03Aug19precouncil
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 19, 2003
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00
P.M. on Tuesday, August 19, 2003, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Bill Nary,
and Cherie McCandless.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Kenny Bowers, Anna Powell, Doug Strong, Diane
Stewart and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: All right I will start the Pre-Council Meeting for Tuesday, August 19, 2003
at 6:00 in the City Council Chambers. At this time, I would like to have the City
Clerk have roll call attendance please.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: The second item on is the adoption of the agenda. Council we have four
items on the agenda for the Pre-Council.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion been made and seconded to adopt the agenda in front of us. Is
there any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Negative
votes, none.
Item 3. Update on Ten Mile Overpass Project with Eric Davis, Retail
West:
Corrie: We will proceed with Item 3. Update on Ten Mile overpass project with
Eric Davis, Retail West.
Davis: Thank you Mayor, members of the Council, staff. Thanks for having me
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out. It was May 27 the last time that I was here and we were just about ready to
go in with the letter of intent to ITD. We had John Church here who gave an
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economic forecast and we were looking under every rock we could for money
because we felt like the more money we had the better chances we would have.
We went in the next day with an offer to ITD of five million dollars for the
interchange and we won’t a pretty comprehensive letter of intent that we’ve
submitted and copied you guys on. That early June we were then invited to be
on the agenda for the Idaho Transportation Department Board, they had a
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meeting in Lewiston. We were told just after June 2 or 3 you’re on and you
come up and give us a presentation. We spent the next three to four weeks
pulling together, lobbying trying to make sure that we were working closely with
ITD staff and that there wasn’t going to be a new issue that came up. I think I
brought you up to speed last time is that the bigger issues are the fact that once
you do the Ten Mile Interchange staff is saying well now you got to do extra
lanes on the freeway from Meridian to Ten Mile or Eagle. You can’t get on the
Meridian overpass because it’s too narrow, so we have to redo that. All of a
sudden our 18 or 19 million dollar modified little proposal became over 50 million.
I call that the piling on effect, but the other two pieces the lanes and Meridian
Road and at Ten Mile those are already on to do lists that ITD had prioritized at
one stage or another. We worked through and discovered as we followed up on
our proposal that the board members were businessmen and they appreciated
any kind of a contribution and they certainly weren’t going to just send us down
the road because all we had was five million dollars. We made a pretty strong
presentation. We flew up there, Gary and Mike Ballantyne and I went up and we
prepared - it was a PowerPoint, and we had these handouts that got to each
board member a few days before and they had them in their hotel rooms. It
included the letter of intent, there was an introductory letter and then the letter of
intent and then letters of support that first of which was the strongest was from
Mayor Corrie, a very good letter and was all the support that you know said last
time that’s what we can do for you and that was good. We had a letter from the
City of Kuna. We got a letter from Larry Craig. We had a strong letter from
Boise Metro Chamber and Saint Al’s. Then throughout the presentation we
showed them that most of these items were already on their list and that we were
probably going to save them 50 million dollars overall. With 10 million dollars in
cost savings and things, we’ve engineered and the other five million we would
contribute from the neighbors. At that hearing the board was very strong and
unanimous in asking staff to follow up on this, we like these public private
partnerships. You know I was watching all the body language we had talked to a
couple of them in advance. We left there feeling like we did the best job as we
could. We couldn’t of asked for any better response. Then about three weeks
later or two weeks later we got a letter from Monty McClure, who’s the head of
our board, our district. I’ll give you a copy of this. Basically thank you for
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traveling to Lewiston on June 26 to present the public private partnership for I-
84 and Ten Mile Road Interchange. The board appreciated the presentation and
the partnership offer. It is evident a lot of work has gone into this proposal. The
coordination with ITD and impacted local public agencies is commendable. It is
imperative to continue working closer with ITD District 3 and those agencies
particularly Ada County Highway District and community planning. The board is
supportive of the partnerships and will explore the feasibility of your proposal.
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Staff will review options and make the Ten Mile Interchange a reality with your
involvement. Funding options and impacts other projects will be considered.
What we are heading for is a response from staff to the board in the September
thth
18 and 19 meeting here at headquarters. We’ll be working with them in the
meantime so again (inaudible) surprises but we do have kind of the bare bones
of a response. In fact the District 3 response at the Lewiston meeting was very
supportive of us. I mean they – Eric Shannon got up and Pam Lowe couldn’t be
there that day but Eric stood up and told the board we support this and we think
it’s a good idea and they asked a few questions and he was knocking down
answers that were right on the money. What we know they’ll say is the scope is
much bigger then just that. We need to figure that out. It will impact other
priorities and we got to figure out a way to pay for this. I think they will, I think it
may involve some work at the Legislature to allow them to bond for public
infrastructure for federal highway improvements. It may also – some more
legislative work might be done to get them to allow design build arrangements
which are much more effective and faster. You know we are standing in the
wings ready to help with that kind of an effort if that comes to bare. The other
side of it is that with the increased scope of work going all the way to Meridian
Interchange and maybe Eagle and back to Garrity. The scope of the
environmental report will be longer then we anticipated and they are saying they
can’t see how in the world it would take less then the time – construction start
wouldn’t be until Fall of 2006. The big call to me was would that kill a deal. I
mean are you guys patient enough to wait that long and we said yeah, it’s a blow
to us but we’ll deal with it. Just let us get involved and let us take as much
charge of that process as we can and we’ll do everything in our power to speed it
up but reality is reality. You would rather have a yes just a little longer then no go
away so things as they are they took the five million very seriously and I think
we’ve got – that’s not an issue. The bigger issue is managing the process and
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getting the bigger items paid for. Anyway that’s where we are. After the 19
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we’ll know more and then I hope that between the 19 and say Christmas time
we are solidifying the letter of intent and moving toward a contract of some sort of
performance obligations in there. I’ll keep you posted. I need to also go back a
little bit more in history. When we came here early on in an alliance we have a
contract and sort of a partnership with Eastbourne and the City to shoulder the
cost of Earth Tech’s involvement in what we at the time figured was a preliminary
concept report. We set a budget of $80,000 and we did the report and there
were a number of steps in the sequence that were unforeseeable but I’ve got
some of those explained in the letter from Earth Tech. We hired John Church
and remember back then we had his demographics so he’d get the growth
projections right. Then we had to add some more alternatives in response to
their review for the study. We had to then research the cost of the Meridian
Road Interchange when that was thrown our way and the additional options to
widen that. We had a second response from Federal Highway that had to be
attended to and then last but not least were the presentation and the preparation
and travel to Lewiston by the engineers. What I would propose and you know
this is small in comparison to other things I’ve asked for here but I would propose
that the budget be adjusted from $80,000 limit to $100,000, the city’s share going
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from $40,000 to $50,000 and that would be it. As far as we capped out Earth
Tech’s performance under that original concept report and using their gray matter
and brainpower. The next step will probably be with lawyers and more working
with the property owners. If we get a solid response from ITD then we’ve got a
whole other venue with the property owners to take on. That would be my
request and I knew it would take Council action and we’re in the process of trying
to pay EarthTech and needed to get it out. This is kind of a list that I just asked
Gary to put this together so we have a little bit of discussion about what the
extras were.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Eric, I have no problem but I would like an itemized statement and
breakdown. I also, I don’t know if the Mayor has the original proposal or contract
that we had with Earth Tech outlining the scope of work that they were doing at
that time. The reason we are doing this is we just found out through some stuff
that we had partnership with ACHD that we got charged and paid for some of the
lots that were on another project all the way around the corner not even close to
where we were supposed to be. I would request a breakdown of the work –
Davis: A spreadsheet?
Bird: Spreadsheet, and I’d also like to see the original proposal or the original
contract stating the scope of work that they were doing for the $80,000.
Davis: I can resurrect this.
Corrie: We’ve got that.
Bird: But if we get the spreadsheet -
Corrie: - A spreadsheet on what you’ve spent and how it’s spent and (inaudible).
Bird: Not just a spreadsheet. I’d like to see the invoices from Earth Tech and all
that.
Davis: Okay.
Bird: And I’m not doubting a single person I just.
Berg: Mr. Mayor if I could just address that as they submitted their information or
request for payment and our share of that, that he has submitted invoices and
documentation from Earth Tech. We can put it all wrapped up in one package
because he does explain exactly what they are charging for what they are doing
and then asking us to submit our portion of the bill.
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Davis: There was usually a little narrative that they would submit with those
status reports, schedules, who did what. All right.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Now I appreciate Councilman Bird requesting that, it’s important. I
do think he gave us a heads up that this would have an overrun and –
Davis: Well yes. Actually my mission last time was to bring this up but I ran out
of time and after asking for three million I figured it was counting decimal points.
De Weerd: I don’t know we kept a straight face when you said that.
Davis: I hope you appreciate that I had asked that because you know the
neighbors, we’ve got everybody. Have you looked under every rock? I didn’t
mean to be out of line I realized your budget was.
Corrie: You know when I sat in my office when you made that statement but I
would think $10,000 would be much easier to get then the three million.
Davis: In this case it’s not the dollars as much as it is sort of an alliance. I mean
we set out to do this and we’ve done it. I think we’ve taken the ball and put it
over the goal line and fought the fight. I’d like to continue to say look we have a
solid alliance with the city and you know we got into this thing together. Send a
message back to the guys in Toronto that we’re all still and you know here we
are.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I had talked to the Interim Director of ITD about how they are piling
projects on to this interchange request. I haven’t met the new director but maybe
the Mayor can give him a call. I do think we have to find a way to separate it and
I have said that at COMPASS. I actually tried to get you $270,000 yesterday at
COMPASS but I was the only one that voted for it so I wasn’t very effective.
Corrie: Well I should’ve went.
De Weerd: I think there is a lot of interest right now especially with the
momentum that State Highway 16 is getting and they do have some line items
projected and dedicated to that project and purchasing right-of-way. They are
hoping to extend it not only just south of the river but north of the river. I do know
Eagle is very interested in us getting that interchange. If Star, a couple of state
representatives, representative Moyle and Senator Bunderson are very
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August 19, 2003
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interested so you have a lot of support. ACHD is supposed to pulling together a
joint meeting to discuss State Highway 16 and the extension to the interchange
or the interstate. That might even be something you would be interested in
attending as well.
Davis: That’s great. We went to ACHD and had some pretty serious discussion
in fact some of our project overlaps what they have already designated as some
of their work. That there’s a double up in dollars there, well on the stretch of Ten
Mile all the way from the freeway up to Franklin, that’s a double up. The
intersection of Franklin and Ten Mile is a double up, signalization the whole thing.
They were a little more cautious and they wanted to get a commitment from ITD
and so we do have some homework to do there met with Hal Bunderson, he was
– this Highway 16 and in fact, that came up at the hearing in Lewiston, one of the
questions and it was addressed by Eric Shannon real well. He said, look Ten
Mile is what we need. We know that we need that anyway, so we will figure out a
way to make that connect and this is a good thing, it will enable Highway 16 to
have some more momentum.
De Weerd: Well Ten Mile Interchange needs to come first.
Davis: Yes.
De Weerd: Anyway you do have a lot of support out there so you can increase
the size of your letters of endorsement without too much effort.
Davis: Yes thanks. Thank you. Are we done?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. I guess just one last thing is I appreciate all the foot work
and I know you have personal interest in it so there’s reason for your insanity but
Ten Mile Interchange is very crucial to our community. You are doing footwork
on behalf of certainly your employer but also of our community because Ten Mile
Interchange is just very needed.
Davis: It makes it an easy job really when you know you’ve got everybody
behind you. At least its – I don’t want to say easy but rally the troops.
De Weerd: I appreciate what you are doing.
Davis: Thank you.
Corrie: Very good, thank you. Gary thank you for everything you have done.
Item 4. Discussion of Skate Park Rules and Park Shelter Rules:
Strong: Mr. Mayor members of the Council, are you all set to talk about rules?
As you may recall when we passed the Park Ordinance a few weeks ago one of
the conditions that was identified in the ordinance was that any rules related to
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use of areas in parks would come back to the Council by resolution. This is the
first set that you have before you. We reviewed three sets of rules at last weeks
regular monthly Park Commission meeting. These are two that have come
forward. One other one that we are going to work more on would be playground
rules for parks, some of the conditions that we’d like to set and post in the park.
What you see is what will actually appear on the sign as a posted rule in a park
and then become enforceable. If you have any questions about what you see
before you, I would be happy to address that.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just had a couple of little things Doug. On the park shelter rules is there
a necessity on, the second rule says no riding skateboards, in line skates,
scooters or bicycles allowed in the shelter. Is that a problem when nobody is
using the shelter or is that something you want all the time? I’m just thinking
from the enforcement side, if no one is using it I’m not sure what difference it
makes unless there’s a damage issue or something.
Strong: Well there is a damage issue. They’re riding their skateboards and BMX
bikes down the tabletops that they line up. Its taking the surface off the tables,
hanging from the rafters, climbing up on top of the shelters and taking their
skateboards and banging the tin roof of the shelters up and doing lots of damage.
Nary: That sounds good. I would just leave it then.
Strong: Great.
Nary: On the Skate Park rules. One of them I guess my only comment is more
philosophical. In reading the rules, I think the rules are fine. It always reads
funny to me and we see this a lot and it seems like we see it a lot in government
and we have lots of rules and at the end we say treat everyone really nicely and
have fun. I guess I just think if we are going to put it on a sign I’d rather leave
with treat everyone with respect and have fun but here’s the rules. Because I
just think it always sounds very parental, like to basically leave with the rules
rather then leave with the behavior we would rather encourage. I guess I
personally would prefer to see the last two be the first two. Just because I think it
shows that’s really what we really want to promote but we have rules that we
need to abide by. The other one was, it says how much are required and I
wonder from an enforcement standpoint were you – how are we going to enforce
that. I mean are we going to prohibit the use of the park for people that don’t
have helmets or are we just really strongly encouraging it for their own personal
safety. The reason I ask is there’s a lot of kids that can’t afford it. I don’t really
necessarily – you’re not required to wear a helmet to ride a motorcycle on the
public roadway so I don’t know that we want to – to me to require it to do that.
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We don’t have liability risk anyway and so I’m not sure why we use the word
require.
Strong: This was a much debated issue and we went and forth with the
recommended versus required and as we discussed it in Park Commission last
week we decided to bring it forward as a requirement and see how you react to
that. Obviously, you’ve identified that as one of the things that you question.
There are several ways to look at that and we feel in requiring helmet use that it
does promote the kind of safety that we want to see in the Skate Park. It also
addresses possible element of skateboarders that are maybe not the desirable
group that we want there that are unwilling to wear helmets. That was discussed
as well. Certainly it could go either way that – and I think right now it reads
recommended helmet use and that’s kind of soft. This takes a little harder
approach. It would certainly, there is an enforcement issue that arises whenever
you require anything you know how do you enforce it. This does give us the
ability to enforce helmet use on the Skate Park. We’re not certainly going to
have full time people there to do it. It’s just like we don’t allow BMX bikes and
when I rode my bicycle through the park this morning there was a BMX bike on
the park. We’ll see behaviors that aren’t in accordance with the rules. This one I
would leave at your pleasure either helmets required or helmets recommended.
Nary: The only other comment I guess too I have is on the maybe the expansive
– expand the second rule or potentially the fourth rule that instead of it just saying
no bicycle or scooters I guess I would think you would want to say no bicycle,
scooters or any other method of transportation or anything else. I don’t want
someone else trying to – you’re trying to enforce it, you have some person up
there somebody has – something else. I don’t know what. We don’t want people
using – we want them using it for skates and for skateboards and so, we want to
make it clear that’s what it’s for. I guess for me, I’m just more concerned
because you’re just going to run into situations you’re trying to enforce it but
you’ve got a 25 year old there who rode up in his motorcycle and didn’t have a
helmet and now you’re saying you have to put a helmet on just to ride a
skateboard in the park. We don’t have liability anyway and we have a 5 year old
who can’t afford one who’s riding it they’re going well we’re going to let him
because he’s 5. We’re not going to let you because you’re 25. I just think
whether we put it strongly recommended, we are concerned for your personal
safety, or whatever we want to say to make it clear why we think it’s important. I
just think required tells me that we’re going to enforce that by ejection since that’s
our only real method to enforce some of these rules. I just don’t know that that’s
something we want to eject people for because they chose not to wear a helmet
or they can’t afford it. I don’t know what everyone else thinks.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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August 19, 2003
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De Weerd: Yes that’s a tough one. I would like to see them required but again
how do you enforce that and who do you exclude. Some of these rules that
we’ve put together you’re almost encouraging kids to break them because they
don’t have any other choice. That is a difficulty. I guess when I looked at the
Skate Park rules the only thing I saw missing was the thing that I get bothered
the most when I’m there and it’s smoking. I hate no, no, no, no but why isn’t no
smoking on here. Those older kids should not be smoking there at the Skate
Park.
Strong: I believe no smoking is already a law for underage –
De Weerd: Well so is alcohol but you just – I just would prefer and I don’t know
again you may be getting in to that enforcing thing but if no alcohol is going to be
on there I think no smoking should also be on there. They’re standing in the
middle of the Skate Park with their cigarettes hanging out and little kids whizzing
by. Well sometimes, it’s the little kids smoking there but you know it just – I don’t
think they should be on that park on that concrete doing that.
Strong: We can certainly add that.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Can you smoke in the park at all? The kids smoke in the park.
Bird: Yes you can smoke in the park.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Yes and nobody would like to see no smoking period than this guy even
though I smoked for 40 years. I think that – I don’t see how you can control this.
Helmet I would sooner see them required than worry about smoking of kids that
area of age 18 and above. You’re not going to stop them if they want to smoke.
The helmets I disagree I think most kids with what I see they spend for
skateboards having bough grandsons skateboards a couple of times if they can
afford to buy a skateboard they can certainly afford to buy a little helmet. I think
helmets – I’m like the other Council people I don’t know if we can require them
but I would sure like to suggest it. Saying that they are suggested.
De Weerd: Strongly.
Bird: Yes strongly suggested to be used. I think we might have a real problem
with enforcing that.
Strong: Mr. Mayor I actually would like to kind of put this to Bill whether there’s
any legal guidance in this issue. Apparently, what we’ve been told. The City of
Boise doesn’t require helmets because of a liability issue with helmets. We
weren’t able to sort that out one way or the other. I don’t know if there’s any legal
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precedence that if you require helmets you assume any greater liability or not.
We couldn’t find anything that addressed that. That was the explanation we got
from the City of Boise which didn’t make much sense to me but that’s what we
were told.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council I think you can require helmets. I think
that there are a couple issues. One is I don’ think you want to say helmets are
required. I think you want to say helmets must be worn. I think if you do that you
have to do some consideration in terms of what’s an acceptable helmet. That’s
really the next issue. Is a bicycle helmet acceptable or should it be a skater’s
helmet because they’re different and they provide different coverage. You need
to at least do that. In terms of how you get there in Oregon when Oregon
required all children under the age of I think at the time it was 12 and now they’ve
increase that age riding a bicycle to have a helmet that was a big issue. We’ve
got kids that the biggest purchase that they ever get is a bicycle and now you’re
going to make them wear helmets. Well what some of the communities did was
worked with the stores in town that sold them to obtain discounts or obtain
coupons that they could obtain from the Park’s and Recreation Department.
They could go down and get a discount to purchase a helmet. It was one way of
getting helmets on kids, assisting those that needed it and I don’t think the stores
lost money on the helmets. They just basically gave away their profit on it.
That’s something that you can work out with Wal-Mart, Fred Meyer, and any of
those places that sell them. You might be able to obtain some kind of a coupon
that would allow a purchase of the helmet at a discounted price. Perhaps even
Fred Meyer and Wal-Mart be willing to subsidize a portion of the cost. I think
that’s a way to get to the thing but my point is if you’re going to require them it
needs to say must be worn and you need to have some consideration as to what
kind of helmet it is. The other thing that you could do if you – in terms of the
issue is whether you say if you’re under 18 you have to have it. I think you can
segregate classes by age on the concept that those that are over 18 theoretically
anyway have the experience to make their own choices. Those under 18
presumably don’t but that’s another distinction you could make. Then the other
thing I would say with regard to these policies where it says no alcohol. I would
prefer that it read no alcoholic beverages. I think that’s more specific. That’s
really, what you’re trying to prevent and take care of it that way the same thing on
the park shelter rules. That’s all I have.
Strong: Thank you.
Powell: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Anna.
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Powell: Regarding the issue of the helmets. I know with my kids they came
home with a slip last year just about the beginning of the school year. I think it
was Central District Health that was subsidizing helmet sales for about seven
dollars a helmet. It was really reasonable. You just put in your request and I
don’t know if they just bought them in bulk or if it was through Central District
Health. I know that did come through imminently the Boise School District’s are.
Corrie: Well that’s a thought.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I like Bill’s comments. I mean I think a lot of those things we can do. It
wouldn’t matter what the rule is we can certainly encourage helmet use we can
certainly work with stores to have programs and those kinds of things. I think
those are real positive. I know I’ve purchased bike helmets for my kids through
St. Al’s before for about seven bucks. Wal-Mart sells bike helmets for seven
bucks. Skater helmets are a little different and they’re not always quite so
inexpensive. I agree with Mr. Nichols. I just don’t want it to become the
enforcement tool to make it so that it becomes less of use as a park because we
spend all of our time enforcing a helmet rule. I mean I really do want people to
wear helmets. I really think they should wear helmets and I think it’s kind of silly
and dangerous for them to be out there without a helmet. I don’t want it to
become an enforcement nightmare that that’s all we’re doing is kicking off people
because they don’t have a helmet. Then all of a sudden people don’t use it.
That’s why we have it is so they use it. I would rather go more proactive and
positive and try to find ways to get the people in the helmets. If we do find it a
problem maybe, we can revisit them whether a requirement is necessary. I think
it’s much more proactive and positive rather than a – I mean the things that are
the knows that we want to eject people for. Give them one warning or no
warning and eject them for glass on their – I think cigarettes to me are dangerous
on that. One it causes a litter problem because I’m going to guarantee most of
those people don’t go look for their ashtray to go put their ashes and buts in them
when they’re done. Secondarily they’re out there with a lit cigarette with other
people whizzing around them on a skateboard. I think it’s dangerous. To me
that is a safety hazard. It has nothing to do with a health issue. I think it’s a
safety hazard on there. Those kinds of things I think we do need to be very strict
about because of the danger. The personal danger of choice that people bag I
think we need to be more proactive about in regards to (inaudible). I don’t think
it’s the same as having alcoholic beverages or glass or lit cigarettes out there.
The only other thing I looked at in the – and just in the wording of it. No glass
containers are a bullet by itself. No alcoholic beverages we’ve put that it’s not a
personal conduct or behavior it’s a thing so it probably doesn’t need in there. It’s
not a conduct choice it’s just a thing just like a glass container. It probably
doesn’t need to be a sub of personal conduct and behavior. Threats and
violence is weapons are the same thing. No dangerous weapons or no weapons
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it’s just a thing. I think you can make that its own bullet. No graffiti again that is a
personal conduct a behavior same thing with no littering. That was just a
grammatical thing. Anyway, that’s just my thought on that. I think being more
proactive on the helmet I just don’t want to see us enforcing that to death that we
just kick kids off just because they don’t have a helmet rather than looking at the
positive.
Strong: Mr. Mayor if I can summarize that maybe where I think we are. See if
we can get some consensus because I would really like to leave tonight with a
resolution that then we could post at the Skate Park that seems to satisfy
everybody. If we go down through the list and make changes to just, note the
Diane’s back there making notes so this should be all captured.
De Weerd: You’re hoping.
Strong: So the fact that I’m not writing anything shouldn’t bother you.
De Weerd: I was going to make that comment.
Bird: She’s back there.
Strong: We’re going to change the order it sounds like to put the desired
behavior up top. I don’t have any problem with that. Treat everybody with
respect and have fun that kind of thing. Hours of operation are important
because they’re now in the City Park Ordinance. To address the comment about
everything else on the Skate Park. We’re enforcing this right now. Skateboards
and in line skates only that says it real clearly. We’ve added no bicycles and
scooters allowed because that’s what we get questioned about. You know the
moms say well it doesn’t say no scooters. We say but it does say skateboards
and in line skates, only therefore the scooter has to go. This just clarifies that
current issue that we’ve addressed hundreds of times since the park opened. I
would like to leave that. I’m thinking what I’m hearing about helmets even though
I’m a helmet advocate and I’ll say that up front because I worked in therapy units
with a lot of head injured adults and children. I will relent and say we put in
helmets are strongly recommended. That kind of solves a lot of the other
potential dialogue that could go along with it sounds like requiring helmets with
type and so forth. We might specify skaters helmets are strongly recommended
or something more specific like that. Leave it strongly recommended and see
how we go with that. I’ve actually noticed that there’s an increase helmet use at
the Skate Park in just recent weeks and I’m not sure what caused that. Whether
it was the guy that came to town recently that did an exhibition or what but there
has been some increased use. If we go down to personal conduct, we can edit
those out that does make sense what’s personal conduct what’s not. I would
propose adding no cigarettes that has been a problem. I guess we were looking
at that being covered by no littering because you’re right that’s typically, where
they end up as litter but we should be specific about no cigarettes. Then I think
the rest is straightforward. If we could make it with those changes if that would –
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
Page 13 of 21
Corrie: It’s being a resolution if something doesn’t work out we can always
change it pretty quickly. Ordinances are a little more difficult.
Bird: Let’s bring them forward as resolutions.
De Weerd: Let’s do it.
Corrie: Thanks Doug that’s good.
Strong: The skate or the park shelter rules any –
Bird: Same thing.
Strong: Same thing.
Nary: Yes like I said my only question on that was the no riding when no one’s
using it but you made a great case as to why it probably should be done all the
time.
Strong: And we’re changing the wording no alcoholic beverages.
Bird: Yes.
Strong: Okay.
Bird: Have Mr. Nichols look it over.
Strong: We may head it out in the second item, which says no riding
skateboards, in line skates, scooters, or bicycles in shelter. The allowed seems
kind of redundant if we’re already saying no. We already looked at that if that
does cause any problems we’d just edit that out.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I don’t recall off hand Doug and maybe Mr. Nichols does. Do we need to
do a resolution? Does our ordinance say – okay the ordinance says it has to by
resolution. I think that sounds great now. I’m all for –
Bird: I am too.
Nary: I don’t know if we have time to have that next week. I don’t know if that’s
too soon.
Corrie: Is it all right with you Doug next week. I know you wanted it tonight but –
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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st
Strong: Well the ordinance isn’t in effect until September 1 so –
Corrie: So that would be all right.
Strong: I think if this is passed by resolution it would be my understanding that
they become enforceable as soon as we put a sign up. Once you have the sign
posted then they’re enforceable.
Corrie: That would give you time.
Strong: That’s your pleasure I guess.
Berg: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes Mr. Berg.
Berg: Thank you. Doug and I talked back and forth of the procedure and
process of how to present these things to you. I think we just probably proved
the fact that it’s a Pre-Council issue, iron out the things, and then have a
resolution prepared. We’re going to be following up with a lot of these things to
come to pass. Also, I will be publishing these resolutions in the newspaper
hopefully to gain some attention to maybe some of the folks that we are trying to
create a safe place for our parks.
Strong: And we bring back playground rules it’s probably going to be similar
amount of discussion because there’s a lot – just searching the internet there
was a long list of different playground rules. We already got bogged down in
Park Commission on that one.
Corrie: Frank could help us out too with the paper.
Item 5. Discussion of Comprehensive Parks and Recreation System
Plan:
Strong: Do we move to the next item of the Action Plan?
Corrie: Okay.
Strong: Hopefully, everybody has had the opportunity to look through this.
Essentially what’s before you is an update of a previously approved and passed
plan that puts updates park acreage information. Park name information where
we had parks that were undeveloped that were called things like Thousand
Springs Park which is now Kiwanis Park when you read it in the plan so that we
can update other chapters of the plan like the impact fee chapter. You have to
have park acreage and park development costs and all of those elements that go
into calculating park impact fees to make changes in that chapter. This is an
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August 19, 2003
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update of an already approved plan if I understand the past correctly. What
we’re asking for is approval of the changes and I believe that’s done by
resolution is that correct? Once you agree to what we have here then what we
need to bring to public meeting then are the impact fees so that we can begin
collecting those sometime in the next fiscal year. I’ll stand for questions and
hopefully be able to answer them.
Corrie: I think it’s well done myself, which we’re heading in the right direction.
It’s a wish list too, which is good. We have to have it do our impact fees.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: There were a number of changes as I recall. I mean we heard this
last fall so it’s hard to remember what all we discussed. There were a number of
issues. I know there was a two-page letter from P&Z on commenting on required
changes or recommended changes and a number of other things. Have these all
been incorporated into the document?
Strong: I hope so. I was not present at that time. I don’t know if anybody from
Planning and Zoning was either. Elroy has pretty much spearheaded the
changes that are in here and he was here so my assumption would be that those
have been incorporated in this document.
De Weerd: Well I think those even pre-dated Elroy. We had some meetings
what last spring I think we held some a Special Meeting to get it done in a timely
fashion. It’s now a year later and we’re finally going to adopt it. Those were all
discussed even prior to Elroy stepping into this.
Strong: I have no way of answering that question to know whether they’re in
there or not. I guess is the best way to answer it.
De Weerd: Well I guess we could bring it forward with the resolution but maybe
Will could pull some minutes from that long time ago meeting and see if you can
make sense of the discussions and some of the documents that were referenced
that recommended the changes. I think I could probably even find mine. I’ll try
and do that.
Strong: This plan I think is supposed to be updated every two years.
De Weerd: Which is in six months.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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Nary: I think it’s real good Doug. I’m with Council Member de Weerd I mean I
don’ t recall all the specific changes but I mean the overall plan I think is real
good. I did just happen to notice though as I was looking here on the existing
park resources map. I think Settler’s Park has an apostrophe in it. I think Tully
Park doesn’t have an e in it. It’s Linder Elementary not Linden Elementary.
Meridian primary – Meridian is mis-spelled in Meridian Primary School then
Generations Plaza has an s –
***End Of Side One***
Nary: -- have that many typos in one map. I think it’s all – existing park
resources. We should certainly never mis-spell the name of the town but other
than that – Chaparrel I think Chaparrel has an a not an e. We want to make sure
we fix those little typos because I just happened to notice them as we were
looking.
Strong: We actually had to request this electronically from the consulting
company that did our maps. Then we made some changes so we now have this
electronically that we can make those changes. Those could be easy edits to do.
Nary: Make sure the next one they do is free. The same one on here has a lot
of – this one here on the Trail’s Plan the same things are mis-spelled. I don’t
recall on the Fothergill’s that that’s how they spell the name or not. Is that one
correct?
Corrie: Yes.
Nary: But there are other ones. Those are little things (inaudible) the final plan
we want to make sure we don’t have mis-spellings on our map.
Strong: They’re consistently mis-spelled.
Nary: Yes they’re consistently mis-spelled so it must be the same –
Corrie: System.
De Weerd: Well and even though I made the motion to adopt it as Settler’s Park
for some reason I know it was Meridian Settler’s Park. On this map, it just says
Settler’s Park.
Nary: It was a big to do (inaudible). Council Member McCandless just pointed
out Lochsa Falls is mis-spelled.
Corrie: We already made a lot of changes we can make a few more Doug.
Strong: There is about three ways to spell Lochsa isn’t there.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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Corrie: I’ve seen four already.
Strong: That’s a tough one.
Nary: Well however they put it on their big signs.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor Members of the Council a couple of – one point of reference.
I think it was Brad Hawkins-Clark that had issued the memo that talked about
specific changes that needed to be made in the plan so that’s what you need to
look for. When the Council tentatively approved the plan before, it was with the
idea that the P&Z recommended changes be incorporated into the document.
The reason we haven’t passed a resolution is that the Council wanted one
document not two. They didn’t want to have that P&Z recommendation with
some kind of addendum to it so that there was one document people could look
at. That’s been the delay so that’s what you want to look for is a memo I think it
was from Brad.
Strong: We can find that then.
Nichols: Or he may have it where he can pull it up for you. Then the other
suggestion I have is that you include a date in this plan. Either the date the
Council tentatively approved it or now that it’s got updated information in it, it
would probably be best to call it August 2003 so that when we refer to it in the
resolution it has a specific title and it’s just easier to reference it. The resolution
will be pretty short and sweet and say attached is Comprehensive Plan August
2003. Just having a date on even the cover sheet or something like that will help
us a lot.
De Weerd: It’s Meridian Middle School.
Corrie: You have Meridian Junior High School and it’s a middle school. Meridian
Primary School –
Nary: And I think also isn’t the Kiwanis Park part of our resources map?
Strong: Yes.
De Weerd: Well that’s what Doug had mentioned. Some of them have been
renamed.
Corrie: Well I would like to –
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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Nary: This doesn’t show the Mountain View School on here as well. Just that
update stuff make sure it’s new.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Yes it looks really nice. I haven’t had time to read.
Strong: That’s it. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you Doug appreciate it. We’ll get going here then.
Item 6. Discussion of Planning and Zoning Department Priorities --
Anna Powell:
Corrie: Anna you’ve got –
Powell: Two minutes?
Corrie: Take your time and then we have – there’s not going to be too many
here tonight we’ll get through it as fast as we can.
Powell: I don’t know if you’re going to be able to see that. Yes, I think you can.
Mr. Mayor Members of the Council I had asked you for some help in trying to
prioritize some of the – well it took me two months to figure out all that was
before me and it’s presented on these two pages. I realize that I don’t know
enough of the city to know what the priorities are as far as the Council is
concerned so that’s why I’m before you tonight. Several of these items are listed
as immediate action items on the Comprehensive Plan but again there’s too
many to perhaps treat them all as immediate. I was hoping for some help.
Regarding the Zoning Ordinance Amendments I think you can see the lengthy list
there. My thoughts since I developed this list ran along these lines. I have no
idea how you feel about this so I need input. To do the ordinance amendments
requires changing several parts of the code because the code is just not
structured in a way to allow what we want to do. Things like have administrative
approval of some items like lot splits or having two buildings on one lot instead of
rather two lots on one building as shown there. Things like that for administrative
approval it just really isn’t set up for that. It’s been very difficult for us to do the
Zoning Ordinance Amendments unless they’re kind of a self-contained unit such
as the Sign Ordinance or the Landscape Ordinance. My thoughts are that it may
be an appropriate time and place in the history of the City of Meridian to redo the
Zoning Ordinance to restructure it the way that you want it structured. It would
actually I think be faster to get all of these things done by doing a wholesale new
Zoning Ordinance with a structure that you like and then take the standards that
we’ve got and put them into that structure that works. I’ll let those coughs stand
as is for now. I guess I’ll continue on. I don’t know if you’re choking or what.
There were also a number of Comprehensive Plan actions downtown design
standards, bold North Meridian Area Plan into the Comprehensive Plan,
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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Neighborhood Center Area Plan, implement the half mile grid, Old Town Rezone,
Pathway Plan and design standards. Resolve irrigation issues, downtown
master plan the highlighted ones on here are ones I’ve added since – they’re
new to your list. What I tried to do on the other columns is give you an idea of
what kind of impact they may be or some way for you to prioritize if there is such
a thing. The agendas means whether or not it takes items off of your agenda so
a high indication would mean that it would be something that would no longer
come to you it would be done administratively. Services reflects whether or not
we’ve gotten request from the either the developer, public or the general public to
do these things. Cost reflects mostly the cost of whether there is some
production cost involved in copying, noticing, or things like that. Involvement is
just who would be involved if there is anybody in particular. A lot of them were in
house as far as the Zoning Ordinance Amendment. Esthetics whether or not it
has the potential to improve the esthetic appearance of the City of Meridian and
economics whether or not it has the potential to improve the economic base of
the City of Meridian. You know none of these were a real scientific determination
it was just my first thoughts as to what would be appropriate and certainly there is
room for difference of opinion on those things. The support projects are more
administrative projects ones that I would be doing. The other ones my staff
would be working on but the support projects are just administrative in nature and
have to do with processing or different research type projects that you’ve asked
us to do. At this point since, we ran late on the Pre-Council Agenda just some
guidance’s to where you might want to go from here. Help.
Corrie: Anna let me ask a question of Council. Have you seen this before
because their sheets have been put out to you but did you not get them?
Nary: That?
Corrie: Yes.
Nary: Just on the –
Corrie: Just on this? Then you need a copy. Are other copies in? I thought
maybe you had – it was supposed to be out when you sent them a call back.
Can we get some hard copies Will on this and give it to them?
Powell: Yes and I can send an email to everyone. Originally I had just sent it to
you Mayor and –
Corrie: Right. I copied them, sent them out, and supposedly gave them to each
one of the Council but I don’t know whether it got there or not. All these people
are saying where did that come from. If you would do that then they could each
get an email. Each one and then send it to them.
Powell: I’ll do that and I’ll provide this revised one that’s added a few things to it.
It’s not the one that you have. I’ll send out a new one I’ll include you.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I’m not sensing that maybe we can do all this in one shot. I do like the
idea of a Comprehensive Book of the Code. I’ve seen in other circumstances
that the code – at some point that could have been done and then it wasn’t.
Then by the time the code got out of hand, it was to time consuming to do that. I
think we’re at least my perception is I think we’re at a stage that we can still do
that and make it manageable. Although it does seem like it’s going to take some
you know one assigned person quite a bit of time to do that. I guess your staff
time is pretty precious and so I guess I’m a little concerned about that although I
think it’s a wonderful way to do it. I don’t know whether or not there’s money
available on some sort of contracted basis to contract with a person to at least do
the first initial draft and run through. Then have a working copy to then give back
to your staff to sort of winnow down and make into a more readable format.
Then that doesn’t leave it on your plate. Again, I don’t know if that’s a possibility
but it’s just something to look at so that your staff time isn’t eaten up just on the
graphing stage. I think those are real good. Again, I guess I would like a little
time to sort of digest what you’ve got. I think for months we’ve said yes let’s go
ahead and get to that too but not really realize that the list is pretty long. I think
they’re all important and I think it’s a good exercise to go through to figure out
what really we need to get through first.
Powell: And Mr. Mayor Members of the Council my original memo if you – once
you get a chance to read it it was just what may be an appropriate process for
determining the priorities as well. It maybe that you just each individually provide
me with some comment and if they all come back that you know the same five
priorities show up then I think that that’s sufficient from Mayor. That may work.
Regarding the Zoning Ordinance Amendment, my thoughts are that there is
money set aside in the next budget for services. I have done – I feel comfortable
doing it myself and in that sense, I feel comfortable administrating a contract with
limited input from consultants. I think I could get it done cheaply because I have
very strong opinions on what format I want to use. I have a template I want to
use provided that the Council wanted to use it also. I would run that by you. I
have the files on my computer at home that that’s the format I want to use. I
think that I could do it fairly cost effectively.
Nary: Okay.
Powell: I guess at this point Mr. Mayor I’ll get those emails out to you. If you
want to respond individually that would be interesting to see what your priorities
are and if there’s a real consensus then maybe we can just communicate via
email to see if that works.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
August 19, 2003
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Corrie: Maybe we can set a time to hear it. I’m like Mr. Nary. It’s going to take
us more than a little bit of time to do this.
Nary: Not to long because the list will just get longer.
Corrie: That’s true. Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move to adjourn the Pre-Council Meeting.
Corrie: Motion is made do I hear a second?
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to adjourn the Pre-Council Meeting tonight.
Any further discussion. All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried. The
Pre-Council Meeting is hereby adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:04 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK