2023-04-20 Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting April 20, 2023.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of April 20, 2023, was called
to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Andrew Seal.
Members Present: Chairman Andrew Seal, Commissioner Nate Wheeler, Commissioner
Mandi Stoddard, Commissioner Enrique Rivera and Commissioner Jared Smith.
Members Absent: Commissioner Maria Lorcher and Commissioner Patrick Grace.
Others Present: Joy Hall, Kurt Starman, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Stacy Hersh and Dean
Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
X_ Nate Wheeler Maria Lorcher
X_ Mandi Stoddard Patrick Grace
X_ Enrique Rivera X Jared Smith
X Andrew Seal - Chairman
Seal: All right. Good evening. Welcome to the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting
for April 20th, 2023. At this time I would like to call the meeting to order. The
Commissioners who are present for this evening -- evening's meeting are at City Hall and
on Zoom. We also have staff from the City Attorney and Clerk's offices, as well as the
City Planning Department. If you are joining on Zoom this evening we can see that you
are here. You may observe the meeting, however, your ability to be seen on screen and
talk will be muted. During the public testimony portion -- portion of the meeting you will
be unmuted and, then, be able to comment. Please note that we cannot take questions
until the public testimony portion. If you have a process question during the meeting,
please, e-mail cityclerk@meridiancity.org and they will reply as quickly as possible. With
that let's begin with roll call. Madam Clerk.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Seal: All right. Thank you very much. So, the first item on the agenda is the adoption of
the agenda. We have Fairview Apartments, Application No H-2023-0001 and Ringneck
Place Subdivision, Application H-2023-0009, will be open for the sole purpose of
continuing to a regularly scheduled meeting. They will be opened for that purpose only.
So, we will not be taking testify -- or we will not be taking testimony on those applications
this evening. Can I get a motion to adopt -- I will get there tonight. Can I -- can I get a
motion to adopt the agenda as amended?
Wheeler: So moved.
Rivera: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor, please, say aye.
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April 20,2023
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No nays. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the April 6, 2023 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
Seal: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and we have one item on the
Consent Agenda, which is to approve the minutes of the April 6, 2023, Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting. Can I get a motion to accept the Consent Agenda as
presented?
Wheeler: So moved.
Smith: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the Consent Agenda. All in favor say aye.
No nays. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Seal: All right. At this time I would like to briefly explain the public hearing process. We
will open each item individually and begin with the staff report. Staff will report their
findings on how the item adheres to the Comprehensive Plan and Unified -- Unified
Development Code. After staff has made their presentation the applicant will come
forward to present their case and respond to staff comments. They will have 15 minutes
to do so. After the applicant has finished we will open the floor to public testimony. Each
person will be called on only once during the public testimony. The clerk will call the
names individually of those who have signed up on our website or in the back to testify in
advance. You will, then, be unmuted in Zoom or you can come to the microphones in
Chambers. Please state your name and address for the record and you will have three
minutes to address the Commission. If you have previously sent pictures or a
presentation for the meeting it will be displayed on the screen and you can run the
presentation from the pulpit up here. If you have established that you are speaking on
behalf of a larger group, like an HOA, where others from that group will allow you to speak
on their behalf you will have up to ten minutes. After all those who have signed up in
advance have spoken we will invite any others who may wish to testify. If you wish to
speak on the topic you may come forward in Chambers or if in Zoom please press the
raise hand button in the -- in the Zoom app. Or if you are only listening on a phone,
please, press star nine and wait for your name to be called. If you are listening on multiple
devices, such as a computer and a phone, please, be sure to mute the extra devices so
that we do not experience feedback. We can hear you clearly. When you are finished if
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April 20,2023
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the Commission does not have any questions for you you will return to your seat in
Chambers or be muted in Zoom. You will no longer have the ability to speak. And please
remember we generally do not call you back up. After all testimony has been heard the
applicant will be given another ten minutes to come up and -- and respond. When the
applicant is finished responding to questions and concerns we will close the public
hearing and the Commissioners will have the opportunity to discuss and hopefully be able
to make final decisions or recommendations to City Council as needed.
ACTION ITEMS
2. Public Hearing for Fairview Apartments (H-2023-0001) by Pivot North
Architecture, located at 1005 E. Fairview Ave.
A. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family development
consisting of 150 apartment units on 8.25 acres of land in the C-G
zoning district.
Seal: So, at this time I would like to open public hearing Item H-2023-0001 , Fairview
Apartments, for continuation to June 15th. I will take a motion on that.
Wheeler: Yes. So moved.
Seal: Some -- okay.
Wheeler: Do you want us to go ahead and make an official motion on that?
Seal: Yeah. I didn't make it into a motion, so --
Wheeler: Oh, you did not. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, Mr. Chair, I would like to make a
motion that Item No. H-2023-0001 is moved to the hearing date of --
Seal: June 15th.
Wheeler: -- June 15th.
Smith: Second.
Seal: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue Item No. H-2023-0001 to June
15th. All in favor please say aye. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
3. Public Hearing for Ringneck Place Subdivision (H-2023-0009) by
RiveRidge Engineering Company, located at 2315 E. Ustick (Parcel
No. S1105212448) and (Parcel No. S1105212449)
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April 20,2023
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A. Request: Annexation of 1.73 acres of land with an R-8 zoning
district.
B. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 9 residential single-family
attached building lots and 2 common lots.
Seal: Okay. Let me see if I can -- can I get a motion to continue item H-2023-0009 for
Ringneck Place Subdivision to May 18th?
Rivera: I make a motion to -- to move forward Item No. H-2023-0009 to be continued to
May 18th.
Wheeler: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to continue File No. H-2022-0009, Ringneck Place
Subdivision, to May 18th. All in favor please say aye. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
4. Public Hearing for Promenade Cottages Subdivision (H-2022-0013)
by Steve Arnold, A-Team Consultants, located at 403 E. Fairview Ave.
A. Request: Rezone approximately 6.819 and 0.326 acres of land
from the R-8 and C-G zoning districts to the R-40 (6.61 acres) and
C-G (0.535 acres) zoning districts.
B. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 30 single-family residential
lots, 5 multi-family lots, 2 commercial lots and 8 common lots on
7.64 acres of land in the requested R-40 and C-G zoning districts.
C. Request: Conditional Use Permit to construct a 90-unit, multi-family
development on approximately 2.8 acres in the requested R-40
zoning district.
D. Request: Conditional Use Permit to construct single-family,
detached dwellings on the 10 of the 30 single-family residential lots
in the requested R-40 zoning district.
E. Request: Conditional Use Permit to allow the existing, non-
conforming parking, landscaping and mobile home park to remain
as is for an extended period of time in the C-G and requested R-40
zoning districts.
Seal: All right. I would like to open File No. H-2022-0013, Promenade -- Promenade
Cottages Subdivision. We will begin with the staff report.
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April 20,2023
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Allen: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. The applications before you
tonight with this -- this request area rezone, a preliminary plat, and three conditional use
permit applications. This site consists of 7.64 acres of land. It's zoned R-8, medium
density residential, and C-G, general retail and service commercial, and it's located at
403 East Fairview Avenue. This property was annexed into the city back in 1969 without
a development agreement. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is
commercial for 2.12 approximate acres of the site and high density residential at 5.52
approximate acres. The northern portion of this property adjacent to Fairview Avenue is
zoned R-8 and C-C and is developed with two commercial buildings, a multi-tenant
building with retail and restaurant uses with Idaho Pizza, a paint store, Rodda Paint, and
associated parking. The proportion of the site directly to the south is a mobile home park
and further to the south is vacant undeveloped land, all zoned R-8. The applicant is
proposing a rezone of 7.15 acres of land from the R-8 and C-G zoning districts to the R-
40, which is 6.61 acres, and C-G, which is .54 acre zoning districts consistent with the
underlying future land use map designations of high density residential and commercial.
The rezone to C-G will remove the nonconforming status of the retail store in the R-8
district as such use is permitted in the C-G district. The mobile home park is a prohibited
use in the proposed R-40 district. A conditional use permit is proposed to extend the
nonconforming use until such time as the property redevelops at a minimum of four years.
The proposed multi-family residential development is a conditional use in the R-40 zoning
district and is subject to the specific use standards for such in the UDC. The proposed
single family attached dwellings are a principal permitted use and the single family
detached dwellings are a conditional use in the R-40 district. A preliminary plat is
proposed as shown consisting of 45 building lots, Thirty of those are single family
residential, five are multi-family and two are commercial building lots and eight common
lots on 7.64 acres of land in the R-40 and C-G zoning districts. A gross density of 20.51
units per acre is proposed overall in the residential portion of the development. The plat
is proposed to develop in three phases as shown. The single family residential on the
south end of the site is proposed to develop first with 30 single family residential attached
and detached dwellings at a gross density of 16.5 units per acre, with the multi-family
residential development second, with a total of 90 apartment units at a gross density of
28 units per acre, for an overall gross density of 28 units per acre in the residential portion
of the development and rebuild of the commercial area last shortly after the second phase.
The phasing plan is based on the type of loan the applicant has on the property. Because
the property is income producing, the loan will not allow the owners to disrupt the income
being made off the existing commercial buildings and the mobile home park. Once the
property is not encumbered by this loan condition the owner will move forward with phase
two providing market conditions warrant it. Phase three will follow shortly after. Due to
the financing and timing the applicant request -- requests an additional period of time of
approximately four to five years, instead of the standard two years, to obtain the city
engineer's signature on the second phase final plat. This will also allow ample time to
notice the existing residents of the mobile home park of the plan to redevelop the property.
Staff recommends the second phase final plat application is not allowed to be submitted
for a minimum period of four years from the date of approval of the preliminary plat to
allow residents of the mobile home park ample time to find other housing prior to
redevelopment. This will require at least one time extension to be obtained in order for
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April 20,2023
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the preliminary plat to remain valid. There are three existing access driveways via
Fairview, an arterial street. One for the retail paint store and two for the multi-tenant
building. The western access is proposed to be removed and the eastern accesses are
proposed to remain until redevelopment of that portion of the property occurs, as removal
at this time would negatively affect existing uses. Upon redevelopment of the commercial
portion of the site all access via Fairview shall cease and access should be provided from
Northeast 3rd Street, the lesser classification of the two streets in accord with UDC
standards and ACHD standards. There are nine existing access driveways via Northeast
3rd Street, a local street designated on the master street map as a collector street, two
for the commercial, one ingress-egress driveway for the mobile home park, and six
driveway accesses for individual mobile homes. The northern access via Northeast 3rd
Street is proposed to be removed as it's too close to the intersection and doesn't conform
to ACHD standards. The second access nearest Fairview is proposed to remain to serve
the existing commercial retail store and a new driveway access is proposed 30 feet to the
south of the aforementioned driveway as depicted on the site plan in alignment with the
driveway on the west side of 3rd. Due to the traffic conflicts that will likely result from the
two driveways so close together, staff -- staff recommends these two accesses are
combined and aligned with the driveway on the west side of 3rd in accord with UDC 11-
3A-3, which limits access points to collector streets. The existing driveway in alignment
with Gruber Avenue on the west side of 3rd is proposed to remain and be reconstructed
as a 30 foot wide curb return type driveway and has been approved by ACHD. The
remainder of the accesses are proposed to be closed. No access exists via Badley
Avenue, a local street along the southern boundary of the undeveloped portion of the site.
Two new accesses are proposed via Badley Avenue to the single family residential
portion of the development, which also provides connectivity to the multi-family residential
and commercial portions of the development. Private streets are proposed for internal
access to the proposed single family and multi-family dwellings. With the subdivision
cross-access and ingress-egress easement should be granted between the single family
residential and multi-family residential and commercial portions of the development via a
note on the final plat or a separate recorded agreement in accord with UDC 11-3A-3.
Alternative compliance to the off-street parking standards for single family dwellings,
which requires parking pads to be located in front of the garage to allow the parking pads
for the three bedroom units to be located as close as possible to the corresponding unit
was approved by the director. Additional right of way is required to be dedicated along
Fairview Avenue, but no improvements are required with this development, as Fairview
is listed in the Capital Improvement Plan to be widened from five to seven travel lanes
with on-street bike lanes between 2036 and 2040. With development the existing section
of Northeast 3rd Street is required to be reconstructed and the unimproved section
between East Gruber Avenue and East Badley Avenue constructed as a complete
collector street in accord with the master street map and in general conformance with the
city's downtown Meridian street cross-section master plan. Private streets are proposed
for internal access to the proposed single family and multi-family units for addressing
purposes. The pathways master plan depicts a ten foot wide multi-use pathway off site
along the west side of Northeast 3rd Street and along East Fairview Avenue on this site.
Internal pedestrian connections are required between the single family, multi-family and
commercial portions of the development. A 25 foot wide street buffer is required along
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April 20,2023
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Fairview and a 20 foot wide buffer is required along Northeast 3rd Street landscaped in
accord with UDC standards. Because the single family residential portion of the site is
below five acres in size at 2.7 acres, the minimum common open space and site amenity
standards do not apply. The southern portion of this project is within the Meridian
floodplain overlay district, zone AE, and will require a floodplain development permit. A
conditional use permit is proposed to construct a 90 unit multi-family development on
approximately 2.8 acres of land in the requested R-40 zoning district. Five three story
18-plex multi-family structures are proposed containing a mix of one and two bedroom
units, 45 of each, ranging from 712 to 1,278 square feet in size. Off-street parking is
provided in excess of the minimum standards with nine extra spaces. Nine of the surface
parking spaces do need to be covered in accord -- or in order to meet the minimum
standards for covered spaces. The amount of common open space proposed for the
development also exceeds the minimum standards. A minimum of .5 acre of common
open space is required. .94 of an acre is proposed, which is almost twice the minimum
required. A minimum of four site amenities are required, one from each category. The
applicant proposes a swimming pool, clubhouse, dog park, community garden and a tot
lot from the quality of life, open space and recreation categories. An additional amenity
is required from -- from the multi-modal category. Conceptual building elevations were
submitted for the proposed single family structures as shown and for the multi-family. The
single family cottages are all proposed to be two stories in height with two car garages,
while the multi-family apartment buildings are proposed to be three stories in height. The
clubhouse will be a single story in height. The applicant's narrative states the multi-family
buildings will use similar accents as the cottage units. A conditional use permit is
requested for the development of ten single family residential detached dwellings in the
requested R-40 zoning district. Typically single family residential uses are not a desired
use in the R-40 high density residential zoning district. However, they are allowed as a
conditional use. There are existing single family residential dwellings to the west across
Northeast 3rd Street and to the south across East Badley Avenue. The proposed single
family residential homes at a higher density of 16.5 units per acre will assist in providing
a transition to the multi-family residential apartments planned in the second phase of this
development and should be compatible with adjacent multi-family uses. For these
reasons staff is supportive of the request. A conditional use permit is requested to allow
the existing nonconforming parking, landscaping and mobile home park to remain as is
for an extended period of time until redevelopment occurs with the second and third
phases of the proposed development. The nonconforming use of a portion of the site as
a mobile home park and the parking and landscaping in the commercial portion of the
development will remain as is until the second and third phases of development
respectively, which will be approximately four to five years. The reason of the lengthy
request is so that the applicant may proceed with the development of the southern vacant
portion of the site with phase one, while allowing the residents of the mobile home park
adequate time to find other housing options prior to redevelopment of that portion of the
site with phase two. Redevelopment of the commercial portion of the site isn't proposed
until the third phase of development. The extended time period for redevelopment of the
mobile home park also accommodates the type of loan the applicant has on the property
and the income generating uses in the interim. The extended time period for the
commercial portion of the development where the nonconforming parking and
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April 20,2023
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landscaping are located will allow the Fairview Avenue road widening project to -- to be
completed. For these reasons staff is supportive of the applicant's request. No written
testimony was submitted on this application and staff is recommending approval with the
recommendation of a development agreement with the provisions in the staff report. Staff
will stand for any questions.
Seal: Okay. Thanks very much, Sonya. Would the applicant come forward. Good
evening, sir. We will need your name and address for the record, please.
Arnold: For the record my name is Steve Arnold. I'm with A-Team Land Consultants.
1785 Whisper Cove, Boise. 83709. And I will try to keep it as simple as possible. I think
I have been working on this for five years. Sonya's had it for the last three to four months
and I think she nailed everything that we are doing. Scroll down. So, the residential count
-- Sonya went over -- and the mobile home park and the densities. The comp plan -- that
we did add additional application, which was the alternative compliance and the private
road. Utilities are all in the adjacent roads. Apparently the Public Works frequents the
site because of issues in the mobile home park. So, we are hoping that we can get that
cleaned up with that phase of the development. We -- as requested the additional
covered space that --we are in agreement with that. This site has been modified so many
times I probably lost it in one of the revisions. We are asking -- the only issue that we are
really having with the staff report -- and it's not that we have issue with the condition -- we
have issue with the application of it and the funding -- is 3rd Street. Typically ACHD
requires half plus 12 and the city staff, which I -- I think it's a good idea -- is asking for it
to be a full street section. We would like to be reimbursed that other portion and, then,
we would like either the city or ACHD to step in, because I believe that we are going to
need additional right of way on the west side adjacent to some of the existing uses. The
one -- as staff would recommend -- or noted, we are correcting a -- a fairly big mess, not
just physically out there, but, you know, policy wise with the R-8 and the uses of
commercial in the R-8 and the mobile home within the R-8. So, we recognize this as
actually being a good thing and cleaning some problems up. Again, Sonya nailed the
timing. Again, the reason it's four years is because of the income producing nature of the
property. The bank won't let us modify that in order to develop that section. CC&Rs,
along with an HOA, will be provided for both the -- for the commercial, for the multi-family
and the residential or the single family portion. They will maintain the common open areas
and keep a -- a uniformity of development. Again, I think the only thing that we have got
with staff conditions is -- is 3rd Street. All the other conditions we read through, all the
other agency comments we can comply with. I'm going to go in and go quickly through -
- staff has presented most of our maps, so I -- the -- the one thing that -- I don't know that
it has been seen is the -- one additional amenity that we are doing is the bike lockers up
in the multi-family. That wasn't noted, but as stated earlier -- I mean we are providing
excess open space. The -- the idea is to get the feel of kind of a small little community
on, you know, roughly under three acres and provide pathways, amenities and other
things that make it feel more like a home. The units -- oh. Let me briefly touch on parking,
too. The parking -- we have -- have excess and the whole idea is because we have had
issues on other projects. One of the projects -- and I would invite everyone to go take a
look at it, because it's never been -- that was the first one done in Idaho and there are --
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April 20,2023
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these are cottage units and they do an attached and a detached like at a townhome feel
and they are a really unique product type. But this project is at, oh, Fairview and
Cloverdale area about a thousand feet west of Cloverdale. So, if you ever get a chance
to drive by there you can see the product type. And we had issue with parking, so in this
project we are proposing to do significantly additional. So, starting off in the multi-family,
the requirement's 158, we are providing 161 and we will add to that 81 covered -- I think
it's 90 that is required. Multi-family guest was required at nine. We are providing 15.
Cottages. We have got the 30 garage parking stalls and, then, 30 assigned and where
you see garages in front -- I'm sorry. Parking in front of the garages, that specific unit will
be assigned those specific parking stalls, so that you don't have someone else
theoretically using it to park and block them in. The cottages. Again, we are doing 30
required, 30 provided. But we are also providing an additional 20 for guest parking and
we think that will be beneficial for the development, because we won't get all the parking
on the streets. Commercial 33 is required and we have got 90. You have already seen
the landscape plan. As you can see we have got it pretty extensively landscaped for a
site this size. Here is showing you the extension of 3rd Street down to Badley. As you
can see there is going to be some things in our way and I -- I just don't think that we will
be able to keep the alignment without getting an additional right of way and if the city is
prepared or ACHD is prepared to go get the right of way, we can construct it with the
project and, then, we just ask for reimbursement of the west portion. Here is an idea of
our neighbor. He has got his -- his driveways that we will probably be messing up.
However, he circulates there. So, we don't necessarily want to be the bad guy. I'm going
to show you several images of the buildings as you can -- these are the existing ones that
I told you that's near the Cloverdale and Fairview. These -- although we are calling it a
private road, it's more of an alley access type product. You can see that we have got
extensive architecture work on the outside. They are really a cute unit. I will show you
some more here. This would be the -- how they would look facing 3rd Street. This is on
a public road right out in front. This image gives you kind of an idea. We have got a
townhouse type unit and a townhouse type unit and, then, a single family right in the
center. These were built on paseos. This would be kind of similar look, but a lot wider of
what we are proposing on the paseos along the parkways that we are doing in the center.
These were 20. 1 think the others that we are doing here are between 40 to 50. This is
a -- a 20 foot wide drive aisle. We are going to be doing roughly a 24 foot wide. So, this
will be quite a bit wider. But this is, essentially, the back of the buildings. Typical fencing,
if any. We fence around some of the units. And, then, this moves into -- this is a rough
image of what we envision for the multi-family. Colors aren't quite compatible, but we will
make that. Again, that's the only one -- in closing this is the only one thing that we would
like to either not do or have the agencies take the lead on it. So, with that I will stand for
any questions.
Seal: Commissioners, do we have any questions for the applicant? Or staff.
Wheeler: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
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Wheeler: This is a complicated piece of dirt, huh?
Arnold: I have never done so many applications on a seven acre piece. We have been
working on this for -- I think we came to Bill about five years ago and Joseph took it and,
then, like I said, Sonya just has had it over the last four months. But, yeah, it's
complicated.
Wheeler: I was just-- literally was starting to laugh as -- as -- as Sonya was going through
it. Like you have got a trailer park, you have got lean encumbrances and, then, on top of
it -- what the heck, why don't we just go ahead and add you in a floodplain. You know,
it's just like there is -- there is a lot that's going on on this piece of property. So, first off,
hats off for chewing on this thing for a while and trying to make something that's -- that to
-- to present here for it, so -- but one of -- one of my questions are -- yeah, one of my
questions is on the -- on the connectivity. I don't see a pathway that's going to the north
side to the commercial side that was talked about. I see the interconnectivity for the
properties and to the residential, but where would the pathways -- where are those at that
would take them up to the commercial spot?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Wheeler, we do -- it -- it's shown on this. For some
reason I lost it on my site plan. But we do show a pathway kind of connecting the
commercial right near the Idaho Pizza building. We -- and we -- as -- as staff
recommended and we agree with, we will add additional connectivities. I'm thinking that
perhaps even at the multi-family we could do some crosswalks along that area, kind of
like how we did in the cottages. So, I -- I agree we should add that.
Wheeler: Another question I have is I'm hearing all of these restrictions placed upon you
by the mortgagee; right? The lien holder; right?
Arnold: Uh-huh.
Wheeler: So, I'm -- I'm curious on -- if we do -- with these extensions is it going to be
enough time or will you possibly have to come back again and request another extension?
From what you are seeing on your time frame, development time frame, I mean just
phasing; right? We are just talking phasing right now. So, how you see this thing play
out with phasing, how you have to hold back a little bit before you -- before the trailer park
is demised, rebuilt; right? Because you got compaction and environmental and all that
kind of stuff you have to do. Is that enough time for you?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Wheeler, we hope so. I mean -- so, we have -- we
have tried to put the minimum there. I mean it -- it may take a little bit longer. If so, we
would end up being back in front of you asking for an extension.
Wheeler: Okay. Okay.
Arnold: But we think the -- the four to five year mark would work.
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Wheeler: Okay. Because right -- okay. Because right now -- staff, if I can ask just a
quick question. It sounds like to me like there is a -- there is already a four year plan for
the applicant to go ahead and develop and, then, he is requesting another four to five
year extension. Is that how I'm understanding it? Or -- I just want to make sure.
Allen: Chairman, Commissioner Wheeler, Commissioners, the preliminary plat is valid
for two years. Within that time period they have to obtain signature on the final plat by
the city engineer or request a time extension for up to two years.
Wheeler: Okay.
Allen: They will likely need two -- two time extensions probably for this if it happens within
the time period that they are estimating.
Wheeler: And if-- staff, if that's the case is there something that we can say provisionally
and -- if it gets recommended to -- to build that in already in our recommendation or is this
just something that's taken care of administratively?
Allen: City code.
Wheeler: City code.
Allen: As is.
Wheeler: Okay.
Allen: They were asking for that amount of time I believe probably maybe without
extensions, but I -- I can't change that. That's city code that they request a time extension.
Wheeler: Okay. Okay. I just don't want to -- I guess what I'm getting at is what if this
project gets going and he is seven --you know, 75 percent done and, then, were not given
an extension or he runs into some road block with the -- with something, all of a sudden
we got a project and it puts him up against -- pins him up against a wall. I'm just -- if --
you know, how do we navigate that or what would be something that we can do there, if
anything?
Allen: As long as they apply for their -- I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but as
long as they apply for their time extensions it -- it won't expire and as long as it's approved
by the -- the first time extension is approved by the director. Any subsequent time
extensions are approved by Council.
Wheeler: Okay. Okay. So, he can do multiple time extensions --
Allen: He can. Yes.
Wheeler: Okay. Okay.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
April 20,2023
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Allen: To remain valid and with each of those time extensions the city can place additional
conditions on the development. If there are any new city code provisions that go into
effect that affect this development we can keep the -- the project up to current code.
Wheeler: Okay. Okay. And also like if they want to see benchmarks to be reached or
whatever they can put that in conditionally or whatever they want on that.
Allen: Yes.
Wheeler: Okay. Okay. So -- so, it's -- so, Steve, just -- is that going to be something that
-- timeline wise I just want to make sure you are not going to get pinned up against a wall
or something like this, that that seems like that's going to work and -- all of that and you
feel comfortable with that?
Arnold: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Wheeler, yeah, we are --we are comfortable
with that. And this is a question for counsel is can this be put into a DA, so that the time
extensions aren't required that, you know, we essentially have four years on the second
plat, instead of the typical two year consecutive. We are -- as soon as the city -- if they
hopefully approve us, that's going to be -- I mean we are going to get going on the
cottages like ASAP, so I don't --
Starman: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission and our applicant, I would agree
with Sonya's comment a moment ago. So, we have -- the development agreement is a
contract and, then, we also, in addition to that, have the Unified Development Code, which
is law and law trump's contracts. So, the -- the UDC would prevail. We -- we need to
adhere to that provision that has the two year period with the extensions. Typically that -
- you know, we will assess that at the time, but that's not a difficult thing to accomplish.
It's fairly routine for us to extend preliminary plats as -- I don't think it's -- I don't want to -
- I don't want to say it's automatic, but it's certainly done on a frequent basis. So, I don't
think that's a huge issue. The very worst case to kind of address where you were going
to, Commissioner Wheeler-- the worst case I think would be the preliminary plat does not
get extended for some reason, in which case they probably had built phase one, but they
have not built phase two and phase three and they come back and apply for another
preliminary plat. So, that's probably the worst case scenario is that they have to apply,
again, for a preliminary plat for phase two and three. I don't think that's a likely scenario,
but that would be the worst case scenario that I -- I could envision.
Wheeler: Thank you.
Seal: Okay. Questions? Mr. Smith, go right ahead.
Smith: Mr. Chair. Question for staff. I was reading through the staff report. It looked like
there was a recommendation to require phase two not be started for six years after and
I think you said in the -- in the coverage that it's four years. I just want to make sure I'm
understanding right, if there is a discrepancy or something changed.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
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Allen: Chairman Seal, Commissioners, I actually issued a revised staff report that
changed that to the applicant's request of a minimum of four years. But you are correct
it initially had the six.
Smith: Thank you. Okay. That makes sense. And, then, second let's pretend that I'm
someone who is really bad with directions and it's been a long weekend. I'm not fully
understanding the -- the difference of opinions on that alignment. Would it be possible to
go back to that map -- Google Maps view? I just want to make sure I'm under -- so -- so,
my understanding -- and -- and -- and this is why I need some guidance -- is that 3rd
Street where -- it kind of turns -- if you are heading southbound it kind of turns right and,
then, left into that area and that's what the applicant is -- is proposing keeping and staff
is recommending moving that section to the -- that would be east -- moving eastward to
be in alignment. So, it's straight through on 3rd Street. Is that correct? Is that the
disagreement there or am I missing something? I'm -- I'm -- and this is totally me. I'm --
I'm -- got oatmeal brain today.
Allen: Chairman, Commissioner, the applicant is concerned that additional right of way
may be needed from the property to the west, so they are asking the city and -- he is
asking the city and ACHD to get involved to possibly acquire more right of way if needed
for that street section. Otherwise, yes, it would shift a little bit to the east.
Smith: Thank you.
Seal: And I -- I have a similar kind of follow-up question on that is that -- I mean I -- I don't
remember reading anywhere that that was going to be a requirement of it, that, you know,
additional right of way is going to be required as part of this application. So, is there --
mean is -- is this one of those situations where something's been built where it shouldn't
have or is this literally one of those where we are probably going to have to go and try
and get more right of way or -- or do we know that yet?
Allen: Chairman, I'm -- I'm not sure. That's an ACHD question really.
Seal: Okay.
Parsons: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, if I can just elaborate on -- on the
rationale behind complete street versus --with first phase and then -- you are correct. It's
-- well, Sonya and I -- staff is working with ACHD to figure that out as we transition to City
Council. So, I just want to make that clear on the record. We have -- we have
communicated -- we have been in contact with them consistently on trying to get this
nailed down before tonight's hearing and I don't think you need to hold up the hearing
because of it. What we are trying to do is balance two documents. We have a downtown
streetscape section that is our preferred, but it stops at Carlton and, then, we have a 3rd
Street alignment study that was adopted many years ago that speaks to the design of the
road. So, what we are trying to do is take both of those documents and keep in spirit with
both of those documents and ensure that we have the aesthetic and the street section
that we want to see through 3rd Street, because this will be a major corridor through our
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April 20,2023
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downtown as we transition and -- and grow in Meridian. So, we have big plans for this --
this area -- for 3rd Street for -- it's almost like a Meridian Road. It's on the opposite side
of Main Street to get people in and out of downtown. What we can't do right now -- and
because of the phasing that the applicant's proposed, is -- and with the addition -- with
the trailer park staying in, we can't lose -- we can't do anything on that side of the road
yet until phase two. So, that will primarily stay the way you see it now until phase two.
With phase one ACHD already has 60 feet of right of way for that and so what we have
done is we are trying to get the applicant to, one, build a complete street, because we
don't know the timing of when that's going to occur if we don't get it now, because it
doesn't exist. The right of way is there, but there is nothing built. So, we wanted to make
sure if we have a development now, we want to make sure we have a complete street
with a ten foot multi-use pathway. The street section that we are asking to do will still
work within the 60 feet of right of way. We are just asking the applicant to potentially put
the five foot sidewalk in a pedestrian easement within his 25 --within his landscape buffer
-- 20 foot buffer that's required along 3rd Street and we are hoping that that can still work
as part of his plan and no additional right of way will be needed. But we -- again, we don't
have all those answers yet and if it does, then, potentially just to --to the applicant's point,
additional right of way may have to come from his site, not the western site. Just to kind
of put a finer point on that. But I think it may be able to work, but I don't know. Steve has
worked at ACHD, so he's pretty familiar with their policies over there. So, I -- I think he
knows he can do that and -- I believe he can do it in a pedestrian easement, still achieve
at least the -- the travel lanes and the -- the streetscape and the -- the landscaping and
everything we want within the existing right of way.
Seal: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the collaboration on that. But one of the things that
-- if you can explain a little bit more about the provisions of the loan and how, you know,
four year time frame isn't going to land you in the same spot. Meaning that, you know, if
it's based on the viability or the -- the fact that that makes money for you, how are they
not going to come back at that point in time and say it's still making money, you still can't
do it.
Arnold: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, I should elaborate on that. So, the timing on the loan --
they are fixed with this certain bank for so many years, which started some time ago. So,
they can't refinance until -- and I think it -- it was approximately six years -- probably two
years ago since we have been working on it. But, you know, time has lapsed now. So,
we believe that within four years they will be able to refinance the loan and they will have
another lender on it on the project. Probably the same one that will do the construction
financing for that phase. Phase two.
Seal: And if they can't?
Arnold: If they can't refinance?
Seal: Right.
Arnold: I don't see that as being a problem. I mean there is a ton of equity on the property
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
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as is. It should be an easy project to finance.
Seal: Okay. I mean the things being what they are, you know -- short story. I had a
house built by one of the best, most reputable builders in the valley and in between the
time we decided to build the house and when they finally built it, they went out of business
within three months of building our house and it was a horrible mess. So, things happen.
So, I just want to make sure that we are prepared for that contingency should, you know,
things not go the way that -- that we are thinking. I mean I -- and, staff, I don't know if you
can help or even Kurt can jump in here on how we can formulate something here that
protects us in a -- or not protects us, but makes sure that we are doing what's best for the
city, knowing that there is something like, you know, the refinance of the loan.
Starman: And, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I'm going to ask for some
assistance from our-- my planning colleagues as well, but my recollection is that the CUP
for the nonconforming use, which is phase two, essentially, that has a four year time frame
attached to it. Does it expire in four years? Okay. Bill is shaking his head yes. So, if
that's the case that is -- I'm not sure if I would characterize it as a protection, but I would
say that the reason that the mobile home park will continue to exist during this interim
time frame is because -- or if it -- if the Commission recommends and the Council
approves, it will -- it will stay in place, because it has a conditional use permit for a
nonconforming use and if that CUP has a four year -- four year sunset date on it, then,
that will call all this to question at that point in time, because the CUP will expire and the
use will no longer be allowed. Now, that begs the question of how would you go about
enforcement and what would happen and I'm probably not prepared to delve into that this
evening, but the CUP for the nonconforming use provides a tool to revisit the issue at that
point in time.
Seal: Okay. That answers one of my other questions, which is good. Bill, go ahead.
Parsons: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, right now the way we have it structured
in the staff report is a DA provision. So, at the end of that four years it -- it -- it goes away
or he comes back and amends the agreement to extend it. We do not have an explicit
condition that says this shall cease in four years, but that's what you are here tonight -- if
that's something that you want to add that extra level of protection -- it is a CUP and I
think the applicant would have -- would be in agreement with that, that at the end of the
four years that they -- they cease -- the use needs to cease and you can add that as a
condition of approval. Or -- or apply for another extension.
Seal: Okay.
Parsons: That's -- that's --
Starman: Mr. Chairman?
Parsons: -- within your purview tonight.
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April 20,2023
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Starman: And, Mr. Chairman, I would say probably either/or works. A provision in the
development agreement that has a four year termination date is probably -- works in the
same way. You also could add a sunset date to the CUP and use sort of a belt and
suspenders approach, which -- and that would be consistent. If you had a DA provision
that said four years and a CUP that said four years, that would make some sense. So,
that's something the Commission could consider. But either way would work. A DA
provision would work. A CUP sunset date would work. Or a combination of both.
Seal: Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much. Can you elaborate a little bit on the utility
issues that would be remedied?
Arnold: Mr. Chairman. Yeah. There is the -- basically they would all be ripped out. The
-- the mobile home right now is on kind of a -- a weak system. It was probably not to
code, nor ever inspected. So with phase two we will be tearing all that stuff out.
Seal: Okay. But there is nothing that's going to be connected right now that would remedy
that?
Arnold: Nothing right now. Correct.
Seal: Okay. Just wanted to understand that a little bit better. That's all I have got. Does
anybody else have more questions? No? Hearing none -- thank you very much, sir. And
we will go ahead and take some public testimony.
Arnold: Thanks.
Seal: Thank you.
Hall: Mr. Chair, we have no one signed up online, but we do have a Craig Peterson
signed up to speak. That is all.
Seal: No Mr. Peterson? Do we have anybody else in the audience that would like to
come up and speak? Raise your hand. Come on up. I know somebody out there wants
to. No? We do actually appreciate any comments that anybody has to make, so --
mean we -- we do look at every piece of public testimony and listen heartily. Nobody
online is raising their hand that I can see, so -- oh, did I miss somebody? Oh. Come on
up. Just give us your name and number -- or sorry. Give us your name and -- and
address.
Warner: Want my number? Okay.
Seal: Sorry. Gosh. Back to college. Name and address, please.
Warner: I'm Kellee Jean Warner. My address is 435 East State Avenue here in Meridian.
And my question? Okay. My question is this seems like a pretty neat development there.
I wondered how that affects the properties around? I don't know if that's the right question
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
April 20,2023
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for this place, but that's my question, kind of how that affects the properties around. Like
how it would affect my property that's just a few blocks away. How that affects all the
other homes, whether it's value or just -- what does that mean for me as a homeowner in
the area and this coming so close to my home?
Seal: Just as far as the -- the multi-family development that's going to come in or the
replacement of the mobile home park or kind of all of it?
Warner: Yeah. All of it. Yeah.
Seal: Okay. And -- and I think that's -- I mean I don't know that anybody's going to know
that a hundred percent, but there is going to be good and bad to anything really.
Warner: Okay.
Seal: All right. Thank you very much.
Warner: Yeah.
Seal: Anybody else? Last chance. Okay. Would the applicant like to come back up?
Arnold: I really have nothing to rebut, but just thank staff for the years of work that they
have had us on this and I can say -- besides doing consulting work in the development
side, we also do real estate on the new construction and land side and from a real estate
perspective to clean up that mobile home park and to put in some single family and
townhomes down there that will have some pretty good value, it will boost comps within,
you know, probably a thousand foot radius. So, it -- it -- it will be a good thing for the
neighborhood. I'm not sure if the Commission has driven out by there, but it's not the
prettiest site. It's probably one of the uglier portions in Meridian.
Seal: Okay. I -- I do have a question on that. Is there -- I mean as far as the ownership
of it and are -- are there -- is there an HOA type mechanism to that that would -- and the
reason I ask is because my concern is as the -- the mobile home park starts to age out
-- meaning that, you know, we get closer to that four year mark, the residents know that
they are -- you know, they have to leave sometime. I have seen in other places where
that gets pretty ugly pretty fast. So, I just want to make sure that, you know, that's
something that's been thought of and there is some kind of mechanism in place that can
help with that.
Arnold: Mr. Chairman, yeah. If you drive by there you are going to probably see that
some of the residents are just going to leave everything and we will keep the trash cleaned
up as that occurs. It's -- it's in our best interest not to have it -- a dump -- dump site either
and we will likely have to take all of the mobile homes -- or not all, but a good majority of
them to the trash. I mean there is -- there is some really rough looking things out there.
Seal: Okay. Will that happen as they are vacated?
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April 20,2023
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Arnold: Yes, we can do that.
Seal: Okay. Is that -- and, Bill, I don't know -- is that something we can put as a provision
for this that as they are emptied they are removed within a certain time frame or-- I know
trying to enforce something like that's impossible. I just want to make sure we are doing
our due diligence on it.
Parsons: Yeah. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I think that's doable. I would -
- I would leave it-- you know, we can add it as a CUP condition that the site be maintained
and orderly and that any dilapidated trailers left on the site would be removed within X
amount of days or however you want to phrase that. But we can --
Seal: Okay.
Parsons: -- give us something and we can try to wordsmith it as we transition there.
Seal: Perfect. I was really hoping you would say that. Appreciate that. All right. Well,
thank you. Commissioners, do we have any further questions? Oh. Go ahead,
Commissioner Wheeler.
Wheeler: Yeah, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Within the three phases do we have cross-
access agreements between the different phases and the different building areas or
different sections?
Arnold: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Wheeler, as a condition in the staff report
they are asking us to do the cross-access --
Wheeler: Okay.
Arnold: -- and, again, it's in our best interest, especially when we are losing a driveway
on 3rd Street to the commercial. So, yeah, the -- the -- all of the private roads they are
platted on a -- a common lot and, then, cross-access is granted through that, along with
all the utilities that are within that.
Wheeler: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you.
Seal: Any other questions? None? All right. Thank you very much, sir. Appreciate it.
Arnold: Thank you.
Seal: And with that I will take a motion to close the public hearing for File No. H-2022-
0013.
Smith: So moved.
Wheeler: Second.
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April 20,2023
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Seal: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for File No. H-2022-
0013. All in favor, please, say aye. No nays. Motion passes. The public hearing is
closed.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: Who would like to go first? Go right ahead.
Smith: This is just some -- some food for thought. I -- I don't -- I don't feel strongly about
this one way or the other. Just thinking about that -- that 3rd Street discussion and
extension, I -- I don't know -- I don't know how comfortable I am requiring something like
that without knowing the right of way and -- and -- and, you know, the legal and financial
kind of implications of that, so I don't -- and maybe this should have been a question
around, you know, kind of what that could look like and -- and how that might affect --
would it -- how -- how adverse of an effect that would be on the -- the developers or, you
know -- you know, what that would look like kind of best and worst case scenario. That's
just something that I'm -- I'm -- I'm still kind of kicking around. I don't really feel super
strongly about it, but there is -- there is some -- I don't love that uncertainty there at the
moment is all.
Seal: Yeah. I agree with that. It would be good to have more of that. I mean I'm -- I'm
sure city staff is working diligently on that to try and figure out the answer to it. It's
sometimes hard, because when things come through here, especially as a recommending
body, it's difficult, because we don't necessarily want to hold things up in the process, but
I, myself, I'm not -- I dislike greatly when things go to City Council just to come back to
us. So, I don't know that this is -- this would be something that would have to rebound
like that, but definitely has the -- the potential to do that. One of the -- I mean -- and --
and I will just speak to the -- to the site and the layout and the -- you know, kind of what
this looks like in the future. I -- I do like that there is a four year halt, basically, on, you
know, removing the -- the -- the -- the mobile home park in there. You know, I mean I'm
sure there is people in there that are going to appreciate that, too, you know, and -- and
there is generally a stigma around them, but I understand that, you know, housing in
Meridian is incredibly expensive, as it is in the valley, so I'm just happy to see that that's
in there. That said, I do want to -- I would like to see something -- you know, something
-- I don't get to make the motion, but if I were to make the motion, you know, basically it's,
you know, a provision that sunsets the -- the CUP at the same time as the DA provision.
So, we are kind of double covered in that and that, you know, also we provision it that
basically any abandoned mobile homes are removed within a certain amount of time. You
know, let -- let the staff work with the applicant to figure out what that might be, just so
that we are -- we make sure that, you know, as -- as the properties are -- are left or
abandoned that, you know, basically we have a mechanism in there to keep -- keep
moving towards cleaning that up for when that does get phased in. On the -- I actually --
I mean for what the property is I kind of like the layout of this, the way that it transitions.
The fact that the clubhouse is kind of centrally located or will be centrally located is nice.
The pathways in here are very nice. I like the -- the interconnectivity of it for certain. I'm
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
April 20,2023
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sure as the city continues to grow that's going to actually be great for the folks that live in
here. The only thing I don't like -- and you will -- you will rarely, if ever hear me say this,
is the pathway that's behind the -- the houses that are on the -- the southeast -- is that
right? Yep. On the southeast. I don't like that in there. So, to me that kind of sets it up
to where you are going to have people -- kind of makes it to where it's, you, know, a blind
alley in there, not a lot of observability. So, you know, hopefully nothing nefarious
happens back there, but if it does it's really really hard for public to view it. So, I'm not --
I -- I don't -- I like the grass area back there, but I definitely am not a big fan of the -- of
the pathway that goes back through there. I think that might be troublesome in the future,
so I don't know if that negates as far as that being an amenity or anything along those
lines, I just -- I think that's a safety concern that may just be me, may just be my opinion,
but I -- for -- for me I think that's a safety concern. But the rest of it I -- again, I -- I like
what it's going to be in the future. I wish we could get there a little differently, but,
obviously, we can't. In-fill properties like this are really really hard. So, I'm -- I'm in favor
of it, you know, as it stands and I -- I do hope that we can get to -- and, you know,
Commissioners, if there is something in here where you feel like, you know, we -- we
absolutely need to know what's going on with 3rd Street before we move forward, you
know, please, indicate that as well. I will give some time to you guys to chat about it.
Rivera: Yes, Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go ahead.
Rivera: Again, first of all, thank you to developers and staff for all the time spent on this
property. I think the end result will be a -- will be a nice, you know, addition to the city
and to the residents here in Meridian. I -- I agree with the question mark on 3rd Street.
-- I think that's, you know, a question mark there. Overall I like the -- the flow of -- of
what's being proposed in that tight space there. I did see that -- that walkway in the
southeast corner as well, so I -- I observed that earlier, but hoping with -- I don't know,
maybe some proper lighting or-- or something that it doesn't affect too much would create
more safety than -- than -- than not and the only other thing, too, I just wanted to say just
-- just from -- from my experience and I -- I don't foresee either any kind of a, you know,
problem with refinancing this property, just based on, you know, once you create a -- I
can see that the -- the equity in there I can see that there is -- of course I don't have the
numbers, but once you build out phase one it only makes it more attractive for -- for -- for
financing from any financial institution to grow and -- and, you know, when we do
appraisals -- appraisals you get the as is, at completion, and at stabilization, you know,
values. So, I think for the most part financial institutions use at completion and -- and
their value will help with the -- with the refinancing here.
Seal: Okay. Thank you.
Wheeler: Mr. Chair, I'm ready to make a motion if we are good with that.
Seal: Commissioner Stoddard, do you have anything to add?
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
April 20,2023
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Stoddard: I do not.
Seal: Okay. All right. Commissioner Wheeler, if you would like to go right ahead.
Wheeler: You bet. Complicated property and excited to see something clean up. This
is great. If I'm looking at the right one. After consideration -- after considering all staff,
applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to the City Council of File
No. H-2022-0013 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of April 20th, 2023,
with the following modifications: Number one. That the CUP sunset at the same time as
the DA provision. Number two. That the southeast pathway is not required. And number
three. That the trailers that are vacant at the beginning of phase two be removed within
45 days and if there are more than five that is extended to 90 days.
Seal: Got a second?
Stoddard: Second.
Seal: A question for you, Bill -- for Bill. Is -- is that too defined?
Parsons: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, I -- I was hoping you would just say
debris -- trailers and debris or something to that effect, but --
Wheeler: Okay.
Parsons: -- 45 and 90 days, is -- it's -- it's spot on in our opinion. That's easy -- that's
easy to understand and enforce when you have that.
Wheeler: Okay.
Parsons: I would presume you mean calendar days as well.
Wheeler: Yes. That would be -- I actually had written down calendar days and didn't
state that. So, yes, it would be trailers and their corresponding debris will be removed
within 45 calendar days or if there are more than five -- more than five vacant trailers that
that would be extended to 90 days.
Seal: Does the second still stand?
Stoddard: Yes. Second still stands.
Seal: All right.
Starman: And, Mr. Chairman, I just -- I'm certain this is part of the motion. I just want to
get this on the record, that -- because we actually have three CUPs before you tonight.
So, I just wanted to make it clear that I think the -- the maker of the motion intended that
the -- the sunset date on the CUP is referencing the CUP for the nonconforming use, not
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April 20,2023
Page 22 of 30
the other two CUPs. Does that make sense?
Wheeler: Yes, counsel, that's correct.
Starman: Okay.
Seal: Second still stands with that?
Stoddard: Yes.
Seal: Okay. So, it has been moved and seconded that we recommend approval of File
No. H-2022-0013 with the aforementioned modifications. All in favor, please, say aye.
Opposed nay? All right. Motion carries. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
5. Public Hearing for Noodles and Company at Ten Mile (H-2022-0087)
by Chipman Design Architecture, Inc., located at 3103 W. Milano Dr.,
near the northeast corner of N. Ten Mile Rd and W. McMillan Rd.
A. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a new approximate 2,200
square foot quick serve restaurant with a drive-through, located
within 300 feet of an existing drive-through facility, residential
district and existing residence.
Seal: And with that we will open File No. H-2022-0087 for Noodles and Company at Ten
Mile and we will begin with the staff report.
Hersh: Good evening, Mr. Chair and Commissioners. The applicant is here to present
their project for Noodles. They have submitted a conditional use permit and alternative
compliance, which Commission is needing to act on. The development consists -- or the
site consists of 0.63 acres of land, zoned C-G, and it's located at 3103 West Milano Drive.
History on the property. There is a development agreement that governs the property.
The Comprehensive Plan FLUM designation is commercial and the summary of the
request is there is a conditional use permit request for a new approximate 2,515 square
foot quick serve restaurant with a drive-through located within 300 feet of an existing drive
through facility to the south and residential use to the east. Currently -- that's currently
under construction, which require -- requires the conditional use permit per the UDC. And
the proposed drive through is not a traditional drive through, but a pick-up lane for pre-
made online orders by phone -- online orders by the app and by phone only. The drive
through does not contain a menu board or speakers for traditional ordering. Customers
select a time at which their food will be available at the pick-up window, allowing for a
more efficient method for customers to pick up their food. Any change to the proposed
use will require a modification to the conditional use permit. There are also a number of
vehicle dominated uses to the south, a vehicle washing facility and fuel sales facility, but
they did not require CUP approval. They are specific uses that are principally permitted
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April 20,2023
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in the C-G zoning district. However, the nature of the nearby uses are vehicle dominated,
similar to that of the drive through, and staff has taken this into account when making its
recommendation to the Commission. The proposed drive through has a one way drive
aisle that circles the proposed building and leads to the shared drive aisle and parking
lot. The site plan depicts plenty of queuing for vehicles, which should be sufficient for the
proposed use as a pick-up only drive- through and the stacking lane is a separate lane
from the circulation lanes needed for access and parking and allows plenty of space for
vehicles to stack. The proposed hours of operation will be Sunday through Saturday from
10:00 to 10:00 p.m., which meets the requirements for the C-G zoning district when
abutting a residential district. Access. There is one driveway access proposed to the site
via the shared east-west driveway along the east boundary of the site. This access is a
shared access for all the properties -- properties within the commercial subdivision that
front on the abutting arterial streets. The senior living facility does not take access from
the shared driveway. The shared driveway connects to both Ten Mile Road south of the
subject site and also to Milano Drive north of the site. Street buffer landscaping is
including and -- including a sidewalk along North Ten Mile Road was installed with
development of the overall subdivision. The submitted landscape plans show this buffer
remaining as it currently exists and the parking for the building is based off the 2,515
square feet. That's requiring a minimum of ten parking spaces and the applicant is
proposing 14, which exceeds the UDC minimums. Alternative compliance is requested
to deviate from the parking lot landscaping, which requires a five foot wide landscape
buffer adjacent to the southern driveway due to the limitation of the narrow lot size. The
applicant has redesigned the site in an effort to retain the pick-up window -- included the
properties to the north to demonstrate how they would integrate with each other in regards
to the landscape buffer separation with the bank. The applicant is adding an additional
two feet of landscaping on the Noodle side of the property line. This allows the drive aisle
to remain at 25 feet wide along the southern boundary to accommodate the required
escape lane. The perimeter landscape buffer between Noodles and the bank will result
in a ten foot wide buffer, meeting the intent of the UDC code. The applicant is proposing
additional shrubs in the landscape buffers along the north and west sides of the site and
based on this analysis the director was supportive of the request for the alternative
compliance. The building elevations -- the applicant has submitted conceptual building
elevations for the proposed restaurant with a drive through. The building elevations depict
aluminum siding, stucco finish with expansion joints, CMU brick and aluminum window
system and the final design of the structure will be required to comply with our design
standards in the architectural standards manual. There is no written testimony for this
project and staff does recommend approval with the conditions in the staff report and that
concludes staff's report tonight on this. I stand for any questions.
Seal: Thank you much. Would the applicant like come forward.
Pedroza: My name is Dieter Pedroza. I'm with the architect of record, Chipman Design
in 1350 East Touhy Avenue, Des Plaines, Illinois. On behalf of Noodles and Company.
So, the -- the intent of this design was to restructure and Ms. Hersh has been very helpful
in communication on how we can get that accomplished and the first hurdle that we have
gotten -- not only here, but in other locations is our pick-up window that was actually
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April 20,2023
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developed during COVID with the intent of not using the inside of this space, but doing
everything through mobile app, through online ordering, in and out, in and out. So, the
concern for the stacking was obviously brought up right up ahead. What we did is actually
we flipped the initial design that we had to have the pickup window on the south side to a
lot for the hundred foot stacking. But it's pretty straightforward as far as the design itself
and having potentially that double escape lane on the south end of the building should
we foresee any issues. But the way it's worked at other locations it's literally to the window
at the time, pick up, there is no transactions of -- of monies currencies, nothing, it's just
pick up order and out. So, even if we did do a stacking on there, worst case scenario,
you would look at about ten cars that could easily stack through there without causing
any issue with the adjacent parking to the dentist and to the bank below. Like pretty much
the intent is to have this place built here. So, we are -- we are doing our best and we
are trying to make sure that -- obviously we have looked through the report and every
item that is noted on there that will state should comply that is our intent. Going back to
the design guidelines, we will make adjustments to ours to comply with that once we do
apply.
Seal: Okay. Thank you much. Commissioners, do we have any questions for the
applicant? Commissioner Smith?
Smith: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Yep.
Smith: I -- I'm trying to put on my -- my City Council cap for a second and try to think
through some of the things that I have seen similar -- excuse me -- similar types of
developments looked at and -- and one thing that kind of popped out to me is -- is the
calling out some -- occasionally the -- the -- sorry. In the staff report it calls out the local
vehicle use dominant businesses and other uses, as well as, you know, this dentist office
here. You know, can expect also like you are saying -- kind of in and out nature, some -
- some reasonable vehicle traffic flow. Am I assuming correctly that this -- like other
Noodles and Company, there still will be a seated aspect to this?
Pedroza: Mr. Commissioner, that is correct. So, there is a seated aspect. The majority,
based on when we look at strategically from other locations, is there is a seating portion,
but what we have noticed as a trend for a lot of Noodles is the drive-through portion has
kind of maintained itself after COVID itself. So, even after COVID there is a heavy usage.
So, when we could have easily omitted the pick-up window and done just a -- a parking -
- no pickup window, but Noodles' intent is that a good part of the revenue is that pick-up
window. So, we wanted to maintain that pick-up window without causing any issues with
the adjacent businesses. But there is still seating on the inside and there is a proposed
patio seating as well.
Smith: Okay. Thank you. So, with that -- Mr. Chair. Sorry. With that my -- my thought
is specifically kind of this illustration here of all the parking on one side, building on another
side, and I don't see at least illustrate any kind of clear path of connectivity between the
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April 20,2023
Page 25 of 30
two. Seems like it's just kind of a drive aisle and, then, you park and you cross -- you go
across it. Was there any kind of contemplation of some design, be it striping or some
kind of thing, to -- to guide people in a kind of safe path to this.
Pedroza: So, the original design when we did do the layout was very similar as far as
intent of the dentist location. So, we did have parking allocated in front of the building.
Obviously, our ADA spots were initially there, but because of the constraints of the
narrowness of the space we remove that part and all the parking is on there. But
intentionally, once we do the design, the two ADA spots --there would be a gradient going
from the ADA spots and the middle space between the two ADAs would have a gradient
to lead individuals to the store, because that's exactly -- I don't know if I can zoom in on
this, but we do have an ADA compliant curb indicated. So, we would actually have striping
from that ADA section to the sidewalk.
Smith: Okay. Thank you.
Pedroza: Thank you.
Seal: Anything to follow up?
Smith: No. That -- that's just -- you know, wanting to make sure that there is, you know,
with -- with the -- the vehicle kind of heavy usage that there is -- you know, we are -- we
are designing it safely so someone doesn't come shredding out from picking up their
Noodles and Co and, you know, risk an accident or something, because someone's
walking too close to the -- the exit drive aisle.
Seal: Right. The only question I have is will there be a bike rack?
Pedroza: Yes.
Seal: Okay.
Pedroza: There is a bike rack and it will be -- actually, what we did is we went on -- on
Google Maps and we looked at other locations to see what they were implementing and,
of course, that's one of the items that was mentioned on the report and that's something
that we would modify and we would adjust based on guidelines.
Seal: Okay. That's -- that's good, because I have a -- I have a 12 year old that can't wait
to ride our bikes there and eat, so --
Pedroza: Actually before coming here I went to the site just to look at the site to see how
it's going just to get an in-person visualization of how wide the space is. But the -- the
bike -- the bike rack we had is usually one that we have used at other locations, but, yes,
we will modify our plans in accordance with the guidelines.
Seal: Thank you. Is that it?
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Wheeler: Mr. Chair? So, is it David? Is that what you said your first name is?
Pedroza: Dieter.
Wheeler: I'm sorry?
Pedroza: Dieter.
Wheeler: Dieter.
Pedroza: It's like Peter, but with a D.
Wheeler: Okay. Very good. Thanks, Dieter. So, it looks like on the -- going back to this
pick-up window, coming around, you know, on the north side, swinging by on the west
and, then, obviously, the exchange happens on the south side where they would pick up
their food. But, like you said, there is no monetary consideration or anything like that
that's given at that juncture, it's just more or less here is my order number, however that's
done to confirm, and they pick it and go; right? And, then, as they drive out it looks like
they could cut and go north right past the building, but will there be -- but there is no direct
access that way; right? So, do they just continue to kind of go -- kind of jog just a little bit
to the south and, then, hit the main road? Is that what's going to be encouraged?
Pedroza: Correct. And we could also have -- if -- if the city would like -- stop signs and
directional arrows on the road as well, if that would help. I know we had -- it's a bit of a
-- of a jog between the building and that curb. Also we can definitely indicate an arrow
-- directional arrow to the -- what is that? That's the south. Yeah. Because that's also
the other concern was the location is that main entrance for not only the proposed
Noodles, but the dentist and the bank itself.
Wheeler: Yes. But from what I'm seeing, based upon this drawing here, that there is no
access -- if someone was to turn and go due north and cut right in front of the Noodles
building, go right in front of the bank, that they would not be able to access a way to get
back onto Ten Mile that way; is that correct?
Pedroza: No. That is correct. Yeah.
Wheeler: Okay.
Pedroza: So, mine looks a little light, but it's pretty much a U bend.
Wheeler: Okay. That's -- that's what I was seeing, because that would -- that could
propose some definite constraints. Yeah. Exactly. Just like that. Okay.
Pedroza: Yeah. That would be great to be able to have that arrowed or something like
that or however that needs to be for safety concerns as -- as other commissioners have
said, so in -- in other locations, again, goes back to the striping on the ground. We have
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April 20,2023
Page 27 of 30
-- we have done striping -- hazard striping where people are not supposed to walk, so we
could put hazard striping wider. Obviously we also put, you know, do not enter signs and
put directional arrows for the entrance to the pick-up window.
Wheeler: Excellent.
Seal: Any other questions?
Smith: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go ahead.
Smith: Just one thing I want to make sure we cover. Is there anything in the staff report
-- I noticed there are a couple of small recommendations in the staff report, like a -- a sign
watching out for-- watch out for pedestrians, some things like that. Is there anything you
have any concerns with with those recommendations?
Pedroza: On our end? No. After looking at the report not at all. I mean I understand the
concern, because it is, again, the drive aisle bending around. So, we will definitely comply
and if there is any further suggestions from the Planning Department should not be an
issue on Noodles, then, to comply with that and make it look visually appealing, but also
cautionary to individuals.
Seal: Okay. Any further questions?
Smith: Mr. Chair, I have a motion ready.
Seal: Well, we are not quite ready for that -- not quite ready for that yet, but -- but we will
make -- but we will make that part -- I was going to say we are going to make the 7:30 so
hold on. Since there is nobody left online and there is nobody left in Chambers, we really
have no public -- public testimony portion to this. So, if there is anything else you want to
add before we close the public testimony?
Pedroza: No, not at all. Just hoping to move forward.
Seal: Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Pedroza: Thank you all.
Seal: Does anybody else have -- oh, wait. Need a motion to close the public hearing for
File No. H-2022-0087.
Rivera: So moved.
Stoddard: Second.
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April 20,2023
Page 28 of 30
Seal: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for H-2022-0087.
All in favor please say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: Does anybody have anything that they want to bring up before a motion is made?
Wheeler: I would -- I would just like to take the next nine minutes and just -- I'm just
kidding about that. No, I -- I think this is a great -- I think this is a great plan and it's going
to be a great idea. I like the concept of them doing the pick-up and it's all mobile app
ordered online and so that way that queuing line should just actually move pretty quick,
even like quicker than like a normal fast food place. I like that. And I think if they put in
some of the controls or direction that would encourage people not to cut in front -- back
of the Noodles, but, you know, to move through around that side, just because, you know,
they may be looking at their phone, their food and they are going to get hungry and start
eating and just to be able to have some sort of direction in that side, I think that's going to
-- that's going to be great honestly. And, then, also doing -- it was also stated earlier
about the directional across the middle of it, just the gradient there. That would be --
that's fantastic. So, yeah, looking forward to it.
Seal: Okay. Anybody else?
Rivera: I will just -- I will just -- I will just add -- it seems like that's where everybody is
going. I think it's -- we had one a couple weeks ago or last -- about the same concept
with, you know, order with the app. So, I -- I'm just glad that there is enough room there,
because, you know, people are still learning that process, so there is going to be people
showing up, probably like me, looking for the speaker or something to order. So, then,
my kids will set me straight like, dad, use the app. But -- but I'm glad there is enough
room there, you know, for people like me to move to the side or just go park, use the app.
So, the extra parking spots are also good, because for the people that show up, you know,
they can go park and use the app and, then, whatever, circle back or whatnot, whatever
they need to do, so --
Seal: Instead of an escape lane, it's a ridicule lane?
Rivera: Yeah.
Seal: That's -- that would be same for me, too, so -- and it -- and it is interesting, a lot of
these are happening. That -- that does some seem to be a business model that we are
going to see more of, not less in the future, so -- with that I will take a motion.
Smith: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
Smith: Sorry. I just -- I -- you know, I like Noodles and Co and I just -- you know, this is
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April 20,2023
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such a good application. I'm excited for the ribbon cutting next week, if -- assuming it's
going to be ready. Mr. Chair, I -- I would like to move -- after considering all staff,
applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve -- I move to approve File No. H-2022-
0087 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of April 20th, 2023, with the
modifications listed in the staff report, as well as a modification to include arrows guiding
exiting drivers to the southbound exit of the parking lot.
Seal: Do I have a second?
Stoddard: Second.
Rivera: I will second. Oh.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to approve File No. H-2022-0087 with the
aforementioned modifications. All in favor please say aye. No opposed. Motion passes.
Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: And with that I will take one more motion.
Wheeler: Got to wait five minutes.
Rivera: I will motion to adjourn the meeting.
Seal: Do I have a second?
Smith: Second.
Stoddard: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor please say aye. We are
adjourned. Thanks, everyone.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7.25 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
APPROVED
5 I 4 12023
ANDREW SEAL - CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK