2009 11-05Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting November 5, 2009
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of November 5, 2009, was
called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman David Moe.
Members Present: Chairman David Moe, Commissioner Joe Marshall, Commissioner
Tom O'Brien, Commissioner Wendy Newton-Huckabay and Commissioner Michael
Rohm.
Others Present: Ted Baird, Machelle Hill, Anna Canning, Sonya Wafters, Bill Parsons
Scott Steckline and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance:
Roll-call
X Wendy Newton-Huckabay X Tom O'Brien
X Michael Rohm -Vice Chairman X Joe Marshall
X -David Moe -Chairman
Moe: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to welcome you to the regularly
scheduled meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission for November the 5th. At
this time I'd like to open the meeting and ask the clerk to call roll, please.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Moe: Next item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. There is one change
within the agenda this evening and, folks, in the audience, Item No. 5, which is the MCU
09-002 for Avondale, will be continued to our regularly scheduled meeting of -- I believe
it's December the 5th. It would be the -- December the 3rd, actually. That will be the
3rd. And we will do that in order of the agenda tonight. Other than that,
Commissioners, that is the only change to the adoption. So, can I get a motion to
accept the agenda as amended?
O'Brien: So moved.
Newton-Huckabay: So moved. Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve the adoption of the agenda. All those
in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
A. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
09-009 Request for Conditional Use Permit approval for adrive-thru
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November 5, 2009
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facility within 300 feet of another drive-thru facility for Fred Meyer
Pharmacy Drive-Thru by Fred Meyer Stores, Inc. - 1850 E.
Fairview Avenue:
B. Approve Minutes of October 15, 2009 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting:
Moe: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. We have two items there.
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for the approval of CUP 09-009 for the Fred
Meyer Pharmacy and, then, the meeting minutes of our October 15th Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting. Any questions, comment, Commissioners? Okay. If
none, can I get a motion to approve the Consent Agenda?
Newton-Huckabay: So moved.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in favor
say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: Before I open the public hearings this evening, there is some people that haven't
-- may not have been to a planning and zoning meeting, so I was just going to give kind
of a rundown of the format of our meetings here. I will open the public hearing and,
then, ask the staff to do a brief overview of the hearing itself. Once that is done I will,
then, ask the applicant to come forward and the applicant will have 15 minutes to review
the project with the Commission, at which time after the 15 minutes, then, there are
sign-up sheets in the back, anyone that would like to speak in regards to the hearing will
have three minutes to do so. Once I have gone through the list of any sign-ups, I will
ask one more time of the audience if there is anyone else that would like to speak to
that hearing. If none, then, we will, then, close the public hearing and the Commission
will discuss and, then, make motions on that hearing at that point.
Item 4: Continued Public Hearing from September 17, 2009: AZ 09-004
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 0.98 of an acre from R1 in Ada
County to C-C (community business district) zone for The Baby Place by
Brent and Coleen Goodwin - 270 N. Linder Road:
Moe: So, having said that, then, I would now like to open the continued public hearing
on AZ 09-004 for the Baby Place and start with the staff report, please.
Wafters: Thank you, Chairman Moe, Members of the Commission. The first application
before you is an annexation and zoning request for .98 of an acre of land from the R-1
zoning district in Ada County to the C-C community business district in the city. The
property is located at 270 North Linder Road on the east side of Linder, about a quarter
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November 5, 2009
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mile north of Franklin Road. This is an aerial view of the property. The applicants are
currently operating a birthing center on this property and have been for quite some time
in the county. The subject property is designated as mixed use community on the
Comprehensive Plan future land use map. The proposed C-C zoning district is
consistent with that designation. The birthing center is considered a heath care or
social service use and is listed as a principal permitted use in the C-C zoning district.
The applicant has submitted a site plan showing the existing structures, parking,
landscaping and fencing. Currently there are two access driveways to Linder Road.
Only one is proposed to remain, as shown on the site plan. A 25 foot wide street
landscape buffer is required adjacent to Linder Road and 25 foot wide landscape
buffers are also required along the north and south property boundaries adjacent to
residential uses. Alternative compliance maybe requested if compliance with the buffer
requirements is not feasible, which in certain areas it probably isn't going to be on this
site. Staff is recommending a development agreement with annexation of this site. The
Exhibit B of the staff report has a complete list of development agreement provisions.
The applicant has submitted a written response to the staff report. No other written
testimony has been received on this application. Based on the applicant's response to
the staff report, staff is requesting a development agreement modification to one of the
provisions. Number 1.2B, which requires cross-access to be provided to the properties
to the north and south for future interconnectivity and to reduce access points to Linder
Road, be modified to include the following language: The easement shall be granted at
the time of future construction on the site and/or expansion of the existing parking lot,
rather than requiring the applicant to provide the easement at this time. Staff is
recommending approval of this application with the development agreement provisions
listed in the staff report and the modifications to the development agreement provision
number 1.2B as stated. Staff will stand for any questions the Commission may have at
this time.
Moe: Thank you. Are there any questions of staff at this time, Commissioners?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Marshall: No.
Moe: There are none. Thank you very much. Would the applicant like to come
forward, please? And, please, state your name and address for the record.
Kuglin: Jason Kuglin, 270 North Linder, representing the Baby Place. I don't currently
have anything to present, really, other than what the staff has already said. We have
agreed to all the provisions that they have provided.
Moe: You agree to everything, even the last thing that was changed on the cross-
access?
Kuglin: Yeah. That's what we agreed to today.
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November 5, 2009
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Moe: Okay. Commissioners have any questions of the applicant?
Newton-Huckabay: I don't.
Kuglin: Thank you.
Moe: Thank you very much. We do have some people signed up to speak from the
public. Gary -- is that Reimer? You may come forward. And, again, for the record,
name and address for the record.
Reimer: My name is Gary Reimer. I live at 230 North Linder. That's the property just
south. I own the two adjoining properties just south of their annexation -- proposed
annexation. And I'm opposed to it, because we are a small subdivision, there is about
ten acres there, and mainly on the noise factor, plus the devaluation of our property
values. Right there -- I don't believe there is anyone here that would buy a potential
home next to a 7-24 business and I would say a good portion of their business is late at
night and the noise is -- sometimes -- it's happened two or three times that we have
been awakened by the blood curdling screams of a mother in birth and that is
something you do not want to hear and they say they will change the parking lot -- right
now the parking lot is just outside my bedroom window. If they put the parking lot out
back, their driveway still is also nine feet from my bedroom window and I'm not talking
about traffic out on the road, but traffic beside my bedroom window and -- sorry about
this. And not only on the noise, but there is a lot of times they have incidents where
they can't handle, so they have to have emergency vehicles come in at all times of the
night and I understand why the emergency vehicle people are not quiet, they want to
get their business done, but they are very loud and, as I say, their driveway is nine feet
from my bedroom window and we -- in our subdivision, we kind of let everybody do what
they want to do, but we are a county subdivision and we want to stay that way and I
mean there have been -- and nobody -- nobody lives there. This is a business right now
it's pitch black, nobody -- there is not a permanent resident in that building. The only
time anybody's there is when they have a client and they actually run two businesses
out of this place. They run a small woodworking shop, too, and he wants to put a 40 by
50, two story building out back as a woodworking shop. I don't know if that was ever
proposed to the council, but that will not only increase the traffic again, plus the noise,
and my main concern is the devaluation of my property. I have lived there for 33 years
and it's taken my wife and I a long time to earn and have our residence there. We don't
want it devalued in this way. Thank you. Any questions?
Moe: Any questions from --
O'Brien: I have a question, Mr. Chair.
Moe: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: Pardon?
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November 5, 2009
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Moe: Go ahead.
O'Brien: I thought I read here where the business is only going to be open Monday
through Wednesday. Is that -- did I read that correctly?
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioner O'Brien, the applicant stated that in their
application. However, I'm sure there is extenuating circumstances also.
O'Brien: Yeah. I would think so. Okay. How should I read that, then?
Watters: You probably should address the applicant with that question.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. That's all I --
Moe: Any other questions of this gentleman?
O'Brien: No.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Mr. Reimer, do you run any kind of business out of your
home?
Reimer: I run a -- have for 15 years -- a small -- I mean very small -- especially with the
economy almost nonexistent -- woodworking shop.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Reimer: And the most traffic I have ever had in my driveway was two cars. But this is
not an 8:00 to 5:00 business that they want to run.
Newton-Huckabay: Do you have any problems with the businesses across the street
and the amount of noise that they generate?
Reimer: When they first moved in we did, but they have mellowed out and the auto
place has moved back further in behind the rest of them and they have even cut down a
lot of their lights on the main road, so we don't have any problem with them.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Reimer: Years ago they -- I had a problem with one of the employees practicing his
guitar at 11:00, 12:00 o'clock at night and I asked him to go -- walked over, tried to be
polite and ask him to quit and he did. No problem.
Newton-Huckabay: And I just have one more question. You think the best use of your
property, given all the -- what's gone on around you, is as residential property?
Reimer: Right now it would be classified as resident.
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November 5, 2009
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Newton-Huckabay: Yes.
Reimer: The whole -- there is like ten acres there. In time somebody will come in and
take us all out. I have no doubt about that. But it would be better for all of us if we were
all taken out at the same time, because we got prime commercial frontage all along
Linder, from the railroad tracks clear to Franklin. But as it is right now we are a
residential subdivision and I'm a resident owner. There is only two resident owners in
our subdivision. The other houses are rentals.
Newton-Huckabay: Thank you.
Reimer: Thank you.
Moe: Any other questions, Commissioners? Okay. Next on the list was Margaret.
M.Reimer: I'm Margaret Reimer. I also live at 230 North Linder. And I would like to ask
the applicant -- I couldn't hear what he said where we were sitting. Did he say that he
lived at that residence at 270 North Linder?
Moe: I don't know, but we will ask him when he comes back up.
M.Reimer: Okay. Because we didn't think anybody lived there, you know, when --
when they aren't using the facility for the birthing, that we didn't think anybody was
occupying the house.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, he gave the address as the address of the business, not
the address of his residence.
M.Reimer: Okay. I couldn't hear what he was saying. That's why I was asking.
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah.
M.Reimer: One of our main concerns is, you know, we are in the county and we are
afraid that if you bring in this one parcel in that you will want to take in the rest of us and
we really don't want to be put into the city, that's an expense for us. My husband and I
are both at Medicare age, you know, since he retired we are on a fixed income. His
business is -- he's going to be closing it down soon, because it's -- you know, at his age
that's what he's decided he's going to close it, so we won't have that income anymore.
So, we are opposed to that, because we would have added expense of we are brought
into the city at that time and if we had to sell our house for medical reasons, we would
have to sell it at a loss. We are afraid, because of the birthing center being next door,
that nobody would want to buy it at the price it's worth. I have another -- a small
complaint that the lights are left on at their facility a lot of times all night and it's like --
like Isaid, it's right next to our bedroom window. We like to sleep with our window open
for air year around and so we have the blind up and so we have had to build up a -- my
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November 5, 2009
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husband built something to kind of block the light to keep from coming .into our bedroom
window. A lot of times we are awakened at 4:00 in the morning, 2:00 in the morning
when there is a birthing going on -- not just by the woman having the baby, but by the
people that are there, because the woman is having the baby, they are out by our
bedroom window talking, smoking, banging their car doors, especially if it's cold, they
are running their cars to keep warm and so forth. So, that's been a disturbance for us
also. And, like I said, it's nine feet from our bedroom window. Any questions?
Moe: Any questions?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Moe: Thank you very much. Jim Witt.
Witt: My name is Jim Witt and I live at 300 North Linder on the north side of the Baby
Place. One thing that always has kind of amazed me a little bit or maybe I just missed
it, was the fact that I never did see a public notice that that was going to be a baby --
Baby Place, whatever you call it, a -- you know, it was kind of set up and there we were,
to my way of thinking. And there is noise at night. Doors slamming and stuff and we do
have a -- they built a nice fence now through there, which they have done, and the only
problem we have is we do have an open gate in between my property and their property
and I'm not saying what goes on there at night, I don't know, but I do miss a few things
once in awhile. No big things, but, you know, rakes and -- but there is a lot of people
around there. I mean it's like McDonald's around there sometimes. And some of the
stuff comes over the fence -- well, milk shake cans and stuff, you know, I suppose they
go down to Arctic Circle and get a thing and throw them over the fence when they get
up there and get to talking or whatever and I did have two horses and I -- the horses go
down to the one end of the field down there and one day I went out there and here was
a hammer laying there and -- a little square head. I don't -- I don't know what kind of
hammer -- what that is. I think it's probably a sheetrock hammer. I don't know what it
is. And I thought, well, I know what they are doing, they are throwing it at the horses,
because they are in that end of the field. Well, I picked the hammer up, threw it back
over the fence, and the next day I come out here and here is the same hammer thrown
over the fence again right where the horses were staying. Well, you know, I don't go for
that. If you're going to -- leave animals alone. If you want to fight with me, you fight with
me, and -- well, the traffic and stuff is pretty good sometimes. I mean there is a lot of
people in there and that's, basically, my concern there is the traffic and like that. I'd as
soon they leave my horses alone. That's all.
Moe: Any other questions of Mr. Witt?
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Witt, do you have any kind of business out of your home --
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November 5, 2009
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Witt: Do I have what?
Newton-Huckabay: Any kind of business that you run out of your home?
Witt: No. My wife was on the -- she's -- let's say big time. I have lived there 40 years.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Have you had any contact with your new neighbors and
discussed how you could -- you know, discussed the issues between you, other than
bringing them up here at this --
Witt: Well, I mean I just go out and pick it up if there is -- if there is milk shake cans or
whatever over in my -- I mean I know that's -- a lot of wind comes through there and I
don't deny that. Tumble weeds comes through and, yeah, you find that, but some of
them have still got the milk shake still in them, you know, so I know they don't come
very far.
Newton-Huckabay: So, as neighbors you haven't all sat down and discussed it
individually.
Witt: No.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. All right.
Witt: By and large they are good neighbors. I'm not saying that.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Witt: I think the people that come are there from everywhere.
Newton-Huckabay: Oh. Sure. Yeah.
Witt: And they are not just -- you know.
Newton-Huckabay: Do you think that the best use of your property is of residential,
given what's -- I mean long term, given everything that's going on around you?
Witt: I can't hear.
Newton-Huckabay: Do you believe the best use of your property in the long term is as
residential property, given all the development that has gone on around you?
Witt: I still can't hear you.
Moe: She's just wanting to know whether or not the -- your property is best suited for
residential, as opposed to commercial, in that area.
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November 5, 2009
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Witt: Well, for me -- of course I have lived there so long I don't know anything else, you
know. I'm over 70 years old and I -- you know, that's where I planned to retire. I retired
five years ago and it looks like I will have to move, because I don't think -- I'm going to
be run out of there, there is no two ways about that, you know. There is nobody that's
going to buy my place, that's the thing.
Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh. Okay. I have no more questions. Thank you.
Moe: Any other questions?
O'Brien: No.
Marshall: I don't.
Moe: Mr. Witt, one thing I -- just to do a follow up, you had made comment that you
hadn't received any notice of these hearings?
Witt: No. Not that I know of.
Moe: Okay. Well, the --
Witt: Well, this one I have, yeah, but I mean before the whole Baby Place was put in
there I don't really think that I was really notified that that's what we were going to do.
Maybe we did.
Moe: Okay.
Newton-Huckabay: That would have been acounty --
Moe: Yeah. That would be a county issue there. Okay. Thank you.
Witt: Thank you.
Moe: Next person on the list is Paul Stark.
Stark: Good evening, Commissioners. Paul Stark. I live at 5088 North Aberdeen Place
in Meridian. I'm testifying as a -- just a citizen of the city and I'm in favor of this. I think
that most of the concerns raised here tonight would be experienced by any neighbors,
you know, as far as lights on or doors shutting and things like that if it remained purely
residential, you'd probably have those same kind of issues existing. From the maps I
looked at it appears to be somewhat of an island of a few residents within -- all
surrounded by industrial use, at least for the most part, at least across the street is
industrial. And I guess the third point I'd make is I think a business like the Baby Place
is good for our community. It provides birthing alternatives and a lot of -- from what I
understand, at lot of the people that come to a place like this may very well be relying
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November 5, 2009
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otherwise on the indigent fee funds that the county has to pick up, the taxpayers have to
pick up, that it's a -- somewhat of a lower cost alternative to maybe some of the higher
priced hospital charges and the OB-GYN charges. There is a lot of folks that are
looking for more economical alternatives to child birthing and I think this overall could do
our community good and the taxpayers some good, because we have less reliance on
-- on, basically, public funding through hospitals and other ones. I understand the price
is considerably cheaper and -- and there is a lot of people that are watching their
pennies right now, so I think it's a good thing for the community and I would be in favor
of it.
Moe: Any other questions? Any questions?
Stark: Okay. Thank you.
Moe: Thank you very much. That was it for everyone that was signed up to speak. If
there is anyone in the audience that would like to speak, you're more than welcome to
come up and have three minutes.
Brower: Thank you. My name is Verlyn Brower. I live at 1153 West Bookhalt in
Meridian. I guess I would just like to stand up for the Baby Place a little bit, too. My
daughter works there as a potential -- I forget the term for it now. I'm sorry. Anyway,
she's studying to work there with them. These are some of the finest people. I have ever
met in my life as far as integrity and stuff goes and I would encourage the residents that
live there, too, if they have problems to talk to them about it. They would be appalled to
know that there is garbage being thrown over their fences and they would take care of it
for them. In fact -- and as far as missing items go, one of the workers at the Baby Place
the other day had a GPS unit stolen out of their dash, so I don't think it's the Baby Place
people doing it, I think it's traffic coming in along the side there. But I have just seen
such a neat thing. These midwives that work there, they give mom's alternatives to a
basic 9,000 dollar cost at the hospital. for a noncomplicated birth and their cost is about
3,500 dollars there and it's -- you know, not everybody believes that a birth is a medical
procedure, some people believe it's a life event and that's what these people try to
make it, uncomplicated and really anice -- really nice thing for the family and for the
mom. So, I think, too, that it's a great thing for the community and I think those issues,
you know, with the neighbors can be worked out. The people that work there and own it
are -- I serve as chaplain there for them, too, and they are some of the finest people I
have met that work with integrity and care about that community, too. So, I'd just like to
speak up for them in that respect.
Moe: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much.
Brower: You know, I think I can clarify one thing for you with the office hours that they
put down from Monday to Wednesday. That was one of the reasons I came up and
their clinical hours, when they do the baby -- the checks on the moms, the monthly
checks, that's the Monday through Wednesday. Yeah. They do that. And, then, the
other stuff is -- I mean you can't plan a birth and that's why they -- you know, that's why
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November 5, 2009
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they have their facility there is that you can have your birth and you don't have to have a
C-section because the doctor wants to go play golf. So, that's the issue there.
Moe: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Sorry -- no, you have already had your time,
sir. Would the applicant like to, please, come forward. Just for the record state your
name again for me.
Kuglin: Jason Kuglin. I actually live at 2474 South China Rapids Place, Meridian.
Moe: Okay. So, in regard to some of the questions that came up --
Kuglin: The one big issue I think at the neighborhood meeting, there was some concern
of the other properties being annexed, because this one was being annexed. That's not
something that the city is going to do or going to enforce. It was brought up again today
and that -- I like said, that's aside, because it's not really a -- it shouldn't be a concern,
because it's not something that city's in the practice of doing. They have been
operating there for -- for years. Neither one of the neighbors to the north or the south
have ever complained to them about noise or about lights or any of the issues that they
brought up. In fact, they have a pretty good relationship, as far as they knew.
Newton-Huckabay: Excuse me. Can you hold on for just a second. I'm getting hand
waves that they can't hear in the audience. Do we have any options to turn up the --
Kuglin:. I can talk louder. Is that better? Do I need to start over?
Newton-Huckabay: No.
Moe: No. Go ahead.
Kuglin: I don't remember where I was at. Oh. They haven't brought a formal complaint
to an entity or to the -- to the current owners. They haven't ever complained to them
about the noise or about any of the issues that they brought up this evening is the first
that I have heard of it and I've had discussions with them about the --
Moe: You made a comment that you did have a neighborhood meeting. Were the
neighbors in the neighborhood there?
Kuglin: The three that are here tonight were there, yes.
Moe: Okay.
Kuglin: And their main concern that they brought up at that time was the -- the forced
annexation of their property. There was no discussion of noise, there was no
discussion of any of the other issues that they brought up tonight.
Moe: Okay. So, the facility, is there anyone living in the facility?
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November 5, 2009
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Kuglin: No.
Moe: Okay.
Kuglin: And the hours of operation that he explained is correct. That's their -- their
standard hours of operation are Monday through Wednesday and they don't get to plan
when the babies come, so that's -- you know, when somebody goes into labor they
delivery the baby.
Moe: Are some of the concerns that they had in regards to lighting issue and whatnot,
are those things that can be rectified?
Kuglin: I think there is some easy answers if they were to bring those issues up to the --
to the owners. That's not something that they are going to be opposed to working with
them on as far as turn lights off. Brad and Colleen are very easy people to get along
with. You know, they would be more than happy to accommodate them.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: May I ask a question? Approximately how many births per week
are there at the Baby Place on average if you --
Kuglin: I don't honestly have an answer. I have to ask Colleen, but --
Newton-Huckabay: Can you do that, please?
Kuglin: I can call her.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. So, there is no one here from the Baby Place --
Kuglin: No.
Newton-Huckabay: -- that would know the answer to that?
Kuglin: No.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you.
Moe: Another question I am curious about, the intent of possibly putting a wood shop
on this property as well.
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November 5, 2009
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Kuglin: I haven't heard anything about that and I have done -- I have done all of the site
work and all that kind of stuff. That's not something that's been brought up to me. That
may have been neighbors talking about, you know, hopes and dreams. I'm not sure.
Moe: Okay. Commissioners, do you have any other questions?
O'Brien: I don't have any.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you very much. Can staff kind of walk us -- would
you walk me back through the parking and whatnot that's anticipated?
Wafters: Yes. Chairman Moe, Members of the Commission, there are four parking
spaces proposed on the site. They are kind of hard to see. They are in the darker area
here, kind at the rear corner of the building.
Moe: Okay. Thank you.
Wafters: And they do meet the parking requirements per the UDC with that amount.
Moe: All right.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, may lask -- Sonya, is that a change to what's currently existing?
Wafters: No. It is existing on the site, Commissioner Marshall.
Marshall: Thank you.
Wafters: It may have been recently constructed, but it is existing now.
Marshall: Any idea on how long that has been existing or some --
Wafters: I do not know. The first time I visited the site it was there a month or so ago,
probably.
Moe: Well, Commissioners, what do you think? Any other questions of staff or
comments?
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: I am confused on how you have a nonconforming use for three
years in the county. Did I -- and now we want to -- we want to annex just so we can be
a permitted use. Just kind of want to know how that happens, how we got here.
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Wafters: Chairman Moe, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Newton-
Huckabay, my understanding is that the business has been in operation for quite some
time, but they did not receive approval from Ada County and it's not an allowed use in
an R-1 zoning district in the county. I believe that code enforcement had contacted
them and I believe that's part of the reason they are requesting annexation into the city
to legalize the business at that location. I know that the county told me that building
permits for the expansion of the facility were obtained from the county, but occupancy
had not been granted, because they had pulled residential permits, instead of
commercial permits. So, they are just trying to legalize the business at this point by
annexing into the city with the C-C district.
Newton-Huckabay: So, if I decide -- and this may be an extreme example. If I decide
that I'm going to build a gas station in the county with residential -- well, I couldn't put
the gas tanks in, but -- and I operate it for three years and decide I want to annex into
the city, so it makes it okay to have my not permitted use a permitted use? I mean is
that -- it's the most bare bones -- you don't have to confirm that --
Wafters: I think that's a question for the applicant.
Newton-Huckabay: I mean I just -- I'll just continue on with my comments if I may. I
have noticed this when I drive down Linder and I, myself, thought that as far as the look
of that area of Linder Road, the Baby Place was an improvement and it kind of made
things look a little bit nicer, because it is a fairly rundown area in the city. I don't feel like
those properties have along-term future as residences and I don't think that's their
highest and best use and I don't think that's where they have their most value. But I
also don't live there and it's very difficult for me as a Commissioner, when someone
comes in and they live there and, you know, I don't really think it's -- I can't say, well, I
can have an opinion that that's not the best use of your property, but you go to bed
there and wake up there every day and to you it's the best use of your property, but I am
bothered when this happens that you have a nonpermitted use and the best way to
make it a permitted use is to annex into the city. If I understand correctly, your business
has been around for awhile and these are issues that as professionals I think you could
have dealt with a little bit differently and so I'm just -- that bothers me, because,
basically, what you have done is you have kind of forced those neighbors around you
and forced the city to accept what you have chosen to do with that property, when
maybe that wasn't the best -- maybe that wasn't the best use of it. And so I'm not sure
-- I don't have a problem with the Baby Place as a business, I actually think it's a -- I
think it's a -- it's an alternative and everybody needs alternatives and opportunities. So,
I'm really torn on what is the -- and, then, you have all the investment that's put in to run
a viable business, so -- they are frustrating situations forme.
Moe: Any comments, Mr. Rohm?
Rohm: I do have some comment. Number one, this is an application for an annexation
and based upon its compliance with ordinances and the Comprehensive Plan, it seems
to be a fit. The fact of the matter that they were a nonpermitted use in the county prior
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 15 of 24
to making application to the city for a permitted use doesn't really carry any weight with
me. I think that they are making the applicant -- the appropriate application for the use
of the property and it fits our city's guidelines and I think that from my perspective that
entire area will ultimately go that route and none of these adjacent properties are
subject to annexation just because. this is -- because of this application. And so I think
the primary concern for the neighbors were that issue over possible annexation
themselves, because they are adjacent to. I think that that can be put to rest and they
don't have to have that fear. So, from my perspective I think that it's a good idea and it
will bring the property into compliance and I'm in favor of it.
Moe: Mr. Marshall.
Marshall: Mr. Chair. I, too, am a bit torn, as Commissioner Newton-Huckabay is, in that
I don't like -- we have been breaking codes and we are going to shuffle it under the table
and say it's okay now. I don't like doing that. But, then, again, I am with Commissioner
Rohm in that I want to look at this as -- this has not been in the city, this has not been
our enforcement issue, and if this were a brand new application I believe it fits the
locale. I think if there were significant problems there should have been complaints to
the county and things like that prior to this. I think that the city coming in and forcing
annexation can also be put to rest, it's not going to happen, and, personally, I have seen
how that area is going to develop commercially eventually. It actually will over time
raise the values, I believe that that property will become more and more valuable as it
develops commercially, because that's the way it's going to go. Yes, I don't believe the
value as a residence is going to be retained, I think that's going to go down, but the
value the land itself is worth will go up as time goes on and I think that value will
increase and I would encourage Gary, Margaret, Jim, to talk to the owners and discuss
these issues with them. There, obviously, wasn't a lot of discussion on some of these
issues at the neighborhood meeting from what I understand and I do believe going
forward this is probably the best way to go with it, is to move forward with this as a
zoning application. Again, though, I am concerned as Commissioner Newton-Huckabay
said, I wish there was some remedy for that, because I don't like back dooring code
violations and, then, sweeping them under the table.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair. Commissioner O'Brien, before you speak, I -- correct me
if I'm wrong here, but the neighbor's concern about not being eligible for annexation, we
say that's not going to happen, but we cannot guarantee as a Commission that that's
not going happen.
Rohm: It's not going to happen via this application is what I was saying.
Newton-Huckabay: No, it is not going to happen via this application.
Rohm: Right. And that's the only -- that's as far as we can take it.
Moe: And that's all that we can do.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 16 of 24
Newton-Huckabay: Right. I just want to clarify that -- I mean it sounds if we are
standing up here saying that you -- this isn't going to make you eligible for annexation
and pretty much anything in the county, if it fits some guidelines, is eligible for
annexation and I think I would encourage the homeowners to understand what those
eligibility for annexation criteria are, but this application, no, will not annex it. But I don't
think we can make a blanket statement that that makes them ineligible.
Moe: I don't think that was the intent. It's --
Newton-Huckabay: Well, it may not have been the intent, I just don't want -- I don't want
these residents to interpret it that way.
Moe: Ithink you got your point across.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Well, I have never not been one to not want to make my
point.
Moe: And that's why we have given you every opportunity to do that. Mr. O'Brien, do
you have any comments?
O'Brien: Just -- just to reiterate what the Commission has already talked about. I'm
going to look at just the worth of the application itself. It's -- you know, we could wish
wash this thing around looking at the reasons why they are applying and we could be
right, we could be wrong, but it doesn't matter, I think, as far as fitting the
Comprehensive Plan I think it's agood -- it's a good move. You know, if they -- if we
didn't approve this thing and said, okay, you can't have that business there for whatever
reason, you have to think about the risk is pretty low, because you already know what --
the residents already know what's going to be there, because it's there, but you don't
know if they sold that off to another resident and built some residential homes around
there what you're going to get, because you may get some awful tenants next door that
are worse than a business and I have to agree with Commissioner Marshall about the
value or Commissioner Rohm, I forget which one of you mentioned it, but the value of
this property I think will be going up and just by the fact that these commercial
developments, this seems to be the case in most instances. I can't quote any particular
one, but I do believe that that's a plus, so -- but it's just a matter of the time -- the timing
of that when a person wants to -- to oblige development. Again, Ithink --Ithink this is a
good business for the area, I'd like to see it go through for the worth of the application
itself. Ithink --Ithink we need this kind of a business alternative for the people in
Meridian. I don't think I could add anything else to what's going on, but my comment is
that I'm for this. Thank you.
Moe: Okay. Thank you.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 17 of 24
Newton-Huckabay: I recommend we close the public hearing. We haven't done that
yet, have we?
Rohm: We have not.
Newton-Huckabay: On AZ 09-004.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on AZ 09-004. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: Depending upon who may make a motion, remember that there was a revised
point within the report. So, remember that in your motions, please.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Commissioner Rohm.
Rohm: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval to the City Council for file number AZ 09-004 as presented in the staff report
for the hearing date of November 5th, 2009, as amended by staff. No further changes.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 09-004 as revised. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed?
Newton-Huckabay: Aye.
Moe: That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY.
Item 5: Continued Public Hearing from October 1, 2009: MCU 09-002
Request to modify the building elevations approved with the Conditional
Use Permit for Avendale (fka Silver Oaks) by Engineering Solutions -
north side of W. Franklin Road, approximately'/ mile west of N. Ten Mile
Road:
Moe: Thank you. At this time I'd like to open the public hearing -- the continued public
hearing on MCU 09-002 for the sole purpose of continuing the hearing to the regularly
scheduled Planning and Zone meeting of December 3rd. Can I get a motion to do that?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 18 of 24
Newton-Huckabay: So moved.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That
motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Continued Public Hearing from October 15, 2009: AZ 09-005 Request
for Annexation and Zoning of 5.89 acres from RUT (Ada County) to C-C
(Community Business) zoning district for JJA Land by Mason and
Stanfield, Inc. - NWC of N. Linder Road and W. Ustick Road:
Moe: At this time I'd like to open the continued public hearing on AZ 09-005 for JJA
Land and start with the staff report, please.
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The application
before you tonight is an annexation request to zone 5.89 acres of land that's currently in
the county zoned RUT, to a C-C zoning district within the city. Back in 2005 this
property was part of the north Meridian area comprehensive plan that changed some of
those designations up there and so that's when this property's land use designation was
changed to mix use community. Looking at the -- the property is located on the
northwest corner of Ustick and Linder Road. To the east of the site is vacant or rural
residential property zoned RUT. To the south is R-4 -- R-4 zoned property and R-1 Ada
County property. To the west is a platted, undeveloped, single family residential known
as Windsong Subdivision, zoned R-8. And, again, to the north is rural residential zoned
RUT. At this time the applicant is not proposing any development for the property. It is
only for annexation at this point. If you look at this here in front of you, you can see
there is an existing home on the property and that currently exists still on the property.
What has happened to facilitate the annexation is ACHD went in here and acquired the
right of way and started construction on that intersection and upon commencement of
that road construction they hit their -- the actual well site for the home and so in order
for this home to keep functioning as a home they had to hook up to city services and
that home is currently connected to water and city sewer and so the applicant worked
with ACHD and agrees to annex into the city. Staff is recommending a DA for the site.
In your handout tonight I have highlighted some of those DA provisions that we are
proposing. Again, we don't have a concept plan to view before you tonight and that's
kind of a tough thing to swallow, considering the zoning that we are -- that they are
requesting for the site, so hopefully -- that's why I kind of laid out those DA provisions
for you to see if you feel they are appropriate, if you think there should be something
added, it's at your discretion to do so, to recommend some additional DA provisions.
Again, these are what staff is recommending. We have worked with the applicant quite
a bit on changing some of those and this has been continuing for a month now and staff
and applicant have worked together to tweak some of those DA provisions and we are
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 19 of 24
all in agreement with those provisions as you see them in the staff report. I think some
of the most important ones to note is that we want -- as you can see here, West
Crosswind Street currently stubbed along the western property boundary and staff is
recommending that that be punched through and that the applicant plat the property.
The applicant was hoping they could at least get issuance of a CZC for the property
before that happened. We have worked that out and we are in agreement they can pull
one CZC for the site, contingent on the fact that the home would be removed and that
CZC would be for a new commercial building and they are in agreement with that. One
other thing I'd like to point out to you is if you have driven by the site the applicant has
two access points that are constructed. ACHD approved three access points for this
property. One access point is located on Ustick Road about 200 feet from the
intersection and there is two access -- ACRD granted two access points along Linder
Road Linder. And so the applicant did not wish to have the northern most access point
construct at this time. However, the right-in, right-out access point from the intersection
has been constructed. So, what staff has done in the DA -- as part of the DA provision
is allowed the applicant to pull a CZC for the southern portion and no other CZCs will be
issued until the property is platted and we have at least a concept plan for the site or the
property is platted, a concept plan, and we can figure out how to provide a stub street to
this northern undeveloped portion and also to extend the street through to Linder Road.
Again, staff is recommending approval and if you have any questions I would be happy
to answer them at this time.
Moe: Any questions of staff, Commissioners?
O'Brien: I have a question, Mr. Chair.
Moe: Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: If I understand this two accesses on Linder Road, that the applicant wants to
construct one now, but can the second one be optional? Is this -- or is this going to be
for sure?
Parsons: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner O'Brien, two
access points are currently constructed and they were constructed with the intersection
improvements, so they have those in place. The applicant chose not to construct the
third full access point and that would probably either, one, be the most logical place to
punch a road through or we have also discussed that the applicant can move the road,
turn it towards the north, stub it to that northern property and, then, do a half plus 12
along the northern property boundary, so that way when that property to the north
requests annexation, they will finish out that portion of the road --
O'Brien: Okay.
Parsons: -- and, then, we will get that interconnectivity at that time.
O'Brien: Thank you. Appreciate that.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 20 of 24
Moe: Any questions of staff? Would the applicant like to come forward?
Stanfield: Good evening, Member of the Commission. Scott Stanfield with Mason
Stanfield Engineering. 314 Batiola in Caldwell. First I want to thank Mr. Parsons for his
help in this. As he indicated, we have been working on this for about a month now.
wish I could present to you tonight that we had a buyer, that we had a project, that we
had a concept plan, that we had something of value to move ahead, but, again, we
don't. This is caused solely because of what happened with the well and the water
situation out there. Thankfully, somebody in engineering discovered this and said, well,
wait a minute, time out, you guys need to annex in order to continue receiving the city
services on this parcel. So, then, we started working together and developed this
master plan or this master concept, this master idea with this development agreement
proposal and I think this development agreement proposal really reflects a two way
working together, if you will. Compromise on our part and compromise from staffs part
also, to really allow flexibility in the future and to protect the city and get what the city
thinks this parcel needs to look like in the future. So, with that I will just stand for any
questions.
Moe: So, then, you are in agreement and everything's good to go with the staff report?
Stanfield: Yes. Yes, sir.
Moe: Any questions of the applicant?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Moe: Thank you very much.
Stanfield: Thank you.
Moe: Since you were the only one signed up, anyone else that would like to speak to
this or more than willing to come up. I don't see a rush here. So, Commissioners, any
questions, comments?
O'Brien: So, just want to make sure --
Moe: Motions? Anything.
O'Brien: -- Mr. Chair. On the development agreement provisions, what it states here, is
that the same wording that's in the body of the staff report on the cheat sheet?
Parsons: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, that is correct.
O'Brien: Okay.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 21 of 24
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I have to say, I'm happy to see everything worked out.
Moe: Okay.
Marshall: I think it was a little bending on both sides and I appreciate everybody's
efforts.
Moe: All right.
Rohm: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: I move we close the public hearing on AZ 09-005.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on AZ 09-005. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed. That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval to the City Council of file number AZ 09-005 as presented in the staff report for
the hearing date of November 5th, 2009, with no modifications.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 09-005. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Public Hearing: AZ 09-009 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 6.16
acres from RUT in Ada County to R-8 (Medium Density Residential)
zoning district for Southridge-Hodges by Linder 109, LLC - 1785 S.
Windy Ridge Lane:
Moe: At this time I'd like to open the public hearing on AZ 09-009 for
Southridge-Hodges and start with the staff report, please.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 22 of 24
Parsons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Again, this is
another annexation request to annex 6.16 acres of land from RUT in Ada County to an
R-8 zoning district within the city. The Ten Mile area specific plan calls for medium
density residential for this property, so the zoning that the applicant is requesting is
consistent with that plan. Again, the applicant is not proposing any development for the
site. Staff has not included any provisions for a DA. What the applicant is planning to
do, as you can see with all the property that's zoned around this parcel, it's, basically, all
owned by the same developer, it's just some of these outparcels that he's acquired to
roll into a larger project known as Southridge and so that's what his intention is. So, the
portion that you see here currently zoned R-8, all of that to the old Overland Road, will
more than likely come in sometime in December with the Comprehensive Plan map
change and amend the existing DA for those properties and it will include a
development plan for this property, as well as a portion of this other additional R-8
property that you see before you. So, staff didn't feel it was necessary at this time to
require any DA for the site and with that we are recommending approval and I'll stand
for any questions you may have.
Moe: Any questions of staff, Commissioners?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Moe: Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant like to come forward, please?
Elg: Good evening. I don't think I have ever been in a hearing where I have been the
last guy here. My name is Van Elg. I'm with the Land Group, 462 East Shore, number
100, Eagle, Idaho. The only thing I guess to clear up is I think Bill mentioned the home
that's there is currently being removed. It may be already removed today. I'm not sure
what the status of it is, but it is just an enclave piece of property in the middle of
Southridge that has always been -- we have always wanted, but never happened until
just now. So, I'll answer any questions you might have of me, though.
Moe: Any questions of the applicant, Commissioners?
Rohm: Looks pretty clean.
Newton-Huckabay: It doesn't get anymore straight forward than that.
Moe: Well, thank you very much.
Elg: Thank you.
Moe: And there was no sign-up people in the audience, nor are there anybody in the
audience at the present time, so, therefore, Commissioners, any discussions, motions,
whatever you would like to do. I'd like, really, someone to close the public hearing.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 23 of 24
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: I move that we close the public hearing on AZ 09-009.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to the close public hearing on AZ 09-009 for
Southridge-Hodges. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Mr. Rohm, you're on a roll, but, please, continue.
O'Brien: Mr. Chair, first, before the motion.
Moe: Mr. O'Brien.
O'Brien: Just a question. So, you have a highlighted area. Is that -- that hasn't been
developed yet, right?
Canning: It's annexed and it's been -- had a fair amount of earthwork done on it.
O'Brien: Where is the access points?
Moe: A fair amount?
O'Brien: Where are the access points at relative to --
Canning: The original access points for the home is on Overland Road. It's actually --
Parsons: Yeah. If you can see this arrow here, that's, actually, an access easement
and that goes across, runs along the south side of Ridenbaugh Canal and then,
connects up to Overland Road here.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. Just curious about how you're going to get to there. Okay.
Thank you.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
November 5, 2009
Page 24 of 24
Rohm: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval to the City Council of file number AZ 09-009 as presented in the staff report for
the hearing date of November 5th, 2009, with no modification.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve AZ 09-009 for Southridge-Hodges. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed. That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: Commissioners.
Marshall: Mr. Chair, I move we adjourn.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Moe: It's been move and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: And we are out at 8:02.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:02 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
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