2022-05-19 Item 1.
Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting May 19, 2022.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of May 19, 2022, was called
to order at 6:04 p.m. by Chairman Andrew Seal.
Members Present: Chairman Andrew Seal, Commissioner Steven Yearsley,
Commissioner Patrick Grace, Commissioner Nick Grove and Commissioner Maria
Lorcher.
Members Absent: Commissioner Nate Wheeler and Commissioner Mandi Stoddard.
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Kurt Starman, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Alan
Tiefenbach and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Nate Wheeler X Maria Lorcher
Mandi Stoddard X Nick Grove
_X Steven Yearsley X Patrick Grace
X Andrew Seal - Chairman
Seal: All right. Good evening. Welcome to the Planning and Zoning Commission
meeting for the date of May 19th, 2022. At this time I would like to call the meeting to
order. The Commissioners who are present for this evening are at City Hall. We also
have staff from the city attorney, clerk's offices, as well as the City Planning Department.
For anyone online if you would like to simply watch the meeting we would encourage you
to stream this on the city's YouTube channel and you can access that at
meridiancity.org/live. With that let's begin with the roll call. Mr. Clerk.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Seal: Okay. The first item on the agenda -- agenda is the adoption of the agenda. Could
I get a motion to adopt the agenda?
Grove: So moved.
Lorcher: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded -- seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor say
aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
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Item 1. May 19,2022 5
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CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the April 28, 2022 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
2. Approve Minutes of the May 5, 2022 Planning and Zoning Commission
Meeting
Seal: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and we have two items on the
Consent Agenda. One is to approve the minutes of the April 28th, 2022, Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting. Second is to approve the minutes of the May 5th, 2022,
Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Could I get a motion to accept the Consent
Agenda as presented?
Grace: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to accept the Consent Agenda. All in favor say aye.
Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Seal: Okay. So, at this time I would like to explain the public hearing process. We will
open each item individually. Begin with the staff report. Staff will report their findings on
how they adhere to the Comprehensive Plan and the Unified Development Code. After
staff has made their presentation the applicant will come forward to present their case
and respond to staff comments. They will 15 minutes -- 15 minutes to do so. After the
applicant is finished we will open the floor to public testimony. Each person will be called
on only once during the public testimony. The Clerk will call the names individually of
those who have signed up on our website and in advance to testify. You will, then, be
unmuted in Zoom or you can come to the microphones in chambers. Please state your
name and address for the record and you will have three minutes to address the
Commission. If you have previously sent pictures or a presentation for the meeting it will
be displayed on the screen and the Clerk will run the presentation. If you have established
that you are speaking on behalf of a large -- larger group, like an HOA, where others from
that group will allow you to speak on their behalf, you will have up to ten minutes. After
all of those who have signed up in advance have spoken we will invite any others that
may wish to testify. If you wish to speak on the topic you may come forward in Chambers.
If you are speaking from Zoom, please -- and you have multiple devices, please, make
sure to mute the secondary devices, so we don't get feedback and we can hear you
clearly. When you are finished, if the Commission does not have any questions for you,
you will return to your seat in Chambers or be muted on Zoom and you will no longer
have the ability to speak. And, please, remember we will not call on you a second time.
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After all testimony has been heard the applicant will be given another ten minutes to come
back and respond. When the applicant is finished responding to questions and concerns
we will close the public hearing. The Commissioners will have the opportunity to discuss
and, hopefully, be able to find -- or make final decisions or recommendations to City
Council as needed.
ACTION ITEMS
3. Public Hearing Continued from May 5, 2022 for Amina's Daycare (fka
Mulonge Daycare) (H-2022-0012) by Godelieve Mulonge, Located at
4175 S. Leaning Tower Ave.
A. Request: A Conditional Use Permit for a group daycare of up to 12
children on 0.145 acres of land in the R-8 zoning district.
Seal: So, at this time I would like to continue file number H-2022-0012 for Amina's
Daycare, which was continued from May 5th, and we will begin with the staff report.
Tiefenbach: Greetings, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. Alan Tiefenbach.
Associate planner with the City of Meridian. Yes, it has been continued a few times due
to some issues with posting. This time it has been posted and mailed properly. This is a
request for a conditional use permit. The property is .14 acres, zoned R-8, located on the
west side of South Locust Grove, which is north of Amity. This is a conditional use permit
to allow a group daycare. The property is already permitted to allow what is known as a
family daycare. That allows up to six kids. In order to go -- and that could be allowed
administratively. But in order to go from six to 12 kids they are required to go through a
public meeting, which is the purpose of this this evening. Again, located at 4175 South
Leaning Tower. There is already an in-home daycare there that has been there with six
children. The applicant wants to expand up to 12. According to the applicant, the daycare
will operate from 6.30 to 7.00 p.m. on weekdays. Play time is limited to one hour after
9:00 a.m. and one hour after 1:00 p.m. The applicant has stated that they presently
provide and will continue to provide the transportation for the children, although in the
instance that there may be people picking up or drop off, the house does have a parking
pad, which is approximately 30 feet wide, so that would accommodate an additional car,
as well as there is parking spaces that are available along the curb in front of the house
if needed. Staff has received quite a few letters initially from adjacent property owners.
think the last one we received was maybe in March. Original issues were talking about
parking, traffic, and safety issues. There is some pictures that I took here. Staff visited
-- based on the issues that were expressed about the parking and the traffic, staff went
out in the middle of the day and -- and looked and at that time all we saw on that whole
street was just two cars parked in front of the house. There was one particular citizen
that sent staff e-mails that there had been some ongoing issues with code enforcement.
There have been some complaints called into PD. Staff contacted the police department.
They said there had been one call and I guess it might have been somewhat
confrontational, but they did talk to the applicant and it might have been a
miscommunication. Since that time the PD said they have gone out there three more
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times just to check and they have not seen any other issues with that. With that I don't
have any other additional recommendations or requirements. Staff recommends
approval.
Seal: All right. Thank you very much. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Johnson: Mr. Chair, he is online and unmuted.
Seal: Okay.
O'Bryant: Greetings. Thank you guys for hearing us. My name is Nick O'Bryant. I'm an
attorney and I represent Ms. Godelieve Mulonge.
Seal: If you could give your address for the record, please.
O'Bryant: Absolutely. It's 4106 South Sarteano, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. I'm about five
houses down from this. We thank the -- the city and the staff for helping us get through
this and through the process and appreciate the work and recommendation and I know
my -- my clients here are -- are excited to get this, hopefully, and -- and seek approval.
You know, ultimately I think there is no real concerns to address. I -- there were several
neighbors that I guess had a change of heart and -- and I think that's -- I would like to
thank them for that. Other than that I -- we don't have much more to add. If you have
any questions I'm happy to answer them.
Seal: Okay. Thank you. Does anybody have any questions for the applicant or staff?
All right. None at this time. Do we have anybody that's signed up to testify on this?
Johnson: Mr. Chair, only the applicant's representative signed up. That's all.
Seal: Okay. It looks like we have one other person on Zoom at this point. If they would
like to testify they can raise their hand.
Johnson: And I believe they are with an applicant later in the application.
Seal: Okay. If there is no questions and if the -- does the applicant have anything further
to add or --
O'Bryant- Nothing further. Thank you.
Seal: Okay. Thank you.
Grace: Mr. Chairman?
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Seal: Go ahead.
Grace: I just have a general question, because I --we have seen these a number of times
and there is a comment in the findings that this is -- these are much needed services. I'm
just wondering if staff can expand on that. I mean is there a -- is there a real need for
daycare services that it would prompt that -- and maybe you don't know the answer.
Tiefenbach: I'm probably the wrong person, because I don't have any children.
Grace: Yeah.
Tiefenbach: I can tell you that I regularly hear about the cost of daycare, especially in
more of an institutional or commercial setting. In-home daycare that's run by people from
home providers tends to be much cheaper, tends to serve the surrounding
neighborhoods. I might defer to somebody that actually has kids about the need of
daycare.
Grace: Yeah. And, I apologize, that might not be a fair question to you. I just -- we have
seen these a number of times and I'm just curious to know-- it seems like a lot of residents
are going from six to 12 children and I was just curious to know what the -- what the
demand is for this and I know Meridian is growing, of course. A lot of children. It would
make sense. But I was just looking for some more information. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go ahead.
Grove: Commissioner Grace, I could partially answer your question, just based on some
of my professional workings in this -- in this regard. Currently throughout the state and
more particularly in Meridian we have a -- a significant lack of childcare facilities and
childcare options outside of the house. With COVID the -- over the last couple of years
the demand has fluctuated somewhat, but the -- the wait list on most childcare facilities
is extensive and the -- the cost is more than a mortgage and -- for a newborn in many
cases. So, the -- the -- the need is -- is there for childcare to be provided in a multitude
of ways, both with these in-home facilities and with the larger facilities as well. We are
severely under represented with childcare facilities.
Grace: Mr. Chairman. Thank you. That's good to know. This is a great option for people.
So, I appreciate that.
Seal: Okay. Thank you.
Lorcher: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Lorcher, go ahead.
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Lorcher: In regard to staff for the summary of the requests, the play time is limited to one
hour between 9:00 a.m. and one hour after 1:00 p.m. Is that a guideline or is that a
steadfast rule?
Tiefenbach: Let me double check and see if that was in our conditions of approval. If
you think it needs to be and it's not you can certainly add that.
Lorcher: I would be the opposite. Children need to be outside. So, one hour a day and
if they are there from -- what are their hours? 7:00 a.m. to say 6:00 p.m. if somebody is
working and only to allow the children out for two hours a day, especially in the summer
time, seems not the best use of the children's time.
Tiefenbach: I was quite a hyperactive child and I'm sure that would have been a
nightmare for my parents. I will double check and see if that was a condition of approval.
Give me just a minute.
Lorcher: Thank you.
Seal: Anymore questions? Somebody has to ask a question while Alan is looking.
Johnson: I apologize, Mr. Chair. The applicant does have their hand up. I don't know if
they wanted to answer that or if you are still taking -- Mr. O'Bryant, you can go ahead.
O'Bryant: Thank you. I just wanted to point out a couple of things. I live in this
neighborhood, too. We did just have a baby in November. I quit myjob at a firm and took
a few clients and -- and work from home myself, primarily because of the cost of -- of
daycare. It is a huge -- huge concern around here. The growth is incredible and -- and
there is no shortage of folks that can't get daycare. So, we appreciate that. And, then,
on a -- sort of practical side, I don't think anybody in this neighborhood knew these folks
ran a daycare until these notices went out. So, that should probably say something.
would have some other thoughts to say in a different setting, but I don't see any problem
here and there is a park right in front of my house. Every day during the summer there is
20, 30, 40 kids out there, if not more, and it's wonderful. That's -- that's all I think I have
to say on that.
Seal: Thank you very much. Go ahead, Alan.
Tiefenbach: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, Alan Tiefenbach. Just to clarify,
that's not a condition of approval. That was just a statement in the staff report and was
what the applicant said. So, there is no requirement on what time they can -- can or can't
be out.
Lorcher: So, they can have the children out for more than two hours a day?
Tiefenbach: There is no requirement as a condition of approval.
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Lorcher: Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Seal: Okay. Anybody else? Can I get a motion to close the public testimony?
Lorcher: So moved.
Grove: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to close the public testimony for File No. H-2022-
0012. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? All right. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: If anybody would like to ask anything -- or debate anything else or give a motion
on this? It looks fairly straightforward.
Grace: Mr. Chairman, for a motion.
Seal: Commissioner Grace, go ahead.
Grace: I would move that after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony to
recommend approval of the City Council -- to the City Council of File No. H-2022-0012 as
presented in the staff report for the hearing date of May 19th, 2022, with no modifications.
Seal: Okay.
Grove: And point of clarification.
Seal: Go ahead.
Grove: This is not -- this is a CUP, so it would not be to City Council --
Yearsley: You would need to approve, not to recommend approval.
Seal: Correct.
Grace: So, Mr. Chairman, I would alter my motion to the extent that I would motion to
approve, not to recommend to approve.
Seal: Okay. We still have a second?
Grove: Second.
Yearsley: Second.
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Seal: Okay. It has been moved and seconded to approve Item No. H-2022-0012 for
Amina's Daycare with no modifications. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay.
Motion carries. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIES: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
4. Public Hearing for Black Rock Coffee (H-2022-0019) by Tamara
Thompson of The Land Group, Inc., Located at 3300 S. Eagle Rd.
A. Request: A Conditional Use Permit to allow a drive-through
establishment within 300 feet of existing residential.
Seal: All right. At this time I would like to open public hearing H-2022-0019 for Black
Rock Coffee.
Tiefenbach: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again Alan Tiefenbach. This is a request for another
conditional use permit. The property is about a little less than an acre. It's zoned C-C.
It's located at the southeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Victory, which is in The
Shops at Victory Center. The property was annexed in 2008. There were numerous
extensions to the preliminary plat until they got the final plat done. The final plat was done
in 2016. When the property was annexed one of the conditions -- or excuse me. When
the property was annexed alternative compliance was granted. The property is directly
next to existing residential. There is a requirement that if you build a commercial use next
to residential that you have to supply a 25 foot wide landscape buffer. The alternative
compliance was to allow this landscape buffer to be reduced to as little as ten feet and a
condition of approval with that was that they had to put in a Verti-Crete wall, which is
basically a large concrete sound wall. I only say that because I will probably come back
to that. That ship has already sailed. Alternative compliance was already granted, but
they -- they don't meet the buffer, but they do have the wall that was required. So, this is
a request for a conditional use permit to allow a drive-through establishment. It's within
300 feet of an existing residence and it's within 300 feet of another drive-through facility
and that's what the requirements are. If one of those two are met or both you have to go
through a conditional use. Again, the property was annexed in 2008. It's one of three
commercial lots. A conditional use was approved for the lot on the north. That would be
the Rite-Aid. And that was approved to allow a drive-through facility on that Rite-Aid
within 300 feet of the residential properties, which are to the east. This would be another
drive-through establishment within 300 feet of that and 300 feet of the existing residential.
It's a 1,975 square feet Black Rock Coffee Shop. This drive-through establishment, again,
is within 300 feet of both. If you look at the site plan here, the site plan shows stacking
lanes. That's what you would see here. So, this is the stacking lane. As you probably
know, some of these drive-through coffee shops sometimes have a tendency to have
traffic parking -- backing out into the street. In this particular case we are a little less
concerned about that, because all of this is a parking lot, so if we did have one of those
days where there was a lot of people parked waiting to get their coffee it would spill into
the parking lot versus into the street. There is also an escape lane. This is required
anytime a stacking lane -- stacking lane is longer than a hundred feet. The way that this
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works is somebody comes in, they change their mind or somebody calls them, they realize
they forget something, they can jump into this escape lane here and get out without having
to wait all through the line. There is also a requirement in the specific use standards that
the window of the drive-through facility has to be visible from the street. That's for a safety
issue. You don't want to have a window on the other side of the building and have no
idea what's going on when there is being cash handled. The building -- excuse me. The
window in that case would be to the north, so you wouldn't be able to see that when you
are coming down Eagle Road south or from the parking lot at the Rite-Aid. There is an
outdoor speaker that is shown. It's -- and it's about 200 feet from the existing residence.
It's not labeled on here, but if you can see where my pointer is this is where that speaker
and that menu board would be. We --we did have some concerns about that being close
to the residential. Because of that we asked the applicant if they would submit to us a
decibel study that would sort of demonstrate what kind of sound impacts would be from
that speaker board. The applicant did do that decibel study and what it showed is that at
16 feet from the speaker it's about 36 decibels. To -- just to put that into context, 40 is
considered a whisper. So, at 16 feet it's about a whisper. The actual adjacent property
is 200 feet from that speaker. The property owner of the property to the east directly next
door, the house that's closest, submitted a letter to staff and this letter was in support of
this development. Basically, the -- the property owner said that this developer has done
a very good job working with them and has done everything that they have asked for them
to do and that he is confident that this would be fine and he has no issues with it and
urges support. Only other comment would be these elevations. Overall they are pretty
good. They are franchise type architecture. We do have some requirements in our
architectural standards manual that there has to be at least two field materials. This may
qualify, but the problem is is that -- and I don't want to get in all the --to get into the weeds
here, but one of those field materials can't be metal. In this case it looks like it is. So,
that's something that staff will work out with the applicant. But overall the architecture is
good with this. Again, we have received one letter of support. So, the -- the proposal
meets all the dimensional standards and it meets the specific use requirements for a
drive-through facility. Staff recommends approval with conditions and those conditions
included complying with the development agreement on the hours of operation being
between 6:00 and 10:00. Specifically at the applicant's request we -- we put it in the
conditional use that the -- the hours of operation would comply with the hours of the DA,
unless they were modified, and the reason why is the applicant may in the future want to
modify those hours through a DA mod and they don't want to have to also come in and
modify the conditional use. We also believe that it complies with the -- for the most part
the Architectural Standards Manual for the elevations, with probably some tweaks, and
the only other thing we commented about in our conditions is that there is a walkway that
you can see here. It's striped. On there the way that our code reads it says it has to be
brick pavers or some kind of material. It just can't be striped with that. I will stand for any
questions and staff is done with their presentation.
Seal: Okay. Thank you very much. Would the applicant --
Starman: Mr. Chairman, may I add a supplemental comment?
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Seal: Absolutely.
Starman: So, I just wanted to -- this is really for the record primarily and for the applicant,
but in the proposed conditions that are before the Commission tonight is condition --
proposed Condition A-15, which references the development agreement that Alan just
described and one provision in that development-- so, the condition essentially says this
project that you are considering tonight will be or shall be subject to those approvals that
happened previously, including the development agreement. There is a provision in that
development agreement that says that the owner-developer is responsible for
reimbursing the city for previous expenses to extend sewer and water to this site. We are
still doing some research as to whether that has occurred yet or not and so we are not
quite prepared to make a definitive statement, but I just wanted to put something on the
record that indicates that provision -- that provision in the DA is applicable and if that
payment has not -- a reimbursement has not yet occurred that would be a prerequisite
before construction could begin on this project. So, I just wanted the opportunity to put
that in the record. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Seal: Thank you. Appreciate that. Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Huber: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is Jeff Huber. My address
is 8385 West Emerald Street in Boise and I represent the applicant. We want to thank
staff for their report tonight. It was very thorough and we thank them for recommending
approval and we are in agreement with all of the conditions as stated in the report. One
of the neighbors has come a long ways here tonight. I don't know if they want to testify,
but they were late and are not on your sign-up sheet, so you might want to ask if there is
someone else that would like to address this.
Seal: Okay. Absolutely.
Huber: I stand for questions.
Seal: Is there any questions for applicant or staff? Commissioner Yearsley?
Yearsley: Mr. Chair. Just -- just want to clarify. I know most coffee shops like to start
before 6:00, but you are -- you are okay with starting at 6:00 o'clock then?
Huber: Well, we actually are planning to come back and modify the development
agreement to -- so that they start at 5:00.
Yearsley: Okay. That's why I was just curious. Thank you.
Seal: Anybody else have questions? All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Do
we have anybody --
Johnson: We do, Mr. Chair. Mr. Aldridge did sign in.
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Seal: Good evening, sir. If you could give us your name and address for the record.
Aldridge: Bob Aldridge. I'm at 3300 East Falcon Drive. Depending on how you look at it
they are either in my backyard or I'm in their backyard. We have been there since 1985
when life was much more simple. We have worked with this group now over quite a
number of years, working on initially the -- just general development and, then, through
the Rite-Aid and they have literally bent over backwards to accommodate us and I am
thoroughly confident that if any questions come up it will be settled. So, we had some
lighting issues from when it was first lit up and they went way out of the way to get those
solved. I don't have any problems with noise. As noted, the coffee speakers are pretty
low intensity. There is a tall wall in between us. I have got two giant trees there with
walnuts that for some reason are able to take over and drop on people's head in the Rite-
Aid and also the way this is laid out the traffic is never going to show any lights into our
property and plus we are pretty isolated and we have more trees on our property. So,
think it's a good project. It's a good usage. It's a lot lower impact than a lot of things that
could be there. So, very much in favor of it.
Seal: Okay. Thank you. Anybody have anything for -- no? All right. Thank you, sir.
Appreciate your testimony. Is there anybody else that wants to testify you can raise your
hand. If not, does the applicant have anything they would like to add further? Indicating
no. All right. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing for Item No. H-2022-0019.
Grove: So moved.
Lorcher: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded into close the public hearing for Item No. H-2022-
0019. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: Anybody would like to add more to the discussion or --
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: -- throw a motion out? Go right ahead.
Grove: Pretty simple when the applicant agrees with the staff report and the public
testimony with the neighbor most impacted is very supportive. So, I think we should be
able to move forward. So, with that, after considering all staff, applicant, and public
testimony, I move to approve File No. H-2022-0019 as presented in the staff report for
the hearing date of May 19th, 2022, with no modifications.
Yearsley: Second.
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Seal: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. H-2022-0019, Black Rock
Coffee with no modifications. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion
carries. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
5. Public Hearing for Peak at Sawtooth Village (H-2022-0026) by JGT
Architecture, Located at 4752 N. Linder Rd.
A. Request: A Conditional Use Permit for a drive-through establishment
within 300 feet of another drive-through facility, a residential district
and existing residences.
Seal: Okay. Next we will open File No. H-2022-0026 for Peak at Sawtooth Village. We
will begin with the staff report.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. The next application before
you is a request for a conditional use permit. This site consists of .93 of an acre of land.
It's zoned C-N, located at the southeast corner of North Linder Road in West McMillan
Road at 4752 North Linder Road. This property was annexed in 2013 with the
requirement of a development agreement and a preliminary plat was approved. A final
plat was later approved in 2015 for McLinder Subdivision. The Comprehensive Plan
future land use map designation is mixed use neighborhood. A conditional use is
proposed for a drive-through establishment within 300 feet of another drive-through
facility, which is directly to the south, and a residential district and existing residences,
which are kitty-corner to this site to the southeast in the C-N zoning district. A 4,846
square foot building is proposed to be constructed on the site with three tenant spaces.
A drive through is proposed on the westerly 2,200 square foot tenant space for a
restaurant. The tenant intends for the drive through to be more of a pick up location where
customers would order ahead through a mobile app, rather than ordering from a speaker
or window. No speaker or menu board is proposed at this time and there are specific use
standards in the UDC that pertain to drive-through establishments as follows: Stacking
lanes are required to have sufficient capacity to prevent obstruction of driveways, drive
aisles and the public right of way by patrons. The stacking lane proposed for the site will
accommodate approximately five vehicles, which the applicant believes will be sufficient
for their use and business model. Staff is concerned if the stacking lane backs up the
drive aisle on the north side of the building may obstruct vehicles trying to enter or exit
the parking spaces in that area. Also while the proposed stacking lane may accommodate
the proposed user, it may not be able to accommodate future users that may be more
intense without obstructing the drive aisle and parking on the north side of the building.
Second, the stacking lane is required to be a separate lane from the circulation lanes
needed for access and parking, except that stacking lanes may provide access to
designated employee parking. The stacking lane for the site is a separate lane from the
circulation lanes needed for access and parking on the west side of the building.
However, if stacking backs up around the north side of the building it could obstruct
parking in that area. There are also a few other standards the site is in compliance with.
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Item 1. May 19,2022 F16
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Based on staff's analysis the proposed drive through is deemed to be in general
compliance with the specific use standards as required. If the Commission does not feel
there is adequate stacking area to accommodate vehicles in the drive through without
obstructing the drive aisle needed for circulation and parking on the north side of the
building, revisions may be required to the site design. The proposed access and parking
complies with UDC standards. Conceptual building elevations were submitted as shown
that incorporate a mix of materials consisting of horizontal hardboard siding, stone,
veneer and glazing. The final design shall be consistent with the design standards listed
in the Architectural Standards Manual. Written testimony was received from the
applicant. They are in agreement with the staff report conditions of approval. Staff is
recommending approval. Staff will stand for any questions.
Seal: Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant like to come forward? Good evening. Your
name and address for the record, please.
Bevan: Yes. Tom Bevan. Address 4202 North Marcliffe Avenue, Boise. 83704.
Johnson: Can you pull that microphone towards you. Either one.
Bevan: I will take any questions. I don't really have anything to add to the staff report,
but be glad to take questions.
Seal: Anybody have any questions for the applicant? Mr. Grace, go ahead.
Grace: Mr. Chairman. Sir, so the -- it indicated that it was not intended -- well, let me get
this right. It was intended that people would use an app to place their orders and, then,
are they only going up to the window, then, to -- to just pick up the order?
Bevan: Yes. It's like a pick up location where there -- there is no menu board and there
is no speaker. You have the -- by app you order and, then, you go and pick it up and they
just hand it out to you.
Grace: How will they know it's ready I guess is --
Bevan: They do it through their smartphone.
Grace: They get notified over the smartphone --
Bevan: Yes.
Grace: -- that it's ready?
Bevan: When it's ready. Yeah. And they get a number and they come by and pick it up.
Grace: Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F17]
Page 14 of 30
Seal: Commissioner Yearsley, did you have something?
Yearsley: I just want to -- if you could address -- you know, I'm not quite sure what
business this is or -- or if it's an established business. If -- if the use does change, how
do we ensure that we have enough stacking or not having issues in the -- in the future
with only having five parking spaces? Is there, you know, other conditions or things that
we can consider to provide for more stacking if-- if necessary in the future based on staff's
comments that they just presented.
Bevan: Well, I guess we could address that. The -- the tenant has signed a ten year
lease, so -- so -- but in the future after that -- I don't know. I guess we would have to look
at it again.
Lorcher: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Lorcher, go ahead.
Lorcher: In regard to Commissioner Yearsley's comment, so after that tenant leaves
would the next business have to get a conditional use permit to address the stacking lane
that you are addressing?
Seal: No, they wouldn't have to. I guess I will kind of pile on here a little bit. So, while
this is an operation if they wanted to put out -- if they wanted to change the business
model let's say, like this isn't working purely online, what would they need to go to through
-- and, Sonya, this is kind of a question for you probably more or less. If they did want to
put out a -- you know, a menu and a microphone and -- and all that, is there a process
they would need to go through or they -- they basically are conditioned to use it as they
see fit in that regard?
Allen: Mr. Chair, Commissioners, as is there is no condition prohibiting a menu and
speaker. You could certainly include that. That would apply to this user, as well as future
users of the drive-through.
Seal: Okay. And that -- I think the reasoning behind this is -- I think the use that you are
proposing, at least in my mind, if people are coming --and --and there are a lot of services
that work like this now, so -- that's how I get my haircuts anymore, so -- they let me know
when to come and I go and they cut may hair and I leave. So, it's pretty nice to do that.
So, I understand a little bit of the business model that's going on here. That said, if the
-- if it does change and I ride to dinner and go to this facility here quite a bit, I can see
where if that model changed and people were waiting, if it wraps around it's going to make
it really hard for people to not block that -- you know, the private drive that's in there or
private drive I guess I should say, you know, as far as traffic goes and -- I mean the other
part of it is if you get somebody that's waiting at the window, somebody that's trying to
use the escape lane, because there are other businesses in this -- I mean it's not just the
one business in the building, there are several businesses. So, if you have somebody
parking in the diagonal parking to the west side of the building, you have somebody that's
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F18
Page 15 of 30
in the escape lane, you have somebody that's ordering -- or picking up I should say, that's
-- you know, I drive a full size truck, so if you got three of those trying to do those
maneuvers in there I just don't know that it's going to fit, so --
Bevan: Well, I could say that I talked to the tenant about that, actually, what they do in
other locations and they do this same thing in almost all their locations and they haven't
changed it. They say it works very well. So, I don't think that this tenant would change
it, because it works so well for them in other locations. It's a national chain. The Goose,
but --well, I guess it's more of a regional chain, but -- so, they -- they like the process and
it works well and I asked them do you want us to put something in there for a speaker
later and he said, no, I don't want any speaker wires or I don't want any pre- planned
menu board, wires, or lighting or anything like that. They just don't use them.
Seal: Okay.
Yearsley: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go ahead.
Yearsley: Would you be amenable if we added the condition to -- you know, that -- to not
allow a menu board or a speaker without prior approval?
Bevan: In the condition? Yeah, we could go with that.
Yearsley: Okay.
Seal: Okay. Are there any other questions? No? All right. If you want to have a quick
seat we will see if anybody is --
Bevan: Thank you.
Seal: -- anybody is going to testify online or -- I don't think we have anybody in the
audience. No? Okay. I will assume there is nothing further to add at this point. So, if
somebody would like to give me a motion to close the public hearing.
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
Grove: I move to close the public hearing for Peak at Sawtooth Village, File No. H-2022-
0026.
Grace: Second.
Yearsley: Second. Oh.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F19
Page 16 of 30
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for File No. H-2022-
0026, Peak at Sawtooth Village. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion
carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: Who would like to go first?
Yearsley: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Yearsley, go ahead.
Yearsley: I -- I agree with the concerns of staff and I understand -- and I think if -- if -- if
this works I think it's a great idea, but I would be amenable to -- or I would like to see that
condition to not allow a menu board or a speaker without prior additional conditional use
permit or additional approval.
Seal: Okay. I agree with that as well. Commissioner Grace?
Grace: Mr. Chairman, I think that's a great recommendation. I agree with that. I probably
still have concerns that there might be stacking and based on the depiction what that
would mean for, you know, people parking and -- but I'm willing to allow for what the
applicant said about, you know, it's been done before and it's -- it's not a problem. I do
-- I do question -- I do worry about potential further future I should say tenants there, so I
-- I agree with Commissioner Yearsley. I think that's a great recommendation.
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
Grove: I think maybe just to have it on the record for some of the thinking here, though,
is with the -- if it does ever come back for an additional CUP to add the speaker board, I
think having the applicant at that point in time look at relocating the -- the placement of
the --the pick up window would be an appropriate thing to --at least can strongly consider
and moving it to the south side versus the west side if-- if-- if a speaker board does come
in, because it would improve the stacking capacity. I will say one thing that works in the
favor of this is, you know, it's overparked a little bit, so that does give some additional
leeway in terms of how they could operate, you know, with running orders out and things
like that. So, I'm not as concerned if there was not that additional overparking.
Seal: Okay. Anyone else?
Yearsley: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F20
Page 17 of 30
Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony I move to approve
File No. H-2022-0026 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of May 19th,
2022, with the following modifications: That no menu board or speaker may be allowed
without prior approval from the city.
Seal: Do I have a second?
Grove: Second.
Seal: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. H-2022-0026 for Peak
at Sawtooth Village with the aforementioned modifications. All in favor say aye. Any
opposed?
Parsons: Mr. Chair, just a clarification for Sonya and myself.
Seal: All right.
Parsons: I think it was your intent to say come back and get CUP approval, if I'm
understanding correctly.
Yearsley: Yes.
Parsons: All right. Thank you.
Yearsley: Absolutely.
Seal: All right. Thank you very much for that. So, none -- none -- none were opposed,
so motion -- motion carries. All right. Thanks very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
6. Public Hearing for Bountiful Commons East (H-2022-0015) by KM
Engineering, LLP, Located at 5960 and 5984 N. Linder Rd.
Recommended Approval of Request B to City Council (request A is
only a City Council decision) — Scheduled for June 14, 2022
A. Request: Modification to the Existing Development Agreement
(Linder Mixed Use - Inst. #2018-052340) to update the conceptual
development plan and building elevations.
B. Request: Combined Preliminary and Final Plat consisting of three (3)
building lots on 2.20 acres of land in the C-C zoning district.
Seal: All right. At this time we will open up File No. H-2022-0015, which is Bountiful
Commons East, and we will begin with the staff report.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F21
Page 18 of 30
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. The next application before
you is a request for a combined preliminary and final plat. There is also a concurrent
development agreement modification application that will be heard by the City Council
that does not require the Commission action tonight. This site consists of 2.2 acres of
land. It's zoned C-C and it's located at 5960 North Linder Road. This property was
annexed in 2017 with the requirement of a development agreement. A preliminary and
final plat was approved in 2018. A property boundary adjustment was recently approved
this year, which established the current configuration of the property. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is mixed use community. As I
mentioned earlier, the -- the modification to the existing development agreement is
proposed to update the conceptual development plan and remove the conceptual building
elevations for Chili's from the agreement and replace them with concept elevations for
the proposed single story commercial and office buildings. Changes to the concept plan
consists of replacing the 7,000 and 10,000 square foot buildings with a shared outdoor
plaza area in between the two buildings as shown on the site plan there on the left with
four multi-tenant commercial and office buildings with individual outdoor plazas at the rear
of each building and that site plan is shown there on the left as well. Staff is
recommending changes to the concept plan that consists of removal of the parking
spaces on the west side of the site that back out into the backage road and removal of
the parking in between each set of buildings for the provision of common usable area and
plaza area as required in the development agreement and the Comprehensive Plan for
mixed use designated areas. These changes should be made prior to the City Council
hearing per the staff report. Again, this application is not before you for a recommendation
tonight and this is purely informational. A combined preliminary and final plat is proposed
as shown to resubdivide a portion of Lot 1 and all of Block -- excuse me -- all of Lot 4,
Block 1, Bountiful Common Subdivision. The proposed plat consists of three buildable
lots on 2.2 acres of land. The preliminary plat is shown on the left and the proposed final
plat is shown on the right. The proposed plat consists of three buildable lots on 2.2 acres
of land. Access to the subdivision exists via a private driveway and backage road that
runs along the west boundary of the site parallel to North Linder Road. This is a copy of
their proposed landscape plan for the site. There are no public streets that abut this
property. Written testimony has been received from Stephanie Hopkins, KM Engineering,
the applicant. They are not in favor of amending the concept plan as recommended by
staff. Staff is recommending approval of the combined preliminary and final plat with the
conditions in the staff report. Staff will stand for any questions.
Seal: Thank you, Sonya. Would the applicant like to come forward? Good evening. Just
need your name and address for the record.
Hopkins: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. Stephanie Hopkins with
KM Engineering. Our address is 5725 North Discovery Way in Boise. 83713. 1 have a
presentation. I don't know if Sonya has it up quite yet. I also have a flash drive if that's
easier. Sorry about that.
Allen: No. No. Just a second here. All right. Sorry about that, Stephanie. Get it opened
here.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F22
Page 19 of 30
Seal: It's beautiful weather we are having lately.
Hopkins: Okay. Very chilly today.
Seal: It was a little chilly.
Hopkins: Compared to the last couple days.
Seal: Blow all the pollen elsewhere.
Hopkins: I know. Thank you. Okay. So, Sonya did a great job summarizing our request.
I won't go over too many of the details she already covered, but this property is south of
Linder Village. It's just east of Linder Road and south of Chinden Boulevard. It was
originally part of the Bountiful Common Subdivision. This is I think Lots 1 and 4 within
that original subdivision and we are going to be calling it Bountiful Commons East. We
recently did a property boundary adjustment. Used to be -- the backwards L -- used to
be a little corner there, as well it was part of Lot 1 that's now been taken out of the property
and so we are proposing to subdivide the remainder into three commercial lots, as Sonya
mentioned. We are requesting a couple of changes to staff's recommendation on the
development agreement modification. We are proposing to update the development
agreement with the new concept plan that we are proposing. This is the original concept
plan. Shows a 7,000 square foot building and 10,000 square foot building with central
open space or a common open space in the center there, with surface parking lots, and
this is our proposed concept plan. So, the -- up in the northwest portion of the site is the
-- the lot that was taken out with the property boundary adjustment. So, the remainder
will be the three lots that will be in the combined preliminary and final plat and so the
concept plan that we are showing now does not have a central open space, but it has four
open plazas for each of the multi-tenant buildings that we are proposing. They will be
connected with sidewalk throughout the site and will connect ultimately to the drive aisle
that's to the east -- or to the west. This is conceptual elevations that we are proposing for
the buildings. They are multi-tenant buildings. Don't have users in place quite yet, but
the intent really behind updating the development agreement is to have a little bit of
flexibility with the concept plan and the elevations that we are proposing, so that we can
be flexible for future tenants and make sure that if there is someone that comes in that
maybe wants to do a property boundary adjustment to get rid of a lot line or modify the --
the existing concept plans of -- say somebody wants to come in and actually build a
building across Lot 7 and Lot 8, they could come in and do an administrative lot -- or
property boundary adjustment to get rid of that line and -- and build a building. So, we
would really like to have some flexibility with the concept plan that's attached to the
development agreement, as well as the elevations that are included in our request. So,
this is the combined preliminary and final plat. Three commercial lots taking access from
the private drive aisle that goes north-south that was recently constructed and we are
going to be installing a 25 foot landscape buffer adjacent to the existing residential homes
on the eastern part of the site. That will happen with site development of those two lots.
So, as Sonya mentioned, we are requesting to modify a couple of her conditions -- or a
couple of conditions that are attached to her recommendation and that is to remove ten
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F23
Page 20 of 30
parking spaces that are on the west boundary of the site adjacent to the private north-
south drive aisle. As you can see on our concept plan, we are currently showing ten
parking spaces that come right off of that drive aisle and to replace parking areas between
Buildings A and B and C and D with plazas, with a public, quasi-public, open space. So,
that is so that we can have more flexibility and parking for future tenants. As you are all
aware, restaurants and some uses require a lot more parking than other uses and
because we don't have users in place for the three lots that we are proposing it would be
nice to be able to have some flexibility for future tenants to make sure that we are
providing adequate parking for folks, as well as remaining flexible for anyone that might
want to come in and modify the site. The requirement for the mixed use community land
use, which is the designation that we are in, does require -- I think it's five percent public,
quasi-public open space and this property was initially part of a five acre piece that was
within -- per the development agreement. This is two -- a little over two acres. It's a
smaller site and it's difficult to put open space in a location, so it would really be preferred
to have them individually located on each lot to make sure that -- not only for installation,
but to make sure that it's easily maintained by those buildings, rather than the entire office
complex. It would also be difficult to make sure that a central open space was installed
at one time if it was in the center of these four lots. So, that's -- that's the reasoning
behind that request. These are the plaza areas that we are proposing. Additionally there
is some -- a pretty large chunk of open space that's going to be provided with the Linder
Village Subdivision -- or the Linder Village development to the north. It's going to be a
public park that has parking and micro paths that kind of go through it, so this -- this is a
schematic to show you how that might work. People from the office complex or whatever
uses decide to locate here could easily walk up to that open space and -- and hang out
there. I think it was probably -- this area is going to be a little bit more of a draw for folks,
residents and employees in the area than the -- the complex that we are talking about
would be. These are just some photos of the drive aisle to show kind of how it's currently
configured and how that might function. So, the Beehive Federal Credit Union is
constructed and it's to our west and, then, our property is the undeveloped property on
your left. As you can see it's not very busy right now. There is not any vehicles coming
or going and there is no one parked on the side of the road. This is an example of how I
think that parking off of that drive aisle would function. This -- this is a complex on the
right-hand side of your screen that's over off of Eagle Road. It's just north of Chinden
Boulevard where there is a Reel Theater and some other stuff over there. They have
kind of a similar configuration where they have got a -- Eagle Road is actually a state
highway, so it's probably a little more heavily trafficked than Linder Road is, but folks can
come in off of the arterial roadway and go into a local collector and, then, come onto a
drive aisle where they have diagonal parking in place and I have been in this complex
several times and it seems to work pretty well. It actually tends to slow traffic down, so
folks know that it's meant to be a place to stop. It's a destination. It's not a thoroughfare.
So, with that we -- we think that the addition of these commercial uses will be a benefit to
the city. We are excited for this project and really looking forward to continue working
with the city on it. I would like to hear your opinions, I guess, on the development
agreement modification request, as I know you won't be making a recommendation to
City Council, but we are interested to kind of know, you know, what maybe your opinions
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F24
Page 21 of 30
are. With that I will stand for any questions. The developer is here tonight, too, if you
have any that I can't answer.
Seal: Thank you. Questions for applicant or staff?
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
Grove: So, Stephanie, with this change it sounds like the intent is to have it be more
office and not have any restaurant retail operations. Is that the intent or --
Hopkins: Mr. Chair, Commissioner Grove, I will probably defer to our client on that. I
don't know -- they don't have any users in place that I'm familiar with. The northwest
parcel that we separated off of the property boundary adjustment is going to be a dentist,
so that is an office -- kind of a professional office use. There will probably be a fair amount
of parking needed for that kind of use, as I'm sure they will have several chairs and several
appointments at a time. But the other lots I don't know that they have any specific kinds
of uses in mind and I think that they can come up and kind of --
Grove: The reason I'm asking is it -- I guess it -- we don't have a -- a say on how that
plays out tonight, but just in terms of how we are conceptualizing the -- the use and why
we would, you know, be in favor or against not having a more centralized usable space
amongst the -- the -- the four uses. I struggle with the general concept that as provided,
because it -- it doesn't tie into the larger mixed use of-- of the area when it's very isolated.
It's not isolated -- because it's very -- very small. But it -- I just -- you are asking for some
feedback and that's -- that would be my feedback is I don't -- I don't personally like how
that is integrating currently. I know we don't have a say, but just my -- my two cents.
Hopkins: Commissioner, thank you for your feedback. If I might ask a question.
Seal: Go right ahead.
Hopkins: Would it be preferred or maybe help the situation if there was a pathway leading
from our site plan at some point to the -- the open space that's to the north?
Grove: For me it's -- the -- the pathway would definitely help. It's the -- trying to think of
good words and it's later in the day for me, but it's just -- it's not tied together. It's four
separate entities and not one -- being looked at as one development, essentially. I know
it might get built out as four separate things, but it doesn't look like the -- an integrated
plan with how they would function together. But, you know, there are -- there are four
parts and they are not four parts of a whole.
Hopkins: Thank you for the feedback.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F25
Page 22 of 30
Seal: Yeah. And I mean the -- the feedback I will give is just on the -- the drive aisle
really where -- and we have a drive aisle that's coming down -- it looks like the bulb outs
and the -- and the trash receptacle is going to kind of impede that. I mean if-- if anything
can be done -- and I can see why Sonya put that in there as far as those ten parking
spots, the bulb outs, and everything, that looks like it's going to push right into that drive
aisle. The more you can keep that open the better it's going to be for everybody, your
neighbors, your customers, everybody involved. So, you know, and depending on who
you market this for, you know, having open areas, especially in between the buildings,
there is -- if you have been to -- down by the Capri Cafe, it's just south of this, they have
an open plaza that's in there. It gets used a ton by the businesses that are in there, but,
you know, of course, you have, essentially, you know, a -- a dining establishment and a
brewery, basically, sharing that space and they do have a nice pathway that goes right
into the residential area there, so that's very, very nice to where if you have something
like that and you have just a parking lot, kind of difficult to go the other way. So, I don't
know if there is a way to, you know, kind of mash this up a little bit, maybe come up with
a better solution overall. I think that the -- you know, the small amount of common area
off the back is helpful. I mean you can have some patio out there if you do have a
restaurant or something along those lines. If you do have a dentist office that's wasted
space, so -- I mean I don't -- in my dentist I would prefer to wait outside, but I don't have
that option. But, anyway, that's -- I mean the feedback that I can give on it that's -- that's
what I'm seeing of it. So, you know, it would be nice to see that drive aisle opened up,
the bulb outs taken away, that parking -- you know, sacrificed, substituted. You are
overparked, which is great. Thank you very much. It's not often that we are talking about
taking parking spaces away. So, high marks for that for sure, but that's -- you know, the
way that I look at it -- I mean there is other stuff that's going on here that kind of plays into
this where you have, you know, a larger space for a business opportunity and just north
of this you have multi-story live-work. So, you know, somebody that, you know, they are
making their side hustle their hustle, they are, you know, working -- or living in the multi-
story live-work and now they need to expand. Well, here is some place to do that, so --
and they happen to have a nice library up the road, so -- had to say that for the benefit of
this guy here, so -- anyway, that's the feedback that I have on it. I mean I -- I think that a
-- a connection into the walking path to the common area in the north would be great. I
mean the more connected things are the better I -- I think. I don't think it presents any
kind of issues as far as, you know, anybody having nefarious behavior in there trying to,
you know, do something -- get away or do anything like that. I think it just provides for
better accessibility. Anybody else? Sorry, I rambled on long enough.
Grace: Yeah. Mr. Chairman. Stephanie and I -- I'm just kind of going off of what -- what
Commissioner Seal said and I have two questions and I apologize if you already went
over this and I missed it, but on that north side what -- what's the transition into that park
area? I -- I just wasn't catching that.
Hopkins: Mr. Chair, Commissioner Grace, right now I don't believe we are showing any
walkway along the drive aisle. So, the transition up to the north would be just for folks to
walk along the drive aisle to the -- the pathway that's existing.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F26]
Page 23 of 30
Grave: Okay. But there is not a fence or anything, you could walk to it.
Hopkins: Mr. Chair, Commissioner Grace, I don't believe there is a fence and I don't know
that our client has plans. No, they are -- they are shaking their heads that they don't have
plans.
Grace: Okay. The second question -- I think I know the answer to it, but just to confirm,
that -- the language in the -- in the application about the event center, that was the
previous version of it and that's no longer happening.
Hopkins: That's correct.
Grace: Okay. Thank you.
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Grove, go ahead.
Grove: Just real quick. So, I won't belabor it too much, but just looking at -- I -- I'm not a
fan of the parking on the drive aisle. I think that it has a potential of causing more
problems than it solves. I think having a -- a walking connection, a pedestrian connection,
would help this project in the -- in the future to be able to connect to the larger
development to the north. You know, it's -- that's a large development going on up there
and anything that you could do to, you know, connect the two would -- I would think
probably help you have that -- the feel of it just being an extension of what is available to
the public up there. So, again, we don't have anything to stipulate here, but just kind of
some feedback.
Hopkins: Okay. Thank you.
Yearsley: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Mr. Yearsley, go ahead.
Yearsley: So, I -- I guess I'm a little conflicted, because looking at the building styles that
you are looking -- to me it feels more like a strip mall type facility, but, yet, you are -- you
are trying to market this more of an office type setting, which I think understanding, you
know, what's -- what's on the plan to what's actually being proposed, you know, because
if it's more office style I don't know if the --you know, the open space is going to be utilized
nearly as much versus strip mall style, so -- and I guess that's -- that's where I struggle
with at this point, trying to make a decision on -- on how best to move forward with this,
so --
Hopkins: Mr. -- Mr. Chair, Commissioner Yearsley, I -- I'm looking back at our client as
you are talking and I think that they are planning to pursue more of an office use for the
buildings. That being said, they don't have users in place -- yeah. Maybe -- thank you.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F27
Page 24 of 30
Yearsley: That would be awesome.
Seal: Yeah. Just let us know who you are -- I mean you are -- you are spending money
here, so there has got to be a marketing plan.
Gasser: Trevor Gasser. 74 East 500 South, Suite 200, Bountiful, Utah. 84010.
Appreciate you guys listening to our -- our concept plan here and, really, we are looking
for more of a professional office, you know. Right now we have a dentist going in to the
piece that we parceled off. I see this more as like insurance companies, brokerages, that
type of user. So, yes, I do think it is going to be more professional office. There could be
some retail component in there, but, you know, I think most retail -- or most retailers like
to be right on Linder Road and this is offset a little bit and as far as restaurant use to
parking for our development -- or at least for my development, I want to have as much
parking as I can. I know right now I -- I probably don't have enough for a restaurant I
would say or it would be tight. I'm trying to do four to five stalls per thousand square feet
for office tenants. You know, I know dentists are heavy on the parking spaces and so
that's why I have just tried to provide as much parking as I can. One thing I -- I did want
to -- how do I go back on this? Oh. I wanted to just show you guys what's -- what's just
to the south of here. So, there is an office development right here with parking up in front
of all of these buildings that you -- you -- I mean it's right on the drive aisle. So, that --
that's where I have kind of kept in with that same. There -- there is -- there is just this
office complex and it comes up through here. So, there is no -- no traffic through a
residential neighborhood. It is -- there is not a lot of traffic on this development. There is
also this -- we have also got a -- a curve in the road here that is kind of like a -- a speed,
you know, calmer as well. So, I -- you know, that is my reasoning for putting parking up
there. Plus, also, I -- I feel like, you know, tenants -- they -- they like to have parking on
-- on all sides of the building where -- where these could be individual clients or tenants
and -- and have access -- you know, doors on -- on either side right here and it just gives
them a little more exposure and so, you know, I just felt with what -- what had happened
to the south, there is -- there is no traffic. I would be happy to put, you know, speed limit
signs on there, just to make sure everybody is -- is driving and responsible and -- but that
was my reasoning for that. The other reasoning, you know, just -- if I'm going to take out
all this parking, that's ten stalls -- another ten stalls, another ten stalls. I'm -- I'm taking
out 30 stalls per staff recommendations. I just don't feel like I -- you know, with --with the
park, with all the open space, I would be -- I would be happy to, you know, provide an
access way up to the park. I could -- I could provide two, you know, because parking is
just so important for the development. There is a 25 foot landscape barrier right here
that, you know, we could --we could maybe do some -- some common plaza space within
that, too. I don't know what your thoughts would be. I know we are just kind of bouncing
ideas off, but I -- I would kind of like to hear your ideas before I go to City Council.
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Grove, go ahead.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F28
Page 25 of 30
Grove: I can appreciate not wanting to lose 30 spots. That -- you know, that is a lot,
especially with what you -- you are wanting to do. I would highly recommend, though, at
a minimum looking at those west parking spots. I know, you know, there -- there is
examples of other ones here. I think that the uniqueness of this is a little bit different
though. You are not coming off of a 90 degree to get into that space at the same as you
would where those parcels to the -- to the south that you pointed out. So, that -- it's kind
of a blind spot if you are coming south to north. It -- just trying to help you limit future
problems. I think having -- using some of that more as, you know, a potential pedestrian
connection from what's to the north of you and what's to the south of you, I would much
-- I would much rather see that personally, having a -- a pedestrian, you know, pathway
of sorts versus the -- the parking on that side.
Gasser: Appreciate your comment, Commissioner. We -- we did provide a pedestrian
access way that comes all the way along this side. We were required to have one, you
know, on -- on one of the sides and so that was put in. But, no, I -- we will -- we will go
back and see what we can do there. I just -- parking is such a big deal. But, anyways,
-- I do appreciate you guys taking a look at it and give me your comments. Any other
comments?
Grace: Mr. Chairman, just another -- I don't have a solution for you, but just another
comment. I do know that since that access road has connected there to Plaza Shops
Drive, I think it's a pretty heavily used alternative now for the high school students coming
out of Rocky and going to Winco or doing whatever. So, although it may not be, you
know, as busy now, I -- I think it's progressively getting more busy and just another
consideration for when you go to City Council. Thanks.
Gasser: Sure.
Seal: Yeah. I was going to say, that's a -- a really good point and I do -- my -- my eye
doctor and my chiropractor are just south of this, so --
Gasser: Okay.
Seal: -- I use the -- the -- the buildings in here and I -- and I do appreciate what you are
saying about how that is, but within -- I mean to me that's kind of within a complex and at
the same time what you just said about, you know, how close it is to the high school and
everything, it's not going to take very long before they all figure out, hey, I can get up to
Winco through all this. I actually thought that that was blocked off at the -- at the school,
but seeing that it's not, that's probably going to be happening -- happening in there. So,
you know, again, where it's not designed like the buildings down below are, I -- I think you
would be better off to go ahead and remove that parking on the -- on the west side
personally and keep that drive aisle a little bit more open. As far as more -- you know,
eliminating parking spots for open space, if we knew what was going in there that would
be a much easier decision, so -- you know, I mean if it's going to be a lot of, you know,
kind of restaurant type things, you know, I mean, obviously, you want to have all the
parking you can, but at the same time open areas would help facilitate having customers
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F29
Page 26 of 30
inside and outside of your establishment. So, you know, like I said, I -- I mean the -- as
far as the drive aisle, that's really not something that we are -- that's not in our purview
tonight, but just for the feedback part of it.
Gasser: No. I appreciate that.
Seal: Yeah. I was going to say I think that the -- I think the first provision in there that
you guys are a little bit in disagreement about -- I think that that's a good one and we will
probably more than likely -- I can't speak for my fellow Commissioners and I actually can't
make a motion, which is wonderful, but I think that one will probably stick and the second
one -- you know, we can debate that a little bit more.
Gasser: Sure. I mean ten stalls is better than 30. So -- yeah. No. I appreciate you
giving me your recommendations.
Seal: Okay. And I have got to tell you if Sonya is saying we can eliminate parking, then,
you have done a great job on parking.
Lorcher: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Lorcher, go ahead.
Lorcher: So, after all this discussion remind me what are we voting on tonight.
Seal: We are voting on the preliminary and final plat. We are not the -- the DA
modification goes to City Council.
Lorcher: So, the preliminary and final plat is to -- to take out the -- the Chili's and the
event center and change it to these four individual buildings and the last discussion was
just to remove the parking on the common aisle on the west; is that correct? Or am I
missing something?
Seal: You will do a better job at this than I will.
Allen: Chairman, Commissioner, the only application that's before you tonight is the
subdivision -- the proposed combined preliminary and final plat and that -- that is just a
lot line boundary -- property line thing. It's not a site design. The site design and the site
plan is associated with the development agreement modification.
Lorcher: Okay. All right.
Yearsley: Mr. Chair. Just follow up with that, Sonya. So, the site plan modification, is
that as part of the DA of agreement that you are asking for and so at that point our -- our
motion is if we want to keep those 20 spaces would be we recommend to Council -- I
don't -- I'm trying to figure out motion wise what -- you know, what are we -- what are we
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F30
Page 27 of 30
trying to say here? Because we are -- we can't say to leave those spaces, but we can
say we would recommend maybe to leave them. Is that what we are looking for or --
Allen: Chair, Commissioner Yearsley, your motion should be directly related to the
preliminary and final plat. If you choose to provide an unofficial recommendation on the
development agreement modification you can do so.
Yearsley: Okay.
Allen: It's not what's before you tonight.
Yearsley: Okay. That's -- that's what I want to make sure --
Allen: Do you have anything else to add feel free.
Seal: So, yes, I will -- go ahead, Kurt.
Starman: I think that's a good description. Really from the city staff perspective we -- we
probably should have cued this up a little bit differently in terms of how we agendized it.
Really, the discrete item before the Commission side is just the preliminary and final plat
and even that is a recommendation to the City Council, not an action item or not for final
approval tonight. And, then, really, the way the city's ordinance is structured, the
recommendation on the concept plan for the DA comes from the Community
Development director and that is made to the Council and the Council makes that
decision. So, I think Sonya was quite accurate that, really, you have a discrete action
before you, which is a preliminary and final plat. That's a recommendation to the Council.
If you have -- I will use Sonya's description. If you have some informal comments that
you would like to work into a motion relative to the site plan, I don't think there is any harm
in that, but that's not really before you tonight.
Yearsley: Okay.
Seal: So, essentially, we would -- wording such as we would recommend to City Council
keeping provision 8-A-1, striking -- you know --
Yearsley: Yes.
Seal: -- those lines. So --
Yearsley: Or we could just close the public hearing and say we recommend leaving the
-- the -- the two parking spaces and that, you know, Council --- Council -- or staff -- or
Planning and Zoning will actually -- I -- you know, I would imagine express our
recommendations based on just our discussion I would assume, so -- yeah. I don't know
if we need to do it in the motion or not.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F31
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Seal: Okay. Real quick is there anybody signed up to give public testimony? I'm
guessing not. Nobody else is in Chambers. So, unless there is anything else to add --
okay. Could I get a motion to close the public hearing for H-2022-0015?
Lorcher: So moved.
Grove: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for Item No. H-2022-
0015. All in favor, please, say aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: Anymore discussion?
Yearsley: Mr. Chair, I will just say I -- I hadn't expressed my concerns on this. I -- given
that this is marketed to be more of a professional office type facility, I don't see an issue
with leaving the ten parking spaces in between the two buildings on each side. I do agree
that the west parking probably should be eliminated. However, the one on the -- the lower
west -- the -- the -- the lower section there, it looks like there is quite a bit of room there
that you could potentially back out safely, but -- so -- but I'm -- I'm good either way on that
-- that west side.
Seal: Okay. Anybody else?
Lorcher: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Lorcher, go ahead.
Lorcher: I was fine with the parking on the west side until you told me it was all high
school students running through.
Seal: Well --
Lorcher: So, you know, if people -- if people are backing out and -- especially at that
bottom left corner and it is kind of a blind corner and kids are going through for lunch, you
know, or whomever, there could be some potential conflicts there. So, I would be in
support of eliminating the western parking. But that's not really our -- that's just -- that
has nothing really to do with us, so there is my opinion.
Grove: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Go right ahead.
Grove: In terms of what we are recommending approval on, I -- I don't see any issues.
You know, ideally I would love to have seen an event center here, just because we need
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F32
Page 29 of 30
more event space, especially in -- in this, you know, growing area. I know that that's not
always the easiest thing to monetize and -- and can -- can have some unique challenges.
I -- I would love to see that, but in -- in lieu of that being, you know, where the applicant
is going or wanting to go, I -- I see no -- no issues with the preliminary plat and final plat
as presented.
Seal: Okay. Commissioner Grace?
Grace: Mr. Chairman, I would -- 1, too, don't have any issues with the parking between
the buildings. The -- I'm torn on the parking on the west side. I don't feel as strongly
negatively about it, but -- I don't know. Maybe there is something they could do -- make
it employee parking or something. I don't know. But based on what we are -- what is
before us, yeah, I'm -- I'm in favor of it.
Seal: Okay. You have all spoke, so now somebody gets to make a motion.
Yearsley: Mr. Chair?
Seal: Commissioner Yearsley, go ahead.
Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to City Council of File No. H-2022-0015 as presented in the staff
report for the hearing date of May 19th, 2022, with no modifications. However, we would
recommend -- or, you know, we do like the idea of leaving the parking in between the two
buildings.
Seal: Do I have a second?
Grove: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. H-2022-0015 with no
modifications. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries. Thank
you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: I will take one more motion.
Grace: Mr. Chairman, I move to adjourn.
Yearsley: Second.
Seal: It has been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor? Opposed? All
right. Motion passes. Thanks, everyone.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission
Item 1. May 19,2022 F33
Page 30 of 30
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:24 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
APPROVED
ANDREW SEAL - CHAIRMAN
Approved 6-2-2022
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK