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1981 07-13 A G E N D A Meridian Planning and Zoning Comm. July 13, 1981 ITEM: P4inutes of the previous meeting held May 11, 1981 )APPROVED Minutes of the meeting held June 15, 1981 - No Quorum ) 1. HEARING - Conditional Use fora Indoor Rifle Range 136 E. Idaho Peridian Jr. Rifle Club APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS 2. HEARING - Condition Use fora Saw Shop or "Fix-it-Shop" Donald E. Calhoun 331 West Idaho APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS 3. HEARING - Rezone from "A" to "C" Commercial 223 East Idaho St. William B. Andrews APPROVED "C" Limited Office 4. Preliminary Replat - Country Terrace Sub. No. 2 Replatting of Lots 1 through 7, 12, and 13 of Block 1, Lot 1 of Block 3 and A Portion of Country Terrace Way APPROVED HEARING 5. CONDOMINIU MS converted from Four-Plex - Franklin Square Lot 11 in Block 5 Potter & Associates representing RECOMMENDED DENIAL Meridian Planning & Zoning Meeti Regular meeting of the Peridian Planning and Zoning Commission called to order by Chairperson Annette Hinrichs at 8:05 P.M. f4embers Present: Don Sharp; Lee Mitchell; Bob Spencer; Tom Eddy Burl Pipkin, Absent Others Present: Ross Hadfield; Theron Burgess; Bill Andrews; Don Calhoun Edith Calhoun; Steve Hosac; John Carter P4inutes of the previous meeting held May 11, 1981 approved as read. Minutes of the meeting held June 15, 1981 - No Quorum - approved as read. Agenda HEARING - Conditional Use for an Indoor Rifle Range - 136 E. Idaho 1 Meridian Jr. P.ifle Club Ross Hadfield and Theron Burgess were present to represent request to put an indoor rifle range in the basement of the Old Bazaar building, now Potter & Assoc. Hinrichs: "The Hearing is now open." Hadfield: "I have been running the Junior Rifle Club for something like 20 years We have a program strictly for juniors and have around 100 to 110 kids a year. We lost our range when someone bought the Modern Woodman Hall and now Potter has agreed to use the basement of the old Cash Bazaar. There is no noise - when we were shooting below Earl Bolen's office once: in awhile he could hear a pop. Twenty-two and air rifle, if we can go in to this new place we will put in the new Olympic Sport. Nearly 10% of the kids that graduated from Feridian high School this year have been in our program, 51 of the 537 that graduated. Mitchell: "Are you going to teach the "Hunting Safety"? Hadfield: "Yes, we've been doing it - Mr. Barnum has been doing out at his house. In fact he has five or six kids this week. Mitchell: "You have to do that before you can get a hunting license?" Hadfield: "Right ,if they are under 16, which is a good thing." Don Sharp: "There is no noise problem then?" Hadfield: "No, when you are right there and shooting they have ear muffs they wear- I don't." Sharp: "Have you had a chance to see the Fire Department comments?" Hadfield: "I don't see any problem there, I think we can come up with what Skip want's there. We will have to some rearranging - the Optimist Club has promised to furnish some of the funds. We have to tear out an old furnace and do some remodel- ing to bring it up." Sharp: "Looking at the comments from the Building Inspector and the Fire Department it 10016 like you will have to do quite a bit of remodeling to bring it into compliance and acceptable to them. I don't have any problem as long as it is in compliance with the Fire Department and the Building Department." Hinrichs: "Are there any other comments from the Public?" Theron Burgess: "I have helped a little bit with the program while Ross was back in Michigan. I have one boy in the program and he had the opportunity to shoot at about three tournaments, and I think it is a tremendous program to have here in Meridian. 6Jith the shortness of things for kids to do in Meridian it is just a must that we have a place for them to shoot. This is really a good program." There was discussion concerning the Policemen looking fora place to practice. Hadfield: "Piaybe this shouldn't be on the air but over the years we allowed the policemen to come down and practice. But your police can't go down and shoot 357 mg's standard loads. ldhat they do in the rifle ranges, the traps we have will take up to a 357 but when they came down to practice they use pistol 22's. Right now our rifle club has six air pistols for you people that want to learn, the pistol istself when you go to pick it up you would swear it was a 38 - the weight, every- thing is there, except it uses a 177 caliber pellet. A little background on this training, Fritz Randolph who won the world running boar match in South America last year, never shot on an outdoor range. He did his entire training on the same as we have planned, with air rifles. It is a new contest and we have this planned to put in. We have some of the best known people right here in Meridian." Planning & Zoning .2. July 13, 1981 Agenda 1 (Cont'd) Hadfield: "Our kids right here have won seven National Titles - outshot eveyone in the Nation." "An outdoor range is a lot harder to control your rifles and there is weather con- ditions. There has never been an accident in an approved indoor range since 1923." Hinrichs: "Any further comment?" No response The i4otion was made by Don Sharp and seconded by Lee htitchell that the Commission recommend the Council approve the P1eridian Jr. Rifle Range project at 136 E. Idaho subject to their compliance with the requirements established by the Building Inspector, the Fire Department and any other Codes of the City. P1otion Carried: All yea Agenda HEARING - Conditional Use fora Saw Shop or "Fix-it-Shop" - 331 West Idaho 2 Don and Edith Calhoun were present to request a Conditional Use for a shop at their residence, 331 West Idaho. Hinrichs: "The Public Hearing is now open." P1ithcell: "We were down earlier to look at your proposed location. It does pose some hazard for being tied onto your house and as close to the neighbors. It's too bad you don't have a separate little shed back there." Don Calhoun: "If you would give me a permit I would like to put a little barn type building back there and keep it separate. About a 10 x 12." There was much discussion concerning the construction of a metal building, the setbacks, etc. Mr. Calhoun stated that he would prefer building a separate unit. Tom Eddy studied diagram with Calhoun so as to check setbacks. The Commission felt there was sufficient space but cautioned Calhoun about keeping items stored and not laying around. It was the feeling of the Commission that there would be no problem as long as the shop was out and away from the house, trees and neighbors. The Ada County Highway District's recommendation was discussed and it was the unaminous feeling of the Commission that Calhoun not be required to do the road improvement. Calhoun stated that he had contacted the ACHD and vaas told it was only a recommendation. The P4otion was made by Mitchell and seconded by Spencer that the Commission recommend to the City Council approval of a separate building altogether facing West 4th Street with all setback requirements and to meet with City Codes. Motion Carried: All yea Hearing Closed. Agenda 3 HEARIfdG - Rezone from "A" to "C" Commercial - 223 East Idaho St. - Wm. Andrews Williams Andrews was present to request the rezone to Commercial of 223 E. Idaho. Hinrichs: "Public Hearing is now open." William B. Andrews: "I am one of the owners and we would like to have this property rezoned so that we could possibly use it for an office." Hinrichs: "This request states "and/or retail" Andrews: "I put everything in case" Hinrichs: "Covering all bases?" Andrews: "I had someone interested in renting it fora Real Estate Office." Hinrichs: "When the new ordinance is done this whole area will be mixed use area and will have to be condition." Hinrichs: "Are there any questions concerning this request?" Mitchell: "If you want to go with limited office on a "C" I would consent, I don't go fora retail store." Plannino & Zonin Agenda 3 (Cont'd) lv 13, 1981 Andrews: "The only reason I thought about retail is that somebody else had asked me if they could put a beauty shop in there." Hinrichs: "Are there any comments from the public for this rezone request?" Jim Potter: "I support the applicants request, I own the property across the alley and slightly to the east and I believe that is the proper zoning for all of that." Hinrichs: "Since there are no further comments the Hearing is closed." The Motion was made by Spencer and seconded by Sharp that the Commission recommend approval to the Council of the rezone to "C" Limited Office for 223 East Idaho. Plotion Carried: All yea Agenda REPEAT 4 rreliminary Plat - Country Terrace Subdivision No. 2 Steve Hosac and John Carter were present to request the replatting of Lots 1 through 7, 12, and 13 of Block 1, Lot 1 of Block 3 and a portion of Country Terrace Way No. 2 Steve Hosac explained to the Commission in detail why the requirement was placed to extend the road into future proposed Meridian Greens. Hosac displayed the original Subdivision Plat and the Replat map. Hosac:. "All of this right-of-way exchange has been done by deed" "The reason we are here today with this application is that everything that was done was done by deed - the right-of-way exchange, the excepting off of the rear most Dart of the lots and so forth." Tape and all maps on file in City Clerks Office, tlerfdian City Hall. The P1otion vaas made by Lee Mitchell and seconded by Don Sharp that the Commission recommend approval to the City Council of the Preliminary Replat of Country Terrace Subdivision Number 2, replatting of Lots 1 through 7, 12 and 13 of Block 1, Lot 1 of Block 3 and a Portion of Country Terrace lday. Motion Carried: A71 yea ends HEARING for converted Four-Plex to Condominiums - Fanklin Square 5 Jim Potter, Potter and Associates, Inc., was present representing Jim Kane, Valley Contractors. Hinrichs: "The public hearing is now open." Potter: "Have you read the FIPJDIPJGS OF FACT?" Sharp: "I agree with Dick Williams, vae live in Idaho - not New Jersey." Potter: "Unfortunately we have no case law here in Idaho." Potter: "We have an existing four-plex. At the time it was constructed it met all fire and safety and other codes for apartments. There is also a basic law that has been upheld in several state courts including the U.S. District Court in New Jersey that says that you cannot impose different standards from tennant occupants and owner occupants. tdhen somebody sells a home in Peridian we do not require that the home be brought up to current specifications. This is what my client is being asked to do in this case. The problem we see is this, he has been told that he can convert this to two different ownerships - a cooperative ownership. bihich means I get four of you together and I go down and file a cooperative papers--" Sharp: "Who told him this?" Potter: "Building Inspector'; and I understand it has been done here in P":eridian. That's what is disturbing to us as that is what "Condiminium" means, ownership is cooperative in this." "These units meet all fire and safety codes, whether they are tennant occupied or owner occupied there should be no difference. The only factor is that the Safety Code has changed in the last two years." Eddy: "You can't compare with a residence." Potter: "It is a residence." Eddy: "A residence is four people, not one person." Sharp: "I disagree with you Jim because this is not a resale of an existing lot, Meridian Planning &Zoning .4. July 13, 1981 Agenda 5 (Cont'd) Sharp: this is a Subdivision - you are in here for platting a new subdivision. I think you are in a different ballgame." Potter: "Technically you're correct, although theres question whether conversions require platting in the actual state law. There isn't a provision to cover it." Sharp: "In my opinion it's a replat" Mitchell: "When they sell a house appraised FHA or GI you have to bring the electrical and everything else up to Code." Potter: "Electrical and Plumbing. Contrary to one of the comments made by Councilman blilliams this is separately plumbed and separately wired. Four separate power meters, water meters." Spencer: "If the State can tell by State Law an electrician that goes in to do something on a house that is not up to todays Code - he must bring that up to Code, What about structurally? Potter: "It's not structurally, basically it's fire wall. In housing that has not been required to be brought up." Mitchell: "If you mess around with your own house, you just burn yourself down but with this you would burn somebody else up." Potter: °My question is this - what is the difference between four people that 9o down and file cooperative ownership and four people that own 1/4 of that building by described distances and measurements?" "Condominium means cooperative ownership" "Single ownership of airspace but cooperative ownership of the building on condominiums." Potter: So I have been told, here in Meridian, where we have taken apartments and converted them by cooperative ownership into a multi-owner conveyance. I can see no difference in a functional aspect of a so-called cooperative ownership or a condominium, because a condominium is a cooperative ownership." Eddy: "I have to disagree with you on that, I wouldn't recommend either one of those at this point." hlitchell: "It was build as a Four-plex intentionally:' Potter: "At the time they built it the concept of conversion was brought up and no additional stipulation were imposed upon it at that time." Mitchell: "The original intent was the future alternative of converting." Sharp: "I would beg to differ with you Mr. Potter." Potter: "This is what both the builder and the developer has told me." Sharp: "Until he tears down those storage sheds down there, I'll disagree with you" Hinrichs: "He also told us that those storage sheds would be just like Broadbent Office Park." Potter: "No, but if we are going to allow cooperative ownership we should allow condominium conversion." Eddy: "I don't think we should allow either one." Hinrichs: "Do you think there's a difference in having property to rent out temporary type basis and property to own to live in?" Potter: "You're saying that a person that owns has more right to safety than a person than rents them?" Sharp: "So what you're saying is that we should have the right to take our homes and convert them into four-plexes?" Potter: "No, no - they have to meet other codes. They have separate plumbing, separate entrances, electrical entrances, they meet the floor space requirements that were imposed at that time, the fire wall protection in the side walls - the only difference is in the ceiling. The reason is that they did meet the codes that was in effect at the time they were constructed." Mitchell: "I have to agree, there shouldn't be any safety difference between apartments or co-op's. But why do we even have a different definition, if there isn't a difference?" Potter: "There is nothing in the Idaho Law that speaks of cooperative ownership property other than the condominium act," Mitchell: "But we do have apartment houses and we do have condominiums - I'm talking about all codes, safety, wiring, etc. - all those technically should be the same." Spencer: "They can't have separate entrances would be the difference. If you get it approved as apartments are there separate meters?" Potter: "These were separate metered. They were purposely separated for the long ,., •a• o, x ~ 5 July 13, 1981 Agenda 5 (Cont'd) Potter: term potential of being converted. We are doing several in Boise right now, Boise requires if they do not meet code the statement of fact has to be placed upon the plat." Pitchell brought up the apartmentsthat burned so fast in Boise on Broadway. They did not have the firewall. There was more discussion concerning stringent laws place on Condominiums. (Tape on file) Potter: "There's already an air space, so you have a two hour fire wall here. At the time these were constructed a two-hour fire wall between floors was not a requirement in either tennant occupied or owner occupied." Potter: "This is a problem we have got to face, it's going to come up again and I guess our request is to resolve it." Sharp: "I still think in good faith, I will have to vote against it, that we ought to bring this property up to code if we are going to sell it - there's a difference between tennant occupied property and somebody that owns a piece of property. If I own apiece of property I would like to have it protected from something else that somebddy else might do regardless of what the Code's say. I have property rights and when you do something to endanger my property because something isn't up to Code then I think my rights have been violated. So I think the future owners of that property has just as much right to have the property brought up to Code as this gentlemen has the right to try and sell the property." Potter: "Do you think that there is anybody's property rights violated on any condominium conversion? You must make full disclosure and state any codes not met with current codes. That's a state statute. The person that buys that has full disclosure and knows what, if any, codes are current standards." Mitchell: "How many really read the fine print and know that?" Potter: "I mean - you still have four families living there. I would say that four families that live there are going to have more of a concept of what the status of that building is, structurally, fire safety rating, etc. than four renters will - by far." Sharp: "Fora project like this, if you're going to protect property rights - and that's one of our obligations as Planning and Zoning - condominium projects really ought to be bigger than four units. I do not think that four units is sufficient size fora condominium project." There was discussion concerning common area, parking area. Tape on file Spencer: "I am going to stick with the ordinances, it's as simple as that." Hinrichs: "Are there any more questions from the Commission?" (No response) Hinrichs: "Are there any comments from the public?" (PJo response) "Hearing none, the Hearing is closed" The Motion was made by Don Sharp and seconded by Bob Spencer that the Commission recommend that this request be denied until the project is brought in compliance with Item 12-C and all other requirements of the Meridian City Code. Plotion Carried: Spencer, yea; Eddy, yea; Sharp, yea Mitchell, abstained Mitchell: "I'm not against the Motion, I'm against Condo's, period." There being no other business to come before the Commission the motion was made by Mitchell and seconded by Sharp that the meeting be adjourned at 9.26.P.M. Meeting Adjourned. ATTEST: ' ~, t~%E"id~ i y Clerk Chairman