman: I need a motion, then, to close the public hearing. O'Brien: So moved. Yearsley: Second. Freeman: I need to find where I'm at. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing for PP 12-014, Karmelle Subdivision. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Discussion. Who would like to start? Nobody would like to start. Commissioner Yearsley would like to start. Yearsley: You know, I think it's kind of a -- not a difficult situation, but trying to work with the different homeowners, I think they are -- it sounds like they are in good faith trying to alleviate their concern. I personally would recommend the urban section on those two lots on Falcon just because I know having to go back and do it at a later date is really hard for those and so to have it done now just makes it a lot cleaner personally. But I will let ACHD make that decision. So -- but I think it sounds good. Freeman: Thank you. Anyone else? O'Brien: I don't have anything to add to that. Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: At the very least I do like that the pond is on that northwest corner up against the C-C. That does leave two lots that will abut it, but I'm in hopes that the DA that exists on that property now will provide some buffer to those lots. I don't like to see those have commercial behind them that they didn't know about. And I do like the idea that there is some connectivity there that people in the neighborhood could walk across. I also like the fact that that pathway headed off to the south is not going to connect to somebody else's property. Since it's not a pathway at all, but simply an easement. I'm for it. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission December 6, 2012 Page 49 of 49 Freeman: A motion? Yearsley: Mr. Chairman? Freeman: Commissioner Yearsley. Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to the City Council of file No. PP 12-014 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of December 6, 2012, with no modifications. O'Brien: Second. Freeman: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval for PP 12-014, Karmelle Subdivision. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: Thank you very much. One more motion. Marshall: Mr. Chair? Freeman: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: I move we adjourn. Rohm: Second. Yearsley: Second. Freeman: A motion and several seconds to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Freeman: We are adjourned. Thank you very much. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:35 P.M. 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