1988 08-16_.._....~__a4
4 - - -
P , ~ •
A G E N D A
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AUGUST 16, 1988
ITEM:
MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING-.HELD AUGUST 2, 1988: (APPROVED)
1: PUBLIC HEARING: PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE ZONING & DEVELOPMENT
ORDINANCE: (NEW FINDINGS TO BE PREPARED)
2: PUBLIC HEARING: REZONE REQUEST BY BUD GINGRICH:(APPROVED, ORDINANCE TO
BE PREPARED)
3: TRANSFER OF BEER LICNESE HUGO'S DELI TO LARRY'S & PAT'S DELI: (APPROVED)
4: RESOLUTION # 120: GEM COMMUNITY SUPPORT RESOLUTION: (APPROVED)
5: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
i
•
r~RmlAly cITY covNCIL AUGUST 16, 19ss
Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council called to order by President of the Council
Bill Brewer at 7:30 p.m.:
Members Present: Ron Tolsma; Bert Myers; Bob Giesler: Mayor Kingsford was absent:
Others Present: John & Alice Gipe, Mary Bell, Alpha Ackaret, Howard Brown, Katy Brown,
Richard Allison, Patricia Bouslaugh, Brenda Lundy, Lee Williams, K. Beumeler, Julie Stutts,
Jim & Adam Lough, Patsy Garrett, Charles Liggett, Mary Boice, Dale Ownby, Jane Fischer,
Bud Gingrich, Gary S~ni.th, Wayne Crookston, Harold Pitkins:
The Motion was made by Myers and seconded by Giesler to approve the minutes of the
previous meeting held August 9, 1988 as written:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
Item #1: Public Hearing: Amendments. to the Zoning & Development Ordinance:
Brewer: I will now open- the Public Hearing, we seen to have quite a few people in the
audience who wish to speak tonne, there are two different issues that will be addressed
tonne, the first one will be the Amendments to the Zoning & DeveloFxnent Ordinance which
include the Day Care issue. We asked that you limit your remarks to three minutes and
also to the issue at hand.
Charles Liggett, 2084 I,e Ann Way, Mr. Liggett was sworn by the City Attorney:
Liggett: I oppose the in home child care, they do not refer to it as a business, they
refer to it as something to do but as far as I am concerned if you are collecting money
or an hourly wage, I would consider that a business, when I bought into that subdivision
I intended it to be a residential area not a business area and I think that that should
stay out in the business sector not into the residential area. I do not have any problem
with child care centers, don't get me wrong, but I don't like one next to me and I don't
particular like it in the subdivision. We have a covenants there but I don't think it is
fair for the menbars of the hcgneowners association to have to get on to his neighbor
because he wants to baby sit for a dozen or so children, I think that should scene frcan
the City with an Ordinance to that effect.
Giesler: Do you have a problem with it being in a residential area if it were not next
to you?
Liggett: Yes, I do.
Giesler: If the covenants were changed to allow that one use and they went through the
steps of a Conditional Use and it was approved would you have a problem with it being
in a residential subdivision?
Leggett: Yes.
Harold Brown: 400 Cramere, Mr. Brown was sworn by the City Attorney:
Brown: C-~ntlemen, I just wanted to say that in the past months there have been a great
deal of people who have put in a lot of their time and effort in working on this Ordin-
ance and getting it changed so that it will work for all parties involved, at this point
I still do not believe enough work and enough research has been done to make a decision
on the Ordinance as it is now written, I think there are still a lot of questions,
r~~mIAN cITY covNClr,
AUGUST 16, 7,988
PAGE # 2
pertaining to the Ordinance, as far as the legalities of it, everything that is written
into it the limits in puts on operators thenselves. I would also like to say at this
time and it was found in the Findings of Fact at the last public hearing that we do want
rules, we do want regulations as they pertain to day care operations in Meridian, you
gentlemen have done a great job in bringing business to Meridian, which is going to
bring people to Meridian, it is going to bring children to Meridian, we have to take
care of those children, not all parents want to take their children out of the cc~rmunity
so as the com<rn~ity grows there are going to be more children in it, we need. to give it
more thought as far as what we are going to do, the gentleman who just spoke said he did
not want a day care operation in his neighborhood , at the same time if you had a family
move.in next to him that had twelve children, what could he say about that. These are
the type of things we need to study further. Again I wanted to reiterate that the child-
ren do need to be taken care of, we do want the rules, we do want the regulations but
we want them so they are pertaining to us and to you, something that can be enforced,
scanething that can be workable for everyone involved.
Patricia Bouslaugh, 404 East State, Bouslaugh was sworn by the City Attorney:
Bouslaugh: I have lived here four years and when I first moved in, I had a child care
'in my home, I had between on~~and twenty-eight children, I have four children of my awn
none of my neighbors had any ccanplaints, I know three mothers now that would like to go
to work but because they have newborns or unpotty trained children they can not find
child care, there needs to be more child care in our comt[tt~i.ty, if it is set up so that
people cannot have child care in their home, we are just going to have to support these
families on welfare because the mothers cannot go to work. I myself am looking for child
care for my child so I can go back to school and get a vocation for myself so I can earn
a living in case anything should happen to my husband, I would not have to go on wlefare.
I do not see where child care in the home does ca.use probl~ns, we have to take care of
the children, our cca~-unity cannot grow if we do not provide adequate child care.
Greenleaf Academy is an excellent child care but they do not take children that are not
trained and they do have a long waiting list.
Myers: I assume from what you are saying, you do not approve of the way the Ordinance
is written?
Bouslaugh: No, I am not. I am not sure what it says but what I have heard from other
people, it is making it so that people who are trying to help their financial status
and keep off of welfare, will not be able to do so.
Myers: Then you have not read the proposed amendments to the Ordinance?
Bouslaugh: I understand that they are wanting. people to go into great lengths financially
r to get approval°,they are going to be consider. a business.
Myers: Basically,- it is a business and that is not quite correct on the Ordinance but it
does have some paperwork that has to be done.
Bouslaugh: From what I understand, the quote is from $800 to $7.200.
Myers: I do not know about the amounts because every case would be separate, when it first
started out we were looking at $160 to $400.
Bouslaugh: If we are going to have a set fee, lets have_it.where people can afford it.
Mfrs: It is difficult to do that because each one would have to take its awn merit.
because of the costs involved, it would be very difficultbecause you are going too have
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 3
•
six to twelve children in your home and the neighbors may not have any problem with that
and then they may have and this could increase the costs.
Bouslaugh: I agree, they need rules and regulations but I am saying the costs, they can not
be squeezed out or they will not be able to have any.
Myers : We understand that and I was on the Ccatan_ittee that worked on this and that is why
I was wondering whether you had read_the proposal. We tried to do the best we could, the
main thing is the care of the children, that is very important, but also the neighborhoods
have to be protected. All of the people have to be protected. so we have to work with all
the people. We tried to put scmething together that was fair to all the residents because
it is really not fair for people living in the City of Meridian paying taxes to subsidize
somebody else in doing business.
Bouslaugh: My problem is you are trying to make it a business where it really isn't because
most of these places do not operate over two or three years. just to get over the hump if
even that. Scene of the places last longer than that if they are going to operate five or
ten years then lets make them a business.
Myers: I understand what you are saying, thank you.
Lee Williams, 712 Longforc], Williams was sworn by the City Attorney:
Williams: Other cc~enuriities in southern Idaho do not seem to have a problem with this
issue like Meridian does, I am all for it, I do not think child care is a business
where it is operated out of the home unless scenebody to attract more children starts
putting up you know a super slide or etc., just like what was brought up earlier, is
a family with twelve children any different than sceneone.taking care of twelve children.
I live across the street from a day care and I have no problems with it, it is great.
All I can say is ditto to the pros that have been said about it, other cx~emanities in
southern Idaho have no problems with the ones I am familiar with and lived in, have no
problems letting day cares operate without permits, still not recognized as a business
unless they are a State Licensed Day Care and then you run into the regulation problems.
If I had children , I would like to be able to have someone in the neighborhood watch
them when the wife and myself were at work. Day Care is not a highly profitable business
if you want to call it a business, I find it insane that sceneone wants to call day care
a business, a small day care.
Brewer: It is definitely a business, any incorporated city in the State of Idaho right
now is facing the same problems we here in Meridian are, in fact we have given the
situation a great deal more due credit than many of the other cities, they have just sat
down and made rules.
Brenda Lundy, 3750 Quaker Ridge, Lundy was sworn by the City Attorney:
Lundy: We recently moved here to Meridian, we went to school here, we moved here because
we really liked the Meridian area, I have had problems finding care for my child, I
tried several different ones, I have a 1~ year old and and eight year old, I preferred
to get sceneone close so my 8 year old could go to school and my yougest could be with
her at the same place, my youngest is not trained so I could not get her in anyplace
except a hcs~ day care. MY husband & I both feel that a hcene day care is better for
our children as they feel more secure with the same person. I agree there should be
rules and regulations so that my children are taken care of properly, but at the same
time I have to be able to afford having my child taken care of while I work or I am
just paying a baby sitter to work and I might as well stay home and take care of the
child myself and Icannot afford to do that either. Most places charge a large amount
especially for a small child if you can get them in a small child under two year old.
MERZD]"Al~T CITY COUNCIL • .
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 4
This is my main concern, I agree with you there should be rules and regulations but a
large amount to tack onto to a person to have business is going to be passed on to us
and that is going to kill us as well as the day care operators. I sympathize with the
Council's position and I sympathize with scene people who do not want businesses in their
area but at the same time I agree with the situation, I scene from a large family and there
was no problem a.s long as there were rules and regulation, you do not go out in the yard
scream at the top of your lungs, or etc. Timmy would the children in the subdivision being
together be any different than a day care with twelve children, is that going to cause
any ire uproar. If a day care charging for babysitting, they are washing faces, changing
diapers and etc. they have to be reimbursed something for doing this why is it any different
than you going out for the evening and having someone cane in and babysitting your children,
that is not a business.
Brewer: Just a little history and background here, the City is not the one that is causing
the licensing, you people have to be licensed to be in business now, they have made it that
way for a number of different reasons, everywhere from molestation to govermnent commodities,
have brought this on and so they have established it definately as a business, it has to
be licensed to receive cce~anodities and in order to be licensed it has to be inspected, to
make certain it is a safe facility, so it has brought about a lot of things that just have
to occur now basically all we are doing is trying to establish the fees, fair fees, that
should be charged for you people to be in business and also trying to be fair and letting
the neighbors and other people in the cc~¢rnuiity have a say as to whether they would like
to have thin next door or not.
Lundy: I need to have a copy of of what you have for the rules and regulations, what is
are there different types of day care?
Brewer: Yes, according to rnunbers.
Lundy: So not everybody is not going to be charged, like those $1100 hookup fees?
Giesler: The hookup fees is probably one of the main issues, it is here in these findings
that it would not be brought about unless we see that the use quite a bit greater than
before, a lot more water, a lot more sewer usage, we have always said in the past if a
business does start in a home, it should be run like a business and that does require
additional hookup fees depending upon the amount of useage, we have to have those fees
to payoff the different costs we incuYr. The way it is set uP here if we do not see any
basic change in their useage the additional fees would not be requ_ised.
Lundy: Is there going to be any help like if a person is charged $1200.00?
Giesler: We will work with them anyway, we have a cceunitte that they can come before,
any problems that scene uP as far as them being able to pay for it, we will work with
thin any way we can, that has been brought up at all these meetings, we are definitely
not trying to put them out of business, we are just trying to, the fees that occur to
the City, we are just trying to turn around and recoup our fees, we cannot expect the
other residents of the City to pay for their business out of their hcene. You also
brought the question about the family that had ten or twelve children what difference
that was, well there is a lot of difference, in scene of these subdivisions you do not
need the added traffic. One subdivision right now that I would have a lot of problems
with is Sunnybrook Farms, that has one entrance and one exit and I drive by that every
day and you can see cars stacked uP there waiting to get out, if you take ten to twelve
children and scene of them have said they have as high as twenty at different times
during the day that is going to be a lot of added traffic. This is one of several thing
you do not think ..about. When you are putting a business or something like that next to
MERTD7AN CITY COUNCIL , •
AUGUST 7,6, 1988
PAGE # 5
saneones have they should be able to have the right to say whether or not they want that
gadded traffics or use next to them and that is all we are asking that thyme are able to
voice their opinion and that these. operators go through the process to for these
people to voice their opinion, if everyone in fact is like the last bunch that have gotten
up here and testified you are all for it and you are all around this individual, I do not
think they are going to have much of a problem getting their deal approved, but if you
came in for one and everyone that got up was against you then you might have a problem.
Lundy: Would not that kind of qualify under like the covenants of the subdivision?
Giesler: That is exactly right and that is included in the amendments also.
Lundy: For businessess?
Giesler: You will have to have the covenants approved for a business to be out of that
subdivision, mast of your newer subdivisions have covenants and I will tell you most of
them restrict businesses being run out of a have or any type of use like that so they
would have to get those changed and then if they can get them changed we will hear the
application and if there is no canplaints, we understand we need day care centers and
I think the residential areas are not a bad place to have them but I think those
neighbors who are effected should be able to voice their opinion. If there are any
costs incurred to the City through you wanting to start one or anyone else those fees
need to be passed on to that individual.
Lundy: That is one of my concerns, if you charge a large fee that they have to cane up
with they are going to pass that on to me and that is main reason why I do not have my
children at a day care in town like Greenleaf.
Giesler: In visiting with then and with the operators their fees were not any different.
Lundy: I found quite a difference, that is why I go to the bane.
Giesler: We are not trying to put then out of business, we are not starting rules and
regulations or ordinances: that are putting then out of business, they have always been
here, it is just that the operators of the day cares have been in violation of the
ordinances and because of the new licensing requir~l by the State now they are needed
to have these enforced.
Myers:The City_isn"t/going to make any money on this thing, in fact I would suspect if
we sat down and ran one through on a cost basis what it cost the City and of course
the City is you people to, you would be surprised as to what the cost would be as
opposed to what we are charging on it.
Lundy: My concern is I spent several months trying to find,saneone to take care of my'
children and if this goes in and they can not afford to pay~it they will close their
doors and I will be without any care again: `
Giesler: It is not going in, it has always been in.
Lundy: These rules are going to be enforced then?
Myers: We have changed them sanewhat ,which we think is for the better for the catmiuiity
and the day care operators, we have defined a few things that were not defined before.
One thing I want to say is the $1100 fee that has been talked about for the hookup fees
for the water & sewer, meet df the ds,~" ~'e people I have talked to assured us that the
children that are car~i.ng are people that reside in the City of Meridian so my opinion is
that they should not be charged that extra hookup and I have voiced that before.
MERIDIAN CITY COL~TCIL . •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 6
They should not be charged unless for some unknown reason all of the sudden, we figure
the average household uses 6500 gallons per month, if you went from 6500 to 65000 there
might be something to look at.
Jane Fischer, 715 Longford, Fischer was sworn by the City Attorney:
Fischer: What is the decision on the twelve children, is it just twelve in one day or
twelve at any one time.
Giesler: Twelve enrolled.
Fischer: Whether we have the child just on Monday, that counts for one child for the week.,
how did you cane out on this?
Giesler: Visiting with different canmunities some of them had it that way and we were try-
ing to get away from a lot of the traffic problems that could come about and in visiting
with other ca~ununities on what they are doing and on what they are going to do, the
changes that some of them are going to be making that is what we came up with. It will
be the number of children who are enrolled in your day care.
Fischer: So if I take a child because the parents go bowling or something on Friday nit' e
that is going to count as one of my children enrolled?
Giesler: It does state enrolled, I know for a fact that it is twelve in one day, if you
have twenty children throughout a day that is not allowed then you would be going into a
center type atmosphere.
Fischer: My understanding of a center is thirteen or more at any one time, isn't that
right?
City Attorney: I might address that, the definition that we modeled ours after are two,
one S the Boise City definition and one is the State definition. The definitions basic-
ally read that it is the care of the children throughout the day, that is not the exact
language but that is the idea and I think that the language that is used in those
definitions is clear that it means that you take the number of children that are there
throughout the day not necessary at any one time during the day, where that discrepancy
that you raised by guaging by the number of children that are at the facility at any one
time has cxene about by not through the definition, it has cane about through interpret-
ation of the definition and I think it is clear legally that definition refers to the
rnunber of children that are there throughout the day. To answer your question the note
on the definition is that it should be noted that number of children in :a day facility
should be determined on the total number of rhi.ldren served by the facility during the
entire day and not just the number of children at the facility at any one time.
Fischer: Say I have six children who go to school and I have them just in the morning
and an hour after school and six children that are day time and they are all gone by
six o'clock and I have saneone call me and ask it I can take their child .for a few hours
in the evening, legally by Meridian I am not allowed to, even though I do not have any
children there at the house.
City Attorney: If you had a permit to operate a Group Child Care Herne which allows twelve
-then you could not that thirteenth child in the evening, if you had a Child Care
Center permit which allows twelve or more then you could .
Fischer: My concern is I do a lot of dropins, what should the parents do about that,
I try to be as full as I can during the day and I have several children enrolled, not that
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 7
I have them on a full time basis but scene of them are drop-ins like parents have to go to
the doctor during the day or something like that, they call me and provided I am not full
I can take than, they have to call and ask if I am full at that point, if I have a child
that is sick or on vacation the way I have been doing it I have the room for that child
for a short time, without that I just want full time children what do people do with
their drop-ins.
Brewer: I believe in writing all ordinances, all rules and regulations they are written to
cover a majority there will always be a minority that this regulation will not address, you
seem to be a minority in this instance in that you want to do something a bit irregular
the rule will not cover that it will be explicit it will start here and end there.
Myers: I think the simple solution is that you apply for a child care center.
Fischer: I do not want a center though.
Myers: If you are going to have thirteen children during the day.
Fischer: No, not thirteen children at any one time, during the day.
There was discussion on different ways to reduce the costs involved in the permit.
Certified letters and etc.
Brewer: That ccenpletes the list of person who signed up to testify tonne on this issue,
therefore I will close the Public Hearing, gentlemen our options tonne are to accept the
Planning & Zoning findings and Facts and instruct our Attorney to prepare the appropriate
ordinance ; or if you feel there has been enough testimony tonne to warrant the prepar-
ation of new findings that would be the step to take however I might say though the
representation and the testimony tonne as far as the total numbers we have been dealing
with since this arrived are very small.
The Motion was made by Giesler and seconded by Tolsma to take the comments that have been
given tonne and incorporate them into the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law
before this City Council takes action on this issue.
Motion Carried: All Yea:
It~n #2: Public Hearing: Rezone Request by Bud Gingrich:
Dale Oamby was in the audience and was representing Mr. Gingrich:
Dale Ownby, 1195 East Overland, Ownby was sHrorn by the City Attorney:
Ownby: What you have before you is an application for a rezone from an existing residential
zone, this property has been laying vacant now since back in the sixties when the school
district the property for the school, we are asking for a R-15 Zone wh~h is ma~lti-family
dwellings, the property has a length of approximately 350 feet of frontage along 8th
street with a depth of approximately 100 feet at the south end and narrows down to about
40 feet at the north end. The property tJo the south of this is all single family residential
and the bulk of the property to the north is multi-family, it would be my reccarmendation
that this rezone be approved so this property can be cleaned up and put to the most eff-
icient use. At this time we do not know the exact square footage of this properly but is
somewhere between 20,000 and 24,000. Mr. Gingrich would have to abide with the existing
City Ordinances as to the number of units that he could put on there, have the required
numbeJC of parking spaces as well as the number of curb cuts that ACfID would allow. The
type of buildings Mr. Gingrich would build would be attractive buildings such as the ones
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
AUGUST 16, 1.988
PAGE # 8
he built behind the Hungry Onion.
Myers: I am familiar with the units at the Hungry Onion, is that similar to what he will
put on this property?
Ownby: Possibility until the property is surveyed we actually cannot tell, I would have to
assume it is going to be somewhere between 4 and 7 units. There are also several easements
on this property that will have to be taken into consideration.
Tolsma: You do not know whether it is going to be one or two story units?
Ownby: There might be some of them that would be two story. The most econcanical and effic-
ient way to do~it and still have a very desireable unit.
Brewer: We will now open the Public Hearing, is there anyone in the audience who wishes to
testify on this item?
Mary Boice, 1319 W. 7th St., Mrs. Boice was sworn by the City Attorney.
Boise: Presented a petition signed by eleven property owners in the immediate area that
opposed this rezone, (petition on file with these minutes) we feel it is to many buildings
for the area in as much as there is no off street parking for the school, there are many
buses stop there and there is no parking whatever provided for them. You are going to
have the traffic..frcen this development bucking the traffic already there as well as the
children in the school crossing the street.
Giesler: That walkway will not be done away with the one between 7th & 8th?
Boise: I do not believe so. I would hate to see the irrigation ditch closed a.s most of
the neighbors use it for irrigation.
Brewer: What I know about water rights I do not believe then eis any way it could be closed
water will have to continue to be delivered t~ the present users, whether the ditch be
tiled or what.
Boise: It would definately have to have some kind of protection if you were going to have
families in there because ._ you just can not watch every child to see that they do
not get in the ditch, it is fenced now.
Brewer: I think all of us on the Council, I have been in Meridian about fifteen years and
I would have to say that is a odd piece of property, odd shaped, odd location and there
are scene precedences however set down the street already with aparisnent complexes, we
appreciate Mrs. Boise's continents. Being there is no one else signed up to testify on this
issue, I will close the Public Hearing. Are there any continents from the Council Members,
if not we have the same options as we had with the other issue, we can accept the Findings
that were prepared for the Planning & Zoning and instruct that an Orcllnance be prepared
or we can take into consideration the testimony here tonite and have new findings made.
Myers: I would make a Motion that we accept the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law
that have been presented, I can appreciate Mrs. Boise's concern about the properly but
I have been here sixteen years and lived close to this property and whatever they put on
it would be an improvement.
Tolsma: I have a question have all the ccmrnents made been included in the Findings?
Mr. Tolsma was advised they had been.
MERIDIAN cITY CoUNCrz
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 9
Giesler: May I look at that petition that was presented torsi-te?
The lotion made by Myers died for lack of a second.
The N.btion was made by Giesler and seconded by Tolsma that this itezn,be postponed until,
the next meeting and that the City Attorney review this testimony to see if additional.
finding need to be made before a final decision is made.
Motion Carried: Giesler, Yea: Tolsma, Yea: Myers, Nay:
Brewer: It seem there is mere discussion on this item, Mr. Ownby has sane comments.
Owriby: Mr. Gingrich may want to say something to, if I could just give you a little history
on this property, this property was put up for bid almost one year ago, this is our third
time of bidding on this property and what I would call problems with the newspaper and
other problems related to it, it has been turned down and this is the first time that it
has been accepted, if the property is not closed in ninety days then it must go through the
same process again, my client has told me he is not willing to bid on it again if this
happens because of the money he has spent on it approximately $500.00 to get it to this
point, the School District they are sick of it and I can appreciate your thoughts on it
but I do not think anything is going to change two weeks from nvw. I think the same people
are going to be opposed to it, if the Council and Council President want a lot of weeds
there which it has been for the last fifteen or twenty years that is probably what it is
going to be, so I just point this out that it will not close if it is put off at this
meeting, it will have to go through the process again.
Giesler: Your ninety days are almost up?
Ownby: That is correct, they would be up prior to your next meeting. We got the application
in as soon as we could and it was advertised as soon as possible. The property was appraised
for 15,000 and there is not going to be anybody purchase this property for that and put a
single fa¢rdly dwelling on it.
Bud )Gingrich, 3650 Sugarcreek Dr.~
Gingrich: This has been going on for six or eight months, I orginally bid this and won the
bid ,the other party complained and the Attorney through out the bids, it was rebid and
the other party won and then did not close on it, it was rebid again and again I won the
bid, we have gone through the P &Z and everytlvng, the ninety days is up Sept. 7, 1988, all
I can say is this is not something I have to do, I have been at it long enough, if it is not
passed now with the money I have spent and what I have asked for, it ~n't fly because I will
back out, that is a promise. I'll go somewhere else and build a few units but I am new to
Meridian , a couple of years but I think you are right we have a fine weed patch is about
all that we have got. As far as units go, I may only be able to get four, if I am lucky I
can get six and they won't go two story they will be a story and a half but I need to know
tonite.
John Gipe, 1236 West 8th Street.
Gipe: I live right next to the property he is talking about, I have been there for twenty
scene years, so far I have taken care of the property right adjacent to me for the last nine
years anyway, keeping it m~aed and the whole works, I tried to buy the property because I
understood the City awned it, I tried to buy it because the School awned it, I still have
never been able to just that 30 feet now he ccenes along and says he is going to put tiro
story houses, he said a story and half the other time and he said four to six families the
last time nav I understand according to the petition which I have signed there could be as
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 10
many as fifteen families in there, the gclzool District has mowed that at least twice a year,
every year. The way I understand there is an easement for, the irrigation ditch that goes
along there which does run right adjacent to my property, it is tiled now, I would like to
know how far from that easement does he have to stay from my place and the ditch easement.
Brewer: That would .have to be eluded to, we are kind of doing things through the back door
here, that should have all came out during the Public Hearing.
Gipe: The reason I am doing this is I would at least like to see it held off to the next
meeting.
Brewer: Nir. Attorney do you have any thoughts?
City Attorney: I only have a proceedual suggestion, If it is the desire of the Council to
leave it with the last Nation and leave it tabled until September 6, 1988 then nothing needs
to be done, if it is the Council's position to reassess the issue then there needs to be a
Notion to rescind the previous Motion to table, that would need to be done by the individual
who made the Motion, withdrawal of the second would have to be done by the person who made
the second then you are back having the matter still before the Council at that time I
would say the best thing to do would be to reopen the Public Hearing, if there is a Motion
to do so, then you can do one of two things at that time, you can either ask these people
to be sworn and re-testify or since we are recording the meeting anyway, that they be sworn
and that they would like to incorporate as testimony before the Public Hearing what they
previously stated.
Myers: One question I had is either way we go is there any way, like Mr. Giesler wants to do
go take a look at this, is there anyway we could postpone it for a week would that do any
good? Would you still be interested in it at that point? Maybe have a special meeting.
Gingrich: I need at least two weeks for appraisal and etc.
Giesler: I would make the Motion that I would like to rescind the Motion to table that I
previously made, the reason being I did not realize we were up against a time frame. I
have seen Mr. Gingrich's work before, it is first class, I wish all of our multiple
family dwellings were of that .caliber, I thought we had more time on this, I would hate
to see this opportunity go by the wayside and see that piece of property stay as is has
over the years, so I would move to rescind my table.
Tolsma.: I would rescind my second, one question, the well site that we have at the end of
Camelia is that awned by the City?
Mr. Tolsnla. was advised that it was owned by the School District.
Brewer: The Notion has been made by Giesler to rescind his motion to table and Tolsma has
made the motion to rescind his second to Gieslers Motion;
Notion Carried: All Yea:
The Nation was made by Giesler and seconded by Tolsma to re-open the Public Hearing:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
Brewer: I will now reropen the Public Hearing, as was stated by the_City Attorney .if-the
persons who con4nented after the Public Hearing was closed wish their cce~¢nents entered into
the record wish to be sworn and request their cce~unents entered into the record may do so.
Boice: I wish to have my comments stand as stated, Boice was sworn previously:
MII2IDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 11
Dale Ownby who was sworn previously, wished his additional cxa~ments entered into the
record for the Public Hearing: The conrtnents made after the Public Hearing was closed.
,~ J hni~e, 1236 West 8th Street, Gipe was sworn by the .City Attorney:
Gipe: I wish that the comments I made after the Public Hearing was closed be entered into
the record for the Public Hearing:
Gingrich, 3650 Sugar Creek Drive, Gingrich was sworn by the City Attorney:
Gingrich: I wish that the cceartents I made after the Public Hearing was closed be entered
into the record of the Public Hearing:
Brewer: Is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to offer testimony or offer further
testimony on this request? There was no response, the Public Hearing was closed.
City Engineer: I do not know if there is some confusion but that thirty foot strip is not
part of this as I under stand it.
The City Engineer was advised the description included the thirty foot strip even .though
it was not shaded on the map.
Brewer: Again it seems like every time we get a problen like this before us, we have to
appreciate everyones concern but we sitting here on the Council have to consider the entire
City and the plight of that property up to this point and if an opportunity like this isn't
taken and it does seem like the last one for a while, I guess we would have to look forward
to that property re~na;n;ng like it has been forever.
Myers: :%~'You~~2xotxld Gnotrafetr ~:~ _families on this property, the ordinance would not allow it,
the ordnance says you have to have so much area and so much parking ,that is why they are
saying four to six becuase they are not sure of the amount of area. That ditch will still
be there isn't that right.
Gingrich: With the ditch easement and other easements on the propety I know there will not be
more than seven units and maybe only four and the ditch will have to be left as it is, I
will .i~p~pbably fence it.
Boice: The history of this property was that it was traded to the District by the ACEID and
orginally they were going to use it for an administation office, later for parking of the
school buses, they have no place to park the buses and the children have to load in the
street which is very dangerous, I could see a Doctors Office or something like that there
but not five or six additional families to that area for additional traffic.
The Motion was made by Myers and seconded by Giesler to approve the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law as prepared by the Attorney for the Planning & Zoning Ccersaission:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
The Motion was made by Myers and seconded by Giesler to have the City Attorney prepare the
necessary ordinance to rezone this property as requested in the application.
Motion Carried: All Yea:
City Attorney: I might interject something here for the pu~].ics infoanation, the rezone has
been approved but the ordinance has. not been passed by the Council to reflect this rezone,
the ordinance will have to be approved at the next Council meeting.
,~
. MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PACE # 12
Giesler: I would like to add to this, Mrs. Boice it is really a tough decision but all I
want to say is that if it was some of the buildings that been built in this c~tntunity that
I am thinking about I would not be in favor of it, these will be very nice unit and kept up
very well, hopefully this will make you feel better. I really do feel ccenforable after
seeing Mr. Gingrich's different projects.
It~tt #3: Transfer of Beer License from Hugo Deli to Larry & Pat's Deli:
Brewer: Hugo's Deli has been sold and the License needs to be tranferred to the new owners,
the Chief of Police has checked this and found no problems with the transfer.
The Notion was made by Myers and seconded by Tolsma to transfer the beer license from Hugo's
Deli to Larry & Pat's Deli:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
Item. #4: Resolution #120: Gem Cca~-unity Support Resolution:
Brewer: I will read the Resolution which pertains to the Council giving their support to
the Gott Ccm¢ttunities Program, (Resolution on file with these minutes) .
The Motion was made by Giesler and seconded by Myers to approve Resolution #120:
Motion Carried: All Yea:
DepartrtteYtt Reports
Giesler: We have hired a new patrolman to replace Al Thorsuen who recently left the
Police Department to go to Oregon. He is on duty now.
Tolsma: I see there were three gentleman here who have left that have conversed with me
regarding the problem with. the noise at Hoff Lumber Ccenpany. Creating noise so people can
not sleep at night is was supposed to be resolv~7. about a month ago, it has not been resolved
we have people who if it is not going to be resolved shortly that are going to do their
utmost to see it shut down. There is a noise ordinance in the State of Idaho.
Brewer: Has anyone or the City taken any decimal meter tests fret the area of c~ttplaints?
There was more discussion on this matter.
Brewer: There must be steps that could be taken to reduce the sound some, I do not think
we can ask theta to shut their plant down from the standpoint they have made a tremendous
investment there and apparently it is a twenty four hour operation to be sucessful, if it
does prove to be a qualified legitimate gripe there needs to be something definately done
about it, if it takes a legal reading from a tertian distance lets get it done so we have
something to go to Hoff with and it has to be remedied. Counselor do you have any conments?
City Attorney: I have not looked into the thing, I have not been asked to but I can find
out what the provisions are and figtare out the best way to approach it.
Brewer: Counselor, I do not ]mow exactly what to instuct you to~do, but we certainly ask you
to to do anything you can to help address this problel[t.
City Clerk: I might advise that we have hired a new Building Inspector, Paul Stutztnan to
replace Mr. Mitich, he started today, he will probably be able to also become the Plumbing
Inspector.
• . ~.
,MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL • •
AUGUST 16, 1988
PAGE # 13
Brewer: Would you address the concerns that came primarily frcen Mr. Morrow as to why we
chose a building and plumbing inspector:as opposed to 'a building and electrical :inspector?
City Clerk: I might let the City Engineer address this?
City Engineer:. I think the primary probl~n, I think we solved the timing problem for
inspection for the sewer & water connections, I have not heard any complaints concerning
the timing by our departments in responding for inspections. We established a procedure
of which the contractors have been made aware of. The rub comes on this plumbing thing.
because the contractors is rern~ired to receive two inspections, the City inspects the
connection of lines to the City lines, the State also has jurisdicition over that, they
inspect it because it is on the property. so what the builder is faced with is a double
inspection fee and a double inspection time. I think Mr. Morrow has felt this is a burden
to the builder, as far as expense is concerned, as far as timing is concerned.There is
no way the State was going to relinquish this to us unless we had a qualified plumbing
inspector. The same procedure also applies to sprinkler systems with the water department.
Being no further business to cane before the Council the Motion was made by Myers and
seconded by Tolsma to adjourn at 9: 24 p.m.:
Motion Carried; All Yea:
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE
APPROVID:
BILL BREWER, P IDENT OF THE COUNCIL
ATTEST:
Mayor Council
P & Z Cc~anission
At , Eng, Fire
Po ice, Ward, Stuart,
Gass, Stutzman, Hallett
Valley News, Statesman
ACfID, NINID, CDH,ACC
Settler Irrigation
File (4)
Mail (2)