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2008 11-20s%. ~. R, ;f, ~r ~. <~~, LcJ :;~v x .:; s, ;.r; ;, ~: '~' ~, ~~.. ~~ n ~ ~?t~ ,~. ~._ N ~ r :,,;.- ~ 4 F ^~ _r r..>' ~~~ -;_; -;: a ~~~ .~.e~ Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting November 20, 2008 Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of November 20, 2008, was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Commissioner Wendy Newton-Huckabay. Members Present: Commissioner Michael Rohm, Commissioner Joe Marshall, and Commissioner Tom O'Brien, Commissioner Wendy Newton-Huckabay. Members Absent: Chairman David Moe. Others Present: Bill Nary, Machelle Hill, Anna Canning, Pete Friedman, Bill Parsons, Sonya Wafters, Scott Steckline and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance: Roll-call X Wendy Newton-Huckabay X Tom O'Brien X Michael Rohm -Vice Chairman X Joe Marshall David Moe -Chairman Newton-Huckabay: Good evening. I'd like to welcome you to the regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for November 20th, 2008. I'd like to ask the clerk to call roll. Newton-Huckabay: You all seem very far away. Rohm: Everybody to the front. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: Newton-Huckabay: You need to move to the front. This is my first meeting that I'm acting as chair, so, please, bear with me on some of the procedural items, if you will. The next item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. There are no changes to that agenda. Do I have a motion to adopt the agenda? Rohm: So moved. O'Brien: I'll second. Newton-Huckabay: It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 3: Consent Agenda: Meridian Planning & Zoning `; :` November 20, 2008 Page 2 of 48 A. Approve Minutes of November 6, 2008 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting: :~ Newton-Huckabay: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. Could I have a motion to approve the Consent Agenda if there is no changes? O'Brien: So moved. Rohm: Second. ~: :~;. ri; ~:;,, Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Okay. Very quickly. I want to go through the overview of the meeting. We will start with the staff presentations. We will hear from them first. Their job is to review the application based on its adherence to the Comprehensive Plan and city ordinance. Once that's complete the applicant will have 15 minutes to present their application to us and, then, once the application -- the applicant has finished, the public will each have three minutes to testify before the Commission. If you are a homeowner -- or speaking for a homeowners association, you may have up to ten minutes. Once the public has completed their testimony, the applicant will be given the opportunity to respond to any and all testimony and answer any questions that were raised during the public testimony. I just want to remind everyone to, please, speak into microphone and we do have a timer, it's over here off to the right of me, with lights on it and that will kind of tell you what your time is on your presentation. And, please, make sure that you are addressing the Commission and, please, do not ask questions from the audience. Item 4: Continued Public Hearing from October 16, 2008: RZ 08-005 Request for Rezone of 26.58 acres from an R-4 to an R-8 zone for Cavanaugh Ridge by Kastera Development, LLC -east of S. Meridian Road and south of E. Victory Road: Item 5: Continued Public Hearing from October 16, 2008: PP 08-010 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 255 residential building lots and 26 common area lots on 91.08 acres in an R-4 and proposed R-8 zoning district for Cavanaugh Ridge by Kastera Development, LLC -east of S. Meridian Road and south of E. Victory Road: Newton-Huckabay: And with that I will open the first hearing. It's a continued public hearing from October 16th, 2008, RZ 08-005 and PP 08-010. I'd like to open this for the sole purpose of discussing whether we will require a re-notice of this application as they are requesting a six month delay and whether we will charge them fees to re-notice any applicable fees related to that. ;: ~, ~, t ',~h • 'ice - - ,t f. r ~, ~ ~ ' :i~ i~ ~ G o. ~* i } ty, (+ }: n': ~ e~. - „ ~,y r `. .. _ .. a . i . ,;. ~~ ~- ~r'. ~~ r t ~~. r° - i _ r z._ ~ t; e %. ~<: `?~ w~^ ^;~ ~~. r~ ' ~~ ~X; -.~ .h-. °'` {: ;~~~ ~. :k~~ f- ~v :< ~~, >- x:~~' ~,; :y~; -~; r; T' ;~T ;~' ~~;:_ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 3 of 48 Marshall: Madam Chair? Seeing how that it's six months out, I think it very appropriate to require re-noticing, so that the public has a clear opportunity to recognize that they need -- if they want to address this issue. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. We will hear from staff very quickly. Sonya, do you have any comments on this one? Wafters: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, staff would recommend that this project be re-noticed, since it is six months down the road, and that the applicant be charged the applicable noticing fees. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Any other comments? Marshall: I made mine. Rohm: It seems appropriate. Is the applicant here? Newton-Huckabay: No. Rohm: Oh. Okay. O'Brien: Excuse me, Madam Chair. When was the -- when staff -- the first time that they came on, was it just within a few months -- is there a time limit, like six months, a year, something like that, before it would have to be re-noticed or does that have to do with the changes that they are making that would make it important to re-notice? Canning: Madam Chair, Commissioner O'Brien, there is no mandated requirements for re-noticing. The applicant called me and said -- quite frankly, they just -- we had asked them to make changes and they just didn't want to invest any money in this project at this time. They wanted to wait six months and move forward at that time, but as you may have heard, the development community is a little slow right now. I said, well, we don't have a precedent, but there is no reason we can't continue you for six months or whatever you need. It's preferable to continuing out month by month by month by month. So, they weren't ready with -- to withdraw the application, but they did ask to continue it and I agree with Sonya's assessment. I think it is appropriate to re-notice. They just didn't want to withdraw, have to resubmit, and, then, have to cue up for another hearing. O'Brien: That makes sense and I agree that it should be re-noticed, too. Newton-Huckabay: Ready for a motion? Marshall: Madam Chair? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall. ~:. .:.~ r~"' Meridian Planning & Zoning '~ '" November 20, 2008 _ Page 4 of 48 s,, Marshall: I move that RZ 08-005 and PP 08-010 be continued to the regularly scheduled Planning and Zoning Commission meeting of May 22nd, 2009. ,.. _:: O'Brien: May 21st. Marshall: Of May 21st, 2009. But that the applicant should be required to re-notice and post for the continued hearing. O'Brien: I'll second. ~`~ Newton-Huckabay: It's been moved and seconded to approve RZ 08 dash -- or ~: continue RZ 08-005 and PP 08-010 to May 21st, 2009. All those in favor? Opposed? ~: `~~° Motion carries. MOTION CARRIES: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. ;' Item 6: Continued Public Hearing from October 2, 2008: AZ 08-012 Request ~::~- for Annexation and Zoning of 5.03 acres of land from RUT in Ada County to an R-4 zone for Shays Cove by Landmark Engineering & Planning, Inc. - 3155 S. Mesa Way: ~~ Item 7: Continued Public from October 2, 2008: PP 08-009 Request for ~: -::: Preliminary Plat approval of 8single-family residential building lots and 3 r~ ~".' common lots on 4.45 acres in a proposed R-4 zoning district for Shays ~~y; , w' . ' Cove by Landmark Engineering & Planning, Inc. - 3155 S. Mesa Way: ~~ ~' ' ~, ' Newton-Huckabay: Okay. The next item on the agenda is AZ 08-012 and PP 08-009 ~~~ :. for Shays Cove. We did continue this hearing from October 2nd and we are hearing ~~,,.. k`~`~'~ tonight responses based -- based on addition of an extended street, I believe, Sonya. Wafters: Thank you, Madam Chair, Member of the Commission. At the last Commission meeting that this was heard on October 2nd, the Commission recommended that South Coy Place be extended as a stub street to the north property boundary for future extension and that a temporary turnaround be provided. The applicant has done this and submitted a revised plat, as you can see there on the screen. They did eliminate one lot, 8,600 square foot lot off of Mesa Way and has just included that property in lot -- I believe it's three there. So, the total lot count is reduced to seven from eight as before shown. Staff will stand for any questions the Commission may have on that at this time. >., r ~~ Newton-Huckabay: Any questions for staff? O'Brien: Not at this time. Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to come forward from clear out there. Nice diggs, huh. ..;•a: ,4• ~ v ~~~ ,,~; ~` ~.; k ~.{ -, -: :~: ~w~ ;~: ' ~'Yi ,a Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 5 of 48 Todd: Yeah. Got the wide screen. You guys could do a football game on Saturday. You guys going to Reno? So am I. I can't wait. Leaving tomorrow morning. My name is Chris Todd with Landmark Engineering and Planning here on behalf of the developer. So, thank you for having me here, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. We did go through and revise the layout that's in front of you per your recommendations. The one direction I would like to get from you, it's kind of small, the temporary turnaround, as it states there in the staff report, that in the staff report that there is no need for a turnaround or a cul-de-sac below -- or less than 150 feet; is that correct? We will put one as shown there on the plan. So, the only other questions I had was does the temporary turnaround have to be installed or can we just do the stub street with the sign that says the street will be extended in the future. If you look at your staff report, it's under item number five, just a little clarification from you on that one. That was the only point. But other than that, we have worked with ACHD and your staff and we look forward to building this project out. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Any questions? O'Brien: I have a question, Madam Chair. I missed your first name. Todd: Chris. O'Brien: Chris. What is that -- what is going to happen to the property area on the east side of -- of that stub street? I think it's 4C. It's kind of hard for me to read. What's -- is that just going to be open space or -- Todd: Yes. That's-going to be a common area used for open space and there is a color exhibit that just got thrown up there, the revised one. O'Brien: Okay. Todd: As you know, the property that's out there is very extensively landscaped. It's a really -- Mr. Shays has gone through and done a great job with his landscaping, so we are going to continue that in that common area. Probably have to have a little bit of storm drainage there as well for the site to meet the requirements. Marshall: One of the questions that came up at the last hearing relative to this property was the slope of the -- Victory Road coming down near the entrance to Coy Place. Have you talked with Ada County Highway District? Are there any concerns there on -- Todd: There hasn't been any concerns brought forth from the highway district concerning site distance or the site triangle. I don't think they have submitted anything to the city as well. Marshall: Okay. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 6 of 48 Todd: But they did -- they did review the ew plan that's in front of you and they did rely on their staff report. Marshall: Do you know what the speed li it will be? Is it 35 or 40 in that area? Todd: No, I don't know. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Br en. Excuse me. We only instructed the applicant in our last hearing to address th stub street issue. O'Brien: Okay. Newton-Huckabay: And that would be all a came prepared to discuss, I believe. O'Brien: Okay. I was curious as to -- if th t was discussed, but thank you very much. Todd: Try to keep me on my toes. I like it O'Brien: Thank you. That's all I have. Todd: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: There is no one sign d up to testify. If you would like to, you can come forward at this time. Okay. then, w will need no rebuttal. So, any discussion? Marshall: Madam Chair? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marsh II. Marshall: I am very happy with the revisio s. I think they went quite a ways to meet our request and I appreciate what they have one. As far as the tumaround, I would ask staff a little direction on what their -- they re requesting the tumaround; is that correct? Wafters: The fire department. Marshall: The fire department's requestin the tum around. Wafters: Yes. Madam Chair, Member of the Commission, the fire department is requiring a temporary tumaround. At whic time the street is extended in the future that temporary tumaround would go away. T ey do require a tumaround over 150 feet in length and then -- which this is. In ad ition, they, you know, wouldn't want traffic backing out on -- on Victory. Yeah. Marshall: Thank you. With that I'm happy with the changes. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Do we have a motion . r ~~,., ;,~. ,~, ~., ,,; ,_ . _ . __ _ _. ~:: ~. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 7 of 48 ~~, Rohm: First we got to close the public hearing. - qr . #~, f c ; Newton-Huckabay: Oh. ~ ~ ;> Rohm: Madam Chairman, I move that we close the public hearing on AZ 08-012 and PP 08-009. Marshall: Second. ~: Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. ~` ~' MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Rohm: Go ahead. Marshall: Madam Chair, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, ,~a~ move to approve file numbers AZ 07 -- or 08-012 and PP 08-009 as presented in the ~' «~ staff report for the hearing date of November 20th, 2008, with no modifications. ;~ . _; Rohm: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. ~ ~'' ` Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from October 2, 2008: CUP 08-024 Request ~~ ~ F~~~ for Conditional Use Permit for outdoor speaker systems for the Meridian _ High School ball fields in an R-4 zoning district for Meridian High PA System by Joint School District No. 2 - 1900 W. Pine Avenue: ;T " Newton-Huckabay: The next item on the agenda is CUP 08-024 for the Meridian High ~' ~~ PA system and we will start with staff comments. s Watters: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, at the last Commission meeting ~~t ~Y '~~~ ` on October 2nd the Commission directed the applicant to work with Aatronics and the '' Geile to determine an appropriate decibel level for the speaker system at the property line. The applicant has done this and I believe that they have reached an agreement. That's -- Margie Kennedy will testify to that. That's all staff has. °;}, Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward. ~~ `' "~ " Kennedy: Good evening, Madam Chair and Commissioners. My name is Margie ~ ` Kennedy. I'm with Hummel Architects. 2785 Bogus Basin Road. And we are the architects representing the Joint School District No. 2 for Meridian High School and, yes, as Sonya said, last time we met and said that we would get together with the Geile, . - _ ,k` P~ z ~k:' ~, ~ ^ ~~~~ j+ Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 8 of 48 which we did, myself, Jerry Bergquist, the athletic director for Meridian High, and Tom and Paul Geile got together and we all got out our decibel readers and they turned on the music, as well as the announcing system and we played the music and we talked in the microphone and we all came to agreement of about 60 decibels at the property line and so I felt pretty good, because everybody was pretty happy with -- I should say the loudness of the -- of the sound. So, I think that was a good meeting of the minds. So, I just -- I was just going to add that we did this test with the existing speakers in their current location. So, we did not move -- we thought we would try this test with the existing speakers first and it worked. So -- so, we hope that the Commission will approve the existing speakers and allow the school district to continue doing the announcements and playing the music, which, you know, I might add the music really creates the ambience for a baseball game and kind of creates that sporting athletic feel that I know kind of gets all the spectators involved with the game. So, with that that kind of ends my presentation. Newton-Huckabay: Any questions for the applicant? Rohm: I don't have any. Newton-Huckabay: I have one. How -- is there just some setting on the speaker that will allow it not to go over 60 decibels? Kennedy: Yes, there is. I have been told by Aatronics they can come out and set the volume, so it won't exceed this decibel rating. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. So, does it adjust to whatever is played over that, it's never going to be more than 60? I shouldn't say never. Kennedy: Yeah. Technically -- mechanically or technically -- Newton-Huckabay: It reads that and -- Kennedy: Uh-huh. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. So, no matter what you're playing it's going to be 60 decibels at the property line? Kennedy: Uh-huh. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you. Kennedy: All right. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: We have three folks signed up to testify. Tom A. Geile. `:M Yy ~ ~,', -,,., F 1 3 lr `Y a' LY ,t 'Rf~~. R; ~ , ~ x . iF ~`~ c~ * i I t r~ t r r ~' ~ ..r ~~ _ •r ~~ ~ ~l z~Ye~.' ,r ,i9.Y ~ro s ~ S3 f 3':. - r r ~ ` j. 1C3~' ~ ~ c _ `~ f ~ Nx+ ~ ~ - F ~_ y f ~ r p ~~S _- __ ' Meridian Planning 8 Zoning ~~. November 20, 2008 Page 9 of 48 A~ Canning: Madam Chair, can I interrupt for a moment? Unlike our old microphones -~,,. .~ where you really did have to speak right into it, I think if you just kind of stand in the middle and talk between the two speaks -- or the two microphones it will pick you up. ~^ ' ' So, don't wont' about bending over and talking into the microphone. It will pick you up just fine. There you go. ;. ~~ Geile: Okay. That will be fine. My name is Thomas A. Geile and I live at 2150 West Pine, just west of this ball field. We did agree to meet or, well, we did meet with Marge :~iL~? and the athletic director on 11/17 and agreed with the 60 degree decibel level at the ',; 4s property line. We do have a couple of additional things in regards to the music that they ?: said they need to be played before the game, during the game, after the game. We felt that there really doesn't need to be any music played during the game or after the game, as we see no real reason to have. The announcement at the time of the test was very good and very -- very need to have it at the 60 decibels. The music that they played that particular day was irritating to me at the property line. Now, I don't know as -- whether you could carry on a conversation in the yard. Our dining room table, if we ~' ~~~ sat in the summertime and had the sliding glass doors open, is a hundred -- about 155 feet from the speaker, which will give us plenty of -- I think noise level at our house. So, ~~; ~~,~ we .would really like to have music only during the game, not before the game, after the game, which will be all right and no music during school, baseball, or softball practices. And that's, basically, all I think I need to cover. Thank you. .,.. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Paul Geile. .~. ~'>~;~, P.Geile: My name is Paul Geile. I live at 21 -- he lives at 2150. I live at 4717 Willow ti Lane in Boise. Tom is my father. And I have lived a lot of my life next Meridian High ~{ ~ ~~~~~ ' School and we were there when it was built in 1976 and we understand that the schools are bound to have several footprints on the surrounding neighborhoods. A school is certainly going to spill some traffic, some light, an occasional trespasser and tonight's issue is noise. We have agreed to a 60 db noise level at the property line with Marge and we did just as she said with voice and music playing and while 60 db sounds -- is a ;..~r very modest level, actually, in terms of when I spoke to an audiologist and he figured ~'" _; that that would be an acceptable level, but even at that level it -- with music playing at "" the school at 60 db at the property line, it would be very difficult to use your cell phone, ~~' ~ `~' for example, in our backyard and we are apt to be exposed to a fair amount of this. Keep in mind also that the future of this property is essentially high density residential. Hopefully -- should have been the last night's go around, but it didn't, so we are hoping to have a couple hundred doors of people being exposed to this right to the west of that property. There is 20 acres there. And we would certainly put up with necessary and a;- unavoidable spillages, but we are in kind of a strangely regulatory environment where we have to -- this is our only little narrow opportunity to control what noise emissions ~~~ , come out of the school and this is probably our last opportunity to really defend ourself from -- from noise emissions that may become abusive in the future. Our proposal was at that 60 db at the property line is acceptable. We will certainly go ahead and allow the music inside the game, but at no time outside the game. The music seems to be the most obtrusive part of this system and I think .Gill will speak to that in the future. Hours ,r l yi -:~ ~_, 9f ~l? '''? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 ~'' Page 10 of 48 'r of operation. The applicant in their narrative requested 3:00 to 10:00 p.m. For some reason staff changed it to 8:00 to 10:00. We would prefer to go back to the 3:00 to 10:00 and that's about all I have. Do you have any questions forme? Marshall: Yes, Mr. Geile. -£~t P.Geile: Yes. -: ~ Marshall: Were you there when evaluating 60 decibel limits? ,: P.Geile: Yes, I was. And we did just -- Susan asked a clarification. The tool has a setting of fast and slow response. We were set on fast. The tool has an A, B and C r==~~~~ setting and we were set on A, which is what Boise city uses to control their park noise. ~'' `` So, yes, I was there at that time during the test. a... ~, Marshall: And how was the 60 decibel limit to you? I mean what was -- you say it's acceptable; right? P.Geile: Well, it's -- it's probably -- the coach indicated that it was acceptable to him in terms of being effective for the crowd. Acceptable depends on what's being played and ' how much of it there is, because right now I think as the Conditional Use Permit is t ~_; ~ .~«~ written, we could be exposed to a 60 decibel level from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. every *~~~ day of the week. And if this passes we, as a neighborhood, don't have any -- any protection from that -- it's probably not going to happen, but there is no ability to file a ;4~-Y~, complaint against the school as you know. But acceptable -- if there were a radio e `: ' ' playing in here at 60 decibels, you would probably stop the meeting and have to have it t shut off. I mean it's -- it sounds like a small amount, but if it's not of your choosing and r~~ it's just in the background all the time, it's quite intrusive. ~y~:~~Q Marshall: Appreciate that. ;_~: ~'~` ~~ O'Brien: I don't have anything. ~: _,,i P.Geile: Okay. <`~1 Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Geile, I am concerned that we specifically at the last time we `` ' -~~I heard this that -- sit down with the school district and agree on a noise level that's ,;r acceptable to everyone. I mean it was pretty clear to me that that doesn't mean, well, it's acceptable if you're doing his, but it's not acceptable if you're doing this and I'm kind _' of -- I'm kind of concerned that we didn't -- I didn't expect to come back and, well, it's d ~' ~~ okay kind of. '~~~ P.Geile: It's -- Boise city has, basically, done a decibel level at the property line limitation at different parks. They have no interest in regulating content and I don't think ~'' you want to get into the content business either. But when I left that last meeting -- _`~~ don't know the actual language that was used. My understanding was to come to `~I ~.:,. - ,~ ce:,~.- i ~~.~ l iF~ ~~~~ (+ ~ "l.:\ L' "i'S #.S4"~. ~4 J .v.Y?v-'' }... .,: a ,. a ~ ~~<,. ~} S y ~ 3 A ~~ ~~ ,~r~; w k ~':~ >, .~,~~. h3 ~~ ..,., :J br.- - t ~ r+`~~~h.. ,. •u j Y~ ~ •'f'1.i„~;. ~.~ :; E } .. ~`~yJ 1 ~~~~ ::yam.. ..~, `~ ~~~~" - t~' ; ' - ~'Y ~ .:_~.. . r~ ~:~. -: `~~. >° ,~,~ ,: ;~f tY~~a ~~~~ '~ °. k '. h~. r i:~r~~ ~ ~~1,` .t Y .: ^~J'ty. ~~i, ,. _y<: , ~.: ~:,~:.. ~_~_. ~A, ~. -~.~;~ ~M ;.~ ~~ 3 r. $ ~ ~; ,~: ~. ~w~ ~.' ..~~, ~, : ~~, ~' r ;- :~ t ~ x~~~, ~:;~~'~ ,, A ~~ k ~' `4F' A .~ ~' °='t ~` '4 ..-t.; i 4' ,._.-,- . Wyk, ~~M1 ~; - w ' ,q L~` { , ~ - k~ >~ ~ ' ~~ r_. s ` ,;` ~u` ?~, . ~:,. ~_t ~ ~,. Y Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 11 of 48 agreement with the neighbors and we -- that has to encompass something in addition to a db level at the property line and we, essentially, agreed long before about the hours of operation and we were concerned about db level and what we had sort of given -- given to them so far is -- is we will waive our objection to the hundred foot rule with the speakers if -- if we can get some -- and they have given us a db level at the property line, but, boy, I challenge you to let your neighbor play 60 db next to your house for any length of time. My understanding was we needed to come to general agreement on these subjects. If the language says otherwise, I guess, then, that's where we are. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. O'Brien: Madam Chair? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: I have a question. I just get the feeling that we really don't have an agreement yet as to what the school district first -- as far as you have to say and do. There is some difference there that we are still concerned with. And the other thing I have concern with is why we didn't test this thing with the speakers turned away from the property line. To me that -- I mean that makes a big difference in the db level if you're placing the speak versus -- G.Geile: Oh, in looking at other ball fields, most of the other high school fields are oriented such that the home base is not up against a residential area. Centennial High is up against astreet -- across the street to a residential area. Moving the speakers -- I got the impression from the architect who was involved and could -- you know, we didn't ask them to test them in a new location and when we spoke to them -- well, within ourselves about the hundred foot rule -- the hundred foot rule kind of didn't make a whole lot of sense to us, because you could put those speakers at 300 feet and crank them up to where you couldn't stand it at the property line. So, it made more sense to us to do a db level at the property line, which, you know, Meridian City Code was pretty nebulous, but, obviously, still doesn't apply to the high school, but I suppose you could still ask that the applicant test those in another configuration, but my understanding was we were to come to a general agreement and I don't have -- and I don't even know that you have a finished document that you will be voting on tonight and that's kind of -- there was a little difference between the applicant's narrative of the 3:00 to 10:00 and the actual conditional use conditions of 8:00 to 10:00. So, I don't have a finished document in front of me. I didn't know how that was going to work when we came to this meeting and we had expected -- or at least I had kind of expected that, yes, we went out and tried to resolve it. We have one remaining generic issue, which is -- which is music and is the impression I have gotten from the high school guy is that you were capable of deciding that and making a ruling and everybody would abide by it. I don't know if that's really what you would like to do or not. O'Brien: I guess I have a concern on the hours as well. Limiting that type of activity , from 3:00 to 10:00 where there are certainly other activities during the daytime, you ~,y~L;t~-~S.}^.- c.{'S~/'.~~ Pu+~~.~~~+~'n~ 'fr~i ''~~~~~~' +~,~.So-S+~ 3i ~ Lti~ _ ~a~ {"Y` ~ ~ .,~„ ~i:'~.i~i4~{:~tt~~r~~ xtw?.~6~3~.a-Z.ii`rE'..j'~~ is ~ti'fi ~' .., .~ ~ ._ s -. e - - ''~ ~. 5 c~ ~ : }, ~, . ,As -~, a ~~ity~yw F > 7 ? F ~.. ~' ~ '~~ h'-d ~ n ~ ~ 'f ,; ~Fl~t,t 4 d ~'~}' .:mod kk. ~.~ t k ~ `£ a r ;~1 ~ ~~`i~.~ies'fA, 'tf ~S~W~~ z..~R'~i ~?.i{masW~~: yl ~ ,3?,~;~l~P>Y ~ ~~~4~y~ ,. ~` .. ~ ~ ~ ~c~k a~ ~ ~ pia ~-', v n4ti w-~ ,~In 4.+ - .... ~ ~ ~ n'~ F ~ ~ ~ri-y `"~` T ~~ u` t: t ~ ';~~~ wt1 ~~At Y i ` r.- t 1 F- F' ~ ~ ; 'a A't i'~+ ( •'~y ~,r ~,r ~~ ~ b4. `~'~ vkr~, r ~i>r~«~r t,-;~~.~.,, ~~"Y'i~'~gt f:,C'4~~ ~ ~` ~4~' `~r ~ ~3 'h a :~`k, j!-~,~~r s~ ~i ~r,~ a''m6.s~x . ~ ~'6.4,~r~~4-,~~ ,'+ ~~-~~ a~N~a~ v~•,"~~7~i"'~* '~ ~ „~ . !~~ ~„ r- u < ~i' k~ r, :" •, " vim, r'. ~ ,~~~~~,y b :. _ ... c. ~ -. t t y .~~~tu i.t. ~ M1 ~~~Z~ M~.ti i~x ~~~~~ ~~+'Ff ~ ~' /. 1 ~~ 4 ~i~~ v ~ ''~ x~ -,3: -,r f- ~! ~ _o ,1p-Ttr-ti Nr L ~ ~ ~~ } »nf t.,+~- w 4 ' f r '~ ° 3 v''~ i A.`'t~f.`r~'~ ~ ~ <~cn ,~~ui ~ - -h'? ~? P ~~'a.~~~ i • ~ ' ~'~ 'F: ~ ,:,t. -_.i ~,'t ..d.; ~ i' .14..1 3h!'X :~~4~'t 1:~.fifi~'r'`~ F~F ~vV,xq. X' - .. k, by ~ .1 ~ '~, ~~L ~ ~ ~` <~ Y'7,h ..+ t-t a~ t r ~, "rf ;~ ,~ t ~ `' ~• ? ~' ~~+' 4 +. . ~. ~ ~ ~~'~' '~, . z~ z Sw'F' c -- ~ - -..,~ w. ,.. t,ti.,,~;: :~ ,~ <Etif~} ~t~...'t; nt~rtt~'.~-'~~e~"~5~~-~.' T~iia'rFi4e~:~ d., _... .. ~. - , - a;.;t~-.: r (, , f`: 4 t::; s3-` ;:~w 7 °~>'~, ~~:.~r -,.;; r~F '~.; ~:.3,`~..:,~: .;~, ~v ~ r.L~; q ~-i+~. t. -~ "~, `J- . ;~~ ,. <~~ ~~ s~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 12 of 48 know, after 8:00 a.m., that I think it would be too constructive for the school operation to -- to be able to be functional in those aspects. P.Geile: If that was, essentially, a preliminary error in the applicant's narrative, request the 3:00 to 10:00 got changed by the staff report an 8:00 to 10:00, the finished document says 8:00 to 10:00 and you vote that in, then, 8:00 to 10:00 will be the rule. As it stands now, I think it says 8:00 to 10:00. Is that your understanding? And it -- if -- I guess the other thing is if this field is loaned to churches on Sunday moming at 8:00 a.m., we will have church music in our yard on Sunday moming. The abuses -- potential abuses I really don't think are going to happen. Our defense against potential abuses just is non-existent. So, I don't know what -- what the Commission's choice of what to vote on tonight is, but our opinion is 60 db at the property line is -- is probably as good an agreement as we are going to get. The music is -- is most disturbing to the neighbors and we'd certainly like to limit that to inside the game only, which is what seemed to be important to the coaches. But this is a very obtrusive thing and it's -- it is four and five days a week, potentially. So, without the ability to file a complaint, we are -- we are at the last regulatory stop here as neighbors. O'Brien: That's all I have. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thanks. Gil Maclennan. Maclennan: My name is Gil Maclennan. I live at 1210 North Rutledge, which is on the northwest comer of the ball fields. We were at the last meeting and went to the testing of the db ratings, because the music is the biggest contention of everything. Our house being at the very north end of the property, when they were playing the music we could go inside the house, close the door, and it was still quite dominant inside the house, to where it was really quite irritating. I believe that Tom Geile and myself, our biggest issue is being -- I'm all for the high school, all for -- you know, we hear the band practicing, we hear the football games, that's all exciting and everything, but the nuisance of the music in nonparticipating sports times is really kind of a nuisance. It doesn't affect anything. All it's doing is blaring. The last time I spoke here I talked about the maintenance guys having it on while they are out doing maintenance work on the -- you know, what's the use? They could get some earphones and put them on, instead of bleeding over into the neighborhood. That's basically what -- it's the only thing we really want, because when the school rents out the property on the weekend, they have no control, because they are not there, but at 8:00 o'clock in the moming or Sunday moming you have a baseball tournament and they have got the radio blaring. Or I mean the CD or whatever they are running is blaring. Does it have anything to do with the baseball games? No. It's just blaring. And so we would just like to see that there would be some kind of regulatory condition put to the music. You know, the games I have no problem at all. My friend's a high school baseball coach. Taught baseball. We love the football games. All of that. So, we don't have issues with that, it's just the non-game type of music that is blared out over the speakers and they were -- it's a great Hummel Architect -- Margie has a great system. It works well. With music it works too well for the neighboring -- for us on the neighbors. And so, basically, that's Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 13 of 48 the only thing -- I have to agree with Tom and them is that the nuisance of the music during -- not during the games, but at regular, you know, times when games aren't going on, practices, you know, from 3:30 to 5:30, you know, they are practicing and the music's just playing. And you got hardball, they are playing their music. You have the girl's softball, they are playing their music. Thank you. O'Brien: Madam Chair, I do have a question for Mr. Maclennan. You say you were involved with the testing of the 60 decibels limit? Maclennan: The -- they did that Monday. I was out of town on Monday, but I was involved in the first set of go arounds on it and, then, they went to the baseball fields to test it and somebody had vandalized the audio system, but the plugs all off of it. So, we were unable to test that one. So, Monday I was out of town and they did the 60. At the time that was there, they were -- we were reading 65 decibels. You know, it was still a little bit too loud, but Tom and Paul said they have come back to the 60, it says it sounded good, everything was fine, but the biggest issue of the music issue, you know. I'm a musician. I love all sorts of music. But I like to choose what I'm hearing, not having it forced down my throat. Marshall: Right. So, your opinion about the volume itself, not just -- I'm not discussing what type of music or what type of sound, but the volume itself you feel is probably appropriate at 60 decibels? 's' Maclennan: Yeah, I would say so. I mean your -- the crowd's going to get louder than the music is when it's -- the excitement builds. If you have ever been to the football games, you can hear the band playing. You can hear some of the other things. But when somebody makes a touchdown it's quite deafening, which is really exciting, you know. It dies down, but doesn't start at 8:00 o'clock in the morning. Marshall: Appreciate that. Thank you. ; Maclennan: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to respond? Oh, was there anyone else that would like to testify? That was the last of my signed up folks. i 5 Stands: Good evening, Madam Chair and Commissioners. My name is Geoff Stands. live at 2602 Greenwood Circle in Boise. I'm the principal at Meridian High School Certainly concerned and want to be good neighbors, but we are a big high school and we have things that go on at the school, things that are pretty unavoidable. The traffic and those things. I just -- the comment I want to make is that as far as the music, this is not a practice isolated just to Meridian High School. If you go to middle school, high _ school, across our district, city, state, I mean that's just -- that's what we do during the pre-games, during the games, and practice. I agree there needs to be an acceptable decibel, which I believe we came to that agreement. So, I think we should be able to play the music -- of course it needs to be kept at that acceptable level. I would like to ~rt x - ,fir ..7~e:'~^~.`t{'~^~a;5+c~ i~xra'l5~ir.~.'c"~'` }`«"i •-?~Jt" ~ ~. ~ ~ _` , a X ,w e ~, ~3 '}S~e'FY ~, - ~~ ~ h is 1 < ~ + k r F~ `,~' b ~ ~ ' {7k" ~SY~ 2 ~~ ,,,,~'~>`~°.~ ,~~'~.%~ ri r ~.~~, { ;, --~ ~ t;~,w t '~ t - Div. f 4r, ~ F) ;. ~~ `' ~' ~ %~~ b'S~~«~~'k ATM .. } ~xs•~~ ~~"- ~ ~ _ r :' a ~ .. ~~? ' .t wt y~.~"~+Y;,~~,y t~.~~~'F~ ~~`}F4r"'R ': ~1~~rtC .ti~1!~` i? y~ ~,~ +'~~6 c~~ ~'~~ ~ Y - ~ ." ~° + _ ~, ' t Y ~ ~ r -~ it - ~+ ~. H 2~'~ ~ § ~ s' j cN I " _Z +'~ J ~ ~ ~. 1 h a f r+h ~. n. ~ 4 .. „"~~ ~~+ ~~ fir£';. ,~J `aa°s •'•k~a~+ ~} r^q~ y~ ~c tg~~~g :' ~,ry ,h Ti~"~,."~.`~~i+E.. +~,,~z.,; .~~: a s. : ,p ~ ~. t 1 ~s 9s E ,ys - Y,,1* :~ 4• ~n i~'` - "`~, - ,~~n 3{w¢r~s~.a~N',,~~(t~ ~ ~~'~'~iP~~~`~~','~-r•~f~~'~.'.~-!Y"f~~jµ~A~X~'~ _...,;~~~' ., ~,E: .. cu`~''# '~ 4 ~~~'i'fy ,R T.'~. ~ ,.,, ~`i c+F{''~Sf'~t~R ~+'`~lrt V~^'9~35~~tSF ~'7'~i~ 7 ~,. .. :~ i ~ x ; _ ' '•/i~3 itj sip,', ~ - - .. ~ . ti,~ :~ ,+~ ~ r-. ' 'i , , hp t ~ r 5~~ I 4i~ !{ ~ ra t ~j1 Y ~ r~i" ~:~ ~ ~ ~h i ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ .,. s ` .n rhs;~ Y f ~ ~ ~;~:. Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 14 of 48 respond to the gentleman's concerns about the weekend momings, Sunday momings. We actually do have control over who rents -- uses our facility. We actually do put those stipulations in there. So, we certainly wouldn't want people out on our field causing a ruckus on a Sunday morning. That's not acceptable and we wouldn't allow °` that to happen. But I'm here to represent my students and our programs and that's what programs do, they play the music before, during, and -- you know, that's what we do. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Stands, now that the ball fields are complete and everything and installed, what type of maintenance would go on up there where maybe maintenance people would be playing music over the intercom? t~`~ Stands: That I don't know. I was not aware that any maintenance people are playing -- ~. , ~ playing music. And to tell you what other kind of maintenance -- I'm going to hope that all the student facility doesn't break down, so we shouldn't need a whole lot of \~''~` maintenance. I'm trying to think in terms of the team I could see -- again, the players being out there working on their own fields possibly playing some music, but, really, I `-' ~~ think we are talking about -- as far as the school is concerned, during the games and, ~4 then, the practices. '~~ti~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you. `_ ~' O'Brien: I have one question, Madam Chair. Who has access -- who controls the sound box, if you will, the sound room -- I mean it sounds like it's almost open for anybody to come in there and use the field for practice and other things to utilize that system. ~,~~ >~ _a. ;i ,y'~l =. Stands: There is legal access and there is forced entry and, obviously, our system was tampered with and it's -- someone easily got into it. But it is -- it is locked. It should be locked and during practice and games the coach, athletic director, and administrator would have access to that. O'Brien: So, that's the normal -- i Stands: Certainly. O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Any other questions? Thank you. Stands: You're welcome. Nary: Madam Chairman? Madam Chairman, just for the Commission's benefit, I was looking through the city of Boise's code, since we have talked about their park regulation. In the city of Boise's code for their parks it is 62 decibels, measured from 20 feet from the device is what's allowed. The issue here -- and maybe I'm the only one li R ~ y'F 5 l ~~ E, (' m~ ~ S f d ~ ~~. ,S ~... ' S r. _ p d -_ .t 's t,, ~~ x~, c rao ,d ~~a f i 4 ~~ _r: F .:z~ ~' t ~~: ~7 ti ~. ~ i+", '~'. r ~$ ~~ _ ~ Y~ 4~+*,~~;`~ ~C~f? F .~ ;; t. . ;_~~~; .;,,. ;.~~ ;. ,;y- ,;-; 4 t F'.~ -:-~- ~S;iA~ i3: ~`y~, _.:,:-~ ~,, Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 15 of 48 that wasn't understanding it -- all we are talking about in this CU is the amplification device that's for the field. If someone were to be out there, a custodial person, a maintenance person, and they had a radio that was louder than 60 decibels, that's not regulated by this CUP. That's actually not prohibited by the city code. So, this is only to regulate the use of the amplification system for the field. So, the Commission certainly has the ability to limit how that amplification system is used. But since there was testimony about that, I thought you'd like to know at least that it's 62 decibels in the city of Boise for their parks. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to testify? Would you like to close the public hearing? Marshall: Did the applicant get a -- Newton-Huckabay: Oh. The applicant -- sorry. Told you guys I'm a rookie at this part of it. Sullivan: Thank you, Madam Chair and Commissioners. You know, I just want to say that I think the Meridian School District will be good neighbors and they will try to -- I mean I don't think they are going to be playing music from 8:00 to 10:00 constantly. I mean they -- they will keep it to baseball games and I think they will honor the privacy of the neighbors next to them. I mean they have so far, so I just don't want you to think they are going to take advantage of this and keep on going continuously, so -- thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Rohm: Madam Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: I move we close the public hearing on CUP 08-024. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Discussion on this application? Rohm: Madam Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 16 of 48 Rohm: I in some way understand where the public concerns are about music -- there is a lot of music I don't like period at any decibel level, but the fact of the matter is is there `~ ~ is diffelring -- :; E4,. ~; '~. ., ;, ~:,., a, . ~~,, A i ,': -1 ,. ~~~;: ~- ~1`,. ~~ Nary: Mr. Rohm, can you pull the mike a little bit closer to you. You were turning the other direction. I'm sorry. Rohm: Okay. All right. Boy. In any case, I think that this CUP is about decibel level at the -- at the property line more so than the content of -- of that decibel level and it would be my opinion that we should have our motion address that and not the content and -- and presume that the applicant will be a good neighbor and be very aware that additional music outside of normal operations is -- should be held to a minimum. End of comments. Marshall: Madam Chair? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: I second Commissioner Rohm's comments about content. I don't think that's our place to be able to limit or control content. As far as noise and the volume, it appears that everybody's in agreement that the 60 decibel limit at the property line -- I agree that -- that being able to hear that constantly throughout the day would be very annoying and problematic. But, yet, to limit when they can do it to only a few short hours is also problematic, because, then, you know, when can they have baseball games, when can they have softball games, things like that. That's very problematic as well. I think it best to -- I have to point out that I live by a high school and they have done an exceptional job at trying to be a good neighbor and have gone overboard in trying to do that. Yet they have a loud PA system and they have been broadcasting their football games and they have music and the crowd roaring and at the same time I appreciate the fact that they try to limit it to the game and those hours just pre and just post and not significant other hours. If they were to do so, I would complain to the school district and I'm sure a number of my neighbors would as well. But the hours of operation -- I don't think we can limit a baseball game to so many hours or what time of day it should be played, other than not at night. Should be dulring waking hours. So, I feel the hours given are appropriate and I feel that the decibel level has been arrived at with everybody in agreement at that level and I'm sorry not everybody agrees on the content, but I don't think that's our place to get into. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien? O'Brien: Yes, Madam Chair. I agree with both the Commissioners on the content, as well as the hours. I think the 8:00 to 10:00 is appropriate. I'm not sure, Mr. Nary, if you saw in the parks recreation, is there a specific time frame, like the weekends where they cannot use PA systems, other things, they just have no -- like no Sunday mornings or something? '1 ~~Gti.l;. L V ~~1 ~ ~• ~ y. ~ - F.. - ~ ~ ~ ~~ _ { f t s. r~ . x• i ; -- ~ ~ ~y e y i ~ ~ f~ ~~,~'_ ~ ~, g +, '~' ~.~7;.. ~ ~. ~ .t ,~., f :1: ~~, ..: d A l 4 E~~ ~ {T.r`1~T~-2y F _ ~ _ ~ ~cE. ~-- __ _ ~ ii ~~py^} ~'}~! Fah ' ~~P' ~ ~,~ .z~ ~,.{ ~'°<. ~' "' u. ~~ ~ ~r-~ ~, ,,,~ t: sn5,~f+~. .r.. ~~ -~ ;~,,, ~~~ ", ~" -~- ~~ ~; `~~ ,. ~~`.: ~~a~ , ~ ~,,. t ; `~~.., ~fx z' ~Rr ~` ~~ M r T` ~x, R.u~ ~~. . ~~ { ,~a ak<. =~^~i~_ ~ ,' `~e~ ;fi ~' ~< ~~ ~.~ . ~tif, h ;~:: ~~~.~ '°y}~ , ~. L ~~ _ ~ `yT-0 ,{ u~u ",'lW~ ~L ! ~-+, w~ ~rst; . ~. ~~ ~~~r 3~ ~~~: ~< <~ t, . ~. ~FrirF _. q 'aS ~ ~: ~: ~~4 n- 4 ' rn u ~' ~~ ~~ ,t.. 1 7~ f IYfZ t R~`}~kr ~. ~C ._aI ,' ,~~w~, ~~.=4~~, ~~~_ 5. .~ ~. s`., .-'~~ , ' c ~ L .L , . , ,r y. '' ~~' c' ' ~f ~ FY Y+ j h , } j ~t~ I ti ~ ~~+f }'~k S [+ ~ ,.!k .~a-. y j, i ~'^ .ct ,~' , ~~ ' ~ ~' ` [ ~__. Y}`~ H• x S' Meridian Planning & Zoning November Z0, 2008 Page 17 of 48 Nary: Madam Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner O'Brien, I mean you're talking about the city of Boise's regulation? O'Brien: Yes. Nary: The 62 decibel limit from the source is anytime the park is open requirement. They can get a permit for the parks that have PA systems. Obviously not all of them do. But they can purchase a permit and, then, at that point the permit will limit whatever the hours are. O'Brien: Okay. Okay. Thank you. That answered that question, so I don't know if there is a permit process for this -- for a ball game to start at 8:00 o'clock on Sunday morning if that -- if we should limit that or not and with that, if there is going to be PA systems or music being played at that time, I don't think that's appropriate. I think that needs to be managed by of the school district. And I don't know how that's going to be policed. So, I -- that's my concern is -- is certainly the weekend or the Sunday aspect of it and it sounds like that was already addressed, that they wouldn't allow it to happen. So, might have to take their word for it for that. I don't have anything further with that. I think it's -- I think the staff did a good job in preparing the hours and limitations and the fact that they went through a lot of testing, I think that was appropriate and I think that's the way to go. That's all I have. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I would just have one comment -- question. I'm not so concerned with content. I mean I would be concerned if it was obscene, obviously, coming over the PA system, but as context and when that -- the PA system is used in conjunction with sporting events on that facility -- is that something that can be referenced in the CUP or be appropriate that the PA system is to be used in conjunction with only sporting activities or -- I mean is it -- Nary: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I mean certainly -- again, you can -- as part of this CUP, within reason, you can place whatever restrictions -- my assumption is is that it's a baseball field, they area probably not going to use it for other events, but I don't know that. So, certainly if you want to limit it to just the events that are being used with the permission of the school, yeah, obviously, as the principal stated, I mean they have had an issue -- an incident of vandalism and they have other of those things. Obviously, the school can't regulate that. But if you want to make it tied to the events on the grounds, you certainly can do that. I'm not sure that gets you a lot further, but it can be limited to that. Marshall: Madam Chair. That does limit you now if you had a half hour homecoming rally before the parade or something like that, you wouldn't be able to hold that if you tied it to a sporting event. Newton-Huckabay: If you were tying it to a school -- permission of the school, I suppose you -- well, no, that's pretty open ended. Okay. . ., .'..y rt, w9 `-.,'_'I:l~" 4 I'... rte. K tT _ ;r s . t' A I~ 7 ~ ~) ~ ~ 8 ^ i ~ yy~ ~ ' is'v 1? , r ~ }}T..~ i r i l ~~ 1.} y,,~ , r ^S ~l+r't f6~7 ;~ x _ 1 5 P: i ,! -~ t, ~+5 ~- [fin` '' C ~ 1" ~ K 3~ ~ 1 ~ ~~ (~ ~~ ~' ~ ~ '~ ~ N ' ~ ~tK r ' . J +. ~ r.« ,pit t r 'S5E T~~kE,}.x ~F2at~~1 ~rY"'F ~~ ~Pi~ 7 ,* b' rtt.~ C ~' ..~i; -t~.1` a:'at ~.~g iCSt" r Y4~Y~ ttit~.h µ,3~sey 'Y`k ''~i ~ t ( . . .Y'; - h .fi , ., . , { y .FI'" C~ i .1 / a I _ ~~ h L y, .ti 2 ~ ~ f }i} ;p, ~ ~ ~~ },y ~~ v~ f ~/ ~yC h~~d Ef.f ;'': ' ll~(C13~`r ~~` Y ! 4 `` MM I,,~~~(/, r~,:y ~1l ~ ~~} ~ tf.., ~r"€NR~ jh ~ 4 d J .u~~y ,~[f ley ~ ;. ~ J ~ ~ s f.: f S ^Nw~.1 h ,.f r: ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~Y i .. ~ - -~~~ ' ~ ~ k a ~ ~'~ It .€'a t { s ~ ~ 4 +} J i'f'%r~R Ar , 5 ;'. t` t` T~{. ~i rk Z ~ ~~ i ~'".i _ ,~. Y~ `~W}4 .RIf C'Tk ~ M `.Q''~? ~i 7 t. ~j' FL F4, ~ ~ 4 { ~'1~~~ t ~, r 'f~ + n Y ~~ `'1 ~~~ ~ ~ ' ~~1 a~C`ITil~ S d.T {~ja~ ~ti~ _ n.~ 1~, t 7'~'J t ~';,~'~57. ~ '. ~ 5-JL4/e~^t~ H { ;~y r ~'+'~~kTl'ie .Jtf "~4,F~ { ~ -.. it '4 ,~~ ft jv .,. ~ { 1{ uH r~~~~~ ~3~~ T`R~~yt~ . ~*-a t , -~;,~ by K x r 1.. S ~',~~ ~ l . S P'~ t l .~ . ... t~$i ft". ~'F3~ll~Yn O'~ ~fi'~+{}~y 1.'~{~ ~~u + _'n ~ 1n', M,.fr.C tt~:i;X~ _ 1~'er+n ...~w Sr. 5~r1-_H~~ ~ Lk~~'i .v1~~~,~ ~ .,s h 3 ~ ~'t y`:d4y ~f~~,~y~i+~ ~. Hty( 1"~ F ,. ,,~~ J 1H?'~ ~ cr t ~ ~._, + r°~ir ,~ 1`~n ~`; i r 4 }~ y~ C ~~ ,~ t~ .1~ .mil ~ F1 S .y i1J~ ~, j2 1 _ .. F, ~ - ~ ~ ~ ti ~'''htir p ,. Ya~+ . 'J L .. y e" ~ ~ ry~ f'~~ f. .. r~s _ _ . 3 ^G't7GFF,'~ 4r i ~, L ~. - 'k ~~ ~'t~,~frj~ `%Il~lY' ~~ ~ 4~~ ~}. 4i ~ ~h ~ '~ ~ ~ ~ rf'~4 ..~.: ' ., l a,' - ' ~ .~~1~ yV~ t i" i Lr-L.a. .F'z. .. .. ._ ~a . _. U~ Meridian Planning & Zoning N b 20 2008 ovem er , Page 18 of 48 :~, Marshall: They'd have to have a lock on it. ~:_ ~ ' Newton-Huckabay: Got you. Rohm: Madam Chair? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. ~;i~ t: .t Rohm: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve file ~`'~"'" number CUP 08-024, as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of October ~~~ 20th, with no modifications to the conditions of approval. I further move to direct staff to ~: prepare an appropriate findings document to be considered at the next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing on their date of -- what is it? December 4th? Newton-Huckabay: Do we need to reference the 60 decibels? That's not actually in the ~ staff report. % ,~ 3,^. _. Rohm: If it's not in the staff report and had a limit to 60 decibels at the property line for ~~ ~ ';" any broadcast over the PA system -- Wafters: Excuse me, Madam Chair. And if I may interrupt for just a moment, if the Commission does not want to require the applicant to relocate those speakers, that is ~~ included currently as a condition of approval, 1.1 .A, that should be stricken. ~. ~~ Rohm: And without relocating the speakers they were able to maintain the 60 db at the s` property line? ~y4 ,. ~.. Y s z';~, Wafters: That is what they stated, yes. Rohm: -Okay. And what's the number again? ~'~ ~: = Wafters: 1.1.A. . ,~ Rohm: 1.1 .A. And, additionally, I move that we drop the modification of 1.1.A and ~i ~ ~ ,.r T.(~• remove it from the staff report. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor say aye. Opposed? T-' O'Brien: Aye. ~,~. r:-~ , Newton-Huckabay: I didn't vote, so we need to go again. All those in favor say aye. ;, Opposed? O'Brien: I didn't hear the -- ~ T~,: ~: j,, ~. . _ . : ~ . r;;~~' ;,4 ~ M x -~; x ~__ r,~g ~ .: x ~,~;~l ;;~, Y~1 ;~' ~~, N -~, ~. l ,, ., ~_ Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 19 of 48 Marshall: To vote again. You vote nay. Newton-Huckabay: Opposed? O'Brien: Aye. Newton-Huckabay: Motion carries. Three ayes to one nay. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT. Item 9: Public Hearing: RZ 08-008 Request for Rezone of 12.76 acres from TN- R to TN-C for Beacon at Southridge by Eastern Washington -Idaho Synod of the ELCA -south of Overland Road, approximately 800 feet west of Linder Road: Newton-Huckabay: Next item on the agenda is RZ 08-008, the Beacon at South Ridge. I'd like to open that public hearing with starting with the staff report. Wafters: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the application before you is a rezone request of 12.76 acres from TN-R to TN-C zoning. The property is located on the south side of West Overland Road, approximately a quarter mile west of South Linder Road. Currently consists of vacant agricultural land. The Comprehensive Plan designation for this property -- it's within the Ten Mile interchange specific area and it is designated mixed use commercial and medium density residential, which complies with the TN-C district the applicant is requesting. This site was before you here recently, a couple three weeks ago. So, a Conditional Use Permit for an assisted living facility on this site. As a condition of approval of that application the applicant was required to come back with a rezone of this property. The property was split zoned TN-C and TN-R and the applicant wishes to rezone the TN-R portion to TN-C, so that the property is just under one zone. Let me quickly go over -- this is the vicinity map. This is the aerial of the property. This is the site plan that was approved with the Conditional Use Permit for the assisted living facility. There are four brownstone structures, consisting of 16 units per building, for a total of 64 residential units proposed on the southwest portion of this site. The assisted living facility was 87,757 square feet, with 187 beds. These are elevations of the building. These were all tied to Conditional Use Permit, the elevations and the site plan. This is just a map showing the assisted living facility and how the current zoning kind of breaks up that property. Currently there is -- the four story assisted living facility is split in half by the zones. The applicant submitted written testimony in response to the staff report stating that they were in agreement with' the staff report. Staff is recommending approval of the rezone request. Staff will stand for any questions the Commission may have at this time. Newton-Huckabay: Any questions? Would the applicant like to come forward? ~~~ Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 20 of 48 Elg: Thank you. My name is Van Elg, 462 East Shore, No. 100. I'm with The Land Group and representing the owners tonight. I guess I can go with the long version or ~~~ the short version. I vote for the short one. We have got a -- do I have to use your pen? r.:- , ~ ~ ~ F Wafters: I believe so. K Elg: Okay. ., ~y~~.~ ' ...-'. ~~<° ~ Canning: Or you can use your finger. One or the other. ~~ Elg: Oh, can you? You can use your finger? Okay. Just to give you an idea -- I won't _~ use this too much. The orange area right there, the lighter orange or the yellowish area, the property is rezoned for the Beacon at South Ridge. As Sonya pointed out, there is a split zone on it. A portion of the property is TN-C and TN-R, which complicates matters and we discussed various options, most of which would require some form of a waiver or a variance in the future if we didn't get the rezone done. So, the result, the '~~ conditional use was -- one of the conditions was that we rezone the site appropriately. ''~~ So, to simplify matters we have rezoned the entire area of the Beacon at South Ridge site to TN-C. There were no members present -- or no neighbors present at the neighborhood meeting that I attended, so I got to watch a Boise State game while I ~... ' : waiting and they came to the last meeting for the conditional use and we discussed that -- with them while they were out in the foyer and they indicated that they didn't have any '`'`' problem with that. I don't think I see anybody here tonight that was at the last meeting ~ so, with that I will stand for any questions you might have and -- okay. ~:__a ; ''_. Rohm: Seems appropriate. ~ _; -' Elg: All right. Thank you. 9 ~.' Y - ~9 - ' :; ~ O'Brien: I have a question. ~r t, :-.i ~ ~~k Elg: Oh, sure. ' 'z'LL' ' O Brien: Madam Chair. How long will this overall development take to put together. ' ~.~~~ mean there is a library and there is a lot of different activities, different phases, if you ;~ -,;.,,,,~; will. Just curious what your take is on that. ~v, r h' E ~ Elg: You know, if you would have asked me that a year and a half ago, I would have ~~` probably told you something different. I don't know what this -- I don't know what the ~ '~~~ outlay is now. I'm sure it's -- it's slowed down to probably be in smaller phases for the ~ -' ~,~~~;F developer. His absorption rate is certainly going to be less than what it would have ,,:,;. z_: been a year and a half ago, so -- but I think the Beacon at South Ridge, they plan on ~' .: moving forward fairly quickly. They are talking about making it main stream if they can I ~' `'~j and so with that I think that you will probably see that be somewhat of a catalyst for South Ridge and some of the things that will happen out there. That's what we are -~ ~ hoping. ;~- 4 .• ;~ „~ ~'.: , _ : M % y ~ ~~ ~J' Jx~Y~$u~ R' ~t'i+x "'tea" : 2 ;a '° ~ r . _~ z .4 ~ i r ~. -,,e ~. { z ~wr ,' Fi* vr- f:*.,~., . ..4. . :k.A~. ~. .. m.... [~A~`.. #..: .d i.~...:. .~ ~i .. .. ... ... .,.•.F #..~ 5 t 3 ... .. +-f"i:1 ~"J~+., x{n.... Meridian Planriing & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 21 of 48 O'Brien: Thank you. That's what I was looking for. Elg: Okay. Thank you. 4~~. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. That is the only person I had signed up was Van Elg. Would anyone else like to testify? Seeing no one, we will need no rebuttal. Would you `~ like to close the hearing? Rohm: Madam Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. ~~~`~ Rohm: I would like to move to close the public hearing on RZ 08-008. O'Brien: Second. '.F_ Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carried. rig. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Any discussion? Rohm: I think this is just something that is a natural progression for this project to move forward. It was -- it was at our request that the rezone application be made, so it appears as if we are getting everything lined up and that's the route that we should be going. 'y~.4 Marshall: My only thought is maybe none of the neighbors showed up because they were watching the Boise State game. I would agree that we asked for this and here it Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien? O'B'rien: It think it's a good project and I agree with the way it's going. I think it's good for the comm ni u t. Y `F _ Newton-Huckabay: I'd just say I actually wasn't in favor of the South Ridge project from - the beginning, but I certainly want the zoning to mach up with the use that was actually ultimately approved by City Council, so we will move forward with the motion. ,, ,;,~. O'Brien: Madam Chair? M "~ ,,` ,~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien. y~.,A'~. _,~ ~ O'Brien: After considering -- I'm sorry? .~; ,:; ~~; Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 22 of 48 i'_ .- ,',rte Newton-Huckabay: Go ahead. ,. ~'~''' O'Brien: After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to approve "' `~ file number RZ 08-008 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of November j~ ~; 20th, 2008, with no modifications. Marshall: Second. ~ Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor. Opposed? Motion carries. `x~'`' MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. _ Item 10: Public Hearing: CUP 08-030 Request for Conditional Use Permit for an indoor recreation facility in an L-O zoning district for Neighborhood Fitness by Kenneth Barr - 2270 W. Everest Lane: Newton-Huckabay: Okay. It's 8:00 o'clock. Would we like a break or would you like to ~~_° cant' on? Keep going. Okay. I'd like to open public hearing CUP 08-030 for Neighborhood Fitness and we will start with the staff report. Wafters: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the application before you is a Conditional Use Permit for an indoor recreation facility in an L-O zoning district. The property is located on the south side of Chinden Boulevard on the east side of Long Lakes Way at 2270 West Everest Lane. The surrounding uses -- to the north is vacant land, zoned TN-C. To the east office uses, zoned L-O. To the south are single family homes in Lochsa Falls Subdivision, zoned R-4. And to the west is a future school site, zone R-4. This is an aerial view of the property. There is an existing structure on the site that is not shown on the aerial. This is an older aerial of the property. Here is a copy of the proposed site plan. It shows the existing building, parking lot, and landscaping. Off street parking is provided on the site that exceeds the city's ~" requirements. This is an overall site plan just showing that business complex and '~` where that lot is located in that. These are elevations of the existing building. The applicant is proposing a 24 hour operation for the fitness facility. However, the UDC limits business hours of operation in the L-O district to 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Written testimony has been received from Tom Rugg and a response to the staff report from the applicant was submitted. Staff recommends approval of the Conditional Use Permit ':. request per the conditions in the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions the ~: ' ~~~ Commission may have at this time. Newton-Huckabay: Any questions for staff? ' °°~~~' O'Brien: I have none. r Marshall: I do. Do we have any other 24 hour fitness facilities in town that are allowed 'i to operate 24 hours? ;, .. a ~~ :~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 23 of 48 Wafters: Madam Chair, Commissioners, I believe we do. However, a recent zoning amendment was approved that limits the hours of operation in the L-O and the C-N districts to 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. Marshall: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to come forward? Barr: Good evening, Madam Chair and Commissioners. My name is Ken Barr. I live at .`~ 2513 West Hungry Creek Street in Meridian. I went through the staff report and, really, ~~~' the only question or -- I guess the only question I have is a 24 hour operation. I would like to be able to be open 24 hours. It accommodates some of those that have off hours 'f at work. Generally, there is not very many that would use the facility at that time. Just a handful. But it does -- it does help those that, you know, work at Micron all day long and want to have somewhere to workout. In my letter I stated if that's an absolute no, then, maybe we could reduce that to like 5:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. So, that's what I'm '` requesting, if possible. Thank you. Marshall: Mr. Barr -- Madam Chairman? >~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall. Marshall: Mr. Barr, I do have a question relating to Mr. Rugg's letter to the city. Could I ask you to -- do you have any idea of what anticipated parking requirements are going to be for your facility at any peak hours and what those peak hours might be? `~t~ Ban-: I do. I didn't bring that with me, but off the top of my head here, I did watch another facility, Anytime Fitness, in Meridian to see what their parking situation was, how many people use their facility through different times of day and night and I actually have a -- I had that written up. I don't have it with me. Sorry. But generally there are only probably between two and eight cars there. I don't think I have ever seen more than maybe eight cars there at one time, so -- and that's usually -- usually in the moming, early moming, and, then, like after work. So, somewhere between 6:00 and _i 10:00. So, that's when you have the majority of people. Marshall: So, you would say that the peak hours are typically off work hours, outside of the 8:00 to 5:00? Barr: Yeah. Marshall: Appreciate that. And you would suggest that your facility would be }~ comparable in size to this Anytime Fitness? w ,- "t ~' ~' Meridian Plannin & Zonin x~: ` F November 20, 2008 '~ _ Page 24 of 48 ~:::~~~ ~'~ Ban-: It's a little bigger, but I have talked to other -- you know, other facilities as well that are a little bigger and they are pretty close to the same. So, that's what I have come up ~t`~` with. Marshall: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. ~ Barr: Thanks. Newton-Huckabay: Sarah Liddell? Liddell: Thanks. My name is Sarah Liddell. I'm the owner of an adjacent building and I wanted to bring up concerns about parking. If you could go back to that picture of the site plan with the buildings in place and the parking? I'm building five and if you notice ~'' his building is actually larger than mine and it seems to have less parking. The concem I have is how many employees, you know, at the facility it takes to run that kind of facility. I have no idea. And, then, also in my experience most fitness places two to eight people seems like a very small number from gyms I have been members of. So, the big concem I have is for parking. I anticipate overflow parking would go to my building and so that's just my question is is there enough parking to sustain that ~` `` business. I'm personally in favor of a 24 hour fitness facility and especially in that location. I think the trafFc would benefit my business. But I was wondering if that's ~''~ been addressed and if those concerns have been thought of and how it's going to affect everybody. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Wafters: Madam Chair, if the Commission would like, I can maybe address some of the parking concems. '~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. `-> i Wafters: There are 16 parking spaces required by ordinance. Twenty-one are provided <.. on the site, including two handicap stalls. The applicant referenced that he didn't have ~- his numbers that he observed on the parking at the other fitness facility. I do have those here. He submitted that with the application. Week days -- I can run through those real quick. Week days from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m., seven to nine cars. Week days 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., two to four cars. That would be during the main, probably, business hours of operation of the surrounding businesses there. Week days, 4:00 to 8:00 p.m., ten to 12 cars. And week days from 8:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m., zero to four cars. Weekends, 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m., four to eight cars. Weekends, 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., six to ten cars. Weekends 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m., zero to eight cars. And weekends 8:00 p.m. 12:00 a.m., two to eight cars, if that helps. Marshall: It does. Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning }'" November 20, 2008 ' Page 25 of 48 Newton-Huckabay: Sonya, I have a quick question. Building one is already done -- are all these buildings up in this development? ~~~, ~ Wafters: Yes. All the buildings are existing. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you. We have one other person signed up. Ken -- Ken Barr. That was the applicant. Okay. Was there anyone else who would like to testify? Mr. Barr, if you would like to respond. ~ Barr: Thank you, Sonya, for having that. That was one of the questions that -- the only actually question that we had when we did a neighborhood meeting. I forget, I think it's the owner of building one, and right now during the day -- actually, during the night, too -- building five -- the west side of building five there is no cars parked there that I know of generally during the day and over here on the west side of building one, most of those spots are also vacant during the day as well. So, I just -- I just believe that there is plenty of parking. So, I guess that's it. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Barr, how many staff will you have on -- Ban-: Generally, in the beginning it would just be me staffing the building and we will ~~` have personal trainers and people like that during the day, probably between 1:00 to 3:00 of those coming in and out through the day. Eventually -- it may not even be that much, because this is aself-contained type of business. It's all monitored with a door ~' and cards so people can come and go as the choose. So, down the road it probably, r~': again, still won't be more than probably one to three. ~:~ Newton-Huckabay: So, this has aself-service business model, similar to the other -- -:~ Barr: And during the day mostly is when we will have probably, you know, between one to three people there that are teaching. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. '}`''~ Barr: So -- ''~~ Newton-Huckabay: Any other questions for Mr. Ban-? ~,', Barr: Thanks. Newton-Huckabay: I do believe that Mr. Nary was going to check into the hours of operation issue for us. Nary: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I did look at that this afternoon prior to tonight's meeting. The standard -- and you have had this discussion already -- a prior application there were not hours in our ordinance. There are now as to this type of Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 26 of 48 facility -- or these type -- any operations within this type of zone and what their limitations are. Those are not variable by Conditional Use Permit. This type of facility and the use that it is requires a Conditional Use Permit to operate at all. So, the hours _ are not within your purview for the CU, only whether or not the use is allowed and what other impacts the use itself may have to the neighborhood. That's what the CU would „_ be addressing. f },~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. So, that we cannot make any -- we can only approve a CU without any recommendations to hours? Nary: That's correct. You can't change the hours by the CU. ;_ ~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Rohm: That clears things up for me. Newton-Huckabay: Uh? Rohm: That clears things up for me. :~~ Newton-Huckabay: That's what I'm here for. `'~ Rohm: Wow. Good job. <:~ Newton-Huckabay: It's to get his attention. Do I have a motion? Marshall: Madam Chair, I move that we close the public hearing CUP 08-030. O'Brien: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Discussion? ` '' Marshall: To be honest, all the -- I'm sure all the parking that I heard were typically -- _~ the peaks were off hours -- off working hours. And even those didn't come close to exceeding the number of parking stalls available. So, to be honest, I don't believe there should be a serious overFlow parking problem at all. I would not suggest that we could count on any of the parking stalls outside of building five there -- or that building, building six, we couldn't count on the west parking, because other businesses may come in and use those later -- the building to the south, other businesses may use that _:T later, so you can't count on that for parking, but the largest number I was hearing were ten to 12 typically on the off peak hours and there are 21 spaces available, with a ~~., maximum of possibly three people and if Mr. Barr's there, even four, I count 16 at max Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 - Page 27 of 48 with the 21 available stalls, that gives you a cushion of five more stalls and I don't see that as being problematic. As far as the hours go, I'm not even going to address that, ~`~'' since it's not within our purview and beyond that I like the project. Canning: Sorry. Madam Chair? I did want to mention that all these projects were - developed together, these units, so they do have a cross-parking and access agreement amongst them. ,~. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. O'Brien: I have nothing to add. ':'~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm? `-:~~ Rohm: I'm done. Newton-Huckabay: Someone like to make a motion? Marshall: Madam Chair, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I '~-~ move to approve file number CUP 08-030 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of November 20th, 2008, with no modifications. I further move to direct staff to prepare an appropriate findings document to be considered at the next Planning ''" and Zoning Commission hearing on December 4th, 2008. `; ~` Rohm: Second. :~ . Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Now it's appropriate for us to take a break, so we are going to reconvene at 8:30. u (Recess.) ~`~- Item 11: Public Hearing: CUP 08-029 Request for Conditional Use Permit approval to construct two drive thru establishments in a C-G zoning district within 300 feet of other drive thru establishments for Sonic /Taco Time by Boise Food Service -north of E. Overland Road, east side of S. ". Millennium Way and south side of E. Cinema Drive: Newton-Huckabay: We will open the public hearing for CUP 08-029 for Sonic and Taco Time and start with the staff report. "5 i~: ~; >.~ :: ~4'.. _ `/':. Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. Before you tonight is a CUP for two drive-thru restaurants, with another drive-thru facility. Currently ^, ,~ •~:~ ~ t ~~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 ' ~; Page 28 of 48 ; ; surrounding the site you have commercial property zoned C-G. On the west side are multi-tenant buildings with multiple uses. On the east side you have the same multiple ~~': ~~: tenant buildings. To the north you have the Cinema, Harley Davidson dealership, zoned C-G and, then, again to the south of the site is a Dutch Brothers kiosk, zoned C- .,~ . G. Here is the aerial of the site. Right now it's a little bit built out more than what you '~~`~ "~'' ~~' ~ see here, but that pretty much shows you what's happening in the area. This is the site plan that the applicant has submitted to us. This is a revised site plan based on conditions in the staff report. Try to get this mouse here to try to follow this arrow on a white background. Might be a little difficult. But here is where they are proposing Taco Time drive-thru, which is 2,250 square feet and, then, here is the Sonic drive-thru, which ~`~' is roughly 1,526 square feet. One thing these driveway approaches -- this approach ~~ right here is the access --one of the access points into this development and, then, both ~~ ~ ; t, } these access points, the one to the north as well, both these are existing driveways. _ So, one thing I would point out is this north driveway has to shift approximately 25 feet to accommodate the applicant's design that you see before you tonight. The other thing `'' I would point out is when this Dutch Brothers CZC was approved with the staff -- with the planning department, there was a requirement along the southern boundary here for cross-access and we have met with the applicant at some pre-applicant meetings and we didn't feel that two way cross-access would benefit the site, so we agreed with the applicant to just allow them to have aone-way exit here and, then, go up and use that ~~ ~; ~ ` ~' access to get out 'of the Dutch Brother's site. So, these are the changes that we have had in place. The other thing that I would want to point out to you, if you can follow my mouse here and as I head north, this is the current property line as we speak tonight. This portion here is on a separate parcel or not on the two parcels as it is platted today. So, what we have conditioned in the staff report, the applicant would have to submit a ~"' property boundary adjustment to staff and have that approved and recorded prior to commencing any building on this site or the other option the applicant has is he can get permission from the owner of that property and submit that affidavit with his permission ~ ~`' to go ahead and do construction on that building until such time as that property ;; boundary adjustment is in place. So, I wanted to bring that out to you, too. The other thing is you would notice on this site plan that the applicant has provided some pedestrian connections here. There is some highlighted crosswalks to help facilitate pedestrian movement within the facility. There is signage here. Watch -- caution, _~' pedestrian crossing located throughout the site. and, then, also there is do not enter signs and moving traffic -- excuse me -- do not enter and one way traffic signs on the ~~~; site as well. One thing I did bring out in the staff report and, really, it's up to you tonight, ~,.:.~ we have an outstanding issue for you, because there really is -- there is a potential to have a traffic movement issue with this site. Basically -- particularly when you have ~'- :` three drive-thrus in a row like you do here. There is a potential to have some congestion and some traffic jams within this project. So, if you can follow my mouse ~,~ here, here is what I tried to convey in the staff report. Here is one of the main drive ~~~`~~ aisles for this development. We have folks that will try to back out of this facility and you `~:~ have folks here where you have somewhat of a short stacking lane there. You're at ,~'.,~ your peak time, these folks could potentially stack up in this drive aisle blocking these folks from backing out. Then, we have Sonic here with their drive-thru and pickup window that would -- that want to leave and get out of their -- from their pickup orders _}r. ~~~ ,.,,~: ~~ .. y~.; U~a~,. "' ' ` Meridian Planning & Zoning ,~ ~~ November 20, 2008 `'` Page 29 of 48 ~~ ~ and possibly getting out here and conflicting with these folks trying to exit out of here `~t°' z- and, then, you have possibly Dutch Brothers that could come out here and also want to turn out at this site as well. So, that's what I tried to convey in the staff report to you is this site really appropriate for two drive-thru businesses. Really, we are looking at -- we <` are acting on two applications, but they are really three drive-thrus within close proximity to one another, so there is a potential for congestion and conflict during peak times. ~~ This is the landscape map staff evaluated. The applicant is in substantial compliance. Minor changes I won't discuss those in detail with you tonight, they are in the staff report, basically just adding trees. The applicant is in agreement to do that. No issue from them. Here are the elevations that the applicant is proposing again. The Sonic are similar to the ones that you saw with the Southern Springs that had concrete paneling. The menu boards. Their traditional dark gray, silver canopy with the red and ''~"` blue color scheme and, then, Taco Time is dressed up a little bit more and has the ~:;, stucco and stone accent finish. Both restaurants will be featuring outdoor seating areas. The Sonic -- excuse me. The Taco Time has a three foot decorative wall with a lattice -- lattice work over top and, then, again, the Sonic, if you remember, it has an ~',;,~' arched canopy over the front of the facade, so folks can sit out there and eat. Staff is recommending approval of the CUP and I would be happy to answer any questions the Commission may have. Newton-Huckabay: Bill? Parsons: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: Doesn't Dutch Brothers have adrive-thru on each side? Parsons: Madam Chair, that is correct. They have two drive-thrus. Newton-Huckabay: So, we actually have four drive-thrus. Parsons: Technically speaking, yes. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Any questions for staff? O'Brien: Not at this time. Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to come forward, please? Strite: Madam Mayor, Members of the Commission, Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante, Boise. I'm here, along with Kevin Knighten, who is the original developer of Destination '"`` Place, and also David Roberts, who represents Boise Food Services as well. First of all, I'd like to thank staff for the positive staff report and the support for this application and I think probably, unless you have other questions, I'd like to address the comments relative to internal traffic. Speaking with the applicant, who, incidentally, is the franchisee for both Taco Time and Sonic, I asked him to sit down with the folks at the Dutch Brothers, so that we could determine, in fact, what are the peak hours of all three ~:- ,, a~~~t ~~ ~~h ~~x ~ ^ ~ ~~_~' f .~;~ ,~ :_=~° ~.~r y~` t V~ ~~~ ~ ; ~` t - ~R2.~ ~- S ~a,J.. ~ r ~~ S bt',.. .tw.' ,-.,. ,_ - _, ry.;... ~~. w... ', _ Vary _ ' y.~,„ ~ ~€ `,'~ '~ ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 - ~" ~ Page 30 of 48 ~' ~~~ of these operations. As it turns out, the peak hours for Dutch Brothers coffee -- and ~ fir think he told me that it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 percent `°~ happens at 6:00 a.m. in the morning until 9:00 a.m. in the morning. Sonic, on the other ~ ° ~ ~h G, ~~,.~ hand, three percent of their business is in the morning. Their peak hour is what they .~:~ refer to as happy hour is 2:00 to 5:00 and also the Taco Time peak hour is between "".~~~y, 11:30 and 1:30. So, I think what I'm trying to point out to you is that the peak hours s- fluctuate and they vary considerably especially as it relates to the southerly portion and ,,~~r., , the access to the west. Because by the time Taco Time and the Sonic is operational, #~ ~ basically, Dutch Brothers peak hours have been completed. Same thing occurs in the ,~: ,. ~ "a ~"~Y evening as the Taco Time and Sonic go through their sessions. So, I think that was d~ ~`~~~ ; . > important to note. Plus also discussing this with our traffic engineer he says that he felt ~'f ` ~"~~~ r~', ~ that because of the controls that the staff has put on this, as well as the fact that this is " , -~, ~~ an internal circulation system with short stops and little less opportunity for acceleration, ` ~.: the signage in itself should be more than sufficient to avoid any internal conflicts. Now, w`~ looking at the drive-thru for the Taco Time, you will note that right now Taco Time -- and ` ~- ~ I can't verify this because quite frankly I don't think I have ever enjoyed a 45 second r~" , , , wait, but according to Taco Time their average turnover is 45 seconds. Well, if you tti. ~ r{ ~~`'~ have a six car stack, you're going to have a pretty difficult time getting people out into ~~~" ~ ~ ~ }' the drive aisle. Again, I will suggest I have never been lucky enough -- or maybe I order F ' ~ ~ Lti ~ "" greater than most people, but having said that, I think with six cars the second and third .~.}~~~,~~~ ~-~ " ~ car at the bottom of that will have already had orders placed and so I think that the -- ~i~~ ~. ;~~ " 1 certainly that s adequate and it is, in fact, greater than the existing Taco Time that we ~~ did over here at Central Valley corporate park. So, I think the drive-in numbers are ~ _ ~~` certainly illustrative of the fact that they feel -- and certainly as the -- as the franchisee of " : #.~F, both facilities it would not be to his advantage to have internal traffic issues. So, having ~r ' ~ ;°~.. A said that, we have looked at the -- the conditions of approval and we find them all to be ~~` "` ~~ ~ ,~; ~~ r. , certainly acceptable. I did -- I thought I had already taken care of 1.2.C, a letter from ~ -0: the transportation authority when I had the approval from Ada County Highway District. ' ~°{~~ ~ ~ However, if there is another letter that I need to -- need to address we would certainly ~~~ be happy to do that. I have their approval letter and it should be in your packet as well. '~ ~ ~~ _ ~ -~ ~,=~-~~ And I think that's the only issue we have and I guess I would open that up to questions if "` you should have the same. -; F,`~h Newton-Huckabay: I have one question, Mr. Strite. What is the demographic of the { ~~~~ ~. , ` typical Sonic or Taco Time patron? ter s 5 *i ~ ~~ ~_... Strite: Well, I guess you're looking at one. That would be me. You know, I don't know ~'~ that I -- I don't know that I could tell you that. I never even considered asking the ~' N~<3i applicant what demographics he's looking for. I mean I -- you know, as a patron myself ," ~» :~~~ and as I think most people that -- that utilize fast food restaurants I think it's fairly varied. ~~r ~~ - You know, I don't see a lot of young people, other than the employees, using them any ~~~:: 4= ~ more than -- than people my age. So, I guess I would be hard pressed to answer that i 4~ - ,r. question. ,* ,L r }' ,~ ~°`~~ :~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Thank you. ~- r~ ~;. ,~ ~~ _ ,, ,. # F :., ;. ~ ,~ ~ r ti ' ~'~ ~ T.~, ~n : ~ _ ~ - " 7~ ~ ~ : ~~ ~: ~~.. `" r a ~ T ;.~ ~ 3 ~~~~5'^.~.'.: ,'~'d ~~ ~.J #ry ~y.rY ~y ~ ~I~ ~ r.'ir"' ~~ ~ `Y k.• .,,HT.` V::~. ~ ' , 4 ,ik,~~t~.;_ t 5 Y ~ ~ Ci. "~~~ 'F~) ;car _ ~ ~, - y ~ ~ ~ ~ `k 4Q 2:_ « ' b ~ r .1t. kin '. f p~~ k ~ ~ h v7, h~. , ~ ~+° ~ ~, ~ at tt ,~~~iF .' 4 r Y. '~ RR++DD * ,.L 1 3~ pp q' fi P:. - ~ ..j ~ .i t'~e+4 T4~~,~t~~tlaS~"7.. h*~~~ ~tvt'~ r '~ v', ~ ~ ~ ~' ~; x c ~ a f ~~k~F'~ ~#'> ~ F d. s Yr~- ~. .~,~ °`> „~ ~~"~~ ~ `~„ ~ "` CC 4 Y r. -y} ~ - { J `. ~f kJY9 M. ~1~ Y ~ I 6 _ ) / 1 .. ~ t ". r 1 - ~i- ~ti . ~ . .i . ~ ..o- ., tii'~ .ta,Jnk~~c ~.f 4 > <,1 `~,' `i~ ~' r Y ....v ~ _.._.-_.. .. __...i{li r ; a{ Y ) + D~ "Y ~t ~ ~~~ r ,}~ i? rL~#~~ rrt ~~ ~~+~~ ..4, tr' ~ ~'~ ~ ;;.. ~ , Gl ~ 4~ ~~.r s R ~T:` . >`_ . C'. ~' " ~ r. n~~ z..~4~: ` t ~ ) . ~J'' r ~ 4 i 7 `4 i r y~ ~ ~ fl~~ n,`~.r~ i ~°~~3)~` .. ~-, .. ~ t~~1' ~ ~ ~. ,. t Meridian Planning & Zoning ~~- :; November 20, 2008 `~=~~ 1' Page 31 of 48 . O'Brien: Madam Chair, I have a question. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien. ~~ O'Brien: The -- I think maybe after a little bit as far as demographics go, you put two of these very popular places close to each other, Taco Time and the Sonic, is the fact that ~ ~ Mountain View High School is a very, very short distance away and I would anticipate high usage during peak times and I would guess your peak times have changed based _ on the hours of lunch that these children have after school. So, I anticipate that adding ~' to considerable traffic loads, if you will, especially with so many drive-thrus, it's such a ~'~~ small base. I'm concerned with that. Your take on that? ry ~~~~ Strite: Well, again, I think that -- and I guess I would not -- certainly not quarrel with the fact that the peak hour in this particular location may be similar for the two facilities, based on the fact that you do have a high school that's adjacent and, quite frankly, you `` ` have a theater as well. The theater, of course, is operating in late hours -- I believe F~: evening hours, so that's probably not an issue. But I think by providing a secondary ~~: ,, ~~ ~ access to the north, as well as allowing the Dutch Brothers, which I think is really ~: ~'~'' ~ insignificant in terms of traffic. I think that there is -- there is adequate circulation on this site dimensionally and certainly I think with -- with the signage that the staff has requested, I, for myself, I don't believe that the traffic is going to become an issue. And, again, I'm quite certain that the applicant feels the same way or he would not be ~~`~< jeopardizing either one of his entities. ~_~ O'Brien: So, we are making an assumption that the boundary on the east side of the property against Taco Time would -- are we assuming that they are going to have that property available to expand? Strite: Madam Chair, Commissioner O'Brien, we have got the lot line adjustment completed, it's ready for submittal. As a matter of fact, Mr. Knighten, who is the developer, who I mentioned earlier, he's in town today, I spoke to his attorney regarding the cross-access agreement that's also required by the staff, those are in works. The only reason we don't have them here tonight is probably obvious, we wanted to make certain we had approval prior to consummating the required lot line adjustment. ~__.~~ O'Brien: Thank you. That's all I have. ~~ ~ Strite: If I might, Madam Chairman, Mr. Knighten is also the owner of the property in `'~: which we are asking for the additional space, so -- ' O'Brien: Thank you. ~_~ Newton-Huckabay: Any other questions? Thank you. Strite: Thank you. S,;.M~~ ~,: .~~ ?;'t: Meridian Planning & Zoning ~~- ~==, November 20, 2008 r;~w ~' Page 32 of 48 Newton-Huckabay: There is no one signed up to testify at this hearing. If you would ~` like to, please, come forward. ~ ; ~ ,~ ~ Huse: Hi. I am Casey Huse. My address is 1703 Norcrest Court in Boise. Just . `'' ~" ~~: >. thou ht I would mention somethin that struck me as I was lookin at it. If ou fli ed . ~_ ;' the Sonic so that the drive-thru were to the south, you could orient the drive-thru traffic ~'` ` '' to eliminate some of your traffic conflicts at the west entry point, potentially, and that _ might -- I don't know if there is enough room on the site to do that or not, but that could help your traffic flow. It would encourage people utilizing the Sonic to exit through the north end there, rather than having to cross traffic that's coming into the Taco Time. ~, °~`'~'' Again, the designers -- site designers have to see if there is enough room to still accommodate the parking design or not, if they made that change, but it might eliminate ~ ~~ some of the potential traffic congestion. , ~ Newton-Huckabay: Good suggestion. Thank you. Would anyone else like to testify? ~ -.Y=~ Would the applicant like to rebut? Okay. From the audience the applicant does not want to rebut, since they have moved the design all over the site. Who would like to ar::: close the public hearing? Rohm: Madam Chairman? ~~ °- Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. ~~`~ Rohm: I move that we close the public hearing on CUP 08-029. O'Brien: Second. -,; Newton-Huckabay: Discussion? Marshall: Did we want to vote to close that or -- Rohm: We need to vote. ~~ Newton-Huckabay: Oh, yeah, we do, don't we. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Now we can discuss it. ~~` O'Brien: Well, Madam Chair, this thing -- my thing is that I think it's a classic case of `~ trying to put too much in too small of space, similar to a fast food establishment that was along Meridian Road that we covered here not too long ago, it was trying to squeeze this particular space in too small of space where there was conflict with cross-traffic and cross-access, et cetera. So, I think this -- this presents the same kind of problem. I .~ think the demographics, like I mentioned, I think is going to be -- especially during the ~. ~~n~! :~,,r Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 33 of 48 school year, is going to be a lot of high school lunch seekers that's going to try to utilize this -- this establishment, because of the proximity to the school and I think you're going ~' : ~ ^ to see a lot of traffic and bottlenecks for kids trying to get out of there very quickly to . have their lunch and leave. I just -- I just can t see having both those establishments try ,~. 4, ' to squeeze in there. I can see one of them easily do nicely and without any traffic woes, ~'W but two of them with the coffee shop being there right -- being right next to it, I just don't see this working very well. ~';:'1~; Rohm: I thought Meridian School District had closed campus. They do not? =^ ; Nary: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, they have -- I believe it's ninth and tenth graders aren't allowed to leave the campus, but juniors and seniors are. ~'~~ Rohm: Okay. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Only two to a vehicle, though. ~ Marshall: Madam Chair? ^ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall. °`- Marshall: I'm really tom here. I do see potential for bottlenecks, but I keep coming back to it's going to happen at the lunch hour and who does it hurt, other than the owner that =: owns both these establishments. The only cross-access is to the coffee shop that has hours in the morning, they -- all their peak hours are long done before these two have ~`;' any traffic issues. If there are bottlenecks in here, people are going to avoid it. I think `F> there is potential for it. Will it happen? I don't know. Even if there were bottlenecks think we can still get fire and EMS in, because the bottlenecks are so local, people ~a j_: w pulling in and out of the stalls and stuff that are going to have the problems. There is no <' cross-access to any other lots, other than the Dutch Brothers. It's the two facilities that will be having problems with each other if there is a -- if there is a bottleneck problem. ~s `_ They are both owned by the same developer and it's in his best interest to make sure '- there is not and they are coming in and saying in our opinion it's not. I mean I don't want to see bottlenecks, but at the same time if they were two separate entities I'd have ~~'~ probably a little less patience with it, if that makes any sense. ?.=. .~ -0' ~~ O'Brien: I don't think it matters who -- if the -- if it's owned by the same person, people are going to choose one or the other when they go there. It's going to be regulated. Marshall: That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the problem of bottlenecks and who does it hurt and the question is who is hurt if there are bottlenecks here. Well, the customers are going to be hurt, which means the businesses are going to be hurt, because they are not going to come back. O'Brien: Yes, I agree with that. f ~, } k~ 4, ,~' ~~~b ~~~ ~~ h~~ µ ?~y ~~ J'-~1 TM~ 3i3a - ,. Y F ~ a{ }C~~ ~~ I~ ~ i.. n ~~,l y~` '.. '~: yA~k ~ ~ ~~,.~ ~~ .-,` ~ ~` ;_~ r> r ~"' .~~ '~ x ' S ~~~~ S ~ ~3.: _. -a .= J .,..w ;Z-~av~ ~ +1 ~.a ~~yyl,, ~l ..1.. ~. - .:~ 'P _.y~ t y , , N ~,~,r! ~(~^ ~ ~-~ r 4 SY~ L~~r t.' ~~. ~ ... . ~"~`'~'~ Fk ~$ ~;r ~ ~~ its`. F ~._3.; ,~ f; Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 34 of 48 i:::. Marshall: And in this case it's the same owner, owns both of them, and they are feeling that they are not going to bottleneck here. There is nobody else cross-accessing this at a time that is going to be detrimental to them, meaning the new -- I don't know, maybe there is a lot of people get coffee at noon, but they are saying the Dutch Brothers main peak hours are 6:00 to 9:00, well over before that lunch rush. ~;~ ~: Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm? ~` =~ ~::_., ~' '~ Rohm: As far as the traffic flow, I kind of agree with Commissioner Marshall that the 4.. only person that it is going to hurt, if there is congestion, is the applicant themselves and ~:` ~` the things that we need to concern ourselves with, in my opinion, are the safety issues, as far as having access to the property for our fire protection and what have you and .;;>' that is not compromised by congestion in the drive-thrus or otherwise. So, from my '~'~ perspective I think we should move this forward with our blessing. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I, actually -- I wish we had a laser pointer. Are we going to have a solution to that, by the way, a laser pointer solution at some point. Canning: Maybe. Newton-Huckabay: Well, Iwill -- I will do my best. I would like to have seen -- I mean, ~~~ obviously, Idon't -- don't have expertise here, but maybe one that enters in from South ,~~ Millennium Way and the traffic flow pushes it out --out onto East Cinema Drive and one _:`: ~: that maybe is encouraged to come in on East Cinema Drive and out through South Millennium Way, rather than everyone -- everyone accessing and -- predominately on ~'a. 1 South Millennium Way. The thing that strikes me about this is we are talking about all ~, ~ the great signage that we have done so that people know where they are going -- well, ~~ '=~ a really well designed parking lot doesn't need a whole bunch of signage to tell people +i where they need to go and where they can't go, it kind of has a natural flow that makes - sense and if it doesn't have a natural flow that doesn't make sense, then, you need a lot `': ~~ of signs to get people where you want them to go. So, I have -- I have some concerns ~~~_' -- concerns that way. As I was alluding to earlier -- and Commissioner O Brien s commented, too, looking at the demographic, you have a high school that has about '' ~ 2,500 students or some crazy thing that -- I know I have two high school students and ~~ ~', Sonic is definitely their demographic or they are definitely Sonic's demographic and/or ~~''~ `'' Taco Time and they also, behind the wheel of a car, don't know how to read a sign or go i. a ~~ the direction they are supposed to go very well often either, so that said I mean it's an -:: r ; excellent place for this. I would like to see you go back to the drawing board and see if ,fa.~, there isn't a way that you could get a more natural flow, maybe the Taco drive-thrta ~; "` enters, then, off of East Cinema Drive and the Sonic enters in off South Millennium r Way, maybe that would work. I'm not sure -- I'd like to see if it could happen. I think ~~ ~ this is a great place, but I think it's a little cramped area and I think it's confusing to me. ~':' That would be the end of my comments. ~,,. ~~y Rohm: Well, I'm going to make a motion and we will see where it goes. ir`.s•~ti''~^ n K r r ~ Y ~ rt~s~a L. _ F4. _ Y ~ ~t , .; 1F ~~ < ~~.. r'y ~-a!. ~~: se t •1 , ''~,~, .. R, y:. i ~t~~~~ °t ris ;)~ty ~( ~ rs Y~. - S ~:}~n, r~~~~+]1 !F: ~., . ,,:,~ h a ~' ~ ~~ ~ Nit^~,~ ~ ~ ~\~t z~ P.~ ~ ~~wj ? 't' y . .4F ~t~ ~~, a ~ -' +t-~_.~, _ - - Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 35 of 48 Newton-Huckabay: Fair enough. ~~ ~'~~ Rohm: Okay. Madam Chairman? Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: I move that we approve CUP 08-029 as presented in the staff report -- and I'll have to wait for the thing to come back. Okay. And I'd further move to direct staff to prepare a findings document to be considered at the next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing on December 4th, 2008. End of motion. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: So, motion does not carry. We have a tie. Rohm: We are tied. I guess we will have to -- oh, so that we can make this thing work, can I now make a motion to continue it to the next meeting and, then, all five of us could _ be here and we will act on it at that time? Is that appropriate, Mr. Nary? Nary: Madam Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Rohm, yeah, certainly you can do that. I don't know -- I mean as long as Commissioner Rohm is -- or, excuse me, Commissioner Moe is able to be prepared. I'm assuming he should be. Rohm: I think that's the appropriate answer. Marshall: He hasn't heard any of this, so -- Newton-Huckabay: I -- I think maybe we should spend a few more minutes discussing to see if there are some changes we might recommend and could make another motion. ~' " O'Brien: I agree with that. -' ~~ Marshall: Okay. We can go that direction. "~; O'Brien: I agree with Madam Chair, if you will -- I think. I agree with you in that I think '?=~` the applicant should come back with maybe another diagram, another way to address ~, .- ~ the traffic flow and see how we could come up with some means to avoid peak hours. ~~~'~ think we are going to find it's going to be during the high school's lunch program. I think they are great, two popular spots and it is cramped for space, especially for traffic and think if they came back with another design that might address those issues, I think we would be better -- at least we could see something in a diagram that would maybe make ,_ sense and better come up with a -- with a decision. i~ ~.:'~ ~ '~ te'. yti~~~ .~ ;k;~ ~. 4.. { ~. a '-$, ~,; ~. ~,- '~~,,+, ~ ~, ~~ k,- w ~.: ~~ ~~' . `"eF . t :~ e~ ,tom,=; ._ ...,~ ~. ~* ": -f;;' r. ~ 'i ~+r ~~: ;~~: `~:- ~~ '; .,~, ~;<- ~_ ~~ ~~-~ ~ :~R _t ;:. _~. ~ ." ;Y: ``L, .,.: ~. ,..~ a; ~. ~~: Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 36 of 48 Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I think we probably want to reopen the public hearing and give the applicant a chance to respond as to whether or not they would like to continue. Is that appropriate? Is there more discussion to be had before doing that? Rohm: I think as long as the applicant's here that's the best way of doing it, I guess their weigh in as to -- Newton-Huckabay: Before I do that, are there any other comments? Rohm: I have none. Newton-Huckabay: You have none? Commissioner Marshall? Marshall: My simple one hang up on design was simply having the -- the drive-thru on the Sonic crossing traffic to get out. It's crossing oncoming traffic to get out and if you're looking to getting out of there and you're watching oncoming traffic, you see a -- see traffic go past and, then, they shoot out for it, and the problem is you're going to have traffic coming from behind them that's going to be the problem. There is my biggest problem with it. I don't think it's the stacking at the Taco Time or the stacking in front of Sonic, it's the exit at the Sonic is my biggest issue. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. May I have a motion to reopen the public hearing on CUP 08-029? Rohm: So moved. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Would the applicant like to come forward and comment on whether or not they would be willing to attempt a site redesign and a continuance to do so? And when would be the appropriate time period? How much time will you need? Strite: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Bill Ray Strite, once again. I'm not sure at this point in time what the motion was. I still have yet to figure out what was said. Perhaps you can enlighten me and, then, I will make comment. Newton-Huckabay: Two of the members of the Commission would like to see a site redesign to improve the traffic flow in the -- through the drive-thru. Two members of the Commission are generally okay with the site design as it is today. We cannot vote on this motion, because we have a tie, because our fifth member is not here. So, I guess one other option would be to continue this hearing and hear it -- would we likely have to .f,;; ::: _ .._ :3 Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 37 of 48 ;1 r =~~~ hear it again in its entirety, would we not, if we waited for Commissioner Moe, since he =~.; was not here at this hearing? ::-,~ Canning: Madam Chair, if Commissioner Moe reads the full transcripts, then, you could just continue the heaping. You would not have to rehear the item. But if he hasn't, then, you would have to rehear it in his presence. ;~:~~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Well, I guess the third option is to -- your third option is to :~a.~ continue the public hearing -- or agree to a continuance of the public hearing with -- and make no changes to your site design and wait until the Commission can have a vote ~~~~`"~' ' with an odd number of members. Strite: Madam Chair, I think there was some conflicting testimony by the Commission - and some inaccuracies, so -- and probably would be best if I addressed those at a ' if future hearing. So, perhaps it might be to everybody's advantage that we defer this until -.~~. a date certain when all five Commissioners are here. That might be the most 4 3_ '~~ ~` appropriate approach. .'F` ., Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Everyone is in agreement with that? Okay. I feel pretty strongly that there is not a middle ground here with the four of us. Rohm: I do, too. ~~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Is this -- this is my December 4th agenda? We have lots of ~~ room on December 4th, Mr. Strite, if you would like to return, then. 7 Strite: We'd love to. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I'd like a motion to continue the public hearing to our regularly scheduled meeting of December 4th, 2008. ~t~; Rohm: So moved. '_ Marshall: Second. . ;. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. =~; Strite: Thank you. W > ~:. Item 12: Public Hearing: CPA 08-011 Request to amend the Comprehensive ~< Plan by adding the Design Manual as an addendum for Design Review by Meridian Planning Department: :; ,~ .: & T,. ;~; ~`.,~ ~~~~I', ~~~: n.'i' 2~, - ~ .~t ' -~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 38 of 48 Item 13: Public Hearing: ZOA 08-002 Request to amend and add to the current provisions of the Unified Development Code (Title 11 of Meridian City ' ~ ~~ Code) relating to adoption of a new administrative design review process ~->`* and associated implementation procedures for Design Review by ~~ Meridian Planning Department: a ~~ a: Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Okay. I'd like to open the public hearings on CPA 08- 001 and ZOA 08-002, to discuss Meridian's new design review guidelines and process. Friedman: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. I'm just going to '~ ~-:- R'. give you some introductory comments, some of which you have heard before, and, then, I'm going to tum it over to Will to kind of walk you through the meat of both the :~:;~ Comprehensive Plan amendment and the UDC amendments. As he's walking you through, please, bear in mind that we do have one recommended change to the UDC amendments that we will bring up at the end of Will's presentation. It's just an administrative function. So, by way of background -- gosh, it was January 30th, 2007, when the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council met to talk about the t: ~. feasibility in the interest in extending design review on a city wide basis. As you know, ~ design review is not new to the city; we currently require it in Old Town along comdors ~~~} " and in some commercial districts for commercial buildings over a certain size. As the ,- ~,~ city has grown over time I think the Council recognized that they were too often ending up being put in a position of being the arbiters of taste, if you will, in fine design and didn't -- weren't real comfortable with that position. They also recognize that we didn't really have a design issue per se. We have had some very high quality developments come through the city, but there -- maybe there is limited instances where we want to ' ~ {~; bring some of the others up to the bar where those were at. So, they met with the Planning and Zoning Commission and the staff, we ran through a number of questions about the scope, the width, and breadth of how they wanted to see it and they were ~~ h ~~~~ - pretty clear that they wanted to extend design review citywide to apply to almost all developments, both public and private. The one exception would be for single family detached. They were also very clear that they did not want to create another level of ~~ ; bureaucracy nor another board and that they wanted that any future design review process be what would lead to our existing development review process. In addition, a_, they were pretty clear that the design review process was not to incorporate specific prescriptive standards, thou shalt and thou shalt not, but, rather, that it should embody A ~ guidelines, so that we could unlock the creativity of our design community. So, with that ~ direction, city hired Will Thornton. Will has two degrees in architecture. And to not only develop the guidelines, but develop the process. So, wanting to be, essentially, cast a _ broad net for ideas, we formed a steering committee that was made up of architect _ ~ design professionals and developers who do business with us and Will and the steering committee and myself at times, after the steering committee of 13 members met a °-=~' couple of times a month for over seven months in developing the guidelines that are before you tonight. Now, we have had a chance to brief the Commission and the ~; ~;' ~- Council on this process, so unless you really want to see the whole presentation again, ~ ~ ~ which Will is prepared to give you, we probably will skip that. But we are recommending to you the adoption of the design manual as an addendum to our Comprehensive Plan 't:: a u .f . r, L {, s ~, P.'. ~. :., ~: r 9 ~, ;. ia~' !,.. .. _ _ 7t``'' _;. " 1,r ,'-~" . '`'l`3 .h: -1a~ ';~__ -.. .t ~- ^~%WY ,' ,~ '' ~ ' = ~~. ~..A~. ~:~ «~ ~~~ ;ks- ; ~~~ ~, `, ~~ ~ ~~ `<- .~, _. ~+;" <:; ~ i ~ ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 39 of 48 and, then, we have also identified a number of changes to the unified development code that we want to take through concurrently so that when we implement this there is no lag time, we can pull it together and move it forward all as one package and put it in place once Council acts on it. I think the one thing that was made clear to us, at least by members of the Council is they recognized not only sort of the unique approach that Will has employed, but it's like anything new, we will probably have some fine tuning to do as we implement this thing. We have already at the staff level we are starting to ask ourselves some questions and so we will also keep track of those, so it's highly likely that six months from now, perhaps 12 months from now, we may be back to you with some tweaks and some fine tuning. So, that being said, I'm going to turn it over to Will at this point. He will walk you through primarily the design manual. You do have the recommended changes to the Unified Development Code before you and so, as I say, when Will concludes and maybe we get through with your discussion, I do have one amendment to the administration section of the code that we would like to propose tonight. Thornton: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. So, for tonight, as Pete has mentioned, I have prepared an abbreviated presentation from the joint meeting on September 30th and, basically, it talks about -- it will show how the manual is created and its contents, so -- so, briefly, I'm going to show you what the -- our original objectives were for the design manual. We needed some way to develop a -- organize ahierarchy for development within the city. So, we have chose as staff to base this on appropriate context, basically, meaning that a development fits within an area that's proposed. We wanted to encourage creativity and innovation throughout the city. The -- one of our objectives was to direct development to create the quality and building environment and the attractiveness that we wanted throughout the city and so Pete went through, basically, the process that we use to create the manual. There was some research involved in the beginning. Staff developed and organized the -- an organizing tool and the guidelines. We convened the steering committee that helped us review those guidelines and that committee was made up of architects, developers, builders, and other representatives of the community. So, before you tonight is a draft that was completed in October. It's been available on our website or a little over a month now. The contents -- we have an introduction to introduce the design manual. There is a set of guiding principles to set forth the basic concepts for design in the city. There is an applicability section that talks about when the guidelines are applicable to development. This applicability section mirrors what the UDC -- the proposed applicability section in the UDC amendment, so that the two reinforce each other. There is a section on how to use the design manual and, then, the contents -- the majority of the contents are divided into five sections, one for determining an appropriate development context and four for the actual design guidelines. And, then, at the very end we have an appendix with terms and definitions for unfamiliar words and constants. Section eight deals with development context and character. This section contains as development context -- or the development matrix. It helps determine appropriate context for a development proposal. And it also determines how the guidelines are applicable to the project. The applicability of the design manual and the matrix itself is through the administrative design review. Through the code changes that ..i:,, ~ 4 ~~ .... Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 40 of 48 we are proposing tonight, administrative design review would be required for certain developments and, then, in tum, ties it to the design manual and the design guidelines. r The manual also encourages other projects and future planning proposals to help anticipate and -- for growth and future development. The structure of the matrix is y '= based on three groupings. One grouping of land use that's based on the Comprehensive Plan. One group for zoning, which is based on the current zoning districts contained in the UDC. And, finally, a third group, which is represented by the gray scale and the colors, is a development category -- basically this refers to the patterns and practices of design that promote certain development categories, like ~,~~~~: transit oriented or urban or suburban development. It's set up on a five-by-five matrix. As I mentioned, here are the three groups and it's goal is to integrate our ~.. Comprehensive Plan, the Unified Development Code, and the idea of a development ' hierarchy. Here it is in close-up so you can see the components. There are 13 possibilities and they are grouped in five contents -- general contents. Here is the general process of how to use the matrix to determine an appropriate context and the applicable guidelines. Here it is blown up, so you can see it. The first step is to gather ~; information about a subject property, its current land use, any zoning it may have, or , ~~ ~t: any zoning that's been requested by the applicants. It's proposed uses, the intensity of those uses, and what's going on around the area. These are all important to determine „ ~ the content -- an appropriate content. Using the matrix you determine the result. That result refers you to a general context. And that general context identifies the guidelines that are applicable that are contained in the other sections of the manual. And, then, the guidelines, the appropriate context, and the regulations in the UDC direct development. This has all been summarized in a worksheet. This worksheet is found ~. on page 13 of the design manual. It's exactly what it is, it's a worksheet. You can circle x , a~fis. your groups and mark off your possible matrix combinations to determine results. And the following three sections contain the majority of the guidelines. Section B is for urban t "~°' development. Section C is for urban-suburban. This focuses on creating transitional areas throughout the city between differences in intensity of uses. Section D contains ~+ some guidelines for suburban development. And the guidelines themselves are broken " ` into site character and architectural character. Here is an example from Section C on site character. This one deals with orientation and layout. You can see that the _~ ~; guidelines are set up for -- with an objective, the guidelines, on the left-hand side of the page and images with captions to portray potential outlooks and outcomes of "~~ development on the right-hand side. Here is some other topics that site characteristics _ ~ ='~~' -- or site character guidelines cover. They talk about access and connectivity within the property and two other properties. Orientation and layout of buildings and site -- site plan. Parking and public an open spaces are other topics. This example deals with - architectural character. This is from Section B, urban design guidelines. This one deals with building form, similar to site characteristics, the objectives and guidelines are on ~~'~: the left-hand side and images on the right. Some topics contained in architectural ~~~~ character are building scale, building form, architectural elements, and material. Some f~; sections in the design manual have a third option with specific criteria. These are "~' ~ `'~ intended to address that -- that topic of certain things that either span multiple context or deal specifically with a use such as industrial in Section C. Here in Section D we have neighborhood centers. They offer additional guidelines, supplemental to the previous ;; ,~, C q t;, ...-. ' . -. ~/ ^. - ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning ` z November 20, 2008 Page 41 of 48 site and architectural guidelines for the section. The final section is Section E, which is - :~: residential guidelines. They are general guidelines for residential developments °~rY throughout the city, including multi-family detached -- or attached single family residential developments. They are intended to be used with the other appropriate section, either B for urban, C for urban-suburban, and D or suburban. And, then, finally, x,.:,.:. h°,,~ we have our terms and definitions. Before I move on to the code changes, I have a few ,. ,- items to mention with the October draft. Reviewing it for presentations and outreach ~~~~_, programs we have noticed several minor adjustments to the code -- or to the manual. ~~" Most notably are formatting, numbers not lining up with text and so forth. We intend to ~` ~~ correct these and -- before it gets passed onto City Council. One other change was an entire page was numbered wrong in Section B and we have proposed changes for that, so that the manual will move on in a reasonable format. Numbers corresponding to correct guidelines. Newton-Huckabay: I'm sorry, is this -- I'm hearing music. Nary: Madam Chairman, me, too. I don't know where it's coming from, but I have been ~~~,. hearing it as well. Marshall: A baseball field. r: Newton-Huckabay: I wasn't going to go there. ~~;. ~~"° Thomton: If there are no objections to seeing -- or not seeing an example of the matrix, we can move on with the code changes. r"h ~ `~ Newton-Huckabay: Is everyone okay with that? Rohm: Yeah. I'm -- ;: Newton-Huckabay: I thought you covered the matrix very thoroughly in our prior ~`~'~~ meeting. Thornton: Okay. Newton-Huckabay: Sony to interrupt you, but it was very distracting. Thomton: That's fine. I hear it, too. Newton-Huckabay: Do you? Okay. Thomton: We will move on with the proposed Unified Development Code amendments. Friedman: I guess I can start out on this. What we have done is we are trying to marry, }'`' if you will, the guidelines to the UDC, both in terms of applicability, so that we have common applicability language in both, even though the manual would be a guideline, ;. y. .. + h ry. ~. a. $ ~ ;s: ~ ~ J~9 ~ .a~%a~a4l~$ } `~ t ~~h ' ~'~ ~'.~ }~ ~ Vii` ~~ ~ sz~.~etiz .t~.~. ~~~RJ if~ 4 k' ~~ ~ fiS~~Ya,~~. ,ea~`f ~ - y ri~~ ~r;'r ~t~ ~~' <~ ~ ~ ~. ~ ;`±r3 t~ '4 h0 tiF~ `- ;fi ~ ;' ;~; r ~~~~~"; h ~" ~~ ~¢` ~~i ,~., ~ ~. t: ~ ~ ~'~ 3~r,~;3~- ~~, ff &': ~'.? f ,Y ~'~1 K"Y3 ° ~. .^ > } ~' ,,J, ~ k ~,~ ~i_. •~.. ~€ ,* ~a...,k.a. ~ '~h o M1 fr Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 42 of 48 we at least have our code define what it applies to within the UDC. We were also trying ~.~: -- before the UDC contains some design elements that apply to limited instances when `r'' ~` we had administrative design review. We found that there was going to be situations where there were two prescriptive and that they were supplemented by some of the " ~ generalized guidelines contained in the manual. On the other hand, there were a couple of areas where we really felt that it was critical that we had specific standards that carried over from the UDC, we wanted to make sure they were codified, so that there was a matter of interpretation question came up just before you get your authority ' ~ for that, it is in the UDC, but those are very limited in their instance, in their use. The ~ .:, other thing that we have done is that we have created reference to altemative ~'`~3'' compliance. One of the issues that we talked about quite a bit in the steering committee - ~ ' is what happens if we get a design and the applicant disagrees with the fast termination ~' `" ' -~ on it, well, we have an altemative compliance language very similar to that that's already contained in the UDC, which makes provisions submitting a different design or a different guideline, putting the burden of demonstration on the applicant saying this is how we believe it complies with the guidelines, so we are just kind of formalizing that. ~ ~ And, then, we have also created a design professionals committee. What we have done ~ ~"4~~~ is we know there may be instances where there might be differences in interpretation where there is flat out might be a disagreement between an applicant and staff. Again, ~~, L ~ "~; trying to build it into our existing review procedures without creating a whole new level - of appeal and so forth, what we have done is we are saying that if there is a difference that person can seek a director's determination and the director has the ability to ~' ~ convene what we are calling a design professional committee. We have a group of _ seven individuals who have volunteered. They are registered architects and landscape ~~ ,~" ` architects who have volunteered to serve as needed in those instances where the ~'fi ' director feels that someone would, then -- the would, essentially, provide her with a 'h` recommendation on how to dispose of the difference of opinion, if you will. And based P"~= i V ~F ~~ upon their recommendation she would, then, issue a decision and like all other directors determinations, the next remedy from that decision would a review by the City Council. So, again, trying to keep it at the staff level, but also recognizing there may be instances where staff needs the assistance of a design professional in coming to a determination on the stability of the guidelines. So, we have tried to clarify what the applicability is, ' ~ again, between the guidelines and the code and, then -- Will, help me out if there is ' ~~~ anything else I have missed. A lot of it is process. There is a few standards in there that we have incorporated, a few that we have changed. For example, I think the J'' design guidelines right now, for example, for roof design where three and 12 pitches absolutely gave no other option. We have changed that to say that you can present other options based on our design guidelines. So, that's kind of a synopsis of the UDC changes. One of the things that I -- that Will and I noticed late this afternoon is that we originally had put a 18 month timeline on administrative design, review approval. ~~ i` However, there may be some instances where, depending on the type of application "~ `'` ~ that the design might be married to, the actual approval of the underlying permit might be shorter than 18 months and so in Section 11.5.B-8C under process number five, we would like to change the administrative design review approval timeline, rather than expiring within 18 months, just come up with a design that says that the approval shall t, ~,~~.~;~ be exercised within the approval time period of the underlying permit or the design rY , iz~_ ~, , t~, y,- _, _ , _ ~jh~,:: Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 4 Page 43 of 48 review approval shall expire. For example, if you have a Conditional Use Permit, they `~'~~`~ have an 18 month timeline on them. So, if you haven't exercised your design review approval within the same 18 months, then, it expires. Conversely, a certificate of zoning compliance has a 12 month lifetime. So, if the application you have submitted for -- for example a commercial development on a commercial lot, you come in for a CZC, you got to exercise that design review approval within the 12 month lifetime of the -- 12 ~;` month lifetime of the CZC. So, that's the specific language that we are recommending for a change in what you have before you tonight. That's all I have on the UDC %~_:` changes. Be happy to answer any questions or be more than happy to direct questions ~: , ":` on the design manual to Will. _ Newton-Huckabay: Any questions? ~~.~ -,;; O'Brien: I have a question that -- I don't know how important it is, but Section 11-5A- 462, Idon't know if I'm just misreading this thing, but I thought there was a 300 foot radius from -- from property owners for notification of people within 300 feet and it says here it's 100 feet. So, am I misreading this? Is this something different or -- or am I -- something's changed. ~~ Friedman: This would be in the event of the -- this would be in the event of a design professional -- f_-~ O'Brien: It's regard to public notice. ~_ Canning: Can we bring up the right code? What was your -- what's your citation again? It's 4B? O'Brien: It's 11-5A-4 and I believe it's B -- B-1. So, it's prior to submittal of an application, administration with public notice, and it's -- I thought it was a 300 foot .. distance from -- to give public notice within a property line and it says here it's 100 feet, so I'm confused. :'s +`T Canning: Madam Chair, Commissioner O'Brien, the section you're in is the administrative process. Generally you don't see those items. Those are -- those are i' the ones we do. We have two administrative items that require notice and that's a home occupation and a day care. If you look up at the table -- actually, it's just an accessory ` use home occupation with customers, clients, and/or employees requires noticing. O'Brien: Oh. Canning: And so we were making changes to this one and we noticed that there was a pretty big error in this section, so we snuck this in with the design review stuff. Good job catching the fact that it wasn't really related to design review, but that's why it's in there is we had a flaw in that administrative process. We were putting the design review :3~ under the administrative process, so we had to clean things up a little bit. ~~ ~~ ~ 7 ~,~,~ ~ , },~° E ="~1~. ~, ~ ~i~ ,,r~ 4 . ~r~ %t~=" ~ ~~ti Y.^v.JR $t~c 4 '~''? 4 ~'>'7kr'~+... ~' i t.,, rt:;; r t z rY ~ e ,rFsn~} ,~ , ~., c` ~ r ~ . t~F ~ ~ y f,, {~,W~ 7TU rj' ^qs: ,. ~~ X f',~ t ' ~ y m~f. d, r:'~. aS3_2~?' ~~ r„`k_y cam' ?t},7 .. -~ ~x((~1^s r 4;. 4 nY F ~'~ ~ ~ ~, t F ~.> ; ~t, 11`[`Yt.. r~Y cr Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 _ Page 44 of 48 O'Brien: Thank you for clarifying that. Newton-Huckabay: Any questions? We have one person. signed up to testify, that's Casey Huse. Boy, when I spelled that when you testified earlier, did I get it wrong. Did `j' ` you have something to -- Huse: Yeah. Once again, Casey Huse, 1703 Norcrest Court, Boise, Idaho. I am one of the volunteers for the professional review panel. I am a licensed architect with LCA Architects, in Boise and I signed in just because I'm here, but since I'm here I will give a p~. little bit of comments. I want to applaud the staff over at Planning and Zoning for the job they have done in preparing this document. They are very deliberate, very organized, s~- very thorough in what they came up with. I think it's also a flexible document and also ~~_ takes into account the process that design professionals are going to have to go through. I appreciate them not creating more bureaucracy and, you know, allowing -`~ there to be freedom in design while encouraging some good standards to help guide your municipality along. It's also good that they recognize it as they go along, so just like I say, very well conceived. I think there is a very good chance it will be a model for ~~` ~ your neighboring municipalities to look at in the future. So, I'm happy to support it and ~.> hopefully they won't require our services. But we are ready if they do. Newton-Huckabay: Well, from one panel of volunteers to another -- is there anyone else that would like to testify? ~:' ~ Edwards: I'm Scott Edwards. I live at 3486 West`Angelica Drive, Meridian. I am the ~: ~ secretary-treasurer of the local section for the American Institute of Architects. I also served on the steering .committee with the staff and some of the local developers in the area. It was my pleasure to serve on that committee. It was nice to see them taking the ~`-~~=~ approach that they have since in the past Meridian has only enforced design review on ~' ` buildings over a certain square footage and I would say a good portion of the buildings in our city have fallen under those square footages and, therefore, the design of those buildings have not been enforced. It is also I think one of the things I have admired !;°~ most over this process is that it is not just a one sided architectural design review ~: anymore, that we are taking into effect the entire context of the building -- the entire design of the building. The staff presented to the American Institute of Architects the -- their --one of the draft versions of the matrix and the guidelines and that was pretty well received by the membership of our organization. There was a little confusion with the matrix, I think the matrix is kind of like buying a new car, you jump in and you have got '_~,~ to just find where all the controls are and once you -- once you figure it out it's going to be a pretty easy process. The guidelines themselves are just that. We view them in the `= architectural community as something that is very flexible, being able to approach ~ft~ design from very many different points of view outside the box, inside the box, and ,: being able to develop something that works for the developer, as well as the community t='~' and stay within the budget. There was some concerns during the steering committee ~' that, you know, if you had awarehouse -- you know, if this is going to be too restrictive for somebody that just wants to come in and put in a storage unit and we -- we feel that `~~~ through the process that the committee went through it was pretty flexible enough just :,~~ ~~ ~~~"" ~; a ~y. - 4 ~~J ~i4~~ Y /~= ~. ~1 ` _ F`` ~t n ''~: i': s „~,~.:. .r ~. µ"F , t .z~ri ~~ Y:. , if:~ ~.} S ~'~~~ ~ `&~. # ~ ' .. R~ IL ~~ ~~it~{reN .}` ~~~ fk', S ~~ k ~Y -ti.r- ` ~.~., ~ r.; r~k~~~Y fi ~ i x -~;, Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 45 of 48 so that whoever is designing that storage unit or an office building, just puts their full "` ~ thought and effort into the design and not just trying to come in as low and in the budget as possible, so that our community as it grows is an appealing community to be in and that it doesn't end up needing to be tom down in ten, 15, 20 years, because it wasn't something anybody wanted to keep up. It's my hope that they Commission will approve r the design review guidelines and recommend approval to the Council. ;'.~ Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Anyone like to comment? Staff, do you have any last comment? I guess it's our tum. Friedman: Madam Chair, Commission Members, we do have more of our volunteer ``~> professionals here, Robin Gates, who is also in the audience, so we may or may not have a chance to use the services of this gentleman over here that Dave and I can recognize, so it's an honor to have him here. Actually, we have more volunteers than we have steering committee members there at this point. Milt Erhart, who was also a real stalwart on the steering committee was here earlier, but had to leave, so these =;: three folks are three of the seven folks who have volunteered to assist us in -- as needed where we may have some need for interpretation or guidance and disposing of some of our applications. Newton-Huckabay: Excellent. Friedman: Other than that, we have no other comments. Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall, you look ready to go -- ready to comment. ~~w~ Marshall: Madam Chair, I'm ready to close the public hearing on CPA 08-011 and ZOA 08-0021 =' '~ O'Brien: Second. ~: Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Marshall: Madam Chair, now I'm ready to make some comments. ~; Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Marshall: I'm pretty dam excited about this. I'm having a little trouble reading some of it ~'~ and figuring it out, you know, it's going to take a little while, but it seems pretty exciting ..;~ to me. I like the approach. I'm really excited about it and I think there is going to be ~r2 some -- a few little growing pains we are going to have to clean up along the way, but think it's good. I think it's a very good move. And I am pleased to see many volunteers, {~ - architect types here behind this showing up saying, hey, they are willing to stay this late to come say what happens, so -- t ~~ -u FM.'ffiffav~FSD7t x~"" ~.~ ro, ~'¢ . Lr~, ~_ ~~~~ Y{ ~?b,~~' ~ t 1. Z w~N - - ~7x•f-~ #t: F 7yd"u"~h~~C ~`' ., k x c n. Y d sf ~ ~~~• L x'v~'~' y~'~'-~ a r,;. ~t ~t ~° s ~ ~ ~~y f~ ~. ~ ~ Y - s 3.,.,~'' ~ a,t~. ~~ .~- ~ ~, '.~~, , ~:, z ~~ F5~~~~ ~. r ~~~~ tr Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 Page 46 of 48 "~^~ Newton-Huckabay: Maybe their meeting should start at 7:00. Commissioner O'Brien, do you have any comments? O'Brien: I think this is great. I'd like to make it where you can follow them and go through the process. I really think this is great, it's going to be a great model and I think put Meridian on the map regarding this kind of a thing. I think it's agreat -- great tool, so -- ;~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm? ~ Rohm: Good job. °'~;~ Newton-Huckabay: My only comment would be I appreciate the efforts that city and '' staff went to and the separate training that we had to go through this in more detail and ~~~ understand it in more detail. I was pretty new on -- using of a matrix wasn't so much a ~`~ ~~ new conce t to me, but usin It in a conce t for a tannin I thou ht was -- was a little r p 9~ P p 9 9 k$' bit -- was a little bit different. I look forward to seeing -- seeing the results of it. I don't think we will see the pain of it as much as the city staff will. At the Commission level -- I ~: J think ones it gets to us we will have the benefit of all the -- all the blood, sweat, and tears will have -- will have already past, so -- but I look forward to seeing the results and .;:~: ~7 _ I am please in raising the bar and -- there is a lot of cases where I think the bar has ~' ;. already been raised in the city and Ithink -- I think that this is going to just push that ~`-'~ even more and great job and good luck. ::.~ ~. Marshall: Madam Chair? 2 ;'; ~_~~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Marshall. >`~t Marshall: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to ;: recommend approval to the City Council of file numbers CPA 08-011 and ZOA 08-002, as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of November 20th, 2008, with no modifications. Friedman: Madam Chair, Commissioner, there was the one recommendation to the one section that we would respectfully request you pass on. '` -'~ Marshall: I'm sorry, I didn't get that one written down. That was -- Friedman: I'll get it for you. You want the full text? Marshall: Yes. I'll get that -- ~`' ~=~ Friedman: Okay. That would be in Section 11-5B-8C, number five. ,.,.. ~; ~~ ~, ~<~ _, ~'~ ~ v.~;:- qtr ~ x, ,.. _F - ;:_.: t Meridian Planning & Zoning November 20, 2008 ~ .,yN Page 47 of 48 ~' Marshall: 5C dash -- number five? I'm just looking for the number. I'll just do the -~ ; number; is that okay? Well, what are we going to do with this? : , Friedman: What we were doing is we were changing the text, so that the design review approvals shall be exercised within the time -- within the approval period of the underlying permit or the approval shall expire. For example, if the underlying approval is a Conditional Use Permit, the design review approval will expire in 18 months. _: ~~- Marshall: Can we add that to my motion? 11-5B-5C dash -- .~~~: ~..~ Newton-Huckabay: As stated by staff. Marshall: As stated by staff. Can I do that? Rohm: Second. ,~;~. .:,> ~~'` Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. ~~~ ~;~:~ MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Need one more motion. ,~r Rohm: Move we adjourn. Marshall: Second. ~ ~` O'Brien: Second. .::~ ~<~ Newton-Huckabay: All in favor'? Opposed? Motion carves. ~~~~ ~ MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. y' r, ~ Newton-Huckabay: We are adjourned. Y~~ ~ ~ >, MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:41 P.M. .'~ tj. (AUDIO ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.) ~~, :; ~,. ~ ; .~° APPROVED• ,. ., .$ WENDY TON-HU BA COMMISSI NER DAT APPROVED ~,k. y. '_ _,..,t:: ~~ r.. ti1? ~,~... .. . . _ _ y ~~y ". f. .~ _,.; ;~~; ;~~ ;;~ :; :; ~, _; ;::,: qtr, ~`_ ~ r'~''v _ ~y; °. ~ti ;rr.:.:.. y'i ~s~. i,,'3r,. ~: ^~. '~`.1s'~,~'.' -.Mr,.. 1 ~~ ~: ~i ~.i -^a c „~ t:,