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1998 08-31PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING August 31, 1998 The special meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Malcolm MacCoy at 7:00 P.M. MEMBER PRESENT: Malcolm MacCoy, Keith Borup, Tammy De Weerd, Mark Nelson. OTHERS PRESENT: Shari Stiles, Will Berg, Bruce Freckleton, John Prior, Eric Rossman. ITEM NO. 1: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN OFFICE, UPSTAIRS APARTMENT AND POSSIBLY RETAIL USE BY JOSEPH A. JOHNSON – 46 E. PINE: MacCoy: Is Mr. Johnson here this evening? JOSEPH A. JOHNSON, 4375 ROSEVILLE COURT, BOISE. WAS SWORN IN BY ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Prior: Sir, is there something you would like to offer us today? MacCoy: The floor is yours right now. Johnson: Thank you for the special meeting, I appreciate it. My application for rezone pretty much as stands. I made a request for two curb cuts, ACHD, I’m quite certain that they will not approve two curb cuts, I still would like to have—if they will not allow two curb cuts, to maintain one curb cut. Primary idea, is that they houses sit back on East Pine street going toward Meridian. Our set back as much, if not more than mine the next three houses, that this entryway as this area would continue I assume follow, divisions (Inaudible) and try and maintain the semblance of the town that we have and be converted to commercial. This driveway could be accessed for these other properties on down. Going from a 12 foot access off of Pine Street would require that we go to two cars so that they are double width, I think that’s 16 feet. So that the cars can pass and actually gain access, not only from my property but as other conversions happen, which will through the time. Then this could be access also for the other two or three places. Again, that’s in the future. We—they have requested that we curb and gutter in the front of the building. The present curbing is asphalt curb, there is no gutter. They have requested that we replace the sidewalk in front of out place. I would like to make an appeal to ACHD again and the neighborhoods program, that sidewalk itself should be completed. Hopefully not at my expense, from one end to the other. Ours is probably in as good as shape if not better than the rest of the sidewalk. If you all have ever walked on that street so the shed in the back is going to be left for storage and additional workspace. I’ve sought and hopefully achieved a very fine tenant for the building that would be a first class MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 2 wedding dress shop. The people new to the area, the husband is from this area however, the wife is from the south and has attitudes to making a real first class operation and I believe that this is again keeping with visions and what we need. The parking, I do need, the parking access off the front for—because we are converting the whole first floor to ADA specifications. We’re meeting and are working with (Inaudible) and Shari and everybody else in regard to being patient and holding back and not going ahead prior to. I’ve opened up everything, we’re replacing (Inaudible) sewer, or the water, electrical and water lines, electrical and heating conditions to specifications that have been set forth by P&Z so or department regulations. MacCoy: Anything else you want to add. Johnson: I don’t think so. MacCoy: Okay will you stay there a few minutes. Commissioners? Do you have any questions for the applicant. Borup: I have one Mr. Johnson, you say—we have not received any information from ACHD so I take it, have you received anything in writing from them, at this point either? Johnson: I received one initially, not granting the curb cut. I have since had an ACHD inspector that handles this area. Look at the property and he can understand my concerns too because in the front of that building, access to the building on part of Tuesday morning and then Wednesday morning when the Nazarenes have their women’s meeting and also their bible study. We do have a hard time parking in front which, again this request, not only for these handicap specifications, that we do feel it kind of necessary that we are able to maintain two parking spaces in front to service clients, customers. Borup: So ACHD did not approve any access at all from… Johnson: At this point, no. I have a call into Larry, I have (Inaudible). I have not had… Borup: So he wants the existing driveway? Is there, don’t you… Johnson: No, and this is the only application that has come before P&Z for a curb cut. Borup: Did they say why? Are you too close to the intersection, is that the reason? Johnson: No sir, in this regard we would be—the driveway… MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 3 Borup: You’re only 150 feet. Johnson: The first lot is 60 feet, the parking lot that the Nazarene church has is 60 and this is 80 feet. This lot size is 80 feet and we would be on the west hand side, which is going to be under the 150 foot that I understood was 125. Then we would in fact, be in alignment with ACHD. Otherwise you are going to have problems parking in there for other business as they come along. Borup: I understood they were 150 feet and have to have two, probably have a hard time getting that approved, but one. Johnson: I do not disagree with you. I don’t know, I—maybe Shari knows. Borup: Now are you looking at—in fact, I had a…Shari, staff had a couple comments on the amount of parking spaces. MacCoy: Commissioner Borup, I’ve just been informed that Shari is making copies for us right now for ACHD report. Borup: Oh, has there been a later report? Johnson: In the earlier report they had denied me the curb cut, I’m still trying and again will say that I’ve had calls into Mr. Sale. I’ve had calls into the local inspector Chance, I can’t remember his last name… Borup: That’s alright, I think we’ll—I had a question for Shari on the parking. You mentioned five on office, eight on retail. Is that considering the square footage of the building and my question would be then, if it was partial office and partial retail, then would that be reallocated between that footage? Is that how that would work? Stiles: Yes, that would be the one for 400 for the office use, and one to 200 for the retail use, depending on how they… Borup: So eight would be 100% retail. Stiles: Yes. Borup: Mr. Johnson you’re looking at doing some of both retail and office. Johnson: Yes, the— Borup: …from reality the allocation will probably be somewhere between the five and eight, which only leaves us six or seven. So it looks like you are still, do you understand you are still short on parking spaces too then? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 4 Johnson: Did I understand that we were. Borup: Is that your understanding? Johnson: These people are living in the upstairs apartment. Borup: Okay, it looks like you have six indicated here now it looks like. (Inaudible) Johnson: Now, we are required to meet the ADA specifications and that door bathroom has been enlarged to make itself available. Borup: Yeah, the building department will be checking also. Johnson: Also, the parking in front, I still would like to go back to the ACHD and try and request and get approval for that curb cut, because it only makes sense for having to meet handicap specifications, then not being able to furnish parking for them. I can’t do that on Pine Street, directly and these would be probably employees because of the expansion of Pine for usage. Borup: Thank you, that’s all I had Mr. Chairman. MacCoy: Mrs. De Weerd? De Weerd: I have none. MacCoy: Mr. Nelson? Nelson: I have no questions. MacCoy: This is an open hearing, you can sit down we’ll see if anybody here has anything to add. Is there anybody from the public that would like to get up and speak either direction in his behalf, or put in a statement? If there is none, I’m going to close the public hearing. Borup: Do we need, I wouldn’t mind a little bit of discussion. MacCoy: Okay, lets have a discussion commissioners. Borup: Maybe Shari may add some light on it too, but I’d have to agree with Mr. Johnson. I don’t understand ACHD not allowing any access to Pine. MacCoy: I agree with you reading this material. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 5 Borup: I mean from past experience, I know that they are not going to allow two accesses, but they didn’t seem to rationalize any reason for not allowing any at all. MacCoy: No, I think he’s right in… Borup: Now they are talking about adding new curb, gutter sidewalk, but not even allowing an access point. MacCoy: I think he’s correct in asking for a review. Borup: Any direction on that staff? MacCoy: Shari? Stiles: Commissioners, as you know, Ada County Highway District has such restrictive requirements that it almost makes some property useless. While they are denying Mr. Johnson a right to an access for his property, they don’t take into consideration the fact that there is already a illegal accesses all along that whole section. They have their policy requirements 220 feet from an intersection that is signalize and still 220 feet only allowed a right turn in, right turn out only. If they wanted a full access driveway, they would have to be 440 feet from the intersection. So their basically forcing all the access to come down the alley and they’ve also requested that Mr. Johnson pave the alley that is not even adjacent to his property. So, that’s—they are going by their policy whether it has any common sense or logic behind it, don’t know. Borup: Well that clarified my question as the 220 and the 440 it’s different from a signalized intersection, so that… MacCoy: Anything else? Borup: I don’t know that we are bound to require everything ACHD are we? MacCoy: No we are not. Borup: Other than, Pine is going to be a fairly major road. MacCoy: It will be. Borup: And more so in the future. I know from other uses in old town, have had to do curb, gutter, sidewalks, etc for their usage, so I don’t know if I’ve got a concern with that. I think he needs some type of access from Pine. MacCoy: Let me ask this, Shari and Bruce? In the past history, that’s not very long ago anyway, when ACHD has made requests that we feel are not fair to the MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 6 applicant, have we ever written from the city standpoint to support the applicant in saying that it should be re-reviewed and supports his reviewing request? Stiles: I don’t know of any recent, since I’ve been here, actually writing a letter to Ada Highway County District. We have I guess you could say disregarded what their comments were, but in this case, since they are required to perform work in the right of way they would have to obtain a right of way permit from Ada County Highway District. Which we would have no control over. I mean—Mr. Johnson could’ve gone ahead and added the driveway approaches, as other people have along the street, you know, he’s trying to do things the right way and go through the process and sometimes you’re penalized for doing that. MacCoy: That’s my point to you. The standpoint, is there anyway we can support him in his position to say we think he is correct or right in doing what it is. The fact that he’s trying to live by the law, but the law is being exercised in such a way, that it’s actually hindering the applicant? Nelson: I think that would imply that we are encouraging him to break the law, is that what you’re saying? MacCoy: I would do it legally. I just think for a re-review is what I’m requesting, he’s asked for a re-review as I understand it, is that right? Johnson: I’ve tried to, but I haven’t been able to even get a return phone call. MacCoy: Well, that sounds great. Stiles: If that would be your recommendation, then I would have no problem writing a letter saying that we supported his application and ask them to consider a variance or waiver of that policy requirement. MacCoy: That’s my point, Commissioner Borup, what do you think of that? Borup: Yes, I think that would be appropriate, I don’t know if I’m saying the two access points, or do you feel that would be better than the single? Stiles: I guess I would like to see a different layout that showed they had some access from the alley to get back to Pine then. Because it’s not going to do any good to have an access onto Pine Street if they’ve got it back up into it. They could make a little turn around there, but basically they would only have room for the handicap space and then have some kind of hammer head configuration so they could back out and come back out onto Pine. It seems like a big expense for one space. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 7 Borup: Maybe I’m confused on that 40 foot measurement. Is the line there where the landscaping shrubs are, is that the sidewalk? I was mistaken on how much room there was there. Johnson: There is an 80 foot frontage onto Pine Street. Borup: Now they’re going to set back from the road. Johnson: The actual setback to the sidewalk? Borup: Well you’ve got 40 feet. Is that setback to your property line? I assume, that was my assumption was. You are showing 40 feet from here to here, what’s this line right here? Johnson: This is what we assume as the property line, this would be landscaping here, this would give us 19 feet in this area here. Borup: That’s giving a 20 foot landscaping between your property and the road, is that what you’re trying? Johnson: Approximately 20-21. Now this, I seriously doubt and I would like, I do need to entry wise, if I don’t have one here, I would have to widen this one. Borup: Well that was my—Shari, do you, are you asking for 20 foot landscaping strip along the front of the property? Stiles: I wasn’t requesting that, no. Borup: So this area could become parking, is what I’m wondering. Johnson: I seriously doubt it would if it did. It would go from angular to… Borup: You probably wouldn’t be able to perpendic (sic), you would probably do angular. Johnson: The reason I’ve (Inaudible) I seriously doubt it if I could get angular parking or that would be permitted. As Pine Street is and will be the second longest thorough (Inaudible) names as streets as Franklin. It’s going to be a busy one. Borup: Thank you. Johnson: Did I answer your question? Borup: I’m not sure how we can help you at this point yet. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 8 Johnson: To connect this to back there, I don’t have real deep pockets and the more we talk about this, with what I have to comply and do the behind the Nazarene church here and what I have to do behind my property, and then to do this. In some way, I still have to apply with ADA and financially it becomes certain limits as to what I can really afford to do. Borup: Well we understand that, that’s why we’re trying to find out where we can help you and to what extent we can go. Johnson: I appreciate that. To widen this and do away with this, there maybe even—I doubt that an ADA handicap parking is going to be used constantly and continually. There is that access, could this be enlarged by removing a tree that is already here so that we would someway have somewhere that they could pull in and back and then around. Borup: That’s what it may need to be. Turn around space. Johnson: To go back clear back here… Borup: Remove more trees. Johnson: Big ones, Catalpas. Borup: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, we’d like staff to write us a support letter and then where do we go from here? MacCoy: Okay, what do you want the support letter to say? Borup: At this point, I guess I would say access to Pine and whatever, probably one access, I don’t know, whatever they feel justified, they are the experts in that. Some access to Pine, if they would rather…One way in and out, or one large. Whatever they feel would be most appropriate. MacCoy: Well, you could state in the letter the OR’s this, this, this, and they could select one, that way you’re asking them for something. Is that what you are after? Borup: I think so. MacCoy: Shari, does that sound logical? Borup: I mean we are kind of caught between. Stiles: Sure. MacCoy: Follow what he’s saying? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 9 Stiles: You want me to send a letter to Ada County Highway District supporting one access to Pine so they’ve got some kind of driveway access to Pine. Borup: Yes, whether it’s one 30 foot or the two 12. Stiles: Okay. MacCoy: Okay, do you want to make a motion to that now that’s what you want? Borup: I’d still move on the letter. I’m not sure where do we proceed from here. MacCoy: Well, we need a second on that first. De Weerd: You need a motion on that letter? Prior: No you don’t. Borup: On the letter? MacCoy: You don’t? We have in the past, so I (Inaudible). Borup: We need a motion to proceed if we are going to go to findings or whatever. Nelson: Before we do that, are we doing this side a disservice if they do get access to Pine but it’s—it doesn’t really work, and… Borup: Can’t comply with the rest of the requirements, I think that’s something the applicant to see what they can work out. Something’s don’t always work. Mr. Chairman, I have a question for our attorney. Mr. Prior, is there enough information here to prepare findings? Prior: I haven’t heard a motion to prepare findings. Borup: Well no, I’m saying if we did. Prior: I think what you’re asking is, you’re asking Shari to send a letter to ACHD to request that they reconsider their access off Pine Avenue. If they don’t grant that, you folks are really, he can’t put a road on that right-of-way. That’s ACHD’s right-of-way. You can’t ask him—you can approve a conditional use permit, you just can’t have access on Pine. That’s really where he’s at. Borup: We could still approve the conditional use permit and then whatever could be worked out with ACHD. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 10 Prior: Subject to ACHD. Borup: Which we don’t have any control over. Where they’ve got the… Prior: That’s right, that’s the dilemma you’re in. Borup: That might be the only way we could pursue then. Nelson: If he doesn’t get ACHD approval of what he needs, then can he meet the parking requirements? Prior: That’s your determination. Borup: Not the way the site’s developed now. Nelson: Then we would have to see it again. De Weerd: So if the motion was conditioned on ACHD’s reconsideration… Borup: We can approve the use can’t we? He’s not going to be able t o use it if he can’t get ACHD’s approval. Nelson: So we are proving basically the use and not the site plan itself. I can do that. Prior: So you are approving the conditional use permit and even though he doesn’t meet the conditions of the conditional use permit is what you are telling me. Nelson: Doesn’t sound good to me. Borup: Which conditions does he not meet? Prior: The parking conditions. So what are we doing here? Borup: At this point, I don’t know if we can determine whether it meets the parking use, because we’re not sure of the use of the building. Prior: Then maybe what you need to do is close the public hearing, table this until he gets a satisfactory response from ACHD and move along, we’ve got a lot of folks here that seem to be looking impatient. Johnson: I have two things, that I—if I could speak one more time, then I would be… MacCoy: Go ahead, (Inaudible). MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 11 Johnson: The building in the back, if nothing more, there are two garages back there that would accommodate two cars, which would bring us to six in this building back here. There are two garages and still workspace that would then comply with—I mean those doors, there presently. The other thing, this could be brought in up to five feet of the building, then we could put in angular parking in the back, which would allow according to measurement and this could be redrawn. The only problem is, these people want to get their into the yellow pages because they close the 1st of October, they’ve ordered merchandise. This driveway could come forward, or this rear parking could even come forward and we could add at least two more parking places there and still with the two in the garage. With six I believe that we qualify for the residential and the downstairs as commercial. Was that my understanding that six? Borup: It would have to be recalculated, that would be something more than five. Somewhere between five and eight. Johnson: There is two here in the garage, there are four here and then with the ADA access which is pending, we would even have two more. There is even parking parallel in front of this during the day, off the alley, without extending past the telephone poles. Borup: Mr. Chairman, is this something that would need to be worked out with staff as far as the parking. MacCoy: I think that’s a good point. I would say so. Prior: Mr. Chairman what you’re looking at is another situation where you are going to have a plan that you don’t know what you’re passing on. I think we’ve been through this, this sounds familiar to me. MacCoy: I don’t want to pass it on till we get something worked out. We are not going to work at the head of the top of the desk right now. Johnson: That is an existing garage, two car garage. Old type. I believe that totaled six. MacCoy: John, we could make it so that we approve the document with the conditions that he meet with the staff and they work out a parking situation that meets the code. Prior: It’s up to you chairman, I just seem to recall that we had this issue come up with Steiner Development and I remember the results of that. MacCoy: (Inaudible) forward until we have the correct item which is correct as far as the law ordinance code goes. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 12 Prior: So you’re going to review it again or are you just going to rely on staff to pass it along, I guess. I just want to remind you about what occurred earlier. Borup: I would like to see it in writing and our next meeting is just a few weeks away. MacCoy: Well that’s the September 8th , which is a week away. Is that right? That’s next Tuesday. Borup: I have enough confidence in staff, I don’t have concerns there. MacCoy: I agree with you on that. It’s up to you as commissioners, how you feel collectively, do you want to table it, do you want to pass it on with staff with the condition that staff do the final piece for us? Borup: There isn’t the only—there is not another public hearing at City Council. They do need to vote on them. (Inaudible) De Weerd: Is next week too soon to address this again? MacCoy: I don’t think so, it’s just a matter of timing to get this material done with the staff. Shari, Bruce is it too close for something like that for next week? We’re in a special condition here right now. Stiles: Commissioners, I think what you are looking at is the applicant loosing another month waiting for Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. I don’t know if there is any way that you could incorporate into the findings that if the accesses are not approved by the Ada County Highway District in the front, that the—if it’s going to be an apartment upstairs they need the two for that, those could be the garage. They would need an additional five and that, even if it involved maybe taking down part of that garage to accommodate the required off street parking spaces, I don’t know if that’s something you are interested in or… MacCoy: Commissioner Borup? Borup: We’ve had findings prepared in advance before. I think we can still have findings prepared and then do that next time or whether we will accept them or amend them. What would need to take place. Prior: Just as an issue, chairman, you’re not going to have findings on these things on September 8th . MacCoy: That’s what I was going to ask you next. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 13 Prior: That’s not going to happen. MacCoy: Not with the present situation we’ve got. Prior: No, you’re not going to get findings, so Shari’s statement that you will loose another month, well that’s not completely accurate. This gentleman could probably resubmit a drawing on September 8th to you folks to look at. You could approve that drawing and you’re going to get the findings at the same time at the October meeting by the new law firm. So, you are not loosing any time whatsoever, all he has to do is make sure that the drawing reflects what you folks require him to do. It’ll move along as if it would move along in the first instance. Then we can move on to the next item on the agenda. MacCoy: You want to just table it then from the standpoint of it being pushed to the September 8th meeting? Prior: Are you asking me? De Weerd: No, he’s not. MacCoy: I’m asking actually my Commissioner Borup down there. Borup: Oh me, yes, I would—whatever would get the—at this point it’s time to move on. MacCoy: I agree. I’m waiting for a direction to go. Borup: Well, if there is no chance of getting any findings by our next meeting, then yes, it’s not going to make any difference in the overall time frame for that so, I would just table that. De Weerd: You would make a motion to continue the public hearing until our September 8th meeting. Borup: I’d second that. De Weerd: That was my motion. Borup: I second that. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Prior: Maybe just a clarification for Mr. Johnson so he knows exactly what he expects you to do for them, or he expects, might be appropriate. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 14 Nelson: I think what we are asking sir, is that if you could give a plan of the alternative of if ACHD doesn’t deal with us, what it’s going to take on that backside. (Inaudible) Johnson: Thank you, I’ll comply with what you’re asking, then I’ll take the rest up with Shari at a later date. ITEM NO. 2: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT FOR PROPOSED FIRST MERIDIAN PLAZA BY WILD SHAMROCK PARTNERSHIP – SOUTH OF GEM AVENUE BETWEEN MERIDIAN ROAD AND E. 1ST : MacCoy: Is the applicant is here for that? Yes sir, come speak to the attorney. BRIAN IVERSON, 1299 NORTH ORCHARD SUITE 301, BOISE, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Iverson: I suppose that most of you are familiar with the development that has taken place on the property, there is Godfathers pizza and Blimpies and the latest one is the Rockets Restaurant and the developer at this time is planning to plat the property and the four parcels and—so in the future he can sell those parcels off if he chooses. We have read the staff comments and have no problems except with two of them on site specific comments, submit a detailed landscaping plan, including size of species, vegetation, details, walkways, for approval part of final plat signature and letter of credit before the improvements, landscaping to be completed prior to obtaining certificates of occupancy. We don’t think this is—and the applicant has written a letter to staff that this item isn’t really applicable to this type of subdivision. This part of the process, the subdivision process. The two buildings that have been constructed down there, that was all handled during the building permit process and I see no reason why that couldn’t continue, that it has to be a condition to plat approval. The other item to take issue with is (Inaudible) is the copy of proposed restrictive covenants item ten. No restrictive covenants or plan for this development. It’s—the intention is not to have an owners association, it’s only a four (Inaudible) plat and any—city ordinances and building codes pretty well take care of any restrictions they require. That’s some of my comments. MacCoy: Okay, commissioners? Borup: I have a couple questions Mr. Chairman. Item three, have you made the corrections on that? Indicating a lateral easement? Iverson: Yes I have. I’ve been trying to submit that, but… MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 15 Borup: Has that corrected copy been turned in to staff? Iverson: Frankly that’s my fault, when we got postponed and then I put it on the back burner and that will be added prior to the final plat. Borup: Could you expand a little bit more on—you said you didn’t think the landscaping plans were applicable. Iverson: Well I can see it and you know, as I say, the two buildings that have been constructed down there, the landscaping plans were required during the building permit process. They had to be submitted and approved. To do it during the platting process, when you don’t really know what is going to be constructed on those particular lots, there is two lots remaining to be developed. After platting, since you already have control down the line when it’s decided what the buildings are, I see no need to really impose that restriction at the plat level. Borup: So you are saying, you would like to do the landscaping as part of the building. Iverson: I could understand maybe in a subdivision of residential or industrial subdivision where you have lots or areas that are common areas… Borup: Would future buildings change any of the setback areas on the road. Any landscaping they should have a long the, in this case, I guess it would be Meridian Road. Iverson: Meridian Road, no again, that’s… Borup: So that area is going to stay the same, either way I assume. Iverson: Yeah, and the zoning (Inaudible). Borup: I think the other question staff had, was that the landscaping be completed prior to occupancy. Of course that would be after the buildings are built. You didn’t have a problem with that part of the… Iverson: The occupancy permits are part of the building. Borup: So your comment was just on the detailed landscaping plan. Iverson: Well the detailed landscaping plan and the letter of credit prior to signature for the final plat. We don’t think any of that should be associated with the final platting process, but it’s covered under the building permit process. Borup: Thank you. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 16 De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I guess the only point that I had was, Commissioner Borup had raised about the location of the amount of lateral easement. That it’s not on the plat that we have and we are looking at the request for preliminary and final plat for this proposal. So, I guess my question is, Mr. Chairman, can we consider this if we don’t have the final plat in front of us? MacCoy: We can consider it, but it’s up to you as commissioners, how do you feel about it? If you want to wait till you see some more material, that’s up to it. Iverson: I’m wondering what your concern is as far as the city. Would it hold up this stage, the public hearing stages? De Weerd: That this was a request and it’s needed on the final plat and our— what we’re looking at is the request for preliminary and final plat approval and we don’t have the final plat if this still needs to be changed. Borup: To expand on that, our directions from the City Council is they want to have everything complete before we pass it on to them. That’s been driven home to us very strongly the last couple of months. So we were making long efforts to comply with that. Iverson: I can tell you that throughout the development (Inaudible) the existing building and (Inaudible) we’ve worked with Nampa/Meridian as you are probably aware that the eight mile lateral is in effect and pipe across the property. There is a license agreement that I’ve been trying to get with the district because frankly there is a little bit of confusion as to—through their paperwork as to how that came about. We’re trying to iron that out. They definitely worked with us to get the lateral pipe and the license agreement allows the parking to be constructed over into the easement as it has been done. They’ve been aware of it through the whole process. I can understand that it is a requirement to be shown on the plat and again, I understand that—I just think that the public hearing process, we can definitely get it on there. I just hate to see it be tabled or anything for that reason. Borup: There is no question on the location of the easement is there? Iverson: No, it’s 45 feet, so it’s canal center line. (Inaudible) Iverson: Mr. Chairman, I don’t know if anyone else has any questions, but I have some for staff. MacCoy: Before you do, we’ve all received the staffs comments and item eight on the first section of the comments on top of page two in review of what MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 17 Commissioner De Weerd brought up to get consideration. You can go ahead and ask the staff. Iverson: I think along with that item six through nine are all plat correction items. Granted, I submitted a letter back to staff responding to their conditions and stating that these items would be corrected. I had waited also to have response back from ACHD and as well as the Ada County surveyors that all changes could be made at the same time and not change on then another and back and forth. It was just a matter of waiting. I thought that having these pointed out, these errors pointed out in (Inaudible) would be corrected as the final plat progressed for (Inaudible). I didn’t really feel that it was, frankly, my feeling was that it wasn’t required at this stage in the process. MacCoy: Well we have the point to review it, we like to make sure that everything is in place and the I’s are dotted before we put it to council, because we know that this is the review board and the council doesn’t do the resorts that we do at this level here. Iverson: I’m a little confused with that. My understanding is the next step is findings of facts, it is not (Inaudible). MacCoy: Commissioner Borup, you were going to ask the staff a question or two. Borup: We want to clarify that for the applicant. Iverson: Is that correct? Borup: Because a plat doesn’t require… (END OF TAPE) Prior: …this plat should’ve been complete with all the corrections that were requested and the final product is submitted to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Planning and Zoning Commission puts their stamp on this thing and it goes onto the City Council for them to do their review and then it goes forward, there are no findings. Basically once again, you could ask the commission to give you till the 8th to get this thing up to what the conditions are stated and get the final product and they would look at it on the 8th and you basically wouldn’t be loosing any time once again. If you think you could do it within that time frame. That might be a request that you may want to consider. Iverson: Sounds logical. I would request that this be, that I would be allowed to submit the final plat for the P & Z Commission on the 8th . MacCoy: Mr. Borup? Did you want to? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 18 Borup: I still have some questions on that. MacCoy: Yes you want to go ahead on that? Borup: Specifically, a couple covenants is that something that is necessary in a commercial development? Has been done in the past? Stiles: It’s required of all plats. Borup: Commercial or residential? Okay, perhaps, I don’t know that you need to have a homeowners association necessary to have a covenant. So that can be done with out that, I believe, am I correct, or am I incorrect? Stiles: I would think they would have something in place to take care of the cross access and cross parking, those kinds of issues and what kind of maintenance they will be required, and the maintenance of their landscaping. Those kinds of issues all need to be address. Borup: Which can be with or without an association but something is going to need to be addressed there. The other question is on the landscaping plans. In requesting detailed landscaping plans, I—we’re talking just around the perimeter of the property, I assume we all realize you can’t have plans if you don’t have a building. In this stage of plat without a building. Stiles: Yes, I have had landscaping plans submitted in the past. The two buildings that are there both underwent through the conditional use permit process. So those detailed plans were included as part of their process before they ever submitted for a building permit application. My main concern is the adequate set back from Meridian Road, that’s been agreed to by the owner and that’s a consistent process that is done at the same time when the curb, gutter and sidewalk, when all of that is completed there, so you don’t—so it has an uniform appearance for people coming down the street. Borup: so you are looking at landscaping detail on Gem and Meridian? Stiles: Yes. Borup: I don’t know that the applicant understood that. So you are not looking for interior landscaping around the building or anything? Stiles: No. Borup: Did that clarify that sir? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 19 Iverson: What I don’t get, it doesn’t—doesn’t the zoning and ordinances dictate that the landscape is set along Meridian and (Inaudible) avenue for that zoning, isn’t there a zoning requirement? Stiles: No, there is a building setback, but the landscape setback is not in the ordinance, that was agreed to when this whole property was proposed to be developed. Iverson: Instead of detailed plans, I could discuss with the developer, if we show as mentioned just the easements for the landscape easements. Borup: You might want to get a little closer to the microphone, I’m not sure if that’s picking up. Iverson: As mentioned in the condition, there is a mention of landscape easements will that pretty well cover everything else? I mean detailed landscape plans and letter of credit if this point again…There is no enforcement under the building permit process for insuring that landscaping is provided. Borup: Are these buildings going to be coming back for conditional use? Stiles: No. Borup: No design review? Stiles: No. Borup: So this is it? Stiles: Yes. Borup: Sir you do know where your access points are going to be? Iverson: One I think… Borup: So then there is no real reason why you couldn’t develop a landscape plan, you know you’ve got your access points already determined and you know what your landscaping setbacks are going to be. So it looks like… (Inaudible) Iverson: I assume under the building permit process that the zoning requirements for not only building setbacks, but for landscaping and… Borup: There is if it’s conditional use or design review, which you are getting away with not having to do that. So at this point, I believe the building MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 20 department is going to review the building and the structural aspects of that. This started with the information he needed. It looks like it complies with items two through ten, on the site specific comments. Prior: Is that a motion? MacCoy: That’s what I’m waiting for here. Borup: Okay, didn’t we start a motion? The motion to continue this public hearing to the September 8th meeting, at which time if we receive… MacCoy: We haven’t heard a second on that though. Prior: He hasn’t finished… MacCoy: I know, but as I say, I haven’t heard a motion yet that… Borup: I’m making one. De Weerd: He’s making it. MacCoy: You’re going to make it right now, okay. Borup: I thought I was, I was half way through it. MacCoy: Oh, sorry. Borup: I move the we continue this public hearing to the September 8th meeting, which time give the applicant an opportunity to provide a revised plat incorporating items 2-10 on the site specific comments. Nelson: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? De Weerd: One comment, that those are needed before the 8th . Borup: Maybe I should have clarified that. How much time does staff need? It should be a little bit easier because they are specific items. Stiles: If we could receive them by the Friday prior in the morning, we should be able to get reviewed, do a quick review and get those into your packets Friday. MacCoy: Then this coming Friday you are talking about. De Weerd: By September 4th . MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 21 Stiles: I guess that would be it. MacCoy: That’s what you are saying. Borup: Okay sir, if that comes in by then, then they can put it on the agenda. If it doesn’t make it, then it will just go on the next meeting. Iverson: I was a little confused about the process… Borup: What we are trying to do is speed it up here for you here. So I guess if it gets in by Friday morning, they can get it on the agenda for September 8th . If it’s after that, then it will be on the next meeting in October. MacCoy: Is there any other discussion? De Weerd: No. MacCoy: Okay, go ahead. Nelson: Is there anyone out there that wants to speak on this? MacCoy: Well we already… Nelson: No. De Weerd: We’re continuing. Nelson: Did you already ask that? MacCoy: No I haven’t, (Inaudible), we got so heavily involved in this. (Inaudible) MacCoy: This is an open public hearing, does anybody hear want to speak either direction on this establishment, or establishments. If not, I want to close public hearing. Borup: No. De Weerd: No, don’t close that. Prior: Entertain a motion Mr. Chairman. De Weerd: The motion is on the floor. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 22 Nelson: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 3: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR PROPOSED WHITESTONE ESTATES NO. 3 SUBDIVISION BY WHITESTONE PARTNERSHIP – WEST OF LINDER AND SOUTH OF FRANKLIN: MacCoy: Requesting that this segment on item #3 be postponed until the September 8th meeting. Okay, can I hear a motion from the commissioner here. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I think you need to open the public hearing. MacCoy: I do need to open it, that’s what I’ll do next, I was still reading at the same time trying to talk. Okay, I’m going to open the public hearing, in fact, I was going to read the whole thing here. A request for preliminary plat for a proposed Whitestone Estates No. 3 Subdivision by Whitestone Partnership west of Linder and south of Franklin. Since the applicant has asked for a stay and moving to a September 8th , and it is a public hearing, is there anyone here that would like to make a statement at this time, before we move on. Seeing none… De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, would like to make a motion to continue the public hearing for the request for preliminary plat for the proposed Whitestone Estates No. 3 Subdivision. Nelson: Second. MacCoy: Any discussion? Prior: Until? De Weerd: Until September 8th , sorry. MacCoy: I thought you had thrown that in there, I’m sorry. Borup: Was that when the applicant requested (Inaudible). MacCoy: Yes, it’s on the letter that we received. Any discussion? All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, on items four and five, I believe they need to be reversed. That five is four and four is five. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 23 MacCoy: You are correct. I don’t know why we continue to have this problem. Alright taking item 5 first before item 4 the way it’s been listed in the agenda, they are both public hearings. ITEM NO. 5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 8 ZERO LOT LINE TOWNHOUSES IN TERRA TOWNHOUSE SUBDIVISION BY JIM HICKS – EAST OF W 7TH AND SOUTH OF IDAHO: MacCoy: Is the applicant here this evening? BOB UNGER, 870 N. LINDER ROAD SUITE B, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Prior: Sir, just to expedite matters, if you would like, you could talk about the conditional use permit and when the time comes up for the preliminary plat, rather than adding any additional information if you would just like to request that it be incorporated into your testimony as part of the preliminary plat. You could do it all under one shot then and we could save a little time if you would like. Unger: That’s fine and I do request that. Prior: You can do it at the time when we open on the preliminary plat. Thank you. Unger: Mr. Chairman, commissioners, I will try to make this short. First of all, we have received approval from Ada County engineer for the name which would be O’Hara Townhouse Subdivision, instead of Terra. This project is an existing, there is two existing four-plexes with car ports and storage sheds. What we’re requesting is to take the four-plexes and subdivide them into zero lot line townhouses. The zoning on the property is currently R-15 and we’re not asking for any change to that. Why the—our client is asking to do this is of course, to be able to see the individual townhouses. We currently have existing services to the site and to the units. One of the conditions of approval will require that we do have individual utilities including sewer and water. That will be accomplished as part of our construction on the area. Land uses in the area are apartments and duplexes and apartments and the zoning in the area is R-15. It’s kind of small, you could see the area over here. Lot number nine is a common lot for the homeowners and it’s for their use and also they would be maintaining it and we have provided covenants for the use and maintenance which was in you’re packets. The areas that we have in gray are sidewalks and the driveway parking areas. The green is all lawn and landscaping. This is all existing. We are also required to provide a per ACHD to provide a cross access agreement and that is being provided for use of the driveway in the parking areas. Since this is an existing facility, there will be no new impact on the surrounding area, streets or services. We feel that since the individual units will be under individual ownership, there probably be less impact on the area, as far as maintenance of MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 24 the units exterior and the landscaping and the general appearance of the units. We have reviewed all the comments from the staff and we have no problem with complying with the comments and conditions that they have offered. We did follow up with a letter discussing the compliance with their conditions of terms and I think we’ve responded to all of their concerns and have met all the requirements. We ask for your recommendation for approval. MacCoy: Commissioners? Borup: Mr. Chairman, the only question I have is, the temporary turn around is not there is it? Unger: The temporary turn around is not constructed, never was constructed. The easement does exist and that’s why we have shown that on the plat. Borup: Yes, I drove by and didn’t see that. Are you aware of anything happening to the property to the west? Unger: I’m not aware of anything going on. Borup: So nothing on continuing the road or anything? Unger: No, we’re not aware of anything. Borup: I don’t think have any other questions, only notes I had were just respond in writing and you’ve done that and that’s the copy we’ve got. That’s all I have Mr. Chairman. MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd? De Weerd: No, I don’t have any. MacCoy: Commissioner Nelson? Nelson: I have no questions. MacCoy: Okay, do you want to sit down and we’ll invite this as open public hearing. Is anyone here that would like to comment on this structure? Pretty quite house tonight. Then I’ll close the public hearing and Commissioners, what is your desire? Nelson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we prepare a Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for this item. MacCoy: Is there a second to that? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 25 Borup: Second. MacCoy: Any discussion? De Weerd: Well, I think I would like to ask staff if they have any comments please. Freckleton: Commissioner De Weerd, members of the commission, I don’t have anything above or beyond on what I had on my written comments. De Weerd: Have those been answered by their response? Freckleton: Yes they have. De Weerd: I have no further. MacCoy: Any other discussion? All in favor then? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 4: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR PROPOSED TERRA TOWNHOUSE SUBDIVISION BY JIM HICKS – EAST OF W. 7TH AND SOUTH OF IDAHO: BOB UNGER, 870 N. LINDER ROAD SUITE B, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Unger: I request that my testimony on item number five be carried over to item number four. De Weerd: I guess I would have one comment for Mr. Unger. In our process, we first order findings on the conditional use permit and we continue the preliminary plat until those findings come back and then we vote on those at the same time. Prior: Or you can table the preliminary plat if you would like. De Weerd: Okay, so I just wanted you to be aware of the process. Unger: I thank you, I have never been before this commission before, this is a new process for me so. (Inaudible) you’ll end up tabling this and then it will come back in the meeting in October, is that correct? MacCoy: Right. De Weerd: Yes. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 26 Unger: With the findings. Prior: Then it will go on to the City Council, is this old town, no this isn’t old town. It will go on to the City Council. MacCoy: I was wondering where you were coming from. Prior: I’m not sure. MacCoy: Okay, we are going to continue the public hearing, what’s the… Prior: What’s your preference, do you want to allow him to submit additional information, or do you want to cut it off now and wait for my findings. What’s your preference? De Weerd: I would move to table. MacCoy: I’m going to close the public hearing officially and commissioner, what’s the direction? De Weerd: Well, I would move that we table the request for preliminary plat for proposed Terra Townhouse Subdivision, now O’Hara to our October meeting. October 14? Stiles: Thirteenth. De Weerd: Thirteenth. Borup: Second. MacCoy: Any discussion? All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ITEM NO. 6: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR GROUP DAYCARE BY TINA CARRICO – 2052 N. LARK PLACE: MacCoy: Is the applicant here? TINA CARRICO, 2052 N. LARK PLACE, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Carrico: I’m not really sure what I’m supposed to do. Prior: Just tell them what you want to do. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 27 Carrico: I’m just here to get the conditional use permit for the daycare that I have proposed here. MacCoy: Do you want to say anything about it, do you want to enlighten us on some policy or direction you want to go? We’ve got your material, it’s been submitted to us, but if you wanted to make any comments on it. Carrico: No, that’s pretty much all it is, it’s just going to be a group daycare in my home. Nelson: Maybe, I’ll just ask a few questions then. I guess, what kind of operating hours we are going to have then, so we can get it in the record what your… Carrico: Seven A.M. to Six P.M. As far as impact by a number of vehicles driving dropping off kids. Of the twelve that I’m permitted, two are mine, three are the neighbors across the street, so there is almost half of the number right there that are already there. The fence is already in place, I have a six foot privacy fence all around, surrounding the back yard. As far as noise from those children, I am probably 400 feet from an elementary school and they’re not going to hear anymore noise from the kid that I have than they hear out of the playground of the school. There is probably 860, I think. MacCoy: That’s a very good point that you make. Carrico: I can hear them from my front yard so. De Weerd: Do you have landscaping in your backyard, or play equipment, or… Carrico: Well, I do have two little tiny trees in the back yard. No I really don’t have landscaping back there, it’s just grass. I’ve got a swing set. A kind of plastic slide thing. I’ve got a bigger one that we just built, one of the ones with the wood thing, it’s like a tower and then the swing set comes off of it. De Weerd: But no swimming pool. You could fit one back there, it’s really big. Carrico: I could, everybody has told me that, I could. De Weerd: Parking, I noticed that you’re in a cul-de-sac and you have a stub street to the side and very low frontage in front of your home. You have five kids that will not have impact by cars. Do you have a place for them to park, pull in? Carrico: I have a two car garage, so it’s got a driveway wide enough for two cars and then it has a gravel spot to the side that is wide enough for a third car and I’ve never had more than—well, the one woman lives across the street and then just the people that I have that are wanting to do our—at on times. I mean, a MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 28 couple of them are friends of mine from PTO and that, and they are going to pick up their kids from school, after school, I’m just going to walk up there with the younger ones, and they’re like, well you could have them and when I pick up so and so after school, and I can just take them from there. So their cars wouldn’t even be coming down the street. I don’t think it would be a problem at all, I’ve talked to all my neighbors right there on that street and they’ve all told me that it’s fine. We get more traffic than that with people who are lost, not knowing where North Lark Avenue and North Lark Place. De Weerd: So your neighbors are in support of this? Carrico: Yes, I talked to everybody on North Lark Place and I talked to the one immediately around the corner there and they all know about it. De Weerd: Are you licensed, or will you be trying to obtain license here? Carrico: I have the little slip that says issue license. But I have to get the fire inspection before I guess they will issue the license. I don’t know how it works, they told me that right now I’m legal as of now, and I have the health and well come out, they did the inspection and he said yes it’s fine and on his form, he checked off issued license, so I’m just assuming it’s in the mail. De Weerd: Great. Thank you. MacCoy: Mr. Borup? Borup: No. MacCoy: Anything else Mr. Nelson. Nelson: I no other questions. MacCoy: You do? Nelson: I have none. MacCoy: Okay, it’s still an open public hearing, does anybody here wish to make a comment? Come forward sir. VERNON BARKLEY, 2081 NE 10TH AVENUE, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Barkley: I’m the neighbor behind Mrs. Carrico. It hasn’t happened this year, but last year and of course we have some turn over, so I don’t know if she was the neighbor that was living there last year, but they planted tomatoes up against the fence. In a couple of occasions when the children were out in the backyard, my MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 29 backyard was peppered with tomatoes and I didn’t go around to say anything and I will wait and see when it first happened. Our home sits about 20-25 feet from the fence and there is no shrub on their side of their fence. I have a little on my side, but I think we have enough children without bringing anymore into our area for the noise. The fact that she has already made the comment to the school is close enough, we get enough noise from there, we also have two daycares on Chateau. Ones on Chateau and ones on the corner of Chateau and Jericho. I’m speaking in opposition of this going in. I think it would be detrimental to my property. I think it would because the property to loose its value to what it would be right now. MacCoy: Would that be involved with the fact that you do or do not have a care center, a child care center close to your place. Is that what you are saying about value? Barkley: I’m in opposition, I wouldn’t want the child care center that close to my property. I think they need child care, they need to get into a commercial area for these type of child care, instead of bringing it into the residential area and you know, contaminating the residents that move that are not expecting this is going to be there, how long are they going to live there, till they die. Then someone comes in and wants to—I don’t mind them bringing their own children in, that’s understandable, but where I take the stand against it is bringing in other children that we don’t need to be brought in. MacCoy: Does anyone else here who wants to comment or statement? Nelson: I have a question for the applicant. MacCoy: Will the applicant come forward please. Nelson: Have you had any indication from the fire department or I guess health and welfare as to how many they expect to be approved? I know— Carrico: Twelve. Nelson: No, we can approve twelve, I’m curious whether your home is configured, if the fire department would go up that high. Carrico: I don’t know, the fire department hasn’t been out. They can’t come out until after this. MacCoy: Were you there a year ago or two years ago? Carrico: Yes, I’ve been there for five years now. MacCoy: I guess the side thing is, are you going to plant tomatoes this year? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 30 Carrico: Did I? MacCoy: Did you, yes? Carrico: No, I didn’t plant anything this year. MacCoy: I just thought I’d clear the air for that one. Is there any other person here that has questions or statements they want to make? If not, I’ll close the public hearing, commissioners? Nelson: Before I make a motion for the benefit of the audience. This is zoned R- 8, I believe that allows up to 24 children daycare, so we are only asking for half of what R-8 allows and it’s the opinion of this commissioner that daycares in the home are a good alternative to the commercial. Not everyone can afford to take their children to commercial. Just for the benefit of them, I make a motion to request Fact and Findings for this item. De Weerd: Second. MacCoy: Any discussion? Borup: One additional comment, without the fire department doing their inspection, we are not sure how many children are going to be approved. It could be way less. Nelson: It could be less. We can only assume twelve. MacCoy: It’s controlled by some other agency other than ours. De Weerd: The fire department has returned a sheet with their comments, so. MacCoy: Any other discussion? De Weerd: I have none. MacCoy: If not, all commissioners in favor? Borup: Did we get a second? MacCoy: All in favor. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 31 ITEM NO. 7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR CONVERSION OF GARAGE TO BEDROOM & BATHROOM BY MEL A. LACY – 1414 N. MERIDIAN ROAD: MacCoy: Is Mr. Lacy here? MEL A. LACY, 1414 N. MERIDIAN ROAD, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Lacy: My request is to convert the garage to small a 14 X 24 detached building to the structure, to a bedroom and a bathroom, because I recently got married and became the Brady Bunch and would like to have another bedroom and because of zealously on my part and ignorance and I didn’t realize this was zoned strictly commercial when I bought this property. So I didn’t realize that I couldn’t do any adding on to the house and I did call the city and they said I couldn’t add on, but I could remodel anything existing, well, on my part, I thought that meant the garage, but it doesn’t. So I got zealous and on the 4th of July and I bought a used pool because it’s above ground, but it has one end, where you can dig down and make it a six foot depth and I had a little hoe rented, I dug in sewer line for this bedroom and bath idea that I came with on that weekend. With intent of getting a permit, didn’t realize I needed to go through conditional use permit. I’ve gone through the memorandum that was sent to me. I can willingly conform with all codes, inspections, whatever is required of me. As far as the concerns from the neighbors as far as the parking. I do have a trailer and a boat, the boat is gone, it’s at storage, and the trailer will be in storage. The reason it’s been around is because I’ve been moving and I’ve been trying to move my future wife at that time in and out, getting stuff shifted around and anticipation of the marriage. The trailer will not be left there, it will be moved. The vehicle situation when it finally, when the dust finally settles. There will be a car for myself, a car for my wife and a car for my daughter. So there should be three vehicles there at that time. Timeframe on that, it kind of goes with money and how you can get things taken care of. As far as the swimming pool, I know there is a concern with my other neighbor, that I built it over her sewer line in my yard. I went and spoke with Gary Smith at the city engineering department and showed him the right-of-way easement that I was mailed and his clarification on that is, she has no right-of-way to her utility in my property and it applies to the property that is due east of her to connect to the sewer line. My understanding after his conversation was, if her sewer line was in my yard, that I could either have her move it, or she would have to buy an easement from me. I was willing to leave that dog lie, but I’m going to push forward and have her move it. That’s where it stands. MacCoy: Any questions for our applicant? Borup: So the sewer line, there is a sewer line in your property that is servicing her at your neighbors house? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 32 Lacy: I’m just going by what she has said. I don’t have any record of it being there, Gary didn’t have any record of it being there, he has records showing the plot planner, showing a utility connection for all four properties along there. As far as I know, from what Mr. Yerrington and Jodi said, they all wide into my property and then went to the sewer, to the main sewer line. A couple years ago, Mr. Yerrington put his own in to the main sewer line. Apparently hers is still on line. Borup: So you understand there is a sewer line there? You say at this point, you are going to require it to be moved? Lacy: Yes sir. Borup: Because why? Just because it’s there? Lacy: I could leave it, as long as the threat that problems arise, I’ve got to pay for any correction. If it causes problems in her home, I don’t feel it’s appropriate on my part. Borup: So you felt you would be liable if there is a problem. Lacy: She felt I would be liable. Borup: You must feel the same. Lacy: I feel that if she is going to take that stand, then she can have her own and then she can be liable for herself, not me. Borup: You say you did not have any questions. I think the staff comments. Lacy: No, I can comply with and conform to everything that is requested, I wouldn’t have a problem with building codes, whatever was required by me. Borup: Okay, that was a question I had, you feel you could comply with. You’re converting a garage to a residence, is that correct? Lacy: Yes, I would like to. Borup: You feel you can’t comply with the building codes as far as the structure itself. Lacy: As long as they let me know what it is. If I can get clarification from what they require, yes. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 33 Borup: I don’t know what you’ve got. My experience on garage’s built in that time period, probably would not comply with just in building codes. Main one probably footing cross step. I don’t know if that’s something you’ve looked into. Do you having footing under there, or is it just a slab? Lacy: No, there is a little footing there. Borup: But probably not down two feet. Lacy: (Inaudible) I didn’t know what, how far they would go on another, on a remodel, I didn’t know, I couldn’t. Borup: I guess that would be up to the building department. I don’t think I’m (Inaudible) at this time. MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd. De Weerd: I guess my only question is on parking, loosing your garage if you have adequate space for your vehicles. Lacy: It’s a long narrow driveway, but yes there would be. Even if I didn’t have it as a bedroom, I wouldn’t use it to park in, I would use it as storage. De Weerd: I have no further questions. Nelson: I have no questions. MacCoy: Okay, is there anyone here that, since this is an open public hearing, yes please step forward. JODI MAHNKEN, 1422 N. MERIDIAN RD, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Mahnken: I’m a neighbor right next door, I had some concerns because as he mentioned, the sewer line is there. It was my understanding after I spoke to an attorney that the sewer line, and I believe you have a copy, I sent you a certified copy, is the City of Meridian easement, it’s a right-of-way easement with the City of Meridian from 1955. I guess I have a problem because he is digging over, I’m supposed to have access to the sewer line, because he’s digging over and into it, I don’t want to be financially responsible for the line because he’s messing with it. If it was just sitting there and it broke, that’s fine. If you start messing with it, why should I have to carry the financial responsibility. His pool is not in compliance, he never got a permit, I did call the city, I did write the city. I also met with the—I don’t remember the superintendent of the sewers down there, I have his letter, but I didn’t bring it tonight. He said he would bring it to the lawyer, and it does seem to be a City of Meridian easement, right-of-way easement. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 34 They would probably write to Mr. Lacy and state that he is responsible for the care and replacement of the line, if he breaks it. I have pictures of, the garage. That’s the only thing, I don’t want to bear the financial responsibility as a single parent with a teaching income to replace the city line that somebody is messing with. This is an old line, can it handle the stress. Mr. Lacy has tendency to do his own work. Will a plumber be involved, will there be an inspection? He used to keep his things in the back, boats, trailers, campers, fine. The pool now blocks the storage area in the back, so there is nothing that can pass the pool. Yes there is a major parking problem. This has sat in front of the house for two weeks during the summer. He moved it, it’s back. He says he’s going to get rid of it, I don’t know. So my concerns are cost and parking. With that sitting there, as a pedestrian walkway, the children going to Meridian Elementary, the high school along Meridian Road. He has young drivers, his son will probably be driving soon. They come out of that parking area and can’t see around that trailer, they can’t see me around the trailer, because I walk very often. So, I hope that these vehicles are moved. Prior: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for clarification. I understand you correctly. It is actually the City of Meridian that actually has this easement. It’s not an easement that you have, is that right? Mahnken: No, I thought it was, but it’s not. It’s the City of Meridian. So, they will have to bear the responsibility of that. MacCoy: Any other questions for that? Okay. Anybody else here that would like to make a statement. Borup: I have a couple questions for staff. One, is a permit needed for an above ground pool. It is? MacCoy: My neighbor had to get one, yeah. Borup: Okay, he’s got it anyway. So then in a residential use, in a commercial zone can not be added on to? This is for my own information (Inaudible). Did I understand what the applicant said. Stiles: They would have grandfather rights to leave it in the same configuration as it is. If they want to remodel, enlarge or expand that non-conforming use, they would have to either rezone or go through the conditional use process. Borup: Okay, so he could add on a bedroom to the house with a conditional use permit. Stiles: Yes. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 35 Borup: Another for Bruce, have you had a change to review this right-of-way easement? Without taking a plat and trying to—I’m not really sure where that easement really is. Freckleton: Commissioner Borup, members of the commission, Gary Smith has had this easement, he’s done some review on it, it was an easement that was granted in 1955 to the City of Meridian. It’s for service lines, not main line. The way it’s worded, it’s very vague, the legal description portion of it, it’s hard to interpret as to exactly the location of those lines. I know that Gary has done research into this and I wasn’t aware that he had made the determination that it wasn’t—that their wasn’t easement here. I would need to talk to him about that. Find out where he’s coming from. Borup: I was looking at these sixteen feet, if it’s a sixteen foot strip and it’s the east part, I’m not sure how it gets on a boundary that’s running east and west. Freckleton: The configuration of north 3rd addition. If I remember right, there is a lot that—these lots have been split off. There is a lot that runs north and south across the back of three or four lots. The main sewer trunk line runs down the middle of the block, then there is a strip of land that runs between the lots. This easement, if I understand was for lines to cross that lot to those three or four individual lots. Borup: So that’s the lots essentially in the middle of the block… (END OF TAPE) Borup: …information we had and how do more research than I probably wanted to. That conclude what you knew, Mr. Freckleton? Freckleton: Yes. The middle paragraph of legal description talks about strips of land eight feet wide extending from the sewer lateral line. That would be, it says from the lateral line—sewer line, westerly to the boundary of the adjoining property. It doesn’t give you a north south dimension as to where along that lateral line those extend from. It just says that there is strips of land eight feet wide, extending 245 feet across that lot, to those three lots. There is a lot that is left to interpretation. Borup: So that’s the sewer line we are talking about, there is no specific location. Freckleton: There is a lot left to interpretation with this legal. Borup: Mr. Chairman, did Mr. Lacy have some clarification on… Lacy: This is the drawing that Gary and I went over. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 36 Prior: Sir, you are going to need to speak into the microphone so we can hear you. Lacy: If you notice on the lots that he’s talking about, there is—I think the one strip was 60 feet wide, 240 feet long, I think. That’s where the main sewer lateral runs. There are four lots that join in on to that. They have, I guess it would be the east end of that property, he drew in there four, eight foot wide parcels. So basically what it gave, what he explained to me is it gave the City of Meridian an easement to connect each four lots to the main sewer lateral through their own lot. It has nothing to do with up in the other 60 X 100 foot original lot. Borup: So at this point, that strip back there was added to the 150 foot lot, is that what you are saying? This plat shows another lot between the sewer line and… Lacy: The way he said the original property owner had five lots there and what he did was gave the City of Meridian an easement to allow that not to be landlocked to the sewer line off that east end of the property, each of those four 60 X 150 foot lots. Borup: Who owns that other 73 feet behind your lot? Lacy: I own that one, I own two pieces there. It was deeded, they actually sold both pieces as mine. Borup: Okay, that’s what I was getting at, I said most of the lots on that street are the same situation. Lacy: Just mine, and then the next three are just 150 X 60 lots. Then that other strip is where the Knotty Pine Motel trailer court sits. So her easement is actually underneath that trailer house, to the east of her. From the way that Gary explained it to me. Borup: But you don’t know. If this is accurate, it’s not over, it’s straight back from these persons property. Lacy: Correct. Borup: This probably needs to be given in to…submitted for. (Inaudible) Nelson: I have one more question for the applicant. Sorry. We’ve danced around so much, then it is still safe to say that your pool may be over her sewer. Does she have a legitimate concern? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 37 Lacy: Maybe, maybe not. What Gary said is look for the vent out of her house and then in the back of my property where the actual 150 foot property line would be from the original parcel in 13 feet, there is a clean out. Line up with that clean out to her vent coming through her roof and he said that’s probably how the line ran. That’s what he’s noticed, and it’s under her tree, it isn’t under my pool. It’s under a tree on her property. Nelson: Thank you. MacCoy: You have something. Mahnken: That wasn’t how it was explained to me, because I know that the sewer line has to come out. Prior: Ma’am, I’m going to have to ask that you speak into the microphone and identify yourself. Mahnken: Well I went down to Meridian Sewer and that wasn’t how it was explained to me. It was explained that it went right over the sewer line, which is—he’s got the pool right over the sewer line, because it goes straight back to the (Inaudible). So that was not how it was explained to me. Nelson: Suffice it to say, it’s ambiguous. MacCoy: Is there any other comments to be made from the people here this evening. Okay, thank you. I’m going to close the public hearing and give it back to the commissioners. De Weerd: Does staff have any comments? MacCoy: Staff, do you have any comments after all this? Stiles: Nothing in addition to our report. MacCoy: What’s you direction. Nelson: I’m thinking. I would be inclined to move this on for Facts and Findings. I’m concerned that there is different information being sent out by the city to maybe two people that maybe effected. That may be because the information is so vague that it’s subject to interpretation. But I don’t know whether that has anything to do with this conditional use, the pole is not really part of this. Does anyone have any comment on that before I make a motion? Borup: Just I agree with that. The only other comment, I’d much rather see the applicant and neighbor try and work things between themselves. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 38 De Weerd: But again, we don’t have, that’s a whole different issue. So, if you would like to make a motion. Nelson: On the motion on the garage itself, I’d like to make a motion… MacCoy: Can you wait a moment here, before we get into this, do you all have the letter written in you packet from Betty Rearington, she asked that we go through this… Prior: Did we close the public hearing chairman? MacCoy: Yes we did. We’re at the discussion point right now. Prior: I know, you’re going to discuss information in addition to what was—after closing the public hearing. MacCoy: This is in the packet. Prior: I understand that, I believe that is part of public record and the public hearing has been closed though. We’re probably going to have to make a motion to reopen the public hearing and allow this letter to be read in it’s entirety before we continue. MacCoy: Is that the way you want to do it? Prior: That’s the way we’re going to have to do it. MacCoy: Okay, I wasn’t aware we had to do it in the past, because we (Inaudible) letters before in the past and we haven’t done this. It’s in the packet and it’s part of the material you would have to take care of. Prior: Not during my tenure. MacCoy: Well no, it hasn’t been. Alright, I’m going to reopen the public hearing, I have a letter here addressed to our City Clerk, Mr. William Berg and it’s from Betty Yerrington, who lives at 1402 Meridian Road, in Meridian. “This letter is in response to the notice of hearing at the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Meridian is holding in the Meridian City Hall on the evening of August 11, 1998 when it will be reviewing and considering the application of Mel A. Lacy for a conditional use permit.” Next paragraph, ”His property 1414 N. Meridian Road, borders the north of my property at 1402 Meridian Road. One of the requests is to take the existing unattached garage with sites on our property line, and remodel it into an apartment with a bathroom for his daughter. He recently purchased the property and appears to be a nice agreeable neighbor with a nice family. Our two driveways are side by side and we have worked out a system to parking on the extreme far side of our driveways to enable us to Jockey second MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 39 and third cars in and out of our single drives. Between us, we have a number of vehicles, some need to be parked on the street, my concern is if this apartment is ever rented or transferred to another owner, it could present a problem. At this time, I can see no way of providing for more cars.” Next paragraph. “I would like to state that therefore asking that this apartment arrangement be non- transferable, I do not want to make enemies of my neighbors, just want to protect my property value. I have told them I will not contest this request to make a bedroom apartment for their daughter, but I am concerned about the future of how it will effect the value of my property. She closes by saying, as I will be out of town for the hearing, it was suggested that I put my concerns in writing. Thank you,” signed Betty Yerrington. Any discussion from the public, since I’ve reopened the public agenda. If not… Borup: Mr. Chairman, just clarification for—Yerrington is on the south side? MacCoy: 1414 and she’s on 1402. Same side of the street. Borup: Okay, that’s all I had on that other than apologize I didn’t have, my notes on this were from her last meeting and I did miss one question that I had for staff. MacCoy: Well we are back to open again, so you might as well ask the staff. Borup: Well, Shari is gone. MacCoy: Oh, great. Borup: I’m not sure if Bruce can answer this aspect, because more of Planning and Zoning, but it is on—by granting this, are we (Inaudible) two separate residences on a single lot? Which I guess what it’s here for is conditional use, but it’s—in my mind, it’s more than adding on a bedroom to an existing house. In the future, property resold, you’ve got two separate individual living quarters. Is there any concern there? I’m sure the city has a lot already, I know that Boise does all over the place. It doesn’t comply with anything current. Those types of things are grandfathered, but here we are creating. We’re creating something that isn’t grandfathered. Did you understand what I was asking? Stiles: The way that our ordinance reads, they would have to transfer the conditional use permit to a new owner, and that would require another public hearing and another conditional use permit application. The commission could put the limitation on it, if they decided it’s part of the conditional use permit, it would be hard to enforce. Borup: Where it’s a member of the family, I don’t have a concern. That’s why I ask if staff has a concern somewhere down the road creating a—well, it’s not really a duplex situation, we are creating two residences on one property. How be it, the one fairly small. It would still be a separate rental unit. So I guess MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 40 that’s. You really didn’t answer if you had a real concern or not, other than if it did come up and they applied for a conditional use, that’s the time to look at it. Stiles: It would be real hard to regulate, because we don’t always get notification that new property ownership. They could sell the property, represent that it’s approved and somebody else move in. Borup: We probably got some neighbors that just might let the city know. De Weerd: Does our city attorney have any comment? Prior: What would you like me to say? De Weerd: Well, in response to Commissioner Borup’s question. Prior: He can build what he wants, if he wants to transfer the conditional use, he’s going to have to go through the process, if I’m not mistaken. If he sells the house under the premise that that thing is transferable to another owner, then the new owner buys the property and finds out that it wasn’t transferable, he’s going to have a cause of action against Lacy for fraud and under the current laws for fraud, he get a dear price he’d pay for that. I’m sure he wouldn’t want to take that type of responsibility in light of the fact that he has just brought a Brady Bunch into his family. Borup: I have no other comment or questions. MacCoy: You have no other? Back to commissioner Nelson that I interrupted, go ahead. Nelson: We need to close the public hearing now. MacCoy: Are you ready for that? Okay. There is no other questions from the audience. Borup: Mr. Yerrington is here, I assume he is just here to listen, I didn’t know if he had anything he wanted to add. Prior: You need to come up, you know that. MacCoy: You of all people. MAX YERRINGTON, 1402 MERIDIAN ROAD, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Borup: I just wanted to know if you had any additional comments, we got that letter from your wife, does that sum up? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 41 Yerrington: Yes, that’s right. I don’t own the property, my wife owns it. De Weerd: Thank you Max for not being too wordy. MacCoy: You’ve got him up here, he’s going to talk to you. Borup: Is there anything else? Yerrington: No. Prior: Have a seat if you would like. MacCoy: I want to close the public hearing for final now. Okay, closed. Commissioner Nelson, back to you again. Nelson: I would like to make a motion that we have facts and findings drawn up for… Prior: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Nelson: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law by our city attorney. De Weerd: That was city attorney. MacCoy: Any discussion among the commissioners that’s credible. Borup: I seconded. MacCoy: Any discussion, all in favor. MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. Borup: If I could digress, it’s not on this case. You guys—on the daycare center, if Tina understood the process and what happens next, I don’t know if that was explained to her (Inaudible). MacCoy: That’s a good point. Borup: Or she could talk to staff, I guess, either way. MacCoy: I would say that might be a better situation, because they are going to be the ones to tell her what to do. Just ask her. Borup: She realizes that there is still the findings to be read and voted on next month. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 42 Prior: Would you like the city attorney to explain that to her. MacCoy: I think that better go to you. Prior: What we are going to do ma’am is next month before the next meeting there will be Findings of Fact prepared and it’s basically a statement with all the legal reasons to approve or disprove the project. They will vote on that and then it will go forward to the City Council for their consideration and then you’re all done. Any questions? Carrico: Do I have to go through the whole name and everything before I can ask the question? Now here is my biggest question on all of it. Prior: Does it have something to do with the application? Carrico: Yes. Prior: No, we can’t talk about that, we’re done. If you have a question procedurally about what happens next, that’s fine, but if you have a question that—a factual question, we’re not going to go there. Carrico: It’s a legality question. Prior: Let me tell you if you can go there, ask it and I’ll tell you if we can answer it. Carrico: I was told by the people that do the health and welfare, where ever I applied for the application and everything, they said I am legal to do this now. While this process is going. Prior: Under Health and Welfare standards they gave you a permit to do this. We— Carrico: My question to them was, can I do this and not get some kind of trouble with the Planning and Zoning thing. They said yeah, that has nothing to do with the application process. Prior: You’re not letting me finish. Health and Welfare gave you the okay to go, we didn’t. Carrico: Okay. Prior: You need both of us. You don’t have us yet, you can’t go. You got it. Carrico: Okay. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 43 Prior: Just straight to you. Carrico: Do you have any idea when this will be. Prior: That’s what I was going to tell you, October 13 we’ll do Findings of Fact, if they approve this thing, it will go before the next City Council meeting for them to con--no, no public hearing. Oh yes, I’m sorry, that’s right, public hearing. I must be—one more public hearing. They will get an opportunity to express some comments and if they approve it, you’re done. You’re looking at another—maybe sometime in early November, realistically. Not real happy about that are you? Carrico: I’m just wanting to be real sure on it, actually. Now, can I do any number of daycare at all up to that point? Because up to six, I don’t have to do anything at all do I? Prior: Actually you need an accessory use permit. You’re in a residential neighborhood, you’re going to need an accessory use permit. Five or fewer. Carrico: Okay. Prior: Is that it? I would rather not get into discussion with this if we can avoid it. It’s getting late. MacCoy: Can we move on then? Okay. ITEM NO. 8: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST TO AMEND CITY ORDINANCE, FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK BY TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK DEVELOPMENT CORP. – S. WEST FIFTH AVENUE, SOUTH OF FRANKLIN AND WEST OF MERIDIAN ROAD: MacCoy: Is the applicant forward? Are you by yourself this evening? Pretty good, you’ve got a public hearing with no one here. MICHAEL J. BALLANTYNE, 2690 N. MILLDEER, MERIDIAN, ID. WAS SWORN IN BY ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. Ballantyne: Okay, lady and gentlemen. My name is Mike Ballantyne and I represent Troutner Business Park Corporation. We have a 40 acre business park, across from Haw products on the south side of Franklin Road. We last year, I believe it was, were approved, went through all approval and entitlement processes for a general commercial and limited office business park. One of those requirements was that we have a conditional use permit on all lots. We— this summer, was it this summer, maybe it was last fall, received a request from staff that conditional use permit be waived for a number of reasons, one was MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 44 because initially, one of the reasons conditional use requirement was placed on the park was because the City Comprehensive Plan requires that all areas identified in the Comprehensive Plan is mixed use when they are annexed and zoned have a conditional use permit placed on them, this property was not in that case. It was actually part of the existing urban designation of the Comprehensive Plan. The second reason was because our covenants which were reviewed and approved by the city were far more restrictive than any city ordinances. The third reason would be the precedence, if you’ve been in our park, you’ve seen the quality, the product that we’re building in the park, the Keller and Olsen Building and the USDA Service Center Building. We’re waiting patiently to submit plans for another building, brick construction, very nice Class A office building. So, Shari I think because of that felt fairly comfortable in the fact that this was initiated by staff. It was actually approved by City Council and then the City Council determined that City Council’s attorney, City Council’s Counsel determined that the City Council could not approve an amendment to the ordinance and change in Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and actually had to come to you, the Planning and Zoning Commission. So based on all those facts, I humbly request that the Planning and Zoning Commission direct the city attorney to draft Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, so that we can amend the ordinance and waive the conditional use requirement on only a portion of the lots, all the lots that are not zoned limited office and do not butt up against the residential areas to the west, that that requirement be waived. I would be glad to answer any questions. MacCoy: One moment, may I ask staff, is there anything else you want to add to that for our benefit? Stiles: No. MacCoy: Alright, up to the commission, what do you want to do? Nelson: I have a question for the City attorney. Since this is the first time I’ve been involved…is that what we have to do next is the Findings of Fact for this amendment. Prior: The memo that I sent forward was in response to a memo from Wayne Crookston. My feelings are, my initial inclination was that it wasn’t necessary to go through all of this stuff. What we’ll do is a very brief finding on this thing and pass it on to the City Council for their look and approval and move this on. I don’t think it has to be anything elaborate or long winded. Which would be a change of pace for me. De Weerd: So we need to? Prior: Have him, make a motion to have the city attorney prepare findings and we’ll go forward. Just make the motion. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 45 Ballantyne: We’re really amending one small portion of the findings which relates to the conditional use requirement. It’s waiving that requirement on a number of lots within the park. MacCoy: Let me ask the council here, since you are departing the area of the question that is present in our mind, can you get the thing done by September 8th meeting? Prior: If Shari wants to get it done, fine. She can slap it on my desk and I’ll be happy to look at it. I don’t think I’ll be able to. MacCoy: Well, what about the replacing attorneys what about… Prior: I can ask them, I’ll talk to them tomorrow. MacCoy: So we could get it done by September 8th ? Prior: Quite possibly. Borup: Mike, is there a time factor here, is this holding up… Ballantyne: It is holding up a building, but we haven’t submitted the building to the city, because the city can’t review plans because of the conditional use requirement. (Inaudible) Borup: Appropriate to do, especially—is this the—I got this a long time ago and I thought it was referring to some different amendments. We never saw the memo. This is back from June. MacCoy: I don’t understand this. Nelson: I remember seeing a memo. Borup: You do? Then I didn’t get it with the other…I still didn’t realize that it was related to the Troutner Park. This should’ve been our agenda in July. MacCoy: Yes, I realize that, I wasn’t going to bring that up. Any questions from the commissioners to Mike here? Borup: No, (Inaudible) MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd? MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 46 De Weerd: No. MacCoy: Commissioner Nelson? Nelson: I have no questions. MacCoy: Okay, this is an open public hearing and, all formalities, is there anybody here who would like to make a comment? Ballantyne: I just might make a comment, normally I don’t get before the commission or the council before 1:30, so I think my opponents are waiting until 1:30 to come. MacCoy: You may be fortunate. Ballantyne: This is wonderful, I can actually go to bed before ten o’clock. MacCoy: You’ve been here for awhile already this evening. Ballantyne: That’s okay. MacCoy: Okay, I’m going to close the public hearing. Borup: Shari had a comment. She was waiving her hand. MacCoy: Were you waiving your hand, or saying you want to go home? Stiles: I just wanted to clarify Commissioner Borup may be thinking of the amendments to the city ordinance that we were talking about, the zoning ordinance. This request is to amend the ordinance that annexed that property and also the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law that were part of that annexation along with the development agreement. Borup: Is that ordinance 793? Nelson: No. Borup: Okay, I’ve got the wrong notes here, because I have got 793. That’s fine, as long as either staff or the attorney knows what specific lots and blocks to mention and everything… MacCoy: …that’s what we’re counting on. Borup: That’s probably what counts. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 47 MacCoy: Anything else? I will close the public hearing and ask the commissioners, what is there desire? Thank you Mike. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we have the city attorney prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for this item and for the properties referred to in their map. Nelson: Second. MacCoy: Any discussion? None. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MacCoy: Is there any other thing you want to tell me? Borup: I have at least one thing before we adjourn. I think all of you now are aware that this is our last day for—he’s smiling—I don’t know if he’s happy. Prior: He is happy. Borup: For our attorney John Prior. I for one am going to miss him. I’ve enjoyed sitting here next to you. He’s made the meetings interesting and… Prior: I’m going to cry. De Weerd: I would like to go on record too. (Inaudible) De Weerd: Well, no one had time, I don’t think we knew. I would like to go on record too Mr. Chairman, as saying that he will be missed. Anyway, at most times. MacCoy: Commissioner Nelson, do you want to add anything else besides your past comment? Prior: Do you feel bad now Mark? Nelson: Not in the least. MacCoy: I agree with Keith, we’ve know John since he came here and we’ve enjoyed working with John and I’m sorry to see him go. I’d like to keep in touch with him, I think we all would. He’s promised to do so, no matter where he goes. So thank you very much for your time John and your concern, your efforts and long hours you put in for us. We appreciate that. Prior: Well, at least I was getting paid for it. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 48 MacCoy: Since you’re the paid one and we are not, we can’t say anything. Okay, I need another motion. (Inaudible) MacCoy: It’s published, I have no more published items. Borup: This is concerning a memo we received in our box (Inaudible). MacCoy: Which memo is that? Borup: On Steiner development? (Inaudible) Berg: I’ll just reinforce what you said Mr. Chairman, this is a special meeting, we notice it to include these items on the agenda. I know that’s an important issue, but to follow proper procedure and not get into conflict with any other attorney, we probably best ought to close the meeting. Borup: I didn’t want to discuss any specifics on the application. Berg: Well, even general discussion wasn’t brought up on this agenda being a special meeting. I’m sorry. Borup: What we would need to do is… Prior: You can’t talk about it. Borup: I have nothing else. I move that we adjourn. Nelson: Second. MacCoy: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:13 P.M. MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 31, 1998 PAGE 49 APPROVED: MALCOLM MACCOY, CHAIRMAN WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK