1999 02-09MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
The regular scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
was called to order 7:05 P.M. by Malcolm MacCoy.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Malcolm MacCoy, Tammy De Weerd, Keith Borup, Mark
Nelson.
OTHERS PRESENT: Shari Stiles, Bruce Freckleton, Eric Rossman, Brad
Hawkins-Clark, Steve Siddoway , Will Berg.
MacCoy: Welcome Troop 151 from our area. They are here to look to see how
our city runs. They are part of a citizenship merit badge they are working on
right now. I’m glad to have you young men here. I’m going to ask the city clerk
to run the roll call for us.
Berg: All present except for Mr. Smith, we do have a quorum.
MacCoy: Thank you. I want to start off with the approval of the minutes from our
last meeting. They have all been read I’m sure by you people. Have you got
any comments, changes?
De Weerd: I have none.
Borup: I have none.
Nelson: I have none.
MacCoy: Got a motion?
Nelson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that we approve the minutes for
January’s P & Z meeting.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: I would like to do as I’ve been doing in past weeks or months recent
and we’ve had a number of changes in both our City Council and in our Planning
and Zoning meetings by virtue of our attorneys. Getting us into line to a lot of
new things that we haven’t been doing in the past. This evening I want to run
through a couple of things that you can witness as we go through this,
understand where we are going with it. Start off, every one of our agenda items,
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 2
I will then turn to staff and they will have a chance to then say what they believe
that we should be looking at, so that you all hear the same thing that we hear.
Nothing behind the counter or behind the doors, it’s all out in the open. After we
have gone through that, I will then open up for a public meeting. We have a
number of public meetings tonight to take care of, in fact our agenda is full. As a
result, some of these can go on at great length and we don’t care to have that
happen to us. I have a set situation where we would like to be out of here by
10:30, 11:00 at the most. We have a break around 9:00ish. We’ll see where we
stand on the agenda and we will make an announcement at that time as to what
the rest of the evening will entail. You as well as us have a hard time after the
10:30 time because this thing gets pretty heavy and you’ve got to make good
decisions. We want to make good decisions for our city, so we ask that you work
with us. When we come up to your part of the agenda and we announce what
that is, I’ll call for the applicant to come forward and make his pitch, then we ask
that he has only 15 minutes to do that, if he feels that is not enough, at the very
beginning he should ask us what he has to tell us and can he have some more
time and we will decide up here if that is a possible situation. I would really
stress that you try to keep it to 15 minutes. I will then call, by the way after that
you stand there while the commissioners have a chance to ask you any
questions about what they want to understand what you said, clarification and
what have you. Then we will let you go back to your seat. Anybody who is in
favor for the applicant at that time will then have a chance to speak. I ask that
those people maintain if they can very closely to three minutes as speaking time.
You can see with the crowd that we have tonight, we could be here the rest of
the night on a couple of items. We ask that also when you come up to speak in
favor or on the other side of the fence, that you do keep it brief, in the standpoint
that if it’s something new that we haven’t heard either from the applicant or
somebody else that has already been up. It’s on the record, it’s recorded up
here and this gets put into print and you have the option of coming back here at
a later date and getting a copy of all this tonight, so it’s not something that is lost
forever. So we ask that you keep pertinent as to what you are doing with this.
The commission as we review all this material, I should say also the other half is
the persons who have, reasons to have to make a negative view point of what
we are asking for has the same procedure as the applicant does. Whoever that
spokesperson is who wants to get up here has a 15 minute option and there after
has three minutes and we are planning to control that as best we can tonight. As
you look at what we do, asking questions back and forth of our staff over here
and they come back to us, we try to sort out so that we do a fine job for you the
people. I would like to and I use this many times to view us as the lady with the
blindfold that holds scales in her hand. We try to do the job so that we work with
the city and work with the people and try to make it an equal level out of it. It’s
difficult at times. I’ll say this for it, I appreciate—you may think this is funny for
me to say this, the number of people that we have for this evening because then
we feel that we hear from the community. The tough nights for us is when we get
here and we have a dozen people in here and we have to make the decisions
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 3
and we hope that we are making them the right way. So, I appreciate that
everybody is here tonight. As we go through this, we have a position that we can
take on several different things. This is all done by law. We can continue the
hearing if we feel that we come to a place we need more information, that’s what
we call tabling it. We can approve it, at that time we give the work to the attorney
who gets passed on to our City Council to review. We can modify it, which you
will hear a lot of discussion because after you have had your chance to talk we
close the public hearing and then we have the chance to talk in front of you but
among ourselves here as to how we understand and how we want to rule. So
we have that time so we can make some modifications as we see fit. This is all
put in print or we can deny it. When you have a denial what we do, we do the
same thing, it goes to the attorney and the attorney writes the material up and it
goes to the council. The council makes the second decision. So there is a very
democratic way of doing business here. I think that is all I’m going to say about
all that. I have some other thoughts, but I’ll come up with those later. The first
part of the evening we have item no. 1.
ITEM NO. 1: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW: REQUEST
FOR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT BY PINNACLE ENGINEERING
– EAGLE ROAD CORRIDOR:
MacCoy: Commissioners, what do you have in mind here?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
determines that upon review of the applicable standards, goals, policies setforth
in the Comprehensive Plan of the City of Meridian, the established record and
the applicable law, that amendment of the Comprehensive Plan is not warranted
in the instant case. Given the forgoing, the subject application for a plan
amendment should be denied. Absent a timely appeal, the forgoing decision and
recommendation of denial will not be forwarded to the governing body City
Council of the City of Meridian.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: Okay we are going to go roll call.
ROLL CALL: Commissioner Borup-aye, Commissioner De Weerd-aye,
Commissioner Smith-absent, Commissioner Nelson-aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of
Meridian hereby adopts and approves this Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law and decisions and recommendation.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 4
Nelson: Second that.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: You want to do a second time? All right, we will do it a second time.
All right we are going to do a second roll call the way this thing is written now.
ROLL CALL: Commissioner Borup-aye, Commissioner De Weerd-aye,
Commissioner Smith-absent, Commissioner Nelson-aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO. 2: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING
OF 10.02 ACRES FOR PROPOSED YUKON SUBDIVISION BY JAMES AND
KAREN HOLLISTER—EAST SIDE OF LOCUST GROVE RD, BETWEEN
USTICK AND MCMILLAN RD, JUST NORTH OF SUMMERFIELD SUB:
MacCoy: Staff what do you have?
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, this application for 10.02 acres it’s a
little misleading, it talks about the Yukon Subdivision, this is not actually a
subdivision, it will be for the annexation and zoning of this parcel and it’s entirety
and at this time no subdivision is proposed. The applicant is aware that the
frontage that they have proposed on Locust Grove Road would not allow for a
further subdivision without some kind of variance from the City Council. This
property that is directly north of Summerfield Subdivision has been requested at
this time because of the school districts application, which public hearing follows
this public hearing. Staff has made the comments in our memo dated February
5, 1999. One additional item, I would like to add as a condition is that the private
road that is proposed back to the existing home also have some buffering with a
planting strip for the adjacent residential subdivision so that private road does not
directly abut the existing homes there.
MacCoy: Bruce, anything?
Freckleton: Commissioner MacCoy, members of the commission, I have nothing
further.
MacCoy: All right, with that we’ll open the public hearing, will the applicant come
forward on the positive side please?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
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STILLMAN M. ANDERSON, 1735 FEDERAL WAY.
Anderson: We are representing the Hollisters, the firm of Leatham & Krohn. The
Hollisters do not have any plans at this time to subdivide their property. The
reason that they have requested annexation and a rezone is in part because of
the school districts desire to be annexed. They were informed that they needed
also, their property needed also to be annexed. They are willing to be annexed
and they realize that there will be some restrictions and covenants that they will
have to abide by. They really don’t have a problem with that. They are
concerned with the fact that there is a request for an extremely tall fence along
their property, but again as we have stated they really don’t have any plans to
subdivide.
MacCoy: While you are there, any commissioners have any questions?
Borup: Yes Mr. Chairman, probably the only—staff’s last comment number
seven on a planning buffering strip, I don’t know if that had been discussed with
the applicant at all, or is this the first that they have heard about it?
Anderson: That’s the first they have heard about it.
Borup: Would you have any idea at all on their acceptability?
Anderson: I don’t think that they would really have a problem with that. They
don’t plan on just leaving that as an eyesore. It is their entrance to their property,
and such, I think they would be willing to do that.
Borup: I would have the same concerns as Shari that backs up to a lot of
neighbors along that way.
Anderson: It does.
MacCoy: Nothing Commissioner De Weerd?
De Weerd: No.
MacCoy: Commissioner Nelson?
Nelson: I have nothing.
MacCoy: Anyone here who would like to speak on the positive side for this item?
Seeing none, is there anybody who would like to speak in the negative side for
this thing?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 6
TOM DAVIS, OWNS PROPERTY THAT BORDERS SCHOOL DISTRICT/
HOLLISTER PROPERTY:
Davis: For the past three years, we’ve been picking up trash off of Summerfield
once or twice a week and after a wind storm a lot. This third phase of
Summerfield they put in all the sewers and all the streets, started building houses
before there was ever any fences put up. We had a signed agreement with the
developer that we would have a fence. At the last, they finally put in a fence. A
wood fence is a very poor deterrent for all this stuff that comes over the fences
and also the chain link fence that we requested would let the air through and
catch the stuff. I’ve gone to all the city agencies two years ago and got very little
help on any of it, finally after one windstorm we picked up trash over our farm. I
have a grade A dairy and we’ve got to keep this plastic and insulation out of our
feed sources. We picked up and picked up that one day and so anyway, finally I
was quite upset and called the mayor and got a hold of him on a Saturday
afternoon. I told him the situation and he took my name and number and said he
would check into it the next week and get back to me. He wasn’t very interested
in the situation either because he never got back to me. The only way I can see
with the Meridian School proposal, that there is a quarter of mile of fence—
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I think we are talking about—we are not talking about the
school application here.
Davis: The reason I bring that up is if you don’t want me to testify twice, is that
my property borders Hollister…
Borup: I understand that, I just didn’t know if you understood this particular
application, just for annexation, the city, no other development, no other
construction or anything on this site. Everything is staying as it presently exists.
Davis: Isn’t this an application for an R-4?
Borup: They’ve got one house there and it’s not changing. Nothing is being
added.
Davis: If it was an R-4 though, wouldn’t it be okay for houses?
Borup: No it wouldn’t, not without a subdivision.
Davis: Okay I guess—do you want me to re-testify then on the schools?
MacCoy: I think that would be better. We all have your letter that you sent out. I
think we understand your problem. Some of us have been through construction,
so we know. You are telling us a lot of things that we have knowledge of. We
feel for you is I guess what we can say for it.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 7
Davis: The thing is that we are getting awfully tired of picking up all this stuff
which isn’t ours. If you go over there to try and get a little help to pick it up, as
soon as it’s off the lot, they all say it’s not theirs.
MacCoy: We understand that.
Rossman: Sir it would be more appropriate to raise your issues during the
school district application. Your letter is in the record however though, so if you
have anything to offer over and above what is in your letter, please do so during
the school districts application.
MacCoy: Is there anybody else who would like to get up?
GLEN STEPHENSON, SUMMERRIDGE SUBDIVISION:
Stephenson: A few questions, problems that I have with the annexation of the
Yukon Subdivision would be the placement of the road. I didn’t have any
information as to whether the road will be lighted, and whether it is going to
paved and what kinds of possibly safety—I don’t really want people parking out
in the dark street right behind my house. Some of us have platforms of our
houses that are within 10-20 feet of the property line. I think it will mare the
Summerfield Subdivision to have a dirt road behind the subdivision and for
apparently only a few houses. I think it may be unwise to vote on a subdivision
that—approve a subdivision or approved future development of a land that they
say has no plan there. I’m not sure why it would be wise to vote to allow that be
annexed for future development if there is no plan for it.
MacCoy: They have to come back here anyway so it’s a matter of annexation.
Before you leave, Shari you want to comment about that, about the road?
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners no plans have been presented to the
Planning and Zoning department as far as the construction of that road, the
Planning and Zoning Commission could place appropriate conditions as part of
the annexation. Could require that the development agreement be entered into,
to dictate some of those concerns and how that is going to be developed. They
did have a private road application before Ada County that was approved,
however, I don’t think it’s in the location that is shown now. I don’t know how
much dust would be generated from one home. I guess it depends on how many
vehicles they have coming in and out. I think through a requirement for some
kind of a planning strip there would help cut down on some of that.
MacCoy: There was no lights involved in that any of that anyway.
Stiles: Pardon?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 8
MacCoy: There was no pole lights…
Stiles: Not that we are aware of.
MacCoy: I didn’t read it any place.
Stiles: If they decided in the future that they wanted to subdivide this property,
they would have to come back before you and the City Council with a new
application and all the property owners within 300 feet would be notified of that
hearing.
MacCoy: That’s what I wanted to hear, thank you. Is there anybody else who
would like to speak at this time on the negative side? Come on up sir.
JOE STEINBACH, 2065 PARADISE LANE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Steinbach: I think it is rather a frugal situation when you want to annex
something into the city not knowing what we are going to annex into the city and
what the purpose is. As we look down and we see later on about the school
situation here it looks like this is just something to lure us in, we annex it and
then we look at the second issue and what is the expense of that to us people
that live out there. My concern of annexing this into the city is what is the city
going to do about the road if they do annex this into the city and where is the
plan, because the road is already overloaded. There are two church facilities out
there that are used very actively, that is an alternate road for not only the Eagle,
as well as the Linder and the Meridian Road exchange. The impact that that will
have without proper roads and not knowing where we are going is going to bring
about more traffic on a road that is already overloaded and not a qualified road to
begin with. I just don’t see that it is necessary that we continue unless we know
that we are going to go forward with. If it is to be a school or to be a subdivision.
My personal feelings toward this is that we are already being impacted too much
with too many subdivisions in our community and in finalizing this, that is a farm
ground and I’m very partial to the farming that goes on out there. It’s the
heritage of this community and I feel that it is a privilege to have that farm out
there, in tact. That’s what I would say.
MacCoy: Shari do you have any comments on that? You don’t have to, I’m just
saying…
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, I think there is still a
misunderstanding, this is not a subdivision, it’s a request for annexation and
zoning. There is one home on the lot, there will remain one home on the lot, if
anything in the future is proposed they will have to come back before the
Planning and Zoning Commission with a public hearing.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 9
MacCoy: Thank you.
Nelson: I have a question for Shari also. Don’t we actually have more
opportunity to control the subdivision as it’s annexed into the city, then if it
doesn’t?
Stiles: This proposal, although the application says, calls it Yukon Subdivision,
it’s not a subdivision.
Nelson: That’s my point, in as far as the school and everything that everyone is
concerned about is the very annexation into the city that allows us to be more
involved in how that gets developed. I think it’s a good thing so far.
MacCoy: Is there anyone else here who wants to make a statement, come on
up.
TIM BLOOD, 1654 E. SUMMERRIDGE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Blood: I attended the meeting in February last year, the application for the
private road originally through Ada County. It was my understanding at that time
it wasn’t going to be paved, but I was under the impression that the
commissioners there as per a request that I made were requiring dust
abatement, (Inaudible) some kind of road oil to keep the dust down, that satisfied
our concerns at the time. We never talked about a buffer zone just keeping the
road oiled, I’m not hearing that from you, I don’t know if that turned up in
anything in their approval for this road or not. Is that—do you have a record of
that? So despite me standing there being assured that it would be required as a
condition to approve this road, it doesn’t exist in print then?
MacCoy: Go ahead.
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, the application that was submitted
was submitted through Ada County, and approved through Ada County, the city
was not part of that approval. I would certainly think it would be appropriate to
place as a condition of the annexation that if it remains a dust—dirt road that
they also be required to provide that dust abatement.
Blood: So we can do that at this level?
Stiles: Sure.
Blood: Again I would like to request that an organically based road oil be used
on the road. As a resident directly adjacent this property and proposed road,
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 10
under the circumstances that were discussed last year and from what I’m hearing
this year, I personally have no problem with it, again as long as it’s required oil.
MacCoy: Fine, thank you sir. Anyone else?
GREG RUDDELL, 6250 VIEW DRIVE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Ruddell: I’m not for or against this, but something that I would like to point out is
that that road is quite a length and I think that one gentleman mentioned that
about lighting. I think you might want to consider future necessity for street lights
along that road, should this parcel get rezoned into application in the future
where your zoning ordinance is going to require street lights every so many feet
that is going to shine in somebody’s backyard.
MacCoy: Well, we take your comments seriously, if it goes into a development,
lighting will be required, but we can also shield that lighting, as part of our
requirements. We don’t like the same thing that you don’t like, and that’s shining
in peoples homes.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, might just mention for information if this some time in the
future did become a subdivision, this would not be the access to it.
De Weerd: It’s a private drive.
Borup: It’s not a legal right of way for a road. So the access would have to
come obviously from the east, is the only spot left. There would not be a road, at
this point it is a driveway from one residence.
MacCoy: More like an alley. Is anyone else?
TERRY TALLMAN, 1956 E. SUMMERRIDGE.
Tallman: I’m still a little bit confused regardless whether or not the subdivision is
even in existence right now, is the road moving to the backside of the fence. Is
the driveway going to be moved to—is it going to be moved anyway?
MacCoy: Shari do you want to comment on that?
Stiles: The proposal at least as far as I can tell from the application is they would
have 40 feet of frontage on Locust Grove Road, that 40 feet would be
immediately adjacent to Summerfield Subdivision and I believe, yes that is where
they are proposing the entrance to their home would be.
Borup: Wouldn’t that also be correct, they could’ve put their driveway there.
Their existing driveway could have been there just as easy as down the middle of
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 11
their property to start with. How ever many years ago they put it in, they could’ve
put it in the other location at that time without any approvals.
MacCoy: It’s on their property. Anyone else? Seeing that there is no one else,
I’m going to call the applicant back forward up here, do you want to make
comments and a rebuttal for any of this?
Anderson: Thank you commissioners. I believe that there has been some
confusion on the fact that the Hollisters desired to give whoever would want to
purchase their land in the future the opportunity to develop it. So when the
application was put in, it was called the Yukon Subdivision. I can see now, and
I’m sure if the Hollisters were here they would also agree that it has caused
some concern and unfortunately that has happened. Again, they don’t plan on
developing that land. In fact, if Mr. Hollister had his way, there would be nobody
there. He is planning on getting out, he’s too much in the city as it is now. Again
as we stated before the reason they are requesting a rezone and an annexation
is because it has been required by Planning and Zoning that if the property that
the school district owns and is requesting to be annexed is so annexed, then
they also need to be annex. That’s why they have made this application,
otherwise they wouldn’t have done it.
MacCoy: Any questions for him? Okay, thank you very much.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the public hearing.
Nelson: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor of that?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: Any discussion?
De Weerd: I think a couple of issues were raised as far as dust abatement for
the dirt road as well as Shari’s recommendation for a planting strip between the
existing sub and the road. I would…
Borup: I think both of those would be pertinent. I don’t know—was there any
discussion on how wide of a planning strip?
De Weerd: Shari did you have a recommendation on the planning strip?
Stiles: I would think a minimum of five feet for a planning strip would be
appropriate.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 12
De Weerd: Would you ask that they submit plans to you prior to…
Stiles: Prior to the relocation of the driveway.
De Weerd: I don’t have anything further.
MacCoy: Commissioner Borup?
Borup: I have nothing else.
Nelson: I have nothing.
MacCoy: What is your motion?
Borup: Were you preparing a motion?
De Weerd: Sure. Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve annexation and zoning
to R-4 for the 10.02 acres by the Hollisters to include in staff comments that the
private road would require a minimum of a five foot planning strip between the
existing subdivision and the road and to submit plans prior to relocation of the
drive, and if the road remains a dirt road to provide dust abatement and to
incorporate all other comments by departments that had been submitted.
Nelson: Second.
Borup: Question, did your motion make those as a requirements for annexation
or you made the comment that you want to add it to staff comments. Not that we
weren’t going to incorporate it into the annexation.
De Weerd: Well I always assume that the staff comments were…
Borup: Automatically?
De Weerd: Are conditions of approval, are they not?
Rossman: Not automatically.
Borup: No, I think it’s up to us.
De Weerd: Okay, I would like them to be conditions of approval.
Borup: Some of the comments talked about the utilities service to there, which at
this point they are not asking for any utility service so. That was the only
question that I had, I think we had a second.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 13
MacCoy: Yes we did. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO. 3: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING OF 40.55 ACRES BY
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT NO. 2—EAST SIDE OF LOCUST GROVE
ROAD, BETWEEN USTICK AND MCMILLAN ROAD, JUST NORTH OF
SUMMERFIELD SUB:
MacCoy: I would like to stress that this is strictly for annexation & zoning and we
are not talking about layouts or plans or anything else with this thing. Staff?
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, this request is for 40.55 acres by
Meridian Joint School District No. 2 to be zoned R-4. The R-4 zoning would
permit a public school in this location. I would like to state that the vocational
technical school that is mentioned in the Comprehensive Plan is not the school
that is proposed here. What they are proposing is a charter school, charter high
school that—they will give a further explanation of that I’m sure, but—just wanted
to let everybody know that they need to limit their comments to the issue of
annexation and zoning. There is not another issue here, there has come up
some concern about siting of the middle school and wanting to change locations,
this is not the appropriate forum to bring up those comments. If that is your
intent in attending tonight, I would ask that you not bother to comment because
this is strictly for annexation and zoning. If you’ve got issues with the siting and
what they are doing there, that needs to come up before the school district. With
your review of this application, we would support review of the initial building that
they are proposing to be done at staff level and that any future buildings on the
site would require processing through a conditional use permit process. I not Mr.
Davis’s concern about the fencing and the trash. What they have contemplated
at this time is strictly, primarily the western most portion of the property. I think
that a six foot fence at the property line should be able to contain their debris
from any of their construction. Nine foot fencing is not permitted in this zone.
They would require a variance for any kind of fencing over six feet high. We do
understand the problems that have been created for Mr. Davis and would
encourage him to contact our office any time he has a problem and we would
even be willing to come out ourselves and help you with the trash if that
continues to be a problem. The city could require that a development agreement
be entered into as part of this application. I don’t necessarily think we have to do
that. It may be as part of the conditional use permit process we will be able to
control how that development proceeds and make sure that the appropriate
acceleration, deceleration lanes are provided through the Ada County Highway
District. The audience also needs to note to that the city does not control
roadways, I don’t have in my packet comments from Ada County Highway
District, but the school district will be required to meet any conditions of Ada
County Highway District prior to obtaining a building permit for this site.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 14
MacCoy: Thank you Shari. Bruce do you have anything that you want to add?
No? Okay. I will answer one other thing, there was a question here or statement
made that sometime years ago things didn’t happen. As of the later part of this
year we have in place several control officers that have authority and we do
issue citations and if they are not adhered too, it goes into legal form. So we
have a lot more of a stick now than we ever had before. So we plan to enforce
the law as we see it. I will open the public hearing and will the applicant like to
speak before this project (Inaudible).
WAYNE THOWLESS, 1735 FEDERAL WAY, BOISE, ID.
Thowless: I’m an architect with Leatham & Krohn Architects, I represent the
Meridian School District this evening. I’ll make a couple of comments and get
some direction from you in terms of how you would like us to proceed. We do
have some drawings of the proposed facility on the property in question here
tonight. If you feel it’s appropriate to the discussion and any questions or
concerns that you have, we would be more than happy to share them with you,
they are architectural drawings. If that’s not an issue that you want to deal with
this evening, you can so direct me. We also have Sally Harris of the Meridian
School District that is available to answer any questions that you may have and
make some comment regarding the nature of this proposed Charter School,
given that is somewhat of a unique institution. Many people here tonight, you on
the commission as well as members of the audience may not have an accurate
understanding of the nature of the program that will be offered there.
MacCoy: To answer the first part of this, since we are talking annexation and
zoning as you have heard us talk about, that is our key point tonight, we would
like to know in verbal form some of the details if you want to offer them to us.
We are not looking at your buildings yet, that comes later for another meeting
and at that time expect drawings and lot plan and those things to be shown to us.
I think this evening it’s just what was said, it’s a basic item for you.
Thowless: Okay, very briefly then, of the property in question, the school district
at the present time has plans to develop approximately 3.5 or 4 acres of the
property in the extreme southwest corner. On that property they intend to build a
16,000 square foot single story building and the parking lot and driveway to
accommodate approximately 100 cars and bus loading and unloading. The
school will house—this initial building will house a maximum of 200 students.
The—our firm, and the Meridian School District have been working with other
agencies, such as Ada County Highway Department and are fully prepared to
comply with any conditions that might be proposed, that are in the best interest
of the project and the neighborhoods. I don’t think that unless there are
questions, there is probably too much more to add without going into details of
the design of the project.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 15
MacCoy: Okay, commissioners?
Borup: Nothing at this time.
De Weerd: Nothing at this time.
Nelson: I would just ask—you mentioned a plan for 4 acres out of the 40 acres.
Thowless: That’s correct.
Nelson: Is there any known plans for the remainder of that property?
Thowless: The district doesn’t have any specific plans at this time. It’s presently
in farming, but any final decision on the immediate use of the property until
further development is necessary and it would be up to the (Inaudible) school
district and they have made no decisions at this time.
MacCoy: Thank you. Anyone here like to speak in favor of this item?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for Shari. If there is a proposed
building for this annexation, why do we not have a preliminary plat or any
information on that?
Stiles: The ordinance doesn’t specifically require that they have building plans
as part of an annexation and zoning. I know that normally you do see plans
particularly in those mixed plan use areas designated in the Comprehensive Plan
which requires they submit a conditional use permit as part of the annexation.
We haven’t asked them to come in with the conditional use permit for this
because their initial plan is for the one building and in the future if they propose
additional buildings, we would ask that they would have to go through the
conditional use process.
De Weerd: But if this is the forum that residents have to comment on the
building, we don’t even know what is proposed to respond to any concerns or—I
guess I feel disadvantaged.
MacCoy: That comes later, that’s the thing about it, as they bring it forward in
the next segment—we get a chance to see what they are doing.
Borup: I think that is the question, we are talking about annex—this is one
parcel, it’s not really a subdivision being created is it?
Stiles: No.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 16
(END OF TAPE)
Borup: …of entire parcel, they are proposing buildings on their single parcel.
MacCoy: So what are you saying then?
Borup: Well, staff requested earlier that building and plan approval be handled
on a staff level. So this is the only forum. Unless we decide otherwise.
MacCoy: Let me ask Shari this question, it’s on your level to start with, but it
comes back to us as a group as to what kind of buildings we put up and how
they all go together and so on.
Stiles: That’s entirely up to Planning and Zoning Commission, if it’s your desire
that this come back to you for the initial building that they are proposing to
review, I mean it can be at staff level. The architect may want to address the
type of construction they are proposing, but I don’t know if they have anything
solid in place.
MacCoy: I wouldn’t think so tonight, but I would like to put on your cuff or board
or whatever, that they do come back after they have gone through the material
with you people so that we have a chance to make comment on it.
Stiles: Typically as you are aware, when we do have the site plan reviews, we
do put those on the agenda, but that is not a public hearing and the public is not
part of that discussion.
MacCoy: They can’t be involved in the answers and questions, but they can be
here to see and hear what goes on, it’s an open meeting.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I guess the only other question I would have then is
where is the four acres placed on this property?
Stiles: It would be on the southwest portion of the property.
MacCoy: Okay do you want to come back and answer that before we move on.
Thowless: Approximately in square in proportion in the immediate southwest
corner of the property. Mr. Chairman if I could add one other comment related to
the discussion about process this evening. The Meridian School District would
very much like to have this facility opened for school in the fall of this year.
Consequently anything that could be done to expedite the process would be
greatly appreciated by the school district. We are fully prepared tonight to
answer any and all questions regarding the nature of the project, the design of
the project, of course that’s your decision whether you choose to have us do
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 17
that. I don’t think there is any question tonight that we would be unable to
answer because we have gone quite far in terms of the development of this
proposal, thank you.
MacCoy: I just don’t care to get into long dissertation on materials and placing
and so on tonight for an annexation.
Rossman: The point should be made that it is not entirely relevant to this
proceeding, it’s a conforming use, there is no requirement in the ordinance that
they submit for an application for conditional use permit on their buildings on this
particular property. If the commission wants to make it a requirement of the
annexation and zoning that the plans be submitted for staff approval, or even
brought before the Planning and Zoning Commission, they can do that. The
ordinance does not require it, so that’s why you don’t have plans and building
requirements, your building information in your packets.
MacCoy: That’s right, I agree with you. Over here we had a lady coming up to
speak in favor.
DARLA HARRIS, 901 MERIDIAN ROAD, SCHOOL DISTRICT OFFICE,
MERIDIAN, ID.
Harris: I’m speaking in favor just very briefly I would like to tell you that this
charter school is a 9-12 high school with a technology focus. That would be the
age of students that we are appealing to, those that would be very interested in
pursuing technology as possible career. The focus would be on all areas,
information systems, and graphic communications. That would be the student
population that we would be appealing to and you heard Mr. Thowless say it
would be a maximum number of 200 students at capacity. I feel that it would be
very appropriate to be on that site and annexation would be a great help to us in
developing that school, thank you.
MacCoy: Before you leave there, I think one of the things that a lot of people
have gotten a misinterpretation by the press, or by word of mouth that it was
going to be (Inaudible) vocational school, which everybody thinks about as
welding and car repair and so on, you are telling us to the public here that it is a
different type of school entirely.
Harris: It is. Our intent is that the curriculum that would be offered would allow
students to have a regular high school diploma as well as achieve 12 college
credits while they are at our school. It would be focused and integrated around
the high technology jobs and careers that are available. Our students will be
prepared to go right into industry to take those wonderful jobs and careers, we
also have them prepared to go into post secondary education if that’s what they
choose to do, either technical or four year. So we believe that by integrating the
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 18
curriculum and making it focused and applied in those areas of technology that
we will be able to do that. This is a project you need to know too that has been
underway for three years. It’s a dreamt that we’ve had for three years. We’ve
got a group of parents, teachers and students met and gave us input in on it and
then a group of teachers that have been working for a couple of years as a
project design committee and with the passage of the charter school legislation
last year, it allowed us a vehicle to fund this. The Meridian School Board gave us
their blessing and permission to start this school in October 26, 1998 after a
public hearing and with their support as our sponsor we are going to be able to
bring this school up. As you know charter schools are public schools and receive
public school funding for their operation. So through the district support we are
going to be able to overcome some of the difficulties that the other charter
schools around have been experiencing in terms of acquiring a building and we
will be contracting with the district for transportation services for food support
services, probably for some accounting functions. So that support is allowing us
to proceed with this project very quickly.
MacCoy: Okay, thanks for the additional information.
Harris: Thank you.
MacCoy: Anybody else on the positive side right now that would like to talk?
Good evening sir, long time no see.
BOB HALEY, 577 EAST LINKERSHIM, MERIDIAN, ID.
Haley: Mr. Chairman and commissioners, just a word of this selection of this site.
As Ms. Harris mentioned we’ve been working on this project for about three
years and as former superintendent I can tell you that it is becoming more and
more difficult to find land in this area for the schools that are going to be
necessary to serve the kids. As we develop this dream of servicing kids from all
of our high schools, we had to look very closely at a central type of site where
the kids could come in from the other schools. We very carefully selected this
site, we also attempted before purchase to spend several months, almost a year
in reviewing this with various agencies that would be involved in this final
decision, including discussion with City Council members and highway districts
and so forth. So we tried very, very hard to if you will, jump through all the hoops
that we knew we would have to, to get permission to use this. In the very early
stages there was comment in one meeting that this would be a vocational high
school, that’s probably where that got started in that whole process. Under the
state definition, it is technically called a professional technical charter high school
with a specific focus. Hopefully we can get this approved and move on.
Hopefully we did talk to all the agencies necessary before we made this
purchase of land.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 19
MacCoy: Any questions for Bob? Okay thanks Bob. Anybody else on the plus
side here, positive side? All right we will turn the coin the other way and anybody
here who wants to speak on the other side of the fence can come forward. Is
there a spokesperson out there?
GARY ELLIOT, 1835 EAST PARADISE LANE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Elliott: My question concerns the zoning R-4 zoning. If we are only—we’ve got
40 acres out there, they are going to build on four acres, do we have the right to
know the intent as to why they are zoning R-4, which is my understanding four
residential structures per acre. The last thing we want to see in Heritage Sub is
another subdivision blasting up behind us. So, I don’t know if there is somebody
who can answer as to why we’re choosing R-4 zoning.
MacCoy: Well, there is two questions that you’ve asked. For the first one, Shari
do you want to talk about the R-4 before we move on?
Stiles: They have requested the R-4 zoning because public schools is a
permitted use in that zone. There were other zones that they could have
requested, but they did choose the R-4 zone as—there are many other zones
that would permit public schools R-8, R-15, R-40 and a T-E zone, but staff did
not feel it was appropriate that they would apply for a higher density that would
cause even more concern for the adjacent residential neighborhoods. It should
also be noted that sewer is not available at this time to support any kind of
subdivision in that area. The number of homes, they are going to be very tight
right now to serve the one building that they are proposing with sewer service at
this time. There is a major trunk line that would need to be constructed to—that
would have to come all the way from Ten Mile Road through to this Locust Grove
Road in order to support anything major like that. So that’s the only reason they
requested the R-4, is because of the other zones where it is permitted. Also, our
ordinance requires anymore than one building on a lot would have to be—they
would have to develop that as a conditional use through a planned development.
So you would have another opportunity at that time. Anytime more than one
building is proposed on the lot to see their plan.
Elliott: So the intent, do we get to know the intent of the other 36 acres?
MacCoy: I’m going to ask that question in a moment here. Dr. Haley do you
want to come forward and talk about what is going to happen next?
Borup: Mr. Chairman, maybe while he is coming up also, R-4 is the lowest
density zoning that is available.
MacCoy: That’s right.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 20
Stiles: Yes.
Borup: So the only other way to go is higher densities.
Haley: Mr. Chairman, commissioners, the site was originally purchased in that
size in order to accommodate a number of buildings each of which would house
approximately 200 students with a specific focus all of which could be classified
as charter schools. In the plan that we have sketched out with the architect,
there could be in fact six buildings in total very similar to the one that we have
designed at this point. Somewhat in a radius and in the center a seventh
building that would be a building to take care of media center, lunch room, that
kind of thing. Each of those six buildings would have a different focus. This one
happens to be in the area of technology, the next one might be in the area of
health occupations, and so on.
MacCoy: So what you are saying is that we have a campus when we finish that.
A mini campus like you would have for college for example.
Haley: I would anticipate that this is something that would not evolve in a year or
two, something that would probably evolve over a period of somewhere five to
ten years as each one of these clusters or focus is developed.
MacCoy: Any questions from commissioners? Okay. Thanks Dr. Haley.
GREG RUDDELL, 6250 VIEW DRIVE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Ruddell: I’m going to speak tonight in general terms of the Comprehensive Plan.
Tammy said it best up here when she made the comment about where do these
people get to address these concerns. We aren’t even going to get to see this
building. The district has put out some information or at times represented 1,500
students. Well, I’ll challenge you 40 acres of land is a full fledge school. It’s
capable of being the same size at capacity as any of their other high schools,
which is 2,000 to 2,200 depending on building configurations, etc. It’s not a
typical brick and mortar school. Should a charter school doesn’t work as was
explained in an email by (Inaudible) and the school district, they are metal
buildings with stucco exterior glass doors. I think she described them look a lot
like offices. Should this charter school not work, what are they going to do with
these facilities? You have an office building in a residential zone, non-
conforming use on an R-4, but back to the Comprehensive Plan, I think it’s kind
of unfair to split this Comprehensive Plan up into little segments and not consider
the total impact of all the sections which starts from the community all the way
through transportation, the environment, it speaks to all those things. Under
school siting statements, it says schools and subdivision developments shall be
jointly planned to ensure mutual benefits and neighborhood identity. It
specifically speaks to elementary and intermediate schools. School sites shall
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 21
be talked about safety of children, talks about access, pedestrian bicycle for
children within their residential neighborhoods. Increased traffic should be
discouraged on streets where existing elementary schools are located. We have
a school up here that they are proposing, approximately say 1,500 students from
as Mr. Haley described, that’s a district wide school, from Star to the Kuna border
to Lake Hazel to Silver Sage. These kids are all going to be driving not arterially,
or major streets, but they are going to be driving these back roads to get to these
schools.
MacCoy: Or bus.
Ruddell: Or bus, but generally a lot of high school students provide their own
transportation. We’ve been told that part of the school is going to be a work
study program that these kids will go off campus for work training at Micron or
whatever. Do you want 1,000 kids going to Micron down Locust Grove? These
are residential streets.
MacCoy: I’m not sure you will have that, but go ahead.
De Weerd: Sir, I believe right now we are talking four acres and 200 students.
Ruddell: Lets just disclose what they are doing. As you said…
De Weerd: Now, if we make it a condition that they have a conditional use permit
for any additional buildings…
Ruddell: Once it gets going it’s hard to stop. It’s just like somebody said, where
do you stop it? There is no place to stop this. Staff has recommended that they
approve the building at the staff level, which I understand that you disagree with,
but if staff gets their recommendation, these people out here aren’t going to even
have something to say about the building design. If we go with—if you go with
staff recommendation.
MacCoy: Let me put something in there, because the staff is qualified and the
group that you will be seeing, a number of them are engineers and architects
themselves and you will get a pretty nice piece for the public.
Ruddell: Okay, as we come into the 21st
Century, we’ve come out of the typical
historical vocational trades into the computer high technical trades. Well the
Comprehensive Plan isn’t using a politically correct term for the 21st
Century.
This is a 1990 term, instead of a—and where it says that these vocational
schools, professional schools, where you are going to have kids transported or
access from throughout the community, there is only one school in the whole
Meridian School District, this school should be sited where these transportation
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 22
to it, has easy access to the interstate, to the south county, to the north county.
Here we have this thing in the residential neighborhood.
Borup: Could you expand on that a little bit sir? This is a section line road.
Ruddell: Yes, but it is on the Ada Planning Map as a minor collector.
Borup: Collector?
Ruddell: Arterial. It’s a minor, it’s the fourth one down their list.
Borup: Right now, but all section line roads are assumed as the population of
traffic grows, then they will be increased.
Ruddell: In the whole scheme of things it’s a minor—it’s more minor than
Fairview, Cherry Lane, Eagle Road, Franklin, Overland.
Borup: So you are saying that you would rather see this school sited on Eagle
and Fairview?
Ruddell: I think if you followed the Comprehensive Plan and just followed that
in close proximity the I-84 interchange, it would be suitable.
Borup: That was my other point, because I’m very interested in what you are
saying about the Comprehensive Plan.
Ruddell: That’s 3.10 and it’s on page 14. But then we go on to page—about
54, transportation goals, where you speak to generally—transportation goal is…
De Weerd: It’s a charter school, not a vocational school.
Ruddell: It’s the same thing. They’ve given it a year 2,000, 21st
century term.
This was written in 1990.
Borup: That’s semantics maybe, but the Comprehensive Plan does say it should
be located on a minor arterial.
Ruddell: No. Well it says, no, yeah or a minor arterial with I-84, okay, well
Locust Grove doesn’t—isn’t a minor arterial with I-84. There is not going to be
any interchange at Locust Grove up here.
Borup: It wouldn’t be a minor arterial if it had an interchange.
Ruddell: It says industrial review area and an interchange with I-84.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 23
MacCoy: Let me stop you right here and tell you a couple of things. Dr. Haley
mentioned the fact that they had worked with all the various entities and the
highway department are both two divisions. One is the Idaho division of
highways and one is the other for the State of Idaho. Some of us have been
involved in the whole study, all right now wait a minute. There is a lot of changes
that are already on the books right now on everyone of these, Linder, Locust
Grove, Ten Mile, they are all going to be expanded, I-84 is going to be expanded
again. We are just seeing the beginning of it down here in the Flying Wye which
is coming right back into meridian because we are next in line over all Idaho
cities right now, so we have been looking at this school site and other school
sites that have already been picked and looked at and we’ve got a group of
people that are all walks of society, come from businesses and everything else
that are working on this thing with what I think is some of the best technology
we’ve got in the community around here to pick out where this place should be
so we don’t make a mistake now, because we can’t afford later on to come in
and say we would like to buy it someplace else because the land in Meridian is
going out of site, this in the last year. We’re are in trouble already from that
standpoint, but anyway, I just want to let you know that there has been a lot of
people involved in making plans with hopefully all the smartest things we could
put into this thing.
Ruddell: But the transportation goal speaks to a balance and mixed
transportation say environmental for both short and long-term. You know policies
down through there. In 1.3U encourage development of balance of
transportation in support of air quality and environmental concerns. Okay, that’s
what I’m saying is I believe you should look at this thing as a global nature, this
site by itself if there were no other alternative for it, is one thing. When they have
an alternative and I don’t want to bring the middle school in it, but there is an
alternative there. So it’s not a one piece meal, I don’t think it should be
considered piece meal. When it gets piece mealed, you loose the cohesiveness
of this Comprehensive Plan. We would go and consider needs of pedestrians,
bicyclists in development we do process, designate Locust Grove from Ustick to
Chinden as a connector. Community design, you talk about neighborhoods, I
spoke about neighborhoods on elementary and intermediate school, but they
should be located in the neighborhoods. I’ll just leave that with you and the
concern that when this Comprehensive Plan doesn’t get followed and a good
planning process is—if we end up with school district policies, I don’t know if
you…historical in the newspaper about a week ago. The school district has a
policy that children must be off the campus in 15 minutes or 30 minutes after
school. That’s fine as long as that school is located in a neighborhood, where
that kid, child, student can walk home. When we talk about this transportation
plan, when you (Inaudible) sites, the child can walk home. The middle school
child can walk home, from the Cloverdale site, the middle school child can not
walk home. Which you force the parent to drive down there…
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 24
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I think we are getting a little off track here.
MacCoy: I agree with you.
Ruddell: I’m just saying on the Comprehensive Plan, if you look at it in totality,
with transportation and all that, what poor planning with not complying with it in
the transportation, the community needs and better siting of these schools. You
know we end up with these other secondary problems that cause concerns to the
parents of the students that attend those schools.
MacCoy: Let me stop you right there, where the Comprehensive Plan for 1993
was put together without a lot of thought process in the future, starting this year
we are redoing our Comprehensive Plan for our city. Eagle has just completed
theirs, Boise is doing theirs, Kuna is just going to finish pretty soon this spring.
We are all working together and a lot of these things are coming together and
we’ve had a lot of meetings and we’ve got a lot more to go with the very same
thoughts that you have just mentioned here. So we are not doing it blindly, I
would like to have you understand that.
Ruddell: Okay, but when you consider this, when you consider the fact that you
are putting a whole school district school in a residential neighborhood, if they flip
flopped them as that little chart shows it, those numbers are provided by the
school district.
De Weerd: That is something to bring up to the school board.
Ruddell: As you said there is no place to stop it, because once you approve this
and as your city code, I think that’s true, all they need to do is go to the building
department and get a building permit, it’s history and it’s done.
De Weerd: No they don’t.
MacCoy: Okay let me stop you, your time is up, thank you for your comments
and we will move on here. Anybody else who would like to speak now?
LAURA LONG, 2345 STAR LANE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Long: I would like to oppose, and I would like to go on record, the reason why
we oppose this is because basically we moved into the subdivision to have a
rural quality of life, and currently as it’s zoned, we get a rural quality of life. We
paid extra for that part. Directly behind our house runs the drainage ditches and
that sort of thing, there is habitat that lives back there, there is all kinds of wild
life, there is fox, there is goose, there is duck, skunk, everything that you could
imagine that is back there and all of that stuff is going to get trashed whenever
these people start building these buildings. I’m like him, I would like to see the
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 25
whole thing before they do anything. If you wanted a compromise, why not just
zone the little four acre parcel. I don’t see zoning the 40.55, I don’t see zoning
the whole thing, if they are only going to use four acres of it, then only zone four
acres of it. That’s all I’ve got to say.
TIM BLOOD, 6054 EAST SUMMERIDGE DRIVE.
Blood: I’m going to have to oppose annexation of any of it unless you can help
me understand what I can do to protect my neighbors and myself and my
property values, the safety of my neighbors and myself. We talked about some
conditions attached to the annexation, am I hearing this right? How can we—
again the concerns are obvious, I don’t want to waste your time going back over
territory that is obvious. We want to see the plan, I want to know why this
gentleman is talking about the far southwest corner. Hey, that’s right behind my
house, how did they arrive at that? What can we do to bring this plan into the
public form? I’m alarmed when I hear we would like to hurry this through just as
fast as we can. I’m all for education, but I’m also a member of the public and
some of this stuff is coming at me from left field. I want to see the plan, I want to
know the how and the why they are going to use this 40 acres. I oppose
annexation at all, unless you can assure me that we are going to get some public
input along the line somewhere. How is that going to happen? Help me.
MacCoy: I will give you your answer in a moment here. Hold that for a minute,
anything else?
Borup: I’ve got a question Mr. Chairman. (Inaudible) get information and fact
finding, apparently you oppose to having a school site next to the subdivision, is
that what I’m hearing?
Blood: I’m opposed to the school site as it’s been described this evening. I’m
opposed to anything just popping up like a mushroom (Inaudible) before hand.
Borup: Well, would you rather see some other, something else developed there
than a school site? Another subdivision?
Blood: As opposed to a high school, a large campus, personal opinion, I would
rather see the middle school there. That’s what I would rather see there. I didn’t
think we would discuss those things, so I’ve been avoiding those particular
subjects.
De Weerd: And I don’t think it’s an option either.
(Inaudible)
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 26
Borup: I don’t know if it’s anything that we can control, I’m just trying to get a feel
for what—there seems to be opposition to a school in the neighborhood, I’m not
sure where a school should be.
Blood: …I may not even be opposed to this one. What I’m opposed to is being
blindsided by a building popping up on the southwest corner by not knowing the
full scope of what is going to go on there, by not being able to have any input
before it happens, by wanting to rush it in. That’s what I’m opposed to, that’s
what I want you folks to help protect me against. I’m assuming that’s why you
are here.
MacCoy: That’s right, yes.
Blood: Well then, lets slow this process down to the point where the public and
the subdivision can have a look at what the school district has planned, that’s
what I would like to see.
MacCoy: Dr. Haley would you come back up please? You’ve heard the
statements of the people here, is there anyway that in planning, I don’t know why
this has been such a hidden piece because it’s been around (Inaudible) for some
time, but is there anyway that we could actually have this on display someplace
where people can come see it or we could put it someplace which would be if it’s
in the (Inaudible)? Do you have any suggestions?
Haley: Mr. Chairman, commissioners, Mr. Thowless has this pretty well drawn
up, I believe they are colored renderings of the building, there is a site plan, all of
that could be on display, made public at any time, I guess I’m a little bothered by
the comment that these things just suddenly occur, because that becomes a
communication problem. We have sites all over the valley that we have plans
for, but to reveal those until we get to this stage is almost impossible.
MacCoy: I understand that, this one here, we are now to a point to where it
could be in an evening meeting, displayed and explained and then go through
that so if you could schedule something like that from the school district, because
you are out of our territory right now by doing…(Inaudible) direct you to do this,
we are saying we hear the message here and I think communication, you are
right, seems to be the key issue here with what the school district is doing.
Haley: Mr. Chairman, certainly a public hearing could be held, or public viewing
whatever you want to call it could be held right away on this if people wanted to
come in and see not only the plan for the four acres, but the long term intent that
could be shared very soon.
MacCoy: Thank you sir.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 27
Borup: Mr. Chairman, question for Mr. Haley. Are there any drawings here
tonight showing—okay, so we do have something here tonight that we could see.
I realize this is something that we said we wouldn’t talk about, but it seems to be
a lot of questions that may answer a few questions and minds on this site over,
I’m assuming that they are talking about the Crossroad site. Is that the other—
looking at some stuff that was submitted here earlier, the middle school site—
maybe just expand on why this particular site. You already mentioned that it is
centrally located throughout the Meridian School District, that is probably your
number one reason for this location because of the central location.
Haley: Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Borup, yes this site as I mentioned
before was very carefully chosen so there wouldn’t be a hardship on any
particular high school to get to this site. If we move it to the site that has been
mentioned as the site for the next middle school, which is on Pine Street
extended, then you begin to create a distance problem from Eagle High School
and students are going to be driving further, where if we put it in the center, we
will have pickup points with bus transportation, bringing students into the site. It
was carefully selected, we could’ve gone any number of directions to do this, but
the middle school site was also carefully selected as well and some of you
remember us taking over two years of negotiations to get that site so we could
relieve student populations at Lake Hazel, Lowell Scott…
Borup: The middle school which would be right off Eagle Road, that would all be
busing, there wouldn’t be any student driving at that location would there?
Haley: That’s a middle school and very few of those students…
Borup: So we don’t have to worry about students on that busy road.
Haley: Very minimal.
MacCoy: Is it something that you could deal with…
Unidentified: I just have to ask you guys, are we beyond the point of making any
changes at all on your site plan at this point? Are you guys…
Unidentified: Is it a done deal?
Unidentified: Yeah, a public meeting is going to be a mute point, if you already
know what you are going to do regardless. Is that where we are at with that?
Haley: Mr. Chairman and commissioners I think the real question here is why did
we pick the four acres in the corner?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 28
Blood: That’s my real question, I believe there are other people here that have
others.
Haley: The reason for that is because that is the point closest to where sewer
and water would be. It is also right in the corner where the new driveway would
go up along the side. So it seemed logical to place it at that particular point in
terms of saving tax payer dollars. In terms of moving it to another corner, the
center or whatever, the increase of cost and we felt like at this point in time we
wanted to keep the cost to a minimum.
MacCoy: Thank you. Anybody else who wants to speak at this time?
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I’m wondering if it would save some future questions if we
had a short presentation on the plans (Inaudible) or maybe see some response
from the audience after Mr. Steinbach.
JOE STEINBACH, 2065 PARADISE LANE.
Steinbach: You know, I’ve never attended one of these things, I forget even your
title.
MacCoy: Commissioner.
Steinbach: I came up here and I knew there was some sort of proposal and I
attended this meeting because I received this letter in the mail, like most my
peers as well. I ask the question and it was so stated that there is no proposal—
going backwards for a moment please and I hate to regress this was just to
annex something into the city without a plan. Holly cow, what are you people
representing to us? This is annexed and bang, he’s got a plan, he’s got a plan
and this is already a cut and dry deal.
MacCoy: Did you hear us say that it has to come back before us before—they
can’t put in a Jack In The Box out there, that’s not allowed.
Steinbach: Maybe I appreciate that, maybe I would rather have a Jack In The
Box out there than a school.
MacCoy: Well, I’m sorry that you feel that way, but go ahead.
Steinbach: At this point in time, I’m not against quality education. If we were
only talking about annexation, I believe that’s what this here says for a proposed
school. Goodness gracious, I mean 4 acres for a school, that’s ludicrous.
That’s a waste of good tax payers money. So there has got to be more to this.
One other thing is a fact sir, that path that you call that little road that he got in
there, that was $58,000 worth of road construction. I’m sure there is a purpose
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 29
behind that. Maybe to support these buses for this school and these proposals.
Long range, how is this going to impact me as a tax payer to the Meridian School
Bonds that are going to come before again that I get to pay more on. The rest of
these folks here, have you considered that, I address the issue as the sewers.
We don’t even have enough in the Meridian sewer to come that direction. The
roads are not adequate for that. Look at the other areas of development in this
community that are exactly in this same situation. Please first consider those
issues.
MacCoy: We do that.
Steinbach: As a road source you talk about safety and conservation, you talk
about animals. We the people here of this community would like to be heard first
instead of somebody railroading something through, because all I’m interested in
is annexing this at this time. Then would it do to effect and I know that my time is
running out, my property values. What is going to happen to my property
values? As Mr. Davis so stated, what is going to happen when these
contractors--you can go out to any given area and see these messes. Sir, you
wake up with a plan everyday, and a plan for this meeting as most of the
business people in the working force that goes forward everyday. Until we see a
better plan, I am opposed. Thank you very much.
MacCoy: Back to Commissioner Borup now.
Borup: My question was I wonder if that would answer (Inaudible).
MacCoy: What I’m afraid of happening is getting into a great big discussion
about placement and size and material and how it looks and so on.
Borup: I don’t know—right now no one has any information at all. We are just
speculating. People are opposed to something that they haven’t seen.
MacCoy: Okay, let me do it this way. Would the applicant come forward please?
You say you have brought tonight (Inaudible) elevation pictures and so on.
Thowless: That is correct.
MacCoy: Okay we will make a little deviation here, we will let you share those
and I’m not looking for a lot of comment from the audience. You can see it for
the first time, if this is the first time you have come across this and at least you
get that first cut at it. I would suggest to the school district that in the immediate
future that you plan a public meeting of some type where the people, the
neighborhoods could come in and actually ask questions and go through a lot of
detail work with you, because I think they have a right to do that. So could you
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 30
give us a quick thumb nail sketch of this so they have something to go home
with.
(Inaudible)
Thowless: This is the property, north is up, Heritage Subdivision is north of the
property, the other subdivision is south. The buildings that you see on here is the
ultimate long range plan that Dr. Haley addressed a short time ago. The shaded
building in the southwest corner is the initial building that’s proposed. Again it’s
1,600 square feet to give you some idea of comparison of size, most of the
elementary schools in the Meridian School District are between 55,000-60,000
square feet. This initial building would be 1,600 square feet. It will be single
story, not double story. The middle schools in the Meridian School District are
two story structures. The initial driveway would be toward the north end of the
building. Parking primarily would be on the west between the school building
and Locust Grove, some parking would be on the south side. The building is
setback approximately 150 feet from the south property line. Along the south
property line is that private road, proposed by Mr. Hollister to access his property.
Consequently from the north fence line of the (Inaudible) Subdivision to the
closest point of the proposed building is actually about 200 feet away. The
building setback is about 250 feet from Locust Grove. In terms of siting, just that
3.5 to 4 acres is proposed to be developed at the present time. Ultimately there
would be a loop road around the campus as future buildings are developed to
spread out the parking so that a large parking lot would not be located in any one
part of the site.
(Inaudible)
Rossman: Just a minute Mr. Blood you are going to have to step up to the
microphone if you are going to testify. I don’t know if the commission (Inaudible)
MacCoy: He is making a presentation that’s it right now.
Thowless: The building itself consists of ten classrooms, a multi-purpose room,
which could be subdivided into two additional classrooms and administrative
offices. There is a great deal of glass and windows in the building and other than
that it’s quite a simple structure. Again in this building the maximum student
capacity would be 200 students.
Borup: This is a single story building?
Thowless: Single story building. The exterior of the building would be brick, clay
brick, not concrete brick stucco and glass. Permanent structure.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 31
Rossman: Mr. Blood please do not comment during this proceeding without
testifying upon invitation by the chairman, thank you.
Thowless: I will mention that the height of the building is in part due to the
parapet walls around the top which are there to screen from view the mechanical
equipment on the roof. The building were lower, you would see the mechanical
equipment on the roof, which most people find unattractive. I think in a nut shell
that should give an idea of the proposed facility.
MacCoy: All right, thank you very much. Commissioners what your (Inaudible)
public hearing? I’m going to suggest is that there would be a lot of questions to
do a lot of this and I would like to have you either wait till the school district has
their meeting, so you can opt to do that. It’s already 8:30 and we are just at
number three on our list. You are going to force it so that most these people who
are here for other things won’t even get a chance to get their items up before us,
before we close. I would ask that you either meet with them outside this room or
go to the meeting that they will provide for you. You are talking about issues and
this is not what we are here for.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: Excuse me?
Rossman: Sir.
MacCoy: Commissioners?
Nelson: Mr. Chairman it would appear that we are not going to resolve this
tonight, I would also be inclined to agree with some of the audience who
commented about dealing with this in a piece meal fashion. That does concern
me, I think it should be a full meal deal or not. We should ask the rezoning with a
plan altogether, I’m open to that. At this point, I think it would be appropriate to
not close the public hearing, but table it—continue the public hearing…
(END OF TAPE)
Rossman: Are you proposing that we continue it to a date certain?
Nelson: I would table it to our March meeting. Depending on what the other
members would like to see happen.
MacCoy: Any other discussion before a motion is made?
Borup: Commissioner Nelson said he was concerned about piece meal, could
you expand on that, I’m not sure what part you are (Inaudible) there.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 32
Nelson: If we approve this rezone to R-4, we are really not approving that
campus, yet that first building would be able to be built presumably with just staff
review and the concern I think with a lot of people here is that over the evolution
of this project that that plan may change. Of course it will come here for that,
any additional buildings are going to come here, I understand that. I think it
would be better if the community could respond to the whole campus concept
now.
Borup: I was more concerned about your comment that we are approving this
piece meal.
Nelson: Well, I think that even though we are only voting for a rezone, in effect
we are starting the process without voting on—I think if we approve the rezone to
R-4 the process begins regardless of whether any additional buildings come to
us later down the road.
Borup: You are concerned that the buildings are going to be different than what
is presented tonight, or…
Nelson: I’m not concerned about that as much as I’m concerned that the people
effected by this project aren’t going to feel that they’ve been taken care of. I
think it would be good public relations for this thing to go out in a more up front
manner. At least let them talk…
APPLAUSE
MacCoy: Any other discussion?
Nelson: On that note, before I go there—as a general rule, I would support the
project anyway, comments that came up about property values and all those
sorts of things, that comes up with almost every development that comes up. A
lot of people seem to think people won’t buy their house, when I bought my
house, I tried to buy near schools, not further away. I disagree with that logic, but
a lot of people still feel that way.
Borup: The facts don’t—the numbers don’t (Inaudible) real estate professionals
say the values are higher near schools. I’m agreeing with you.
MacCoy: You want to make a motion here?
Borup: I can make the motion, we can vote on it, I’m still wondering to continue it
if there is any other pertinent public testimony? So far we are starting repeat, if
there is something new and relevant, I would still like to hear it tonight.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 33
Nelson: So would I, there is a few people who raised their hand, I would like to
have them go on the public record so that if they don’t want to come back to
another meeting they don’t have to.
MacCoy: Commissioners that is what you want? You want to go that route?
Borup: Hear some more testimony tonight, I would. Again when I start hearing
the same thing over…
MacCoy: The point if anybody wants to make some comments, it has to be
some new type of comment, because we’ve heard quite a bit this evening
already. Anybody who would like to make a comment on the plus side right now
for this?
(Inaudible)
Ruddell: I think that everybody here knows that the school district needs schools
we would like to be involved in the process and I think they have made an offer
tonight to meet with the people, I think they—it appears you are talking about
continuing this for 30 days? I think they should offer and give us a date to meet
with us between, within the next two week time period so everybody can go and
meet.
MacCoy: It appears that we are going to do that now anyway.
Ruddell: Give us a date sir.
MacCoy: Is there anybody else who would like to make a quick comment here
before we…
REBECCA YOUNG, 4053 N LOCUST GROVE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Young: I would be directly right on that corner right across the street from them.
Where my post office box are currently, we can’t even get across the street right
now to get our post office boxes because of the traffic there. I’m a little bit
concerned about which road will be the access to north Locust Grove for that
high school. Also I would like to know the months of operation, is it 12 months,
or fall to spring? What are the hours of the school, are the students allowed to
be there in the evenings, those kind of impact details such as water and sewer,
we are all out there on septic and well right now. I have livestock, I have horses,
I grow alfalfa out there, so I would like to know what does that do with the
Settlers Irrigation and those kind of issues.
MacCoy: Let me break this down into two pieces. I’m going to ask Bruce over
here to talk about the water (Inaudible). The other questions you have about
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 34
getting across the street and so on, I would like to have you reserve that for
when you talk to the school people about how they are going to go. Stay right
where you are, Bruce?
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy, members of the commission, sewer and water is
available and has been installed in Locust Grove Road to the north boundary of
Summerfield Subdivision. As Dr. Haley had mentioned, one of the reasons for
being in that south west corner is the availability to sewer. We are getting out on
the fringes of our service area for the existing main lines and it is getting awfully
shallow. Some of the facility planning that has been done, there is a portion of
the property that will not sewer back toward Locust Grove to that corner, so that
kind of facilitates the location on that corner. There is a new well that the city is
going to be drilling, we have the property already, it is in the Summerfield
Subdivision, that will help everybody in the area, not just school, but it will help
water pressure for everybody. As far as irrigation goes, I’m sure they probably
have water rights on the property. We would be looking for them to install a
pressurized irrigation system to utilize their water rights.
Young: How is that going to effect me when I draw off water from Settlers to
irrigate my alfalfa and my horses?
Freckleton: They have an allotment of water for the property per their water
right. It has to work within their Settler’s Guidelines. They would have to—they
can’t draw more than what they have allotted to the property in other words.
Young: It just seems to me that that is a lot more detail that everybody should
be—deserved the information on down the road and for us to hurry this up into
October of this upcoming year seems to be very quick. Just when there is—I’m
on the ten acres right back behind that. That Settlers Irrigation comes through
there before it hits my property. So we need to know more detail about that kind
of thing and we are on septic and well, so I want to know how that all effects us.
Okay, that was it.
Borup: Just a quick question for Mr. Freckleton. Concerning the sewer, you said
it was, it would service this first four acre site, is that going to need to be a new
sewer line down Locust Grove to service any future development in there, most
likely, or is that determined?
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Borup, as I mentioned we are getting
on the fringes of our service area. I’ve not seen any engineering on the sewer
lines for this site. I’m not certain how far that sewer line can be extended before
we run out of depth for the gravity sewer. As you guys know, we are opposed to
doing any kind of pumping systems. The city has been looking at that northern
service area for some future trunk line extensions. The facility plan does show
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 35
there is a portion of this property that would have to be in that future zone. I
don’t know if that answers your question.
Borup: That could effect on any future development as far as delaying it or need
to wait for sewer before the whole thing could be developed at least.
MacCoy: For anybody.
Borup: Right, thank you.
MacCoy: Anything else want to be said before we…
GLENN STEPHENSON, SUMMERRIDGE.
Stephenson: I just had one quick question, do we have any chance to make a
decision with any teeth in it about the projected drawing. We can meet with the
school district and they say well that’s not going to work for us, is there any
time—it looks to me like that is setup with the parking lot, which is basically butt
out to everybody, both subdivisions and the road and I’m not that far out of high
school to know that a circular track around a high school is not that good of an
idea. So I was wondering if there was some way we could possibly move this
parking. It’s got a nice beautiful green way on the inside. Lets put the cars on
the inside and the green stuff on the outside. That’s my question, do we get any
chance (Inaudible) mean anything.
Borup: Are you saying that you would rather have the building closer to the
subdivision rather than the parking?
Stephenson: I would rather have the parking central in there and all the green
way on the inside where the parking lot is.
Borup: For the whole complex you’re saying?
Stephenson: Yeah the whole complex, lets plan it for the whole complex,
because we all know it’s going to go through, it’s a three year plan. If we are
going to have six buildings in five years, that’s more than one a year. That’s
exactly what he said.
MacCoy: Well, I think it’s going to be longer than that, but anyway, the point is
when you get to your meeting with the school district.
Stephenson: Does that mean anything? When I meet with the school district,
does it mean anything if—it’s their final decision, I’m just Joe Blow off the street.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 36
MacCoy: You are a citizen of our city, suggestions to the architect, if you have a
reason for saying what you do, they are not completely deaf.
Stephenson: I know that, but we all know—we all see things in the way that we
look at them for convenience or for cost, is there anybody who can supervise
that process of the approval, other than them, because they do have the final
word once we approve this, if I’m not—unless I’m mistaken.
MacCoy: Okay, the school district has of course got a lot of work on this thing,
but your architect is there to listen to you as a people with good ideas.
Stephenson: I don’t need a counselor, I need someone not just to listen to me, I
need someone that is going to—you guys have the authority to make final
decisions. Once it’s in the school boards hands, they have the decision. They
can hear me, they may make a few changes, but if it’s going to cause a major
havoc in a fall 99 opening, it’s not going to happen, I know it. I wouldn’t do it
probably if I was them.
MacCoy: They’ve got to go (Inaudible) anyway. Let me say one more thing to
you before you sit down. I’ve stood in that mans position before because that’s
my job. I’ve gone through what he has done here, having to meet with the whole
community, public and listen to their ideas and as the architect, I did some
changing, because some ideas came through and said well that works better and
we can do that it comes out for a (Inaudible) we do the same thing for shopping
centers, we do the same thing for a lot of places. He is not deaf. You have to
have some give and take. He’s going to listen and see if it will work out. He’s
going to be interested in just trying to figure out how you are going to live with
what he is putting out there.
Stephenson: So if it is approved though tonight, there is no other chance for
review, is that correct? Or is that not correct?
MacCoy: That has nothing to do with that. We are not talking about the building,
we are not talking about the size.
Stephenson: There will be no hearing for the building?
MacCoy: We’ve got to go through other parts of this thing. We are talking about,
like I said at the very beginning this is annexation and zoning, period. Nothing to
do with the structures on the site.
Stephenson: So there will be another meeting…
MacCoy: Yes, there will be other meetings down the road coming through here.
All right, commissioner Nelson do you want to make a motion here?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 37
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for Shari. We have Planning and
Zoning we no longer have Findings of Facts, so we do not add another month to
the process, we’ve taken that away. Will there be another public hearing at City
Council?
Stiles: Yes.
MacCoy: Might look at doing what Commissioner Nelson had proposed here
and that gives us another crack at it anyway, and the public will have a meeting
before that next meeting anyway.
De Weerd: If the school district is willing to have a special meeting with the
residents, I would be willing to have special meeting just on this particular item.
MacCoy: I think we ought to work this out with the school district, we just can’t
make the decision right here tonight.
De Weerd: I don’t mean with theirs, I mean in regards to our own business, after
they have had a chance to meet.
MacCoy: You’ve got in your hands right now, do you want to cut it now? Do you
want to move it on? Do you want to—I’ve got to wait for you to come up with
some type of motion as to how you want to see this.
De Weerd: I would like the school district to have an opportunity to comment
before we would close the public hearing, or continue it.
Borup: I agree with that.
MacCoy: Is that a motion in the first place?
De Weerd: No, it’s a statement.
MacCoy: It’s up to you to call them up here if you want.
Borup: Yes, I’ll second her motion if you want it to be a motion.
MacCoy: I’m looking for a motion as to what you want to do so we can get this
thing moving on.
De Weerd: I don’t want to close the public hearing yet, I would like to see if the
school district would like to respond before we determine any further action.
MacCoy: All right so you want a continuation…
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 38
De Weerd: No, I would just like to invite them forward.
Nelson: Mr. Chairman I think what she is asking is can we get the school district
to confirm to the public that they will meet with them at a date forward so we can
determine.
CHRISTINE DONNELL, 454 E TOBAGAL, MERIDIAN, ID.
Donnell: I’m superintendent of the school district and we would be happy to
have this meeting and believe that we could have that next Monday evening. We
just finished a board meeting last night, so next Monday evening should be
available to us and we will schedule that and make sure we get information out
to all interested parties. I would like to make just one comment though. It is
important to us to open this school as you well know and all of these people
know, the growth in the district has been astronomical over the last few years.
This charter school gives us an opportunity to relieve growth in our existing high
schools, even though it’s only by 150 to 200 students. It’s an opportunity for us,
based on the fact that we have charter legislation that allows us to do different
things with our kids and provide choices for these students and these parents.
Some of those people are here this evening in support of this wonderful choice.
My concern and I’m sure these neighbors wouldn’t share that particularly, since
they feel like they have not had privy to any of this information, but it has been
out and there has been an awful lot of information generated in the papers about
this project. We’ve already been having information meetings about this project.
Those have currently been held the last couple of weeks. My urge to you as
commissioners of planning and zoning is to annex this property so that we can
go ahead, so that we may open this school in the fall of 99. That is the concern
that we have at the school district. We certainly don’t want to do anything that
would cause us to not be good neighbors. We believe this is going to be a
beautiful facility. We think this will be an opportunity for those neighbors and I
think they will be very proud of it. So we will certainly extend this meeting time
next Monday evening. (Inaudible) is it a holiday? It isn’t a holiday for me.
Monday night is still really a good night for us. I would encourage everybody to
come, we will have it at 7:00 and we will plan to have that…
MacCoy: Where is your location?
Donnell: Currently at Meridian Middle School, we will have it there in the
auditorium, probably is the most central location.
MacCoy: All right, I’m going back to the commissioners now, what do you want
to do?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 39
Nelson: Is there a way to table this to a date certain March 9, but keep it open to
a special meeting?
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I think it would be appropriate right now to recess for a
short time, take a look at calendars and see what we want to do.
MacCoy: Because the hours are late, it’s 9:00, we ought to break anyway, it
gives us a chance to look at our calendars and see if we can get a special
meeting planned before our meeting up next month, which is not good timing for
trying to bring this into that point of view. So we will be back in ten minutes.
(BREAK)
MacCoy: First thing on my agenda is the fact that we are item three right now
and it’s 9:15, how do we do with this thing? We have decided in the back room
here that we are going to stay on as long as we can get this thing finished tonight
because we are backed up. We’ve already got a plan for you on the next motion
here in the few moments. Our March agenda is already filled and we are
working on April already, we don’t have any other slop time if you want to call it
that.
De Weerd: May I move that we continue the public hearing until a special
meeting held on February 24, at 6:30?
MacCoy: I was just going to give it to Commissioner Nelson. Go ahead, say it.
De Weerd: I just did.
MacCoy: Say it again so everybody hears it.
De Weerd: I move that we continue the public hearing to February 24, at 6:30 to
address this annexation.
MacCoy: That’s all we are going to talk about that night at that meeting?
Borup: At this point.
MacCoy: You’ve got a second?
Nelson: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 40
Borup: Mr. Chairman for clarification for the members of the audience that’s at
the middle school on McMillan, not different middle school?
Donnell: Meridian Middle School, Cherry Lane at 7:00, we will have an arrow
going to wherever place they give us in…
ITEM NO.4: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A DRIVE-THRU KIOSK IN THE PARKING LOT OF
INTERMOUNTAIN OUTDOOR SPORT BY BRUCE A. BENOIT D/B/A
BARISTAS ESPRESSO – 1375 E. FAIRVIEW:
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, this is for an espresso kiosk located
at the Intermountain Outdoor Sports building. The site plan does not indicate all
the uses that are currently on the site as you may be aware. There is an
emissions van that is located on, near the easterly entrance to the facility. As
this is all one parcel of ground, I would like to make as a condition of any
approval and that this condition be tied to both the emissions van and the
espresso kiosk that the prohibited signs that are currently on the site be removed
before any certificate of compliance is issued and prior to any occupancy of the
facility.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, just a clarification on that, are you saying that the
emission signs need to be removed before—you are suggesting that the
emission signs be removed before this project is approved?
Stiles: Yes.
Borup: Does the owner of the property I assume have the ability to do that?
Stiles: I would hope so.
Borup: Me too.
MacCoy: I would think they do. Bruce do you have anything?
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy, members of the commission, there was just one
item that I wanted to touch on, that was item no. 1 in our comments. In the
application, it is stated that the unit would be self-contained. There will be no
hookups to sewer and water. They have, I believe a 50 gallon reservoir for fresh
water, and a 50 gallon reservoir for gray water. I had just requested in my
comments that we would like to get some information as to how they propose
bringing that fresh water in and taking that wastewater away. Also, it was really
hard to read the reduced copies of the plumbing, our plumbing official requested
that they have a larger scale schematic of the plumbing. He’s just concerned
with the backflow protection. That was all I wanted…
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 41
MacCoy: Okay, thank you. Opening up the hearing, will the applicant come
forward please?
BRUCE BENOIT, 802 BACON DRIVE, BOISE, ID.
Benoit: This is an 8 X 8, 64 square foot pre-constructed tubular steel building
that is just brought into the lot, set down. As was mentioned, it doesn’t require
any sewer hookups, any water hookups, I do have a plan, a system for taking—
bringing fresh water in, hauling away the gray water, which is simply mainly water
with coffee in it and a little bit of soap suds. It all goes to sanitary sewer system,
I haul it away myself or one of my employees in a pre-approved truck with a
freshwater tank in one side and gray water on the other. They can't be co-
mingled, it’s all approved by the health department. We have one in operation in
Boise now, so they have seen it all. I have a description and a photo of that
system. I also have some larger plans available to.
MacCoy: Any questions from the commissioners?
Borup: I think that answered the questions, you are saying there is a pump
system to pump the water from the holding tanks to the truck holding tanks?
Benoit: Correct.
Borup: Then you have some full scale plans for the plumbing department?
Benoit: Yes I do.
MacCoy: Any other questions for commissioners? Thank you. Anyone here
who wants to speak in support of this item? All right seeing none, is there
anyone here who would like to speak on the other side of the fence? Seeing
none, I’m going to bring it back to the commissioners then.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move we close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: Discussion?
Rossman: Need a vote.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 42
Borup: We didn’t address the sign issue with the applicant, but we can make
that a condition and leave it up to him and his landlord.
De Weerd: This is isn’t his sign that we are worrying about right? Do we not
have an enforcement officer who can go out and…
Stiles: It’s a long story.
MacCoy: You don’t want to get involved in that.
De Weerd: Sorry I’ve been really good at these loaded questions apparently.
Borup: So you are saying this is the best means to take care of a problem that
hasn’t been solved through normal.
MacCoy: It just underscores something that we’ve been trying to get done.
Borup: We are kind of putting the applicant in a little bit of a bad situation for him
to straighten out someone else’s problem.
MacCoy: It’s going to end up right to the owner anyway, because he has allowed
it to happen.
Borup: I’m assuming the owner would like to rent the space to the kiosk anyway.
De Weerd: Do you have something to add Shari?
Stiles: We can’t issue a certificate of zoning compliance for something that is not
in compliance and that would include the entire site.
De Weerd: Okay, well that clarifies that.
Borup: So we are looking at three conditions and two of the conditions have
been met. The staff comfortable with the plans and the removal of the
wastewater at this point or do you like to reserve to review that?
Freckleton: Commissioner Borup I would like to put that plan in front of the
plumbing official, but I did speak with the Central District Health Department and
they told me that this use has been reviewed and it is an approved use, so I think
that the question comes more to just satisfy the—our plumbing official as to the
backflow prevention and that sort of thing. I really don’t have any problem with it,
I would just like to see that plan.
De Weerd: So are you going to attempt this or shall I?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 43
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we approve this
conditional use permit for a drive-thru kiosk with—subject to review of the
plumbing officials on plumbing system and also subject to the correction removal
of non-complying signs on the subject property. So that include it, anything else
that should be added?
MacCoy: I think you covered it.
De Weerd: It’s been seconded.
MacCoy: It’s been seconded. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO. 5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A STORAGE OF ENTERTAINMENT EQUIPMENT IN A
PORTION OF THE GARAGE AND 2 TRAILERS IN BACKYARD BY ROBIN
WALKER D/BA/ JUKEBOX PARTY EXPRESS—821 E. WILLOWBROOK:
MacCoy: Staff?
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, this application was submitted
primarily due to a continuing enforcement problem that we’ve had. There have
been complaints I would say probably for at least two years about this operation.
The applicant has—the city has litigated this applicant, they are—he did plead
guilty, is up for sentencing I believe next week. The use did not meet any of the
criteria for an accessory use for a home occupation, and without knowing really
where this use would fit in, the closest we could come would be an outdoor
storage facility, but I’m sure there are people here to testify tonight what kind of
conditions have existed out there. Staff does not support approval of this
conditional use permit, it’s not appropriate for a residential subdivision and
believe that the applicant should move his location to a commercial area where it
would not be disruptive to the entire neighborhood.
MacCoy: Bruce, do you have anything? We will open up the public hearing, will
the applicant please come forward?
ROBIN WALKER, 821 E WILLOWBROOK, MERIDIAN, ID.
Walker: We have lived at this property for some time, we were renting the
property, we wasn’t aware that a conditional use permit was required. We were
asked by enforcement to move one of the trailers up to—up close to the house
that it was out sitting too far too close to the street which we did. The property
was still under ownership of someone else and as of November, December of
this last year, we were probably notified probably in August that we needed to
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 44
get a conditional use permit. I explained to the enforcement officer, Joe—I’m not
sure of his last name, that we were in the process of buying the place and that
we were waiting for the paperwork to go through. It was completed in November
and at that time we started putting things in order to apply for a conditional use
permit. The previous owners were not prepared to do any upkeep on the
property, the fence in the back blew down, the fence in the front blew down and
the house had not had a paint job for over ten years I’m sure and of course we
weren’t prepared to put money into the property until we took possession of it.
We did try to block up the fence as best we could without—I mean the posts
were rotted off and so forth, so it was a matter of redoing the whole fence line
and so forth. So we in November took possession of the house, we do apologize
to our neighbors we have a lot of compassion for them and what they had to put
up with for the last few years. Without ownership it was very difficult for us to do
a whole lot of tings to the house. We at that time painted the house, put up a
fence in the front, moved our equipment, we put gravel in the back to give us
more parking place. The trailers that are mentioned are actually two small rides,
one is a swing apparatus—it’s just a swing that is portable. The other trailer is an
orbitron, it’s a different type of a ride. We do a great deal of—we do no
entertaining on the premise. We take our entertainment, we go out and we do a
lot of service type activities. We’ve done activities at a discount for all the
schools in the area. We’ve done over 250 services last year that were done for
alternative entertainment for schools and youth groups and so forth. We have a
business that is very service oriented, it is a great way to keep kids off the street
and to be involved in those things. We do things like Karaoke and Sumo
wrestling and those types of things, none of which do we ever entertain on
premises. We like I say have these two trailers that are rides and that is the only
thing that is parked out side. We do not have any employees, expect those who
go to the sites where we—come to load up equipment and then go out to the
sites where we do party’s and then they will run the equipment there on the site.
I have my children that work for me and that’s probably about 90—myself and my
children are about 95% of the employment force. We do 95% of the work. We
have had one person who came over and worked with us last year, but he was
doing more things for the residence, he helped me put up the fence and helped
me put in a lawn and we put in a lawn and put up a fence along the one side and
we are working on the fence on the other side, so—we’ve painted the house this
last few months, we’ve changed all the carpet in the house. So we’ve done a lot
of things to try and upgrade and get closer to the neighborhood that we live in.
Let’s see, we—I have pictures here of our residence and I’d be glad to let you
look at those, but as far as I can see it looks like most of the homes in the area.
If you will look on the fence side, that’s a front view and a side view of the fence
where we have the gravel area to park the equipment. You’ll see just above the
fence, those are a couple of our—those are the two trailers that I spoke of. They
are pretty much hid behind that fence, except they do protrude slightly over the
fence. I did have a question, what is the maximum height allowed for a fence
around the backyard? Six foot, okay, so the fence is the maximum height there
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 45
and those swings do extend above the fence line, and I know that is not in
compliance and do to the nature, it’s only a swing, I actually have pictures here
of my neighborhood, of other people who have swings in their backyard that
extend above the house and above the fence. I also have pictures of some
people who have satellite dishes which are bigger and more dominant than
either of these rides are. I would also point out that the people living across the
street from us has a business that they run out of their home and the people
directly to the—well kitty corner from us also has a business, I’ve got pictures of
their company vehicles parked in front of their house, with equipment in the back
and the concrete forms along the side. I have pictures of another house just
along the other side, that has (Inaudible) truck and another one that has a black
top coating, so forth and all these vehicles are parked all the way around their
house and certainly the pictures that you see there are much more in compliance
with what I understand the laws to be than any of those properties. So I guess I
still would like to have an understanding, I would also find out that we went door
to door through our neighborhood to talk to our neighbors to see what problems
that they had with it. They said since we had cleaned up and put the fence up
there and so forth, that there was not a problem. They also indicated to us that
many of them are business owners and run their businesses out of their home.
We probably, probably about 40% of the people that you sent out the letter to, or
that we sent the letter to, 40% of those people own businesses out of their
homes and the ones that we discussed, their businesses with them said they had
never filed for a conditional use permit either. Apparently our whole
neighborhood is out of compliance with it.
MacCoy: Is that it?
Walker: Well I really would almost like to have some more specific comments
from staff to let me know what their major concerns are because they mentioned
on the letter they mentioned several things and I real through these and one
talks about do we have any additional traffic or is there adequate parking, the last
time they showed that they viewed that was in June and we’ve of course done all
this work since June. Unless they have updated their records, I don’t think that
they have a full picture of the situation. The other thing that I would mention is
that we don’t do any of the entertaining there, so we don’t have any of our
equipment running, we do have sound systems, but we don’t fire them up and
blow music in the neighborhood. We have a neighbor who has a drum set and
he certainly plays his drum set louder than we ever play our music. I know that
noise isn’t a problem, we don’t have any fumes, there is nothing that we do at
that location except store these two trailers. I also went around the
neighborhood to see some of the other things, we’ve got boats extending above
the fence, we’ve got motor homes parked right up to the curb. Again, if we just
took the employment part of it, we know that 40% would not be in compliance
and if you took the other things that I took pictures of and I would be glad to
share those with you, we would be about 80% not in compliance.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 46
MacCoy: Shari do you want to make any comment right now, or rebuttal?
Stiles: Well, I’ll probably let some of the neighbors make their case, we deal on a
complaint basis. We don’t go around looking for problems. We have had
complaints continually on this operation for at least two years.
Walker: How many different people complained?
Stiles: I couldn’t tell you how many or names.
Walker: So if the same person called 1300 times, you would show 1300
complaints and not 1300 complaints by the same person.
Stiles: People don’t always even give us their names.
Walker: Then my question is correct then?
MacCoy: I think exaggeration, but eventually you would understand the voice.
Okay Shari I will come back to you in a few moments then. Commissioners, any
questions for your side?
De Weerd: Not right now.
Borup: Just one clarification, you said at this point you have no employees? Is
that correct?
Walker: We have no employees outside the family, but when we do take our
equipment to other places, locations, we will have people there…
Borup: Meet you down at the other site?
Walker: Well, yes we also have people who will come periodically and help load
up equipment to take to that site. So they are there for 15-20 minutes helping us
throw in the Sumo wrestling suits or hooking on the orbitron and then we are out
of there.
MacCoy: Is there anybody here who would like to speak in behalf of this
applicant.
BILL CAMPTON, 801 E WILLOWBROOK AVENUE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Campton: I live next door to Robin and Joni. I have lived there for six months
now and I can only speak for that amount of time. I am presently renting, we
have moved back to Idaho after being gone for awhile and are returning home
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 47
after a stay. We have owned our own home in five different places and as a
homeowner I could understand the concerns that would be voiced at a meeting
such as this, but speaking particularly about Joni and Robin, I have found them
to be really good neighbors. They are running a business that is strictly a family
business. They have on the one hand a need to maintain their equipment and
the other hand need to upgrade their property in order to be in compliance with
you folks. They are attempting in all our dealings with them to comply with the
concerns of the neighborhood, because when we first moved in there they came
and said if there was anything that ever bothers you or disturbs you let us know
and we will work on it. They have built the fence with a large swing gate that
covers as much of their property as they can. They have put in the front yard,
they have attempted in every way probably within their financial limitations of
being a business owner to meet the needs and concerns. We have found them
to be genuinely concerned about the overall neighborhood and not having it go
down hill. As Robin said, it’s really hard to keep them straight because he is
Robin and she is Joni, we are learning that after six months, the situation is such
that they are upgrading the property on a continuous basis and that is nice to
see. They’ve come in late at night after working hard, and they do put things
away, but they have never been a disturbance and he has said they do it quietly
and they do. Many other businesses run like he described with trucks and
trailers and things in the front yard. It’s not the only one in the neighborhood. It
is a blue collar neighborhood and functions quite nicely. He is just one of the
many in the neighborhood. I don’t know what has caused the disturbances…
(END OF TAPE)
Compton: …unresponsive to those. So that’s my input for the time that we have
known them. We consider them to be good neighbors.
MacCoy: Any questions for this man?
Borup: Mr. Compton, so you are saying that all the equipment has been stored
in the back, the pictures that we had showed a fence around with no vehicles or
equipment stored in the front yard.
Compton: He has pickup trucks, we all have vehicles, but his major pieces of
equipment that he described to you have been located in the back yard. He did
put in a large swing gate that does cover up and did a very nice job constructing
that with the help of some friends and relatives I would imagine. He is like I say
gradually improving the property now that he is the owner, I would imagine that is
his intent, but I would imagine that the financial constraints of running a business
and doing as the jobs come along mandate when he will do these improvements.
De Weerd: What side of his house do you live on?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 48
Compton: We live on the busy side. We are on the swing gate side.
MacCoy: There was a lady back there that started to come up.
RACHEL WALSH, 705 WILLOWBROOK, MERIDIAN, ID.
Walsh: I’ve been a resident in the neighborhood for 14 years. Basically I
started, I was one of the first houses in the neighborhood. The Walkers have run
their business out of the neighborhood probably four or five years. At first they
did have a lot of it in front, like you said, they were renting. Basically you don’t
upgrade something that you don’t own. Over the last year, the improvements in
the property have been immense. They’ve put—the equipment is all in back.
Their swing isn’t any bigger than my swing, I have kids too. My kids swing set,
their trampoline all of my equipment in the back of my yard can be seen over the
top of my fence. It’s just part of being a family I guess. I don’t see a problem
with the business in the neighborhood, it’s not run out of the neighborhood, they
don’t bring the business to the neighborhood, they take the business from their
home to where it is run.
MacCoy: Any questions for her? All right, thank you very much.
STEVE VIDEEN, 2051 N LARK PLACE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Videen: I live at 2051 North Lark Place, which is just west about a half of a
block and one house up. I’ve lived in the neighborhood about five years or so
and probably a year ago I would be on the other side of the fence, in this
conversation, but he has made tremendous improvements to the house and to
the property and I really don’t have any issues with his equipment because like
he said there are other people that have trailers and boats in their back yard that
stick up just as high as they do and I don’t find them anymore imposing there, so
I think I don’t have any problem with it.
MacCoy: Okay, any questions from you? None, okay thank you very much.
Who is next?
JOHN LONGHURST, 2141 NE 10TH
AVENUE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Longhurst: I’ve known Robin for—how long have you lived there Robin?
Walker: Ten years.
Longhurst: Ten years and I’ve lived at the address I just gave for 13 ½ years and
Robin is a good friend of mine. He obviously is a very hard working person,
owns his own business and a good family man. I consider people like him to be
the backbone of this country and if we run—if we pick at little things like have
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 49
been discussed on this issue and say this person can’t do this, I mean where are
we going to be as a country 50-100 years down the road? There are certainly
issues that need to be addressed, that’s why we have laws, but I don’t
understand why anyone would really seriously object due to the fact that he has
tried to upgrade the problems that have been pointed out to him. Basically it
seems to me he should be allowed to continue to run his business without
harassment from anyone.
MacCoy: Any questions for him? I guess not. Thank you for your time.
Anybody else?
JONI WALKER, 821 E WILLOWBROOK DRIVE, MERIDIAN, ID.
J. Walker: I reside at 821 E. Willowbrook Drive, I’m Robin’s wife. He and I were
married a year and half ago and since I moved into the house, the things that we
have seen as far as updates and upgrades have been to the most capability of
our financial status. I do admire those people who have a perfect yard, who
have the excellent neighborhood, who have an ideal situation in a home and
neighborhood, financially, with the 12 children we have a home business is the
best way we have available to provide for our family. I have no objections to the
fact that businesses are well run in a residence—non-residential area, as far as a
business and business areas go. If you have that capability, the overhead as far
as parking and running a business office out of your home is quite expensive,
financially, if we had that capability we would be more than happy to do it. WE
have met with all the neighbors that we have been able to catch at home
because a lot of them work. We have talked to several of them within the last
couple of weeks. Talking to 8-10 of them just within the last couple of days to
see if they had any concerns, problems or complaints that we could address was
our main goals so that we could try to correct anything that was a problem for
any of them. I have met with one or two that have had the complaints and talked
to them and told them that as our finances were available we would be more
than happy to accommodate anything that would make them happy as far as
anything that is really possible. We have talked about making covers for the
rides so they are not an eye sore as far as color or the item as to how they are
built. We have talked about parking them at a different angle behind the house
so that the advertising that is actually on the truck with is not used at the moment
but is part of the business would not be seen by the public. We have talked
about several different possibilities and have had a few of them remark to the
point that well we will see it when it happens. When it happens may not be
tomorrow or the next day according to our finances. Now, we are more than
willing to accommodate as many of the neighbors as we can and try to make it a
pleasant neighborhood to live in. I’m all for the wonderful neighbors and
everyone that we’ve met and even those that have complaints, I have nothing
against them. We have nothing as a family against them and we hope to be able
to make them friends and everybody happy in the future. As far as small time
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 50
businesses go, a lot of the families that I met with have two or three, or even one
residential businesses. Some had dump trucks running through the
neighborhood, some had diesel trucks running through the neighborhood, some
of the residential vehicles as far as trucks and Volkswagen Bugs and a few
others that have no mufflers are louder than our vehicles that we run in our
business. So as far as noise concerns for our vehicles we don’t have that
problem with our vehicles. Occasional instances where we have to hitch a
vehicle trailer to a track might occur in the roadway where we have to pull it out.
That does take 10-15 minutes to do so and then it’s out of there and we have
apologized to the neighbors for the inconvenience that it has caused and hope
that we can correct it in some way in the near future. We do apologize for any
inconvenience to the neighbors in the past. We’ve tried to improve as much as
we possibly can.
MacCoy: You say you have 12 children?
J. Walker: Yes we do. Probably nosier than our business.
MacCoy: I was wondering if we were talking about the wrong thing here. Any
questions for her? Anymore on the positive side? Okay lets go to the other side
of the fence. That’s not a pun intended either. Anybody here who would like to
speak on the other side? Yes sir.
RANDALL SEELY, 802 E WILLOWBROOK, MERIDIAN, ID.
Seely: I have some pictures that I would like to show if I could tonight just so you
could get a grasp as why I’m opposed to this business. Do we have the
pictures? After I retired from the airforce back in 1986, my family and I moved to
the Treasure Valley trying to find what everybody else looks for and sense of
values, a good place to live, good community. We rented awhile in southwest
Ada County, we rented in Garden City and we ended up in Meridian, which we
love and to us is our home. Being military, I always wanted to give my kids roots
and Meridian is a place that we found gave our children roots. After traveling
with the air force we finally decided to, after looking around the Treasure Valley,
we ended up on east Willowbrook in Meridian, in mid 1989 when we bought our
house at 802. What we weren’t expecting though several years later was the
increasing activity of the Walker business being run from his home, activity which
I have described simply as nothing more than a mini-carnival. An orbitron, an
orbiter, a dunk tank, things like this moving in and out several days and nights
per week, sometimes on the weekends, as well as a pickup truck full of Robo
Surf Board and the Dunk Tank and his Sumo Wrestling attraction as well as the
people that he hirers or has hired in the past to help him run his business. In a
residential neighborhood which is not zoned for business and has never been as
far as I know, otherwise I don’t think I would’ve bought my home there. I take
pride in my yard, my home, the appearance—the overall appearance of the
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 51
neighborhood and the prospect of decreasing property values is the (Inaudible)
concern, as far as I’m concerned. A friend of mine that used to live at 801 E.
Willowbrook across the street sold his house when he moved to Salem, Oregon
and had to take a $2,000 loss on his home. The house right next to mine, east
of mine was for sale and some people had looked at the house and stopped me
while I was in my yard and asked me what the story was with the activity across
the street, which was the Walker house. Speaking for myself and my family we
choose to live in Meridian as I said for it’s quality of life and the prospect of what
it has to offer. It continues to be an outstanding community to call home. If I
wanted to live near a business, I would’ve chosen a busier street like Fairview or
one of the other busy streets. Frankly I’m embarrassed and somewhat perturbed
at times when family and friends come over and compare my street to Garden
City and that’s my apology to Garden City. I’m sure that the Mayor as well as
other public servants such as yourselves wouldn’t tolerate a business such as
this in your neighborhoods, I don’t think it would be allowed in Meridian Greens,
or Summerfield or the Lakes at Cherry Lane. I’m surprised that someone in a
residential neighborhood could be considered for approval to run this type of
business and that’s why I respectfully request that it not be granted. When I
bought my home I had every intention of enjoying a peaceful neighborhood, but
allowing this business to continue to operate as it has will only decrease my
property value and I’m sure the property value of my neighbors. As rapidly as
our city is growing, there are many storage areas and I’m sure alternative sites
that are available for storing entertainment equipment, rather than in the middle
of our quiet neighborhood. I do have some pictures, just a couple of pictures.
These were taken, starting of January of last year, so granted these were
pictures that were taken later on. This was January 1st
of last year, as you can
see. Some of the other people that have testified tonight didn’t have to look out
their window and see this across the street. (Inaudible—blank) not only traffic
coming and going from the property but sometimes, as you can see with the
pickup truck parked in front of the house across the street. So, again I would like
to go on record as saying that I do not begrudge anybody for wanting to make a
living, but I think there is an alternative here, as far as storage of equipment such
as this in my neighborhood. I request respectfully that this not be granted.
MacCoy: Anymore pictures to show here? Or is that it?
Rossman: Can these be held as part of the record.
MacCoy: Yes they are. Before you leave, I would like—two questions for you
myself, the commissioners have a chance too. In your neighborhood it has been
said already here that there is other people that have businesses in their homes
and the comment was made that they didn’t come through this process, they
probably did it off the cuff or are illegal in one sense or another. Have any of
those bothered you?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 52
Seely: No sir, they haven’t. There is a cement contractor living right next door to
me and he doesn’t mix concrete in his driveway or have concrete trucks driving
in and out of his yard. So that doesn’t bother me at all. I’m aware of other
businesses on my street. I have no objection to that, what I object to is the traffic
in and out of the property.
MacCoy: Let me ask the next question to you. I’m sure in every neighborhood
there are people who have RV, sailboats, what have you, extruding over there
fence from their backyard. Do you have any of that in your area?
Seely: In the backyards, yes.
MacCoy: That doesn’t bother you?
Seely: No.
MacCoy: Let me ask you this last question now, you mentioned that these
pictures came from last January or (Inaudible).
Seely: I took pictures through October.
MacCoy: The fact that he has now stood up here and expressed and his
neighbors have expressed the fact that he has cleaned his place up. Is that a
fact?
Seely: That he has cleaned it up? Yes sir it is an improvement over what it has
been.
MacCoy: So you will acknowledge the fact that he has been working on that and
the fact that he has also mentioned and I can understand his viewpoint, he was
renting, it’s hard to do anything to a rental when the owner, which is not here
doesn’t do anything. Now that it is his place, it seems to make a big difference
the fact that he is spending time and money to clean up his house and make it
look like your place probably.
Seely: I’m concerned too, one of the rides was referred to as a swing. To me it
looks like a mini-oil derrick it’s a large ride. The counterbalance on it and
(Inaudible).
MacCoy: If they were to put a cover over that would that be?
Seely: I don’t think so, no. I don’t think I would like that either. I just don’t like
looking at this equipment as it sits on our block.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 53
MacCoy: Let me turn it over to the commissioners, anybody have any other
questions?
Borup: You answered, you asked a couple that I had on the other businesses. It
appears that the pictures are not representative of the last several months of
what the property looks like…
Seely: My personal feelings on that sir are the fact that he hasn’t had a lot of
outdoor activity because of the fall and winter.
Borup: Is there any equipment parked in the front now?
Seely: No sir.
Borup: In the last several months?
Seely: Not that I’ve seen.
Borup: You mentioned that you had no concern about camp trailers and RV’s
parked in the back yard, any concern on front yards? Camp trailers, or cars up
on blocks anything like that?
Seely: As far as I’ve seen we have none of those on our street as far as cars on
blocks. We do have camper trailers, but they have always been parked to the
side.
Borup: (Inaudible). I guess I need to state for the record, I drove down the street
and I saw that camp trailer in the front yard, car up on the blocks with no wheels.
Seely: I’m not familiar with which one you are talking about. It wasn’t mine, so…
Borup: Isn’t that a (Inaudible)…
Seely: I’m not familiar with it.
MacCoy: Any other questions? Okay, thank you. Anyone else out here who
would like to make a—yes come on up. Before you do that you are on the
positive side, I want to try and…I’m going to hold her off for a moment here, is
there anybody who wants to do the other side of the fence, then we will have a
rebuttal.
TROY BROWN, 853 E WILLOWBROOK, MERIDIAN, ID.
Brown: I live immediately to the east side of the house. There isn’t much more I
could say, visually it looks horrible. The only thing I—this equipment doesn’t
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 54
belong stored in a residential area, it could be stored in a public storage area. I
would like to emphasize on the way it devalues the real estate property in there.
We have had our house listed a year ago, or last year and the house did not sell.
We had numerous comments from agents that come and showed and let people
view the home about what was going on next door. It looked like a mini-carnival,
Western Idaho Fair and that was one of the reasons they disliked the property
and believe that it did not sell for that reason. That’s my major concern about
having this business right next door to me. It really does not belong stored right
here in a residential area.
Borup: I certainly understand the concerns if the pictures that we saw here from
a year ago are representative and I assume they were, I’m still interested on your
feelings now. How long has it been since there has been—objects parked in the
front yard.
Brown: I don’t exactly know when they moved everything…
Borup: Since after August.
Brown: I think it was much later than that.
Borup: He’s saying that he started to buy the property in August and had
possession in November or something.
Brown: No, I think it was there was an extra (Inaudible) brought late into the fall
and I think the way it appears now is just, I think just for this meeting here. I
don’t think it’s going to stay that way.
Borup: That’s what I was wondering, is that what you concern is then?
Brown: Yeah, absolutely.
Borup: The way it is right now?
Brown: I don’t believe that its going…
Borup: But the way it is right now you don’t have an objection to?
Brown: Oh yeah I do, I can look over in my backyard and see all that equipment.
(Inaudible) just because you can’t see the front, I live right next door and I can
stand out on my deck and look in the back and see all that equipment. It’s a real
eye sore.
MacCoy: Anybody else on the negative side? All right, do you want to get back
up then for a rebuttal?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 55
J: Walker: When we purchased the house that we did, when we purchased the
home a couple of months ago that we did, we did have a realtor come in and
give us an appraisal of our home and they did see the equipment on the property
and they did value the home as the normal price in the neighborhood as all the
other homes as the same size, square footage, everything with the upgrades that
we have done to the home. Now, at that time, there were very few upgrades
other than the carpet and inside of the house and the paint job on the outside of
the house that we did do. So the value of that home was going strictly on the
house and inside, because the outside had not been grass, or fences started or
clean up done or anything because there was quite a mess two years ago and it
did go into the first part of the year after Robin and I got married because we
were beginning to upgrade as to what we could as residential renters. Now as
far as the value of the home now, it is up to where it normally would be if we were
to put it on the market. The vehicles as far as the rides have not been parked
out in front for at least six months. They have been brought out as various
occasional uses as where they were rented out and they would hook them up
and take them off, if they may be parked in the yard or in the front yard for like
five minutes as far as on the street goes. As far as that goes, we haven’t had
those things parked there for at least six months since the fence has been put
up. Things have been placed in the back to accommodate the neighbors. As far
as them saying that they don’t think it will stay there. Those are the plans to stay
there. We have children that are playing in the yards now, that’s why we
upgraded the yard. That’s why we are putting up the fence and we also have the
very desire that they have to have a very nice home and a business run out of
home so if people do drive by and they know we live there, they know that we
are trying to do a good job and we are what I would say as far as would you hire
us if you looked at our home. This is the image that we are trying to encourage.
We have taken this into consideration and we have taken into consideration the
fact that our neighbors do have recreational vehicles, they do have cars that are
broke down, they do have diesel trucks that they do as a business, they drive or
dump trucks or cement contractors or anything that is such as a home business.
We take into consideration as that and we don’t complain about them because
we know that they are trying. I don’t expect not to have any complaints. We
expect to try and accommodate the complaints, but we have pictures from all the
way around the neighborhood starting at Chief Joseph School all the way down
our street, all the way down the street that ends in a cul-de-sac and back. These
pictures show everyone of them that their driveways, their vehicles, their
recreational vehicles are all just about what you would call normal for a family
living in a residence. If there is a residential person that wants a real uppity type
atmosphere and there are those residencies, there are those areas that have
that. They say they limit their vehicles, two vehicles per residence is all that you
are allowed to park in here and they have strict recommendations and strict rules
that they have to follow and a lot of them even signed papers that say you are
not allowed to have these things in this neighborhood. Where I came from in
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 56
Nevada there was places like that that said we do not accommodate, we will not
have trailers older than a certain year, we will not have trailers in the residential
housing sections. We will not have more than two vehicles parked in an area
and they have strict rules that they abide by. I have not seen any such rules
other than since we have come before the committee and we’ve been told that
these are the regulations that you have to abide by. We are willing to abide by
them. Here are some pictures if you would like to look through them.
MacCoy: Anybody else on this item?
Nelson: I have a question for her, but she didn’t give me a chance.
J. Walker: I’m sorry I’m used to kids running so fast, okay.
Nelson: In all our discussion tonight we haven’t addressed the option of you
storing your equipment in an outside storage off site. I know that RV’s and boats
are a more seasonal thing. Most RV’s that come out of our neighborhood are
pulled out a couple time a month, not a 100 times a year. So why aren’t we—we
haven’t discussed that option.
J. Walker: What option are you talking about?
Nelson: Why aren’t we just addressing the storage of this equipment off site?
J. Walker: Probably because we haven’t really talked to anybody as far as most
the people that we’ve talked to said it isn’t a problem to them. I would like to
have my husband discuss with you our future plans for the business as far as
that goes. We have talked about the options of putting an overhead shed above,
if there was a capability for the zoning there for us to do so. We have also talked
about making covers for these vehicles and planning options for them. That’s as
far as we got because of financially and as far as we were concerned we didn’t
have a reason to have to discuss it or do it, other than up till now. I’ll let Robin
talk to you if you don’t mind. I don’t know all the details as far as…
R. Walker: I guess to answer your question it would be less convenient for us
and of course any additional cost means that we have to pass that on to the
consumer and where we do so many service things that we do school carnivals
and things and we charge such a minimal amount that those expenses would
require us to raise our prices. Just to give you an idea, that orbiter, the swing
we charge a $100 for a school carnival, which we would normally charge $300
and we do that for them, just because they are trying to raise money and trying
to bring the kids into the carnival and that kind of thing. It’s just convenience,
mostly convenience and secondarily the cost.
Nelson: So how many total pieces of equipment are we talking about?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 57
R. Walker: We have three that are outside, that’s the orbiter, the orbitron and the
dunk tank. Those are outside and stored in the backyard. In the garage we
have one half of the garage designated for multiple things such as Karaoke
system that we take out and do shows with or rent out sound system and Sumo
Wrestling, all of it fits in half the garage, so I mean there are multiple items, but
there is nothing else outside visible.
Nelson: Thank you.
MacCoy: Any other questions for him? Okay, thank you. We’ve gone through
both sides of the house now, is there anybody who has one more piece they
want to save before we do something with this? Okay commissioners? Wait a
minute we have one more and this is it.
JOHN LONGHURST, 2141 NE 13TH
AVENUE, MERIDIAN, ID.
Longhurst: I would just like to pose a question to the two gentlemen who feel
very strongly that you know against the business I can appreciate a little bit of
their point of view in some respects, but would you rather have someone living at
that residence who is on welfare, who had no desire to contribute to the
betterment of society or improvement of himself or his family, then Robin.
MacCoy: All right, commissioners, what is your desire?
Borup: I have a little bit of question on—the original application was just a
conditional use permit for storing equipment. The staff remarks got into home
occupation, are we considering both here? Or the original application? Or are
they integral with each other.
Nelson: Isn’t a home occupation and an accessory use?
Stiles: The application they submitted was for storage. They didn’t qualify for an
accessory use for the home occupation, and since they really didn’t fit in any of
the uses in the zoning schedule of use control, we had to ask them to apply for a
conditional use permit.
Borup: Was that basically because no actual business was being conducted on
the site, on the property like other home occupations would normally be? Is that
part of why it is…
Stiles: It didn’t meet any of the criteria for a home occupation as far as they had
employees other than family members, they generated significant traffic, they
had processes used that caused noise and interference and their use of the
property significantly altered the appearance at the residence and the business
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 58
is conducted in a manner which would cause the premises to differ from it’s
residential character. Those were the main reasons that we didn’t feel a home
occupation was appropriate for this use.
Borup: Okay, thank you. Any comments from any of the commissioners?
Nelson: I’ll just state that although it doesn’t seem to be a—that the owner is
here in good faith trying to clean up the site, I’m inclined to just based on the
volume of trips probably in the summer that for the three items it seems like a
fairly simple thing to store off site. Unless I’m convinced otherwise, I wouldn’t
really support the conditional use. It’s your business though and you might have
a better perspective.
Borup: It’s my business?
Nelson: No, I’m just saying in general.
Borup: Oh, you mean the rest of the commission? Well, the one thing that was
a little more unusual about this application I think than a lot that we’ve seen in
the past is—who had six people testify, four of them were in favor. I don’t know if
that’s ever happened in the two years I’ve been here. A year and a half or
whatever. I know that it’s never happened. Two-thirds the neighbors…
Nelson: That would make it easier for me to vote no.
Borup: The picture that was taken last January was scary, it really was. I can
certainly understand everyone’s concern if that was representative of the
property.
RACHAEL WALSH, 705 E WILLOWBROOK, MERIDIAN, ID.
Walsh: This is a family, I don’t know about your guys income level, but I know
about my income level. It’s hard to raise a family on—this is it, the family
business is what they do. Joni has three little kids that I know of that are babies,
two three year old twins, and an eight month old baby. It’s hard to make a living
now a days. I have four kids myself. That’s the bottom line, this is the family
business this is how they make their living.
Borup: Commissioner Chairman, I have a question for staff. You had eluded to
past complaints and even some litigation. (Inaudible) are open in the future
aren’t they? If this property got back into the condition that it was previously?
Same avenues are still open?
Stiles: They are, unfortunately it has taken two years to getting around to getting
something done. I guess my main concern is I wouldn’t want this operating next
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 59
to me. Can you—if you can imagine 250 times a year they are hauling this stuff
in and out. I don’t know anybody who would really want to live next door to that.
Borup: We’ve had four people here tonight that said otherwise.
R. Walker: We might take one item out or two items out, we very seldom and
matter of fact I don’t know that we’ve ever taken every item out on a particular
party or a particular show. So I really don't see the relevance—I find it interesting
that staff would be making comments that…
Borup: I think I could maybe understand staffs, if the pictures are representative
from the past condition, but as your business grows and expands, are you trying
to grow your business? Would you see some time down the road when you got
a little bigger you would be looking at an off site storage?
R. Walker: Certainly, if we do anything else that would require outside storage
we would absolutely, we are going to keep half the garage for the business, but if
we had to increase the size of that or if we had to store something else outside,
yes, we would move it off the premises.
Borup: Thank you. I have nothing else.
De Weerd: I guess I have another question for staff, I know we are used to
home businesses that are occupied out of the home itself, not the property per
say. Do we have any other businesses doing anything similar to this out of their
homes?
Nelson: That have officially told us?
Stiles: Not that I’m aware of.
R. Walker: Astro Jump of Idaho does work out of their home in the same exact
manner, but apparently their neighbors are a little more easy going. They haul
jumps in and out of the house, every weekend, much more than we do.
De Weerd: Yeah, I’ve heard about them.
Borup: Are they in Meridian?
De Weerd: They are in my subdivision.
Nelson: I might make a comment also, I would agree that it’s a family run
business, but also they choose to buy their home in the R-4 zone subdivision,
they could’ve easily bought a home in other parts of the county.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 60
De Weerd: This is R-8.
Nelson: That would require this conditional use. It’s not that we are doing
anything out of the ordinary. I think if they really want to run a business out of
their home, and want to consolidate and not have to pay for outside storage,
there is other neighborhoods that are zoned more appropriately.
De Weerd: But are they really creating more traffic than a home daycare does?
Nelson: No.
Borup: That’s true, a home daycare with six children is going to be six trips a
day.
Nelson: It looks like their household wouldn’t get approved for a home daycare.
Borup: They are full.
(Inaudible)
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I would move that we close the public hearing.
Nelson: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: I need a motion then.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve this conditional use permit for
storage of equipment at 821 E. Willowbrook.
MacCoy: All right, do I hear a second?
Borup: And probably the appropriate condition would be that the property stays
in the same state that it is presently with all the equipment being stored in the
backyard behind the fences facility.
MacCoy: That’s your condition that you are putting on.
De Weerd: And that no additional equipment would be parked back there?
Borup: You want to add that as a condition?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 61
De Weerd: You might get a second if you do.
Borup: Equipment of any size, like they couldn’t?
De Weerd: Well, he mentioned that right now as…
Borup: Any other towing size equipment, any other equipment that you would
have to tow. I would agree with that.
De Weerd: I’m just going on his testimony that anything he would add to his yard
or any more use beyond half a garage he would look at other places. I would
say as is.
Borup: Okay, I would like to add that to my motion.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: I’ve got a motion and a second. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: Borup-aye, De Weerd-aye, Nelson-nay.
MacCoy: The next move that you are going to have, before the City Council.
What we have just said here with all the documentation and the fact that you
heard the vote, that vote also goes forward for their edification and they will
make their decision after—at that time. You have passed in one sense part of
your steps right now through planning and zoning with recommendation. If I
were you, it's a public hearing. So bring your friends.
ITEM NO. 6: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION OF .53 ACRES AND REZONE OF
55.79 ACRES TO I-L BY WILLIAM A. HON -- NORTH OF I-84, SOUTH OF
STATE OF IDAHO LAW ENFORCEMENT FACILITY, WEST OF LOCUST
GROVE RD:
MacCoy: Staff?
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, this is a request for rezone of 55.79
acres from C-G to I-L and an additional annexation request in zoning to I-L of .53
acre. The request was precipitated by the desire of Jabil Circuits to come to
Meridian. We’ve been working with them for several months. We are quite
happy that they’ve selected Meridian as their site. We had the option of trying to
either do a conditional use permit for the project or to rezone the property so it
was an outright permitted use and decided that the best route to go would be to
rezone the property. They have met with staff several times regarding their site
plan. Work out a lot of the issues, they have been working extensively with Ada
County Highway District in regard to the transportation issues. You have our
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 62
comments dates February 5, 1999. There are a couple of ditches on the property
that they would have to request waiver for tiling those. One of the ditches would
be the Hunter Lateral, the other one is a natural drain, I believe the Nine Mile
Creek. One of our—my main concern is that we do enter into a development
agreement, unfortunately we haven’t changed our zoning ordinance to prohibit or
at least require a conditional uses for some kind of scary uses that are currently
permitted outright in that zone. I don’t believe the applicant would have any
problem with entering into that development agreement as far as I know, that’s
about it.
MacCoy: Bruce do you have anything that you would like to add to that?
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy and members of the commission, the only real big
question that I had was in regards to the legal descriptions for annexation and I
believe that during our presentation they probably will address that. Nothing in
addition to her comments.
MacCoy: We will open the public hearing now, will the applicant come forward
and speak to the project?
MIKE BALLANTYNE, 2690 N MILLDEER WAY, MERIDIAN, ID.
Ballantyne: As Shari mentioned this is an application to rezone approximately 56
acres to I-L for use by Jabil Circuit Inc. of Tampa, Florida for a circuit research
and manufacturing facility. I wanted to give you a little bit of background real
quick so you understand the type of use that is going to be going on here. Jabil
Circuits have purchased a section of Hewlett Packard the laser jet FMO if I’m
not…
(END OF TAPE)
Ballantyne: …Jabil Circuit purchased a division of Hewlett Packard’s Boise
operation and operations elsewhere the laser jet FMO. Jabil Circuit will be
performing operations that were done at the Boise Hewlett Packard facility here
in Meridian and it’s real (inaudible) for Meridian to have Jabil. They looked at 15
sites throughout the valley and they are in my mind as a Meridian resident the
pro-typical perfect use, clean, (inaudible) jobs and they are an excellent tax base
obviously. Much better than homes on Willowbrook.
MacCoy: What’s their population going to be?
Ballantyne: I’ll let the representatives of Jabil address that. The vice president
of corporate properties is here as well as the operation manager, the facilities
manager, the civil engineer and the architect, but initially 400 employees is my
understanding. A couple of other comments. The reason we went for the
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 63
industrial use for Jabil industrial application, if they were in the City of Boise or
some of the other cities in the valley, they would have gone in on a technical
application, technical zone, but Meridian’s ordinance does not yet allow for that.
So it’s really a technical use and not an industrial use. We want to make sure
that’s perfectly clear and Shari talked about those scary uses. Certainly Jabil
their facility only requires about 12 to 15 acres. The reason they’re using such a
large site is to ensure those scary uses don’t abut their property and to protect
the values there and in fact one of the things they’re doing is they’re providing
area for the city PAL program to do soccer fields. In fact building the soccer
fields I believe, so I’m not going to take a lot of time. Certainly other individuals
representing the owner and Jabil can speak to any specific technical or other
issues, but I’d be glad to answer any other questions.
MacCoy: All right thank you. Commissioners, anything? Okay we’ll save it to
later.
Ballantyne: I would just make the comment we had no problems with the staff
report.
MacCoy: Thank you. Who’s next on the positive side here?
STAN MCHUTCHINSON.
McHutchinson: I’m with Briggs Engineering in Boise, and I’m the civil engineer
for the applicant. I would like to address staffs comments regarding the legal
description that was provided. I haven’t had a chance yet to meet with staff, but
the .35 acres he’s referring to in the description that was not included in the
original description that was submitted with the application and I’d like to meet
with staff and work that out, and if I can find out exactly what description is
needed, and we can provide that. It’s not a problem. So if there’s any other
technical questions regarding the description.
MacCoy: Staff do you have anything for him?
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy, that would be great. We could get together and
talk about that. It’s just perfect.
MacCoy: Okay thank you. Who’s next?
BILL ANDRE.
ANDRE: I’m corporate properties for Jabil Circuit out of St. Petersburg, Florida,
and I don’t like your weather. Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, Staff, thank you
very much for hearing us. I’m not going to take up much of your time. I think a
lot of the property owners prefer to be heard and I think we should hear them.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 64
Jabil has been meeting with them prior to this meeting and heard some of their
concerns and I would like them to have enough time to do that. I want to assure
you that Jabil takes great pride in the facilities that we put up. We have facilities
worldwide, and I’m lucky enough to do all the traveling to all of those to get them
design to build. Some of those are nice trips. Some aren’t. We put up a very
aesthetically pleasing building. We deal with local architects. In this case we
have a joint venture with a local architect and a Tampa based architect. Jabil
Circuit is out of St. Petersburg, Florida not Tampa, and we do very liberal
landscaping. The chairman of the board of our company is into that. He likes our
facilities to be a show place. One of the reasons we do that is to fit into the
community. The other reason we do that is we have customers that we deal with
that come to our facilities and we want them to think (inaudible). So unless you
have any questions I’d prefer to keep this moving. I’m sure everyone is getting
tired and wants to go home.
MacCoy: Commissioners anything.
Borup: Yes, Mr. Chairman, unless someone else is going to address this, Mr.
Ballantyne said you are only using a small portion of the property. I forgot how
many acres he said. Is that correct? How many acres was it that you’d be
occupying for the building and parking?
ANDRE: I’m not sure. I don’t think we’ve done a calculation, but visually I’d say
less than half, somewhere just shy of half of the property.
Borup: So then the other half was going to be landscaped areas and soccer
field, is that correct.
ANDRE: We’re going to put in a soccer field and parking for the soccer field and
that area would be irrigated and kept maintained by Jabil.
Borup: Then the rest of the property around the building would be greened up
area and landscape and that type of setting? Okay thank you.
MacCoy: Thank you. Who’s next on the positive side of the fence right now? All
right seeing nobody’s hand raising, who is on the other side of the fence and
would like to speak?
DAVE GUNDER, 1180 S. LOCUST GROVE.
Gunder: My name is Dave Gunder, 1180 S. Locust Grove. I’ll be right across the
road from the parking lot. I only have two concerns. What is the .53 acres? My
understanding that’s going to be a road coming out on to Locust Grove. In the
plans that they have that’s what it shows. That’s going to be an access to Locust
Grove.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 65
Freckleton: Do you want me to address that?
MacCoy: Yeah, go ahead.
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy, Commission, the .53 acres was for a I believe it
was like a remnant parcel right up against the interstate. It’s on the southerly
boundary up against the interstate.
Gunder: Well in the plans it shows a road coming out on to Locust Grove. Have
you seen the plans?
Freckleton: That was part of the original annexation. That was in the
annexation. My concern is there’s 400 vehicles coming in there to start with.
Within three years, there’s going to be 1,000 vehicles coming in there. What’s
going to happen to Locust Grove.
MacCoy: It’s been planned in the near future to have the overpass put in and the
highway that you now expect presently will be expanded to five lanes.
Gunder: We heard that five years ago.
MacCoy: Well we have it on the docket for doing it this year with the flying wye
which you read about. It takes four years. They have the money in the pocket or
in the bank. So they put the Overland, the Franklin, the Locust Grove, all our
projects back until the end of the other thing because they said they cannot
afford to tear up anymore streets in the area because we become the area which
is going to take the off load for the flying wye during the four years. So that’s
what you’re faced with. One reason is because of their business coming out
here too.
Gunder: I have no problems with their business, great. It keeps the weeds down
across the road from me.
MacCoy: Yes it will.
Gunder: Now can you tell me when the plan is for Locust Grove and Franklin for
that matter? I mean right now if you go out on Franklin at twenty to eight in the
morning, it will take you twenty minutes to get to the stoplight at Eagle.
MacCoy: It’s going to take you longer because –
Gunder: Well it’s going to take you a long time with 400 more cars coming out of
there.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 66
MacCoy: Well it’s not even that. That’s got to be some of the problem, but the
main thing is that the highway department has decided to off load I-84 to Franklin
and Overland and it’s starting right this week.
Gunder: So we’re going to have to take it.
MacCoy: Yeah.
Gunder: That’s a good answer.
MacCoy: And we have complained. We have gone to meetings up to the top of
the ladder and this is what we’re stuck with because they have said they have
had past experience where they’ve eaten it before and they don’t want to do it
this time since everything is being put on the flying wye.
Gunder: Okay, I’ll go for that. My next question is who is responsible for my
property values going down when that big parking lot is right across the street?
MacCoy: I wouldn’t say it would go down.
Gunder: Oh, it’s going to go down. I’ve already had the Remax come out and
do my property valuation. Who wants to live right across from a parking lot? I
mean the business is great. I have no problem with the business going in there
and if they would have told us last fall it’s easier to sell your fall than it is in the
winter if you don’t want to live there. We ain’t got no choice. They want to break
ground in April and be done by November. We’re stuck with where we’re at.
MacCoy: Well just wait and sit there and hold your property. When it gets all
landscaped and everything you’ll have a place you can sell again.
Gunder: That won’t make no difference. The parking lot is what they say will
make the property value go down.
MacCoy: Well I can’t argue that point with you so I don’t know what to tell you.
Gunder: So who is responsible for the property value? You or them? You’re
going to be the one passing it. Once this is done tonight and you say yeah, okay
we rezone it to light industrial it’s over.
MacCoy: Yes, because they got the property –
Gunder: They got the property. It doesn’t matter if they build there. It’s light
industrial. Anybody can come in and build there.
MacCoy: That’s right. So you might as well be glad that they’re going to build it.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 67
Gunder: I’m glad they’re going to be there. I just want to know who’s
responsible for property values. That’s all.
MacCoy: Well it doesn’t make any difference because if you say the city is
responsible, they’re not going to pay you for it because it’s not their responsibility.
Gunder: You’re saying it’s not the city’s responsibility.
MacCoy: Well we can go ahead and pass the fact they can move in there.
Gunder: Okay, that’s the only questions I want to put in front of you. Thank you.
MacCoy: Anybody else want to get up and speak here on the other side?
RANDY WALTERS, 1080 S. LOCUST GROVE.
Walters: Randy Walters, 1080 S. Locust Grove. So we did meet some of us had
an opportunity to meet with some of the Jabil folks on 2/4 and so we discussed
some of these issues with them and they’ve actually documented some of our
concerns. I personally just had another baby last week and so I have two small
kids and of course across the road from a facility like this is going to destroy the
quality of life and safety. The road that accesses Locust Grove will definitely
impact where my kids can play and so we discussed several issues. Quality of
life, parking lot lights, so we did see a drawing a preliminary drawing and the
parking lot is right there, and so if that’s not bad enough I look out my window
and I have a clear view for a mile well not I see a 36 foot building. I mean it’s just
a big building. I’m sure in the summertime with all those parking lots and I’m
going to see reflections off windows and front windshields etc. The other
gentleman brought up property value. Yeah, that’s going to decrease with the
parking lot across the street from me. No more view. I realize things are
changing and I’ll take the school. I mean the school would be a lot better than
this big building across the street.
De Weerd: Could you have testified earlier for us?
Walters: A school is a plus to a property value in a sense. But this is definitely a
negative and it ruins everything about it. I directly asked both of the people that
we met with from Jabil and I said would you want this across the street from your
house? And they wouldn’t really be happy with it either. I already brought up the
safety issues. I’ve got a two story house so I’m a little better off. I can see
maybe over the roof. Now with the height of that building they suggested, there’s
no way. I’m going to see the side of a building. Of course the lights the parking
lot lights or the lights on the side of the building. I won’t need lights at night.
Right?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 68
MacCoy: Well one of the things we do control out here and will be part of their
requirement is that they have down lights that shield it and we also talk about the
wattage of that light, how high it can be, so we’re looking at your side of the
fence so to speak to make sure that you don’t get glare.
Walters: They only other issues there was a proposed greenbelt. That was one
of the reasons we thought hey, that would be a great area to live. Was there a
greenbelt that was proposed to go on the canal to go all the way through?
MacCoy: Yes.
Walters: And I guess that will be discontinued now?
MacCoy: No it will not.
Walters: No it will not.
MacCoy: In fact we’re now in a committee in Ada County which now includes as
of last month the Canyon County and we’re working towards we have that
greenbelt run from on end of the Ada County clear on through to Canyon County
continuous.
Walters: Somebody had mentioned something about Ada County they
discussed with Ada County about certain highway issues, road issues. Is that
part of the proposed Locust Grove expansion?
MacCoy: You mean the – we have Ten Mile, we have Linder, Meridian, Locust
Grove are all in that same package and they finish upgrading Franklin. They
finished upgrading Overland is all the package. We’re the ones standing in the
wings now because we have been the ones that (inaudible) for so long that we
say hey we’re next in line when everything gets finished around here because
then you’re going to have to put all this together. Now our problem is going to be
that we know that. They’ll be in here tearing things up and we’re going to end up
having a (inaudible) for sometime because we everything else closed up on us.
Walters: Right. So do you have any idea of when that may happen?
MacCoy: We’ve got schedules all ready yeah. I mentioned earlier it’s been
stated by both highway departments that nothing will be done until the four years
of which is going to take to do the flying wye. Now the flying wye you say that
could be six years. Well no it can’t because the contract which has been let has
got a clause in it that every day that that thing continues beyond the agreeable
date is going to cost somebody thousands of dollars per day. And they’re going
to work that project seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 69
Walters: So how do you guys deal with property value decreases and –
Borup: I think the marketplace takes care of that. That’s something we don’t
control.
Walters: But when you put something in like this and pass it, I’m stuck. Like the
gentleman earlier said I can’t sell now because there’s going to be a proposed
building site there. Of course all the construction that goes along with that.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I did have a couple of questions. Maybe one point I want
to just point out, this property is presently zoned C-G which is commercial. Any
other – a lot of the type of businesses that are in there now could come in
without even coming before here. All they would have to do is go in and get a
building permit and you can have half a dozen buildings there on the same site
without any public hearings.
Walters: So I’ve seen them off the road they are actually lower not so bad.
Borup: What I’m saying here, you can have half a dozen businesses there. The
only reason they’re here is because of the technical type usage. I do have a
couple of questions of you on some statements you made. You said the parking
lot was located between the building and Locust Grove. Did they have any type
of landscape buffer or design along Locust Grove?
Walters: They said that hadn’t been clearly discussed at the time.
Borup: But did they have the intention to do that?
Walters: I think it would be something like 75 feet between the parking lot and
the road.
Borup: Oh is that right? We normally have a city ordinance of 20 feet.
MacCoy: Yes you’re getting quite a deal.
Borup: Now the other thing you made – you seem to be objecting to the parking
because you didn’t want the parking lot there. Then it seems you’d rather have
the building closer to the road.
Walters: So I guess I’m getting the worst of – I mean I get the –
Borup: I don’t know. That’s what I’m trying to find out. You contradicted yourself
a couple of times.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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Walters: Both of them are issues to me. I mean I’m looking out my front window
and instead of seeing a view, I’m going to see a building and cars in a parking
lot.
Borup: It sounds like the view is concern. Would it be your preference to have
the building further away?
Walters: If you take that tall of a building, I don’t how far you would have to move
away. I mean you know I’m two stories up. But if you take a 36 foot some odd
building, yeah next to Home Depot, that’s far enough away. That’s a mile away.
MacCoy: If you had wanted to have that view, you had to go across and buy that
land or at least tie it up some place so you can have that view. I live in an area
that when I came here some years ago, I had a beautiful view of the mountains.
I have nothing now because I didn’t buy the land ahead of me and it’s now
buildings that are two and three stories high and I don’t see anything except sky
now if I’m lucky.
Walters: So I was thinking that this was an opportunity to stop that. Or maybe
have a school. Maybe that’s a better proposed place.
Borup: Well the time to stop it was back when the property was annexed
originally.
Walters: There’s a couple of other issues. I’m not going to be the one hogging
the time here.
MacCoy: Any other questions?
Borup: I have nothing else.
MacCoy: Okay thank you. Anyone else wants to get up and make a statement.
PIM HOOGLAND, 1625 BENTLEY.
Hoogland: Pim Hoogland 1625 Bentley. One of my concerns is naturally
property value. Hopefully it goes up. Kind of doubt it. Pretty sure it will go down.
In regards to a soccer field being a staff coach for IYSA since 1978 being
involved in youth soccer since 1972, here in this valley two soccer fields on a
Saturday morning between the hours of 8:00 and 5:00 would bring 702 cars. Do
the math. That’s if both parents are married and they go in one car. Being a
soccer coach I know 90% of the parents are divorced and they each bring their
own car so we can almost double that number. So now we’re talking 1400 cars
on a Saturday morning, and I’m all for soccer, but I think Columbia Village is
great. Send them out to Simplot. The other thing the rezone, I’m a little
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 71
concerned with going from C-G to an industrial. What happens if the yen doesn’t
produce and what happens if the yero becomes worth more than a dollar and
Jabil can’t sell their products so they decide not to build there and all of a sudden
we have a light industrial use which also includes automobile wrecking yards,
bulk storage for flammable liquids or gases, junk yards, leather products,
machine shops, recycling plants, railroad yards and shops.
Borup: Those are the scary things that Shari Stiles was referring to. Those are
the things that we definitely do not want to see there. That’s what she referred to
earlier.
Hoogland: Well how about a variance instead of a rezoning. Give them the one
shot deal. You build here, you stay here and that’s it. Do not rezone.
De Weerd: Can you tie it to an application?
Borup: Well the development agreement handles that, doesn’t it?
Stiles: Yeah, that’s what the comment meant about needing to work with them
on a development agreement so that those were not permitted uses. They
would be strictly prohibited uses in that zone. You can’t grant a variance for a
land use. That’s a possibility.
Borup: So I think what you’re saying then was the development agreement
would prohibit any of those uses. Say the worst did happen and Jabil left and
then maybe an office building or another circuit building or something could go in.
No a school couldn’t without a public hearing either could it?
MacCoy: No.
Borup: It’s not a permitted use. So if any other business came in it would have
to be a similar type business. So all the others would be prohibited.
Hoogland: But there is a difference between C-G and I-L and the type of
businesses that you have.
Stiles: That’s true.
Hoogland: They’re not fitting in to C-G right now. That’s why they’re for a rezone,
is that correct?
Borup: Yes or they wouldn’t be here.
Hoogland: Okay so the scary thing is you know they might not make it. I’ve
seen –
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 72
(Inaudible)
Hoogland: I watched Micron down in Lehi –
(Inaudible)
Hoogland: And then we’re stuck as property owners with a junk yard across the
street.
Borup: No, no. You’re not listening. The development agreement would prohibit
any of those uses of ever taking place there.
Hoogland: Well in the application from Mr. Hon it suggested or it actually stated
that the surrounding development already had light industrial. I haven’t been
able to find any in the surrounding properties right there. Across the freeway, is
that what we’re talking about?
(Inaudible)
Hoogland: I mean it’s all C-G.
Borup: Across the freeway is?
Hoogland: Well no, where he’s proposing, but in his application he had listed
that it was light industrial in the surrounding area. Is across the freeway
considered light industrial? I mean is that consider surrounding?
Borup: Well is across Locust Grove considered residential? Granted it’s a big
street, but it’s across the street.
Hoogland: It’s not a big street.
Borup: (Inaudible) but as far as city – never mind. It’s contingent property as far
as zoning is considered it’s across the street.
MacCoy: I think it’s a moot point in one sense because we’re just entering into
this month with the our Comprehensive Plan revision and we’re looking at
everything in our whole area of Meridian even the impact area. Some things will
change so we’re going to look at it how it is now and what we plan to do where
we want houses and where we want industry and so on so everything are going
to change.
Hoogland: So they get their foot in the door and 50% I believe was going to be
used for the site and the other 50 was going to be landscape and parking lot; is
that correct?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 73
(Inaudible)
Hoogland: Approximately. You know when we look at Hewlett Packard you
know they have 53 acres. Now look at them. Look at the expansion they’ve
had.
MacCoy: All right what happens if they went belly up?
Hoogland: It would be a good place to store a carnival.
MacCoy: They have some nice buildings out there.
Hoogland: You know the expansion, does it stop? I mean does Jabil give us a
site plan to let us know what’s happening? I haven’t seen anything. Do we get
another – do we have suggestions in what’s going to go in and what isn’t or
suggestions to the architect of where to put the parking? You know can they
move within five feet of Home Depot?
MacCoy: Well when you get finished we’ll ask the architect to come here or the
representative to answer that question for you.
Hoogland: And my other concern is that street they’re punching through. I don’t
think it’s on the south side, is it?
(Inaudible)
Hoogland: That would be on the north side not the south. Is it Stratford?
Central? How big a street is that going to be? I mean –
(Inaudible – off the microphone)
Hoogland: I guess I just have a lot of questions and I haven’t seen a site plan,
property values, you know we just purchase the house hoping we won’t take a
big hit on it. But it kind of looks from the people I spoke to that we already are,
and it’s hard to sell it right now so at this point in time I would like to have a lot
more information as to what’s going to happen, what’s going to go on. This is
the first I’ve heard if they don’t get a variance they can’t do the scary things. I
don’t know what quote scary things are. Junk yards, I guess.
Borup: That’s the list you read.
Hoogland: That’s the list I read? Okay, I need to see that documentation. It
wasn’t a public record when to city hall to look that up. That’s all I have at this
time.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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MacCoy: All right. Thank you. Anyone else?
NORM MARCUM, 1140 S. LOCUST GROVE ROAD.
Marcum: My name is Norm Marcum. I live at 1140 S. Locust Grove Road, right
across the road from this parking lot and building. Like everybody else my
concern is property values. I’m retired so the traffic isn’t going to affect me, but it
does affect my wife. She’s still working and my child. She’s still having to go to
school and I have tried several times to get on to Franklin from Locust Grove and
sat there for five to ten minutes waiting for a break to get out right now. Added
traffic they’re going to bring in with their plant it’s just going to make it that much
more difficult. True, you’re telling me now that they’re going to – the flying wye is
going to divert all that traffic over there anyway, so what’s the big deal? We just
wait all day to get out. I don’t what to say that’s going to change anybody’s mind
here. I put my life, my entire savings and that into a house and property and I
built it up and I think I got a nice place. I’m not going to get the money out of it
that it’s worth. As soon as this building goes in and the parking lot goes in. I can
realize that you’re looking at the tax base and this wonderful business going in
there, and that would be great for the community of Meridian and the City of
Meridian. Right now I’m not in the City of Meridian. I’m across the road from it,
so I have to put up with your decision. I’m not a resident of the city. I’m a
resident of the county, and whatever you decide here is going to affect my life
and my livelihood. Thank you.
MacCoy: Okay, anyone else here?
(Inaudible – off the microphone)
MacCoy: You want to come up and say something in public. We’ll tell you about
it up here.
ROGER OSTERHUES, 975 S. LOCUST GROVE.
Osterhues: Roger Osterhues, 975 S. Locust Grove. We own the triangle that
would square off their property.
MacCoy: And your question is about –
Osterhues: We put our objections in writing. It did not get read?
MacCoy: It’s in the file.
Osterhues: But it doesn’t get read at this hearing?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 75
MacCoy: Well it goes into the file which is part of the record for this whole
hearing. So you’ve got yours in writing and signed and everything else.
Osterhues: Okay. That’s all I wanted to know.
MacCoy: Anybody else want to –
Unidentified: I’m actually speaking for somebody. It’s for Jack Martin 1120 S.
Locust Grove and basically his concerns are in the last two months he spent
approximately $35,000 upgrading his house and he’s disappointed because he’s
thinking of losing a lot of money on the property value. And the same things that
I mentioned before, loss of view across the parking lot, depreciation of property,
safety, all those issues.
MacCoy: All right anyone else? Okay I’m going to ask the applicant back up
again. Come on Mike.
Ballantyne: Mike Ballantyne again. Chairman MacCoy, Commissioners,
certainly understand the resident’s concern and empathize. I grew up at the
north end of Five Mile in the County of Ada. It was not yet the City of Boise. I
remember sitting on my mother’s knee at a commission hearing as the Ray
Smelick I believe it was from Hewlett Packard presented the plans to build
Hewlett Packard facility next to my house, so I can really understand where
they’re coming from. I would think that the resident of the Hickories and
DeMeyer’s Centennial and Banbury and the other extremely (inaudible)
subdivision that surround the Hewlett Packard facility would say that the Hewlett
Packard facility has benefited and been good for property values not the
negative. I’m confident and I believe that everyone from Jabil is confident that
their facility will bring value to the property. As far as the limited industrial versus
general commercial. As you all know general commercial allows retail without
any restrictions so that property could have been Home Base, Costco, Edward
Theaters, that type of use, which isn’t what we feel is a consistent use with the
residential neighbors. You all understand I’m sure that the development
agreement will prohibit any of those scary uses and no one can come in if Jabil
was to leave no one could come in and put a wrecking yard or anything on that
property. I wanted to read real quickly four items out of the five year Ada County
Roadway Plan. One is from E. 1st
Street to Eagle Road on Franklin Road widen
road to two to five lanes with curb, gutter, sidewalk and bike lanes. On Locust
Grove Fairview to Franklin realign Locust Grove, widen to three lanes and
improve the railroad crossing. Also Locust Grove Franklin to Overland, widen to
three lanes and then Fairview to Ustick, widen to three lanes with bike lanes and
sidewalk, improve Ustick intersection five lanes with the signal. This is out of the
five year plan for the Ada County Highway District. So the plan is there to work
with the streets. That kind of brings me to E. Central Drive extension. That has
been designated as a collector by the highway district for a number of years.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 76
The reason is they want to create a way of residents and businesses that are
located on or off of Locust Grove to access the freeway in other points without
having to go on Franklin. These residents will be able to get to the freeway
through E. Central Drive, go by Home Depot rather than having to go out to
Franklin and go down to Eagle or down to E. 1st
Street. The owner certainly
supports the use of canal right-of-way and easements for a greenbelt and
certainly would support that. Just referring to that light industrial use, there are a
number of flex buildings which are considered industrial or quasi industrial along
Watertower Lane, Central Drive, and Corporate Drive, and I think that other than
to say Jabil is from St. Petersburg, which I think is a great town a much better
town than Tampa. So that would be it. I’d be glad to answer any questions or
concerns you have and also to allow any other staff or anyone from Jabil to
speak.
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for Mr. Ballantyne. That’s on the subject
of access to the property. You’re saying Central Drive would access –
Ballantyne: But Central Drive is along the northern property line adjacent to the
police academy, the POST academy.
Borup: You say it’s going to continue on through?
Ballantyne: And will connect Locust Grove to Stratford. One thing I failed to
mention is that Stratford Drive will be signalized at Franklin.
Borup: Okay that was my other question then so there will be access from
Central, access from Stratford and access to Locust Grove. So three access
points.
Ballantyne: Right.
Borup: They’re not all going to be bunched at one location.
Ballantyne: Right and there will not be direct access from Corporate or Central
to this Central Drive so people can’t come straight through from E. 1st
Street from
Locust Grove without having to make quite a few turns and that type of thing so it
won’t become a way of avoiding Franklin. That was – ACHD was very strict on
prohibiting that so that you couldn’t shoot right through. They didn’t want to
increase the loads on Locust Grove.
Borup: Okay thank you.
MacCoy: Any other questions for Mike?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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De Weerd: Just on your landscaping the 75 foot landscaping between the road.
I would imagine that’s from the improved road? Or from the current road?
Ballantyne: I’ll have to defer to the architect on that.
Borup: Or from the property line?
Ballantyne: I assume it’s from the property line.
De Weerd: Which would –
Borup: Then your question is would that be the current property – or has the
highway district obtained a right-of-way yet for their expansion?
De Weerd: Right.
Borup: That’s a good question.
De Weerd: And that 75 foot, is that bermed so that they’re not going to see the
parking lot? Will that help buffer the building?
Ballantyne: I should defer that question to the architect.
De Weerd: Well I know not all the building, but – soften the view.
Ballantyne: Bill ANDRE from Jabil will address that two issues. Any other
questions I can answer before I step aside?
MacCoy: Thanks Mike.
Borup: Well maybe Mr. Chairman. How many properties are there that are
joining this property on the west side of Locust Grove? The plat we have
appears – of course the one from – and there’s another that looks like it might be
partially but I’m not sure.
(Inaudible)
Borup: On the west side there’s nothing? That’s what I was going to say. I
thought we just had testimony that there was one gentleman. So there’s one of
the west side.
Ballantyne: Yeah, Central Valley Corporate Park is on the west side.
Borup: Now the gentleman that said earlier that had the written testimony he’s in
that triangle there on the west side of Locust Grove.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 78
Ballantyne: Right, east side of this property.
Borup: So has there been any plans for buffering between his property and the
site?
Ballantyne: Just the 75 foot landscape.
Borup: So that would be along the whole eastern property then?
Ballantyne: I think we actually have a site plan, is that right Bill? I’ll let Bill
address that and also show you the site plan. You know some of the residents
expressed concern wanting to be involved in the process. I’m sure Jabil
encourages any input. They did have a neighborhood meeting. I’m sure the
architect will be glad to give his name out so they can talk to him about any
specific concerns.
Borup: The neighborhood meeting notice was sent to –
Ballantyne: All neighbors within 300 feet I believe.
(Inaudible)
Ballantyne: I can’t confirm or deny the ability of the postal service to deliver, but
as per the ordinance the –
Borup: Looking at the site plan we have here, that’s probably about how many
there would be is five –
Ballantyne: Yeah within the 300 feet.
Borup: Okay thank you.
MacCoy: Okay who is going to follow here?
ANDRE: Bill ANDRE Jabil Circuit St. Petersburg. We’re in the development
stage of architectural drawings and site plans. It will take about four months to
get these drawings to the point where they’re ready to go out to bid. The
meeting that was held with neighbors I don’t know the mechanics of who was
invited or how they got there or anything, but everybody and I don’t care if they’re
within how many feet that would like to speak to us about that we will be having
other meetings. Mr. Scott Ledbetter back here, if you’ll contact him at Jabil here
locally. He’s at the Hewlett Packard campus. He can set up a meeting with the
neighbors and we want and solicit their input. This is a very, very preliminary site
plan. It’s far from finished. But it gives you a general idea of how we’re trying to
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 79
screen and landscape the parking lot from Locust and as I say solicit the input of
the neighbors on this. Nothing is etched in stone on there, not until it goes out
to bid anyway. One of the other things the history of the residential that evolved
and developed around the Hewlett Packard campus is quite interesting. Far
from property values going down they went up considerably. Jabil Circuit is
made up of some very high tech people, a lot of engineering types, a lot of upper
management types that works for us. They draw an exceptionally good salary
and most of people are eventually going to want to live close to where they work
and they’re going to be putting up high end housing and you can almost bet on
that. If they’re anything like me, I like living close to work. I don’t like traveling
too far, but all of the neighbors without exception get in touch with Scott
Ledbetter and he’ll arrange another meeting and as we evolve and have
evolution plans, we can have this as an ongoing discourse. Right before leaving
Florida this morning on a flight that was an hour and a half late, I saw the first
pass at the rendering of what the building is going to look like in elevation. I was
very, very pleased with it. The architect is doing a marvelous job, so probably by
the time the neighbors meet with us again we’ll have some idea of what that
building is going to look like. It’s going to be a show place. Any questions?
MacCoy: I guess not. Thank you very much. Mike, do you have anyone else
you want to set up here?
De Weerd: You know I do have a comment. Staff is very sensitive to the
buffering and berming, and they’re going to be involved in approving this and so I
can say Shari Stiles is probably your best champion in making sure that berm is
going to be adequate to kind of soften the building and also to maybe hide that
parking lot as much as possible, but you know we as a city can only recommend
a certain amount of buffering, and you’re getting 75 feet.
(Inaudible)
De Weerd: Is that 75 feet Shari? I was just believing what I was told. You guys
told me.
Osterhues: Roger, 975 S. Locust Grove. I just had a question in the future are
we allowed to rezone our property being that piece of pie that’s kind of
surrounded by industrial?
De Weerd: You’re in the county.
Osterhues: Yeah. Are the options stopped? Are we stuck as we are? Or can
we rezone? You know a Quickie mart or a Circle K or a gas station.
MacCoy: Yeah, that’s all we need.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 80
De Weerd: I don’t know what our comprehensive plan says about your particular
area but –
Osterhues: Well I heard we will be stuck as we were or are as we are now.
MacCoy: Well people have so I want to say if you want to come in and apply for
it –
Osterhues: But there is that option?
MacCoy: Has been so far.
Osterhues: That’s all I have.
MacCoy: Is there any other questions? If not Commissioners, what are you up
to?
Nelson: Well I’m not sure how much of the audience has access to our zoning
chart, but if I’m reading this right although I feel their pain I think you almost have
a better chance getting one commercial developer in one setting to work with you
on a good buffered system than what could come in here without ever talking to
you. For instance it looks like you could build car washes, gas stations, --
Borup: Bus stations.
Nelson: If I were the homeowner looking at this site, I would be more concerned
about the status quo than I would the change. About my property values. I think
you’re unknown could potentially be worse than this known and –
(Inaudible – off the microphone)
Nelson: Well right now it’s already zoned general commercial and we can’t really
change that and a lot of businesses could come in and build without coming to
Planning and Zoning. They can just request a building permit if it’s an approved
use. Some of those on that list may be worse than what we’re looking at. I just
think you might want to take a look at not rezoning it what could potentially go
there. Especially with Home Base going up over there what’s going to spawn.
Borup: Maybe to expound upon what Commissioner Nelson said, what he’s
saying is that certain businesses that are permitted use in there. They just go
and get a building permit and build a business like printing, a motel, hotels,
indoor and outdoor entertainment centers, department stores, a bus station.
Those types of businesses are already permitted and the annexation and zoning
took place years back. There could be – you could have any number of those
businesses on a piece of property this size. I think what Commissioner Nelson is
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 81
saying you’ve got one single owner here that’s making an effort to use a small
portion of the property that they would be allowed to use and making an effort to
work with neighbors to take care of the buffering and the other option may be like
I say half a dozen businesses that you have no control or no input or anything
(End of Tape)
De Weerd: Yes, sir. Can you wait for just a second. Shari, can you tell me
where the residents are along on that map? No, I’m just talking about –
Unidentified: I’m right here. Mr. Gunder is right here.
De Weerd: That’s where the five lots are then along that side?
Unidentified: Here down to here. All along here on this side and then Roger and
Lynn live right here in this triangle.
De Weerd: And Shari what is the landscaping then in that area?
Stiles: The landscaping varies in here from anywhere from 40 feet to in this area
is 150 feet. Some of this landscaping would be reduced because of the future
widening of the road. This would be a five lane road at some point.
De Weerd: So it isn’t from the proposed improvements right away, which means
how much of it will be eaten up?
Stiles: Right here on this part?
De Weerd: Right so what would that reduce that down to?
Stiles: It will reduce this section right here to 40 feet from the future right-of-way.
You also have to consider though that there is the Hunter Lateral here that
unless it’s tiled it will just – if Council gives them a waiver for tiling that ditch it
would be some of that would be taken up with just the ditch.
(Inaudible)
De Weerd: What lateral was the pathway system suppose to go on Mr.
Chairman?
MacCoy: Without having the map in front of me, I couldn’t tell you. We look at
all the way through the entire county and it zigzags through the system.
Nelson: I have one more comment real quick to finish my train of thought. I
would be curious whether from a traffic standpoint if other commercial uses went
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 82
in there that had business hours and they attracted retail customers throughout
the day or if any shift work facility that has more of a static parking lot use –
(Inaudible)
Nelson: That’s my point.
(Inaudible)
Nelson: So anyway my point being that from a vehicle trip standpoint would this
generally be less vehicle trips per day than say several more retail type stores
that actually attract retail use as a general discussion.
MacCoy: That’s a general statement too because you can take the stores that
would answer that question for you or you could pick the stores that have less.
Nelson: I just don’t think that – I think the traffic may be also less than some of
the alternatives. Anyway I’m done.
MacCoy: It’s up to you now. You’re up to the podium.
Unidentified: I have not been unhappy with Jabil. They’ve been very
cooperative and the people have been trying to work with us to the point they
can. They didn’t have all the knowledge and I’m sure they’re going to try to build
as beautiful a place as they can. But still we’re facing the fact that we’re told by
realtors that our property is going to go down in value. There’s not much I can
about that and the stupid statement you made of buying the property, I’m a poor
working stiff. I can’t come up with the kind of money to the 55 acres across the
street from me. If I could I would have bought it a long time ago. I was lucky to
come up with the money to buy one acre that I built my house on and tried to
make it as beautiful and nice to live in as I possibly could. I put a lot of money
and time and labor into landscaping and beautifying my place and I hate to see
that lost.
MacCoy: Well Commissioner Nelson raises and so did Commissioner Borup
down here that you keep mentioning that we had the same thing and we talked
about the big complex that went in at Fairview and Eagle and we had another
one go some place else and they always come in and say well the real estate
people say my lot is going to go down. I did a lot of research on some of this
stuff and your lot will if you hold it for a period of time say three to five years, it’s
going right on up and you heard the gentleman here from Jabil say that you look
at the employee is going to live there. He wants to live close too and that’s what
happened up at Hewlett Packard. Places up there, they said the same thing,
their property was going down. Try to buy one up there now.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 83
Unidentified: I worked that area as police officer for 15 years and I know and
most of that was not even built when Hewlett Packard built. Most of that has
been built since.
MacCoy: That’s right. That’s what he’s saying here too.
Unidentified: It does not actually – it may abut their property, but it’s not out there
on Chinden where the traffic is. It’s back in off of McMillian and Cloverdale.
MacCoy: I think you’ll find out that in time it does the reverse situation. It may
drop at the present moment, but –
Unidentified: I hope you’re right.
MacCoy: I think from what I’ve done for studies in the last year, I know it’s right.
Unidentified: You know I haven’t personally contacted a realtor to find out. I’m
just listening to other people. I appreciate your time.
MacCoy: Okay. Anybody want to make one more statement? We got to get this
thing closed. We got some more tonight. We’re usually here until 2:00 in the
morning.
Unidentified: I just want make a comment. There was a comment made in
regards to – I work at Hewlett Packard. I’ve been there for 20 years so in
regards to houses that are abutted to the property, first of all they weren’t there
and the houses do look the opposite direction so they don’t have to look at the
building. They’re all posed in the opposite direction so they don’t look at that
building.
MacCoy: Well that may be the case for that particular section.
Unidentified: And for the Five Mile location where that other house was, that’s
more than a half mile a way from that. I mean –
(Inaudible)
Unidentified: It abuts the property half mile away from the actual building site
though. Because I was in facilities like the other person here Scott and I know
those dimensions and I realize there’s some planning and zoning with some
other buildings that did get built later on. But I just want to make sure that
everybody knows that they’re not looking directly at it. I mean it’s a lot different if
you’re looking the opposite direction. I mean if I was looking at Bogus Basin
direction, it might not be so bad, but I am looking directly at it. So I look out my
picture window and that’s what I see.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 84
MacCoy: Maybe you can sell it to somebody who wants to see that view. All
right. Commissioners are you ready to take this to a motion?
De Weerd: Well I would be interested from Shari and then I know Bruce has a
comment, but what on that landscaping and wanting to berm that so the
residents have some relieve from the parking lot, what would be a minimum that
you would suggest to require?
Borup: Are you talking a minimum of berm height or a minimum amount of
landscaping?
De Weerd: A minimum in width and perhaps height.
Stiles: I guess I would suggest a minimum four to six feet. They are going to run
into some problems there with the Hunter Lateral. If it is tiled the irrigation district
will not allow more than three foot of cover over the pipe. And there will be no
trees allowed in that easement.
De Weerd: Are they assuming in this drawing that they are using that
easement?
Stiles: They are not. They are showing it as green space, but they are not
showing any trees within that easement because I don’t believe Nampa Meridian
would let them do that.
De Weerd: Then within that easement then they can start grading it up from
there from the minimum three feet that the irrigation –
Stiles: If they got a license agreement with Nampa Meridian to allow them to do
that.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: Well I think I’m not even considering that right now. I’m trying to get
Commissioner De Weerd and our staff worked out. What he’s doing right now is
not part of this. That’s something that we can address later on.
De Weerd: Well no I feel that it should be a condition. It’s a concern of the
residents and where we can provide some –
MacCoy: I think it’s just depending on the fact that we’re going to have to do
what’s because they’re not far enough along in the design anyway to tell us
exactly what they’re going to have.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 85
De Weerd: This will give them our expectations.
MacCoy: Well I have different expectations that looking at that to what I’m going
to end up doing when I look at it anyway. If they can only get three feet, maybe
we want more. I hate to end up doing less when we couldn’t get more or having
to say more and we can’t make it.
Borup: Maybe while we’re waiting just a comment for thought and I wanted to
ask the same thing I think Commissioner Nelson was eluding to you may want to
think about is again would you rather have a single occupant on here with a
landscaped area or half a dozen different business. You might ask the real
estate agents the same question on property values which they feel would be the
most detriment. Other types of retail businesses with traffic all day long, that
type of thing or a single use business. It sounds like Shari is ready to answer.
Stiles: It’s real difficult to answer without – I mean this isn’t a design review. It’s
a request for a rezone. Staff wouldn’t be concerned about the crown of the road
and the height of the berm above the crown of the road. You’re going to have a
five lane roadway there. It doesn’t make much difference how high the berm is
above that roadway. What is going to make a difference is how high the berm is
above the surface of the parking lot where you’re going to have headlights and
the impact from those headlights and I think the four to six feet above the level of
that parking lot is going to be more the adequate to buffer the adjacent
residential from that impact.
MacCoy: She’s right.
De Weerd: Are we going to have a site design review then? Is that what you’re
saying?
Stiles: The reason the applicant has requested this rezone is so they can have
the entitlement of that rezone to permit this use. The zoning ordinance does not
allow as a permitted use or as a conditional use for whatever reason this type of
facility. Even though in the – we have Computrol in a C-G zone, but that entire
development was done as a planned development and they had requested those
uses when they came in. They could have done the conditional use that would
show the full site plan, all the elevations everything else, but they chose to ask
for a rezone and that was suggested not only by our legal counsel, but agreed to
by staff so that they did not have to go through two separate processes to get the
thing started. They’re going to have extensive requirements with Ada County
Highway District. I know Stan had mentioned earlier that they had a 28 foot
roadway. It will be a collector road. It will have more than a 28 foot roadway that
will eventually go through to Locust Grove, but there are also other uses that are
going to come before this body on the remainder of that property at some point.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 86
De Weerd: But as far as the berm goes between Jabil and the residents, will
they have a chance for input on that?
Stiles: No, not necessarily no.
De Weerd: So if we don’t build any minimums in here, it’s just in whose hands?
Borup: Can that be included in the development agreement?
Stiles: Sure.
MacCoy: I don’t see why not. We’re getting ourselves off track here. We got to
get out of this place eventually.
Stiles: You can as a condition of the rezone, you can put all kinds of stipulations
on that if you choose.
MacCoy: That’s right. We’ve just been doing it here in the past months here on
jobs.
Borup: Okay so we can do some things that would address some of the
neighbors’ concerns.
MacCoy: That’s right.
De Weerd: That’s what I am getting at.
Borup: So the answer is yes.
De Weerd: That’s what I’m trying to determine. What kind of conditions we want
to put on.
Borup: Whatever we want.
De Weerd: A minimum of the four to six foot height on the berm from the parking
lot and width.
Borup: Well you go that high. You can’t get four to six feet in ten foot.
MacCoy: No you can’t. You’re right.
Borup: So that automatically then means you’re going to have –
De Weerd: They say a minimum of 40 feet once they improve the road then.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 87
Borup: I think there’s some question on how much you really have there along
the canal because that’s already a buffer. That’s already a nature buffer and you
may not have as much room there depending on whether Nampa Meridian and
encroachment agreement.
De Weerd: Steve, do you have anything you would like to add?
Unidentified: I would think that a four to five foot high berm with a minimum width
of 25 feet in addition to the right-of-way for the canal since that cannot be
landscaped or bermed would be adequate.
De Weerd: Thank you.
MacCoy: Are you ready to come up with –
De Weerd: I think Bruce had perhaps – did you have anything more to add?
Okay.
MacCoy: I want to get the issue finished of what we’re actually suppose to be
finishing here.
De Weerd: Well I would move that we close the public hearing.
(Inaudible)
De Weerd: I can withdraw that.
MacCoy: Okay.
De Weerd: I don’t have a second anyway.
MacCoy: You’re going to be the end. We got to get out of this place tonight.
We’re going to be here until 2:00 in the morning.
SID BLACK 1000 S. LOCUST GROVE
Black: My name is Sid Black and I’m at 1000 S. Locust Grove and I basically
was too afraid to get up before but I feel like after the neighbors have talked I
really need to express my concern. It sounds like it’s a done deal. I would have
liked to have been included in the invitation to discuss this when it first came
about. I wasn’t (inaudible)
De Weerd: Can you speak into the mike?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 88
Black: I wasn’t one of the ones that was lucky enough to get an invitation, but it
sounds like it is a done deal and I would just say that a lot of these people have
invested what they have and don’t have any more so that and I appreciate your
efforts here and I would appreciate just taking your consideration with any
decisions that are made to help the home owners. My street will be the one
where the driveway comes through. All the traffic will come out. So I’m affected
as well but I think I’m more touched by the people my neighbors that have
spoken here so thanks for giving me a chance to say something.
Borup: Mr. Chairman I would like to ask her a question.
MacCoy: All right.
Borup: And it’s the same question I’ve wanted to ask some of the other
neighbors, but I assume you realize that something was going to go there some
day. Some type of commercial business or was that something you were not
aware of.
Black: No, I have to be real honest on a personal level I’ve dealt with personal
tragedy so I haven’t really had a – I hadn’t thought too much about it.
Borup: Okay I mean the property has been zoned for a number of years for
commercial usage, so something was going to happen. And I think that –
Black: And I appreciate that.
Borup: And I think what we hope to do is make something that’s going to be the
best for the neighborhood.
Black: I hope that happens. That’s basically what I’m saying. It sounds like it is
a done deal.
Borup: Whether if this was denied something else is going to go there only they
won’t even be here. Nobody would get any input would be the difference.
Black: Thank you.
MacCoy: And just one more for you that’s what this commission is all about is to
see to it that the citizens get the best shake we can from the development going
in and that’s to do with landscaping and lighting and access and all of those
things even to the point of the coloring of the building and the roof of the building
and so on. We look to see for a good architectural piece. That’s what you got to
face.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 89
Black: Could I ask just one more question? Was this already approved before
tonight? Or did anything of what we say make a difference?
MacCoy: This is the first time.
Nelson: And I’ve commented –
Black: Is Mr. Hon here? No.
MacCoy: Commissioner Nelson wanted to answer you here.
Black: But the decision is going to be made now. It wasn’t made before we got
here?
Nelson: That’s correct.
Black: Oh, that’s good to know.
Nelson: And we hadn’t seen the applicant before and from experience the way
I’ve looked at a lot of these developments today than I did a year and a half ago,
after I’ve seen a lot of things come through P & Z when we’re up here saying that
this could be better than the unknown it’s mostly because we’ve dealt with it.
We’re not trying to just to drop this in the bucket and get some tax revenue.
That’s not what we’re here for.
Black: I appreciate that, and as far as the time goes, we sat through all the other
hearings and I would have sat here all night for any one of the other people that
were here. Thanks.
MacCoy: All right. Staff do you have anything else to add to our position right
now? If not Commissioners, we’re back to you. Commissioner De Weerd you
had started on something.
Nelson: I’d like to make a motion that we close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: Okay what’s your motion now?
De Weerd: My inclination is to do a speech but I’m not going to. So I won’t.
Your comments do make a difference and if no one was here that looks like a
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 90
nice design and we wouldn’t concern ourselves with what buffer this business
between your residents and the new business coming in so it does make a
difference and we’re trying to be conscientious to make sure that your concerns
are somehow reflected in what’s designed there. So we need to be fair on both
sides of it as well.
(Inaudible)
De Weerd: I’m glad to see the cooperation between both parties.
Nelson: Do we have some bullet items we’d like to list that we’d like staff to take
care in the development agreement?
De Weerd: Well of course my interest is in that berm that would abut the
properties and the concerns of the residents here that you have the four to six
foot berm where it can be I guess it should be stated maybe three to six foot
berm and that it be 25 feet in addition to the canal easement and I guess that
would cover my concerns and the development agreement be required.
MacCoy: That’s good. Okay what else?
Borup: That was the main concern I think I had. A lot of the other issues lighting
and that kind of thing are already city ordinances. Staff covers that very explicitly
and I don’t think there’s a concern on a lot of the other things that could be a
problem.
De Weerd: Well and that development agreement would restrict the use to
anything other than what we’re approving. Correct?
Stiles: I wasn’t proposing that it would limit it to strictly this one use because they
do have the other property. I mean developed, but the –
De Weerd: The scary things.
Stiles: Yeah. Asphalt and concrete and –
De Weerd: Perhaps that scary thing can be defined. It will be defined in the
development agreement.
Stiles: Yes and the development agreement will be approved by City Council
and it will a public record. It will be a recorded document prior – it will be prior to
the actual rezone taking place.
Borup: So is the policy for the development agreement to list the restricted uses
or to list the approved uses?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 91
MacCoy: List the approved uses. We just did it last month.
Borup: Or can it go either way?
Stiles: It can go either way.
MacCoy: You strike out the ones you don’t want.
Borup: And then everything else is listed in the approved zoning would be
approved. Okay.
De Weerd: I have nothing further.
MacCoy: Okay I need a motion in here.
De Weerd: Okay.
(Inaudible)
Rossman: Sir the public hearing has been closed.
De Weerd: Shari would I need to go line by line on what we’re recommending
should not be allowed?
Borup: Or do you have a preliminary recommendation at this point? Or would
that be covered at the public hearing at the City Council?
MacCoy: That’s where it’s covered. That’s where they had that last one. We did
ours and then they did it from there.
Borup: Yeah all we can do is make recommendations.
Stiles: We could have additional staff comments available for the City Council
should you choose to recommend approval and send this on it would go to City
Council for another public hearing on March 16th
.
Nelson: And at that time these people could get access to that agreement prior
to the public hearing; is that correct?
Stiles: Possibly if we have it completed by then. I’ll have to work with the city
attorney.
De Weerd: Mr. City Attorney is that a possibility? Is that doable? That you will
work with –
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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Rossman: Mr. Gigray will work with Shari Stiles to prepare a development
agreement.
De Weerd: Okay, so I do not need to specify this in my motion Mr. Attorney.
Rossman: My recommendation is that you specify the development agreement
in your motion.
De Weerd: Okay yeah but not the specific scary things not to include?
Rossman: My recommendation is that you put into your motion what you want to
recommend to the City Council that they do and if that includes the particular
items of any extraordinary items in the development agreement then you should
identify them.
Borup: Shari would this be similar to the items listed in the subdivision to the
south here? The one off Franklin? Barnes’ subdivision, I forgot the name of it.
Stonebridge. Didn’t have that similar things? There were some specific items in
there that was not allowed.
Stiles: That’s right. They chose to specifically exclude some of the uses that are
permitted in that zone.
MacCoy: We did the same thing last month or this month with the one up on
Eagle the Engineering Office, Hubble.
Borup: I think the neighbors should feel comfortable that the City doesn’t want
objectionable uses in an area like that, and they’re going to be very careful to
make sure those are not included.
De Weerd: Can this list be available to them before the next public hearing?
Stiles: Our recommendations could be made available to them sure.
De Weerd: Okay thank you. Well I move that we approve the annexation of .53
acres and rezone of 55.79 acres with the following conditions that the berm –
Borup: Rezone from what to what?
De Weerd: Oh, I’m sorry. From C-G to I-L and that that would include conditions
requiring a development agreement that the berming along the Locust Grove
side abutting the adjacent neighbors would be three to six foot high in height and
25 feet in addition to the canal easement.
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PAGE 93
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: Okay. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MacCoy: That takes care of that. We’re going to adjourn for ten minutes.
ITEM NO. 7: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A SIX LOT SUBDIVISION CONTAINING TWO DUPLEXES AND
FOUR 4-PLEX UNITS FOR PROPOSED MERIDIAN ACRES SUBDIVISION BY
MIKE STIPA – NORTH OF BROADWAY, SOUTH OF PINE AVENUE, WEST
OF WEST 4TH STREET:
MacCoy: Okay let’s reconvene here. It’s now midnight and we’re only halfway
through our agenda, so we’re going to be here for a while. Staff what do you
got? Shari, do you want us to come back to you or what?
Stiles: Chairman McCoy, Commissioners, this is for an infill project that’s located
at the end of Idaho Avenue. It is zoned R-15. It permits with a conditional use
permit the apartments that they have proposed. They’re showing a 60 foot
roadway which is the existing right-of-way I believe through there. Ada County
Highway District I think in their comments said they could taper that back down to
the 50 foot right-of-way which will allow them to have some additional
landscaping. It looks like they’re a little shy on some of their widths maybe not.
Borup: I don’t think it shows any landscaping width. Isn’t that just an easement?
Stiles: Well I don’t see a landscape plans that’s been proposed as part of this
application. That would need to be approved as part of this application. They
would need to have a minimum of 4 feet of landscaping between the right-of-way
and any parking area. They do not have direct access to either Pine or
Broadway at this time. The property has been split up extensively in this area,
but they’re proposing the – they’re going to have garages and with the garages
and the driveways should be able to have more than adequate parking to meet
the ordinance requirements. I didn’t specifically check the lot sizes, but in my
pre-application meetings with the applicant’s engineer surveyor we detailed
those requirements. I believe Bruce probably has some comments about sewer
and water issues.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission as far as existing
services to the site, sewer is going to have to come in from Pine Street. You can
see on the plan they have a ten foot wide ingress/egress easement that comes
in from Pine Street into the site. That’s where the sewer would have to traverse.
I’ve talked with Colleen Marks about the need for a 20 foot wide easement for
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 94
that utility going through there. She didn’t see a problem with that. Water is
existing in Idaho Street. It would have to be extended on to the west. That kind
of takes care of sewer and water. The applicant is probably going to be talking
about the pressurized irrigation situation and we’ll let him make that presentation
and if there are any questions I can follow up with that.
MICHAEL STIPA
Stipa: My name is Michael Stipa. I’m the owner of the property on the agenda.
I’d like to address –
MacCoy: Just a minute here. I’ve got to publicly open the public hearing so you
start this thing and it’s all legal. Okay we open the public hearing now and you’re
the applicant. Now you can go on from there.
Stipa: Michael Stipa and I’d like to address my comments toward 7 and 8 at the
same time.
MacCoy: Go right ahead.
Stipa: And I’ll keep them as brief as possible being that it’s quite late. The
project name is Meridian Acres and as the staff mentioned it’s located at the end
of Idaho between what would be 4th
and 5th
if it were to run through. It is zoned
R-15 and our proposal is for four 4-plex lots and two duplex lots which is
consistent with the buildings in the surrounding area. The plat and Shari I think
there should be landscaping plan in that.
Stiles: I’m not sure that I got the entire packet for this project.
Stipa: Basically this is a plat. This is Idaho Street through the center which
would be continued on and then private lanes running north and south off of
Idaho. The green is the landscape area around each unit. The white represents
the building (inaudible) and I have a copy of this here Shari if you don’t. I believe
I do. To go on we would buffer the property with the required fencing and
between the lots. The private lanes themselves are 25 feet width exceeding the
code which is 20 feet. The site itself is very similar to the Seabury Subdivision
which was presented here last month in January’s meeting by Becky from Briggs
Engineering. As a matter of fact the layout is virtually identical and that – mine
came out this way. I’ve been bothering the staff for about a year on this project
trying to get all the bases covered, but they are very similar in design. As you
can see by the – there is plenty of parking as you can see by the layout. The
cars can ingress and egress forward into Idaho into the traffic zones. I intend to
put higher end units there. The rentals themselves are garaged. The four-
plexes each have a garage. The duplexes have two car garages. Here’s a
sample of the elevations which could vary too. (Inaudible) could be added and
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 95
some (inaudible) this type of thing. But the upper one is a four-plex and the
lower one is a duplex. They both have a garage as I indicated. One issue which
came up with Seabury also was the pressurized irrigation, and I met Mr. Bill
Hensen from Nampa Meridian Irrigation out there. He sent me a letter and the
gist of it is that the property is below the point of delivery of Nampa Meridian’s
water source and they can’t guarantee water. I talked to Bruce about this today
and done some quick calculations on landscaped areas and they averaged
between four and five thousand square feet per lot so that’s an issue I guess
primarily for City Council. I don’t know, but Bruce suggested that I bring this up.
Because it is something that has to be resolved. That’s about it. If I can answer
any questions, I’ll try to.
Borup: I have none for Mr. Stipa. I had one for Bruce.
MacCoy: Okay you can sit down then we can ask one for Bruce.
Borup: Mr. Freckleton question on sewer and water. You had addressed that
earlier and said an applicant show that sewer needs to come from Pine. I was
concerned about the property to the west and also the water department’s
comment on tying the two mains together. They look like down at the – probably
close at the Seabury property and so isn’t there still a section of land in between
these two projects?
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman Commissioner Borup, Seabury I’m going from memory
here, but it seems to me like it sewers back to the west with an existing main in
Idaho.
Borup: That’s what you stated last time.
Freckleton: Yeah. That main I believe is deep enough to adequately serve the
parcel that is west of this proposed development. Eventually yeah I’d like to see
those water mains tied through to Seabury through that future that parcel that’s
between them.
Borup: But at this point the applicant has no control over that other parcel.
Freckleton: Correct.
Borup: Both this and Seabury will be bringing the water lines to their boundaries
though; is that correct?
Freckleton: That’s correct. We’re growing together.
Borup: Okay. That was all I had. Unless you had –
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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Freckleton: Just maybe a point of clarification on the pressurized irrigation.
Borup: Oh yes that was another question I had.
Freckleton: I did get a copy of the letter that he’s referring to from Nampa
Meridian. Our permits with Water Resources don’t allow us to water areas larger
than a half acre. That was why I had asked him to prepare some calculations as
to what his square footage of landscaping would be.
Borup: Half acre per subdivision or per what?
Freckleton: A half acre over all yeah. For like this development we couldn’t
water more than a half acre of open space.
Borup: It doesn’t make any difference what the size of the development is. What
if he just developing on the south side of the street?
Freckleton: The same requirement.
Borup: Same requirement. Or if it was a 50 acre subdivision it would be the
same requirement a half acre.
Freckleton: Right.
Borup: Okay that’s something new to me. I’m just trying to learn.
Freckleton: So what I suggested he do is request the waiver for the pressurized
irrigation system at Council level. If we don’t have water to the site via Nampa
Meridian Irrigation District and he’s less than a half acre, feasibly he could use
domestic water for his landscaping.
Borup: Is that what normally has transpired in the past on these little parcels like
this?
Freckleton: Yes, correct.
Borup: Not much other choice is there?
Freckleton: You kind of get to a point too where you get a project that’s small
enough that it’s not real cost effective to put in a big pressurized irrigation system
for a small project. There’s kind of a break point.
Borup: Definitely.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 97
Freckleton: So that was my suggestion was that he address that with Council
and request a waiver.
MacCoy: Okay any other questions for the staff? Anyone here would like to
speak on the positive side of this development? All right let’s try it the other way.
– speak on the other side of the negative side of the development?
GINGER HANEY 502 W. BROADWAY, MERIDIAN, IDAHO
Haney: One of these four-plexes would look right into our backyard. But beyond
that counting Seabury this is 39 new families in a two block area, and I just
wanted to question the density as far as schools and traffic, water pressure, and
that type of thing. It just seems like a lot of families in a short space, which I
maybe mistaken. He says apartments would be a lot denser, but will it drop our
water pressure and do you have a study on the schools? Or what this many new
families will do in those areas?
MacCoy: Well the schools tell us that they’re all over booked already so anybody
we add to the area is not going to help them any for the present time.
De Weerd: The school didn’t comment on this particular project.
Haney: Well we just came to oppose it for the reasons that it’s so much density
in such a small area and because they are two stories and we have a one story
home.
MacCoy: Okay let’s ask Bruce, did you hear her comment about the water
pressure?
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy, Members of the Commission, we do as you
know have a hydraulic model computer model that we punch these projects into.
I have not ran the model on this yet. I don’t anticipate that there will be any
problems in that area. Have you had any problems with water pressure at your
location?
Haney: No, not yet.
Freckleton: I was going to say because that’s one area of town where we
shouldn’t have any problems, but that will be done. I will run that through the
model.
Haney: And can you tell me how far off the fence their building is or the property
line? We’re at 502 W. Broadway, which is –
Borup: You’re on the east side of the project or the west side?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 98
Haney: The east side.
Freckleton: The building setback being a two story structure would be ten feet.
It would be five per story. So sitting at ten from the property line.
Borup: Minimum.
Haney: Ten feet from our line as well I mean both ends?
Freckleton: From the property line. I don’t have the other addresses of the
surrounding properties on this map, so I’m not real sure exactly where you’re at.
Borup: She’s on the east end.
Haney: On the east side.
Freckleton: North side of Idaho or south side of Idaho?
Haney: No, we’re on Broadway.
Freckleton: Okay. Yeah, it would be ten feet on the east side and south side of
lot 3 which is the most southeasterly lot that they propose.
Haney: So the building would start at ten feet off?
Freckleton: Ten feet off the property line.
Borup: That’s the minimum.
Freckleton: Right they could be setting 20 feet back. The setback line is as far
as the zoning. The building code would require –
Borup: With the private road that is considered a side setback. Isn’t that what
you’re saying?
Freckleton: The building that they’re showing on lot 3 oriented with the front of it
facing west so the rear…
(END OF TAPE)
Freckleton: …can show you the map here if you would like.
Haney: Is there any landscaping between that and our property or just the
fence?
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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Freckleton: I would imagine it’s going to be grass, turf area.
Haney: Well, that’s all I had to say.
Borup: Ma’am I think what they are saying is the side against your property
would be the side of the building, the backyard would be facing to the east.
Haney: Yeah, their back would look into our yard. In other words.
Borup: Well, their back of their house would look into the east, the side that
would be looking into your yard would be the side of the building.
Haney: No, it’s the back of the building, isn’t that right?
Borup: No, it’s the side. That’s not what is drawn on this plat. Isn’t the front of
the building facing the private road? So the side facing her property would be
the side of the building. Back of your property has to be facing the property to
the east. Her backyard would be facing the side of your building. That’s what
you have drawn on the plat.
(Inaudible)
Nelson: Shari, I have a question for you. Why does this require a conditional
use if it’s R-15?
Stiles: Because they have lots—they are proposing private roads, they are
having lots that don’t have any frontage. That’s the main reason.
Haney: I had one more thing. We had some white vinyl fencing on the other
side of us and we asked him if he could possibly put the same thing up in this
area between the two properties, instead of a wood fence. Does it matter if he
puts the vinyl?
MacCoy: What is the height of the vinyl fence.
Haney: Pardon me.
MacCoy: What is the height of your vinyl fence for example?
Unidentified: Six foot.
MacCoy: Okay he would be matching…
Unidentified: On my east side.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 100
MacCoy: Okay he would be matching your six foot up, which is required to be
fenced. I know what they want, but he’s got to put up a six foot fence anyway.
So deal with him to give you, instead of wood, give you a vinyl fence, to match
yours. It’s a reasonable request, all I’m saying to you is that is between you and
the developer. We can’t tell him that is what he is going to put up. If we tell him
he has to put up a six foot fence.
Haney: Okay, thanks.
De Weerd: We are witnesses.
MacCoy: Is there anyone here—anybody else who wants to speak on the other
side of the fence? We were just talking about the fence. Since there is nobody
else talking either way, the developer do you have anything else you want to say
to us? Staff do you want to say anything to us?
Stiles: We would like to get a landscape plan, we have something that says it is
a landscape plan, but there is nothing on it. There are two trees on it, I think that
was about it or trees or some other identified squiggly thing.
De Weerd: Shari does a landscape plan fulfill that four foot minimum between
the right-of-way and parking that you had mentioned?
Stiles: They will be able to accommodate it, the minimum four feet between the
right-of-way and the parking area because Ada County Highway District is
allowing them to taper this back down to 50 feet. So they are going to have an
additional five feet on each side of the road.
De Weerd: Does that need to be a condition?
Stiles: No, they just need to meet ordinance requirements, I think that covers it.
De Weerd: Okay.
MacCoy: Anything else? Shari anything else?
Stiles: No sir.
MacCoy: Commissioners what do you want to do?
Freckleton: Shari was just pointing out to me that I may be all wet as far as the
pressurized irrigation system. As far as getting a waiver. Going to have to get
some clarification on that whether that is allowed or whether they would have to
go through the variance process. Being an ordinance requirement, it’s…
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 101
Stiles: It says they can be waived if they don’t have any water rights.
Nelson: Or access thereof.
Stiles: Or if they deed the city land for a well, drill the well, and place the well on
line, they could also have that waived.
Freckleton: Okay, so maybe I was right. Never mind.
MacCoy: Back to the commissioners again, what do you want to do?
Borup: I move we close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Borup: I move that we recommend approval of this conditional use permit for a
six lot subdivision.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO. 8: REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR MERIDIAN ACRES
SUBDIVISION BY MIKE STIPA –0-NORTH OF BROADWAY, SOUTH OF PINE
AVENUE, WEST OF WEST 4TH STREET:
Stiles: I have no comment other than what our memorandum stated and that
they meet all ordinance requirements. That’s it.
MacCoy: Bruce anything?
Freckleton: Just one small item that we were just discussing here and that is the
ordinance is pretty specific where it talks about irrigation water rights. The letter
from Nampa/Meridian doesn’t specifically talk about irrigation water rights, it talks
about availability of water. Have you checked into the water rights issue with the
district at all?
Stipa: Well I’ve…
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 102
MacCoy: I’m still talking to this right here. Hold on for a moment.
Freckleton: That’s just a question I have is whether there are rights on the
property.
MacCoy: Just a minute then, we are going to open the public hearing and now
you can say who you are and you can answer him.
MIKE STIPA.
Stipa: I did meet with Cindy Zimmerman at the Water Resources Board and far
as we could tell there weren’t any water rights on that—going through the legal
description so the only access would be the existing lateral that is there and is
addressed in the letter from Nampa/Meridian which they can not guarantee
delivery of water. So that was basically a dead end. Water Resource Board.
MacCoy: Do you have anything you want to say to us about the preliminary plat
that you haven’t already said?
Stipa: I don’t believe so.
MacCoy: You want to include what you said before?
Stipa: Yes I will apply my previous comments to that.
MacCoy: Okay, is there any questions from the commissioners to this? All right,
thank you very much. Is there anyone here who would like to say anything else
positive? Negative? I guess not. All right, back to the commissioners again.
De Weerd: I move we close the public hearing.
Nelson: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: What is our motion?
Nelson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we recommend
approval of the request for preliminary plat for Meridian Acres Subdivision.
Borup: Could we add one comment to that? The person who did the previous
motion neglected to include the staff comments.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 103
Nelson: And to include the staff comments for items 7 & 8.
Borup: They are the same for both, so I think we are covered. Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Rossman: Just a moment. Keith just amended the motion, he needs a second
on the amended motion.
MacCoy: I’ll second the motion.
De Weerd: Do you want to add the rest of the comments or only staff or does
that include all comments?
Nelson: I’d like to rescind my motion.
MacCoy: You’ve got to rescind the second now.
De Weerd: Do you rescind your second?
Borup: I sure do.
Nelson: Did you have some issues above what the…
De Weerd: No, just to include all the comments, all the attached comments.
Nelson: I would like to make a motion that we recommend approval for the
preliminary plat for Meridian Greens Subdivision to include all the staff
comments, (Inaudible).
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: Good thank you.
ITEM NO. 9: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING
OF 9.14 ACRES BY PAUL A. HOFFMAN – SW CORNER OF MERIDIAN RD. &
USTICK RD:
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 104
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners, you may recall this has been before
you before. We had a little bit of a problem with the entire property being zoned
L-O because of the uses that could be permitted there and the office use is not
permitted there, at least not encouraged by the Comprehensive Plan and the fact
that there are existing residential units on the lot, on the corner, which would not
be permitted in an L-O zone. So they are back, they are proposing the L-O zone
for the parcel that the church is located on and the second lot right at the corner
is now proposed to be an R-4. That’s basically why you are seeing this again.
You have already passed it on to City Council once, they sent it back to you.
MacCoy: That’s right. Any comment from Bruce?
Freckleton: Chairman MacCoy and members of the commission, I did go
through and check the legal descriptions that were submitted for this new
supplemental packet and they do appear to be correct and meet all of our
requirements. So I don’t have any problem with it.
MacCoy: Well, I will know open the public hearing and the applicant can come
forward. I’m assuming that must be you.
PAUL HOFFMAN, 3235 N MOUNTAIN VIEW DR., BOISE, ID.
Hoffman: I’m here to answer any questions.
MacCoy: You have nothing you want to say at this time?
Hoffman: No sir.
MacCoy: Commissioners do you have any thing you want to ask him? Well, you
can sit down. I guess you are getting a free trip, waited all this time for this. All
right commissioners what is your discussion, do you want to close the public
hearing, do you want to…
De Weerd: I move that we close the public hearing.
Nelson: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: Now what are you going to do?
De Weerd: I would move that we recommend the annexation and zoning of
9.1—cancel that. Okay, I move that we approve the annexation and zoning of
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
FEBRUARY 9, 1999
PAGE 105
7.84 acres from R-4 Ada County to R-4 Meridian City, hmm. Let’s try this again.
One more try, third time is a charm, right? I move that we recommend the
annexation and zoning of 7.58 acres to L-O and 1.56 acres to R-4, City of
Meridian.
Borup: Second.
De Weerd: Oh, I didn’t move to incorporate comments that were submitted. Do
you want to withdraw your second?
Borup: I will withdraw my second.
De Weerd: Okay I add that to my motion.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO.10: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A HOME SALON BY TINA SAYKO – 310 E. BROADWAY:
MacCoy: Staff?
Stiles: Chairman MacCoy, commissioners this is a request for a home
occupation of an in home hair salon at 310 E. Broadway with the exception that
the applicant is already operating. The main concerns we have are—staff
doesn’t particularly have real concerns about the lack of off street parking, Ada
County Highway District, however, has put some pretty extensive requirements
on paving the alley, and replacing curb, gutter, sidewalk on Broadway. We have
had a similar request for an in home salon further down on Pine, if you will
remember. She had to go through some pretty extensive renovations, had to
make it handicap accessible, had to put in a parking lot. I think we need to be
consistent in our requirements, but there is no off street parking in this proposal
right now.
MacCoy: That was also an one chair operation too.
Stiles: So either, I think the applicant should probably be required to get a
variance from the off street parking requirement, just out of fairness to the other
people that have gone through exactly the same thing and had to put in parking,
put in their handicap ramps and that’s all that I have.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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MacCoy: Bruce do you have anything? Okay, we will open the public hearing.
Tina, you can come forward if you are not already asleep.
TINA SAYKO, 310 E. BROADWAY, MERIDIAN, ID.
Sayko: So what do I need to do, apply for a variance. I don’t have off street
parking and I did talk to Ada County Highway District and told them what is going
on and they said they are not going to force it, if you guys aren’t basically. I
talked to Larry Sale. I have a really small operation, I work only 2 ½ days a
week, very few clients a day, four or five. I can’t afford to put parking in the back,
due to some health problems and some financial problems in the last years.
That’s why I’m in my home now working. So, I have to do whatever I have to do
to work. I (Inaudible) can not afford paving and all that.
MacCoy: Do you have a copy of the material that the staff worked up.
Sayko: He said he was going to have it ready today for you.
(Inaudible)
Sayko: I told him my whole situation, he made a copy of my appointment book,
saw how many clients I had and he said he would talk it over with—they said
they weren’t going to do anything if you guys weren’t going to do anything.
MacCoy: Do you have a copy of this? Do you have a copy of the staffs
comments too?
Sayko: What?
MacCoy: What a copy of the staff comments too?
Sayko: Yeah, I already read those earlier.
MacCoy: Anything else you want to tell us.
Sayko: I really don’t know the procedure here, but I just basically want to have
the city waive the off street parking requirement, it’s unnecessary for the amount
of clients that I have. There is plenty of parking in front of my house. They’ve
been coming for a few months now, there is only my car parked in front and one
clients. There is plenty of parking, it would just prove to be an unnecessary
financial burden. Extreme one.
MacCoy: Since you only work part time.
Sayko: Yeah, I thought I had it worked out with this man.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
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PAGE 107
MacCoy: Okay, but he didn’t give you anything in writing.
Sayko: He basically—if the city didn’t require me to, if they waive the off street
requirement, they are not going to…
Borup: Mr. Chairman, the letter from Larry Sale doesn’t even mention anything
about off street parking.
MacCoy: Well that’s good.
Borup: Well so--no ACHD did not mention it at all. They mentioned a few other
things, but not parking.
MacCoy: Okay what are the things that you want to tell her then?
Borup: Oh, you mean the other two things. I don’t know if I should say this, I’ve
gotten into trouble with this before, so I better not say it. Not on the record. I
agree with staff comments and others, and the applicant that there is enough
parking in front of her place, also there is the area against the commercial
building across the street that more parking than you could ever fill your house
with. So I don’t think parking is a concern in my mind. That’s all I’m going to say
right now.
De Weerd: I have nothing.
Nelson: I think we should apply some kind of reasonable requirement in
consistency. You mentioned consistency, I don’t remember for sure with all these
circumstances that were behind the other one, but what do you feel would be
appropriate to…
Stiles: I guess my main problem is I felt like these other two in particular that I
recall recently were pretty much run through the wringer as far as requirements.
They had to put in a ramp, a handicap parking space, they had to pave any
parking area that they had. I would like Tina to explore being able to make that
handicap accessible, as far as maybe putting in some kind of a ramp to allow
access for handicap individuals. In lieu of a variance, do you have Lumberman’s
across from you, is that what it is?
Sayko: I have BMC Door Company across from me.
Stiles: Is there even a remote possibility that they might write you a letter saying
that they have no problem with you using one parking space over there? At least
that would, you would meet your off street parking requirements that way.
Without seeming like we are treating you different than someone else. You can
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count off street parking if it’s within 300 feet of the use. You know, paving the
whole alley there and providing off street parking behind your house there, I don’t
believe that is really necessary, but we do have to go with what the ordinance is
and we do have to be consistent and fair to the other people that have gone
through the same exact process. So, I guess if you could get them to…
Sayko: I will go talk to them and see what they have to say. Now what were you
saying about the handicap parking, ramp to the house? There is only one way to
get to my front door. It’s a very small little walk up one step into the front door.
I’ve been a hair dresser for 18 years. I have a set clientele, I do not do any
handicap people and won’t.
Stiles: You can’t say that though, that’s against the law. What if one of your
clientele, what if one of your established customers becomes handicapped?
Sayko: Well, we’ll carry them in. We’ll lift them in.
Borup: You laugh, but that’s…an accepted method.
Sayko: I can understand where she is coming from. It’s totally unnecessary…
Stiles: I don’t believe carrying somebody in is an accepted method for…
Sayko: I’ve seen it done at other shops, not with my clientele, but actually, I’ve
worked at shops with handicap entrances but then they were two story salons
and actually hairdressers would come down stairs and carry the people up, if
necessary. I don’t have any handicapped people and never have. I don’t think I
ever will, I have a set clientele. I’m confused about how I would a ramp up the
front door.
Stiles: It appears it would be a reasonable accommodation, I don’t know what the
cost would be, but you’ve got to two steps there. I think it would be in your best
interest to look at it.
MacCoy: How about the back door? If you go around the side of the house, can
you get in the back door by putting a ramp up there and getting in and running
them through the house.
Stiles: Then they have to go clear through the house.
Sayko: Yeah I could. Well I could. The dog might slide out the door, Kathy runs
out her dog door, but sure. Whatever, I don’t know what to say really.
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MacCoy: All it says is that you have to have handicap access to that floor of the
building that they are going to have the work done. So you can do it any door
you want to.
Sayko: Well, I guess that will work. Do you have to pave those things? Concrete
them in or is there a requirement, just some kind of a ramp.
MacCoy: There is a requirement about slope, but it’s out of wood and you need
to make it non-skid.
Sayko: Well I guess if that’s all they require I could have one built for the front
and if a handicap client does come, I can actually slide it out from the side of the
house.
MacCoy: You could do that.
Sayko: Well, that’s what I’ll do then, that would be reasonable.
MacCoy: One side has to have a handrail on it. Check with the building
department for the requirements of that, but you have a ramp that meets certain
requirements and a handrail that they will tell you about and you put it up there
and move it where you want to.
Sayko: That would be great then, that would be perfect, I have no problem with
that.
Borup: Are we saying this business would fall under the guidelines of ADA is
that what you are saying?
MacCoy: She is a public establishment. This is not a private situation.
Borup: I thought there was some other—I just want to comment. The other thing
that I feel a little different on this than some of the others, this is a dead end
street, it’s not a through street, like Pine and some of those others the parking
situation is a little bit different.
MacCoy: I think it’s a pretty good deal.
Sayko: There is space in front of my house for three cars. One being my own,
we have measured it and I only have my car and one other client at a time. I
only do four to five people a day.
MacCoy: You don’t use more than three slots.
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Sayko: There is not a parking problem. I can ask BMC West Door Company for
that one extra space. I can submit that to you.
Nelson: It’s not that you need to use it, you just need to have it available.
Sayko: To meet the requirement, okay.
Stiles: I think it is only fair for the people who have had to go through all that.
One of them is Kay Padoris down on Pine…
Sayko: Are these home salons?
Stiles: No, it’s not that one, it’s another one, it’s way setback off the Pine and
next to some apartments. Then there is another one that is a nail salon up on
Meridian.
Sayko: These are home salons as well?
Stiles: They live there and they work.
Sayko: Yeah, I would love to do all those things, it would be great for me to have
a driveway myself in the back not have to park on the street. Unfortunately due
to an illness that is taking me into the home and has left me financially
exhausted.
Borup: I believe the other two had existing driveways going back too.
MacCoy: They did.
Stiles: But they didn’t have handicap parking and they weren’t, in the case of
Meridian Road, it was not paved.
Borup: Meridian Road wasn’t paved?
Stiles: No, their driveway and parking area.
Borup: Right, yes I know that was paved.
Stiles: It may be that a ramp is not a reasonable accommodation in this case, I
don’t know how high that is, it looks like maybe a foot in a half, two feet, so you
are looking at a 24 foot ramp.
Sayko: Right, well I…
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Stiles: I guess whether it’s a reasonable accommodation would be up to the
building inspector.
De Weerd: 24 foot?
Sayko: Okay, I’ll build a ramp, I’ll have a ramp built that can be put there when a
client—I would know if they are handicap when the call for their appointment and
I can have it ready for them. I can’t say it would be up there all the time,
because the doorway is not large enough to put steps and a ramp into the salon.
MacCoy: I think your best bet is to talk to the building department and see what
they would come up with.
Sayko: Okay.
Freckleton: I don’t believe that a 24 foot long ramp by three foot wide would be
real movable.
MacCoy: I don’t either.
Freckleton: If it’s in place, I think it’s going to be in place.
Sayko: Oh, okay, but it can be anywhere on the property?
MacCoy: One of the things that can be done, I’ve seen this done, in fact I’ve
even done it. You build the ramp over the steps and then you have a trap door,
so you (Inaudible) locks in and catches on the handrail so you could use the
steps to go up and down till you have somebody coming and then you drop the
board down, slope down and then you have a sloped piece. So there is a way to
do things, but check with them first before you do anything.
Sayko: Yeah, yeah, okay.
Borup: I think that the one and ten or one and twelve is intended for someone to
go up the ramp unassisted by themselves usually. You know if someone is there
to help them, a steeper ramp would in my mind would still—I mean a shorter
ramp that would be steep would be practical.
MacCoy: Do you have anymore questions for us.
Sayko: No, I’m here to ask for a waiver on the off street parking.
MacCoy: You can sit down now if that is the case. We’ve got a public hearing
still open, there is nobody here, but that’s all right.
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De Weerd: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the public hearing.
Borup: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MacCoy: Okay, what is next?
Nelson: Do we want to—in order to have this pass with her taking a look at the
off street parking agreement and this handicap access thing, can we go ahead
and approve it with those stipulations?
MacCoy: Yeah.
Borup: I’m willing. Shari does that need to be a formal application for the
variance? Okay, good.
Stiles: Yes we would need a variance application, but I want her to check with
BMC West and try that first.
Borup: Oh with that, then there wouldn’t need to be a variance. Great. So then
you are saying Mark your motion would be approve this conditional use
instructing the applicant to check into overflow parking with BMC and check with
the building department as far as handicap access.
Nelson: Second.
De Weerd: Hey wait, incorporate comments?
Borup: And incorporate—well, if I’m going to be here I’ll get in trouble again.
Incorporate all staff comments except for—just a minute, I’ve lost them already,
Items one and two from ACHD.
MacCoy: Now a second?
Nelson: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO. 11: ADA COUNTY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES: 99-01-S/99-01-PR
JIM JEWETT:
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Stiles: Chairman do you want me to explain anything?
MacCoy: Yes I do.
Stiles: This is not in our area of impact, it is however in our referral area. I really
don’t think we need to have a response particularly since it meets the ten acre
minimum of Ada County’s Comprehensive Plan and I don’t know if we got
anything from the fire department on it, other than any concerns that they might
have, I don’t see why we would be concerned at this point. We don’t sign the
plat, or anything else.
MacCoy: It’s the same thing for the other one too. We don’t have…
Stiles: The other one is completely out of our are, really has no impact on this
either.
MacCoy: So why do we have this in our packet? Why can’t we (Inaudible) we
don’t have it, so what could we do.
Nelson: I guess if something stood out, we could comment, but would our
comments have any weight anyway?
MacCoy: Well it’s the first time we’ve really had a packet…
Stiles: If it were in our impact area, they would have to meet our ordinance
requirements (Inaudible) plat or something like that.
Borup: I believe this property is real close to the impact area.
Stiles: It is, it is immediately adjacent. You might remember Stetson Homes or
Stetson Subdivision came through here, Bill Buckners piece. He did the acreage
just north of this piece as Five Acre Subdivision. Well somebody did it.
Borup: It never made it through did it?
Stiles: Stetson Estates?
Borup: Oh did it?
Stiles: Yeah. This is for ten acres, they have a ten acre minimum.
MacCoy: Do you want us to do anything with this stuff or what? We can’t vote on
it.
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De Weerd: (Inaudible) park land.
MacCoy: I don’t see where a vote by us does any good at all.
Stiles: Not if it’s just in our referral area. I mean they will take, they will consider
comments, but nothing is binding at all.
MacCoy: So you are going to write them a letter and say we have no comments
or something.
Stiles: We could if that’s what you like.
ITEM NO. 12: ADA COUNTY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES: 98-01-CPA:
MacCoy: What about number 12 which I don’t even understand.
De Weerd: Write them a letter saying if we have comments will they count?
MacCoy: On item number 12 I have no way of knowing if this is good or bad.
Stiles: Well, if you are an Ada County Commissioner you might be concerned.
Nelson: On that note, I have no comment, officially.
Borup: Is this the Kuna/Moore Road Corridor?
MacCoy: Do you want to make a comment on it?
Borup: No, it doesn’t matter as far as city, it could have a bearing on an east
west corridor though, an east--west.
MacCoy: But I don’t know anything about it though, unless you do. I read this
stuff…
Borup: I don’t know about this specifically, but they’ve been talking about Deer
Flat being east—west corridor. There was a lot of opposition on that and
everybody from Kuna preferred Kuna/Moore Road as an east—west Corridor.
So maybe—that was just a month ago. I don’t know how they are enacting a
policy on this already, but this isn’t what the people in the Kuna area are in favor
of.
MacCoy: Well I got the impression who wrote this was somebody from Kuna.
Borup: It may have been. I’m surprised that we didn’t have this information at
the public input meeting.
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(Inaudible)
MacCoy: Shari are you going to take care of these with a letter? Okay thank
you.
Nelson: I move that we close this.
Borup: How about we adjourn?
Nelson: We adjourn.
De Weerd: Second.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:01 A.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
APPROVED:
_________________________________
MALCOLM MACCOY, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
________________________________
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK