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2008 04-03nina and Zon Meeting of the Meridian Planning to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Members Present: Chairman D Wendy Newton-Huckabay and C Members Absent: Commissioner Zoning Commission of April 3, 2008, was called d Moe. Moe, Commissioner Joe Marshall, Vice-Chairman ~issioner Tom O'Brien. Rohm. Others Present: Ted Baird, Machell;e Hill, Caleb Hood, Bill Parsons, and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-Call Attenda Roll-call i X Wendy Newto ~~ Huckabay X Tom OBrien O Michael Rohm X Joe Marshall X David Moe - Chairman Moe: Good evening, ladies and ~gentlemen. Welcome to fhe regularly scheduled Planning and Zoning meeting for April the 3rd, 2008. I'd like to call this meeting to order and ask the clerk to call roll. ~~. Item 2: Adoption of the Age Moe: Thank you very much. Next i fhere are no changes to that, so i agenda. Newton-Huckabay: So moved. Marshall: Second. Moe: It's been moved and seconc favor say aye. Opposed same sig ~m on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda and I could get a motion to accept the adoption of the ~ to approve the adoption of the agenda. All those in ' Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES.~[ONE ABSENT. Item 3: Consent Agenda: A. Approve Minutes of March 20, 2008 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting: ~ ~ Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 2 of 21 Moe: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and the one item on that is the approvai of the meefing minutes fo~r the March 20th Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Can I get a motion to approve the Consent Agenda or is there any other comments to fihat? ~~ Newton-Huckabay: I move we ap Moe: So moved. Marshall; Second. Moe: Okay. Thank you. It's b Agenda. All those in favor say a you. the Consent Agenda. moved and seconded to approve the Consent Opposed same sign? That motion carries. Thank MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES ~~ONE ABSENT. Moe: Thank you. Okay. All right. B~ some folks in the audience and ju: just kind of give you a-- kind of ho hearing, so I will be reopening the r after which at that time the applicai the project, the merits and whatnot, sheet in fhe back for any other fo hearing. You can sign up back her Commission of your views of the ~ care of, I will -- it would be asked if You will just need to raise your ha from there. Okay? ~re I do open the Public Hearing, I do see we have kind of want to -- if you haven't been here before, a-- we do things here. I will -- this is a continued aring and ask staff to do an overview of the project, will come forward and have 15 minutes to discuss nd at that point, once he is done, fhere is a sign-up ~ in the audience that would like to speak to this and you would have three minutes to speak to the ~ject. Once everyone on the list has been taken ~ere is anyone else fhat would like to speak to this. I if you haven't signed up and, then, we would go Item 4: Continued Public Hearing from March 20, 2008: CUP 08-002 Request for Conditional Use Permit for a drive through establishment in a C-G zone within 300 feet of another drive through facility for Sonic Southern S rin s by Boise Foo~d Service - 1870 South Meridian Road: Moe; So, on that note I would like reopen the public hearings for CUP 08-002 for Sonic Southern Springs and before I ask for staff, I do have comment and that is I was not at the last meeting on fhis project. I~have done a real quick overview of the meeting minutes. I do not feel I am up to speed on this, so I will be recusing myself from this hearing and turn it over to the vice-chairman, Commissioner Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you, Mr. jChair. Staff, if you'd like to give your report. Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair~Person, Members of the Commission. Before you tonight is the Sonic Southern Springs project, continued from the March 2Oth hearing. The subject site is located on Lot 11 ~Biock 1, of the Southern Springs Subdivision No. 2 Meridian Planning 8 Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 3 of 21 near the southeast corner of M~ bordered on the north by Southern east is Running Brook Estates, zo~ No. 3, zoned C-G. And to thE Commission continued the Public review the color rendering of the ~ site. It's a little outdated. One thinc the previous hearing that the build which was a major thoroughfare in is subject to design review. Also, from Meridian Road here and fher runs from Overland Road down hE renderings I just want to kind of gi things that we had talked about at concerns that the building was not corridor. We also had concerns wi well and we had also asked the ap~ off of the roadway. Basically, thE elevations, try to dress up the bacM some revised elevations, so that y~ also mentioned at the last hearinc substantially compliant wifh the U[ well as this is the driveway traffic development and it's also a sharec share that access -- the common moving back to the rendering that y~ are some of the changes that you just basically highlighted those modifications to the elevations to tr detached arched canopy fhat's alon using, the same concrete paneling those poster board medallions that 1 this side of the building and, then, t to help screen the mechanical equ view that ladder from Meridian Ro~ can kind of see what the front -- th~ drive-thru side. You see the canopy drive-thru window, add some modul with that arched canopy in the sitt attached canopy parking stalls tha order. Other fhan that, applicant ha; and with that I stand -- conclude my ~idian Road and Overland Road. The property is iprings No. 1 and No. 2, zoned C-G and L-O. To the ~d R-4. To the south is Southern Springs No. 2 and `west is Elk Run Subdivision, zoned R-8. The Hearing item -- continued the Public Hearing to ~oposed building. So, here is an aerial view of the I'd like to bring up -- and if you guys remember from ~g was turned, the back was facing Meridian Road, i the city and also an entryway corridor. So, this site ccess to the site is a public access that comes in is also a back-age public -- or private access that e to Calderwood as well. Before I get to the color ~ you a quick overview of the site and some of the ~e last hearing. Staff -- at the last hearing staff had ~cing towards Meridian Road, which is an entryway i the 17 canopy parking stalls that were fronting as icant to kind of shift those to the east to move them ~applicant come back, tried to give us some new Fand so the Commission at that time had asked for u could see those for the presentation tonight. As ~ all the landscaping on the site was pretty much ~. Staff had some concerns with this location, as ,that exits and enter -- or exits out of this -- the 'access to the south is that dentist office and they ccess right here with that development. So, now u guys had asked the applicant to bring back, these ~w at the last hearing. Now, what I have done is > kind of show you where they made some 'to spruce up the back of the building. Here is that the back. Here is the decorative wall that they are ~s they are proposing with the building. There is ey kind of use to kind of simulate the same look as ere is that half rounded facia fhat they have added ~ment as well. And, then, of course, you still can I. I'll go back to the other elevations, too, so you °other side would look like. So, again, here is the ~ extended around on fhat side to kind of cover the tion to the building. Here is the front of the building ig area. And, again, here is those -- some more the waitress would come and take the person's complied with what Commission asked them to do resentation and I stand for questions. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you, Bill. ~Is there any questions from the Commission? O'Brien: I don't have any. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 4 of 21 Marshall: No. Newton-Huckabay: Would the a Thompson: Good evening. My na South Allante Place, Boise, Idaho Boise Food Company. I guess wE folks here, we went through all th hopefully, we have addressed all mostly to bring forth fihis elevation like and fhat was your concerns at color rendering what we were envi; hoping for as far as putting the moc it look not like a rear of a building, and -- and when somebody looks ~ that was added was the Sonic si reserved for the firont of the buildir put it on the rear of the building t~ building, we have got somefhing hE that I don't really want to waste yo discussed, but I will stand for questi nt like to come forward. e is Joe Thompson, I am with BRS Architects, 1010 'm here representing the applicant -- or the owner ~retty much went through -- since we are the same hoops and concerns fhat you had previously and, f those. Tonight's Commission I understand was nd discuss -- and show you what it's going to look ~e last hearing. And, hopefully, you can see in this -ning and we hope that it meets with what you were lation, coloring, and architectural elements to make at something that fits in with the rest of the building it they go fhat's the Sonic building. Something else i up above there to help -- that's usually what's . It's at considerable expense and they decided to help show that, well, this isn't just the rear of the ~. And we hope that shows our intent. Other than ~ time going back over other items that have been ~s and any concerns that may come up. O'Brien: I have just one questions, sir. The Sonic sign up on top of the roof is -- do you also have one on the other side and~~- I see a similar projection -- Thompson: Yes. Yes. I#'s identical O'Brien: So, it's like the front of Thompson: Yes. OBrien: And the ladder, is that col Thompson: No, it will be -- it's ju; finish to match with the building. O'Brien: Okay. That's all the ques~ Marshall: I do have a question, Ma Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh. Marshall: Trying to get my depfih p roof, it's not behind or to fhe side of the front. coded because of fire or is it -- access to the roof. So, it will be painted a flat I have. Thank you. Chair. ~ption here. The sign is actually mounted on the building? Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 5 of 21 Thompson: Yes. This is actually o,n top of the roof. Marshall: Okay. Appreciate that. Newton-Huckabay: Any ofher questions? O'Brien: I have none other. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Thompson~tstay standing up for just a minute. I got to make a clarification I didn't get before the hearing started. Mr. Baird, we -- do we have to reopen the Public Hearing for all public testimony tonight or -- as that wasn't the intention when we closed this hearing on -- last week. Week before last. Baird: Madam Chair -- Madam F reviewed fhe minutes from fhe pric requested that the applicant bring 1 have an open Public Hearing. You to testify and it would be my advice that they may have that they have applicant will have an opportunity tc tonight. ~sident and Members of the Commission, I have rneeting and the meeting was continued -- it was :se elevations that they have brought, but you do ~ have members of the public who have signed up iat you go ahead and let them address any issues t had a chance to put on the record yet and the espond to any new concerns that would be raised Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Mr. Thompson, I just want to make that clear that with public testimony, which we didn't have mu~~h of at the last hearing, could impact -- have some impact on the direcfiion and influence on fhe Commission -- a decision of the Commission. So, I just wanted to m~ake sure that everyone was clear on that. Thompson: All right. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Uh-huh. So, this project, most likely. Thompson: Okay. All right. Thank you. be considering more than just the elevations of Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. W~e will go ahead and start public testimony. If you want to -- when your name is called~~if you will come up to the microphone. We have a timer up here. When' it turns yellow~~that means you have got about a little less than a minute left before you get the red buzzer, so -- and three minutes can be painfully short or painfully long, so we will see how that goes for each of you. Mary Jane Bennett. Bennett: Madam Chair and other me~mbers, I am against this -- Newton-Huckabay: I need your addr~ss and name. I'm sor . ry Bennett: Oh. 343 East Calderwood Drive. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 6 of 21 Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Bennett:~ There are traffic issues. of our driveway. We have alread~ development already, but I'm just v~ I think it really affects the quality o1 on Overland and Fairview, they loc I'm just wondering what is it going just -- I want you to really think abo~ Ne live on Calderwood Drive. It is hard to back out noticed trash from -- I don't know if it's from that ~ndering how much more is this going to bring? And ~ur neighborhood, too. And if you look at the Sonic c sad and tired and they are not even that old. So, ~ do. Right now Southern Springs looks good, but I t our quality of life. And that's all I have to say. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Skip Hofferber. From the audience he has nothing to add. I'm just going down the list. If it's going to be rebuttal, I'd like -- we will come back to you. Darrell Tomlinson. ~~ Tomlinson: Hi, I'm Darrell Tomlin: against the canal out here and thi: read them, just so I get them clea noise pollution that will come fron cars. Also, being the only drive-in deal of noise, not just firom the drivE stereos in warm weather when driv Southern Springs Commercial are onto the streets and right now a roadways wifh insufficient visibility ~ to the problem. Please take our ne when approving business -- businE facility and businesses directly acr~ sufficient parking and the neighbor employees park every day from th employees, whenever they have a park out there. And you have got a on the corner and it's been a very d you guys to, please, take those tyF enough parking in this high density is. On the lighting, you know, I dc that's going to do for our yards. I'm 25 drive-in speakers -- if that's in coc n. I live on 1817 Marshwood Place and I butt up ~evelopment. And my concerns are finro -- and I'll for the record. My first concern is the amount of ~the amount of drive-in speakers and subsequent est of Mountain View High School will add a great n speakers, but aiso the blaring music from the car - windows are open. Secondly, the high density of is pushing employees and customer parking out ood example is Calderwood, creating dangerous ~ Calderwood. This business is only going to add hborhood safety on these roads into consideration ses such as Sonic. Spring Creek assisted living ~s from the assisted living were approved without ~od safety is suffering and is at risk. They -- the business across from the nursing home and fhe open house or anything from the nursing home, ~ery narrow single lane road for cars to get around ~gerous situation. So, for the future we are asking s of things into consideration, because there isn't ~mmercial area. And I don't know what the zoning 't know -- with putting the sign on the roof, what ,~re it's probably within code and I don't know what ~, too. So, those are my concerns. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Linda Tomlinson. Okay. Linda Tomlinson from the audience, her concerns have been ~stated by her husband Darrell Tomlinson. Barry Jardine. Jardine: Good evening, Barry Jardine, 2565 West Bellago Drive. This location particularly affects me. I'm the owner dentist next door and I'm also speaking for my partner next door Jason Howell, who~~is the orthodontist there. Our main concem at this time is the parking issue, because according to the map that was up there, there is, Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 7 of 21 basically, three to four parking spots accessible on that property for employee parking and, then, they also have a covered area and according to that drawing there is eight tables. Well, four parking spots isn't enough to cover parking for employees of the establishment or people who want ~o go to that estabiishment to eat. I have been told that these people, when they want to go to Sonic, can park underneath the covered, you know, awnings, but every Sonic I~have ever been to that's for going to ordering food, that's not a parking spot for an employee or for, you know, customers to sit under the awning. Granted we have a sharetl access to the parking lots there, but our parking lot is strictly for our business, it's not ~for all the high school kids to come over, get their lunches and come over and sit on ~our property to eat their lunches. And so that is our main issue and concern is the amou~"nt of parking that this has, because both myself and Dr. Howell, we have been around town to look at every other Sonic establishment and they have numerous employee par~king and, then, also for people who want to walk up and use the awning eating area, where this location is a much smaller lot and there is ust not that t e of ou know ~ J Yp , y , parking. Also, as was mentioned, the road to the direct west is a private road through the~development and so, therefore, there is really no shoulder area for parking. The direct access off of Meridian, likewise very very narrow, there is no parking, so besides these four parking spots there is nowhere for the employees or anyone to park. Personally, another issue I have is the location of the dumpster and, then, fhe back enid of the building facing the road. All the other businesses along that road have a~very prominent -- you know, like Montana Wheat, Moxie Java, all fhem have the building facing the road and, granted, my dental office it is the back of the building, howeve`, it's designed so that the back looks just like the front and it s not the back end of a building facing the road. I would think that in trying to, you know, have an image of the ~kity, you know, entering into Meridian, you'd want to see the front of the buildings, not the back end of the buildings, dumpsters right out off the main highway and main road. Aind so those are our concerns and I wish you'd -- I'd like for you to take fhose into consideration and I'd like to thank you for the opportunity tonight, because the original meeting on fhe 6th was canceled and, luckily, I was informed, but I was never informed of future times. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Gary Phillips. Phillips: Gary Phillips at 332 East Calderwood Drive. I think most everybody has -- up here so far has said basically what I wanted to say, other than there was a meeting held at the Moxie Java and -- by the gentleman that spoke earlier here for the promoters of this project. They said that they wo ~41d let us know and -- when the next meetings were and they never did. When they originally proposed this project out here, not just the drive-in, but the Southern Springs in~general, they said that there would be restaurants, but it wouldn't be -- we didn't -- none of us thought this kind of restaurant, so -- and I thought there was maybe some little wrong doing there, but -- also, I was wondering why fhe Commission doesn't notify~ people within a certain area of these kinds of projects like this that -- in writing that these are going to be taken care. We knew the one on fhe 6th was canceled, because that's what's on the sign, but we never got any written notice through the mail to the effect that they were going to have a Public Hearing. Again, we never got one fo~ the 20th. They never changed the sign. And the Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 8 of 21 sign is located in the middle of the ~property where you have to actually get out of the car and go read the sign to see what's'ton it. It's not out by the road like they usually are. I don't know who placed the sign, but they didn't do a good job. I guess that's my only question is why -- why don't we get~notified of those anymore? The meetings. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Mr. Ph~llips, fihe developers are required to notify anyone wifhin 300 feet of their property. If~ you fall outside of that, you wouldn't be required to get a notification. So, that might be~~why you wouldn't have received one. Phillips: Three hundred feet doesn~l seem like very much. That probably wouldn't even get the Tomlinsons or the Bunches ~who live just directly over the -- fihe creek. Newton-Huckabay: But I believe that is -- I believe that's state code. Or is it city code? That would be the reason why. ~ Baird: Madam Chair, perhaps for can give sort of an overview of the i Newton-Huckabay: That's a great Bunch: I'm Rawley Bunch, 1797 f Darrell Tomlinson. And I would IikE we were told from the Java coffee ~ meeting and the one that was -- ca~ know nothing about it until today ab~ or called my wife. I was busy. To Darrell Tomlinson back and his wif~ But it didn't say anything about that. parking kind of upsets me a little ~ crowded and when I come through There is trucks parked out there nov the side, like fihey said when they h~ cars parked there and we have to s from the school go a little fast and careful. Two cars go by, but they coming home from the school, they place, when they built -- they said th berm on top of the fence and right shines right through and I see the Sc to be right in back of it. The sign. I can see all the signs -- signs that th~ they got a little cover over the sign, I is they should have put the berm uE there and measured the berm witF everything, you couldn't even see tha ~en it's appropriate for rebuttal the planning staff ce that was given on this particular item. Thank you. Rawley Bunch. arshwood Place. I live right off the creek next to "-- about the note -- a letter was supposed to be -- ace that they were going to send us a letter for this ~e up, supposedly, that was canceled -- and I don't ut 2:00 o'clock when Darrell Tomlinson called me -- i me about the thing. So, then, fherefore, I called 'and they confirmed that the meeting was tonight. That kind of teed me off. And, again, on this -- the >out that. Like he says, right now Calderwood is iere -- I'm retired and I drive that road all the time. ' Pickup trucks. And if there is -- that rest home on %e a meeting or something in there, there is a lot of ip one place, because some of those kids coming the cars -- only one car can get by if you're not `re awful close. And I don't like -- especially kids walk and that's crowded with kids, too. And our ~signs wouldn't bother us. Well, they didn't build a iow Schuck's is right on the corner and that sign iic now is going to face the back and we are going an just look out the window and see the sign. You y said they would block off right next to Schuck's, ut fihe light still shows through. And all I'm saying 'top of the fence and -- because I have went out ! high beam and the highest Schuck's sign and , And that's -- that's about all I got to say. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 9 of 21 Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. M says her concerns have been ad~ rebut? Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Mar.shall Marshall: No. You had one more Newto n-H ucka bay: Okay. Bunch. Okay. From the audience Myrna Bunch ;ed. Would the applicant like to come up and that -- Baird: And, Madam President, before you do go for the rebuttal, I know -- it looks like everybody has spoken, but just for~ the record make sure fhat everybody has -- who wants to has had a chance to speak~ Newton-Huckabay: I'm sorry. I don't get to be chair very often, so I'm kind of new. Is there anyone else who would like to~speak that hasn't been called? Come forward, sir. You're probably Dave. ~~" Roberts: I am Dave. Newton-Huckabay: I apologize. I Roberts: Madam Chair, Members c Trail Drive, Meridian, Idaho. 83646. Ross gave last week with the origir project was approved it had two or 1 the dentist's office that testified that pianned for that property. So, this I with some of the concerns that peo~ retail development originally and fa approved as part of the process. Th Newton-Huckabay: Thank you. Did Marshall: No. I just was trying to was for that we said we'd get back Newton-Huckabay: I believe Mr deferred. Okay. Mr. Thompson. Thompson: Madam Chair, Commis Joe Thompson. with BRS Architec representing the owner. I'll see if I what I could and, hopefully, it's unc garbage, because of the fast food p and fhe scheduling of the pickup is company and they have approved 1 So, garbage shouldn't be an issue. your name there. the Commission, Dave Roberts, 744 East Kaibab just want to reiterate the testimony that Lawrence I development plan that was submitted when this ~ee fast food drive-ins drawn on that plan. In fact, fast food restaurant was on that -- was originally is all along been a retail development and comes ; have addressed, but, in fact, was approved as a foods with drive-ins were originally planned and ik you. have some discussion before the applicant or -- out fhere was one more person on the list that has deferred. From the audience he's ~ners. Shall I state my name again or am I good? ; 1010 South Allante Place, Boise, Idaho. Here in address most of these concerns. I wrote down `standable. One of the items was the increase in ~e. Well, the size of the -- the garbage containers etermined by the Sanitary -- SSC I believe is fhe s site and what we have dawn up and designed. : should be up to the -- each owner to police fheir Meridian Planning 8~ Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 10 of 21 own properties and make s~ure that any kind of loose garbage and such is picked up. It's really to fheir benefit to show that their business is clean and safe -- especially a food type operation that's a national fran~chise like this. Traffic increase. Well, as you know, Meridian Road is pretty busy, it's o ~e of the busiest in the area, and along this route we have had with the Comprehensive Plan and the way the land use and zoning has been put togefher by the city and staff an~d so forth, to have retail up front or, you know, a little higher density type properties. What I want to mention is that traffic increase will be pretty marginal with this Sonic com~pared to what's in fhe area. We got a Walgreen's, we have got -- I believe there is a ~'owe's across the street, and I just don't see it being that much more of an increase. Yo~u can really see that with the ACHD impact fees that they have given, which should help~accommodate keeping the streets and utilities -- or, excuse me, the streets and the curb cuts and the condition of the roads in good shape for that traffic. So, it should be accommodated for. And there was -- one of the neighbors had mentioned the incre~ased traffic and the danger in overflow parking on Calderwood, which is to the south. rf staff could show an overall of the site plan. If you will nofice, Calderwood is pretty far~to the south. I don't imagine parking overflowing onto Calderwood and having the folks walk up to Sonic -- Sonic being the site up there. There is quite a few properties in befinreen. One thing I did want to mention and it was -- the developer testified at the heari i~g, Lawrence Ross with Mitchner Investments, that the property to the north would have some overflow capability for Sonic to take care of the few parking needs that are nece~ssary for this -- the operation of Sonic. And, then, as far as the covered parking, we are ~also hoping that we will get some foot traffic from employees of the businesses nearby and we have a sidewalk connecting the place to the other businesses. So, we are h~oping that will take care of some of that. We had a comment also about Southern Springs looks great right now and -- but there is a concern fhat it will eventually start to`look old and faded and tired. That, again, is up to the developer and the businesses ~to keep up. It's really to their benefit to keep the businesses clean and painted and i~ good condition. Really don't -- we don't have any control over that, but any retail business that goes there is going to have that same issue and it is, again, zoned for this Ckind of use. Noise was another issue. And it's the same issue you hear at most hearings regarding a commercial type property abutting against residential. There is not much you can do about it. Everybody would like to have a park next to fhem. Unfortunately, with the cost of the property and the value of it, you can't have that. There has to be~a line drawn somewhere. Unfortunately it's here. What we do have is Meridian Road, which creates quite a bit of noise, and we have Sonic right next to it, which is -- I don~t have the exact numbers, but you can see on the overall that iYs quite a distance, 200 plus feet to fhat property line that their properties start at. We will have a commercial bu.ilding in between. I don't know, does staff have a site plan showing the proposed -- let me get a little pointer here. Here is our property. And there is a private road right thro~~gh here in this area and, then, we have fhe ditch, which has landscaping. and trees and such. And, then, we have in between another commercial -- set of commercial pr ~perties. And that will act as a buffer between the noise and smells and such that may~be created by any retail up front. There is also a comment about this being high density commercial. Well, as far as commercial goes, I wouldn't consider these high density.~You start looking at high density when you have a multi-level type use and I'm not certain, but the properties I have worked on here Meridian Planning 8 Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 11 of 21 haven't had more than one level. down. But, you know, fihere is a bE that as a noise buffer and light behind. And as far as we had one concerns about individuals parking you can do with folks that transgre: really falls on the people there. AI that people abide by that, but their the type of use that you see at Sor for pedestrian and a couple parkir down and we have fhe overFlow tc comment about the back of fhe bu the building and concerns about it. building facing the sfireet and it wa; proposed here. So, hopefully, yc notification of the hearing. You gu~ the requirements of the city and m~ feet of this, the properties affected site, that was all done in an approv staff. So, hopefully, that takes care another -- towards fhe end here a c and how it's affecting the neighbor: the neon, so there is no neon on thi; during business hours and shouldn the sfireet or on Meridian Road itsel~ discomfort. And I think that's pretty questions at this point? Newton-Huckabay: Questions? Marshall: Madam Chair, I do have ~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner I Marshall: I'm curious, where do you Thompson: Don't we have the twc parking spots for employees. Marshall: And how many employee: Newton-Huckabay: Sir, I'm sorry, ~ Thompson. Thompson: I'm sorry. 'hat keeps the signage down. It keeps the building iefit, if you ever do need to go two stories, you have uffer between Meridian Road and any properties person talking about their property to the south and here and using the Sonic business. Well, about all ~ and trespass, if you will, is to put up signage. That you can do is say you cannot park there and hope ~ really no control on that. But, hopefully, with the -- c, it's almost all drive-in. We do have some seating ~ spots for the occasional person who wants to sit the north and, hopefully, that will help. Again, the ~ing. We had another comment about the back of ~Well, that building to the south has the back of the i't done in an esfhetically pleasing a manner as we a can keep that in mind as well. And about the s might address that, but we did meet -- meet with iled out our fliers to these folks that are within 300 ~ And as far as the signage that we placed on the ~d manner as well. Photos were taken and sent to ~f that issue. And I did want to talk about -- we had mment about the Schuck's sign and how bright it is ~Well, on this Sonic sign we have taken out any of 'property and that will help. It will just be normally lit be anymore that what you're going to see across So, hopefully, it will blend in and won't add to the much it. I don't think -- do I need to stand for any for employees to park? spots? Or fhe four spots. Yeah. There is four you have at any one time? can't make comments from the audience. Mr. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 12 of 21 Baird: I'd like to advise everybody ~n attendance here that only the person who is up at the microphone should be speaking~;~ because that -- fhis is being recorded and you can't pick it up, so -- ~~ Thompson: Well, the maximum n those will be younger, usually one then, any additional parking we ma to the north. According to Meridia. believe, for retail and we providec somewhere in the neighborhood o double the parking required by city can provide for any additional empl Marshall: May I also ask, fhen, the norYh? I'm not familiar with it. mber of employees would be ten, but a number of ~f their first jobs, and they will be dropped off and, ~ need for employees, we have got plenty of parking ordinance we have to have a ratio of one to 500, I I believe -- I did the units to the north. We have one to 250 or one to 300. So, we have got nearly ~rdinance. So, hopefully, with the extra parking we is to the north? What is this overflow parking to Thompson: Can you show -- staff~~ can you show the overall. Right there. ThaYs a good one right there. Okay. Yeah. This is -- this is the Sonic. Marshall: Right. Thompson: This is fhe road cominc here, about 8,000 square feet, or -- to the north of it and it actually take; here and, then, parking along the b walkway here. Immediately across was designed it was about one to every 250 square feet of buildinc ordinance requires that for every 50 Marshall: Are you including, then, Thompson: The drive-in stalls wou Marshall: So, you're saying that yo Thompson: The parking -- I'm sorry Marshall: You have four parking n. We have a strip mall type property -- or building ~eah. Eight thousand. This one is about 6,500 just up these finro lots and it's all parking along the front ck. So, immediately across this road will be a little iis road is quite a bit of parking. As I said, when it '50, one to 300. And that would be one -- or for we have one parking spot provided. And city square feet you have one parking stall. drive-in stalls for parking? be strictly for, you know, drive-in patrons. footprint is a thousand foot? s, other fhan the drive-in stalls; is that correct? Thompson: We have the drive-in st'alls, I believe number about -- was it 17 or so. And, then, we had four additional parking ;beyond that. Marshall: Right. So, parking for e~mployees, essentially, you're not going to expect employees to park in the drive-in stalls, so -- Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 13 of 21 Thompson: No. Marshall: And you're saying you h my question, then, are we counting or do you have a square footage of ive one parking stall per 250 square foot and my -- :he drive-in stalls also as part of that square footage I,000 square feet? Thompson: The -- I believe -- yeah~ All of fhe parking -- the drive-in stalls were a part of the square footage requirement. Ye,s. Marshall: Okay. Appreciate that. T^hat's all I have at this time. , ~~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O Brien? O'Brien: Yeah. Just one question~ Madam Chairman. The signage, what's going to instruct people that they can park across the roadway? I'm assuming it's people that are going to be going through the dr~ve-thru, get their food, and, then, if they want to eat fheir foot there somewhere, what's going to direct them to park at the overflow? Thompson: Well, if -- at this point I~don't believe we have anything like fhat, other than word of moufh, but if the Commission so requires, we can place something there, a little plaque or item right at the drive-in th~at would say overflow parking available to the north. O'Brien; I don't know if we could~do that without knowing that you have got this permission from whoever is going totdevelop that property. I guess -- I don't know -- Thompson: Yeafi. I'm not certain on the legality, but we did have the developer of the property -- and Lawrence Ross with ~Mitchner Investments had testified last hearing that the properties to the north, which the~y own, would be available for overFlow parking. O'Brien: Okay. The trash pickup, Thompson: I really don't know what O'Brien: What type of trash hours would the trash pickup be handled? C has dictated. do you think you will be using? Thompson: It would be a standard -- approximately ten by eight interior inside dimension CMU enclosure with opaq~'ue gates and if's going to have one of those larger type containers inside that they can p'ick up with a vehicle. O'Brien: Steel or plastic? Thompson: It will be a steel -- I believe fhey are all steel containers, the larger ones. O'Brien: So, I'm concerned to think that -- from what I understand people saying is that the trash receptacles, when they baF g the lids down, make a lot of noise during the night, if it's at a night pickup. I don't know. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 14 of 21 Marshall: Isn't that what we are talking about? Thompson: Yes. Yes. That is the t~rash enclosure. O'Brien: Okay. Where is the em you. I have no further -- Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I have Thompson: Okay. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Bill, did you Parsons: Just to go back to yo property owners. Originally fhe mentioned. It wasn't essentially hearing. The reason for, ~the contii pretty hefty changes that they wan revise the site plan. Applicant w~ recommended fhat they continue records sent out noticing on 2/12/C out the mailing and once it gets co within that 300 foot radius. So, or they will know of it being continued come to see and find out when it's ~ we at as far as -- Newton-Huckabay: And they don't Parsons: No. Correct. They do not Newton-Huckabay: If's not required. Baird: Madam President, I can gi~ When a matter is set for a hearing, ii actually show up on the date that it's checked the records myself and, ind So, there might have been some appears that the noficing was within finally hear about it, were here tonig here. I think you've had a chance to you. So, this doesn't happen very of we were a little bit surprised. But Commission can confinue to delibei you. parking? Was that number -- all right. Thank questions. guys -- the question of notification, notifying the ~earing was scheduled for March 8th, as Dave inceled; it was just continued to the March 20th ation was primarily the applicant -- staff had some ~ for the -- they had -- they wanted fhe applicant to i't able to do that in a timely fashion, so we had : item to the 20fh hearing. The clerk -- from her just because our code -- you know, once we send nued we don't send out another mailing to those -- time shot, if it gets continued again, the only way to come to that hearing that it's been scheduled to en continued to the next hearing. So, that's where st the property with the date; is that right? to re-post the property. some background and the legal basis for that. presumed that the people who are interested will ;t for. In this instance it was March 6th. So, it -- I ~d, it was continued. There was no cancellation. sinformation. Regardless of what happened, it ~ legal requirement, so I'm glad these people did and had a chance to speak. Thank you being ve your say and the Commission has listened to i when people show up and say I didn't hear, so : thank you for being here and, hopefully, the e with all the information that you have before Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 15 of 21 Newton-Huckabay: Thank you, N close the Public Hearing. Marshall: Madam Chair, I move th Newton-Huakabay: On? Marshall: On -- let me find it. On ( O'Brien: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES Baird. Thank you, Bill. I'm looking for a motion to we close the Public Hearing at this time. P 08-002. Opposed? ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Discussion? I, think I want to -- if I could speak first real quick. What I'd like us to do is the -- the original expectation by the Commission when we came was to make a decision based on the color renderings on fhe -- which was our primary request at the last hearing~` Address that issue first and, then, move on to maybe discussing any other topic that's on your mind. Marshall: I'm sorry. Approve that iss~ue first? Newton-Huckabay: No. Discuss. I'rn sorry. Marshall: Discuss that issue first. ~ Newton-Huckabay: If I said approve ~I misspoke. Marshall: Probably not. IYs probably back of the building is facing Meridia changes to try to bring the building fc facade and fhe like, but I'm still -- it s1 and that's facing a major entryway building or the look of the buildin~ understand that we want to face i seafing where it is, where people do~ same time this looks like fhe back o1 doesn't look like it's welcoming to me appropriate place for a drive-in. I I restaurant, but on Meridian Road it'; which it is, so that the access is bacN some of the park for employees ar concernecl about that back to the poir me. Yes, that is still a serious concern to me is the i Street. I think the applicant has made significant rward and still hold within the typical Sonic building ~II to me looks like fhe back of a drive-in, which it is, nto Meridian. To be honest, t'm not against the ; but to have the back of it facing Meridian, I ito the development, that's wonderful, I like fihe i't want to sit up against Meridian Road, but at the 'the drive-in to me. It doesn't look like the front. It ~i have a number of thoughts about how this is an elieve it is an appropriate location for a drive-in ' a major thoroughfare. It should be rear loaded, loff of Meridian Road. I am also concer.ned about d the access to the office next door. I'm very Meridian Planming 8 Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 16 of 21 Newton-Huckabay: Oh. Continue.~' Marshall: Back to the point of the ~ the attempt at dressing up the back Road. And that's my comments comments for a minute and let you Newton-Huckabay: No, go ahead. Marshall: Oh, continue. Okay. 01 do think fhat -- again, t~hat -- that I~ the seating -- the landscaping plan appropriate location for a drive-thr~ and I would have liked to have seE and I am concerned about the ou~ shared access with the dental offic tonight, and I hadn't recognized, w can tell me that most of your empl~ I'm sorry, ten employees, I expec oftentimes, you know, fhe first thing to work and you're going to get ten ~ handle ten employees without takin~ these allowing all the employees to bays. You can't do that. You can't that's supposed to be for customer imagine a manager allowing the err you have got to force your employE with. I understand fihere is a-- 1 involved, has stated that they will ~ that. I-- you know, fhose are my tho~ Newton-Huckabay: Commissioner O'Brien: Yes. Thank you, Madam Elevation. I think they have done a g esthetically good looking for the are~ door, which -- which does, I pointed panels showing right there for evei making these people do that. And t they moved the big sign up on top 1 Sonic drive-in. The fact that the tra Meridian Road side is a plus. Wher not be the case. It would be -- it wo~ residences on the east side. I don' elevation, the bottom line, and going reiterate what -- Commissioner Marsl k of the building is -- I appreciate the moves that -- ut it still is not what I would like to see on Meridian the back of the building. I'll reserve any ofher with that. e. ~r comments, ofher fhan the back of the building, I preciate the rear loading. I appreciate the fact that I, again, because of where it's at, I think this is an but because there are certain situations on this lot the building turned around facing Meridian Street ~t of traffic here by the drive-thru coming into the here. And my other concern, as was brought u.p >-- prior to this was parking for employees. You ~ees are young enough they won't have cars, but, ten cars. You may get eight some days, but ~ 16 year old wants is a car and they want to drive ~rs and I-- I just don't see the parking to be abie to up half -- and I can't imagine a manager of one of ake up the -- the customer parking in those drive Ilow, under this covered parking that has the stalls to come in and order from, a manager -- I can't loyees to park in there. So, now you have got -- s to park up in another area that I'm not familiar °-- the other person involved, the other entity ~w for overflow parking, but I'm concerned about ihts. rien? ;hair. Can we go back to the rendering, please? ~at job of trying to make this thing work. I think it's that it's going to occupy, in lieu of the building ne~ out at the last hearing, that it has all its electrical ~body and they are not covered up yet. We are ey have done that. And I like fhat. I like the fact i the roadway, which tells everybody that that's a ~h receptacles are in the -- are on the road side, as if you move this thing 180 degrees that would Id be putting those trash receptacles closer to the have a problem with that -- with view, with that through some other concerns -- and I'm going to all about employee parking. I have a big concern Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 17 of 21 wifh that as well. I just don't think customers to use, because you h< issues with delivery people showii know what time of day those thing with having employees' park ac especially after midnight when the to get to their cars and, who kno problems, but fhere can be. We ~ The noise issues, I-- I think that w~ and I think if there is a problem v~ contact the local authorities. I doi with a problem of parking on -- on - Newton-Huckabay: Calderwood. O'Brien: Calderwood, I don't think far as increased traffic goes, I don paid sufficient impact fees to take kind of things, I think that's -- we a another -- another issue to take up think fhat just about covers it. The parking places for employees and ~ walk some other -- from some otr Usually parking for employees are o realistic to have four parking places for other than : vendors showing up, sales people, and you have up with the trucks and delivering product. I don't iappen, but it's going to happen. I have a problem ~s the roadway in someone else's parking lot, kids will have to maybe walk across another road ~, you know, I wouldn't -- hopefully not anticipate ~ adding risk to those people. Especially females. iave sufficient noise ordinances to take.care of that i that, then, the people that are offended need to have a problem with -- or l don't have any issues forget the name of that road. South -- ~ybody's going to be using that as an overflow. As think it's going to be an issue. Again, they have ~re of that and if there is any problem with those the wrong venue to take care of it. I think that's cith another body. Especially the trash included. I ain -- the main issue I have is fhere is not enough ndors and I don't want to see employees have to r area through -- to get back and forth to work. the property. That's all I have. Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Thank you, Commissioner O'Brien. I will make my comments pretty brief. I have one question. On the ~~erflow parking to the north, we have -- I mean that -- we have n o g u a r a n t e e, w e c a n t c o u n t o n t h a t, i t s n o t c o u n t e d in t he par king spaces f.or fhe development; correct? ~~ ~ Parsons: Madam Chair Person, Me plat for the project, it only referE development, so -- Newton-Huckabay: Cross-access in Parsons: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: And cro Parsons: No. That is correct. of the Commission, when I reviewed the final cross-aceess, not cross-parking within the enfire development? doesn't cover shared -- sharing parking. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page t8 of 21 Parsons: But if -- excuse me. If the applicant got something from the owners of that property and had some agreement~'in place to where they would allow that, then, they could go forward. ~~ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. So, if we choose to craft it and we could require that as part of the CUP, they would obtain permlission for overflow parking to the north and to sign it as such? We could -- ~. Parsons: Essentially, yeah, you ~would have to have them do a shared access agreement -- or shared parking agreement and we'd have to have that prior to occupancy of the building, if you are so inclined to approve the project this evening. So, we could say something that we -- s~taff has that with submittal of the CZC. Newton-Huckabay: And fhat is a Parsons: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: And that's development -- . Hood: Either. Whoever -- Madam would need to have an affidavit frc clarify one thing real quick. Bill mer that before occupancy. I'd hate for last minute to have that agreemen north changes their mind and now something like that. So, certainly I see that doc -- binding document s~ also need to know how much parkir have enough to covec their site. S parking is there, I have not analy. agreement for this development, b verifies it has enough parking. We we verify it has enough parking for 1 will have to be done, too, even if th north, they may or may not have E keep that in mind if you go that di things. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. The m~ going to be here again was to look a of the public got notice however yo~ were surprised to have any drive-thr disappointed and relieved with the e the edge on thinking that, okay, I hearing were very compelling to turn red parking agreement. Is that the correct term? the property owner to the north or with the hair. Whoever has the -- the rights to that property i them saying that that agreement -- I do want to oned prior to occupancy. We certainly want to see onic to construct this whole thing and wait untif the ~nd, then, it falls through or that developer to the ~ants 20 million dollars for those parking stalls or ~ink if you're going to go fhat direction, we need to -ner rather than later and at the same time we will is left for that site. We have got to verify that they , keep that in mind, too. I don't know how much d it. As Bill mentioned fhere is a cross-access as each lot comes in, the planning department m't verify it has enough parking for their neighbor, ~t individual use as it comes in. So, that analysis ~ get something from the property owner from the ough for fheir own patrons and employees. So, ction. I just wanted to clarify a couple of those n reason that we have -- I believe that we were the e'levafions again. I'm very glad that members did and that we are grateful you were here. We i come through with no public testimony, so -- I'm :vations. I had hoped that it would push me over 4 because I thought your arguments at the last ~g the building and facing it towards the east with Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 19 of 21 the rear facing towards fhe wesl Marshall's comments, it still very r whether I was not paying attention, and I-- I'm not really hot on that be mean I realize there is a landscap day it still looks like a back of a thinking that turning it around is t missing that parking issue. Fl1/e re~ count the parking spaces where pa little bit illogical for us to say as a( that -- that they are going to use tF park, that's not what they are intenc would be okay with a shared parki think that that -- provided everyone property. But I also agree that if yc going to drive to work at most time elevation was a deal breaker for m rendering, it is not what I had expe conscious put my approval on it as And I don't think that it's doing ji comments, so I will be looking for a But I have to -- I have to echo Commissioner ~uch is fihe back of the building and -- and I also -- I missed the parking enclosure the first time through ~g right up -- right up against Meridian Road there. I ~ buffer and that type of thing, but at the end of the ~uilding to me. It wasn't enough to push me into ie proper way to go there. And shame on us for ly can't, in good -- within the letter of the law we can rons would go and park their cars, but it would be a ommission that if there is ten people working there, ise -- those faces -- they can't use those spaces to ed for. And so I-- the parking is a big issue. I'm -- I ig agreement with the north -- northern property. I had enough parking and with some signage on the u-- most of your team members are going to -- are ': So, I have no other comments beyond that. The ~ and which was why I think we asked for the color 'ted, it wasn't what I envisioned, and I can't in good ~eing the best we could do with that -- with that lot. 'stice to Sonic either, so -- that's the end of my notion if we have no other discussion. Marshall: Madam Chair? After co ~sidering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to deny file number CUP 08-0`02 and DES 08-004 -- oh, that's not it. Excuse me. Strike that. After considering all staff, application, and public testimony, I move to deny file number CUP 08-002, as prese~nted during the hearing of April 3rd, 2008, for the following reason: The orientafiion of fhe building does not fit with the streetscape ideal that we would like to see. ~~` Newton-Huckabay: Within the entry Marshall: Within the entryway corri that the number of parking stalls for Newton-Huckabay: In our opinion. Marshall: I'm sorry? Newton-Huckabay: In our opinion. Marshall: In our opinion. I so move. Newton-Huckabay: End of motion? Marshall: End of molion. Excuse m~ y corridor design guidelines. design guidelines. Thank you. And for the fact ployees is inadequate. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 20 of 21 O'Brien: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in fiavor? Opposed? That ends that Public Hearing. Thank you, everyone. ~; MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES~ TWO ABSENT. Item 5: Findings of Fact and~ Conclusions of Law for A roval: pp CUP 08-002 Request for Condifional Use Permit for a drive through establishment in a C-G zone within 30 ~~ feet of another drive through facility for Sonic Southern Sprinas by~~Boise Food Service -1870 South Meridian Road: Hood: Madam Chair, I would just findings as we talked about last I recent acfion, are no longer valid. vacate those from #he agenda or a will bring findings back to you in a ~ that's the next item on your agenc legal would like us to proceed. Baird: Madam President, I woulc findings are not even considered b~ are in compliance with your motion. that this is the final decision of the c a possibility that the applicant may, and try to address the issues that w attendance to check your mail and I~ ~te, obviously, the next item on the agenda are the ~aring. Obviously, those findings, based on your may look to legal department to see if it's better to on them and deny those findings. Either way, we fFerent form, obviously, than those ones there. So, . I just wanted a little precursor to that, see how recommend that you vacate that, so fhat those ~ou tonight and direct staff to bring back ones that 'd also like to point out to everybody in attendance ~, unless appealed to the City Council. So, there is deed, request a hearing in front of the City Council -e brought up tonight. So, I'd recommend those in ~k for signs down the road. Hood: Ma'am, we can talk to you ~after the hearing. We are almost done. So, any quest~ions we can answer for.you her~e in just a minute. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I would like a mofion to vacate Item No. 5 on the agenda, Findings and Facts and Conclusions~'of Law for approval as CUP 08-002, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a drive-tfiru establishment in a C-G zone within 300 feet of anofher drive-thru facility for Sonic Southern Springs by Boise Food Service. Marshall: So moved. Marshall: Second. Newton-Huckabay: All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRI'ED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Okay, I'm looking for one more motion. Meridian Planning & Zoning April 3, 2008 Page 21 of 21 . O'Brien: Madam Chair, motion to adjourn. Marshall: Second that. Newton-Huckabay: Adjourned. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:03 Pi~M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.) AP ~-vvTUN UCKABAY- VI'CE-CHAIR ~G, /' I ~ ~G - ~~ ~~ l/ ATTEST: 5 ~ f ~ D~' DATE APPR ED \ ``,,, , , , , , , , , q,Y, , , , , , , ,, ,,,, ;~~\\ ~~ ~ ~~'/~~~'-. d ~ ~g~ ; ,~,~-/~- - = L. HOLMAN, CiTX CL K - _ ,,~' ~ `~ '; 9 ~Tt~• ~` ; ,~~~/''/''//,~ ``````\``````~. 0,4 ~, ~-i~-riiii~~~