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2005 05-05Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting May 5, 2005. The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of May 5, 2005, was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman David Zaremba. Members Present: Chairman David Zaremba, Commissioner Keith Borup, Commissioner Michael Rohm, Commissioner David Moe, and Commissioner Wendy Newton-Huckabay. Others Present: Bill Nary, Machelle Hill, Craig Hood, Bruce Freckleton, Joe Guenther, Josh Wilson, Mike Cole, and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance: Roll-call ___X___ Keith Borup ___X___ David Moe ___X___ Wendy Newton-Huckabay ___X___ Michael Rohm ___X__Chairman David Zaremba Zaremba: Good evening, everybody, and welcome to this regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for the 5th day of the 5th month of '05, otherwise, known as Cinco De Mayo. We will begin with a roll call of attendance. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: Zaremba: The first item on the agenda is adoption of the agenda and for the benefit of those here, I will mention we will take them in order, but just so you know, Item 6, 7 and 8, which apply to Bellingham Park, there has been a request to continue that to the May 19th meeting. That meeting is very full, so we are very likely to actually to continue that to June 2nd instead, but we will not discuss it tonight. Also Item 10, 11, and 12 relating to Pinebridge, there is also a request to continue those to get the ACHD results and, again, we will continue that one until June 2nd. Unless I hear otherwise, we will adopt the agenda and take those in order. Item 3: Consent Agenda: A. Approve Minutes of April 7, 2005 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting: Zaremba: Okay. The next item is the Consent Agenda, which consists of the minutes of meeting of April 7th, 2005. Does anybody have any comments on those? Rohm: I do not. Moe: I have no comment. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 2 of 32 Zaremba: Okay. I, actually, have one. Admittedly, I was not here that night, but in reading through them, on page 23, motion was taken on a vote regarding AZ 05-008 and the results are stated as being four ayes. Actually, Commissioner Moe had recused himself from the subject and I wasn't here, so the vote, actually, I would assume, should have been three ayes, one recused, and one absent. That's page 23. I have no other comment. Rohm: Okay. Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: I move that we approve the minutes as amended. End of motion. Borup: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second and let the record show, please, that Commissioner Borup has joined us. We are all here. We have a motion and a second. Those in favor may signify by saying aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4: Recommendation: VAC 05-004 Request for a Vacation of platted easements for Krispy Kreme Subdivision by Eagle-Fairview Investment Co., LLC – Lot 1 of the Krispy Kreme Subdivision: Zaremba: Okay. The next item on the agenda is a recommendation. That, actually, is not a Public Hearing, and we will discuss it, but we will not take comment from the general public. This is a recommendation to the City Council on VAC 05-004, request for a vacation of platted easements for Krispy Kreme Subdivision by Eagle-Fairview Investment Company, LLC, Lot 1 of the Krispy Kreme Subdivision. And we will begin with the staff report. Wilson: Thank you, Chairman Zaremba, Members of the Commission. The vacation before you is Krispy Kreme Subdivision at the southwest corner of Eagle and Fairview and zoned light industrial. The applicant has requested vacation of utility easements along the former boundary that would have been between Lots 1 and 3, as indicated by the dashed line there, and also along the former boundary of Lots 3 and 4. We do have notarized consent on file from all parties, all beneficiaries of the easements and other than that I don't have any staff comments. Zaremba: Okay. We have reviewed the packets. I can't remember on recommendations whether the applicant making remarks is in order or not. I believe we -- the applicant's made their case already and staff has presented it. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 3 of 32 Nary: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I mean unless he has anything else to add, yeah, you certainly can take action or make a recommendation based on that. Zaremba: Okay. Is the applicant here and care to say anything? Apparently not. Okay. Commissioners? Moe: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Moe. Moe: I move we forward to City Council approving VAC 05-004, with all staff comments of the hearing date of May 5th, 2005, received by the city clerk's office May 2nd, 2005. Rohm: Second. Zaremba: There is a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5: Recommendation: VAC 05-005 Request for a Vacation of a portion of a 20-foot utility easement between Lots 20 & 21, Block 1, Stokesberry Subdivision No. 2 by Properties West, Inc. – west of North Eagle Road and north of River Valley Street: Zaremba: Next is another recommendation. This is VAC 05-005, request for a vacation of a portion of a 20-foot utility easement that's between Lots 20 and 21, Block 1, of Stokesberry Subdivision No. 2 by Properties West, Inc., west of North Eagle Road and north of River Valley Street and, again, this is not a Public Hearing, but we will begin with staff comments. Wilson: Thank you, Chairman Zaremba, Members of the Commission. The subject vacation is in Stokesberry Subdivision No. 2 and is zoned light office, located generally on the west side of Eagle Road south of Ustick. The subject vacation is between Lots 20 and 21. The face of the plat did identify easements of -- they are ten feet on each side of the lot line, utility easements, and also an irrigation easement to benefit the business owners association. On this vacation we do have consent -- notarized consent on record from all beneficiaries of the easements, except for the business owners association and staff did include the condition in the report that notarized consent of relinquishment of that easement should be received before the City Council hearing. I do believe we have a slide here of the exact portion of the easement that is being vacated. That would be the shaded area there between Lots 20 and 21. And with that I'll end staff's comments. Zaremba: Okay. Any questions? Commissioners? Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 4 of 32 Newton-Huckabay: I have none. Zaremba: Does the applicant care to add anything? Okay. Moe: I would -- question. Is there going to be any problem getting the business owners association to relinquish? Just taking a little longer than you anticipated? Okay. Zaremba: The applicant is shaking his head, indicating no. Okay. No problem I mean. Okay. Gentlemen? Moe: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Moe. Moe: I move that we forward to City Council recommending approval of VAC 05-005, with all staff comments of the hearing date May 5th, 2005, received by the city clerk's office May 2nd, 2005. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Zaremba: We are now coming to items that are public hearings in this portion of our meeting and I will discuss a little bit our procedure for anybody that doesn't attend these meetings very often. Our professional staff and the applicant have, of course, spent a great deal of time together on each of these applications, so we begin our presentation with a presentation from our staff, indicating where the project is and what the project is and any issues that remain to be resolved. We follow that with a presentation from the applicant, who is free to respond to items the staff has brought up, make their own points, tell us anything we need to know. The applicant and any supporting members, like engineers, architects, et cetera, that join them have combined 15 minutes to make their presentation. After that we take testimony from the general public and each person has three minutes to speak and tell us how they feel about the project and things they think we ought to know. Then, at the end of that period, the applicant will again have another period of time, ten minutes, to respond to things that have been brought up during the Public Hearing, anything that further needs to clarify us -- be clarified for us. We do have a handy light system that we will keep you apprised of your time. When the green is on you have plenty of time. When it goes to yellow you should begin wrapping up, and when the red comes on that is the end of your allotted time and we appreciate people sticking to that, so that our meetings don't go to 1:00 o'clock in the morning. We do ask everybody, so that we can hear you, it's important enough that you came that we want to make sure that we hear you and that it gets on the record for Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 5 of 32 our recorder. So, please, only speak when you're at the microphone and when you begin start with your name and address for the record, please. Item 6: Continued Public Hearing from March 17, 2005: AZ 05-007 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 43.18 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Bellingham Park Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC – north of Amity Road and east of South Locust Grove Road: Item 7: Continued Public Hearing from March 17, 2005: PP 05-009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 166 building lots and 37 common lots on 43.18 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Bellingham Park Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC – north of Amity Road and east of South Locust Grove Road: Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from March 17, 2005: CUP 05-008 Request for a Planned Development consisting of 166 residential units with reductions to the minimum requirements for lot size, street frontage and yard setbacks for Bellingham Park Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC – north of Amity Road and east of South Locust Grove Road: Zaremba: And with that I will open public hearings for AZ 05-007, PP 05-009, and CUP 05-008 and mention again that we have a request to continue these to May 19th and I'm suggesting that we, actually, continue them to June 2nd. Guenther: Chairman Zaremba? Zaremba: Yes. Guenther: I'd like to make note to this file that Bellingham Park is one of the items that we have anticipated hearing on the 19th, which has made that hearing more full than it normally would be. We also have been discussing this matter with the applicant and we believe that tailing it out even further is just going to drag it out even farther. This will, on the May 19th hearing, have been exactly three months from the first original scheduling of this item and staff would like to definitely hear this on the 19th. Moe: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Moe. Moe: Reading through this a few times, I'm kind of curious. What has changed? Guenther: Everything. Moe: Okay. Are they doing the micro-path? Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 6 of 32 Guenther: They have submitted a proposal last Friday in order to give their best estimate of where the micro-path should lie. It does not follow staff's recommendation. And at this -- I think that this is something that we should have an applicant present before we actually hear anymore. I have not had the opportunity to make a full review of the file at this time and all I know that there is just outstanding issues that still need to be addressed. I anticipate getting you the complete staff report as soon as possible. Moe: And so you're confident that those issues can be taken care of for the hearing for the 19th? Guenther: Well, the applicant's main issues were the staff conditions of approval, which have partially been addressed, which I have to go through and redo conditions of approval, and so I'm not sure if they will be addressed before the 19th or not. I guess that's -- Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Zaremba: Excuse me one second. Technically, they would have to all be addressed, really, by the 9th, so that you have ten days to prepare everything, so -- Guenther: That is correct. Zaremba: Are you anticipating that you will have everything you need to have? Guenther: I don't know. We have made several requests to the applicant for information and I have received partial information to the file. Zaremba: I have 19 items already listed for May 19th and those are not among them. Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: That was my question is how many items and what are the nature for the meeting on the 19th. And, then, my second question is if they are not ready, are you going to -- are we going to continue it again? Rohm: I kind of think -- Guenther: At this point it's to the -- it's almost to the point where on the 19th I am preparing to either make findings for approval with the conditions as stated by staff in order to -- our best estimate of what it's going to take in order to give this site an approval and I'm toying with the idea of bringing in recommendation for denial and findings for the same and letting this board choose as -- at your direction. But it's all going to depend on if I get more information before the 9th or not. So, I guess I don't have a really good -- the longer you table it out, the more they are going to trickle information in is what I guess I can say. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 7 of 32 Zaremba: I know you're trying to move it along. My suggestion would be for us to continue it to the 2nd and with the comment to you that if you don't have all the materials ten days before that, you only prepare recommendation for denial. Guenther: We can do that, too. Moe: I would agree with that. Newton-Huckabay: I think that's fair. Zaremba: Do we have a consensus among Commissioners, that being the suggestion? Rohm: It works for me. Moe: Yes. Rohm: My personal feeling is whatever information he has as of that date prior to, he make his recommendation one way or the other. It doesn't -- it doesn't have to be an address of each and every issue, just where ever staff falls at the end of the disclosures, you make your recommendation based on that and, then, we will act on it, but to conclude, I think that it's safe to say that we are not going to continue this indefinitely and if, in fact, all conditions aren't addressed, more than likely we will move to deny. And that being said, I think we should continue it to the 2nd of June and we will give them that time and if it's not done, then, at that time we will conclude with a recommendation. Newton-Huckabay: Is that a motion? Moe: Is that a motion? Rohm: That's a motion. Zaremba: Is there a second? Moe: Second. Zaremba: Okay. It's moved and seconded to continue this until June 2nd, these three items. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9: Public Hearing: CUP 05-017 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to construct 7 office buildings in a previously approved Planned Unit Development of Lot 6, Block 1 of Resolution Subdivision No. 1 for Sagecrest Subdivision by Larry Sundell – south of East Overland Road and east of South Locust Grove Road: Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 8 of 32 Zaremba: Next on the agenda, Item 9. I will open the Public Hearing for CUP 05-017, request for a Conditional Use Permit to construct seven office buildings in a previously approved planned unit development of Lot 6, Block 1, of Resolution Subdivision No. 1 for Sagecrest Subdivision by Larry Sundell, south of East Overland Road and east of South Locust Grove Road, and we will begin with the staff comments. Hood: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. The applicant is requesting detailed Conditional Use Permit approval for seven office buildings in the L-O zone. The site is designated high density residential in the 2002 Comprehensive Plan. It is currently vacant. However, the parking lot has been improved on the site. This is an older aerial and you don't see the parking lot or the apartments that are just to the south of this site. This site is located on the south side of Overland Road, approximately 800 feet to the east of Locust Grove. To the north is the new movie theater and some other commercial businesses. To the south, again, there is the multi-family Sagecrest Apartments and Mountain View High School. To the east are some professional offices, also zoned L-O, and to the west on the corner of Overland and Locust Grove is currently vacant. This site includes Lots 1 through 9 and Lots 54 through 59 of Block 1 of Sagecrest Subdivision, which was recorded in 2004. With that approval five building lots were platted on the west side of the access drive here. The applicant is proposing three buildings. On the east side of that drive two buildings are platted -- or, excuse me, two lots are platted and the applicant is proposing one building. These buildings do not meet the setback requirements of the L-O zone and, therefore, the applicants -- I noted in the staff report -- either needs to re-subdivide, re-plat the property, excuse me, because the buildings do span across the property lines or show buildings -- additional buildings that meet those setback requirements of the zone. I would like to make note that I did not, in the staff report, include this building with that requirement. I did catch these three buildings that span across these five lot lines. We do need to modify that site specific condition or staff would request that you modify site specific condition number three to add a second sentence requiring the same for the building or buildings on Lots 54 and 55, that they either need to reduce the number of build-able lots or propose buildings that meet setbacks. So, basically -- Zaremba: Page six? Excuse me. Page six of your site-specific number there? Hood: I have it on page seven, Commissioner. I'm sorry. Page six. Yes. Zaremba: Okay. Hood: Number three. It might be worded the same as the first sentence, just changing the lots to read 54 and 55 and, then, the three before the or to a one -- or proposed buildings meet the same -- so that sentence is the same. I'm sorry I didn't scan in a picture of that -- the subdivision Sagecrest, but there are lot lines that run right through the middle of those buildings, so that's the request there of staff. The applicant has submitted detailed elevations for those and they are quite attractive buildings. There are four different -- four different types of buildings, some two story, and, then, the Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 9 of 32 single story here, an A, a B, a C, and a D on the seven lots. Combined a total of 20,566 square feet. I did talk with the applicant this week and we did discuss the buildings spanning across those lot lines and trying find some way to fix that problem, as well as asking him to get with SSC. I haven't followed up with them about SSC or where they stand. There were some dumpster issues there and I may ask him to address that before you tonight. But I think those were the two main things with this application. With that I will stand for any questions you may have. Zaremba: Commissioners, any questions? Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant care to come forward? Sundell: My name is Larry Sundell, I'm the architect for the owner of the property Edge, LLC, and I have received the staff's report and I agree with all of the findings of fact. The first item that I would like to address, though, is the waste enclosure. We have located two dumpsters on the site. I was unable to locate Bill Gregory or his assistant Steve. Bill Gregory is currently on vacation, I believe, in Hawaii and won't be back for awhile and Steve was gone until Friday. I do not believe that to be an issue, in that we have located dumpsters at each end of the project and I just could not currently get them to sign off on it, so we would do that for the meeting of the Commissioners. The second issue, which is the property lines, we choose to do the development as it's presented here and would go through the process of changing those property lines and will do whatever is necessary to go in that direction. Though, it is very timely -- or time consuming, we would go in that direction. There are no easements in any of these areas and the owner had purchased a property that was currently rezoned to do office buildings, but in each of these areas they became very small office buildings, in the neighborhood of 1,000 to 1,200 square feet each and it just was not economical to build seven little tiny office buildings and so he wished to consolidate those into larger buildings. So, we are in the agreement with the staff findings. Zaremba: Thank you. Commissioners, any questions? We have been given a note from Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District responding that they want you to apply to them for a land use change application, since they think that's going to change the Cook's Lateral or something. Are you aware of that note? Sundell: I am not, but could you repeat that? That they -- a land use change? Zaremba: I can give you a copy of it. Land use change application. It was sent to the city clerk and received on May 2nd. Sundell: This project is a development of a previously approved larger conceptual Conditional Use Permit, so at that point, which was approximately -- I'm not sure of the time, but let's say two years ago, that was approved to be offices, as a larger total development of a very large area. It had two sections of commercial offices and, then, an apartment complex. So, I find this surprising, but we will answer that. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 10 of 32 Zaremba: The city would be in agreement with you. The city agrees that that has happened. Sundell: Okay. Zaremba: I think Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District is just coming up to speed on it, so - - Sundell: I got you. Okay. Zaremba: -- they are asking you to let them know that it's not farmland anymore. Sundell: We will do that. Zaremba: I think. And a question for staff. Do we need to make that one of our conditions or is that entirely a separate operation? Hood: Mr. Chairman, this is their standard letter for all development applications they send. They have added that last -- second to the last sentence specific to this project, the Cook Lateral, but they do just send this out and say if you are changing land use, you need to apply through the district. So, pretty standard. Zaremba: And while you're here, one other question and I will kind of toss this back and forth between you and staff as well. On the east end of the project is there any thought of making that a cross-access into what will be the project east of it? We try and make things that connect, so that we don't actually -- Sundell: Actually, we would like to do that, because the current owner of this is also the owner of the adjacent property. Zaremba: Would that be acceptable to staff? Hood: Mr. Chair, that would be acceptable on -- I was just going to point out that that has been developed already and there is an existing sales office for Corey Barton Homes right there, but we would have no problem with that, just it had already been developed and getting the cross-access from that parcel to this one -- we will probably never see another development application there and so it could be -- but, no, no problems with doing that. No. That's encouraged. Sundell: It would simply eliminate two or three parking places, but in all reality, it would -- for this particular owner, it would make the total larger project flow and would be of benefit to him. Zaremba: Do we need to do something to enable that? Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 11 of 32 Hood: Mr. Chair, if that came in within their building -- first building permit out there, I'll be reviewing that certificate of zoning compliance and I have no problem with them improving that drive aisle all the way over to the property line with that plan of extending that, so I don't think any motion needs to be made on this. We can allow them to do that, pave it right to the property line. Zaremba: Sounds good to me. Commissioners, any other questions? Borup: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, on the lot line, does the applicant need to file a new subdivision plat or lot line adjustments or -- Hood: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, the -- I did briefly touch on that in the staff report. Currently it is a new subdivision application. We are, however, proposing in the new UDC to have a lot line adjustment application for a -- to reduce the number of build-able lots. We just don't have that mechanism today. The only mechanism is a plat. So, I would encourage the applicant just to wait a couple three months, hopefully, and we will have that staff level ability to actually remove lot lines. But right now we don't, so -- Borup: I take it that's what your preference is, is wait and -- Sundell: Well, I would like to not impact the project negatively, okay? But there is a time line that I was prepared to go through to show you what we have gone through to get to this far and what we have to go through in order to achieve the results in the end. I wouldn't mind. Borup: I think what Mr. Hood was alluding to is that the city recognizes on these type of commercial and office projects that when it comes in you don't know what's going to necessarily going to be built and developed. Sundell: That's right. Borup: So, the new ordinance he's talking about would enable staff to do those lot line adjustments, eliminate a public hearing, and -- but that's not in effect yet, is the problem. Sundell: I have been in contact with staff about that. Borup: So, the question is, then, are you preferable to wait until that passes or proceed ahead with a new plat? Isn't that the two choices? Sundell: Those are the two choices. Currently in time we would be wise to wait for the lot line adjustment law or mechanism to be passed and if we were to plat it, it would be an additional three months beyond that, so in time line that's our shortest avenue. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 12 of 32 Borup: Okay. Well, I think that's what the city's trying to do is make things like this where it makes sense, just to make it easier. You will probably be the first one to use that. I don't know. Sundell: I would like to go through my time line, if you wouldn't mind. Zaremba: Sure. Thank you. Sundell: We raced to get the project completed and into -- for a hearing on February 15th and we did achieve that goal and all of the drawings and requirements were met at that time. It's now May 5th that we are being heard. So, it's a little frustrating on the side of the developer just to be heard and I understand Meridian is growing and there is six hearings per time, but it seems like an exaggerated time line on our side. So, now it's May 5th and this goes, then, to the county commissioners that would be on June 6th -- 7th. And, then, they have a ten day appeal and, then, if we do -- redo our platting, it's approximately five to six months and if we do the lot line adjustment wait, that's three months. So, we have, essentially, drug what was a project that was part of a larger conceptual conditional use plan, that was planned for offices to be here and it's now in the nine -- approximately nine month time line on the developed side. It's frustrating and I just wanted to express that. Thank you. Zaremba: Thank you. Borup: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Borup. Borup: And I think we empathize with that, but the fact is this was a platted subdivision with platted lots and you chose to develop it such that you had buildings crossing those lot lines and so that was a conscious choice -- Sundell: That's correct. And you are right in that. The owner purchased it and you just get what you get. I understand that, so take it into account. Thank you. Zaremba: Thank you. Let's see. Let me ask staff a question that displays my ignorance if I can. At what point is the certificate of zoning compliance important? Is that before anything breaks ground or is it before occupancy? Hood: No. It's before anything breaks ground. It's actually number two, I believe, on the building department's requirement for me to stamp the plan from the Planning and Zoning Department, saying that the buildings comply with setbacks and that they are proposing landing, parking, and those things, so -- Zaremba: So, this does have to be done first. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 13 of 32 Hood: Yeah. And those two little buildings -- now, the three on the north side of this could be -- there could -- after four weeks with or whenever the City Council gets to this, the applicant could turn around and submit a certificate of zoning compliance for the northerly three buildings as shown, so -- Zaremba: Thank you. Thank you. Sundell: There is a small error in that small, but because on lot -- Building A also is divided in half. It doesn't matter. Zaremba: We will assume you understand the process of needing to fix them all. Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for the applicant. Why would it take an extended period of time to do a re-plat? I'm a little curious. Sundell: I would have to defer to staff for that, because that's what I was told and I went to the engineers about that and they said it's a very complicated process. I don't know that process, so I would have to ask staff that question. Rohm: Okay. Borup: I assuming that you're talking about the time line. They submitted this February 15th and it's going to be, what, June before it hits City Council already? Hood: Yeah. Average -- I'm sorry. Machelle may be able to help me out, but turn around from Planning and Zoning to City Council is about four weeks, so before it gets to the City Council -- and I believe that's maybe what Mr. Sundell was referring to, not the county commissioners, but the City Council action on this being approximately four more weeks. Rohm: Well, four weeks is better than three months. Borup: No. But he's got to resubmit a new application, so it would be like going clear back to February. Sundell: Correct. Rohm: Yeah. I think that, really, the ball's in your court to decide which way you want to go. If you want to take the -- Sundell: We have to take the -- it's our choice to take the shortest time line process and that would be, my understanding, to wait for the lot line adjustment law to be passed. Rohm: And that's -- Sundell: And that's not a guarantee. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 14 of 32 Rohm: That is not a known date certain and -- I don't believe it's a known date certain, anyway. Maybe it is. Zaremba: If it's not, it will go before the City Council and assuming how many -- whether or not they have to continue their hearings to get all the public testimony or not, I -- the City Council is as interested as we are on having some of these changes. I mean this is one of the examples of why the ordinance needs to be changed. What you're asking for is something that we desire to have happen also -- Sundell: I was aware of that. Zaremba: -- to make that process easier and, unfortunately, you're caught right in the shift between ordinances here, but I would assume the City Council has no reason to prolong it, assuming they don't get heavy objections from the general public and based on the response that we got, which was mostly positive, I would expect it to go through fairly quickly. Borup: I agree. Zaremba: That's just a personal opinion. Sundell: I'm not sure if that question was answered, but -- Rohm: Yeah. I'm satisfied. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Sundell: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: I was just thinking that we were debating something that we really didn't need to debate that point. I think Mr. Sundell's made a decision. Zaremba: Okay. Works for me. Let's see. Nobody else was signed up to speak on this issue, but here is an opportunity, if anybody wishes to. Okay. Apparently we have heard from all the public, in which case Mr. Sundell doesn't need a rebuttal to having had no comments. Commissioners, further questions, discussions, motions? Close the Public Hearing? Borup: I did have a question. Or we could close the Public Hearing also. Zaremba: Commissioner Borup. Borup: That's just clarification on -- on that change. Mr. Hood said Lot 54 and 55. I didn't hear the block number. And does that also affect -- does that take care of the Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 15 of 32 northern -- and we don't have an overlay, so on my plat is doesn't look like it affects Building A-1, but -- Hood: Mr. Chair, Commissioner Borup, I did miss that side. Everything on the east side of that drive aisle -- there are four platted lots there. The two buildings that are shown, those are Lots 57 and 58, all of Block 1. So, 54, 55, 57 and 58 of Block 1: Borup: Okay. The little plat you gave us does not show that many lots. Okay. That's good enough. I just saw it. Hood: I'm sorry, I missed that and I apologize to the applicant as well for missing those four platted and the two buildings. Borup: Okay. So, the one that's in the application, that lot to the south, is also divided in half? Hood: Correct. Borup: And those are 54 and 55? Hood: Yes. Borup: And 57 and 58? Hood: And 57 and 58. Yes. Borup: Block 1. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I move we close the Public Hearing. Moe: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? The Public Hearing is closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Zaremba: Commissioner Borup, you appear to be prepared to -- Borup: Oh, I was just prepared to close. Zaremba: -- make the motion. Borup: Okay. I don't have this rewritten, but I'll try. Mr. Chairman, I move that we forward to City Council recommending approval of -- maybe I'm not ready. Of CUP 05- 017, which is a Conditional Use Permit for development of Sagecrest Subdivision, to include all staff comments and conditions of the staff memo dated April 28th for the May 5th hearing, with the addition of paragraph three on page six, to add to the first sentence, after -- I think that's a question, Mr. Hood. Your staff report says -- your Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 16 of 32 comments say five, six, seven and eight of Block 1, and, then, you said 56 -- or 54 and 55 of also Block 1? Hood: Correct. Borup: With a -- okay. That's a private street. Hood: There is a drive aisle and all of this was a larger subdivision of those -- Borup: It's a drive aisle, then, for -- Hood: Correct. It's a private drive. Borup: Okay. To add to that -- to also add that Lots 54, 55 -- I can't read my own writing now -- 58, 59 -- Lot 54, 55 and Lots 57 and 58 on Block 1. Did I get the right numbers there? Moe: Yes. Zaremba: May I ask our attorney a question. Since everybody understands what we are trying to do and the applicant, essentially, has agreed to move forward in some fashion to solve this problem, do we need to get all of these numbers down or can we simply say the requirement is to make the lots conform to the buildings, so that no building is across a lot line? Nary: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, the staff is going to prepare the draft findings for the Council. You probably want to -- if Mr. Hood feels he has enough information to prepare the findings, that the Commission is in agreement with the staff's recommendation and the comments that have been made by the applicant, if he feels there is enough information and there is transcribe-able record from it, I think that, certainly, you don't have to make sure you don't miss a number here, I think you will be fine. But at least make sure Mr. Hood's comfortable with that. Borup: I think the numbers were down and the motion was over. Zaremba: Okay. Moe: Second. Zaremba: All right. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 10: Public Hearing: AZ 05-013 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 120.15 acres from R1, RUT, C-G and I-L zones to C-G, I-L and L-O zones Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 17 of 32 for Pinebridge Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. – east of North Locust Grove Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Item 11: Public Hearing: PP 05-015 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 55 building lots and 7 other lots on 120.15 acres in proposed C-G, I-L and L- O zones for Pinebridge Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. – east of North Locust Grove Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 05-020 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for commercial / office / industrial and multi-family uses in proposed C-G, I-L and L-O zones for Pinebridge Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. – east of North Locust Grove Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Zaremba: Okay. At this time I will open the Public Hearing for Items 10, 11 and 12. This is AZ 05-013, PP 05-015, and CUP 05-020, all relating to Pinebridge Subdivision and, again, we have a request from the applicant to delay this to either our meeting of May 19th or June 2nd and I'm proposing that we chose the June 2nd date. Comments from the Commissioners? Rohm: June 2nd sounds good to me. Borup: I'm assuming that's based on the 19th is full. Zaremba: The 19th is pretty full and part of the reason for delaying this one is that ACHD has not acted yet and both the applicant and I'm sure staff and Commissioners would like to see the results of the ACHD. Rohm: With that being said, Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: I move that we continue Items 10, 11 and 12 of our agenda to the regularly scheduled P&Z meeting of June 2nd, 2005. End of motion. Moe: Do you not need to call off -- Rohm: I just said Items 10, 11 and 12, but I can read the items. AZ 05-013, PP 05-15, and CUP 05-020. Moe: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 18 of 32 Item 13: Public Hearing: CUP 05-016 Request for a Conditional Use Permit / Planned Development for two buildings on one lot in an I-L zone for Ferguson Enterprises by Ferguson Enterprises, Inc. – north of East Franklin Road and west of Nola Road: Zaremba: Moving right along. I'd like to open the Public Hearing for Item 13. This is CUP 05-016, request for a Conditional Use Permit planned development for two buildings on one lot in an I-L zone for Ferguson Enterprises by Ferguson Enterprises, Inc., north of East Franklin Road and west of Nola Road and we will begin with the staff report. Wilson: Thank you, Chairman Zaremba, Members of the Commission. Ferguson Enterprises has submitted a Conditional Use Permit application for a planned development for two buildings on one lot. It began with staff comments when a certificate of zoning compliance application was submitted that showed two lots -- or two buildings on one lot and, unfortunately, we had to make the applicant aware that Meridian City Code only allows one principal building per lot, except in the case of a planned development. So, the subject Conditional Use Permit is before you. The property is located directly to the south of the recent Nola Subdivision, on the west side of Nola Road, just south of the Pine Avenue and north of Franklin. Also bounded on the east by the future Locust Grove extension. Our department did issue a certificate of zoning compliance for the northernmost -- for the top building on the plan here, the northernmost building, and, then, did inform them that they needed to get their planned development for their southern most building on the lower portion of the lot there. The applicant has proposed a ten-foot landscape buffer on Nola Road, which complies with the Meridian City Code and a 25-foot landscape buffer on the future Locust Grove extension, which also complies with Meridian City Code. The planned development section of Meridian City Code does require that the applicant provide two amenities. The applicant has provided ten percent landscaped open space. Meridian Code does require that that is above and beyond the required street buffers or land use buffers and it is, so that qualifies as the first amenity. The applicant did not propose a second amenity. Staff recommended -- staff -- staff has recommended condition of approval number one that the applicant provide a second amenity in accordance with the code and that's on -- that's on page five of the staff report. Staff does recommend that a seating area or -- in past cases the Commission and Council have approved a simple bench or, you know, small seating area for customers or employees to use, that that would be an appropriate second amenity. Other outstanding issues. The Comprehensive Plan does -- and if you will recall this issue from Nola Subdivision that was heard a couple months ago, the Comprehensive Plan does designate a multi-use pathway along the west side of this property, because the Nola Road crossing of the railroad tracks is going away, staff has, effectively, made a decision to move that multi- use pathway to Locust Grove where a new railroad crossing will be gained. In the Nola Subdivision, it was determined that the seven foot sidewalk provided in ACHD's design plans is sufficient to serve as a de facto multi-use pathway and we would feel the same way about this application. In discussions with Director Canning, ACHD is not really Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 19 of 32 open to the widening of that sidewalk at this point, to meet the ten-foot that we would like to see, because the design of that -- of that road extension is so far along. So, we do feel that the seven-foot will function as a connection to the multi-use pathway system. Another outstanding issue. The fire department in our department -- in our department comments meeting did have a strong desire that this property be addressed off of Locust Grove once the Locust Grove extension is completed. In discussions with the applicant's representative on the phone, I believe that's the applicant's preference as well. The applicant did mention that they would like to initially address it off of Locust Grove to eliminate the changing of the address from Nola Road to Locust Grove. In discussions with Public Works Department that isn't possible. The road has to exist in order for this property to be addressed off of it. So, at the time of construction, if it proceeds, that Locust Grove extension, it will have to address off of Nola and, then, it would be the applicant's decision to change to Locust Grove at their cost and, obviously, considerable difficulty of changing the address of a business. The staff would like the applicant to address the number of vehicles that will be used in the conduct of the business. They have provided parking that would be sufficient for the required parking per square footage of the buildings and, then, 15 vehicles to be used in the business and we don't anticipate that the business would exceed 15 vehicles, so we feel that parking is more than likely adequate, but we would just like some confirmation on that tonight. With that, I will end staff's comments and accept any questions. Zaremba: Commissioners, questions? Moe: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, I'm just curious, is there a time line on the Locust Grove extension as to when they are going to start? Newton-Huckabay: 2006, isn't it? Zaremba: I know the answer to that and I'm trying to think of it. It's within two years, a year and a half, perhaps. Newton-Huckabay: 2006. Wilson: Chairman Zaremba, I'm hearing confirmation from this side of the table that 2006 would be beginning of construction. Moe: Okay. Thank you. That's all I had. Zaremba: Has ACHD looked at this plan, do we know? Wilson: I did not receive a staff report from ACHD yet. Zaremba: What occurs to me -- and I know we talk about this on residential properties and I don't know -- I do know we do on residential. I don't know if we do on commercial properties, but we discuss through properties and not having access on two opposing Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 20 of 32 streets and the reason I noticed it on this one is since their driveways align with Commercial Avenue on one side and Commercial Street on the other side, I am concerned that when Nola becomes the cul-de-sac that it will, that it's going to be very tempting for people using Commercial Street to cut through this property to access the new Locust Grove without having to go up to top Pine Street and I wonder if any thought has been given to maybe not aligning their driveway and having it come off the cul-de-sac or -- do we care about that? Wilson: Chairman Zaremba, the applicant has proposed gates on the Nola Road side there and on the Locust Grove side. That would -- that large interior asphalt area is for storage of inventory. This is an HVAC and it sounds like pipe supply company. There would be inventory of large product out in that area and it would be for access by the business. So, it would be gated, actually, on both sides. I don't -- Zaremba: I think that answers my question. I looked for a fence plan and I didn't notice one, but if that's the plan, that answers my question. Any other questions, Commissioners? Moe: Well, we are already behind schedule, then. April was the start of the planning building. Zaremba: Last month. Okay. Would the applicant care to come forward? Kinghorn: Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. My name is Mark Kinghorn with Kinghorn Architecture, Incorporated. I'm the representative for Ferguson Enterprises, Incorporated, and we agree with all the Findings of Fact by Planning and Zoning on this and I have just a couple of questions for clarification. The only item that seems to be unresolved that I did not get a chance to fully resolve with Josh would be the addressing issue, in the sense -- I guess is what the client would prefer to do would be -- I guess advertise, market their business as being a Locust Grove address and in that sense we would like Planning and Zoning to be able to give -- the City of Meridian to give us a Locust Grove address that will exist once the extension is completed. As far as addressing currently right now, I mean we are happy to put the address numbers on the building on the Nola Road side and we are -- as far as permitting and whatnot, we are happy to use the Nola Road address, but it's quite a hardship for the client in order to change their address after they have already opened up business for a year or so to the Locust Grove address. I don't know if the city's capable of just telling us what that address is going to be once Locust Grove is completed. I guess that's the question. Zaremba: I'm not sure I know the answer to that. Isn't it the post office that makes the addresses? Wilson: Mr. Chairman, I may defer to Mr. Freckleton on this, but in discussions with Vickie in the Public Works Department, she did indicate that it isn't possible to address Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 21 of 32 off of Locust Grove, because it doesn't exist. I'm not familiar with the exact process and I'll let Bruce take over. Zaremba: Mr. Freckleton. Freckleton: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, the addressing is, actually, done through my department. It's a committee decision. The committee consists of emergency services, county officials, fire -- you know, fire department, police, and it's the policy that the road needs to exist prior to the address being issued on it -- on a street frontage. Postal Service also has input into that. Borup: That makes sense to me. A road has to be in existence. But would it also be logical that the same numbers could apply whether it was Nola or Locust Grove? Zaremba: It would be an even number on Locust Grove and an odd number on Nola, though, because of the side of the street they are on. Borup: You're right. You're right. You're right. Kinghorn: Just as an example, in a recent project that I had last year over in Pocatello, Idaho, we had a similar situation where we kind of made up a number by looking at the streets and the existing numbers from the other streets coming from the other directions and realized that once this street is complete, that that particular address number, fictitious number, would fit, you know, and we just kind of put that on the file, that when that street was completed, that that was the number that that building would receive, even though at the immediate time the number was fictitious, it was easy to implement at a later date. Is that a possibility? Borup: Are you asking for the -- Kinghorn: The reason I'm asking for this is just for their marketing and sales that they can advertise themselves as being a Locust Grove address, because, eventually, they will be. That eliminates the requirement that they will have to change their address at a later date. Borup: I think staff has already answered that. They can't really do an address on a road that doesn't exist. My question would be if you could get the number, if you could have this same number, maybe, and they could advertise for -- how can you advertise and be off Locust Grove if the road isn't built yet? Kinghorn: Well, it's just, you know, you put a big sign over there where Locust Grove ends and it says, you know, Ferguson entrance over here. Nary: Mr. Chair? Zaremba: Mr. Nary. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 22 of 32 Nary: I think part of the problem is -- and I don't -- I don't know that the Commission or the Council could solve it, but from what I heard -- from what I heard them say, they were going to be operating this business for a year or more before the road was actually in. From a safety -- from the safety services standpoint, for fire and police and EMS, there is no way in this -- in this area that they are going to be able to address it off a street that doesn't exist and everybody is going to know that this business is the one that's got the wrong address on it and if there is a person there injured, if there is a fire, if there is a break in, there is just no way to be able to make that happen in this size of county that we have here. I don't know the circumstances in Pocatello, but I mean I think the staff -- you know, it's following a consistent policy and I don't know that the Commission or the Council can really change that and provide, again, adequate public safety service to this facility. Once they have people there, they want to make sure the fire truck can find it. Kinghorn: Correct. Zaremba: Thank you. If -- you can tell we certainly sympathize with the issue and the desire, but as has been said by other members, I support the reasoning behind not allowing addresses on not yet existing streets. I'm not sure we can help you with that one. Kinghorn: In answer to Josh's other comments, the number of actual company vehicles on the lot would be four. Typically, they would be located on the east side of the HVAC building, outside of the designated parking areas, and would not affect the 72 spaces. I don't know if he's referring to those specifically or employee vehicles. Wilson: Any vehicle, actually, in the conduct of the business. That wouldn't include employee vehicles. Kinghorn: And may as well designate it on the side there, the HVAC building in the lower left corner and outside of the designated spaces. Wilson: Okay. And from those comments -- and this is what I anticipated -- staff recommends that parking is vastly sufficient such for the site, so -- Kinghorn: And in the last matter, we would be happy to create an outdoor amenity for public and employee seating as well. I guess I still struggle with the address issue. I guess even if Ferguson Enterprises were to advertise and market a Nola and Locust Street address, it doesn't seem to me that it would be terrible to create a fictitious address that would be implemented at a later time, but I guess if that's impossible, that's impossible. Newton-Huckabay: Can I ask a question? You're just asking the city to agree on a building number and a street address when Locust Grove -- Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 23 of 32 Kinghorn: Correct. Newton-Huckabay: -- when they start assigning addresses just for everybody. Is that what you did in Pocatello, everybody agreed it's going to be -- Kinghorn: Yeah. We had two streets that came together in a similar situation like this and, for example, the one street stopped at 1500 and the next street picked up at 1700 and so we knew that that building was going to be somewhere in the 1600 block and so, you know, we just kind of evaluated where it was and we decided to assign it the number 1634, because we knew that it was before the halfway point of the -- you know, the second area, and so we just knew in the future that that street was -- that address was going to be 1634 and at the time that the street was built, the city officially logged that 1634 address number. Newton-Huckabay: And what benefit did you get from that on your business in Pocatello? Kinghorn: This same situation, actually. The city -- that building did not have to use the back street address and for the first six months they were able to -- their clientele was able to access that facility off of the other street, in which they normally would have facing, but it's not that that particular street was going to be closed in the future, that particular street was a secondary street and the future street was going -- is, with a continuation of a primary street, and it behooved the public traffic and the city and the business as well to have that primary street as their address. And so it was just something we kind of did. Put a little note on a yellow folder going when this street gets built this will be the number for that building and even though it had to -- still had to go through its legal process. We just kind of fictitiously pre-assigned that number to it. I understand the concerns as far as the emergency access. I guess -- I would think that Nola -- Ferguson Enterprises would probably be willing to utilize both addresses on their marketing, I guess, that they are off of Nola -- listed first and Locust Grove listed second. Their clients would be able to find their facility from both addresses. But I certainly am willing to go along with whatever this Commission decides. Rohm: And I think that from the Commission's perspective, we can't dictate to you how you market your property and if you want to market it as a Locust Grove property, that's your prerogative, but we can't -- it doesn't look like there is a vehicle to give you that Locust Grove address and that's the best that we can do for you, just empathize with your position, but we have got to move forward based upon its current street configuration and if you want to market it as a Locust -- I don't think there is any objection by this body, for sure, however you want to market it. Kinghorn: Even though they can't get there. Rohm: Even though -- but the point is we can't -- we can't do that. Kinghorn: Well, I understand. I appreciate your consideration. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 24 of 32 Rohm: Thank you. Zaremba: Commissioners, any other questions? Moe: No. Zaremba: Okay. Borup: I think that covers it. Zaremba: Thank you. Let's see. On this item we don't have anybody else signed up, but, again, this is the opportunity for anybody that wishes to. Okay. Hearing no comments from the general public, Mr. Kinghorn does not need to provide a rebuttal again, so -- Moe: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Moe. Moe: I move we close the Public Hearing for CUP 05-016. Rohm: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Moe: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Moe. Moe: I move we forward to City Council recommending approval of CUP 05-016, to include all staff comments of the hearing date May 5th, 2005, received by the city clerk's office May 2nd, 2005. Rohm: Commissioner Moe, did you want to add the second amenity? Moe: Well, it's already in the site specific -- Zaremba: It's asked for in the -- Moe: It's asked for on their -- on page five, item number one. It's in there already. It's already there. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 25 of 32 Borup: Second. Rohm: It's there, but the applicant actually has to agree to it and that part of it wasn't. That's all right. Good enough. Borup: Second. Zaremba: Okay. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? The motion carries. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 14: Public Hearing: CUP 05-018 Request to amend the existing Conditional Use Permit / Planned Development to allow for a maximum building height of 58-feet in a C-C zone for Lots 1 & 2 and the southern portion of Lot 9, Block 5 for Marriott Courtyard at El Dorado by BRS Architects – NWC of East Tarpon Drive and South Eagle Road: Zaremba: Okay. Moving ahead. I'd like to open the Public Hearing for Item 14 and this is CUP 05-018, request to amend the existing Conditional Use Permit slash planned development to allow for a maximum building height of 58 feet in a C-C zone for Lots 1 and 2 and the southern portion of Lot 9, Block 5, for Marriott Courtyard at El Dorado by BRS Architects, northwest corner of East Tarpin Drive and South Eagle Road, and we will begin with staff comments. Guenther: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is -- I'll start by showing this in El Dorado. The two lots are immediately west of Eagle and north of Tarpin in this location as shown. The applicant's request is to increase the height requirement or height limitation and this is from ground to the highest point of the building. I detailed that in the staff report, so there is no confusion that -- if we are talking about building height versus any type of architectural features on the top. This is from ground to the highest point of the building. This is -- the use as a hotel on this site has already been approved under an existing Conditional Use Permit. The request is right now to make the allowance for the height of 58 feet. This is not going to impact any of the height restrictions of the existing El Dorado Conditional Use Permit, which was -- I'll go back one slide -- in what they call the Ridenbaugh section, which is these lots in here. Just a point of clarification, that it has no impact on that. They will be providing a cross-access agreement to the north, which is the -- there is a convenience store, as well as, I believe, a Jack-in-the-Box restaurant in that location and their other access will be to Tarpin to the south and the already pre-approved designated location for the access. Their only major requirement was to upgrade the classification for fire from an R-3 -- it's in the Meridian fire department comments and that was the only change that would need to be done to the building through construction in order make allowances for the height increase. And I will stand for questions. Zaremba: Commissioners, any questions? Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 26 of 32 Borup: None. Moe: None. Zaremba: Thank you. Would the applicant care to come forward? Strite: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante in Boise. I'm here on behalf of the hotel partners and, obviously, we are pleased with the staff report. I do have one question, if I might, and it pertains to page five, items number seven and items number eight. Maybe Bruce can help me with this. Those two lots -- the parcel is made up of two lots, as the previous slide would show you there, and each one has its individual sewer and water tap to the lot specifically. So, we, in effect, have two services provided to this site. However, if I'm reading item number seven, item number 8, second sentence, it says we will be responsible to construct sewer mains to and through this proposed development. I guess I need a point of clarification. Freckleton: Certainly. Zaremba: Mr. Freckleton. Freckleton: Benito Subdivision, when it was constructed, eight inch mains were stubbed into each lot. We didn't know how services or how the lots were going to develop, so they were actually main lines. It's our intention to, whenever possible, to be able to loop water mains through and tie them back in, just for hydraulic balance and better fire flows. So, if -- it's a little bit of a boilerplate comment. If we have the opportunity to run it through and tie it back into another main on the other side or something we would desire to do that. Does that answer the question at all or -- Strite: Mr. Chair. Bruce would -- does that also include the sewer extension? I mean the sewer is -- Freckleton: Well, it's considered a main, because it's an eight-inch -- it's eight inch diameter. Strite: But we, basically, have two sewer services, each of which is eight inch. Freckleton: Right. Strite: To that site. Let me ask you this: Having spoken to Joe Silva probably a year ago when we started this process, we talked about the potential for extending the water main anyway, because we had to provide additional fire hydrants, which you will note in the fire department comments. So, is that construed to mean that once we get to the north end of this property, are we going to be responsible to try to get Farmers and Merchants to allow us to go through their property in order to get back to that other Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 27 of 32 eight inch main? I guess -- all I need is a point of clarification and -- I have no problem with the concept, but it doesn't make a lot of sense in this case. Freckleton: Right. Point of clarification would be that services or the mains that are necessary for this project are existing and you would just need to extend them to whatever point you would need to to access the building at the point you need. Now, the only qualification I'll add to that would be if there is deficiency in the pressure flow, we may be looking for another main to tie into to balance out hydraulic -- hydraulically or increase the fire flow. So, it's something that we would have to go through and add to our water model to analyze that once we get a little further into the process. Strite: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that's certainly acceptable to us. And reasonable. Zaremba: Thank you. Strite: That's the only question I have. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them. If you want to take a moment, I can show you some photographs of the one we just finished in Boise, if there is any desire to do so. Other than that, if you're ready to go home, I'd like to go home as well. Zaremba: Run through them quickly and we will be glad to see them. Strite: Well, I have them in a packet here. Zaremba: Oh, I thought they were up on the screen. Strite: No. I have them here and you're welcome to take a look. Again, I'm not sure that -- some of you, I know, have already seen these, but I brought them just to -- just in case. I, actually, expected to see some people from Thousand Springs and I went and checked out the -- I kind of expected to see some people from Thousand Springs, so I did a little bit of homework. I checked the grade basin -- finish floor elevation of the ridge line at Thousand Springs and the finish floor of the hotel and we are 18 feet below finish floor of the houses on the bench there, so, in essence, our highest point of 58 feet is, really, 30 feet from that particular elevation, which, in fact, is below what's allowed by ordinance. So, I just thought I would throw that out. I find that there are no opposing neighbors, so -- Zaremba: If they had been here, they probably would have raised that issue, but -- Strite: I would have thought so. That's very -- other than that, I have nothing else. But ask for your permission and we will move forward. Zaremba: Commissioners, any other questions? Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 28 of 32 Borup: Mr. Chairman, the only question I have to ask Mr. Strite is are you glad you didn't, being last on the schedule, anticipate a 9:30 hearing and wait until then to show up? Zaremba: We can always talk until 2:00 o'clock in the morning if you want us to. Borup: And we wouldn't have waited for you. Strite: Thank you very much. Zaremba: Thank you. And we have opportunity for everybody else in the audience to speak, but there is nobody else in the audience, so that opportunity has been granted and nobody was here take it, so Commissioners? Guenther: I was going to say, if he really wants to be here that late, he can either be on 19th or the 2nd. Zaremba: We could continue it until, then. Moe: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the Public Hearing on CUP 05-018. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Moe: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: Commissioner Moe. Moe: I move we forward on to City Council recommending approval of CUP 05-018, to include all staff comments of the hearing date May 5th, 2005, received by the city clerk April 29th, 2005. Newton-Huckabay: Second. Borup: Second. Zaremba: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Moe: Mr. Chairman, I move we adjourn. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 29 of 32 Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: We have -- staff has a comment. Hawkins-Clark: I'm sorry. I know you're really anxious to get out, but if I could just -- two quick things. One is there is an open house that we are hosting -- we being the City of Meridian and planning staff, for the north Meridian area. It's going to be the 16th -- Monday night the 16th, May 16th, at Sawtooth Middle School, and there will be notices going out and put in your boxes, but I just wanted to give you a heads up. It's going to be open house format. The focus of the meeting is going to be a -- solicit input from property owners and the public on the north Meridian area. Zaremba: Say again where that meeting is? Where is that meeting? Hawkins-Clark: At Sawtooth Middle School. Zaremba: And what time? Hawkins-Clark: 6:00 to 8:00. Zaremba: 6:00 to 8:00? Borup: That's Sawtooth on Linder? Hawkins-Clark: Sawtooth on Linder. Right. Zaremba: All right. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: You don't want to walk or ride your bike, because there is no sidewalk. Hawkins-Clark: It could be a test case. You could walk there. And the second thing, I just, for the fun of it, was just estimating -- which I usually don't do, but estimating the time frames for the 19th and the 2nd and I thought I was being conservative and I couldn't come up with less than a seven hour meeting on either one. To be honest with you, I mean there was a withdrawal of the Reserve Subdivision from the May 19th and I factored that withdrawal into -- into that, but I know that you probably don't have a way to solve this tonight, because you have already -- you know, you have already set these agendas, but I just thought maybe one idea might be if you're willing, that, you know, you could have sort of a pre -- is this right, Mr. Attorney, that -- as long as we announce that they are going to have a quorum, it's not a hearing, it's a workshop where staff could give an overview of some of the details that we anticipate being presented at that hearing. It is -- I mean you have had many meetings lately, but it's just one thought, that if you want to -- because our fear, of course, is that, you know, you won't get to the last four items on both of these meetings, I really don't think. So, you may get to their -- Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 30 of 32 you know, you get through -- and through it and, then, if you don't finish those meetings, then, we have this ripple effect, you know, through -- through the people that are already now anticipating to go onto our July meetings and I'm just trying to think of a way to help these two meetings ease up a little bit. Nary: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, it may be problematic in trying to do a workshop, which, essentially, is really trying to give the staff an extra opportunity to -- to give the staff report or the troublesome areas and, then, there is not an opportunity for a response or public participation. One thing you might consider -- I mean certainly I know there are times when I agree with Hawkins-Clark that, you know, we have announced on a number of occasions that we won't take anymore hearings after a set time and we will stop -- we will stop at a certain point and determine how many more hearings we will continue on and, then, setting those. You probably would be better off if you wanted to, setting a special meeting in the future that can be noticed and that way it can be determined -- just to give you an example, if you decide at 10:00 o'clock on the 19th that you're going to gauge where you're at and there is three projects left and you're going to set those two to your second meeting in June or you're going to set it to a special meeting in June, just to make sure you have that spill over capability, that would probably be better from a public records standpoint, as well as the record going forward to the Council and, you know, always there is the potential of district court. The other option is that it is a national day of prayer and you could certainly use that as a method to determine maybe on May 19th things will work themselves out. Zaremba: We can pray that I ask fewer questions. Moe: I do it all the time. Nary: I just would be hesitant to recommend a workshop. It would be better just a special meeting setting those items on a meeting agenda and just hearing them in that fashion, than, trying to get a hearing early and, then, hear it again and have it appear to at least an applicant that maybe there is an opportunity -- they didn't get a fair opportunity to really rebut that or there is a lag in time between those. I think it just makes it a little more problematic. Hawkins-Clark: And Joe pointed out to me that we may shuffle the agenda for those that are anticipated to be no opposition, to help -- try to determine -- you know, from the standpoint of public relations, if you will, to get them done first, but -- Zaremba: Well, we discussed at one point having a -- the no brainers might be on a Consent Agenda and move them off. If somebody objects -- can we do that? There was a few -- I mean there were two or three tonight that probably could have been -- Borup: If the applicant has no objection to any of the staff comments, if they are in a hundred percent agreement with all staff comments, that those could go on. Didn't we get that in -- Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 31 of 32 Nary: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, there is a -- there is a Public Hearing ordinance that's been worked on to death and it's kind of in the pending stage, but you could certainly, as the chair's prerogative, certainly request that any of the items that have no objections to the staff, that they are in agreement, you could have the application state that on the record, that they are in complete agreement with the staff comments and they are ready to move forward, you can group those together and approve those all in one motion and that's certainly not going to violate any -- Rohm: How can it be done without taking public testimony? If there is someone from the public just because -- Nary: If there was someone from the public that's here to provide any testimony, then, you could take it off the Consent Agenda. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I mean Commissioner Rohm is right, I mean as long as a member of the public has an opportunity to speak, if there is no opposition by the applicant or there is no opposition from the public, you can certainly group all of those projects together and you kind of approve them in one motion recommending to staff the findings for approval based on the staff's recommendation. Borup: I'd recommend we do that. We have been wanting to try that anyway. Zaremba: Yes. This would be a good meeting to experiment with that. Moe: That's what Boise does. I have been there a few times in the last month and a half going through that process. Zaremba: Okay. We have a motion on the floor that I don't believe has been seconded and has not been voted on. Rohm: To adjourn? Zaremba: Yes. Rohm: Second. Borup: Did Mr. -- did we get through all -- Zaremba: I'm sorry. We are done. Hawkins-Clark: I'm done. I just wanted to give you that forewarning. Borup: What was the estimate on tonight's meeting? Hawkins-Clark: No estimate. Borup: Okay. Meridian Planning & Zoning May 5, 2005 Page 32 of 32 Zaremba: There wasn't time to make an estimate. Rohm: Second. Zaremba: Okay. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Zaremba: Thank you. We are adjourned at 8:24. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:24 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.) APPROVED ______________________________ _____|_____|_____ DAVID ZAREMBA - CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVED ATTESTED:______________________________ WILLIAM G. BERG JR., CITY CLERK