1981 07-20
AGENDA
Meridian City Council
July 20, 1981
ITEM:
Minutes of Special Meeting June 29, 1981 APPROVED
Minutes of the previous meeting July 6, 1981 APPROVED
]. HEARING - Conditional Use for Saw Shop or "Fix-it-Shop"
Don Calhoun 331 West Idaho APPROVED
2. Reynold L. Schenck - 22 and 30 East Franklin - Meridian
Professional Building NO ACTION
HEARING - Conditional Use
3. Meridian Junior Rifle Range - 136 E. Idaho TABLED
4. Surface Pumps - Don M. Storey INPUT
5. OTHER BUSINESS:
Attorney Statement for DVY Arbitration APPROVED
J-U-B Engineers Statement for DVY Arb. APPROVED
6. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
Building Inspector requests input for
Don Watia 323 W. Idaho Single home to duplex
Building Inspector files letter of hazardous
Conditions against The Battery Doctors
located 37 East Broadway (Old Creamery Bldg.)
f4eridian City Hall July 20, 1981
Regular City Council Meeting called to order by Councilman Grant Kingsford,
appointed by Playor Joseph Glaisyer to conduct the Public meeting during his
absent. President of Council, Richard 4Jilliams was also absent.
Meeting called to order at 7:30 P.M.
Councilmen Present: Bill Brewer; Grant Kingsford; Rick Orton Jr.
Mayor Joseph Glaisyer, absent
Richard C. Williams, absent
Others present: Doug fJichols; Vern Schoen; Roger Welker; Skip Voss; Bruce Stuart;
Earl Ward; Reynold L. Schenck, Donald & Edith Calhoun; Gary Smith;
Don Storey; Ross Hadfield; Stan Welsh, Atty.
Minutes of Special fleeting June 29, 1981 approved as read.
P1inutes of Regular Meeting July 6, 1981 approved as read.
Agenda HEARING - Conditional Use for Saw Shop or Fix-it-Shop - Don Calhoun 331 L4. Idaho
1
Kingsford: "Public Hearing is now open"
Calhoun: "I am in fora Saw Shop and Fix-It Shop construction at 331 W. Idaho,
when I thought I would go into a small engine tune up I was told I would have to
have a fire safe building. I have brought up some sketches (distributed to Council)
and to how a building would set on my property."
There was discussion concerning property lines.
Calhoun: "The building will be back in here (designating on sketch) five feet
from the property line on both sides, twenty-one feet to the north side of the
building to the existing shed, sixty feet from the back fence to the outlined
fence on 4th St., about forty-one feet from the west face of building to the gravel
driveway."
Kingsford: "Vern, would that require a setback variance?"
Schoen: "No"
Brewer: "Have you been around to all of your neighbors and obtained the necessary
signatures?"
Calhoun: "Yes"
Signatures were displayed by City Clerk.
Kingsford: "You didn't find anyone in oppostion?"
Calhoun: "fJo" "In fact I've had them ask me when I was going to be in business"
Brewer: "You are presently retired and you would like to do this as a --"
Calhoun: "I'm not yet."
Orton: "Do you anticipate a lot of traffic? Or just one or two car parking?"
Calhoun: "No, just one or two car parking."
Orton: "Would they be in the gravel parking area?"
Calhoun: "Yes, they would use the back part off of 4th Street."
Kingsford: "Is there any comment from the public?" No response.
"Public Hearing Closed"
The Motion was made by Rick Orton and seconded by Bill Brewer that the City Council
approve the Conditional Use Request of Don L. C~~.houn, 331 West Idaho, for a
separate building facing 41est 4th Street with all setback requirements and to meet
with City Codes, to be used as a Saw Shop.
Motion Carried: Brewer, yea; Orton, yea; Kingsford, yea
Agenda Reynold L. Schenck - 22 and 30 East Franklin - Nferidian Professional Center
2
Schenck come before the Council in regard to the problem between Ada County Highway
District's dedication of right-of-way of his new location at 22 and 30 East Franklin
and 142 fleridian Road.
Mcri~ian rite Hall 2 July 20, 1981
Agenda 2 (Contid)
Schenck: "I want to explain why I am here, why I am doing what I'm doing, so
you will understand the reasoning behind itP'''(Schenck uses chalk board to draw
a diagram representing his property at the corner of Franklin and Meridian Roads)
"First of all we had the problem with Williams Street, going through the back,
it was explained to me that before I could put the building to the back I had to
check on Williams Street. In the meantime while checking on it I met with Ada
County and they said they were going to request this right-of-way, Ten feet on
Franklin and five feet on Meridian Street. Therefor,in time talking with
Mr, Funkhouser, I said `What if I don't give you the right-of-way"and he said I
wouldn't get a building permit and that in Meridian they haven't worked with us
too well in the past so I don't know what Meridian is going to do. So we came
over to the next Council meeting here and one of the members of the Council asked
me "what do you feel about the Ada County requirements", you know put in curbs,
gutters, 30 foot radius and give up the right-of way, etc. At that point of time
I said I would not give up the right-of-way, I'll do whatever they want but I
will not give up the right-of-way. Ph1r. Glaisyer at that point said that is between
you and Ada County, we don't care. 6lhen the meeting progressed on and someone made
the motion that T be allowed the building permit contingent upon what Ada County
wanted to do. 31n relynmind at that point of time is, I still have no problem -
because I was told that problem was between me and the County, that was for me
to work out with those guys. So then we went in to get our building permit, we
were granted the building permit - still in my mind no problem. Three weeks ago
was the first time I knew that there was something going down. We tried to get
the permit to put the paving on the road, from the parking to the right-of-way.
They would not allow my contractor to put the paving on the right-of-way because
I had not given up the right-of-way yet. We had some meetings with your City
Engineer, etc., etc. At that time I left a bunch of phone calls for someone to
call me from here and everybody was out of town or they didn't get them so I still
think I have no problem. In the meantime I went down to Ada County asking for an
appeal. I appealed to them to change their decision, this is why I appealed it.
There's Home Federal Savings which is on the corner of Franklin and First Street
and was not required to give up any property at all when they built - they just
barely finished construction when we started building. They were not required to
give up that property at all. On this corner there is a 20 foot by 20 foot, .same
here on those three triangles there. Ada County on June 23rd sent a letter around
to each one of the property owners offering them two dollars a square foot for
their property, which is condemnation prices plus Ada County would do the improve-
ments. And also, I have a Supreme Court decision dated November 1980 from the
State of Nebraska, with Federal Law cited that this practice of giving up property
for future development is illegal and unconstitutional without just compensation
to the owner. This is what I went in to Ada County with, and that night, Thursday
night a week ago, I could see they had already made up my mind and their answers
to each one of those items, Number 1 Home Federal Savings: we did not take the
property from Home Federal Saving because we messed up and didn't get the job done.
Number 2, the reason we offered money to the other three corners, and not you, is
because they are not developing and 4, we don't think Nebraska applies to Idaho
anyway. Trying to compromise this so we wouldn't have the problem we are having,
I offered to put the property in joint tenure, in the Ada County's name and my name,
and test it in the Supreme Court - if I lost it I would sign it and no questions
asked. They looked me right into the eyeballs and said "I'll tell you what we are
going to take the property and you can contest it if you want and give it back if
I loose. Well everybody knows that once people get something it's tough to get
it back. So these are reasons why I'm appealing this decisions. Number 1, they are
asking me for ten feet which is for the sole purpose of widening the road in some
point in future time. They are asking me for five feet down Peridian which is for
the same reason, at some future time. What I am saying - I'm not trying to hold
up Ada County or anybody else - I'll take the $2.00 condemnation a foot, I'm not
asking for the full market value which is five to seven dollars. And what they
are taking in total condemnation in square footage amounts to right close $5,000.00.
And I'm supposed to put in the curbs, gutters, etc. All I'm saying is treat me
equal. Equality is all I'm asking - nobody took any property from Home Federal
Savings, their putting up a bank - does that mean if I put a bank I don't have to
give up property too? Or, pay me the $2.00 a sq. foot condemnation price, that's
all I'm asking. Treat me equal - why am I being teated different from these people
Meridian City Hall .3. July 20, 1981
Agenda 2 (Cont'd) Schenck...
and these people. And that's why I am doing what I'm doing, I'm not trying to
be a son-of-a-gun and fight Meridian. Lord knows I work here and I like this
community. I realize the position that you (Council) are in and all I'm trying
to do is work it out with Ada County. With that Stop Work (Red Tag) - I can't
stop work, I've got too much money tied up in there and too much financial loss
if I do - that's why I kept going. It would drown me. I'm asking for the oppor-
tunity to let me fight it out with Ada County and get the job done. Equality -
hey, treat me the same. i know some of the papers has come that I'm trying to
"hold up" Ada County, asking for all this money - I'm not - $2.00 is condemnation
and is what they are paying everybody else. Treat me equal"
Councilman Orton: "Wayne, under this red tag that we have on the building, what is
the status of continuous construction, I understand we are not inspecting?"
Schenck: "The inspectors were out there today..."
Crookston, Atty: "It is my understanding that when it is red tagged there is no
more work supposed to be done - this is under the building code."
Schenck: "Again, on the red tag - there is nothing wrong with the building.
Nothing wrong with the setbacks, the building, the structure, electrical, plumbing,
it's not a public hazard a menace or anything."
Kingsford: "Anymore comments?"
Councilman Brewer: "The night this cleared the Council, and we gave you a zero lot
line on the alley, we also agreed to go along with Ada County's recommendations.."
Kingsford: "This is the Motion in the minutes of that meeting "Motion was made
by Williams and seconded by Kingsford that the City Council grant Mr. Schenck the
setback variances as requested, rear of building against the north property line
and a ten foot setback on the west and east side of building, provided: that
Schenck comply with Ada County Highway District's requirements as outlined in letter
dated October 22, 1980; that the rear portion of the building be no closer than
ten feet from the center line of the four inch water kine on Williams St; that a
twenty foot easement be provided to the City in lieu of right-of-way for utilities,
fire and police protection; and an all weather surface be constructed upon City
easement at the time of construction."
Brewer: "I feel we are going to have to live with that derision."
Orton: "That's certainly the way I remember that Motion and when the words comply
with Ada Count's request was in there, that's what I understood the Motion to mean
at that time. I don't particularly like the way they are treating you but that
isn't our argument,it appears to me, I think that's your argument with Ada County
and we told you to get that worked out before you get a building permit in that
Motion, that's the way I understood that Motion to read, and I think by issuing
a building permit we had assumed it had been worked out."
Schenck: "O. K., I was told by the Mayor that night and I have been told a couple
of times since then, just like you said - that is my fight with Ada County. So all
I'm asking at this point is let me fight it out. Ada County tells me that they
are nothing more than an advisory board and you (Council) can do whatever you want.
And then you come back and tell me, well, I really can't do anymore than what
Ada County wants."
Kingsford: "That's not exactly what we said - we said that you could do it as lonc
as you iron it out with Ada County Highway District."
Schenck: "We have been doing that."
Kingsford: "But the Motion read that we agreed to those variances and setbacks
conditioned to your meeting Ada County Highway Districts, which you didn't do or
haven't done, we just became aware of in essence three weeks ago."
Schenck: "That's when I became aware that I had a problem because I was granted
the building permit. The attorneys indicate that we are trying to work it out
with them, declaratory judgement and other things that's a possible means that we
can. All we're asking from you (Council) at this time is equal treatment."
Brewer: "Reynold, are you not wanting that after the fact?"
Schenck: "I told you the night of the meeting that I wasn't going to give them
the right-of-way. That was my statement in the meeting, that I would not give
the right-of-way and I was told that was between me and Ada County. So we have
been trying to solve that to the point of appeals, I was in appeals before you
knew we had a problem."
Meridian City Hall .4. July 20, 1981
Agenda 2 (Cont'd) Schenck...
Kingsfordr "Like the Mayor said that's between you and Ada County Highway, we have
to live with Ada County as they take care of our streets. We are going to uphold
them I think, as stated in our minutes."
Schenck: "Even to the point of being inequality among the law?"
Kingsford: "We are not being inequality. If you are saying that they are inequality
it's the Highway District - you're suit is against the Highway District."
Brewer: "Our streets are all deeded to Ada County"
Orton:"We don't have any jurisdiction over those matters, when we subject our
approval to their (ACRD) approval I think it's very plain - we even referenced
to the letter in the Motion and the letter says "to provide". Our Motion was
clear - they have the authority of making request approvals in the right-of-way."
Schenck: "But every town has their own authority to accept or reject it."
"6lhere do we go from here. Treat me equal, either pay me the condemnation bucks
or let me build just like Home Federal built. Why am I different?"
Kingsford: "I agree if what you say is true, I have sympathy for you but still
that's not our situation at this time."
Brewer: "We haven't given Home Federal a thing that we didn't give you."
Kingsford: "We gave them approval contingent upon Highway Districts standards."
Schenck: "Yes, and if they want the ten feet on Franklin at a later date when they
expand the road, Ada County will have to buy it (from Home Federal)."
Kingsford: "You have an excellent case, but it isn't with us."
Schenck: "0. K., all I'm asking for is the opportunity to finish it off because
you know that with something like this there is no way it's going to be settled in
10 seconds or less - and it hasn't been, I've been through this for three months
now."
Orton: "The option that the Highway District offered you, deeding it to them and
then suing them to get it back - you were going to sue them anyway, it may be the
burden of proof is a litt]e bit different."
Schenck: "Would you give your car to me and then sue to get it back? It's the
same difference."
Orton: "I think they have you in a different position than that."
Schenck: "We're talking about inequality among civil rights here."
Kingsford: "You agreed to the conditions of the Motion"
Schenck: "No I did not - I said in that meeting that I would not give up that
right-of-way"
Kingsford: "Right, and the Motion was that we would grant you a building permit
condition to you meeting their requirements."
Schenck: "I still have this battle with them (ACRD) and as long as I can go I'm
not going to give up that property."
Kingsford: "The best I can offer you is good luck because it isn't with us."
"Am I wrong Counselor?"
Crookston: "You're right."
Kingsford: "If you can get Ada County to drop all of that - then great. They will
send us a letter that will indicate they are withdrawing their letter."
Schenck: "What do we do about this stop order?"
Kingsford: "As .far as I'm concerned it's still in force."
Attorney Stan Welsh: "I think all he is really asking you to do, and you have
already answered it, that the debate is not with the City of Meridian but with
the Ada County Highway and their procedures are. Based on our initial review,
which has been very limited just today, that he has an excellent position. We
are not arguing with Meridian, he doesn't want to argue with Meridian, that is
why he asked to be placed on the Agenda. Although there was a stop order placed
no action has been taken against the property yet and we would like to avoid that
until he can proceed in all due haste against Ada County Highway District and
have the Court resolve the issue. That is all he is really asking you to do,
delay doing anything from your standpoint. I realize the action is already taken
but we would like you recind that, which is asking to delay any action until the
Ada County Highway problem is dissolved with assurances that he will proceed
immediately to do that."
Brewer: "Ada County owns our streets, the right-of-ways, access, and. always have
the legal entities and we have to live with these people everyday to get our
hales patched. We have to stand by them too, I just don't see how we can recind
that red tag from that standpoint."
Meridian City Hall .5, July 20, 1981
Agenda 2 (Cont'd) Schenck...
Attorney Stan Welsh: "I understand that and I appreciate the concern and the
predicament that you're in. I think if you look back at what occurred it's easy
from your prospective to visualize what you thought you intended from the motion.
It's understandable at the same token that Reynold, when he was told that the
fight was between him and the Highway District that he understood that it wasn't
a matter of him given it to them. He has proceeded even to the extend of trying
to resolve it with them and still want's to do that. What I'm saying is without
having the City of Meridian have to get in the position with the Highway District
where you own services are jeopardized that you allow Mr. Schenck to resolve it
with the Highway District without taking any further action against him."
Kingsford: "Wouldn't that be feasible through the courts, that they would grant
a continuation for him to go on until that was resolved?"
Welsh: "That would require action against the City of Meridian and he want's to
avoid that."
Kingsford: "He couldn't record one against the City of Meridian, again the battle
is with Ada County Highway."
Welsh: "I understand that, the City of Meridian has now issued a..."
Kingsford: "Because of a motion, we will support that motion that he has to comply
with the Ada County Highway District's regulation of that letter. So, if the court
would say continue that until such time as the decision is made, we don't have
any problem with that, even with the red tag I'm certain."
Welsh: Again, the only concern that I have from Schenk's standpoint, is whether
that could be directed to the City of Meridian without the City being joined in a
law suit."
Kingsford: "All we're saying is that he comply with the Ada County Highway District's
regulations and the court says they will continue those regulations, we have no
problem."
Attorney Crookston: "I think Mr. Welsh is right in that the City would have to be
joined as a party because they were the one that acted on the red tag. Gary
brought up a point, in order to give Mr. Schenck some operating room and still live
within the Council's motion would be to remove the red tag and put a "no occupancy"
giving him some time to finish the building and may give him some time to work
out his problem with Ada County Highway District. I think, the Gender of the deed
of that portion wi11 result in the Court letting it go ahead and let us fight it
out. If he would tender the deed to the court, that's all they are asking for,
if the Highway District wins all they have to doffs have-him produce the deed -
the deed is in court and the bonds to do the work are already there - I don't see
why the court wouldn't order even to remove the occupany, apparently there is
nothing wrong with the building. I think the Council was correct in saying the
motion was that he comply with the Highway District, but that was the alternative
for giving Schenck:. some room at this moment to finish the buiTding."
Orton: "That procedure, crudely put, would be that he would deed the right-of-way
or put the deed in the courts trust until after the issue is settled i'n the court?"
Crookston: ('indi'cates a nod yes) "Same kind of situation if I owe you money that
I don't think I owe to you, I can tender.: it to the court until we decide our
differences. Whoever wins gets the money."
Orton: "Certainly seems to be a fair way to solve it."
Kingsford: "How do you feel about that Reynold?"
Schenck: "I offered that to them already as I told you, I offered this as a joint
tender in the courts until it was done. I have no problem in putting it in the
court system."
(Kingsford announced a two minute recess while Councilman Brewer left the Chamber)
Kingsford: "Meeting called back to order"
Gary Smith: "Mr. Ray Putman, Ada County Highway, indicated to me that any request
that ACHD makes to the City of Meridian is in the form of a recommendation. If the
City wants to adopt that as it's presented or a variation thereof, it's my under-
standing the City has the right to do that. In the past it has been adoption of
ACHD recommendation's. One thing we run into, particularly on deeding a right-of-way,
is future cost of acquiring the right-of-way for street improvements - you dont know
how far away that is, it may be twenty years and it may be five years. And so the
idian City Hall _ __ .6,______
(Agenda 2 (Cont'd) Schenck...
money that's put .forth if that right-of-way isn't deeded in the beginning
increases and comes out of the tax revenues. I would suspect unless we had
a very good reasons why we shouldn't do what Ada County Highway District
recommends we may end up in a dog fight." Mr. Putman stated that was just
a recommendation to the City rather than a request."
Kingsford: "Reynold, when do you expect to apply for an occupancy permit?"
Schenck: "Probably tomorrow."
Kingsford: "So it is not going to help you if we change and forbid an occupancy
permit instead of a red tag?"
Schenck: "As far as an occupancy permit versus a red tag I probably have a problem
with that because everybody will be in by Tuesday. I have to put the people in
to get the rent coming in and make the payments on that place - I can't let it sit."
Orton: "Reynold, how quick can you take that sort of legal action that Wayne went
through - put the right-of-way in ownership of the court, or tender of court."
Stan Welsh, Atty: "We could probably file it tomorrow I understand the urgency
but from our possible perspective not until the end of the week."
Kingsford: "In terms of reality, we're not going to grant an occupancy permit as
long as there is a red tag - he's not going to get very much rent if there's no
water."
Welsh: "I understand that, that is why we are here tonight,to ask you not to take
any other action, such as stopping water."
Brewer: "I haven't talked to all three Commissioners but they the same as told me
that if we bucked them on this we can look fora lot of trouble. When it comes
to Ada County and our streets we are definitely bumping heads, that's all there is
to it."
Schenck: "What about my equal rights, Bill?"
Brewer: "I can't help but think Reynold you're equality thing come about after the
fact and I think if you will be honest with yourself, you found a lot of this after
the fact - when we made our motion. It all came to light after that. I don't blame
you for wanting to tread water back upstream but as far as the Council and myself
are concerned..."
Schenck: "I said I would not give them the right-of-way at that meeting so there-
fore in my mind I am not backing upstream - I said no right then and just hand it
over to them. I knew that Home Federal hadn't granted it then, the $2.00 showed
up later. And with the Nebraska Supreme Court saying taking property for future
development is unconstitional without just compensation. I'm asking for the
opportunity to take this to the Supreme Court. If you guy's strap me like you're
talking about, shuting the water off and these things, all you're going to do
is break my back - you're not even going to give me a chance to hassle it. I'm
not trying to hassle Meridian all I'm trying to do is make this right."
Kingsford: "Here's what I think might be more advised for us - leave things as they
are, the water is turned on currently and if nothing happens it will be handled
with the turn-off list at the first of the month. Is there anything wrong with
that Counselor?"
Crookston: "It would still leave him without an occupancy permit"
Kingsford: "Can't give an occupancy permit if there's a red tag"
Schenck: "What do I have to do to pull the red tag?"
Kingsford: "Meet the requirements of the motion."
Crookston: "Even if the water is on,supposedly if he doesn't have an occupancy
nobody can move in anyway. I haven't researched the building code or the water
code to know if there is no occupancy permit, whether or not you
can turn the water off. I don't think the way you suggested is the proper way to
handle that."
Kingsford: "But if he has occupany without an occupancy permit and we turn the
water off, we would be just in turning it off because he had not been granted an
occupancy permit."
Crookston: "If that's how the regulations read, that's right. I'm not sure that
they do."
Kingsford: "The Council's decision?"
Orton: "I don't see that the compromise that we have tried to come up with does
you any good because of your timing, and frankly it's about the only thing avail-
able to us. If you are going to try to occupy tomorrow, that won't work. And if
IMeri
.7. Ju
(Agenda 2 (Cont'd) Schenck....
(Agenda
3
you can't get your law suit filed before the end of the week, or the first of
next week, I'm not prepared to take any action on it at all - I would prefer to
leave it stand, the compromise won't work and I'm not going to compose it."
Brewer: "I agree to that."
Kingsford: "There is no need for a motion."
Reynold Schenck and Attorney Stan Welsh left the Chamber at this time.
HEARING - Meridian Junior Rifle Range
Ross Hadfield was present to represent the Meridian Junior Rifle Club, requesting
construction of a rifle range in the basement of 136 E. Idaho, Old Bazaar Bldg)
Kingsford: "Hearing is now open"
Hadfield: "I have been an instructor for the Junidr'. Rifle Club for some 20 yrs.
Jim Potter has graciously consented to use the basement of his building for a
Junior Rifle Range. When we were in the Old Modern Woodmen Building, and even
though in the daytime there, none of the people upstairs could hardly hear anything
going on so there is no problem with noise. We will be putting in probably about
six twenty-two lines, air rifle. We have to do some .remodeling."
Kingsford: "How many people do you have at any one time?"
Hadfield: "Over the years this is the largest Junior Rifle Club west of the
Mississippi. We had on the upwards of 110 kids and the last Meridian High School
graduating class, out of 537 kids graduating 51 of them had been in our program."
Kingsford: "How many at one time would be in that building?"
Hadfield: "Generally about 10." Hadfield explains schedule at this time.
Orton: "Are you prepared to go ahead and meet the codes as stipulated?"
Hadfield: "I haven't seen the things requested but I think we can come up to meet
the codes. Bob Nelson was the one that knows that."
Brewer: "You are speaking in terms of meeting all requirements?"
Hadfield: "Yes" "The main thing would be the cost of it. Naturally it's a
benevolent thing. From about 1968 to 1978 I had about $600.00 of my own money
to keep this program running, until we managed to work ourselves out of the hole
that the Federal Government 'put us in. Previously we have had the kids pay so
much a year then at the end of the year we would buy trophies, so maybe we would
have $10.00 to start the next year. We were gambling on that then all of a sudden
in 1968 the Government didn't supply us with ammunition. We were going through
100,000 rounds a year - that's a little better that $1,000. It took us several
years and back where we half way solve it now. There is no problem putting in
a smoke evacuation system."
Kingsford: "They are talking about Fire sprinkling."
Brewer: "You are not over 1500 sq. feet, you're not required to sprinkle, is
that correct?"
Hadfield: "No, is that what they refer to there?" You want to remember, since
1923 since any injury was occured on ariapproved NRA Range, and we have to be
approved by the NRA, we have to send them our plans, etc."
Brewer: "I want to make sure, if we make a motion we may have to go against our
Building Inspector."
Hadfield: "We want to work with him, whatever he wants us to do I'm sure we'll
do - it might take us some time to round up all the material."
Kingsford: "This is a public hearing, are there any comments from the public?"
Fire Chief Welker: "I want to make sure that Ross understands the expense involved
in bringing that up to Code. Bringing that basement up to Code is going to cost
lots of bucks, because when you put in an automatic sprinkling system, fire doors
and everthing involved - about a 1.00 per square foot. It costs a lot of money
to bring an old basement up to Code."
Fire Marshal Skip Voss: "Also, on that basement -that basement covers the whole
building size so it is of considerable size."
•
Meridian Cit Hall .8. Jul 20, 1981
Agenda 3 (Cont'cl) Rifle Range....
Kingsford: Are there any other comments from the public?" No response
"Public Hearing closed."
"May I suggest that we ask that Mr.Hadfield get with the Fire Marshal and the
Fire Chief so that he will know just exactly what the Rifle Range has to do
and then come back next meeting."
Orton: "That is agreeable with me, I would like you to have an idea what you are
getting into there"
The Motion-was made by Orton and seconded by Brewer that the Conditional Use Request
of the Meridian Junior Rifle Range to be located at 136 E. Idaho be continued at
the next regular meeting to be held August 3, 1981.
Motion Carried: Brewer, yea; Orton, yea; Kingsford, yea
Agenda
4 Don M. Storey - Surface Pumps
Don Storey was present to explain a problem that has been bothering people in
the Southeast part of town where he had had a business. The problem with this
area is the high water table.
Storey: "This high water problem has gone on for about two years and it's not
getting any better. I've gone to Joe and I've gone to Earl and they were going
to make a study of it, if they did they have kept it to themselves because I have
never got anything out of it."
~~
Ward: We ve had the pump on at West Idaho and 2nd for a week and it has serviced
Mrs. Unser, I believe, on the south side of West Idaho - the only one that has a
basement - which is a fruit cellar."
Storey: "That isn't the area I'm talking about. The area with the problem is
the area where I had a mill, Zamzow's have a mill and several people around there
that is pumping out of their basements."
Ward: "The one (surface pump) that is deleted now?"
Storey: "Yes, when I left here after serving. on the Council, it was agreed ,and I
think Bruce can tell you this, that well caved in and the sand ruined the motor
and the pump. So it was turned off and it was agreed by the Council to go ahead
and bail that out. Bruce got ahold of Mr. Witt, who has drilled our wells for us
here, and there was a date set and he was supposed to come in clean that well out.
Now that could be done very easily, especially now because I don't think you need
this one down here. I definitely know you need that one down there (park) as
you can go out and where it pumps into the ditch on Franklin and see probably
500 or more gallons per minute. It certainly would help Bruce's problem on the
park because that's good clean water and won't plug up their sprinklers. It
certainly will help us down there because that water table, I can guarantee you
the water table down there raises in the neighborhood of 4 or 5 feet."
Ward: "I agree with you"
Storey: One of the main reasons of the way it is, is because those pipes aren't
sealed tightly down there. I don't think it is any big job to go down there
bail that well out and put that pump and motor to work, and pump that water in the
park where it should be."
Ward: "I think what had happened, at one time Bruce and I had talked about this
and the biggest problem was the replacement of the pumps and the motor - and thats
not the bailing of the well. Bruce do you still have those around anymore?"
Stuart: "The one out of that (park) Mayne Pump took that out of there completely
shot."
Storey: "I understand that, but there is replacement pumps that's being used
down here that are no measure to anybody.' I think Bill has had a problem at one
time another and we also had a surface well there. This was all put in on a
Government Grant and this particular well down here cost about $30,000 - that
was high but it was a Government Grant and we used it and the reason we used it
was because it was insisted that we do - other communities around here were having
the same problem. If you can pump that groundwater table down you are going to
keep from processing a lot of water through that plant out there - I know a little
bit about plants because I was one of the ones responsible for getting that plant
Meridian City Hall .9. July 20, 1981
Agenda4 (Cont'd) Storey....
4 in here and picking up for about 4 or 5 million dollars."
Ward: "I believe we have the Number 5 pump going, over to the east of Bill's
property. We have trouble keeping it going because it isn't high enough to keep
it going."
Storey: "Yes, the one over on State"
Ward: "Right" "We have started the one that is by the irrigation ditch and that's
what I wanted to see whether it would do any good or not." The wells were installed
before the system was rehabilitated. The thinking at that time, I believe, was
that if they put the wells in and pump them it would at }east illeviate the problem,
I wasn't here at that time. I think now, we have done the rehabilitation work -
I won't say they won't do any good - I'm looking at the cost of near $20,000
for replacing those particular pumps, I wouldn't want to go in and replace them.
I'm saying if we pull the other pump on this well over here we are running up
one of our Senior Citizens on us as she wants her basement dry.- it's not much
of a basement."
Storey: "Well, that's a judgement problem." I think this was started on King and
3rd and that's the one that pumps 500 gallons a minute, pumps it into the park
and it used there for sprinkling. I don't see how you can turn it down. As long
as you do have the pump and the motor it isn't any big deal. The biggest deal
is getting a well driller in here to bucket that hole out. The hole was too deep
to start with but that was put in by Government specifications."
Ward: "Where I stand is, I guess I'm a little cautious to go to all the work to
put the well in and find out it didn't work, at least to expectations."
Storey: "I've been cautious for about 30 years and we got along pretty good with
it too."
Orton: "Wasn't that one well that we were going to study this year. We were
going ahead and drop that pump in there, see what the gallons per hour were dropped
at the Sewer Plant because of it."
Ward: "I turned all the wells on today. The well in question isn't there."
Orton: "Yes, but wasn't that well one that we were going to do as part of this...?"
Ward: "We did consider that, but I was directed not to spend excess money on that
area unless it was absolutely for sure..."
Kingsford: "I was over at ZamZows this afternoon and they are running an inch
pipe that is running steady, I imagine at least 10 gallons a minute which is being
pumped into a hole and three pumps that pump it out. They said that they could
live with it because they are outfitted pretty well. I went over and talked to
Wendell at Storey's Feed and Sesiand it just -isn't feasible,there is not way that
they can condition their plant. Their position is that during the time we operated
those pumps they didn't have the problem and you can certainly see where they have
a problem."
Brewer: "Is the pump over in the northeast part of town so that it can be moved?"
Ward: "I believe it is"
Kingsford: Basically what kind of dollars are we talking about to have it bucketed
out and have the pump transferred over?"
Stuart did not recall the estimate given some time ago.
Orton: "I thought we actually budgeted something in the sewer budget for that."
Ward: "No"
Storey: "That was before your time (to Ward) and we did." The Council agreed to
go ahead with the baling of that well and now they have reversed, or something,
because nothing has been done. I've talked to Joe and Earl and I get the same
answer - where we're going to study it. This doesn't do me any good."
Brewer: "We've found out in the last two years that a well is not helping us
that much at the Chapel, Don and this Spring we have figured out a couple of
short cuts that are saving us - we still haven't got water in the building."
Storey: "Bill that was the first pump put in and that was put in 30 years ago."
Brewer: "The one down by the park may be the only one in town of any value. I
don't know why we don't pull out the pump and the motor in our part of town and
bale out that thing, get it going."
Kingsford: "Get a price tag and get moving on it, immediately if not sooner."
Orton: "I am interested in the data because there is a tremendous amount of
variation of opinion on what happened."
Ward: "I have been cautious in spending a mass amount of money - this is not the
first City that I have worked for that has had surface wells. I tend to be cautious"
• ~
IMe
(Agenda 4 (Cont'd) Storey....
Agenda
~ i
There was discussion concerning screening sand and algae.
Storey thanked the Council and left the Chamber at this time.
OTHER BUSINESS:
The Attorney statement for legal services for sewer project in the amount of
$636.00 was discussed.
The Motion was made by Orton and seconded by Brewer to pay Statement dated
July 2, 1981 from Ambrose, Fitzgerald, Crookston & McLam Attorneys, for
Legal services concerning DVY - Arbitration and associated matters in the
amount of $636.00 and that the transfer of funds be made from the Sewer
General Fund to Construction Fund for payment.
Motion Carried: Brewer, yea; Orton, yea; Kingsford, yea
Engineering Statement No. 1 for Research in DVY Construction Company vs.
City of Meridian arbitration claim in the amount of $324..90 was discussed.
The Motion was made by Brewer and seconded by Orton that J,U-B Engineers, Inc.
Statement No. 1, DVY Construction Company vs. City of Meridian Arbitration
claim be paid in the amount of $324.90 and that transfer of funds be made
brom the Sewer General Fund to Construction Fund for payment.
Plotion Carried: Orton, yea; Kingsford, yea; Brewer, yea
Agenda
6
Department Reports:
Building Inspector Vernon Schoen reported that Don Watia, 323 West Idaho, had
contacted him and would like to convert his home into a duplex. Schoen felt
that all codes can be met, no problem with zoning and couldn't forsee any
problems. There were no negative remarks from the Council. This request
was left to the Building Inspector.
Building Inspector Vernon Schoen reported that The Battery Doctors are located
at 37 E. Broadway (Creamery Building).
Schoen: "You have a letter before you and this is a serious situation."
Schoen had done extensive research concerning the battery business and found
this to be hazardous and highly flammable or explosive material other than
flammable liquids. (Letter dated July 20, 1981 on file with these minutes)
Ward explained the danger of the acid lead oxide in .the sewer pipes from
spills and wash downs.
It was the feeling of the Council that The Battery Doctors should be made to
meet all codes and requirements as listed in letter of Building Inspector
Vernon Schoen.
The Plotion was made by Brewer and seconded by Orton that being an emergency
because of an immediate hazard imposed by The Battery Doctor, 37'East Broadway
and based on the letter by the City !Building Inspector dated July 20, 1981,
that The Battery Doctor be shut down every way possible July 20, 1981, and
that they come before the Council with proper requirements.
Plotion Carried: Brewer, yea; Orton, yea; I:ingsford,yea
Kingsford: "I don't think the City should charge them a turn on fee unless
they do not voluntarily close down."
There being no other business to come before the Council the meeting was
adjourned at 8:45 P.M.
ATTEST:
~' ~ _~ /-,
Grant P. Kingsf rd ;'
Acting Mayor
L~AAana L. Niemann; Cit(fi Clerk
__
OFRCSA LS
IAWANA L. NIEMAN N, CFty Clerk
A. N. %IEBERT Treasurer
RICHA~~:', 7. NIOMOLS, COiet of Police
BAUCf. ^. STUAR?, Water Works Supt.
JOHN O. FITZG ERALD, Attorney
ROGER WELKER, Fire G'+.ief
~3ARL WARD, Waste Water Supt.
•
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NERIDIAN, IDAIiO
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IOSEPH L. GLAISYE?'.
M•YOr
July 20, 1981
City of Meridi<+=
Mayor and Council Members:
Re: The Battery Doctor
37 East Broadway
COUNCILMEN
H!C r+.lRO C. WILL!A M$
GflAM1T P. RINGSFORD
0!LL SR~Y/E9
RICHARD F. URTO N, JF.
DONALD L SHARP
Cn•Irmen Zon!np 3 Plsenmp
Gentlemen:
Tfie'Battery Doctor business has moved into a part of the old
Creamery bu?'ding at 37 Eas* Broadway, ?^eridian, Idaho.
They moved in about a week ago without an oca?panty permit, which
is required by Code on ary building when you nave a change of ocaipancy.
I met with them June 27, 1981 and Juan. 28, 193'. God told them at that
time they would have to check with Earl 'wa.~? at *he Sewer ?lant and
that I would need engineering drawing to remodel the bu'!ding to meet
their type of occupancy.
Their occupancy will be rated in U.B.C. as (!'-':) and (H-4).
(,H-1) "Storage and handlin^ of hazardous -,nd 'Highly flammable ^r
explosive material other than flammable liqui''.<..
(H-G) "Repair Garages". Under (H-11 the building must `~e sprinkled
for fire protection if the floc-area exceeds 1500 squ-sr'-=~ feet.
Under (H-4) the building must be sprinkled +.r fire prr?tection if
flcorarea exceeds :;000 square feet, at preset?t they are using
14,000 square feet.
~n (H-1) type occupancy is the mos± hazardous of all occupancy's
listed in the Code Books.
If they had a battery charging room it a~ould have ±o be of one-
hour cons*. ruction with fire proof 1'ghting and no electrical switches
or receptacles and a special venting system.
These requirements and others are listed as follows:
U.B.C. 908 "Special Hazards"
U.B.C. Standard 9 - l "S*_orage and handlinc of flammable and
Comb:+::tible LiauidsV
U.B.C. Standard 9 - 3 "Blower and exh~:iis.;t systrn•~as for dust,
stock and vapor removal or co^veying."
•
page 2_
The Battery Doctor
Mechanic Code ??02 and '1~J4 "Ventilation Systems"
Fire Cede '>~.3D9(b) "Automatic Sprink?er Sysem"
NFp; f69 "Explosion prevention Systems"
Ih handling, moving, storing, and char~inc of fif±y (5D) or more
batter'ids a day, they can expect some explosions, acid spi??s and the
dropping of batteries.
The dangers we are dealing with are hydrogen and oxygen on the
charging of batteries, acid on spills and the spread of acid on
explosions..
Pf old batteries or acid is stored then you have air contamination
by lead oxide.
Special eye washers and fresh watF>r hydrants and hoses must be
placed frequently on all walls of the work areas.
~p
Thy €id will deteriorate cement floor rather fast. ?n the`r wash downs
they will have acid, lead oxide in the sewer pipes which will deterior?*.e
cast iron, clay or cement pipes - even with light daily washings.
Earl Ward wi17 need a written agreement ccverina`.'he= r amounts of discharge
into the sewer plant and that the Battery Doctor business would be responsi-
ble for a1? expenses from spills or other break downs in excess of acids
or other wastes.
As Building Inspector„ I do not recommend this use for this bui'di_ng
without Engineering drawings for wiring, fans, ducts, rooms for eac`~
application and storage. D,lso, to design a sprinkler system for fire
protection is requested.
The windows between the office and the work area should be closed off
with fire protection and doors to be of one-hour `-reproef,n~ smoke :c -*f
construction.
All of the above items are very dangerous to employee`s and customers.
With the possible damage to sewer pipes, sewer .lap*, emp?ogees and
customers I can not even recommend the business to be allowed to continue
in the9r present condition.
Sincerely,
Vernon R. Schoen, wilding Inspector
CITY OF MERIDIAN, IDA?'!'
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