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1988 01-19• A G E N D A MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JANUARY 19, 1988 I'~EM MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JANUARY 5, 1988: (APPROVED) 1: PARKING FOR HOALST & ANDERSON AT 1434 N. MERIDIAN ST: (TABLED) 2: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR BRANDON & MERLYN SCHMECKPEPER:(APPROVED) 3: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: • • MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JANUARY 20, 1988 Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council called to order by Mayor Grant Kingsford at 7:30.p.m.: Members Present: Bill Brewer: Ron Tolsma: Bert Myers: Bob Giesler: Others Present: Brandon & Merlyn Schmeckpeper, Steve Anderson, Steve Wherry, Moe Alidjani, Wayne Crookston, Max Yerrington: The Motion was made by Giesler and seconded by Myers to approve the minutes of the previous meeting held January 5, 1988 as written: Motion Carried: All Yea: Item #1: Parking for Hoalst & Anderson at 1434 N. Meridian Street: Mayor Kingsford: I see Mr. Anderson is present and if he would like to come forward and make any additional comments or comment on any of the City Engineer's comments that he submitted to the Council. Anderson: First I would like to thank all of you for your patience over the past years, per your request from the City Attorney, I have given you what we would like to do as far as the parking at our build= ing. We have enough spaces here to meet the requirements plus we have a couple of additiona'1 and we have room to put more if they are needed, ~as far as striping the approach area that is no problem, I have not checked with ACHD as far as a permit goes so do not know whether there will be any problems, what we planned on was from our neighbors drive- way to make an additional cut for the extra footage. Mayor Kingsford: With regard to that, you have to get approval from ACHD to do a curb cut. Anderson: The easement is something I have already contacted our neighbor about and they would like to have access to their backyard also, so this should not be a problem. Mayor Kingsford: With the regard to the easement, I would like to see us have at City Hall a notorized permanent easement granted by the property owner. This would need to be a condition to our approval. Anderson: There is enough room to make the spaces ten feet wide, as far as the overhang, we are not going to have any large trucks back in there. I have been back in there with a camper & boat even with the trees in there so this should not be a problem. Mayor Kingsford: The major concern is the overhang on your neighbor _ roof, this is a lot lower building than yours, the City Engineer when he made that comment said he was able to reach up and touch that ea~e.There is some problem with this type of thing at the drive-ins and drive through banks. Brewer: It might be wise to hang some chains down along this eave MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL. JANUARY 19, 1988 Page #2 at a height that most cars won't hit it but anything higher to would draw attention to. Anderson: The trees do have to come out. Mayor Kingsford: Along that line we hate to see nice vegetation removed, we do not have any control over that but we would appreciate your giving consideration to other vegetation. Anderson: We would like to use this plan versus going in on the North side, our hopes being as we are able to expand using the garage area for some additional offices, I really hate to pull that down if we do not have to. The one thing I would like to ask the Council to consider is maybe giving us some leniency as far as asphalt, if we could go in with compact gravel, if that would be to their satisfac- tion versus asphalt. I would asphalt at least to the back of the building so we have good drainage off there. Mayor Kingsford: I might say in regard to item 9, as I indicated to you, in our visit, I do have some concern about a garage whether it really does give the appearance of a commercial building, that is a consideration we are both aware of, I am not going to tell you that it has to be taken out. With regards to that if you do make it another office, I doubt seriously if you are going to be able to do that with the parking spaces you have available. Anderson: I did measure it out and there is room for additional spaces in the back. Brewer: Since your neighbor is also anxious to have this opened up do... they .also plan to use their backyard in the future for parking? Anderson: Yes. Their traffic is very light, so I do not see them using it for customer parking but for their personal units. Brewer: The only real problem I have and I can appreciate your request, as to the gravel lot as opposed to the paving however I hate to set precedences like this because any new construction or offices such as yourself (aye most definately demand that they use paved parking. I h~:ve a real problem letting this project get by without the lot being properly paved, if let go now it will never be done. I think this would set a precedence that we can not afford on the Council, there could be a time put on it where the initial improvements were done now with paving to follow in one year, but I would like to see it paved and striped. Otherwise I think everything else can be worked out. Myers: If we did go along with this paving to the end of the build- ing and the compact gravel in the back, what .does your time element look like to get the paving completed back there? Anderson: I would like to ask for a couple of years, because we have hopes of doing some expanding from where we are at now. If that should become a reality, we would have to turn around and tear up some of the paving. MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • • JANUARY 7.9 , 19 8 8 PAGE #~ 3 Myers: What you are saying that if you do expand you will be able to put more parking along the south side? Anderson: We should be able to have approximately seventeen parking spaces on the lot. Mayor Kingsford: If I might ask what is your intent on a possible expansion that would require any of this being torn up? Anderson: There is some property going to the rear that hopefully will some day become a part of our operation, if that takes place the whole thing would have to be redone. Mayor Kingsford: I can recognize that you hate to throw away money, but I have to agree with Councilman Brewer, I think we require other people to do paved parking, I think it is better for the sake of those people and us setting a precedenne I would hate to see that be gravel. Giesler: I feel the same way on the asphalt it should be paved, another thing I have concern about is the amount of area between those two buildings, I know it is fifteen feet but with the amount of overhang but with older people who are not as capable as Mr. Anderson, I could forsee some real problems, that really get narrow after looking at it today, it just looks like to me , personally that the best workable thing would be what we orginally talked about when this first begin that the driveway you have now is wide that if you are wanting to keep the garage, I do not know what the feasability of moving it to a better location. I do not know what the cost would be moving the garage compared to the cost of the alternate but I have some real problems with the traffic getting in and out of the narrow area here. I would think definately the eves would have to come off or would be off before to long..that one is really low on your neighbors side. I would personally like to see that garage moved and it done the way it was orginally planned. Myers: You are still going to have the parking you have now on the driveway? Anderson: Yes we will still have all that. Mayor Kingsford: We would like to see something done with that as that is the problem now, people backing out onto Meridian Road. That should cease to be parking, unless you have an avenue where you turn around and go out forward. We would like to see that marked as no parking. Counselor, do we have a liability if we approve this? Counselor: You certainly have an exposure just as anything the City does and approves. If for some reason it is determined to be a negligent approval there is always the exposure, the primary liability is going to be with the parties involved, probably Hoalst & Anderson because it is their project. If you forsee_that being a difficulty for the parking , you are better off not going forward and approving it, if you think it is a hazzard and certainly it has been discussed as being a hazzard so it is forseeable that someone could say the Council knew it was a hazzard when it was discussed. MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • • JANUARY 19 , ]. 9 8 8 PAGE # ~ Brewer: I think we all have our questions here and I think Councilman Myers touched on one interesting thing that we all have to keep in mind as far as concessions go is that this does go back four years.. that we have been trying to accomplish something, so I feel you have had four years of concessions already, I really do feel that maybe we are doing this halfway and I might have been willing there to make a few concession in order to see this happen but there is no doubt when you chose to go into residential .property as to opposed to building a new building you did it because of costs, but I feel in working with people, such as yourself who chose that route we still have to maintain a professional guideline that would more or less compliment the people who chose to build new and we demand everything of them. I really feel- wrong about making any concessions. Maybe Councilman Giesler has the right idea that we should go back to the original plan and demand that it be done. I would like to see it done right. Anderson: If I may respond to that, is there really any difference between a 12 foot avenue between these two parking spaces then there is between the two buildings since we have to have some criteria to draw this thing from, you in your code put a minimum of 12 feet between these two parking situation. Is that really any different, you say you want us to do it right, we want to also, we are proud of what we have been able to do in this community, we like what we have done to our building, we are not going to short change at this point, if twelve feet is adequate in the parking lot it s,eem~twelve feet - would be sufficient to get in or out.Anderson showed the Councilman what the parking requirements were in the ordinance as far as the twelve feet is concerned. Giesler: But, you also have the person coming in or out that does not realize that there is something over the top of them, people do not even think of that, you go and look at most all of the drive- ins and you will see where most all of them have be hit a number of times. If you can get those eves off to where they have a straight shot then I think you are talking this sort of deal. where you have those overhangs then it is an entirely different situation. Myers: What is the possibility of putting a sign on your nieghbors eve saying low overhang or caution low clearance/ Is there any problem with the codes on that? Anderson: I do not see any problem with doing that. Mayor Kingsford: I am not sure that we have a code that speaks to driveways. Myers: I can see what Mr. Anderson is speaking about if you have to only have twelve feet between the parking that should be suff- icient to get back in there. I also agree with Councilman Giesler that people are going to drive back in there and hit the eve if they are not paying attention to what they are doing, how are you going to get around that away if it was fifteen foot someone would probably run into it. Have you looked into the cost of tearing that garage down compared to what you are doing here and then if you wanted to use it as office space rebuilding it back somewhere else? Meridian City Council • January 19, 1988 Page #5 Anderson: We figure it would cost about $20,000 to lose that space. Mayor Kingsford: Mr. Anderson, I have a friend and I am not going to push him but he does move brick buildings. and rarely are they damaged, I would suggest to you if it was moved on these premises it would be rather insignificant amount of cost. Anderson: Generally they move these that have floors & rafters, something to lift from, this building is on a concrete slab, there is no way to pick it up, this is the problem. Mayor Kingsford.: You would be surprised at what professional movers can dp I am reasonably confident they could do it, you might crack a little mortar but you would not crack very much. I think it would be worth looking into certainly from my point of view as to the appearance of a commercial building. Brewer: Under the circumstances now, it is always going to look like a residence with a garage even with the beautiful improvements you have made inside and everything those do not show from the outside, it still i©oks like a house with a garage, you already have twenty one feet ot~concrete driveway half the length of your property on that side that you wouldn't have on the other side, I would really feel good about maybe putting this back on the calender for a couple of weeks and your firm finding out if there is anyway possible that the garage could be moved and go back to your original concept. It would be the professional way to do it and as far as appearance it would be a whole lot better. Anderson: If it would be satisfactory to the Council we will price it out both ways, we will give you our budget and I hope you can appreciate we are the one who have to spend the funds to get this donee and we would like to be in business when this whole thing is done. Myers: We want you to be here to, we have worked with you these last few years and we are still going to try to work with you, I agree with Councilman Brewer, I think that is the thing to do,~to=.check,._ out the possibility of moving the brick building, in looking at the whole thing overall I think you are going to be better off than putting the driveway on the other side. If it is at all possible I think it would be the way to go, if not we might have to look at the alternative. Mayor Kingsford: This would save you going to the ACRD for a curb cut as well as getting a permanent easement from your neighbor. Something else you might look at is a drive-thru garage like the one at a former residence on East First Street. Brewer: This would also be keeping everything on your own property where you would have control of your own destiny. Mayor Kingsford: Is the Council desirious of making a Motion to yea, nay or table? CITY COUNCIL • JANUARY 19, 1988 PAGE #.6 The Motion was made by Myers proposal submitted by Hoalst City Council Meeting to give having the garage moved so we that was submitted. Motion Carried: All Yea: • and seconded by Tolsma that the parking & Anderson be tabled until the next Mr. Anderson some time to check into could go back to the ori.g~,nal plan i Item # 2: Conditional Use Permit for Brandon & Merlyn Schmeckpeper: Mr. Schmeckpeper: Thanks for changing the Ordinance and speeding up this process, my son and my proposal is to build a duplex on the property located at 403 East Third, it is on the South side of town and you have before you the results of the Planning & Zoning Commissions findings at their meeting,we concurr with their find- ings, we feel it would be an improvement to the community. If you have any questions I am here to answer them. Tolsma: Did you get a copy of the P & Z recommendation, they said not requiring the alley being paved or curbs & gutters and that you agreed to the sidewalk. Schmeckpeper: Yes I did and also to the two foot mentioned in there to if that should become necessary, z do not have a problem with that. I think though in all fairness the P & Z & the Council ought to take a look at that alley before they try to take two foot off my side because there is a lot of garages there that will have to be removed to get this width all the way through. The opposite side of the alley is basically clear. Mayor Kingsford: I think this is an area that for some time I basically have had some concern with the Highway District and they have had some concern with us, we have not followed their recommend- ations, but the fact is very often they have not come out and taken a look at what is physically there, I think this might be a good opportunity for us to think about getting those folks together and setting down and let them know where we are coming from and vice- versus.I agree with you after looking at that property, I do not know if it is realistic to take two feet away from it. They have their standard recommendations. Any other questions of Mr. Schmeckpeper, if not can we have a motion. The Motion was made by Brewer and seconded by Myers to approve the Conditional Use Permit for Brandon & Merlyn Schmeckpeper with the conditions set forth by the Planning & Zoning Commission. Motion Carried: All Yea: Department Reports: Brewer: Maybe it would be a good idea to have the City Attorney look into the Hoalst & Anderson situation and let. us know what our responsibilities might be if we were to approve these con- cessions that they are requesting. We also ought to have a calend- er in the Council Chambers. MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL. • JANUARY 19, 1988 PAGE #~° Being no further business to come before the Council the Motion was made by Myers and seconded by Tolsma to adjourn at 8:10 p.m.: Motion Carried: All Yea: (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: T KINGSFORD, YO ATTEST: /~~~,_. a City Clerk: Mayor,~& Council P & Z Commission I Atty, Eng, Fire Police, Ward, Stuart Mitich, Gass, Hallett Valley News, Statesman ACRD, NIMD, CDH ACC, Settlers Irrg. 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S~Dace s~eowv, eCos~.r'l' ~v 'heir bldg. 1s p~~ab~y n0~ us'able ,(ecausQ o,~ -fh~ ~icrnvnq hxdtys re~.~circ.® .rdl~~h co~~~9 ahdund ~ horse eovher, 6. ~ eaves or~e~G,a~gia~nd ~~s her9Gt~ ~bov~ ~ c!l~uhd, ~' a~ ~ houses Socc~Gr o~~ ,drove wu~, rn~t`~l be a h~o~ ~Or r~eGi~cCr,°. off- fah ~~- h2pbi~. 1~ ~ ISM SGLO~wh is ~i-u~, ace ~i ~ D~ 6utld~hq,. Mkt dil~-aau, befw.ee~t air 1zahA ed~e< ~ situ,`, 6 e ¢ ~ ivyt fleas !s! 7. Tt~tty Y~er`~ ~l ce ~1G<2~ ~Y~it (~l y 4~. ~ ~ray5¢ G2 y/.7-~`a,,~ wi`~/ /l ~ 7~n 6e 7~,em01f~ . ~ Clty of Meridian ~ INTEROFFICE MEMO DATE ~A~. J~, 1~i88 page 2 0 ~' 2 FROM: ~E; ~vq~sf ~ ~9d2NSOti. /1grG~%r~4 . ,erlcvvacG~ m~r-f= ~, ~ so~~~ edq~ o~ ~u~s R~vna ch cot h ~ c1ov wy f ~.e. no ~i ec~ Q o ~ ~.¢. ~~~J og 9i~o~ ~ y ~'i busi nesr ~ d~^t ae way. Tf seems ~ rn2 "7~ mac. s ~i ou /d ~c some hype ~' bprr/tr be~wr~, ~ two ~a for-wcn~ ~u~f7.,~ S¢u,a661~ 96ou¢ /~~' ,_ ~prn ion ac y t, T dorm know wl~a¢ f1~ cos TO: /?ila~or ~ CouH c~ v 6rh st~,s ~n ~e Rh al~ernai~ ~o yr,ar~e i~ -du2 eorf -e~•zougti ~n ~1.1.ow v~elue[e. ~oass aq.e, ~2a~ bva,~ doesrr~ yet ~hvoluP ~ , ~¢. 'f~-e.~ S~, ~-~- r~o,( ot^erhyh9s Flo-n~ ~u~ a l~ca~ra~ ea.,~,p.r~ o•~ 1o~ck yes , ~d ~ c%,n~- ~i~~e ~, ~r,~re Qriv~wcU2c ~~ir»e.diq~~ 4d/ace~f'" ~o orte ah~l~ie~:~~-C6d2~ S2c,s a driUew~ s6ioKld 6e S~ car,-a.~ ~vr~ a Sim ~ 1~ne. OFFICIAL OATH OF OFFICE I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution and Laws of the State of Idaho, that I will faithfully discharge all the duties of the office of Councilman of Meridian , Idaho, according to the best of my ability. it Subscribed and sworn to before me this 5th day of January , 198 8. I Filed Jan. 05 ,19 88 v.---~ City lerk OFFICIAL OATH OF OFFICE I do solemnly;.swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the Uniter] States and the Constitution and Laws of the State of Idaho, that I will faithfully discharge all the duties of the office of Councilman of Meridian , Idaho, according to the best of my ability. Subscribed and sworn to before me this 5th day of January , 1988. Jan. 05 1988 OFFICIAL OATH OF OFFICE I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution and Laws of the State of Idaho, that I will faithfully discharge all the duties of the office of Mayor of Meridian ability. Idaho, according to the best of my Subscribed and sworn to before me this 5th day of January, 198 8. Filed Jan. 05, 1988 ~e • • A G E N D A MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JANUARY 5, 1988 ITEM: MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING HELD DECEMBER 15, 198.7: (APPROVED) 1: SWEAR IN NEWLY ELECTED OFFICIALS: 2: BID ON SECONDARY CLARIFIER FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT (BID AWARDED) ` 3: PRE-TERMINATION HEARING: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCTES:(TURN-OFF APPROVED) 4: APPROVE THE BILLS: (APPROVED) 5: ~='ORDINANCE#492: REZONE OF JOHNSON PROPERTY AT 1103 EAST~FIRST:(APPROVED) 6: RESOLUTION ~ 118: ESTABLISH FIRE TRUCK FUND:(POSTPONED) 7: TRANSFER BEER & WINE LICENSE OF EL ZOCALO:(APPROVED) 8: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: