1996 08-13MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
AGENDA
TUESDAY, AUGUST 13, 1996 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JULY 9, 1996:
(APPROVED)
TABLED JULY 9, 1996: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE RANCH SUBDIVISION
BY THE WESTPARK COMPANY: (TABLED UNTIL OCTOBER 8, 1996)
2. TABLED JULY 9, 1996: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE RANCH
SUBDIVISION BY THE WESTPARK COMPANY: (TABLED UNTIL
OCTOBER 8, 1996)
3. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR REZONE REQUEST
BY KELLE WATKINS AND DOUG STEWART: (APPROVE FINDINGS;
APPROVE RECOMMENDATION)
4. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO C-G AND I-L BY DOUG TAMURA AND
ARTHUR BERRY: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF
FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
5. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY: (TABLED
UNTIL SEPTEMBER 10, 1996)
6. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO C-G BY EAGLE PARTNERS LLC:
(CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
7. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CHEVRON C-STORE, MCDONALD'S
W/DRIVE THRU, AND AN 80 ROOM HOTEL BY EAGLE PARTNERS:
(TABLED UNTIL SEPTEMBER 10, 1996)
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR VACATION OF EASEMENT BY
RICHARD VALL.A: (RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO CITY COUNCIL)
9. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
KARATE CLASSES BY BRAD AND DEBBIE MILLER: (TABLED UNTIL
SEPTEMBER 10, 1996)
10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN
ITALIAN RESTAURANT BY CHRIS MALLANE: (CITY ATTORNEY TO
PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
11. PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR BRIDGEWOOD CONDOMINIUM
BY BOISE VALLEY CONSTRUCTION: (RECOMMEND APROVAL TO
CITY COUNCIL)
12. PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR BRIDGEWOOD
CONDOMINIUM BY BOISE VALLEY CONSTRUCTION: (CITY
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS
OF LAW)
MER• N PLANNING & ZONING COMM• ION
AGENDA
TUESDAY, AUGUST 13, .1996 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JULY 9, 1996: ~/~/~~ 4~'~-
TABLED JULY 9, 1996: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE RANCH SUBDIVISION
BY THE WESTPARK COMPANY: ~ ~''- ~n~i ~ c'rr.t ~ -~ t~
2. TABLED JULY 9, 1996: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE RANCH
SUBDIVISION BY THE WESTPARK COMPANY: ?3 ~~ ~~-~ ricf; t''~/~J
3. FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR REZONE REC~VEST
BY KELLE WATKINS AND DOUG STEWART: ~z~yf'~va ~rr~'~ ~` ~~/~
~Lr~/Y~/Z i'2L ern n-c..~. ~t~-t7 v-n. ~ ~~~L-
4. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO C-G AND I-L BY DOUG TAMURA AND
ARTHUR BERRY: C'i~v/ Rte"~~ ~a~re~a~e ~~f ~ ~~~
5. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY:
6. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO C-G BY EA/GLE/ PARTNERS LLC:
7. PUBLIC HEARING CONTjINUE/D FrROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CHEVRON C-STORE, MCDONALD'S
W/DRIVE THRU, AND AN 80 ROOM HOTEL BY EAGLE PARTNERS:
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR VACATION OF EASEMENT BY
RICHARD VALLA: i"t'CO1~-ar cBn~G~ -cam C'jC~ ~ cz~r~r'ov~z-L'
9. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
KARATE CLASSES BY BRAD AND DEBBIE MILLER:
f r,6~i° ~,r~,,.tc J~~r; Ju/~ yrc~.
10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN
ITALIAN RESTAURANT BY CHRI MALLANE:
11. PUBLIC HEARING: PFELIMINARY PLAT FOR BRIDGEWOOD CONDOMINIUM
BY BOISE VALLEY CONSTRUCTION:
Y~c ash ~, e,2cC w~+~.-~~ ~' fv ~%/c,
12. PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR BRIDGEWOOD
CONDOMINIUM BY BOISE VALLEY CONSTRUCTION:
C~i~y ~,Cfarrce~ f*~ ~m~epar~e ~~~~/ c%
MERIDIAN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION AUGUST 13, 1996
The regular meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order
by Chairman Jim Johnson at 7:30 P. M.:
MEMBERS PRESENT: Keith Borup, Greg Oslund, Malcolm MacCoy:
MEMBERS ABSENT: Jim Shearer:
OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Richard
Williams, Rodney Truax, Charles Horel, Rick Valla, Howard Foley, Bob Henbest, Ted
Hanson, Dan and Angie Duncan, Darlene LaPizza, Doug Tamura, Billy Ray Strite, John
Jackson, Steve Brown, Marty Seager, Dennis Nelson, Karen Gallagher, Sharon
Christianson, George Kiler, Janet Butterfield, Kent Brown, Ann Brown, Brad Miller, Wes
Weast, Pete Rockwell, Corey Grant, Charles Eddy, Tony Drost, Charles Eddy:
Johnson: The first item on the agenda is I would like to recognize an individual that has
contributed his time on a volunteer basis for the past 7 1/2 years and has resigned from
our commission to become more involved in his business and his father's business and
that is Tim Hepper. If Tim , if you would come up at this time I would like to present you
with this certificate for your service to the City of Meridian for the past 7 1/2 years.
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JULY 9, 1996:
Johnson: Are there any additions, deletions or corrections to these minutes?
MacCoy: 1 have a question here, was Tim here, do you recall? We show him down the
way here being absent.
Johnson: Thank you Malcolm, anyone else? No other changes then I would entertain a
motion for approval of the minutes as written.
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I recommend the approval of the Planning and Zoning minutes
for last meeting.
Oslund: Second
Johnson: Moved and seconded we approve the minutes as written with the correction
stated by Commission MacCoy, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #1: TABLED JULY 9, 1996: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE RANCH SUBDIVISION
BY THE WESTPARK COMPANY:
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 2
ITEM #2: TABLED JULY 9, 1996: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE RANCH
SUBDIVISION BY THE WESTPARK COMPANY:
Johnson: Has there been any additional information submitted to staff on these
applications? Does staff have any comments?
Smith: No additional information has been submitted to Public Works Department Mr.
Chairman.
Stiles: Mr. Chairman, the only information I had was a telephone conversation with the
applicant that indicated he was working on acquisition of some other properties and would
be coming in with a new plan but I have not seen anything in writing or had any additional
information submitted.
Johnson: Thank you very much, what would you like to do with these two items
gentlemen?
Oslund: Mr. Chairman, I move that we table items 1 and 2 until the October meeting,
regularly scheduled October meeting.
MacCoy: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to table these items to a date certain of October
8, 1996, items 1 and 2, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #3: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR REZONE REQUEST
BY KELLE WATKINS AND DOUG STEWART:
Johnson: You have the findings before you, is there any discussion regarding these
findings of fact and conclusions of law?
Oslund: I had a question on page 6, under section 15, the last sentence there, it says that
the applicant was told to his cut off coming out of the particular lot, it appears that
sentence is a bit jumbled, I was wondering if anybody knew exactly what that meant.
Johnson: Mr. Crookston, can you enlighten Mr. Oslund?
Crookston: That was a statement by Mr. Longden, I agree that it is a little bit difficult what
he was trying to state but that is what he stated. I had a problem with that myself but I put
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 3
it in as he stated.
Oslund: Good enough.
Johnson: Any other discussion regarding the findings of fact and conclusions of law?
What would you like to do with this?
Oslund: Mr. Chairman, I move that Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of the City
of Meridian hereby adopt and approve these findings of fact and conclusions of law.
MacCoy: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to approve the findings of fact as written, this
is a roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Borup -Yea, Oslund -Yea, Shearer -Absent, MacCoy -Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Johnson: Any decision or recommendation you wish to pass on to the City Council at this
time?
Oslund: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Meridian City Planning and Zoning Commission
hereby recommends approval of this rezone requested by the applicant for the property
described in the application with the conditions set forth in these findings of fact and
conclusions of law and that the property be required to meet the water and sewer
requirements, the fire and life safety codes, the uniform building code and other
ordinances of the City of Meridian including that all parking areas shall be paved.
MacCoy: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to pass the decision onto the City Council, the
recommendation onto the City Council as stated, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Johnson: Before I get into that I should introduce a new commissioner that has taken Mr.
Hepper's position and that is Keith Borup, this is his first evening here. It is a pleasure to
have you with us, appointed by the City Council at their last meeting.
ITEM #4: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION20NING TO C-G AND I-L BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY:
Meridian Planning ~ Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 4
Johnson: Is there a representative for the applicant or the applicant that would like to
address the Commission at this time? O believe he has been sworn is that true Counsel?
Crookston: I believe that he has but I think it would be appropriate to re-swear him.
Doug Tamura, 499 Main Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Tamura: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission first I would like to apologize for
missing my first hearing and the last month we have been in negotiations with the Highway
District on working out all of the details on what the future of this piece of property is going
to be as it relates to the circulation. We recently bought the Madden property which is
located at the corner of North Locust Grove and Franklin. What our plan is to develop a
four phase project. Whak we have got here is kind of the big picture of what we think the
tendency is going to happen. Our goal right now is to go ahead and develop the first phase
which would consist of concrete tilt up light commercial buildings. The existing properties
around us have all developed as light industrial and in particular the industrial subdivisions
to the north of us and to the east of us has been mixtures of different types of building
types. I guess our vision is that down the road this is going to become a fairly critical
intersection for I think the doorway to the City of Meridian off the Eagle corridor. What we
would like to do is see a well planned conceptual project where all of the buildings have
more of a planned unit development concept to it. So we would like to go ahead and run
our treescape our landscaping along all of the boulevards on both existing North Locust
Grove and proposed Locust Grove. Along with the Lanark extension. One of the things
that was decided from the Highway District was what was going to happen with all of these
streets. The future plan is that Franklin Road will go to a five lane facility with a lighted
intersection at the proposed new Locust Grove intersection. The Locust Grove will be
relocated to the center or our property right along the section line with a 96 foot right of
way and again another five lane facility and then
Johnson: What is the time frame on that?
Tamura: Right now they are in the unfunded portion of the five year portion, so I guess we
are in the second year of the five year plan. So, within the next five years we can see
where both Franklin Road and the proposed location on Locust Grove Road will be put in.
I think in the ten year plan is the future bridge over the freeway of Locust Grove that will
connect it to the Locust Grove South of the freeway.
Johnson: On your diagram where is the Madden property?
Tamura: Our property runs from the existing Locust Grove, this is our East boundary line
and it runs contiguous to Builders Masonry to the west. So we own everything from there
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 5
to the railroad right of way which includes the Evans Drain. The other thing that was
decided was that Lanark would be extended both East to hit Eagle Road and then West
to reach Locust Grove for the new proposed Locust Grove. The other thing would be they
would go ahead and redesignate this to more of a local status but still require a 58 foot
right of way on the existing Locust Grove to Lanark and then it is our responsibility to work
with the existing neighbor here to the east and then vacate the northerly portion of Locust
Grove from East Lanark to the railroad tracks. I believe the way the Highway District looks
at it they have only got the ability to cross the railroad tracks at one location. So, it is
either put a turn around culdesac at this point, terminate this crossing here and then
relocate the new crossing here. So it is our thought that if we could work it out with the
neighbor that we will go ahead and request this to be vacated. So I guess what we would
like to do is once this vacation takes place then we can come back in with more detail
about how we can go ahead and design this as far as landscaping and parking and the
future use for this here. The other three phases our thought is that at some point in time
there will be some kind of commercial use that will become needed at this intersection but
for phases 2, 3 and 4 our thought is that we will come back in for detailed conditional uses
for each one of those subsequent uses. It is our goal to go ahead and develop and own
this whole project if possible. What we would like to do is start with phase 1. Our thought
is that we do phase 1 and phase 2 would be all the similar types of buildings where this
would all look Tike more or less a campus commercial project. We are, our thought is that
we can visualize that there will be more of a single user type of commercial application on
this corner, lumberyard that type of use. I think a lot of that is going to be dependent on
the timing of the roads. So we are prepared, we look at this as potentially a five to ten year
project as to how long it will take us.
Johnson: Thank you Doug, questions from the Commission to Mr. Tamura?
Oslund: Clarify what we were talking about a little bit about the phasing of the roads and
the first phase that you have shaded there when that goes in then I am assuming that
Locust Grove as it is today would have to continue to be there until the new Locust Grove
went through. That can't go through until, I guess there is another party in all of this and
that is the property to the north that would have to, ACRD has to put the road in or that
party has to come in and foot the bill. I guess I am wondering, it seems like there is a big
gap there. What the discussion we had with the Highway District was to go ahead, road
truss both right of way and future street improvements as far as curb, gutter and sidewalk,
widening of the street. Let us have the time to go ahead, go through the process of
vacation but then the vacation would be totally contingent on the relocation of Locust
Grove to the new section line. So I think, what our thought was that we go ahead and
develop these two buildings first and then use the existing Locust Grove and just leave it
as public right of way until the timing of the new location. But then we would have all of
the vacation and all of the paperwork in place. Once that happens it would trigger that
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 6
vacation. What we are hoping to do is to get our ducks out far enough ahead of us that
everyone knows what is going to happen so it can kind of follow the big picture of what we
would like to happen. So that is what our thought is, if we can work this out with the
adjoining neighbors to the north and the neighbors to the east that we can go ahead and
kind of master plan what the City would like to see happen there. So, that is what we had
the discussion with the Highway District.
Oslund: So 1 guess what I am getting at, what this is going to look like in the first phase
and possibly for the first, it could be this way from anywhere from 5 to ten years where you
are going to have that one development there that is going to have access to existing
Locust grove that these, that the future Locust Grove may not happen for, if it is unfunded
now it probably won't happen in the next five years. We have a representative from ACHD
that can clarify that. I guess I just want to have clear vision of if this were to go through
what is it going to look like for the next five to ten years. You have a nice picture of what
it ultimately could look like but I am trying to get at what it will look like.
Tamura: I think what we will do is work it out with the Highway District but my thought is
if it looks like it is going to be long term before all of this happens, we will go ahead and
push our buildings back, match our landscaping buffers around here so that this will look
like a finished product even though Locust Grove will be vacated. I guess our thought was
that knowing that this potentially will be vacated that we would like to have some other use
besides just having a big road out in front of our project. So that is why I kind of showed
it the way it is but we will go ahead and revise this landscape buffer to reflect what the rest
of the project looks like. It looks like it is going to be more than a two or three year process.
I guess the other thing that we would like to request, and I didn't quite understand the
process is that, in looking at the Evans Drain it looks like the Evans Drain is open from
Eagle Road clean on down through. We will probably come back through with a variance
request on leaving the Evans Drain open, we will go ahead and fence this on through here
but we would like to leave it open like the rest of the drain is versus covering it.
Crookston: You have a roadway in the Southwest corner there that (inaudible) proposed
roadway.
Tamura: We worked with Shari on this and even though I don't believe there is a master
plan for this implemented at this time she was requesting that the sewer easement that
runs along the kind of northeasterly portion of the drain that runs through our property
where the sewer line is at be dedicated as a pedestrian pathway. What we are showing
is that we wouldn't have a problem, if they could work out a situation with Builders Masonry
where they can continue that on down to the Evans Drain and make some kind of
pedestrian corridor through there. The last I heard that Builders Masonry was thinking
about realigning the drain along our property line here so they could use some of that
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 7
property in their northeast corner. Our thought was is if we could develop that as a
pedestrian corridor through there we wouldn't have a problem with doing that. That is what
we are showing third dotted line through there.
Crookston: Thank you and that is the Five Mile Drain?
Tamura: Yes
Johnson: Any other questions?
MacCoy: Yes, any of your discussions with ACHD since you just had one recently here
they gave you no indication that you had any access to Franklin correct? All of your
access is internal
Tamura: We have one access point approved here, we went ahead and relocated this
access point farther away from the Franklin and Locust Grove. I can't remember if we had
two approved for this upper pad or not, or if it is just one. The access points that we have
shown on there pretty much reflects the recommendations of the Highway District. The
main ones were that we only had three access points on Locust Grove which we went
ahead and revised and shown. There was a distance regulation on our access points on
Franklin. So we went ahead and relocated and eliminated some of the ones that we
originally proposed.
MacCoy: And that is due to the new signal that would go in on Locust Grove.
Tamura: Yes, and they have new design criteria as far as right in and right out and
distances from intersections. So what we tried to do with this picture was show as close
to master plan of what the Highway District's wishes were.
MacCoy: When the new locust Grove goes in and signalized do those places that you
presently have as an agreement to get onto Franklin go away?
Tamura: No, this one right here would remain, the ones that we have shown are what I
believe is what the Highway District has agreed to. But again, what we will do is on the
two phases that front Franklin Road we will come back in for a conditional use so the
Highway District will re-review those issues once we have tenants for those pads.
Oslund: When you say two that would include what looks like really three blocks of
development there is that right?
Tamura: Yes
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 8
Oslund: You have a light industrial, general commercial and what you are calling phase
4.
Tamura: What we did originally, our original proposal we had was to bisect our property
and have kind of a transition so that the northerly portion would be light industrial that was
contiguous to the light industrial to the west and north of us and then have a general
commercial that would face along the Franklin corridor. Once the Highway District
requested the Lanark extension it seemed like this was a logical breaking point as far as
where our zones were split. Our thought was we would go ahead and make this light
industrial here and light industrial here and general commercial along the frontage. I think
our thought is we could see this as some kind of, we submitted this site as one of the
proposals on the Department of Employment when they were looking for a location.
Oslund: But the conditional use that you are applying for now just applies to the shaded
area?
Tamura: Yes
Johnson: Doug if you would put that on the easel I would appreciate it so that the public
can see that and we might have some testimony. Any other questions for Mr. Tamura?
Thank you, this is a public hearing is there anyone that would like to address the
Commission on this application?
(Inaudible)
Johnson: Mr. Tamura, quickly could you just point out, I guess the main concern is streets
and I guess if there are any other questions. Be sure you are near a microphone, this all
has to be recorded.
Tamura: For everyone in the audience, this is the Madden farm, right here is where
Builders Masonry sits right there, this is where the existing Locust Grove sits right here.
Locust Grove comes down to Pine (inaudible) Builders Masonry sits right to the west of us
here. Locust Grove comes down to Pine Street and jogs over a 1 /4 mile and extends south
through here. So there is an industrial park that sits here, another industrial park that sits
here. And then along here is where the Union Pacific Railroad runs. This is where the
existing Franklin Road comes and then Locust Grove darts back over and Locust Grove
runs from here to the freeway right now. So in the future what the plan is, the Highway
District will widen Franklin Road to Five lanes from Five Mile to Meridian Road and then
they will go ahead and widen Locust Grove from Fairview to Franklin in a five lane facility
that will be a 96 foot right of way through here. The other plan is where East Lanark is
where it turns into Layne Industrial park that is right there. The plan is that East Lanark will
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 9
run from the new proposed Locust Grove all the way to Eagle Road. So there will be two
paralleling roads right here, actually three there will be Pine Street up here, East Lanark
here and Franklin Road here and then there will be a new five lane facility through here.
Then in the ten year plan there will be a bridge that will be built over the top of the freeway
that will extend Locust Grove south over the top of the freeway. So at that time, this will
be a fairly major intersection. I guess our (inaudible) at some point in time will be another
Fairview at some time as far as it traffic carrying capacity.
(Inaudible)
Tamura: What our thought is we are going to do more of a light industrial single level like
commercial complex. I guess our thought is now is that we can see that this property is
going to transition as time goes on and it is going to be more light industrial uses but as
all of this traffic and these road systems develop that these will become more of a retail
light commercial type use. We would like to do this whole complex back here where they
are all the similar type construction and buildings so they are all (inaudible) and like I was
telling the Commission we can see this as some kind of a (inaudible) whether these are
a bank or whatever is out in front. But when we do these subsequent three phases we will
come back into Planning and Zonign and get input from both the Commission and the
planning staff and neighbors as far as (inaudible).
Johnson: Anyone else that would like to address the commission? I have a question
regarding the application. Any comments from staff? Karen Gallagher, do you have
anything you would like to add, since your name was mentioned in vain?
Gallagher: (Inaudible)
Johnson: Does anybody need a clarification from ACHD on anything? Well if not we will
move on then and close the public hearing at this time. At this point we are only
addressing No. 4 although No. 5 is related, we will address that separately. Annexation
and Zonign, so we need findings of fact and conclusions of law.
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I recommend that we take the annexation and zoning in for
findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Oslund: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to have the City Attorney prepare findings of
fact and conclusions of law on item 4, annexation and Zonign request by Doug Tamura
and Arthur Berry, all those in favor? Opposed?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 10
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY:
Johnson: A lot of the testimony already presented would already be pertinent to the
conditional use permit and I assume the applicant would want that testimony incorporated
into this item. If Mr. Tamura would please address the Commission and concur with that
or add additional comments at this time I would appreciate it.
Doug Tamura, 499 Main Street, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Tamura: Mr. Chairman and members of the commission, I guess I would just like to enter
into the record the testimony that we gave on item 4. I have got a, this was included in
your packet and the only thing that is different from what we originally submitted was the
site plan configuration has changed to include the Lanark extension through it. But our
thought was to do 20,000 foot single level concrete tilt up 100 foot by 200 foot building.
So floor plans and elevations are more or less going to stay the same. What we would like
to do is a real clean concrete tilt up project. So that is what that is.
Johnson: Thank you, any questions of the applicant? Anyone from the public that would
like to address the Commission? Any comments from staff at all? If not then I will close
this public hearing. This is for a conditional use permit, what would you like to do.
Crookston: You need to adopt findings of fact and conclusions of law on the annexation
and zoning.
Johnson: Customarily we would table this item until the findings of fact and conclusions
of law were prepared and approved.
Oslund: I will make a motion that we forestall on this issue.
MacCoy: Second
Johnson: A motion and a second to table this item to what date certain, September 10, our
next scheduled meeting, 1996, alt those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #6: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 11
ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO C-G BY EAGLE PARTNERS LLC:
Johnson: Mr. Tamura, that is property of the city so you will leave that. At this time then
we will continue the public hearing and invite the applicant or his representative to come
forward and address the Commission with additional comments or new comments. Is the
applicant or his representative here?
(Inaudible)
Johnson: I am going to have to ask that there please be no conversations, it is difficult to
pick up the recording and the lady has a problem transcribing. So if we could have your
attention and silence I would appreciate it.
Billy Ray Strite, 1087 River Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Strite: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission as I said my name is Billy Ray Strite,
I am here on behalf of Eagle Partners in the request of this rezone and annexation. We
are here spec~cally for the reason of annexation on a site that certainly you are all familiar
with. This particular site and site plan you see before you is site plan No. 5 it is the third
edition of revisions predicated on some neighborhood comments as well as Ada County
Highway District and ITD comments. The site before you lies within your Urban Service
Planning area and is a designated commercial in your comprehensive plan. Further in that
plan the area surrounding this particular site is designated mixed use. That is depicted
in the adopted land use plan of 1993. We come before you with the fact that this particular
site in question has allowed for and right of way has been given to ITD along Eagle Road.
The project is presently stifled with a signal that is of great concern not only to the
neighbors but to the applicant as well that signalization lies at north boundary if you will
the northeast corner of this particular site. Because of that signal your staff and Ada
County Highway District has requested further right of way take in an effort to provide a
roadway that will service potential mixed uses designated in your adopted plan to the west.
This site has been revised again tonight before you somewhat subtly different that than
was presented to the staff in that the road alignment has been revised based upon two
things once of which was the Location of the actual street improvements signalization as
provided us by the Ada County Highway District. Secondly by a request of the
neighborhood representative and Ada County Highway District that a buffer zone be
placed along the north boundary adjacent to what may become the future road right of way
to service that area to the west as I noted. The reason for the designation in your comp
plan at least in my opinion is essentially this site is located on the intersection of a federal
highway and a state highway. Each presently carrying greater than 30,000 cars a day,
potentially designed for 40,000 cars a day. I think it is pretty obvious that because of this
the particular site in question is not really going to be adequate I guess if you will or even
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 12
deemed for residential use and or quite frankly office use. I think the comp plan
specifically refers to this for that reason that any time you have a traffic demand and a site
that is so inundated with traffic that the commercial is in fact the best use for the parcel.
We have sat down with ITD and we have also sat down with ACHD as I have mentioned.
What we would like to propose tonight and perhaps this may be better served in the
conditional use portion of this hearing, we would like to propose to this Commission that
if in fact this annexation and rezone is approved that if we along with some of the
neighbors who I am sure you will be hearing from and the adjacent neighbor to the south
are productive in our attempts to request signal relocation. We would like to ask this
Commission that the roadway that you see there to the north be eliminated, the residential
buffer remaining. And that this project could then be expanded if you will to the north by
approximately 50 feet allowing for the development as was originally intended. I think also
that I would like to suggest that unless there are questions relative to site specific those
may be better addressed in the conditional use. We strongly believe that the request
before you meets the intent of the updated comprehensive plan of 1993 and is certainly
addressed in the design concerns. We ask for your approval that the site is one within your
Urban Service Planning Area is a designated commercial site, is of adequate size, is
serviced by existing utilities and adequate street systems. It preserves the integrity of the
neighborhood in our opinion by adequate buffering. And is consistent with other land uses
in the immediate area. That is the end of my testimony relative to the rezone. If there are
any questions I would be happy to answer them.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Strite, any questions of the architect design person here from the
Commission, the applicant's representative? Anyone at this time, reserve those for later,
you will have an opportunity, we would like you to rebut or respond to other comments that
we may receive this evening as well. This is a public hearing, would anyone from the
public like to address the Commission at this time on the annexation and Zonign request?
Richard Williams, 3133 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Williams: As stated my name is Dick Williams, I have lived in Meridian for 27 years, I had
the honor of serving on the City Council for six years, President of the Council that first
adopted the comprehensive plan back in the mid to late 70's and was Chairman of the Ada
Planning Association for iwo terms also during that period of time. I appreciate your efforts
and I appreciate your time. I know that this a a volunteer job and you folks do a very
commendable job. People like Jim who have served on it for over a dozen years have my
admiration. We realize that the land, the site that is currently being discussed will develop
in some form. It is currently residential, five acre, it was zoned D1 until 1993 and then it
changed to RT, rural transition. That site borders the Greenhills Estates Subdivision
numbers 1, 2 and 3 of approximately 110 homes that will be affected by the development
of this area. I have been asked to speak tonight on behalf of these three subdivisions.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 13
There are a number of people out here in the audience tonight who I am speaking for, if
I do wrong they will poke me in the back. I would like that group to stand up and just show
the Commission who is in attendance here in support of our proposal, thank you. As I said
we do agree that this site will develop, we do not feel however that there is a buffer of 30
feet between residential that is $175,000 homes plus with a commercial zone. Mr. Strite
did specifically state that this is on the comprehensive plan as commercial, the map also
states at the very top generalized land use map. In terms of the comprehensive plan, on
page 21 of your comprehensive plan, it states specifically the comprehensive plan
arranges major land uses to preserve the integrity and amenities of residential
neighborhoods as well as the economic vitality of industrial and commercial areas. We
do not feel that this annexation meets the comprehensive plan in terms of commercial,
specifically your residential policies protect and maintain residential neighborhood property
values, improve each neighborhoods physical condition and enhance its quality of life for
residents. This is from the comprehensive plan. We also feel that within your zoning
ordinances you have done a very good job of addressing that. In terms of the zoning
requirements. We again believe that there is going to be development there, we feel that
if it is annexed, that if the proper zoning is not C-G commercial but is in fact L-O which
states the L-O district is designed to act as a buffer between other more intense, non-
residential uses and high density residential uses and thus is a transitional zone. What
we are asking is that when you look at these types of developments that between a
subdivisions such as the ones the 110 homes we are talking about that there is about a
400 foot strip from the property line back where that green is back to Magic View Drive.
We are asking that this annexation and rezone be denied that the planning and Zonign
look at this as an L-0 zone. We do know for a fact that there are people that are willing
and able to develop this in terms of offices. The other thing that we are looking at which
possibly should be addressed later on the conditional use is Meridian, how many drive in
restaurants, fast food restaurants are we going to have in this City. How many minimum
wage jobs are we going to have. With an office development, especially with professional
people we are looking at a much higher quality of employment, we know that is there, that
naturally develops from a hospital which is across the street which is really an L-0 zone
that you have provided that buffer. We are asking that you continue to provide that buffer
on the westerly portion of Eagle road through the area that is now under consideration. We
believe that there are more opportunities for employment, more opportunities for economic
vitality to the City and a better buffer for our neighborhood. I would be open to any
questions that the Commission might have.
Johnson: I appreciate your comments Mr. Williams, any questions from the Commission
for Mr. Williams at this time?
Borup: You had mentioned, do you know how many lots actually adjoin this property from
the Greenhills Subdivision?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 14
Williams: On this specific property there are four lots including our well. There is a well at
the comer that is a community well that serves 50 homes. We are concerned, that is an
additional concern that we have is the type of development that goes in under the well
head protection act of the federal well head protection act. This is a domestic water source
for 50 homes.
Oslund: What corner exactly is that located at?
Williams: It is not on the corner at this point in time.
Oslund: It would be on the corner created by this new street.
Williams: It is a State highway now, the nearest federal highway is, at least 1/3 mile to the
south which would be the interstate.
Oslund: I understand that, where is the well?
Williams: Right (inaudible) right here. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Williams, anyone else that would like to address the
Commission?
John Jackson, 3500 Commercial Court, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Jackson: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission I was asked by the
neighborhood association to kind of explain the process that we went through with our
development and the impact that we have had on the neighborhood. When we first looked
at this site
Crookston: I am sorry for interrupting, you are talking about your development, what
development is that?
Jackson: The one just south of this, all of this land was undeveloped at that time. We
chose the location we did to give as much room between our type of business and the
neighborhood. We are about 500 feet away, I think the back of our property is 1000 feet
which we placed our Interstate sign is on the very back property line to minimize the impact
that we have the neighborhood and we still had quite an impact. We still had a lot of
comments negative. Our type of business unfortunately creates a lot of traffic. It is not
during working hours it is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, Christmas, New Years,
Thanksgiving, it never ends. That is the type of business that we operate. It is offensive
to neighborhoods, we try to minimize that as much as we can by shielding and dimming
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 15
lights and this sort of thing. I would hate to think of the impact if we would be right on top
of them. Like I say we are from 500 to 1000 feet away. We try to push our development
back on our property and we still had a heck of an impact. 1 think that from a planning point
of view and I am certainly not a planner, it seems to me that Magic View south toward the
freeway for a high density type of business like that we are in high traffic, 24 hour a day
type businesses makes more sense then to snuggle up against the neighborhood. I think
the beauty of a limited office with that type of development not that a neighborhood even
looks forward to something like that but that type of business is open generally from 8 to
5, closed on weekends, closed evenings or closed holidays. So (End of Tape) generally
a lot of people are away from their homes anyway. That is afl I have to say, I just wanted
to comment on the impact. We have to have a special use permit in our business because
of the impact, because of the amount of traffic, we pay a very high impact fee because we
generate a lot of traffic. I think you need to be careful where you locate them.
Johnson: Thank you, any questions of John Jackson? Thank you for testifying, anyone
else that would like to address the Commission at this time?
Howard Foley, 2875 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Foley: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the recognition, I have a couple items that I would like
to make sure that get into the record. That is kind of the attorney's job I guess. We have
previously provided the Commission with what we termed the position paper and copies
of the signatures thereto. I would like to introduce the originals into the record if I might
a copy of the ordinance that I think is relevant and a copy of the notice of hearing that we
received and then a request that we made of the Commission on June 12, 1996.
Johnson: Certainly if you would give those to Mr. Berg please, thank you.
Foley: My comments, I will try and make them brief. The ordinance that I think has
particular meaning to the proceedings that are going on today is Meridian Ordinance 2-416
E, it speaks to the notice provisions and that is what I want to limit my remarks to. That
ordinance requires I am sure as the Commission is aware that notification be given to
adjacent property owners within 300 feet of a proposed annexation or a zone change. In
addition to that the ordinance provides that an additional area that may be impacted by the
application must also be noticed by the applicant if the Commission determines that
additional area will be impacted. As we stated in our position paper we have had a
neighborhood meeting with one of the partners of Eagle Partners. At that meeting Mr.
Devon acknowledged that more than just the 8 lots that received the initial notice would
certainly be impacted. I think the Commission can certainly take some notice to the fact
there are a number of people here who believe this type of development that abuts their
residential property is certainly going to have an impact. On June 12 we made a written
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 16
request to the Commission to make a determination that in fact other areas besides the 8
lots that received the statutory or ordinance notice be noticed under the provision of that
ordinance. To the best of our knowledge no determination has been made by the
Commission at this point. We respectfully request that you do so in your findings of fact
and if you determine that in fact the other members of Greenhills Subdivision 1, 2 and 3
fall into the affected individuals that the applicant then be directed to give the notice as
required under the statute. The final thing that I would ask the Commission to take notice
of, the last this hearing was deferred from the July 9 hearing, the applicant through its
Counsel indicated that one of the basis for that deferral was an opportunity to get together
with the homeowners to try and work out some issues and some of those sort of things.
I would simply mention that no effort has been made as far as we are aware of by the
applicant to ever meet with the homeowners and of course that causes us to question
whether that was a sincere statement or whether it is simply a matter of playing the game
where there is deferral after deferral after deferral without the appropriate notices to the
people who are being affected. So that perhaps a hearing is had without full participation
by those of us who now face a possibility of 24 hours businesses in our backyard. The
choice of either a 24 hour convenience store with a McDonalds and all of the business that
will be produced during the day and night and evening or a multi-story hotel that might
overlook our backyards. None of those of course we think are appropriate and we think
with all due respect we are entitled to the statutory notice that is required of the applicant.
Again we respectfully request that you direct the applicant to make that notification under
the ordinance. I would like to submit the copy of the last letter (inaudible) to meet with the
homeowners which hasn't occurred. I would be happy to answer any questions?
Crookston: Mr. Foley, in your documents that you have now submitted to the City or that
you submitted prior, did you indicate those property owners that you believe should get
noticed?
Foley: I did, I indicated in terms of the subdivisions that I thought were affected.
Crookston: Thank you
Johnson: Thank you Howard, I saw another hand over here.
Brian Diamond, 3134 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Diamond: Thank you Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, I have been a resident for
approximately 9 months in Greenhills Estates No. 3, I will just make these comments very
brief because my son is tired and probably needs to go home and be in bed. I believe that,
I would mainly just like to ditto what Dick said. I believe that having a 24 hour commercial
heavy commercial type use that close to our neighborhood will significantly decrease the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 17
quality of life for myself and my children. I would ask the Council to reject this Zonign and
variance. Thank you
Johnson: Thank you, anyone else?
Chuck Horel, 3043 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Horel: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners I appreciate the time you have afforded me here.
I am going to make this a little brief, so I am not going to go into this detailed.
Crookston: Excuse me, do you desire to submit that to the city?
Horel: If I can get it back or a copy of facsimile thereof yes. I have some copies of letters
here from some of the residents in our subdivision that I would like to present to you. I
don't feel that there is time to read them, but they are negative comments.
Crookston: You can present what you desire to and the City would get you a copy back.
It may not be tonight.
Horel: Basically what I have here is a well head protection plan. It is a federal program and
basically it is a voluntary program in conjunction with communities and purveyors of water
which we qualify as. The thing is as homeowners we are very concerned as to what
happens if, this is the biggest letter in the dictionary, what happens if there is some kind
of contamination from the development or the proceeding developments that take place
in this area, i.e. gas line, diesel fuel and with our well head so close to proximity of this
project I think this is a legitimate concern. The issues in here, they are pretty basic, they
are pretty clear. All they are doing is asking for community agencies and governments i.e.
Meridian, I am sure you are all part of this. To be part of this program and to help establish
this well head protection plan. Anyway I will give this to you, basically the concern is what
happens if something happens with somebody's system somewhere along the line who
ultimately is responsible for maladies that occur somewhere on down the line. I am not
going to point fingers at anybody but I think this is something that need to be addressed.
Johnson: Mr. Smith, do we already have a copy of this plan? You are not familiar with this
plan?
Smith: I am not intimately familiar with the well head protection act, I had some information
on it I don't know that I have that.
Johnson: Thank you
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 18
Horel: Basically that is all I had to say tonight.
Johnson: Any questions? Anyone else? Any comments from staff at this point, any other
comments from the applicant?
Strite: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, thank you for this opportunity of
rebuttle. I tried to write these down as quickly as I can and I will try to do them in order if
I might. I think Mr. Williams as some (inaudible) relative to the comp plan, however I
guess I would like to suggest to you that the comp plan also specifically states that mixed
use areas and the I-84 Eagle Road I-84 frontage roads is in fact determined to be in a
commercial use or a mixed use. It also goes in further to say that in a mixed use lodging
is a provided use. Lodging in our opinion by virtue of a hotel/motel may in fact provide the
buffer that the neighborhoods wants. If you look at in terms of the traffic it produces
approximately 45% less traffic than an office use either medical and or typical office user.
1 think that is a big factor. I think also the hours of operation are such that by virtue of the
fact that we have absolutely no openings on the north side of this particular facility that the
wall line of this proposal as shown in the designated plan is some 200 feet to the nearest
residence. Now there was a question asked by Commissioner Borup of how many
residents are actually affected by this particular lot. There are four, we have measured by
aerial photo the distance beiween our proposal north boundary and the southerly most
residential unit and we get approximately 200 feet which is 2/3 of the City block. Now they
make reference to a 30 foot buffer, keep in mind that if ACHD is successful in their request
to provide an additional 50 foot of right of way you have not only 30 foot of landscape
buffering but you have another 50 foot of street frontage. To that you add another 15 to 20
foot of landscaping adjacent to the building site and puts you somewhere in the distance
of almost 90 feet from our property line to our building as an adequate buffer between the
residential uses and the proposed use. As to Mr. Jackson's comments, he makes the
same comment relative to buffering, it appears to me that this particular site by virtue of
the fad that it is surrounded by streets that are carrying an excess of 20,000 cars that the
types of uses that are going to be provided here are going to be considerably higher
intense uses. In an effort to provide what we would think is would be transitional buffering
what better use in our opinion would be than a motel or a hotel. Something that is large in
mass, it is quiet, it doesn't have very many lights, it buffers the more intense uses which
we obviously took into consideration when we placed the like use to Mr. Jackson's facility
on the south. We put the Chevron facility to the north side of the street so those two uses
would be compatible and used the motel as a buffering device for the neighborhood. I think
also in response to Mr. Horel's comments I think it is certainly known by this Commission
that any tanks or anything done by Chevron is not only state and federally controlled but
it is monitored continuously. So I think I will leave that at that point. Relative to Mr. Foley's
comment in regards to notice provisions, perhaps if I might, Steven Brown may be able to
make comment to that. I will suggest in his second issue I guess, it was placed, the burden
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 19
upon us the fact that we deferred with the idea of trying to cause the neighborhood
concern that we were not forthright. Let me give you a very brief summary of what
happened here. Mr. Devon who is one of the partners did meet with the neighborhood, we
fully intended and we gave full information that we had at that particular point in time. It
was not until two days later that the Ada County Highway District based upon your staffs
recommendation at an ACHD tech review made comments that perhaps a street should
be located on the north end of this property because your comprehensive plan designates
not only this parcel but the parcel to the west and parcels further west as parcels further
west is future commercial and mixed use. Therefore Ada County Highway District along
with Ms. Stiles decided that if in fact those (inaudible) are developed in the future this
particular roadway system could not be supported by there mere local road that is
presently existing in Magic View. Hence they asked us to go back to the boards. This was
not a suggestion of this applicant but of Ada County Highway District and your staff to go
back to the boards and redesign this facility. In an effort to do that we requested a deferral
so that those things could take place. I think quite frankly we have been more than
forthright with the neighborhood and although we have not had a second homeowners
meeting. Certainly the homeowners were well aware of this by fact that we had Ada County
Highway District meeting and we had a meeting just the day before I believe with Ada
County Highway District and ITD where in fact a representative of the neighborhood was
there. So I don't think there has been any attempt by this applicant to hold back any
information that was privy to them at the time of submittal. That is all I have to say, if there
are any questions I would be happy to answer them.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Strite, any questions at all? Anyone else that would like to come
forward before we close the public hearing?
Steve Brown, 707 N. 8th Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Brown: When Mr. Foley wrote his letter I reviewed that and took a look at the notice
question myself and one of the things I did was to call the staff and try to find out whether
the Commission or anybody on the Commission looked at or addressed the request that
was made. As I understand it the request for this broader notice came in within a day or
two of when the notice had to be given. I cannot indicate exactly what took place but I will
tell you what I was told by the staff and that is the staff contacted Mr. Johnson and that
there was some a determination made that there was sufficient notice to the
neighbofioods based on the fact that there was active participation an indication that there
were a lot of people in the neighborhood that were aware of this and might participate in
the hearing. Based on that and the fact that of course by the time we could do anything the
notice period had expired. My point is we were simply told that it was addressed at least
by Mr. Johnson as Chairman of the Commission as to whether to provide additional notice.
I think that the fact that there are a lot of people here from the subdivisions indicate that
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 20
they have been notified, they have actual notice, they are here participating so it really isn't
a defective notice situation. Furthermore, the statute the part of the ordinance that Mr.
Foley referred to states that when notice is required to 200 or more property owners that
it can be given by publication and it is my understanding there was publication in advance
of this public hearing. So I think the notice issue is a red herring and it is really not the
main issue before the Commission to date. My only other comment would be in reading
the comprehensive plan, it has a lot in it and it is a good plan but one of the thrusts that
comes out over and over again is that at these freeway interchange areas there is the
more intense uses are to be approved or contemplated that those will be given permission
to locate in the more intense areas. One of the problems with locating the traffic light down
to Magic View from the north is the concern of ITD that it is so close to the interchange.
And their policies don't permit that. I think this site is close to the interchange, there is
going to be a lot of traffic here. This use with the hotel is somewhat of a buffer between
the Chevron station and McDonald's is appropriate for the site. Thank you.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Brown, Mr. Crookston?
Crookston: Is the only use proposed in the conditional use request the hotel?
Brown: The conditional use request includes the site as it is drawn here with the hotel,
and the Chevron station and McDonald's.
Johnson: Anyone else?
Marty Seager, 2951 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Seager: Commissioners, I just want to talk about one point and that is security. With an
L-O zoning is would be normally open from 8 to 5, if we saw cars there at 2 in the morning,
we could call a policeman and say this is not normal. For example we got a knock on our
door last night at 1 in the morning it was a police officer who had closed the back hatch of
our van, why did he close it, why did he stop, because that is not normal. That
immediately alerted him to something that you shouldn't see a van open at 1 in the
morning. Just like from our back windows we will be able to see this area, if something
happens at 1 in the morning we can call a police officer. If it is a motel or hotel a 24 hour
McDonalds and we see cars there it won't tell us anything. So we will have no additional
security. Without this, we have children that are sleeping, all of us have families. So we
really request because of the security factor also to have an L-O zoning. Also, I would just
like any of the Commissioners to comment if there are any residential areas right now that
are buffered by a hotel and gas station in Meridian.
Johnson: How many motels do we have in Meridian, if you want to ask questions.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 21
Seager: Correct, so this is your opportunity to set a precedent and we hope that you take
it. Thank you.
Johnson: We appreciate your comments, anyone else?
Ted Hanson, 1882 Bentley Avenue, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Hanson: 1 just had some questions regarding the plan there. For one thing west of this
development do they have a vested interest in that property. My question regarding that
is are they going to allow truck parking back there. At the present time truck parking is
parking to the south of the Jackson service center. I see them during the day time in there.
Johnson: Okay, anyone else before we get an answer to that question?
Dennis Nielson, 3019 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Nielson: I just wanted to make a comment on the gentlemen representing the case for the
annexation. He stated that there will be 45% less traffic than if it zoned L-O. I don't know
where he gets that statistic but I think it is important to think when is that traffic going to be
there. If it is L-O it is between 8 and 5, when we are up and moving around and don't have
children sleeping. If it is a hotel it is going to be late evening and early morning when we
are trying to get our sleep not what percent is cut down but what time is it going to be
there. Thank you.
Johnson: Thank you Dennis, anyone else? Mr. Strite, answer two questions if you can
with respect to truck parking and also where did you get that 45%?
Strite: In reference to Mr. Hanson's question do we have the vested interest to the parcel
to the west, the answer is absolutely no. The second question is there going to be any
truck parking here, the answer is absolutely no. You might be able to see by the plan that
there is no room for trucks. The only reason for that small parking area if you will on the
north side of this project is for fire department and emergency turn around. It will obviously
attach in the future and go west. What happens to that westerly portion I guess is
anybody's guess. I have been told but cannot confirm that particular individual is
negotiating right to sell. As to Mr. Nielson's question I have a report here by (inaudible) a
well known traffic firm which is certainly as I described you and quite frankly I have also
(inaudible) Ada County Highway District. They compared average week day peak traffic
if you will for a dental medical building, 82 trips per day, motel 40 trips per day. So I was
off by 10%, it is less than 50%. A motel (inaudible) 67 units versus a medical office
building of 20,000 square foot this is another study done, medical office building 54 cars
per day, motel use 40 cars per day. That is closer to the 40% that I mentioned to you. Ada
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 22
County Highway District has looked at this number and they have also agreed with those
traffic numbers.
Crookston: Did you desire to submit that to the Commission?
Strite: (Inaudible)
Johnson: Karen Gallagher you had some comments?
Karen Gallagher, 318 E. 37th Street, Garden City, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Gallagher: I just had a little bit of information I wanted to make sure the Commission had
prior to making a decision. The applicant has been involved in meetings with the Highway
District of which I personally have not been involved in so I cannot answer any of those
questions if you had any other clarifications you needed on those at this point. I did want
to let you know that currently this application has been tabled by the ACRD Commission
to September 11. So we will not have a determination until that point in time. That is a
night hearing for any of the property owners involved that they want to attend that meeting.
Johnson: What was the reason for the tabling is it just a matter of time or was there an
issue that you needed to get resolved?
Gallagher: They were resolving further issues on the road and at this point I know that
they are working on having some surveys done for the neighborhood to the north and
working out some of those distances and taking a closer look at those details. So our
recommendation would be that you table any of your decisions until the Highway District
has made their determination and can then forward that information onto you to aid in your
decision. Thank you.
Crookston: I have a question, I probably should know this, the road that we are talking
about and the light that is the light, the traffic light where you would turn left into St.
Luke's? Is that the road that we are talking about that would then go to the west?
Strite: That is correct.
Johnson: That is where the signalization is right now and that is where he was talking
about a possible relocation of that signal, right?
Strite: Yes sir. (Inaudible) and certainly we were there with more people that was probably
necessary. I should suggest to you that we would be opposed to tabling it only in the land
use issue certainly because the land use issue is not going to change regardless of what
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 23
the determination of what the traffic light and the eventual road. We are having and have
requested studies as have the neighbors and we have quite frankly joined forces with Mr.
Jackson's attorney in an effort to request that the signal be moved. However, it would be
the choice of the applicant and certainly I hope supported by this Commission to allow the
annexation/rezone. Because the consequence of the road proposal whether the light is
there or not there has absolutely no bearing on the land use as an issue with ingress and
egress. Our original plan without the road was almost identical with we would still be
providing a driveway in the location of the present requested roadway. So I think if
anything perhaps the annexation and rezone should move forward and if in fact the
Commission deems necessary perhaps the conditional use should be put on hold. Even
that in my opinion at this point the reason for holding this for September 3 was solely to
give the neighborhood in combination with ourselves, St. Luke's and John Jackson the
ability to go to ITD to move the signal light. It has absolutely nothing to do with land use
issue that is before you tonight.
Johnson: Thank you
Crookston: I have another question, Ms. Gallagher, has there been any input from St.
Luke's as far as moving this light that you are aware of?
Gallagher: I am sorry as I stated I haven't been involved in those meetings.
Strite: I might be able to answer that Mr. Crookston. St. Luke's was represented in our
meeting the day before yesterday. Mr. Hull was there from St. Luke's, he specifically
stated the only reason the signal light is where it is today is because ITD insisted the
signal light be there. Their original proposal was to put the signal light at the intersection
of Magic View and Eagle Road. I believe and I will qualify that, 1 believe that they are in
concert with the rest of us including the neighborhood to trying shift that signal light to the
south. So in a long way around, the answer is yes, they are involved, they have been
involved and will continue to be involved.
Oslund: How about ITD?
Strite: Commissioner Oslund, ITD was also there, we had Gary Moles, there and we had
Larry Strough, Larry Strough is head of whatever way, Gary Moles is the design engineer.
Quite frankly and I hope Mr. Williams would agree with this I kind of thought that we got
the cold shoulder. I believe that ITD at the level that we are dealing with now is solely
stuck with numbers and figures and its policy. I think politically and I think realistically if
you take a pragmatic approach which is what I believe Mr. Barber what the attorney
representing Mr. Jackson will probably there is a good opportunity to the signal can be
moved.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 24
Oslund: And who pays?
Strite: Well as it turns out right now Commissions what we have been asked to do, this
applicant pays to make the modifications to the signal as it presently stands. If in fact the
signal is deemed to be moved it is anybody's guess as to who is to pay for it. Certainly Mr.
Jackson would be a big part, certainly this applicant would be a big part and probably
more importantly St. Luke's. Perhaps their level of interest may wane some when the find
out the expense of moving it. At the present time we haven't gotten to that point, but the
idea of holding the ACRD meeting until September 3 was to give us the opportunity to try
and come back before ACRD with some kind of proposal.
Johnson: Thank you very much, I saw another question.
Sharon Christianson, 3157 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Christianson: I am the first house that abuts up against this property and 1 am definitely
opposed to the proposal. The question I had to the applicant, he said several times that
the traffic would be 45% of the motel compared to doctor's buildings, doctor's office or
whatever. He didn't say anything about McDonald's or the proposed Chevron station. It is
my belief that if he only gets 45% of the traffic that you get at a doctor's office he
(inaudible) because they won't make a go of it.
Johnson: (Inaudible) let's not get into a pep rally because I don't like that kind of thing and
I clear rooms.
Williams: I just have a couple comments, in terms of the traffic, for the motel and hotel as
opposed to a dentist office or a medical facility. Obviously those numbers conveniently
left out the fact that the Chevron and McDonald's were involved in this too so I am sure the
trips are significantly more than 54 cars a day, probably in the neighborhood of 54 cars
every 30 minutes. And the fact that you are talking about cars, vehicles 24 hours a day
not between the hours of 8 and 5 that a medical facility or an office facility would have.
The second this is that I would ask that the Commission ask your fire department about the
frequency of calls both your fire and police departments. About the frequency of calls that
they have to make at the existing motels in the City. Thank you.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Williams, another gentleman over here had his hand up.
George Kiler, 5000 SW Meadows Road, Lake Oswego, OR, was sworn by the City
Attorney.
Kiler: I have heard a lot of comments, I think a lot of emotional rather that fact based on
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August 13, 1996
Page 25
some issues, certainly the traffic report that was obtained had to do with the motel because
it was my understanding people wanted medical office instead of a motel. Those are the
facts that were obtained from the traffic trip pattern generation. If you drive between here
and the new McDonald's we recently opened at the Fred Meyer shopping center on
Fairview in about 2.5 minutes you will reach the half way point. So if you are going to be
on Franklin and you are going to be around certainly East of Locust Grove on Franklin it
is not more convenient and Franklin to go up Locust Grove even with the traffic lights and
the job on Pine etc. to get to the existing McDonalds. The point that I am trying to make is
there is a difference between diverted traffic and generated traffic. We are here in the
convenience business because the traffic exists on the road number one and number 2
our peak ours are counter cyclical to the a.m. and p.m. peak hours that are on that road
right now. Our peak hours are clearly at lunch time and not early morning and not in the
evening rush hour traffic. So therein lies some difference on the McDonald's situation. The
same is true on the Interstate because we have a McDonald's at the Meridian interchange
that is about a mile 1 guess from here to Eagle two miles, the next interchange we have a
McDonald's there established and as a result you have interstate traffic that has just left
Boise and has a result has already gotten gas and fuel etc. and possibly and heading out
of town and the ones heading into Boise will see certainly McDonald and signage along
the interstate in Nampa, Caldwell but certainly the Meridian one on 1st. So I just wanted
to address that issue of peak traffic and see if I can clarify some of those things. Unless
you have specific questions for me that is basically what I wanted to talk about. I kind of
thought some of the other things were shots that I don't even want to (inaudible).
Johnson: I am sure that you have done studies or are familiar with studies that would relate
to the McDonalds maybe more to the Chevron, you said you did your study based on a
hotel versus dental or professional offices is that correct?
Kiler: Correct
Johnson: Okay, what in your experience would be the relationship between the motel and
the Chevron C Store?
Kiler: I don't have an exact number.
Johnson: I don't want an exact, I would kind of like a ball park figure.
Kiler: I don't have a number that is going to be fact based.
Johnson: I just thought maybe you would have done a study.
Kiler: I just know that a McDonald's and a Chevron are very compatible and it isn't like
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 26
having separate facilities that are unrelated and not tied together. So as a result there is
some cross shopping so to speak going on. When somebody buys fuel they are buying
food and vice versa. I am sure that is why Mr. Jackson has put fast food in some of the
Jackson's as well. That is a trend the industry is going on.
Johnson: I believe he has Taco Bell there.
Kiler: So I am just saying that there is some cross shopping habits going on. That further
would reduce potential traffic as far as the buffers I think everybody has already addressed
all of that.
Johnson: Give me a short list on diverted traffic versus generated traffic.
Kiler: Diverted traffic is what is going down the street today it is that 30,000 cars that is
on the Eagle or 28,000 or what have you. It is the cars that are being driven down I-84
corridor. Generated traffic is car or a vehicle that leaves home let's say drives to the
McDonald's and goes back home. It is not more or less a right in and right out situation
or something on the path going from somewhere to somewhere. If a car leaves I-84 and
goes north on Eagle Road and stops at McDonald's and Chevron and continues going
north we just diverted him to our property and not generated because he didn't go back to
the highway or that sort of thing.
Johnson: Kind of like specific destination or something.
Kiler: Right, people don't make plans to go to McDonalds, it is typically a convenience, an
impulse. About 70% of our business is what we define as impulse business which is the
cars going down the street.
Johnson: You obviously don't have any young children.
Kiler: There is no playland here by the way. If you want a playland you can go to Franklin.
So there are some differences in the McDonald's that we are building these days geared
to what we see this market being.
Johnson: I appreciate your input, did you have an additional comment Mr. Hanson?
Hanson: In the Valley News newspaper a couple of weeks ago they had an aerial view of
the area we are talking about clear over to South Locust Grove. On the north edge of this
property that they want to develop where the light is they propose, this is Ada County
Planning Commission has already approved a proposal to go from Eagle Road to South
Locust Grove. And there is a developer back west of this property quite a ways 1 would say
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 27
1/2 mile without re-resurrecting a copy of that paper and I am guessing it was Sundance
Corporation is already established some lots back in there. They don't call them, it is much
larger an acre or something kind of lots.
Johnson: Anyone else?
Rod Truax, 3091 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Truax: I heard several different things concerning the traffic and I would submit that most
of those figures are highly suspect. I would reference the report from the State dated 6-14-
94 stated the traffic count at that time was 24,233 trips per day. That was prior to St.
Luke's opening up, that was prior to completion of some adjacent area subdivisions. And
I would submit that is going to increase significantly as things like Sweetwater Junction
open up, it is going to incur more traffic as improvements are made to the Highway 55 right
of way. That those also will increase the traffic load on that area. I would request that the
Council reject this rezoning to C-G, also giving the property owners, I am one of the
property owners adjacent to the this proposed development. I can't help to think that is
going to have a rather significant impact on our property value to have roughly a 30 foot
wall in our backyard. Back walls don't give much aesthetic value to property, hence it
would be more of a detriment to our property value and lifestyle in general. I think the
other thing to consider again reference back to some of the traffic numbers this is an 80
unit motel or hotel that is being proposed and I think a lot of the traffic and surveys that
have been proposed have been based on the typical facility. I would submit again with the
Sweetwater Junction that this one is going to be a very high use above the normal
occupancy rate as a result of that within the area. So I would request on some of those
counts plus what Mr. Williams has previously stated that this be denied.
Johnson: Anyone else that would like to come forward at this time?
Janet Buttertield, 2833 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Butterfield: I just have a question, I wondered if Mr. Jackson, I am sure he would have an
idea how much traffic his facility has generated, would that give us a closer indication of
what we might expect as an increase. I know he stepped out the back but I think he is still
here.
Johnson: Does anyone else have anything? Any comments from staff? Is Mr. Jackson
available? Could you come forvvard and submit your financial statement please? The
question that was asked by (End of Tape)
Jackson: (Inaudible) our customer count is currently running between 2500 and 2800
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August 13, 1996
Page 28
customers per day. I might point out that the fuel system on this design is providing for
50% more capacity than we do. So I think my estimation of trips per day here with a
McDonalds and a hotel would probably be in the are of 5000 trips per day.
Johnson: I appreciate your so called expert guess. Anyone else? Seeing no one then
I will close the public hearing at this time on the annexation and zoning only. We have
been given some suggestions on what to do what would you people like to do?
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I recommend that take the annexation and zoning segment and
put it in findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Oslund: I would second that and ask for discussion.
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to address annexation and zoning with findings
of fact being prepared by the City Attorney, discussion?
Oslund: There was a question asked of the applicant some time ago about exactly what
part of this development is the conditional use. When you look at the zoning ordinance you
will find that the only portion of this application that would have to be a conditional use
would be the drive up window, everything else would be a permitted use in a C-G zoning.
That gives me great concern because that means, I think that we are giving up some of our
ability to, well if we were to consider approving this at all we would be giving up some of
our ability to place conditions on this application. I think it is obvious that we have enough
concern here that all elements of this application need some attention if it is approved. So
I guess my only comment would be I say we go ahead and prepare the findings of fact but
I can tell you right now I agree with some of the comment that has been taken today that
this should be an L-O. I would like that reflected in the findings.
Crookston: This is a mixed planned use area, and a conditional use permit required for any
use in that area.
Oslund: In the mixed use.
Crookston: Yes
Oslund: So we do have that ability to place conditions on all elements of this application?
Crookston: Yes
Johnson: Any further discussion? We have a motion and a second, all those in favor?
Opposed?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 29
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
TEN MINUTE BREAK
ITEM #7: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JULY 9, 1996: REQUEST FOR A
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A CHEVRON C-STORE, MCDONALD'S W/DRIVE
THRU, AND AN 80 ROOM HOTEL BY EAGLE PARTNERS:
Johnson: At this time I will continue this public hearing and ask the applicant to address
the Commission for additional comments if any.
Crookston: Are you going to request the previous testimony from the past application be
submitted for this application.
Johnson: You do say you have a request?
Crookston: No I don't.
Johnson: We are going to get one in a minute.
Billy Ray Strite, 1087 River Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Strite: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, without belaboring it I think
probably and maybe (inaudible) a lot of the concerns and comments have already been
made. However I would like further, with what Mr. Crookston said in response to Mr.
Oslund's comments we were told that because this was in a mixed use area and that there
is greater than one use that the entire parcel would be subject to conditional use which we
certainly agreed with doing and submitted. Relative to the building itself, I might be able
to help you out here with some numbers as well. I think one of the things that I should
suggest to you is there are 76 rooms, I am not sure where the 80 came from it may have
been in the report by Ada County Highway District, and it may have inadvertently remained
that way because if you recall in my earlier testimony our facility was considerably larger
until such time as we were asked to put in a public road on the north side. We cut the size
of the motel down as I just suggested. We also limited the number of seats or reduced the
number of seats in the Chevron McDonald's facility in an effort to park cars not only
according to the City ordinance we are well in above the parking requirements of the City
ordinance but we are trying in an effort to make numbers that are required of us by the
motel user one and by McDonald's Chevron two. Quite frankly we believe that the facilities
adequately parked, 1 will make a comment here as I have with ail of the other Chevron's
that we have done here in the valley most of the cities in the valley accept the pump
islands NPD's as we refer to them as parking islands as well. Obviously if one is in there
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 30
buying gas and purchasing food he walks in and lives his car in that location. So not only
are we over parked relative to total number of seats in the dining facility, but we are over
parked in the C Store. I would like also to suggest that this particular proposal has 27,000
square foot of landscape which is considerably greater than that required by the
ordinance. Again that is not withstanding the 30 feet that we brought to the table tonight.
That was the figure that we had prior to the 30 foot right of way that was imposed upon us
by Ada County Highway District by the mere fact that again without being repetitive to align
with the St. Luke's driveway. Our particular radii of north boundary of the signalization
intersection and I believe it is really like 32 and it may even be 37 feet south of our north
boundary. That depicts the 60 foot right of way of the road being proposed. The road being
proposed if in fact it becomes a reality will be fully signalized with left turn bays, we at this
particular time as the applicant's are required to provide curb, gutter and sidewalk, two
lanes going north, excuse me going west to westerly boundary of our parcel. Ada County
Highway District at the time parcel number 2 is developed will complete the roadway
section to the north including curb, gutter and sidewalk and the north bound lane of the
street in question. That does not preclude the applicant and we have suggested to Ada
County Highway District that under phase 1 and that is what we would like to suggest to
you tonight, phase one would be the completion of the McDonald's C Store would include
at this time a 30 foot landscape buffer on the north boundary regardless to what happens
to what we are going to refer to as phase 2, the motel. It is certainly would be our hopes
and our desires tonight that if you find it fit to approve both parcels and approve the
conditional use as it is shown there with the proviso if in fact the roadway becomes null
and void by virtue of us assisting the neighbors and Mr. Jackson moving the signal that
this plan could change. The change will be minimal and I don't expect that we will be going
back and requesting additional units. Quite frankly what I think we would prefer doing is
adding a little more buffering to the north side but provide for ourselves a little more
buffering from the south side between our C store and our motel. One of the gentlemen
asked me about the problems with having a 3 story motel looking down on his parcel. Let
me first suggest to you that under the present zoning he could have that today, I could go
place that there, I could build a house that way, probably not likely but I could do that. So
it is not as though it can't be done. Under the present zoning you could go build a house
that way. Quite frankly, not only that could you build a house there you could turn all your
windows to the north and look over everybody's back yard. That is not the purpose here
that is not what we are intending to do. We are intending, we have solely designed this
motel which if I might approach the podium, this is an artist's rendition of the building in
question and you will note that on the right hand side of your picture this is the north side
of the building, there are no openings. The only opening that are in this building face either
east or west. There are no openings that are facing north or south if you will overlooking
any of the residences and or the C store. Again without being redundant, the right hand
side of this artist's rendering is the north boundary if you will or south boundary of the
road, it is the north side of the building. You will see that there are no openings, no
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 31
windows on that north side which would in fact over look the neighborhood. That all of the
windows in this facility do in fact face either east or west. Secondly I think in an effort to
mitigate some of the concerns not only is there considerable, well mature landscaping in
the back side of the neighbors yards, and I have to say very well done, I think the support
of having another additional 30 feet with a landscape buffer certainly provides more than
adequate buffer in a sound deadening system that is probably far superior to what they
have today. I might add also that the request of Ada County Highway District there was
comment made by I believe it was Mr. David Schplitz who suggested if in fact Ada County
Highway District was to have to take over this 30 feet on the north side of that roadway
system that their proposal would be to build an 8 foot high block wall, sound wall. Quite
frankly and I am not going to speak for the neighbors but certainly if I were in their position
I would prefer much rather prefer a 30 landscape buffer as opposed to an 8 foot high
sound wall. We have not been back before Ada County Highway District with this final
proposal and I don't expect to do so as we have already discussed with you until
September 3. I would like to make that comment. I think unless I have overlooked
something most all of the issues have been addressed in the prior hearing and perhaps
it would be appropriate to open it up for questions.
Johnson: Billy Ray, not to put words in your mouth or try to lead you a little bit here, did
you want that prior testimony incorporated into this hearing. It would be of use to us is you
would request that.
Strite: Mr. Chairman, I do so please.
Johnson: Thank you, any questions of Mr. Strite?
MacCoy: I do, 1 realize this is an architectural rendering and they always do a nice job
when they show it off that way. The trees you show here for your both your good visual
as well as your buffering you plan to put in trees like that, it gets quite expensive.
Strite: I believe your staff has suggested to us and it certainly has on other projects that
any trees that go in along that buffer I believe have to be 3 inch caliper which is basically
a specimen tree which is considerably larger than what you are going to find in most
developments and that is a requirement of your staff.
MacCoy: That also, three inches is also much smaller than what you see in your rendering.
Strite: Well quite frankly not a great deal, I am not a landscape architect and would be the
last to admit that but I think a 3 inch caliper tree probably runs in the neighborhood of 15
to 18 feet high and I don't think those are probably that much higher than that. I will have
to agree with you our rendering does get a little carried away. We would be prepared to
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August 13, 1996
Page 32
provide, now keep in mind, this row of trees is on the south side, this is not even the north
side. We would be prepared to provide a species as required or requested by staff or this
commission and maybe even a little quicker growing for instance. I am certain that there
are species that may grow a lot faster if that is the wishes of the Commission.
Johnson: Anyone else from the Commission have a question?
Oslund: You spoke earlier in the first application about the truck parking and I have noticed
that along Eagle Road currently whether it is allowed or not trucks are currently parking
on Eagle Road to get access to the Texaco that is out there now. I would assume that is
going to continue to be a problem with your development. It is not really a question I don't
expect you to answer it but that is my belief. I think, when I look at the plan, there is kind
of a paradox when I look at this plan because you have a signal located essentially that
would serve the hotel and then we have an uncontrolled intersection or just a stop
intersection further to the south there. That is going to serve the most intense portion of
the development. I am concerned about how this is all really going to work. Is that signal
even going to be useful. People would use Magic View Drive and what we end up with is
that unsignalized intersection serving two highly intensive uses. I think the hotel at 3
stories is, it is a little excessive. I understand your taking issue with it and saying the motel
will be an effective buffer but I would think the fact that it is not purely a buffer, not
everybody believes that the hotel is an aesthetic pleasing buffer. In fact it constitutes an
impact, so if you would like to address any of those points you can at this point. I have
some others, I might as well go through those. I guess my biggest concern, I was
concerned about this before the two times this was cancelled. I guess the one thing, I
have only been in Meridian for three years but I look around and a I have been on the
Commission for 6 months and I have noticed in the last couple of months what we are
getting inundated with is auto related applications. Whether it be a used car lot, a gas
station, drive ups, fast food, RV repair, auto repair, auto accessories. I could go on, that
is what has come in the door the last 3 or 4 months. When I look at the Comp Plan there
are a couple of things that I see in the comp plan that I would like to direct your attention
to. First goal 3 of the comp plan is that we encourage the kind of economic growth and
development which supplies (inaudible) self sufficiency and reduces the present reliance
of Boise. I wonder how this development does that. There is also another statement in
the comp plan under land use goals statement, page 22, item 1, all land use development
of the Meridian area will be considered an asset to the community and not to detract from
our quality of life. I wonder how this development achieves that. On page 223, 1250,
encourage a balance, I underlined the word balance of land uses to ensure that Meridian
remains a desirable, stable, self sufficient community. Further on that same page 1.10U,
help to design of an attractive road way entryway areas into Meridian which clearly and I
underline the word identify the community. So I look at this development and we could talk
about the specifics but I just can't get over the philosophical issue. That is I look around
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 33
Meridian and I say do we need a third McDonald's, do we need another Chevron. What
do we want to portray our community as. I don't necessarily take issue with the hotel I
think there are things that can be done to it to make it acceptable. What I really take issue
with is another chevron, another McDonald's and another car wash and when we already
have plenty of that.
Strite: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Oslund, if I might, I guess will try to start with one, f
think those are pretty salient points. First of all the signal it was never intended by this
applicant to use that signal for anything more than an access to support this facility. The
signal was placed there long before anybody had looked at this piece of ground. Quite
frankly had I been involved early on I would have been concerned just as are the
neighbors and Mr. Jackson and certainly St. Luke's, why in the world they did not move
this down to Magic View which made a lot more sense. However, that is totally out of our
control. It is not going to make any difference what goes on with this parcel of ground
whether you choose not to use your comp plan and go to a medical office complex that
generates considerably higher traffic than the motel certainly not more than the other use,
but whatever goes on that parcel is going to be restricted by either Magic View or this
signal light.
Oslund: I should state that I am not opposed to the signal, I am not opposed the signal at
its current location.
Strite: Let me continue though, you made the observation that the signal, I believe this was
your observation, was done solely for the use of this motel and for this McDonald's at least
that is what I construed it to be. That is not the case, the only reason that this roadway is
being proposed is your comprehensive plan calls for more intense uses. Not only on this
parcel but on the parcel west and on parcels west of that. You have mixed use
designations and I think it goes without saying that when you can put a State highway
together with a Federal highway carrying greater, I think there was a comment made, there
was 23,000 at the last time, well it is greater than that now. They are figuring an excess
of 40,000 on both streets. What type of particular uses can function on that kind of an
intersection. I can tell you right now we are doing probably 5 medical office buildings today
and not one of them would even envision being in a place like this. It is totally
inconceivable. That aside, that signal light if in fact that is where you would like to see it
is not solely for the purpose of this development. It was never intended to be, we never
intended using it. We had no discussions quite frankly with Ada County Highway District
until we had already submitted our first plan which was to be before you on the last
hearing.
Oslund: I guess that is exactly my point, the way you have laid out this development your
intended use as a hotel between it and that intersection. Who is going to use it because
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 34
they are going to have to drive past the hotel and deal with internal circulation which just
isn't going to function. What people are going to do is use Magic View Drive and that is the
same, you have already got an intersection there that is trying to access a State highway.
I guess what I am saying is that I don't want to see another roadway choked up with local
access problems off of that roadway. That is why that signal is there, I think that signal
should be used. I am not as concerned about its location as the neighbors are. I think there
are things that can be done to mitigate the impact of that roadway.
Strite: I don't share your thoughts with the internal circulation quite frankly 1 think it works
well. I do however suggest to you that the more intense uses were placed on the south
specifically to get them further away from the residential uses. Make them adjacent to
similar uses. Also the idea, it was our point at the time to use Magic View as a major
ingress egress to the more intense user. Quite frankly the signalization again has nothing
to do with this particular development as for future developments. If in fact and again I
guess I don't share your feelings relative to signal location. It would seem more
appropriate to me and I think the neighbors would be supportive of this if that signal were
shifted south. They are having a difficult time getting into Autumn Way now because the
stack lane on northbound traffic is virtually nil. It interferes with the south bound left turn
movements into St. Luke's. Mr. Williams tested to Ada County Highway District that there
is an accident waiting to happen. I think he is absolutely correct and I think Mr. Jackson,
I am not sure why they did ask for this at the very beginning, but I do know that Mr. Hull
at St. Luke's requested to have that signal at Magic View. We are going to support that.
Oslund: You can support it but the point is ITD has made the determination that they don't
want a signal any closer to their ramps and that interchange has to function at a much
higher level than anything down here. That is a minor issue, let's move on to the other
issues.
Strite: I liked your comment relative to being able to do something with the motel that may
make it more attractive as a buffer. Quite frankly I consider it more as a transition and the
fact that it is a low intense use, considering what your own zone will allow if in fact you
choose to use your comp plan as the guide and this becomes a commercial parcel. What
else what type of intense use that would locate on a street frontage with 30,000 cars a day
would be more appropriate in your opinion against the residential zone.
Oslund: Office
Strite: Well if in fact you could find somebody to office there that would be a consideration.
Quite frankly we think it is highly
Oslund: (Inaudible)
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 35
Strite: I agree and I appreciate that. Relative to your auto related uses, what are we going
to do at the intersection of I-84 and Highway 55, we have (inaudible)
Oslund: (Inaudible) I know some of the neighbors do
Strite: But your issue is auto related uses and I agree with you. However why don't we
concentrate the auto related uses as your comp plan has already contemplated at
intersections where all of these cars are existing now. We talked about 5,000 cars a day
in this facility and according to Ada County Highway District and APA like 50% or 48% of
those are passer bys. Well the passer bys are on the freeway, they are going to get off and
come down Eagle Road they are going to be heading for Eagle.
Oslund: Let's back up, my primary concern is that I am tired of approving developments
that don't do anything for this community. I live in this community and when 1 want to take
my family out to dinner most times I have to drive all the way into Boise to do that. I am
looking and we have a community here of about 23,000 now and we are going to have an
application tonight a little later for Louie's to come in and I applaud that. What 1 am saying
is that I don't really need another McDonald's and I don't need another Chevron and I don't
take issue with the hotel but I take issue at 3 stories. That is my point.
Strite: I think it is a philosophical argument that you and I could probably sit and discuss
for a lengthy time. But from the pragmatic approach and from the fact that the
comprehensive plan and the site itself based upon the traffic numbers I think it would be
highly improbable to have any other use. Relative to your goal number 3, it would appear
to me that in relationship to employment, first of all the motel is certainly going to increase
the employment base, so also is the McDonald's Chevron. I think that is certainly a
worthy goal. It creates a tax base, again I don't want to get philosophical because we could
go on forever. But you made references to those things and that is certainly done by this
development. The balance of land use and again your comment another one of these and
I assume you meant another McDonald's and another Chevron. Well again I just have to
emphasize that when you are at a node of a highway and a highway commercial uses of
this nature are going to be the norm. I think that your plan obviously in 1993 envisioned
that. It may not have envisioned that this particular highway was going to increase 4 fold
over what it was in 1993.
Oslund: I don't believe the comprehensive plan envisioned a McDonald's and a drive thru
and a car wash at this intersection. What the comprehensive plan says, (Inaudible) the
comprehensive plan is fairly general on that point. I would just add on your point of
employment, the comprehensive plan does not say that we are out there seeking as many
minimum wage jobs as we can get. I think it is important to have those but we have our
fair share, again that is a philosophical difference but I just wanted to clarify that.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 36
Strite: Mr. Chairman I think that we probably belabored that enough.
Johnson: So do I, I am not even too sure this is the forum for that type of discussion. A lot
of us have problems finding a place to eat that is really not a problem tomorrow.
Strite: I am sorry if I was lengthy in that, I apologize.
Johnson: Developments are market driven and that is basically what you are talking about
when you are talking high intensity auto use (inaudible). Would anyone like to address
the Commission on this issue?
Chuck Horel, 3043 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Horel: I guess a question here to Mr. Strite, if 1 could have an explanation about the
rendering here. If this roadway is accurate from a standpoint of the ACHD meeting and the
comprehensive plan of Meridian in showing where these roads are going to go in the
future. We don't have situation in Meridian as it stands of double fronting lots with roads,
i.e. here. The long range plan is to take that entrance off of Eagle Road at the north end
of this project where the road is currently drawn and then swinging it over to Magic View.
I really don't see any, where is this leading and that I guess is my question to Mr. Strite,
where, how is this addressed. When we were down at ACHD we had talked about a 15
degree divergence from that angle of entrance off of Eagle Road and it would angle to the
southwest. I don't see that in this drawing. The width of the road doesn't match up to the
road across the way at St. Luke's entrance. We had asked for a dimensional equivalent.
We are getting 60 feet roughly well from curb to curb on the other side of the road is 82
feet. I don't see that in this drawing. I guess those are just some of my points 1 wanted
clarified or if I can have those clarified I would appreciate it.
Johnson: Thank you, anyone else?
Richard Williams, 3133 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Williams: First of all 1 appreciate very much Mr. Oslund's comments and I agree 99% with
them. The fact that this commercial development as it is proposed is a 3 story hotel literally
in your backyard and I doubt that anybody on this Commission would live in that
environment. Or live with a McDonald's frying hamburgers all night while you are trying
to sit in your back yard with a light shining in your bedroom window from the cars at 2 in
the morning or the fire alarms going off at the hotel which they do and you can ask you fire
department about that, on a very frequent basis. We are again really emphasize the fact
that there has got to be a transition between commercial and the residential. This
development as it is being proposed and our opinion and I think the opinion I (inaudible)
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 37
presents severe degradation to the neighborhood in terms of property values and
aesthetics. I guess what we do then is we put a bulletin or a poster up there (inaudible)
and here are the numbers. Office development is a better transition, not a 30 foot buffer
strip with a few trees in it, that is not a buffer zone. There has got to be a buffer zone and
a transition is really a number of feet, it provides some definition. We really again ask your
consideration that definition (inaudible).
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Williams, Mr. Foley?
Howard Foley, 3875 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Foley: There have been some comments regarding traffic flow and the amount of use that
Chevron station and convenience station is going to draw as compared to the motel. I just
I want the Commission to recognize what appears obvious to me is that as the traffic signal
is now situated and as ACRD proposes, if the road is extended along the north boundary
of the subject and our homeowners south boundary all traffic north bound is coming off of
the Interstate, north bound on Eagle Road is going to go to the traffic light to make that
tum. Whether they are going to the Chevron or whether they are going to the Jacksons.
They are not going to try and cut across a turn lane and south bound traffic to get into
Magic View. If you are a traveller out on a highway you are going to come off the freeway,
if you are looking for gas or whatever the case is and you are going to go to the traffic light
to get in the left turn lane and then turn into the backside of our property. So it is
meaningless to say the motel is only going to have X number of cars 40 or whatever of
traffic because every car that is north bound off of that freeway going up Eagle Road is
going to that traffic light to go past the motel to go into the Chevron station and get a hotel
or whatever and go back out the same way. We are going to have traffic all night long.
Our point is that there is no transition, if you approve this you can put buffers and do
whatever you want we are going to have extremely high use, 24 hours a day, traffic in and
off of that signal. There is just no question about it. South bound traffic probably a different
story. But the vast majority of your traffic has got to come off that is going to use those
types of facilities I assume are going to be interstate travellers. The representative from
McDonald's just said that. It is not a designation place they are going to go these are
travellers and we are just going to pick up a tremendous amount of traffic coming to that
signal, shining lights into the back of people's yards, going in and going back out. It is
going to go on all night long and that is inappropriate. There isn't anything close to
transitional, there isn't anything close to a perpetuating the lifestyle of any kind of a
residence when you do that. There isn't anything close to striking any kind of a balance
between residences and commercial, how can there be anything higher use than 24 hours
a day, how could that be. There aren't more hours there are only 24 and that is what you
are being asked to approve and that is totally inappropriate. There is no way, you are not
launching off of the huge philosophical arguments, the comprehensive plan directs all of
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August 13, 1996
Page 38
us to take some sort of a balance and that is not a balance in my opinion. I guess the last
thing I wanted to say is it seems to me until we make some decisions on annexation and
if there is an annexation and number 2 if there is an annexation under what kind of
designation that property comes into that considerations of conditional use and what
conditions and those sorts of things seems to me to be premature. I submit that perhaps
any of this discussion ought to be tabled until those other decisions are made.
Johnson: Thank you
Dennis Edson, 376 Ravenswood Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Edson: I would like to make some comments with respect to the light office the other
gentleman had stated that with the amount of traffic that is on Eagle Road that he didn't
see that anybody would build light office in that area. I just take a look at, we have a major
medical facility there with St. Luke's and looking at other cities and this City and Boise and
whenever there is a major medical facility like that you tend to see the growth of all kinds
of light office support facilities and we have doctor's offices and lab facilities and so forth.
I know that if I was over at St. Luke's and they wanted to send me to a specialist I would
much prefer to go across the road then to drive someplace else in town even if that is a
high traffic area. Also, with regard to the road going in and the signal there Mr. Oslund
was talking about he was concerned, no light being at Magic View and the traffic going in
there. If that road goes in and curves around down to Magic View as the Highway
Commission wants it to do they have proposed shutting off Magic View Drive to left turns
from Eagle Road and not allowing traffic to come out of Magic View and make a left turn
on Eagle Road. In which case as the lawyer that was just here claimed all traffic that has
to get into the gas station all traffic that has to get into Jackson's would indeed have to go
into that signal and run in past our property. I don't even know what that would do to
Jacksons, that means that all people have to go in there (inaudible) if this facility goes in
it means the traffic once that road was finished would have to go around and pass the
Chevron first. I don't know what it would do to Jackson's so I think that needs to be
considered too.
Johnson: You are only talking north bound traffic. I saw another hand here.
Kent Brown, 361 Springwood Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Brown: Some of the things that I guess come to my mind that I am curious about is the
signage that is going to go on the buildings. I don't know about Jackson's but you can
probably see it from City Hall here, you can see it from everywhere else in the valley. You
can go out to Kentucky Ridge and you can see that sign. What kind of sign is Chevron
going to put up to compete with Jackson's,? What kind of sign is the hotel going to put up
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 39
to compete with Jackson's? Where is that going to be located? The sign that, the
rendition shows a little tiny sign, is that what they are going to put. Is it going to be lighted?
Are they going to get hotel customers off of the freeway with that kind of sign or where are
they going to put that sign, I guess I have a question about it. The Highway District has
opposed this four lane road to go into the north side of this development to supply access
to the entire property, I don't know if it is 30 acres or whatever it is. I think that this
application is the time to plan for what is going to go in there in the future for the remaining
portions of that. If the roadway is constructed along the lines of like park center, you have
a high commercial use but you have buffering with berms and so forth on either side. That
is going to promote that kind of use instead of more hotels and gas stations and people
using it off of the freeway. So I would make that recommendation that everything to make
this similar to the St. Luke's road. If you look at the rendition you see the St. Luke's side
they have islands in the center of the road and it creates slower traffic, I believe the
Highway District can tell you if you have a series of islands in the center of the road that
the traffic slows down. That is going to reduce the noise and impact to our development
in the existing subdivision. I think the gentleman that just spoke hit it on the head when a
hospital goes in you are going to have all kinds of offices around them. St. Luke's currently
in Boise has been buying up existing neighborhoods and existing homes and turning them
over and making office complexes, parking complexes. I was in the meetings with the
Highway District when the hospital went in. They are not sure that their 40 acre site is
large enough for them, 47 acres. They purchased that other 7 acres recently so that they
have an access down to Franklin. But they weren't sure that they were large enough, they
were surprised at how fast they filled up. I think that is what is going to happen around
there that you are going to have a lot people labs, and doctors offices that are going to
want to be near the hospital when it finally meets its final capacity. Thank you
Johnson: Thank you.
Rod Truax, 3091 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Truax: In the hearing that we had with the County one of the things that was brought up
at the County was that the Idaho Transportation Department is pretty adamant about not
allowing the light down here because of the close proximity of the freeway on ramps and
off ramps. What I would submit that makes this very undesirable, as was previously
stated, they are considering blocking this or berming this so that the northbound traffic
cannot make left hand turns
Johnson: Who is they?
Truax: ITD, into Magic View because of the safety hazard created by the south bound
traffic. The current service station located in this lot over here Jackson's has tanker
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 40
trailers that do currently pull into this median and then turn into here. If that is bermed up
and that left hand turn access is not allowed, I have a hard time visualizing that same
tanker trailer coming down to the light and making a U tum and coming back there. Which
means they are going to have to pursue some other route and long term development
would have this angling back over and connecting with Magic View which would ultimately
be the delivery route for petrol into that area. Again granted that the tanks and federal
regulations around the tanks and dispensing of the fuel are more than adequate, however
the transportation of that, DOT regulations are not as robust as they are for the
underground containment of the fuel. Hence with our well head located here with that kind
of volume of traffic, not only one service station but two service stations being serviced off
of this road. The opportunity for car wreck, discharge of any fuel is increased by it sounds
like at least 2/3 more because it is going to be double the capacity of what the Texaco
station currently is. Which creates even more concern for the residents in that area. Also
we talked to the Ada County Highway and Planning, one of the proposals was that number
one the roadway be made to match up with that of St. Luke's also that it be angled now as
this is showing back towards (End of Tape) According to the Planning and Zoning layout
that area is going to be developed even more. So that means all the traffic access to that
long term wise is going to gain access through this new road. With this drawn it almost
indicates without being able to see any other rendition of what is playing around that area
it leaves you with the idea as Mr. Williams pointed out earlier that road is going to shoot
right on down the backside of all of those properties. That is part of the planning part of
it as we see opportunity for it at this time. If it is not planned that is what will proceed.
Johnson: Thank you, is there anyone else that would like to come forward? Is there
anything from staff prior to the applicant? Go ahead Billy Ray.
Strite: Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, I will try to make this very brief and
hopefully hit only the salient issues. First of all relative to the roadway and the closing off
of Jackson Food Stores and avoiding any left turns onto Eagle Road Mr. Williams was a
party to the meeting we had where ITD said there is no way they were going to put an
island out there. In fact if they do not approve and their design standards would not allow
an island which would block left turn lane movements out of Magic View. Quite Frankly I
think Mr. Jackson's attorney Phil Barber was a big part of that. He made certain at that
meeting that is what was discussed and his minutes were quite clear. He said if that were
in fact to happen as I think was suggested by 2 or 3 of these comments earlier that would
be an unfair competition because it would run everybody right to the middle of the Chevron
on their way to Mr. Jackson's. He was assured at that meeting that would not be the case.
Again we are in support as Jackson's and also the neighbors of moving the light but I think
as Commissioner Oslund said that is a not an issue that is going to be solved here tonight.
Relative to this roadway I think it was also mentioned where was it going to go, what is it
going to do, and why here. First of all this is a configuration that was agreed to with Ada
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August 13, 1996
Page 41
County Highway District. We sat down, this is actually the third version that we sat down
with them and had them layout the access as they see it happening. They are suggesting
that if in fact none of this development on this site goes this road will go because their
convinced so also I believe is your staff that the 30 to 40 acres on the west end of this will
in the future as already designated in the comp plan become mixed use. Therefore this
roadway in their opinion whether it is signalized here or at Magic View it is going to happen
whether this development goes here or not. The configuration again was discussed and
preliminarily approved with tech staff, Ada County tech staff contrary to the comments
made here. There were some suggestions made at the Ada County Highway District
meeting whereby we were asked to off set the road I think the full with of St. Luke's and
take it to a 15 degree angle on the south. Ada County Highway District staff keep in mind
they have to purchase the ground upon which this goes were totally against doing that
because they did not want to have to purchase the right of way that would enable them to
do that. They did not feel that the 20,000 cars a day that they are projecting coming off the
west bench of this roadway system, which incidentally goes if you will approximately 80
feet to the west, it has 125 foot radius the center line and lines up with the northerly end
of the loop road at Magic View. So there is a 4 way intersection and that is the way that
Ada County Highway District has laid it out for us. 1 think with that to avoid any more
lengthy time and philosophical discussions I think those are important issues. There was
one other comment relative to St. Luke's in fact that office use would be appropriate.
Certainly office use is appropriate there, they have 47 acres, they have 5 phases
according to Jeff. And they (inaudible) probably will absorb a majority of the market. I think
with that, that is all I have to offer.
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Strite, any questions from the Commission for the applicant? One
last time any one else like to testify?
Ann Bowen, 3067 Autumn Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Bowen: Those of us in the audience know what this looks like, I would like you guys to see
what it is so you know what it is I am talking about.
Johnson: We have a copy of that.
Bowen: Good, I live in the Greenhills Subdivision and I want you guys to know I don't know
if any of you have had a chance to drive through that area. It consists of beautiful homes
and are on 1 /2 acre and acre lots. We are people who have jobs and pay taxes and we
work hard at keeping up our neighborhood. It is hard to find homes to the caliber that we
have with the nice lots. People keep their yards up, it is a beautiful place to be, it is the
kind of place that Meridian should be proud to have as a neighborhood. I feel like with this
construction coming in it is raping our neighborhood and it will ruin it. Right now my home
Meridian Planking & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 42
is located about right here, I am missing all of this major development but it will come and
get me. The day that I came home from vacation and the Jackson's had opened up, I
walked into my backyard the lights were so bright I couldn't see my backyard. I couldn't
see fences, I couldn't see my dog, the lights were so horrendous and Texaco from my
house right here Texaco is clear over here and now we are looking at sticking it even
closer to our yards. Mr. Jackson was pretty good to work with us and managed to lower
down the lights to dim them to put a shield around them. At 2 in the morning I come home
from work and 1 have to call over there and say I can hear your radio, I know what song it
is playing turn it down. This happens quite frequently and Jacksons is clear across the
field. What is going to happen when we have Chevron with people coming in at 3 in the
morning to get gas and their radios are blasting it is going to ruin our neighborhood. It
wakes my kids up at night. Most of the homes along this area have 2 story homes and my
kids all sleep upstairs. I have had to buy special thick blinds to pull down to shield it so
it looks dark at night instead of light. That first week after they opened there was no moon
I had no lights on in my house at 2 in the morning I could sit in my living room and read the
paper it was so bright. I could hear the music and it is ruining our neighborhood. To pull
all of that any closer will do nothing but hurt our property values. The music is the problem
and even worse than the music is the idling of these big semi trucks, it is like somebody
turns on a base and all you hear is the boom, boom, boom and you hear for about an hour
and then you want to hit somebody because it is so obnoxious. All of these big trucks are
going to be pulling in and idling for hours. That is going to hurt our neighborhood too. I
feel like Greenhills Subdivision is a subdivision that Meridian should try and protect. It is
a nice neighborhood. If you guys let this kind of thing pass and come in and ruin our
neighborhood other neighborhoods in Meridian aren't going to have a chance either. ITD
said at our last meeting that I went to they said that there would be between 20 and 60,000
trips a day on Eagle Road. I don't know where all the other numbers are coming from but
that came out of their meeting. They are thinking it could be up to 60,000 trips a day. So
I just think it is important that we try to preserve a neighborhood that is nice and that looks
good and that people are paying their taxes and doing a good job with and not try and pull
in more commercial development. Thank you.
Johnson: Anyone else? At this time I will close the public hearing. As a suggestion we
might consider the comments and recommendation from Mr. Foley and also from the
applicant that the conditional use part of this application be tabled until the annexation and
zoning findings of facts are prepared. That is a suggestion, what you would like to do?
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I recommend that we table this to our discussion on this subject
item #7 until such time as we can get our facts together and (inaudible) next regular
meeting which is 9-10.
Oslund: Second
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August 13, 1996
Page 43
Johnson: Any discussion? We have a motion and a second to table item 7 until a date
certain of 9-10-96, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Johnson: I appreciate everyone that provided testimony this evening. If there is any
question as to what happened tonight of anything feel free to speak with Mr. Will Berg or
myself who whoever you can get a hold of. We will be looking at the findings of fact and
at our 9-10 meeting and at that point there will be no further testimony taken on that issue
however but those will be available for your review once they are prepared. Move onto to
item 8.
ITEM #8: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR VACATION OF EASEMENT BY RICHARD
VALLA:
Johnson: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite the applicant or his
representative to address the Commission.
Richard Valla, 16685 Rose Briar Lane, Nampa, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Valla: We are asking that an unused City water line easement a 1951 easement that runs
diagonally through our property virtually cuts it in half be vacated. We feel that the existing
lines to the north, the east and to the South of the property the City has service that area
and surrounding areas. Basically that is it.
Johnson: Thank you very much.
Crookston: I have a question, where is this water line, where is this located?
Valla: The property is the Northwest corner of Franklin and Meridian Roads.
Crookston: Thank you.
Johnson: This is a public hearing is there anybody that would like to address the
Commission on this issue? Seeing no one I will close the public hearing at this time.
Request for vacation of easement, what would you like to do?
Oslund: Mr. Chairman, I move that recommend to the City Council that they approve this
application for the abandonment of this easement.
MacCoy: Second
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 44
Johnson: There is a motion and a second to recommend approval to the City Council for
vacation of the easement by Richard Valla, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #9: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
KARATE CLASSES BY BRAD AND DEBBIE MILLER:
Johnson: We have your application, would you come fonaard please and address the
Commission, I will now open the public hearing.
Brad Miller, 855 N. Eagle Road, Kuna, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Miller: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners what I want to do here is lease the space next
to Weast T.V. on Franklin Road for the purpose of conducting Karate classes. The classes
will be conducted after hours approximately for 3 hours in the evening Monday through
Thursday.
Johnson: Did you want to address anything like the City's comments or staff comments
with regard to landscaping and berming?
Miller: Mr. Weast is the owner of the property so I don't have a whole lot to do with that.
Johnson: We have a letter from a concerned neighbor are you aware of that?
Miller: No
Johnson: We have a letter from a neighbor that I believe is directly north of the property
and we got that in today's mail we would be glad to make a copy of that available to you.
It is from Calvin and Edith Harris. Are there questions from the Commission to the
applicant. Would you like to reserve those.
MacCoy: As long as he has read the staff report and agrees to those because I thought
our staff report on that was very good and spelled out a lot of the items we had in our
minds.
Miller: I would like to address something, it says here that,
Johnson: You are referring to the Harris letter?
Miller: Yes, to the letter, it said children outside, our property is still vulnerable for children
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 45
outside waiting for parents to pick them up from class. I have a hard and fast rule, of
course martial arts has to do with discipline. No child leaves my premises until his parents
come to pick him up, they are not allowed outside. They have to wait inside until class is
over. That is a hard and fast rule.
Johnson: If that is a rule that they are inside then that would probably handle the last
paragraph as well.
Miller: It is a hard and fast rule. I have a very high level of discipline in my classes.
Johnson: Any other questions, I have some questions I guess for the owner of the property
then. Somewhere indicated in the material submitted to us that there would be a berm
there by the end of July. This is as of this morning it wasn't there. I guess I would like the
owner to comment with respect to that.
Wes Weast, 1785 Windy Ridge, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Weast: As far as the berm, the berm is there, there is a vinyl fence on top of it. There are
plants, I called Shari Stiles and told her we have curbing people coming in. It is also going
to be sprinkled.
Johnson: Excuse me, I guess I am confused, when I went over and looked at the property
your property facing south is located on the east side of the building right, your business
and there is also an office to the left of that. Is that, is or is not where this planned karate
school is?
Weast: That is where it is going to be.
Johnson: Well the berm is further east of your building, the berm that has been
constructed there doesn't have anything to do with the paved area.
Weast: This berm has to do with the trailer business that I had a conditional use permit,
it has nothing to do with the Karate.
Johnson: So what you are telling us is with respect to this application you don't have any
plans for a berm or landscaping is that correct or am I putting words in your mouth. Well
there is another comment in there that you plan on doing what Meridian Plumbing did.
Would you explain that to me because if you line your building up with Meridian Plumbing
you would have to landscape your entire paved lot.
Weast: As far as this paved lot, where this berm came into play is I got a conditional use
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August 13, 1996
Page 46
permit to run the trailer business. That is where the berm came in for approximately 50
feet on that side where the trailer business is. This berm has nothing to do with the karate
business.
Johnson: Well it is mentioned in this application so I tie the two together. I guess that
might be a little logical to do that.
Weast: Actually this berm was brought up about 2.5 years ago. Anyway we are in the
process of putting it in, but like I say it basically has nothing to do with the karate business.
When we agreed on this berm that was on the trailer business and that was on that side
of the building.
Johnson: I am sure that would be of interest to staff, I appreciate that clarification. Are
there other questions that we might have of the owner of the property at this point?
Borup: I think there were some other landscaping items that Shari had mentioned in her
letter as far as the trees. I guess it doesn't go beyond that, but is that also considered
being taken care of in the berm or is there still going to be some additional?
Weast: As far as trees, there was nothing mentioned in our agreement mentioned about
trees at the time. I didn't bring a copy of my letter from the City back when we done this 2.5
years ago.
Borup: No this wasn't from then it was on this application.
Weast: Well as far as trees, I can put a couple of trees in there. What we have in there
right now is just bushes and shrubbery and so forth like that.
MacCoy: Have you read this material here from Shari Stiles?
Weast: I have read some of it as far as from Ada County and so forth.
MacCoy: What Keith is referring to is an item 2, there is currently no landscaping on the
site of 1 inch 3 inch caliper tree per 1500 square foot of paving is required. That is, I am
assuming that you have read this and agreed.
Weast: First of all the way that property is set up that is an older part of town. As far as
putting a berm out in the middle of that pavement would be ridiculous. It would be useless,
as a matter of fact it would interfere with traffic. People come in, that place has been there
since 1972. We haven't had any problems, like I said this landscaping deal has come up
with the trailer business. As far as putting a berm out in the middle of that thing I don't see
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 47
the reason for that. That is all paved clear to Franklin, there are no sidewalks, there is no
curbing, there is no nothing in there.
Oslund: I think another point that is important on there maybe even more so is on item 1,
because it is obligating, if you were to agree to this it is obligating you to even more. It is
a 20 foot wide common landscape area in addition to those trees stating that this is an
entrance corridor to the City of Meridian and basically it is saying they would want you to
match the landscaping that has been agreed to by Honor Park across the street. So you
(inaudible) these comments here. If we (inaudible) all of this stuff is included in there.
Weast: First of all as far as putting, is this what the County is asking?
Oslund: No this is what we are asking.
Weast: I wasn't aware of that but I don't intend on landscaping the front of that because
then you are going to deter traffic coming into those two businesses. There has always
been a business there. Basically what we are doing is changing signs on that. There has
always been a office to the other side of that building. The whole thing is paved all the
way through there. As far as this landscaping deal from what I was aware of was from 2.5
years ago on the trailer end of the business.
Johnson: No, you have got to read this August 9 letter from Shari Stiles. She is addressing
this application she is not talking about anything from 2.5 years ago. Item 6, she is
requesting from you a detailed landscape plan. This is an opportunity for the City of
Meridian even though there has been a business there since 1972 or whatever it is to
improve the entrance corridor to the City. Okay, it is very important in my opinion that you
work out some kind of plan with our Planning and Zoning Administrator Shari Stiles
(inaudible) requirement for landscape. We cannot ignore that we won't ignore her
comments here. Maybe you haven't had time to massage that and communicate with her.
It is all summed up in item 11, it just plain says there aren't going to be any classes in that
building until an agreement is struck. She says it better than I do but that is the just of it.
So, that is something that whatever happens here tonight is going to be conditioned upon
compliance with her guidance to us, her instructions to us or suggestions to us however
you want to phrase that and conditioned on that. That is where we are at with this right
now. I am trying to make this as clear as 1 can make it.
Weast: I was not aware of that as far as what the City of Meridian. Now the County had a
meeting and they were wondering why we were even there. We aren't new construction
Johnson: Their interest and ours don't always agree that is true, I agree with that.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 48
Weast: Sometime down the road here from what I understand they are going to widen
Franklin Road. So anything we do there will probably be torn out down the road here
anyway. As far as with Shari Stiles, I was from the understanding of talking to her that we
were concerned about the berm on the east side of the building. As a matter of fact I
believe her and the Planning and Zoning people or you guys or somebody was out there
measuring that here the other day.
Johnson: I was out there but I didn't' really measure it. We can get some comments on
that. Are there any other things that we need to address?
MacCoy: There is also the other letter which is from the City Engineer which was hand in
glove of what she came up with. So you are going to need both letters, copies of both and
sit down and agree with that. I think each one of those has some very definite things in
there that are going to cost you something to put in if that is what you want to do at this
moment.
Johnson: Do you have those letters?
Weast: (Inaudible) the only thing I read was from the County. I am not aware
Johnson: These letters are dated August 9, which is Friday.
Weast: 1 would like to make a comment on the letter you have from the neighbor. This has
been a feud going on since 1969, the man was not happy where there were horses out
there, he wasn't happy when there was cows out there, he is not a happy man. That is the
way it is, he has a complaint constantly on what I am doing. I have Ada County weed
control come out and spray the weeds and he says I sprayed his lawn. It is ridiculous. He
is just a constant complainer as far as this letter coming from him. That is a 7 foot chain
link fence not a 10 foot, I see he made a comment on the fence. As far as the letter from
Cal and Edith like I say that has been on ongoing battle.
Johnson: Well I don't interpret their letter to be particularly unusual, they just brought up
some questions and concerns. That is the way I read that letter.
Weast: What we are going to have to do, this is the first time 1 have ever seen this, I don't
know if one of these was sent to us.
Johnson: That didn't come in until today.
Weast: I mean this here.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 49
Johnson: That is dated August 9, I don't know when that was mailed. We can clarify that
for you before you leave tonight.
Crookston: Is there your property not annexed to the City of Meridian?
Weast: No it is annexed to the City.
Crookston: I was just wondering about your comments about Ada County I don't know why
those would be applicable in any fashion.
Weast: Well we were called and told to go down.
Crookston: I am sorry you were referring to Ada County, apparently you were referring to
Ada County Highway District.
Weast: Right
Johnson: Thank you Mr. Weast, is there anyone else that would like to comment on this?
Is there anything that would be appropriate to add by staff?
Borup: I have a question of clar'rfication probably from Shari, that was on some of the items
I think we already covered. I don't think there is much doubt on what is talking about the
trees and having a detailed landscape plan submitted. But on item 1, she says that it
should have something similar but not that it must. I was wondering is that anticipating
what ACRD may be doing in the future and would there be some coordination with them
as far as what they would want. I guess relating to the comment that if the road is widened
what would be there would be torn out. I don't know if ACHD knows to this point exactly
what they will be doing if that could be coordinated with future plans if that would
(inaudible).
Stiles: The City of Meridian has adopted a standard of 90 foot right of ways on all section
line roads as a minimum. Before any occupancy is given for this use or any other use that
roadway right of way needs to be dedicated to Ada County Highway District which is 45
feet from the centerline and there shouldn't any landscaping installed whatsoever within
that 45 feet. The 20 feet begins where the right of way ends. Does that answer your
question?
Borup: And the Highway District wouldn't be doing any more than the 90 feet?
Stiles: Not at this time. That is what they requested just recently across the street on a
commercial subdivision. That will accommodate a 5 lane roadway with curb, gutter and
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 50
sidewalks.
Borup: Did you intend for your language to be a little stronger than should that is should
say will or will meet this requirement?
Stiles: I guess I would like to say shall but I will leave that up to the Commission and
Council whether they would mandate that 20 feet at this time.
Oslund: I have a question for you, on the other side, on Honor Park that is considered new
construction and so they have the ability to meet those standards more readily possibly
than this gentleman might. I don't know his exact situation but let's just supposing that the
location of his building that if he goes out to the 45 foot point the ultimate right of way and
then puts in 20 feet of landscaping as we would require here you add all of those numbers
up and so form the edge of landscaping to his front door is 9 feet. No place to park makes
the situation impossible. What is the process for him to work through that, is that a
variance. I am wondering, like I said I don't know how far it is, I haven't looked at it.
Stiles I wouldn't know without physically going out and measuring the site. The site plan
that we received has no scale that I can, I can't determine this from this site plan that we
have.
Oslund: I guess we don't need to but if we require him to do this say we do the findings
and the next time we say this is the deal and he gets into the detailed design of his
landscaping and finds that he cannot meet this standard that we have set. Is there a
mechanism by which he can get it altered i.e. a variance from Council. Is it, what is his
recourse?
Stiles: I don't think it is our intent to make the site unusable but to have that there, without
seeing a landscape plan I can't answer that.
Crookston: Mr. Oslund the 20 feet deal is an ordinance requirement that has been
enforced by the City when anybody comes in for a conditional use permit regardless of
where the property is located. The City has tried to enforce those particularly on section
line roads. There is no doubt it is somewhat of a problem here because Ada County 1
believe has intentions to widen Franklin. Whether or not that is something that is in the
funding process for ACRD I am not aware of, it could be. I think that needs to be
considered. If it is in the five year plan, if it is in the 10 year plan that is I think another
thing that the City needs to be concerned with. Do they want landscaping there for 10
years. But those are things that the commission needs to be concerned with and if they are
ordinance requirements he can request a variance.
Meridian Planning i~ Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 51
Johnson: Could you come back up, I have a question or two for you, Brad. This may be
in the material but I didn't pick it up. What would be your proposed hours of operation and
also what would you anticipate in terms of numbers of people or students?
Miller: My class will begin at 6:30 and the last class will be at approximately 8:30 at night.
Johnson: So we are talking 2 hours?
Miller: 3, 6:30, 7:30 and 8:30 class.
Johnson: Oh, you have 3 different classes. So they are hour classes so the maximum use
would be from 6:30 to 9:30 in the evening. How many days a week would that be?
Miller: Four
Johnson: Is that week days or weekends?
Miller: Monday through Thursday.
Johnson: So actually your hours of operation would not conflict at all with Mr. Weast
because his shop would be closed by then right.
Miller: Yes
Johnson: So any required parking I have been over there, there is a minimal amount of
parking right in front of the building, you could utilize all of that for drop off or whatever, I
am just trying to address the letter as well that we received. How many students would you
anticipate, what would be an ideal situation.
Miller: It varies, it depends on whether they feel like coming to class that night.
Approximately around 10 students to a class on average.
Johnson: That is all I had, I should have asked you that earlier. Thank you. Is there anyone
else that would like to make a comment on this application?
Weast: As far as parking in front of that building and so forth we are almost 80 feet from
the center line of Franklin Road to the building. So if we want to landscape that and you
want to pull a crew cab in there you are out of luck. There is just no enough room there
to do that. Like I say as far as the letter
Crookston: Excuse me, your building is 80 feet from the centerline?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 52
Weast: From the centerline of Franklin. As far as this letter I did not receive this letter, the
one from the City of Meridian.
Johnson: Did you receive it Brad?
(Inaudible)
Weast: This is all news to me.
Johnson: Usually it is mailed or always it is mailed to the applicant is it not?
(Inaudible)
Weast: Back to this berm deal, I think we have a communication gap here somewhere.
Johnson: I am certainly part of that communication gap.
Weast: I always thought it was to the east of the building and that was the big deal and so
that is what I have been working on.
Johnson: Thank you, if there are no other comments then I will close this public hearing.
What would the commissioners like to do.
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I propose that we table this until the next meeting which is 9-10
at that time the owner of the property will have a chance to meet with our staff and pound
out exactly what material was written for him does say.
Oslund: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second, any discussion? The motion is to table the item
until next month.
Borup: Is this so the applicant can discuss the landscaping?
MacCoy: No, it is to the whole thing, all of the staff comments. He said he never had a
chance to read and digest those. So I think we are (inaudible) but to table.
Johnson: Okay are we read for a vote, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 53
ITEM #10: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN
ITALIAN RESTAURANT BY CHRIS MALLANE:
Johnson: I will now open the public hearing and invite the representative to address the
Commission.
Pete Rockwell, 713 Elwood, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Rockwell: I have a drawing, shall I put that up on the easel here? (Inaudible)
Johnson: Is that an enlargement of what we have?
Rockwell: Yes, just walk you through this thing a little bit if you are not familiar with it. This
piece of property is on East Fairview and corner of Hickory Way. There is a Capital
Christian Church which I believe is adjacent to that. This piece of property is 7 acres. We
are requesting a conditional use to build two restaurants on the southwest corner of the
property. We have access in off of Fairview according to Ada County Highway District
regulations and we have shared access at 2 points off of Hickory Way. Hickory Way goes
back to residential subdivision back here. This property is zoned LO and adjacent
property just to the west is zoned RT. Right now the only restaurant that is planned is an
8000 square foot Louie's restaurant. We want to plan also a restaurant that would
compliment that like a Pancake house or something like that (inaudible). There is still
(inaudible) on the site and we are trying (inaudible). This preliminary plan is intended to
comply with both the requirements of the City of Meridian and Ada County Highway District
(inaudible). We agree with most of the recommendations of the staff report. There is one
thing on Bruce Freckleton's report that I have a question about, I just don't' understand it
exactly and that is number 7. Which talks about constructing acceleration and
deceleration lanes and curb and sidewalk and gutter. We are not clear as to whose
responsibility that would be or should be on this project. Let's see, there is also a traffic
light planned for the comer of Hickory and East Fairview that we are required to put some
money up towards and in fact we would like to accelerate that because the traffic light
would make things better for this business and for the neighborhood there. So, that is all
that i have to say. We would request your approval of that conditional use and I would like
to answer any questions if anybody has any or anybody in the audience.
MacCoy: What is your seating capacity in Louie's restaurant?
Rockwell: 250 maximum (inaudible)
MacCoy: Any place for a conference section be able to (inaudible) any place to be
sectioned off for special meetings or smaller meetings?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 54
(Inaudible)
Rockwell: It is intended that there be different banquet facilities and maybe some modified
ones so you could have smaller groups of 10 people in there and also some larger groups
of up to 30 so that it could also be used for regular seating when there are not meetings
scheduled.
MacCoy: We are in great need for that in this City.
Rockwell: We realize that (inaudible)
Crookston: I have a question, you said that there were going to be two restaurants, is this
conditional use permit for two restaurants or is it for one being Louie's?
Rockwell: We would like it to encompass two restaurants.
Crookston: But you don't know what the other restaurant is.
Rockwell: We don't know what the other one is we are looking for another one right now,
a compatible one.
(End of Tape)
Borup: You had mentioned item 7 from Bruce Freckleton on the acceleration and
deceleration lanes, were there any other items between the two City ones and ACRD?
Rockwell: Well there was one from ACHD that we had talked with at the preliminary
meeting with them where they wanted I think it was $3200 towards the traffic light. That
was for both restaurants and if we wanted to pay those in installments of $1600 and that
was agreeable with them. That was the only other thing that I noticed in there.
Borup: Was there any discussion with ACRD on the added lanes at all?
Rockwell: They said that they were planning Fairview to be a seven lane road. That is their
plan. So they were already thinking that way with the acceleration and deceleration lanes
on there. So we had always considered that as something that was inevitably coming.
That is why this item 7 is, I am not sure who Bruce is suggesting these deceleration
(inaudible) if he is saying we should be building those lanes or ACRD should.
Borup: So this site already takes in account allowing for the wider
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August 13, 1996
Page 55
Rockwell: Yes, they asked for an extra 4 feet of right of way along there and we have
(inaudible)
Johnson: Just a comment, you introduction was, with respect to zoning I don't think was
accurate, you mentioned something about an RT zoning, we do not have RT zoning in the
City of Meridian, that is a county zoned and this is all zoned LO from our records, the way
I indicate it. Well you may have been looking at an old zoning map or something from the
County, I just wanted to correct you on that item. That Rural Transition zoning doesn't
exist, we don't have it as part of one of our zones, otherwise we couldn't be doing a
conditional use permit we would have to annex it first and it has already been annexed.
Any other comments?
MacCoy: You show four spaces for handicapped (inaudible) first place for Louie's that you
are complying with the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Rockwell: Our intent is that we will comply with it, one of Shari's comments was that we
needed two more for the number of parking spaces that we had.
MacCoy: Yes I was going to bring that up, then over on the other one that has no
designation whatsoever, accept just a restaurant you don't have any handicapped parking
over there.
Rockwell: No, I am just trying to show a concept of what we intend to do. The basic size
of it and we still have to find the other people that want to run a restaurant there and
coordinate their needs but we would be providing the handicapped parking spaces.
MacCoy: So you would come back with that then?
Rockwell: Yes, building permit we will have all of that stuff taken care of including the
detailed landscaping and what we are doing with the irrigation and site utilities and all of
that.
MacCoy: What kind of signage are you planning on putting up here, big, small, lighted,
what?
Rockwell: We haven't really talked about signage yet.
MacCoy: You realize that has to go through here also. The reason I bring that up
(inaudible)
Rockwell: (Inaudible)
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 56
Johnson: Any other questions? Thank you, this is a public hearing, is there anyone else
that would like to address us on this issue?
Corey Grant, 2505 E. Grapewood Drive, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Grant: Basically I just have a few questions in reference to this drawing. We received a
sketch basically in the mail, I will say a month ago, three weeks. It wasn't as detailed,
actually the arrow was on the other side of the street in front of Capital Christian on the
drawing that I got, it didn't really go across this lot. So I have a few questions, I am not
really here to debate whether the restaurant should go there or not. I know something is
going to have to go there eventually, I am not saying that I am voting for the restaurant but
I (inaudible) my question is I will speak loud. Are you guys basically purchasing the whole
lot here that is vacant to put the two restaurants or is it only this section?
Rockwell: It is the whole property with the exception of this point up here on the end.
Grant: So you are getting all of that, and you said that you have entrances both from
Hickory. Now my complaint for the Commission would be that Hickory is basically a two
lane street and to have commercial traffic trying to use Hickory to try and go in and out of
this establishment would really be detrimental to Dove Meadows for the simple fact that
Dove Meadows is one way in and one way out. So residents don't have another way to
avoid traffic coming in and out of Louie's or whatever other restaurant would be placed
here. Also my concern would be the sign because I live on Grapewood which is the street
that is right behind this property. So maybe the noise factor, I don't know what you guys
have in store for that. We didn't get any more than basically a sketch saying that there
would be a meeting tonight. There is a large sign, I would basically get the light because
my backyard is about here. So I am going to be fairly close the the restaurant. Again the
traffic in Hickory would be congestive, I assume you guys operate on Sunday also, you
have Capital Christian here which they do a lot of parking basically on this street area. So
on Sundays you have traffic coming in and out of these two exits along with cars from the
church here that can also get a little hazardous shall I say. So those are some of the
concerns that I think at least need to be looked at or addressed for granting use of this.
Like I said I realize something has to go there, the property is there and somebody has to
sell it that is the American way. But again with my property being on this first street and
on the south side I am really going to be affected by whatever goes there. I just want to
make sure that these things are addressed because I had been here prior (inaudible)
which he still hasn't done what he should have done. So I am really concerned, this is my
first home and I don't want to lose too much money on it. Basically that is all I have to say.
Johnson: I appreciate your comments, it does appear that the original sketch that you got
was incorrect in terms of the arrow, we got a copy of that too and unless I am reading it
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 57
wrong. Anyone else? Any questions from staff from anyone? Hearing none I will close the
public hearing. What would you like to do, this is a conditional use permit request.
Oslund: Mr. Chairman, I move that direct Counsel to prepare findings of fact and
conclusions of law.
MacCoy: Second
Johnson: Moved and seconded that we have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and
conclusions of law, any discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #11: PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR BRIDGEWOOD
CONDOMINIUM BY BOISE VALLEY CONSTRUCTION:
Johnson: At this time I will open the public hearing and ask that the applicant or the
representative address the Commission.
Charles Eddy, 4345 South Timridge Way, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Eddy: First I have some pictures for you of the proposed site. I will pass those around.
This site is located in Section 6, T.3N, R.1E, which is generally located about a 1/4 mile
north of the existing Cherry Plaza mall. It is a resubdivision of Bridgewood Park
Subdivision, it is a resubdivision of Block 1. The original subdivision was done in 1994 as
a 12 lot subdivision. Currently there are 12 four unit apartments on each parcel. The
existing zoning is R-15 and the comp plan designates this area as an urban development.
The applicant is requesting to resubdivided these current lots into condominium lots, this
is allowed through the conditional use application in an R-15 zone. As I said before the
building are already existent on the property, services are currently there, there is an
improved street with curb gutter and sidewalk that runs through the property. The property
directly north of it is newly developed apartments, property directly west is existing
apartments that have been there for quite a number of years. The property to the south is
currently under develop as what looks like single family development. This development
will not add any new services to the current system, everything has been served with water
and sewer. As I said before the roads had been improved. What the applicant is looking
to do is take the current four unit apartments that are on the parcel and create
condominiums which would allow either the cement renters to purchase these units or any
other parties that would be interested in purchasing a condominium unit. I would like to
address some comments that were in the staff report. Item 1 restates what I have told you.
Item 2 we submitted a copy of the covenants and restrictions with the application and you
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 58
should have that in your file. Item 3 the planting of additional trees the applicant doesn't
have a problem with the planting of additional trees on the site. The pictures will depict
that there are some trees that have already been planted on the site. Item 4, constructing
the 12 foot wide gravel access road over existing sewer. That has been done, there was
18 inches of gravel that were poured onto the site and then 3 inches of top soil were put
on top of that and grass was planted. So it is there it is just that right now it is landscaped
over for aesthetics. If the City would require that grass be removed and the gravel exposed
that can be done. Item 5, there is a problem with the existing stone water system.
However that is Ada County Highway District under their maintenance now the applicant
wishes ACHD would resolve the problem with the standing water. As I interpret the
comment from staff it is making a point that the applicant should resolve it and it is at least
in my opinion difficult for him to resolve it when it is not under his control. He has been in
discussion with ACHD to try and get it resolved and it is my understanding that they have
been working on it along with Briggs Engineering to try and alleviate the problem of the
standing water. That is all for the comments. Just general comments on how this will affect
the City, the City of Meridian it is difficult to find an entry level affordable housing for
people trying to buy their first home. What this will allow people to do is come in and
purchase a condominium at a very reasonable rate of between $60,000 and $70,000, turn
them from being renters into property tax payers and make them a part of the community.
As you can see from the pictures the site is already very well maintained. As people
become homeowners it will continued to be maintained in that manner as well as probably
increase because they will have a definite interest in the aesthetics of their area. There
will be a homeowners association that will maintain the common areas throughout the
subdivision. The association wilt be managed by a company by the name of American
Management Inc. They will take care of providing the maintenance for the property,
collecting the dues from the homeowners and making sure what might be missed by the
homeowners is picked up by themselves. A technical note that I missed, the R-15 zone
allows for a minimum of 2400 square feet of lot per dwelling unit. This particular
development has 48 dwelling units on it at 3.1 acres which equates out to 2795 square feet
per unit which is well above the required 2400. Are there any questions?
MacCoy: Yes, on the map you gave us here, number one I have been out on the site and
I commend you for your upkeep of the place. I was expecting something else and I was
very much pleased to see that we had in our town our City here a well kept place of this
type. You show 12 buildings, are all 12 of these going to be the condominium complex?
Eddy: Yes they are, there are 12 four unit buildings (inaudible).
MacCoy: And you are saving the center section for some future
Eddy: That is owned by separate individuals it is not owned by the current applicant.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 59
MacCoy: That is interesting, it is kind of a strange way to break things up.
Eddy: I think there are future plans to try and follow this although (inaudible) separate
application. I would like to add that the developer has been approved for a ten year
warranty on all of the buildings. So when the buildings are sold as condominiums the
ten year warranty will go with it and that is a warranty on structural or any type of
mechanical problems that might occur. That warranty travels with the building so if it
transfers five times it will transfer to each of the five owners. And also the developer is
creating financing to where it is possible if the homeowner is unable to come up with a
down they would be able to move into the developments with zero down.
MacCoy: I had another question but I can't think of it right now.
Borup: Do you know what warranty company that was?
Eddy: It is by the same management company called American Management Inc.
Borup: Do they have a separate homeowners warranty?
Eddy: It is HBW
Borup: I guess I had, one concern was on the storm water problem, you mentioned it, how
do you control, it sounds like it is something that needs to be addressed by somebody at
some time. Has there been any in your discussions any recommendations on what can be
done or any possible solutions to come up with?
Eddy: What the problem as occurred from I believe the development to the north, through
their process of building, a lot of the silt came into the storm drain system. It is my
impression that Briggs Engineering which was involved in designing this storm drain
system and also ACHD are currently working on remedying, they have been pumping the
system to alleviate any type of water problems that have been occurring. So they are
addressing the problem.
Borup: It sounds like the problem has been coming from the other development with silt
build up you say?
Eddy: That is my understanding.
Borup: So you don't know whether they are, are they looking at some other settling tanks
in there to remove that first?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 60
Eddy: Remove it
Borup: To remove the silt
Eddy: (Inaudible) I am not an engineer so I can't give you the technical specifications on
what they are trying to do. I know they are trying to alleviate the problem.
Borup: You mentioned you were in agreement with planting some additional trees, I don't
know, I assume at some time a landscaping plan will need to be turned in or how many
trees will have to be determined at some point.
Eddy: I guess that would be determined by staff since they made the recommendation on
how many additional they would like to see.
Borup: I assume them on the gravel what you said is already in (inaudible) visual
inspection it wasn't obvious so I don't know if staff, I don't know if (inaudible).
Eddy: What it is is 3 inches of top soil (inaudible) staff would like to walk the site I am sure
we could expose it form them.
Johnson: Anyone else? Thank you Mr. Eddy, anyone else like to come before the
Commission this evening on this?
Tony Drost, 10336 W. Silver City, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Drost: I am a property owner of two of the four plexes within the center that is not shown
on this application. There are three other, excuse me two other owners, I don't have the
lot and block, if we look at it as 6, the upper left, that is a separate owner and three at the
end of the horseshoe. We plan to, I plan to discuss with the other owners with the help of
the developer to ride their coattails in on this as well. There is a storm drain, 1 have talked
to Ada County Highway District myself as a property owner concerned. They said they
already have got several contingency plans in place, it is just a matter of choosing the
proper one the least expensive was going to cause the most problems with the current
tenants an what not. If there is a problem with water on the street Ada County Highway
is draining and the current management company is draining it if Ada County does not
respond. I of course am in favor of this as an investor, this will increase the property
value, it will also as far as aesthetics in the complex right now you have a tenant base you
will have property owners, property owners will show much more concern about their
property so I think it will be a good thing for Meridian.
Johnson: Thank you Tony, anyone else?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 61
Eddy: I just have one more thing, what I wanted to do was restate that AMI is not American
Management Incorporated but Association Management Incorporated, that is all I wanted
to say.
Johnson: Okay, any questions? Anybody else that would like to talk to us this evening
about anything? Keith had some comments that you may want to address and you were
here, you were taking a break there. Can you state those quickly?
Borup: Yes, items 3 and 4 on your comments. One was just requiring additional trees, the
question was whether you would be getting together with them as far as how many and or
have them submit a landscaping plan and then approve that. The other was on the gravel,
he stated the gravel road was already in and they just put sod over the top, I didn't know
if you were needing some additional verification of that too.
Stiles: On item 3 I guess I would like to plant additional trees. They do have trees there,
they were probably quite small when they were planted. The main concern is along James
Court where there doesn't seem to be anything but open grass and we received a letter
from the developer of Aspen Hills Apartments concerned that they had done some
extensive landscaping along that collector road and would like to see something similar
done across the street. On item 4 that is something that Bruce came up with that was from
the original subdivision. I guess I would have to ask him if that is going to work for them.
Did you say, how much top soil.
Eddy: It is an 18 inch gravel base with 3 inches of top soil on top of it.
Stiles: I will let Bruce know that and see if that is adequate for them.
Johnson: Is that all you had Keith?
Borup: Yes
Johnson: Anyone else? If not I will close the public hearing at this time. This is a
preliminary plat only that we are addressing right now. So this does not require findings
of fact and conclusions of law.
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I recommend approval of the preliminary plat for item 11 for the
Bridgewood Condominium.
Oslund: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and second to approve the preliminary plat for Bridgewood
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 62
Condominium by Boise Valley Construction, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #12: PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR BRIDGEWOOD
CONDOMINIUM BY BOISE VALLEY CONSTRUCTION:
Johnson: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite Mr. Eddy to return to the
podium, do you have any additional comments at this time.
Charles Eddy, 4345 S. Timridge Way, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Eddy: I would like to have the comments that I made from the previous testimony be
incorporated into this application as well. Are there any questions?
Johnson: Thank you, any questions of Mr. Eddy on the conditional use permit? Thank you,
anyone else that would like to address the Commission on this application? Seeing no
one then I will close the public hearing. This is a conditional use permit so we do need
findings of facts.
MacCoy: Mr. Chairman, I recommend that we have findings of fact and conclusions of law
written for item 12 Bridgewood Condominium.
Oslund: Second
Johnson: We have a motion and a second to have the City Attorney prepare findings of
fact and conclusions of law for item 12 on our agenda, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Oslund: Mr. Chairman, I move that the meeting be adjourned.
MacCoy: Second
Johnson: Motion and a second to adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:23 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
August 13, 1996
Page 63
APPROVED:
5 U.-'-_`
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J N, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
fiu-b`---'l~ ~'z~
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CI CL RK
CITY OF MERIDIA
PUBIC MEETING SIGN-U SHEET
~ ~ ~i
CITY OF MERIDIA
PUB~C MEETING SIGN-U SHEET
BEFORE TBE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN
~?~~ REZONE R-4 RESIDENTIAL TO L-O LIMITED OFFICE
~`. > BELLS WATRINS AND DOUG STEWART
`~ 1250 W. CHERRY LANE
~~ MERIDIAN, IDAHO
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS
The above entitled matter having come on for public hearing
July 9, 1996, at the hour of 7:30 o'clock p.m., the Petitioner,
Doug Stewart, appearing, the Planning and Zoning Commission of the
City of Meridian having duly considered the evidence and the matter
makes the following Findings of Fact and Conclusions:
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. That a notice of a public hearing on the Rezone
Application was published for two (2) consecutive weeks prior to
the said public hearing scheduled for July 9, 1996, the first
publication of which was fifteen (15) days prior to said hearing;
that the matter was duly considered at the July 9, 1996, hearing;
that the public was given full opportunity to express comments and
submit evidence; and that copies of all notices were available to
newspaper, radio and television stations;
2. That this property, contains approximately .49 acres and
is located within the City of Meridian and which property is
described in the application which description is incorporated
herein; the Applicant is not the owner of record of the property,
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 1
but the owner of record is Sheila Kildow; that the property is
currently zoned R-4; that the Applicant is requesting a rezone to
L-O Limited Office; that the property is within close proximity to
existing homes and schools; that the proposed office request is
consistent with the growth pattern west down Cherry Lane; that the
new Meridian Library is located one property away to the west and
the property immediately to the east is a real estate office, with
virtually everything along Cherry Lane frontage to the east is
business, office or commercial.
3. That the owner, Sheila Kildow has submitted her consent
for the rezone, and it is incorporated herein as if set forth in
full.
4. That the Applicant stated in the Application that this
proposed zoning amendment would allow for a professional office
site in the current structure using the existing vehicle entrance
and exit off Cherry Lane; that the plan for parking, signs and
landscaping would meet all City Ordinances and that the overall
goal is to mirror the professional look of existing office sites
nearby.
5. Doug Stewart testified before the Commission that he and
his wife, Kelle Watkins, are attempting to buy the property at 1250
West Cherry Lane to convert it to light office use as a counseling
office for his wife; that the location lends itself well for an
additional professional office space; that the comment from the
Planning and Zoning Director, Shari Stiles, regarding a minimum of
a 20 foot landscape setback, was in question; that as it stands now
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 2
there is 35 feet from the sidewalk to the front of the house; that
there is already a 13 foot planter in the front; that the house has
been at this location for 35 years; that the Ada County Highway
District is asking that access be gained through Leisure Lane, but
that Leisure Lane is a private road; that between the Leisure Lane
and this property there is an 8 foot strip of land whose owner is
unknown to the Applicant; that the Applicant's insurance man
suggested that it was not a good plan to access this proposed
property through two (2j pieces of private property when there is
already a curb cut in front of the house that takes the Applicant
off the street and keeps the Applicant on his own property; that
regarding ACHD's draft recommendations, it was decided by ACHD that
the curb cut would be left where it is and to qo ahead and use it
because it is such a limited use and not at all a high traffic
business anyway.
6. That the proposed zoning amendment is consistent with the
Meridian Comprehensive Plan.
7. That the property is presently zoned R-4, Low Density
Residential; that the Applicant's propose a rezone to L-O, Limited
Office District; that a professional office building is a permitted
use in the L-O District.
8. That the L-O District is described in the Zoning
Ordinance, 11-2-408 B. 5 as follows:
(L-O) LIMITED OFFICE DISTRICT: The purpose of the (L-O)
District is to permit the establishment of groupings of
professional, research, executive, administrative, accounting,
clerical, stenographic, public service and similar uses.
Research uses shall not involve heavy testing operations of
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 3
any kind or product manufacturing of such a nature to create
noise, vibration or emissions of a nature offensive to the
overall purpose of this district. The L-O District is
designed to act as a buffer between other more intense non-
residential uses and high density residential uses, and is
thus a transitional use. Connection to the Municipal Water
and Sewer System of the City of Meridian is a requirement in
this district.
9. The City Planning and Zoning Administrator, Shari Stiles
submitted comments regarding the rezone request which are
incorporated herein as if set forth in full herein; that a
development agreement should be required as a condition of rezone;
that a detailed site plan to determine compliance with landscaping,
lighting, parking, drainage, utility hookups, etc., must be
submitted and approved prior to occupancy; that a Certificate of
Occupancy must be obtained prior to use of the building as an
office; that Cherry Lane is designated as an entrance corridor in
the Meridian Comprehensive Plan, and a minimum 20-foot landscape
setback should be required as a condition of rezoning; that parking
and striping shall meet the requirements of Meridian City
Ordinance; that drainage calculations for on-site retention are to
be submitted for approval by the Meridian Public Works Department;
that a minimum of one (1) 3" caliper tree is required for every
1,500 square feet of asphalt and all parking areas are to be paved,
and that the adjacent residential properties are to be buffered by
means of a planting strip.
10. That the Assistant to the City Engineer, Bruce
Freckleton, submitted comments; that off-street parking shall be
provided in accordance to the Meridian City Zoning and Development
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 4
Ordinance; that outside lighting shall be designed and placed so as
to not direct illumination on any nearby residences; that all
signage shall be in accordance with Meridian City Ordinances; that
sanitary sewer and water services to this facility would be by
means of existing service lines; that assessments for sewer and
water service will be reviewed to see if additional load would
justify an adjustment and that the Applicant shall provide any
information with regards to the anticipated water demand and the
Applicant will be required to enter into an Assessment Agreement
with the City of Meridian.
11. That the Ada County Highway District submitted draft
comments and they are incorporated herein as if set forth in full;
that the draft site specific requirements are as follows:
1. Utility street cuts in the new pavement on Cherry
Lane are not allowed unless approved in writing by the
District.
2. The existing 11-foot wide driveway on Leisure Lane
located approximately 7 feet from the back of the curb on
Cherry Lane shall be eliminated.
3. If permission of the owner of the 15 foot wide
parcel between this site and Leisure Lane can be obtained
by the Applicant, access to the site's proposed parking
lot shall be provided from Leisure Lane behind the
dwelling (approximately 110 feet from Cherry Lane.) If
permission can not be obtained, the existing residential
curb cut driveway on Cherry Lane shall be permitted as an
interim access to the project site.
4. Restrictions on the width, number and locations of
driveways, may be placed on future development of this
parcel.
12. That comments from the Nampa & Meridian Irrigation
District, the Meridian City Police and Fire Departments, and
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 5
Central District Health Department were submitted and they are
incorporated herein as if set forth in full.
13. Commissioner Shearer commented why there would be any
reason to just not have this driveway come in and go to the back;
that to follow the Planning Director's recommendation with regard
to the landscaping, this driveway could come through the required
landscaping area and therefore eliminating all the gravel parking
and so on in the front.
14. Mr. Stewart responded that this already exists and he
would like to just leave it and the planting area.
15. That there was testimony from John Longden, who owns the
easement, Leisure Lane; that the 8 foot section of private road
between the proposed property and Leisure Lane is; that to his
understanding Ada County took for taxes, but that in about a month
the Tax Commission [Ada County Highway District] will figure out
what they are going to do with the strip of land; that he is
concerned about parking on Leisure Lane; that it is a narrow road
and if parking begins to happen on the Lane it will create a
problem for emergency vehicles or even folks getting in and out of
that easement; that the Applicant was told to his cut off coming
out of the particular lot onto Leisure Lane.
16. That there was no other testimony heard.
CONCLUSIONS
1. That all the procedural requirements of the Local
Planning Act and of the Ordinances of the City of Meridian have
been met including the mailing of notice to owners of property
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 6
within 300 feet of the external boundaries of the Applicants'
property.
2. That the City has the authority to take judicial notice
of its own ordinances, other governmental statutes and ordinances,
and of actual conditions existing within the City and State.
3. That the City of Meridian has authority to place
conditions upon granting a zoning amendment.
4. That the City has judged this Application for a zoning
amendment upon the basis of guidelines contained in Section 11-2-
416 of the Revised and Compiled Ordinances of the City of Meridian
and upon the basis of the Local Planning Act of 1975, Title 67
Chapter 65, Idaho Code, the Comprehensive Plan of the City of
Meridian, and the record submitted to it and the things of which it
can take judicial notice.
5. That Section 11-2-416 A. states in part as follows:
"When the public necessity, convenience, general welfare or
zoning and development practice require, the Council may
amend, supplement, change, or repeal the regulations,
restrictions, and boundaries or classification of property as
well as the regulations and provisions of this Ordinance."
6. That 11-2-416 (K) of the Revised and Compiled Ordinances
of the City of Meridian sets forth standards under which the City
shall review applications for zoning amendments; that upon a review
of those requirements and a review of the facts presented and
conditions of the area, the Planning and Zoning Commission
specifically concludes as follows:
(a) The L-O zoning would be harmonious with and in accordance
with the Comprehensive Plan.
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 7
(b) The area included in the proposed zoning amendment is
intended to be developed in the fashion that would be
allowed under the proposed new zoning.
(c) That the property, if designed and used as allowed in the
L-O District as it presently exists, and meets the
requirements set forth herein would be designed and
constructed to be harmonious with the surrounding area,
which is developed in the R-4 fashion.
(d) The L-O use would not be hazardous to the existing or
future uses of the neighborhood.
(e) L-O development would not create excessive additional
requirements at public cost for public facilities and
services and would not be detrimental to the economic
welfare of the community.
(f) The proposed use would not involve uses, activities,
processes, materials, equipment or conditions of
operation that would be detrimental to any person,
property or the general welfare of the area, however the
traffic would be increased more than it would be under R-
4 development.
(g) The property will be able to be adequately served with
public facilities, and connection to municipal sewer and
water is required.
(h) That a rezone would not result in the destruction, loss
or damage of any natural or scenic feature of major
importance.
(i) Development should not cause a significant increase in
vehicular traffic and should not interfere with
surrounding traffic patterns in that the property has
good street frontage.
(j) The proposed zoning amendment is in the best interest of
City of Meridian.
7. It is concluded that the comments, recommendation and
requirements of the Assistant to the City Engineer will have to be
met and complied with.
8. That the comments and requirements of the Planning and
Zoning Administrator shall be met and complied with, particularly
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 8
the requirement of a minimum 20 foot landscape setback and
submitting a detailed, scaled site plan showing all parking,
lighting, landscaping, drainage and utility hookups for review by
City staff prior to occupancy.
9. That proper and adequate access to the property is
available and will have to be maintained, with appropriate
buffering to residential properties and traffic on Cherry Lane.
10. That as a condition of granting this rezone, the
Applicant shall meet, perform, and comply with all of the
representations made in the Application, all documents submitted as
part of this Application, all representations made by the
Applicant, and Applicant's agents; that if the representations are
not met, performed, and complied with the property should be
rezoned to R-4; that as set forth in 11-2-416 J., violations of the
conditions of this rezone shall be, and are, violations of the
Zoning Ordinance, and may be violations of other ordinances of the
City of Meridian.
11. It is further concluded that the comments,
recommendations and requirements of the other governmental agencies
shall have to be met and complied with.
12. That all ordinances of the City of Meridian must be met,
including but not limited to, the Uniform Building Code, Uniform
Fire Code, Uniform Plumbing Code, Uniform Electrical Code, the Fire
and Life Safety Code, Mechanical Code, and all parking, lighting
and landscaping requirements, and the lighting shall be done so
that the adjacent residential structures are not effected.
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 9
•
9. That all requirements of these Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law shall be met, including entering into a
development agreement,. which shall address the comments and
concerns of City Staff, the representations of the Applicant and
its agents, and the Ordinances of the City of Meridian.
APPROVAL OF FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS
The Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of
Meridian hereby adopts and approves these Findings of Fact and
Conclusions.
ROLL CALL
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
CHAIRMAN JOHI
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OSLUND
SHEARER
MacCOY
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FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 10
DECISION
The Meridian City Planning and Zoning Commission hereby
recommends approval of this Rezone requested by the Applicant for
the property described in the application with the conditions set
forth in these Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and that the
property be required to meet the water and sewer requirements, the
fire and life safety codes, the Uniform Building Code, and other
Ordinances of the City of Meridian, including that all parking
areas shall be paved,.
MOTION: //~~/ ~ ,
APPROVEIY:Y~ DISAPPROVED:
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FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW-
WATKINS/STEWART --REZONE Page 11