2020-05-12 Regular Meeting Meridian City Council May 12, 2020.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:02 p.m., Tuesday, May
12, 2020, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Treg Bernt, Jessica
Perreault, Brad Hoaglun and Liz Strader.
Also present: Chris Johnson, Adrienne Weatherly, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Joe Bongiorno
and Warren Stewart.
Item 1: Zoom Meeting Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83685789213
Item 2: Roll-call Attendance:
Liz Strader Joe Borton
_X_ Brad Hoaglun _X_Treg Bernt
Jessica Perreault Luke Cavener
_X_ Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: All right. Well, with that let's go ahead and call this meeting to order. For the
record it is Tuesday, May 12th, 2020, at 6:02 p.m. We will begin this meeting with roll call
attendance.
Item 3: Pledge of Allegiance
Simison- Item 3 is the Pledge of Allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 4: Community Invocation with Vinnie Hanke of Valley Life Christian
Church
Simison: Item No. 4 is our community invocation and we have Vinnie Hanke. Did I
pronounce that right? Dr. Hanke with Valley Life Christian Church. If you will all join us
in the invocation or take this as a moment of silence or reflection for yourself. Pastor
Hanke.
Hanke- Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you City Council for giving me an opportunity
just to pray for you all. God, we thank you for this evening and I just begin by praying and
lifting up part of the City of Meridian, the county of Ada, God, and the state of Idaho. We
pray that you might comfort the afflicted at this time, you might provide courage to the
fearful and hope to the discouraged, power for the Meridian City Council. God, I pray that
tonight you would give prudence and their actions wisdom and their thinking and
ultimately zeal in your leadership. We thank you for the grace and mercy that you
revealed through the gospel of Jesus Christ and I pray that it would empower this
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community to be one that glorifies you and blesses its citizens. We ask these things
through Christ, the Savior. Amen. Thank you all. Have a great meeting. God bless you.
Item 5: Adoption of Agenda
Simison: Okay. Item 5 is adoption of the agenda.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve the agenda as published.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Second the motion.
Simison: I have a motion and a section -- a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as
published. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by
saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Item 6: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
Simison: Move on to Item 6, future meeting topics. Adrienne or Chris, did we have
anyone sign up?
Johnson- Mr. Mayor, there is nobody signed up for that.
Item 7: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Kenneth Allen Garage Vacation (H-2020-0037)
by Kenneth Allen, Located at 2420 N. Victor Way
1. Request: Vacate 5 feet of an existing 1 0-foot wide public utility,
drainage, and irrigation (PUDI) easement located along the
south property line of Lot 7, Block 3 of the Tuthill Estates
Subdivision No. 1.
Simison- Okay. And with that we will move on to Item 7-A, a public hearing for Kenneth
Allen Garage Vacation, H-2020-0037, and I will turn this over to -- I don't know which staff
-- for comments.
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Dodson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's mine. Joe Dodson.
Simison: Okay. Thanks, Joe.
Dodson: Good evening, Mayor and Council. Good to be here again. Get the short --
short PowerPoint up for a second. Chris, is that going up or are we a no go on that?
Johnson: I'm trying to get that right now. One moment.
Dodson: No worries. Perfect. All right. As stated, we are here tonight for Item No. 7-A,
Kenneth Allen Garage Vacation. This site consists of .2 acres of land, zoned R-4, located
at 2420 North Victor Way. Next slide, Chris. Before you is a request-- a request to vacate
five feet of an existing ten foot wide public utility drainage and irrigation easement or PUDI
easement if you will, located along the south property line of Lot 7, Block 3, of the Tuthill
Estates Subdivision No. 1 . The applicant, who is the owner, is requesting to vacate half
of the PUDI easement on their property in order to build a new stand-alone garage,
located five feet from the property line. Five feet is the minimum interior side setback for
the R-4 zoning district. All easement holders have submitted written consent agreeing to
vacate a portion of this existing easement. I have noticed that none of them have many
of their utilities or equipment within the requested five feet of area to be vacated. Staff
recommends approval of the vacation as proposed by the applicant and I will stand for
questions.
Simison: Thank you, Joe. Council, any questions? Thank you very much. This is a
public hearing. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up? I see we have Kenneth Allen in
the room, so I assume that he is here to testify on this item.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, he is unmuted and able to speak if he would like.
Simison: Okay. Mr. Allen, would you wish to testify? If so state your name and address
for the record.
K.Allen- Kenneth Allen. 2420 North Victor Way, Meridian, Idaho.
Simison- Do you have any -- any testimony you would like to provide on this topic or are
you good with the staff information?
K.Allen: Well, the whole purpose of it is to build a garage, so I can do a little RV storage
and a little office spot beside it, you know. Just building a garage, you know.
Simison- Okay.
K.Allen- That's about it.
Simison- Perfect. Council, do you have any questions for Mr. Allen? Thank you very
much. Is there anybody else who signed up to testify, Chris?
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, this is Adrienne. There is no one signed in to testify on this project.
Simison: Okay. Well, we do have people in the -- in the attendee. Just for the record, if
you would like to testify just raise your hand and we will bring you in to testify on this item.
That will be the case when we move to the next item as well. And if you -- I don't see
anybody who is just on the phone. It looks like everyone is in using the app, so we don't
have to worry about star nine to speak, but I don't see anybody wishing to testify. So,
with that, Council, do I have a motion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: I move we close the public hearing on Item 7-A, H-2020-0037.
Cavener: Second.
Simison: Okay. I have a motion and a second by Councilman Cavener to close the public
hearing. Is there any discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying
aye. Opposed nay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: After considering all of the staff comment on this application, I move that we
approve file number H-2020-0037.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I will second that.
Simison- I have a motion and a second to approve item H-2020-0037. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, the clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison- All ayes. Motion carries. Thank you very much.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
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B. Public Hearing for Delano Subdivision (H-2019-0027) by Boll
Cook Investments, LLC, Located at 14120 W. Jasmine Ln. and
2800 E. Jasmine Ln.
1 Request: Annexation & zoning of 15.22 acres of land with R-
8 (2.76 acres), R-15 (8.82 acres) and R-40 (3.64 acres)
zoning districts; and,
2. Request: A Preliminary plat consisting of 66 single-family
residential building lots, 1 building lot for a future multi-family
development, 8 common area lots and 2 other (common
driveway) lots.
Simison: Council, next up we will consider Item 7-B, public hearing for Delano
Subdivision, H-2019-2027. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before you
is a request for annexation and zoning and a preliminary plat. This site consists of 15.21
acres of land. It's zoned RUT in Ada county and is located at 2800 and 14120 West
Jasmine Lane. This property is designated medium density residential on the western
portion, which calls for three to eight dwelling units per acre on the west side of the
extension of Centrepoint and mixed use regional on the east side of Centrepoint. This
project was originally heard by the Commission May 2nd and July 18th, 2019. At the
hearing on July 18th the Commission voted to recommend denial of the project to City
Council. The City Council heard the project on November 12th and voted to remand the
project back to the Commission to address the density issue of the proposed development
and for Commission's review of a revised plat with changes to lots along the northern
boundary of the subdivision that front on East Della Street, consisting of single story
detached homes and the loss of one buildable lot. The revised plans before you tonight
are the result of discussions at the previous City Council hearing and meetings with the
neighbors. Their revisions include a reduction in the number of buildable lots from 85 to
66. A change to the proposed zoning. The portion of the site along the north and west
boundaries previously proposed to be zoned R-15 is now R-8. And a change to the
conceptual building elevations. Since the hearing at City Council in November the city
adopted a new Comprehensive Plan, which included an amendment to the future land
use map that assigned a mixed use regional designation to the majority of the property
that lies east of the proposed Centrepoint Way. Therefore, the previous application for
an amendment to the future land use map is no longer needed and has been withdrawn.
This area was formerly in the city of Boise's planning area, but last October Boise city
council approved a resolution to amend the land use map of Blueprint Boise to transfer
this area from Boise's area of city impact to the City of Meridian's area of city impact
boundaries, since Meridian is able to provide water and sewer services to the property.
The applicant is requesting annexation and zoning of 3.31 acres of land with R-8 zoning
on the north and west portion of the site, R-15 zoning for the 8.12 acres directly to the
south and east of the R-8 portion and R-40 zoning for the five acres on the east side of
Centrepoint Way. The proposed zoning is consistent with the proposed development plan
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and the future land use map designations for this site. The preliminary plat is proposed
consisting of 66 single family residential building lots for the development of single family
residential detached homes at a gross density of 5.7 units per acre. One building lot for
a future 96 unit multi-family residential development at a gross density of 27 units per
acre. Eight common lots and two other lots for common driveways on 15.22 acres of
land. The plat is proposed to develop in three phases as shown. A concept plan is
proposed for the multi-family portion of the site, which will require subsequent approval
of a conditional use permit with a detailed plan. One access is proposed on either side
of Centrepoint Way, a collector street, and an emergency only pedestrian access is
proposed from the extension of North Dashwood Place at the north boundary of the site.
A stub street is proposed to the parcel to the west for access and future extension. Public
streets are proposed within the single family residential portion of the development with
27 foot wide street sections. Private drive aisles will be provided within the multi-family
portion of the development. The Commission, consistent with ACHD's action,
recommends the connection of Dashwood Avenue to the existing stub street to the north,
Dashwood Place, occur as a temporary emergency access and pedestrian connection
until Centrepoint Way is extended to Wainwright Drive to the north where the signal is or
within ten years, whichever occurs first. When Centrepoint Way is extended to
Wainwright, Dashwood Place will be reconstructed as a public street for vehicular
connectivity to Wainwright Drive. A driveway and cross-access ingress-egress easement
is required to be provided to the parcel to the east of the multi-family residential portion
of the site, since it only has access via Eagle Road, State Highway 55. The applicant
provided a concept drawing showing how development could possibly occur on the Wong
parcel to the north with the extension of Centrepoint to Wainwright, consistent with the
master street map in the location proposed on this site. Twenty-seven foot wide street
sections are proposed, which only allow parking on one side of the street. A parking plan
was submitted as shown that demonstrates the amount of available on-street parking,
which is 58 spaces, as well as the location of such spots. A 20 foot wide landscape street
buffer is required along Centrepoint Way, a collector street. A minimum ten percent
qualified open space is required to be provided for the overall development, along with
one site amenity. The applicant is proposing 10.8 percent on the single family residential
portion of the site, consisting of a .69 acre park with amenities, parkways, linear open
space and a collector street buffer. Because the multi-family residential portion of the site
is separated from the single family portion by a collector street and the development plan
is conceptual at this time, staff recommends as a development agreement provision that
the ten percent open space is provided on that portion of the site at the time of
development, in addition to the open space required in the specific use standards for
multi-family developments. A shade structure, a children's play structure, climbing dome,
climbing boulders, seating benches and public art are proposed as qualified site
amenities, which exceed UDC standards. The Nourse Lateral runs along the northern
boundary of the site and is piped. An easement should be depicted on the plat for the
waterway if one exists. If there is an easement and the width is ten feet or greater, it
should be located within a common lot that is a minimum 20 feet wide and outside of a
fenced area, unless modified by City Council. The elevations shown are the original
elevations. New concept building elevations were submitted for the single family
residential detached homes as shown. All single family homes along the west and north
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perimeter boundaries of the development will be restricted to a single story in height as
proposed by the applicant. The concept elevations for the apartments are as shown and
didn't change. The Commission recommended approval of these applications and I will
just go through a summary of the Commission hearing. Hethe Clark, the applicant's
representative, testified in favor. There were several folks that commented on the
application as follows: Malissa Bernard. Laura Trairatnobhas, Michael Bernard, Sandi
King, Kenneth Clifford and Ali Crane. Written testimony has been received from many
letters of the public and they are all contained in the public record. Hethe Clark, the
applicant's representative, submitted a response to the staff report. Key issues of
discussion were as follows: The homeowners association to the north, Alpine Pointe,
requests the Dashwood stub street at the north boundary be vacated and sole vehicular
access be provided to the site from the south via Centrepoint Way to keep traffic from
cutting through their neighborhood. This could also be accomplished with a gate for
emergency access only. Feeling that the subdivision to the north is overconnected and
more connections aren't necessary to Wainwright Drive from the south, especially with
Centrepoint planned to extend to Wainwright in the future. They request larger lots and
single story homes along the north boundary for a better transition. Belief that funds
should be provided by all development for improvement of the Eagle Road and
Wainwright intersection. Concern pertaining to the impact the proposed development will
have on the capacity of various schools. Frustration from the neighbors that they weren't
aware that Dashwood was planned to be extended in the future, as there were no signs
erected at the end of the stub street and concern pertaining to the removal of all of the
existing evergreen trees, approximately 40, along the southern boundary of the site and
request for mitigation to be required. The owner planned to cut these trees down for
firewood. Key issues of discussion by the Commission are as follows: The Commission
asked the applicant to clarify the status of the Nourse Lateral easement along the northern
boundary of the site. The applicant stated that the Alpine Pointe Subdivision plat depicts
a 15 foot wide easement for the piped lateral that exists on the adjacent property to the
north within the easement. The applicant also proposes to depict an additional easement
on the subject plat in case it's needed for maintenance of the lateral. The transportation
plan for this area and existing in plan connections to Wainwright Drive. Whether or not
Dashwood should be extended to Centrepoint with the first phase of development as
recommended by staff or extended as a temporary emergency access and pedestrian
connection until Centrepoint is extended to Wainwright or within ten years, whichever
occurs first. When Centrepoint is extended to Wainwright Dashwood would be
reconstructed as a public street for vehicular connectivity to Wainwright as required by
ACHD. The applicant's request for homes along the west boundary to not be restricted
to single story in height and for the buffer and sidewalk along the east side of Centrepoint
to not be constructed until development of the multi-family portion of the site, which is in
phase three. Support for retaining the existing trees or acquiring mitigation for them if
removed. In support of fewer lots and lower density proposed. And, finally, the timing for
construction of the street buffer and sidewalk along the east side of Centrepoint with the
first phase as recommended by staff or with a third phase as proposed by the applicant.
The Commission made the following changes to the staff recommendation. They
approved access consistent with ACHD's decision. They allowed bonus rooms on single
story homes along the west boundary with no rear facing windows for the bonus rooms.
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They allowed the street buffer and sidewalk along the east side of Centrepoint to be
constructed with the third phase, rather than the first phase, as recommended by staff.
And, finally, they required the developer to retain as many trees as possible along the
southern boundary of the site. So, the only outstanding issue that staff has for Council
tonight is if Council determines that all of the existing trees on the site should -- that are
proposed to be removed should require mitigation in accord with UDC standards, even
those removed by the property owner for firewood, that condition A-3-A and section eight
should be modified accordingly. Currently there is no mitigation requirements if the
property owner removes the trees for firewood. Many letters of testimony have been
received and they are included in the public record since the Commission hearing. Staff
will stand for any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions for staff?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I have a question for Sonya. If you could help me understand what the interplay
is with ACHD and if -- if -- what -- what would be a downside or are we prohibited from
making Dashwood a permanent emergency access -- pedestrian access only?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, Council, that is under your purview. The City
Council can choose to extend it, not extend it, or temporarily extend it or emergency
access.
Strader: Thank you.
Simison: Council, any other questions for staff at this time? Okay. With that I will turn it
over to the applicant and for the record I am the timer today, so it will be on my phone.
We don't have a way to show up on the screen. Mr. Clark, I will try to give you a one
minute wrap up if we get to that point in time. Signal. Maybe a -- something like that.
Did you see that? So, anyways, the time is yours for 15 minutes.
Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Hethe Clark. 251 East Front Street in Boise. And just
maybe a thumbs up if everybody can hear me. Great. So, we are here at the continuation
of a pretty long process at this point. Appreciated staff's efforts on this and we are hoping
to have a good conversation tonight. Chris, do I have control of the slides?
Johnson: Mr. Mayor and Mr. Clark, you have control.
Clark: Okay. Thank you. It just worked. Thank you. As a reminder, this is the location
of the property. I emphasize that it's close to major transportation corridors in Eagle and
Ustick, as well as proximity to shopping. I also want to emphasize the Comprehensive
Plan elements. As Sonya mentioned, the area that we are going to be discussing tonight
is the medium density area on the west part of the project. The area to the east is mixed
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use regional. Those designations are per the new land use map and match the prior
Boise city planning on the area on the east. It also matches the Comprehensive Plan
designation for the much more dense apartment project on our south. I think it would be
good to talk a little bit about the history here. So, let me hit some of it. I want to -- I want
to kind of emphasize a few elements. This application was before you late last year.
There was plenty of debate at that hearing. Some of you probably remember. I would
say that the tension points really focused on the Dashwood connection. If you will recall
at that time the proposal was to cut off access at Centrepoint, which the idea was that
that would restrict the big Brickyard residents from coming up and through and into Alpine
Pointe through Dashwood. The proposed project at the time would rely on that connection
until Wainwright was completed. The result of that conversation was essentially -- we
were remanded to explore two issues. We were instructed to go back and look at the
density of the project, including on the northern boundary against Alpine Pointe, as well
as to reconsider the nature of the Dashwood connection. So, after the November hearing
before City Council there was -- the -- there was a change in the applicant group. Devco
and BlackRock exited and the group of investors asked me to try to help move the project
forward. I scheduled meetings with the Alpine Pointe board beginning in -- well, both
meetings were in December of 2019. During the first meeting I took in a full size copy of
the prior site plan and we discussed the board's priorities. The board's priorities were
identified. We wrote them down on the plat. This is a picture of that plat with the notes
on it. The priorities were -- in no particular order -- to reduce the density overall and on
the north boundary, while still retaining the single story limitation on the north that had
been previously offered. The number that was put out during that meeting for the size of
those lots was to shoot for 6,000 square feet. The board wanted to see the primary
access be down at Centrepoint. So, in other words, to invert the access that had been
previously proposed. Folks wanted to see cross-access provided on the multi-family area
and, of course, the board wanted to see Dashwood either vacated altogether or made
emergency only. So, I took those comments and we came up with the plan that is before
you tonight. As it turned out, a prior draft iteration was actually pretty close to -- and
seemed to me to incorporate a lot of what the board had been asking for and so we started
there to get to what we have -- what you have before you. As you can see, the density is
significantly reduced. The primary connection is down on Centrepoint. The internal lots
are reoriented and the park is still facing Alpine Pointe, but has been increased in size.
Getting a little bit more into those details. There was a reduction -- this plan reduces the
overall lot count from 85 to 66. So, a 22 percent reduction in overall lots. Primary access
is, again, at Centrepoint as requested. The lots on the north boundary were reduced and
we will talk about that some more here in a minute. But we kept the single story limitation,
which is something I would point out that not many applicants would do if they lost the
lots, they wouldn't keep the single story limit. As mentioned, the internal lots are
reoriented and the park is expanded and we were able to get permission to install bollards
in the ACHD right of way for an emergency only access at Dashwood. I reviewed this
plan with the board in -- again in late December and, then, at the board's suggestion we
held a meeting with the membership of Alpine Pointe in February of 2020. 1 felt pretty
confident coming out of those meetings that we had addressed a lot of the neighbors
concerns. A couple of other items. I do want to point out based on neighbor comments
we no longer have any attached product in the project. So, everything is single family
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detached. Accordingly, we updated the home elevations. These are some examples.
Sonya showed you the larger batch. Also despite the reduction in density, the
neighborhood amenities have not been reduced. We have five more than what is
required, including a proposal which I think is pretty cool for an art installation and a
seating area on the southwest corner of the project. That's this area down here and on
-- down on the southwest corner in that triangular area and I would also note that when it
comes to the open space calculations we did not get credit for that triangle, nor did we
get credit for the area just north of it. So, we are actually quite a ways above the -- the
ten percent limit, even though it looks like we were just squeaking by. We didn't get credit
for those and we meet the statute -- or the code requirements, so I preferred not to have
any arguments with Sonya about that one. It didn't really matter. So, talking about the
points of discussion, as I read the record the neighborhood comments had focused on
two general themes, desire for larger lots on the northern boundary and a desire to make
the Dashwood emergency only access permanent. So, let's talk about the northern
boundary. The proposal that is now before you reduces the number of lots on the border
by 25 percent, from 15 units with five duplexes, to 11 all detached. So, a 25 percent
decrease. The average square footage on those lots went up to 5,661 square feet, from
about 3,800 square feet. But I think the numbers don't tell the whole story. You also have
to look at the transition and think about where we have -- we have to go from the south
to the north of this project. There is a lot of transition to cover in only about 600 feet. We
have to transition from Alpine Pointe's three units to the acre all the way to the Brickyard
development's multi-family in 22 to 30 units to the acre. Those multi-family areas in turn
surround commercial and retail around Ustick and Eagle and that's where you want
density to be. So, a little more context. This is what the -- the project to the south of us
looks like. That's the Brickyard. Again, 22 to 30 units per acre. And this is what it looks
like in terms of the -- the transition from the lot size from the Brickyard into our project and
we think we have transitioned this appropriately. The densities are certainly within the
limit of the zone and the medium density residential -- residential designation on the comp
plan. The other issue is the Dashwood stub. As you know, Meridian and ACHID really
emphasize conductivity. Meridian's Comprehensive Plan is filled with references to
conductivity. ACHID's policy manual was the same way. Dashwood is an existing stub
with public right of way. It's maintained at public expense and I'm showing these pictures
just to kind of give everyone a feel for what it looks like and what the -- what the challenge
is here. At the Council hearing back in November the direction was to revisit Dashwood
and see if there were other alternatives. Alpine Pointe's board indicated they would like
to see emergency only and I -- and I get the concern. You know, I think -- we think our
project functions just fine as long as we have emergency access at Dashwood. So, I
went to -- to see if I could get that done. I asked ACHID if we could have an emergency
access only there. I did not propose it to be temporary. At the time of the meeting without
Alpine Point at their HOA, which was February 18th, we did not yet have the ACHID
decision. I let the group know that my initial conversations with ACHID were encouraging,
but we needed to get their decision. I also explained the likely difficulty and I explained
that the Alpine Pointe folks could petition to vacate Dashwood to increase the chances of
what they wanted to see. I explained the --the process to do so during that meeting. Two
days later on February 20th ACHID issued their updated decision. They agreed to
emergency only, but only on a temporary basis. There are a lot of reasons for this,
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including the policies promoting connectivity, but we should be clear getting ACHD to
agree to this, even on a temporary basis, was significant and I personally considered it a
big win on behalf of the neighbors. I want to talk about a couple of other points that are
related there. First, you know, obviously, the neighbors would really like to see Dashwood
be permanent as emergency only. So, I went back to ACHD and asked, again, you know,
can this -- can this be a permanent emergency only condition and the answer was no.
Second. There have been several emergency -- or, excuse me, several alternative
layouts that have been floated in order to be -- they kind of have a common theme of
continuing Della which, is our east-west street on the north, out and through the project
to create another connection to Centrepoint. I ran that by ACHD as well. They said they
would not permit Della Street to punch through to the east with the current approved road
configuration. They have also said that even if Della punched through they still would not
agree to a permanent emergency only limitation. And, third, I also asked if we could enter
into a license agreement to landscape Dashwood. The idea that I had was to try to make
it look less like a road in the interim. Try to add to some of the comfort level there for
folks. But the -- again, the answer there was no. So, I just want to be clear that we have
tried to be -- I personally have tried to be very responsive to the neighbors' concerns.
Perhaps, you know, if -- if the neighbors apply to vacate Dashwood they can get to a
different result. I agree with the comments of the neighbors at the last meeting before
P&Z that a temporary emergency only limitation gives the neighborhood the opportunity
to continue to work on the issue, but I want to be clear that I do not oppose a permanent
emergency only condition on Dashwood and have, in fact, asked for it. So, I don't want
to be misunderstood when -- when that comes up through the course of the night. So, I
will try to wrap up. There may be additional questions and I'm certain there will be things
that come up through the course of the night, but I just want to emphasize that this project
is very much in accordance with the Comprehensive Plan, which calls for a medium
density and mixed use regional designation. There are no issues with the agencies. You
know, one thing I would like to emphasize is that Meridian water and sewer service
connections are at the property on the north and south and this will allow the -- your utility
folks to be able to -- to connect those loops. This is truly in-fill, which I know was a city
priority. As you know, the Comprehensive Plan is full of references to in-fill and this is one
of those instances where not here than where. I wish it weren't the case, but in-fill is
always hard and I think we have made significant modifications to satisfy the neighbors'
concerns. So, as I wrap up I want to talk a little bit about the conditions of approval in the
-- in the document. Okay. I will finish up very fast, Mr. Mayor. First with regard to the
trees, I just wanted to give everybody an idea of what we are talking about there. The
trees are pretty scrubby. They are not very healthy. They have been topped, because a
lot of them are underneath an Idaho Power line. We are happy to try to preserve them
where we can. I mean it saves us money if we can save -- if we can use the same trees.
But I just want everyone to be on the same page that that may not be the easiest thing to
do given what those trees look like. But keep in mind that the transition area where those
trees are located on the southwest includes the triangular kind of park area where the
public -- public art is going to be. I think that that provides an appropriate transition in any
case. With regard -- we had two modifications to the conditions of approval and I will be
done, Mr. Mayor. First is on the west side of the project we had previously shown duplex
product there. We are no longer limit -- we have single family detached there and so we
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are asking and given the reduction in the density we are asking to remove the single story
limitation on the west and, then, with regard to Dashwood, the request would be to remove
language that that has to be temporary and instead just allow it to track with ACHID, so
the additional conversations could be had. And, then, if ACHD changes their mind, then,
you wouldn't have to come back and modify this condition as well. With that I'm happy to
answer any questions.
Simison: Thank you, Hethe. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: In my business we do a big know your customer type focus and I'm a big believer
in fundamentally knowing who you are dealing with. Are you able to disclose who the
investors are in this new application?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I have been asked to -- by a group of investors
to be the person out front. This kind of stuff is not very much fun and it oftentimes is --
you end up taking the arrows. The group of investors that I'm working with are going to
be either identifying a new developer or a builder team if they end up doing the
development themselves. Ultimately this is not something where, you know, we judge it
based on who the applicant is or is not, but this is a group of investors that will most likely
not be involved in the product -- in the project long term. They would be looking to sell
their interest.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I -- I sort of understand what you are saying, but, you know, I -- it does strike me
as a little odd. And certainly we don't evaluate applications just on the basis of who is
doing them. I just find it a little strange. Have -- have the investors identified -- can you
give us a flavor for the type of investors that they are? They are -- the reason I'm asking
the question is there have been some concerns mentioned in the written testimony that,
you know, this could be sold to a total for rent subdivision or something along those lines
and I just was hoping you could give us a flavor as to the business plan and the types of
investors involved.
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council -- Council Woman Strader, I don't think I have much more to
add than what I said before there. They would be looking for potentially someone else to
purchase the project and move forward with it. So, there is not a plan along those lines.
Strader: Okay.
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Simison: Council, are there any other further questions for the applicant at this time?
Okay. Thank you very much.
Clark: Thank you.
Simison: So, Adrienne or Chris, would you mind explaining how we are going to proceed
through the next section -- sections so Council is aware. A little bit so I'm aware as well,
so I can time appropriately through the communication you have had with the neighbors.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, I would be happy to do that. Council Members, we have several
members from Alpine Pointe, the HOA, as well as the residents, who have signed up to
testify. In order to be efficient they have actually provided a PowerPoint presentation with
much of their material combined. So, they have given me an order of how those slides
are organized and so we have first the HOA president, who is not speaking as the HOA
representative, followed by a person who will be speaking as the HOA representative and,
then, followed by an additional four people that are part of this initial set. Beyond that we
do have another eight to ten people signed up to testify, as well as others in the room.
So, we would just be calling them in the order we have. Normally it's the order they have
signed up, but we are trying to work with what they have given us and call them in that
order.
Simison: So, Council, just so you are aware of what you just heard is you are going to
hear a three minute, a ten minute, multiple three minutes to get through one presentation,
followed by, then, additional people signing up to testify on this application. Councilman
Cavener?
Cavener- Mr. Mayor, thanks. I just want to get -- this is -- if I'm not mistaken this is
somewhat unorthodox to how we have typically done things. I'm not necessarily I'm -- I'm
opposed to it, I just -- this is really I think the first time that we have kind of had multiple
parties touching on what sounds to be like a neighborhood presentation over their allotted
time.
Simison- Mr. Cavener, I don't disagree with you. Just in my mind I -- put it this way. We
have a ten minute person go first and, then, every other person got up and spoke for three
minutes and they called up their own PowerPoint to do it, it's essentially -- in my opinion
it is a little bit outside of what I would call the spirit of the rules, but I don't think it's in
violation of the rules and, technically, I'm going to hold each person to their time. So, if
they don't get through their slides, then, they will just move on to the next person and so,
hopefully, all the attendees are hearing this as well that they will need to stick to their time
frame.
Cavener: And, Mr. Mayor, I agree, I think that from an efficiency standpoint it seems
appropriate. It just is very unorthodox of how we have done things and I just think it's
important for our neighbors to be aware of that. We are -- we are being pretty flexible
with this presentation style in light of kind of this new environment that we are in.
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Simison: Yeah. Mr. Nary, do you have anything you would like to add?
Nary: No, sir. I think that's exactly right, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Okay. All right. So, Mr. Clerk, if you want to bring them in and like everybody
else I -- I'm going to leave my -- my mute open, so that people can hear the timer go off
and I will ask all the presenters to, please, respect when the timer goes off to conclude
and I will try to give a one minute if you can see me. I know you can't always see
everybody, but that's what I will try to do. So, with that it looks like -- if you can state your
name and address for the record and once we have that I will start the time.
Weatherly: Okay. First we would like Frank Marcos to come to the podium.
Marcos: Can you hear me okay?
Simison: Yes, we can.
Marcos: Thank you. Frank Marcos. 2580 East Lakewood Drive, Meridian, Idaho. 83646.
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council President, and Council Members. From the beginning of
this proposed project Alpine Pointe residents have not been trying to stop this
development, but instead we have been encouraging better and wiser decisions that will
affect current and future residents of the Delano project, Alpine Pointe, and the City of
Meridian. Please understand your citizens desire is to see this project completed with a
good plan. After all, in the City of Meridian strategic plan it says that, quote, a plan poorly
implemented is like having no plan at all. Unquote. As evidenced early on by the many
submitted project proposals by the original developer and lack of community involvement,
this previously was a poorly planned project. The previous City Council recognized this
when they remanded the original plan by the Conger group and demanded that he meet
with the residents of Alpine Pointe. While additional meetings did occur, the residents
individually and collectively have asked for Dashwood to remain closed permanently. We
have been steadfast in that and the option for temporary was not what we were looking
for. While Mr. Conger offered to ask for a temporary closure, which he did, that was, in
essence, not our outcome that we desired. Our residents, your citizens, have been very
vocal about this project from the beginning as evidenced by the previous meeting's
attendance numbers. Some of you have experienced this firsthand in the P&Z committee
meetings and the City Council meetings. There were hundreds of pages of testimony,
but what you are missing is being able to see us. We appreciate tremendously the
opportunity to do this through the efforts of your city employees. However, we -- we really
-- we can't emphasize that the opportunity to be in front of you was really a strong point
of what we were trying to do. In addition, we recognize the importance of transparency.
Thank you, Council -- Council Woman Strader -- to each of you and the City of Meridian
employees, we ask that you continue to demand the applicant to disclose who the
developer is and who the builder is and the reason for this is that we know that there is
nothing improper occurring. P&Z member Patty Pitzer was vetted by the City Council
prior to our recent P&Z meeting as she's a resident of Alpine Pointe. According to public
record she was vetted. For additional research we found that P&Z Chairman Ryan
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Fitzgerald recently worked for the Conger group. Mr. Fitzgerald was not vetted due to his
relationship with that developer, at least as far as we know. Since Mr. Clark will not
disclose whether or not Mr. Conger is still the developer, there is a strong possibility of a
lack of transparency and due process in the previous P&Z meeting, as Mr. Fitzgerald
sided with the applicant. Hopefully, by reading the written material we presented and
hearing the verbal testimony tonight you are able to make the correct decision to close
Dashwood permanently. We would like to thank City Council, P&Z, and city staff
employees for their patience and guidance through this process, for allowing us the
opportunity to help shape the future of Meridian. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council President
and Council city -- City Council Members.
Simison: Council, any question for Mr. Marcos?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks. I guess -- I assume we are going to maybe take questions from each
person that testifies.
Simison: Yes.
Cavener: Mr. Marcos, appreciate your testimony tonight and in your e-mails about this
application your -- your comments about people being in the room have intrigued me. I
think that probably -- I try really hard to never speak for the Council, but I'm sure that we
would all prefer to be in Council Chambers and see all of our citizens in that room, but I
guess I'm trying to understand what you are hoping to convey or what your concern is
that you are unable to convey by not being in the room physically and how that pertains
to the application.
Marcos: Thank you, Councilman Cavener. In our recent meetings, whether it's P&Z,
ACHID, or that City Council meeting, it was extremely visible that the presence of all of
our residents in those rooms had an impact on each of the members of those committees
and we know, having seen other presentations, very seldom is there such an output of
interest in a project like this and so I know that -- we appreciate the opportunity to do this
by way of virtual meeting, but what I'm trying to stress, sir, is that we would have overfilled
that -- that City Hall meeting because our neighbors are concerned. We are concerned
about this project, about the lack of transparency, about things that have gone on and
while we appreciate Mr. Clark coming in and taking over for whomever -- we still don't
know. There is still -- there is still that -- that opportunity of being present. For example,
can you see me? I don't even know if you see me. I can't see that you can see me. We
saw Hethe. Mr. Clark. So, a big part of my letter writing has to do with we want to be
able to have you see us, so you understand our passion behind this. I hope that answers
your question.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Yes.
Johnson: Mr. Marcos, you have the ability to turn your camera on. I'm not able to turn it
on for you, but everyone presenting tonight does have that capability.
Marcos: And how do I do that? Or it's too late now, but, hopefully, the rest of our people
-- again that wasn't -- I didn't see that in the instructions if it was there. My apologies.
Cavener: And, Mr. Mayor, a comment if I may.
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Frank, just for your own benefit -- again, I'm not sure what your perspective is.
We are able to see a significant list of attendees that are --that are watching online. While
I don't -- I don't take a roll in these meetings, it does appear this is probably the largest
contingent of attendees that we have had in one of these virtual meetings since we have
done them. So, I appreciate your desire to make sure that your -- your neighbors are
visibly represented from attending this meeting. I appreciate it.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Marcos: Thank you very much.
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor, thank you. Mr. Marcos, I really appreciate you being here tonight and
testifying in regard to this application and representing, so to speak, in some -- some of
your neighbors and conveying your interest. I also want to make it crystal clear to you,
Mr. Marcos, that, you know, whether you are -- you give your testimony via audio or -- or
via camera, I promise you it carries the same weight. I know that you have a concern
with that and I respect that concern and because of that I just -- I just want to make it clear
to you -- and it's really important for me and my Council Members to let you know that,
again, whether you are on camera or if you have combed your hair or brushed your teeth,
to us it -- honestly, I just -- we just want to know the facts. We want to know data and we
want--we want to hear your concerns and whether that's on camera or in audio, it speaks
volumes. It speaks equally. So, I just wanted to let you know that. Thank you for being
here tonight.
Marcos- Thank you so much and we appreciate your -- your openness to that and
willingness to -- as you just said -- listen to the facts, go by the facts, because that's really
what we are hoping to -- to accomplish here with -- with all the testimony. So, thank you
very much.
Bernt: You're welcome. My pleasure.
Simison: Council, any additional questions for Mr. Marcos? Okay. Well --
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Adrienne. Please.
Weatherly: Next up we have Malissa Bernard.
Simison: Okay. Thank you, Malissa. And I understand you will be speaking on behalf of
a group of residents and you will have ten minutes to present. So, you are aware, if you
would like to activate your camera, there should be an element -- I think in the left hand
corner. It doesn't always show up. You're going to have to mouse over if you want to be
present and for the Council's information, in addition to the people that are in our wait
mode, we have about 26 people watching online. So, with that I will turn this over to you
for ten minutes and I will also give you a one minute wrap up time frame.
Bernard: Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. Can you hear
me all right? Okay. I would like to -- could we put this into presentation mode? It's -- it's
actually showing up as -- as huge on my side.
Johnson: I have it in the mode I can get it in, Malissa.
Bernard: Okay. You will have to bear with me as I use my iPad. It will be a little easier
for me to start. My name is Malissa Bernard. I live at 4025 North Dashwood Place in
Meridian, Idaho. No one's seeking to bend the rules or anything, we just felt it was easier
to submit one PowerPoint presentation, rather than try to load down several of these just
for ease and simplicity. I am representing Alpine Pointe, most of my neighbors, and as
you know that there has been a letter submitted and signed by over 180 people thus far
and these are the things that we are seeking for our neighborhood. The transparency
issue has been covered. We are hoping for a full scope of plans. This is a little too vague
and I think the city should know who they are dealing with and what the project actually
is. We are seeking reduced density on the Cook parcel. That would be the multi-family
from the renderings you saw three and four story models. We were seeking a two story
limit. We are surrounded by three story product and we feel that would be a better
transition to offices and -- and to our neighborhood. Also close Dashwood to vehicular
traffic in perpetuity. There is another ingress-egress for Delano and you can see that in
the ACHD e-mail traffic that is online and there is one chance to get this right. This in-fill
is coming. I know it's a big city push. So, let's get the right things available. Thank you,
Chris. ACHD accepted Dashwood as a closed cul-de-sac in 2005. Next slide, please.
The reasons for Dashwood -- city staff looked at this plan and decided that the Bollinger
parcel would be landlocked or there was a long block face on the Wainwright. Well, with
the redevelopment of Zebulon Heights, as that came along, the long block face wasn't an
issue anymore and the Bollinger parcel was never landlocked, which makes this a moot
point. Next slide, please. Here is -- there has been mistakes. This is a city planning and
also an ACHD mistake. Look at the proximity of all these three roads onto a collector.
You are supposed to have 330 feet between the roads on collectors. One of these is 165
feet. The other one is 130. And this is very important to remember the 330 rule. Next
slide, please. As you can see at 25 miles per hour per ACHD you are supposed to have
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330 feet between streets. Now, this is going to be planned as your mid mile collector,
even though it was a residential street with front-on housing. With this dangerous
situation that the roads being so close we are going to have a problem. This is going to
be very unsafe. Next slide, please. Dashwood proximity to Rosepoint, which is another
road on the collector, is only 183 feet approximately. You are to have 330 feet between
the street and access points. So, Dashwood is probably accepted by ACHD as a cul-de-
sac, because you are going to have limited traffic. You are going to have maybe 80 car
trips per day. If you open Dashwood to Delano and Centrepoint Way -- I'm sorry. To all
the -- the traffic from the Brickyard, the commercial, et cetera, you are going to cause a
big problem here. I don't know how this got by ACHD. How this got by the city planning
staff. If you open Dashwood you are just asking for a disaster. Next slide, please. Thank
you. And as you can see it's a very short segment of road and you can see Rosepoint is
very long. It's going to be for the collector streets to take you to McMillan. Also I would
like to point out that Dashwood is only about 540 feet from the Centrepoint collector that's
proposed. So, why do you need another access point? Again, it should be 330 feet
distance between these access points. Next slide, please. Thank you. In 2005 ACHD
policy was no front-on housing on collector streets. Well, this is what -- essentially what
you are going to be doing. This is all front-on housing. You are going to be creating a de
facto collector element and most of Alpine Pointe is front-on housing. Next slide, please.
You also tied to naming conventions in Ada county and in the City of Meridian. Place is
defined as a north-south cul-de-sac in both Ada county and the City of Meridian. And City
of Meridian goes further to say place when you use that name is a dead end street. Next
slide, please. This has been in place for almost all of my life. I was seven years old when
this ordinance came out. As you can see place is defined as a north-south dead end
street or a cul-de-sac. So, when people buy on a place it means a dead end or a cul-de-
sac. Next slide, please. These are places all through Meridian. Most of these are in
Meridian. There is a couple from Boise. These are all donut cul-de-sacs, hammerheads,
whatever you call them. Some of them are Snoopy. These are all places and they are
all dead ends. Dashwood Place is the exception, not the rule. Next slide, please. As you
can see, this looks very similar to Dashwood, but it's named Gray Towers and it's drive
and it's signed to be continued in the future. Next slide, please. This also applies to Sky
Mesa. There is a way and a drive and these are all --they look somewhat like Dashwood,
but since they are named a different way that implies they are going to be continued.
Next slide, please. Tricia is named a way and is signed to be continued in the future.
This looks very similar, but it's not the same. It's not named place. It's not named court.
Next slide, please. City Council has the authority to waive 11-3A-3, which is access to
streets. You have done this in the past with stubs via City Council decision. Next slide,
please. The utilities are already existing on the Bollinger parcel. Dashwood is not
necessary for Delano. There is water. There is sewer. There is a fence line. You probably
just need electric -- electric, cable, and such, but all the access points and easements are
easily available on the Bollinger parcel. Next slide, please. Stub streets that did not
connect. You have got Dvorak and Barclay on Three Corners Ranch. Upriver, which is
adjacent to BridgeTower Heights and Alaska, which is down by the Lowe's and Walmart
in Meridian. South Meridian. Now, you will notice the ones in the middle, they are very
close to collectors and arterial streets, but yet City Council decided to close these stubs.
Next slide, please. In conclusion, place means cul-de-sac and dead end. You have 14
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families who have bought and sold on the street based on its name, based on its
appearance, based on its lack of signage. But there has been mistakes in this
neighborhood made by ACHID and the city. If you were to open Dashwood completely to
traffic you are going to create a twin de facto collector element. I think the best thing to
do is to make a motion this evening to close North Dashwood Place forever to through
traffic to avoid the situation. You are going to have a very dangerous road being 182 to
185 feet from Rosepoint, which, essentially, is -- is very very dangerous. It's already very
very dangerous on Camas Creek with those three streets so close together. A lot of
people make huge lifetime investments based on the information we see. The city failed
us by not requiring the signs to be there. They named it a place. They created it to look
like a cul-de-sac and in every sense it is a cul-de-sac and that's what it should remain. Is
there any questions?
Simison: Thank you. Counsel, any questions? Okay.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I don't -- I don't have any questions right now, but maybe just a request that as
the presentation goes on if maybe Malissa might be available later on in case any
questions do arise.
Bernard: Absolutely. I will be available. Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Adrienne.
Weatherly: Next we have Sandi King.
Simison: Okay.
King: Can you hear me?
Simison: Yes, we can.
King: Thankyousomuch. I want to thank the Mayor and City Council for allowing -- are
we okay? I just heard another voice, so --
Simison- We are now muted. Go ahead. And if you could state your name and address
for the record.
King: No problem. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't in the wrong. So, I live at 2453
East Honeywood Court in Alpine Pointe. I have previously been on the board. I am no
longer on the board. So, I have been present for the meetings with Mr. Clark, along with
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several other members. I would like to say every meeting we had with him specifically
Dashwood was number one and we made that very very clear. Dashwood being closed
has always been number one. And so I want to make sure that you understand that as
well. And to the issue as to this being an on running PowerPoint, we were hoping to save
city time and staff, because it is difficult being in a Zoom environment it isn't always as
smooth as when you are physically there. So, if you can look at the screen that's up right
now, the --the --the two streets that have the red dashed lines on them, the one is actually
coming off of McMillan and it's Camas Creek. The other one is Wainwright coming in off
of Eagle. That is where the chains were back in -- hold on just a second. In March.
March20of2019. That is the last traffic study that was done. I raised this issue atACHD
at their hearing and it was ignored. That study did not run for seven days as it shows in
the -- in the printout from ACHD, it was only a few days that it actually was in place and
being counted. It was also during spring break, which meant a lot of people were gone
and the people that leave during the winter were also not here. So, the number of traffic
was much lower than it is on a normal day. So, those traffic numbers have been
considered at every level and every hearing and they are flawed and I asked previously
to have a new traffic study done if you want to use numbers to -- yes. Oh, one minute?
Simison: One minute left.
King: Oh. Okay. So, I'm going to just jump to the other. So, the yellow circles are the
existing ingress-egress. The blue circles are the proposed. Dashwood is number eight.
I strongly ask that you close Dashwood permanently to traffic. There are many
handicapped residents on that street. It is a small street. It -- granted it's wider than a --
than some streets, but it is still a small residential area. Something else to consider.
Delano -- Delano proposed 27 foot width, if you start looking at what you are anticipating
to have on Dashwood, you are way over the numbers when you consider a parking on
one side, 27 foot street subdivision. So, I appreciate all of your time. I appreciate your
allowing us to give testimony. Lastly, on the R-40 apartments, we would ask that it be a
lower R number. If you are looking at our subdivision versus the surrounding ones from
an R-4 to an R-20 to 30, you are jumping dramatically and we are already flushed with so
many people and so many residences in a very very tight condensed area. So, I would
ask that it not be in R-40. Thank you. And if you have any questions.
Simison- Council, any questions?
Hoaglun- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun- Sandi, thanks you for your presentation. There at the end you were talking
about the blue circles and I understand what you are talking about Dashwood, but I
wanted to find out real quick -- seven and nine, what -- what was -- what's -- what are
those?
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King: Seven is Rogue River. That is signed and posted to be continued in the future as
it's developed. Nine is Centrepoint Way, which is the collector.
Hoaglun: Okay. Great. Thank you.
King: You're welcome. Thank you for your question.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: One second. Council, any -- any further questions? Okay. Yes, Adrienne.
Weatherly: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Next is Ken Clifford.
Simison: Mr. Clifford, if you could state your name and address for the record, please.
And you will have three minutes.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, this is Chris. I'm attempting to find Mr. Clifford and unmute him.
You have the ability to mute and unmute yourself, but you are unmuted.
Clifford: Can you hear me?
Simison: We can, Mr. Clifford.
Clifford: Okay. My name is Kenneth Clifford. I'm at 4523 North Rosepoint Place,
Meridian, Idaho. I oppose this application as submitted and appeal to the City Council to
deny both the request for annexation and zoning of the 15.22 acres of land and a request
for a preliminary plat for Delano Subdivision. There has been much discussion about
whether North Dashwood Place should be extended as a full street, remain a closed cul-
de-sac or something in between. I'm advocating that North Dashwood Place remain a
closed cul-de-sac in perpetuity. You can see from this slide up here the original design
forAlpine Pointe was submitted with North Dashwood Place as a closed cul-de-sac. You
saw in Malissa's slide number four ACHD approved the plat with Dashwood as a closed
cul-de-sac that looked just like the cul-de-sac on either side. Next slide. Meridian City
staff recommended that a stub be created to provide access to the Wignall's parcel, now
Bollinger, to the south should it ever become landlocked. Next slide. Dashwood does
look different, because it was designed to accommodate a possible driveway access to
the Bollinger parcel if it became landlocked. It's no longer needed. Next slide. This slide
shows the in-fill area that we have been talking about. Next slide. The traffic from the in-
fill area could equal that of a small city. The Delano project and City of Meridian have not
adequately resolved traffic concerns. Next slide. West Ada School District asked
Meridian City Council to deny the Delano Subdivision application because of school
overcrowding. Next slide.
Simison: One minute more, Mr. Clifford.
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Clifford: School overcrowding still exists and will continue. The developer has been trying
to pound a square peg into a round hole for more than two years. It is obvious that this
project does not work for this in-fill. This project does not work. I think that it needs ---
it's just the wrong development for this in-fill. Please keep Dashwood Place a closed cul-
de-sac in perpetuity and deny the request for annexation and zoning of the 15.22 acres
and deny the request for a preliminary plat as submitted. Thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: If it's possible on the topic of schools, I did have a question for staff. I could
save it for a different time or since we are on the topic now I could ask it now.
Simison: As far as I'm concerned you can ask the question now if you would like to.
Strader: Okay. I was wondering if staff has had an opportunity--this has been an ongoing
discussion and a frustration for Council of not understanding I think the global capacity
numbers for WestAda. Are there-- are we aware of any other middle schools in the entire
West Ada School District that have capacity?
Allen: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I'm sorry, I can't answer that.
Strader: Thought I would ask the question. Thank you.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: If I remember correctly, Council Member Strader, there was an application that
we had a few weeks ago that Victory I believe is under capacity.
Bernt: Meridian Middle.
Cavener: Maybe it was Meridian Middle. One of the two elementaries that was impacted
from the application that we saw a couple of weeks ago was not at their full capacity. For
your benefit.
Strader: Thank you.
Allen: Council Woman Strader, if I may. If-- if you are thinking of these types of questions
before the hearing, please, feel free to reach out to staff and I can certainly obtain that
information prior to the hearing for you.
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Strader: Mr. Mayor, follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I think it -- to me it's a bigger data request than on individual applications.
Like I would like to see district wide what the capacity is for each school and I would like
to understand what expansion projects they have funded or taken on already, such as
adding portables or expanding them, and I would like a projection of, you know, what we
expect the student population to be in the next two years based on the projects that we
have approved and entitled and so I -- if we could get that information perhaps in a larger
request, because I think it is an ongoing amount of information that -- that I have asked
for now pretty much on every development and you could consider it that I will ask it every
single time. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any other questions? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Clifford.
Clifford: Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Adrienne.
Weatherly: Next we have Laura Trairatnobhas.
Simison: Okay. I see Laura's in the room. If you would like to unmute herself and video
if you would like and you -- if you would state your name and address for the record and
you will have three minutes.
Trairatnobhas: Okay. Can you hear me and see me?
Simison: Yes.
Trairatnobhas: Great. All right. I'm Laura Trairatnobhas, 4621 North Camas Creek Way
in Alpine Pointe. First point I would like to say is that we are not asking that Dashwood
be vacated. We are asking that Meridian City Council close it in perpetuity, obviously,
with ingress and egress for emergency services. But that is not the same thing as
vacation. We are not asking for a vacation. Just closure. I'm very concerned about who
is going to be developing this project and what it will be. I really appreciate Council
Woman Strader asking Mr. Clark some very pointed questions, which I realized for legal
reasons perhaps he is not able at this time to answer. However, I do feel that it is
incumbent on the City Council to find out what the actual final project will be and when I
say that I mean is it going to be build to rent or are we building homes that individuals can
buy and live in. We need more homes for people to buy and live in. We do not need
another large rental project. I am especially concerned -- Mr. Clark said -- and I'm going
to quote here. He said the investors won't be involved long term. They will sell -- he
suspects they will sell their investment. To me that does sound like something that's going
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to be sold as a whole as a -- you know, a build to rent project. My request tonight is that
the City Council come down firmly against that and that you require that the project not
be build to rent. I'm really not sure how this is handled. I know that Meridian has had
several build to rent projects built in the last few years and I'm just asking that you take
this on as a serious question. We need to know what the product will be. We would also
like it if the project -- the apartments did not go over two stories. Next slide, please. And
just a couple things to point out. COMPASS -- that's our community -- okay. Community
Planning Association says we are going to have about 4,850 homes in a one mile radius
of this development with a very poor job-to-housing ratio of 0.7. You want your job-to-
housing ratio to be somewhere between one to 1.5, so that you don't have too much
congestion. Obviously, the fewer jobs the farther people have to drive. Police and fire
barely qualify as far as distance goes. And the last slide, please. And the nearest bus
stop is 1.8 miles. So, we should not be kidding ourselves and saying that people in the
apartments are going to somehow walk or ride bikes or take buses to work. They will be
driving. They will be coming through Alpine Pointe if Dashwood is open and we are
exceeding the growth forecast according to COMPASS for transport infrastructure. So,
that's what I have. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Simison: Thank you. Council, are there any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: A question maybe for -- for Mr. Nary. Because the topic keeps coming up I
think it's a good opportunity for either you or for Council to address it, because it will
refresh my memory. Mr. Nary, as I recall Council is unable to include how the properties
will be used, whether they are a for sale by owner, rental, rental as an individual unit,
rental as a group, in rendering our decision on this application. Is my recollection correct?
Does that deal with fair housing rules or am I -- am I not remembering correctly?
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Cavener, you are remembering
exactly correctly. We have no authority to require that the applicant reveal who they are
or what their long term plans are. You are dealing with entitlement of land uses based on
your comp plan and your ordinances. Whoever builds it is whoever builds it. It may be
the person that Mr. Clark is representing today. It could be sold to somebody else and be
built. Yes, based on fair housing laws we have no authority or ability to prevent or deny
an application because the intention is to build to rent or build to own. We don't prohibit
anybody from renting out their home, whether it's in Alpine Pointe, whether it's anywhere
else. Again, that's a completely different decision that is not at the city level. So, we don't
have any ability to address that concern that's been raised tonight. Mr. Clark certainly
has no legal responsibility or obligation to tell us who his client is and we can't deny it
based on that either.
Cavener- Okay. Thank you, Mr. Nary.
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Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Mr. Nary, good looking face on camera, another question for him. To --
to follow up with Laura's comment about the proposed apartment project and mandating
about the heights and different things, in my -- again, I think my recollection is that unless
it is before us there is nothing -- there is no action we can take on that; is that right?
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, Council Member Hoaglun, yes, you are correct.
The applicant has basically told you that it's a concept there, they would have to come
back with a conditional use permit to build any type of apartment there, whether it's two
story, three or four. Obviously, it will have to comply with what our codes are at the time
they apply. So, there will be other additional public hearings if that will become a multi-
family apartment complex, whether it's two, three, or four, whatever they are proposing,
there will be other additional hearings. But tonight that's not before you.
Hoaglun: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Council, any further questions for Laura? And, I'm sorry, I won't try to pronounce
your last name. Okay. Thank you very much.
Trairatnobhas: Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Adrienne.
Weatherly: Next is Mike Bernard.
Simison: Okay. Mr. Bernard, if you would state your name and address for the record
and you will have three minutes.
M.Bernard: Sir, can you hear me?
Simison: Barely.
M.Bernard: How about now?
Simison: The closer you get the better.
M.Bernard: Okay. So, my name is Mike Bernard. I live at 4025 North Dashwood Place.
I hope to demonstrate to you tonight the scope of this issue is much larger than a concern
about Alpine Pointe residents for those of us on Dashwood Place and the connection of
the Delano application. You can see on this slide we have a mix of residential high density
and commercial properties and it lies near one of the busiest intersections in the state of
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Idaho. Now, if you add all those up, depending on future developments, we are going to
be pushing close to one thousand residential units. Now that doesn't even take into
account traffic from the commercial properties to the south. Slide. May I have the next
slide? Thank you. On this slide you can see in red Centrepoint Way, both as it exists and
as it will extend to the north of the ingress into Delano. Now, those are designated as
commercial collectors according to both the county and the city. Now, designated in
yellow you will see what staff is recommending -- the connection through the Delano
proposal onto Dashwood Place and, then, to Alpine Pointe. All residential streets. Next
slide, please. Now, here is just a close up view of what I have previously demonstrated.
The yellow solid line going through the Delano application onto Dashwood and eventually
Wainwright and Alpine Pointe. Now, as you heard mentioned earlier, the Delano
applications are relatively narrow streets with only enough room for parking on one side.
If we permanently closed Dashwood as we are proposing and recommending that you do
tonight, it's actually in the interest of not only the Alpine Pointe residents, but it's in the
interest of the future Delano residents as well and I will explain why. If you look at how
they are designed you basically have -- would have two closed loops without the addition
of Dashwood Place. Two closed loops, Mr. Mayor. So, I ask any of you where would you
rather live? Would you rather live on a busy thoroughfare or a residential street that
somebody had turned into a de facto commercial collector, or would you rather live on a
closed cul-de-sac or a closed loop? I think in written testimonial you will find some real
estate agents who have indicated that they can have a significant impact on your property
values thorough -- thoroughfare versus closed loops up to and including 20 percent and
an increase in those property values are good for all of us, both the city and the
homeowner. Next slide, please. Thank you. So, just very briefly highlighted you see the
definitions of the collector streets versus local residential streets and their purpose. It's
pretty clear a connection through Delano and onto Dashwood Place would be a violation
here. That's without even considering the code violations mentioned earlier relative to
intersection spacing as it connects to Wainwright. And slide, please.
Simison: Mr. Bernard, if you could wrap up your testimony, please.
Bernard: That is what this slide is about. I'm wrapping it up now, sir. So, in summary, it
seems there has been a handful of errors and oversights related to the Alpine Pointe
Subdivision in this application that have been approved by this body in the past. I'm
willing to chalk that up to maybe bad advice, human error, and the fact that none of us
have a crystal ball. Tonight I'm asking you all to demonstrate the integrity referenced in
your campaigns and do the right thing for all of us, both current residents and those future
residents that don't have a voice tonight. Do not connect Dashwood Place. Return it to
its original intended purpose as a cul-de-sac. Require that connect--connectivity to occur
where it belongs via the commercial collector on Centrepoint. If necessary build onto
Dashwood Place just as an extension for emergency vehicles and build it to those
specifications of the 20 foot. Finally, please, Mr. Mayor, Council Members, fix this tonight.
Don't kick it down the road, but fix it tonight. This was created, as we have heard in earlier
testimony, by a recommendation from City Council. So, the city needs to fix this. It's not
a county problem, it's a city problem that you all have the authority to fix tonight. That
concludes my prepared testimony.
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Simison: Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Adrienne.
Weatherly: That concludes the collective presentation by the homeowners. There are
several other people signed up, so we will go with that list if that's okay with you and first
up would be Christine Marcos.
Simison: Okay. And for anybody else who is in the Zoom meeting and if you have not
yet signed up, just, please, use the raise your hand function and we will make sure that
we get you queued up to go in at the appropriate time to speak on this item.
Johnson: Mr. Mayor, I do not see Christine Marcos, but I do see Frank Marcos, so I have
moved him in to be able to speak. I'm not sure if she's using his account.
Simison: Okay.
Marcos: Mayor, if you can hear me, Christine did not want to speak tonight. Shehadjust
answered the questions on the testimonial sign-up. That's all.
Simison: Okay. All right. Thank you, Frank.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, that would bring Dorene Mills up next.
Simison- Okay. If you could state your name and address the record, Dorene, and you
will have three minutes.
Mills: My name is Dorene Mills and I live at 2611 East Granadillo in Alpine Pointe and
most of the residents in Alpine Pointe are a little bit older. There is not that many young
families and so not a lot of those people can be on the Zoom meeting, because they don't
understand the technology, so I'm feeling bad that they are being left out of this and it's
-- it's because of the situation today with the Coronavirus and everything, but I'm just
another member of the neighborhood who wants to keep the street closed as a cul-de-
sac. It does not have a sign that says it will be a through street and it needs to stay closed
forever. Thank you.
Simison- Thank you, Mrs. Mills. Council, any questions? Thank you.
Weatherly- Mr. Mayor, next we have Mike C.
Johnson- Mr. Mayor, I cannot identify that person, so I would ask if they would raise their
hand if they are here on the call.
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Simison: Okay. Well, since I don't see anybody raising their hand, we can move on to
the next person.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Ali Crane.
Simison: Okay.
Weatherly: And Ali will have a PowerPoint I believe, so it will take just a second.
Simison: Okay.
Crane: Hello, Mr. Mayor and City -- and City Council Members. Thank you. My name is
Ali Crane. I live at 2654 East Mahoney Street, which is in the Champion Park Subdivision,
which is to the south and I will be speaking to trees. If you look -- I have basically just
taken a few of the slides from the proposal and we are right on the -- my -- my property
is basically on that corner lot which is -- is basically looking at the trees at Jasmine Lane.
If you can go to the next slide that would be great. Couldn't really find the contact
information with the developers and -- and I know that they have done a really good job
and I appreciate them trying to work with people. However, we really wanted to talk about
that southern boundary, because Champion Park is zoned R-8. We have .29 acre lots
and Delano is zoned R-1 5 at the bottom part -- at the new proposed lot. So, this this is
the previous drawing. Oh-oh. Can --
Johnson: I apologize. I'm trying to get you back on the screen.
Crane: Okay. Sorry. I hope this doesn't count against my three minutes, so okay.
Thank you. The -- the initial proposal and -- and I -- it's kind of been one of those things
where the last city Planning and Zoning I wasn't as prepared, because the original
proposal that went forward obviously there were a lot more concerns to the north, but
the southern aspect wasn't we didn't have as many concerns, because the developers
were maintaining the trees. So, on that second slide you can see the existing trees and
they are evergreen trees and -- and we will -- we will have a different picture of what ours
looked like. So, you can see they had Jasmine Lane extended. Sidewalk. Trees.
Additional trees they were adding. Some of which I think is benefiting Delano, because
on the eastern side of this is the Brickyard, which everybody talks about not being a great
view, but for the few houses in Champion Park that do border this subdivision it was pretty
important for us to have that separation. If you can go to the next slide. So, when they
revised the proposal they took out the trees from the back. They had never -- there was
nothing -- anything mentioned about the homeowners wanting to keep their trees or -- or
cut them down for lumber. It was just there. So, I think what they did was when they
changed the northern part they added the higher density to the southern boundary and
-- and -- and added that park, which we do appreciate, because that does border all of
our backyard. However, 17 and 16 -- or actually number 17 -- Lot 17 on that southern
border, that lot is -- excuse me. I have to look at my notes. Set -- setback. The height
and setback difference would be 12 feet off of our back patio. So, it's very very close.
And there isn't any information -- I haven't seen any information on that lower level -- or
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that last row of houses if it would be single level or double level. So, we would like to ask
the city to require the developer to either retain all the existing pine trees, if possible, as
well as restricting the height of Lot 17 and 16 to one story, because that does impact
because of the nature of that. And the last slide. I just want to show you our view of the
trees. Now, granted, there are some weeds back there, but the trees -- the house on the
left -- or the picture on the left is from my backyard. So, those are the -- that's the -- the
trees that we are seeing. If we were to -- and, then, on the right if the houses were to
start -- basically that property line to the post we would have a house 12 feet off of our
back patio. So, that's kind of what we are asking for. I did speak to my neighbor to the
east. They were in agreement. They also felt like the trees were going to be there. We
didn't have a need to really bring it up, but with this new proposal we felt like we needed
to discuss trying to maintain those trees and the single level. So, thank you for your time.
Sorry about the PowerPoint issue.
Simison: Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Ali, I appreciate your presentation. I'm not sure if you have been here for the
full meeting. When the applicant was going through his -- his narrative he indicated that
some of these trees are -- are sick or dying and I'm just curious what your thoughts are
about those particular trees and what mitigation needs to be done or ultimately who is
responsible. If those trees remain and they actually are sick and they die.
Crane- Yeah. That's true. And I -- to tell you the truth, I don't even know where those
trees are, because they are not anywhere close to us. I don't know if they are at the far
-- that would be the -- the eastern part of the property closest to Eagle Road, because all
of the trees that -- that we have -- I would say within the -- the two -- and I'm going to refer
to the two homes, which if you look at the -- the very first slide there is really two homes
in Champion Park that this subdivision is impacting. The trees in that area are all -- they
are all healthy. I mean, obviously, with the power lines -- and my assumption is that these
power lines would be -- would have to be taken down anyway, because they are right
over lots, if you look down the -- that tree line those power lines would be taken down
anyway, so --
Simison: Council, any further questions?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: Mrs. Crane, thank you for the testimony. Part of -- all that we review in
preparation for today touches on -- in part on what you have raised and just a comment
that you have highlighted and I think the -- the applicant will address. At the -- at the tail
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end of this is one of the design elements in the prior design utilized not only those trees,
but Jasmine Lane as a transition and buffer from property to the south to this residential
area. So, I think you have raised a good concern that will need to be addressed is trying
to articulate the reason why the relocation of Jasmine and placing these -- these
properties adjacent to the fence line not only removes the trees, but it also eliminates
what otherwise could have been an appropriate buffer. So, I appreciate you bringing up
those points.
Crane: Thank you. I actually was trying to find out if these trees were unique or if they
were home to some rare bird, but I never actually found that, so -- I was trying -- been
trying to figure out how to save the trees.
Simison: Council, any further questions? All right. Thank you very much.
Crane: Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Tim Fritzley.
Simison: Okay. Thank you very much. If you would state your name and address for the
record.
Fritzley: Yes. This is Tim Fritzley and I live at 4585 North Camas Creek Way in Alpine
Pointe. Can everybody hear me okay? Hello?
Simison: Yes. We can hear you fine. We can hear you. Sorry.
Fritzley- Oh. Okay. Sorry about that. Had a little pause there. I was going to make
some very quick points here. I think Council Woman Strader hit it in her very first question
here. Codes are not laws and can be overruled on a case-by-case basis by an authorized
and empowered commission or council. The city council is authorized or empowered to
make the changes to the code based on the specific circumstances presented here today.
In point of fact, the city P&Z staff has not interpreted the codes correctly and the
recommendation to open North Dashwood Place is ill formed. It's obvious from the
testimony here today that North Dashwood Place was never designated as a through
street and homeowners within Alpine Pointe Subdivision made substantive financial
decisions based upon North Dashwood remaining a cul-de-sac forever. By opening up
North Dashwood Place, the property devaluation across Alpine Pointe would be
substantive and could be viewed as an illegal taking by the city. Is the city prepared to
compensate a large number of Alpine Pointe homeowners for this illegal taking resultant
property devaluation. This is a very serious question and one I want to make sure that
the City Council takes into consideration as they review this tonight. I would strongly urge
the Council to make the right and logical decision and make North Dashwood Place what
it was originally intended to be a, cul-de-sac forever. Thanks very much.
Simison- Thank you. Council, any questions? All right. Thank you very much.
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next is Sherry Garey.
Simison: All right. Sherry, if you could state your name and address just for the record.
You will have three minutes.
Garey: Okay. If I'm on there. Anyway, thank you, Mr. Mayor and the City Council, for
allowing us to participate in this. I am Sherry. S-h-e-r-r-y. Garey. G-a-r-e-y. I live at
4563 North Camas Creek Way and I just want to be able to comment and express my
support and all the concurrence of the information that you have received tonight from
ourAlpine Pointe neighbors. There are several of them, in particular Malissa Bernard and
the other that did a lot of extensive research through the last actually months and years
of several of the issues that you have to consider tonight and I really ask that you, please,
give their testimonies and all of the testimonies that you have received in written form to
give your thoughtful consideration to those and others have expressed and I want to
reiterate that we are not just trying to be self serving for our neighborhood, we all are
concerned about the potential negative aspects of a through street on Dashwood and
how that would affect any of the potential of people living to the south of our subdivision,
particularly in the tight quarters and the roads of all of those subdivision post Delano and
the apartments as far as that goes if you start increasing so much traffic north-south
through that. My husband and I are fourth generation Idahoans and we have lived within
the neighboring communities of Boise, we have lived in a rural part of north Ada county
and we have lived in Garden City, but after 32 years we chose, about a year and a half
ago, to move to the City of Meridian -- Meridian for our final residency and one of the
primary reasons for the fact that Meridian's reputation of being a very respectful and
strong family friendly community and so we, along with all of the other folks in this
neighborhood, made significant financial investments to become part of Meridian and we
continue to make substantial investments in our properties as we speak. Literally there
is several going on right now and it was quite a shock to us, after being fairly new residents
here this last year and a half, to find out that the ACHD and the city would even consider
routing commuter and commercial traffic through our residential neighborhood and
particularly in a scenario such as ours that are all front facing homes. We have got --
many of them have RV garages, which creates even more challenges as you would
navigate the street with that kind of traffic going in and out. So, I just respectfully ask you
and encourage you to consider protecting our residential areas of the city and I support
the permanent closure of North Dashwood Place and thank you.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Borton- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just -- just one compliment that in -- we have got your -- what you submitted to
us March 18th.
Garey: Yes.
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Borton: And you resubmitted it April 16th. So, thank you for doing that, submitting those
remarks twice. I think if I look and track the sequence of events, the submission with
regards to Dashwood to ACHID, your letter -- your letter raised a concern, but the
submission to ACHD by the prior applicant with that different design had Dashwood as
opened. Then later on Mr. Clark got involved and it sounds like in his remarks today --
and your letter references that there was a desire at least on his part to make that
temporary -- or, excuse me, make that emergency access only, but ACHID, then, is the
next step, refused to allow it to be anything but temporary. So, it seemed that that
sequence of events was important. It wasn't -- I didn't see it as this applicant having met
with -- with Alpine and -- and committing to emergency access only and, then, doing
something different after that fact. So, I'm just clarify the chronology, at least what the
record seems to show.
Garey: Okay. I'm not sure that I'm totally understanding you on what your point is -- is
that, yes, it has progressed in a very different manner. It was as open and, then, it was
-- with this new owners and Mr. Clark as the representative had -- as we have all listened
to tonight -- had attempted to get that as a permanent closure. ACHD made it as
temporary. It could be open in two years, could be less, depending on Centrepoint and
no more than ten years. So, we are still needing with the explanations that you have seen
earlier today with the amount of space that we have to work with and the amount of traffic,
it's a dangerous situation. We would like to see it closed permanently.
Borton: Okay. I -- and I -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: The question was confusing. I just -- I read the letters thinking that maybe there
was a belief that the applicant -- this current applicant, after meeting with you, then, went
to ACHD and asked for it to be the 50 foot wide open street, which -- which wasn't the
sequence of events. So, perhaps I just got myself confused from your -- from the letter.
So, thanks for clarifying that.
Garey: Well, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I intended to be clear on that.
Borton: My fault.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I just want to share some good news with Sherry. She just had a lengthy
conversation with an attorney and there are no billable hours involved. So, you did well,
Sherry.
Garey: That's always a good day.
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Simison: All right. Any further questions? Thank you, Sherry.
Garey: Thank you.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, next we have Rand Spiwak.
Simison: Okay.
Spiwak: Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council Persons. I'm not a homeowner in that
area, but I am the --the lateral manager, ditch rider, for the Parkins-Nourse No. 14 Lateral.
It serves about 600 properties all the way from Eagle Road next to the Tree City Church,
our headgate, all the way to Meridian Road.
Simison: Rand, if you could just state your name and address so we have it.
Spiwak: Oh, yes. Randy Spiwak. 1458 East Loyalty Street, Meridian. And it's in the
Heritage Commons Subdivision off of Locust Grove. I volunteered three years ago to
take on the management of the lateral and gather up as much information as I could. The
gentleman -- it was an elderly gentleman that had done this and there were very few
records and when I received a phone call from Hethe Clark about the property, one of the
concerns I had is that there are no current survey drawings of where that 12 inch gravity
flow irrigation pipe is that runs parallel to the north boundary of the property line between
Alpine Pointe and Delano Subdivision. It clearly -- we have found that it runs -- the 15
foot easement and the pipe runs under many of the backyards in Alpine Pointe, much to
the chagrin of some of those property owners who didn't know that, but at some point it
-- it moves to the south and crosses over that property -- that line and whether that's in
part of the Delano Subdivision or not we don't know. That's why I have -- the letter you
see here, one of the conditions we are asking before we sign off is that we -- is the
developer do a utility survey, so we know for sure where that underground pipe is. Idaho
law requires that the owner of the property is responsible to maintain and repair or replace
the lateral if it should have a problem. Used to be an open ditch many years ago all the
way from Eagle Road to Meridian. So, I did meet with the engineer, with the developer,
and we talked through that. They did not disagree. They said that that needed to be
done. On the end of Dashwood, though, I went down there initially and looked and saw
that there were -- appeared to be no access points. They are concrete vaults with -- with
manholes on either side of the street, so that one can visually go down that or climb down
that to see where the water flows under the road, because you have vehicles driving over
that -- that pipeline. I later talked to Frank Marcos and he was over there tapping around
with a shovel and he did find one that is on the south side. On the north side all I could
find was a cutoff valve that I really think is Alpine Pointe's. So, whether that -- that was
ever considered to be a through street or not I don't know. Normally ACHD would never
have approved it, since they are responsible for it if it wasn't built correctly, so that's
something that's in my letter that has to be corrected and I would like to get a copy of the
plat once that survey is done, so that at least as the ditch rider I have an idea whose
property the easement is located, the additional ten feet of easement that Delano is
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proposing. We appreciate that. That will give us 25 feet to play with if that piping has to
be moved or access to it if there is a problem.
Simison: Rand, if you can conclude your comments, please.
Spiwak: And that's really all I wanted to say, is I wanted to make sure that my letter was
part of the public record.
Simison: Perfect.
Spiwak: Thank you very much.
Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, no question for Rand, just a comment. Thank you for showing up
and taking the time. You know, Meridian used to be an agricultural community and -- and
ditch riders were a common term and people know what it was and I appreciate that you
volunteer and still maintain our waterways and -- and it's very important, although it
doesn't receive quite the attention that it used to, appreciate your service.
Spiwak: I enjoy doing it and all my neighbors who volunteer enjoy it, too. It's kind of a
social thing.
Hoaglun: As long as you distance appropriately right now.
Spiwak: That's right.
Simison: Council, any further questions? Okay. Council, I'm going to ask we take a quick
recess for about ten minutes to give people an opportunity to step away. I checked in,
we had at least five more people who are signed up, so take a quick break and, then, we
will come up and resume testimony. Try to be back by 8-05. So, with that we are in
recess.
(Recess: 7:56 p.m. to 8:06 p.m.)
Simison: Okay. Council, I'm going to go ahead and call us back into the session.
Adrienne, if you can let us know who is up next.
Weatherly- Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Though there are several people that have signed in
for the meeting, only one additional has indicated a wish to testify and his name is Thomas
Hunt.
Simison- Mr. Hunt, when you come in if you can state your name and address for the
record, please.
Johnson: Mr. Hunt is unmuted.
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Simison: Mr. Hunt, are you there for us? Okay. While we wait for Mr. Hunt to come back
-- oh, looks like he's connecting. Adrienne, did we not have anybody else raise their hand
or have you -- we do have one attendee with a hand raised.
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, I will go ahead and let-- I will defer to Chris on that. My capabilities
to see hand raised are limited. So, I will let him take over from here.
Simison: Okay.
Johnson: You did have a hand raised. They were titled administrator and I have brought
them into the meeting, so they can speak.
Simison: Okay. Administrator, if you can unmute yourself and state your name and
address for the record.
Pitzer: Is that me?
Simison: Yes, it is.
Pitzer: Oh. Thank you. So, this is Patty Pitzer and I am speaking on behalf-- as a citizen
of Meridian and an adjoining property owner and not as a commissioner.
Simison: Patty, if you could state your address for the record.
Pitzer: Yes. 2703 East Wainwright Drive in Meridian. And what I would like to say is that
the northern boundary was only reduced by two lots and I do not believe that that was the
intent from November of 2019 when they asked Mr. Conger to re-look at that northern
boundary. He reduced the entire subdivision by 20 lots, but because of the interior, but
not the northern boundary, which is what Councilman Bernt and Cavener requested was
look at the northern boundary. Marge and Bill Schumacher has the largest boundary
there and instead of looking at six houses they are looking at five houses. So, I would
like them to -- I think the southern boundary and the middle was fine, but I agree with
Councilman Cavener that the northern boundary needed to be adjusted and I do not think
that was done and I would like the Council to look at that and maybe ask that they re-look
at that northern boundary as Mr. Conger stated that he would have them to be similar to
our adjoining lots and our adjoining lots are about 14,000 square feet and the lots that
they are proposing is only 5,500 square feet and I do not see them as similar. And I stand
for any questions.
Simison: Okay. Thank you, Patty. Council, any questions?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Yeah. Just -- I mean how many -- what kind of a reduction in lots would you
consider to be a fair outcome that -- that you would be happy with? You don't think he
went far enough, but I guess I'm just curious as to your opinion of -- if you have one of
what an appropriate compromise is for that northern boundary.
Pitzer: Well, when he first proposed 12 lots we thought that even half would be
appropriate. So, maybe six.
Strader: Thanks.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: The way that those lots are designed and -- and set against the boundary is
very unique because of their shape and I think it would be really hard to -- even at six I
think it would be -- it would be difficult to accomplish the Comprehensive Plan use and
still make that transition. So, if there are any suggestions by staff or any of the public as
to how that would be modified to work between the comp plan designation and bumping
up against these lots where they have very wide boundaries against the --the --you know,
to the south against Delano Subdivision, I -- I'm open to those suggestions, because I
have looked at it and -- and can't quite figure it out myself. I mean I definitely think that
we -- that -- that the transition needs to be softened and taking out two lots may not have
accomplished exactly what Councilman Bernt and Borton had suggested in the last
hearing, but if we can have a discussion at some point about what that would look like or
additional recommendations from the public I'm willing to listen to those and I would like
to hear the applicant's thought on that at the end of the process as well.
Pitzer- Thank -- thank you, Council Woman Perreault. And we have submitted several
-- and I would say -- by several I mean at least four alternative plans that would soften
that and that could work for this subdivision. They have not been met by the applicant.
They pretty much recycled a January 2019 plan that they had and I would welcome the
Council to look -- you know, revisit looking at these revised plans.
Simison- Council, any further questions? Okay. Thank you.
Pitzer- Thank you.
Simison- Adrienne, do you have anybody else who has signed up or would like to testify
to your ability to determine? Or Chris?
Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, no one additional has signed up and so far we do not see any
hands raised in the attendees list.
Johnson- Mr. Mayor, however, I do have Mr. Hunt back in the room and he is unmuted.
We can see if we can hear him this time.
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Simison: Okay. Mr. Hunt, are you there? Mr. Hunt, we are unable to hear you if you are
speaking. Chris, do you want to try to go in and provide Mr. Hunt -- or if Mr. Hunt can
hear us, just a phone number to call in.
Johnson: I can do that, Mr. Mayor. I will put something on the screen.
Simison: Council, as we wait for Mr. Hunt to call in and potentially before we get to the
applicant for any final wrap up, are there questions that you would like to direct towards
staff at this point in time?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Hoaglun: Councilman Hoaglun.
Simison: Oh. Sorry.
Hoaglun: Yeah. The -- the less -- less likely to win any awards won, you know. If Sonya
or whoever is running that,Adrienne or-- if we could go to --to Council Woman Perreault's
comment about that northern boundary, I was looking at that earlier as well and there --
there are some unique -- unique residences along there and a lot of them are -- are
sideways to the back of this subdivision -- proposed project. So, it wasn't like they were
back to back and we have had those issues before where people are looking into each
other's back yard. So, that -- that is kind of a quandary there how to -- how to fix that,
because those are unique properties and -- and the way they were turned and different
things -- yeah, I was looking at that as well and that -- and maybe -- maybe later on if the
applicant can -- can speak to that we can -- we can take a look at it from -- from one of
the satellite views that show--shows the houses. So, it is a -- it is an interesting challenge
there.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Along with that, just kind of chewing things up, I see that -- that Justin Lucas is
in the participant section. If he is available -- I do have a couple of questions about the
design of that cul-de-sac and delineating not for future construction versus, you know,
designed to go through future construction. We received a lot of testimony tonight about,
you know, roadway designations that determined if it -- that roadway is supposed to
terminate or if it connects through and his expertise and maybe some of the thought
process behind the commission -- around some of the transportation issues that we have
-- we have heard from tonight would be helpful.
Simison- Okay. As I don't see Mr. Hunt back in -- there he is. He just popped back in.
Let's see if we can get him. If not we can maybe go to -- Mr. Hunter, are you there?
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Hunt: Yeah. I apologize for holding -- holding you all up.
Simison: No problem. If you can just state your name and address for the record and,
then, you have got three minutes.
Hunt: My name is Thomas Hunt. I live at 2448 East Honeywood in -- Honeywood Court
in Alpine Pointe. I did not actually prepare a formal testimony. I'm not sure -- I probably
clicked on the wrong button, but very briefly I just want to vocalize additional support for
the permanent closure of Dashwood and one comment that I haven't heard, but I think is
worth hearing is there have been times where there has been road construction on either
McMillan or Eagle and we have had additional traffic through Alpine Pointe that I think
opening Dashwood would -- would do virtually the same thing and because our streets
are a little bit wider in the subdivision there have been times where nonresidents really
exceed the speed limit very quickly. It's easy to go fast through our neighborhood and
while it's been discussed that there are a lot of elderly or older people, there are several
families, myself being one of them, with young children and there are a lot of kids that do
frequent the neighborhood. So, I just wanted to -- to localize that additional concern as a
parent to having those wider streets and the increased speeds through our neighborhood.
So, we are hopeful that you guys will permanently close Dashwood.
Simison: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hunt. Council, any questions?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault- So, question for staff or perhaps for Bill about how that works with a public
street. So, what is our obligation to keep that street public and allow it to be used by the
public if it's closed and does -- are we going to -- if we agree to close it does -- does the
neighborhood or does Delano have to apply to have that vacated to keep it private? So,
I would like to hear your thoughts on that.
Nary- Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, you know, I think probably the process for
ACHD would be really relevant for that question. Yes, I mean, again, you have a couple
different options in front of you proposed tonight between having it open and having an
emergency access only or having it completely closed. ACHD is the road authority, so,
ultimately, they have the road authority, you have the land use authority, so if you don't
want that road to be open you have the land use ability to create a plat that would not
allow access to that parcel, but you can also allow it forjust the emergency access, which
has been proposed as well. But on the vacating of the street question that's probably
better for Mr. Lucas.
Simison- Anyway questions for Mr. Hunt? Okay. Thank you. Well, with that maybe we
can just turn to Mr. Lucas and I see that you have four people that you -- five people you
have convinced to get into a nice picture with you.
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Lucas: Yeah. Mr. -- Mr. Mayor, can you hear me?
Simison: We can.
Lucas: Excellent. For the record my name is Justin Lucas. Obviously, I have people
surrounding me. They are a lot better looking than me, which is good, and so my business
address is 3775 Adam Street, Garden City, Idaho, and I'm here tonight representing the
Ada County Highway District. I think there were a few questions thrown out there. I'm
glad to start with the question from your legal counsel Mr. Nary. I don't think that there
would be a requirement by ACHD to vacate Dash -- the existing section of Dashwood
Place. If you look at how that street is constructed, it currently operates, you know, as a
dead end street with a turnaround. It certainly -- it was meant to be extended in the future
the way it was designed. I'm not going to go into the whole history of the barricades and
the signs and all that. I think that's been spoken to by the members of the -- of the public.
But if -- if the city so chooses to -- to not extend that street or only extend it as an
emergency access, that's at the city's purview and, to be honest, I'm not even sure what
further action ACHD would have to take or if there would be a further action required.
This is one of those unique situations where the city conditions may be in conflict with
ACHD's condition and I would have to let the legal counsel for the applicant, you know,
kind of determine how they would want to proceed from there. So, I hope that answers
the -- the initial question. I will pause right here and see if there is any further clarification
needed.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Is there a preferred -- I'm trying to think of an elegant way of putting this, but I'm
not going to come up with one. Is there a preferred method by which City Council could
close Dashwood except for emergency access that gets us to the right place where we
don't have wrangling back and forth with ACHID and a bunch of headaches, whether that's
called vacating it or what you call -- orjust saying, hey, we are not allowing it. If you could
be -- is there a method we need to use for that that would have a better outcome?
Lucas- Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, I wish I could provide clarity on that point. I
really -- I really can't. All I can do is state the intention of the ACHD commission, which is
clearly outlined in the staff report provided and the follow up, you know, communication
from ACHD staff. At this public hearing tonight I'm not able to negotiate on behalf of
ACHD. That's not my role. I'm just here to provide clarifying information and facts where
possible and in this specific instance the ACHD commission has, you know, acted on this
application. There is a staff report. Staff has worked with these modifications that we feel
are consistent with the -- the policies of ACHD. ACHID, much like the City of Meridian,
has a policy that stub streets need to be extended. We did analyze the property, we
looked at many of the issues brought up, and, ultimately, we are comfortable with the
recommendation from the commission and, then, the further clarification made by staff. I
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know that's not a -- that's probably a very -- kind of a roundabout way to answer your
question, but that's probably the best I can do tonight.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: That's fine. I understand the spot that you are in and I -- I get it and I -- you
know, I --we are always looking for connectivity as well and I'm sure we will have a chance
to deliberate a little bit about this tonight, but it just strikes me that, you know, I'm looking
at a neighborhood that's highly connected already and feels like there is -- sometimes
exceptions are warranted. So, thanks for the insight and we did receive the staff report.
So, thanks.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Justin, earlier tonight we heard testimony about kind of the City of Meridian's
street naming policy and I know I live -- I live on a -- on a cul-de-sac and my address is
court and the testimony we heard was that, you know, I think roadways that end in court
or place are designed to be terminated and I just don't know if that mirrors ACHID's policy
and and, Justin, I will kind of cut to where I'm -- where I'm at. I'm trying to wrestle with
the the -- what looks to be the design of a cul-de-sac, which to me seems to insinuate
connectivity, with the testimony that we heard from the public that says, you know, this
has always been identified as a as a roadway that wouldn't connect. I'm trying to
understand what -- what is -- what what's likely? What -- what was the intention behind
the design or what was the intention behind the roadway name?
Lucas: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Cavener, you know, I think the story told tonight is what
-- kind of what happened, which is the original preliminary plat for this -- the Alpine Pointe
Subdivision had a layout that was approved by ACHID that did not show that -- that stub
street connection, but that original preliminary plat was, then, acted on finally by the city.
The city always is the final action. And at that time the city required that stub street to be
extended, which didn't conflict with any ACHID policy. If the city says we want the stub
street at the final plat ACHID said, okay, we will allow the stub street and the -- the cul-de-
sac or the -- the reason why it's round like that is because it's probably long enough to
require a turnaround. So, if we have a street of that length, even though it is going to be
extended in the future, we do require some kind of turnaround, which is why it was in that
cul-de-sac configuration and I think there was even several pictures of similar scenarios
all across Meridian that were shown tonight, so -- and, then, when we get into the signage
and the barricades and the fence or no fence, you know, that's -- those are details that
happened through the development process. Was there a sign there? Maybe at some
point, yes. Maybe no. I don't know. The barricade certainly is there and -- and the little
blue sign that we require, could it have fallen off, could it have been taken down, I don't
know. I don't know the answer to that question.
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Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Justin, thanks. I think that comment specifically about the turnaround for the
fire truck seems to make a lot of sense and that at least helps me with my understanding.
I appreciate it. Appreciate you being with us tonight.
Simison: Council, any further questions for Mr. Lucas while he is here? Okay. Thank
you, Justin. I assume you won't go anywhere in case we need you again.
Lucas: Yes. Mr. Mayor, thank you very much. I will hang on the line. I will certainly mute
myself, but I will stay here for the duration to make -- just to see if you have any further
questions.
Simison: Okay.
Bongiorno: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Deputy Chief.
Bongiorno: We have been --we have been dancing around the fire code all night tonight,
so I'm going to take this opportunity to jump in, since Justin and Councilman Cavener
brought up the word firetruck. Thank you very much for that. So, as this map is presented
we have to have secondary access. So, whatever Council decides, you know, you can
permanently close that road, but I have to have an emergency access point as presented
with this drawing. If they drop to 30 lots total, then, they can have one way in and one
way out. So,just wanted to make sure that was clear and -- and I appreciate everybody's
testimony tonight. It was -- it was -- it's been great listening to all this.
Simison: Thank you. Mr. Stewart, since you have unmuted yourself and given us your
visual, I assume you, too, would like to make a comment.
Stewart: Yeah. I was just going to make a quick comment. There is -- excuse me. There
are existing utilities in the roadway that we are talking about, Dashwood there, and we
will require that the waterline in particular, but also sewer comes from the north to serve
a portion of this development I do believe, but the waterline has to be looped. We need
the fire protection. We can't get fire protection without the looping of that water and it will
also improve water quality in that area as well. Does that have to be in a public right of
way? No, it does not necessarily have to be in the public right of way, but I did want to at
least make sure that you are aware that the utilities through that corridor need to continue.
Simison- Any questions for Mr. Stewart from Council? Okay. Thank you very much.
Adrienne, I assume we did not -- or, Chris, we didn't have anyone else raise their hand to
speak?
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Weatherly: Mr. Mayor, that is correct.
Simison: Okay. Then I'm going to go ahead and invite the applicant back up for his
closing remarks.
Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Hethe Clark. 251 East Front Street in Boise. Chris, can I
have my backup slides, please. Maybe? Maybe?
Johnson: I was just trying to get the button to share.
Clark: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, before Mr. Clark starts I know Councilman Cavener had asked Mrs.
Bernard to stay on the line in case there was any additional questions for the HOA after
the testimony and I thought if you wanted to do that that probably would be more
appropriate before Mr. Clark does his final summary, but I don't know if you had any other
questions, I just remembered he had brought that up.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener- Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Mr. Nary. No. I appreciate you bringing that up. I
did have a couple of questions, but they eventually got addressed in -- in future testimony.
So I appreciate that. We are good.
Clark- Thanks, Chris. Again, Hethe Clark for the record. And it looks like my video is
turned off. I don't know if you want to see my beautiful face or not, but I'm good either
way. So, I was involved in a hearing a couple weeks ago and Council Member Strader
put me through my paces on the question of schools and I vowed to myself that I would
never be caught -- or never have -- be unprepared with some of the information that she
wanted and if I can get to this slide -- there we go. So, we have looked up and had
conversations with the school district about current enrollment and the status of
enrollment. The this -- these are the most current numbers from fall of last year. You
can see that the there it -- does still remain capacity within the school district, but what
I want to point out is that by fall of '20 there will be an additional -- call it 3,500 spaces
available within the district. In addition, I would just point out that the -- on the question
of middle schools, Star Middle is very much under capacity. Victory Middle has capacity.
Meridian Middle has capacity, you know, varying levels. So, there is going to be -- you
know, Meridian is a growing city. There is going to be need for continued growth in the
school district. That's just going to be a fact of life for as long as we are all involved in
this, but that capacity is there. But the other piece I want to point out -- Mr. Clifford had
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presented an April letter from the West Ada School District. If you review the record, West
Ada submitted another letter in November of 2019. That letter stated that their only
concern was to ensure that this project came online after Owyhee High School was
available and, obviously, given the delay in this that is more than handled. Next item that
I would point to is this question of transition on the north and I think that this slide might
help with Council Member Hoaglun's point. We have increased the size of these lots by
50 percent. We have tried to transition from the very dense product that's to our south to
this product to the Alpine Pointe product on the north, but as Council Member Perreault
mentioned, these are difficult lots to match. They are pie shaped lots to a certain degree
and what I also wanted to show is what faces our project. So, this was a slide that was
done with the -- with the prior iteration and I had the current plat put on to, you know, kind
of show what we are dealing with, but as you go along what you can see is A corresponds
to what the side of that house looks like. That's the -- it's looking at the side of a garage
and a pad. B is looking at the side of a -- it looks like an RV pad. C similar. D also similar.
So, you know, again, it's -- it's always difficult to transition these things on an in-fill project
such as this, but we think that we have done, you know, an appropriate job here. It's not
a reduction of two as -- as was suggested and, in fact, there were a number of duplexes
that were there as well. So, again, we think that we have -- we have -- we have come up
with an appropriate compromise that's -- that is very close to the 6,000 square feet that
we discussed at the initial meeting with the board. Chris, can I have now the main slide
deck. Sorry to make this complicated. Thank you. So, when it comes to this -- waiting
for the system to come up for me. Sorry about that. Okay. There we go. I think we got
itnow. Okay. Sorry for the technical difficulties there. So, the next thing that I wanted to
discuss were the trees and the slide I wanted to bring up is the one that shows the
transition from our product -- project to the Brickyard project on the south, because I think
that that helps kind of explain what -- where we were coming from on the design and how
I think it addresses the -- the issues that have been identified. So, we are -- as you can
see this is -- this is the part of our project on the southwest that abuts Champion Park and
we purposefully kept -- put our little park area here with the public art installation in that
location, so that that would be the buffer against Champion Park to the extent that we
could create one. The the trees in that location are topped. You know, they are not
great trees, but we are we are intending to keep as many of them as we can in that
location. I expect that there will be some additional trees added. So, as you can see we
think that we have addressed that -- that issue in terms of trying to create a buffer for
those folks. With regard to Council Member Borton's question about, you know, why have
lots there on the south now versus the continuation of Jasmine along the south and that
creating a buffer, you know, a couple of things there. We -- in -- in going to this alternative
design we reduced the density throughout the center of the project and on the north of
the project. The -- that-- we went with a larger park and consolidate -- consolidated open
spaces and so from that perspective that made more sense at that point to put our most
dense product up against the Brickyard. That is two story potentially product down there
and we think that that creates an appropriate transition between the Brickyard and our
product -- in our project. So, that was the -- that was the thought process and so that's
where we were coming from in getting to there. One -- you know, just to kind of wrap up,
I will leave you with -- sorry. A little bit of lag here. I will leave you with the modifications
to the conditions of approval as we have requested them. Along the west, again, because
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we no longer have duplex products along the west and because of our reduced density,
we are asking for the restriction on single story to be removed and, then, again, with
regard to Dashwood, this has been a unique experience for me. As -- you know, some of
you have seen me doing these hearings for a long time. I'm usually the -- kind of the
closer, you know, kind of come and help get ready for the hearing. In this case I pretended
to be a planner for the last few months and tried to make sure that we were addressing
people's concerns. I'm a happy boy if we get emergency only access along Dashwood.
We need to have emergency only to be able to satisfy Deputy Chief Bongiorno's point,
but if we have emergency only, then -- then I'm -- I'm satisfied and that's what we have
asked for to date. From there, you know, in terms of the -- the question of where does
land use authority end and exclusive jurisdiction over the highways begins, that's why I
have suggested to remove the language stating that the City of Meridian is requiring this
to be temporary and, then, therefore, then, it becomes just a question of, you know, what
is ACHD going to require in terms of its exclusive jurisdiction over roads and, then, that
opens it up to just a conversation with one government -- governmental body, rather than
having to deal with both, which is the -- kind of the difficult part of the way that land use
plays out in -- in Ada county. So, with that I'm happy to answer any questions that remain
at this point.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Mr. Clark, I would like to congratulate you and commend you on providing me
with this capacity information that I have been asking for. I really appreciate you doing
that legwork and I would ask the city clerk to provide me with a copy of this presentation,
if possible, because I could use that as a starting point for some additional analysis that I
was asking for. But I just wanted to say thank you very much for listening to my concern
about the schools and providing that information.
Simison- Council, any further questions?
Hoaglun- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Question for Mr. Clark. On that southwest corner for Champion Park with those
trees, from Mrs. Crane's perspective those -- those trees look pretty good. Maybe it's
because they make the turn and they are not necessarily -- I don't know if they were
topped, because the lines -- and maybe they were, but the photo she showed from her
backyard it looked like those were adequate for a nice buffer from --for that triangle piece.
You are going to have art in there. I know it would be nice. But they are looking for
privacy is -- and you know that property better than I do. I just see from photos and your
drawings. Is that something -- those trees there could be left to -- to maintain that buffer
for those homes in Champion Park?
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Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, yes. So, the -- those -- those trees are
topped there. I think that Mrs. Crane's photographs also showed the power line in that
location. So, they have been previously topped, but we -- you know, it -- from every
perspective it makes sense for us to keep those trees to the extent that they are not
diseased. You know, we save money, all of that. So, yes, those trees will remain in that
triangle -- triangular park area that we are showing here. And, then, we will take a look
at the rest of the trees on a case-by-case basis to see if any of them could be relocated
or re-used.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, just to comment further on that.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. And, Hethe, I -- I was referring just to those pine trees there in that
triangular area. I see the need for your -- what you are doing there to the -- to the south
for putting new trees in and -- up against the Brickyard, so that makes sense. But for that
triangle area it made sense to probably keep -- keep those if possible.
Simison: Council, any further questions?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, a question for Mr. Clark, but I -- I know you probably won't have an
answer for me, but I want to -- I want to get a sense of Centrepoint -- that Centrepoint
Way, which -- which to me makes sense to be the collector for going to Wainwright. You
have residents to the west, they will have commercial to the -- to the east, but the
ownership of that property -- I mean that's contingent upon future development it appears
to me. Can you give me any insight, if you have any, you may not, on what that future
may hold for -- for development going to that north -- north way.
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, so you are correct, the Centrepoint will be
the -- the spine for the transportation along that area. Unfortunately, I don't have any
insight in terms -- in terms of the timing for that, because it's -- that property is owned by
a -- by a third party. It is part of the -- the master street map that it -- that it will ultimately
connect and I also agree with your approach in terms of describing the way that that
development should proceed, which, you know, with the residential on the west side of
Centrepoint, Centrepoint forming a buffer, and, then, allowing the type of mixed use
regional uses that would be permitted over there, because that is what the comprehensive
planning is for that parcel.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, a follow-up question.
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Simison: Mr. Clark, you did say that collector there would be -- is in the -- the master
street plan?
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Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Hoaglun, yes, that is -- that's shown on the master
street map.
Hoaglun: Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Clark, I noticed there also was some landscaping removed from the east
side of Centrepoint from the original rendering. Can you speak to that as well, please?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, so the -- this really goes back to the
question of what further entitlements are required for the property on the east, which is
the -- the R-40 multi -- likely multi-family property. When -- when we were at Planning
and Zoning one of the questions was what would be the timing of putting in streetscape,
you know, what -- which phase would that occur and we discussed that with -- with
Planning and Zoning and they agreed that that should go in with the rest of the project as
we didn't want to have throw away and what I'm -- the reason I'm just giving you that
context is that we do have a condition of approval that requires that we do an independent
landscape plan and identify specific open space when that CUP comes in. So, there will
be additional landscaping done on the R-40 piece. That's just going to be part of the CUP
process that will come later through -- through the course of this project.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, a follow up?
Simison- Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault- So, if I understand correctly, you just removed it from the rendering to reflect
the request to not finish out the landscaping and the sidewalks on that east side as part
of this application?
Clark- Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, it was -- I don't know if it was that purposeful,
but that reflects how this will develop. Correct.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: So, I don't know if this is the right time to even mention this, but I will anyway.
On the next phase that we are not approving tonight, I just thought I would point out,
based upon the things I learned tonight about, you know, connectivity, ACHID issues with
driveways, I might suggest to the applicant that you swap building A more to the north
and the clubhouse down to the south, so it will line up the exit point from the -- from that
parcel onto the other street. I don't know if that's relevant to policies or not, because it's
not a street, but that would seem to make more sense than having an offset the way it is,
but --
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Clark: Mr. Mayor, thank you. We will -- I or whoever is running that application at that
point will -- we will make a note of -- of that comment.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I'm wondering -- I know you will come forward with more definitive plans for the
apartment piece of the development, but what are -- what are you envisioning in terms of
open space and I had seen some suggestions that, you know, we require independent
open space, obviously, for the apartments as well. Do you want to comment on that?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Strader, so I think that Sonya discussed this to a certain
degree during her presentation. As I recall, the -- the requirement for the R-40 is that
there would have to be an independent ten percent provided there. You know, obviously,
that's dependent on the rules that are in place at the time of the application, but I believe
Sonya included a condition that would point us in that direction regardless, so --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Clark, are you able to speak to a request that was made by one of the
neighbors about Lots 16 and 17? 1 think it was the same conversation regarding leaving
those trees in that triangular open space area, to keep those at a single level height. I
know we -- I think we actually had this conversation last time you were here about a single
level -- keeping single level of particular lots. Can you share your thoughts with us on
that?
Clark: Yeah. Council -- Mr. Mayor, Council Member Perreault, you know, I just brought
up this slide to be able to illustrate what we are talking about here. These -- these lots
are largely up against the Brickyard, which is three stories, and so I -- you know, we are
preserving that -- you know, the -- creating the buffer against Champion Park with the
triangle. I don't think that putting single story up against the three story barracks really
moves the ball forward for anyone in this instance and so I -- that's not -- I don't think
that's something that I would be -- that I would be interested in agreeing to at this point.
Those are -- those are only two stories that we are talking about up against the three
stories at the Brickyard. Oh. And I would also point out, Council Member Perreault, that
the -- the adjacent homes are two stories as well. So, in Champion Park they are two
story buildings.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
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Borton: Hethe, on your -- your reference to proposed condition 1-F that speaks to
Dashwood, what would happen if the city includes a condition 1-F that does state that
Dashwood is provided as emergency access only permanently, not temporarily. If that is
how condition 1.F reads or if it were to read that way, the ACHID staff report -- that prior
design has -- it doesn't have anything in reference to Dashwood. It references that
specific temporary access down at Jasmine. Truly a different animal back then and the
-- the outreach that we see in the record that you did with Mr. Miller at ACHID was not a
commission decision, but it was -- I'm quite sure not exactly where it came from, but it
looked like what the commission had conditioned to be a Jasmine emergency access
only, sort of flipped in the same principle with the ten year or Centrepoint becoming now
a Dashwood condition. So, in light of that, the ACHID staff report and conditions as they
exist today and if the city were to do 1-F as I suggested, is there any -- in your eyes is
there a legal prohibition to the city doing it if ACHID refused to sign your final plat or
something like that?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, that is the -- that is the difficulty and why I
mentioned the kind of unclear line between where land use authority ends and the
exclusive jurisdiction over the highways begins. My suggestion of removing the language
on the -- referring to temporary on the city's decision is to allow that conversation to
continue, if necessary, with ACHID and not require a modification of this condition at the
city. That --
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton- So -- and, Hethe, I just -- sorry to interrupt, but that -- that concept of -- are you
suggesting removal of 1.F in its entirety?
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, no. My-- my-- my suggestion is just to remove
the temporary -- so, the way I read condition 1.F is that it's directing that it would be
temporary and rather than directing that it be temporary, take that language out, directing
that it -- not requiring that it be temporary, so that if it went to permanent we didn't have
to change the condition that the city has, but that will -- and, then, that would allow folks
to, then, go have a conversation with ACHID later on as the time comes and as other --
other roads are coming in and being connected and, then, maybe that's an opportunity
for the larger neighborhood as a whole to have that conversation with ACHID without
having to change a decision that the city made years ago. If that makes sense.
Borton: Mr. Mayor, follow up.
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: So, if that change was done in 1.F and that would remove the temporary, it would
remove the portion as drafted now that has this Centrepoint connection or ten years,
whichever comes first, all of that would come out.
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Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, yes, that's how I -- how I -- that -- that's my
suggestion.
Borton: But quick follow up. And, Hethe, the question at that point is there any risk to
you that if that is done and the city approves it in that fashion, that ACHID can hold you up
in any form? And the example was refusing to sign the final plat.
Clark: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Borton, you know, our -- we are looking at this from
the perspective of this is -- allows us to move forward and best addresses the
neighborhood --the neighborhood concerns. You know, obviously, I don't want to be held
up at ACHID over this condition. I don't want them to refuse to sign the plat. My -- the
way I see it is that these would be overlapping requirements where the -- where the city
has made a requirement, the -- ACHID has made a requirement, they may not be in
agreement. ACHD after ten years might say, you know what, this -- this -- we said that
this was temporary and so, you know, we are going to go ahead and open this and they
would do that under their exclusive jurisdiction over the -- over the highways. I don't think
that this requires a hold up at the plat -- at the plat level if you guys have different
viewpoints on this -- on this particular point.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun. Or, I'm sorry, Councilman Borton.
Nary: So, I -- I want to add something, Mr. Mayor.
Simison: Okay. Well, let's go to you, Bill, and, then to Council Woman Strader.
Nary: Okay. So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, I think Mr.
Clark's suggestion avoids any conflict with ACHID, because it's basically the city is silent
on the length of this condition and, therefore, they would be less likely to not want to sign
the plat. If there is a condition in there that they either think is in conflict with them or they
think it should be something different -- here it's silent, so I think that would be the safest
route. The reality is it's been there for 15 years with nobody wanting to open it. The
emergency access is really a safety issue and once this is constructed it's even less likely
to want to be made a full connection. So, I think taking the suggestion of Mr. Clark and
taking that language out and simply just stating that it would be emergency access only,
I think gives the neighbors or the developer a better opportunity to say this should be the
permanent solution.
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
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Strader: Thank you. I think this might be a question for Mr. Nary. I guess my concern
would be -- part of why I would feel comfortable approving this application is with the
caveat that it would be permanently emergency access only. I don't think it is an
appropriate street to open up and if we remove that condition don't we run the risk of
having that outcome thatACHD will open it. We had no condition, so the applicant doesn't
have to come back with a revised proposal. Don't we run the risk that we get an outcome
that we didn't want?
Nary: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Strader, so I think what -- all
Hethe is suggesting is that the condition simply say the city's condition is that this be an
emergency access only and we generally don't designate temporary or permanent in most
of these. Most of the time they are what they are and whether or not they become a street
or something really isn't the issue as it is tonight, but just designating it as an emergency
access only makes clear the city's intention is that is only -- the only use you anticipate
that to be is emergency.
Strader: Follow up?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I just -- I want to make sure we are not -- I know we are still having kind of a
discussion about it. I want to make sure we are not opening ourselves up ultimately to
an outcome that at least I'm not looking for. I guess is there anything legally that prohibits
us from designating something permanent or is there another method by which we could
ensure that ACHD doesn't kind of come back and -- and upset the apple cart.
Nary- So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Woman Strader, no guarantees.
I can't really give you that. My concern would be I think similar to what Mr. Clark has
stated, that if we designate that based on our preference of it being permanent versus
temporary and ACHD thinks that's in conflict with their staff opinion, they may not sign the
plat. So, we may be back here doing the same thing. So, by leaving it silent and saying
emergency access only, clearly, again, the city's not giving an alternative, so it's only
emergency access and that's all and that's the normal course of how we designate these.
That won't be in conflict with ACHD and they will likely sign the plat. Again, they always
have the ability as the road authority to change their mind, change your policy. Like the
sign issue that was spoke of earlier, that's a policy change that occurred probably 15
years ago, but the -- we really don't have the ability to make it be permanent, since it is a
roadway. They can change their mind. But clearly we just don't want to be in conflict with
it. We want it to be clear your recommendation is this is an emergency access.
Hoaglun- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun- Yeah. To add -- add my two cents to this, what -- for Councilman Strader's
benefit, where I see the issue -- if we just go with the emergency only, not putting in the
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time frame, we are not boxing ACHD in, we are giving them the option or, to me, there is
a clear alternative with North Centrepoint Way. So, you know, for -- to get into this fight
and, well, we need something -- and it may be ten years from now Centrepoint Way is not
completed -- I don't believe that will be the case, but you never know, but we have an
option there that gets us a collector-- or an arterial to -- to Wainwright and -- and we leave
them with an option and I think that's -- that they are reasonable people, they can work
through this, the same issues that the neighborhood raised with us I think would resonate
-- resonate with them, but because there is this viable option that that is out there, I
think it's -- it's a safe option to go with and -- and not having to put creating a conflict
where we think we can avoid one. I don't know if that helps or not, but that's my thinking
on it.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. I think that's helpful. I -- it's not an ideal I think approach in the sense
that we may -- it's possible it sounds like ultimately we might get an outcome that we are
not looking for though. It's not likely, but it's possible and I -- I'm still kind of wrestling with
it. But, thank you, that did help.
Simison: So, Council, the public hearing is still open. Do you have any additional
comments or questions for the applicant or staff or would you like to close the public
hearing at this time?
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton: It does not sound like there is requests for additional information from staff, so I
will move that we close the public hearing on Item 7-B, H-2019-0027.
Hoaglun- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I will second.
Simison- Have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. Is there any discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay. The ayes
have it. The public hearing is closed. Sorry.
MOTION CARRIED- ALLAYES.
Bernt- Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I haven't spoke much.
Borton: You muted yourself.
Bernt: Can you hear me now? My computer's been acting weird tonight. It's weird. I
haven't said much tonight, I have been listening, and I remember this -- this -- this
application from November and, honestly, it's an interesting application. I appreciate the
dialogue this evening from both the applicant and also the residents. I always enjoy it
when -- when -- when people are concerned, they come out and they express their
opinions. It helps us out as a Council to come to a decision or conclusion and also I think
Hethe always does a great job. He's -- he's one of the professionals, so good job, Hethe.
One thing that it-- is during discussion that--that continues to pop in my mind is assuming
something might happen in the future or -- we don't have a crystal ball and we don't know
exactly what will happen in regard to connectivity, whether Dashwood is permanently
closed or if it's emergency access only, temporarily or permanently. We all know we have
an interesting situation with the stakeholder partners and how we deal with certain
decisions and that makes things really interesting, but it -- in these instances for me it
causes great concern, because I think sometimes when we assume that things might
happen or -- or what's been spoken about with -- or by residents about kicking this can
down the road, I think it causes more problems than --than -- than it solves. I -- I -- I pride
-- I -- I have a different perspective to a certain degree. I believe connectivity is always
important. There are many subdivisions in the valley where past councils have said, hey,
you know, we don't want to create more traffic into this subdivision, we are not going to
-- we are not going to recommend connectivity here, but later on we realize that -- that if
we had connectivity there it probably would have solved some problems. It would have
probably solved, you know, less traffic going in another place. So, basically, we are saying
to ourselves, you know, we feel for the folks over here in -- in Alpine Pointe, but we -- you
know, the folks over here that are -- that are renting units and living in units and have
kiddos in those units, we don't necessarily give those -- that connectivity as much
credence and to me it doesn't -- connectivity is connectivity and we need connectivity no
matter what. Which leads me to my next point. So, my next point is -- is the greatest
concern in this whole situation is what Council Member Borton brought up back in
November and if you were to go back, his -- his concern that I never thought of until --
he was the last person to speak at that Council meeting was that the connectivity from
Centrepoint to Wainwright solves all the problems. If we -- if we had connectivity from
Centrepoint to Wainwright, I -- whether -- whether Dashwood is temporary or -- or
permanent or whatever, really makes it somewhat of a moot point to me. All right?
Because most of the traffic will be flowing through that corridor and so although I believe
that this -- this project is great and I commend Hethe and his -- the new owners of this --
this -- of this property-- this project for --for making it less dense and listening to us, I just
think that in my opinion we are putting the cart before the horse. I just think that approving
this -- this -- this project this evening, for me, in my opinion, is just premature and it --
maybe it boils down to in-fill and how in-fill can get really tricky and I get that, but I want
to get it right and if you want to guarantee -- if we want to guarantee the Council that
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connectivity is going to be legal and there is not going to be any, you know, mud throwing
in the future between us and ACHD wondering who is right and who is wrong and who
has precedence and who doesn't, the only way to fix that is just to wait and to make sure
that there is connectivity from Centrepoint to Wainwright. You know, sometimes just got
to be patient -- and I apologize, I -- you know, I think this is a great project. I don't think it
can become any better honestly, you know. It's just that we need connectivity from
Centrepoint to Wainwright to solve all these problems and that's the only guarantee that
we have.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I so appreciate that comment, because now that I have heard your perspective
I -- I think it's a good point. Like I'm concerned about trying to put a condition on something
that might not even give us the outcome we are looking for, when the truth is that that --
the proper connectivity on Centrepoint is what gets us to the right answer. So, I appreciate
you sharing your perspective, Treg.
Bernt: I stole it from Borton. So, I appreciate Borton more than you appreciate me.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, I have the same situation. I live in a community that's off of -- a section of
Pine that does not connect between Black Cat and Ten Mile and our neighbors for years
have taken Pine out to Black Cat and exited one way in and out of a very large community
and I don't see any issue with the residents of a future Delano Subdivision exiting on
Centrepoint to the south out to Ustick up until the time that Centrepoint is connected to
Wainwright. They can do that. That's essentially going to become -- Centrepoint's
essentially going to become a dead end up to the Delano Subdivision until it's connected.
There is going to be just that one option for them to get out to Ustick or to get out to Eagle
Road and so I'm in favor of removing the -- the word temporary in the -- modifying the
condition 1.F removing the word temporary and allowing that -- allowing Dashwood to be
emergency access only and that's at the request of the applicant. That's at the request
of the neighbors. A lot of the neighbors have said if you can't or aren't willing to close it,
which I don't think that we as a city should make that determination, the -- and, obviously,
the Deputy Chief Bongiorno said that we -- we can't do that, we have got to have that
secondary access. I'm in favor of keeping it as a secondary access by removing the --
the temporary terminology and, then, if ACHD chooses to do something later down the
road that's -- we don't have any control over that, but -- but by -- by really -- to me that --
that's the middle ground and I guess I'm hesitant to -- to recommend denial on an
application that has a fairly solvable issue and I -- and I say that -- I'm biting my tongue
right now, because we have these conversations every week; right? I say that because
there also have been -- there also have been situations in the past where we considered
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an application, denied the application, and, then, something else came in its place that
was not as beneficial as what was presented originally. So, I'm thinking about that
element of it as well. So, my -- my opinion on this is that I am comfortable with approving
the application, modifying that condition 1.F to remove the terminology -- the temporary
terminology as Mr. Nary explained and -- and I also am comfortable with allowing the east
side of Centrepoint to be developed with the conditional use permit that will come in the
future application for the multi-family. Oh. Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: Before -- one more thing. So, in the -- in the notes for this evening staff had
mentioned that they would like Council to address regarding the existing trees, whether
they should be removed --whether they are going to be removed by the --or by the owner,
whether we are going to require mitigation for both and I believe that we should. If I'm
understanding that request correctly.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I'm for the most part in agreement with Council Member Perreault and maybe
working backwards first. One, yeah, if we can keep those trees, let's keep the trees. It
sounds like the applicant wants to keep the trees, the neighbors want to keep the trees.
If for whatever reason one or two have to be removed for a certain reason, that they
mitigate that loss. I -- I think this is a huge improvement from what we saw a year ago.
This is a good in-fill project. It meets so many checkboxes I guess in our -- in our
Comprehensive Plan. The ongoing conversation that we are going to continue to have
and could probably have for another year is -- is about the connectivity and Council
Member Bernt, I appreciate your -- your comments tonight. I know you give credit to
Council Member Borton, but I appreciate you sharing them. The biggest piece -- and I
have touched on this a lot tonight -- is really what was communicated to the public before
and doing all we can to adhere to that. Justin Lucas did a great job of kind of talking
about what if and what could have happened. Ultimately I think that--that that connected
road was designed to terminate there and so I -- I do struggle with opening that back up.
I think I can wrap my head around emergency access, pedestrian connectivity, those to
me seem to make sense, but your point about, you know, our residents who live in that
apartment complex not having access to that connectivity and -- and putting on them to
find some other place is -- is well heard. I just go back to what has been in the past and
what warrants making a substantial change and I don't think that if -- it rises to the level
of making a substantial change that we need to open that up to everyone. Leave it set.
Removing the condition as I think has been articulated. AllowACHID to make any decision
that they think is necessary. But, again, I don't think we get much better of -- of an in-fill
project and I'm really pleased to support it, hoping to see it move forward.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: So, basically, the -- and whether we leave that Dashwood as temporary or
permanent, that's fine, but depending on that -- that northern parcel and when it develops
and adding, you know, that -- that R-40 project to the east, we are essentially saying that
entire -- this entire project will have one access. That's essentially what we are saying.
Put -- put your -- put yourself in the shoes of those people who will be living in those
apartments with kiddos, just like we all do, I mean in -- I mean that -- that is a lot of traffic
to be putting in a subdivision that size with one access point.
Simison: And if-- if I could just weigh in a little bit. I'm not -- I'm not going to say anything
that's popular in this case, but, you know, quite frankly, I don't think any of us got elected
just be popular, but I'm going to take Councilman Cavener -- look at the area of that
property. To me it's clear that that road was intended to be moved forward in the future.
It is not a traditional cul-de-sac. There is no homes at the end. The sidewalks aren't
completed around it. You know, if you -- if you take all those things into consideration --
now, the naming structure that was put to it, you know, perhaps gave that different
impression, but to me that road was meant to be improved when you look at the two cul-
de-sacs on the north -- on the east or west of it, they are both very much cul-de-sacs.
This one is not in the same vein as those two. One, the issues with Alpine Pointe that I
think is different than many other areas is every home in this subdivision is facing the
road. There --there is no clear cut collector street in this area. So, if you look at someone
on the -- on the far southwest corner and how they have to navigate through the
subdivision, someone moving anywhere in the subdivision from the interior has to drive
by approximately-- anywhere from ten to 30 homes that are all front facing in order to exit
the subdivision. So, I'm not going to -- I don't have a solution to say what direction you
should or should not go. I might say one right -- or maybe things that should have been
put in when the development was first developed and try to fix it, but going back to
connectivity to me is huge and if I was -- if I was put to on my hat and if you had the --
that road fully connected, yeah, I can see about maybe half the people going through that
direction and half the people going out through another direction, depending on which
way they are going to go. I don't think it would be everybody. But until -- once Wainwright
is put together all the way. Until then a different story, you know, completely. So, it's just
an observation. It's not anything more than that from my perspective.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate your comments on this, because, quite frankly, I think where you
are is where I was at the start of this meeting. The design of that cul-de-sac I think would
lead anybody to believe that that street is going to go through in the future and it wasn't
until I had heard the -- the comments from Mr. Lucas and from Mr. Bongiorno about a
turnaround lane that that --that at least clicked with me. You mean you have got a design
of a cul-de-sac that leads itself to be connected through, but the name designation seems
to indicate that it terminates. So, they both can't be right and so for me, at least the
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conclusion I got to, is that it was designed to be a term. I'm not saying that that's correct
or incorrect -- again, I don't think any of us know, but to me at least that piece seemed to
connect with me and I understood that. So, I appreciate your comments. I just think that
we have come to two different conclusions.
Simison: Yeah. I think if the sidewalk was connected throughout the entire curve I would
agree, but it's not, because the sidewalk stops.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: A big element of this for me is if we -- if we were to recommend that Dashwood
were to be connected and vehicles would -- would come through and/or we were to -- to
go along with ACHID's recommendation, I'm very concerned that these are private streets,
that they are going to be more narrow and it's not going to handle the -- the amount of
traffic that a public street size would. It's -- that -- that's one piece of this particular project
that is different. As we talked about whether we allow access on Dashwood -- vehicle
access or not, is that it -- and I know -- I know Alpine -- Alpine Pointe Subdivision very
well. I drive through there on a regular basis. I have done business in that subdivision.
I know it exceptionally well. It is -- it is a little bit hard to get around in. The streets all go
different directions. It's easy to get lost in. And I do anticipate that just like we have
discussed with our field -- or with our priority growth areas, the -- the Magic View area
that -- that there is a lot of traffic coming through there, coming through from Eagle Road,
I anticipate that same scenario happening with this, where people are going to take --
take an alternative route off of Eagle Road. It's not -- it's not dissimilar in what we have
experienced with Woodbridge and -- and so -- and, then, add to that private roads that
are more narrow. So, if these were in private streets and they didn't -- then I may not -- I
may even have less concern about actually being okay with the connectivity into -- into
Alpine Pointe, but I don't see it managing the traffic because of the size of the street.
Simison: And just from my perspective -- and I know that's all it is is when you do have
more narrow streets -- I mean people go the -- the path of least resistance and if
Wainwright was open I don't think it would ever be an issue, because people would have
to go slower. They are not going to take that path to get out, unless they live in that area
in my opinion. But traffic models would -- would -- would prove what it is to a certain
extent, but even that -- they don't always get that right, but --
Borton- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Borton.
Borton- So, the quick response -- I guess the conclusion drawn from all of this -- there is
so much that's better. I mean really Hethe and his crew really did a lot I think to address
a lot of concerns. I think the way that he's -- he's worked the transition and reduced
density and addressed the height of the homes on the north, I think all of that makes great
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sense and he really -- I think that the applicant was stuck with an almost insurmountable
challenge, because the challenge that -- that was raised back in November still exists in
my eyes. I don't think -- and in some of the discussion that I --that I pressed with regards
to Dashwood to the north is just not -- you just can't have it remain emergency access
only. It might -- very well might happen, but -- but it might not. So, what very well could
happen is -- it ties into a concern I had throughout this application is you could have a
lack of connectivity-- Centrepoint Way might not go north. You now have smaller parcels
that might be less -- more cost prohibitive for the parcel to the north to develop,
understanding the magnitude of the roadway that's got to be put in. With that unknown,
if Centrepoint Way is not connected to the north and if we have no control to ensure
Dashwood is truly emergency, again, I -- I phrased it the way before, this is not all the
applicant's fault. The project -- the footprint is what it is, but you could have generations
of this development with a lot of folks connecting to Wainwright through this project and
-- and through Dashwood, because it's never connected and that's a real possibility and
that's one of the unfortunate problems I think -- I just couldn't get around last time, I can't
get around it right now, the principal ultimately falls to me being it's -- it's not the right time
in light of the property that this project's comprised of. I think that the lack of certainty or
any control over Centrepoint Way makes this project really difficult and it makes me
believe that it's just not the right time. I think the applicant's done a great job and I think
the public raised a lot of great concern and we all listened to their concerns and read all
of the input that's been provided, so after considering all of that I -- I'm just stuck, I don't
think I could support this one.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I was going to bring up the point that, you know, our traffic policies, how we
look at things, what we try to do sometimes kind of conflict with each other, because we
want to have lights at quarter miles and access points and limit any other ingress and
egress at other locations. You know, I remember driving down Eagle Road and there was
little farm houses and this that and the other and everyone had their own driveways. Of
course traffic was a lot less. So, I get it. So, we create Wainwright and we want that to
be the access point to and from Eagle Road and at Ustick we have a light at the
Centrepoint there, that's the access point, and eventually those are to connect and that's
how we move people around and you go up a little farther, another quarter mile from
McMillan you have got another entrance and that's how we have designed it. So, there
is not a way to say, oh, they -- we need to create access directly in so people aren't going
through these neighborhoods. Well, we don't want that access, unless it's commercial
where they are just going in and out there, there has to be these through streets. Then
we create a chicken and the egg. What comes first. If the businesses come in and they
go why do we need Centrepoint. There is nothing behind it, you know. Or do we link the
residential and -- well, we are not going to do it until the businesses are there. It's -- it's
kind of this difficult situation that we are in and I remember a few months back if you just
do a mile and a quarter, mile and a half to the south on Eagle Road to -- on the east side
having a very long discussion about a vacant lot and connection point and they will
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connect someday and we went ahead with that proposal because someday they will
connect and there will be an access point. So, it's -- I see it in a similar vein. There will
be access. It's on our master street plan. It makes sense. If you look at the satellite map
it was -- the width is there. When? You're right, we have no guarantees, no certainty, but
I -- you know, I had -- to me I have to -- I have to close up Dashwood. You got how many
apartments there at the Brickyard that people will find a way if they are going to Rocky
Mountain or where ever, they find that's quicker to weave their way through, they will do
it. So, to me there is -- and not having the benefit of having been through this process
before, as the other three gentlemen have, I think it's a good development. They have
responded well to --to the request and the needs of the neighborhood. So, that's --that's
where I'm coming from. I respect everyone's opinion, everyone has thought through
these things and sometimes we just come out to a different conclusion.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Just want to correct the record for Mr. Hoaglun. He referred to three of us as
gentlemen. There is only two of us that are gentlemen and I will let you figure out which
two to count.
Simison: I think now is a perfect time to make a motion, as Councilman Hoaglun left, so
it's an odd vote. Oh.
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor it said my internet connection wasn't stable. I have another
computer, so I thought I need to shut some things down over there and make sure I don't
miss out on all this fun. Well, Mr. Mayor, I will throw one out and knowing that it may not
go anywhere, so be it. We have already closed the public hearing. So, I would actually,
I do have one comment or request before I make a motion and that was on the the trees
to the south. You know, I'm -- I'm very willing to have those remain in the southwest
corner, but keeping those trees -- I didn't see an option for the setbacks with those trees
and the lot size that would have to mitigate that and where it says as many existing trees
as possible on the southern border of the site shall be -- the site shall be retained on the
site -- I was thinking that they could remove and mitigate as -- as -- as --as necessary.
So, anyway, that's -- that's where I was coming from on that and where I will go on this,
but if that's an issue with someone I would like to know.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I read that differently and it is a little bit confusing the way it's worded in here,
but I read it as determining whether we are going to require the owner to mitigate that if
they choose to take them down for firewood. Am I misunderstanding that?
Allen: Mr. Mayor?
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Simison: Yes, ma'am.
Allen: If I -- if I may answer that. Council Woman Perreault, it would be the developer
that would be responsible. It was the owner that was planning to remove the trees for
firewood. That's why -- that's why staff didn't place a condition on it for mitigation as is
typical. It was a little different deal. But this condition would be on the developer if you
choose to put one on them. Thank you.
Hoaglun: So, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I would move approval of Item 7-13, H-2019-0027, with the following conditions
to be modified. 1-C. Not limit to single story. Modify 1-F. Remove the word temporary
and just have it be that Dashwood would be emergency access only. And also a condition
that the trees in the southwest corner remain to the extent possible and I think on -- on
the conditions that mitigation has been pointed out, will -- will follow the developer if there
are other trees that are removed on -- on the site in other areas. So, with -- with those
points I would move approval of H-2019-0027.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Hoaglun: Question for Councilman Hoaglun. I don't have 1-C in front of me. Is that the
condition that allows just the northern boundary to be single level, but not the west
boundary?
Hoaglun: Mr. Mayor, Council Woman Perreault, yes, that's my understanding that
referred to the northern boundary.
Perreault: If that's the case, then, I second your motion.
Allen: Excuse me, Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Yes, Sonya.
Allen: That condition is not number 1-C, it's number 1-D as in David.
Hoaglun: I definitely want to get it right. I had written down 1-C. So, if it is 1-D I would
like to amend my motion to -- to make that fit to the correct condition.
Simison- Okay. Does the second agree?
Perreault: Mr. Mayor, yes, the second agrees. Thank you.
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Simison: I have a motion and a second. Is there discussion on the motion?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I'm going to be a no vote tonight and I -- and I think even if it does pass, I'm glad
we are trying to do something about temporary access on -- on -- to the Alpine Pointe
Subdivision. I just -- to me there is safety issues in that neighborhood with how close the
streets are and if ACHID decides to open that street up I think it's going to cause a lot of
issues. I think in the meantime, to Councilman Bernt's point, now we are going to be left
with this development that might have really limited access in and out. It just doesn't feel
like the right order that we should be going in and that's hard and I -- I applaud the
applicant for really improving the application. I just -- I just -- I think we have got to get
the connectivity that we are looking for in the right order that we are looking for it or else
we might be left with a real mess on our hands for like ten years and I just -- it's just too
important to me to get it right. I don't think it makes sense to vote for it. So, I will be voting
against it.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I have to say I think since we have become a new Council this is probably the
most excited I am to see how a vote plays out. I will just -- I'm just going to reiterate. This
is a wonderful in-fill project. We have talked in so many meetings about wanting to make
in-fill a priority, but the reason why we want to make in-fill a priority is because it's never
easy and it never fits into a perfect box. We can't wrap a bow on it. And it doesn't always
follow the plan that we hope. This is a great project that is going to meet the needs of our
community. Thoughtfully designed. I think that we as a Council tonight -- again even
knowing where some of you are going to land on this vote tonight, the fact that you put
the time and attention to kind of deliberate on some of these small -- what appear to be
smaller issues, just speaks so much to our approach to serving our citizens. I think this
is a great project. It's a great piece of in-fill. I'm obviously going to be supportive of the
motion and I would hope that you would all be, too. Let's vote.
Simison: If there is no further comments I will ask the clerk to call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, nay; Borton, nay; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, nay; Perreault,
yea.
Weatherly: Mayor Simison?
Simison: My first time I get to vote I'm going to explain my vote before I cast it and for me
it does come down to connectivity and Councilman Cavener talked about it all in terms of
the pluses and minuses of the in-fill and there is give and take, you don't always get what
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you want when you do it from that standpoint and I agree with everything about the quality
of the project from when I first saw proposals for this when I was a staff member about
this coming in from the city of Boise and considering it, but one of my frustrations that I
have in the whole land use policy discussion and it's really born with ACHID and I'm going
to go back to last year when there was a conversation about another in-fill project where
they pick winners and losers in terms of what roads would be connected and what roads
would not be connected and, quite frankly, we all have the struggle in our subdivisions
about people that drive by our homes, why we get to choose that, why we don't get to
choose that and I understand some people buy their homes with the anticipation that no
one will do that. But when we have roads that are eligible to be connected and we choose
not to do it or when ACHD weighs in and chooses not to make roadway connections that
are there to be established, I have a hard time, especially on an in-fill project, because
you don't have any idea what the true nature of the movements of the people in that area
are going to be. So, my vote tonight is going to make probably nobody happy, except for
the homeowners, but I'm going to vote no, but it's because the road is not being fully
connected. That to me is something that does need to occur if we are going to have
connectivity in our community. I know that's not what the homeowners wanted. I know
that's not what the applicant proposed. But that's the rationale for me voting no on this
project is the -- is that road not being connected as an access point. So, the motion fails.
MOTION FAILED: THREE AYES. THREE NAYS. MAYOR NAY.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt- I move that we deny item H-2019-0027.
Strader- Second.
Simison- I have a motion and a second. Is there discussion on the motion?
Nary- Mr. Mayor?
Cavener- Mr. Mayor?
Nary- I just -- Mr. Mayor, if I could just make -- if the maker of the motion would clarify the
basis for the -- why it's not in the best interest of the city.
Bernt: I move that we deny item H-2019-0027 for conductivity purposes. I believe that in
the best interest of our city and that -- that region of our community I believe that in order
to solve all of the problems that we are debating tonight, both back and forth, those that
have been discussed by the applicant and also the residents and us as the decision
makers on -- as Council and the Mayor himself, I believe the only way that we can solve
this problem is connecting Centrepoint all the way to Wainwright and so that's the basis
of this -- this denial for myself.
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Nary: Thank you.
Simison: Does the second agree with that, the termination for themself?
Strader: I agree.
Simison: Is there discussion on the motion?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: I don't want to belabor the point, but this is something that this Council, the
Planning and Zoning Commission, citizens, have wrestled with for a year. The applicant
has made considerable changes. I guess I don't know if there is any other changes that
could come to this -- this application that would satisfy the three in opposition, I just would
-- I always like to give the applicant who has spent so much time and attention one last
opportunity to make any changes before we push a denial and I don't know if that would
change anybody's mind, but I know that we typically frown on substitute motions, but I will
likely be opposing that motion just in case there is another opportunity for the applicant
to have another look at this.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Borton.
Borton- I don't know what that means.
Cavener- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Cavener.
Cavener- While I think I have a good understanding as to why the four of you opposed it,
I don't know if there would be any changes to the design of the project that you would,
then, be supportive of or if it's only we either connect Wainwright or whatever the name
of that street is and that's -- that's why you would support it or if there is nothing that would
get you to change your mind. I'm one that always believes in giving the applicant the
opportunity to course correct or fix what we believe are deficiencies prior to rendering a
decision. Now, if there is not anything that will change anyone's mind, then, we don't
need to go through that exercise, but if there is, then, I think it's at least worthy of giving
the applicant the opportunity to address it.
Perreault- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Council Woman Perreault.
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Perreault: Considering that a denial requires the applicant to wait a year before
reapplying, I agree with Councilman Cavener.
Hoaglun: Mr. -- Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: I -- you know. And that was my course of questioning. I wanted to find out if
we knew any of the details about the property to the north at Centrepoint Way would
traverse to see if -- you know, if there was some certainty and there was not, but with the
limited information he shared and obviously -- and no doubt that he didn't know of
anything, unless, you know, someone's going in to purchase the property with that intent
of developing right now, you know, I would be open to allowing him to try, but I -- I'm not
optimistic about that at all. So, I just -- without -- without that connectivity the votes aren't
there and I think it's back to the drawing board or waiting until someone develops it up
front and then -- then they might come back in and be able to go again, so --
Simison: Well, for the -- for the other three of you I explained to you my main rationale
for the denial -- or from my no vote, but I don't think that's where the Council wants to go
and I'm not going to say that's the right place for it to go, but --
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I don't mean to beat a -- you know, my drum any more than I have. At -- at the
end of the day there is -- there is just too many question marks for me and we just -- we
have heard this application twice and both times it's boiled down to the same reasoning
for the most part. So, we have had great discussion tonight. I mean I remember back in
the day when we had these applications and they lasted five or ten minutes, I mean now
-- I mean like it's -- it's fantastic how we -- we dot every I and cross every T and I -- and I
love every second of it. So, I personally don't know -- you know, I don't know what else
the developer could do in order to fix this issue, other than connecting a road and he has
no control over that, so --
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: The -- the challenge is that that -- there is probably never going to be a point
at which owners in Alpine Pointe are going to want that to connect. It's just-- it's not going
to happen and so whether it's this application or it's another application that comes before
us in the future, this conversation is not going away and that for me is one of the elements
of why I'm taking the perspective I'm taking, because looking at the application itself, it's
a good application, it falls within the Comprehensive Plan, they have made the
modifications, but a majority of the modifications that were recommended by the Planning
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and Zoning Commission they made. The applicant has responded to nearly everything
that has been requested and so what I guess -- I guess I'm saying all this to ask the
question of the other Council Members, is this a let's wait until Wainwright goes through
and all of this entire area gets developed, including the property to the north and this
property jointly, or is this a matter of Dashwood needs to connect period? Those are, in
my opinion, two very different things that affect Alpine Pointe one way positively and one
waynegatively. But one way or the other Alpine Pointe's always going to have an interest
in what happens with Dashwood and that's not going to change whether it's this
application or a different one.
Hoaglun: Well, Mr. Mayor, just to answer that question --
Simison: Councilman Hoaglun.
Hoaglun: Yeah. To me we cannot have Dashwood open. The -- the -- the -- the
apartments at the Brickyard do not have connectivity and Dashwood, that -- that would
be a travesty for the neighborhood. They have made it very clear. I get it. I understand
it, you know, and -- and Mr. Marcos, if he's still on, we don't need to see your face and --
and have you at City Hall, because you guys made the -- made the the case very very
well and it is a matter of having to me that alternate collector that that arterial, sorry,
that goes through there. Centrepoint Way. So, yeah, to me it's not about that connectivity,
that -- that to me I don't think should ever happen.
Cavener: Here. Here.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I'm in agreement in general with the thought process. I -- I feel like the
connection on Dashwood is problematic for the neighborhood and in the absence of a
good connection that either alleviates the need to have only temporary access or create
an alternative or better access, so unless we have an alternative we would be approving
a project that doesn't have any connectivity or a situation that might get overruled and we
are going to fight with ACHID and we don't get the outcome that we want anyway. So, I
just -- I really took to heart Councilman Bernt's and Borton's points about trying to do this
in the right order and the applicant could go through all the efforts in the world and I
applaud them for doing it, but if it's just not the right timing and it's not the right outcome
we are looking for, I just can't approve it and that's where I'm at. I don't see how they
could -- short of working with the other parcels to the north to come up with the
connectivity we are looking for, I don't see how it solves the issue and we have gone
around and around and I think it's unfair to prolong the process for the neighbors and for
everybody else to go through this continuously. Unless there was -- like I said, unless
there was a connectivity solution that we are looking for.
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Simison: And I think I would just add that this does -- it's a -- it's different, but it's very
reminiscent of the project two weeks ago in south Meridian where we have one parcel
that wants to develop, we have others that did not, which was creating challenges in this
area and if it all developed at the same time you may have a lot more options that make
sense for this area. So, that is something that I think has merit for the future. It may not
ever solve the issue, though, and -- is there any further comments or should I have the
clerk call the roll?
Bernt: Call the roll.
Hoaglun: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, just one last comment. People see the tie vote that we just
had and think, wow, they are really divided on this issue. We really are not divided on
this issue, it's just a matter of when that connection is to be made. I mean I think we are
pretty much in agreement on that. So, yeah, this is not a divided Council if anybody gets
-- don't get the wrong idea, because it's just a matter of when that will happen. If we
believe it will happen we can do the development and it will happen or let's make that --
make sure that happens and, then, we do the development. So, that's all.
Bernt: Great point. Well said.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: So, if I'm understanding correctly, what we are essentially saying is that any
applicant that comes in to develop this property is really just not going to get -- I guess so
long as the -- the six of us are here -- likely not going to get approval unless Wainwright
is extended all -- or, excuse me, Centrepoint is extended all the way up to Wainwright.
Well, if there is a -- if there is an individual or a company that comes in and wants to
develop that north parcel or the owner who is currently there, that's going to make it really
hard for them to develop that north parcel, because Centrepoint wasn't connected up from
the south. So, I just see this -- sort of this circular, you know, situation where the property
to the north doesn't really have value as a -- as a developable piece, because Centrepoint
doesn't connect to it and so you are not going to have somebody that's going to come in
and finish the north side of Centrepoint up to Wainwright if you don't have the south piece
already done. So, essentially, what we are saying, in essence, by default is that none of
this is going to get developed unless it all gets done together with all of those parcels in
between what exists now and Alpine Pointe. I just want to throw that out there.
Nary: Mr. Mayor? I appreciate Council Member Perreault's comments, because that is
a concern. You are placing this condition that they cannot fix. It is a highway district. If
you recall, the highway district even testified before -- it wasn't tonight, so I don't want to
raise it, but the roadway is designed and on their master street map and it is a planned
future, but you are, essentially, prohibiting this parcel from developing even if they can
meet any other means to meet the traffic conditions they are creating; right? So, I mean
at the right time it's okay, I'm not concerned about that, but the reality is is you have made
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it so no one can develop this parcel until somebody else builds a roadway that is not on
the city, it's not an ACHD five year work plan and so no development of any kind can
occur there, even if they can mitigate their impact and that's a little more concerning to
me from a -- from a defended -- defending it standpoint, is that's -- that's a problematic
condition you are placing on this one property that has at least presented some evidence
to show they are meeting their needs for safety for the volume of traffic and all of those
things and the condition about the connectivity is a different condition that's not really their
making or their ability to change. So, it is a concern. But, again, I understand your points.
Everybody's point is valid. I get it. And annexation is a different animal, but that is
problematic, not just for this developer, for any other developer.
Simison: Mr. Nary, if-- could you address -- because I feel like this condition has existed
up at the -- I forget the -- the property right there by the Meridian Road interchange where
it required a connection to Corporate coming in that was, again, off property.
Nary: Right. And Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, yeah, that's a great example. So,
when that project was denied, again, it was because all of the traffic was predominantly
going to spill through the subdivision and they had very little connectivity to the other
roadway system there and they couldn't fix that. So, again, like I said, in an annexation
-- I mean you have a greater latitude on what you can do, but I think Council Member
Perreault has pointed out a bigger fact. You can -- in that parcel you had a very large
piece that you can address in many different ways to try to address the traffic. But was a
little different. This is an adjoining parcel. They don't own it. It's not one piece. That's a
little more problematic. And, again, the roadway system is completely within the purview
of ACHD and they don't have a future project to build that road yet. They -- they have it
in their plans, but they aren't planning on doing it. So, I think what Council Member
Perreault is at least raising is you aren't just setting the stage for this applicant, you are
setting the stage for anybody else that wants to develop in this area, that it's all or nothing
and that hasn't been a very common practice by the city.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I don't agree with that perspective personally. Just to share my view on it, I think
that the stakes for this development are significantly higher because of its location and
the specific density in this area. I don't think we are saying there is a hard and fast rule,
but we are -- at least speaking for myself I'm voting for what I think is in the best interest
of our community as a whole and I think achieving the connectivity that we want is
important and I wouldn't underestimate, you know, the entrepreneurial abilities for any
applicant to work with an adjoining parcel and work out a business deal or figure
something out in the future. I just -- you know. So, I don't think we are saying there is a
-- there is a precedent that we are setting by this, I just -- for me, for this application, the
timing and the stakes I think for the neighborhood that's next door and also just the
amount of folks that are living in the Brickyard, I mean those are all factors that are
weighing on it. And also the safety factor of the roadway, Dashwood, if that were to
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connect, you know, I don't think it's an appropriate road to funnel like all of the traffic for
this one development through it and I also don't think it's workable to end up with basically
one entrance and exit for a massive subdivision if -- if we are closing Dashwood. I just
think the specific circumstances warrant -- warrant the vote.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: In regard to traffic from Brooksburg, which is there whether this gets approved
or not, there are many different exits out of that area not just Centrepoint. So, they -- that
-- there is a street that runs in front of Fast Eddy's that goes out to Eagle Road. There
are several exits out of the commercial area in that -- there is multiple exits out of the
commercial area. Some are right turn only, some are left turn onto Eagle Road, but -- but
all of the -- all of the Brickyard apartments don't just have to use Centrepoint to get out of
their community, there is already connections that exist. There is that -- again, there is
two or three different options for them to exit onto -- onto Eagle Road, as well as to exit
to the south onto Ustick. So, this isn't just a one -- a one in one out scenario on
Centrepoint for the apartments that have already been approved.
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: To maybe ask Mr. Naryaboutthe implications orthe ramifications of the motion,
if I remember correctly, this initially was continued because we needed to get the okay
from the city of Boise that they were comfortable with releasing this property from the city
of Boise area of impact into Meridian. If the denial is approved tonight, do we prevent the
applicant from going to the city of Boise and being able to explore doing a project within
their jurisdiction?
Nary: So, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, the process
would be the same in reverse. They would have to come to you first to request to be
released from our city's area of impact. You would make that separate decision from this
application on whether or not that makes sense to this Council to allow this to be removed
to the city of Boise and, then, the city of Boise would have to agree to accept it back and
do the map amendment changes that they did last fall. The other option, just throwing it
out there just for your consideration, they are still in the county. I don't know what level
of development is allowed in the county for what they are seeking. Obviously, there is
sewer and water issues about that, but they are -- that's certainly an option they have as
well. But, yeah, they could certainly come back and ask for it to go back to Boise.
Simison- Although I would -- I would think that the county would not allow them to develop
based upon the location and the availability of sewer and water. So, I highly doubt that
would occur.
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Nary: Yeah. The only thing I would suggest that -- Mr. Mayor, is that Central District
Health is the issue on septics and not the county and they have already stated in the past
if we won't annex them they will allow them to build a septic. Now, again, can they build
a septic for this level of development, I don't think so. But, again, they have other options
besides this one.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I don't buy into the notion that we are setting any type of precedent this evening.
All right? Because we are given facts on developments, proposed projects, and we
deliberate, we make decisions based upon those facts. By -- by-- by assuming that there
is a precedence being set is that you are saying that all future projects for this area are
going to be the exact same and so -- and I just don't -- I just don't think that -- I mean I
don't know how you could ever say that or-- or-- or how we could even assume that. We
weren't -- we were given a set of facts and we were -- we listen to deliberation all night
long and we vote on what we hear and so to say that, you know, that is going to be the
same going forward and that it's going to be a no vote going forward, is -- is not -- I don't
believe it's a fair statement to make.
Perreault: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Perreault.
Perreault: I know that that was -- that wasn't what I was communicating. What I was
communicating was -- is that as far as how these parcels are laid out, if we are going to
require that Wainwright be connected in through the north parcel in order for the south
parcels to be to be developed, whether it's this project or a different residential project,
however the the project is laid out is not a factor in the discussion we are having right
now. The fact is is that -- that now we are tying two parcels with two different owners and
we are saying that unless both of you develop in such a way that Wainwright -- that
Centrepoint and Wainwright connect, then, neither of those parcels, no matter how great
their application is, is going to work, because we are saying that whether it's this piece or
whether it's the piece to the north, Mr. Wong's property, we are saying that Wainwright
has to connect all the way through all of those parcels in order for the city to be
comfortable with the connectivity. So, it's not a precedent. I'm not -- I'm not saying we
are setting any kind of precedent about how we vote regarding these types of applications,
I'm saying on these specific parcels in this specific location, we are saying that the south
parcel cannot develop without the north being developed, because Wainwright's got to go
through both of them to connect to it's -- in its current location.
Borton- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Mr. Borton.
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Borton: I agree with Councilman Hoaglun's comments -- now it's been a while ago -- but
I think we are all on the same page, seeing things a little different, but this is I think healthy,
good, robust discussion and helpful. Having said that, if I may, I would call the question
on the motion.
Simison: Okay. The question has been called. I will ask the clerk to call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, nay; Hoaglun, nay; Strader, yea; Perreault,
nay.
Simison: Aye.
Weatherly: Sorry?
Simison: I said aye. Sorry. Motion passes. Four to three.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. THREE NAYS. MAYOR AYE.
Item 8: Ordinances [Action Item]
A. Ordinance No. 20-1879: An Ordinance Repealing and Replacing
Title 10, Chapter 6, Meridian City Code, Regarding Flood
Damage Prevention; Voiding Any Conflicting Provisions; and
Providing an Effective Date
Simison: Item 8-A is an Ordinance No. 20-1879. 1 will ask the clerk to read this ordinance
by title.
Weatherly- Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Ordinance No. 20-1879, an ordinance repealing and
replacing Title 10, Chapter 6, Meridian City Code, regarding flood damage prevention;
voiding any conflicting provisions-, and providing an effective date.
Simison- You have heard this ordinance read by title. Would anybody like to have it read
in its entirety? If not, do I have a motion?
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Simison: And move that we approve Ordinance No. 20-1879, repealing and replacing
Title 10, Chapter 6, Meridian City Code regarding flood damage prevention.
Hoaglun- Mr. Mayor?
Simison- Councilman Hoaglun.
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Hoaglun: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance No. 20-1879. Is there any
discussion on the motion? If not, clerk will call the roll.
Roll call: Bernt, yea; Borton, yea; Cavener, yea; Hoaglun, yea; Strader, yea; Perreault,
yea.
Simison: Ordinance passes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Item 9: Future Meeting Topics
Simison: Item 9. Any items of future meeting topics?
Cavener: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Cavener.
Cavener: Recognizing I'm talking about future meeting topics and I wasn't at the
workshop meeting today when we talked about a future meeting topic I -- I requested, so
my apologies to Council for not making the workshop, but I thought it might be beneficial
-- there has been a lot of dialogue amongst Council Members and staff about our working
relationship with the school district. I know you and your staff are working really hard to
fill a much needed position to help address some of that, but a thought might be if it's
worth us as a Council discussing maybe creating a Council liaison role to the district. You
know, we have got liaison roles with so many other boards and organizations and perhaps
this may be another step forward in trying to really build a collaborative relationship with
the school district and their trustees and, again, I don't know if it's something that the rest
of the Council feels strongly about one way or another. Perhaps that could be a
conversation for a future meeting.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: You know, I apologize, it's sort of late and my internet connection went sort of
fuzzy, so I didn't -- I didn't hear what Luke said, unfortunately, at the beginning.
Simison- If I could have a future meeting topic regarding liaison roles with West Ada
School District.
Bernt: Okay.
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Simison: Okay. Are there any other future meeting topics? If not, I would entertain a
motion.
Bernt: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn the meeting.
Hoaglun: Second.
Simison: I have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. Is there any discussion
on the motion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed nay. The
ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:13 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
5 / 26 /2020
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATEAPPROVED
ATTEST-
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
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