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2020-04-23 Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting April 23, 2020. Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of April 23, 2020, was called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Ryan Fitzgerald. Members Present: Chairman Ryan Fitzgerald, Commissioner Rhonda McCarvel, Commissioner Lisa Holland, Commissioner Bill Cassinelli, Commissioner Andrew Seal, Commissioner Nick Grove and Commissioner Patricia Pitzer. Others Present: Chris Johnson, Adrienne Weatherly, Andrea Pogue, Bill Parsons and Joe Dodson. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance __X__Lisa Holland __X__Patricia Pitzer __X__Andrew Seal __X__Nick Grove __X__Rhonda McCarvel __X__Bill Cassinelli __X__Ryan Fitzgerald - Chairperson Fitzgerald: Okay. Good evening and welcome to our Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for the date of April 23rd, 2020, and we are bringing this to you via Zoom webinar. We will kind of give you an explanation of how this is going to go this evening. On your screen you should see the Commissioners that are present for this evening's meeting, which I think we are all here. Also on the call are staff and the city attorney and city clerk's office. Staff from our Planning Department and -- will also be on the call. Everyone else that is online, Zoom attendees, you may observe the meeting and we can see that you are there, however, your -- your ability to talk and be seen will be muted. During the public testimony portion of the meeting you will be unmuted and able to comment. If you have previously sent in presentations for the meeting it will be displayed on the screen. The clerk will run the presentation for you. The clerk can also assist with bringing up a slide from other present -- another presentation if you ask. If you simply want to watch the meeting we encourage you to watch the streaming live on the city's YouTube channel. You can access that at meridiancity.org forward slash live and when public testimony is open the clerk will call the names of those who signed up to testify on our website. You will be unmuted and have an opportunity to address the chair and, then, make your presentation. Please state your name and address for the record and you will have three minutes to address the Commission. After that time we will ask for -- you could ask questions -- or we will be able to ask questions for clarification. Once done you will be muted and no longer have the ability to speak. Once all those who have signed up in advance are called on I will invite any others who wish to testify up -- who wish to speak on your topic or on the application. Please press the raise your hand button on the Zoom app or if you are only listening through phone or landline you can press star nine and we will wait to be -- please wait to be called. If you are listening on multiple devices and a computer or a phone, please, sure -- please be sure to mute those devices, so you do not Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 2 of 40 experience feedback and everyone will be able to hear you effectively. Please note that we cannot take questions other than in public -- in the public testimony portion. If you have a process question during the meeting, please, send an e-mail to the clerk at cityclerk@meridiancity.org and they will attempt to help you during the process. So, with that, Madam Clerk, will you, please, call roll and we will get our stuff squared away for the evening. Thanks, ma'am. And I should have done roll call first. I apologize for that. One other housekeeping item. There is a couple things I want to make sure. Going forward, just as we are having Zoom meetings, I want to make sure everybody has a chance to make sure they are -- how you are voting, I'm going to have the clerk call every application as a roll call vote, so we can make sure we have clear voting records for everybody. And, then, if you have any technical difficulties, like your microphone's not working or something of that nature, please, wave your hand if the video is still working. If not, shoot Chris an e-mail or a text or a phone call and we will try to get you reestablished so you can be part of that discussion. So, just want to make sure that's clear and we will move on. Item 2: Adoption of Agenda Fitzgerald: So, the first item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. We do have one application that is requesting a continuance. That's the Idaho Central Credit Union, which is H-2020-0010. That application is being requested for continuance until May 21st, 2020, and just for informational for the Commission, they are going through a DA modification that's in front of City Council right now and so we can't take action on this until that modification is done. So, it's no one's fault or no one's -- actually, we just need to continue it until the City Council has a chance to act on that DA mod. So, with that adjustment of that one being continued, we will call for continuance only, can I get a motion to adopt the agenda as presented. Seal: So moved. McCarvel: Second. Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as presented for the hearing date of the 23rd. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 3: Consent Agenda \[Action Item\] A. Approve Minutes of April 16, 2020, Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Fitzgerald: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. We do have one item on the agenda, which is the approval of minutes for the April 16th, 2020, Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. All those in favor of the -- oh, I need a motion. I can't do it myself. Sorry. Can I get a motion to accept the Consent Agenda? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 3 of 40 McCarvel: Nice try. Seal: So moved. Cassinelli: Second. Fitzgerald: Thank you. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same? Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4: Consent Agenda A. Public Hearing for Idaho Central Credit Union (H-2020-0010) by Idaho Central Credit Union, Located at 3152 W. Peak Cloud Ln. 1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a drive-through establishment within 300 feet of another drive-through facility on 2.03 acres of land in the C-G zoning district Fitzgerald: Okay. So, can we get a -- we will move on to the first item on the agenda, which is H-2020-0010. Can I get a motion from our good Commission to continue that application until May 21st, 2020. Cassinelli: So moved. Seal: Second. McCarvel: Second. Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to continue the public hearing for Idaho Central Credit Union, H-2020-0010. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you very much. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. B. Public Hearing for Good Apple Taphouse (H-2020-0036) by Rob and Carmen Bienapfl, Located at 1728 E. McMillan Rd. 1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a drinking establishment on 0.96 of an acre of land in the C-N zoning district. Fitzgerald: Okay. Moving on to the second item on our agenda is -- it is a public hearing for Good Apple Taphouse, File Number H-2020-0036, and let's start with the staff report. Joe, are you available, sir? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 4 of 40 Dodson: Yes, sir, I am. And thank you. Thanks for having me, Commissioners. Good evening. I hope everybody is in good health. We will let this go -- Chris. Yeah. Next slide. I guess now the slide numbers are off, because I didn't realize the first one was the cover. My bad. So, the request before you is a conditional use permit for a drinking establishment on .96 acres of land in the C-N zoning district by Rob and Carmen Bienapfl, the owners of the business. Good Apple Taphouse operates within a newly constructed commercial building located at 1728 East McMillan Road, which is near the northeast corner of McMillan and Locust Grove. The building has received both certificate of zoning compliance and design review approval. Staff would like to note here that the business was operating prior to the stay-at-home order from the COVID-19 outbreak. They obtained their certificate of occupancy due to staff error and it was not caught until they applied for their alcohol license. Because this error was made on staff's side, the director made the determination that they may continue operating under their temporary license and occupancy while the conditional use permit was being processed. A drinking establishment is a conditional use in the C-N -- C-N zoning district as shown in UDC Table 11-2B-2. It is also subject to specific use standards. You can go to the third slide, Chris. Thank you. The business owners are operating a taphouse where on-site brewing does not occur. Only the sale of alcoholic beverages. In addition, customers may bring their own food, so there are also no kitchen facilities within the establishment at this time. The proposed application and operations appear to meet the required specific use standards for a drinking establishment and the UDC standards. This is mostly due in part because the building is existing and they are not proposing any kind of physical modifications at all. Because the building is existing and Good Apple is a tenant, the site improvements are already -- have already been constructed. These include a parking lot with 43 parking stalls and subsequent landscaping. The landscaping is along the eastern side of the building with a six foot vinyl privacy fence placed 20 feet from the building on its east property boundary. The 20 feet is the required setback from the commercial building to a residential zone. The building also has a smaller patio area on the east side of the building for customers to enjoy the sun while drinking craft beer, hard cider, and wine. Customers are also allowed have their food on the patio. Staff notes that prior to the virus outbreak and subsequent shutdown, this business was operating and no instances of excessive noise or parking lot crowding had been reported. Staff would like to note that as future tenants move into this building parking will be monitored to ensure compliance with UDC standards. At this time staff finds the existing parking to be sufficient for this use. In addition to the parking lot and landscaping directly to the east of this site is a residentially zoned property that has yet to develop. The approved project in this residential property depicts a large landscaped open space lot directly adjacent to this commercial property and it is approximately 90 feet in width, making the closest residence will be to this business approximately 110 feet away from the side of this building. Because of the existing conditions staff has found that these conditions are adequate for the operation of a drinking establishment and staff recommends approval of the proposed conditional use permit with the conditions listed in the staff report and I will stand for questions. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Thanks, Joe. Is there any questions for staff? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 5 of 40 Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal. Seal: There is no kitchen in there, but are they going to serve food of any type, meaning something that would be, you know, essentially brought in as a vendor. Dodson: As far as I'm aware, no. They -- they are only allowing people to bring their own food or they can -- they will allow people to order DoorDash and things like that and have the food brought to them, but they are not offering any food themselves, no. Seal: Okay. And is there any provision in here that prohibits them from doing that in the future if they wanted to, setting up a small sandwich bar or a vending place or something like that? Dodson: The specific use standards do not speak to that specifically. However, if they were to add or get into where they are considered a restaurant, the parking requirements will change and that's going to have to be re-evaluated at that point. Seal: Okay. Thank you. Dodson: You are welcome. Fitzgerald: Questions from staff? Parsons: Commissioners -- Commissioners if I could just elaborate on that a little bit more, please. Fitzgerald: Yeah. Go ahead, Bill. Parsons: So, yeah, certainly if the applicant is having a special event or wanted to have some outdoor activities there through a temporary use process, they can go to the clerk's office and have some vendors show up in the parking lot and -- and do that on an occasional basis through the TUP process in the clerk's office. So, food is an option for sure moving forward, but, again, depending on whether it's a permanent solution or a temporary solution, the code would allow for both of those in this instance. Dodson: Thank you, Bill. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, did you have any follow up from that? Seal: No. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Okay. Any additional questions for Joe? Commissioner Cassinelli. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 6 of 40 Cassinelli: I had to take myself off mute there. Yeah. What's the -- what's the occupancy of the building itself? Dodson: Well, my understanding is the occupancy is 52 people. Cassinelli: Okay. Dodson: It's 1,500 square feet, so -- Cassinelli: On a -- on a multi-tenant building such as this how is parking distributed? Right now there is 43 spots. Is that for the entire building? Dodson: Yes, sir. The 43 spots are for the entire building. The whole building itself is approximately 9,000 square feet, which would only require I believe a little over 20 parking spaces for commercial uses. Code does not separate alcohol establishments or drinking establishments from general commercial. So, the required parking is still going to be one per 500 square feet. So, this suite is only 1,500 square feet. Technically they only need three spaces for their suite, but, obviously, you know, drinking establishments are usually more intense, but they would meet the code requirements and they -- the building, when it received CZC approval, has exceeded the UDC requirements for parking. Cassinelli: Okay. If another eating establishment moved into this and, then, they added a kitchen, I mean that could kind of -- do you ever see them -- this -- this whole building exceeding that number of 43? I will ask it that way. Dodson: It is difficult to speculate, I will admit, sir. If every single one of them became restaurants, yes, there would be, admittedly, some issues with parking. There are some shared parking around this area because of the commercial neighborhood zone that it is in, but that is something that I noted in my staff report and we are aware that that will have to be re-evaluated, whether that means speaking with the property owner themselves and saying that you need to add additional parking, that is a possibility that staff is aware of. Parsons: Commissioners, if I may. Fitzgerald: Go ahead, Bill. Parsons: So, even if this whole building were to convert to a restaurant, code would still only required 36 parking spaces and they are at 43. So, even in the worst case scenario under the current designation -- or with a restaurant use, which is one parking stall for 250 square feet of gross floor area, the minimum code for parking requirement is 36 stalls and they are 43. So, they are already exceeding what the code requires. Cassinelli: Perfect. Thank you, Bill. Parsons: You're welcome. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 7 of 40 Fitzgerald: Any additional questions or follow up? Okay. Madam Clerk, can you unmute our applicant. Pogue: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Go ahead, Andrea. Pogue: Just a comment out there. This is a CUP application, so when you get to the point where you're making a motion, it is an approval, denial, or continuation. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. Weatherly: And, Mr. Chair, they should be unmuted now, I believe, and ready to go. Fitzgerald: And is that Rob that we are -- presenting today? Rob, are you with us? Johnson: Mr. Chair, this is Chris. He's on the line. He's unmuted. Fitzgerald: Okay. Rob or Carmen, are you hearing us or -- I think you are ready to go whenever you guys are ready. Johnson: They are raising a hand. I'm going to move them to panelists to see if we can -- Fitzgerald: Okay. Johnson: They are coming in the other direction now. Weatherly: Thanks, Chris. Fitzgerald: Rob and Carmen, can you hear us? You are still in a black hole. I -- thank you to all the public for understanding as we try to keep working in the City of Meridian, keeping everything moving when we are having -- always working through technical difficulties, so want to make sure we get our applicant to be able to chat. Rob or Carmen, can you hear us or -- oh, I see you. We can't hear you. That's the challenge. Johnson: Get response if nothing else. Fitzgerald: We see your smiling faces, we just can't talk to you. Holland: Mr. Chair, is there another call in number that they could call into? Johnson: Sorry. This is Chris. I'm going to put that up on the screen. One moment. Fitzgerald: Hold on one second, we will hopefully get you guys squared away here. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 8 of 40 Cassinelli: Maybe they have the draft on, instead of the hearing, you know. It's important times now. Fitzgerald: Chris, next steps. What do you want to do? Are we working on it? Johnson: Got it on the screen right now. Fitzgerald: Okay. Carmen, can you see that number? Okay. Commissioner Cassinelli, can you do a sock puppet for me? Bienapfl: Can you hear us now? Fitzgerald: Yes. Bienapfl: Okay. Okay. R.Bienapfl: We are here. Fitzgerald: Well, thank you for your patience. We appreciate you guys being here this evening. Would love to hear your thoughts and give us your rundown on what's taking place in your application. Go ahead. If you could give us your name and your address for the record. Bienapfl: Rob and Carmen Bienapfl. Address is 549 East Peach Spring, Meridian. 83646. Fitzgerald: Perfect. And go right ahead. The floor is yours. Bienapfl: Well, you know, Joseph really pretty much summed it up in the staff report. He's right about -- we have been operating for about a month before we had to shut down for COVID. We are still serving to go cans only. Customers come in. We are -- you know, we are anxious to get going -- you know, get going again and get open again. The neighborhood has been real receptive to us and I feel that we, you know, had a -- created a nice environment for people to gather and enjoy some craft beer. R.Bienapfl: Something within walking distance of their homes. Bienapfl: Right. Right. Really don't have much more to add. I'm open to any -- we are open to any questions. Fitzgerald: Well, we really appreciate -- I'm sorry for the circumstances of opening and, then, having to deal with what you guys are dealing with. I think we are all in that situation right now and so we want to get you guys squared away as soon as possible, but I will -- any questions for the applicant? Cassinelli: Mr. Chair? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 9 of 40 Fitzgerald: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I'm curious about the name. It seems to tie in with your last name. Bienapfl: It does. So, yeah. In German our last name actually means good apple, so -- when -- my son came up with that. We couldn't come up with a very creative name. Must be our age or something. So, yeah, we kind of threw a lot of people, though. They thought we were only going to have ciders. Were kind of surprised when they came in and saw that the majority of the beverages that we serve was our beers, but we do have some ciders as well. But, yeah, everyone asks about the name. Fitzgerald: Very good. Any additional questions? Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal. Seal: Just a quick question on the -- do you guys know which phase you are going to be able to reopen with? Bienapfl: It sounds like four. I did have some questions as to, you know, the true definition of a bar, but I don't know if we will get that answered or not. Restaurants and diners it sounds like are going before us, providing every -- everything goes as planned. But right now it looks like we are in the last stage. Seal: Okay. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Any additional questions? Well, Rob and Carmen, we really appreciate you being here tonight. We will -- if there is any public testimony we will let you guys close, if there is any comments or questions to come back around. So, hang on the line with us for just a second and, then, we will be back to you guys. Bienapfl: Okay. Thank you. R.Bienapfl: Thank you. Fitzgerald: Thank you. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone that's signed up to testify? Weatherly: Mr. Chair, we have one person signed in. Kevin Ross on the line. I'm going to go ahead and unmute him now. Fitzgerald: Okay. Kevin, can you hear us? Ross: Sure can. How are you tonight? Fitzgerald: Good, sir. How are you? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 10 of 40 Ross: Doing very well. Fitzgerald: Please state your name and your address for the record and the floor is yours when you are ready, sir. Ross: My name is Kevin Ross and I reside at 1545 East Handel Court in Meridian. I don't have anything much to say. I do want to say that Good Apple Taphouse has been a -- has played a big pivotal part in my wife and I's move to Idaho. It has allowed us to meet a lot of our neighbors in the surrounding community. It has also allowed us to venture out a little bit more, meet new people, and because of that I have actually been supporting a lot more local small businesses. So, I think that this -- this operation has definitely helped the local economy and allowed me to get a better feel for Meridian and the surrounding area, so -- Fitzgerald: Perfect. Ross: Thank you. Fitzgerald: Thank you very much for being here and being a part of that -- of a community that's supportive of a -- kind of a local effort to connect small businesses and I love that and welcome to Idaho. Madam Clerk, do we have anyone else? Weatherly: No one else signed up, Mr. Chair. Fitzgerald: Okay. Is there anyone on the attendee list that would like to raise their hand and let us know that you want to testify on this application? Or chime in. Hearing none -- sorry, Rob and Carmen, do you have -- do you have anything else you would like to add for us? Bienapfl: We do not. Thank you. Fitzgerald: We greatly appreciate your time tonight and with that can I get a motion to close the public hearing? McCarvel: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am. McCarvel: I move we close the public hearing on H-2020-0036. Holland: Second. Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to close public hearing on Good Apple Taphouse, H-2020-0036. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 11 of 40 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Fitzgerald: Well, the application is properly before the Commission. Anyone want to kick it off? Cassinelli: I will jump in, Mr. Chair. Fitzgerald: Go ahead, Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I have -- I haven't been in. I have driven by, seeing -- it's a nice looking building. It seems like a perfect fit for the -- the neighborhood over there. I don't think there is anything else within a mile or -- or so in either direction that would serve as a -- as a little neighborhood gathering spot, so it sounds like a perfect spot for the -- for the neighborhood there and I'm all in favor. Fitzgerald: Thanks, Commissioner. Additional comments? Pitzer: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Pitzer, go right ahead, ma'am. Pitzer: I, too, have driven by that and I saw the outside patio and there were -- there were a few people sitting around outside and it looked like a very nice establishment and I, too, am in favor. Fitzgerald: Thank you. Commissioner Holland, go right ahead. Holland: I think it's a -- a great looking application and I wish we had more of those kind of things in Meridian. So, I think great welcome to them after they are able to reopen and look forward to having them in the community. Fitzgerald: Perfect. Any other comments? Commissioner Seal? Seal: Mr. Chair, just would like to echo what's out there already. So, it looks like, you know, a good application, good -- good fit, good use. Glad all the parking considerations got taken care of. So, welcome to the neighborhood and be excited to be a patron. Holland: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland. Holland: It seems that everybody seems pretty enthusiastically positive, so I'm going to move us forward with a motion. Fitzgerald: Perfect. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 12 of 40 Holland: After approving -- or after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend approval of file number H-2020-0036 for Good Apple Taphouse as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of April 23rd, 2020, with no modifications. Actually, we are not recommending approval. I'm sorry. We are approving the conditional use permit request. It was in the -- in the script wrong. Seal: Second. Pogue: I tried to give you a heads up, but that's -- Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to approve file number H-2020-0036. And, Madam Clerk, can you, please, call the roll. Roll call: Holland, yea; Seal, yea; McCarvel, yea; Pitzer, yea; Grove, yea; Cassinelli, yea; Fitzgerald, yea. Fitzgerald: Motion passes. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Fitzgerald: Rob and Carman, we wish you the best. We hope this thing gets a -- it's expedient and you guys get back to serving the community. I used to live over there and I think I -- I'm bummed that I don't live closer now. So, good luck. We wish you the best. And I will come see you, too, even though I don't live nearby anymore. But we wish you the best and thanks for being patient as we deal with COVID, but also the application challenges along the way. So, we wish you the best and good luck. Stay healthy. Bienapfl: Thank you. C. Public Hearing for McKay Farm Subdivision (H-2020-0030) by Fairbourne Development, LLC, Located Near the Half Mile Mark on the West Side of S. Eagle Rd. Between E. Amity Rd. and E. Lake Hazel Rd. 1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 10.5 acres of land with an R-8 zoning district, and 2. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 42 building lots and 9 common lots. Fitzgerald: Okay. Moving on. Next item on our agenda is the McKay Farm Subdivision, H-2020-0030, and let's start with the staff report. Dodson: Thank you, Commissioner Fitzgerald. Appreciate it. Okay. Get the presentation going. Thank you. Okay. The request before you is for annexation and zoning of 10.5 acres of land with an R-8 zoning district and preliminary plat consisting of Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 13 of 40 42 building lots and nine common lots as proposed as one single phase. Of the nine common lots four will be common drives. Currently on site is an existing home and related farm buildings. All structures will be demolished and both existing accesses to Eagle Road are going to be closed upon development. And go to slide -- yes. Okay. That's the preliminary plat. Due to the size of the property, ten and a half acres, this development is required to provide ten percent minimum open space and at least one amenity. The applicant has proposed 1.15 acres of qualified open space, which is approximately 10.9 percent, exceeding the minimum requirements. The open space is a combination of landscape pathways -- sorry. Landscaped parkways throughout the entire development and a large open spaced lot near the center of the project that, essentially, serves as a pocket park. The open spaced lot itself is over 16,000 square feet and does not include the parkways around it. Within this open space lot the applicant has proposed a picnic area with shade structures meeting the one site amenity requirement. Staff would like to note here that the -- the open space does barely meet the minimum. However, it is going to function as a -- as a pocket park and considering a lot of open space that other developers try to pass off as usable open space, this -- this will be usable as it is a very large open area for the residents to use. The applicant has also submitted conceptual elevations, the proposed single family homes for this subdivision. The conceptual elevations are combinations of stone and lap siding, architectural elements. In addition, all of the conceptual elevations do show single story structure, but staff is unaware of any desire by the applicant to only build single story structure. Therefore, staff has not included any such condition in the required DA. Development Agreement. Staff does note that all homes abutting Eagle Road will be required to show proof of adequate modulation and articulation across building planes prior to receiving building permit approval because of their location against an arterial roadway. The project is proposed with one public access through the development, due to ACHD and city policies regarding access points to arterial roadways. As noted, the subject site abuts South Eagle Road, a major arterial, and resides too close to an existing intersection, the Taconic and Eagle Road intersection. The city's Comprehensive Plan encourages development that will utilize existing local and collector street infrastructure in lieu of additional access points on arterial roadways. Residents in this subdivision would enter and leave the property via extension of East Mardia Street into this development. The street resides currently in Sky Mesa Commons, an existing subdivision directly to the west of this development. There would be more than one local street through Sky Mesa Commons by which residents in this development could access South Montague Way. South Montague Way is the closest and most logical local street to access East Taconic Drive, which is the collector roadway that connects to South Eagle Road. As you can tell by these arrows on that I'm not an artist. In order to develop more than 30 homes on one public access the applicant has proposed an emergency-only access as shown in the northeast corner of the property. The emergency access will also serve as a common driveway for three buildable lots. The Meridian Fire Department and ACHD have reviewed and approved the location of this emergency only access to Eagle Road. As with all proposed development in this area, school capacity is a point of discussion. West Ada did provide staff with a report noting their continued concern over school enrollment and capacity. The three closest schools to this site are Hillsdale Elementary, Sien -- or sorry. Victory Middle and Mountain View. Hillsdale Elementary is currently capped and is no longer Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 14 of 40 accepting additional students, so elementary age students in this development will be bused to Sienna Elementary School. Both Sienna Elementary and Victory Middle School are over capacity at this time and Mountain View is currently not at capacity. We did have one person write in and is opposed to the project -- or I should say opposed to the existing vehicular access. He is Todd Tucker with Boise Hunter Homes. He is -- has concerns with the single point of access of East Mardia Street and the emergency access onto Eagle Road. He would basically like them switched. In addition, he had concerns over the ACHD estimate of cost for -- for them committing to -- the shared cost of the interim intersection at Taconic and Eagle Road. Other than that, staff is not aware of any other written testimony. Pursuant to the conditions of approval and required findings noted in the staff report and with the requirement of a development agreement, staff does recommend approval of the requested annexation and zoning and -- and requested preliminary plat and I will stand for questions. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Thanks, Joe. Are there questions for staff? Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal. Seal: Just on the -- and looking at the correspondence for -- from the person with Sky Mesa there, essentially, I mean is there -- as I read through it it's almost like he did not -- nobody let them know, essentially. I mean for -- that they needed to have some correspondence in on this. Is there going to be an issue with that moving forward as far as them being notified properly? Just trying to cover that base at this point. Dodson: Thank you for your question, sir. My understanding is that all of the relevant property owners were, you know, given note -- appli -- sorry. Adequate notice. I'm not aware of any noticing issues or anything with that. I -- I may -- the way I interpret it is that he may have been wanting to know when the ACHD staff report came out and that is not something that I'm aware of is -- is noticed by ACHD, but I -- I do not know for sure. That is part of the public record and I did direct him to the public records review of their staff report, but he did still make his points. Seal: Okay. Thank you. Dodson: You're welcome. Fitzgerald: Additional questions? Pitzer: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Pitzer. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 15 of 40 Pitzer: Yes. Joe, did -- was -- was there any consideration about putting connectivity to the south parcel as well? This only looks like it has one ingress and egress. Was there any consideration for that? Dodson: Commissioner Pitzer and Commission, originally -- a little bit of history with this. This is the last remaining parcel in this area to receive entitlement. So, originally this was not intended to be a residential development, it was originally going to be some type of commercial development. Possibly storage. And so when we entitled -- when the city entitled the -- all the parcels around it of the Sky Mesa, as well as the southern parcel below, access to this property was not given priority and so -- because the -- the intent was that they were going to have access onto Eagle Road because of the commercial, not a residential product. Therefore, none of these subdivisions added additional stub streets in -- into this parcel. We did, just in case, thankfully, the -- add into the provisions for Sky Mesa Commons to the west that if this development were to develop as a residential, then, they would have to extend the East Mardia Street into it and that is why there is only one ingress-egress access point to this property. It just, unfortunately, was some bad timing with -- with development. Strader: Great. Thank you. Thank you for that historical. I appreciate that. Dodson: Hundred percent. You are welcome. Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Cassinelli. Seal: Actually, this is -- Fitzgerald: Oh. Commissioner Seal. Sorry. Seal: I'm getting -- can we just bring up the -- the map that showed the -- essentially the traffic flow, just so -- to get a better idea of what that looks like matched up with everything else? Thank you. Fitzgerald: Additional questions for staff? Cassinelli: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Joe, what -- so, what is ACHD's objection to another point of access off Eagle Road? There is -- almost across the street from the southernmost tip of that property there is an East Grayson Drive. Dodson: Yes, sir. That is correct there. There is another access on the east side of Eagle Road there for the subdivision I guess southeast of this and, then, you have the Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 16 of 40 Taconic and Eagle intersection. My understanding is that this southern edge of this property would not line up with that other access across Eagle Road and so they would be offset and, then, you run into all the ACHD requirements about distances between access points on arterials and it just wasn't going to work. Not with the major intersection of Taconic and Eagle. That is the understanding that I got from the ACHD staff report. Cassinelli: Did anybody propose a -- just a right-in, right-out as another point of access? Dodson: From my understanding that was not proposed by the applicant, nor staff. No, sir. Cassinelli: And final question. Is that something that -- that we could condition for? And maybe that's a question for Bill. Dodson: I will defer to the code, which it -- it would have to have City Council waiver in order to have an additional access point onto an arterial. Our Comprehensive Plan actually -- I guess it wants the least amount of connections, especially residential connections, to these types of arterial roadways. Cassinelli: Okay. Pitzer: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Pitzer. Pitzer: So, Joe, if this were a commercial project they would allow the access from Eagle Road in that -- is that what I'm understanding? But because it's residential they are not allowing it? Dodson: From my understanding that -- that is the way it was planned originally and as you know it's not zoned yet, so they could come in with generally any product that would meet the underlying Comprehensive Plan and I -- I don't have enough history on the older provisions of what this product would have been to adequately answer that and I apologize, but they -- from what I understand they would -- per -- ACHD is going to prefer no access points onto the arterial. Fitzgerald: And, Bill, do you want to provide some history on the -- on the previous entitlements around it? Parsons: Yeah. Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, I think Joe laid it out pretty well for you. At the time that Sky Mesa came through and all of that was getting entitled, I had conversations with the applicant early on and there was indications from him that this would be a self storage facility, given the amount of residential that was occurring in the area. He and I talked about the option of him having to do a Comprehensive Plan map amendment and, then, annex in what they commercial zone based on that Comprehensive Plan map amendment application that he would submit and go through Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 17 of 40 that conditional use process. It was anticipated that if he did go through that process he would be seeking an access to Eagle Road because of the storage -- the office for the storage facility would be off of Eagle Road and typically that proposed use generates less traffic than your normal commercial business, so it may have been a good chance that ACHD may have granted him access for a storage unit off of Eagle Road. Now that we have -- so, when Sky Mesa came through that information was shared with the applicant and he was able to go on public record and negotiate an either/or scenario in the conditions of approval with the Sky Mesa project, which said if this is commercial there wouldn't be a road, except an access from the west and the access would come from Eagle, or they would stub a street and that's where we are at now and now it's not going -- not proposed for commercial, he is proposing a residential subdivision, so per the conditions of approval for the Sky Mesa project, that road has to be extended into that site and provide access to this property in accordance with our UDC standards. I think this Commission is very well aware of -- we try to prohibit access to arterial roadways when local street is -- streets are available and get interconnectivity with adjacent subdivisions and that's what this applicant is doing, he is complying with what our code wants them to do and what the Comprehensive Plan encourages. We also encouraged both this applicant and the adjacent property owners to work together on a shared access to Eagle Road and they could not come to terms or an agreement on how that would function or work and so, therefore, again, we are back at -- this is the plan that they are bringing forward. It's in accordance with the approval -- conditions of approval with the surrounding development and in accordance with -- and this project is in accordance with our UDC and our Comprehensive Plan. So, from staff's perspective there is no need for an additional access point to Eagle Road and as Joe has mentioned to you, ACHD does not support another access, because there will be two roundabouts, one proposed at the inter -- this project would be sandwiched in between two roundabouts, one at the Lake Hazel intersection and, then, one at -- I can't read the street. At the mid mile. But there is a roundabout planned there, so you don't want to congest the road any further by having more access points and so given the limited amount of residential units proposed for this development, the surrounding street network that has been approved with this development and the adjacent developments can serve the 47 additional lots. So, again, there is no need to have additional connections to Eagle Road with this development. It's all been appropriately planned to intermingle in or interconnect with one another. Fitzgerald: Thanks, Bill. Thanks for the background. That helps. Additional questions for staff? Grove: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Grove. Grove: I have a question regarding the Eagle Road expansion and what impact that would have with the -- what's planned on the -- the east side of the development. If we can go to the next slide. I was wondering if that -- if I'm seeing this correctly on how far in it's supposed to go and is that -- are we planned -- is it planned to -- or that second set of lines, sorry, where it's expanding to or where it currently is? It's hard to tell on this. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 18 of 40 Dodson: Understood. Yes. So, the plat does show additional right of way given to -- dedicated to this -- their green area here on Lot 12 is the full 35 -- or sorry. Yeah. It's actually a 35 foot buffer, which they only are required a 25 foot, but they do have a 35 foot buffer, plus the additional right of way. And, then, the next -- where it actually has the word South Eagle Road in it are -- that's the existing right of way. So, they are -- they are accommodating for additional right of way. Grove: Okay. Thank you. Dodson: You're welcome. Fitzgerald: Any additional questions? Thank you, Joe. Appreciate it. Is the applicant available, Madam Clerk or Chris? Mr. Clerk. Johnson: Mr. Chair, yes, he is unmuted and available to talk if he wishes. S.Johnson: I'm here. Fitzgerald: Hey, Sam. Mr. Johnson, please give your name and your address for the record and the floor is yours, sir. S.Johnson: Okay. My name is Sam Johnson. Address is 2701 East Pine Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. Appreciate hearing this application tonight and appreciate as always working with staff on -- on applications like this. So, I can expound a little bit on some of these points of discussion. Staff has done a great job. Early on when we acquired this property we discussed the ideas of a -- of a storage unit, but, ultimately, came to the conclusion that we would rather do residential. We felt like there was quite a bit of storage out there already, so we have come before you with this application. When we met with staff for our pre-application meetings ACHD and the city, we had an access to Eagle Road and as well as an access to Sky Mesa on Mardia. So, we proposed that early on, but in those pre-application meetings it was discussed and strongly suggested that we needed to get rid of that Eagle Road access by both the city staff and ACHD staff. So, we complied with that desire and moved forward with this application. The single access does -- it is a long cul-de-sac or a dead end road, but we feel like that that emergency access that the Fire Department has approved, as well as ACHD, they are okay with that emergency access to Eagle Road and also the traffic that this will generate and put it through the local streets of Sky Mesa. They believe that that will -- those roads will adequately handle this additional traffic. We support the staff report. We don't have any major -- or any -- really any issues with the staff report. We agree with all conditions. The same with the conditions that ACHD's put on this property. One point of discussion. I guess the buffer that is along Eagle Road, yes, there is a requirement to add 48 feet of additional right of way. That right of way line is shown just behind the sidewalk on this plan that you see before you. We -- right behind that sidewalk is -- we are -- will be required to bury the Grimmett Lateral and the easement for that lateral was so wide -- basically 20 feet wide and so a 25 foot buffer on that, that would not allow any trees or anything but grass on that -- on that buffer, so we bumped it up to 35 feet wide, so we Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 19 of 40 can at least get trees back there against the property line and -- and not just have a blank lawn. Other than that -- oh, I do -- I did in our neighborhood meeting talk to a couple of the neighbors who live right to the west of this -- of our property. Now, new residents of Sky Mesa. And I -- whether this needs to be part of the development agreement or not, but we agreed to limit the three lots to single stories. Staff mentioned earlier in our application we failed to show any elevations that were two stories, but we -- we don't have any plans to limit everything to a single story, except for we will commit and be good neighbors, so we can -- we will limit single story homes to Lot 32, Lot 40, and Lot 50 of Block 1. Other than that, we agree with the staff report and stand for any questions. Fitzgerald: Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Are there questions for the applicant? Pitzer: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Pitzer. Pitzer: Yes. I didn't see anything in the staff report. Is this subdivision going to be a home ownership subdivision or is it going to be a rental -- rental site? S.Johnson: Right now our plan is to sell it to local builders and we don't have any plans to build the houses ourselves, so we were -- we typically limit the rental -- you know, other communities that we have done we have limited the rentals to not be allowed for at least a year or two after the subdivision is -- is established, but we have not had any discussions about restricting that one way or the other. Pitzer: So, this could be sold to like a Home America where they rent every home? But -- but you don't foresee that? S.Johnson: Theoretically, yes, we could sell it to them if the price was right. Did not -- had not foreseen that or been approached, but, theoretically, it could if we chose to do so. Pitzer: Okay. Thank you. Cassinelli: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Sam, I have got a couple questions for you. Can you repeat the lots that you are intending to make single story? S.Johnson: Sure. Lots 32, to the northeast -- sorry. Northwest corner. Lot 40 and Lot 50. Those are the three lots that side -- have really long sides and we will have smaller setbacks to that shared property line to the west and so those three lots we will commit to single story. Correct. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 20 of 40 Cassinelli: What about the -- what about the lots in between 34 through 38? S.Johnson: We could certainly consider that. Those will have a larger setback in the rear of the building -- or rear of the -- of the lot. I believe the city setback is 12 feet. It might be even 15. I can't remember for sure. Bill might be able to answer that. But we can consider those five additional lots. Cassinelli: Okay. And I have another -- another question is -- is one of the concerns from Boise Hunter Homes was the sharing of the expense of the traffic signal I believe at Taconic. Their -- their ask was for just under 49,000 to share based on the number of homes. What are your thoughts on -- on that? S.Johnson: I was just notified of that request today when I noticed that they submitted their -- their testimony and I trust ACHD knows what they are doing and knows how to assess proper fees to each developer and -- and stick with their recommendation. I have not dove into the cost of a roundabout or signal, but they conditioned the 14,400 and the -- you know, I -- I would prefer to stick with their number, obviously, because it's less, but also I believe they are the agency that has -- Cassinelli: Okay. Holland: Mr. Chair? Cassinelli: And, then, I had -- if I could sneak one more in there. Sam, you made a comment about -- we did go down the road of -- of storage and commercial on that. You said there is quite a bit of storage in the area. I'm not seeing a whole lot. But if you want to comment on that I would love to hear it. And that's my last question. S.Johnson: Oh. In the -- sure. In the immediate area there is not much storage right now. There is -- at the time we made the decision there was a large storage unit over on Meridian Road and I believe Amity or Lake Hazel that was proposed or approved. I can't remember which. But we ultimately decided to go with residential here that it's -- let me back up even further. The history when I was asked -- when I went to a neighborhood meeting for a subdivision nearby years ago, we had just acquired this property, and an engineer asked what our plans were and I said, well, you know -- you know as well as anybody there is a million things we could do or maybe ten things we could do per code. Storage units is one. Houses is another. And for some reason storage units stuck and -- and spread like wildfire that we were doing storage units. So, we certainly considered it, but it was -- we never went to the point of drawing up any kind of plans and a site plan and a layout, because at that point we decided to go the route of residential. Cassinelli: Thank you. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland, go right ahead, ma'am. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 21 of 40 Holland: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I was just going to make a quick comment about the -- the green space and, first of all, thank you for putting it in there the way that you did, instead of doing a bunch of random pieces that didn't really flow well together. But one question for you is about amenities. It says in the staff report that you are looking at doing kind of a sheltered picnic area, but was there any consideration towards doing a tot lot or some sort of playground equipment there? S.Johnson: Yeah. We -- we originally thought that the -- that larger open space would count as an amenity, so that we would have two, but it didn't meet the -- the code technically, so that was eliminated. We wrestled with whether it's a tot lot and/or picnic area. We could -- we would certainly -- can entertain adding something like that or -- or swapping the picnic area, but we certainly looked at all options and -- and thought that the picnic area might be more useful for everyone and a tot lot would really only be used for little children and there is a lot of green space to run around on for everyone. Holland: Thank you. Fitzgerald: Any additional questions for the applicant? Commissioner Seal. Seal: Mr. Chair, yes. Just a quick comment and just looking at some of the aerial pictures that I see, it looks like Sky Mesa basically they are -- the roads that you would access coming down into cul-de-sacs right now, there is no roads that are developed there. Is that -- is that true and how are you going to move forward with that? S.Johnson: Yeah. So, Sky Mesa has -- does not abut -- or the road that is one of their last phases I'm told will bring connectivity to our property. So, we are kind of at their mercy waiting for that -- that -- that project to build out and, then, bring the road and amenity -- or the utilities to us. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, do you have follow up? Seal: Yeah. I mean is there a criteria that they have to start that at any given time? I mean I -- I guess my concern is if -- if they are opposed to this and I think there is a financial deficit to them, I mean, you know, if they wanted to not be nice they could, basically, just not build that out and that would landlock you literally. I just wonder if you have had discussions with them on how that's going to work. S.Johnson: Yes. We have shared the same concerns because that is out of our control. They will -- with part of their subdivision there is the standard requirement and time limit to file the next final plat, so they can't hold out too long if they decided to do so. The -- when we were in discussions with them they had not acquired the property to the south yet, which is Sky Mesa Highlands. They -- so, that will -- that will add a couple more phases to their project that we are a little at the mercy of their timing and, unfortunately, that's where we are going to have to be -- Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, do you have any follow up there? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 22 of 40 Seal: No, I don't. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Grove, go right ahead, sir. Grove: So, piggybacking on that, what -- what is the projected timeline for this project? Like what is the ideal situation? Like when -- when are we looking at this coming online? S.Johnson: That's a good question. I think ideally if we could -- once this is approved and we are able to move forward with final plat process and construction without delay, then, we would be building this out probably a year from now with Sky Mesa with -- every time I have talked to them about their -- their plans have been a little bit fluid as far as what phases are going when and they -- they do have quite a bit of new lots waiting to be built on and until they burn through that inventory they will -- they will, then, start the process to build that next phase or that phase that's connected to us or where ever they -- where ever they choose to build in their project. So, ideally, I would start a year from now. At the rate that the market was is going I would imagine that within two years they would have all of their product built and -- and I would have then connectivity. Fitzgerald: Any additional questions for the applicant? Pitzer: Yes. Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Go right ahead, ma'am. Pitzer: Yes. So -- so, what I'm hearing is -- is that all your construction vehicles, et cetera, are going to come down the new road and -- and not utilize Eagle at all, so you are having to wait until Sky Mesa roads go through before you can start any kind of road construction or site -- you know, water, sewer, et cetera. S.Johnson: There is -- Commissioner Pitzer, there is -- there is some work that we could do prior to that, but the -- typically we like to get in there and get started on something and not have to be -- you know, do it in multiple phases within the construction itself. We would like to consider -- discuss with ACHD and the city using that emergency access as a potential construction access during the infrastructure, but there is -- there is only so much we can do and mainly that's just digging out the roads to subgrade prior to having sewer and water coming through the Sky Mesa project. Pitzer: Okay. Thank you very much. Fitzgerald: Any additional questions at this time? Okay. Hearing none, Mr. Johnson, thank you very much. We will take public testimony and, then, we will ask you to close, sir, if that works. S.Johnson: Great. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 23 of 40 Fitzgerald: Thank you. Madam Clerk, do we have -- or Mr. Clerk. Chris, do we have anyone on the line to testify? Weatherly: Mr. Chair, we do have one person. Travis Hunter. He signed up and he is unmuted now. Fitzgerald: Mr. Hunter, can you hear us, sir? Hunter: Yes. Can you guys hear me? Fitzgerald: Yes. Please give us your name and your address for the record and, then, the floor is yours. Hunter: Sure thing. Yeah. Good evening, Commissioners. Thank you. My name is Travis Hunter. Address 729 South Bridgeway Place I'm with Boise Hunter Homes, the developer of the neighboring community to McKay Farms. Really with this -- with this project we only have two concerns to condense it down for you. Our first is that the McKay Farm Subdivision pushes a hundred percent of its traffic through our neighborhood you can see in this exhibit. I guess that's just the process of what happened and if we have to accept that at this point we can. The second concern is that McKay Farms is piggybacking onto the community amenities that we have built. You guys can see the green spaces on the map. In this picture are the community amenities that we have constructed and the second slide, if you could change it over to the second slide. It's a picture of our newly constructed second community center, which includes a basketball court, soccer field, playground and pool, which the residents of McKay Farm we think will undoubtably use. They may not have access to the pool without a keycard, but the other facilities will -- will likely be used. If you could change it to the third slide, please. So, last month we had approved the Sky Mesa Highlands Subdivision, which was containing 74 lots and ACHD had conditioned us to build a traffic signal at Eagle and Taconic. In working with ACHD we had to asked them if we could rather contribute a defined dollar amount to the signal, instead of constructing the signal ourselves, as we did not know what the construction costs of the signal would be. They did not accommodate us with that request and they conditioned us to build a signal. So, working with a contractor, who just built us a traffic signal six months ago, we received an estimate of 207,000 dollars minimum. McKay Farms is currently conditioned to contribute 14,000 or 343 dollars per lot to the traffic signal. Next slide, please. The lower two suggestions on what we would find to be an equitable contribution to the light -- the first solution you could see the estimated minimum cost of the light is 207,000 dollars and we would get to use a previous contribution of 120,000 dollars towards it, leaving us to bear the cost of 87,000 dollars, divided by 75 lots, that's 1,166 dollars per lot. So, 1,166 dollars per lot times the 42 lots in McKay Subdivision would be 49,000 dollars. If that -- if people wanted to commit to, we have another one. Next slide. The second equitable solution would be to have McKay Farms conditioned to pay 36 percent of the actual cost that Sky Mesa Highlands will bear in the construction of this traffic signal. After the cost comes in you can see through the math on the slide that this would be an appropriate pro rata share compared to exactly what Sky Mesa Highlands has been conditioned with. So, we have reached out to Sam Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 24 of 40 Johnson requesting cost sharing on this and I have had no response. So, we appreciate you helping us in requesting an inequitable contribution to the traffic signal. Thank you for your time. Fitzgerald: Is there any question -- Cassinelli: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: -- for Mr. Hunter? Yes, go ahead, Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Yeah. Travis, on your math there what does the 36 percent work out to? I think it's what -- would be 36 percent of 80 something thousand? Hunter: Yes. That -- that would be the -- that would actually be the same math being about -- it will also -- this -- this -- Cassinelli: You're cutting out. I can't hear you. Hunter: Can you guys hear me clearly now? Fitzgerald: That's better. Hunter: Yeah. So, the area is undefined. It is undefined. Fitzgerald: So, Travis, I do I have a couple of questions there. So, I mean you guys built out most of Sky Mesa as well, so to only put it on Sky Mesa Highlands, there is -- there is benefits going to your -- your other lots within Sky Mesa, too. So, I'm -- I understand your concerns and I get that, but there is benefits of your current homeowners and lots that you are building out not just in the Highlands, but in Sky Mesa as well. So, that's benefiting you guys. So, it can't be just on the 75 lots. Hunter: I was -- so, also, A, we are all subject to capacity fees. So, with Sky Mesa for the Eagle and Taconic roundabout that will be ultimately built, we had to -- we had to move the Grimmett Lateral at a cost of 740,000 dollars, which we have just completed to accommodate the roundabout access that we will all be using. On top of that, we have been conditioned not with -- not with Sky Mesa Highlands, but with -- with Sky Mesa we have contributed an additional 120,000 dollars towards the build out of the roundabout and, really, it's been an interesting saga with ACHD. So, Brighton and Hill Century Farm across just -- just east of our project, using the same intersection, has been required by ACHD to contribute nothing to the cost of the building of this roundabout. So, we have been left holding the bag to this intersection for a long time and we are just asking for a pro rata share. Fitzgerald: Additional question for the applicant? Does anybody have any questions? Not at this time? Mr. Hunter, we appreciate it. Thank you for being here. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 25 of 40 Hunter: Thank you. Fitzgerald: Madam Clerk, I know we don't have anybody signed up, but is there anyone else that we are aware of it that would like to testify? Weatherly: Mr. Chair, we don't have anybody currently, but if anybody's on the line that would like to speak they could raise their hand at this time. Fitzgerald: Is there -- Dodson: Commission, this is staff. Joe. Fitzgerald: Go ahead. Joe. Dodson: I just wanted to know -- and I might default to the more seasoned veterans here. I am not aware if the city is able to increase or -- or add cost to a development for something that is not ours, meaning the ACHD owned property. I just want to make that -- make that known. I apologize that they are -- they have been left holding the bag, but I don't know if that's something that the Commission can act on. Fitzgerald: Yeah. I think we are getting stuck in a spot where we are being asked to do something that we don't have control over. That's ACHD's domain and we don't really have the ability to change their calculation. So, I understand the situation Mr. Hunter's in, but that's not -- that's not our purview. So, I -- it's challenging to say the least and I appreciate your heads up, Joe. Thank you for that. I think we talked about that earlier. Dodson: You're welcome. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland -- Holland: Mr. Chair. Just a follow-up question for Joe. Is it something that we can condition that they would meet with ACHD and the Sky Mesa Subdivision to discuss that specific scenario and have that resolved before City Council, without getting into the weeds about what percentages or what amount they need to contribute? Dodson: Honestly, I would like to default to Bill on that, just because I'm not familiar enough with what ACHD and -- and these developers discussed on this. Bill, could you help me out. Parsons: Absolutely. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Holland. Dodson: You're very quiet, Bill. Just to let you know. Parsons: Yeah. Certainly you can ask to have the applicant and the adjacent property owner work together on an appropriate fee for that. I think that -- that gives them at least Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 26 of 40 30 days to get that figured out and if nothing changes we move forward and tell the Council nothing changes, but at least it gets the -- both parties to the table trying to come -- to at least have that discussion and find some sort of resolution. They may agree or may not agree, but at least they could do that. I think that would be the better solution than to -- as Joe alluded to, instead of saying, yeah, we want you to pay more -- more of your proportionate share. It's -- it's really -- like Joe said, it's an ACHD call. So, having both of those parties come together -- Dodson: I'm on a Zoom meeting with these people. Been talking to these people. Fitzgerald: Joe, you are -- you are on unmuted, sir. Dodson: Oh, I apologize. Fitzgerald: You are good. Thanks, Bill. Additional questions for staff? Is there anyone else in the public domain that would like to testify? Please raise your hand or hit star nine to unmute yourself, so we can -- and speak up. I see a Jimmy on there. Is there a -- you are unmuted, sir. Did you want to testify? Okay. Johnson: Mr. Chair, I believe that that person has no audio settings. That's why you are seeing it look unmuted. There is no audio at all for them. Fitzgerald: Got it. Thank you very much for the clarification. So, anyone else? Just going once. Okay. Mr. Johnson, would you like to close up, sir? I think if you -- Chris will unmute you and you can close -- or have you close it out. S.Johnson: Sure. Thank you, Commissioner Fitzgerald. I believe that ACHD has spoken through their staff report on what their belief of the pro rata share of that signal and those improvements should be to our project, so I -- today was the first day that I have ever heard from Boise Hunter Homes regarding any cost sharing or any -- any of this math that they are presenting tonight for additional cost sharing for that signal. The letter that they -- that they submitted yesterday -- last night at 10:00 o'clock -- 10:00 p.m., I was not aware that -- of any of those concerns until today. So, I agree with ACHD's staff report. They are -- they have their formulas and their calculations. I was not involved in any of those with them as they calculated that. We certainly sat down several times with Boise Hunter Homes to discuss the possibility of us -- of this plat joining the Sky Mesa plat -- or maybe not the plat, but at least the HOA and we wanted to discuss the options of paying our pro rata share of their pressure irrigation, of their clubhouse, and of their amenities, but was not given much of an opportunity to discuss that with them. They -- there is certainly an option -- you know, there is nothing stopping the neighbors if -- of this community to go and use some of the amenities of the neighborhoods anywhere in the valley. So, we are -- we were willing and still willing to participate and pay our pro rata share of amenities in Sky Mesa, but we were not given the opportunity to -- to even get further than just the idea. So, we stand by our community -- our application. Feel like it is fairly straightforward and the best that can be presented for this little in-fill project that's Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 27 of 40 surrounded by the -- the other subdivisions. So, we will stand for questions if there are any. Fitzgerald: Any additional questions for the applicant? Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, go ahead. Seal: Yeah. Just a -- I mean a question on -- I mean you guys -- it sounds like you are more than willing to contribute to, you know, different things and I can understand why a subdivision would be protective about some of its amenities to the community of people that live there, especially when you get into, you know, a big pool or clubhouse, things like that and I mean the difference that we are talking about as far as what ACHD is requiring you to pay and what they are recommending you pay is about 35,000 dollars. So, considering how locked in you are to their infrastructure and how long they can make you wait, I mean is there any wiggle on this between you two to come up with a better agreement to go to ACHD with? I mean instead of having the city and ACHD battle this out, it seems like everybody can get together and I -- and I realize the letter came in last minute and this is probably the first time you have to hear about it. However, it seems like for, you know, 35,000 dollars was a lot of money, but not in the grand scheme of building something like a subdivision. So, it seems like 35,000 dollars or some equivalent of that would be -- go a long ways in helping you to complete this project a lot sooner, realize the potential of income for that and move on. S.Johnson: Yeah, if they -- I'm willing to discuss it further, but, again, yeah, this was -- I am -- I am skeptical to go off of another developer's math without having the opportunity myself to go through the math and understand where ACHD came from and where this developer is coming from. So, again, very late notice on that concern of theirs and -- and all I -- I'm willing to sit down and discuss it with them, but, ultimately, ACHD has the jurisdiction and has assessed what they believe is a fair -- fair pro rata share and cost sharing. So, I would prefer to stick with their recommendation, but if -- I am also willing to meet with them and Boise Hunter if that is needed. Seal: Okay. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Additional questions? Commissioner Cassinelli, did you have a question? Cassinelli: No. I'm good. Thank you. Fitzgerald: Okay. Any additional comments or questions? Questions for staff? Mr. Johnson, we appreciate it. Thank you, sir. S.Johnson: Thank you. Fitzgerald: With that can I get a motion to close the public hearing? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 28 of 40 Seal: So moved. Cassinelli: Second. Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on file number H- 2020-0030. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Fitzgerald: Anybody want to take the first swing? Grove: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Grove. Grove: I just have a few quick thoughts and maybe I will jump back in later, but to start off I like in-fill. I don't have as many concerns as some might with the -- the one ingress- egress, especially if there is the emergency access. Not a big fan of common drives, but I understand why we need to have it in -- in this size of lot that they are working with. But my major concern is centered around timeline, even projecting out how far -- in regards to the school capacity. The three elementary schools that are in this area are severely overtaxed and without any bond going forward with West Ada that in the short term we don't -- I don't see a way out of making the situation worse by adding more homes in -- in this area and so I have some major reservations based on what impact this would have on -- on the schools in this area. Fitzgerald: Thanks, sir. Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal. Seal: I share the -- the same concern as far as the school capacities. I mean this one being such a small subdivision and it being in-fill and I mean it's no secret I'm a big proponent of let's not overburden the schools, which they are overburdened in this, but I would be willing to concede that for an in-fill project such as this that is so small and beyond that I actually like the way that the common area is laid out. You know, like was stated in the staff report a lot of people just -- a lot of subdivisions chop up little tiny places and call it common area, where this really consolidated that and gave -- gave a -- you know, the people in that subdivision a place to actually, you know, recreate. We have something like that -- like that very similar in our subdivision and it gets a ton of use there. It's -- there is a lot of kids out there playing in it all the time. So, I appreciate the way that that is laid out. Considering where -- considering that the -- the development is locked in as far as when they can develop by Sky Mesa and there is such a disagreement right now as far as the funding levels of it, I would almost think, you know, let's -- I -- my personal opinion is I would like to see it -- a continuance on this to allow them to get Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 29 of 40 together to go back to ACHD. So, essentially, our involvement is nil or none and so just suggesting that they kind of go back and kick the tires around a little bit. So, I just think that there is ample time in order to accommodate all of that to allow for a continuance, so that we can get a more solid answer from ACHD, who owns the infrastructure piece of this that is going to have to be ruled on in either way. That way somebody has to answer to it -- both of them get a solid answer on it and we can move forward with it. Fitzgerald: So, my only comment there is ACHD has ruled on it. They have a report and they have given you the report and so that's my challenge there, is we have to determine things based on information we have been given and ACHD has given their determination on this. So, we are asking them to deliberate on something they have already deliberated on. So, I mean I have no problem saying let's go down the road of send them back to ACHD before they go to Council, but asking you -- asking them to reconsider their own report, I think that's going down a road that we don't want to go down. Holland: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland. Holland: I think I would agree. I hear where Commissioner Seal is coming from with his concern. My thought is that if we do end up conditioning that we want the applicant to meet with ACHD and the Sky Mesa Subdivision development team, that we could condition that to happen between now and City Council and it's not something that would really change anything for us, because it's not going to change the layout of the subdivision, it's not going to be anything that has to come back before us, it's just a conversation of who is going to pay what. So, I don't think that really has much -- much weighting for us on what we are responsible for. I think if -- if it was going to go somewhere we can make that recommendation to them to have the consideration of reevaluating and see if there could be some compromise, but, again, you know, they have issued a report and, you know, they -- the applicant could be kind and come maybe to some middle ground to try and help the other applicant -- or try to help Sky Mesa out, but I don't think we can make it a requirement. A couple other thoughts since I have -- since I'm talking anyway. One question for staff. With the single story lots on 32, 40, and 50 being single story, is that already in the staff report or is that something we would need to condition? Dodson: Commissioner Holland, Commission, that is not something that's in the staff report. That was not in the narrative and nor was it technically in the application, but if that is what you guys would like to condition, then, you guys do have that authority. Holland: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Dodson: Uh-huh. Holland: My only other comments in general is I -- I like where the layout of the common lot is. Kind of central. I would like to see a tot lot there, because I think they are going to Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 30 of 40 have some school age children. So, it would be my recommendation that we ask them to put in an additional amenity and have a tot lot and the picnic area, but I don't know what other Commissioners think about that. I also hear the concerns about the school aged children, because all of our schools are overcrowded and I know it's -- it's challenging. It's hard to figure out which ones do you put the pause on and which ones do you keep moving forward. It's not a huge subdivision, because it's an in-fill project, but certainly every -- every home that's created with school children is an impact to the school system. So, I'm not sure exactly where I stand there either, but I think I would be comfortable with it still moving forward, because I think it's probably going to be a couple years before these are built out and, hopefully, by then we have got some other schools in process or some kids moving on to different schools and changing the numbers a little bit, but it's certainly tough. The only other comment I have is -- I always hate when there is these shared drives that have three or four houses on them. If there was any more than three houses I probably would have asked for a condition that we limit that. I would prefer to only see two houses off of a shared drive. I just -- I don't like how they work. I don't like how they look. It makes it difficult for trash days when you have got people bringing out two or three different carts and you got this one little corner to put them all on. So, that was one thing that I don't know that I need to condition, but just wanted to make it known. I always hate seeing those, even though I understand why they put them in there. That's it for now. Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am. Additional comments? Questions? McCarvel: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner McCarvel. McCarvel: Yeah. I, as well, with the in-fill, it -- it's one of the stronger things I have seen -- comments I have had or seen from -- with the schools as far as how far they are going to have to go, but, yeah, when I first looked at this was definitely the number of common drives, but on the other hand, I'm just -- I'm thinking that's the offset to having the nicer green space area. I guess that was in all -- the other things that are going on with ACHD and Sky Mesa, I think I would like to have them -- I would like to think that they could get to a place before City Council to work something out. I hate leaving it and going forward with so much yet unresolved -- or tension I guess between them. Fitzgerald: Additional comments? Pitzer: Mr. Chair? Cassinelli: Mr. Chair? Patty, go ahead. Fitzgerald: Go ahead, Commissioner Pitzer. Pitzer: Thank you. So, I -- I, too, am in favor of the large -- or common area in the middle. I think that was well thought out in such a small area. A tot lot would actually be good. If Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 31 of 40 these are the type of homes that are going to be housing children I think a tot lot would be almost essential. That being said, I do have a couple problems with the -- with the rest. The -- the construction access coming down from Eagle Road, I think -- I think is going to be a consideration, but the schools -- this is going to be single family housing -- could be all rental housing for all we know, which would forever change the flavor of the surrounding neighborhoods. I think this is -- I know that this is an in-fill, but I -- I think it may be premature. Maybe residential is not the most, you know, flavor of the day for this -- for this ten acre parcel. I don't know. I'm not -- not seeing all of it. There is so many issues between schools and -- and -- and -- and traffic that's going to be going through the next subdivision amenities. If we were going to move forward I would -- I would like to see us actually continue this application until the two parties could get together and -- and maybe say I'm going to use the amenities as an offset to the traffic light, but I think that they don't -- that they should be given the opportunity to at least continue. And that's my thoughts. Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am. Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Where to -- where to begin? I am going to echo my fellow Commissioners on one thing and that is the common drives. We are seeing more and more and more and more of those and -- and I will be blunt, I hate them. That's it. I just want to throw that out there. You know, it -- in-fill is tough. As I have -- as I have sat here and thought -- initially as I -- as I think storage is actually the best thing for this and as I have thought a little bit more, we have got issues with schools. Sky Mesa is -- is not a huge fan of all the traffic going through their neighborhood. I don't really like that either. I know -- I know the city likes the interconnectivity thing and that's a buzzword and we spent about two hours on this at the last meeting with an interconnectivity issue at -- with a previous application we looked at last week. I think there was a failure here of not having a cross- access stubbed in from either the -- either on the north or the south and now everything is going out -- out one. As I look at this and say what else can be done with this, because I'm not sold on this. I do like -- I like the -- you know, I like that -- the single common area. Here is just a thought would be -- and they have been popular. It's a product that sells well. I think it would really play well with Sky Mesa would be a 55 and older community. That's my -- that's my two cents. That's my thought. The developer can take that and do something with that or not, but I think that would -- would maybe provide a solution. It wouldn't affect the schools hardly at all. It would reduce some of the traffic going out through Sky Mesa, because I -- I will be honest, I got a problem with that and -- and as far as ACHD and limiting accesses, just about everywhere -- everywhere else you look around Meridian it -- everything doesn't just flow through the mid mile connector. There -- there are other access points, you know, and maybe even it's just a right-in, right-out. Again, in-fill is tough. I -- personally I think that maybe the applicant needs to reconsider some other options and I don't know if that's recommending a flat out denial or a continuance to come back with something else, but personally I would like to maybe see some other things that would -- would fit better as far as the traffic going through Sky Mesa, the schools, and -- and whatnot. So, that's -- those are my thoughts. I don't know that I'm ready to move forward on approval, though, or recommendation for approval at this point. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 32 of 40 Holland: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland. Holland: One more question for staff. Just confirming. The future use map shows this parcel for medium density. Is that correct? Dodson: Commissioner Holland, yes, that is correct. This is medium density residential. If it were to be commercial and the original plan of going commercial, they would have had to apply for a Comprehensive Map amendment, which there is no guarantee that Council would approve that, especially now, because we just recently approved this. There is very little desire for staff or Council to change this map. Holland: Thank you. I think I asked that just to reiterate, I think it's easy to get stuck on the what could have been and we -- we don't have a storage application here, nor was it planned in the future use map for commercial, so I think it's -- we got to be careful not to say we would rather see a storage unit here, because the application in front of us is not a storage unit, it's a residential development and an in-fill project that fits with what the future land use map says. I think we could certainly go back and say, you know, if we want to fix the common drive challenge we could limit them to having two homes on each common drive access and ask them to reduce the lots -- number of lots by four lots to help us a little bit. I don't know how I feel about the age restricted. I see where you are coming from with that recommendation. I like it at some point. But at the same time it seems like we have had so many age restricted subdivisions coming in that I don't want to see our community just be full of lots of 55 and older communities only either. So, I'm a little -- a little torn on that. But I understand where your suggestion was coming from, because it could certainly help with at least the school challenges. Fitzgerald: I want to be -- yeah. I think -- I'm kind of in agreement with -- with Commissioner Holland and, Joe, if you can keep that up there. So, if you guys look at the R-15 to the southwest, that is a 55 and older community that we approved not very long ago, if I remember correctly, off Lake Hazel and Eagle and in addition the one in Century Farms to the pink, it's -- there is an arrow to it, that one's also to be a 55 and older community. It's the -- that's -- I'm blanking on who it's by, but that's -- the subdivision we approved two meetings ago. So, we are -- we are very close in in -- to those two communities being right there and I don't know of there is another need for that at this point and I agree with Commissioner Holland's comments that our job as -- as Planning and Zoning is to determine how something fits into the development based on our zoning and our future land use map and I think we got to get back to the -- I mean helping Council with recommendations on how it is defined by our code and our future land use map and our zoning and not what we would like to see there. That -- that takes away the property rights -- or the property rights of the owner to be able to develop what they want. So, either -- we have got to make a determination based on what's in front of us and what's the highest and best use. If this is not the highest best use in your opinion, we can make that recommendation in City Council, but I think we have got to let the property owner have their right to be able to develop what they want to develop on that property. My Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 33 of 40 challenge I think -- the school piece -- again, I'm -- my -- this is an in-fill property. I don't think it's that big of an impact. I think especially with the neighborhood around it being -- calling the shots in regards to their connectivity, I think that's -- you got to give them a little bit of a break there. In addition, my only concern with sending them out and saying the only way we are going to hear this is if you guys come into an agreement on something, that puts -- that puts the -- the owner of this property over a barrel to have to take what the -- the property around them is giving them and that's not a fair negotiation position. So, I'm cool with allowing -- or like us moving forward with saying you need to go work this out and try to find a common ground, but to keep them from being able to try to develop something without the buy off of the people around them, that's -- that's rough. So, that's just some comments and thoughts to chew on for everybody. And I -- I -- in-fill is tough. I'm not sure I'm totally sold on this either and not -- I'm with most of you on the common lot thing, I -- I lived on one of those for a while and it wasn't my favorite thing, so -- and I do think we are seeing more of those lately. So, there is lots to take in. If you guys are looking at continuing it, I think that's fine, but I -- we do have -- just FYI, because we are moving forward. We have three special meetings over the next two months because we are so backed up and so I want to be clear that that -- to the staff and to the -- to our Commissioners that that's -- trying to keep things moving forward for the applicants' sake and for the city's sake, if we can make a determination, that's great. If not I totally understand where you guys are headed. So, just -- eyes wide open as we walk into that for a conversation piece. Was that too much information for everybody to -- I got crickets on the other end. Holland: I'm tempted to throw out a motion just to see what happens. Parsons: Yeah. Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Bill, go ahead, sir. Parsons: Yeah. I just wanted to give you some context on timing for utilities in the stub street to that property. So, I think as this Commission is aware, we -- we get phasing plans with developments and typically we try to hold that developer to that phasing plan that they are proposing. I don't know exactly what phase Sky Mesa Commons is going to -- what -- what that next phase is, but if it's the next third, the fourth, or fifth phase, that's probably what -- the line where -- the stance that staff is going to take as far as making sure that utilities and that road gets stubbed to them based on that phasing plan that we approved a few years ago on that project. So, I don't have that information in front of me at this point, but I -- the way they are going out there I can't imagine it's going to be too terribly long, but I just wanted to let you -- let you know that, that we try to hold them to their phasing plan. Fitzgerald: Thanks, Bill. Additional thoughts or comments? Holland: I could try throwing out a motion and seeing if anybody goes for it. I have some ideas. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 34 of 40 Seal: I'm interested to hear what you have to say. Holland: Want me to try it? Johnson: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Yes. Chris. Johnson: I just -- for the record have you closed the public hearing? Fitzgerald: Yes. Johnson: I apologize. Thank you. Seal: Mr. Chair, I just had a quick question, something that Commissioner Cassinelli had brought up. It is just the remaining lots that are on that western boundary, does anybody else have any trepidation about allowing those to be two story or do we want to put anything in there as far as making those all one story or -- I'm okay either way. I just thought that was a concern that was brought up. I would just like to hear other opinions on that. McCarvel: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner McCarvel. McCarvel: I think the applicant went through that pretty well. The setbacks on those lots are a lot farther away from the back. I think the two story -- you know, whatever builder decides on that. Just those one stories that have to be so close to that back fence that they are worried about. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Cassinelli, did you have any follow up there or any other additional thoughts or opinion? Cassinelli: No. When it came to the -- to the setback it -- and it sounds like they had a good talk between the two of them. They were -- that -- that Boise Hunter Homes was okay with that layout and, again, with that setback it seems fine to me. Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland, I don't hear any other comments, so I'm not sure if you want to take a shot and see what happens. Holland: I will take a shot in the dark and see if anyone seconds. All right. After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to City Council of file number H-2020-0030 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of April 23rd, 2020, with the following modifications: That the Lots 30, 40, and Lot 50 as shown in the Planning and Zoning hearing meeting tonight would be limited to single story. That the applicant would work with the owners of Sky Mesa and ACHD to have a Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 35 of 40 meeting to see if there is an appropriate compromise available for the sharing of the traffic signal construction prior to the City Council meeting. That they would add an additional amenity to the common area of a playground or tot lot or something similar and that we would restrict the common drives to only allow two houses sharing a driveway and reduce four lots from the subdivision plat, which would be revised before bringing forward to City Council. McCarvel: Second. Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval of file number H-2020- 0030. Any additional discussion before we move for roll call vote? Seal: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal. Seal: Do we want to consider changing the wording to make it -- and I only say this because the applicant said that they were trying to work with Sky Mesa on providing funding for their amenities. Do we want to include that as part of this or do we just want to make it all about the ACHD agreement and the roads? Holland: I'm happy to modify the motion just to say that we would like the applicant to meet with the Sky Mesa owner to see if they can find a resolution or compromise for the shared amenities and for the traffic signal. Seal: I find that more agreeable. Fitzgerald: Agreed. Holland: Commissioner McCarvel, does second stand? McCarvel: Second stands. Fitzgerald: Any additional discussion? Pitzer: Yes. Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner Pitzer. Pitzer: Yeah. I -- rather than -- I -- I'm not so sure I want to go for approval. I would -- I would consider continue, but I am not in favor of it as an approval. Fitzgerald: Okay. Madam Clerk, can you move forward with a roll call vote, please, ma'am. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 36 of 40 Roll call: Holland, yea; Seal, aye; McCarvel, yea; Pitzer, nay; Grove, nay; Cassinelli, nay; Fitzgerald, aye. Fitzgerald: Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE NAYS. Fitzgerald: Thank you all. I know these are hard, so I appreciate everybody working through it. Item 5: Other Items A. Commission Procedures for Email Correspondence with Staff Fitzgerald: Okay. Last item on the agenda is the public hearing -- oh, sorry. It's not a public hearing. It is -- I'm going to turn it over to our Planning staff with Bill to start and, then, Andrea to comment for Commission procedures for e-mail correspondence with staff. Bill, do you want to kick us off. Parsons: Absolutely. I would love to. So, yeah, certainly with the current environment that we are having to deal with doing all of our meetings virtually, you can imagine that -- and, hopefully, you have seen an increase since -- now we are fully staffed you have seen an increase of our staff reports getting done earlier, too, which I think is a positive thing. It's getting to you sooner, so that you have adequate time to review it, get your questions in order and reach out to staff to get those questions answered, but in an effort to make sure that we are all trained up and follow the same procedures consistently between not only the Commission body and our City Council meeting, we have actually had Andrea, the city attorney -- Deputy City Attorney, put together basically a best practice or guideline for you to follow when you are wanting to reach out to staff by e-mail to ask questions in regards to a staff report. She was -- again, she was instrumental in doing that. I applaud her for that work and effort. I think it is important, but I would also mention to the Commission that staff is always available to take a phone call, too. You don't always have to e-mail or -- e-mail your questions to us. Our phones are active working from home. I'm talking to you through my computer tonight, just like you are, and so if you have a quick question and you want to call staff, you are welcome to call us on our extensions, have that conversation and that conversation could probably lead into more questions that you have in regards to a project and that way we can minimize the exposure of all of you going back and forth in an e-mail chain and giving that perception of maybe not following the public meeting laws. But with that I just wanted to at least give you that context, lay down the framework and, then, turn it over to Andrea for further instructions for you. Andrea. Fitzgerald: You are on mute, Andrea. Pogue: Thank you, Bill and -- and Ryan. So, you should have a one page handout that covers what I'm going to -- I'm just going to highlight a few things for you. I -- nothing I Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 37 of 40 say or staff is saying tonight should have -- you should have any question about. We do not intend to discourage asking questions of staff. Questions are a good thing. There is no dumb question. It -- we are here to serve. So, we thank you for all of your efforts on this Commission and I just think everyone is doing such a great job by coming -- wanting to be prepared to come to these meetings and be able to engage as you do and so -- but for the reasons Bill mentioned, it's important that we are all following the same procedures when it comes to posing these questions to staff. We want the procedure to be consistent and in -- and consistent in a way that doesn't inadvertently wander into possible territory of violating the open meeting laws. So, I think this will make sense. I tried to make it as easy as possible. It's just saying if a Commissioner has a question for staff we want you to ask it. We are available. If it's -- we would prefer this -- that the e-mail with the question -- it goes in a group e-mail -- one group e-mail to the following people. First, the assigned planner and, then, Bill Parsons and me. This planning supervisor, Bill, he backs up the planner, the attorney, me, I am available just to make sure, you know, I can coordinate help answer questions as I can, because we really want to get information back to you as swiftly as possible. So, the group e-mail, it will be directed to, as I said, the assigned planner -- if you have a question of who is -- who is assigned, that's a phone call. That's an easy call to any of us and we will be able to help you out. And, then, I would like that copied to the clerk's e-mail address. What will happen -- the e-mail should be sent as a separate correspondence and not attached to any previous e-mail that maybe was, for example, sent from the clerk's office with the agenda and the link to all of you. That's the sole purpose for that e-mail. I think it's -- in this -- in this remote environment we are dealing with it's really easy to just click on that, because you know that's to Adrienne, you know that's through your group, that gets the question out of your head, so that it can -- you can start getting it processed. But that's what we don't want to happen, because all of the Commissioners are cc'd on that e-mail chain. The e-mail should pose a question or ask that the planner is prepared to bring additional information to the hearing to present to everybody if you don't see it in the packet. So, for example, Commissioner Seal's question about Sky Mesa Highland right to the west and road connections, that was helpful for Joe to learn that he -- he was going to want more information about that. So, it could either be a specific question or it can be, hey, I don't see this and I would like to make sure I hit -- learn about it at the public hearing. That just helps the planner do a better job getting the information that you need. In the e-mail we -- we would just ask that you would be succinct in the information, your -- your question or the information you are seeking and that you don't go any further in giving a comment or opinion as to why you want that information. That should be reserved for the public hearing. So, once we get the -- once the e-mail arrives at the planners, the planner will begin -- has the primary responsibility to -- to get the information and respond. If for some reason the planner is unavailable, because Bill and I have received the e-mail as well, we coordinated as staff, one of us will become the primary and respond to you. Our e-mail will go back to the Commissioner who has asked the question to the planner, either to Bill or me, and cc'd to the clerk's office the e-mail address. We can -- follow-up questions are fine. If -- and the same protocol should be followed. We would like the same as the original e-mail that's come back to you with information, if you have another follow-up question just continue that e-mail chain, make sure it's about the same last use -- the land use application. Okay? Don't jump to another application. And even if you are -- and it should Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 38 of 40 be related to the original question. So, if you all of a sudden had a completely different question, then, maybe start a new e-mail to the planner and say I have another question about -- and it's a whole different topic and that way the record just can be very clear, because the e-mails -- copies that go to the clerk's office, will be the ones that get onto -- get put on the record. So, it just helps everybody to be able to read e-mails that are, you know, just organized. The next thing is if -- if it -- it's a follow-up e-mail to a response you have received, once again, pose the additional question, pose -- ask for more information if you want it, but refrain from commenting or presenting an opinion regarding the information you have received. What we would like is for that to -- that needs to just wait until the public hearing, so it can be on the record and everybody can hear it as well. Legal will -- I will make sure, once the Commissioner has received the information, it -- I will vet it for whether it needs to go to all of you to receive as well. Sometimes we get questions, either in a call, but in an e-mail where the Commissioner may just be seeking a little education. I don't understand what this term means. Okay. Fine. Let us tell you. But that's not some -- that's for that Commissioner's individual education. That doesn't need to be disseminated to the rest of you, you know, so I will just be exercising some judgment on that and -- and so you will probably receive 99.9 percent of these type e- mails, but maybe not a hundred percent. So, it's just kind of based on the circumstances. Let's see. I would just say that once you receive an e-mail from me saying here is a question that was posed by Commissioners X and here is the answer he got or she got, that's for your information, so that you have all seen the same thing, substantive issue information, but, then, refrain from commenting -- you know, hitting reply all and asking a question about it. What I would like you to do is back out of that, go around to the planner and pose your -- your independent question. Okay? So, it will become a new e-mail chain that you have initiated to the planner, because you are asking something slightly different. Okay? And the other city -- the other Commissioners aren't on it and, then, it will go back through that protocol. And that's just to keep the record clean. That's just to keep it from appearing like it's a non-open meeting. Like an impromptu meeting that we are all involved with, including all of you guys, because we can't do that. So, that's basically it. You -- if you have any questions we are here to answer them for you. Like Bill said, calls are great. We love hearing from you. If -- if -- questions are great. We love receiving them. We just need to make sure we are processing them consistently. So, this isn't just for your benefit, this actually -- through this -- this COVID-19 remote meeting process, it's really good for staff as well to have been reminded about this topic. So, truly clerks, planners, and legal got together on this and it was a really great reminder. We feel really comfortable now that this is going to line us up exactly with, you know, how legal operates and the clerk's office operates with council member questions. So, that's a good thing. So, out of this, hopefully, I haven't taken too much of your time, you will have information now available to you, especially our new Commissioners, who really got sucked right into an odd situation here as -- because of COVID. But I think going forward it will just make you a more uniform, highly functioning body, which is awesome. Fitzgerald: Thanks, Andrea. That was hugely helpful. Any questions for Andrea or for Bill? Seal: Mr. Chair? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 39 of 40 Fitzgerald: Go ahead, Commissioner Seal. Seal: Is there an easy way to get to, you know, essentially the -- the phone numbers that we need to dial to -- Pogue: Okay. Bill -- is Bill Parsons available? I can certainly -- Fitzgerald: Why don't we have the clerk send out that -- that information out to the -- the whole Commission. Pogue: That would be great. Seal: That would be wonderful. Thank you. Pogue: Yeah. Is Bill Parsons still here? Parsons: Yeah. I'm still here. Pogue: Okay. Parsons: I think that's a wise idea. Pogue: And did Adrienne hear that? Because otherwise -- Weatherly: Yes. Absolutely. We can -- we can get that compiled and send it out to the Commissioners. Pogue: Okay. Great. And I'm in favor of you all having my cell phone, because it's with me all the time and you can -- you can call me anytime. So, I don't know if the planners feel that way, but I do, I'm fine with that. Fitzgerald: We appreciate that. McCarvel: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner McCarvel. McCarvel: Yeah. If we could add all -- I know we all turned our cell phones numbers in for the rest of the Commission. I have lost that list before it got into my phone. So, if we could add all those again I would appreciate it. Weatherly: I'm going to send out another request for that information, because I was trying to find that list for Andrea the other day and I seem to have misplaced mine as well. So, I'm going to send out an APB tomorrow to ask you all for that information. So, once I collect all the information from you all I will disseminate it back out to everyone so we have a phone tree of sorts for you. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission April 23, 2020 Page 40 of 40 Fitzgerald: That's awesome. Perfect. Thank you. Parsons: Thank you. Pogue: No group phone calls. Fitzgerald: Thank you all. Thanks, Andrea. Does anybody have any questions for staff before we have one more motion? McCarvel: Mr. Chair? Fitzgerald: Commissioner McCarvel. McCarvel: I move we adjourn. Holland: Second. Fitzgerald: Okay. Have a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Want to hang out? Thank you all. Have a wonderful evening. Stay safe. Stay healthy. We will talk to you soon. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:04 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.) APPROVED _____________________________________ _____|_____|_____ RYAN FITZGERALD - CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVED ATTEST: _____________________________________ CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK