1997 12-09
MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
AGENDA
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1997 - 7:00 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 12, 1997:
(APPROVED)
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 25, 1997:
(APPROVED)
PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 12, 1997: REQUEST
FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RETAIL SHOPPING CENTER BY
TOM BEVAN - 2030 W. FAIRVIEW AVENUE: (CONTINUED PUBLIC
HEARING TO JANUARY 13, 1997)
2. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 12, 1997: REQUEST
FOR AN ACCESSORY USE PERMIT FOR A FAMILY HOME DAY CARE BY
LETICIA PERALTA -LOT 12, BLOCK 3 BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION:
(APPLICATION WITHDRAWN BY APPLICANT)
3. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
PLUMBER'S UNION FACILITY BY PLUMBER'S ~ PIPEFITTERS LOCAL 296 -
LOT 5, BLOCK 2 RAILSIDE PARK SUBDIVISION: (IMPROPERLY NOTICED -
TABLED TO JANUARY 13, 1997)
4. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
INCLUSION OF A DRIVE THRU WINDOW ON THE WEST END OF A NEW
ADDITION TO EXISTING CHERRY WOOD RETAIL CENTER BY W. ROY
BROWN 8 RICHARD BROWN - SW CORNER OF CHERRY LANE AND
CINDER ROAD: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
TV BROADCASTING STATION HOPE TV 22 WITH MICROWAVE DISH
STRUCTURES TO BE PLACED ON ROOF, SATELLITE DISHES ON ROOF
AND NEAR BUILDING BY WILLIAM HULL - 230 S. MERIDIAN ROAD: (CITY
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF
LAW)
6. STEINER CORPORATION: PRESENTATION OF CONCEPTUAL PLAN FOR
THE VILLAS AT THE LAKES:
MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
AGENDA
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1997 - 7:00 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 12, 1997:.~T~r~. we~-
i
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 25, 1997: <~n rc, ~ ~
PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 12, 1997: REQUEST
FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RETAIL SHOPPING CENTER BY
TOM BEVAN - 2030 W. FAIRVIEW AVENUE: ~-: z~, f~~~~•r-~ ; ~~ ~i ~~; /~r~ .13 ~ ~
2. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 12, 1997: REQUEST
FOR AN ACCESSORY USE PERMIT FOR A FAMILY HOME DAY CARE BY
LETICIA PERALTA -LOT 12, BLOCK 3 BE/DFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION:
d<:e~i~ Fet{f/ c~ ~~i~"~ftCL2ko.li, ~rn~ c. f'?af'.c'w-~ f-
3. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIC~NtAL USE PERMIT FOR A
PLUMBER'S UNION FACILITY BY PLUMBER'S & PIPEFITTERS LOCAL 296 -
LOT 5, BLOCK 2 RAILSIDE PARK SUBDIVISION: ~>k f~ ~ r~r~ - ~ %~ ~ ~ ~ ~--
4. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ~A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
INCLUSION OF A DRIVE THRU WINDOW ON THE WEST END OF A NEW
ADDITION TO EXISTING CHERRY WOOD RETAIL CENTER BY W. ROY
BROWN ~ RICHARD BROWN - SW CORNER OF CHERRY LANE AND
CINDER ROAD: ~ ~~ ~ 2 Nzz-,,.~J f-~~~ t{~~~. ~.,, ~r~ ~s ~ %
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
TV BROADCASTING STATION HOPE TV 22 WITH MICROWAVE DISH
STRUCTURES TO BE PLACED ON ROOF, SATELLITE DISHES ON ROOF
AND NEAR BUILDING BY WILLIAM H~J,LL - 230 S. MERIDIAN ROAD:
6. STEIN~R CORPORATION: PRESENTATION OF CONCEPTUAL PLAN FOR
THE VILLAS AT THE LAKES:
MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION DECEMBER 9. 1997
The regular meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission was called to
order by Chairman Jim Johnson at 7:00 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Keith Borup, Byron Smith, Mark Nelson:
MEMBERS ABSENT: Malcolm MacCoy:
OTHERS PRESENT: John Prior, Will Berg, Gary Smith, Dean Elhert, Joe & Leta
Wood, Richard Brown, Terry Botler, John Wasson, Jim Rugeiero, Chuck Koedner, Joe
Carleton, Doug Campbell, Steve Cullan, Doty Fufiman, Bill Hull, Steve Bradbury:
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 12, 1997:
Johnson: Are there any corrections or deletions to these minutes? Entertain a motion
for approval.
Smith: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we approve the minutes from
the November 12"' meeting.
Borup: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes as written, all those
in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 25, 1997:
Johnson: Any corrections or deletions to those minutes of the 25"'? We need a motion
to approve these minutes.
Nelson: Mr. Chairman I move we approve these minutes.
Smith: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes for the meeting held
November 25, 1997, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #1: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 12, 1997: REQUEST
FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RETAIL SHOPPING CENTER BY TOM
BEVAN - 2030 W. FAIRVIEW AVENUE:
Meridian City Planning &Zoning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 2
Johnson: I will open this public hearing, it is a continuation. Is The applicant or the
applicants representative here and do they wish to address the Commission at this
time? Well I spoke with Shari Stiles our Planning and Zoning Administrator there was
some material that was submitted late and this is probably why they are not here. We
didn't have an opportunity to review it and it didn't meet our deadline. When it did come
it was somewhat inadequate and there were no utilities shown in the landscaping. This
would probably be an item that we would want to consider tabling. Anyone else from the
public that would like to address the Commission on this application?
(Inaudible)
Johnson: This would be an excellent time to do that we just wouldn't be able to answer
any questions that we might not have knowledge of. We are doing item #1. I will close
the public hearing at this time. I guess ws want to continue the public hearing rather
than Gose it.
Smith: Mr. Chairman I would like to make a motion to continue the public hearing on this
item to the next Planning and Zoning meeting to be held January 13, 1998.
Borup: Second
Johnson: A motion and a second to continue this hearing until our next regularly
scheduled meeting January 13, 1998, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #2: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM NOVEMBER 12, 1997: REQUEST
FOR AN ACCESSORY USE PERMIT FOR A FAMILY HOME DAY CARE BY LETICIA
PERALTA -LOT 12, BLOCK 3 BEDFORD PLACE SUBDIVISION:
Johnson: We have a letter from the applicant withdrawing the application. But we need
to formally close that, I believe you all have that letter addressed to Dean Elhert.
Smith: Mr. Chairman I would like to make a motion that we accept this letter of
withdrawal of this application.
Nelson: Second
Johnson: Motion and a second for item #2 to accept the letter by the applicant for
withdrawal, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Meridian City Planning &Zoning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 3
ITEM #3: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
PLUMBER'S UNION FACILITY BY PLUMBER'S & PIPEFITTERS LOCAL 296 -LOT 5,
BLOCK 2 RAILSIDE PARK SUBDIVISION:
Johnson: Is anyone here for this application? I understand there is a request to have
this re-noticed for 1-13-98, do you know anything about that?
Elhert: They didn't have the property noticed in time the one week before.
Johnson: It was improperly noticed wasn't it, so that was the reason for that. We need a
motion to table this.
Nelson: Mr. Chairman, I move that we table this item until the January 13 meeting.
Smith: Second
Johnson: Motion and a second to table item 3 until 1-13-98 all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #4: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
INCLUSION OF A DRIVE THRU WINDOW ON THE WEST END OF A NEW
ADDITION TO EXISTING CHERRY WOOD RETAIL CENTER BY W. ROY BROWN
AND RICHARD BROWN - SW CORNER OF CHERRY LANE AND CINDER ROAD:
Johnson: I will now open this public hearing and invite the applicant or the applicant's
representative to address the Commission.
Richard Brown, #24 S 600 E, Salt Lake City, UT, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Brown: We have made application to Meridian City Planning &Zoning Commission
under a conditional use permit request for a pass through window to be included in a
building that will be new construction in addition to an existing building at approximately
1800 W. Cherry Lane. It is west of Linder Road there. Making an addition to that
building of approximately 6400 square feet and requesting to be allowed to include in
that new addition a pass through window towards the rear part of the building. I think
our application pretty well states what we are trying to accomplish there and have
received back from Meridian City the comments of the Planning Director, police fire
departments, Ada County Highway, Central District Health and Nampa Meridian
Irrigation. If you would like to discuss specific items in their response we can do that.
Johnson: We might begin by addressing those items you may or may not agree with
from the letter dated December 5 from Bruce Freckleton our Assistant to the City
Meridian City Planning &Zoning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 4
Engineer and Shari Stiles the Planning and Zoning Administrator. Do you have any
problems or questions regarding any points made in that letter.
Brown: We can go down those there are 15 points in that letter. The first one details the
Water service to this development is contingent upon positive results from a hydraulic
analysis from your computer model. I think that has already been done when the
original construction of this building was completed a year ago. I am not aware of
anything that would require additional water service. It is a standard single story retail
strip center. If there is anyone here that can speak to Shari's concems or Bruce's
concerns (inaudible) maybe we can address them more completely. But when we built
the first phase of that building we constructed water service, water meters and so on to
take care of the second phase of that building which we knew we would be building at
approximately this time of year.
Johnson: Since you received this letter not too long ago I gather you have not talked to
either Shari or Bruce?
Brown: I have not, this just came to my office actually this morning as I was passing
through heading for an airplane. So I have talked through it with Terry Butler our
Architect on this project and Teny didn't see any additional problems with the water
service there and I don't think there is any. This is on a piece of property that has been
zoned commercial for quite a while.
Johnson: Rather than take each item which I don't think is necessary are there in your
review are there any that you question or want more explanation about?
Brown: Well Number 5 a drainage plan will be designed by a State of Idaho licensed
architect Teny will handle that and we have had preliminary discussions a year ago with
Shari about where those needed to be. I think we are pretty well on line with the
requirement there. Parking stalls to be a minimum of 9 by 19 25 driveways per city
ordinance. Parking layout does not show that we meet these requirements. The
driveway is a tittle wider than what Ada County Highway required and so what we would
need to do is work with Planning and Zoning in regard to the number of parking stalls
we have since compact stalls may be approved with the approval of Planning and
Zoning Commission what we would like to do is request 8 compact stalls to be along the
west side of that property instead of full size stalls which is where the drive through lane
would be and that would give us adequate back out space with the eight compact
parking stalls. As the property is currently laid out it requires 32 parking stalls for that
new addition to the building, we have 50 parking stalls for that part of the building so we
way over designed the number of parking spots we need. So to request 8 compact
parking stalls would be 16% of the parking there is all. I would like to make that request
to the Planning and Zoning Commission, we can do that in writingrf you wish along with
some drawings, however you would like to approach that.
Meridian City Planning i~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 5
Johnson: That would probably be the way to go. Planning and Zoning Commission and
the administrator, we are basicalty getting away from all compact parking stalls because
they just don't do the job.
Brown: We don't need them, without them we have 42 parking stalls we are required to
have 32 so we can eliminate them altogether if you want and still have plenty of parking.
That was item #6 it was a question in our mind. Item #10 deals with communication
system. Any proposed system shall be shown on the site plan, telephone (inaudible)
loud speakers (inaudible). We are not sure exactly what Shari had in mind. 1 think that
maybe came from her.
Johnson: That is your drive through speakers.
Brown: Exactly, talking with Muzac who installs those systems for Hogi Yogi they
indicated the new systems only use 3 points decibels above the ambient sound levels
around which is fairly low volumes. They tell us they can't be heard at a distance of 25
feet from the source. We are 50 some feet from the fence. So I think that requirement is
pretty well satisfied for them. We Gan get some specifics and submit those to Shari too.
Number 11, configuration of drive through window will encourage increased traffic to
access the area behind the building. Additional buffering may be required as a condition
of your application. Again without any discussion I am not sure what she has in mind
there, what is required. This building is 60 some odd feet from the fence at that point it
has a huge utility easement going across the beck, 40 feet. In addition it has a whole
line of parking behind it which is another 19 feet. So we are a good distance from that
fence, with that large utility easement there is a lot of drive through space on the back
side of the building to allow cars to exit the drive through space. I think we are probably
in fairly good compliance with that. That is the only ones we had serious question with.
Johnson: Any questions from the Commissioners for the applicant here?
Borup: I had two, it looks like (inaudible) one was and Shari made reference to it also,
was the ACRD comment on the stacking.
Brown: 1 think they are talking about 200 feet of stacking for the drive through.
Borup: Well it depends on the use.
Brown: Yes, let me ask Teny to talk about that for a second he want to Ada County
Highway District.
Terry Butler, 2009 N. 10"', Boise, was swum by the City Attorney.
Butler: I attended a meeting at the Ada County Highway District on this 200 #oot
stacking distance. 1 inquired at the meeting where that 200 came up with. Everybody
looked at each other and no one really knew. Karen Gallagher of Ada County Highway
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 6
District planning and zoning said they had no idea where the 200 feet came from they
were to have changed it and sent a change to the commissioners that it would be
changed to 100. She said this was based on a Burger King or a Wendy's or a high
impact type fast food restaurant. We are looking at a client or a tenant that is Hogi Yogi
which is an ice cream type vendor and wouldn't have nearly the traffic or stacking as
this shows. We also looked at this that it was a recommended situation from Ada
County Highway District and not a regulatory restraint on that. I did talk to Karen and
after telling her who we were trying to obtain for a client for this she said she would work
with us on trying to reduce even the stacking that was indicated with the 100 feet. With
the 200 foot we would have to be clear out in Cheny Lane to have a reader board the
way it is worded. In fact the way it is worded it is 200 feet before the reader board and
200 feet after the reader board and that is 400 feet. That is a City block and bath
streets.
Borup: Is the reader board indicated on the plans?
Butler: No the reader board is not indicated on the plans.
Borup: Did you have a proposed location for that?
Butler: We talked to Hogi Yogi today about a loption
Borup: You are talking just a normal fast food reader board type thing with a menu?
Butler. Yes just a menu.
Borup: So they were talking the 100 feet from the entrance up to what point, to the
reader board?
Butler: ft is worded really, I don't know if it is a 100 total or if they are trying to say it is
100 including, 50 to the reader board and 50 to the window or a 100 total. The way it is
written (inaudible) We have calculated that we can have 5 cars with the length that we
have from the window to the edge of the parking. And probably a reader board would
be right at the first comer of the building.
Borup: Have you read the Fire Departments comments, well Shari made reference to
the same thing in item #12.
Brawn: Let me address that, the Fire department request is that occupancy not be
allowed until occupancy permit is issued and so on. We have no concern, we had a guy
running the first phase of that construction that was not terribly familiar with Meridian
City code and actually had a tenant in doing some tenant improvements and they were
ready to move in before an occupancy permit was issued. That is where the problem
came from it will not happen again. We understand exactly what the problem is there
and have not problem complying with that.
Meridian City Planning toning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 7
Borup: I know this may be one but there have been several others. I think the City is
trying to be more careful on that in the future.
Brown: We understand the problem that was created there and know what the marching
orders are and we don't have any problem complying there.
Borup: I have no other questions at this time.
Johnson: Would you like to elaborate on the type of lighting you plan to have there?
Brown: The lighting plan it is all existing.
Johnson: There are no additions over what is already there.
Brown: Lighting and landscaping is all complete for that whole site.
Johnson: Any other questions from the Commissioners?
Smith: I would like to get back to this stacking issue here for a minute. Could you tell me
again how many cars you figured you can stack from the drive through window back?
Brown: Five
Smith: And what were you basing that calculation on?
Brown: Twenty feet per (inaudible)
Butler: 18 is your recommended stall length so I think we were using 18 feet.
Smith: Okay, well four cars will take 72 feet your building is 64 feet and if you allow
another 5 feet for your sidewalk and 19 feet for your parking stall my calculations don't
add up to 5 cars stacked in there. I think you are going to be quite a bit less there. I
have observed the yogurt shop over in the Fred Meyer shopping center on numerous
occasions and I have rarely ever seen two cars there. So I am not so concerned about
the fact of whether or not this type of use would have adequate stacking space, but you
are not going to get five cars stacked in there. Because your window, there is no
dimension on the drawing but your window is a fair distance back from the back side of
the building. I think your cars are going to stack up are going to be quite a bit .less than
that.
Butler: What we were looking at is we were over talking to Hogi Yogi today, the
possible tenant and we could move the window as far back to that corner as we can get
it. Then also that front driveway if you look is very, there is quite a bit of space, there is
more than your 25 foot addition there. We could pull that parking section out a little
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 8
further to accommodate the five cars. But like you say 1 don't think it is really going to be
a high volume stacking type of unit in there. Also the Ada County Highway District was
saying that it really kind of depended on the tenant.
Smith: I would like to get a clarification from the Highway District as far as whether this
in indeed a recommendation on the stacking space or it is a requirement that they feel is
necessary. I don't think that from what you are describing as the intended use that it
could possibly require 200 feet because you don't have it. And the only other thing that
I could see you being able to do would be to locate the window on the back of the
building and reconfigure your parking and have some kind of stacking that wrapped
around the building. I guess this question the amount of distance behind the building
that you have to circulate around to exit out of the building it is kind of a functional
requirement. It is a design decision that you guys and your tenants agree upon. 1 don't
know that there is really anything that we can comment on that. Does the utility
easement along the back side of the property preclude you from planting trees or any
other kind of landscaping back there.
Butler: All the landscaping has already been installed in the first phase.
Smith: So you are not proposing to add anymore?
Butler: No
Smith: Where exactly would the board be, the menu board outside?
Butler: I would say it would probably be up on south comer, the SE corner or NE corner
on the building.
Smith: As opposed to some kind of sign mounted out freestanding of the building.
Brown: Our anticipation was not to make it free standing, Hogi Yogi just wanted it on the
corner of the building with the speaker on the corner.
Smith: Because if it is off the building then you are not going to get any stacking behind
anybody that is at the board. It needs to be up (inaudible) I don't have any further
questions.
Nelson: Can you just elaborate on, I don't see any problem on the traffic coming in, but
today when I was over there, there was a lot of traffic between the Dominoes delivery
cars all kind of stacking and the people between the car wash and the Dominoes. There
just seemed to be an awful lot of foot traffic flying back and forth currently. Unless they
pooled at least where all the cars for Dominoes are at now.
Meridian City Planning i~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 9
Brown: They are kind, if I recall where they park their delivery cars on the east side of
the building, that is where you are talking about between the car wash and the
dominoes building in there.
Nelson: I just kind of had to wait there awhile before I could get my car back between
the two.
Brown: Yes, they are supposed to be parking those behind the building which is a
Dominoes management problem quite frankly. There is all kinds of adequate parking
behind that building. It doesn't get used a great deal because at this time the west part
of the building is not completed so you can't cirGe the building which would be a
convenient way to get in and around back there. There is quite a bit of drive space
between the parking lots or the parking spaces immediately adjacent to the rear of the
building and then the planting strips and the curb on the back side of the building. In the
flow from the drive through window would be around the back side of the building either
straight to the east out on Linder or up between Dominoes and the car wash. It appears
as though there is plenty of area to have adequate ingress and egress. That is the rear
side of the building is what I am talking about with this utility easement that is so broad
down the back side of that building. We have parallel parking along that curb back there
but there is no vertical parking or angled parking on it at all. So we get pretty broad
drives. I am not exactly sure what that footage is but I am guessing it is 35 or 40 feet.
Johnson: Any other questions?
Smith: 4 just have one comment I would prefer to see the parking redesigned to omit any
compact parking. Since you are way over on your required amount of spaces anyway
.that would be my preference to omit those compact spaces.
Brown: On that west portion.
Smith: Wherever the compact spaces are proposed. Did your first phase meet ail of the
parking requirements?
Brown: We are actually overbuilt on it a little too. We have, the way it is laid out right
now we have 116 parking spaces and the requirement is 71. So we are considerably
over for the whole building. We did that in part because of the large easements around
it. We can't do anything around it, you can't do anything on them but you can put down
black top and use them for parking so we did that. We put a lot of parking behind the
building that can be used for employees for the companies that are housed there. So
we can do that reconfigure that into 60 degree angle parking or whatever Shari was
actually one of the ones that went through the parking schematic when we originally
designed the building. She liked the idea of excess parking there. There is no problem,
that west side has not been laid out or anything with blacktop so we can reconfigure
frankly any way that she likes along the west side and still have plenty of parking.
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 10
Smith: (Inaudible)
Borup: One other question Mr. Chairman, the angle parking makes a lot of sense to me,
it would be a shame to let something go to waste. But the question was the Hogi Yogi
on Milwaukee does that have a drive thru window?
Brown: tt does not, he would love to but he doesn't have one. That is the same
franchise that will be operating this location.
Johnson: Thank you very much, is there anyone from the public that would like to
address the Commission?
John Wasson, 1486 N. Silverado Place, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Wasson: First of all Mr. Chairman, I would like to give you some petitions and some
photographs. What I have given the chairman is a petition from in excess of 90 of the
residents of Vineyards requesting that this conditional use permit not be approved by
the Planning and Zoning Commission. First of all we had no idea what was going in
there, we have a real hard time granting the keys to the City so say without knowing
what is going in there. We want to know what is going in there first before it goes in.
Second of all a drive through is going to create a great deal of traffic in that area. It said
it is going to be a Hogi Yogi's possibly, it could also possibly be a Wendy's, a Burger
King. We have no idea exactly what it is. Mr. Brown and Mr. Brown have not come here
with specific plans, drawings, diagrams and contracts delineating exactly what is going
to go into that location. Furthermore businesses do fail and they can be lost and
something else go in there at any point in time. We have a number of problems that
have cropped up in the last year and a half in that area. You can read that we have kids
and criminals jumping the fences and going through our backyards. That is a tough
thing to fix unless we actually plant land mines in our back yards and set them pressure
sensitive. We are probably not going to do that but we have a problem with that. The
garbage pick up in that area is 4 times a v~ek, the garbage man backs in, he backs in
anywhere between 0500 hours and 730 hours. That violates the City's noise ordinance
plus is wakes our children up in the morning. The Dominoes pizza folks have parties
back there. We have all had pizzas in our back yard, courtesy of Dominoes that we find
the following morning. They throw bottles at the dipsy dumpster back there trying to hit
it. The Maverick and the Dominoes delivers somewhere in the vicinity of two and four in
the morning twice a week creating noise back there. This project led to that. Mr. Brown
said that parking behind the building is not a problem, that is absolutely correct, 1 have
never seen more than two cars back there. However if he puts a window so that traffic
goes behind there it is going to greatly increase the noise level for the folks that have
houses along that fence line. None of those businesses follow the City law or County
law with regards to maintaining their trash bins. Trash bins are required to be closed.
All of my neighbors and myself have found Styrofoam peanuts and other garbage from
the video land, Dominoes pizza, and Maverick store in our backyard. to addition it forms
up along the fence on the north side and creates an unsightly eye sore. He said there is
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 11
not going to be any additional lighting, I would hope not because my neighbors and
myself have light shining in our bedroom windows until 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning.
Those bright lights are set so that they go over the fence into our backyard. We are
concerned that this is going to be exacerbated and as you see Mr. Johnson from those
photos one series shows damage to some of the fencing that has occurred. The other
once sets a precedent in the Albertson's at Ten Mile that was set up. We realize we
may lose this but wee would respectfully request that these folks follow the precedent
that Albertson's set and build a cinderblock wall ten foot high to cut out the noise and
prevent further damage. In addition they plant additional trees to soak up the noise and
any exhaust fumes etc. from the cars as they go to the south side of the building. That
completes my comments subject to your questions sir.
Johnson: Where is this fence that is broken located, it is kind of hard to tell from the
picture?
Wasson: Sir that is 1473 N. Silverado Place, it is about 30 meters west of the end of
that building. All of us those have been replacing fence boards and posts that have
been kicked in, cracked as kids go over the fencing. Atso I would also like to say if this
is a Hogi Yogi or another fast food thing he is saying traffic doesn't stack up, however
what is going to happen during school lunch hours and after school when all the high
school kids may hit that area. Don't know because vve don't know what exactly is going
in there sir.
Johnson: Any questions?
Borup: A lot of your comments are referring to things that are already there which I don't
know we have much control over.
Wasson: No but it sets the stage sir, what we are concemed about, we realize that a
building will go in there at some point. But wee don't want a drive around building where
we vent traffic through there.
Borup: That is what I was trying to get down to, what your speck, is that your specific
objection to this is the drive through window?
Wasson: That is the biggest thing.
Borup: You are talking that and the traffic. Do you know who put the fence up that is
there now? Was that installed by the subdivision?
Wasson: That was installed by the subdivision.
Johnson: I have a question regarding your letter and the signatures. Just a procedural
question, these signatures are all blank pieces of paper and how were those obtained,
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 12
what did people think they were signing. Did they each and everyone of them read this
letter or is this done after the fact.
Wasson: I can address that especially since f helped collect some of these. Over the
past two or three evenings neighbors and I have gone out with a copy of the petition
and the papennrork showed the petition to the signatures they read it and signed it. They
have all had a change and in fact have looked at the petition sir.
Johnson: I needed that for the record because usually petitions that are submitted say
we oppose such and such and then they are signed underneath instead of being blank
pieces of paper, So I needed to get that clarification on the record. Any other questions.
Smith: Have any of these problems that you have outlined have you filed. any kind of
complaint or talked to any of the tenants?
Wasson: Yes we have Mr. Smith, on more than one occasion my neighbors and I have
gone to the Video Land and the Dominoes pizza and talked to them about the garbage
situation. They say that they will take care of it, it has not been taken care of. We have
also talked with the City enforcement officer regarding the noise and the garbage. For
awhile the garbage was not picked up until after 7:00 however recently it has started to
be picked up again in the 6:00 hour.
Smith: Have you spoken with Dominoes Pizza management and talked to them about
their delivery times.
Wasson: Delivery times we really can't, that has not been a real problem sir. What has
though when they are done with their shift they like to occasionally get rid of their pizzas
over the fence. Although I do like Dominoes Pizza, Dominoes Pizza at 7:00 in the
morning when it is has been sitting on my lawn being eaten by the ants is not something
that I or my pup tike to eat.
Johnson: Thank you very much, anyone else from the public that would like comment
on this application?
Joe Carleton, 147p Silverado, Meridian, was swum by the City Attorney.
Carleton: I live approximately right behind this area that we are dealing with. When 1
built in there four years ago none of this development was in there. We have been here
to the hearings before on the problems that are occurring right now in front of this board.
We asked to have a cinder block wall put up similar to the one over there at Albertson's
just for this reason of the noise. My biggest complaint, I am in the construction business
and I have been in it for 20 years, gentlemen I tell you want noise is the biggest problem
and I have it in my backyard. I have four kids and put yourself in my position in that
backyard. You go out there and you have cars squealing, exhaust fumes, you can't
even have a relationship with your family there. We spent a lot of money on our house
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 13
and were not told that this was going to go on. We were not told that this kind of
development was going to be put there, we thought it was going to be a dentist office
type conducive to our subdivision not a place where they are going to have businesses,
this was going to be my last house. I love the neighborhood, all of our neighbors love
the place. But the noise problem back there gentlemen is horrendous. I can't sleep at
night, my kids can't steep, my wife can't sleep and wre have been fighting this thing for 3
'~ to four years and now we are going to put more traffic back there causing more
problems with cars going around by my backyard going out and causing more traffic
problems back there then they can think about. We are going to have to deal with that
every day of our life and those cars aren't going to be old people where they drive
around real slow. They are going to be squealing their tires and there are going to be a
lot of things going on back there that is going to increase the traffic problems and noise
problems back there. 1 said to you guys put yourself in my position where I am living
and you say well that is your problem Mr. Carleton, yes I did buy that place but what it is
doing is saying forget about us at the Vineyards and let these developers come in and
put in anything they want. These guys, I live in Idaho, I love Idaho, I am an Idaho
citizen, I love Meridian and I love our neighborhood. I just want you guys to take a look
at the problems wB have been having and it is going to continue to get vwrse. If you can
help us out here we really would appreciate it. Thank you.
Johnson: Any questions?
Smith: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Carleton who were not told by what type of development was
going on this property?
Carleton: Mr. Smith when I bought the lot from my realtor when 1 went to build my house
I asked specifically what was going to go back there they said it would be similar
developed in an office complex type of situation. The only thing that was there at the
time was the Maverick.
Johnson: Did they go through the zoning with you and what was permitted there?
Carleton: No they did not.
Johnson: When that was zoned these are all permitted uses, I think that is what Mr.
Smith is getting at.
Smith: I think you are probably not the first
information by their realtor. I think it is imps
not get the information from.
homebuyer that hasn't been given accurate
Cant to note that who exactly you did or did
Borup: You like the previous testimony made reference to the wall. The letter refers to a
ten foot wall but then you keep referring to the one at Albertson's, this does not look like
a ten foot wall to me.
Meridian City Planning &Zoning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 14
Carleton: It is up on a berm that is why, they have a canal between them and that
subdivision over there, there is a canal between that Albertson's. We did the plumbing
on that. It is going to cut down the noise (End of Tape)
Brown: (Inaudible) I will address them the best I can. The first gentleman spoke about
four garbage piG< ups per week 1 think you can cheGc Meridian city records there are
two a week. We don't control the times that is their scheduling, if the residents can get
them to schedule those two picks up at a different time we don't have a problem with
that one way or the other. We have to have adequate garbage pick up to get rid of the
garbage from the businesses that are there that is all and it is currently two times a
week. Talked about Dominoes parties, can't address that don't know, we can certainly
talk to the management of Dominoes and tell them what the concerns of the neighbors
are and see if we can get that kind of thing under control. Certainly is not an unusual
request.
Johnson: Before you go on I think that is an important point. It seems to be at least a
major cause of some of the concerns for the neighbors down there. What kind of a
lease do you have that addresses things like being a good neighbor and noise and
debris?
Brown: The terms in our lease require them to comply with the laws and requirements of
the governing jurisdiction which is Meridian City.
Johnson: It doesn't say anything specific it just says complies with the ordinance.
Brown: Exactly there is nothing specific that says don't have parties, I think common
sense tells you that they should not be if that is what is going an after work hours out
there. I can tell you that there are no houses behind dominoes, there is a church behind
Dominoes so t don't know where the parties are taking place that they are referring to.
Currently you cannot drive around this building to the west side. Trash bins he said
were not closed, there again is a management problem. 1 think the lid should be down
on the trash dumpsters and again vwe can talk with them. There may be some stronger
direction we can give the tenants on those leases. I will review the leases and see if
there is some point in there some teeth that we can use to make sure those kinds of
things happen. Dumpsters are enclosed as required by the City the setbacks for them
the screening. Talked about the lights being on, I am not sure exactly sure what lights
he is talking about. They are on timers and all of the businesses are closed the last one
is open at 10:00 they are Gosed at 10:00 and my understanding was that those timers
were set for midnight shut off. They could be moved up to maybe an hour after the
business is Gosed to cover security concerns that the business may have for
employees I don't see any problem with that kind of thing But they are on timers.
Johnson: Since you brought up operating hours what are the operating hours of a Hogi
Yogi for example?
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 15
Brown: 10 p.m.
Johnson: No special summer hours?
Brown: Not that I am aware of. The last gentleman talked about lighting from cars
pulling up to park on the west fence, I think if you have been out there you can see
there is no parking along the west side of the property. That parking is bermed and the
concept of that was to cut down some noise and cut down that kind of problem that he
is talking about. Also the fence that is along there you have observed that too the
continuous board 6 foot high fence.
Johnson: Is that a fence you put in?
Brown: No we did not develop that property, we purchased it after it was developed.
Any other questions while I am here?
Smith: On the fence, given the fact that this is a commercial development and wood
fences take quite a beating as we can see in a couple of the photographs, I hate CMU
fences, I lived in Las Vegas for eleven years and every piece of property had a 6 foot
high CMU fence around it and I hate them. But in this particular situation it may be
appropriate to address some of the noise concerns, the light from headlights concerns
would you be open to working with the homeowners association in concept of
development of a 6 foot high, I think that is adequate for a fence, but would you be open
to working with the homeowners association and developing a fence along periphery of
your property?
Brown: A block fence?
Smith: CMU block wall like similar to what we saw adjacent to the Albertson's property.
Brown: We can consider it if there is some associated bearing of cost with the thing.
Obviously we bought the property based on what we can do with it economically. If we
are going to incur additional cost beyond what we anticipated when we bought I think
we can work with the cost on the thing I would be open to some kind of suggestion
there.
Smith: (Inaudible)
Brown: My brother unfortunately is not here tonight he had some surgery and couldn't
make it. I live in Salt Lake City, I am a native of Idaho, he lives in Idaho. He sees the
property more frequently than I do. I have not been there when t have seen the fence
broken down or anything. I would be glad to look at the pictures but if we need to do
something different in terms of construction of that fence. ff the boards are on the
resident's side of the fence and people are knocking them down from there side then
perhaps we need to do something on our side so that they can't get to the board. There
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 16
may be some alternative things that can be done I don't know. We vaould be willing on
the commercial side of the thing to look at what we can do to solve those problems of
getting the boards knocked off.
Smith: 1 am just concemed about some of these problems that the homeowners are
having there. A lot of them are legitimate concerns and I think it would be nice to see a
good neighbor relationship develop where you can work together.
Brown: I don't disagree with that, we are not here to be a bad neighbor or a pain to the
people who especially the ones that are primarily concemed are the ones that have
homes immediately surrounding that property. We are trying to build a building to
obviously get a return on our investment from that property based on what the Planning
and Zoning laws and ordinances were or are in fact to build on that property. 1 can tell
the first gentleman whose concern is Wendy's and Burger King and so on he is
absolutely 100% wrong that is not what is going in there. We had this discussion with
Meridian City iwo years ago when purchased the property. What is going in there is just
the last phase of the same building that is there. It is going to look substantially identical
to what is in place already with some small strip retail type of users in there. The
tenants that we are talking to v~ currently have no one signed on the lease are the
people that we have represented to you, Hogi Yogi. We have a chiropractor that is
considering putting an office in there. We have a day old bakery store that would like to
locate there. That is pretty standard strip mall kind of tenants. It is not going to be a
Wendy's or someone.
Johnson: Of the 6200 square feet plus how much would Hogi Yogi occupy?
Brown: Approximately 1600 about % of it.
Johnson: So conceivably you would have three more tenants in addition or something
like that.
Brown: Yes that is the cun'ent plan. Thank you
Johnson: One last shot anyone?
Wasson: In response to Mr. Brown's comments the store the Video Land have been
flexing between 11 and midnight for closing and their lights don't go out until
approximately 1:30 or 2 in the morning. They are set on a timer and they do go out but
they shine well over the fence. They are directed out and I asked why and they said it is
for the security of their employees but I have never seen one of the employees there at
1 in the morning. One reason why we talked about a ten foot fence as opposed to a 6
foot fence most kids 14 and up can scale a 6 foot board fence very easily. We don't
have a whole lot of Olympic contenders here that can do a ten foot fence, that is a little
more difficult for them.
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 17
Johnson: I don't have a comment but I don't think our fence ordinance permits ten foot
fences.
Wasson: I don't know sir.
Borup: Again you have make repeated reference to the Albertson's fence
Wasson: Yes sir, and that would be great but again remember the Albertson's like Mr.
Carleton said is up on a berm so that makes a difference. I am not going to split hairs
and say well it depends on where you measure. We are just looking for a little more
security sir.
Johnson: Thank you
Doty Furttman, 1547 N. Santa Rosa, Meridian. Was sworn by the City Attorney.
Furhman: I have a question about the conditional use permit, 1 have some property that
is right behind my fence that is under that also. I have talked to Mr. Elhert before and
that comes up for renewal every year. Is this the same type of permit that comes up for
renewal.
Johnson: It comes up for renewal, the cold hard facts they just are extended
automatically until we receive complaints. In other words that is what makes it
conditional granted for a year subject to conditions.
Furhman: And the permit is granted to the owners of the building that are proposing to
build not the tenants there.
Johnson: That is true.
Furhman: So if it is granted based on their possible tenant of Hogi Yogi who only serves
ice cxeam through a drive through and in January Hogi Yogi decides to go to
hamburgers
Johnson: Well Hogi Yogi isn't even on their application, the only thing on their
application is the drive through window, So it could be some other use using that
window.
Furhman: Okay, based on that I just want to offer my support to the wall and
something harder to scale would be favorable. Thank you
Johnson: Anyone else before I close the public hearing? 1 will close the public hearing
at this time. This is a Conditional use permit, it would require findings of fact and
conclusions of law.
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 18
Nelson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to instruct our City Attomey to
prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law for item #4.
Borup: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to instruct the City Attorney to prepare
findings of fact and conclusions of law for item #4 request by W. Roy Brown and
Richard Brown, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Borup: Mr. Chairman, just a question for my benefit, was the reason for the conditional
because of the drive through window?
Johnson: Yes, drive through windows are always conditioned. Even like the bank at the
Fred Meyers complex.
Borup: I was looking at the zoning and maybe for information for some of the people
here. A neighborhood shopping center there is a permitted use. If they were doing a
shopping center without a drive through they wouldn't even be here.
Johnson: It is already zoned, does anyone have a question on what we did tonight? I
will tell you anyway. This is just step one in about a four step process. We have taken
the public testimony that will be typed up, the City Attorney will prepare findings of fact
and conclusions of law. What that means is he takes the application and tests it against
our ordinances and incorporates the testimony. Comes back to us for approval if we
like it we approve it and send it to the City Council when it goes to City Council you
have another opportunity as the public to testify before the City Council. The City
Council makes the final determination as to whether they are permitted or not. That is
the sequence. If you are interested in a copy of the findings of fact and conclusions of
law you can get them at our next meeting which is January 13.
(inaudible)
Johnson: What we do is actually recommend approval or disapproval of the findings of
fact and sometimes the findings of fact themselves will recommend a denial. So we
might approve a denial or ~ will approve an acceptance based on the ordinance. But
that is all public information once those are prepared and you can have a copy if you
want to see those.
ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
TV BROADCASTING STATION HOPE TV 22 WITH MICROWAVE DISH
STRUCTURES TO BE PLACED ON ROOF, SATELLITE DISHES ON ROOF AND
NEAR BUILDING BY WILLIAM HULL-230 S. MERIDIAN ROAD:
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 19
Johnson: I will now open this public hearing and ask the applicant to address the
Commission at this time.
William Hull, 2424 Fairview Avenue, Caldwell, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Hull: We are endeavoring to develop a television station using the facilities rented from
the Meridian bowling lanes. I understand the main need of the use permit is because of
placing any structure outside of the facility in the form of dishes receiving and sending
dishes. In searching for a building for a television station it becomes very necessary to
have access to where the transmitter is located on Deer Point in order to get the signal
there where the transmitter sends a signal up to an antenna that is on the tower. Then
that is broadcasts it out over the community. So we spent about a month and a half
looking at almost every empty building in the valley and finally felt that this one would
work out very well. Partly because it had that line of site access to the mountain which
was extremely important it eliminated many of the buildings. It was reasonably priced
and favorably located centrally located and a growing community. Meridian is a very
good growing community very fine community and I think identifying with Meridian with
Meridian is a very sensible thing to do. And then also the very fact that Nampa has two
television stations and Boise has a lot of them we thought it would be nice for Meridian
to have a television station. So all of those were the factors that brought us to the
location. We have placed the microwave dish on the roof and tested it, this was
necessary to make sure it would work. If for some reason that location or any type of
obstruction in the way prevented it then we would not be here tonight seeking a use
permit we would be searching for some other facility. So that is why you see the dish
already there on the roof in order to test it. In addition to that dish which sends the
signal to the mountain we will have on the other end of the building which would be the
south end of the building would like to place a receiving dish, the mesh type receiving
dish that you see in many peoples back yards that will bring the signal down from the
satellite. In addition wee will have two 18 inch the small 18 inch dbs dishes that you see
around many of the buildings today. That pretty well will be the extent of any noticeable
change in what the building looks like and has looked like since it was empty for some
time.
Johnson: Thank you very much, I am sure we have some questions Mr. Borup?
Borup: Most of the questions I have got I guess are concerning, have you had a chance
to read the staffs comments especially the site speck. Most of the ones that raised a
question had to do with parking and landscaping. Some of the questions that I have,
this is an existing building, it is not being built new but the widening of Meridian Road is
going to be a major change there, we received a letter from ACHD talking about going
to one entrance so there would be a real configuration of the entrance into that area. I
don't know is that something that your landlord is aware of prepared to work along some
of those landscaping areas or do you know?
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 20
Hull: Yes in fact I was sent down to the highway department to pick up the plans and
didn't know whether you folks already had these in hand or not. But I have these
available the sketches and plans that the highway department has for the landscaping
the driveway, the quit claim deed where he gave 13 or sold 13 inches to the highway
department for expanding the sidewalk. It does change the configuration of the parking,
it Goses really the access of pulling in to the building as it is now. So that the entry
would be either the main entry by the sign or at the end of the property which is like a
driver ally behind the building. He said that we would enter there and then turn and park
inside of the sidewalk area between that and the building. There would be I think 6
parking areas available there which is what we have now.
Borup: So you are saying the configuration of the access is going to open up additional
parking spaces.
Hull: It will just change the direction of it, instead of facing the building to the east it will
be on the south.
Borup: Well I drove through there today and there didn't seem to be a parking problem, 1
realize the bowling alley probably wasn't running.
Hull: There is a lot of parking there in the center area.
Borup: Are you operating yet?
Hull: We are still waiting for the permit to get into operation.
Borup: Have you done all your permitting, I assume you have something to do with the
FCC and etc is that already taken care of?
Hull: I have a copy of the license, we are licensed by the FCC to operate a television
station.
Johnson: Anyone else from the Commissioners? The dishes that are on the roof now,
those are yours? Are those kind of like the final type or are those test or experimental
type dishes?
Hull: That is the final dish for the microwave system on the south end.
Johnson: So they won't be any bigger than that?
Hull: That is an 8 foot dish the mesh dish but it always looks smaller than the 8 foot dish
and the then the 18 inch dishes.
Borup: I understood you say you are still adding dishes to the south side.
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 21
Hull: Yes it would be at the end of the building near the sign area would be the large
(Inaudible)
Borup: What size is going on that side?
Hull: That would beaten foot dish.
Borup: Your note here says 2'/2 I thought.
Johnson: Do you have any idea of operating ideas at this time?
Hull: We hope with automation that there would be very little other than 8 to 5 office
hours. There may be times which we have someone there until 10:00. But generally we
hope things will Gose out as far as the office time around 5 or 6.
Johnson: Is there anyone else here to testify on this application? Any further discussion
at all before 1 close the public hearing?
Borup: Just maybe some questions on where none for you sir, I agree very strongly
what is said about this being a gateway into the community. I wonder how much
restriction we can put on something where Meridian Road hasn't been developed yet. I
assume it would be the landlord taking care of those things.
Johnson: I think I am coming down just like you are coming down is we don't really
know that yet because we don't really know when Meridian Road is going to be
developed except some time soon after a year's time. It would appear to me to be the
landlord's challenge.
Borup: But is that anticipated to be part of Meridian Road's design anyway?
Johnson: I don't know, I would I think it would be but I don't know.
Borup: Sir did you say you had a copy from ACHD of their design? That is probably, if
that is your only copy we don't want to (inaudible)
Hutl: What you are seeing here is the Meridian Mini Center is the building that the TV
station will occupy. You can see where it is directly across from the West Hope Arms
Road and the entry way parking perpendicular to the building will be eliminated because
the sidewalk will go in there and you can see the curving of the curb which will give
access to that alleyway t guess you would say behind it. So then parking the car would
come in that way and tum and go beside the building. He said that they will probably
have about six different parking areas in there.
Johnson: Anything else? I will close the public hearing at this time then. This would
require findings of fact and conclusions of taw.
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 22
Borup: Mr. Chairman, I move we have the City Attomey prepare findings of fact and
conclusions of law on this application.
Nelson: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to have the City Attomey to prepare findings
of fad and condusions of law on item 5, William Hull application, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #6: STEINER CORPORATION: PRESENTATION OF CONCEPTUAL PLAN
FOR THE VILLAS AT THE LAKES:
Johnson: At this time 1 will invite the Steiner Corporation representatives to put on their
dog and pony show.
Bradbury: Members of the Commission my name is Steve Bradbury I am representing
Steiner Development. The purpose for our being here tonight is to just kind of give you
folks a preview of a project that is coming to you for public hearing next month. I have
asked Will to pass down these booklets like this that we put together that provide you
with the information that I am going to go through fairly quickly tonight. What we would
really like to do if we can is just give you an opportunity to look at this thing, provide us
with any feedback that you may have so that we might be able to avoid getting tangled
up in it at the public hearing next month and maybe get some of these issues if there
are any resolved between now and then.
Johnson: No guarantees of course.
Bradbury: I have learned not to expel guarantees. And just kind of give us an idea of
what your thoughts are and maybe we can make this thing go smoothly. What I wanted
to do was to go through the booklet a little bit and tell you a little bit about the project.
The application is for preliminary plat subdivision approval and a conditional use permit
for a planned unit development. The project site is on about 8 'r~ acres located east of
Black Cat Road and it is between Ustick and Cherry Lane. You can get an idea if you
look behind tab four you will find a plat map and then behind that you will find a location
map. It is this piece of ground this rather odd shaped parcel, it is down here, the
southerly Lake at Cherry Lane subdivision area. This piece of ground was part of the
Ashford Greens planned unit development which was approved here a few years back a
couple of years back. The Brighton Corporation was the developer of Ashford Greens,
Brighton Corporation tumed out they did not acquire the site. So Steiner Development
picked it up from Mr. and Mrs. Fuller. At the time I don't remember the date it looks like
it was in September of 1994 the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Coundl
after that gave a concept approval for what was being termed medium density
Meridian City Planning
December 9, 1997
Page 23
&~oning Commission
U
development on this particular parcel of ground as a part of the overall planned
development for Ashford Greens. In the description in the plans or the findings of fact
and conclusions of law that you wilt find behind tab 5 for that project they are talking
about this piece of ground being included at a maximum of 8 units per acre on that
piece. Unfortunately as 1 am looking around looking across the panel 1 think only Mr.
Johnson was on the Planning and Zoning Commission at that time, Which I guess that
means you all get a chance to look at it fresh and Jim you can pay attention or not as
you see fit I suppose. So what the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended and
the City Council approved was yes we will go along with this concept plan but before we
give final development approval for this so called medium density area we want to see a
specific site plan that would be reviewed and approved by the Planning and Zoning
Commission and City Council. That is what you will have before you officially next
month is that specific site plan. Now behind tab two is just kind of a brief summary of
some of the basic general information about the project. The project is currently zoned
R-4 and it is in the City limited. The proposal is to have a total of 46 dwelling units on
that property. 37 of them would be single family units, there would be 3 duplexes and
one triplex. And that calculates out to about 5.63 units per acre. The street interior
streets in the subdivision would tie private streets awned and maintained by the
homeowners association to be formed. Built to a 42 foot right of way with a 5 foot
sidewalk on one side of the street. That is the same dimensions and same standards
that were used both in the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 6 and the Lake et Cherry Lane No.
7. Which are just up the road from this spot. The lot sizes, the information you have
there says 4500 square feet to 8413 square feet, that is not quite right. The 8400 square
foot lot was originally calculated on the triplex lot but that has been divided so it is three
separate lots, so that number isn't any good. But the minimum lot size that would be
proposed in here would be 4500 square feet. Size of the homes as proposed at this
point, is 1304 square feet but you will see behind tab six a whole series of floor plans
and elevations and there are sizes that range up in the 1700 square foot range as well.
So the minimum house size is 1304 and there is only a handful of those. Two car
garages all single story and then there is some additional information with respect to
colors and building materials. If you are interested in more information on that you can
look behind tab 8 where you can see the materials that are being called for. These are
again essentially the same materials that were previously reviewed and approved under
the lake at Cheny Lane No. 6 and 7 both. The layout you can get behind tab four for
the subdivision, this reduced 8 % by 11 is a little hard to read ff you have eyes like mine
anyway. But you can kind of get an idea of pretty much where we are talking about.
Over here on the I guess it would be to the Northeast is the Meridian golf course and we
will have Cherry Lane Village Numbers 1 and 2 on this end and I understand Golfview
Estates is over here. You have the Safford Canal and the Eight Mile up here. Among
the things that are being proposed here you can see this little triangular piece of ground
right here, that little piece right there is actually owned by Steiner development but has
the City owned golf course going across it. Apparently it is on the opposite side of the
canal from the development section. The proposal would be for Steiner to donate that
approximately 3110 of an acre to the City free of charge for the City to continue to use
as part of its golf course. To provide some access (inaudible) The proposal is and we
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 24
are working with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District to see if we can get some approval
to that is to install a cart path along the sewer easement here and then up the canal
easement along here. So the people who are wanting to get from Cherry Lane Village
and Golf View Estates won't have to use the roads necessarily that they can actually
walk or take golf carts up along this pathway system in order to get to the new club
house which is just off of that. So this would all be landscaped and improved with a
path. There had been some talk when this was before the Commission in the past
about the potential connection of Interiachen through the subdivision to the collector
road that is being used to access the Ashford Greens area. The most recent
conversations that vas have had with the Highway District are the same as three years
and they are not very excited about that. The Highway district is concerned about cut
through traffic or people using this road to avoid having to go around Black Cat and
Cherry Lane to get to the various businesses around there instead of cutting through.
That is something 1 think continues to need a little bit of work with ACRD and the City
staff. But it is not something that we have forgotten about altogether. There is a problem
a significant problem and that is that there is a strip of land between the property
boundary that Steiner owns and the right of way and that strip of land is not owned by
Steiner that strip of land is owned by Brighton. So there is a gap, even if we wanted to
put the road through (End of Tape) floor plans and elevations, there are seven d'rfferent
floor plans and each of those floor plans has two potential elevations. There are two and
three bedroom units proposed two bath, two garage and you can see all the rest of that
information if you are interested in that. The building materials again if you are
interested in that they are behind tab 8. Among the things among the exceptions that
we would be seeking approval for under the planned unit development provisions are 15
foot front yard setbacks and street side yard setbacks both of those under the zone 1
believe are 20 feet minimum. This once again was comparable to what was requested
and previously approved for Lake at Cherry Lane 6 and 7. We have a 42 foot right of
way, only 37 feet of that is improved, so that actually give us another five feet of space
to work with. When we have had these issues before we have simply just gotten the
road in the right place and inside that right of way so that we make sure there is a little
bit of extra room on both sides. Anyway the 15 foot front yard setbacks, 15 foot street
side yard setbacks and vwe have some frontages the frontages don't meet the width
requirements under the zone, especially on the flag lotsrf you look at that plat there are
some of those that are pretty skinny. Those ws have typically handled by cxeating
common driveways to provide access to those lots. That is really basically the
information that I wanted to try and get in front of you folks and I am hopeful that either
through questioning or just comments you can give us a little bit of guidance about what
you would like to see us do or some approaches that you might suggest we take.
Johnson: Thank you Steve, 1 appreciate it, this is a very nice proposal, I compliment you
on that. Who do you see is your market for this type of development?
Bradbury: 1 expect that, unlike The Lake at Cherry Lane No. 6 and 7 which were
proposed and approved as housing for older persons under the Fair Housing Act this
one is not, we don't intend to limit it in that fashion. I would expect that you are probably
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission
December 9, 1997
Page 25
going to see people that are either in that age category that don't necessarily want to be
in a senior housing area or people that are starting out into the housing market. And
probably frankly people who would like to have some access to the golf course. I expect
that will be a big selling point.
Johnson: I was wondering if you were targeting any particular age group like you had in
the other.
Bradbury: No, not like the other two.
Johnson: Are those streets private streets?
Bradbury: Yes
Johnson: So the one thing you didn't touch on was lot size which was also a variation.
Bradbury: Right the lot size would be a variation from the standard R-4 requirements,
that is correct. We are talking a 4500 minimum in an R-4 it is 8000 square foot. One
thing I also didn't say if it is approved with private streets it would be gated streets
similar to number 6 and 7.
Johnson: Do you recall our discussions on other projects where we have had a concern
about emergency vehicles and turn grounds and you have accommodated that.
Bradbury: I don't foresee
Johnson: (Inaudible)
Bradbury: 1 don't see that is going to be a problem here either. We can do the same
things we have done in the past through the restrictive covenants. Simply prohibit
parking on both side streets (inaudible) and of course each one of these units is going
to be equipped with a two car garage so there will be a driveway going up to each one
of them. So we will actually have space for each unit to hold four cars on site. 1
suppose there will be occasions where there will be more cars and more people than
that in the community. It is not that big of an area so I am kind of expecting that
shouldn't create too much of a problem. If the Fire Chief has commented on this site
(inaudible) I expect he will. if he is consistent (inaudible)
Johnson: I am sure the other Commissioners have some questions.
Borup: Yes I have a couple, I think your reasons for being here are essentially three
things front setback, lot width, and lot size. That pretty much sums up your concerns.
Bradbury: Those are the issues that we would be looking for accommodation under the
Planned Unit development provisions. Density I guess is maybe another (inaudible)
Meridian City Planning i~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 26
Borup: I am curious, you mentioned you talked with Nampa Meridian on doing a path
along there.
Bradbury: There have been some very preliminary discussions with those folks.
Borup: I was just curious if you had any success with them.
Bradbury: Guarded optimism is the best thing I wrould say.
Borup: The main question I had was the status of 6 and 7, I can't remember which one,
are those homes under construction now/? What is the status of that?
Bradbury: Number 6 the subdivision improvements are under construction now.
Number 7 construction has not yet begun on that one. We are looking at the spring of
1998.
Borup: So you have no response on demand?
Bradbury: Not at this point, nothing
Borup: Apparently you must be anticipating that there is some
Bradbury: Well I am not a marketing guy so all I can do is assume that the guy that is
putting the money up to build these things must have a good idea of what people want
to buy. Doug Campbell is here tonight and he might be able to speak to you a little bit
about the demand on these things. Number 6 if it goes as planned is going to be bought
out right by a single developer by another developer I am sorry builder. So I don't know,
you can probably guess maybe better than I on what that says about the demand.
Borup: 1 guess the reason I ask is obviously wre are talking a lot of waivers or conditions
or reducing and with the way it has been presented 1 think it works but I don't know how
much control you have after it is developed and depending on who comes in and what
kind of job they do and how it is going, if we are looking at a planned development
which is what is proposed and everything is going to come out like you are or if it is just
a small lot area.
Bradbury: I understand
Borup: And I guess that would be from my point my concem.
Bradbury: I see where you are headed with that and 1 think it is a legitimate concern.
One of the things I think you have to try and remember is that this whole section is
being well obviously much of it is now is under development or proposed for
development. What you have been seeing and 1 think what you are going to see over
Meridian City Planning &~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 27
the course of the next 12 months are a couple more applications with a mix of product
shall we say. Where you will see some of the standard R-4 8000 square foot lots and I
think you are also going to see and have seen the projects that we brought to you some
of these other some of the smaller more compact properties that are designed for a little
different buyer. That entire section if you get the map out and look through it there are a
number of different zone designations different lot sizes and different types of products
being built and proposed. From at least from my perspective and from Steiner's
perspective the whole idea is to provide as many different housing choices as possible.
In a vicinity .where there are some amenities, the golf course and there is decent
infrastructure and good shopping and all the other things that are being built.
Borup: It probably takes a development of this size to do that. My comfort level is pretty
good with the minimum square footages, that takes care of a lot of problems you could
have on something like this. But I do think there is a need and I have felt this for awhile
to have varying lot sizes. Everybody doesn't necessarily want a big yard to take care of.
Bradbury: And I think what you also find and I haven't run the numbers it might be
interesting to try and do that some time is to just look at what the overall density is in
that entire mile. It would be kind of curious.
Borup: And that has been one of my comments in the past is the overall density stays
the same and there would be some allowances to have some larger and some smaller.
Bradbury: And by the way if you get a chance to go back and read through the findings
on the Ashford Greens project that is exactly what was being proposed and what the
Commission approved. I can't remember the exact numbers but it was something like
200 and some standard R-4 lots and 200 and some of these smaller ones it was a
pretty even mix with an overall density once you put it all together it was still only at
about 3'/ units per acre.
Smith: I guess first I would just like to reiterate what Chairman Johnson said about the
proposal and presentation. It is very III done, it is a refreshing change from what we
usually see through here.
Bradbury: tt has only taken us 3 years to figure it out.
Smith: Well it shows it wasn't done overnight. I guess the only thing that 1 am going to
need to study here a little bit in the next month is just one of the things I am going to
need to study is the incorporation of the duplex lots and triplex lots. You said it was
Cherry Lane 5 and 6 or 6 and 7 that was adjacent to this?
Bradbury: Immediately adjacent is Cherry Lane Village 1 and 2.
Smith: Do you know what the lot sizes were there and if there were a mix of lot sizes in
those developments?
Meridian City Planning ~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 28
Bradbury: Commissioner I don't know, I am going to say I think they are in the 7000
square foot range, but I don't know exactly, we can get you that information.
Campbell: Doug Campbell, Steiner Development, on the existing going back to 1978 if
you look at the plat I think you can find some lot sizes from 50 by 110 some duplex lots
and some 8000 square foot lots. So 1 think there are all types of uses in the original
Cherry Lane Village.
Johnson: Anything Mr. Nelson? Anybody else? Okay, we are not giving you a whole lot
of feedback have we given you enough. I think you know what the concerns will be
which are kind of standard. How are we going to move the traffic, and how are we going
to control the type of buyer which we won't.
Bradbury: What is your thinking about this connection of Interlachen through to that
collector road. Da you have a strong feeling about it, is it something (inaudible).
Johnson: I know where you are talking about and it makes sense to me. If I live there I
might have a different perspective on that I don't know.
Bradbury: What we are trying to avoid is having creating a place for people to race
through and avoid having to go around.
Borup: Is Brighton developing, that is the one developed on Brighton's portion
Bradbury: That is correct, so I guess theoretically if a connection was something the
City really desired we can design it for a future connection. Unfortunately we don't own
the ground. On the other hand it may not make good sense to you. As I understood it as
it was explained to me at one point part of the reason the City had an interest in having
the connection was in order to make a convenient access for people wanting to go to
the golf course to the new club house. We can take care of part of that by providing a
pedestrian access.
Johnson: The other area of concern I am sure people will have is the rental aspect of
the duplexes and triplexes because that always causes a lot of concern. Because you
don't have that homeowner pride so to speak.
Bradbury: You are right that is one of those issues we can (inaudible)
Campbell: In Cherry Lane ~Ilage, excuse me The Lake at Cheny lane No. 3 which is
our first phase that we started in November 1995. We came to the Commission we had
a culdesac we asked for 8 townhouse lots which Mr. Johnson was aware of we sold
those units, 1500 square feet $126,000 to $132,000 all owner occupied. So that is kind
of the same market that we are going after on those units.
Meridian City Planning i~oning Commission •
December 9, 1997
Page 29
Johnson: Anyone else?
Bradbury: Thank you very much.
Johnson: 1 have nothing further.
Borup: We received a letter from Van Hees on the zoning change but 1 assume he
needs to make a more formal application than this doesn't he?
Johnson: I haven't seen that. I may have missed it.
Borup: There is nothing that vre can even act on this (inaudible)
Nelson: Mr. Chairman 1 move we adjourn.
Smith: Second
Johnson: Motion and a second vse adjoum, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:48 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
M OH SON, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., C-- I~
t:11 Y VF
RECEIVED
- 9 1997
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