Loading...
2020-06-30 Budget Workshop C� E V1 PIIN CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING AGENDA City Council Chambers 33 East Broadway Avenue Meridian, Idaho Tuesday,June 30, 2020 at 8:00 AM Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance x Jessica Perreault x Joe Borton x Brad Hoaglun x Treg Bernt x Liz Strader x Luke Cavener x Mayor Robert E. Simison Item 2: Adoption of Agenda -Adopted Item 3: City Council: Fiscal Year 2021 Budget Workshop Discussion Item 4: Executive Session for the specific purpose of deliberating on a labor contract offer or to formulate a counteroffer as permitted under Idaho Code Section 74-206A(1)(a) In to Executive Session: 11:58 am Out of Executive Session: 12:42 pm Item 5: City Council: Continued Fiscal Year 2021 Budget Workshop Discussion Meeting Adjourned at 1:45 pm Meridian City Council Budget June 30, 2020. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 8:02 a.m., Tuesday, June 30, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Liz Strader _X_ Joe Borton _X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt X Jessica Perreault _X Luke Cavener _X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: We will call this meeting to order. For the record it is Tuesday, June 30th at 8:02. We will begin this meeting with roll call attendance. Item 2: Adoption of Agenda Simison: Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we adopt the agenda as published. Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed nay. The ayes have it. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. Item 3: City Council: Fiscal Year 2021 Budget Workshop Discussion Simison: With that we will move on to No. 3, City Council fiscal year 2021 budget workshop discussion. I'm going to go ahead and kick this off with a few comments and, then, I will turn this over to Todd and let him and Brad lead us from there. Just as a reminder, when I delivered the budget proposal to you it was what I thought was in the Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 5 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 2 of 84 best long term for the city. It does not take the three percent. It does provide for our employees, especially in light of what the CPI currently is. It does not jeopardize our long term future needs, which includes things that have already been approved by the City Council for development that we need to take into consideration that even if you don't approve anymore development will continue to be a need in the coming years. From here on out I'm going to say you guys own the budget for whatever decisions you make today. I don't plan on speaking much. I will -- I will engage if you want me to, but for the most part I will be here to listen and see what the outcome of your decisions are. Is it perfect? No. Are there things that I can absolutely support coming out? Yes. Putting more things in, that's where I have the hardest trouble with the budget is if we -- if we expand beyond where we are currently, putting more items into the budget. If you increase the base of operations I encourage you to find corresponding cuts to the base, either through not funding enhancements or -- or finding other ways to cut in order to keep us flat to allow for our long term needs. But with that I will say let's have -- have a good day. I'm wearing the Spirit off 1776 to make sure that the -- America is not under attack from that standpoint, but in all reality I appreciate you all and look forward to the conversation. With that I will turn it over to Todd. Lavoie: Thanks, Robert. Good morning, everybody. Appreciate everyone taking time out of their busy day to work on workshop number two for the city. I'm going to lay out some, you know, expectations, casual like we had last time, so, Jessica, if you have questions just go, hey, I have questions. We won't get too formal. We put this room together so you guys can have that formal -- or informal dialogue, so, please, just jump in. We want you guys to engage each other. Subject matter experts are throughout the room. As we discussed last time if you do ask us a question and we don't have it right at our fingertips, we will do our best to get it done before you leave today. I will work on it. We have subject matter experts throughout the city. Our goal here today is to leave this room with a balanced budget, so we can propose it to the citizens for consideration. We will give it to the citizens for a number of weeks to allow them to digest the budget as we propose to them and, then, later in August we will have a public hearing based on the information that we decide here today. In the August public hearing we cannot increase the budget based on the values that we establish here today, but you can reduce the budget based on the values that we establish today. So, when we leave this office we want to make sure we have the budget where we believe it's going to be balanced and where we want to propose to the citizens, but in August you do have the right to reduce the value of the budget at that time. Today's workshop is getting really dialogue for you guys to engage us, engage each other, ask questions and we appreciate all the questions you have sent to us so far. We have tried to answer them in a timely fashion. Hopefully you guys have had the opportunity to read the responses. We are here to answer any questions for you, along with all the fellow staff members. With that I'm going to hand it over to Brad, he's going to kind of give you an idea of what we are going to do today. So, with that, Brad. Purser: Thanks, Todd. Really simple agenda. We are going to start off by talking about compensation. I know that's been a hot button item over the last few weeks, so we want to begin with that. Once we have that nailed down we can move forward and begin talking Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 6 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 3 of 84 about the different funds. We will start with the Enterprise Fund after we have nailed down compensation. Then we will go into our Community Development and, then, we will end with our General Fund. From a format standpoint -- sorry. My plan is -- or our plan is to --when we get to the funds will ask, you know, for Enterprise Fund, are we good or do you have any questions about the overall base budget and if there are any questions we can ask -- you can ask those. If there are no questions, then, we will move to replacements -- if there are any replacements about that specific fund and we will -- we will discuss those and if there are none or once we finish with those we will, then, move forward with any budget requests and, then, we can go through any budget request questions that you have. If you don't have any questions, then, we can move forward and move to the next item, which, you know, after Enterprise Fund would be Community Development. We will follow the same format. Any questions? Thoughts? Concerns? Borton: Is this typically like the format that Council follows to finalize this? Lavoie: Yes. That doesn't mean we can't change it. Purser: Yeah. Borton: Okay. Lavoie: This is your time. This is your budget workshop for you guys to leave this room with a balanced budget at the end of the day. This is the format that we have used in the past to allow you guys the opportunity to dialogue amongst each other and the subject matter experts in the room. Purser: If you have questions, please -- please answer -- or ask them, we will get the answers. Borton: I guess we are just talking freely in this format, so -- but historically we have used this -- there has been so much work, understandably, that's gone in the seven months prior to today, that it's not--we are not creating our own six budgets and moving 45 things and trying in this meeting to establish what each of us thinks should be our -- a different budget necessarily; right? It's historically been more high level, big principle here or there, but this is a budget that builds off last year's budget and builds off all the work that we have done over seven months to try and get here. So, I don't think -- it's not the invitation to us to try and reinvent what has been done, but to try and address some broader loose ends that weren't addressed following last workshop. Is that fair? Lavoie: Fair. Purser: Fair. Thank you. Any other comments? Questions? Strader: Maybe just one more thing. I think it would be helpful, because I'm still new, as we are going through each of the funds if you could just point out the loose ends that are Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 7 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 4 of 84 open discussion items, so that we can resolve them as we go. I don't want to get past something and go, oh, I forgot and that was in the Enterprise Fund or -- Purser: Right. Strader: That would be helpful for me. Perreault: When we get to General Fund we are going to go department by department or is it just going to be kind of a free for all? Purser: We can -- we can begin from the top, you know, if we are talking General Fund we will talk clerks, if there is anything we want to talk about that. Then we will -- we can work department by department, that's fine. Perreault: Okay. Purser: Okay. With that let's -- let's talk compensation. I know what we have currently in the budget based on our last discussion was a one time 500 dollar per employee merit. You know, if we want to keep that or if we want to change that, I will open up the discussion for you guys to ask questions, whatever we need to do. Bernt: Are we addressing the Mayor or are we just -- Simison: No. Just talk among ourselves. Bernt: All right. Talk. Talk. Talk. Thank you. So, there is -- we talked a little bit about this and one of the -- I have talked to some other Council Members about this as well. I wanted to start a conversation on maybe upping that -- that merit pay bonus one time pay to a thousand dollars per employee and what that looks like. I'm wondering what your thoughts are as a -- as a Council. Borton: Mr. Mayor-- habit. I think -- if-- if-- I can get on board with the Mayor's proposal of doing that this year, but I agree with increasing it. I think that amount probably is a more appropriate figure for that type of program for this year. Bernt: Okay. And -- and to clarify this wouldn't include the STEP plan folks or -- or Fire, just the non-first responder employees or does it include everyone? Perreault: Could you speak up? Bernt: So, the question I had was -- just to clarify, would that include all employees or would that include the non-Police and Fire employees? Borton: Here is how I would answer for myself is I think the way that -- that the budget's been developed and how it allocated that compensation component just doubled in the same -- in the manner in which you have it set up. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 8 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 5 of 84 Bernt: Okay. Yeah. Borton: I think it was about 260,000 spread among the departments. I think STEP plan was different. Bernt: Separate. Borton: Yeah. Separate. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? It's actually a question for you. Can you help us understand how you got to the 500 dollar number? What -- is that -- I don't think that's something you just grabbed out of thin air. I assume there was some thought as to why that number was decided and I guess I would ask Council Member Bernt the same question, what -- why a thousand versus -- Simison: So, many of you know originally I had nothing in this budget. That was actually where I believed we should be overall. The CPI, last time we checked, was at .8. 1 think that is actually going to drop still over the next eight to 12 months. So, even the question about whether or not -- whether it's a cost of living or anything else is warranted, there is a big question mark I think on that as to the why from that standpoint. But in my conversations with Council it was clear that they wanted to do something and what I heard from Council was keep them whole. At least from one, maybe two people. So, based upon that we looked primarily at the cost of changes that were likely to -- that employees would occur from our healthcare costs going up. So, we took that number for a family, looked to see what that increase amount might be, if there were no changes to that person, how much would be needed to offset that cost for that purpose and still leave a little bit extra on top of that and that -- that was generally a 500 dollar, minus taxes, minus the healthcare costs -- works to keep our employees whole at that number. Hoaglun: And, Councilman Bernt, the -- one of the things that -- when I was on Council previously and we were in the middle of that great recession in -- I think it was the 2010 we did that where, you know, it was -- it was -- it was difficult times and money was very very tight. It was not a good thing. And we -- we had worked to try to at least hold the line and keep employees whole and not go backwards. So, that was the impetus and did push the Mayor to say, hey, is there a way we can at least keep them whole and not take a step backwards? And -- and that's the number that I saw that, you know, seemed reasonable to me. So, you know, to increase it, you know, it is extra, what -- what does that do to our funds? Do we find the money from somewhere else, then, to cover that cost? So, I was pleased to see at least that we keep everyone whole in -- in where they are moving forward, so -- Simison: Question, Todd or Brad, if you have the ability -- Crystal. What would be a one percent across the board versus this cost? Lavoie: We can look it up for you. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 9 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 6 of 84 Simison: Yeah. I think -- I think that this goes well beyond the CPI and cost generally. Purser: You want to know overall for everybody? Perreault: Do you have the calculations for the thousand dollars per employee as well? Lavoie: At this moment I do not. It all depends -- Robert's presentation was for all 525 employees. That's inclusive of the Fire union. That's inclusive of the STEP plan. Treg just mentioned that he wants to remove the union and the STEP and so, again, that's a different mathematic. So, we would have to figure out -- I think it's about 115 sworn officers that kind of -- we will go 120 round up. I think there is, what, 77'ish union. So, we will call it 200 employees would be removed. So, we have 525. So, 325 times a thousand. So, 325 -- Perreault: And if I recall correctly, this proposal was made at last budget workshop, but is not in the budget binder that we received, the 500 per employee? Lavoie: That would be correct. We did not put anything as a supporting document. We gave a line item as a proposal, 500 dollars per employee. Perreault: Okay. Lavoie: We did not give any supportive backup for that. Borton: The dollar figure is reflected in that. Purser: It is. Yes. If you look on your budget summary, the first page it's 176,000 for the 500 dollars for the General Fund and, then, we have a corresponding line item for Enterprise Fund and for Community Development. Bernt: And to confirm, I -- I just threw that thought out there. It's not something I was advocating for, just -- Strader: Maybe I will make a quick comment while we are researching the numbers. have really gotten more into researching the three different employee pools. Right? So, the Police STEP plan -- we are not discussing it right now, but it has its own challenge. It seems like getting that from an every two year to every one year in terms of real wages it's lagged behind the other two employee pools. I feel like the union Fire plan is really a separate plan and a separate negotiation. I'm leaning toward the concept of if there is a one time bonus that that makes more sense for the general employee pool and, then, we will handle the other two compensation pools separately. I'm just leaning toward that, because I feel like we are making up some ground between those pools and -- and they are each getting treated differently. I tend to agree we are in a little bit of a deflationary environment; right? We are in a tough environment. I do think it's important for us to do something and -- and I would hate to see someone get no real absolute increase whatsoever. Like we are keeping them whole on their benefits -- yeah, I would be Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 10 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 7 of 84 interested in maybe splitting the difference in between the 500 and a thousand at the most, but I -- I'm tending to be more conservative toward applying that to that sort of general pool and not necessarily the other two, because I think we are going to handle those other two separately. But if that philosophy doesn't make sense to people I'm happy to chat about it. Perreault: I generally agree with Councilman Strader, but I would just like to see the numbers on that once they are calculated and the difference between what's already proposed and what that would look like. Also wondering if-- I assume these -- this bonus will be taxed and if that was taken into account when you were calculating the -- the -- you know, the difference in making up the benefits to make sure that, you know, that -- if it's 500 and they really get 375 or 350 out of it, that that was taken into account as well. Lavoie: To answer the question for the income, the 500 dollar bonus in this case will be treated as normal income. Again, everyone's tax bracket is different. You might be 20 percent. Luke might be two percent. So, to be able to say everyone gets net 375 we would not be able to do that. We would just have to pick a number, because your financial situations might be different than someone else. But it would be regular taxable income. Hoaglun: Todd, you had said something else and this was earlier in the process in FY- 2021 annual merit analysis for the City of Meridian and that covered a half percent, one percent, one and a quarter, 1.5, is that -- yeah. That's the one. Okay. Lavoie: That's the one. So, to answer the question what one percent would cost -- so, we have it on the screen for you. This is inclusive of all employees, which would include the Fire Department union and also the Police Department STEP plan. So, go all the way down to the bottom, I think it was 476 -- 467,000 dollars would represent a one percent cost to the employee base for all employees at this time, which should be, hopefully, what you have on your paper that we handed out. Hopefully. Pretty close. Hoaglun: And what was the total if we do the 500 dollar per employee merit all inclusive? For all employees. Lavoie: I will do that math real quick. Borton: Two sixty-two I think. Hoaglun: Two sixty-two? Lavoie: Well, 500 is -- 525 employees. So, whatever 500 times 525 is. Purser: Yeah. Two sixty-two. Yeah. Lavoie: There you go. Purser; So, double that, obviously, you know, just to have that number. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 11 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 8 of 84 Perreault: So, then, that 176,500 that was proposed was not including Police and Fire; is that right? Lavoie: Which number? Perreault: The 176,500 that's proposed in the -- Lavoie: That's inclusive of all your employees. Again, this just represents the General Fund, which -- Perreault: Oh, the -- Lavoie: So, there is still the Enterprise Fund and there is the Community Development Department still. Perreault: Okay. Purser: So, overall at 500 dollars it would be 262,000. If that was increased, then, it would be 524,000 if you did like a thousand. If you doubled it, so -- Cavener: Crystal, trying to get a sense as to how many of our employees make under 50,000 a year, because if we do a one percent, then, all those employees that make less than 50,000 will receive less next year, right, than the 500 dollars. And if-- I will speak to -- and where this question is coming from is why I asked the Mayor to kind of explain how he got to the 500 dollars. With the cost of benefits going up for our employees I don't want our employees, especially those that are making less than 50,000 dollars a year, to not be made whole. So, one percent may make sense long term, but for employees next year if that's the only path we head down, there is a chunk of them -- I don't know if it's a third or half or -- Ritchie: I don't have that data for you currently right now, but we can get it for you this morning. Cavener: I think that's just something that's important for us to consider before we make a decision about that one way or another. Borton: I think that was a good -- some of the basis of increasing this amount captures and covers any of the segments that I think you are rightfully referencing. Simison: And just to be clear. Reminder. The employees' portion is one hundred percent covered. It is employees with families where that -- that changed. There are also benefit changes which are going to have a decreasing offset to their daily cost that are in the new benefits that they will receive. So, ultimately, I think that alone is probably going to net out before a salary portion is taken into consideration, because co-pays go from 25 to zero for employees if they go to a doctor that is on the list or it drops to 20. So, I actually believe that long term this year with the benefit changes our employees will be in a better Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 12 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 9 of 84 place than they were starting the year, regardless of a financial change. But they will notice a difference in their paycheck, because the increased costs if they have a family. Purser: Do you want further discussion about -- or do you want to move and maybe get an overall bigger picture of, you know, what the police would look like or -- you know, as far as the STEP plan is concerned? Because that has been another component of this and we can return to it while you think about, you know, 500, 1,000, or whatever that number is. Strader: I think that makes sense. Purser: Will that work? Borton: Sure. Purser: Okay. And, then, you know, if there is any questions or comments, please -- it might be a good idea to have some of our PD to -- to discuss -- up here to -- to help us with that. Unless you have other comments or questions or start talking about the Police STEP plan and what you guys would like to do. Borton: I will jump in to start and we will see where -- if it gets off the rails somewhere and we need some data I guess, but we heard presentations at our last workshop and, then, we heard again at a separate workshop -- a budget workshop and, then, a separate workshop kind of the mechanics and history with regards to the Police STEP land in prior years and what led up to this year. I have been --just to kind of cut to the chase on this, what I think is an appropriate answer to these two questions is adjusting the Mayor's market proposal to a thousand. I agree with Council Woman Strader's idea of excluding -- because they are being addressed elsewhere -- excluding the Fire union and the Police STEP plan from it and, then, I have made known that I think the -- the 927,000 funding of the Police STEP plan is appropriate in full within this budget and we have heard the explanation of how we got there and for -- it's just a matter of a decision on what we think should happen and should be in this budget. I think there is funds for it and we will get to that page as we get further along. That's -- that's what I think is -- balancing all the considerations, the appropriate compensation answer for fiscal year 2021. Cavener: Joe, do you mind walking us through the -- maybe at a high level about how the -- if the funds there in your mind where are those funds coming from, those two -- Borton- Sure. So -- I mean I guess they are -- they are separate considerations. One, is that the right answer? If you think that figure is what is the appropriate compensation level for these employee groups, you -- you jump off and answer that first and I think the answer is yes. So, now can we find the revenue to do what's right? I think we can. think one of the main items when we get there -- and I don't know if we need to get there at this stage or if we are going to get later -- I think the line item for transportation funding of a million, I think that should come out. I think that should be addressed at a later date if and when an opportunity arises for a transportation project where there could be cost Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 13 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 10 of 84 sharing and an appropriate reimbursement agreement that's what we can do. We customarily haven't included placeholder line items in budgets. I get the intent and I think there is probably good support if and when that opportunity arises, but the placeholder within a budget is one big starting area that can assist funding. I think adjustments in our revenue that we learned at our last workshop provide additional revenue, but it's -- I think it's -- it is such a critical component of this budget and this came up last year and it comes up every now and then that if it's necessary to raise revenue to ensure that the appropriate compensation goes to the employees, then, we do that and I think that's defendable to the community. I don't think you have to. I think when it-- and for illustration, if something like that was plugged into this spreadsheet through this process this morning, we can make those adjustments and see what, if any, is necessary. If we need new revenue or if there are other cuts from any of the Council that would also cover that gap. Cavener: So, it sounds like you are supportive of using some fund balance -- Borton: Yep. Cavener: -- I mean the million dollars for transportation -- Borton: Yes. Cavener: -- if you take that, plug that right back into the fund balance, so -- Borton: Yes. Cavener: Okay. Borton: And we have done that in prior years on occasion. Cavener: We have. Yes, we have. Perreault: So, yesterday I had an opportunity to chat with Crystal and Brad to get up to date on everything that -- I did watch the -- the work session from last week and, then, had a conversation with them to get up to date on everything that's been discussed in my absence last week and in my conversation -- I would like to invite Crystal to come back up if she's able. In my conversation with her she mentioned that in order to bring the positions in the Police Department that are not within market range, that we would not need to use that full 927,000 dollars and so I don't know if she was able to actually look at exact figures, but we did have a conversation about it being quite a bit less than that and so -- I didn't see anything via the e-mails that really broke that 927 down. I think it was a percentage. Was it five percent -- Purser: It was about five percent. Perreault: -- increase across the board; is that right? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 14 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 11 of 84 Purser: I believe it was about five. You guys can keep me honest on that, it was about five percent. Perreault: Okay. So, are you comfortable sharing with them what you shared with me yesterday? Ritchie: Can you hear me? Okay. So, I'm referencing that -- thank you. So, I'm referencing the e-mail that you sent out yesterday that you had the conversation with -- okay. Thank you. So, I believe in reference to the e-mail that you are referring to based on the conversation you had with HR and Finance yesterday, there was an e-mail that went out in regards to a fourth option, which would be for about 425,000 dollars that according to this would be applied to only the areas of the STEP plan that are out of market based on this information that came from the Finance Department, which you see right here. I didn't bring this -- Hoaglun: While you are looking that up I want to ask Brad or Todd -- there was that compensation options for the FY-21 budget that -- for the Police STEP plan in the amount of 1.1 million and, then, they gave three options on how to cover that cost and I'm hearing the 927 figure. Is that the -- Lavoie: Fair question, Brad. So, what we have here is the Police Department, HR Department, conducted an analysis of the PD STEP plan in different scenarios. So, Joe is referencing a five percent option. You saw from me I think a 1.1 or 1 .0. That is the six percent option. Hoaglun: Okay. Lavoie: So, we are throwing different numbers out at you, because there are different options. We need to determine what is the best option. Now, you are hearing a fourth option of 420 something. So, again, sorry for all the numbers going around, but there are -- they did conduct I think five different scenarios in the analysis. So, you are just hearing five versus six -- now a different one. Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you. Lavey: Todd, I will just clarify, too, it's not 927, it's 929. So, that's -- that figure you see on their for option two, that's the true figure. We did 927 from our head last week. That's the true figure though, so -- so, when you hear 927, it actually should be 929,074. Purser: I don't know if you guys want to provide more context behind what's included. I know there was -- Lavey: Sure. Purser: -- a compression, things like that. I will let you -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 15 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 12 of 84 Stokes: Yeah. So, the -- the 425,000 data point, that shows you -- that's the result of kicking the can down the road, the compression issues at the top of the scale and not being responsive to the scale by only going every other year. So, that's -- that's to get us to the point where, then, we start to make an adjustment for our employees. So, what -- what that represents is the -- the correction to -- to the structure of that STEP plan and, then, we move forward and I think what's really representative to me looking at that number is we can't go back in time, but if we have made some different decisions in the past you can see how much more that those other numbers -- how low those other numbers would be and I think that's what's important and why it's up there. That's all that represents is just getting us to the point where we can start to move forward with all the things we have already talked about, the -- using the old data, making adjustments to keep us in the ballpark with our competitors, trying to attract and retain the employees we need, all of those things. If we just hit that -- that option four, that's going to mean the vast majority of that pay scale would see no adjustment for whatever -- 36 months if we didn't address this again, so -- and we know -- we know that number that -- that market number is going to move. It's -- so, we are -- we are trying to anticipate what we need to do and I think we took a very conservative approach when we came up with all of this, working with the consultants, so I think that's what's important about that number. Perreault: If I understand you correctly you are saying that would bring it in range, but not necessarily in a -- in a competitive advantage situation as far as hiring? Stokes: That would get the -- yeah. That would get the STEP plan to where each step there is on equal footing; right? And, then, now we need to make an adjustment for what changes have occurred or will occur in the market. What we want to do to make ourselves more attractive, more competitive. Target that competitive market we established in the last few cycles. That's going to be one of those other numbers. Perreault: So, can you help us understand if the STEP plan doesn't get changed to every year and we stayed every two years, how will these play out? Would we need to do another request for that 425 next year if it was option four, considering that we are trying to play catch up and, then, what would it look like if we took one of the percentages for next year? Stokes: So, again, you know, you never know what -- what the date is actually going to be in the future, but we have a good idea. We can look back. So, if we take one of those other options, that means -- and, then, we come back and look at it again, you are looking at a much smaller adjustment going forward. That's how -- that 425 represents the problem with, you know, not using the data we have been provided from consultants in the past like it -- like it was presented and not adjusting every year -- looking at it every year. That's what that represents. And I -- it's going to be much smaller. But you look at the Police Department STEP plan and that's the largest employee pool and that's why those numbers look good -- that's part of why they look like they do, because it's a big group of employees. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 16 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 13 of 84 Borton: Said another way, the 420 something figure is a figure that could have been utilized in last year's budget discussion, which would have made this year's budget discussion a smaller figure, but last year we kicked the 429 down the road, did zero to the STEP plan, which created the -- the compounded problem to -- to resolve this year. Stokes: Yeah. That's -- that's absolutely correct. And -- and some of the kicking was done last year and the year before and the year before, so it's -- it just shows how it could just keeps compounding. Simison: Council, just so you are aware, it is my intention to bring forward every year the budget I propose along with their corresponding revenue to make that happen. I don't like going to the every other year, because it puts a big black mark in that every other year budget, which makes it difficult. So, we want to -- we want to level this out, just so you know. Lavoie: And as Robert mentioned about revenue and balancing it out, from -- as you guys discussed these compensations, our practice has been in our promotion is to continue to be if you are going to create ongoing expenses we want to have ongoing revenues. We do not want to use one time revenues to pay for ongoing expenses. That's a practice we have established. Again, we just want to continue to promote that. I think that's in the best interest of the fiscal sustainability of the city. Strader: So, I -- maybe just a couple thoughts. So, I looked at this in a lot of detail and agree that every two years makes no sense. There is a lot of appropriation risk for the Police Department, quite frankly, and it's creating a huge timing mismatch, but if-- I guess my -- my question would be you could go seek -- it might take those -- go have someone do this, but if the general employee pool's wages have gone up on average 3.25 percent over the past five years, the Fire was 3.2 percent and Police was 3.05 percent, it's very apparent to me that because of the STEP plan being an every two year issue, that -- that there was trouble keeping up because of this structure. So, at least philosophically I'm trying to look at this like, all right, we are going to -- the general employee pool may not get an increase this year, aside from something to try to keep them whole in their benefits we will discuss. We need to do something structurally to take the Police Department from an every two year type of compensation to an every year compensation, keeping in mind that their market they are really lagging market -- I guess I would be curious in terms of the discussion of funding it -- I will turn to the chief if he's here. You know, I had a good discussion with Finance about this. It was like, well, you know, not that we would take -- I saw Todd's options on funding it. Not that we would take away all of the FTEs that we have already or that we would take away all of the recruiting we are planning to do, but it seems more important to fix our compensation so we can attract new officers and stay competitive. Out of the positions you have are there any that, you know, you have looked at that it seems like, okay, these ones we could wait a year, whether they are positions that are unfilled -- yeah, we can wait a year on two of those. One of those. I just want to get a feel for that. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 17 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 14 of 84 Simison: I was going to tell them what you told me. Do you want me to say it or do you want to say it? Lavey: No. I can say it. But -- because I also believe it was in the executive summary. So, if you look at the executive summary we prioritized that. We put wages as absolute number one and we were willing to forego everything else to get it. That's how passionate about it that we know that it needs to be fixed. So, my recommendation to you would be -- and I have already confirmed this with command staff -- is start at the bottom and work yourself up on -- on the FTEs if you feel that you need to cut FTEs to balance the budget. Strader: And I guess a quick follow up. But just out of the ones that are listed are there a certain number that we could wait a year, in your opinion, that would not affect the level of service dramatically or that would keep us with an adequate level of service? Lavey: Well, actually, we had cut a number of FTEs just to comply with the budget process, because of the extreme amount of growth. The level of demand it has placed upon us, you actually need far more FTEs than you will see. So, that is the bare bones minimum that we felt we needed to continue the -- even to maintain the level of service, not to improve it at all. So, it is going to take effect if we don't fund them, but there is only so much money and we get that as well and we will do what we do best and that's adapt -- be flexible and we will adapt and we will move on. Some of the critical things that you need to be aware of is that --the record specialist, for example, is going to help us comply with state code on public records requests. The city has 600 -- roughly 600 records request for the entire city, excluding the Police Department. The Police Department has an excess of 8,500 and we have certain mandates that we have to follow under state law to comply, which means that everything else is put on hold to get that done. The other thing that we have to do is -- is vehicle impounds. We actually impound about 350 vehicles per year. We have 24 hours to get notice out to them. So, mandated by state law that has to be done. The other thing -- one of the critical positions you are going to see is -- is SRO. We actually have -- we do not have full coverage supervision for SROs in the schools. We have a span of control that is in excess and so the quality of supervision is at risk there as well. So, that's critical. And, then, the CSO position for CID, you actually -- we actually put it to full-time detectives at a much higher rate, but we realized that if we put in a civilian position they could actually do a lot of the workload that doesn't require a sworn officer, so if you remove that position, then, we are back to needing two more detectives. So, it all kind of goes together. But to answer your question is -- is we have put the wages as absolute number one and we are prepared to -- to deal with whatever decisions are made. Strader: And maybe a question for Crystal while I'm on the train of thought. So, you and I had a good discussion yesterday. I have been looking at it like, okay, if we fully funded the police STEP, then, there would be a next year where there would be no increase; right? Because it's this every other year cadence. Is this 927 -- or 912, whatever that amount is that -- is that half of a step? If we were under our -- in other words, if we were in our normal every two year cadence, would that number be the same compared to now Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 18 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 15 of 84 we are moving from every two years is a commitment I think -- hopefully from the City Council to move to every year. Borton: Your question answered it or -- Ritchie: It's green now. Borton: Is it -- it goes to what Berle was talking about. I think if-- if it was split out it would have been -- 429 would have been in the fiscal year '20 budget. Five hundred would be in this fiscal year 2021 budget, which is a single year staff, is that -- Ritchie: Yes. Borton: So, next year's budget -- this doesn't -- this isn't designed to be the two year jump, it's designed basically year two of the two years to get us current. Strader: Got you. Borton: I think. Am I saying that right? Stokes: Yeah. That's correct. And I think -- you know, we don't know, again, what the future holds, but, you know, I would imagine if we make this adjustment now what we are looking at, if we re-examine this next year, is considerably lower, you know. Do I have that number in my -- I don't have that data, but it's -- it's going to be a fraction of that, you know, whatever -- however that market moves would create the number. So, we are probably talking maybe one and a half, two percent. That's generally the terms we like to use. Perreault: I have a question for Council Woman Strader and the police chief regarding the conversation we were just having. So, you primarily address the positions that are proposed in this year's budget, but you had mentioned in the last workshop that there are several positions that are unfilled. Could you address that same -- answer that same question that -- that you mentioned about any positions that could be moved to next year -- would you address the ones that have already been approved by Council, but not -- Lavey: So, that -- that's a fair question as well. There is currently ten openings, but we have nine people slotted to get offers to. So, really, you are only going to get savings of one. But also I would just like to remind you is that we have foregone asking for police officer positions for a number of years. We have also pushed out the CSO positions where we actually could use CSOs in place of police officers several years. The patrol allocation model that we approved -- I think in 2014 here at Council for police officers, at the most conservative data points, says you need five additional police officers today based upon the growth that's been approved. So, it doesn't make sense, really, to do that, but to answer your question we really -- I could tell nine people there is no job now or I could just forego that one position and the one position doesn't help you much. I would rather cut the future FTEs. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 19 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 16 of 84 Perreault: In that vein can you help us understand how it's affecting your police officers currently in terms of overtime stressors that might be -- I mean help us get -- get the big big picture, if I understand correctly, some of this -- these ten approved positions have also been waiting quite some time to be filled. Lavey: That's a -- that's -- that's a -- that's a big question and that is always our concern is that -- it's not the fact that we are spending more in overtime, it's the fact that people don't even want to work the overtime. They are not even available to work the overtime. So, we constantly have to be aware of the burnout. We have to be aware of the mental and physical well being of the officers. We have mandatory policies on how many hours you can work in any given day because of that, because tired, fatigued officers make mistakes, which is what we can't afford. So, we always have to be aware of the -- the mental and physical well beings of our officers and now put that on top of COVID and the national scene about what's going on with officers and we are being put in that same category, the level of unease, the level of stress upon our officers right now is higher than I have ever seen it and it really worries me about the challenges that we have to keep them whole, keep them healthy. We also have a number of officers that are out on workmen comp claims because of injuries, so when you look at how many officers we currently have versus how many are actually in the field, it is much less, and, then, we have a group of officers that are now on self quarantine as well. So, it -- it puts major, major stressors upon us just to get the daily tasks done. Strader: I have a question for Crystal, maybe others. But out of these different options, option one, two, three and four -- well, we know about option four, but out of options one, two and three, how much of that is building in just bringing the department to the market with the costs that we discussed as of today and how much of that is some cushion that's built in? What I'm trying to get at is like is there a way to split the difference where next year if we were to take, you know, an appropriate every year increase, including inflation and -- and -- you know, what does that look like? Is there -- you know, what's the difference between options one, two, and three in terms of the analytical grounding in the comp set to market. Stokes: So, I think it kind of plays along with the discussion we were having a little bit earlier. There is like all kinds of wages, moves, you know, at different rates over the years. You know, the more we do now probably the less we have to do later and vice-versa I think is typically how that would play out. We just -- we just don't know what -- what that data will -- will -- how it will change over the next year. We -- we don't know. We feel very comfortable, you know, with -- with what's up there as far as putting us in a good spot for this year and, then, we will see you next year. Simison: So, Council, hopefully, you have listened to what the chief said in this context -- in the larger context. Every -- every dollar in ongoing that you appropriate without finding the corresponding ongoing revenue source puts everything that you are hearing further and further behind. If you are using growth revenue to pay for today's current salary needs, then, you are pushing off those additional patrol officers each and every Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 20 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 17 of 84 year and it's not a fun situation, but it's the reality. So, just, please, take that into consideration as you think about what you want to do from a compensation standpoint. Perreault: In that regard in general I anticipate next year's budget conversation is going to be even more challenging than this one. I mean we really haven't fully felt the results of COVID yet with all of the loans and the stimulus packages and whatnot that we have -- we have seen nationally. I think next year is going to be more challenging when folks have gone through their savings accounts and, you know, kind of burned through their retirement money, we are going to be having a more challenging conversation in my opinion about where people are personally, financially, economically than we are today. That's just my -- my guess. Purser: Now to provide a little bit of history to this. When we did the Police STEP plan last time the amount was 1 .1 million and that was on June the 19th. So, to look at today we are looking at about similar numbers, you know, and that's every other year. You do the math and everything --that--that equates to about -- around 500,000 per year is what we did if we did it every year. So, to put that in context to what you are seeing here, maybe that will give you a little bit more idea of what we have seen historically versus what we should see or should expect to see. To provide a little more context there. Lavey: Brad, I would like to add just a little bit more context to that -- and Berle can actually give these numbers. If you went with option number two -- I almost -- if you went with option number two, we took a very conservative approach when we pitched that and I know we don't like to be compared to Boise, but it puts it in context, because they are one of the two of our competitors -- it still puts us $2.45 an hour at entry level below Boise and so that option two puts us in the competitive realm, but still leaves us at mostly three, could be two on some of those positions, until the county makes their two percent adjustments they are proposing or they -- they cut it this year. We know that -- that Boise is getting 4.5 because it's negotiated. That's a give me. We know that. Now, our other competitor is Ada county, which has two percent on the table, that's going to increase the gap two percent more if we don't do something. Borton: Chief, in response to your earlier comments about the importance of the -- the STEP plan that we are discussing and -- and the willingness, if necessary, to adjust things within your ranked priority or the budget, the recruiting officer -- I don't know -- if you mention it I missed that. I apologize. But is that one that if-- if some adjustment needed to be made -- I think everything in your proposal has a basis for it and you can articulate the reason why they were included and why it made it through. I don't doubt that at all. Despite the fact that everything in your list is necessary to maintain levels of service, is that one -- I -- I was surprised it was above the -- even the record specialist. I think your other positions had a -- maybe a more clear articulation of immediate need, but if necessary, in light of option two needs to happen, is there -- is the recruiting officer one that could be delayed or reassessed somehow. And I'm just thinking about ways to make this work. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 21 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 18 of 84 Lavey: It's a fair question and I have two answers for that. The one thing we need to realize is that the further we push this out we won't have to worry about cutting positions, because we just won't be able to fill positions and we are already in that position. So, the idea behind the recruiting officer position was to try to attract a good candidate pool to fill these -- these positions based upon the circumstances we are facing. If you gave an increase to the wages -- well, if we went option three, then, we could just forget it. No. I'm just kidding. If -- if you actually make some corrections to the wages, then, it's going to be easier for ongoing staff to attract people. We were just trying to put a position in to focus in on attracting quality candidates and to make ourselves marketable. Can we forego it? We can forego anything. But the days of having applicants knock on your door aren't there anymore and so we have to go find them and so that's the purpose of the recruiting position. And, then, the other thing is is you -- I think it's 104 -- well, Brad probably has it. But 140,000'ish with ongoing and one time expenses. So, you still have 900,000 you got to buy into -- fund the rest of the plan. Borton: Understood. I think -- the reason I -- I may challenge you on that, your -- your remark about making sacrifice to have the STEP plan happen is appreciated and I think part of-- of how your department does recruiting really well and how we can support that, one, is adequately fund compensation the way it should be. Send that message loud -- loud and clear. It's the best department in the state no question and you are going to get poached because it's the best, but part of that also is our continued commitment when we fund the position that we stay true to it. This came up in last year's budget -- I think in the July workshop -- kind of the discussion of do you de-fund the position that's funded and that sends the wrong message to the community and that has an impact on your ability to recruit. Folks may be reluctant to apply to -- to a city that isn't steadfast in its commitment to the officers that it's funded. We discussed do you not fund a position and, then, if quality applicants come up we do a budget amendment to try and address that at the time. The problem is that you don't have people want to apply if they don't see that there is funded positions in that commitment. So, I think that track record of steps that we have taken all help facilitate successful recruitment as best we can, which invited the discussion of if we stay consistent with all of those policies and practices as an elected body, does that help soften the blow should a recruiting officer be removed -- I mean for a year. Kind of a trade off. Lavey: Yeah. And our -- our department, our culture, our people, our number one recruiting and so if we could make these adjustments on the wages side of things, our people could still do it and do it well and so, yes, we could -- we could forego that. We just know that the difficulties now and they keep getting worse as far as trying to track people. So, if the city grows more and we have an even greater need to fill positions that we fund, we are going to have to attract people and so can it wait? Absolutely. But can it wait in this -- also not do adjustments here -- then that's -- that makes our job that much more challenging. Borton: That -- that's what I was -- I was kind of getting at. I -- I heard you kind of had -- if you are going to make that adjustment to this that you had to remain steadfast in the commitment to the other principle -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 22 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 19 of 84 Lavey: Absolutely. Borton: -- arrived and one of the reasons why I think option two is the right answer for the budget, at least for adopting it within the tentative budget that gets published for public comment, because it doesn't necessarily -- Lavey: Joe, I guess one other thing I would like -- I just --just for the record that because of COVID and because of the schools being closed, that's given ability to use a lot of those SROs to act as recruiters right now. We actually have one real strong officer that she has developed our recruiting website and has been doing a magnificent job and so we have had that ability to --to do that right now because of that and with unknown what's going to happen next year, there is the potential for using those SROs for that position if they are not in the schools. But just -- you know, also if they are not in the schools, then, that's a funding source that we also have to deal with as well, so --just --just so you have all that information as you make your decisions. Borton: Thanks. Simison: I'm going to play Captain Obvious, but you can pay people more or you can hire more people. It's really hard to do both. Borton: What's that? Simison: You can pay people more or you can hire more people, but it's really hard to do both, so just being Captain Obvious there. Strader: I will chime in and, hopefully, we can get -- get this train moving in a direction. I like the idea of trying to find a way to do option two. It sounds like we really have to do that, because that gets us to an every year cadence, if I'm hearing this correctly. It sounds like we have some offsetting in the recruiting. We need to take a look at if there is other offsetting to be found. I started off thinking I was more of an option four on this -- or maybe option one, but I was hoping that that would sort of get us from an every two year to every one year and that's not what I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is just to reach market today and be competitive today, not 12 months from now, so, please confirm it, today, we have to do -- it sounds like option two. Am I hearing that? What happens if we pick option -- because what happens if we pick option one? Sorry, Crystal. Ritchie: I'm having trouble -- there we go. Thank you. I'm having trouble with my mic. So, certainly you are correct in what you are saying about option two and we are in agreement with that. Option one just gives us -- and strengthens our competitive advantage; right? That's -- that's obviously what the top option is going to do for us. So, given your different choices you are looking at how competitive do you want Meridian PD to be in the market pool that they are challenged with attracting and securing police officers. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 23 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 20 of 84 Strader: So, maybe to that point, just to like directly go at it, so if our starting officers are at a 15 percent discount to Boise today, what does options one, two and three get us to? Stokes: Yeah. So -- and we kind of covered this last couple weeks, but our recruit, you know, is nine percent below market right now and, then, it goes 15, ten, nine up in those lower ranks. Now, your -- your -- I think your question is if we go with option two where do we land and we land in a position we are comfortable with. Certainly not -- not the top and not the bottom and a place where we think we can continue to do business for the next 12 months. One thing that I always want to get an opportunity to mention when we talk about officers is the large amount of retirements that we have ahead of us. So this -- this issue is much like the STEP plan compounding and it -- we are -- we are kind of at the edge of that -- that avalanche that's going to start here in the next couple of years and it's going to be significant. So, just another reason why it's important to do what we can to set ourselves up for success, knowing that it's hard no matter what. Strader: I have no -- there is not a shred of doubt in my mind how important it is. I did not doubt that the chief needs these. I don't doubt any of that. I want you to give me a number. I'm really sorry to be like that, but if-- if our-- if like -- you are giving me like four example levels of nine percent, 15 percent, ten percent, nine percent. What does option one bring me to, option two bring me to, option three bring me to. It doesn't have to be right now maybe. Give us a metrics of if we make these adjustments here is exactly where it's going to be. Pick a -- a comparison point to Boise, for example. I think we could wrap our head around that. Stoke: So, we know if you -- if you want to use Boise as a measure, we know October 1 their recruiter starting wage would be -- I think it's $25.80 an hour. So, that's where they are going to start. Currently we are at $20.56 an hour. So, it's a pretty significant gap. If we did option -- I have all these right in front of me. So, if we did the -- up here, option one, that would put us at 23.37. Option two would put us at 23.60. And option four -- or sorry. Option three, which would be the six percent up there, would put us at 23.82. So, if we took that top financial option, option three, we are still $1.98 an hour behind. So, that's -- if that gives you any context. Now, of course, it's different as you move up and down the plan of what that gap looks like, but I think we are talking about attracting officers, so -- Strider: I think that helps us at least visualize what we are talking about. I mean I think we lead with our culture and we have -- we lead with our culture as a city. I think we try to do everything we can from a benefits and quality of life perspective that we can and we try to be competitive. I don't think we are in an arms race necessarily with Boise, but we do have to keep it in mind, because it's who we are directly competing with in this market. But I mean that -- that -- just getting the numbers helps me understand. I'm not seeing, though, to be honest -- I mean the -- I guess how much of a difference does it make between options one to option two, option two to option three in terms of your recruiting capability? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 24 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 21 of 84 Stokes: Well, you know, it's proportional as you go up. Those -- so, our bottom four steps is where we are behind, you know, market. So, those increases grow and make us more attractive where -- I guess trying to put my mind -- or put myself in the position of -- of somebody looking at jumping into this profession and they look at that starting wage, but if they can also look forward and go, okay, well, as long as I perform this is where I'm going to be next year and next year and next year and as we go up those bottom steps we start to become more competitive. If you can tell by the numbers I gave you we are not super competitive even after these adjustments, but we are okay, and that's why we put this in front of you. We think we are okay at those points and, then, as you move up it becomes a little more competitive at each one of those steps. Lavey: Berle, just let me add, too, the options were there just for you. They weren't anything -- because in the past we have always been, okay, give me several different options to choose from. We didn't come up with the options on our own. And so we came up with the five percent based upon heavy negotiations and discussions with our consultant, with a very very conservative mindset, and I guess I also need to point out here -- and I don't want to bring up benefits, but I have to for a minute. This is only making us somewhat competitive wages only. If you want to throw benefits out there to our competing agencies, that's a whole different discussion and it takes you way beyond what we are trying to do here today. So, we are only talking about wages and competitiveness and nothing else. You had -- you had both mentioned that there are officers that have left and gone to different departments for financial reasons. At least that's what we think is happening. Is this going to -- is the second or third option going to make it competitive enough that we anticipate that may slow down or -- and/or is there a particular position or group of positions that you are seeing officers leave? Are they -- are they -- are they sergeants? Are they, you know-- and in what ranges in relationship to this conversation? Stokes: Well, typically -- I mean we -- we have an idea of why -- why -- people leave our profession for all kinds of reasons. To go to other agencies and -- you know, it could be financial. We don't know what they were promised or how they were swayed away, financial or a lateral or an increasing position, you know, much like the, you know, private sector, pick a better job, better position, whatever. And I think those are all individual cases. I think, obviously, the more competitive we are the more it's going to retain our employees and make it harder for them to leave and that doesn't always sound positive, but that -- that's a part of this discussion is you make it hard for your good employees to leave your organization. The thing that worries me most -- and we saw this two or three years ago and I think more of this is going to come and you see it across the national landscape, it's people just leaving this profession and -- because we are pretty proud of our people. We hire very intelligent, hard working people that can contribute in a lot of ways in other organizations and businesses and you name it and we have had a handful of them leave in recent memory and I think you are dealing with both of those things and I don't know that we can keep that from happening, but I think the ones that are willing to stay in law enforcement I think this makes us better, makes it a little harder to leave. I don't want anybody to leave. We have tremendous investment in these employees, you know, emotional investment in our culture, all those things, but, then, you look at the cost of losing a tenured employee, it's significant and it -- you know, you can go out there and Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 25 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 22 of 84 research this and -- I don't know that there is any good numbers, but it's between a hundred and a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to lose an officer that's -- that's tenured in your agency, just, you know, all the costs associated with that. So, I just think there is a lot of tentacles here. But to answer your question, it would make it harder to leave would think. Perreault: And the average turnover rates in -- in police departments, are those looked at statewide or local level, at a national level, and how do we compare? Do you have any information? Stoke: I don't. I don't know how we would find -- I'm sure there is on the national landscape and with recent events -- I mean you can see certain large agencies are losing hundreds of officers a day that are -- that are deciding to take early retirement or leave and that kind of thing. So, I don't know that right now is the best time to look at that, but I think there should be some data out there. Part of our issue or circumstance is, you know, we have grown so fast so quick, we don't really know what it's going to look like for our specific agency, because we just -- we are just moving too fast. Lavey: Berle, I would just like to point out, too, that we are only talking about one factor, about retaining our employees, because our turnover rate is pretty darn good. It's -- it's really been great. I don't have that percentage. But at any given time any year you have one hundred open law enforcement positions for the valley, for Nampa, Meridian, Ada county, Boise and you have a limited applicant pool and they are looking at all those things and so it's trying to --to grab that person. So, it's not just retaining employees, it's actually being able to attract the limited amount of applicants from going somewhere else. Why here and not there. And so we have lost a few of those recently to other agencies, because they come in and they are trying to get out of whatever environment they are in and they just need a job and they are going to take either the best or the quickest and so we have lost a lot to -- to our competitors on that as well because of the current situation. Hoaglun: Todd, I need to get clarification. You talked about ongoing expenses, you know, only use ongoing revenue, which I think is a wise principle to follow. We are -- we are very conservative on how we -- how we handle budgets with the city and it serves our citizens well. We don't have bonds. We don't have debt. We -- we are -- are making sure that we will pay as we go and we try to save for things that are big ticket items that are coming along and when -- when this was developed I know the 2021 police budget enhancements were -- were put together and now we are talking about, okay, to achieve certain things, you know, maybe we cut certain things and -- you know. Or -- or drop that off the list. So, when this was developed -- and these were put into place we were coming out with a balanced budget, as the Mayor put forward a balanced budget, but as Council Woman Perreault pointed out, we are -- we are in a different time and when was that developed and that crystal ball gazed into to determine -- you know, running all the numbers that say based on growth, based on these factors it looks like we will have X, so we can afford Y. But has the equation changed some that even if we were to take -- okay, we are going to -- you know, Councilman Borton's talking about do we -- if we increase do we need recruiting. You know, I think those are good -- good thoughts as we try to Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 26 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 23 of 84 figure this out, but -- so, we dropped some things off to fund something, but, then, that revenue drops and we are not paying as we go, we are not funding with ongoing revenue, we are behind the eight ball when it comes again next year. I guess help me understand how conservative we budgeted to make sure that if we take some of these things off the list to help fund those things, that that is not -- and we know those positions we will be back next year and, of course, that will be a whole new year. Are we going to be able to sustain our budget moving forward, even with this conservative approach of saying, okay, we are going to find ways to make that work when it's off a list for a future expenditure. That's -- that's my concern. We are not cutting something now that is already being spent on, but a future anticipated expense to add real dollars to the budget. That -- probably clear as mud. Sorry about that. Lavoie: Well, Brad, the answer to the question how late do we adjust the revenue numbers. The answer is the end of May. So, we got some revenue numbers two days before we published the book. So, we wait until the very last minute to update all our revenue figures for you guys to see what we have. We have developed a five and ten year financial forecast plan that takes into consideration -- consideration all staffing requests and all merit increases. So, we balanced five years of revenues versus five years of expenses, so that we can make sure that the decisions we are making today have the ability to be funded for the next five years. The ten year plan is more that crystal ball, that goal. We don't balance those final five years. We have time to adjust our decisions to balance those five years. So, what you see here is a -- an effort of a -- not just a one year budget, but a five year budget that the Mayor, directors, and all of us have been discussing, so that all of the decisions that we are making today have the ability to fund the five years in its entirety. Year six, again, we discuss that later on. So, we believe that the decisions that we are asking you to look at are not just for '21, but also for '21 all the way to '25. So, we believe the financial forecasts that we have put together are fundable based on the decisions and a balanced budget that you have today, along with the UP items in the five year forecast as well. So, we try to do our math and try to do our forecasting to make sure not only today's decision works today, but also for five years. Simison: And that's based on assumptions. That's based upon the assumption you take the three percent -- Lavoie: It is. Simison: -- every year. Not taking the three percent in one year alone has compounding impacts, especially if you add the base from that standpoint. And this is a philosophical conversation. I mean new construction is meant to fund new people, new costs, not existing and I would say a STEP plan is existing officers cost, which really should fall into the three percent bucket. That's -- you know, if you choose to not take the three percent and add this to the base, then, you are really borrowing against new construction or future services that our residents want to fund today's needs. Whether that's a one year decision or that's how you do it forever, that's not where you are in -- why we are in the situation we are from the budget, because it does not contemplate taking the three percent. If we had the three percent in there this will be a whole different conversation. Now, we can Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 27 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 24 of 84 easily go to option four and give employees across the board. I wouldn't be surprised if we get together as departments you guys hear the same stories from some of the departments talking about their challenges with personnel, but that is the crux of the conversation is the three percent for this year. Perreault: So, Councilman Borton mentioned the transportation line item, something I have thought at length about in regard to possibly funding option number two, but I want to say -- and I have shared this with some other Council Members already, that although it might not be popular, I am in favor of taking the three percent or up to the three percent this year, because I think next year is going to be more likely the situation where we are going to need to see that relief for our residents than currently. That's my opinion. I welcome any -- any of the Council Members to share a differing opinion. I would like to hear their thoughts on that. But I would say that I am in favor of -- of taking that three percent this year. However, I do think that there are some other items in our budget. I would like to see option -- one of these options funded for sure, but if we fund option number two, that's going to pretty much take up that whole three percent. There is some other items in the budget I would like to see added or modified as well and so I am concerned about using the entirety of the three percent just --just to fund the STEP plan. Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: If you adjust the three percent real quick--or the transportation. As I mentioned last time, take it out. It was a placeholder. It was a conversation. We can't use that fund balance to fund ongoing expenses in my opinion. So, if you are trying to balance the budget on a -- that one time expense, I would encourage you not to do so. Borton: I'm going to make a motion to move on. Perhaps. Maybe there is more discussion on the first topic of compensation, that we adjust the tentative draft budget, increasing that General Fund merit from five hundred to a thousand, excluding the police STEP plan and excluding the fire union, because they are addressed in a separate discussion and negotiation. So, that's the first part. And the second part is to utilize option two, funding the STEP plan with -- I believe the 929 figure that was on the board before us. How that fits will ebb and flow as we continue through the discussion into the General Fund, what other adjustments, if any, are going to be made. It will also help frame what, if any, is necessary to Council Woman Perreault's question on do we need to generate additional revenues or not. I think we get to the magnitude of that discussion at the tail end when we see -- proceed through to what other adjustments might be made. So, for the purpose of progressing, if a motion helps frame it, at least -- again, this -- we are preparing a tentative draft budget or a tentative budget for publication. It lets us proceed into the next steps. So, that's my motion. Bernt: Second. Perreault: Did I hear a second? Simison: Yeah. We are not following a formal process. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 28 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 25 of 84 Strader: It makes sense to me. Borton: Is that thumbs down, thumbs up? Strader: I would like to do that. If the question is would you like to see that and see if we can figure out how to make that work, I would like to see that. I think -- if we can achieve that that makes sense. Hoaglun: As a placeholder I'm fine with moving that forward. Whether or not we end up there I don't know. Borton: I think kind of what we have done historically is -- and I think it probably went -- whoever is doing it; right? Will populate the spreadsheet, sort of see how it literally looks, how it would adjust it. How it adjusts the tail end. What, if any, fund balance needs to be utilized. In various years we -- budget has not necessarily been balanced because we have used fund balanced as needed on a year-by-year basis. Whether that's necessary in this year to make it happen, we don't know yet, but it lets us to then get into discussions on transportation costs or a recruiting officer or other areas that might frame what the final discussion is. Cavener: Joe, I kind of had the same question and I'm -- we are coming back to it, how you got to the thousand dollar number. What -- what is the basis of moving from five hundred to a thousand? I think Council Member Strader had mentioned 750. I'm just trying to figure out what got you there? What -- what -- why did -- why did we -- why did you settle on a thousand versus 500, 750 or 2,000? Help me understand that. Borton: Mr. Mayor, I think it's a more appropriate figure. Yeah. You are not going to get it as an output from a formula, but I think -- I think if we are going to accept the premise that the Mayor has presented to do it in this fashion and that there might be individuals who, through other increasing costs, will have little, if any, ability to stay whole, that a thousand is a much more certain figure to ensure at the very least everyone stays whole, if that is in the -- nothing more scientific than that. Lavoie: And, Luke, you asked the question what percentage of the employee base has a salary less than 50,000. Our -- our estimates are 38 percent of your employee base has a salary less than 50,000. Cavener: Thank you. Strader: Quick question for Todd. Since we are making a couple changes -- so, Councilman Borton is -- is proposing a one thousand dollar employee one time compensation, we are -- I think hopefully some people -- and most of us maybe. I don't know. Are at least turning toward the idea that each compensation group, if you will, will be treated separately. So, given that this would be general employees only, excluding the Police and Fire, what has changed for the dollar amount associated with that line item Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 29 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 26 of 84 if before it was a certain amount for 500, now we have this other specific pool being specifically addressed, do we know what that dollar amount is? Lavoie: That's a fair question. We are trying to do the math on the fly with you right now, so we believe 151 represents the General Fund employees. That does not include the Police STEP plan, nor the Fire Department. Again, you --or Joe presented option number two, so we have now put that on the screen of 929. The only employee group we need to address still, then, it would be the Fire Department group. Again whether or not you want to give them a thousand dollars -- and Robert -- or the Mayor's proposal was 500 dollars for all employees. For the Fire Department we do need to establish a funding mechanism. We have to have something in there, be it one thousand dollars per employee, just like the General Fund, or something else. We need to establish a fund, though, for the Fire Department if we are going to compensate them for fiscal '21. Borton: Mr. Mayor, that's -- I appreciate you bringing that up. That's -- that's something that was -- how it's done is done -- it's done in a separate discussion through those negotiations for the funding authority, so I would change to include them for the purpose of proceeding forward in part of this. Lavoie: So, add -- so, you would like to have the union also receive a thousand dollars merit -- Borton: Yes. Lavoie: -- as a value. Borton: To -- to establish the funding authority that allows that to occur. Not to mince words, but that's just on a different proceeding. Cavener: To create the funding authority? Borton: In this process, yes. Lavoie: I'm with you. So, we -- we can add them to the General Fund. So, Jenny, go ahead and remove the 77 from your formula. So, that establishes, then, a funding amount to negotiate with, whether or not they want to do a thousand dollars apiece or point zero -- whatever percentage, that gives them a funding pool to now work with. Hoaglun: Okay. Yeah. I think that will help. For discussion purposes. Perreault: So, to clarify, that number is all General Fund employees, plus Fire or -- Lavoie: So, you have two lines of merit up here on the screen now. The first line represents all General Fund employees, other than the STEP plan employees. So, the STEP plan currently has 125 employees, so we are going to give a thousand dollars to every employee in the General Fund, other than 125. A hundred and twenty-five will, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 30 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 27 of 84 then, be represented on the following line in the 929,000 dollars to get them to the market discussion that you guys just concluded. So, that is inclusive -- that includes all General Fund employees at this moment in time. Perreault: Okay. So, for further clarification, that 929 is intended to bring those positions into market, but it does not help with the offset of increased benefits cost to those police employees; is that correct? Lavoie: That's correct. So, these are wages only. Benefits are handled in a different discussion. Perreault: But the intent of the 500 or thousand per employee in the General Fund and the Enterprise Fund was to help with the cost of benefit increases? Lavoie: Based on what Robert discussed earlier that his logic for the 500 dollars was to help offset the cost -- additional cost to the benefits for the family employee. A thousand dollars was proposed by Treg. Simison: At the request of Council. Lavoie: Yeah. Perreault: Okay. I just ran a little math on the merit analysis spreadsheet that you created and if all the employees, except for Police and Fire, were to receive two percent that, would get us about 390,000 just for comparison, General Fund and Enterprise, without Police and Fire. As a percentage 390,000 comes out to about two percent. Lavoie: To help -- Jessica, to help you on that math -- if you can scroll down one more, Jenny. And we show -- if you want to give two percent to all employees, other than the Police STEP plan and the Fire union, we show 466,350 -- or 466,250. Perreault: I must have deleted one -- Lavoie: That's all right. Strader: Todd, real quick. So, if the new General Fund employees is 151 -- 151,000 1 think I heard, was the thousand. Lavoie: And, Jenny, if you can bring back the summary. Strader: Just for comparison purposes, what was it at 500 for the entire employee population? I just want to compare where we were and where we are now on that line item. Earlier, Liz, we had 500 dollars at 525 employees. Strader: Yes. Exactly. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 31 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 28 of 84 Lavoie: That was 262,000 dollars. Five hundred times 525 is 262,500. Strader: Yep. And now we are at 151? Lavoie: Although right now we are 228 just for the General Fund, but, again, the five -- Strader: No. I understand. Lavoie: The 262 represented your entire City of Meridian. Strader: Exactly. Yeah. No. I mean effectively we have been able to -- by treating each employee pool that's compensated separately, we have achieved some savings by doing that. Compared to the previous proposal. Lavoie: No. Right now -- Strader: Okay. Lavoie: -- the previous proposal that we had, the 500 dollars, was a total city impact of 262. Strader: Ah. Lavoie: The General Fund alone is at 228. We have not even addressed the Enterprise Fund, nor the Community Development Department yet. Strader: No. I understand. I'm talking about the one-time employee bonus alone. Simison: Yes. Strader: Yeah. I'm just trying to dial in on where we were at and where we are at now. Simison: Can you do the two four? Because you are over what you weren't before, just -- Strader: Exactly. Yeah. No. So, that's important for us to realize. Okay. Perreault: So, can we do the math on, essentially, at that thousand dollars per employee for General Fund, plus Fire, where that actually puts us as a percentage of-- I realize that -- that we are not talking about increasing their salaries, I just am curious at what the -- what percentage, in effect, it gives them an increase for the year. Is it four percent? Three and a half? My question -- Lavoie: So, what -- what does one thousand dollars equate to on average on an employee's salary? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 32 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 29 of 84 Strader: No. If we were to plug -- if we were to --to look at the merit analysis spreadsheet that you had up and were to take out -- we are just to look at General Fund, plus Fire, which is what that 232 -- Lavoie: Correct. Perreault: -- number gets us at, where does that put us on our percentages or close, if we can get close to that. Lavoie: So, Jenny, we need to add back Fire. So, add back -- no. You are good. Go back to STEP plan. Go back to your merit. Add -- no. Scroll up. Add back in the Fire formula for whatever value that was. Yep. So, then, now look at line 24, Jenny, and we want to try to find where 288 resides. Two hundred and eighty-eight thousand resides in the -- you can see kind of in that .7, .8 bracket. Perreault: I know -- I think we would be taking out police, right, because they are not in your figure on the other chart. Okay. That's just General Fund, plus Fire; correct? Lavoie: Correct. Yes. Strader: Okay. Bernt: So, want to go to our next topic and see what that looks like in the General Fund? Go by -- Lavoie: Well, we need to finalize compensation, as the decisions that we make here impact the Enterprise Fund and the Community Development Fund. So, once we finalize compensation, then, we will start going back to the General Fund and balancing that out and we want to finalize compensation, so we can apply it to the other two departments and funds as well. Because right now we have the proposal on the table of a thousand dollars per employee, other than STEP plan and STEP plan is going to be treated differently. If you guys are comfortable with that, we can apply it and we can start working on the balancing act for the General Fund, if you guys on Council are comfortable with that. I see three nods. Four nods. That's a somewhat majority, so we will go with this then. Again, appreciate the good dialogue on compensation. We will adjust the Enterprise Fund and the Community Development Department accordingly. So, with that appreciate the compensation discussions. I believe we go to Enterprise Fund first, guys. So, now we are going to go ahead and -- Cavener: Mayor, can we take ten? Simison: If Council feels they need to take ten, we can take ten. (Recess: 9:38 a.m. to 9:52 a.m.) Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 33 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 30 of 84 Simison: All right. Council, we will go ahead and come back out of recess and turn this over to Brad. Purser: Great. Do we want to -- I guess next steps. Begin with Enterprise Fund or how do you want to -- all right. Yes. Move on to the Enterprise Fund. If you want to look at the budget summaries, the very front of the -- of your books. You guys could follow along. Lavoie: We will have the summary of all three of these on your screen -- Purser: So, either in your book or on the screen there. I will start with -- with the base budget in the Enterprise Fund. Are there any questions about the base budget? Those are primarily, you know, personnel operating. Those are the things that we went over during our March, April budget meetings. Lavoie: So, the answer -- Liz, you had a question about the balancing act, hold your hand, kind of tell you how we are going to do this. So, this is the part where we are going to, quote, unquote, balance the budget. We are going to do this by fund by fund. So, Brad, we will ask you about the base budget replacements and, then, the request. He is going to allow you guys to dialogue for each one of these sections within each fund. These are the moments where we need you guys to dialogue, because Brad's going to ask you at the end no further questions. He is going to close the Enterprise Fund -- in this case base budget and, again, we are done with base budget discussions. We are moving on. Consider it closed. This is what we are proposing to the citizens. So, this is your opportunity to start that dialogue on these topics, because once Brad kind of quote, unquote, closes it, we need to, then, move on to the next section, because we have to establish a final number to propose to the citizens for their consideration for the budget hearing. Hopefully that helps you understand kind of the framework, where we are going. So, Brad, will hold your hand on these discussions going forward. Purser: Right. Thank you, Todd. So, with the base budget were there any questions on that? Are we good? Lavoie: And, Liz, you asked us to bring up any outstanding items that -- or loose ends I think you called it. We have no loose ends from the prior budget workshop that we are familiar with on the base budget for the Enterprise Fund. Purser: Correct. Strader: So, the only-- oops. Hello. So, I don't know-- one thing just to put a placeholder in, because I don't know where it should fit, but at what point -- I think there was an open item on LED conversions. I don't know where we want to put that discussion,just because it sounded like that could come from new growth revenue. Sounded like it could come different places, so -- Purser: Right. Well, we can address that when we get to the General Fund. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 34 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 31 of 84 Strader: Okay. Purser: Because there is -- there is two pieces in the -- Strader: Plan to do that then. Borton: That's in Other Government? Purser: Huh? Borton: That's in Other Government? Purser: Yeah. It's in Other Government. Right. For streetlights. So, we will -- we will go to -- we will address that, yes. Strader: Okay. Purser: So -- okay. We go to base budget. Okay. So, closing base budget. Next on replacement you are looking at the screen or in your books under the replacement section in the Enterprise. I think that's -- not the beginning of your-- of your budget summary, but we are kind of working from the back forward, if you are looking under the Enterprise Fund. Any questions on any of the replacements that we are proposing? Bernt: No, sir. Purser: Okay. Moving forward, then, onto the next section for Enterprise Fund. That's the budget requests. That comprises of everything that -- we had Dale up here during our budget workshop. We had a -- quite a lengthy discussion about each of the budget requests. Are there any outstanding questions you guys have on that? Any discussion to have, now is the time for that -- for any of those items. We are good? Okay. That would conclude the Enterprise Fund then. The next step we were going to do is move over to the Community Development. So, you know, that's right before the Enterprise Fund on your budget summary. And like before, beginning with the base budget, I don't believe we have any outstanding items that were pending from our perspective, but if you guys have any questions that have come up once you looked at it, go ahead. Strader: Oops. Hello. I'm still not super convinced of the administrative assistant enhancement -- Purser: Okay. Strader: -- in the -- in the Community Development budget. I had mentioned that to Treg and I don't know where other people felt on it -- how they feel. I thought why not just ask for an assistant planner, to be honest, or an assistant to do that economic development role. I was a little struggling with also understanding if -- if that made a ton of sense in light of what might be like a -- sort of similar amount of activity with COVID related Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 35 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 32 of 84 business concerns and so my -- my personal instinct was to hold off on that position and, then, maybe you let them ask for a bigger position the next year. If they didn't want to ask for it. I will let Jessica discuss, too. Perreault: I had a conversation -- short conversation with Cameron yesterday. We didn't -- we didn't have -- discuss delaying a year, but we did discuss the admin role and the needs that it would fill or fit and they seemed to be comfortable with it at this time. I'm, in general, in agreement with Council Woman Strader regarding the desire to see a position that is -- that is more substantial and will fulfill more long-term needs for the department, but, ultimately, I really just have to trust that the director is telling me that this will meet his needs at this point. And he's just walked in the room. If you would like to bring him up, I'm sure he would be happy. Purser: Welcome him. Just so we are clear, you know, that's a budget request. I'm assuming there are no questions about the base budget for-- I mean there is not a lot in replacements, but if we don't have any questions there. We will just move straight into the -- great. Okay. Perreault: One thing to point out, though, Liz -- Council Woman Strader, is that I don't know that we have a figure to estimate for what that would look like next year. Strader: Okay. I apologize, Cameron, because you were not here and I jumped the gun. I jumped the gun, because we were trying to go through your base budget, but I just -- I -- I'm a little still struggling with the administrative assistant enhancement. I -- I -- I just -- I haven't been convinced that, you know, absent COVID-related specific concerns that the workload really justifies needing this administrative role this year, as opposed to just waiting a year and maybe getting a higher level position. That's just me. I'm just one person and I'm not-- it's not -- I trust you, I trust your judgment, I am sure there is a need, I'm just-- I'm not clear on the urgency of that need, particularly in the context of, you know, we are considering taking away other budget enhancements for other roles -- for recruiting, for example, for the Police Department, et cetera. I'm just -- I am really struggling with this one specifically and the urgency for this --this year, particularly if there is a higher level type of work that might be needed next year, I don't know if you will be successful in getting that at that time, so that -- I don't know. That was just my -- that was a clunky way -- very clunky way of saying I have some concerns still about the admin. Cavener: Council Woman Strader, I think what I -- what I heard you in the last meeting and what I'm hearing today is you want to make sure that we are funding the right position at the right time. Strader: Yes. Thank you. Cavener: No problem. I mean here is -- here is my take is if this is what the department is saying they need, I'm not in economic development every day. 1, like you, anytime I hear administrative assistant, I'm like, well, what -- is that like the Swiss Army knife, we have got lots of different projects, which is all compiled into one. And, Cameron, you Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 36 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 33 of 84 heard the comments that we had last month. I haven't heard anything from you about making a change. I assume that you have taken all the feedback from Council into account and you still feel this is the correct position for you. I think Council Member Strader is right and Council Member Perreault touched on this earlier, next year's budget I think is going to be probably even more challenging. The opportunity to create yet another position next year I think will be more challenging for us to wrap our heads around. That all into account, you still feel this is the right position for your department moving forward; correct? Arial: Appreciate that question, Luke, because that is the heart and soul of this request is, yes, could we use more now? Absolutely. Do we want to grow this program? No question. We feel like this request is a reflection of our immediate need. It gets our current economic development administrator Tod Cleary out of the -- out of the weeds a little more and enables her to do higher level work and I think given that this is a -- this is our request, we are trying to be sensitive to the budget discussions, we are trying to be sensitive to the needs of our community, but also at the same time try to supply the service and the -- and the needs of our economic development division. So, we absolutely wish it were more. We wish it were -- I mean I know a lot of departments in the business wish there were more, but we are trying to be respectful to the process, to the needs of our community and to ultimately trying to take a good, positive step forward in economic development. So, that's probably my clunky response to the question, but it's -- that -- that is the reality and so we are asking for the position for those reasons. Strader: Can I take one more question -- one more crack at it? Not that I'm trying to get rid of it, but just so -- I want to really feel good about it, that we really tested it out at the end of the day. This -- with this position are you maintaining a level of service for an increased customer base or are you expanding our current level of service into new services for the city? Arial: The hope and the goal would be to be able to expand. I think the immediate reality is this -- this is more of trying to get to a level of service that we feel --trying to take a step forward to a level of service. I don't think it's accurate to say that we are there in economic development. In order to have a -- you know, a robust attraction and retention program, that's not possible with the current circumstances, as well as the current staffing. So, this is a step in that direction and certainly will help. Strader: Okay. All right. I got one more. So, would that -- would that bring us to a level of service that you feel is commensurate it with a city of our size for an economic development program? And what I am trying to get to is we are in a tight year where we are really being thoughtful, we are thinking about a zero percent, I mean we are really trying to buckle down. So, it's hard if I'm thinking we are enhancing our services to a new level, unless I think that the baseline of where we should be -- we are just not where we should be for the services a city of our size should be offering at this time. Arial: Yeah. Great question. So, the answer is -- I mean if you look comparatively speaking -- again, if you look-- if you strip out Boise, you know, there are cities of smaller Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 37 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 34 of 84 size that have more and are doing much more I think it's safe to say. So, I think with that said we do have an incredible asset in -- in Tori. She's fantastic. She's doing incredible work at a high level with very limited resource and when a demand comes in the door it takes her away from that higher level work and I think that she's best served -- the community is best served by keeping her at that high level and, you know, if you think of it in terms of, you know, ROI or just value, that -- that can be incredibly powerful. So, is this a -- it's a step toward a premier service I think for Meridian. This would be a logical step that way. Perreault: Cameron, what-- Boise is roughly twice the population of Meridian. How many economic development staff do they have? Arial: Ooh, that's a good question. I think there is -- well, it's a little bit of a -- I don't know exactly. I know that they have at least a director of economic development. They also have -- I think a few additional staff in their economic development division. It's also important to note that they have a -- a very large and influential urban renewal agency in the Capital City Development Corporation. Many staff. Fifteen or so staff and directors and so on that we don't -- we just don't have. So, again, we don't necessarily compare our self to Boise, but that's a very robust program and I think it's also important to mention that they have a full, you know, CDBG division with multiple staff there and as you guys know Tori manages our CDB -- CDBG program as well with one employee there. So, again, it's a -- it's a little bit of an apples to oranges, they are a much larger and sophisticated, larger operation. Perreault: I don't want to speak for Council Woman Strader, but if I understand her question correctly, I think part of what she's getting at is -- there is some real feedback from my mic. Part of what she's getting at is -- is that we -- I prefer not to be looking at hiring a third FTE three years down the road to -- because we didn't hire correctly this time and I would anticipate that we won't be in a position from a budget standpoint for at least three or four years to make an increase. So, I would rather know that we -- that we spent an extra 20 or 30 thousand this year to get a role that is going to -- to be effective for the next several years, than be looking three years from now having another conversation about a third FTE, because the second one that we hire -- or, excuse me, this would be the fourth, because I think there is -- there is -- there is currently two in economic development or -- is that right, Tori or Crystal? Just one? Okay. Arial- Well, correct. Crystal is under the purview of Tori, so she manages the CDBG program as well, but that's targeted just to CDBG. Perreault: Okay. So, I -- yeah. I have concerns about -- if the intention is for this -- this administrative position to -- to turn into a higher level position, I understand that, I just think that that's a little bit -- that's just a really unknown. I mean that's just not -- I don't -- I don't want to make a budget decision based on that expectation. So, I think that I would rather consider the increase this year and have a position that is really ready to go than having a conversation about hiring another FTE in three years or four years because that administrative role didn't fulfill what you need. Maybe it is an immediate -- maybe it does Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 38 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 35 of 84 immediately fulfill it, but as fast as we are growing, as big as we are getting, I anticipate we will -- we will need more staffing in that department sooner rather than later, so I would rather look at a little longer term solution than a shorter term solution, even if that fulfills an immediate need. In that regard have you put together an estimate of what that would look like for compensation for--for a role that would be more substantial and do you have those numbers to share with us? Arial: We do -- we do have the job description drafted, but we do not have -- I don't think we have had a class or attached a wage to it, so -- but we do -- that -- that does exist, so -- unfortunately, I don't have the exact expense for that. Perreault: Okay. In that vein I don't know that we can make a decision, then, about the financial piece of it. I think that leaves us in a situation of just deciding whether we include the administrative assistant position or not this year. Hoaglun: What I hear from the director, though, is the fact that we have got a superstar in the economic development director's position who, if with some adequate support by this position, we can unleash and let her focus on -- on the bigger picture and the higher level items and the things that need to be done, as opposed to the mundane and I think that will -- the productivity will greatly increase by adding this position. Is that an assessment -- is that -- am I hearing that correctly? Arial: That's correct. Yes. Simison: And this is, Council, a new way of doing things, but traditionally we have waited until we had a demonstrated need from that standpoint. We have often funded positions starting them at halftime, moving them to full time, and, then, as the job duties and responsibilities change and increase, you know, elevate that up if necessary. But I can't be -- I -- you know, it's not in my budget. I put this in because of Council's conversation last year. Half of you weren't here. Was it not the last year's Council conversation this position may not even be in the budget this year, but I can't be supportive of increasing beyond this current scope of this position at this time until there is -- to the point until you get a baseline about what you really have and what your needs are going above and beyond, it seems not prudent in my opinion. Arial: I would just add like -- there was a question -- find this really quickly. The cities of Twin Falls, Caldwell, Nampa and Mountain Home all have at least two staff members. So, as small as Mountain Home has two. Strader: Okay. Well, I -- I will -- I -- personally I -- I am not hearing a substantial demonstrated need for higher level of work associated with a full-time position that would be at a higher level. I -- I personally am afraid that we are enhancing our level of service, as opposed to providing a baseline level of service and that COVID is distorting some of the activity. I would rather be more conservative on this one and wait a year and have you come back and ask for something if it's needed at that time, but I -- I also defer to the rest of Council on that one. I mean if -- if the rest of Council thinks that this admin role Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 39 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 36 of 84 makes sense I will just tell you I think if you came back a year from now and, then, asked for another full-time FTE would not likely be supportive at that time, so -- Cavener: This is kind of a unique position in that I'm not hearing from Council that there is opposition to the economic development department to meet the needs of the community, it's just about what's the right need. I'm kind of tracking with Council Member Strader, but I also don't know if it makes sense to wait an entire year or I think may -- and, again, not trying to speak for the Council, I'm hearing general support for meeting the needs of the department, but it's making sure that this is the right mousetrap versus maybe is there a mousetrap that will meet our needs better in the future. That could be a conversation that we could have at a -- at a later point in time and potentially that could be a part of, you know, Tori coming and kind of laying out the provision for ED and kind of bringing the Council along with that, having an understanding about where she or you want to take the department, what her roles are with overseeing CDBG, where that would go and I think that would help us I think have greater comfort and confidence about this versus something else and it may be it comes back to this, but what I'm hearing from Council is kind of weighing where we are now versus where we want it to go and not maybe being in a position to fund it where we want to go in the future. There is no fault of your own to say this is what our immediate need is right now. I think as Council Members we tend to also look at where we are now, where we are going in the future and I think that's where some of the -- maybe the -- wrapping our heads around the position might be. So, I'm supportive of holding this request with the ask that within the next 12 months you are back, you know, doing -- you or Tori are back doing a presentation for Council, overview of ED potentially with a budget amendment for this position or a version thereof for the economical development department. That's what I think. Perreault: If I may, since I'm not exactly sure if I'm reading the room right, is there a preference to have -- to do a presentation prior to the end of August to decide if we are keeping the position at all or how is Council feeling about keeping it in and then -- and, then -- excuse me. Sorry. And, then, taking it with a budget amendment as Councilman Cavener suggests. Borton: We have customarily addressed it here. Not -- at least not had a formal presentation on a specific proposed position. There might be, you know, conversations amongst a Council Member and the director if there is information that we don't yet have to determine whether it's appropriate to fund as presented, so --we haven't -- haven't had a separate Council agenda topic on it necessarily. And that's kind of what the last couple weeks have been for to try and gather that from you as to what this position is. I didn't -- when I looked at it I didn't have heartburn with it, understanding that as part of that -- that trust and the vetting that you and the Mayor went through to include it, to exclude other things that you probably thought were important, but if you believe this is a position at this level that helps your department, ED, excel in the current environment and that if in the winter or the spring or next year additional horsepower is necessary to meet an additional need and opportunity, you have, it sounds like from Council, support to ask for the horsepower you need within the department. That means this position is reclassified for additional duties. Maybe that's how it's solved. Maybe it's solved by another person and Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 40 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 37 of 84 you try and convince us why that's necessary, but until we know what those specific circumstances are it's probably hard for us to guess where you might need to go, but if you are saying in your discussing with what you know your ED needs and discussions with the Mayor that this is what's necessary to accomplish the task ahead of you, understanding you got support to adjust and edit at least for -- for the discussion, I didn't have initial concern with the position. Simison: And I think that's the key part. Adjust and edit. Each year is an adjustment in the editing. You are going to have turnover within the department, directors have the ability to look at their overall structure to make moves and move positions, so until you -- until you get the piece in and you start seeing where -- how it impacts the overall workflow of the department and other changes -- and, again, I know the hang up is over the word administrative is what I'm gathering. I mean if you want to change it to an economic development assistant, so it feels like it's not an administrative, but it's still doing the same general duties -- it's a wide breadth of work and if they are able and capable to do more they will and if that's the case the position will be reclassed accordingly and compensated appropriately for the level of work that needs to be done. So, this is not a one time forever decision about the make up and needs of the department or for economic development and at least in my opinion, but you tend to have to walk before you can run and that's where we are and have been as we have been bringing Tod on is, you know, we need to give her the assistance to help where she shouldn't necessarily spend her time. Purser: Any further questions or you want to keep on -- if we -- if we remove it now we won't be able to add it later down the road. What would you like to do? Perreault: I propose that we keep it at this time. Is there a -- there is not any kind of formal motion required though. Purser: Are you good with that for now? Any other commentary, discussion, on budget requests? Is this the only one that Community Development had? We can move on to General Fund. Simison: Yes. Purser: So, just beginning with -- with the -- the top here and with -- in the General Fund, you know, again, starting with the base budget are there any questions, discussions, anything outlined with the base budget in the General Fund? I'm not seeing any. Perreault: I do have a general question, actually, about some funds. So, I noticed in several different departments there is contracted janitorial work and I wanted to understand the purpose of contracting out versus having city staff do that work. If I could get some understanding of that that would be really helpful. Purser: That's a good question. We have -- we have opted to outsource -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 41 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 38 of 84 Lavoie: I can speak to that. The city has -- since we have moved here we have had contracted janitorial services for the cleaning of the facility. When we first moved here we had one employee who was in charge of building maintenance. I don't believe -- if we can get Max here possibly to discuss any options of having internal staff do the cleaning, as opposed to the building maintenance. I have -- again, we have not discussed bringing in house janitorial services to my knowledge, But, again, I can ask Max if he's had any discussions on that, but we can get -- we can come back to you on that. That's a fair question. But we have always outsourced when we built this building in '08 to have janitorial clean this building, along with all of our satellite locations as well. Perreault: Yeah. I would really like to hear the thinking behind why contracted service might -- might be better than in-house, if it has something to do with resources, supplies, liability that would be great. Lavoie: Fair question. Simison: All I can say is I recall -- and Councilman Hoaglun was here. There was an analysis that was done at the time on insourcing versus outsourcing. You know, I think I'm more cheap than I realized, but I felt like the -- the two costs that were put side by side, the cost to do it in-house was lower -- or higher than what I thought it should have been, but at that point in time outsourcing was a more cost effective option than insourcing. But I think it might be worthy of reanalysis I guess. But if that's something Council would like to do, I would encourage you not to do it right now, but that's something we could look out for this next year or at least how long -- I guess the real question is our contract, how long is our contract for. Is it a three year -- as we bid that out. So, we at least have to -- quite frankly, live under the contract until it's done, but we can do analysis before the next time it's up, if that would make sense. Hoaglun: Yeah. I was going to say that I remember that discussion, but I can't remember the details of the analysis. But we went there because of certain things, but it wouldn't hurt to -- down the road do -- do another analysis just to check that out, but -- Perreault: It's been over a decade. Lavoie: Well, I can speak on Finance's behalf, we have not conducted a formal analysis of janitorial versus insourcing-outsourcing in over ten years. Now, whether or not the Police Department or the wastewater treatment facility or the water department or the Fire Departments have done that or Max -- again, that's a fair question and we can reach out to all the agents -- the departments and see if there has been an analysis done. Lavey: Todd, I just want to point out that the contract is up this year, so you don't want to lock yourself into something this year if you are looking at expanding. So, just keep that in mind and get that information to Max, because the Varsity contract is up, they have already put out the bid, they have already rated and it's time to award a new contract, so -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 42 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 39 of 84 Purser: I believe we have awarded a new contract. Lavey: Then you might already be locked in for several years, so -- Purser: I believe we have awarded the contract. Lavey: So, it's a -- it's a moot point today. Perreault: Is there really any way to compare those numbers without having -- without having bids come in? I mean would we have -- would we have to go through the RFP process before we could really compare in-house to contracted and, then, that's this year it sounds like? Lavoie: Well, we have a very timely bid, so we know what the current rates are for the outsource, now we would have to conduct an insource analysis. So, the outsource is done, now we would have to work with our fellow -- I guess agencies and see what they pay for an employee, how many employees could now be part of the analysis. So, it's actually timely that we have recent data from the outsourcing company. Simison: Do we know how long the contract is for? Is it a three year contract? Lavoie: We can research that for you. Perreault: If I'm the only Council Member who is interested in the information I certainly don't want to ask for staff time, but I would hear from other Council Members. Simison: I think it's something we should look at, quite frankly, but it may not be something we can do anything about for several budget cycles. Purser: Give me one second while we are -- Lavoie: In answer to the question about the contract, it's a five year contract with -- basically it's an annualized contract, with an expectation of five years with an annualized inflationary factor for every year that goes on, if that make sense. So, in theory, we wouldn't revisit it for another five years, but, again, we have every right to reopen the bid if we need to due to the contract -- contract language that we put in, but we can still conduct an analysis and we can provide that to you. If Council at that time says, hey, we wish to somehow terminate this contract I believe you have the right. We will research that. But we can start that research for you. Perreault: Thank you. Purser: Good question. Any other questions about General Fund base budget item? Okay. Let's move on to replacement items. That's the next section. Do we have any questions about any-- about any of the replacement items listed there? If you are looking at your budget center. The streetlight LED replacement is one of the outstanding items Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 43 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 40 of 84 that we have on the replacements, totaling 75,000. Council Woman Strader, I know you had a -- wanted discussion on that. Strader: Thank you. I knew I would miss it if someone didn't point it out to me. Things just move so fast. So, I mean like we -- right now at the current pace that we are funding it, it sounds like a 21 year time frame. It felt like Council had some good consensus that this is a good investment. A lot of the conversions of the older bulbs and -- the fixtures itself. It's not just a bulb, the whole -- the whole conversion. A lot of these have a 15 to 20 percent IRR on investment. I think it's a very good investment for the city and it is something that should have positive effects down the road. I think where I was going with it was, you know, perhaps we increase the amount for LED conversions to something that aligns more with a -- I was going to go with a five year conversion timeline, but I'm going to say seven year conversion timeline and I think that would give us a good year for them to try to do that and, then, come back to us and we can discuss if we are on track to do that conversion. If we want to accelerate that more into five or if we want to stick with that conversion rate, but it is a very good investment in my opinion and it sounded like possibly from discussing with Finance that additional revenue from -- for -- from growth could partially help -- or fully help fund that. I don't know how much of a difference that makes, to be honest. Money is fungible and there is a bunch of competing priorities. But I do think this one's important. Borton: I agree with --with Councilman Strader that it's something that we could enhance this year to some degree and -- and the kind of longer term plan of what we might choose to do year over year to accelerate this convergence. We have got this next year to -- to have that done and a recommendation brought before us to say for fiscal year 2022 maybe this is the program we want to implement that is an accelerated conversion. But for the purpose of enhancing it today it might be relatively arbitrary if we -- if we double it, for example, to try and do twice as many, that might capture the intent to do it a little quicker, understanding that there is also the request to bring back some structure to a longer term plan of how this could be done quicker if that's the will of Council. Strader: I might -- I might ask Dale if he doesn't -- if he doesn't mind joining us for a second. I get a little out of my element when I'm trying to pick an achievable number. Sorry to put you on the spot, Dale, but I'm sure you thought this is coming. There is no way you didn't see it coming. Bolthouse: We have had a little discussion about it here lately, but, yeah -- maybe just some -- some -- some matter of scope on -- on the two areas. I think -- you know, the program has been in place for now I think over ten years in terms of streetlight -- adding lights to underserved or poorly illuminated areas and the introduction of the conversion technology, which has, you know, come in -- in the last three or -- three years or so as that technology has become affordable. So, the city has kind of initiated a balanced approach basis of trying to take General Fund money and apply some towards the underserved areas and some towards the conversion of the -- of the LED from the high pressure sodium to LED fixtures. So, Brad was asking me just a moment ago here -- and I gave the Mayor this -- some information that Warren and I will put together, but in our Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 44 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 41 of 84 perimeter -- in our city limits in both the perimeter and on the peripheral we have over 5,000 streetlights that could be installed if they were to meet city lighting standards. About 2,000 of those lights are likely going to come from those developers as those properties develop. So, if you take that off it leaves you roughly a little over 3,000 lights that could be there and ACHD when they go in and do road projects and you are seeing -- there is a number of them and we are getting -- there is a pretty healthy portfolio of those in our plan now and into the future, you know, they are contributing and taking care of some of those areas as well and Al suggested that we are getting about a hundred streetlights a year coming from ACHD when they do a road widening project -- or improvement project. So, if you take that over ten years, you take that thousand off, we have got -- we could go -- tackle something over 2,000 lights to shore up underserved areas and those lights are somewhere between five and seven thousand dollars a piece installed. So, you are looking at a -- at a total cost of -- in excess of ten million dollars in order to do that. So, we used the city fund pool of 50,000 dollars. That gets you roughly eight to ten lights a year targeted an area. We have used the CBG -- probably got the initials wrong. CDBG grant program, which is targeting some of the -- you know, specific areas in the city. We have been successful in utilizing that. But we have got a pretty tall task ahead of us to ultimately bring the city up to the streetlight standards. Simison: Council, that was one of my biggest concerns. We all support conversion. We see the ROL It's there. But we have a ten million dollar backlog of areas that don't have lights to begin with and, you know, I guess I would ask if -- if there is a pathway that was right there in from someone's house and there is a pathway not from someone's house, are we going to tear up the pathway that's already there and put down a new one or do you want to go put a pathway where one doesn't exist? That is, essentially, the same question here. If you want to accelerate your investment in LED streetlights, you could do it in underserved areas, as compared to doing accelerating replacement of existing lights. It's all about, you know, do you -- is it there for those who have it or do you want to give it to those who don't even have it yet? That to me is a bigger fundamental question. We all support conversion. No question here. We would all do a million dollars of it next year if we had the staffing. But is that the right place to invest is in conversions versus those that don't have it at all? Strader: I guess I -- maybe just a comment. I mean I -- I was sort of looking at this like we have a lot of priorities, we are thinking about earmarking, for example, a huge amount of money toward transportation for unspecified projects and I just -- I view this as a way for us to get more efficient, leaner and meaner. I mean each one of these investments literally does pay for itself. I personally think we have the funds to do it and I don't think it's a zero sum game between streetlight replacements and new streetlights personally. I'm supportive of, you know, at least doubling if not tripling it for next year, with the understanding that Dale could come back and propose something programmatic in a time frame, but I don't want to propose that we will triple the LED upgrades if Dale is going to tell me we just can't get it done from the comments on that. Is that reasonable? Bolthouse: Yeah. And we have -- and we have had a conversation about that. Installing a new streetlight is -- is more intensive. Design and -- and permitting and all the other Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 45 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 42 of 84 kinds of things that have to happen. So, our -- our ability to -- to manage those is -- is more intensive than an LED conversion. But having said that -- in talking to Warren and now they feel comfortable that we -- we could manage a quarter of a million dollars a year in the conversion bucket, if you will if that was -- if that was the desire and -- and there is no magic around that number, but it just feels like that's what we could add to our plate and manage today. Just so you have some updated information, Al got an updated bid on LED conversion and the estimate is actually about 350 dollars net per light, where we have been talking closer to 400 earlier. So, we are continuing to see, you know, the potential for efficiency, decline in the cost of the equipment and the installation cost itself. So, we are looking -- if you want to tackle the whole pot that we talked about, we are closer to 1.7 to 1.75 than we are the two million that we talked earlier. Perreault: Well, I apologize, I know you went over some of these numbers in the last budget workshop, but how many LED conversions are yet to be done on existing installed by? Bolthouse: Yeah. And I -- I have got that here. Hoaglun: And while he is looking that up I want to ask Brad -- the LED -- the conversion is under replacements -- Purser: Correct. Hoaglun: -- and, then, the next page in the book it gets to budget requests and at the bottom of that there is streetlights supplemental projects. Is that actual installation of streetlights or is that something else? Lavoie: The budget request is what Robert was alluding to, it's like let's fill the blank area. So, that's what that is. Hoaglun: Okay. Lavoie: The replacement is kind of where Liz is going, let's do the conversions. Hoaglun: Right. So, we have 75,000 for the conversion right now and 45 for new lights. Okay. Lavoie: Exactly right. Purser: Good question. Bolthouse: So, the city -- to kind of lay some -- some additional facts out, the city has approximately 8,000 lights in our program. Fourteen hundred of those are not city responsibility other than possibly a power bill. That leaves about 6,600 lights and about 1,700 of them are already converted. So, about 26 percent of those are converted. So, that 4,900 that remain at approximately 350 dollars per conversion would be the total Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 46 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 43 of 84 amount of funding in today's dollars that would be required to convert the balance of the high pressure sodium lights that the city is responsible for. Perreault: I'm sorry to ask this again. How much did you say the -- the cost is, approximately, for the new lights and how much does this 45,000 dollar budget -- how many lights does that install for us this year? Bolthouse: So, on the 45,000 dollars you are talking about new lights. Perreault: Right. Bolthouse: And those lights are somewhere between five and seven thousand dollars. So, you are looking at -- I think we throw up eight to ten lights for that -- for that budget. Hoaglun: And you said, Dale, 46 percent of our lights currently in our system have been converted out of the 6,600 approximately? Bolthouse: Twenty-six. Hoaglun: Twenty-six. Okay. I thought, wow, 46, that's great. It didn't seem right. Perreault: That's over the last ten years? Bolthouse: That -- well, all new lights have been spec'd to be LED -- Perreault: Okay. Bolthouse: -- for the last few years, in addition to the lights that we converted. So, it's a mixture of all lights going forward are LED and have been for a few years. Hoaglun: And that's one thing -- you know, I am interested in doing the conversion. It is important. We will be saving money long term. But where we have gaps in the system I think that's -- from a safety standpoint and having -- having lightning, I -- to me seems to be a higher priority and I'm just wondering if-- Congress does this from time to time, they have rent programs or energy efficiency programs that they pass or Department of Energy puts those things out there -- if we utilize those types of monies for a conversion, because that truly meets the need and reduces costs, saves energy, those types of things and we put more of our -- our dollars into putting in streetlights, which are already converted and doing it -- doing it that way, I mean that's just one option. We could still put city dollars into some conversion, but to me I think we would want to flip the ratio a little bit to -- to encourage installation in areas that we don't have them, while still trying to move conversion forward. Perreault: How are the -- how is the installation prioritized? What -- how do you decide which lights will -- will be installed? Is it a safety factor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 47 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 44 of 84 Bolthouse: Yes, it is. And there is -- it's kind of the three legged stool. They look at pedestrian and routes to school as one of those factors. They look at traffic safety and they also look at crime and so those three combined to create a prioritization list and we have got a list and we have got a list that extends a long ways out. Strader: Yeah. I guess what I just keep coming back to, I -- I don't -- I don't think it's an all or nothing decision. I also think -- yeah, I know that whenever grant money and other money is available we will take advantage of it. We definitely don't have anything on the table that I'm aware of in terms of another funding source to do it. You know, my -- my instinct is that at least for the light bulbs that replacing them pays for itself within five years just feels like a no brainer. I mean I don't know if you can help us understand, but if we were to take the 75,000 and turn that into 250,000, can we put some financial metrics behind how much we would save in, you know, ten years, for example, by doing that now, as opposed to waiting? Bolthouse: We have that financial analysis and -- and with the price point at 350 dollars per installation -- and that nets out an Idaho Power incentive that's included in that. When you take the -- the high wattage LED -- or high pressure sodium that's out there, that ROI now falls between three and three and a half years. Strader: Wow. Bolthouse: And on the hundred watt they are out between five and six years. Strader: Yeah. And -- and so -- sorry to just keep jumping around, but I think -- if we are prioritizing the high pressure sodium ones that that type of a repayment time frame -- I mean three years that you can see, then, if you did that with the money that -- that's a -- that's even a better investment than the last one that Dale and I discussed. I personally would be supportive of increasing the replacements piece, the 250, leaving the streetlight installations and, then, having about -- if that can come partially from new construction what that looks like and if there are other competing priorities that we want to take a look at removing or adjusting we could have that discussion. Bolthouse: About 725 of those high pressure sodium lights are the high wattage ones. And, unfortunately, you can't go in and do a street, because they may have a mixture, a combination, but there are areas that we would tend to focus on and we do today to try to get those highest wattage lights converted first. When you consider the -- you know, the general effort, you -- you want to go in and do a stretch of an area regardless of what LED or what high pressure sodium may be there, but there are stretches that we can -- where the bulk of them are the higher wattage lights. Strader: I think one day it might help Council -- I don't know if Finance can do this or if we have it available maybe to follow up, but just to say, okay, for each light bulb that you make this investment, you know, here is the -- so, it's going to pay for itself within three years, so, therefore, ten years after that here is how much we will have saved as a city. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 48 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 45 of 84 If we can do that based on energy usage. And I don't mean to put you on the spot, but -- Bolthouse: Got it. Strader: Okay. Bolthouse: So, put me -- put me on the spot here on this one question. So, 20 years of converted 250 watt light -- in 20 years we will save 1,178 dollars and that drops to 520 dollars in 20 years for the hundred watt conversion. So, that's how you calculate out that you are getting -- you know. So, it's in -- it's giving you that payback a little over three years on the 250 watt and longer on the hundred watt. Strader: I'm so -- oops. Sorry. And so what's the internal rate of return on the investment for 350 dollar conversion per light bulb in ten years? Bolthouse: I don't know if I have got that IRR calculation. Strader: Or just a similar -- similar construct. I think if people want to see that -- to me it's kind of an intuitive thing, but it may not be for everyone. I don't know. Lavoie: Well, Dale, if you said that is a five year return on 350 dollars, that's 70 bucks a year. So, if it takes five years to get the 350, you know you are generating a 70 dollar savings every year. Is that right? Seven times 535? So, in theory, just like for three -- three hundred dollars, you spend 350 bucks it takes three years to get that money back, you are basically doing a hundred dollars a year. That's your ROI mathematical. So, every year after that is a hundred bucks in your pocket. Using his methods it's about 70 dollars in your pocket every year after that fifth year is now cash in hand. If I'm doing the math correctly. Strader: Todd, that is perfect. Hopefully that kind of crystallizes the investment for people in terms of thinking about it. Perreault: And at this point the LED -- Bolthouse: Twenty years. And they don't -- they don't necessarily burn out at 20 years, they decline in -- in illumination output and they consider -- the rule of thumb used to be when they reach about 70 percent of their original illumination is when you would replace them. Borton: I think it makes sense to do some -- and maybe it's a more modest enhancement, not only of this -- understanding that this fall some of these specifics can be ironed out with a more clear rate of return and a decision made prior to next year's budget of how -- and if this wants to be enhanced year over year into Brad's comments, which the Mayor has talked about, it's not a rate of return necessarily, but there is an equal desire to try and get the lights installed in areas where they don't yet exist, which would be a reference Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 49 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 46 of 84 we have had sort of this balanced commitment year over year to do both. So, if this line item is going to increase, I'm supportive of some increase, knowing that there is going to be analysis done this fall and here is what we suggest from the manpower to get it done, it should be a new -- Simison: He has already done it. I mean they can do about 200, 250 thousand dollars a year. That's what they can manage. So, I think that's the number that I have been told by the departments it will take eight years maximum in order to do a complete conversion at that -- based on the staffing levels they currently have. Bolthouse: The city does not do any installation. We do the project management over the streetlight program and we subcontract the installations of new lights and the conversion and maintenance of existing lights. Hoaglun: So, Dale, the 75,000, then, that's currently in there for extra upgrades to LED, you know, if you just divide that by the 350, you're at 214 lights, but is -- is -- is that a true figure or with the fund -- project management, plus the expense, are we -- Bolthouse: No. I think that's -- I think that's an accurate representation. It's -- it's working with averages. Hoaglun: Okay. Perreault: Can you help me understand how you came to that number in relationship to what's been requested in the past and just give me some context for that 75,000? Is it based on actual need? Like you know there is specifically 214 lights that need converted currently or is that --just help me understand how you got that number. Bolthouse: Well, I think as the -- as the program as built it was what Council felt they could allocate to that effort, so -- Strader: So, I can chime in, too. I mean that -- that -- that number in the CFP was cut because we had another project that we had to take out of it. I can't remember now if it was Costco, Winco, which of these projects. It was one of these similar projects that we actually had to use money from that already because we weren't getting reimbursed by ITD's STAR program. I could be going far-- far afield, so someone bring me in, but -- so, actually, like the sustain -- the ongoing number that previous Council funded was a hundred thousand, just to be clear. So, I think the 75 was already cut from where it was. I personally think if -- if 250 is an eight year conversion timeline and we are looking at a 21 year conversion timeline, that would be a huge step in the right direction and, then, we could take a look at it. You know, 200 to me would -- would be double what the previous Council had done. That would also make sense. There is no point going around and around, so I don't know if everybody would like to cut to the chase and people will support that or what they think about it Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 50 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 47 of 84 Hoaglun: Just -- just be curious. So, to correspond, if we increase this where does our decrease fall -- come from I guess? Strader: Well -- and so I kind of look to the Finance Department to some extent. I mean it -- there -- it should be coming from some of the new growth money from my understanding. I would like to keep the streetlight installations the same. I personally think -- it looked like we had a little bit of room in there and, you know, I would like to put it in and, then, have a discussion about our priorities, if we have to cut something else, but -- Borton: I think that's what -- that's what happens is --just for example we say, okay, put in 200,000. Let's go to the next item. Strader: Yeah. Borton: I mean it's on our list. Let's go to the next item. Let's discuss and -- and we will see what gap, if any, we have got to adjust and -- Simison: At that point everything you are doing is fund balance. I mean -- Borton: Yeah. Simison: Is that -- Strader: But I don't think we are ready to make a discussion about specific trade-offs. I think it makes sense to go about this the way Joe is suggesting -- Borton: Include it here and -- Strader: Included it. If we have a huge shortfall we are going to have to cut somewhere, we will figure it out. Hoaglun: That works for me. I was just curious if you had an idea already knowing -- knowing your financial background you look deep, so sometimes -- Strader: I don't have a magic -- a magic bullet on it. We are going to have to cut somewhere else probably, but -- Perreault: Council Woman Strader, when you say additional revenue from growth for funding, is that -- where are you referencing specifically? Purser: I can help you with that. Strader: Throw me a lifeline, Brad. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 51 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 48 of 84 Purser: Yeah. If you are looking at your budget summary, right after the replacements section -- now let me just -- it's at the top of I think page four. Borton: The 2.3 million? Purser: Yeah. We are sitting at 2.3 million now. That, plus revenue available for replacements that -- the combination of the two is what is used to fund budget requests. So, you know -- or it would be -- or you would use fund balance to pay for it. Either way. If -- if we are using up all of this 2.3 million down below in -- in budget requests, then, it would -- then fund balance would be used to pay for it. Or if there is -- we are not using it, then -- then we could use, you know, growth money to do it. Did you follow -- did you -- did hear me? Perreault: I lost you on the last part. Purser: If you -- if you use the entire 2.3 million dollars in budget requests you can either cut some budget requests or use fund balance to pay for it, because right now growth is -- would have been used to pay for these budget requests or if we are not using the entirety, which you scroll down -- I'm not looking at that right. But if you aren't using the entire amount, then, there would be money to use for growth -- that growth would pay for. Are you following me? Perreault: I think so. What I wanted the clarification on is when -- when she mentioned -- when Council Woman Strader mentioned additional revenue from growth I assumed it was something outside of the General Fund. Okay. Purser: No. No. So, we have money that we allocated last year for -- we got last year. Any money above and beyond that you can see on page four that's listed as growth. Todd, you can keep me honest on this, but that's kind of what we are talking about and those funds, in addition to anything that's left -- left over after we pay for replacements, is used to fund budget requests and if there is anything, you know, left over after we fund budget requests, that money is, then, put into fund balance. Or right now we are using fund balance to pay for things. So, you know, this -- which means any money that we add to this without cutting any type of budget request, means that we are going to need to -- we are paying it out of fund dollars -- fund balance dollars. Bernt: Or we need to cut something. Purser: Or we need to, yeah, cut something. Right. And that's that balancing act I guess. Bernt: So, do we -- do we want to add a number and just see where the chips lie at -- at the end of the day and if we need to lower it we can lower it and if it's great we can leave it. Purser: Was the amount of 250? Is that what we were -- okay. We got it then. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 52 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 49 of 84 Borton: As we roll through the next discussion topics see how this changes. Things may come in and out. Purser: Okay. Good. So, that's in there. So, no other replacement discussion? Questions? Cavener: Brad, I have got one. Purser: Sure. Go ahead, Luke. Cavener: For Fire, replacement vehicle, the Ford F-350. I know that we use a metrics to determine vehicles to be replaced. This had a total score of ten. A score of 9.5 means that it should be considered. This particular vehicle can be driven in good condition for at least 18 months. It's got 15,000 miles worth of tread. As I understand, this was on a CFP for replacement in 2020. They extended it an additional year. I'm not opposed to replacing it, I just think that it makes sense that this could be replaced, but we could get another year out of this. And for Council's benefit, the chief and I yesterday we talked through a couple of different items. Mark, if you feel there is anything else that you want to touch on that I missed? Niemeyer: Great. Thanks, Luke. We are good, Dean; right? So, this is our primary battalion 31 vehicle. So, this is a vehicle that's on the road every single day, 365. There are portions of that vehicle's time throughout the year that it is responding code three, which from a public safety standpoint is a little bit harder on the gas, a little bit harder on the brakes. So, this vehicle is starting to show wear. We did replace -- we did delay it last year, as Luke mentioned. It was scheduled to be replaced last year. We did delay that based on the -- the evaluation from the mechanic. There is some concern that we are starting to see more wear and tear on this vehicle and because it's driven every day and driven hard at times that's why it's still in the -- in the CFP and in the budget request for this year. Cavener: So, for Council's benefit, again, you see less than 200 dollars worth of repairs -- you know, I think our emergency response vehicles really seriously when it comes to replacements, but I don't see any compelling information that says this vehicle needs to be replaced this --this year. Again, if it-- if it had a 9.5 instead of ten it would automatically be listed as just considered, because we have exceeded the 9.5 by .5 it's on the list of replacement. I have voiced some of my frustrations with the metrics and how we have used it to determine vehicle replacements in the past and I will brief our new Council from that again. I think it's one of those things that especially in light of our conversations about things that need to be pulled back on our budget, this is one that rises up in here. Purser: Any other discussion on that? Borton: That -- that seems to make sense to me. I feel like we have a metrics for a reason. So, if it hasn't hit that level -- you can always count if we -- if we are -- how -- I don't know-- I don't want to get into the metrics too bad, because it sounds like you should Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 53 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 50 of 84 stay there and I don't want to go there, but if six months into the year we are like, okay, let's reload the metrics, because we are definitely at a ten now, I think that -- that could happen; right? Hopefully. Niemeyer: Yeah. Council, this is a pretty long standing conversation as far as the metrics and all that and I know Chief Lavey has some similar issues at times. The metrics is meant for staff vehicles. It's not designed and it's not revolving around public safety response vehicles that get driven a lot harder, go off road, those sorts of things. The other challenge is -- as Luke and I talked about -- and it's just a -- it's perspective. As we look at our long term replacements, we look year over year over year, there is some big replacements coming in and so the more you delay this replacement you are going to stack it on top of a couple other pretty big requests that are critical. So, it's a matter of how do you spread that out, how do you manage it. That's why it got bumped from last year to this year. Continuing to bump it down the road, just like any other replacement we talk about, whether it's a backhoe or a police car or a fire apparatus, it's all the same. You are bumping that down to, then, stack on top of another pretty big critical replacement of half a million dollars or more. So, it's a matter of how do you space it, how do you plan for it. That's why working with the -- with the Finance Department we moved it from last year to this year to keep the budget balanced. Again, will we survive if we -- if we roll it for another year? We will survive and if it breaks down too much we will come to you with a budget amendment. But it is that stacking effect that our folks that -- that work for the city that have to manage this, then, have to balance how to move stuff around, so, again, I understand the perspective. Luke and I had a good conversation about that. For us it's a matter of how do you maintain a plan if you are continually stacking and moving. Hoaglun: And the fact that, you know, one of the concerns is it is an emergency response vehicle, not -- not a staff vehicle where they are just going to and from work or going to fire stations, going to meetings, doing those normal things and maybe occasionally going out to -- to an issue, but where that's used in those types of situations it's got to be dependable and -- and you have already pushed it out once, so that's where I go, yeah, this is -- two years, just makes it a little more interesting, so -- Cavener: For Council's benefit, if -- I think if there were -- if the report came and that showed there were things that the department was concerned about, if the mileage was higher I probably wouldn't be having this. Again, I think I -- I take a hard look at vehicle replacement every year. I think this is the only one that I thought didn't meet the criteria of replacement. If Council wants to keep it, there is no heartburn on mine, I just -- we have had a lot of conversations this morning about adding to our budget and we haven't had any conversations about reducing our budget yet and so this to me was one of the things that if we having any -- going to have a serious conversation about cost reduction, this is one that makes it -- recognize a year from now we are going to be having the same conversation again. And I won't -- I won't point out that the chief volunteered to maybe give up his vehicle replacement for next -- Niemeyer: Yeah. And I know -- I heard Lavey make a similar comment, that priority for me in my department is to make sure that our firefighters that are working every single Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 54 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 51 of 84 day have what they need. Now, if that means sacrificing a staff vehicle or something else then -- then that's what it means. We do have our -- if you want to hear more, we have our logistics chief in the room, as well as one of the current battalion chiefs, and the reality is they drive those vehicles every day, not me. So, I know when we met with Luke there is some concern about transmission being a little shaky and whatnot, even though it wasn't identified in the report. So, if you want to hear from the horse's mouth of the person that drives that vehicle every day we can certainly have them come up. Strader: Maybe a different question. But I did not dive nearly as deeply into the vehicle replacements as I think Councilman Cavener has. Are there staff vehicle replacements that are similarly on the edge or that are in this budget that we should take a look at as we are prioritizing these. So, a prioritization of the vehicle replacements, seeing if there are staff vehicles that are being replaced, maybe we should have that conversation in the context as well. I did not go deeply into the vehicle replacements like you did. But anyway — Purser: I think what Councilman Cavener was discussing, I know two others are in parks, but, you know, one is a 2000 Chevy Silverado. It's 20 years old. I don't have the details in front of me. The other one is a 1997 -- looks like F-150. That is also really old. I think those were passed on from another department as well. I could be wrong. But I think those are the only other two vehicles outside of the PD and I know there is some CID vehicles and there are some cruisers that PD are looking to replace as well. I don't know if there is any discussion about that, but, you know, that kind of encapsulates everything. Niemeyer: I think councilman was steering to that point -- and I don't want to speak on behalf of all the directors, but we vet this pretty hard before you get your budget book. We know this is a -- can be a sensitive topic. I think every department looked and said can we pull this? Yes. I know we did. We pulled a pub ed vehicle that we just said not yet. Not now. And I think every department does this, because it is a big ticket item. So, I think we do a lot of vetting before we submit it to you for consideration for sure. Strader: No doubt that we do. Just seems like it -- we are talking about holding off on one vehicle replacement, maybe it's good to have the context of what the others are. Those sound really old to me. Borton: Yeah. I think to Councilman Cavener's credit, the questions that you asked -- part of how we have got this objective scoring metrics in the first place is because we didn't have it not too long and so it seemed -- felt maybe a little more subjective. So, these good questions led to this scoring metrics, led to these reviews, which -- which, then, create this dividing line of when a vehicle is objectively eligible for replacement or not, to try and help us not get in the moosh, even with good intentions it's tough to articulate without the criteria. So, I think -- I thought the criteria made good sense. Simison: So, just --just to double check, then, did this meet the criteria or did it not meet the criteria? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 55 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 52 of 84 Cavener: This -- this has a score of ten. Hoaglun: Okay. Cavener: To achieve a score of 9.5 you would only be -- should be considered. A score of 13.3 means it needs immediate review and attention and that replacement is highly recommended. And, again, some of the criteria that goes into developing the score if the condition of the vehicle is listed as in good condition, it's use in public safety gets higher than say a Parks vehicle and the mileage and the years of service. So, 9.5 it could be considered. At 5.7 it's considered in good working order, should not be replaced. So, this is -- it's a ten with a couple hundred in repair works, tires still in good condition, vehicle seems to be in good working condition. And to me one of the things that I always look at is can the vehicle be -- I will just read it. Is the vehicle safe to drive for the next 18 months or 10,000 miles, with no additional maintenance or repairs performed and it's listed as yes. So, to me those are -- those are some of the things that I think go a little bit deeper than just the number that's associated with it and I agree with you, I think Council Member Borton hit the nail on the head. Years ago we would spend half a day talking about vehicle replacements. This is leveling us up as our -- if, oh, no, I think there is some more polishing on this that we could achieve, but that's more subjective and I just felt that, again, this one -- while definitely was going to need to be replaced sooner rather than later, it didn't meet the need for immediate replacement. Hoaglun: So, there is some -- if a ten for a Fire vehicle versus a ten for a Parks vehicle, there would still be some decision, okay, that ten ranks higher than that ten if we had to make -- Cavener: Right. Because at that point a ten for a Parks vehicle is likely going to have higher years of service, higher mileage and -- and in probably worse condition; right? Because a public safety vehicle scores higher automatically because of its emergency needs than a vehicle for Parks or the Mayor's office. Hoaglun: Right. For a reason. Yeah. Yeah. Cavener: If this was -- if this vehicle was in the Parks Department it likely would have fallen under that ten threshold. It would have fallen at an eight, because an emergency response vehicle -- Borton: Is enhanced. Cavener: As it should. As it should. Borton: So, ten sits on the fence and, then, you cancel a ten -- you cancel a ten you get to make that decision and decide to include or exclude for the year, understanding if it's excluded and an issue arises we will -- we will deal with it and/or expense is some of the gamble, but -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 56 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 53 of 84 Hoaglun: So, then, it's a matter of, okay, if we push it to next year, then, back to the chief's point, how does that impact other replacement items that would be coming forward from the Fire Department? Cavener: At that point we would have another year to look at the miles. Strader: I think it might make sense to hold off and I -- I don't think it's daunting to have multiple replacements. I'm sure we can manage through that as we are doing our planning. I would hope. We will be mindful of that in our planning. Borton: So, in or out is the question for this. It's in. Is there any consensus that for now this one should be removed? Cavener: I think if we are putting up a list of kind of addition for consideration, this makes sense that we would put this on the list for consideration for removal, recognizing the final decision will yet to be made later on this afternoon. Unless, again, more of you are like, no, we think this justifies -- it meets metrics and we want to leave it in regardless, then, let's just do that and lets move along. Hoaglun: I wouldn't mind -- if -- if we have someone who drives the vehicle, chief, of hearing from them just to get their perspective, just to make sure we have first-hand understanding of the vehicle. Niemeyer: We do and I notice he is -- he is not looking at me yet, but we have a battalion chief in the room that might be able to address driving the vehicle every day. Either way. Hoaglun: We get to put you on the spot. I'm sure you came really wanting to speak today. Yeah. Winkler: So, the realistic portion of this that you need to look at, besides the fact is are we kicking the can down the road later, but we are on that cusp of things and this thing has to be reliable. Some of the things that we will find that you are not seeing in that report right there are things that the guys that are driving -- driving on a daily basis are telling me. I have had a lot of reports about it having shifting problems to mechanics can't find anything -- you are not going to be able to open up these things and -- without getting a large bill saying, hey, pull the transmission out so I can take a look at it and see what's wrong with it. What we don't want is this thing to be breaking down when they go on a call. That's what it really boils down to. The other thing is -- is Councilman Cavener and I talked a little bit yesterday, because, you know, he is used to let's drive these things into the dirt and I think in his words is is we will -- we can't get blood out of a turnip, which my grandmother used to use that on a regular basis and it's still with me, too. The thing is is at some point in time where are we going to get our -- get a return on our investment a little bit, too. This vehicle is at that point where it's, like you said, it's on the fence, if we were to sell it today it's still worth more money at auction than it is going to be in two or three years. So, you can take that to offset some of the costs in the vehicle; right? So, those are some of the things you kind of got to consider about it also. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 57 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 54 of 84 Hoaglun: So, I guess, you know, one of the things is if it's your vehicle and there may be some issues what would you do with it if it's your personal vehicle, that -- that decision point. So, might be different answers for different people. Strader: Don't ask me that question. Bernt: I think that in this particular case I think maybe taking it out and see what -- and moving on probably would be the prudent option at this point. So, this should -- let's take it out and see what the budget looks like and go from there. Perreault: I have a quick Council Member newbie question. There are no -- we already calculated in potential income receipts for selling the vehicle. How does that work? Niemeyer: Todd, do you want to take this or you want -- got this? Lavoie: I will do it. So, the City of Meridian when we sell our vehicles we do not put the revenue source into the revenue stream due to the unknown nature of the vehicles. We get 500 dollars for some cars, we get three grand for some cars. So, it's a very rough estimate. But we do not add that as a revenue source. So, in theory it becomes extra revenue when we do come across that. So, right now 80 grand that you see there is the cost with no revenue offset based on that nature of the unknown. Bernt: With the agreement to the chief gets a Prius, not a big truck. Niemeyer: I'm game. I will drive anything. Bernt: Okay, buddy. Purser: I do think it's important to -- just to recognize when -- when you look at the CFP and the next year there are two additional vehicles similar to what we are talking about here and there is an additional firetruck, about 780. So, this does stack to that. Just want to give you that information. Okay. So, put that on the list as taking it out; correct? Okay. Moving on then. Any other replacement discussion? We are good? Okay. Let's start off with budget requests. So, if you move down in that budget summary you can see -- you know, they are listed out. We have gone through them, you know, on the 17th. We have some colors as far as, you know, what's involved there. You can also see them up on the screen. Simison: Brad, just to get it going, can you remove the transportation, the -- Borton: Other government? Simison: Yes. Purser: Oh, the transportation projects? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 58 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 55 of 84 Simison: The transportation projects. The community grant participatory budgeting and the -- Bernt: Commuteride? Simison: Commuteride. Purser: Commuteride? Commuteride, there was more involved in the benefits than just the Commuteride, wasn't it? Simison: It was. But there was -- Purser: Twenty grand? Okay. All right. We got that in there. Okay. With that any other -- any questions about any of the remaining budget requests? Cavener: Just an update for Council. Again, I met with Fire yesterday and we talked about the heart saver alarm tones at all five stations. The cost on that budget request being -- suspect it was too low for me. Too affordable. And so Fire -- Fire agreed that they are going to go out for bid and just see what the bid is on that and that they will bring that back before we finalize. If the cost is around -- I think we should be okay. If it is higher than what we initially anticipated we can remove that at a later date. Niemeyer: Council, I can answer that. We had a great meeting with Luke on this one as well. The heart saver tones, just so you know, that's the ramp up tones in the stations. What we have in our other five stations right now -- not Station Six -- it just comes on full volume. There is no way to kind of ramp it up. And studies have shown on the cardiac muscle when you wake up from a dead sleep or you are not expecting -- imagine you almost get in a wreck and you feel that adrenaline, that's the studies that they have shown medically that can have an influence on your heart and so we want to better our employees safety in the firehouse. So, this was a verbal quote that we got on what it would take to do that at our other five stations. I think I mentioned to you when we finished Station Six we would be looking at our other existing stations to see what we need to implement. So, that was a verbal quote. I questioned this a little bit as well that -- that was a quote that we got verbally, so we are going to go out, as Luke said, and get some formal bids on this just to make sure we are --we are with the right amount on that request. Purser: And so just looking at top part in the admin section, is there any part or discussion -- Jenny, can you scroll up slightly. Or in the -- yeah. In the admin section, if there is anything there for Fire. Strader: I -- Purser: Council Woman Strader. Strader: Are we -- are we kind of hopping around different departments for the budget requests? I don't want to call them enhancements. Requests. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 59 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 56 of 84 Purser: If you want to look at the -- like the admin section. So, if you look up to the screen there you can see from clerks down to the streetlights and when we can -- we can see them one by one. The Mayor has some of them. Strader: Yeah. Purser: Are there any-- I think there is a half a dozen of them there. Any questions about any of those? Starting with movable furniture -- Bernt: Yeah. I don't think we need to go through them one by one. Purser: Okay. You know, if you have -- something pops out or if you have a question on any of those now is the time. Strader: Okay. Perreault: Sorry. For clarification I saw that you had removed the two line items for community project funding and transportation projects. If I understand correctly, the community project funding was the funds that were being used for MYAC and other similar programs. Can you share with us the thinking behind removing that? Simison: Well, it was the participatory budgeting process that we talked about moving to a community grant type program, but in light of where the budget currently is I don't feel comfortable leaving those two items in. They are small. But until Council provides an offset for what we have done I'm removing stuff that I don't think should be a priority in this budget. Strader: I don't see anything until in the Parks area -- Purser: Nothing on admin? Okay. Anything on Fire? I know we have -- we have discussed some things there. Borton: The only--the only question I had on Fire was utilizing impact fees for the design of Fire Station Eight. I think it's a bigger discussion I mentioned to the Mayor, designing seven and eight concurrently. Granted, it's impact fees, so it doesn't address -- or it doesn't have any direct impact on the other issues we are discussing today, but it is impact fee funds, but we need to utilize and expand that fund for any -- concurrently with seven. I think that's a bigger discussion. Bernt: Right. Yeah. Borton: I don't know if we resolve it today necessarily, but -- I don't have my head around doing two stations at the same time. Bernt: Which is a deeper philosophical -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 60 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 57 of 84 Borton: If it stays in the -- Simison: And to the point -- Borton: Mini font. Niemeyer: In the spirit of our CFO. Borton: That was the only question I had on Fire. Simison: Until we see where this goes and if there are no adjustments made to the revenue we cannot afford, basically, as we are planning on moving forward for personnel. So, that's --to Councilman Borton's point, if there is not a path or staffing for Station Eight, then, you can take it out and not fund any of the cost associated with it. Strader: Quick question. Because, yeah, I remember this came up in the last workshop, because it felt like 1.2 million or whatever this was was a huge amount for design alone. Can we still plan to acquire the land for both stations, still plan to co-locate the police and the fire department together, but hold off just on -- and maybe use, hopefully, the same design that we used for one station to the next station? Can we still kind of get some of the cost savings and synergy of co-locating them together, even if we phased this a little bit more I guess would be my question. Niemeyer: Council, I will try and answer some pretty high level question, because I think to your point, Joe, there is a bigger discussion here certainly. But the question I got asked the last budget session was with the cost what does that include and I didn't think quickly enough to articulate the breakdown of design. There is the pre-design services and work. There is the design services and work. And, then, there is really post design work that's still part of that package during the construction phase. So, the spreadsheet you have before you -- I apologize for the small font, but you can see that breakdown of the different aspects of design and what you would be paying for with design. You can also see a breakdown of -- if we did a standalone station, for example, designed Station Seven and didn't worry about eight right now, what does that cost look like and, then, coming back later to do design work for Station Eight and how does that cost look. The synergy you gain by doing both of the designs at the same time, even though you say the floor plan, we want it to be identical, no changes, but they still have to do land testing, soil testing, compact testing, compaction testing, because that could completely change the architectural design of one. So, you will lose that synergy and cost savings if you separate them out and say let's just do seven now, we will do eight later, even though you may be doing the same exact floorplan, you are losing some of that synergy and, then, to take that further down the road, you are, then, losing synergy when you go out for construction bidding, because now it's two separate projects, as opposed to bidding on two projects. So, that's kind of that -- that cost savings. If you add the layer of the Police Department, which certainly we are still working through with Jeff and his team and the Mayor on co- locating, does that make sense -- again, you have that designed all at one time you are going to save money. The savings here is an estimate from the firm we used for Station Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 61 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 58 of 84 Six. They said this is a very very conservative estimate. Once you get into it are there further savings? They say absolutely yes, but they are not willing to put it on paper. As the chief I'm not willing to overpromise and underdeliver. So, this is a pretty conservative estimate on the savings that you could see through the design aspect. To Joe's point it is impact fee eligible. We have worked with Todd and his team. We have the money in that impact fee budget. Now, so for us having that shovel ready project while the discussions still going on is not a bad thing -- for us to have the design done, the plans done and drawn up, but certainly that's the conversation here. Perreault: Chief, so we have budget item for land for Station Seven, but not for Station Eight, obviously, but there is a -- there is land identified, otherwise, they wouldn't be able to do the design. Niemeyer: Yeah. So, Station Eight land has been purchased by the fire district. We have had a long standing great relationship with them. So, that's why it's not included right now. Station Seven, that would be the city purchasing that land. Again, that's two acres being purchased for 78,000 dollars, plus some permitting, so that's why the request is 90 and, then, two acres being donated, which allows us the room that if we do a collaboration with the Police Department on a precinct it allows us the room to be able to do that. Can you share with us or do you know an estimate of cost savings that we would have with putting the fire and police stations in the same location versus having a police station in a separate location? I know that's a broad question. Bernt: They are going to be the same location. Niemeyer: Yeah. To answer that question I probably can't speak to what the design cost would be solely for the Police Department, if they did a standalone precinct. I'm assuming -- similar if we look at the square footage that Jeff and I had talked about, they are pretty similar in square footage, so I would imagine very similar cost for a standalone. Hoaglun: One of the things, too, you have to consider is if we decide we can only afford one, as opposed to two, is the fact right now pointing to the northwest, that's seven, southeast is eight, does that -- does that remain in the order that we do them? Bernt: Right. And that's a great point, Councilman Hoaglun. I don't know if that -- that's for sure a discussion that we can have in the future, not-- I don't know if that's necessarily a discussion we have today, but great point. Borton: The station to be designed -- call it seven, eight, nine, ten -- station design for a station versus two stations -- the location of it and those details is a bigger discussion. Whether there is two that's viable, that's a -- definitely needs to get on a workshop discussion for all of us, but I just raised the question, because it -- what we know now I just -- I didn't contemplate how it's really feasible to design both and it just seemed as if you designed number two and allocate money to number two before you really had your head around --we had our head around the commitment to do number two and if number two would be built in three years or seven years or two years or seven years, for example, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 62 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 59 of 84 is there really value in designing something now if there is a possibility it gets built in five, six, seven years, as opposed to two or three. So, that was the reason that it made sense that the next station -- what is it? Seven? Right? Fund the design, but keep the impact fee -- keep your powder dry in the impact fee fund for the second fire station until we have our head around the where and the when from capital expenditures and the labor costs associated with it. This is a much bigger leap than -- number two is a bigger leap than number one for a fire station, so -- it doesn't adjust the challenges maybe today, but just put it back in the impact fee fund. Niemeyer: Thank you. I can -- I can probably speak to that a little bit. You know, we have -- I don't know -- several years ago we -- we got comfortable with the design, if you will, of our fire engines. So, now when -- when we talk about a new fire engine it's a rinse and repeat. We call up Pierce and we say rinse and repeat that, because we are very comfortable with that spec. Similarly with fire stations, we are -- we are very comfortable with the floor plan anyway of Station Six, with some minor tweaks that we have identified where we can cut some square footage here and there and what we envision is a rinse and repeat. The only thing that would change is potentially the outside, because if we are moving to a -- a commercial location we may make the outside a little more commercial, as opposed to a residential, which these two stations are going to be predominantly residential, making those fit more the community and more of the neighborhood. But the floor plan itself, from a consistency standpoint, a rinse and repeat standpoint, that's what we envision is not every time we build a station we tweak a brand new floor plan, we just say let's pull out the old one and make sure it's still current to code and move forward. So, that -- that was the thought process of whether we build Station Eight in two years, three years, five years, seven years, to your point, we have the design done and we are happy and comfortable with the floor plan. That was the thought. I know schools have done something very similar. They don't reinvent the wheel every time they build a new school, they kind of pull out the old floor plan. Simison: And I think I would just say this to the chief, the real question is if you think we need it and, then, can we afford it. The chief has a plan to make it work from a staffing perspective, you know, having people ready to roll into it. They have been working on that. They feel comfortable. So, really, the question more for Council is if you don't think one or both of these are needed, then, let's have that conversation a lot sooner rather than later, so we can make that decision. But they are moving operationally toward being able to open them both within four years and if that's the -- if we are not going to fund it or prepare for it, then, we can backtrack on that and they can modify. But they have -- they have got a plan to make it happen if we have the funding and whether you think it's possible that we should make it happen. Borton: I think that's -- that's the discussion. You are spot on. So, if that happens before September 1 or October 1 -- it doesn't happen today, though. It certainly needs to happen, because there is a huge funding mechanism that any plan is contingent upon, so having the collective group on board with however that plan is to be laid out will be key, so I don't know how soon you guys can bring that up. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 63 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 60 of 84 Simison: Once you determine your -- what your budget looks like today that will be the start of that conversation, so -- your potential -- as of right now you are potentially adding a five million dollar hit -- million dollars a year to the ongoing, which is to process that would be the station with the STEP plan. But those are -- that's what we are going to get into. If you use those funds and you don't find revenue for those, you are essentially putting the station as a not possible option for one of them. Borton: I'm not going to -- ooh. Simison: Based on the -- Borton: It's tempting to debate. I don't agree with you necessarily. I think that's a big leap. Simison: Based on the balancing of the five year CFP that's what it will take. Borton: But the CFP -- but the CFP has assumptions built into it that we are not necessarily all on board with, so if we assume in its current state, yes. If we assume something different and the CFP is comprised of different components, then, no. So, I think that's -- that's the good debate. When we have this collective discussion I think will help flush that out for us to get our heads around, if you do X you are doing that in lieu of Y. And to your point I think what you are saying is -- it's just that. We have gone down a path of this, which precludes us from doing something else. But we got to make sure we are all on the same path. That's all. So -- and if it stays in, quite frankly, yeah, it could stay in, but we still have to have the discussion. I mean you can leave in the design for both, but we have to have a big cough really soon to see are we on board with what you suggest and to make that financial commitment in capital and labor to make that happen that quick. And if we are, then, great, we can all budget accordingly. But if we are not we need to know that, too. I just thought funding -- the second station we will call it seemed a little bit ahead of the curve for that conversation. If it stays in, if everyone wants it in, I don't have heartburn necessarily. It's impact fee funds. I just want to have that conversation soon. So, your planning and your operations don't get hamstrung later in the game if there is financial constraints, so I guess the Tuesday, 11:30 a.m., question is for the purpose of moving along does -- if it stays in it stays in. That's fine. Just -- I raise the question of the second station design costs from impact fees. Remain in? Or not. And we can move on. Strader: I guess I would just ask a question. Exactly how much -- I'm -- this font is very small for me. Exactly how much money are we saving by designing both at one time and that might help me to quantify the wisdom of moving forward on both. Niemeyer: Council Woman Strader, I'm going to preface this a little bit with -- when you say exact savings I can't give you that, because what we have in preliminary savings based on what we see in front of us is 175 to 200 thousand dollars. If we take the word of the architect to say there is -- there is quite a bit more out there potentially, I can't give you exact. So, what I can give you is the most conservative value I can possibly give. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 64 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 61 of 84 Strader: And so if I'm -- if I'm reading this correctly, so we are talking about maybe a ten percent savings? Does that sound about right? Simison: Twenty-five to thirty percent if you were to do them separately. Strader: Yeah. That's what I'm trying to understand. You know, if we make the decision today, we just don't -- we are not ready to do them together from a design perspective and maybe we are going to have a discussion about getting the land and -- there is a lot of different ways to do it, but part of it's doing -- there is a whole bunch of stuff going on, but the point being what is -- I'm trying to understand the magnitude of the cost savings by making the decision today to design both today. Niemeyer: And what I can give you minimum is 175 to 200 thousand minimum. Cavener: And, Mark, is that reflected on here that I'm missing? Niemeyer: So, if you look, the second column -- so, Station Six is what it costs us for design. So, that's into the construction phase of that design project it was 617,000. If we look at the inflationary value four years this is what they gave us, 691,000 for one station. If you combine Station Seven and Eight, it's 617 for Station Seven and 442 for Station Eight. Those --those you are looking at your savings. And, then, you can see additionally, if you were to add a PD precinct to each one of those stations you can see the cost there as well. Perreault: So, chief, help me understand if -- if the designs are so similar -- I understand the differences in cost of pre-design services, basic services, that's really for the structural elements, groundwork, but if the floor, if the -- the building designs are so similar then -- then under the estimated design team fees why is there such a high figure for Station Eight? I mean what is it that they were doing that's going to be different from Station Seven if-- if the building designs are -- are so similar? Or am I not understanding what's included in that section? Niemeyer: So, great question, Council Woman, and I am not an engineer, I'm not a designer, so I would have to get the subject matter experts in here to truly answer that question for you. Lavey: Hey, Mark, I just -- I would like to point out, too, if you have done any sort of work with architects that's based upon a percentage of the project costs. It's not really broke down into -- this is going to cost this much, it's going to cost this much, it's -- if you have a four million dollar building we are going to charge eight percent or ten percent or 11 percent and that's how the construction end will work as well. So, probably because it's delayed, increased costs to the ratio of that percentage, so -- also I just -- one other thing I would like to point out is that in listening to some of the Council Members opinions about what should come first, north or south, there is a conflict in Police and Fire. So, if we are going to have a joint facility and the priority for Police is north and the priority for Fire is Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 65 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 62 of 84 south then, we, can't build together or build only one building. I just will point out to you that the priority for Police is north. Cavener: I think that's where it comes back to Council Member Borton's comment. We have never really even had a full conversation about co-locating Police and Fire together and what our vision is for that as -- as a city, so I think there is a lot of potential ideas that we think each of us are formulating, but we haven't had that discussion. And, chief, from the Fire impact fees, the only thing we can use those fees for are related towards a new building and so to Council Member Borton's comment, if -- if we say for this purpose of this budget we are going to fund the design of one station, the spending authority -- and that's not to say that we don't bring that up for a future conversation after we have maybe a more larger conversation about where we are headed as a city, that can bring a budget amendment and we head down that way. I mean if your -- if the city's impact fees pertaining to Fire, we use that to build new buildings, so I mean -- I think there is a good conversation here, but I think we would have a much better -- much more framed conversation at a later point in time to Council Member Borton's point, a very soon to be future workshop agenda that we can talk about the merits of co-locating and we have placed such a high emphasis on co-locating that we think maybe we should do one in the north first or is there more of a need for a station in the south? I live in the south, so I have my definite opinions, but I think our folks who live in the north probably have their opinions as well, but until we get the chance to really kind of noodle on that as a Council some of this is a little premature. So, I'm supportive I think for the conversation moving forward is keeping just the funding for one station now, whether that's south or the north, to be determined at a later point. Whether it includes the police substation or not, that's another conversation at another time. But for the budgetary purposes spending authority, I'm comfortable with having just one. Lavey: And, Councilman Cavener, I will just point out, too, that there is no real cost savings for the Police to co-locate with Fire when it comes to building the actual building, because the costs are the costs. Cavener: Sure. Lavey: For us, if you recall, we had that discussion on locating the precinct at a different place -- Cavener- Yeah. Lavey: -- and that kind of fell through and, then, it re -- came up here recently and we told them we moved on. So, the real cost savings is -- is the land and so we have went out there and -- and looked at land prices for a standalone facility for just police in areas that we thought would work and so the cost savings you are going to get is -- is the land. You are not going to save much by cohabitating on the building. Perreault: Is there any operational benefit of having them located together? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 66 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 63 of 84 Lavey: You know, when we were actually sitting down together there is -- there are probably not. There is minimal. You could probably share a workout facility, but because of the CJIS security standards and the privacy for the firefighters that actually need to sleep and that, they have to be separated. So, there is probably -- you might be able to get a little bit of HVAC savings tied in, that sort of thing, but there is not much. Hoaglun: I think, chief, the design -- doing that together there is savings and, then, if you are a separate location, then, you have got a separate land evaluation, soil compaction, all that -- all that normal construction stuff that has to take place before a building is built. Since it's one building, as opposed to two separate, there would probably be some cost savings there, so -- Lavey: And that's true. You got the same crews are on one site, all that. So, there is some -- some cost savings that you just can't put a value to right now. But, yeah, of course there is. And -- and that's really why we were talking about building two stations, too, is -- is there is cost savings there as well. If you can bid it out, the big job, with one contractor and when they build -- when they get done with the foundation at one they move to the next, you have to cost savings there as well, because you don't have big equipment issues and have to get new crews, subcontractors and stuff. So, it's really just a plan that we have come up with to try to save the taxpayers money, but we can also do it standalone as well. Simison: Yeah. The savings is primarily in the construction. So, the land -- as along as the departments build like -- they are in the right location, you don't even have to think of them as one building, whether they are or they aren't, they are just on the same adjacent pieces of property, if they were built at the same time would have a cost savings to the taxpayers and if they are not, then, you will have the same standalone costs that you would pay when they are built separately, so -- Borton: How do you want to treat station number two? Again -- and this --we are starting -- there is, obviously, a desire to get into this conversation, but for today how do we want to deal with station two, the design -- Hoaglun: From design. Borton: Not doing anything other than including -- or excluding design costs impact the -- a second station. Discussion to remove it. Bernt: I'm in favor to remove it. Hoaglun: I'm in favor of not removing from the standpoint of -- if this is a savings for the taxpayers why would you not do that. Where design is going to be the same and this is -- you know, we talk about LED conversions and after three and a half years there is a 70 dollar a year savings, this is a big dollar savings right off the bat. So, that's -- that's my perspective on it. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 67 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 64 of 84 Cavener: I hear where you are coming from and I think when it comes to savings that's, obviously, I think all of our ears perk up. My hesitation is around -- if we are not going to be in a position to build that building that's designed in very short fashion after it's been designed, do we run the risk of -- Bernt: Having to do it again. Cavener: -- efficiencies from another building being built that, oh, we -- had we known we would do it this way and now we have got a building designed and now maybe those costing savings are lost, because now we are redesigning. I think also the pieces about how PD is incorporated leave a lot of questions up in the air and that's why I think where my hesitation is too hold it, because we just don't have a lot of clarity about where we are -- where we are going to go. So, I hear where you are coming from and I think that the cost savings intrigued me, especially early on, I just wondering if those cost savings would ever actually be actualized if we are not going to be in a position to build these buildings with the time table that we initially hoped. Hoaglun: And I understand, Councilman Cavener, that -- I mean that's -- that's a logical argument and it makes sense. It's just that what point will we know I guess back to that conversation Councilman Borton's saying we need to have, is -- so do we leave it in until we have that conversation, then, take it out and is that now and we have that before August and we actually set the budget -- these are impact fees, so it really doesn't affect the bottom line for the general operations, we can still bank those and have it available. So, that's -- that's not an issue. But, yeah, what -- I -- that's a good question. Simison: And even if they are in the budget if they move forward, they won't be spent. I mean this is one of those which is -- it's more perception than reality, you know, because it's not going to impact any of the -- any of the budgets no matter how you do it, whether you put it in the budget now and you take it out in August, do a budget amendment in October, that's -- that's really -- Cavener: Mr. Mayor, I agree with you, except for that I -- I feel like that when you have committed to a budget that's -- you are communicating that to the public and if that's not the direction that we are going to go, I would -- I would rather add it at a later point in time and communicate that to the public than to communicate to the public we are designing two, this is where we are headed, and, then, roll that back if we are not moving forward throughout the course of the year. Just as a perception. Simison: Yeah. That -- to your point that is -- that is what you would be essentially doing, just like removing it, it's all about perception, but you are not going to go there. So, both have merit. Perreault: I would say I'm -- my thoughts are -- are in line with Councilman Hoaglun, there is a significant time -- time that past between Station Five being built and Station Six being built and there were a lot of improvements that were made, a lot of technology that had come to be a lot of changes in how the Fire Department functioned. Is there -- to Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 68 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 65 of 84 Councilman Cavener's point, is there anticipation that there will be that much more significant changes? Can you talk to us about what changes were made from Station Five to Six? Was it number of staffing? Was it how the building was designed? Give us an idea of -- if there are potential changes in design that would come in five to seven years what those would be. Obviously, you can't predict the future, but help us give a context. If we are sitting here talking about delay because there might be changes to the design in five years, is that realistic and what -- what are your thoughts? Niemeyer: Yeah. Great question. I was going to chime in on this. As to the changes in design, I don't anticipate many. We designed -- we were very thoughtful in Station Six. We got the involvement of the firefighters, we have since received feedback from the firefighters on the good and the bad about Station Six and the good far outweigh the bad. There is some minor tweaks we can make. Again to the point of our fire engines, we anticipate moving forward that it's going to be a rinse and repeat. We have seen other fire departments do that very successfully. There is no sense recreating the wheel for something that works great. The changes that I can't even predict in my opinion -- and I will look to Dave Tiede -- would probably come more from a technology standpoint, as opposed to a floor plan workflow, clean environment standpoint. I don't anticipate us ever going back to carpet as an example. We are going to have concrete floors throughout all of our stations moving forward. The layouts of the bedrooms currently flow really nice into the bays. I don't see that changing. The gyms the firefighters love. I don't see that changing. Should I see major design changes moving forward? No, I see a template being built that's going to be replicated long after I'm gone and long after most of us are gone when we add station whatever, 10, 11, 12. So, to the point of cost savings of getting them both designed, I still support it. I -- there is an old saying about stepping over a penny and even, then, 175,000 -- to have -- whether Station Eight is two years, three years, ten years from now, to have that project shovel ready to avoid the delays that we realized in Station Six, because it had been ten years since we built a fire station, I would like to set the department up better than that. Again, impact fee money, we can have that debate. I can skin that cat a lot of different ways. You can approve one now, I can come back and give a presentation and you say let's do two and I do a budget amendment -- I understand the conversation, but to me we are not going to be changing the design significantly. We may change the exterior. It may be blue, as opposed to green. It may be metal roof versus shingles. I don't know. Some of those smaller details as far as where we move into. As far as Station Seven or Eight, I will just tell you now it's a flip of the coin. I had this conversation with Luke yesterday. If it was nine months ago and you were to say, chief, where is the next station I would have said northwest. With the rooftops, with the Oaks, with the school, with the Highway 20-26 expansion, that's driving the data to say there. Now as I look out and I drive out south and I go out to that property around Discovery Park with the park being furthered, with the rooftops out there, it's a flip of the coin from a data perspective on which one's next. Now it's kind of opinions chiming in about which one is first and which one is second. Bernt: Right. And that's -- and that's a different discussion. So, where do we stand right now? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 69 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 66 of 84 Strader: Yeah, I -- so, I'm just -- where I'm probably falling out now, I'm not convinced of the wisdom of designing both, but I would like to approve it in here to give us the flexibility. That's kind of where I'm thinking is kind of along Brad's lines, like I would prefer to put it in, but know that it will be heavily scrutinized and we will have a separate meeting between now and the end of August to have this big picture discussion and there is a good chance it gets taken out. But I would like to leave it in for now, because I don't think we can go the other direction from what I understand about the process. Bernt: So, yes or no? Perreault: Yeah. I'm in agreement with -- Bernt: Okay. Perreault: -- Council Woman Strader. I want to say one other thing. The benefit I also like to having both designs done is if we are able to -- if our revenue situation changes, if there is a scenario that comes from federal funds that are to be used -- I don't know. We don't know yet what those will be approved for or not. I like the idea that we have a design ready if we are able to -- to actually realize cost savings in the construction piece of doing both -- of building both at the same time. If we are able to realize cost savings in that I want to have the design ready for that, so -- Bernt: Okay. Got ayes. Brad? Hoaglun: Keep it in. Bernt: Okay. Liz. Strader: Keep it in for now, but I want to have a big picture discussion for that. Bernt: Luke? Cavener: Leave it in. I think -- and I agree with my three colleagues, it's in the Mayor's budget, we are going to have a bigger conversation about this likely sometime in July and we will have the opportunity to discuss this again before we approve the final budget, so I'm supportive of leaving it based on the feedback. Bernt: There you go. Purser: Thank you. All right. I know there is some -- anything else on Fire? Good. I think we are good. Parks and Rec. I know there is some discussion there. Strader: Yep. Oops. Hello. Purser: Council Woman Strader. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 70 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 67 of 84 Strader: I -- the master plan update I just -- I will let Steve Siddoway -- I feel really bad. I promise I'm not trying to pick on you. I have honed in on this one and I just -- I am not convinced -- I don't know where I'm looking here. Yeah. I'm just not convinced that we need the, you know, Parks and Rec master plan update this year. I remember our last conversation was kind of, hey, we put this last on our list for a reason. We are getting a lot of other feedback from the open space survey, a ton of other citizen engagement. personally think this can wait a year and so I would like to take it out. Purser: Anymore discussion on that or -- Councilman Hoaglun. Hoaglun: I would like to hear from Steve to talk about the need for the master plan. Bernt: Hey, Steve, before you start, just -- just so that we know, we have an Executive Session that starts in five minutes and lunch and so -- Siddoway: Okay. I can be brief. Bernt: I don't know if-- okay. Is that okay? Siddoway: Yes. Council Woman Strader is correct and I'm not feeling picked on, so we are good. It was placed last for a reason. It was our lowest priority. I do feel that nothing truly falls apart if it is postponed a year. I felt it was my duty to bring it forward, because we are at the five year mark for the existing master plan and like I mentioned last time, we have grown so much as a city, approximately 30,000 people, I thought that it was worth talking about whether it is time to fully re-survey the population to update that. Also we built five major new parks in those five years and get all the GIS information updated for the level of service analyses, et cetera. It was also a way to bring forward the idea of the cost analysis that had been -- had some interest expressed by Council. But we are not directionless. We have a good plan. We have a solid plan in our five year work program or our CFP. It just -- it's -- it -- being that it's at the five year mark, it is time to retouch it soon and whether it is time this year or next year I -- I will leave to you. Hoaglun: And there is no system that says, oh, it's now a ten instead of a 9.5, so -- Perreault: I'm in favor of removing it. Cavener: It's not going to impede operational programing and you guys clearly have a lot on your plate anyways, I'm supportive of delaying it for the year and bringing it back for our conversation next year. I think it seems to make sense. I also trust our parks director. We had a great history and a lot of great results with the leadership and following your direction, but I'm not hearing a huge protest to keep it in, so unless I'm misreading things, I'm supportive of holding it for a year. Siddoway: I will be okay either way, so -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 71 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 68 of 84 Hoaglun: Yeah. And, then, as Parks liaison, I mean we have got a great engaged parks commission, we got great staff, people that just gives them a year to prepare for all the information that's needed, another year to look at it and get ready for what they know will -- is part of a master plan study. So, yeah, I don't think it's going to cause any heartburn anymore. Siddoway: I do think it ought to be revisited soon, but this year versus next year isn't huge to me. It's not a critical difference. Perreault: This year was to make more progress with our pathways and be able to contribute more funding if necessary to that, but I think in light of all the discussion it will have to be a conversation for another year. Purser: Out? Okay. Siddoway: Any other questions for me? Hoaglun: Three minutes you did it. Item 4: Executive Session for the specific purpose of deliberating on a labor contract offer or to formulate a counteroffer as permitted under Idaho Code Section 74-206A(1)(a) Simison: Is there anything else in parks that you will want to revisit after lunch or Steve? Okay. With that, Council, do I have a motion? Bernt: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Bernt. Bernt: I move that we go into Executive Session per Idaho Code 74-206(a)(1)(a). Hoaglun: Second the motion. Simison: I have a motion and a second to go into Executive Session. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, clerk will call the roll. Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault, yea. Simison: All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. (EXECUTIVE SESSION: 11.58 a.m. to 12.42 p.m.) Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 72 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 69 of 84 Simison: Do I have a motion to come out of Executive Session? Bernt: Move we come out of Executive Session. Cavener: Second. Simison: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. (Recess: 12:43 p.m. to 1:01 p.m.) Item 5: City Council: Continued Fiscal Year 2021 Budget Workshop Discussion Simison: Council, I'm going to go ahead and call us back from recess. Just for a brief -- it's 1:01 p.m. and we will -- we will move on to Item 5, City Council continued fiscal year 2021 budget workshop discussion. Purser: Thank you, Mayor. Good to go? All right. Let's go then. We just finished off before we went to lunch the Parks and Rec and if there is no further commentary or questions on that we are good to close. That leaves us -- or leaves us with PD and we have -- as you can see there in your book or up on the screen all of the budget requests for the Police Department. If there are any questions, concerns, commentary now is the time to bring those up. Borton: We had from our morning conversation the consideration of removing for the year the recruiting officer. At least we had that discussion of pros and cons and the trade- off and we don't need to rehash it necessarily, but I think it's -- following that conversation where that was -- at least for my list the one item on this that -- that could come off or at least discussed for coming off. Maybe for a later year. Strader: I agree as well with that. I think the rationale is that we are hopefully partially solving our recruiting problem by -- by fixing part of our pay problem I would rather go at it that way, so let's hold off on that for a year I think. Purser: Any other questions, comments -- well, I guess specifically the recruiting officer one. If not we can finish with this and move towards balancing, seeing where we are at and, then, making any adjustments from there. So, where are we at? So, right now we are over by 593,000. Okay. That right now is being solved by using fund balance. There is another way if you want to talk or approach you can have that discussion. Bernt: Unless we have -- and, by the way, before we start more -- if we can talk directly into the mic when -- when Ms. Perreault is here so she can hear a little bit better, so it helps her out substantially. So, unless we can cut 593,000 dollars and change, I think the only other option we have is to use the fund balance, unless someone has a different Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 73 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 70 of 84 point of view or a different idea. Be willing to listen to that if someone does have a -- has an idea. Strader: Can I ask a question? Okay. So, just so I understand, so we put everything suggested now into the model; right? So, the Police STEP adjustment, the one time employee payment, everything is in here. I will be honest I'm actually shocked, that this is the amount that it's off by in a way. It's not -- it's not as -- how does this fit in -- in previous years where fund balance was used, understanding that's not the ideal, it's not what we strive to do, what is the magnitude of this amount compared to other times that this has happened? Bernt: Good question. Lavoie: Well, I can address the -- the fund balance concerns. Just to let you know, the fund balance is a concept that we actually adopt and adapt to our budget. So, we promote the use of fund balance, because we have those fund balances -- set aside funds at the very top of your summary you will see actually an automatic investment into those fund balances, so that we can tap into those resources in the future. So, don't look at fund balance as a negative and it is a financial business model that we have adapted or we have adopted here at the city since before me. So, again, something that we have always used to do the whole save before you spend. So, don't look at fund balance as a negative. We look at fund balance as a positive to add the ability to move forward those one time capital projects. You know, Robert made the comment don't use one time to pay for ongoing. He and I are on the same page. Don't work that into your practice. Use that fund balance to pay for those one time capital items. To answer the question is this number high or low, every year is different. You know, Steve may have a Discovery Park down the -- down the line. Fire Station Six. A police station that. A ladder truck here. Every year is a little different for how we fund the annual budget. Is this year high or low? In my opinion this year is a little bit low, because in years past we have had bigger projects on the docket. So, don't really try to gauge over, you know, ten percent higher or lower. We are within our financial boundaries of how we practice. I think you guys are in good shape whether or not you want to use fund balance to pay for the 593 or find some cuts or find some three percent of the property tax. This is the balancing part and where we are at right now. Borton: It's close to -- we have had seven figure uses of fund balance before. So, it's never ten thousand one way or the other, it's 500 to a million at times, depending on that. So, it's -- all the numbers are big numbers, but it's within the wheelhouse of custom. Strader: And do we feel like we have a comfort level that if we are -- if we are taking -- are we -- are we finding offsetting ways of using one time adjustments and so forth? If we put everything into this, you know, we --we have this concept of we are trying to match our ongoing cost with the budget that we are approving, there was some discussion I think of different solutions that Todd had about using replacements and so forth. Have we put all that into this and do we feel like this is a sustainable budget from Finance's perspective? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 74 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 71 of 84 Lavoie: The budget that you have proposed right now is sustainable from an ongoing operation standpoint. You --you have not added a number greater in the ongoing revenue -- or ongoing expenses that our ongoing revenue can cover. That's where you stand at this point in time. For '21 you are good. Now, whether that impacts our '22 requests or '23 requests or '24 requests, that's a different matter, because as Robert brought up, we have a compounding issue with revenue sources. So, he and I are in agreement -- you know, agree that if we are going to add ongoing revenues -- or ongoing expenses, make sure you do ongoing revenues to some extent, because we are planning five years out in our CFP. So, yes, '21 looks great. You are in great position. But I can't say that it's going to promise you a fundable five year UP at this moment in time. Simison: Todd, what was the new construction this year? Lavoie: I will look it up for you. It was like two point something. I will get the -- Simison: Two point three. And look for ongoing personnel, not the STEP plan, the new personnel added that would impact that revenue. Lavoie: So, that would be bottom left-hand corner, which is about 700 -- is it 700? No. No. No. No. It would be your total budget request. Yes. Personnel. So, column C, column B and -- what is it? Field: Six eighty-one. Lavoie: Yeah. Simison: So, if you subtract those two out. So, basically, you are using 1.7 -- 1.6 of new growth, which would be to provide new services or meet new expectations to fund ongoing operational costs. That's my best explanation for you. You can take that, you can leave it, but, you know, when you use the -- when you use the money today it's designed for new growth to cover current expenses that won't be in future years, which, again, goes to our save before you spend mentality, because you -- we can't open, for example, a new fire station without you saving up those dollars in the future. So, it looks good on paper for one year. You are fine for one year. You are not good year four or if the goal is to continue to bring on additional services. Hoaglun: I would like to know just from historical perspective how often -- you know, if it's ongoing, you know, find ongoing revenues to pay for it, but how often do you dip into the fund balance to pay for ongoing like we are now historically. Is it happening every couple of years, yeah, you got to do something for ongoing or is that -- how rare is it? Lavoie: The answer is since I have been here and with Stacey before me we never touched one time to pay for ongoing. Again, this budget you have here is paying -- you have enough ongoing to cover your ongoing expenses. We are using fund balance to pay for the one time. So, if you remove some of those one times and removed the use of fund balance, you would have a balanced budget, because we have not put together Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 75 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 72 of 84 a budget that has more ongoing expenses than ongoing revenues. That's the balancing act that we do for a five year UP and that's what we provide you. We would not present to you a ongoing expense greater than an ongoing revenue source. Perreault: I apologize for being late. Would you mind going back to the screen prior -- over to the right-hand side. The -- in -- in green is that including the changes? Did you calculate that over the break? Is that including the changes that we have discussed today or is that -- Purser: That includes everything that we have discussed so far. Bernt: Ms. Perreault? Jessica? Perreault: Is that 593 over budget based on our conversations that we have had so far today? Bernt: Yes. Purser: Yes. Perreault: Okay. Purser: You can see we have -- we have added things at the very top from, you know, the Police STEP plan, the one time merit. We have also -- we removed things. Moved the transportation and participatory budget and some of these other things. So, there has been, you know, some give and take and the end result we have right now is, you know, 593, which, you know, to Todd's point is within what we have seen historically. Perreault: Did you remove any of the other items we discussed, the -- the Fire Department vehicle or the design item -- well, design item is impact. Or any of those other items? I'm not suggesting that you should, I'm just asking if you had done that in the calculation. Lavoie: Design we left in. Perreault: Okay. Lavoie: Station number eight or number two, whatever, we left that in. We did remove the battalion chief engine number -- Perreault: Okay. Lavoie: -- or rig number 27. We did remove that from the budget. Purser: That was about 80,000, if I remember. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 76 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 73 of 84 Perreault: And what about the Parks and Rec master plan update? Purser: We removed that. Yeah. Lavoie: Only 5,000 removed. Yep. And Robert mentioned that he would remove the 20,000 for the budget for participatory -- or community budget. One million for transportation. Twenty thousand dollars for Commuteride. So, those have all been reduced and we have added those other items in with your discussion. Perreault: Did I hear you say that you estimate the four percent for the STEP plan? What was added in here -- Bernt: Five percent. Purser: Five percent. Perreault: Five. Okay. Bernt: In previous years this is the point where we would have the discussion in regard to whether or not we take an increase in -- in past years we would take that in two seconds. I don't know -- I don't know what that looks like this year. I know that -- that absolutely would affect a credit that would come from the governor's program. Unfortunately, we don't know what that number is. It makes this conversation really difficult. I mean that could be ten bucks, that could be 500 bucks per house, and so I think that -- I know that the -- the Mayor in his budget, you know, proposes zero percent, but I think it would be prudent to have that discussion now. I don't want to lean anyone a certain direction, you know, whether it's for or against, but I think that it would be wise just to talk about it and so I don't want to necessarily get too far off in the weeds in the discussion, but I think having the discussion is -- you need to have it. Borton: So, I will -- I will kick it off. The -- the gap of 593,000 gets filled one or two ways. You take one and a half percent of the allowable roughly, which generates new revenue of about 600,000 dollars or you utilize fund balance and you utilize -- it is kind of moving money around, but you utilize 593,000 of fund balance, as we do time--you know, various years. It gets allocated towards replacements -- one time replacements, which zeroes this out and you have got a balanced budget. Normally I would think that the utilization of the allowable is what it's designed for. It is our one lever that we can pull to generate revenue when necessary. I think this year is a unique exception and the Mayor's tried to capture some opportunity for our citizens to benefit from some rebate program. We don't have the details on what that might be. We might know a heck of a lot more by mid August I hope. Maybe not. So, in light of that opportunity I'm -- I'm more inclined to utilize from our General Fund on designated fund balance of a little over 19 million -- to pull from that the 593, balancing this budget and completing it, leaving the -- the utilization of the allowable at zero. See how this program develops. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 77 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 74 of 84 Strader: I am actually in agreement with that strategy as well. I think it increases the likelihood in future years that we will have to take more, but I think if we pass up this opportunity to give what could be a significant credit to property taxpayers, it would be a mistake this year, because we know that property values are going up so much that even if our levy rate goes down from extensive discussions with Finance, we will, obviously, see several -- a big portion of our property taxpayers tax bills will still go up because their properties are appreciating so much. I don't think we can afford to not give them the benefit of that program this year. That's -- that -- that's where I'm leaning. I also feel like it's structural in nature, because I think a big part of what we are trying to do is an adjustment in this Police STEP plan to really correct some things in the past. I think in the future having them be on the same cadence as the rest of the city will be a big benefit to everybody. I don't take it lightly using -- using fund balance at all for this. I think it's a big deal. But I do think that the extraordinary circumstances warrant it for this year. Cavener: Todd, from a -- from a mechanic standpoint, if we gain greater optics on the state property tax program, can we set our budget number now, but if we learn more about that program and we decide it's better for us to take one percent or one and a half percent and, then, not utilize fund balance, is that an option that's available to us or do we have to make that determination about pulling that lever today? Simison: Today. Cavener: Today? Simison: You have to set your high budget number today. It's got to get published and we got to notify the state if we are going to participate in the program before we get to the budget hearing. I think it's in two weeks. So, you already -- Lavoie: July 17th. Simison: July 17th. You got to make all the decisions today. Either way. Cavener: Okay. Then to that point I'm in agreement with my two colleagues that have spoken. I think that this is the appropriate pathway for us to follow given the information that we have today. Hoaglun: Coming into this budget session, even before we knew anything what the state was going to do, it -- to me it was incumbent that we look at making it possible to have a zero percent take on -- on property taxes, instead of the three percent that's allowable, just because of the fact of the situation that's going on. Good news is property values are going up as Council Woman Strader points out, but the bad news is that means taxes increase, but if we can lower our levy, the fund balance -- you know, it really gives me heartburn a little bit on fund balance just because I think we are going to need those savings down the road, but it -- it is -- it is within reason. It works and I can live with it, but I think to not take the three percent I think is -- is a good message to folks out there that we understand that -- the situation you are in. We are doing what we can, because Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 78 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 75 of 84 our options are very limited in what we can do to reduce taxes, but we will do what we can and I think that's -- that's what we need to do. So, I'm in favor of taking that from the fund balance to have a balanced budget and move forward with it. Perreault: So, Todd, just to get some perspective. So, to state the obvious, this is a proposed budget, but our fund balance is actual dollars. Do we run an average -- typically run an average of that high of a balance in relationship to our overall budget? I mean that -- that's a pretty significant amount that's -- that's there. All -- that fund balance has all been -- those are actual dollars, but those have all been allocated; correct? Or -- I mean help me understand the relationship between -- that's not just -- that's not just discretionary funds sitting there for any use. So, help me have some perspective there. Lavoie: Fair question. So, the fund balance numbers that we have we have built into our five and ten year CFP. So, to say that they are not allocated would not be a hundred percent correct, because you can't really allocate anything until you guys appropriate it, but within Robert's discussions and the directors' discussions and the CFP we have all of our undesignated fund balances assigned or allocated to a project over the next five to ten years. So, that money there is already kind of allocated, hence what Robert was speaking of, any decisions you are making here will impact possible future projects that we won't be able to fund, because that's being reduced, because we have already penciled in that use, if that kind of makes sense. Again, we adjust it every year. We re- analyze it. But that money right there is undesignated available fund balance outside the CFP planning process. Perreault: So, the assumption is we will have to make an adjustment for that in future years and/or add revenue sources. Lavoie: There is a number of things that could impact it. You could have a ridiculous permit year and revenues skyrocket or complete opposite, revenues fall off the table and, then, we have to reevaluate -- again, so many variables. That's why we -- we evaluate it every single year, so we can make sure that we have five years fundable. Again, Robert's plan right now might not be fundable because X, Y and Z happens or, you know, whatever the plan is that we have discussed. It's not your plan. I apologize. Simison: That's all right. And I -- you know, like I say, it could an impact to the fund balance, but when you don't -- we are not seeing is the compounding projected impacts to the fund balance with what this budget is proposing. So, I mean that number is a misnomer about the cost of this budget long term, but it is the actual cost for FY-21 . Bernt: So -- Strader: Oops. Sorry, Treg. Bernt: Go ahead, Liz. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 79 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 76 of 84 Strader: I was going to offer up a thought. I don't love dipping into the fund balance for this and I know that our revenue projections are very conservative, at least from what I have seen. So, what I was going to suggest -- at least one thing I -- I think might make sense to put on the table would be to table -- and it's an issue dear to my heart, but to maybe put the LED replacements out six months and see if our revenue projections end up -- if our actual revenues end up exceeding our projections and, then, use that excess to fund the budget amendment. I would like to use the same magnitude, I still think it's incredibly important, I just -- I'm struggling with dipping into the fund balance if it's -- if it's really this close. So, I wanted to throw that out there. Simison: I will just say again from a -- from a one time capital expense use of the fund balance, do it all day long. It doesn't really impact the bottom line. So, I personally -- I would say appreciate it, Council, but it's your ongoing expenses which you are challenged in this budget, not your one time capital. Strader: Maybe one follow up before Council jumps in. So, I think one thing that -- that -- that's important for me to understand and I had that conversation with Brad as well was if we dip into fund balance -- if we project, you know, fairly consistent revenues and expenses in line with where we are now, do we think that we can pay for our ongoing operations next year within the three percent without taking forgone. That's something that I wanted to -- I think it's good for us to hear that that's the case, because that's what I came away from that conversation with, but there is a lot of projections and assumptions that go into -- into that, so that's a tough -- tough prediction to make, but it -- it looked to me like from where we sit today we have it within our ability within our three percent next year to -- let's just say -- that it should work pretty well from the conversation we had. Pursuer: I would agree with that. I would want to make sure Todd's on board with that as well. But, yeah, I think the answer is, yes, we would have that. Bernt: Theoretically I believe, you know, that -- that -- the answer to that question is yes. However -- and I understand the message that we are -- we are sending to our citizens and I -- you know, I don't think there is a single member that sits on this Council that ever takes this conversation lightly ever and these are important discussions and we are living in -- we are seeing unprecedented times and I don't know what the future holds. So, it's sort of tough to answer that question a hundred percent. I get why we were taking the zero percent and I agree with it. However, there is -- there is pause for concern about what the compound effect will -- will be like in 2000 -- you know, four to five years and we are making a tougher decision for us next year and so if that's what -- the decision we want to make as a body, that's great, but know that next year's conversation is going to be tougher than this one and looking at projections and revenue streams, we might not have a choice, but just know -- know that -- I just want each and every one of us to know that taking zero percent this year, giving back to our citizens, which on -- which none of us disagree with, next year will put us in a position where next year -- next year's conversation might be a little bit different. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 80 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 77 of 84 Perreault: I apologize for this simple question, but would you take me through how it works to collect foregone in relationship to -- so, if we were to -- if the legislature doesn't freeze us and prevent us from taking the three percent next year, if we were to collect both that and the forgone, how does that look? Is it -- is there a percentage -- how much forgone can we collect as far as a percentage goes and can we do the three percent and, then, the forgone of three percent and is that forgone the actual amount that we would have collected in a particular given fiscal year or -- Lavoie: Next year let's say hypothetical, you can take three percent and right now we have two million dollars in our forgone. You could add two million dollars into your revenue source or you can just grab it all at one time. We just have to notify it and notice it on to the citizens. There is no extra -- extra vote, unless legislation changes it, but you are in theory getting the vote via the public hearing. We just have to notice it to the citizens, so on September -- July 20 something we tell the citizens we are going to do this, this, and, then, we have to put a special clause in there we are also doing this. Please come back on August 21 st and put in your vote, you guys, and listen to your citizens, take it or not. So, no real extra work at this time. Whether or not they change it that's a different story. But, no, you can grab one hundred percent of it. Perreault: If we -- if we are discussing the --the political, social and financial ramifications to our citizens, I have -- I have hesitation about collecting foregone. I have hesitation about collecting both in the same year, but I have more hesitation about collecting forgone than trying to take a percentage this year, but the missing piece for me is just whether we are going to need to forego the three percent based on what's going to happen with -- with federal funds and whether the city will be able to access those. So, I know I'm in disagreement with the rest of my Council Members, but I would propose that we leave a percent and a half in the budget, which should cover the shortage -- or the -- instead of using the fund balance and, then, if we get more information by the end of August about what will happen with federal funds and we decide to take it out at that time, realizing that we may, then, have to actually use the fund balance. But it's my understanding that we could make the decision at that time. If we add the -- if we add the -- the percent and a half in at this moment and we choose to take that percentage out -- because we are sending that -- we are sending that levy to the assessor is that why? Lavoie: We have to notify the CFAC DFM over at the state that we want to participate and for us to participate we as a body have to commit to the zero. We don't tell Ada county and the State Tax Commission until August 21 st when the public hearing your actual budget is approved and adopted by you. That's when I report to Council -- or, I apologize, to the state, hey, this is what we are doing. But to participate in this is July 17th we have to commit as a body. Perreault: Okay. Borton: Question. When we act for this tentative budget is it by motion? Lavoie: Generally we don't do a motion. It's usually just agreed upon that -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 81 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 78 of 84 Borton: Okay. Lavoie: -- the budget is what it is and we will provide you a tentative budget to propose to your citizens based on all these changes. We will come back in a couple of weeks, go here it is, Council, please, present this to citizens and that's kind of how it works. But if you want to -- I mean if you want to do a motion that's up to you. But normally we don't -- we don't need a formal motion by you guys. Bernt: Council, we -- are we in agreement with the tentative budget that you see on the screens right now? Borton: For the purpose of -- of publishing this to the public, yes. Strader: Yes. Hoaglun: Yes. Perreault: Yes. Bernt: Okay. There we go. Lavoie: Again, just want to make sure we are on those -- with the understanding that 593,334 we will be -- Bernt: Taken out of the -- Lavoie: -- use the fund balance -- Bernt: Right. Lavoie: -- to balance the budget to the citizens. Bernt: Right. Correct. Hoaglun: Council President or -- that also I guess doing this we have had the discussion that we are going to be participating. I didn't know if there was any formal action needed to participate in the state program, whatever it is. Is that a future discussion or when we get details or how do we proceed on that? Lavoie: That's a fair question. I guess -- Council has the ultimate authority on whether they want to participate, where I guess we are assuming by taking a zero you have committed to participating. The executive branch will go ahead and take on the paperwork process, but if you guys want to not participate and still take the zero -- I mean I'm not sure that would be the right decision. Bernt: It sort of defeats the purpose. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 82 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 79 of 84 Lavoie: Exactly. So, it sounds like it's implied that by you taking zero you have instructed us as an executive branch to apply accordingly for the CFAC funds. Hoaglun: But I have to say it does give me heartburn. I mean federal government just put three trillion dollars into our federal debt and we are burdening our kids and future generations with a huge amount. I get it from that practical standpoint that, yes, this is the right thing to do and we have to do it to make it work, because the money's been allocated, somebody is going to spend it, so let's get our share, but, my gosh, we are -- we are headed the wrong way on this whole thing. Where we have discussions about if we are going to spend X where do we cut on Y, that discussion does not go on at that other level and it's -- it's sad. Strader: I think it's great that -- that we are having that conversation at least for the public record. I could not agree more. I think if we continue to have the Federal Reserve print money constantly we are just inflating asset bubbles and it's going to create a lot of issues down the line. So, I couldn't -- I could not agree more with you, Brad, on that, but we do have property taxpayers who are hurting very acutely in our own community that could -- that could benefit from this specific program. I think it would be irresponsible not to give them the benefit of that. It could be material. Lavoie: I do have one more action I need by the Council. This year new -- new statutes for us to manage is the actions on foregone revenue. Given that you -- we have decided as a body not to take any of the level three percent, we now have to propose to our citizens in a legal document that our intention is to do something with that zero percent or three percent allowable. In years past it was implied if we did not take any of the three percent it would automatically come to us or sit in our foregone. We now have to actually state on record that, yes, we are not taking any of the three percent and, yes, we want it to go into our forgone balance. So, I need to hear from you. The one million dollars that we are, quote, unquote, not taking by not utilizing the three percent, is it your intention for us to ask the state to add it to our forgone balance going forward or completely lose sight of it and if you do that you can never tap back into that ever again. My recommendation to you is to acknowledge the zero percent, acknowledge to the citizens and the state that we wish to have the forgone added to our forgone balance. So, if you want to tap into it it's available to you. There is no financial impact to anybody, because if you never touch it it's nowhere there. But if you never acknowledge it you will never be able to get it. Borton: Acknowledge it. Bernt: Yeah. I think -- foregone. It's like -- it's a -- it's such a complicated discussion. Perreault: It's an oxymoron. Foregone. Bernt: I know. It's the worst. It's like -- but I think that we would add it, you know, if -- if we are saying we are just -- we are going to add it, but we are not giving an implication that we are going to use it -- is that what we are saying? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 83 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 80 of 84 Lavoie: Yes. Bernt: I would be in favor of that. Borton: It seems responsible to include it. It's just anew more formal designation of what already existed and we are just preserving that opportunity for a future Council to have that flexibility should the need arise. It would be irresponsible to not make that procedural declaration that it's into our foregone pot. Lavoie: Agreed. Perreault: At any point does that-- how long does that last? At any point are we prohibited from collecting it? Is there a time or term limitation? Bernt: Never. Lavoie: Current state statute has zero limitations on timeline usage. Nary: Mr. President? I can help give the Council a little bit of context. So, in the past before this legislative session, the action that was needed is if the city council opted not to take any of the tax, they could pass a resolution saying they would never take the tax. But now they have sort of reversed it and said now you have got to say you might take it at some point in the future. Therefore, you want the state to make sure to continue to collect it. Or at least account for it. I'm sorry. At least account for it for a future. So, that's really the only difference. Cavener: Bill, can we via that resolution create sideboards around that, meaning we would only use it in the case of a -- an emergency declaration or something along those lines? Nary: So, Mr. President, Members of Council, Council Member Cavener, I don't -- I don't believe you are prohibited from doing that. All I have read so far is you have to pass a resolution, like Todd had stated, that you just want them to account for it. Again, a resolution really has no force of law, other than the direction that you are giving to the state or the county on retaining it or recording it. It's -- it's up to you. If you want to limit yourself you certainly can. I wouldn't recommend it, because you never know what the cause may be. But that's certainly up to you. Cavener: Council --and maybe this is a conversation for a later point in time. Councilman Bernt I think hit the nail on the head. Foregone is kind of a -- it's a challenging term and to me if we are choosing not to take a property tax increase, that is a -- a fairly strong commitment to the taxpayers and something that I really really support. So, I'm not excited about adding a resolution that says we could potentially take foregone in the future, unless there is some really strict sideboards around that, because I think that's an important commitment to the taxpayers. So, where the law is kind of different this year, you know, I think we have got some options and I think that's something that we should Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 84 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 81 of 84 be exploring at a minimum, as opposed to just carte blanche. To Bill's point there aren't a lot of teeth around that, but I think that just solidifies our commitment to the taxpayers to not use it unless there is an extreme emergency. Bernt: Mr. Cavener, got a question for you. So, I believe we have a foregone -- existing forgone balance of two million plus and so are you requesting that we add sideboards to all of it or just the one million that we are putting into it? Cavener: That's a really good question. To me as I'm -- as I'm thinking out loud, as I understand the resolution that we would have to pass would only pertain to this year's budget. So, to me that's -- because of the way the law is written it would only pertain to this year's budget, but I would be open to learning more from Legal staff or Finance staff about -- Simison: Councilman Cavener, that's not accurate. You are -- you are -- the foregone you can't touch it this year regardless. It's gone. It's only stuff that can be brought up by future councils in future years to request as part of the budget process. So, I -- and, Bill, I guess that would be my question to you. Can this Council bind future councils from accessing revenue? That's essentially what Councilman Cavener is asking. I think the answer to that is no legally. Nary: Right. And, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council -- and if I didn't state it clearly, a resolution is merely a declaration of intent today. There is no -- it's a -- it's a message to a future council that that was the intent this Council had. It doesn't bind them from doing anything. It simply is a directive of what this Council believes in 2020. Borton: So, if that's the process would it be okay to proceed with the resolution -- if we see it in advance we might be able to talk about some -- even if it's nonbinding declarations of intent of why we are including it, but we are doing so hopefully for these narrow purposes. But we don't -- we wouldn't draft it today in this discussion, but we see in advance what it looks like, we can come up with something. Strader: I think if it was something very broad, like extraordinary circumstances, I would understand that. I don't love the idea of building a sideboard for the unknown future. Like if it's too specific I -- which the whole point is to keep optionality for extraordinary circumstances, but I do think it's accurate -- I don't think there is a single person on Council here that would take foregone for anything short of some extraordinary circumstances. Hoaglun: Yeah. Because that -- Perreault: I agree with Council Woman Strader. My hope is that us, if we are making consideration of this in the next four -- three years or future councils will -- Hoaglun: Go ahead. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 85 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 82 of 84 Perreault: We will take -- we will take the decision to collect the foregone very seriously and go through the same very deliberative process. I trust that future councils will be very deliberate in their decision to take foregone and -- and for that reason I don't -- I'm not supportive of putting sideboards on it as well. I feel like that takes away their ability to -- to be very specific and deliberative on what they may use those funds for and I don't want to take that option away from them. Although, again, I realize it's a resolution and they could create another resolution removing that limitation, but I trust that ourselves or future council will be very deliberative if they have to collect foregone. Obviously, councils -- council -- previous councils have not taken foregone very frequently, so it's something I think each council has taken very very seriously. Hoaglun: And I'm in the same mindset. I just don't see the need to put sideboards on now. As elected officials we are accountable to the voters and if we next year decide we have to take foregone, we have to explain why. We are accountable to them and say we are doing it for this reason. So, in advance of that, doing it, to me seems -- there is no need for that. It's at that time we did it for a specific reason. I don't think any of us are going to take it, oh, just because we can take it, it's -- it's -- it's going to be for a specific purpose if we take it at all. So, I think that's the accountability. They are going to hold us accountable to our actions at that time whether or not we pass a resolution saying, oh, we will only do it for this, but for that time we better give good reasons or they can say, okay, that's a terrible reason, I don't want you anymore, so -- and that's within their purview. Cavener: Sure. And perhaps -- I mean with this being the -- the new law, perhaps I'm a little ahead of my skis. It might make sense to -- to see what their resolution looks like before we start talking about those hypotheticals. Just since it came up and because this is a new approach -- I know in the past other jurisdictions have -- part of their motion to approve the budget have, you know, quickly said that we won't take foregone in the future and I think that is what has kind of led this particular law to be passed, but I think once we see the resolution we can have a deeper conversation if needed. Perreault: Now, to that end I am in favor of maybe making a limitation of using forgone only for one time expenses, instead of ongoing expenses -- Bernt- No. Perreault: -- something to that regard. Lavoie: Well -- so, once you add forgone to your revenue stream it becomes an ongoing revenue stream. Bernt: Right. Lavoie: So, really it's usable for whatever fund -- Bernt: Right. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 86 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 83 of 84 Lavoie: -- at that point. So, I wouldn't -- I wouldn't restrict yourself. Bernt: Todd I think gave your answer. Or Brad. Sorry. Hoaglun: I was just going to ask a question, Todd. You know, we don't know what the state is going to propose with that. Could it be that they offer funds -- if you don't take the three percent we will give you these funds and no forgone. Lavoie: Well, as of the latest language that's been proposed that we have seen there is no talk about removing the foregone factor of it. Again, that's the latest language we have seen. We have seen three or four iterations of this. But right now not a factor. The legislature has a different discussion on property tax and foregone. Bernt: I think you have your answer. Lavoie: We will propose the document for you guys later in July. Again, that document is you guys establishing the invitation to the citizens on your budget and, then, they will have access to it for about three to four weeks and, then, we will reconvene in August where the citizens will approach you with any concerns and, then, at that point you will approve the budget and, then, the following week we will ask Bill and the Legal team to develop the official ordinance based on the decision that you make on that public hearing. That's kind of a timeline standpoint from here on out. You guys can discuss things. We can't add, as Robert stated, but you guys can reduce on the August hearing. The ball is in the Finance's court now and we will do all the number crunching and briefs submitted to you for your consideration for the tentative adoption for the '21 budget sometime in July. So, I think it's like middle of July we will be back in front of you. Bernt: Before we shut it off, I just wanted to say that, you know, this budget process is not like any budget process that I have been a part of. I have only been involved with two. Mr. Borton has been involved in probably 20. How many? A lot. More than me. And so there will be -- we discussed a lot of important issues and I think we handled it in a respectful way and so I just wanted to say thank you for the dialogue. Appreciate you and I think that's about it, Mr. Mayor, unless you wanted to say anything. Simison: Just take a motion to adjourn. Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting. Hoaglun: Second the motion. Hoaglun: Motion and second to adjourn. Any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it. We are adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:45 P.M. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 87 of 234 Meridian City Council Budget June 30,2020 Page 84 of 84 (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) 7 / 14 / 2020 _ MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 14,2020— Page 88 of 234