1981 04-13
A G E N D A
)IAN PLANNING AND ZONING
April 13, 1981
Minutes of previous meeting
1. Hearing - Total Transportation Services, Inc. Conditional Use
William Eley
2. Hearing - Milton Subdivision Preliminary Plat - 2 1/2 Street
Dick Fisher
1. TOTAL TRANSPORTATION SERVICES, INC. CONDITIONAL USE - APPROVED
2. MILTON SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY PLAT:
"The Motion was made by Sharp and seconded by Mitchell that the
Commission recommend to the City Council that they approve the
Preliminary Plat of Milton Subdivision subject to a property line
agreement made between Jack Hawkins and Dale Milton and that no
development of any kind, or building of any kind, take place on
Lot 2 until brought back to the Planning and Zoning Commission and
the City Council." P1otion Carried
P1eridian Planning &`Zoning ~__ _~ Aril 13, 1981
Meeting called to order by Chairman Annette Hinrichs at 8:08 P.M.
Members Present: Lee~~litchell; Don Sharp; Bob Spencer
Absent: Burl Pipkin and Tom Eddy
Others present: Dick Fischer; Dale Milton; Debbie Flawkins; bill Eley;Ethel Hawkins
The notion was made by Mitchell and seconded by Spencer that the minutes of the previous
meeting be accepted as written.
Motion Carried: All yea
Agenda CONDITIONAL USE HEARIIVG - Total Transportation Services, Inc. - William Eley
1
6i11 Eley, President of Total Transportation Services, Inc. was present to request
a Conditional Use Permit for Vehicle Leasing service. They have a Dealers License
and sale used equipment., do contract maintenance and are in direct competition with
companies such as Ryder but local basis. They rent, sale and lease trucks to local
Commercial business.
Eley: "We feel we can be a good asset to the community, we feel our equipment is
front line, first class equipment and we always maintain to display that way. We
try to put on an excellent appearance and being at the entrance of town we intend
to make a good presentation at all times." "We happen to have about a halfa million
worth of equipment out on that front line and it is all maintained, serviced and ready
to use at all times."
Chairman Hinrichs: "Are there any comments from the public concerning the request
of Total Transportation Services, Inc.?" There was no response.
The Motion was made by Mitchell and seconded by Sharp that Total Transportation
Services, Inc. 521 East First be granted a Conditional Use Permit for Vehicle
Leasing, Sales and Contract Paintenance.
Motion Carried: All yea
Agenda
2 MILTOfJ SUBDIVISION PRELIMIfJARY PLAT HEARIP!G
Dick Fischer and Dale P1ilton were present with Subdivision proposal located on
2 1/2 Street, directly behind 130, 1312 and 1316 2 1/2 Street, Stoner Estate.
Fischer: "This piece of property was on the market, was not sold as one piece of
property. A developer would not want to develop Lot 2, for example, and have a
single family residence on Lot 3. Mr. Milton and the Estate wants to divide the
parcel up into three different lots - Lot one being with the duplex, Lot 2 being
the back piece of property and Lot 3 being the single family residence. It is not
the intent of P~9r. Milton to develop Lot 2 in any way. Fie just wants to plat this
into three different Lots and let somebody purchase Lot 2 and at that time if the
purchaser wants to Subdivide it or put a Planned Unit Development in, or recreation
center, it would be up to them to re-subdivide that plat."
Pitchell: "What would access be?"
Fischer: "To Lot 2?" Mitchell: "Yes" Fischer: "We are dedicating thirty (30)
feet of 4th Street. 4th Street deadends at the property line right now. We are
dedicating our half of 4th Street to the property. According to Ada County Highway
District we don't have to extend 4th Street because of this type of a Plat. 2 1/2 St.
would be done under a LID at a later date. Ada County Highway District wants a
dedicated 30 foot right-of-way from center line of 4th Street, which we're doing,
and they said"prior to the approval of Lot 2 the ACHD shall review and approve Lot
access and development plan. This restriction to be delineated on the plat which
we intend to do on the plat. Also, 3rd Street, which ends just north of the property
line can be extended if the property is developed, and can be developed into the
property. It abuts against the fence." "Rick Orton was wondering about the fences -
the reason that our property does not hit the existing fence line is because there was
some survey proble~s out there and at the time that J-U-B Engineers did the
survey for Bates property the existing fences were out there and rather than try to
Meridian Planning & Zoning .2. ___ __ April 1981
fight or get into a hassle with Mr. Stoner on this property, they elected to Plat
the Subdivision for Bates' up to that existing fence. We have since surveyed this
property, we have contacted a lot of people out there - we show the boundary where
theoretically it's supposed to be and Mr. Bates is going to work with Mr. Milton
and the property from our property line to that fence belongs to hlr. Bates - there
is no question about it."
Mitchell: "How about these people bordering, like Ferguson?"
Fischer: "Actually what they are going to be doing is gaining property"
Mitchell: "And then the Corporation over here and Hawkins?"
Fischer: "The people on the other end - J-U-B Engineers did a survey for A&C Corp.
and the determined property line that they surveyed, the pins are about 12 feet to
the south of our property line. So the A&C Corp. would actually be gaining about
12 feet."
Mitchell: "Then there is no problem getting this corrected?"
Fischer: "Plo, as far as we are concerned, what we have out there, what we call the
deed line has pretty much been agreed on by the property owners as this is where it is."
"The Fire Dept. has stated that they disapprove of the proposal. 4Je are not changing
anything that is not already in existence, other than making it into three lots. The
access is not being changed. Like I say, if Lot 2 is developed in the future, then
4th Street will be extended and possibly 3rd Street be extended for the Fire District.
It would be for public access but for the Fire District also.:'
Mitchell: "It is possible to bring 3rd Street dewn and come over on Gth Street?"
Fischer: "It could do that or brought down a make a culdesac so it could be brought
into Hawkins property or the back of A&C Corp - or could be brought around into a 90°
back to 4th Street."
Mitchell: "Someday, Someway, Somebody is going to have to do something with that
lot too."
Fischer: "Whoever develops Lot 2 is going to have to come before the Planning and
Zoning and Plat the whole thing."
Chairman Hinrichs: "Anyone from the public wish to comment?"
Debbie Hawkins: "My concern is, when they surveyed about a month ago, Mr. Milton
contacted my husband (Jack) and of course they went out and surveyed, remeasured -
and it sounds like everyone tends to gain but us, we are losing property. There is an
existing fence line that has been there for years and we are losing between four to six
feet of our property. At the time that Mr. Milton did the survey and my husband talked
to him, we were not aware that an existing fence line after so many years, and if we
have maintained it, we have some right to it. !Je are losing several feet of our
property. My husband couldn't be here because he is working and I don't know as much
as he about this. We are not too happy about this situation as you can see everyone
is gaining but us and we have maintained this property for eight years in August.
At the time we were concerned about it but hadn't gotten to check into it, since then
we have talked to different people and an attorney, and found out where we stood on
this, which would mean the way the survey stands right now my husband would have to
do some changing around."
Sharp: "Which parcel is yours?" "This parcel marked as "Lands of hlawkins?"
Hawkins: "Right"
Mitchell: "Doesn't Grandfather rights have something to do about those buildings?"
Fischer: "The only way I can answer that is that we will survey the deed lines for
the deeds that we get. We will also locate possession lines, which we have got -
and then it is up to the property owners involved to come between them and get a
property line agreement or resolve the problem."
Ethel Hawkins: "When Dale Bates developed his property they surveyed it, on Badley Ave.
the street right-of-way was O.K. And when they started surveying I think it was about
a 30 foot strip and everybody was that much too far south. I couldn't go to the
Hearing at that time - about 1972 - but they went to court and they surveyed, and
surveyed that part of the street and finally got all of those boundaries. I thought
he bought a strip between the street and his pasture. It seems like that's where
everybody put their fences up. It started in Carlton and P1rs. llebbs property was out
in that half of Carlton and it was off that much. I know they went into Boise and
did a lot of work surveying - and I thought every boundary line was taken care of on
down to Carlton Street at that time. And there was a strip that Dale bought and he
Planning &
.3.
put his houses right at Badley Avenue. Our property line was right and I am on the
corner of Badley and 2 1/2 Street."
Hinrichs: "Map showsBradley" Hawkins: "It should be Badley"
Sharp: "O.K. Badley is the street that runs on the north side of Dale Bates property,
right?"
Ethel Ilawkins: "Yes, and then he developed 3rd Street and I have a back lot that is
on the corner of 3rd and Badley - my neighbor has a back lot and that's why we want
to see 3rd Street extended."
Sharp: "Your property does not border this property in question?"
Hawkins: "Plo but we were involved and had to go to court at the time the 30 foot
street was put over."
City Clerk: "Did you at that time move any fences?"
Hawkins: ""Jo, all our survey pipes were fine - but it was everything on south."
"I don't know what happened with Jack Hawkins', I thought everything was
settled. I can't remember how much they finally decided."
Fischer: "We have talked to Dale Bates and J-U-B Engineers, and we've compiled all
the surveys that were done out there and there is unquestionably some problems out
there."
Hinrichs: "Planning and Zoning cannot resolve problems with property lines, anymore
than the surveyors can. Our question will have to be simply do we approve this
Preliminary Plat?"
Sharp: "I don't think we can approve anything until we have some property lines we
can approve. To me, this is something for the people to work out or go to court and
let the court decide. We can't change property lines - we have no jurisdiction in
that area. But frankly, the strips are quite narrow - a little shifting, a little
trading should be able to be worked out so that everybody could be happy."
"I think it would be improper for us to try and Subdivide a piece of property if we
don't have a legal description that at least everybody that attends the meeting
agrees to."
Dale Milton: "Mr. Hawkins, Jack, and I chained this all out and I don't understand -
when I left that day I thought he figured he was gaining about seven (7) feet."
Debbie liawkins: "i~le we didn't gain any - that day there was a verbal agreement and
then after talking to several people about the property lines and had talked to an
attorney about it „ we have an established fence line there - we tend to lose several
feet with this."
There was discussion between Debbie Hawkins and Milton which had no bearing on public
hearing.
The Motion was made by Sharp and seconded by Mitchell to table Preliminary Plat of
Milton Subdivision until requested to be removed from table and reconsideration.
Plotion Carried.: All yea
Fischer: "When we came in tonight we thought the boundaries were resolved."
There was discussion stating that everyone else does not object. All property owners
within 300 feet have be mailed by certified mail notice of public hearing. There
were no objections.
Fischer: "The legal description that is on that map is the legal description that was
furnished to us and we surveyed it per that legal description. We surveyed these lines
which is on a legal description he has, and we just showed on here by lines - the
fence line."
Milton: "Mr. Aubrey Smith had stated back in the 40's somebody wanted to move these
(boundaries) and went out at night and moved the stakes and this was where they put
the fence in. He (Smith) said when they sold that property on the south end where
the apartments are (The Villa) he just went out and moved his fence over and let them
have it - he didn't even argue over it."
Milton: "You wont give us a decision for another months?"
Mitchell: "I requested that Sharp modify the Motion to say "when you guys are ready -
bring it in"
~ridian Planning & Zoning .4. April 13, 1981
City Clerk: "May 11th is the next meeting?"
Fischer: "Do we have to send out Certified Mailing again?"
City Clerk: "PJo" property line
Fischer: "The "Ted Hepper Survey" shows the A&C Apartments/being about twelve
feet south of our deed line. They are supposed to be one and the same - in fact
I talked to with them tonight and it's apparently 13 feet."
There was discussion as to the time frame of resolving property line problem.
The Motion was made by Sharp and seconded by Spencer to remove Milton Subdivision
Prelirr~inary Plat Proposal located East of 1304, 1312 and 1316 2 1/2 Street
from the Table
Motion Carried: All yea
Fischer: "If lot 2 were ever sold it would have to be replotted, which would have
to go through the same process as a Preliminary Plat to Subdivide that parcel of land."
Sharp: "If it were to be re-subdivided..but somebody could come in and build a house
on 4th Street side of this and eventually somewhere down the road we are going to have
a landlocked piece of ground that somebody is going to be very upset about because we
wont let them develop. I would be hard pressed to vote against a development, but I
would not be hard pressed to put some very serious restrictions on what could happen
there - the type of development, the street configuration and so forth."
"There's going to have to have streets come in here - at least two different points"
"The only thing we've got to protect the City and the future owners against is that
they have a right to use that particular land, so I think we want to say there will be
no development including building one (1) house until such time that it comes back to
Planning 'u Zoning and City Council."
Fischer: "We have no objection for a stipulation like that - whoever buys it is going
to be made aware that they are going to have to come back in to get your approval."
More discussion takes place.
The Motion was made by Sharp and seconded by Mitchell that the Commission recommend
to the City Council that they approve the Preliminary Plat of Milton Subdivision
subject to a property line agreement made between Jack Hawkins and Dale Milton and
that no development of any kind, or building of any kind take place on Lot 2 until
brought back to the Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council.
P4otion Carried: All yea
Hinrichs: "Flearing closed"
The Motion was made by Sharp and seconded by Spencer that the meeting adjourn at
9:00 P.M. Motion Carried: All yea
Fleeting Adjourned.
Attest:
t Clerk l%Y~'~~
pc: Mayor & Council
Planning & Zoning Commission
(Complete list of mailing
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