1982 01-25
Meridian City Hall - Special Fleeting
lJ
January 25, 19II2
Special Meeting called to order by Mayor Joseph L. Glaisyer at 7:35 P.P1.
Councilmen present: Grant Kingsford; Bill Brewer; Rick Orton Jr.; Ron Tolsma
Others Present: Pim Hoogland; Larry Sundell; Brian Smith; Michael Hill;
John R. Hickman; Dale Bates; Deenis D. Sewald;Earl Ward;
Coenraad Rbas; Bruce Stuart; Roger Welker; Skip Voss; Ray Sotero
Brian Smith; Brian Smith and Associates: "Larry and I have been working with
Sewald to put together some plans for the Creamery and we have a schematic model
and I would like to take you through with what v;e intend to do. Larry and I are
architects in a firm in Boise and we have had quite a lot to do with old buildings;
Our most recent renovation is Main Street Market Place and we have also done the
Hoff Building." "IJhat Dennis want's to do with the Creamery Building is turn it into
a large active Farmer's Plarket and tie it in with community activities. The spaces,
some are in fairly good condition and some are not, and over a period of time they
would be developing it into a light processing or bulk produce - grains come in and
are packaged and Dennis has a business where those are shipoed out to other buyers
all over the country, and in some foreign countries. An d: to also, since that would
occupy this area of the building (Smith points out diagraml) with warehousing here.
That leaves us this major portion of the building which we would intend to develop
with a central access - punch a hole right through these two buildings (points out
diagram) leaving approximately equal areas on either side to be developed into spaces
of varying uses and leased out to related businesses. Local produce would be bought
in the morning and sold during the day, other activities would be planned. I think
the key thing here is that the oroject would take place over a period of time and
developed in stages. Ultimately we could see a restaurant use in the old boiler
room which is a very exciting space. This initial building here, according to the
original plans, has very nice trus work and if that old ceiling were taken out,
would create a very nice, or very large space, for some larger use. It's anticipated
that people from all over the Valley would come here to buy fresh produce, sellers
would come here to sell and that we could make a very fine community asset out of it."
1~layor: "Any questions of Dennis or 6rian at this time?"
Councilman Rick Orton: "In general, your plan calls fora lot of retail activity?
You say people would come and buy the produce?"
Sevaald: "I would say yes. When it's completed it would be a lot of retail. l~Je are
basically wholesalers and will be the large user of the facility. We have about
another 35,000 square feet that could be developed into retail.- so it's about 50/50."
Orton: "That's a lot of retail. l~Jhere do you plan parking?
Sewald: "About 100 cars on site {points out possible parking locations)"
There was discussion concerning the location of the railway spur which is privately
owned.
Orton: "Can you give me any idea as to how this construction and development of this
would proceed. In the first phase of initial construction what might you try to do?"
Sewald: "tdurnber 1, we're trying to get our business into the facility.We are the
majority of the user of the square footage there. Our business is Idaho Seed Company
and 8io-Foods which is basically we do seed products and we do food products - the
major portion of our program is packaging and processing - that's under an organic
line. We don't deal with herbicides or pesticides. We do some commercial work as
far as custom situation for other businesses, small packaying and so on. 6Je do
handle under rail and we do handle under trucks so we have both of those flowing.
We estimate about 10 to 15 new people from 61eridian for this facility - lJe already
have a staff of five or six. The other businesses that could be plugged into this
is distributors, or basically wholesalers, we would like to get maybe a small grocery
in there on a year round basis. Some small businesses such as office space - there
is a number of retail situations that could go in there. We would like to cater to
Meridian - we don't feel we should try to attract the people from Boise. Of course
a restaurant is a social affair and anybody will come 10 miles to a social function.
We contract growers from Ontario to Idaho Falls that supply our business - majority
of them are in the Meridian area."
~,, ,
City Council - Special
Bio-Foods (Cont'd) ................
January 25, 19
Mike dill: "I do all the marketing for Bio Foods and Idaho Seed Company.
I think the most stimulating thine. about this project is the influx of traffic
and the accessability of population. The concept of a Farmers Market - being able
to buy directly from a farmer, bring people into town and to this part of town -
I would say that people are going to the north end of town and this would be some-
thing to bring people into the center of town. So we are expecting a lot of people
here locally, and around the surrounding areas, and users of•food - which all of us
are - to come in to this store. We feel because of this facility is needing
renovation we have taking steps on our blueprints to show how we will rectify that.
To update the facility to where it would be an attraction, rather than a detraction,
right now the facility is doing nothing and every year it will cost - no matter
who it is - more money to renovate it or whatever needs to be done. 4;e're trying
to build in some revenue in this area, it's a large enough facility to allow our
concepts to fit our program, allows us to expand and bring in this type of traffic.
I feel it will help stimulate the economy here, pay more taxes, hire people - these
all add up. We are not trying to bring something in that will detract from the
community - this is step one, we have plans to paint the facility and dress it up,
we want it to have the appearance that people like to come to shop or see what is
being done. This will fit our needs and we feel that what we are asking here and
what we are trying to propose is something exciting in this area. There are other
areas but this one is centrally located, we feel this area will grow - the population
is moving this way. This is something for the future -this is long term, it is not
set up for short term."
Brian Smith: "You asked hpw long something like this takes, I think that is hard to
say. As you know the development business these days is more difficult than it
usually is. The Eighth Street P•1arket Place has been through three phases and that's
taken us five years. We started with the first phase then we did the theaters,
finished up the second phase and I would expect that this project would take at least
that many, if not more. Some of the buildings are in very good condition and can be
used right away, and in fact are being used by Dennis.. But here over (indicating on
map) is in pretty poor condition. The intended use does not require a high degree
of finisYi - sophisticated improvement. P1ost of this use is ground floor, hard
surfaced floor covering, will have produce coming in and out and will be designed
for a forklift to run through here with potatoes and so forth - so it will be designed
to retain some of it's industrial character. At the same time we intend to use a nice
landscaped area, (indicates drawing) trees and sort of a plaza for people to eat
their lunch. There should be enough food in here to put together a lunch and sit
here and eat. lJe are going to provide a drive-in portion where you can load up
50 lbs. of onions or whatever, we intend to have an outdoor market out here in front
in the good season. The outdoor market would retract into the building, this center
core as it turns out nicely skylighted. So it is likely that would occur over
several phases. This is the phase we are working on right now (indicates dravaing)
push this hole through here and we would elect to work on either this side or this
side. It depends on what the particular interest is at that time, I know Dennis has
had a lot of interest from people - some of it real and I suppose some of it
imagined. All of the people we have talked to seem to be very excited about it.
Economics probably wouldn't justify a more intense use of this building than this -
Uses are limited. Structurally it looks like it's in good shape - the intended
use fits the structure. This is a very realistic approach to putting this building
back to useful situation."
Carl Raasch: "I happen to be the owner of the property at the present time and I
would like to clarify one point that has been brought out. The building, true enough
in places, does need facelifting. Structurally it is sound and in very good condition.
Let's relate to just the last few days the happenings of new buildings - here we have
new architecture, new buildings, neva inspections and the roof of the bishop Kelley
Library falls in - this one still stands. The structure is sound, granted it may need
facelifting."
Smith: "Cosmetically the building is really ragged but we propose re plastering
most of the plastered surfaces and painting most of the brick to bring back a.uniform
color; nice colorful awnings on all of the window openings; the detail of the building
would be a bold stripe in dark greens in fairly subdued colors but would bring back
~ Meridian Cit
Hall - Special Meeting .3.
~ Bio-Foods (Cont'd).........
a certain richness. That detail would continue around the whole complex and would
beautify it. We would be adding this roof (designates drawing) a covered porch for
the outdoor market to take place spring, summer and fall."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Brian do you want to pick up from here and get down to the basics
of our problem."
Smith: "We've laid out our concepts of what we could do and basically we should
get to some of the problems we have approached to get to this point."
Dennis Sewald: "Basically what I am running into here is that I don't feel that
the City of heridian is getting their fair share of what's going on here. It seems
that when I go around the facilities and the businessmen in town and talk of my
project they all seem to be behind me in one fashion or another. They can't under-
stand why the delay or what you might call dragging the feet of the people that run
the City. Now, I feel that I have presented the City with everything that's
possible to present them with. This is just a portion of it - we have presented the
City with several sets of blueprints on our ideas. I started this project the first
week of November, it is .now the 25th of January and we still do not have a temporary for
facility, a building permit, any conformation for the facility, I still do not have
any help from the City Departments on this project. Now, I'm sure you know all the
businessmen in the world are naturally a nervous type of bunch. So now I'm running
into the City dragging their feet - people that finance a project such as this tend
to wonder does the City really want this. Now T'm wondering the same thing and
that's why I have asked for this meeting, to see if this is just one or two people's
opinion or the City of PAeridian's opinion. When I get out into the public, they
don't give me that opinion - but when Ideal with some of the City Officials I get
this opinion. Surely you see I've went out of my way to present this in the best
fashion that we know how. We are not Jack Simplot or any of that fact-similar, we
are just local guys, you know farmers,and trying to build a business in agribusiness.
We had several places to choose, City of Boise, heridian and Ontario. I felt
Meridian was the best location and I still feel that way. Number one, we have a
facility that can handle the growth of our business. Number two we have the labor
force here that can handle it. They say Meridian needs business in their City.
Basically we have to stop the bull and get to real things because I need everybody's
help, not just part of your help. If you folk's aren't behind it, now is the time
to tell me. I've spent $30,000 in less than 90 days in teridian and T'm not much
closer to accomplishing my job in this loan. They have gone out of their way so the
City officials here could drag their feet. I presented the last set of prints to
them a week ago Monday and they said they had to digest it. I didn't know whether
they had to eat it or what. Now it's a week later - I think it's time to come out
and say the real things not just prolong it. Either the officials run the City or
the people run the City - I'71 go which way they want to go. I've got to quit just
hanging out at Meridian $hinking I'm going to do something. So, either get behind
it or say "No, we don't want it". I didn't come into this town to cause a bunch of
problems - I come into this town to create jobs and create a project and finish it out.
lJe need to come down to some real hard thinking. The people I've talked to doesn't
feel heridian can afford more businesses to slip away."
Councilman Brewer: "The total magnitude of the project, and as exciting as it seems,
I sit here somehow dumbfounded - I hadn't seen any of this. I had no idea what the
total project was about. It seems like the cart has been before the horse."
Sewald: "Basically I came into this and thought I should go through the normal chain
of things, like anybody else - to see if it functioned. O. K., the re'sa breakdown
because I had to call a special council meeting to get - here I am sitting with
Insurance companies and bonding agents saying "hey, you better not be sitting in there
unless you have a temporary permit or a permit, period." I said you are right about
that, because insurance and my bonds doesn't cover me. "Well, why can't you get one-
there shouldn't be any kind of problem, that doesn't really mean much, just states
the facts and what you are trying to do." That's true too - this is what I'm trying
to get answered. Yes, you should have known all about this, it's been presented. "
Councilman Orton: "This is zoned correctly already, so normally,Bill,something like
this where a building permit is all that's required, if it were to go smoothly, I
~ Meridian Cit
-~ecial_Meetin .4. J.
Bio-Foods (Cont'd) .........
don't think it would ever be seen by the Council, period."
Brewer: "4Je11, we shouldn't have to. But still the total magnitude of this thing
and I respect Carl and all here, that if I were going to put my bucks into that,
by golly I would have been on this doorstep and come to the Council right-off.
I can't believe that you have gone this far and never talked to me - or Grant."
Sewald: O. K., now I have spoke to several of the Council members on this project.
From the day I came into this town. I have other businesses to run too. Really,
we have to take this in steps. I'm still talking about these two facilities Step one,
and I have been since November 1. When we brought a City Council meeting I said we
should tell them all the ideas, well you are going to bother all these people
trying to get this one job done. This one job, we are presenting this, this is what
we would like to do sometime down the future. Step 1 is actually my business here
in these two facilities - I'm still trying to get a temporary. No. 1, when does a
man get issued a temporary? My understanding of a temporary is 30 or 60 days to get
all your things in order. Other peoples opinion of a temporary does not seem to go
that route, such as the Building Inspector. Now, he is bent over backwards to make
this as difficult as possible - not just a little out of his way, but over backwards.
Now when I go to the people out here, they can't understand this - they can't under-
stand why that problem is. That's why I'm here. I can't understand it either, when
the people over here tell me they want it, why isn't the City officials following
their wishes?"
Councilman Brewer: "Again, back to the main point - I never realized there was a
problem here until Dale Bates, a Senior Citizen in our town, came into my office
and told me there was a problem. In all honesty I never knew there was a problem
there and again, I think that falls back, maybe to a degree on the City, but I feel
to a brief degree on you people for trying to bring this about and not making it
more common knowledge. I would like to ask each of the Councilmen right now - have
you seen this model? Have you heard anything about total plan? This is the point
I'm trying to make. And I think it might make me more agreeable tonight, in being
able to work with you on your initial part of it, if I had known anything at all on
what was going on."
Sewald: "In other words, you think we should go over these folks' heads, that run
these positions in the City, and bother the City Council with these problems?"
Brewer: "On a project with that magnitude - I would of. I don't like setting here
tonight and finding out about this - it really upsets me."
Sewald: "That's why we brought this meeting together -"
Brewer: "It seems this is two months behind"
Sewald: "Well, basically, maybe we are confusing the issue here. What I'm really
after here is this use and this use -(Designating drawing) temporary permit- that
is number one - that was what I was after. Since we are bringing all you folks
together at one time - you couldn't have seen this because it never got done until
yesterday. I don't want you to confuse this issue of this whole project over what
we're really talking about - dragging the feet. I went to Mr. Schoen a half-dozen times
and I got 30 stories every time. :dhat do you need Mr. Schoen - I present it and this
isn't enough - I present it and this isn't enough - where does it end? I wasn't
trying to go around any of the Council, I was open on this - I'm human and there is
only so many people I can contact and to contact everybody I feel that we should all
have gotten together to contact, I wasn't trying to hide anything from anybody."
P1ayor Glaisyer: "O. K. anything else Dennis?" PJo response
Councilman Tolsma: "The Sewer Superintendent, before tonight, has been trying to get
a gallon per day effluent discharge. He has never come up with a figure on this -
he said "somehwhere between 50,000 gallons and 5,000 gallons."
Sewald: "The same day I talked with Joe, which was early in Povember, I went out and
spoke with the Sewer Department. I gave him our gallons in usuage in that point of
time, which is very minimal, O. K. a house usuage, on our particular business. Now
when our whole facility is going that will probably change - but our particular use
was given to him on that date. Plow the City has asked me for an electrical drawings
of this facility, which they do not inspect, which I supplied. The State Electrical
Inspector did not ask me for these, I asked him at our last meeting here "did he require
feridian City Hall - Special Meeting .5. _~ January 25, 1982
Bio-Foods (Cont'd).........
these" - "No, he did not need them" - it stated right here on our blueprints "Built
to Code". O. K.? Pretty simple. That was the last thing the City of Meridian has
requested. Yes, I did tell the sewage man the exact gallons that we would use.
At the first meeting with him. O.K.?"
Councilman Tolsma: "How about the City water?"
Sewald: "The City water? I spoke with the City too, City water, the same time.
In fact, I think it is dated on the application the day I spoke with him. In other
words "can we use the wells on the facility?" "PJo, it's a City ordinance that you can't
use the wells for domestic use." Fine, O. K. - "how much water do you use?" And we
gave fiim those numbers. The day the application was filled out - you would have to
look on that application to find out that date. But yes, it was indicated- not in
writing, it was verbally asked. I will be more than happy to indicate it in writing.
That's what I worked on this whole 30 to 60 day period over, trying to talk to
everybody I could talk to about this project. And I did miss some, I'm sure."
Earl ldard, tJasteWater Superintendent: "I would like to address that. Sewald did
come out and see me and ask me some specific questions. I did request, in writing,
a background of the process that you were using at the present time. This was not
received - I did not get that. 'We did discuss the wells, the monitoring of the
effluent and that's really the extent of the information other than from Mr. Sundell
who called me and indicated that it would be from 6 to 8 thousand gallons per day
with 2 lbs. of silt. And from what you and I had discussed, this is completely
different - you were looking at possibly 50,000 gallons a day, we were trying to come
up with how much silt you would have and if you remember we discussed the size, or
the type of equipment - I never got a list of the equipment, I have no idea..."
Sewald: "And you asked at that time fora written...?"
Ward: "Yes" "And a past performance or operational reports of some kind - not
necessarily very detailed - but you have not supplied me anything. It makes it very
difficult determining the sewer use because we haven't even covered the water
metering - whether it is water metered off the wells or City system or the effluent
discharge. That is one of the problems."
Sewald: "Well, I don't normally misunderstand people when I put a project together
of this magnitude."
Ward: "I thought we had things pretty specific."
Sewald: "There is a lot of difference between 50,000 gallons and 6,000 gallons that
the architects..."
Ward: "There certainly is and this is what we should get resolved."
Sewald: "It would be 6,000 gallons per day"
Ward: ""O. K. 6,000 and as far as 2 lbs. a day of silt - is that on the volumn?"
Sewald: "2 lbs. of silt per 6,0000 gallons. So now you have those two numbers.
Anything else?"
4Jard: "We would like to know the type of equipment that's going in and the size
they are capable of. I was asked to indicate a silt trap - for what it's hard to say..
I can't hardly give a determination if I don't know the ultimate use."
Sewald: "Are there anymore questions we should get answered here?"
Councilman Orton: "We have got to keep in mind what the issue is here, and that's
to get this gentlemen a building permit - -"
Sewald: "An occupancy permit - in other words that is what fqr. Schoen has indicated
to me - that I must have this. Is that true or not true?"
Orton: "What's our process - we get plans and when their approvable they are approved
and issue a permit?"
Vern Schoen, Building Inspector: "And after that and completion there is an Occupancy
permit."
Orton: "Is there anyway we can give him an Occupancy permit fora portion?"
Schoen: "Yes, a Temporary Occupancy slip, which I suggested to Joe, which is for the
office area only, there was no heat in it so it didn't begin to comply until we had
a plan for it."
Sewald: "There's no law that we have to supply heat."
Orton: "Do they have to supply heat, or if they want to work in the cold....?
,<..~
Meridian City Hall -~cial Meeting .6. i January 25 1982
Bio-Foods (Cont'd)......
Sewald: "I didn't say anywhere in the laws that it .. "
Schoen: "Under the Codes it goes right under the heat laws, all the exits and
everything else - you didn't have the proper exits either.."
Sewald: "Are we're talking about exits or heat?"
Schoen: "Both"
Sewald and Orton began speaking at the same time.
Orton: "Excuse me, you are going to have to let me talk. Vern, on a Temporary
Building Permit, does he have to be coming - for the area he is going to be on
Temporary Occupancy - does he have to come into all conformance of Code in all
categories?"
Schoen: "Yes, if you were to take a building that was under new construction and
you got a portion of it done - then you get a temporary permit for that portion.
Once you take an .old one and want to remodel the entire thing and they have one
building, they get a permit for the whole thing. They get this one portion done,
maybe that's the only permit they had.. Then when that's ready - they move in
and according to Code a Temporary Certificate would be issued for that part only.
Not a temporary to go ahead and do the work in a building where they do not have a
permit because when .all things finally come together, if they went ahead, we may
have to make them completely change something on the final plan. Then of course
you would be doing them unjustice, me unjustice or anybody else because of all the
backtracking you would have to do. You would have to move machinery, remove some of
their wiring - so you have to wait, especially when there is any type of extensive
remodeling".
Councilman Orton: "So the Temporary Permit for the office space, you would have to
require them to bring that portion of the building up to Code and then before they
could begin activities in the remainder of the space, it would have to be brought
up to Codes."
Schoen: "Right"
Orton: "O. K. I would like to make a general comment here. I think that the reason
there has been trouble is not because people have not be stalling to make your life
rough, because they have neen bending over backwards trying to help you - there has
been a lot of miscommunication going on here. When Vern, Earl or Bruce, whoever has
been involved, trys to describe one of your problems to you I believe you're taking
that as your only problem. It's not - you are finding out - a doorway in a wrong
place in addition to the heating being out, there might be an explosion proof problem
a ventilation problem in a particular area. In Earl's case, he asked you for the
flows and then he asked for more information to help you out - they are doing that
because they want to help you not because they want to hurt you. Let's get this
thing .streamlined first by the three Departments - Water, Sewer and the Building
Code Department. First thing I would like to see is those three people write a
letter based on the current plans that has been delivered to us, naming the deficiencies
That way we are out of the verbal mold - will be in a written mold and can start
nailing these things down one at a time. I ask all three gentlemen to look at their
ordinances and don't go beyond their ordinances. Get those requirements straightened
out, I don't think we should go anyplace until we get that done - once we
know what the deficiencies are and current plans, and there are deficiencie; then
this gentlemen will know how to proceed. Let's do it with two things in mind. One,
what do they have to do to get the Temporary Permit and Second, what has to be done
for them to proceed with the remodel of the first phase, or what additional information
do you need from these gentlemen in order to even make a decision. If you don't
believe that you know everything that they intend to do in this first phase - then ask
that in a letter. There may be further requirements based on what they find out.
And one last thing I would like to say here, this concerns me a great deal because I've
made these mistakes - I'm a practicing engineer myself - when I get out civil engineering
matters in some other engineering matters that I'm not familiar with the Code on, I
misinterpret it quite frequently and I want to ask these architects-if in light of
industrial equipment you have it in perhaps this set of plans overlooked some things.
Let me give you an example - I understand that there is a hulling machine in one of
the operations. Under the Fire Code it calls for explosion proof wiring, explosion
proof electrical devices in the room.:'."
Smith: "Correct"
Orton: "Vern pulled out the plans and was telling me about this and I looked at them...
I couldn't see where you had shown the ventilation, the explosion proof wiring -
how did you intend to take care of this?"
Brian Smith: "We got involved with this probably about a month ago. Initially it was
my understanding that Dennis (Sewald) had an existing business that he had essentially
closed and he was moving up to this facility. As long as he closed, his business is
~s'• .!
Meridian Ci
1 - Special Meeting .7.
Bio-Foods (Cont'd).........
closed - he is very anxious to get in there and start getting set up and get this
thing rolling. Initially he wanted to occupy an existing situation which was the
offices - just move in the stuff he was bringing up from Burley. In the meantime
it was clear that a certain plan had to be arrived at -while he was moving up here
occupying .this building, it was,not clear to him whether he would able to occupy
the building at that time. To locate these various pieces of equipment in here,
so they would perform their operation, there seems to be some room for interpretation
as to what this equipment actually does and what classification of use they would
fall under. It seems like there is no question about any complexity with regard to
use, whether to just bolt it down and turn it on - except for the one hulling machine
that you mentioned. When we first came here to the City and met with the
Building Inspector, we discussed that use and we arrived at some agreement that we
were going to classify it as a "FI-4, H-3 Occupant" ~vhich required an enclosure
basically industrial wiring. There was a complex issue as to how to get the hyster
in and out of it and still render it with it's proper fire rating. I think why
Dennis get's frustrated is that he still not really able to occupy the office space
and move his desk in. I don't think you find anyplace in the building code vahere
it requires any space other than residential bedrooms to have heat. A Warehouse
doesn't require it - an office doesn't require heat. In doing these projects maybe
we are just used to different situations but it takes cooperation. Some willingness
on the officials part - to get in and help to unravel this mess and allow something
to happen - something to begin. Not that any Code should be violated but it's not
practical when a man is waiting to set up his equipment for packaging carrots, which
are not hazardous in any means. 11e needs to move them out the door to meet his
commitments and meet his terms of delivery and he's also got product coming.
And yet this entire thing has just stuck until absolutely all questions are answered.
We offered to post a bond as say "look, let's get going on the rest of this, we could
go in there and get v~ired and moved in, get them some heat, put some carpet down,
connect the phones, get some water to the project - and we will work with you on this
and arrive at a satisfactory conclusion to a enclosure for this hulling machine.
I don't know much about a hulling machine, it comes from Switzerland, a great expense -
when we asked Dennis about this machine and the dust nature, he stated that it's not
dusty at all, it is all enclosed and works with a vacuum and so forth. H!e took some
time to educate all of us about the potential hazard of this machine. I don't know
if it's really clear to anybody the hazardous situation this machine creates. But
Dennis has been willing to go along, go by the book, I will use Class 2 wiring, I
will enclose it and bring my hyster in from outside rather than inside. Part of the
frustration is that the entire thing has been held up because of some questions that
our client has been willing to work out with the City."
"Correct me if I'm wrong Vern, but a termporary occupancy permit would allow
occupancy - I don't think there is any such thing as a temporary building permit,
for instance in this office area there's no remodeling really intended - it is only
in light of the entire operation that brings up some question. It's not clear to me
and I would have to look back in the Code to find out wYien a building permit is
required for just occupancy -would he be allowed to occupy this existing building.
This is two questions we are asking now."
Sewald: "O. K., now I want to state right here - all of the prints and plans that the
City has requested, even though they didn't do some of the testing or the inspections
of it, have been handed in a week ago today. And we still have no word on a temporary
or a occupancy, we have nothing. No more than we had when we started in November.
We're still sitting here without a temporary even."
Vern Schoen, Bldg. Inspector: "First time I just received a sketch of the initial
building as it is, the second set of plans received was on 1.19.II2, which is
approximately a month ago. All the plans, the rest of the week,for myself are red-
lined completely and ready to go for the entire building. The normal procedure is
that when those plans come in there is four (4) sets. I give one to Earl, one to
Bruce, one to the Fire Department and when these are ready,come back to me- then we
can back to what has to be done. t~!ith that so far, I have a letter from the fire
Department with their request outlined. I have the plan redlined to my extent. As
I understand it is not complete enough for Earl to go ahead and say O. K. on his part.
r~
P4eridian City Hall - Special Meeting .8. January 25, 1982
Bio-Foods (Cont'd) ..........
This is where it stands. ble have proceeded as we are supposed to proceed.
If it is not acceptable it goes back and has to be redrawn to these redline marks,
to the request of Earl, to the request of the fire Department, Public Works - then
it comes back and will be issued a permit."
Sewald: "When do you issue a temporary?"
Schoen: "!Jo temporary under those circumstances until it's complete."
Orton: "Until what's complete Vern?"
Schoen: "Any portion of it. They complete the office first under the remodel and
then the temporary is for that part only.."
Orton: "What if their remodel doesn't involve any remodeling in the office."
Schoen: "It does involve remodeling."
Sewald: "How do you go about getting this done?"
Schoen: "tdith a plan - we're that close for a complete thing and you are ready to go".
Brian Smith: "If Dennis didn't have any plans to build anything a building permit
wouldn't be required. Would a occupancy certificate be required?" Schoen: (indicates
Sewald: "How do we get that?" yes)
Schoen: "Come to the Building Inspector, he goes out and makes the inspection and if
your occupancy fits the particular building, an occupancy slip can be issued. 4!hen
you change your occupancy is when the trouble starts. In other words, if you have an
office goes out and another one moves in - he wants to be an office, it's the same.
If an office as an insurance company goes out and if you want to move a spray booth
in there - there's a problem."
Brian Smith: "Then would the occupancy of the intended use of all the spaces other
than the hulling machine, doesn't really change the use from what it was previously-
Doesn't really require any construction, to speak of?"
Schoen: "The creamery itself would have not been a H-3 by any means."
Smith: "I'm talking of the office space that we intend to use for bagging machines."
Schoen: "The Code book says "if it needs to be remodeled then that has to be done
to bring it up to Code. You change occupancy, it has to be brought up to Code.
Brian Smith: "Are we in fact changing occupancy except for the hulling machine?"
Schoen: "You're not changing office occupancy? iJhen you change occupancy it's a
olderly building it has to be brought to Code."
Orton: "So on the new occupancy it has to be brought to Code even though the use in
that portion....?"
Schoen: "That's right"
Orton: "In the temporary office - in the office area where the gentlemen wants a
temporary permit - what's your interpretation Vern, what needs to be done?"
Schoen: "Stairway, Exit lights and heat"
Sewald: "I'll debate the Yieat. In other words, if it states that - I'll go along
with it."
Orton: If he handed in a plan to take care of those three things.."
Schoen: "If they want a temporary permit on that portion only - there is also a
plan for all the rest of it."
Sewald: "lde've asked fora temporary building permit just on the office."
P4ayor Glaisyer: "As far as the office is concerned Vern, do you have a heating -
in other words, I think the heating is in question.."
Schoen: "The only thing they show is a furnace - like I say it's a very short set,
but yes, they do show the furnace."
Sewald: "Do we show the electrical?"
Schoen: "You do not show the exit signs..."
Brian Smith: "There is a couple of issues that are being confused somewhat. The
issue of occupancy and the issue of changing the use. We have been in situations -
I don't know if it's by the letter, by the Code or by the City Ordinance - but
occupancies have been allowed in buildings that are intending of being renovated
where the use isn't really changing. TFiere are many, many buildings, including the
State Capital that doesn't meet Code but yet it is occupied. I think because some-
times buildings become vacant and maybe the building department might have had a
previous bad experience, they ma;~ take a standback attitude .right from the start.
I Meridian C
Bio-Foods
1 = ~ecial_hteeting .9. January 25, 1
(Cont'd).......
We have not been instructed by our client to see how much we can get away with.
lJe can all walk over there and see how hazardous the situation is. It's a subject
for occupancy, we are required to have two exits when the occupancy goes above
10 people, there is in fact three people occupying that space. But it also states
that if the floor space goes over 500 sq. feet it requires two exits - so that's
where we get stuck again. We're in catch-twenty-two, because where do we put the
exit? Do we just scab on a second stair coming off the side, do we take our time
to develop the overall plan to decide where our second exit really needs to be to
serve other areas of the building, it would by very nice to tie both of those
sections together. Dennis is waiting - all he want's to do is bag carrots. I think
there is two issues. One is occulancy, one is remodeling and new occupancy under new
uses."
F1ike Hill: "I think this is a lot on interpretation, who want's to interpret the
way they want to interpret it and .the willingness to work it out. Also> as a tax-
payer,you as public officials are obligated td keep me informed on what's happening.
for example, if there was a problem why weren't they all laid out to begin with?
Why weren't they written out, how come we had to go through all these different steps?
It costs money to do this. I feel as a taxpayer you owe me an obligation also to
help me get into this thing. Not to suppress it. If there's problems let's sit
down and work it out. I've been thinking about, maybe you weren't spoke to - from
day one vae have been trying to go through the normal steps. That's why you hired
Vern Schoen, if you didn't hire him and we just come to you, then what are you
paying him for? Going through the proper channels and now we are being somewhat
condemned for not going around him. These additional steps are put out because
this is what needed if we're going to bother you. To get these temporaries and things
we had to draw up this big model to show you for your benefit, because it had to get
to this point. L•le tried to work with it at a proper step and it didn't work.
lJe are not able to do anything - vae are businessmen, you as businessmen should be
able to understand that. It's a serious problem and that's why this meeting got to
this point. We didn't come in here to cause waves, we are coming in here to
stimulate economy and help build up this community. I will personally apoligize
if you feel we should have come around the backdoor. I thought as a taxpayer that
is why we pay this gentlemen. Personally,I think there is a few things that need
to be changed on cooperation 6Jhy can't we expect Vern to give us cooperation?
I think by the way, for example, he is paid - it doesn't allow to be unbiased. He's
paid on commission."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Now, let's be careful where you tread water."
(-like Hill: "I'll retract that and not say anymore about it."
'tlayor Glaisyer: "We run the City, we're not worried about people's salary for one
thing - the second thing, we are responsible for safety and health of everybody
in this community - not just one business. You go in there and not have exits and
people are in there and they are hurt, we are responsible - we are personally liable.
We have a Volunteer Fire Department, maybe we are a little bit stringent on our
Codes. That's why the man's being paid and he's always done a good job - and I will
defend that right down to the end."
Mike Hill: "I don't dispute that, I just feel that for all the blueprints that were
handed in..."
P1ayor Glaisyer: "He's doing his job, he brings it to us in his strictest sense
and if we want to make changes it's our decision - not Vern Schoen's decision."
Councilman Grant Kingsford: "I think part of the problem here is that people are
pointing a finger and saying "it's your fault". Let's get into the spirit of
cooperation both ways. It's my understanding, from this discussion, that there has
been many sets of plans. Yet, I talk to Vern and I hear that there has been a rough
set of plans turned in and then a two page set. lJhat other plans have been turned
in?"
Larry Sundell: "There has been three different sets. The first set was under the
assumption that if we showed what we vae re going to do with the project we would be
granted a temporary permit. After that, it didn't go through and we made one more
set designating the whole area, the third set was established, which was a complete
Meridian City Hall - Special Meeting .10. ___`__~ January 25, 1882
Bio-Foods (Cont'd)........-
set for the total project and put in to the Building Inspector for the building
permit. It was my understanding that the last set would be complete. So, there
was three sets."
Councilman Kingsford: "Did all three of them get turned in? To us?"
Sundell: "I am only certain of the second one."
Kingsford: "So, in fact, we have had two sets?"
Sewald (?): "Three presented, two sets accepted."
Kingsford: "Has anybody from the City ever seen the second set? It's been my
understanding that we have had two. Let's get our numbers straight."
Vern Schoen: "This set that I have has the added drawings on the second page and has
the added drawings of the inside wall, which makes it the third set if you want to
call it that."
Kingsford: "So you have two sets?"
Schoen: "Tvao sets."
Sewald (?): "So in other words, you wanted a detailed drawing of the fire escape?"
Schoen: "Come back in, went back to them and come back in again."
Kingsford: "I've heard talk about an electrical set that has been required - where
is the electrical set?"
Schoen: "It's with this."
Sewald (?): "The State Electrical didn't require a set - the Fire Department did."
Fire Chief, Roger 4lelker: "The Fire Codes the City operates under requires for
protection that we have an electrical plans. It can be bypassed by the City Council
but it is required."
Sewald (?): "This is what I'm getting at. If I'm required to do this, why wasn't
I told when I presented the second set that I was required to do this? lJhy was I
not told the first time I met with Vern Schoen?"
Iingsford: "That's another point I want to get at. I understand each time we have
talked - I don't know how many times - I would like to know how many times you have
had conversations with our Departments - I understand each time you have talked with
them, different things have been discussed - additions made that would change what
would have been required."
Sewald (?): "Yes"
Kingsford: "Pow, if that's the case, I don't know how you could point a finger at
theirs and say it's their fault - you didn't give the information all out front - how
could they make an adequate...?" "Vern, you respond to that."
Vern Schoen: "Again, it has to go back to them because there were no electrical
drawings on emergency lighting on the Fire Departments requirements - they are still
not on there."
Brian Smith: "I would ask the Building Inspector to find in the Code whereilluminated
exits are required."
Ray Voss, Fire Marshal: "Illuminated exit signs may not be required but
emergency lighting is required and to be shown on the plans, if it is not shown on
the plans there is no emergency lighting. Fire Safety Code 101 will give you this
information."
Councilman Orton: "This Council has adopted uniform codes in time Skip, have we
adopted that Code?"
Voss: "Yes."
Orton: "Are you aware of that Code gentlemen?"
(?) "Yes"
Sevaald (?): "Really what I'm getting at - when I came here and started this project,
I touched all these bases -"look, give me everything that you need" - which I thought
I had. I went out to my people and I did it,I presented it and it wasn't right."
•
ridian Citv Hall - Special fleeti
Bio-Foods (Cont'd).......
11.
25, 1
Councilman Y.ingsford: "Was anything written down? The thing to do is write things
down that you want to do - I would have written answers back for what it takes -
and there's no confusion. It's been my experience before that is what has been the
order of what happens."
Sewald: "Yes - it seems to 6e kind of wishy~washy doesn't it?"
Kingsforf; "Wishy-washy? That sounds like you're pointing your finger again - did
you write the thinos down that you wanted done?"
Sewald: "No, I wish I had a tape recorder - I needed that."
Kingsford: "Either that - or some sort of written....."
Sewald: "This is a fine example. The electrical layout - why didn't I know that?
I needed that right at the beginning - lJhy did I find out I needed that the third
or fourth meeting?"
Kingsford: "Flow many meetings have you had with the Departments?"
Vern Schoen: "I've met with him a couple of times myself."
Kingsford: "That doesn't sound like four meetings to me. I would hardly say that
two is several."
Sewald: "How many times did we meet with you, Schoen?"
Schoen: "one time on this room and I would say other than that I've met with you....."
Sewald: "So, that's about three times with me...."
Schoen: "I can't answer that exact.."
Sewald: "lJould you say at least three times?"
Schoen: "Just you"
Sewald: "How many times did you meet with my architects that you recall?"
Schoen: "About three - not with the prints that you filed."
Coenraad Abas, Valley News: "Is this a Court Room?"
Sewald: "l~~hat we're tryiny to get at is that we are being led around."
Councilman Kingsford: "We've been getting the run-around too. 41e've got to get
our ducks in order. I don't think anybody here is opposed to you putting that in."
Sewald: "You have one that is opposed to it now"
Brian Smith: "Dennis is trying to get a temporary occupancy permit and his other
desire is to get a building permit. We're generally familiar with the Codes - each
situation is different, we have to get back into it when you talk with a new City -
we haven't done much work in feridian and some occupancies which are generally un-
familiar to Larry and myself, different type uses - we have been working very hard
to work these things out and have made some progress in the last two weeks and fully
well intend to complete that process. But we are sti11 looking fora temporary
occupancy permit."
Dale Bates, Citizen: "I was on the City Council thirty-five years ago - before they
had that Code book and I wonder why they have it now. I can see where it would be
almost impossible for a building to get fixed up to get back into business. I
stumbled into this deal after I talked to Carl (Raasch) and he told me I would have to
talk to these boys on the rental of the boiler room down there. When they told me
the trouble they were having, I was the one that suggested that they come to the
Council. I said I don't think the Council knows what's going on here - I'm sure you
didn't. I was sure you didn't because I got a little run-around myself and I had to
come to you boys and get help. I think this is a great thing. In fact, I remember
back thirty-five years ago, probably Roger is the only one here that can remember it-
when the old Meridian Sale Barn was up by the Pia sonic Temple is now - these produce
dealers used to come in there with their pickups, line up around the block and people
would come from miles to this sale for the sole purpose of buying fresh produce.
When they told me they were thinking of a Farmers F1arket, I thought this was certainly
a good thing for the City. I don't know where the trouble is - you say you're
running the City then I feel like you should know more about what's going on here.
There's a lack of communication somewhere. I can't see setting on the City Council
and a thing this big, being at one end of your office, and not know a thing about it.
From a taxpayers standpoint, I'm very interested in getting in new business especially
C
11 - Special Meeting .12.
~ Bio-Foods (Cont'd).......
of this size. ..because i think it will benefit all taxpayers. I don't think we
should be here holding everything to Code if there is a chance of getting this in
here - let's get it in here. I would like to see this thing open up and go -
I realize you have codes you've got to live with, but I'm wondering if there are
some of these that aren't a little overboard. T think maybe they are. I would
almost bet you that there isn't 10% of the buildings in Meridian, if you go right
down the street, that would pass code. This building right here wouldn't -
you could get right at it. it seems to me that you are expecting these boys to
put that building in shape as they would if they were putting up a brand new
building.. I think the cost is prohibitive for them to go in and ever bring that
thing up like a new building. I've seen that set for 10 to 15 years now and it
seems a shame that big of facility can't be turned into something worthwhile.
I'd like to see it 90."
Carl Raasch: "Naturally, I too would like to see a good facility 9o in and I think
this is a good facility for the City of Meridian. It shows employment, part of the
people in town, and here again I will agree with Dale that upon some occasions you
need to close your eyes and some of the regulations that is written in the book is
simply from the Government. I can't believe that it's all that necessary. Particularly
some of the Fire Codes, or whatever - there's probably been more heat come out of
that boiler room than any building in this town - it still stands. I only want your
cooperation from the City Council and would like to see 100% of the City Council
tonight issue Dennis a building permit and an occupancy permit and let him go ahead
with the project."
John Hickman: "I work fora company out of Salt Lake City, conveyors and equipment,
and from this point - from observing all of this - there seems to be some quandry
going on, and alt of this is hinging on, the hulling machine that Dennis has.
I think being fair to Dennis' situation, being around the country like I am, going
into different plant areas, Algamated Sugar is one. Example, the dust problem they
have is a pulp drying.Numerous different feed stores, like ZamZow's - I'm under the
impression they manufacture cattle feed, whatnot - but what I'm saying is this,
if you used the machine and seen the amount of dust it put's off, and if not I would
suggest you do so in light of the fact the explosion potential you're talking about
in that size of building and that one machine is very limited. I've seen it operate,
I'm familiar with the amount of dust that go on in these plants. Dennis' situation
is unique as he has only got this one machine that's going to be really doing this.
He has a control air system and is aspirated to blow off the dust and return it to
a collection bin. This is a general accepted practice for hazardous materials of
this type. I cite Purina-Ralstin Company, most of your large manufacturers that
deal in flours, grain products, etc. that have this problem are using air aspiration
to remove the potential hazard of the explosion - cite me if I'm wrong - you've got
to have a combination of several things. Atmospheric pressure, humidity, concentration
of dust particles all contribute to this. Initially you can have a spontaneous
combustion or explosion - it might be caused by a spark or something. I don't under-
stand what the big problem is on this.- he's got an air aspiration system on his
hulling machine is removing, I would say probably, 98% of the dust that is a residue
from his milling process. There's equipment on the market than can update his air
aspiration system on that one particular hulling machine and double it's efficiency
to remove dirt in the air down to a micron particle size. A micron is the equivalent
of 1 millionth particle size of a meter. Now, if the big problem is with the
explosive potential I think if you could see the machine work, what's happening with
it, where the dust is coming from, where it's going, how it's handled and what's been
done to update this you could probably smooth over some of the problems you're
having with this on the side. It seems to me I've heard it brought up three or four
times the fact that this hulling machine is giving you whatever your code- H-3, H-4
hazardous explosion. You've got a bunch of problems all on top of this one item.
Seer~is that your code goes up - it requires this, requires this - all because of this
one machine. At the present time he can't run the machine, you guys won't see fit
to let him have his building permit - occupancy permit - fine. If this is a big
problem with the one machine I see no reason why it can't be off to the side.
If you guys would like to - I'm sure it can be arranged, with the permission of your
building inspector, to see this machine operate at least fora few minutes to see
what kind of residue and particles come off from it. You can evaluate it further
Pleridian City Hall - Special Meeting .13. January 25, 1962
Bio-Foods (Cont'd) ........
from that for explosive potential. I would think that if they have come up with
some kind of explosive proof containment for this machine, I really can't see what
the problem would be with it. If it's hinging the rest of his building project on
that one machine, I think it would be valuable for you, as a Task Force, to take
a look at it and see what it actually does."
Playor Glaisyer: "Thank you for your dissertation. I would like to bring the
Council up to date -and Larry, or Brian, if I'm wrong please interrupt me -
but we have met and already discussed these things. The discussion was,when I met
with them,that ttie first thing was to try and get a temporary occupancy permit for
the office building. At the time we were discussing this machine I told Larry, Brian,
and Dennis that no one knows what the machine is going to do, I said we will come
at that point to the Council, get a variance, put you in there with the machine,
for X amount of time, make observations from the building department, fire department
and at that time if we felt it was necessary to put in all the fire codes, etc. ,we
would require at that time, if not we would make a variance. Is that correct?"
The response was "That's correct."
Piayor Glaisyer: "All this stuff has been hashed over. Let's get back to the point
of what we have to do to give these gentlemen a temporary occupancy permit for the
business office only. Then he is going to bring in these other things and keep
moving on in the phases. All this stuff about the City not cooperating is not
necessarily true, we got some breakdowns over here, everybody has an opinion of
what we've done wrong - and we haven't done that much wrong. I want to get them
in their business office. That's where we are - thats the essence at this time.
Then they will come back to Vern-and.. we will no from there."
Vern Schoen: "I don't thinl; their problem is with machines as with loading. This
is not the normal way these machines are filled. He has hopper filling - that
is the dust problem, not the machine itself."
Councilman Orton: "That may be very well the case Brian. I think you are right
Joe. How do we give them a temporary permit. Vern was kind enough to dig the UBC
out and hand it to me a±.d gives here how we give a temporary occupancy permit, and
i 'll .just read it as I think it's important here. "If the building officials find
that no substantial hazard will result from occupancy of any building
or portion tnereof before completion is complete he may issue temporary certificate
for the use of portion, or portions, of the building where structure prior to
completion of the entire building or structure." That means if we believe it's
safe to allow a temporary permit then we can allow it. It says the "building
official" but of course I interpret that as we are the governing body - if we feel
there's no hazard in that office we can allow the permit and maybe negotiate a few
things with Vern and talk to him to see if he feels it is really unsafe. Let's look
at the building. First of all, it has been occupied for office space in that manner
in the past without significant hazard. The only three things that are require to
bring it up to Code is a furnace - I frankly don't think it's unsafe without a
furnace, it might be uncomfortable but it's not unsafe -another exit and emergency
lighting. Again, if the number of people is limited three or four - four or five even-
I can't believe that the thing's not safe. I'd like to see the Council offer the
gentlemen a temporary occupancy certificate good for - just throw out a number -
60 days with a condition that in maybe two days we will have our four letters varitten,
the Fire Department, Water Department, Sewer Department and Building Code - we'll have
our letters out in a couple of days, and then in this 60 day period you would be
required to bring your plans completely up to our standards - and that isn't to say
we won't have another few questions after you bring it up to these comments, if you
misinterpreted something or if we made a mistake and didn't observe something the
first time through - I'm not saying it's going to work perfect. That way you can
get into it, there would timely completion of the plans - 60 days from this time.
And we can all go home tonight - I've already missed the Notre Dame game."
Sewald: "0.1:. This is basically what we have trying to get done, since I started.
Second of all, we needed to have our temporary honored up to the point of this huller.
In other words, all of this other machinery is supposedly alright - that's what they
indicated to me. I'Jow, this huller situation - I can hold off on this huller and
n City Hall - Special f4eeting .14.
Bio-Foods (Cony) .....
I thought we could out it up and you could come over and visually look, and then
could make arrangements. fJone of these plans seem to work until all of these plans
were presented, in detail. So, in other words - I would like a temporary occupancy
on my warehouse too. I feel my architects have presented everything that was last
requested by the City. Now I feel the City owes me an obligation to telling me
what they really do need. Not telling every trip I come up. 6•Jhy can't they tell me
everything I need at the beginning? Or give me the law - it took me two trips just
to get the law. All the other departments work very closely with me and I thought
I had answered all the questions. This is one department that I can't seem to get
all the questions answered. I've worked very hard at it for close to 90 days.
I feel I need more than ,just a temporary in the office."
Councilman Orton: "Have you discussed anything besides the office fora temporary
permit?"
Sewald: "No"
f•layor Glaisyer: "They had the office first and then they were going to come back
in with their plans as far as the rest of it and then we would issue temporary on
that, watching the machine - I think specifically the machine only."
Sewald(?): "Joe said when we presented the blueprints then you would issue the
temporary on the balance. In other words, the office was right there, supposedly
done that next morning. I came over, it wasn't - forget it. Wow when I present the
rest of the blueprints, detailed drawings of electrical that we're speaking of -
which has already been presented - we were going to get a temporary on the balance -
which I have not got."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Wait a minute on that - when I went over, I came back and talked
to Vern and I said "Vern, what do you have to do to get a temporary permit for the
office" and he said he wanted plan of the fire escape, I believe. And I called Larry
and told Larry to get ahold of Vern and find what you have to have, get it in to him
and Vern said he would issue a permit. Isn't that correct?"
Larry: "That's correct - we did that."
Sewald: "And didn't you say at the same time that when we presented the clans on
the rest of the warehouse you would issue a temporary at that point?"
F<layor Glaisyer: "4~hen the plans are in and approved upon."
Councilman Orton: "That's basically what I said - that's what I wanted to do."
"Approve a temporary on the office right now and give them 60 .days to get their plans..."
Sewald (?): "The plans are in Rick"
Orton: "The plans are notapprovable fashion - frankly, they are not in a approvable
fashion now -there are no questions, legitimate questions at this ooint, that I've
heard that vaould make them approvable."
Councilman Tolsma: "Couldn't he put a time frame of 48 hours for all the City
Departments to come up with a letter to explain what tYiey wanted on the other plan?"
Orton: "That's what I think should be done."
tlayor Glaisyer: "No, that was not done. And obviously this is Dennis fault because
when we were communicating things were changing curing communications - that chan!led
part of the building code - now we have to do this. I think it is both at fault.
The City is not going to take the blame for all of it. Get back again - we know
it has to be done for the business office. Either you are going to give him a time
schedule to put the stairway in - if you're going to put the stairway in- or if you
are going to give variances to what Vern said - then you have to do that tonight.
For the business office itself."
Councilman Orton: "I would like to put a flotion on the floor that the Council offer
a temporary occupancy permit for the office space for up to five (6) employees and
that the space has to be brought un to Code within ninety (90) days."
Councilman Tolsma: "I'd like to question the Motion. When the architect said,
about the outside fire escape incorporated later on into the final building plan
used on the three story along with the two story addition - you want to see that just
put in any place - or could he incorporate it when he brought in plans later on
the rest of the building?"
I P•te
Bio-Foods (Cont'd)........
15
Janua
25, 1982
Councilman Orton: "Under my Piotion it was my intent to allow in ninety (90) days
to either construct a satisfactory exit or bring a plan for constructing to get
approved so he would have further time to get it in if he wants to wait a little
longer to get it in that three story."
Sewald: "What I could do is have a safety fire escape on the inside, the kind you
put on the inside of the windows and throw out in case something happens."
Councilman Orton: "That would be nice - that was not part of my motion."
Sewald: "I am willing to do this - I have always been more than willing to do these
things. Anything to make it less hazardous for a person I would prefer doing.
I've never tried to shun that responsibility."
Councilman Ron Tolsma: "I'll second the P1otion."
Mayor: "Question." "Would that bring it up to Code though - you said "up to Code"
or the plan - so that's not going to leave..."
Councilman Orton: "When I said "bring it up to Code" what I really intend for them
to do is the actual physical construction or be back in here with a set of plans,
or plan, approved and that takes care of the second exit. So if he came in in
eighty-nine (89) days, the. plan. that showed the second exit to be built at some other
place, but acceptable under the code - we approved it on the 89th day for construction
and then another 30 days - then he would in effect get his extension."
Sewald (?): "I think we have already put one in - maybe I'm wrong."
Mike Hill(?): "I think you, yourselves have the power to decide- is this something
necessary or do you feel it is not orIs this throw over ladder sufficient. We really
eventually will have to build a new stairway."
Councilman Orton: "fly Motion still hasn't bypassed any part of the Uniform Building
Code - I simply moved to allow you a temporary occupancy permit to come into
compliance with the Code or produce a plan, a approved plan, - it does need to comply
with the Code."
Vern Schoen: "In regard to the comment, the reason the stairway was added is because
the floor space calls for it. Also we were told that there would be around twenty (20)
people hired."
Mayor Glaisyer: The f4otion has been made and seconded to approve a temporary occupancy
-~ ~ permit in the amount of ninety (90) days and that no more than five (5) employees
will occupy the area, and that within the 90 days either an exit would be provided
that meets code or an approved plan that meets all codes for the occupancy of the
business office." "All in favor?"
P1otion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Orton, yea; Tolsma, yea; Brewer, yea
Mayor Glaisyer: "Vern, you will issue them a temporary tomorrow."
"Now as far as the other section is concerned - you have all those plans I take it?"
Schoen: "I have red-marked all of my part of it - I'm waiting for the rest of the
Departments."
Mayor Glaisyer: "lJhy don't we get the rest of the Departments in, write a letter back
to Dennis, in writing, and say this is what the plans are written up for and that's
what you do to .get your temporary." "I mean building permits,"not temporary."
Councilman Orton: "If we were disposed to give a temporary occupancy permit on
another portion of the building, that is this area where the hulling machine would be, can
you give me now - I realize you may not be comprehensive, I realize there still may
be certain things you haven't noticed, or you would be more thorough in your office,
with a set of plans and a cup of coffee, but - can you give to me the hazards on that
hulling machine if we were to give a temporary permit."
Schoen: "Dust from the grains that is being dumped is the most hazardous. According
to the information we had - like the salesman said -it's probably pretty dust proof
r~
D1eridian City Hall - Special fleeting .16. January 25, 1962
Bio-Foods (Cont'd).......
but we're not sure of that. There is a hopper that sets on top, that dumps grain,
loose into a hopper, then into the machine."
Councilman Orton: "Two things that the Code does to take care of this hazard is
explosion proof wiring and ventilation."
Schoen: "Right, I have all those requirements on the plans plus it has to have
one exhaust - and it has to have an extra exit - it's all marked on there."
Orton: "Just a minute, I'm still pursuing this, if I could gentlemen. 4Jhen would
your hulling machine be in and ready to install?"
Sewald (?): "It's ready to be installed. It's not going in until they give me a
clearance as how I can put it in. I've had the machine here nine (9) days."
Brian Smith: "I think the decision has already be made, that what we can go ahead
and do, and makes sense, 9o ahead and wire with industrial wiring; or wiring up to
code should the machine prove hazardous."
Councilman Orton: "What I'm getting at gentlemen is, if the hazards aren't signifi-
cant, we can obviously issue you a temporary building permit. flow, you've got the
machine, you have agreed even on a temporary basis to put in the dust proof wiring -
you've agreed to that?"
!•1ike HiTI (?): Basically I feel that we should put the dust wiring in."
Orton: "What about the ventilation?"
Hill (?): "This is the first I heard about it tonight."
Orton: "So this would not be a part of your temporary occupancy request. You do not
want to put in the walls?"
Hill(?): "If I-felt that the machine was a dust hazard - I would say yea."
Orton: "Vern, you have designated part of the building for H-3 use is because you
think, you've been told, or you.'re worried that this might fall into that category?"
Schoen: "It's dumping grain that's called hazardous.' Or storage of grain."
Sewald (?): "It's pre-cleaned before it comes in to us and then its stored in a
4x6 metal box, for which I agreed to buy metal lids for. It would be extremely
difficult to burn it up."
Councilman Kingsford: "Vern, is there a different classification for cleaned grain
versus non-cleaned?"
Schoen: "H-3, woodworking establishments, planing mills, box factories, buffing
rooms for ti re rebuilding plants and picking rooms; shops, factories or warehouses
where loose combustible fibers or dust are manufactured, processed, generated or
stored; and pin refinishing rooms. The standards that are in here, in the Code
Book, explains all of the things that creates problems, and it doesn't say that
washed grain is dust proof - or anything. It is one of the most dangerous things
when it comes to grinding up - it doesn't sound dangerous. Another thing I would
like to explain - it would be very easy to move HUICO welding shop into that whole
building. You have to understand Life Safety and fire, etc."
Councilman Brewer: "I'm kind of boiling. I've promised to keep my mouth shut, but
it's been brought out by several people here tonight - I get sic!< and tired of
eluding to these Codes all the time. These Code books are not Bible - there is only
one Bible and that's the Holy Bible. These Code books are made for guidelines -
they are not far rock-hard bottom of the way we do things. Not taking you to task
personally, Vern, but I have talked to people of other cities talked to prominent,
well known contractors who are respected, and they all agreed - and I know we have
to cover fire codes - but that is not a Bible. 6Je have to be able to vary from it
and that's all there is to it. We have caught ourselves in this position several
times the last few months and I think it's going to get worse or there's going to
have to be some changes made."
Brian Smith: "I think that's very well said - we have to work with this all the time.
And we're not often successful gaining a variance from the Code. That is the
Building Officials job - he has no other option, really. In the first instance you
have to go with the Code, but again it doesn't describe absolutely everything.
It doesn't help us in a situation like this. There are many, many more uses than
washing carrots. In this instance I think we might be willing to bring that before
~ Meridian City Flail
~ Bio-foods (Cont'd)......
you and seek a variance. When we present this set of plans, I think we should
make it 100% totally up to codes so Vern and everybody else will be happy with it. A
sp~cificinstahcewe might want to seek a variance, I don't see why we don't just
follow the normal channels, bring it before you at a later date"
Councilman Tolsma: "Now much barley are Sou going to process?"
Sewald (?): "I would say one semi in a month" "4Je pearl the barley, we split
peas, and we bag beans. This is. what get's me - we store all these things in these
little boxes - beans do not fall in this category but I'm sure they have dust too.
Why can't we get a temporary on all the aspects up to this pearl barley, install
it and see what everybody thinks. If we have a problem - put in some alternatives."
Councilman Orton: "lJhat are those other aspects?"
Sewald: "We split peas, bag lentils and all the bean varieties- about 20 of them.
Then we press pack potatoes, carrots and onions. We go into a small package with
1 and 2 lb."
Orton: "You do this with that one machine?"
Sewald: "No, this is the. whole thing. basically, the hulling machine is what threw
us. The beans probably have just as much dust as the barley - of course the beans
aren't classified that way. That one box of barley in there throws it into another
class. Basically all the products are pre-cleaned in other facilities - we ,just
break them down into packages."
Orton: "41hat I was fishing for was a Motion that I thought my colleagues would
agree to. The Motion would have to make a big stab at litigating the hazards that
Vern has brought to us. I can't think of a way to do that after what I've just
been told, unfortunately."
Brian Smith: "Referring to your other Motion, you called for a set of plans - we are
very close to having that set of plans available - in a couple of days probably.
I would suggest that in that set of plans we indicate a solution should the huller
proved to be H-3 classification, that there is a dust hazard, that we could implement
all or part of, based on whatever you decided we needed to do. So we have that
specific option to it."
Councilman Orton: "In exchange for temporary occupancy permit. l•Jhen is the latest
you would want that temporary occupancy permit - now, or after you submit the plans?"
Brian Smith: "We could submit those plans
are you prepared to move ahead and install
Sewald:"I'm prepared to do it today"
Smith: "I think Dennis would also have to
he might have somewhat significant expense
this area to provide a one hour wall. Bas
a stud wall, sheetrock...."
Schoen: "A block wall..."
this week. flow long would it take Dennis,
all that stuff?"
be prepared to face the possibility that
if he were required to totally sheetrock
ically enclose this space with a stub with.
Councilman Tolsma: "It seems that if all the controversy runs around this hulling
machine - ~ahat if you give him a temporary for everything excluding the hulling
machine area."
Sewald: "Yes, get to that point and let's work around that one."
Tolsma: "You have quite a bit of other equipment that you can start..."
Sewald: "Yes, $350,000 worth. But that doesn't seem to be the squabble now - up
to that point.."
Orton: "Excluding all .the machines,the other things. he want's to do and based on
the plans you have now, and had a chance to look at and even though they are not 100%,
and your review isn't eveh 100% for the same reason, what are the major hazards with
the rest of this if they do the things they say tfieyare wing to do?"
Vern Schoen: "The hulling machine in that area in the most bf it:' I even suggested
at one tune that they get a temporary permit and not even consider the hulling machine.
I suggested that they move it outside and use it someplace else."
Piayor Glaisyer: "Excluding that Vern, what else has to be done to the building, so
he can start conducting his business?"
Schoen: "Except for that?" Piayor: "Except for that"
i ~
P1eridian City Hall - Special Meeting .18. January 25, 1982
Bio-Foods (Cont'd).....
Schoen: "It's pretty much on the plan, red-lined, except for Earls...."
P•1ayor: "Is there any major things on there we have to worry about?"
Schoen: "The Hyster charger would have to be removed into a separate building or
outside. I have it marked off on that. The other things I have listed here are
very minor, stairways and what sized steps, etc., we have a corridor added upstairs,
and I have a couple of little items on the detail - there is no wiring shown on
any type of exit lights or anything like that. That's probably one of the main
issues other than the hyster charger and this room that they had divided off - which
I have went through and listed the things that needed to be done."
Brian Smith: "From the comment, I would say if it wasn't for the huller there would
not have to be any remodeling whatsoever - but again, we don't have exit lights.
`low you could just go in there and get an electrical permit, an occupancy permit,
and be in business. I think that's the way to go."
Councilman Kingsford: "You need exit signs and emergency lighting, is that right?"
Sewald (?): "If we don't change our use..."
Mike Hill: "When he read that earlier I think it was the floodlioht for the stairway.
With no disrespect for any of that, I urould personally like to know - and you, your-
selves can only answer this - would you really like this business in this area -
are you wanting to develop this facility? Or is there some other plans in mind?
Something at the back of me is saying there is something else in mind down the road.
because we certainly don't want to spend all this time and money, which you can
respect, to develop this and now we have a bunch of money in it - and now there is
another snag. This is my concern see - you respresent the community, do you feel
you really want this here. That's all I want to know - you, yourself have to answer
that and there is no disrespect there at all. Idhatever your judgements are they are
definitely sound, but I have a feeling that maybe you don't - maybe you really don't
want this in here - I feel it would be a definite asset."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Do you ~~rant to preclude anything on that Carl?"
Carl Raasch: "I could have a certain lot of responsibility for what might take place
here, of which I already have through the last few years that I have owned the place,
and I do have the warranty deed for it - it's partly up to me what goes in there.
It is zoned Industrial and this happens to be a particular type of industrial oper-
ation that will benefit the City of Pleridian. I have had everything from fireworks
on down - many of them that I have chosen, personally, not to be involved with them
due to fire hazard, that kind of thing right here in the City. I screened a certain
amount of it outside of the books and regulations that you people have chosen for
the regulations for the City of P~1eridian - and yet, we have a good one right now."
Councilman Kingsford: "Mr. Hill, in answer to your question, we are not developers -
at least I thins: personally, I don't care to say who put's what in what building,
it's their building, and I still believe in a Capitalistic system -I would lot's
rather it not be a Church over there because they don't pay tax -but beyond that I
think what you outlined is an excellent program - I'd like very much to see it there.
Again, I think the spirit of cooperation is essential to get it going. The really
important thing is that you set down, get this thing ironed out, we will all know
who is on first and who is on second, and get going. I don't think you find this
body is personally against it at all. I'd like very much to see it there."
f+like I-!ill: "I thank you for your answers."
End of verbatim transcription from Tape due to battery discharge on tape recorder.
Tapes on file with City Clerk, Meridian City Hall.
f1eridian City Hall - S eci 1 Meeting .19. ~~ January 25, 1982
Bio-Foods (Cont'd)............
The Motion was made by Rick Orton and seconded by Ron Tolsma to approve Bio Foods,
located in the Creamery Building 37 East Broadway, Temporary Occupancy for the
remainder of the building covered by plans already submitted with trre exception
of the hulling machine and hyster battery charger and to allow sixty (60) days
for an approved set of flans.
Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Tolsma, yea; Orton, yea
There being no other business to come before the Council the meeting was adjourned.
ATTEST:
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aW na L.JMiema CyEy Clerk