1981 04-20
AGENDA
Meridian City Council
April 20, 1981
ITEM:
Minutes of the previous meeting Approved
1. Richard Poisson, American Field Scholarship Student
Durbin, South Africa -Presentation of letter to Mayor Glaisyer
2. Appointment of Chief of Police Richard Douglas Nichols
3. Total Transportation Services, Inc. Conditional Use Hearing
APPROVED
4. Milton Subdivision Preliminary Plat Hearing - TABLED
5. Linder Industrial Park Annexation "D" - APPROVED
6. Gem Estates Final Plat - TABLED
7. Department Reports:
Wastewater Supt report on Locust Grove Sewer Line
Fire Chief report on need for equipment
8. Interim Billing, J-U-B Engineers, Inc. - HUD Grant Application
APPROVED payment of $1,437.57
9. Other Business:
Public Works E. Carlton Water Project report
Public Works Equipment Bid result
10. Urban Sewer Boundary Proposal - Planning and Zonfing Commission
Annette Hinrichs, Chairperson presents recommendation
Meridian City hall April 20, 1981
Regular meeting called to order by Mayor Joseph L. Glaisyer.
Councilmen present: Richard Williams; Grant Kingsford; Bill Brewer; Rick Orton Jr.
Others present: Vern Schoen; Earl Ward; Rich Poisson; Jan Jones; Gary Schaffer;
Ray Sotero; Steve Gratton; Bill Eley; Lawrence P.ackham;
William ICnickrohm; Walt Morrow
Agenda
1
Agenda
2
Plinutes of the previous meeting were approved as read.
Rich Poisson - A.F.S. South Africa
Poisson stated that he was staying here on an American Field Scholarship and was from
the City of Durban, South Africa.
Before he had left there he was given a letter by his Mayor to hand over to the Mayor
of this community.
As Poisson handed the letter to Mayor Glaisyer he stated "I do not know what it says,
but I hope it is good" which brought a round of applause. Mayor Glaisyer stated
that the letter was addressed "His Worship, The "layor of ~^eridian, Idaho"
Poisson: "I want to say that I couldn't ask fora better family, community or school
to be sent to."
Mayor Glaisyer (reading letter): "Dear Mr. M1layor, this letter is to introduce you to
Mr. Richard Poisson who is representing the City of Durban through the American Services
Program. He will have been living in your City approximately one year and I am sure
you will find him an able representative of our own people and interested in gaining
knovaledge and understanding of your country. Any courtesy you could extend we greatly
appreciate. In the City of Durban it is our endeavor to oromote exchanges of friend-
ship and good will between people from all parts of the world with the thought that
these exchanges should do much to promote and improve relationships between the people
of our respective countries. I send you my personal good wishes fora happy and
successful term of office with hope that teridian and it's citizens will enjoy a
happy and blessed future.,. Yours sincerely, Counselor Hayden Bradfield, Mayor of
Durban, South Africa."
t4ayor: "I will return a letter to him with thanks and thank you very much."
Richard Douglas Nichols - Appointed Chief of Police
Bill Brewer and seconded by Grant Kingsford
City of Meridian's Chief of Police
^,otion Carried: Williams, yea; Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Orton, yea
The Motion was made by Police Commissioner
that Richard Doglas ldichols be appointed as
as recommended by Mayor Glaisyer.
Agenda NEARIPJG - Total Transportation Services, Inc. Conditional Use
3
Williams "Bill" Eley was present to request a Conditional Use Permit for Vehicle
Leasing service which is required by City Ordinance.
Eley: "We rent, lease and sell heavy duty trucks and trailers. We feel there is a
strong need in the Treasure Valley area for our type of service. There is no real
competition other than the Ryder Truck Rentals. The industry is a very professional
industry - high dollar and high volumn business - We have to maintain a professional
appearance at all times. Our main concern is to serve the community with a heavy duty
truck fleet that is available for daily and weekly route. We are in the Commercial
zoning area, the Mountain View Equipment location (Dobaran Annexation) 521 E. First
and we have contacted and filed the permission of property owners within 300 feet."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Bill ,the Ada County Highway District requested that you provide a
stop sign at the access to Highway 69 - have you done that?"
Eley: "I was not aware of that request but I have no problem with that."
Kingsford: "Is that property a Sub-lease now?"
Eley: "A two year sub-lease from Mountain View Equipment."
Brewer: "I think their exposure sc far has been very professional, I certainly approve
of it."
Williams: "P4r. Mayor, my company has had dealing with Total Transportation, Bill and
his people, and I think they will be good members of our community."
leridian City Hall .2. April 20, 1381
Agenda (Cont'd) HEARIPlG
3 Mayor Glaisyer called for Public Input concerning the Conditional Use for Total
Transportation Services. There was none.
The Motion was made by Williams and seconded by Orton that the Conditional Use Permit
for Vehicle servicing be granted to Total Transportation Services, Inc. located at
521 E. First Street.
Motion Carried: Williams, yea; Brewer, yea; Kingsford, yea; Orton, yea
Hearing closed.
Agenda
4 HEARING - Milton Subdivision Preliminary Plat
Mayor Glaisyer: "The Engineer for Milton Subdivision called and requested that
Milton Subdivision .Preliminary Plat be tabled until the next meeting.
Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to make a public comment on Milton
Subdivision, would you please address the Council at this time?" There was no
response.
Hearing closed.
Agenda
5 Linder Park Industrial
Walt Morrow was present to represent the individual landowners in Linder Industrial
Park. Bill Knickrahm tags present to fill in for Ron VanAuker who was out of State.
Linder Industrial Park conists of approximately 135 acres as is located West of
Linder, North of W. Franklin and South of the Railroad Tracks.
Morrow: "The last time we met the main concern was with the wet line of the sewer
system and the service that can be had by that. We have researched that and have
found that approximately the eastern 40% of the Park can be serviced by wet line
sewers. This area conists of 35 acres that is currently zoned M-1 Industrial
in Ada County, the remaining portion belongs to Boyd Baxter Farm. The remainder of
the Park cannot be serviced by gravity flow sewer lines to Linder Road. Therefore
we are proposing a three part solution. First, that all phases be required as a
Conditional Zoning to have wet line sewerinq. Secondly, any developer, or a developer
with any phase, shall in accordance with the current Meridian Sewer Plant install
the standard lines, the lift station and the pressurized lines that are necessary
to service that area. Third, as a interim measure, we would like permission to have
these phases that can be serviced by wetline sewer proceed with the active recruiting
of Industrial Users for that area. This does a couple of things.- one it gives the
smaller parcels which range in size from 1 to 14 acres the right to pursue smaller
users - second, the remaining portion of the park, with the zoning, can take that
zoning and the figures for the sewer line and present them to large Industrial Users
so that they can .begin to make their financial plan and either .gives a yea or nay
when we begin actual recruitment for those people. The third item would be-at the
present time the sewer line comes from here to there which would have to be out in.
There was also, when this is ready for development it is entirely conceivable that
other phases along in here will be developed and the sewer line would be smaller in
size."
Bill Knickrahm: "What you are seeing here depicted is nothing more than a compilation
of your existing proposed Meridian Sewer System. This is not an interim lift station
that we are generating, it's not a proposal that in fact was of our design, but rather
reflects designs prepared by J-U-B Engineers under Federal Grant. We are not talking
about any alteration of the now proposed Meridian Sewer System. Second I want to point
out, when you talk about utilizing the ground - the portion that can be wet line sewered-
none of that is property owned by people you see before you. However, we think in a
doctrine of fairness it seems imperative to us that the City design and implement
policies to govern it's growth. But within those policies it also seems as an element
of fairness that the City give every opportunity for potential residents, or members
of the City, work within the governs or confines that we create. What I am suggesting
here is really nothing more than doctrine competition. !+Ihat you have here is within
the confines of would I think I perceive as your design for the City of Meridian,
how you focus Industrial ground in your overall Comprehensive Plan to implement that
dian Citv Hall .3. April 20. 1981
Agenda 5 (Cont'd~
policy within the limits that you set. As I understand it is the City's prerogative
to say "we want only wet line sewer - we have no monies to put in all of the
elementary systems that we require to make the City say" - so you can do that by
following this proposal. It allows you to use existing facilities~ith the maximum
potential, it also puts a parallel requirement on any user in this particular parcel
that if they want to comply, they have to comply with your requirments that is build
wet line sewer. So it accomplishes both - it gives the opportunity for the Park to
grow and develop and give the City of Meridian immediate users, at least potential for
immediate users, without going against the grain of your sewer policy. It would
also give influence to new growth and give us an opportunity to seek other people
which can then extend the sewer line that can be used by an immense number of people
and in fact residential users in Cherry Lane Village later on. It has several
benefits. We are pleased with the result - we think this is a responsible look
at what can be done on your existing policy. "
Mayor Glaisyer: "Any questions from the Council?"
Williams: "I see nowhere in our plans thouJh-that we have discouraged pressure
systems and we have a proposal for a master lift station at Ten Mile, Black Cat and
Ustick. A lift station thereto me - a pressure system is not feasible for
maintenance from the City's standpoint. We have a fairly reasonable budget, we have
adhered to no lift stations, where possible that there will be a gravity system down
Ten Mile in the future - I think we're putting the cart before the horse because I
don't think the City has the resources to maintain those lines and I quite frankly
don't want to see a lift station - not at that point, at this juncture - and a mile
pressure system for everyone else, I don't think it is feasible for the City."
Knickrahm: "I can't address technically to that Dick, I presume it is feasible
because we followed JUB -"
Williams: "There wasn't an intent of a pressure line down Ten Mile nor is there an
intent to have a lift station at that point - that Master Plan that Rick was involved in
was to go down Ten Mile."
Rick Orton: "There were some interim lift stations planned in the sewer plan and they
were designed for instances like this. The City Council at that time were thinking
of development occuring from the core, outward. We knew that there would be a couple
of places along the path that would have to go over humps. So there were a couple of
lift stations planned and they were in the Master Plan - they were put in there for
purposes similar to thus."
Knickrahm: "That is the reflection of the now published plan - that`s the way the
plan now shows - a lift station at that point and a pressurized line"
Earl Ward, Wastewater Sup"t: "In the meantime - that was 1977, we are looking back
at a plan that has been somewhat reviewed - we can't service every small area with a
small lift station."
Glaisyer.:' "Rick, is there a certain point out there that there will be a regional
lift station, that would benefit the majority of the people?"
Orton: "No, the only regional lift station is the one Dick was referring to, which
would be another mile to the k~est."
Ward: "Everything south and west of Nine Mile - you get on the other side of that
creek and you are a little low out in that area. Everything on the southwest end."
Kingsford; "What happens Rick, when you have like this is an interim thing and you
have a pressurized line - how does that fit in with making service connections,
after becoming gravity?"
Orton: "The interim lift station plan was to build them for what was upstream and
sizement for geographical area upstream from them that isn't currently served. Then
as development would occur downstream the main trunkline would be built and pretty
soon you would be able to turn that lift station off like you did the one over
in Washington Square and it would be all gravity." __
Kingsford: "So basically what they out in would be of no value to the City at such
time that main trunk line was put in?"
Orton: "At some point in the future we'll yank that Dump and controls out and try
and sell them. The only value the interim lift stations were to the City, in the
dian City Hall .4. April 20, 1981
Agenda 5 (Cont'd)
planning stage, was to allow development to occur in that manner - rather than get
ourselves in the situation like we have across the Freeway, where we can't get any-
thing done to get that area served right. This is away to progress outward over
those humps that occur between the natural drainage ditches."
Knickrahm: "One other problems we face in other areas around the state is the 1% issue,
it's significant limiting factor on City government. Because you had a fixed budget
and your options at growth were if you grew you tended to simply reduce the tax burden
per rata as growth occured, which isn't an incentive for growth. As an example,
suppose you have this Park, or any other Park, and you bring in a user - what happens,
as I read the Ordinance, that they will take the fair market value of the new property,
based absent ground, of the new structure. They will then take 50% of that value and
that will be the tax base on which you assess your fees - so if you have a $500,000
building you'll get value base of $250,000. You now have a mechanism which wasn't
existing before, to accrue monies. My second point is, Industrial Parks or any
Manufacturing concerns, in my opinion, has greater economic value than almost any other
type of development for City trying to raise dollars. The reason is that their values
are quite high and their demands upon City services are correspondinc~1y, in my opinion,
fairly well. There is not a great demand for Police protection services. Generally
those industries have their own security. For the Fire standpoint - 6y our prospective„
you fire sprinkle the premises significantly reducing the risk major fire or calls to
fire service departments. So what you have is that an Industrial Park is an opportunity
for the City to raise monies greatly in excess of those demands that would be placed
upon the City in return of the services. So it becomes a cost benefit analysis -
I have a lift station and it may cost me some money to maintain - 1 may impose that
upon developers - that`s an option the City still has, but it .also says I am getting
a benefit that I didn`t get before."
Mayor Glaisyer: "What you say is partly true and I would love to sit down and argue
with you - and could all day long - but the numbers just aren't there. Most of the
things you said are true, Industrial Use is the least costly to the City - but if you
want to run what the City actually get's in dollars, and what the costs are going to
be - irrespective of the lift station - I think you'd tie surprised."
Williams: "As I understand, the Legislature has allowed the City to raise their base
by 5% a year"
Mayor: "Or, as he has stated, whichever is greater. So in effect if you do have some
big industrial users, you can acquire more money than the 5%."
Williams: "But, for example, if inflation is at 10%, to stay ecstatic the City still
winds up 5% in the whole every year i'f you have 10% inflation.°
Mayor: "Not necessarily. Tf you start to get big businesses in here then our assessed
valuation is going to go higher than 10-5%"
Williams: "My question with. the Industrial land that we have now - are we going
to be able to survive promoting growth?
There was discussion concerning the tax base and cost benefit analysis.
Kingsford: "I still have some serious problems with the sewer. You have a pressurized
line that you're going to abandon - the policy of the City has been that a developer
will put sewer and water utilities past their property line. If you (.Linder Industrial)
put in a pressurized line and then say 5 yrs. down the road, it's feasible to abandon
that - who runs the new main sewer line past there - we don't have the money to do it.
You're going to say "well, we've already provided it",but still it doesn't fit with
what our preference is."
Knickrahm: "Generally your policy has been those that use it - pay for it."
Kingsford: "Who's going to pay for that mile of sewer?"
Knickrahm: "We are, we will be required to. To be truthful it's more than a mile -
more than another 1800 feet."
Kingsford: "If that's going to eventually be gravity why put a pressurized line there?"
Knickrahm: "I presumed it had to be one, because that's what the plan we saw called
for. We looked at the City of Meridian Plan - it showed a lift station."
Orton: "The plan called for an interim lift station and pressured line to get under
the hump now, and as that lines built on further to the west and the north, and chunks
get put in by independent property owners, developers, whoever, there would be a point
where we would nearly, ideally, be able to hook i't up - but practically speaking would
never work totally, there would always be a little gap in the checker and then when
Meridian City Hall ,5. April 20, 1981
Agenda 5 (Cont'd)
the Council decided to hook that up then they would have to come up with funding
for those checkers and probably for the main lift station."
Kingsford: "So you are saying the sewer would be routed on down Franklin, to
Black Cat and then pressurized over - that there will never be a total gravity line?"
Orton: "That is correct. Gravity lines will follow the drainages - that was the plan."
Mayor: "Earl do you have any comments?
Ward: "That the topography and that's what we have out there - if you go fora regional
you go for a lot of little lift stations, for individual pockets."
Orton: "How many of these are in the current plan?"
Ward: "Off-hand I would say around a half of dozen - depends how far you want to go."
Orton; "And of course if we change our Urban Service Planning Area several of those
will be dropped out if we drop that south-western portion on Urban Service Plannina."
Orton: "Our current Comprehensive Plan calls for this to be industrial use?"
Morrow: "Tt does"
Mayor Glaisyer called for further comments.
Fire Chief Welker: "Relating to the statement on the Fire sprinkling, there is other
things to take into consideration. One is the type of the building, the other is the
water flow demand and supply available for sprinkler systems and fire fighting -
and the third is that we don't have the equipment. We don`t have the equipment for
an area this size and require a purchase of another fire truck."
Chief of Police Nichols: "The Police Department will need more people to cover for
patrol."
Brewer: "I do not like being so negative that we can't overlook some of these things -
granted, I know our Police Force might be slim and our Fire Department aren't prepared,
but these people are not about to come out and develop all 135 acres of this off the
cuff anyway. I can't help but keep thinking that supposedly growth pays it's own way
and if we sit here and continue to vote negative and say it's not going to pay it's
own way - we are never going to get a blasted thing here in town. I think if this is
to grow in parcels, if it goes, and the City starts reaping some of the benefits then
we can afford to do a few of these things that the area is going to require - and
I'll gamble on it."
Mayor: "What do you estimate the evaluation to be at completion?"
Knickrahm: "Probably around one-half million per acre - that"s fairly conservative.
Say a 60,000 sq. foot warehouse including land might be a million and a quarter to
a million and one-half - that would consume outside, parking etc. Times that with
135 acres - so you are talking about 60 million dollars on a conservative estimate."
Orton: "Their land use conforms for planning, their sewer proposal seems to conform
to our planning - I'm sure they will follow the water plan."
The Motion was made by Orton and seconded by Brewer that Linder Industrial Park
Annexation request and Zoning "D" Industrial be approved.
Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Orton, yea; Brewer, yea
Williams, nay
Williams: "I don't think the numbers are there. I think this Council should very well
sit down and look at the l~ and run some numbers on some of these projects and find out
what it costs. I'm a business man, like these gentlemen are, and I will not invest in
something that's going to cost me $1,000 and then I sell it for $500.00. I think we
have some facts very, very wrong and should look at some numbers."
Mayor: "Gentlemen you are now Annexed." Hearing Closed
Agenda
6 Gem Estates Final Plat
Mayor: "Our Engineer Gary Smith is not present tonight but I understand he has no
problem with the Final Plat. Earl?"
Ward: "All they have not completed, as far as I'm concerned,is the payment repair.
I have no idea what the cost will be"
Meridian City Hall
Agenda 6 (Cont'd)
it 20, 1981
Attorney Crookston: "The only question that was raised when I talked to Gary was
whether or not Gem Estates Hearing prior to Subdivision approval. And the question
came up whether they had Final Plat approval back in 1973. They will have to go
through that Hearing procedure again."
Kingsford: "Is there any way at all for the City to go ahead and grant this Final
Plat? How does it benefit us - because it sure isn't what they originally set out
to have - or even close. I can see it benefiting the owners - in what way would it
benefit us to Final Plat?"
Crookston: "It will be easier to discuss that property as Lot and Block."
Kingsford: "The Reeves Estate is still included as Lot 2 Block 2, -"
Crookston: "Well that's the other question as to whether all the property owners
have signed this plat. This is the biggest question."
There was more discussion concerning the fact that the Final Plat had or had not been
approved or filed.
The Motion was made by Kingsford and seconded 6y Brewer to Table Gem Estates Final Plat
until the next meeting.
Motion Carried: Williams yea; Brewer, yea; Kingsford, yea; Kingsford, yea
Agenda DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
7
Wastewater Supt Earl Ward: "The progess on the Locust Grove sewer line is satisfactory.
They will have a problem though, if they don't come up with the railroad crossing
easement - they are going to have to stop."
Fire Chief Welker: "The more people we take in the more need some pre-planning on
equipment."
Agenda
8 Mayor Glaisyer; "We have an Interim billing from J-U-B Engineers, Pnc. for the
HUD Community Block Grant Application, the sewer rehab on the older part of town.
The Motion was made by Kingsford and seconded by Williams that the billing from
J-U-B Engineers, Inc, for HUD Community Block Grant Application request in the
amount of $1,437.57 be approved,
Motion Carried: Williams, yea; Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Orton, yea
Agenda OTHER BUSINESS:
9
Under other business Brewer commended Leroy Nelson, the operator of the Meridian
Speedway, on the opening day races,. Brewer stated Nelson had the track interior
looking better and that speedway had been handled professional.
Orton reported that"they did have a test on Locust Grove We11 and it is showing
unacceptable levels of iron and tepidty, those are perameters that may disappear
after a lot of pumping. We will just keep an eye on that."
Orton: "The bids were let on the water project on East Carlton and he is about 80%
done at this point. He was the low bidder and come forward with his bonds (.Dean Crane
Construction, Huntington, Oregon). We have two houses on that line that hooked up
from behind previously - this water line will be out in front, At least one of those
property owners got this project confused with the HUD project and thought that this
project was going to put the service line from their property line to the old meter,
which would be on private property. The intent of this project is not to do that -
we bring the line to the property line and install a new leader if necessary,
Bruce Stuart: "T`ve got her squared away on that"
Orton: "We'll drop that now"
Orton: "We took bids on the equipment. If we sell all the equipment that was
reasonably priced we end up with about $4,800. The items that we did not get decent
bids on were pumps, motors and discharge bases which we'll scrap out for more than
was bid on them. In the bid which. we haven't aborted at this point was the Pick Up and
the old dump truck. The Pick Up we had in our 6udgetthis year to replace anyway
but the dump truck is somewhat of a question - do we want to sell it, we are only going
to get $235.00 - that's why we haven't awarded the bid yet. We need a good dump truck
Meridian Citv Hall
7
it 20. 1981
Now, we have the option keeping that old truck and trying to work on it or trying to
find a way to finance a new dump truck. Anew one is apx. $12,000-$15,000.
Mechanics have advised not to mess with it, no matter how much money is put into it
we would never be satisfied.
Stuart stated that he used the dump truck a lot.
Orton stated it is not safe on the road because of the brakes.
Orton: "The only source of funds that I can think of that we might obligate toward
a new truck would be some of the funded depreciation that we set aside last year.
It's a piece of equipment that we just can't get along without."
Stuart: "The old one is 30 years old and I think we would be wasting our money."
There was discussion concerning the economical solution.
Mayor Glaisyer instructed Public Works to get some specs and look into obtaining a
new or used dump truck.
Agenda
10 Planning & Zoning Recommendation on the Urban Sewer Boundary
Annette Hinrichs presented the Council with the Plannino & Zonino`s map showing
their recommendation for sewer boundary.
Hinrichs: "Commencing at the corner of Black Cat and Ustick Road going South along
Black Cat Road to Ten-Mile Drain, along Ten Mile Drain to Linder, then along City
Limits until it hits Ten Mile Drain again then straight south to the Freeway, east
to the City Limits, south straight to one quarter mile south of Overland, then
straight east to the oresent City Limits around Meridian Greens, straight south to
the southern most City Limits, then straight east to Locust Grove, then straight
north to Franklin, then east midsection line between Locust Grove and Eagle Road,
then straight north to Ustick and back to the beginning. A couple of places we
follow right along the City Limits - south of Center Valley and right on the south
of the piece we have in south of Overland and right along south of Meridian Greens."
Williams: "The southwest corner of the section there (.Crestwood Ten Mile and Crestwood
Gregory Annexations) are not included within this boundary. I suggest we go Ten Mile
to Linder and then straight down Linder to Overland - this would take in this whole
section."
This proposed boundary would be closer to conformance of the Comprehensive Plan.
Mayor Glaisyer: "Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to bring business
before the Council at this time?" There was no response.
The Motion was made by Williams and seconded by Kingsford that the meeting be
adjourned.
Motion Carried: All yea
Attest:
Cipy Clerk ~
pc: Mayor & Council
City Clerk
Planning & Zoning Commission
City Treasurer
Attorney
Bldg. Inspector
Ea r1 Ward
Bruce Stuart
Fire Dept.
Police Chief
Engineer
AIC;APA;ACHD
Central Health
Ada County Zoning
Ada County Commissioners
Nampa-Meridian Irrig.
Gus Hein, School Supt
Statesman
Va17ey News
Agenda Files