2008 05-01Meridian PlanninA and Zoninq Meetinq Mav 1, 2008
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of May 1, 2008, was called to
order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman David Moe.
Members Present: Chairman David Moe, Commissioner Joe Marshall, Vice-Chairman
Wendy Newton-Huckabay, Commissioner Michael Rohm, and Commissioner Tom
O'Brien.
Ofhers Present: Ted Baird, Machelle Hill, Sonya Watters, Scott Steckline and Dean
Willis.
Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance:
Roll-call
X Wendy Newton-Huckabay X Tom O'Brien
X Michael Rohm X Joe Marshall
X David Moe - Chairman
Moe: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the regularly scheduled
meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission for May 1 st, 2008. I'd like to call the
meeting to order and ask the clerk to call roll, please.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Moe: Thank you very much. Next thing on the agenda would be the adoption of the
agenda and there are a couple changes, Commissioners. On the agenda, Items -- No.
4 is AZ 08-001, ~ the Overland Village, that hearing will be continued to our regular
meeting of the 15fh of May. Along with that, Items No. 8 and No. 9, RZ 08-001 and
CUP 08-005, for Trinity Assisted Living, will also be continued to the meeting of the -- of
May 15th. Other than that, everything else will stay as is. So, could I get someone to
make a motion to approve the adopted agenda?
O'Brien: So moved.
Marshail: I second.
Moe: Motion to approve and second. All those in favor of the adoption of the agenda
say aye. Opposed? That mofion carries.
MOTION CARRI'ED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of April 3, 2008 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting:
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 2 of 40
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: CUP 08-
002 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a drive through
establishment in a C-G zone within 300 feet of another drive
through facility for Sonic Southern Sprinqs by Boise Food Service
- 1870 South Meridian Road:
Moe: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. We have two items on the
Consent Agenda, one being the meeting minutes of April 3rd, 2008, of the Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting. And, then, B is the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law for denial of CUP 08-002 for Sonic Southern Springs. Any discussion or can I get a
motion? ,
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I move we approve the Consent Agenda as written.
Rohm: Second.
Moe: It has been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda as noted. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? That motion carries as well.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Continued Public Hearing from March 20, 2008: AZ 08-001 Request
for Annexation and Zoning of 9.06 acres from the RUT & R1 zoning
districts in Ada County to the GG zoning district for Overland Villaqe by
Relo Development - 3330 E. Overland Road: _
Moe: Okay. Well, we are still not in video, but we have got a couple other things we
aan go ahead and do, at least right now. I will -- I am going to reopen the continued
Public Hearing for AZ 08-001, for the sole purpose to continue it to the regularly
scheduled P&Z meeting of May 5th -- May 15th, 2008.
Rohm: So moved.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Moe: It has been moved and seconded to continue AZ 08-001 to the regularly
scheduled meeting of the 15th of May. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That
motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Watters: We are working on it.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 3 of 40
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: Maybe we can go ahead and jump ahead to Items 8 and 9 and
open those and confinue them as well while we are waiting for AV.
Item 8: Public Hearing: RZ 08-001 Request to Rezone 0.32 acres from R-4 to
O-T zone for Trinity Assisted Living by Elisha Ricky - 1353 W. 1 St
Street:
Item 9: Public Hearing: CUP 08-005 Request for Conditional Use Permit to
operate a 24-hour Nursing Care Facility in a proposed O-T zoning district
and conditional use approval for a site and building that does not meet the
criteria of the Downtown Meridian Design Guidelines for Trinity Assisted
Living by Elisha Ricky - 1353 W. 1 S~ Street:
Moe: I think we can sure do that. Okay. So, I will open the Public Hearing for RZ 08-
001 and CUP 08-005 for Trinity Assisted Living for the sole purpose of continuing fhose
hearings to the regularly scheduled meefiing of the 15th of May.
Rohm: So moved.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
O'Brien: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to continue RZ 08-001 and CUP 08-005 to the
regularly scheduled meeting of the 15th of May for Trinity Assisted Living. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed same sign? Those motions carry.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: I'm seeing somefhing on fhe screen, so we will -- we will go forward. At this time,
before I do open the Public Hearing, I-- there is faces I haven't seen, so I kind of want
to give you kind of a rundown on how the~process works here. I will open the Public
Hearing and ask the staff to give an overview of the project. After they are done the
Commission may have some questions of staff. If not, we will, then, ask the applicant to
come forward. The applicant will have 15 minutes to review their project, after which
time, then, anyone that has signed up in the back to speak in the audience, you will
have three minutes to make your point known. After everyone fhat's been signed up is
through there, I will ask one more time if there is anyone else in the audience that would
like to speak and you will also be given three minutes to do so. After which time the
applicant, then, will be given time to come and rebut what the folks in fhe audience had
requested.
Item 5: Public Hearing: CUP 08-009 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a
convenience store and gas station in a C-G zoning district per requirement
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May 1, 2008
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of the Development Agreement for Maverik by Maverick, Inc. - NWC of N.
Ten Mile Road and W. Ustick Road:
Moe: So, on that note I would like to open the Public Hearing for CUP 08-009 for the
Maverick and ask staff to open.
Watters: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The application
before you is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for the operation of a convenience
store and fuel sales facility in a C-G zoning district per requirement of the development
agreement for this property. The site is located on the northwest corner of North Ten
Mile Road and West Ustick Road on Lot 4, Block 1, of McNellis Subdivision. The
property is currently zoned C-G and consists of 1.14 acres of land. Here is an aerial
view of the property. The site is currently vacant. North of the site is vacant property in
and McNellis Subdivision that is in transition to commercial use, zoned C-G. To the
east are single family residences in Hartford Subdivision, zoned R-4. To the west is
agricultural property in McNellis Subdivision fhat is in firansition to commercial office
use, zoned L-O. And to the south is rural residential property, zoned R-1 in Ada
County. The applicant submitted a site plan as shown that demonstrates how this
property is proposed to develop in the future with a 4,200 square foot Maverick
convenience store and fuel sales facility, consisting of five fueling islands. The
Maverick building is proposed to be right there. The fuel islands are right here. Per the
existing development agreement for this property, a Conditional Use Permit is required
for the proposed use. Parking is proposed on the site in excess of UDC standards. A
minimum of one bicycle parking space shall be proyided on the site. Outdoor seating is
not proposed by the applicant and is not approved with this application. Access to this
site is proposed from West Ustick Road to the west of the site, across Lot 5, Block 1,
which is right here. This is Ustick along the bottom here. And from Ten Mile Road to
the north of this site -- you can't see it on this plan, but up here across Lots 2 and 3 of
McNellis Subdivision, via an ingress-egress cross-access easement benefiting the
subject lot, recorded on the final plat as shown. Direct lot access to Ustick and Ten Mile
Roads is not proposed or approved with this application. Staff is supportive of the
proposed off-site access point to this site. Actually, here is a copy of the plat that shows
the access. This is the site here on the corner. This is the access from Ustick Road
and from Ten Mile right here. The applicant has submitted a landscape plan for this site
as shown. A 25 foot wide street buffer is required along Ustick and Ten Mile Roads as
shown, to be installed with the subdivision improvements. A 20 foot wide landscape
buffer is required to be installed with development of this site along the west property
boundary. Right here. As a buffer between the subject lot and the L-O zoned lot to the
west per requirement of the preliminary plat. Buffer will be located on the adjacent lot,
rather than the subject lot, as depicted on an easement on the final plat. There are
several additional trees labeled wifh an R on the plans fhat are proposed above the
required amount for mitigation of exisfiing trees that were removed from the site during
development of the property. Building elevations were submitted with this application as
shown. ~ Exterior materials are proposed to be EFIS exterior insulation and finish
system. This is synthetic stucco. With stone veneer accents. The roof and awning are
proposed to be metal. Staff has no objections to fhe elevations proposed by the
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May 1, 2008
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applicant, as they comply with the maximum building height and size requirements of
the C-G district. Chain link fencing with slats is proposed along the east and south
sides of the building to screen outdoor service and equipment areas. You can see it on
fhis elevation. It's that part right there and right there and a little bit right there. Per the
Unified Development Code this does qualify as a screening material. The applicant
should present an alternative plan for screening this area, such as landscaping with a
wall or a fence that meets the requirements of the UDC. The hours of operation for the
proposed use are 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The Commission should
consider any testimony from neighbors in determining if the proposed hours of operation
are appropriate or if restrictions should be added as a condition of approval. Staff is
recommending approval of the requested Conditional Use Permit as stated in the staff
report, subject to the conditions listed in Exhibit B. Staff will stand for any questions the
Commission may have at fhis time.
Moe: Any questions, Commissioners?
O'Brien: One question, Sonya. Mr. Chairman. On -- on the bicycle parking space, what
size is that? How does -- how is it configured?
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner O'Brien, a bicycle parking
space can just be in a bicycle rack.
OBrien: Okay.
Watters: Our UDC requirement is one bicycle space for every 25 vehicular spaces, so a
minimum of one is required.
O'Brien: So, one meaning a bicycle rack that has multiple slots.
Watters: Capable -- one bicycle rack capable of holding -- of holding at least one
bicycle.
O'Brien: Okay.
Watters: Normally they hold more than that.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you.
Moe: Any other Commissioners have any questions?
Rohm: Not at this time.
Moe: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward, please?
McDougal: My name is Brad McDougal, I represent Maverick. Sonya did a pretty good
job of -- ~
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May 1, 2008
Page 6 of 40
Moe: Can you give your address, please.
McDougal: My home address?
Moe: We just need an address.
McDougal: 880 West Center Street, North Salt Lake, Utah. Sonya did a good job of
explaining what we plan to do. We have got quite a few stations throughout the Boise
area. You're probably familiar with a few of them. The latest one we built -- we just
opened one about two weeks ago on Lake Hazel and Cloverdale, which is exactly what
we will build here -- what we'd like to build here, if you'd like to see what we'd like to do
there. As far as the fencing goes, Sonya mentioned that the code does not allow a
chain link. We would have no problem putting a vinyl fence in. We typically go with
chain link, because the big white surfaces, people tend to like to paint on and chain link
seems to be a little better, but we have no problem with a vinyl fence. And like I said,
she did a great job explaining it. If you have any questions for me I'd be happy to
answer fhem.
Moe: Thank you very much. Any questions, Commissioners?
Rohm: I'm just curious if you had any communication with any of the neighbors or had a
neighborhood meeting or anything?
McDougal: We did have a neighborhood meeting. I was not involved with it. We had
another gentleman that held that neighborhood meeting and knew there were some
comments about the area with the neighbors around there. One of the concems was
typically we have a-- a picnic area out to the side of our building where people can sit
and eat a hotdog or a sandwich. Some people were concerned about that, so we
removed that from our site plan. There has been a little bit of concern about the lights
shining from our stations. One of the things -- as we are selecting sites, we are not
what you would call a destination, like a Wal-Mart or a Target, a shopping center where
people -- you know, if you want to go shopping for clofhes you have Kohl's in mind or
you want to go to a mall. As you look at convenience stations, it's -- and think of your
own shopping habits, most people buy gas close to their home or close to their work or
on the road that you typically travel. So, as we are looking for new sites for our stations,
we go to roads where there is quite a bit of traffic, where there is -- you know, people
can stop. As we look at the demographics, we have probably 30 percent of our clients
come from wifhin a half mile, 50 to 60 percent within a mile. So, we want to have larger
populations there, beaause the people aren't typically coming from outside to shop --
shop for gas. And like I said, think of your own driving habits, you're not going to drive --~
most people don't drive across town because Maverick's got the cheapest gas, you
know, or Flying J or whoever you typically shop. You would do it by your office and by
your home or on the way to where you're going. See, we typically like to find those
spots where the roads are already busy, where the people are already living there, so
we can service fhose -- those clients. And so that's one of the reasons we chose this
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May 1, 2008
Page 7 of 40
spot, because the roads are busy fihere. We don't -- we don't generate traffic, we try
and capitalize on the traffic fihat's already there. So, there were concerns about lighting
and I think with some of the landscaping it's going to knock down a lot of that lighting
that's shining out. All of our fixtures on our buildings, they are a shoebox type fixture,
which doesn't allow much light to get outside of our site and we try and eliminate as
much of that light firespass as possible to keep if from shining into the neighbors'
windows and stuff and we want to be a good neighbor and if there are problems, we will
address those with shielding and whatever we can do to -- to help with those problems.
Typically, we like to stay open 24 hours and the way we determine our hours of
operation, we like to open up 24 hours at first and if people want to shop us, then, we
want to stay open to service them. If people don't want to shop us, then, we will close.
We operate a chain of about 185 stations right now and we have, I believe, four that are
nof open 24 hours. And that's just due to demand. There are people out there that, you
know, work odd hours that are on their way home from the grave night shift and want to
grab a hot dog or want to candy bar and so we want to be open to service those
customers, too. That's all I have, unless you have other questions for me.
Rohm: Okay. Thank you.
Moe: Commissioners, any other questions?
Newton-Huckabay: I have nothing.
O'Brien: Not at this time. Thanks.
Moe: Okay. On the sign-up sheet Janet Wilder. Please state your name and address
for me, please.
Wilder: Janet Wilder, 3340 North Ten Mile Road. Good evening, Commissioners and
clerk. And all the neighbors that I hope came to support us. First of all, I have a couple
of questions about the property. It's my understanding fhat this whole mile, except the
very northern part of it, is zoned wastewater treatment plant and the reason that it was
zoned that way was to protect the residential neighbor from the noise and odors of the
plant. Is this correct?
Moe: Based on the map up fhere, right there, right there, that this site is actually zoned
C-G, which --
Wilder: Well, the whole mile around it, though, was zoned wastewater treatment plant.
And this was, before it came in and got fhe commercial zoning, but the whole idea
behind it was to protect -- they weren't going to let any houses be built there; is that
right?
Rohm: I think that there is concurrence that they recognize that residenfial development
wouldn't go hand in hand with the wastewater treatment plant. That doesn't mean that
there would be no other development available --
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May 1, 2008
Page 8 of 40
Wilder: No. No.
Rohm: But residential development right next to the waste treatment plant, I think was
something that was avoided. ~
Watters: If I could speak to that. Excuse me. I think Mrs. Wilder is referencing our
Comprehensive Plan future land use map. That area is designated for wastewater
treatment plant, mixed use. She is correct; we don't really want to see new residential
uses in fhat area. However, this corner -- a good section of this corner is not
designated for that.
Wilder: But the original zoning for that was to protect the neighborhood from the noise
and odors and all that from the treatment plant.
Watters: It's not zoned that, but the future land use is designated for -- not for
residential use.
Wilder: Yeah. I'm using the wrong terminology. Well, fhat was something I wanted to
get -- see if I was thinking correctly on that. So, the next question I had is that it's also
my understanding that the city's responsible to protect the residential developments
from commercial developments that will add noise, lights, odor, traffic and crime. Is this
correct?
Baird: Mr. Chair, could I suggest that we collect all the questions and have either staff
or the applicant respond, rather than have a back and forth, because her three minutes
is going to get used up pretty fast.
Moe: That sounds like a great idea.
Wilder: Okay. Anyway, if -- depending on your answer to that, I just wondered if you
think that a 24/7 convenience store might possibly add to all of those above. Let's see.
Placing a convenience store gas station at the corner of Ten Mile and Ustick would not
buffer the residential areas from the wastewater treatment plant nuisances. By allowing
this store you bring the nuisances closer to us, because there are subdivisions, as you
can see, south and east of the proposal there. I also have a petition here from the
neighborhood around that fhat I'd like to turn in.
Moe: Okay. If you'd give it to the clerk, please.
Wilder: Okay. And also, then, I wanted to point out that one mile north of this corner a
Fast Freddy's is already planned. A convenience store. So, it would be at the corner of
Ten Mile and McMillan, just one mile north.
Rohm: I have a question of you, ma'am. Would you come back up to the microphone,
please?
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May 1, 2008
Page 9 of 40 '
Wilder: Yes.
Rohm: My first question of you, did you attend the neighborhood meeting?
Wilder: Yes, I did.
Rohm: Uh-huh. And what was your assessment of that neighborhood meeting? Was
there any discussion about any of the items that you brought before us tonight?
Wilder: Yes, there was. There were I think four neighbors showed up to it and we were
all pretty much in consensus that it was not a good location, because of the
neighborhood, you know. There are a lot of kids in those neighborhoods and it was kind
of pointed I thought when I started around with the petition, one of the little girls in the
neighborhood says, oh, good, I want a Maverick there, then, I can go there and buy
candy. Well, it's across that road, you know, where -- there is no stop signs -- or not a
sign, but a stop light. And the road does get really busy and there are -- she's -- I think
she's 11. She could probably get over the road and back, you know, but fihere is a lot of
little kids in there that are going to seize fhe same opportunity and want to go to that
store to get candy or pop or something, you know, so -- and there is neighborhood -- I
mean these neighborhoods are full of kids, so --
Rohm: Well, pardon my exception to your testimony, but it seems to me that if you have
a store in your community versus having to go another mile to get that same candy bar,
I think you're reducing the risk of hazards, rather than increasing it. I'm just saying from
my perspective that's what I`m saying is --
Wilder: Except that it isn't right across the street.
Rohm: It doesn't make any difference. If it's further away, they would have further to
travel to get that same candy bar.
Wilder: That's true, but --
Rohm: But I-- just a difference of opinion.
Wilder: Yeah. There aren't any sidewalks to that store, you know, so I-- I don't
suppose their parents would be letting them go that far. And I'm considering the little
kids that, you know, might try to dodge across the street to -- when parents aren't
looking.
Rohm: Thank you.
Moe: Thank you. Just for the record, the petition had 58 signatures on that and it is
making its way through Commissioners. Next name on fhe list was Will Farrell. Or
Farley. Excuse me.
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May 1, 2008
Page 10 of 40
Farley: My name is Will Farley. I live at 2976 West Wilder Street in Meridian. I didn't
know fhat I was signing up to speak in front of you guys, I was just opposing the
convenience store that is placed, but I did have a couple questions that I would like to
ask the Maverick representative, if possible.
Moe: Just ask fhem and he will come up later.
Farley: I have to ask the Commission, instead of Maverick itself?
Moe: That is correct.
Farley: Mr. Commissioner, I think he said that the impact of the Maverick store would
be for customers coming at the half mile radius from the store; is that correct? As of
right now, myself, I have noticed that Fast Eddy's has -- between Linder and Meridian
Road, along Ustick -- I travel an extra mile to go over there to get gas, out of my way. I
think that the impact of a convenience store would bring more traffic to the corner of Ten
Mile and Ustick area. I mean, granted, there is no traffic lights, so we will have backing
up like we do, let's see, around 5:00 o'clock, around Ustick and Linder Road, you know
how backed up that gets from that. I think the increased traffic will be brought on by the
convenience store itself. I don't know if we want to have them answer or --
Rohm: You give your testimony and, then, at the end they respond to all testimony.
Farley: Next question I have is when are service trucks going to come in, like Frito Lay
or are the gas -- to fill the pumps itself, because that does bring added noise to that
intersection, which does affect the people on the western side of our subdivision, mainly
the corner of Ten Mile and Ustick area. Those .are finro questions that I would like to
have asked, if possible.
Moe: Just one question for you --
Farley: No problem.
Moe: -- in regard to the delivery. What would be a time that you wouldn't have a
problem with?
Farley: Well, myself, I was unable to attend the other meeting due to work, but I believe
maybe -- people sleep at all time a night, like he was saying. You know, he -- I would --
maybe around noon-ish time, but, then, that affects fhe graveyard shift that they are
trying to provide hotdogs, people for as well, so --
Newton-Huckabay: So never?
Farley: Well, that would be fine with me, but that's just my -- I don't shop at Maverick,
because I don't like Maverick. The places where I used to live in Mountain Home, that's
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May 1, 2008
Page 11 of 40
where you used to go and get your drugs and stuff. ThaYs why loitering outside with the
picnic area was one thing I didn't like having outside our -- our Maverick, so that's just
what I would like to say.
Newton-Huckabay: Thank you.
Moe: Thank you very much.
Farley: If you have questions towards me I would be glad to answer them.
Moe: Thank you very much. There were a couple of names on here, but they crossed
themselves out, so if there is anyone else that would like to speak, you're more than
welcome. Seeing no one, would the applicant, please, come back up.
McDougal: Some of the questions that were brought up was, you know, the half mile
and that's just from the numbers Yhat we look at. Now, fhere are exceptions to fihat.
Some people do drive out of their way. But as we look at the generalized -- as we look
at our market share, the majority of our -- 25 percent of our market is in wifhin that half
mile radius and 50 percent probably comes within that mile radius. Now, where there is
a main corridor, Ten Mile and Ustick, people coming from a couple miles that travel from
Ustick and continue on passed, they might shop us also and people on Ten Mile going
either direcfion might stop and shop us. But, generally, you know, there is a lot more
gas stations in the area and people can stop every couple of miles. But we don't
foresee seeing, you know, people driving from Nampa to come get gas here or firom
Caldwell, they are not going to come over here. If you're driving down and you drive
passed it, you might stop and get gas and that's kind of -- as we look at locations that's
what we look for, traffic and, then, population. As far as service trucks, we have three
busy times in the day, between 6:00 and 8:00 o'clock when people are going to work,
lunchtime, and, then, when people are coming home from work. So, we try and do our
deliveries other than those times. We don't take deliveries very often at night.
Sometimes our gas trucks, if it's an extremely busy location where we -- some of our
stations we are picking fuel three and four times a day. Very few stations do we do that.
And deliveries we take in the morning after our 9:00 o'clock rush. Now, the delivery
guys kind of have a liftle bit of leeway when they are going to do things, but we try and
keep fhem away from our busy times and they don't like to work after hours either. So,
we typically are in the 9:00 to 5:00, the 7:00 to 5:00 range. You know, the noise and the
crime, those comments got brought up. Like I said, most of our -- our -- the people that
are coming here are coming -- they are already there. You know, the noise is there
from the road. People are driving very slow when they get on our site, so it's not
creating a whole lot of noise from cars. It's more the cars driving passed would be
creating a noise. As far as crime, I couldn't really address that. You might want to talk
to your police chief and see from statistics on crime and convenience stores. I don't
know much about fihat one, so -- any other questions you have. I think I--
Rohm: I don't have any.
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May 1, 2008
Page 12 of 40
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair'?
Moe: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. McDougal.
McDougal: Uh-huh.
Newton-Huckabay: McDougal; right?
McDougal: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Where on the property was the Public Hearing sign posted?
McDougal: You know, I'm not sure. I don't think we have to post a sign for that, we just
have to send out letters to within -- neighbors within 300 feet.
Newton-Huckabay: I see the picture of the sign, but I didn't --
McDougal: Oh, the public -- fihere should be one posted on Ten Mile and one on Ustick.
One on both roads and it has to be on the site.
Newton-Huckabay: I understand it has to be on the site, I was just curious.
McDougal: I think they are right on the roads there.
Newton-Huckabay: On the site near the road.
McDougak: I think by code they have to be up on the front of the road.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
McDougal; And they should be there for the next three days, I believe. It's a fairly large
sign.
Newton-Huckabay: Yeah. I-- okay. Thank you.
Moe: What's that?
Newton-Huckabay: Is that the picture that -- I just want to make sure that it wasn't stuck
out where it was difficult to read or see.
Moe: Oh, I see.
Rohm: I think the petition signed by 50 of the neighbors, most of the neighbors are
aware of it.
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May 1, 2008
Page 1'3 of 40
Newton-Huckabay: That's about Hartford Division is all that -- we have no Candlelight
people here -- oh. Perfect. Thank you.
Moe: Are there any other questions of the applicant?
Marshall: I do not have any.
O'Brien: .Oh. Mr. Chairman, one question. On the fence, is it going to be a six foot
fence?
McDougal: Yes.
O`Brien: Vinyl?
McDougal: Uh-huh.
O'Brien: And what was the consideration befinreen fhat and block?
McDougal: We could do block also. We'd like to go with vinyl, beaause it's a little less
expensive, a little easier to fiix if someone were to run into it or break it. Block tends to
cause us more problems. If it does get -- if spray painted or whatever, vinyl is a little
easier to -- you can clean it off, you don't have to repaint the whole wall.
O'Brien: So, I have to ask staff. Sonya, with that same venue, what is the preference
the city has? Does it matter for noise abatement and things like thaf? .
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner O'Brien, the city -- the UDC
allows a vinyl fence. That's fine. Basically, we allow anything besides chain link with
slats.
McDougal: In that area we don't keep equipment. All the equipment is on the roof. It's
more like floor buffers and some -- when we get shipments they have a little plastic
container, we will store those back fhere and pressure washers, things like that, we just
don't want to keep out in the open, we don't want to keep it in our store either. So, iYs
not -- it's just small equipment for the stores and there is no mechanical units or
anything like that, they are all kept up on the roof and protected by parapet walls.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. That's all I have.
Moe: Thank you.
McDougal: Thank you.
Moe: Okay. Commissioners, any comments? Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 14 of 40
Newton-Huckabay: I'm going to hold my comments for a few minutes.
Moe: Okay. Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: Well, my personal opinion is I think that it would be a welcomed addition to the
community myself. I think convenience stores, like the applicant stated, they serve the
peopie that are aiready on that road and they don't bring in additional traffic and by
having a convenience store fhere, in my opinion, reduces the likelihood of children
traffic going down to Fast Eddy's a mile and a half east on Ustick. I mean it's just -- it's
more of a community neighborhood convenience store and I think that that's why they
put them in, is because they are appreciated ulfimately by the neighborhood as a whole.
And that's my assessment.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm, Mrs. Wilder was referring to the Fast Eddy's
that's going in a mile to the north at Ten Mile and McMillan.
Rohm: Well, no, I'm just saying that convenience stores as a whole are placed there for
the convenience of the community.
Newton-Huckabay: Right. Well, I just wanted to make sure you were -- that you
understood fhat was when she was talking about was the one that is yet to be built.
Rohm: And I-- I don't have any problem with that either.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Moe: Okay. Commissioner Marshall, do you have any comments?
Marshall: I am a little concerned with the proximity of the residences and the time of
delivery, with delivery trucks coming at night and fhings like that, and I-- other fhan that,
I think it's probably a very quiet neighbor. I don't think it's anything that's going to
generate a lot of noise. I don't believe it's going to generate additional traffic. I do worry
about acceptable delivery hours and delivery trucks at night.
Moe: Well, actually, as the applicant stated, basically, most of their deliveries are either
between 9:00 to 5:00 or 7:00 to 5:00 during the day, because deliveries -- they don't like
to work after hours either.
Marshall: Understand.
Moe: Okay.
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 15 of 40
Marshall: That's all the comments I had.
Moe: Okay. Mr. OBrien, any other comments?
O'Brien: I-- I go along with the -- my consfituents here in this. I think it's going to be a
plus, not a negative, and I think for the overall, the people that will be utilizing this
facility, establishment, they are going to appreciate it. I don't think it's -- Maverick, the
ones I have seen, they look like fhey are very well kept up, clean, I have never seen one
that's been run down, at least in this area. So, I think it's a positive, especially for the
location of that. Again, I don't think it's going to add any traffic to it. I don't know what
the time frame is of getting a signal -- a traffic signal in there, maybe Sonya could --
knows something about that, but I don't know what the plan is to how long it's going to
be. That wasn't discussed when we talked with Ada County --
Moe: I don't think ACHD -- I don't know if it's on the --
O'Brien: Okay.
Moe: -- on the program yet or not, so --
Newton-Huckabay: Their comments didn't indicate --
Moe: I didn't see anything either.
O'Brien: Other than fhat, I just don't -- I can't see any one thing that we should prevent
that from happening. I just -- I think it's a positive thing the way fhey are going about it.
Moe: Okay. Well, I guess -- Sonya, could you put the landscape drawing up? I'm kind
of curious about one thing. Basically, my -- quite frankly, I think this project is a good
location for it. My biggest concern is is that, basically, with the pumps turned south, I
wanted to make sure that fhere was going to be landscaping and whatnot. I assume
that is bermed and, then, the trees are up on top of that. So, that should be good
screening to the south. So, I think it will be a good addition to that neighborhood in
there.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I'll go ahead and --
Moe: I need someone to close fhe Public Hearing, too.
Newton-Huckabay: I need to make a comment first.
Moe: Oh. Please do.
Newton-Huckabay: One thing I feel like we are so desperately lacking in north Meridian
is gas stations and convenience stores. But on that note, it would be very hard to -- I
personally don't have a big problem to live close to a convenience store. That's not -- I
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 16 of 40
have much of -- off and on in my life. I don't haye a problem wifh it. But I got to make
the choice of living next to a convenience store and we have 58 neighbors who didn't
get to make that choice whether they knew or not that that was C-G when they moved
in and that's difficult for me to just -- to just say I think it's a great move. I think it's well
positioned on the property and I'm not convinced that it needs to be opened 24 hours a
day, seven days a week. So, I am -- I guess I would like to see us make at least some
concession for fhe operating hours. I think the landscaping is -- as convenience stores
goes, that's pretty dense and, again, the positioning on the property and I as said
before, I'm really concerned that there aren't more neighbors here and that can go
either way. Lots of neighborhoods here generally means lots of people are against it.
Lots of neighbors not hear generally means lots of people are in favor of it and it's very
difficult as a Planning and Zoning Commissioner to know where fhe other folks -- those
folks in Candlelight there to the south and, then, the -- can't remember the name of the
one there to the west, you know, their silence may indicate their full out endorsement of
the property. So, that's where I struggle with fhat, so --
Moe: So, in concession, you speak of changing hours, what would you be proposing for
that? More along the lines of what we have done in the past or what would you be
looking at?
Rohm: Before you respond, Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, may I throw something
in here'?
Newton-Huckabay: Of course.
Rohm: You're -- in the past you have been very diligent about being concerned about
the competition and what is good for A development is good for B and we have been
very consistent in that in other things, like the Walgreens and the -- various stores like
that and -- and I think that it's only fair to do the exact same thing in this condition and
the Fast Eddy's that's halfway between Linder and Meridian Road is open 24/7. So, I
just want to throw that out.
Newton-Huckabay: It is open,-- it is open 24/7?
Rohm: It is open 24/7. Or let's put it this way: The latest that I have ever been it's
always open. If it closes -- and, Sonya, would you have a comment to that? Do you
know what fime they close?
Watters: I do not know.
Rohm: I have been by what I thought was pretty late, but I-- I go to bed pretty early,
too. So, maybe -- maybe it isn't open 24/7. But I always thought that it had been.
Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner Rohm, I don't beiieve that that is open 24/7.
Rohm: You don't?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 17 of 40
Newton-Huckabay: No. Because I know that when -- when a member of my family
goes to work at the 2:00 or 3:00 o'clock in the morning hour, the only_ -- the closest
aonvenience store that he can find is out by the freeway.
Rohm: Really?
Newton-Huckabay: So, as far as the hour's proposal, I'd like maybe similar -- same
hours, same concession that we have made for the other gas stations in the area or the
Albertson's. -
Moe: Well, I do believe we are at 7:00 to 11:00 are we not?
Newton-Huckabay: Oh, goodness 7:00 o'clock is not early enough. I guess I would
want it to close by 1:00 o'clock in the morning, would be -- but I would -- I don't want to
be inconsistent. I don't -- like Commissioner Rohm said, I am always concerned about
giving -- be fair with giving an unfair advantage to some other business with hours.
That's where you get into trouble by giving set hours.
Moe: Well, based on what --
Newton-Huckabay: Or suggesting set hours.
Moe: Based on what Commissioner Rohm stated, would the -- if we get this far to a
motion, that the time limits would be the same as the Fast Eddy's down the street,
although I'm not sure what that is right now. .
O'Brien: I think that 6:00 a.m. would be the normal. I can't see it later.
Rohm: I think just to state that it be granted equal to the convenience store -- the Fast
Eddy's. Can we do that?
Moe: I don't see why not.
Rohm: Okay.
Moe: And, then, between, you know, and City Council --
Newton-Huckabay: This is a CUP.
Rohm: We are going to -- we are going to do it.
Moe: Oh, I'm sorry. This is a CUP. That's right. Well, then, that's what we are going to
do.
Rohm: All right. Mr. Chairman?
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 18 of 40
McDougal: Could I make a comment?
Newton-Huckabay: From the audience --
Rohm: Well, we haven't closed yet, so --
Moe: Yeah. Come forward.
McDougal:, Like said earlier, one of the things that we look at when we are doing these
and we are here as a convenience and we are not going to stay open unless there is
people there shopping us. We don't -- you know, we don't want to pay the employees
unless there is a reason for us to be open. And we typically like to leave it up to the
public. You know, if people want us to be open, we stay open. If they don't want us,
then, we close. I recognize fhe concern there, but we also want to be -- there is all the
other people there that might want to shop and if they want to shop we want to be open
to service them. We don't want people having to drive to the freeway to get their candy
bar or whatever it might be. That's fhe only concern I have. Like I said, we have -- we
run a convenience -- a chain of 185 and we do this with all of them, we open them up
24 hours to see and if -- we test them and there is five that have not had a need
sufficient to keep it open 24 hours. If's generally -- like I said, the people are coming
within a half mile. The noise -- the noise is going to be there, because fhe traffic's there.
It doesn't change the traffic patterns. People are driving by regardless of whether we
are open or not. It's just whether they might be stopping in our station and -- when they
are going, you know, ten, 15 miles an hour, slowing down, driving into the station
around. They are not creating a lot of noise. It's low levels of -- low levels of noise. So,
we would like -- we would like to keep it open 24 hours and just see how it works and if
it -- if it warrants to be closed, we'd go ahead and do fhat. But, like I said, we want to let
the public decide what they want and what they need. Thank you.
Moe: Thank you.
Rohm; Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: I move that we close the Public Hearing on CUP 08-009.
O'Brien: Second.
Moe: IYs been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on CUP 08-009. All
fhose in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 19 of 40
Moe: Yes, Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: At this time I'd like to make a motion, after considering all staff, applicant, and
public testimony, I move to a,pprove file number CUP 08-009, as presented in the staff
report for the hearing date of May 1 st, 2008, with the following modifications: That the
hours of operation be limited to those same hours as currently -- to competition in the
area. I further move to direct staff to prepare an appropriate fiindings document to be
considered at the next Planning and Zoning Commission meefing of May 15th, 2008.
End of motion.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It has been moved and seconded to approve on to City Council -- excuse me. To
approve GUP 08-009, with the aforementioned changes. All fhose in favor say aye.
Opposed?
O'Brien: Aye.
Moe: Okay. That motion carries with one dissent. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRPED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY.
Newton-Huckabay: Oh. Mr. Chair? We didn't get the vinyl fence change in there.
Moe: It was noted --
Marshall: It was proposed by staff.
Newton-Huckabay: Oh. Okay.
Baird: Mr. Chair, it's been agreed to on the record, so you`re in there and it will be in the
findings.
Newton-Huckabay: Thanks, Mr. Baird.
Baird': Mr. Chair? Mr. Chair? We need to discourage comments that aren't pertinent to
anything that -- you don't have an open hearing right now, so I just wanted to caution
you and the Commission.
Item 6: Public Hearing: CUP 08-007 Request for Conditionai Use Permit for a
drive-thru pharmacy in the C-G zoning district for Fred Meyer Pharmacy
by Fred Meyer Stores, Inc. - NEC of N. Locust Grove Road and E.
Fairview Avenue:
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Fage 20 of 40
Moe: Okay. At this time I'd like to open the Public Hearing for CUP 08-007 for Fred
Meyer pharmacy and ask the staff to give their report.
Watters: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The application
before you is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a drive-thru pharmacy for Fred
Meyer. The site is located at 1850 East Fairview Avenue on the northeast corner of
Fairview and Locust Grove. On the south side of the east end of the existing Fred
Meyer building. To the north of the site is an existing storage unit facility, zoned C-G.
To the east are restaurants, commercial uses, zoned C-G. To the south across
Fairview are commercial uses, zoned C-G. And to the west, across Locust Grove, are
commercial uses, zoned C-G. And residential uses zoned R-6 in Ada County. The
applicant submitted a site plan showing the proposed location of the drive-thru in
relation to the layout of the rest of the site. The Unified Development Code requires
conditional use approval if a drive-thru is proposed within 300 feet of another drive-thru
establishment, an existing residence or residential district. There are no existing
residences or a residential district that lie within 300 feet of the proposed drive-thru, but
there are two drive-thrus, one for McDonald's and one for Subway that are within 300
feet of fhe proposed drive-thru. Staff has reviewed the site plan and does not believe
that traffic movement and stacking for the existing and proposed drive-thrus will
interfere with each other. Access to the Fred Meyer site is provided from east Fairview
Avenue and North Locust Grove. No new access points are proposed with this
application. This is a detail of the proposed drive-thru. The applicant proposes to
remove 14 of fihe existing 814 parking spaces for Fred Meyer and construct a drive-thru
lane with a pneumatic tube for the pharmacy. Staff has no objection to the removal of
parking spaces, as the remaining number far exceed that required by the UDC.
However, staff is concerned about the amount of stacking available for the proposed
pharmacy drive-thru. Currently where the tube is proposed to be located, approximately
right in there, fhere is only one room for -- excuse me. There is only room for one
additional car behind the car at the tube. To insure that the adjacent drive aisle is not
blocked during busy time, staff recommends that the tube be relocated further to the
west to allow room for a total of three cars to stack, including the one at the tube. Or
approximately 60 feet, without hanging out into the drive aisle and blocking traffic. The
canopy should also be extended accordingly to cover at least fhe car at the tube.
Additionally, staff is concerned about the ability of drivers exiting the drive-thru and
merging into the through lane, to be flexible enough to look behind them to the east to
check for oncoming traffic. As they designed it, the cars would enter the drive-thru here
and come out right here. This is the drive aisle. Because of the angle of the exit lane in
relation to the adjacent drive aisle, it will be difficult for most motorists to safely check for
oncoming cars. Staff recommends that the exit of the drive-thru be redesigned to be
close to a 90 degree intersection with the adjacent drive aisle. The hours of operation
for the drive-thru will that of the pharmacy, which is Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to
9:00 p.m. Saturday 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. And Sunday 10:00 a.m: to 6:00 p.m.
Additional landscaping for the site was not required with this application. The applicant
submitted elevations of the proposed canopy to be constructed over the drive-thru. And
it's shown here at the bottom. And the columns to support the canopy are proposed to
be round concrete columns that will be painted per the elevations. The facade of the
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 21 of 40
pharmacy drive-thru will be EFIS, exterior insulated finish system, which will connect to
fihe existing concrete tilt up panels and painted to match the adjacent exterior paint
theme. Staff has no objections of the elevations proposed by the applicant, as they
compliment the existing building and comply with the maximum building height and size
requirements of the C-G district. A letter of testimony was received on this application
from Keith Botkin. Staff is recommending approval of the requested Conditional Use
Permit as stated in the staff report, subject to the conditions listed in Exhibit B. Staff will
stand for any questions the Commission may have at this time.
Moe: Any questions, Commissioners?
OBrien: I have none.
Moe: Okay.
Marshall: Not at this time.
Moe: Would the applicant like to come forward, please.
Fagliano: Hi. My name is Rob Fagliano. I'm with the architecture firm that is
representing Fred Meyer. Don Forest is also here from Fred Meyer to present this.
Moe: Could I get an address also, please.
Fagliano: Our business -- Mulvanny G2 Architecture's business address is 601
Southwest 2nd Avenue, Portland, Oregon. 97204.
Moe: Thank you.
Fagliano: I believe. Sonya did a great job presenfing what we are proposing in this -- in
this CUP. Primarily this is a-- a convenience -- convenience item that Fred Meyer
would like to provide for the community. It also helps with competing against other --
other pharmacies that provide a drive-thru option for their customers. For the most part,
fihe concerns that Sonya had mentioned in the -- in the conditions for stacking lanes, the
owner -- we have -- we have no problem with lengthening the stall length there. We
have approximately 55 feet, so adding another -- shifting fhat over five feet isn't going to
be a deal breaker to add the length. I do have a quick question about that length, if it
has to be the straight length of 60 feet or if part of the car coming in can be angled a
little bit, if the entire 60 feet needs to be all in fhe -- in the straight length, because when
you're coming in part of it would be --
Watters: Just as long as it isn't hanging out into the drive aisle.
McDougal: Sure. Okay. The other item is the angle of somebody coming out. A lot of
time in designing these we will have fhe same enfirance angle -- same arch on the
entrance as we do on the exit and in -- and in addressing a comment that Sonya had
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 22 of 40
before, we -- we had modified the exit to be a sharper or a smaller radius to actually
have the cars make a sharper turn and angle toward the traffic to be able to see coming
out. There is proposed some signage for them to have to yield to oncoming traffic. So,
what we have proposed -- we have tried to address that -- that issue with the planning
department and our intent on that was to be able to maintain fhe existing pedestrian
connecfion from entry to entry, where there is an existing sidewalk that we are trying to
just maintain. So, from our point of view that is -- that is actually addressing the exit of
customers leaving the pharmacy pneumatic tube and I guess I would like to propose
that what we have -- what we have done has actually addressed that issue and that's
what we have right now. So, other than that -- I mean the things that we -- that we have
presented here are amenable to fhe planning -- planning department and to. the owner. I
think Don Forest wanted to address some of the other items regarding the staff report
about the sheriff s comments.
Forest: Good evening. Don Forest on behalf of Fred Meyer. Real estate manager.
Address is 3800 Southeast 22nd Avenue, Portland, Oregon. 97202. The -- as Rob
stated, I think we are generally, you know, in conform -- or agreement with the
conditions that were imposed on the staff report, with the exception of -- I believe it's
under section four, paragraph 4.1 and 4.2. Specifically 4.2. What's been requested
there through the police department is fhat schedule two and schedule three drugs not
be allowed to be dispensed through the pneumatic tube or through the drive-up
pharmacy fhere. The logic being that somehow if you cause fhose individuals to go
face to face with fhe pharmacist that show how they could deter fraud for those type of
drugs -- pharmaceutical controlled substances. When we heard that, it kind of gave us
some concern. We immediately looked to see if that stand was something that's being
applied anywhere else. We have not been able to locate any pharmacy where that
standard -- that these type of pharmaceuticals cannot be dispensed through a drive-
fhru. That would be in Meridian, Boise, or anywhere in fhe state. Looking at the State
Code, which is under the Idaho State Board of Pharmacy rules, recenfly updated April
of '08, specifically Section 464, paragraph two, et al., indicates fhat these type of drugs
or any type of pharmaceutical must be dispensed with positive identification. I think the
positive idenfification is coming in the form of -- what you would typically understand to
be a photo -- a current photo ID or being personally known to the pharmacist or
technician dispensing the drugs. I think it's reasonable for us to conclude that that
positive ID can be made via the drive-up system with a high quality monitor system,
which we intend to install. A state of fhe art system. LCD. Adequate lighting at all
times, et cetera. So, given that there is no standard, that we are designing it to conform
to the Idaho State Board of Pharmacy rules, while we do have -- you know, I understand
the concern about pharmaceuticals being dispensed and the need to deter fraud and so
forth, I don't believe requiring that those need to come in the store will achieve that goal.
Condition 4.1 has requested that we install a high quality digital video recording system
and high quality monitors of the drive-up system. I believe we can agree to that. We
will have high quality monitors, et cetera. We weren't planning to have a digital
recording system, but we will do that also. Our intention would be to keep a record for
60 days and I think fhat's -- you know, far exceeds any standard that's out there that I'm
aware of. So, with that I would just request that the conditional use be granted, with the
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 23 of 40
exclusion of that Section 4.2 requiring that the pharmaceuticals schedules two and three
type controls substance not be allowed to be dispensed through the drive-up. Thank
you.
Moe: Any questions? One thing I am kind of curious about as far as what's our
distance between fhe building and where the tube -- where the medications is going to
come out of these tubes out here. You lose that face to face and I'm sure that's what
the police department is most concerned about is -- is that distance apart -- I realize
you're saying you're going to have IDs and everything else, but, you know, a lot of
problem IDs and I'm assuming that that's what the police department is most concerned
about. ~
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Yes.
Newton-Huckabay: Do we have the same requirement on a Walgreen's or any other
pharmacy drive-thru?
Moe: No. But on those they are right at the builtling, though, are they not?
Forest: If I may respond? This pharmacy is attached to the building. It is not a
separate remote pharmacy, such as Walgreen's or the others. You know, they are
attached to the building.
Rohm: So, the video site both from the inside and fhe out, they can see the occupants
of the cars from -- from the dispensing side --
Forest: Yes.
Rohm: -- as well as the other way.
Forest: Yes.
Rohm: Okay.
Watters: Excuse me. If I could interject into that. I don't believe there is a window
proposed here. I believe that's what you're getting at. Most of the Walgreen's, I believe
have windows you pull up there, they have a person right there --
Moe: That's what I --
Watters: -- looking at you. This site is not proposing a window; it's simply a tube
coming out of fihe pharmacy.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 24 of 40
Forest: I believe at fhe Walgreen's they have both -- a lot of Walgreen's will have both,
the tube, pneumatic tube, and a window. I fhink their hope is that people dropping off
pharmaceutical prescriptions will drop those off using the drive-up tube and people
picking up will use fhese, will use the window. Most of the time, our optimum situation
for us is to have the face-to-face interaction, just because it's like that for -- for customer
relations. In this locafiion it's not feasible -- feasible for us, because of fihe location of the
pharmacy internally and fhe direction the vehicles need to flow fhrough the parking lot.
If you take a vehicle and you flow it where the driver's side window would be against the
building side, you know that vehicle would have to cross the lane to get across there
and fhat creates somewhat of a pedestrian-vehicle conflict. And that's part of the
reason -- fhe other reason the internal location of the pharmacy here did not lend itself
to a cut-through drive-up pharmacy, so --
Marshall: Chairman Moe?
Forest: Again, in looking at the code, there was no requirement or standard there that's
in place that we could locate that would rationalize fhis or any empirical data out there
that doing so would deter any type of fraud, so -=
Moe: Mr. Marshall.
Marshall: I also had a question. I-- I'm curious as to whether or not a drive-up on this
site is even feasible, over here why this was selected, as opposed to over here where
the traffic could be routed around, rather than funneled back into where the pedestrians
are. ~
Forest: I don't know the particulars on that. I can tell you, you know, on the big picture
the pharmacy is not -- the drive-thru pharmacy does not increase business for us with
our pharmacy. It comes as a result of a two fold -- one, competitors offering this.
Second, that it is a customer convenience. Focus groups, most everything, have told us
that they'd like to see it as a convenience, but that does not increase the pharmaay
business. So, when we put them in stores, it's strictly -- you know, it's a customer -- it's
not a return on investment item for us, it's an item that costs so much, but it's a good
customer -- customer service. So, I think in placing those we want them to be as
prominent visually to the customer as possible, since it's more or less a-- a customer
convenience. If you put it on the side of the building, I think you can of take away from
that, is my guess. We don't have any drive-ups, you know, on the side of a building at
this time.
Marshall: My concern being safety in that stacking -- if it stacks out into the drive lane,
even with three cars you're blocking the fire lane. You're blocking EMS and police. As
traffic is entering out you're funneling it right back to where everybody's entering fihe
store.
Forest: The traffic thaf's made to go fihe pharmacy is four to six vehicles per hour.
That's our busiest drive-up pharmacies and we don't know if this one will match -- get
Meritlian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 25 of 40
that high. But if you space that out, four to six vehicles per hour, the chance of having
stacking is very -- very low. We know, we are cognizant of the concern and thaYs why
we are willing to agree to the, you know, 90 degree angle exiting, stacking for the three
vehicles at a time and so forth, which given the projection of, you know, four to six at the
most per hour, I think thaYs reasonable to assume that that shouldn't be a safety issue.
Moe: Mr.OBrien.
O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, I concur. I was going to bring that up myself about fhe location
of that and I have shopped that area quite a few times and it's busy enough coming in
from the main exit -- or entrance on the side -- could you get the overhead -- the
previous, please. Coming in through here is a-- is a major thoroughfare, conduit, to go
into the store. There is disabled parking here. I don't know if you're disrupting -- move
any of the disabled parking from that area or not. I'm not sure. I think there was at least
two there, if not three. But I only see finro now. But, again, my thoughts were, gee, it
just seems like it makes more sense, because there is not very much traffic -- I have
never seen this parking lot here utilized very much at all. Very few cars. Maybe
employee -- I'm not sure. But you still would be able to have the signage available to be
able to utilize this area and just eliminate that issue, fhe probiem or concern. But
visually to me it just makes -- it doesn't make a lot of sense at that location; it just takes
away a lot.
Forest: I can't speak as to exactly why the location was chosen on this store, other fihan
to picture that kind of thing already. This is fhe first that anybody -- staff or anybody
else has brought up that different location on the site for this on the building would be --
would be better. If that were the decision of the Commissioners here, I would take that
back to our group and determine if that's -- if that's feasible. My gut reaction that it
would not be, because there, again, it's not a return on investment item, it doesn't pay
for itself, and the more you take it away from fhe visuality of what it offers, the less it
becomes viable for us to do it. So, that's speculation at this time.
O'Brien: Thank you.
Moe: Any other questions?
Forest: Bob may have some more about the location.
Fagliano: I just -- I wanted to interject a little bit. A lot of fiimes in these, typically we
have had a stacking lane enough for two cars and that hasn't interfered with -- with
traffic in and around the store in the interior parking area. The four to six cars per hour,
there is more cars traveling in around like some of the ofher drive-thrus in the area
there. So, this drive-thru is not an atypical type of drive-thru. I mean some people are
calling in, I have a bunch of kids, you know, some people will call it in and they are
going, hey, I want to -- we are all sick, we all want to get in the car, but we don't want to
go in today. So, you're calling up and, then, you say is it going to be ready by, you
know, 7:00 o'clock. Great. So, you go in and take care of it and, then, go back home
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 26 of 40
and put everybody to bed. As far as where it's located, like Don was saying, a lot of
times just for visuality of just the front of the store and the signage, to be able to just
mark out, hey, this is here for convenience. So, again, it's just to provide the optimum
convenience for it. And the other back road around there, the lesser traveled road than,
obviously, F.airview and the other ones. And Locust, so --
O'Brien: Say that again.
Fagliano: That -- the loop around that's going ~ around behind the store, is lesser
traveled than Fairview Avenue and North Locust Grove. So, that's why we were trying
to aim it closer toward North Fairview -- East Fairview. Sorry.
O'Brien: Thank you.
Forest: Maybe just offer one more comment about the safety issues here. This would
be, you know, upwards of 40 drive-thrus that Fred Meyer has in stores throughout
Idaho, Oregon, Washington and Alaska. Typically, fhat drive-thru we put it -- it's right in
the center between the two entrances. On the surface people are going to think like
that offers the most potential conflict for vehicle-pedestrian traffic and so forth. I can tell
you that to date in our multiple -- you know, I think we have had drive-thrus now for
about ten years, going back -- we have no incidents of a pedestrian-vehicular incident of
injury or claims or anything else. So, while it's a-- on the surface it may give somebody
concern, I think the empirical data, you know, kind of proves that it's safe there also.
Moe: Thank you.
Marshall: You say you have how many others?
Forest: I think we have almost 40, but there are some other ones that we are planning
that would bring us up over 40.
Marshall: But this is the only one -- this kind, the others -- all the others --
Forest: No, we have --
Marshall: -- have a drive-up window and --
Forest: No. We have I think two others now that have pneumatic tubes and the others
are windows. And we are planning some other pneumatic tubes. The tube, like I said,
it's not optimum for us, you know, it's an additional cost, you're not going to be face to
face, it's usually a result of logistics of where the pharmacy is internally to the traffic
patterns outside the building and so forth.
O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, real quick, sir, while you're there. Four to six vehicles an hour, I
don't know how they could justify putting another island out there with a tube in there
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 27 of 40
and not just a drive up to the window. That doesn't compute to me. Four to six cars an
hour isn't very much, so why do you need to have an island with another access point?
Forest: Maybe -- like I said, there is not a second island.
O'Brien: There is not -- there is not a-- is this two lane or only one entrance?
Forest: ThaYs one. It's one lane, yes.
OBrien: Oh. Okay. I thought maybe there was a reason for this overhang here, that
cars would stop there as we11.
Forest: No. It's a single lane vehicle. It can only accommodate one vehicle at a time.
O'Brien: Okay. My misunderstanding.
Moe: Okay. Thank you.
Forest: Thank you.
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, any comments?
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I have no real significant issue with the -- with the drive-
thru. I think the location is fine. I do -- would want to make sure that the exit is a little bit
more toward a 90 degree angle, as Sonya stated, so it will be a little easier to get out of
there. The 4.2, I just don't know that I would agree with getting into that type of
monitoring. Where did they pull that requirement from? I mean it just doesn't really -- I
don't know if it would hold up in -- in court, I don't know if iYs a precedent, maybe the
attorney could state -- say. I-- it seems like an odd -- very odd condition to me.
Moe: Well, I think that the biggest concern the police department has is -- is that you
don't have a drive-up window, so, you know, you're looking through monitors -- _
Newton-Huckabay: But you have the same problem with a bank, for crying out loud. I
mean --
Baird: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, and Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, I
could add to that. Because this is a conditional use, there is no worry about whether it
would hold up in court. This would be the condition under whiah you grant them
permission to have the drive-fhru. On the other hand, the Board of Pharmacy has their
requirements; every pharmacist in fhe state is worried about keeping their license and
playing by the rules, that's the other fhing you might want to consider. You do have a
high quality video system. It's just a recommendation from the police and your job is to
weigh fhe factors and decide what conditions you want to impose in granting this --
granting or denying the conditional use.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 28 of 40
Newton-Huckabay: I would be in support of granting fhe applicant's request to remove
that requirement, because, as Mr. Baird said, I don't think that there is a pharmacist in
the state who wants to lose his license with somefhing like that. So, I fhink that they
have an interest to police that amongst themselves.
Moe: Okay.
Baird: And, Mr. Chair and Members of the Commission, I might add that if there is an
issue arises about the identification, you can bet that the pharmacist is going to say, I'm
sorry, you will have to come in or, you know, some other thing. I think where you're
leading is that this can police itself.
Moe: Okay.
Marshall: Chairman Moe, in support there, I know there are a number of very common
drugs that fall under fhose categories that seem fairly benign, but yet fall into those
categories that people take on a monthly basis. So, it would be beneficial for them to be
able to just call it in and pick it up. As long as the pharmacist is worried about keeping a
license, I don't see a problem.
Moe: Okay. Thank you very much. I just want to kind of weigh in on this thing. I guess
design-wise I probably would have liked to have seen this thing on the east side of the
building, but iYs not. I.understand why it is on the front. I really do not have any traffic
concerns whatsoever. I think with Sonya having the requirement of moving that down,
you're going to stack three cars in there, I think you're going to be fine. And if you're
only doing, you know, the four or so per hour, I don't think that's going to be a problem
either. You know, I have no problem with fihis project at all. I guess 4.2, I have the
concern, but as far as I'm concerned, they have already made comment that they will
approve on 4.1 and so, therefore, I would be in favor of this project and deleting 4.2 as
well. Mr.OBrien.
O'Brien: Yeah. Mr. Chairman. I have a question for -- I forget the first person's name.
We haven't closed the Public Hearing; right?
Moe: No, we have not.
O'Brien: I have a question for you, sir.
Fagliano: Yes.
O'Brien: Since fhis area here was designated disabled parking, are you losing any?
Fagliano: ADA stalls?
O'Brien: Are you losing any disabled stalls?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 29 of 40
Fagliano: No. No, we are not. We are maintaining the required -- required counts and
we are -- I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Sonya, I think there are approximately 357 or
358 stalls required for the store and we are well above that.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Thanks.
Moe: Any other questions? All right. Mr. Rohm, you look like you're ready.
Rohm: I don't have any comments. I think everything has been well stated and I
support Commissioner Newton-Huckabay's posifion on the 4.2 completely. So, I think
that should be sfiricken and that's the end of my comments.
Moe: Great. Well, then --
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair?
Moe: Yes, ma'am.
Newton-Huckabay: I recommend we close the Public Hearing on CUP 08-007.
Marshall: Second.
Moe: It has been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on CUP 08-007. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Newton-Huckabay: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
approve file number CUP 08-007, as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of
May 1, 2008, with the following modifications to the conditions of approval: That
condition 4.2 from the police department will be stricken from the requirements and I
further direct staff to prepare an appropriate findings document to be considered at the
next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing on May 15th, 2008. End of motion.
Rohm: Second.
Moe: It has been moved and seconded to approve CUP 08-007, with the modifications
as noted. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. Thank you very
much.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Public Hearing: CUP 08-006 Request for Conditional Use Permit to
operate a drinking establishment in an existing O-T zoning district for
Corkscrews by Marla Smith - 729 Main Street:
Mericlian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 30 of 40
Moe: I'd like to open the Public Hearing for CUP 08-006, for Corkscrews and ask the
staff to open it up.
Watters: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The application
before you is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for the operation of a drinking
establishment in the OT zoning district. The site is located at 729 Main Street on the
southwest corner of Idaho and Main Street in the basement of the Heritage building, as
you can see on the vicinity map there. The applicant is proposing to serve and sell fine
wines, which requires conditional use approval as a drinking establishment in the Old
Town district. This is an aerial -- oops, that's not an aerial. That's an aerial view of the
property. To the north, east, and west of the site are commercial businesses zoned OT
and to the west is a parking lot and City Hall zoned OT. This is a copy of -- or a picture
of the building. I fhink their entrance is right over here: It's in the basement of this
building. The applicant submitted a site plan with this application that shows the
existing building where this business is proposed to be located in the basement and the
existing trees along the adjacent street. A dirt parking area is shown on the west side of
fhe building that is not associated with this site. Because the existing building
encompasses almost all of the property, off-street parking is not feasible and is not
provided. Further, because this is an exisfing building in OId Town and because no
exterior modifications to the building are proposed, no off-street parking is required and
the downtown Meridian design guidelines are not applicable to this site. The applicant
states that she does not -- or does have a verbal agreement with the property owner to
the west to use the unimproved dirt lot located at the rear -- west of the building for off-
street parking. Further, there is also on-street parking along Main Street and Idaho
Avenue. The applicant also states there is additional on-street parking across the street
in front of Idaho Independent Bank and 33 stalls are available in the public parking lot
located behind the Meridian Cycle Shop a block away off the southeast corner of Pine
and Main. To alleviate some of the parking concerns, the applicant is proposing
staggered business hours to address the lack of off-street parking for the site.
Proposed hours of operation are as follows: Monday through Thursday, 1:00 p.m. to
10:00 p.m. Friday through Saturday, 1:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. And closed or used for
private parties on Sunday. Staff is supportive of these hours and is recommending that
the business be limited to the hours stated. Letters of tesfimony have been received
from Howard Foley on behalf of Meridian Redevelopment Venture and Hunter
Investments, Inc. Staff is recommending approval of the requested Conditional Use
Permit as stated in the staff report, subject to conditions listed in Exhibit B. Staff will
stand for any questions the Commission may have at this time.
Moe: Any quesfions of staff?
Newton-Huckabay: I have none.
Rohm: No quesfions.
O'Brien: I have one question.
Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 31 of 40
Moe: Yes, Mr. O'Brien.
OBrien: Sonya, a quesfiion when I was reading the staff report that fhe church is within
300 feet and it's now vacant. So, what happens if the churah comes back in and
occupies that as a church and it's within 300 feet of this establishment? What happens?
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner O'Brien, if the church comes
in after the fact, then, they can do that. I# -- this use is based on the current uses within
300 feet of the property at the time of application.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you. Just wanted to clarify it.
Mae: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Straight: Good evening. I am Marie Straight. My current address is 2214 Kenmere
Drive, Meridian, Idaho. 83646. Okay. What we are trying to do here is -- as staff has
said, that we are opening a wine and beer establishment and we would -- what we are
asking is your permission to do this. We have -- we are making no -- we are not
changing anything about the outside of the building or anything else. The basement
has been used in the past for a restaurant and that worked well. What we are providing
is an establishment that is like a quiet bar. We will serve wine by the glass or by the
bottle or retail. And we will serve beer. So, we are seeking a bear and wine license at
this fiime. We have a unique atmosphere as it's a quiet bar, we have a meeting room
that can be a small meeting room. We have quite a few people already interested in
that and we are going to use the red hat lad~ies and I think this will go very well. I think
wifh what Meridian is trying to do with their development downtown that we will be a
plus, because it will create people walking around. So far we have had nobody
opposed. We had our neighborhood meeting and nobody turned up. Everybody that
we talked to is for this establishment. And we just look forward to giving great customer
service and providing a quiet place where you can meet with a friend and have a wine
or a beer.
Moe: As far as the staff comments and whatnot, any objections to the report or are you
in favor of the staff report?
Straight: I'm in favor of the~staff report.
Moe: Okay.
Straight: Although I do have one change. Is the staggered hours -- those should be
Tuesday through Thursday, 2:00 to 11:00. And, then, Friday and Saturday, 2:00 to
11:00. And we will -- that would make it closed Sunday and Monday.
Moe: Okay. Any questions?
Newton-Huckabay: I have -- I have one comment, Mr. Chair.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 32 of 40
Moe: Okay.
Newton-Huckabay: I would just ask staff and the applicant if we really feel like it's
necessary to put hours of operation into the CUP. I don't think that that's necessary. I,
myself, I don't know what the -- what everyone else would think, but I think this is
awesome. I fhink ifs a great addition to downtown Meridian and I think it's nice -- there
are not very many places like this around and I think it does fit in with what they are
trying to do downtown. And I would -- I would just think it would be better to leave those
hours of operafiion as the gentleman from Maverick wanted to, the public in general
drinking establishment hours.
Straight: Our concern on the hours is what we were trying to show is that they would be
staggered hours due to the downtown parking in Meridian, you know, that's the first
question that comes up, so we thought by showing and announcing -- you know, going
fhrough our hours, that we would show that we would have a staggered business hour.
Most of the businesses around there are 8:00 to 5:00 and we would be 2:00 until 11:00.
So, I don't feel that we would impact the parking that -- you know.
Newton-Huckabay: Well, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from running those hours, I
just am not sure that I want to see them put in the CUP and, then, say you find need to
have to change them, then, you have to get your CUP modified and that type of thing.
That's my. only -- that's my concern, because those are somewhat limited hours and I
think it would give you more flexibility as a business if we didn't feel it was totally
necessary to have them in there. You certainly could be open whatever hours -- 2:00 to
11:00. I'll end my comments.
Moe: Any questions of the applicant?
O'Brien: I think it's great.
Rohm: I do, too.
Moe: I guess there is no more questions for you.
Straight: Great. And that's the response we wanted. Thank you.
Moe: Well, it sounded to me like everybody said it was going to be great, so I guess
can I get some motions, then.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair'?
Moe: Or if there is any other comments?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 33 of 40
Newton-Huckabay: I'd just like to ask staff if there was a real driving force beyond the
applicant offering up those hours, to putting fhose hours of operation in there. In the
Conditional Use Permit.
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, Commissioners, the UDC
does menfion fihat as an alternate to requirement for on-street parking, you know,
providing different hours than the businesses are normally open, so fhat there isn't such
congestion down there.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Watters: Especially downtown.
Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh.
Watters: But where they aren't providing any off-street parking, there isn't any available
on the site, then, fhey -- they are proposing that as just an alternative means to try to
comply with that requirement.
Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh.
Rohm: Maybe we could --
Watters: You do have the power to remove that condition if you would like to.
Newton-Huckabay: I just -- yeah. I just don't want to put any barriers of businesses
being successful in downtown Meridian.
Rohm: I fhirrk that, typically, this type of business is not going to draw customers before
-- before noon for sure. Or many customers anyway. Maybe me. But --
Newton-Huckabay: That was on the record.
Rohm: So, in -- I just concur wifh Commissioner Newton-Huckabay that -- to not limit
the hours would be appropriate.
Newton-Huckabay: Okay.
Marshall: I-- I had a question for Sonya. Was that -- what parking requirements are
there in Old Town for them? I didn't realize that the Old Town zone required them to
have that parking. There is a requirement there that we are trying to alleviate with
staggered hours?
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner Marshall, the Old Town
Di.strict does -- the traditional neighborhood districts do require one space per 500 gross
square feet of floor area. However, the Old Town District -- the OT District, does not
Meridian Planning & Zooing
May 1, 2008
Page 34 of 40
require off-street parking. If they -- as this appliaant -- because they are not proposing
any exterior modifications or new construction, they are not required to meet the
downtown Meridian design guidelines, which has a parking requirement. So, for their
particular type of use and what they have proposed, they are not required to have off-
street parking. But, obviously, people have to park, unless they are walking, so, you
know, we have to consider that.
Marshall: Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate that. My thoughts being that by
not requiring the hours that would give them more flexibility to offer to a lunch crowd, if
one were to develop, or to an even later evening crowd, if that were to develop. I don't
believe fhat I have to second sentiments that have already been stated that you're going
to have a large crowd earlier in the morning. That's all I had.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair'?
Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: I recommend we close tHe Public Hearing on CUP 08-006.
O'Brien: Second.
Moe: IYs been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on CUP 08-006.
All in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Newton-Huckabay: Sonya, could -- would you -- Mr. Chair. Sonya, would you tell me
what section that requirement is in.
Watters: Which requirement?
Newton-Huckabay: The hours of operation.
Watters: Oh, staff report you mean, the conditions of approval?
Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh. Yes. Yes. Thank you.
Watters: Just a moment. It's 1.8.
Newton-Huckabay: 1.8. Okay. After considering all staff, applicant, and public
testimony, I move to approve file number CUP 08-006, as presented in the staff report
for the hearing date of May 1, 2008, with the following modification to the conditions of
approval. That condition of approval 1.8, Corkscrews' hours of operations are as
follows: Monday through Thursday, 1:00 to 10:00. Friday to Saturday, 1:00 to 11:00.
And Sunday closed or use for private parties, be stricken from the requirements. I
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 35 of 40
further move to direct staff to prepare appropriate findings document to be considered at
fhe next Planning and Zoning Commission hearing, dated May 15th, 2008.
O'Brien: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 08-006, for Corkscrews as
modified. All fhose in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries. '
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Public Hearing: ZOA 08-001 Request for a Zoning Ordinance / Unified
Development Code (UDC) Text Amendment to modify, clean up and add
specific sections to the UDC (see application for details of all sections
proposed for amendments) for Unified Development Code Text
Amendment #4 by the City of Meridian Planning Department:
Moe: I would like to open the Public Hearing for ZOA 08-001 and start with the staff
report.
Watters: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The Planning
Department is requesting a zoning ordinance amendment to amend the Unified
Development Code. Staff has been tracking additional specific sections of the UDC that
should be amended for the UDC to function efficiently. Some of these sections
proposed for amendment include parking standards, signs, hours of operation in the L-
O and C-N zoning districts. Wireless communicafion facilities and provisions for UDC
violations. Additionally, staff is recommending two new commercial zoning districts,
mixed employment and high density employment, to implement new land use
designations recommended in the Ten Mile interchange specific area plan. In
summary, the changes proposed in the staff report represent changes the planning staff
believes will make fihe implementation and use of the UDC more understandable and
enforceable. Since the application was submitted, the Planning Department has
discovered two more changes that should be made to the UDC. First, studios should be
relocated from its current location within the definition of private education institutions, to
be located in the definition of arts, entertainment, and recreation facilities. Karate and
yoga have also been added as examples to that arts, entertainment and recreation
facilities definition. See Section 11-1A-1. Second, to be consistent with the rest of fhe
secfiion regarding term of class, Section 11-66-7AC should be amended by referencing
a time extension from the date of the city engineer's signature, not the recordation date.
Staff recommends approval of fhe subject zoning ordinance amendment application
with fihe changes to the UDC listed in Section 8 of the staff report. Staff will stand for
any questions you may have.
Moe: I was waiting for that. Are there any questions of staff?
OBrien: I have a question, Mr. Chairman, of Sonya.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 36 of 40
Moe: Mr.O'Brien.
O'Brien: I# has to do with the amateur radio antenna height requirement. It looked like it
was at 35 feet and it was -- I don't know what's changed, if it was changed at all. I`m
trying to find out where I-- where I read that.
M a rs h a I I: 4-3-43. 11.4-3-43 .
OBrien: Yes.
Marshall: Yeah.
O'Brien: Did you get that?
Marshalt: Want me to restate that?
O'Brien: 11-4-3-43 is -- let me see that. Yeah. It says amateur radio antenna standards
pursuant to the FCC, et cetera, et cetera, has been crossed out and I don't know what
that means by crossing that out, if that's been changed, deleted, or otherwise.
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner O'Brien, if you're referring to
strike out --
OBrien: Yes.
Watters: -- on 1-C, that's what was there previously and that's proposed to be removed.
O'Brieri: And the next page on 11-4-3-43, in the middle of the page there where it says
antennas with a height in excess of 35 feet shall require a Conditional Use Permit.
What is fhe standard height? Is fhat 35 still? Is it stated somewhere else?
Watters: Chairman Moe, Commissioners, Commissioner O'Brien, I'm not sure right off
looking at this. Caleb had prepared this report and --
Baird: Mr. Ghair and Members of the Commission, if I could jump in. Just from my
quick review of it, on the previous page under 43-C, it looks like they are trying to match
up the height with the district that the tower is in. So, they are removing the standard 35
foot and, then, making it be appropriate to the particular -- particular zone that it's
located. Am I on track with that? Is that what you're saying?
Watters: I believe so.
Marshall: You're right.
OBrien: Okay. It was confusing to me. My only interest is the fact that I have a ham
license and I'm still in the county, so I don't know if those are consistent with out of city
Meridian Flanning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 37 of 40
and city or whatever the area. And so when I saw that crossed out, I couldn't -- I didn't
quite understand it all. But thank you.
Baird: I could also add as an aside that if you were ever brought into the city, you would
be a nonconforming use and you would be allowed to continue until -- .
O'Brien: Okay.
Baird: So, it shouldn't have any impact on currently existing towers.
O'Brien: That's good news. Thank you very much. That's all- I have.
Moe: Okay. All right. Any other questions?
Marshall: Just a comment that I keep stumbling over, Mr. Chairman.
Moe: Mr. Marshall.
Marshall: Each time it says any use not explicitly listed and, then, they are adding: Or
listed as a prohibited use in table -- whichever several times -- of this section is
prohibited. So, we are saying that anything -- I keep stumbling over that as I read it. It's
any use not explicitly listed or listed as a prohibited use is prohibited.
Watters: I can explain that if you'd like.
Rohm: Please do.
Watters: I~don't know if I can state this a different way than what you just said, but,
basically, if it's not listed in the schedule of use it's a prohibited use.
Marshall: Right.
Watters: The uses that are listed that are shown as a-- well, wait a minute.
Baird: Mr. Chair?
Watters: I'm going to back myself up here.
Newton-Huckabay: If it's not specifically listed as prohibited, it's still prohibited.
Watters: Yes.
Baird: Mr. Chair and Members of the Commission, the flip side would be to be allowed
it needs to be listed.
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 38 of 40
Watters: If it's listed in -- what I said previously and, then, if the use is listed in the
schedule of use with a dashed line that means it's prohibited. Does that clarify your --
Marshall: I understand what it's trying to say.
Watters: Okay.
Marshall: It just feels very stilted and difficult to get over. You have to sit and fihink
about it for a second and, then, okay, that makes sense, but I'm not quite sure why we
have to add that? I mean I thought it was pretty clear before that without that it says -- it
states any use not explicitly listed is prohibited. Seems pretty clear to me. But I feel like
we are complicafing it by saying, well, now if we are listing it as a prohibited use, it's
also prohibited or it's not prohibited, but it's prohibited because it's listed as prohibited.
Watters: Which number are you looking at?
Marshall: Right now -- it occurs several times. First is 11-2A-2C.
Watters: 2A-2C?
Marshall: Yes. And it's also in 11-2B-2C. 11-2B-2C. I think it's in here again, but -- I
just felt like it was complicating the issue a little more than it needed to be.
Baird: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, I have got a feeling that somebody
probably thought they had a gotcha, because something was listed, but it was listed as
prohibited, so this is probably staff's attempt to just close a potential loop hole. I'm sure
there was a reason for it and if for some reason this doesn't make sense or can be
addressed differently, it's possible that it could be changed before this gets to City
Council. It's probably something -- a comment that Sonya might take back and get
some history on in case it comes up at City Council. ~
Watters: It's just, basically, covering all our bases. It's not leaving it -- like Ted said, it's
not leaving any loop holes. You wouldn't believe the interpretations we have
sometimes.
Marshall: What bothers me about that is that somebody may try to interpret that it's
listed on the prohibited use, so now it's not prohibited.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Marshall, is the agreement that Sonya will get that clarified by
staff sufficient for you?
Marshall: That works for me.
Moe: Okay. If that's sufficient, then, I just need someone to close this hearing and
move forward on whatever we are going to do here, folks. So, can I get someone to
make a mofion?
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 39 of 40
Rohm: Mr. Chairman?
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: I move that we close the Public Hearing on ZOA 08-001.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Moe: It has been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on ZOA 08-001. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: Mr. Rohm.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I move that we forward onto City Council recommending
approval of ZOA 08-.001, with comments that planning staff clarify the intent of the
aforementioned discussion.
Moe: Now, will staff remember what that was?
Rohm: Yeah. Well, it's in the record.
Moe: All right.
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Moe: And there was a second. Great. It's been moved and seconded to move onto
City Council requesting approval of ZOA 08-001, as modified, possibly. All those in
favor? Opposed? That motion carries.
MOTtON CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Newton-Huckabay: I move we adjourn.
Rohm: Second.
Moe: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor'? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Moe: We adjourned at 8:47.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:47 P.M.
Meridian Planning & Zoning
May 1, 2008
Page 40 of 40
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
APPROVED•
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DAVID MOE - CHA RMAN
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DATE APPROVED
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JAYCE L. HOLMAN, CITY
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