2010 11-16Meridian City Council Meeting November 16 2010
A Council meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:05 p.m.,
Tuesday, November 16, 2010, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, President David Zaremba, Charlie
Rountree, Brad Hoaglun and Keith Bird.
Others Present: Jaycee Holman, Bill Nary, Pete Friedman, Steve Siddoway, Joe Silva,
Tracy Basterrechea, Warren Stewart, Scott and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Brad Hoaglun
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
de Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for joining us. For the record it is Tuesday,
November 16th. It is a few minutes after 7:00. We will start tonight's meeting with roll
call attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
de Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Stephanie Moore with Ten Mile Christian
Church
de Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Stephanie
Moore with the Ten Mile Christian Church. I invite you to join us in the community
invocation or take this as a moment of reflection. Thank you for being here.
Moore: God, we thank you for this evening and you are concerned with items great and
small in importance on the scale of political significance, but important to all of us and
so I ask that this evening as every item on the agenda is addressed that you would be
with the leaders and members of the community to guide us and to remind us of our
importance individually in making this community a place where we want to live. We
ask for your continued guidance tonight in Jesus' name we pray, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
de Weerd: Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda
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Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: We have a resolution number we need to add on here and move an item
around. But under Department Reports, 8-B, that resolution is number 10-755. And
also under Department Reports we would like to flip Items C and D, move Item D, the
Public Works Department discussion after B and, then, slide C down. Public Works is a
short discussion and, then, we can follow up with the Borup property park concepts.
So, with those, Madam Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda.
Rountree: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda.
A. Approve Minutes of November 3, 2010 City Council Meeting
B. Acceptance Agreement: Display of Artwork in Initial Point
Gallery, Meridian City Hall between the City of Meridian and
Cherry Woodbury
C. Temporary License Agreement Between Ada County Highway
District & the City of Meridian for Fothergill Pathway Extension
Project
D. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 10-002
for Barletta Subdivision by Russell & Karen Hunemiler Located
at 3299 W. Davis Lane Request: Annexation and Zoning
Approval of 5.94 Acres with an R-2 Zoning District
E. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 10-002
for Barletta Subdivision by Russell and Karen Hunemiller
Located at 3299 W. Davis Lane Request: Preliminary Plat
Approval of 2 Building Lots and 2 Common /Other Lots on
5.94 Acres
F. Final Order for Approval: TE 10-025 Normandy Subdivision by
James Patterson Located at 4145 S. Locust Grove Road
Request: Two (2) year Time Extension to Obtain the City
Engineer's Signature on the Final Plat
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G. Final Order for Approval: TE 10-026 Blackstone No. 2 by
Landmark Engineering and Planning, Inc. Located at 4700 W.
Aspen Creek Street Request: Approval of a 24-Month Time
Extension to Obtain the City Engineer's Signature on the Final
Plat
de Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: There are no changes to the Consent Agenda and with that I move approval
of tonight's Consent Agenda with the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 5. If there is no discussion
from Council, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Items Moved From Consent Agenda.
de Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 7: Action Items
A. MFP 10-004 Woodland Springs Subdivision by Ada County
Highway District (ACRD) Located off of the Northeast Corner
of E. McMillan Road and N. Locust Grove Road on the North
Side of McMillan Road Request: Modification to the Approved
Final Plat to Allow for the Removal and Re-Planting of 6 Trees
from the Site to ACRD Right-of-Way within a Planter Along E.
McMillan Road
de Weerd: So, we will move to Item 7 under Action Items. Our first item is MFP 10-
004.
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The request before you
tonight is for a modification to the final plat for the Woodland Springs Subdivision. It's
located at the corner of McMillan and Locust Grove Roads. When we approved the
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final plat and ultimately development began, consistent with our code there was a
requirement for a landscape buffer along both McMillan and Locust Grove Roads.
Since that time and since final plat was approved, part of the improvements to the
intersection are going to require the relocation of the Lemp Canal from the south side to
the north side of McMillan. Originally we thought there had been enough room for the
irrigation easement to accommodate our standard landscape buffer. As ACRD got into
their discussions and construction drawing with the irrigation district, it turned out that
the irrigation district was, in fact, requiring a larger easement than was originally
anticipated, so that causes it to move into the actual platted area and so what the
district has requested is that the trees that were to be placed in the landscape buffer
that you see on the right there -- or that are shown on the left, which would be
consistent with our code that are being placed in an easement on private property, be
actually relocated to be in the right of way and located between the detached sidewalk
and the curb line, because the irrigation district doesn't allow trees within their
easements and so since the landscape plan was approved as part of the final plat, the
district is requesting the modification to the final plat to amend that landscape plan and
they will be installing the trees as part of the project.
de Weerd: Thank you, Pete. Council, any questions for staff?
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Okay. Just in looking at the six trees that are proposed to be relocated, they
are in a line of originally ten trees. Wouldn't it make sense to move all ten?
Friedman: Thank you, Council Member Zaremba. I believe that the others are going to
be moved, they just didn't include it in this request. Actually, the six that are shown
there aren't there right now, they will be planted. Gary Inselman from the highway
district is here. I believe that the other trees are going to have to be moved, too. That
was my question. I thought, well, if we can't have six trees in the easement, how can
we have the other four? So, we will have to negotiate with the irrigation district on that.
Zaremba: Actually, I was just looking esthetically. Aline of trees, as opposed to two
lines of trees.
Friedman: That would make sense, too.
de Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for staff at this point? Gary, do you want to
provide any comment? Okay. The applicant? No?
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council, the highway district is the applicant in this case.
de Weerd: Oh, the highway district is the applicant.
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Friedman: Yeah.
de Weerd: And you, apparently, spoke very well on their behalf. Mr. Zaremba, did you
want to ask that question, though?
Zaremba: I would if Gary would care to comment. I guess if those four trees that I'm
looking at are already planted --
Friedman: Which they --
Zaremba: -- I probably wouldn't say move them. I just thought maybe all ten were not
planted yet.
Friedman: No. The four that -- I believe the four that you referred to are already in
existence on the Maverick lot. Actually, right now what exists on that lot to the east
where the six trees are shown, they are actually not there yet, it is just sod at this point,
because that lot's undeveloped.
Zaremba: Probably wouldn't ask to move them, but I'd still like Gary's opinion.
de Weerd: He just covered your testimony again for you.
Zaremba: Thank you, Gary. We always appreciate you being here. I'm done.
de Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Okay. Council, staff is seeking your
decision on this item.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve MPF 10-004.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-A. Is there any discussion
from Council? Seeing none, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. FP 10-008 Paramount Subdivision No. 17 by Brighton
Corporation Located South of Chinden Boulevard and West of
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Meridian Road Request: Final Plat Approval for 28 Single-
Family Building Lots on 7.41 Acres in an R-8 Zoning District
de Weerd: Item 7-B is final plat 10-008. I will ask for staff comments
Friedman: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Member of the Council. This is a request by
Brighton Corporation for a division 17 of the Paramount Subdivision, final plat approval
of 28 lots on 7.41 acres. Staff has found it to be in substantial conformance with the
approved preliminary plat and recommends Council's approval of this final plat.
de Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Does the applicant have any comments? Thank you, Mike. No? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the final plat 10-008, Paramount Subdivision No. 17.
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-B. If there is no discussion
from Council, Madam Clerk, roll call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: Mayor's Youth Advisory Council (MYAC)
Update
de Weerd: Under Item 8-A is the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council update and so I will
ask you to come forward.
Douglas: Good evening. My name is Carson Douglas and I go to Rocky Mountain High
School and I serve as the communications officer on the executive board for the
Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. Some of the events that we have been active in lately
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have been Rake Up Meridian, which actually happened this past Saturday and we had
a really big turn out. There was about 25 people and we had a really good time and we
actually had the Rocky Mountain Student Council join us in that, so it was -- it was really
fun. Also some of our members were able to attend the American Lung Association and
to their STAND Convention, which is Supporting Teens Against Nicotine Dependency
and that was actually created last year by members from MYAC, so that was pretty cool
for them to be at that convention this year. One of the activities that we have coming up
is put on by our Teen Activities Committee and that is ice skating at the Idaho Ice World
this Saturday and it's free for all teens who want to come. Also our community
involvement committee was able to select the Meridian Senior Center as the beneficiary
of our annual fundraiser and so that will be really exciting to get going with and get more
involved with and on that note, members of the youth council are getting to -- are going
to volunteer at the senior center over the holiday break. Other than that, that's really all
that we have planned for right now, but we are excited to get going on those things. Do
you guys have any questions for me?
Rountree: I have none.
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none. Nice report.
Douglas: Well, on behalf of all of MYAC we would like to thank you for all that you do
and for allowing us to serve in our community.
B. Mayor's Office: Resolution No: 10-755 A Resolution of the
Mayor and the City Council of the City of Meridian, Appointing
Ashley Brown to Historical Preservation Commission
de Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 8-B under the Mayor's office, you have in front of
you resolution number 10-755. It is to appoint Ashley Brown, which would be our youth
member on the historical preservation commission. So, Council, you do have
information about Ashley in front of you. She is very excited to participate at -- on the
commission level, has a real interest in historic preservation and being a part of that
commission. If you have any questions I would entertain those right now. If not, I would
appreciate approval of this -- or confirmation of this appointment.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve resolution 10-755.
Hoaglun: Second.
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de Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the appointment of Ashley Brown
to the historical preservation commission. If there is no discussion, Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Works Department: Rescind the Previous Approval of
the License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District
(NMID) to Cross the Kennedy Lateral from the November Stn,
2010 City Council Meeting; AND to Approve the License
Agreement with NMID to Cross the Five Mile and Nine Mile
Drains as Part of the Ten Mile Rd -Cherry Ln to Ustick Rd
Project
de Weerd: Now, for those of you who have been to a City Council meeting, I'm sure
you saw your item as one of the last on the agenda and thought, oh, my gosh; we are
going to be here forever. We are not there yet, but that's pressure on you, Stewart, to
keep it really short. Or Warren.
Stewart: You're fine.
de Weerd: I'm great with names tonight. It's because I don't have my glasses on. I'm
disoriented. Okay. We are looking at Item D that is now Item C and I will turn it over to
you.
Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, last week you approved a license
agreement with Nampa-Merdian Irrigation District. The license agreement that was
attached to the paperwork that you had was for two crossings, one on the Five Mile and
the Nine Mile Drains, and it was for the Cherry Lane to Ustick re-use pipe project that's
coming up. However, we have another project that's ongoing at the current time, which
is also the Victory Road trunk line project. We had been preparing both license
agreements and both memos at the same time and we inadvertently got the wrong
memo with the right license agreement. So, what we are asking you to do tonight is to
rescind the approval of the license agreement which you did last week, because it was
the wrong title that was approved and to approve the license agreement for the Ten Mile
project with the right memo, so that the wording is correct and at a future date we will
bring the license agreement for the Victory Road trunk sewer extension, along with the
correct memo, before you. So, we need to rescind the one last week, because the title
was incorrect for the license agreement that was brought before you and, then, actually
approve the right one -- or the title of the right one. So, hopefully, that made some
sense.
de Weerd: Okay. Questions from Council?
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Zaremba: It does make sense to me, but is there any way to annotate in last week's
minutes that something changed?
de Weerd: I believe it was stated on the record that -- to rescind, wasn't it?
Stewart: No.
Holman: Madam Mayor, I wasn't here last week, so I'm not sure.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what happened is your -- and Warren or
Stewart can correct me, but Ithink --Ithink --
de Weerd: Well, we will say it's Warren Stewart.
Nary: Ithink the title that was on your agenda was correct. The license agreement that
you approved that was signed was incorrect. So, what you're doing is rescinding your
approval of that and correcting it this week with the correct license agreement.
Stewart: That's almost right. The actual license agreement that was attached was the
correct license agreement. The Council memo, which had the action that you approved,
that was incorrect. So, the action that you actually formally spoke was for -- not for the
license agreement that was attached, so --
Zaremba: I'm just making sure that if somebody read last week's minutes and doesn't
read this week's minutes, they would know what the right documents were.
Holman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Zaremba, I probably
wouldn't actually amend the minutes, but what we will do is put a permanent note in that
minute book, so if anybody ever goes back to that item in the future or ten years down
the road for whatever reason, it can -- we can put a note in the minute book and in the
permanent record, so --
de Weerd: So, a note referring them to the minutes of this meeting?
Holman: Correct.
de Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Thank you.
de Weerd: Any additional comments from Mr. Nary?
Nary: No.
de Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion on this? I do need a motion.
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Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: I don't need a motion. I do.
Zaremba: Yeah. We voted last week. Madam Mayor, I move we approve Item D.
Hoaglun: Second.
de Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Discussion, Council? Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Parks Department: Borup Property Park Concepts Plan
Presentation, Discussion, and Public Comment
de Weerd: Okay. Council, we are at 7 -- or 8-C -- or now it's 8-D on part of our agenda,
which is the parks department. I will turn this over to Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a second, I will try to get this correct.
Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, apologize for my voice. Fighting a cold. I'll try
and speak as little as possible, see if you can keep up momentum. We are here tonight
to discuss the Borup property concept plan. This effort was started a couple years ago
and, then, put on hold, primarily for the reason of the Highway 16 extension that was
being considered at the time by ITD was down McDermott Road that had an alternative
that went right through the park site and we didn't want to put time into doing a concept
plan for a park that could become a highway. However, that question was resolved last
winter with the preferred alternative of ITD moving to the west side of McDermott Road
and, then, also this spring a couple of additional items facilitated the desire to move this
forward again. First of all, we began working in earnest with the Lion's Club for their
Conditional Use Permit, which was approved this fall for additional use other than the
one time a year for the -- thank you -- for the -- their rodeo uses at the -- on the grounds
at the Borup property. Second, we had several issues related to ball field space come
up this spring with the growth in our leagues and we know that we need to start
planning for future ball fields as well. And, then, the third were the efforts of the dog
park task force. As you know, this time last year we had to close off some days and
hours at the Meridian Bark Park next to the police department and they began looking in
earnest for additional altemative dog park sites and this was identified as a site that we
wanted to pursue. As part of this effort there has been a huge amount of public
involvement. In fact, the open house that was held this summer had over 60 people in
attendance, one of the largest attendances we have had at an open house. Some
comparison. The Five Mile Creek pathway open house that was also held that same
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month and had invitations to all the surrounding property owners, only had about three
people show up for that one, but this one has been very well attended and a lot of
passionate thoughts about the future of this site. You will see the options tonight that
include the rodeo grounds as an expanded use. Show softball as a tournament
complex. And you will also see that a future dog park is shown on all three of the
concepts that were explored. The reason why the dog park shows up on all three is that
we wanted to make sure that it would fit under each scenario, because the last thing we
wanted to do would be to build a dog park one way now and, then, have to go back and
reduce its size in the future for other amenities. So, in your packet tonight all the
Council members should have received a copy of the Borup property concepts plan
bound. In that plan are chapters addressing concept development, programming, and
implementation and answering questions related to those. There is also a very large
appendix, which is the bulk of the document showing early concept plans. The notes
from the public outreach and, then, background material from meetings, such as our
meetings with Williams pipeline and Public Works. So, here to present an overview of
that plan to you tonight is Susan Graham from Parametrics. They have been working
with us as consultants and you will recognize Susan as also working with us as the lead
project manager on the Kleiner Park project. After Susan speaks, Creg Steele, the
chairman of the parks and rec commission, will address you with the recommendations
of the parks and recreation commission. After that we will open it for additional
testimony. We have presentations planned from a neighbor Mrs. Dawn Anderson, as
well as the dog park task force and, then, other members of the general public. So, with
that I will stand for any questions and we can start the presentation.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Siddoway. Any questions for our parks director at
this point?
Rountree: I have none right now.
de Weerd: Okay. Susan.
Graham: Thanks for having me here. Good to see you all again, Madam Mayor and
Council Members. Susan Graham with Parametrics, 7761 West Riverside. And, Steve,
are you going to advance the slides for me?
Siddoway: I can. You bet.
Graham: Okay. So, I'm going to try to be brief, because I know there is lots of folks
here that want to speak and I will just stick to the quick overview and, then, hopefully,
answer questions that you may have. The concept development, unlike the materials
that we prepared for Kleiner Park, were very brief, very high level document to look at a
variety of scenarios that could occur on this property and so we are -- the primary
purpose was to not do anything in the short run that would preclude longer term
improvements as funding became available. So, the concept development part of the
document included a history of the property, the goals of the park, the various site
constraints, the design concepts, stakeholder coordination and next steps. So, in terms
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of programming, Steve mentioned the elements that we were looking at and we -- we
have every scenario, both -- all three concepts, A, B and C, including the dog park and,
then, we looked at a variety of different alternatives with a rodeo, a softball tournament
complex and we show that in a couple different ways and, then, they would all have
typical park amenities, such as play equipment, restrooms, parking, and all the utilities
that go along with that. So, here is concept A and you can see that it's laid out with
parking right close up on Cherry Lane, mostly to take advantage of the fact that we
wouldn't have to build as much roadway to get to the back of the park. Concept A, as
they all do, includes about a seven acre dog park along the west side of the parcel and
this depicts a potential rodeo concept use, which is a more permanent situation than is
currently out there and is not necessarily something that the Lion's Club gave to us as
their dream rodeo, we just wanted to show how, within a park program base of this size
you could accommodate sufficient rodeos -- an arena of the size that they would require
and, then, barns and practice area. So, it's representational of what could be done out
there. And they did advise us as to the size of the riding arena, so that it would -- it
would accommodate a variety of different events. The constraints with concept A, as
really with all of them, are there is no water and sewer out to this site and would need to
be extended prior to park development. Currently there is minimal funding for rodeo
improvements. There is also minimal funding for the city park elements. And one of the
uncertainties in this scenario is whether or not there is a sufficient market demand or
use for a rodeo site solely designated year around and that's -- it's more posed as a
question. It's just an uncertainty. We don't really know what that demand is. And
currently there is a few Meridian residents that do own horses that doesn't necessarily
limit the use of this site to Meridian, however. Concept B is a classic four-plex where
you build a whole adult softball tournament. Also youth softball tournaments. Again, it
does accommodate the same size dog park and it does address a current demand that
the city has for softball use, which his something that came up in the city's park survey
and is something that the city is questioned about regularly in terms of being able to
provide the facilities for high level tournaments that generate quite a bit of revenue for
the parks department and for the city. In this type of a complex the fields are clustered,
which is a typical environment. It allows you to put your restroom and concessions
central and have multiple play fields going on at the same time. The constraints are
very similar in terms of utilities. There is, again, no water and sewer and one thing to
consider if this site was to be used for night tournaments would be the lighting and glare
that can be caused by ball field lighting. Concept C. Again, the dog park. Again, this is
a four-plex, but it's a split park and, really, we did that just to see what if you were to
have the parking in the middle, does that really change anything for how you could
accommodate and use the site and I think our answer was it's not really -- it's not a
great -- it's not a good use of space, it's not ideal. However, it's something to think
about if you were to put just two ball fields out there. But, again, having two fields
doesn't really allow for tournament use in the same way. But it does provide nice
centralized parking for all uses. Different in this site in terms of constraints, as I just
mentioned, are not having the ball parks clustered, it just makes it more difficult for
people that may be playing on field one in one game and field four in another to easily
get to and from. Same issue with night lighting as concept B. So, as you can see that
western portion of the park was a common theme throughout all of them. Again, we
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were really looking at how do we plan for some long-term uses based on current
demand, like the dog park, and, then, allow for the other acres of the park to really be
able to be decided in the future in terms of what would be a use that could be
accommodated and would be compatible in terms of providing sufficient parking and
this list that you see in front of you I'm not going to read, but it was provided to us
through the dog park task force and they have a very comprehensive list of the types of
things that they would tike included out there, many of which are at similar dog parks in
the valley and some things which are not at other dog parks in the valley, which would
really make this dog park extremely well used. So, in terms of implementation, again,
none of the projects are funded beyond this initial concept plan. So, there is a utility
need to get water and sewer to this site. If there were to be interim uses you could
accommodate -- such as a dog park, you could accommodate with portable facilities,
but that would be a reality of that. In terms of roadways, access will come off of Cherry
Lane and you will notice that the roadway shown, the north-south road, is actually split
on that parcel line, assuming that development to the east would share that. Parking
would need to accommodate both interim, which could be a dog park, and long-term
uses and we used a parking generation rate very similar to the one -- other than the city
in terms of ballpark demand, so we are trying to be really careful to not overdo it on
parking, but to have enough for tournament and other high use areas. The cost that we
provided, I wanted to stress that those were on a very, very preliminary basis. We didn't
do any engineering or design work to get more detailed number than -- more like a cost
per acre. So just to give you an idea as you look forward what the relative cost might be
from one option to another. And, finally, the entire project as is the case in most
projects, would be phased according to funding availability and, really, our main goal
was to make sure we don't, again, preclude anything now -- or preclude anything in the
future by being too short-sighted today. So, that was why we spent some time really
laying out those concepts. So, last month this was presented to the parks commission
and they provided us with the following directions. They had motions that were made.
One that the concept of the new dog park should move forward. Two that a concept of
an animal shelter should not move forward at this site. And, three, that they accepted
the concept plan as presented, minus the animal shelter as a guide for future
development and that is the same version of the document that you have in front of you.
So, I can take questions now or do you want to wait until after the other presentations?
Okay.
de Weerd: Council, questions?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, quick question for Susan. I need a refresher. There was a
reason why you located the dog park on the west side, as opposed to the east side.
Was that because of -- was that a lateral or ditch or -- I'm trying to recall what the
reason was for that.
Graham: That's correct. Steve, are you going to get me there? Madam Mayor, Council
members, Council Member Hoaglun, yes. Initially the dog park was sited -- western
boundary line -- which I'm not sure if I'm going to get this working or not, is about where
an existing drainage is located. So, that's one reason why it's there. It's a good easy in
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 14 of 48
terms of interim to just parcel that off and we wouldn't have to do anything to that ditch
in the short run if we didn't need to. The other reason is the Williams pipeline runs over
here and there is limitations on what you can do above the pipeline, so, we are trying to
keep that area primarily open grass and limit any construction of physical improvements
on that side.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: One additional reason is that if we were to try and move the dog park to the
east side of that ditch, we would be encroaching on area that the rodeo currently uses
for parking for their annual rodeo. They park up to that ditch and so we were trying to
stay out of the area where they are parking.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: What's the parking numbers that you're anticipating with the three concepts?
Graham: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree, (believe --
don't have the plan in front of me, so Steve might need to help me. It was 12 stalls per
acre, which I think is about 500 stalls for this site.
Siddoway: There is a range. I think they run from 400 to 500. I think the largest one is
a little over 500, but the 12 per acre -- looking for that section -- does strike me as
correct. I'll look it up.
de Weerd: Anything else from Council?
Rountree: I have nothing.
de Weerd: While Steve looks that up we can have comments from our parks
commission chair. Thank you, Susan.
Graham: Thank you.
de Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 15 of 48
Steele: Madam Mayor, Council, Creg Steele, 2021 Northwest 8th Street, Meridian.
Chairman of the parks and rec commission.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Steele: I just wanted to real quickly -- and I will keep this quick, because there is other
people that want to speak. The commission in going through this process, there were a
lot of a-mails -- in fact, you have the packets. There were a lot of e-mails, letters, and,
then, of course, personal presentations in testimony when we had our meeting and we
pretty much limited our meeting to the three different parks that you have seen and
Susan showed you the slide and the one you currently see on your screen. On looking
at the dog park, whether it should be there, in our opinion, or not, the animal shelter, if it
should be there or not, and, then, overall in general did we accept the concept plan that
they presented to E and after looking at the testimony -- hearing the testimony and
looking at the information that we had, we as a commission thought that we should keep
the dog park there, not the shelter, just because of noise and. some other things, and, in
general, we accepted the concept plan that was presented to us. And that's kind of it for
us. Any questions?
de Weerd: Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Creg, is there any preference as to which concept or you're just seeing them
all as possibilities?
Steele: At this time it was all of them as possibilities. Before you bring in the baseball
or rodeo on a permanent basis, I think you're going to have to have sewer and some
other amenities there that aren't currently at the site. So, at this time we decided to
leave that for another discussion at a later date.
Rountree: So, I take that comment to mean that your concept of a concept and concept
of moving forward with a dog park is that you won't need any facilities in place and I
don't believe that's correct.
Steele: At this point what we are looking at as far as a dog park was having porta-
potties or something like that. That if that part of it were to go forward. Because there
is a need for -- and I don't know, you know, what the need would be. Steve has talked
to Ada County and some others about what we can and cannot do out there. But if
you're going to put in a permanent restroom, you would have to have the sewer and
water and stuff like that.
Rountree: I believe one of the items that I saw in the needs for that particular item was
a well maintained grass area. How is that going to be done without water?
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 16 of 48
Steele: Well, I think in the plan that the dog people are coming forward with that they
will provide the money to put in a well to be able to water that section. It wouldn't be
potable water, but it would be water that we could water the site with.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
de Weerd: Steve, can you answer that?
Siddoway: The parking or the --
de Weerd: The water.
Rountree: All of the above.
de Weerd: Or both.
Siddoway: So, the -- on the question of the irrigation water, an irrigation system would
have to be developed in order to put a dog park out there. That would have to be part
of the cost to putting a dog park. And if one were developed prior to water and sewer
being out there, it would have to be done with porta-potties.
Hoaglun: And, Madam Mayor and Councilman Rountree, I do recall from parks
commission meetings or -- the discussion was there are irrigation rights to that property
and there is a -- it's a -- to a well that may already be out there, if I recall correctly, that
we could pull from, but there would have to be some maintenance to the pump and
different things added to that, but there are options, but all involve money to some
degree or another.
Rountree: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Two things. First, I see there are other commissioners here. Would you
introduce them?
Steele: Yes. Tom is here in the front row and Treg and Phil are in the back.
Zaremba: Thank you. Second, it's well known that I'm an advocate of having the
animal shelter and the dog park co-located and I just wonder if you would review for us
what tipped the balance for the commission to not support the animal shelter being
there.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 17 of 48
Steele: After listening to the presentations and some of the information -- reading
through some of the information we had, noise was a big concern with the -- with the
animal shelter, having that many dogs in a closed space. And, then, of course, you
have the waste and stuff from it also. So, the noise and some of those things were the
largest issues with us. And so because of that it -- we felt like there might be a better
place for the shelter in an industrial area or something like that to where noise might not
be a factor.
Zaremba: Thank you.
de Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council?
Rountree: I have nothing.
de Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Creg.
Steele: Thank you.
de Weerd: Yes, Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: I can confirm the section 3.2 of the plan it does state that the -- the parking
was based on ten to 14 stalls per acre and that based on that range at 14 stalls that
would mean 420. The concepts range between 400 and 500, so some have a little bit
less, some have more. But it's in that -- in that range. For comparison, out at -- out at
Settlers Park I believe there is a little over 700 stalls. So, Settlers has more than this
does, but it also is a larger park with more uses, so --
de Weerd: Thank you. Also part of the parks commission subcommittee was the dog
park task force. Are you the spokesperson or you want to introduce it? If you will state
your name and address for the record.
LeClaire: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Tom
LeClaire, chairman of the dog park task force and a commissioner on the parks and
recreation commission.
de Weerd: Thank you, Tom.
LeClaire: Thank you. We have -- when the Bark Park opened last summer it was
hugely popular. We found just a fantastic amenity in our city and it's the dogs and
owners were thrilled to have it and -- but with a great new amenity came new
challenges. We realize that it was overused and the -- our group has been looking for
options for a dog park within our parks system and in new developments like this Borup
property. I gave you a surface sketch of this presentation from within, what the parks
commission had worked on last April at a workshop on the same issue and so I don't
want to just show you that all over again and we have some new things to show you
tonight and so I just want to introduce our task force, if we have a few minutes, and I'm
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 18 of 48
going to go right to it. We think this is a good solution, this concept plan, and we hope
you will endorse it and give us some momentum in developing this park. And so who
would like to -- this is Shannon Wood with our group and she will be first.
Wood: Stating my name and address for the record.
de Weerd: Yes. Thank you.
Wood: I'm Shannon Wood. I live at 2917 South Givens Way in Meridian and I'm
speaking on behalf of the dog park task force this evening and, first, I think I'd like to
thank you all for the opportunity to do this. I think I speak for everybody here when I say
we feel really fortunate to be part of a city where citizen participation is so encouraged
like this. Also I want to make sure that it's understood that we on the dog park task
force really appreciate the concerns of the neighbors to the Borup property and we have
listed to their -- excuse me -- listened to their concerns and taken them seriously and
appreciate the opportunity for the open dialogue and collaboration and hope that
through more of that we can come to a solution that everybody feels comfortable with.
So starting with the benefits of a dog park. I think the benefits to dogs are probably
blatantly obvious, but I don't want to diminish the benefits to people as well. So, the
communal style of the park allows more people to meet each other, creating, extending,
and strengthening the bonds of Meridian residents with each other. It offers new
residents a place to go to meet people with whom something -- they are already have
something in common and I think we all know that the stronger the bonds are between
our residents, the stronger our community is in general.
Siddoway: Hang on one second, please. It's not showing up correctly. I'm trying to
keep up with you, so it went -- there it goes. Okay. We just had a computer glitch.
Wood: Thanks for being my clicker. I'm onto the next one now.
Siddoway: Okay.
Wood: So, in addressing the neighbor concerns, again, I wanted to just reiterate that
we really do appreciate the level of engagement that Donna and everybody else who
borders the Borup property has set forth and we did take them seriously and in trying to
address some of their concerns we have done research, we have called other cities to
talk to their parks staff and so that we can leverage and learn from their experiences
with dog parks and, of course, there is all the informal polling we do at our own Bark
Park and the Boise parks and the Nampa parks, which most of us attend on a regular
basis. So, first thing on the concerns has to do with, as you might imagine, safety first,
and I think that we can address the majority of these concerns by making sure that we
have a six foot tall chain link fence. Wrought iron won't work. We need chain link to
keep the small dogs in and other small animals from coming on the outside. A double
entry gate that allows for controlled access. This will prevent dogs from running loose
and amuck in the parking lot scaring rodeo horses or anybody else that might be around
and, above all, requiring that all dogs be leashed until they are safely inside the park.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 19 of 48
How do we make sure this happens? I think through governance and appropriate and
abundant signage clearly outlining the park rules posted outside and within the park
and, then, a Bark Park patrol, kind of an informal peer governance system. We have
already got that now at our current park, it just sort of evolved out of the frequent users,
the regulars, if you will, trying to make sure that all the rules are followed, introducing
new people to the park, making sure they feel welcome and understand the rules before
they come in. Okay. Let's talk about poop. Sanitation, of course, is a big concern and
think that in this case it's really all about preparation. Adequate number of bag stations
and trash receptacles, signage, making sure everyone understands they are
responsible for picking up after their pet and peer governance again will keep the park
clean. I think we have all come to realize that the park's most frequent users are only
interested in playing in a clean park and will take the steps necessary to make sure it
stays that way. Noise and real estate impact. A dog park can be a good neighbor. And
that's not me talking, that's the Eugene, Oregon, parks maintenance supervisor. And
when we talk about noise and real estate impact, I think our experience shows we can
rely on the experience and expertise of the Meridian Parks Department to utilize
appropriate landscaping, like berms and trees, to make the park an attractive addition to
the neighborhood. Those things also help mitigate noise, as well as positioning the gate
away from adjacent housing and using an adequate setback for fencing to create
separation between the parks and the neighbors. I think the next point has sort of been
asked and answered many times over the last few months and that's really about
demand and will people really be willing to drive out to the Borup property to exercise
their dogs and I just want to point out this photo that Brian took a couple weeks ago.
The park had been closed on a regular day due to police training and they reopened it
at 5:00 and this was at 5:45, so in less than an hour the parking lot was full and the park
was full of dogs and people. So, I think we have proven that the demand is certainly
there and people are willing to drive to an appropriate place to exercise their dogs.
Again, I hope, you know, we have addressed some of the neighbor concerns and that
we will continue with the open dialogue and collaboration to try to come up with a
solution that everybody's comfortable with. I know Donna is going to speak later and I
hope she will continue to come to our meetings, too. So, I'd like to talk now about why
the Borup property specifically is important. As it turns out, size does matter. We found
out firsthand how overuse can affect a dog park resulting in mud and things like that.
And the Borup property is really perfect for us, because it allows for a seven acre dog
park. At its ultimate acres it would allow for a proper rotation schedule for turf
maintenance. We have spoken with Elroy specifically about this and that's part of why
the current park is closed for three days a week in order to allow the turf to recover.
And also a seven acre dog park would certainly address our capacities at this point.
Through our research and conversations with other cities' parks departments we have
confirmed with them that the rotation system is the key to turf maintenance and Borup
would allow us to use one part and close off other sections, you know, as the turf
recovers. Another critical things about using -- having a seven acre dog park is that it
allows for walking paths. This keeps people and dogs moving throughout the park and
this really minimizes the opportunity for altercations. It's the big difference between the
Nampa park and the one we have now. We'd also like to consider a phased approach
to development of the park, say we start with like four acres. Still big enough to allow
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 20 of 48
for paths and turf rotation, but it would allow us to expand gradually as the funds are
raised to the full seven acres. So, a big point that's come up the last couple months is
about how when we looked at alternative sites was should we have several parks that
are less than an acre or should we have one dog park and to that end we all got
together and looked at alternative sites. The benefits of a large dog park, again,
walking paths, turf rotation, and Borup actually allows for a small dog area. Small parks
are not going to allow us to have this kind of flexibility and I'm not exactly sure how the
budget figures would relate to building several small parks or one large park. Speaking
of budgets -- so, because they are tight, as we all know, we got together as a group,
parks commissioners and Donna and some people from the dog park task force and
went out and took pictures and investigated some alternative sites. After that we really
came to the conclusion that Borup was not only the most affordable, but perhaps the
quickest to develop. After all, the city already owns it. The two other most favorable
sites were the Jabil property, but the city doesn't own that and it currently, I believe,
gains some revenue from its use by sport clubs, et cetera. And if we were to build a
park there it would only be temporary and would have to be moved at a later date. The
two acre parcel adjacent to Storey Park also not owned by the city. So, to us Borup
was the quickest and most affordable. Perhaps one of the most important reasons --
we were lucky enough to have a police department that was willing to share their
training facility with us for a dog park. They have been really good about it, but,
understandably so, they'd like their training facility back and I think they probably
deserve that. And, lastly, we talked a little bit about Meridian quality of life. I touched
on this earlier. Dog parks are not just for dogs, they are for people and for fostering
community. A signature dog park we believe would really enhance the quality of life in
Meridian, a city already known for its beautiful parks and continue to make Meridian a
great place to live. I have a little excerpt here from a letter that Madam Mayor sent to
Stephanie Griswald that talks a little bit about the parks -- current park's capacity. Since
the Bark Park opening the response from the public has been amazing. It has been
used by hundreds of dogs, as your letter states. With the success of the park and its
relatively small size of about half an acre, this facility is not able to handle the amount of
dogs who are currently taking advantage of this opportunity. So, again, kind of asked
and answered, the demand is there and we don't have enough room. So, you probably
are wondering what is that we want? What are we asking for? What are the next steps.
It's really simple. We'd like you to approve the inclusion of a seven acre dog park in the
Borup plan. We'd also like you to approve the use of the existing concept plans for us
to use in fundraising efforts and we'd like you to consider a phased approach to
development, so we can start with something smaller, so we can get out of the police
training facility and, then, work our way up to the ultimate seven acres. Thank you.
That's all I have and I'm happy to take questions, if you have any.
de Weerd: Thank you, Shannon. Council, questions at this time?
Bird: I don't have any.
Rountree: I don't have any right now.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 21 of 48
de Weerd: Okay.
Wood: Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you so much. Okay. That's the part on our commission and our
department's side. As we enter into entertaining public comment, I would ask the city
clerk to read the names into the record that we have written testimony already as part of
your packets from the Council.
Holman: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The comments that we have -- so far we have
from Ben Larsen. Ray Plumb. The Depold family. Barbara McClintock. Gene Bray.
Paula Young and Donna Anderson.
de Weerd: Okay. Also noted in your packets, Council, we do have two petitions that
were submitted from Gene Bray and Donna Anderson and those are also part of your
public record. In addition, you do have the public testimony that was provided at the
parks commission, along with the slide presentations in front of you as well. I would ask
-- and I do know we received an a-mail from Mr. Bray that is representing a
homeowners association in that area and the city does recognize homeowners
associations and spokes people I would ask Mr. Bray or the audience who is present
that is part of this homeowners association ceding their time to Mr. Bray, if you will raise
your hand. Thank you. So, Mr. Bray, would you like to provide testimony at this time?
I'm sorry, you will have to speak on the public record.
Bray: Madam Mayor --
de Weerd: If you will state your name and address.
Bray: Gene Edwin Bray. And I would like to defer at this moment to Mrs. Anderson
and, then, I would conclude with the comments for the people that I represent, if that
would be all right.
de Weerd: Okay. Is Mrs. Anderson speaking on behalf of neighbors as well?
Bray; A different group of neighbors, yes.
de Weerd: Okay. Mrs. Anderson, would you like to come forward? I would -- before
can give you more than three minutes I will have to .know who you're speaking on behalf
of and if they are willing to cede their time to you. Thank you, Mr. Bray.
Anderson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I am representing the neighbors
that live on Cherry Lane on the north and south side of the road between Black Cat and
McDermott and a lot of them could not be here this evening. Jerry and Marti Frazier,
Don and Leona Clower, Don and Lori Price, Maxine Shelby, Dale and Jan Markham,
Paul and Lisa Young, Tom and Nettie Thiebold, Helen Aldinger, and Nancy Blake.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 22 of 48
de Weerd: Okay. If you can also state your name and address for the record.
Anderson: Okay. Before I get started. Sorry.
de Weerd: You do have ten minutes.
Anderson: Okay. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Donna
Anderson. I reside 2000 North McDermott Road. Currently I live with my husband and
two dogs, Lydia and Boaz. The west boundary of the Borup site runs the entire length
of my property. I am speaking for the neighbors who live on both sides of Cherry Lane
between Black Cat and McDermott. We appreciate the parks and recreation
commission recognizing that the Borup property was not an appropriate location for an
animal shelter. The surrounding neighbors have submitted a petition asking you to
remove it from the Borup concept. That many dedicated volunteers who take care of
the lost and abandoned dogs of Meridian need a more appropriate place for a new
shelter. I have done a lot of homework about dog parks and have spent many hours
attending parks, City Council, and dog park task force meetings. I have discussed dog
parks with numerous other park directors, some of them have had dog parks for more
than ten years and they range in size from a quarter acre to nine acres. All were happy
to share their information, so that Meridian doesn't have to reinvent the wheel in a dog
park. What do Meridian dog owners want? I was told two of the sources used for
Meridian's need for a dog park came from the park's public input survey and a petition
signed by 150 dog owners. In the 2008 park survey when asked what suggestions they
had, only 13 people said they would like a dog park. That's 1/60th of one percent of a
population of 75,000. The petition with 150 signatures only asked for additional hours
on the three days the park was closed for winter hours, because there were no other off
leash options for the dogs within the city. In visiting all of Meridian's parks I found
someone playing or walking with their dog off leash in every single one. A dad and his
kids were playing Frisbee with their dog. One lady thought since the bag dispenser was
beside a big field, it was okay to play ball with her dog there. Even on the plaza of City
Hall a lady practicing her border collie for an obedience trial had it off leash and several
yards away. A young mother with two small children, a baby in a stroller and a dog
loved the neighborhood park that she can walk to. She frequently let's the kids ride their
bikes to the play area, while she walks the baby and lets the dog play illegally off leash
in the afternoon. She doesn't have time, nor is interested in driving to a dog park. She
couldn't take her kids. The dog park task force is urging you to approve the Borup
property for a large dog park. They are not asking to put the dog park in their.
neighborhood, they are asking to put in our neighborhood in my backyard, six miles,
from the current Bark Park. Boise dog parks are located between a cemetery and a
railroad track and Interstate 84 and a park service yard and the Boise foothills.
Nampa's dog park is located between the railroad tracks, an intersection, and storage
units only one mile from the center of Nampa. Online I could not find one dog park
located in someone's backyard. Large dog parks are usually included in areas with
other destination amenities, such walking trails along rivers, in wooded areas or the
beach. The Borup property has none of these. The largest cities try to have several off-
leash areas centrally located to the people who would use them. This Thursday Boise
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 23 of 48
is going to discuss establishing off-leach hours in designated established parks, so
people can exercise their dogs when the parks are least used. Salt Lake City has a
code on the books stating it's a thousand dollar fine and six months in jail for not picking
up after your dog. Austin, Texas, has a 500 dollar fine. A Meridian sergeant said we
currently did not have a fine. I could check it out at the city code online. There is a fine
of 25 dollars for a violation of this section. Reading part A up here -- I'm not sure how to
work -- anyway, if you look at part A up there it says dogs running at large are prohibited
in city parks, unless written permission is obtained in advance from director to have a
dog or dogs at large. Since 2003 you could legally run your dog off leash in Meridian's
parks if you had permission. Mountain View, California, has a program where dog
trainers can apply to use the city park for training dogs off leash during certain hours in
certain parks. What an innovative idea, an off-leash permit for your dog. This is not
letting your dog run wild. Restriction and fees are needed. With an off-leash permit
responsible dog owners could legally do what they are already doing illegally, walk and
play with their dog. One couple who regularly take their dog to Meridian's Bark Park
also have a group of neighbors who like to get together with all of their dogs illegally off
leash at the park near their homes. There is lots of details to work out, but the young
mother who wants to take her kids and dog to play in the neighbor park wouldn't have to
fear a fine. She would gladly pay 25 dollars for an annual permit to her neighborhood
park. The code is in place. Dog owners could apply to the parks department tomorrow
for a permit. Meridian could have the distinction of a town that recognizes the value of
dogs as companions and family members. An off-leash permit would be a low cost
solution that is revenue positive. The dogs at large issue is on the table. Please
consider a provision for the responsible dog owners who are not asking for a dog park.
They just want to walk in their neighborhood park with their dogs. Let Meridian step up
and lead the way in the Treasure Valley with an innovative idea. We don't need a dog
park in our neighborhood. No one in a one mile radius would use it. Every concept
plan has a dog park on this site as if there were no other use for this land. If the drain
ditch running north and south on the property were piped you could have entirely
different layout possibilities. The horse park and dog park are incompatible. If you're to
give the Lion's Club two years to develop more use of the site, please, give them a fair
chance and not hinder them with dogs. We have enjoyed working with the rodeo and
grant them a second access to the property off of McDermott Road through our
property. A dog park would eliminate access from McDermott for them. Meridian's draft
goals and objectives for the future were discussed at the recent town hall meeting. We
would encourage you to strive to attain those goals and apply them to the Borup site.
Number 42. Maintain integrity of housing areas to preserve values and ambience of
areas. Number 43. Plan for appropriate uses within rural areas. Number 44.
Encourage compatible uses to minimize conflict and maximize use of land. Number 66.
Insure that all planning decisions and ordinance implementation balances the interest of
the community with the project of private property rights for owners today and future
generations. These are just four examples. Our neighborhood would like City Council
to remand the Borup property site plan back to the parks and recreation for a
considerate alternative to the dog park, one that's not -- one that is not incompatible with
horses. Right now they are saying that the only possible use for that western third of
the property is a dog park. What about a unique destination type facility -- activity that
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 24 of 48
Boise and Nampa do not offer. Consider an agricultural park to celebrate Meridian's
agricultural heritage. There is federal funding available for community gardens. Make it
educational so school kids could see a plot of potatoes growing for the Meridian Food
Bank or growing pumpkins so the Boys and Girls Club could sell them at the scarecrow
festival. And I lost my last sheet, so we are just going to have to wing it. The -- our
neighborhood -- we got that. Federal funding is available for community gardens. I'm
sure there are other ideas for those -- for ten acres out there. We would like you to ask
the parks department to give you another option and to find some other off-leash areas
in -- within the City of Meridian. Do you have any questions?
de Weerd: Thank you, Mrs. Anderson. Council, any questions for Mrs. Anderson?
Okay.
Anderson: Thank you very much.
de Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bray.
Bray: Madam Mayor and Councilmen.
de Weerd: Good evening.
Bray: My name is Gene Bray and I live at 5654 EI Gato Lane and I'm representing the
-- some 19 property owners on that lane. We have a couple lots that don't have
permanent homes on them. And so our experience is similar to that observed by -- by
Mrs. Anderson and we have seen in every city park that we visited at almost all times of
the day off leash activity and I believe they are responsible neighbors and they don't like
to be pushing the envelope, the pressure to be able to walk from their home to their
local park is -- is quite overwhelming compared to having to drive some distance to a --
to aplace where they can legally run their dogs and so they take the risk. Our
neighborhoods -- the 19 people that I spent five days discussing and getting signatures
on several petitions, they are resolute that the three alternatives that are presented and
contained on this plan really are not three alternatives, because the -- there is one
consistent thing and that is the dog park and certainly we feel that to be even handed it
would be appropriate to create a parallel task force, because there is a dog park task
force, but not one for any other purpose and one -- one logical one would be for a
community garden program, which provides community or gardening opportunities for
physical, social benefits, and perhaps even mental health for the people and the
neighborhoods in Meridian if they could have some place to garden and especially with
hard economic times coming on my property in particular I have run a community
garden and we -- we had -- we furnished food to an expanded family of refugees
starting with six from Nepal and, then, they, in turn, shared that food with other families
and so -- and the other alternative that has been on the table with one of our signers,
Mrs. Byham, was to -- that was in the comment card on the June 30th task force, was to
have an equine exercise park for paid use of five dollars a day for horse use of an arena
in the same ten acres. And so these other alternatives for the use of that ten acres had
not been considered or entertained at all and yet they have been respectively,
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 25 of 48
repeatedly brought up in front of the parks and recreation committee. Another thing
occurred to me today, which was very instructive. When I did the survey of the 19
residents and the 30 some odd signers, there were three of them that said that they
would like access to a dog park and that perhaps Borup would fill that bill and, then, I
asked them about, well, what would you -- what would you think about going down -- if
we could make off leash legal in Fuller Park, would you -- what would you think of that
and every one of them said, oh, we'd rather go to Fuller Park, because we could just
walk down EI Gato, cross over the collector, and to -- on Black Cat and walk down to
the Ten Mile green belt and walk right over to the park and that would really -- really be
very effective. So, in my zeal to pursue that I did get a hold of the Western Ada County
Recreation -- the part of the -- I got it here. It's -- it's district -- it's the district. And found
that we outliers in Ada County pay every year on our property taxes for that -- into that
kitty and so, therefore, we have a vested interest in -- in the Fuller Park, as well as the
swimming pool and as well as Settlers. So, I did call the gentleman at the -- at the
office, which is at 30 East Franklin and talked to Mr. -- Mr. Gary Smith and we
discussed sort of what would it take to have -- to change the rules in that park and have
you changed it at any of the other parks and he answered in the affirmative, that, yes,
for Settlers Park they had actually considered agarden -- a community garden project,
but they figured that the half acre was so small it wasn't worth doing all of the
development and they said that also they tried to transfer that property to the
homeowners near by, but they didn't want it, because they would have to maintain it and
the -- they wanted the district to keep maintaining it and so, therefore, that thing fell
through. So, then, I asked him, well, has anybody ever asked about the Fuller Park and
being able to change the rules there and he said, no, nobody's ever -- ever asked about
that. I said, well, what if there was a community need for a dog or community gardening
park and he -- he indicated that, well,. I think we would consider that and so I said, well,
have you heard from anybody about those sorts of alternatives and the answer was no
and so -- and so here we have a solution that could be put in place at least for the
residential areas in section ten where -- where the Fuller Park is and that could be done
with the stroke of a pen and the only requirement, at least according to Mr. Smith is that
they would like to be done without any increased maintenance responsibilities on the
part of the district. And with all of the dog park supporters it would seem to me that --
that that sort of facility could be created either in a ball park or some of the outlying
areas that are -- that are really now just bare turf that could accommodate walks from
their homes to -- from many homes and the Fuller Park, as long as the maintenance
was not a -- an increased burden on the district and so it seems to me that -- that just
the basic steps of trying to see if there is an alternate and an immediate solution to the
problem at least for that set of developments was never investigated by either the
consultant on this project or by any park and rec -- rec -- any of Mr. Siddoway's people
and -- nor did the City Council -- anybody at the City Hall call and say, hey, could we
work out a deal and so I have been convinced that it's -- a deal could be made rather
easily provided that the maintenance road for that park was not increased and that the
dog community would take care of what needed to be taken care of and I think that in
view of that, the City Council should remand back to the parks and recreation
commission the plan being offered and proceed with doing something that is -- should
be very inexpensive and very obvious and very immediate help to -- to that community
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 26 of 48
and the same thing if it can be done there can also be done with the other city parks
and give the large -- populous at large the ability to walk their dogs in the parks that are
near their homes and not have to drive some rather significant distance to the proposed
facility that's practically on the Canyon county line. So, with that I would be delighted to
answer any questions.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this time? Thank you.
Bray: Thank you very much.
de Weerd: We do have a number of people who signed up on the sign-up sheet and
when I read your name if you would like to provide testimony. I will read into the record
your statements in favor or in opposition of the proposed concept plans. If you'd like to
provide testimony when I read off your name I certainly invite you forward. We do have
three minutes for all public testimony. Shannon has already been heard from.
Stephanie Griswald signed up in favor. Scott Robertson signed up in favor. Okay.
Barb Hatch signed up in favor. Thank you. Gale Shiner -- and if I mutilate your name
apologize in advance. At least I'm saying the right name. Kind of similar. Signed up in
favor. Shannon Kleiner is signed up in favor. Delores Baker or Delora Baker.
Deborah. Thank you. Your L -- your B looked like an L. Sorry.
Baker: Madam Mayor, I didn't print my name as I should have. Hello. My name is
Deborah Baker and I wanted to just address a few things that I heard from the
homeowners and the homeowners association, some things that concern me as a dog
owner. One of the things that I heard was off leash parks with no way to contain a dog
and I think that's asafety -- huge safety issue. People can't just be letting their dogs off
the leash running around with no fence. There has to be some sort of fencing system
and that's why we even recommend the double gates. So, I don't think that parks -- just
any old park just opening it up is a really viable solution for the city. I think it creates a
huge liability issue. Maybe Mr. Nary can talk about that. One thing I did want to point
out is that Meridian is growing to the west. This Borup property is going to be a park of
some sort and these -- these residents, while they have a genuine concern, they are not
going to have a choice, a park is going to go there. I think that it would be nice to have
a park. They talk about having community parks -- parks in the neighborhood, but they
don't want this park and so I'm confused, because I think it's a benefit. And they even
said that neighbors would walk to the park if it was there. Some neighbors. That's kind
of confusing that they don't think people will drive, because I -- I participate in the
Nampa dog park, I drive there frequently. I see Meridian residents there. In fact, on
Saturday when I was talking about the City Council meeting and encouraging people to
come to this meeting, the first few people I talked to were from Meridian and they are
like, yeah, we don't really have a decent park, do we. And that's why the Borup
property is so important, is because we need something we can do now. Right now we
have a half acre that the police really want back and we have nothing as dog owners
and I don't understand the comment about the children. At the dog parks that I go to,
Boise, Nampa, and here in Meridian, I see children all of the time. So, they can be
brought into a dog park and should be. They are part of the community. So, I'm
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 27 of 48
confused. I feel like there is opposing -- you know, it's like one leg is saying one thing
and the other leg is doing the other thing, so -- and I don't see how the rodeo grounds
are incompatible with a dog park. My dog loves horses and horses like her. So, in -- to
me they are not incompatible and it's not like she's going to be running around off leash
not in a fenced area for horses who generally don't like dogs. I would never let her
approach a horse, you know, without knowing about the horse. So, I don't think that the
two are incompatible. In fact, I think they kind of go hand in hand and a lot of horse
owners have dogs that they take with them when they go. So, I feel like there is a lot of
disconnect here. Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Marjorie Rolls signed up in favor. Okay. Greg Mayhew signed
up in favor. Sandra Champion signed up in favor. Bill Burns signed up in favor.
Barbara Wood signed up in favor. Connie Peterson signed up in favor. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Peterson: Connie Peterson. 7082 North Pencross in Meridian.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Peterson: I'm the president of the Meridian Valley Humane Society and the reason that
became involved in the dog park task force is because -- well, there are many, many
needs in our community, two of them that are blatantly obvious to me are lack of an
adequate shelter and lack of space for the dog park. These are two facilities that are --
have atremendous amount of overuse and so when we next had this concept or idea of
wouldn't it be great to have these two amenities come together, because they would
compliment each other so well. Regardless of whether the animal shelter is placed with
the dog park, again, looking at the situation where the dog park is currently with the
police department struggling to combine and both using that facility, I think it's important
that we find somewhere that we can start to move on and make a dog park happen and
certainly looking at the options available, the Borup property seemed to be the most
obvious. So, I guess I would just say that I would be in favor of approving this, so that it
gives us an opportunity to move forward -- take steps in moving forward.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Peterson: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba. Connie.
Zaremba: May I ask you a question? The parks and recreation commission in
recommending that the shelter not be included in this plan sites the noise from the
shelter and I -- on my own experiences that I have been out to our Public Works facility
where our current dog shelter is several times, before I even knew it was there, I never
heard any noise out there and I have driven by the current dog park several times and,
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 28 of 48
you know, maybe a few times dogs were laughing at each other, that kind of barking. It
didn't bother me, but there isn't even that and I'm just wondering what is your
experience around shelters?
Peterson: Well, it's -- it's very unfortunate that I was out of town when they did have
that meeting, because certainly noise would -- would not be an issue when you're
looking at an animal shelter. I'm also on the board of the Idaho Humane Society and
that is a facility that accommodates 14,000 animals a year and if you go and stand
outside that facility you do not hear barking. So, when you design ashelter -- even our
little tiny metal building that we have, barking or the sounds or even the waste that they
were referring to, truly is not an issue. So, it is unfortunate that that seemed to be
something that was considered as the problem, because certainly sound, smell, waste,
none of those are issues and that's very obvious again if you go to a large facility and
simply stand outside, you do not experience those issues. So, it's unfortunate that that
was the deciding factor in removing the animal shelter from the property. And as far as
a dog park as well, too, you know, I spent a lot of time on the soccer fields and the
baseball fields and certainly parks that accommodate those types of sports are going to
create an abundance of noise much more so than you are with a dog park when you're
going to have, you know, simply some dogs running through a park. When you hear the
parents on the soccer field you get the idea of, you know, where noise is really
generated. So, it is very unfortunate that that decision was made certainly on sound,
because that truly would not be a problem and I do understand that the amenities are a
ways out to this particular property, which would make building challenging. However,
you know, to potentially plan for it in the future or look at other alternatives as we have
talked about, I do still feel it's certainly viable to do.
Zaremba: Thank you.
de Weerd: I guess I would add -- I had the same observation you had, Mr. Zaremba,
that I can say when you open the door and go in the building it is very loud.
Peterson: That's only because it is a metal building that has a big garage door on it.
de Weerd: It wasn't really built for --
Peterson: Yeah. It wasn't designed as a shelter, so it's a metal building that was never
designed to be a shelter, but, yet, it is. So, you don't do a -- you don't design a shelter
with a great big garage door that -- that's opens up. That's -- you know, it's not at all
how they would be contained.
de Weerd: No. But the point was it -- outside you're correct, and inside I'm sure it
would be designed for that particular use, instead of what we do have, but --
Peterson: Yeah. Just like the --
de Weerd: Noisy parents on the sidelines, so --
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 29 of 48
Peterson: Oh. Well, so am I, so --
de Weerd: Thank you.
Peterson: Thank you.
de Weerd: Colynn Halstead signed up in favor. Chris Halstead signed up in favor.
Della Burton signed up in favor. Stacy Ford sign up in favor. Tom we have already
heard from. Okay. Well, we will let you wrap up at the end. Nancy Fertell signed up in
favor. Mike Anderson is neutral. I think his wife already spoke on behalf -- signed up
against, but ran out of space. Over -- kind of overdid it, uh?
M.Anderson: My name is Mike Anderson. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council,
live at 2000 North McDermott Road. I have -- in three minutes I have a lot of findings,
facts, and concrete steps to take. So, here we go. One, there is a need for more off-
leash areas in Meridian now. The police department would like to have their K9 training
facility back soon. So, please, instruct the parks director to promulgate regulations for
off-leash permits per the existing code quickly. The next step would be to temporarily
fence existing unused areas into two or three parks similar to the current half acre at the
police department within the next few months before nice weather. Five. Next fall
evaluate the use of these sites and locations well before the Lion's rodeo horse park two
year evaluation is made. Six. The nearest expected user of the Borup dog park is over
a mile away. It is boxed in by Canyon county and is 330 feet from the county line. That
means people with Nampa addresses will use it as much as the dog lovers of Meridian.
Six. Again, six -- 6-A. Large destination dog parks have only been successful in
conjunction with other attractions, such as a river front, a forested woodland, or an
ocean beach. The irrigation now in place -- is now in place for growing food. A look at
demographics and geography of the area, scattered parcels impede development for
quite some time. It's difficult to extend the city through five acre parcels that have
houses on them. That is not going to happen. As an engineer it takes only a few
seconds to calculate that this remote location will increase the consumption of Saudi
Arabian gas by tens of thousands of gallons per year. Horses are totally incompatible
with strange dogs. By the number. Here we go. Borup is six miles west of the city
center population in contract to Meridian community parks concept. Number 10. The
76 neighbors that signed the petition all live closer to the Borup site than any Meridian
resident. Eleven. Donna has really done her homework and found that the Borup
property park plan does not meet at least five of the parks and rec's comprehensive
guidelines for developing a community park.
de Weerd: I'm sorry. Your time is up.
M.Anderson: B-1-C. Community parks 50 percent of development. B-2-B. Adequate
buffers not available. As I say. B-C-2. Possible one and a half miles before -- you can't
bike there, you can't walk there. Street frontage at least on two sides, you only got one.
You guys are supposed to have three. Borup's two miles from the planned city sewer to
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 30 of 48
the north. Ada County Planning and Zoning and both Meridian desire to minimize urban
sprawl. I'd like you to show my picture now, if you would, please.
Rountree: Time.
de Weerd: Mr. Anderson, I'm sorry, your three minutes --
M.Anderson: You can't see the --
de Weerd: We will see -- we will see your picture. By the end of it we will see your
picture.
M.Anderson: You will see the picture. All right.
de Weerd: Yes.
M.Anderson: I have more if you want to talk to me later.
de Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you, sir. We will have you try
as I call additional folks. We have Irene Wright signed up against. Jon Anson signed
up against. Thank you.
Anson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you very much for letting me
speak. My name is Jon Anson. 6220 EI Gato Lane, Meridian. I represent JP Arabians.
We are a horse breeding, boarding, and training facility about 1,500 to 2,000 feet due
south of the horse park. We have -- we have about 16 horses or about eight clients and
we -- about four of those are Meridian residents right now, so we are probably what --
where alot of Meridian residents who can't have horses, we are one of many places in
the local area that does -- that keeps the horses for -- for a lot of your -- for a lot of the
city residents. In our area, as you probably heard, there are a lot of horses. My best
estimate we are -- it's greater than 66 horses on EI Gato Lane, which is one on the St.
James Place, which is a very -- all very, very close to -- to the park. I strongly support
the existing uses as -- existing uses of this area as a horse park. We all support the
concept that there is a need for a horse park in Meridian -- I mean -- I'm sorry. We
support a need for a dog park in Meridian, just not a dog park in this location. You have
received a lot of innovative ideas from several of the people that -- you know, so you
can -- you can support dogs and dog parks in the area, we just request that you don't
put it in this area. The -- there is a strong horse -- need for addition to these facilities
that you have got set up already for horses and where it's going to go and we hope you
will continue with supporting that need with the -- with the Rotary -- with the Lion's Club.
As other people have talked and said horses and dogs work together, they don't. They
are very -- horses that are unfamiliar with dogs and dogs that are unfamiliar with horses
are a very dangerous combination. The best example that I can provide you is a letter
that you have in your packet from Barbara McClintock who has already been paralyzed
from having a strange dog jump -- go and jump at her horse and that could happen
either on or off leash. When that horse is shocked their rider can get thrown and we
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 31 of 48
already have one person in the neighborhood who has been paralyzed from the
situation. We really request that you don't mix dogs in a horse park. We believe that all
of our -- the clients I have talked to that we have are all in favor of the horse park and
would be able to be -- and would be in favor of using that horse park if you -- if it was --
if we were allowed to use it on a regular basis. And we think it's going to have a lot of
use by the 66 plus horses that are on -- in our neighborhood and from people that will
be hauling in. Please put the -- we support a dog park someplace else and we very
much continue to support not putting the dog pound in there because of the noise and --
because of the noise reasons. Please for the safety of your residents and safety of
others, please, move the dog park. Don't put the dog park in there and keep the horses.
Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Caroline Pavlonik is signed up in favor. Okay. Those are the
names that are signed up. Is there anyone else who like to provide testimony? Please.
Draper: Good evening. Brian Draper. I live at 1996 Christen Way. I'm a member of
the dog park task force. Tonight I want to just say that I wanted to back up everything
that Shannon put forward to you. Tonight we are also here -- the reason that the group
has worn red is in support for our shelter. We know that there is a need for both the
shelter and the dog park somewhere in Meridian and we want to get it done somehow,
some way. The task force looked at every option we could at the different parks and
properties and -- back in February and we came up with the Borup property as the ideal
place compared to everything else and that was really the only option that we had. The
Borup property would work best for the dog park. It would impact the fewest number of
residents I think in Meridian because of the rural area that it is in. The people will drive
to it. It's going to be a lot easier to raise funds to build one dog park, instead of trying to
build several little satellite parks in existing parks where you're going to have neighbors
that are going to be against that also. So, I'd like to say let's move forward, we want to
try to start getting the money in. We need the concept plan approved, so we can start
the fundraising. Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Beehler: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Doug Beehler, 556 Knobhill Court,
Eagle, Idaho. And I'm representing the Meridian Lions Club. This is the second time
have seen this presentation with the concepts as far as the dog park and the softball
fields and the rodeo grounds and the horse park and all of that. My problem that I have
with all of it is under the rodeo park concept it says the constraints are financial. When
it comes time to develop the park all I hear is the dog park task forces says let's go and
let's get this going so the city can develop the rodeo park -- or the dog park. All
indications I have ever gotten from the parks department is that it's our responsibility to
do all the fundraising and all the development if we do it as a horse park. We have
already invested thousand and thousands of dollars in fencing, bucking chutes,
bleachers, and arena fences and all of that. So, we have put in thousands and
thousands of dollars so far. The city has done some weed control, which we do
appreciate. We have done a lot of the weed control ourselves and so my -- my concern
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 32 of 48
is I'm looking at one group saying we need to have this and the city needs to develop it,
but yet we are sitting here trying to put on rodeo grounds and -- or put on a rodeo and
we have been asked to show that it's a good year around use and we now have a two
year evaluation, which we don't have anything official on what that even entails, with --
until August of this year we had not had any opportunity to do anything other than a
temporary use permit for a one time a year use. Now that we have a Conditional Use
Permit we can now start using the facilities more. So, I'm not sure what our two year
time frame is and what our guidelines are or anything like that. And what the
fundraising is from the city versus the fundraising from just the Lion's Club or the
community itself. I guess I'm just confused on all of those issues.
de Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Doug, do you feel that as you develop and now that we have got the Conditional
Use Permit that we can use the facility more than just one weekend a year?
Beehler: Yes. Believe we can. We have had numerous requests over the years that
we have always had to turn down, because of the fact we didn't have a Conditional Use
Permit. Now, we have to start all over again going back to contacting those groups and
to see how often they would like to use it. I mean it's pretty much a turn key facility as
far as the rodeo grounds and the arena itself is concerned. Obviously, sewer and water
is an issue for year around use, but, as you know, every year we use the portable
concession stands and the portable restrooms and things like that and that takes care of
-- and generators to take care of all of our needs for that one weekend. Obviously, if
you want to use it more often facilities are going to be necessary.
Bird: Follow up, Mayor? And, Doug, would you tell the public what the profits off these
rodeos through the Lion's Club go back into the community, what you guys do?
Beehler: Yeah. The Lion's Club is a -- is the largest service organization in the world.
All the proceeds go back to the community. That's why we don't have a big bank
account that says we can develop rodeo grounds and things like that. All the profits
each year are fed back either into the Idaho Lion's Foundation or Lion's Club
International and -- and the local community as far as buying eye glasses and hearing
aids for people that can't afford them and things like that. We do eyesight and hearing
checks, things like that. So, everything we do goes back to the community and,
technically, we are -- we cannot just start banking our funds, because we -- when we --
ourguidelines say when we raise money from the community we have to give it back to
the community and that's what we do.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 33 of 48
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Doug, you -- and I have the same questions you have and want to get an
answer for those. But do you see the incompatibility of concept -- I believe it's concept
A was the only one that actually showed some kind of a rodeo ground -- not specifically
your desire, but something that worked out there and an adjacent dog park.
Beehler: One of the issues is the -- as Mrs. Anderson explained, the use of the
entrance from McDermott, which is a tremendous benefit for us to have the ability to use
that entrance to keep the stock trailers and the stock trucks and the heavy equipment
coming into the facility away from the general public and if that is developed I see that
that entrance goes away and I see a lot more congestion from Cherry Lane because of
that. Did that answer your question as to what --
Rountree: That's the only issue you anticipate?
Beehler: Yeah. Well, if it's fenced, as my understanding it's six foot chain link fence,
then, yeah, I think it would block a lot of our -- our entrance from McDermott, as well as
we do have some overflow parking every once in awhile that we need to kind of expand
in that area and if that was -- if there was a pipe in that ditch that should -- would sure
make that facility a lot more usable, the ditch that separates the property.
Rountree: Is it inconceivable to you that at times when the rodeo grounds were not
used, if, in fact, that's what occurs out there, that that area could be utilized as a dog
park?
Beehler: If we weren't using it -- you're talking about the seven acres that they are
talking about?
Rountree: No. I'm talking about the arena. If there is to be an arena out there, that that
space could be utilized as a dog park.
Beehler: Well, the arena would be all dirt and my understanding is that dog park wants
grass turf area and most of what we have is either gravel -- gravel parking, paved
parking, or dirt arena, so I guess I do not see it being compatible, if you're talking about
using the arena itself as the dog park.
Rountree: Yeah. I have never owned a dog that really cared, but --
Beehler: My horses love -- my horses love grass and my dog doesn't care. Prefers
grass, but --
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
Beehler: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 34 of 48
de Weerd: Additional testimony? Yes, sir. Tom, go ahead. I'll get the guy behind you.
LeClaire: I'm Tom LeClaire, 1923 Pratt Street in Meridian. I took my badge off. And
what I wanted to add some fuel to was the concept of the animal shelter at this location.
In the original concept plan it's cited there that, again, areminder -- and I don't need to
remind anybody, but this is a concept plan. How it's -- how anything is funded on this
land is not part of what we are deciding tonight. And if that's a final destination for an
animal shelter or not, we are not -- we are saying that it makes sense there, but we are
not -- it's not -- it's not a predetermined thing, if that's what -- if that's what the Council
decides. And so it seems like a good fit to us. At our open house this summer there
were about -- there were over 60 people there and I was there and I remember counting
just in the hour or so that I was there participating and seeing who was there, there
were 25 to 30 of those people had the red Humane Society shirts on and they have
been a great resource for our dog park task force and I know this that this is just a
crying need that we have tremendous volunteerism associated with our animal shelter
and I think it's -- it would be a valuable thing to show some commitments from the city
that a new animal shelter is in our plans and it has to compete when it comes time for
funding with everything else, like your capital improvement plan is -- process, that -- that
it seems to make sense in this location. The noise concerns that my friends on the
parks and rec commission raised Ithink -- I just don't understand them. I have been out
to the Humane Society many times. I have a daughter that's a volunteer out there and
out in that parking lot I don't hear any dogs. I'd have no idea there were any dogs or
any animals inside that building. And this new facility would be built with that concept in
mind. And so I think it can be done and I think it would be nice to leave the door open,
leave the option open to have an animal shelter at that site.
de Weerd: Thank you. Sir.
Stom: My name is Jack Stom. I live at 2513 North Maxie Way, Meridian.
de Weerd: Thank you.
Stom: Several things. One is as far as locating the animal shelter near the dog park,
feel like, personally, the only danger is that I might end up going home with an extra
dog. I dump my RV trailer next to the Meridian animal park -- or animal shelter many
times throughout the year and I have never noticed any problem with noise. As far as
the dog park is concerned, I live very close to Chateau Park. Very nice park, used by a
lot of people. It does get noisy with kids, which only brings a smile to my face. I enjoy
that. But I also take part in the Meridian animal park and I go over to the Nampa animal
park -- dog park. Excuse me. And I don't notice any extra noise. Honestly, I -- as a
homeowner, though I don't live in the area where this is proposed, I personally cannot
understand what the problem is with one. I have a problem with proposing that we open
up off leash at parks, though I'm a dog owner, I love my dogs, they are -- neither one of
them are the least bit mean or ornery or anything, but I would be concerned if my dogs
were off leash over at Chateau Park when little kids are around. I have one little dog
that some of the people that see me at the dog park know she likes to just jump up on
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people and say hi. You do that to a little kid it can hurt them. At minimum scare them. I
personally don't like -- would not like having my dogs off leash at a non-dog park. And I
thoroughly enjoy the dog park. We drive to there -- we drive to Nampa once or twice a
week, because of the three days a week that this one's closed. We thoroughly enjoy it.
Our dogs do. And I'm very much in favor. Thank you.
de Weerd: Thank you. Good evening.
Rose: Good evening. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is David
Rose and I live at 774 West Cane Street in Meridian. I'm very much in favor of the dog
park. It seems like there is three objections that I heard. The first was that there could
be another purpose for this, like a community garden. The fact is there is not a ground
swell of support from the community for a community garden. There is a ground swell
of support for a dog park. The other objection was that dogs and horses don't get along
and they are going to fence it, so the dogs and the horses aren't mixing. And the other
objection that I heard was that they could open it up to other parks, which I think the dog
task force has said that doesn't work, we need a big piece of land and I think,
eventually, what -- what really people don't want is they don't want it in their backyard,
but the fact of the matter is that Meridian is no longer a rural agricultural city. We are an
urban community that is growing westward. We all know that in a few years, as land
prices recover, that that area is going to become subdivisions and we also know that we
have to plan for future growth and that area provides a huge amount of land that the city
owns now that they can put a dog park in and provide for residents, future residents,
and who cares if residents of other cities -- I mean we want people to come to Meridian.
I'm sure restaurant owners want them, too. So, I just want to speak in favor of the city
planning for the future and building this dog park.
de Weerd: Thank you. Is there a hand up over there? Oh. That's a thumbs up. Okay.
Sorry. I don't have my glasses on, so -- any additional testimony? I don't think I can
use yours, Mr. Rountree, but thank you. Okay. Steve, would you like to wrap up this
segment and --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Before he does I would like to include our police department, since they are
where our animal shelter is currently housed and get an opinion on -- I'm certain we
know we need a new animal shelter, but do you have an opinion on whether this would
be a good location or not?
Basterrechea: Well, obviously, our biggest concern is we do want our -- our Bark Park
back for our K9 training. We have a K9 school going on right now with the officers from
throughout the valley and it's causing a bigger inconvenience for the people that utilize
the dog park as it is, because we have had to close it down for the entire week at times
to facilitate that training. As far as the shelter, yes, we need a new shelter. I think as far
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as whether the Borup property is the appropriate property, I think I will leave that up to
the task force and the people who have actually done that research and are going to
utilize the park. Our biggest concern is that we find a good location, a location that's
going to be safe for everybody and that could be monitored.
Zaremba: Thank you.
de Weerd: That was a nice political answer. Oh, yeah, you're our media spokesperson.
Good job. Okay. Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor. So, we have tried to look at options out here at
the site and look at it as a possible site for the dog park. You heard from both sides,
those in favor, those against. In terms of what we are looking for -- looking to get from
the Council tonight, we would specifically like to know if the Council supports the idea of
a dog park on the Borup property. If so, then, the dog park task force can target their
fundraising efforts towards that site. Second, we would like to know if the Council
supports the animal shelter being considered at this site in the future or whether you
accepted the recommendation of the Commission to remove it from the concept. And,
then, based on those two main issues, whether you support the build all concept plan
guiding our decisions and considerations for this property moving forward. On the
specific issue of the rodeo versus ball fields in the concept, given -- we are not
expecting a decision tonight on that issue. However, if you feel to give us guidance I
would certainly accept that, but given that the rodeo just received its Conditional Use
Permit for increased use this fall, it seemed premature or unfair to force that decision
until they have had a chance to show what kind of fundraising they can do and bring a
proposal back to the city. So, with that Iwould -- we definitely do have a need for ball
fields as we discussed in our presentations during budget process this spring, we were
maxed out with the growth in our -- in our softball program, but, again, we are not trying
to force that decision tonight. We would, however, really like a decision on the dog park
and the animal shelter, so that we know whether the dog park task force can move
forward with fundraising. And with that I would stand for any questions.
de Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Steve, I just want it clear in the record -- and you
have said it several times in your final comments, that you're desiring some action on
the part of the Council, so the dog park committee can move forward with fundraising
and I understand what that means, but just for clarification is it -- and I think it somewhat
was Mr. Beehler's question, that they have spent a lot of money out there. Is the city
going to spend a lot of money on the dog park and my understanding is it's going to be
a volunteer effort and fundraising by the dog park task force.
Siddoway: Right now there are no funds allocated in the city budget toward the dog
park. Any funds that would go towards it would have to be part of a future conversation.
It is something that they are trying to fundraise for as a volunteer effort and it's my
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November 16, 2010
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understanding that the city would not be contributing toward the rodeo grounds, but I
would seek any direction that you would have for me on that as well.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, another question for Steve. I know the rodeo folks have
spent considerable time and money to get the Conditional Use Permit out there and
since this is not part of the city it would -- the dog park, if it were to move forward, would
have to go through the same process. Has anybody looked at -- and maybe Pete can
answer this question -- the applicability of the county ordinances and certainly they
would have to go through something similar or would it or would it not be allowed?
Because I certainly don't want to move forward on something that's not allowed in the
county.
Friedman: Madam Mayor, Council, Council Member Rountree, I really can't speak to
that at this time. I would be happy to look into it. My -- my gut feeling is that a public
facility like that probably would require a conditional use in the county, but I would want
to verify that. That would be easy enough for me to do tomorrow morning. Unless
Steve has already done it.
Rountree: Has Steve done it?
Siddoway: I can answer that.
de Weerd: Thank you for raising your hand.
Rountree: I didn't want you to have to talk if you --
Siddoway: I appreciate that. We did, actually, hold apre-application meeting with Ada
County Development Services in March of this year as we were getting underway with
this effort and they did inform us that the dog park use, if it were developed while still in
the county, would be a conditional use and require a master site plan.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
de Weerd: Other questions from Council? And, Council, I guess just to clarify, in front
of you are three different concept plans and I think Steve's question about any of this --
because the dog park facility is part of each of those concept plans, the dog park task
force can move forward with your nod on any and all of these three, because it would
give them something that they can seek fundraising for. So, I guess I would look for
your direction to our director and how you desire him to move forward with these.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I will venture an opinion. Certainly the current Bark Park has clearly
demonstrated the need for a bigger and better facility and located elsewhere. We look
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November 16, 2010
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at this piece of property that the city does own and I believe was -- when the city
acquired it there was a condition that it be used for recreation, a park of some sort. So,
to answer one question, it will be a park of one thing or another. We certainly have a
need for a dog park and I still support the need for co-locating the animal shelter. One
of the suggestions has been put it somewhere else and I sit and think, well, where else?
We don't own any other underutilized property anywhere. There is a 70 acre future park
site on the south end of the city, but we have no plan to go there or any facilities there.
Yet it -- other than owning it it's not in the budget and I believe we have a lease back
arrangement with a farmer who plans to actually provide the city with some income on
that property for awhile. So, I would not choose that as an alternative. My feeling is
that of the possible solutions, this is the best one. I also agree with the thought that if
you split it up into little acres you -- little acre or half acre parks, fundraising is a problem
and the opportunity to have a larger portion of a dog park, such as proposed here,
opens the opportunity for commercial sponsorships and I have no problem if some
commercial companies that have related activities were allowed to put a sign up there
and say they were one of the sponsors. That's appropriate to me. And that one
enabled the task force to do their fundraising and the animal shelter people as well. So,
my first instinct is to say I appreciate the work and thought that's been put into this.
come down on the side of saying I don't see anywhere else to put this, except here, and
the need has been highly demonstrated. So, I'm certainly in favor of the dog park. The
discussion about what happens with the rest of the property, I'm happy that the rodeo
has been using that facility already. I understand that they would like to make long-term
plans. That is a piece that in balancing that against whether it should be softball fields,
we have a serious need for that as well, but I would like to give the Lion's time to do a
development plan for what else would happen there and -- and what raising they could
do as well and see how it could be used more thoroughly and before I said no I would
certainly want to know what was possible, because that to me is as good a use as ball
parks. If they can do it that's fine with me. So, I guess what I'm saying is I would be
supportive of concept A.
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, just my comments for Steve and staff. Let me address the
animal shelter first. There certainly is a need to do something new, that's -- Connie's
made that clear and convincingly. Not going to happen anytime soon. But do we locate
an animal shelter at that particular location -- and here is my philosophy on how I view
that. It is very difficult to acquire open space for parks, large chunks, large parcels, and
when the opportunity comes along we do it and as we saw here a few years back, it
was very expensive to do and the city did not do a lot of that. We have had an
opportunity to pick up another large parcel, because the price was right and we are
looking out 20 years, 30 years down the road. Because it's so hard to acquire large
parcels of ground, I'm more in favor of having an animal shelter that can go in any other
site, as opposed to a large open parcel for parks, just because it is so hard to acquire.
It's a little easier to find a two acre parcel in an appropriately zoned area for an animal
shelter than it is, you know, 30, 40, 50 acres at a chunk for a park use and so I'm not
necessarily opposed to putting the animal shelter there, but I just don't see it as the
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highest and best use when you're acquiring park property and so that's -- that's how I
see that. I prefer it not be part of this Borup property and we can work on an animal
shelter down the road in looking at other alternatives and those are options. One of the
things that we have to look at, Council -- I have only been on here for a couple of years
now, but the time frame of what we look at is much longer than what about right now.
What do we need right now. We are demand driven. I mean when our parks and
recreation committee -- and I have had the privilege of serving as the liaison this past
year and there are things that come up and people want this activity. People want a
bigger dog park. There is a need for that. There is a need for that. People want Bocce
Ball. And so now the parks department is working on Bocce Ball, where do we find --
how do we put that in, where can we do that, is it compatible, all the processes. So, we
do respond to the need that's out there, because our citizens want certain things from
their parks and we try to respond to that and I think that's a good thing. And at the
same time we have to look at is that something that's going to be -- if we are going to
invest a lot of dollars -- in this case it's just bare ground and as has been pointed out,
this is going to be a fundraising venture by the dog park folks, where are we going to go
with this particular site, what is that site going to look like ten years, 15 years, 20 years
down the road? I mean we understand there is plans for a state highway, what does
that do to that area, what changes comes about as we try to look to a time when none
of us are going to be up here, but there is a future group of people -- are we laying the
groundwork well enough for those folks to continue moving forward. So, a park at the
edge of the city right now in a rural area may seem -- well, why are you doing that?
Well, we had the opportunity to purchase -- get some land that we are going to need in
the future, because some day that area will change and does a dog park fit that site
right now? It may look a little interesting out there in the middle of nowhere, but down
the road that can be right in the middle of a lot of activity where there is a lot of building,
where there is a lot of people and it's not going to be a long drive from city center,
because the city has filled to capacity when that -- when that thing is fully developed.
And there even may be a need for that -- another ten acre site out at the 77 acre parcel,
but that's, again, down the road and we cross that bridge when we come to it. So, for
the dog park, yes, I see it fitting out there. I can see it working. I can see the
fundraising moving forward. Don't know how long it's going to take. I mean we all know
what the economy is like, it's difficult, but never underestimate dog owners, that's for
sure. So, I see for animal shelter, given my reason and, then, for the dog park Isee --
see that going there. The rodeo grounds, just to address, I think the Lion's Club is doing
great work. They need an opportunity to move forward with what they have out there to
see what they can develop. Again, we are demand driven.. Is there a need for ball
parks? Absolutely. But it's not going to happen in the next two years, three years for
that park. I mean we areaways from that and I think that gives the Lion's Club an
opportunity to develop and show that, hey, this is something we are committed to long
term. Again, when we look out ten years from now, you know, I didn't want to ask Doug
or ask Mark, you know, are you guys going to be doing the rodeo ten years from now,
because we probably don't know. tt may be in terms of fundraising there is something --
abetter idea that fits the area at that time, but for the time being it's viable for the Lion's
Club, it benefits the community, and we have the ability to provide that space for this
period of time and, then, when we or anybody else sitting up here can sit down and look
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
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at it, say, okay, what is the demand today and we don't know. So, that one's just going
to kind of ride its wave and we will see where that goes down the road and I think that's
good and I think we can benefit from that by the Lion's Club using that time and that
facility out there. So, I guess that's the three things I wanted to address and that's how I
see it I now, so hope that helps.
de Weerd: Mr. Bird?
Bird: No.
de Weerd: You're leaning forward. Thought maybe you might have something to say.
Bird: Regarding the property out there, I can go along with concept A, because
believe the Lion' Club is certainly deserving of seeing what they can do out there.
Hopefully, they can use the facility more than just one weekend, which I'm sure they
would. The dog park going out there, the facility I probably feel different than most
people. I think as far as the city of Meridian, we need to go to the Idaho Humane
Society and say, you know, we spend this much a year on animal control, why don't we
budget that and give it to you and let you run it and maybe that facility out there for the
Idaho Humane Society or that location isn't the right location. I'm sure they could use
something in northwest part of Ada County or the west part of Ada County. I think it
solves a problem. They are more adapt at handling stray dogs. I don't think we can find
anybody that will handle stray cats hardly, but -- and I think it solves a problem for us.
We are not going to find too many Brenda's that's going to take care of animals like is
being taken care of now. So, that would be mine. And as far as the concept, concept
A, I would -- I would like to see the park -- the dog park come back so that we could
maintain that roadway through or that -- through Mr. and Mrs. Anderson's property, if
they so desire to, for the rodeo grounds. I'm not sure we need seven acres at this time
I'm sure that's probably only knocking it down to five and a half or six acres. That would
be my thoughts on it, but as far as the humane shelter, I think we need to -- I think we
need to get in discussions with the Idaho Humane Society and see if they won't kind of
help take it over and we can spend our yearly budget to them. That would be my
thought.
de Weerd: Okay. Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: A couple comments. Not necessarily pertaining to the concept, but some of
the ideas that were brought forward. Off leash ordinances I do not believe is a silver
bullet in this instance. Definitely Fuller Park nor Settlers Park are the answer. And, by
the way, everybody in the district pays for those, not just the outliers, so all of the city of
Meridian residents also have a tax increment in their property tax that supports that
entity. Having said that, I believe that we have to honor the commitment we have made
and the commitment made by Lion's Club. They have been working a number of years
there trying to get some kind of a long-term approach to use the area from the county
and they have finally done that. Certainly I trust that they can continue that commitment
and make that work. So, I believe that should be something in the concept. With
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respect to the dog park, I have serious reservations. It's not because of the dogs and
it's not because of task force, because I think they are very well intended and their
optimism reigns. But we in Meridian have seen that optimism in a number of
partnerships that we have entered into, only to have those things fizzle and have the
folks that are expecting things to happen see the unintended consequences of the lack
of the continued volunteer effort. I believe, however, this group of folks, having
demonstrated what they have done at the animal shelter and folks that are associated
with the task force, have demonstrated significant commitment to that and to the city.
So, I'm going to have to trust what I see there and not necessarily let our past
experiences weigh in the decision that I might move forward with. I believe that the
concept on both parties, whether it be the Lion's Club and the rodeo and the dog park
folks -- and the dog park, we need to set some parameters, depending on how we move
forward and we need to see some activity and we need some action. I know that the
task force is -- has done some minor fundraising. I have seen that amount and I can tell
you right now that doesn't even start to pay for your Conditional Use Permit, let alone
the multi hundred thousands of dollars it's going to take to get something out there that
meets the vision that you have represented before us. I also would say that even
though the concept will be addressed tonight, I don't know quite what that's going to be,
but whatever it is is subject to change. We all know here that any park development out
there is going to be a long time coming, particularly from the city's perspective and
funding. We also all know that there is on the drawing board a four lane divided, high
speed, cross-county highway facility right adjacent to this property. All of these things
can result in change and having observed this area over the last 40 years, things
change rather hurriedly. So, again, we can get into the situation where we have unmet
expectations. So, however we move forward and whatever we decide in terms of
concept, we need that the parties involved understand that they are not granted acast-
in-concrete guarantee that what they are trying to move forward will happen or happen
in the way they envision today. It might be a little bit different in five or six or ten years.
With all that rambling I lost the final thought I had, Madam Mayor. Another senior
moment.
Zaremba: Did you comment on the shelter?
Rountree: Oh. Exactly. I think it's premature on the shelter. I know it's an issue. I'm
inclined to agree with Mr. Bird that there might be another solution out there within the
county. I'm not sure that each individual community in Ada County and, obviously,
Canyon county, can't figure out how to get it done. We will need to get our heads
together to figure out how we can solve the problem it's not the dogs, it's the
irresponsible owners and I don't know how you address that, but we do need to take
care of the animals.
de Weerd: I guess in response to that, there has been discussion with the Idaho
Humane Society and I guess it always comes back to the facility and who runs it, as
Councilman Bird pointed out. Certainly Connie with her leadership and the police
department have been in discussion, so I guess we can come back and have more in
depth conversation about the some of those options that have been talked about. I
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November 16, 2010
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guess it's about time, Connie, that we open that dialogue again. I guess -- yes, Mr.
Rountree.
Rountree: Do you want a motion, Madam Mayor, or is what we said sufficient for
Steve? What would you like?
de Weerd: I think he'd like more than what the discussion has been.
Rountree: Okay.
Siddoway: I would like a motion. I would just -- two quick final points if I might, Mayor.
Regarding the animal shelter, we did also talk with the county, just so you know, about
that. It's not possible for that to be developed on this site while it remains county
property. The setback requirements from property lines would be such that it would not
work here. So, even if it were on the table, it's off the table until it's annexed. And the
second point I wanted to make is Chairman Steele pointed out to me that -- to mention
that on this rodeo concept, if this site did get cut off, it does include this road on the side
to provide additional access to that rear area, just as a concept. And, again, as
Councilman Rountree suggested, it is a concept, which can change as they are refined.
But just wanted to point out that there was another way to access that. So, while we are
not asking you, necessarily, to pick between A, B and C, we are proposing that all three
would move forward, but all three do show the dog park and so we need some
clarification on -- on the dog park and on the animal shelter and, then, under any of
those scenarios the rodeo would continue their use of the property under their
Conditional Use Permit and we would anticipate a future conversation where we would
talk about the permanent decision for the rodeo.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Steve, quick question. The motion you're just looking for is
related to the dog park; is that correct?
Siddoway: Yes. I would like to know if the dog park task force could move forward with
fundraising for this site.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, I'd like to make a motion and, then, I want to see if I capture it
correctly here, and that motion is that the dog park be included in all concepts of the
Borup property as they are developed today and in the future.
de Weerd: That was the motion?
Hoaglun: Yes, it was, Madam Mayor.
de Weerd: We have a motion. Do I have a second?
Zaremba: I will second that.
de Weerd: Okay. Discussion?
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November 16, 2010
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Maker of the motion, does that include fundraising, no city money in the
development of it?
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Councilman Bird, it could. That was -- and I assume that it
would move forward as planned right now and as discussed tonight that the dog park
task force and volunteers would undertake fundraising to raise the funds for that
development of the dog park, but I would be happy to include that in the motion if you'd
like that.
Bird: I wished you would.
de Weerd: Mr. Bird, I guess we've -- we've never had that part of a concept plan and I
wouldn't ask that of the dog park task force at this point or of the rodeo to make those
kind of commitments. I do think that our parks department and our legal department
need to work on a proposal to bring back as far as funding goes. What is being
requested right now is the piece of the concepts that allow fundraising to commence,
because, then, that group has something solid to -- to go out and develop their vision.
don't think we have asked that of any group we have made an agreement or a
partnership with without having those discussions first. It seems premature.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I don't disagree, but I agree with Mr. Rountree, all these
partnerships that we have it seems like the partners are the city of Meridian taxpayers.
And that's -- that's the way every partnership we have had winds up and that's -- the
task force can do it. Maybe we are a little premature to put it in the motion, but, you
know --
de Weerd: I guess, Mr. Bird --
Bird: I'm tired of our taxpayers being the partners.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: I would say -- before I recognize Mr. Zaremba -- that these are our
taxpayers and our other partnerships have been as well and I think that the City Council
recognized that. So, again, that's why I would like to maybe separate this and ask legal
and our parks department to sit down with the groups involved and see what they can
bring back before you move forward. This, again, is just a concept plan, so -- Mr.
Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was going to comment, as the seconder of the current motion, the city has
owned this property for some time. It is not contiguous to any city limit. It is not
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November 16, 2010
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currently on our facilities plan to serve it with water or sewer. And while I support the
idea that the opportunity is here to place the dog park there, I have not contemplated
that the city would be spending any money on this property for maybe another ten years
and in support what I believe Councilman Rountree and Councilman Bird are saying, I'm
comfortable saying that if this needs to move forward now, the adequate need to do the
fundraising and not have it be at a cost to the city until the city is ready and the city
wouldn't be ready until there is a pathway to annex it and a way to provide water and
sewer.
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba, I will point out it is in your capital improvement plan. So,
would agree that if there was an escalated use to it -- unless Council decided otherwise,
that would be -- and I think the task force mentioned phasing. So, again, what that all
means and what it looks like, I think needs more detail and probably not deciding on the
bench right now, but asking that to come back in front of you for more detailed
conversation when you know what we are going to be discussing, so -- and it is in your
capital improvement plan within the next five years, at least the beginning part of it. So,
I --
Zaremba: That's true.
de Weerd: -- just thought I'd point that out
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, yeah, it is and I think it's four years from now is when the first
one comes about to -- for funds to be used for capital improvement at Borup property, if
I recall that correct, Steve. Four years?
Siddoway: What I recall is it shows 2013 as the year for plans and construction
documents and 2014 as the year to begin construction. But, as we all know, even that
is contingent on annexations and utilities, things like that.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor. Just -- my motion was to lay the groundwork that any concept
plans developed for this property include the dog park. I would be happy to include in
that motion that the dog park task force and volunteers are encouraged to begin
fundraising to develop the park. I don't think we can require. We can't mandate, we
can't -- but the recognition is that's where the money is going to come from. If they want
an adequate dog park, they are going to have to start that process and make it happen,
because right now we don't have it and I don't see much in the foreseeable future,
looking at our finances. So, if you don't mind, let me -- I will withdraw my first motion,
with consent of the second, and try -- try another one.
Zaremba: Second consents.
Hoaglun: Okay. Madam Mayor, shall we try it again?
Rountree: You want more discussion before you have another one?
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November 16, 2010
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de Weerd: You bet.
Hoaglun: Sure.
Rountree: Okay. If you don't now, you will later. I think we -- we have a long term
commitment and relationship with the rodeo and I think that motion just kind of leaves
them out in the cold. I think the motion should speak to both of the folks that have an
expectation of being able to use that area for what they envision it to be and what, in
one instance, it is. So, I would ask the maker of a new motion to consider a parallel with
the dog park and the rodeo and that staff and legal and these partners work out some
kind of -- it doesn't have to be a binding vehicle, but some kind of expectation that we all
can see -- are we looking at a desire to have the rodeo up and running full time, multiple
events in two years? Are we looking at having the dog park up and running in 18
months, two years, three years? Because if we don't, then, we are going to be looking
at new concepts.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, my response to that is you're just making this motion a lot
harder.
Rountree: That's why I did it.
Hoaglun: It is -- and I guess, Councilman Rountree, to ask further, are you looking at
when we have staff, legal, and the Lion's Club come together -- are we looking at -- and
for the dog park people, too, are we looking at a timeline to put some milestones out
there to say one year from now we will review fundraising and other efforts, that sort of
thing? I can leave it just at a -- develop atimeline --
Rountree: It's nebulous.
Hoaglun: -- and let the parties work that out of what that's going to be, I think might be
the best thing.
Rountree: So they have some goals to accomplish.
Hoaglun: Okay. Okay. All right. Are we ready?
de Weerd: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: We will try this again, Madam Mayor. I move that the dog park be included in
all concepts of the development of Borup property and that the dog park task force and
volunteers be encouraged to begin fundraising to develop a dog park and that staff,
legal, and the Lion' Club, along with the dog park task force develop a timeline and
milestones to show progress towards meeting our develop goals for that property.
Rountree: Did I hear the rodeo --
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 46 of 48
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, that motion -- when I said Lion's Club I meant the rodeo.
Rountree: Okay.
Hoaglun: Lion's Club rodeo, to be specific --
Rountree: Okay.
Hoaglun: -- for that motion.
Rountree: I'll second that.
de Weerd: Any discussion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would like to comment that in my mind that does not preclude the animal
shelter from still considering that property, even if the plans that the other two make are
just to leave bare ground there awhile. When it does come to the point where we are
able to annex it and it meets our requirements, instead of the county setbacks, I would
still think that's a possible location. So, other than saying going ahead with it, I would
want to think that as this concept develops, perhaps we just leave a pad that's not
spoken for. It looks like Mr. Nary wishes to comment on that.
de Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I -- we are very creative in crafting what
your desire is, but I guess one of the things I want to be clear in trying to craft some of
these agreements that you're contemplating, you are not -- I think from what you're
saying is you're not asking or requiring that the city or either of these groups enter into
an agreement that the city is bound to, essentially, block out these parcels for any other
possibility.
Rountree: Correct.
Nary: If, for example, the Lion's Club came back in six months and said we have raised,
don't know, X millions of dollars, the city is still free to move forward with that concept
or, vice-versa, the dog park task force or the Treasure Valley -- or the Meridian Valley
Animal Shelter -- you're trying to leave as many options available for the city, but yet
give all of these groups the opportunity to continue to raise funds to use at least the
city's ground and commitment to allow that to go forward to be part of this agreement.
Am I understanding that's your intent?
de Weerd: That's a great summary.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 47 of 48
Nary: Okay.
Rountree: Good job, Bill.
Zaremba: Sounds good to me.
Nary: Thank you.
de Weerd: And we will see how good of a financial person Mr. Beehler is when he
brings millions of dollars to the table. I look forward to that, Doug.
Zaremba: Well, Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I think the message is go forward and develop more detail and more plans in
this direction. We are saying that we are not saying no to these things at the moment.
Go forward and bring us more information.
de Weerd: Okay. Are we ready for the vote? Madam Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Hoaglun, yea.
de Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
de Weerd: Thank you all for being here this evening and for your patience through our
discussions and providing testimony.
Siddoway: Thank you very much.
de Weerd: Thank you. We are at the end of our agenda.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
de Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Move we adjourn.
Zaremba: Second.
de Weerd: All those in favor`? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
November 16, 2010
Page 48 of 48
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:40 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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