2011-08-23E IDIAN~-
IDAH
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR
MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, August 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance by Tim Brackus; Scout Troop 62 with the United
Methodist Church (Pg. 1)
3. Community Invocation by Gordon Slyter of Treasure Valley Worship
Center (Pg. 1-2)
4. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted (Pg. 2)
5. Consent Agenda Approved (Pg. 2-3)
A. Award of RFP and Agreement for "Ten Mile Interchange
Landscape Maintenance Services" to LawnCo for the Not-To-
Exceed Amount of $151,200.00 and Authorize the Mayor to
Sign the Agreement
B. Sewer and Water Main Easement for Touchmark of the
Treasure Valley, LLC
C. Development Agreement for Approval: AZ 09-001 Goff by
Garland Goff and Shannon Hamrick Located at 1725 W. Pine
Avenue: Request for Annexation and Zoning of 0.76 of an Acre
of Land with a C-N Zoning District
D. Professional Services Agreement Between Mayor's Anti-Drug
Coalition and L.E.A.D.E.R.S.H.I.P. 1st, LLC for Development
and Implementation of High School Sports Teams Leadership
and Anti-Drug Program for a Not-to-Exceed Amount of
$10,500.00
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 23, 2011 Page 1 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
6. Community Items/Presentations
A. Continued Public Hearing From April 19, 2011: Precious Metal
Dealers Ordinance Discussion (Pg. 3-11)
7. Items Moved From Consent Agenda (Pg. 11)
8. Action Items
A. Continued Public Hearing from August 17, 2010: VAR 08-008
Meridian and Amity by Hawkins Companies Located at the
Northwest Corner of W. Amity Road and S. Meridian Road,
South of Harris Street: Request for Variance to UDC 11-3H-4
Which Prohibits New Approaches From Directly Accessing a
State Highway to Allow 2 Right-In /Right-Out Access Points
(Approximately 660 Feet From the North and South
Intersections) and 1 Right-In /Right-Out, Left-In Access Point
at the 1/4 Mile to State Highway 69 /Meridian Road
Application Withdrawn (Pg. 11-12)
B. Public Hearing: MDA 11-005 Walmart-Overland/Stoddard by
Walmart Real Estate Business Trust Located Southeast Corner
of W. Overland Road and S. Stoddard Road Request:
Modification to the Existing Development Agreement to
Amend the Conceptual Development Plan and Certain
Sections of the Text of the Agreement in Accord with the
Proposed Changes to the Development Plan Approved
(Pg. 12-40)
C. Continued Public Hearing: TEC 11-003 Messina Meadows
Subdivision by Brighton Corporation Located North of E.
Amity Road; Midway Between S. Locust Grove Road and S.
Eagle Road Request: Two (2) Year Time Extension on the
Preliminary Plat Approved (Pg. 40-45)
D. Public Hearing: VAR 11-002 Regency at River Valley by The
Regency at River Valley, LLC Located at 2500 N. Eagle Road
Request: Variance to Unified Development Code (UDC) 11-3H-
4B to Allow a Temporary Right-in/Right-out Access for the Site
via N. Eagle Road Approved (Pg. 45-48)
E. Public Hearing: Proposed Fall 2011 Fee Schedule of the
Meridian Parks & Recreation Department (Pg. 48-49)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 23, 2011 Page 2 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
F. Resolution No. 11-800: A Resolution Adopting the Fee
Schedule of the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department;
Authorizing the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department to
Collect Such Fees; and Providing an Effective Date Approved
(Pg. 49-50)
G. Public Hearing: ZOA 11-003 UDC Text Amendment -Wine and
Beer Shops by Meridian Planning Department Request: Amend
the Text of Certain Sections of the Unified Development Code
(UDC) to Allow for Retail Wine and Beer Shops to Offer
Servings of Such for Purchase by the Bottle or Glass
Approved (Pg. 50-51)
H. Public Hearing: ZOA 11-004 UDC Text Amendment -Water
Conserving Landscapes by Meridian Planning Department
Request: Amend the Text of Certain Sections of the Unified
Development Code (UDC) to Encourage the Use of Water-
Conserving Landscape Designs Approved (Pg. 51-53)
I. Public Hearing: ZOA 11-005 UDC Text Amendment -Dispatch
Centers by Meridian Planning Department Request: Amend the
Text of Certain Sections of the Unified Development Code
(UDC) to Allow for Dispatch Centers for Mobile Services
Approved (Pg. 53-54)
9. Department Reports
A. Public Works/Building & Development Services Department
Report: Professional Services Contract Renewals for
Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing, Fire, and Structural
Inspectors (Pg. 61-72)
B. Parks Department: Discussion on the Proposal to Landscape
the Area Along Dawson Street by Ashford Greens
Homeowner's Association to City of Meridian/Lakeview Golf
Course Motion approved to bring proposals and an agreement
back on September 6, 2011 (Pg. 54-61)
C. Clerk's Office: Approval of New Beer and Wine License for
Wood-Wood Inc., dba Beef O'Bradys Located at 1505 S. Eagle
Rd. #190 Approved with Conditions (Pg. 72-73)
10. Ordinances
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 23, 2011 Page 3 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
A. First Reading of Ordinance No. 11-1488: An Ordinance
Amending Meridian City Code Section 3-5-2(A), Regarding
Pawnbrokers Dealing Precious Metals; Amending Section 3-5-
9(B)(4), Regarding Pawnbroker Records; Adding a New
Chapter, Chapter 9 to Title 3, Meridian City Code, Regarding
Precious Metal Dealers; Providing a Severability Clause; and
Providing an Effective Date (Pg. 73-74)
B. Ordinance No. 11-1489: An Ordinance Amending Title 1,
Chapter 7, Section, Paragraph (A) (2) of the Meridian City
Code, Regarding Time of City Council Workshop Approved
(Pg. 74)
C. Ordinance No. 11-1490: An Ordinance Amending Ordinance
No. 10-1456, the Appropriation Ordinance for the Fiscal Year
Beginning October 1, 2010 and Ending September 30, 2011
Appropriating Monies That are to be Received by the City of
Meridian in the Sum of $2,337,252.00 and Allocating
Expenditures Approved (Pg. 74-75)
D. Ordinance No. 11-1491: An Ordinance Providing for the
Adoption of a Budget and the Appropriation of $67,136,453.00
to Defray the Necessary Expenses and Liabilities of the City of
Meridian, for the Fiscal Year Beginning October 1, 2011 and
Ending on September 30, 2012 Approved (Pg. 75-76)
11. Future Meeting Topics
Adjourned at 10:53 p.m.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda -Tuesday, August 23, 2011 Page 4 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council August 23, 2011
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:02 p.m., Tuesday,
August 23, 2011, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Brad Hoaglun, David Zaremba, Keith Bird
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Pete Friedman, Sonya Watters, Jeff Lavey,
Michael de St. Germain, Perry Palmer, Bruce Freckleton, Brent Bjornson, Robert
Simison, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you for being here this evening and thank you for giving us a few
minutes into the 7:00 o'clock hour. I would like to welcome you to the City Council
meeting. For the record it is Tuesday, August 23rd. It's two minutes after 7:00. We will
start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance by Tim Brackus; Scout Troop 62 with the United
Methodist Church
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our Pledge of Allegiance. Tonight we are going to led by Tim
Brackus. He is with Scout Troop 62 that's sponsored by the United Methodist Church.
If you will all rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: Tim, I would like to invite you up to receive a City of Meridian pin and thank
you for leading us.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Gordon Slyter of Treasure Valley Worship
Center
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Gordon Slyter. He is with Treasure Valley Worship Center. If you will all join us in the
community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank
you forjoining us this evening.
Slyter: Father in Heaven, we again thank you for the many blessings we enjoy here.
We thank you, Lord, for our city, for our leaders, those who work to make this
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 2 of 77
community a great place to live. We pray that tonight you would be here, that you
would give guidance and wisdom to those who will be making decisions that will affect
all of us. We pray, Lord, that there would be a fair hearing on every issue and that,
again, wisdom and your guidance would prevail. We thank you for that. Lord, we
commit this time and all of these proceedings into your hands. We pray this through
Christ, our Lord, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate your presence.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun
Hoaglun: A couple items to note on tonight's agenda. Under eight -- Item 8, Action
Items 8-A, there is a request to -- by the applicant to withdraw that. Under Department
Reports, 9-C, just a note that this item is pending issuance of certificate of occupancy
from the Building Services Department. Under Item 10, Ordinances, 10-A, that
Ordinance No. is 11-1488. 10-B is Ordinance No. 11-1489. 10-C is Ordinance No. 11-
1490. And 10-D is Ordinance No.14-1491. Actually, I think that's a typo. It should be
11-1491. Under 10-D. So, that's 11-1491. So, with those changes, Madam Mayor, I
move adoption of the agenda as amended.
Holman: Madam Mayor, sorry to interrupt.
De Weerd: Yes. Yes, Madam Clerk.
Holman: We have an Item 8-F, it looks like a resolution number that needs to be read
into the record.
Hoaglun: 8-E -- F. 11-800. Yes. If I didn't include that, 8-F is Resolution No. 11-800.
So, with those changes, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda as amended.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as read. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Award of RFP and Agreement for "Ten Mile Interchange
Landscape Maintenance Services" to LawnCo for the Not-To-
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 3 of 77
Exceed Amount of $151,200.00 and Authorize the Mayor to
Sign the Agreement
B. Sewer and Water Main Easement for Touchmark of the
Treasure Valley, LLC
C. Development Agreement for Approval: AZ 09-001 Goff by
Garland Goff and Shannon Hamrick Located at 1725 W. Pine
Avenue: Request for Annexation and Zoning of 0.76 of an Acre
of Land with a C-N Zoning District
D. Professional Services Agreement Between Mayor's Anti-Drug
Coalition and L.E.A.D.E.R.S.H.I.P.1st, LLC for Development
and Implementation of High School Sports Teams Leadership
and Anti-Drug Program for aNot-to-Exceed Amount of
$10,500.00
De Weerd: Item No. 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: No changes to our Consent Agenda, so I move approval of the Consent
Agenda and the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion from Council, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Community ItemslPresentations
A. Continued Public Hearing From April 19, 2011: Precious Metal
Dealers Ordinance Discussion
De Weerd: Item No. 6 under community items/presentations. I will turn this over to our
chief and have him report back on the precious metals dealers ordinance and the
committee or task force and the recommendations they are bringing forth.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 4 of 77
Lavey: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council. Last month I actually presented in front of
Council the recommendations of the focus group that we put in place approximately a
month and a half ago or so, but as you recall we came in front of Council in April of
2011 with a proposal for a precious metals ordinance. During the public hearing we
took some two and a half hours of public testimony and at that time we put together a
focus group that consisted of various people in the community. We had a member from
a pawn shop. We had a member from a jewelry store. We had a member from a coin
shop. We had a couple of private citizens on there. One victim of a crime of jewelry
theft and, then, the detectives and the city attorney. I acted as the facilitator in that
discussion and last month we brought forward their recommendations. What I thought
we would do tonight is briefly give an overview of what those changes were and, then,
open it for the public testimony. Some of the major concerns that came up in the public
hearing the first time were the distinction between coins and jewelry. The holding
period for the precious metals. The distinction between hobbyists and professional
dealers. Regulation of jewelry remodelers or people that actually just remodel or
upgrade jewelry. License of the premises versus the licensing of the individuals.
Licensing the premises with existing code violations. Time to transmit record of
transaction to Meridian police. Leads Online, time needed to complete the background
checks and, then, the expiration of the 2011 licenses. Those are the main topics that
were discussed with the focus group and so, really, how we have this program outlined
today is talking about what was originally discussed and, then, what was proposed and,
then, any feedback that came out of the discussion. Coins versus jewelry. The original
proposal, there was no distinction between -- the difference between coins and jewelry.
All Items were regulated the same. Today's proposal in front of you regulates them
differently. We organized them in what we call type one and type two. Type one being
everything but coins. Type two being coins. The significance of that is as you get
through the ordinance they are regulated differently. Type two items are considered
investment vehicles. They prefer more privacy over the -- the type one transactions,
that's the people that are actually collecting coins and buying gold and silver and those
sort of things. Type two are also similar in appearance. You really can't tell the
difference between one or the next, unless they are in some sort of special case or
special presentation. Therefore, photos will be less useful in those type of items than in
a say a type one jewelry. So, as I mentioned we broke it down into type one, type two.
Type one would be jewelry, silverware, anything of the precious metals that wouldn't be
considered coins. You would take a photo of the item, record the transaction on Leads
Online, the name, contact information, signature and description of seller is recorded.
The amount the buyer pays to the seller is recorded. It's the same regulations that's
currently posed and anybody that does business with a pawn shop. And as you recall,
we originally had a proposal in there for -- for the thumb print and that's been removed.
The type two is no photo or no Leads Online entry. The records of the purchases are
kept on site for a year and, then, the Meridian PD would only be able to access that
record if there was an active investigation going on. And only the name of the seller is
recorded. The amount of the transaction is not. Holding period. The original proposal
in April was ten business days. The focus group recommendation was seven calendar
days. And, then, the feedback we received is that although there is a holding period
involved here, there is -- actually, they made this feedback before the gold prices went
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 5 of 77
as high as they did. But dealers reported the fluctuation in the market can be absorbed
as part of the business model, but ten business days was too long to do that. hobbyists.
In the original proposal hobbyists were not -- there was no distinction between the
hobbyists or a professional dealer. Through the discussion of the focus group we
decided to propose that we use the IRS definition of what a hobbyist is. Therefore, the
hobbyist would not be regulated under this ordinance. If -- going through the workbook
that IRS has, if it shows that you're actually in the business of dealing with precious
metals, then, of course, you would have to follow the ordinance. And, then, there was
discussion that was overburdensome to hobbyists to be licensed or to keep or transmit
records when they are just merely doing it for a hobby and not really trying to make any
money off of it. Jewelry remodelers. I have to admit that this was one area that was not
even considered when we originally talked about the proposal, but dealing with Todd
Thompson through Thompson jewelers and him explaining a lot of what they do,
realized that the ordinance would regulate something that we never intended to and so
someone that brings their jewelry into a jeweler to have it upgraded or remodeled or
something like that, would not be regulated under this, it would be only a person that
was actually selling the item for actual cash. And, then, through research there is low to
no existence of stolen jewelry being remodeled, so the regulation would be
unproductive. Licensing. Originally we required a license and a background check of
any individual buyer conducting a regulated transaction. We currently propose that the
owner of the establishment or operator of the premises be the one that's licensed and
that it would be upon them to actually go to them, knowing that if they have an
employee that actually violates this ordinance they could be subject to having their
license revoked. The task force believed that the owner should be held accountable for
the employees and the license fees would just be too high for having multiple
employees with possible turnovers and everything else. This actually brought up some
concern with a couple of the task force members, so we just merely removed it, but
originally the license could be denied if premises are noncompliant with Meridian City
Code or other laws, UDC, the building code, the fire code. This caused a lot of concern,
therefore, we removed it. However, there is other codes already on the books that
actually covers that. In order for you to occupy the business and have it open to the
public you need to follow those anyway, so we figured it -- it wasn't a method to withhold
their license, it was just a matter of if you got other problems you need to deal with
those as well, too. And, then, the feedback was, basically, why are we regulating code
violations when we are trying to enforce or deter theft. Transmit record. This
discussion came up. Currently under the pawn broker ordinance we have in there by
noon the next business day. We talked to Mary Ann Watson --
De Weerd: You're fading on -- if you can --
Lavey: Okay. We were talking with Mary Ann Watson with Meridian Coin and Pawn.
She gave us a lot of experience with how it's worked for them and they recommended
that we change by noon the next business day to within 24 hours of transaction.
Business owners prefer the 24 hour window to provide more time to enter and transmit
the record. Leads Online. This is currently the company that we use to forward the
information. The database. The procedure to declare an official method of transmitting
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 6 of 77
Meridian records via MPD policy and Council resolution, Leads Online is currently how
we do it with the pawn shops and upon reviewing that ordinance we don't specifically
state that it needs to be Leads Online. We went and did a separate resolution indicating
that that was the company, that Meridian doesn't have any -- any interest in actually
what vendor we use, the reason why we picked Leads Online is that's what everybody
else was using. Part of the concern was that any of your other law enforcement
agencies may troll for information about people -- well, that is -- there is a lot of things in
place that controls that one, is you actually have to have an agreement with Leads
Online to access it. You have a limited amount of people that access it. They track who
is on there. And you have to enter a case number for what case you're actually
searching for at the time. So, there is a lot of control over who has access to that
system. It says -- or part of the discussion was that MPD has -- or the Meridian police
have too much discretion over record keeping. They were implying that we could just
go in there and troll for whoever has been selling things and that there is concerns of
hacking. However, in the years that we have had Leads Online here in Meridian there
has been no instances to report of hacking. But it's a legitimate concern. Background
checks. This is one of the areas that I really had a concern over the change, but let me
explain to you why it occurred. The city has 21 days from receipt of complete
application to grant or deny a license. Dealing with the city clerk's office they requested
that be 42 days and the reason why is that's the average amount of days it's taking to
get a background check returned from the Idaho State Police and the FBI. We actually
had no control over those two agencies and we didn't want to have an ordinance in
place that actually says, well, you have 21 days to make that decision when we don't
have that information to make a factual decision. I will note to the city that if an
application can be granted sooner than that it will, but that is the reason for the
lengthening of that.
De Weerd: Chief, can you add kind of a statement, whichever is -- or whenever the
background check is completed, whichever is earlier?
Lavey: Sure. We could actually put that wording in there. I would have to review it and
see how it's currently written. It might say no longer -- no more than 42 days or
something like that, but we can actually --
De Weerd: No more than is good.
Lavey: -- make it --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If we are talking about a process that we don't control, wouldn't it make more
sense that the city -- we said something like the city has to grant or deny within ten days
of receiving the completed report from the controlling agency? However, long that
takes? Then we have ten days to get our part done?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 7 of 77
Lavey: There is -- we just want it written in a way that a citizen doesn't believe that we
are trying to hold control over a license and not grant it and there was some discussion
with the attorney as far as why that would not work, how this is the way it should read,
but I would have to defer to Bill Nary's staff and we can get you that answer.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, I think the
chief hit right on it. The perception may be that until we apply or until we submit it, then,
we have ten days until we receive it back. So, if we could hold it indefinitely to even
submit it -- or people might believe that we could hold it indefinitely. Logically, from a
business standpoint we are not going to do that, but Ithink -- I think if the 42 days or no
more than 42 days is adequate, I think that would cover us in most every circumstance.
Obviously, occasionally there may be a situation that could go longer than that, but six
weeks is a fairly lengthy period of time and so I think that's what we are finding, it's kind
of how long at the max it takes. Sometimes it's quicker. So, I think at least at the
outset, unless we have more problems, the 42 days is probably adequate.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Lavey: The other indication is that after 42 days we may need to make that decision
whether we are going to grant it or deny it and if we have no other means to deny it and
we grant it, then, they get that license. If we deny it, then, they would have the
opportunity to come in front of Council and appeal that decision and by that time we
would probably have the returns back anyways. So, I don't see significant delays, but
we are trying to get away from the perception like Attorney Nary says is that we don't
just sit and file it in the round file or in a drawer or something like that, that we actually
use the date that they actually submitted the license as to how we calculate the
deadline. The other -- the other thing is is that when we originally came in front of
Council, the precious metals dealer license and pawn broker precious metal
endorsements would be expiring on December 31st, 2011, like any other -- any other
licenses in the city. They expire on the last day of the calendar year. Because of the
extensive work that we put into this and the focus group, we have delayed enacting this
and so our --our desire is that if we go through this whole proposal and it is granted and
approved that we give a significant time for it before it takes effect, so people can
comply with it. By the time that comes around we are only dealing with a few months at
the most before the license would expire. It is not our intention to actually collect any
monies from anybody and, then, two months later make them do it all over again. So,
two things I would point out is that, first of all, the city is not enacting any -- any fees for
the licenses at this time. The only fees that would be required would be the third-party
fees for the fingerprinting. And, then, second, my proposal is is that the first license be
granted to the end of -- to December 31st, 2012. So, it may run 15 months, it may run
13 months, depending on if and when we approve this, but the people will not have to
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 8 of 77
go through that hassle of doing it twice in a three month period. And those were the
significance differences. I think what I will do is I'll stand for any questions. If there isn't,
we can open it up for public comments and, then, I will be available for any questions
after that.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for the chief at this point?
Rountree: I have none right now.
Bird: Not at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, my question is, too, is did you get a copy of the -- the
matrix?
Rountree: Yes.
Lavey: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Just to -- before I ask if there is any public testimony, I will explain
our public hearing process. This is a continued public hearing and we first have the
ordinance that is being considered in front of us presented. We, then, ask for public
testimony and that public testimony is timed to three minutes, so we ask that you be
concise and to the point. We had lengthy testimony when we first heard this ordinance.
If you can focus on the changes or what your continued concerns are, that would be
greatly appreciated, but we will respect all of your opportunity to present testimony on
this item and we would ask that each of you respect those that are testifying to not be
disruptive when they are speaking. Then the chief will wrap that up, respond to any
testimony that needs a response to, and summarize. So, that is our public process and
at this time I will start with anyone who has been signed up to provide testimony. After I
get through -- only one name -- I will open that up to anyone else who would like to
provide testimony. Signed up on the sign-up sheet is Clint Stegner. If you will, please,
come forward and state your name and address.
Stegner: I'm Clint Stegner from Star, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Stegner: Thank you. I was here at the April hearing and I'm I guess disappointed to
see that, you know, not much in the way of the feedback from people was actually
incorporated in the -- you know, the new ordinance. There was overwhelming, you
know, sort of opposition to that from, you know, people who were interested in privacy,
people who think that businesses, you know, maybe shouldn't be, you know, acting as a
-- you know, an arm of law enforcement. People that are, you know, worried about the
cost of, you know, administrating this kind of a program, you know, I am, you know, in
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 9 of 77
the bullion business, our offices are in Eagle. We have got nine people working. We do
120 transactions a day with people all over the country by telephone. So, I can tell that,
you know, administering this kind of a program would be a major imposition and that's,
you know, secondary to the concern that our customers would have when we are
collecting detailed information and, you know, forwarding that onto law enforcement.
You know, these people are extremely interested in privacy and this kind of a
requirement would be absolutely devastating to our business and their, you know,
interested in privacy is legitimate. You know, government confiscated precious metals
once before. A lot of our customers are concerned about that again and so, you know,
none of that is addressed here and I would further say that we are getting ready to
move offices, our business is growing, but we need higher speed data and, you know,
Meridian could offer that, but, you know, we absolutely would never dream of, you
know, locating this kind of a business here for the reasons I just, you know, outlined. I
regret that, you know, none of what was presented in April is -- you know, seemed to
have made a difference and, you know, I want to oppose the bill.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Is there additional public testimony? I would invite you forward at this time.
I would like to take a moment and just thank the task force. I guess in looking at the ten
different points that they really focused on in response to the testimony that was
provided in April, they vetted a number of issues and found some neutral ground and I
think that some good work was done. So, I would like to commend the task force
members in seeing this through. I know there was good healthy debate on many of
those issues that were of concern and I think there was some good dialogue and
understanding built on both sides of the concerns from law enforcement and from those
of our citizens. 80, our heart felt thanks for your work in that. Council, seeing that there
is no public testimony to take on this, would you like to -- do you have any questions for
the chief? Would you -- is there additional information that you would like to see on this
item?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I just had one question for the chief and it's an item that I
might have missed that -- on that and I think that was -- there is no thumb print required
anymore? I think that was initially considered and that is no longer part of the ordinance
as part of the privacy stuff that you guys worked on.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Mr. Hoaglun, that is correct, there is no thumb print required.
And if you look at the matrix it will explain to you what's required and what's not required
compared to these other agencies.
Hoaglun: Appreciate you working on that and changing the type one to type two,
recognizing the difference in the coins, to give people more privacy, those changes
were made after -- after the input from the task force as you outlined and appreciate
their work. Mary Ann and the others that were involved in that, appreciate it, that was
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 10 of 77
very very helpful and the way we can make these things work and move forward, so
appreciate it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have no other questions, but, again, from my point of view I
do very much appreciate all the time that the task force put in on this. I would walk by
them on Tuesday evenings and they were diligent and huddled up and going through
this and there was much debate and I think ultimate reasonable compromise. I believe
with some minor tweaking that we have heard tonight, possibly with respect to times
and days, we could see this ordinance move forward in terms of a reading of an
ordinance in the next few weeks. So, again, thank you all that participated. Really and
truly appreciate your time. I wish we had some gold coins for you, but we don't.
De Weerd: It's too expensive. Anything further from Council? Chief?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I guess I would only close with as you look at the matrix
you can actually compare the current proposal for Meridian and compare it to the Ada
County ordinance where Star is a part of and I believe the Ada County ordinance is
more restrictive in what they require in most cases and everything else is similar right
down the road. So, if that concerns you at all based on the testimony you just heard,
you can compare what Ada County requires versus what Meridian would require. And
with that I have nothing further.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, chief brings up an interesting point. There currently are
ordinances in the city of Boise, the city of Nampa, Ada County, Chubbuck, which is not
in our area, and also Garden City. So, this is not an unusual situation. This is
something that -- that's come about because of the issues we are facing in law
enforcement with people's desire to steal from other folks.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Rountree. Mr. Zaremba
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I just wanted to clarify and maybe I didn't hear it correctly, but
I believe Councilman Rountree said we would be considering this for maybe a few
weeks and it would come back as an ordinance. It is actually Item 10-A on tonight's --
Rountree: For the first reading.
Bird: Yeah. First reading.
Zaremba: -- agenda for the first reading. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is nothing further --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 11 of 77
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move we close the public hearing.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 6-A. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Council, do I have a motion on direction on this? Well, since it's later in our
agenda I won't ask that right now.
Rountree: We have a first reading.
De Weerd: For the first reading. Okay. So, if anyone was interested on next steps in
this, it is allowed three readings and the first reading is tonight and so either the Council
at that time can choose to waive additional readings or it will be on the next several
agendas for readings and, then, acted on upon that third reading. So, those are the
next steps.
Item 7: Items Moved From Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Action Items
A. Continued Public Hearing from August 17, 2010: VAR OS-008
Meridian and Amity by Hawkins Companies Located at the
Northwest Corner of W. Amity Road and S. Meridian Road,
South of Harris Street: Request for Variance to UDC 11-3H-4
Which Prohibits New Approaches From Directly Accessing a
State Highway to Allow 2 Right-In /Right-Out Access Points
(Approximately 660 Feet From the North and South
Intersections) and 1 Right-In /Right-Out, Left-In Access Point
at the 1/4 Mile to State Highway 69 /Meridian Road
De Weerd: So, I will move to item -- Action Items under eight. The first Item 8-A has --
the applicant has requested to withdraw this application. Council, I would need a
motion to accept that.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 12 of 77
Rountree: Move that we withdraw Item 8-A from the agenda.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to withdraw Item A-8. Is that a roll call, Mr.
Nary?
Nary: Voice vote is fine.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Hearing: MDA 11-005 Walmart-Overland/Stoddard by
Walmart Real Estate Business Trust Located Southeast Corner
of W. Overland Road and S. Stoddard Road Request:
Modification to the Existing Development Agreement to
Amend the Conceptual Development Plan and Certain
Sections of the Text of the Agreement in Accord with the
Proposed Changes to the Development Plan
De Weerd: Okay. Our next public hearing is Item 8-B on MDA 11-005. I will open this
public hearing with staff comments.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. In response to a
number of the comments that we received I just want to preface the staff presentation to
briefly address the project background. The review process is currently before the city
and clarify the zoning status of the property. After that Ms. Watters will address the
specific application, the staff report, and the recommendations. So, as the Mayor
indicated tonight's hearing is on a modification to an existing development agreement.
There was also an application for a Conditional Use Permit before the city to allow for
the construction of a drive-thru pharmacy at this future retail store that's been proposed
on the subject site. The action before Council tonight is merely on the development
agreement modification, the actual Conditional Use Permit just on the drive-thru will be
held by the Planning and Zoning Commission.
De Weerd: Can you make sure you get that closer to you, Pete. You're fading out.
Friedman: Okay. Again tonight Council is considering the modifications to the
development agreement. The actual hearing on the drive-thru pharmacy will be before
the Planning and Zoning Commission on September 1st in this room. So, tonight we
are going to review the proposal by the applicant as it relates to the existing
development agreement. By way of background, the property was annexed to the city
in 2007. The zoning that accompanied the annexation was C-G, General Retail and
Services, and that was consistent with the Comprehensive Plan designation in place on
the property. The C-G zone allows for commercial on a large scale. It can include a
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 13 of 77
broader mix of retail, office, or service businesses. It identifies the permitted uses that
would be allowed on the site and the standards for future development, but it does not
call out individual users by name or by corporation. We really just look at the underlying
uses, whether it's restaurant, or something like that. When the project was first
proposed there was -- going back through the hearing records it appeared that there
was quite a bit of opposition. It's our understanding that the original developer worked
with the neighborhood and the results of some of that dialogue were incorporated into in
the development agreement itself. The highlights of those were that Alaska Street not
be extended, that it be dead end there, except for emergency access and pedestrian
access. That certain uses along the southern boundary where the interface between
the commercial property and the residential properties occurs. There would be no fuel
sales. There would be no garden or building supply sales. No vehicle washing
facilities. In addition, there was a requirement fora 60 foot separation between the
buildings, with 25 feet of landscaped area from the southern property line into the
commercial site. Many of those conditions are in the original development agreement
and they remain in place today and they will remain in place after the modification, if the
Council approves the modification. The modification, which Sonya will address, are
primarily to the site plan and a couple of other points. They are not really addressing
any uses per se. Really one of the things that we have been struggling with and trying
to communicate to some of the people that we have had an opportunity to speak with is
that the zoning approvals are already in place for a large retail center there. If this
particular applicant had chosen to avail themselves of the current site plan as approved,
there would be no public process, there would be no public hearing, they would submit
for a certificate of zoning compliance, design review, and their building permits. But
because they have chosen to take and modify the site plan that was approved, because
the original developer did not know who the end user was going to be, that necessitates
us revisiting the development agreement to get a new concept plan -- or, actually, not a
concept plan, but a specific plan approved by Council. So, that is kind of how we got to
where we are tonight and I will now turn it over to Sonya to really address the specific
modifications In the request. And then, at the end of her presentation either one of us
would be available for Council questions or we would be happy to wait until after the
applicant and the public have -- have made their comments.
De Weerd: Thank you, Pete. And just to go over the public process, some of you might
be new to this process. Staff gives their report first. The applicant will be invited
forward and they have ten minutes to present their application. Public testimony will be
invited and, then, the applicant will have five minutes to conclude and to address some
of the testimony if they would like to respond to that. So, then, there will be dialogue
from the City Council. I just wanted you to know what the public process is for those
that are new to our proceedings. So, I will turn this back over to the staff.
Watters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'd just like to start just to
show the background on the development plans that were approved for this property.
The site plan that you see here is the original concept plan that was approved with the
annexation in 2007. This is the revised concept plan that was approved in 2009. As
you can see here the traffic calming measures, the little bump out, the tree, stop signs
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 14 of 77
were removed on this plan and the building square footages for the pads are shown
here. The revisions in 2009 were primarily to address the pad at the northeast corner of
the site where the Icon Credit Union property was proposed to be constructed. This is a
proposed site plan -- concept plan with this application. The applicant's proposed
modifications to the development agreement are a revised orientation of the largest
building pad on which Walmart is proposed from facing north towards Overland to
facing east towards Lowe's. The rear of the building is now proposed to face Stoddard,
instead of Bear Creek Subdivision, with parking on the interior of the development. The
removal of the requirement for a landscape buffer to be provided along the rear of the
building, along the south boundary. The 25 foot wide buffer required by the UDC
adjacent to residential uses will remain a requirement. And the change to the text that
would require the developer to provide an eight foot tall white vinyl fence, instead of
replace the existing vinyl fence, with an eight foot tall vinyl fence, with the property
owner's consent along the south boundary of the site, in addition to providing dense
landscaping within the buffer. Staff comments on that request -- if the existing fence
remains and a new eight foot tall fence is constructed on the property, it would create a
double fence with space in between which could result in maintenance problems, as
well as not be visually pleasing to the residents. In order for the existing fence to be
replaced with an eight foot tall fence consent would be required from all of the property
owners. Staff is of the opinion neither option is feasible for the reasons stated.
Therefore, staff recommends that that fencing requirement be eliminated and trees be
provided within the buffer that are a minimum of eight feet in height when planted and
consisting of a mix of evergreen and deciduous trees and shrubs that will result in a
barrier that allows trees to touch at the time of maturity. In addition to the applicant's
proposed changes to the agreement, staff is recommending the following: Removal of
several provisions that have already been satisfied with the development of the Icon
property as they are no longer applicable. Inclusion of a requirement for compliance
with all current design standards listed in the UDC, along with the guidelines listed in the
Meridian design manual. Inclusion of a requirement for street lighting to be installed
along the project's frontage on Overland and Stoddard Roads in accord with the city's
improvement standards prior to occupancy of the first building on the site. Inclusion of a
requirement for an easement granting cross-access to the Icon property at the northeast
corner of the site to be submitted with the first certificate of zoning compliance
application. Inclusion of a provision prohibiting overnight recreational vehicle parking
and camping on the site. And, finally, inclusion of a requirement for an eight foot wide
multi-use pathway to be provided along the east boundary of the site from where Alaska
Street stubs at the south boundary, north to the Icon property at the northeast corner of
the site. And also a pathway is required along the west boundary adjacent to Stoddard
from the south boundary to the Overland-Stoddard intersection. We have received 15
letters or comments from 15 different folks I should say. Frank Balkovetz. Dan Albert.
Adam and Ashley Clark. Jim and Sarah Schmidt. Shannah Sylvestry. Ryan Heyborne.
Lori McBride. Shaly and Terry Honeycutt. George and Lora Webb. Patrick Morandy.
And Kevin Denton. All written testimony on this application. Outstanding issues for
Council is the fencing previously discussed along the southern boundary of the site
adjacent to Bear Creek Subdivision. Council should consider public testimony on this
issue in determining if staffs recommendation is appropriate. Staff is recommending
Meridian City Council
Augusf 23, 2011
Page 15 of 77
approval of the requested modification to the development agreement per the provisions
in Exhibit A-4 of the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions that Council may
have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this time?
Bird: Not at this time, Mayor.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you for the report. Is there any provision in it for the appearance of
what is now the back of the building that will be facing Stoddard?
Wafters? Excuse me. Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, Councilmen. They do
have to comply with the current design standards in the Unified Development Code and
the guidelines in the design manual. So, there are provisions within that for the
elevation.
Zaremba: For a surface facing a major street.
Wafters: Yes.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you
De Weerd: Sonya, can you also say since the building has been reoriented is there
going to be some lighting issues and how those concerns might be mitigated?
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, with the certificate of zoning compliance the
applicant will be required to submit a photometric report that shows the boundaries of
the light, where they fall on the site. No light trespass will be allowed beyond the
property boundaries on the residential properties. So, that will be verified at that time.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, if there is nothing further, I will invite the
applicant forward at this time.
Butler: Good evening
De Weerd: Good Evening.
Butler: Joann Butler, 251 East Front Street in Boise. And this is the same site plan that
is up -- it just shows a little bit more of the landscaping and would you like it oriented --
can we orient it -- maybe we can orient it -- we are going to cut off somebody.
De Weerd: You can cut off those guy over there.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 16 of 77
Butler: Okay.
De Weerd: They are the ones with the badges and the guns and all of that.
Butler: Okay. Sorry, guys. Thank you. Again, Joann Butler representing the applicant
for the project. The applicant is the contract purchaser of this property, which is now
owned by Idaho Banking Company. As Mr. Friedman said, this is an application to
modify the development agreement and the main purpose is because of the
reorientation of the store, the major store on the site and to modify the conditions of
approval appropriately. We think we are providing a better site plan and I think the
consensus is an appreciation for the reorientation. Nick Taylor from Pacland Civil
Engineers is here with me tonight and he will be coming up in just a minute to explain
the site plan in a little bit more detail. As staff said, this is not a conditional use, we will
be before the Planning and Zoning Commission in connection with adrive-thru
pharmacy in just about -- about a week's time -- a little bit more than that. In addition,
we will be applying for the certificate of zoning compliance and design review. A great
accomplishment, in my opinion, for the city in the last several years since this site plan
and this development agreement was first approved is the fact that you have adopted
design guidelines, some pretty thorough design guidelines, and that's -- it's been pretty
impressive. We have had several meetings with staff, with the architects for the site,
and -- to make sure that they understood and staff was able to convey to the architects
what the design guidelines require, especially on street frontages and whatnot and the
staff has added in a few extra things in terms of conditions of approval if they thought
the design guidelines hadn't gone far enough and I think, you know, it's been -- they
have been great meetings in terms of being able to convey to us what the city is looking
for for a good addition to the city and also as a good addition to that neighborhood,
because that's what we are trying to provide. We have had two meetings with the
neighbors, two different neighborhood meetings. We have had several phone calls,
some letters and some a-mail correspondence. No doubt about it, when we first met
with the neighbors at the first meeting some of the neighbors were very vocal about why
was this use approved for this site? Why wasn't it further away from the residential
area. Somewhere like Ten Mile or something and they were very -- they were
concerned about it and this project was probably approved before many people moved
into this area and we did explain the original zoning approval. We also took the time to
explain a little bit about your planning process and your comprehensive planning
process and the fact that the city today, unlike we planned several decades ago, we do
today try to plan so that we all can live, work, play and shop in a little closer proximity,
so that it's not -- we are looking for sustainability. It's -- I guess that's the buzz word for
this decade and that's -- it's a good thing and I think it shows in your comprehensive
planning. I believe that many of our neighbors, upon considering that appreciated that
planning concept and felt good about what was -- what was being proposed. We did
appreciate the meeting with the neighbors and they had a lot of good suggestions and
we have been able to meet many of our neighbors' objectives. Not completely. Traffic,
of course, is a concern for our neighbors and we are working with ACHD. Our traffic
engineers are working closely with ACHD and there will be a public hearing even before
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 17 of 77
the Ada County Highway District commissioners. The view along Stoddard has been on
the minds of some of our neighbors and we appreciate that and they even sent letters to
you to say they appreciate it and gave us high marks for how the other store in Meridian
on Fairview is kept and it's neat and it's tidy and so on. Still they were asking could you
put an eight foot linear fence all along Stoddard. Mr. Taylor will go over our solution for
the Stoddard view along there. We think that with staff having us put in a multi-use
pathway with the berming, with the landscaping and with the varied hardscape out there
that we have created a good, varied, esthetically pleasing length along that -- along
Stoddard without putting in an eight foot linear fence and we hope that the Council
agrees. Again, because the originally approved site plan had the rear of the store
facing Bear Creek Subdivision with truck docks back there as well, there was this call
for an eight foot fence -- eight foot vinyl fence with the neighbors' permission. At our
various meetings we haven't had consensus. Some people didn't want a fence at all,
some people wanted an eight foot fence, some people wanted a block wall, some
people wanted a lot of landscaping. We think the staff has come up with the esthetically
pleasing solution with very dense landscaping, enhanced landscaping for the area. We
are not clear that we can get permission from all of our neighbors to replace the fence
and I don't want to see a jagged tooth long in the back at the -- at that side of the
property boundary, but we think that the buffering on our property and as staff has put in
the conditions of approval is appropriate. I think that's all. Those are the only two real
conditions that I wanted to address up front. We know that we don't quite agree with all
of our neighbors on those two conditions and I will let Nick talk to you a little bit more
about that and stand for questions either now or later.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions right now?
Bird: I have none.
Taylor: Madam Mayor, Council, thank you for the opportunity to present the site plan.
Is it all right if I go over here without the microphone?
De Weerd: No. First I need your name and address.
Taylor: I'm Nick Taylor with Pacland Civil Engineer on the project.
De Weerd: Okay. And, no, we need you on the public record. Oh. The city clerk has
found a microphone for you. See, ask and you shall receive.
Taylor: All right. I'll just make this brief and run through a couple of main site features.
As you can see, the proposed 157,000 square foot building is proposed to face east
with its back against Stoddard.
De Weerd: You may want to stand on this side.
Taylor: Good idea. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Proposed site access along Stoddard
is at the southwest and northwest corners of the site, along with an additional proposed
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 18 of 77
access along Overland Road and, then, a shared access with the Lowe's site next to the
proposed credit union that is under construction right now. Those are the main
vehicular accesses. The proposed truck route will be from the south Stoddard entrance.
The trucks will circulate in, they will make a left turn from Stoddard, they will circulate up
along the western boundary, they will back into the truck dock, the screened truck dock
and, then, when they are finished unloading they will travel back out the -- the northwest
site access. The intent here is to -- the prototypical Walmart actually has truck docks
facing the south and the intent here was to modify the prototypical site to keep those
truck docks facing away from the residents and also to include a ten foot screen wall to
-- to buffer from South Stoddard Road any -- any truck traffic through there. So, in
addition to the vehicular accesses as previously mentioned with the development
agreement requirement, there is an emergency vehicle access and we have proposed
to maintain that as an emergency vehicle access only. That will also provide pedestrian
access along the eastern boundary of the site next to Lowe's. In addition to the eastern
pedestrian access as proposed, there is a western pedestrian access proposed along
the South Stoddard Road buffer. I believe it's a 20 to 25 foot landscaped buffer that's
required on this side of the building. Inside that landscaped buffer that will be
landscaped per UDC and per zoning code with berms and significant landscaping
features, there is also ten foot screen walls for bail and pallet storage areas, ten foot
screen wall for organic storage area, ten foot screen wall for the truck dock area and ten
foot screen wall for the compactor pad area. So, most functions that will be behind the
store will be screered from view and from noise as well onto South Stoddard Road. As
you can see on the west side the proposed landscaping is significant, along with the
southern boundary as well. In addition to the existing six foot fence and as a condition
of approval we understand that this area will be significantly landscaped and above and
beyond the UDC and zoning code in order to provide an additional level of screening
with deciduous plants and shrubs as requested. In addition, there is a significant
amount of landscaping per UDC in the parking field and that will go well with the
proposed -- the proposed GE lighting system. We have a proposed LED low energy
lighting system that has low scatter and low light shed. Obviously, we will be meeting
the zero percent overFall requirement for lighting into the neighborhood next door. So,
that's a little bit about the site. If there are any questions I can answer those now.
De Weerd: Council, questions? Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor. Curiosity piques my question. In a store that operates 24
hours a day is the loading dock open 24 hours a day or are you likely to be receiving
deliveries with trucks backing in at 2:00 o'clock in the morning?
Taylor: Council Member Zaremba, no, sir. The plan is to have -- typically there is four
or five truck deliveries per evening and they are usually done in the evening. They are
big trucks, they enter, they usually do not idle, the policy is for them not to idle outside of
the truck docks. They make their way into the truck docks and they stop. They do their
off loading and, then, they leave. Typically it occurs at night and it typically occurs fairly
rapidly. They don't like to have trucks sitting in there for a long period of time. So, that's
the standard. Now, there will be times when you will exceed those typical amounts and
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 19 of 77
there will be times when there will be less than those typical amounts, depending on the
delivery schedule, but typically they are done at night and they vary.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Other questions from Council?
Rountree: None at this time.
Bird: I have none at this time.
De Weerd: Okay. Do you have elevations?
Taylor: I do not have elevations, Madam Mayor
De Weerd: Okay.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as Sonya had indicated, the next
step in the development process, if the modifications are approved or even if they
weren't, would be to go through design review and certificate of zoning compliance and I
just wanted to say that right now those elevations are a works in progress. We kind of
took the base store that they had brought forward and, then, had a very good dialogue
about how we think they needed to adjust to comply with our design guidelines, as well
as provide some more interest in detail and so forth to address, for example, the views
from the neighborhood, the views from the street. So, it was pretty much at our
direction that -- not to bring them tonight, because they really aren't ready for
consumption at this point, they are a works in progress.
De Weerd: Well, I will try not to comment then. Anything further from Council at this
point? Okay. Thank you.
Taylor: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. I do have asign-up sheet from interested parties to this application.
When I call your name if you would like to provide testimony at that time I would invite
you forward. If you don't want to that's fine, you can just shake or nod your head. So,
Leif and Tonya Edmonson signed up in favor. Okay. Garrett Bishop. Oh. Okay.
Please come forward. I will ask if you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Edmonson: My name is Leif Edmonson and I live at -- in the Bear Creek Subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Edmonson: I wanted to commend the developers for changing the plan. Based on the
changes I have seen tonight I'm pretty pleased with it. I was not real excited to hear
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 20 of 77
that there was a Walmart coming to my neighborhood, but it was coming whether -- you
know, the decision to let them come or not was made a long time ago with -- my
consent was never asked. It doesn't matter. But I am glad that they are working with
the community to change the designs to meet some our needs. As an amateur
astronomer I'm really concerned about light pollution and they are going to do -- do
some good things for that and I'm glad to hear that, so -- big buildings generate lots of
light and there is not much you can really do about it no matter what, except turn the
lights off and that's not going to happen, so I'm glad they are doing what they can,
where they can. And from my fellow citizens of Bear Creek there was a letter sent out
to the group that was rather argumentative against -- come here and say no -- vote no
and I don't think there is much we can do about that. I think we need to continue to
work with Walmart, the developers, and seek changes to their plan. I was really in my
response to that letter to our community I -- I said I think we need to -- if they cannot
have the pharmacy and -- entering onto Stoddard Road and it looks like that's going to
be the case here already. So, I'm really glad to see the changes that they are
proposing. It looks pretty good from my perspective.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for your testimony. Garrett Bishop signed up against.
Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Bishop: Garrett Bishop. I live in Bear Creek also. Most of my concerns is I think not
applicable to the agenda. I was concerned more about the 24 hour operation, the
lighting and the late hours and just the overall effects on the neighborhood with the 24
hour operation. So, that was my biggest concern and I realize that's -- now that I'm here
I realize that's not really up for discussion tonight, so I guess that's all I have. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Brandon Grant signed up against. Okay. Ryan Heyborn
signed up against. Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Heyborn: My name is Ryan Heyborn. I live in the Bear Creek Subdivision as well. How
are you?
De Weerd: Very good. Thank you.
Heyborn: Well, I also had some preconceptions about what we might be able to discuss
and what we might -- might not be able to and those are -- are not what's being
discussed tonight. I do -- you know, I don't have any animosity towards Walmart or
towards you folks. I know you guys are doing a job and I'm sure you're good at it. We
are not, however, neighbors and that's a fact of the proximity of where you live and
where I live and I happen to live near an area that's about to get a Walmart right next to
it, which I didn't know about, didn't expect. What I really wanted to talk about tonight as
well was the 24 hour nature of this business. Now, I want to ask if that's not open for
discussion tonight, as we go forward will there ever be any chance that anything I or
anyone else says could make it so that Walmart cannot be open 24 hours a day or is
that absolutely a done deal?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 21 of 77
De Weerd: There is a separate -- a separate application that would address that.
Under the development agreement -- Mr. Attorney -- Mr. Nary, would you like to answer
that?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe in that zone 24 hour operation
is allowed.
Friedman: That is correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Heyborn: So, there is nothing I could do, nothing I could say or anyone else that would
change that.
De Weerd: Not under the development agreement discussion and certainly it's -- it's
going to be more applicable to the CUP discussion.
Heyborn: And is that open for public discussion or --
De Weerd: Oh, yeah, that is a public hearing.
Heyborn: All right. I work at night and so a lot of nights I'm not available to come to the
meeting, but I would just make a quick comment, because I plan on living in my house
for another 30 years and having Walmart next to me for another 30 years. Beings I'm
an emergency doctor, I work in the ERs at night and I'm exposed to the group of people
who are out during the night and a lot of them are an unsavory crowd and not a crowd I
would like having just a parking lot away from my family at 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 a.m. And
so, hopefully, there is a chance or an opportunity to voice that more and amend the
agreement, but if not --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the -- the CUP application is only in
regards to the drive-thru operation. The zone allows fora 24 hour operation. That's
already an entitlement that this property has. Even if the City Council were to change
the requirements of the zone that this is in, this property at this particular point would be
grandfathered in under the existing code that allows 24 hours. So, that is not a
discussion point even at the CUP. The CUP is only as to whether or not adrive-thru
operation can operate at this location, not the hours of operation.
Heyborn: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 22 of 77
De Weerd: Sir -- and I would also invite you, if you can't make the public hearing for
that item, you can submit a letter in writing --
Heyborn: Oh, thank you.
De Weerd: And those are read and also part of the decision-making. process.
Heyborn: Thank you very much.
De Weerd : Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd : Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This may be a related question for our attorney or perhaps our director of
planning and zoning. Even with a 24 hour operation that does not give any business or
property the right to violate our other nuisance ordinances about noise between 11:00
p.m. and I think it's 7:00 a.m. So, if -- even if they are open 24 hours a day they can't
become a nuisance in the middle of the night and I believe we have separate
ordinances that cover that.
Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as long as their
operations are within what's allowed, then, that is not included in the ordinance. If it's
beyond what's allowed -- so, for example, right now they have -- they have certain hours
of operation, certain hours of delivery, so if it was beyond that or outside of the area of
that, then, that would violate our ordinance. So, yes, the ordinance would apply to other
uses. So, I think the issue that most of the comments have been related not to the
delivery service, but as much as the parking lot. So, the parking lot requirements are
subject to all of our ordinance requirements in regards to noise and nuisance and those
type of things. I think most of the deliveries, as long as it's within that very defined
window of what the store operation is probably not going to violate the ordinance, but
the parking lot certainly would and that's where I think most of the comments have been
concerned about, so --
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Heidi Fordick. Or Forney. I'm sorry. Okay. Signed up against.
Thank you for being here. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Forney: My name is Heidi Forney and I live in the Bear Creek Subdivision as well.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Forney: As the parent of two children, one of whom is a special needs child, I'm very
concerned about the traffic in the area and about what this will mean to my children and
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 23 of 77
to my family. We have lived in the Bear Creek Subdivision since -- almost since it
opened. We have lived there for a good seven years now and I'm concerned -- looking
at this development I see very little access as far as the driveway. You have got the
driveways in the back on Stoddard where the trucks are going to be coming in and
coming out and you have got the one driveway here where you have the traffic and,
then, from Lowe's they are coming in as well. How do we know that eventually they are
going to, well, you know, there is really not enough access for people to be coming in
and out, maybe we should open up this street to go into the subdivision so people can
come in. Yeah, it's an emergency access, but, you know, I think we can let other people
come in, too. That's going to open up our subdivision to all kinds of traffic. It's already
open 24 hours a day. I'm sorry. If you have more traffic coming in and cars coming in,
that's opening up our children who walk around in areas -- you know, they are already
free to ride their bikes in the neighborhood, they are safe in our neighborhood, but, then,
when you have all of these other cars and, you know, people coming in and coming to
Walmart, you know, they are going to be in danger from being able to safely play in our
neighborhood and I'm very concerned about that.
De Weerd: Well --
Forney: What's to prevent them from asking -- coming back a few years from now and
saying, gee, you know, we need another driveway, we need another access, can we
open this up.
De Weerd: I will ask Pete to respond to that.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Yes, just in response
to that concern, it has been a concern since the original development was proposed.
Certainly from our perspective that remains a concern. As you indicated right now the
requirement of the development agreement is that that remain closed to vehicle access
except for emergencies. And that's not proposed to change. If some point down the
future there was a determination made by the property owner that the two accesses on
Stoddard, the one on Overland -- actually, there is a couple more as you go farther east
on Overland, because they have joint access between the new bank and Lowe's, there
is another access in from that side, but, nonetheless, if someone who controls this
property said we would like more access, they would have to come back and modify --
request the development agreement modification and that again, would have to be
reviewed and acted on in the public session by the City Council and you and the other
concerned neighbors would have, again, an opportunity to come in and restate your
concerns.
Forney: Will we, as homeowners, be notified of that? Will they be putting up signs the
way that they did this time? We weren't notified about the Walmart hearing originally, at
least I wasn't as a family. We didn't -- you know --
De Weerd: And do you back up to the property?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 24 of 77
Forney: We don't back up specifically. We are over by the park
De Weerd: Okay.
Forney: But my -- you know, my family does walk around -- we run around. My son has
a -- my son is special needs. He has a service dog and he's learning how to use that
service dog and I want him to be safe in his neighborhood.
De Weerd: I certainly understand that. There -- there is the neighborhood -- there is a
-- there are requirements and we would hope that one of the reasons you found it is
because some of those requirements that the city asks for, any kind of changes to that,
certainly that would be our concern and I guess, Pete, do you -- I believe that that
access was closed, because it wasn't going to serve any need. Is there any reason to
continue to show that as a possibility?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, I would want to consult with
our emergency service providers. We do designate it as emergency access only and,
you know, we could have a sign up that, you know, this is not a street that will be
extended or something like that. You know, Iwould -- I would want to defer to either the
fire chief and the police chief or the two gentlemen that are here tonight.
De Weerd: The guy that we blocked off from seeing the plat?
Friedman: Yeah.
De St. Germain: It's hard to see from here.
De Weerd: Perry, would you have any comment at this -- at this point?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I would not be opposed to looking at
that as being something that we could not require. There appears to be adequate
access completely around the facility as it stands right now. The issue would probably
come in to any future developments that may occur in the lower right-hand corner in the
future.
De Weerd: Yes. And, I don't know, it looks like a corner that a fire engine wouldn't
even be able to make, so it does look like it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Palmer: It's not the most practical use for us given the other options.
De Weerd: Okay. So, at this point there I think needs to be some staff comments and
certainly a response by the applicant, but it is not contemplated at all in this DA request,
so certainly that's not in front of us today, but there might be some work that staff can do
to -- to see that the possibility is eliminated.
Forney: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 25 of 77
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Matt Nelingsfer. Okay. Thank you. Signed up in favor.
Mandy Clark signed up against. Okay. Thank you. Adam Clark signed up against.
Good evening.
Clark: Good evening.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Clark: My name is Adam Clark from the Bear Creek Subdivision. I had a couple
questions, Madam Mayor, Members of the Board, just points of clarification. If this is
not approved tonight does Walmart have a development plan that currently is approved
that they could start building on?
De Weerd: I would -- yes.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the revised concept plan that you
have before you is, in effect, the current approved plan for the property, so if they chose
to develop this site in this configuration, then, they can proceed with just the --
essentiallythe zoning certificate from the building permit.
Clark: Okay. So, any objections that we have today, they wouldn't have to necessarily
take into effect, they could just throw away this previous zoning plan and start building
on this?
Friedman: That's correct.
Clark: Okay. My concern is that the drive-thru pharmacy included in this zoning plan
are just development plans, but the zoning hasn't been approved yet; is that correct?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Clark, on this plan they really
didn't get down to identifying the specific users and so forth, so if somebody were to
come in with this plan and they wanted to put adrive-thru pharmacy in, or a drive-thru
bank or something, then, they would most likely have to apply for a Conditional Use
Permit, which would just be for that drive-thru facility.
Clark: And if they applied for the Conditional Use Permit and it was denied, would they
have to have another development plan approved by the City Council?
Friedman: Again, no, they -- if they applied for adrive-thru facility and that was denied,
then, they would have to make a decision on whether -- how important that drive-thru
facility was to them.
Clark: Okay. So, there doesn't have to be a revision to the plan to remove the drive-
thru?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 26 of 77
Friedman: Right -- yeah. Right now the drive-thru that is proposed for the Walmart is
going to be the subject of its own separate hearing. If for some reason the concept plan
that they have proposed is not approved and it goes back to the current approved plan,
then, we would be processing a Conditional Use Permit for adrive-thru somewhere on
there.
Clark: My biggest concern is the fact that as -- as was originally mentioned, trying to
make it easier to get the goods and the food and the things that we need is much
appreciated, but to limit the impact on the community as much as possible and though
this is not the forum for that discussion, that forum is on September 1st?
De Weerd: That is the date of the public hearing.
Clark: I would like to ask the Members of the Council and Madam Mayor to keep in
mind -- to try to reduce the impact that is going to be had in the community and its -- the
only impact that can be reduced is a drive-thru pharmacy, then, I appreciate that
reduction.
De Weerd: And that -- that decision will be made by a separate body. So, I appreciate
your comments and procedurally after tonight if you still have further questions I would
invite you to call our planning staff and they can help address those up to the public
hearing at the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Clark: As the plan so far -- or the development plan so far as stated, I like it a lot better
than the last one -- than the one that was previously provided.
De Weerd: Okay.
Clark: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Ashley Clark signed up against. Okay. Frank Balkovetz or --
thank you. And I apologize if I mess up any of your names. With a last name like de
Weerd I have had it happen to mine, too. Not an excuse, but -- so, if you will, please,
state your name and address.
Balkovetz: My name is Frank Balkovetz. I reside at 560 West Davenport Street.
Madam Mayor, Council Members, thank you for hearing my concerns.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Balkovetz: I'll get back to my address here, because my house --
Nary: We need you on the microphone, sir.
De Weerd: Yes. If you want to just point out --just don't talk.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 27 of 77
Balkovetz: It is the southeast property right there. Currently there is a four foot vinyl
fence. I think there is some confusion on whether it's a six foot or a four foot fence. It is
-- it's actually 56 inches, which is about four and a half feet. Four and a half feet, what
is that, about right there? Four and a half feet -- sir, could you come up here for a
minute. Can you stand right here for everybody? Over there. Right here for me.
That's four feet. Okay.
Nary: You still have to be on the microphone.
Zaremba: On the microphone, please.
Balkovetz: I'm my four year old son right here and this is -- this is a man standing
across from a four foot fence. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
De Weerd: That was very accommodating.
Hoaglun: He makes a good visual aid.
Balkovetz: I just wanted to demonstrate to everybody here what a four foot fence looks
like from somebody standing on it. Staff has recommended that we just put a -- I
believe it's just landscaping back there. Originally back in 2007 there was a lot of
concern about the fence back there. We originally came in here, gave a big
presentation, asked that we put a six foot block fence for a barrier there for safety
reasons, which I'm not sure why we have regressed, now we are back to a six foot
fence and now we are no fence at all. But I would just like Council, Madam Mayor, to --
to consider what I just showed you right there with a man standing across from a four
and a half foot fence and your son or daughter is on the other side. I'm not opposed to
Walmart. You know, I shop at Walmart. I'm sure we all shop at Walmart. However,
has anybody ever been in a Walmart at 9:00 o'clock at night? It's chaos. It's crazy.
The place is crazy. You know what, I wish I was Sam Walton. I wish I would have
came up with his business plan, but I didn't. I own the house sitting across from
Walmart that has a four and a half foot fence. And that's all I really have to say. The
other thing, too, is I also sit on the board of Bear Creek. I haven't done all my research
on this, so I don't want to speak out of place here, but it's my understanding that the
fence back there, that is actually -- the ownership lies with the Bear Creek association,
not with the individual homeowners. It's a boundary fence. Anyway, I think we can -- I
think we can work with Walmart and get something figured out there.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I'm glad to ask you a few questions if you don't mind, because you are
an owner backed up against that and on the board, because in going through the e-
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 26 of 77
mails they talked about not all the homeowners are on board with the type of fencing or
how tall of fencing, but I want to be certain I read it correctly. As an association, though,
you are looking at going with an eight -- was it an eight foot cinder block style type
fence, colored block fence?
Balkovetz: Ultimately that's what we would like, but, you know, I'm not one to force all
the expense on Walmart, either. I realize that's ahuge -- a huge expense that they
would have to incur. I would love that. That would be great. A six foot fence, I think
that's doable with some landscaping. You know, the vinyl fence -- I'm not a big fan of
the vinyl fence that's just because it's just -- it's not areal -- it's not a real good barrier.
You know, it just -- it doesn't provide a lot of noise break and, you know, it's a safety
issue, so --
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Frank, has there been discussion between the homeowners
association and Walmart about the fence that -- as much as you know?
Balkovetz: Yeah. And that's -- and that's why I'm kind of confused, because, you
know, I read this and Council -- or -- and staff was recommending something, but
Walmart's wanting to -- you know, what do you want, what do you guys want? I mean I
know they want to be a good neighbor, I know they do. They really do. And I know
these people want to provide the best thing that they can to get this thing done, but I
think there is -- there is a lot of confusion. I mean I think some of the facts are skewed
on exactly -- you know, why is it a six foot fence. Did anybody ever go out and measure
the fence? Has anybody ever looked at it? You know, have you looked at the fence
there, sir?
De Weerd: I'm sorry, you need to address --
Balkovetz: I apologize.
De Weerd: -- your questions to me.
Balkovetz: I apologize.
De Weerd: I know he was your prop earlier, but he will answer questions when he has
an opportunity at the end of testimony.
Balkovetz: Okay. Okay.
De Weerd: But thank you. I guess I would ask staff -- what were the conditions when
this first came through? I'm sure there is usually fencing discussions. What was the
requirement at that time?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, in the original Queensland Acres
development agreement or project it started out there was a proposal for the eight foot
masonry wall. When the previous owner came back for his development agreement
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 29 of 77
modification in 2009 that agreement was amended to include an eight foot vinyl fence
along the interface -- intertace of Bear Creek. We have gone out and looked at it and if
you go behind Lowe's you do have the taller fence or the landscaping and in our opinion
that effects apretty -- pretty decent separation and buffer between those residents and
the back of Lowe's. Our concern was not knowing that the association actually owned
the fence, our concern was that we have a number of private owners in there that
somebody might have an eight foot fence, butted up against their four to six foot fence
and that you would have this kind of strange configuration of two fences. We were
concerned about the possibility for trash and weeds and things to grow between the
two. We weren't sure what the individual property owners would want. We had
encouraged the applicant to talk with those folks, but, again, as we found out yesterday
from this gentleman's correspondence that the association actually owns that fence and
so we thought, well, rather than have this sort of hodge podge of fences, low fences,
high fences, no fences, it would make more sense to leave the existing fences in place
and get some very thick, tall vegetation between the existing fence in that landscape
area, so we could come close to what we have behind Lowe's. Now, knowing that it's
really the association who can speak as one entity, I think that presents more of an
opportunity for the two parties to come to maybe some meeting of the minds on this.
De Weerd: Well, I'm surprised that a subdivision fence is four feet.
Wafters: Absolutely, Madam Mayor, I did become aware of it today as I was reading
back through past minutes from previous hearings that it was only a little over four feet.
We had been out to the site, but we didn't actually put a tape on it, so my apologies for
the inaccuracy in the report. There are 14 different homeowners along that boundary,
but -- so, that is why we brought it out as an outstanding issue for the hearing tonight,
so that folks could maybe state, you know, what they would like to see there.
De Weerd: Okay.
Waters: The applicant has agreed to construct an eight foot tall fence. If -- you know, if
the HOA would agree to replace that existing fence, you know, that would seem like that
might be the best option, but that is Council's decision.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Frank, for your testimony.
Balkovetz: And just one more thing just to be consistent with the rest of the Walmart's
in Meridian, that they are all block. They are all cinder block. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Raphael Osoreo signed up against. Okay. Thank you. Or
actually, neutral. Thank you for being here. And if I messed up your name I apologize.
It wouldn't be the first time I'm sure. Sarah Schmidt signed up neutral.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just as Sarah is coming up, just for disclosure purposes,
Sarah called me when this --the news first hit that Walmart was looking at this property
or going to be applying for property and she asked me process questions about how
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 30 of 77
does this go forward and different things. I talked to her about the process and, then,
referred her to Pete, so just for disclosure we discussed it, but no details about the site,
nothing about the application, just how does an application move forward and, then,
referred her to planning staff, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Welcome. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Schmidt: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Sarah
Schmidt. I live at 649 West Christopher. My husband and I bought the home about five
and a half years ago and the reason we did is it was just so beautiful and stunning to
drive down Stoddard and into our -- our homeowners association and, quite frankly,
because of the wonderful city park that we had at Bear Creek and how well kept it is
and how well utilized it is for family activities and sporting events and to us the esthetics
of that was the selling point and as we have researched this issue as the councilman
mentioned, I want to thank your staff at P&Z for the help that they have been on the
background and how the process works and I will also mention that the -- the folks
involved with the applicant have been just as helpful in sharing lots of detailed
information and wanting to work with us. With that said, I just want to focus in on -- on
one issue and it's the one you were just talking about and it reminds me of the saying
we have all heard out west and that is that good fences make good neighbors and we
would respectfully request that you do add a requirement to the modified development
agreement requiring an eight foot fence. We are not one of the homeowners along the
southern boundary, so we are not personally affected and I do respect their opinion and
defer to your judgment on that. But we drive up and down Stoddard every time we
come into the association and into our home and if you -- if you have looked across the
street at the storage units that are there, it's actual very similar, that the way that was
approved and built -- if you look at the beautiful back of the storage units you don't see
the open part of the storage unit with boat covers on or off or RVs or whatever else is in
there, you see the beautiful back of the storage units and that's why from our
perspective the fence would really add value on that western boundary along Stoddard,
because it is an eight foot fence, our rationale there -- and we are not engineers -- but
our rationale is most people and most vehicles driving by aren't going to see over the
eight foot fence, but when you look at the height of the trucks, when you drive by the
back of Walmart stores in the area, even though they are very well kept, you know, it's
typical to have pallets stacked up outside of those screened areas and to have the trash
bins and those types of things and we just think it would be one small step that would
make a big difference and be the start of a great relationship between the applicant and
our neighborhood. So, with that thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Laura Webb signed up as neutral. Good evening.
Webb: My name is Laura Webb. I live at 646 West Christopher in Bear Creek
Subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 31 of 77
Webb: And, you know, I would say what could we do to make this better and I really do
believe they are trying. I think with the enhanced landscaping along the south side, that
sounds like a beautiful idea. I would like to see that enhanced landscaping on the
Stoddard side as well. As Sarah said, the storage unit is a nice facade. Bare
landscaping is not very attractive. I would like to see a well respected landscape
architect do a nice design plan for that, so when you turn onto there you're -- onto
Stoddard you're not seeing a Walmart, you're not seeing the back of it. And I believe
we have submitted some pictures of the Walmarts in other areas of the valley, along
with their landscaping and I was really quite surprised to see how well they do maintain
their stores. They are very clean, they are very organized, but they still are very
industrial and to see that when we turn onto Stoddard would not be pleasing, especially
if you were going to buy a new home and you turn onto the street and you thought, well,
you know, it's just a big industrial area, it looks like you're not going into a
neighborhood. We have got a beautiful church going in, we are going to have a school
going in and I would really like to see the enhanced landscaping. I do believe that a
fence would be nice. I know there was some concern about people loitering behind
there and a fence might screen that. But I think with a 24 hour store there is lots of eyes
at all times looking and there are cameras there. I don't think that the loitering would be
as big a problem as I think it would be, but it also -- with regards to access, if there was
a fence there, if somebody was -- if there was some kids doing things they weren't
supposed to back there, if they had to run the whole length of that to get away from
somebody they couldn't disperse just through the trees and run in any direction. So, I --
I would like to see the fence and I would like to see beautiful landscaping done by a
good landscape architect and not just simply lined up like we see here.
De Weerd: Okay.
Webb: And that's all I have. And I do believe that we sent you some pictures of some
of the existing Walmarts and some subdivisions with beautiful landscaping that's not too
wide, but that's done really well and very esthetically pleasing.
De Weerd: Yes. We did receive that and thank you.
Webb: Thank you so much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Those were the names that signed up. Is there anyone
else who would like to provide testimony? Okay. And I will say, Sarah, you made our
parks guy over here smile when you talked about the condition of the parks. Mike
Barton. He was very -- had a proud moment, so I couldn't let that go by. Would the
applicant like to --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 32 of 77
Rountree: I see Gary in the audience from ACHD. I have a question for you, Gary, if
you don't mind. Good evening.
Inselman: Good evening.
De Weerd: Hi, Gary. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Inselman: Madam Mayor, Council, Gary Inselman, development service manager for
the Ada County Highway District, 3775 North Adams.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Do you recall or have any information on the history of the emergency
access? Was that for the subdivision or was that for the commercial development?
Inselman: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I was trying to recall that myself when
you were asking the fire chief awhile back and that would be my concern, that it was
possibly necessary for the subdivision. I would want to look at the street layout and
review that before commenting on whether or not that stub could be closed completely.
Rountree: And it may have been there because the subdivision was not completely
built out at that time as well. I don't know.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- and it's just my -- my memory, so it
certainly could be faulty, but if you recall that part of this discussion was trying to create
access. We were potentially having one long -- one or two long buildings through the
back and access for the neighborhood. They likened it at the time to the Target that's
up at Chinden and Eagle and they have neighborhood access point there, so I think it
was potentially the possibility of emergency access, because we have the possibility of
one really long building with no other access points from the rear, but also potential
neighborhood access for the future and I think you're correct, Council Member
Rountree, that portion of the subdivision may not have been developed at that time back
in '07 I think when we were having this discussion, but I think those are the two things
that I recall talking about back in that time period.
De Weerd: I think those houses were there. That was -- that was more in -- during the
time when Bear Creek came through, it was connecting residential with -- with the
commercial and -- so that people didn't always have to go out onto the arterial to get to
where they wanted to go interior to the square mile. When they closed that off if was
determined that a pedestrian access would be nice, but it wasn't necessarily essential
for vehicle access and, again, I have to count on my memory, which sometimes fails
me, but I believe that was part of the discussion.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 33 of 77
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would have to agree with your --
De Weerd: You want to pull that --
Bird: Oh. I would have to agree with your memory. I believe that that was the reason
that was put in there. It was just like Mayor said, that -- that that was the original
discussion on it, if I remember right.
Rountree: Well, thank you. Good to see you.
Inselman: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thanks for answering that, Gary. Okay. If there -- again, if there is no
further testimony, Council, any further questions before the applicant closes? Okay.
Rountree: I have none.
Butler: Joann Butler again and Nick Taylor. We will do a little tag team here.
Something that I just wanted to bring to Council's attention just because -- since we are
talking about Alaska and it being closed off, somebody made me aware or told me that
the -- however the bollards are placed out there, that people are still able to squeeze
through. Okay? And so -- and I just said that I would bring that to somebody's
attention, because maybe they need to be placed differently to prevent that. I wasn't
sure if this -- but to make it clear, although on this site plan, which we have up on the
board just to show you the landscaping or a little bit, it does show the drive-thru
pharmacy. I wasn't sure if somebody from the audience was concerned that by virtue of
having that described on that site plan did it mean it was being approved tonight? It is
not and we understand that and it will go through its separate public hearing. We did
work hard with the neighbors, whether it was neighborhood meetings, phone, a-mail, to
try to get a decision about a consensus before we got to Council, but it looks like it's
going to be up to Council. On those two fence -- it's the fence along Stoddard and it's
the fence along the rear. Along Stoddard -- and we have heard -- you have heard folks
who have said that they would like to see an eight foot fence all the way along. I just -- I
can just say that with a ten foot screening, which Nick has estimated probably accounts
for about 40 percent of the linear length of -- of Stoddard from -- you would have that
ten feet screening at various places, you have the multi-use path, you would have the
berming and the landscaping, we think it would be more attractive. If the Council
decides otherwise, Council decides otherwise. With regard to the fence along the rear, I
have had discussions and I've had a conversation with the homeowners association
president this week in which he -- he told me that they had had their meeting and that
they had decided that they owned that perimeter fence. Your condition back in 2009 I
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 34 of 77
guess said that there would be a -- replace the eight foot fence with the permission of
the neighbors, because you recognize -- and I told this to -- I said this to the
homeowners association president, that even if the association owns the fence per se, it
is sitting on 14 different property owners' property and we have a -- we have a concern
about that. One, we don't know that we -- we certainly haven't been able to get a
consensus, we don't know that we would be able to get permission to go onto anybody's
property to put the fence and -- or everybody. We are concerned about liability, about
going onto somebody else's property to do that. Typically when somebody has a
condition that they have to meet they have to -- you have to meet it on their own
property. We discussed that with staff a little bit, that would mean putting up an eight
foot vinyl fence on our property. It would be abutting up against an existing fence. It
didn't seem to be an attractive solution and the landscaping ordinance and the
additional landscape did seem to be a better solution and more esthetically pleasing.
We can certainly put an eight foot fence -- vinyl fence on our property. Again, it doesn't
seem -- I was told by one of the neighbors that when there has been double fences like
that in this area what it's invited is people putting their grass clipping between the two
fences and so we don't want to really see that kind of a situation either. So, that's -- we
think staff has come up with a good solution and happy to comply with that condition of
approval, but if you do want us to put an eight foot fence on our property, I mean we can
do that. I think those -- did you have anything else? Okay. And so unless the Council
has other questions --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Joann, is a concrete fence -- block fence out?
Butler: You know --
Bird: I know -- I know you bought it with the 209 --
Butler: -- right. With that -- you know, when it came in --
Bird: -- modification, so -- but originally we did have aconcrete --
Butler: And partly the reason for -- and the reason for the block fence originally was
because of the orientation of the store --
Bird: That's right.
Butler: -- and the truck docks and whatnot and I think that what we have tried to do with
this site plan was to make a better site plan and make it better, you know, so that noise
and the truck traffic was not heard at the other side. So, our preference is to definitely
not do that, to include the landscaping and the vinyl fence, if -- the vinyl fence if the
Council deems it necessary.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 35 of 77
Taylor: And the primary concern that was voiced was for visual screening, not
necessarily noise screening, and we find that the effects of an eight foot vinyl fence are
the same as an eight foot concrete fence.
Bird: Okay.
Taylor: It's just a visual pleasing item.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Other questions from Council?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question. I think, Nick, you had mentioned on the west side, the Stoddard
side, there was berming involved. Can you explain that a little further about berming
and the landscaping?
Taylor: Yes.
Hoaglun: How high was that berming? The path -- or the sidewalk meanders it sounds
like, but -- and that was a ten foot area. Can you give me some more detail on that?
Taylor: Sure. Madam Mayor and Councilman Hoaglun, the proposed landscaping
solution that we had will be vetted through the planning staff during the zoning
compliance, but our typical -- our typical landscape bed along these -- these buffer
areas, specifically on Stoddard Road and ones that are similar, include berming and we
have had requests from staff that during the zoning compliance they will be looking for a
significant berming. Sometimes that varies between one and three feet, it's just a
natural top soil mound that's put out there and it gives alittle -- just a little more pleasing
effect than just having a flat area and that is what's been requested thus far and that's
something that we typically incorporate in our site designs and our landscape architect
plans on doing so.
Hoaglun: Okay. And, Madam Mayor, follow up with Nick on that. Then, does
landscaping go on top of that or is it some on top, some lower -- how does that -- how
does that get configured?
Taylor: Sir, the details will be worked out during the zoning compliance, but typically the
-- the trees will go at the top of those berms and, then, under there there will be a
ground cover and, then, surrounding that ground cover there is typically shrubs and
smaller -- smaller type plants and, of course, we will have to meet the UDC and the
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 36 of 77
significant design guidelines that have been set forth and I think those do have
requirements for plant types, shrubs, and trees as well.
Hoaglun: Okay. All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Joann, you offered some reasons why a fence
might not be such a good idea for you and staff has as well, because of the dual fence.
However, I think it's a good idea. And I understand, however, your concern with liability,
because that's what we deal with all the time. Is it possible that your client can get a bid
for replacement of that fence, submit that to the Bear Creek homeowners association,
have them move forward with that construction contract and your client pay the bill?
Bird: You know -- and I forgot to say, you know, because one of the neighbors said,
you know, that they would continue to work with us and that's certainly our intent, too, is
to continue to work with the neighbors. I -- to tell you -- I have never run into that
situation with Walmart per se and know what their policies are on that. It sounds like a
logical way to approach it and Ican -- we can certainly take it up with the client and
continue to work with the neighbors on that. I couldn't answer your -- your question
completely, but certainly the intent is to try to find a solution.
Rountree: With respect to the landscaping, I would improperly assume -- I would expect
that you would utilize a licensed registered landscape architect in the state of Idaho.
Taylor: That's correct, sir. We have hired one and he's working on the project now
Rountree: And that's going to be coordinated through the design review process?
Taylor: That's correct.
Rountree: Okay.
Taylor: As part of this zoning compliance.
Rountree: And that meets all the zoning requirements for both bordering the street, as
well as the buffer in the back of the -- or the side of the store along the neighborhood,
which is a 25 foot landscaped median -- buffer -- mound I assume as part of that?
Taylor: Yes, sir.
Rountree: Are you opposed to doing some work at the supposed emergency exit that
might ultimately close that off just to provide for pedestrian access and connect it up
with your pathway?
Taylor: If that's the final decision that Council makes, we would not be opposed to that.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 37 of 77
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Bird: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, if there is nothing -- Pete, do you have any final
remarks?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, no, I have no other comments, unless you
have any other questions for us.
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I just had a question for our police department. When it
comes to fences along public thoroughfares, the discussion about Stoddard and a fence
along there, I know in the past we have had issues in screening and when it comes to
hiding criminal activity and that sort of thing -- you haven't had the benefit of seeing this
particular map, but I think it's on your -- on your computer. Did you have any comment
you wanted to -- do you have a feeling one way or another about the -- about the -- the
potential of a fence along Stoddard between the backside of Walmart and the road?
De St. Germain: Madam Mayor and Councilman Hoaglun, the citizen that brought up
the point that they can rush out of the bushes and run one way are very appropriate.
So, we would prefer -- I mean if you're asking the police department that they would
have a -- they have a block wall there, that would provide a safer area for the citizens in
that area.
Hoaglun: Thank you, Mike.
De Weerd: And was that in reference to along Stoddard or --
Hoaglun: Yes. Madam Mayor, I was referencing Stoddard on that.
De St. Germain: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I don't want to sound at odds with the
police department. We had an initial discussion with Lieutenant Overton and he was
Juke warm at least to fencing along there. That's why we have been working with the
applicant to come up with a landscaping solution that, in fact, exceeds the minimum
UDC requirements in order to protect that visual quality along Stoddard Road. So, I
apologize, we didn't really coordinate on that, but I know Lieutenant Overton wasn't
particularly thrilled with the idea of a fence along Stoddard along the back there.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 38 of 77
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor and Pete. Yeah. It's one of those things it's almost six in one
hand, half a dozen in the other on those types of things and there is -- this is where we
have heard they do not want fencing. In some instances, well, you know, it may or may
not be a good thing and -- and this is one of those I think may or may not be -- it's
difficult when you don't have an elevation to show landscaping and that's down the road
a bit to say, oh, that will adequately screen the backside of this along Stoddard, which --
which is a main entrance into -- into Bear Creek. So, it is a thoroughfare that we want to
have looking nice and make it -- I think someone used the term industrial looking as you
make that first turn and go to a nice -- nice neighborhood with a very beautiful park. So,
that's just a matter of how we -- how that gets configured to make it -- make it look very
nice. so it is a critical one.
De Weerd: Well -- and I guess I would further muddy your discussion, because as we
look at our design in our parks, we -- we want that flat view in that the police department
can view from the arterial without having to drive into the area itself, because more
unlikely they are going to be looking from the interior or from the arterial and will not be
driving back behind the facility. So, that view into it is essential and the safety aspect --
and Iknow it's safety versus esthetic, so that's why you all get the big bucks and I just
run your meeting.
Rountree: Thank you, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other information needed by Council? I would entertain a
motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the public hearing on MDA 11-005.
Zaremba: Second.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-B. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Any discussion?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just want to comment on the -- on the south fence right now,
the one that's up against the neighborhoods and that one is one I would like to see
worked out a little further with the homeowners association and the company, the
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 40 of 77
because it's going to add value to this neighborhood. So, with that said have a nice
evening and you guys don't have to stay for the end of the meeting --
Rountree: But you can.
De Weerd: But you're more than welcome to continue to -- to see us through this
agenda. But thank you for all being here.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Since we have actually been going since 6:00 o'clock, I would request a five
minute recess.
De Weerd: Okay. I will --
Rountree: Second that.
De Weerd: -- recess until ten after 9:00.
(Recess: 8:58 p.m. to 9:12 p.m.)
C. Continued Public Hearing: TEC 11-003 Messina Meadows
Subdivision by Brighton Corporation Located North of E.
Amity Road; Midway Between S. Locust Grove Road and S.
Eagle Road Request: Two (2) Year Time Extension on the
Preliminary Plat
De Weerd: Okay. I will call this meeting back to order. We are at 8-C, which is a
continued public hearing on TEC 11-003. I will ask for staff comments.
Watters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The application before
you is a request for a two year time extension on a preliminary plat for Messina
Meadows Subdivision in order to obtain the city engineer's signature on the phase three
final plat. The remaining acreage to be platted is approximately 35.09 acres. The
property is currently zoned R-8 and is located north of East Amity Road, midway
between South Locust Grove Road and South Eagle Road. This is the third time
extension requested for the subject preliminary plat. The applicant has been unable to
commence the phase three due to the current housing market. As a condition of
granting a time extension, the city may require compliance with the current provisions of
the Unified Development Code. Staff has reviewed the pertinent files related to the
Messina Meadows project and offers the following assessment of the project: The
preliminary plat meets the current open space and site amenity standards listed in the
UDC. The planned development requires compliance with a concept plan and building
elevations and the remaining property left to be platted meets all of the R-8 dimensional
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 39 of 77
owners of the property on the other side. It's one of those issues that I hope that all the
neighbors along that area can get on board and support. I think Councilman Rountree
has thrown up some things that possibly might work and as we move down that fence to
the emergency access, if that's not needed anymore for emergency, to close that off
completely, but allow pedestrian access and assure that that's not going to be a future
use for a vehicle access, I think would be a -- would be a good thing, but I think we can
do some things along that area to -- to meet some of the needs that the residents there
in Bear Creek have expressed.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I will propose a motion. I move that we approve the
development agreement modifications with the following addition and change. The
addition would that if it's determined by staff that the emergency access can be
removed, that that access be designed solely as a pedestrian access. If the access
should remain, that the applicant should redesign or replace the bollards, so vehicular
traffic cannot bypass. With respect to the fence, the applicant will replace the existing
vinyl fence with an eight foot fence provided agreement can be reached with the
homeowners association and the adjacent property owners. If that cannot be
accomplished within a month, then, the recommendation by staff with respect to
landscaping be pursued after that's brought back to City Council for consideration.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. And I think clear direction for staff?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, yes, Members of the Council, is it your desire that we come
back to you in a month with an answer on the fencing along the south boundary, as well
as we will check with fire and police regarding the emergency access also?
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: That would be great. And just a reminder, when -- when Walmart -- they
weren't originally looking at the site, they were talking to the city on a different site in
south Meridian, but I will say part of the discussions were they were going to be a new
and updated look and it was going to be something the community would be proud of.
So, that has stuck in my head and I just look forward to what this look is going to be,
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 41 of 77
standards in the UDC. This is a copy of the site plan that was approved for Messina
Meadows, along with building elevations. You can see here on the screen. Staff
recommends approval of the time extension with no modifications to the conditions of
approval approved with the Messina Meadows project. Staff has received written
testimony, an a-mail from the applicant stating that he is in agreement with the staff
report. No other written testimony has been received on this application. The clerk's
office did receive a complaint regarding the weeds growing on the property and the
applicant has been notified of the complaint and has informed staff that the weed
removal is underway and will be taken care of. There are no outstanding issues for City
Council. Staff will stand for any questions the Council may have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this time?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to provide comment? If you will, please,
state your name and address for the record.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Mike Wardle, Brighton Corporation, 12601
West Explorer Drive in Boise. I have really nothing to add, just here to answer any
questions that you might have, but if you were to go out to the property today you would
find that there are a lot of finished lots and it just is not timely to add to that inventory, so
we would request your agreement with the extension of the time.
De Weerd: So, if we were to go out there today are the weeds down yet?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I went through there this afternoon on my way to the meeting.
The weeds on the lots themselves have been pretty well taken care of during the course
of the year. They were all sprayed early and so there has not been much growth. I
think the concern that was expressed by the individual that did contact the clerks office
relates to the undeveloped portion of the project. That property has not been
maintained in full agricultural production, so it does need to be mowed and cleaned,
because her property is right adjacent to this as yet undeveloped portion. So, that's the
one that still has to be taken care of, but it will be. I have already got several individuals
in -- above me in the responsibility chain alerted to that fact, so it will be taken care of.
De Weerd: And we won't have to be contacting you next year?
Wardle: If you have to contact me next year I will make certain that Mr. Turnbull is well
aware of --
De Weerd: We will just send the guys with the badges.
Wardle: That would be fine.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 42 of 77
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Mr. Wardle?
Rountree: I don't have any.
Bird: I have none.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like
to provide testimony on this item? Please. Good evening. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Stark: Yeah. My name is Steven Stark and I live at 2630 East Amity Road with my wife
Kathy and we are property owners and we are on the south side of the development.
You can see our little rectangle property where -- the property is on three sides of us.
And we do not oppose the extension. You know, I'm for the extension, but I would ask
that the property be maintained, you know, per code and in a safe manner. I have
some photos of the property right now and presently the weeds are high next door to us
and a fire hazard and also we can't irrigate our property properly, because there is
hundreds of feet of irrigation ditch there and normally -- I have a right to go on the
property and clean it myself, but it's like hundreds of feet and it's -- I can't burn it,
because it would -- the whole place would go up. So, I would ask that, you know, the
property be maintained, so that we can irrigate and also the weeds be mowed and also
what I'd like to do is ask that the house be either blocked off or maintained in a way that
wouldn't be an eye sore, because right now the windows are broken out, the doors are
open, there are people there. We have called the police a couple times, you know, it's
just not an appropriate way to leave it for the next two years, so -- and -- does anyone
want to see any photos?
De Weerd: If you could give it to our clerk and maybe you can pull out the overhead.
Stark: So, also, I guess in the past when Westpark had the development we had a
contact person, like if we saw something over there or we had something going on then
-- I did get a call for the -- before the meeting from Brighton Corp, but, you know, we
don't have a contact name for somebody. Like right now the fence is falling down on
the front of the property and it's just laying fallen down, so there is no one to contact
about the ditch, about the fence line down.
De Weerd: I bet Mr. Wardle will give you his name and number before the end of this
application.
Stark: Okay. Well, that's all I have to say. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 43 of 77
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Holman: Madam Mayor, I'm going to have to pass them down, because this -- for
whatever reason the system is not reading this dot cam over here.
De Weerd: Can we use this one up here? I'm sorry. If we are going to look at it, I want
to make sure the public has a look as well. Is there other testimony as we try to load
that up? Okay.
Holman: Madam Mayor, it's not reading anything other than the staff computer at this
point. It can't see either dot cam.
De Weerd: Well, I guess we can just suffice to say I think everyone is in agreement
that there are weeds out there and they need to be taken care of and -- okay. So, there
is no further public testimony. Mr. Wardle, do you want to provide any comment? And I
hope you haven't made -- you won't make a liar out of me.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, no additional comment, other than to state that I will not make
a liar out of you --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: -- and I will give this gentleman my card and we will address the issues that he
has raised. Brighton is just a recent involvement in this particular project, we have not
been the developer, but we intend to be involved in it in the future and that's why we are
here.
De Weerd: Well -- and I appreciate you clarifying it, because that is certainly not the
experience that the city has had with Brighton Corporation and -- and maybe the
neighbors can -- can gain some confidence with that.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mike, before you go -- and I appreciate your willingness to do it. We have
three issues. Weeds not being maintained, irrigation supply not being maintained, and
it looks like we have a rather attractive nuisance out there that's going to end up with a
fire if we are not --
Wardle: Yes. I have got all three of those.
Rountree: So, are you going to take care of all three of them?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 44 of 77
Wardle: Yes.
Rountree: Thank you.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Do I have a motion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I would just comment that if there is an abandoned building
out there, the fire department sometimes likes making an exercise out of them. If you
have intention to remove the building, you might offer the fire department some training.
De Weerd: After the weeds are down.
Bird: After the weeds are down, yeah.
Zaremba: After the weeds are gone.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close TEC 11-003.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close Item 8-C. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve TEC 11-003 for the two year time extension and request that
Brighton Corporation take care of the problems they got out there and I know they will.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 45 of 77
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve item C with a vote of confidence.
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Hearing: VAR 11-002 Regency at River Valley by The
Regency at River Valley, LLC Located at 2500 N. Eagle Road
Request: Variance to Unified Development Code (UDC) 11-3H-
46 to Allow a Temporary Right-in/Right-out Access for the Site
via N. Eagle Road
De Weerd: Item No. 8-D is VAR 11-002. I will open this public hearing and ask for staff
comments.
Watters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application
before you is a variance request to the Unified Development Code, Section 11-3H-46,
to allow a temporary right-in, right-out access for the site via North Eagle Road. The
site consists of 13.56 acres, is currently zoned R-40 and C-C and is located at 2500
North Eagle Road, midway between Fairview and Ustick. The Unified Development
Code requires access to be acquired from a street other than the state highway, in this
case State Highway 55, Eagle Road, if an applicant proposes a change or increase in
intensive use on the property. The property was previously zoned RUT in Ada County
and was a residential property. The subsequent annexation, a high density residential
development was approved on the eastern portion of the site. A future commercial use
is planned for the western portion of the site, thus constituting a change in use and
increase in the intensity of the use on the property. This is a copy of the site plan
showing the proposed temporary access. The applicant proposes the temporary right-
in, right-out access for the site via North Eagle Road until such time as East River
Valley Road is extended along the southern boundary of the site. There you can see
right here. Due to the existing alignment of River Valley on the west side of Eagle
Road, the right of way for the extension of River Valley on the east side of Eagle lies
entirely on the property to the south, the Meridian Town Center, also known as the
Center Cal site. Until such time as River Valley is extended access is not available to
this site unless a subject variance is granted. Granting the variance will allow the
applicant to move forward with occupancy after construction of the apartments if
necessary, while waiting for the extension of River Valley to be completed. Once River
Valley is constructed the access from Eagle Road will be removed and access to the
multi-family development will be provided via two access points to and from River
Valley. Emergency access only will be provided via Allys Avenue at the east boundary
of the site. Future access to the commercial portion of the site will be provided through
cross-access easements with adjacent properties to the south by a driveway to the
future extension of River Valley. The Idaho Transportation Department submitted a
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 46 of 77
response to this application stating that they have no comment, other than that a permit
will be required for work to be done within the state right of way. ITD approval will take
place when a permit is applied for. The applicant -- applicant's representative did
submit a response in general agreement with the staff report. No other written
testimony was submitted on this application. Staff is recommending approval of the
proposed variance per the findings in Exhibit B of the staff report. Staff will stand for
any questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? And would you like to provide comment?
If you will, please, state your name and address.
Rindlisbacher: Yes. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Randy
Rindlisbacher, with the Regency At River Valley, LLC. My address is 11650 South
State Street in Draper, Utah.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rindlisbacher: The purpose of this request is like she had stated, River Valley Road,
that right of way, is not on our property, so we have no control over when that road will
be built. We have had communications with Center Cal, we are very optimistic that it
will be moving forward very soon, but as a precaution we are requesting this temporary
access, so that when we proceed with construction we haven't spent millions of dollars
and have absolutely no access. We anticipate that we will never construct the
temporary access. We are hopeful that River Valley Road will be built before we need
occupancy, but, again, we have no control over that, so we feel that we need to have
some kind of guarantee of some type of access, that will be abandoned as soon as
River Valley Road is constructed.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: It's probably for staff, but the write up indicates that Allys Way would be for
emergency access and I can understand that with the -- basically a stub street there
and nothing to the north. But at some point in time that road will go all the way to Ustick
and so does this statement here preclude that or should it be qualified that it's
emergency access until such time as Allys Way is completed?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 47 of 77
Wafters: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, Councilmen, there are no conditions of
approval with the subject variance.
Rountree: Okay.
Wafters: Allys is proposed only as an emergency access, but you're right, at some point
it will be extended to the north. However, I don't know if it was ever contemplated
necessarily for an access other than emergency to the property.
Rindlisbacher: If I could comment on that. The emergency access onto Allys was
planned to be permanent. Again, it is only emergency access and the fire department
wanted some type of access for emergency other than -- permanently the only access
to the site will be River Valley Road once River Valley is constructed, so they wanted an
emergency access onto Allys. So, the Allys access is permanent as an emergency
only. The Eagle Road access is temporary that we are requesting.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My recollection on the emergency access to Allys, the northern property line
of this is a canal or some other feature and the distance from River Valley to that canal
wouldn't meet ACHD's requirement for how far that driveway can be from the
intersection and although the emergency services wanted to have some access there,
the reason it's not ever going to be public access is that it's too close to the intersection
and it can't be moved.
Rindlisbacher: Yeah. That's why it would be emergency access only.
Zaremba: Yeah.
De Weerd: Thank you for the clarification. Anything further from Council? Thank you.
Rindlisbacher: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there any further testimony on this item? Okay. Council, seeing no
further testimony, if there is no questions for staff or applicant, I would entertain a
motion to close.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move we close the public hearing on VAR 11-002.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 46 of 77
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-D. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move approval of VAR 11-002 to allow a temporary right-in, right-out access
for the site via North Eagle Road.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-D. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk, roll call, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Hearing: Proposed Fall 2011 Fee Schedule of the
Meridian Parks & Recreation Department
De Weerd: Item 8-E is our public hearing for the proposed fall 2011 fee schedule for
the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department and will ask Allison to present this item.
Kaptein: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I am once again
before you with our fee schedule for fall classes and activities. Normally I put this up on
the overhead projector, but I guess that's not in the works for this evening. You should
have a copy of the updated fee schedule that you received in your packets. The new
fees are delineated in yellow -- new fees and any changes that we have to current
classes and if you want to take a moment to look it over I will, then, stand for any
questions if you have any.
De Weerd: Okay. And that is in the Council's packet, as well as it was available on the
online packet, too. Council, any questions at this point?
Rountree: I have none
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 49 of 77
Bird: Madam Mayor, I don't have any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. I will ask for any public comment and, then, bring you back up
in case there is any further questions.
Kaptein: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone in the public who would like to provide testimony on this
item? It's always such a draw for public comment. Council, any questions or
comments?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: None.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-E. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
F. Resolution No. 11-800: A Resolution Adopting the Fee
Schedule of the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department;
Authorizing the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department to
Collect Such Fees; and Providing an Effective Date
De Weerd: Our next item is Item 8-F. It's Resolution No. 11-800. It is a resolution on
what we just entertained in public hearing. Council, any questions on this item?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve resolution 11-800.
Hoaglun: Second.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 50 of 77
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-F. If there is no discussion
from Council, Madam Clerk, roll call
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Public Hearing: ZOA 11-003 UDC Text Amendment -Wine and
Beer Shops by Meridian Planning Department Request: Amend
the Text of Certain Sections of the Unified Development Code
(UDC) to Allow for Retail Wine and Beer Shops to Offer
Servings of Such for Purchase by the Bottle or Glass
De Weerd: Item 8-G is a public hearing on ZOA 11-003. It's a UDC text amendment.
Mr. Nary or Pete, who is taking this? Oh, Sonya.
Wafters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application
before you is an amendment to the text of certain sections of the Unified Development
Code to allow for retail wine and beer shops to offer servings of such for purchase by
the bottle or glass. The Planning Department is proposing changes to the UDC to add a
new use category that is different from a restaurant use in that food isn't served and
beer and wine is offered for sale and is less intense than a drinking establishment and
offers beer and wine sales. The use includes, but is not limited to wine shops and
brewing supply stores and does not include drinking establishments, restaurants, or
stores that sell wine and beer, but do not offer servings. The new use is proposed to be
a permitted use in the C-N, C-C, C-G, OT, and T-NC districts and an accessory use in
the H-E district. Specific use standards are proposed to regulate the proposed use that
require the applicant to maintain a current wine and beer sales permit for on-premise
consumption, which includes retail sales and it prohibits liquor sales. The applicant is
required to comply with all state, county, and local laws regarding serving alcohol. Wine
and beer servings are limited to the hours between 11:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. Store
hours of operation are not limited unless otherwise restricted by the UDC per the zone.
The Commission did recommend approval of the subject application at their July 21st
public hearing. Planning Department testified in favor of the application. No one
commented or opposed the application. Written testimony was received from Eileen
Dudenocki and Christina Burneski. Key issues of discussion by the Commission was to
clarify the criteria for determination of the proposed new use versus a drinking
establishment or restaurant. Commission did change staff recommendation to extend
the hours in which beer and wine may be served, to extend it 9:00 to 10:00 p.m. There
has been no written testimony since the Commission hearing and there are no
outstanding issues for Council. Staff will stand for questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions on this item?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 51 of 77
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any member of the public who would like to provide
testimony on this item? I guess I would just like to provide feedback to staff. I know the
two that have provided written testimony are very complimentary of how staff has
worked with them on this issue, has kept them informed of the process, and I would like
to extend my appreciation.
Watters: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, if there is no questions for staff on this, I would entertain a motion
to close.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the item for public hearing on Item 8-
G. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the text amendment with the staff's recommended
modification from serving from a 9:00 p.m. close to a 10:00 p.m. close.
Hoaglun: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-G. Seeing no
discussion, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
H. Public Hearing: ZOA 11-004 UDC Text Amendment -Water
Conserving Landscapes by Meridian Planning Department
Request: Amend the Text of Certain Sections of the Unified
Development Code (UDC) to Encourage the Use of Water-
Conserving Landscape Designs
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 52 of 77
De Weerd: Item 8-H is a public hearing on ZOA 11-004, another UDC amendment --
text amendment. And I will turn this over to Pete.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Currently the
landscaping section of the UDC has a sentence in there that says that the use of
xeriscapic landscaping is encouraged and that's all it says and so based upon our
Comprehensive Plan's goal to promote sustainability and reduce reliance on city water
for irrigation as part of some further discussions we had last year in our department
action plan. We set about to amend the landscaping ordinance to, again, promote
rather than require a water conserving landscaping. So, a little over a year ago we
convened a steering committee of three landscape architects and kind of plowed
through back and forth a kind of iterative process on what we wanted to see and what
we came up with was an option in the code that would allow the director to approve new
landscaping plans that have water conserving elements in them to avoid having to
achieve the 70 percent coverage, because as we all agreed probably the easiest thing
to do to meet our code is throw in a bunch of turf, throw in a couple of trees and just
water the dickens out of it. We kind of concluded that the approach we were taking is to
encourage folks -- and it's going to really be somebody that's, A, interested in doing the
right thing and, B, is interested in conserving water, particularly if they have to use city
water to irrigate. So, we have come up with some criteria in the code that addresses
that landscaping plan. We have a list of water conserving tree species. We directed
our landscape design professionals to the Boise city parks department list of approved
plantings for the Treasure Valley and our climate and we also in this amendment started
addresses the use or our reuse water for irrigation when it's available. So, the P&Z had
their hearing on this. No testimony was submit by anyone other than staff. There were
no outstanding issues and they are recommending approval.
De Weerd: Thank you, Pete. Any questions for staff at this time, Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any public testimony on this item? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close Item 8-H.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 53 of 77
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-H. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve ZOA 11-004 with staff comments.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-H. Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
I. Public Hearing: ZOA 11-005 UDC Text Amendment -Dispatch
Centers by Meridian Planning Department Request: Amend the
Text of Certain Sections of the Unified Development Code
(UDC) to Allow for Dispatch Centers for Mobile Services
De Weerd: Item 8-I is a public hearing on ZOA 11-005, UDC text amendment. Sonya.
Wafters: The next application before you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, is an
amendment to the text of certain sections of the Unified Development Code to allow for
dispatch center for mobile services. The Planning Department proposes to add a new
use category in the UDC for mobile service providers. Contractors and other personal
and/or professional services that travel to the customer as part of the service provided
are included in this category. Examples are taxis, landscape maintenance contractors,
carpet cleaners, maid service, and food delivery. This use excludes the service and/or
repair of fleet vehicles. This use is different from a contractors yard in the equipment
associated with the mobile service is contained within the vehicle and the provider
travels to the customers to perform work. Work is not carried out on the site. The new
use is proposed to be a permitted use in the C-G and I-L districts and a conditional use
in the C-N, C-C, L-O and M-E districts. Specific use standards are proposed to regulate
the proposed use to prohibit outdoor storage of materials, require adequate off-street
area to be provided for fleet vehicle storage and that prohibits the site from being used
as a contractor's yard, a vehicle wrecking or junk yard, and/or a freight or truck terminal.
Commission did approve -- recommend approval of this application at their July 21st
public hearing. Planning Department testified in favor of the application and no one
commented or opposed the application and no written testimony was submitted. There
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 54 of 77
were no key issues of discussion by the Commission and there were no changes to the
staff recommendation by the Commission. No written testimony has been submitted to
the city since the Commission hearing and there are no outstanding issues for City
Council. Staff will stand for any questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I have none. I have no questions.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any member of the public who would like to testify on this
item? Okay. Seeing none --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearing for Item 8-I.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on this item. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move we approve text amendment ZOA 11-005.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-I. Madam Clerk, roll call,
please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Parks Department: Discussion on the Proposal to Landscape
the Area Along Dawson Street by Ashford Greens
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 55 of 77
Homeowner's Association to City of Meridian/Lakeview Golf
Course
De Weerd: Council, I'm going to ask for your patients on this and that of the building
department staff, I am going to take my executive privilege and move Item 8-B ahead of
8-A --
Rountree: Nine.
De Weerd: Nine -- 9-B ahead of 9-A. We have citizens that have been waiting patiently
and I know we have contractors who have been equally patient, but if -- if you will humor
me, I will put B before A.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: On 9-B I need to mentioned that I am a resident of the Ashford Greens and a
member of the Ashford Greens homeowners association. I live some distance to the --
from the spot that we are going to be talking about and I don't personally believe,
whichever way this goes, it creates any conflict of interest for me, but I just wanted to
mention that I am a member of the Ashford Greens homeowners association. I don't
know whether the attorney would care to comment on that. If -- if somebody thinks I
should recuse myself I will, but I don't feel I need to.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if Councilman Zaremba -- I guess the
only other question -- you're not on the board for Ashford Greens, are you?
Zaremba: I am not on the board.
Nary: Okay. So, I wouldn't see there is any conflict.
De Weerd: Okay. I guess I would ask Mr. Rountree if he wants to do a quick
introduction on this item and, then, I believe Mike has some information.
Rountree: Council, we have a focus group on the golf course that we meet almost
quarterly. The homeowners at Ashford Greens have approached the city about
cooperatively partnering on some irrigation and landscaping, which would consist
primarily of turf in the vicinity of the clubhouse, specifically on I believe it's Dawson and
fronting on where the golf course shop is. We met with them, we have asked staff to
provide us a cost of -- of making those improvements. The homeowners have
generously offered to maintain that landscaping and irrigate it. They have offered,
actually, to fund I believe about 3,500 dollars worth of improvements. I have also asked
the Parks Department to put together some numbers to complete the improvements on
the golf course frontage which would be between the existing parking lot and the golf
course itself that has been pretty much derelict for a number of years and needing some
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 56 of 77
TLC. So, Mike is here tonight to give us some numbers and we have at least three
residents from the homeowners association here this evening. I appreciate you
gentlemen endearing -- enduring or whatever -- either way this event this evening. So,
we will hear some numbers and, then, I will have a comment or two after Mike's
presentation.
Barton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mike.
Barton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks, Councilman Rountree, for that.
I think that was -- you know, you pretty well summarized it, we were approached by the
board at Ashford Greens about unimproved area that's directly next to the golf course
maintenance shop. They had some concerns and originally asked if -- if they could
improve the area and through discussion we had decided that there was a little more to
it and we really wanted to do it right, so the idea of partnering with the homeowners
association was brought up. One proposal that we talked about was to provide them a
30 year lease of that area in exchange for irrigation improvements and the maintenance
of that area for that 30 year term. Our obligation would be approximately 6,800 dollars,
of which we can fund through our savings and our operating budget this year. It would
not require a budget amendment. We feel it's a great partnership opportunity, it's a
way to beautify an area of frontage that is currently just weeds and dirt and we -- the
department fully supports it and look forward to working with Ashford Greens to improve
the area.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mike.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, question for Mike. Mike, that number includes what? The
6,800.
Barton: The 6,800 dollars is to -- there is aNampa-Meridian easement that -- that goes
through that area. This is where -- where people currently park on top of the gravel, that
would have to be bermed up over that. That's a culvert that has minimal gravel cover
on it. So, there is enough top soil -- we figured about 250 to 300 yards of top soil to
berm that, do soil improvements, and then, add some boulders along that to prevent
people from parking in there and, then, that would be to sod the entire affected area
that's irrigated by the homeowners association.
Rountree: And did you as well come up with a number for the remainder of the -- from
the golf course parking entrance north along the irrigation easement?
Barton: No, sir. That's not included in this proposal.
Rountree: Okay. Okay. We will get that clarified. Thanks, Mike
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 57 of 77
Bird: I'd just like to make a statement. I think if we are going to go out there and do that
we need to go all the way to the road and get the other stuff done. You know, that is a
right of way of our city property and we need to make it look decent and to be truthful
with you and one of the few that's been here since the golf course was built in '78, we
have put little or no money into that course and I think that if we can find the money we
need to go completely from there to the road and, then, maybe next year we can look at
going from road to road. I think it's an eye sore in my opinion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? That's a perfect segue into my comment. I have the same
feeling about this. I really appreciate the homeowners bringing that back to our
attention. I believe that even though their offer is very generous I believe the city should
take care of the cost of improving that if they agree to enter into along-term
maintenance agreement with respect to mowing and watering the particular area they
are interested in. I also feel strongly that we should make some improvements on the
frontage of the golf course there on the parking lot and get that grass cleaned up. We
have not discussed that with the golf course at this point in time, but I want to pursue
that. I wish we would pursue it. I would hope that the Council would agree to do that,
get parks and rec to put together an irrigation plan and a cost to do that and run that by
the golf course managers and get the entrance to the golf course looking like it's
something that we can be proud of, instead of kind of a dust bowl and a resting ground
for things that they don't know what to do with. So, I just bring that and hopefully these
gentlemen can walk out of here with some extra money in their homeowners account,
be agreeable to hook up -- and my thought is hook up with their irrigation system,
unless it's possible to tie into the golf course, but it seems -- they have got a system
right there, I mean it just abuts this piece of property. Would be very easy for them to
do it and Mike pointed out -- and I agree when we talked about it, that if it's our irrigation
system and them maintaining it and our irrigation system doesn't work, they are going to
be -- we are going to be pointing fingers at each other. So, it's better that they take the
whole thing on and they have agreed to do that, I believe, and now I'll open it up I guess
for whichever one of the three of you can speak.
Barton: Before -- well, Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, so if I understand
correctly, we are -- we will come back to you with a cost estimate and a proposal and
some suggestions for a funding source that improves the golf course frontage from
Ashford Greens common area on the south across the entire frontage, which includes
part of the parking lot islands that directly impact the road and the frontage. Some of
that may require -- we may not be able to connect to their irrigation system, but we will
have to do some more discovery. I know part of it can, part of it may not, but we will
come back with the most cost effective proposal and most bang for our buck that we
can.
De Weerd: Yeah, Mike, I think you're going to have to look at it as two different
projects. This one would be on their irrigation with that maintenance agreement. The --
what we would like you to go back and price out would be something that would be city
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 58 of 77
and lessee, you know, discussions that it would be separate from this, but a Council
desired project. So, just --just to clarify this.
Barton: That's clear.
De Weerd: So, also the homeowners association doesn't think they are going to gain
more irrigatable land and maintenance. Although if you're open to it, we love public-
private partnerships. So, I just wanted to make sure that was clear and it was -- that
was the intent.
Rountree: That was the intent. It's, essentially, two projects. I'd like to see the
partnership with the homeowners in effect and in place by the middle of September. It's
not that big of area to take care of and the rest can follow, because I know there is
probably some issues with the irrigation, but I'd like to see the numbers and I'd like to
see us move forward and get that done if we can this fall.
Barton: And there is a chance -- we will -- in that -- in the area that is south of the
entrance we will need a lease agreement generated and some of a maintenance
agreement or memorandum of understanding that Ashford Greens will maintain it,
provided we install it, connect it to their irrigation system. We will have to get some
pretty firm numbers and look at our budgets. There may not -- we will just have to look
at that. Just a heads up that --
Rountree: I believe Council has some budget in our
Bird: That's right.
Rountree: That we haven't used. So, that's a possibility there.
Barton: Yeah. A funding source may have to --
Rountree: And the agreement -- I believe Bill may know, but Ted was working on an
agreement and I haven't seen a draft yet, but --
Nary: Yeah. He is working on it, yes.
Rountree: He is.
De Weerd: But I think he had a commitment to have that on the first Council meeting of
September
Rountree: September.
De Weerd: So this can move forward in this budget year.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 59 of 77
Barton: And Ihave -- I have submitted the proper documentation to Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation for a license agreement to do work on that easement. They had the scope of
work and the drawings last week submitted in their office, we are just waiting for a board
meeting. So, that will be on its way.
De Weerd: When do they meet?
Barton: I don't want to misquote, but I will place a call and try to push that, because I
know that -- I know we want to get it done this fall.
De Weerd: Right.
Barton: So, we are -- we will get that as soon as we possibly can.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mike. Okay. Would you like to provide some comment,
information? If you can -- and I would ask if you could give us your name and address
for the record.
Howell: Okay. Ronald Howell. I am at 2622 North Waggle Place in Ashford Greens
and I am on the board of directors.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Howell: And we have two other members of the board here and we have been talking
about this for awhile and we, first, would like to have purchased the property, but that
wasn't possible and, then, other things came up. Anyway, now just a clarification. Are
you talking about the city providing all the cost for doing that, the irrigation hooking to
our system --
Rountree: Yes.
Howell: -- and, then, we will just be doing the maintenance?
Rountree: You will just be doing the maintenance.
Howell: Okay. That's very good. That's even better than we thought.
De Weerd: I was hoping that you would try and talk us out of it.
Howell: Well, no. No. It's been been sitting there ugly for many many years.
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: And I know that Councilman Rountree had mentioned this, that this was
very unexpected, very generous of the homeowners association and you have provided
a very immaculate entryway into not only your subdivision, but it is kind of the formal
Meridian City Council
Augusl23, 2011
Page 60 of 77
entrance into the golf course as well and I know this was kind of that final connecting
piece that has probably bothered you and the board for some time. So, you brought a
solution to the city and it's greatly appreciated.
Howell: Okay. Good. Thank you.
Rountree: Thank you. Madam Mayor, I would move that this -- have the parks and rec
staff move forward with putting together and finalizing the plan for the first phase of this,
which would be from Ashford Greens to the clubhouse and work with the irrigation
district, do the engineering on the irrigation system, get the irrigation installed and get
the site prepared with additional fill and sodded and move forward with putting together
the design and engineering and the agreement with Nampa-Meridian on the second
phase, which would be on the north side of the parking lot -- upper parking lot entrance
-- what's the name of the street? Talamore. From there to Talamore along the irrigation
easement.
De Weerd: And that's Harbor Point.
Rountree: You know the road I mean. It's Harbor Point or Talamore.
Barton: I believe it's Talamore.
Rountree: Okay. And include in that the area that abuts the golf course that is currently
in weeds and bare soil.
Barton: Councilman Rountree, this is the area that is on top of the -- the tiled irrigation
ditch or parking lot frontage?
Rountree: Parking lot frontage and from the graveled irrigation pipe to the golf course
where it's currently just bare soil.
De Weerd: So, it's from the driveway to Harbor Point.
Rountree: Harbor Point.
De Weerd: Thank you. And, then, to hole one or where the --
Rountree: To the first tee.
De Weerd: Yeah. First tee.
Bird: It's from the curb onto the golf course.
De Weerd: Yeah.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 61 of 77
Rountree: I don't have a map. We can go out and walk it, but it's pretty obvious when
you go out there --
Barton: Yeah.
Rountree: --that that is not green.
Barton: We will -- if it's bare dirt we will develop cost proposals and we will come back
and present those to you.
Bird: You bet.
Rountree: So that's my motion.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Can you restate that?
Rountree: No. Not unless you want me to try.
De Weerd: No. That was painful enough. There is a motion on the floor. Is there any
discussion on that? Okay. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: And, Mike, when you come back, then, on the first meeting of next month,
which is the 6th of September, I assume that we will have the agreement from the
attorney's office. If you can let us know what Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District says on
if they have approved it or when their board meets, so we know when to expect that.
Okay. And we will follow up with the homeowners association. Okay. Very good.
Thank you so much for your patience in waiting to this part of our agenda. But it's
always nice having the public here.
Item 9: Department Reports
A. Public Works/Building & Development Services Department
Report: Professional Services Contract Renewals for
Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing, Fire, and Structural
Inspectors
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-A is our Public Works Building Department and I will turn this
over to Bruce.
Meridian City Council
Augusl 23, 2011
Page 62 of 77
Freckleton: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Two weeks ago we
were in front of you with our division update. During that update I kind of broached the
subject of our current negotiations for the new contracts for professional services
agreements with our -- for our inspection and plan review services. Tonight we wanted
to roll out some of the key points from those negotiations and seek your guidance and
direction as we move forward. Hopefully this Powerpoint is going to work for us here.
There we -- oh, man. What the heck? Don't know why that looks like it does, but,
basically, what that first bullet says -- this is a situation statement. New two year
contracts -- or professional services agreements were negotiated, approved, and signed
on November 24th, 2009. Those agreements are set to expire the last day of
September without any provision in those contracts for automatic extensions or
renewals. Wow. I don't know what's going on here. During the drafting of these new
PSAs that we have been working on, four of our five contract -- contractors have
requested increases in the amount of compensation that they receive for their services.
These requests affect both the percentages that the contractors receive of each building
permit that's issued, as well as increase in permit fees. Some cases it's one or the
other, some cases it's both. As we moved forward we -- we thought it best that we -- as
we negotiate these contracts that we look at a three year contract period that would
become effective on October 1st, 2011. I wanted to give you a little bit of a --just kind
of a background as to what the professional services agreement contractors do for the
City of Meridian. The first thing is they do comprehensive plan review of all building
plans for commercial and residential construction in the city. They do comprehensive
inspection services for those structures. They do building code enforcement when that
becomes necessary. They also represent the city at any meetings requested by city
officials. Some example of those would be preapplication meetings with applicants to
try and get applicants on the right path when they -- when they begin their process with
the city. Planning department comments meetings as we try and develop standard
comments and -- for a project when it is actually submitted. Legal code enforcement
meetings in those cases when we do have enforcement actions that we have started on
properties. As you might imagine, there are several meetings that are required getting
all of the affected parties at the table. They also meet with architects and owners in
coordination meetings for design considerations for new projects and they meet with
several homeowners, as you might imagine, as projects that those folks are carrying on
come up. I wanted to roll out some of the advantages that we see of having a
professional service agreement contractor relationship with the city. Relationship
duration we find is a huge benefit. We have got established relationships with the
building community, as much as 20 years. I think Daunt -- Daunt's probably been with
us the longest of the group and he's been with 20 plus years, I believe. Staffing
flexibility during up and down economic periods. That kind of speaks for itself. We --
we have really realized that with this recession that we have been in. The city in
contracts with these folks we have in there that they staff up or staff down to meet the
demand. Institutional knowledge. Again, with the relationship duration that we have
had with most of these folks, there is a lot of institutional knowledge and understanding
of city software, processes, and procedures. I apologize for these slides. I'm not sure
what is going on with our -- with our text here, but --
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 63 of 77
De Weerd: You should have had them do it. They have understanding of the city
software.
Freckleton: Touche. Our contractors conduct inspection services and uphold the city's
core values and, therefore, our customers don't realize that they are contracted.
Tonight as we were waiting for some of the items to come up I was speaking with --
well, during break I was speaking with Mike Wardle and he was asking what we were
here for and he didn't even realize that our inspection team here in the City of Meridian
are contracted to us and so I think that's a huge testament to -- to the guys that we have
and the relationships that we have with them, that our building community doesn't even
realize that they are contracted. And going back to what I presented to you a couple
weeks ago, we had one slide in there where we talked about our customer satisfaction
surveys, that we go out and touch base with builders in the field to find out how we are
doing and those satisfaction surveys have consistently indicated high levels of
satisfaction. At this point in time I would like to -- since we do have our guys here and
they have taken time out of their evening, I would like to introduce them and maybe
have them stand up as I introduce them just so that you can put a face with the
contractor. From Whitman and Associates, Daunt Whitman is here and Daunt is our --
is our structural inspector. He's also the acting building official for the City of Meridian.
We have Terry Medley, who represents RIMI, Inc. They are our mechanical inspectors.
We have Harold Welch and Jim Welch. They are our electrical inspectors. We have
Rick Jackson, Jackson Code Consulting, and Rick is our fire plan review and inspector.
We have Dennis Holty and Bob Rawlins here. Thank you. They are our plumbing plan
review and inspection team. At this point in time I'm going to turn time over to Brent and
he's going to go into some of the details of some of the key points in our negotiations
and, then, I will close up at the end.
Bjornson: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This first slide
depicts the structural fee and relationship history we have with Whitman and
Associates. Daunt Whitman, as Bruce indicated, he's been serving the city for I think 20
plus years. The last time the fees were modified in the structural or building permit fee
area was in 2007. During that time we changed methodology for calculating fees based
on valuation and we also changed the majority of the structurally related fees. Those
increased. What you see below is the current benchmark of the ranking of the cities,
really, in permit fees from highest to lowest and I wanted to point out that these are
building structural permit fees only, they do not include impact fees, assessment fees or
other departmental fees. Strictly the building permit. You can see that the City of
Meridian is the second to the lowest in the valley with the comparisons we have done
here. On the commercial valuation there on the left side of the slide at the bottom we
based those values on a commercial building permit of 650,000 dollars and a square
footage of about 600 -- I'm sorry 6,500 square feet. That commercial comparison, as
well as the residential next to it are typical of the next few slides we will look at as well.
The residential comparison, we looked at a 2,200 square foot home. Again, those are
the building permit fees for that home. Building permit fees only. You can see where
the City of Meridian falls there within the line up. Moving on to the next slide. The
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 64 of 77
mechanical fee and the relationship history with RIMI, Inc., Terry Medley, who has been
searing the City of Meridian for 19 years, the fees were last modified in mechanical in
2007. This, too, had a change to calculating fees and a slight increase in fees overall.
Benchmarking there, again, you can see the commercial and residential for that
650,000 dollar value to the commercial and the 2,200 square foot home. Meridian lands
second from the top as far as the highest fees. The electrical fee and relationship
history with Harold's Electric Company, Inc., Harold Welch, has been serving the City of
Meridian for about six years. These were last modified here for electrical in 2007.
Again, methodology change for calculating fees. There was really no significant
increases in fees in the past decade for electrical. Minor methodology changes and
miscellaneous in 2007. You will notice the benchmarking there, across the valley as
well in commercial, Meridian is at the bottom with the lowest fees in the valley. And in
residential we are second from the top. The plumbing permit fee history and
relationship with DMH Enterprises, Dennis Holty, about six years of service, these last
modified two decades ago. The City adopted the state fee schedule at that time.
Benchmarking. They are about the middle of the pack for the plumbing fees. Or we are
you can see in both residential and commercial there. And, then, the last slide here as
it relates to the disciplines is a flier and we modified these with Jackson Code
Consultants, which Jackson -- this was done in 2007 under Green Fire Protection
Services. Rich has been serving the City of Meridian for about two years now. In 2007
we had a methodology change to calculating fees, as well as a slight increase in fees
overall. At this time there is no increased proposed in the fire discipline. That is --
summarizes what I had to cover on the five disciplines and I'm going to put it back to
Bruce to discuss the options that we have considered.
Freckleton: Thank you, Brent. So, again, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we
do have our contractors here if any questions come up and you'd like to ask them any
questions, I'm sure they would be happy to -- to address those with you. As we have
had these discussions the proposals that have come forward, as I mentioned before,
there has been some -- some proposed changes to contract percentages. If you will
remember the contacts do -- the provisions in the contracts for compensation, the
contractors of each of those disciplines receive a percentage of each type of permit.
So, one of the proposals that has come forward is adjustments to those contract
percentages and another proposal is to adjust permit fees. In some cases they have
asked for both. But what it boils down to for us -- and this is what we would like to kind
of get your -- get your temperature on tonight and get some guidance and direction for
moving forward, is if we were to adjust the contract percentages and leave the permit
fees as they are, what we see as pros and cons of that -- that scenario, pro would be
that the building community would not be impacted. Permit fees would -- would remain
the same for the -- for the contractor coming to the front counter pulling permits. The
compensation would be taken out of the percentages that the contractor would receive.
The impact of that is that when we increase percentage of the building permit going to
the contractor, the city's portion of that fee goes down. So, the con side of things is that
the General Fund, specifically the Development Services portion of the General Fund, is
impacted and would have to be subsidized to offset the change in expense. Also, the
con is contrary to the city's philosophy of development paying for itself. It's always been
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 65 of 77
the city's philosophy that development should pay for itself and it should not fall on the
taxpayers. So, when we did an analysis of this option we wanted to find out, you know,
on an annual basis what -- what kind of an impact would that kind of a proposal have
and we anticipate that the annual projected expense to the city, specifically the
Development Services fund, would be about 86,368 dollars, based on the -- the
proposals from the four out of the five contracts -- contract holders. Again, option one.
Option two is kind of the converse of what I just talked about and that is to adjust the
permit fees and leave the contract percentages as they are. The pros and cons -- pro is
General Fund is not impacted specifically, again, the Development Services portion of it
it, as the cost -- the cost is the responsibility of the building community. It would be
borne by the building community. Pro is also in alignment with the city's philosophy of
development paying for itself. The con is that the building community is impacted. In a
down economy we know that it's not going to be a popular -- popular proposal. So, we
tried to do some analysis on this and we spoke with our Finance Department and we
don't have -- we don't have every individual permit fee nailed down, but we do have
some estimates of what we figure the anticipated impact would be. Anticipated permit
fee increase to the building community and what we did is we took that 650,000 dollar
value commercial permit that Brent spoke of earlier, we applied the -- the proposals to it
and we -- we are estimating that it would be -- impact the commercial guy building that
650,000 dollar value building in the neighborhood of 4,500 to 5,000 dollars additional
fees on that permit. In the residential, again, for that 2,200 square foot home, we
anticipate that it would increase the cost of permitting to that guy two to three hundred
dollars. There is a third option and that is the do nothing option. In that option basically
the pro is no General Fund impact and no permit fee increase to the building
community. The con is that there is discord among the existing PSA contractors where
they may no longer wish to stay in a relationship with the City of Meridian, because of
the increased costs that they have incurred. The other con that we see is that our
contractor -- or our contracts are set to expire on June 30th, 2011, without any
automatic extension or renewal.
De Weerd: You mean September.
Freckleton: I'm sorry. What did I say?
De Weerd: Thought, well, they already expired.
Freckleton: Did I say June? Well, I'm sorry. On a roll. So, with that, again, Ijust -- you
know, talking about the benefits and the value to the organization of having these
relationships, we find a great value in that. Our contractors have asked us to bring
these proposals forward and, you know, as part of our negotiations we wanted to have
these discussions with you guys and find out -- and get your guidance as to how -- how
you would like us to move forward. We have been sensitive to the economic pressures
over the past few years, you know, we have -- we have certainly had internal
discussions about fees and wanting to broach that subject and with the economic
conditions what they are we have held those off. There have been -- there have been
regulatory policy changes that have necessitated a significant increase in the workload,
Meridian Cily Council
August 23, 2011
Page 66 of 77
specifically for the mechanical and structural guys. There specifically were some new
requirements that came down from the Department of Energy that increased the energy
efficiency standards of new single family homes. It about doubled the workload for the
mechanical guys. Every new heating and cooling system that's put into a residential
home has to be engineered now and because of that we have to do -- we have to
scrutinize that engineering to make sure that it meets the standards. Again, the
professional services agreement holders have stated to us that there -- they may not be
interested in furthering their relationships with the city without some serious
consideration of their proposals. So, again, we are not -- we are before you to negotiate
contracts, certainly, and we are going to be doing that back in the office and bring those
contracts forward to you, but we did want to get some guidance and direction from you
as to how you're feeling about those key points and give us some direction. So, with
that I will stand for any questions you might have and we will certainly make available
our contractors, too.
De Weerd: You know, Bruce, I will just kind of -- I don't know what Council's thoughts
are. We didn't have any of this information in our packets, so it's hard to ask what our
thoughts are when you haven't even seen it to even start thinking about it. So, this is all
brand new and a lot of times you don't want to say the first thing that comes to your
mind. And, you know, I think it needs to be absorbed and there probably needs to be a
greater understanding of what some of that workload adjustment is. I do know as the
code changes have come in front of City Council, this has been mentioned about
probably an impact on inspections and that sort of thing and we probably need to have
a better understanding of what some of those time commitments are as well. So, I
guess I would ask Council what your thoughts are, but I feel a little bit disadvantaged
being asked what you think when you're just now hearing it and I'm just a processor, so
Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yeah. MR. Bird.
Bird: I asked Bruce this exact question as -- but he wants -- I hate to get too involved in
it, because you are in negotiations. I have got a couple of questions. How long has it
been since we went out for RFPs for these contracts?
Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, Members of the Council, I -- as long as I
have been here we have not done an RFP. So, that's 19 years.
Bird: And, you know, being managers of city money, whether it's developer's money or
it's our money, that's not too prudent to be -- not having RFPs and checking every once
in awhile. At this time Ithink -- I think you look at the fees and you can find out why
Meridian is the number one permit seller for the last two years in Ada County and
Caldwell is the number one in Canyon county, because we have kept our fees down.
You can't -- you can't keep putting costs on these builders and I realize these guys need
to make a living, too, don't get me wrong, but when they were booming I didn't see them
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 67 of 77
coming in offering to give it back to us. We have all had to tighten our belts. There is
nobody out in the industry that hasn't had to tighten their belts and when you're in this
kind of work, in contracting work, you have the hot years and save for the bad years.
So, while it's up to you guys to negotiate, I'm like Tammy -- I don't -- or the Mayor. I'm
sorry, Tam. It -- I would like to have been, you know, a little more, Bruce, in talking to
you, I understand and I don't want to tie your hands in negotiation, but I certainly want to
-- we have got to have something done and I think we have need to really look at getting
us some RFPs out, I know we can't do it this year, but I think it would be prudent to --
public money to do that on an every three or four year basis. We do it with every other
contractor. That's my best word.
Rountree: Madam Mayor. That was the thought I had and nothing against the
contractors, but our -- my experience is anytime you go out for professional services,
unless you can document the sole source, you need to go out with an RFP to see if
there is other people interested. You're not bid shopping, you're just saying, okay, are
other people interested and here is what we want, can you provide it and you evaluate
them accordingly. Obviously, the folks we have are going to come to the top, because
they know us and we know them and they know our system, so, you know, it makes the
playing field a little more equitable to them. But I'm confused why we have done it this
way. Having said that, I have no other thoughts about what to do with the -- I look at the
numbers and I'm thinking, yeah, we are in the right spot and most of those we should be
no higher than third place in any of those, since we are the third largest city in the state.
I don't -- I don't know what new requirement there are. You say the heating and HVAC
systems all have to be engineered. I assume they come with an engineer's stamp. If
we are looking at them and making changes to those, we are breaking the law. And I'm
sorry, there is just some of that stuff that doesn't make sense to me. So, those are the
thoughts that I have right now, so that's where I am. If you're at a state of negotiation,
probably you're going to have to get us educated.
De Weerd: And I guess, again, I prefaced it by when you ask for first thoughts beware
of what you get. Because we have no context to even look at -- all we saw was the
comparison. We don't know much more than that. And I think that probably we need to
get the information and Ihave -- I have told our inspectors this before, you in many
regards are the face of our community and you are also -- have everything to do with
the long term health of our community in how you conduct your inspections and that's --
that's critical to our community. You are very important to the City of Meridian and I
think that the City of Meridian has -- and I hope you feel you have benefited from our
relationship. Because of the economy we haven't had to do many of the things that
other communities have had to do because of our relationships with you. So, I see this
as -- as I hope a win-win partnership. I understand that you need to make your
business model work and so do we, but to have this discussion, we have to have more
context on what we are even talking about and so I hope, you know, between now and
maybe September 6 when the next City Council meeting is or at least the workshop, we
can have this kind of a dialogue -- and maybe if Council you can make suggestions on
what kind of information you need in terms of this and you need to talk with our
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 68 of 77
contractors on some of their comfort levels, but maybe in meeting with legal and the
RFP process and what is legally required, some -- right now it's just all new.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I think the workshop's the appropriate place. I mean we can
sit down and roll up our sleeves and get through this.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: First let me say I appreciate the long-standing relationship and I do agree
that, you know, institutional memory is a good thing and that's important. For our
discussion at the workshop, if that's where it's going to be, there -- there are a couple of
facts I would like to be refreshed on. I think one of them is does this kind of a contract
meet the requirement where if it's over 25,000 dollars in a year we do have to put it out
for bid and the other is if -- if the end result is to raise fees, do we have to have a public
hearing on any fee that raises more five percent? These are things we need to include
in our thinking.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I can answer the one on the fees.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: And, yes, you need to -- if we are going to increase it more than the five
percent, you have to have a public hearing.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, these types of professional agreements
are not required to be bid.
Zaremba: Oh.
Nary: So, then, the bidding issue isn't an issue. It can be bid. It's not required to be
bid. And the Mayor is correct, because of the way the formula works, I would
recommend that we -- if we are anywhere close to a five percent of an increase to
what's being paid to the contractor, that we still put that out through the normal process
of increasing fees, because, again, they were getting paid a percentage, so realistically
it's not as easy to calculate as on our normal fee structure. But anything close I would
recommend that we simply put it out as a fee increase, like any other fee, so the public
is aware of it.
De Weerd: Well -- and typically, Bruce, you go through certain steps with your fee
processes, you have groups you go to. This is not a quick and -- this is in no way a
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 69 of 77
quick process anyway you cut it, so -- I just wanted to make one more comment to our
contractors. Bruce had mentioned the satisfaction surveys. I appreciate the feedback
that we get back. Again, you're not only the long-term health and you are the face of
Meridian in many regards, but those surveys speak volumes. So, I would like to extend
my heartfelt appreciation to the feedback and the ambassadors that you are for the city.
Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Just a comment. The context issue would be helpful, because from
the perspective we are like everyone else, we know gas costs have gone up, we know
insurance costs have gone up, there are factors that we don't control out there that we
are all impacted by, whether you're an individual or household or a business and you
have to look at those. At the same time we have to look, okay, how do we mitigate
those, where can we cut back, sometimes the code is the code, there is nothing we can
do and other times there are things that we can find different ways of doing things. Like
to -- I always explore that. And input from the people who are out there doing it every
day is always helpful. So, I just think we have to take a look at -- at each one and
knowing -- learning that, you know, mechanical requirements may be going up or have
gone up, there is more work that has to be done than there has been in the past, it's just
a matter of learning what those things are and educating us on those factors and --and
we know about the general things that go up in price, but how --how we could do things
differently, maybe, to help mitigate that is always useful, so it's just a matter of having to
take a look at it and getting us up to speed and those functions. So, I'd like to say that
my other job that I know a lot about everything. My knowledge base is a mile wide, but
it's only an inch deep, so --
Freckleton: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I do appreciate your
comments tonight and I certainly wasn't intending to blind side you. We -- as I
mentioned, we -- we didn't intend to have a negotiation of contracts in front of you. We
have -- we have set ourselves a calendar and we have got a pretty fast track to October
1st and as we have been going through our -- our negotiation process there has just
been these -- these two real critical points that have come up and that is adjust
percentages, adjust permit fees, and that was really kind of the issue that I kind of
wanted to get clarification on and specifically by adjusting those percentages and those
contracts it breaks away from the city's philosophy of development paying for itself and
kind of gets sideways with that. So, kind of wanted to take your temperature on that.
We do certainly plan on bringing back a lot more information to you. I apologize that we
didn't get something in your packets for you to review ahead of time. Again, I -- we
were kind of on a fast track and these were a couple of points that were kind of critical
for us moving forward with our negotiation process. So, apologize for putting you into
kind of an uncomfortable position with that, but we will definitely go back to the drawing
board and -- and gather the information. We will be back in front of you at -- we have --
in our calendar we have got two more times that we are going see you before -- before
the end of September and certainly the public hearing process for fees would have to
be, you know, advertised and we will go through that. We have been working directly
with the legal department, so we have got it laid out, but, again, we are sorry for kind of
blind siding you a little bit tonight.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 70 of 77
De Weerd: Well -- and I will admit you -- I will admit you did put us in an awkward
situation. I would like to offer -- is there any comment from -- you guys sat through our
whole meeting as well and so do any of you have any comments you would like to make
at this time? Thank you for being here.
Medley: Again, Terry Medley with -- mechanical inspector. And just with Councilman
Bird's comments, when things were better I had four full-time employees. We have had
to make some significant adjustments because of the economy. So, now we are down
to one and a half. Well, one guy is working either three days a week or four days a
week and so we have made some serious adjustments because of the economy and
now with mechanical, of course, you need more information on that, but our workload
has doubled and so I have been working nights and weekends on plan review to keep
up and that's -- and I need to hire another full time inspector and so I'm in a position
where my family needs me back in the evenings and they need me back on the
weekends. So, that's why I have made this request and pretty firm with it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Terry. And, again, I think we need to be able to put it in
perspective and to get some of those key points. Your -- your industries -- and, you
know, we have seen it across the valley and certainly in this community we know how
hard construction has been hit and, you know, I think everyone across the board in the
construction industry has been tightening those belts and reinventing themselves to
even stay afloat. So, I can understand the position you're finding yourself in and, again,
we just need to have a better understanding of what -- what is in front of us.
Medley: And the one comment about the engineering, that was a little bit overstated.
The engineering is done by a computer software program, so any heating company out
there can do -- can purchase the software program and they can engineer it -- it's
basically a computer engineered submittal that is -- that is put forth on each plan, but
any heating company can purchase that. It's been a mess. It has been a tremendous
mess to have these people purchase the software program. Myself, I had to go to a
couple of training seminars and, then, also a 12 week -- it was just one day a week, I
don't want to be deceptive on that, but a 12 week one day a week course from the
College of Western Idaho to learn how to work this program. So, then, I have had to
train a lot of heating and air conditioning contractors, I have come under a little bit of
scrutiny on that, why are you training these contractors. If I haven't -- if I don't train
them they are dead meat and they can't get their submittals, they can't figure them out,
they can't get them through. So, I have babysat some of them and there has been
significant improvement since January 1st, but it's been quite --quite an ordeal.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments? You know -- and just in -- oh, please do.
I would encourage you to work with -- with staff and get the appropriate information in
from of Council, too. Thank you for being here.
Holty: You're welcome. Dennis Holty. 1116 Dawn Drive. DMH Enterprises. I just
wanted to briefly say that the reason I recommend the changes in the permit fees, they
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 71 of 77
are the same fees that Meridian adopted 20 years ago and those fees were taken from
the state fees that had been in place for ten or 20 years before that. These fees are
very low. And we get by, you know, we are creative, we get by and we -- we do okay.
We are not going anywhere unless we have to. But the fees are way behind. A 30
dollar minimum fee in today's world for a service call is pretty low and as far as the other
side of the contract adjustment, that is to do with the busier it gets I end up having to
hire somebody to help and the contract is set up on a sliding scale, it goes down
according to how much volume we do. I'm asking to keep it level according to the
volume we do, because as it gets busier I need to hire somebody and that's all we are
coming from. We are not trying to -- any increase in fees is going to go to the city.
That's all I have to say. Hopefully that clears it up.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Just a quick question on that.
Holty: Oh.
Hoaglun: That sliding scale, is that something where it's a stair step -- if you're doing
this many it's at this level or is it more a sliding straight slope?
Holty: It's a percentage on a certain dollar amount and, then, it drops down ten percent
for a certain dollar amount and the situation I run into is about the time it drops down is
about the time I need to hire somebody to help, because it's busier. So, the revenue
goes down and the expenses go up. That's what the contract renewal is addressing.
The fees are an accepted situation. That's -- anyway.
Hoaglun: Okay. Okay. That helps. Thank you.
Holty: You're welcome.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bjornson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have one quick question. Given
the September 30th expiration date, do you feel it's appropriate to bring to a workshop
administrative contract extension discussion?
Rountree: That would be --
Bird: I do, Mayor.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bjornson: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further on this?
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 72 of 77
Freckleton: No. Thank you. Thank you for your time, Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, and we'll be back in front of you with a lot more information and you will have it
ahead of time.
De Weerd: That would be excellent.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Especially if you want a better mind frame up here. Mr. Zaremba
Zaremba: I was just going to suggest since there is this deadline with no renewal or
extension, whether the short-term discussion might be -- can we continue the same
contract for two more months while we work this out, so -- just throw it in as a
suggestion. Not that we want to keep delaying it, we are going to have to make the
decision and get it done pretty quick, but -- if it looks like we are moving forward and
going to have a meeting of the minds, maybe that's a suggestion.
De Weerd: Or at least bring something for discussion. Okay. Okay. Thank you
C. Clerk's Office: Approval of New Beer and Wine License for
Wood-Wood Inc., dba Beef O'Bradys Located at 1505 S. Eagle
Rd. #190
De Weerd: Item 9-C is through our clerk's office and --
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the typical beer, wine, and
liquor license you will see us take off the Consent Agenda and put on the regular
agenda, because we need it approved with conditions and this one is to basically allow
the Mayor to sign and me to hold my signature until they get their certificate of
occupancy. I spoke to Mr. Freckleton and he said they are just pulling permits on this
right now, so they are a little ways out from getting that certificate of occupancy, it just
seems they must be more on the ball than our average person, because they are
getting this taken care of way ahead of time. So, that's what I'm requesting.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Don't they have a time limit before they have to start hanging it or are they going
to have the building occupied by the time the -- I think it's six months -- don't you have
six months to get it hung?
De Weerd: I think so. To put it in use
Bird: Well, to hang it.
Meridian City Council
Augusl 23, 2011
Page 73 of 77
Nary: Correct.
De Weerd: To serve your first drink.
Bird: Yeah.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Nary: It's actually 150 days and, then, they have a 90 day extension period, but I mean
this is a tenant improvement, not a brand new building.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Nary: So, this is where the Grains of Montana used to be and so it's a tenant
improvement, so it probably won't take six months to do, but --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Would that -- if there are no more comments, I'd move that we approve the new
beer and wine license for Wood-Wood, Incorporated, doing business as Beef O'Brady's
and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to hold until a certificate of occupancy is
attained.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-C. Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Ordinances
A. First Reading of Ordinance No. 11-1488: An Ordinance
Amending Meridian City Code Section 3-5-2~A), Regarding
Pawnbrokers Dealing Precious Metals; Amending Section 3-5-
9(B)(4), Regarding Pawnbroker Records; Adding a New
Chapter, Chapter 9 to Title 3, Meridian City Code, Regarding
Precious Metal Dealers; Providing a Severability Clause; and
Providing an Effective Date
De Weerd: And I guess along with our appreciation for being so on top of it, so --
under Item 10, Ordinances, Madam Clerk, will you, please, read Item 10-A, which is
ordinance number 11-1488 by title only. And this would be for the first reading.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 74 of 77
Holman: City of Meridian Ordinance No. 11-1488, first reading. An ordinance
amending Meridian City Code Section 3-5-2A regarding pawn brokers dealing in
precious metals. Amending Meridian City Code, Section 3-5-9B4 regarding pawn
broker records and a new chapter, Chapter 9, to Title 3, Meridian City Code, regarding
precious metal dealers, definitions, applicability, and exemption, license required,
application and procedures, operating requirements for regulated transactions involving
type one precious metal. Operating requirements for regulated transactions involving
type two precious metal, prohibited acts by precious metal dealers, penalties and
enforcement, providing a severability clause and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there anyone who
would like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none, we will move to the next item.
Item 10-B, which is ordinance number 11-1489, Madam Clerk, will you, please, read this
by title only.
B. Ordinance No. 11-1489: An Ordinance Amending Title 1,
Chapter 7, Section, Paragraph (A) (2) of the Meridian City
Code, Regarding Time of City Council Workshop
Holman: City of Meridian Ordinance No. 11-1489, an ordinance amending Title 1,
Chapter 7, Section 5, Paragraph A-2 of the Meridian City Code regarding time of the
City Council workshop and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title only. If there is no one who
would like hear it read in its entirety, Council, I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Major?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinance No. 11-1489 with suspension of rules.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10-B. Madam Clerk, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Ordinance No. 11-1490: An Ordinance Amending Ordinance
No. 10-1456, the Appropriation Ordinance for the Fiscal Year
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 75 of 77
Beginning October 1, 2010 and Ending September 30, 2011
Appropriating Monies That are to be Received by the City of
Meridian in the Sum of $2,337,252.00 and Allocating
Expenditures
De Weerd: Item 10-C is Ordinance 11-1490. Madam Clerk, will you, please, read it by
title only.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 11-1490, an
ordinance of the City of Meridian, Idaho, amending Ordinance No. 10-1456, the
appropriation ordinance for the fiscal year beginning October 1st, 2010, and ending
September 30th, 2011. Appropriating monies that are to be received by the City of
Meridian, Idaho, in the sum of 2,337,252 dollars and allocating expenditures and
providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title. If there is no one who would
like it heard -- heard it read in its entirety, Council, I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinance No. 11-1490 with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10-C. Madam Clerk, will
you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Ordinance No. 11-1491: An Ordinance Providing for the
Adoption of a Budget and the Appropriation of $67,136,453.00
to Defray the Necessary Expenses and Liabilities of the City of
Meridian, for the Fiscal Year Beginning October 1, 2011 and
Ending on September 30, 2012
De Weerd: Item 10-D is Ordinance No. 11-1491. Madam Clerk, will you, please, read
this ordinance by title.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 11-1491, an
ordinance pursuant to Idaho Code 50-1002 and 50-1003, providing for a title and
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 76 of 77
findings, providing for the adoption of a budget and the appropriation of 67,136,453
dollars to defray the necessary expenses and liabilities of the City of Meridian in
accordance with the object and purposes and in certain amounts herein specified for the
fiscal year beginning October 1st, 2011, ending on September 30th, 2012. To levy all
such appropriate taxes and levies as authorized by law upon taxable property and to
collect all authorized revenue, to provide for the waiving of the second and third
readings pursuant to Idaho Code 50-902 and providing for an effective date and the
filing of a certified copy of this ordinance with the Secretary of State.
De Weerd: You have heard this read in its -- Ordinance 11-1491 by title. If there is no
one who would like it heard -- it read -- that's easy for me to say. No, it's not. Council, I
would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinance No. 11-1491, with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk, roll
call, please.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: We are at Item 11. Council, is there any items to consider for future
agendas? Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Hoaglun: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:53 P.M.
Meridian City Council
August 23, 2011
Page 77 of 77
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR T MY De WEERD DATE APPROVED
~1,
k~ ww,y ~ ta',$ '., ry' ~
..
•``~` 6' ~~ ~~ : ,~, 'tea Af ` ~ `~ ~ ~''""
~i
~ +~± ~~ S~~J ~
~ ~~~%~ r'
YCEE HOL A CITY CLERK
~~A
,~~ ~.
w ~` .. r~. ~ ..,
.r ~%~ F ~,...
„, ;•~ ° ~~
w ~ 1
r ~<„.~
~ d ,`"~
.r ~,~ ~r y y;`a
.~ "~d
~~ ~~ '4f'V~~ e~~ +Q ~ +: ~5 M p s hap RSA
!e ~ J '^a
! s ~~;. ~'w~"1
,y, .r d
;ti `.
r~s d, f''~a r 4 r`n~yi,` `°•
J~~, ~; ~,,~ ~~ ~ ~ _,
~ . ; ~.
~!'f)~~~r,~, ~,~i,,`,~