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2002 12-05 CITY OF MERIDIAN MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING REGULAR MEETING AGENDA Thursday, December 5, 2002 at 7:00 P.M. City Council Chambers 1. Roll-call Attendance: David Zaremba Jerry Centers Leslie' Mathes Michael Rohm Chairman Keith Borup 2. Adoption of the Agenda: 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting: Approve with amendment 4. Tabled Public Hearing from November 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, .,toys, etc. in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar by Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar - 124 East Pine Street: Recommend Approval to City Council 5. Public Hearin MI 02-009 Re uest for ad'ustment of area of im act 9 q 1 p between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston Moore by Winston Moore -northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: Recommend Approval to City Council 6. Public Hearing: MI 02-011 Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates Dev., LLC by Packard Estates Dev., LLC -south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: Recommend Approval to City Council 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two to ten years, staffed _r ^A by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles `n Sneezes Care "' Center by JC Anderson, Co. - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 `~~; East 2nd Street: Recommend Approval to City Council Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 1 of 2 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contack the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. 8. Public Hearing: RZ 02-006 Request for a Rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L to O-T zones for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: Recommend Approval to City Council 9. Public Hearing: CUP 02-037 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a two classroom center serving young children and families, and a 400 square foot community meeting room for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: Recommend Approval to City Council 10. Public Hearing: RZ 02-007 Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R- 4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by Meridian First Baptist Church - 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue: Recommend Approval to City Council 11. Public Hearing: ZA 02-002 Request to Amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9- 2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments by Wardle & Associates: Recommend Approval to City Council Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 2 of 2 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. ~; ;, _ ~; H ~ .. ,.. l r,-- , yk &~f~ ~ ti.'.4 h }~ y~3~ fiX N n k.`, ,_Hw L: ~'. 4~~ ~ 7A ~~~ ~~`` MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING REGULAR MEETING AGENDA Thursday, December 5, 2002 at 7:00 P.M. ~ City Council Chambers ~;~ 1. Roll-call Attendance: ~C David Zaremba ~ Jerry Centers i ~ Leslie Mathes ~ Michael Rohm X Chairman Keith Borup ~~~'"'~` 2. Adoption of the Agenda: `~~: ~_=F:f 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting: ~~~ (,~~ ¢G~ ~-~,y~d~~-~ ~. t~; `"' 4. Tabled Public Hearing from November 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 `~`~ Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's .;,:. ` ~ , entl used clothin to s, etc. in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael ,:~, , g Y 9, Y ~~ Kretzschmar by Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar - 124 East Pine Street: ~eC©~zc,~ v~.v icl /~~p rov ~, ~o ~~ ~ ~:` 5. Public Hearing: MI 02-009 Request for adjustment of area of impact between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston G ~ ;, Moore by Winston Moore -northwest comer of Forth Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: 1~,C~Vww~e~n,c~ ~(~~~ ~ ~ C~ G !~~' :~ ~ 6. Public Hearin MI 02-011 Re uest to remove certain arcels in Dunbar 9: q P Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates Dev., LLC by Packard Estates Dev., LLC -south of East Ustick ~• ~ . Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: ~,~~,~ ~~~~ ..~ ~G . , 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a ~ Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two to ten years, staffed ~ ~ ~ by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles `n Sneezes Care r ~. Center by JC Anderson, Co. - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 East 2nd Street: `7~Cvr1'~~~ ~ ~~~ ~v~~~ ~ ~~- `'`fi~ Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 1 of 2 ,, All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings K ~ • r> please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. -;~~ r _ i ~~ 8. Public Hearing: RZ 02-006 Request for a Rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L ~''~ ~' to O-T zones for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and ~< Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: 9. Public Hearing: CUP 02-037 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a ~~._ two classroom center serving young children and families, and a 400 ~Ty;x ~~'~` ~; ., square foot community meeting room for Meridian Head Start by Friends ~ ,: of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: 10. Public Healring: RZ 02-007 Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R- 4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by Meridian First ~~ Baptist Church - 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue: , xz ~,-;," ~•- 11. Public Healring: ZA 02-002 Request to Amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9- '~' 2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to allow architectural ~_~ encroachments to setbacks in residential developments by Wardle ~ `='' Associates: ~2vn.~~sv,.~y/.~i©1` ~~na~~ -~ ~~ ~M~~ w'~._,.. ;~_ ~.. ~f ~~ t ;;~:, . ~x. Fl~s~ ~L':~; r~ }'',.-~. ff :,! I °-; ~ f Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 2 of 2 '` " All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. ., 4s~ :'` 'i ~ ,r _:...:. . ... ,... . ....... .... . ~;''~. ~, ;z , ~~~ CITY OF MERIDIAN Y ;': . ~~ MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING REGULAR MEETING AGENDA Thursday, December 5, 2002 at 7:00 P.M. ~_ `-"~ City Council Chambers "``' 1. Roll-call Attendance: l .: David Zaremba Jeny Centers ,_ `'" Leslie Mathes Michael Rohm _ Chairman Keith Borup ~ ~ 2. Adoption of the Agenda: r~ ~ 3. Consent Agenda: ~, ; A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning °'' ~ Commission Regular Meeting: 4. Tabled Public Hearing from November 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 r:'b Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's :~ gently used clothing, toys, etc. in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael _~`'~` Kre~schmar by Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar - 124 East Pine r'. Street: 5. Public Hearing: MI 02-009 Request f or a djustment o f area o f i mpact = between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston ' Moore by Winston M oore - n orthwest c omer o f N orth E agle R oad a nd East Ustick Road: 6. Public Hearing: MI 02-011 Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates Dev., LLC by Packard Estates Dev., LLC -south of East Ustick .. Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: ~¢`` 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a a `-~ Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two to ten years, staffed `~ri,; by n urses a nd c ertified n urses a ssistants for S piffles `n Sneezes Care Center by JC Anderson, Co. - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 East 2"d Street: Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 1 of 2 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. '~'~~,~` Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings >`~?`~ please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. 8. Public Hearing: RZ 02-006 Request for a Rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L to O-T zones for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: 9. Public Hearing: CUP 02-037 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a two classroom center serving young children and families, and a 400 square foot community meeting room for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: 10. Public Hearing: RZ 02-007 Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R- 4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by Meridian First Baptist Church - 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue: 11. Public Hearing: ZA 02-002 Request to Amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9- 2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments by Wardle & Associates: ~.^;.'i; Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 2 of 2 All mater(als presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings ';~; please contact the Clty Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. ~~` . e~, ~'~ k ~!~.? ~} ~. , x~Y;. i Y~' 1~ '! _ rk ,A _ ~'dL, i ~~~s ~;~ ~ ~ i .4rs}'~~~ r ~=~ u' ~&f w ~ i . ~`~ ~ t ,aH 1 m -X 4s~'x{~rY.~ ~ X ~~ c n ` ~. F .d ~..rn , 6 F p i~t~ \ ` _. yy :..,~.~ ~ Ct~ N $' ,L . yu~.~k~S m`~~'TH~ ~~- 4 ~ a ~a ~ ~ ' k' ~~~~ tV 1 ~ . r 6 i h' 4°_ *~ TX CONFIRMATION REPORT ** AS OF DEC 03 '02 09 31 PAGE.01 ;a: CITY OF MERIDIAN ~k,° A DATE TIME TO/FROM MODE MIN/SEC PGS CMD# STATUS l ~~° 01 12/03 085? PUBLIC WORKS OF--S 00' 26" 002 208 OK ~'' `" 02 12/03 08 58 2084664405 EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK r ` 03 12/03 08 59 8841159 EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK ' " 04 12/03 09 00 2088840?44 EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK 05 12/03 09 02 208846?366 EC--S 00' 3?" 002 208 OK 06 12/03 09 03 208 898 5501 EC--S 00' 35" 002 208 OK 07 12/03 09 04 LIBRARY EC--S 00' 45" 002 208 OK ~~~`~ 08 12/03 09 05 IDAHO STATESMAN EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK ~~;', ~ 09 12/03 09 06 208 388 6924 EC--S 00' 45" 002 208 OK } ```' 10 12/03 090? 2088886854 EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK "``'' 11 12/03 09 09 KEITH BIRD EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK ~~ 12 12/03 09 10 8950390 EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK 13 12/03 09 11 Laurel EC--S 00' 3?" 002 208 OK ~~ <-y 14 12/03 0912 208 387 6393 EC--S 00' 3?" 002 208 OK ~;r, 15 12/03 09 13 ADA CTY DEVELMT G3--S 01' 11" 002 208 OK ~ ~'='' 16 12/03 09 15 CHERIE MCCANDLES EC--S 00' 45" 002 208 OK ~~'`- ~; 1? 12/03 09 16 CHERRY LANE EC--S 00' 44" 002 208 OK 18 12/03 09 18 POST OFFICE EC--S 00' 58" 002 208 OK "` 19 12/03 09 19 208 888 1983 G3--S 00' 51" 002 208 OK "'`'~ 20 12/03 09 21 ID PRESS TRIBUNE EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK ~~~ 21 12/03 09 25 3810160 EC--S 00' 58" 002 208 OK °'`~" 22 12/03 09 30 208 888 6700 EC--S 00' 36" 002 208 OK ~a ~~~e `l~o~~ ~ `~t,~.lr~(~c, Vl,o-Ice.-- G~c~n~C~ 1 CITY OF MERIDIAN ~, ` . r- MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING REGULAR MEETING `f :,~ AGENDA ~~ ';~ Thursday, December 5, 2002 at 7:00 P,M, City Council Chambers :~~~~ ~~~~~~~-~~'~ 1. Roll-call Attendance: '' ' David Zaremba Jerry Centers f Leslie Mathes Michael Rohm Chairman Keith Borup ~! ~ 2. Adoption of the Agenda: a, .: el 3. Consent Agenda: ~r ~~~ A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting: 4, Tabled Public Hearing ftom November 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 ._ .. -~s ~'U> i. ~~ fit' ~ ,~`. tl :;e a-~. t, '~:+-t '~' St ct F '~ Ny~y~~ . ~ Y /1~ # [ -. p, t E, A. vF' ~ t [ `i ' ~ ~~~ 1 ~~ r~ ll~ ~ ~ 1{t~ f ' ~T may, AMY'. v~~t.+ie15 L i?~ ~!?y fy ~'~ r ~` ~ ~ +~ ~ ti ,~~ `, K~.'isy~ ~~ f ~ s ,, ~,'L'~r `~'+' Wrw, ~) ' ~ - • ~ - 1 ~ '~s ` r , r,ry. , ~ - ~~ ~~'; <.:< x,,' y °' r~.._ ,.< ~,` 'r ~; t-- ~r ~y ~::x ~' ;~ ,;;; r; ~ TX ~NFIn"T<~1TION REPORT ** AS OF DEC 05 '02 23138 PRGE.01 CITY OF MERIDIAN DATE TIME TO/FROM MODE MIN/SEC PGS CMD# STATUS 08 12/05 23 15 PUBLIC WORKS OF-S 00'29" 002 251 OK 09 12/05 23 16 12084664405 EC-S 00'40" 002 251 OK 10 12/05 23 17 8841159 EC-S 00'40" 002 251 OK 11 12/05 2318 2088840744 EC-S 00'39" 002 251 OK 12 12/05 23 19 2088467366 EC-S 00'40" 002 251 OK 13 12/05 23 21 208 898 5501 EC-S 00' 39" 002 251 OK 14 12/05 2322 92083776449 EC-S 00'38" 002 251 OK 15 12/05 2323 20W886854 EC-S 00'39" 002 251 OK 16 12/05 23 24 8950390 EC-S 00' 39" 002 251 OK 17 12/05 2325 Laurel EC-S 00'40" 002 251 OK 18 12/05 2327 208 387 6393 EC-S 00' 39" 002 251 OK 19 12/05 2328 RDA CTY DEUELMT G3-S 01' 13" 002 251 OK 20 12/05 2329 CHERIE MCCANDLES EC-S 00'49" 002 251 OK 21 12/05 23 31 208 888 1983 G3-S 00' S4" 002 251 OK 22 12/05 2332 208 888 6?00 EC-S 00'39" 002 251 OK 23 12/05 2337 3810160 EC-5 01'03" 002 251 OK CITY Off' MERIDIAN MEWDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING REGULAR MEETING AGENDA Thursday. December 5, 2002 at 7:00 P.M. City Council Chambers 1. Roll-call Attendance: 9~ David Zaremba ~' Jerry Centers ~- Leslie Mathes ~ Michael Rohm X Chaimran Keith Borup Z Adoption of the Agenda: 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting: '"~'~n'VG Gflrfl7 /~frlt~nd//lfi~t 4. Tabled Public Hearing from Nvvember 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used dothing, toys, etc. in an QT zone for Johann and Raehael Kretzschmar by Johann and Raehael Kretzschmar - 124 East Pine Street ReCol~~m.~ncl Apprav~2, -lo L'`G 5. Public Hearing: MI 02-009 Request for adjustment of area of impact befiaeen the sties Of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for taYinston Moore by Winston Moore -northwest comer of North Eagle Road and East Ustidc Road: 'f~.E+:QYywn~vu~ uock Rio C,~G 6. Publie Hearing: MI 02-011 Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates Dev., LLC by Paakard Estates Dev., LLC -south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: ~,,y~(,~~~ ~ ~G 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Cara Center for up to 30 mildly itl children, ages lwo to ten years, staffed by nurses and certfied muses assistants for Sniffles `n Sneezes Care Center by JC Anderson, Co. - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 East 2nd Street: ~ t~~y~o,I ,g~yy~~' ~j (~C Merb~n Planning end 2onetg Commisslon Agenda - Dwamtmr 5.2002 Page 1 or 2 AO materials presented at puhlb mee6rgs aha0 treoorne property of the Cty of Merldran. Anyone desiring axommodation for disa6Ailx~ related to dooaments and/or hearinge please oontad eta Cily Cletft's otnce at 888493;1 et least 48 Fw~as prauto the pubGe meeting. b ~ t f ~J, ~i ~! ,.'~.~ li j • 5 ";' : r, ~f ~ t, F b l' ~ . L k ~ r 8 v CITY OF MERIDIAN MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING REGULAR MEETING AGENDA ~,. }~ 4 ;.. ~:. °~' .. ~ ~~ ~:~ k, ~~ ~- k.'.. Thursday, December 5, 2002 at 7:00 P.M. City Council Chambers 1. Roll-call Attendance: David Zaremba Jerry Centers Leslie Mathes Michael Rohm Chairman Keith Borup 2. Adoption of the Agenda: 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting: Approve with amendment 4. Tabled Public Hearing from November 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, toys, etc. in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar by Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar - 124 East Pine Street: Recommend Approval to City Council 5. Public Hearing: MI 02-009 Request for adjustment of area of impact ~~ between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston ~" Moore by Winston Moore -northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: Recommend Approval to City Council 6. Public Hearing: MI 02-011 Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard `~ Estates Dev., LLC by Packard Estates Dev., LLC -south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: Recommend Approval to . City Council 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two to ten years, staffed by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles `n Sneezes Care ~ Center by JC Anderson, Co. - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 East 2"d Street: Recommend Approval to City Council Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 1 of 2 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. ...., _~ w, ~ ,._ ~a 4~ ~' U ~: ,~ , ~ ~ ~. d Y~ ~,~, ..: ; ` Y. ya ti~~ r~, ~"-` t r, '; € -~ '~ F Y r ?: .j,~ 9;s a ~~~ y k '~:4.~. ~i S~ f ~c ~, r i.~ y~ '`}°3 Fb` 4 ~ :"fi"n ~#~ 3 r +i ~ . , ~~" , ~ c ~ ,r ~~ ~~.~ ~k 1-' ;: ~ ~ _p ~. ~ ~ Y'~ ~~ f ' . .. t f ~ ~ 6~i ~ s } ~.~{ ~1.~ Y *i4Y}`S S 4 .l ~.ii ~ i' ' ~' Mrt~ `~ M1 I' ^F ~: i4 ' ~~~~~~333~~~ ~ ~~ f 1 f F '~ ~~": F `~ !~ _ _ •_ Y5 ~ ~ ~~ '.: F: NH 1 • • ~. - '~''' 8. Public Hearing: RZ 02-006 Request for a Rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L ~Y-j„ to O-T zones for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and ~~'r Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: Recommend d ~:~ x ~ " Approval to City Council ~''-`: 9. Public Hearing: CUP 02-037 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a two classroom center serving young children and families, and a 400 ~° ` square foot community meeting room for Meridian Head Start by Friends ~r.+a: ~'">: `~ of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: .~ Recommend Approval to City Council 10. Public Hearing: RZ 02-007 Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R- 4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by Meridian First Baptist Church - 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue: Recommend Approval to City Council 11. Public Hearing: ZA 02-002 Request to Amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9- .+;.: ' _ ~ 2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to allow architectural ;.. ''~ ~ encroachments to setbacks in residential developments by Wardle & Associates: Recommend Approval to City Council ;_ ;~ .;r t ;;, w .~; ~ Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Agenda -December 5, 2002 Page 2 of 2 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. - Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Y 1 " '~ ~ ,~~ '~'T~ ~ x~r.acy ~ 7 Y 4 h t,~ 'tf 2 p"~` ~t ~ ~~ w , 4 t ~~ qtr ~ ii :y, E' T ~. S ''1LL F Y~' ASS f ~~~ ~ . ~ , ~ jk ~ ~ ` r •M1 W _'~~ _ .a, .ty,~ b Y ]u' ~ y ~. ) ,., ~ ~ ~ ' f" ;q ~ y~ F. i~ },.,. ~Y Sn ~~ h ~„ +i '£f`; ^~ .: ~.' ~ 1 k ~~ ~'S } Y~T ' 4 c"{ ~ ~ f f ~~ 4 ~ ~ I ~ ?H 5 ' ~ u t~Y G' Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting December 5, 2002 The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission was ~~,k called to order at 7:00 P.M., on Thursday, December 5, 2002 by Chairman Keith Borup. Members Present: Chairman Keith Borup, Jerry Centers, David Zaremba, Michael Rohm, and Leslie Mathes. Others Present: Bruce Freckleton, Steve Siddoway, Nicholas Wollen, Sharon Smith, Jessica Johnson, and Dean Willis. x` Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X David Zaremba X Jerry Centers {'~`_ X Leslie Mathes X Michael Rohm X Chairman Keith Borup -- Borup: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We'd like to call to order our regular ,~`~~ scheduled meeting for the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for December 5~' ~~-~ and start with the roll call of Commissioners. Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting: Borup: The first item on the agenda, unless any Commissioners had any changes to the agenda that's outlined, it would be approval of minutes for November 21St Zaremba: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Zaremba. Zaremba: I have a comment on those. On Page 2, on the vote on the minutes of the previous meeting where it says motion carried, the vote was actually two ayes, one abstain, and one absent. The statement by me that appears below Item 12, actually applies to that. I abstained from voting because I was not at the previous meeting. Borup: Oh. Okay. That should move up and change that, too. Zaremba: Just to make that vote accurate. That's my only change. Borup: Okay. So noted. Centers: Would you like to move to approve on that? ~;;~ ~~ z ~ `~ . ~v ~, r ~ - ~ ' i ~~; 7~ , . . §: ~` ~ - sai ~ ~ . ~,-~., ~z;; ~ . ' * $ ' ~x~ . ~ ~ Y'tH..~ ~ T r ~ ~{ ~ g, ~grrr y ~,~€ ' ! t~. Y F ~ ~ ~ sb~, i ~ rl( ~ ~ 3 ~=F j ~ r - '.1~ :, y,~ ~, F 7 . ~ ~~ ' r~~ ~ ~ f ~' , Meridian Planning 8 Zoning • • December 5, 2002 Page 2 of 74 Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we approved the minutes of the meeting of November 21St as amended. Mathes: Second. Rohm: I'll second that. Borup: Motion and second all in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 4. Tabled Public Hearing from November 21, 2002: CUP 02-033 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, toys, etc. in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar by Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar - 124 East Pine Street: Borup: The first item on the agenda is a Tabled Public Hearing, tabled from our November 21St meeting, CUP 02-033, request for a Conditional Use Permit to open an retail shop for children's used clothing in an O-T zone and we'd like to open this hearing and start with the staff report. - Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Just to refresh ~'` > your memory, this was tabled from the November 21St meeting because of a problem ~;`~'~ with the noticing. The project has been noticed properly since then. We have a :~;~> `` notarized statement from the applicant stating that it was posted on November 26th for this meeting so you should have a staff report dated November 14th for this project. It is for a used clothing store in the current Old Town zoning district. You can see on the ~~ wall screen a vicinity map with the subject property outlined in black. Here is an aerial ~4~ photo of that same property showing you the character of the surrounding uses, <`~ basically residential in nature, and as with many places in Old Town, going through the ~~' conversion process to nonresidential uses. Here are some existing site photos, one r_~:'= from the alley, one from the front and their site plan. Okay. The basic issue on this one ;~ -- if you go to Page 2 of the staff report, it is the parking situation. They are basically proposing two parking spaces, a handicapped parking space in the existing driveway ~;: ?;.; °~~ and a staff parking space in the existing garage. There is no other, you know, parking ' - provided on the site, which is technically out of compliance with the City's Off-Street ~:7 "-~" Parking Ordinance. There are some calculations provided there, but the gist is that they -~ don't meet it. At the same time, we realize a couple of things. One, the city does own a ~.; ~r°~ - parking lot that's available for public parking on the other side of Pine Street. Also, Pine ~:{~~: Street does allow for on street parking in front of the business. Also, that putting a parking lot in the front of this building would be different than the character that we are trying to move towards in the Old Town District. We have a situation where the ": ordinance that would require that parking conflicts with some of our goals and the `` realities of that area. The solution to that would be a Variance application that Council ~~ would have to approve. We would suggest that if other issues are resolved tonight, that ~~,,~ t. -: y, {t ~. .~ -" ' . Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 3 of 74 ~`' the applicant simply submits a Variance application to accompany this Conditional Use '"~~ Permit to the City Council. In that Variance, we would also have them address the ~s;~ landscaping issues. The only landscaping issue there is the -- if you read -- take the _ strict reading of the buffers between the land uses section of that Landscape Ordinance, -' a buffer would be required between this property and the adjacent properties that remain residential. In order to address that, we have just suggested that they include both the parking and the landscape buffers as a Variance request to the City Council. We have some fairly basic site requirements and our recommendation is for approval of this project if the Variance is applied for and granted by City Council. With that I'll stand ,~~~ for any questions. Borup: Questions from the Commission? Centers: Mr. Chairman. Steve, could you put the aerial back up and maybe show where the city parking lot is? Maybe that's better. Siddoway: Yes. It doesn't show up on the aerial, because it's across the street. Okay. `~`~~' ~ This is the Generations Plaza and the Generations Plaza building sits here. Behind it is ~~ a parking lot for the building itself and then the city parking lot is right adjacent to it, ~, ~_ either on this lot or that lot. I'm not sure which one, but one of those two lots contains i ~ ~ the city's parking lot. Centers: Well, I guess it would be a City Council decision on the Variance, but is there ~~~~ any thought to the precedence given to these people using the city parking lot and then r ` ~ other adjacent businesses or owners wanting to use it, too? ~~,. ~~~;~~: ~~:i;~ Siddoway: I think that we would support it, simply because our direction through the city ~,~„F ~~=~ -= and the downtown revitalization -- Meridian Development Corporation, is to, in the future, have the -- have that group provide structured parking for businesses, so that we N;~ V can avoid having masses of on-street -- or not on-street, off-street parking lots through Old Town, to try and get more of an urban feel without continuous parking lots. << Centers: Well, I was just wondering about the precedence that's being set. Anyway -- ~, ._ Siddoway: If it were anywhere other than Old Town, we would not be in favor of it. ;.:,,, r ;:; Zaremba: Steve, has any survey been done of how full that parking lot is now? 3~ ~' Siddoway: No. One thing that needs to happen for Old Town as a whole is a parking study to determine, you know, throughout the area what parking lots are available, but ~' ""-j ~ that has not been done. .~: ~R~'~ ~, ~';` Zaremba: Meridian Development Corporation probably would do that survey, I think. ,~; ~:.,: Siddoway: Yes. ;~; .;> ~~~ ~: >,.;: iP' Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 4 of 74 ~,' :-'l` Zaremba: Okay. ~~'`" Borup: Anything else? Is there anything the applicant would like to add? Any Commissioners have any questions for the applicant? yA. ~;.-~ ~'~' Zaremba: Just to know if they are willing to apply for the Variances that are being asked for. Would you testify to that, please? ~- Borup: State your name and address. }, .. tT_".x' Kretzschmar: Johann Kretzschmar, 9980 Rose Meadows Drive, Boise, Idaho. At this ~ `~ time, we are willing to apply for the Variance for the parking and the landscaping. We have already gone to Ada County with the alley situation, with the paving, and what not. ~, to ~- Zaremba: How was that resolved? ~>:• ~. ~.`` `' Kretzschmar: For the amount of traffic that the business is going to -- that they ~~., ~ anticipate will bring, that they feel that we will not have to pave at this time. There ~.;<~ wouldn't be enough traffic. Hopefully, the business will bring in some business, but at this point they feel that, again, we will not have to pave the alley. g: ;': 'A y,' ~~~: Zaremba: Congratulations. I don't know if you know how unusual it is for ACRD to change their mind. ;~_ '~~~'~ Kretzschmar: We are very luck. Feel fortunate there. ~; ._ Borup: Anything else? ~.~: Centers: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Well -- and that was in the staff report from the ACHD. ~~~~ think they indicated -- I forget the reason for the waiver. I had a couple questions. Did you read the site-specific requirements by the staff? ~'r Kretzschmar: Yes. Centers: And specifically regarding the landscaping for the property, which shall be continuously maintained? ~` ~; Kretzschmar: Yes. ~. ;, ~> ;' Centers: Okay. My main concern was the -- all the exterior lighting and the neighbors. - s;~;,: This is kind of common verbiage whether attached to the building or located within the parking lot, shall be down-shielded. Does the house have porch lights now and that type of thing or exterior lights? X_ ,; ~:Y~_ Kretzschmar: There are a couple exterior lights in the front right under where that tree is and then there is one in the back by the garage. ~;:,? ~';:. p, .~ _ _ ~ ~ ~ h nA y f ~ y ~5,~~e*~S eja. ~ . ~ ~I•L ~: r ' ~; ~~ y^ . S'"- ;~ ~ w. '' a ~- i ~~ '' ' ~ j'° ~ ai ~E1k~ 7 r i. M~ i . `z~ ~ t E r is ;~ y ~ -. ,,,•~ ~;~ ? ~, d ~& ,~ N ~ _ Hater (~ ~ - y F.F ~C .. ~'i~a`„ ~i. $ ~ y. t. 3 yy i i P 1 oy, ~~k~+. ~ Nrik` ~.~' 4, ` ~ ;~ ~3 ilil ~,{ tl f ~i ~~' 1 i N Y~r ~~ ~'~ } ` 3 ~ ~ y a~ :4 ~~~ ~~ ' ~~l ~ ~, } I ~.f. 5. ~y °; ~.;. ~ • Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 ~;. ~. ~:.,:;, Page 5 of 74 `~~ Centers: Do you intend to change them? ,:~ Kretzschmar: No. What we intended to do was some low profile yard-type light going ~~y-' ~. down the sidewalk, maybe a small light shining against the sign and which would be `` ~ ' ,, turned off when the business closed at night. Centers: Well, the other lights should bedown-shielded. Kretzschmar: Yes. ~~~~;~ ~~~s: Centers: Okay. All right. Thank you. ~: ~~ ~ Kretzschmar: Anything else? s'~ x ~--.. Borup: Thank you. ~=~~ ~;'_. Kretzschmar: Thank you. ~' Borup: Do we have anyone else to testify on this application? Seeing none, '~' ~ L~, Commissioners? ,~~-:x Centers: I guess I would move to close the Public Hearing, if we have no one else here. n' ` s' . Zaremba: Second. ~r~S j Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? Q'~ F "`''~' MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Okay. We did not have anyone sign upon the sheet. Centers: Mr. Chairman, that was my main concern, if we had neighbors that were here, ,~,. ~., ~~r~# and I'm sure they were noticed and it wasn't properly noticed the first time, they were ~' ` ~:~, this time. There are no objections and staff recommends approval so I would support ;~>': .~ g g g, I would move that we recommend a royal to the Ci Council that. Movin ri ht alon pp ty for Item 4, which was the Tabled Public Hearing from November 21St. CUP 02-033, ''' request for a CUP to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, toys, et '?`~~~` cetera, in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar by Johann and Rachael > ~ Kretzschmar -- and if I abused that last name, I apologize. ~~ '~` Zaremba: Actually, the first name is Johann. ~; ~~ ~~ Centers: Including all staff comments and, in particular, where the applicant has agreed ~- to apply for a Variance prior to City Council, for the landscaping and the parking. .r. Zaremba: Second. ~~. ~' 5 E z ~~ .. ~~ ,. ` ' .: L'. a . ~FK Meridian Planning & Zoning -? ~~ December 5, 2002 ~~.~ Page 6 of 74 Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 5. Public Hearing: MI 02-009 Request for adjustment of area of impact between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston Moore by Winston Moore -northwest comer of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: ,:.; <:. Borup: The next item is Public Hearing MI 02-009, a request for adjustment of the area ~:, . of impact between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston Moore, located at the northwest comer of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road. I'd like to ~. open this Public Hearing at this time and. again. start with the staff report. ~:,.. ~~~~;~ Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The subject €-S? - property is along Eagle Road north of Ustick outlined in black there. That parcel is ~`- currently in the Boise area of impact. This miscellaneous application is to modify our ~`~ area of impact to allow this parcel to come into the City of Meridian's area of impact. I "`'` guess that's the only slide I have. You should have a letter from Tye A. Ketlinski. I was -~ told he's in the audience tonight and I'm going to allow him to address the issues in his ~r ~: letter. I would simply point out you do not have a staff report on this one, if you're searching for it. This issue has been before the Meridian City Council, as well as the ~?, City of Boise's City Council, and has basically received approval -- tentative approval from each body. Specifically, they went before the City of Boise in February of 2001, t ' just under two years ago now. It was presented to them. We do have a letter from ?~'~~ Mayor Coles on Boise letterhead basically stating that they have reviewed the request and are in agreement with it. At that time, the city was unwilling to provide -- the City of ~<.~~ Meridian was unwilling to provide awill-serve letter. As of September of this year, there ''`~ was a letter dated September 9r" from Mayor Corrie of the City of Meridian stating that '~' ~ we will agree to serve that property with city services. Basically, both cities are in A~ ~ .-. agreement at this point with this -- with the inclusion of this parcel into Meridian area of , f~:. im act and staff recommends a royal of the a Ircation. I will stand for an uestions. P PP PP~ Yq Centers: Mr. Chairman. Steve, basically, what we are saying is that we will serve it with services, if and when we can annex it and it becomes contiguous to another city property? ~, Siddoway: That is correct. I'm going to let Bruce address that one. Freckleton: Commissioner Centers, Members of the Commission, the City of Meridian is in the process of constructing the South Slough Sewer Trunk. That trunk line will be bringing sewer out onto Ustick Road and right across the frontage of Mr. Moore's property. He owns this property as well. Our sewer and water -- we have water down Ustick Road already. Sewer will be going right in front and so services will be able to be " provided from Ustick Road. As far as the boundary lines -- the existing boundary lines, M" ~ Summerfield Subdivision is in this area right here. There is a proposed development 4~ n` ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~.. _~ ' ~ , ~ ~ y~ ~~l ', 1 ~ y F ~s r ~ ~ ~ ~ fig l ~ 3 !,.-~.'~ ~~ .. ~`„~~ yt''~ ' a is ~... ~~ ~I~ b ~ ~ x ~rayss'p r ~~B ~ n ~ {l f~ ' ~ ~~ .. - ~~ Y fi ~ ~, I ~ f : W ~ ~;,} fi+~ '- ,. v+w ~~. ~ i'i~,~~ :1Jk,' ~ ~1£SS2 r F -~, "]~ 'IeKw~.w ~n Siny F .. ~ . F r~~. Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 7 of 74 here. We have not had the application formally approved. There are other properties in the neighborhood around here that have expressed interest in annexation as soon as the route of annexation opens up. This properly on the comer is the Caven parcel that you heard several months ago so it's the logical progression of the city out into this corner. Centers: Yes. Bruce, wasn't this annexed because of being contiguous across the street with Wal-Mart? I remember that. What was this? Zaremba: This is by Summers Funeral Home. Centers: Okay. Okay. Not to steal Mr. Ketlinski's thunder, but all we are deciding tonight is that, yes, we will agree to provide services, because we will have them available, if and when it's annexed. It would have to be contiguous to be annexed. Some of the things in Mr. Ketlinski's letter can't be dealt with at this time. True? Siddoway: That's true more specifically, this application tonight -- sorry, Bruce. This application tonight is to amend the area of impact. Centers: Right. Right. Siddoway: And many of the issues in the letter would be dealt with upon an actual development application on the property. Centers: And annexation and -- Borup: Annexation and zoning and a Development Plan. Centers: Right. Thank you. Borup: Okay. Okay. Anything else? Would the applicant like to make any additional presentation? Seel: Good evening. Jonathan Seel, 600 North Steelhead in Boise, Idaho. W.H. Moore Company. For what it's worth, I will stick this up here. That depicts the area that Mr. Moore owns. Something else, first that I'd like to pass out I think it depicts this a little bit better. This is the actual area of impact that we are talking about. It's a little bit smaller. What I just wanted to mention, I have given you an eight and a half by eleven - - you can see the crosshatched area is the actual area we are talking about. The issue, as I understand it tonight, is simply to modify the area of impact to include this land within the City of Meridian or within the Meridian impact area and take it out of Boise. As Steve says, back in, I believe, 2001 City Council for Boise and Mayor Coles said it was a fair and reasonable request. We have since then met in a renegotiation meeting with Ada County and the City Council for Meridian and they feel it's reasonable. What has already been addressed is we have been provided with swill-serve letter, which says at the time that services are available we will have that. That's really, in my ~.~w~ ,~~' ~~ x r ~{ ~ ~ ~• F•X4 L~,f N l , t f'f ~~f 3~4y t +:~ ~ `~~` S ~r;. 5 ~y 4 l+j ~r~: ~. j ~~ if. ~ j ~~C ]` -:~ A 1 r ,~~ ~~,' ~ -f= . ~~~ ~ w Y ~ ~~ t~ ~.+ 1 ,~ .S` ~. F. i gg. 1~./ i ~~. F + , ~~ ~ :~y S~~ ~i~ ~ ~. f l ~J~ hrt~ ^~ V ~ ~ ~ ~z ~+.~~ p , ~iy ,.,. , <: r a al ~~ 7A-~ ~ k ye~'~ . P ~ .e ~ lj~ ?" ~~i K r„ x i'v' ~: ~+ ~ ~ ~ ~ rt { i~ ~gy~"~ ~}1"Gs r r ~ ,i a Y Meridian Planning & Zoning ® • December 5, 2002 Page 8 of 74 understanding, not an issue tonight and we will also agree to consent to annexation at the time it is available so we will not oppose it. Tonight we are simply here just to -- as you can see, this area right approximately here, this is Eagle Road, this is Ustick, Mr. Moore owns this land right here kind of in this purple area and it's this area right here that is currently within the City of Boise that we are talking about. Any further work with this as far as the annexation and rezone, we will come back for an application at that point. Hopefully, that clears that up so I'm glad to answer any questions. Borup: Any other questions for Mr. Seel? Zaremba: I'm just assuming the point is to unify the property and deal with one city. Seel: Exactly. We have got 58 acres and it's a little difficult to have a project in there where part of it might be within the City of Boise, and part of it's in the City of Meridian. Where do you stop sewer for one and start sewer for another, police, fire, and the various other things. Yes, we feel that this would be the most beneficial all the way around and, obviously, Boise feels it makes the most sense, too. We had a hearing and that hearing with the City of Boise P&Z formally was set for next Monday, December 9th. Unfortunately, we did not advertise this within the two-week period, so there was concern about that. It's now been postponed until January 13th. It will be heard on January 13th in front of P&Z and go on to City Council, so -- Centers: That's really the biggie. They have got to release it. I think it's a real plus for us, but that's your main hurdle, I suspect. Seel: Well, Commissioner Centers, I don't think it's really a hurdle at this point. I think they have indicated to us that -- as they say in the letter, it's fair and reasonable is the term they use. We don't see any opposition. I have talked to Wayne Gibbs about it, too, and no one has at this point opposed it. In fact, my verbal communications with the city so far is they don't -- there has not been any opposition. Yes, formally, it hasn't, but I think if you're a betting man, I think it's going to go through. Centers: Of course, the letter is dated almost two years ago. Seel: Yes but we have talked to them and resubmitted and since then we have talked to them and they are aware of the reason why it was postponed. They are still in support of it. Thank you very much. Borup: Do we have anyone else to testify on this application? If so, come forward at this time. Now is the time. Ketlinski: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, Mr. Attorney, I'm Tye Ketlinski. I wrote the letter. Borup: You might need to get the mike up a little closer. ~` • Meridian Planning & Zoning ~'" *`'' December 5, 2002 ;~~ Page 9 of 74 ~. Ketlinski: I'm Tye Ketlinski, I wrote the letter to the Commission regarding some of the ~ ° citizens concems in the Jasmine Homeowners Association, which is just north of this ~ ,:~ ~: '''4~i parcel. You didn't steal my thunder per se I know that we are not addressing the issue "~,==-~ of what they are going to do with this. Quite frankly, the people that I represent realize -~ that change is inevitable and I don't think I would want to be in Boise either. With that, I ~:;; ', just wanted to note that my letter I think pretty much explains the concerns. I think ~ ;~ everybody's fright is that their house in a nice area as this, is going to end up with a ~~~ Wal-Mart next to it with two trillion watts of candle power flashing into their bedroom window every night. I just wanted to come, express my concern on behalf of at least _~° R;"~rY~ three of the residents of the Jasmine Homeowners Association, and just say that we do ~k; a-,'~' have some concerns about the future of this particular parcel. If there are no questions, `` I'll have a seat. Borup: Any questions? '" Centers: Mr. Chairman. I think you're fortunate to have a quality developer and I would highly recommend that when the development starts, that you have your neighborhood ;Sk"~ meetings. We highly encourage that, with the developer, and that's when you do your talking about, you know, the lights that you mentioned and you get things ironed out. ,~,, Ketlinski: With all candors, I did have a conversation today on the telephone with Mr. .:_ Seel -- Centers: Good. ,`;; "`' ~ Ketlinski: -- and he explained to me what their -- he was willing to sit down, at least with the neighborhood association, and talk about what may go on that property. Borup: And there will be notification both when it comes time for annexation and zoning and any development, all that would be notified and we -- as Commissioner Centers '~'_ said_ we want to see on oroiects of certain sizes. we want to see the neighborhood meetings. Right now we are encouraging it and soon we are going to be requiring it, I ~'` believe. Ketlinski: Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate the opportunity to speak. ~'~ Zaremba: I would just say I noted as I read through your letter that the homeowners association is split between the two cities. We would welcome those that are not in ~ Melridian to try and join Melridian in the same process that we are going through right here. Ketlinski: And I think they are considering that, because they want to be in Meridian as well. Thank you. `~`' ` Centers: Are they in the City of Boise now, though? ~{ ~`~ ~ ,~` :F t ~~ ~1 ~ µ n~ }~;d ~~~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 10 of 74 i ,, -`; ~:~r, Ketlinski: I think they are in the area of impact. Borup: Are they still in Ada County city limits of Boise? Centers: That's the way I read it. Borup: That surprises me. Zaremba: Well, I don't think we will ever get them back if they are actually in the city, but -- Borup: Okay. Yes. If it's in the city limits, then, I think so. I think it's -- I was assuming it was just area of impact. Ketlinski: I think it was three years ago. I'm not sure now. I can't -- Borup: Okay. That's for them to research. Thank you. Do we have anyone else on this? Okay. Seeing none, Commissioners? Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move the Public Hearing be closed. Rohm: Second. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Centers: Mr. Chairman, I would recommend approval of Item 5 on our agenda, Public Hearing MI 02-009, request for adjustment of area of impact between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston Moore by Winston Moore, northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road, with applicable staff comments. Mathes: Second. Zaremba: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 6. Public Hearing: MI 02-011 Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates Dev., LLC by Packard Estates Dev., LLC -south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: Borup: The next item is Public Hearing MI 02-011, request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from the City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates Development, LLC. They are trying to do just the opposite. btt ~''. ~~~ s 4 V ,: _ ~~= ~' y i. -~ ~ r' `4`, ~ `' ~ b' ~yq..,^ ~~ ~~:. r: lY 3fI7 Z t~ C. Y i ~ `j{ Yw ~ 1 ~` ~~f{ '~ ~. S b d '4~+ Yf` `S~;s„4 ~.. }+~'°~V~'pk`r F • ~.. t~ ~ r' rF~~ FMK ~r~~. ; ~~;}~ _ y~ x~(~ ~r~~ ~~~ ~ z 5 ~~~ r{, a. ,...... _. ....... i ~~ _t t '~ ~.~yy~1~ f Ate" ~ ~ - ~~ Meridian Planning & Zoning "T~ December 5, 2002 Page 11 of 74 ~J5 ' ~~ _ ~ ~ Rohm: That's going to be a little tougher. ;~: .. ~~ 4,_ : ~` Borup: We'd like to open this Public Hearing at this time and start with the staff report. x `~ Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. As Chairman `~~z ~~. Borup rightly says, this one is just the opposite of what we just went through. It is -- it ~~ f~M ' also is an area of impact adjustment, but in this case they are requesting that the area encircled on the screen be allowed to be removed from the City of Meridian area of ~~ ..: .~ , ;~: ~; ~~~ ;,~ impact and go to the City of Boise. It consists of 75.8 acres that would be taken out of 3" Meridian and given to Boise if it were approved. A lot of the issue and the reason for ~~ ~ ~~. -~~~ " : this application, as I understand it -- I will let the applicant make his own presentation on ' ~~' that, but it has to do with the availability of city services. The City of Boise, apparently, ~~ ~, ' ~~ currently has water and sewer in Ustick Road, as well as Cloverdale Road, and a sewer '~L trunk is being installed in the parcels to the east. The City of Meridian domestic water Q~ •' ~, ~~~ supply also exists in Ustick Road and stops about 450 feet shy of Duane Drive, which is ~ .: ,~ ~ _ this road right here. Sanitary sewer for this project is still currently west of Eagle Road. "~ ~~ E~ There is a project under way to extend sewer, so that it's available to the east side of ~'- ~~ ~ `? Eagle Road. That project is on schedule to be completed by spring of 2003. You '``-' ° should have a -- ;~ Borup: Go to what point in 2003? ,may ~ r ~ ,= 4,: .~~~ ~;` - ~,~ Siddoway: I was just looking to see if I had a better vicinity map. Where it will be at the ^~~.~ ~ '~~ end of that project, it doesn't show here, but --okay. I'm going to let Bruce tell you. ~..; fE,A ~~ s' ~5~ ``- Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, the South Slough Sewer ~ Trunk line that I spoke of with the last application is the same sewer trunk that would - .' ~` serve this area. That trunk project that is under construction will extend sewer under ~~ ° ~~ ;:` Eagle Road -- to the east side of Eagle Road is where the project limits stop. It's ~~~ 1-~''~ approximately --unfortunately, the map on the wall doesn't -- ~~~;,: ~• ~ ,~ ~ Borup: Well, that's fine it stops at Eagle Road, on the east side of Eagle Road. ,~~ ~. i%, ~- ~ ~ y Freckleton: Correct. We are going to be boring under Eagle Road and then we will "~ ~ ~ stop on the east side, so -- f hyk "~ ~ ;°r~ Borup: That's right there at the South Slough? ;~ ~~', .;, Freckleton: Yes. ~F~ ~~ ~ .' ~ ~ 4 =~ ~ ~ Borup: Or are they going through -- are they going down the Sough Slough or down the street to Carol Sub? i '~ I ~~ -. ~~~ ' : ` Freckleton: It comes out to -- into Carol Sub and Leslie Drive and will extend out to k ' ~ ~ Eagle Road at that location. ~~~ f <„ ~t ~ , ~€ } ~~ f ~~. x .1, '~~r " r y s~~_~ ~ ~.~ , ~• ~ ~, ~~: ~~. ~P x ~ c~• ~~5 ~ }'~4 ~ ' r,l i~~; ~ x t,~° ~~'~ L-k i t ?~rw ~H",~w'tr~s~ i' _ .. ¢k ,% ti -~ ,,a .v.' -~,~~,,~.~~y.. ~`~~ ~~' ?~ ~~ '~ ~` <-i' ~. d x w~h~~r; ~` ~ r 1~~ r"` ~,~ .~"~~1~,~wr ~`~ r2^^'t ~' f ~`^~ ~ "i~`'~ r is ~t~` -_ ~ r ~ l_^ h f ; t .ij~ ~{ Y {~{~~'~rf~ 7 `~,~(~f~['~-~ C7 i i F~,:y, ~ ~' ~ ~ ~ ~5 i~ t~~ ,,"f1'Y~g.. . t +t ~ ~t _ ~ 'ty~-~ T ~ :1 46 ~ ~ 5 ~_ j.x ~ ~ ~f"G'S ~KFi:,.`S.~ ~ ay ~ ~~ ~ ~ ;~,'{'(~+Iy'y ~SJ+i'•?r~ t+tvlx~' P.F~4~ iCp,:u~ `~':fi~'~'n ~.; - i i. 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'l h ~ ~~ ~' 'cY flkH+ - - ;Af °hY _; t f '~ r ~ l:X'1`w ~x~ti ; -~'~ tr ~~ ~'js~~~+: X ~R`+J1 F, ~ c ~o-.F~,, r .ore-w Pr y t '.t i I fi ~ Vii', x ~3 ~_i~~ry x,« ~~ ~~!:ti^~ 'N`~c ~ 1Y j ~r 5i~_ h s. ~t~3 '.~~ },F >':~ ~ i ' :~ Lt ~ 7 h 1L, .~~KSY ''ik.S:{~iTrC ~t ~!Y~> ~~~ ~ k!r.~ 1 i ~.~ ~- - ' ~~~~ ~~ - '1~~T ~ '..lr 1 ,~ 4~yfS4 ~"~~ f~Z~'~ i'rp ~ ~ tf ` ~C'4~ l'f ~ .ark.` s..~y4 ~.. ~ ! v Y~k~# .xr `Y~' ~~; ~ ~ r, ~ ~'tir ~ ~ .. - - ~~ r r~ 5 ~f~4~ :'A~',r'~~~1o~+i-.:7nA„"iS' .~ ~,3 ~4'~~'~':Jt ~k~~ fr~ ~~~i'~~• r ~~.; 1~ r ' a r ~ .:, ~ N a yam.' `~ y.~ a r, C ~~ :: t {. ~ ,. - - r ~ a ., r,r 1 .~ ~ j t ., T ! t vrrx x .. ~ '+ +. ~'' ~ 7y1 iii ~~ ~ R~r ~+ ~C r~ t C ~~lir S~ v x~ 1_~ - .. rt r. t .,. .,. , , .. (~:._' ~ ",~ .r 1pa,iE~~~M'~ ~ ~~~~~~F~w'C*". rL^ ~ ~~' y. ~4_ ~S+R.^ y"1 ~ .'~(~, r~~ ~ _. ~~ ~~'il ~• t~ i ~~ 1P 1T ~r~~+7k ]~h~4 ~~~' N~ 2~1a" 1 ~~ ~'-a :' ~~.. ~' ~~?~~ ...ik __ y s,s't~. " .~ `r~~ Y~r}~~x ~ .a~:; .. f$"':fit, , :;~ ~'.. -5 ~` .~ ."~k~4•~. ..~~ . .f.. .: ~ ~r . fit _,. ~ ~ n r r r r 4 ~, t-i t' d ~~ - , , ;~~_ ~::-~ ~: ~;. ~; : > Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 12 of 74 Borup: Okay. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman. Bruce, is Wal-Mart being served now? Freckleton: Wal-Mart? Borup: Wal-Mart is a mile away. Freckleton: Wal-Mart is clear down to Fairview. We are a mile north. This is Ustick Road. Zaremba: Oh, Ustick. I'm sorry. Borup: Did you have anything else, Steve? Siddoway: I would just point out that you should have a staff report on this one hot off the press, dated today, December 5~', from Brad Hawkins-Clark and Bruce. The only things I feel to point out in there -- on the second page of that report, near the bottom, is a section called application findings. In the Meridian City Code, while it doesn't specifically address required findings for area of impact changes, it does site three factors in defining the area of city impact itself. Those three factors are, one, trading area, two geographic factors, and, three, areas that can reasonably be expected to be annexed in the future. On the next page, Brad goes through each of those one by one and the summary of that is there in the middle of Page 3, where two of the above findings and C can be found in favor the City of Meridian. B, which is the geographic, is neutral, because it is adjacent to Boise, as well as Meridian. It's right on the edge. Under the additional considerations it talks, again, about the ability to serve the property with urban services. The main road block is -- for developing this property would be, one, annexation route, because it's currently not contiguous with city limits and, two, securing a route to bring the sewer from Eagle Road over to this parcel. The staff recommendation on the last page is for denial. We don't feel that there is strong enough evidence to remove these 75 acres from the City of Meridian's area of impact. We would recommend that it remain in our area of impact. The city will be able to offer i . ~,~ ; ` services within the required 10 years, as stipulated by Ada County, and likely much w,>;.-~ ~ ~ ~ much sooner than that. We have an amended boundary description for this that I'm ~~` ~, .`~* going to put up now that was just handed to us. Okay. The area outlined in orange ;r there is apparently the proper request. I believe that as it was submitted it included this ~$~ ~ ~ ~ parcel in its description of -- I would also point out that with -- by taking this area out and ''~ _ ~ '' not these, it creates a little island of Meridian city impact that's all by itself, surrounded ~^ : `~~~ , by Boise City. With that, I will stand for any questions. _ r ' Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for staff back to this development of the water :~`:; ~ ~j ~ and sewer. I would assume that the City of Meridian has moved forward with a }`- _ aw ~ ~~ ' ` development based upon the annexation of this parcel at some point in time down the ~f ~ road. If, in fact, the trunk route is capable of handling that, then, it seems like that ,~~~ .. - ~` Sr , „rrx, . ~~ ~ ,~ ~ :k.; '~ $ ~Yr.^'~'~` $ i v ~. ~. ti ! fi ~., .i er 1~ ~~ - '~ ~.,~ ' °ti, r.,i t -.. C ice.' k w~ +*.~ #~ wK.k-~. :i~ v - ,~ S ~ t1s ~ rea ~*ra r r x. i`. ' y~;` ~y '' ~,t ~ L A h 4 !~l t 4+r~i l .~~ 3 !~~-~,~'; J'~i yA ! 1'Y~ 3 ~t 't_, - , , :j r ~~~' 3 K~ ~ r ~ '~>~ ~ ~ Y ~~~ x ~k~'~i ~ t3~f1~ ~, ., '~a '€~df` ~ }ik ti ~~} L - .,. x,. .. ~l s jj . sr'~,, ~ ~ '~'~'-F .g~ 9 - ~ '' o ~Ni!`';°;°i~r.+~'s').M , ~s,..r ~fi~rl~ ~ +~ ''r'-f'~ '~c,r;'~,:y'h~j~P"_~,~~`? >- ,~~~ f Y'~R'44~ t f..~ .~ ~~ ~,~ jKA' {~h ~ id ', ~ rg~~. yy.. ~~y t e 4 ~ ,~ t 'L C t ~ %y !~ X11 ~ V~ .iT _f. l Y A t .~yl ~Y + '~`ji~Y~ I~.y' .,. J ~"1 ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ '~ Y~. ~Y - ~ t , z9 t ~7i ~' ~ ~i~ '>, ~} Ft 7S~~x ~H+' y}may;,~ »:~ir -0,`.~' R'r 3 y y ~~ [~ ~~ ~ ~ ii - ' x ' ~; r~, .~t ~wv~ ~f~.~ f~r„~ -~'~t~bG~,~~.};na~S f"sy3„ ,'~~r~~ '~.~~r ~t +{,;:~f~'~''~'ka ~~~~.~. - ^Scq'..r' i«.. 1 ~ .; {.. ,~ 1._ f i- Y ~ .,, ' f is&t i ~ :rP ~ , ~~'`~~~, i-: z a.. '~ ~J~ #"' ~. k +~' '°'Y 4t~:-w 14 ;~~ ~~. sic i ~ .~' - ..5 ~-:~ :.. i s . tr - ~[ ~'°" Cr' ~ ~ r1 a ~ ,, + h K ,~ ~ 1,.1 c"H ~ ~ ;i T<}, ~^~%~ + r~ t. ~ ~ -T;. . i -~x / - - ,} ~ b _ _ ~*IH ~: F i V"~ F ~ Ft/,.L. ~~~~y[~; I~G.S~~ C~~ ~1 xS'Y J ~t ~'~~knL~ `y~ ~ tiA[ ~L ~~. S t ' {r "~ }-r';,~f4 ~iti1~'i t ~' a. ' ~~~~'~{ v~ ~~ M'/' ~ ~'~',i~•~-+t fs ~ .tc.s "' 7`j~.~ ~ :~~ t B -.~ a~xy ~,,. ~y..: : ~[[, rrY e:~ L e ~ ;~.[~ ~$+Yi..L~'~'~'X` ~'~~2yy-r--~~ a. ~ ... ~j ~53- ~Y'. .y~.'n; i. _~ :1~ ~ 7~~ ~ W ~r({~~~~ ~ ~~~~{'~jJ ~~t~~~i i4F~~~}w ~il Yid 4. T r _ ,` a , ... .. ~~x~„- -... ,:A~ s _ ,. ~;'.,.s}, fl .'.a ~. 37, r i?R > 4.+~ .'? '# ~ k~4'y ~ ~"~-~`~tG .m">4 ' - - - , .t eft,. ?/z~ t iE +., n E r }'~4~ ~~ ` dry. ? t ,. ~ :'fir y~ .. ~,+k~ ,~ 7 ~,~`~¢~ i~3~.~"' 3 ;' ~ t w,~~4-: ~7 i ;~~' n ~~a`y~~ti s: ,: ~;~~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 13 of 74 ``a~ capacity would potentially be wasted if it weren't tied in at some point in time down the road. Is that a correct assumption? Freckleton: Commissioner Rohm, Members of the Commission that is true. The City of Meridian hired consultants several years ago to prepare Master Facility Plans for the city. Those plans basically looked at the entire urban service planning boundaries and tried to determine the routes for sewer and trunk lines and sizing of the mains to take in the service areas of, you know, the properties that would be going to those certain mains. Yes, you're entirely correct. The main sizing is there for that and -- ~~ Rohm: Well, that's the purpose of having these in the first place, so you can plan for your future development, and it would -- it seems like it wouldn't be in good keeping to <~ change it at this stage of the game. .a. Centers: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Centers. Centers: This parcel, is that Mittleider? Because I had a letter in my packet, Mittleider, 'a and the applicant will probably address it, where he's saying, hey -- Borup: That's what I was wondering, too. It might be the other comer down there. Centers: Okay so Mittleider is not included. Okay. I have a question, also, Steve. In ~4 Brad's summary where he considers trade area, geographic factors, areas that can reasonably be expected to be annexed in the future, he's saying that he finds A and C part of that equation and it can be found in favor of the City of Meridian. Siddoway: Correct. Centers: Cis areas that can reasonably be expected to be annexed in the future. Siddoway: Correct. Centers: How far is this property from the City of Meridian because you talk in your ~~hj comments about other property owners that may want to be annexed in the future? `_` How long -- or not how long, that's -- who in the heck knows. How many properties are in between there? _ Siddoway: Currently, the closest city limits is that Stokesberry Subdivision on that ofFce park that's in front of River Valley Elementary on the west side of Eagle Road. We have Aga city limits that come over to Eagle Road, but not east of Eagle Road, because it's currently not sewerable. That is supposed to change by spring of next year. Centers: Well, that still doesn't answer it, because, you know, I can see where you're talking about, but I guess the best question would be how many property owners are Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 14 of 74 involved between this property and the city? I got to think that, C, as Bradley Hawkins- Clark is addressing, is hypothetical. He has no idea when those properties will be taken into the city or even if they want to be and for this property to sit there -- anyway, go - ahead. Siddoway: The left side of this map would be Eagle -- yes, Eagle Road. This is Ustick. Current city limits come over to this area adjacent to Stokesberry. Centers: Is this a quarter section right here so that's a quarter mile? Siddoway: Yes that's ahalf--mile. Centers: That's ahalf-mile. Okay. Siddoway: Yes this would be Cloverdale so it's on the half mile. You know, if this parcel and this parcel came in, there are two to get to here. Of course, we just learned that this one is not really in but it depends on the annexation route. It could be a few it could be several. _ Centers: Well, I guess that's my point. I don't agree with Mr. Clark that it can be reasonably expected to be annexed in the future, because it all depends on these people. =~ Siddoway: Well, it -- Centers: And I don't think Mr. Clark went out and talked to those people and said, you know, do you have plans for development here. It could be 10 years it could be 20. It could be two. I agree but I don't think we can sit here and say that it's going to happen soon. Go ahead. Borup: Well, I think there is some interest on some of these. I can see that soon. It's z when you get further east that -- Freckleton: Commissioner Centers -- Centers: Let me finish one thing while I'm on the thought process here. In the last application we gave a will serve. Why couldn't we do the same thing here or consider the same thing? By the summer of '03 you say you will. <w; ~~~ Siddoway: The will-serve letter means that we will provide services once it's contiguous and able to be annexed. This already has that agreement in place by definition of being ~: in the area of impact so it has that. ~.. Centers: Could you do a will serve and will provide? I'm with you, I hate to see it leave =~'~ the city, but if we are going to have services there, why can't we agree to provide them? ~~~-~ Does it have to be in the city, Mr. Chairman? I don't know. °:Y\" ;: '~.~~.; Meridian Planning & Zoning • December 5, 2002 Page 15 of 74 f .~ ~; y':~ .. Borup: To provide services? Centers: Yes. Borup: Well, that's been our policy. We do have a couple of projects that are outside the city, but that gets into the precedence that -- and some of the problems that Boise has. Zaremba: In a previous meeting when we discussed a requested amendment to the urban services area in the Comprehensive Plan, it was this kind of subject. If there was a leap frog development, the Comprehensive Plan says that their utilities have to be connectable, but not necessarily connected, so that when we eventually are annexed to that point, that they be brought into our service area under our quality standards. That was the statement in the Comprehensive Plan that we discussed pretty thoroughly. Borup: Well, I think besides the annexation path, there also needs to be a sewer path that's feasible. Okay. Anything else? Did you have -- you were done? Siddoway: I'm done. Mathes: Steve, I have a question. Is that the soccer field on the comer? Siddoway: It is. Yes. Mathes: So they could go up that direction? Siddoway: Yes. Well -- Borup: No. Mathes: The soccer field is not sewered yet? Siddoway: Yes, it is contiguous with the ShopKo Subdivision. Meridian Crossroads so that is a possibility, too. Yes. Yes. I should clarify that is a possibility for an annexation ~~ route, while the sewer would still have to come from the west, not the south. Borup: Okay. Centers: And is this City of Boise right here? Siddoway: Yes. Mathes: Can you go from two different ways, sewer going one -- as long as it's contiguous with the city? If the whole property gets developed, is that going to be on a different sewer line? If annexation is from this comer, but sewers from that corner, does it all go -- get all the rules? ~ ,:. ~ ~., ~ - 3' w K i - _ 4 ~ ~; , ~~ r ~ ! p ~ '~ ~ - . ~ ( e~ ~ ~ ~k ~ _ ~ yy,, ~ n 3~'`~~"". t ~ ~ ~L ~ q ~ r ; r . ,~i~~ ~ _ ,. ;~ v ekrr x _ . r,~ n ~~~~ ~ la ' ~y t~+ ht '. ~ `{. h's ~ q ' ur ~ ~ 4' ~ ~ ~ { `~3 ~ y ,h,, ~ >c.: s: ~~ ~ ~i ~ ' ' ,L v s t' r x~a : i!~ ~Y .,,~ ,~Y fr i' '4~~\ ~ ' ~ , ~r af - . C. ir~ i. i~ { ''~'" „ Y _ _ Meridian Planning & Zoning ~k": , ~ ~" ~ ~ December 5, 2002 ~ = ~ ~ Page 16 of 74 sr n, .. ~. r' ~~k` •~ ,. Freckleton: If the annexation route is through the Criner property on the corner, sewer ~~~ ; x ~ would still need to come out to this line that's being stubbed to the west -- to the east ~`~. _ ~_ ; ~t~ . ~ side of Eagle Road. This property on the comer, that's where it's going to be sewered ~:: y _' ~ to as well. r ~ +:.~ 4r Mathes: Oh. Okay. t~ ~ ~r~ .>, ~ ,:_ ''~. ~ Freckleton: Yes. One thing I did want to point out, this is the Caven property right here ry ~~ that you met on a few months ago. We have had several inquiries from people about `~' ' ~X~~ =~ this roe The Winston Moore roe is ri ht here that ou heard about. I s oke ~. ~ ~Y, p P -~Y• p P rtY ~ 9 Y P :.°x:~ ~ of another piece that's next to Winston's piece that is a future development. My point is ''' ~ ~ ~` there is a lot of interest and activity happening out in this area, although applications ~ ~' ~ have not been formally filed for them, because what we are -- they have to happen in ~` consecutive order, the contiguity, but I do -- yes, I definitely agree with Brad's statement ~~, ~~ ~~7 ~ that it's reasonable to assume that it will happen real soon. ' `~ ~, ~~~~ Mathes: Where is Summers at? ~. ,r ~.~ ;: ' ~ ~ Freckleton: It's right --what, one of these, isn't it? E ;~ ski r'~ Borup: Right there. Yes. ~~~ ~ ~ Mathes: It's not city yet? ~~ :~ ~~ Freckleton: It's not city yet, but it is served by city water. n->~ .r; , r~ ~~ ~ s Mathes: Okay. ~,. Freckleton: One other -- if I could. One other thing I did want to point out is in my staff ~_ ; ~ h ~~ ~` ~~'~ comments on page -- on Page 3, under additional considerations, where I talk about ,~ ,,_, ~q~ ; ~ tk;~ Public Works Departments from both Boise City and Meridian City have met. The plan ~~ that I spoke of earlier, our Facility Plan that we developed, in answer to your question, ~~ ~~ ~ Commissioner Rohm, both Boise City and Meridian City are looking at our Facility Plans .~ ~t ,:,. ~" ~~ ~ as to how can both cities serve certain parcels on our entire common boundary from ~,- Chinden Road all the way down south of Victory. What the intent is is for our staffs to ~ = ti=~`'~`{ basically come up with a line that is not just a line in the sand, but it is a line that both ~s `° ~F~ r~ ' , cities can serve per their Facility Plans that have been developed over the -- you know, d 5,~ ~ for their systems, their sewer and water system. What our proposal would be that once i ~ ~ ~x~. '~ our staffs agree on a line, a logical line, that one application would be filed for wr ~ adjustment of our common line between us and Boise, take care of this once and for all, `~" ~ ,<~ • ~ so that we are not back in here with each of these individual parcels with several other ~ ~ Av '- ~. ,. applications, we will do it one time. ~~ r, T }r Zaremba: Are you finding that that's adecision-making process or are you finding ,; `~'4n _~ places where geographically the slope requires it to go one way or the other? r~ ,ti~~'F'~-,T F~, ,~::~ v ~:•- f ~. ;' ,~ ~- ~- ,;. ti z~.".; `; ..,.:: ~ _ ' 4 ffi ~ Py h~ ~ ~ } rn ~ r'r ~ ~ ~~ ~ ti ~-~. 'C,hv.u '~ #~ ' }~ r,'~?y t ~~•. - - 3 .mat C-- I ,. f - ^Z,` h 4f ~ ~ ~ s fi + i i;j ~ r4' j ~' ill r~#. - d~ k 1. .r. '~br S; ~,~P Y _ yam` µ r r ~ y _ r y :, ~' e k ~I~ 7 ,-; Lt:: 'z J 'h`9~~ ~"}-~` J4r I i, i`~~ I ~'C~dra ~3~,."-Y" ~~~~^.`~Ci~~~7k '' nl, >Sgs,,„a -. a~ -• 4:: ~ ~ ~ , ~ ~y,tcr` a T- n~{ '~' a tiW .y ~ .. ., k r,: .t'v w T ~ 5 u r 3~ .Lrr}} t" Y y'1~'. ar ' rS.'st. .~~ ~ w ~:..~. 'e~ ~4~ a~'~YfP~? ../ ~ r2:~~a 7N~~t~ ,"~~-~ ~fi ;fr~4~, ~.t~';.~ ~ fit' sE1r- .i a `'x 1k 'N its r `3k.r " z ~ rs ;+ ~ °~ -tl' S~a7-aci ~. ,; 9' r,~.. - •' r ^ b,T =. ;~, „ Y s ,r yam: rS- 4 ~ - t ~~~,n,... ~C ~ } i : k i rt f .'.: ~ r l ~-r C i ~ 4y Mt ~.~ -.._ ~ .4 h M 4 'W~ ~ , ~~'~'I•. r `s~,.AZ~•~."'~'~ .',~ ~}'.~f."tit".'!~ Y~ yCE2 ~ g ~r 2 ;fi1+~r I~~ r ~F ,, :. -. ~ ~, ~ i4Z4 ~ ~~ ~~ { '~ v.~a' Sri' ~ .i s ~. '~L ~ ~ ~~ ~~~~ "~" ~~~ T~~ ~ E'~`+{ F ~Y ~~' ~ "'f f. W d 4G ~~ c, ~t;;.~'' f ~ t '~ j •c,~~r ~~~,^i~a .1~~'!r.. ,y w~ i~tt~fjl ~r~Y j`` 4 ~~~ati 4~ ~ ''~ g - _, . - ~Y tT~•~i~: ~..:; t, t„ ,..-;7 v.K .- ~;{~•.": +tr ~ +..r`'.i ~yl Y-:'S ~"x~ kN 7; 1ri-~*r5`G~z'"-1~,~ {•=~, ~. iF. .. -_.. ,`~, ~ f• rn`.. ..-. 1 ;~nfi'y 1}ay,'.. * r .rli k~! ~'f rry17 .. t.~ ~ 3. •Y,~ o ^avp>.7w~ ~A ~~ a~ °tS~, '~ s t 1 ~~t~cp+,y~i„ >•'" ,3 t'+e' - - ,' ~t ate:- .v ,~, j :f r}~, ~y ~ h , v;;4'~~ ~;~ ~ ~ ~ a : ; , - ' Meridian Planning & Zoning _ ? ~• ' ~ ~ ~ ~:. ' December 5, 2002 Page 17 of 74 ,, : °~~ ' ~ '~ ' Freckleton: We are finding that it is a geographic -- yes. Definitely most definitely there ~.~ ~' .•~ }F ~ are parcels that really don't make a lot of sense being in Meridian and there is parcels ~'~"` ~ ~• ~ •: ;,~ that don't make a lot of sense being in Boise, so -- t t ; ~~ ~,~."~ ~.~ ; Zaremba: Based on geographies? _ ~ ~ .~~ Fiat »r' ;~~ Freckleton: Geographies. " . :.. k Y "- Zaremba: Elevation. . ~, ~ 4 - . ~ Freckleton: Exactly. s , .,, ~ ~ .> ~~ r' ~~~~ _ ~ Borup: So is there any type of time frame on that understanding between the cities? .; ~,~ ~~ ": , ~ _`.; ~. mean is it going ahead or -- r~ n~_ ~~~ ~,:~ ~ Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I don't have a solid time line. ;5 k r. ~' However, this is a subject that has caught a lot of attention from members of our City ~ 1 ' 1 f ~ f" Council and the authorities with Boise City as well. I think there is some mutual interest ~ y , t ' ~ in getting it done. ~~~~ • ~4F'ti~ -'~ ~ s , - ir°.: . Borup: Okay. I just wonder if it's one of those things that are going to take 10 years or , ~~=" ~' ,• ;- ~. sooner. Any other questions from the Commission? Are we ready to move on? Would `° ~.}. ~ ; the applicant like to --apparently you do have some presentation you'd like to make. yr 4, ; y.N x~ l ~ ~ Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, 1100 East Valli-Hi, Eagle. I'm representing the applicants in ~ ~ ;:{ this matter. For the record, I did not prepare this application, nor did I submit this , -'4~ " :~ i application to the City of Meridian. I was approached a couple of weeks ago by the ,"~ N ~` ;~j f. applicants, asking if I would take this project up, represent them at this hearing and see " Y~~ ~ ~ ° if I could clarify some of these issues. First up, as Bruce and Steve indicated, the map ~" ~~£ " ` as submitted with the application is in error. It is incorrect. There were two properties ~~=-~ ~" , that were included in the map. Somebody inadvertently at a particular engineering firm ' ` ~ ~ just drew the line and squared it up and made it look nice and that is not correct. One ~{~_ ~ ~ " property is owned by the Smitchgers, it's aone-acre parcel located on Ustick Road. '? ~ The other property is this five acre parcel located in the southwest corner of the one that ~ ' you received the letter on from the -- the Mittleiders, is that how you say that? ~J ~ ; ~ Mittleiders. I want to go on the record that those two properties are not part of this x" ` ~ ~ application. Those owners did not consent to being a part of this so I don't want any '~ ~ ~ ~ ,r ~ confusion to take place. Area of impact is a difficult thing. In 1990, I worked at Ada ~~". County Development Services and Ada County was the mediator between the City of ` ~,b T ., Meridian and the City of Boise on where to draw these impact boundary lines. As you -~ ~~ '. well know, when those lines are drawn, that city is assuming responsibility for providing ~f at some point in the future serviceability with sewer and water, that they have the other ~~~ ~ ~~ services that can handle that particular property or development of that property. ~"~ ~"~ '' asked at one point in time when I worked at Ada County why didn't you pick a roadway `~' ° '~~; ~ ~ like Cloverdale Road, why would you go one quarter mile west and draw this arbitrary ~-. ' fir. 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J - 4a~' ~~ ~ M d ~ F-~ ,u ~ ~*,4. r ~ ~'~ ., ti srtY ,E. Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 18 of 74 party? And they said because we did not want Boise City mains and Meridian City mains, sewer mains that is, both in the right of way, it's too difFcult. They said that's why we picked this one-quarter mile and we said, now, topographically we think that we can serve over here in the City of Meridian and then the City of Boise serving onto the west Boise Sewer Plan. I'd like to show these aerials. It kind of gives you an idea of what's out there now. The applicants had these taken. The subject property is here in red and this is correct showing those two parcels that were erroneously included outside. As you can see, this Dawson Subdivision is right at that one-quarter mile. My clients own this 20 acres right here that is in Boise's area of impact and fronts on Cloverdale Road and then they also own to the west and then over here in a northwest direction. As you can see, the City of Boise, here is downtown, here is Fairview Avenue, and you can see how the city has grown out. This is Cloverdale Nursery, which is one of the last few remaining open areas. This parcel here at the comer of Ustick and Cloverdale and here you can see Boise on the north side of Ustick, how it's grown out. Then everything seems to come to a screeching halt at that one-quarter mile line. If you look at this other aerial photo, this gives you a good idea of the City of Meridian. You're looking west. This would be north. Here is Ustick. Heather Glen Meadows. Here is the Summers Funeral Home you can see. Here is our subject property outlined in red and you can see how the City of Meridian has grown and you can follow -- Borup: I think you just pointed out the grade school when you said Summers. Bowcutt: Oh. Is that the grade school? Borup: Well, no, next to -- Bowcutt: Oh, you're right. Sorry. I'm sorry. It's there. Good point. That's a church. That's a new church. That threw me off. Borup: Okay. Bowcutt: There is a grade school. That's a new church facility. Summers is down there. I apologize but you can see the city limits. This is Summerfield so right now your city limits are right here at the eastern boundary of Summerfield, which is approximately one half mile west of the intersection of Eagle Road and Ustick. Then, as Steve indicated, the city limits are down at that school on Eagle Road, I believe right down in this location there. This aerial photo was taken I think about a week ago, so it is current, and it gives you a real good idea of what's out there. I'd like these submitted into the record. We met with the City of Boise, John Johnson, one of the City Engineers, and we spoke with him about the possibility of sewering this property. For the record, there is an existing Boise City sewer main, it's about -- it's approximately 14 feet deep right in front of this subject property. It's a 15-inch line, transitions to the east into a 10-inch line. He went through and looked at the elevations from aerial photos that they had taken when they do their sewer planning to evaluate the possibility of sewering this and he realizes this is a political question. This is not an engineering question, but .~'~ f t` y+ Y a , j ,1t r ~ck.,Y~ v fG ~ p a = ' as ds. a° : ~+'t - , ~ _r x 1:~ ~., St ."7 .~ -. .~ ,,Y~Y x~ c ~ ~ ~r ~ ~ , ~~ ~ _. ,g ~~". ~7 '.t mr~/,'rt ~"~ y i 7p ~-~ S~".,t3 y~3 ~i '~i.f-'-x , 3r`, _ - .~ 1, ;{ ~ i ~ 1 ,tA~a~. T t.~J7a~` rt T7'. ,.: ,ad`~'~'~r+!ot.Y. yl,~ct,~.5:~"~ ~~'~i r.^ i vQ~,~`~. k~~N 'a 2;~~ r.3« -W~^~ ~ .. .. ~~,.. ~, .~i-,. ~ ~ t i+. ~ 4 7D. ~ psi. .4..a. t ~ M1 x C h Y ~ '{ . t ~ i~a ~+ ~ ~ ~ ~'4 ~•~'~`o ~1i-~.'i4rt7' B F ,~ ,5`~{ „yti ~, 5 } ~~ ~ ~ . { ~ ~y'~: t.fC~~ )) ~'r't r 'k ? y C i .41~ Y~F k 53 ~C t^a3R? 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YP .fYy~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ,~ ~n ;~' 4 ~ , :. ,; ~~ ~ r,V,. i _ f~E jr~;,, Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 19 of 74 more a political question, when we look at something along this line of excluding from an area of impact. He's extended these lines, as you can see he wrote down inverts and it was his determination that there is a break line where this northern portion would go out to the Ustick Trunk and then the southern portion. The southeastern portion would go into a trunk line that's located over here that is -- goes out to Cloverdale Road. When we look at a map of this property, it's very unusual in the fact that it's almost an island surrounded by what we call estate-type residential. These were acre lot subdivisions that were approved in the county years ago most of them are on septic and well. This is the Perkins-Brown along that western boundary over here. Here is the Boise area of impact. We have Briarwood. This is Dawson Subdivision, that's the one that you see in the aerial photo that's under construction here and then to the south of us this is Clover Meadows. This is a new development here, Autumn Leaf, that came in a few years ago and this property would sewer -- they stubbed here and the portions that's in Boise's area of impact would sewer into this stub street and then this southern portion would sewer here up to this zig line. This ziggy line is kind of a break in topography. Everything would go north to that trunk everything would go south into this eight-inch trunk line there. When we -- we had the engineer for the applicant take a look at the possibility of -- the possibility of -- I have got too many drawings. The possibility of when Meridian sewer is extended what -- what would that do to the property. Well, you got your South Slough Trunk running, it will come and bed bored to the east side of Eagle Road. Based on the preliminary determination of the applicant's engineer, the trunk would have to be extended down Ustick to this northern portion or the northern 37 acres and then this would flow but the southern portion could not flow into that line. Now, you have to extend along the South Slough the other trunk that you're bringing across and boring here at Eagle Road, extend that up, somehow get through this unrelated parcel, somehow get through the Mittleider's parcel here to get to this parcel. It would basically have to come from two directions and that's based on the preliminary information that I received this evening from the engineer so that does cause a problem. We start looking at, from a cost perspective, how can we cost effectively service these properties. That was never considered when they drew that line at the one-quarter mile. Nobody ever considered it. If you look at your land use planning map, you can see that there is kind of a zigzag through here where areas were deleted and went to Boise based on the ability of Boise City to provide sewer and the inability of Meridian to provide sewer. It wasn't based on just timing, but it was also based on topography. I did this area of impact adjustment where we removed that from the Meridian's impact area when I did Cameron Park, Madison Park, and I did The Legends. I have done a lot of projects over here on this McMillan, Eagle Road corridor. Down here, you can see the line comes -- and it's nice and straight and then it kind of zigs out. Well, that's Edgeview Estates and I did an area of impact adjustment there that was one of my projects. Then it zigs over here and that's Ironwood and I did an area of impact adjustment there, and it was due to topography. That's the Ridenbaugh Canal and nobody ever thought when they drew that line that that Ridenbaugh Canal would prohibit the ability for this to sewer to the west to Meridian and the majority of those properties at that time lied within the City of Boise's area of impact. The line is not -- I guess my point is the line is not hard and fast and to just on a map arbitrarily draw a line one quarter mile without consideration of topography at times and ownership, u + ~,:3 Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 20 of 74 °', makes it difficult. We would like -- we know that the ultimate decision is up to the ~* Council, because it's a political issue, but we'd like you to take into consideration, ~~ R~ because your opinion is important to us also, that there are circumstances that are unique to certain properties in certain areas. Boise has, obviously, released some ~~~ property in the application that was before us. Their staff has indicated to me there is property at -- I believe it's the northwest corner of Overland and Cloverdale, which they determine they cannot service -- is it southwest? Southwest. I stand corrected -- so that they would be interested in giving that to the City of Meridian. They are not always looking to just to take. I think we are passed the '90s when it was a turf war. We had :~ ~_ two cities butting heads, vying for area for future growth, and when we look at the map, ~ we -- I have been spending most of my time working on North Meridian and, as you can ~ see, that North Meridian area -- this is your area of impact to the northwest. It is wide "` ~ ' `'~ open. One of the arguments you guys had with the Caven area of impact removal application, which, by the way, I did put on hold. We intend to most likely withdraw that application, because I convinced my clients under the circumstances of that property it was best they stay in Meridian. In that case, you guys focused on the fact that that was going to be highway commercial, a high dollar generating development, which is absolutely correct. Here we are talking single-family development. On your Comprehensive Plan it's designated medium density residential. On Boise City's r ~~~ ~- ~-~ , Comprehensive Plan adjoining it is low density residential. Residential. Sorry. We are not talking those high tax dollars like was argued with that 40 acres there on that northeast corner of Eagle Road and Ustick, we are talking residential. It is always -r'; difficult for a planner to take a piece of property that is split between two jurisdictions and try to plan, because we are always looking at it from -- we are dealing with two `' different types of standards, two different types of priorities and Comp Plans, two r different Public Works. It has been done, but it is not preferred. We think that it makes sense that this go to Boise. As you can see from the aerial photos, the majority of that n•.~`~ development out there is the City of Boise. Meridian has got a lot of land to be developed Boise, there in that west area, they are definitely running skinny. We have kind of chewed up most of that land over the past I would say 10 years. I will stand for questions. ~,=y Borup: Questions from the Commission? _ L; Rohm: Good presentation. Good job. r fi Borup: I have got one. You were talking about the sewer feasibility. How accurate was that? Do you know how much time was spent on that? I realize -- I mean it's very preliminary, but you said it wasn't feasible to sewer. Could you expand on that a little bit more? Bowcutt: Okay. I think what I was getting at is it is feasible, but -- . ~.~=, ~~~ . fry Borup: Well, you said it would have to be split, but you said -- ~' ~ Bowcutt: Split. Right. ~. '-= r. ':: '. Cdr.." .~ ~.. v fi7 :•y> r'' :`~,. 4 `;. ?,~+ z ~„~•, ~` r ~ #:-,, z' ~r.: ~> . 5:. ~. a..: _~ ~,., s; ~: `~, ;, ~ ~,:: ;, - ~ ;' F- ;.; ~. S;c: ~:. ~,- ~, .:,_; _:;; . ,: ~: <. ;,- t ~~ ~~~ ~y ~i ~ 4 ti, ~w . 0 ~~~ 2' +` t' ~7 ~ 1T~1'~ ~' ~Yti .. { i 4 Iy~'n .- ~•~.- . r. F `~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 21 of 74 Borup: -- you can't service the whole parcel with one line. Bowcutt: With one trunk that is correct. That information -- I believe they have been working on it for approximately one week. Call it -- I call it preliminary information, because I have not provided that information to your staff for them and, typically I like to provide the information to your staff to also look at their data and see if everything is correct. Borup: So you're saying any -- there is not enough depth with a single trunk line, either one? Bowcutt: That is correct for one line to service the entire property, which lies within the Meridian impact area. Based on their preliminary study, we would have to bring a line down the North Slough, somehow get easements across these properties, easements across that property, and get into here. Then it could only service about up to this mid point, then we would have to extend sewer in Ustick Road down to this northern parcel, and only this parcel can go that direction. That's the data that I have received today right before the hearing. That's why I call it preliminary, because I have not had time to confirm it, and, like I said, provide that information to your staff for their review also. Borup: I'm sure they'd like to review it. All right. Thank you. Bowcutt: And the cost for extending the line along this slough is between 300 and 375,000. That's just for the one trunk. That does not include the Ustick extension. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman if I could ask a question, just for clarification for my own use. Becky, didn't you say that Boise City's line couldn't serve the one trunk either basically it had to split, part north, part south? Bowcutt: It splits north and south, but both trunks are right there adjoining the property. Yes, sir. That is correct. Borup: So this would be one of those situations where there would be trunk lines in two jurisdictions in the same area if it came down Ustick? Bowcutt: It's already in Ustick. Borup: I mean if Meridian's came down Ustick. Bowcutt: Yes, sir. Borup: That's what I'm talking about. Bowcutt: Yes. Borup: Two trunk lines in the same right of way. .dYh J' Y~~r'YI ~J~ ~ ~ t $1 a ~ r~ ;' 4~ r 5~ r r'` " is ~ y~ a ~~ .t t T ~'i"iH~$ eGS i 7j Qer~.l~.,l ~ s `: ~ ? C i ty,~:>'~Y~' ~ .;~t yam,. G •, ..~~ ~~,~'•~ ~~ .. c ~ h _~; ,at ~~5 y '1"1~ _ ~ r~ ~ ~ ~ _ l r ,~ f m1~'*fii ~1y~ :1„v ~r '.31~' ?j,J~c-0W@~-.~~ ~ ~c ~2r- ti 4 ~ ~ i r' r `t ~~~. ' at 1.:. ' , s „i r~ sin ~S, ~t~~~R'~~'A~•. ;~y1k fyaF,`A~~f '~:, Yl~ - _ h `~ ~ 7 .. k 4 ~ :y ~* 1 t n ~6 7 ~ ~ ~+.Pi^'6~ rY ,} ~. I " }f ^t, +~ 4 F L '~~ 1 ~ r ~~}~ r4{y~f F .?: ~ U ~ ' i t~ 1 j ;~,,,` - r ~ y~ ti ~ , i ~~~ ' V„ r,v.~ls~fl~~3~~~ fit c .n..{ ~ h ~ ~ i j ~ alw+- i,~ -Y+,. ati, ,..~ ? .r~, :j' - ~y Y A ~~ y ~~ ~ - , _ t 1 k rte, t ~ ti , .~i .x ~Ft~~ ~~ ^X T y,-~ -,~ R t - ~.j, ~ r? r s }.~ e .r T'r~ ~ ~ } s ~~ n 5~;;$4~`,~~tew 4;1t ~ 'Y~'7!t~f~~r;' ',~, _ r r _~ . .. ~ a ~ ~r i.~ ~ '~~, lYK: ! '.~ r.~ TA^S ~'Kii-~f ~~SS! roof. ri Z 1 p ~ ~ .~ ~ Tr ~` c ~ .;a ': r ~ ,~ { yu y ~ a'~ `f1 3 ~~ ti :L..sS -~' ~ ~ ;~,r 7c M , ,. _ t r'~ ~ - ~ - '~ ~ x e ~k- 1., .~.. ~ . >~~9 ~~r ~ ~ t ~~ [ ~ ~ - J~ ~~ ~~ -, f,~ ~ .. `'~ ~'~ -, a;~. ~:; ~~_. ~h'+'~t ~7; ~~. ~~ .;:< ~: „_~ ~~ ,.- .; 4~ x~~~ ~:~, ;;; , .` Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 22 of 74 Bowcutt: Yes. There is United Water and Boise City sewer in Ustick at this time across the frontage of this property. Borup: It goes to the grade school? Bowcutt: It goes over the Heather Glen Meadows. Borup: Oh, clear to Heather Glen. Okay. Bowcutt: And so, yes, we would have to find a corridor in Ustick to extend your water and sewer also and I don't know how you do that. I have never had to do that before. Freckleton: We currently parallel United Water in Ustick Road with the water line. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Bowcutt: Thank you. Borup: Do we have anyone else that would like to testify? Come on up. Smitchger: I am Virgil Smitchger, 4350 East Ustick. This is my 40 and seven years ago -- it's in the Meridian minutes -- Boise would not take this, because they couldn't serve it with sewer. Borup: How many years ago? Smitchger: Seven years ago about. They took the other side of the road in, but they left my place out. It was the only one that got left out. Borup: Okay. Is the subdivision across the road? Smitchger: Yes. Borup: It's on sewer, isn't it? Smitchger: Yes and they said they couldn't serve me and that was when Kingsford was in here. I don't know, Ijust -- I can't believe they can't bring that from the back, the way that land slopes. My water comes towards Ustick Road, everything irrigates that way, and the back part isn't much lower than I am, that adjoins me on the back, so all I can say is I would like to stay in Meridian. That's what I would like to see. Rohm: Which parcel is yours again, sir? Smitchger: This 40 on the top. Mine is right there and then this three acres that -- Borup: So at this time you do not have city sewer is that correct? _,, '~ '~~~~. ~ . I Meridian Plannin & Zonin 9 9 .: ~ December 5, 2002 Page 23 of 74 ~~{ ,. T:; `~~' Smitchger: Pardon? No. i; ~:` Borup: You're on a septic tank? ~:~;~ ,~ .. ' Smitchger: Yes. I got a septic and my own well and I got my own water from Nampa- :.: 'f`ry Meridian on my acre, so if they subdivide, they are going to have to provide me water ~'~~~~ for a quarter of a mile to get the water to me somehow. Okay. I guess that's all, but did -- I fought it pretty hard and Boise said they couldn't take us, the engineers. Thank .~ '" ~'.~ You. Borup: Thank you. Freckleton: Mr. Chairman? Could I -- `'°, Borup: Mr. Freckleton. _ Freckleton: -- make a point here? This application excludes these parcels. These ~~ parcels are currently in our area of impact. If this application were granted those parcels would be Meridian, this would be Boise. Boise is across the road. We would be -- this would be an island of Meridian here inside Boise's area of impact. Getting city services -- Meridian City services to this island isn't going to happen. It creates a real ~.' problem when we have -- when we are trying to create -- we are going to create an _.. island of Meridian inside of Boise. I don't think we can do it. Rohm: Well, I think you'd just end up having to vacate that as well, don't you think, Bruce? Borup: Do we have anyone else to testify? Come on up, sir. ,'r._. ,... ,. ~: ~y~ a~.~:, _ ~~~=, ~~ ~ pis-. ~,k _. ;, . .. __ Belcher: My name is Art Belcher, 2920 Duane Drive, Meridian. Our property would adjoin Boise if this goes through. I live in one of these two and a half acre parcels to the west there. I would much rather see this stay in Meridian, than go to Boise. I'm concerned about the density. The lady that did the presentation said that Boise would have low-density housing in that area. The property that's under development now on that 20 acres has 80 some sewer hookups marked out. That's four to the acre and if this other goes in, that's another 400 and some houses. We would be looking at, on the whole thing, with the other 40 on the east and we have 460 homes at four homes to the acre. When you break out 25 percent for roads and sidewalks and everything else, it gets pretty dense to be up against our property. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Grant: My name is Elvina Grant. I live at 2525 North Cloverdale. My parents have owned some of the property since the 1930s and the rest of it since 1955, which my brother and I and our spouses now have. Our desire is to have sold our property in one parcel -- in one sale to one party. Can the city provide city utilities, sewer, and water, to ~~,,~,t~ , f`,, c F f '~ h ~~X.~4~ t ~'SU' ± Buis ~,y~ t. .. t ~ - Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 24 of 74 `x`t~~ the entire site without demanding annexation to other landowners? Our farms are our `'~ retirement and the time has come for us to start this process. Thank you. Borup: Do we have anyone else that would like to come forward? Becky, did you have ya2'~ any final comments? Maybe one thing if you could clarify the differences in density designations between the two cities. You said Meridian was medium density Boise was low density? Bowcutt: Yes. Low density and the Boise Comprehensive Plan is a maximum of four dwelling units per acre. Your medium density is four to eight is that not correct, Steve? Do you recall four to eight? Siddoway: Three to eight. '~_"~ Bowcutt: Three to eight so it's a range, whereas Boise puts a cap. I just want to -- Borup: So going to Meridian could end up being denser than Boise. Bowcutt: Yes, sir. Borup: Possibly. .~ Bowcutt: Possibly because Boise has a four cap. One thing I forgot to mention, that the ~~ question arose when the city designs these trunk lines, Mer7dian that is, they size them "~~ as far as planning for future service to properties. Brad Watson, the City Engineer, indicated to me that your design standard is to handle 3.5 dwelling units per acre. In the North Meridian Plan, with the input from Smart Grow and some other agencies, they are j>'_ trying to push us to four to eight dwelling units per acre in some projects and they are ~~~~~ trying to boost our density. One of the questions that were asked of Brad Watson in r ~ ~ one of the roundtable discussions is is there capacity in these trunks and in the treatment plant if we try to boost and maximize our density to promote commuter ride and mass transit? The answer was probably not, not if they are boosting them up to 4r~ ~ eight dwelling units per acre. That is something to keep in mind, that they are designing ~~`` these at 3.5. I did ask the City Engineer for Boise do they have capacity to service this _.~-. a:<~:'.~ development and he indicated yes. ^' -"" Rohm: What changed? This gentleman back here that testified a little bit ago, said that when he requested annexation for consideration some time ago, Boise City said they ;~~ didn't want it. Isn't that kind of -- 'N~ Borup: Well, he said they couldn't sewer it. ,~. ~- Rohm: Just a question. '.' Bowcutt: Well, over time they extended the east and west Eagle Road trunks. I worked ,,'.; on those projects where we took those out of the plant, up the bench, across Chinden, ```i "~"~% ,~;:: -I ~~ , ,~ ; ~:' . ~~~~s~t~ ~ ~~,. ~> ; s~' 7 °~ 7~~ s rte3, ~~~. ~g "d7YfA~ ~5,~.~~iY ~t ~'- ~"~' +# k ~K a ,~ 5+;' ~- Nxj ~~`~ °Ijr ~ ~~' K BLS ~R~ . .. 1'' 7 t~ ~- ~~ ~fi-.~Y ~` .o' } a?>-. 5 w' .~~ ;~ x 9- ~ ~~ r Q ~ !~. -~ a~+K~'t i ~ }q 4 ~~. ~ - .. f.f-_` ~, Meridian Planning & Zoning ~=~"'` December 5, 2002 Page 25 of 74 ~..,-.. ~.:.~ , °~~'' and there is a west line and an east line. There used to be a bottleneck at Hewlett- ,: . Packard in the trunk that went through there and then dropped down the bench, but `;';, when they took that other -- those Eagle Road trunks out at the bench, then that added capacity. At one point in time he's probably correct, they did not have capacity to ~~;_ • service this property, because of the bottleneck at Hewlett-Packard. In fact, I was told ~~ ``' ~: the line was surcharged and that it could not handle anything until we brought those ~. Eagle Road trunks on line. This was in the mid '90s to late '90s. Mid '90s, I guess. F.: Borup: Okay. Does that conclude your comments? Bowcutt: Yes. Thank you. Borup: All right. Thank you. Commissioners, discussion? Reagan: Hi. I'm Sharon Reagan. I live at 12499 Briarwood Drive. ~;` Zaremba: Would you raise the microphone up, please? ~_~ Reagan: I live at 12499 Briarwood Drive. Zaremba: Your name. Reagan: Sharon Reagan. ~~ Borup: This is Briarwood here? `'?` Reagan: Right and we were part of the -- like you folks that got forced into Boise and ':~r our taxes go up to four percent for nothing. I'm really curious about how they are going to access the property, if they are going to come through our street, which is a dead end. ~:, .~ I ;v~ ~:<;"; ; Borup: At this point they don't have a project they are proposing, but they own this property right here. Or here. I'm sorry. Right. This is where that other subdivision is. I'm sorry. They own this property right here, so they would have access to Cloverdale right here and to Ustick up there. Reagan: I was just curious. I didn't know if there was any proposal or anything, but -- Borup: Some of that may depend on the design, what ACRD wants to be happening. Reagan: Okay. Thank you. That's what I was curious about. Thank you. Borup: Did I state that properly? Centers: Mr. Chairman, I would move we close the Public Hearing. ~~~*~~,~ ~~~~ r ~r ~~. z ~. ~ rN~~3 ~ ~~ ' ,~ 3s~ -. ~. xz~ 3 % ~~,, ~: Y+~ r» _ di ~~~K Asa S' Y,~r~ ~ j a _t; r ~, ;# ~`~ ~` s x. ~ ~G~ 4 yy'~~~ t , yc~YY~ SC ~4 y` ~~. ~~ S} ~ °;~ ~^ ~ u: , ' ~ .i,-4 u~~~ ~ 5 ,. 3~~ ~ .`~"'~ ~Tl yc '` ~~, ~~ ~4Er `e ~.. f1~M 4' r ~ JJ~ ~~ {~H Vr ' ~ yy ~~ ~'t . i2~r~h ~~ ys N~ b a ..~ '. Meridian Planning & Zoning ~" = December 5, 2002 ,, Page 26 of 74 Zaremba: Second. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? ~~ MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Zaremba: I read through the materials. I came prepared to be dead set against this. '~""°r Mrs. Bowcutt has put together in apparently what was only two weeks a tremendous a ~~';;. ~~ presentation and I could easily be swayed to flip. I can see the logic and I'm generally against giving up Meridian area of impact for any use, but I can see the logic for this one '~~~~ and I could be convinced. Centers: Mr. Chairman, I felt the same way and, actually, now I'm on the fence here ' and as Mrs. Bowcutt stated, she wants our support. The final decision is by the Council. I think that's going to be a hard, hard sell for the Council to release these 75 acres. 4~. Whether we support it or deny it, the big sell is to the Council and she knows that. I ~~ think she's going to go right home or tomorrow morning get a hold of that engineer and get it in writing that the sewer cannot be serviced to this property and presented to the '~~"^ City Council am I right or wrong? That's the ammunition, because if we can't provide service, we should release it, whether they want to put sewer -- or septic tanks and ~< wells, but if we can't provide service within ten years, we should release it. Isn't that the way it reads, '10 years? Yet, I think that's the hard sell to the City Council, too. You're going to have one little acre there right surrounded and landlocked two or four whatever r `;a but landlocked by Boise and Meridian and they are sitting in that county, so I -- Borup: We have that right now. Centers: Yes in the middle of town. Yes. My big thing is I hate to see property sit, I ~~~ hate to see people that want to sell it to developers not be able to. I think -- I don't want 9 ~~.~ ~~'< to use an adjective here, but I think that's wrong. I think they should be able to develop it if services are available. Now, if the City of Meridian can provide services and say >r: ~4 that we will be there -- but, then, how can we say we are going to be annexing that in ~;- one, two, three, four, five years? I don't know. As I said, I think the hard sell is to the `~t~' Council. I would tend to a ree with Commissioner Zaremba, I had no feelin s before I '~:n 9 9 came to the hearing. I read the entire notes. The only problem I had was Mr. Mittleider being included and he wasn't, so that was revised. h Borup: Yes. ~" Centers: So I uess I would tend to su g pport the application. y: ~~,~; Borup: Any other comments? -:; Mathes: What happens to the little island? Does it just stay in the county? `. ~> ~ ~- v a ~ ~-~~ ~~ y .: ' ~f"~, iu"r ~~ ,~,> fi ~~ t ~~ E ~~.if ~~^~ . ~ ~' ~ ~^! .,~ ~~ ~4~t`4}rr9,.. K ~~ 6 S fl, r.ai < ti iy *~n~l~ ,., ~ : t, ~~' ~`K- - rk~; +,~~ r~ ' ~{.- -. 4 ~ . .{ t rbrtl 1~ TZ'~'Y y1 -~ t ` V:: ~'. - ~. T...Y Y4 j a } ~ yh ~ ~~~~,~,~ _~ a ~ ~ ~,~= _ ~~r. T~ ~~: ~~. ~-s . ~'~1~,~`'~' 1;yt~ ~ ~; ~!~~j/ 4 ~~! ~~„" Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 27 of 74 Borup: Until it's either -- under five acres, it could be forced annexation, but it wouldn't be to Meridian, though. Centers: They can apply, though, can't they, Mr. Chairman? Zaremba: As I understand the process, even if we -- Borup: No, not to Meridian, to Boise. Zaremba: If we recommend approval of this change to the City Council and the City Council subsequently approves the change, then, under the auspices of the Ada County Commissioners, Boise and Meridian sit down and work out what the line is going to be and they would make that decision, I would assume. Is that correct? Siddoway: It would be the line that's being talked about. The problem is that that area, ;r unlike the holes in our city limits that are cun-ently Ada County, which I think Chairman ~.', Borup were referring to. This would be --this is different. This is the City of Boise in the :_'~;~ middle of -- well, what would be the City of Meridian, but there would be no way to get city services there. I would say you could not, you know, take this area out without also ~;" ; taking those out. Borup: Yes. That's just logical. It would be an island in Boise, not Meridian, it would stay county and it would make sense to take it out at the same time. Mathes: So what happens if they don't want to go? Borup: Then they stay in the county. Centers: Yes but, understand, it's -- excuse me. All you're doing is taking them out of the air of impact. You're not putting them in one city or the other. Mathes: They could stay in the county forever right? Centers: Exactly. Borup: No. Not necessarily. Boise could force -- Centers: Right. r, _V , Y'-., 4': `,~ Borup: I came with the same -- kind of the same thoughts that Commissioner Zaremba and probably the one biggest fact to me is the sewerability. I mean they are looking at 10,000 -- I mean it could be 10,000 dollars an acre just to bring sewer into the property, which does not seem real feasible. Running the parallel trunk line down Ustick to a Boise Trunk doesn't seem to make a lot of sense either. Then an annexation path and a right of way for the sewer are also in question. A,` ~ •, ~,•.~ ~ ht}: ~. 1 }. C f ~~ ~ ~~l - k ~~~ ~ ~~- jl,h.~yrxx~t 1. ~r [~.Y( i ?~ ' ~' r~E ~ 2 ~+ ~~~ .' .~ • 3F t .. .~~, ~31,.w A_:.. l~ v'b?.; i,`~y.~}F~.,~ ~ ~ ., ~~ t :. ~~ ~ ~`.. I:Y,~ k~zs ~. iW ~~~ ..~`~'v4f~ Z ? 7 ~ ~ ~, annu0.7~^~~. •. ~ c ynu.~,..r ! ~ F~€~~x'+ i ~~~ x ~r" 'r:( Z ~~ =c a,. c 1 ~. '~ g ~ k s k~ ~s ~ • - Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 28 of 74 =,w~ Centers: Well, I don't know if this is true or not, but an ex-P&Z Commissioner here in the City of Meridian that had been on the Commission for some time, quoted to me that ~`~ with a 1,400 square foot home, the City of Meridian broke even after providing services F~,, ~-~~ and the receipt of the taxes, with a 1,400 square foot home at that time. That was ,, '~ probably 10 years ago. I think Mrs. Bowcutt makes a good point, tax revenue from ,, residential properties doesn't make the city rich, after they provide services, so -- and I ~'~'t guess the other comment, political, that's a big part of it, too. Anyway -- Borup: I think somebody's City Council is going to have to really hash it out. f<~ Zaremba: Well, the two choices would be to forward this to the City Council and I'm ~., `~` ~ inclined to do so, you know -- well, the other option is to continue it until we hear the ~: evidence of the engineering studies. I'm more inclined to move it ahead and at this point I'm in favor of approval. ~' ~ _ Centers: I thought of that, too. You know, I hate to bring back your study, but then the ~,,: study really is more applicable to City Council ~: F _. ' Zaremba: They are the final word. ~~, =''J` Centers: So let's move on. _- Zaremba: Have we closed the Public Hearing? 3 4~ '` Borup: Yes. ;~. Zaremba: Okay. Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the request to remove certain parcels in -- this is MI 02-011, that we forward to the City Council recommending approval of the request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from ~I ~~>~~ City of Meridian's impact area for Packard Estates Development, LLC, by Packard Estates Development, LLC, south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale k : Road. ,.. Centers: Second. ~~, { ;. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? '~ Rohm: Naye. =~` Borup: Okay. Three in favor, one opposed. Thank you. ~;4j; MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE NAYE. ;; Item 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two to ten years, staffed by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles `n Sneezes Care ~.v : F` . ~,= ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ . ~,. ' t't ;~; 3,~r ~'~ a. .. .x~ ~~ F s, t q v '~ ~ fi aa F~ r 1 q. y'~ ~ ' l ~r ~ ;. ~ ~~ ~ ~'° `~ ;4' . :. s - ~ ~- _ ~a i r t't ~ ~QY~ y a _ t~y..~* ~~ts~ d ~ ry~ ~. ~ A+..r H,~ ~` ~~, ~~,„~i " ~~y ~ ~~ ~~ ,~y ~ > -,.. ~~: , ~~",. w r ;,`~. ~~ ~~~;,, n'c~at D ^ nst; f~~~',rf Y ~. YZ _ ~~ - ~~ ~ i ~~ ~~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 29 of 74 ~~` Center by JC Anderson, Co. - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 `~~`~r East 2nd Street: '~r~ Borup: Move onto our next item. Public Hearing CUP 02-039, request for Conditional t{~ Use Permit for a care center for up to 30 mildly ill children ages two to ten for the Y::. ~'~.~ Sniffles 'n Sneezes Care Center by JC Anderson Company at 217 East Pine Avenue, and 834 East 2nd Street. Open this Public Hearing and start with the staff report. °~ Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This application is %; `; for the Sniffles and Sneezes Care Center, which is a day care for children who are too ill ~„; to attend their regular day care and for parents who still need go to work. It is supposed to be staffed by a nurse and primary care givers that are intended to be nursing -~ assistants. They are requesting permission to care for up to 30 children between the ages of two and ten years of age. You should have a staff report, dated November 19~", on the subject property. This is a close-up of the subject property from an aerial photo. 1` There is an existing building apparently in use. Pine Street would be on the north and ~,~~~ ~~=~ '- 2nd Street on the west. Surrounding uses would include existing church United Methodist Church on the east of the property and south is the Masonic lodge. To the {-~ north and west across the streets are existing residential uses. These are some photos `~` of that existing building on the site today. These are from the rear of the property where P~' the parking lot exists and this is their site plan. We have five site-specific requirements _,; ~ similar to the ones that you saw for the previous Old Town application and we do _ recommend approval of this -- of this project with the conditions in staff report. With that, I will stand for any questions. ;;. ;. ~w. ~~; Borup: Questions from any of the Commissioners? Is the applicant here and wish to =t`` add anything to the presentation? ''~} ~ Anderson: Jared Anderson, 623 East Woodbury Drive, Meridian. Mr. Chairman, Commission, we agree with all the site-specific requirements and I don't have any further presentation and would stand for questions. ;~ ~_- Borup: Questions from the Commission? Centers: I have one, Mr. Chairman. In the staff report the children in this day care will z,, ,. ~~``~ not require a need for an outdoor play area and there is not one proposed. They never go out? Anderson: These are mildly ill kids. ~ Centers: Yes. I read that. Anderson: They will be having low activity and cared for by nurses and nursing ~r,~ assistants. They won't go outside the building during the time that they are there. Centers: I guess it's totally fenced or will be? - ~. ,~ ,, r . }:~~ -.~ '~~ ,z 1~ 'Yp _ S rni i - `~ ~~ ~ ;::t`„ ~y ~~.= ~' M1 ia,r P: ?~s'~'t~r ;. ~'+9yi ~ -.. x. .:.~,~ ~, /~1~`v r .,~ ~:}: ~. .,, ~, r~ `~ `~~~ _ 3~~ ~~ w ~ ~ ~ ~~,, .,~.+.r '.8".X Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 30 of 74 : ~_ ~qqs. ~yp`i, °~: "3:,a:' ,r>-:~, >, h Anderson: No. There will be -- Centers: So you're not going to provide for a fence, because you're not going to let them outside? Anderson: Yes. That's correct. Centers: Okay. Borup: So any play area would be inside the building? Anderson: Yes. Centers: Okay. Zaremba: I have a question about your hours of operation and I guess my question is whether or not you're being generous enough with yourself, if you're dealing with parents who perhaps work in Boise downtown someplace. Anderson: That's 7:30 to 5:30. Zaremba: 7:30 to 5:30. Are you going to have to be extended for somebody that's on the freeway still at 5:30 and not getting there? Anderson: That is possible. We have already talked with some employers that would want us to open up at 7:00 so it's going to depend on demand. Zaremba: Stay open until like 6:00? Anderson: Yes 7:00 to 6:00. One of the employers in east Boise brought that up. Zaremba: While you're there, let me ask staff a question, if I can. Are the hours of operation, as the applicant has stated them, do they become part of the Conditional Use Permit? Siddoway: They can if it's part of your motion. Zaremba: And they would be restricted to those? Siddoway: We have restricted hours of operation through Conditional Use Permits before. Zaremba: With the surrounding uses, is there any need to do that or should we let them pick whatever hours they need? A? f l ~f ~~ t, ~?: Meridian Planning & Zoning ~-°~ December 5, 2002 Page 31 of 74 Siddoway: Certainly a 24-hour thing would not be appropriate at the location. I don't think that it would ever turn into that. If it went a little before 7:00 and a little after 6:00, is that a problem? I don't think so. -;-~ Zaremba: Okay as long as we don't stipulate it in the CUP. Siddoway: Right. If you put a condition for a specific restriction on the hours of :A~~~ operation, they would be limited to that, so you need to make sure there is enough ~' flexibility in whatever motion you would have or just -- ~`'_~~ Zaremba: The CUP is actually okay without such a restriction? Siddoway: It is okay without a restriction. <-,, Zaremba: Okay. Centers: There is no residential, I didn't see, near it? ='~-'~ Siddoway: There is residential. I'll go back to those site photos where I was showing the -- this is the subject property. The property across the street, across 2nd Street, is ;3 residential, and the property across Pine Street is residential but the ones that are abutting the parcel that share a lot line with it are not. `"' , Centers: Okay. y^tY,': Borup: Okay any other questions? Zaremba: If we did add to the CUP a restriction that your operating hours should be °~ 6:00 A.M. to 8:00 P.M., that doesn't mean you have to be open all those hours, but °;; would that give you a sufficient leeway? Anderson: Yes. 6:00 A.M. to 8:00 P.M. is -- Zaremba: 6:00 A.M. to 8:00 P.M. is -- ;' a ` ': ~:5 s- ;:' ~ .: R ~: i ~~ tr+ ..-- ~'-` -;; Anderson: Would be more than we want. Zaremba: Okay. All right. Borup: Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify on this application? We had no one sign upon the -- no other testimony, Commissioners. Rohm: I move we close the Public Hearing on this issue. Zaremba: Second. ,,, -... j 3. _ ~ a 1C )r ~ F~~q t ~- 1 ., ] f ~ ~'; . X11 4 K ~+ xx ~. ~~ pp ~r:.~ ~f."~ J ~, rd tY: ,.; N ~' ~~.. ~ ~ 'F ~.a f - t~4°19~'~ti x '~ ~ fJ..M.i~' ~ '~ .f ^-y~ ~ - - ) LR >S -t h ~F ` "'' ' ~ . s p a ?~, a~,r; ;,* ,~, ~~ „ ~; ~ %u` ,y_~ ;}. ~'~'41f''~, F; ~ `c, s ~~ ! r ~ ~ ;p ~. ..3~M ~ st ~• F,~(. ~ • L G fir' _ C ~~ ~~~ ~•~ r i~' t ' ` ~~ ~ 4 ~ Y __. ~~~~' 1 4 4~ ~ ¢:"~~ ~r ~ S'y?: r C ~ ` .., ~ , _ 'y I ~~Lrk1'KS >,,y L ' ~~cc ~+ L~:,.. yj,yi4 i' ,fi "r~C, '~' '+.:_ ~,r ,r v ~, Meridian Planning & Zoning _ a ~ ` December 5, 2002 Page 32 of 74 Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? x'~" ~ MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES 5~: Zaremba: Mr. Chairman? vk A:~~~ Borup: Commissioner. Zaremba: I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of CUP 02- 039, request for Conditional Use Permit for a care center for up to 30 mildly ill children ages two to ten years. Staffed by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffle 'n ~~~ Sneezes Care Center by JC Anderson Company, 217 East Pine Avenue, and a portion ._.. of 834 East 2"d Street. To include all staff comments, with the additional requirement that their hours of operation be 6:00 A.M. to 8:00 P.M. or less at their choosing. y~ ,;° Rohm: I will second that. ~.<,:; ~ Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. T `'~:~ MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES ~: ; . ~~` Item 8. Public Hearing: RZ 02-006 Request for a Rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L '~~ to O-T zones for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue: Item 9. Public Hearing: CUP 02-037 Request for a Conditional Use Permit fora ~.fi;`'~ two classroom center serving young children and families, and a 400 ~,+ ,~ square foot community meeting room for Meridian Head Start by Friends ~~; ~~-: of Children and Families, Inc. - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue ~,`,; Borup: The next item -- the next two items, actually, on our agenda, Public Hearing RZ 02-006, request for a rezone of .85 acres from I-L to O-T zones for Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Incorporated, at 321 and 333 West Broadway. - Accompanying that is CUP 02-037, request for Conditional Use Permit for atwo- ~ ; classroom center serving young children, families, and a community meeting room for "~' , the Head Start at the same location. At this time I'd like to open both these public ~r hearings and start with the staff report. ,: y'F ~ ~"- Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The proposed ~, Head Start project is on West Broadway Avenue on the south side, currently zoned I-L, but in an area that the Comprehensive Plan now designates as Old Town. The ~~~, requested rezone would rezone this parcel from light industrial to Old Town and that ~~ ~~` would be in compliance with the City's Comprehensive Plan. The west side of this parcel you will see there is 15 feet of unimproved or unopened right of way, I guess, is the correct term. The applicant currently is in negotiations with ACRD to vacate that. ~~ ~' r; ACHD does not see a need to ever develop that right of way, as it abuts the Union ~, r? ~ h: i, ~_ -~_~ ~~. i~ry ~`4w r:^ 3 C ~l~ s ~ b. e 7x+ a ~~ f. ~ ~` . ~~ N `~ ~ rd ~. . < ~~- ~'~ ~'v' ~~' r b''~ < ~ ~~~~, ~;~ ~~ ~ F ~ €~~ r ~, ~~ 4 : - ~ ~ ~d ifv~ ~{.~ d ~%n s =~y' ~, y ~ ~ ' "~.la'~' ~.. r{i~ ; - 'P j :t'St" `ll a ~ s 4~ .= , r ~'. ~ w: f „ rr ., ~? r ~' '~;. • ~,- ~ S t s 1 ~ ~ 'Sri , ~a ~ ,,. ~. ,, ;~,~ • ~~ ;~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ : ~ . _} ,_ ~~- .} ~" , ~_~ _ ~: k r ~ ~~; .... ~ v, ~„ ~A.-.N..~~., .. ~/~' ~4 [rc Vr. t~T,L rn ~ ,. ~~ ~x~~ • ~-~ ~- : t-.~, x:,~, 4' ~=~ i` ` ~~.;:. e~~ .. Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 33 of 74 Pacific Railroad here and they have no ability to cross the railroad. A condition of approval of this application would be to carry that vacation through. You should have a staff report on this project dated November 20~'. This is the existing site photo. The -- this being Broadway, there is an existing couple of older houses that would be demolished and replaced with a new building, which you should have elevations of in your packets. Some existing site photos of those existing structures and their proposed site plan. On this -- on this plan Broadway would be running here. I guess that's it. Well, you know, we have the wrong plan up there. There has been a new plan submitted, which looks pretty much identical to this, except flipped 180 degrees, so that the driveway is now on this side of the building, so if you just -- Borup: That's what we have. Siddoway: Okay. That's what you should have, the one that -- this is the older site plan, which I apologize for. Let's see. The only condition of approval we have on the rezone is metes and bounds legal description is needed. It is underway. I have spoken with the surveyor that's working on that. For the standards for Conditional Uses, on Page 4 of the staff report, it talks about landscaping. Again, a strict reading of the Landscape Ordinance would require a buffer between land uses for this parcel and the existing residential uses, even though they are zoned light industrial currently. They are residences in use on each side today and there would -- there would technically be a requirement for abuffer -- a landscape buffer between land uses on both sides. This is -- this property is narrow and cannot accommodate 20-foot landscape buffers on each side. We have the ability to remedy that through the altemative compliance portion of the Landscape Ordinance. The applicant is requesting that they be allowed to do a six foot buffer on the west side and an eight foot buffer on the east side, so it's not -- they are not proposing to do nothing. We do support that, but we raise that to the Commission for their consideration, as their proposed alternative compliance. We do find that the site is large enough for all the other required features, however, such as the required number of parking spaces, open space, yards, street improvements that are required, et cetera, are all able to be accommodated on the site. Under additional considerations on Page 6, there is a sanitary sewer easement issue where the Public Works Department would like to work with the applicant to abandon existing sewer main and extend two service lines. The applicant has agreed to that. I don't know that it's an issue. If you need more details, I will stick Bruce on it. One of the conditions of approval is along the south property line. The Rutledge Lateral runs along there. There is a standard requirement to the that ditch. It's Site-Specific Requirement 2 on Page 7 of the staff report. I believe that the applicant is going to be requesting a waiver of that to Council, so I simply raise that for discussion. Staff does recommend approval of this project, with that special consideration for abandoning the existing sanitary service -- sanitary sewer service line and providing for any new easements associated with the knew one. You should have received several letters in support of this project as well, so I just draw your attention to those for the record and make sure that those are considered and I'll stand for any questions. Borup: Any questions from the Commission? if - - -:Y ~ c 1 ~ ` L~ ~ 7~i ~r' ~ x.u < h. s ' ~ ~i'7;~4~G' 're + ~~ ~s ~~'`~+I~~t _: ~~ tc ~~,sk r~ z, j'. ,,a,3,}.•: f - •`` '~iGtkx~'~~~X~t l~S~~p -~ ~.~..i f ~ ;.. s ~r~~si, ,ti,:;LJ~'~ ~~ .. -_ Y11k o ~ ~. 1 i -rt fi y rr' .~ ~ J`f s ~~i 'f~'Y ~ ~n ?t i, ~ r7W +f jI+FL 3 ~~~ ~ 1 ~~~ t ~~ ~ S'~S }M H 1 ~~ 41' ~.. - ;~$ [~ 4jf,~Y~}Ifr1L: ~ ; S~l"t. S'i ]„")}~~~~~~i'Tf l`A.~ C' 1 -1 ll C 4 l * J"~. ~ ~_ t r -~ i - ~ F f y.... iF ~• R fw t.T ..I. ,._ y =,[+d- '~rry dpi` 1 ,~ S'~ ~r ja r r ~+. 1r~• fit- ~{'' '~.'3 ~ l ~r rvi `~ a3~ .Y~ ~ Uri-5 ~ ~- h~. ~~t4 '-+ ~T ~w Yn F ~ 1 ~~1~ ~~~ ~~x ~~ ~ - ; N .~,s~ aS y u:~?<~~ _ r~ ~ p Jc.t, ~ r ~ •.,`• t . ~..Ge. ~~~~ o . ~ - .. - T .~y ~.RJ.~.~ to 1 ~ - _. ~'Y ~ ;`~ N 5. .j k ~.~ i r. a: r-. 1 ,- T ~~ 1.4.5. y l Rl ~ 4 _~~. r.~ ~~~f 'pa ~~'~ ~ 'N'a:p ! :] { '44 rk: ~. ~ 4C:ti5k~l~r'v ~f .ii A,.S.C hS.~ ~ 1 ~~ ~ F ~ haF ~ '~Y , ~ p ,'. f h'x I~ !, ~ ~ f~ ~"' ~ ~ t f+y ~ ~~~ , ~ h wF ~F ~~ ^--- ~' } F i f *.~~ 4 f~i f f. '.v.'AC'G '13 ~~•.~1'" F.,i~3~~' 1 ~~ ~ r~~ ~r~~a F. . M i.. 7 ~ ~ ~. . ti S~ y iS ~ i ` ~ t ~~,1 7~ }~'.,~ zl r :r jj~~ T 1 ~~ ~(' ~~ ~~1cc~`} d ,?p~~T` }ptyr(~,, ~{~{~~,~. L.~ +P'~'i }Y`~~ ' ~t+'K~ {' "j•~i ~' " ; . TiS 4.~ R f Y.<< ,~ aFn.~w ~,•. -M~ 4 7' ~~ ff , ~~~ ~• -, , . • Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 34 of 74 Centers: Yes. Mr. Chairman, the tiling of the ditch that you referred to briefly, Steve, is that the same canal that the Police Department refers to when it says caution, southside fence is the only barrier to the canals that are adjacent to the property? Siddoway: Yes. ;,~~ Centers: Okay so tiling it would eliminate the Police Department's -- - Siddoway: It would eliminate one of the two. There is two ditches there -- _~~~,. Centers: So we eliminate his caution and his worry? Siddoway: No. We eliminate one of the two ditches that are there because there are ~;1„-, two they are only required to the the Rutledge. The Nine Mile Creek also runs along ,:'; there, it's bigger than the Rutledge, and would not be tiled, because it's a natural u~ waterway. >~~~` Centers: Is it fenced? -`, ' Siddoway: The existing --there is an existing fence, I believe. "=1.. Centers: Okay. Siddoway: We can talk to the applicant about it when they -- ~'~~ ° Borup: The plat, obviously, shows a new fence. Siddoway: Yes. Zaremba: Well -- and that was a question I was going to ask. Mr. Landry's letter ~~ describes a solution that would not the either one of them, but to put a fence a little farther in on their property line, 50 feet from -- from 50 feet from the drain or the lateral, ~,~;;`.~ that would keep children contained and away from that and then not the it, which, of `F;r, course, the Comprehensive Plan is in favor of not tiling any open -- ~~~~ Siddoway: Where we have natural waterways, that's true. y:~:--~ ~:- Zaremba: Is not tiling an acceptable solution or are we saying they must the it? Siddoway: You know, to my thinking it is acceptable. We do have the letter of the ordinance that says, you know, shall be tiled and, you know, any waiver of that has to be requested by the City Council, so that's my two bits. Zaremba: Okay. ;, - ~~~~':F ;':rarr ~. a~ ~. ~ • ,.; Meridian Planning & Zoning • December 5, 2002 Page 35 of 74 '~ • "'' Borup: And my thought on that, I guess, could be a factor, is whether the ditch runs through the property or borders the property, and could make a difference on how that's treated. There is a difference. ~~~~~~`; Siddoway: There isn't a difference in the ordinance. .j ~i'' t Borup: No. No but in my mind there is a difference how it affects the property, is what I mean. ' • Zaremba: So would they be willing to give up a space in the easement to put up a ~~~ fence -- '~-x'r ~;w' Siddoway: There is an easement. Yes, I'm sure they would be willing to do that. Zaremba: I think that's what they are suggesting. ',"~'.`., Siddoway: Yes. I will let the applicant address that, then. r~~_ ~~; Zaremba: Let me, if I may, ask a question about Mr. James Cain's letter also and what effect this project would have on the neighbors. One of his concerns is that this might `~='~' create a school zone and limit his ability sometime later to develop a business that ~:_~, might sell liquor. Does this create a school zone? f~', Siddoway: It probably would restrict liquor sales. Yes. Borup: Point Number 2 that was his Point Number 1, to make sure that it doesn't ~' change the industrial character. His Point Number 2 is whether or not he might make future commercial use of his property for future alcohol sales in a school zone, which ,~,,~ would have a right to object to that so his concern there is justified. Siddoway: Yes for liquor. He does not take away any existing rights based on zoning. _Y.~ It's currently zoned I-L. It does not affect any rights that are -- those properties currently `~,' have, under the-- Zaremba: So he is not currently using his property in that fashion, so -- ~~~ , Siddoway: I'm assuming not. Centers: But that's designated Old Town in the Comp Plan, all of that. '`':~ Siddoway: From this parcel heading east it's Old Town in the Comp Plan. Centers: Right. Borup: But the parcel on the west side is I-L is that correct? 4, :~~ ~ ~' <~ ~ •~ > ~; x ~f ~' 1 ~ 4 ~ -.~R. F ~, ~~v r. ~ ~ ~,~.;_ ~_,~_~~~ S.7 ~ ~~+ 2, »~ .{,) ri ~ ~ ~ ~sS ~1' { r-~. ~'t ~~~ ~ RFf ~ Y::"`y Y~ M! -;i i~ ~~iF A ~•. i. F ny~~~~ A l~ ^~~ . a ~'~ ,~, ~~ ; s.: ~~ ~ ~ .., x ~~~ ~ti;~° •'~x ;'~ . i'~ S 4 a "~-.- ~t ~ ~~~x a • - Meridian Planning & Zoning "~'}"~~ December 5, 2002 °~ Page 36 of 74 __~~ Siddoway: It is zoned I-L. The Comp Plan shows medium density residential. Borup: So when you're talking about the buffer reduction, what's the stipulated buffer `~ between O-T and I-L? ~;~_` Siddoway: It's based on use, not on zoning. Borup: Okay. Okay. The present use is residential? Siddoway: Right. If the joint property did develop industrial under its current zoning, they would actually be required to put in a buffer on their property, because it would be rM,~ amore intense use next to a school. ~:~:r, Borup: Okay. Siddoway: But it would be even more if it were a residence. - Wollen: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, unfortunately, I didn't bring my ;~:~ volume of the Idaho Code that has that the provisions on restrictions of sales of alcohol in a school zone or school type environment, but from memory I do believe that, Number 1, this would qualify within that section. Number 2, the rights of a property that wishes to sell alcohol would not vest until that property does -- there is the sale of - alcohol on that property as far as grandfathering that property in. That's just from s ~` memory, though. ',c` Siddoway: Mr. Chairman, I believe Nick is right. I also am going from memory, but I ' believe the distance is 200 feet. Wollen: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I can't recall exactly what the distance is either, but that does sound in the ballpark. Siddoway: There is a provision I think we are all aware. Centers: Three hundred for a church. I remember that. Siddoway: Okay. It might be 300 feet. Centers: It might be 300 feet. Siddoway: Okay 300 feet probably is -- ;~;~ Centers: Do you remember that hearing? `'' ' Borup: Okay any other questions from the Commission? Does the applicant have a ~~_ presentation they'd like to make? ~, ~~.,.. l4~.~~~5 X .~~ r4~, ~r U ,` .3 ` - Y s'.. 'hF fi. 4.} i +'. ~c rs s c^~y ~~ g,. ~ ~„w l,~ ~y~,{ ~~ ~ _A~~ ~- ~ r~ r.,y r,. +~,} ~ ~, r~ { , rf~~{ - ~4~ s 3!t'rt ~ .p wd + } l.' ` pxx~~''i~y~ S ry ,~~ ~ F Y 3 ~'S' L^~ , _ 1..~ ~~ ~~~p _ ~:~= yr, ,~;_ •T~5 ~ ~ ~, v: ~fek?pti~l ~ i .5 t.. W $~~ ~~+- i 'iYS j i ~~ ~=~ ~ ~~ F~ l~hcv tla ~~~ ` ~; F r T ~ ~ ~ ,~ °~ ~~ :~~~ r.~ ~~~ . _. ~~ ; @„~., M k ~F ~~.. S 1 4 . ~, .,,u h ' t ~~:,~, t~ ~ . t .y ~. ~ ~~ i ro, ~_ .:~~~ _ .~ ~. ~ A Y r : ~ r a , z s SV- ~ ~.l~T a,~~ # ~F ~~ 5 t N-~ ti 4 J 4i S J 3~~ ~' ~; S 'F~ ,~ ~ ~ ` y ~~ ~.dz ~ 1~~ it _ . -~p +n ~ ;4 et ;~ r ~~ a-. ~. ~ ~~~<:~~ .~. ~xn a ., ~F^ t~y~ ~, f ~ ~~ ~ 4 ~ ] ~~ _ '~#s C t. {-~ ,~ ., =xt .. _ h 3 t~ ,.~ ~. ~ w ax . e 1 rk t {~ ~~- ~: ~ '~~~ f ~ ~ K T ~ t . ,F F~xl ~. _ , ;~: ..~ tiF . ~~ .. ,, ~. ~~ , ~~ ' , y+° { .. s.'~Y. `.. _ ~ ~ ~~~ ~5 ~ m~{~ W , ° f ~ ~ o- ! ~' ~ tt ~ ~ r ` -~ ~~~ :~ '`' "'` d ~+~f ~ `~~i .. k, -! ~ro of .,. . s ~ r~ ~ ' r ~~ ~' { ~ji1 _ }>, a s Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 37 of 74 Landry: My name is Louis Landry and I am the Co-Director of Friends of Children and Families located at 4709 West Camas in Boise, that's our office. We are a nonprofit program that has been providing the Head Start services in Ada and Elmore County for over a decade. We'd just like, just for the Commission, again, we thank you for the opportunity to be here and the excellent staff work and cooperation we have had throughout the process. We have been providing services to children from Meridian for years. We used to be in -- located in various churches in Meridian and had to move when churches needed the space back. When we were able to inquire the property in Boise, very much like this one that is in a neighborhood on Camas children from Meridian were served and are served today in our site by being bussed to Boise. We have had several parents discouraged from services, because they don't want their children, four year olds, bussed that length of time with increased traffic. It really is a problem. We sought, based on our analysis of the data we had, and met with the Mayor and with members of the City Council Tammy de Weerd about the needs in the community and there is a substantial need to serve -- and our services are for low- income families in the Meridian area. Based on that we were able to get expansion to operate the program so we have -- the operational funds are there. One other significant thing I think to just mention in terms of the cooperation of many entities in the state to make this possible, this project will be funded through a tax exempt bond issue to the Idaho Housing and Finance Association and we will be able to borrow money at three -- at 3.75 percent interest. It's -- I think we have been good stewards of the funds and as taxpayers, I think you should know about that. What we are planning to do is build a really remarkably beautiful facility that will also be, I think, very neighborhood friendly. On November the 30th, Saturday night past, the senior center was very good to us and let us use their facility, because it's just two blocks away. We hosted a neighborhood meeting and 14 of our neighbors, many of whom are here tonight, some of whom have written letters in support and we had an excellent neighborhood meeting where they asked many good, high quality questions about the safety of children and how we will fit in the neighborhood. How we can be neighbors and that went particularly well. We'd love to be here and we work with you. We have got a lot of work and all of these issues -- and, certainly, one obvious one is in terms of the protection of children, there will be a fence all the way around and we will have a playground, that's a key part of our world is to be outside with the children. There will be a playground enclosed in the fence and I don't have in mind the number of feet, but it's a long distance between that fence and the next fence that goes to the canal. Our children are four years of age and they are always supervised on the playground, there are always two teachers out all the time with the children. These are highly supervised situations. In terms of the property line, I have walked the property with a certified arborist, the property has several 100-year-old trees, and we have a plan to keep those trees. They would be key buffers on both sides of the property and that was one of the reasons where the sewer easement issue came up in that the current sewer line that I understand has very little utilization at this point. I think one or two properties are on it, and I think your analysis is that it has even some problems right now with structural integrity, that runs right along the property line where these big trees are and so neither the city, nor we would desire, nor our neighbors, to destroy any of those trees. What we would like to do is work out with you all that during the construction phase we could work it out so that you could p~~~ ~ ~ ~,,, -,r x Fr,:~µ.b'~rr ~•l~a ?wn~~kl~'+r9'~4~~' I #Frr^ rr n - y ''~-; ~r,~ 1 ;`a« r . r, ' k" ti '~~.3~~ _ ; K8~ r~l~ ~~. ~i..~~r ` F `,,s i. !iK c ~ >,+., t r ,~}gx 0 i;: y,,.7 yy~~ w .~ -! i+t.. ky- c:~~: }a. ; L' s 1CC. S~F ~5. r ~~~a'tr ~+('- 't d ,~~f~~'~'~ ~~;Z ~~~~.€~, ~iygr~d i.~i~pr,~i fi ~.±a"~} ft ~y;~i.~~~f r ;~ tr r y r { r ~'1~ ''~yh5"7~~ 7i~~ 4 z' :.~(~yy.,~'• ~~ ~.~~ s ,;:i .. ,I•C} { # ? L i ~~i s / ~~~ 1~~19771 `3''l'[ri F;.s ~. ~r x. ti~~e Crti ~~ ~~t ~C cz ~ . t Y'f k ~ ~'S ~+ k~~~p~ !s3'~ «+ 1> . 4 i:i4 ~ a~~ -. a,.y ~r ,r. .. ~?'rte r N ` ^ . i ~ 3.. ~ ~ ~ k ti~.:1 -c~F ~ ~~ ~~ .:tz•~~k~# rpvk,,~~" C~'~ti ? r i ~~,;, x~~~~ ''~~~a , t~ ~ xr , J. rl _ r p.,~ ~ i + s - d t +; j ,,~t fix. ~ ~~.,, .,1,ff "Jiry~r r+;'~# i y~.. +.,~~~~~`~~5~~.~1~'~>< ~'~.; «'~=k ~~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~ y~i 7F~5~. ~3 M, . ~ r~ ~s, f ~ F ~t,'S:t'r.`~,o $,~F.y~?, } a1`~ a ~. y'!1'T~,~a ,~ ~t ~ ~i~ +Qa ,'?~, n i ~r ' ft'~ r g; ~: -. '. z ~~ ~Y;` ~ 't i Y~ i 'R?9,J A t?4I; 1. ~ ~k 7'> ~ {f5 , ~y ~ ;. 3R ~~~ ~ 3~ .y • ;;i. Y. ...~ ]. ~ v~ f < S Y"S.r 'f i" Ya .MU iii - 'p;'. ~ .J.. 't' ~ ~ M b Y•,'1 ~ " k -. ~ J 1 ..r.-a t E n l t ), ~t 1 ~ r ; ~~, ~,~ ,~~ ~3 ~~ , x; - -~ ~r , #~~ ,Cif l~ .~~~"e'"+yW",.~a~.;; .~~ r.t - -•~•• { -~ ,R^ ~ ~~ tf ~ l •3t-'•',M I 'e+tl6~s$, ,.±§~ry' R-~+~~a.~ La4l~'-'y~~J~'<~ ~~ ~S "7, `'"~ ~.C~".~ '{ ~.`(t f,' 1, -,',, ~1r'~.~` '„J Ate' C.~~"i i ~~?~~T ky~: .,T'` f ~~Y+4 ~i.E~'b J,' GS,_,! ,:. ~; ~ ^ 5 F ~'"`~~`.~. ~~ . i T~ ,5-.r~,'~ ys r ~'~ r~ i , TM fy~'`+ tXy'~' 1 ' ~= s9!, i ,~ ~., ,h- _ ,. ~ i:!i,a .`A ~`ib(~2ri~us~P?~>x~'' ~3d~+i~; ~3tZ~.F~'~'9:, YF5/.i~tA~..-;xs~illsSc~f' a ~r%"i-:, ~. .F._... ~;'4 - _ .. ~s ~. ~,.,.~, ~:,. _ ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning ~.v~'0't. • • :~ December 5, 2002 Page 38 of 74 have an easement right down that driveway and, therefore, be very serviceable and save trees. I must say that a few of the trees are old and diseased and will have to come out, just based on that, and so I wanted to allay your concerns about that. I don't ~'<: ~; know if there is anything -- I could go on and on and it's a long night, you have other y,' folks here, and I will stand for questions. You all have patience and I admire your work, ~_~ that you can do this. ~;~-~ ~ Centers: I have -- it's just curiosity. I had heard about the loan from the IHFA. It's nonprofit. Do you rely on grants and donations to pay back that loan? ~ ~~ ~~ ° . Landry: Well, thank you. Several sources and, by the way -- by and by, this is a large ~n ~ l', package. We are also building a facility in Garden City on city property, in a city park, ~.: ~,,; and we have three facilities, one in Boise, one in Glenns Ferry, and one in Mountain x ` Home. The three that currently exist are eight percent money, so we are refinancing as ~'''=' art of this. To a back in our o er g p y ~ -, p p y p ational funds, we et monies to a back on the ~ w ~~ mortgage so we are able to use operational funds to pay at least -- or to pay back on ~~ - ::` the mortgage. That was provisions of federal code that were approved in 1992 and ~~ y; before that Head Starts couldn't use their money to buy, so they were always in church ~ ~' basements and various places like that and, you know, wonderfully generous, but we ~ moved a lot and some of the situations were less than ideal. Centers: Where does the operational money come from? ~~`~~`~ Landry: These are -- Head Start has been federally supported since 1965 and we have °'°` had great bipartisan support. In this project, we already have a grant from the Ada County Realtors for 7,500 dollars towards the playground. We have already secured those funds. In the Garden City project, I don't want to muddle it too much, but just to x~~ mention the Boise Funds has contributed funds towards that and donors come up. We '~` will over the -- we can pay for this and it is all -- all the finances are there, but we expect within the next five years that a generous donation may come in to help us pay off our ~'~.~~' mortgage. ,:~ Centers: Okay so you rely on donations and federal grants? Landry: Absolutely. Centers: Okay. Landry: Absolutely. Centers: Thank you. `;r~ Landry: Yes, sir. Borup: Any other questions ask? Thank you. .; ~~~~ a, ; a. r ,. ~ ;' ,C, jc n ~ ~' f ~ Z 4 ~ r ~. . ~F*' 'r `~ ~~ fi~~ ~'~!;, '~ ~ ">~ r,r ~ ~' i~H~ ,~~. ~ t - - ~j~,l• + t ~ ~~ .~. 3 ,~;~~~ .~. ~ .. n ;~it_Y i, m k~ ei ~.i ~F `efg;6 ,~ , ,~ ' ~~~ ~~-ssr ti fit, ,, ~~ r', . P; ak ~ ~' { y ~t : b,» ~ ~~, Z: ~.h ~ '2 a ~ ~ .1fn r .. ~ ~~ z r+a '~. ?t+ec ~~ • ~~~. ,•-; Meridian Planning & Zoning ~' • ' t December 5, 2002 Page 39 of 74 ~' - ' ~ ~~~ ' Zaremba: Not really a question, just a comment. I think this would be an excellent ¢~'~. ~~ t~~ ~ ' addition to the city and I understand that you already provide services to Meridian ~''~' -~ residents and it would be nice to have a facility right here. ~s. i .. r.L. -• .. sT ~ ~, ry. g A~ Land We like it in Meridian and we like it in that nei hborhood. Yes, sir. xR ~.r x~ .:, Zaremba: And it looks like we have in our packet quite a number of letters of support. - W ` ` Landry: Thank you so much. ~ t, ~r . ~ ~ ,, -' ~~'a • F ~ ' ~ t : - Borup: Okay. Do we have anyone else to testify? If so, come forward. ~~... i~ ~. x7 ~= Pew: My name is Randy Pew. I have property directly across from the proposed site. ~ r w~ '~ y~~ ~r = One of the questions Ihad -- } ~. x Borup: Go ahead and state your address. ~. ,~-~ s- t t* G ~A - .~'~ ~` Pew: My property address or my residence? .. ~. ,._ ~~ ~ fh=~ b-,: ` `~ : Borup: Your residence your residence. t~~~ r , F t ~•~~' ` ~ _ Pew: My property is a 330 West Broadway. My residence is 1329 West Washington in - ~~~ ~ ° ~ ~~ Meridian. ` ~ ~~ Borup: Okay. ,~ =1 `r~v~,x Pew: One of the things that I am not familiar with, not knowing City Code, is why the ~+L~r~'h R-r , ~ ~. switching -- or they want this rezoned from Light Industrial to Old Town. Is there a ~~ .1 .- : specific reason for that? ,,. . ~` `" Siddoway: Mr. Chairman I can answer that. Schools are prohibited in a Light Industrial ` '~ `° zone, but are a Conditional Use Permit in Old Town. ~' `~. ' ~,. •. ~>~ Y'= M • Pew: Thank you. One other -- well, a couple of concerns I have here, since they have developed the west end of Broadway into a subdivision, of course, traffic -- the traffic ~~ r° ~ has increased down Broadway considerably over -- since they opened up that end just ~~ { `` west of Broadway Manor, if I remember correctly. That's one concern I have there and ~.~~'~ I'm not familiar with the Comprehensive Plan. The other thing I -- the building at this <.~~~, juncture looks a little out of place for residential area and the surrounding buildings. I .~~'r ~~.~.,~~~~ know most of the buildings down there are probably 50 years or older from exclusions in ~~ , >~~ ~°~r"~ and around the area. The building does look to be a little out of place, although, it does ,~ . . µ `'~~~'~~ sound like a very good plan for kids and so forth. The other -- I guess the other thing I ~~ don't see addressed -- and I do not have the Comprehensive Plan -- is the amount of ''~' ~.r~ people that are -- children and staff and so forth that are going to be in and around that ` ~~, r } rt~ site at this time. That's aIL ~t ~~}~ ,, t w"~ ~~ i ~,. . F..Ztit yet. 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Y `,~,'C ~; ++t r2~ t + e i ~ ~.ai ,E rst~yk ~» ~ i ; -r -w±~ `~ <i~r}.~r~. ~ r ~ ~` N J -~.~ r x krxb 7 r - 4 4 (~~ t~ [~ ti 55 ~ ,r4 ' ~ - ~ ~fi y ~ _ r i-Y' r' e ; .a, S` t _t ~ p'ti ~ ~ Sf` ~ .p- P 7 r'"`}~?,~,P"~ a~'-r C'-K~'~'r2i~G~ ~WC'~r +~~~1• ~t. J;ik~ ',t.~Mi ,. ~E'r {'~}~r''Cti~ _ ~r~,t ir. _ ;~~' Cry. C N~ y,~, ~ f _ 'C~' , ti x '_ l ~ ~ ~ ,~ , t ~~ Y h ,'S' ;, :, ..: y ~;;, ~~ ~;:~ ~~. >,r; ~_ Meridian Planning & Zoning e • December 5, 2002 Page 40 of 74 Zaremba: Sir, your property is across the street from this -- Pew: Right. Zaremba: What use is that? Is it a residence or a commercial use or -- Pew: I use it as a rental. Zaremba: A rental residence? Pew: Yes. Zaremba: Okay. Borup: Do we have anyone else? Come forward, sir. Taggart: Commissioners, staff, my name is Dennis Taggart, I live at 436 West Broadway, which is just about five houses down across the street from the property. My concerns and comments tonight are -- have less to do with the program that these folks have put together, which I think is admirable and seems to have addressed most of the issues and have worked hard just to -- for a couple of the issues involved. My concern - - and I will reverse my presentation, to go along with this gentleman, is that this street, Broadway, has become a raceway. I have lived at this location, well, since I was little and then I moved away and came back and I have been there full time since 1989. I have seen quite a change with new apartments and housing being built and it has become a raceway, particularly at the early hours of the morning and coming home hours at night, because people come down off of Meridian and it's a mile of straight road and not enough time to get there. In addition to that, there has been new industrial and commercial uses that have been allowed to go into this area, which has increased the heavy traffic. Some of it is moving also above the speed limit in the way of industrial trucks and even semis and two houses -- two properties to the west of this is a commercial operation that has semi deliveries several times a week. The problems that you face on Meridian Road and Pine with no turn signal, forces an awful lot of that traffic to turn down Broadway to go to 4~" Street, which is right behind this property then turn back over to Pine to avoid that left turn at 5:00. It is a significant amount, they are all in a hurry, of course, to get home, and there are many accidents. I'm sure the folks here from the senior center will attest to the fact that it's very difficult with 45 degree parking to curb and backing out onto Broadway, to even deal with that. I'm concerned about the number of people that will be coming here will have to face that and -- because they are at the end of the raceway at 8:00 in the morning. I would suggest that as a condition to this that you throw your weight to Ada County Highway District to put speed bumps or to the Meridian Police Department to put more patrols and some way to eliminate the traffic that speed and the numbers that we have going down that road today. The next street over to the north is Idaho, I believe, and we have got new apartments that have been built there in the last two or three years. There is a section, the one lot that has not been developed, therefore, that piece of road has not been improved and there is a ::~~~)• ~ {K~~~ ~l +~~~ ~F~ Meridian Plannin & Zonin 9 9 ,,% December 5, 2002 Page 41 of 74 '' barricade that stops through traffic on Idaho Street, which forces all those folks to come b ~~..~ down either Broadway or Pine. Again, Pine is avoided, because the left turn issue forces all those folks back down Broadway. It is a huge issue and I think it's something that you need to consider in granting this application, is what can you do as a body representing the interest of the public and the city to go to other jurisdictions and get something happening to address that traffic issue. More importantly, I urge you not to .~ approve this project or any project in this area, based only on the fact that this area has `. ~~. been notorious for lack of zone enforcement. There has been allowed uses in the Light ~` ` Industrial that are not allowed uses or are being done so in violation of zoning 4 -~~ f ~~~ conditions and the complaint to Planning and Zoning and enforcement has fallen on deaf ears. Until and unless the city is ready to enforce the zoning requirements in a - Light Industrial, I don't think you should put any of your property with conditions that will ~~' ~ not be enforced. I specifically will tell you that two doors to the west is a steel fabrication operation and Light Industrial says that manufacturing and wholesale are to ~~,~: be clean, quiet, free of noise, odor, dust, smoke, and glare and operated entirely or _ almost entirely with obstructions. There is -- none of this is happening at this location, ~:~~: all of it is visible from the street, there is no building on this fabrication and it happens `~ , ~'~` out in the open, especially since they burned down their shed. There were numerous complaints from the paint spray and I'm telling these folks to deal with it particularly , , , because it goes that way, more than it comes my way. There is noise in the grinding operations in the cutting of the steel and nothing happens there. There is also people residing on the property in Light Industrial and working at this location. There are r~x abandoned cars, unlicensed cars that are parked on the street, which is in violation you ~~ can't park on the street for more then 48 hours. There also needs to be a 35-foot t ~~ setback in the front, there needs to be landscaping, there needs to be sprinkler systems, and that's just this one property. If you go five more properties down, there is a construction yard, a contractor's yard, H&H is parking their trucks down there and that '~~"' is not allowed in a light industrial zone. In fact, it cannot be located within 300 feet of any residence and there is also someone residing on that property as well. It's limited to ~` storage and maintenance incidental to the contracting work, which does follow that if ,t ;~. you say it's a parking lot, then, it must be paved. It must have landscaping, it must have -~~ landscaping, must have an engineered stamp, none of these things have happened. If ,: ~ r~ ~~ you go two more doors down from that, you have a commercial concrete operation that has been there for as long as I can remember, that allows for -- you cannot have outdoor commercial industrial materials that aren't screened from any residence and that's not happening. There are retail sales of materials out in front there. There is -- again, all the work is out in the open, there is no building there, whatever. These are ~= three things that many of us along that street have been concerned about and have discussed with Planning and Zoning and Zoning Enforcement. We are told basically ~ that they would look into it, but that over at these folk's place, if you're talking '~ ' ~ enforcement, enforcement informed me that there is not -- and the opinion of counsel, assume that's you, that we don't have the means or the will to enforce that zoning -the zoning issues. Until and unless you're ready to enforce the requirements of zoning, don't see how you can approve a project in this neighborhood that will require that certain requirements be met and if they are not, to have enforcement. With that issue, I „x ~~ ~ thank you very much. {,.~ ~ < A : ~_ ~:~:: a~; ~,.~ , ~~ ,, ,, ~. ~~ ~`~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 ,~~~~' Page 42 of 74 ~~' Borup: Thank you. Centers: Mr. Taggart, what was your address, please? 4.~~-~ Taggart: 436 West Broadway. f rS~:~ 1 Centers: Okay. Thank you. ,~.~ I~< :r~ Taggart: It's about the third house west of 4~" Street on the west side. _:,; ~.: Centers: Thank you. a i..-t. Borup: Do we have anyone else that would like to come forward? 3;',~ Corneally: Can you see me? I live at 322 West Broadway, my name is Mary Corneally, and I have a question about my side of the street. I'm across the street. Personally, I ~' think this would be beautiful site to walk out my door and see the -- what we are talking about tonight. I have a question and I know you don't want to go into that tonight, but what does it do to -- what you have changed, what does it do to my side of the street? ~. Are we light industrial or are we not? Borup: You would stay the same. Their request for zoning is just on their property. ~' Corneally: On that side of the street? ~:, ~~~ Borup: Just on their property only. ~; ~~ Corneally: That's an unusual law that they ever did that to start with, one side of the ~~. street is, the side of the street not. Borup: Well, the property in this case is zoned just the property they own. Corneally: Right but all up that street -- ~' Borup: Oh, you mean what it was originally zoned. Yes. Corneally: Yes. Originally zoned and the other side of the street when we found our ~~~- property, we thought it was zoned the same way. In fact, the realtor told us it was so we ~~`~ had to pay a lot of money to just have a hobby shop behind our house. That was my question, to see if you changed anything. >,, Borup: No. That was before everyone's time around here when that happened. I assume probably because of the proximity to the railroad tracks, but -- K ~~. f~~C, S; _ Corneally: But I don't really have anything against this. In fact, I think it would add to ~s~~: the neighborhood myself. t? ~~ ,,~ .;, qg ~ °a,v i YRE J: ~,; ~+: 5 ~ ~~kT. f f r, I~~~ ~ - :F ~ .~ r _' z~~.7{.r~ ip: 5s,~ 5p5~+ Y p Y ~5 5 S~ 7 ~ . } f:° a5 - ,~`:~~ - ~~ ,~ ~ye~, t ry.li~ I J.~i` M t~ Ayr f(~ ~~ ~ ~h. i:ar ;.~ ~ ~ - - ~. ,a u ~ ~ ~~ ~..,~. ~~ ~~t.:... yM.. ~~ ~r_ sL~ - .. .yV `f .L ~~~~ ~ y ~ i~~ * ~ ~ ~f~ ~ Y.,. ,_. k~y4 _ .. TS •~~ jti:' t ~ ~= ~;. iae `-: ~F ~ ~~ 3~ ~~ ~ _ h~z . ,~ h t ~'~',S` ~ ~ ~ ; . _ ~~ *~4i _ r~ .S ~ Rr ~~~: ;~, ~, r ~ ~~: ~s ~1 - °` . :r, ,~ e s '~ . ~ L~~ r ~ ~ G.f >~Ml'~~r~.'~ y~ ~ 1,~. ~ z .~, v: :~ ~ ~~ 4 f3. a+; s~ ,~ , _ tx ~~ + r ~~'Yn..'.~^ ~3 i ~~~ ~~ f ~ ~ 6. b f a0. ,} yfp ~~ ~ ~t ' ~ ^ ~~ ~ ~, .~ 4 F sl ~ w; ~ ~ ~~ °} _ ~ ~~~~ 4 n ;` F T~ Y ;G ~ ,~'. - ~Y .{.. ,~ , i7., . ~ r,. r ,~,~: ~ h~ ~M ~t' ~ Ir N ~~ ,~~, ~~ ;, K r ~~ ~ l f ~~h. ..,- q 1'a, r~..'~ ~.~, '~ „,3,~ A ~a'~;ri ti,1 X§,. ~ 1. ~~ ~; } ~ _ '] L r ~. icy 1 ~,' ^~~5 ' 71 '_ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 43 of 74 Centers: What was your name again? Corneally: Mary Corneally. Borup: Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else? Nesbitt: My name is Rich Nesbitt. I live at 717 West 2"d Street. I also own the property on the corner of West 4~' and Idaho, which would be 331 West Idaho. I have the unique opportunity to experience the traffic flow that comes since they put the stop light in at Pine and that's my major concern. I didn't get a chance to attend the town meeting, I appreciate the opportunity, but, I'm song, I just didn't get a chance to make it. I don't if anyone's discussed it with Ada County yet. I would not like to see speed bumps through there. I think they are just sort of like a place to do wheelies with is what people use them for. They did put a stop sign on the corner of West 4th and West Idaho going I guess east and west there to try to help slow down the traffic a bit and I would like to see something addressed about the traffic that's going to occur when we put this in. I understand they are going to be busing kids in, but I would imagine they are also going to have cars bringing the kids in during the rush hour traffic. It's just -- it's like an Indy 500 in there sometimes, cars are just zipping through the neighborhood trying to get around and trying to get home. I don't know what the solution might be for that. I'm not opposed to having a school there, I think it would be a nice thing to do, but I am concerned about the traffic it would bring. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Mr. Landry, do you have any final comments? Landry: Just a few. I appreciate the late hour. In terms of Mr. Taggart's concerns and they are very understandable, Imight just mention that in Boise where our Head Start is located, I'm the president of the neighborhood association, so I work with our neighborhood a lot. Just to assure you and Mr. Taggart, we are the kind of organization that if you put conditions on us, we will abide by them. We will live up to that and that is our reputation and on every one of properties that how it goes. In terms of the traffic, we did discuss this at length with neighborhood meeting and definitely heard an issue that I have heard a lot around all of our schools, because it's in all of the neighborhoods, increasing traffic on side streets in Boise and Meridian. We are right across the street from Cassia Park, there are speed bumps, we find young people --and not to just to lay it there, but predominately a lot of the kids that pull out of that park --and it's a race from one speed bump to the next. We have definitely worked a lot in our neighborhood on trying to do traffic calming. For example, on our little yellow school buses, we are the pace cars, so we have got together with Smart Growth, and we are a pace car. Our drivers drive the speed limit and that slows traffic down and we encourage and we work with our parents around the safety issues of their children that they become pace car people that will slow the traffic. There has been a lot of variety of remedies to slow traffic. Speed bumps are one. We are not traffic experts. 1 personally haven't seen a great success. The other thing that I can assure the neighborhood is that we work extensively with the neighborhood police. When had our open house in Garden City, , i ` - 1 .: •~f ii rV 4~' Al~'fA, "iZ ~ Y 5~, _t Pr .~a~, _,r -+ '€E°^' C '.tit pH~,l ~ > ' ,.p} , l F ~ 1 -..~s` ~ ~,~+~a db, .~, ef~' ;s,.,. 4' ~'~ as ~ ;J i ~ .: ~' ~ ~~-~~~ ~'? i x a'j '~h tih - ~7 ~~j~1'd-~ ~~ y:~ :r ~ v ,~ ~'~ „ ~ `. K.r Y r ~~ { ~ tr i. ~..,, 2 - ,.} Y4~ b :.+ ~ try: '~, ~Q!Af A < tt't ~ r ~•. t - 1 tnv !~ IjjS ~ {y tNC ~ i yt•p •b:~ -t~ P ~'. *, 4 t 2 rf 1 ~ P^~11C ~t~ J"~~i-@. s ~~"'R ti ,. ~' r~ ry`~ ,~ tit 3 ~- ~ a ~: tl4 '' S ti~ r '~ :~ ~ ~~ *4~r<xo.'~~`~',T4s~t~`'f':" s S[yrx yt~ ~ $ :;... C n r ~ y ' ~~r .t~ i ~~ y`x~ ti-{~ +~: r ~Y ~, y~~ ~~` L ~ c h~ ' '~ r 1 ~ .~,r NPR { }~! ~j~, t ]c--~ ~: r d~~~~"ti }.~ ~t~3~ d~,~~:~k' e-1"~" ' d r$_ '~~`r`"1 .'u~'c'~ r' ti t ,~ ~ , is ',~ ~. R' ~ - _ ~k _ i F ~ , yn: p , M' a r ~. - ' ::~ y l f ~ M I- 1+ ..~5.' 'fl~~. }} - F . 4rty. .y~ ~'~Ww~aY.4 • ~~ >: ~~~ ~ - -. ~,~ i ~ar..... ~ 4c. . "~'~ `. : b+~~- Ski +'r'.~~' , „~„ +- ~ . . ;t^?zr ~,,,,jj.. ~ _ 4a ' ' T Y- . ~ y~r; cr ti ~,~ y Y - ~~ fir ..`-,S . i',r, ,at r ~~N ~,~ ~'. , z~s . "! h , Meridian Planning & Zoning , December 5, 2002 Page 44 of 74 s;. <~ almost the entire Garden City Police Force was in attendance that night. They'd come over, they'd visit the school, they made presentations, and those police cars parked out ~~~~~' front had a traffic calming effect. The other thing is they bond with the program and -`':; they come around a lot more so we have had those kind of, I think, salutary effects on i traffic in our neighborhoods. We will work with the neighbors just in general because it's }=?- tough on all of us in the way our neighborhoods have become raceways. See we will work together with our neighbors to make sure that we don't have an adverse effect in the way. :::r Mathes: Someone had a question on how many kids. Landry: Oh. We are funded for 34 children. There are 17 in the classroom that we A„~` have funded for. We can, with expansion over time -- I don't have funds for expansion ~`L'r`` beyond that. In time we have done A.M. and P.M. shifts. An A.M. shift starts at 8:00 and is over at noon, the other one is noon to 4:00, and those are our hours. Right now, on average, we bus 21 -- 78 percent of our kids and about 21 percent are brought by families. We have several centers and this is a neighborhood where there are a 4i "5,, number of families that live in the neighborhood, we would really like to encourage the `~~' families to walk their children to school. lY }~ Centers: More curious question. What's the maximum income for a family to qualify? Landry: Well, it's graded by size, but it's about 14,600 for a family of four, just to give you a sense. Centers: Excellent program. Landry: Thank you, sir. -~~~ Borup: Okay. Thank you. Commissioners? Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I had a question of staff. Borup: Okay. _> Rohm: Back to this Landscape Ordinance and the conversion to Old Town and the fact that those two seem to be a little bit in conflict. It seems to me that when an applicant comes before us with a request to move to an Old Town, wouldn't it also be ~:~= accompanied by a Variance request, if, in fact, the Landscape Ordinance could not be ~;_; adhered to and still keep within the flavor of Old Town? Siddoway: Two answers for you. The first is that the Landscape Ordinance has an ~-~ outlet for these small in-fill lots called alternative compliance that allows them to submit, ,~ , through a staff level review, for an alternative that we would deem as meeting the intent of the ordinance to the extent feasible. That would not require them to do a Variance. It's a way to limit the number of Variances in situations where we deem that the {;~~~~ _,.: y ~~r~, ~ ~;~~r ~-s '~ ~.. ; ~ :v ~ r "~ 4l ~~ ~. K~ } ? 1 r.~ ~>~ v }.. ~,iEn t r,.~ ~ti ~ j~3-!'i~~1~ ~,~ ~ Vii. ?"}2z~ ? : k ~~.~ ' Meridian Planning & Zoning Page 45 of 74 >µy, x:14,-- application meets the intent of the ordinance and maximizes the use as much as possible. The second answer to your question is there is always going to be these '' issues, especially with buffers between land uses in Old Town. To address that we are ' f~ - now working on some new design standards for Old Town specifically and it does a lot 4 ~' °~{`l more than just landscaping, but that is one of the items that we are looking at. That's fY S f. :, ".r not yet adopted, but that's probably the right way to address it is other adopt standards ~?` for Old Town that make sense for Old Town. ~3~. i~` °~ Rohm: And I think that's where I was going with this is it seems like there is always that conflict there and if, in fact, you address it up front, then, each time one of these :~-~s: developments came forward, you wouldn't have that as a quote, unquote, issue. Siddoway: I totally agree and so we are trying to adopt a new ordinance for Old Town. Rohm: Thank you. "'" Centers: But yet, I agree with the flexibility. We don't have any neighbors here tonight complaining it and we don't -- on either side of the property and that's what I look at and consider. While I've got the floor, I noted that we have two neighbors down the street at _ 424 and 417 Broadway, two different people that write letters highly in favor of this ;~~r project. The lady right across the street at 322 West Broadway is anxious to see it and ~_~` just wondering about her zoning, which, of course, stays the same. You know, I'm highly in favor of the project. I think most of the neighborhood is and a lot of other ~_~ people wrote letters that have worked at Head Start. I think we personally need to move forward and make them comply with the staff comments and go forward. '~` Zaremba: I would just add, since Commissioner Centers brought it up, I think we should at least read into the record the names of the people that have sent us letters. I ~~ mentioned James Cain earlier, who was in favor with some conditions. The letters that ~`°' we have received are from Patty Miles, Marion Watson, Cara Curbs, Molly Strokeman, ;: Jan Cox, and Craig and Dawn Downen, all appear to be in favor of this project. ;~ Borup: Thank you. The hearing is still open. Centers: I move we close the Public Hearing. Zaremba: Second. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? =: ~ MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Centers: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we recommend approval to the City Council for Item 8, Public Hearing RZ 02-006, request for rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L to O-T for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children and Families, Incorporated, at 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue, including all staff comments. ~~, u t ~^ t+ ~a ~ ~ ~ ~~. - s~ ~ ~ t : ~: ~ ~. 1 ~ ~' ~~~ ~~~ - r L ~,-i ,,y ~,. :, `( :vfi,~w !~ CSy;:u µnr t..f - t , ~5ti ~t~~~i r Cam. } ~ , - i ~ 1 C~'r5 ~' ~ '- ~ L 1 ',' c f T, `.. ex ~ ~~~ -;P~~w~ ~x fi~~'" } ~~~~~ 'Vf ate .F 3~ ~ t~i~~N, c ~r ~~ ~p ~, L ' kF~}~ c~ ..µ.1 ~ ^h» y c s ,; P w }~~ yl '1.~Y - ~ .~~ Y.. 1 f..yy ../ +{ 1. ZT ~` .~. # H~~P' t'j~~'*~ ,~. ; ny ~~~ f~ r{:' ~, , J= a.~:~ ~ , .~~' r~ t ~~' 2ti ;~ ~ .,-tfri,. _ .. •3} r<" y !.~}.3 tr.Y y ~~, .,~, ,r.; . , ~v • ! "`' Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 46 of 74 ~~~ Zaremba: I would like to make an amendment to that. Staff site-specific requirement ~ ~'~ number two was that they the Rutledge Lateral. ~: 3 .,.:.. ~~-~;F Centers: That wasn't on the zoning. Was that on the zoning? Zaremba: I'm sorry it's not on the zoning. It's on the CUP. I second his motion as it ~~~- stands. }.~~. x r Borup: Okay. Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? ` °~ " Thank you. ~ , ~ ' , ._ ~`~F' ~;,.,, MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES _~ _- ^^ Centers: Continuing on. I would recommend approval to the City Council for Item 9 on 'n` our agenda, Public Hearing CUP 02-037, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a ,:..s "` ```` two-classroom center serving young children and families and a 400-square foot ~: community meeting room for Meridian Head Start by Friends of Children's and Families, ~~~~:':. , Incorporated, at 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue. Including all staff comments, , f.. ~: ~,.z;~°~- ~ r;, with the additional tilin would not be re ulred and a fence in lieu of. That was the onl 9 q ~ Y other thing that I could see and all other staff comments. =- `'' ,,~,..,. ~:,~ Borup: That's a modification to Site-Specific Requirement Number 2 on Page 7. ~y `~'` Centers: Yes. ~- : Zaremba: I'll second that one. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. ~~`` MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Zaremba: Before we move on, though, I would like to comment that Mr. Talbot brings up some very heavy subjects in that neighborhood. I agree with not holding this project hostage to those, but the city does need to make sure that its codes are being enforced. Siddoway: Well, let me just offer this we hired a new Code Enforcement Officer this week. He is -- the Code Enforcement OfFcers we have had up until now are focusing '> ~ primarily on weeds, cars, and things like that. This Code Enforcement Officer is to s .' ' enforce zoning regulations, conditions of Conditional Use Permits, signs, and the like so ~. ^'°"'` if that gentleman would contact -- `> ~ Zaremba: I would invite Mr. Talbot to make that list -- Taggart. I'm sorry to make that Ff` ,. ~_ ~~~~ _ list in writing. It was a very comprehensive and important list. I appreciate it, every item €-~~`~ ~~ you brought up but if you would put that in writing and forward it to Planning and Zoning, ~~,~f I think that would helpful. ;; ~~ ~~ #j ~ u .r: r t ;. Y' R ii ,1~y51 v~iF ¢ s ~ ?~.7•~ q: A't ilu ::',ic ~,c.~,,~,r:4~: r ~"~~~ ~ ti~3rc~ts~?-~ ~~ .; yw.rtfr- 'i ~q #'~ - _'_~ ~ a 'C N ~ '? t str ~ r ~ ~. ` ~~ ¢ ~lY'lu~a~+wl ~``!.risx d.?5` L ~~~~^~"R JSJ yaiC'~ i2~ k. 1 ,~ ~n ~~ a t t l o. ~ T tax ~, 7.~ -'~:N' - - ~~~~~ ., i ~ FS ~c r ~~' _. 9~ -~ _ r~, t P ° ~~~ ~>, . 4 jib 3~, t ~ ` k 'ate s ty , g !` " 4 ~- ~ ~~ u Ct. - y ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 47 of 74 Siddoway: It is very good and we will have to see what conditions of approval exist that we can enforce. We will have to keep in mind that some of those may be legal nonconforming uses, but that is something that we can look into, definitely. Zaremba: Thank you. Thank you for your thought on that one. .,, :;i :. ~~~-~ :: Borup: Thank you. Mr. Landry, could you use these extra plans? Okay. Our next item ~n is Public Hearing RZ 02 dash -- Commissioners, do we want to continue on or does ~~ anybody need a break? w,,, `' Rohm: Let's take a break. Borup: Okay. We'll take a short break at this time. "_ (Recess at 9:25 P.M.) (Reconvene at 9:38 P.M.) Item 10. Public Hearing: IZZ 02-007 Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R- 4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by Meridian First Baptist Church - 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue: Borup: I think we are ready to reconvene. The next item is Public Hearing RZ 02-007, ;. request for rezone of 2.83 acres from R-4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by the Meridian First Baptist Church at 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue. At this time, I >,f ~~~= will open this Public Hearing and start with the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This is a '~F_' requested rezone for just over two and a half acres along Pine Avenue. It's an existing church from Meridian First Baptist Church. The properties are outlined for you on the `~-~ vicinity map. Let's see. This is an existing site photo of those properties today. You can see the existing church and the surrounding residential uses. This is a photo taken from street level -- today, actually, of the church. The current zoning there is R-4 and this is ,~~: similar to two other applications you have seen recently of a church in an existing R-4 zone, rezoning to limited office, to clean it up and make it a situation where the church is a permitted use and not a prohibited use. You should have a staff report dated November 27th. Staff does support the requested rezone to L-O. There are six ` ' conditions of approval on the property and we would recommend approval of this k~ rezone application with those conditions. I'll stand for any questions. Borup: Thank you. Any questions? Does the applicant have anything they'd like to add to what the staff report -- Touchstone: My name is Justin Touchstone I live at 400 West Farmall Way in Kuna, Idaho. As you can see, it's a pretty straightforward application. We are looking to just clean it up. We have recently purchased the house right next door, as you can see, to i , ~, ~~,>.~. 1N~ Y :, . 1 ~, z, ~~ k ~ _ `^,F ~ i 1'ti. ~'. t _.~„Y~~ ~,. , t,7~~. t r~ ~ -~ . tt~~~ ,1. 4~~A~~ . i. ~^ s~ f °3ir k z Y^ z W°,~ ~, w t~~ ,~,_ .,,F•, ,~iy~'ie~- ., - .. Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 48 of 74 the west of our existing property. We are looking to do this just to -- we are looking to expand, adding some additional classroom spaces and some other facilities. It was represented to us by a number of people that this would be a good way to clean up the purchase property, along with our two existing parcels that we own. We are aware of the staff comments and that we will meet them at the time that we do -- start to develop our site in the future. We have copies of those in our file as well. Really, I mean what -- get my notes here. We are not looking to change the use on the site. I did receive a phone call from one of the neighbors asking that question, if we were looking to sell the site, move off, have it zoned for a limited office for another developer to come in and change the use of the site. We are a long term and we are looking to stay at the site. We like the site, we like the location in town, we think it's a good place for our church to be. That's not really -- that's not the reason we are looking for the rezone, we are just looking for the rezone. When we do develop, we don't do a Conditional Use Permit for every little project we do and pay the fee every time. We would pay the one-time fee to rezone it and then we are clear for permitting. Then we will have to come before you for approval, of course, on the site plan and other things, but we don't have to pay the conditional fee every time we want to go ahead with a development of the project. Borup: And we understand. Steve had mentioned that we have had several others recently doing the same thing and it's getting more in compliance with what the city would like to see. Touchstone: That's what Steve and I discussed yesterday. Borup: Any questions from the Commission? All right. Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify in this application? Langley: Dean Langley, 3185 North Black Cat Road. Mr. Touchstone covered most of the items that I would have covered, so I won't repeat that, other than to say that we have experienced significant growth in the last year or two and that was part of the reason why we did buy the 506 property on the west side. Our philosophy as a group of Christian people is that we don't want to be a super church we don't want to put 1,000 people on that site. We do want to build it to its maximum potential given the city guidelines under L-O. Then once we have reached that point, we will probably be looking at starting another church somewhere else and having people stay right where they are, rather than pick up and move and sell the property. How many people that involves, you know, we will have to determine that, working with the city staff and the other existing guidelines. We do like the site, we like the neighborhood, and we like Meridian and see what potential is there for what we need to do and this is one of the first concrete steps we need to take to make it a success. Thank you. Siddoway: Thank you. Do we have anyone else? Seeing none, Commissioners? Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move the Public Hearing be closed. Rohm: I will second that. ,; ~,j~ - a =r;,. ~4Yyg r ~ E ~.~- fly ~~6sr~~,r ~ +• ~. 'k '~F`~~ T 1. ~. ~ ~~ } ~ a `~_ l ~~ Nom`. r ~ '~~~~~ , <• rx . ~•.vy~'`~'F ~- N, S y, yy~?.- .. T 1'r` , ~a ~~ ,~ . ~~ ~ a rM~ t5,~y~i ' F,~~ ' ,, :' ;c. ~ Y< ~ ;~ ~ h { ., y `1~r ~ ~~ .~. ^M }~ ~ . . 14.~H 4 r ~~ ~~~,-= ~~ ~. ~ ~ E 1 Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 49 of 74 Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Zaremba: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner. Zaremba: I move that we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 10 on our agenda, RZ 02-007, request for a rezone of 2.83 acres from R-4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church by Meridian First Baptist Church, 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue, to include all staff comments. Mathes: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 11. Public Hearing: ZA 02-002 Request to Amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9- 2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments by Wardle & Associates: Borup: The next item is Public Hearing ZA 02-002, request to amend zoning ordinance 11-9-2 on Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations to allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments. This is by Wardle & Associates. Open the hearing at this time and start with the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. What's before you tonight is a request to amend our Zoning Ordinance to allow encroachment into setbacks of two feet into the front, side, rear setbacks for architectural structures, such as covered patios, porches, pop-out windows, could be fireplaces, and the like. It also states that an uncovered balcony could project four feet onto a rear yard setback. In addition to that, the -- it also requests that we allow for 15-foot front yard setbacks for both side entry garages and living areas. A recent amendment to the Zoning Ordinance already makes provision for living areas to be built up to the 15 feet, but does not -- it excludes garages and this would propose to allow that for side entry garages only. We would point out -- we have met with the Fire Chief and the Building Inspector, we do believe that the requested zoning amendment is in compliance with the Uniform Fire Code, the International Fire Code, and the Uniform Building Code, the International Building Code, it's not in violation of any of those Uniform Building Codes that are applied to developments. In general, we do not have any major objections to the request. We like the idea of encouraging the use of front porches and the like closer to the streets. There are some recommended modifications to the proposed ordinance language on Page 2, I believe, that Jonathan Wardle is here tonight with the proposed 1 t~: '~ 'a, F, t ~Yi: -. ~T ."'~it'~1 ~~~5i.Y~~+kC~~~.1i~~1 i~}~*4:= 3 1i.?.5~~~}1 ~~~'F< {4.ji~, ~~ ~.L 4 ~~ r }~ 'ice ~! ;k r ~~r~ i ~~~ 1 ~ c~' 1 ~, x ~ * ` r .gip x ~'~~ r~.~ ~ s~~~~~ ~ ~~, . . ~ r 4 ~~ ~+~ ..3~. ~ ,'i '~r:c ~Jr , v' I ~~. ~_ ~ r~ j,~~yp'~'~w~;w ~ ~Gfit~lr~~ ~ ~aY ~' ct> ~Y x r~'d~5 '' ,rr rr ~?~ Kira ~ ..~~ a ,._~ .:1- f ~,,ti~,~F F,E' u~t':5 ~q: , ,~- ., t ~, ~:. #~ ,tom 4~ ~ k* i_~«+tit~uj,, i~~ ~n;,.a `'- ~ ~ r ~~~ ' ~ 3 ~ ~ : ~ ~ ~ , ,~ ,. ,`a Yom? : 31R ~ .'.t ~, a c Y ' ~ r ,~`; ; t y9"~^~'irYt~k.~£'f'~~'~5..b~' r~ +,~h'~i~a #s .c"'h.'. k _ti~~ u~'-~' ~J~ Y~ { ~ ~~ l y ~ %~ ~' . r a ~ r ~, ` aY~-~~y5 i~: ~~r ~i.~ ~ E r+t`°g ~Illy~~~ , ~~ y,~,.a .~~ ::~'~~ i,- tk ,' i~ '~'..^~~~t ,T ~ ~ n ~ 4 Ytsf~'~ c-c~~ .t". {+' 4+~ 3"yi ~~ 11~ ~ ~FI.aK9'1„~ }~ r(j}'~'~~ r, St ~F} ~`. iri r -rr$~~~~,~~~~.~r~,t. ~~F~si°~~~n ~ ~'8'r~~,17 ~ ci1' '~ v ~ t _ f c} ~~ ~~ r;~gr t~,_. .~ tk 7 'i'. , t ~~t;: ~( ;. ' ~.~ 1+~t.}^ ~A ' ..,,,~~~ ,~( y ~ ,, ~h~FMj .y. 'f~R~~~'i~~'112~T~'?~.'~'~ ~ }ti~~.~ i .~,~jt ~~z .' Rl'~ ii+~~~ -. } t yr }~ c ~~' ai. 1.*"^sn, ~~ T t ~~ $ t4r ~. ~ ..p '4 1 .-~fi`U ~{~. t. } ,1 J'4T •4MI. Kji .t fl6'%'YY'1 ~,`,6 ~~'.l[Sit~~L vty r '7 ' sy. ~ , ~~,. 5 ~ ~~Y f - ~ - ~ ~A ~F~;,r }a r r ~ ryai; ~y i ~,~ { r~ i;.~ r7,,, k,,, r.f~ ;~: :::'a Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 50 of 74 write-up that incorporates all those changes. The one item for additional consideration, as we met with the Fire Chief, was his concern over increasing the possible spread of fire between structures. It was particularly an issue for him in situations where the city has already reduced side yard setbacks for two-story structures to allow to be just simply afive-foot -- as opposed to a five-foot per story setback. If you, then, take a two- story building with afive-foot setback, that would be 10 feet between the buildings. If you then allow atwo-foot encroachment on each side, it could potentially be six feet between buildings. If you then add a fence between the two properties, it becomes difficult for them to access a second floor if they need to with a ladder. That's the worst- case scenario that he's playing out in his mind. One solution to that would be to restrict the use of fences in areas -- in situations where those reduced setbacks are granted on the sites. I know that the applicant has prepared a presentation with lots of pictures that will help you to visualize this a little better, so I think with that I will just stop, stand for any questions, and then we can go from there. Borup: Questions? Centers: Yes. I have one question, Mr. Chairman. You say you met with the Fire Chief? Siddoway: Yes. Actually, Joe Silva, who is the Deputy Fire Chief. Centers: Okay. Yes Deputy Fire Chief but he wasn't prepared to give you an amended letter? His letter still stands? I mean -- you know what I'm saying? He didn't give you an amended letter stating that -- I mean he still feels that it would be a high potential fire risk? Siddoway: He does. Centers: Okay. Thank you. Borup: Any other questions? I don't know, Steve, do you want to answer this or maybe the applicant -- several of the letters of support mentioned that this would bring us closer into compliance with other cities in the valley. Is that your understanding? Siddoway: It's my understanding that the City of Boise does allow these architectural E. projections into the setbacks. I don't know what other cities do. Just ask the applicant to address that. Borup: Okay. Centers: That was one of my questions. Borup: Mr. Wardle. ~`Yx ;. rY~ r~. j,. fi ~~'~~'t •r~k.y ~ G K ~ ~~ ~~7~ q.. r, z s~ 21w{ #`r s .. 4:~'~S .a.'~~ s ~,'~t"<r Yc~ J 1 ~'d: t r 'r ~ i t <`" at a 7 Mi` . r7~ Sr.a..t ~aa h'A ~f'~i~i ~}'~' . r.~ ' i'r L~~~ ' "`k fic w~'G t1'~~~Y `jrax'u -; a~ "~~ c t ' ' „' r,~~tis F.,r. ., ~ ~ ~~r ` • ` Meridian Planning & Zoning s:>^"' December 5, 2002 Page 51 of 74 ~'~~~~ Wardle: Good evening. For the record, my name is Jon Wardle. My address is 50 ,,<: Broadway Avenue in Boise. Just to start out, I have a handout and I'll state for the record the additions by staff we are in agreement with and those are included in this ~- handout, so it's complete. What we submitted, as well as what the staff recommended, be amended to that, so I'd like to give this to you before I start. Borup: When you say you agree with, do you mean the changes that they had recommended? =~~`~' Wardle: On Page 2. All right. I did put together a PowerPoint presentation, just so we i.'YFry~.. r`.: ~Y weren't dealing with just black and white here. I think sometimes it's a little hard to ,~_~~ visualize what were attempting to accomplish with this. I had also provided some '~~ ra hlcs. I'm not sure if those were g p ' given to you in your packets, but as part of the ~y'_~:, application there were some exhibits included -- those are the exhibits. Great. I don't know how in depth you want to go in this. I would like to just show you a few pictures of ~.~ where this is in practice and also, for the record, we were just discussing it, the City of ~`~`~~ ~ Garden City -- and I'm not sure if it's by Conditional Use or not. They do allow three- foot setbacks, so six feet between structures and they have allowed fencing down the middle of those as well in at least one case. Borup: Single-story ortwo-story? Wardle: Actually, it's a combination. The one project I'm thinking of is down at the river '' at Glenwood, just south of the river, I think it's called River's Place, they have both two- `r, story and single-story, but all the setbacks in there are uniform and they are three feet from the property line, six feet between structures. Steve, if we could go to the third slide there. Right there. Probably the big issue -- and you're going to see a lot more of these. We have got one project currently under development and another one that's ,,,, '~"'• going to be coming in front of you and these are front door porches and this is in an alley in one of our projects. We have got some variety in depths here, but these are -- I these are 12 feet to the front of porch and I think minimum of 12 or a minimum of 10. It's between 10 and 12 feet to the front of the porch and then there is an additional = setback there the next one, Steve. This is actually a side entry garage. They projected ~,` the -- the front of the porch bumps out. It's a15-foot setback and on the right-hand side `~~ is a garage with a side entry. Let's go ahead to the next one. This we have -- you can ,'i- see the garage is actually in front of the living space, but the porch bumps out in front of ~~; ~~ that garage, so you're given another protection out there. Let's go to the next one. And this is an example of what I was talking about with a second story balcony, allowing that ;; setback. I don't know that this one encroaches too much into the setback, but it allows ''~~ some flexibility as well. Let's go to the next one. This is probably the issue that was covered most in the ordinance and the staff comments. What we are talking about are '~~ these projections. On the picture on the left, that's afireplace, adirect-in fireplace the picture on the right that's also adirect-in fireplace. These are two story structures. _~, There is ten feet between them and the two-foot projection there. Let's go to the next one. Same thing here two different structures here. What we have is actually a fence on the -- the one on the right, a fence behind that direct fireplace vent. The one on the .~ <,.i.sa :,,. <~~ ~ }z tN ~rr~ eJr. ~ j r~ Y ~yy ,~ `1 f ~ S ' ! \` ~~ } 'e ai+ ~~f¢~45~44 [M,5 ~~ ~~~~'~* ~ ~atr~~ p4 sS 1 , a~~ - t !~t~Mr 7 ~~~ g ~~~ 3.~t 4 ~' c t *~~ ~ti a~ 1 ~jh~aut ~~ Td .. ~ _. ~+1 _ ~ t .. ~ °>» ,. , `~''Y.~ ' ~' ( ~ F ~ ~: ~ ,.,' ~~ f r"„ r* ,~ , r rr. p+~., ; "fir ~# w~ ~ ,, 7 ^ 4 S <~ t~~ ~ ~. s ,. .~ ~~.~'~~ ~ . ~ . ~ ~ ~~ fir. ~~. ~~ , ,-;. ~t . ~. t : , t~ , t ~ , r ~~~~ ` r'" ~ E y R ~ t' ,; .. ~ _ , , 4 fY. ~' ~; ~ : . ~k ~ ~~ ~ ~~ - r ~: ~ ~~ : ~ ~a~~, ~ ~ L} ~ * . C ~. , ' h ~P _, t5 ~~ xT , f , „~ ~, ,~ yF ~ .~~ ~ ~'~` , ~t ~ ~;. M'-ti 1 9 -~' . ~~,~ ,, ~~ ~~~. 1,. ` .Qr~ sH zz. f ;a , ~ » ~. .~~ ~ ~ ,~__, , ; , ~„ ~; ~* ~ ~ r `yf 3 - . .,, ~ .~ , ~ _ ~ ~~' ~ ~ t j ~ ~ x i -" x ti ~ . ~ f ;_ ". ~. r. ~~~~~' r ~: }~5* r~ : ` ~ ~, . '; ~: ~: 'Yf4 ,.y^, t~.2 r.~ >< ~ '~ vT~~'~„~ , 15 ~ ~ Y ~~ 'ly~i t', ~r ~~ 1 ~ ~'~x+Fi ~- `~ ~~'~ ~', J~ ' f r t, a r ~Rl rv N~ !} „ . .. Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 52 of 74 left we have two yards with a fence down the middle and with a direct fireplace vent. Let's go to the next one, Steve. Right here are a couple bump-outs with both windows and seats. On the left, there is a window, a bay window, as well as a fireplace vent. On the right -- I had a hard time trying to figure out what this was, but it's on the second story and I think they bumped out in a bathroom. Let's go to the next one. This was a good point raised by staff. This is a side entry garage. This garage is 15 feet from property line. Staff recommended that we put windows in those and I think that's a great suggestion. It's going to add some -- instead of having a blank wall there, you will have anice feature of a window and all the ones that we have been involved with we require those windows. We found out that a lot of people just put blinds in there or some other type thing. This here -- you both have a living space and a front porch in front of the garage. The last one same thing here where you have living space and porch in front of the garage. What we are really trying to accomplish here is some flexibility in the design, with all these features, to give some flexibility to both the builders and in some cases the lots are a little bit smaller lots that allows them to do some things that adds some variety to these structures. One thing that wasn't -- that wasn't addressed in our amendment and it wasn't brought up to me -- I didn't really think about it myself until someone mentioned it, and it's on the third page of my handout there and what would be the fourth column over, where it says interior side, five feet per story. I personally have been in here with two applications, both Conditional Use Permits in the last year, we will have another one coming forth, and there have been a variety of these asking for deletion of that additional five feet per story. A couple of pictures that we showed you tonight were two-story structures, 10 feet apart. I want to note that it's not in violation of the Uniform Building Code or the Uniform Fire Code, as well as the International Codes. It wasn't -- we didn't request this, but we put it forward to your consideration to do with as you might to eliminate that requirement for the additional five feet per story in the R-4, R-8 and R-15 zones, just allow a five foot setback period and not have an additional setback per story. Just for note, we have discussed this with the Building Contractors Association, with a number of builders, as well as other developers and the City of Meridian and they are all supportive of this. I think it will add some variety to the structures, instead of having just blank walls you will have some undulations and other design features such as that. I put this forward for your consideration to adopt what is on this three-page document, as underlined or scored through. This does include the staffs comments. We are supportive of the comments that staff made and also put for your consideration the elimination the requirement for the additional story per additional floor -- or additional five-foot setback per story. I'll stand for any comments you might have. Centers: Mr. Wardle, does this application come forward based on a recent application approved by the Council and this Commission? A project? Wardle: It does not. It's something we have considered for some time. It's one -- another project we are working in, we have looked at it, it doesn't relate directly to any one project, we just feel that it would be beneficial to the entire city, instead of going, Conditional Use to Conditional Use, to provide some opportunities for all that are building homes. - ~,. 1, .J! .F ;.s ~1- "~, ~.~~ ~ , ,~: ~.j' ~E . S A*~ 1~ 5,~~1A ~ C ,'~~ ~~ rr L ra~ii *#fW ~~)~ ~.~ - i ~','.-: 7~ptw srr ;;="'~., ~j,Yzr,'bt*~,¢..f '~.~ h~ { ,~. trz 4.1' ~r .q' ~~ ' .4"{ { y° - ~. ~~= at a'Y j ~ 1 a t f ~~.'y ~~~~~~, . 1>1t~'~'r 4 f .. ~ ':fv y, _ r ' ~ !4 i x/~ ' .ter irk d ;.. Nr 1' ,d ~ 4 Y tow "'~ - ~ c. ; ~~k t ;.;.r ~4 ,. H ' ~4 : Z ~ 5 ,c ' - r ~ L ~ .+.~ a~ a1 -„} r - .t ;,~ Sk G ~ ~,.f t~S .4~3 m Mtyt. 11'. Y~tYbi~.YY.~: ,~n'A'~`'~s '~'R'r-.~'~' rL t~;' s lT .. ^I~f~ ~~,~,;'4.,f~~~3~-' 't~ ~_ :~,~ ~ w ~ ,~m ~ 1 .C,ts`y ,po ~ ~ ~ i r '`ti?N~ r i~'z~' , c v ~ _ ,,a,y a 1 t ~ x , a. a a ° ` z `fix ~9 ~i~~ ;k ~.,'h r aAa +iyw~-~~~ t3 - C '#~ri~"-:~; °~ ""~%^~arr~A~k rj r~, , r~`8; t ia. f 'v~Y'»' `~~v°~ .~• ,!'~ ! ~ ( ~.. I '~ if .:r,. ~i,. t !~ ~ '~ ~ 1 ,her. ~`~pF j i ';,i'f,._ - ~ _~. t ~. W,j t r~ ', ~~ ..~ F S ,'`rI t,4s .~-~ l r~• , ~ ~~. ~ xti~d ~U~ µ b i~ °' z .. er_~ _ ... #f i yy _. ~yT f - y .uu L~.4 X54 Y4~, `' Y ~ '3W t ~~:~~ h. ~h w Ci'. :oqs 1F :ir wr ka~• :br ti-~! R q i 3' ~1.. r x {~~' F g 7~j `y t "r ,, ~ ~ ` arm t ~'~~'.b~~~[ ~i'r~ ". ~ ." ~ }r .h ~ S} ~~ ar s ~?; Meridian Planning & Zoning ~- ~ " December 5, 2002 Page 53 of 74 ~_ Centers: And then relating to the Chairman's comment and neighboring cities to the east, Boise doesn't have asimilar -- you mentioned Garden City, a subdivision that they ;~ ~ had allowed it, but what is Boise's present requirement? ~~: Wardle: Mr. Centers, this very much reflects what the City of Boise allows ~' Centers: Day in and day out or on a CUP? ~~ ~.,-, Wardle: Day in and day out. {:: ~,~ Centers: You don't have their guidelines handy? ~k ~: Wardle: We looked at Boise City's guidelines and kind of looked at what they had and ~~` this is almost verbatim. I don't know if Commissioner Boru has that much ex erience :~:~' P p R;~~ ;' with these types of things in the City of Boise. I can provide a copy to staff tomorrow, ~_ r ` but what the City of Boise allows is similar to what -- very similar to what we are asking a r"'' fnr harA ~:.~> 4~r, ~= '~ °;. Centers: Including the side setbacks? You know, I tend to agree with the Chief and then your picture, wow, you know, how are you going to get in there? It looks like those ~~ ~ two buildings -- if you had a good fire in one, you're going to have a fire in the other one. I mean it's going to be too hot and you're going to have a fire in the other home. Does ~~~~ Boise go along with that? k:` `. Wardle: Boise does. Boise does not have arequirement -- an additional setback requirement in what you call your single-family zones, which would be R1-A, R1 -- should say R1-B and R1-C. It's five feet, doesn't really matter how many stories you have, if you get into amulti-family situation with apartments, they do require an ,, ~:` additional setback, but in your single-family residential it's five feet. ~'`~ Centers: Even with the two stories? Wardle: Even with the two stories. Centers: Five feet period? =`~: ~ Wardle: Five feet period. ~. ~a Y. ;~~ Borup: In all zones? `j Wardle: I would say it's the R1-B and R1-C zones. I don't think the R1-A, which is like two units per acre, that -- I couldn't tell you for sure, but I know most definitely in R1-B ~~ , and R1-C it's five feet -- five foot setback on the interior sides. ~s ~~ ~~ ~ ~ Mathes: When the homes are this close do they require a firewall? ;~ . ~~ , ~':~~~ ,~~~~4, 9~e~ ~ ;ICY,-`:~..., _ ~'~ 4 ~'r~. ( ~C~'. tr .. ~ r~~ Al,k 1F,71~ i'~4". ~A ,, . "' Meridian Planning & Zoning ~. December 5, 2002 r '~' Page 54 of 74 ~~'~ Wardle: The don't. Actuall ,the Uniform Buildin Code and the Uniform Fire Code will .c<-~ Y Y 9 allow you to go to a three-foot setback with six feet between structures with no "~=' additional fire penetrations required. You wouldn't have to do anything with you ~' k windows you wouldn't have to increase the size of the wall, if I'm not mistaken. I have - got it right here. Kind of hard to read and it took me a lot of time to go through that, but ~~~~ that's the -- Centers: So let's jump back to Boise. You said two units per acre. Wardle: Yes. ~;~ Centers: If you had -- maybe that jumped right over my head. If you had two units per acre -- Borup: That's what he's saying they don't have it reduced on those. r;~-. Wardle: I think it's very similar to your R-2 and your R-3 zones that you have here, seven and a half feet. In those -- in that type of density people like a little more space, they are not -- they don't fill the footprint, let's put it that way. With a project like -- that we have done -- that we have proposed in the past, you use up a lot of that space, because you're dealing with smaller lots, so in the less dense zones -- Centers: I think it's very attractive what you can do. I really do. Are you able to -- the side setback is a big thing to you, more so than the front and rear; correct? ,:; Wardle: The five-foot Centers: You wouldn't be able to live without the side setback, if that were eliminated? ~~'~~ Wardle: You mean the bump outs? ~~.~ t Centers: Yes maintain the present code for side setbacks and give you front and rear and then you satisfy the Chief, too. ~ Wardle: Actually, if you read closely the Chiefs letter, the very last sentence says -- ,.:, °'1 -. ~1 ,.,, ,_:.. ~:: ~; Centers: Yes comply with the -- Wardle: I don't want to discount his concerns. Centers: Right. Wardle: Based on my experience -- Centers: But it's the side setbacks you really want? l~~ - a. .r ,~ , ~ ,a ~x } ~~~ ~ , ,a ~.~~w~~ ~. ,~~~`~ r `s -- ki ~o,v ~~~ ~ t"C~~x`c ; K ? ~r i ,-t ~ _! ~' ~ ~tiS' ~+"~'"` ~ ~~~ r ;1.5;.~ "3 .~ - . ~t 1j ~~ ~ J~r~ p: ! ~ ~-i~~ ` a t ~, - ~~4 7$•. -~~, u r a i ,.~ r.. ~~~ ~~~ Q '1~~f" }. ~4 S w ~l~n ~'',' r~~ ~°-:? 4 ~, j *r _. r r +c ) F '~" :p. ~t ~k,. ~- .. ~ r: 'S- • Meridian Planning & Zoning - December 5, 2002 '~`~`'' Page 55 of 74 "'" Wardle: Well, I think it's the combination of all those. I don't know that -- `, Centers: What you're saying is you would like that reduced -- the two-story, five-foot per story, you would like that eliminated. Wardle: Correct. Centers: To five feet period. Siddoway: Mr. Chairman? If I may, Mr. Centers, I believe it's not so much the -- that `' the side setbacks are the most important, it's just that the side setbacks are the only ~`,~` thing being contested. I think the front and the rear are very important to them as well, but we are not contesting that at all. The only issue that's being contested is this ;, separation on the side, so that's why it's being addressed more. - ~ A Centers: Yes and that's why I'm zeroing in on the side setback, if they can live without ~, any change in the side setback, would they still be happy or fairly happy. Wardle: I think we'd like it all. Centers: Well, I know that. That's why I said fairly happy. <;~2~ Wardle: Fairly happy? Borup: I was thinking more of the aspect of design and just on small lots and that's my ~'~~ question, is how much this is necessary is an R-4 zone. t Centers: That my thought, too. Borup: On a small lot the side yards are not usable space for a homeowner. The more the building can inject into that or use up that space, the larger their backyard is and ~~~, that's where the family wants to spend their time, not -- the side yard really has -- ~~ Centers: Yes. I agree. There was one project that I was thinking of recently approved - >~~ - or a few months ago, where it probably, with the small lots and the neighbors don't use ~~ their yards anyway and the side becomes wasted, where it probably would be very -w helpful, but I just couldn't see the need in an R-4. .N ~; Borup: That's my only question on -- Centers: Is R-4 and R-8 and R-15. ~:'.` ;, Wardle: Maybe we can compromise in R-8 and R-15. ~~ Borup: Well, Ithink -- does the idea of the projections in the R-4 still make sense? I think the only question we've got here is the five-foot per story, in my mind. a ~- .. 4 ~ ~ ,~ ~ _ - t~j i' ',~j :wa, ..,.:~ 3~ 2 ~ r'~~ ti'a ~~ rye FJ~'S~Z''~~ e,r? 4.. . .._ ~? ~. ~~~ ~;.' Y k ~ ti ~~ ~ ~~ ~ < ~ fit, "~r~~~ x~ ~;`3 y, 1 ;~, , ~~Fx -~" ~'~ '~" -,, <, ~` fr^Fti~ -~ ~~ ~ .;~ :~ ~ ;s~ ;~ ~ ~''~~ ~' '`'' ;ice s ~. > .., 'r.) < - - ~ ~•_ ~ ti ~~ - _ r p~~tr ^~.., r ~ w s1 .~ tt..,~ ~~ - "t.c~. ~ i }G l " ty ~}~- ~~ • ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning a~ r December 5, 2002 Page 56 of 74 ~~{ Centers: Yes. ;, S;-., Borup: You know, the side entry garages, which you can't --aside entry garage on a ~;: 50-foot lot is not oin to work an g g yway. It's not going to happen so these narrow lots with side entry garages aren't a factor anyway. It's got to be the larger lots to do that. *~,~~,~ You've got to have a turning zone but having those with a 50-foot setback, again, that allows maybe a little more room in the back yard. =`~_ Centers: What had the staff thought about five-foot per story? Did you want to leave j4' that in place? Was that --without me re-reading this? .,f ~,~, ~' Siddoway: Well, it actually wasn't addressed initially in the proposal, so it's not ~`~'' addressed in the staff report. It just kind of came up tonight. Centers: Do you want to address it now? Siddoway: Sure. I certainly think there could be a problem with it, if we allow it to be fenced down the middle. If we leave it as five-foot per story per the current ordinance, '~~ you know, they can always still request it as -- as he mentioned, several other projects ~E;:~y have requested and been approved for that reduced setback through the Planned t ry ` Development process. You know, that would still be available, and then we could put other conditions like the fencing in those conditions of approval. Centers: The Fire Department's letter was not based on knowing that, the five-foot per story being eliminated. Wardle: That's correct. Like I said, that was a very last minute thing that was brought up to me this evening, so -- -'~ ~ Centers: Right. Wardle: If I can defer to David Turnbull, who both develops, builds and has a little more knowledge on this than I do if you're through with me. Borup: Well, we may have some more questions, but go ahead, Mr. Turnbull. Centers: It doesn't look like you're going to have a lot of competition for the microphone. ~.. ~' `~_ Turnbull: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is David Turnbull, my T - address is 12426 West Explorer Drive in Boise. This ordinance revision is a result of ~~'~~ conversations that I and I think a number of other builders and developers have had ~k with your staff over a couple of years, actually. This goes back a little while. We have ~'`'' all pretty much been in agreement that, you know, it would be nice to have some :~.' ~~3:r~ consistency between jurisdictions. We develop a lot in Boise and Meridian and we have -:-~ a lot of builders that build with us that build both in Boise and Meridian. It becomes a S':.~~ ~' : : t 5 t ~t$! ~ ~~~~~~ .,...„-....1` .. .... ~.-~, ;: f • r~' Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 ~~" Page 57 of 74 _, little bit confusing when you have one set of standards over here and one set of ~.; ~. ~' standards over here, so that the plan you developed over say, for instance, in our Harris '~' Ranch project, can't necessarily be built over in our Heritage Commons project in ~'''-` Meridian. The Heritage Commons project may be the one that Commissioner Centers ~~j was thinking of. It was a project that was approved last spring that is just being paved ',' out now and construction will begin soon. We did request in our Conditional Use Permit ,~ ~'` for those reduced setbacks but as we did that, you know, every time we do those things, r~ , "''r` it -- you know, it just came back to the conversation that I have had for a couple of years with the staff is why don't we get something done about this in the ordinance. We finally ~;*,k -- I finally called Mr. Wardle and I said let's get something on the table and let's see if ~° ;;' we can get this thing resolved. It's important to us, because it provides consistency with ~' us and the builders and the city between jurisdictions in which we build. If it's important, ~'. as Mr. Borup -- Commissioner Borup can understand. If you have developed a set of plans and they work in one city, but don't work in another, that becomes a costly venture ~~?:~, L-:,_ to change those every time you move between cities. It's important to cost effective i<'' ~' construction, quite frankly, and it's also -- and it's important to create more interesting ~'"'=' and esthetically pleasing architecture with your building. I think you can see by ~'''` ~~ ~ :a~ . incorporating some bay windows and some projections, instead of, you know, if you ~ have a rule that just says your setback is this, then the builder will tend to maximize to ~~ that setback and you will have a flat wall across that setback. That's not only on the ,.. ~`~~ • interior side yard setbacks, that can be on the corner side yard setbacks and so you're ~' not able to create a projection with a bay window or a fireplace or something like a ~'r porch or something like that. It would create boring architecture, in my view. It's also a r_- ;. necessary component -- we have come forth and I'm Co-Chairman of this North ~: ;: Meridian Area Planning effort. This is one of the components that would be an Y' _: important part of that effort, we have just chosen to bring this forward a little early now `° and get this on the table and see if we can get it adopted. It really doesn't affect us right now, because, like I said, the projects that we have approved in Meridian have had ;'' those setbacks approved with a Conditional Use Permit, we just think it would be -- _~~~ make sense to have them available without a Conditional Use Permit. There was some z~: ` confusion about difference zones between Boise City and Meridian City. Essentially, :>, the equivalent zones to an R-4 and R-8 in Meridian would be the R1-B and the R1-C in `:° Boise and in the R1 -- I believe -- and I -- without having the code here in front of me it's '~`' hard to sa . Like Mr. Wardle said, those R1-A is more like a -- in Boise Ci y ty is like a large, large lot subdivision so it's not really applicable to the R-4 or the R-8 that you have in Meridian. I don't know if --does Meridian have a density less than R-4? ~ti, ~ ':;~. ~; :;~: {,I ~Y~l, Y~! Siddoway: We do have an R-2 and an R-3. Turnbull: Okay so the R1-A would still be similar to those. It is not only permitted in Boise City and Garden City, it's -- you know, as was mentioned before, it meets all the fire codes. It meets all the Building Codes and the Fire Codes and I think that if it's been a problem in Boise City, it would have been revoked by now. You know, I know that Fire Departments have to state their concerns, they always do. As I told Mr. Siddoway before the meeting, if they got their way we would be building streets a hundred feet wide and probably have 30-foot setbacks. We go by what the codes say, e i til RTF~ar .:-i3?'.' #.. _.. pyi sY. ,s:>i:k.: t ia~« ~e ~'' w.x '-~~.~€, ~;~. .~4 r5M . •s ~t ,~`k rP ~8b`,, _ - ' s s L~4,[I,+~ 'A ,~ ~,/ '+~~a E _ h ~~~ r. lr] t ~„1~~. t• ' ~ y~ x ~~,+~ F .~- ~r ~~~ ~ ~ }- T ~~. .;.~ `a 4 }L"y. ,may r:.,. t~4 tfy - - 1 i1fr ~, ,~ j t r ~yyyrppp~~~"... ~. ~ ~ ,. h~ _ .. i<'_i 6G„ `emu xf~ ~ ,,. ~, L 1. ~~ ~}~?` Meridian Planning & Zoning ~;': December 5, 2002 Y=;' ` Page 58 of 74 the Building Codes are crafted with the public safety in mind, and so we feel like that, if ~~ it meets the code, then there is no reason not to allow it. That's what I would present to this Commission. If you have any questions for me I will be happy to answer them as „ . best I can. Centers: Very good. Borup: Apparently, there has not been a concern from Boise Fire Department on -- Turnbull: We routinely build homes just like you saw in those pictures. A lot of pictures came from our Harris Ranch project. ~'-' Borup: My thought was if there is a major fire, does 10 feet make any difference on the next building? L; V. , Centers: I don't think they have experienced it. Right? n ~~ Wardle: I can't remember ever seeing a news report of one fire -- of fire spreading from -.,<4: -., one house to another house in the Treasure Valley in -- well, I cannot remember when, ~~~ so #.. ;~__. ~'~'~ Rohm: I wasn't there, but I'm not sure that the setback is specific to fire only. I mean "°~ there is esthetics that is involved in setbacks as well. To your comment about ~~ ~'-'~ consistency between jurisdictions, I don't know that that's necessarily germane either. >'= mean in my mind, if Meridian wants to have a separate set of standards for their '; development from that which is available to you in Boise, then, that's as it should be. F3.~. That's why each community has their own personality and those are just general F -:. comments about -- in reference to your presentation, but -- ~.,: ''''~_ Turnbull: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Rohm, I don't disagree with that. I would say {`°a that when we are talking about setback issues, for instance, in a Boise City R1-A, if they ~'" require a greater setback, it's not because of fire considerations, it's because they have s~~^ created a large lot subdivision ordinance and they may have chosen to go with greater setbacks for reasons other than Fire Code issues. It has nothing to do with Fire Code, s:. because it meets all the uniform or International Building Code Requirements. I guess I ~~~~ would also say in answer to your question, we have been encouraged -- and I think we ~``~= have, with planning staff here is some real vision for what it wants to create in the ~~i~~k 'A°" Meridian area. That is to create something different and than what we saw through the '90s and part of that would have a new urbanism appeal and to get many new urbanism _, :.: appeal, these are the kind of requirements that are necessary to make that happen, °`~~=~ which you don't have these kinds of code modifications. You will see less, rather than `~``_ more, and you won't get what the city staff has been trying to encourage us to build, you ~;~~ will get less, so -- Rohm: I like the offsets for sure. I mean that adds character to the structure and doesn't appear to be a significant compromise to the intent. ~;. ~~ ~~''' ;b.~ ~` .;;~~i ~V h l a.~ 1~ .Y-N 1yn .. ~t t t ~; r• c 'a -'~ ds ~~; s,'rr m~ ?-~. x ~~xS w 1 t; ~ ~k r ~ ~'-;i ~~ '~ ~:3 .7 4~ y A.,: ti § r7 t \~ ~ ~~+ ~~ ~ ~ t ~f 'f."r , 4 ~ 5yv ; " ~) 4 ;4 ~ t •', 2 zH Y~~ - .w~~MXa'. ,.... `'F~ r r T!: ~.G'~3~a,4~, ~. ~~~ ~ i Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 3- ~ ` Page 59 of 74 Turnbull: I would say this is a picture of our Harris Ranch project and I was telling Mr. f. Siddoway -- or Mr. Freckleton, actually, before the hearing started, I'm not more proud -- °`` I couldn't be more proud of what we have created here. I mean it's compact lots -- `'``~ those are 32-foot wide lots that you see right there, those are 22-foot wide homes, and, yet, they are very interesting and they are very functional. They are not little homes. Those are 1,800 to 3,200 square foot homes and they work very well but it's not for the ~~r" guy that wants a big back yard either. It's for the person that wants a minimum of yard .z.. '`"' maintenance and provides other amenities where they can go play in a park or a tot lot or somewhere else, instead of having everybody have their own park in their own back ~=j•-`~~` yard. It's a different concept than maybe what some people want, but it is a viable -s , concept. The people that live in here, you would be hard pressed to find a for sale sign in here. They move into it, they love it. F Rohm: It seems to me that this ultimately boils down to an issue on the R-1, R-2 -- and :~. I don't -- I'm new to the Commission, so you will have to bear with me here a little bit. It ~ ~~ ~ + seems to me that the smaller lot subdivisions this would be more applicable to and the ~{ ~, larger the lots become, the less applicable the setback Variance request would be. Is that kind of the gist of the thing? Turnbull: That's correct and we haven't requested it in your larger lot subdivisions, we are only talking about R-4, R-8, and R-15 here. ", Rohm: Okay so it's specific to zones within the residential? Turnbull: Yes. These are zones where you get quarter of an acre lots or smaller. Centers: Okay. Zaremba: I would first state that I'm very much in favor of the increased densities, I can ~-n; think of a lot of the transportation needs, even a few of the North Meridian Area ~~; "~' Meetings and we do need to be going, one, towards greater densities and, two, towards '; greater variety of product, if that's what you want to call it. My discomfort is probably at `4~ the R-4 zone. We keep whittling away at the size of the lots and the size of the houses by allowing smaller lots, but reducing the setbacks so we can get still the same size "~ house on a smaller lot. I'm not swayed by the argument that we should come down to ~.~ the level of Boise just to make the two jurisdictions equal. I could be convinced to do ~` .- this, probably, in R-8 and R-15, but I'm very uncomfortable packing any greater density r'~'' into R-4, particularly when you consider the development gets a 25 percent, you know, `~_"~ increase at the point of development and I think the open space is important. It's only ` one argument to say this was a fire issue. I think it's also an esthetics issue. The space '<<~ between the houses in an R-4 zone is important to preserve. If you need it denser, I ~`" don't have a problem saying it should be an R-8. ;;~: F. ~' Siddoway: Mr. Chairman? ~1 ~~ ;I 4~ s •. r.~ F , .;, L ~' . , L~•..~5.~ n..._.....:: s ~ ...:It, ~. a ~ . ,3'. a~. a I ~ ~ I ....i~ fi i . ..k. ~. a ~ s. ~ ~ ~ J ~~J'G41;i. .i ,__ G i~~ s . ~ x ' r 7t. s ry;~ fi i,v, ~ y vitf~4 i , ~.. ~. , r%?. ~"~ ~~~~ ~i ~. ~,~„ r r`.r'~-~ ~. .~ :hf' s ``fS %.~3il.~'d ~' "~,* ~ts~; F. x?`s~~>i f~..: .e.~.' 'p" ~' "rte'. } ra ~~~ ~ -' r ~~ ., ~. ~ -. _ _ f f'~ ,tau Y1 +, r ;~ T ~_~: a r^~c ~.~ ~. {~ ~~ r i- • • Meridian Planning & Zoning ": N.' December 5, 2002 Fes:` Page 60 of 74 \' Zaremba: You seem to resist wanting to go to a higher zoning just to get more houses ~~, in a smaller space and my feeling is rather than keep chipping away at R-4, just call it ~~~ an R-8 and -- Siddoway: I was just going to point out that that could work, given that a lot of our ~~~~f' . residential areas on the Comprehensive Plan are medium density residential. By ''' definition, that corresponds to an R-4 or an R-8 zone so someone interested in doing yY~ ~: this could request an R-8 zone, where someone wanting to do something with the wider setbacks could do an R-4. >~'~". Zaremba: Which is why my suggestion would be that we leave R-4 alone and I could e:~;~"" support this kind of idea for R-8 and R-15, I believe. ~~._. .~ Borup: And I had some of the same concerns about the R-4, but sitting here and ~~ listening, I was thinking about it, and your concern about chipping away on R-4, that's '`''' not going to change that. It's minimum 80-foot frontage and 8,000 square foot. That's :; ~; ~ not changing, unless someone's requesting a Planned Development on that. ,~~, _ . Centers: Right. '~ Borup: So the lot sizes aren't going to get any different. The only thing it would add is making larger houses, I guess. Centers: That's what Iwas -- and I was thinking the same thing, the forest for the trees. ~~'~ Give them R-4 give them R-2 -- what's the other one R-3? Yes. What are you going to do, build a 10,000 square foot house with overhangs and they have a 10-foot sidewalk - - or setback? No, you're not. I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's just a common sense thing. -; Borup: And the other thing that probably it's going to affect what's developed is the ~~ marketplace. Centers: Exactly. <; Borup: If the homebuyers don't like the 10 feet between two-story homes, they are not - going to buy there, and there is a lot of people that don't. You can't force them to do that, as long as there is competition out there for them to go somewhere else. I think the developers realize that and to do a project that doesn't sell doesn't happen the ». second time, usually. ~~n<<: Centers: I agree with Commissioner Zaremba that high density in projects like this would be nice and reduce traffic and what have you, but, totally, it's a marketing ~ °'" situation. Can you get them to buy it? I mean those have probably done well, but if it ~<<_ ~. ~._ were a -- you know, 75 percent of the development around Meridian and Boise, then, • , no, I don't think there is that much demand for it, is there? No, there is not so it's -- you .~~' ~ know, it's limited and -- but in thinking about it, too -- and I'm sitting here thinking about ~~,; ,i ~; ~~~~~. r _ :. t ~, ~: Y ,.. SYA r; '~; ~i.l S Z"..ice ~ ~: rr g4~`s r ~r :eft ~ {A ~'•~~, ~? 7 .y t «< '.'t~.~,.~.., ty~p~~'~[j J 1'~yp 4'b ~'-I.j~f J •``15 d^ ! ~r ~-~ 1 .?i f ~~: r - _ 1 Two r ('.. Vr~7~st ~. :. r e YFa e ~,_ &~ Y~ ~ Pmt ~ - 4z....~" r~,~ 7r,. _. j.: ~i ~~ 4 ~ 5q~ k ~._ ;~, ~ ~ ~ . ~a~ pis ~ ~~' .~ f {~ _ t C '~1 Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 61 of 74 =` ~~~. .k:: ;: _~ '~~~? ~:; ; ~~~~ the Fire Chief, the side setbacks and the staff will agree. I don't always agree with them, but in this case, if the staff feels -- and that's why they are paid -- if the staff feels that they would support this and they agree with it, then I have got to support it. That's what they are paid to do. Now, where it's an opinion thing, their opinion against mine and I don't agree -- I don't think this is an opinion situation, I think we are trying to get uniform here and it's not because Boise has it or Garden City and make it easy -- it does make it easier for the builders, but I think if the staff feels that it makes sense, then let's do it. That's the way I feel about it and they know that I don't always feel that way. Borup: I guess maybe I'm repeating myself, but back to what Commissioner Zaremba said on the R-4. I was thinking maybe it would be appropriate to exempt from that, but I just -- I don't think it's going to come up that often. Most of the homes are probably not going to -- it's not going to be a factor and so I don't know why it makes sense to restrict it on something that's probably not going to be a big factor. It could make some interesting designs on some of the -- Mathes: I believe I live in an R-4 and I would have gone -- I would have moved my house five feet over one way. Borup: That would give you more room on the other side. Mathes: I would have more room on the other side, so I can put an RV, a boat, or a camper. Borup: That is a big factor. Mathes: I wouldn't make a bigger house. Borup: So that ends up with maybe some more room. Mathes: Yes. Borup: And the neighbor would probably do the same thing and you would end up with just as just space between homes anyway. Mathes: Yes. Zaremba: You mean a zero lot line on one side and -- Mathes: No five feet and then you have 15 on the other. Right now, we have 10 and 10. It's kind of hard to get a boat in 10 feet, but 15, and then I could actually back it in. Centers: I guess we are discussing our thoughts, whether or approval or whatever, but I'm in favor of everything proposed, other than that five-foot per story, because it was a last minute thing and I would think the applicant would be better prepared when it goes ,'u ~~' :r r ,x~ -~ `:. ~<;'e]~~ll~~f '-xAYi 5.:.%?~ i } ;a i' ~~ i' k.. T~ ~t .M r. f sr }F `~ ~l~5 f! f aof,4iy~ q n;&S ~~ ~' ~;~ , ,, x '- '%h as s 4tv-. ~~Sf; ~5, 7~ -i J ~ 1 i ~{ ` •~ _~ ..t~.4. ~ .. • Est; ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning ': '~"' December 5, 2002 ~~~ ~~` ~' Page 62 of 74 x. _:::. to Council and let them decide that issue. That's the way I feel about it. It was last a~~`:= minute to staff and I put Steve on the spot and -- ~_,,.,. "`` Turnbull: Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Centers, I apologize for that. I guess when we approached this we were trying to create some uniformity. That's just one of the things ~~~` that was in a table, actually, and not in the text, that we overlooked the strike-through _'~ on. It was pointed out when we came into this meeting we forgot to do the strike- /i~' through on the table and -- when we were concentrating on the text so my apologies for ~~~', that. Borup: That was your intention -- '_:~ Turnbull: Correct. ~~`;~ Borup: --originally? Turnbull: Correct so I don't follow -- I don't know how you want to choose to deal with that. If you want to forward it onto the City Council for them to consider it, but not make any action on it yourself, at least as far as that goes -- I don't know how you have to deal with that, but we would be happy to address it in a little bit prepared detail at City Council for sure. Centers: Yes and, Mr. Turnbull, at that time the staff would have commented on it when &j it's presented to the Council, if you present it that way, and they will have it in their comments at that time, which they don't now. Borup: And to me that's probably the only -- in fact, I don't know that it would be -- I don't know. In my mind, it makes a lot of difference for this Commission's consideration Er whether we would have had it before or had it tonight. We still have a chance to think ~`~ about it and discuss it, but I don't know -- and I assume staff, when you review these °: ~ things, it's more -- I mean you sit down as a group on some of these type of things or -- "~~ guess it depends on the application, but -- k~ , Siddoway: I was going to say -- never mind. I would -- I think I would address this issue one way or another. If it -- if we take the tact that we are not going to address it here, but staff should prepare a new amended staff report for City Council, with no "~-~ recommendations from P&Z on that issue. Then, they are likely to remand it back to ask what P&Z's opinion of that is, so -- Borup: That's probably true. ~ Centers: I didn't know they respected us that much. ~., Zaremba: They actually listen to us. Centers: I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with it either way. ~~,: ,.~,w~.~,e a,,.. ,~: ~ ~+~~- F .3 y~y~ ( 'r y fii'i .,. i11~i N. 3Yj 7~ } ~`. ~ z ~,~. ~~~~ ~,,,s~s , h:o, .-',tat ~,r;.^ e; ~~~, ~ .{rat ..f P1K ~~J ~~ I J' M1 1 ~ ~ ~,~ ~ ~, Cy~~~ c'1tF. Y L~.:v1i.Y J ~.X. "~Yy'e h +ss ,-, ~y 1 i "t' AYt~'~ t 4.yJ~ F, '~U 7~_. ~~~ ~~ ~ 4 ?ilk ~. }.,YJ[ t '~ r ~,ur ~ }.- '~+.~fifixr ~ r ` 4:,.! s ~ Fmk ' ti4 t~~~ ~ t°~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ti~ ~,~,,, ,,,_ ~_,. ;_ 4 e~~, Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 "" Page 63 of 74 ``~~ Zaremba: I think my opinion on the five-foot per story setback is I would rather leave it :~,.~' ..~~ that way and hear each individual exception. I'm not comfortable with making a blanket ~~- five-foot setback, regardless of the number of stories. We are, eventually, going to start ~: having three and four and five story projects come. I hope so. We need -- I mean that's the way to get density is to go up and if we have eliminated the five-foot per story .``_ requirement, we are going to started having, I hope, some tall buildings, but I don't hope <a;:;< "~~` ` are too close together. Rohm: Well, I think that there is a lot of thought put into it when that variable was built ,tiy into the ordinance in the first place. I don't think it's -- through this meeting tonight is the ``''~ right way to address the removal of something that has been given a lot of thought in 4 the first place. I think we need to have an opportunity to re-look at that issue and from staffs position, as well as our own. Siddoway: One option would be to continue this to your second meeting this month. That would -- we could -- Centers: Why do we need to continue it? Siddoway: -- you know, address it in the staff report. r~' Borup: And send something onto City Council that's finalized and a clear recommendation. Centers: Let me ask again. Boise City, you know -- and Boise is not God and just because Boise does it, that doesn't mean we have to copy it, but -- but they have staff {L~;. and -- their side setback is five-foot regardless of the story. Turnbull: Correct and -- ,~:.~ Centers: In what zone? ~~'+~ Turnbull: I know that it is in the R1-C zone, which Harris Ranch is all R1-C and it's got everywhere from the 32-foot wide lot to the quarter acre even half-acre lots. ;;. ~ Borup: That's a PUD? ,. ' °!~~ Turnbull: Excuse me? -; .~ Borup: That's a Planned Development, isn't it? ,~. Turnbull: But it's all in the R1-C zone. It's all allowed in the R1-C zone but, you know, r.~-r- it's got planning and development for some nonconforming uses, like the commercial ~~ retail. Yes, I mean in answer to your question, in Boise within an R1-C zone, which ~' =:>I accommodates their -- basically, it's kind of a hybrid between your R-8 or your R-4. I mean it allows anything up to R-8. It's also the zoning for most of what you see would ~~ `~` i~ '~``_' `~; ;= a ' -:: .. t ~ ~ u ~:t P'' 4t ~ _ ~ y ~E ~.~~ f ~ 1 ,±~?n.~hi ,~w.~ ..,Y~~ { ., ~, 51 ri! Y ,. .4 ' .c;r ;~ cF 4 +ffn S.,,ii~~''iY' !Tr) ~ A • Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 64 of 74 :; .~ Y:~ As ,, n~ be in your R-4, so I never did say Boise was, you know, God, Ijust -- I just said that there is -- you know, if you can borrow ideas and -- Centers: Oh, yes. I totally agree. Turnbull: -- find things in one city, like Commissioner Zaremba said, you know, if you want to achieve higher density, there are things you have to do to achieve that. Now, conversely, if you want to go to the five-story buildings and things like that, those don't fit in these R-4 or R-8 or R-15 zones anyway. That's an entirely different zone that has an entirely different set of requirements. I think what we are addressing here is the kind of -- Centers: Well, I don't think this would be so bad. We pass it as originally proposed without that and then if you had atwo-story, you could go for a CUP for the last five- foot. Zaremba: I would still want to consider those and leave it in there. Borup: Do we want to go through this every time someone wants to do that? Zaremba: Yes. Centers: But then why? Borup: We have done it once or twice. Centers: I heard one Council Member tell me directly to my face what he really -- what the person really doesn't like is the CUP's, continually coming back to the CUP's, so -- Turnbull: Commissioner Borup, I think that if you can -- in answer to that question, if you can adopt some kind of standards here that don't require a CUP every time somebody comes in, it's going to cut down your homework, your paper work -- you know. If it makes sense, I guess our argument is we have come through in our last two or three projects and come through the CUP process and we have gotten it approved every time without any decent. I think people have liked what we proposed, all we are saying is if it works, why don't we just make it a standard that you don't have to go through the CUP process and maybe make it easier on everybody. Borup: Commissioner Zaremba, would you be more comfortable if it was exempted from the R-4, just on the setback, but the projections can still stay the same? Zaremba: I still have difficulty with eliminating the double punch of reducing the setback and then, in addition to that, allowing intrusions to take two more feet is very uncomfortable for me. Borup: Those are non-living area projections. :-,~-; ~~~'°{ ;. ~ r F ~ ~~'tk9 ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ .tLle i .~ ~µ,~ c fro,. . r .', m-n 1~~}~ `~ r,~ `< ~ ,{k ~' ;., t ~~. , n. • ~~:. Meridian Planning & Zoning q'~r t ~ December 5, 2002 Page 65 of 74 *~`~'~ Zaremba: Yes, but they still prevent the Fire Department from getting their ladders to _,~. ;:;~,~ ~`°~ ~ you and, two, the home owner from getting their mower through the narrow -- if they put a fence in, to narrow down the space. T``~ ° Borup: They don't do a riding mower. R <<~ '. ~~~; Centers: Yes. You can get a mower through, but not a riding mower. .~ Zaremba: You make it difficult to maintain. You know, the smaller it is, and the more -~''. tendencies it is to be a dead space, instead of have some attractive beautiful lawn there. I just -- Centers: You know, when we first sat down and started to hear this, I felt exactly the ~,~'; same way, until -- like we had an applicant earlier where you had your mind made up ~` and then you changed. What changed me was just sitting here thinking about it and that's to staff. They feel supportive of this, they are in favor of it, I think we ought to move it to Council and right now I'd like to close the Public Hearing. Borup: Well, I don't know if it matters if we close it yet, but -- Centers: But I've got to do it to make a motion. ;;.~ Borup: What's your feeling on the setback per story, then, when you say move it onto City Council? Centers: Are you talking to me? Borup: Yes, Commissioner Centers. Centers: I'm going right with staff. I'm going to eliminate the five-foot per story, I'm going to make that motion, and we will see where we end up. Borup: Just as originally presented. Okay. "'7 Centers: But - r~ Zaremba: I would state that if I'm going to object to your motion, it would be a very k;~ ~ro limited objection. I'm still uncomfortable with R-4 and I'm uncomfortable with the -- _,:, t~ "r~ Centers: The R-4 is -- ~.=`~i Borup: You mean the projections in the R-4? Zaremba: Giving up the five-foot per story. ,,. ` {' . ':. Borup: Well, that's what he just stated, that wasn't included. Isn't that what you said? ;~>~ ~f~~~~~~r.: ~~~~~; - ~- ~` w~ _~ ~~[- t :a~ ~, ~~ + , ;~„s 3 ~~, ~ ~~ {y ~ ~~~~ ~ y' ° lea Y~ ,. ,~ ~ ry}~ e. ,~ ~ ., ~~ r{' F' ~_ CS,. r~. 1 '<~ 1~ r' x S4 ~1 4~~~1 Ny, JI~. - T 'f~ } t4 J -4~ . Lr,y~ ~~:: YI F ~' a {~ y j?;. ~ 4~~~ yE~} •c ~ Y~Y ~ ~~ (y1: :~*t z r ~~ kf f+ ,eta ~,~1iisT., dt ~~~~~~~~ ~. . ~~e h ,~.,~~~, _. -~ R }, .i: ~. - } ~ ~:~~\ ~n:~-C~ ~~;'`~~ Meridian Planning & Zoning ~: f" December 5, 2002 Page 66 of 74 ~t Centers: Yes. Borup: That was not included? Centers: Yes. I'm going to include that. ~ti: ;.~: Borup: Okay. r'; Centers: That's my -- <<~ Borup: To include that in the motion? ~~ Centers: Right five-foot, period. Remove the word story. Because I think it's a ~':{'~ marketing situation, too. Totally marketing and the R-4 argument, Commissioner Zaremba, it -- if you really think about it, it doesn't really apply, you know, because -- Borup: I don't think too many builders would do that. Centers: Right. You got 8,000 square foot minimum lots. Most of the R-4 lots are even above that and, you know, you're not going to be -- you know, where it's really going to s apply is R-8 and R-15. At any rate, I move to close the Public Hearing. ~:. Mathes: Second. k~ Borup: Motion and Second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? ?; ~'~ MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES l.t- ~' Siddoway: Mr. Chairman? ~;. Borup: Mr. Siddoway. i Siddoway: I'm over here working it out in my mind thinking about this and I don't mean to muddy this more, but I want to jump over to the R-15 for a minute and just -- the proposed table on the yellow sheet handed out tonight doesn't have a maximum '~~ building height in R-15. I assume that's just simply an oversight. The ordinance -- E~:; Borup: This table is the existing table, isn't it? "~ Siddoway: For the most part. K,4 `~~ Borup: Or has it changed? ~r~ Wardle: That was the table that was found in the Amberstone Ordinance Amendment as provided to me by the City Clerk. ~:, ''., F Fy ~?31 r ? ^~ t ` ~'T ~~vv{ 't ~ N~ tl~ yff"r~f ~ ~ ~ -_ f, ~~. ~ i4 fl; ~ xis i ~,~ _ ~~t~t j,4 i.3 ( i ~' ~ k ~ s ~~j~~ ..~~' 'L.k bNx' ~ ~ - ~ ~ k s,- { 6 ~S t N ~ ~~« t . .' iq . ~~t ~'~+~ ~ :~ G 'i~~i t }.~ ~ ~`~ <4~ by . i~ 0. ~'~n ~ . ~'- t~ ~ ti7 TM_~~. ~;~ ~r=~~ ;~.~ ;, ` ,t,: ,~ ~~¢~ ~'~ t :~. ~ ~ t '~TT~ ~ ~ ~'"`~, ,- 6 ~ t:~ , yk,~ t ~: ~ ~ n' ~~~~ x` ,.~a ~ - ,c ~ € ~ ~ _, ~~ a` 1 Fir ~_ ~ '~ .i ~~~'~} n~ (.- d • s;;`;.` ° Meridian Planning & Zoning `` "' December 5, 2002 ;~;~; ~ez'a:~: Page 67 of 74 ~ ~ Borup: Okay. This is the existing -- '„ i ~~ ;: ~, ,. ::, fi __``~ _:,;~ TI _.. -" Siddoway: Well, R-15 is not addressed in the Amberstone Ordinance. Borup: Okay. Siddoway: The maximum building height in R-15 is 40 feet by the current ordinance, so worst case scenario, you know, you figure 40 feet is four stories -- Borup: Well, no, because that includes the roof, doesn't it? Siddoway: No. It does not. The definition in the Zoning Ordinance is to the top of the bearing wall. Borup: Okay. Siddoway: So worst-case scenario is two four-story buildings in R-15 set five foot off the property line. I don't know if you are ever going to see that. Borup: Is that why we have all these two and a half story buildings, supposedly? Well, Jon, we've closed the hearing, but -- unless we open it back up. There is no one else here. Really, most of all this is applied in R-8. Zaremba: Well, exclude R-4. Borup: Because there may be a few cases that it -- well, I think Leslie gave a good example of a -- how it can help. Centers: Steve could we -- could we say afive-foot side setback to a maximum of two stories. Above two stories would require -- what? A CUP or -- because, you know, that is farfetched, four stories five feet apart in an R-15, but -- Siddoway: In talking with the applicant, they are more -- mostly concerned with the R-4 and R-8 zones where they are truly single-family zones where you would do a project similar to the images you're seeing. I believe it was staff that added R-15. Centers: Okay so leave it as is for R-15, which has the 40-foot building height. Siddoway: You know, I don't mind the architectural projections being allowed in R-15 either, but maybe we should just leave the five-foot per story in the R-15. Borup: I guess -- I thought we were leaning towards -- Centers: Let me ask you -- the way I understand it, Mr. Wardle gave us this, which would be the verbiage that we could approve and send to City Council. Have you proofread it? Is it sendable? }~ r ,~ ~ti ~ ~~ f~~~* Yy "kY~ ~~~ '~ . ._,~ri ~ ~, ~.~fi ~ ;3~ ii~y k F'.~ 4 F. ~"~ ldY,.~ 2 ' ~`~ .~~ '.. r~~ . ~~~ 1 G~~~4 ~IC ly'~~ _~G '.?I i % ~' yi' ~ ,,r 'TSB ~21~~ ~~" :i ,~ t ~! t~ ~~~ s~ ~,~ s • i ,_ yr~,~~ ~t~~~~t~J. f' '~;K'SY u.a.,, - r U ~~i~s' - - r~ ~; ~ ~~ ~ ~i ~ ", ~ . , `, - ~~ s~ 7k«`~._ e,~r ~~~~ ,,~~ v.:~ 3rn _ y ,',,~ .it a +r a `~ .~ ~ f n 4 0 • ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 ,i Page 68 of 74 ~~i, Siddoway: I have not proof read it. I received it tonight. r~-: Centers: So then we should refer to your notes in a motion and staffs -- ;~,'. Siddoway: That would be fine. I mean we could -- basically taking his word that they ~` ' have been incorporated. I could skim it over quickly and -- ,: Centers: Do you think it would be fine to just utilize this for the motion? ~ Siddoway: I believe so. I can --give me two minutes to just -- Centers: Okay. Take two minutes, because Ithink -- Borup: The thing that I was just thinking -- has this Commission ever seen an R-15 ~;.~ project? Centers: I can't recall it. ^ Borup: I can't either. ~;' Centers: Where is that in the Comp Plan? That little piece that we looked at earlier next to -- Siddoway: Creekside Arbour is one. Borup: They are all apartment complexes. Siddoway: Yes. Borup: No single-family -- that's not asingle-family -- ~ ~ Siddoway: No. ~ ~E.~ Borup: -- type of project. We have had those. Either R-15 or R-40. Ithink they have all been multi-family -- same thing, multi-family projects. .' Centers: Well -- and just to keep talking here, because -- before we fall asleep but, you ,,~ ~ know, all of these ordinance changes that McKinnon has been bringing to us and that ~'"~~ a of thin >` typ g, you know, I'm interested, but I want him happy. I want staff happy and I ~~~:~;~ feel the same way about this. I really do. I'm not here to redraw ordinances and that f~ -~~ type of thing, especially when there is no -- not much Public Hearing involved. If the staff is behind it, then, I'm behind it. I have never contradicted McKinnon on any of those ordinances. Maybe a suggestion on verbiage and that kind of thing, but, still, I `'a ~1 don't want to be a proof writer either, you know. When he comes before us -- and this is the same situation -- you know, I don't want to proof read everything that he's done. _~, > ;`~' <:;x . ~. ~- , . ~ ~x s r `.i A ~ :~~ z `u~ r: :::fin' ~:~ ; r; • ,: Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 69 of 74 Tell us what you want to do, let's make a motion, and approve it because it is State Statute that we have to go that way. Borup: Well, that is also part of the charge of this Commission ;~ r ,~, : Centers: Yes. ~~~ Borup: Is to -- ~`~~ Centers: Is to what? ~::; Borup: I believe -- it's been awhile since I read it, but propose changes and originate -- butthat doesn't mean - Centers: Based on staff recommendation. Borup: We would have to sit down and -- Centers: And I'm not going to contradict staff. =~,~ Borup: All the stuff we have directed them to do, something -- or tried to get them to do -- <~, Centers: Like neighborhood meetings and those kinds of things that affect us immensely. ;;;;, Borup: We could refer to the staff notes, other than the -- other than the chart. That's ~'' the only thing that probably -- ,:. Centers: All right. Well, Steve is getting comfortable there, I think. ~' Wardle: I did make one error. I changed any and made it -- or I put any instead of the word the. ,, .~~~;~ ,~ . y~ ~~ m; ~~~~-~i ~`,'.-, ~ ~' . Siddoway: That discrepancy shows up in Item 3 on the yellow sheet. The following encroachment shall be permitted in any front yard. Dave McKinnon had crossed out any and added the word the. That's the only difference I see. Centers: Okay. Mr. Chairman, we will see where we go here. I would like to make a motion on -- get my page -- Item 11, recommending approval to the City Council, Zoning Amendment 02-002, request to amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9-2, Supplemental Yard, and Height Regulations. To allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments as submitted by Wardle & Associates, including all staff comments and the ordinance shall apply to the three-page yellow sheet as submitted -- or yellow sheets. The last sheet showing interior side, the story -- the word story shall be eliminated on the R-4 and R-8 zone, where the anterior side setback would be five- ~Yti:. s, - ~r~ r}~r ~' ti~ ~iuS `~ S. ~ ~(~~, ~ } "S 5,~ 5.+~''. ,.,. cat ~.r, _~ ~,j r irTy._,.:.., 4 ~r I Meridian Planning & Zoning '' Decemtrer 5, 2002 ~/F '~} ~ Page 70 of 74 ~~`'' ~ foot, period. One other minor change, in the fast page of the yellow sheets, Item 3, at the bottom, the following encroachments shall be permitted in -- cross out the word any i, and insert the end of motion_ ~~ Mathes: Second. ~~ Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favorf? Opposed? ~, ,~:: ~. ;a Zaremba: Naye. <~~ Borup: Two ayes, one naye, and abstention. I guess that passes. That's not atie- breaker. That's not a tie there. The ayes have it. We will move it forward onto City ~~"~' Council. Thank you. ~ G, t'° MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, ONE NAYE, ONE ABSTAINED (~ - ~ ~..Q, W 'I ~ ~i Borup: One more motion. Q " ~ •~ f"~ Siddoway: Mr. Chairman? ,~i~ V ~~C <~` Borup: Mr. Siddoway. ~ r~®~~~~J ~, a~'N "1 ~ 0~ ~ V" ~~~; Siddoway: As a side note, I would simply point out that yesterday there was a meeting z'~ at COMPASS, which Commissioner Zaremba attended, on - it was an audio conference regarding Planning and Zoning -- running Planning and Zoning Commission ~' Meetings. There was a really good packet of readings related to that exact topic ,~~ handed out and I have copies for all the Commissioners tonight, which I will hand. out as J soon as we are done. Thank you. ,~ ` ~ Borup: Thank you. That would be good. ;~> r f. Zaremba: I would comment that it was a very good meeting. I felt that Meridian and this Commission run the meetings, with the help of Chairman Borup, at a very high :~ quali and man of the su e ' tY Y gg stions that were suggested in the meeting we do. The one t hing I t ook away t hat w e d o a l ittle d ifferently i s i n a sking p eople to s ign u p t o speak. The suggestion was made that you're not to put them on the spot to say whether they are for or against. Some people really aren't for or against, but just want ~;;. to express an o pinion or ask a question a nd not m ake that d istinction, just ask who `~< wants to speak and take them in whatever order they you come. Other than that, the Commission and this Chairman is running the meeting in almost every way that was .}~ suggested. ~, Borup: So they recommended not asking -- ,: ~ ;~ _ Zaremba: Not asking for or against ~,>; ~:. t j }, ~_ ,,,1~~ 4 `^,~,, ` ~ ,~ ~, .~ ' r: ~ ~: k _; t ~~~ ~ .. . F ti~^ tc ~; t' ~ z k rh. ~ ~ - i; z ~~~ t `, J~. r' _ _ ' c R ~~~~ ~.;~ ~~~ ':, 1. _ M ~:~ ~. ~. .-? a tyux`>. ~ '~ ' ?nt ~ ~'~ t `? ~ h~ ~ i ~ h.~ t y~ ~~~~s S`,'4 F : ~ ~.y,~;f. .f-~it~ ~. yea fi n. >~c re ~~, j~arj c 1 4.1..r:~ ,~ v F }.. RC ~~y~ P~~. Y. ,., ~-r !r `fi'r ns =;,;: ~~~~ p,~' ~~. ~.4 ~ a , d ~# ~ x v ~_. .'' f i t Merldlan Planning & Zoning "'~ December 5, 2002 `' Page 70 of 74 4F,_~I foot, period. One other minor change, in the first page of the yellow sheets, Item 3, at a-' the bottom, the following encroachments shall be permitted in -- cross out the word "any" and insert "the", end of motion. ~~~; ~ Mathes: Second. ~:~;, °~ Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Opposed? '`r''` Zaremba: Naye. Borup: Two ayes, one naye, and abstention. I guess that passes. That's not a tie- breaker. That's not a tie there. The ayes have it. We will move it forward onto City Council. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, ONE NAYE, ONE ABSTAINED x:~~= „ Borup: One more motion. Siddoway: Mr. Chairman? y, -j ' , Borup: Mr. Siddoway. Siddoway: As a side note, I would simply point out that yesterday there was a meeting ~;~ at COMPASS, which Commissioner Zaremba attended, on -- it was an audio ~' conference regarding Planning and Zoning -- running Planning and Zoning Commission ,, Meetings. There was a really good packet of readings related to that exact topic <~ handed out and I have copies for all the Commissioners tonight, which I will hand out as E:; soon as we are done. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. That would be good. Zaremba: I would comment that it was a very good meeting. I felt that Meridian and ^~~ this Commission run the meetings, with the help of Chairman Borup, at a very high L quality and many of the suggestions that were suggested in the meeting we do. The "~ one t hing I t ook away t hat w e d o a l ittle d ifferently i s i n a sking p eople t o s ign u p t o ~~~~ speak. The suggestion was made that you're not to put them on the spot to say ' whether they are for or against. Some people really aren't for or against, but just want ~r to express an o pinion or ask a question a nd not m ake that d istinction, just ask who wants to speak and take them in whatever order they you come. Other than that, the ~'=''~- Commission and this Chairman is running the meeting in almost every way that was - suggested. Borup: So they recommended not asking -- ~,, ,~ Zaremba: Not asking for or against. ~~ :' A' ~ti ~: :.J {, -~ ~`.` 1 ~ { ( ~. '. :'f'.}.'+.'.~ '. u S' ~ t~.~71~~`1F ,,~ I ~ ~ r. r env :rap $$ , ?"'""~ \3r l t a{" x r'vr ~ k: i '. J M ` ~ ,i P t 7~ ~~ ~ i ~~ ~~~~. _ Y 4, -. w~ r ':Y/ r.,.? r ktri ~,A1r Y .. ;t ~,k4 +F` ~r 5;; ~~;~t` a -? '+A~, ~ it ~~ r :., >} ,~~ ._~. y A E !~~ ~-] .., i yam: 1 • ~' Meridian Planning & Zoning L'"' December 5, 2002 ~..~;F Page 71 of 74 ;.~~'` Borup: Well, I have been in meetings where they did that and it always bothered me, so I have chose to ignore that, even though we have got some instructions someplace but I felt the same way. Centers: You know, we haven't adjourned, have we. The two seminars -- I forget the ~: name of the -- `~~ Borup: Harrington and -- ,,. ~, Centers: Yes they recommend the opposite. Borup: -- Mason. :~: ;j,, Centers: Mason. w Borup: That's probably what I remember, yes. I just -- Centers: Sign up for and against. Borup: I thought that -- you're right, a lot of people just have questions, and they are not necessarily for or against. Zaremba: I think it makes it more confrontational for them to have to choose. Borup: Yes. Well, right now our sign-up sheets have that on them. ~~~ Zaremba: Right. They do. ;~ Borup: Is that something we ought to discuss, whether we want to leave that off? ~r. Zaremba: That was my suggestion just not have that column. ~; Rohm: I agree with that. I think it should be left off. Borup: I tell you, I have seen -- maybe we haven't had any real confrontational projects, ~ but the last several that have come in had a real potential and they have had the Ky,4 neighborhood meetings and it really cut down on that. I mean -- Zaremba: I like the idea of moving towards requiring the neighborhood meetings, ;~; `~``~ because they come in here with a lot of contentious issues already resolved or at least ,,.~ clarified. ,,~ Borup: We have seen that on two projects in a few months. `~ r I ~ ,~~rfi ~" S ,~, r °4~ y~~~ ~~~~z~v 1 5 ( ~ ~1 <,N t~ .. '; ~ . ~'Cr A 9t ~4 f ~~ ~ - t~ n ~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~':rN ~~ s- . w.h ` r ~'~tat~ y s'-i, z ,~.Q t-o r ~ ~:-. ~K v -, ~ ~~ ~~t. ~ , '~ r, `{7~~ ~ ~y¢~ ^s ily '~~ } .. ~ ~I~ f ~~ y~ ~f yJy{~ F h+ ~)YGV~ '. r ~ "~ .~ u~,~. " ~L- k yri ~'{ ~,~,y ~7f" a ~~ ~ r~ ~* r~ . ~;2 >*} G 8~ "y ~~ ~ ~ .: ~ ~._ ~ i ~ fig? y z:,. ~ ~~ ~ ~ "~,. r ''P.1. ~ ,~r ra ~ ~~ - "=~~ c ,2~2K . :~:. ~~,-. ~. i ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning a.;~~ ~' December 5, 2002 ~'- ~ . 7.,, G {, Page 72 of 74 Rohm: You know, another alternative that you could just add a third column that is -- I ~K. don't know what you would call it, but it's not necessarily for or against, but just would ~~°=~~ like to provide comments. ~:~ Borup: For or against or comment or question. ~:_~- 4:;~,. ~'~'~ Zaremba: Yes. `~ Rohm: Yes not necessarily. It may be that they just have query and -- ~:: b~ r~` Borup: A lot of the people do that. The rest of the Commission doesn't get to see ;_,f,x'.. those, but a lot of people put a question mark in between the two or off to the side, f -:~`-` because they don't want to be pigeon holed into either category either. ~::r; F Kai ~: ;;-' Centers: Like that one lady tonight on the Head Start, right across the street, and she ~` just had a question. a ~'> ':- Borup: And she didn't sign up either. ~~:, -;~=° ' ~ - Wollen: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I think the for or against distinction ` - `. is good in applications where you're going to get a lot of public comment and may have "5~~' a comment and may have a very big controversy concerning something. I think it would be helpful to streamline things, so you can have a block of people for and a block of ~xy people against it, t,ut most of the applications that come before this Commission, I think ~`'`~' it does have the otential effect of causin p g people to wonder if they are for or against it ,` ~ or just want to comment. Borup: You have missed -- we have had somewhere they take a page and a half. Wollen: And maybe for those -- Borup: But we haven't had that lately. Wollen: Maybe for those -- for that type of hearing it would be a good idea. Borup: Yes. Everyone has their opportunity. When we have a big group, I have asked for a spokesman to try to cut that down. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Centers: I move that we close -- Borup: Do you want to give direction on this? Just eliminate the -- Zaremba: I move that we eliminate the for and against column on the sign-up sheet for public speaking at a hearing. Rohm: I'll second that. .:~ n ~.,, ~:, ~.~ :-,.~ ~~ ~~~~Y~ ~~S 4.jy" '; i.. 1;i~ j]Sy E ~ ;''r S Y ~':~ +yyL ~k =n ,:rt. b.. n~., u~ s~ C.T` i ;.i rr ,r`= ,~, M'`(~+ ''>. ~, :~;, ,:~, .~.~;. ~4 ~t; ~ f ,;, ~ ~~ ~ n i Meridian Planning & Zoning December 5, 2002 Page 73 of 74 Centers: Do we have to have a motion for that? Borup: Well, yes, Sharon says maybe we will talk to the City Clerk about that and I will -- and if there is a strong -- I will just tell him how we feel and see if there is any other reason. Zaremba: I amend the motion to say I move that we express the opinion. Borup: Okay. I will do that with the Clerks' Office. Rohm: I move that we close this meeting. Zaremba: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Thank you. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:56 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: ~. K H BORUP, CHAT MAN DATE ~~, :,, _ `~ ~~ M,~~~~4 ATTESTED: ~h~~~ tf%' ~~' _ WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY LyERK o~ ,~+~ ~ 1 /; +~ `' 1 ;~ r~ ~~, ry ti ~ `; `'~-" jt t c ~^ :? i,4 GYM ;a'Y ~ ti °~~ n, . s ~~. a .,'~ 5 x~,n. '.. ~~. 3._, . -';_y, - 4~,~i ~t ~atx i, . .''~, _ 'q :~~f e <'., `s, ~ w<' t~ i s ri',~4'2~,.-.- ~' ~: December 2, 2002 ~'~ MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT ITEM NO. 3~A ~_~. REC~UEST Approve minutes of November 21, 2002 Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting ~'. AGENCY COMMENTS ?, -, ;: ~';.= . ~~, :: y~,k> ,. ~'' t~ CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: CITY FIRE DEPT: CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: CITY SEWER DEPT: ~(~ (~ 1°~~ CITY PARKS DEPT: ~y2 Q~ f ~,f;:j/~ MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: SANITARY SERVICES: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: SETTLERS' IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridian. tLl~ytt ~ r 1 ~ ."'t}' ~~ , w °~ t t'~{ ' {,±7~rf~,X 1 ~ r~~~~~ ~?"~', ,~ }1'f k` +f ,tf ?. t .p~i.4 . :_.i; r,. ';. {~ ti 4'.'~ 4 .e. .'iG ~, i y~~,. 3 >„ ,..; -r;` F "scr' '` ~t -'x ~'-':~< r~ k}* s ~ µ.: ~p~t ~.~: k x ~ r . ':; ~r 1. <<: ~ i~. y. ~~~' : :5. ^:::K kl y.; -Y 1 '_4~ Ij~l ~ December 2, 2002 CUP 02-033 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar ITEM NO. 4 REQUEST Tabled Public Hearing from November 21, 2002 -Request far a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, toys, etc. in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael Kreizschmar - 124 East Pine Street AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: See previous Item Packet CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY W:€ CITY POLICE DEPT: CITY FIRE DEPT: CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: CITY SEWER DEPT: SANITARY SERVICE: MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: See attached Comments CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: See attached Proof of Posting Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the Cffy of Meridian. ,~ ~, ~:.,~. ~f `~'. s .,~- y.: ,~ v{~~ ~~ ..t .-,- ,A-,~r, ~;~ ~~ ~3;_,, ~, ,4~` ,~ ,;, F; -a ~, ~x~; ~`~: ;~~; s,• ~;~:. O December 2, 2002 MI 02-009 MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Winston Moore ITEM NO. 5 REQUEST Public Hearing -Request for adjustment of area of impact between the cities of '' Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Winston Moore _ northwest comer of North Eage Road and East Ustick Road AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY FIRE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: See attached COmments F. CITY SEWER DEPT: "No Comment" SANITARY SERVICE: MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: See attached Comments CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: "We have No Objections to this Proposal" NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: No Comment IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: See attached letter from Ketlinski Law Offices Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Mk, .' ~.'~'~$ ~" i~ _:.-~, - .~r ~'~~' t ~' ., ':: ~r, ~: 2. / f_~ .. :, :Mr _; ,• ~~ <_:<, ~: .~ ;fi~G f, v ~} ~ ~[ ;; ~_-, ~~~ y ,._ ,,.: ~;: y 3~n . fF ~ r`-~i . - .~ ~: st:r; ~~:s n~ ~; ; • December 2, 2002 MI 02-011 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Packard Estates Dev., LLC ITEM NO. 6 REQUEST Public Hearing -Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian's area of impact -south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY FIRE DEPT: No Comment CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: "Ok per Meridian Water Department" CITY SEWER DEPT: "NO Comments" SANITARY SERVICE: "NO Comments" MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: See attached Comments CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: "We hwe No Objections to this Proposal" NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: See attached letter from RingerF Clark Chartered Lawyers Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the Clty of Meridian. ?st ,.,:~ ~~~:_ ~~ _.na ,,: `;;~~: __;-, :, ~; ~t' ~:~~ ':r;: '~" >~T ~F fff 4,t. ~ o December 2, 2002 CUP 02-039 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT JC Anderson, Co. ITEM NO. 7 REQUEST Public Hearing -Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two fo ten years, staffed by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles 'n Sneezes Care Center - 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 East 2nd Street AGENCY COMMENTS s ~ CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY FIRE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: See attached Comments CITY SEWER DEPT: °'NO Comment" SANITARY SERVICE: See attached Comments MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: See attached Comments CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: See attached Comments NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: See attached Comments IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian ';,:, ~~, ~~t* ~~: ,~. ~r, ., ,v` z' ~~~. .. ~' ..-- :~ C~ December 2, 2002 RZ 02-OQ6 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Friends of Children and Families, Inc. ITEM NO. 8 REQUEST Public Hearing -Request for a Rezone of Q.85 acres from I-L to O-T zones for Meridian Head Start - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue AGENGY COMMENTS ~~: ~_;;;. ~ •,:~; `.ray, tia:~~, ,~~ .~s:~ ':~t' ~. ;:rte ~~ ~~~ __` ,~,~ .;. ~^ 4t *:%Q ? ' `' ~' -r «: ~:' CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY FIRE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: "Ok per Meridian Water" CITY SEWER DEPT: "NO Comment" SANITARY SERVICE: "No Comments at thls time" MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: See attached Comments CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: "We have No Objections to this Proposal" NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: No Comment IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: See attached letter from Patty Miles and James Cain Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials present®d at public mee~ngs shag become property of the Cify of Merldlan. .~~".:, _ ~~~. ,s . .,:::. , ~ ~. ". ~. ;~~' ~- ::-. x: ~;;~• t~'~~ ` X _. ,,_. -fr ~~s. ~. f ~~ f~~~. :,_`, ~ v December 2, 2002 CUP 02-037 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Friends Of Children and Families, Inc. ITEM NO. 9 REQUEST Public Hearing -Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a two classroom center serving young children and families, and a 400 square foot community meeting room for Meridian Mead Start - 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY FIRE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: See attached Comments CITY SEWER DEPT: "No Comment" SANITARY SERVICE: See attached Comments MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: See attached Comments CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: See attached Comments NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: See attached Comments IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: See attached letters from James Cain and Patty Miles Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. ~~r ~;~,;, y,-~~ t ~~ ~' 'y ' ~4 ,, e o December 2, 2002 RZ 02-007 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Meridian First Baptist Church ITEM NO. ~ O REQUEST Public Hearing -Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R-4 to L-O zones for Meridian First Baptist Church - 428 and 506 West Pine Avenue AGENCY COMMENTS CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY FIRE DEPT: See attached Comments CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: "Ok per Meridian Water" CITY SEWER DEPT: "NO Comment" SANITARY SERVICE: "NO Comments at this tpme" MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: MERIDIAN POST OFFICE: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: "We have No Objections to this Proposal" NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: No Comment IDAHO POWER: US WEST: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: See attached Proof of Posting Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the Clty of AAerldian. PdN.. :r .:. =~~Y ;7~ ~L ,~ ,} ,~. ,:~: ?~:' .3 'y jt~?. k .' L~C ~.F I. ;k5 ~~ ~~ .,,. :- . ,,, ~:r' y 6;3~ ~~. T~ -, , ~_; ` ~~~ _ _;i ~., _ k ~ °;~Z~' ~~~ e ~ December 2, 2002 ZA 02-002 MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING MEETING December 5, 2002 APPLICANT Wardle and Associates ITEM NO. REQUEST Public Hearing -Request to Amend Zoning Ordinances 11-9-2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments AGENCY COMMENTS ~® a CITY CLERK: CITY ENGINEER: CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR: CITY ATTORNEY CITY POLICE DEPT: CITY FIRE DEPT: CITY BUILDING DEPT: CITY WATER DEPT: CITY SEWER DEPT: CITY PARKS DEPT: MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT: SANITARY SERVICES: ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT: CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH: NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION: SETTLERS' IRRIGATION: IDAHO POWER: INTERMOUNTAIN GAS: OTHER: Contacted: Date: Phone: Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. See attached Comments See attached Comments "No Comment" "No Comments at this time" See attached Comments "We have No Objections to this Proposal" No Comment