1999 07-13MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING – JULY 13, 1999
The regular scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission was
called to order at 7:05 p.m. by Malcolm MacCoy.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Malcolm MacCoy, Keith Borup, Thomas Barbeiro,
Tammy De Weerd.
OTHERS PRESENT: Shari Stiles, Bruce Freckleton, Justin Aylsworth, Will Berg,
Angel Sims.
MacCoy: Good evening. Welcome to Meridian’s Planning and Zoning meeting for this
hot night of July 13, 1999. It looks like we’ve got a full agenda. We are going to be
talking about in a few minutes, so get your pencils ready. Just kind of an interesting
piece, our Mayor Corrie leaves tomorrow morning for Washington, D.C. for a couple of
days to plead our case for our City. We are an expanding City and we are trying to get
certain funds now that will help support other things that we are doing in the
infrastructure, so wish him well. On a sad note, Commissioner Byron Smith has
resigned and of course will not be here this evening. I am sorry to see him go. He’s an
architect and he’s been an additive person as far as all technical background, but he
has decided to resign. To identify a couple of items, in fact a number of items now that
have decided take a different twist for us as of the last 24 hours. You got you sheet with
you, so your up to snuff on this thing. Item 15. We have received a letter today for the
Salmon Rapids, and they have asked to be taken off and continued on the August date,
August 10th
. We have another meeting between now and July, this has moved to
August 10th
. I am going to say something about all these in a moment here. Item’s 11
and 12, Items 13 and 14 and Item 16 are all Public Hearing’s and for people that are
here we will have the public hearing. I just to let you know in advance that they will be
continued on all those to the next meeting—or whenever we get them on the schedule
is what it amounts to. Looking at our agenda.
Stiles: Mr. Chairman. Would it be possible for us to relate to the audience the reason
those or the staff is asking those to be continued.
MacCoy: Oh yes. You want to say that, go right ahead.
Stiles: The City is doing some computer modeling on its sewer system to insure that
these developments will even be able to be served and for that reason, we did not go
through a detailed analysis on any of those projects. We do ask that it be continued, if
not to a special meeting, I know we already have plenty of special meetings, but due to
the magnitude of those three projects, it may be wise to have a special meeting. That is
just a suggestion. I just wanted the audience to know it was not the applicant that was
trying to get you here and disappoint you by not showing up with the presentation, but
because of the fact that we wanted to make sure that the City is going to be able to
serve those with sewer and in those drainage areas, that’s why we asked for those to
be continued. The Assistant City Engineer was in the process of doing computer
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 2
modeling on those areas and had a catastrophic failure of his hard drive, so we would
like—I know you all showed up to testify tonight, but would ask that you come to the
next meeting that they schedule for those hearings.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman.
MacCoy: First, thank you Shari. Hold it one moment. Yes, you’ve got a question?
De Weerd: Shari, does that mean that the developer’s won’t be here to even introduce
their projects?
Stiles: There may be the applicant of one project that’s here that I know of, but none of
them are prepared to make a presentation tonight.
MacCoy: We just got the information ourselves. These things happen.
De Weerd: But because these are Public Hearings we would still take comments.
Stiles: Yes. Anybody that is here to testify you can open the public hearing, hear what
ever they have to say, but they won’t have the advantage of actually seeing a
presentation by the applicant. The applicant is at a little disadvantage too because he’s
not here to defend himself.
De Weerd: And we would continue that to a date specific. Would that be the August
10th
date?
Stiles: If that’s what you’d like. There are 10 public hearings scheduled for August 10th
.
With an additional 5, there would be 15 public hearing on August 10th
.
De Weerd: It would be too early to put that on our August 29th
meeting, I mean our July
29th
meeting.
Stiles: No. There is not enough time to notice it. That’s only 16 days.
De Weerd: So our choices are August 10th
or August 25th
.
Stiles: Or to set another one.
MacCoy: We may have a special meeting though for this because we are loaded all
ready.
De Weerd: Another meeting!
MacCoy: The point I want to make though, this is a public hearing and if you are here to
speak, this stuff all goes on tape, so your remarks would be recorded and added to that
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 3
Item. It is up to you if you want to wait till the next one comes up or if you want to speak
this evening. We are going to address that each one we go through here.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman: I just wanted to get back to your earlier comment on Salmon
Rapids Sub 5. The applicant did submit a letter to request that it be tabled, I believe
until the next meeting. However, I guess I got to kind of question the purpose of doing
that. It’s determined that his project, this portion of that project, will not serve into the
Nine Mile Trunkline. It won’t happen until the Ten Mile Trunkline is extended through
from Meridian Greens, so this project does not have sewer service.
MacCoy: Okay. Are you going to address that directly to them and the August 10th
date
is not a good date in other words.
Freckleton: What I just said has been discussed with them and that is detailed in
Gary’s memo that you have in your packets.
MacCoy: Okay. I’ve got this letter from them which is—so August 10th
is a
questionable date. Moving on to the next part of our meeting, Item A, Minutes of
previous on June 8,
1999. Commissioner’s any corrections or additions to this?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move we accept the minutes of the June 8 and June 17
meetings as presented.
MacCoy: Oh, your going to do both of them, A and B. Is that what your doing?
De Weerd: Why not?
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: I just asked for June 8th
. We need to do that one. That’s what I heard was no
comment.
De Weerd: I had no comment on either of them.
MacCoy: Keith?
Borup: Same.
MacCoy: All right, make the motion for both of them then.
De Weerd: I just did and you got a second from Commissioner Borup.
MacCoy: All in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 4
MacCoy: Moving right on. Item C is the Ada County Development Service and we
have 5 items under that which are in your packets. What is your desire? Do you want
to take them one by one or do you want to break out something here.
De Weerd: Does staff have any comments on any of those? Any comments or
concerns.
Stiles: I guess we have comments on those but we would like to reserve the comments
on, limited comments on 2, 4 and 5 until the end of the meeting, if we could.
MacCoy: To the end of the evening? Is that what you said?
Stiles: Yes. I would like that.
MacCoy: You want to postpone this whole Item C until the end of the evening then?
Stiles: We could do that. I don’t think there is anyone is here to testify or has any
interest in any of those, so if we could do that that would be great.
MacCoy: All right. We will just move that to the end of the –
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. I move that we remove 2,4 and 5 and add it to the end of
our agenda.
MacCoy: Well she just said she was willing to move all of Item C. What is true is that
they are probably not here and this is an Ada Co. thing.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I withdraw that and suggest that we remove Consent Agenda
C and move that to the end of our regular agenda and add it as number 18.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor of that?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MacCoy: Thank you. Moving on to Item 1.
ITEM NUMBER 1: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST
FOR ACCESSORY USE PERMIT FOR A FAMILY DAYCARE OF FIVE OR FEWER
CHILDREN BY LETICIA D. VANCE
MacCoy: Commissioner’s what do you say to that.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 5
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move the Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and
approves these Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: We have to do a roll call. Commissioner Borup.
Borup: Aye.
MacCoy: Commission Smith is not here. Absent. Commissioner De Weerd.
De Weerd: Aye.
MacCoy: Commissioner Barbeiro.
Barbeiro: Aye.
MacCoy: The decision.
Borup: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
determines that on review of the applicable standards and guidelines as set forth in
Section 11-2-410D of the zoning and development ordinance for the City of Meridian,
establish record and applicable law, that the applicant met the requisite accessory use
standards. Given the foregoing, the subject application for family daycare home
accessory use is set forth. Hearing should be granted and the use allowed subject to
the conditions imposed herein. Accessory use shall be subject by review by the City of
Meridian upon notice to the applicant.
De Weerd: I second that.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: Let me get my paperwork done here. We can go into Item 2.
ITEM 2. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR REZONE OF 7.265
ACRES FOR CREEKSIDE ARBOUR PHASE ii (FROM R-8 TO R-15) BY WILLIAM &
LUCILE LEAVELL—END OF 5TH NORTH OF CREEKSIDE ARBOUR PHASE I &
SOUTH OF FAIRVIEW.
MacCoy: At this point this is a continued public hearing. It’s all ready open. Staff you
have anything you want to add at this moment?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 6
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Bruce was just handed a new site plan as well
as Ada County Highway District’s final report which was apparently dated today. It
looks like they have made some of the changes requested. We do still have to make
detailed comments based on this revised site plan and would ask that it be continued. I
don’t know if anybody else is here to testify for or against.
MacCoy: We will find out in a moment here. Is that all you’ve got at this moment?
Does the applicant want to make a comment at this time?
Shoemaker: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission my name is Fred Shoemaker,
815 W. Washington and I did testify and am the attorney that represented the Leavell’s
at the May 11th
hearing when we were last before you and also not incidentally
represented them in 1992 when they got the first part rezoned. It is true what Shari
Stiles just indicated and as you may recall from the May 11th
meeting that that was
postponed 2 months ago. Really, we kind of gave our presentation then, despite not
having staff remarks or comments because you all wanted to await the highway districts
comments. We did get those comments at their new meeting Wednesday and they
were favorable. I just got the written staff report faxed to me this afternoon (inaudible).
Of course, like every applicant, this is the second phase of a two phase project. We’d
desperately would like to move ahead and want to accommodate staff and Miss Stiles
reasonable needs to provide meaningful input, but really this project has not changed
for the last 3 months. The only set aside or the only issue really has been whether the
east/west street, Badley Street is going to be public or private and that issue was
resolved if you will in the applicants favor last week by the Ada County Highway District.
With all due respect to staff, they have been on notice and required, I think, to provide
you with written comments for at least 3 months. We’d like to move ahead that we now
finally gotten the highway district’s favorable comments that we thought was our due,
and we’d be grateful to hear or receive comments from (inaudible).
MacCoy: Okay, any questions from the Commissioners?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Shoemaker, I believe we were not only waiting for the
ACHD appeal, but we were also awaiting information on the irrigation district and their
easement requirements. Have you gotten comment back from them?
Shoemaker: We do have information on the easement and I am here tonight with the
project architect who is Larry Knopp and if you will Commissioner, he will handle that
piece of it. You are correct. That was one of the issues that was pending and we have
all the information now 2 months later that we are ever going to have from the irrigation
district so I think we will be able to satisfy you on that issue.
De Weerd: Okay and the street you were talking about was that Badley. That’s all I
have.
MacCoy: You said that was in your favor. Was that private or public then.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 7
Shoemaker: Private. And again, I think I can abbreviate my remarks having once
testified before you on May 11th
. I am just trying to address the issue of whether or not
you wanted to hear us tonight or if we were going to get yet another continuance.
MacCoy: Okay, we’ll find out. You want your architect to speak next?
Shoemaker: Well, if I could I think at your pleasure he could speak to the issue of the
irrigation district, but I think I can speak to what, at least I think with staff’s concerns, I
don’t want to speak for the commission but I know the heart of the issue was what kind
of traffic you were going to allow through the project and if I could---
De Weerd: Sir, would you like to use this microphone right here? We need you on
tape. You can take it out of the stand if you like.
Shoemaker: I have before me two exhibits and one is the most recent site plan for the
current project drawn by Mr. Knopp. This is a continuation, if you will, the second phase
of a 2 phase project that was started in 1992. North is at the top. I put both of these
maps up. I am sure you can’t read the date from here, but the date on this drawing is
1992. It had a different name at the time but it is still the same project which I think you
can see from comparing these two drawings. Again, Phase I this is now in. Phase, it is
actually at the time in 92 it was called Phase’s 2 and 3. It’s now going to be built out in
just the second half, so the dividing line, approximately here. Your looking in detail just
at phase 2 on this drawing, if you can see it behind the viewfinder there, and phase 1 is
down below. I think that, I don’t want to give you too much history, but I thin it is
important for you to understand what we are asking for here today is the approval of 64
units the second phase of a 108 unit project . You approved, the City approved 44
units both the rezone for the south half for the first half in 1992 and you did so, I think
this is important I believe for the City’s consideration as it was for the highway district’s.
This commission, I don’t know if there were any Commissioner’s today on the
commission back in 92. I noticed just this afternoon that Grant Kingsford was the
Mayor. We had a different staff person. Wayne Crookston was the City Attorney and
the Leavell’s and I negotiated on their behalf , a development agreement. The
development agreements, of course are real common today, but in 1992 they were very
unusual animals and I think this was just the first or the second development agreement
that the City of Meridian had ever prepared. I remember Wayne and I borrowed some
(inaudible) development agreement from the City of Boise. To make a long story short,
and this is a recorded document that the City required the Leavell’s to sign. They only
had enough money to build out the first half, the first 44 units of this relatively high end
project, so the City wanted to make sure that when they did, if they did develop the
second phase, what we are not looking at, that they did it with the same quality of
improvements and the same integrity of design. The same system of not incidentally
private streets, which was planned from day one and I think that is why the drawing to
my left over there is important to you. It shows the private street system, it also shows
Badley Avenue extended and it is public to here. Just the left border and stops. I don’t
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 8
know if you can see, there is 7 parking spaces here and then 11 proposed parking
spaces to the north of Badley. All of those of course, would have been lost or would still
be lost if we turned Badley into a public street. Changed it from public to private as it
was always planned. Now, it isn’t any argument really that there is some lock jaw legal
contract. I don’t want to sound too much like a lawyer here, from what happened in
1992, but certainly the understanding was and the obligation certainly on the Leavell’s
was that if they build out phase 1, which has, if you see over in the upper left hand
corner of phase 1 a laundry facility right here. That was the common area if you will to
build at that time and if you read the development agreement. I’ve got additional copies
of it. They were also obligated with phase 2 to put in a clubhouse and either a tennis
court or a swimming pool. Okay, we are doing that and you can tell from either on of
those plans, both back in 92 and probably the best display is the one that Mr. Knopp
did on the right hand side. It depicts, illustrates both the swimming pool and a
clubhouse for this relatively high end apartment complex—the second phase of this
apartment complex. Now, I think what persuaded the highway district commissioners
last week, and what I hope will also persuade you and hope you will follow their advice,
is that –I want to put one more drawing up if I may. I know what may have motivated
highway district’s staff’s comments and their position initially was again if you will, as is
you staff. I think it is reasonable and appropriate in most circumstances to compel a
developer’s (inaudible) to put in public streets. It’s just part of the standard operating
procedure when you come forth with the plat. There are for every rule, exceptions to
the rule and I think this is one here and let me tell you why I think the highway district
commissioners went with us dispute their policy of integrating or requiring public streets
in any kind of a development as I understand, is yours generally speaking. Again, we
need to go back to 1992 when we had this project approved and then sometime later,
about 2 years ago, this subdivision just to the east, it’s been called a couple things. We
know it as Elvira’s Subdivision. It’s a 44 lot subdivision, when in, want to make a long
story short, there was a problem with notice. The Leavell’s nor I were before you 2
years ago, so we did not have an opportunity to object to this subdivision. What
happened was they stubbed in a street for Badley Avenue that would have bisected this
project. We testified last October 22 and said, gee please don’t stub in that street. We
don’t want that public street to go through. We’ve always had private streets, that was
part of the implied covenant if you will back in 92. More importantly, it will really cause a
lot of danger and traffic concerns to pedestrians who we have designed this project to
move freely back and forth between the clubhouse and the laundry facility. We don’t
want a lot of traffic going back and forth. Lastly, and I think most importantly
connectivity and developing a grid system and alternative ways to move traffic around,
especially east west. I know the City of Meridian has had a problem in this neck of the
woods generally in regard to free traffic flow. If you look at –do a cost benefit analysis—
the people that are going to benefit by running Badley Avenue from east to west,
bisecting this apartment complex, a really only a dozen or maybe 14 at the most, and I
am talking about these tear of lots in about the north (inaudible) of Elvira’s Subdivision,
because everybody else from about here on down, is going to empty out through the
other alternative methods of accessing Elvira’s Subdivision. That is through
Washington, which goes through to Second and (inaudible) street and across a private
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 9
lane that the developer of Elvira’s Subdivision was required to put in. It’s called Kathy
Lane, which empties into East State Street, which goes all the way to Meridian and
First. So there are, I think the highway district commissioner’s were convinced there
were plenty other alternative ways for these dozen or maybe 14 single family
residences to get out. If you punch Badley through this project destroying the original
design plan the implied promise in creating a traffic hazard by mixing pedestrians and
vehicles, you aren’t serving a grid system anyway because as you can see, Badley
stops right here. There is no connectivity between this subdivision and Elvira, so we
are not talking about gridding traffic on a east west direction anyway. What we are
doing is talking about providing certainly a more convenient way of these dozen or so
homes getting out if they want to try to get to Fairview or head west. Weight that
against the implied promise that (inaudible) to the Leavell’s when you all approved their
project in 1992 and the disruption of the piece and harmony that the residents of both
phases of this apartment complex deserve. For that reason the highway district
commission agreed to go with and I did bring additional copies of ---I think I might have
given up my yellow copy, but you can see on page 3 of the staff report as paragraph E,
the highway district commission notes that the July 7th
meeting the commissioner’s
granted the applicants request not to extend Badley from it’s current (inaudible) to the
west property line and require the applicant to provide a pedestrian pathway which the
Leavell’s are more than happy to do and we are talking about in this vicinity right here.
Extending a pedestrian pathway from Badley from the east side of the subdivision to
provide pedestrian connection. We made a little bit of joke about it. We are not trying
to exclude the public. We are not trying to keep neighborhood kids out of the swimming
pool. We are not trying to isolate this community. We are trying to provide some trying
to avoid the integration of pedestrian within this project and vehicular traffic because we
just don’t think it’s necessary.
De Weerd: Excuse Mr. Shoemaker. Did I understand that Shari is saying there are
changes on the plat that we have? Did they make changes to it? Okay, well if there is
changes made and we have not seen that plat, I don’t feel that we can make a decision
on this today.
Shoemaker: Mr. Knopp, if I could inquire, I don’t know if you did make the changes.
What we are telling you is that the highway district just told us last July 7th
, last week,
that they wanted a pedestrian path connection. We said we’d agree to that.
De Weerd: Okay well, that’s the only change that you have is the pedestrian path.
Does that move any of the buildings or—I guess my point is, if there is changes to the
plat and we have not seen those changes and we haven’t gotten staff comments, I don’t
feel comfortable, personally feel comfortable considering this with changes we have not
seen and therefore have not had a chance to consider and our professionals have not
given us comments based on those changes as well as the project as a whole. I guess
that’s just where I am coming from. I understand your frustrations but I feel without that
I personally can’t make a sound decision. That’s my comment.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 10
Barbeiro: It might be in the best interest to have Mr. Knopp come up and explain if
there has been any changes and to describe the changes for us so that we could then
make a better decision as to whether or not this would be appropriate.
De Weerd: We still won’t have staff comments.
Shoemaker: Maybe that would be best to turn this over for some technical questions,
Mr. Chairman, if that would be acceptable to the chair.
Knopp: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. My name is Larry Knopp, 355 S.
3rd
Street in Boise. What I did is I had talked to Mr. Anderson as I previously testified in
our other meeting about our easement on Five Mile drain. As Mr. Anderson had
indicated to me at that point, and again last week when I called him, that there is 100
foot easement through their Five Mile drain. 50 feet on each side of the drain itself. All
Mr. Anderson indicated to me was that we needed to make sure that they could service
that drain from our side of the property. So I moved 3 buildings a little bit in to make
sure that you as the Commission and members of Planning and Zoning could see if we
could make that change and give them adequate easement and adequate access to
maintain the drain. This building, the three buildings here I pulled in from the ditch a
little bit to make sure that I had 20 feet of access level access around all of the buildings
around Five Mile drain, so that ACHD wanted to see a bike path, so I added a bike path
from where they terminated the street over on Elvira through here to access the project
and I added fencing along the project that you requested last hearing. The neighbor,
the property owner over here wanted to see. I added that fencing. Otherwise, that
project is the same. Haven’t moved, haven’t changed—I did delete a daisy dumpster
trash enclosure over here to that this neighbor objected to, so I deleted that. That is the
only change on the project.
MacCoy: Any other comments?
De Weerd: Just by moving those buildings, how did that effect the set backs and any
other buffering your required.
Knopp: It didn’t change it any. I moved this building in a little bit. I had the room in
here to do it. I moved this in and pulled this street in and down, so we don’t have quite
as much as landscaping and open area between the buildings and the road, but
otherwise that’s all there is. All the driveways are 25 feet. All the parking meets
Meridian standards.
MacCoy: Any other questions Commissioners? Anything else you want to add?
Knopp: No, I don’t believe so. We tried to add the areas of concern that were
addressed at the meeting previously. I don’t, you know the project hasn’t changed any.
The concern, I think, mainly was just whether it was a public street or a private street.
(inaudible) we didn’t go through we didn’t lose the 2 or 3 buildings on south side of the
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 11
project and the only thing that Ada County beside the pedestrian walk, the only thing
that Ada County Highway District wanted. We have to work with them and provide a
public street for 300 to 400 feet—some where down in here, so that they can access or
have (inaudible) on Fairview for this parcel and this parcel. And what ACHD wanted
was to make sure that this public street went down far enough that it could access this
parcel if it was not under the same ownership (Inaudible). We have agreed to that. We
just have to work it out with ACHD to what extent that has to go. 300 feet 400. ACHD
left a little open on their end. Come in and work with them, just as long as they’ve got
the access and as long as the people to the west, property owners to the west are in
favor of it.
MacCoy: Okay. Thank you very much. Since this is an open public hearing still, is
there any one here who would like to make a comment in favor of this project?
Bremmer: My name is Robert Bremmer, 1307 E. 6th
Street. I am a resident of this first
phase and we live on south post part of it. As they develop, we are in favor of that, but
we are in agreement with the owners. We don’t want to see the Badley Street become
public all the way through because I have small children and they’ll be walking across
the development. We like the way the development is set up now. It is very traffic
friendly to our children the way they have developed it. There is no heavy traffic going
through. We think this would be opposed what’s already been set up to have that street
go through. Besides the streets they already pointed out on the maps, the other
subdivision also exits on to Carlton, which is just a block or two off of where Badley is.
There is really no reason for that and we’d like to see the project go ahead cause it
makes it a little nicer for us to have the clubhouse and the other things that we are
probably already paying for that we don’t have access to now. That is all our comment.
MacCoy: Any questions for him. Thank you very much. Anyone else like to comment
in favor of this project. Seeing none, is there anybody here that would like to speak on
the negative side. Okay, seeing none let me go back to our staff. Shari, earlier you
made a comment about the fact that you’d like to see this continued because we had
some material still not received here at the City. Would you like to elaborate that?
Stiles: I guess just from what I said at the beginning. We were handed this new site
plan and a report from Ada County Highway District at 7:20 tonight. It is very difficult for
us to respond or be able to read the report and give any valuable input. Badley Street
issue is really only one of many major issues on the project. As they stated Ada County
Highway District has requested a public street from 300 to 400 feet south of Fairview
Avenue. They show that, I mean they don’t show it. They don’t show a public street.
They show 30 foot section with a sidewalk on one side and the majority of that, except
for a very small portion, that is entirely Five Mile right of way, Five Mile drain right of
way. It is designated as a pathway in our Comprehensive Plan. Show no plans for how
that might be accomplished. This plan certainly does not reflect what Ada County
Highway District’s letter was or what their agreement was. When I went to a lengthy
meeting at Ada County Highway District last week, I believe it was. Another issue, I
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 12
guess if we want to get into some issues, they are showing the existing billboard that
exists on Fairview their sign to remain for the apartment complex. I hardly think that is
appropriate for an upper scale development for their main access off of Fairview. We
have seen no details of any signage of any kind. I encourage you to go out there and
take a look at it. I don’t know if it’s the poll that they are planning to use or—without
having any details we don’t know. According to this plan, buildings are still shown within
the right of way of Five Mile Creek, which is a Bureau of Reclamation facility.
Regardless of what Mr. Anderson at Nampa Meridian Irrigation Distract may have to
say about it, their lengthy approvals and license agreements required to encroach those
facilities. We do still have the issue of Badley. I would like to inform the Commission
that City still can require an extension of that. It is a public street stub to it. I don’t think
the Ada County Highway District Commissioner’s were split. Mr. Bivens and I believe it
was P.V. Deare I think is one that voted for it. Susan Eastlake voted against it. I still—
it’s not minor issues we have to deal with here and I don’t want to glance at something
that I got 25 minutes ago and say, yeah let’s send it on.
MacCoy. Thank you Shari. That’s very well said. All right since we’ve had both sides
speak here, the applicant do you have anything else you want to add before we go on.
Knopp: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, I called the Bureau of Reclamation
on Five Mile drain because of the City’s letter, dated 12 April stating that John Caywood
at the Bureau of Reclamation. It was their easement. I called him last week and talked
to him. He said they had no control over this. This is not their jurisdiction. They don’t
want to get involved in it. Go back to Nampa Meridian, so that’s what I did. So—I can
get a follow up letter on that from Mr. Caywood. That’s not a problem. The easement
again, once again on the public street and the flag coming in, Mr. Anderson has told me
over and over again, as long as they have access to it, whether it’s a public street, a
private street, an open area to service Five Mile drain—not a problem with him. Would
be more than happy to work with this. They worked with Elvira Subdivision. They are
within the setback. Their fence—they have a 20 foot area between their fence and the
drop off on Five Mile drain. John Anderson work with them on that, so there shouldn’t
be a problem there. The sign as we had indicated in the meeting before out on the
street, all the Leavell’s want to do is maintain the base and have a new sign designed of
which will, I imagine will come back in front of either the Commission or who ever might
handle the signs. All they want to do is just use the base of the sign. The sign for a
cost savings to them, they don’t want to keep the original sign. I am not sure what big
hurdles we’ve got here. We’ve tried to answer. We’d be more than happy to work with
Shari. I know that she’s got this, but this is not revised. The plan is not changed. I
called her office yesterday and today to try to get staff comments. She indicated to me
today that she didn’t receive a revised site plan so she made no comments. There was
nothing to change. The big issue was Badley Street, public streets, their not public.
ACHD does not want public. They want access off of Fairview for the property to the
west, if it develops. We can’t give them all of that right of way. It is going to have to
come jointly from the property to the west also. We can give them all that we’ve got on
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 13
the flag, plus the ACHD wants us to improve the street 12 feet off the centerline. We
don’t have to improve all of it to the west.
MacCoy: Was that explained to her when you called her?
Knopp: Well she just indicated that she had not received a revised set of plans. She
was at the meeting—the appeals meeting with ACHD. She saw the site plan that was
the same. We went through the appeal process on it. I don’t think that she’s been blind
sighted on this, I just think that maybe she thought we were going to submit something
else and we are just submitting the plan that we’d always planned to submit.
MacCoy: All right. Up to you Commissioner’s. What’s your viewpoint. We can
continue the public hearing or you can close it or what do you want to do.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. I guess since I’ve been on this Commission we’ve never
voted on anything without staff comments and I don’t feel comfortable doing that again.
I do understand the frustration from the applicant. I would ask that we perhaps have an
idea of signage at the next meeting. That we have a letter from the Nampa Irrigation
District stating the agreement that was spoke to and perhaps a plan on the public
roadway and the circumstances the applicant faces as far as meeting the public road
way requirements that ACHD has put on them. Those would be the only additional
things I could offer without knowing what the staff comments would be .
MacCoy: You make a very good statement. Thank you. Commissioner Borup?
Borup: Yeah I go along with that. I agree with what Commissioner De Weerd had to
say.
MacCoy: Tom?
Barbeiro: My only comment would be that with the movement of the buildings if the
Meridian Fire Department could review this also and get the comments from them.
MacCoy: So, what’s your desire as a Commission?
De Weerd: So, Shari that would mean that if this revised plan if it can be submitted to
the Fire Department for any additional comment or concern. Is that a possibility.
Stiles: If the plan is going to be revised we would like an adequate number to be
presented so that you all may have one and that the file has one and what ever it is that
they are proposing, is what your looking at when you have a meeting.
De Weerd: How many are needed Shari?
Stiles: Angel?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 14
Sims: Nine.
De Weerd: Nine, okay thank you. Mr. Chairman I would move that we continue this
public hearing till August 10th
and hopefully we have comments
END OF SIDE ONE
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MacCoy: Ayes have it, Thank you very much. Well done.
ITEM 3. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT 16 FOUR- PLEXES WITH POOL AND CLUBHOUSE FOR
USE BY PHASE I & II (PROPOSED CREEKSIDE ARBOUR PHASE II) BY WILLIAM
& LUCILE LEAVELL-END OF 5TH NORTH OF CREEKSIDE –ARBOUR PHASE I &
SOUTH OF FAIRVIEW:
MacCoy: Since we have just continued the public hearing for 2 and since 3 is
connected, what’s the Commissioner’s viewpoint.
Barbeiro: Mr. Chairman I move that we continue Item 3 for our August 10th
meeting.
De Weerd: I second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
ITEM 4. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A MULTI-FAMILY 96 UNIT APARTMENT BUILDING FOR PROPOSED
COBBLESTONE VILLAGE BY IONIC ENTERPRISES, INC.—SOUTHWEST CORNER
OF LOCUST GROVE & FRANKLIN:
MacCoy: As I reported earlier, we had a letter which requested this be moved to
August 10th
, it says it is a continued public hearing, is anyone here wanting to make a
comment about this now. If not we will move on. It is going to be on our August 10th
agenda. Seeing none, Commissioner’s.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we continue the request for condition use permit
for Cobblestone Village to August 10—to what—August 25th
.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 15
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner’s. I am just reminding you that this is now 18
public hearings on August 10th
.
MacCoy: Congratulations. We’ll be here till 2 in the morning.
De Weerd: Well then may I change the date to August –now did I understand that we
have a special meeting on August 25th
. Okay.
MacCoy: Shari a letter I received said August 10th
. I though that was their agreement
between you and the applicant.
De Weerd: It’s probably just a mix of official meeting. I would move that if August 25th
is okay with the other Commissioner’s, I would move that we continue this until August
25th
.
MacCoy: 25th
is that what you said. Shari?
Stiles: That’s fine. I think we only have 8 or 9 on that day.
MacCoy: Okay we will make it August 25. Is that okay by the Commissioner’s now? If
not, you better speak up now.
De Weerd: I made the motion.
Borup: Do we have a time on that meeting?
MacCoy: What do you mean a time?
Borup: Some of the special meetings have been earlier.
Stiles: We wanted to surprise you Keith! 6 o’clock, if you can make it.
MacCoy: Is that true?
Stiles: I believe it is scheduled. Double check with the Clerk’s Office, but I believe it is
6 o’clock. We could still change it.
De Weerd: My motion still needs—
MacCoy: All In favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 16
ITEM 5. REQUEST FOR PARTIAL EASEMENT VACATION IN ENGLEWOOD
CREEK NO. 2 SUBDIVISION BY BRIAN LEE CONSTRUCTION – LOT 17, BLOCK 6.
MacCoy: Staff do you have any comment on this to us right here. Item 5.
Freckleton: Chairman McCoy, members of the Commission. This is a formality that we
are going through on this one. A little history. There was a home that was build over a
sewer main built on the easement and the sewer main had to be relocated around the
house and the easement therefore has to be vacated in order for this home to remain.
We have gone through rededication of easement all ready, but according to Idaho Code
we have to go through this process for a Vacation for a portion of the easement.
MacCoy: So this is a formality your telling me here.
Freckleton: Correct. My department has approved and reviewed the legal descriptions
for the easement.
MacCoy: All they need from us is a vote.
Freckleton: We just need your recommendations.
MacCoy: Okay Commissioner’s.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move we recommend a partial easement vacation Englewood
Creek Lot 17 Block 6.
Barbeiro: Second the motion.
MacCoy: All in Favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
ITEM 6. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF
APPROXIMATELY 3.77 ACRES (FOR CG ZONING) OF LAND FOR PROPOSED
EAGLE ROAD PROFESSIONAL CENTER BY FERMOR, LLC-NORTH OF I-84 &
WEST OF EAGLE ROAD, EAST OF ALLEN STREET:
MacCoy: Open the public hearing. Staff what do you have?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner’s. This is for the project that is immediately south
of Jackson’s Food Stores on Eagle Road. This is Magic View. This is where the
McDonalds’s Chevron and Idaho Central Credit Union were approved with the future
road that is proposed to come down approximately and line up with this. They are
proposing 2 medical office buildings at this location. Unfortunately I based my
comments on two applications, only one of which is before you tonight. They have
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 17
submitted Annexation and Zoning only to be heard tonight. The Conditional Use Permit
will be on the August 10th
meeting.
MacCoy: What’s the other property, I mean what’s the other company or what do you
want to call it? Is that Sontag coming in there?
Stiles: On this piece? That’s something you going to see next month. This is where
the Holiday Inn Express was approved and is under construction right now. Gentry Way
will be built as a public street. It will have the hammer head down at the end. We do
list within our comments that combine the condition use permit and the annexation and
zoning, some conditions for development agreement as a condition of approval, but
staff recommends that the application be approved for the use as proposed—like I say
again, your not going to see that one until next month.
De Weerd: I would prefer that you show the proposed project, if you would.
Stiles: Like I say..this is not what your voting on tonight. It is a public record, this is a
condition use permit application they prepared and submitted. Like I say Gentry Street.
This will be Allen Street. Hubble Engineering has their development approved over
here. We do have another application that’s been approved over here. This will be the
Microtel and again this is Jackson’s. They have landscaped through out. We have
made some comments some site specific comments based on this site plan that they
submitted and that you have somewhere in you packets. Based on the plan that was
given us, we did recommend approval. A nice looking building and plan. Met all of our
requirement or could easily be revised to meet our requirements so that’s why we
recommended approval of the project.
MacCoy: I’ve seen the two projects and they are architecturally designed and very
nice. It would be a nice addition.
De Weerd: Shari, could you show the other map and again point out the surrounding
develops.
Stiles: This would be St. Lukes over here, one of their entrances aligns here. The
Chevron here, can you see, Idaho Central Credit Union, this property has not come yet
for an application. Hubble Engineers did their 5 lot subdivision here and they are going
to build their office building down here. This you have an application for for another
development. This is the Holiday Inn Express that is being built. Up here or
approximately that area would be where the existing traffic signalization is where a
public street will be extended and come down to align with (inaudible) street eventually.
De Weerd: And do you know when that is slated for ?
Stiles: I don’t know when this section is slated to happen. Ada County Highway District
is requiring everyone within this area to pay extraordinary impact fees to help construct
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 18
that road to pay for the right of way and actual construction. I think is was, I don’t know
if that included acquisition but it was about $650,000 I think..the construction costs. So
I don’t have an exact date for you. I know that the portion on this lot here is supposed
to be done by the time they get occupancy. Just that portion, I believe.
De Weerd: But is does sound like that is a priority project.
Stiles: Yes, as long as the developer pays for it.
MacCoy: That’s all your information?
De Weerd: Is there a report from ACHD? Will that accompany the CUP? Is there
anything from ACHD on this?
Stiles: I didn’t have in my packet I don’t believe a report from Ada County Highway
District. Typically, they would wait till they saw an actual proposal before they would
make any comment or any significant comment because they will base traffic counts
and some of their other requirements on traffic. Actually, I do have a report. I don’t
know if it is in you packets. It is dated ACHD commission date was June 23rd
. Do you
have that Angel.
Sims: No.
Stiles: This report is June or received June 21st
. It’s a draft and it’s based on the
annexation rezone, but again they are going to reiterate most of their conditions within
the condition use permit application.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
MacCoy: Any other questions for the staff? No, okay thank you Shari. Bruce anything
you want to add to this right now for water, sewer or anything else.
Freckleton: One point of clarification. Shari mentioned Idaho Central Credit Union. I
believe it is Idaho Power Credit Union. As far as water and sewer goes, I have noting
further to add other than the Holiday Inn has been set back a little bit. They have
extended some water and sewer line to serve their site. At this point of time, the City
has not accepted their lines for ownership and maintenance and when I spoke with the
developer’s representative a week before last, he told me they expected to be back up
and running on that project in two weeks. He didn’t figure there was going to be any
problems but as this point of time, those lines are not ours. (inaudible) move forward
with Holiday Inn and we won’t—
MacCoy: Do you have the completion of Holiday Inn.
Freckleton: I’m sorry.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 19
MacCoy: Do you happen to know the completion date for Holiday Inn?
Freckleton: I don’t.
MacCoy: Because they seem to be have been lagging right along. They were going to
be—
Freckleton: Right like I said they kind of had a set back and construction stopped and
they expected to be gearing back up again in a couple weeks.
MacCoy: When they came through us they were in a big hurry and now they are not
going very fast. All right, thank you Bruce. Is the applicant here for the public hearing
that would like to speak to us?
Simonds: I am Andy Simonds with Fermor, LLC, P.O. Box 15407, Boise, ID 83705.
First off we concur with staffs recommendations regarding the annexation and rezoning.
I did notice—one tid bit of information for you, the issue at the ACHD meeting was
addressed. As it stands right now, we are on the agenda for ACHD on July 28th
for both
our conditional use and for the annexation and rezone. They decided to combine that.
Oh bit of a wrinkle, I noticed that as Miss Stiles had done the condition use comments
for this project. We submitted for the conditional use July 1st
, but we more or less
concur with all of her comments under general requirements and also under sites
specific requirements. Is there a way we could put this on the consent agenda for the
next hearing?
MacCoy: Let me ask staff about that right now.
De Weerd: Put what on the consent agenda? The CUP?
Simonds: The CUP, but approve the annexation and rezone at this hearing.
MacCoy: The annexation and zoning is on the agenda.
Borup: At this point there is no public hearing.
MacCoy: It would be notice, they tell me, for the August 10th
hearing.
Simonds: I realize that the condition use is not on hearing tonight, but there is no way,
since notices have not gone out, we can not –
Sims: Give the public a chance to give testimony also.
De Weerd: I’m sorry. City Clerk you need to speak into the microphone.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 20
Sims: I was speaking into Malcolm’s.
Borup: Maybe a clarification for Shari. My understanding the reason this is even
requiring a condition use is because of two buildings on one lot?
Stiles: Two buildings on one lot and the fact that our Comprehensive Plan designates—
I would love to do what they are asking, but we have not heard if there is any opposing
testimony either, so.
Borup: Well the testimony is going to be here for the annexation and zoning.
Stiles: Right.
MacCoy: Okay, you can go ahead.
Simonds: That is all I have.
MacCoy: That’s all you have? Any questions for him. Any questions from the
Commissioners. Okay, thank you very much. Anyone here who would like to speak on
behalf of this project? It is pretty quite in the house. Anyone here that would like to
speak on the negative side of this project? Seeing none, I bring is back to the
Commissioner’s again.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we close the public hearing.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: all in Favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: Ayes have it. Go ahead, what’s you next decision?
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move that we recommend approval of annexation and zoning of
3.77 acres for CG Zoning for the proposed Eagle Road Professional Center. That we
incorporate all comments made and specific on staff comments, just the comments
pertaining to the zoning and annexation be included.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: Good job. All In favor?
Borup: What I was excluding comments on is CUP.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 21
MacCoy: The Ayes have it. Moving on.
ITEM 7. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
USE OF EXISTING BUILDING FOR A PRIVATE SCHOOL BY CAPITAL CHRISTIAN
CENTER—NORTH OF FAIRVIEW & WEST OF EAGLE ROAD.
MacCoy: I think most of us know where that is. Staff?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner’s. This is where the existing Capital Christian
Center is on Fairview Avenue, Hickory Way goes into Dove Meadows and further on
there is Packard Subdivision. This is where Louie’s Restaurant will be constructing their
restaurant, hopefully very soon. To the east is all vacant land. There is an 80 acre
piece in there that’s still farmed. Private schools in this zone or virtually any zone in
which they are allowed require a condition use permit. The church has submitted this
request for conditional use permit so they may conduct a private school for I believe a
maximum of 100 students or they hope to have eventually 100 students. They can
present more on that. Within the existing facility, staff did not make any comments on
this or comments that we would make verbally. We just want to insure that all building
and uniform building and uniform fire codes are met. The (inaudible) requirements are
met as part of that building code. That we review the sewer and water assessment
and if there are additional assessments required for the usage, they pay those fees and
that they review –I have not gone out there and actually looked at it –the fencing and
buffering be reviewed on the remainder of their site here to insure that the adjacent
residential uses are not negatively impacted.
MacCoy: Bruce, do you have anything to add to that? Is that is Shari. All right, thank
you. This is a public hearing. Is the applicant here to speak on behalf of this project?
Reams: Chairman and Commission, this is a building that has been there 5 years. We
have used it for children’s programs on a regular service time.
MacCoy: Can we get your name and address?
Reams: Oh I am sorry. Randy Reams, I am a resident of Nampa, but I am an
employee at Capital Christian Center here at 2760 E. Fairview, Meridian. We used the
building for children’s programs consistently as it is we have rooms set up for
appropriate furniture for children and all. We hope to have like our first year a
kindergarten/first grade/second grade type setting. And as the kids mature and grow
older we would add a grade to accommodate growing in the process. We don’t expect
for the first 2 years even, more than 100 students. We just don’t see that. The church
runs about 1,800 people and we expect that to serve most of the people that are in the
congregation. They have began to express interest to us for that desire and we have
had a person that is a school administrator present their services and want to work with
us on that. We are really excited about it. On the questions that Shari brought up,
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 22
we’ve all ready meet all disability act requirements in the building. The one place we
will have to do it and we realize this, is bring the fire code levels up for school
environment and we have already considered that. The fencing, I am not for sure what
Shari is wanting. We have fencing all along the west side there all the way back to the
base ball field and that is where Dove Meadow subdivision is. Behind us is farm, to the
other side of us the east side of us is 80 acres of farm. So as far as fencing, if they
require more fencing we would be glad to do that.
MacCoy: I think what she is after, if your going to have a play ground for children, your
going to have to have the whole thing fenced off. That’s the whole point.
Reams: Yeah, and we’ve already got, if you allow us being a church, we’ve already got
designated funds that people have, designated for playground and as the Commission
moves, how ever they choose, we will take those and move forward including the fire
code things as you allow us to more forward in that process.
MacCoy: You’ve read the fire code requirements?
Reams: Well I have talked to Raymond Voss several times. Five or six different times
to make sure of what we have to do to meet that standard.
MacCoy: Very good, because it’s not cheap. Anything else?
Reams: I don’t believe so.
MacCoy: Commissioner’s?
Borup: My own question I have is on the fire alarm and sounds like that’s been
addressed.
Reams: Yeah, what we have gone to is when we originally got the conditional use
permit for the building as it is, there is another back of the section and in your packet it
would show that the future construction that adds another so many feet onto the back of
the building. I went and met with Shari and Raymond Voss and Building Department in
one meeting and discussed in what they wanted to see (inaudible) that one little
section, cause we’re under that process now—raising funds for that back section. What
do you want to see from us and at that point, I talked to Raymond then, that because of
the increased size of the building, that might bring us already outside of this conditional
use purpose. Under the purpose we are we may all ready have to. Take the building to
the next stage fire code wise. It is something that we are all ready expecting to move
along with. It’s just how expediently we need to do that, based upon your decision.
Realizing, that that school year would not start this September due to the time factor.
And still yet have to go to City Council. It would be the next following September, not
this September we would be looking at.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 23
MacCoy: Good planning.
De Weerd: I just had an unrelated comment. I am anxious now to go out and see your
property and I see you have an ampetheater back there.
Reams: Yeah. It’s been there when we were building the building we met there for
services, so it’s been there.
De Weerd: Fantastic. That’s great.
MacCoy: It’s really a nice facility. I’ve been in the place a number of times—services
and special events. You do a fine job there. It is a real asset to the community, I think.
Barbeiro: You had mentioned the fencing of a playground area. Can you tell me if you
plan to build a incremental playground area or if you intended to fence the entire
perimeter.
Reams: I don’t believe we planned the whole perimeter because that limits access by
the community. People come and use our amphitheater and come and play in the ball
field. The ball field is maintained by Little League. We let the Little League, Northwest
Little League Association, they run that. So if we fence is off completely we feel that
might limit the community feeling that we are trying to portray with our facility and
services.
De Weerd: So again, an unrelated question. You can use that amphitheater?
Reams: Come and see me. I am the facilities administrator and we fill our a
reservation form. I do say the mesquites are bad out there.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Barbeiro: I would like to get an idea of what you’ve planned for a playground area for
the school. Again, I am not visualizing. It is just going to go back 30 feet past the
building?
Reams: No, we discussed several options. If you have in the packet a floor plan of the
building. If you look at the west side of the building, then there is a small floor plan, I
believe in that packet that I submitted. I don’t believe it did not have to be. They did not
request that at the time. I did that for the purpose –if you look along the—this being
north on the building, there is exit doors to the outside of the building off these
classrooms. This is a grass—the parking comes out here—there is a grassed area
here. We considered either fencing that because then it allows access from inside the
building right to playground spot without kids having to go out somewhere else. That
access or creating one in that—you see the parking (inaudible) there to the right which
would be east, there is a concrete slab there with an open area. It’s not concrete right
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 24
in the center of that. We have discussed where to put those places and it also depends
on how much donations come in, the size of equipment you can purchase because that
equipment is not inexpensive. The size of the equipment determines exactly where we
put that and it also depends as you saw on the drawings of future construction, we have
a center courtyard between the two wings. The back end of this building goes extended
and leaves an open courtyard in dead center. A lot of it depends on how much
equipment we can purchase at the time. We’ve got a lot of grass out back. The open
field is the amphitheater all lawn mowed grass and so is the ball field. The whole front
area is all lawn, if they wanted to do lawn. If that is a requirement, we will discuss that
with your staff what they would like to see. I wasn’t for certain what requirements there
would be for playground for school. That is why we have given ourselves plenty of time
to work with that.
MacCoy: Any other questions for him. Thank you very much. Very well done. Open
public hearing, anyone hear would like to speak on behalf of this project?
Bremmer: My name is Robert Bremmer. 1307 E. 5th
Street, Meridian. I have been a
member of this church since 1993. We are very excited about the proposal here as my
wife and I have children that will be of age 1st
and kindergarten years when the school
starts next year. We just wanted to lean our support. We are excited about it. That’s
all we wanted to say.
MacCoy: Okay, thank you very much. Anyone else want to say something at this
moment. Give some support.
De Weerd: There is a lot of future students out there.
MacCoy: Anyone else, if not we change the tone to anyone want to make an opposition
to this proposal. What side on you on by the way. You want to say yes or no.
Knighton: At this point I am a little undecided, but I’d like—Cheryl Knighton. 2580 E.
Clarene Court. I am on the back side of Dove Meadows right up again the Packard
Estates. The first thing I would like to say is I was a little disappointed that the notice
did not go any farther than the residents of East Apricot Court and East Clarene Court.
North Hickory Way impacts both the Dove Meadows, the Chateau and Packards Estate.
There is no other entrance into those three subdivisions until Locust Grove. North
Hickory Way is a very, very busy street. I congratulation the congregation of the church.
They do fill up their parking lot, but they also fill up North Hickory Way on Sunday
mornings. My main concern is the parking. Hickory Way is used quite a bit for on street
parking during services, not only on Sunday but sometimes during the week. In regards
to the fencing, I don’t believe there is fencing on the back sides of the properties on
East April Court or East Clarene Court. I can look from my property and see the back
end of the facility there. I would also like to have some way of limiting the number of
students that would be attending this school and not leave it open ended so that in time
there could be three or four hundred children attending or even more. There will be, if I
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 25
understand correctly, an elementary school on the corner of Eagle and Fairview road at
some point of time. Especially with the RT that is going to be developed into a
restaurant and any other developments that go into that area, we are just adding more
and more traffic to North Hickory Way. We are not at a point where it is very difficult to
get from North Hickory Way onto Fairview and with the other developments going into
that area, with the Eagle Family Center there on the corner, It is just going to get
worse. I would like to maybe see a set amount of students allowed at the school and
perhaps a no parking zone from Fairview into the subdivision at Dove Meadows.
MacCoy: Let me make one comment to you. You can right now, as residents of your
area to ask the police department of the City to petition for a no parking zone. That is
within your realm all ready.
Knighton: The Police Department?
MacCoy: Yes the Police Department. That is an avenue you can take on right now and
maybe a good time to do it.
Knighton: Yeah it is getting bad and I would really would appreciate if especially during
service hours and if they are going to get the permit to put the school in that they use
the parking lot, cause they’ve got a nice one there. Thank you.
Borup: I have a question too. Mr. Chairman, although we did not ask them, I am
assuming the school hours are going to be from 9 to 3. Do you have concern on
parking during those hours.
Knighton: Not really, no, but it will increase the traffic on Hickory Way going in and out
of the parking lot, because of how it’s configured there.
Borup: Yes, that is obvious. It sounds like your main concern is on Sunday.
Knighton: I would think that is will have some additional problems there during the
week because of the increase of the number of people using the facility during the
week. Using the street to park on rather than the parking lot. I don’t know what type of
school that they will have or if it’s bussed or if parents will be dropping off or picking up
and using the parking lot to drop off and pick up or –if the busses will impact it in any
way. There is just a lot open concerns for the parking and the access on Hickory Way.
Borup: Your concerned with the parking?
Knighton: The parking on the street.
Borup: Okay. I guess I don’t have a lot of concern about grade school kids dropping
cars to school and parking, so—
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 26
Knighton: No they wouldn’t be parking, but the parent bringing them and the teachers
and any body else that would be utilizing the building during those hours.
MacCoy: Thank you very much. Anyone like to speak either side of the fence now
since we’ve covered both sides right now. Your going to get a chance here in a minute.
Okay, seeing none will the applicant come back forward please. You can do your
answering.
Reams: Randy Reams again. I’d like to address I think your correct about the fence. I
was my mistake for the first half of that there is a birm there, a tree birm that we put in,
in place of a fence. Your correct. I apologize. The parking issue on Sunday’s, I’d just
like to assure her that as something as a staff, we’ve already began to address. When
we had our Easter Service and a couple others, we even rented signs to put out on the
road to tell our people not to park there. We hear your concern, and it is something that
we are trying to address to the congregation as individuals. So I just wanted to address
that for that person’s sake it is something that we have considered, strongly considered
and I just wanted to address that for her.
MacCoy: Anything else? Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else as we have gone
through the house here and asked for questions and answers and nothing is left.
Commissioner’s.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move we close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: Thank you.
Barbeiro: Mr. Chairman may I ask staff a question?
MacCoy: You may.
Barbeiro: Shari do we know if there are any plans for a stop light at Hickory and
Fairview?
Stiles: Hickory is proposed to be signalized. Ada County Highway District did not make
any comments about requiring any addition impact fees to go into that. I don’t know if
they have paid in the past. We got a very limited report from them. I know you closed
the public hearing, but I had a couple things.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 27
Barbeiro: Mr. Chairman. You’ve done some work with ACHD. Are you aware of the
time frame for the stop light.
MacCoy: No I am not. When you made that questions, I started to think and I don’t
remember that being on the agenda I was looking at. At least I was not really
concerned about that one.
Barbeiro: What I find my concern is and I see that of Mrs. Knighton, that on Sunday
you don’t have a great deal of traffic on there, so left or right hand turns into Hickory
Way are not a real concern. On a Monday through Friday, 9 to 5, parents coming in
and out of there and making a left hand turn is going to back up an awful lot of cars.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, just to add to maybe Commissioner Barbeiro's remark. I
have found, we have a busy subdivision and we have a elementary street down the
road, and most the traffic, the school traffic would impact is all ready gone to work by
the time the school hours are impacting anything, so generally anyway in the areas that
I have been in, it doesn’t seem to have too much more of an impact.
Barbeiro: Okay. Thank you.
MacCoy: What is your decision here? Our attorney, Justin, do you have anything you
want to say here? All right. Commissioner’s what’s your idea about—you’ve closed the
public hearing.
De Weerd: I guess I just have one additional question for staff. Most of our elementary
schools can get—it looks like maybe we need to open the public hearing back up to
maybe introduce the ACHD report?
MacCoy: Your asking a question of Shari right now. Which she can speak to.
Borup: We don’t have it in our packet, so it might be—
De Weerd: If there is some additional information that we need to introduce we
probably should reopen the public hearing.
MacCoy: Your correct. That’s a good point.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we reopen the public hearing.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 28
MacCoy: The public hearing has been reopened. Shari, from the stand point of staff, is
something missing from our packets that we should have at this moment?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner’s in addition to the three items that I mentioned at
the beginning which was the codes and the assessments and the fencing and buffering,
I would like to add two additional items. No parking on the unpaved areas be permitted,
even though that’s an ordinance requirement. We’ve discussed it. I mean we have had
several meetings with the church and they have come a long way from where they
were, even a couple years ago, even as far as complying with the ordinance. There
have been a few complains when they have been gracious enough to offer their facility
to other people that they are just tearing out beyond the parking lots clear out to the
fields. We would like the church to, as part of this condition use permit, to make sure
that’s controlled and that the only parking are in designated parking areas. As far as
what someone else has requested about possibly restricting parking on the street,
during certain times, that would be an issue probably for the police and fire departments
and the Ada County Highway District, if they wanted to restrict hours. I am sure if Ada
County Highway District got enough comments on that they would definitely try to make
a change, if it was especially a safety problem. One other issue that we have talked
about with the applicant and that we did want to include as part of the condition use
permit, is to make sure that all signage goes through a permitting process so that we
review that signage and that there are not the temporary reader boards and temporary
signs that have been out there on the birm in the past. They are required –I am not
sure if they finished the –this was part of a subdivision called Angel Park Subdivision. I
think—I don’t know—I don’t think that was ever recorded. It included the 2 lots to the
southwest there. There are 2 lots there, one where Louie’s has received a conditional
use permit for their restaurant and there is still another piece right on the intersection
there, the northwest intersection. With all these developments coming together, they
have put money, I believe the church has put in money, Louie’s Restaurant they may
not have all ready put up the money, but would be required to prior to ever having the
building there to pay a portion of that signalization there. A portion of that money has
all ready been paid. It may take stepping up on their part, but with all the activity, all the
development and buildings that are going up there, I would say that it is in the near
future that that was going to be signalized.
De Weerd: Right. Just my other question would be, is their parking lot adequate to
handle a much larger capacity as their school would grow.
Stiles: They would far exceed our ordinance requirements for school. It it’s not
concurrent with church services.
De Weerd: As far as capacity, where would they max out with their current parking
spots.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 29
Stiles: If they are talking—when they get to high school age, that’s a different formula
we use. I believe for –without my ordinance here I am not sure, but it’s for elementary
age, it’s one per 10 children, I believe or –
De Weerd: A lot of kids could be accommodated.
Stiles: With the parking that they have, they would far exceed our ordinance
requirements. Don’t quote me on that one for 10, but it might be 10 for class. It maybe
10 per classroom.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
MacCoy: Any other questions? The public hearing has been reopened at this point I’ll
ask the applicant do you want to make any statement at this point since you’ve got a
chance.
Reams: In some difficulties we had with occupancy permit, I had a meeting with ACHD
and they approved this as we are based upon original permit back in 1992 and they
expressed to me at the time, and I talked to the owner of that corner lot, and he said he
had to bond 4 wide at that intersection. That is Fred Lotridge if that needs to be for
public record. He told me that any future construction here, even if we go beyond our
original permit, they will also require us to be involved in that light process. I know their
desire is to put a light there. I think that as Shari said, they will require the monies to
come in to fund a light at that corner which I agree is a good idea. Parking as far as the
school is concerned, we have enough I think without emptying into the street, you can
park for enough adults in that sanctuary of 800 adults in there to 1000 adults. By the
time we get to 1000 adults, we do tend to spill over to the street and we are trying to
address that. Student wise, if every high school student drove, you’d have 800 high
school students. That would put you right up there with the public schools and I really
don’t think that that is going to happen even over a very long period of time.
MacCoy: That is probably very true. Anything else you want to say? All right
Commissioner’s what do you want to do now?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman I move that we close the public hearing.
Barbeiro: I second the motion.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MacCoy: What is your decision about the condition use permit.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 30
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman I move that we recommend approval for the request for
conditional use permit for the private school by Capital Christian Center to include the
verbal comments by staff.
Barbeiro: Mr. Chairman, if I may add a (End of Tape)
De Weerd: And any written comments that were submitted.
MacCoy: And you had something Tom?
Barbeiro: If I may, I would like to add to Commissioner De Weerd’s recommendation
that we include a limited number of students and that once the school reaches that
number of students that they come before the Commission again to ask for additional
conditional – an amendment to the conditional use permit. Perhaps we could have 100
students. Would that appropriate Commissioner?
De Weerd: I don’t see the reason for it.
Barbeiro: I see that once we reach 100 students or so, and we have more development
in that area at the point where we reach 100 students that the other developments and
the neighbors will want to comment on the expansion of the school.
De Weerd: So you’re saying when they reach 100, which is what they’re trying to
achieve the first two years, they have to come back?
Barbeiro: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay, well if I don’t get a second then you’ll have a chance to put that on
there.
MacCoy: She’s not accepting it in other words.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: So, we have a motion presently and would you kindly restate that right now
so that we are presently involved –
De Weerd: Well I just moved to recommend approval for the conditional use permit for
a private school by Capital Christian Center to include all verbal and written comments
by staff.
Borup: And I seconded that.
MacCoy: All in favor?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 31
De Weerd: Just for a matter of discussion, I think with the traffic and the parking
concerns that this school is going to have to get rather big first of all to not
accommodate parking, but secondly I do think that in every elementary school situation
because of the varied hours of people’s normal workdays and I would stress normal, it
does impact the traffic. I would be naïve to say it wouldn’t but not overly so. I
understand what you’re trying to get to Commissioner, but I just think that you know
limiting it to 100 is what their application is for if you say 500, I could understand that.
Just for FYI.
MacCoy: Good point. So far we’ve got a motion and a second on that one. Any other
discussion to go before we make a vote? Okay, all in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: 2 AYES, 1 NAY.
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO
OPERATE A THRIFT STORE—BY THE SALVATION ARMY—EAST OF 1ST
STREET AND SOUTH OF FAIRVIEW (4308 W. STATE STREET).
Borup: The letter I received said there would no hearing on this. It was worked out with
staff. This was a permitted use. Is that correct?
MacCoy: I was going to go into the next thing I was going to say was right to Shari and
say where do we stand? But having by the agenda here, I have got to announce what
we’re doing here. They’re operating a thrift store by Salvation Army east of 1st
Street
and south of Fairview, and having made that statement I would like to go to Shari
because in the paperwork, you made a statement.
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I have met with the Salvation Army, Captain Tom
Peterson. There was some concern when they initially asked for permission to use this
building, what some of those uses were. It was very vague, the letter we received
asking for a certificate of zoning compliance, could have included any number of
services and for that reason we requested them to submit a conditional use application.
In subsequent meetings with them, they have agreed to limit their use to the retail side
only. They will be a thrift store. They will not be providing indigent services. It’s not
going to be any kind of a mission there. It is strictly a store. As part of their certificate
of zoning compliance and our agreement to offer an occupancy for the building, we
have asked that the items listed in our memo of July 9th
, 1999 be incorporated. We will
be working with them. It is going to be I imagine a lot of work with them to try to get that
site up to ordinance requirements as far as the handicapped parking. We met with
them with the building inspector today. He believes or he is going to make sure that it
meets ADA requirements. They understand the signage will be subject to review and
that the sewer and water assessments are subject to review. They will be providing
landscaping. It may be that they have to bond or put up some cash or a letter of credit
for that landscaping because some of the property to the south of that is also
considering some building permits and will have to bring their site up to ordinance
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 32
requirements. For that reason, we ask that this application be withdrawn and that staff
will work with them for their certificate of occupancy.
MacCoy: Very good. Have you had agreement with the Salvation Army to withdraw
this?
Stiles: Yes, they were more than happy to withdraw it.
MacCoy: Okay based on this then, the communication between you as part of the city
and they as the new applicant, can we just go ahead and just drop this at this moment?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, it was posted as a public hearing though.
MacCoy: I know it was. I’m trying to find out how this kind of conversation went on,
because I think since it was posted as a public hearing, we’re compelled and I’ll ask the
attorney, but I think we’re compelled to continue this thing on through the public
hearing. Mr. Attorney?
Aylsworth: If it was posted as a conditional use permit, you should probably allow
public hearings.
MacCoy: By the legal part of this, we’ll continue on. Thank you Shari for your
comments though because we’re going to need them. Is the applicant or a
representative of the applicant here today? Seeing that, it’s still an open public hearing.
Anybody here in favor of this that would like to make a statement on the record?
Anybody here willing to make statement that is opposed to this for the record?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, just one comment before we close the public hearing.
MacCoy: Well we haven’t got that far yet, but go ahead.
De Weerd: Well it doesn’t look like anyone is here for this.
MacCoy: I’m going to say since there’s nobody here, I’m bringing it back to the
commission here anyway.
De Weerd: I guess my only question for staff is when you work with the applicant, are
they going to screen the drop off site? Is there going to be some kind of screening?
Stiles: They have agreed that there will be no drop off site. They’ve agreed that that is
not a good location to have a drop off site, so if people are going to donate goods, they
will have to be there during operating hours and bring it into the store. There won’t be –
they end up taking more trips to the dump than they get out of donations at those sites
when they leave it open like that.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 33
De Weerd: Okay, thank you.
MacCoy: All right, commissioners, do you want to close the public hearing?
De Weerd: I would move we close the public hearing.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, what kind of action are we supposed to do on this if it’s been
withdrawn?
Borup: At this point, we don’t have an application. There’s nothing to act on, is there?
MacCoy: Well that’s what I’m going to ask the attorney because to deny this is not the
thing. They’ve already had the agreement to withdraw it, so what do you want to do
now?
Aylsworth: It might be prudent just to continue or table the conditional use permit
application until you actually get an application for a permitted use or a request to
withdraw the application from the applicant themselves.
MacCoy: That’s a good point. That way that covers us and it covers the thing legally.
Okay, you just closed the public hearing. Do you want to reopen the public hearing and
then make it a continued public hearing and then move on?
De Weerd: Or we could just table it and then they can officially withdraw at the next
scheduled –
MacCoy: All right. Do you want to do it that way?
Borup: Yes.
MacCoy: Is that okay?
Aylsworth: Yes, that’s just what I explained.
MacCoy: Okay.
Barbeiro: Mr. Chairman, would that prevent the Salvation Army from opening their store
if they wished to open it perhaps tomorrow? It would not, okay. Shari acknowledged
that that would not (inaudible).
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 34
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we table the request for CUP by the
Salvation Army until – do I need a date certain? Until August 10th
. That’s just going to
be a housekeeping issue. Right?
Borup: Put it on the consent agenda.
De Weerd: Yeah, can we put that on the consent agenda? Okay. We need a second
on my motion.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
9. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 2.0
ACRES OF LAND FOR OFFICE USE (I-L ZONING) FOR JACKSON’S FOOD
STORES—NORTH OF FRANKLIN ROAD & EAST OF EAGLE ROAD.
MacCoy: Since this is an annexation and zoning, Shari, what do you have for us?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, this is for a property out in Commerce Park
Subdivision. Albertson’s would be down here, Coor’s is here, Idaho Truck Specialties is
here. On the front portion of this lot is the Sherwin Williams, and then the Jackson’s
Food Stores has their warehouse facilities, some office and warehouse facilities right
here. They are proposing two buildings on one lot. They go back behind the Sherwin
Williams. We have made our comments that hopefully you have in your packets. The
one thing we didn’t mention, well as far as the comments in our packet, I believe those
could be easily accommodated. I talked to Dale Benning, the architect. This site can
easily accommodate those changes. One thing we didn’t include in our comments that
based on the user, I particularly want to make sure we include this is a restriction on
signage that there be some kind of monument type sign only on the lot no more than 50
square feet. You know a typical office park type of sign and particularly no flashing
lights.
MacCoy: Thank you very much.
Stiles: I guess I’ll put up here – is there any question what’s there? Ron Van Auker
owns this property here, this is where the new middle school site is. Pine Street will
eventually come down and connect with Emerald in this location. The Crossroads
Subdivision, the Family Center here, most of this is not built out yet. We have Elixer
Industries over here and industrial park over here. I don’t believe I took any copies of
the elevations for transparency, but here’s the basic site plan.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 35
MacCoy: We have the elevations in our packet anyway.
Stiles: Commercial Street here, the existing Sherwin Williams and then their office
building back behind there. There is the issue of the Settlers Canal that runs through
here. I don’t know what Settlers expects to be done with that. If we can get some
documentation that it will require over a 48 inch pipe, perhaps the City Council will
waive that requirement for the tiling. Bruce, do you have anything to add? And we
would just ask that it be recommended for approval for the annexation and zoning. I
have covered the annexation and zoning really and the conditional use permit, and
would like my comments to be included in the next public hearing, but our comments
that we have submitted with the addition of restriction on signage and that’s all we have.
MacCoy: Okay thank you, and Bruce you didn’t have anything you wanted to add to
that?
De Weerd: Shari, where’s the retention area or drainage?
Stiles: Maybe Dale Benning could address that as part of his – it doesn’t show any
drainage area. I would imagine they would have some subsurface pits. They realize
that they will have to retain it on site to meet our standards.
De Weerd: Okay, thanks.
MacCoy: Is that it Shari? Is the applicant here then or someone who is speaking for
the stores?
Benning: Dale Benning, I’m the architect for Jackson’s Food Stores. I’m at 1590
Shenandoah in Boise. I could start with if there’s any questions that anybody has, I
would be glad to answer them. I could begin by answering the on site retainage –
MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd has already raised a question, so you might want to
start with that one.
Benning: The area that is delineated is the dark dotted shaded area up by the Sherwin
Williams building and then running across along the east side of the store.
MacCoy: Do you want to go over and point to it and use the mike up there?
Benning: We already have the storm water retention area for the Sherwin Williams
building which was developed from here forward. This is already in place. This is the
lawn area. Because of the shallow groundwater conditions, this was what the
engineering required to retain – determined it was the way to retain the water on site, so
this is already in place. So is this landscaping here, and this is the edge of pavement
right along the back of the building, back of Sherwin Williams right here. All of the other
area that’s shown like this is also the storm water retention proposed for the office
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 36
warehouse building. It goes along that side and across the back and across here, and
there’s also landscaped areas all along through here and in the back where the trees
and shrubs are. Shari made the comment about the signage and I believe if you have
exterior elevations in your packet there, they show a low profile monument sign that’s in
front of the building and that’s what is –
MacCoy: I was hoping that is what it was going to be.
Benning: That’s it.
MacCoy: Anything else?
Benning: No, I would just like to answer any questions.
MacCoy: Any questions of the Commissioners?
Borup: Shari had mentioned about the irrigation ditch. Do you have any comments on
that?
Benning: We will work with the irrigation district there. We’ve already been in touch
with them and we have our survey at this point that shows exactly where that width is,
the banks and easements and things so that we can begin addressing any concerns
that the irrigation district has. I think just from looking at it, I think it’s too big to tile. But
that’s what we’re going to evaluate and –
Borup: I may have misunderstood, but I thought her concern was on the right-of-way
and if the design accommodates the existing right-of-way.
Benning: Yes, it does. There is the existing right-of-way plus the easement for the
access to the irrigation ditch. The property line is shown there from the back property
line over to the ditch is actually about to the bank of the ditch right now is about 35 to 40
feet so they already have access to it without requiring any easements.
Borup: Okay. That’s all I had. Thank you.
MacCoy: Anybody else? Okay, thank you very much. Again this is a public hearing.
Anybody here would like to speak in favor of this project? Seeing nobody, anybody
here would like to speak in opposition to this project? Seeing nobody on the other side,
Commissioners?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I would move to close the public hearing.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 37
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: What’s your decision for annexation and zoning?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman I move that we approve the annexation and zoning of 2.0
acres for I-L zoning and to include staff comments.
Borup: You say you move to recommend approval?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borup: I second that.
De Weerd: If I didn’t, I meant to.
MacCoy: Any discussion? All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR PUD
TO ALLOW OFFICE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION ON ADJOINING SITE FOR
JACKSON’S FOOD STORES—NORTH OF FRANKLIN ROAD & EAST OF
EAGLE ROAD.
MacCoy: This is again a public hearing. Going to staff, Shari do you have any
comments you want to make on this now?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, just to incorporate the testimony from the
previous public hearing.
MacCoy: Okay, thank you. Does the applicant want to come back and make his
statement along the same general line or add to it or whatever.
Benning: Dale Benning again. The comments, general requirements and site specific
requirements that are listed here have all been addressed and are incorporated into the
site plan that we have here. We will provide the exact calculations to show the
landscaping and paving and the requirements that follow this. We exceed all those
requirements as it is shown at this time with the only thing that is not indicated on that
plan that would bring us into compliance with the site specific requirements is the non
combustible fence along the back property line by the ditch and that’s if it is not tiled. I
don’t think it will be. I think it’s too big.
MacCoy: Any questions for him at this point?
De Weerd: Just what kind of fence that would be.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 38
Benning: Chain link.
De Weerd: And I see that this road going along your north border, does that then go to
the next property over since Jackson’s owns that as well?
Benning: Oh, yes. That wraps around to the back of their property, yes.
De Weerd: Will that landscaped area also continue over?
Benning: What we have proposed now, it stops right where it’s shown right there.
De Weerd: And that fence would also stop right there? I have nothing further.
MacCoy: All right, thank you. Again does anybody here have any comments in favor of
this project at this moment? Seeing none, is anyone here that’s willing to have any
opposition noticed report? Seeing none, commissioners?
Barbeiro: Mr. Chairman, I move we close the public hearing.
Borup: Just a question for staff. The adjoining properties around that, how much of
that street is annexed at this point?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, if that zoning map we have over there is correct,
this piece Idaho Truck Specialties, Coors, and I believe Albertson’s has all three of
these lots. Those are the only lots within that subdivision that aren’t annexed.
Borup: That are not.
Stiles: Right.
Borup: So where is the contiguous property? That already is up there.
Stiles: And also this is and all of these are and all of these.
Borup: But the property to the north is already annexed.
Stiles: Yes.
Borup: Okay. And the other Jackson’s property is annexed?
Stiles: This lot right here is annexed, yes.
Borup: Thank you.
MacCoy: Any more questions before we close the public hearing or discussion?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 39
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move we close the public hearing.
Barbeiro: I second the motion.
MacCoy: Any discussion? None, all right all in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: We have an approval of conditional use—oh that’s right, we just closed the
public hearing. I am getting carried away on this thing. All right, discussion. What’s
your decision on the final piece of this?
De Weerd: Shari, I guess I have a question for you. As far as the grassy areas that are
kept for retention areas, are those also irrigated? I mean, are they only when there is
City water are they green?
Stiles: They certainly can be irrigated. They can be designed to be irrigated. They can
be designed so that they are merely a swale that’s incorporated in the landscape and
they could have trees around the upper areas, but depend on what volume of water
there going to have to be---
De Weerd: Is that something that the staff looks at?
Stiles: We’re going to have to look at that, especially there is shallow ground water in
that area and I don’t know—that will all have to be done by their architect when they
come in for building permits and we’ll have to look at the design of that and make sure
that it can be included as part of that 10 percent, based on the design.
De Weerd: Yeah, I guess my concern is, if it’s not irrigated, it is going to be brown. It’s
not going to be green grass, it’s going to be brown grass.
Stiles: I don’t know if the applicant is to that point yet, but I am sure it will all be
designed to be –
De Weerd: Green grass.
Stiles: Any place that’s planted will have to have underground sprinkling.
De Weerd: Okay. That’s my question. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I had nothing further.
MacCoy: Okay. Thank you. What’s your decision?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 40
De Weerd: Well Mr. Chairman. I would just move that we recommend approval for the
request for a conditional use permit for the Jackson’s Food Stores to include staff
comments.
Borup: Staff written and verbal comments. She specifically added the signage to her
written comment.
De Weerd: And that’s been addressed? Okay. I would do that.
MacCoy: Okay do you want to restate all that?
De Weerd: I move that we recommend approval for the conditional use permit for
Jackson’s Food Stores to include written and verbal staff comments.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: Any discussion? All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED. ALLY AYES.
MacCoy: All right all 3 ayes have it. Thank you. Looking at the clock right now, we try
to recess between 9 and 9:30 and it is 9:15 right now. We’ll take a 10 minute break and
come back and we will pick up with Item 11.
MacCoy: Shari, you ready?
Stiles: Yes sir.
MacCoy: We are going to reconvene now and it is now almost 9:30. We are at Item 11.
I had made an announcement earlier this will be continued anyway.
ITEM 11. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF
20.35 ACRES (FOR R-15 ZONING)OF LAND FOR PROPOSED 300 UNITS OF
MULTI-FAMILY RENTALS FOR PROPOSED SUNDANCE VILLAGE—BY
SUNDANCE, LLC—NORTH OF OVERLAND ROAD AND WEST OF LOCUST
GROVE ROAD.
MacCoy: Okay, Shari? Any comments? What do you want to tell us?
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner’s, in addition to the comments at the beginning of
this meeting regarding sewer issues with the following public hearings, we have not
made any sites specific comments on this application and pending our receipt of the
computer model results, we would ask this be continued to a date certain.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 41
MacCoy: We don’t have a date though, right? That’s what I want to find out. We can
do August 10th
or we go into something else.
De Weerd: What date certain are you recommending?
MacCoy: Yeah, or do we even have any idea what we are going to do? Your awful
quite over there. You think about it.
Stiles: At this point, it’s impacting both of them equally, so unless there were a new –
totally new date, I don’t have any suggestions.
MacCoy: Okay, well, if you come up with some good brain—
De Weerd: Oh, so your recommending then that perhaps another date be set to hear
these specific ones.
MacCoy: But we don’t know. If you don’t have the information, you can’t do anything.
Mr. Chairman on (inaudible) I think Shari’s referring to our schedule is very loaded so
when you impact by continuing it to one of our regular meetings, it just maybe very
loaded that evening too. She was referring to maybe a possible special meeting date,
or something of that nature. We’re just getting rolled over (inaudible).
MacCoy: On staff here right now, we had quite a discussion on this earlier this evening
trying to pick more dates because we know we’re loaded. We got another date in this
month and we’ve got August 10 and August something else and so it goes. That’s what
she said at that time, a special meeting we’ve got to name one. All right, she’s made
her statement, is there anyone here representing this annexation and zoning project?
Okay, since this is all going to be on tape, we going to continue this. Anybody here like
to make a statement at this time so they are on record for this project—on the positive
side. On the negative side. All right. I am going to hit somebody’s nerve here pretty
soon.
Hensey: David Hensey, 2298 Weimaraner.
De Weerd: Excuse me sir. I think we need to officially open the public hearing.
MacCoy: I did.
De Weerd: Did you. Sorry, we missed that.
Hensey: I you know the south side of the freeway I-84 is the land of no street light and
one lane freeways, no turn lanes what so ever. With the high growth of the subdivisions
in that area, the traffic has become increasingly worse.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 42
Borup: Sir, I’m not sure we got your name for the record.
Hensey: David Hensey.
MacCoy: He gave that.
Borup: Counsel did not get it down.
Hensey: You know, that where there is a street light at Meridian and Overland, that is
the most congested area in town. If you are trying to get off the freeway and get up
here, and what the main –what I have done over the last couple days since we really
didn’t hear about this is I took a paper out to 100 units in the Sportsman Point
Subdivision and we received signatures from, at this point, 25 back, given only 2 days,
opposing this. The main issue talking to these people is traffic. This is a 300 unit
development, 1.5 cars, you’ve got 450 cars potentially coming in and out of this.
Secondly, there are no parks on our side of the freeway. The Sportsman Point
Subdivision does have a park. How do you police that. If needed, how do you police
that. Schools are overloaded on our side too. Anything like this where you have a high
number of units coming in immediately is going to have a severe impact. We feel that,
talking to a lot of people in the subdivision, this area is more suitable for commercial,
like they had before with the tractors—John Deere and (inaudible) which actually
(inaudible) favorable for the area. They put nice birms up. You know being in a area
right along the freeway, prime freeway advertising space, we feel that the Council
should look at the opportunities of allowing that area for more of a commercial than a
residential or apartment development.
MacCoy: You raise a very good point. I live in the Meridian Green area. Same location
and just for your quick information, on the south side of Overland we will have—that’s
all schooled for R-4 housing and a school, either elementary or a high school and one
over on Eagle. The Overland is supposed to go to three lanes immediately. What that
means, it’s going to be some years I am sure. (Inaudible) for 5 lanes and we have
discouraged the trucking operation you’ve seen signs for the last four companies that
wanted to come in there because they wanted to end up not being like John Deere, not
being like Caterpillar. Those are 8 to 5 type information work operation and they are
fairly quiet. We don’t want for all of you people, all of us impact hammers and paint
fumes and everything else going in. We as a Commission this one and our Council as
well as the Mayor, we’ve been trying to discourage anything like a trucking operation,
but more like a John Deere. Your right. John Deere’s a good partner. So we are
working on your behalf, our behalf. I just wanted to let you know we are not sitting here
dead in the water.
Hensey: Is there submitting signatures or petitioning against this—
MacCoy: You can do that. We’re having an open public hearing—
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 43
Hensey: I am going to gather more. Would it be better another time to bring these
back.
MacCoy: You can bring them in the next time we have a meeting. In fact, I would
advise you to do so.
Hensey: At the rate we are getting we could take it to Raven Hill and the Salmon
Rapids and easily come up with 500 against this.
MacCoy: Very good. Go ahead and do it. Anyone else.
Gaudette: I am Scott Gaudette. I live at 1391 E. Griffen, also in Sportsman Point
Subdivision, immediately south of this proposed complex of apartments. I also agree
with Dennis on many of the points we feel that this complex of apartments in mass in
one small area, is just going to overwhelm the all ready very busy streets. As the, as it
was mentioned, the sewer system is already over burdened, but there are so many
things that are over burdened. We moved into this area from another area of Meridian
because we liked the lifestyle. It’s quiet, it’s peaceful. You had your normal
neighborhood type of situations and our neighbors to the north of Overland Road, the
low key commercial operations are very enjoyable, because they are low key. Their
traffic is, like you said, 8 to 5 or whatever, but they are all intermittent. They never have
in mass at 8 o’clock and in mass leaving at 5 o’clock, at the same time we are trying to
come home and go to work—so and so forth. I feel that this apartment complex, with
that many people, in such a small area is just going to really bottleneck that intersection
up, not to mention also down at Eagle and Overland and Meridian and Overland. Just
tonight coming here, there was a traffic jam almost a mile long. Going a long that line is
that the subdivisions that are there, that are continually expanding plus the new
subdivisions going in, are all ready going to give us more than enough traffic for the
area. With this complex all in one spot, it’s just going to stop the bottleneck. It is not
going to be a bottle neck any more. It’s going to be a cork in the bottle.
MacCoy: It would be a gridlock, is what your talking about.
Gaudette: Very much. I had a lot of notes going, but I –you know everything goes right
along that line. We have a quality of life that we very greatly enjoy down in that area
and all the subdivisions that are going in are still spread out so traffic can flow in several
different directions. Once we get this here, there is only one direction to go. That’s a
very popular direction and I feel the congestion, even if in the future whenever that will
happen, they expanded to 3 lanes, it’s still not going to be quite enough. I know my
wife has gotten into a serious accident near that intersection, about a couple hundred
yards east of there, because of traffic and I know of many others that have also
occurred there and this is just going to add to that, the safety the concerns and the
hazards, future schools. I think the expansion and population of the area continue in
the direction it is now going in that we don’t burn it with apartment complexes.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 44
MacCoy: I think we are going to see a 5 lane before we see a 3 lane anyway because
the ways things have been escalating, we are going to need it. Even though they are
not going to build it for, they say for 3 and put the side boards in for the other two lanes,
I think they are just going to do the job and be done with it.
Gaudette: Right. And so many future projects we have plans to do this. How many
plans don’t we go through with the highway district.
MacCoy: We are pushing real hard from this city here, because we say that we one of
the –really—Overland is considered one of the worst things in Ada County now. I am
glad to see that we finally got ourselves on top of the list.
Gaudette: Waiting for the money to come in too.
MacCoy: That’s a fact. That’s what it is, is money. That is what it comes down to. We
are forced into that. Thanks for your comments. Any questions for him before he goes
away? All right. Anyone else want to speak?
McCoy: My name is Roger McCoy and I live at 1692 S. Sportsman Way. The first
thing I’d like to comment on is the posting of the property—the legal notice to post it.
We called you guys and you don’t have any real recommendations, but the big for sale
sign right here, you got a little 11 X17 notice telling us that these neighbors, I think right
here, they did not get a legal notice in the mail and they also, I mean just looking across
the street, they did not know until we told them. I think that if the property was posted
like cities require then I think you would have a lot more people here tonight. I just don’t
think anybody even saw it.
MacCoy: While we are on the subject, Shari isn’t there a standard sign they put up. It’s
not very big.
Stiles: Our typical sign is an 11 X 17 yellow poster.
McCoy: It’s 11 X 17 but it on a 4 X 8 or 6 X 8 real estate sign that’s half way falling
over, so it’s hard to see. We’ve talked –we’ve been talking to Greg with about our
property taxes because they jacked them up this year, so asked him when we got this
notice –one of the questions we asked him, what’s this going to do to our property
values. He said when the apartment complex goes in and we’ll come out and probably
your property tax will go down because you values go down because of it. It was an
upscale apartment complex, I think it would probably help buffer the freeway noise, but
you know they are not going to be putting an upscale apartment complex next to the
freeway. We are adamantly opposed to it. We think it would deplete the property
values in the area.
MacCoy: I would suggest that like your partner here it is—collect your signatures and if
you have a real feeling for it, write a letter. Include that too. It all comes into the record.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 45
McCoy: Well, my wife told his wife and that how they—they didn’t even know about it till
then. That’s how we got the signatures.
De Weerd: That’s great networking.
McCoy: That’s all I have.
MacCoy: Anyone else?
Sivalon: Ted Sivalon. I live at 2179 S. Weimaraner. My may concern besides what my
neighbors brought up was what type of apartment complex this was going to be. I
don’t see too many people wanting to live next to a freeway as well as Coca-Cola
Distributorship and things of that nature. So if it turns into –you know, is it going to be
vacant? Are they going to have enough people even wanting to live there. Are we
going to have vacant housing that is going to maybe bring not such good neighbors
coming in and what also is going to happen with the spill over of all these people
needing some place for recreation or something of that nature. Are they going to be
coming into our subdivision overloading our park. Our park is pretty small. How do we
go about dealing with that?
De Weerd: I might make one comment. The plan will be, is available for you to come
and look at. They have pictures of what the building will look like, the layout. They
have a lot of open space. They have a lot of amenities that if you look at the plan, you
will see it’s probably one of the nicer complexes I’ve ever seen proposed in Meridian.
That’s just to respond, I don’t think it’s lower end by what amenities their providing and
the look of their building. You might want to take a look at that. It is available on public
record, just so when this is continued to, you can have a chance to look at it and get
your questions in order.
Sivalon: I don’t want to be confrontational but I just found out about this from my
neighbor, so we have not had the opportunity, but you can make a real beautiful
complex, you know but you stick it on a freeway I just don’t see too many people
wanting to really live on a freeway.
MacCoy: I imagine there going to have a buffer zone anyway of some type. I don’t
know what it is going to be, but we will be looking at that. Commissioner De Weerd is
right. You should take a look at the material.
Sivalon: Right. I live all the way to the last row of houses in the Sportsman Point
Subdivision and we can even hear the freeway from back there. Some ways, it may be
nice, cause maybe that would stop some of the noise for us, but they’d be right on the
front line.
MacCoy: Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, come on.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 46
McCoy: Barbara McCoy, 1692 S. Sportsman. I just wanted to reiterate that this whole
area—they are very nice home, including Meridian Greens, Sportsman Point all those
are not the upper, upper end homes as Meridian Greens, but very nice homes. There
are no apartment complexes in the area right now. I believe that putting one in there
would deplete the value of the whole area. Right now it is a very attractive area for
many people that come (inaudible) seeing that what an apartment complex may reduce
the value of the whole area.
MacCoy: Thank you very much.
Johnson: My name is Cole Johnson, 2122 South Chesapeake Avenue in Sportsman
Point. The main problem, my wife and I oppose this very much, one of the main
problems is that most people who go into apartments are transient of nature. In other
words they don’t have ownership. You get more criminal activity. You get more of the
younger people and we think it would impact our area very negatively, impact our
schools negatively, impact our traffic very negatively and right now traffic is so bad that
they all ready have had to lower the speed limits on Overland. What is going to happen
if we add 450 more cars at 8 o’clock in the morning—7:30 in the morning, 5 o’clock at
night. It’s a very big problem. Again, I believe we got our notice from friends over there
in Sportsman’s Point. We just want to reiterate our opposition to any apartment
complex coming into our area.
MacCoy: Any other hands? All right, Commissioner’s.
De Weerd: Well it sound like they have a great network going and we will give you a
date tonight so you will be able to continue that networking and get your neighbors out.
I do think we need to set a date specific and if it’s looking at the two August meetings
are going to be over-burdened, perhaps we need to look at a third date in August.
MacCoy: I’m not sure what we’ve got for available space cause we will be in this room.
De Weerd: Well then we need to look at an alternate date. Do we get over time. Do
we get any time?
Borup: I have a question for staff. Do we have any idea on the ACHD report?
MacCoy: I don’t think so on this one.
Borup: It’s not in our packet. I did not know if they made a statement that it’s coming. I
assume we’ll probably have it by the next meeting though.
Stiles: Yes. I don’t have anything in my packet as far as a report from ACHD.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 47
Borup: There has been no communication from them? Do you know whether they
have scheduled their meetings with the applicant?
Stiles: I believe they had a tech review with them but I do not have that report. I didn’t
attend that meeting.
Borup: Guess we’ll find out next time.
Stiles: We do want to get their report and to have plenty of time for Brad Watson to
complete his sewer analysis.
De Weerd: So, we probably looking September.
MacCoy: Right. Shari, we have one August 29.
De Weerd: If you have a date in mind, will you please state it.
MacCoy: I am trying to get that down right now.
De Weerd: I met for Shari. They are going no---yes.
MacCoy: I know but I am trying because one of the things she and I discussed is you
know she asked what do I think of this date—well we’ve got everybody here that we
should be able to talk to so we ought do it. The 29th
of this month of have a meeting at
6 o’clock in this room. The 10th
, which is a Tuesday night we have a meeting here at
7:00 PM, which is our typical time for us. Then on the 25th
we’ve got a meeting at 6
o’clock –that is two each month. Now Shari, is there any way we could horse shoe
something else into this time period—we are at the first part of July. I hate to think we
go clear into September. I know we are booking things all ready. In fact we are booking
things up to October right now, I see.
Stiles: Without a schedule from the City Clerk to know when this facility is even
available – I wouldn’t—
MacCoy: I thought you might had had something because I don’t –it’s too bad Angel
left. I go to her and Brittany when she was here to get it because you told me that’s
where it was.
Berg: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I have a very busy schedule with the
City Council dealing with budget issues. It seems to be every night this next two
months are going to be pretty busy.
MacCoy: It that right? We’re really boxed in other words.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 48
Berg: We are pretty boxed. The thing we tried to hold off is for the public to have
interest in other issues that they don’t have to pick and choose if they go to a P&Z
meeting or City Council meeting. Some of these things can be related. The other thing
is also, staff time to prepare all this meeting---
MacCoy: I realize that and that’s the reason we are talking to Shari and staff—you
know what fits in their category too. We’ve got the same thing with all the
Commissioners too. Trying to get the time to do it. It’s summertime. So Shari, do you
think we are talking about September?
Borup: How full is the schedule on the 25th
? You said 8 items, but—
Stiles: Probably 8, 9 possibly 10.
MacCoy: All ready cause we are moving things over.
Stiles: Are you all free from 3am to 8 am?
MacCoy: No.
Borup: Probably depends on how heavy those 10 items are.
MacCoy: Well that’s always the way, isn’t it?
Borup: Yeah.
MacCoy: It’s like to night. We’re—we had 17, 18 items tonight coming up and we are
going to get out of here lucky—but all we’ve done is back log to the future. I guess we
can’t figure a date yet, so let’s move on.
De Weerd: We need to.
MacCoy; I was hoping that they’ll think about it while we’ll continue doing some of this
Because—
De Weerd: Thinking while we talk, okay?
MacCoy: Where did we leave off here. We’ve got public hearing, Item 11 and its an
annexation and zoning and it will be continued. We have heard from the public.
Commissioner’s is there a motion to continue this and move on.
De Weerd: I would make a motion to continue if I had a date to continue it to.
MacCoy: I can’t help you.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 49
De Weerd: Okay then I will move to continue this public hearing for annexation and
zoning for Sundance Village to August 25th
.
MacCoy: Shari, did I hear anything from you?
Stiles: It really doesn’t matter to us whether it’s the 10th
or the 25th
. We will be here.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MacCoy: So that’s August 25th
.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: Last time it started at 6:00 in the room here.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: Oh, we’ve had them before out in the street before. All right, picking up now,
all in favor? Did I ask that question yet? Okay we’re moving on to item 12.
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR 300 UNITS
OF MULTI-FAMILY RENTALS FOR PROPOSED SUNDANCE VILLAGE—BY
SUNDANCE, LLC—NORTH OF OVERLAND ROAD & WEST OF LOCUST GROVE
ROAD.
MacCoy: Shari, do you want to make a statement now about what you’ve already
made about.
Stiles: We would like to incorporate our comments from the previous public hearing into
this public hearing.
MacCoy: Okay. Since we have not spokesman from Sundance, that takes care of that.
The public which has spoken here just—or earlier from number 11—anybody here want
to come up and again say –put your statement on record for Item 12 too. Also. If not it
carried anyway. If not, then going back to the Commissioner’s.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman I move that we continue the public hearing for request for
condition use permit for Sundance Village to August 25th
.
Borup: Second.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 50
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
ITEM 13. PUBLIC HEARING REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF
150.79 ACRES OF LAND (FOR R-4 ZONING) FOR PROPOSED BEAR CREEK
SUBDIVISION—BY BEAR CREEK, LLC—EAST OF STODDARD ROAD AND SOUTH
OF OVERLAND.
MacCoy: Item 13 is another one of these series, 13, 14 is continued. We will have a
public hearing, it open now.
MacCoy: Shari? Where is she? Put the cat out too, would you.
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner’s. Of the three projects we’ve requested you
continue, this is probably the most severely restricted because of the sewer impact.
This is Meridian Road. Lotridge owns this, I believe. This has been rezoned to a CG.
We have (inaudible) subdivision here. Country Corner here. I believe this is Roho
Enterprises, the salvage yard or whatever. This property is approximately 160 acres
and would extend all the way from this point down Stoddard. Boon Docks would be
over in this area. Boon Docks and Roaring Springs Water Park. Extend all the way
from here down to Victory Road. They have met with the City Engineer, Gary Smith, on
several occasions. Each time they’ve come in, Gary has said no. They preceded to
submit this application proposing that they would have a lift station that would pump
back into another drainage area—not the drainage area this property is intended to go
in to. It would go down this – feed into this trunk sewer here and the preliminary
calculations that were done by Brad Watson, of the Public Works Department, are-it
would severely surcharge that line—meaning that there would be no capacity available
for any further development that was intended to go into this sewer line. As part of the
carrot that they are offering, they are proposing an 18 acre park to be donated to the
City to be developed as far as irrigation and seating for a Park area. It would be a
public park and I believe also that they’ve made a commitment that they would as the
building permits came in, those building permits would be charged an additional sewer
interceptor impact fee to go into future extension of the Ten Mile Creek—OH Black Cat
trunk. The Black Cat trunk is proposed to actually go—go along the harden drain
through here, Bruce? It seemed like it was coming across this corner somehow, the
future interceptor. For those reason, staff recommended not only to continue it. I
believe the Public Works Director stands his no. One thing that will happen if this is
approved and if this is allowed to go into this area, we will have requested the entire
mile on the west side of Stoddard that will also want to develop now. If you have any
questions.
MacCoy: I think you hit it pretty well. All right. Thank you Shari. Is the applicant
representative here tonight? I already told you it was to be continued so I guess they
went home too. It is a public hearing and anyone here that is in favor of this would they
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 51
come forward and speak in that behalf. Not in that frame of mind, anybody that would
like to speak on the opposition of this thing come forward and speak. Go ahead.
Yerrington: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission my name is Tris Yerrington. I
reside at 2150 W. Victory Road, which is approximately ¾ of a mile west of this project.
My main objection to this project is with the change of the zoning and the density that it
creates. The property is as I am sure you report shows, is currently zoned RT, which
allows one dwelling per 5 acres. This is –this proposed subdivision would increase the
density by somewhere between 10 to 15 times the current allowed density and
definitely change the whole character of the area out there and do away with the
wisdom of the previous zoning which was to create a buffer zone between the dense
development on the north side of the freeway and the agricultural areas out on the
south side. So that is my main opposition. I am also opposed to it because of
increased traffic concerns and apparently because of the sewer problems it would
create.
MacCoy: Any questions for him? No. Thank you very much. Any one else would like
to come and make forward a statement here.
Yerrington: My name is Kent Yerrington. I live at 8830 Morning Mist in Boise. I have a
piece of property though right off of Pebble Lane Estates. My main concern is also the
amount of density also if this is going to be continued, I think it should be continued
when we have some information on the sewer and what Ada County is proposing for
Stoddard since all the exits are going to be on Stoddard and even on to Overland Road,
with increased traffic on Roaring Springs and in that area.
MacCoy: Very good. Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, Commissioner’s how
about a statement on continuing this.
Borup: I have a question for Bruce, I think. Mr. Chairman, what information do we have
on the Black Cat trunk line. It sounds like (inaudible) this area was designed to be to
drain through a Black Cat trunk line. They were talking about temporary---going
through the (inaudible) sewer line. Was that talking on a permanent basis or a
temporary basis.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Borup, the proposal is a temporary fix pump
into the Elkrun. It would eventually gravity into the Black Cat truck.
Borup. So they’d be doing double lines in some areas then, running opposite directions
then.
Freckleton: Well, the way that they has it all laid out, they had the sewer all draining
down to I believe it was down toward the southwest corner of the park area there, which
is show. Which is about where the trunk line will be coming through. At this point and
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 52
time, the trunk line is clear up, well it serves Ashford Greens, it serves Turnberry
Subdivision
Borup: Ten mile to us. Black Cat does.
Freckleton: Correct and that I believe is where it is stopped right now is right there at
Turnberry is all the farther south it runs on Black Cat. The line that is in Black Cat right
now is a temporary 12 inch line. It’s not even the permanent truck line. As you may be
aware, on that trunk line, that is one that is required to have a permanent regional lift
station that is somewhere off in the future as well.
Borup: So at this point there’s no design dates or construction dates or anything?
Freckleton: No.
Borup: But there’s some rumors on that, that (Inaudible)
Freckleton: We don’t deal in rumors.
Borup: That’s the rumor. Starts tomorrow. My question is what I’m wondering how far
in the future are we talking for that truck line? I mean is this –
Freckleton: That’s one of those crystal ball questions. I don’t know.
MacCoy: I just heard today from a meeting I was in that it’s in the millions of dollars
we’re talking about to get this stuff put into operation. Where is the money coming
from?
Freckleton: I believe just the lift station alone is a million plus for that regional lift
station. Then you have that trunk line. It’s probably 36 or 42 inch pipe coming down
Black Cat Road. It’s very expensive.
Borup: So the temporary pumping could run into several years.
MacCoy: Anything else?
Borup: No, I guess the rest of the detail can come out in the computer model.
De Weerd: Well I’m concerned too about ACHD. Why haven’t we got that on this one
as well as Sundance Village? Do they operate to the beat of a different drum? How
can we consider this without traffic impacts?
MacCoy: We can’t. That’s a fact. We don’t get ACHD, we don’t complete our work.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 53
De Weerd: Do you have any clue? Are they going to look at this before – I would like
them to look at this before we have it on our agenda again.
MacCoy: There seems to be a lot of unknowns here.
Stiles: The original date that I had was that the Commission was to meet on this on
July 7th
, but I have no final report from them.
De Weerd: I could assume that we could do this, continue it until the 25th
and – what?
Stiles: We certainly could.
De Weerd: Okay, well then without postponing this any longer or prolonging it, I will
move that we continue the public hearing for annexation and zoning for Bear Creek
Subdivision until August 25th
.
Barbeiro: Second the motion.
MacCoy: Any discussion? If not, all in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
14. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT OF PROPOSED
BEAR CREEK SUBDIVISION—BY BEAR CREEK, LLC--CONSISTING OF 326
SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING LOTS—EAST OF STODDARD ROAD & SOUTH
OF OVERLAND.
MacCoy: Shari, staff comments? Anything you want to add or reiterate on this one?
Stiles: Please incorporate our comments from the previous public hearing into this
public hearing.
MacCoy: Okay, again no applicant is here. Anybody who wants to make any other
statement either pro or con, which there is only five of you in the room right now.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move to continue the public hearing for the preliminary plat
for Bear Creek Subdivision to August 25th
.
Barbeiro: Second the motion.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 54
15. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT OF PROPOSED
SALMON RAPIDS NO. 5—BY FARWEST, LLC--CONSISTING OF 22 BUILDING
LOTS ON 6.55 ACRES—NORTH OF VICTORY & WEST OF LOCUST GROVE
ROAD.
MacCoy: That was to be continued to August 10th
. That date is still good. I don’t know.
It is a public hearing, anybody here?
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: Salmon Rapids? Just a minute before we get to you then. Shari, would you
do your piece? (inaudible)
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I think if there’s any activity going on out there,
it’s wishful thinking on the part of the developer. I don’t know what exactly they are
doing. This is the area that they’re proposing to develop – do you all have the memo
from Gary Smith dated July 9th
?
Borup: Yes.
Stiles: It’s stated he told this developer previously that it cannot be served by public
sewer until well you can’t see it on this map, but sewer is currently stopped on the
eastern boundary of Meridian Greens. It has to be extended somehow through this
property or somehow extended. We don’t know which direction it’s going to take to
serve this area. What the Public Works Department determined when they were
looking at their plans was that they proposed to put six feet of fill in this location just to
sewer it back to the other drainage area. They were proposing to put this six feet of fill
and then have daylight basements. But Gary’s comments – we’re basically asking that
you just deny this preliminary plat straight up without having to put it on another
agenda. We don’t need – well I don’t feel that we need a presentation from the
applicant’s representative or the applicant. Bruce Freckleton has something to add.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, the applicant’s representative
spoke to me earlier tonight. After getting Gary’s latest memo, they basically have a
couple of options available to them. One is they construct the Ten Mile trunk line, they
make it happen, which it’s a long ways off, but that’s an option that’s open to them.
Their other option is to totally withdraw and wait for someone else to bring it to them.
So they got the memo fairly late. They didn’t really have time to digest it a whole lot yet,
so that’s why they submitted the letter requesting the tabling is so that they can kind of
group and figure out how they want to proceed.
Borup: So they originally submitted the application based on the earlier comments that
it could go into the Nine Mile Drain? Is that correct?
Freckleton: That’s correct.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 55
Borup: Was that way back a couple of years ago or several years ago or so when they
were doing the earlier phases? Or is that when they were told –
Freckleton: No, when they did the earlier phases it was determined that this corner
would not sewer into the Nine Mile Drain. It had to go to the Ten Mile trunk line. It was
some later discussions that they had with Gary that I think Gary kind of left it up to some
design to see if they could make it work. The only way like Shari said that they can
make it work is to import six to six and a half feet of fill dirt to raise that development up
out of the Ten Mile drainage area and put it back into the Nine Mile drainage area. The
sewer pipe that they have designed in this latest information that they submitted is
actually above the natural grade that sits out there today.
Borup: The sewer line itself is above the natural grade?
Freckleton: And so after Brad’s preliminary analysis of the sewer trunk computer model
and looking at the design with that much fill, it’s just not going to work. It’s going to
have to go back into the Ten Mile trunk as originally designed. That Nine Mile trunk line
is getting overwhelmed fast and so anybody that we bring into that Nine Mile trunk it just
drops somebody else off that’s within the service area of the Nine Mile trunk, it drops
them out of the game. It’s a trade off.
Borup: I question whether they have marketable lots if they’re talking six feet of fill.
Freckleton: Well like Shari said –
Borup: And the cost to do that is –
Freckleton: The proposal I believe those lots that are along the southern boundary was
to do a daylight basement type concept so that they would have 6 feet of fill on those
lots from to rear. I would assume that they would end up with something similar along
the western boundary because there is going to have to be a lot of fill along there too.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: We are still discussing with the staff yet. You’ll get your chance here.
Freckleton: Did I answer your question Commissioner Borup?
Borup: Yes, sure.
MacCoy: All right, since the applicant is not here we will look to the public. It’s a public
hearing and your part of the public, so now you can talk.
McDonald: Greg McDonald by the way and I live right here. I see that he’s got 22 lot’s
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 56
MacCoy: Would you please pick up the mic. It’s up on the stand right there.
McDonald: Does Marty (inaudible) still have this thing? Okay because it was Farwest
or what ever it was. Anyway, I live right here, right there and I counted all the lots and
Ray Lorando counted them and actually there is 24. Now I am sitting there saying, if
there is 24 and he wants to develop 22 lots, apparently he wants to put a pumping
station in. If you wants to put a pumping station in, put it here. Don’t put it here. I live
here. Ray lives here. Gene Schultz lives here. You know, I mean I get a deal
(inaudible) wood duck island and people don’t think they give off fumes. They do. They
also are noisy and they cost money. Mr. McCall, I don’t know if you know who Mr.
McCall is or not, but he’s the attorney the representing Marty Goldsmith, he was, came
up in his fancy little Mercedes and was giving me some guff one day, but they want to
come down here, what they want to do they want to come like this and go down this
creek. It is what they want to do. That is still my creek and I’ve lived there 22 years.
From here to there is very well landscaped. There is a water pool over there. There’s a
bridge there. They’ve cleaned all the rest of the debris I mean all the shrubbery and
everything else out of there, so guess where all the animals live. The raccoons live
here. The coyotes live here. The muskrats live here. The crayfish live here. The fish
live here. Everything lives here and I told McCall that, you know. But I didn’t, I’m not a
–I’ve been (inaudible) for years. Keith knows that. I am not against development at all.
Use a little common sense. If he gets this thing put in, if somebody else hooks up to it,
he can just collect the money down the road, you know. It’s kind of what is amount to. I
told him about 4 or 5 years ago, and a couple other developers came and approached
me and I told them what it would cost them to go across my property. They could come
right here like this and go across my property like that. It wouldn’t be a problem. They
don’t want to spend the money. They want to put a lift station in and other stuff to save
bucks. Well, you know, if they go down that creek, you guys might argue with me a little
bit, but I told McCall I would get environmentalists out there in ten seconds is what I
would do, because I do have animals there. Not that I like the raccoons, by the way,
because I paid a lot of money on my chow chow dog for all the plastic surgery and
everything, but you know the guys have to use a little common sense. He charging X
amount of dollars for lots, he wants a pumping station in, put it up some place else.
Don’t put it down in the corner. I’ve lived there 22 years. Ray has lived there 21 years.
Schultz has lived there 23 years. They did put a little drainage in and it costs Schultz
got $500 for it from Marty Goldsmith. But, you know, the first thing I am going to tell
you, another thing I want to tell you about. He sent me a letter one time. He says,
we’re going to seek a temporary easement to go Ten Mile creek with a sewer line.
Before the letter ended, and you guys probably have a record of this, we’re going to get
a temporary one. You know what I did with that letter? I threw it in the garbage. I
absolutely threw it in the garbage. I don’t know if any of you have driven by my piece of
property, but my suggestion is, and my suggestion only, but I guarantee that everybody
that lives here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here and here and here—make a
public park out of it. I think they need a public park there. If they don’t guess where the
public park is going to be? (Inaudible) got real close to 70 (inaudible). If they
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 57
(inaudible). I can guarantee they would but you know, I mean, I don’t know what you
guys –in planning and zoning want to do, but I am just here to represent myself. When
I bought that piece of property I owned to the middle of the creek. I owned to the
middle of the road. (Inaudible) this piece of property and that’s what was going on there
too. If they went down this side, they would have to take his house out. I don’t know
what you guys really want to do. I don’t want to stop development, don’t get me wrong,
I really don’t. But I told Marty Goldsmith’s attorney, Mr. Call, what it would cost him to
go across my property. He kind of—and I even showed him how he could go across
it—the only thing of it is that he came back to me saying, well we can go down your side
of the creek because Meridian irrigation has an easement. Which they do. They have
a road easement. I have lived there 22 years and they have not driven down my
driveway yet—in 22 years. So I told him the same thing. What it was going to cost him.
Replace the (inaudible) 45 days. That is going down my road like this. (Inaudible). I
don’t know. But, I am here to represent myself. Roy was going to be here but his dad
is really sick tonight and of course with well I don’t want anymore 2 story houses and I
don’t want any yellow houses built there, in that subdivision. There’s a yellow house
that’s sitting about right there. My gosh through my pine trees, I can see it. I said, I
can’t control that Ray.
You know on 2 story houses, but you know I think we need another park to be honest
with you.
De Weerd: Well Tammy there you go. You can work on that one.
McDonald: Well, I hope I gave you guys a fairly good representation here on this thing,
but they’ve been moving dirt over there—a couple weeks ago they started moving dirt.
I thought they’re getting real excited here, but it could be an easy deal, but they want to
make it a difficult deal, I guess it could be a difficult deal, so—I haven’t dealt with Marty
Goldsmith myself, but (inaudible) has 85 acres and I guess they finally sold it. The guy
who bought it was supposed to come and talk to me, but you know but sewer doesn’t
run up hill unless you have a pumping station. I hope I gave you guys a good
presentation.
Freckleton: I wanted to clarify one thing. Their current proposal is gravity. There is no
pump station. That’s why they wanted to fill that entire end of that side up so they could
get a gravity line to go out to the northeast into the existing portion.
McDonald: So where you going to take it—down Mesa Way—northeast or northwest?
Freckleton: Northeast back into Salmon Rapids. They were going to fill that entire
corner enough to get a gravity line to drain out to the north and to the existing street in
Salmon Rapids.
McDonald: Six foot of fill from here to go up here?
Freckleton: There was about 6-1/2 feet where it says site, right there.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 58
McDonald: Yeah, I see where it says site. 6-1/2 feet is not going to do it. I’ll tell you
something about engineers. They better and get out there (inaudible). Wood Duck
Island, when I built houses down there, I watched that (inaudible) canal and all I did was
look at the water level where the gates were and when Hubble and those guys put that
bridge in, I told Sandy Johnson, I said you know, I don’t think that bridge is tall enough.
She said well Hubble engineered it and I says, well I am telling you right now it’s not
going to make it. They turned the water down Ridenbaugh Canal, went over the top of
the bridge and had to redo it. Because (Inaudible) is not going to put the sewer back up
to here. I can guarantee you right now. He won’t do it. There’s no way. Sewage isn’t
going to run uphill unless you know the good Lord makes it run uphill. I mean
(inaudible) over the years. I tried to do my best in building and that is (inaudible) feel
about it. (Inaudible) I built a house right next door to one of the building stations, it
gave out smell. They can say what they want to. It made noise. The kids got in there
and if you read the Statesman a few years ago, they wrote their names on it and
everybody arrested them and all this kind of stuff. It’s just not – I think most of the
people would like to see a park there. I mean that’s my feeling. You know 22 lots, it’s
a lot of money. He’d rather pay the piper. (Inaudible) I can guarantee you. Thank you.
MacCoy: I wish we put you on earlier. –
McDonald: Yeah, it gets boring I’m sure.
MacCoy: -- some time ago.
McDonald: I’m not an architect, I’m not an engineer. But you know I know what works
and what doesn’t work and I know what kind of job you guys got. I also know the Mayor
very well. He lives in one of my houses, and Bob just says it would be disasters if
(inaudible).
MacCoy: Commissioners, what’s your mind here?
McDonald: (Inaudible – off the microphone)
MacCoy: We’re here many nights.
McDonald: Have you guys been out there? Have you been out by my place?
De Weerd: We can’t do that.
McDonald: Why?
MacCoy: Law says we can’t do that.
McDonald: I’m just saying drive by, the IRS did. Thank you.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 59
MacCoy: Good night. Commissioners, what’s your mind here?
Borup: I don’t know if there’s a lot of choice. I still have a question on this plat.
MacCoy: Well you can continue the public hearing which will –
Borup: No, I need an answer tonight.
MacCoy: All right, I don’t disagree with you, but that’s what you’ve got to –
Borup: This shows the sewer line drain through that southwest corner the way I read
the arrows. But I didn’t think there was a – is that what this is indicating draining this
way and draining this way?
(Inaudible)
Borup: The arrows are wrong. Okay. Well that’s what I understood by reading
everything, just that didn’t jive with the rest of the paperwork. What’s this down here?
Freckleton: A storm drainage retention.
Borup: Oh, that’s what all that is, okay.
(Inaudible)
Borup: Oh, this isn’t the sewer plat I was talking about. That’s the storm drain right
there. Okay, that is sewer.
Freckleton: The reason the number of lots don’t jive is because that’s the storm drain
lot, it’s common area.
Borup: The whole lot there is.
MacCoy: All right, Shari. Where are you? You made a comment earlier about the fact
that we should be able to – I don’t know where this letter came from. It says August
10th
. Is that something that you and he worked out? Are you going to continue this?
Stiles: That was probably a request from Marty Goldsmith’s secretary.
MacCoy: So there’s no agreement here. It’s just a request.
Stiles: Right.
MacCoy: Okay, so we could deny it.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 60
Stiles: Gary said that this was about coming out of the ground now as it was, isn’t it?
Minimum cover on that sewer?
(Inaudible)
Stiles: And from the contours on the plat, the preliminary plat they submitted, from this
point down to here it drops over 12 feet.
Borup: I couldn’t see any –
Stiles: This is the high point of the whole subdivision and it drops, it really drops down
there.
(Inaudible)
Stiles: That’s why they wanted six and a half feet of fill. But that is still not going to
work. If they are daylighted with the sewer right now, and they’ve got 12 –
(Inaudible)
Freckleton: The other street up there Redside Way, the sewer is a little deeper up
there. Up here. This is where they plan on bringing the drainage out to existing
(inaudible) right here.
Stiles: That’s how deep?
Freckleton: Maybe six feet.
Stiles: And three foot is minimum.
Freckleton: Yeah, by the time it back up to here, (inaudible).
De Weerd: Well just to end the torture here, I would just say let’s close the public
hearing.
MacCoy: I didn’t hear anything else.
Borup: Well she wants to close the public hearing she said.
De Weerd: I would move to close it.
Borup: We haven’t even had a presentation from the applicant.
De Weerd: Well I would move to deny this. Why have a – Mr. Attorney –
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 61
Aylsworth: If I might interject, I know it probably seems absurd, but thus far tonight you
have been consistent when the applicant hasn’t shown up that you continued their
application and just as a practical concern about what was revealed by the witness I
think as a matter of process, it might be best to extend the same courtesy to this
applicant also, because if you don’t odds are it might end up with some kind of litigation
or the person might just come back and refile the application. It might be best just to let
them have their say and then make whatever decision you want to make after you’ve
heard from them.
De Weerd: Then I would withdraw that. I would move that we continue that public
hearing.
Barbeiro: Second the motion.
MacCoy: August 10th
that was listed and that’s going to go? Thanks a lot.
Borup: Can we –
MacCoy: We haven’t voted. You have discussion time.
Borup: I’m just trying to cut some time here. Is there even any sense doing anything
until they get the sewer problem worked out Public Works Department. Can we
postpone it until such time and then have them ask for a new date? Can we just – I
guess that would just handle it. If we just table it until such time as the applicant works
out the sewer drainage with the Public Works Department. That way we don’t even
have to have it on the agenda until it gets worked out.
De Weerd: That sounds excellent. I will withdraw my motion.
MacCoy: Okay.
Berg: Well except for parliamentary procedure usually has a date certain so it never
gets lost in the shuffle of not being put back on.
Borup: On tabling it?
Berg: Yes.
De Weerd: We can’t table indefinitely?
Borup: Can we table it to September, October and staff comes in and gets something
worked out –
(Inaudible)
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 62
Borup: And maybe we’ve already spent more time on it than would probably be on the
agenda, but –
De Weerd: Which seems to be tradition.
Borup: Well we’ve got a short meeting tonight. Why don’t we do it tonight because
we’re not going to have much time next time.
MacCoy: What do you want to do then? Do you want to table this to a certain date or
do you want to continue the public hearing?
De Weerd: We have to continue the public hearing wouldn’t we since the applicant
hasn’t presented? Okay, then I will – since I already said I withdraw my motion, I will re-
enter my motion to continue to September 14th
.
MacCoy: What’s that date?
De Weerd: Yeah, that’s our regular meeting. I’m not calling any special dates.
MacCoy: Okay, continue to September 14th
.
Borup: I assume the applicant is going to be in contact with staff on this issue?
Barbeiro: I second the motion.
MacCoy: Okay we got a second the motion. We have a continuation to September
14th
. Any discussion? All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
******************************************************
ITEM 17: DISCUSSION/VOTING OF CHAIRMAN—PLANNING AND ZONING
COMMISSION ONE TERM ANNUAL VOTE:
MacCoy: First place I was sorry to lose Byron and I tried not to have it happen. You
have a letter in your file that we all received today. He’s got the wrong slant,
unfortunately. I am the perpetrator’s messenger that got shot is what happened on this
case. Mayor the Council had their discussion with the attorney’s and they would have
had this thing settled a week ago, and they failed to do so and so in the aftermath of
what they didn’t do, they then came and said—the Mayor came and called me in and
said that I should do that thing. I have no—I checked with Gigray before I did it, and he
said you have no jurisdiction and you’ve got to do what the Mayor tells you to do. So I
said, okay. So I went and said do I have any option and the Mayor said no. You do
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 63
this, so I did that. I told Byron that you know he really hung himself out there,
unfortunately. This is not the first time and they have already noted all that stuff. He
asked what do the rest of the people thought of it and I said, well, he asked me the
question, were any of you disturbed by what he had to say. I said yes. I said that is not
the conduct of a Commissioner. He said that he apologized to me over that and –but I
did not expect him to do this. I thought we were going to go into a discussion and I had
the hopes that no other assurance that the Mayor and the Council were going to settle
the situation. But it was out of our hands. It was already been determined.
Borup: What was it the Mayor asked you to do?
MacCoy: Tell him to miss tonight’s meeting based on—
Borup: The whole meeting? Why would missing the whole meeting be necessary?
MacCoy: Well, he was worried about Cobblestone.
Borup: Can’t he just refrain from commenting on that one application?
MacCoy: I’ll get to that.
De Weerd: Well Cobblestone wanted a continuance.
MacCoy: Well, at the time we went into this thing I did not have all of his paperwork and
we had another group coming in, which was the one on the freeway, off of Overland.
They afraid that he—the fellow off of that said that it would be low to middle income on
that group.
Borup: Who said that?
De Weerd: The one on the freeway?
MacCoy: The one on the freeway, yeah.
Borup: With the swimming pool and—
De Weerd: The tot lots and—
MacCoy: This is what I am telling you what the Mayor says to me, okay. I said to Byron
there is another one—I did not even identify it—I said I am told that there is another one
that the Mayor believes—and Byron told me, he says well that’s what I believe, I’ll say it
again. I said, no. Your not listening to what I am saying. You know, you were off base,
I said you broke Federal Law and State Law and we are in trouble for that all ready with
the fellow Peterson, went to the Mayor with an attorney and was going to sue us for
what was said. So there was –what I a finding out now, after the fact, it was a game
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 64
plan put together. They –the Mayor listened to the tape from our meeting. The Council
supposedly—I don’t know if all of there were there or not, but he said he and the
Council listened to it. The way that thing finished, Cobblestone, 2 for and 2 against, the
Mayor made the decision. That was an arrangement so the Mayor come off looking
good and I am unhappy with the situation. I told him so. I was pretty well burned. I
know Bob as a friend, but I said this is, you know, it speaks to me as politics and
everything else, but he wanted to have a clean slate for him when he went back to
Washington, D.C. and they had to work with Valley News and Idaho Press to not
emphasize what happened that night at our meeting. I just said I am not going to get
into discussion with you on that. All right, that is water over the dam now. We can’t do
anything about it.
De Weerd: Well it is, but you know we all make our mistakes. We all say probably, I
am sure I said something inappropriate. Especially when I thought those loading docks
where those trucks are loading docks.
MacCoy: That’s a little different then what you did.
De Weerd: But, you know that’s why we have an attorney sitting up here.
MacCoy: That’s right. And Eric agreed with—it took Eric and Gigray and—
De Weerd: But I suggest we deny his resignation. I think it was written in the heat of
passion and that – give him time to think about it and, you know, I just think that this
was written emotionally and that we should give him time to think about it. If that is
even an option for us.
MacCoy: I just asked Bob Corrie today why he called me in for a meeting today and I
said what if—I didn’t even have the letter. He gave me the letter. Told me that he had
talked to Byron. I said what’s our options. He said there is no options. He said, I
accepted his resignation.
Borup: He already accepted it?
MacCoy: Yeah.
De Weerd: Well it has to be confirmed by City Council, doesn’t it---Counsel??
Aylsworth: I’m not sure.
MacCoy: Well, anyway.
De Weerd: Well I would like it on record that I think that, I personally will refuse his
resignation because I think it was written at an emotional time and I would like to give
him a cooling off period to re-think his resignation.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 65
MacCoy: Okay. I can tell that to the Mayor.
De Weerd: I would even make a motion to the fact, if I needed to do so.
Barbeiro: We have the option of a resolution of opinion—I am trying to remember how it
is worded.
Aylsworth: I really don’t know.
De Weerd: I think that sounds good. Resolution of opinion.
MacCoy: Well the problem with all this is that I was told by Gigray and the Mayor and
they had had the meeting with the Council and they say we don’t have any power. We
are appointed by the Council and the Mayor and we are told what to do.
De Weerd: Oh Mr. Chairman, I understand we have no power. I just think that it is
important to note that that is an opinion and that I think that is resignation was done out
of emotion and so therefore it should be reconsidered.
MacCoy: I think on of the things about this, and I have worked with Smith before on
this. This is his 3rd
or his 4th
—maybe this is his 4th
time, but I think he sees the
handwriting on the wall that it’s going to happen. There was to be a meeting –he
doesn’t know about it –that would be the Mayor and the Council and I think he figured
that was going to be the curtains. He wanted to do the first thing before they had a
chance to do anything. I think it was coming down the pipe was the fact that they were
going to ask for resignation.
De Weerd: Well, I have stated my---
MacCoy: I hear what your saying. I tried to—you know—I said he is a good man, he
got this, that—they said you’ve had your say, we’ve listened to you before and Byron
you just screwed me up.
Barbeiro: With regards to Item 17 then.
MacCoy: Okay, I am going to go into that right now.
Borup: Just maybe say that the ordinance doesn’t seem to address resignation’s at all,
either way.
MacCoy: You mean our City Ordinance?
Borup: Yeah. Our City Ordinance.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 66
MacCoy: Anyway, let me take the part of what 17 is about. Bob Corrie read this and he
said that—he went and got the book and he says he was going to talk to Gigray. I said,
well, I mentioned the meeting that we had with Gigray. I said that –I can’t remember if
Bob was in that meeting or not, but we had the Council and us there at that meeting
and we weren’t planning to have another 16 years like Johnson went through, for what
ever reason. Then he brought up the fact that in November—is the election in
November?
He said that that’s in November. You might want to push this to November, because
who even gets—if you elect a new chair or even the existing chair repeats, if that’s
within our whelm, he says the new Mayor, or even he will be appointing a new chair for
the P&Z anyway.
Borup: No.
De Weerd: No, no, no. I think the chairman is the business of the P&Z not the
business of the Council.
MacCoy: Well, what I find out is I said that same argument and he says, if the Mayor
and Council does not approve of the person you elect, he says, we say denied and you
have to go back and reelect someone else. He says that’s how we control it. I said I
didn’t know that.
Borup: Where does it say that in the Ordinance?
MacCoy; I don’t know. I don’t have the books.
Borup: I do have the book.
MacCoy: Well, I don’t have Gigray with me.
Borup: It says right here the Commission shall elect a chairman.
MacCoy: I know that’s what it says and that’s what –he had the book also, but he just
told me—
Borup: It says members may be removed for cause by majority voice of the Council.
That’s how they get somebody off. Either your term expired or your removed by for
cause. And the Chairman is elected by this Council.
MacCoy: Okay. If a Council—
Borup: Unless there is an amendment to this ordinance.
MacCoy: I doubt it.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 67
Borup: They don’t have anything to say about who we (inaudible) or how long or
anything else.
MacCoy: He’s going to do something. I don’t know what, but I said what I think we
should do is—now we have a opening we’re going to have to fill the opening before we
can take a vote anyway, so we’ll play the game under that until we fill the chair, either
Byron is restated or we get somebody else. We can’t do it with, I don’t feel, with a chair
missing, to do the election. That is going to have to happen within a month. So it’s not
going to go very far down the road.
Borup: I thinks that’s already been expressed, that we need—should have a full
Commission.
MacCoy: Yeah. Okay. Any other comments. I just wanted to convey to you what has
happened in the last couple of days.
Borup: I guess I am concerned about the Mayor’s comment on re-appointing
everybody at election time.
MacCoy: I don’t know. I’ve never gone through that before. You look at Johnson’s
term—that did not happen before, but what’s happened since Corrie’s in there is a lot of
changes since he came in. There is going to be more before very long. Gigray’s going
to do a lot more things. He gave me two more documents to read that Gigray’s put into
a draft form, one of which concerns us very deeply in the standpoint more work for –is
coming—will be dumped on us because they don’t think it the Council--. Another one is
a proposal, and I also raised a question on the sign ordinance. Gigray’s written a draft
for that. He gave me a copy of that.
Borup: He’s written a draft?
MacCoy: Well, it’s a draft. It’s only 2 pages. I’ve told Bob for some many months that
I’ve told Gigray about what we’ve done. So they are aware what we’re doing. I don’t
like---what’s the matter Tammy, you lose it?
Borup: I think she was looking at Tom.
De Weerd: I agree with Tom. I would move to adjourn.
MacCoy: Well I would too, but I am just trying to explain to you that on the—I don’t get
a chance to talk to all of you at one time. Some place along the end of this month
we’ve got to do the sign situation and get that into a draft form.
De Weerd: That was a bit of business on July 29th
. It’s not going to happen?
Stiles: We’re not going to have a ordinance by July 29th
.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 68
De Weerd: No. We work on a draft.
Stiles: Oh, was that on this special agenda? Comp Plan amendments and the sign
ordinance?
Borup: Oh that’s right.
De Weerd: That was to convene after the adjournment of the public meeting as a
workshop.
Stiles: I didn’t know how much I’m going to have done by then with—I’ve got to have
committees ready for Comp Plan amendment by the end of July.
Borup: I don’t think we’re planning on doing the whole thing.
De Weerd: No, just to start. We have to start on this.
MacCoy: We’ve got to get something going on this thing.
De Weerd: Just to start pushing it, you know.
Stiles: But as far as Gigray having any type of sign ordinance in two pages, no he does
not have a sign ordinance.
MacCoy: No we haven’t got---a draft from him and pages that-- The point I am making
here I want to make to you is that the Council is out of someplace, decided they want to
take over recommending signs and I said no way. They have no concept and I know
this for a fact because I have talked to the Council members on this. I said, what do
you know about sign? We are trying to live by these things for our major corridors and
everything else. Keith, your point was, if a person comes in with a business and he
wants to put a sign up, he says fine, I don’t care. Let him put his business sign up. I
said well if it’s the wrong size, he says it’s his business.
Borup: Well then why we (inaudible).
MacCoy: That’s the point. There you got it, you know. And why we’re (inaudible) I told
Bob I don’t want to relinquish that and If we do end up with that, I want to sit down
session with this Commission and the Council on that subject matter. I don’t think it’s
right.
De Weerd: Well, I guess before I move to adjourn, I would say that perhaps we can put
this again on our agenda for the July 29th
meeting to discuss/voting of chairman and
that we know by then, perhaps, what Byron has decided.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 69
MacCoy: I think that’s what your going to do. Just move it up to the next station, next
pace. I agree with what your saying.
De Weerd: Oh, ok.
MacCoy: Just move it forward to the time, and that’s going to be dependent on if we
refill—whatever happens.
De Weerd: Well, I would like to see this as an agenda item.
MacCoy: I’m not saying taking it off. I’m just saying, here’s what happened. It’s not a
good time to do it tonight.
De Weerd: So I would move to table that until July 29th
.
Borup: I’d second that.
MacCoy: Okay. All in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Borup: Is there a way to request some information on –we’ve continued the
Cobblestone to the 25th
. Can we ask ACHD for a traffic count on Franklin?
Stiles: I though they came up with some counts, but people were saying they were
invalid, due to the fact that school is not in session.
MacCoy: Well they said that, but also is was not done by them. JUB did it?
Borup: He did a traffic count? We need to review that. Right now Franklin Road traffic
count is way off because of the “Y”. It’s about 43%.
Stiles: Oh yeah. Not much is going on Franklin Road cause it’s closed.
Borup: Not right now, yeah. I tried going down there today—closed. I mean, I think
some of the traffic problem may be due to the diverted traffic off the Flying Y, so there is
going to be problem there for another year.
MacCoy: Another 3 years. We are increasing, according to ACHD, on Franklin with
each passing month, 5 to 7 per cent increase, with each month. That’s their figures.
De Weerd: I move we adjourn.
MacCoy: Okay. Do I hear a second?
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
July 13, 1999
Page 70
Barbeiro: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES