2010 07-15Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting July 15, 2010
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of July 15, 2010, was called
to order at 7:00 p.m. by Vice-Chairman Commissioner Joe Marshall.
Members Present: Commissioner Joe Marshall, Commissioner Tom O'Brien,
Commissioner Wendy Newton-Huckabay and Commissioner Scott Freeman.
Members Absent: Chairman Michael Rohm
Others Present: Machelle Hill, Ted Baird, Anna Canning, Bill Parsons, Scott Steckline
and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance:
Roll-call
X Wendy Newton-Huckabay X Tom O'Brien
X Scott Freeman X Joe Marshall
Michael Rohm -Chairman
Marshall: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to welcome you to the regularly
scheduled meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission for Thursday, July 15th,
2010, and the first thing I'd like to do is ask the clerk to call roll.
Marshall: Commissioners, the Consent Agenda. The first thing is to approve the
minutes of the meeting of June --
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, we -
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Marshall: Oh. We have to adopt the agenda.
Freeman: The agenda.
Marshall: And, ladies and gentlemen, there are a couple changes to the agenda
tonight. Items No. 5 and No. 7, that's CUP 10-004 for Spring Creek Ustick Assisted
Living and ZOA 10-001, for the code amendment, we are going to open for the sole
purpose of continuing to the August 5th meeting. There have been a couple issues that
have come up there that need to be addressed before we can hear those. So, that
being said, can I get a motion?
Freeman: Mr. Chair, I move that we adopt the agenda with those -- with those changes.
O'Brien: Second.
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July 15, 2010
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Marshall: Commissioners, we have a motion to approve the agenda as changed. All
those in favor say aye. Those opposed? That carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of June 3, 2010 Planning and Zoning
Commission Special Meeting:
Marshall: So, Item No. 3, the Consent Agenda. Get to this one now. Commissioners,
the sole item on the Consent Agenda is the minutes from June 3rd, 2010. Are there any
changes or comments? Can I get motion?
O'Brien: Move to adopt. Move to adopt the Consent Agenda.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Marshall: It's been moved and seconded to accept the Consent Agenda. All those in
favor say aye. Those opposed? Ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Marshall: All right. Now for the public hearing on Item No. 4. Ladies and gentlemen,
there is -- just to give you a little background here before we get started. There are
sign-up sheets in the back. If you would like to address any of these I would request
that you sign up, but if you did not sign up you will have another opportunity to address
these items after the hearing -- or during the hearing after we have called everyone on
the list. The first thing I will do is ask staff to give their report and staff will give their
report, then, we will ask the applicant to come up and provide any additional
information. Then, we will go through the list as people have signed up to address
those. I will call once more for anyone that would like to address that issue and, then,
the applicant will have one more opportunity to rebut or address any issues that have
come up during public discussion.
Item 4: Public Hearing: CUP 10-003 Request for Conditional Use Permit
approval of an 80 foot tall wireless communication (internet) facility in an
L-O zoning district for Clearwire Meridian Charter High School by
Clearwire US, LLC - 1855 E. Leigh Field Drive:
Marshall: That being said, I would like to open the public hearing for CUP 10-003 for
Clear Wire Meridian Charter High School and ask for the staff report.
Canning: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm subbing for Ms. Watters tonight. This is Clear Wire
Meridian Charter High School Conditional Use Permit application. It is for awireless --
or acell tower. The overall subject property consists of 27.98 acres and it's zoned L-O
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July 15, 2010
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or light office. The site is located at 1855 East Leigh Field Drive. This school -- this is a
school site and it's surrounded by residential properties and commercial properties
across Locust Grove. Adjacent properties are zoned R-4, which is medium density
residential, R-1 in Ada County, which is kind of a low density residential. C-N,
neighborhood commercial, and L-O, light office. The CUP approval is for a new
wireless -- actually, an Internet communication facility to be erected on the grounds of
the Meridian Charter High School. The applicant proposes to remove an existing light
pole and replace it with a new 80 foot mono pole, on which lights will be mounted at a
lower height consistent with the parking lot lighting. Staff has reviewed the application
for compliance with the specific use standards for wireless communication facilities
listed in the UDC and included conditions accordingly. To our knowledge there are no
outstanding issues for the Commission. I do want to note for the record that I have
asked the applicant to install sliding gates, rather than opening gates, and he said that's
no problem. That way in the event that there is actually a car in those parking spaces
and they need to get in, that they will be able to do that. So, we can take care of that at
the CZC level. I'm not worried about it at this stage. We did receive an e-mail from the
applicant in agreement with the staff report. Staff recommends approval of the subject
application per the conditions listed in Exhibit B of the staff property. And with that I'll
answer any questions the Commission may have. Commissioner O'Brien, did you -- I
heard you kind of gesturing that you couldn't hear me. Did you find out what you
needed to?
O'Brien: I can hear. Thank you.
Marshall: All right. So, Commissioners, no questions of staff? Then, I would like to ask
the applicant to come up and state your name and address for the record, please.
Evans: Jason Evans. 104 North Milwaukee, Boise, Idaho. 83704. Commission
Members, we are here tonight, basically, because we have run out of options in
Meridian for existing communications facilities. We are located on almost every single
structure in the city that's possible and we still continue to have an Internet issue
specifically right around the Locust Grove-McMillan area. We have maxed out our
facility behind Fred Meyers. We have built it completely to the capacity. The next
closest site is Ustick and Linder. We have built that almost to capacity at this point and
it's still two miles plus away. Our other closest site is on the other side of Eagle and
McMillan, which is the really, really tall obnoxious tower that you can see from --
basically, when you get into the valley. Our only option as far as properties that will be
able to meet all of the city code requirements as far as setbacks and everything, is this
property with the school district. We have reached an agreement with them, so the
district is in place with everything. All of the documents and paperwork is being signed
by them next week, so we had a neighborhood meeting in May. We only had one
person show up from the neighborhood and he was, actually, in favor of the application,
because his Internet was very slow. We have searched all commercial properties, light
office, all sorts of properties within miles and just not able come to up with any -- any
structures that would fit. So, we got together with staff, brought forward this application
and we think it's a good application, with as much stealthing as possible, and requesting
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July 15, 2010
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approval of that tonight. I did speak with staff. A sliding gate is an option, it's actually a
really an easy fix, so that's not an issue whatsoever. We will do the cedar fence, which
is a requirement of staff -- or, excuse me, of code. And we will be able to do two sides
of landscaping, because the other side is a parking lot and, then, the sidewalk. So, we
will do as much landscaping as possible and I think we still have to do an alternative
compliance for that, so we will take care of that with the paperwork that follows, so --
so, if there is any questions I'd be more than happy to answer.
Marshall: Commissioners? Tom?
O'Brien: Yes.
Marshall: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just kind of curious about the technology. What is the
distance required between these sites? What kind of overlap do you require, et cetera?
Evans: Sometimes they only go a half a mile to a mile. The taller the site the more it
spreads out, but at the same time when you cover more area your -- basically, your
service will be slower. So, what you try to do is have one site that's going to -- cover
about a half a mile area and that's what this site should cover is about a half mile to a
mile.
O'Brien: And the specific area around I'm not familiar with that particular section of
Meridian, but what is the majority of the population there? Is it just all residential?
Business?
Evans: It's mainly residential with -- there are some offices across the street, but it is
mainly a residential area.
O'Brien: Do you anticipate expanding even further other places due to the growth?
Evans: We haven't seen forecasts for next year yet, but if it's any anticipation like this
year was, you know, we are adding up to ten new sites each yearn, plus modifying
every single site we have, which means more people are subscribing, which means that
the service is getting slower, which means we have to add more equipment.
O'Brien: One last question and it has to do with the -- the -- I'm trying to think of the
name of a word. The looks of it all, it -- I have seen other areas in other towns are very
creative in how they, basically, disguise some of these things, you know, anywhere from
a bird nest to whatever. Has that ever been taken into consideration to make it look
more appealing, if you're going to have a pole sticking up out of the ground like that?
Eighty feet is a long way up.
Evans: Actually, Commissioner, the staff and I and another representative from Verizon
met earlier this week to kind of go over those basic questions and ideas about how
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July 15, 2010
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could we make the code better to be more -- you know, just more appropriate and we
are looking at spots where it does work and other spots that it doesn't work and we kind
of discussed the other stealthing options and, you know, you might see a palm tree, you
might see some other type of designs like that, but the more you try to disguise it with
something like a palm tree or pine tree, it's going to stand out worse than just a single
pole with all of the equipment hidden in it. So, the more attention you try to take away
from it, you, actually, bring more attention to it.
O'Brien: How did you arrive at the -- at the conclusion that you needed to have this
particular unit in this particular area? Is there some kind of a survey or something like
that that you went out and solicited from people?
Evans: As far as the location?
O'Brien: Yeah.
Evans: Well, we submitted some propagation maps from our engineering that shows
where the signal is decreased. Actually, where the service problems are, what it would
look like, what it looks like currently right now, and, then, what it looks like after the site
would be built. Those were submitted to staff and, basically, it comes from engineering
and it says, okay, these are your problem areas. Here is your central area where the
service is impacted. Go find a site within there. Look for an existing site. We looked for
an existing site and that didn't work, so, then, we came and found, really, one of the only
properties that allows this use with the current setbacks in code.
O'Brien: So, you found that the majority of the people that live in that area want this
service?
Evans: We notified all property owners within -- I think it was 300 feet. Whatever the
recommendation is from staff. We notified all those people. We held a half an hour
neighborhood meeting. You know, we sent I think it was 150 notifications to all of the
people on both sides of Locust Grove, all the neighborhoods, we had one person show
up and he was in favor. So, we notified everyone as best as possible and as much as
required and we didn't get any notification otherwise. We had the signs out at the site
for -- I think ten days, 11 days. Haven't received any phone calls on that. I'm not sure if
staff has either, but we have not received any phone calls.
O'Brien: Thank you. That's all I have.
Evans: Thank you.
Freeman: Mr. Evans, I have one question. You touched upon It. One of the
requirements from staff was this five foot wide landscape buffer and, obviously, from the
plan two of your sides are curb and asphalt. Has that been discussed with staff?
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July 15, 2010
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Evans: I think that, Commissioner that would come next. If it is approved tonight, then,
it would go to the CZC level and if we are not able to meet those requirements for
landscaping, we will do an alternative compliance. We will try to work it out as best as
possible. There have been some instances where the landscaping has been waived.
We will try our best, but I mean there is only so much we can do with what we have at
that site. I don't really know if we can landscape or take away parking spots just to put
in landscaping. I know the district would frown upon that, as well as their sidewalks.
So, I don't know if we are going to be able to do all of the landscaping as required.
Freeman: Okay. So, that's to be determined as far as you know.
Evans: That is to be determined.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you.
Marshall: Any other questions, Commissioner?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Marshall: Okay. Thank you very much, sir.
Evans: Thank you.
Marshall: The sign-up sheet has one person on it and that is Mr. Jason Evans, the
applicant himself. Would anyone else like to speak on this issue? No one is speaking
up. Commissioners --
Freeman: Are you looking for a motion?
Marshall: Well, any discussion or -- then, we will probably have to close the hearing
and --
O'Brien: I have nothing further myself.
Freeman: Nothing more.
Marshall: Maybe a motion to close the public hearing and --
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Marshall: Yes, Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: I recommend we close the public hearing on CUP 10-003 for Clear
Wire Meridian Charter High School.
O'Brien: Second.
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July 15, 2010
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Marshall: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on 10-003. All
those in favor say aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Marshall: All right. Commissioners, discussion?
O'Brien: I have just one question and it's always kind of bothered me from when I first
came on is that 300 foot requirement to notification of people around a certain area -- a
certain thing. You know, this thing is 80 foot tall and it certainly can be seen a lot further
away than just 300 feet. So, I always wondered -- and we have never really discussed
that in depth and it was approved long before I came on board, but I just think in these
kinds of instances I just don't think that's enough -- enough people that they be
impacted by this -- this thing, you know, if you look at your backyard and here it is a
quarter mile away or more and -- you know. I don't know. It just -- it's just my thought.
Marshall: Commissioner O'Brien, my thoughts on that would be I think that's something
we may need to discuss or look at in the future, but would have no impact on this
hearing.
Freeman: Yeah.
O'Brien: I just wanted to go on record that that is a --
Marshall: And that is something maybe we should talk to the staff about and see --
Freeman: Well, Commissioner O'Brien, I -- you know, I kind of look at that in a -- from a
different perspective, which is I favor the site that they have chosen, because, in fact, it
is so far away from adjoining properties and I imagine some of the neighbors' reactions
may have been different if it was right on their property line or within a setback or right
beside a setback, but the fact that this is clear across -- it's going to be visible,
obviously, but it's not something that's going to be right smack in somebody's backyard.
And so I look at the location and think they have probably chosen a pretty good one
where it's going to be the least disruptive, because it is so far away from property.
O'Brien: I agree with that -- in that perspective as well and Idon't -- I'm not familiar with
that particular area, but I guess I just wanted to make a note of the fact that I think in
some instances this apply -- maybe not apply, I guess, for the distance surrounding a
particular project. But that's for another time.
Freeman: You're right.
Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien, I think you're going to find that anyone who
is using any kind of a broadband Internet service is going to be thrilled to have that
functionality in their neighborhood now and --
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July 15, 2010
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O'Brien: That's not my question, but -- you're right.
Newton-Huckabay: No. But Ithink -- and having seen recently cell phone towers
disguised as palm trees on vacation, I do have to point out that it is quite garish and it
does stick out, whereas we are used to seeing things, such as power poles and that
type of thing in various shades of gray in our environment and usually you drive right on
by them, but the minute you put plastic palm frawns on the top of one and painted palm
leaves or bark, it gets quite obvious. So, I think -- I agree with Commissioner Freeman,
it's a great location, I think it's a great win-win for the school district and Clear Wire and
the city, so --
O'Brien: I'm not against it. That wasn't my concern. It was just the distance of
notification of people. That's all. And I just wanted to know how it applied here, so --
that's all.
Marshall: Well, Commissioners, I can mention I am privy to the fact that staff has had a
number of discussions about the stealth pole and disguising it like even a flag was
discussed, could a flag go up it, which would interfere with problems, but the antennas
themselves are hidden within the pole and one of the things that I appreciate also is that
one of the requirements is that there are space for other providers within the pole
should they come lease some of that from Clear Wire. They have options of providing
services to other providers within that same pole. So, additional poles don't have to be
made in that same location. So, that being said do we have a motion?
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair. After considering all staff, applicant, and public
testimony, I move to approve file number CUP 10-003 as presented in the staff report
for the hearing date of July 15th, 2010, with no modifications. I further move to direct
staff to prepare an appropriate findings document to be considered at the next Planning
and Zoning Commission hearing to August 5th, 2010.
Freeman: I second.
Marshall: We have moved and second to approve CUP 10-003. All those in favor say
aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Public Hearing: CUP 10-004 Request for Conditional Use Permit
approval for an Assisted Living Facility on approximately 2.3 acres in an
existing L-O zoning district for Spring Creek Ustick Assisted Living
Facility by Doug Clegg - SWC of N. Meridian Road and W. Ustick Road:
Marshall: At this time I'd like to open the public hearing for CUP 10-004 for the sole
purpose of continuing it to the August 5th hearing date.
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July 15, 2010
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Newton-Huckabay: So moved. Or -- I make that motion. It's been so long.
Marshall: We have a motion to continue it to the August 5th. Do we have a second?
Freeman: Second.
Marshall: It has been moved and seconded to continue CUP 10-004 to August 5th.
Those in favor say aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Public Hearing: CUP 10-005 Request for Conditional Use Permit
approval to construct a duplex in an R-4 zoning district for Walker Duplex
by Cortland Walker - 1251 W. Crestwood Drive (Lot 2, Block 1 of
Woodward Estates Subdivision):
Marshall: I would like to open now the public hearing for CUP 10-005 for the Walker
Duplex and ask for the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The application
before you tonight is for a conditional use and design review approval for a duplex. The
subject property is located -- physical address is 1251 West Crestwood Drive. In the
aerial before you it's located on the southwest corner of Crestwood Drive and
Southwest 12th Avenue. The property is approximately 0.0 -- or, excuse me, 0.20 acres
and is currently zoned R-4. Adjacent land uses to this property are single family
residences and a mix of single family attached, which you can see in the aerial on the
right across the street from the proposed property. Here is the site plat that staff had
analyzed for the application. A little history on this. I don't know if some of you
Commissioners have had an opportunity to drive by the site, but you can see that the
structure is currently under construction. Originally it came through to the building
department as a single family residence within an unfinished basement. Construction
commenced, the applicant decided to revise the plans and include a basement unit or a
finished basement. That triggered the building official to have the applicant notify staff
as to what the intention of their property was. After meeting with staff in pre-app'ing, we
realized that -- they realized that the site, in fact, did change from a single family
residence to what the code defines as a duplex. There are provisions in the ordinance
that allow for secondary dwelling units. However, based on the square footage that
they were proposing and the number of bedrooms at the time, it did not comply with
those standards. So, in fact, the UDC did describe this as a duplex unit, which is,
basically, two units on one property. And so it doesn't clearly say it has to be side by
side, it could be one on top of the other. So, per that they were informed of the
additional parking requirements of the UDC and so the plan kind of morphed from what
was permitted for a single family residence into the Conditional Use Permit that you see
this evening. The main floor unit itself will be three bedrooms and two baths and the
basement unit will be at this time proposed for one bedroom, including a living room and
separate kitchen and a den space that's located up in the right-hand corner on the right
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July 15, 2010
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side. The -- if you can follow my arrow here, the diagram on the right is the basement
unit floor plan and, of course, the one on the left is the upstairs or main floor. Per the
parking standards of the Unified Development Code, there are the -- it requires for three
-- two to four bedroom units requires a two car garage, plus a 20-by-20 parking pad.
For a one bedroom unit it requires a one car garage and a 10-by-20 parking pad and as
I mentioned to you earlier, since the house was under construction and plans morphed
and the garage was under construction, it was impractical or pretty difficult to go back
and modify the garage plan in their -- I called it out in the staff report and it really came
down to a couple issues or a couple problems for the applicant. One, if you look at the
design manual it encourages that the structure itself be the dominant feature on the
property, not parking in the garage. So, of course, the applicant had an option to
expand the garage northward, add the parking, and meet -- comply with ordinance. But,
again, you get street dominated, you lose some of the architectural details of the home
and pretty soon the site is taken up by the parking requirements. So, staff met with
them, give them options for alternative compliance, and that's what you see before you
tonight. The applicant has labeled the parking stalls in front of you, so R-1 and R-2, R-3
and R-4 comply with the main -- the main unit, the three bedroom, two bath unit, and
they labeled T-6 and T-5 for the tenant parking or for the basement unit. I would point
out that the -- that pad is a little smaller than what code would require, if it was -- it's 19
by 20. Typically you get a 20 by 20, but due to site constraints in the construction of
that, like I said, the garage, it makes it difficult to get that. The other reason why code
requires a garage parking and is -- is really to add some additional storage for
residential units. So, to the kind offset that requirement the applicant has proposed 119
square foot tenant storage that you see in the southwest corner of the site. In addition,
there is some storage in the basement unit as well. Staff still has concerns with how
parking stall T-6 could function.
T-5 seems to work fine. A truck or vehicle could pull in there and back out straight
forward onto the street. I did call out in the staff report that there may be some
maneuvering issues with cars wanting to exit and enter T-6, so keep in mind there are
some utilities there in the southeast corner that make it difficult to pave the driveway all
the way over to the south property line. So, staff has encouraged the applicant to try to
rectify the situation and -- well, you can see that linear portion -- or the curved portion of
the driveway, I tried to expand that as much as possible to the east and south, not to
impede utilities there, so that they can at least try to hit somewhat around that, so if
there is a vehicle in T-6, at least it won't be too problematic for cars to enter and exit
there. Keep in mind if you do have a larger vehicle there, it could be difficult either way.
I mean that's something to keep in mind. Staff did not receive any comments on the
application. There aren't any other outstanding issues, then, basically, that parking
structure. I would point out on the -- on the floor plan -- again, if you look at the den
unit, the closets -- there is still a closet there. It could be storage. There is still a wall
there. So, it implies it could be a bedroom, but they do have it labeled as -- as a den,
but I did just want to point that out on the record that right now they do show only one
bedroom. But it's something to take into consideration. Again, I did not receive
comments on the application and I would be happy to answer any questions you may
have regarding it.
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July 15, 2010
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Marshall: Commissioners, any questions of staff?
Freeman:. I have one. The corner you're referring to where we have the curved
landscape area, is that tree existing?
Parsons: Commissioner Freeman, it is not existing; it's something that they have
proposed on the application. The UDC doesn't require any additional street buffer
landscaping, so it's certainly not a required tree to be placed there. I know there is
some telephone utilities there from my visit at the site and there was a water meter
there and I know Public Works doesn't like concrete over top of their utilities -- or their
meters. So, that's why you see the pad stop right at the edge of that.
Freeman: Thank you.
Marshall: Any other questions? All right. At this --
Newton-Huckabay: I have one.
Marshall: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: This is just to clear the cobwebs for me, if we could -- this came
through as -- as a subdivision at one point, didn't it, like five or six houses? Did any of
them get built? Just this one corner?
Parsons: Newton-Huckabay, I think this is the remaining vacant lot with that
subdivision.
Newton-Huckabay: The junk yard lot is still behind this one?
Parsons: It's a storage lot.
Newton-Huckabay: Oh. I'm sorry.
Parsons: It's not a junk yard, it is a storage lot.
Newton-Huckabay: Didn't it have like a bunch of old trucks or something? Sorry. It's a
storage lot. It's still there.
Parsons: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, correct, it is still there. If you look on the
aerial south of this lot, there is a home and, then, the storage lot is still present.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Well, it looks a lot different than last time I seen it, so --
okay.
Marshall: Any other questions? All right. At this time I'd like to ask the applicant to
come fonivard. And, please, state your name and address for the record, please.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 12 of 33
Walker: I'm Cortland Walker. My address is 1300 South Heidi Place in Meridian. So,
we -- I'll just give you a little history on this. That corner where those three homes are
proposed -- we subdivided that about three years ago. The subdivision across the
street, the original Crestwood, wanted to get rid of the tennis court, it was just too much
maintenance for them and so they sold it to a gentleman who passed away while he
was trying to get this developed and the family called me and said are you interested
and I said, yeah, I'll finish it off and so I took it over from that and paid off the
subdivision, went through the process and made a subdivision, it was called Woodward
Estates, and that was five years ago,
probably. I had -- had the idea that I'd like to have some of my kids close to me. So,
there is one house there, if you're looking at the left of the site, I have one daughter
living there and, then, we moved an old house in that was over on Meridian Road,
moved it in and fixed it up and sold it, which is the one next to the RV park, and I had
the one left and my other daughter wanted to live there, so my daughter and her
husband -- he and I have been working over there for a year now every day trying to get
this project built. I, basically -- I gave them the lot, just trying to help them out so that --
so that these young kids could have a place to live that was affordable. And so that's --
that's what I have been doing is trying to help them get into something that they could
afford. The reason for the basement was that as we started construction and we were
going to do a basement anyway, we put in a pump, we wanted to make it energy
efficient to keep the utilities down and he has a father that has -- is diabetic and is in a
wheelchair and we thought we would make this a duplex, so that we could get him in
there, but he's got to the point he probably won't be able to live there and -- but, then,
there is other members of the family that, you know, we may -- they may want to rent
that out to members of the family. And they may rent it out to somebody else. But their
family is growing, they would like to use the basement for their own family as time goes
on. But as staff mentioned, because they said they wanted to put somebody in the
basement, they said, well, you got to go through the PUC process and do it. And so
that's why we are here. We want to do everything legally. We have tried to work with
staff to make sure that we do everything that they have asked us to do and that's where
we are at. So, we are here tonight just to try to finish up the process, so we can get
them their occupancy permit and get them into the house.
Marshall: Commissioners, any questions?
O'Brien: I just have one that I'm just more curious than anything, because it's going to
be a separate residence, if you will, and it's below ground, does it require to have some
kind of a ramp or something for disabled people?
Walker: No. We thought about that, but, no, it's not required for a single family.
O'Brien: Okay.
Walker: But we do have -- if you show the plan, it shows some stairs -- no, that's not
the one. That's the elevation. And you don't have a picture of the actual unit itself, do
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July 15, 2010
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you, Bill? You look at it -- you drive down the street either way, it's a single house. It
looks like a house, but because he wanted to use the basement for possibly renting it
out sometime, we put the stairs in the back and, then, it opened a whole can of worms
that, oh, well, you're going to move somebody in, it's going to be a duplex. So, we are
here to see if it gets rented out sometime that we have, you know, the right to do that.
O'Brien: Thank you.
Walker: And, then, I don't know what you need more from me, if you don't have
anymore questions, but my son-in-law's folks are here and I know he'd like to make a
few comments, too, so --
Marshall: Well, Mr. Walker, we are going to go through a process and call everyone
signed up and anyone that has not signed up will also get an opportunity to speak.
Walker: Okay. I don't know if he's next or --
Marshall: All right.
Walker: And he's got some more information than I.
Marshall: All right.
Walker: I pretty much have been doing the construction and he's been working with
staff to make sure we did everything in line.
Marshall: Thank you very much, sir.
Walker: Okay.
Marshall: All right. Walker Duplex. The first person I have signed up is Cortland
Walker, which I believe just spoke, and, then, Ernest Pauline. Sir, if you could state
your name and your address for the record.
Pauline: Ernest Pauline. 3130 North Alicia Avenue, Meridian. 83646.
Marshall: Thank you.
Pauline: Cortland Walker's daughter is married to my step-son Ryan and we have been
working to develop this project in accordance with the city's requirements. We have
appreciated staff's help. It, unfortunately, has been an evolution. It would have been
great if we could have started off with the original idea, but it kind of evolved based
upon requests from family members and based upon our children's interest, so we are
here today to answer any questions that you may have. We believe that the staff's
suggestion on the driveway, extending it, we will be glad to work with them and
accomplish that and make that egress as compatible as possible for any vehicles
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 14 of 33
coming and going. We also want to try to improve the appearance of that area and so
you see the tree or bushes or some landscaping that will be in that area. We are trying
to be sensitive to the neighborhood. We would like that to be a nice addition to the
neighborhood. We believe that the additional unit is going to be an advantage to the
city in general. It's going to add to the affordable housing in your community. That's
one of your goals. And we believe that it will be a nice addition to the neighborhood. As
you have seen on the plan we have evolved from a two bedroom unit to a one bedroom
unit, opening up one of the rooms to be a den and that it is our commitment and our
intention to leave that as a den. The real purpose, as Mr. Walker has explained, is to
have a unit that could possibly meet the needs of elderly or handicapped members of
our family. The bathroom and the bedroom doors have been configured for wheelchairs
and, if necessary, we can put a wheelchair lift to take people up and down into that
area. Of course, we can't assure that it will be a family member, handicapped or
elderly, but that really is one of our primary goals. So, we appreciated the working with
staff and found them to be very helpful and we are here to answer any questions you or
the public may have.
Marshall: Commissioners?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Freeman: No questions.
Marshall: Mr. Pauline --
Pauline: Yes.
Marshall: -- I do have one quick question. You say you would put in a wheelchair lift.
Because looking at this we were talking about a gentleman with diabetes who was in a
wheelchair and there are stairs going into the basement, about a half a flight it appears.
Pauline: We know that in some buildings, churches, for example, rather than having a
ramp to go up to an area, it's possible to install basically an elevator that allows a
wheelchair to go up and down and that is an option. We could make that happen if we
need to.
Marshall: And where would this lift be installed? On the stairs themselves?
Pauline: There is an entryway in front of the basement door with a set of steps going up
and it could accommodate on one side or the other a lift if necessary.
Marshall: That would not interfere with the operation or function of the steps?
Pauline: No.
Marshall: All right. Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 15 of 33
Pauline: Okay. Thank you very much.
Marshall: All right. Mr. Ryan Warner.
Warner: Just like you said, my name is Ryan Warner, I live in the subdivision. I live at
1412 -- or 1410 South Heidi Place and, obviously, I object to this move and there is
several reasons why. Number one, these are three real small lots and they have
packed these houses on these lots. As he mentioned, I think it was .2 acres and all that
-- all the houses in here are single family. There are a few on the other side of the
street that are against Franklin. They have -- they each have double car -- they each
have a double carport and they are separate and they are ground floor and also have
fairly large yards and this one doesn't, this is a very big house on a very, very small lot
and I think if -- it's also zoned R-4. So, I think if they wanted to build a duplex on there
they should have built a duplex up front, build it, make sure it met all the requirements,
that the setbacks were appropriate, that had the right kind of parking up front. I just feel
it's a little bit disingenuine to build this house and we are almost done -- oh, by the way,
we want to -- we want to put a basement apartment in the house and park cars and
pave -- put pavement on the side of the house. I don't think that -- the reason for code
and zoning is to protect the homeowners, the value of their property and I don't believe
this property does that. As he mentioned, there are several requirements it doesn't
meet. There is parking issues and even to get a pad, the setbacks are -- there is not big
enough setbacks and as a contractor everyone knows the first thing you do is you make
sure that house is five feet away from the side and 20 feet and everything is right or
you're going to have to take it down and, obviously, Cortland has been building houses
and developing for 30 years, so he has to be aware of these setbacks. I brought some
pictures. I'm not sure who I hand them to, but, like I said, they want to put pavement on
the side of this structure --
Canning: Sir?
Warner: -- on the side of this house --
Canning: If you give it to us we can put them up for everybody to see.
Marshall: We will get them up so everybody can see them.
Warner: Okay. They want to put pavement here and park cars on the side of the
house. As you can see, there is several problems. Number one there is not enough
room to put the pad. Number two, there is utilities mentioned. A good chance that
unless you put some pretty heavy barricades around there those are going to get hit. I
know my box -- mailbox is away from the driveway, it's been hit twice, and scraped cars
up pretty good and so you kind of have to come in at an angle to even get in there. So,
quite frankly, I doubt anyone would park there if they -- if they pour that concrete slab
anyways. And I will give you an example of that here in a second. Like I said, this is a
really big house, there is hardly any property, really small and tight fit. I think they have
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 16 of 33
already got -- I believe they have already got variances on those three houses already.
Here is another example. Here is the --
Marshall: Mr. Warner, I'm going to have to ask you to move pretty quick and kind of
wrap it up. We are about out of time here.
Warner: Okay. This is the house right next door. As you can see, there is a garage
right next to it. Obviously, it didn't fit either, so it's a detached garage and it's in the
back. As you can see, they didn't park there anyways. The cars this morning, they
were all parked up here on the side and this isn't their property, so -- so, I'll give you
that. I will be quick. There were several problems I had. Number one, it doesn't protect
our property value. Number two, it doesn't meet code. It was poor planning on their
part. I think the cars are all going to end up on the street. If you lose your job, I don't
think it's appropriate -- if I lost my job and I'm building a house I can't say, well, I'm going
to make these rooms apartments and move my friends and family in there. I'd just like
you to step in my shoes. If this was your subdivision would you like abuild -- or building
a lot, a half, and making it a single residence and meshing it on there and, then, saying,
oh, by the way, we are going to make the basement -- after the fact the basement an
apartment. I don't think any of you would be too happy about that. Let's see. I mean,
basically, it's a basement apartment. There is no other basement apartments in the
area. Even if a duplex that are on the side, they are a ground level. It's not a true
basement, but it's a good three or four feet below the ground.
Marshall: Mr. Warner, I'm going to have to call it now. Yeah. Because we have got a
number of people signed up. If you will wait for just a minute. I want to see if any of the
Commissioners have any questions for you.
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Freeman: I do not.
O'Brien: No.
Marshall: Thank you.
Warner: You're welcome.
Marshall: I would like to call Christi Pauline. Again, if you could state your name and
address for the record, please.
C.Pauline: Yes. My name is Christi Pauline and I live at the same residence at Ernie
Pauline. I'm his wife. And I really don't have anything to add, other than what has been
said, other than, you know, these are my children; I guess that if I'm going to speak
today it's going to be from the heart of mother. These children have been struggling to -
- my son has just got a -- gotten himself established in a good career within the last
year. Before that he was doing construction work and everyone knows how
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 17 of 33
construction suffered and he suffered along with it and it was put -- and was put in a bad
position. We worked as a family to be able to know how we could help these children
get back on their feet. Ryan, my son, and his father-in-law Cortland have literally been
out working on that house every single day for the past year trying to get it done. They
have really tried to be considerate of the neighbors in that area and -- and tried to keep
the area clean and tried to finish the project as quickly as possible and I think that, you
know, they are coming to the end of the -- towards the end of the project. It did evolve.
Like Cortland just mentioned, Ryan's father has diabetes. That was the plan in the
beginning. Unfortunately, his health has declined to the point that he's going to have to
stay in a nursing home. However, Cortland has -- the daughter that lives next door has
-- he has a mother that might -- that is interested in taking that place. She's an elderly
woman. Again, we are -- we really would like to work with the -- with the Department of
Planning. We have done all that we can. We really feel like -- as Ernie stated, this
really is going to be a benefit to not only the neighborhood, but to the city and -- and
that's all I have to add.
Marshall: Thank you, Mrs. Pauline. Any questions? Thank you very much. The next
person signed up is Patricia Scott. Mrs. Scott, if you would state your name and
address for the record, please.
Scott: I'm Patricia Scott and I live at 184 Southwest 12th in Meridian. I'd like to talk --
where that duplex is where the home is that's supposed to be R-4 that they want to turn
into a duplex, is on the corner that enters three separate subdivisions. The entrance is
off of Franklin. When you turn right you go to one subdivision, left another subdivision,
and straight you go to my subdivision, which is Fenwood Park or Fenway Park and, to
me, having a duplex with all these cars right on the corner, is going to hurt me
financially. I have lived there for a long time, 18, 19 years, and I don't want to see a
duplex there. The other homes that are there are townhomes and they have double
garages. They are not -- they are finished. They are garages. And even though they
look like they are together, they are actually separate homes. All of the subdivisions
just have those single family homes and I think when this whole thing started they asked
for permission to build multi-family units and were denied and so to have this come up
again, because somebody was ill, makes me feel like it's not -- I think it doesn't seem
right. It was denied. They put some houses on the properties. They are bigger than
they should be. The state of the property, as this has evolved, it's been a long time
since they have owned it and started putting houses on it, it's been really hard, because
that whole corner has been weedy, they let all the trees die, but I think one. It used to
be a little park with grass and trees and a tennis court and when we moved in there we
were like, oh, this is kind of nice. Well, it hasn't been that way for years and so I'm
having a hard time thinking anything should be extended when this has happened
already. When you have duplexes it seems like the property value goes down, because
you have renters and renters don't care really -- it's not their property, they are there to
live there and maybe get their deposit back, which is a different mind set than -- than
the property owners have. Last of all, pathos aside, these guys originally came saying
my dad's really sick and we need to take him in. But pathos aside, when my mom was
sick with cancer I took her in and I put her in the back bedroom and I took care of her, I
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 18 of 33
didn't have to have a duplex. She lived in my home in my spare bedroom and I don't
think that's even -- I appreciate them wanting to take care of somebody, but I don't think
that's a fair way to put this out to everybody is that we are -- you know, we are trying to
do the heart felt thing, you can do and you don't have to change the zoning on your
property. So, that would be my -- my last comment there.
Marshall: Questions for Mrs. Scott? Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Is there a homeowners association in your -- in that area?
Scott: Fenway Park doesn't have one. The other two are called like Crestwood Estates
and something else and I know the one that's to the east, it's Crestwood something.
They have one. People pay money to upkeep their yards. Now, the one on the other
side -- and that's the one that Cortland and his family live in. I don't know if they have a
homeowners association or not. They do. Now, the one that they have, the Wood --
Woodland or whatever it's called, I don't know if that has a homeowners association.
No, they don't, so --
O'Brien: Okay.
Marshall: We are going to have to just keep it up here.
Scott: Is that enough or --
Marshall: Mrs. Scott, I had a couple quick questions for you. If this were a single family
residence, as opposed to a duplex, what would visually change? What is the difference
between keeping this a single family residence versus allowing this to be a duplex?
What are the visual changes that you anticipate?
Scott: They are talking about parking that they need to install there on Southwest 12th.
What I suspect would change over time is that they would not even live there and both
of those apartments would be rented out. Both sides -- both the upper and lower parts
of the duplex would eventually be rented out. They have a little family now and they are
young and married, but I'm guessing that might --
Marshall: You're against living near renters?
Scott: No. I'm against a duplex, because I don't want my property value to go down
and I don't want -- like when somebody comes to buy my house, that's the house that
you first see there on the corner and we are all single family residences as it is right now
and that's the way it was zoned to begin with, so -- I don't know where they are going to
park.
Marshall: All right. Thank you. All right. Cheryl Lutz. Got that right? Mrs. Lutz, if you
could state your name and address for the record, please.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 19 of 33
Lutz: My name is Cheryl Lutz. I live at 1141 West Crestwood. They are on the west
corner. We are located on the east corner. We are directly across from this residence.
And there has been a very long, long history on this corner. We are directly impacted.
We have been from day one. The weeds have not been maintained. The continual dirt
and the house that is located next to the RV parking, as stated before, they have not
chosen to use the parking in behind. So, as a rule there is usually two cars parked on
the street and my main concern is parking -- the parking will be on the street. Now,
when construction originally started, they did park over on our side. We repeatedly put
notes on the cars. It was ignored. We finally had to walk over there and ask them,
please, do not block the side of our house, because that's the only place we have to
park. Being on the corner, when you come around the corner our driveway is right there
and, of course, we have a two car garage, but we use that side there to park. We have
had a -- I am in Crestwood Estates. We do have a homeowner's. We do have strong
covenants. If you look at Crestwood Estates you will notice that there are no cars
parked on the street. Most everyone complies with that. I couldn't pull up my covenants
to see if that was actually stated in our covenants, but if you go onto Crestwood Estates
side you can look down the street and very rarely are there cars parked on the street.
We had tolerated the construction. I will be so glad when the dirt is gone and, again,
there has been a long history. When they first applied there was a park setting. There
was huge pine trees. I think the city asked that those remain. They did not remain.
The first one was cut down and the rest were allowed to die. Right now only one is
living. So, it has changed the look of that corner. And those houses are jammed on
that lot. Another concern is renters. We have had -- we have had a few issues in the
Crestwood Estate neighborhood with renters. A lot of their units have been bought and
rented out. The two bedroom units along Franklin, we had drugs, we had DEA, we
have had marijuana growing -- it's all renters and I don't want anymore renters.
Marshall: Commissioners, any questions for Mrs. Lutz?
O'Brien: I have none.
Freeman: I don't.
Newton-Huckabay: I have one. I just need to clarify something. You parked your
vehicles in -- on the road on Southwest 12th; is that want you said?
Lutz: No. We do not. We park in our driveway. When we do --
Newton-Huckabay: All right.
Lutz: They were for visitors to park on the side.
Newton-Huckabay: Oh. Oh. Okay.
Lutz: Because that is the only place for visitors to park on our site.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 20 of 33
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I got you. I thought -- I must have misheard what you said.
Okay. Thanks.
Marshall: All right. Cheryl Tussy. Did I get that right? Your name and address for the
record, please.
Tussy: Good evening, Commissioners. I am Cheryl R. Tussy and I reside at 1131
West Crestwood Drive. I have been asked to speak for three neighbors who were
elderly and ill and couldn't attend. That would be Wesley Kate of 1132 Crestwood
Drive. Marilyn Dallinger of 1134 Crestwood Drive. And Marie E. Brown of 1115 West
Crestwood Drive. And I do have their letters of opposition with me. Most West
Crestwood Drive homeowners take pride in maintaining and improving their properties.
However, in recent years West Crestwood Drive has experienced several homes
converting to rentals. The predominantly transient individuals who have occupied these
conversions have brought with them drug dealing, vandalism, piles of trash, derelict
vehicles, extremely dangerous driving behaviors, congested street parking, dangerous
to playing children and pedestrians. Fights. Animal abuse. Loud noise. And several
visits from the Meridian Police Department and the Ada County sheriff. In addition to
these negative impacts, our home values have been negatively impacted by the
collapse of the economy and there is several repossessed and vacant homes that are in
our neighborhood as a result of this collapse. In addition to these reasons for
opposition, there is not adequate site, despite that little pad that they are talking about.
Lot is too small. There is not adequate on-site or off-site street parking for the proposed
rental. And it is located on the corner of a heavily used main entry and exit off Franklin
to the subdivisions. Thus, parking on the street will cause even more dangerous
congestion. Some years back the National Association of Realtors did a study that
showed that people moved on an average of every five years. If this rental is proposed
on the basis that it is for family only, who will be renting it once the property changes
ownership? Cortland Walker, it appears, must for some reason be supremely confident
that you will approve his application or request for Conditional Use Permit, because the
costly rental was constructed prior to his application or did he perhaps think that the
construction inspection process would not notice a second unit. For these reasons we
adamantly oppose the Conditional Use Permit requested for 1215 West Crestwood
Drive. I thank you for your time and attention to our opposition.
Marshall: Commissioners, any questions from Mrs. Tussy?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Freeman: No questions.
Marshall: Thank you, Mrs. Tussy.
Tussy: Thank you.
Marshall: Ryan Nolevanko? Did I get anywhere close to that?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 21 of 33
Scott: Raemi Nolevanko was this letter for me to read. They had another meeting here.
Marshall: Anna, were you going to take that letter?
Canning: Yes.
Scott: I'll give this one to you when I'm done.
Marshall: If you would give it to her right there.
Scott: I need to read it first. Is that okay?
Marshall: Yes. Please. Go ahead, if you could read that for us.
Scott: Thank you, Council Members. This letter is from Ryan and Raemi Nolevanko.
95 Southwest 12th Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. He is the house right behind this
duplex and he's the one that has the garage that's setback that you saw the picture of.
It's says: To Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission. From Ryan and Raemi
Nolevanko. Date July 15, 2010. Subject. Walker duplex application number CUP 10-
005. We, the residents of 95 Southwest 12th Avenue, are opposed to the idea of
having a duplex at the address of 1251 West Crestwood Drive, Lot 2, Block 1, of
Woodward Estates Subdivision. We reside right next door to the property on the south
side and feel that a duplex at this particular location would not only affect our property
value in a negative manner, but would also make the property very difficult to sell if
there were renters in the property in the future. Home values have dropped
substantially in the last three years as it is and we cannot afford to lose anymore on our
investment. By allowing a duplex at 1251 West Crestwood Drive, you would not only be
affecting our home value, but many more in the immediate area. In addition, the
tenants that reside in the basement of this property will have to walk along our fence
and property line every time they go in and out of the house. This will continually be
affecting what we consider our privacy and would rather not have to go deal with this.
For these reasons we, the residents of the 95 Southwest 12th Avenue, are opposed to
the approval of a duplex at the above stated address. Thanks for your time. Ryan and
Raemi Nolevanko. And they have both signed it.
Marshall: Thank you. Could you give that over here to the clerk. We appreciate that.
All right. Mr. Ryan Ebeltoft? Did I get anywhere close? No. Help me out. If you
would give me your name and -- I'm sorry.
Ebeltoft: It's Ebeltoft.
Marshall: Ebeltoft.
Ebeltoft: And I'm a homeowner in --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 22 of 33
Marshall: Excuse me. Ryan Ebeltoft?
Ebeltoft: 1251 Crestwood. Meridian.
Marshall: Thank you, Ryan. Appreciate the help.
Ebeltoft: Yes. So, my wife and I are the ones that are going to be living in this home
and I just wanted to address and say a couple things about it. I understand that there
were issues with the dilapidation of the property. That did happen. When the
association went down and the property changed hands to another gentleman, at that
time it did not get watered, it did not get the proper treatment, until Cortland, my father-
in-law, took over the project, where he began to improve on it by putting houses there,
which at that time improved everybody's property value and nobody had any complaints
about that. So, the problem existed with that way before we had anything to do with it.
When you come into the subdivision it looks like a beautiful new single unit home and it
doesn't do anything but add value to the neighborhood. As far as a renter goes, you're
not going to find a better renter in the neighborhood, simply because we are right
upstairs and whoever we rent it to, if it's not family, there will be strict guidelines for us,
because we don't want any riffraff in our basement. We would be very, very strict on
that. We don't want it to look like to duplex. We don't have any intentions of remaining
it as a duplex for too long. We -- I put blood, sweat, and tears and so has my family into
getting this house that we can growth as a family and as we grow we can grow into it. It
is large and it fits our family just fine. My father-in-law has lived in the neighborhood for
18 plus years and we'd like to do the same, along with his sister. And I think what
happens a lot of times is people are afraid here -- hear that word -- as soon as the word
duplex came up everybody had a problem with it. Nobody had a problem with me
putting my dad down in the basement and helping out a sick guy. But as soon as we
have to attach the name duplex on there, I understand that that scares a lot of people.
But as we have gone through this process, we have been approved and looked through
and we were zoned for that -- the zoning, met the requirements, and we are meeting
requirements for that, we understand that there was concerns as the project evolved, as
we went from an outside door into a full kitchen. So, that did cause some issues. But
those are the things that we need to address as far as that goes. Whether we are
improving or not improving on the property, it's obvious that the property -- the
neighborhood is being improved on, because of the three houses that are there. There
is more dilapidated tennis courts, weeds, and dying trees and there are two trees left on
the property and we were doing everything we can to keep those trees alive. So, I just
appreciate your time and just want you to know that we, as a family, are doing
everything we can to make it a positive thing for the neighborhood, because we are part
of the neighborhood. Thank you.
Marshall: Just a second here. I think we have a question. Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you. So, there was a lot of concern about parking. So,
how do you address that, the issues that came up tonight?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 23 of 33
Ebeltoft: So, the way that it states is that for the amount of bedrooms that we have we
need six parking spots. With our setbacks we are a foot short and we were not aware
of that until, obviously, as this evolved. So, that is the problem, that's where the
compliance will come in. And so we have 19 feet, where an average parking spot they
would want 20 feet, but a parking spot is actually nine feet. So, we understand that they
want 20 feet and we were just not able to get that. If we need to do something, we are
happy to do that, but, like I said, this is what -- that's the concern is whether we have the
parking that's -- that's what should be addressed. So, we have done -- we have pulled
that cement as far as we can and also keep in mind that we pulled it around the side of
the house as to not make the front of that house look like a parking lot. We don't want it
to look like a duplex, so to pull it around to the side there with two parking lots, allows us
to keep those vehicles hidden.
Marshall: Commissioners, any other questions?
O'Brien: I guess the only other issue Ihave -- not issue, but observation, I guess, is -- is
the fact that, number one, people have talked about loss of value of their homes. I
haven't seen anything that -- that -- any documentation about that particular instance
that would say that would be true or not, so -- but if you were living down the street and
you came into that subdivision and saw that, what would you feel?
Ebeltoft: If those that are not at the meeting tonight and those that don't know what's
going on and we tell them that we are moving in as people walk by every night, when
we tell them that there is an apartment downstairs they are amazed. They don't realize
-- it does not look in any form that there is an extra apartment or anyone living
downstairs. It doesn't look -- it doesn't have the look of a duplex. It looks like a home.
It is our home. So, as far as me living down the street next to it, I would have no clue
that there would be anything, other than a single resident's home there and that doesn't
bother me. If it doesn't affect me, then, it doesn't bother me.
O'Brien: Have you ever thought about talking with the neighbors and asking what --
what it is that they need for you to do to make it --
Ebeltoft: We had an open house and I got to speak with a lot of them and not a lot of
concern was addressed at that time. The biggest concern was the -- the dust. They are
tired of the dust. I mean it's true, for the last five years one house or another has been
under construction in there and because we are doing this as -- on a very strict tight
budget, we are doing 90 plus percent of the work ourselves, it's taken us over a year to
do it. We apologize for the dust. We are getting that remedied as soon as we can
where the construction needs to be complete for us to do that, so -- and that was the
concern -- the largest concern that we had from -- from the neighborhood that we could
find.
O'Brien: That's all I have. Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 24 of 33
Marshall: Now I know I'm going to slaughter this again, but I'm going to try. Mr.
Ebeltoft. Close. Just a quick comment, sir. Again, I like the idea that you would want to
do this for family that you are going to be a live-in resident that it's going to be your
house, you were going to be taking care of it. But we as the Commission have to
consider this as simply a duplex somebody's building. Circumstances change. You
know, our -- we all have the best intentions and we have to consider this as a stand
alone -- here is a duplex this position and I think probably some of the overriding issues
right know are parking and coming in after the fact, trying to get that space in there and
trying to address that. And that is of issue and it is something we need to work through,
because this has not been approved as a duplex location, it has been approved as a
single family residence and we are asking for a Conditional Use Permit to allow the
duplex. So, I do -- I love your idea, you're trying to take care of family, I like the idea
that, you know, hey, if you can make little better ends meet by creating a duplex and
living in that, but at the same time we have to look out for the best interest of the
community and now some of those are affordable housing and having that availability
and location and so those are some of the things we are going to have to consider.
Thank you,
Ebeltoft: If there is anything that we can do at this point to allow that -- you know, to
make that happen, we are -- we are happy to do that as well. We seem to think so.
Freeman: I have one more question --
Ebeltoft: Sure.
Marshall: Mr. Freeman.
Freeman: Is there -- is there permanent landscaping planned for when you're done with
the construction? I guess it's a two part question. And has that been discussed with
staff?
Ebeltoft: With -- what is required has been discussed.
Freeman: Okay. Thank you.
Marshall: And the last person signed up is Angie Ebeltoft. And I think I have
pronounced that three different ways now. From the audience she feels that her issues
have been addressed and that is the last of the people signed up to speak. Is there
anyone else that would like to speak on this subject at this time? In fact, now that
everybody has spoken, I would like to call the applicant back up to have a few minutes
to address any issues that might have come up. That is your -- again, I'm going to have
to ask you name and address for the record, so we can get started and --
Pauline. Ernest Pauline. 3130 North Alecia Avenue, Meridian. 83646. I have
appreciated the comments of everyone tonight. I believe we have heard some
emotional comments, some with foundation, some perhaps without, but they certainly
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 25 of 33
have a viewpoint and we would like to be sensitive to that. I would like to speak to the
issue of the parking to begin with. We do have options. Even tonight, speaking with
Bill, we could extend one of the parking stalls a few feet into the lot. That would insure
that the second vehicle desiring to park would not be obstructed, and it would help to
shield, to a certain degree, the view of the parking that does occur. We all know that
when people build houses with garages they seem to fill them up with things and not
cars. It happens all the time. You can go through that same neighborhood and you will
see when a garage is opened it's storage and not parking and where do those cars
park? They park in front of the house on the driveway or in front of the house on the
public street. And you can't control that. We feel that we do have a certain amount of
control by creating the parking that will be appropriate and it's an equal means of
meeting the intent of your parking regulation. We believe we have done that with the
storage in the back of the house, which will encourage our son and our daughter to put
storage in the basement, to park in their garage. So, we believe the impact will be
minimal on the neighborhood when it comes to parking. In fact, I believe it could even
be shown that this unit would be probably less than the normal demand on parking,
especially if it's an elderly person or a handicapped person or even a couple who only
have one car. So, there are many scenarios that you can paint to look at the parking
situation. We do support and sustain staffs recommendation. We believe that it is an
equal means of meeting the intent of your parking requirements. We would like to be
good neighbors. We believe our son and daughter -- daughter-in-law and their family
will be growing there and the Walkers enjoy having their family close by, so I believe
that that's going to be the case for many years. I realize, however, as Commissioners
you have to look at long term. I do believe that there are many benefits that we have
mentioned before. This will be an affordable housing for people wanting to live in our
community and I believe that it's a worthy project. If you drive by and look at the house,
it's an excellent design, it's a nice addition to the neighborhood, and I believe over time,
after it's landscaped and the dust goes away -- or the dust settles, that it all will be well.
So, I would be happy to answer any follow-up questions that you may have.
Marshall: Commissioners?
O'Brien: Not right now.
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Freeman: No questions.
Marshall: Mr. Pauline, thank you.
Pauline: Thank you.
Marshall: All right. At this time everybody from the audience got an opportunity to
speak. Commissioners, it is time for us to have a little discussion here.
Newton-Huckabay: Are we going to close the public hearing?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 26 of 33
Freeman: Close the public hearing.
Marshall: Do I hear a motion to that?
Freeman: Mr. Chair, I move that we close the public hearing.
Marshall: Do I hear a second?
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Marshall: Commissioners, it has been moved that we -- moved and seconded that we
close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye. Opposed. Ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Marshall: So, Commissioners, the public hearing has been close. Comments?
Newton-Huckabay: May I have some housekeeping type questions for just -- so I can
form one.
Marshall: Please, Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, please, go ahead.
Newton-Huckabay: Bill, if this stayed a single family home, wouldn't they -- they would
be required to provide less parking -- is that -- because it's being defined as a duplex is
why all the parking is required. So, a home this large, if it were to stay one single home,
would be -- would require less parking?
Parsons: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, correct, if it was a single family four
bedroom residence it would require -- code would require two car garage and a 20-by-
20 parking pad.
Newton-Huckabay: What if it were a five car -- or five bedrooms?
Parsons: If it exceeded -- if it was five plus bedrooms, it would require a three car
garage and a 30-by-20 parking pad. So, six parking spaces.
Newton-Huckabay: And this one has eight?
Parsons: This one has to comply with six.
Newton-Huckabay: Six. Okay. And, then, Anna, you made a comment early on that --
that it wasn't the secondary home or the mother-in-law home kind of thing. Why did it
not meet those -- those standards? Well, you know, the --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 27 of 33
Parsons: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, I can answer that for you. I had
commented in my presentation to you that there are provisions in the ordinance that
allow of secondary dwelling units. Part of those standards is it's limited to 700 square
feet. It can only be a one bedroom unit. And, then, you would only have to provide one
additional parking spot. So, they would need five. Well, in this particular case, the
basement unit is 1,100 square feet.
Newton-Huckabay: So, the unit itself is too large?
Parsons: Right. And we discussed those options with them and they just couldn't make
it work, unfortunately. And, then, again, with the outside door and some -- the kitchen
that we saw, typically you can have a full blown kitchen, but you can have some kind of
little nook or something, but if we typically see afull-blown kitchen it's there for a unit.
Newton-Huckabay: So, this home is it --
larger than what was originally approved in
that's --
it's not -- or these two homes are not any
square footage for the one home? Is that --
Parsons: That is correct.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Parsons: Yeah. Except the original home plans showed an unfinished basement.
Newton-Huckabay: Unfinished basement.
Parsons: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: How would the process work if you purchased the home, moved
into it, and decided you wanted to the finish the basement as an apartment, how would
that -- would you apply for a Conditional Use Permit and --
Parsons: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, let's -- let's take that example. Let's say
they did construct this as a single family home with the unfinished basement, they'd sell
the home and someone comes to the building department and offers a permit, more
than likely Daunt would send them up to us, we would review their plans. Because this
is an R-4 zone, a duplex is a conditional use in that zoning district, so they would have
to pre-app with staff, just like the applicant did, and they would be informed of all the
regulations they would have to comply with in order for that to be converted from a
single family residence to a duplex.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Marshall: I have a quick question of -- Bill, it was mentioned that there are duplexes
somewhere in the proximity. Do we have any visuals and where and location -- how
close or what kind of proximity are we talking about? I mean --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 28 of 33
Newton-Huckabay: It's the ones just on the north side there. Northeast corner.
Parsons: Chairman Marshall, Commissioners, I didn't say they were duplexes, Isaid -- I
conveyed that they were single family attached.
Marshall: Single family attached.
Parsons: Yes. And the difference between the definition is a unit on its own property.
Marshall: Right. So, those are directly to the north and east there?
Parsons: Correct. Kind of kitty-corner across the street and north along Franklin.
Newton-Huckabay: I think I got all my questions answered.
Marshall: Commissioner O'Brien, you appear to have a question or a comment.
O'Brien: Yes. Okay. I'd like to get back to the landscaping. So, there has been an
approved landscaping plan, is that -- did I see that, Bill?
Parsons: Commissioner Marshall, because this is a duplex, it doesn't require -- and
those are local streets, it doesn't require any street landscape buffers. So, basically,
when they landscape it should be landscaped just like you would see any single
residence home out there.
O'Brien: Yeah. I guess I was referring more to the other part of the area, especially
around the parking -- if the owner had any plans for -- can't ask him now, but I was just
curious if they -- it seemed to be a big concern of the neighborhood about what it's
going to look like when they are done, if anything.
Parsons: On their site plan they did show landscaping with some trees and some
shrubs there. At this point we didn't evaluate landscaping with this.
Marshall: And, Commissioner O'Brien, I do recall the applicants did address that in
saying that they were going to place some shrubbery and some vegetation around that.
O'Brien: Okay. That's all I have.
Marshall: Questions or comments?
Freeman: Yeah.
Marshall: Mr. Freeman.
Freeman: I have comments, if it's my turn.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 29 of 33
Marshall: You have the floor, sir.
Freeman: You know, Iguess -- I understand there is some sensitive issues here and I
want to reassure everyone that I did my best to listen to both sides, so you have all
been heard and I just want to preface my comments with that. I guess I will start with
the fact that this is an R-4 zone and, correct me if I'm wrong, staff, but part of the
definition of an R-4 zone is this: The purpose of the residential district is to provide for a
range of housing opportunities consistent with the Meridian Comprehensive Plan. I
heard some objections based on the fact that this is an R-4 zone, but I think I need to
point out that an R-4 zone does not disallow a duplex or these sizes of lots. I heard a
lot of comments about concerns about property values and a lot of those concerns had
to do with the fact that there are going to be renters in here, that there has been some
dilapidation and dust, there is a lack of landscaping, but these are all very small lots.
But I think it's important to point out that those aren't really zoning issues. None of
those are. While there are some renters that I realize probably don't care, as was
stated about the property, I -- you know, there are renters that do care. I, in fact, am a
renter and I'm a renter in what I consider to be a very nice neighborhood and I mow
lawn. You know, it depends on the renter and we can't make decisions trying to foresee
the character or discipline of future renters. I might point out, too, that even your homes
would be subject to renters moving in should you so choose. That's a right you have. If
you let your landscape dilapidate down to just dead grass and dirt, planning and zoning
isn't going to come after you for that. That's for your homeowners association. If you
park on the street, that's not something that we would get involved with. We are
required to make sure that they have the proper number of parking spaces for the
intended use. So, having said that, in my mind here is what the differences really are
between this being a single family residence and a duplex. The appearance of the
home really isn't changing significantly. What this comes down to is maybe an
additional parking stall and I heard comments, you know, it doesn't fit, it doesn't work.
But, honestly, when we look at parking requirements, the only thing we are talking about
here is 12 inches in order to honor the parking setbacks on a stall. A car can still park in
12 inches. That does still work. And that's an accommodation that staff will recommend
when we can see that there are some minor issues there. But the stall is still there. So,
even though they are small sites, they can still accommodate this use and it's an
allowed use and I understand your concerns. Most of them having to do with renters,
but I can't make a decision based on whether there is a renter in here or a resident in
here. That's -- that's not my job. Our job is to make sure that zoning code is honored.
In this instance it's my opinion that staff has done a great job of working with the
applicant to come up with a solution that, frankly, works and is allowed and Iwould -- I
would recommend approval of this based on those comments. That's all.
Marshall: Thanks for your comments, Commissioner Freeman. I -- Commissioners,
personally, I agree. I do feel there is nothing we can do, whether it's renters or not, I
have seen wonderful renters, I have also seen absolutely terrible homeowners. The
outside appearance of this house is not changing. Again, the big issue is parking. And,
again, as long as we can accommodate what is required by code -- I do have some
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 30 of 33
consternation about the -- going about this after the fact. This should have been
designed as a duplex from the beginning, but since it wasn't we are here and what's in
the best interest of the city as a whole, I tend to lean towards approval.
O'Brien: I don't think I can add anything to do that. I think Commissioner Freeman --
and Ihave already said the way I feel, too, is that, yeah, the issues are -- that have
been brought up beyond our need to supervise, if you will. It's not something we do.
So, I'm in agreement with both Commissioner Marshall, the Chairman, and
Commissioner Freeman about why we are here and I can't see disallowing this because
of issues that are outside of our realm. It just doesn't -- doesn't fit. I agree that there is
concerns about what would happen if they sell it and somebody else moves there. We
have no control over that no matter where that happens or where it is. So, I'm in
agreement that I think I'm in favor of passing this. That's all I have.
Marshall: Thank you. Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: I just want to make a comment that -- for those of you who live
around -- around this. I understand and have lived through what you're going through.
When you live in a subdivision that's been in the city for a long time and it's in some
evolution, it is very frustrating to watch homes -- you know, homes go to renters that
may not take care of them. It's frustrating to watch homes that people own and they
don't take care of them and here you have spent many years living in your home and it's
very difficult. I think I have to agree with you that from a personal standpoint I think this
type of home is something that we need more of in the city, but that for me comes from
just -- I do not feel like we have enough opportunities for families to have extended
families and I happen to live across the street in my current neighborhood from a house
that was built specifically for that and it recently sold to -- to a family, again, with an
extended family, because there were so many limiting opportunities in the city for folks
to keep -- that could afford it to keep -- to keep parents or in my case, which would be
children, living -- you know, living with them throughout their life. So, I think for that
reason this type of -- this type of home will always have a unique demand, because of
the fact that it is a basement and an upper level home, because it's always -- it is going
to attract a unique buyer and that's one that possibly does have special needs there.
That said, I think the parking is really the only issue that could be the deal breaker for
this and I feel like we could potentially be at an advantage having it be -- I honestly
cannot remember approving a subdivision with ahouse -- this large of a house with an
unfinished basement on that lot and I was on the Commission when that original
subdivision came through. That's a lot that had a -- if it stays a single family home it's
highly likely that it would have -- it will have less parking requirements and more
vehicles surrounding it without any parking spaces. So, we -- it's a crap shoot, it could
go either way. I cannot, just merely on the fact that it's -- that it's parking, vote against --
vote against this is -- this development. I am hopeful that it will improve the -- this
corner. Ihave been very hopeful that some things would also happen on the north side
with the townhomes there. I think they have also been left to -- a lot of them have been
coming rundown. So, I have to vote in approval as well. But I do understand. It's a
very frustrating situation to be in as a homeowner and there is -- it's very frustrating.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 31 of 33
Marshall: So, Commissioners, do we have a motion? I would like to point out that the
parking -- the two stalls are required based on a single bedroom in that apartment and if
there were two apartments -- if that den were ever turned back into a bedroom, then,
code requires four additional parking stalls, not two. So, we want to the possibly make
sure that in some form that that remains a one bedroom facility.
Newton-Huckabay: I don't know -- am not certain that we have the legal ability to put
something like on a home.
Freeman: My thought is if something were to change we would address it at that time.
Marshall: I know just the man to ask on this.
Baird: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. Just like the previous
questions that you had if it were built into a duplex later, they would have to comply with
the conditions that that change would require. So, at such time as the den is turned into
a bedroom, then, the additional parking requirement could come up. That's the way I
see it. I'd invite planning staff to give their input as well.
Canning: Chairman Marshall, Members of the Commission, the request before you
tonight is for a duplex, with the basement unit being a single bedroom. So, you can
certainly condition it to be a single bedroom. And that's --
Newton-Huckabay: That would be an additional Conditional Use Permit.
Canning: Right.
Newton-Huckabay: Got you. Okay. My mistake.
Marshall: Okay. Just wanted to point that out. That was just something that came to
my mind. Beyond that, I would ask do we have a motion?
Freeman: Sure. Mr. Chair?
Marshall: Commissioner Freeman.
Freeman: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve
file number CUP -- I think I'm on the wrong -- I'm on the right one. CUP 10-005, DES
10-028 and ALT-10-003 -- if that is, indeed -- is that one of the options that we are
considering here?
Marshall: I think we are just approving the CUP. The alternate compliance goes
through Mrs. Canning's desk, I believe.
Canning: They came in concurrently, so you can --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 32 of 33
Marshall: Make comment or approve --
Canning: -- approve them.
Freeman: I'll just -- as presented in the staff report for the hearing dated July 15th,
2010, with the modifications that the basement unit remain a single bedroom unit. I
further move to direct staff to prepare appropriate findings document to be considered at
the next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing on August 5th, 2010.
Marshall: Do we have a second?
O'Brien: Second.
Marshall: It has been moved and seconded to approve Cup 10-005 and additional --
Freeman: And all the others.
Marshall: And the others submitted to that. All those in favor say aye? Those
opposed? CUP 10-005 is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Public Hearing: ZOA 10-001 Request to amend and add to the current
provisions of the Unified Development Code (Title 11 of Meridian City
Code) related to the portable classroom standards outlined in UDC 11-4-
3-14 Education Institution by City of Meridian Planning Department:
Marshall: All right. At this --
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Marshall: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: Oh, we have one more. I'm sorry.
Freeman: We have one more.
Newton-Huckabay: We have one more. I forgot.
Marshall: Yes, we do. Very quickly here. I would like to open the public hearing for
ZOA 10-001 for the sole purpose of continuing it to August 5th of 2010.
Newton-Huckabay: So moved.
O'Brien: Second.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 15, 2010
Page 33 of 33
Marshall: It has been moved and seconded to continue ZOA 10-001 to August 5th. All
those in favor say aye. Those opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Marshall: One more motion. Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, I think you were --
Freeman: She probably wants to make that motion.
Marshall: Yeah.
Newton-Huckabay: I move we adjourn.
Freeman: Second.
Marshall: It has been moved and seconded that we adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
Those opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Marshall: We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:37 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
APPROVED
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