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1998 11-10 BITEM NO. 13: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RETAIL CARPET STORE BY CLAY HARTZ d/b/a FASHION FLOORS AND INTERIORS –126 KING STREET: MacCoy: Staff any comments? Item 13. Stiles: Commissioner Chairman, commissioners we have reviewed the application and submitted our comments. Everything is pretty standard as far as the comments. Ordinance requirements, I guess I would like to hear from the applicants if they have any objections to any of those comments or to Ada County Highway District that I don’t believe we have in our packet. MacCoy: Is that it? Stiles: We have been by the property, I don’t think it’s an inappropriate use for what is surrounding the area, but it is in old town so it requires a conditional use permit. Ada County Highway District does have quite an expanse of right-of-way in front of this property and it’s an unimproved right-of-way. There is also as you can see from the site plan, there is a ditch running along the property within the right-of-way. We would still ask that a sidewalk be located along the frontage of this property, and that coordination with Ada County Highway District take place to allow that to happen. If the changes that are requested are made, I would recommend approval of the project. MacCoy: Bruce do you have anything? Bruce hasn’t anything. Okay, is the applicant here? Would you please come forward and be sworn in. CLAY HARTZ, 1700 N. LORRELL, BOISE, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Hartz: Basically I’m just trying to open a carpet store. I’ve been here in Meridian for four years. We are at 313 W. Cherry Lane right now. It’s a very small facility that is rented. We are trying to buy this and get a larger show room. We are a destination business. We do not have posted hours. We are open by appointment, we are mainly contractor oriented. Do not plan on storing anything on site. We will show and display our goods there and have clients meet us there. We have a basic client count of approximately five to seven people per day that come into our show room. MacCoy: Commissioners any questions? Mr. Hartz? Borup: Did you have any comments on the staff comments? Hartz: We met with the highway department and we are in agreement with everything that they are recommending. They are recommending that we put a sidewalk in front and pave our driveway area and the area adjacent to the back, because we are planning on putting in some parking in there too, to comply with the handicap access building. I think there is a plan or drawing of what in there of what we are doing. Borup: You are going to take care of the gravel walk also? Hartz: Yeah, we are going to put a concrete in and probably put an entrance on the back that is handicap accessible(Inaudible) patio there. Borup: That’s all I have. MacCoy: Any other commissioner have any questions? Commissioner Nelson do you have any? Okay. I just got one thing that happened to hit me when I looked through this, you say you are not going to store anything on your property, yet you have storage written all over this thing. Hartz: Well, storage for our—inside the—for our displays and our smaller items. MacCoy: That type of storage, it’s not rolled carpet. Hartz: No that’s right, we have offsite storage. MacCoy: Okay, you can take a seat. Opening the floor now to a public hearing for anybody who is in favor of this in your community. All right, going to the other side of the aisle or fence, whatever you want to call it, anybody who would like to speak negatively on this side of the fence. Okay, come forward. TIM ZIMMER, WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Zimmer: Okay, it’s a residential area that we live in. We want to see it stay as residential area, it is old town. We have a lot of businesses just a block away on east 1st , we get a lot of heavy traffic through this area and there is a lot of kids in the neighborhood and we just don’t want to see anymore traffic. Just like to see it not get developed anymore than it already is. We are sitting in a little area between two main roads, East 1st and Franklin a lot of big trucks and traffic use. King and East 2nd where we live as detours around the main parts of town. We are just afraid that anymore—allowing any kind of business in there any farther into the residential area is just going to create more traffic, more problems. MacCoy: Any questions? Borup: How far down is your residence from this? Zimmer: Half a block, a couple of houses and over a ways. Borup: Your address was? Zimmer: (Inaudible) E. 2nd . Borup: So it’s on the next street. Zimmer: On the corner of 2nd and King. Borup: Okay so it’s the next block over. Zimmer: Half a block. MacCoy: Was there anyone else? LINDA ROBERTS, 133 E. KING, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Roberts: One of the comments other than what Tim had to say is we live just kitty corner across the street. We are right on the corner of 2nd and King. The traffic really is terrible. I’ve been thinking that we need to find a way to get the trucks to not use that as a detour because it is old town, it is residential right there. I don’t know how many near accidents and accidents have been right at that intersection. We have a five year old and I’m very concerned. There are kids in the neighbor, I’m very concerned about this with having more traffic and just keeping it residential and keeping it old Meridian. If we are going to go residential—I mean commercial, maybe we ought to zone it all commercial, but otherwise, I think we need to keep it residential. MacCoy: Any questions? Borup: You mentioned that truck traffic—what type of truck traffic is—just delivery trucks that type of thing? Roberts: You name it. There are dump trucks going, not just when they are doing the road over here. They take detours through there to go up to maybe Hal’s Meats or not even that… Borup: So you are talking large trucks, one ton and greater. Roberts: You name it, instead of diverting from 3rd , or going up to another, they use 2nd . Borup: Do you believe this application will increase the truck traffic. Roberts: Well, it would be some, yeah. Not only that, like I said, my child—we live just across the street, kitty corner just across the street there and the traffic right now is so bad and the near misses and accidents. The kids can hardly ride there bikes or anything out there. Borup: Well, I was trying to get a feel for what this project was going to do for that truck traffic. Roberts: I’m just worried that any additional traffic would just be additional to what we already feel as… Borup: So your concern would be more about the traffic, not the truck traffic from this project. Roberts: Right. Well, traffic in particular, I’m concerned about all the traffic. Borup: Thank you. MacCoy: Anyone else, go ahead. ENO TIDDENS, 213 E. 2ND STREET, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Tiddens: Well this is definitely an inappropriate use of this property. Right now it has about a seven year old home on it. It’s a beautiful home with a double garage, both the back yard and front yard are beautiful landscaped. It’s in a strictly residential area, there is no other piece of property on East King Street that is commercial. It’s all residential. The only commercial property close to us is all on East 1st Street, which is appropriate. We want to keep commercial out of there mainly because I feel that it will devaluate my property. Anytime you have a nice residential and you go putting a retail store in the neighborhood, this would devaluate it, which is proven by a fact that if you go to sell that house in a few years, that’s thoroughly one black mark against that house. So you won’t get as much out of the property as you should because of it going commercial. That’s my main objection to it. It’s not as much the traffic as it is just—it’ll just make it a more undesirable place for the people who live there, more noise, more air pollution and more traffic. Thank you. MacCoy: Any questions of him before he takes—none okay. Anybody else? Go ahead lady. Oh, got two ladies went up. EMMA SCHMIERER, 127 E. KING, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Schmierer: Well, I live right across the street from what came to be a store and I want to keep it residential. That’s what we need there and want nothing commercial in there. MacCoy: Is there anything else you have to offer? Schmierer: No, I just… MacCoy: Thank you very much, we understand what you are saying though. You’re next lady. TAMMY ZIMMER, 234 E. 2ND , MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Zimmer: My question is basically about sidewalks. Everybody seems to be concerned about sidewalks. You put sidewalks in front of this, he gets this residential and you put a sidewalk in front of him, on both sides of him there is no sidewalks. There is no sidewalk going to East 1st , there is no sidewalk going to East 2nd , all the sidewalks we have now are great big bundles of boulders that we can’t get nobody to fix anyway. So what is the sense of putting in a sidewalk one house long? MacCoy: Okay, let me turn this over to Shari. She has the answer to this. Stiles: Pedestrian walkways are a requirement of development when any other development comes into that area, they will be required to improve there section. Mr. Borup was involved in a project where he was required to put in a sidewalk in front of his building. After his building was approved, the parcel next to him put in a sidewalk and now Tate Rents is putting in a sidewalk all along that corridor, so it’s true that there would just be one section of sidewalk, but if you don’t at least get a section at a time, there will probably never be a sidewalk. Zimmer: I believe in sidewalks. I have a sidewalk (Inaudible) can’t get no attention to at all because we are in the old part and the tree roots have pushed it up. Just as a grandmother of five living on that corner, you have no sidewalks, you have all these crazy drivers and I’m talking about crazy, you have Meridian Lock and Key, we have the hub cap people, we have the Coca Cola Company— all those people zoom down those roads. Anybody is welcome to come sit in my house during the day, because I’m on the corner of King and 2nd and watch them fly by. So that’s why I protest. Thank you. MacCoy: Thank you, is there anyone else? Okay, back to the commissioners, what do you have for discussion? Nelson: I personally would be inclined to agree with the resident on all this. I want to set a precedent in old town and converting some homes over there to commercial use. I’d like the applicant to have an opportunity to respond to the residents. MacCoy: Would you like to come up please. Nelson: If he wants to respond to the residents. Hartz: Of course we are not planning on turning this into a—we don’t depend on traffic for our business. I doubt if we bring anymore traffic to the area than a doctors office. The fact is some doctors offices would bring much more than we do, since we do have a low traffic count. I just don’t feel that the traffic is a huge item. We are lower than—according to ACHD we are lower than 50 per day with our stated what we do for the (Inaudible) for business, so it’s not going to add an awful lot to the neighborhood. It would do a lot for us, simply because it is pretty property. We do want our customers to feel more at home and it’s larger than what we have. We do want to become a more permanent part of the community. We are leasing at this time and we started here, we want to continue here, but we are growing and we do plan on making our home if it’s possible here in Meridian. If we can do that, if you have any questions (Inaudible). Okay, I would certainly be able to answer—or be willing to answer any questions you may have. It seems to me that the type of business that we have would not be inappropriate, the property right next to that we are going into adjacent to us is owned by the lady that owns the herb tree. She owns kind of a dilapidated warehouse and then there is a condemned house right next to the property. So we are basically adjacent to commercial property. There are two lots between us, but the same lady owns them all and she plans on selling them as commercial. The house across from us is vacant and as I understand it has a lot of weeds and is run down, that is right behind the hub cap place. So we are not that far off of the beaten trap as far as business is concerned. It just seems to me that it would be an appropriate use. MacCoy: Mr. Nelson anything else for you? Nelson: No. (Inaudible) MacCoy: Any other commissioners want to discuss before we--okay, do you want to come back up. Rossman: If I may make a point real quickly before, anybody who wants to come up and offer rebuttal testimony, make sure it’s new testimony that you haven’t already—just don’t come up and restate what you said before, make sure it’s something new that you want to offer in response to what the applicant indicated. Tiddens: He says his business right now might be five to six people a day, but he’s expanding and hopes for increasing his business. How do we know from a year from now it’s 50 or 100 people coming in and out of there? As they expand? Also, (Inaudible) else I was going to say. It’s just an inappropriate use of property. Most people don’t want this here because it’s business and like he says he is next door to property that is on East 1st street that is old commercial. Well, the next people next year can say okay his property is commercial, I’m next door to this or I’m across the street from this, so why don’t you make us commercial. It can spread through there and I’ve got my life savings in this house, I retired about seven years ago. I bought this house and I’ve got my life savings wrapped up in it and I just hate to see it go to pots, when there is plenty of places to locate. Rossman: Sir, could you indicate in the microphone what your name was, just so the record is clear. Tiddens: My name is Eno Tiddens. MacCoy: We have another hand go up over here. Borup: Mr. Chairman, maybe just a point of clarification. As far as the zoning, all of this is old town. The business on East 1st are already zoning old town, it’s not a separate commercial zoning is my understanding. So a zoning—they are not asking for a zoning change. The zoning is already there. I think that was maybe misunderstood. MacCoy: He’s asking for a conditional use. I saw another hand go up here. Does anybody want to say anything? A rebuttal? Okay as the attorney has mentioned, use your name and lets move on. Roberts: I’m not sure if some of this hasn’t been mentioned. I’m a little unclear. My other concern I think somebody had mentioned, but I just—I don’t know. Another concern I have is my property value being right across the street. Also, if the rest of us say—I guess I’m unclear, is this commercial property then? All of this—all that is zoning old town is commercial? Is that true? Borup: Old town is a separate zoning designation by itself. Roberts: So it can be anything? Smith: Anything—there is some permitted—there is conditional use… Borup: Most of it is conditional use, there are a few permitted uses. It’s a mixed use type of thing they are talking about having public and cultural, financial and recreation and general business mixed in with high and low density residential. Roberts: Okay, I guess my concern was—had probably been aired about the value of the property also. Borup: So do you feel that commercial property sells for less than residential then? Roberts: You know, I’m not real sure, but I’m just thinking—I called the Planning and Zoning, I can’t remember who I talked to. I wanted to have a portable storage unit to put out there so I didn’t have to carry stuff out to the truck and haul it down and do all this stuff. I was told that I couldn’t do that even though it was temporary because, you know, Meridian wants to make sure that the street, you know, that they look good. I informed him, they haven’t been in our neighborhood, because down the street there are weeds growing up and you know. So, are we going to have some kind of commercial in our neighborhood, but we don’t want somebody to put something out here temporarily? I have a little problem with that so. I want to keep it residential, I guess is what I’m saying. MacCoy: Okay. Alright, thank you very much. (Inaudible) Tiddens: During the break I was talking with a gentleman back here and I think it was overlooked that they are going to put a sign up too, which anybody going through to look for a place to live or a place to buy will see that commercial sign and take it right as a commercial business. Whether they might not want to live that close to a commercial business. Especially with a sign up advertising it. MacCoy: It has to go before a sign committee in the first place before a sign will be granted. Anymore? Okay, we’ve heard our rebuttals. Commissioners, what is you desire? Smith: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to close this public hearing. Nelson: Second. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MacCoy: Okay, what’s you final viewpoint here? Nelson: What is the intent of old town? (Inaudible) history of Meridian, what’s the plan? Borup: I guess I could summarize what’s here in the zoning ordinance, maybe Shari—Do you want me to attempt and let Shari expand on it better, or maybe she ought to—as I read it here, it’s a short paragraph that says it’s to accommodate and encourage further expansion of the historical core of the community. They are talking about encourage renewal, vitalization, growth, and public and cultural and financial, recreational center of the city, says a variety of these uses integrated with general business, medium to high density residential and other related uses is encouraged, in an effort to provide the appropriate mix of activity. It goes on from that and says everything will be by conditional use. So it’s been my understanding that old town is to encourage a mixture. There is quite an area that is zoned as old town and I guess you know maybe in my mind some of it is more old town mixed use encouraged than others. I guess where do you draw that line between those areas and strictly residential, I don’t know. It’s hard to draw a line as things are growing and expanding. It is adjoining a property that is a business use right now. Smith: That would be west? Borup: The property to the west. Maybe something to encourage improvement of that property wouldn’t hurt. This might do that, I don’t know. Nelson: I have a question for Shari. From a planning standpoint, I know we’ve got the Comprehensive Plan provision through, what does the planning department—how do would they like to see old town developed? Because it almost needs to have a plan within old town as to what which part remains more residential and which part more commercial, in my mind. It’s pretty open ended right now. Smith: You mean vague? Nelson: Yeah, vague that’s a… Shari: I prefer not too constraining. Nelson: Not too constraining. Okay. In my mind I would be inclined to encourage the applicant to do what he is trying to do but in an area more appropriate, is there a plan, is there a direction, is there a vision? MacCoy: There is, let me point out this morning I went to a meeting, followed by a meeting which was called old town. There is a whole group of people and outsiders as well putting together a revised plan of what old town should look like in the future. The visionary plan and they are making considerable progress on this so that will be turned over to the mayor of our city at the end of this year as a formalized plan which will be sent out to the public for review and so on. Borup: That is something that would be incorporated in the Comprehensive Plan? Is that what they envision there? MacCoy: Yes, they are getting a head start because they know this is coming up. Borup: My point we just approved a project a month or go so that was the same distance off East 1st as this. A bridal saloon, which again was limited traffic. MacCoy: Well, we’ve denied some and we’ve passed some depending on how it fits the neighborhood. How we feel. Borup: I’ve seen more—I know probably the area between East 1st and Meridian is probably been more of the old town development than west of Meridian—I mean East—yeah west of Meridian and east of East 1st . It depends on how far out from the city center you are too. MacCoy: Let me just give you the information that there is a plan being put together right now so it will be presented to the mayor at the end of this year. It’s your choice what you want to do with this. Smith: Shari, is all the property south of King Street between East 1st and East 2nd , is that all currently residential use? Stiles: All of it? Smith: Between East 1st and East 2nd on the south side of King Street. Shari: No. There is a hub cap store right on East 1st Street. Smith: Okay, this map had me confused. Borup: The streets aren’t labeled. Smith: (Inaudible) Okay, I know where I am. Borup: Well, the streets aren’t labeled. Smith: I know that. Borup: Franklin is called Cottonwood or something. Smith: Right, I found Meridian Road and I was think that—okay, I know where I’m at. Then, what about the parcel right behind the hub cap place, is that commercial or residential? Stiles: I think it is residential, it is primarily residential beyond the first lot on east 1st Street. Borup: You get down to Bowers Street and it’s commercial, well, all the way till it ends, mixed in. Nelson: What’s the chances of half of this being commercial in the next five years anyway? Borup: Five years, I wouldn’t say they are great. I don’t think it’s going to grow that—I don’t think it’s going to happen that fast. The type of things that are going to go into this type of thing are going to be small type businesses. At least that’s what we’ve seen so far, something that is—I don’t know, it could be accountants office or things like that, but small type businesses that are looking at that major retail traffic, because they are just not going to be attracted to little places like this. De Weerd: Some more designation type of businesses. Borup: Well, that’s my guess, but what do I know? MacCoy: I think you are going to find that they are all homes businesses that will go in like attorney’s, CPA, and so on that will use the home as it is. Borup: Yeah, they are not going to tear it down, like north end of Boise. Nelson: Let me make this one last comment before I make a motion. Some of the other developments of this type where they’ve taken homes and want to make them commercial, in a lot of cases, the neighbors are almost encouraging it because they would like the value of their property to raise in a commercial fashion also. Here we have a case where most of the residents aren’t inclined to move that way, which for me would weigh heavier toward the denial. I haven’t seen anyone stand up here saying that as soon as this is approved that I’m looking at selling my house in two years. There you have it. Borup: The other aspect that was brought out, this is a conditional use permit. It’s not a permit commercial zoning, any other business that went in there would have to come back for another conditional use, if this business… MacCoy: That’s true. Borup: Well, maybe that’s a question. Nelson: They have their complaints probably. Borup: The applicant stated that the traffic is by appointment only, rather than a walk in type. I guess that could be made a condition of approval. I’m assuming that could be. It may be a little hard to enforce but that would be part of the conditional use. MacCoy: What’s that going to (Inaudible)? Borup: Neighbors too concerned about too much traffic. MacCoy: Well, the traffic could still increase if he gets to be well know to the point where they would beat a path to his door. Which every (Inaudible) would like to have, phone calls or not. Borup: I’m thinking out loud. De Weerd: I guess the considerations that I’m seeing is we need to remain sensitive to the residential flavor. Certainly, you wonder on the properties coming off of East 1st , how the resale value are—is in anything other than commercial, being so close to such a busy street and how those residences are kept up, would probably be another issue. I haven’t seen the property so I don’t know for that block stretch if those are well kept properties. The properties, except the property that is before us—I’ve heard someone mention that one is a boarded up house and in poor condition and the home on the other side across the street is weed infested and not kept well either. If businesses were to go in there and again, I wouldn’t imagine a business that depends on traffic driving by there going in those locations. They would be more service designation only type of businesses. At least those places would be kept up. Maybe those would keep your values for the residential. Or if you want to just try and see who buys those types of properties, I don’t know, that’s a hard call. (Inaudible) Rossman: Ma’am the public hearing has been closed, can’t have anymore testimony. De Weerd: But I guess those are the issues. I understand them wanting to keep their neighborhood residential and once you start commercial in there, it’s going to go commercial. Nelson: I’m inclined to make a motion that we send this to City Council with the recommendation for denial. De Weerd: Based on the lack of support from the local residents and the ambiguity of old town anyway. I think it’s appropriate. Smith: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: Three ayes, one nay. MacCoy: It’s approved. Mr. Attorney you can draft it that way to the council. Rossman: It will be in form of a recommendation to the City Council under the Meridian Planning and Zoning Ordinance there will not be another public hearing before the City Council. They will make there determination based upon the record that was submitted today. There are—under the Meridian Planning and Zoning Ordinance there will not be another public hearing before the Meridian City Council on this matter. It will be decided—their decision will be based solely upon the testimony at this hearing. There are appeal rights, that are set forth within the Planning and Zoning Ordinance that you can file an appeal. You can contact Shari Stiles office if you would like to review the ordinance. (Inaudible) MacCoy: Council, would you repeat the recommendation? Rossman: Yes, Commissioner Nelson raised a motion to send the matter on to the City Council with the recommendation of denial of the application and that motion was approved by a three to one vote. MacCoy: The speech is in your favor as homeowners, so it’s a good thing that you came out. Nelson: Just for the benefit of the audience, the City Council makes the final. MacCoy: (Inaudible) come forward and ask the question of what, us, or the… (Inaudible) MacCoy: The council just said it’s not an open meeting (Inaudible) it’s not a public hearing, you can go and listen to it, but it’s not a public hearing where you can speak. ITEM #14: REQUEST FOR AN ACCESSORY USE PERMIT FOR A PHOTOGRAPHY STUDIO IN BY MARK WIARS –860 E FINCH CREEK: MacCoy: Staff? Stiles: Mr. Chairman, commissioners you have our recommendations before you in your packets, hopefully, they were submitted late, you may not have had them until yesterday. We have made the standard comments for the majority of it and however, we do need some clarification on the use of the garage, how much of that garage is being used for a photography studio or being proposed to. There is an ordinance requirement that they have a garage capable of housing two vehicles if that is not the case with what they are proposing we would recommend that that be denied. MacCoy: Is that it? Stiles: Yes. MacCoy: Open the public hearing now, will the applicant come forward now please. MARK WIARS, 860 E. FINCH CREEK, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Wiars: My wife is a professional photographer. We recently, about a year and three months ago we moved into this house and we set up the garage as a photography studio. Unbeknownst to us and our neighborhood and matter of fact for a home based business you need an accessory use permit and we found out solely by chance that we need one and didn’t want to do anything dishonest so we went ahead and made the paperwork and filled out papers and started the process. As a professional photographer, she has about maybe three to five cars a week come to the house. Most professional photographers are portrait photographers is what she is. She is here at the schools or at churches for weddings, or down at the park for family portraits or things of that nature. She either will usually go to their house or at the school to go over pictures or through the mail or occasional they come to the house. As my wife said she spends more time at her girlfriends house than people that come to our house. (Inaudible) photographers in Boise, or the Boise area are home-based businesses. As I mentioned most of t he pictures are done off site. There was one objection raised to the accessory use permit. Unfortunately he is moving— according to the letter he stated that he had objections with opening a photography studio citing traffic concerns. Our business, or my wife’s studio is so unobtrusive that he didn’t realize that she had been doing business for over a year. He wasn’t aware of that. After I talked to him, he didn’t realize it and he also agreed that our neighbors kids, teenagers they park more cars and drive up and down a whole lot more than the one or two that my wife brings in. He was going to go ahead and contact the planning and zoning department and withdraw his objection, however, he was in the process of moving and probably with moving and selling his house, it appears he didn’t do as he said he was going to do to me. MacCoy: Excuse me, what is his name? De Weerd: Brian McDonald. MacCoy: I want to find out if that’s the letter that we have. (END OF TAPE) Wiars: …saying that traffic. She has known that we have had a home based business in there since we moved in. IN fact, there is other people who have it as well. She was willing to write a letter stating that there wasn’t any type of concern of traffic problems or anything like that and she has know the business has been in existence. The comments that were attached. I was given a phone call late last night and picked them up this morning. I was requested by Bill at the water—no, I was requested to tell Bill at the water department that Chip said to ignore his comments and he said if you had any questions give him a call. I called him at a quarter to five this afternoon and he said he was misunderstanding, he thought there was going to be development of chemicals and things of that nature in there and he didn’t realize it was just my wife taking pictures or people coming in to pick them up. MacCoy: Would you mind elaborating about how the business is run from the standpoint, the chemicals and… Wiars: There are no chemicals. A senior would come in—in fact I brought a couple of pictures I bet you probably have seen them up and down. A senior would come in and stand in front of—or sit in front of a backdrop, my wife has a couple of studio lights and stands. She takes the pictures, she sends it to—she uses Nickels which is a developing lab over by the airport and they develop it. She either drops them off at the school or they come back and pick it up. Then she takes them—for like senior pictures she takes them to the school. For weddings she goes to the church and she meets them at their house and finds out what they want to do and what type of pictures they want and to what extend some people just want snapshots, other people want everything recorded on film. MacCoy: I understand, but no processing though. Wiars: There is no processing at all. MacCoy: That’s the main thing. Wiars: It’s just snapshots, it’d be taking pictures. Then in the garage it’s set up where it’s all open. So the garage is totally. The garage doors are still there and pull cars in if we so desire—we’ve opted not to desire, but we can, there is no obstructions, no reconstruction per say over and above what the original house was built for. I only had one other concern or question, it was on here under title no. 2, the City of Meridian—I guess two of the Planning and Zoning from Bruce and Shari, item no. 2 said sanitary sewer and water facility and had some concerns. There is no additional—they come in and take a picture and leave. There is no additional water usage, or sewer (Inaudible) or anything of that nature. It’s a home based business, we are just trying to follow the law. MacCoy: Anything else? Wiars: No sir. MacCoy: Commissioners? Borup: Just one, it sounded like the only concern Shari really had was on the garage item. So you are saying that the garage is open and you can park two cars in there if you want to drive them in? Wiars: Correct. Borup: So it wouldn’t be any different than half the houses in town that have too much storage in there they can’t get a car in anyway. Wiars: Yes, a lot of our neighbors have that problem, or they are parking their boat in there or camper or something, yes. Borup: So there is no walls or other obstructions that would prevent a car from driving. Wiars: No, we deliberately set it up for resale purposes, where if we wanted to move a year or two or three years from now that there would be no problems with resale. Borup: Thank you. That’s all I have. MacCoy: Any other commissioners? It’s a public hearing, is there anybody here in favor? We’ll be talking to nobody pretty soon here. Anyone against this proposal? De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we close the public hearing. Smith: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we approve the accessory use permit for a photography studio. Smith: Second. Borup: Do you mean to recommend approval? No, this is accessory use. This doesn’t go to City Council does it? De Weerd: So do we order findings? Rossman: I believe that’s correct, it’s an accessory use, you have final authority, so you will need to have findings prepared and approved at the next public hearing, or next meeting. De Weerd: Okay, I’ll withdraw that motion. MacCoy: Okay, let make another motion. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we ask the city attorney to draw up Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law to approve the accessory use permit. Smith: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MacCoy: You can go home and tell your wife she has a place to work. Rossman: Mr. Chairman, a point of clarification, was the comment regarding one of the departments comments as not being applicable, so we can follow up on that, which one was that? MacCoy: That was water. Rossman: Water department? Okay. Borup: I thought it was sewer. Oh, on the reduce pressure back flow assembly. MacCoy: We have both directions, we have the use of water, plus. (Inaudible) quantities… Borup: They could pressurize irrigation there. MacCoy: I think that is probably true, but that’s water control. Borup: That’s from the sewer department. ITEM NO. 15: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING OF .96 ACRES (OLSON BUSH INDUSTRIAL PARK) BY RAY ROBNETT – 3036 LANARK STREET: MacCoy: Staff? Stiles: Mr. Chairman, commissioners you have in your packets our comments. The comments that we have made are based mainly on the existing conditions here and ordinance requirements the applicant may have some comments on some problems he has. I think his main problem has to do probably with the Evans Drain that is located adjacent to the railroad tracks at the northern boundary of this property, but other than that, he can address if he has any problems with these comments. MacCoy: Is that it? Stiles: Yes. MacCoy: Is the applicant here? Come forward please. RAY ROBNETT, 1011 S. STAR ROAD, STAR, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ATTORNEY. Robnett: We’ve requested for this property at 3036 Lanark to be annexed into the city. The primary reason for that is because we need water hook up, water meter to the property. This project has quite a history to it, not all real charming history, but none the less, we came into Meridian City. If you know where Lanark is you know where YMC is and Ron Van Auker’s office over there just off of Eagle Road, a little street there. I was sure that was in the City of Meridian so I came down and requested for—would like to make application for a building permit and at that time I was told that it was not Meridian City, but Ada County. I went down to Ada County and they said yes that is our jurisdiction and you need to do a traffic development study on the property and then we can issue a building permit on it. So we paid the fee, spent two months—Ada County Highway District did their traffic development study, we’re required to put sidewalks in front. They only have three employees there, so it didn’t have an adverse impact on the little infrastructure street there or Eagle Road. We got all finished with that and that took several months and I spent about $10,000 on architectural plans and engineering, they called me, they said your permits are ready to pick up. The owner in the mean time had given notice, he’s been 15 years down on Front Street and had given notice there, the bank loan is done— we are all ready to go and they said by the way you need to get your letter from Meridian City giving you water from Central District Health approving your septic system and from the Nampa/Meridian drainage system for the drainage. We did all of the Central District Health, that was just getting our septic tank approved. There is going to be sewer there that thing I was talking to Bruce and that is in fact going to happen. We went ahead and spent $1,000 at above ground sand mound system approved in the event that this thing doesn’t go through. Central District Health was okay with that. Nampa/Meridian has been notified three times on this project. Two traffic development studies that I had to do—didn’t do the first one right, the second one we got right. Then for this meeting here tonight. Then I came to Bruce and I said before I had even started the project, I called up—I’ve done this, it’s all I’ve ever done in my life as a builder. I’ve done it for 25 years. I miss some things, but usually I try to be pretty thorough. We do about three or four of these buildings a year and that’s it. We are not big operators. So in covering my bases, I called and I said what do we do to get a water meter and he said you either have to annex into the city or pay double hook up fees. He said if I remember right, $700. I said okay fine. So knowing that I had to either annex into the city which I didn’t want to do, then I’ll just pay the double hook up fees. When I come down, I just walked into his office with my checkbook and I was going to pay the double hookup fees so I can get my letter. Bruce informed me that he not only could not give me a letter, but that I had been denied a water meter at all. I had never been notified of any public hearing regarding a water meter. I’d never been told that that choice to either annex into the city or pay double fees was not my choice, but it was either the commissioners or the City Council’s decision. I think that went before City Council, right Bruce? I’m not saying that he misinformed me, there was just a little bit more to the story. When I did this annexation and applied for this annexation, I stopped and talked in Shari’s office there to Brad and I said Brad if someone has a piece of property and they’re in the county but they are next to Meridian City and they gotta have Meridian City water, how do you do that? He said you have to either annex into the city or pay double fees. I said really? And he says yeah really, you just pay double fees or you annex in. That’s the truth, but that’s not what I’m allowed to do. So here I am down there, I’m in Ada County, this building is built and the way these conditions of approval are read, we are laying carpet in on Friday. The staff comments is they are made in such a way that I’m going to build this thing and I’ll meet all the conditions that Meridian City has. Well, as I read through them, I think the ones that really have concerns, setbacks, parking and landscaping and everything, we meet all those fine. I needed to get my letter. I went to the mayor and I explained my dilemma to him and he said if you will get me a letter from the owner of the property stating that you will annex into the city, then I will give you a letter saying—I will give you that Meridian City will not deny you water. The letter that I got from Mr. Mark Nelson the owner, says I’m Mark Nelson owner of Wheel City Inc. of Idaho do willfully agree to the annexation of 3036 Lanark, Lot 4, Block 1, Olson Bush Industrial Park, City of Meridian annex to the city of Meridian, I am the owner of the above described property. We will comply with all landscaping and parking as described by the City of Meridian, thank you for your timely consideration of this matter and we will be excellent contributers to the area in the City of Meridian. I gave that—this letter is addressed to Robert Corrie. I gave that to him, when he had that in hand, he gave him a letter, I went down to Ada County I got a permit and I built the building. When I—what I thought the annexation, the extend of it would be that I’m just taking my property and putting it into Meridian City, because it’s Meridian City all around. There is this little island that is Ada County. I thought it would be a fairly simple procedure. Some of the requirements that we’ve been asked to comply with City of Meridian owns and maintains the water line and Lanark adjacent to the subject site at this time the sewer is not available, however, the Van Auker sewer extension will provide sewer to the site. The applicant went before City Council to request service while outside of the city limits. The City Council denied the applications, staff has not been informed of a reversal of denial of City Council. It may be that annexation can take place prior to water service being needed. We don’t need water service till around December. You know, we’ve got another month. I don’t know how long it takes to get the annexation. I did get a letter from the mayor saying that I could have a water meter. I have a fire hydrant right on the corner of my property. I have a letter in here saying that it does not—the fire department has no problem with it as far as the water is concerned. I understand that it’s kind of like the twilight zone, I really been trying to work with it. It’s extremely frustrating, we are a small operation--It’s me, my wife, we’ve got two boys and my brother. To take—Shari kind of implied when I first come up with the problem I sit down and had a meeting with them. They said, well, just get everything back from Ada County, annex it in from the City of Meridian and then go back to the City of Meridian and reapply for your building permit. Well, that’s a six month void in my work schedule. I don’t have--I’m not like Stead (sic) or somebody that’s got a bunch of buildings going. I’ve got this one, when this is done, I’ll go to the next one. I can not stop, or could not stop and address all of this at the time. That’s one of the conditions, I don’t know, what does that mean? Does that mean I’m going to get a water meter after I’m annexed into the city? Does it mean that I’m going to—you know, the mayor asked me to—he says will you meet all the landscaping requirements and all the parking requirements? They want a 35 foot setback from the frontage, well, we are 40 foot. We are 10 foot from property line, we’ve got a letter here from Central District Health saying that we are okay. I’ve got a letter from the fire department—the Meridian Fire Department will not have a problem with this annexation or zoning. The Nampa/Meridian Irrigation, they have no comment on this because they’ve already commented on it twice. They have no problem with it. I have that letter that I can show you where they said it’s fine, they are not requiring us to tile the ditch, they don’t want the ditch tiled. They said if we do tile it and want to park on it, that’s okay, but that’s a $15,00 dollar item to tile that ditch because it’s got to be a 48 inch pipe. I’ve got—oh here’s one that really concerns me from the water department, it says the city needs to develop another water source before anymore development takes place in this area. Now, I’ve got a water/fire hydrant on the corner of my property. I’ve got a brand spanking new 8-10-12 inch line, 10 inch line in front of my property, it’s about two years old. I’ve got the fire department that says it’s okay. Meridian—or Ada County gave me a building permit and I don’t know what—this could mean a lot of things. The city needs to develop another water source, I know that there’s Van Aukers next door and he’s on a well. We do have city water and we are going to have city sewer. If any of you drove by the project, it’s a nice building. We’ve taken to our neighbors around there for this annexation, we’ve shown them site plans, colors, we’ve worked with them. Everybody is please with the building. I would not be here before you tonight requesting an annexation if I had understood or had gotten a more direct answer on my original question. What do I need to do to get water service to my property. It was said that you either annex into the city or pay double fees. On this project $700 wouldn’t have hurt us, we could have just paid that and that’s all I thought we needed. I really feel like—you know, this is my life, this is what I do. I feel like someone is playing ping pong with it between Meridian and Ada County and I go down there and I meet all their requirements. Shari and Bru---I’m just being factual here about stuff. I’m not saying that they did do, didn’t do, but all of this stuff that I’m talking about is just factual stuff about—I don’t even know how much my—excuse me, I know it’s late and I’ll try and be brief. I don’t know if it’s best to be first or last, but I wound up being last and I really feel like I need to say what I come to say. I’ve been about six or seven months in this, I don’t even know what my latecomers fees are going to be on my water line. During that course I’ve called Bruce five, six, seven times— take your time, I’m not in a big hurry, but I do need to know. To this day I do not know what my latecomer fees are going to be on that water line. During any of those conversations, I was never told, by the way Ray, you are not going to get a water meter. You are not going to—you know, it’s something that we decide or you have to be annexed into the city or anything, not that he had to give me that information, but I feel like, not willfully, there is a lot that I could‘ve been told that would’ve never brought me to this. I’m annexing into the city. I think it’s a great thing. It probably needs to be done. Clean up the area a little bit. I feel like we are doing it , we’re meeting most of the conditions, all the building department issues, I don’t have a problem with any of those. You know, we are not building a substandard building or any of block construction. We are ten feet away from property lines. Some of these conditions, I just have a problem with. Smith: Mr. Robnett, if I might interrupt you just a moment here. Robnett: You sure can. Smith: You are starting to repeat yourself and it is getting late, but on one hand you’ve gone through this dissertation on how your only concern is getting hooked into water and you were told you have to annex into the city because—or you have to pay double hook-up fees, but there seems to be some kind of glitch in there. Now you are starting to talk about you have a problem with these conditions about being annexed into the city. I guess that I’m just confused here on about what the whole issue is here and maybe Bruce… (Inaudible) Smith: We’ve heard this on other applications tonight already. If you don’t annex into the city you are paying double hook-up. If he doesn’t annex into the city, is it true he can’t get a water meter off the city? Freckleton: Commissioner Smith, members of the commission, the procedure is if you are outside the city limits and you want water service, you pay the double hook-up fee but it has to be under the approval of the City Council. City Council has to approve connections outside the city limits. During this whole process, someone understood that because the owner of the building wrote a letter requesting, making that request to City Council. It went to City Council, it was denied. (Inaudible) Borup: Could you elaborate on why it was denied? I don’t think that has been brought out, does anybody know? Freckleton: I’ll let Shari address that. (Unknown): It was recommended for approval wasn’t it Bruce? Shari: No. Freckleton: I wrote a memo to the city clerk, he wrote me a memo asking me what my recommendation would be. I recommended that the property should be annexed, that should be the proper procedure. That way the application goes through the city for building permit, it would be built to city standards, parking requirements, landscape requirements, signage, the gamut. That was my recommendation. Robnett: See my understanding was that I could pay double fees, I’ll give you $700 dollars more, I get my permit at Ada County and we are not having this discussion. Borup: You never understood that it had to be approved by City Council. Robnett: Absolutely not, the letter that he’s talking about that got written was written by the city engineer. That actually was written to them, we did make the application, but it was not till the whole process was already foregone and well under way. Borup: I think Shari is going to comment on why City Council denied it. Stiles: Part of the reason that they denied it was that Van Auker had come in and wanted a building permit on some of the property that they already annexed. City Council said until the sewer is there we are no going to allow any building permits in the area. So when he came in with his request they saw that, you know, further ammunition to try to get that sewer line through, I believe. Just because they denied the Van Auker building permit, felt they also needed to deny this one. Borup: What’s the status of the sewer line now? Stiles: Hopefully construction within the next 90 days. De Weerd: They denied it after Ada County had approved his building and sent everything else. Stiles: It was during the same process. Robnett: See Ada County is where I make application for building permit because the lot is in Ada County. Stiles: But Mr. Robnett is also well aware that if this comes up again he’ll come to the city first. Robnett: It doesn’t go without learning something, I agree. De Weerd: The process you went through, you got a letter from the city saying that you would have that hook-up and that’s how you got your building permit in Ada County. Robnett: I got a letter from the mayor. Borup: It appears the mayor wrote a letter and didn’t have the authority to really… De Weerd: The mayor should have said I don’t have the authority to do this. Smith: Bruce can you talk to the comment by the water district that the city needs development of their water service before any development can take place in this area. Borup: I have a question on that too. (Inaudible) Freckleton: It could be a 24 inch but still if you don’t have the flow and the volume, it’s not there. Borup: Is this (Inaudible) waters source for family center? The same water line? Freckleton: It’s south of… Borup: Is it tied in? Freckleton: We have a pressure zone in the west or eastern end of town there. Borup: My concern is if there is not enough water for this, do we have enough water for the family center? Freckleton: We are in the process of acquiring a well off of Franklin Road. It’s our hopes that that will alleviate this problem and Gary Smith is working on that. We are also working with consultants. We are trying to bring a water main across the interstate, which will connect up another pressure zone we have on the south side of the interstate to this side. All of these projects are all to alleviate this pressure flow problem. Borup: My questions still is if—a business with three employees is going to cause a hardship but a 800,000 foot complex doesn’t? Freckleton: I would agree that this is a pretty minimal impact, compared to the family center. De Weerd: Because of that… Borup: The family center needs the same—I mean the water applies more to that than this. Freckleton: Correct. Borup: But either way it’s still (Inaudible)… Freckleton: Correct. We have had some discussions with the developer of the family center regarding a well site. Robnett: So then the problem is being—in process of being solved? Freckleton: I believe that we are working on it, yeah. (Inaudible) Borup: Mr. Robnett you said there are 15 items on staff recommendations. Care (Inaudible) problems with some of those? Robnett: Well, staff is uncertain if all city ordinances are being met and request that plans be provided to the city, even though Ada County may have already issued a building permit. They’ve not only issued a building permit, the building is done. Borup: Well, but—how can staff state that any different. Without seeing the plans there is no way they’d know if it met all the city ordinances. Robnett: Well, I agree with that, but what if there is something there that they do not like? I’m in Ada County, the lot is in Ada County. Borup: You address that at that time. Robnett: I agree with that, but do you see where I’m coming from Keith? I mean I’m over there in Ada County, I pulled out the (Inaudible)… Borup: No, I understand. Robnett: I’ve built it just like Ada County said to do it. Borup: Is that the only one that you’ve got a question on. Robnett: I don’t think there is a real—I’ve made all the setbacks, I talked to Shari about all the setbacks, I meet those. Borup: Then there is probably not a concern. A lot of stuff they do is stuff that needs to be stated. Robnett: Everything else… Borup: To me you haven’t really brought up anything that sounds like a problem with any of staff comments. Robnett: I agree. Borup: Okay. I still—you know what I’m wondering? Why are we annexing one lot at a time? Why are the whole subdivision annexed at once? Robnett: I think this is the last lot. Borup: Not according to the plat that you submitted, or is in our packet. Freckleton: There are two additional lots west of this particular lot before you get to what is Olson Bush No. 2. That annexation for Olson Bush No.2 came in about—just guessing, I think it was about three years ago, two or three years ago. Borup: Okay, the plat we’ve got shows them one to the south Side 5 De Weerd: Okay, I second that. MacCoy: Did you get the first part? All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MacCoy: Shari will write a letter. ITEM NO. 18: ADA COUNTY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES – RE: 98-27-ZC RICK LEININGER: Stiles: I would also recommend denial. Our Comprehensive Plan requires that all properties within our impact area that are not served by municipal sewer and water will be limited to five acre minimums. It doesn’t matter if it’s the one you know Will. Borup: We talked about this at the workshop a little bit, not about this, but about—opportunity for larger lots, but that needs to be addressed in the Comprehensive Plan, is that what you are saying? Stile: I think—in our area of impact within annexed areas that we are proposing for development to have some larger lots. I don’t think just because there is a one acre subdivision across the street that that’s a reason. A reason for having that five acre minimum in our Comprehensive Plan is the very fact that Ada County went out and chopped everything up. Anybody that walked into the door with one acre subdivision was approved. It’s going to be impossible to develop that to urban standards and provide sewer and water because nobody is going to want to do it because they’ve got their septic. It’s very cost prohibitive to provide municipal services to those sites once we actually have services out there. Borup: For acre lots. MacCoy: Okay, where is my motion? Borup: We look at what Eagle is doing and… Smith: I don’t know that I agree. Borup: Well, this is probably too close in. Smith: At the point in time where you start annexing in all these one acre subdivisions, does it make sense to have to start running municipal water out to them if they have adequate wells on site? Borup: It depends on what is around it. This is pretty close in, well maybe it’s not that close in. I think we need somewhere in our Comprehensive Plan to allow for some estate size lots. MacCoy: We’re going to have to get it, we know that. Borup: This may not be the area that it’s appropriate for… Unknown: It’s past Ten Mile… Borup: Well, that’s appropriate then. Oh, that’s right, this is Overland, for some reason I thought this was Cherry Lane. It’s clear out in the boonies. We are never going to have services out there. MacCoy: What do you want me to do Keith. Stiles: If this property was across the street it would be a ten acre minimum. Borup: Across the street from where? Stiles: To the west. Borup: On the other side of Nola? Stiles: Actually on our impact area boundary line. Borup: They are trying to—oh, I’m sorry I had this mixed up with the one that is coming before us next month. I got ahead of myself. They’re just trying to get a place for their kids to live there with them. This is clear out on the top of Overland and Ten Mile. I don’t have a problem with it. Smith: I don’t have a problem with it. Stiles: Then you better change the Comprehensive Plan. Borup: Well, grandpa is trying to get their kids with him. Stiles: They could try for a temporary living quarters then. You can’t recommend this if it doesn’t comply with the Comprehensive Plan. I will not write a letter recommending approval for this. Nelson: Because they have other avenues if they want to build a temporary home. Smith: Why didn’t you say that at the beginning? Stiles: I did. MacCoy: She did, nobody’s listened to her. Smith: No, earlier she said she recommends, now she says she will not. She could’ve made this a lot easier. I’ll make a motion that we deny this application and direct Shari to write a letter to Ada County stating because it does not comply with the Meridian Comprehensive Plan. Nelson: Second. Borup: Now why, well I was at the Ada County talking to a planner just two days ago. I think they understand that, why didn’t they tell these people that it doesn’t comply with the Comprehensive Plan. Stiles: It depends on which planner they talk to. Borup: Okay. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Nelson: I would like to make a motion that we adjourn. Smith: Second. Borup: Well, I’ve got one question if I may about that—Shari, did you ever receive a letter from Ms. JoAnn Butler? Stiles: About what? Borup: An apology letter. Stiles: Some half-baked apology letter, I think one was sent to me, I think the attorney got one. It didn’t out and out admit total lies, but… De Weerd: I want one. Borup: Okay I understood that she was directed to submit an apology letter to you and to this commission, but… Stiles: I think Bill got a copy. Rossman: Along those lines, she did ask me if she could send a letter to the commissioners and I told her she couldn’t. She had to go through City Council. I didn’t give it to you because it wasn’t part of the record. If you want it, I’ll give it to you now. De Weerd: I would. Berg: Did she write one to City Council? Rossman: Yes, I got one, it wasn’t much of an apology, it was more of an explanation. Borup: She didn’t stand before City Council and deny things six times in a row. Smith: She lied. Stiles: She lied. Smith: An attorney? De Weerd: As hard as that is to believe. Smith: Did we have a motion to adjourn? I move that we adjourn. Nelson: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.