2020-10-22 Special Joint Ada County Highway District40 TT TT
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Ada County Highway District and City of Meridian
Joint Meeting Agenda
Thursday, October 22, 2020 18:00 AM
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AGENDA
Roll -Call Attendance:
PRESENT
Mayor Robert E. Simison
Councilman Joe Borton
Councilman Brad Hoaglun
Councilman Treg Bernt
Councilwoman Jessica Perreault
Councilwoman Liz Strader
Councilman Luke Cavener
City of Meridian - Linder Road Overpass Discussion
2. Eagle and Amity Roundabout Discussion
Meeting Adjourned at 9:21 am
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Item#3.
Meridian City Council -ACHD JOINT MEETING October 22, 2020.
A Joint Meeting of the Meridian City Council and Ada County Highway District was called
to order at 8:00 a.m., Thursday, October 22, 2020.
Council Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt,
Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
ACHD: Mary May, Kent Goldthorpe, Rebecca Arnold, Jim Hansen and Sara Baker.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
Meridian:
Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
ACHD:
Arnold _X_ Hansen
_X_ Goldthorpe _X_ Baker
_X_ President Mary May
Baker: All right. Thank you very much, Director Wong. Welcome, everyone, to the
October 22nd Joint ACHD-City of Meridian meeting. I will now call the ACHD commission
portion to order and note for the record that all commissioners are present. Mayor
Simison, if you would, please, do the same for the city.
Simison: Yes. Thank you. As you stated, for the record it is October 22nd at 8:00 a.m.
We have four of our current Council Members present at this time. If we could identify --
do a quick roll call. I will do that, Mr. Clerk. So, Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Present.
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Here.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Here.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
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Hoaglun: Here.
Simison: And I do not see that we have Councilman Cavener or Council Woman Perreault
at this time.
1. City of Meridian - Linder Road Overpass Discussion
May: All right. Thank you very much. Just one housekeeping point of order. If everybody
could just mute their microphone when someone else is speaking, it just cuts down on a
little bit of that interference. So, with that, Mayor Simison, welcome again everyone. We
are glad to have you here with us today. We will turn it over to you, as you have the first
item here on the agenda.
Simison: Thank you, Commissioner May. So, in my regular meetings with Director Wong
and Council -- Commission President, the conversation of Linder Road overpass has
come up and when the city sent our five year work plan comments in we -- we noted that
this was a high priority for the City of Meridian and even identified a few projects that we
would recommend maybe downgrading in order to move it up in ACHD's consideration.
It's been something that the previous councils have -- have really -- I think the last two
years they have really started to move this one higher up on the priority and it has gained
greater interest from the Council and this Council it still remains high on the interest, so
in our conversations it was recommended that we have a joint discussion about this
specific project, so that we can express our interest in moving this forward and hear from
the commission your viewpoints on this project and what it would take in order for it to
move forward in an appropriate fashion. Obviously, with spanning the interstate it has its
own challenges with having to work with ITD and those elements, so we want to be
proactive as much as we can to get this project ready for consideration and, then, to the
five year work plan and move it forward. So, that's where I will go ahead and stop my
comments and for the record we do have all of our Council Members -- with Council
Woman Perreault and Councilman Cavener have now joined us on the call. So, I will -- I
will ask Councilman Cavener, anyways, as a member of our Transportation Commission,
if -- he sits on that with them if he has anything else that we need to add from
conversations at our Transportation Commission level.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, thanks. It's tough to respond. I was in the meeting, but for whatever
reason wasn't added in as a panelist until about the last, I don't know, ten, 15 seconds of
your comments, so I think that we are okay to proceed and if something pops up, then,
we can always add that as maybe a future discussion item at a later date.
Simison: Okay. Perfect. So, that's where --where we are. I could go into a little bit more
background in the conversations we have had with COMPASS over the last year, year
and a half, you know, but I think from our standpoint we -- we want to express our desire
and interest in elevating this project to a higher level of consideration by the commission
and would love to hear from the Commission what that will take in order to make that a
possibility.
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May: All right. Thank you, Mayor Simison. I -- one question I would have is an update
on any discussions or dialogue, commitment that you have gotten from ITD. Have you
had this conversation with them about their position? Is this on their radar?
Simison: It's -- it's on their radar and just like we may have heard from some of your staff,
they want a commitment from ACHD that this is a priority before they are willing to commit.
So, you know, we are in this great little chicken and egg situation where everyone wants
the other person to say that it's important to them before they are willing to discuss it
further. For ITD, honestly, what we have heard it's more about the financial commitment,
you know, in order for it to rate on their modeling. It's about what -- what's the level of
investment for return. So, it truly is for them how much money is the local government
willing to put in in order to make it score high enough for them to want to move it forward.
May: I understand that -- yeah, batting that ball back and -- back and forth across the
net, but from our perspective we would definitely want to have a commitment with a date
certain from the ITD side, you know, going forward. That doesn't preclude us having the
discussion and talking about different scenarios, but that would be one of the main first
steps as far as -- as we are concerned.
Simison: And so what does that mean from your standpoint, a date certain? Are you
asking ITD for a date that they are willing to build it or that they are wanting to support it
being built?
May: We would like -- yes, building the bridge. The date certainly. And I -- and I would
think that would be something that would just follow along with their commitment to do
the project and how it fits into their timeline. So, that would -- that would definitely be a
starting -- a starting point. Ajumping off point if you will.
Strader: Mayor Simison?
Simison: We are going defer to -- direct your questions to Commissioner May to be
recognized.
May: Welcome. Go ahead, Council -- Council Woman.
Strader: Thank you. You know, obviously, being new to City Council I don't have the
background on previous projects that are comparable to this one, but that just seems like
-- like a pretty firm commitment that you are looking for. Is that typical for past projects of
this magnitude to receive a date certain that ITD would actually do that? That seems like
a pretty high threshold to me.
Way: Thank you, Council Woman. I think if they are going to commit to the project, then,
they would be able to provide some sort of timeline. If any other commissioners would
like to comment on that.
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Goldthorpe: Madam President, I think the ideal and perfect example is what happened
when the Cloverdale bridge needed to be rebuilt. They voiced a commitment that it
needed to happen. We said absolutely. You know, even though our share of the
construction cost was much more than ITD's, as would be the case with the Linder bridge,
all we need is a nod and, then, we are perfectly willing to make pretty much whatever
adjustments is necessary with our funding and expenditures to make it happen and ITD
already knows that and so that's my example.
May: Thank you, Commissioner Goldthorpe. Commissioner Arnold.
Arnold: I have a suggestion on how we might get ITD to move this up on their priority list
or at least get it on their priority list. Has anyone talked with Ada county to see if they are
on board with this? Because I think if we could get a joint letter with Ada county, the City
of Meridian, and ACHD and send that to the ITD board, that might elevate this and help
them understand that this is a priority for -- for our jurisdictions in Ada county.
May: Thank you, commissioner. And I think that would get the -- get the attention of ITD
and certainly jumpstart and get that ball rolling to show that coordinated effort. I think that
would be a great starting point.
Arnold: Has anyone talked with the Ada County Commissioners about that?
May: Mayor Simison?
Simison: I have not had direct conversations with the majority of the board on the value
of the project to get Ada County Commissioners -- I honestly don't think that that would
be -- be a hard ask to do and, quite frankly, I'm great to hear this, because a joint letter to
me says at least it's on ACHD's priorities as well and that's what we are really looking to
establish here, that this is -- if you are wanting to do a joint letter to ITD that says that this
is a priority forACHD, I think that's a great outcome if nothing else from this conversation
today.
May: Yeah. A good start. And, certainly, then, we hopefully would get some sort of
commitment, yea or nay, and just see exactly where ITD stands on this. So, maybe we
can go ahead and --
Baker: Madam President?
May: Go ahead, Commissioner Baker.
Baker: Yeah. I think another option also is activating the legislative representatives that
are in Ada county that would benefit from this bridge going in. I know that a few years
ago there was an issue with Highway 16 being very far down on the -- on the list of ITD
projects and the legislators -- some legislators were extremely concerned about that and
we worked with COMPASS to move it up and so, then, ITD has that on their radar as well.
So, I think that's -- that's something that could be done also.
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May: Yeah. I would agree. I think the more -- more partners we get together and put this
letter together and approach ITD the better. So, I think that -- like you say, I think that's a
good outcome, good action item from this -- from this meeting this morning. Thank you,
Commissioner Baker.
Hansen: Yeah. Madam President?
May: Commissioner Hansen.
Hansen: Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. I have been strongly supportive -- I think most of the
commissioners support prioritizing connectivity over widening, because connectivity does
a lot to reduce the demand for the arterials -- a demand on the arterials and this is the
only arterial that doesn't have a bridge or connection to the freeway and this summer
when we were doing the budget we actually included within the motion -- Commissioner
Goldthorpe asked for a reevaluation of some of those widenings. Those are because
they are impact fee eligible and we are at a point where we pretty much paid down our
impact fee loan balance and so we are looking for those things that are impact fee eligible
and kind connectivity mid mile currently aren't eligible. This, however, I believe is and
ought to be impact fee eligible for ACHD's portion of it, so that an adjustment to some of
those widening projects -- we don't need to widen every single arterial south of the
freeway to five lanes. Many of them will function very well at three lanes or we certainly
don't need to widen them now and can adjust the master street map. So, I think that we
can get to moving this to a priority over widening, especially south of Victory or south of
Amity some of those arterials, so that -- so that the connectivity, which actually provides
tremendous amount of relief to those very arterials that we are concerned about. So,
think we are closer to that, we just have to push to say let's make those changes.
Sometimes it's hard, because those projects have already -- I mean the goal of widening
some of those on Cloverdale and Five Mile and Maple Grove have all been on the master
street map for quite a number of years, but we have made a commitment in the motion
this summer to reevaluate those, so they are on the table and I think that -- that means
we ought to put this at the top and with legal counsel figure out what aspect of this project
could be impact fee eligible, provide that as a match to whatever ITD could do and, then,
that I think we are a lot closer to that.
May: And just a note, too, when we start getting everybody together and doing this joint
letter, we should send it to the board, the ITD board.
Simison: Commissioner May.
May: Yes. Mayor Simison.
Simison: Yeah. And, you know, I think the connectivity is a huge aspect of this. I don't
know how tuned in the entire commission is about all the -- quite frankly, there is
transportation services that are -- that are coming in along Franklin at this point in time
between Ten Mile and Linder between the Amazon facility that's going in in that location
and the others -- the school bus barn and our -- and Republic Services and Amazon and
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-- I just blanked if it's a FedEx or UPS -- that's also going in that location. But that's really
-- you know, having another route through that area to try to reduce the congestion that's
likely to occur on Ten Mile and Meridian, which they both drop down, you know, but you
can get across those pretty easy right now and who knows what the new patterns will
look like in six to eight months from now, but, you know, having that connectivity in this
location will hopefully alleviate what will be more and more traffic for many of those
delivery service providers on those two interchanges and that's the tough part for ITD.
They -- they don't see those interchanges as being part of their system and the benefits
aren't really taken into consideration when they consider these type of projects, but it,
quite frankly, is very important to the local transportation connectivity elements. So, we
are happy to work on a letter and, you know, we will work with the appropriate people at
ACHD to draft up that letter and I will -- I will take it on myself to talk to the Ada County
Commission, if we are going to do a joint meeting with them, but I think that we can get
them engaged rather quickly.
May: Very good.
Simison: Other council members have any comments or questions they would like to ask
that relate to this?
Hoaglun: Madam Chair, this is Councilman Hoaglun.
May: Please go ahead. Welcome.
Hoaglun: Thank you. Just a comment and a -- I guess a request of ACHD. As
Commissioner Hansen talked about impact fees, it's clear that, you know, where we
spend our impact fees is a little different between our -- our two entities and whatnot. It
would probably be helpful to us as a Council, whether it's Justin or someone else, coming
at some point in time to a workshop to let us know if -- if and -- or when this project goes
forward, whenever that is, someday -- what are the things that ACHD comes to the table
with, what -- where their money can be spent, what they would provide, those types of
things, so we can better understand the details. We know if ITD is on board and it puts
-- you put it on your project list and every -- everything's go, it's not going to happen in a
year, so what would a time frame be for something like a -- like a bridge. That's not
something we -- we handle at all, so I would like to kind of understand it from your
perspective, ACHD's perspective, what it takes to do a project like that at some future
point by -- by someone from ACHD, if you wouldn't mind.
May: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a good question. I know we have looked at the numbers.
Director Wong? I'm not sure who else from the staff -- yes. Would you like to address
this question. It's hypothetical at this point, but --
Wong: Well, at the end of the day, again, it's going to come down to the collaborative
agreements that the City of Meridian and Ada County Highway Commission come to. In
this type of project there is a -- of course funding is always key. Timing is always a key.
It will depend upon, again, the negotiations that the city and the commission has regarding
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as to how this will be funded, what type of projects that may not go forward in -- in Meridian
if this is the key project and, then, what type of partnerships you are able to build on this
between commercial developers and -- and, of course, the city and private enterprise. I
would like to relate this I think a lot to what the commission and St. Luke's and the city of
Boise worked through on the -- on the three cities agreement to support St. Luke's and
Boise in the expansion of infrastructure that has gone on and continues to go on. That
was a good model on this type of-- on this type of project going forward. So, again, more
than happy to have a very -- I guess in-depth briefing to the Council at their convenience
as to what this may or may take. Again, I would --just listening to the leadership speak,
my assumption first is that big first milestone hurdle is to have ITD actually commit to a
-- this type of project, because at the end of the day, you know, that's -- we don't -- we
don't own that--that property going over the interstate and such, but we can work through
that -- very successfully with the three cities agreement from St. Luke's, of course, the
commission and the leadership in Boise. That might be a model that we work towards.
Does that sort of answer your question? Now for cost for the councilman, our teams have
estimated what this may take. Again, looking at how important this is to Meridian, and
just -- and this is called a WAG or TLAR, that looks about right, TLAR, and so for design
looking at about one point-- if I'm not mistaken 1.5, 1.6 million dollars for right of way, 1.9,
in that area, to build the -- the support systems on both sides of the interstate, which is all
we can do, you are looking at 13 million dollars and, then, our estimate for a bridge, based
on the Cloverdale emergency project that ITD would have to come to is about six to seven
million dollars. So, when it's all said and done this is a 20 million dollar plus project in
today's figures, again, based on the estimates that we have. Does that, Commissioner
May, answer your question?
May: It does for me and I think this will all grow out organically once we take care of this
first step. So, councilman, did that answer --
Hoaglun: Yes, Madam Chair, that -- that helps. At some point -- and I know it's a future
point, because we have first things first to accomplish, but at some point, as Director
Wong said, we are going to sit down and negotiate. I really don't have any idea what --
what we -- what there is -- what will we need to talk about. So, that's just kind of helping
us understand it from a high level of what those things are that have to be accomplished
to reach agreement in the future. So, that would just help us as we prepare.
May: Absolutely. Absolutely. You are very welcome.
Hansen: Madam Chair, I have one -- one thing I would like --
May: Commissioner Hansen.
Hansen: Yeah. And that is having learned lessons -- I'm sure you have learned the same
lessons -- this -- hopefully all that would be built north of the freeway would be a two --
three lane connection. This is a neighborhood with an elementary school and lots of
houses have been built out, so it will fundamentally transform that neighborhood and
being early in the process I would strongly encourage inviting those neighborhood leaders
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into deciding what that road looks like, because that would be the portion ACHD would
build. An actual bridge would be ITD, but the -- the lead ups to both sides -- and that will
fundamentally change that neighborhood. So, making sure they are on board to -- early,
early in the process. You can never be too early, so that we are not in a position where
they are taken by surprise.
May: Thank you, commissioner. Any other comments from the commission side or from
the city? Okay.
Simison: Madam President?
May: Yes, Mayor Simison.
Simison: And I think one thing that will -- it sounds like we will need to have that further
dialogue about, based on the numbers that the director shared, I believe that's for the
entire north section of that road. Going back to what Commissioner Hansen said, we are
really right now concerned about getting the bridge portion built, that connectivity over the
interstate. The expansion or the modifications to Linder Road heading north to Franklin
-- I think that there can be agreement or disagreement on how much of that should be
included at this point in time, but it's really about getting the bridge functioning first and
foremost and, then, worrying about future changes to Linder at a -- at another time,
especially from a funding standpoint, because a 20 million dollar figure is a lot different
figures than I have heard recently for just the building of the bridge to make that
connection and that's -- I think that's a great place that we will have to have that
communication and that discussion as we move forward to where at least an agreement
on what should be built when.
Goldthorpe: Madam President?
May: Commissioner Goldthorpe.
Goldthorpe: Yeah. I -- you know, the Linder bridge and the road might wind up being
used by delivery trucks, some very large, some not so large. That almost has a
commercial implication, which means to me, anyway, that we have to plan a lot more than
just putting the bridge in and a two or three lane road. We have to make sure that it's --
we will probably wind up having to -- if we put in three, preserving for five, putting in some
very safe pedestrian and bicycle facilities with a heavy emphasis on getting those school
kids to school safely without their mothers having to drive them two blocks, that we will
also wind up being -- doing the south side of the bridge, as well as the north, because as
you know we don't just do one side, it's a very short hop from the bridge to Overland and,
you know, that would be an automatic to -- to do and finish that. Anyway, I just think it's
absolutely going to be much more than just putting in a bridge and expecting it to handle
what was previously described as a possible commercial arterial. Thanks.
Baker: Madam President?
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May: Commissioner Baker.
Baker: Yeah. I agree with Commissioner Goldthorpe that you have to plan for more than
just the bridge. I -- you can't just build the bridge and have the approaches, you know,
decided sometime later on. But I also would point out that when -- when you build for
three and plan -- or -- and preserve for five, you are condemning the people to two times
the construction, instead of once, and I think that going forward you need to be very very
careful about what you do, because all it does is -- is irritate people beyond belief. Those
of you who have been in this valley for a while should remember the Curtis Road fiasco.
You never want to put in -- you never want to put in a project that you end up within a year
or two having to tear out or expand. I mean that's just -- it's a -- it's a colossal waste of
money, it's a colossal waste of resources, and it's a colossal waste of goodwill on the part
of the public. So, if this is going to be a commercial corridor and -- and all these arterials
are going to be built out at three and, then, you preserve for five and, then, you come
back and you do five -- with the growth that's happening in this county the bullet needs to
be bitten and you just need to go ahead and do what needs to be done and -- and then
-- and, then, move on to the next area. You do not want to have continual construction.
It is -- it's just a really bad idea.
May: Thank you, Commissioner Baker.
Arnold: Commissioner May?
May: Commissioner Arnold.
Arnold: I just wanted to clarify -- if I understood the director's numbers correctly, the -- the
amount for ITD to build the bridge was six million dollars and, then, the estimates that he
gave for ACHD was for a five lane road section and it was somewhere over total about
16 million, 16 and a half, is that -- is that correct? Okay. He's giving me the thumbs up.
May: Yes. Yes. I was just adding up here. Any -- any other questions or comments?
Hansen: Madam Chair and Mayor?
May: Commissioner Hansen.
Hansen: As you can see, there will need to be these discussions resolved. Looking at
the map it's pretty clear people have built homes pretty close to where Linder is. So, my
preference, obviously, would be for preserve for three and build for three, get that done,
it's never going to be any wider. But this decision has to be made on the front end, rather
than the push back. I think it's really important to have this decision made on the front
end, so -- and -- and to understand we don't -- may not need the -- we certainly have lots
of other connectivity. The idea of connectivity you don't have to widen every road if you
have more connections, more choices for people to cross.
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May: Thank you. So, Mayor Simison, I'm encouraged. I think we all understand and
there is a consensus that the critical part of this is to get ITD on board and toward that
end we can do a joint letter to start that -- start that process and -- and see what -- where
their -- you know, their preference is and I would think hearing from all these entities and
know that we are serious and want to move forward, I think that's the way that we move
the needle, working together and having these agreements. So, if our staffs can work
together on that and we are going to have some more dialogue going forward, but once
we get that commitment, then, we start moving into all the details and who does what and
what -- what the costs are, et cetera. But we have got to get that commitment up front.
Simison: Good. Thank you.
May: Are we on agreement -- okay. All right. Very good. So, any -- any other comments
on this item?
Simison: Councilman Cavener, I saw you were muted.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
May: Go ahead.
Cavener: Just appreciate the good comments from our -- our highway district
commissioners. You know, you are the subject matter experts when it comes to this and
so hearing some of your insight is -- is appreciated. I guess maybe just a clarification
about this letter and the timing of its delivery. I know we are all well intended to be able
to get something out in an expedited fashion, but I don't know if there is any conversation
about wanting to have this letter delivered in the next 30 days, in the next 60 days, before
the legislature commences, if there has been any thought or discussion about that
particular aspect.
May: We haven't talked about the timeline. Mayor Simison, you indicated that you were
going to get right on that, it sounded like, before the end of the year here.
Simison: That would -- that would be my --
May: Or correct -- correct me if I'm wrong. Okay.
Simison: Before the end of the year would be the intention.
2. Eagle and Amity Roundabout Discussion
May: Intention is good. Understand that. I think that's a good -- that's a good goal to
have. Does anyone have any comments or a different perspective or objection to that?
Okay. I think -- I think we have got a plan to move forward, so -- very good. Good things
happen when everybody gets together and we are communicating, so -- all right. Our
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next item on the agenda is the Eagle and Amity roundabout discussion and, Director
Wong, I believe Ryan is going to make a presentation?
Wong: Yes, ma'am, he is.
May: All right. So, Mayor Simison, Ryan Cutler will be doing a presentation on this
project.
Cutler: Good morning, everybody.
May: There you are.
Cutler: Madam President, Commissioners, Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, Ryan Cutler. I'm
going to share my screen real quick, so you can see what I'm talking about. Give me just
one second. Hopefully that has worked. So, it's not. Just one second. Okay. Hopefully
everybody can see my screen. Is it working? To see the presentation on your screen?
Perfect. Again, my name is Ryan Cutler. I'm a senior project manager here at the Ada
County Highway District and have been the one that's been in charge of this Eagle Road
and Amity Road roundabout, including the widening of Eagle Road between Amity and
Victory over the last several -- several years that we have got -- as we have gone through
this design process and just wanted to give you a quick update on where we are in the
project and a little bit of history going back to when this project started, so that we are all
on the same page. So, here is a little bit of the history of this project. As you are probably
aware, right now at Eagle and Amity there is a single lane roundabout. The highway
district, in cooperation with the City of Meridian, built that back in 2012 and it has been
operating ever since. When we built that project out there the intention was for the single
lane -- single lane roundabout to function for around ten years. At that point in time we
would anticipate the ability to be an adjustment to the roadway. That leads us to this point
where we are here now with the traffic volumes up and need for this intersection to have
a little bit of expansion to handle that -- that new traffic load that's going through there.
As the city may be aware, the Firenze development on the northwest corner of this
intersection came through and was approved by the city in 2016. If you remember during
that application process by the Firenze team there was also improvements --
improvements that needed to be made to the roundabout at Amity and Eagle and that
included a two lane roundabout with a bypass lane on the northwest corner. Following
that in 2017, August of 2017, the development agreement with ACHD was approved by
the Commission and that development agreement required that the developer complete
their portion of the work by summer of 2018. The property owner, then, came back and
requested an extension of that development agreement in February of 2018, which
extended their completion to fall of 2019. Now, as you are all aware if you have been out
there now nothing's happened on that corner as of yet. I hear that there is plans to move
forward sometime soon, but we still have our single lane around about out there. During
that entire process the highway district began our expansion design project from Victory
-- excuse me -- from Amity to Victory. This has been a part of ACHD's plan going back all
the way to 2015 in our five year work plan to develop this roadway section between Amity
and Victory and that design was completed in June of 2019, kind of corresponding to the
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timing of when the Firenze development was being proposed. As time moved on that
development agreement with the property owner on the northwest corner was, terminated
because nothing was happening at that corner and they were not prepared or ready to
move forward with their application. So, just to give you a -- you may have seen this
already. This is some of the information that we shared at our -- our two public meetings
that we held with the communities out there along Eagle Road as we prepared to move
forward with this project. So, items that I would like to point out on the screen if I could,
if you look where my cursor is over to the right, this roadway project includes a -- not only
ten foot multi-use pathways, but also a pedestrian crossing at the canal midblock and,
then, also a roundabout for the intersection of Eagle and Zaldia. It's a very busy
intersection for people coming out of both the Kingsbridge Subdivision and the Tuscany
Subdivision and we received a lot of complaints that it was becoming difficult to get out
onto that roadway. So, as we did this design project we evaluated that intersection for
what would be the best treatment to allow traffic to flow more freely from the subdivision
out onto Eagle Road. This is the design that we proposed and took out to the public. You
will also see as we get towards the -- the left of the screen is where the single lane
roundabout is currently and the development that is in the northwest future -- the future
development on the northwest corner. Again, as part of that development plan that was
approved by the city back in 2016, a dual lane roundabout was proposed and approved
at that time. Again, the development agreement did not -- did not go through in 2019 and
that responsibility for the design and completion of the intersection fell to ACHD. So,
some improvements that are included in this dual lane roundabout that I wanted to point
out is that there are what we call RFB head crossings or flashing signal lights at each leg
of the crosswalk to allow pedestrians to cross safely at their location. We have future
connections planned for both the east, south, and west legs of the roadway for when any
project comes up in the future in those directions. Then also as indicated, the south to
west bypass lane, which is the heaviest movement of traffic at that intersection. So, again,
as I stated just a moment ago, the design of this intersection kind of fell to ACHD when
the development agreement stopped with a property owner in the northwest corner and
so we began designing that intersection not too many -- not too many months ago and
that included input and help from the staff at the City of Meridian and also the coordination
with -- coordination with The Land Group, who was -- or is the representative of the
property owner on the northwest corner. There was also some assistance from an outside
consultant and ACHD in reviewing the traffic analysis and traffic design for what's best
suited for this intersection. So, just this past September, last month, we completed that
design in preparation for -- for us to take the project out to bid for construction. Those --
those bids were received and opened on the 7th of October and with Central Paving being
-- being our apparent low bid on the project. We had a meeting yesterday with the
commission to review this. The decision there was to postpone the approval of the bid of
this project just for one week, so that we could have this meeting this morning and make
sure that the City of Meridian was informed on all that was taking place and we still
anticipate that our construction notice to proceed will be on the 19th of November --
towards the end of November for construction to take place during this fiscal year on this
important project to help out with the congestion in the area. That's all I had this morning
in way of -- way of presentation. I would stand for any questions or discussion we might
have.
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May: All right. Thank you very much, Ryan. Mayor Simison, questions or comments
from you or your council members?
Simison: Well, I will -- I can sorry -- I have got to get it out of the screenshare. I can start
off with some of the conversations and, you know, I'm not trying to hide the ball, I live in
Tuscany. That's known. I'm not a fan of roundabouts generally, but I understand they
have their purpose and place in our community and in many communities from that
perspective. I did not come in expecting to have a conversation about this. In fact, I had
felt like it was a done decision and until there were changes that were made to the design,
which to me were the changes were made to the design to add that extra bypass lane,
which does change 25 percent of the project. I felt at least from my perspective --
because, quite frankly, many of the people that live in this area are very split, we know
that, on whether or not they would prefer a roundabout versus the signal in this area. So,
it was -- it was when that was brought to my attention about that bypass lane that I said,
well, maybe there is -- we should have another conversation, because people are still not
excited about the direction this is headed. So, that's really what spurred my interest in
having further conversation is while decisions have been made, there have been changes
to those decisions and felt it was warranted to have a conversation about it, especially
when this is a roundabout that's going to be surrounded by lights. So, I -- on a personal
level look at it and say, okay, so we are really going to allow the effective of movement of
people from Sky Mesa, Century Hill Farm, up to Rite-Aid along this one --this section with
this roundabout, because you are going to have a light at Victory and you are going to
have a light at Lake Hazel. So, it's really not creating a long corridor and for the record I
am not opposed to roundabouts in this area, I think the roundabout that's planned for
Locust Grove and Victory is great, but land use patterns have changed over the years.
When this was first contemplated and designed I don't think that the Hills Century Farm
where you have a YMCA, a park, a regional significant draw, a grocery store that will likely
come in, that really changes the -- the traffic patterns, the desire of the community, and a
roundabout can change -- even people's perception about walkability, you know, from --
at least from my perspective I don't view a roundabout as something that you are going
to walk through or to. I think you are going to get in your car -- the way everyone does
now. No one -- with the current roundabout -- and I understand there is not a lot of
infrastructure down here -- no one is getting on their bikes or walking to the YMCA from
Tuscany. Every single person is getting into their car and driving over there and with a
two lane roundabout and with the bypass lane added into it, I don't see that changing and
that doesn't seem to be -- the land use pattern doesn't seem to support what I would call
the nonstop flow of traffic through an area that has some major draws to this part of the
community in it. So, I'm going to stop there. I know Councilman Bernt also has some --
some comments and other questions and Councilman Cavener and I will turn it over to
them.
May: Thank you, Mayor.
Wallace: Madam President?
May: Yes, Mr. Wallace.
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Wallace: Madam President, David Wallace, deputy director of plans and projects. Just
to respond to one point with the Mayor. Mr. Mayor, the bypass lane has always been
planned for this improvement. When we -- we are going to expand it it's always been
there. In fact, it was the property to the northwest that was on the hook to plan it until
their -- the development agreement fell apart.
May: Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Wallace. All right. I believe --
Bernt: Ms. May?
May: There you are. All right. Welcome. Yes. Go right ahead.
Bernt: Thank you so much. Along with the comments made by the Mayor in regard to
this roundabout, I know that Council Member Cavener and myself, maybe some others
on our council, have been approached by residents that live in Tuscany and they are very
concerned about the ingress-egress or the -- at the entrance. I believe it looks like it's
Rome Drive and also Dartmoor Drive in regard to the crosswalk and how it sits behind
parking -- at one stopped car waiting at that intersection. There is some major safety
concerns in regard to this -- to this entrance, especially since -- especially on Rome Drive
where the crosswalk goes behind one park -- or not parked car, but one stopped car and
if you have a vehicle traveling south that, then, takes a right into Rome Drive into the
Tuscany Subdivision, maybe early morning, late afternoon, early evening where sunlight
isn't quite visible, very possible that that -- that that driver is not going to see that
pedestrian walking behind the first car where the -- where the crosswalk is currently
proposed to be -- to be made and so this is -- according to Tuscany residents that have
reached out to us and myself included, this is a major -- major safety hazard in this area
that needs to get changed. It certainly needs to get discussed.
May: All right. Thank you.
Wallace: Madam President?
May: Thank you. Oh, Mr. Wallace.
Wallace: Madam President, Dave Wallace, deputy director. We have used this particular
form of crossing in several places throughout the valley. We have done significant traffic
studies. It has been proven to be a safe and effective way. It's actually much safer for
those that are pedestrians or -- or cyclists on a multi-use path to have this crossing
displayed the way you see it.
Bernt: Commissioner May?
May: Yes.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Thank you, sir.
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May: Please go ahead.
Bernt: Is there -- is there any -- anywhere in Meridian that you have used this type of
crosswalk?
Wallace: I will send you images of where we have it elsewhere in -- in Treasure Valley.
Bernt: Not in Meridian though.
Wallace: So, about this. This has been carefully designed, carefully considered by our
traffic engineers with just the kind of safety concerns that you have in mind and, as I said,
we have it in practice in Ada county now and it has proven to be not just an effective, but
a safe way to do it, moving the sidewalk all the way to the street in this particular
configuration would be a bad idea.
Bernt: Excuse me? I couldn't hear the gentleman.
May: Yeah. Go ahead.
Wallace: Moving -- moving the sidewalk -- as is suggested moving the crossing of the
sidewalk to be adjacent to the street would be a bad idea.
Bernt: Commissioner May, Madam President --
May: Go ahead.
Bernt: -- Mr. Mayor, why would it be a bad idea?
Wallace: It's proven -- it's proven engineering, proven traffic analysis. In other words, the
anecdotal examples that you are postulating just don't -- they don't follow engineering
analysis and it's been proven not just through the examples that we use in the valley --
and we have used them in the valley because they are accepted national traffic standards.
Again, the key here is the safety of the multi-use path users, both the bicyclists and
pedestrians. We wouldn't have put this in here arbitrarily just to strand a car adjacent to
the roads. It actually took careful consideration. So, this -- this is not an atypical use of
that crossing.
May: Thank you, Mr. Wallace.
Bernt: Madam President?
May: Yes. Please go ahead.
Bernt: Mr. Wallace, I certainly wouldn't insinuate that you didn't -- that you didn't put any
thought into this or -- of course you have and -- and you guys -- as Council Member
Cavener mentioned earlier, you guys are the -- the subject matter experts in this regard.
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1 don't pretend to be smarter, I'm just going off of, you know, feedback from many
concerned citizens in that subdivision. On -- on Dartmoor it's a hair different, although
similar, because you have a median in the middle and it makes it maybe a little bit different
where -- where someone could, you know, have -- have an area maybe to stop and wait
for a passing car that may not see them. Do you have any areas within the Ada county
area -- certainly not in Meridian, but in other areas where you don't have units that -- that
-- where a -- where a person walking across that crosswalk would have some type of
safety -- an area where they could -- they could -- where they could stand, where, you
know, they could wait for the passing car to -- to move past them?
Wallace: So, I will just -- a very simple response on this. The engineer who stamped
these drawings would not have stamped them without this crossing -- this particular type
of crossing for a multi-use path to be used the way we have used it. In other words, again,
I'm going to go back to the national standards. The proven engineering analysis and
examples that we can already find in Ada county. So, it's part of the plan now.
May: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Wallace. Further questions, councilman?
Bernt: Not right now. I will -- I will hold off for a second or two to let other people speak
on this issue if they wish.
May: All right. All right. Thank you. Councilman Cavener, did you --
Goldthorpe: Madam President?
May: I think --just a second, Commissioner Goldthorpe.
Cavener: I'm happy to yield to Commissioner Goldthorpe.
May: Okay. We will circle right back. Commissioner Goldthorpe.
Goldthorpe: Yes. For--for Dave Wallace. Having been the --the guy on the commission
that chaired almost all of the meetings and hearings and everything else for the year 2016
and the meetings and hearings for this particular project were much longer than just that
one year, this particular configuration of crossing was it included in the drawings that were
presented in those hearings in 2016?
Wallace: My memory -- yes, this has been on the books since 2015. 1 will defer to the
project manager, who was deeply involved in all of those. Ryan Cutler.
Cutler: Yes, Madam Chair?
May: Go ahead, Ryan.
Cutler: Yeah. I was waiting to jump in. Just want to make sure everybody had their
chance to have their comments out there. Yes, this has been a part of our drawing in our
public involvement process that showed the ten foot multi-use pathway crossing at this
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location at the local roadways. Maybe a little bit of history on it. A lot of this design -- a
simple version of why this design happens this way is I think when you see cars that pull
up to an intersection, especially on a roadway such as Eagle Road, they creep out onto
the roadway to get advantage to get out of that road and to be able to see left and right
down the roadway. What we find during that is when that happens that pushes the cyclist
and the pedestrians out further into the road to go around those vehicles to cross safely
to the other side of the road. Therefore, there is some analysis that's done that shows
that in this instance it's actually safer for them to go and curve behind that vehicle that's
trying to turn out of the road to not have a conflict with the nose of the vehicle that's trying
to make that turn out onto a high speed roadway and you may -- some of you may
remember this, but just about a year ago this discussion came up in a Meridian City
Council meeting with the ACHD representative and the City of Meridian staff. We actually
sent over some -- some exhibits to show exactly what was happening at this intersection
and that discussion happened just over a year ago about exactly what's being shown on
this -- on these drawings. So, this shouldn't be a new item. It shouldn't be anything new
to anybody. This is a discussion we have been having for close to two years now and a
discussion we had with the council just over a year ago when this question came up
before. So, again, we are -- this is a design that we are moving to. Have some already
existing in the county and we will be moving to -- in a lot of our new pathways just to
alleviate that conflict area between the front of the car and pushing those pedestrians out
into the roadway to get around a car that's trying to make a right-hand turn out onto the
road.
Goldthorpe: Thank you. I --
May: Thank you, Ryan. Commissioner Goldthorpe.
Goldthorpe: Yeah. The reason that I -- that I asked that question and brought it up is
because we had at least one additional, maybe two additional neighborhood meetings for
this design and one additional public hearing for this whole project, more than we have
had for virtually any other project that I have seen in ACHD in the last six years. So, I'm
very -- I'm scratching my head big time to think that there is really any reason that -- that
many of the neighbors, unless they were completely disinterested or not interested in the
process in 2016, are becoming concerned about it now, when there is little, if anything,
that we can do about it. Thank you. Also I have to be off of this call in about four minutes.
Thank you.
May: All right. Thank you, commissioner. All right. Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Madam President. And, you know, Mr. Wallace, right, I appreciate
your feedback and I can -- I can understand maybe sometimes seeing -- reading the
frustration on your face to feel like this project has been moving forward for a significant
amount of time, only to continue to, you know, be asked some of these questions. I think
what it boils down to and where this would be beneficial is for me to hear from the
commission about how the City of Meridian can be a better partner. As I understand
throughout this project staff, mayors, council members have voiced concern about
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different elements of this project going all the way back to the beginning and what I want
to get a good sense of is if there is something that the highway district commission thinks
is beneficial or prudent or appropriate and a local jurisdiction feels differently after hearing
feedback from our citizens or from our transportation commission, how can we best
convey that and, frankly, does our voice count. I think sometimes there is a feeling --
perceived frustration from some members of the public that they voice concern or
opposition and that that -- those comments can -- while not in practical application come
as the perception of falling on deaf ears. I know that you are all strong civic servants. I
know our meeting is going to wrap up. I just wanted to thank Commissioner Baker for her
many many years of service to local jurisdictions and to the highway district. I know we
are not going to probably see each other in person, but I know that you truly care and so
for us how can we help to better communicate as a city if we have concerns about a
project, at what level can we be involved to help shape or evolve projects to better meet
the needs of our citizens?
May: Right. Thank you. First of all, absolutely, we take all input that we get seriously
and our staff looks at every project. Always safety is first and foremost. Communication,
Councilman, is key. You know. And I believe, Ryan, we have had members of the
Meridian staff engaged in this project going forward; correct?
Cutler: Correct.
May: And I know there have been updates back and forth to your transportation
committee and to the council and so, you know, I want to put that notion that it falls on
deaf ears and that any input that we get is dismissed and not taken into account, but at
the end of the day our -- we have got an exceptional team of planners and engineers that
put best practices into -- into place and so, yeah, no, we -- we appreciate -- and we have
quite a robust outreach program to -- to get that input, not just from the other jurisdictions,
but from the residents and citizens of the area as well. So, Brian, if you would like to
speak to that.
Cutler: Yeah. Madam President. Thank you. Just want to -- Councilman, wanted to
point out we have had great representation from the City of Meridian. Brian McClure from
your office has been a fantastic member of our project team. He is one of our project
team members, one of up to 15 or 20 project members that were team members that we
use during this process and President May is correct, obviously, we have got some safety
standards that we have to uphold from a national standpoint, from a design standpoint,
from an engineer -- and you know these things -- an engineer being able to stamp a
project for it to be properly done and so my request I think -- and I speak maybe for project
managers and for ACHD in general, is just that early communication is the best way to
go. You know, you see our five year work plan that's moving through the process where
these projects -- projects now they are going to be built in 2025 are running through the
process now and the earlier you can get in on that -- on that process the better. We go
through the commission for all of our agreements with our consultants to do the design
work. That's an opportunity that you can go and talk to the commission and discuss those
items. Early on we have team members that join us throughout the design process and
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their -- their voice is definitely heard and represents the City of Meridian. I know Brian
did a great job of coming to you as a council and a mayor and, then, coming back to me
and discussing with the project team. So, encourage that to continue to happen. And,
then, all the way up through the design. Just from -- and as you are aware from our
standpoint at ACHD it becomes very difficult to stop a train from moving when we are,
you know, four weeks out from a construction project. The earlier we can get in on that
from -- from the city's perspective, we will -- we will welcome that and take those
comments and roll with them during our project team effort.
Baker: Commissioner May?
May: Commissioner Baker.
Baker: Yeah. Thanks, Luke, for those kind words. I really appreciate that. I just -- I just
think part of the problem also is that these projects -- and I mentioned this in our -- in our
commission meeting yesterday. These projects take so long. You know, it isn't like the
Cloverdale Bridge, which was done within a year, which -- which was fantastic and I wish
we could do all of our projects like that, but we can't, and so it takes -- it takes quite a long
time, the planning, you know, the design, the public input, the design, the redesign and,
then, finally we get it out to go to construction -- one of the issues is that the population
changes. You know, people that may have not lived in Tuscany when this was first
proposed and participated early on don't live there anymore, the new people say what's
going on and I think one of the things that -- and, of course, city councils change and
mayors change and -- and their thoughts change as well. So, I think one of the things
that might be the best advice, perhaps, that I can give is just, you know, once the project
is complete, unless -- and it has gone through the process and has had the public input,
it is in the design phase, once that has taken place it -- I think it would be a good idea if
the city councils and -- you know, tried to go along with that and say, okay, well, the next
project will we -- we will have better input into. But when you have the change in city
councils and the change in population over that period of time, it's -- it is difficult and these
things are going to arise.
Arnold: Commissioner May?
May: I agree. Commissioner Arnold.
Arnold: I know we might be a little pressed for time, but before we end this call I would
just like to have a clear understanding of what direction the City of Meridian wants us to
take at this point. It seems like -- we have three options. We can proceed and award the
contract and go forward as is -- and I'm not advocating for any one of these. I just want
to understand what the City of Meridian's position is. Or we could proceed with the
contract award and process a change order at some point to turn this into what it sounds
like the city wants, which would be a traditional intersection, instead of a roundabout, and,
of course, there would be some cost to redesign and a cost for a change order. Or the
third option is to not proceed with this contract at all and go back to the drawing board.
There would be cost there to redesign, of course, and -- and a time delay and perhaps
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staff could give us some indication of what that time delay would be. So, I just want to
make sure that I have a clear understanding of what the City of Meridian's preferred option
is going forward.
May: Thank you, Commissioner Arnold. Mr. Wallace or Ryan, Director Wong, perhaps
you can address that question of Commissioner Arnold of the timeline and any delay and,
please, if you will the cost that would be affected by this.
Wong: Commissioner May, Bruce Wong, director. Again, thank you. It's always great to
look at options. On this case, though, I think that the option of doing a change order that
would completely remove -- if that's the case, the -- the currently operating roundabout
for something different, you are talking about three million dollars and it would my thought
that at this point you are -- you are stopping the project. You are talking about -- and,
then, we will redo it for the following year, if that's possible. But I don't think that type of
change order would -- would be executable. Change orders generally look at, well, if we
wanted to move something, you know, ten feet this way or five feet this way, or we wanted
to slightly increase the sidewalk width or if there was another entrance that wanted to be
contemplated by the commission or the -- or the city, that's a change. This would be --
stop the project and start over. Just --just my perspective.
May: All right. Thank you.
Arnold: So, just a follow up. What would the timeline be if we do have to start over? Is
it -- is it going to move the project out a year, two years --
Wong: Two years. Two years.
Arnold: Two years?
Wong: Easily. Easily.
Arnold; Okay. So -- so, then, I guess what I need to know in order to make a decision
next week is what Meridian's preferred option given -- given that information.
May: Mayor Simison.
Simison: I can speak for myself first and foremost and let each council member -- I go
back to what Commissioner Baker said. Get it right. That's -- that's -- that's the most
important part of this project is to get it right and invest money in -- in -- in a way that gets
it right. My recollection throughout this project is this -- it's been a very split conversation
amongst the community about which version they actually preferred. It was a -- quite
frankly I will say a coin flip on which -- which -- traditional light or roundabout was the
preferred option, but the traditional lights are what people know and understand and from
my personal perspective I would rather see a delay and transform to a light along this
corridor, as compared to move forward with the double lane roundabout, which I don't
think is the right thing for the community in this location. So, I think that we are not doing
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the right type of project for the community -- maybe right for moving cars, but I don't think
it's the right type of investment in infrastructure for the community to -- appropriately in
this area. That's my opinion. But I will ask the other council members, they may not be
interested in a delay if that's what the outcome is.
May: All right. Thank you, Mayor.
Borton: Commissioner May?
May: Yes, Councilman, please go.
Borton: Thank you. Rebecca, I appreciate you bringing up that kind of-- it's a blunt ask,
which is really appropriate right here, and the opportunity for -- for Meridian to give some
clarity on this issue. My suggestion would be if -- if it's been delayed a week, which we
appreciate as well, to allow this conversation to occur, if you are able to do so for another
week or two to allow our council to have a discussion, rather than do this right now here
on the fly, I think there is a lot of engineering metrics and specifics that we should be
considering. I would suggest we have this on our city agenda next week perhaps, if not
the week after, and have our own discussion, review that specific engineering data, the
specific options to provide you an informed decision of what our city -- how we would
collectively respond to that -- that good question. I think we can do that very quick. I just
wouldn't want to put us in a spot of trying to do that right here on the fly without that --that
background data and clear delineation of those options, to give you a clear
recommendation.
May: All right. Thank you, Councilman.
Perreault: Madam Chair?
May: Yes, Council Woman, Good to see you. Go right ahead, please.
Perreault: Good to see you, too. Council Woman Perreault speaking. As -- as Council
Woman Strader mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, as a first year council member
I'm absorbing everything, learning, listening, but I have had conversations with -- with our
mayor and I'm very familiar with this area. Also as a COMPASS board member have --
have paid attention to what's happening with the plans and intentions for the future and
the population growth and expectation that's intended to happen or that's expected to
happen I should say and at this point in time I agree with the mayor's assessment that I
would like to see this -- to see this be a signalized intersection and if that requires some
additional time, I'm -- I'm in agreement with that, so long as we get this right. However, I
appreciate Councilman Borton's approach to this and I think it would be wise on our part
to take a further look and I would appreciate seeing some more detail about what that
would involve, to make a more educated decision on behalf for residents.
May: Very good. Thank you. Any other council members? Council Woman Strader.
Bernt: Madam President?
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May: oh.
Strader: Thank you. I will defer to Council President if you would like.
Bernt: No. Go ahead.
Strader: Thank you. For me in my mind I love the idea Councilman Borton suggested of
us having a quick conversation on this with more input. This area has changed and I
think that to me is really the key element here. We have this huge regional park and
pedestrian safety is really important to me and I think -- I would like some input from your
perspective -- what's the gold standard of pedestrian safety for this area before we make
that decision and if that's something you can send us that would be very helpful. But I
appreciate, you know, if moving forward you guys can really take that input and we can
maybe get together more closely, especially on these projects that are tougher, to make
sure that this doesn't happen and you get that feedback. If our staff is working closely
with you, but we have a difference of opinion, that may not work; right? So, I think it's --
it's making sure that that opinion is conveyed to you not just that we were involved, but
that that opinion was taken into account. I know you are all so dedicated and I know you
have a lot of expertise and so, yeah, any information you could provide. But I personally
am in favor of a delay to discuss if a change is needed, just because I feel like this area
has transformed and it's going to keep changing and we need to make sure that we are
building something that's going to work for the long run. Thank you.
May: All right. Thank you. Certainly increased communication and dialogue sooner
rather than later would be most beneficial and a win-win for all. Thank you very much.
All right, Councilman.
Bernt: Thank you, Madam President, Mr. Mayor. So so grateful for the opportunity to
meet with you guys today. Always enjoy a dialogue with fellow policymakers and decision
makers. In regard to the -- the Eagle Road Tuscany question that I had earlier, if -- if -- I
certainly would like to see that information and that would definitely be a good source --
resource for us to have dialogue this next week or the following week. Some -- you know
Eagle Road is one of the -- if not the busiest road in the state of Idaho. There is a lot
going down that road and not -- again, I don't want to ensue that you guys haven't done
any research or you guys aren't the experts on -- on transportation in our valley by any
means. However, sometimes once a one fits all approach in the valley, you know, doesn't
always, you know, make sense or work and so a little bit more dialogue, a little bit more
eyeballs on -- on -- on these -- on these issues certainly won't hurt anything in my opinion.
But with that said, grateful for you all, grateful for a collaboration and -- and appreciate
your time. Thank you.
May: All right. You are very welcome. Any other comments from council members?
Hoaglun: Madam Chair?
May: I'm sorry?
Page 53
Meridian City Council-Ada County Highway District
Item#3. October 22,2020
Page 23 of 26
Hoaglun: Madam Chair, this is Brad -- Councilman Hoaglun.
May: Oh. Yes, please go right ahead, Councilman.
Hoaglun: Real quick. If you wouldn't mind a brief delay, it's just a matter of us wrapping
our minds around the twin goals of facilitating traffic -- traffic flow, which ACHD is working
on. Don't necessarily disagree with engineers who look at the safety. It might be a
communication issue with neighbors about why this is the best alternative for some of
these turns likely into Rome and the roundabout, but also we just need to take the time
to look at the -- how we enhance the characteristics of a neighborhood and that's really
important to us as we -- as Meridian is growing what do these neighborhoods look like,
what do they want to be, and does a roundabout -- a major roundabout in the middle of
that enhance that or does it detract and how does that fit. So, sometimes they are -- they
are different goals, so we just have to figure out how that works. So, we would like a little
more time, as Councilman Borton has requested, to figure that out.
May: All right. Thank you, sir. All right.
Baker: Madam President?
May: Yes, Commissioner Baker, final thoughts. Okay.
Baker: I just would like to say that we can't -- we -- okay. This was a very expensive
project and it -- it would be a major hit to the taxpayers of Ada county, which we serve,
not just Meridian. We love Meridian, but we serve all the taxpayers of Ada county. If you
keep -- people are absolutely interested in and having a discussion amongst yourselves,
I would suggest you put it on your next council meeting, which is what, Monday or
Tuesday -- I'm not sure exactly when you meet. Tuesday. Because our next meeting is
Wednesday and if we go to Wednesday and say, well, let's give this another week, I mean
we are two weeks out then. The notice to proceed is very close. This project is dependent
upon getting the water out of the canals. Once the water goes back into the canals you
can't do anything. So, I would suggest you all put this on your agenda for Tuesday and
discuss it and, then, you will have some input into our meeting next week. Right now I'm
not -- I -- I will be honest, I'm not inclined to -- to change this project. It's been there
forever. I -- I didn't -- with all due respect, Mayor, I didn't say the project has to be gotten
right after five years, I said the project, you know, should be discussed earlier on. It's --
it's -- and, then, people should be accepting of it as we move forward, unless something
radical changes and, quite frankly, the -- the -- Meridian has been on this path for a long
time. The developments have been going in this area for a long time and will continue.
So, I would -- I would, again, suggest put it on your agenda for Tuesday, discuss it
amongst yourselves and, then, have someone attend our meeting and relate to us what
you all discussed.
May: Thank you, Commissioner Baker. Final thought? Commissioner Arnold.
Hansen: Yeah, Madam President?
Page 54
Meridian City Council-Ada County Highway District
Item#3. October 22,2020
Page 24 of 26
May: Yeah, just one second, Commissioner Hansen. Commissioner Arnold has already
-- go ahead.
Arnold: I just wanted to follow up on -- on what Commissioner Baker just said. We are
at a critical timing point, because some of the work must be done while the water is out
of the canal, so if we can't get a decision to proceed, then, it's going to -- it -- there is no
point in going forward with the project, because it will delay it for at least a year. And
just want to be a good partner with Meridian. I want to understand what Meridian wants
for its city. So, if we can provide the information to the City of Meridian very quickly, so
that they can talk about this on Monday and we could get some input from the City of
Meridian for our -- our meeting next week, then, we can make a decision, because if we
are going to go forward with the project we are going to have to make that decision
probably within a week, possibly two. I'm looking to our staff for that, but it sounds to me
like it's something we are going to have to decide next week. So, I just want clear direction
from the City of Meridian as to, you know, what -- what's your direction for your city, how
do you want us to proceed.
May: And we will make sure all additional information that's been requested is sent to the
city, so that they have that before their -- before their meeting. Thank you, Commissioner
Arnold. Commissioner Hansen, final thoughts.
Hansen: Yes. Madam President and Mayor Simison, I -- I think you hit the nail on the
head in making an observation. I think everybody atACHD has done their job as we have
told them to do their job. We -- we measure the movement of cars. Level or service for
cars is how we measure the prioritization of projects. This year finally we have initiated a
process to say we have to incorporate level of service for pedestrians and bicycles and
attached to our budget agreement was a requirement that staff come forward with a policy
in March of 2021 that, then, gives us the metrics, the ability to weigh -- if we are to improve
the level of service for cars, say go from level D -- or level F to level E in ten years, what
does that do to the level of service for pedestrians and bicyclists and people going to
businesses. We have no metrics that we use to counter balance. If we move from one
level for cars and we say, okay, that's justification, but, in fact, we go down two or three
levels, for bicycles, pedestrians, the people sort of intuitively know if you do this this is not
going to feel safe. People are not going to want to put businesses here. We may have
to actually bus kids to the school, instead of letting them walk. We need to be able to
have those metrics. We will finally have something, because it's already in our software.
We use software out of Florida, Department of Transportation, to do level of service for
cars. It has a -- it has a -- a tool in there for level of service for bicycles and pedestrians.
We will actually be evaluating things differently next year. The other is that we also don't
measure economic development and we have run into this with all the cities. We are
going to put these in. We don't measure the impacts on the businesses. I think we have
to have a process where you come in early and say to cities we are land use, we have to
live with the economic impact of your decision, let us do the evaluation of whether this is
going to encourage business investment or discourage it, so that we can, then, say that's
not a great priority, let's put it into this priority. Or it can also weigh into the design of -- of
the intersection. So, it's not just about the movement of cars, it might be about access --
Page 55
Meridian City Council-Ada County Highway District
Item#3. October 22,2020
Page 25 of 26
improved and creative access to insure investment. Because, of course, both ACHD and
the city have to rely on property taxes for our income and if we don't really have some
kind of quantitative return on investment -- so, I think it's appropriate that you are asking
us let's do this right, because in the long run if it actually increases cost and decreases
value, then, we shouldn't be doing it this way. We should do it right, because it's going to
be there -- when you and I are both in the grave it's still going to be there. So, we need
to get this right, whether water is in the canal this year or the next year or the next year,
let's get this right. So, just know that we will have different tools next year and that we
should develop a process that incorporates the city in understanding the economic
impacts of our decisions. Because we are quite unique, as you know, in this -- normally
it would be -- if it was in another county you would be doing it yourself, but we have these
two entities and we do not have the tools or we don't use these tools currently in terms of
determining what is or isn't the best design and so I think you are seeing a change, a shift
-- it's slow, but you are seeing that shift and so that might be helpful in your entering into
your discussion as to what you might request of ACHD on this project.
May: All right. Thank you, Commissioner Hansen. All right. Mayor Simison, our
takeaways. You are going to take the lead on the letter. We are going to do the joint letter
for the ITD -- to the ITD board; is that correct?
Simison: Yes.
May: Okay. And we are going to give some additional information to you and your
Council, so that you can have that in preparation for your meeting on Tuesday and, then,
we will expect to hear back from you after that and am I missing anything?
Simison: No. We will discuss this next Tuesday and --
May: Okay.
Simison: -- get the commission information back. We appreciate Commissioner Arnold
making that -- giving us at least that ability to provide that input and we understand ACHD
will make the final decision as it relates to it, but we will give you our two cents on what,
as a collective body, we see as the right approach and, hopefully, you will take that into
consideration when you decide to move forward or not.
May: All right. And the other take away, increase communication, keep in touch, reach
out and work together. So, that's when good things happen. So, we appreciate
everybody joining us this morning. Good discussion. And with that I will -- with no further
comment, I will adjourn the ACHD commission and, Mayor Simison, if you would like to
do that for your members.
Simison: I will accept a motion from our council.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, I move that we adjourn the meeting.
Page 56
Meridian City Council-Ada County Highway District
Item#3. October 22,2020
Page 26 of 26
Hoaglun: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor signify
by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it and we are adjourned.
May: All right. Thank you very much. Have a great day, everyone. All right. Bye-bye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:20 A.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
11 / 04 2020
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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