2020-07-14 Regular Meridian City Council July 14, 2020.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:02 p.m., Tuesday, July
14, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica
Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Adrienne Weatherly, Bill Nary, Joe Dodson, Tracy
Basterrechea, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1 : Roll-call Attendance:
X_ Liz Strader _X_Joe Borton
X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, I will call this meeting to order. For the record it is Tuesday, July 14th,
2020, at 6.02 p.m. We will begin tonight's City Council meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
Simison: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance, which I will ask Councilman Borton to,
please, lead us in.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Adoption of Agenda
Simison: Item No. 3 is adoption of the agenda.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Unless I hear otherwise, it looks like our agenda is set for this evening. I would
move approval of the agenda as presented -- as published.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any
discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The
ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
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Item 4: Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Madam Clerk, do we have anybody signed up under future meeting topics?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Item 5: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Franklin Storage (H-2020-0033) by Franklin
Storage, LLC, Located Near the Half-Mile Mark on the North
Side of E. Franklin Rd., Between S. Eagle Rd. and S.
Cloverdale Rd.
1 . Request: Annexation and Zoning of 5.143 acres of land with
an I-L zoning district to accommodate the future construction
of a self-service storage facility.
Simison: Okay. Then we will move directly into Action Items. We will open up Action
Item 5-A, a public hearing for Franklin Storage, H-2020-0033, and I will turn this over to
Joe for staff comments.
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, Council Members. The first project
before you tonight is for Franklin Storage, Item No. 5-A. The site consists of 5.143 acres
of land currently zoned RUT and located near the half mile mark between South Eagle
Road and South Cloverdale on the north side of Franklin Road. The proposed annexation
is for these five acres of land and a requested zoning designation of I-L, which is light
industrial, and this application is only for annexation and zoning and the associated new
development agreement, not a plat. As noted, the subject site is labeled as general
industrial in the City of Meridian Comprehensive Plan. This future land use designation
allows a range of uses, including warehouses, light manufacturing, flex space and storage
units. The applicant has provided a concept plan depicting a self storage facility that staff
is not approving with this application. Staff believes that tying this annexation and
subsequent DA to a specific site plan could create difficulty for both staff and developers
in the future. For example, if the concept idea were to change, as markets sometimes
dictate, staff believes that a site that is only annexed and zoned I-L is a better fit for the
City of Meridian than a property that is tied to a specific self storage site plan. Staff
supports this annexation and zoning, but does not believe a self storage facility is the
highest and best use of the site. Thus this annexation will be recommended to not be
tied to a specific site plan. This applicant intends to develop the site as a self storage
facility, which is a principally permitted use in the I-L zoning district. As stated above, staff
does not see this as the highest and best use of the property unless staff has reviewed
and analyzed the submitted concept plan, but will not be providing conditions of approval
to correct any issues noticed. Instead, staff offered these comments within the analysis
of the staff report. Access to this site is proposed to be an extension of an industrial
collector way, East Landmark Street, which bisects the property. Direct access to East
Franklin Road will be prohibited, except for an emergency access that is required to meet
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the two points of access requirement for the specific use standards of self storage. East
Lanark Street bisects the subject property as noted and, therefore, requires the property
to be subdivided prior to future development. Because of this the city will have the
opportunity to fully analyze and condition the site plan that will be submitted with that
application or any future subdivision application. In addition, any new industrial or
commercial building will also be required to apply for a certificate -- certificate of zoning
compliance and administrative design review, which gives staff yet another opportunity to
review the site and its design. East Franklin Road is designated as an entryway corridor
on the master street map. Because of this designation buildings should be held to a
higher standard than the traditional design standards for industrial buildings. Staff has
previously required adjacent industrial buildings to adhere to the commercial building
design standards, rather than just the industrial. Therefore, staff also is recommending a
DA provision any future buildings on the site comply with the commercial architectural
design standards. The Planning and Zoning Commission heard these items on May 28th,
2020, and recommended approval of the applicant's request for annexation and zoning.
The main points of discussion of this were the applicant's desire to only annex and not
develop at this time and also the flexibility of not tying annexation to the submitted concept
plan. And with that I will stand for questions. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for Joe at this time?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I was a little confused on this one. There had been a long practice of not doing
annexations without plats or at least concept plans to tie it to and I couldn't figure out, in
light of the request, why -- why is there an ask to annex this property now?
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Borton. The main point is they do at this current time intend to
do self storage. But, again, as I stated in my staff report, I --we have all stated it -- another
self storage facility is not necessarily what we want. That's why I'm not tying it to this
specific site plan. I -- we do need more industrial zoning and if things tend to change and
we can use that industrial zoning for something else -- even the applicant has stated that
they are open to doing that. Maybe doing different things on the site. And at this time
they are not yet prepared to offer a very specific site plan or preliminary plat for that. If
East Lanark Street didn't bisect the property, then, they wouldn't have to plat it.
Technically they could just do all the buildings on one line. However, because of that they
are going to have to at least subdivide it there. But further subdivision may occur if they
want to do different types of uses on the property.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: I don't mean to speak for Council Borton, but I guess maybe also what he's
asking -- or what I'm understanding is what would be the purpose of the city taking on this
responsibility from -- from a service standpoint if there isn't a concept plan or an intention
of the applicant to move forward in the near future. And I apologize for my simple
question, but --
Dodson: No.
Perreault: -- that's --
Dodson: Thank you, Council Member Perreault. They are -- it's not a simple question. I
understand. It's -- I don't know exactly the timeline of when the applicant intends to
subdivide the property, but I know that it's not a five year plan or anything like that. There
is an intention to do it sooner rather than later. I could have tied this to the concept plan,
but I decided not to, because I would rather have an opportunity to maybe work with the
applicant and get some type of other use -- maybe some more flex space and not just self
storage on the site. So, that -- that was more of my reasoning behind not requiring the
concept plan with it. I think there could be some more massaging that me and the
applicant could do to -- to better -- better benefit the city than just more self storage.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor and Joe, so it looks like on page ten that we do adopt a development
agreement as part of this, but it is -- the DA shall -- I'm quoting from that -- at a minimum
incorporate the following provisions and it looks like it's just referencing to the extension
of Lanark, sidewalks, turning radiuses, all the minimum things that need for that property
-- whether it's storage or whatever else it might be; is that correct? Did I read that
correctly?
Dodson: Mr. Hoaglun, yes, that is correct. Yeah. As of right now, because there is not a
specific site plan, just those basic needs. I could have required certain other things with
regards to the concept plan that was submitted, but because I'm not tying it to the concept
plan I found that that would just be a waste, because if it were to be subdivided or a
different use came we would just have to strike all those out anyways.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor and Joe, thank you.
Dodson: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for staff? Mr. Cavener?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor. Thanks. Joe, I noted that this came up at P&Z. Can you summarize
for Council what complications you have had with the applicant at Planning and Zoning
before tonight? And your comments are -- kind of suggest that you wanted to continue to
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work with the applicant with the particular pieces. I'm just curious what has happened
since P&Z prior to today?
Dodson: Council Member Cavener, thank you. Mr. Mayor. No specific additional
conversations have happened since the Planning and Zoning Commission, other than a
brief discussion in e-mail where he had a -- he had thanked us, you know, for our time
and, then, he had stated that he could intend to see some flex space on -- with storage
here or even some type of commercial use closer to Franklin, depending on the use.
Again, nothing specific has been discussed, but Mr. Hatch, the applicant, is -- and from
what I understand the owner of the property is very willing to do something other than just
storage. They, too, would like to see more than one use on the property. And I apologize
I don't have any more specific answers to that, sir.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Joe, the -- the omission of conditions of approval, you know, kind of caught me
off guard and I'm just -- my assumption is that's not something the applicant requested,
that's something that on an administrative level the decision was made to not provide
that?
Dodson: Council Member Cavener, yes, sir, that is -- again, the reason why I didn't do
that is because I'm not tying it to the site plan. If I tied it to the site plan there would be
conditions of approval related to the site plan, but because there isn't one and it's just
going to be annexing the land, let's say they only developed the southern portion,
regardless of when they extend to East Landmark they are going to have to subdivide,
they are going to have to do some type of plat and that will require other conditions of
approval and, then, on top of that there will be a CZC and design review, which will have
other conditions of approval regarding whatever use is proposed. But that was
intentional.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I guess maybe a question and I'm not sure if it should be directed toward
planning staff or maybe legal, but by potentially approving an annexation without those
conditions and with this general zoning, but no real specifics, is there -- is there a trade
off? Is there something that -- that we are giving up that we would normally get in terms
of the, you know, real discretion with an annexation? I'm just curious if there is any
feedback on that or if we just feel pretty confident that at a staff level there is so much
oversight during these further phases that were covered.
Dodson: Council Woman Strader, thank you for your question. It's -- just annexing in, if
they don't develop it, there should not be any additional cost to the city services. It's just
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going to sit there and continue to be vacant, you know. More than that if they -- when
they decide to develop it, you know, we -- we are gaining another five acres of I-L zoning,
which we desperately need in the city right now and that -- as I discussed in my staff
report that is part of the reasoning of me not approving this concept plan of self storage.
I think that, you know, Mr. Hatch stated specifically in the Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting that he is also willing to work and provide some other uses on the
site, too. So, I think that there is potential to get something better than just more storage
facilities on site and if we just annex we do leave that flexibility in there versus if -- yes,
he could have come in with a plat to subdivide it, but it's not necessarily the -- the end of
the road. We are not losing anything by making them come back and having to do that
again.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Strader, maybe to add on to what
Joe said. I don't think this would be wise in other types of zones with residential and such.
That's why you always have concept plans and they are -- and elevations and things that
you want to tie to, because that's what you like. In industrial, again, there is certain uses,
so I think basically what Planning is saying is we are comfortable with any uses that
industrial would allow within that five acres and it sounds like Mr. Hatch is also agreeable
to considering some of those other things. So, this is avoiding the potential need for a
modification of a DA. That's really what you are avoiding right now, because, again, you
are -- you have got limited uses, again, in an I-L and we don't have that much I-L in the
city now, as much as we'd like, so this is really an addition of I-L with, again, limited uses,
so you are not at risk like you are in a residential or an office or commercial setting where
you have no idea what's going to go there. Here you have got a list of things that are
fairly limited that are going to have to be congruent with other adjacent I-L. So, I think
this is one that this is -- makes the most sense to give that level of flexibility that you
wouldn't have in some of the other annexations you see.
Simison: Council, any further questions for staff at this time?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yes. Just a quick follow up to confirm that the annexation to industrial is
exclusively what's listed here, so warehouses, light manufacturing, flex space, storage
and there isn't some type of -- let's say heavy industrial use that Council may not like that
could come in that might not be compatible with adjacent residential areas.
Dodson: Council Woman Strader, regardless of if they came in with a plat or any use
right now, that could always change and it would -- if it comes in under I-L, then, all of
those permitted or conditional uses would be allowed. Obviously, with a conditional use
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it would come before Planning and Zoning Commission, so -- versus doing it now or later,
it's -- having the I-L zoning is going to allow those uses there regardless, but, again, all
industrial zones require the CZC, certificate of zoning compliance, and design review, so
we will, again, have another opportunity to check what use they are proposing. It's not
going to be a free for all when -- once it's annexed.
Strader: Thanks.
Dodson: You are welcome.
Simison: Okay. Thank you. Is the applicant here with us in the virtual room?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor -- there he is. Mr. Hatch?
Simison: Mr. Hatch?
Hatch: Do you want me to introduce myself, address, all that kind of --
Simison: Yes. If we could give your name and address for the record and you will be
recognized for 15 minutes.
Hatch: City Council Members and city staff, thank you for hearing the application this
evening. Jeff Hatch with Hatch Design Architecture. Our address is 200 West 36th Street
in Boise, Idaho. 83714. We were involved at least in some of the public hearings last fall
with the Comprehensive Plan and FLUM amendments and -- and workshops. Through
-- through that and a brief pre-application meeting that we had with the city that there was
a recommendation that we present to City Council the consideration of rezoning or
recommending that the Comprehensive Plan be adjusted to have this area be light
industrial and that presentation was well received and it's reflected in Joe's presentation
from there, talking with -- with Joe and staff, the intent was for us to be able to annex
these properties, one, because of the bigger picture of what we got out of that
comprehensive workshop and public hearings was, you know, there was a lot of concern
for growth -- the need for growth and considerations for residential development, but, you
know, on the -- on the industrial side there is a grave need in Meridian for light industrial
and the opportunity for that type of commercial development in the future. Is that storage?
Maybe. Is that flexible space for various different businesses? Maybe. Is that any of the
other intended uses of light industrial? I think so. And so in talking with the applicant and
-- my clients, our intention is -- is to propose light industrial and to develop that in the
intent of the light industrial and so I think, you know, based on market needs and
businesses moving into the area, that may be an opportunity for some flex space and
maybe an opportunity for storage and maybe opportunity for other intended uses in that
light industrial. But I would agree with -- with Joe and his direction as far as trying to keep
this not tied to a DA. We have worked on many a DA project in the past where maybe a
DA that has no timeline, it's been around for 30 years and has no relevance to the actual
current date, situation and surroundings of the area and trying to kind of unravel that to
make sense of it in many cases becomes very confusing, very expensive and very
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convoluted and so based on the CZC, the design review, and all of the other processes
that we are going to have to go through to develop these uses, it will be at least two
parcels in the future. We felt that Joe's recommendations were prudent for this and we
are in favor with the staff recommendations for this annexation and so with that I would
stand for -- for any questions.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Just one. Jeff, the question that was asked to staff I -- in fairness will ask to you.
I -- the annexation by itself is extremely rare and what, if anything, is gained by doing the
annexation now, as opposed to -- I mean it's -- it's comp planned to be industrial and
everyone thinks it's going to be industrial, so why annex now with no development plan,
as opposed to bringing an annexation application at the time you -- you finally know what
you want to do there? And I understand what the city loses to some degree by doing it in
two parts. So, help me understand what the applicant gains by doing it this way, if
anything.
Hatch: I mean we gain the ability to -- to help annex industrial land into City of Meridian.
As far as, you know, the -- my client's intent and use, I don't -- I don't know if there is any
individual benefits that -- that he really gains, other than helping Meridian. I know there
was the comment about, you know, as -- as this use or -- and/or proposed use and review
-- and we were required to go through the same expectation as we would if this was tied
to a DA, so we had to do engineering, we had to do modeling for the water and make
sure that the infrastructure would be suitable for the proposed layout. Would there be
modifications through CZC and -- and design review. Absolutely. But can the intended
use be utilized on that site. Yes. And that has been rammed through in this whole review.
So, I think the -- the expectation, at least for my client, is that at least a portion of this
would be utilized for storage. Would all of it be utilized for storage? I think both myself
and the -- the future of owner of the property, the applicant, would like to keep an open
mind based on the city's needs for this property and the surrounding properties. I think
the consideration for being able to bring this into Meridian is something that we see benefit
for a future development, but to answer your question more specifically, staff
recommended that we take this approach and we respect their vision and insight.
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
Dodson: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Joe.
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Dodson: So, just to clarify, the project would be tied to a DA, but not a concept plan. I
just want to make sure that Mr. Hatch and everybody understands that -- that is very clear
-- will be tied to a DA, but not a concept plan.
Simison: Council, any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Seeing none, Madam
Clerk, do we have anybody who has signed up to testify?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we do not.
Simison: Okay. Well -- and there is nobody in the room. Is there anybody online who --
who would like to testify? If so, if you could, please, indicate by raising your hand at the
bottom of the screen. We do have one person who has raised their hand. If you could
state your name and address for the record and you will be recognized for three minutes.
This is for Greg.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, I have asked Greg to unmute.
Simison: There we go.
Ferney: I'm sorry. Can you hear me now?
Simison: Yes, we can.
Ferney: Okay. I apologize. I actually did not mean to hit that -- the hand. I didn't intend
to testify. I would just echo that -- both what staff and Jeff Hatch have stated and we have
worked diligently with staff to come up with a solution that they are very comfortable with
and more comfortable with and so that's -- that's all I have to report.
Simison: Greg, could you say your name and address for the record, please.
Ferney: Yeah. Yes. Greg Ferney. F-e-r-n-e-y. At 4549 North Mackenzie Lane in Boise.
83703.
Simison: Thank you very much. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Seeing no one else with their hand raised or in the room, would the applicant like to
provide any last comments on this application?
Hatch: I would just, again, like to thank City Council and staff. You know, we don't rezone
property and go through the workshop that -- that has transpired over the last couple of
years in Meridian very often and so taking a look at this area, what would be the best
zoning for that. You know, it was an exciting process to be involved with and there is a
lot of change in Meridian, which is exciting, but also takes a lot of thought and insight.
So, we appreciate your time and consideration. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any comments or questions?
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Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Before we close the public hearing I guess to summarize the -- the concern that
I had reviewing the application was just that the process in an annexation without a
concept plan or a plat or something in more detail always seemed to beg the question of
-- you know, Councilman Rountree used to call it the -- is it the right time and what's the
rush and -- and I couldn't still figure out what the purpose of this to an annexation by itself
was with this one, knowing that the comp plan says it's going to be industrial, it's --whether
it's today or it's future, it's going to be an industrial zone, but we have always liked to have
the plat or concept plan with DA provisions. Councilman Cavener referenced it. You don't
know what you don't know until the future and this is the only time at the annexation
process where the Council and Mayor have a voice in what some of those details might
be and it might be small and inconsequential, but oftentimes it's more than nothing. So,
the benefit to the development community we have been -- we have been pretty
consistent saying don't bring an annexation by itself, you run a huge risk it's just not going
to fly. Not that it's the wrong zone or -- or there is anything wrong with it, we just don't
have the details we need to make the decision if it's appropriate to become part of
Meridian today, as opposed to sometime in the future. So, this one the risk might be
miniscule -- minimal. Mr. Nary's provided some good guidance that the -- the variabilities
might be small, but, again, they are more than zero. So, that's why I had the initial
concern. I still have it, even though it may be smaller here that -- and for the benefit of
the community, the risk I think is if we -- if we are open to it approving annexations by
themselves sometimes and not others, I don't know where the line is and we certainly
don't want folks to come to this stage to find out that it's on one end of the spectrum and
not the other, because they would be rightfully concerned and our staff needs to know our
perspective, just so we can consistently apply it. So, I'm extremely reluctant to approve
it, but I understand this one's pretty unique and I'm not fighting to -- one way or the other,
but -- at least that's the policy consideration for me that makes any annexation by itself
almost never.
Simison: So, from a process question -- and I don't -- can you tie the concept plan that's
in there, that's not recommended to this if you wanted to at this point in time? And I'm not
saying we would want to, but I'm just saying is that even an option to tie the concept when
the staff said not to tie to it, if Council wanted to have something.
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, basically the staff recommendation was simply
to not tie it to the concept plan that's been submitted. I mean that's -- that's about the
only one you could tie it to at this point --
Simison- Right.
Nary: -- it's the only thing that's been noticed that was part of the application. So, if that
was the direction of the Council that -- that -- although staff has advised that that you
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would like it tied to that initial concept plan that was submitted I don't see any conflict in
the code to allow for that, so --
Borton- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: And I'm -- I'm not advocating for that, but I think if we tied it to a concept plan the
developer didn't want to do they wouldn't sign the DA.
Simison: Right.
Borton: It would just all fall apart anyway. So, again, I'm not -- I don't have terrible
heartburn, other than the policy considerations that are already described.
Dodson: Mr. Mayor?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just wanted to mention to Councilman Borton. It's a little hard to hear you from
time to time, kind of fading a little in and out. I think we are tracking. I think we got most
of it.
Borton: I will get closer.
Strader: I share that concern as well. I -- I guess I would have to -- I just haven't heard
a great compelling reason why we have to do it this way and I -- I feel like we are giving
up a level of control that we would normally have had it sounds like in the past. I don't
know what the harm would be in just continuing this or, you know, maybe not approving
it, but not creating a time frame where they can't come back when they have more
information.
Simison: Joe.
Dodson: Mayor. Yeah. I understand the Council Members' concerns. I do. One part of
that I believe is -- the next step would be to plat it, which does not require a DA. So, in
order to help bring maybe some clarity or another opportunity for Council Members to add
or remove DA provisions perhaps you could recommend a DA provision that any future
subdivision will require a modified DA and gives you the opportunity to use a development
agreement again to mitigate any potential issues at the future subdivision and future uses.
Food for thought.
Simison: Council, any additional thoughts or comments at this time? Any action item that
the Council would like to take on this item?
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Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To force the issue just for a bit, if there was -- if there is a different perspective
on the policy consideration of being consistent that -- let's visit about it now. Again, I'm
not -- I have said my peace. If we are all on the same page we can be consistent, that's
great, but if we are not, if there is something that I'm missing for this discussion, by all
means. I -- Joe, you are being super creative on the fly, but sometimes that bites us if we
are trying to round peg square hole things here at the 11 th hour, as opposed to being
consistent on the front end, so --
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just wanted to comment. Yeah, I don't oppose the application to change it to
I-L zoning. I think all the things are there, but in the listening to Councilman Borton talk
about policy and our procedures and consistency and I do like it when we are consistent.
We don't surprise people. We know what the process -- they know what the process is.
We know how we move forward on things. So, you know, I don't have any heartburn not
-- to not approve this and let them come forward at a future date to --with -- with a concept
that is something we could accept, along with the zoning change. So, I think there is
decent sideboards on it, but at the same time, if we are going to be doing some things
that are kind of out of character for the Council historically and in the future, then, I think
we probably should be consistent.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: In general I'm in agreement with Councilman Borton and Hoalgun's comments
and -- but I am hesitant if there is a vote that results in denial to limit their ability to come
back within a year's time. So, just want to keep that -- it's my understanding that it would
-- it would prohibit them from applying within a year if something changed in their -- is that
right?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I think if it's the same or similar application, but this is just an annexation
application with almost an express request to not tie it to a concept plan, with a new
application of any type of new? I might alleviate the concern.
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Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Perreault and Council
Member Borton, yeah, I would agree, since the -- I guess the only concern I would have
from where the Council's direction is going, it sounds like -- and Joe can correct me, but
from what I have read in the staff report and heard tonight, the -- the project came forward
with this project in mind. Staff wanting to be more creative and looking for additional types
of uses in the industrial zone, essentially talked them out of it and they agreed to look
beyond this and, then, not tied to a concept plan. So, it sounds like we talked them out
of the project that they wanted to do and now the Council is considering denying it. So,
it feels like it's a fairly tough outcome on a fairly narrowly defined project. I agree with
you, Council Member Borton, it's -- it's not common for the city, but I wouldn't say it never
happens. I mean we have annexed parcels with just the idea that whatever those uses
are that are allowed in that zone that's what they can do and so I wouldn't say we have
never done it, it is very uncommon for sure, but -- but that's -- you are right, if the Council
denial -- they come back with a plan -- in theory they could come back with this plan and,
then, there would be a new project, so that we wouldn't be barred by the year. But that's
kind of what I'm hearing and I don't know if -- if that's, you know, where the Council wants
to land, because, again, we have occasionally done it and occasion is really occasion,
so --
Simison: And, Mr. Nary, that -- that is -- that was the heart of where I was going when we
brought this up earlier was would this Council support the concept plan that's not tied to
this. Would you support that concept at this location. I think even the applicant hearing
that information would help them to -- regardless of whatever -- whatever action you do
take, whether or not it -- because if you don't like that -- storage in that location for this
purpose, you know, you could tie the concept plan back to this and deny it or you can
make a statement in other ways. But I think that's the -- the heart of what staff probably
ultimately needs is what you do want to see, if not -- or if you don't want to see that.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like staff has mentioned that the highest and
best use for this -- this piece of property isn't storage units and for that purpose they are
wanting to proceed as presented. So, that's where I have a little bit of a concern with it is
if this isn't the highest and best use for this piece of property and that's what staff believes,
I'm sort of confused as why you are wanting us to go this other direction. Maybe a little
bit more clarification in regard to that.
Dodson: Council Member Bernt. Sorry. Thank you for your question, sir. It -- I don't
have a good answer as to -- just going a little bit further back as to what we gain here
compared to doing this later. However, it -- my main point is to still annex the property,
maybe minimize a development agreement modification if we tied it to a concept plan that
changes because they deem -- oh, no, never mind, we don't want to do self storage. But
at the same time still gain us some guaranteed industrial zoning and offer us the
opportunity to be flexible in the uses that can go there, rather than just tying it to a self
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storage concept plan. That's the main points. If -- if the Council deems that annexations
cannot occur without a concept plan or plat, I'm not aware of that being in the code. It is
a policy decision? Yeah? I -- I'm more than understanding of that and I agree with the
consistency. I understand that, too.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And I understand planning's concern about the highest and best use for
industrial property, because that is something we don't have a lot of and to me industrial
is where we make stuff. I mean that's the place where we create, purchase raw materials,
put things together, employee people, and -- and this site has rail access, it has excellent
access to the freeway, and so I can see why they look at this and go, boy, the storage
units, that's where we are going to store the stuff that's made. Now where do we make
it? Well, we are going to make it in another country? No, let's make it here if we could.
So, I really get that for what they are saying about highest and best use and it might be if
this were to come forward as just storage, you know, it may not have flown before this
Council. But this is kind of unique, because we are being asked to annex and to apply a
DA with -- with those minimal standards for anything that might come forward we know
that would be applied to that property and what that is that's going to come forward we
don't know. Might -- as you -- as Planning staff pointed out, could be a variety -- a mixture
of things. So, I can see why this is not the highest and best use for industrial land and so
it would be nice to see something to work and make something.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I move that we close the public hearing on Item 5-A, H-2020-0033.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes
have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
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Borton: I will make a motion for discussion. I'm going to move that we deny Item 5-A, H-
2020-0033.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I will second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to deny the application. Is there discussion on
the motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Following up what's been said moments ago, I just -- I don't doubt this certainly
is going to be industrial land when it's zoned and will probably be wildly successful, but
what it actually becomes will determine at the time that the annexation comes forward
with its concept plan or plat, whether or not it's assembled with other parcels and comes
in as a larger package, whether it has higher and better uses, as Councilman Hoaglun
describes, we can cross that bridge when it comes. Again, there is nothing that's -- no
unique benefit to doing the annexation by itself, but there are costs to the city in -- in doing
it in this fashion. So, for all of those reasons I think the motion is appropriate.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I agree with that reasoning and I also echo Councilman Hoaglun's comments. I
think if -- if just in general I were to be asked do you want to see just a ton of storage in
the precious amount of industrial land that we have on our rail corridor, for me the answer
is no. Then, hopefully, that's a good direction just from one person, but I don't believe
that that should really be the focus. If it's part of the bigger project, happy to consider it.
Simison: Is there further discussion on the motion? If not, the clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion to deny passes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
B. Public Hearing for Sagewood West Subdivision (H-2020-0038)
by Southpoint Estates, LLC, Located at 1335 W. Overland Rd.
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1 . Request: Annexation and Zoning of 10.41 acres of land with
an R-8 zoning district; and,
2. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 53 building lots and
7 common lots.
Simison: Council, we will move on to Item 5-13, public hearing for Sagewood West
Subdivision, H-2020-0038. We will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The project before you is a site
that consists of 10.41 acres of land and the request is for an application of annexation,
zoning, with a preliminary plat consisting of 53 building lots and seven common lots, one
of which is a common drive that serves three homes and acts as the emergency access
for the property to the west. The applicant is requesting an R-8 zoning designation, which
is an allowed designation under the future land use designation of medium density
residential. The proposed zoning and density is also consistent with that of the
surrounding development. The proposed development is in close proximity to existing
employment and shopping centers. Within a half mile is a Walmart, assisted living facility,
waterparks, school and the commercial intersection of Overland and Meridian Road.
These businesses offer both services and employment opportunities within walking
distance of this subdivision. Therefore, staff finds the development to be generally
consistent with the Comprehensive Plan policies and objectives. There is an existing
home on the site and it will be removed prior to development. The existing home has
access to West Overland, but this applicant has elected to close that access. In lieu of
an access to Overland, all accesses to this development are proposed via extensions of
existing local streets. Two from the east and one from the south. In addition to these
accesses, staff has recommended a condition of approval to make the proposed common
driveway also an emergency access for the adjacent parcel to the west. Staff is currently
processing a land use application for a commercial development on the property to the
west and an emergency access is a requirement of its proposed use. That application
involves a rezone and is proposing to change the zoning from residential to commercial.
But there is no guarantee that that application will be approved and the existing residential
zoning could remain. Therefore, staff's condition of approval regarding this access is
based on whether the parcel to the west develops as commercial or residential. Staff and
the applicant have worked together to write a condition that is amenable to both parties
in the interim. In the very southwest corner of the subject site there is a small sliver of
open space -- small sliver of open space that they are incorporating into their plat. It is
the rear of Lot 26, Block 1 , which was the revised plat they have made Lot 27, Block 1,
and it does not have adequate visibility for emergency or police services. The applicant
is incorporating this odd sliver into their plat in order to help the city fix a surveying mistake
from the past. In discussions with the applicant staff has requested this property owner
work with the property owner to the west to transfer this area to them. In doing so this
area will no longer be tucked away in a corner and would be usable space by that property
owner to the west. Staff has included a condition of approval for this request and the
applicant has agreed to it. The applicant has submitted sample elevations of the single
family homes for this project as depicted in the staff report. The single family homes are
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depicted as both single and two story structures, with two car garages and a variety of
finish materials. The homes are also shown with optional enhancements. For example,
larger garages or a different master bathroom layout. The submitted sample elevations
appear to meet the design requirements for single family homes. As with all preliminary
plats over five acres, a minimum ten percent qualified open space meeting the standards
in UDC 11-3G-3 is required for this development. Based on the proposed plat of 10.4
acres, a minimum of 1.04 acres of qualified open space should be provided and one site
amenity. The applicant is proposing 1 .25 acres of open space or approximately 12
percent, consisting of common lots with open space, located in larger lots on the end caps
of blocks. In addition the applicant is proposing pathways along the northern property
boundary that connect to West Overland Road. The open space lots at the end of the
develop -- end of the development provide two amenities, a picnic area with public art
and climbing boulders. The other proposed open space was in the north area of the
development, contains the micro pathway and added pedestrian access to Overland
Road. Prior to the Commission meeting the applicant addressed a condition regarding a
linear open space behind those lots in the north, lots one through ten, and the emergency
access to the adjacent property to the west. They revised the plat and this area of open
space now appears to meet the open space requirements and should be included in the
open space calculations. To be clear, the revised plat will satisfy staff's questions
surrounding the amount of qualified open space. The revised landscape plan and open
space exhibit should be provided to ensure congruency in all plans. Staff and Fire have
agreed with the location of the emergency access and its dimensions as well and that
emergency access again is that common driveway in the northwest corner of the site. As
you can tell between this plat and the open space exhibit where the pathway was in --
along the northern boundary has changed. They are now -- they took some of those lots,
one, two and three, took some of the rear of their lots away and connected that pathway
all the way through in order to count that area for open space. On May 28th the Planning
and Zoning Commission heard these items and recommended approval of the subject
applications. The key issues of discussion were the location and layout of the open space
and amenities within the subject site and in relation to the adjacent subdivision to the
east, which is Sagewood Subdivision. The applicant's request to modify staff's conditions
regarding changing the lot depths and adding landscaping to the northernmost lot, Lot 11 ,
Block 1 , and location of the proposed common drive and its purpose also serving as an
emergency access to the parcel to the west. Commission recommended changing
condition 2-B and 3-C and, then, to delete condition 2-C, since the condition had been
satisfied with the revised plat. The outstanding issue for Council, as slightly mentioned
before, is conditioned 2-E, which was the applicant was conditioned to convey Lot 27,
Block 1 , the odd sliver, to the property owner to the west prior to the -- to this hearing, but
has not yet done this. There was not enough time there. The applicant intends to comply
with this -- with this condition, but ran out of time. Staff is understanding of this and prior
to the development agreement being signed this will have to take place. So, the members
of the Council can recommend changing that condition to allow the applicant more time
to take care of that. And with that staff recommends approval of the subject application
and stands for questioning.
Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council, any questions for staff at this time?
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Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I guess a question for staff. Have we received any communication from West
Ada regarding this application? I did not see a letter from them. I understand they may
be trying to get their data gathering organized over there. But is there any kind of update
that they have provided?
Dodson: Council Woman Strader, Members of the Council, unfortunately, no, I did not
get any updated numbers from them.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Joe, could you go over again this challenge with the access to the property to
the west and help me understand what it is that I have concerns that that's not resolved I
guess before we make a decision this evening. So, hopefully, the applicant has
addressed that and will be able to share that with us in their testimony. But if they haven't,
then, what is the staff's feeling in regard to whether we would continue and wait to hear
from them or is there a comfort level on the south part that that could be taken care of
and -- and we could potentially move forward, if -- if there is a yes vote.
Dodson: Council Woman Perreault, thank you. Staff is comfortable with the way that the
revised plat has been designed, as well as the existing condition in the staff report that
will change the type of access that they would be meeting if the property to the west -- if
their future application to you is not approved. I don't know if I'm allowed to share more
of the details about what that is, because they are not being heard tonight, but it is
currently zoned residential R-8, but they want to rezone it to commercial, because these
properties along Overland have both future land use designations. The proposed use
that they have or -- they are hoping for requires an emergency access and because the
properties to the south and the west and directly to the west of that -- of the property
directly to the west -- so this site, those are all developed so there is no way to gain that
emergency access. This is the only avenue for them to do that and so it was gracious of
this applicant to work with them and turn that common drive into emergency access. That
question semi came up in the Planning and Zoning Commission where they were
recommended for approval previously on that application and the distance. This is not a
Fire requirement for this emergency access, it is a Planning requirement. So, there is no
need to have the required separation that would normally be there. So, that is why staff
is comfortable with its location and it will be bollarded -- they will have bollards, it will have
all of the same things to keep all kinds of traffic from there and only if there is an
emergency will it be used.
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Simison: Council, any further questions? Okay. I invite the applicant to come forward
and state your name and address for the record and, Mr. Clark, you are -- you are
recognized for 15 minutes.
Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Hethe Clark. 251 Front Street in Boise. And let me see if
I can get my screen to share now. There we go. Okay. So, this applicant -- or excuse
me. This application is -- is a great in-fill project located near Overland Road. It has
convenient access to shopping, schools, parks and the Meridian Road freeway
interchange. A couple of details about the layout and the project itself. The proposal, as
Joe mentioned, is for 53 residential units on 10.41 acres. It's proposed with an R-8 zone
that -- that is all exactly within what is identified in the Comprehensive Plan for this
location. This is a true in-fill project. There are always challenges associated with in-fill
and I think that the applicant's done a great job with this one. So, a couple of things that
I would emphasize as you look at the layout. One is that the applicant has agreed not to
take access onto Overland Road. I think that's a big deal. Instead, the site is designed
around three existing internal stub streets from the Fall Creek Subdivision on the south
and the Sagewood Subdivision on the east. I point out that in many ways this is a lot like
a new phase of the Sagewood Subdivision and matches the density with a slight transition
to what we understand is likely to be a commercial project to our west and as Joe
mentioned that -- my understanding that that application is in and there was a
recommendation of approval from P&Z. So, that -- that is not just a plan, that that is
something that's actually actively being considered by the city. And let me move on to
talk about -- a little bit about the amenities. As Joe mentioned, we are in excess of what
is required by code. We will have a pedestrian pathway, as well as accessory in
connection to Overland Road. We will have common area art and a seating area, as well
as climbing boulders. And I want to be clear about what those are. You know, climbing
boulders are -- are specifically designed to be able to be a child's amenity. They are not
just -- you know, it's not just dropping a rock in the middle of your open area and calling it
an entity. They are designed to be something that would be fun and useful for the
residents of the subdivision. As I mentioned, this is much like Sagewood to our east. We
are in discussions with them about potentially annexing into their HOA, which would be
great for everyone from an efficiency perspective. We have tried to choose amenities
that are complimentary as a result of that, but we do also stand on our own and we don't
require that annexation in order to be able to move forward. I do always like to show you
all, you know, some of the work that's gone into making the projects better through
conversations with staff and one item that we did work through was this pathway on the
north and northeast boundary of the project. As you can see that path is constrained by
the Hardin Drain, as well as the location of West Flower Garden Street, which has -- there
was an existing stub there which led to kind of a short edge on the property. What you
see on the screen and what's on the revised plat that Joe described is the solution that
we all came up with. The element that we are working through now is discussions with
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District to allow for some trees on the far side of the pathway.
So, on the other side of the drain on the subdivision side of that path. That's something
that we have been successful in negotiating in the past and we expect that that would be
the same here. With regard to the property to the west, again, that -- that emergency
access is not something that's required for us. We have three stubs already. But that is
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something that we have discussed with the -- with that neighbor and they were in
agreement with that emergency access location. And, again, we understand that that
project is moving forward through the city. So, I will wrap up with just kind of mention
again, the -- the project density does comply with the Comprehensive Plan designation
of medium density residential. There are no waivers of standards or variances that have
been requested here. It is true in-fill. I think it's great for the city and we would hope for
your approval. So, with that I'm happy to answer any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you for that presentation, Hethe. Did I understand correctly that this
will be part of a broader homeowner's association within Sagewood and that the residents
will have access to the amenities for each section?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, that is the intent and we have had
conversations with their HOA board. Obviously, everybody wants to know that we have
a real project before people put pen to paper to -- to memorialize that and put it in stone.
But that is what we expect is that the subdivision -- if this would act like a phase two of
Sagewood and folks would have access to all the amenities.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, a follow up.
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: The reason I ask is because I -- I have been selling homes for many years and
I have never had an applicant ask for an amenity regarding climbing rocks and I'm not
familiar with them as a neighborhood amenity and I'm curious if the applicant had
considered any other amenity possibilities and typically, you know, most of the time in
Meridian our developers have done great at providing excellent amenities. They are
aware that that's something that's important to us and I don't oftentimes make
recommendations for specific amenities, but in this situation, because of the location there
is -- there -- there is a park that's down around the corner near Bear Creek. However,
there -- there really aren't a lot of options for children in this area to -- to play and so in
this situation I do have concerns that that may not be substantial enough.
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, so I think I understand where you are
coming from. I would just state that count -- that this idea of climbing boulders is actually
quite popular. We are finding that it is a use that folks -- it's actually getting -- has more
of a lifespan of use than your typical tot lot. We -- we are seeing them used -- you know,
I have seen them with a number of clients, you know, throughout the valley and they have
-- they have worked great for -- as a children's amenity from that perspective. So, I would
just say that that's -- that's something that I think -- it's a qualifying amenity. I think it's
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market driven and our read of the market is that these --these are something that satisfies
exactly what Council Member Perreault was trying to address.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I don't usually chime in on amenities. I personally am a fan of them, because I
think it's rare now for kids to get risk based play, which is really important for their
development, and this is really something different. So, I'm not opposed to them at all. I
have some concerns about the location of the open space and maybe if you could maybe
comment a little more around the choice of the locations for those open space areas and
the wider vision that I don't -- I just don't feel like they are very centralized.
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Strader, we like to have, you know, entries to the
developments that are open and inviting and so that's part of why we like to have -- why
we would like to have that open space there. But I would just be clear that they are fenced
in. There is -- there is safety that's kept in mind with -- with all of this and I would also
point out that we -- that the amenities are both on the top and the bottom of the project.
So, people are able to -- you know, if you want to get out to Overland, you know, you are
going to the appropriate location to do that. If you want to take advantage of the play
amenities you would be going away from the transportation corridor. It's a -- it's a small
development, you know, we are talking about, you know, ten acres total. It is not a -- it's
not a long jaunt for anybody to get to the -- to the open space.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one question, Hethe. On that condition 1-E that referenced that sliver on
that southwest corner, it sounds like that -- efforts have been made and it's almost
resolved, not yet resolved. What would -- would you recommend to be the trigger date
or due date of accomplishing that task? That would be included in 1-E to kind of
memorialize when that has to occur.
Clark: Council Member Borton, Mr. Mayor, it's -- that's -- it's a good question. You know,
one thing to keep in mind is that I believe that our neighbor to the west in the -- in the
county still, so -- or -- yeah. Excuse me. He's in the city. We are -- yeah. I got that
backwards. So, what we have envisioned -- and it's probably six of one, half a dozen of
the other, in terms of how this actually gets taken care of. What we had envisioned was
just plat it and convey that lot. That doesn't create any legal split or do anything along
those lines and, then, they can do a lot consolidation to just absorb it. I think that's the
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easiest thing to do, you know, and maybe we just are required to -- to convey in
connection with our development agreement recording or something along those lines.
To me that -- you know, we -- we are making the commitment to -- to address that. You
know, the logistics I think are pretty straightforward and can be taken care of either --
either way. To me it makes more sense just to plat it and convey the lot itself.
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any additional questions at this time? Thank you, Hethe. Appreciate
it.
Clark: You bet.
Simison: Mr. Clerk, do we have anybody signed up to testify on this item?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, we have nobody signed up for this.
Simison: Okay. We have nobody in the room. Is there anybody who is online that would
like to provide testimony on the item? If so, if you could indicate by raising your hand
using the button at the bottom of the Zoom platform. Seeing nobody who would like to
provide testimony on this item, Mr. Clark, do you have any last comments you would like
to make?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, no, not at this time, unless there is other questions.
Simison: Okay. Well, then, Council, I will turn this back over to you. Is there any further
discussion or comments or motions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I agree with Council Woman Strader's comments about the location of the --
of the open space. I'm not a fan of how it's set up. I would really like to see something
more centralized as well. But also realize that it is a small project, so it's not as if these
are going to be --the open spaces are going to be far away from each other, but I wouldn't
mind actually hearing from Mr. Clark before we close the public hearing if there was
consideration made for any other locations for those open spaces.
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, you know, we -- we look at all of those
various alternatives. I think, you know, something to keep in mind is that if you move the
common area to the -- to the middle of the project, what you end up having when you
enter the project is -- you are either looking at the front or backs of houses and it makes
for a less descript project. You know, in this case you get a -- as you -- as you are driving
into the project you get a much better feel in our view of what the project is all about and
what the theme of it should be and we don't -- you know, what you are talking about is,
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you know, the difference of walking the distance of five or six, you know, a lot to get to
that area on the south. So, from our perspective it makes for a -- a better, more
marketable project, if we have it in an area that -- that functions also as an entry.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Maybe I will kick off a little bit of discussion. Would have hoped -- obviously,
going forward I think we are -- we are hoping to get data and input from West Ada. I'm
kind of torn -- I'm really hesitating to even approve projects if they are not providing input.
On the other hand, this is an in-fill project and it's a relatively small unit count, which
maybe leads me to make an exception to not punish this one applicant, while we give
West Ada a reasonable amount of time to provide some more input. But I would be
curious as to the rest of Council's opinion on that.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Council Member Strader, I think your -- I think your concern is valid, but I think
that it is not the applicant's responsibility to ensure that another jurisdiction provides non-
required comment. I think the district is well aware of our response to feedback from the
citizens, from their patrons, from the district themselves about the impact of development
on classroom size and if they chose not to send something to us it's disappointing, but
I'm not in a place that I think that we need to slow or penalize, for lack of a better word,
the applicant because of that. You're right, it is a small in-fill project. I'm pleased that they
are -- they are taking -- they are not taking their access off of Overland. It complements
the area nicely. My hope is is that the neighbors to the east want to join up and this really
does become kind of a de facto second phase. I don't see any compelling reason to deny
this project. I'm in support of it and be happy to --
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I'm leaning towards the same thought process in terms of this application,
again, based on the fact that it's clearly in-fill, which we need, and it's also a small unit
count. I guess my hesitation -- challenge that I'm seeing is if this was a much much bigger
project, if this was hundreds of units I think I would have a really hard time taking the
same view. And maybe it's an order of magnitude for me, but I do think for very large
projects we would have to have that input at least for me to feel comfortable. But I agree
with you on this one.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I understand that Mary McPherson is the elementary school that is going --
undergoing an expansion right now. I don't recall off the top of my head what that is going
to allow for student count. I am aware that Hillsdale Elementary is -- is busing some of
their students to Mary McPherson. I don't know how that's going to end up playing out
for the school year. I think that this project would actually be within the boundaries of the
new elementary school that would be proposed if a bond were to get passed. I can't say
that for sure. I'm not a member of West Ada. But I believe that's the case. So, it's possible
that the students would only be at Mary McPherson for a couple of years. But what I
wanted to specifically say is that -- and to -- to let Mr. Clark know if he -- I imagine he is a
busy man and he isn't paying attention to every conversation we are having about the
school district, but I know myself and some -- some other Council Members in our
conversation with developers and different representatives of developers in the area, we
have asked them to help us to encourage the school district to give us clarity on what we
can do to respond to our residents who are --who are very strongly sharing their concerns
regarding schools, especially elementary schools being over capacity, and so I -- we feel
like -- I should say myself as a Council Member -- I can't speak for my other Council
Members -- I feel like we have been vocal with West Ada and done what we could do to
ask for them to make the changes that they are able to make and we are really hoping
that we can get a community effort to encourage the district to do the same.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Just to concur with Councilman Cavener's remarks. I think he laid it out
very well about this project and -- and I can -- I can move forward with that.
Simison: Council, any further comments or is there a motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I don't think we closed the public hearing yet, did we?
Simison: No, we have not.
Borton: Move we close the public hearing on Item 5-B, H-2020-0038.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Oppose nay. The ayes
have it.
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MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I think there is very sound and wise comments by Council that makes sense to
support approving this project. An additional comment is I think the inclusion of common
area art is to be commended. I think it's creative. I love seeing it. We probably don't see
enough of it around, so I appreciate that as an additional part of this project. I move that
we approve H-2020-0038 as presented on the staff report dated July 14th, 2020.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Item H-2020-0038. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Item 4: Ordinances [Action Item]
A. Ordinance No. 20-1885: An Ordinance (H-2020-0029 Midgrove
Plaza) for Rezone of a Parcel of Land Being a Portion of That
Parcel Described in Warranty Deed Instrument No. 111069481,
Ada County Records, and Also Being a Portion of "Parcel One"
as Described in Meridian City Ordinance No. 748, Recorded as
Instrument No. 96104790, Ada County Records, Lying Within the
East Half of the Southeast Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of
Section 7, Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada
County, Idaho; Establishing and Determining the Land Use
Zoning Classification of 1.963 Acres of Land From I-L ( Light
Industrial) Zoning District to C-G ( General Retail and Service
Commercial) Zoning District in the Meridian City Code;
Providing That Copies of This Ordinance Shall Be Filed with the
Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho
State Tax Commission, as Required by Law; and Providing for
a Summary of the Ordinance; and Providing for a Waiver of the
Reading Rules; and Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Item No. 6-A is Ordinance No. 20-1885. 1 will ask the Clerk to read this
ordinance by title.
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Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This ordinance related to H-2020-0029, Midgrove Plaza,
for rezone of a parcel of land being a portion of that parcel described in Warranty Deed
Instrument No. 111069481 , Ada county records and also being a portion of parcel one as
described in Meridian City Ordinance No. 748, recorded as instrument number 96104790,
Ada county records, aligning within the east half of the southeast quarter of the southeast
quarter of Section 7, Township 3 North, range 1-E, Boise meridian, Ada county Idaho,
establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of 1 .963 acres of land
from I-L, light industrial zoning district, to C-G, general retail and service commercial
zoning district, in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be
filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax
Commission as required by law and providing for a summary of the ordinance and
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
Simison: Council, you have heard this item read by title. Would you or any member of
the staff like -- or public like to have it read in its entirety? Hearing not, do I have a motion?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I approve -- I would move that we approve ordinance number 20-1885 with
suspension of rules.
Perreault: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the item under suspension of the
rules. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics
Simison: We have reached Item No. 7 under future meeting topics. Council, anything for
future meeting topics?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think I alluded to this earlier and hopefully under our emergency we can touch
on it. It's pretty clear from watching the Central District Health meeting that they have
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passed a mask order for Ada county. You know, I wanted some flexibility tonight, because
I -- I have been vocal and feel strongly that -- we are in unfortunate circumstances where
in order to protect the health of our community some type of a mask requirement is
necessary for those that can wear them. That being said, you know, I -- we may want to
consider -- and I would be curious if people would be interested in a future meeting topic,
perhaps on a more urgent special meeting basis, but in listening to their meeting it -- it
became clear to me that while they passed the mask order, they clearly had reservations,
because my understanding is that under state law an order from a Mayor or an order from
Central District Health can only be done if it becomes a misdemeanor and so my
understanding is that that could result in up to six months in jail, could result in up to a
thousand dollar fine. Certainly it's a very serious penalty for a situation that even the folks
in that meeting touched on a situation where education should come first. I would be
curious if in order to support the Central District Health mask order we might consider an
ordinance as a city that as long as their order is in place we would consider a process of
implementing it as an infraction. I feel that if Meridian were to support compliance it would
actually help the effort to get people to wear their masks and I think it would provide a
more efficient enforcement mechanism, hopefully one that started with education first by
the Meridian Police Department and, then, possibly result in an infraction and some type
of fine, as opposed to a full on misdemeanor, again, in support of their order in the hopes
I think of getting better compliance for the -- from the community. That was my thought.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess maybe a question either for you or Council President or Mr. Nary.
Council Member Strader at least touched on -- on a sooner rather than later approach to
this. What options or mechanics do we have to move this forward as a future meeting
topic, but at least having the possibility of not waiting until next Tuesday to discuss this.
Simison: Mr. Nary, how -- can Council call a special meeting if they would like to?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Cavener, so you do have the
ability to call a special meeting. I believe it requires 24 hours notice. Or it's 48. 1 don't
have the ordinances -- the statute in front of me. There is a time period that's required
before you can hear it. So, it would be closer to the end of the week. You can -- let me
break it down a little bit because I -- I'm afraid I potentially may have misled Council
Member Strader on this topic to some degree. State law allows the Central District Health
to order, under the health order requirements, allows them to order what they have
ordered tonight. It is a misdemeanor under state code. The Mayor currently has
independent authority to order that same thing as you have seen over in Boise what
Mayor McLean has ordered that prior to Central District Health. It also was a
misdemeanor. Under the state code the cities are allowed to establish their own
infractions, like parking tickets and dog violations off leash, such as that. So, we have
the ability to create an infraction, but we can't make the state law the infraction, we would
have to make a city order to be an infraction. So, it would require the Mayor to issue a
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city order that, then, could be -- could be created as an infraction offense that could be a
citable offense. So, it would require an order by the Mayor and, then, an ordinance by
the City Council that a violation of that order would be an infraction. To pass an ordinance
you are required to have three readings, which can be collapsed into one hearing if you
wish. So, you are allowed to do that. It then has to be published. We published in the
Meridian Press, which is published on Fridays. So, we have to give them notice ahead
of time -- at the minimum they require 48 hours notice to even be able to publish it in any
form. Normally it's a ten day period for it to publish in their usual legal notices section and
we have -- we have published it in other sections of that paper on occasion when
necessary. So, minimum of -- and I apologize that I can't recall. I believe it's 48 hours for
a regular meeting. It's only 24 if it's an emergency executive session. So, you would
have a couple days before you could have a meeting. You would have discussion. Again,
if you wanted public input it's a little tight time frame in which to do that and, then, you
would have to publish -- and, again, it wouldn't be posted -- the earliest we could possibly
publish it at this juncture would be next Friday, which is the 24th.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, if I may.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Council, I'm just going to make -- if you look across our
country a lot of folks have differing opinions on -- on a mask mandate and that may exist
amongst our Council, but I think one thing we probably are all united on is that a -- a
misdemeanor charge, thousand dollar fine, potential six months in jail, while even unlikely
is not the right approach to handle this type of an order. Furthermore, I think at least
giving our citizens the opportunity to provide public testimony and their opinion on this to
us is something that -- I wish the Health District would have done, but recognize they
didn't have the ability to do that. So, I'm supportive of a special meeting about this. If we
can take the lightest hand of government when it comes to this particular approach, that
does encourage education, I do believe the vast majority of our citizens want to do the
right thing and for those that either are unaware or are not complying, I don't think that a
potential jail sentence is -- is the right way to educate the public. So, I'm supportive of
that. I think it's the right approach and I would be supportive of us meeting in a special
meeting setting sooner rather than later to formalize it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, so Mr. Johnson was quick on the research.
So, a special meeting can be held with at least 24 hours notice, unless an emergency
exists. So, Council would have to determine if it was less than 24 hours if there was an
emergency. If I recall in the state code -- because I think we looked at this before -- the
emergencies are very very narrowly defined and I don't know if this would qualify without
looking at -- at a different section of the code, but I would suggest using at least 24 hours
notice just to be cautious.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks. Mr. Nary, just for clarification. So, it is -- it is 7:28 p.m. right now. Does
that mean that if we wanted to meet at 7:30 tomorrow we would have to move in the next
90 seconds for -- is there flexibility in terms of if we wanted to meet -- again, I'm not -- I
don't know where Council wants to go on this, but if we wanted to meet tomorrow at 6:00
has -- has that opportunity already passed?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Johnson's put up the particular provision of the code and, again,
it says an emergency is injury or damage to persons or property, immediate financial loss
or the likelihood of such injury, damage or loss when the notice requirements would make
such notice impractical or increase the likelihood and severity of injury, damage or loss.
That's -- that's the basis of an emergency to be less than 24 hours. So, it's your decision,
Council. If you think the necessity to meet in less than 24 hours fits that category, if it's
the specific language in the code.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: If I understood Mr. Nary correctly, even if we have the meeting tomorrow
evening we still wouldn't be able to get an ordinance published this Friday; is that right?
Nary: It was my experience. Mr. Johnson would know better than I. He's the one that
handles that relations with -- it would be a pretty tight turnaround to have an ordinance to
you by tomorrow-- but we could. And for you to, then, approve it tomorrow on Wednesday
night and get them to publish something on Friday and I don't know if their timing would
allow that.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, Mr. Nary is correct. Generally -- we
generally send notices tomorrow for the following Friday with Meridian Press in order to
get in their legal section. We have at times under the gun had to publish in the Idaho
Statesman and whether or not that would be appropriate is, you know, really -- as a legal
opinion I wouldn't speak to that. But it would be definitely pushing. I don't know that they
would be able to get that published by Friday, even if we gave it to them tomorrow evening.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I don't mean to interrupt. What I hear is a lot of I think mechanical
solutions or mechanical challenges that we can work through. I think 24 hours is
sufficient. So, I would move that we schedule a special meeting for tomorrow at 7:30 p.m.
to discuss the city's response to Central District Health's mask mandate and to discuss a
potential ordinance around that.
Strader: Second.
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Borton: I don't think we can --
Strader: If I can second. I don't know.
Simison: Yeah. Are we allowed to take motions at this point in time, Mr. Nary?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council --
Simison: I have tried to be very -- give a lot of latitude for something -- under something
I don't think we should be talking about, but --
Nary: So, this is a future meeting topic.
Simison: Correct. This is about --
Nary: This is not action items.
Simison: Right.
Nary: But you can calla special meeting. It doesn't say in the code that it can't be done
in the meeting or done outside of the meeting. At this juncture I would put it later than
7:30, because it's 7.31 on my watch and on the city's clock here, but you can call a special
meeting without it being a motion. I would agree with you, Mr. Mayor --
Cavener: Okay.
Nary: -- this is probably not the forum to do it. But if the direction or the desire of the
Council is to have a special meeting, ultimately the decision on holding a meeting is yours.
Simison: Correct.
Nary: Yeah.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: To talk about this as a future meeting topic, in that order that was up for a little
while that was just signed by Central District Health director, it talks about in item nine
that the city may enact more stringent health orders than those set out in this order,
referring to the order. Is that you have to wear a mask to bed? Is that more stringent? Is
-- is the fine itself part of the order? It's in state code, so can we only go more stringent
or we can go lesser for the fine or misdemeanor in their case?
Nary: So, lots of unproven ground here. So, in my opinion -- again, I think you are exactly
right, though. The -- on the first step. The city can always be more restrictive. The city
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can also pass the same directive as well. So, that's -- independently the Mayor has that
authority. So, you can be more restrictive or the same if you wish. What we would be
creating is an ordinance that says if you violate the Mayor's order it's an infraction. So,
you are not -- you are really not even addressing the state -- the Health District's order
any longer, all you would be enforcing is the Mayor's order if he were to order that, so --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, it sounds to me like the first -- if a special meeting were to be held the first
thing we need to discuss is whether the Mayor -- the Mayor would need to share with us
whether he would be comfortable issuing that. Otherwise there is no point in Council
hearing an ordinance; correct?
Nary: Well, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Perreault, not
necessarily. I mean, again, the Mayor doesn't have to make that decision now. The first
step is basically the Council is asking would the Mayor consider scheduling a special
meeting, whether it's tomorrow night at 7:45 or Thursday at 6:00. The decision to hold --
the way the state code is drafted, the decision to hold the meeting is the Mayor's. The
decision on the topics of the meeting is initially the Mayor, but the Council has the authority
by a majority to also change or set the agenda of the meeting. So, the first step really is
whether the Mayor is going to issue the order or not. It really is whether the Mayor is
willing to call a special meeting at all.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I wanted to find out from Deputy Chief Basterrechea if -- if -- and we didn't hear
the whole meeting, we just heard a snippet of it. Some of the laws -- like the cellphone
law the state passed this year, they gave an -- for enforcement there was a period of
warnings and not bring the hammer down right away. Is there -- was there anything done
in this situation that you are aware of or does law enforcement -- does Meridian Police
Department have that ability to give warnings early on in the process until people
understand that this is required to wear a mask?
Basterrechea: Councilman Hoaglun, Members of the Council, the answer to that is yes.
I don't know of any city that has issued a misdemeanor citation for any of these violations
that they have already implemented. So, yes, we can do that. I can tell you that as a
department we would certainly -- if you want to enforce this strictly, we would prefer an
infraction, as opposed to a misdemeanor citation. One, the courts are already backed up
because of this whole COVID-19 mess and this is just going to clog those up even more
so. And the other thing you have to ask yourself is how willing are you as the Council to
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take that heat as well. We have already dealt with some COVID-19 things as an agency
and -- and we were inundated with the -- the hate a-mails and -- and Facebook posts and
we are used to that. I don't know that you all are quite used to that, but it would be coming.
We would certainly rather, if we are going to be very strict on enforcing this, have the
opportunity to write citations for infractions, rather than misdemeanors. Our goal is to
educate from the very beginning. It doesn't matter -- even when we implemented our
cellphone ordinance long before the state ordinance, we took a period of time -- almost
-- I believe almost two months to educate the public before our -- we started writing
citations for that. So, education is always the very first goal. Enforcement is our last goal
as an agency. We want to go education, prevention, and, then, enforcement as a last
step.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I think Deputy Chief Basterrechea nailed it on the head. I think first and foremost
the role of our Police Department going forward -- and in regard to this -- this order by
Central District Health is to educate period. Period. We -- I can't guarantee, you know,
citations or misdemeanor whatever, but I highly doubt that our Police Department is
maybe out and about writing tickets, you know, in doing what the deputy chief just
mentioned in regard to misdemeanor citation it's just not going to happen. I'm just going
to be honest. I will say it. It's not going to happen.
Simison: Thank you.
Bernt: We can have this conversation -- I personally wouldn't support a special meeting
to discuss this, because it's going to be very difficult to enforce something that's
unenforceable, so that's my thought.
Simison: Council, I have tried to give a lot of latitude, but I would like to bring this to a
close. If there is more conversation about this it should be done under a noticed agenda
topic from that perspective. So, is there anything else under future meeting topics for
consideration? If not, do I have motion?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I move to adjourn.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I guess before we -- we vote, are we scheduling a special meeting? Is that
happening? Is that not? What --
Simison: I allowed the conversation. I will have the conversation with the Council
President of whether or not that should be scheduled or not.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: Any further discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying aye.
Those opposed nay. The ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:39 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
7 / 20 /2020
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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