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Thomas PropertyW A G E N D A MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JULY 7, 1992 ITEM: MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JUNE 16, 1992: (APPROVED) 1: JOINT SCHOOL DISTRICT: APPEAL CONDITION FOR ROAD PLACED ON CONDITION. USE PERMIT. (TABLED) 2: PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT ON MERIDIAN GREENS # 3: (APPROVED) 3: PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT PARKSIDE SUBDIVISION.W/VARIANCE: (FINDINGS TO BE PREPARE] 4: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL -'USE PERMIT BY BODINE OIL & FOODMAKER,.INC: FOR DRIVE-IN RESTUARANT(JACK -IN THE BOX) (NEW FINDINGS TO BE PREPAREI 5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION & ZONING W/ CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR PUD BY CAPITAL CHRISTIAN CENTER: (APPROVED) 6: FI14AL PLAT ON PHASE # 1 CANDLELIGHT SUBDIVISION: (APPROVED) 7: FINAL PLAT ON PHASE # 1 SPORTSMAN POINTE SUBDIVISION: (APPROVED) 8: ORDINANCE # 580: ORDINANCE ANNEXING & ZONING THE MAWS ADDITION: PRELIMINARY PLAT NEEDS APPROVED IF ORDINANCE PASSED: (APPROVED) 9: RESOLUTION # 147: RESOLUTION RENEWING THE ADA CITY/COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ORGAN I Z AT I ON:(AppROVED) 10: PRE -TERMINATION HEARING: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: (APPROVED) 11: APPROVE THE BILLS: (APPROVED) 12: BID ON WELL # 14: ( APPROVED AND AWARDED) 13: DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT ON HUNTERS GLEN: (APPROVED) 14: LYNN THOMAS: DEVELOPMENT AT 2600 EAST OVERLAND ROAD: ( SEWER CONNECTION APPRO 15: HOMEOWNERS OF MERRYWOOD SUBDIVISION: ( DISCUSSION HELD) 16: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: 'i MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JULY 7, 1992 PAGE 17 ITEM #13: DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT ON HUNTERS SLEN: Kingsford: Counselor, what's your recommendation' Crookston: I have reviewed the proposed agreement. I think there are a couple of things that need to be fine tuned and I think we have these worked out but I'd like another day or two to read it. It would be my recommendation that the Council approve the Mayor and City Clerk to sign the agreement based upon my approval. The Motion was made by Tolsma and seconded by Yerrington to approve of the Development Agreement on Hunters Glen subject to the approval of the City Attorney. Motion Carried: All Yea: 17�M #14: LYNN THOMAS: DEVELOPMENT AT 2600 EAST OVERLAND ROAD: Lynn Thomas: I am a spokesman for a family concerning the proposed development of the thirty five acres located in what ^^eridian Comprehensive Plan is identified as the mixed used areas between I-84 and Overland Road. We are currently seek -Ing from the County an approval of the planned residential development, which consists of a mixed use residential development of single family dwellings, duplexes and townhouses. We have obtained a permit to appropriate water. Our specific request this evening is to seek an endorsement of the land use concept for the project by the City of Meridian and to gain preliminary approval of a municipal sewer service. This approval would create two immediate benefits. The first of which would assure to Ada County that Meridian does in fact support the develcpment plan and would service the units with City sewer. The second benefit would be that the approval would send a message to the adjacent neighbors that an annexation into the City is in fact achievable in the near future. �\ Tolsma: This plat that we received looks like there a couple of culdesacs that are terribly long, and I have a problem with that. Thomas: Over the months we learned that it is important to have a secondary access and we would entertain an conditions for which you propose. 'olsma: Are you putting your own well in there 1 7. r _..: t :. `_ . _ . 7 t ; MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JULY 7, 1992 PAGE 10 Tolsma: 1 think we'd have a hard time with that, because we can't monitor your sewer system by how much goes do'e,n the sewer system if we are not providing the water- for it. Eng. Smith: The areas that we've dealt with just sewer wit`out water measurement have primarily been single family residences and we've just assessed them on a flat rate basis. We haven't dealt with a subdivision such as this that woi,:ld have it's awn water system. Kingsford: I've discussed with you the possibility of amending your application with water resources and getting a permit for a more substantial well that we might be able to buy, certainly a condition upon annexation, under our ordinances that you would hook to City water as well as City sewer. Have you pursued that? Thomas: we applied for frankly as much water as the agencies wound allow based on the number of units. Therefore our ability t o obtain water flows -excesses or draws out of that system, we are only given a permit for a certain flow. Permit has been granted for 16" casing, 3501 deep. We will provide for water flows adequate for the Fire Department. Tolsma: Did you have a plot site for the well? Thomas: The permit we have is generic enough to allow us to place it as I understand anywhere on the thirty five acres. '�ingsford: Again, when we talked last, = indicated to you my desire to have this be annexed to the City and have these hearings done here rather than at the County. Have you pur^seed that? Thomas: That I most definitely have. (Discussion on square footages - see tape) `orrie: This shows only one entrance for this, is that correct' Thomas: Yes. Again, if it is deemed necessary to have two access points upon condition. C ookston: Have you applied to the County for- approval of th.s also? ^di ema-,.,.. Ne ';ave 6o approve to provide services to i'-. MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JULY 71 1392 PAGE 19 <ingsford: mince it's in our approval. Would restate what tonight? area of impact it has to meet it our is that You are asking frog Thomas: Comment, ; from the Counciso he we Ada County Planning and Zonin can disclose them t° g and our spec evening is to seek an endorsement y' request this Project by t;he C', t of the land ise concept for �i�y of Meridian and the municipal sewer services. gain, p, -el i,inary approval of The Motion, was made by Corrie and Of the developer to hook seconded by Tolsma to review pprove of the development andcsee thatrtheonditioned upon to get annexed, P g y e:Khaust every avenue Motion Carried: All Yea: "o°kston: closely 1 Seriously think the City needs to look at this very Y because,.i: s high densit in the past discouraged in outlyingdareasevelpfr°� which the Cit this is something that the Y has think Cit e City. I think the possibilities allowing to weigh very heavily• I that location of tend to be g this at this -'at total area. indicative of what the Juncture, at �ity want; ir. ;Discussion - see tape) ITEM : HOMEOWNERS OFME RR ,v WCCD Vandenaker, S �.aton I'm here basically speaking t~ie people about some ' and =rrigation water. °f our Problems we f°r I want to know have out there with "'e may not get the where we y °f ordinance in affect water until next year. s and, we've heard is ,.here any t mac.,7rTier^ of some kind eCy' y.'at would re YPe y� quire a developer to put a ad jacent? Concur"n g the railroad when the a.�on- about weed problem=_, subdivision is Cieek- 'Niemann:- That property is in the cc ant 5• 'vender"Waken": I s there p_�blic sidewalk any requirement f� they ^ut °n the north side' "r a fence aloe_ taw r up a fence or" some type of a berm?+~� City requ., that `1 -ng -mord. No. <=.nd0r aker. .Ts there an �r igation water 0-1 `- - - u t . 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FORREY): 4. OVERVIEW OF MERIDIAN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND EAGLE INTERCHANGE AREA (WAYNE S. FORREY): 5. FIVE MILE TRUNK SEWER PROJECT/PRELIMINARY ROUTING ALTERNATIVES (DAVID ROYLANCE): 6. PROJECT 'COST, SCHEDULE AND CONSTRUCTION COORDINATION (DAVID ROYLANCE): 7. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS (DAVID ROYLANCE AND WAYNE S. FORREY): NOTES/COMMENTS/QUESTIONS: A. B. C. D. E. F. FIVE MILE CREEK SEWER MEETING DECEMBER 14 1993 The special meeting for the Five Mile Creek Sewer Trunk Line Project was called to order by Wayne Forrey: Others Present: Howard Foley, Ronald Thomas, Juan Qularce, Dennis Butterfield, Mark Bowen, Ed Jenkins, Cary Hooper, Bill Hawkins, Con Couch, Bob Brown, Bob Van Houten, Janice Van Houten, Robert Barker, Leroy Miltin, Richard Moore, Elwood Rennison, Morgan and Marilyn Plant, Diane Bail, Paul Girdner, Richard Konopacker, Bill Robinson, Sylvia and Dennis Edson, R.F. Mader, Tim Hoogland, Marty Goldsmtih, Jan McClusky, David Roylance, Gary Smith: Forrey: Good evening, its about 3 minutes after 6:00 and we will get started. There are a few seats around the room here. My name is Wayne Forrey, I'm the Planning Director of the City of Meridian and some of you may have received a letter in the mail inviting you to this meeting tonight and thank you for attending its nice to see the room almost full. Tonight is a Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission meeting it starts at 7:30 that is why on the letter I put from 6:00 to 7:00. I think if we can keep this concise our presentation will be short I assure you to leave I think enough time for question and answer and we should probably be wrapped up no later than about 10 after 7:00 to let the Commission come in and get ready for their meeting tonight. Let me introduce Dave Roylance, stand Dave. Dave Roylance is president of Roylance and Associates Engineering firm. They are doing some leg work out in this area in terms of future sewer, I also know of another engineer doing some work out here and that is Pat Doby. Pat do you want to stand, I think over the months Pat has been doing some leg work as well. So we've got some technical people here tonight to help. Gary Smith is the City Engineer, I don't see Gary he might be coming in a little later and Gary will be here to maybe help if there are any engineering related questions. How many of you live in Greenhill Estates, in Greenhill Subdivision just to get a flavor here of the composition, probably a good half. How about Locust View, good representation. And in between, alright. How many of you own property south of I-84 in the Eagle road area or Overland Road, several. Okay we will be talking about that tonight. Let me give you quickly an overview of City of Meridian Annexation policy, this is #2 on the meeting agenda. Some cities have a policy of force annexation and that is when they determine its in the city's best interest to Annex somebody they will do that. Boise City has that policy, Meridian does not. The City of Meridian only Annexes property when a property owner requests to come into the City. There have been a few instances I think at least 15 to 18 years where the City of Meridian picked up an enclave, a piece of property that was totally surrounded by the City and the State Law does allow a city to clean up its boundary so to speak its kind of like a donut hole and the middle is in the County. I don't know the circumstances the property owner may or may not have requested it but the City did Annex. That is the one departure in that policy that I know of. In the letter that you received we talked Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 2 about an Annexation path and we will be exploring that tonight, but I can assure you it is not the City of Meridian's intent to get into Locust view or into Greenhill Estates and Annex. You as property owners in the future may see an advantage of coming into the City°'and then you would have to make the request. Most likely the City would not Annex you because those lots are very large, they are a large development, it is not economically feasible for the City of Meridian to Annex large lot development. Typically a City needs 3 to 3 1/2 dwelling lots per acre to get enough tax revenue to, justify, a� police and fire, a library, a street light, you know general government services. That is why the new subdivisions you see around the community are in that 3 1/2 to 4 units per acre, Cherry Lane out in that area, to give you an idea of density. Something that was developed in the County at lower densities is not economically viable for a City to Annex. Number 3 on. your agenda, overview of sewer development policy. Some cities have a policy of extending trunk lines out into to some areas to stimulate economic development and growth. Boise City has that policy, Meridian has that policy in selected instances, but overall it the developers or the property owners responsibility to get sewer to their property. Now in some situations, like we'll. talk about tons ht there is a late comer's agreement where a{ ' baht ehd,.r,ajof trunk"' like extension: ante ��thery woo c t to that a, year, or ; car Mand hook .onto ew r' t "fit somedne- ° had That contract or agreement is there to help the person that front ended that cost to re -coop some of their investment. The City does participate in those types of agreements and that can be financially attractive to a development consortium. One of the objectives we want to achieve tonight is to get everyone talking about an area of Meridian that needs sewer, it is an area we want to grow a certain way. It has a constraint, that constraint is sewer. And a' -partnership with property ownery and the City we'd like to see some good community development take place arid,.: several property 014ners can come together during r g d Q �o� Cit e,. a. late cobf mers agreements scot ate y, The fourth item, overview of Meridian comprehensive Plan, that is the map -that you see here on the far end of the room. A lot of time a lot of public input, workshops have gone into the planning of Meridian and one of the things that is always important in development of course is sewer, sewer drives development. So we analyzed all of the areas in our community in terms of their sewer ability, the drainage area that they are in and how to get sewer to certain parcels. I'm going to show you now a piece of that map that will probably show your home or property. Mam, could I get you touch a few lights right there, that might help. Can everyone Sewer Meeting , December 14, 1993 Page 3 see that? Thank you. This is the Eagle Road Interchange right here, this is the Meridian Interchange, the water tower the park right here, the railroad tracks, Franklin Road this is Greenhill Estates right here and Locust View here. This dark line that you see right through here is a conceptualized location of a future trunk that we refer to as the Five Mile Trunk because its generally in the Five Mile Creek Drainage, the low drainage spot through that area. '00, City' ntent is to stimulate, development ofWI at ent re area so`ewea rer�e'4ery` nective 'trend `i'i "tfie. o� About 95% of all new applications that the City receives is residential.development and when you have a Police Department and a Fire Department and a library and all of those things depend on property tax,:.. the rbsidential development doesn't contribute enough to the tax base to justify the demand that those new residence create on 'those departments. One thing that off sets that is Commercial and Industrial growth. Boise is very enviable because they seem to be able to get Commercial and Industrial development without even asking for it and it really enhances the tax base there so property tax to the homeowner doesn't have to go up so much. In Meridian we want to reverse that and get more Commercial and Industrial development in the community and keep taxes low but still be able to fund those services, so given that the Eagle Interchange is very important to future business in the community the City would like somehow to get sewer to that Interchange area. And when I say Interchange area, I don't just mean the Interchange, butlike to see sewer get here is Overland R ad ntd the a '. south o the Interchange as well as into`' the hAt The sewer ends right now at about the railroad tracks and Five Mile Creek, so the trunk sewer has got to come somehow in this area these aren't exact boundaries under the Interstate and then branching out pretty much like you see here to overall provide sewer service to this area. One of the items that stimulated some discussion was the potential for St. Lukes Hospital development and that is shown right here, right at the end of the pointer. They may or may not proceed with a schedule that would demand sewer next summer or the summer there after. We know thip-area cannot develop unless there is sewer, so the City os proceeding, Dave Roylance and Associates I think is your client St. Lukes Hospital? Roylance: Yes Forrey: Okay they have been hired by St. Lukes to analyze this area and see how to get sewer out there. And then we thought we should open it up for broader public participation and then the letter went out and that is why we are all here tonight. hospital iso just one minor piece of this your property is just 'as important to the City of Meridian as the hospital site. Although the hospital has said they would financially contribute the cost of that sewer trunk, so there is one party that said they will put Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 4 some money into it. The Meridian City Council is another party that has committed some funds to help jump start if you will this sewer trunk line. eed some other properti ou�rte _A to come e°.to .i©ok "*a a costs and ,loin in a partne�sif.'l'. opeftaly uric er the Ynterstale and headed south yth4. Now the Annexation path that I spoke about, this hospital indicated to the City Council that when they develop they want to develop in the City of..Meridian=not in the County. They want -to come into the full fellowship of City services. We need an Annexation path to accomplish that. There are a.couple of routes that could happen, the dark areas' that you see on the map here are existing City limits, although, Meridian grows so fast any map we do is outdated soon. This area right here at Locust Grove and Overland Road is already annexed into the city. I believe it was the Moon property that, anyone know of the Moon family. So the City limits is right here, one possible annexation path is to get this property and then this property, this property, and this property, once we have those annexed into the City then we are contiguous because State Law does not allow a highway or an Interchange like this to separate, 2 parcels. So that means we can touch. That is an annexation path to come over and pick up the hospital site. Another opportunity would be to talk to property owners up here along Franklin and Eagle Road and come back this way but our preliminary discussions indicated that there are some people that did not want to come into the City over in here and these property owners generally indicate a willingness, to come into the City. So if that is the case, that would be the City's annexation path to start opening up City development around the Eagle Road Interchange. And the key then at this point is the location of the sewer and some alternatives and I want Dave Roylance to now take a few minutes and walk -through same alternatives, a potential schedule and costs and then we will open it up.for-.questions and answers, Dave. Roylance: Thanks Wayne, my name is Dave Roylance, I'm a civil engineer here'dn Boise with Roylance and Associates. We have been asked by St. -Lukes Hospital at this time to look at the feasibility of getting sewer to their property which is this 34 acres right here. But in doing that there are some benefits to any other parties, and I know of at least 1 or 2 and possibly some that I don't know about that would be interested in getting sewer to their properties through here or down here, I don't know of any interest here. The first step in this process is I think what we are doing right now is just to talk to people and see what interest there is and sine s we "'ie sewer Card >,�01,,1ectively work together and share the 00et to get,to here and then down into the freeway to tis"ree and po�'Y� h,e . It could be that there are a lot' of different parties that would be interested in one area and Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 5 not another and that would be normal. For example, if there was 6 people all together that had a desire to get sewer on their property and all 6 of those people would be served to this line, then itwould be reasonable that these costs could be distributed to 6 people. If at that point there were 2 or 3 properties owners here that would benefit from this extension and they may have to partner up on their own or with the help of the City to fund the cost from here to here. This property would hope to find interest with sonebody'in this area, possibly here to help participate in this cost to get the sewer over to here or possibly along this line. If there were properties to be served down here, they would probably help in the cost from here to somewhere in here which point some .people may drop out and not benefit from the line being extended further down. `,; ,,'think t general terms that is one of'.the ,purposes of meeting here tonight"is to try and see who 'h "-Tht�-mkt in participating and in what line and if there is an Interes't'"irt. all and then seeingif there is enoiu h interest' to ` g go out an�c"ux 1 d all of these lihei°or­dhk'of these. Everything you see here is very preliminary, none of this is cast in stone, this alignment in general follows the City master plan and so it is believed that this is very likely to happen from here to here. To service this property we could take off at this point for example and follow this blue line. We could possibly follow it to here break off and go this direction or we could break off here and go this way. The same thing with bringing it down this way this may not be the only way to go. At this point there hasn't been any detailed engineering done so any cost we talk about tonight are going to be very general, so -I mean please keep that in mind that when we decide upon an alignment and who the players are and who is ready to pony up for the cost from here to here and there to there and so on. That would be the time to go do some studies and re -fine the cost. We think.to build the sewer from here to here will be in the neighborhood of $300°,000 that is very rough, but what that would include we think would be cost of putting in the sewer line, the cost of putting in the manholes, a limited amount of funds for right of way'dcquisitions for engineering for administration those kind of things. So in very rough numbers we think with the $300,000 to go from here to this point. To go from this point to here, this alignment, we think it would be $250,000 it includes the same items, cost of the sewer, cost of the manholes, reasonable cost for right of way acquisition, engineering, administration. There are some other people that have been analyzing the cost going this way I don't recall the cost to go from here to this area. That would be a cost associated with going under the freeway, that will be quite a substantial cost for this road crossing right here. Did you have a question? Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 6 . Property Owner: What size trunk are we talking about? Roylance: This is an 18 from here to here. Property Owner: One other question, what happens to Five Mile Creek? You are going right along it, are there any recurring rights? Roylance:' Well, we're going to have to deal with all those issues. Now, Property Owner: There is a lot of wildlife that live along there including a lot of water fowl. Roylance: It is very possible that this can come under the wetlands issue, with the Army Corp of engineers and permits and all of that. Property Owner: That is all floodplain from Franklin Road, where you start out there. Roylance: Well, sewers can be built in floodplain, if you have options it is better not to for obvious reasons but usually sewers follow rivers because typically rivers are the low point of drainage and that is what ultimately the fluid needs to go hopefully not in the river. Property Owner: (Inaudible) there is some very high ground right there. That is a bluff almost right there. Roylance: Well, this is very conceptual, when we go out and study it, if we do, we could find it just not feasible. At our preliminary looking at it we think it can be done, but all of those things you just mentioned are very valid. If we (inaudible) by the Army Corp of Engineers to be a wetlands drainage, then we are going to have to deal with all the issues. Did you have a question? Forrey: I might add in the letter we sent you one of the questions we asked was if you would consent to allow Roylance and Associates onto your property to start looking at those fine tuning issues. And if any of these red lines or green or blue are next to your property I'd like you to ask yourself could I let these guys take a look so we could refine this information. Look at the elevation and those types of things. If you can tonight be prepared to tell us well that would be super, I've got some letters already, people have called and said yes you can come onto my property. We want it passed before we start surveying crews on your property. Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 9 Roylance: Yes, dight. Forre.y: Any other questions that we can start maybe answering? Yes sir. Property Owner: (Inaudible) sewer trunk line area coming off Franklin Road you dropped the cost and alignment, are we talking about 3 private residences per acre there, up here along Franklin Road we, are all 1 acre, down here in Locust Heights we're all 1 acre or better and if you want to drop something or Miss Griffen who. owns that property wants to drop some density housing in there I don't think it conforms, and if he is on this wanting sewer in that configuration I don't think it is fair to us. Forrey: What the gentleman asked was a land use compatibility question. Where you have a 1 acre subdivision here and a 1 acre subdivision here and an empty undeveloped parcel between. The calculations that have gone into the sizing of this trunk were based on the fact that thee would be 4 units per acre density maximum density into the design of the pipe. Now some parcels will never develop sometimes you end up with a duplex where you thought you'd have single family. So from a planning standpoint when you throw into the mathematical calculations about 4 units per acre it seems to work out. We recognize that your density will stay at 1 unit per acre.-. Now to answer the other half of that, compatibility, the city in any decision that we make, the Council or any recommendation that I would make or Gary Smith we take in the neighborhood issues and compatibility. Not suggesting there would be 4 units it is whatever the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council and neighborhood involvement would approve in that area. But we can assure you that when the trunk sewer is built it will be designed to allow at least 4 units per acre density. Yes sir. Property Owner: I'd like to ask a question, Dave, when you were speaking of the alignment of the (inaudible), I got the impression you were speaking more of is it really going to be where it is. My question is that"I guess there a lot of other things JUB did a study on a trunk line and the City Council adopted that as being at this point best und-erstood (inaudible) for the trunks to lay and to get to Overland and Eagle Intersection, so I'm getting the impression we are almost thinking of rewriting what on the trunk line what may have been our next (inaudible). Roylance: I'm not sure I understand the question. Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 8 Forrey: I can answer part of that. You are referring to the faci1ity`.plan,,,which is a sewer master plan. It has not yet been adopted by the City Council but is on the verge of it. And it looks pretty much like this as well, but they are not fine tuned they're just taking the low spot. So it just shows a trunk along Five Mile creek and if there are repairing issues and environmental it would change, but generally that is the corridor that the trunk is designed to follow. Property Owner: I guess I'm curious are you talking tonight about old sewers and annexation do I understand that right? Forrey: Yes Property Owner: Are you saying that as you go through this process it will determine the best sewer line given everbody's wishes and desires and then you will also seek annex along that sewer line, you are not just going to put a sewer line out there and hope to annex later? Forrey: The city would not intend to annex along Five Mile Creek, that is just the path of the sewer, then annexation path we are pursuing right now is south of Overland to the east to pick up the St. Lukes Hospital site in order to get them sewer they need to be annexed into the city. So that is one issue, the other issue is how to get sewer which would come through County property. Property Owner: But they are not running the same? Forrey: They are not running the same. Sir. Property Owner: The (inaudible) for the sewer seems to have started out being the hospital. Forrey: That is part of it. Property Owner: All right part of it, now given your rating for 18 inch pipe based on 4 units to the acre regardless of that what percentage of the anticipated use and the new area would be generated by the hospital? Forrey: A, very small amount. The majority, the city anticipates in the Comprehensive Plan commercial development both north and south sides of that interchange and mixed uses along Overland Road and along Eagle Road and those uses would generate quite a bit of a sewage flow. The hospital itself, some people would consider it a wet industry you know a heavy water user, and they might be to some 11 Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 9 extent, but the reason for an 18 inch trunk here is because I have another map that will show, because the Five Mile Trunk has a large drainage area. ''Now the red that you see here is generally the city limits, the'urbanized area. The Five Mile trunk drains everything inside of that blue. So it is a very large drainage area, here is the hospitaljust one little piece of that. So the reason that is 18 inch here is because it is picking up everything back clear down Victory Road almost a half a mile south of Victory Roadat some point in the future. And that all went into that calculation of size. Roylance: Its almost 4 square miles in size. Forrey: Okay, 4 square miles, yes sir. Property Owner: Wayne and David, if your anticipating that the sewer line is going to be required (inaudible) but you are also needing annexation south of the freeway and Overland Road, why wouldn't you consider the cost bill inclusive south of Overland road (inaudible). Forrey: Good point. Roylance: I can answer that, we can consider that, I mean this scenario that I talked about is just one. I mean if that makes sense if that is fair and reasonable then we would consider doing that. I think that whatever formula we arrive at it has to be fair to every party. It'wouldn't be fair that one person or one entity pay to disproportional to share the cost. And if that is the way it worked out then that is what we would do. Property Owner: Under that scenario you would then develop sewer lines out to the freeway. Roylance: Yes, once we have all the information together and we look at the whole thing if that was a fair and reasonable way to go then we would do that. This scenario that I talked about was just one of many, if there is justification why our plan should contribute to the cost in here then we will do that. Property Owner: I think it makes a 100%, you are going to require that annexation now, that -is the only way to get it. Roylance: That is a little different on the scale of what we are trying to accomplish tonight. We just to have to make sure that whatever we do I think it needs to make sense for all the parties involved. For example, I'm not sure that we sure that we would want to pay an excessive fee just for the privilege for annexing M Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 10 over here. We realize that its benefit, and we also realize that we could benefit possibly to you and other homeowners here by participating in the cost. Forrey: I'd like.,to ask a question, one of the alternatives that Dave Roylance looked at is a sewer line on the south side of Greenhill Estates and you can see it, it is a blue line from here over to the hospital property here. Do you, anyone that lives here, do you see any advantage to trunk sewer that close to your subdivision? Property Owner: You got the advantage there because that is downhill all the way to the corner. Forrey: Are you having any septic problems or failures? Property: No, but as far as that blue line goes that is a perfect route because it is downhill all the way. It is perfect drainage there. Forrey: Is there anything we should know about, the city, in making a recommendation on alignment would it be to your advantage to have it there as opposed to somewhere else? Property Owner: There is an irrigation ditch that runs down that blue line, (inaudible) Property Owner: Under the State irrigation ditch its a lateral., irrigation user association. laws you can't do anything to an without authorization from the Forrey: Correct. I'm not sure that is Property Owner: You've already annexed North Golden Road over there between south Locust Grove and Eagle Road, you said that was annexed across the freeway. Forrey: South of the freeway. Property Owner: There is a privately maintained ditch that starts at Overland Road and south Locust Grove subdivision and nobody has notified us that it has been taken over and its 3n open ditch that we have to maintain. It would be nice to know what we are going to do there. Forrey: I'm going to note that, is there a name of that ditch? Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 11 Property Owner: Well it belongs to (inaudible) Forrey.: What is the name of the water user associationer? Property Owner: Locust Grove Water User Association. Forrey: Same question in Locust View Heights, anyone that lives there do you see"an advantage to having sewer? Property Owner: Well we are the one where you have the pointer at. Roylance: He is on the west end of Locust View Subdivision. Forrey: We are down here, right here. Well, that is not the property that has been annexed. Property Owner: This other one that comes across the freeway right to Locust Grove on Locust Grove Road. Forrey: I guess that is 20 or maybe 30 acres, this is what has been annexed, this has not been annexed yet. The city would like to have the property owner request annexation. Property Owner: What have been the efforts on that, Dave or anybody as far as annexing that property? Roylance: I don't know, I know we put together a couple of a different maps to show possible annexation routes but we really haven't pursued that. We figured this was the first step to process. Property Owner: I have a question, did I understand you gentleman you first started out saying the city has committed and also St. Lukes has committed financial support for a portion of this. Forrey: That is correct. Property Owner: But that amount is yet to be determined, you don't know how much or what percentage (inaudible). Forrey: Yes, the question was let me repeat. The question was asked, the gentleman asked if the city and St. Lukes hospital have committed financial support to help extend the Five Mile sewer and the answer is yes, the City has and the hospital recognizes that they would have to pay a portion of that cost. The City in the budgeting process reserved funds within the sewer account to contribute to the project. That amount is there, we talked about several amounts $50,000, $70,000, $80,000 I don't know exactly Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 12 where the ball will drop on that, but because it depends on the cost.and the amount of users and there is a lot of things going into that formula. But certainly there is another finance partner, the thing we are missing now is some other property owners. Property Owner: Well what portion (inaudible) Forrey: The whole thing, it would apply to the entire project. Property Owner: Tht!"thing is you are incorporating St. Lukes needs into your future expansion.plan. Forrey: And.I guess I could put in a cliche term the City funds would be to help jump start the project, sir. Property Owner: It seems you are looking for partners and you are asking (inaudible). I lived in Greenhills for almost 10 years when we put in our septic system (inaudible) I live near the ditch, (inaudible) I have not observed anyone replacing their septic tanks. Forrey: Okay, your input would be that it is not needed, that is good to note and where is your lot? Property Owner: Right between the half acre and the acre, its on the (inaudible) Property Owner: Maybe I'm missing something, it has to do with the alignment plan and live in Greenhills. I'm still not sure what that does for me and I . participated in paying for that sewer now do I participate in paying for the sewer alignment to my house? We seem to have gotten up to the neighborhood but what do we do from there? Forrey: �J,� ,,r. ti]at if you are in the city limit A your p46pertx, is within =60 tette €if a c r l:e� t . ' Y a the owner pays iha cost' off" $t:. sewer you. are in the County and there is a sewer line next to your property and there is several of those around the city and you want to connect we don't go out and ask you to connect you are in the county but if you se the need your septic tank has failed and you say I'd like to hook onto the city line we allow you to do that but you pay double the cost of a,city resident. so we would not go out and force you to connect, if that blue line was in today we would in the design have a stub out a courtesy stub out to the backyard of everyone of the homes there and it would just have a cap on it and it would never be used. Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 13 Property Owner: And then if we were annexed Forrey: If you were annexed you would have to connect, yes and you would pay that cost. Property Owner: I have an unrelated question here, where is your domestic water coming from? Forrey: Several=•areas, the City has budgeted funds and we will construct this summer or the summer of 1994 a new water well right here in the Treasure Valley Business Park about where Pine Street is extended about a.l/4 mile east of Locust Grove. There is also an existing water well in this area that, Gary is that owned by Ed Buwes, okay its owned by Mr. Ed Buwes and he has indicated several times to the city that if its a good producing well he would sell that to the city and we are looking at that. Property Owner: (Inaudible) Forrey: I'm not sure, I think we are looking into it. There is a possibility. Do you know anymore on that Gary, on Ed Buwes well. Smith: Its a 16 inch diameter well about 450 feet deep. Forrey: Okay does that help? So we are taking steps in this water budget it is about 220,000 the city budgeted to develop a new well. That would help pressurize that area. Property Owner: As part of your annexation possibilities also you talked about the Buwes property to come across Eagle Road to the east and then to St. Lukes, isn't that what the city did when the (inaudible) was interested in.building the mall there. Forrey: I believe that was correct. Do you know Pat or Dave on annexation, all I know Howard is that it was rejected there was some problem, the question that Howard asked is why not annex where this is alreadytin the city why not come south of Eagle Road and use this as an annexation path. For one reason or another if the city attempts to work that out I think we found some uncooperative property owners. At the same time a couple property owners down here were saying we will come into the city,so we shifted gears easier. Property Owner: This domestic water of this area south of the freeway along in here is that going to be city water? Forrey: Yes, and any property that would develop out(inaudible) in i .I' r .4. sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 14 our water master plan we identified the need for a new water well somewhere in th. e vicinity of the intersection of Eagle and Overland Road and any property owner that would develop in the city as a condition of`approval would require that they donate a well site to the .city and then the city would budget funds to develop that well, just like we:are doing o Pine Street. Property Owner: All these wells going in what is that going to do to us people out here that has our own individual well, in Locust View Heights and Greenhill Estates, what is that going to do to our wells. Forrey: That is'a good question, about a 1 1/2 year ago when the city was undertaking its water master plan, Gary Smith hired I think one or 2 hydrogeologists professor from Boise State University. They looked at the strata of water below Meridian and some of our older wells are down in the 300, 400, 500 foot level and there are others, maybe some of you have that same depth, there fear was as the city continue to pump all that water that strata that it could reduce the water level in private wells. So their recommendation was that the city should go down into the 700, 800 foot level into a separate strata of water to avoid any appearance of reducing,your individual wells. So the last 2 wells that the City has drilled and this new well number 16 budgeted funds to go down almost 800..feet,which we don't need to do but we have done it as a protection for the City and property owners. So we can say we are.not in the same strata of water and if you are losing water it is not our fault. 'I think its. good planning and engineering on the city's part. That is why they are so expensive. Property Owner: I know myself and a couple others on there we are very shallow as far as wells (inaudible) Forrey: You are 'in the 100 Y: Property Owner: No, about 72 feet deep Forrey: Yes, that is shallow. Property Owner: and in 69 when I drilled that well I had water standing 10 feet on the surface, I don't know what it is now, I haven't tested it (inaudible) With all this development going on around here everybody has got a well. Property Owner: Item #6 here the project cost, I went over them with Gary and they are very rough, the schedule of construction coordination; I would love to know who is in charge of what part and when the due date is final for St. Lukes identify where St. Lukes ends and;where the city goes forward with either the other Sewer Meeting December 14, 1993 Page 15 property owners and who is in charge of the rest of it, right of ways, wetlands or whatever. Roylance: Well, for the time being, I guess I would be in charge of the engineering issues not to say if some property owner wanted to hire a different consultant then you know that would be up to them. So we don't really have all of that nailed down, but for the time being I've 'been .asked to lead the charge on this and to try and coordinate this. If.other property owners wanted to expend the work to their area .I -'d be happy, the firm would be happy to work with them and -do that or we'd be happy to work with other firms to collectively get that done. I'm sure the City will be involved as a City Engineer and a consultant will be involved in all of those things. Property Owner: For as far as a schedule of construction for a timeline would you see St. Lukes and then whatever. Roylance: We'would like to have facilities to the St. Lukes site by late summer, fall of next year the quicker we can but realistically, things are going to have to go real right to get that done. So we'll say late summer of 1994. Property Owner: I fail to see any reason at all of the direct route be the very first consideration without any doubt. The meandering line of the other seems to be expensive involved with all kinds of road blocks be it EPA or whatever and I'm sure they all need to be considered, that is direct that takes care of it they are the first users they are primary interest and (inaudible). Roylance: More or less there are a lot of things to be considered other than just shortest distance, a lot of things come into it as far as cost to go alpng the route whether or not we can get right of way. acquired. whether or not we have wetland issues whether or not there is a better and bigger benefits for other peoples verses one way or another. So all of those things really need to be ironed out, these are just shown from (inaudible) than from here to here might be the quickest cheapest way to go. On the otherhand if people benefit by running the sewer to here to here and we collectively cause that to happen than it might be better to go here and go that way. So there are a lot of issues that need to be (inaudible) (End of Tape)