1982 06-07I
~ locatesn: ~ Dieridan Primary S~choal.
I~1 48 9P+~8t .State
!!x"18 #~3i R, Idaho ~ "
date : ~tl~ '?-f "19'8.2r ~'~, ..
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MERIDIAN, IDAY.0,
MOfJDAY, JUfIE 7, 1982, 7:30 P.M.
MAYOR GLAISYER: Good evening, Ladies and
Gentlemen: ~°lelcome to the Meridian City Council
meeting.
I would now call the meeting to order.
If you would bear with us, we have a
couple of small items that have to be taken care
of.
Can we have role call, please.
CITY CLERK: We will have role call of
members:
Mayor Glaisyer?
f1AY0R GLAISYER: Present.
CITY CLERK: Councilman Grant Kingsford?
COUNCILMAN KINGSFORD: Present.
CZTY CLERK: Councilman Ronald Tolsma?
COUIdCILhIAN TOLSMA: Present.
CITY CLERK: Councilman Fick Orton?
COUNCILMAN ORTON: Present.
CITY CLERK: Councilman Bill Brewer?
COUNCILMAN BREWER: Present.
tlAYOR GLAISYER: Okay, gentlemen, you have
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had the minutes of the previous meeting. Are there any
additions, corrections, or deletions?
(No response.)
MAYOR GLAISYER: If not, the minutes stand
approved.
The first item on our agenda this evening
is a transfer of a beer, wine, and liquor license
with the Ylar Eagle Saloon, that is, a transfer to
A1r. Smith, R1r. Gifford, and Mr. Young.
i~le have transfer of a beer, wine, and a
liquor license with the liar Eagle Saloon. This
concerns a Mr. Smith and Mr. Gifford and P~1r. Young.
Chief, have you made the proper
investigations?
CHIEF: Yes, I have.
PIAYOR GLAISYER: Everything is in order?
CHIEF: Yes.
hIAYOR GLAISYER: Gentlemen?
COUNCILh1AfJ BREI•JER: Have proper fees been
paid?
VOICE: Yes, sir.
COUA1CILhIAN BRELJER: I would make a motion we
approve of the change of the beer and wine license
of the ldar Eagle to Messrs. Smith, Gifford, and
Young.
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COUPJCILMAAI ORTOAI: Seconded.
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MAYOR GLAISYER: The motion made, and
seconded, to approve the transfer of the beer, wine
and liquor license to Pir. Smith, Mr. Gifford, and
P1r. Young. Those gentlemen are here present in the
front seats.
All those in favor?
(Aye.)
h1AY0R GLAISYER: Opposed?
( Plo response. )
MR. GLAISYER: Motion carries.
lJelcome to the community.
Next item on the agenda is approval of
the bills.
COUAJCILMAfd KINGSFORD: I move the bills be
approved.
COU1•ICILT°IAN ORTOfJ: Seconded.
MAYOR GLAISYER: Motion made and seconded to
approve the bills. All those in favor?
(Aye.)
h1AY0R GLAISYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
P1AYOR GLAISYER: P4otion carries.
I would now open the Quong-b7atkins
annexation public hearing.
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To start the issue, I will call upon
idayne Crookston, who represents the City of Peridian.
MR. CROOKSTON: t°tayor, City Council, you have
inquired of me to look into the annexation procedures
for the City of Meridian as allotiaed in their
ordinances and as allowed in the state statutes.
You have also asked me to look into the
procedure regarding to the amendment of your local and
Peridian Comprehensive Plan.
So I have prepared this statement, and I
have some recommendations in there, and I will read
them to you.
Pursuant to the Meridian Comprehensive
Plan, as developed by the Ada Planning
Association in conjunction with the Meridian Planning
& Zoning Commission, an amendment is made on the
initiative of either the City Council, private
petitioner, or the Planning & Zoning Commission. One
public hearing must be held after prior notice.
The Commission then forwards a
recommendation to the City Council as to the
amendment.
The City Council then considers the
matter and holds one public hearing after prior
notice. The Council then may adopt or reject the
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amendment. That language speaks to the amendment
procedures as are set forth in the Meridian Comprehensive
Plan.
The plan, however, I do not feel is in
conformance with the local Planning Act pursuant to
Section 67-6509 of the Local Land Use Planning Act,
if the Planning & Zoning Commission does make a
material change in the Plan, it shall hold one
additional hearing after notice.
After the two public hearings, the
Planning & Zoning Commission then makes its
recommendations to the City Council.
The City Council holds one public .hearing
and, if the council then approves of the material
change, it then holds one additional hearing after
prior notice and then adopts the amendment to the
Plan and the new Comprehensive Plan.
If the Comprehensive Plan Amendments as
proposed and recommended by the Planning & Zoning
Commission are not material changes, the proper
procedure, up to this time, has been followed by the
Planning & Zoning Commission and the City Council.
If the proposed Plan Amendments are a
material change if in the Comprehensive Plan, the
City Council needs to send the Plan Amendments
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back to the Planning & Zoning Commission for one
additional hearing, and for the Planning & Zoning
Commission to make final recommendations to the City
Council and for the City Council to conduct its required
procedure.
The question of whether a material
change has been made appears to be a quasi-judicial
question and can only be made by the Planning & Zoning
Commission and the City Council.
It is my advice to send the
recommendations back to the Commission for their input
and decision as to whether or not they have made a
material change.
If the Commission's decision is that
they have not made a material change, they should
immediately send the recommendations on the Plan
Amendments back to the City Council.
If they decide a material change has been
made, they should conduct one additional hearing
after prior notice, and then forward their
recommendations to the City Council for appropriate
action.
It should be pointed out at this juncture,
the Plan Amendments are in large part very distinct
from the Quong-Watkins annexation. Had it not been
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for the Quong-Watkins annexation, this procedure may and
probably would have been necessitated in need fashion.
The procedure on the Quong-L•Jatkins
Annexation is in itself an entirely different matter.
The appropriate procedure is governed Chapter 2 of
Title 50, Idaho Code, and by Section 67-6525 of the
Local Land Use Planning Act.
Under the Local Planning Act, the
Planning & Zoning Commission shall, after notice,
hold one public hearing on the application and shall
then forward its recommendations, including
recommendations, as to necessary changes in the
Comprehensive Plan that may arise as a result of the
annexation, to the City Council.
The Council shall then hold one public
hearing after prior notice and may pass an annexation
ordinance or reject the application.
Concurrent with the".action to annex, the
Council may amend the Comprehensive Plan or to do so
as soon thereafter as possible.
If the annexation necessitates material
changes in the Plan, the dual hearing before
both the Planning & Zoning Commission and the
Council could be required.
Thus, as far as the Quong-Watkins Annexation
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is concerned, it is my advice to the City Council to send
the Annexation application back to the Planning & Zoning
Commission for recommendations as to changes in the
Comprehensive Plan, if any, necessitated by the
annexation.
Also, the Planning & Zoning Commission
is to determine whether or not the changes
necessitated by the annexation are material and, if
they are, to conduct one additional hearing on the
annexation.
Any questions?
COUPICILh1AN KINGSFORD: Mr. Crookston, am I
accurate in my assumptions that this cannot be a
public hearing based on your findings?
A1R. CROOKSTON: It's my opinion that the noticed
public hearing set for this evening on the Quong-Watkins
Annexation would be -- or not or useless, because we
will have to have additional hearings after the Planning
& Zoning makes its recommendations.
h1AY0R GLAISYER: Are there any further
questions of Wayne?
(No response.)
MAYOR GLAISYER: Okay, gentlemen, you have the
recommendation of the city attorney. You can either
approve his recommendation, deny his recommendation, or
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approve with some amendments.
1'--that are your desires?
COUNCILMAN: KItJGSFORD: Mr. t•1ayor, I move that
we accept the city attorney's recommendations, that it
be sent back to P & Z for their recommendation and
consideration.
But beings we have these numbers here
tonight, I would like to at least have the two
developers give comments that would not be public
testimony, but from a public hearing, and limit it to
that this evening.
COUNCILA1APJ: BREWER: I would second that
motion.
MAYOR GLAISYER: Okay. The motion is made and
seconded to approve the recommendation of the city
attorney by returning the 4uong-Watkins Annexation
back to the Planning ~ Zoning Commission for further
input.
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And that for this evening, we invite
Mr. Quong and Mr. Nahas to make a presentation on
their proposals of where they are to date, and that no
further testimony will be taken after both developers
have had an opportunity to discuss their projects.
All those in favor?
(Aye.)
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MAYOR GLAISYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
MAYOR GLAISYER: Motion carries.
So with that, Mr. Quong, I would ask you
to come forward and it's your pleasure to make your
presentation.
MR. QUONG: Mr. Mayor, gentlemen of the council,
ladies and gentlemen: My name is Paul Quong with
Quong-laatkins Property, from Orange, California.
As many of you have known, I lived up in
this valley for many years before moving to
California, and still have family up here.
The reason that I am here tonight for
annexation is to give Meridian and the Meridian area
two choices for the development of a regional
shopping center.
I want Nir. Nahas to know, I think he is
out in the audience there, but I do not want to
preclude his site as a regional shopping center site,
but to give to the city a second chance of getting a
shopping center at Eagle Road.
This in turn will help bring forth the on
and off ramp that was approved by the State in March. li
lde think that if our site is approved,
and we can get moving on our development, there is a good',
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possibility that the Eagle on and off ramp, from private
funding, could be as soon as '84 or '85 when the on and
off ramp is opened.
At this point in time, I would like to
report to the Council and to the general public that
we are in a draft agreement with the Idaho
Department of Transportation that we have agreed to
pay for the interchange study, and the design of
the interchange. And that we have agreed to pay for
the construction of the interchange, and to maintain
that interchange and the approaches to the
interchange for 20 years.
The other thing I am requesting annexation
for this evening is to let the major tenants know,
give them a comfort level, if you will, that this
site is zonable. And that requires annexation,
because I think most of you folks know that we cannot
get it zoned in Ada County.
What I would like to do before the City
Council, and the public here this evening is to review
our annexation route, why we chose one particular route
over another.
There has been some controversy in
regards to this, and I would like to clarify that, if
I may.
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We have started at the request of the
City Council to go on the northern route, and we have
proceeded in trying to accomplish this task.
1~7e have, however, one property owner
that is blocking us on the northern route, so we
decided then to try the annexation on the so-called
southern route, which is south along the freeway,
and west along I-84 to the existing city limits
of Meridian.
I would like to point this route out to
you this at this time: This is the piece of property
that we want to develop as a regional shopping
center site.
This area in yellow is the route that
we have selected.
The lines that you see here in blue is
for water service to our site.
The lines that are in red is our sewer
lines that we are proposing.
Both of those are going along a northern
route adjacent and parallel to the railroad, and it
will help not only to serve our project, but also the
up land industry project here.
Ladies and gentlemen, I propose that
our property be used for the development of a regional
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shopping center in the magnitude of approximately
$70-million for the main portion of the center.
I am also proposing that the peripheral
property be developed in related uses, such as low
rise office, other types of commercial buildings in
the amount of $20-million, for a total development
cost of $90-million.
I will promise to the Council and to the
people of this community that this property will be
used only for that purpose, and will not be used for
any other type of development.
I think in the past that developers have
come into this community and made promises for
certain type of developments which have never come to
pass.
I think that a lot of the people
here have heard so many different stories as what
would happen if a commercial development is adjacent
or near their residence.
We are also concerned with the impact
that we have on adjacent neighborhoods and residents;
therefore, to the best of our ability, what we try to
do is to minimize any type of commercial impact that we
might have.
One of the things is, of course, is to keep
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development away from the adjacent areas, which we will
show you on the site plan later, and to landscape it, and
to provide buffer zones to this regard.
The other thing that we have always
done is to try to anticipate what type of traffic
problems may be created in the immediate area. 14e
have traffic studies made to determine where the
traffic would be coming from, and in what direction,
and in what impact that it might have on the
neighborhood.
We have done this very early on and, of
course, this is the reason why that we felt it so
vital for the shopping center to have freeway on and
off ramp access.
We find that approximately 67 percent of
the total traffic that is generated by our proposed
shopping center would be coming either off of the
freeway, or from a southerly direction over the top
of Eagle Road.
14 percent of this traffic that this
shopping center would generate would be coming from
Franklin Road from the east, or the more populated
area of Boise.
The balance of the population will be coming
from the other direction, and will then impact Eagle Road
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and Franklin Road.
But other than that, what we are saying
is that based upon the best knowledge that we have,
that the area will not be impacted as many of the
residents may feel that it would, because of this
development.
We have started to present our site to
major tenants. tJe have contacted what we think is
the six major tenants that will be suitable for not
only this development, but is interested in
relocating stores in the Boise and the Treasure
Valley.
These are the same tenants that downtown
Boise is looking for, that the Cloverdale site is
looking for, that Mr. Nahas is looking for.
But we think that with everything as
far as being relative to a development, relative to
the political climate for development in this valley
that the Eagle Road site is the best.
The reason why that we have selected
this is because the only chance that I see for
a regional shopping center development outside
of Boise City's influence is with the City of
Meridian.
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I don't feel that a site at Cloverdale is
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zonable, or can have utility brought to it, because
it would have to come from the City of Boise.
I frankly feel that a site further to the
west is not inseparable to the major tenants.
Y1ith this in mind, I would like to
call on our architect to present our plan and show
you folks what our development is all about. Sob?
MR. McCLELLAN: Thank you, 19r. Quong. We have
some slides here. I,r. Mayor, City Council, I don't
know how much time you would like to take.
MAYOR GLAISYER: It's your pleasure.
MR, h1eCLELLAAI: My name is Bob McClellan of
McClellan, Cruz, Gaylord Architects.
t°)ith me tonight is Steve Powers, our
director of planning and design.
L•Je are an architectural firm that has
been around for fifty years. We are from California,
also.
lde have done some 400 shopping centers
and some 25 regional centers.
Mr. Quong has hired us to start the
beginning of a long design evaluation to create a
regional center with auxiliary buildings, garden
offices and amusement, entertainment, financial and
eating areas.
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Steve, since the plot plan is rather
small, why don't we go to the slides.
I think you all know where we are, so we
can move right on.
P1r. Quong mentioned that the Eagle
site, Eagle Road site, was a good location. 1^le agree.
With Boise to the east, and Meridian and Dlampa to the
west, that this is a good location. And with the advent
of the on and off ramp, and the north-south traffic
function from Eagle, it seems to be a good location for
a regional center.
This is the about our third preliminary
plot plan study. At the bottom of the sheet, is the
freeway. To the left of the sheet is Eagle Road.
The top is Franklin.
The major portion of the mall is the
kidney-shaped or sort of a squashed circle in the
middle.
The 110 acres that P4r. Quong has under
control, we have broken down as follows; the regional
will be the lines, 75 acres. And when it's finally
phased out to 65 stores, will be a 1,275,000 square
feet of building. The balance will be taken up with
other commercial and garden office.
This is a closer view of the major visual
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portion of the center.
l!e will have two main accesses into
the parking areas; one off of Eagle Road to
your left, and one coming down from Franklin from
the north.
The light beige in the center of the
six funny angled rectangles up there, the light beige
area is our first design studies on enclosed two level
mall.
The darker brown squares will be our
first studies show where we feel that there would be
65 department stores.
The mall will have three accesses,
so a shopper could look in two directions and see at
least two department stores. This is a larger view
of that.
There will be a large center court for
fashion shows and auto shows, and community events
in front of Department Store D.
The parking is surrounding the main
major portion -- the parking will be surrounding this
part cf the shopping center.
And as you all know, on a two level mall,
you try to create upper level parking and lower level
parking, sort of mid-level, so you can enter the
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department stores from both the upper and lower levels.
This is just a quick picture of the
department store that is called Department Store F.
The reason why we are showing you Department Store
F is that we are planning a single level department
store at this junction. And under it will be a food
court.
A food court is simply a congregation
of all of the food and eating facilities short
of the major restaurants that will be throughout the
mall. I hate to use the word fast foods, but that type
of everything from the Orange Juliuses, et cetera.
This is showing essentially tl:e southeast
corridor of the shopping center as we see it along
Interstate 84.
Opposite the lower level parking, and
opposite Department Stores D and II, we are figuring
an entertainment complex with some small eating
facilities, and sport shops, adjacent to a six-plex
theater.
This is the proposed restaurant row that
we have outside of the circulation road that is off
of the Eagle Road entrance. And in this study, we have
seven locations for and space for seven buildings.
The northwest corridor, once
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again, the Eagle Road access, is down in the lower
left corner. tide are showing a space for a community
fire station, two more restaurants or financial
institutions type free-standing satellites.
And then this plan shows a large buffer.
I think tae have taken a little artist's license
for landscaping above our property line; however,
below the property line, we are planning of a minimum
hundred foot landscaped buffer area adjacent to the
existing residential.
This is the neck, effectually called, up
to the Franklin Road. You can see at the bottom of
the page is the end of the major shopping center.
This area will be primarily designated to garden
office, really two and three story professional
office buildings.
Up closer to Franklin, there could be
some of the subsidiary satellite users that so
often almost always come along with the regional
centers of the lower price stores, the jeans stores,
and that type of commercial.
This again is our first study of Mr. Quong's
110 acre parcel. As I mentioned earlier, we see that it
would phase into a beginning of a three to four
department store, and then adding additional mall shops,
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two more department stores to it, coming up to a gross ofd
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six stores, major department stores.
We have just pulled from our files
at random some shots of some of the malls that we have
done in other parts of the country. Some of these
are one story. However, we are just showing you what
a typical, what you can do with an enclosed mall, the
environment created.
This plan was in Anaheim, California,
indirect lighting, paver tile, a lot of landscaping and
skylights.
This is a two level mall we did in the
Midwest. Once again, a heavy use of skylights and
landscaping, lde hope to think this a fun place for
people to meet and be.
This is a one level mall; however, we
wanted to show you an approach how you can create a
skylight that has a north exposure almost like a clear
store window.
In the center, just starting construction
in the northwest, two level mall, once again skylights.
I guess this is the same mall, looking at
it from a lower level, the two levels of shopping.
This is a one level center again. As
a matter of fact, this was a remodel where we took an
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enclosed mall, and made it into -- open mall, and
made it into an enclosed mall. However, the
landscaping and wood floor, skylight treatment
made it a very happy place to be.
This is another shot of that same mall of
the trees, and skylights.
Two salesmen waiting for you to buy
shoes. I don't know what we have that one in there for.
I guess the tree.
Once again, this mall will have all of
the amenities, quiet places for people to get
out of the main stream of traffic, and sit and
contemplate where they spent their money.
We are going to have an amphitheater and
community events available. This happens to be an
open amphitheater; however, we would have that
type of thing somewhere within the mall.
We caught a shot of a fashion show going
on at one of the centers we had done.
An ice-rink in one of the centers. This is
down in San Diego. It gets a little chilly, but the kids
have a lot of fury.
l•Je just finished another center where the
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food court is adjacent to the ice-rink. This is one li
of those food courts we were talking about. It's a
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common eating area, yet all around the edges are the
eating spaces.
Why don't you keep going, Steve.
This is the inside of a dining car.
I guess we are having a choir singing.
Naturally, we will have an information
center within the mall.
Although we haven't gotten into exterior
design, it's too earlier for that, we do try and
design to the region and to the community, to the
neighborhood. This is a center we did in Ogden, and
everyone seemed to feel towards a railroad theme,
so we did.
As a matter of fact, we had a railroad
car built in the middle of the food court. That
was a slide we had a little earlier, people eating
in there.
Along with the skylights, we sometimes,
and in this case, have stained glass panels to create
color patterns and textures on the wall and floor.
A piece of art work at one of the centers.
Just some more of the ambience of the
walls and around the eating areas.
I think that's about it. Once again,
landscaping, skylights, wood finishes. This is how
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we see the regional center for NIr. Quong in this part
of the country.
If there is no questions, Mr. Mayor,
I will conclude.
MR. QUODIG: Ladies and gentlemen, after you
have viewed what we plan to do here, you can see the
size of the mall, and type of materials, and type of
interiors that we are proposing at this mall.
I think that you probably then will
have questions as to, is this going to be a large
traffic generator, more than what I am talking
about before, and what direction and how many cars
will this generate, and I would like to now call on
John hiatzinger to discuss that further with you.
T9R. hiATZINGEF.: Thank you, Mr. Quong.
My name is John Matzinger. I am a consulting engineer
and president of CTM Company, working in concert
with Potter & Associates, local engineering company,
on the project assisting Tor. Quong in some of the
more technical localized aspects.
I came prepared tonight really to make a
presentation to the council, and my visual aids
probably aren't big enough for the whole group
to see, but we will improvise as best we can.
For the members, I have some smaller
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versions of that to give you a little better view.
ldhat you have before you is a
miniaturization of the -- miniature display we have
for this size group -- but essentially, in an east-west
direction, the dark band, of course, is I-84, and you
can pick out the cross roads as you go from east to
west.
VOICE: Little louder, please.
MR. MATINGER: Yes, sir. The east-west band,
the heavy one, is I-84, the main connection route, and
the vertical lines are the north-south cross roads,
h"eridian Road being on the far left followed by
Locust Grove Road, Eagle Road, Cloverdale,
Five tile, and so forth, into Boise City.
Of course, the key to this whole proposal
as far as the transportation aspects are concerned is
the highway department, State Highway Department's
recent decision to grant the approval of a new
interchange to be located at Eagle P,oad.
As Mr. Quong mentioned earlier, the
shopping center development and the developers would
work in concert with both the state and the local
highway departments in providing those improvements.
Those improvements would be a full scale interchange
allowing on and off access in a both east and west
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direction, as well as improvements along Eagle
Road in the north-south direction, on a portion
of Franklin Road and, of course, on a portion
of Eagle Road to the south.
Interesting feature or interesting
consideration that has come along is the ability to
remove a portion of Highway 30 from the state
highway system that now flows through heridian. As
you know, Highway 30 comes through Meridian off
Fairview Road and terminates or at least joins the
intersection -- interstate highway system at the
existing interchange.
Through this proposal, the state would
delete approximately four miles of existing
Highway 30, reroute that Highway 30 along the
reconstructed Eagle Road; thereby decreasing the
traffic impact on the downtown Eagle area.
Other interesting aspects are the
percentages of traffic which would be attributable to the
center or generated by the center. The rough vehicle
count is somewhere in the neighborhood of 70,000 trips
per day. That sounds like an awful lot, but one of these
centers provides quite a large impact.
The interesting thing about the impact
is that it would be located in an area which is
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remote from any developed community.
In other words, we are taking this impact
and placing it at that interchange rather than in the
City of Eagle -- or in the City of Meridian, excuse
me, or in the City of Boise, for instance.
The percentages of people traveling
would be 39 percent in a westerly direction,
essentially coming from Boise along the interstate
highway; 16 percent coming from a west direction;
12 percent coming from a south direction.
And then if you will visualize the
plan back here or the one that was posted earlier
on the view screening, there are two entrances to
this particular center; one along Franklin
Road, the other one along Eagle Road.
These entrances really preclude traffic
from that section of Eagle Road that is currently in
a residential area. Traffic is diverted generally into
the southerly entrance off of the interstate, or in the
northerly entrance off Franklin Road.
Thereby it appears that this particular
proposal is well suited for this particular area in
so far as mitigating traffic impact.
I would be happy to answer any questions
that the council may have if this is a question and
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answer session. If not, thank you.
MAYOR GLAISYER: Thank you, John.
P4R. QUONG: P•1r. Mayor, City Council, ladies
and gentlemen, I have always stated from the
beginning that any development in your city should pay
its own way, and I would liLce to state that once again
for the record, that we are prepared to provide to the
City of h:eridian one fire station on site, a fire
engine, two police cars, a well that we now have on site
to augment the city system, and we are providing for the
extension of the water and sewer line in conjunctions
with other property owners in that area out to our
site. This is not at the cost to the City of P•teridian.
Your current taxes in this taxing
district is approximately $150-million. This is the
assessed valuation in this taxing district.
1Je are talking about development
here in the amount of $90-million. This will have an
impact to reduce your city property taxes in this taxing
district by 23 percent.
It will also increase the city revenue
by $75,000 annually.
There has always been a question in
regards to the utility impact, especially the sewer
impact on our development. I would like to have our
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engineer come back and address that point very
briefly. John?
IdR. MATZINGER: Thank you again, Pir. Quong.
In addressing the utility network that is required for
a development such as this, we looked at several basic
areas; of course, the transportation system we
previously talked about.
PJext we looked at the water system. The
developer had a study done by JUB Engineering about a
year ago. We reviewed that study and generally
concurred with its findings.
Its findings were that the site be
served by a well or water system of its own, and
that that system be intertied with the City of
P1eridian's system.
This has a couple of definite
advantages; number one, it makes the system provide
all the water that it really needs from its own
source and supply;
Secondly, it interties and backs up the
city system. This works for both the development and
the city as we have an intertying of the two systems
and joint strengthening.
As Mr. Quong indicated, the extension
means would be paid for by the developer.
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Another advantage of this particular
approach is that it extends in an easterly direction
which would provide for orderly growth of the city as
it expands towards the east.
Next we looked at the sewage collection
question, how do we get the sewage from this site into
the City of t~teridian.
As it turns out, the city has constructed
both new mains and sewage treatment plant within the
last five years. These are in an underworked
capacity, so to speak. There is excess capacity in
both the sewer line and the sewage treatment plant.
Our routing, and I guess maybe that
other one would show that better, the routing,
gentlemen, is proposed to follow the red line
basically from the sewer which connects on existing
gravity mains. As Mr. Quong said earlier, this will
provide service to adjacent areas.
As a matter of fact, the capacity of the
existing line is listed by your engineers of
approximately 1.2 MGB. Ode anticipate that the center
will consume about .2 MGB, thereby leaving about million
tons a day, excess capacity in the easterly valley region
along the Union Pacific Railroad tracks.
That area is serviced by gravity,
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no pumping stations will be required.
And again, P1r. Quong has mentioned
the cost of the extension of the mains will be
provided for by the developer.
Lastly, we looked at sewage treatment
once we collect this waste from the center, what do
we do with it, and there we ran into some little bit
more detailed consideration.
The existing treatment plant capacity
through the remodel of the treatment plant in Peridian
is approximately 21,000 population equivalence;
population equivalent is one of you or me.
Right now it is being used at the rate
of about 7,000 population equivalence. So obviously,
there is quite a bit of expansion room.
A rough figure in population equivalence
are often used not only for residences, which is
pretty easy to count you's and me's, but is also used
to establish the sewage flow and strength from
commercial and industrial areas through different
parameters.
i^!e made an analysis using that funny
colored thing up there determining the amount
of land in Meridian that had been annexed for a
particular use, and that particular use carries with
it a population equivalent rating.
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We found that the City of Meridian
through its zoning activity had zoned approximately
4,000 acres of property, and that it had allocated
approximately 50,000 population equivalence in sewage
treatment capacity.
Does that cause a problem if we only have
twenty-one capacity; no, not really, because the
treatment plant in its design is readily expandable, and
all of these population equivalence obviously aren't
going to come on line at one time.
To be more specific in considering the
shopping center, we find that the shopping center
itself has a land area of approximately 190 acres.
As I said before, the city has zoned
approximately 4,200 acres, so the amount of land that
we are talking about bringing in would be
approximately 5 percent of the totally zoned and
comrzitted area.
In terms of population equivalent, as I
said, there is approximately in that area spoken for
50,000 population equivalence. We calculate that the
population equivalent of the center is
somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,700; that ratio
turns out be about 3 percent.
In other words, it's just a comparison
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for impact, the center would have approximately
3 percent of the allocated sewage treatment plant
capacity.
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To talk about not only the allocated, but
what we really have, we are talking about 21,000, we
probably are looking at about, oh, 15 to 20
percent of the treatment plant capacity.
So our conclusion is from an engineering
standpoint, yes, the treatment plant capacity does
exist now, and if it had to be expanded it could be.
Lastly, we talked about the cost a
little bit. The city presently charges a fee
of $750 per residential hook-up for sewer and
water connections.
If we go back to this population
equivalent again and say there are approximately
three people per home, in each population equivalent,
approximately $250 per P.E. and we are talking about 6800
coming from the shopping center, you can see one times
the other yields a pretty good sum of money.
And the developer proposes that a hook-up
fee be worked out with the city on using that basis.
i
That pretty much sums it up for the
utilities. I think that working with the city in
this regard is the only way to go. The city has the
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capacity and it definitely is to the city's advantage
to use some of this impact to bring some of
the lines into more remote areas, which is a seed
for orderly growth.
Thank you.
P~1R. QUOrIG: As stated by our engineer, I
would like to restate once again, we would pay for
the sewer, hook-up, and other fees, in connection with
the development of our shopping center mall at Eagle
Road.
The other thing that I have always talked
to different people in the City of Meridian in
regards, especially to the mayor, and some of the
other city officials, is cahat type of community
service can we provide the citizens here? 4Jhat is
son'~ething that is needed in this community that we can
provide, either at the mall site or elsewhere?
4~te have proposed at one time to provide
a senior citizen community center at the mall site.
Plow, we were told that that may be too
far from the downtown area where a lot of the senior
citizens are.
I am proposing that we would provide a
senior citizen community center in downtown if
this is where you folks want it.
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One other issue that has cropped up more
recently that one of the city councilmen is concerned
with, and what effect, and this is what effect would a
regional mall of this size have on the volunteer fire
department in the City of P4eridian and in this fire
district.
Lde have been checking with the Idaho
survey and rating bureau, and the two gentlemen from
that bureau is here this evening to answer any questions
that you may have, either the council or the general
public. I think the net effect is it would not have a
lot of significant impact on your rating, but they can
spell that out in more detail if you wish this
information.
The major tenants that we have been
discussing and have met with over the last several years
in regards to this site are as follows: Penneys, Sears,
ZCh1I, Lamonts, Mervins, the Bon, Nordstrom s. These are
the major tenants that we consider are viable candidates
for a regional mall in this area.
tae think that any development
here caould have to have at least one of the two mass
merchandisers, either Sears or Penneys as the anchor
tenants. This is what we are working towards at
the present time.
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We had a joint venture, as most
of you folks here know, with different mall
developers, and their primary job was to bring in a
major tenant to this site. Some of the people that
we have joint ventured with has not been able to do
that, and one has dropped out.
Ide had been seriously negotiating over the
last month with a second one that we hope would be able
to provide a major tenant commitment to our project.
The P1e1 Simon Company is the one that we
had been negotiating with, as Joe, as you know, and
we had met with them at the ICC convention two weeks
ago at Las Vegas. They told us at that time that
they could not commit a major tenant to our site.
For this reason, we told the Niel Simon
Company that we would have to talk to other developers
so that we can find a major tenant that would commit to
our site, because this is what I told him that we had
promised to the City Council in an agreement with them
that was signed over a year ago, that they want tenant
commitments prior to our annexation hearing.
And because of his non-committal in
being able to bring a tenant to our site after
bringing him to this area, he has now decided to
develop Mr. Nahas' site either in conjunction with
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him or through a purchase.
Now, whether he can do this, I really
don't know. I only know of the experience that we
had with him in our recent meetings.
Ladies and gentlemen, in closing,
this is what I would like to try to do with the
annexation and zoning, is to be able to get an
expression of annexation which in turn would give me
the zoning that I can develop this mall. I think
that it would help procure the major department
stores that I needed to bring in for this
development. This would bring up their comfort
level to let them know that if they do come into the
site, that they can be annexed.
And to the City of t9eridian, they
will have utilities, and have the zoning.
Z think additionally, what this
annexation will do for us is that it will provide
us with the funds for the Eagle Road on and off
ramp which could come as early as 1984, or '85.
It would create employment for this
area that is so badly needed. lde expect that this
mall will create 2,000 permanent jobs and 500
part-time jobs just from the operation of the mall.
This is not counting the construction portion of the
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work that is to be done.
As all you folks know, this is the
type of jobs that are needed here in this valley
now. ide need to turn this economy around. But this
type of employment, this type of development goes
further than that. With the number of people that we had
planned to be employed here, there should be a payroll
of around $40-million that would be generated for this
project.
ude anticipate that the department stores
would have $90-million in sales. The shops will have
approximately $20-million in sales. This would bring
another $110-million worth of sales into this area.
You can see what physical impact that
this type of sales would have on your school
district, because sales tax, part of your sales tax does
go to the school district.
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As I mentioned before, this type '~
of development will reduce your property taxes in
this taxing district by 23 Percent, but I think more
importantly than any other thing by having this
particular site and having Mr. CJahas' site at
Peridian Road, it will give the city two viable
options for a development of a regional mall in
the City of Meridian.
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I think there is a good lesson to be
learned with the City of Boise; they have precluded any
other mall development, except for the downtown area.
I hope that you folks can see this, and
o~ill realize that having two options in the city
is better than one after what they have experienced
over the past seventeen years.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MAYOR GLAISYER: Thank you, Mr. Quong, for
your presentation.
I am advised once again by our city
attorney that the public hearing has been canceled,
and that the only reason we are allowing the
presentations is that the developers are here tonight
and brought some of their technical people. So again,
the public hearing is closed.
htr. Nahas, would you please make
your presentation at this time.
h1R. NAHAS: P4r. P•1ayor, members of the city
council, ladies and gentlemen, can you hear me.
That was an excellent presentation we
just listened to, but I missed about half of it,
my hearing is not too good, and I want to be sure
that everybody in the back row can hear what I have
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to say.
I am not here to criticize hir. Quong or his
presentation. I have been in the development business
for 35 years and it's a matter of eithics with me that I
have never criticized at a public hearing a potential
competitor's development.
I would like to talk to you about our
own, however, and I have some other exciting news
for you. But before I get into that, I would like to
talk a little bit about past history.
lie bought this property in 1972. We
borrowed a lot of money on it. 1de had partners. lde
paid interest for a long time, X12,000 a month for
over five years.
I had a partner who became irripatient, I
bought him out;
The bank became impatient, I bought them
out;
You say to yourself, well, why didn't
you build a major regional shopping center out of this
place, because you have had ten years of opportunity
to do so?
The truth of the matter is that
developers don't make the final decision with
respect to major regional shopping centers. P~7ajor
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tenants make those decisions. And unless you get
Penneys, and you get Sears, and you got P;ontgomery
(lards, you get ZCAtI, you don't build shopping centers.
And the plain truth of the matter is
those tenants have not been willing to commit
themselves until now. I think now is the time to
present cases, and I'll tell you wYiy in a few
moments.
Incidentally, not building a shopping
center in the Treasure Valley doesn't put me in a
minority position, it puts me in a majority position.
I have distinguished company; Boise Cascade,
Dayton-Hudson Properties, Winmar, Ernie Hohn, Harry
Daum, I could go on, and on, and on, and on. It isn't a
malady peculiar to me.
The second criticism that I have heard is
why haven't you communicated more with the people of
Meridian?
dell, I have been in development
business for 35 years, and I have been in the ranching
business out in Owyhee County for about 13, and I have
learned more from those ranchers in the 13 than I
learned in the 35 years I have been in the
developing business.
And one of the things I learned is you
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don't talk when you don't have something to say. And
we haven't had anything to say.
41e hired the Dayton-Hudson properties --
to go back a little in history: we had Montgomery ldard
committed. They were bought out by Mobil Oil. And
as a result, they dropped their commitments in all
areas other than major metropolitan areas.
YIe had htervins committed. I had a
commitrient signed by Mervin Morris, the owner of the
chain. He was bought by Dayton-Hudson Properties.
They made other commitments and dropped out of
the situation.
I hired Dayton-Hudson Properties when
they were a subsidiary of Dayton-Fludson.
They then spun off and began other
companies.
And I hired them, because they had had
extensive experience with the development of regional
shopping centers. I hoped that by doing so, I would
be able to expedite the time I would be able to
build this center.
Their contract recently expired, and I
told them I would not renew it. Not because they
haven't made some progress, they have. As a matter
of fact, we had a signed commitment, one of the
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tenants that h1r. Quong mentioned a few moments ago,
and we have verbal encouragement from others, so
we haven't been sitting still.
The most important thing that has
occurred, however, is that we have formed a
partnership with Melvin Simon and Associates. This
has been done during the last few weeks.
One of the reasons why I have been so
steadfast in my desire and ambition to build a
shopping center on that site, because it is a natural
place to build it. It's tied in with the existing
corridor of Meridian, and will give the city a focus
and identity they wouldn't have otherwise, and I have
a copious study to prove it. It cost a lot of money
by experts coming in from the outside.
So with that in mind, the Mel Simon Company,
and let me tell you something about them, they are the
second largest shopping center owner-managers in the
United States.
They have designed, constructed and
managed more than 115 shopping facilities in 22
states. And they currently own and manage over
31-million square feet of shopping malls.
These shopping facilities house over 3500
retail and service shops. Included in the
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developments are all major anchor tenants.
k'e believe that now is the time. The
time is right for those national retail tenants to
come to Treasure Valley.
They made a study of this area and they
wrote me this letter -- and incidentally, I didn't go
to them, they came to me. I have a friend of 25
years, a man by the name of Parshall Bennett of
Bennett and Conwiler in Chicago, and he's very
familiar with these people. And they came to me
through him. They called me out at my ranch.
I have been president of the urban land,
used to do it in the past, and Marshall and I worked
together for many years in that organization.
Dear Eob, dated June 2nd, 1982, as you
are aware, we have made several trips to Boise and based
on our investigations, have arrived at several
conclusions that not only told us that a regional
enclosed mall was viable in this market, but that your
property at N;eridian Road and I-84 was the obvious site
for the mall to be located.
First and foremost is the crying need
for this market of a modern enclosed regional mall
that can service the entire Treasure Valley.
Due to the physical characteristics
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of the trade area with the major population from the
centers of Boise to the east, and PJampa-Caldwell to
the iaest, it is evident that the mall should be
located equidistant and on the interstate connecter.
Our choice of your site and
associating ourselves with you was a natural
selection given the facts of the property's ideal
location within the trade area, it's existing
zoning, it's existing interchange access to Interstate
II4, and existing utility services in place.
With a high cost of development today,
the time and expense that is saved by having the
interchange and utilities already in place is the
decided advantage over alternative locations with
these improvements yet to be accomplished and,
therefore, joining you with the most logical course with
P1elvin Simon and Associates to follow.
What excites us in the major retailors
that we have discussed this situation with, is that they
have very few market areas of this size in the United
States not served by a modern regional mall.
The Treasure Valley area is promising
from a retail point of view, because of the stability
provided by the seat of state government, headquarters
for a number of major national corporations, and
46
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the lack of major retail competition.
Bob, we are looking forward to
developing a project that both of us and the people
of Treasure Valley will be proud of, one that will
effeciently satisfy the needs of the area for a long
time to come.
Incidentally, they handed me a check in
the median of six figures to back up their desire
to form a partnership with us. They are not coming
into the partnership empty handed.
Within 60 days, we will have a press
conference, where these people vrill have pictures,
diagrams, that will be available to answer questions
with respect to tenancies, times, and so forth.
I am very excited about it. It's been
a long haul not only for you, but for me.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
h1AY0R GLAISYER: l~iell, since this is not a
public hearing, I guess the meeting is closed.
And gentlemen, I would entertain a motion
to that effect.
COllbICILhIAN KIfIGSFORD: I move to adjourn.
COUNCILt•1Atd BRE4JER: Seconded.
h1AY0R GLAISYER: Motion made, and seconded to
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47
adjourn. All those in favor?
(Aye.)
MAYOR GLAISYER: Opposed?
(No response.)
P4AYOR GLAISYER: Motion carries.
Thank you, very much, ladies and gentlemen. You will
be notified of the next public hearing.
(The proceedings adjourned at 8:45 p.m.)
-000000000-
J E L I YER
ATTEST:
I
~x~r~
L Jana L. Niema n, C' y Clerk
I
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3
4
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Meridian City Hall 49. June 7, 1982
VOUCHER DATE AMOUNT
2321 6-03-82 U.S. Post Office 77.00
2322 6-08-82 Roger Welker 199.50
2323 6-08-82 Bob Moore 141.50
2324 6-08-82 Raymond Voss 320.25
2325 6-08-82 Ron Parks 139.50
2326 6-08-82 Bob Giesler 52.50
2327 VOID
2328 6-08-82 Jerry Rice 142.50
2329 6-08-82 Fd Harper 11.00
2330 6-08-82 Kenneth Crawford 226.50
2331 6-08-82 Bruce Stuart 363.00
2332 6-08-82 Bill Luke 62.50
2333 6-08-82 Mike Losh 41.00
2334 6-30-82 Robert Welker 182.50
2335 6-08-82 Dean Mayes Jr. 158.00
2336 6-08-82 Rich Meyers 185.00
2337 6-08-82 Kenney Bowers 270.00
2338 6-08-82 Don Burton 149.50
2339 6-08-82 John Giesler 130.00
2340 6-08-82 Randy Moore 164.00
2341 6-08-82 Gary Newberry 124.00
2342 VOID
2343 6-08-82 Wayne Skiver 153.50
2344 6-08-82 Mahammad Alidjani 95.50
2345 6-08-82 Ken Virden 129.00
2346 VOID
2347 6-08-82 Roy Berto 112.00
2348 6-08-82 Ronald Tolsma 44.00
2349 6-08-82 Harold Hudson 179.90
2350 6-08-82 Tan Vincent 12.90
2351 6-08-82 Bill Carroll 72.40
2352 6-08-82 Fireman's Association 336.00
2353 6-08-82 Raymond L. Voss 830.00
2421 6-09-82 Idaho First National Bank 9,136.36
2422 6-15-82 Bill Brewer 335.30
2424 6-16-82 Idaho First National Bank 12,284.00
2427 6-23-82 Lynette Peters 382.90
2429 6-23-82 Idaho First National Bank 13,863.64
2430 6-25-82 U.S. Post Office 854.80
2431 6-25-82 u.5. Post Office 24.00
2432 6-29-82 Bryan Ward 187.00
2433 6-29-82 Allan J. Ward 95.22
2434 6-30-82 Gary Smith 1.00
2435 6-30-82 Cindy Nichols 250.00
2436 6-30-82 Q.R.U. 336.00
2437 6-30-82 City of Meridian 63.94
2438 6-30-82 Idaho First National Bank 20,764.28
2439 VOID
2440 VOID
2441 VOID
2442 6-30-82 Vernon Schoen 316.28
2443 6-30-82 Association of Idaho Cities 2,780.23
2444 6-30-82 Colonial Insurance 965.05
2445 6-30-82 Public IInployees Retirement Systan 5,409.56
2446 6-30-82 Al Thorusen 63.21
2447 VOID
2448 6-29-82 William Blair 525.21
2449 6-30-82 Association of Idaho Cities 36.31
2450 6-30-82 State of Idaho 1,288.49
2451 6-30-82 Farmers and Merchants State Bank 4,229.85
2452 VOID
2453 6-30-82 State Auditor, State of Idaho 5,821.05
2454 7-08-82 U.S. Post Office 296.82
2456 6-30-82 Ace Sign Co. 585.00
2457 6-30-82 Ada County Civil Defense 946.47
2458 7-30-82 Ada County Weed Control 180.50
2459 VOID
2460 6-30-82 Barger-Matson Auto Salvage 79.07
. ,
Meridian Cit Hall 50. June 7 1982
VOUCHER DATE
2461 6-30-82
2462 6-30-82
2463 6-30-82
2464 7-30-82
2465 6-30-82
2466 6-30-82
2467 6-30-82
2468 6-30-82
2469 6-30-82
2470 6-30-82
2471 6-07-82
2472 6-07-82
2473 6-07-82
2474 6-30-82
2475 6-30-82
2476 6-30-82
2477 6-30-82
2478 6-30-82
2479 6-30-82
2480 6-30-82
2481 6-30-82
2482 6-30-82
2483 6-30-82
2484 6-30-82
2485 6-30-82
2486 6-30-82
2487 6-30-82
2488 6-30-82
2489 6-30-82
2490 6-30-82
2491 6-30-82
2492 6-30-82
2493 6-30-82
2494 6-30-82
2495 6-30-82
2496 6-30-82
2497 6-30-82
2498 6-30-82
2499 6-30-82
2500 6-30-82
2501 6-30-82
2502
2503 6-30-82
2504 6-30-82
2505 6-30-82
2506 6-30-82
2507 6-30-82
2508 6-30-82
2509 6-30-82
2510 6-30-82
2511 6-30-82
2512 6-30-82
2513 6-30-82
2514 6-30-82
2515 6-30-82
2516 6-30-82
2517 6-30-82
2518 6-30-82
2519 6-30-82
2520 6-30-82
2521 6-30-82
2522 6-30-82
2523 6-30-82
2524 6-30-82
2525 6-30-82
2526 6-30-82
2527 6-30-82
2528 6-30-82
2529 6-30-82
2530 6-30-82
Bodine Oil Co.
Boyd Martin Co.
Byran Jackson Pump
Campbell Tractor &
City of Boise
Capitol Computer Corp.
City of Meridian
Consolidated Supply Co.
CTM Engineering
Culligan
Grant Kingsford
Rick Orton
Ronald Tolsma
Datafax Business Frn ii ~[lellt
Davis Body Shop
Farmer Bros Coffee
Farm Store
Frontier Tire
G&B Ready Mix
Giesler's Auto Repair
Harold's Electric
Handy Hardware
Idaho Dept of F]nployment
Idaho Sporting Goods Co.
Idastries
Idaho Fire & Arson Investigators Assoc.
Idaho Paging
Idaho Tractor
J-U-B Engineers
Idaho Power Co.
Intermountain Gas Co.
Kalbus
Kustom Quality Electronics
Iacaery-Miller Inc.
McGraw-Hill Book Co.
Mayne Pump Co.
Meridian Drug
Meridian Ford Sales
Meridian Office Supply
Dr. Charles L. Meyers
The Michie Co.
VOID
Modern Printers
Monroe
Paul's Conoco
Perms-Green
Robert's Construction
Sav-MOr Drug
Schmidt Construction
S&E Auto Parts
Sheehan' s
Don's Shell Service
Sparling Division, Envirotech Corp.
State of Idaho Dept of Labor
Sterling Codifiers Inc.
Steve's Radiator
Sundance Dodge
Sunset Sport Center #8
Tates Rentals
Tolsma Welding & Repair
Town & Country
Treasure Craft Decals
Tucker & Associates
Valley News
Water Pollution Control Federation
Water & Waste Water Equipment Co.
Water Works Supply
Woodman's
Zamzows
Boise Sewing Center
Division
Implement Co.
AMOUNT
2,250.00
32.41
158.70
20.35
182.50
433.25
115.60
486.64
167.47
56.40
566.80
421.30
578.80
74.35
64.46
145.20
61.45
103.95
486.10
805.03
68.51
15.93
2,160.02
71.30
21.45
10.00
108.00
260.71
4,007.58
8,219.44
76.76
187.11
124.13
3.15
69.54
200.00
143.57
375.28
7.68
26.00
88.24
65.60
39.95
25.40
89.50
961.00
12.60
4,955.00
144.39
6.70
673.10
104.82
548.05
44.00
10.00
122.00
188.54
25.00
102.00
993.57
72.00
121.25
78.31
52.50
126.67
129.10
56.00
38.07
40.00
=, ,
Of Meridian
51.
VOUCFIER DATE
ANK)UNT
2532 VOID
2533 6-30-82 Mountain Bell Telephone 729.37
2534 6-30-82 Meridian Insurance 9,129.00
2535 6-30-82 Ambrose, Fitzgerald, Crookston, Mclam 3,721.25