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2001 07-19Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting July 19, 2001 The City of Meridian Planning and Zoning regularly scheduled meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M. on Thursday, July 19, 2001, by Commissioner Bill Nary. Members Present: Bill Nary, Jerry Centers, and Keven Shreeve. Members Absent: Keith Borup and Sally Norton. Others Present: David McKinnon, Bruce Freckleton, Larry Moore, Tara Green, and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: __O__ Sally Norton __X___ Jerry Centers __X__ Bill Nary __X___ Keven Shreeve __O__ Chairman Keith Borup Nary: Okay we’re going to call this meeting to order. We can start with roll call. Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of May 29, 2001 City Council and Planning and Zoning Commission Joint Workshop: B. Approve minutes of June 7, 2001 Planning and Zoning Special Commission Meeting: C. Approve minutes of June 7, 2001 Planning and Zoning Regular Commission meeting: D. Approve minutes of June 21, 2001 Planning and Zoning Commission: Nary: Next on the agenda is the Consent Agenda regarding the minutes. They can be done either in one motion or separate motions. Centers: Mr. Chairman. Nary: Commissioner Centers. Centers: I would like to move that we approve the minutes of the May 19th , June 7th , excuse me. Lets back up. The May 29th City Council and Planning and Zoning Commission joint workshop, the June 7th P&Z Special Commission meeting, the June 7th P&Z regular Commission meeting and the June 21st P&Z Commission Meeting. I would move that we approve them as submitted. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 2 Shreeve: I’ll second that. Nary: It’s been moved and second to approve Items A, B, C, and D the minutes of May 29th City Council Planning and Zoning joint workshop, the Planning and Zoning Special Commission meeting of June 7th as well as the regular Commission on June 7th and the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting on June 21st . All those in favor? MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 4. Continued Public Hearing from June 7, 2001: PP 01-010 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 18 building lots and 2 other lots on 11.57 acres in R-4 and C-N zones for proposed Cherry Crossing by Albertson’s, Inc. – northwest corner of Linder Road and West Cherry Lane Item 5. Continued Public Hearing from June 7, 2001: CUP 01-016 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for single-family dwellings and drug store with drive-thru, fuel pumps, office/retail and fast food in R-4 and proposed C-N zones for proposed Cherry Crossing by Albertson’s, Inc. – northwest corner of Linder Road and West Cherry Lane: Nary: We can now move onto Items 4 and 5 on the agenda. It looks like not a tremendously large crowd here for that. If it’s all right with the Commission I would suggest we simply open both hearings, both 4 and 5. Hearing no objection to that, I guess we’re ready for the staff report. McKinnon: Thank you Mr. Commissioner, members of the Commission, audience. Staff report tonight is the only one we’ve got. It’s going to be concerning the northwest corner of Cherry Lane and Linder Road. It’s an application for 22 lots. You can see right there on the overhead the location. It’s going to consist of 15 residential lots, 3 building lots and 4 common lots looking northwest. Looking northeast, its vacant. Across the street you have the maverick, the Video Land just across the street some strip development. The preliminary plat you should see in front of you shows that in the far northwest corner there’s a common lot and in the far south, well northeast corner and the southeast corner, they are common lots. They will be added as part of the existing residential neighborhood that will be owned and maintained by the homeowner’s association of the neighborhoods. The commercial lot that sits adjacent to Linder Road up in the northeast corner is to be a restaurant. The second lot in, eastern lot, western lot is going to be an office building. Then on the far south portion of the property, that commercial lot will be for Sav-On drugstore and a 5-pump gas station. The configuration is shown right there. There will be as stated 15 individual homes with the 2 common lots interior to the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 3 new residential property there will be 2 more common lots. They will be dedicated as parkland. You can see those in the northwest corner. There are two parcels. You can see some writing on those right now. See the elevation of the Sav-On Drug and the other elevations. This is the office plan. All the buildings will be the same color and make design. That’s it for the slides. As far as the staff report you have in front of you tonight there are a couple of corrections that need to be made to the staff report that I would like to point out to you. The driveway aisle on the staff report that you have, the plat that you have, shows that there is to be 22 parking spaces in a row. That has been corrected on the Preliminary Plat. The Preliminary Plat that you found in your boxes today shows that there will actually not be 21 or 22 parking stalls in a row against the Ordinance. They have actually put in another landscape island between those. There will be no more than 12 parking stalls in a row as per the Ordinance. The second correction that I would have for you on the staff report is that in the staff report on No. 9 under the Preliminary Plat, you can go ahead and flip to that. Centers: Excuse me, David, if you could refer to the page and item number. McKinnon: Item No. 9 on Page 3 needs to be corrected. The fourth line says No. 2 and No. 3 adjacent to the new residential road and the 35-foot wide landscape buffer between land uses. That should read 25 feet. Centers: If you could back up to the previous alteration. McKinnon: In the previous alteration was not a comment necessarily in the staff report itself but the site plan that you had in your packets initially showed that there was a parking island in the west side of the parking lot behind the Sav-On Drug. It showed 21 parking spaces in a row. Meridian City Landscape Ordinance requires that if you have more than 12 parking stalls linearly arranged in a row, you have to put a 5-foot wide parking island between that and every 50 square feet. The applicant has already made that correction. The correction came to you today already and it’s in part of your new packet that was provided this afternoon. Items to note Item No. 5 on the same page, Page 3. A new note needs to be added to the plat. I say this mostly for the applicant that a 1400 square foot excluding garage minimum on the house sizes needs to added to the plat. I would just like to draw attention to that to the applicant. The applicant has had an opportunity to take a look at the staff report. Bruce has one comment to add to that before we turn it over to the Commission and to the applicant. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission just one item that I wanted point out and that was that the Preliminary Plat does not show pressurized irrigation but it is a requirement. It was in our staff comments and I just wanted to point that out. Nary: Does it need to be included as a condition? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 4 Freckleton: It needs to be shown on the Preliminary Plat Map. There were some questions that weren’t in the staff comments as to the ownership of that system, whether it was going to be a Nampa Meridian system or whether it was going to be an extension of the existing system in the Valeri Heights project or if it was going to be a stand-alone system for this development specifically. Those are the outstanding issues on those. Page 3, Item 7 of the staff report. Nary: Is there any questions for the staff? Would you be able to make your presentation in about 20 minutes? Great. Thank you. Schaffer: Good evening Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission. For the record, my name is Sarah Schaffer. I’m with CSHQA Architects and along with me tonight I have Dennis Bert from the Albertson’s Real Estate and I have Gordon Anderson from Anderson David and Associate who have done the Preliminary Plat for us. I wanted to do a little quick history on the site. In 1996 Smith’s Food had submitted a plan for approval to the City of Meridian and there were 16 residential lots, a couple of out pads and a 6,000 approximately square foot grocery store that was approved by the Commission and by ACHD. Then Smith food store was purchased by Fred Meyer in 1996 and they discontinued the development of this plan. In 1998 Intermountain Development Group purchased the land. As the firm for Intermountain Development Group CSHQA has gone through a couple of renditions as far as designs for the land. They did at one point in time do some small commercial developments. There was a plan for multi-family units going in. We have settled on this plan tonight for the future development. We have spoken with the homeowner’s association several times. In March we had a whole entire neighborhood meeting. There were a couple issues that were addressed as far as one item they were concerned about was the continuation of the screen walls along Cherry Lane. They have an undulating screen wall that goes across the front of their property currently. They wanted that continued along the residential areas that are also going in. We agreed to that. That’s not a problem. They would also like a similar wall going in along Linder, along the side house that’s going to go up there. We’ve agreed to that. Another item that they were concerned about was the cut through traffic through the cul de sac on Castle Falls. They had requested that a sign go in stating that there was to be no through traffic into the neighborhood. I spoke with ACHD. We’ve come up with some better verbiage as far as on the sign limiting the access to local traffic only. That will go up to the left of the entrance into the commercial area. The last item that we addressed that the homeowner’s association was a little concerned about was the landscaping in the common areas. We are going to meet Landscaping Ordinances when the land is sold off, the contractor will have to meet Landscaping Ordinances for that and has agreed to do the one tree per 8,000 square-foot for the common areas. It has been discussed with the homeowner’s association that there’s the possibility of additional landscaping going in that area. The homeowners appear to be in agreeance with the commercial development. At this time if you have any Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 5 questions for myself or the Albertson’s representative, we’d be happy to answer any of them. Nary: Questions? Centers: History again, this one approved for something? Schaffer: It was approved for a Smith’s grocery store in 1996. Centers: With no residential lots attached to that? Schaffer: With 16 residential lots. I’ve got a site plan for you to look at. This site plan shows the residential lots here (inaudible). We used the same configuration that Smith’s did as far as the residential lots are concerned. We did have to add the common areas per ACHD’s right-of-way. A couple of the lots were reduced in size. This was Smith’s plan laid out. All the entrances and everything were maintained by our development as far as what was approved. This was by Commission and I believe (inaudible). Centers: In 96 you said. Your question on the cut through, I guess that doesn’t show the whole other connecting subdivision. Schaffer: They were concerned and this was an issue – Nary: You have to speak on the record Miss, or you can use that microphone there. Schaffer: This was an issue that they were concerned about even when Smith’s went in. In order to rectify that one thing that ACHD and the neighborhood agreed to was the little dogleg that they’ve got currently in Castle Falls as well as the island in the center. They felt that would cut down visually on going through the neighborhood and reduce some of that cut through traffic because it’s not as easily visible. Nary: Miss Schaffer, there’s just a couple of questions that I had. On that corner, how tall is like the canopy for that gas station going to be? Schaffer: The canopy is at 18 feet. Nary: How tall is the berm then, 6? Schaffer: Yes. Nary: The signage for this building is it just going to face Linder and Cherry Lane? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 6 Schaffer: Yes. Nary: So there’s no lighted signs that are going to face the – Schaffer: Not facing the residential. The signage is all on Cherry and Linder. Nary: What are the hours of operation for that Sav-On store? Schaffer: The store is going to be open Monday through Saturday 8 to 10 and Sunday 9 to 9 with the pharmacy hours being 9 to 9 Monday through Saturday and Sunday 6 to 10. Nary: Now, I didn’t notice a drive-thru pharmacy for this. Is that right? Schaffer: There is a drive thru pharmacy. Nary: Oh, there is. I’m sorry. Schaffer: That and the fuel pumps are the reason for the Conditional Use. Nary: Okay I guess I was looking at the drive-thru for the fast food as well. Schaffer: Sure. Nary: So, there is no intention to make that a 24-hour operation? Schaffer: Not the store. We would like to have the fuel pumps as a 24 hour. Nary: That would be an attendant on duty all the time or would that be simply like a credit card debit card operation? Schaffer: Credit card, debit card operation. Nary: On the fast food what’s the decibel level of the speaker system you’re going to use and how far away from that location are they going to be able to hear that? Are the folks in those houses across that roadway too close? Or it shouldn’t be a problem? Schaffer: It shouldn’t be a problem. We currently don’t have anybody purchasing that land so we’re not sure who’s going in. The speaker system hasn’t been designed as far as that. That’s something that we would be willing to work with as far as whoever purchases the land to make sure that’s acceptable for the neighbors. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 7 Nary: I notice on the plat that the roadway that goes around it, I guess it wasn’t clear to me. Maybe I’m just not reading it right as to where the location of the ordering section could be. Can it be placed on the south side of the building? Schaffer: Yes. Nary: So, all the speaker traffic is going to be on that side of the building? Schaffer: Yes that’s where we have it intended to be, on the south side with just the pick up window on the east. Nary: I had one other question. I read in the paper about issues with Albertson’s and closing some stores, at least one of the stories I read said these Sav-On stores were one of the types of stores they were closing in some locations. Is that incorrect? Schaffer: I’m going to defer that to Dennis Burt and let him give you information on that. Nary: The reason I’m asking is so that Mr. Burt can answer the question, is I don’t want a Smith’s food king on that corner like what’s in Boise. You know I don’t want you to start to build a building and then there’s a change. Maybe you can address that. Burt: Since acquiring America Stores Albertson’s has now -- oh, I’m sorry. Good point. My name is Dennis Burt I am an Albertson’s Real Estate Manager for this area. To try to answer your question and put it into some perspective. Since acquiring American stores Albertson’s now operates over 2,500 units across the country. So, the number of stores that are being closed, that were announced to be closed, considering the size, is actually not that significant. These are mostly stores that the company has operated at a loss for years and it finally decided that it’s fortuitous to not continue to do that. To my knowledge Albertson’s has never launched, started construction and then ended it mid stream the way that the Smith’s occurred. Our history, once we’ve started we complete the project. I’ve never seen it. In fact it was interesting that that was permitted to stop the way it did the Smith’s you are referring to. Nary: Like I said if it wasn't the same week that the article was in the paper I probably wouldn’t even ask the question but it just happened to be that this is the week that you’re here. I guess that would be just a concern. Burt: That’s a good question. By the way, none of the stores we are considering closing are in Boise. Nary: Other questions? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 8 Centers: Mr. Chairman. Nary: Commissioner Centers. Centers: You reminded me of one thing and it could be addressed to Miss Schaffer or this gentleman. Do you have a firm plan for build out, the commercial first or, I know you’re going to sell the lots off to builders? The reason I ask that is if the fast food is going to go in first or do you know? Burt: Right now our schedule has us selling, as soon as the plat is recorded, we would like to sell the residential lots and have those develop first. We can’t dictate when they will be developed. Our intention is to sell those off first. Centers: Right. I can understand that. Burt: The commercial will probably be developed later. Centers: I would highly recommend then that you disclose to the builders of, the buyers of those buildable lots that you are going to put a fast food in fairly close to those residential lots and you know buyer beware. If they’re going to have a fast food there. Burt: Yes we’re glad that this development is the way it is laid out in that we’re not going up against people that already have homes. That the residential lots will provide a buffer between the existing homes and this development and those who buy those lots should be fully aware of what’s going to happen next to them when they buy them. Centers: I would think that they had better be aware. Burt: We can’t always say that we’re sure that every real estate agent in town is going to – Centers: You provide them with a copy of this. Burt: That’s right. Centers: They certainly would know about it so I would say when you sell those lots that you give them a copy of this. This is what’s going in because I don’t think its fair to the homeowners to go in there and then have a fast food that they didn’t know about. Nary: To be fair Mr. Burt, I think 3 to 5 years most people have a tendency to forget which was there first. If it’s noisy and a problem, it’s noisy and a problem. The other question I had too is on the office building. Is that office building oriented to the east or oriented to the south or both? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 9 Schaffer: It’s oriented both. We have entrances located on both the east and the south facades. Nary: Pardon me because I can’t see it very good from here. It looks like parking spaces that are on the west side of the property right against the landscape buffer. Schaffer: Yes. Nary: Is that correct? So, you’ve got cars parking -- is there fence there or just landscape? Schaffer: There is a 6-foot screen wall. Nary: Okay oh, that’s right because it was to match the other fencing that’s already existing. Is that correct? Schaffer: Correct. There’s also by Ordinance there is a 6-foot screen wall required to separate the C-N and the residential zones so we do have a 6-foot high (inaudible) screen wall designed into there. Nary: How wide is that buffer? Schaffer: The buffer is 25 foot. Nary: Other questions? Centers: Mr. Chairman. Nary: Commissioner Centers. Centers: I have a question for staff. It was note to myself earlier. Someone read the geological report because it’s a long one. I didn’t read it and I’m not a geologist. Is everyone happy with that? McKinnon: Commissioner Centers, I personally have not reviewed that yet. Centers: How about the applicant? Schaffer: Yes it has been reviewed by our staff. Nary: Any other questions? Freckleton: Commissioner Centers I’m kind of going from memory here but I believe when we wrote the staff report we had asked for some information Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 10 regarding the test wells and the current status of those. I don’t recall ever receiving that information. If it’s been submitted I have not seen it. Nary: Is that in relation to Condition 7 because it talks about the (inaudible) well and it’s also talking about irrigation as well as No.4. Or 11, it says provide with status report of the sampling of ground water, contamination. Is that the one you’re talking about? Freckleton: Yes. Nary: Okay so, at least at this point, you don’t believe that information has been provided or do you think the report may be what (inaudible). Schaffer: The information would probably be in the geological report. We just had that testing done. Freckleton: Okay. Schaffer: If further information is needed we can get that for you. Freckleton: Okay. Nary: Thank you. Freckleton: Members of the Commission David does have in his file a copy of the geo-tech that was done, it says March 8th was the date? There’s a reference in there of the original site investigation proposal dated February 20, 2001. That was what it was in response to. I’ll need to get a copy out of his file and take a look at it. Nary: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on this project? Seeing none, is there any other questions the Commission has for either the applicant or the staff? Centers: Mr. Chairman. Nary: Commissioner Centers. Centers: I would move that we close the Public Hearing. Shreeve: I second that. Nary: Its been moved and second to close the Public Hearing. Would that be on Items 4 and 5? Centers: That’s correct. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 11 Nary: Its been moved and second to close the Public Hearing on Items 4 and 5. All those in favor? MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Nary: Okay what’s the pleasure of the Commission? (Inaudible discussion amongst Commission members) Shreeve: I have no further comments or questions so with that I recommend approval of PP 01-010 request for Preliminary Plat approval of 18 building lots and 2 other lots on 11. 57 acres in R-4 and C-N zones for proposed Cherry Crossing by Albertson’s Inc. I also recommend approval for CUP 01-016 request for Conditional Use Permit for single-family dwellings and drug store with drive- thru, fuel pumps, office, retail and fast food in R-4 and proposed C-N zones for proposed Cherry Crossing by Albertson’s Inc. and of course all staff comments and the corrections relating to those comments be implemented in that motion. Centers: Do we need to spell those corrections? Item 7 the pressurized irrigation a requirement. McKinnon: It’s in the comments, the staff comments. Centers: Okay. Nary: (Inaudible) have to provide that information. Shreeve: Provide that information. With that then even Item No. 9 that the 35 - foot wide buffer is to be a 25-foot just to get it on line. Nary: Commissioner Centers. There was at least a sort of an open ended. I’m sorry Commissioner Shreeve. There was an open-ended comment in the Conditional Use Permit Conditions 12 and I guess its pretty general. Did you want to have the hours of operation that they stated on the record tonight be included as a condition or do you want to leave it as it is? What it specifically says is that they shall state the hours of operation for all uses within the commercial development during the Public Hearing. They have done that. Do you want to make note of that so that it is included in the condition? Shreeve: Good point. Yes I don’t know if I need to repeat those but they appeared to be adequate. Nary: What was mentioned was Monday through Saturday 8 to 10 and Sundays 9 to 9. This was just for the Sav-On Drug and that there was no 24-hour operation. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 12 Centers: The gas station at 24 hours. Nary: The gas station would be 24 but the other sites would not be. Shreeve: Yes Include that in the motion please. Centers: Then the screen walls, do we need to include the fact that they are going to be provided around all residential at Linder and Cherry Lane? McKinnon: The screen walls are actually provided for on the site plan. Nary: It’s on No, 6 as well perimeter fencing. McKinnon: That has been addressed in the staff comments and in the site plan. Centers: Do we need to say anything about your numbering sequence for the Conditional Use Permit? McKinnon: I just noticed that myself. I can make that correction. Centers: Okay. Nary: It sounds like a script error like we’re (inaudible). Centers: I would second that motion. Nary: Its been moved and seconded to recommend approval to the City Council of Items 4 PP 01-010 request for Preliminary Plat approval and also Item 5 CUP 01-016. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor? MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Centers: Do you want a geological report too? McKinnon: Sarah, could we have that geological report? Nary: Is there any other business before we have a motion to adjourn? I believe the next meeting is scheduled for August 2nd . I know I won’t be present. Centers: I wont be present. Nary: (Inaudible) said he would not be present. As far as I know Chairman Borup and Commissioner Norton were going to be present. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 13 Centers: I had a question of our City Clerk. Did we finalize – I have it written down some place the next Public Hearing for the Comp Plan? McKinnon: August 31st . Centers: And the location? McKinnon: August 30th . It’s going to be at the high school, same location. Centers: Have you advertised it yet? McKinnon: I don’t believe we have. Centers: How many seats do you have here? We have 5, 10 , 15, 20, 25. We have plenty of seats here Will. (Inaudible discussion amongst Commission members) Berg: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission just so that you know there’s a few other things going on dealing with land use things. The City Council, ACHD and Ada County has a meeting Monday to deal with the north corridor situation. I don’t know if some of this stuff is going to draw up some more interest. I understand your concerns but we’re trying to prepare for --. Centers: (Inaudible) we could have had it here. Berg: We could have, yes. Centers: Can you bring in some folding chairs or maybe those extra chairs? Berg: There’s a certain limit per our fire marshals concern. (Inaudible discussion amongst commission members) Berg: I understand but we are trying to make it as easy for the public. Not to make them feel too fenced in if we have more than 50 people in here. Centers: Can you get them more comfortable chairs? Nary: Sometimes I think what the concern is that if you squish people in here, then the perception is that we’re trying to squish them in and they don’t want to participate. It’s probably not going to hurt that much to have it (inaudible). The July 31st joint meeting of this Commission and the Council is that off for sure? Berg: Mr. Chairman it has been more or less agreed upon to not have it. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 14 Nary: Okay. Berg: For the reason of some of the Commissioners are going to be gone that week. Other things being looked at. I know that the Commission is looking at the Comp Plan. Maybe after the Comp Plan is approved, Ordinance will be looked at a little bit closely, some other directions. We’re very concerned that we don’t talk about the Comprehensive Plan at that meeting and the tendency may be to do so. The idea of getting everybody together and the vacation schedules for this summer (inaudible). Centers: So, are you saying that August 30th is not cast in concrete? Berg: No. (Inaudible discussion amongst commission members) Centers: (Inaudible) backing up to the Comp Plan. Berg: It is August 30th . That’s what you guys continued it. Centers: The location is not totally done? Berg: Well, we assume to have it right back there is what we told the people. We are going to advertise that when it gets closer. I found out that if I advertise it too soon people forget about it. I don’t think I have to advertise but for a good community, we are going to try to get out and get some stories and get a little bit more heads up to people so that they can be there. Nary: Yes, what we were talking about, July 31st is the fifth Tuesday, that’s why. Now, it looks like we then have another meeting, the next meeting, a joint meeting of the Council would be October 30th at this point anyway because that would be the fifth Tuesday. Unidentified Speaker: So, there’s not one on the 31st ? Nary: No. Berg: No you will have, or some of us will have a Tuesday off. Some of us will be gone. Nary: I’m sure they’ll find a reason to have a special workshop for some of us. Centers: Mr. Chairman. Nary: Commissioner Centers. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting July 19, 2001 Page 15 Centers: I would like to move that we adjourn the P&Z meeting for – Nary: Its only 7:33 are you sure? Shreeve: Second that. Nary: Its been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor? MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:33 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: KEITH BORUP, CHAIRMAN WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK