1981 06-15
AGENDA
MERIDTAN CITY COUNCIL
June 15, 1981
ITEM:
Minutes of the previous meeting held June 1, 1981 APPROVED
1. HEARING - Vacation of Lot 2, Timothy Subdivision
Treasure Valley Baptist Church TABLED
2. HEARING - Meridian Park No. 1 - Square Footage and Covenants
APPROVED
3. Leisure Lane (NOTEBOOM ANNEXATTON) Alpha Omega Request
for Building Permit and Residents Input on
Water and Sewer connection -TASK FORCE APPOINTED
4. Don A. Watia - 323 West Idaho (Westview Addition)
Request Family Home Construction on East 1/2 pf Lpts
7 and 8 in Block 7. DENTED
5. OTHER BUSINESS:
Meeting set with Sim Coleman ret DVY'Constructi,pn
Intermountain Gas Company proposal adopted for Gas Inspect?ons
Meridian City Hall ~ _^ ~ _ June 15, 198 1
Meeting called to order by Mayor Joseph L. Glaisyer at 7:31 P.M.
Councilmen Present: Grant Kingsford; Bill Brewer; Rick Orton Jr.
Richard C. Williams Absent
Others Present: Roger Welker; Bruce Stuart; Earl Ward; Buddy Hoffman; Hugh Mossman;
Bud Robinson; Bruce Huber; Mr. R Mrs. Roundy; Theresa Holady ;
Wesley Holady; John A. Williams; W.E. Holady Jr.; Carolyn Holadyl
Don Watia; William Aaron; Jean Aaron; Nila Williams; C.W. Callom;
Elmer Adams; Gary Schaffer; Gerald Mattison; Steve Gratton;
Gary Smith; Doug Nichols; Wayne Crookston; Jim Bransen
Minutes of the previous meeting were approved as read.
Agenda HEARIPJG - Vacation of Lot 2, Timothy Subdivision TREASURE VALLEY BAPTIST CHURCH
1
Hugh Mossman, Attorney at Law, 509 West Hays Street, Boise, Idaho was present to
represent Treasure Valley Baptist Church request to vacate Lot 2, Timothy Subdivision
located on East Overland within the City of Meridian Impact Area.
Mossman: We are asking under the State procedure, State Code, for vacation of a
Subdivision lot, or a part of a Subdivision. We are asking that Lot 2 of Timothy
Subdivision be vacated. This Subdivision is within a mile of the Meridian City limits
and gives you jurisdiction rather than Ada Count,'.' It is located between Meridian-
Kuna Road, Locust C,rove and between Overland and the Freeway. "Lot 2 has been owned
by the Church for a couple of years and they would like to build a church on that lot.
The statute really doesn't provide any kind of standard guidance for you to make this
decision. It merely provides that certain kinds of forms be given. I submit the
proof of Notice the statute and here are the original and copies of our affidavit
of service for mailing certified letters of the notice to property owners within
300 feet. Your record will also reflect that two people have submitted letters of
protest of the vacation and I might comment on those. Walter Johnson has written
and Jack Riddlemoser, Attorney, has written on behalf of Mr. and Mrs. Hoyt Dobson
who own three of the lots in Timothy Subdivision.- I think in a way the substance
of both of these letters offer support for what it is we are asking you to do.
I think they both verify that the Subdivision in it's present form is really not
useful for residential ourposes. That's the problem that the Church is having
frankly, they want to build a new Church facility out there and the residential
covenants anplicab1e in this Subdivision dont allow it, so they want to remove
themselves from the Subdivision so they can build the Church. Most of the objections
that are raised here by these letters are, I don't think, the proper subject of this
meeting. They are zoning questions - whether the use is allowed or not - they are
traffic questions - and I think all of these issues have been fully addressed in
prior hearings. The Church has already applied to the Ada County Highway District
and received approval to vacate the proposed street that would have served their
lot, and some of the others, and Mr. Dobson at least, was present through his
Attorney at that hearing. As a matter of fact, he is participating in a partial
vacation of one of the proposed streets in the Subdivision. The Zoning questions,
whether this use is proper for this particular lot I think would be more properly
addressed in zoning hearings. The Church has applied for and received a Conditional
Use Permit from the County to build a Church on this lot - and I don`t think anybody
filed a protest for the use of the Church on this lot. Unless the Council could find
that this is somehow effecting somebody's property right beyond the zoning question
and the Highway District question that has already been raised - there shouldn't
really be much basis, I would hope, for a denial of this."
Mayor Glaisyer; "Hugh, the covenants read - and I haven't read the covenants -
normally require a three quarter percent amendment by the property owners.
Have you succeeded that?"
Mossman: "No, that was tried 6y the Church initially but because Mr, Dobson owns
half of the lots himself, and he was opposed, it was virtually impossible to get
the required change in the covenants that way, The Church was left in the position
of taking a chance of proceding with development that Mr. Dobson, or someone else,
would try to sue and enforce the restrictive covenants - or seek some other method
Meridian City Hall __ _ .2. _ June 15, 1981
Agenda 1 (Cont'd)
to get out from under those restrictive covenants. I advised them to do this, to
get out from under the Subdivision, remove themselves from the Subdivision and there-
fore the residential covenants would no longer be applicable. The irony of Mr. Dobson's
argument, I think, that he has suggested in the letter that the covenants be enforced
but yet both he and Mr.Johnson are saying that this really can't be a residential
subdivision, it's no good for residential development. The Church is ready to proceed
with some form of development, let us let them out from under the covenants so that
they can get on - and if the other people out there want to come forward later on
with some other kind of non-residential development - light industrial, whatever -
that can be addressed then with the proper zoning hearings. I don't think the
restrictive covenants should be a factor in this hearinn."
Mayor Glaisyer: "I don't agree in that area. If someone should come in across from
where I live,and want to do something that the restrictive covenants prohibits,
and if he could come down to City Council and ask for a vacation - I don't think
that protects the rights of the people. The covenants were a recorded instrument.
If the people there wanted to change the restrictive covenants I a~ould be all for it.
Apparently they don't want to and I don't think the City has the right to oversee
that."
Mossman: "I think that would be true in most cases. All I'm asking you to do is to
look behind the covenants in this case. These covenants are purely residential
covenants. The covenants that are giving the Church a problem say that no one,
no lot owner, can build anything on this property other than a single family home -
and yet, the only people out there apparently opposed to this are Mr. Dobson and
Mr. Johnson are not asking for residential protection - there's no residential
development out there, I think there is only one home on one of the five acre lots -
so it really isn't a residential Subdivision. I really don't think the covenants
are applicable in the sense that you are speaking of for the protection of the neigh-
borhood. They have admitted in the letters themselves that it isn't a residential
subdivision."
Wayne Crookston, Attorney: "My only comment is, as I discussed with Hugh some time
ago, if the covenants are normal restrictive in use type they are documented,
they are not deed restrictions. The only thina_ that we discussed was whether or not
you could do it this way. I said if they were deed restrictions that an original
subdivider sold on to Mr. Dobson, or the Church, and included in the deed rather
than referenced as a restriction then I don't think you can do it. But since it's
a restriction on the Subdivision instead of each particular lot, they can probably
do it. I don't think there are any guidelines to follow, it's just the matter of
Whether or not the Council wants to do it. It's the same type of action as Primrose
(Marcum Developers)."
Mayor Glaisyer: "But when they record these documents and if you are a buyer you
have full well knowledge of the intent of the lot. When you get a title policy
isn't that listed as an exception? That you have recorded covenants that such and
such a date?"
Crookston: "It isn't shown as an exception but as a use restriction - that's true."
Glaisyer: "Isn't that part of the deed then? Aren't you actually encumbering the
deed when you except the covenants and restrictions?"
Crookston: "To the extent of the use restriction, that's right."
Grant Kingsford: "To pursue that a little further, when the Church bought this
weren't they aware of this restriction being placed on the lot?"
Mossman: "I will let Buddy speak to that - I have not been involved in this at
that point. I think, when I talked to Pastor Hoffman about it there was some question
in his mind at that point as to whether typical residential restrictive covenants
prohibit Church use. Frequently churches are thought of as being a mixed use in
a residential neighborhood."
Kingsford: "As far as our zoning that would be true, but it wouldn't apply for
restrictive covenants."
Mossman: "No, and for that reason I'm not sure whether it was known before -
certainly not all of the owners out there, of these five acre parcels are opposed
to this. The main opposition is coming from someone who .has control over three of
them." There are six lots in the subdivision.
Meridian Citv Hall .3. June 15, 1981
Agenda 1 (Cont'd)
Mayor Glaisyer: "So Mr. Dobson owns three, Mr, ~lohnson owns one ~"
Kingsford: "In order for this to pass you would have to have approval of one other
owner besides yourself?"
Buddy Hoffman: Yes, we have support of one that owns the property next to us,
the people that own the kennels on tfie other side, although are not included in that
subdivision, have expressed approval of the project: It seems to me that the reason
we approached this Board was because it was one of the easiest way to go about it.
There is still a possibility open to going through an open litigation, It has gone,
upon occasion, to Supreme Court whether residential restrictions can prohibit the
building of a Church. Whether that infringes upon the person and their rights or not.
And the Supreme Court did rule in favor, that it did infringe upon a person and his
rights. But the pro b1 em we see here is that it is an unreasonable encumbrance of
ground. What has been given here is that these gentlemen know that this is not going
to turn into a residential subdivision. When you take the number of people surrounding
the property owners and if you include ourself, there`s three against two. There is
two that agreed with us that it would be all right. As a matter of fact, some of them
feel very strongly that we should build, Two of them think that they would rather not,
would rather in essence keep that to themself. Any of us if we had the choice of having
someone live next to us or having an empty lot there we would choose to have that
extra lot there. If we don't own that lot we shouldn't expect that just to lay in
nonuse. The building that we have proposed here is one that is absolutely necessary
to our Church. We are now meeting at the Locust Grove Grange Hall on Victory Road
and last Sunday we had 192 people in that Grange Hall - we were busting out the seams.
We want to build it here, excellent location and very accessible, we think the
building will be a very bright spot. We have received unanimous approval from the
Highway District - Mr. Dobson argued there that it will be a detriment to his land
but they all agreed it would not be a detriment to his land at the hearing at Ada
County. There was absolutely no one that registered even a letter of protest whether
that should be approved for a Conditional Use Permit and it seems to me that would
have been the forum that should have been addressed whether a Church had the right
tro be built there before it was granted a Conditional Use Permit - and if they didn't
want it built they should have addressed it there. Essentially what we're doing here
is trying to avoid a legal entanglements before we start construction, We believe we
are on good solid legal grounds here, There have been cases where Churches have been
going in and taking houses and turning them into Churches and the property owners in
that area taking them to court whether that was a breaking of a restrictive covenant
or not, and there have been cases that they have thrown those out. We are not looking
for any type of entanglement and one of the reasons we came here."
Mayor Glaisyer: "My last comment would be that I am trying to keep the City out of legal
entanglements and my position would be that if we went ahead and approved this we would
right in court with you. I can see problems with this,"
Hoffman: "Do you not have the authority to declare a vacation of a particular lot in
a Subdivision?"
Mayor: "I dont think morally we do if the property owners are not in agreement."
Hoffman: "Are you talking about morally or legally?"
Mayor: "Both, Pirst of all you have a set of restrictions that has been recorded -
a legal document-:and I don't think the City Council has the power to override that
document."
Hoffman: "We are not asking you to override a document ~ we are asking simply for you
to either declare us in or out of that Subdivision and we think sufficient circumstances
have changed since that document was written."
Mossman; "I think that the proper position for the City to take is to completely
remove itself from the restrictive covenant question one way or the other,- I don't
think that should really be the issue. that is private remedy that's available
between private parties ~ the City has nothing to do with that except that it provides
the means for the covenants when it approves a Subdivision to begin with. Our
argument here is that the purpose of this Subdivision particularly lot 2 has ceased
to exist. It was platted as a residential Subdivision. There is documentation from
the parties opposing this in front of you now, and we certainly agree with it, that
it cannot be used for residential purposes and is not going to be used, nobody out
there had that in mind. Our argument to you is this, set aside the restrictive
covenants, all we want is a portion of that plat vacated because it is no longer
useful for the purpose for which it was platted. You created the plat - you can
vacate it. If the covenants were the only way to address issues like this, then
Meridian Citv Hall
4
15. 1
Agenda 1 (Cont'd)
my questions would be why would this provision of the State Code Chapter 13 of Title
50 clearly provides for the Council to do this, it doesn't say anything about 3/4 of
the property owners or participation by anyone else. It requires notice. I think
it clearly gives the City Council the ability to do this - If you would find that the
justification for the plat no longer exists. I think the record is quite clear in this
case to support that."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Hugh, why is it that Mr, Dobson and Mr, Johnson, who don't believe
it's residential use, blocking this?"
Mossman: "The answer is simple, because they have in mind a higher use -meaning
light industrial or some sort of heavy commercial industrial usage. Mr. Johnson
mentions that in his letter and I think they feel that they would have more difficulty
getting that if there was a church out there than if there wasn`t a church. What they
are doing is trying to get you to enforce their residential covenant to make it easier
for them to develop industrial,"
Kingsford; "As a matter of legality, our purpose here is being within our area of
impact, is it one to be of yeas or nays or rather to be advi;sgry capacity to the
County Commissioners?"
Crookston:"Plot in this procedure."
Kingsford: "That was the case with Primrose. We have to be consulted, we have to
give opinions within areas of impact but we don't have final determination - at least
that has always been my thought. We have to right in either a yea or nay letter to
the county and they act upon that - maybe on our recommendation or maybe not."
Crookston: "To be honest with you I can"t remember what we did on Primrose."
Kingsford: "Mr. Mossman alluded to the fact that we have power and established the
Subdivision - we didn`t establish the subdivision - I'm not sure we have the power
to do away with it. We //. consulted and have input on it but it's not in the City."
should be
City Clerk: "We have an Ordinance on file where we vacated Primrose"
Attorney Crookston: "Yes, that is right."
Mossman: "I do know that Ada County has changed their policy on this within the last
six months or year. P called them and talked to Conrad King before h filed a petition
with Meridian.He said inra uncertain terms that the County would have nothing to do with
this - they don't want a petition filed, they don`t want anything brought to them -
it's totally up to the Meridian City Council. I' think that is the way the Code reads."
Kingsford: "We couldn't approve the platting of a subdivision in that mile area - "
Mossman: "You do have approving authority within the mile. If your ordinance is
different from the County then your ordinance prevails within one mile of the City-
talkina about subdivision ordinances. For purposes of vacation the statute clearly
says that the City has the authority within one mile - and I'm sure that is the way
the County is interpreting."
Kingsford: "I would like to have some research ground before I make any kind of a
determination. l really question that seriously."'
Attorney Crookston: "I can understand that Grant, I do recall specifically there's
a statute particularly for the City and one for the County for Plat vacation.
But I think you are right to find out exactly where we stand. I haven`t looked at
since we did Primrose."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Any other comments from the Council?"
Kingsford: "t would just like to comment that I agree with Joe`s comments earlier,
I recognize that it could very likely be that the condition of that subdivision has
changed but at the same token if Mr. Dobson or Mr, JohnsO~ come in and asked to
vacate this for light industrial, I think I would still 6e inc1i'ned to say they have
to have 100% participation to do that. Protective covenants are to protect property
owners - T would be very bitter if my backyard neighbor was able to vacate and put in
a Kennel, or something of that nature."
Hoffman: "You couldn`t say that those situations have changed since that subdivision
was plotted?"
Kingsford: '!I couldn't say - I haven't researched, it's not in the City but until
such time that the covenants are abandoned by all the members, that they vacate the
Meridian Ci
Agenda 1 (Cont'd)
.5.
e 15. 1981
whole subdivision, I would have no problem with that. If everyone's willing to vacate
the Subdivision - great. I feel this is just a way of getting around restrictive
covenants and I have a bad feeling about that."
Rick Orton: "I also have a very bad feeling about sticking my nose in a private
contract and the covenants are part of a private contract between the landowner and
whoever they bought it from - and their neighbors. We wouldn't want to get involved
in changing the conditions of those sales. I'm willing, like Grant, to wait and see
what our exact legal position is."
Bill Brewer: "I agree"
Kingsford: "If the final decision rests with the County I would be inclined to offer
a "no opinion", but if the final decision rests with us I think I would have to be
opposed."
The Motion was made by Rick Orton and seconded by Kingsford that the Vacation of Lot 2,
Timothy Subdivision be tabled until the Council receives a legal opinion from the
City Attorney.
Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Orton, yea; Brewer, yea
Hearing Closed.
Agenda Meridian Park No. 1 - Square Footage and Covenants
2
Mayor Glaisyer: "Hearing open for Meridian Park No. 1
Joe Osier: "Mr. Mayor and Council, I am representing Meridian Park and at the time
we had approval of Meridian Park Subdivision the City was requiring the minimum square
footage of 1350 sq. feet. Since that time subsequent action has been taken by your-
selves to downgrade that requirement and fall back into a formula that will allow
houses from 1000 sq. feet up. In accordance with that formula we have realigned
our Subdivision square footage requirements, we have changed our covenants and we
ask your approval at this time."
Kingsford: "Joe, how come we do not have these lots completely designated?"
Osier: "Those are not improved lots. We have 59 lots developed at this time."
Kingsford: "This was not in the final platting?"
Osier: "It was, but we went back to the County Highway District and got a special
consideration with them not to bond on those lots, which is still in effect - and we
cannot get bonding on those lots until such time we are ready to finish the Subdivision
and at that point of time we will be required to put up additional bond."
Orton: "On those blank lots, you would still be under the old ordinance. Then when
you decide to come up to the standards of the new oridnance you would bring that in
for submittal?"
Osier: "Yes. It is our intent at this time to include these 26 lots with the
remainder of the subdivision that would be to the south down here (Osier demonstrates
map to Mayor and Council) and at that time will ask for new covenants as a second phase."
Kingsford: "I assume that these percentages meet with our standards?"
Osier: "Yes, they do." "This is in the covenants."
Mayor Glaisyer: "Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to comment on
Meridian Park No. 1?" There was no resoonse
The Motion was made by Kingsford and seconded by Brewer that the restrictive covenants
be amended on Meridian Park No. 1 as outlined on the plot map as presented.
Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Orton, yea
Hearing Closed.
Agenda Leisure Lane - Noteboom Annexation
3
John A. Williams was the spokesman for Leisure Lane residents.
Williams: "I represent Leisure Lane Water Corporation and there are several questions
we would like to ask. This goes back to probably 1977 when a lot of us moved into
Meridian City Hall _.6. June 15, 1981
Agenda 3 (Cont'd)
that Subdivision. We asked at that time if we were going to be annexed into the City
and we were told at that time, no. Come to find out two years later, through the
process of trying to sell our house, we were in the City with no notification to any
of us at all that we were being put in the City. This Corporation or the people that
live on Leisure Lane would like to know what's going on down there so we can have a
vote on it. We were strictly opposed to it when we talked to the people down here
at that time. Now we find out that there is sewer and water that is being processed
to be put down there. From what the letters say we are going to have to put them in
with the Engineer's specification and everything - put it in, pay for it - widen the
street and then turn it back to you people. I talked to Mr. Ward some time back and
he said we wouldn`t have to do this. Apparently we have another letter coming back
due to the fact that somebody found out about it. Due to the fact of the price and
everything - there's ten people which I represent - Mr. Roundy is on his own - we
cannot afford to put that in. There's two of those nine people that are living on
Social Security, that leaves the rest of us to bear the burden of putting it in -
there is one house that is vacant and we don't know what is going to happen to it.
We would like to know where we stand."
Mayor Glaisyer: "I'm not sure what was discussed in 1977 because I was not on the
Council at that time, nor was anybody here, so I can't go back that far. I think it
was in 1978 that we made an analysis of the City limit as far as enclaves in the City -
which means there would be a group such as yours that was surrounded by City limits
but not in the City limits. That posed a problem for the Police Department because
if they were ever called out they would not know if they were supposed to be there or
Ada County Sheriff - the same way with the Fire Department, whether it was to be a
Rural Truck or a City truck. So, by state statute we annexed all lands that were an
enclave. That's undoubtedly why you were annexed into the City limits."
Williams: "The question is, why weren't we notified of this. We didn't know anything
about it until two years after it was done."
Kingsford: "Have you been getting bills for sewer?"
Williams: "No" "The taxes have gone up, the Policemen are not down there unless
somebody calls them. The trash will not come down and pick up our trash - So we're
paying taxes for something we are not getting. The Post Office will come down to the
end of the oil and that's where they stop - four families have to go 1/8 of a mile
to get their mail."
Mayor: "Is Leisure Lane, the road itself, a dedicated street to Ada County Highway?"
Williams: "As near as tae can find out it's dedicated but we don't know for sure."
Mr. Roundy: "I am the one that opened that project in 1955 and I went to the County
Commissioners and they told me to go right ahead. I made that road there about 1/2
mile long. I was going to have a sewer there, but a man came out from Boise and told
me I couldn't put a sewer there without oiling the roads, So I put in the system
they (Leisure Lane Residents) are using now. I went to the City and they wanted $17,000
to put in water from the HighSchool to Leisure Lane Road. The County Commissioners said
don't do it - it's just too much money. I dug two wells and I own the right to that
artesian - I have the right for a certain amount of water for them, a 8 inch well, a
six inch. well and then there's another 4" well,. I want something done - we've got to
have a sewer and we`ve got to have .water. I turned that Leisure Lane over to the
County and they took it off the tax rolls for two or three years and then put it back
on -they have it assessed at $6,000 and I have to Day Tt, I`ve paid it for several
years. We've got too many on that cesspool, my wife and I came back from a trip and
our house was flooded with sewer water, I'm ready to go ahead with the City or any-
body else and just decide what to do and do it. T can pay for my part of it.
They have filled our drain down there so that our water doesn't drain off - I want
some drains and I want some sewer and water. Of course we have water there - but I
got that by spending about $90,000. T got disgusted with the project and sold the
whole oroject for $20,000 because T couldn't get anything done, I sold it to Hill.
A year from now I will be 90 and I can`t get out and do like T want to do - I need
something done - a drain, sewer and the water situation straingtened out. Give us a
chance to live there."
Orton: °I don't know about the sewer but I do know about the water, I understand dnd
I know the situation. They weren't in the'City, we built the City Water and Sewer
system, they all of a sudden turned up in the City and was faced with the City require-
ments of hooking up. We haven't been billing them. After our budget review I would
Meridian City Hall .7. June 15, 1981
Agenda 3 (Cont'd)
like to go ahead and install City water out there (Leisure Lane} - I don't want to
set a precedent and be installing City water down private lanes or for any
developers -but I would like to see that group on City water and City sewer
as quickly as possible if we can afford it. If we can't. afford it and need their
participation I would like to get a project for the water structure with their
participation. I don't particularly want to go through an LID for that small of -
a group - I think it would be more expensive than putting the water line in. If
there is finances from either this years budget or previous years reserves for that
1/2 mile line I would like to go ahead. I don't know if we have the latitude to do
that for sewer and I certainly don't have the latitude to do it for the pavement or
widening of the road. Let us go ahead and attack this in a positive way."
Roundy: "They assessed that road at $60,000 and I'm paying taxes on it - I want to
get out of that just as fast as I can. The road was put in at 50 feet wide and then
we cut it down to 42."
Kingsford: "Gary what is the status of servicing from Cherry Lane?"
Gary Smith, Engineer: "Only a very small portion of it can service from Cherry Lane.
If you start from Cherry Lane and you get one resident on Leisure Lane to hook up
it's like dominos, the others fall in line. It is not very far from Cherry Lane,
I don't know how many feet, that you can go because Leisure is grading to the north.
It is adverse grading.
Williams: "Mr. Roundy is the only one that is close enough to be taken in with the
300 feet."
Smith: "The only other out would be to 9o north and go into what I believe is
Hunter Estates - and if you do that you have to cross some vacant land."
Kingsford: "And that would be in excess of 300 feet?"
Smith: "I'm not sure"
Kingsford: "What is the property on the Agenda to be subdivided. Is this at the end
of the Lane?"
Jim Branson, Alpha R Omega Realty Inc,; "We own the house that is vacant on three
acreas, the house being on one acre leaving a two acre piece. We are trying to find
out what we can do to sell it. It is right at the bend"(displays picture of property)
Branson discribed property and questioned if they could get a building permit for the
two acres.
Bill Brewer: "I feel there is too many questions from every side that we can go
further with this tonight. I think that the Council will have to set down with the
Engineer's and work this out. As far as what Alpha & Omega is asking for tonight -
it is impossible to let building permits or anything."
Roundy came forward and displayed an original outdated map of Leisure Lane Subdivision.
There was considerable discussion concerning the road, or lane. The road never did
continue around as originally planned. The original plot was 80 foot lots but are now
acres or better. This is a metes and bounds subdivision.
Mayor Glaisyer: "For those that are concerned, there will be public hearings held
on any platting procedure and you will be notified."
Williams: "We are strictly against any development back behind in here (Hatch property)
because it is going to put traffic on that road.
Kingsford: "I would be interested in hearing some solution from you people"
Williams: "We've got a water corporation of our own - we take care of our own system -
we all have our own septic tanks - and we would just like to leave it like it is.
We can't afford 30 or 40 thousand to put in a 8" water line and a 8" sewer line."
Earl Ward, Wastewater Supt: "I talked with the people with Central District Health
Department and I hope that the people in this area are aware that you do have a pending
sewer problem. If you have trouble with your septic tank I doubt if you will be able
to gain the replacement drainfields. I doubt if Central District will issue the permits.
Mr. Roundy is having pro b1 ems right now and I am certain he will not be issued a permit.
Roundy: "Our house stinks, our carpets are ruined - we have to live in our motor home.
There are three of them on there when I should be on there alone. They keep running it
over.
Mayor Glaisyer: "I would like. to appoint a three man Task Force - John Williams,
Rick Orton and Earl Ward or Dick (Williams). Sit down and try to work out the problems
~ Meridian_ Cit
Agenda 3 (Cont'd)
.8.
15. 1981
how much money for improvements, find out from Ada County Highway District if the
street is dedicated, what the easements are, before we can even start to make decisions."
Roundy: "There's two field drains/w~ie~fay~us~o~e out of that septic tank and one of
them is down into the gravel."
Williams: "On the two-story house?" Roundy: "Yes" Williams: "My house is
completely separate from Mr. Adams's, I have my own tank, my own field drain.
There is only one house on the tank you are talking about - at one time there was
two or three houses on it, but that has been taken care of."
Kingsford: "Why is trash not serviced?"
Mohammad, Sanitary Service: "Ada County Disposal called me and asked how we wanted to
handle this - they are not servicing over there. I have been servicing the ones that
have requested the service." Mo explained the pick up service and how to contact him
for service.
Kingsford: "Everyone in the City does have to take this service."
Brewer: "I will be personally contact the Post Office and find out why they are not
delivering the mail down there."
Roundy stated that the culvert has been filled and causing drainage problems. His
property could be flooded.
Rick Orton and City Engineer are to check the drainage problem also.
Mayor: "John will you get in touch with Ada County Highway District and get all the
facts on the street. You start on that, Rick will get aho1d of you, and Earl,
and set up a meeting."
Lila 4illiams: "Why weren't we notified when we were annexed?"
Attorney Crookston: "The Ordinance for Annexation only requires that you receive
notice through the publication in your newspaper. It was not only your enclave
but 11 separate parcels and the only notice that anyone received was that that was
required by the statutes."
Mohammad again invited the Leisure Lane residents to call him if there were any
questions concerning Trash service.
Lila Williams: "Will we be notified if anyone trys to subdivide down there?"
Kingsford: "Yes"
Theresa Holady: "When we moved our house in we were supposed to be the last house
in there."
Wesley Holady: "If the City does come in for the water and sewer, what will you do
to the road when you get through?"
Mayor: That's up to the Ada County Highway District."
Kingsford: "Or whoever owns it."
Mayor: "I think you are going to find out that Mr. Roundy owns the street, if he doesn't
you will have to get a legal description and get it dedicated to ACRD,
Roundy: "I put that in my daughters name. Her name is Marie Hanson-that the road is
deeded to."
Agenda
4 Don 0. Watia - 323 West Idaho (Westview Addition)
Don 0. Watia addressed the Mayor and Council.
Watia: "I am a private citizen and approaching you with the thought of building a
family home on 1/2 of Lot 7 and 8, Block 7. There was some preliminary feedback about
the lot and I would like to answer them. First of a11, addressing the emergency
vehicle, the alley is one of the biggest alley ways. In fact a logging truck has
gone through this alleyway and dumped firewood. Addressing the other question as how
emergency ambulance vehicles would get there, one of your members or somebody from
the City Department drove up there, parked and looked the lot over. So, there is no
problem as far as getting an ambulance down there. What I propose is - there is
currently a two car garage with pro 6ably a 8 or 10 inch base - I propose moving
the garage over to a regular house foundation to the end of the lot and leave the
concrete base for off the street parking, and that would solve the off the street
parking problem As far as sewer connection,the sewer runs down the alley way.
The mail delivery a,uestion - the opposite side of the street from the home is an
apartment house complex with mail delivery on the a11ey."
Citv of Meridian
Agenda 4 (Cont'd)
June 15
Orton: "How would the people get access to this new home?"
Watia: "All homes in that alley are using off the street parking, including the ones
facing main street, they have their driveway, or alleyway with the garage facing
the alley way. Everyone is using off the street parking for at least two vehicles
except one home and ourselves. Actually their garage doors are facing that direction
if I wanted to open them I could park my cars in the garage."
Watia presented and explained the drawings. There was considerable discussion
concerning size comparison, comparing surrounding homes, et.
Orton: (Addressing the Fire Chief) "How do you access those now? What is your plan
in case of fire?"
Fire Chief Welker: "We access this from the front."
Kingsford: "There are no houses currently that face the alley?"
Welker: "What address?"
Watia: "That brings up a good question. I have wondered how they would get to all
these apartments to hook opposite sides of the street. They are quite large - larger
than a two bedroom home."
Welker: "We serviee them but they are put on a street."
Watia: "The front part- what happens to the back part?"
Welker: "If we can't get a truck down we drag the hose down - we are fighting most of
the fires from the front, from the address. It is very difficult in a 20 foot wide
street to operate a fire truck."
Watia: "What would have been the policy of the Fire Department if someone had built
there house on the back end of their lot instead of the front lot - you would still
have to go from the front with the hose?"
Welker: "I wouldn't have another house setting in front of me."
Watia: "Say the house in the front is not directly in front of the other one, like
the house we live in." Watia displays drawings to demostrate.
There was discussion concerning width of alley way.
Welker: "A fire truck can get down it but what I'm talking about is fighting fire----
you have a 16 foot easement and you put a hedge, or the neighbors put a hedge."
Orton: Technically, that is correct - this is a 16 foot alley way - no matter what
it is by use. So if somebody were to put a fence up there then we would be dealing
with a 15 foot alleyway."
Watia: "There would be a distance maximum of 128 feet from the front."
Steve Gratton,Chamber of Commerce: "Doesn't the City have an ordinance that states
that you have to have so many feet fronting a public road before you can obtain a
building permit?" "I know that most everywhere else in the County, Boise City you
have to have a certain number of feet access on a public road before you can issue
a building permit. I think Meridian has the same ordinance."
Watia: "All the homes in this area are small homes and take up the same lot size.
The alley way is presently being driven into by all these vehicles."
Chief of Police Nichols: "What would the address on this home be?"
Watia: "I couldn't see why T can't put a mailbox up and give an address to that
particular place."
Water Supt Stuart: "You would either have to give people easement on the edge of
your property to get the water line back there."
Watia: "When we bought the home we were told the new water line had been put from
the main street, but when we got in I realized it had not. I've got to dig completely
under that house and coming through the front lawn. It would be just as easy, we've
got the connection with the alley way, now I can run one water line completely from
the connection (Idaho Street) down the easement I told you about, and make that shoot
off,with a bigger line, into my house."
Stuart: "We have to have another meter too."
Kingsford: "Meter has to be in the public right-of-way"
Watia: "Two lines would be no problem"
Kingsford: "There is a lot of property in the City that we would be setting a
precedent - I don't want that in terms of afire."
Watia: "This is such a mixed use area. I was the first one. to sign for a Day Care
Center across the street, the next door neighbor got my signature for a Saw Shop,
just block beyond is the multiple big apartment houses that T cannot see how this
use would effect this neighborhood. To have a big lot like that I think is an
extreme in that neighborhood. Everybody else is utilizing their place there."
r
~eridian City Hall .l0 June 15
Agenda 4 (Cont'd)
The Motion was made by Brewer and seconded by Orton to disapprove the variance
request of Don 0. Watia, 323 West Idaho, for a building permit.
Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Orton, yea
Agenda OTHER BUSINESS
5
Gary Smith, Engineer: "On Thursday Jim Coleman will be meeting with the Mayor,
as many Council members, Attorney Crookston and myself."
Meeting time set for 2:00 P.M. June 18th, 1981.
Mayor Glaisyer: "Start to prepare your budget"
Coundilman Orton: "The City currently inspects gas line installations in Meridian,
it requires a great deal of training and expertise that Bruce has told me several
times that he doesn't feel comfortable with. He can`t keep people trained in this
regard although he has been doing a super job over the years, He has also been
working with Intermountain Gas to find a way to give the responsibility of those
inspections to experts. As a result of his efforts he got this offer from
Intermountain Gas:
"In reference to our recent conversation concerning natural gas inspections
in Meridian, we would agree to performing the inspections in Meridian under
the following conditions: 1. A permit from the City will still be required on
natural gas installations. 2. The City will continue to charge and collect
their present permit fee. 3. Any installation 6y Intermountain Gas Company
installers will also pay permit fee as any other dealer, but license for
Intermountain Gas Company installers will be waived. 4. To conform to other
City licensing requirements, a Meridian homeowner will be allowed to purchase
a permit and do gas fitting in his own residence without being licensed.
When this proposal is accepted, Intermountain Gas Comoany agrees to do all
inspection in accordance to N.F.P.A. 54 and Idaho Fuel Gas Code requirements."
Orton: "This is the offer we have been looking for in some time, as you can see it
leaves us financially harmless - we still get our permit fees."
Attorney Crookston: "Don`t you have the robber watching the safe?"
Orton: "When they are the installer and the inspector you do have the fox guarding
the chicken coop, but it is standard practice and they do these inspections in several
cities. Furthermore, the responsibility when they do both the installation and the
inspection is in the hands of experts. T don't fear them making a bad inspection
because one of their installers put it in. Our public is protected by putting it in
the hands of experts."
Stuart: "Since I have been working for the City I have only had training once and
that was about ten years ago. - They change their codes every year, maybe three times
a year - there is no way to keep up with them."
The Motion was made by Brewer and seconded by Orton accept the proposal by Intermountain
Gas Company that they perform the inspections in Meridian under the conditions so
listed in Intermountain Gas Company letter dated June 5, 1981, with the City
continuing to charge and collect their present permit fee.
Motion Carried: Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea; Orton, yea.
(Proposal on file with these minutes)
Kingsford: "The Tennis Courts and Restrooms at the High School were a joint Grant with
the Bureau of Reclamation and the School District. It is our obligation to maintain
these. Roger (Sherwin). had keys for that, I hope they are still available, He had
the morning people unlock them and the night people lock up,"
There was discussion and it was determined it was the Police Department responsibility.
There being no other business to come before the Counc' he Motion was ma e by
Kingsford and seconded by Brewer that the meeting be djo rned.
Motion Carri~edya~All yea.
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