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1982 01-25 Meridian City Hall - Special Fleeting lJ January 25, 19II2 Special Meeting called to order by Mayor Joseph L. Glaisyer at 7:35 P.P1. Councilmen present: Grant Kingsford; Bill Brewer; Rick Orton Jr.; Ron Tolsma Others Present: Pim Hoogland; Larry Sundell; Brian Smith; Michael Hill; John R. Hickman; Dale Bates; Deenis D. Sewald;Earl Ward; Coenraad Rbas; Bruce Stuart; Roger Welker; Skip Voss; Ray Sotero Brian Smith; Brian Smith and Associates: "Larry and I have been working with Sewald to put together some plans for the Creamery and we have a schematic model and I would like to take you through with what v;e intend to do. Larry and I are architects in a firm in Boise and we have had quite a lot to do with old buildings; Our most recent renovation is Main Street Market Place and we have also done the Hoff Building." "IJhat Dennis want's to do with the Creamery Building is turn it into a large active Farmer's Plarket and tie it in with community activities. The spaces, some are in fairly good condition and some are not, and over a period of time they would be developing it into a light processing or bulk produce - grains come in and are packaged and Dennis has a business where those are shipoed out to other buyers all over the country, and in some foreign countries. An d: to also, since that would occupy this area of the building (Smith points out diagraml) with warehousing here. That leaves us this major portion of the building which we would intend to develop with a central access - punch a hole right through these two buildings (points out diagram) leaving approximately equal areas on either side to be developed into spaces of varying uses and leased out to related businesses. Local produce would be bought in the morning and sold during the day, other activities would be planned. I think the key thing here is that the oroject would take place over a period of time and developed in stages. Ultimately we could see a restaurant use in the old boiler room which is a very exciting space. This initial building here, according to the original plans, has very nice trus work and if that old ceiling were taken out, would create a very nice, or very large space, for some larger use. It's anticipated that people from all over the Valley would come here to buy fresh produce, sellers would come here to sell and that we could make a very fine community asset out of it." 1~layor: "Any questions of Dennis or 6rian at this time?" Councilman Rick Orton: "In general, your plan calls fora lot of retail activity? You say people would come and buy the produce?" Sevaald: "I would say yes. When it's completed it would be a lot of retail. l~Je are basically wholesalers and will be the large user of the facility. We have about another 35,000 square feet that could be developed into retail.- so it's about 50/50." Orton: "That's a lot of retail. l~Jhere do you plan parking? Sewald: "About 100 cars on site {points out possible parking locations)" There was discussion concerning the location of the railway spur which is privately owned. Orton: "Can you give me any idea as to how this construction and development of this would proceed. In the first phase of initial construction what might you try to do?" Sewald: "tdurnber 1, we're trying to get our business into the facility.We are the majority of the user of the square footage there. Our business is Idaho Seed Company and 8io-Foods which is basically we do seed products and we do food products - the major portion of our program is packaging and processing - that's under an organic line. We don't deal with herbicides or pesticides. We do some commercial work as far as custom situation for other businesses, small packaying and so on. 6Je do handle under rail and we do handle under trucks so we have both of those flowing. We estimate about 10 to 15 new people from 61eridian for this facility - lJe already have a staff of five or six. The other businesses that could be plugged into this is distributors, or basically wholesalers, we would like to get maybe a small grocery in there on a year round basis. Some small businesses such as office space - there is a number of retail situations that could go in there. We would like to cater to Meridian - we don't feel we should try to attract the people from Boise. Of course a restaurant is a social affair and anybody will come 10 miles to a social function. We contract growers from Ontario to Idaho Falls that supply our business - majority of them are in the Meridian area." ~,, , City Council - Special Bio-Foods (Cont'd) ................ January 25, 19 Mike dill: "I do all the marketing for Bio Foods and Idaho Seed Company. I think the most stimulating thine. about this project is the influx of traffic and the accessability of population. The concept of a Farmers Market - being able to buy directly from a farmer, bring people into town and to this part of town - I would say that people are going to the north end of town and this would be some- thing to bring people into the center of town. So we are expecting a lot of people here locally, and around the surrounding areas, and users of•food - which all of us are - to come in to this store. We feel because of this facility is needing renovation we have taking steps on our blueprints to show how we will rectify that. To update the facility to where it would be an attraction, rather than a detraction, right now the facility is doing nothing and every year it will cost - no matter who it is - more money to renovate it or whatever needs to be done. 4;e're trying to build in some revenue in this area, it's a large enough facility to allow our concepts to fit our program, allows us to expand and bring in this type of traffic. I feel it will help stimulate the economy here, pay more taxes, hire people - these all add up. We are not trying to bring something in that will detract from the community - this is step one, we have plans to paint the facility and dress it up, we want it to have the appearance that people like to come to shop or see what is being done. This will fit our needs and we feel that what we are asking here and what we are trying to propose is something exciting in this area. There are other areas but this one is centrally located, we feel this area will grow - the population is moving this way. This is something for the future -this is long term, it is not set up for short term." Brian Smith: "You asked hpw long something like this takes, I think that is hard to say. As you know the development business these days is more difficult than it usually is. The Eighth Street P•1arket Place has been through three phases and that's taken us five years. We started with the first phase then we did the theaters, finished up the second phase and I would expect that this project would take at least that many, if not more. Some of the buildings are in very good condition and can be used right away, and in fact are being used by Dennis.. But here over (indicating on map) is in pretty poor condition. The intended use does not require a high degree of finisYi - sophisticated improvement. P1ost of this use is ground floor, hard surfaced floor covering, will have produce coming in and out and will be designed for a forklift to run through here with potatoes and so forth - so it will be designed to retain some of it's industrial character. At the same time we intend to use a nice landscaped area, (indicates drawing) trees and sort of a plaza for people to eat their lunch. There should be enough food in here to put together a lunch and sit here and eat. lJe are going to provide a drive-in portion where you can load up 50 lbs. of onions or whatever, we intend to have an outdoor market out here in front in the good season. The outdoor market would retract into the building, this center core as it turns out nicely skylighted. So it is likely that would occur over several phases. This is the phase we are working on right now (indicates dravaing) push this hole through here and we would elect to work on either this side or this side. It depends on what the particular interest is at that time, I know Dennis has had a lot of interest from people - some of it real and I suppose some of it imagined. All of the people we have talked to seem to be very excited about it. Economics probably wouldn't justify a more intense use of this building than this - Uses are limited. Structurally it looks like it's in good shape - the intended use fits the structure. This is a very realistic approach to putting this building back to useful situation." Carl Raasch: "I happen to be the owner of the property at the present time and I would like to clarify one point that has been brought out. The building, true enough in places, does need facelifting. Structurally it is sound and in very good condition. Let's relate to just the last few days the happenings of new buildings - here we have new architecture, new buildings, neva inspections and the roof of the bishop Kelley Library falls in - this one still stands. The structure is sound, granted it may need facelifting." Smith: "Cosmetically the building is really ragged but we propose re plastering most of the plastered surfaces and painting most of the brick to bring back a.uniform color; nice colorful awnings on all of the window openings; the detail of the building would be a bold stripe in dark greens in fairly subdued colors but would bring back ~ Meridian Cit Hall - Special Meeting .3. ~ Bio-Foods (Cont'd)......... a certain richness. That detail would continue around the whole complex and would beautify it. We would be adding this roof (designates drawing) a covered porch for the outdoor market to take place spring, summer and fall." Mayor Glaisyer: "Brian do you want to pick up from here and get down to the basics of our problem." Smith: "We've laid out our concepts of what we could do and basically we should get to some of the problems we have approached to get to this point." Dennis Sewald: "Basically what I am running into here is that I don't feel that the City of heridian is getting their fair share of what's going on here. It seems that when I go around the facilities and the businessmen in town and talk of my project they all seem to be behind me in one fashion or another. They can't under- stand why the delay or what you might call dragging the feet of the people that run the City. Now, I feel that I have presented the City with everything that's possible to present them with. This is just a portion of it - we have presented the City with several sets of blueprints on our ideas. I started this project the first week of November, it is .now the 25th of January and we still do not have a temporary for facility, a building permit, any conformation for the facility, I still do not have any help from the City Departments on this project. Now, I'm sure you know all the businessmen in the world are naturally a nervous type of bunch. So now I'm running into the City dragging their feet - people that finance a project such as this tend to wonder does the City really want this. Now T'm wondering the same thing and that's why I have asked for this meeting, to see if this is just one or two people's opinion or the City of PAeridian's opinion. When I get out into the public, they don't give me that opinion - but when Ideal with some of the City Officials I get this opinion. Surely you see I've went out of my way to present this in the best fashion that we know how. We are not Jack Simplot or any of that fact-similar, we are just local guys, you know farmers,and trying to build a business in agribusiness. We had several places to choose, City of Boise, heridian and Ontario. I felt Meridian was the best location and I still feel that way. Number one, we have a facility that can handle the growth of our business. Number two we have the labor force here that can handle it. They say Meridian needs business in their City. Basically we have to stop the bull and get to real things because I need everybody's help, not just part of your help. If you folk's aren't behind it, now is the time to tell me. I've spent $30,000 in less than 90 days in teridian and T'm not much closer to accomplishing my job in this loan. They have gone out of their way so the City officials here could drag their feet. I presented the last set of prints to them a week ago Monday and they said they had to digest it. I didn't know whether they had to eat it or what. Now it's a week later - I think it's time to come out and say the real things not just prolong it. Either the officials run the City or the people run the City - I'71 go which way they want to go. I've got to quit just hanging out at Meridian $hinking I'm going to do something. So, either get behind it or say "No, we don't want it". I didn't come into this town to cause a bunch of problems - I come into this town to create jobs and create a project and finish it out. lJe need to come down to some real hard thinking. The people I've talked to doesn't feel heridian can afford more businesses to slip away." Councilman Brewer: "The total magnitude of the project, and as exciting as it seems, I sit here somehow dumbfounded - I hadn't seen any of this. I had no idea what the total project was about. It seems like the cart has been before the horse." Sewald: "Basically I came into this and thought I should go through the normal chain of things, like anybody else - to see if it functioned. O. K., the re'sa breakdown because I had to call a special council meeting to get - here I am sitting with Insurance companies and bonding agents saying "hey, you better not be sitting in there unless you have a temporary permit or a permit, period." I said you are right about that, because insurance and my bonds doesn't cover me. "Well, why can't you get one- there shouldn't be any kind of problem, that doesn't really mean much, just states the facts and what you are trying to do." That's true too - this is what I'm trying to get answered. Yes, you should have known all about this, it's been presented. " Councilman Orton: "This is zoned correctly already, so normally,Bill,something like this where a building permit is all that's required, if it were to go smoothly, I ~ Meridian Cit -~ecial_Meetin .4. J. Bio-Foods (Cont'd) ......... don't think it would ever be seen by the Council, period." Brewer: "4Je11, we shouldn't have to. But still the total magnitude of this thing and I respect Carl and all here, that if I were going to put my bucks into that, by golly I would have been on this doorstep and come to the Council right-off. I can't believe that you have gone this far and never talked to me - or Grant." Sewald: O. K., now I have spoke to several of the Council members on this project. From the day I came into this town. I have other businesses to run too. Really, we have to take this in steps. I'm still talking about these two facilities Step one, and I have been since November 1. When we brought a City Council meeting I said we should tell them all the ideas, well you are going to bother all these people trying to get this one job done. This one job, we are presenting this, this is what we would like to do sometime down the future. Step 1 is actually my business here in these two facilities - I'm still trying to get a temporary. No. 1, when does a man get issued a temporary? My understanding of a temporary is 30 or 60 days to get all your things in order. Other peoples opinion of a temporary does not seem to go that route, such as the Building Inspector. Now, he is bent over backwards to make this as difficult as possible - not just a little out of his way, but over backwards. Now when I go to the people out here, they can't understand this - they can't under- stand why that problem is. That's why I'm here. I can't understand it either, when the people over here tell me they want it, why isn't the City officials following their wishes?" Councilman Brewer: "Again, back to the main point - I never realized there was a problem here until Dale Bates, a Senior Citizen in our town, came into my office and told me there was a problem. In all honesty I never knew there was a problem there and again, I think that falls back, maybe to a degree on the City, but I feel to a brief degree on you people for trying to bring this about and not making it more common knowledge. I would like to ask each of the Councilmen right now - have you seen this model? Have you heard anything about total plan? This is the point I'm trying to make. And I think it might make me more agreeable tonight, in being able to work with you on your initial part of it, if I had known anything at all on what was going on." Sewald: "In other words, you think we should go over these folks' heads, that run these positions in the City, and bother the City Council with these problems?" Brewer: "On a project with that magnitude - I would of. I don't like setting here tonight and finding out about this - it really upsets me." Sewald: "That's why we brought this meeting together -" Brewer: "It seems this is two months behind" Sewald: "Well, basically, maybe we are confusing the issue here. What I'm really after here is this use and this use -(Designating drawing) temporary permit- that is number one - that was what I was after. Since we are bringing all you folks together at one time - you couldn't have seen this because it never got done until yesterday. I don't want you to confuse this issue of this whole project over what we're really talking about - dragging the feet. I went to Mr. Schoen a half-dozen times and I got 30 stories every time. :dhat do you need Mr. Schoen - I present it and this isn't enough - I present it and this isn't enough - where does it end? I wasn't trying to go around any of the Council, I was open on this - I'm human and there is only so many people I can contact and to contact everybody I feel that we should all have gotten together to contact, I wasn't trying to hide anything from anybody." P1ayor Glaisyer: "O. K. anything else Dennis?" PJo response Councilman Tolsma: "The Sewer Superintendent, before tonight, has been trying to get a gallon per day effluent discharge. He has never come up with a figure on this - he said "somehwhere between 50,000 gallons and 5,000 gallons." Sewald: "The same day I talked with Joe, which was early in Povember, I went out and spoke with the Sewer Department. I gave him our gallons in usuage in that point of time, which is very minimal, O. K. a house usuage, on our particular business. Now when our whole facility is going that will probably change - but our particular use was given to him on that date. Plow the City has asked me for an electrical drawings of this facility, which they do not inspect, which I supplied. The State Electrical Inspector did not ask me for these, I asked him at our last meeting here "did he require feridian City Hall - Special Meeting .5. _~ January 25, 1982 Bio-Foods (Cont'd)......... these" - "No, he did not need them" - it stated right here on our blueprints "Built to Code". O. K.? Pretty simple. That was the last thing the City of Meridian has requested. Yes, I did tell the sewage man the exact gallons that we would use. At the first meeting with him. O.K.?" Councilman Tolsma: "How about the City water?" Sewald: "The City water? I spoke with the City too, City water, the same time. In fact, I think it is dated on the application the day I spoke with him. In other words "can we use the wells on the facility?" "PJo, it's a City ordinance that you can't use the wells for domestic use." Fine, O. K. - "how much water do you use?" And we gave fiim those numbers. The day the application was filled out - you would have to look on that application to find out that date. But yes, it was indicated- not in writing, it was verbally asked. I will be more than happy to indicate it in writing. That's what I worked on this whole 30 to 60 day period over, trying to talk to everybody I could talk to about this project. And I did miss some, I'm sure." Earl ldard, tJasteWater Superintendent: "I would like to address that. Sewald did come out and see me and ask me some specific questions. I did request, in writing, a background of the process that you were using at the present time. This was not received - I did not get that. 'We did discuss the wells, the monitoring of the effluent and that's really the extent of the information other than from Mr. Sundell who called me and indicated that it would be from 6 to 8 thousand gallons per day with 2 lbs. of silt. And from what you and I had discussed, this is completely different - you were looking at possibly 50,000 gallons a day, we were trying to come up with how much silt you would have and if you remember we discussed the size, or the type of equipment - I never got a list of the equipment, I have no idea..." Sewald: "And you asked at that time fora written...?" Ward: "Yes" "And a past performance or operational reports of some kind - not necessarily very detailed - but you have not supplied me anything. It makes it very difficult determining the sewer use because we haven't even covered the water metering - whether it is water metered off the wells or City system or the effluent discharge. That is one of the problems." Sewald: "Well, I don't normally misunderstand people when I put a project together of this magnitude." Ward: "I thought we had things pretty specific." Sewald: "There is a lot of difference between 50,000 gallons and 6,000 gallons that the architects..." Ward: "There certainly is and this is what we should get resolved." Sewald: "It would be 6,000 gallons per day" Ward: ""O. K. 6,000 and as far as 2 lbs. a day of silt - is that on the volumn?" Sewald: "2 lbs. of silt per 6,0000 gallons. So now you have those two numbers. Anything else?" 4Jard: "We would like to know the type of equipment that's going in and the size they are capable of. I was asked to indicate a silt trap - for what it's hard to say.. I can't hardly give a determination if I don't know the ultimate use." Sewald: "Are there anymore questions we should get answered here?" Councilman Orton: "We have got to keep in mind what the issue is here, and that's to get this gentlemen a building permit - -" Sewald: "An occupancy permit - in other words that is what fqr. Schoen has indicated to me - that I must have this. Is that true or not true?" Orton: "What's our process - we get plans and when their approvable they are approved and issue a permit?" Vern Schoen, Building Inspector: "And after that and completion there is an Occupancy permit." Orton: "Is there anyway we can give him an Occupancy permit fora portion?" Schoen: "Yes, a Temporary Occupancy slip, which I suggested to Joe, which is for the office area only, there was no heat in it so it didn't begin to comply until we had a plan for it." Sewald: "There's no law that we have to supply heat." Orton: "Do they have to supply heat, or if they want to work in the cold....? ,<..~ Meridian City Hall -~cial Meeting .6. i January 25 1982 Bio-Foods (Cont'd)...... Sewald: "I didn't say anywhere in the laws that it .. " Schoen: "Under the Codes it goes right under the heat laws, all the exits and everything else - you didn't have the proper exits either.." Sewald: "Are we're talking about exits or heat?" Schoen: "Both" Sewald and Orton began speaking at the same time. Orton: "Excuse me, you are going to have to let me talk. Vern, on a Temporary Building Permit, does he have to be coming - for the area he is going to be on Temporary Occupancy - does he have to come into all conformance of Code in all categories?" Schoen: "Yes, if you were to take a building that was under new construction and you got a portion of it done - then you get a temporary permit for that portion. Once you take an .old one and want to remodel the entire thing and they have one building, they get a permit for the whole thing. They get this one portion done, maybe that's the only permit they had.. Then when that's ready - they move in and according to Code a Temporary Certificate would be issued for that part only. Not a temporary to go ahead and do the work in a building where they do not have a permit because when .all things finally come together, if they went ahead, we may have to make them completely change something on the final plan. Then of course you would be doing them unjustice, me unjustice or anybody else because of all the backtracking you would have to do. You would have to move machinery, remove some of their wiring - so you have to wait, especially when there is any type of extensive remodeling". Councilman Orton: "So the Temporary Permit for the office space, you would have to require them to bring that portion of the building up to Code and then before they could begin activities in the remainder of the space, it would have to be brought up to Codes." Schoen: "Right" Orton: "O. K. I would like to make a general comment here. I think that the reason there has been trouble is not because people have not be stalling to make your life rough, because they have neen bending over backwards trying to help you - there has been a lot of miscommunication going on here. When Vern, Earl or Bruce, whoever has been involved, trys to describe one of your problems to you I believe you're taking that as your only problem. It's not - you are finding out - a doorway in a wrong place in addition to the heating being out, there might be an explosion proof problem a ventilation problem in a particular area. In Earl's case, he asked you for the flows and then he asked for more information to help you out - they are doing that because they want to help you not because they want to hurt you. Let's get this thing .streamlined first by the three Departments - Water, Sewer and the Building Code Department. First thing I would like to see is those three people write a letter based on the current plans that has been delivered to us, naming the deficiencies That way we are out of the verbal mold - will be in a written mold and can start nailing these things down one at a time. I ask all three gentlemen to look at their ordinances and don't go beyond their ordinances. Get those requirements straightened out, I don't think we should go anyplace until we get that done - once we know what the deficiencies are and current plans, and there are deficiencie; then this gentlemen will know how to proceed. Let's do it with two things in mind. One, what do they have to do to get the Temporary Permit and Second, what has to be done for them to proceed with the remodel of the first phase, or what additional information do you need from these gentlemen in order to even make a decision. If you don't believe that you know everything that they intend to do in this first phase - then ask that in a letter. There may be further requirements based on what they find out. And one last thing I would like to say here, this concerns me a great deal because I've made these mistakes - I'm a practicing engineer myself - when I get out civil engineering matters in some other engineering matters that I'm not familiar with the Code on, I misinterpret it quite frequently and I want to ask these architects-if in light of industrial equipment you have it in perhaps this set of plans overlooked some things. Let me give you an example - I understand that there is a hulling machine in one of the operations. Under the Fire Code it calls for explosion proof wiring, explosion proof electrical devices in the room.:'." Smith: "Correct" Orton: "Vern pulled out the plans and was telling me about this and I looked at them... I couldn't see where you had shown the ventilation, the explosion proof wiring - how did you intend to take care of this?" Brian Smith: "We got involved with this probably about a month ago. Initially it was my understanding that Dennis (Sewald) had an existing business that he had essentially closed and he was moving up to this facility. As long as he closed, his business is ~s'• .! Meridian Ci 1 - Special Meeting .7. Bio-Foods (Cont'd)......... closed - he is very anxious to get in there and start getting set up and get this thing rolling. Initially he wanted to occupy an existing situation which was the offices - just move in the stuff he was bringing up from Burley. In the meantime it was clear that a certain plan had to be arrived at -while he was moving up here occupying .this building, it was,not clear to him whether he would able to occupy the building at that time. To locate these various pieces of equipment in here, so they would perform their operation, there seems to be some room for interpretation as to what this equipment actually does and what classification of use they would fall under. It seems like there is no question about any complexity with regard to use, whether to just bolt it down and turn it on - except for the one hulling machine that you mentioned. When we first came here to the City and met with the Building Inspector, we discussed that use and we arrived at some agreement that we were going to classify it as a "FI-4, H-3 Occupant" ~vhich required an enclosure basically industrial wiring. There was a complex issue as to how to get the hyster in and out of it and still render it with it's proper fire rating. I think why Dennis get's frustrated is that he still not really able to occupy the office space and move his desk in. I don't think you find anyplace in the building code vahere it requires any space other than residential bedrooms to have heat. A Warehouse doesn't require it - an office doesn't require heat. In doing these projects maybe we are just used to different situations but it takes cooperation. Some willingness on the officials part - to get in and help to unravel this mess and allow something to happen - something to begin. Not that any Code should be violated but it's not practical when a man is waiting to set up his equipment for packaging carrots, which are not hazardous in any means. 11e needs to move them out the door to meet his commitments and meet his terms of delivery and he's also got product coming. And yet this entire thing has just stuck until absolutely all questions are answered. We offered to post a bond as say "look, let's get going on the rest of this, we could go in there and get v~ired and moved in, get them some heat, put some carpet down, connect the phones, get some water to the project - and we will work with you on this and arrive at a satisfactory conclusion to a enclosure for this hulling machine. I don't know much about a hulling machine, it comes from Switzerland, a great expense - when we asked Dennis about this machine and the dust nature, he stated that it's not dusty at all, it is all enclosed and works with a vacuum and so forth. H!e took some time to educate all of us about the potential hazard of this machine. I don't know if it's really clear to anybody the hazardous situation this machine creates. But Dennis has been willing to go along, go by the book, I will use Class 2 wiring, I will enclose it and bring my hyster in from outside rather than inside. Part of the frustration is that the entire thing has been held up because of some questions that our client has been willing to work out with the City." "Correct me if I'm wrong Vern, but a termporary occupancy permit would allow occupancy - I don't think there is any such thing as a temporary building permit, for instance in this office area there's no remodeling really intended - it is only in light of the entire operation that brings up some question. It's not clear to me and I would have to look back in the Code to find out wYien a building permit is required for just occupancy -would he be allowed to occupy this existing building. This is two questions we are asking now." Sewald: "O. K., now I want to state right here - all of the prints and plans that the City has requested, even though they didn't do some of the testing or the inspections of it, have been handed in a week ago today. And we still have no word on a temporary or a occupancy, we have nothing. No more than we had when we started in November. We're still sitting here without a temporary even." Vern Schoen, Bldg. Inspector: "First time I just received a sketch of the initial building as it is, the second set of plans received was on 1.19.II2, which is approximately a month ago. All the plans, the rest of the week,for myself are red- lined completely and ready to go for the entire building. The normal procedure is that when those plans come in there is four (4) sets. I give one to Earl, one to Bruce, one to the Fire Department and when these are ready,come back to me- then we can back to what has to be done. t~!ith that so far, I have a letter from the fire Department with their request outlined. I have the plan redlined to my extent. As I understand it is not complete enough for Earl to go ahead and say O. K. on his part. r~ P4eridian City Hall - Special Meeting .8. January 25, 1982 Bio-Foods (Cont'd) .......... This is where it stands. ble have proceeded as we are supposed to proceed. If it is not acceptable it goes back and has to be redrawn to these redline marks, to the request of Earl, to the request of the fire Department, Public Works - then it comes back and will be issued a permit." Sewald: "When do you issue a temporary?" Schoen: "!Jo temporary under those circumstances until it's complete." Orton: "Until what's complete Vern?" Schoen: "Any portion of it. They complete the office first under the remodel and then the temporary is for that part only.." Orton: "What if their remodel doesn't involve any remodeling in the office." Schoen: "It does involve remodeling." Sewald: "How do you go about getting this done?" Schoen: "tdith a plan - we're that close for a complete thing and you are ready to go". Brian Smith: "If Dennis didn't have any plans to build anything a building permit wouldn't be required. Would a occupancy certificate be required?" Schoen: (indicates Sewald: "How do we get that?" yes) Schoen: "Come to the Building Inspector, he goes out and makes the inspection and if your occupancy fits the particular building, an occupancy slip can be issued. 4!hen you change your occupancy is when the trouble starts. In other words, if you have an office goes out and another one moves in - he wants to be an office, it's the same. If an office as an insurance company goes out and if you want to move a spray booth in there - there's a problem." Brian Smith: "Then would the occupancy of the intended use of all the spaces other than the hulling machine, doesn't really change the use from what it was previously- Doesn't really require any construction, to speak of?" Schoen: "The creamery itself would have not been a H-3 by any means." Smith: "I'm talking of the office space that we intend to use for bagging machines." Schoen: "The Code book says "if it needs to be remodeled then that has to be done to bring it up to Code. You change occupancy, it has to be brought up to Code. Brian Smith: "Are we in fact changing occupancy except for the hulling machine?" Schoen: "You're not changing office occupancy? iJhen you change occupancy it's a olderly building it has to be brought to Code." Orton: "So on the new occupancy it has to be brought to Code even though the use in that portion....?" Schoen: "That's right" Orton: "In the temporary office - in the office area where the gentlemen wants a temporary permit - what's your interpretation Vern, what needs to be done?" Schoen: "Stairway, Exit lights and heat" Sewald: "I'll debate the Yieat. In other words, if it states that - I'll go along with it." Orton: If he handed in a plan to take care of those three things.." Schoen: "If they want a temporary permit on that portion only - there is also a plan for all the rest of it." Sewald: "lde've asked fora temporary building permit just on the office." P4ayor Glaisyer: "As far as the office is concerned Vern, do you have a heating - in other words, I think the heating is in question.." Schoen: "The only thing they show is a furnace - like I say it's a very short set, but yes, they do show the furnace." Sewald: "Do we show the electrical?" Schoen: "You do not show the exit signs..." Brian Smith: "There is a couple of issues that are being confused somewhat. The issue of occupancy and the issue of changing the use. We have been in situations - I don't know if it's by the letter, by the Code or by the City Ordinance - but occupancies have been allowed in buildings that are intending of being renovated where the use isn't really changing. TFiere are many, many buildings, including the State Capital that doesn't meet Code but yet it is occupied. I think because some- times buildings become vacant and maybe the building department might have had a previous bad experience, they ma;~ take a standback attitude .right from the start. I Meridian C Bio-Foods 1 = ~ecial_hteeting .9. January 25, 1 (Cont'd)....... We have not been instructed by our client to see how much we can get away with. lJe can all walk over there and see how hazardous the situation is. It's a subject for occupancy, we are required to have two exits when the occupancy goes above 10 people, there is in fact three people occupying that space. But it also states that if the floor space goes over 500 sq. feet it requires two exits - so that's where we get stuck again. We're in catch-twenty-two, because where do we put the exit? Do we just scab on a second stair coming off the side, do we take our time to develop the overall plan to decide where our second exit really needs to be to serve other areas of the building, it would by very nice to tie both of those sections together. Dennis is waiting - all he want's to do is bag carrots. I think there is two issues. One is occulancy, one is remodeling and new occupancy under new uses." F1ike Hill: "I think this is a lot on interpretation, who want's to interpret the way they want to interpret it and .the willingness to work it out. Also> as a tax- payer,you as public officials are obligated td keep me informed on what's happening. for example, if there was a problem why weren't they all laid out to begin with? Why weren't they written out, how come we had to go through all these different steps? It costs money to do this. I feel as a taxpayer you owe me an obligation also to help me get into this thing. Not to suppress it. If there's problems let's sit down and work it out. I've been thinking about, maybe you weren't spoke to - from day one vae have been trying to go through the normal steps. That's why you hired Vern Schoen, if you didn't hire him and we just come to you, then what are you paying him for? Going through the proper channels and now we are being somewhat condemned for not going around him. These additional steps are put out because this is what needed if we're going to bother you. To get these temporaries and things we had to draw up this big model to show you for your benefit, because it had to get to this point. L•le tried to work with it at a proper step and it didn't work. lJe are not able to do anything - vae are businessmen, you as businessmen should be able to understand that. It's a serious problem and that's why this meeting got to this point. We didn't come in here to cause waves, we are coming in here to stimulate economy and help build up this community. I will personally apoligize if you feel we should have come around the backdoor. I thought as a taxpayer that is why we pay this gentlemen. Personally,I think there is a few things that need to be changed on cooperation 6Jhy can't we expect Vern to give us cooperation? I think by the way, for example, he is paid - it doesn't allow to be unbiased. He's paid on commission." Mayor Glaisyer: "Now, let's be careful where you tread water." (-like Hill: "I'll retract that and not say anymore about it." 'tlayor Glaisyer: "We run the City, we're not worried about people's salary for one thing - the second thing, we are responsible for safety and health of everybody in this community - not just one business. You go in there and not have exits and people are in there and they are hurt, we are responsible - we are personally liable. We have a Volunteer Fire Department, maybe we are a little bit stringent on our Codes. That's why the man's being paid and he's always done a good job - and I will defend that right down to the end." Mike Hill: "I don't dispute that, I just feel that for all the blueprints that were handed in..." P1ayor Glaisyer: "He's doing his job, he brings it to us in his strictest sense and if we want to make changes it's our decision - not Vern Schoen's decision." Councilman Grant Kingsford: "I think part of the problem here is that people are pointing a finger and saying "it's your fault". Let's get into the spirit of cooperation both ways. It's my understanding, from this discussion, that there has been many sets of plans. Yet, I talk to Vern and I hear that there has been a rough set of plans turned in and then a two page set. lJhat other plans have been turned in?" Larry Sundell: "There has been three different sets. The first set was under the assumption that if we showed what we vae re going to do with the project we would be granted a temporary permit. After that, it didn't go through and we made one more set designating the whole area, the third set was established, which was a complete Meridian City Hall - Special Meeting .10. ___`__~ January 25, 1882 Bio-Foods (Cont'd)........- set for the total project and put in to the Building Inspector for the building permit. It was my understanding that the last set would be complete. So, there was three sets." Councilman Kingsford: "Did all three of them get turned in? To us?" Sundell: "I am only certain of the second one." Kingsford: "So, in fact, we have had two sets?" Sewald (?): "Three presented, two sets accepted." Kingsford: "Has anybody from the City ever seen the second set? It's been my understanding that we have had two. Let's get our numbers straight." Vern Schoen: "This set that I have has the added drawings on the second page and has the added drawings of the inside wall, which makes it the third set if you want to call it that." Kingsford: "So you have two sets?" Schoen: "Tvao sets." Sewald (?): "So in other words, you wanted a detailed drawing of the fire escape?" Schoen: "Come back in, went back to them and come back in again." Kingsford: "I've heard talk about an electrical set that has been required - where is the electrical set?" Schoen: "It's with this." Sewald (?): "The State Electrical didn't require a set - the Fire Department did." Fire Chief, Roger 4lelker: "The Fire Codes the City operates under requires for protection that we have an electrical plans. It can be bypassed by the City Council but it is required." Sewald (?): "This is what I'm getting at. If I'm required to do this, why wasn't I told when I presented the second set that I was required to do this? lJhy was I not told the first time I met with Vern Schoen?" Iingsford: "That's another point I want to get at. I understand each time we have talked - I don't know how many times - I would like to know how many times you have had conversations with our Departments - I understand each time you have talked with them, different things have been discussed - additions made that would change what would have been required." Sewald (?): "Yes" Kingsford: "Pow, if that's the case, I don't know how you could point a finger at theirs and say it's their fault - you didn't give the information all out front - how could they make an adequate...?" "Vern, you respond to that." Vern Schoen: "Again, it has to go back to them because there were no electrical drawings on emergency lighting on the Fire Departments requirements - they are still not on there." Brian Smith: "I would ask the Building Inspector to find in the Code whereilluminated exits are required." Ray Voss, Fire Marshal: "Illuminated exit signs may not be required but emergency lighting is required and to be shown on the plans, if it is not shown on the plans there is no emergency lighting. Fire Safety Code 101 will give you this information." Councilman Orton: "This Council has adopted uniform codes in time Skip, have we adopted that Code?" Voss: "Yes." Orton: "Are you aware of that Code gentlemen?" (?) "Yes" Sevaald (?): "Really what I'm getting at - when I came here and started this project, I touched all these bases -"look, give me everything that you need" - which I thought I had. I went out to my people and I did it,I presented it and it wasn't right." • ridian Citv Hall - Special fleeti Bio-Foods (Cont'd)....... 11. 25, 1 Councilman Y.ingsford: "Was anything written down? The thing to do is write things down that you want to do - I would have written answers back for what it takes - and there's no confusion. It's been my experience before that is what has been the order of what happens." Sewald: "Yes - it seems to 6e kind of wishy~washy doesn't it?" Kingsforf; "Wishy-washy? That sounds like you're pointing your finger again - did you write the thinos down that you wanted done?" Sewald: "No, I wish I had a tape recorder - I needed that." Kingsford: "Either that - or some sort of written....." Sewald: "This is a fine example. The electrical layout - why didn't I know that? I needed that right at the beginning - lJhy did I find out I needed that the third or fourth meeting?" Kingsford: "Flow many meetings have you had with the Departments?" Vern Schoen: "I've met with him a couple of times myself." Kingsford: "That doesn't sound like four meetings to me. I would hardly say that two is several." Sewald: "How many times did we meet with you, Schoen?" Schoen: "one time on this room and I would say other than that I've met with you....." Sewald: "So, that's about three times with me...." Schoen: "I can't answer that exact.." Sewald: "lJould you say at least three times?" Schoen: "Just you" Sewald: "How many times did you meet with my architects that you recall?" Schoen: "About three - not with the prints that you filed." Coenraad Abas, Valley News: "Is this a Court Room?" Sewald: "l~~hat we're tryiny to get at is that we are being led around." Councilman Kingsford: "We've been getting the run-around too. 41e've got to get our ducks in order. I don't think anybody here is opposed to you putting that in." Sewald: "You have one that is opposed to it now" Brian Smith: "Dennis is trying to get a temporary occupancy permit and his other desire is to get a building permit. We're generally familiar with the Codes - each situation is different, we have to get back into it when you talk with a new City - we haven't done much work in feridian and some occupancies which are generally un- familiar to Larry and myself, different type uses - we have been working very hard to work these things out and have made some progress in the last two weeks and fully well intend to complete that process. But we are sti11 looking fora temporary occupancy permit." Dale Bates, Citizen: "I was on the City Council thirty-five years ago - before they had that Code book and I wonder why they have it now. I can see where it would be almost impossible for a building to get fixed up to get back into business. I stumbled into this deal after I talked to Carl (Raasch) and he told me I would have to talk to these boys on the rental of the boiler room down there. When they told me the trouble they were having, I was the one that suggested that they come to the Council. I said I don't think the Council knows what's going on here - I'm sure you didn't. I was sure you didn't because I got a little run-around myself and I had to come to you boys and get help. I think this is a great thing. In fact, I remember back thirty-five years ago, probably Roger is the only one here that can remember it- when the old Meridian Sale Barn was up by the Pia sonic Temple is now - these produce dealers used to come in there with their pickups, line up around the block and people would come from miles to this sale for the sole purpose of buying fresh produce. When they told me they were thinking of a Farmers F1arket, I thought this was certainly a good thing for the City. I don't know where the trouble is - you say you're running the City then I feel like you should know more about what's going on here. There's a lack of communication somewhere. I can't see setting on the City Council and a thing this big, being at one end of your office, and not know a thing about it. From a taxpayers standpoint, I'm very interested in getting in new business especially C 11 - Special Meeting .12. ~ Bio-Foods (Cont'd)....... of this size. ..because i think it will benefit all taxpayers. I don't think we should be here holding everything to Code if there is a chance of getting this in here - let's get it in here. I would like to see this thing open up and go - I realize you have codes you've got to live with, but I'm wondering if there are some of these that aren't a little overboard. T think maybe they are. I would almost bet you that there isn't 10% of the buildings in Meridian, if you go right down the street, that would pass code. This building right here wouldn't - you could get right at it. it seems to me that you are expecting these boys to put that building in shape as they would if they were putting up a brand new building.. I think the cost is prohibitive for them to go in and ever bring that thing up like a new building. I've seen that set for 10 to 15 years now and it seems a shame that big of facility can't be turned into something worthwhile. I'd like to see it 90." Carl Raasch: "Naturally, I too would like to see a good facility 9o in and I think this is a good facility for the City of Meridian. It shows employment, part of the people in town, and here again I will agree with Dale that upon some occasions you need to close your eyes and some of the regulations that is written in the book is simply from the Government. I can't believe that it's all that necessary. Particularly some of the Fire Codes, or whatever - there's probably been more heat come out of that boiler room than any building in this town - it still stands. I only want your cooperation from the City Council and would like to see 100% of the City Council tonight issue Dennis a building permit and an occupancy permit and let him go ahead with the project." John Hickman: "I work fora company out of Salt Lake City, conveyors and equipment, and from this point - from observing all of this - there seems to be some quandry going on, and alt of this is hinging on, the hulling machine that Dennis has. I think being fair to Dennis' situation, being around the country like I am, going into different plant areas, Algamated Sugar is one. Example, the dust problem they have is a pulp drying.Numerous different feed stores, like ZamZow's - I'm under the impression they manufacture cattle feed, whatnot - but what I'm saying is this, if you used the machine and seen the amount of dust it put's off, and if not I would suggest you do so in light of the fact the explosion potential you're talking about in that size of building and that one machine is very limited. I've seen it operate, I'm familiar with the amount of dust that go on in these plants. Dennis' situation is unique as he has only got this one machine that's going to be really doing this. He has a control air system and is aspirated to blow off the dust and return it to a collection bin. This is a general accepted practice for hazardous materials of this type. I cite Purina-Ralstin Company, most of your large manufacturers that deal in flours, grain products, etc. that have this problem are using air aspiration to remove the potential hazard of the explosion - cite me if I'm wrong - you've got to have a combination of several things. Atmospheric pressure, humidity, concentration of dust particles all contribute to this. Initially you can have a spontaneous combustion or explosion - it might be caused by a spark or something. I don't under- stand what the big problem is on this.- he's got an air aspiration system on his hulling machine is removing, I would say probably, 98% of the dust that is a residue from his milling process. There's equipment on the market than can update his air aspiration system on that one particular hulling machine and double it's efficiency to remove dirt in the air down to a micron particle size. A micron is the equivalent of 1 millionth particle size of a meter. Now, if the big problem is with the explosive potential I think if you could see the machine work, what's happening with it, where the dust is coming from, where it's going, how it's handled and what's been done to update this you could probably smooth over some of the problems you're having with this on the side. It seems to me I've heard it brought up three or four times the fact that this hulling machine is giving you whatever your code- H-3, H-4 hazardous explosion. You've got a bunch of problems all on top of this one item. Seer~is that your code goes up - it requires this, requires this - all because of this one machine. At the present time he can't run the machine, you guys won't see fit to let him have his building permit - occupancy permit - fine. If this is a big problem with the one machine I see no reason why it can't be off to the side. If you guys would like to - I'm sure it can be arranged, with the permission of your building inspector, to see this machine operate at least fora few minutes to see what kind of residue and particles come off from it. You can evaluate it further Pleridian City Hall - Special Meeting .13. January 25, 1962 Bio-Foods (Cont'd) ........ from that for explosive potential. I would think that if they have come up with some kind of explosive proof containment for this machine, I really can't see what the problem would be with it. If it's hinging the rest of his building project on that one machine, I think it would be valuable for you, as a Task Force, to take a look at it and see what it actually does." Playor Glaisyer: "Thank you for your dissertation. I would like to bring the Council up to date -and Larry, or Brian, if I'm wrong please interrupt me - but we have met and already discussed these things. The discussion was,when I met with them,that ttie first thing was to try and get a temporary occupancy permit for the office building. At the time we were discussing this machine I told Larry, Brian, and Dennis that no one knows what the machine is going to do, I said we will come at that point to the Council, get a variance, put you in there with the machine, for X amount of time, make observations from the building department, fire department and at that time if we felt it was necessary to put in all the fire codes, etc. ,we would require at that time, if not we would make a variance. Is that correct?" The response was "That's correct." Piayor Glaisyer: "All this stuff has been hashed over. Let's get back to the point of what we have to do to give these gentlemen a temporary occupancy permit for the business office only. Then he is going to bring in these other things and keep moving on in the phases. All this stuff about the City not cooperating is not necessarily true, we got some breakdowns over here, everybody has an opinion of what we've done wrong - and we haven't done that much wrong. I want to get them in their business office. That's where we are - thats the essence at this time. Then they will come back to Vern-and.. we will no from there." Vern Schoen: "I don't thinl; their problem is with machines as with loading. This is not the normal way these machines are filled. He has hopper filling - that is the dust problem, not the machine itself." Councilman Orton: "That may be very well the case Brian. I think you are right Joe. How do we give them a temporary permit. Vern was kind enough to dig the UBC out and hand it to me a±.d gives here how we give a temporary occupancy permit, and i 'll .just read it as I think it's important here. "If the building officials find that no substantial hazard will result from occupancy of any building or portion tnereof before completion is complete he may issue temporary certificate for the use of portion, or portions, of the building where structure prior to completion of the entire building or structure." That means if we believe it's safe to allow a temporary permit then we can allow it. It says the "building official" but of course I interpret that as we are the governing body - if we feel there's no hazard in that office we can allow the permit and maybe negotiate a few things with Vern and talk to him to see if he feels it is really unsafe. Let's look at the building. First of all, it has been occupied for office space in that manner in the past without significant hazard. The only three things that are require to bring it up to Code is a furnace - I frankly don't think it's unsafe without a furnace, it might be uncomfortable but it's not unsafe -another exit and emergency lighting. Again, if the number of people is limited three or four - four or five even- I can't believe that the thing's not safe. I'd like to see the Council offer the gentlemen a temporary occupancy certificate good for - just throw out a number - 60 days with a condition that in maybe two days we will have our four letters varitten, the Fire Department, Water Department, Sewer Department and Building Code - we'll have our letters out in a couple of days, and then in this 60 day period you would be required to bring your plans completely up to our standards - and that isn't to say we won't have another few questions after you bring it up to these comments, if you misinterpreted something or if we made a mistake and didn't observe something the first time through - I'm not saying it's going to work perfect. That way you can get into it, there would timely completion of the plans - 60 days from this time. And we can all go home tonight - I've already missed the Notre Dame game." Sewald: "0.1:. This is basically what we have trying to get done, since I started. Second of all, we needed to have our temporary honored up to the point of this huller. In other words, all of this other machinery is supposedly alright - that's what they indicated to me. I'Jow, this huller situation - I can hold off on this huller and n City Hall - Special f4eeting .14. Bio-Foods (Cony) ..... I thought we could out it up and you could come over and visually look, and then could make arrangements. fJone of these plans seem to work until all of these plans were presented, in detail. So, in other words - I would like a temporary occupancy on my warehouse too. I feel my architects have presented everything that was last requested by the City. Now I feel the City owes me an obligation to telling me what they really do need. Not telling every trip I come up. 6•Jhy can't they tell me everything I need at the beginning? Or give me the law - it took me two trips just to get the law. All the other departments work very closely with me and I thought I had answered all the questions. This is one department that I can't seem to get all the questions answered. I've worked very hard at it for close to 90 days. I feel I need more than ,just a temporary in the office." Councilman Orton: "Have you discussed anything besides the office fora temporary permit?" Sewald: "No" f•layor Glaisyer: "They had the office first and then they were going to come back in with their plans as far as the rest of it and then we would issue temporary on that, watching the machine - I think specifically the machine only." Sewald(?): "Joe said when we presented the blueprints then you would issue the temporary on the balance. In other words, the office was right there, supposedly done that next morning. I came over, it wasn't - forget it. Wow when I present the rest of the blueprints, detailed drawings of electrical that we're speaking of - which has already been presented - we were going to get a temporary on the balance - which I have not got." Mayor Glaisyer: "Wait a minute on that - when I went over, I came back and talked to Vern and I said "Vern, what do you have to do to get a temporary permit for the office" and he said he wanted plan of the fire escape, I believe. And I called Larry and told Larry to get ahold of Vern and find what you have to have, get it in to him and Vern said he would issue a permit. Isn't that correct?" Larry: "That's correct - we did that." Sewald: "And didn't you say at the same time that when we presented the clans on the rest of the warehouse you would issue a temporary at that point?" F<layor Glaisyer: "4~hen the plans are in and approved upon." Councilman Orton: "That's basically what I said - that's what I wanted to do." "Approve a temporary on the office right now and give them 60 .days to get their plans..." Sewald (?): "The plans are in Rick" Orton: "The plans are notapprovable fashion - frankly, they are not in a approvable fashion now -there are no questions, legitimate questions at this ooint, that I've heard that vaould make them approvable." Councilman Tolsma: "Couldn't he put a time frame of 48 hours for all the City Departments to come up with a letter to explain what tYiey wanted on the other plan?" Orton: "That's what I think should be done." tlayor Glaisyer: "No, that was not done. And obviously this is Dennis fault because when we were communicating things were changing curing communications - that chan!led part of the building code - now we have to do this. I think it is both at fault. The City is not going to take the blame for all of it. Get back again - we know it has to be done for the business office. Either you are going to give him a time schedule to put the stairway in - if you're going to put the stairway in- or if you are going to give variances to what Vern said - then you have to do that tonight. For the business office itself." Councilman Orton: "I would like to put a flotion on the floor that the Council offer a temporary occupancy permit for the office space for up to five (6) employees and that the space has to be brought un to Code within ninety (90) days." Councilman Tolsma: "I'd like to question the Motion. When the architect said, about the outside fire escape incorporated later on into the final building plan used on the three story along with the two story addition - you want to see that just put in any place - or could he incorporate it when he brought in plans later on the rest of the building?" I P•te Bio-Foods (Cont'd)........ 15 Janua 25, 1982 Councilman Orton: "Under my Piotion it was my intent to allow in ninety (90) days to either construct a satisfactory exit or bring a plan for constructing to get approved so he would have further time to get it in if he wants to wait a little longer to get it in that three story." Sewald: "What I could do is have a safety fire escape on the inside, the kind you put on the inside of the windows and throw out in case something happens." Councilman Orton: "That would be nice - that was not part of my motion." Sewald: "I am willing to do this - I have always been more than willing to do these things. Anything to make it less hazardous for a person I would prefer doing. I've never tried to shun that responsibility." Councilman Ron Tolsma: "I'll second the P1otion." Mayor: "Question." "Would that bring it up to Code though - you said "up to Code" or the plan - so that's not going to leave..." Councilman Orton: "When I said "bring it up to Code" what I really intend for them to do is the actual physical construction or be back in here with a set of plans, or plan, approved and that takes care of the second exit. So if he came in in eighty-nine (89) days, the. plan. that showed the second exit to be built at some other place, but acceptable under the code - we approved it on the 89th day for construction and then another 30 days - then he would in effect get his extension." Sewald (?): "I think we have already put one in - maybe I'm wrong." Mike Hill(?): "I think you, yourselves have the power to decide- is this something necessary or do you feel it is not orIs this throw over ladder sufficient. We really eventually will have to build a new stairway." Councilman Orton: "fly Motion still hasn't bypassed any part of the Uniform Building Code - I simply moved to allow you a temporary occupancy permit to come into compliance with the Code or produce a plan, a approved plan, - it does need to comply with the Code." Vern Schoen: "In regard to the comment, the reason the stairway was added is because the floor space calls for it. Also we were told that there would be around twenty (20) people hired." Mayor Glaisyer: The f4otion has been made and seconded to approve a temporary occupancy -~ ~ permit in the amount of ninety (90) days and that no more than five (5) employees will occupy the area, and that within the 90 days either an exit would be provided that meets code or an approved plan that meets all codes for the occupancy of the business office." "All in favor?" P1otion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Orton, yea; Tolsma, yea; Brewer, yea Mayor Glaisyer: "Vern, you will issue them a temporary tomorrow." "Now as far as the other section is concerned - you have all those plans I take it?" Schoen: "I have red-marked all of my part of it - I'm waiting for the rest of the Departments." Mayor Glaisyer: "lJhy don't we get the rest of the Departments in, write a letter back to Dennis, in writing, and say this is what the plans are written up for and that's what you do to .get your temporary." "I mean building permits,"not temporary." Councilman Orton: "If we were disposed to give a temporary occupancy permit on another portion of the building, that is this area where the hulling machine would be, can you give me now - I realize you may not be comprehensive, I realize there still may be certain things you haven't noticed, or you would be more thorough in your office, with a set of plans and a cup of coffee, but - can you give to me the hazards on that hulling machine if we were to give a temporary permit." Schoen: "Dust from the grains that is being dumped is the most hazardous. According to the information we had - like the salesman said -it's probably pretty dust proof r~ D1eridian City Hall - Special fleeting .16. January 25, 1962 Bio-Foods (Cont'd)....... but we're not sure of that. There is a hopper that sets on top, that dumps grain, loose into a hopper, then into the machine." Councilman Orton: "Two things that the Code does to take care of this hazard is explosion proof wiring and ventilation." Schoen: "Right, I have all those requirements on the plans plus it has to have one exhaust - and it has to have an extra exit - it's all marked on there." Orton: "Just a minute, I'm still pursuing this, if I could gentlemen. 4Jhen would your hulling machine be in and ready to install?" Sewald (?): "It's ready to be installed. It's not going in until they give me a clearance as how I can put it in. I've had the machine here nine (9) days." Brian Smith: "I think the decision has already be made, that what we can go ahead and do, and makes sense, 9o ahead and wire with industrial wiring; or wiring up to code should the machine prove hazardous." Councilman Orton: "What I'm getting at gentlemen is, if the hazards aren't signifi- cant, we can obviously issue you a temporary building permit. flow, you've got the machine, you have agreed even on a temporary basis to put in the dust proof wiring - you've agreed to that?" !•1ike HiTI (?): Basically I feel that we should put the dust wiring in." Orton: "What about the ventilation?" Hill (?): "This is the first I heard about it tonight." Orton: "So this would not be a part of your temporary occupancy request. You do not want to put in the walls?" Hill(?): "If I-felt that the machine was a dust hazard - I would say yea." Orton: "Vern, you have designated part of the building for H-3 use is because you think, you've been told, or you.'re worried that this might fall into that category?" Schoen: "It's dumping grain that's called hazardous.' Or storage of grain." Sewald (?): "It's pre-cleaned before it comes in to us and then its stored in a 4x6 metal box, for which I agreed to buy metal lids for. It would be extremely difficult to burn it up." Councilman Kingsford: "Vern, is there a different classification for cleaned grain versus non-cleaned?" Schoen: "H-3, woodworking establishments, planing mills, box factories, buffing rooms for ti re rebuilding plants and picking rooms; shops, factories or warehouses where loose combustible fibers or dust are manufactured, processed, generated or stored; and pin refinishing rooms. The standards that are in here, in the Code Book, explains all of the things that creates problems, and it doesn't say that washed grain is dust proof - or anything. It is one of the most dangerous things when it comes to grinding up - it doesn't sound dangerous. Another thing I would like to explain - it would be very easy to move HUICO welding shop into that whole building. You have to understand Life Safety and fire, etc." Councilman Brewer: "I'm kind of boiling. I've promised to keep my mouth shut, but it's been brought out by several people here tonight - I get sic!< and tired of eluding to these Codes all the time. These Code books are not Bible - there is only one Bible and that's the Holy Bible. These Code books are made for guidelines - they are not far rock-hard bottom of the way we do things. Not taking you to task personally, Vern, but I have talked to people of other cities talked to prominent, well known contractors who are respected, and they all agreed - and I know we have to cover fire codes - but that is not a Bible. 6Je have to be able to vary from it and that's all there is to it. We have caught ourselves in this position several times the last few months and I think it's going to get worse or there's going to have to be some changes made." Brian Smith: "I think that's very well said - we have to work with this all the time. And we're not often successful gaining a variance from the Code. That is the Building Officials job - he has no other option, really. In the first instance you have to go with the Code, but again it doesn't describe absolutely everything. It doesn't help us in a situation like this. There are many, many more uses than washing carrots. In this instance I think we might be willing to bring that before ~ Meridian City Flail ~ Bio-foods (Cont'd)...... you and seek a variance. When we present this set of plans, I think we should make it 100% totally up to codes so Vern and everybody else will be happy with it. A sp~cificinstahcewe might want to seek a variance, I don't see why we don't just follow the normal channels, bring it before you at a later date" Councilman Tolsma: "Now much barley are Sou going to process?" Sewald (?): "I would say one semi in a month" "4Je pearl the barley, we split peas, and we bag beans. This is. what get's me - we store all these things in these little boxes - beans do not fall in this category but I'm sure they have dust too. Why can't we get a temporary on all the aspects up to this pearl barley, install it and see what everybody thinks. If we have a problem - put in some alternatives." Councilman Orton: "lJhat are those other aspects?" Sewald: "We split peas, bag lentils and all the bean varieties- about 20 of them. Then we press pack potatoes, carrots and onions. We go into a small package with 1 and 2 lb." Orton: "You do this with that one machine?" Sewald: "No, this is the. whole thing. basically, the hulling machine is what threw us. The beans probably have just as much dust as the barley - of course the beans aren't classified that way. That one box of barley in there throws it into another class. Basically all the products are pre-cleaned in other facilities - we ,just break them down into packages." Orton: "41hat I was fishing for was a Motion that I thought my colleagues would agree to. The Motion would have to make a big stab at litigating the hazards that Vern has brought to us. I can't think of a way to do that after what I've just been told, unfortunately." Brian Smith: "Referring to your other Motion, you called for a set of plans - we are very close to having that set of plans available - in a couple of days probably. I would suggest that in that set of plans we indicate a solution should the huller proved to be H-3 classification, that there is a dust hazard, that we could implement all or part of, based on whatever you decided we needed to do. So we have that specific option to it." Councilman Orton: "In exchange for temporary occupancy permit. l•Jhen is the latest you would want that temporary occupancy permit - now, or after you submit the plans?" Brian Smith: "We could submit those plans are you prepared to move ahead and install Sewald:"I'm prepared to do it today" Smith: "I think Dennis would also have to he might have somewhat significant expense this area to provide a one hour wall. Bas a stud wall, sheetrock...." Schoen: "A block wall..." this week. flow long would it take Dennis, all that stuff?" be prepared to face the possibility that if he were required to totally sheetrock ically enclose this space with a stub with. Councilman Tolsma: "It seems that if all the controversy runs around this hulling machine - ~ahat if you give him a temporary for everything excluding the hulling machine area." Sewald: "Yes, get to that point and let's work around that one." Tolsma: "You have quite a bit of other equipment that you can start..." Sewald: "Yes, $350,000 worth. But that doesn't seem to be the squabble now - up to that point.." Orton: "Excluding all .the machines,the other things. he want's to do and based on the plans you have now, and had a chance to look at and even though they are not 100%, and your review isn't eveh 100% for the same reason, what are the major hazards with the rest of this if they do the things they say tfieyare wing to do?" Vern Schoen: "The hulling machine in that area in the most bf it:' I even suggested at one tune that they get a temporary permit and not even consider the hulling machine. I suggested that they move it outside and use it someplace else." Piayor Glaisyer: "Excluding that Vern, what else has to be done to the building, so he can start conducting his business?" Schoen: "Except for that?" Piayor: "Except for that" i ~ P1eridian City Hall - Special Meeting .18. January 25, 1982 Bio-Foods (Cont'd)..... Schoen: "It's pretty much on the plan, red-lined, except for Earls...." P•1ayor: "Is there any major things on there we have to worry about?" Schoen: "The Hyster charger would have to be removed into a separate building or outside. I have it marked off on that. The other things I have listed here are very minor, stairways and what sized steps, etc., we have a corridor added upstairs, and I have a couple of little items on the detail - there is no wiring shown on any type of exit lights or anything like that. That's probably one of the main issues other than the hyster charger and this room that they had divided off - which I have went through and listed the things that needed to be done." Brian Smith: "From the comment, I would say if it wasn't for the huller there would not have to be any remodeling whatsoever - but again, we don't have exit lights. `low you could just go in there and get an electrical permit, an occupancy permit, and be in business. I think that's the way to go." Councilman Kingsford: "You need exit signs and emergency lighting, is that right?" Sewald (?): "If we don't change our use..." Mike Hill: "When he read that earlier I think it was the floodlioht for the stairway. With no disrespect for any of that, I urould personally like to know - and you, your- selves can only answer this - would you really like this business in this area - are you wanting to develop this facility? Or is there some other plans in mind? Something at the back of me is saying there is something else in mind down the road. because we certainly don't want to spend all this time and money, which you can respect, to develop this and now we have a bunch of money in it - and now there is another snag. This is my concern see - you respresent the community, do you feel you really want this here. That's all I want to know - you, yourself have to answer that and there is no disrespect there at all. Idhatever your judgements are they are definitely sound, but I have a feeling that maybe you don't - maybe you really don't want this in here - I feel it would be a definite asset." Mayor Glaisyer: "Do you ~~rant to preclude anything on that Carl?" Carl Raasch: "I could have a certain lot of responsibility for what might take place here, of which I already have through the last few years that I have owned the place, and I do have the warranty deed for it - it's partly up to me what goes in there. It is zoned Industrial and this happens to be a particular type of industrial oper- ation that will benefit the City of Pleridian. I have had everything from fireworks on down - many of them that I have chosen, personally, not to be involved with them due to fire hazard, that kind of thing right here in the City. I screened a certain amount of it outside of the books and regulations that you people have chosen for the regulations for the City of P~1eridian - and yet, we have a good one right now." Councilman Kingsford: "Mr. Hill, in answer to your question, we are not developers - at least I thins: personally, I don't care to say who put's what in what building, it's their building, and I still believe in a Capitalistic system -I would lot's rather it not be a Church over there because they don't pay tax -but beyond that I think what you outlined is an excellent program - I'd like very much to see it there. Again, I think the spirit of cooperation is essential to get it going. The really important thing is that you set down, get this thing ironed out, we will all know who is on first and who is on second, and get going. I don't think you find this body is personally against it at all. I'd like very much to see it there." f+like I-!ill: "I thank you for your answers." End of verbatim transcription from Tape due to battery discharge on tape recorder. Tapes on file with City Clerk, Meridian City Hall. f1eridian City Hall - S eci 1 Meeting .19. ~~ January 25, 1982 Bio-Foods (Cont'd)............ The Motion was made by Rick Orton and seconded by Ron Tolsma to approve Bio Foods, located in the Creamery Building 37 East Broadway, Temporary Occupancy for the remainder of the building covered by plans already submitted with trre exception of the hulling machine and hyster battery charger and to allow sixty (60) days for an approved set of flans. Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Tolsma, yea; Orton, yea There being no other business to come before the Council the meeting was adjourned. ATTEST: ~- "~ _~ ~% ~ aW na L.JMiema CyEy Clerk