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Draft Minutes March 7, 2012A. Continued from February 28, 2012: AP 12-001 Request: Appeal for a City Council Review of the Director's Denial of an Accessory Use Permit (AUP 12-001) for a Home Occupation by Lee White Located at 1750 N. Ten Mile Road De Weerd: So, I will move to Item No. 10, Action Item 10-A is continued from February 28th on AP 12-001. I will ask for comments from Mr. Baird. Baird: Madam Mayor, I can help kick this off. Mr. Nary advised me on what happened this week. As the agenda states, this is a continuation of a hearing from last week. Staff was directed to meet with Mr. White and work out issues as best they could. During the intervening week legal staff, planning staff, building department staff, met with Mr. White. My understanding they did resolve the attachment issue. I understand that Mr. White has agreed to attach his dwelling to the accessory dwelling to resolve that portion of the situation. Outstanding issues tonight include access, parking, screening -- those are the ones I'm aware of. There may be others. So, I will hand it over to Madam Mayor and the Council to decide how to proceed tonight. De Weerd: Okay. And I must apologize in advance since I was not here last week for the discussion to know what the outstanding issues are and so, Council, I would ask if you have any comments, any questions at this point? Baird: Madam Mayor, before the Council interjects, I understand that last week the public did have an opportunity to comment. The intention tonight was that the Council would not take further public comment, but perhaps you would inquire of Mr. White and see if that's -- how the Council wishes to deal with the appeal. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: I have no problem if Mr. White would like to -- has got anymore to add or anything, I have no problem with that. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. White, if you will, please, join us. I understand you received designation last week as man of Meridian or man of the year, so, you know, I'm honored to have you in front of us again this evening and if you will, please, state your name and address for the record. White: Lee White. 1750 North Ten Mile Road, Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. White: Thank you for the designation. De Weerd: And I do understand that you have met with staff and have tried to work out the number of suggestions and issues that were raised in last week's discussion, so I will ask you to provide comment. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 2 of 55 White: Okay. I have prepared about a three minute comment here if I might. De Weerd: Well, that's great, because I also understand that Mr. Hoaglun's a lot more free with his time than I am. So, you have three minutes. Go. No. I'm turning it over to you. White: Thank you, ma'am. I stand before you tonight as a strong proponent of free enterprise and the right to be an entrepreneur and limited government. Those things are important to me and I try to live within that realm. I also come before -- well, you have already said that -- as a person that's loved by some, hated by others, and admired by a few. De Weerd: We know how that feels. White: Yes. Very true. I have had a lot of favorable comments. In fact, I had a phone call this evening. What's happening with you and the city. I don't see anything out there. Would like to see you back doing business. So, we are going to work toward that end. We did -- oh. We ended up last week with some ideas that I have taken home, reviewed, and we will discuss them. But, first, we heard from Councilman Rountree that he also made shovels -- made and sold shovel handles and he told me they had to be better than mine, so I kind of offered the idea that I would like to come and see what he does and how he does it and waited all week for an invitation. Never happened. So, I guess I'm not on the guest list. Competition is a good thing and the two of us have something in common that is kind of a lost art. There are about five issues -- either five or six issues that were discussed. One of them I received these notes directly from the city clerk via e-mail. The first one said nothing in the front yard that relates to sales, including signs. Here is what I have written. No problem. I haven't had anything of any kind or sign that relates to sales since the last year sale and the kids' yard sale that I had last year. The existing sign on the north fence is that of a service performed -- that I perform for the community. As you heard last week, it's a landmark, which is getting fame far and wide in some of our neighboring states. When telling someone where I live at Ten Mile and Cherry, they say Ten Mile and Cherry, anywhere near that guy that replaces shovel handles and I say, yes, I know exactly where you are. So, it's a landmark and, therefore, I would deem it as a historical point of significance. It's been there long enough that people know where it is and what it is and how to find me. It is not relating to sales. Number two. On the back garage -- this is quoted directly from the e-mail. On the back garage the separate facility, a professional sign that says that Mr. White does -- and in parenthesis not hand painted or done with stencils -- would have to meet the sign code. I haven't come up with an exact sign, but I have some people working on them. Here is one that I just had the one copy. If you want to pass it around I will bring it to -- De Weerd: Yes. If you will give it to Madam Clerk over there. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 3 of 55 White: It, in essence, states my mission statement and I think it has some merit. We can discuss that. Mission statement meaning -- or saying that I repair, rebuild, and recycle. And, number four, try to be a good neighbor. So, the circle shows recycling the shovels. One of the things I repair and the wording is self-explanatory. Would be open for suggestions. If that is -- if we are on the right track for a sign. I think we are. Okay. Number three item was materials stored in back -- your back yard. A fence that would not allow vision. Doesn't care what size. He's suggesting that on the fence -- it went blank. There is nothing further recorded at that point. I don't fully understand -- thank you -- all that I need to I suppose there. But there already exists a four foot fence that closes off a major part of the view from Ten Mile and from Walgreens to my property. You can see the pictures and I can't. You have to really focus on anything if you want to see the shop from Ten Mile Road. So, as you're driving down Ten Mile Road and want to see it back there at the shop, you're not paying attention to your driving and might cause an accident. I don't know. I think we need to have some discussion on that. But if you want me to go through the rests of the items first -- shall we do it that way? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Yes. That would be great. White: Okay. Let's do. Number four. Creating a tunnel from your home to that back garage that might have a canvas top. Might have a vine covering it. But it will have something that connects the structures, so that they are not separate. In discussing this with Mr. Nary, Kristi, and a man from the building department, we came up with the notion that we would have a solid piece of two by four -- or four by -- excuse me. Two by six running building to building, fashioned to the buildings on double legs at intervals of 20 feet. Makes it secure. Makes it an adequate piece of merchandise to fulfill the requirement. The main reason for this is that if we go to putting a cover of any kind on that we are in a wind tunnel. Damage can be extreme and totally unnecessary. The only problem or question I have is what is this doing to the property valuation -- assessment valuation? What will it do for my insurance? But I think that I'm willing to take that and put it up, so that it will work. I had a drawing here and wouldn't you know I left it. I have one. When you see that realize that I'm not an architect. Here is a vague idea of what we can do. I have a double row on that, but I - - I believe after further analysis a single two by six secured with four-by-four double posts, 20 foot intervals, will make it a very strong and nice looking piece of structure and that's what we want. We want it to look nice and be able to fulfill the requirements of the permit. Hoaglun: Well, I think, Madam Mayor and Mr. White, you know, it may satisfy us, but your wife may be the one you really ought to satisfy in how it looks, so -- White: Point taken. Point well taken. Okay. That's pretty much that one. Number five. That the goods sold would be stored in the evening. This is a wide open one. Not much description of what we needed. But I assume from that that we might be intending to leave my display on the outside of the wooden fence and bring it in at night. If we take it just to the east of my front -- back yard dividing fence this would be Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 4 of 55 a good thing, out of the way, not causing any traffic hazards, any problems and people would be able to park further back toward the well house and meet that requirement. That is -- now, wait a minute. Number six. Any approval granted to this particular application would be subject to revocation by the city with 30 days notice and approval would go with -- would not go with the property if it sold. With the understanding at the present time that Ten Mile is to be widened within a one to two year period, that means they are going to be supposedly taking somewhere between ten and 15 feet off my frontage. That means my property is totally worthless as a residence. I would not be able to back out of my garage, enter into the garage, without being in a very dangerous position. So, 30 day notice -- or going with the property, that's an understood thing. It would not go, because there aren't any -- very many people that are going to want to continue doing recycling and things that I do. I would like to know on what grounds the revocation would be and who the enforcement people are and the guidelines. We would have to work through that. That's -- that's my part of the presentation. I think we need to have questions and answers. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. White. Counsel, any questions? White: Don't stump me, please. Rountree: Madam Mayor, there is a couple things that were brought up earlier. Access and parking is an issue. Apparently the property doesn't have a deeded access to that back portion, that back garage. It's either owned by Walmart or it's owned by the adjacent property owner, at least that was my understanding, and that really and truly, not only for our benefit, but particularly Mr. White's benefit, he needs to get written permission from the property owners to, one, allow access on that personal property -- White: I have it. Rountree: -- and also allow parking on that personal property and if you do have that that would be something that would be needed -- be required with submission of an application for permit. You mentioned a couple questions about no signing in the front yard and that means what it says. No signing in the front yard. Your sign on the fence, in my opinion, is not an historic monument. At a minimum it would have to be 50 years old to meet any definition of that and have some regional significance. Your sign -- and I will just give you my comments -- is just fine, as long as it meets the sign code. I don't have any dimensions on it. and I don't have my calculator to compute what six square feet is on a circle, but it has to be six square feet or less to meet the sign code. I got a question about materials stored in the backyard out of the view. That means what it says. You will notice -- if you will turn around and look and the pictures, you have a bunch of material that's stored outside of a fence and apparently in a driveway and the parking apron in front of your garage. That is not consistent with city ordinance in and of itself, let alone with any business activity. So, that needs to be stored behind a fence in the backyard out of view. White: That can be taken care of very easily. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 5 of 55 Rountree: That -- please. Your arbor for connecting the house is -- and I think that's a grand idea and you can grow grapes out there or do whatever you want on that to make it even esthetic, so -- so, you and your wife and Brad can get together on that. Goods sold -- if they are out for public view, it means what it says, they are to be stored out of view in the evening. And as far as revocation, the revocation would be based on any significant issues related to the activity on the property or any violations of the conditions of any permit that might be granted, just like any other application or permit in the city and that would be done by code enforcement. Observation, based on what I re-word from last week, you said a number of times that money is not an issue and a number of people testified saying it's not an issue for Mr. White. So, I take it from that that this is more of a hobby and I can appreciate that and hobbies certainly are something we would encourage on a residential property and keep in mind this is a residential property. It is not a business if were a business you should be very worried about the fact your insurer probably isn't insuring it as a commercial establishment and you don't have liability insurance covering a commercial establishment. You're not paying property taxes for a commercial property. There is a lot of things you're not doing by saying you're running a business in a residence. So, I'd like to keep this in the realm of a hobby and I would suggest that you might want to think about that as well. So, those were the conditions and some of them you suggested, some of them I suggested, some of them I picked from what was said in the discussion when I gave you the list last week. I'm comfortable with those, the way they have been explained, to move forward with this. If you're not comfortable with those, then, it's up to the Council to either figure out another way to make this work or -- or do it -- I don't think any of us want to do necessarily is -- is uphold the denial. But I guess -- and for your opening statement -- I don't know that I said mine were better than yours, but I alluded that they might be pretty nice and after all of this is resolved and this isn't an application before the city, when we can actually talk and it's not considered ex-parte, you're welcome to come to my shop anytime and see the one shovel I have left that you can -- actually it's not even a shovel, it's a -- it's a spading fork, but it's -- it's the one I have that hasn't been either given away or broken or whatever. But, anyway, so -- White: If you need a replacement I know where a guy could -- Rountree: Well, I do, too, so -- White: Okay. May I ask a question? De Weerd: Yes, sir. White: Madam Mayor, it hasn't been totally clarified where I am going to be allowed to display my merchandise that I have as a hobby that I can bring it in at night. Can we come to some idea on that? Am I going to be okay there on the south side of the wooden fence -- the east side of my dividing line -- dividing line between front and back yards? Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 6 of 55 Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'll offer an opinion on that. I -- if that is your property you can display it out there. If that's not your property I can't -- I can't give permission one way or another. I suggested when you clean all the materials off of your apron, your garage or your parking pad, that there is going to be sufficient room to display a lot of stuff out there that you might want to sell. But, again, my comments are that has to be cleaned off and that material has to be stored in some other location out of view. White: Not a problem. Rountree: You have got a lot of stuff there. I'm not sure that you and I both could make something out of that in the rest of our days, but -- White: I have quite a bit of firewood there. Rountree: Yes, you do. White: As soon as the firewood season starts again that will be chopped up and put out for the public to purchase and use in their camp fires. Hoaglun: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I have just a comment and follow up with a question with Mr. White. The way I saw it, you know, goods stored in the evening and the materials in the backyard, I was even thinking last week that you have a fence that opens up that allows access -- you're able to see everything that you're offering or that you want to display and in the evenings to store it, to get it out of view, you can just close that fence. That was kind of something I had in mind last week when we were talking about this as a way to -- whether it slides or opens or what have you -- as a possibility to -- and that way it's stored for the night, it meets that criteria, you don't have to move everything back and forth, but that kind of was my thinking on that. White: That's acceptable. And there is a double gate that opens there. Can't see it. Hoaglun: On the other -- that one on the lower left, I think that's part of it there. To the far left. White: That's it. Yeah. You can see part of the gate right in there. Somebody's moving the worm. Hoaglun: We are at the far left in the yard part; correct? Where you will display your items? White: Right -- bring the arrow down. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 7 of 55 Hoaglun: And, then, swing it -- White: I can display it there. If you will let me, I will continue to do it -- yeah. Up -- top left picture. Oh, it switched on me. Hoaglun: There we go. White: Top left picture. About halfway down where the cement is, down in that area -- Hoaglun: Uh-huh. White: Am I touching this and that's making it move? De Weerd: Uh-huh. White: Okay. Five or ten feet at the end of that curb is a good area. It's out -- it's a safe area to put things out. I would like to keep the firewood in that area. People can, then, make the turn and come out. They are not causing any traffic problems. Pick that up. I would like to move the rest of the stuff on back toward the area we were talking about in the top right picture. After that those railroad ties and that dirt is moved and the two by fours are chopped up for firewood that area will be cleaned and if that's okay with the group we are okay. Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just to clarify. Which side of the fence is that firewood on? Is it on the street side or is it on your yard side? White: It has to be on the street side to be visible for people to see. And that is not a street, it's a road, which is half owned by Walgreens, half owned by the neighbor behind me. I have permission for the use on the half owned by the neighbor behind me with their blessings, as long as I keep the place neat. So, I have got to neaten it up a little bit there in back. Rountree: Yes, you do. Hoaglun: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? Just a couple of comments, I guess, for -- to some extent for the record. In accordance with our ordinances I would clarify that, of course, the director was right to follow the ordinances and deny this. It's now before us to make an exception and on that note I would like to express my appreciation to Councilman Rountree for the suggestions he has made that would move this forward. Those two things said, I'm still fuzzy on a couple of things. My vision of the discussion last week was that the area between this access road, which is half owned by your neighbor and Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 8 of 55 half owned by Walgreens, between there and this building that we are looking at -- in other words, what I would say is the pad leading to a garage or the separate shop, it was my understanding that that would be cleaned entirely and, therefore, would become available for parking if you had -- I guess customers isn't the right word, but people that are coming to share your enthusiasm and your hobby. Whether the materials that are there are put behind the fence or put on the north side of the shop garage building isn't something I need to decide, you can decide where you'd rather have it, but I want to make sure that we are clear that none of it stays on that pad south of the building; is that correct? White: None of what? One more time. Zaremba: I didn't hear that. White: None of what? Zaremba: All the stuff that's currently stored outside -- all the stuff that's on what I would assume is a driveway into that building. There is a cursor moving around on the screen that I'm looking at. The area that's being circled should be cleaned. Is that the direction that we are going? White: On the outside of the fence? Yes. Inside the fence has to be used for the storage display area. Rountree: No. Zaremba: Well, display of things you make, not display of -- White: Excuse me? Zaremba: Display of things that you make or improve or have finished your recycling effort on, not display of raw materials. I don't think we are envisioning anything that's sitting there now staying there. White: I said that would be moved and taken care of. Zaremba: Yeah. Okay. White: That will be cleaned. Zaremba: Okay. All right. White: Yeah. I have no problem with -- Zaremba: All right. We are together on that one, then. Thank you. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 9 of 55 White: Very good. Zaremba: Then the other I was a little confused about your introductory discussion about a sign. It isn't necessarily about what's on the sign, but I thought the direction that we were going was, essentially, no signage in front of your house, including that north fence. But your discussion was that that sign would remain. So, I'm not clear on what everybody's intent was. I was thinking there would be no sign -- the only sign on the property would be -- this is fine if that's an example, but that would be the only sign on the property -- anywhere on the property. White: I have reservations on removing the one in the front. If you want it rebuilt, redone, I think that it is a -- I use the term landmark for the community -- we were told last week by a young lady that it was on Twitter or what have you in California and Oregon and it's something that's -- I'd like to keep it. I think it brings friendly people to have comment, make phone calls to me. It's a conversation piece. I really would like to see it stay. I have a problem with not having anything else on the front yard, but that one is kind of dear and near to me I guess is what I'm saying. Zaremba: Well, I agree with you that it's noticeable and it sort of adds character, but we are still struggling with the issue that this is a residential property and we are trying to figure out how to allow things that we don't allow on residential properties, because your property is unique and I recognize that, so I guess I would listen to some other discussion. My thinking was there would be no sign, but I'm not the only opinion here, so -- White: Well, I have stated my feelings on it. I -- it's near and dear to me and I think that I have done quite a bit here to comply with the balance of the requirements that are being placed in order to get the permit. I think there needs to be a little give and take. There is -- you're to be commended for what you have done so far. I appreciate it. De Weerd: Well, Mr. White, being somewhat neutral, since I wasn't here last week, I think there has been great compromise on both sides, but the -- what you see Council is trying to do here is find not only a compromise, but something they feel comfortable that they would apply evenly and fairly to all residents, so they are not giving preferential treatment to any one person and that is a fine balance sometimes. White: Can't argue the point with you, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: So, Council, the other members, do you want to weigh in? Do you have any comments on what has been discussed to date or so far this evening? Bird: Nothing has been said that I -- what I would say has already been said, so -- De Weerd: Okay. So, I guess to recap for where I think we are, is that if Mr. White can give the city documentation on the access and parking agreement with the neighbor I Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 10 of 55 believe to the east of him to use that area, that people can park along, is what the city is looking for. The sign looks -- looks appropriate. It's very nice, I would add. Would need to work with Planning staff to make sure it does fit the criteria as in once dimensions are known. The fencing -- I think what, Mr. White, they are looking for is screening, so that -- that on your probably chain link you can put slating in it to provide the screening, so -- White: At what point, ma'am? All of the south chain link fence? De Weerd: No. I just think along the front of it, so it's screened from the street. Is that my understanding from Council? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: That -- that opens up the parking lot of -- can you hear me, Dean? De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Anyway, that -- that fence runs all along there in the parking lot. That -- you can see all the way back to the east end of his property on that. If you're going to -- you should slab the whole thing. My opinion that should be all undercover and -- I don't know, I -- I want to see us be able to work out a solution, so we can have it, but I've got a real problem -- you put a sign up, he puts firewood out for sale, his product is for sale. He wants to leave his sign in the front. How do you not -- how do you say it is a hobby and not a business and how do you not say it's a commercial piece of property? And if it's the only property in the city that we had to deal with these things, there would be no problem. But as sure -- I don't know. I don't know if our Planning and Zoning people or our attorneys can defend this or not. I mean I want to -- I don't want to see the guy have to give up his hobby, but at the same token I don't want to see us setting something out there that's going to come back to haunt us or haunt future councils. Baird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Baird. Baird: If I could engage in a discussion of our code's definition of a site obscuring fence. Bill over there is from the Planning Department and it's my understanding the slates do not meet that requirement. So, if it's appropriate you might want to hear from Bill Parsons on that. The other thing while I have the floor -- if the Council is inclined to grant the appeal, it would be my suggestion that you give staff direction to make specific findings, return with them in two weeks, so that staff in drafting those can listen to tonight's record. I'm not sure we have a meeting of the minds of what the Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 11 of 55 expectations are at this point. So, as you work towards that direction that's what staff will be looking for. Thank you. De Weerd: That is what I was trying to accomplish. Bill, could you perhaps give some -- enlighten us on the fencing requirements and what exactly is being requested. I -- and I guess what I would like to address -- and I understand, you know, the fencing looking in from Ten Mile and to at least the driveway, I don't understand why the fencing across the driveway would have to be obscured. But if you could maybe help provide some clarity on that. Parsons: Be happy to, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Because this is an accumulation of recycled material, we do allow for storage of materials on property as an accessory use. Under that specific section of code it's clearly specified that the fencing should be six feet in height and a solid material and so we are looking -- as far as a planning standpoint and the code standpoint, Mr. White's fence would need to be six feet in height and either be wood or vinyl or some -- some type of solid material and also if it is supposed to be screening material, then, it can't be chain link with slats, like Mr. Baird had mentioned earlier. So, I think that was the direction to you, Mr. White, from my understanding is that you would put up a six foot fence and block some of that from view. De Weerd: Okay. So, Bill, does that include the enclosure that covers the pad to the garage? I -- the garage door? White: No. That will not be fenced. De Weerd: Okay. Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think if he was to -- if he's going to keep it -- if he's going to move the junk -- excuse me -- the recycled material from outside of the fence and put it in the driveway, then, yes, he would need to screen that. If he was to just clean it up and, then, keep -- keep that stored in the driveway or just display his materials, I don't see why we would need to screen that. He's just displaying finished goods. He's not displaying raw material or his recycled materials for the neighbors to see. White: At what -- excuse me. At what point do you want this six foot fence located? I can see right -- I wish I could run the -- De Weerd: I guess, Mr. White, I will ask that staff meet with you to discuss those details, so we don't build the fence tonight, but you can -- you can kind of go over the details and make sure that we are all clear on what each other are agreeing to, so that when this does come back to Council there are no further questions. Does that seem reasonable? White: Sounds reasonable to me. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 12 of 55 De Weerd: Okay. So, at this point I believe that the City Council agrees that this is a nice sign that you have given us by your example, that the arbor does sufficiently connect the house to the garage. You will work the fence issues out with staff. Materials will be stored behind the fence and the removal of the sign from in front of your -- in front of the house, unless I'm hearing Council differently. I believe that was -- okay. And I know you -- White: There goes a landmark. De Weerd: -- are partial to that and you believe it is a landmark -- certainly not historical, because it hasn't been there long enough, but a landmark all the same, but because of the -- the residential designation that it -- that's not something that they can see fits within the allowed flexibility of what they are trying to accomplish here. So, the only remaining issue would be making sure to get details clear on the fencing and make sure we have a copy of the agreement for the access to the easement and parking is -- did I summarize that? Any further questions or topics that need further clarification? Zaremba: Madam Mayor? Rountree: I don't think so, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Not to throw -- yes to all of that. De Weerd: Okay. Zaremba: If that's the direction that we are thinking of going. I missed part of the discussion last week, so, again, if I'm asking a question that was discussed, please, forgive me, but are there other alternatives? I mean could this property be rezoned to a mixed use -- we can't rezone it to commercial, because, then, you can't live in it and we are struggling with it neither being fish nor fowl, but is there a possibility that this one piece of property could be rezoned to mixed use and solve some of these problems and have both the residence and a commercial on the same property? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba, at this point it's a timing issue. Zaremba: Yeah. I know. De Weerd: Finding something that can keep Mr. White in his hobby without that time lapse. I do think that next steps moving forward is it would -- it would be good for a discussion on these transitional uses and what we can look at longer term, because I don't imagine this will be the only property in -- in the city that might have these kind of issues, in particular as we started getting closer to that neighborhood level commercial and how that might impact other out-parcels similar to this. So, we would want to have Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 13 of 55 further discussion on that. Okay. So, thank you, Mr. White, for being here again and I guess I will ask, Bill, if you will be responsible for the follow up and setting up an appointment for Mr. White to go over the remaining details, so we can bring back findings for staff to -- or for Council to accept. Is next week too soon? Next week is a workshop, but if it's available and there is agreement on all sides, it could be put on the agenda. Baird: Madam Mayor, we do want to set it for a date certain and Bill Parsons is shaking his head that he thinks it's possible. We can certainly shoot for that. Let's -- in your motion you can move to set it to that date and if staff needs another week we will report to you at that time, but if we set it as a goal we will certainly try to meet that. I'm going to suggest that we come up with a map of the property designating the exact locations of certain types of fences, what will go where, where the firewood is and is not allowed, just so that there is no question about what -- what will be before you for approval. De Weerd: That would be great. Okay. Mr. Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Madam Mayor -- and assuming Mr. White would be available next week and everything gets worked out -- are you around, sir? White: I will make myself available. Hoaglun: And we work -- a workshop is an afternoon session, so we start at 3:00 o'clock, so -- White: I am retired. Hoaglun: Well, okay. My dad is retired, too, and he's busier now than he was I think when he was working. White: I don't know how I found time to go to work. Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I would move that we continue AP 12-001 to our next meeting March 13th , 1012. Bird: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Rountree: Madam Mayor, did the maker of the motion intend to have draft -- coordinate with Mr. White and prepare a draft findings for our consideration? Hoaglun: Yes. That -- as we discussed that staff would work with Mr. White and, then, there would be Findings of Fact and maps available and, hopefully, an agreement that can be presented to the Council. Meridian City Council March 7, 2012 Page 14 of 55 Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. White: Can I say aye? De Weerd: Absolutely. White: Thank you very much.