2020-07-07 Regular Meridian City Council July 7, 2020.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:01 p.m., Tuesday, July
7, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Brad Hoaglun
and Liz Strader.
Members Absent: Jessica Perreault.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Adrienne Weatherly, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Alan
Tiefenbach, Clint Dolsby, Tracy Basterrechea, Joe Bongiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Liz Strader X Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, I would call this meeting to order. For the record. It is July 7th, 2020,
at 6:01 p.m. We will begin this meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
Simison: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Adoption of Agenda
Simison: Item No. 3 is adoption of the agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay.
The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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Item 4: Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Item No. 4, future meeting topics public forum. Madam Clerk.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we have two people signed in. The first of which is Koby Jargstorf
speaking in support of proposed mask mandate and concerns regarding COVID-19 in
Meridian.
Simison: Koby, if you are here, if you could state your name and address for the record
and you have three minutes. Or maybe Chris --
Jargstorf: I'm actually very impressed that you said my name correctly. Thank you. My
address is 1307 East Tuttle Street. 83646.
Simison: Thank you. Go ahead, Koby. You are recognized for three minutes.
Jargstorf: Right. Okay. I was a little leery that I was going to have to come up very
extensively in defense of wearing masks, but I can see from the fact that most of you are
wearing masks that you are very aware of the benefits. I can also tell by the fact that you
are wearing masks you must be aware that masks serve to protect other people more so
than ourselves and so I would very very strongly recommend that some sort of a mandate
issued by the City Council to mandate mask wearing in Ada -- or, excuse me, not Ada
county -- in the City of Meridian. Mayor Simison, I know that you have suggested that a
mask mandate may be on the horizon and you made a public statement over the Fourth
of July weekend in favor or wearing masks, but this is just another voice strongly strongly
in supportive of wearing masks. We know very well now that cases of COVID are rising
due to community spread in the county and we also know very well that masks are one
of our greatest, cheapest tools in order to do that. I would say to any fellow resident of
Meridian who claims that wearing a mask is in some regard an infringement on their civil
liberties, I would say that your refusal to wear a mask and potential subsequent death of
my grandmother has a much greater infringement on my own civil liberties and my right
to the pursuit of happiness. So, I would strongly propose that the City Council adopt some
sort of a measure or issue some sort of a mandate requiring the wearing masks in
Meridian. Cities of Ketchum and Boise and McCall have already issued these mandates.
That is very much precedent in the state of Idaho and I am very worried that I should not
continue to have to worry about my grandma dying every time she goes to the grocery
store, because we are not required to wear a mask. That's the extent of my testimony.
Thank you.
Simison: Thank you very much, Koby. Appreciate your comment. Just for the record, so
the public is aware, the Ada County Board of Health met and just made a motion to not
institute a mask order for Ada county at this time. They have authorized the Director of
Central District Health Russ Duke to draft one in case one needs to be considered at a
future meeting time, but at this time they have made a decision to not mandate masks in
Ada county. That is a board made up of health professionals with input from our local
hospitals that was part of that conversation.
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, second we have Cheryl Trinidad speaking regarding code
enforcement on private property.
Simison: Cheryl, if you could state your name and address for the record.
Trinidad: My name is Cheryl Trinidad. My address is 1423 Kingswood Avenue in
Meridian. I believe it's one of the first subdivisions built in Meridian back in the early
1970s. It has small two car and one car garages. The reason I'm here is code
enforcement continued discrimination. Under Meridian Unified Development Code,
Section 11-1-8D, quote, in the enforcement of this title it shall be deemed to apply equally
to each citizen and each property in similar circumstances and shall not be enforced to
discriminate between one individual and/or another individual or group as compared to
all others. That's Ordinance 05-1170, dated 8/30/2005. Effective 9/15/ 2005. We have
had six complaints at my address in the last year. Three of them had to do with my son's
visiting with their vehicles. Three minutes. I don't have time to go into that. And one is
our camper trailer that we had for ten years. I passed out pictures. We were told we had
to put behind the six foot fence. We could not have it in the gravel on the side of our
driveway, which you also see a picture of that gravel, not a weed in it. And if you see our
house we keep our yard immaculate. And so at that time -- I'm losing time. At that time
my husband came to code enforcement and talked to the head person and we asked if
we could have an extension. That was in January. We were going to try and get it in the
backyard, even though we didn't have room, but with the snow and everything we didn't
want to ruin the grass in front. We were told we could not have an extension, even though
there were trailers everywhere in the neighborhood. And, then, they cited us for not
having house numbers on the house. And in June we start parking our truck on the gravel
next to the driveway, because it gives us a little bit more room to bring the car in and out
of the garage and it's keeping it out of the street, which I think is dangerous to have it
parked there. We got another ticket. And we drove around and saw things that we saw
last summer. Things haven't changed. We talked to the supervisor and I went up line
talking, first of all, to code enforcement and who was in charge there and up and that's
why I'm here now. By the way of the trailer, we ended up selling it for a loss, because we
couldn't satisfactorily store it.
Simison: If you could wrap up. Cheryl, if you could wrap up, please.
Trinidad: Pardon?
Simison: If you could wrap up, please. Your three minutes is up. Just wrap up.
Trinidad: Okay. I have got pictures. We drove around this morning. We came to at least
142 violations and my proposed solution to 11-3-413 is to strike having to have the gravel
base surfaced cement or asphalt. That would make everybody in Meridian clean up their
act, because there is hundreds of them all over Meridian.
Simison: Thank you very much.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: We are not allowed to comment, because you haven't noticed this, but I just
want to thank you for your testimony tonight and sharing your experience. I'm sorry you
felt that you have been unfairly targeted. I hope that's not the case. I believe our code
enforcement wouldn't do something like that. But I think you continue to bring something
to the Council's attention that we need to review and I appreciate that.
Trinidad: Well, like I said, we just found 142 violations in a five block area this morning.
Item 5: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Gem Innovation School (H-2020-0043) by
Paul Bierlein, Bouma USA, Located at 5390 N. McDermott Rd.
1 . Request: Annexation of 8.00 acres of land with the R-15
zoning district.
Simison: Thank you. Council, Item 5-A is a public hearing for Gem Innovation School,
H-2020-0043. I will turn this over to -- I will open the public hearing and turn this over to
Alan for staff comments.
Tiefenbach: Greetings, Council. I'm Alan Tiefenbach. I thought I would introduce myself
quickly to you. I'm the newest associate planner with the City of Meridian. I have been
here for about three months. I came here from Colorado where I was a planner for 18
years in four different municipalities and prior to that I served six years in the United States
military amphibious assault team. So, glad to be here in Meridian. Okay. So, this is a --
so, this is an annexation and zoning for approximately eight acres of land with the R-15
zoning district to develop a 40 -- about 42,000 square foot one story college preparatory
school. The estimate of -- for children is approximately 600. This proposed annexation
area it's contiguous to city annexed property. It's within the area of the city impact
boundary. The future land use map designation of this property is medium density
residential. The applicant is requesting R-15 zoning because schools are a permitted use
in the zone district and this would result in a more expeditious review. Because adequate
schools are so strongly emphasized in the comp plan, staff finds that this proposed
annexation to be generally consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. There are several
large subdivisions that have been approved in this area over the last few years. The Oaks
and the -- North and South and that's about a thousand lots total. Many of the lots in this
subdivision are presently building out. The proposed school and the adjacent
neighborhoods are generally developing along the same timelines. The school is
proposed to be integrated into the surrounding neighborhoods via an internal road at the
south. So, there is a -- north is up here. So, this is McDermott here and McMillan is down
here. So, this will be integrated into the adjacent neighborhoods through what's called
Gem Way, which is located here. There is also going to be several pathways, so they will
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help with pedestrian circulation into this. One of these pathways is down here and one
on the Creason Lateral. This is on the south. There will be another connection, which is
shown here. This was originally shown as a stub street. We have talked to ACHD about
this and this is now going to be a pedestrian connection. You can see that here. Staff
did have concerns with the amount of paving that they were originally proposing for the
parking area. Staff did believe that there was a more efficient design that could be
employed, which would result in less paving and more landscaping. We discussed that
with the applicant. That was one of the concerns with the Planning Commission. Since
that time the applicant has revised their plans. So, this is the most recent plan here where
there is significantly less paving and significantly less trees that will have to be removed.
There have also been some discussions about Gem Street to the north. On the original
drawings Gem Street, which you can see here, this was all the way up against the
property lines. Staff had concerns with this directly abutting residential. What happened
was the applicant originally believed that there was a landscape tract that was going to
be here. As it ends up with the adjacent subdivision to the north there is not an additional
tract. So, with staff's recommendation and that the Planning Commission supported, they
pulled Gem Street back. So, now there is this space here and you would be able to see
that on your most recent landscape plan. So, this buffer here we recommend it. There
is a -- there is a few things I want to clarify that aren't quite correct from the staff report.
I originally noted that there was a 40 foot buffer along McDermott. It's actually 35 feet
wide. Also I noted that sidewalks were six feet, whereas they are actually five feet, and
the third one was at this southern pathway. I mentioned that would be 14, but it's actually
ten. This went to the Planning Commission on May 28th. The Planning Commission
unanimously -- oops, I don't know what just happened there. There we are. So, it went
to the Planning Commission on May 28th. The Planning Commission unanimously
recommended approval for this. There was a couple of conditions that staff -- or, sorry,
that the Planning Commission added. The first one was that there was an original
condition that staff had in regard to require -- requiring tiling of the Creason Lateral. As it
ends up that's already been done, so that is being stricken by the Planning Commission.
Staff is fine with that. With the applicant's request there was also a suggestion to change
the language that talked about tree mitigation. So, they have just massaged it a little bit
better. So, instead of saying that they shall follow the tree -- the tree mitigation
preservation standards, that they will work with the city arborist. Again, staff is fine with
that. There were two issues that needed to be added. These two issues were added by
Public Works later. They are both talking about reimbursement fees that needed to be
added for the lift stations. We have passed this on to the applicant and as far as I know
the applicant is okay with that and with that I will entertain any questions and staff again
recommends approval, as does the Planning Commission. Thank you for letting me make
this presentation.
Simison: Thank you, Alan. Council, any questions at this time? Okay. I do not know if
the --who is presenting on behalf of the applicant, but we will turn this over to the applicant
for 15 minutes.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, he is joining us via Zoom. Paul. Paul, can you hear us? Mr.
Mayor, it looks like we lost him. So, give me just a moment, please.
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Simison: We have Bill and Paul with their hands raised.
Weatherly: I'm going to move him over to a panelist. Paul, you should have the ability to
unmute yourself and talk now.
Bierlein: This is Paul Bierlein. Can you hear me?
Simison: Paul, we can, but if you could speak up just a little bit.
Bierlein: Okay. Paul Bierlein with Bouma USA. I'm from Grand Rapids, Michigan. 3033
Orchard Vista Drive. Can you guys hear me okay?
Simison: Yes.
Bierlein: Okay. I want to start by thanking Mr. Tiefenbach. He has done an excellent job
in presenting this to the City Council and we really don't have anything more to add.
Thank you for your support, Mr. Tiefenbach, and I would open up to City Council for any
questions that you might have for me, but we have nothing to add. We agree with
everything that -- you know, all the conditions that are -- that we are being subject to.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you very
much. We will see if there is anybody signed up to testify on this application.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, there is not.
Simison: Okay. There is no one signed up to testify, but this is a public hearing. Is there
anybody in the audience or online who would like to testify on this project? If you are
online if you can raise your hand and we can move you into testify. Or if you are here
step up to the mic. I am seeing neither at either location. I will ask the applicant if they
would like to close with any remarks.
Bierlein: Thank you again, City Council and Mr. Tiefenbach, and nothing more on my
end.
Simison: Okay. Thank you very much. Council, I will turn this over to you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I will just say, you know, how nice it is to see the addition of a possible new
school in Meridian. You know, there -- clearly there is a need and it appears that they are
trying to meet that need and I appreciate that -- that we are seeing what's in front of us,
especially in a growing part of the city that clearly really needs one. So, it's well received
from my perspective.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Unless anyone else has any other comments, I move that we close the public
hearing for Gem Innovation School, H-2020-0043.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay.
The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I echo Council Member Strader's comments and after having a chance to
review the staff report, hearing from staff this evening and the applicant, I move that we
approve the annexation for Gem Innovation School, H-2020-0043 as presented.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the application. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, Clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Public Hearing for Villas at Twelve Oaks East (H-2020-0014) by
Jim Jewett, Located at 115 S. Linder Rd.
1 . Request: Annexation of 6.63 acres of land with a TN-R
zoning district; and,
2. Request: Modification to the Existing Development
Agreement Inst. #2016-095715) to include the subject
property and proposed development plan in the agreement
and removal of the provision requiring an 8-foot tall concrete
fence to be constructed.
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Simison: Thank you very much, Alan. Appreciate it. And the applicant. Item 5-B is a
public hearing for Villas at Twelve Oaks East. It's H-2020-0014. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments and turn this over to Sonya.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next item before you is a
request for a development agreement modification and annexation and zoning. This site
consists of 6.63 acres of land. It's zoned R-1 in Ada county and is located at 115 South
Linder Road on the west side of Linder just south of West Franklin Road. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is commercial. A modification to
the existing development agreement for the multi-family development to the west is
requested to incorporate this property as a subsequent phase of development in the
agreement, rather than require a new separate agreement for this later phase. Because
a buffer to this property, which was formerly residential, is no longer needed, the applicant
requests removal of the development agreement provision, requiring an eight foot tall
concrete fence or wall to be constructed along the subject property's west boundary. With
the proposed development it is no longer necessary as the project is proposed to be
integrated as one development with shared common areas and amenities. Annexation
of 6.63 acres of land with a TN-R zoning district for the development of eight multi-family
structures containing a total of 64 apartment units, at a gross density of 13.94 units per
acre, consistent with the commercial future land use designation. Multi-family residential
developments are a principal permitted use in the TN-R district. There is an existing home
on the property that is proposed to be retained and used as an additional rental or
manager's unit. The site plan depicts access via the extension of a driveway from the
west boundary of the site and via South Linder Road. A pedestrian connection is required
to be provided to the north to the commercial development for interconnectivity via an
existing access easement. This property is planned to develop as a subsequent phase
of the multi-family project currently under development on the adjacent property to the
west as I mentioned and will share common open space and site amenities. The overall
project exceeds the minimum qualified open space and site amenities required by the
UDC. A ten foot wide multi-use pathway is required along the north side of the Ten Mile
Creek from the east to the west boundary of the annexation area and within the street
buffer along Linder Road in accord with the pathways master plan. A 25 foot wide
landscape street buffer is required along Linder Road. Conceptual building elevations
were submitted as shown that are the same as those being constructed in the Villas at
Twelve Oaks project in the earlier phase to the west. The design of all structures in this
development are required to comply with the design standards in the architectural
standards manual. The Commission recommended approval of the subject annexation
and zoning request. Josh Beach, Sawtooth Land Surveying, the applicant's
representative, testified in favor. Chad Herron commented. And written testimony was
received from Josh Beach. Key issues of discussion were as follows: The applicant was
in agreement with the staff report, except for Condition B-1-2, which requires sewer to
connect to the north in accord with the master plan, rather than to the west as proposed.
The Public Works Department reevaluated the applicant's proposed sanitary sewer
routing, as well as previous e-mail correspondence with the applicant on the topic of
routing and found that the current proposal is acceptable. Therefore, staff recommends
the following language to replace that currently in Condition B-1-2. The applicant shall
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be responsible to determine whether adequate capacity exists in the receiving sewer
system, including two lift stations, to accept the additional flow from this development. If
upgrades are necessary, the applicant shall be responsible for all costs associated with
said upgrades. And next concern pertaining to traffic in regard to the amount of accesses
via Linder Road in this area, combined with not enough access and interconnectivity in
the adjacent development to the south, Whitestone Estates, with only one way in and one
way out. Key issues of discussion by the Commission. They were in favor of the
proposed two story, rather than three story structures, as they are more compatible with
adjacent residential and commercial structures. The inclusion of this site in the adjacent
development and common open space and site amenities proposed for the overall
development. Parking in excess of UDC standards and provision of a pedestrian
connection to the north. The Commission made the following change to the staff
recommendation. They modified condition B-1-2 in Section 9 as requested by the
applicant with the language recommended by staff that I previously covered. There are
no outstanding issues for Council tonight and there has been no written testimony
received since the Commission hearing. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Sonya, that proposed change, B-1-2, the applicant shall be responsible to
determine whether adequate capacity exists, I'm struggling with that. I guess to me
shouldn't the Public Works Department determine that and not the applicant? And
shouldn't we have some basis for determining what that is?
Allen: Mr. Mayor. One would think. It's not my condition. It's Public Works' condition.
They are the ones that proposed the language, so I assume that they have a route to
accomplish that that meets their satisfaction.
Cavener: Perhaps the applicant maybe can speak to that, but that's -- just to frame the
conversation.
Simison: We have Mr. Dolsby on the line.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: Perhaps he could weigh in on this topic for us.
Dolsby: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, the reason we
had the applicant come up with the total extent of their development, the anticipated flow
of development, we had given them the information on those two lift stations, they would
determine whether they think they were going to impact the capacity or over -- or
overwhelm the capacity of the stations, but any analysis they conduct would be thoroughly
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reviewed by Public Works prior to acceptance and that's kind of what the condition was
is they would propose their plan, we would review it and concur with it before we move
forward.
Simison: They do the work and we verify it.
Dolsby: Correct.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Doesn't it seem appropriate to just add to that condition, then, so it's super clear
that it should be approved by Public Works to their satisfaction or something? I kind of
follow what Councilman Cavener is saying.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Sonya, is there a rendering that shows how this project will look with the existing
house on the property? From remembering correctly -- and I'm -- I haven't been by that
-- on that road for a while, but it seems like it's sort of skinny and that -- that that house
takes up a lot of space, if I'm remembering correctly. I just would like to know what that
looks like.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bernt, Council, the site plan before you shows the footprint
of the existing home. However, I have no renderings or photos --
Bernt: Okay.
Allen: -- of the existing home.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for staff at this time? Okay. Do we have the
applicant with us in the room or online today? It looks like he is in the room today. Mr.
Jewett, if you could state your name and address for the record and you will be recognized
for 15 minutes.
Jewett: Do either one of these work? Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Jim Jewett.
776 East Riverside Drive, Suite 204, Eagle, Idaho. This is a -- in addition to our existing
Twelve Oaks project. This was contemplated some time back, it just took some time to
get to this point. The existing phase is 98 percent complete and we are starting
occupancy there. We are sharing all the common areas we have within the original
project with a pool, clubhouse, tot area and a half-court basketball court. When we started
this role over a year ago we did consult with Public Works, submitted our plan to them of
flowing to the existing sewer station, and we got their tentative approval on that. But any
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final design they have to approve. So, we are comfortable with any language you put in
there, realizing that Public Works has to eventually approve whatever we propose. On
some of the slides we did show three story buildings. We are not proposing any three
story buildings in this phase. They are all the two story buildings. We only had two three
story buildings on the far west end of the existing Twelve Oaks. Some of the buildings to
the left would be the only buildings you would see in this phase. There was a question
about the existing house. I didn't quite get the question, so if Sonya could redirect the
question to me maybe I can help answer it. With that I would stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you. Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you, Jim. I just have a -- I just would like to know what that house is going
to look like that's going to be existing. It's -- it's not a small house if I'm remembering
correctly and if I'm remembering correctly this is just barely south of that commercial
corner where there is a C-store, a gas station,Arctic Circle, I believe. Am I thinking about
the same corner?
Jewett: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Commissioners -- or Council. Sorry. Yes, it's just directly south
of the Arctic Circle.
Bernt: Okay.
Jewett: It's not an overly large house. The garage sits underneath it and, then, it sits
above. There is a bunch of outbuildings that make it seem much larger, but they are all
being torn down. So, the only thing that will remain will be the existing home, which is not
very large. It sits approximately 30 feet off of Linder Road. So, our buffer bare -- almost
reaches the front of the house. So, I hope that answers your questions. But it's showing
the footprint --
Bernt: Right.
Jewett: -- and it fits in with all the parking and everything that we have proposed.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: The reason why you are wanting to leave that there so you can rent it out to
someone? Is it going to be a rental property or --
Jewett: At some -- it's more of a -- it's more of my pet peeve. I just don't like to tear things
down that have some value to them that -- some potential use in the future. We certainly
can't-- it's -- it's-- because of the way it's tucked in we can't build anymore buildings there
new and it would serve well as either a rental unit and/or a manager's unit, because with
the addition of these 64 units it will be up 172, 1 believe, or 174, 1 can't remember, and
that warrants an onsite manager and that possibly we could give a little better facilities
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than one of our apartments. I mean it can be tore down as well. I just -- I just don't like
to see things go to the dump. It's just kind of a personal thing.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Jewett, appreciate you being here tonight. I was hoping you might provide
Council some comments related to the concern that was voiced at P&Z about the traffic
that this project could potentially generate. We have got a lot of multi-family in and around
this area. I don't get really excited about a lot of multi-family that doesn't have close
freeway access and this doesn't have that. So, if you can help me understand why this
project makes sense there, being this higher density, and maybe speak to some of the
concerns that you heard from Planning and Zoning.
Jewett: Yes, Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, most of the traffic-related questions were
specifically to Linder Road and I indicated to them that Linder Road access -- access --
access -- sorry -- would be a right-in, right-out only. We have a full access on Franklin
Road and we have a cross-access easement into the commercial area of Hark's Corner,
which is on the corner, and it has a full access as well. And I developed that when I did
the commercial phase of this project a couple years ago. So, it actually has three access
points. And the one is restricted to a right-in, right-out and that would be Linder Road.
The approximate to the freeway -- Ten Mile -- the new Ten Mile off ramp is about a mile
and three-quarters to the east -- the west. Sorry. We are in excess of maybe a mile and
three-quarters to two miles to the west. I think that has considerably good access to the
freeway being two exits within two miles either direction and one with the eventual
widening of Linder Road and a new overpass over Linder Road there will be another
access point going south across the freeway to be able to access the same two interstate
off ramps. So, from a transportation point I really would -- Franklin is -- is four lanes
already. It's not overtaxed. It's easy to get out for me at least to get out onto Franklin
Road. We haven't started to put residents in here yet. So, we can see how that traffic
flows, but the roads all manage the traffic flow based on ACHD's staff report and the --
the restriction on Linder is primarily because of its proximity to this commercial exit that's
just on our north boundary of that east entrance.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Jewett, so what I'm hearing, though, is the only access off of Linder is a
right-in, right-out; correct?
Jewett: That is correct.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Jewett, help me understand one of your residents wants to come to City
Hall, I understand they would have to take a right out on Linder Road and, then, flip a
U-ey somewhere along Linder.
Jewett: No. They would simply go through the existing Twelve Oaks phase one and exit
onto Franklin Road as a right-hand turn.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
Jewett: All of our facilities, mailboxes, will all be located -- even for this project -- within
phase one next to the pool and clubhouse. So, we see --the way we designed this phase,
our main road coming into the crossroad has no access to the apartments off of it. They
go onto another parking lot. So, it is more of a collector type road, anticipating the future
growth that we have proposed here.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Jim, back on the questions with regards to Condition B-1-2 and the proposed
language, the Council has brought up some -- some concerns that we might want to flush
out a little more. So, if this proposed language were to proceed what ultimately happens
if -- it sounds like maybe you would be agreeable to the analysis being done by you
provided to the city and if the city determines in its review and ultimate decision that there
is not adequate capacity, the draft says the costs are borne by you of any upgrades. But
what happens? Let's say that -- what if there is a disagreement between you and the
city? And, second, what if-- if you or whoever owns this project just doesn't --just doesn't
want to pay for any upgrades?
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, like I stated in my testimony earlier, when we
started this phase of the project, we went to the city and said how would you like us to
service this, going to the west or under the master plan going to the north? And they
asked us to submit our flows, which we did, and the engineering department reviewed it
and got back to us saying that there was adequate flow within the system to handle the
additional flow that we would propose. That was a tentative based on our plan a year and
a half ago. Our plan hasn't changed. So, when they came back with the language at
P&Z adding the responsibility for us to do the analysis, the analysis for us would be simply
to provide to them our flows and they would, then, address their own lift station of whether
or not there is capacity within it, which they already have commented a year and a half
ago saying there is. But with our final plan they will do a final analysis and if there is any
potential upgrades, that that's something we have to review. The option outside of that is
simply go back to the master plan and go to the north and I just don't think that that's
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really what the Public Works, nor the city engineering departments wants at this point in
time. I think we all recognize that those lift stations that are currently in Whitestone will
go away with the development of the Brighton property to our direct west. I think that's
the eventual goal anyway is the lift station to go away. So, I'm comfortable with the
language. I'm comfortable that -- that -- that we have already had enough dialogue with
Public Works and we are comfortable with what we proposed and that it will all work out.
So, I'm okay with the language as written. I recognize that we -- we have to get our final
approval from Public Works when we submit a final engineering plan.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: But that -- that begs the question of the city's comfort, even with the -- with the
proposed language and the question of what occurs if-- if there is -- if you disagree --you
used the words we would review the city's decision, but my -- it sounded like the city's --
the way it would be applied is the city makes a determination that upgrades are necessary
and -- and that's it and those upgrades either get paid for by the developer or everything
comes to a grinding halt. If it's not that I guess I just don't want that condition to be lose
with good intentions. It should be drafted, assuming there is a problem, so it has a
certainly. I think other Council Members have expressed some concern that there is some
certainty in not only who has ultimate -- the ultimate decision, but also whatever the
consequence might be if there is a disagreement.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, I don't know if I can fully answer your question,
although I understand it. I guess it's not like any other condition that will be placed upon
this or any project in town, it's just a condition that -- a condition that has to be met before
the project can move forward. Like I have stated, I felt very confident that the capacity
exists, because we have a-mails from the city engineer stating that it does --
Borton: Sure.
Jewett: -- and so I guess we could -- if we want to clean up that language we could simply
ask Public Works to further their study to determine exactly if there is any requirements
to be made of us beyond the vagueness of if any and, then, put that into some conditions
of approval. I'm completely okay with that. I can understand and appreciate not having
a loose end out there, I just can only reiterate that I'm comfortable with what the language
states, because I believe we have done the research already and, then, we are at a point
where I believe that -- that the capacity does exist.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton, did you have a follow up?
Borton: Not at this time. Thanks.
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Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I would like the applicant's feedback if -- if the condition actually said the
applicant shall view, you know, the appropriate analysis requested by the Public Works
Department and the Public Works Department shall approve their sewer upgrades and
associated --whatever you call that -- in their absolute discretion -- can you live with that?
Because I really feel like that's kind of what -- what we have -- what we need is it should
be in their discretion to approve whatever you are proposing.
Simison: Can we have Clint come back up and, again, if you can give your best viewpoint
on the situation to help bring clarity for all on what you think needs to exist.
Dolsby: Sure. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, what we would need is -- as Mr. Jewett
had referenced, if you would just submit a final flow -- we have got the language in there
in case -- because there can be changes in the development before we reach this stage,
because it was a year, year and half ago when we took an initial analysis of it and worked
with Mr. Jewett and his engineer and came up with a plan that looked like it could service
to the existing Whitestone lift station, which, then, pumps to The Landing lift station, both
of which will be abandoned once Brighton's development gets there. But he did submit a
flow, we analyzed it, and we double-checked to make sure it would work. So, what we
would request is he would submit an updated plan with an updated flow, we would check
the calculations that went into the flow, also check the lift station with the flow monitoring
data that we have and check that -- to see if there is any upgrades required at that lift
station and any upgrades that would be required as a result of the flow for his
development or that may be required -- not would. Would be borne by the developer. So,
we would get a flow from him and we would review the current lift station design and flows
and see if there is upgrades required, which the preliminary analysis we did a year and a
half ago, as Mr. Jewett referenced, indicated that there wouldn't be upgrades required.
But we wanted the discretion to complete a secondary analysis now to that -- we have
final flows, so that we -- if there are upgrades that are required they are borne by the
developer and that's why the conditions are --
Simison: Mr. Jewett, do you concur with that description as outlined by staff?
Jewett: Completely. Yes.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: A question for Clint. Just walk us through the process -- what if you run that
course and the city says an upgrade is necessary and it comprises one, two and three.
So, developer, you have to do one, two and three. At one stage in the process does that
occur and what happens until those upgrades occur? I mean is it a stop, no permits, and
everything is on hold until there is compliance?
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Dolsby: Mr. Mayor and Council Member Borton, that would be my recommendation.
Borton: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: This gets in the weeds a little bit, but that's a question that may -- and for Mr.
Nary perhaps as well, but just trying to understand in that unlikely or unfortunate
circumstance what actually happens and so it's clear for the developer, too, whether it's
a recommendation that that occurs it is a -- a certainty that that is a consequence. It's not
a discretionary call, but it is a contractual commitment that that's the consequence. Just
trying to understand, however a condition like this gets drafted, that it's crystal clear if
there is some need for us to protect a concern than to ensure that the city has certainty
in its -- in its remedy to make sure the concern gets addressed. That was some of the
reasoning for my question. So, I don't know if that's a question for you, Clint, or for Mr.
Nary.
Nary: Well, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I mean -- I guess from what I have been
listening to -- and I understand the condition -- I mean it is tied to occupancy, so I wasn't
sure if Mr. Borton was concerned that even Mr. Jewett or a future owner of the property
just wouldn't build it, so, then, it would sort of stifle the project, but it's certainly tied to
occupancy and the city has to give final approval of the -- of the plans. I don't foresee
any issue in the city's control of the -- of the -- the sewer system upgrade. It's the issue
of whether it stalls out and Mr. Jewett's maybe not the owner, someone else is, and they
don't want to make that level of investment and it sort of stalls the project, I think that
that's all the risk that exists in any project, but I don't foresee any other issue that once
it's tied to occupancy you are going to have to build it if you want to put people in the
building, so --
Borton: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant? Thank you, Mr. Jewett. This
is a public hearing. Do we have anyone signed up to testify on this item?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we did not.
Simison: Okay. Is there anybody who -- in the audience who would like to testify on this
item or anybody online? If you are online and you would like to testify, please, indicate
so by raising your hand in the zoom app. I see nobody who is -- would like to testify in
either location, so would the applicant like any final comments?
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Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, if it alleviates some additional concern about
the lift station, I would propose that we just add an additional change to the DA having a
condition in there that any occupancy to this phase requires Public Works to sign off on
any proposed or needed upgrades to the lift station.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any further questions for the applicant on that topic or
anything else?
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, along with what's been stated by my fellow Council Members in regard to the
flows and -- my only other concern would be the -- the existing home and I know I spoke
about it before, but I just wanted to be clear. According to our FLUM it says one of the
uses of this proposed development would be multi-family residential may be allowed in
some cases, but should be careful to promote a high quality of life with thoughtful site
design, connectivity and amenities. And so I struggled with the fact that you want to build
this nice, big, beautiful complex -- and I'm familiar with it. I drive passed it every day and
it's -- it's nice. It's pretty. And you want to leave this ugly house in the front of it and for
what? So, it just -- for it to be a rental? And in my opinion I just don't know how that fits
with -- with the overall view of what the intended use would be for that area. My -- I don't
know if I'm going to -- this is -- this is so important to me that I'm willing to, I guess, deny
the project. I'm not saying that. But like I just think that, you know, there is so many other
creative and cool things that you could do with that, that would be beneficial to those who
would be living at this complex, other than having a big, ugly house sitting in front of it.
Simison: Councilman Bernt, is it the aesthetics of it? If it were to match the rest of the
property or is it the fact that it exists in and of itself?
Bernt: Maybe both. I don't know. I just -- I just think that maybe mostly the aesthetics, I
guess, but I think that there might -- I think there is a higher and better use for that
property, you know, that--you know, I just don't understand why you are spending millions
of dollars on this beautiful project and this really nice project and you are leaving an
existing home that's right smack dab in the front of it. I just don't -- help me understand
that.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, I have no objections to having the house
removed. Again, it was kind of my preference, but I certainly don't want to make it that
big of an issue. So, if the Council wants to motion to have it stricken and move -- and
removed as part of the project I'm okay with that.
Bernt: And I appreciate that. And, hey, I'm one to six and so there is -- there is other
opinions that--and we will for sure discuss it, but would you be opposed to putting another
amenity there that -- that the residents would, you know, enjoy? And I don't know what
that would look like, but just --
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Jewett: I mean that would be something we would have to explore. I mean it is a limited
area. We did design around it. We could probably create some additional open space.
Possibly some additional parking. There was some discussion of that. So, if it's the desire
of this Council that I remove the building, we would find an alternative use for that, whether
it be a balance of additional open space and/or additional parking.
Bernt: Again, I'm one to six, so we will for sure discuss it and I may -- I may be the lone
wolf, so you might be okay. We will see.
Jewett: I have had other people voice the same concerns. So, you are not alone. Just
maybe on this Council. I don't know, but --
Bernt: Right.
Jewett: -- I'm okay.
Bernt: Thanks, Jim.
Simison: Council, any other comments or questions?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I think Councilman Bernt hit on something and that might be one of maybe
several ways to address that concern. And I know it came up in P&Z, as well as -- this is
designated commercial and -- and at least the way the comp plan reads it tries to provide
some direction that attempts to really limit to somewhat special circumstances the
application of multi-friendly residential and I know that -- there was concern expressed
getting rid of commercial and putting multi-family here -- so, when you look at the
benchmark, the comp plan tries to provide a high quality blank possible site design,
connectivity and amenities, I struggle with this one as well in light of -- to clear the bar to
warrant eliminating its planned commercial use and we just did the comp plan and this
area didn't change for whatever reason. So, I just wanted to put that out there while you
are there, Jim, and see if you had a unique comment on -- on if this rises to that higher
standard. Kind of like the exception for what would otherwise not be allowed in a
commercial -- or at least not intended to be put into a commercial planned area.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Borton, I will try to answer the question the best that I
understood it. So, the -- under the comp plan and this is designated as commercial and
we are proposing this residential. We actually considered putting right on the frontage
there commercial, but the problem is tying it in with the existing commercial. We have
one cross-access access with Hark's Corner and the staff is recommending that be a
pedestrian access only. No vehicle access. So, trying to do a commercial project in there
with having to access solely onto Linder Road is problematic in itself and is not wise. The
nature of this ground and how it flows into our existing project flows much better than it
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would be into the Hark's Corner projects, which leads to our design versus the
commercial. So, there is an option that we can still put some sort of limited commercial
on that where the house is now. Small office building. I don't think retail would be suitable,
simply because of the limited access on Linder Road. I think the comp plan does -- the
comp plan clearly allows for the TN-R zoning within the commercial designation, which is
what we are asking for, which allows this use. I'm sure I'm not answering all of your
questions, Councilman Borton, but the way we evaluated this was what was existing on
the ground with Hark's Corner and how the connectivity with it just didn't make a lot of
sense for us and that's why commercial wasn't looked at very hard on this piece because
of the lack of interconnectivity. So, I hope I answered your questions. If not, I guess you
could redirect and I will try to answer again.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I think you did. I just wanted to give you a chance to -- I wanted to let you know
the concern at least and give you a chance to speak to it, so I appreciate that. Thanks,
Jim.
Jewett: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any other questions or comments or do I have a motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Always get things going. I move that we close the public hearing for the Villas
at Twelve Oaks, H-2020-0014.
Bernt: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay?
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Council, I think we have touched on three or four different things on this
application, a couple of which I'm not super comfortable editing or modifying on the fly.
Councilman Bernt, I think you hit the nail in the head about that house. To me that was
an ideal location. I looked at this for an amenity. It sounds like the applicant is open to
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moving that house, but I -- I would feel much more comfortable being supportive of this
project when I know what that is. Frankly, I would like to see commercial there. I have
got some real concerns overall just with the -- with the access of this high density
residential. I shared my concerns about putting multi-family. I think two miles away from
freeway access is not ideal to me. Again, I may be alone on that one. I like the term lone
wolf. That's good, Council Member Bernt. I like that term. And, then, ultimately -- I mean
we have talked around this condition B-1-2. There has been a couple of suggestions on
what that looks like. I get an easy wordsmithing some of that stuff on the fly and would
feel much more comfortable to allow staff to work with the applicant to shore that condition
up, something that we can all be comfortable with. So, I'm not supportive of approving
this tonight. I would like to continue it for a later point in time to get some of these other
issues addressed. I'm not sure how all the rest of you feel, but I think that's the right
direction to head.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I couldn't agree more with -- with Councilman Cavener. I think it would be
important to give Mr. Jewett some direction as well with -- with the continuance, if that's
what the rest of Council is wanting.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I'm tracking along the same lines. I think it would be wise to see the applicant
come back with a better flushed out -- maybe design plan or something to -- to modify
what's --what's going on with the house, either proposing an amenity or commercial. We
should probably discuss that if we have a common view. I think that would help the
applicant significantly in how to move forward. I do have a -- just a general concern,
which is, you know, we are so reliant on residential in general as a city. We are really
trying to develop our commercial and seems like the more we sort of float, if that's the
right terminology, these designations I get concerned about that, the more we do that.
You know, that there is an underlying concern. I do think it -- you know, the -- the
apartments themselves seem fairly thought out in terms of design, but I -- yeah, I just --
I'm kind of looking for more. I personally would like to see commercial, if it's viable. The
applicant's saying it's really not. I have to listen to that as well, but -- but at least I would
love to see some type of an amenity for the residents there and I will kind of defer to the
rest of Council on what we would rather see in that -- in that spot.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
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Bernt: I think Councilman Borton and Council Woman Strader bring up some great points
about the commercial aspect of this project. If it's the desire of this Council to move in
that direction I would -- with all due respect to Mr. Jewett, I would hate for him to put forth
more resources toward redesign of a residential project when this Council would prefer
the existing designation to stay commercial. So, my opinion if it's the desire of this Council
to keep it commercial, I think we owe it to Mr. Jewett to let him know that now, instead of
having him spend a lot of time and resources trying to figure out what a residential
component would be.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I can only speak for myself. I don't know where everyone else's heads are at. I
am leaning that direction. Personally I would prefer it to be commercial. I just -- I'm
concerned about how much we are floating residential. I don't think it makes a ton of
sense for the city as a whole to be having that as a regular practice. But I'm realistic and
if that's not where the rest of the Council is at I would rather see a modification to it, but
that's my preference.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I tend to agree with Councilman Cavener and Council Woman Strader on that
point as well and I think -- I think Councilman Bernt's advice is sound, but let's make sure
the applicant is aware if that's one of the most fundamental concerns and I don't want to
waste anyone's time and so that's my fundamental concerns as well. Commercial.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Sat here listening to my colleagues bring up some good points. You
know, need to take a look at that commercial. You know, there might be some access
issues is the only thing I see, but I think it's worth taking a look at and making sure
everything is spelled out before we move forward on this and -- and see what -- see how
this property can -- can develop to its highest and best use here.
Simison: So, Council, your public hearing is closed. I don't know if you want to reopen
the public hearing and hear from the applicant about the Council's desire for commercial
or continuance or if you want to make your own decision based on what you have heard
to this point so far.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
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Cavener: I'm always a fan of rolling to think collectively of allowing the public to testify,
whether it's the applicant or members of the public. I have no issues if we want to reopen
the public hearing, if the applicant would want to share any comments before we close
and, essentially, make a motion. So, Mr. Mayor, I move that we reopen the public hearing
for the Villas at Twelve Oaks, H-2020-0014.
Borton: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing. Is there a discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed nay. The
ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: Mr. Jewett, would you like to come up and provide some comments on what
you have heard in the discussion?
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, so if I heard everything correctly, there is a
sentiment wanting this to remain commercial. Would that be in its entirety or would there
be some middle ground of making part of it commercial and part of it residential or
apartments?
Borton: That's -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: That's a tough one I think to answer. It's a fair question, but a tough one to
answer. It's you know it when you see it. So, it depends. Which is not a very helpful
answer. I think it's accurate, but not helpful. I wouldn't even know if there is a way to
blend them both. You would be able to know that fast. But understanding that there is
this pretty strong consensus that commercial needs to be involved in this property, if that
means there is some small portion that remains residential and it's still a viable project,
that it makes sense. I don't know if anyone would prohibit you, because you would
probably be able to articulate here is why this makes sense to incorporate this small part
of residential. So, I don't know if I could give you a better answer than it depends, but it
depends.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, let me redirect you to our original Twelve Oaks
phase, which I developed five commercial lots within that phase. You can -- you will
represent them in the drawing here to the west. The top left corner, northwest corner, is
one lot and to the northeast corner there is four lots. So, our overall project already has
a considerable amount of commercial that we have added to the existing Hark's Corner
and, then, one that will have interconnectivity to Brighton's commercial project to our
direct west. If we added another commercial lot over off of Linder Road where the existing
home sits, it-- I think that that's a considerable amount of commercial we have added into
the overall project. I will point out that of our five commercial lots that we done in the
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existing phase, none of them are built on yet. There is a struggling market in the
commercial world right now, specifically from COVID. You know, we are hoping that does
rebound at some point in time, but we don't know that for sure. So, from a financial
component, which I realize it's not a total bearing on what you -- how you guys make your
decision, a complete commercial project, which is simply it financially would not be
feasible from our point of view, because I feel like we would just be adding more
development into an already saturated situation, but I wouldn't be objectionable to adding
the commercial along Linder Road. That's an easy change. We simply remove the house
and add a commercial pad, not unlike what we have in our four -- our northwest corner.
And from a preference point of view I would rather rent to a business than rent to an
individual. We find it less -- less difficult. But simply that's not what the market bears for
us today. Apartments are in demand. I know there is a lot of them that have been
developed in the city and I feel like there is a lot more coming as our population grows.
We are in an area that's conducive to walking to the commercial that exists within Hark's
Corner, which is beneficial to them adding our additional residential units. We don't -- we
are not taxing any of the services because we are on existing well traveled, well
maintained and well built roads. So, I'm agreeable to making an amenity change. I'm
agreeable to adding some commercial in the front and even -- potentially even moving it
farther back. The one thing that we would have to address with staff is we only have one
cross-access with Hark's Corner and it exists in that northerly west corridor there and the
staff right now is recommending that to be pedestrian only. A cross-access easement is
essential when it comes to commercial and the lack of that would be detrimental from the
physical point in time to construct this. So, I'm not objectionable to -- to some sort of
continuance to facilitate some changes. Obviously, I would ask for guidance of how you
would want that to change. I still believe that we put a lot of time and thought into this
and we believe that because of our existing project the interconnectivity to it, the amenities
we provided within the initial project and the commercial that we provided in the initial
project, we have adequately addressed the comp plan's desire to have commercial in this
area. But I'm here to -- to listen to your guidance and try to address it as best I can. I
hope that answered the question.
Nary: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, one wrinkle -- and, again, I don't know
how long a continuance is being anticipated, but what was noticed for this project is a DA
amendment, annexation, TN-R zoning, which does allow commercial, but no one's
noticed commercial as a part of this project. So, it's never been discussed publicly of a
commercial. So, amenities to the existing residential would be one thing. Adding a
commercial component is another. So, if you are going to continue you are going to have
to renotice it differently, because it has never been proposed to be a commercial project
with commercial users. I don't know if that's going to require subdivision of the property,
which isn't proposed either. Likely would. So, that's another component that would have
to be noticed. So, just as you -- if you are going to move to continue, it may take a little
longer than two weeks or three weeks, because now with notification, drawing of a
preliminary plat now, finding the type of user configuration that would fit there may take a
little longer. That's a little bit more significant amendment than what was originally
proposed.
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Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, it might just take us all the way back to the
beginning, because we would have to have the neighborhood meeting process to identify
a plat. A plat would start us back -- I mean that in itself would start us back to the
beginning.
Simison: So, I guess, Mr. Nary, from a process standpoint what--what is the best process
way to move forward? Have the applicant withdraw this application? Have Council act
on this application?
Nary: Well, Mr. Mayor, maybe Sonya can weigh in as well. It seems to be -- I mean
based upon that at the minimum we would have to remand it back to Planning and Zoning.
The only issue is is the neighborhood meeting component normally is done prior to
Planning and Zoning. So, I'm not sure if this is a complete do over if we are going to now
add a commercial component to this that didn't previously exist because of that. So, I
don't know if Sonya has an opinion on that. Otherwise, normally a remand would be
sufficient, but I don't know that that's adequate from the preliminary plat point.
Allen: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Council, yes, Mr. Nary is correct. A neighborhood meeting is
required typically before submittal of the application. However, this would impact the
neighbors to the south and east. So, I think it's a good idea to reach out to them and,
yes, I feel it should be remanded back to the Commission if we switch tracks in the -- in
the middle of a stream. It's going to require new legal descriptions. A subdivision plat.
It's -- it's a new project. And just for clarification, I heard something mentioned earlier
about floating residential to this property. Residential multi-family and the TN-R zoning is
actually a desired use in the commercial designation. So, this -- this isn't a request for a
float, it is an allowed use. Of course that use is subject to Council approval.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, if -- if the desire of the Council is to go a
different direction, a denial still leaves the option to come back, which is essentially what
I'm going to do anyway. But at least-- I don't think we would be in favor of all commercial,
especially in today's atmosphere. So, I would respectfully request that you take as much
as you can of my plan, with some direction of how you want it to be changed and consider
that and if it's something outside the realm I think that I will have to accept your poison I
guess. But I think that our project is well thought out and I think it does blend well with
our existing project. We have provided commercial. So, I would just respectfully request
that you -- you give me the direction how this project could be approved, instead of that
significant amount of change going back to all commercial.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: It's just -- well, first off, Jim, thank you for listening and thank you for being open
to coming up with the best possible solution. I appreciate that. Looking at this --just at
this property that's up on the screen right now, the frontage along Linder is pretty skinny.
It's not -- there is not a lot of frontage there, which would be the prime portion for a
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commercial component. Because of that I think that where I stand would probably make
that -- that front northeast corner commercial and, then, I would -- I would be okay with
leaving the rest of it residential. Ultimately, I never had any problem with the development
itself. I understand my -- my colleagues' concerns. My only concern was that -- that front
portion that we discussed. So, that -- that would be my take if that helps you out a little
bit, Jim. We will see what everyone else says.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I think I have already testified that that would be
an okay solution for me. I believe that can be done within -- within the DA and the DA
mod. We can make some modifications to that front corner be commercial in nature and
it can be part of our overall project and not be part of a plat. If we did want to eventually
plat it off for separate ownership we could do that at a later date. So, I believe conditions
of approval and modifications to the DA could address that being commercial without
having to go back, because the commercial use is -- I guess I'm speaking out of turn so
much for the city attorney I guess, because commercial was not part of our original
application to our neighbors and I do have to be respectful to them and there is still a
dilemma. I do appreciate and I'm agreeable to those scenarios if somebody just lays out
the process for me to get there. If that's the wish of entire Council, then, that's the direction
I will go.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: That might be the easiest thing we are talking about is the process. We have got
-- we have got some experienced folks that can talk to you about the process here.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Jim, would it be acceptable at this juncture,
since you are not clear what commercial would go there, how that would look, how to
configure that with the street and flow and all of that, that simply be designated as open
space with a potential for future commercial, which would, then, require you to come back
for a development agreement amendment.
Jewett: Completely.
Nary: And, then, that way you could -- if the rest of the project is acceptable, basically
what you would be designating is that's going to be open space with the ability for Mr.
Jewett to request a modification to the DA at a future time if he decides commercial would
be there. Now, if commercial isn't viable from his perspective, then, it's going to be open
space. If it is viable, then, he can come back and do that without starting over at the
beginning. The risk to the city or the risk to Council if you're concerned is that it ends up
being open space and doesn't end up being any commercial at all on that location. But it
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would be, then, an amenity to that -- to the property, but I think he said, you know, it would
probably be some additional parking and open space. So, that's an option to not have to
start over completely and it would still require you to come back with whatever the plan is
at that point in time that a commercial is a viable option for that location. So, that's an
option for you to consider.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, I would just open it up to my fellow Council Members to get their opinion on
that. I -- my personal opinion would be this should -- you know, if we are going to change
this do it right. But, you know, I would be interested to see what everyone else is thinking.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I just think it's too -- just too far afield. I appreciate the efforts, but I'm just not
supportive of it. I don't think it gets to where we need to be.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Jim, I know you have been doing this for a long time, but it comes back to I
think what Council Member Borton said, it's that it depends factor. You know, you have
got six people up here with different perspectives. You know, I'm -- I'm one that I think
there would need to be a little bit more of a commercial component than just that northeast
corner. So, I -- I really applaud the city attorney. I always try and figure out a way that
we can get to the yes and would hate to have you go back through this process again,
but personally for me -- and, again, this is what was Council Member Bernt's perspective
and his opinion. Mine's a little bit different. I would want to see a -- probably a smaller
multi-family footprint and a larger commercial footprint.
Simison: Just to help the applicant out, Councilman Cavener, there is eight buildings.
Cavener: Oh, sure. Four buildings instead of eight? Is that your --
Cavener: And, Mr. Mayor, I think it really comes back to what's -- what's presented before
us and I kind of touched earlier on tonight. I hate doing -- kind of building stuff on -- on --
on the fly. I think you are putting my back against the wall. I think you probably lose two
buildings. Your two-- I guess the easterly buildings. I think that preserves a little bit larger
commercial application along Linder. And this is me just kind of looking to the future and
while Linder Road isn't connected now, it will be one day, and you can see this area is
looking a lot like what I see, you know, at like Linder and Chinden. You know, you have
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got this kind of robust commercial component there with different types of retail and
restaurants. I know we hear this all the time about ice cream. We have got ice cream
already an Arctic Circle. There is other applications that we can put there -- could go
there. So, that's more where I'm looking at is what this piece of property could be 20
years from now.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I think I share the view. It's hard to pick a number of buildings. I'm really
struggling with kind of like picking and choosing that. I think for me, too, would be like the
bare minimum. I would much rather see three or even half the project, knowing what's
going to happen along Linder is going to be pretty significant in the future. Nothing in life
is guaranteed. I totally appreciate the economic aspect of this for you as a developer.
Unfortunately, that's kind of an equity risk and we are trying to make decisions for the long
term of the city. So, for me, you know, two of the -- two of the buildings would -- would be
the minimum. That would at least feel like a significant -- or more significant portion is
commercial. I don't -- I can't commit to that until I see a plan, you know, and see that it
makes sense. So, I mean that's kind of a given. I wish I had more precise feedback for
you. I'm sure we will do whatever process we can to try to strike the right balance and
make sure the public has adequate, you know, notice and so forth. Hopefully everyone
can hear me. I apologize.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, I want to point out, again, some of the constructive barriers we have.
The only cross-access easement we have currently with Hark's Corner is the one to the
north and west. There is no other cross-access easement with any of Hark's Corner from
there to Linder Road. So, developing a commercial project clearly on one access off of
Linder Road with potential cross-access with the apartments would be it. There would be
no additional cross-access with Hark's Corner and I don't think I have ever seen a project
where you can't interconnect your commercial projects. That is a barrier. There is an
eight foot concrete wall currently that exists between this property and Hark's Corner. So,
if I did develop the front half, it -- it's -- staff would have to change their opinion on whether
or not that access is full access or just pedestrian and, then, we would somehow have to
figure out how to get the commercial to one access point and, then, somehow talk Hark's
Corner into letting us tear down at eight foot concrete wall that exists there now. And
Hark's Corner now is owned by I think five or six different property owners. It's no longer
one. So, I'm dealing with six Council people, six different property owners and I'm the
lone wolf. So, I'm sitting here saying I don't know where I would go with that and even if
I -- even if I lose two buildings and go to commercial I think that the city attorney has made
it very clear that -- that would have to go back and start from the beginning. I would have
to notice the neighbors again. That is -- that is a significant change from what I proposed
to them.
Simison: Council, one thing that -- if we do go back and have to redo this through the --
all the process I would suggest to Council to waive the applicant's fees for those costs,
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so they don't have to bear that to make that sort of modification to go back. That's
something for you to consider.
Jewett: Mr. Mayor, may I suggest the following? Allow me a continuance to discuss it
with Hark's Corner to see if I can gain another cross-access. I think it's imperative that
we have that in that east end. So, let me talk to -- specifically Jackson's to see if I can
get that. And, then, if I can obtain that let me discuss internally with our staff how we feel
about moving two buildings and configure some buildings there, come back to you with
that concept and if it's something that's acceptable we can, then, be remanded back. If I
may suggest that. But give me some chance to figure out a few of these questions.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Jim, I think that sounds really reasonable. It gives us a chance to kind of see
what you are bringing forth before -- you don't get too far ahead of your skis. I'm good
with that. How long -- would you like to pursue a month?
Jewett: So, what is your month from now hearing date? Make sure it's not a conflict for
me being out of town.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, if we have to notice it, then, we are out until August 4th and, frankly,
we are out to August 4th anyway. Excuse me. Starting at August 4th and beyond is pretty
open.
Simison: So August 11th?
Jewett: Excuse me?
Simison: August 11th?
Jewett: I'm actually gone. But I'm here the 4th. But I'm gone on the 11 th.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I think August 4th is National Night Out or --
Simison: No, it is not.
Cavener: Oh.
Simison: It's been cancelled until October this year.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: If it will even be held then.
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Simison: If our deputy chief knows the actual date Council might benefit from hearing
that. Or I can look. But we can follow up.
Basterrechea: Unfortunately I don't.
Jewett: So, would August 4th work? Is there a motion that we want to continue to that
point in time?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I guess, Mr. Nary, we are just going to continue the public hearing, leave it
open --
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Cavener, right. We talked about
commercial, but we are not noticing commercial, we are noticing a conversation. So,
think just a continuance is adequate.
Cavener: Okay. Mr. Mayor, I move that we continue this public hearing for H-2020-0014
to August 4th.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to continue the public hearing until August 4th.
Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye.
Opposed nay. The ayes have it. And we will continue this to August 4th.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Simison: Council, before we go into our last item we are going to go ahead and take a
recess until 7:45.
(Recess: 7:34 p.m. to 7:46 p.m.)
Simison: Council, even though I don't see Mr. Borton yet we are going to go ahead and
call us back in from recess. Up next is Item 6-E, a public hearing continued from June
9th, 2020, for Cedarbrook Subdivision, H-2020-0012. I will turn this over to Sonya for
staff comments.
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council -- just a moment here. Okay. The next
application before you is a request for annexation and zoning and a preliminary plat. This
site consists of 118.58 acres of land. It's zoned RUT in Ada county and is located at 4185
South Linder Road. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation on the
property is medium density residential, which calls for three to eight dwelling units per
acre. Annexation of a total of 118.58 acres of land with R-2 zoning, which consists of 9.48
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acres of the site, R-4 zoning, which consists of 65.45 acres and R-8 zoning, which
consists of 43.66 acres, consistent with the medium density residential future land use
designation. A preliminary plat is proposed that has been revised since the original
submittal that's on the right there, consisting of 328 buildable lots for single family
residential detached homes, 39 common lots, and four other lots on 118.58 acres of land
is proposed. The minimum lot size proposed is 4,881 square feet, with an average lot
size of 9,874 square feet. The gross density is 2.77 units per acre, with a net density of
4.4 units per acre. The subdivision is proposed to develop in seven phases as shown on
the phasing plan. Access is proposed via one collector street and two emergency access
only driveways via South Linder Road. Two stub streets are proposed at the north and
one collector stub street is proposed at the southwest boundary of the site for future
extension. Unimproved right of way is proposed along the north boundary to the west at
the northwest corner of the site. That is in this green area right here as a -- for future
construction of a collector street if needed. Each phase of development is proposed to
have two accesses for emergency services. The access from the north via Victory Road
will be constructed with the first phase of development. The existing roadways in this
area are rural in nature. There are no roadway improvements planned in this area until
between 2031 and 2035 when Linder Road is planned to be widened to three lanes from
Amity to Victory Road and the Amity-Linder intersection is planned to be reconstructed.
Linder Road between Victory and Overland Road is planned to be widened to five lanes
and the Victory Road and Linder Road intersection is planned to be reconstructed
between 2021 and 2025. The proposed development falls within the interim southwest
sewer phasing plan as developed by the Meridian Public Works Department. As such it
will require the construction of a temporary sewer lift station, trunk line and pressurized
sewer force main at the expense of the developer. Qualified open space is proposed in
excess of the minimum ten percent required by the UDC. A total of 2.6 -- excuse me --
22.44 acres or 18.9 percent is proposed, consisting of a large central common area with
a pond, linear open space with pathways, common areas greater than 50 feet by 100 feet
in size. Parkways along streets and collector and arterial street buffers. Site amenities
are proposed in accord with UDC standards from the quality of life, recreation and
pedestrian or bicycle circulation system categories. A swimming pool and pool house, a
multi-use sports court, children's play equipment and a picnic area next to a large pond
containing benches, a covered shelter and picnic tables are proposed with the first phase
of development and a pocket park with play structures consisting of fake rocks and
boulders is proposed on the other large common area in the third phase. Pathways are
proposed throughout this site as shown on the pedestrian plan. Two ten foot wide multi-
use pathway connections are proposed from the sidewalk on Linder Road that merge into
the common -- central common area and continues as one to the north boundary along
the collector street. Internal pathways are proposed for interconnectivity and detached
sidewalks are proposed throughout the development adjacent to streets. The Calkins
Lateral crosses the northeast corner of this site. The applicant proposes to leave it open
and improve the area's linear open space with a pathway. Fencing is required to be
installed to deter access to the waterway unless the applicant can demonstrate to the
satisfaction of the director that the waterway serves as or will be improved as a water
amenity as defined in the UDC, in which case fencing may not be required. Fencing is
not proposed around the pond. If Council determines this presents a safety hazard a
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condition requiring such should be added. A detail of the pond was submitted shown on
the right there that depicts a safety bench, a shallow area before it drops off into a more
deep area of the pond for public safety. Sample photo elevations of the types of homes
planned to be constructed in this development were submitted as shown. Homes are a
mix of one and two story units of varying sizes for the variety of lot sizes proposed.
Building materials consist of a mix of finish materials with stone and brick veneer accents.
Revised elevations were submitted for the homes proposed on the 40 to 45 foot wide lots
as requested by staff and those are the ones shown on the right that include more design
elements and materials to provide a higher quality of design than those originally
proposed. The Commission did recommend approval of this project and I will go through
the summary of the Commission hearing now. Sabrina Durtschi, the applicant's
representative, testified in favor of the application, along with Deborah Nelson, legal
counsel representing the applicant. Annette Alonso, Julie Langlois, Paula Connelly and
Kenzie Ward testified in opposition. Written testimony was received from Julie Langlois,
Brian Connelly, Kenzie Ward and Paula Connelly. Key issues of public testimony are as
follows: Not enough transition in lot sizes to adjacent rural properties. Requests for one
half to one acre lot sizes as a transition and a landscape buffer and berm at the west
boundary. Protection of view sheds and rural lifestyle, right to farm, raise and process
their cattle. Concern pertaining to capacity of various schools with the proposed
development and all of the developments that have been approved in this area, but not
yet developed. Concern pertaining to traffic and inadequacy of existing infrastructure to
handle more development in this area with no plans to widen Linder Road until 2031 to
2035, which is currently a rural two lane roadway. Would like to see a greater setback
along Linder Road, so that when the road is expanded in the future there will be -- still be
enough green space and landscaping to keep their rural feel of the area and reduce
impacts on landscaping. Concern that it's not an efficient way to expand the city's
infrastructure with the project's location on the fringe of the city. Concern pertaining to
the timing of this development, balancing the growth with the state of the economy.
Supportive of the proposed detached homes, but opposed to townhomes and duplexes.
Based on discussions with the neighbors, the Reinhimers and the Robertsons, the
developer has agreed to provide a three to four foot tall berm with a wood style fence on
top of the berm centered on the shared property line along the northern portion of the
west boundary of the site adjacent to their properties, landscaped with trees at a spacing
of approximately 25 feet along their side of the fence that they would maintain. The
developer has also agreed to limit the height of homes to single story where they will be
in direct view shed out of the physical house on adjacent property. And, finally, the
developer also agreed to double the required rear building setback of 15 feet to provide
a minimum 30 foot rear setback along the west and south boundaries of the subdivision.
Key issues of discussion by the Commission as follows: The Commission asked the
applicant where the additional children's play equipment recommended by staff would be
located. The applicant responded it will be in a large common area by the swimming pool.
Commission asked the applicant if the pond would be empty in the winter after irrigation
season. The applicant responded, no, that it would have a permanent water level year
around. Commission was generally not supportive of staffs recommendation to provide
a variety of housing types, attached and townhomes within the development. Those have
since been removed based on the Commission's recommendation. The Commission
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discussed extending the R-2 zoning along the southern boundary of this site and, finally,
adequacy of the proposed transition in lot sizes and buffer to adjacent rural residential
properties. The Commission made the following changes to the staff recommendation.
They removed the requirement for a variety of housing types to be provided. The
Commission was not in favor of the attached and townhome product at the northeast
corner of the site proposed by the applicant in response to the staff recommendation
based on comp plan policies. They included a development agreement provision
requiring a berm and fence to be constructed on the shared property line adjacent to the
Reinhimers and Robertson property as committed by the developer. They included a
development agreement provision that limits the height of homes to single story where
they will be in the direct view shed out from the physical house on adjacent properties.
Staff recommended that the applicant address which specific lots will have single story
homes at the Council hearing. They did submit an exhibit I'm sure they will be showing
in their presentation on which lots those are. And they also submitted an exhibit that
depicts half acre lots in the R-2 zone, which reduced the lot count by five in this area.
They included a development agreement provision that requires a minimum 30 foot rear
setback for homes along the west and south boundaries of the subdivision. There are
only a couple of outstanding issues for Council. The Commission recommended Council
consider whether or not there should be some funding or a partnership toward future
intersection improvements at Amity and Linder Roads and a letter of testimony was
submitted by Laren Bailey, Devco, requesting Condition B.1.1 is modified to require the
construction of the sewer main line to Meridian Road with the first phase of development.
Because this was previously discussed with the applicant, but inadvertently not included
in the condition, staff is in support of this change requested and ask the Council include
that. Several letters of testimony have been submitted that are included in the public
record. Staff will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Sonya, thank you. If you could, please, pull up -- if we have our priority growth
areas map -- and just point out where this would fall on that. It doesn't have to be at this
exact moment, but that would help me to sort of contextualize exactly where this sits.
Hoaglun: And Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. While -- while pulling that up or -- I have the same question along the
same vein as Council Woman Strader. I was curious if that -- you know, this is on our
fringe and, you know, that's typically -- I think I read not a priority for extension of city
services. How -- I was curious -- I was trying to remember how far was the nearest
annexed property or development that -- that is near this proposal.
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Simison: I don't know if they are searching for a map, but I can tell you this is not in
southeast Meridian and is not in northwest Meridian. That's as far as I can tell you from
the growth priority map discussion.
Strader: Thank you. That's helpful. So -- and I understand. I didn't mean to put anybody
on the spot and we may not have that at our fingertips, but from -- I just wanted to check.
My impression was that that did not fall within that initial area that we had outlined in the
southeastern -- no. South -- yes. Anyway, you get what I'm saying.
Simison: I would classify this as southwest Meridian, not southeast Meridian.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: If you want to use Meridian Road as the dividing line.
Strader: That would be perfect. Thank you. That -- that helps.
Simison: Council, any other questions for staff at this time? Okay. If the applicant would
like to come forward.
Nelson: Good evening, Mayor, Members of the Council. Deborah Nelson. 601 West
Bannock in Boise. I'm here on behalf of the applicant Toll Southwest, LLC. Here with me
this evening are members of the Toll development team and also our traffic engineer
Sonya Daleiden with Kittelson is participating by Zoom and is available to answer your
questions as well. We are pleased to present to you this evening Cedarbrook Subdivision.
This presentation follows over a year of design and planning, meeting with interested
parties. The input we have received have helped to shape and change the development
that you are seeing this evening. We are proud to have a recommendation for approval
from your staff, from your Planning Commission, from the ACHD commission.
Commenting service providers have confirmed that this site and its residents can be
served with sewer, water, fire, police and schools. I would like to briefly introduce Toll
Brothers to you. Toll Brothers is an award winning Fortune 500 company that purchased
Coleman Homes in 2016. While they develop throughout the valley, they sited their
headquarters here -- right here in Meridian where they employ over 130 people. They
also hire local contractors, consultants and vendors to build their communities throughout
the valley. Toll's planning for this development began with your Comprehensive Plan. As
Sonya noted the property is designated as medium density residential. It's down here
located where the blue star is on the slide. This property has gone through two
Comprehensive Plan updates and remained medium density residential. A change that
did occur during the last Comprehensive Plan update was that the property to our west
petitioned for the city to change them to low density residential and that occurred. This
change certainly influenced our design and the transitional zoning that we proposed. The
city has planned a vibrant area near this site. To our north and northeast is the Ten Mile
area specific plan where the city calls for higher densities, employment and commercial
activities. To our west just beyond the current county platted lots is mixed use
neighborhood designation. To our east a similar activity node is at Meridian and Amity
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with a designation of mixed use community. Our property is conveniently located between
these activity centers and between the two key interchanges at Ten Mile and Meridian.
Our immediate adjacent properties are designated as a mix of low and medium density
residential. As has been planned by Meridian, this residential area will provide the
rooftops that are needed to support planned commercial and provide homes that are
close to these planned employment centers nearby. Consistent with this Comprehensive
Plan and based on discussions with city staff, we developed transitional zoning with the
three zones that Sonya outlined for you, R-2, R-4 and R-8. As an accommodation to
neighbors' request we have enlarged the lots within the R-2 zone. I will discuss that in
more detail. But I want to note that the zoning areas and the site layout remain the same.
We are not asking for any exceptions or variances to your zoning standards in any of
these three zones. The city has approved other nearby residential developments and this
will be responsive to your question, Council Member Hoaglun. Immediately across Linder
from this site the property has annexed, zoned, and approved development of residential
developments. These --these developments fall within the low and medium density areas
that we saw on your comp plan for that central area and the approved zones range from
R-4 to R-40, with densities ranging from 2.68 to over 14. Notably, none of these approved
developments included an R-2 zone, even within or adjacent to low density designated
areas on your Comprehensive Plan map. Our proposed zones transition nicely to these
developments to the east. Our proposed density of 2.7 falls on the low end of the
densities approved nearby and is below the three to eight range that the city had planned
for this property. But we believe -- and I believe staff confirmed that we found the right
balance to provide that good transition between the lower density to our west and the
increasingly higher density to our east. We appreciate staff's and the Planning and Zoning
Commission support of the proposed zoning --
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? We can't hear.
Simison: Okay. One second. And pause the time.
Nelson: Is it a matter of my speaking up? Does that make it better?
Hoaglun: That sounds great right there. Thank you.
Nelson: Okay. Is there anything you needed me to repeat or were you able to catch
some of that?
Hoaglun: I think you can continue.
Nelson: Okay. Thank you very much. The development team has had several meetings
with Public Works, with Fire, Police. All of these providers have confirmed they can readily
serve this project. We are literally down the street from the new fire station and will help
provide the needed property tax base to support its operations. The water and sewer
design is in accordance with city plans and approved by Public Works. We are agreeable
to the request from the neighboring developer of the property, who asked for us to develop
the sewer improvements in the first phase. ACHD has approved the plat and we agree
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with all of the conditions of approval. Turning to schools, Toll has also met with Joe
Jochum several times and he has indicated that he has no concerns with this
development. School age children in our neighborhood and throughout Meridian have
many choices for schools and I think Joe and others recognize that the long-term impacts
of COVID are yet to be understood. But surely there will be some additional students that
take advantage of online school options and West Ada has responded with an enhanced
and larger virtual school with its own principle. Regardless of those future long-term
changes that may occur, all West Ada schools that serve Cedarbook currently have
capacity. This reflects the near complete expansion of Mary MacPherson Elementary
School. Additionally, the West Ada School District as a whole has capacity. In 2019 and
projected for 2020 capacity is staying ahead of enrollment. The district also has new
capacity coming online that's already planned, funded and underway to accommodate
projected growth that will result in just over 3,100 new seats for students. Sonya spent a
lot of time going through the pathway trail system, so I will just highlight the total linear
footage. The regional pathway will have 4,600 linear feet. Other internal HOA pathways
that will be maintained by the homeowners association are 3,000 linear feet, for a total of
7,600 feet. This doesn't include any of the sidewalks that provide similar connectivity and
they are all detached. Cedarbrook has over 22 acres of open space at 18.9 percent. This
is almost double what is required. In response to comments received, we increased the
open space shown in this plan to include a new park area in the R-8 zone and added a
second playground amenity. Cedarbrook will meet and exceed the city -- city's amenity
requirements. I would like to show you some of those amenities. The pool and the
clubhouse. Another shot. The playground structure in the R-4 and another play area will
be next to the main amenity. A sport court with half basketball court. A large covered
picnic area with picnic tables and another shot of this area to show the adjacent pond.
Cedarbrook will offer a wide variety of housing opportunities from starter homes to larger
estate homes. These elevations are for homes in the -- shown in this slide are for homes
in the narrower lots on the northeast. These are detached product. All have two car
garages targeting the entry level buyer at 1 ,400 to 1 ,900 square feet. The Garden
Collection will be within the R-8 zone and will range from 1 ,200 to 2,500 square feet.
These homes will offer functional living space and design. The Woodman Collection will
be a majority of the R-4 zoning. This has an optional range from 1 ,580 to 2,890 square
feet. It specializes in open floor plans and quality craftsmanship. The Countryside
Collection includes estate homes and will be located in the R-2 zone. This collection
offers larger homes that range from 2,900 to 4,500 square feet. This collection embodies
elegance and luxury, with top of the line finishes. Toll has had extensive community
outreach with the surrounding and the adjacent neighbors. They held three neighborhood
meetings. They have also worked closely with our adjacent neighbors in the county, with
numerous individual and group meetings, including even in recent weeks to continue to
try to address their concerns. Many neighbors had concerns about their view shed. As
a result Toll hired a consultant to take pictures from each neighbor's backyard and, then,
produce renderings of how the development may look and, then, shared these renderings
with the neighbors to receive feedback and request for mitigation. The result of these
meetings is numerous concessions by the developer. We recognize we certainly cannot
please everyone, but some individuals have expressed their appreciation for these
concessions and they are significant. Some of the mitigation Toll agreed to is listed here
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and, then, I will walk through a few of these items. First, it's important to note that there
is existing topography here that creates -- that presents an elevation change and any
transition plan needs to take into account specific facts and circumstances. The
neighbors along our southwest corner sit 33 to 35 feet higher than our lots and homes.
As shown in these diagrams, you can see from one example where an existing home is
385 feet from the property line and another that's 288. Both sit on top of a ridge that
ensures our homes will not obstruct their views. In fact, all of the county homes in the
west and the southwest of our property are over two to four hundred feet from the property
line. As I mentioned, Toll prepared renderings from each property. This is a picture taken
by our photographer from southwest property along the rim. We were careful not to use
any photos provided by individual neighbors. As you can see the homes are down in the
valley. They do not obstruct any portion of the view of the distant hills. The closest
structure that you can see in the foreground is actually a neighbor's existing barn right in
the center. Toll has agreed to increase the setbacks, doubling the rear setback along the
entire R-2 perimeter from 15 feet to 30 feet. Toll has also agreed to install buffers.
Originally at the Planning and Zoning Commission -- this was along the western border
and that was incorporated into the conditions of approval. They are also agreeable to
extend this along the southwest border. They will provide a berm on the property line, a
wood style vinyl privacy fence and trees every 25 feet. This is a rendering shown from
one of the western properties, which is a flatter property and still you can see that these
installed buffers create great mitigation that's also enhanced by the fact that the house is
so far setback from the property line. Toll has also agreed to provide 60 percent single
story homes along the R-2 perimeter, lined up with a direct view shed of the neighboring
county homes. These single story lots are shown in red on the slide. This is a significant
concession, because the larger lots in the R-2 is where you want the larger premium
homes. Toll has also agreed after some careful consideration in numerous meetings with
the neighbors and listening to their requests, also taking into account what your
Comprehensive Plan says and what's feasible on this development to have a successful
community and they have agreed that they can increase the perimeter lots in the R-2
zone to a minimum half acre. To provide a minimum half acre means that some lots range
higher than this, up to two-thirds of an acre. This caused them to lose an additional five
premium lots and I say additional, because from the very first neighborhood meeting
where they began with 27, they are now down to 14 along this border. So, they have
made significant concessions in the lots in the R --
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, I apologize to interrupt, but I -- she's just disappeared. I can -- I can
-- I can barely hear some -- some mumbling.
Nelson: Is this better? I tipped the microphone up. Does that help?
Hoaglun: Yes. Thank you.
Nelson: I would ask is there anything I can repeat from this slide? Or prior slides?
Hoaglun: I think the slide you covered the details in writing it looks like.
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Nelson: Thank you very much. This slide shows a comparison of the recent change from
a third acre minimum along the perimeter to a half acre minimum along the perimeter and
it really illustrates the significant change of the number of lots that would front each of
these county properties and it's important to understand how significant that --that change
really is to only have a couple of lots that front your property when we are trying to
transition from a very large county subdivision into a city planned area for medium density
residential. Another concession that the developer has pursued here -- there was a
planned collector roadway along our western boundary. ACHD at our request, at city staff
support and ACHD staff support, did agree to remove that collector roadway and to
change their master street map. The neighbors to our west really did not want that road
in that location. The road itself probably would have provided significant barrier to not
require as much transition, but the neighbors did not want that road there and we helped
to relocate that. One of our neighbors Julie Langlois stated in a recent letter to the Council
that Century Farm by Brighton is an excellent example of a developer who made efforts
to retain the rural feel and history of Meridian. We couldn't agree more that Century Farm
is a really well done wonderful community. In fact, Toll acquired a piece of that master
plan and developed it under the name of Orchard Creek. But it's important to note what
they provide in this excellent example. If you compare our density and lot sizes and open
space you can see that Cedarbrook has lower density, larger lots and more open space.
Simison: Deborah, if you can wrap up, please.
Nelson: I can. Thank you, Mayor. I don't need to go through these conditions of approval,
because we did address them in our written communication and responsible to the staff
report. They simply incorporate the concessions that we have agreed to that I just walked
through as conditions of approval that we will be happy to accept and I would stand for
your questions. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you very much. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Sonya or if someone on staff could bring up the slides about the school capacity.
I will just start while we are pulling it up. I think what I'm struggling with -- I feel like I'm
hearing two different stories and I -- I don't want to burden staff with something that --that
can't be accomplished here, but I guess -- I'm trying to square this information on school
capacity with the public testimony that was provided in written form by Annette Alonso,
who also had a conversation with Joe Yochum regarding school capacity and following
her math it looked pretty clear that the schools in this area would be at least 200 kids over
capacity pro forma for this development and I'm just -- I'm struggling to figure out fact from
fiction. I was curious if the applicant could just comment further on your conversations
with the school district and I understand that we have the virtual schoolhouse, but I'm
assuming that the Coronavirus situation won't last forever. I'm hopeful that it won't. Could
you, please, comment further on your conversation specifically with the school district and
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how they will handle this additional influx of students. Especially in light of approved
developments.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Strader, the Toll development team met with Joe
Yochum at the school district on two different occasions, on February 28th and on June
29th and coordinated closely with their GIS analyst as well. They received information
from the GIS analyst Eric on numerous occasions, including in particular on May 19th
and in those discussions they did receive confirmation of the numbers that we have
presented and that the school district was comfortable with the addition of this
development. Obviously, what I have presented here is -- is current capacity. It also is
looking toward projected capacity for 2020. The school district does take into account
additional developments that are approved. As you know that's how they make some of
their projections for going forward, so that they understand what the student load is going
to be and based on the numbers that we have for the fall of '19 from actual numbers and
for projection of 2020, they did not have any concerns with this development. We did also
talk to them about-- I guess I don't have control over this. If you wouldn't mind advancing
to the next slide. Because I think this is also responsive to your question. Looking at the
district wide where the school district is taking into account all of the capacity, you have
to think about some of this new capacity that's coming online and so district wide, but they
also have -- they are keeping ahead of the capacity, ahead of enrollment from actual 2019
numbers and projected 2020 numbers and that's before any of this funded and
programmed capacity comes into play that would cover these projected growth patterns,
but perhaps are what is referred to in Ms. Alonso's testimony.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Deborah, if I --just on one point on this one. I mean I understand the Mountain
View High expansion number, but that's really just replacing portables. That's -- there are
-- they are not going to reduce or add more than what they currently have at that school.
They are just in some portables now and they will be in physical structures.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, that -- those are the numbers in addition to -- for capacity that came
from the school district.
Simison: I understand that. But just to put it in perspective, that's not -- they are not
adding that much more space at Mountain View High School. It actually just is going to
remove the portables that are currently there for that space that they are currently
occupying. It's a net zero essentially currently for the Mountain View expansion. Unless
they decide to keep the portables there, but that's not their intention. So, that would make
the 3,000 students --
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, if -- if the Council would like I do have some additional information
that's broader to the West Ada --Ada School District that I can provide an additional slide
if you would like. It's later in the presentation. I didn't have time to get to everything. But
if you want --
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Simison: I think Council Woman Strader has another question, so I will defer to her.
Nelson: Yeah.
Strader: Certainly, I would love to see the additional information in a minute. I mean I'm
trying -- trying to just follow the math; right? So, right now the school district is very close
to capacity based on 2019 actual numbers. If I give them the benefit of new school
capacity of 3,000 units and I know that approximately -- call it 2,000 kids graduate per
year, maybe I get to 5,000 or 6,000 in capacity. From what I understand from information
I have received as part of the budgeting process, we have 7,500 units that are approved
and entitled in the City of Meridian. So, I think the piece that's missing for me that I would
like us to just work on collectively is what have we approved that we think will be delivered,
so we can ourselves check as a city our own numbers on -- on -- with the school district's
help on expected capacity and really what we think will be delivered from our end on what
we have approved. I'm probably just boring everyone to death, because I keep bringing
this up and I apologize that I'm very stuck on it. So, yes, I would love to see your additional
slide.
Nelson: May I have control of it? Okay. It's not advancing for me. There it goes. Thank
you. Mr. Mayor, if I may respond to that. Council Member Strader, we have heard you
say that question before. We understand the -- your line of questioning. It is outside the
scope of our development. You know, we -- we presented to you the numbers that impact
Cedarbrook, but we are not deaf to your question and so we did ask the school district for
the current plotted lots. I believe this was as of this week. So, it's 13,840 plotted lots in
the West Ada School District as a whole and the way that the school district projects
growth in that, they multiply that number times point eight, I think as -- as you know, per
lot, to estimate the number of students. They expect that those students will be generated
from these various approved preliminary plats that may or may not come to fruition and
are phased in over a period of time. They assume that will come in over a ten year period
or approximately 1,100 new students per year. When you compare that to capacity, West
Ada has planned capacity to cover that approved group and we have added the suitable
numbers here, which is just at 26 students per year under that math, so it hardly impacts
it. But if you look down at the tables below at current growth and capacity, you can see
that the projected capacity stays ahead of the projected enrollment. The school district is
planning forward as they look at updated preliminary plat numbers. As I know you know,
the further the projection goes out it's not funded yet. That is part of the cycle. The newer
immediate construction, the ones I highlighted, you know, are funded, they are bonded,
they begin construction. The further out the projection goes they aren't yet funded, but
that's just the nature of it, that they can't all be done at once. The school district has said
very clearly in their capacity plan that they won't begin looking for a new school until they
have the capacity numbers that would fill a new school and so, you know, they -- but they
are, nonetheless, staying ahead of -- their projected capacity is ahead of projected
enrollment. So, I hope that helps. This is what we have been able to acquire from West
Ada.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: If the staff could, please, print me a copy of this slide, because I'm going to need
a few minutes myself just to look at the data. Just to clarify, does the school district have
a funding source only for the capacity expansion projects you showed on the previous
first slide or do they have funding for additional expansion? And the reason I'm asking is,
as we know, their supplemental levy recently failed. From what I understand they do not
have a funding source to build additional schools.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, my understanding is from the school district
that that list is a funded list that's under construction and does not include -- you know,
for example, Blue Valley Elementary that was postponed from the choice about the bond.
Simison: And, Deborah, I think you hit on it at least from a -- talk about schools. You
know, if you look at the numbers who showed about the capacity, it's approximately 2,400
in high school, you know, so it's a very disproportionate number of stuff and in south
Meridian elementary is the largest issue related to growth, specifically in the Hillsdale
area, but it extends throughout the entire area and the two that are on there are in north
Meridian from an elementary standpoint. So, it isn't always apples to apples, the
numbers. The numbers are what the numbers are. The reality is sometimes somewhere
between with what the numbers say for the different parts of the community.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, I completely understand and agree.
Strader: Mr. Mayor, just one more.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: And, then, I will move off of this, because I'm just beating it to death today. I'm
sorry, guys. I guess the last thing I would just say, hopefully -- hopefully everyone can
hear me. I just -- if the school district is listening, I highly urge you to provide this same
information and these same projections directly to city staff with our Planning Department
so we can have a real conversation about the growth in Meridian, because it is an endless
frustration for me that this information is provided to an applicant, but it's not being
provided directly to the city. Unless I'm wrong. But my understanding is that it hasn't
been and that, for me creates an untenable position where I have to choose between one
set of facts that was very good from our applicant and, then, facts that are being given by
the public without the actual source of the data providing the facts to us. Sorry. Thank
you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: That's a hard one to follow. Well said, Council Woman Strader. Ms. Nelson,
thanks for your presentation. Appreciate you being here tonight. I kind of want to dovetail
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a little bit off of Council Member Strader's questions. If I remember correctly from the staff
report, this is a seven phase project. I didn't hear you -- and maybe I missed it -- touch
on kind of the -- the calendaring of the plan for all seven phases, when one would begin
and when the second phase would begin, so on and so forth and if you, in your comments,
can articulate which proposed phases would touch on the various densities that are
outlined -- you have that great map that shows kind of the three densities of your project.
I think if you can highlight on that it would be very very helpful.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Cavener, let me see if I can -- I don't know that I
have at my fingertips every answer to your questions, so I may need to call upon others
to help, but at least here you can see the scale, the ordering, and also the development
timing and so land development would begin in early 2021. So, next year. Homebuilding
would begin summer 2021 . Occupancy of the very first phase would be in early 2022.
There are years that are attached to each phase, you can see in this exhibit as well, that
are estimated at this point, but that is the current plan.
Cavener: Perfect. Thank you.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: One question to follow up on Council Woman Strader's line of questioning. Deb,
when the -- when you met with the school district and in light of, you know, this project,
but also Brundage and Biltmore and Stapleton, did they provide to you locations of lots -
- properties that they own for future, you know, unfunded, unplanned, but eventual school
sites around this area and is there anything in the K-8 range near this development, at
land from the school district?
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, my understanding -- but I believe it's more
perhaps from looking at the facilities plan, but maybe also from Toll's discussions with the
school district is that there is a -- a future high school site and a future elementary site
near this property along Linder, but I don't have more specifics than that. I'm sorry. I --
in the facilities plan they do lay out general regions for future development and -- but I
think largely it is in response to need.
Borton: Understood. Okay. Thanks.
Simison: Council, any further questions for the applicant?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: I think that's Councilman Hoaglun or --
Hoaglun: Okay, Mr. Mayor. Question for Ms. Nelson. In your testimony you talked about
removing properties on that western border and I'm looking at the phasing. Is this -- it
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looks like that's -- that's one -- was one of the original proposed phasing and platting of
-- it looks like there is more properties along those Ada county rural properties than there
are in the one -- the newly submitted -- submitted one; is that correct?
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, that's correct. This is the old lot layout.
Hoaglun: Okay. And you said -- Mr. Mayor, to follow up -- reduced by about 14 properties.
So, about -- that's what -- where is the area of those were reduced?
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, it perhaps would be easiest to look at the
transitional zoning. I think that may answer your -- your question the best. You can see
in the R-2 zone this is -- this is also the -- the previous plan and in that R-2 zone, which
is pink here, we eliminated five lots in our recent concession that we have offered to the
Council if you want to impose that condition to further increase the lot sizes and reduce
the density in that R-2 zone.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor. Ms. Nelson, so that would increase the lot size to the half acre, if
not a little more in size?
Nelson: Mr. Mayor and Council Member Hoaglun, that's right. We are committed to a
minimum half acre, which means that some of them necessarily range up to two-thirds
and that's all along the perimeter.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Simison: Council, anything further at this time?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: It's not here on the -- in the presentation, but to state the -- that facilities plan
which is referenced, the school district's facilities plan does -- does reference school sites
that they have planned for for future should -- should future funding arise and it's near this
property.
Simison: Yes, that is correct. There is future places near this property when funding is
there. Okay. Thank you very much.
Nelson: Thank you.
Simison: Okay. This is a public hearing. Madam Clerk.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we had several people sign in. Mindy Lin is the first who wished
to testify.
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Simison: Okay. As your name is called if you would come forward or raise your hand on
the Zoom app and you will be recognized for three minutes and, please, state your name
and address for the record prior to starting your testimony.
Lin: My name is Mindy Lin. Address is 4262 South Rustler. Can you hear me?
Simison: Yes, we can.
Lin: Okay. I actually -- I signed up to speak, as did my neighbor Wayne Martin, who is
actually out of town (unintelligible) combine our time and our statements if that's okay and
I would still be under the three minutes.
Simison: You have three minutes.
Lin: So, I will start with Wayne. Wayne is on record saying I would like it to be known at
this evening's meeting for Toll Brothers have been nothing but divisive throughout this
entire process. They have met with most of us on an individual basis and each time we
were told something different than what they were actually planning on doing. I was
personally told by (unintelligible) in New Jersey that they would provide one acre to three-
quarter acre lots on the R-2 boundary and those homes would be one story. I think I
explained that privacy was paramount for us and they both agreed with me. I also told
Mr. Capell in New Jersey that they would -- that they would -- I was also told by them that
they would create a six foot berm with a six foot fence on top of that with well populated
trees and other vegetation. They also promised to stub out services for our rural
community to take advantage of. Mr. Capell and Mr. (unintelligible) both agreed that they
would provide the same writing as they told others the same prior to any city council
meeting. I have attempted three times to reach out to them without a response. In my
last face to face meeting with Mr. Capell and Mr. (unintelligible) I told them how
disappointed I was that they did -- to pit one neighbor against another. I told both of them
we did not want to get in the middle of any -- of any arguing. In their own words they have
tried very hard to pit neighbor against the other. Most of the neighbors in these two
communities are very close and most of us are very good friends. I find it despicable that
they have -- that they have went to such lengths to attempt to separate our opinions from
one another. I would like it to be known we are all on a united front and understand
progress is necessary, but we also understand there is a right way to proceed and a wrong
way. Toll Brothers has opted for the latter and has been very deceitful throughout the
process. At this point I do not see Toll Brothers as a good neighbor, nor a good business
partner for the City of Meridian. Each of us in these two neighborhoods have worked
hard to obtain what we have. We chose these neighborhoods because we wanted the
rural lifestyle that southern Meridian provided. Please do not allow Toll Brothers to take
from us what we all love so much. Mr. Mayor and City Council, I, myself, would like to
end my three minutes by pointing out what we all understand. In addition to burdening
our schools, leap frogging over open land to develop this far out, it's important to remind
this developer and future developers that in order for good reputations to remain intact,
relationship management have to be prioritized. While they may have lovely
presentations, make no mistake how they operate behind the scenes proves Toll Brothers
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does not understand this philosophy. You should know that we were recently told by the
Toll Brothers representative that Toll Brothers and this model were already charted by the
city as a model for developers breaking into rural communities. If this is the case the city
is in trouble. We have consistently asked for one acre minimum transition. However, as
Toll Brothers continues to refuse to work with us or put anything in writing, continues to
respond to requests and makes changes at the 11th hour, even as late as last night at
10:30, continues to pick and choose neighbors to work with, while boasting that they have
the model the city wants established, their strategy to divide and conquer has neighbors
who are worn down from a year of lies and charades and now fearful that they should
settle off the less out of worry for that -- that the city will not hold to their statements that
occurred back in December. Please uphold what was said in December and protect our
rural property by not approving the plan with anything less than one acre for R-2 and
single story homes as an appropriate transition between our homes. As you will hear
tonight from Mrs. Ward's testimony, there are so many other things that have been
requested still not in writing at this point and we desperately need your help. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next we have Wendy Webb, who has signed up speaking on behalf
of the Southern Rim Coalition.
Simison: If you could speak into that microphone real well so Councilman Hoaglun can
hear you.
Webb: If you don't mind I'm going to take off my mask -- my mask, because I know my
voice is very soft to begin with. Good evening, Mayor Simison and City Council Members.
For the record my name is Wendy Webb. My address is 2299 East Lodge Trail Drive in
Meridian, Idaho. Thank you for allowing me a few minutes of your time tonight. I hope
you have all had the opportunity to review the Southern Rim Coalition's thoughts that
were submitted on this application. The amount of documents on this application are very
impressive. I'm impressed that you have had the time to look at so much of them. In
short, you have heard it all before. Please set the standard high. We have been really
impressed with this new City Council, what a great job you are doing in that regard. Our
biggest concerns as always are quality open space, proper lot transition, emergent
services, schools, pathways, you know -- you know what we are concerned about.
Tonight I'm hoping to give you some additional insight into the schools for this particular
development. Like Council Woman Strader, I am also very zeroed in on the schools. I'm
very concerned about our community and the capacity of our district. I have put together
a little presentation to help us better understand the situation. So, go to the next slide.
Do I have control over that? Okay. You have to forgive me, too, this is -- oh. Okay. Here
we are. The first letter -- or the first line -- oh. Thank you. That would be much easier.
The first line talks about how West Ada has experienced significant and sustained growth
in student enrollment during the last ten years. Many of our schools throughout the district
are operating at or above capacity. So, to start out with the district has told us -- most of
their schools -- many of their schools are operating at or above capacity. With this new
development -- next page -- Cedarbrook will have 330 homes. The other developments
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in the area that are feeding into the same schools are 1 ,550. Now, I have to tell you it is
labor intensive to go through the city application and try and figure out how many
residential units are planned. I put 1 ,550 plus, because I wasn't able to find numbers for
what's left in Caven Ridge Estates, what's left in Ridgeline Estates, or what's in
Southridge. And understand Southridge is an apartment complex, so the numbers are
even lower. So, just so you know, it's 1,550 plus homes. Now, you add the Cedarbrook
homes, that makes it 1,880 new homes feeding into those schools, which with the school
board's -- the school district's calculation that creates 1 ,540 new students to feed into
those schools. The elementary approximately 770 new student. Mary McPherson can
take 69 of those students. That leaves 701 students. Okay. Now, granted, we are hoping
-- hoping, hoping, hoping that more schools will pass in bonds, but let's just say 30 percent
of those homes are built before Blue Valley comes, which is really reasonable looking at
the slide a few minutes ago at early -- you know, the earliest we are going to get it would
be the fall of '23. A hundred and sixty-two students will still need to attend other schools
before that school even comes online. The middle school will be approximately 385
students that could feed to the middle school. Victory can take 31 . They are also
competing with the rest of south Meridian where we have over 1 ,700 new homes that
have been approved in the other area of just east of that. Victory can take 31 of those
students. That leaves 354 students in this area to be bused to other schools and there
are no other middle schools planned in the near future. A few months ago I went to a
school board meeting and they talked about growth. I think, if I remember right, there is
a site just north of Amity across from the new YMCA that's slotted for a middle school. If
I remember right it was like '27 or something that -- when we thought it could be built. But
that's -- you know, those projections could change. I'm not sure where the middle school
students would go, to be honest with you. High school. There is approximately 385
students from this area. They will go to Meridian High School at this time. Meridian High
School has the capacity, they can take all 385 of those students. That might change as
other developments in the city add to Meridian High School's population. We all ask is
this a boundary problem. That's a valid, valid question. I'm not sure that it is.
(Unintelligible).
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, could you have Wendy -- I think she's turning her head, because
she has -- she says a couple words and, then, a couple disappear, so --
Webb: Okay. I will try not to move. That's hard. Okay. So, Pleasant View came online
and it didn't change any of our boundaries. That kind of makes me wonder and think that
it's not a boundary problem. I also know that moving children to different schools
frequently can be hard on their emotional and social well-being. And, then, I know that
reportedly last October, talking to Joe Yochum, he said that there were a thousand empty
seats in the elementary schools in West Ada. So, we know through the years some of
those seats filled, but if you just take those thousand seats and you spread them over the
34 schools that are West Ada District, that gives each school less than 29 seats that are
extra in the school and that's having the school classroom size be a size of 30. 1 -- I am
not in favor of first grade classrooms having a capacity of 30 and so that's kind of a high
number there. So, with approximately 24 classes per school, that's just like one, give or
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take, per home. Really that's not much of a cushion. I think the Kuna School District
needs to have that kind of a --
Borton: Your audio is fading in and out again, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Yeah. Would you like to testify from the other location or do we want to use a
-- try a different -- I know we have a handheld. Try that one.
Webb: Maybe that will accommodate my moving. Sorry. Okay.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I apologize. Now it's totally no sound.
Simison: They are working on turning the microphone on.
Borton: Oh. Okay.
Simison: Can you hear anything now from the applicant? Can you talk for a second?
Webb: Can you hear me?
Borton: No. Faint at best.
Simison: Just want to make it so that -- so they can use the machine to advance their
own slides and things of that nature. Try that. While they are getting set up, just for --
some of analysis that you are seeing is what the new position will be doing. Just a little
bit more detail, because what they did showcase here was not the full boundary for
Meridian High School, which has a fairly large boundary, which has a lot more
development, but you get a fuller picture as well. Just so some of my Council Members
know what will be coming soon. The position starts on Monday, so --
Hoaglun: So, Mr. Mayor, are you saying at the next Council meeting we will have some
information?
Simison: No. Soon.
Johnson: Mayor and Council, this is Chris. Can you hear me in here?
Simison: Yes.
Johnson: Okay. We are going to ask Sonya to advance the slides out there. I'm going
to turn Wendy over -- I couldn't bring it up.
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Webb: I'm not a technology girl.
Simison: Okay. Wendy, whenever you are ready to continue.
Webb: Okay. Can you hear me?
Hoaglun: Yes.
Simison: Yes.
Webb: Great. Okay. I'm trying to remember where it was at. Hopefully you remember
where I'm at with the slides. I don't see the slides yet in front of me. I don't know if they
are coming up. Okay. Thank you. Can you hear me still?
Borton: Yes.
Webb: Okay. Let's move on to the next slide. Just -- just to give you an idea of when
they say a school is overcrowded or at capacity, these are some samples that we saw at
Hillsdale in the last couple of years in 2018-2019 school year sixth grade classes were at
38, 39 and 39 students per class. This was documented by school staff. Only one teacher
stayed for the next year. Imagine that. They were worn out. In 2019-2021 school year
first grade classroom -- classes had approximately 31 students. As quoted by a parent,
all the first grade classes were around the same number. The classroom limit for first
grade is supposed to be 26. And Mary McPherson, which is the elementary school in this
area that we are talking about tonight, cannot physically hold as many bodies as a -- as
a Hillsdale classroom. They are really really small. I -- I was told by a parent that 25 is -
- is pretty top end. Going to the next slide. So, our question where is the breaking point.
As you know rapid growth is outpacing the school -- the school district's build after
demand model. Neighborhood schools are overcrowded necessitating busing. District
schools don't have capacity. No alternative funding for building schools is out there. And
the bonds simply can't keep up. Parents just this week, where are the kids going to go to
school? We always put the kids last when they are our future. Two weeks ago a Kuna
realtor said you don't want to buy in Meridian, their schools are overcrowded. So, we all
know that. With that letter I had a question about the last sentence where they said school
capacity and transportation is addressed in Idaho Code. Future development will
continue to have an impact on the district's capacity. I put the Idaho Code there. I don't
completely understand it. I think it would be great if we understood what the school district
meant by that sentence and maybe what Council translates that sentence to mean. Just
one of my thoughts. It's a community problem. I -- I am not a finger pointer. I don't ever
believe in laying blame on one person. I think the developers have good plans. It's not
reflecting on them. It's just reflecting on our community. We need to work together and
come up with a solution. And this final slide is not for children in Kuna, Nampa, or Boise.
And that is all I have for you tonight, unless you have further questions.
Simison: All right. Thank you, Wendy. Council, any questions?
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Strader: Mr. Mayor, I will take a bite. It's Liz.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you, Wendy, for doing this amazing amount of analysis on your own.
think it just speaks to your passion on this topic. Out of the developments that you
analyzed to get to the different numbers you were talking about, the 770 elementary
students, middle school, et cetera, are these developments that have already been
approved and are entitled or what -- like how did you choose that population of new
developments that are being delivered.
Webb: Those are developments -- those are developments that already have been
approved. As far as I know. Unless I have something wrong. I have tried to be really
careful, but those are developments that have already been approved.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any other questions?
Borton: No.
Simison: Thank you. Madam Clerk.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, we have Kenzie, who signed up to speak on behalf of Rock Ranch
Estates.
Simison: It might be better to go in the room, just -- Council appears to be hearing better.
Hoaglun: Yes, Mr. Mayor. And appreciate Wendy accommodating us. She had important
things to say and definitely wanted to hear -- hear that, so we appreciate her making that
switch.
Ward: Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and City Council
Members. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak and share our concerns. My
name is Kenzie Ward. I live at 4605 South Rock Ranch Lane and am representing my
neighborhood Rock Ranch Estates. As immediate neighbors to the proposed Cedarbrook
Subdivision we would like to share our concerns regarding several aspects of this
application. All meetings with Toll Brothers have been held. Our concerns have not been
properly met and we would like to see changes made to the proposed plan. It was a long
road to get here, but I can tell you first none of us -- none of us want this development
here. None of us want 332 neighbors. None of us want our schools to become even
more overcrowded. None of us want the inevitable traffic congestion from the 3,334
vehicle trips this development will add per day for our two lane, four way country stop --
four way stop country roads that do not have improvements planned in the next ten years.
None of us want our amazing views of beautiful farmland and mountain ranges to replace
-- be replaced by rooftops. Some of us have been more vocal than others, but none of
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us approve of this development. However, we are here to try to make this development
the best we possibly can if it is to be approved. Throughout this process that began last
year with the comp plan meeting with these spots to protect our rural lifestyle and
agricultural practices, however, our rural designation was removed and we are now
considered low density. However, this medium density development is not abutting low
density whatsoever as is indicated on the future land use map. Our subdivisions are not
three houses per acre. They are not even one house per three acres. Our neighboring
properties are absolutely rural with one house on five acres or more. This is a medium
density development neighboring rural estate properties. This makes your job as our city
leaders so incredibly important and we look to you and your promises made last year
during the comp plan meeting. So, hold true to your word. Commissioner Seal also
remembered those promises made to protect rural residents from these encroaching
developments as he spoke at the P&Z meeting on May 7th. When referring to continuing
with larger lots around the perimeter he said, quote: This is something that the people
that have the larger estates asked what could be done if we didn't keep the rural
designation? What could be done when something like this happens against them? So,
again, our answer was, well, we can help modify that in the future. So, we had a lot of
people that are asking for that. We are going to have people ask for it in the future and I
think it would be wise of us to recommend that to the city. End quote. Councilman Borton
also spoke in support of protecting rural heritage and agricultural principles at the
December 17th meeting, as well as protecting our area of southern Meridian by saying,
quote: The open space in the rural context of southern Meridian in particular, in some
circumstances it very well may be a one acre lot or two acre lot is the transition. It's a
case by case basis. One acre might be too small for a transition. End quote. We
absolutely agree with you, Councilman Borton. We are asking you to follow through with
the promises of a proper transition when the time came and that time is now. We are
asking for a minimum of one acre lots along both the western and southern border to
transition from this dense development for a wide open space at the south.
Commissioner Seal and Cassinelli were not in favor of approving this development and
wanted to see the R-2 zone around the southern perimeter, not just along the western
edge as proposed in the plat. We would also like to see the one acre lots around the
perimeter, west, southwest and south perimeter to be a minimum of 200 feet wide with
only single story houses in order to reduce the impact on our view shed. Another huge
concern we have is that the promises that Toll Brothers have said they would put into
writing are nowhere to be seen in the application that I can find, nor have they been put
into writing and given to those promised, as Mindy's testimony and Wayne's testimony
said. They have made promises of a four foot berm with landscaping and a six foot wood
style vinyl fence along the perimeter and you can see in their final pre-plat landscaping
there is nothing along the perimeter as far as berms and landscaping goes. Those are
only five lots as specified in the update -- as of 2:00 o'clock this afternoon that they said
they will put in a berm and fence, which is not acceptable. To quote Commissioner Seal
from the P&Z meeting again, quote: I think if they are going to do a berm with trees and
a fence along part of the -- that border, that they should do a berm, a fence, and trees
along all of it and make it all R-2, even to the southwest and south portion of this and we
absolutely agree. The promised berm and landscaping to serve as a buffer along the
entire western and southern perimeters, including the Radfords and the Lowes properties
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to the south who also have five plus acre properties. Without that berm as a buffer there
is nothing but a fence between our rural properties. Other promises have been made that
they will stub utilities, including fiber optic internet to the property lines of both Stetson
and Rock Ranch. Again, that is not anywhere in their plan, including their revisions letter
that was updated on June 29th and we would like to have that in writing. Other than the
one acre lots, the single story homes around the perimeter, we are only asking that the
promises that have been made to our residents are actually put into writing in their plan,
which includes a four foot berm along the western and the southern perimeter with trees,
bushes and a six foot wood style vinyl fence, as well as the utilities stubbed to the property
lines. We would also ask for there to be a provision in the development agreement that
the homes will not be investor owned. Tolls Brothers has implemented a strategy when
meeting with neighbors to divide and conquer and it appears to be exactly that, a strategy
to divide the neighborhood individually so that Toll Brothers can say and promise whatever
they want without it being refuted by others. The company absolutely needs to be held
to a higher standard and not allowed to cut corners. We do not believe Toll Brothers will
follow through with any of these promises unless they are forced to keep them. So, we
asked you, our city leaders, please, do not approve this development without all promises
in writing and in the development agreement, so that when it comes down to it we have
something to hold them accountable to you. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, last on our list is Paula Connelly.
Connelly: Good evening, Mayor. Can you hear me?
Simison: We can, Paula. If you could state your name and address for the record, please.
Connelly: My name is Paula Connelly. I live at 3878 South Rustler Lane and I'm here to
represent Stetson Estates.
Simison: Okay. You will be recognized for ten minutes.
Connelly: Thank you. Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. The testimony I
prepared last night was very lengthy and they were well prepared and this morning I woke
up to an e-mail and to my surprise I had an e-mail from -- from Toll Brothers and that has
totally kind of put my testimony off kilter. So, I apologize for anything that seems
discombobuled. I am very frustrated with this whole process. Part of my frustration is
getting the e-mail at 10:00 o'clock at night and when I find that in the morning I am trying
to revise it while I'm at work all day trying to run my husband's and my business. My
second frustration is that the city and the Planning Department allowed changes at 2:00
o'clock in the afternoon. As you could see and was pointed out by one of the Council
Members earlier, the slides that Toll Brothers was using tonight didn't even have the
accurate count number of properties on them, because what they are proposing now was
turned in at 2:00 o'clock. That does not allow people to have any kind of time to prepare,
especially when you are working or you are trying to run businesses, when you need to
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try and communicate with neighbors because, as it's been stated before, we are a very
close knit neighborhood, we do things together, we do communicate and we have been
trying to be a united front on this. So, please, forgive me if this is a little bit off. I will stand
for questions at the end for clarity if you need it, because I have completely rewritten my
speech since sitting here this evening. It is our position as a community -- we are
committed to one acre parcels (unintelligible) submitted until 2:00 p.m., today, leaving us
no time for communication. We believe that there should be a minimum of ten days that
should be required by the City Planning Department and the city as a whole to have this
complete, so people have time to prepare. With that in mind I replied to say that Stetson
Estates would like to see one acre parcels as a transition between our communities and
Cedarbrook. The Cedarbrook application on page 11 states that Toll Brothers is willing to
take our concerns into consideration providing an increased rear setback of 30 feet,
instead of the required 15 feet to provide enhanced building separation and greater
privacy. If you look at the picture on the upper left of the screen, those are landscape
stakes that are staked 30 feet from my back house. That's 30 feet. I understand that's a
minimum, but that is not a transition. I'm a very visual person, so let's take -- look at the
next picture. The picture on the upper right is a picture of a 300 -- excuse me -- 3,556
square foot home on a half acre. As you can see, there is still not a very large transition
in the back. I find it interesting that in their presentation they tout that there is 280 feet
between our houses and where their houses will fit with that 30 foot setback. That
transition comes from our rural properties, not what they are putting in. That's not a proper
transition to what we already have and is existing and in the (unintelligible) 3.07.01A it
states that all new developments are to create a site design compatible with surrounding
uses through buffering, screenings, transitional densities, and other best practices. That
means that their transition needs to be on their side of the fence line, not ours. I also find
it interesting that while they feel that that is a proper transition, you have to remember
that we do practice light agriculture and processing light agriculture -- we just raked our
fields today. So, that means I'm not standing 180 feet from my fence line, I'm driving up
and down with a tractor or my husband is or somebody else. Okay? I don't stand just at
my back house all day long. I'm outside with the cows. I'm outside with the chickens. I'm
outside doing all kinds of things. So, yes, their sight line that they say is not going to be
an issue for us will be an issue for us when we are not right at our back door. We own
properties that we farm on. That's why we want a proper transition. Those one acre lots
protect the people who move into Cedarbrook as much as they protect our view sheds,
our property values and our privacy. It's up to you to balance the property rights between
those that exist and those that want to sell their property to develop. We understand that
it's not just our property rights, but as City Council Members it's your awesome
responsibility to figure out how do I balance between what's there and what's coming in
to make sure that those neighbors become good neighbors. Let me state our position
very clearly and, then, I will stand for questions. One acre parcels (unintelligible) would
be like vinyl fence centered on the property line (unintelligible) --
Simison: Paula, can you, please, state -- go back to where -- it's about 20 seconds ago.
We lost you on the audio.
Connelly: What was I -- what was I talking about?
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: If I remember Paula, you were -- you were kind of wanting to state something
kind of unequivocally. You wanted to be very direct to a point and, then, at that -- you
were getting ready to make your point and you went muffled.
Connelly: Was it about agriculture?
Cavener: You touched on that. So, it would be shortly thereafter. Again, to the Mayor's
point about 20 seconds before we interrupted you.
Connelly: Okay.
A Voice: Paula, you were making it clear what our expectations -- our ask was.
Connelly: Okay. So, let me state our position very clearly. One acre parcels would be
the best transition, along with the berm. Awood-like vinyl fence centered on the property
line with proper landscape screening provided in the R-2 areas and considering how often
we as neighbors have communicated that we would like to have everything in writing, we
would like to see an ask that you respectfully remand this project to include the above
items and that they would be put into a development agreement to make it binding, so
that there are no last minute 2:00 p.m. changes. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Paula. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mrs. Connelly, thanks for your testimony. A couple of comments and maybe,
then, a question for you. One think -- you know, you have kind of kept Council updated
and the public updated through your process and want to apologize I think for the
frustrations that you felt in information being delivered kind of, you know, to your
perspective, last minute. I think staff did a good job -- at least at the Planning and Zoning
Commission in kind of articulating where some of that -- why some of that happens, but I
still wanted to apologize on behalf of the Mayor and the Council nevertheless. My
question was -- it looks like even as early as this afternoon you have continued to have
e-mail conversations with the applicant. I'm just curious if -- some of that is -- that has
been updated with us at least from the applicant and I'm just curious if there is any
information that you want to share with the Council since the e-mail that we received
earlier this afternoon.
Connelly: I can tell you from June 30th, last week, there was a planned meeting, both
myself and Mindy Lin -- it would have been a little over a week ago we had received
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phone calls asking us if we would be willing to accept half acre parcels and those phone
calls were both individual and myself I told them I could not commit to that without talking
to all of our neighbors, because we had been communicating with each other about those
things. Mindy Lin's conversation went the same route. She said we can set up a meeting,
but we have to have time to talk to our neighbors, find out if we can all be there. We can
have a meeting. We had our meeting on June 30th. They showed up with the same
virtual plot of one-third acres, which is very disappointing to us. I'm not sure why they
didn't come prepared to show us that half acre just because two of us said we could not
communicate that without talking to our neighbors first. And then -- so, they sent over the
half acre parcels to us on Wednesday last week. I believe it was in the 5:00, 6:00 o'clock
p.m. hour. So, we tried to communicate the next day. Myself and several others were
out of town because it was a holiday weekend and even though I was gone I spent my
Friday of my 25th anniversary weekend with my husband writing up an e-mail and a
proposal to counterproposal to them that we got sent back later -- I think in the 7:00, 8:00
o'clock time frame that evening and so it's frustrating because everything takes a little bit
of time and, then, once we sent the proposal off I heard nothing on Monday until 10:00
p.m. Well, I'm already in bed. I have got my -- my stuff all written out and, then, they
send it. I get up this morning, I see it, and I have to go to work. I don't have the luxury --
development isn't my job. I have a business with my husband that I'm trying to run and
so I'm trying to do that all day and check applications and see what's been turned in. I
start rewriting and revising some things, because I'm asking to see if the half acre plots
have been turned in. On my lunch hour it had not been turned in, so I thought I was good
to go, and, then, it -- you know, I come to find out one of my neighbors text me at 2:00
o'clock or 2:30 and she says they have turned stuff in. So, I think what I want to
communicate to City Council and to the staff is if you don't allow and have a set time
frame of when things could -- can be turned in or have to be turned in, we as a community
struggle being involved and I know you guys are always asking the community members
be involved in your process and it's not that we don't want to be involved, we find it
frustrating for these -- for things that are like this. Any other questions?
Simison: Council, any other questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Just a comment. I also feel for you and empathize and -- and we can hear the
frustration in your voice. I know, you know, we have some process planning initiatives
that are underway and I think we should just take that feedback to heart. You know, we
really need to have a process that's fair for everyone. You are -- you know, a lot of people
are working families. I get it. You don't have time to be checking this at the last minute.
I couldn't agree more. So, thank you for staying part of the process, though, and for not
giving up on it and still showing up tonight. We appreciate that.
Connelly: Any other questions?
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Simison: Council, any other questions? Okay. I understand we have reached the end
of our people who have signed up at this point in time. Is there anybody else in the
audience who would like to testify or anybody who would like to testify on Zoom? You
can do so by raising your hand and the clerk will identify you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, online the first person to raise their hand was Denise. I will go
ahead and move her over.
Simison: Okay. Denise, if you could state your name and address for the record, please.
You will have to unmute yourself. There you go.
LaFever: Hi. My name is Denise LaFever. I live at 6706 North Salvia Way. One of the
individuals that's been involved in this they asked me if I would take a look at the
application process and I was actually quite surprised when I looked at the number of
changes from P&Z to City Council and I was trying to go back through and track the open
spaces, the plat, you know, some of the -- that changed and there was just -- to me there
was just a lot of changes and even when I listened to tonight's testimony and I listened
and I watched the plats come up for the staff, the developer, I'm really quite honestly not
sure which plat you are going to incorporate in there. The developer brought up one that
has these larger acre lot -- I mean these half acre transition lots. The staff had two
different plots within their own -- within their own presentation. There was a really nice
open space, one that was done at one time that had a connection on the -- on the west
side that connected the neighborhoods with a pathway for any future expansion and those
were different in the staff report. One of the things -- I did see they made a lot of changes
to the amenities in the open space, which, you know, the amenities that they changed
from the time I went to P&Z to the time where it is now is great. One of the concerns that
I have -- and it was my brainchild. The developer had said that Century Farms had less
open space in it. Just a reminder that the linear parkway, which was added into the
calculation for qualified open space, that was a change that was done after Century Farm
and that is now allowed to be in that calculation. In addition to that, when I go back and
I looked at that, the other thing that came up was the lateral amenities. Yes, linear parks
was something that I talked about when we were on the -- on steering committee and --
and I talked about using lateral areas as an amenity, but this one -- this one is not really
vetted out very well. We talked about making them nice amenities so they don't become
weeds. You're putting boulders in it, having -- having a pathway along it and really making
it a feature in the neighborhood. This one here from what I see is just -- it's not really well
vetted out and what I would hate to see is just like a concrete lateral out there that doesn't
have a pathway, that's not incorporated, that's not an amenity and -- but, yet, it's a way to
go back through and have a calculation within the open space. So, I guess when I look
back at that, I mean lot size, width change, access change, setbacks changed, and
amenities changed, open space changed. And right now I -- I know that one of the things
that I just heard on this last conversation was there was a letter between the developer
and the homeowners association, which is something that at bare minimum they may be
agreeable to, but yet that's not incorporated into the Council's decision tonight and I'm
going to leave with this. I'm still not sure what plat you guys are looking at approving.
would like to see you guys send it back to P&Z and get all these staff reports updated.
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Simison: Council, any questions for Denise? Okay. Thank you very much. Up next it
looks like we have Sally Reynolds.
Weatherly: That's correct, Mr. Mayor.
Reynolds: Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Members of City Council, I'm actually out of state.
Can you hear my audio okay?
Simison: We can. State your name and address for the record, please.
Reynolds: Certainly. My name is -- sure. My name is Sally Reynolds. My address is
1166 West Bacall Street in Meridian. I have served on the Meridian Comprehensive Plan
steering committee in 2019 and I'm currently part of the city's open space and amenities
work group. A major finding during the comp plan process was that residents wanted
increased open space. Open space contributes to the city's overall livability and
economic sustainability. The open space survey substantiated this. Some respondents
defined open space as public parks, pathways, and gathering spaces and other said it's
nature reserves or the preservation of farmland and ag practices. While not available as
a survey choice, some residents often defined open space as the spacing between
houses or what do they want to see when they drive down the road. There is an overall
feeling that Meridian is becoming too dense and they see open space as a way to alleviate
that. So, they don't necessarily want all open space to be usable by the public, they just
don't want to live in a community where all they see is lines of black roof tops melding
together in an unending stream of cookie cutter neighborhoods. Now, the Rustler Lane
and Rock Ranch areas are two areas in Meridian that add character, variety, and open
space to Meridian. They are rare estate properties with nature and farming capabilities.
They are working and paying to maintain prime open space in Meridian without the city
needing to maintain a city park, buy rural farmland to preserve it, or fund a nature reserve
through taxpayer or developer impact fees. The Cedarbrook development is sandwiched
between two low density residential areas, which really should have been labeled low --
ultra low density or rural. Throughout the comp plan process the entire steering
committee, which included P&Z Commissioners, was aware of this unique square mile
and as Ms. Ward quoted Commissioner Seal's comments, that was shown. Last year
residents gave copious testimonies about retaining the rural designation or at least an
ultra low density designation because we knew it was the only path to ensure proper
transition between rural properties and new developments. Now, despite over 400
signatures on a petition and public testimony that did not happen. For me this is not a
matter of has the developer offered the current residents enough or eliminated enough
lots to, you know, try and justify their one half acre transitions. My question is a matter of
principle. Do we believe that one third to one acre lots are really an adequate transition
from five acre rural estate lots? And I'm going to add a sidebar here, just because of Ms.
Connelly's testimony that a large single level home on a half acre lot is really going to eat
up the majority of that lot. That footprint. And so what will that transition look like as
residents drive down the road? Will it look like --
Simison- Sally, we lost you.
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Reynolds: -- a condition to have at least one row of one acre transitional lots. It would
give a less jarring transition to the MDR neighborhood and maintain that rural feel and
open space -- space that residents are so desperately asking for. The very least we can
do is review this application on the case-by-case process it was promised and up -- and
think of both the property rights of existing owners and the future that will be in
Cedarbrook. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you, Sally. Just so you know, we lost your audio for about 15, 20
seconds. I don't know if you realize that or not.
Reynolds: I was wondering -- I think it was just where I said it's one thing to have MDR
right up against a berm on a housing -- was it that part that you missed?
Simison: It was right after you said -- talked about a half acre home or a large home on
a half acre. It went out right after that.
Reynolds: Okay. So, I will just read that part. It's just -- so, what will the transition look
like as residents drive down the road? Will it look like we are waiting for these residents
to move out so more MDR can be added and I was saying it's one thing to see MDR as
you're driving down the road on a berm, but it's another to see beautiful farms and, then,
see three to ten lots abutting it. So, I asked if we could, please, add the condition to have
one row of one acre lots for a less jarring transition and uphold the promise of the case-
by-case basis that we had discussed previously.
Simison: Okay. Thank you very much. I think that covers --
Reynolds: The missing part. Okay. Perfect. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I apologize for the
audio.
Simison: I appreciate everyone working and adjusting to our technical challenges.
Cavener: Nice to hear from you, Sally.
Reynolds: Wonderful to hear from all of you. Thank you and have a great night.
Simison: Thank you. Madam Clerk, do we have anybody else online with their hand
raised?
Weatherly: Not at this time, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Okay.
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Bongiorno.
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Bongiorno: Thank you. Mayor and City Council, since this particular map is up, I just
wanted to make a clarification to Sonya's presentation. I want to make sure that it's very
clear that this particular sub has one way in and one way out. The two emergency
accesses that are shown on the right do not fulfill the fire code. There is a third access
that's not shown, that road that comes in on the east and kind of runs straight and, then,
heads up into the corner, there is another emergency access that runs out to Victory. That
was the only way that they could build this entire subdivision. So, Bill Parsons and I had
a couple of conversations about this particular piece of property, mainly because if Linder
was shut down for some reason no one would have had access to their property. It would
have been done. So, that was when we worked with Toll Brothers to get that third access
that is not shown on any of the maps that goes out to Victory. So, I just want to make
sure that everyone understands that there is only one way in and one way out for normal
traffic to this subdivision. Everything else is emergency access only. So, from an
emergency standpoint it's not ideal, but it is functional. But, again, you're going to have
all of that traffic from that entire subdivision going through that one intersection.
Simison: Thank you, deputy chief. Well, it does appear that we have anybody else who
is looking to testify at this time. Council, are we ready to have the applicant come back
up? Okay.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I will try very hard to speak up and, please,
let me know if you cannot hear me. I want to address just some of the comments. I will
start with school and the comments that we heard from Ms. Webb. Ms. Webb has
compiled it sounds like from the number of lots that are proposed in preliminary plats that
have been approved, but she attributes them all to taking up capacity in a single year,
saying that she came up with a number of 1 ,540 new students just from our immediate
area would be added to our area schools. Instead, the correct calculation used by the
school district would be to spread that out over a ten year period and, in fact, that -- that
calculation has been shown over time -- from the facility plan, if you look at the 20 year
average for all schools in the entire district, 927 students have been added and so 1,540
are not going to be added in one year just in our location. So, those numbers don't
accurately reflect the immediate capacity demands on -- on these schools. In our
meetings with Joe Yochum he did indicate that he expects the Blue Valley to come on in
'22. That the new classroom sizes in the Mary McPherson expansion will be larger. I
want to address the timing issues that there has been some concerns and response from
the City Council and particularly the last comments from Ms. LaFever, just to put it in
context. She talked about the number of changes to the application. I just want to be
clear that except for the change in the larger perimeter lots that Toll Brothers has come
forward with as a concession to the neighbor's demands, all of the other changes are
requests by the Planning and Zoning Commission or city staff where they asked for
adjustments, they asked for an additional playground, they asked for additional open
space and, then, we were asked in the conditions of approval that were presented in the
staff report before the Commission to provide that before Council, which we did, and so
none of that is new information that wasn't already known that would be provided. It was
laid out in the staff report before the Commission. The new information is our effort to
continue to work with the neighbors to try to evaluate whether we can expand these lots
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and Toll Brothers has taken their request very seriously. The concessions that they have
offered with the berming, with the installed improvements, these are significant and costly.
Losing lots is costly. And they did try to share this with the neighbors as quickly as
possible. As was noted they reached out, there was a meeting, they provided the R-2
example with the larger half acre lots last Wednesday. They also provided the single
story exhibit of where they thought that that -- the single story homes could fit there last
Thursday. The e-mail that they sent last night was in response to Paula's e-mail that she
sent Friday night and so they are trying very hard to update the neighbors, to respond to
the neighbors updated concerns and questions. They have worked hard to try to
understand and address all of the neighbors' concerns. There was discussion about the
transition and the Council's Comprehensive Plan, discussion about transition, and as you
all remember, because it was very recent, there was a proposal to require a minimum of
one acre lots when you are transitioning to county rural residential and the Council
declined to --
Borton: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor? Sorry.
Simison: Yes.
Borton: The audio is cutting -- fading out again a little bit.
Nelson: Is this better?
Borton: Not yet, no.
Nelson: Council Members, this -- if I stop moving so much does that help? I talk when I
move and I move when I talk. Is that any better or do you want me to move?
Borton: Very faint here.
Bernt: Deb, you're doing fine.
Hoaglun: I would call it fuzzy.
Simison: Yeah. Maybe if you went into the other room.
Nelson: Okay.
Hoaglun: And there is the headline. Mayor sends people to their room.
Simison: Can you pause the timer.
Johnson: Sound check. Can you hear us okay?
Borton: Much better.
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Johnson: Okay.
Nelson: Thank you, Council Members, for letting me know you couldn't hear me. I was
talking about the Comprehensive Plan update where the Council declined to adopt the
one acre minimum adjacent to rural residential, but I know that you still did care a lot
about transitional and what you said at that time was that you didn't want to make that a
boilerplate rule, you understood that that wouldn't fit in a lot of properties. Instead, you
wanted to evaluate where transmission makes sense and you look -- you were looking to
numerous factors to take into account and the language that was proposed at that time
would have not required any transition if you had a buffer such as a roadway or open
space intervening. Here, as I mentioned, we had a roadway removed, we have also got
the significant distance from the home. Other factors that should take into account in this
case-by-case basis and current circumstances, the changes in topography and all of the
concessions that have been made, the single story, the constructed buffers, the double
setbacks and maybe most importantly the fact that this property is designated as medium
density residential and we are trying to accomplish the Comprehensive Plan's goals. The
transition that has been provided here provides that perfect mix that addresses those
case specific factors and there was a request from several of the neighbors to put this in
writing. We couldn't agree more. That's why we proposed the conditions of approval that
we did in the written response to the staff report. We tried to be clear. Some of these
were already part of the conditions of approval from the Planning and Zoning Commission
and we ask to reflect the concessions that we were willing to make, that we have
described to the neighbors, and that we have really heard from the neighbors. So, with
that I would stand for questions.
Simison: Thank you, Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I think what -- you know, a comment I have or a question would be if the
school district gave you context for setting their ten year absorption period for this number
of units and the reason I'm asking is it's just common sense. I mean I'm looking at your
development, your development is delivering units into 2023. This is one of the biggest
developments I have seen on Council. Granted I have been here for a short time. So, it
is my first rodeo, but I'm thinking, well, you are -- you know, you are delivering your units
in a time frame that makes sense from an internal rate of return perspective for your equity
investors. So, it just doesn't -- I guess did they give you context for why they would take
a ten year period? And, again, I apologize, because it really shouldn't be your
responsibility to explain the school district's projections, but if you have additional color
on that I would be curious to hear it.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Strader, I will do my best with what I know and I
don't try to speak for the school district, but we have learned from meetings from them,
but also from their facilities plan and I think that they project over the ten year period,
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because you don't know exactly how fast developments are going to build out. You don't
even know if all preliminary platted lots will be final platted and built. You have families at
different stages and there is an in and out through the school district as well as new
students come in and others leave and so I -- but what I had cited to in the facilities plan
I think is sort of the ground truthing where they looked at a 20 year average and came up
with 927 new students in the entire district and so they are planning for that facilities plan
was to plan for a thousand new. So, they increased it somewhat. I suspect the next time
they come out with a new facilities plan that may be updated further. But they are planning
to accommodate that much and that appears to be about what they are getting. I guess
I -- one other point. I would remind you, if you -- if you recall the slide we looked at earlier
where we had asked the school district for their current preliminary plats and it's just
information that you often ask for, Council Member Strader, and when you looked at that
number and applied that same formula, it was -- and you divide it over ten years, it was
1,107 students per year. So, not far off from the thousand target. So, that -- it seems to
be playing out that way in their planning, in their 20 year history average, and what they
have got before them right now with growth. Those are the points that I can -- I can -- I
think that are responsive to your question, but I would welcome follow up if I didn't answer
you.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I guess just a comment. I think just from where I'm sitting there is a total
mismatch and I'm missing something. Clearly I'm missing -- I'm missing some
information. We are working on it. You know, our own Planning staff is showing 7,500
units that are approved and entitled, that -- that I think they expect to be delivered in a
two to three year time frame in the city from other information I have seen and I guess it's
just -- I know we are working on this and I'm happy that this planner is starting soon, Mr.
Mayor, to help work on this. This is a big sticking point for me. I will just be really up front.
This is a big sticking point for me and I -- I'm just -- I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping
my head around a projection that I'm hearing kind of via a game of telephone and no
offense, ma'am, but from an applicant telegraphed from the school system who hasn't
even done our own planning staff the courtesy of having that direct conversation -- and I
really -- I have an issue with that. It's not your issue specifically, but, unfortunately, you
are -- you are certainly going to be impacted by it from -- just from my seat, how I'm
looking at it. Thanks.
Simison: And just to put-- I mean the -- it was a district wide number. There are definitely
pockets of the district which absorb a majority that at any point in time based upon where
that number is. Could be in Eagle. Could be in north Meridian. Could be a south
Meridian. So, the absorption rate differs. It's probably not in the area around Locust
Grove and Fairview right now. I think we could all agree on that. Council, any other
questions for the applicant?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Ms. Nelson, thanks for your -- your update to us, kind
of just articulating a little bit about the time frame. I recognize you do this on a -- on a
fairly regular basis and, obviously, some of the neighbors this is something that -- that is
not a regular occurrence for them and so I think at least you articulating that piece to me
was helpful. I know that piece is something Council has -- has wrestled with a lot and we
received public testimony today and we have really wanted to invite the public the ability
to provide testimony up until the 11th hour and maybe we have got to find a better
mousetrap to allow for testimony, but for the public to be able to testify on what's going to
be before Council. But that's -- that's a conversation for another day. Ms. Nelson, my
question was -- you touched a little bit about one story heights and I can't recall what lots
were only going to be one story and as you probably well know, Ms. Nelson, we don't --
we don't condition height in Meridian, we -- sorry. We don't condition stories in Meridian,
we condition height, and so getting some understanding about what that height maximum
is going to be for those single stories -- proposed single stories would be helpful for me.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I probably need my development team to
answer what a single story building height is or Sonya maybe knows. Is it 35 feet?
Whatever your standard is for that is what they mean by that. They are not trying to push
the envelope on whatever the standard single story is. On the agreement was to provide
60 percent along the perimeter of the R-2. At staff's request we delineated that. We
selected the -- the properties that were directly in front of the view shed of the existing
homes to best improve their views and, you know, that -- that's what we have proposed.
Six single story through that R-2 perimeter. And I think that -- I do have a slide for that if
that would be helpful, but we have identified exactly which -- which lots just so it could be
very clear.
Cavener: And it looks like your team is kind of assembling to find that for us, so thank
you. I remember seeing the slide.
Nelson: Here it is. One back. Two back. Here we go. All of the red lots are single story
and they do line up with the view angles of the existing homes looking towards the distant
hills.
Cavener: Thank you.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, a question for Ms. Nelson.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Ms. Nelson, while we are on that topic of the half acre lots in the single story,
what is the -- the distance from the back of the house to the property line to the west or
southwest where -- where those half acre lots are located?
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Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, those properties have significant setbacks
for their homes. They range from over 200 feet to over 400 feet. I can give you specific
distances. To our -- to our west there are well over 200 feet for the Robertsons and the
Reinhimers. For the Lins 288 feet. For the Martins 385 feet. The Randalls 209 feet. So,
that -- that goes along the west and the southwest. So, that the homes are significantly
set back, which is one of the existing circumstances that we suggest is very appropriate
when you are thinking about how you might provide transition.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: And I want to make sure -- does that include their property from the back of the
house of the half acre lot to the property line is in some instances 200 feet or is that 200
feet from the back of their house to the back of the other house?
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, the numbers I gave you are the numbers
between their house and the property line. On our property we have agreed to increase
the setback to double the required setback from 15 feet to 30 feet. You know, obviously,
we can't meet rural county estate planning types of setbacks, but between the two of them
they create significant distance between the homes.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, to follow-up, a comment and question -- another question that --
yeah. I thought I had heard that it was doubled to 30 feet, but, then, I heard these longer
distances and I just wanted to be certain I knew where the longer distances took place.
Earlier on when you first did your -- your opening, you provided for me the slide that
showed other approved developments and there was a development that was across on
the east side of Linder Road, partly to the southeast of the property, and one of my
concerns has been about being on the fringe and out there and the capacity for city
services -- it costs more the farther out you go adds to the --
Weatherly: Council Member Hoaglun, I think you went on mute.
Hoaglun: Sorry about that. But I -- now I know the feeling. Where did I leave off?
Nelson: You were talking about the extension services to this area.
Hoaglun: Yeah. The extension services just does cost more and I found in my reading
where it talked about on the west side this is a mile to -- to the south of -- well, a mile to
the north is the nearest annexed property for the City of Meridian. Can -- can you explain
to me how you don't feel that this is leap frog development when -- you know, especially
in light of Deputy Chief Bongiorno's discussion of there is only one access and there is
an access to Victory, although looking at this -- this slide I don't see what that access is
like. Typically we prefer more orderly growth, that it's contiguous and moves outward.
This jumps over and, then, you have got a big gap and, in fact, it -- it connects to -- to
nothing. So, explain to me how -- how you don't feel that's leap frog development.
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Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, thank you for the question. I might just --
I guess on the annexation we are contiguous to city limits across Linder from the
development that the city has approved on the east side and so we do qualify for
annexation under the standards set forth in your zoning code. As far as what you have
planned, we are also within the area of impact. We are within the area that you have
planned, even as recently as a few months ago when you have updated your
Comprehensive Plan, still calling for this area to have medium density residential and so
this is within the area that the city plans to have developed at this density. The services
here I think are really what makes this location so great. We are -- we are maybe closer
to the fire station than any new property could be and so not only do we have that excellent
proximity, but, you know, this is going to provide the rooftops that has the property taxes
that should surround your services to keep them operational and this area -- as I -- I tried
to illustrate with walking through your Comprehensive Plan, is centrally located between
these two key interchanges. It's centrally located between these activity centers that are
along these major corridors. The Ten Mile area specific plan area is not an
underdeveloped area, that area is developing with commercial and unemployment -- or,
excuse me, with employment centers and we can provide the homes and the residents
to go and serve in those employment centers and to cater to those commercial
businesses. This is exactly what you called for here when you thought about how to
develop and in some ways this part of your city is closer in to your downtown core than
stretching out to further reaches of your northwest and your southeast core that are
becoming the furthest reaches of your city. So, we understand that it is on the edge of
your currently annexed property, that is just the definition of being --you know, as seeking
annexation, that we are, by definition, outside of your current city limits. But we do ask
you to follow your Comprehensive Plan and what you set forth to do with this property.
You have got an applicant before you that is willing to invest in this based on your
Comprehensive Plan to provide a very nice master planned development that can happen
when you have acreage available like this. It provides a great opportunity to get this kind
of layout and design and mix of housing and amenities. So, those are all factors I hope
you will take into account when you think about this location and this request.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Council Member Hoaglun, can you hear me, buddy? Brad, can you hear me?
Simison: He's muted. Councilman Hoaglun, you are muted right now.
Hoaglun: Yeah. I kept pushing my thing up and my mute button disappeared, so -- I can
hear you, Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Okay. Good. I will continue. I don't doubt that this development is potentially
going to look nice and has great amenities and is going to -- I have no doubt that Toll
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Brothers would sell these homes, honestly. I do -- I do have some concerns and I -- and
I wanted to express these concerns before we close the public hearing, so that you have
the chance to--to make comments. My first concern is rural roads and that ACHD doesn't
plan to do anything with these roads until 2031 or '35. There is, obviously, a concern with
the -- the lot transition between -- with R-2 development and the estate lots. I certainly
would like to see those lots be bigger in transition. Access scares me a hair in regard to
what Deputy Chief Bongiorno specified earlier, but, ultimately, I agree one hundred
percent with Council Member Hoaglun and his comments about leap frog development.
Ultimately, we have -- we have created two areas within our city where we are wanting to
grow and that's in northwest Meridian and southeast Meridian and, obviously, we are
focusing on in-fill development as a priority as well. I don't feel like this development,
obviously, fits in that -- in these locations. It's certainly not in-fill. At the end of the day I
-- I would consider this to be fringe development and there is a lot of problems with fringe
-- fringe development. So, whether it be safety, whether it be a lot of different things,
infrastructure, et cetera. So, those are my concerns and I will let Deb respond. Thank
you.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Bernt, thanks for your comments and I particularly
appreciate the opportunity to respond and kind of you to put that out when the public
record is open. You know, on transportation, I'm looking at Linder, you know, you
commented that is a rural road, but -- I mean that's the benefit of this kind of development
coming in is that, you know, we are going to improve Linder Road. Building the half street
on our side out to full width and adding the pedestrian and bike and safety, the multimodal
improvements along that entire frontage, and so Linder will be, you know, ahead of
schedule in the way it's improved because of the investment from this community -- this
developer. The impact fees that will be paid by this developer, based on the current lot
count of 322, is still over a million dollars and so that -- that makes development pay for
itself and really leads, you know, as needed to the infrastructure that you are referencing
here. We have already touched on some of the emergency services and the proximity.
We are within five minutes to the police response. We are three minutes from the fire.
Those are the types of infrastructure concerns and service concerns that I think you are
getting at when you are worried about fringe development when you are asking the
questions about whether or not this site is ready to be served. I think it's uniquely situated
to be exactly ready to be served. It has better serviceability from your service providers
than many in-fill locations and not -- and not all development can be in-fill, as laudable as
a goal that that is, it is still only a portion of the type of development that is going to make
Meridian the great city and continue the way it is. You have got plans for a variety of
housing and a variety of price points and Toll Brothers can come in and fulfill a different
niche than you have with in-fill development. So, we -- we ask you to, you know, look at
the infrastructure that is available here, the services that are available here and, you know,
have those facts in mind when you are thinking about whether or not this truly is too far
and think about the -- the quality of the development that could go here. And thank you
for the opportunity to respond.
Bernt: Thanks, Deb.
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Simison: Council, any other questions for the applicant?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Deborah, this -- I don't know who is controlling the slides right now, but the slide
just prior to this one that's on the screen -- that's the one. I think-- you know, Councilman
Hoaglun asked a great question and the -- the leap frog development concern and from
services to the site concern, I think this roadway issue is one of the bigger ones, more so
than police and fire, that I think begs the question that, you know, the property for the half
mile going north is not yet annexed, so for a considerable amount of time, utilizing Linder
Road, which is, you know, two lanes -- it will be improved just along this project site, which
is a big help, but for a good ten to 15 years, perhaps, you have substandard transportation
on Linder Road and because that's a unique issue I will just comment and let you respond,
but I think that's a unique component that makes this feel more leapfrogged, for lack of a
better term, than other ones. Understanding that it's -- it's adjacent to a city -- the city
across the street, the annexation path, but it's not necessarily flowing inside out as
efficiently as it could, because sometimes that raises more challenges than in others. So,
in this one we have got the long delay for winter road improvements all the way to Amity.
The ACHD staff report references at least some concern on site lines -- I understand it is
compliant with -- with the setback references, it's 530 feet in the staff report, but this is
one of the slides that I thought seemed to highlight why Councilman Hoaglun and -- were
concerned with leap frog development in a less than efficient and orderly way that we
grow. The comments from Deputy Chief Bongiorno seem to kind of exacerbate those
concerns, if, for some period of time -- because you don't control the properties around it
--you have them really coming in and out of Linder Road, which isn't going to be improved
for a decade or so. So, that's what I thought more so than police and fire service. One
of the biggest challenges that you are confronting when trying to address why this project
which is beautiful, is appropriate at this location and at this time.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, thank you again for the opportunity to
respond to that. I guess the key thing I am picking up from you -- and I want to -- I want
to focus on it. When you were talking about, yes, we are going to improve Linder along
our site, but, then, there is the rest of Linder and it's a long way out in ACHD's plans. It's
going to remain a rural roadway. I guess a couple of facts that I think are just critical to
understand about that. In ACHD's report, which I know you have read, they determined
that Linder Road, even with our development, it's still meeting level of service standards.
It still has sufficient capacity. So, yes, it is not yet a widened, improved road all the way
through and it doesn't need to be for some time. So, I think that's the important thing to
understand. We -- we are not causing that existing infrastructure to need more
improvement than what we are currently providing along our frontage. We will be
providing a southbound right turn lane and all of the frontage along our property, which
expedites the improvements to Linder, and where we are not providing -- and as you
noted to -- to our north, it doesn't need it to accommodate our trips. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
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Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I think on that -- just an interesting observation on that response, because we
see so many applications, but that -- on an individual basis every application has a staff
report, which says every application has road improvements that adequately address
project traffic and all background traffic, which would make one believe that in every
application every project adequately addresses all traffic, but yet there is traffic problems.
So, that's what I think begs some of the questions on these applications is there is some
disconnect, because everybody has a staff report which says every road can handle all
the traffic that's being generated, yet we still get confronted with -- with enormous
challenges with traffic problems. That's what led to some of the question on this one.
Because you are right, I mean the report does reflect exactly what you said, but it just
makes us scratch your head sometimes when report after report says the road
improvements as required adequately address all traffic, including background traffic,
and, yet, here we are.
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, a fair question. I can tell you, though, that I
have been involved with a number of applications that have had significant mitigation
requirements. But I think also -- maybe more to your point, it's a reflection of ACHD's fair
process to adopt an impact fee and because they adopt impact fees, then, they have
planned improvements that are funded with those impact fees and case in point -- you
know, we haven't gotten to this yet, because we have just been talking about Linder, but
the intersection to our north at Linder and Victory is currently in ACHD's CIP to be
expanded to a roundabout in the 2021 to 2025 time frame. So, sooner than other
employees needed in this area. And they -- and they cause development to pay their fair
share through impact fees, which here is more than a million dollars. So, it's not that we
don't have mitigation, it's just spread -- is distributed fairly through impact fees and
because that's a programmed improvement that ACHD already has planned, I'm sure
they would allocate our impact fees in that direction. I also just want to point out that we
are not the only developing property out here and there is interest from other properties
in this very area to develop and Meridian, like other areas, has a housing -- has shortage
of houses and a high demand for housing. The property to our immediate north where
our -- a third emergency access point is has had pre-application meetings with the city
and expects to come in soon. So, this isn't an isolated one off. I think all of these other
developers are looking at the opportunities with the existing infrastructure and services.
The same corridor issues that we are highlighting that create the opportunities being
between Ten Mile, Meridian, and Linder is a fast developing corridor that people are
excited about and so we won't be the only ones that are looking to act on the
Comprehensive Plan for this area.
Borton: Okay. I appreciate that.
Simison: Council, any additional questions or comments? Or do I have a motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
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Borton: Just two -- two more questions. One is the school district's facility plan -- and I
thought I would find reference to it in some of the applications, but I didn't. It shows a
school district site -- a 66 acre high school site -- listed as though they own it and it's
exactly where this project is. A high school. And I was just surprised it didn't come up. I
mean it's on this northwest corner of Linder and Amity. Did that come up in any
conversations?
Nelson: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, yes, it did and I failed to mention it in my --
trying to race through my rebuttal, because in my primary testimony I mentioned that I
believe there was a high school and elementary site near and, then, you indicated you
saw that in the facility plan. In fact, my -- my clients confirmed for me in discussions with
Joe Borton there is a high school and an elementary site together at Ten Mile and north
of Amity. So, very near this site.
Borton: Yeah.
Nelson: The school district has already acquired the land as you noted.
Borton: Okay. That's the 66 acre parcel.
Nelson: Yes.
Borton: Okay. That's all, Mr. Mayor. Thank you.
Simison: Council Woman Strader, did you have a follow up? Okay? Is there anything
else or a motion from Council?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I'm not quite sure where this body wants to go -- tonight of maybe our last item
on -- previous item on our agenda, opening and closing the public hearing, I don't know
if Council wants to discuss things a little bit before we close the public hearing. I know
we have done a little of that, the way things are going. Food for thought.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor? As a note, I do notice Denise has her hand raised again. I just
wanted to bring that to your attention.
Simison: Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I will see if Council wants to take any
additional testimony from the public, since we are in applicant wrap up element.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Personally I feel that I personally have all the information necessary to make my
decision and I am perfectly happy to proceed under Councilman Cavener's suggestion of
discussing if it makes more sense prior to closing the public hearing these days or after.
Either way. Just -- that's just for me. But I don't have any further questions at this time.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I'm okay. I don't have any questions. I'm okay to close the public hearing. I guess
we just -- I punt to Councilman Cavener, Council Member Borton and Hoaglun just to get
their thoughts.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I'm supportive either way. Just -- we do have a good history of
opening and closing or closing and reopening public hearings. That's all.
Bernt: That's happened once or twice, that's for sure.
Hoaglun: I'm fine with closing, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Mr. Borton, how about yourself? Are you --
Borton: I'm fine to proceed either way. If anyone wants to provide comment now, then,
by all means.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I will -- I will -- I will give my opinion that I am at and maybe some more color for
people. And, I'm sorry, took my mask off, but, man, that thing is rubbing on my ear right
now I'm just going to get these thoughts out and put it right back on. I -- personally I am
not supportive of this application at this time. My philosophy on the Comprehensive Plan
is that it is a long term destination of where we are going. It doesn't mean we have to get
there in a short time frame. I think we want to proceed in our priority growth areas. I do
not consider this an in-fill development. Personally, even before I joined City Council,
had provided an opinion that I thought we still needed a rural designation and I respect
the previous Council's decision not to go there, but I do feel that a one acre transition
makes sense when you are talking about properties that are of this size. I am very
frustrated about the -- just confusion with West Ada School District. I will just leave it at
that. I -- we really need to work on that and get on the same page. I do know -- common
sense tells me that these developments are not coming in ten years. They are coming in
two to three years. It just doesn't make sense to me. Even our own information that we
have doesn't align well with that. So, I would encourage further dialogue with the school
district. I also feel like it's really also the roads for me and that really resonated with me.
I don't feel like these rural roads are ready for a development of this size and with that
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development from ACHD so far into the future, I think we need to wait. To me it's not the
right time. I have no doubt that this developer would do an absolutely beautiful job, but
we are a debt free city, we don't need to rush, we can afford to take our time and I don't
think -- yeah, I just -- I don't support moving forward on this one, because I don't feel that
it's orderly growth. That's it for me.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Happy to chime in with -- with my opinions. I'm not in love with this project as
presented. I think Council Member Strader touched on what I think is a big component
of this project, which is those one acre lots and they have got to be there to provide that
transition and I know that was something we -- as a Council Member who did approve the
previous Comprehensive Plan that was something I was really really sensitive to is our
folks that have -- they haven't been part of the Meridian city limits, but have been part of
Meridian for a long time and as the city continues to grow that we provide a meaningful
transition. I appreciate what the applicant's done to try and mitigate that. I just think there
is more to do. That said, you know, we -- I guess I talk a lot about creative approach in
building community and this application does it for me. This is a place where I think
anyone in Meridian would be proud to call home. I -- I appreciate the concern about the
roads, but with the increasing demands in road construction in Ada county, specifically
Star, Kuna, south Boise, growth is going to be the places that are going to drive roadway
improvements and so we can continue to wait for the roads to be improved out there and
I think we will be waiting for a long period of time. In our previous application we talked
about Linder and Franklin and what that's going to look like in ten to 20 years and I guess
I'm looking at this place as well as what it's going to look like in ten to 20 years and with
the Linder Road overpass, those road improvements will quickly follow. The biggest hang
up is -- is that million dollar question that nobody seems to have a clear answer on is -- is
the impact on our schools. Candidly, I think the phasing plan is a little aggressive. For
the impact on our schools. If Council indicates there is some support to -- or to approve
this application, you may -- I would be supportive of having a conversation about what
that phasing plan looks like, so that we are not overburdening our schools. But overall I
think that this is a really well thought out application for our community.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I do have to say this would be a very nice development someday, but not today.
There is disagreement with folks out there right now over half acre versus acre. You
know, those are things that we could probably fix with -- well, what's the berm going to
look like, what's the fence going to look like, how much landscaping and do some things
like that. But overall -- and I know, Ms. Nelson, you know, talked about the -- meeting the
intent of the annexation is contiguous across the street and, you know, there is intent and,
then, there is the spirit of the law and it just -- when I first went through this and reading
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about it, that-- that just kept bugging me -- because it's just too soon for this location right
here and there has been some good discussion about the -- about the road systems. You
know, I think of one roundabout where Ada County Highway District has put in the
roundabout, it's there, I'm sure they are proud of it, over there on the Oaks area off of --
on McMillan Road and semi trucks are -- to Walmart and back on these rural roads and it
really doesn't work. Yeah, we do have a nice roundabout there, but the roads are
unimproved, there is no sidewalks, it's -- it's very tight, congested, and same thing would
happen here with a roundabout without -- and -- and there is future development there.
There is--setbacks are going to be there, everything is going to be there, but the money's
not there to do it yet, so -- and that's -- that's a concern with this going out here at that
location -- I know there is future applications that will probably come in for some of the
land to the north and as that come -- comes in I just feel that's a more orderly way to go,
instead of approving this out here and, then, possibly having something to the northwest
tag into that corner and, then, something further to the west and all of a sudden you have
this -- a lot of property in the middle that's going to be in-fill some day and we have a lot
of that in Meridian here and there and as a Council we have faced those challenges of
trying to fit in-fill development with existing development and it's -- it's really hard. So, I
would prefer to see more orderly growth coming out to this. It is a good project. I have
no doubt that it would be a very very nice development. But I think it's just a little ahead
of its time at this location.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I'm not going to go into much detail. I have already given my thoughts. But to be
quite simple, I think that I'm picking up what Council Member Hoaglun is putting down.
His thoughts are exactly my thoughts. I couldn't have expressed them clearer, so --
Simison: Council, are we at a place where you would like to close the public hearing or
other direction? And I don't want to deprive Mr. Borton of speaking, but --
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I move we close the public hearing on Item H-2020-0012.
Strader: Second.
Simison: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed
nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate the thoughtful comments from my colleagues. Appreciate the
application. I think I have got a good sense about where the Council lies on this and so
with that, Mr. Mayor, I move that we deny Item 5-C, application H-2020-0012 for the
following reasons: Lack of -- lack of transition between the neighbors. Concern about
emergency access. Long-standing impacts to the school district. Roadway challenges.
And overall inconsistency with Meridian's growth plans.
Strader: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not,
clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
absent.
Simison: All ayes. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Council, we are to Item No. 6 on the agenda, future meeting topics. Is there
anything for this item? If not I would take another motion.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting this evening.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. Is there any discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes
have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:23 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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7 / 20 2020
_ MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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