2022-06-14 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session June 14, 2022.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:30 p.m., Tuesday, June
14, 2022, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt,
Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Steve Siddoway, Dave Miles, Dave Tiede, Laurelei
McVey, Brian Caldwell, Tracy Basterrechea, Joe Bongiorno, and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record, it is June 14th, 2022,
at 4:31 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: First item up is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: For our agenda this afternoon we do want to add an Executive Session per
Idaho Code 74-206(1)(d) to consider records that are exempt from disclosures provided
in Chapter 1, Title 74, Idaho Code. We will place that at the end of Item 11 . So, with that
change, Mr. Mayor, I move adoption of the agenda as amended.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the agenda is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Aviator Springs Subdivision Pedestrian Pathway Easement
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2. Rackham Subdivision Lot 4 Water Main Easement
3. Rackham Subdivision Lot 10 Water Main Easement
4. Rackham Subdivision Water Line Extension Water Main Easement
5. Stapleton Subdivision No. 2 Sanitary Sewer Easement No. 1
6. Victory Commons Subdivision Subdivision No. 2 Sanitary Sewer and
Water Main Easement
7. Restated and Amended Joint Powers Agreement for the Coordinated
and Cooperative Provision of Emergency Medical Services in Ada
County (EMS JPA) Annual Renewal for Fiscal Year 2022
8. Agreement with Streamliners Swim Team for Use of Meridian
Community Swimming Pool Between the Streamliner Aquatic
Recreation Inc. and the City of Meridian
Simison: Next item up is the Consent Agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move approval of the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and Clerk to
attest.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the Consent Agenda is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: There are no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
9. Police Department: Proposed Ordinance related to Public Intoxication
(Potential Meridian City Code 6-3-4)
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Simison: So, we will move on to the Department/Commission Reports. First item up is
Item 9, Police Department proposed ordinance related to public intoxication. Turn this
over to Lieutenant Caldwell.
Caldwell: Mayor, Members of Council, as we have grown as a city so has our city's
nightlife and bar scene. We have noticed some issues in dealing with disruptive,
intoxicated individuals and the limitations of the current criminal codes available to our
officers. Current codes and relevant case law require a citizen to want to be a victim of
disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct. This, in turn, requires them to later appear in
court and testify against the suspect. Many people and business owners are reluctant to
want to do this for many reasons. A city public intoxication code would allow our officers
to issue a citation or effect an arrest with the City of Meridian as the victim, meaning only
the officer would typically be required to appear in court and testify against the suspect.
The code we would like to adopt is currently what the city of Boise has been using for
decades. It is one that has been vetted by our city attorney and has already been
accepted by the Boise City Prosecutor's Office and the courts in Ada county. The public
intoxication code will help our officers keep Meridian a premier community in which to
live, work, and raise a family. With that I will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. Wow, I didn't realize that we didn't have one of these in place. So,
is there a legal limit requirement? How will it actually work? Is it just something that --
that the officer observes and, then, chooses to -- to, you know, approach the individual
and, then, they have a sobriety test or -- can you take us through how that will work?
Caldwell: Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, yes, it's going to be based on the objective
signs of intoxication. So, red watery eyes, thick slurred speech. This is for the person
that is staggering drunk and the code specifies causing a disturbance, as a threat to
themselves or others; right? This is for the -- the, obviously, intoxicated person that's on
Main Street out here in front of one of our restaurants screaming and yelling and causing
a scene, while being staggeringly drunk, if that makes sense.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: What mechanism do we have in place to address this? If the individual is
exhibiting the same issues, they are disturbing the peace, they are loud, they are
obnoxious, but they are not intoxicated or they are not visibly intoxicated. How do you --
how do you address those situations?
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Caldwell: Mayor, Councilman Cavener, that would be through our disorderly conduct or
disturbing the peace code, which those codes would require that a citizen or business
owner or somebody want to be a victim of that crime, because as current case law stands
we cannot be the victims of disturbing the peace.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: So, the only change is it allows our officers to observe visual signs of
intoxication and using that as the -- the threshold, essentially, then, to enforce this new
ordinance that's being proposed; is that correct?
Caldwell: Yes. That is correct.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Can you take us through what happens if an individual is then arrested, they
are taken to the station and, then, what happens from there?
Caldwell: Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, so if the arrest happens -- I mean they could
go -- either a citation could be issued or an arrest and so if we do an arrest we would
attempt to get a breath test, because that's the best practice that we learn from the Boise
Police Department. But if the person's noncooperative, then, we are just going to have
to go off the objective signs that the officer would witness, which is really similar to what
they do in a DUI; right? Their first descriptions are when I made contact with Citizen X
they had red watery eyes, thick and slurred speech, the odor of alcoholic beverage
coming from their breath and person, they had an unsteady gait and those -- those kind
of symptoms is what we -- what we would use in that situation.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: No question, just to comment. It's a no brainer. I think it's a great addition.
Properly used it -- it proactively prevents problems. The -- the classic example is the
stumbling drunk walking towards the parking lot. So, if you have got any opportunity to
lawfully intervene and prevent those kind of activities from occurring, it's fantastic.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, I do have one more question.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: Thank you. Does the individual have to be on public property or are you
permitted to -- to approach them on private property?
Caldwell: Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, it would be public property or private property
open to the public. So, if somebody was at say Walmart causing a disturbance or a scene,
then, we would be able to act there as well.
Simison: Council, any additional questions? Okay.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Just a comment. It sounds like we need this change and, you know,
alcohol unfortunately -- when used responsibly is fine, but when used irresponsibility just
causes a lot of social ills and I appreciate us -- you know, the Police Department coming
forward with this if this is what we need to keep people safe. So, thank you.
Simison: Mr. Nary?
Nary: Mayor, Members of the Council, I -- I do want to take the opportunity to at least
commend Ms. Kane, because this, actually, is an improvement over the Boise code,
because they were having some court issues in Boise and so Ms. Kane crafted this to
basically address those issues and keep it as Constitutional. So, it is ready to move
forward when the Council's ready for us to put it on.
Simison: Well, then, we will put this on for consideration by Council at a future date.
Okay. Thank you.
Caldwell: Thank you.
10. Parks and Recreation Department: Cost Recovery Process Update
Simison: Next item up is Park and Recreation Department cost recovery process update.
Turn this over to Mr. Siddoway first.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, we are coming before you tonight to give you
an update on our cost recovery process. Teresa Jackson, who you have heard from a
couple of times previously, is -- is online and will be making the presentation. I wanted to
introduce her and, actually, I just wanted to -- Council Woman Perreault actually came
and participated in our public sorting exercise, one of the two that we held and was in one
of the small groups that had to put all of our programs and services on the cost recovery
pyramid for the public benefit, from most of the individual benefit, to mostly public benefit.
I was wondering, Council Woman Perreault, if you would just maybe share a few words
about your experience there and what we did.
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Perreault: Thank you, Steve. Yeah. It was -- it was really fun, actually, and I was
surprised that there was such a variety of thoughts and opinions about what each activity
meant to the community. I was in a group of three and pretty much everybody else I think
were just volunteers from the community that were there and -- and, then, we had one
staff person that was kind of guiding our discussion. But I thought the deliberation that
was done was really hugely beneficial to -- to talk out the individual activities and how
important they are to the community. So, I learned a lot and I -- but I was really surprised
in the presentation that we are going to hear how different the rankings were from the
public to the staff, so --
Siddoway: Staff tended to be a little more conservative, meaning a little more cost
recovery, kind of anticipating that as a desire of the Council. The public tended to actually
weigh things more toward the public benefit, which surprised us. But with that I'm going
to turn it over to Teresa and she can give you the -- the full overview and welcome your
discussion. So, thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Steve. Teresa.
Jackson: Excuse me. I was having a challenge unmuting there. Good afternoon, Mayor,
Council. It's a pleasure to be here with you again. When I was with you back towards
the end of May I -- I updated you on the categories that had been developed and we were
just about to go into the sorting of services. So, I want to share the outcomes from what
we term Workshop 11 with you today and also queue up what's coming next in the project.
So, as the Council Member mentioned, we did a community sorting session. We offered
two sessions. One was an in-person morning session and the second was a virtual
evening session. We had 24 community members join us for an hour and a half of their
time, which equates to really 36 hours of meaningful volunteer deliberation, because this
is a challenging exercise. It's fun, but it really -- there is a lot of critical thinking involved
and quite often, you know, when you go to a community meeting you are listening. But
through this process it's really important for the community members to engage and share
their thoughts and opinions. So, not only did we do this with the community, we also did
it with the staff. So, we held two staff sessions as well. So, that ultimately we could
compare and contrast how the different groups put the various categories on to the
pyramid. So, just as a quick refresh, the department developed 21 categories of service
leading up to the sorting sessions and those categories represent all the programs and
services that the department provides and so they are, essentially, large buckets that are
clearly defined. So, you have a category title, you have a description, and, then, some
examples as well and this is what the community, as well as the staff, used to place the
categories or services onto the pyramid and a refresher of the pyramid -- the foundation
of the pyramid is really the programs and services that have the most substantial benefit
to the taxpaying community and so those are typically things like your parks and trails,
something that even if your community members don't use them they are aesthetically
pleasing, they are good for the environment, they can potentially even increase home
values and as you go up the pyramid the benefit to the community is reduced and, then,
once you are on top the benefit is really very individualized. So, what you see before you
is a side-by-side comparison of the staff sorting and the public sorting. So, on the left-
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hand side you have the staff and on the right-hand side you have the public and you will
see the boxes in red for the public pyramid, those are where we had variations. So, we
had 12 mismatched categories and this is not uncommon by any means and so,
ultimately, what we do is we sit down with your project team and we have to reconcile
these categories and determine where they should live on the pyramid based on what we
learned from staff, as well as the public, and a moment ago the Council Member
referenced that there was a staff member there at the table with them and that staff
member served as a facilitator for the process, but they were also taking notes and trying
to gain understanding about why certain selections were made. So, ultimately, that
information really feeds into how we reconcile the public score and the staff score. So,
what you see before you is just those 12 mismatched categories showing the public score
and the staff score and, then, the final score and these scores -- what we look at is we
take the collective scoring from each group and we are looking at the average and the
mean and the mode and in some cases you could have a couple of groups that are really
bringing down an overall score -- score and so that needs to be taken into consideration,
as well as exactly, you know, where it was. Was it a 2.5 or was it a 2.7 and looking at
those elements. So, ultimately, what --the green --what the green represents is what the
final score was. So, you can see it's somewhat of a balance between the staff score, the
public score and, then, even one situation where it turned out to be a compromise
between the two and this is quite common, too, because when we sit down with the project
team and we listen to those facilitators about why groups made their selections,
something like youth camps, for example, that's something the staff saw as a balanced
benefit of three. But the public strongly felt there was value in this, not just to those kiddos
who are attending the programs, but also to those parents who have a place to take their
children during the summer that's safe and so that's an example where staff heard that
messaging loud and clear through both public sessions and ultimately shifted that three
to a two. An example where the shift wasn't made is -- excuse me -- merchandise and
vending. So, the public had that as a three and what we learned from the facilitators is
there seemed to be a concern from the public that it would go away if it ended up on the
top of the pyramid. Recognition that it was very individualized, but they value it. They
really appreciate having that vending at your parks and so ultimately staff went with a five,
because of what they heard was we don't want it to go away. But there is understanding
that we don't want to subsidize a candy bar and so staff leaned five in that it really makes
sense for the operation. They are not trying to remove the programming, just they don't
want to subsidize that vending piece. So, ultimately, this is the final pyramid and you can
see it ended up being very balanced once the reconciliation process was done. The
bottom of the pyramid, the purple tier, represents your parks and pathways, community
special events, arts and culture programs, volunteer opportunities. Considerable benefit.
The blue two. You have got your permitted special events. The youth camps that
referenced that the public found a lot of value in. The field rentals. Monitor drop in use.
Then as we move up into three this is where a lot of your programming starts to surface.
Youth and rec classes and programs, swim lessons, city sports leagues and tournaments
and facility rentals. Then continuing up into four, that's where your shelter rentals are, the
golf course, concession leases, trips and adult classes. So, we have got some layering
there with your classes as well. That's very age based. And, then, up in five is where
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your private swim lessons are, admission based rentals, merchandise and vending and
your tenant facility leases.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you. Yeah. Just to reflect a little bit. I think this all makes a lot of sense.
I'm struggling a little bit with the placement of -- of the Lakeview Golf Club overall. You
know, even -- I understand staff scoring was kind of before I -- you know, I -- I will -- I will
defer to the group's work, but I guess I want to understand why the final score is more of
a four and not like a five. You know, it -- it just doesn't occur to me that golf is an activity
that we should subsidize in any way. But maybe I'm off base. I want to be open minded
to the group's work. So, if you could just share some more insight on that one specifically
that would help me.
Jackson: Sure. So, the public really found a lot of value in the golf course, not just for
the golfers, but for the guests that go along with them. They thought it was an affordable
opportunity for community members to be exposed to the game of golf. Additionally,
believe -- and, Steve, you will have to help me here. I believe something coming up about
-- is the golf course available for individuals to walk on.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, Council, if I can add -- yeah, I -- I would be glad to add some
additional feedback on this. I think staff was bouncing between the -- the four and the
five and part--and we agreed that in concept we want to get operations to be fully funding.
They are not even quite there yet, but it seems that we are even -- we are going to be
subsidizing capital for the foreseeable future. We certainly are with the current irrigation
program. So, some acknowledgement that it's not a hundred percent cost recovery, but
we thought it belonged near the top of the pyramid. A lot of the -- the public ones were
three and even two. Council Woman Perreault, I don't know if you -- I mean I think your
-- your group was down at a two, if I remember right, for the golf course and what
remember is that just overall with all of the -- the comments that I remember hearing back
from the facilitators was there was a lot of -- and they weren't even all golfers, but they
just said it's open -- yes, you have to pay to play, but anyone can go, it's a public course,
and there is a public benefit to having the course as part of the system. So, we did tend
towards the top of the pyramid and I think the public tended toward the lower part of the
pyramid. I don't know if you have any other perspective you would add to that.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, if I remember correctly when --when the exercise was presented we were
instructed not to consider cost or city investment into the exercise and so I don't think that
-- that we were really looking at it from the perspective of cost recovery or from the city's
financial investment, it was more of is -- is this an opportunity that's available to the
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broader public or isn't it and is it more individual use or not? So, we were not having any
cost recovery discussions whatsoever. So, I think that probably -- if you saw some
differences in scores, it-- it probably was more having to do with the ranking of, you know,
is this available to the whole community? How many -- how much of the community is
going to use it? And it really had nothing to do with the financial part of it.
Siddoway: I think the only part I would -- I think I would add a little bit to that and, Teresa,
maybe I will just add a word and, then, you can maybe clarify, but I think we were clear
that we were talking about cost recovery as the ultimate goal, but we were focusing in the
pyramid on the public benefit, not necessarily what it cost, but trying to analyze what is
the benefit to the individual versus to the general public. But I think it was always
presented as a cost recovery exercise and maybe we disagree, but --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Siddoway: Oh, go ahead.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I wouldn't say that the exercise was presented that way in the -- in the meeting
that I was in. I'm not trying to disagree, I'm just saying that -- that at least our group didn't
have any discussions about cost recovery as an element of the decision making in placing
the activities, so -- but I don't remember what our group scored it as. I do remember us
discussing that it was more of an individual benefit in the sense that, you know, it's -- it's
not something -- there -- there may be many people in our community that don't golf.
There also are a lot of golfers coming from other cities to use it. So, it's -- in that sense
it's very much an individual benefit and I -- I agree that it's somewhere between four and
five, so --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. Thanks for that feedback. I -- I -- it sounds to me like a lot of the
community has an anxiety around something being eliminated or just that -- that they
wanted to make sure that, you know, things are still a priority and so I think now it's taking
that feedback and just making sure we are getting the appropriate cost recovery for each
activity. But I appreciate that insight. Definitely feels like it is between a four and a five
to me as well, but that's just one that kind of stood out to me. So, thanks for that feedback
and -- and that's okay. I -- I get it where the public's coming from as they reflect and now
I think it's directing things if there are tweaks that need to be made.
Simison: And if I could from a -- my perspective a little bit. You know, I think there is a
difference between golfing at Lakeview Golf Club and Lake View Golf Club as a facility in
certain regards or taking a lesson at Lake View Golf Club or renting the room there for an
event at Lakeview Golf Course. You know, there is definitely various levels and I think
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that's true for -- quite frankly I think the same thing could be said for the pool in a lot of
ways. You know, the -- the -- there are definitely individual versus community at different
times throughout these. So, it may not be fully one way or the other when it comes down
to it, but it is how you apply it.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Are you recommending that we split those out and look at them separately as
cost recovery elements? Because I -- I agree with the use as being different in each
location and the revenue will be different.
Simison: I -- I think it's interesting to see that we have only one -- you know, the -- the
one -- one entity is listed in this way. You know, you don't see HomeCourt listed on this
in this way. You don't see a future community center listed as an entity on here. Is it more
based around the type of activity that I'm seeing or what you would do in that space. So,
it's just -- it's more interesting to have it called out specifically.
Siddoway: I would agree. And we actually wrestled with this very theme, creating our
programs and services for the sorting. Maybe if we can let Teresa give her perspective.
I think what we have talked about with her is that within something like Lake View Golf
Club there may be certain elements of it that are more or less, but overall what is
expected. So, if -- if -- if you would -- if you wouldn't mind letting her maybe add some
additional color as someone who deals with this on a regular basis, I think we would all
find it helpful and, then, we can decide what we want to do.
Jackson: Thanks, Steve. So, a couple items just to circle back to. When we set the
stage for the workshop we do say that this is about the benefit to the community. We
encourage participants to take themselves, take the individual out and to not focus about
on the fee. It's not about what it costs, it's about what the benefit is to the larger
community. So, that is how we set the stage. So, the comment related to the facility
rental piece at the golf course. So, the Lakeview Golf Club -- the definition for that is very
specific to rounds of golf. It doesn't include the rental. So, facility rentals that's there in
Tier 3 would encompass the room rental there at that facility as it stands now and so we
really ask departments to look at their budgets differently. So, we -- we all get into the
habit of looking at aquatics in a silo or a facility such as HomeCourt in a silo, but we want
to dissect that and just look at the youth programs that are at HomeCourt, the adult
programs, the rentals and we want to extract all of that out, so that like things are together
regardless of where they are occurring. Does that help a bit?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
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Cavener: Teresa, can you maybe give Council a little flavor to the -- why the separation
of say something like a -- like a shelter rental being viewed as a considerable individual
benefit, while a city rental -- a facility rental, excuse me, is viewed as more balanced?
Kind of what was the synopsis as to why were the -- the groups kind of separating those
out?
Jackson: Sure. So, let's see. I'm going back just to take a look at where public and staff
were. So, the public was a three for a shelter rental and the staff was a five and so,
ultimately, they had some compromise there with a four and, then, as it relates to indoor
we were at a three and a four and staff came down to a four and I remember this was a
very tough one that the -- the group wrestled with for quite a bit, because in the public
mind they were the same. It was a rental whether it was inside or out. Staff saw a bit of
difference in that there is very limited indoor opportunities for rentals and that they can't
really serve a large portion of the community.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor?
Jackson: Did I frame that right?
Simison: Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: The additional maybe flavor that I would put on to that is we were seeing
picnic shelter rentals as primarily more of a --an individual family or group --smaller group
benefit. A lot of our facility rentals, like for HomeCourt, they are youth team sports. There
is a kind of a greater community benefit to the -- the --the team aspect of that. So, I mean
if-- if there is disagreement with that among Council, that's why we are presenting tonight
to look at the consensus pyramid, but, you know, we can -- we did see that the -- we
thought the -- the shelter rental was more of an individual benefit than the -- than a sports
team renting a facility at HomeCourt as an example.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Jackson: And ultimate -- oh. I apologize. The field rentals and the facility rentals ended
up on that same level because of that commonality that Steve referenced.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you. One of the ways that we thought about this and looked at this was
kind of the -- the reverse. So, if you -- if you were to take away shelter rentals how would
that impact the community? If you were to take away facility rentals how would that impact
the community --would be a larger group of people that would be negatively affected and
so that was also one of the ways that we kind of looked at things is like what if it were
removed, who is it going to be -- you know, who is -- who is going to lose that benefit and
that helped in placing these as well.
Simison: I'm not sure who -- Teresa, do you have more to present?
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Jackson: I do and I think the next piece of what comes next will be very helpful as well,
because as we start thinking about the golf course and what an appropriate cost recovery
is there, as we are looking -- so, as we look at these tiers there will be a range of cost
recovery established for each tier and we have had many agencies who are hitting a
hundred percent cost recovery in Tier 4 and going beyond that in Tier 5 and this is more
common in cases where you are only counting direct cost and that is what we are doing
through this process. So, we are in the process presently of counting all of the cost
associated at the program level and associating the revenues, so that we can ultimately
understand cost recovery for each service, roll that up into the various categories and,
then, understand how the tier itself is performing and so this next slide is a sample from
another agency, just so you can start to get a sense of -- for example, if you look at that
tier one, those are all recovering at zero percent. The tier agres gets one hundred. You
can imagine their ultimate range was very small. As you let's say look at Tier 4, this is an
agency that was pricing things in a very similar way and so you don't see a significant
increase there, but you can see the cost recovery -- recovery similarities that would assist
in ultimately developing that range and so in Tier 4 that tier aggregate was 36 and in this
example they were counting indirect cost as well, so they were counting things like their
utilities and maintenance and a variety of things associated with each facility. So, right
now we are in the process of counting those costs and identifying current cost recovery.
So, at the end of this month we can present to the project team what the cost recovery is
by category, as well as tier, so that we can develop appropriate cost recovery goals for
the future that are based on a range and on what current cost recovery is. It's really
important in the process to know where you are at before you start making leaps into
where you need to be. We don't want it -- the goal isn't to increase fees and increase
revenue by a specific amount, but it's to ensure that cost recovery is similar for like items
that have a similar benefit to the community and so that's the next phase in the process
and so you could see, for example, here on this Tier 4 this agency their aggregate was
58. They determined a 60 to 100 percent goal for Tier 4 and Tier 5 was 101 plus and,
again, so thinking about concessions, for example, saying it may be cost recovery plus a
little bit, because we are not counting overhead, we are really just counting the cost of the
item and the staff time. So, that's all I had to present to you for this update. After we have
identified those cost recovery goals for the future we will be back before the group with
another update. I have got some good feedback definitely about the golf course and
facility rentals, but are there other questions this evening about the process or diving
deeper into where those categories were placed?
Simison: So, Teresa, I don't know if this is you or Council or -- but understanding when
you look at the buckets, one thing you don't have in there is -- we talked about is we don't
have the cost to build the park. We -- we don't even have capital replacement cost built
into these elements. How do other municipalities apply that, you know, or appropriate?
Can you set the cost recovery, then, just do a ten percent add-on for future capital needs
related to that? Do they build in actual cost? Do most just avoid it altogether and assume
that they will pay for that in a different way?
Jackson: I would like to say all look at paying for it another way. I can't think of a project
under the GreenPlay or BerryDunn umbrella that included the capital cost piece. Where
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you see variations is if agencies want to count their indirect cost or if they want to keep it
solely to the direct cost and when we started this process and sat down with your Finance
Department and Steve when we talked about what we were going to count, it seemed like
with the current cost recovery policy that the city has, which really this process falls in line
with very well as far as how there is levels of cost recovery and that policy only direct cost
are being accounted for and so we are following what you are doing already in your policy.
Simison: Now, if Council is not -- doesn't like that policy that's something we can look at
revisiting as we go through this process. But, Council, any additional questions or
comments at this time?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Cavener: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Steve, who eventually, then, establishes the -- the future tier targets in terms
of the -- the percentages? Is that something that you guys are going to do in conjunction
with the Parks Department and bring a recommendation back to Council? Is it something
that Council is determining? What's -- what does that next step process look like?
Jackson: So, the project team will recommend what those tier targets should be for the
future and the final study and a recommendation will come to your body for review and
adoption.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: And that may be a -- a good conversation about policy for our future Council
meeting. To me I think anything that's a Tier 5 needs to be taking into account the capital
cost of -- of building that structure. So, if it's even a -- you know, memorial bench or
memorial tree, shouldn't have the taxpayer subsidizing for the bench or the tree. Whoever
is buying the bench or the tree should be paying the full cost. I think that should also
pertain into facilities as well, for building or adding a facility to meet a specific need I would
hope that we would make sure that the taxpayers aren't subsidized that, so -- I know that
may be a future conversation, but I -- I think any cost recovery model that we do has to
at least contemplate reimbursing the taxpayers for certain capital infrastructures if they
have a very individualized use.
Simison: Thank you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Maybe just one thing to kind of throw into the mix. So, I think a lot of it, too, kind
of depends on what a facility rental is being used for to some extent and that's hard to
parse out. But like I view someone, you know, using a facility, for example, for like a
wedding or something and that happens more I think in Boise than it does here, has a
considerable individual benefit versus, you know, like a 4-H group or something renting a
facility. So, I don't know how we could solve for that, but I think that's something we might
want to take into consideration.
Jackson: If I may respond to that. The process will ultimately include elements similar to
that. So, within a category you can have a sliding scale, so that a nonprofit rate is different
than a private party rate and they are collectively recovering within your range and so that
real cost recovery might come from that wedding, not that nonprofit, but it's meeting that
goal.
Strader: That's really helpful. Thank you. I will stay tuned.
11. Mayor's Office: Use of American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 (ARPA) Fund
Simison: Council, any additional questions or comments? All right. Thank you very
much, Teresa. Appreciate it. Steve. Garrett. Okay. With that we will move on to Item
11, which is from the Mayor's office, the use of American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 . ARPA
funds. Turn this over to Mr. Miles.
Miles: Good afternoon, Council, Mayor. I chalked this up to maybe continuing
conversations and lessons learned as we go through the process is more what this
conversation is going to be. I have just the one slide for you that I think most of you have
seen already. For informational purposes. What's laid out on that slide, just for those
watching so they know, it's really laid out on the project basis based on what we have
originally talked about -- presented to you on March 15th and, then, some additional
information that's come through budget conversations, as well as a proposed column of
sort of where -- where do we continue to go? So, if you recall back on March 15th we
sort of finalized this phase one list that's in the second column, adding the bio gas project
and moving the streetlights projects down into phase two, which we had not talked about
any of phase two projects, we just put that there as a placeholder. You can see the figures
there at the bottom. Since that time we have had some ongoing discussions, learning
more information, primarily around compliance reporting. I know -- in fact, I just got a
comment today that purchasing has told us for the Public Works projects we have to use
a competitive bidding process, not a roster list process. So, that's going to add time to
the --the extent of those projects, rather than just selecting off the roster. That leads back
to the compliance and reporting under ARPA. We are learning every day about what
reporting requirements there are. Finance has, rightfully so, some concerns to make sure
that we are meeting those requirements and as we dive into those requirements they
become what I will call more gray, not as straightforward as it's no problem, we can easily
report this, which is what some people were saying early on. So, we are just learning that
information and going through that. We are also, as we presented, for example, the
facility HVAC filtration project, we are running a pilot test right now up in Public Works to
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see what the benefit of that is and how that project works, so that we know as we go
through the -- putting together the scope and the design that we are putting together a
relevant project. We thought we had that. We are still waiting on the information from
the pilot project, but we just don't know what is the effectiveness of that project. So, that's
a reason why I suggested striking that project for the moment, utilizing dollars elsewhere
and, then, additional to the budget items that are listed in the FY-23 budget column, more
conversations with you all between the Mayor and the Council and ideas that are coming
and just coming to light and coming to the table, considering should any of those items
that maybe are budget items considerations be considered for ARPA funding, which
would, then, utilize -- or give you the ability to utilize budget dollars for other things. As
you see there you have got Jesse Tree payments listed, Circuit Breaker relief and
potentially the Fire and Police cost for the budget amendments that were recently
approved in the '22 budget. So, really here for a dialogue. I do provide a proposed
suggestion. I am looking for a little bit of guidance and discussion on these -- this
proposed column, probably mostly as it pertains to the phase one. We did talk with Public
Works on the bio gas project that was added. Laurelei McVey is here to address any
questions you have, but she did share that they believe it's feasible to get the project done
in the timeline when adding it to the list of the other projects that are there. Additionally
we are recommending using some of these funds for compliance reporting. If we have to
bring in a consultant to satisfy the reporting needs because we have staffing shortages,
staffing resources that we just don't have to get to that level of information, it's probably
not a bad idea to do that and I don't know that it would cost the entirety of what's listed at
175,000, but having it there and utilizing it on either a project-by-project basis or a
program basis is probably smart. So, maybe I will stop there, let some questions happen,
have some conversations and I can certainly provide any flavor or detail on the -- the
current phase two projects that are proposed on the far right. We also have -- Dave Tiede
is here and, as I said, Laurelei is here as well to address any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Dave. And if I could just add, I mean we wanted to at least get this
back in front of you prior to Thursday's budget conversation, so Council could look at the
full picture of things that are out there for consideration and discussion, not necessarily
asking for any decision tonight on anything, unless you feel so inclined to move forward
on anything specifically, but just, again, continue the conversation, see where we are
going, what makes sense and go from there. So, Council, any questions, comments or
we also have other staff that can come talk about the other projects which are mentioned
if you are interested. Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, you just mentioned the compliance consulting. Is
-- is this just like a general placeholder for consultants we need to hire for any projects
that we have coming up in the next couple of years that we may not have otherwise
considered in the CFP or is there a specific compliance issue that -- that is being
proposed?
Miles: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, this is more considering the ARPA projects
as a bucket to say we have got these projects and I think it's fair to -- you got to think of
this in maybe two phases. The Public Works projects that are larger that have
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engineering, engines, and staffing behind them where there is going to be consultants
that are experienced in grant management, probably have a different level of-- a different
threshold of compliance reporting concern to get it right, because they have that
experience behind those types of projects and other types of grant programs. The other
things that you get into are more the -- the localized program. So, when we are repaying
the benefits trust do we have the right paperwork put in place or do we need to hire a
consultant to tell us, hey, we need XYZ or the paperwork you submitted meets the
reporting requirements of the treasury? That's something that Finance has been
suggesting and asking for us, so we are having those conversations about what level of
what I will call -- I don't want to say auditing, but I'm going to say auditing. What level of
auditing of paperwork is necessary for the comfort level of the Finance team when we are
operating under this grant program. So, hopefully, that clarifies.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, follow up, please.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, if I am understanding correctly, it's once these projects are approved, then,
this consulting firm will look at the details and help us comply as a city to the ARPA
reporting requirements or are we talking about them consulting -- or them advising us on
whether these are -- are projects we should be using ARPA dollars for at all?
Miles: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, to the compliance reporting requirements.
Which certainly if there is concern on their part to say, well, this project doesn't even meet
muster, which I will stick my neck out there, I don't believe -- I believe all these meet the
muster of the -- of being eligible for funding. The idea is more that they will be looking at
the paperwork to say this is what's required to submit to justify your project cost X time Y
of the -- the project timeline. It's standard reporting requirements in all grants. We are
not ARPA experts in grant funding on this program and that's some of the concerns that
Finance has expressed.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, is there an expectation that the federal government is going to make ARPA
reporting so complicated that we need to hire a consultant for 175,000 dollars to make
sure that we are in compliance? I just -- I'm really trying to understand it. I -- maybe I'm
just --
Simison: If I could --
Perreault: -- dense this evening.
Simison: The CFO of the city has requested outside assistance to ensure compliance,
so we are kept within the guidelines, yes. Whether it's he feels he doesn't have the
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resources or the knowledge, he is asking for additional assistance for running any of these
projects.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thanks, Dave. Could you just remind us about the timeline constraint of when
the money needs to be spent by? And, then, I might have a follow-up comment.
Miles: Sure. Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, so projects have to have funding
allocated to them by December of 2024 and project expenses have to be expended by
2026 -- December 2026.
Strader: So, I -- I have a comment. Maybe --
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: And it's just thinking out loud, but, you know, it occurs to me like we are I think
moving the police and fire station costs in because we know they would be spent within
that time frame and we might want to think about -- I think we have decisioned that to a
pretty good extent already. I think that if that stayed in our original budget we were
presented that really leaves us with a pretty clean approach to like chewing what we bit
off last year and, then, I think this extraordinary funding could be used potentially for the
designing and design plans for the community center. Dave, is there any reason that the
community center has been omitted from consideration that we should be aware of?
Miles: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, only in the fact that we had moved the budget
items from the budget -- FY-23 budget items over to the proposed. I think it's really all for
discussion. You have got the omitted things that are on there, not only the community
center, but golf course irrigation, park land, certainly the streetlights as well. So, I think
it's all open for discussion and I appreciate your feedback on the -- the fire station
comment.
Simison: And one way or the other when you are talking about any of the things that
could be funded with General Fund dollars, the net result is the same, honestly, whether
you use money for a community center from ARPA or use Fire and Police for ARPA, it's
-- on the back end it's going to free up the same dollars for the same -- for any General
Fund purposes. Either way. If -- if you use the 4.3 from our Police and Fire, then, you
have freed up 4.3 million for community center. It's the same basic principle philosophy,
it's just where do you want to apply dollars potentially or not and are we -- what -- are we
confident in meeting those thresholds and those time frames which were discussed. And
I know that's even why Laurelei is here, is wanting to make sure that -- some of these
things we need to move forward on, because they will take significant amount of time and
we don't even know how long some of these are going to take based upon the current
supply chain and all -- all those wonderful, wonderful issues.
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Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Your comment is spot on. I -- I thought this phase two proposal made sense in
that it's allocating this -- in this case 4.3, it's -- it's not additional funds, but it's kind of
recharacterizing existing budgeted items for two certainties that will meet the deadlines
that you have described. So, I think that makes great sense. The other two as well.
had sent out the note that big proponent of utilizing some portion, an amount to be
determined, for one facet of affordable housing solutions utilizing Jesse Tree and another
providing some form of Circuit Breaker relief, which I see both of those noted. But the
lion's share characterizing to cover the police and fire station existing costs makes great
sense to ensure compliance.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I -- I would like to explore a little bit on the affordable housing subject, because
we have two things I -- I think two paths that we need to decide on. One is what are we
going to do with affordable housing for the future moving forward, if anything. I -- I have
no idea. And Council Woman Perreault has been diving into that. And the other one is
what do we do, if anything, with our recent request for funding for their project of affordable
housing and that can be ARPA funds, that could be budgeted funds in General Fund
dollars or it could be nothing at all. But I -- I -- I see whatever we do if -- if anything for --
for the housing company issue, a one off, because I think we need to have a plan in place
for affordable housing moving forward, again, if -- if any. If we decide to get into that --
that realm. So, that's one of those things I'm -- I'm not too sure what to -- which direction
we want to go on the first item of the immediate request and, then, of course, building that
other program and the timing and all those costs, that might be a General Fund item that
-- that we rely on moving forward. So, I just want to have that discussion, because I'm --
I'm not sure where -- where we want to go.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: My hope is, as many of you know, that definitely before the end of 2024 that
Meridian has an affordable housing policy and plan in place and that we would be able to
identify those funds fairly easily. But as you mentioned, Council -- Councilman Hoaglun,
you know, that this doesn't have a specific place right at this very moment and so if that
-- if that is something that, you know, if -- if Council says one of the criteria or desired
elements of these ARPA funds is to have a specific place for the funds to go, like
Councilman Borton just mentioned, with police and fire, we know the costs, we know they
are there, we know they can be met, then, you know, to stick consistent with the criteria
for each of the line items in here I think is a -- is a good idea. One of the original
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conversations we had in the first meeting was that Councilman Borton and Councilman
Strader. Here we are looking at how many of these will bring a return to the city of some
kind or a cost savings to the city of some kind. So, just want to circle around maybe on
our big picture criteria for each of these items and see if we want all of them to fit into that
criteria or if we want them to -- or if we are comfortable changing some of that criteria and
the -- the affordable housing conversation, one of the things I have thought about when I
first saw this -- I don't know who -- who had kind of decided to bring this as a proposal,
but was to potentially, as we have these conversations about consultants, talk with the
Planning Department about the possibility of using some of those funds to have some
guidance from specialists on affordable housing that -- that guide municipalities and
counties specifically. So, that's another potential item that we could consider under
affordable housing is to have somebody who maybe has more knowledge at the national
level of what different cities are doing that are in a similar position.
Simison: Council, any additional questions or comments at this time?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Maybe just a comment. I think it's great that we are looking at this and I think it
would be fantastic if we could have this conversation alongside the budget conversation
over the next month, because they really do go hand in hand. I agree that money is
fungible, but I -- I do think that this ARPAfunding is a specific opportunity to do things that
we might not otherwise be able to accelerate forward and so I -- I think it does make
sense to look at it a little bit differently, but I would just appreciate if we could -- if it's
possible for us to discuss ARPA projects within our discussions of the budget, I think that
would make a lot of sense to talk about them together. But that's just my two cents.
Simison: And, Council Woman Strader, that's why we wanted to get this in front of you
before we had the budget discussion, so you could see at least what was being proposed
as part of the -- as part of the dialogue. So, yeah, we weren't expecting a decision
direction tonight, but with other conversations occurring over the next several weeks it
just seemed appropriate To make sure we got this back in front of you for part of your
thought process.
Strader: Got it.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: One other item I just want to touch on. Fiber connectivity. I don't know if, Dave,
you wanted to handle that. Dave Tiede is here. Just explain a little bit about what -- what
would be shovel ready and what this would entail.
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Miles: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Council, Councilman Hoaglun, I -- my wife tells me that I just kill
electronics, so I have the Cliff Notes here, but if Dave is here and wants to chat about it,
I will let the expert chat about it.
Tiede: Good afternoon, Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Hoaglun. We have
a number of projects that we are interested in completing at this point in time. Most of
them are estimates. We have one that we have an official quote from a vendor on and
that is for the Fire Safety Center. That one could be started as early as August where we
do get approval. The others would take more time for developing, you know, a contract
and whatnot with consultants to do much of the labor, so --
Simison: Can you list the other projects that you have.
Tiede: Yeah. The other projects include Lakeview Golf Course. Fuller Park, which we
took ownership from WARD a few years back. Completing some projects that we have
done with Public Works in conjunction with ACHD, which includes work along Chinden,
Linder to Fire Station 5. At the Meridian pool. Connecting wastewater to that Chinden
section that we had -- that I just mentioned. Potentially Tully Park, Settlers Park and
Discovery Park phase one.
Hoaglun: Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Thanks, Dave. Yeah. Yeah. That fiber connection is
important. Again, to your point, Mayor, doing this will come out of the budget. I mean it's
-- it's -- it's all -- all the same to some degree. It can get done, so just one of those things.
But I was just curious what kind of your thought process was for where it needed to go.
Thanks, Dave.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any other questions or comments at this time? Okay.
Well, you have that. Thank you, Dave. And post -- post at least first budget conversation
maybe before. We will see about coming back. Because I know some of these we would
like to get the official official blessing to move forward in this budget year if we need to
bring forward a budget amendment for some of them, so -- all right. Thank you.
12. EXECUTIVE SESSION per Idaho Code 74-206(1)(d): to Consider
Records that are Exempt from Disclosure as Provided in Chapter 1,
Title 74, Idaho Code
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho Code 74-
206(1)(d).
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Is there any
discussion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
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Roll call: Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Bernt, yea; Perreault, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and we will move into Executive Session.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (5:31 p.m. to 5:59 p.m.)
Simison: Council, do I have a motion to come out of Executive Session?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move we come out of Executive Session.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to come out of Executive Session. All those in
favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. Come out of Executive
Session.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I move we adjourn.
Simison: I have a motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay?
The ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:59 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
6 / 28 2022
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK