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2020-02-20 Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting January 20, 2020. Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of January 20, 2020, was called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Vice-Chairman Lisa Holland. Members Present: Commissioner Lisa Holland, Commissioner Bill Cassinelli, Commissioner Nick Grove and Commissioner Patricia Pitzer. Members Absent: Chairman Ryan Fitzgerald, Commissioner Rhonda McCarvel and Commissioner Andrew Seal. Others Present: Adrienne Weatherly, Andrea Pogue, Bill Parsons, Joseph Dodson and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance X Lisa Holland Rhonda McCarvel Andrew Seal X Nick Grove X Patricia Pitzer X Bill Cassinelli Ryan Fitzgerald - Chairman Holland: All right. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I would like to call to order the regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission for the date of February 20th, 2020, and we will start with roll call. Item 2: Adoption of Agenda Holland: Great. Thank you. So, this evening we have got a couple of items that are on the agenda that are requesting a continuance and some of that's just due to some noticing issues and we will walk through each of those, but if you were here for one of the first three items on the agenda we won't be opening those up for public testimony today, but we will just be opening those four continuance. So, I just want to make that known. So, the first item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. Can I get a motion to adopt the agenda as presented? Cassinelli: So moved. Pitzer: Second. Holland: I have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 5 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 2 of 60 Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item] A. Approve Minutes of February 6, 2020 Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting B. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Quality Inn & Suites (H-2019-0140) by Quality Inn & Suites - Meridian, Located at 1575 S. Meridian Rd. Holland: Next on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and we have got two items today, which is approving the minutes of February 6, 2020, Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, as well as the Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Quality Inn and Suites, H-2019-0140. Can I get a motion to approve the Consent Agenda as presented? Pitzer: As presented. Yes, I move to accept the -- accept the Consent Agenda. Cassinelli: Second. Holland: I have got a motion and a second. All those in favor. Any opposed? Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. Holland: All right. At this point in time we are going to open up the -- actually, first, I will explain the public hearing process for the evening before we get into the two continuance -- or the three continued applications. So, we will open up each item individually and we will start with the staff report. Staff will report their findings regarding how the item adheres to our Comprehensive Plan and our Uniform Development Code with the staff's recommendation. After the staff has made their presentation and the applicant will come forward for each project to present their case for approval of their application and respond to any staff comments. They will have 15 minutes to do so. After the applicant's finished we will open up the floor for public testimony. There is a sign-up sheet on the iPad in the back. So, if you wish to testify tonight on one of the applications, please, go ahead and sign up on one of those iPads in the back of the room and if any individual is here and speaking for a larger group, such as an HOA, would you just raise your hand so we can kind of see if there is anyone speaking for an HOA tonight? Okay. So, what we typically do if there is a -- a representative for an HOA is we will ask that any members who want to cede their time can let that representative speak for up to ten minutes. So, if that's the case and there is a group of people who wish to cede their time for someone else to speak for them as part of a larger group we will ask for that once we get to the public testimony stage. So, everybody otherwise gets three minutes to speak on the public testimony side and after all public testimony has been heard, the applicant will be given another ten minutes to have a chance to respond to the public testimony and, then, we will close the discussion. At that time we will close the public hearing and the Commissioners will have a chance to deliberate and make a recommendation to City Council or a decision on the application. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 6 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 3 of 60 Item 4: Action Items A. Public Hearing for Handy Truck Line Silos (H-2019-0149) by Handy Truck Line, Located at 630 E. King St. 1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for additional height exceeding 20 percent of the maximum height allowed (i.e. 50 feet) in the I-L zoning district for two (2) 80-foot tall silos. Holland: So, with that we are going to open tonight the public hearing for Handy Truck Line Silos, H-2019-0149, and the applicant is requesting a continuance. So, we will start if staff has any comments first. Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the only reason why we are continuing this project this evening is because the applicant did not post the site in accordance with the UDC standards, so we can't hear it this evening and the applicant's aware of that, so they have been informed and they understand what the rules are moving forward and so we just ask that you approve it and continue this project to the March 5th hearing, please. Holland: We could certainly have it -- is the applicant present tonight? I think I feel comfortable with the request for continuance, since they had a noticing application challenge, but can I get a motion to continue this application for Handy Truck Line Silos, H-2019-0149, to the date of March 5th, 2020. Pitzer: I motion that we continue H-2019-0149 until March 5th. Holland: Can I get a second? Groves: Second: Holland: All right. All those in favor. Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. B. Public Hearing for Lost Rapids Apartments (H-2019-0146) by GFI Meridian Investments II, LLC, Located on the North Side of W. Lost Rapids Dr., West of N. Ten Mile Rd. 1. Request: Conditional use permit for a multi-family development consisting of 102 dwelling units on 5.71 acres of land in the R-40 zoning district. Holland: Okay. Next we are going to move on to the public hearing for Lost Rapids Apartments, H-2019-0146, and that applicant's also requesting a continuance to the date Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 7 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 4 of 60 of March 19th. Does staff have any comments or would you prefer us bring up the applicant for that one? Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, no comments this evening on it. Again, same thing, didn't notice -- didn't post the site within the ten days as required by the UDC. Holland: Is the applicant present for that one? Do they wish to say anything? Okay. With that can I get a motion to continue the public hearing for Lost Rapids Apartments, H-2019-0146, to the hearing date of March 19th. Cassinelli: So moved. Holland: Can I get a second? Pitzer: Second. Holland: Got a motion and a second. All those in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. C. Public Hearing for Lupine Cove (H-2019-0133) by Penelope Constantikes, Riley Planning Services, Located at 4000 N. McDermott Rd. 1. Request: Annexation of 7.09 acres of land with an R-4 zoning district; and, 2. Request: Preliminary plat consisting of 27 building lots and 9 common lots on 7 acres of land in the R-4 zoning district. Holland: Okay. And we will move on to public hearing for Lupine Cove, H-2019-0133, and it's the third one that's requesting also another continuance to March 19th. Staff, I don't know if you have any other comments you'd like to make or if it's similar situation on that one. Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, same thing. The only difference is we noticed in the property -- the project was having -- requesting R-4 zoning and, actually, the application was meant to be continued -- or, excuse me, posted for an R-8 zone. So, the annexation description was wrong for the project and we just need to get that corrected and we need some time to do that. Holland: And is the applicant here for that one? Did you wish to say anything about the request? Okay. Then if anyone would like we can request a continuance for the public hearing for Lupine Cove, H-2019-0133, for the date of March 19th, 2020. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 8 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 5 of 60 Pitzer: So moved. Holland: Got a motion. Cassinelli: Second. Holland: Got a second. All those in favor. Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. D. Public Hearing for Day Wireless (H-2019-0115) by Day Wireless, Located at 1668 E. Franklin Rd. 1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a new 125-foot tall (self-support tower) wireless communication facility in an I-L zoning district that doesn't comply with UDC 11-4-3-43C.8, which prohibits lattice designed structures, as required by UDC 11-4-3-43C-10. Holland: All right. Now we will move on to one where we can actually open that up and talk a little bit more. So, we are on for the public hearing of Day Wireless, H-2019-0115, seeking a conditional use permit and we will start with the staff report. Dodson: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. Day Wireless is the applicant. They are applying for a conditional use permit and alternative compliance. It is to construct a 125 foot tower for a wireless communication facility on 2.5 acres of land in the I-L zoning district, specifically located at 1668 East Franklin Road. The adjacent land uses are also industrial to its direct north and east. Commercial to the west. Some R-15 zoning to the south across the street. There is an approved CZC and design review on the property as well for the existing flex building. A preliminary -- preliminarily set out this tower. In the I-L zoning district a monopole wireless tower is permitted by right, but through a conditional use permit you may apply for a different design structure, which is why we are here tonight for the steel lattice support. The applicant is stating that due to the height of being above a hundred feet they need the additional support. This is a pretty standard application. Staff does support the applicant's request for conditional use and the alternative compliance was for the required landscape buffer that is supposed to be around the structure. Staff finds that the alternative compliance methods of an additional vinyl fence and a landscape bed of some kind to be consistent with the alternative compliance requirements. To the north of the existing structure is a very large warehouse building as you can see here and directly to the east there is another building right behind the fence. So, there will be plenty of screening. In addition, the applicant is requesting that the Commission waive my addition 1 .1 B of Section 8 of the staff report due to the existing site constraints. When I wrote the staff report I did not know specifically where this gate was and it is more constraining than I anticipated, but with the existing structures around it and the existing site obscuring fence we believe that the -- there will be enough screening. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 9 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 6 of 60 Holland: Can you repeat that item number on the conditions? That was 1.1 B? Dodson: Correct. 1.1 B of Section 8. Yes. And I also mentioned it in my outline. Holland: Great. Thank you. Any questions for staff before we bring the applicant up? All right. Thank you. At this point would the applicant like to come forward. If you wouldn't mind, state your name and address for the record for us. Yeah. You just come up here to the microphone. Thank you. You got to talk right into the microphone. Wymer: Okay. Annie. Holland: You're doing great. Wymer: Okay. Holland: So, state your name and address for the record for us and, then, if you have got any other comments you would like to make beyond what staff said you are welcome to -- Wymer: My address? Holland: Yeah. Your name and address or your business address. Wymer: That's a great question. 7117 Beveland Road, Tigard, Oregon. Holland: And what was your last name? Wymer: Wymer. Holland: Thank you. Wymer: I have no additional comments at this time. I can answer any questions you might have. Holland: All right. Any questions? Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: The -- the height of 125 feet, is that -- is that normal height or is that considerably taller than most cell structures? Wymer: That would be average height for a lot of the towers that we have done. Cassinelli: And what -- what is the lattice tower or does -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 10 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 7 of 60 Wymer: It is a self support tower. Cassinelli: Okay. Now, I have got the image up here. Wymer: Okay. Cassinelli: Thank you. Wymer: Yep. Holland: I believe typically the reason that this is ahead -- in front of us right now is typically they can do a monopole type structure and this is just asking for alternative compliance allowing them to do this -- this type of a structure instead. Staff worked with them to put in a few landscaping conditions, but they requested Condition 1 .1 be removed. Any other concerns with the staff report or any recommendations there? Wymer: No other concerns. Holland: Any other questions for the applicant? All right. Thank you. Wymer: Thank you. Holland; Appreciate it. Do we have anybody signed in for public testimony on this application? Weatherly: Madam Chair, one moment, please. Madam Chair, we have four people signed in, but no one wishing to testify. Holland: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to testify on this application tonight? Seeing no hands, I'm assuming that the applicant doesn't have any other further comments that they would like to make. All right. With that can I get a motion to close the public hearing for Day Wireless, H-2019-0115, so that we can deliberate. Pitzer: So moved. Holland: Got a motion? Cassinelli: Second. Holland: Motion and a second. All those in favor. Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. Holland: All right. Commissioners, any thoughts? Commissioner Grove? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 11 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 8 of 60 Grove: I think it's covered in -- with the staff report. The -- the only concern that I had going in was what you answered in terms of the fencing and how that needed to be addressed. So, I appreciate that. Holland: In general I think it seemed like a fairly straightforward application. I actually like the look of the lattice structure better than the monopole look and I think with where -- if you got to put a cell tower somewhere that helps with improving radio signal for hospital, police, I believe that's what we read in the staff report, it seems like a good fit in the type of area that it's in, because it's surrounded by industrial in nature, not a lot residences nearby, so I feel pretty comfortable with it, but, Commissioner Cassinelli, any other comments you would like to make? Cassinelli: I have got concerns with the height and the lattice. I'm -- I guess I'm -- I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I think the monopole's look is a little bit better. It's -- you know, to me this seems like something that you would see out the middle of nowhere, you know, a large power pole and 125 feet is -- is -- is pretty tall. I mean there are -- that whole corner there is industrial and I think the corner to the -- to the west there is -- I think it's also going to be industrial there. There is the residences to the south, which it's not blending into that, but I'm not completely sold on it, but I would like to see something that's -- kind of fits a little bit more -- and maybe a question for staff. What -- is that within the -- the height limitation in that -- in that area, the 125 feet? Dodson: Commissioner Cassinelli, the -- in the I-L zoning district there is no height restriction for wireless communication facilities. Cassinelli: There is no height? Dodson: Correct. Cassinelli: What are some of the -- what are some of the normal, if there are, height requirements for -- for antenna. Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, we have seen anywhere from 60 feet to 120 feet throughout the community. Just about a half a mile away we have the Ada county dispatch center that's off of Pine and they have the same structure that they received CUP approval to do the same thing. These type of antennas are a little unique from a cell tower. They have to be a certain height in order for them to ping all of -- to all the other emergency dispatchers throughout the valley. So, although you won't see a lot of towers, you will see them taller, because that way they have to put up less towers, because that way they don't have to ping off of so many different towers. They did -- the applicant did reach out to the 911 dispatch center to see if they could co-locate on their tower and they were denied that request and so they decided to move forward with their application and take a chance with you this evening. But our preference in our code is always co-location is preferred and, if not, justify why you think you need it and given that their business is installing that equipment into emergency vehicles that's probably important that they have that facility on their site in order to test the equipment as well. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 12 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 9 of 60 So, that's why staff is supportive of the design and the additional height requested by the applicant. Dodson: And Madam Chair and Commissioner Cassinelli, if I may add, the lattice structure that is located at the dispatch center is 180 feet, so -- 190. Cassinelli: This is actually much shorter than that. Holland: So, I was going to say I think -- I have seen other towers come in at a higher height than this one. Part of a challenge is I think their equipment doesn't work unless it's at that 125 feet, which is why they are requesting that. Cassinelli: Okay. Pitzer: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Pitzer. Your microphone. Turn your microphone on. Pitzer: Sorry. Sorry. I'm questioning as to why a monopole can't be used on this site and why -- why we are going for lattice. Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, it comes down to integrity of the structure. The taller you go the more support you need and so this structure lends itself for taller towers than is a typical monopole. So, that's why they are -- that's why the Ada county dispatch center went with a lattice style, too, because of the additional height that you need in order to -- to get the towers taller in the air and so monopoles usually are a little more difficult to erect and engineer at that high in this design. And I would also let you know the one at the dispatch center it's probably less noticeable than if you had a big round monopole sticking up in the air, because it gets pretty narrow at the top of the pole. So, it typically blends in a little bit more into the sky than you would see with a typical monopole. Holland: Thank you, Bill. Grove: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Grove. Grove: Staff question. I believe in the report it said that if a monopole was used additional support structures would be required. Was that something -- did I read that correctly? Dodson: Madam Chair, Commissioner Grove, I do not believe I stated that there would be additional support structures. Maybe referencing additional support in the sense of additional buildings for different equipment that could be -- fit on this pole alone. In addition, I did state that monopoles are permitted by right and so they would not even need a conditional use permit in this zone. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 13 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 10 of 60 Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Due to technology I just pulled up Google Maps and took a look at the tower there for the 911 dispatch and I will say that actually that looks less obtrusive than a monopole from what I can just--just from the images here, so -- and it's -- it will be shorter than this. So, I'm glad I could take a look at that. Holland: Thanks, Commissioner Cassinelli. Any other comments? All right. I would certainly entertain a motion if someone would like to make a motion on this application. I know that the only request we had was for removing condition 1.1 B, which was a -- a landscaping condition and staff was amenable to that request. Anyone want to take a stab at making a motion? Pitzer: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Pitzer. Pitzer: I -- I move that we approve the request to approve the Day Wireless, H-20 dash -- sorry. H-2019-0015 and waive Condition 1.113 of Section 8 of the staff report and all other conditions to remain. Holland: Okay. Pitzer: Sorry. Holland: That's great. All right. We have got a motion. Do we have a second? Cassinelli: Second. Holland: Motion to approve the Wireless -- Day Wireless request for H-2019-0115 for the conditional use permit of the 125 foot tower. All those in favor. Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. E. Public Hearing for Meridian Station (H-2019-0142) by Matt McAnulty, Located at the Southeast Corner of N. Main St. and E. Broadway Ave., North of the Railroad tracks. 1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for additional height exceeding the maximum height allowed of 75 feet in the O-T zoning district for two (2) 100-foot tall vertically integrated structures. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 14 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 11 of 60 Holland: We will move on now to the public hearing for Meridian Station, which is file number H-2019-0142 and we will begin with the staff report. Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. Next item on the agenda this evening is the Meridian Station conditional use permit. The subject property consists of 6.13 acres of land. It is zoned Old Town and located at the southeast corner of North Main Street and East Broadway Avenue and it's also located north of the railroad tracks. A very -- a variety of use exists in this area, including restaurant, drinking establishment, offices, industrial and residential uses in the Old Town in R-15 and I-L zoning districts as you can see here. If you looked at the purpose statement in my staff report for the Old Town district, that particular zone -- zone and that land use supports a vertically integrated project that the applicant's proposing this evening. So, we find that it is consistent with the Old Town Comprehensive -- Comprehensive Plan designation, as well as the Old Town zoning district. The site is currently developed with vacant buildings. It's a pretty blighted area for downtown. I have been with the city for almost 13 years and we have been trying to get something started on the site for quite a long time. So, it's exciting to see some buildings being removed from the site and that we actually have a pending application in front of you this evening. So, the applicant -- in the Old Town zone the maximum height limit is 75 feet, unless you go through the conditional use permit, and so the applicant is here this evening to discuss with you erecting two vertically integrated structures total in height of one hundred feet, consistent with the Old Town zone. You can see here that there is a west building and east building that's proposed for you this evening. The first phase of the west building will consist of approximately 7,740 square feet of retail building on the front of it and you can see that in the blue color here and, then, have a total of 185 residential units, all consisting of studio one bedroom and two bedroom units. It would also be a two story parking garage that contains 168 parking stalls and, then, in the landscape plan just to the left hand -- or to the right-hand side of your screen here you can see there is also going to be some open space proposed for the units as well and that's approximately 4,713 square feet. The east building will have 17,656 square feet of retail, 200 residential units -- again, that same unit mix of studio one bedroom, two bedroom units, 382 parking garage spaces and, then, 8,213 square feet of common open space. What's unique about the east building here is as you can see there is actually two common open spaces -- rooftop terraces for the residents to use in the future. And, then, as part of the development -- so, that parking goes along with those two structures, but the applicant's also proposing on the western third of the site an additional 109 parking stalls. Again, this is interim slated for a future phase for some additional offices, but as part of their proposal this evening we are talking about the height of the structures, but at least they wanted to give you the development context for what they plan to do for the entire six acre site. Typically with vertically integrated projects we don't require open space and amenities, but in working with the applicant and, then, pre-app'ing with the applicant it was important that we have some of those elements and bring that to our downtown area. It's important for people to be able to work, play, recreate where they live in downtown. So, I would have to say the applicant's done a pretty good job of providing not only open space for the residents, but also the rooftop -- or the street level plaza that you see in front of the north side of the west building here. Don't have all of those details yet, but that will happen as we move Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 15 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 12 of 60 through additional development applications with the city. The applicant has provided some renderings for you to look at this evening. Again, not a lot of details on what the building materials are, but they -- really this is just the bulk and scale and mass of the proposed structure so you can see how it sits on that property as you take that conditional use permit for the height under consideration this evening. I would mention to you that the applicant is also proposing access -- one to Main Street and one to East 3rd here through the site. If you had a chance to read through my staff report I did note that our preference is for them to not propose access to North Main, but take it from Broadway, which is the lesser street typology. Currently we have North Main as an arterial street. So, it's our preference and our code requires them to take access from a local street, which Broadway Avenue is. So, we are asking them to redesign their property -- or redesign their access, remove that access point to Main, and take access from Broadway in this general location here. As part of the proposed development the applicant will also be required to put in all of the streetscape improvements along Main Street, Broadway and East 3rd Street. A few years ago our long range planner Brian McClure went to great lengths to adopt the downtown cross-direction -- cross-section master street guide that we are supposed to use and it kind of has the -- how the streetscape is supposed to look on our urban streets. The applicant is required to comply with those standards moving forward through this process. I would mention to you that once if -- if approved this evening all the other approvals for this site require staff level approvals, so it will not come back to this body for any additional approvals. One thing that staff was concerned with in communicating with the applicant is making sure that we have adequate parking for a development of this size. Typically in urban developments you want less parking, because you want people to live and work and have all of those amenities downtown. The vision for downtown is always to have kind of shared parking, structure parking, so that we can kind of consolidate our parking areas, have walkable streets, have on-street parking for residents throughout the day and so when we were analyzing this project, if you had a chance to look at the staff report, the applicant did a fairly decent job of kind of laying out what they are proposing for parking. In looking at the code and what they are proposing, the code requires them to have 414 parking stalls. As proposed before you this evening they are proposing over 659 parking stalls on this site. So, definitely proposing more than what's required in -- in city ordinance. But I would also mention to you that, again, in this parking lot on the western half-- or western third of the project will be slated for two office buildings in the future and so that will be removed and so at some point in time if the site doesn't have adequate parking, the applicant will have to either go through an alternative compliance process with the city, which, again, is staff level approval and we will reevaluate -- reevaluate the parking calcs at that time. But right now staff is pretty comfortable with the parking ratio that they are proposing this evening. Don't want to spend a lot of time on that this evening, but it is an important component of this particular project. I also noted in the staff report that the west building did not have the required number of parking stalls based on the ratio that they provided, but because this project will be held under common ownership we are able to take the cumulative parking for the overall project and find that it does meet the parking ratio of the UDC. So, as I have alluded to, again, the final design of this building is not approved at this time. We just basically want you to see what -- what the scale and mass is that they are proposing to let you know how it would look with a hundred foot tall building on the site. Staff is Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 16 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 13 of 60 confident that what they are proposing fits in with the surrounding area. We are supportive of the CUP. In looking at the public record it doesn't look like we received any public comments on this application. With that I will conclude that staff is recommending approval with conditions in the staff report and I will stand for any questions you may have. Holland: Any questions for staff at this point? All right. With that would the applicant like to come forward. State your name and address for the record for us. Putman: Madam Chair, my name is Jeremy Putman and I work at neUdesign Architecture at 725 East 2nd Street in -- here in Meridian and one thing I wanted to do is just come before you and talk to you about the overall concept for this project and address some of the comments that we heard both in our neighborhood meeting and also from the -- the conditions in the -- in the staff report. First is the -- the project has been rebranded to Union 93. Formally Meridian Station. Still same, just -- just the name for that. Bill, just real quick, do I have control here? Okay. Meridian has been expanding over the -- the recent years and the population of Meridian increases within -- from within the state and without. Meridian is -- is an extremely desirable place to be and to live. It has also stretched -- this growth has also stretched our -- our local infrastructure and there is a need to densify in the right areas with -- in order to be responsible with sprawl and in order -- and to lessen the load on our expanded infrastructure. We are looking at this downtown location as, one, a very desirable location. We have got a lot of services within reach, mainly from employment in downtown businesses, other industrial operators and retail opportunities in the downtown corridor and just outside. There is a great lifestyle that's presented in -- in opportunity here in the Rails To Trails that's being developed. The extensive Meridian parks system and there is still a lot of entertainment opportunities both downtown and just outside. Everyday living is accommodated by grocery stores, restaurant options, transportation and education within walking distance. This is -- this proposed project is on a site that has been left and underutilized for many years and I think this is a great opportunity for revitalization and to bring some life into the area. City Hall has spoken about the need to energize the Meridian downtown core and businesses are coming into this area and they are having a hard time finding office space and places for their employees to live. Growing businesses, even within the downtown area, are actually leaving downtown, because there is not available opportunities for office space. Our company, neUdesign, is actually growing and we have, you know, cobbled together some spaces in a couple of buildings downtown and -- and, you know, we are experiencing a little bit of this, so to see some more office space come into the downtown areas is I think a great opportunity. We are seeing a renewed interest in bringing residents and businesses together and this project would -- would support a mix of uses and provides the resident -- provides residential and commercial opportunities. Just a larger view of the proposed site plan, noting that the entries -- the -- we heard the concerns about the entrance off Main Street and during the CZC process we are definitely willing to work with the city and ACHD to determine the best location for the entrances for that interim parking and, then, also the permanent entrance for that future office space. Currently the ones highlighted on the west side there are existing curb cuts. We can -- more than willing to work with the city on what that looks like. We were just trying to reuse Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 17 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 14 of 60 what's there for that interim office -- or interim parking area -- area that is mainly slated for city use during the construction, because we know that also the city has a dearth of parking available. We are asking for allowed -- or increase in the height from 75 foot -- the 75 feet that's allowed to one hundred foot and in order to provide the needed density for the persons in this project, whether its residents or businesses, that is what -- that is what has pushed us to exceed the height limit of 75 feet in the Old Town zone. This project will provide housing, on site parking, and commercial space in its proposed hundred foot building height. The levels of the parking are -- are a main driver. In order to get the number of onsite parking stalls and residential levels also have a height demand on this project and one thing I wanted to bring out -- one of the uniques of this project is that we are exploring currently pricing this project be built with modular construction. There are several modular manufacturers in the valley that have been doing modular construction for multi-family and hospitality, but in general most of their product is shipped outside of the state and we feel that we are at kind of a tipping point in the valley where we can actually experience the benefits of those -- that type of construction in -- here in the valley. A couple of things that does. It increases the quality of the -- of the construction being built in a controlled environment and, then, it also reduces the construction schedule when the podium and the site work is being done and completed and cured at that same time the units are being manufactured in a controlled environment and when the podium and site are ready those modules are brought in and craned into place, thus shortening that -- that schedule. So, it's less impactful on the -- on the neighborhood during construction. Just a couple of views as seen in the staff report, but just a little larger. I did want to address a couple of the comments in the staff report about finishes. This is not the final design. We just needed to get something in to address the height --the height request that we are asking for. We will certainly work with the city and the design guidelines to create a building that has a mix of materials and fits within the urban fabric that we have here in downtown. And so with -- oh. And also, lastly, I guess to address the -- the streetscape. When we come in for full CZC application we will have those requirements for the streetscape on -- on all sides of the building. Let's see. And in the future with that interim parking space that is just temporary. When we come back for the -- the office building, the programmed and required parking will be provided in that -- in that construction we are also looking at another couple levels of parking structure as well. So, we do want to make sure that, yes, there is ample parking on this -- on this site for both the residents and -- and the public to come visit these commercial spaces. And with that I'm ready to stand for any questions that the Council has. Holland: Thank you. One quick question I have got before I open it up to my fellow Commissioners. The building I'm assuming will be fully sprinkler because of its height. Putman: Correct. Holland: Okay. Putman: Thank you. Any other questions from the Commission right now for the applicant? All right. I think that's it for now. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 18 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 15 of 60 Putman: Okay. Holland: Madam Clerk, do we have anyone signed in to testify for this application? Weatherly: Sorry. Madam Chair, we have several people signed in, three of which choose to testify. The first name is Shannon Ingle. Holland: And, Shannon, if you don't mind restating your name and address for the record when you come that would be great. Ingle: Shannon Ingle. 685 Woodbury in Meridian. And let me start -- excuse me -- by saying this is not something that I would normally do. Obviously, I feel strongly -- my voice is nervous. I have a business downtown. I'm actually neighbors with neUdesign. Get along with them very well. I'm friends with all of the other businesses downtown. run Coffee Paint Repeat. It's a local business where the community gathers. They have celebrations. Photoshoots. It's a well used place. Families make memories there. I have been downtown for three years now. I have survived the Pine Street widening where the construction workers and everybody had to come in flux into downtown Meridian for parking. It was pretty bad for a long time. It affected business when we had to take that overflow and that wasn't even for a very long time and it did affect all of us. At the time I did call the City of Meridian to ask for help. Can you come and give some tickets. Can you come and mark some tires. I did have a city worker come into my business very aggressively wanting to know why I was complaining. Had to have her leave my business. She sent me flowers. I am not totally -- I am not really sure that we are going to be protected during construction of something this large for this long. Parking is only monitored Monday through Friday, 8:00 to 6:00. When these apartments come who is going to help us as businesses with the overflow from all of the apartments and everything else? Friday from 7:00 p.m. until Monday at 8:00 a.m. literally hundreds of cars could sit on the streets and not move and not be ticketed and nothing could happen. I understand they are putting in 550 parking spaces in these garages for 385 apartments 29,000 square feet of retail, 120,000 square feet of office space. I just -- it doesn't seem like a math equation that really fits, because everybody in those apartments -- they have friends, boyfriends and girlfriends, they are going to have parties, they are going to have people visit. Those businesses are going to have people that need to work there. The offices are going to have people that need to work there. I just don't know that -- what is that, 170 spots left over -- that that's enough to take care of all those people and a lot of us small business owners have been downtown for a long time and we are just scared. We are scared of this big thing coming and we just want to be seen and we want to be heard and how do we survive. How do we survive through construction and how do we survive after. Holland: If you can wrap up your thoughts. Ingle: Yes. A couple questions. When tenants rent their apartments are they given the option to pay for a parking space in the parking structure or park on the street, because, then, that could be an even bigger problem if theyjust choose to find parking on the street. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 19 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 16 of 60 And we are already absorbing the overflow from these apartments on Main where there is only one spot in the garages per apartment where people might have two cars per family. So, we haven't even felt the impact of absorbing that overflow yet and now we are already talking about absorbing overflow from 385 more apartments. So, I just want people to really think about what downtown can look like. And have you driven on Main at 5:00 o'clock recently? So, that's all I wanted to say. Holland: Appreciate you coming in tonight. Ingle: Thank you. Holland: Madam Clerk. Weatherly: Thank you, Madam Chair. Lindsay Adam -- excuse me Lindsay Anderson. Holland: Lindsay, if you wouldn't mind stating your name and address again for the record we would appreciate it. Anderson: My name is Lindsay Anderson and my business address is 725 North Main Street. I currently own a salon right here on Main Street and the future of our building is nonexistent either with those previous apartments that have been approved already. I'm basically here to just second about everything that Shannon has already said. I feel like as business owners in downtown not a whole lot of knowledge has been shared with these big projects until we see articles online and Facebook with friends of ours, like tagging us and things like did you hear that this is happening and it just -- I don't know. As a kid growing up on the streets of downtown Meridian it breaks my heart to see it change this much. I'm all for, you know, a facelift and, you know, kind of making it exciting and new and fun and look pretty, because there are certain spots, like this location, that feel like have sat for many many years and it is time to do something with it, but I just am -- like Shannon said, very very nervous about what the overflow of that many people -- I mean the ones that I sit underneath are going to be 200 plus I think apartments and like a hundred parking spaces outside, which they expect to have restaurants and a potential salon to stay underneath of that when -- where am I even supposed to park to go to work. So, yeah, like Shannon said with having that many more apartments coming into downtown, there -- to me it makes absolutely no sense who thinks that the math equation of that we will find parking for people to find a space to live or to work or to play in downtown Meridian. So, that's kind of all I have to say. Just -- it really worries me. Holland: Thanks, Lindsay. Weatherly: Madam Chair, Tina Sayko. Holland: Tina, same request. If you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record for us we appreciate it. Sayko: Tina Sayko. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 20 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 17 of 60 Holland: Wait until you get to the mic, if you don't mind. Thank you. Sayko: Tina Sayko. 310 East Broadway, Meridian. So, I live on the corner of -- pretty close to the corner of 3rd and -- Holland: I'm sorry, if you wouldn't mind speaking into the mic. Our recorder has a hard time hearing otherwise. Sayko: Oh. Holland: You can pull it down towards you. Sayko: Oh. Okay. Yeah. I live on East Broadway. It's kitty-corner from where this development is coming in and my thoughts mirror the previous two girls exactly on the parking. I don't have off-street parking at my place and I also run a hair salon in my home and have for 20 years in Meridian and our parking already without any of this is getting tougher and tougher every day to find parking with all the existing businesses coming in. So, I -- I wish some more thought was going to go into this before you just plunge and protect us that are existing down there. So, these people -- residents cannot use our parking and I'm very concerned about the entrance off East 3rd, because you know there is a lumberyard across the street with big trucks turning all the time into -- and they can barely make that corner from 3rd onto Broadway as it is and having the tracks there with no big things that do that -- they are on Main Street, but not on 3rd. So, it's really easy to miss a train. I mean to not see those trains coming down those tracks. You are bringing all those cars in, you know, and nobody is going to be able to see the trains coming, like they can't now anyway, unless you're on Main and trying to pull off of East 3rd into a parking lot with big lumber trucks coming around the corner, I think you need to think about this a little bit and I would like some assurances that I would have parking, because, you know, I may only work a couple more years only when the project's done, but still I cannot haul groceries four or five blocks away to my house and St. AI's, when they bought up most of downtown Boise around their area, residents, they did put in parking -- oh, it was kind of like a meter parking where they have to have a tag to park there and I think that would be very critical for some of us that are older, retired, with disabilities and stuff, that cannot afford to put off-street parking in the back of our yard. As you know it's -- it's a -- it's a big deal. You will have to bring in gravel, you have to take down your fences, take down your sheds, everything you have worked for, it's going to be gone and, then, you still might not be able to pull into your own spot and that is something I will not be able to afford. So, I -- I wish there was more planning. And I do oppose the height, because it's already tall enough and we are already going to block our -- it's going to darken our city -- our street -- light coming in for our gardens, our flowers, whatever. I don't oppose the project itself, I just think it needs to be, you know, thought about a little bit more carefully. The height is one of them. Twenty-five feet might not seem much to you, but when you have seen downtown Boise and how dark it's getting with all those tall buildings, it's almost like Portland now. You can't see. There is no light. And so we would love to have our light -- taking away our light. Taking away our parking. Not assuring us -- not assuring all of us business owners and residents we will have our own Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 21 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 18 of 60 parking and causing a hardship to us is a major concern. So, I would like to know if there is going to be anymore studies on this before we just -- you know, that this happens. The railroad situation. I mean the railroad tracks. The lumber trucks. I don't even know what you guys are thinking. I think it's going to bring something here, but maybe not so huge. Holland: Well, we can let the -- we will let the applicant answer some of your questions, along with the other questions about parking, construction, timelines, all of those things, too. Thank you. Appreciate your comments. Weatherly: Madam Chair, Kyle Jones. Holland: Name and address for the record, too. Thank you, Kyle. Jones: Sure thing. Kyle Jones. 412 East Broadway. I am in support of a project like this. However, in the previous comments taking into concern relative building heights, being that kitty-corner you have single story homes, a hundred foot -- hundred foot -- excuse me --a hundred foot structure, you know, my tenant starts to go a little dark around 4:00 p.m. instead of 7:00, but just an example, I would also like the applicant to answer any questions, if you can prior to hearing anymore answers for me, but overall in support of the project, just perhaps taking another look at the height. So, thank you. Holland: Did you have any specific questions you wanted us to make sure the applicant addressed tonight? Jones: No. I believe those concerns have already been raised. Holland: Okay. Jones: Just wanted to voice my support in the development of this site. However, with the concerns that have already been noted taken into account. So thank you. Holland: Thanks, Kyle. Appreciate it. Madam Clerk, anyone else? Weatherly: Madam Chair, that's all that signed up. Holland: Okay. Would anyone else like to testify on this application tonight? Go ahead and come up forward and state your name and address for the record once you get up to the mic. C.Jones: Hi. My name is Cheryl Jones. 830 North Main Street. And this is -- must be like what it feels like to get a Grammy. I'm like so embarrassed. Anyway. I think that we are all -- my daughter and I own a small business also in downtown Meridian on the corner of Pine and Main, which is actually a prime location in my mind and I think we are all, as small business owners, so excited about expansion and what that looks like in productivity and community for the City of Meridian. I think the challenging part for us is like we are in a prime location and yet we feel like there is not a draw to come to downtown Meridian. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 22 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 19 of 60 There is no -- like why -- why are people going to come here? They are going to go to Eight Thirty Common to have dinner. They are going to, you know, maybe go to El Tenampa to have dinner. But what is the true draw? There is no draw there. So, the -- the actual idea of having more retail space and people wanting to come to downtown Meridian I think we are all excited about, but when you are talking about a 300 -- over 300 plus units, I don't know if they are -- one question would be is are they low income. I don't know the answer to that. Probably everybody else does. But I don't know if they are low income if that's where their focus is on. But you have got 300 some units. You have got two cars per family, not just one car per family, but you have got two cars and if you have got a teenager now you might have three cars. That amount of parking that's being proposed isn't going to accommodate all those people and the fact that they can -- in the future everything is going to be just voted on by the staff versus the community, they can take that extra parking away if I'm understanding it correctly, turning it into more retail or space for businesses. That's a little bit scary also. And for the small businesses we -- if people don't find a place to park they are not going to stop. They are not going to come in and we have a shop, so for us it's like they might park and go to a restaurant, but they are not going to park and try to get to the gift shop. Do you know what I'm saying? So, it's just -- it's -- I think it's a concern, but we are excited, but like we don't even know the owner who is proposing this and we are a business in downtown Meridian and I feel like if we want to come together it's important that we all work together, too, and meet each other and know each other and no concerns and just listen to those I guess. Yeah. I mean we try so hard to actually collaborate between our small businesses, all of us, and so it's hard to see something a lot bigger coming in over the top of us. We already fight with big box stores, you know, on Eagle Road. It's like they have everything accessible to them that they need. So -- I don't know. That's just my point of view. Sorry. But I appreciate you guys listening. Holland: Thank you. Would anyone else like to testify tonight? Go ahead and come forward, sir. If you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record we would appreciate it. Prata: So, Mike Prata. 7165 -- Nampa, Idaho. Really I have been eye-balling this property, I will be honest with you guys, for five years now. About six years. And work for the railroad. I have switched out that track all the time -- switch it over to Pro Build. So, first thing want to say is I apologize if I have ever held you guys up and made you guys late for work. Really, I can't emphasize that enough. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to do my job. On the side of that -- on a side note there, I have been looking at this property on that siding and, you know, you have 150 feet with the easement of the railroad. I left the railroad and I have a transloading idea that I would like to implement here without -- I don't want to say too much without doing a nondisclosure agreement. However, how much of this siding -- because I see that you guys have Rails To Trails. I will tell you right now the railroad does not want anybody there. I mean you guys -- I mean you guys are downtown Meridian. It's a great location. I can't emphasize that enough. But, you know, when you have railroad tracks and it's an industrial area, I mean there is not enough real estate to keep on putting more tracks in. The siding right there I could still do my business plan. However, I want to leave that to the Union Pacific and I found out in October it was Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 23 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 20 of 60 sold. I'm just kind of curious on how far that siding -- I mean where exactly is that property line going to be, because I mean I could still do my job there, I'm just kind of curious on what's allowed, because it says it's going to be used for bus -- buses. Is that correct? I -- Holland: We can certainly have the applicant explain more on what the -- Prata: Yeah. Main Street. 3rd Street access. Holland: Unless staff has any comments they would like to make to that question. Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, yeah, currently on the site plan it's showing essentially emergency access in the railroad right of way. He's -- he's correct, there is 200 feet that the railroad has. The pathway itself is outside of the railroad corridor, which is a little bit north of that. But it does say access to 3rd Street and it says for fire and buses. So, anything that happens in that area they are going to have to work with the railroad to make that happen and they are going to have to satisfy the fire department requirements, too. The applicant may have some more information as to what conversations they have had with our fire department and the railroad, but the gentleman's correct, currently there is nothing allowed in there, unless you can reach an agreement somewhere, and that's something that applicant is going to have to do moving forward. Prata: I appreciate it. Thank you. I will -- I hope I don't wake anybody up. Holland: Thank you. Appreciate it. Anyone else here would like to testify on this application tonight? Seeing no more hands -- oh, we have got one more. And state your name and address for the record for us, please. Perry: Hello. My name is Kayloni Perry. I am with Cheryl Jones, my mom, and our address is 830 North Main Street in Meridian. So, we own a home decor and gift boutique, as she stated, it's called 44 East and like she said, I think initially when we had heard of this I was extremely excited, just because it's bringing foot traffic to downtown Meridian, which is what all of us local retailers want and desire. So, my greatest question -- I have the same concerns as previously stated with parking. Obviously, we run into that as it is right now, even with our employees. We only have two employees aside from us and parking is, obviously, already an issue and so that is one, but I don't need to reiterate it, since it's been stated multiple times. Second, I think I just have a question, because I think in the article it was stated that the retail spaces coming in were anchor stores and that slightly considers -- or I guess concerns me just because I -- we came and moved our business to downtown Meridian, we chose downtown Meridian over downtown Boise, specifically to help the community of Meridian. We wanted something to come back to that exactly as they titled it -- Old Town feel and that's really important and we love, love, love this community. We don't want to have to leave this community. We want to -- our small business to survive and as do many other small businesses down here. So, I'm curious to like -- I hope that the knowledge is out there of how many small businesses are Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 24 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 21 of 60 actually already anchored in downtown Meridian, but also those anchor stores -- I don't want to have big box stores come in and/or franchises that are going to come in and knock us out, because we are the people in Meridian, too, and so I would just state that's one of my questions for them is what are these businesses, what is the retail coming in. It's concerning for a small business owner that we already work our can off to try to survive in a community that doesn't have that foot traffic. So, those would be my concerns. Thank you. Holland: Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Last call. Anyone else want to speak on this application before we bring the applicant back up? Not seeing any hands, I will ask the applicant to come back forward. You have got a few questions to answer. Putman: That I do, Madam Chair, Commissioners. Thank you very much for all the public comments. We do appreciate it. And many of them are similar to what we heard at the neighborhood meeting and going -- going through this -- I guess just doing -- doing what I can -- took some notes. I apologize if I don't get all of them directly. Parking concerns. Yes, we have -- we are cognizant of that and we are providing an excess of parking stalls, because we did -- we did hear that in our neighborhood meeting and -- and some of the same concerns about people parking on streets. So, even taking out the -- the required parking stalls for the commercial zone, there is still 1.4 parking -- approximately 1 .4 parking stalls per unit, which is over the one per unit that's required by code and the office space is not -- that's, you know, something that's future and, like I mentioned, that -- at the time that that application is made will be showing as well adequate parking to support that. As far as the -- the tenants in the commercial space, I don't know where the comment from the -- like an anchor tenant. We haven't really been in any definitive talks with -- or the developer has not been in any definitive talks with anyone in particular. Some things that have been mentioned are, you know, potential small healthcare location or -- or just general cafe, daycare -- any, quote, unquote, anchor tenants would be going out to like The Village or like out to Ten Mile or like a larger zone right now. But we do want to plan for, you know, a multi-tenant space that other -- other small businesses can -- can come in. But we haven't -- or there hasn't been any discussion with any, you know, anchor tenants. As far as that access -- so, we do have on the -- on the south property line there is that Rails To Trails path that is going to be landscaped and it's going to be fenced and separated from the UP property, because we also are concerned -- we don't want people wandering off into the -- into the -- the tracks either. The area to the south of that is for fire department access. We -- in one of our meetings with the city we were just talking about, you know, fire department access for this property, just to make sure life safety is taken care of and that that space would be used for fire department access in case of emergency and potentially open for busing. We, you know, have talked with -- understand that there is some potential opportunities with Valley Transit, so we wanted to do that and I know other, you know, potentials are, you know, some kind of a metro link type idea. I'm sure that that -- you know, if a real viable option came open that the owner of the property could -- could look at that. But right now it's just for -- for life safety purposes and -- and regional transit opportunities if -- if that goes -- goes forward. And, then, regarding the density, you know, we are really looking at -- for this -- this conditional use application we are really looking for the height and comment -- I'm sorry, I forgot his Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 25 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 22 of 60 -- or didn't write the gentleman's name down -- about the context -- the height of these buildings. I'm sure if you, you know, compared this building to a single family home that was built back in the -- you know, 1920s or '30s, yeah, it's a big scale difference. But I don't think that this structure is out of context. We have got the Valley Regional Transit building across the street to the north that does have some height to it. To the west we also have the -- the feed mill and Meridian City Hall that also have that height. It's just that we are bringing this height further out, you know, from kind of what's been established and been around for years. So, it's not an unusual contextual application for a height like this. So, as -- as we focus on and look at our request for exceeding the height of the Old Town zone, just like you to consider that. Any other questions? Holland: A couple of the questions I had written down here from public testimony. There were a few that were worried about the construction and timelines. Putman: Oh, yeah. Holland: Can you talk a little bit about what that construction process would look like. What street closures would maybe need to be part of that. Putman: Oh, that -- I guess -- yes, we agree with that. The construction of these two structures would not go on all at once. It would be more of a phased approach. We would start-- I believe, if I'm remembering correctly our initial conversations, starting on the east side. So, we have plenty of lay down space in the middle or -- you know. And, then, as we prepare the interim parking on the west. So, there is lay down space. So, street closures should not -- should be held to a minimum, because of that opportunity for construction materials and construction staging to happen on the property itself. If the project goes modular, again, that would ultimately shorten the overall construction timeline, again, because of the efficiencies of building something in a factory and bringing it out here. Much of the picking and staging could be done from on site. There might be some awkward, you know, times when we need to, you know, close down 3rd for a little bit, but that's, you know, typical for construction. But overall we are trying to manage that and mitigate disruptions or construction, you know, during --during that--that limited time that it's there, because, yes, it's going to be in general a disruptive process for -- for a while, but, then, it's done and -- and over. Holland: Thank you. A couple other questions I had on here. There was another couple questions about the tenant parking situation and does everybody that gets a unit have assigned parking within the building structure itself or are they just kind of doing free parking where ever they can find a spot? Putman: With -- with the lease of the apartment they will have a space, yes. So, that comes with -- it's not -- they are not having to, you know, pay extra for a parking spot, but they will have space. And a lot of these details are still being talked about. There will be some kind of control access for residents, most likely on the upper levels of the parking structure, just to make sure that those are designated for them and, then, there is going to be a mix on the ground levels. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 26 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 23 of 60 Holland: I don't know if you can share with us -- I noticed the west building has 185 residential units. The east building has 200 residential units. All kind of a mix of studio one and two bedrooms. Putman: Uh-huh. Holland: Do you have any examples of what the mix of that might look like? Are they -- Putman: Oh. I -- not off the top of my head. I know in the application documents we do have kind of the layout, the -- each floor plate is laid out. I'm sorry I don't have the numbers right off -- off the bat, but they are all -- it doesn't need to be stacked. So, what you see for one floor plate is what you would get on the -- on the other floor plates as well. Holland: Bill, I don't know if you still have the floor plate that was from the -- in the staff report that you can pull up so we could just take a look at it. Putman: Here we go. Let's see. I have got -- Holland: I think it's slide nine there was one of them. Putman: It looks like I have got -- in the west building per floor 12 studio units, 14 one bedroom units. One bedroom. Actually, 16 one bedroom unit. Seven two bedroom units. Yeah. I can flip through that here. So, it does favor more than one bedroom and studio in general. So here we go. Scroll up just a little further. Down some. So, on the east building showing the blue studio units there is 12 per level and one bedroom unit 24 -- actually 27. There are some unique units that we had to do for, you know, construction -- construction at the corners and 11 two bedroom units. So, it -- it does favor the one bedroom unit and, then, studio and, then, two bedroom. Holland: Okay. Putman: So, this -- this is meant for a demographic that's young -- young professionals, things like that. We are not necessarily targeting the -- the large family. Holland: Okay. And, then, I think we kind of addressed some of the questions about the -- the right of way and the rail line. I know Bill covered some of that. He made a couple of comments. But did you have any other comments there on the -- the right of way and working with UP and allowing them to still kind of do what they were doing there? Putman: Well, yeah, you know, we are not looking at -- at -- I guess we are not -- I guess impacting something --you know, rail lines directly according to our documents. We have shown these to UP. They haven't said any concerns about that, so -- Holland: Okay. Any other questions from the Commission? Commissioner Cassinelli always has questions. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 27 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 24 of 60 Cassinelli: Not right now. Holland: No questions right now? Okay. If there is no questions, then, we can have the applicant sit down and we can move to close the public hearing for deliberation, unless there is anything else we want to ask staff or-- I'm going to look at you to make sure that everybody's good with their questions answered right now. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Putman: Thank you. Holland: With that can I get a motion to close the public hearing for Meridian Station, H- 2019-0142, for deliberation? Cassinelli: So moved. Grove: Second. Holland: I have a motion and a second. All in favor. Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. Holland: Commissioners, I'm happy to go first or I'm happy to let others go first. Cassinelli: I will -- Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I will kick it off. Holland: All right. Cassinelli: Unless you want to. Holland: Go ahead. Cassinelli: I have a question for -- I know we are -- we are really just talking about height and not parking and a lot of the other issues are -- what's -- what's in front of us tonight is -- is height and I do have -- I tried to find it and I couldn't find anything to -- and I need some sort of comparison. Bill, do you have any clue the height of this building? Holland: Put you on the spot. Cassinelli: Can I send you up to the roof, throw a tape measure off. I mean are we under the 75 here? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 28 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 25 of 60 Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I can look up the original application, but I would imagine we are probably at 75 or in that range. Cassinelli: Okay. Parsons: I don't recall us going through a CUP for a height exception for this building. Cassinelli: Actually, I tried to find it, City Hall, and I couldn't. Thank you. My -- in looking at the height and everything, I mean I have got -- I have got strong concerns about a lot of the -- some of the issues and concerns that were raised. The -- the height is in -- in my mind -- and it was brought up by the applicant -- it's requested to be a hundred foot for the density and there is a lot of other places that we are looking at around Meridian that -- that have -- that are gaining density that -- that have the room to put in the density, have the -- have everything else, the infrastructure, not -- you know, not real narrow streets to handle the density. A couple of concerns that I have with --with the height and, number one, this is not -- we are not looking at five feet over for a tower or something, we are looking at a 33 percent increase in the height from 75 feet to a hundred --to a hundred feet. That will forever change the look of Old Town Meridian to go to a hundred feet. It will dwarf anything. The applicant stated Valley Regional Transit has some height to it. It's two stories. City Hall has some height to it. It's three stories. It will dwarf everything in here and it will change the look. I -- that piece of land has been sitting -- I mean when I moved here that Frontier Tire was still in business, but I have seen it go out of business and everything else around it. Yeah, I would love to see something go in. I don't mind the project so much. It's just -- I think it's way over what -- what -- what the infrastructure of that block can handle. And, then, the other aspect I have with it is we give an exception on the height to go to a hundred feet, where do we draw the line? That 75 feet is there for a reason. I think we need to stick within that and have developers -- the developer doesn't -- you know, they are -- you look at the owner, their business is not located in Meridian. They are interested in doing projects throughout the northwest. They are not interested necessarily in downtown Meridian and the livability and walkability of downtown Meridian. They want to get maximum value on that piece of dirt. So, if we approve the exception to go to a hundred feet, where do we draw the line? Who comes in next? Somebody wants another hundred feet. Somebody wants 120 feet. Where do we draw that line? And, again, that's going to forever change the look and the feel of downtown Meridian. I think that 75 foot height needs to stay hard. That's my opinion. Holland: All right. Well, I will go after you on that one. Parsons: So, Madam Chair, if I -- sorry to interrupt, but -- Holland: Please go ahead. Parsons: I found the original application for City Hall and on the application it stated 67 feet. Holland: Thank you, Bill. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 29 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 26 of 60 Cassinelli: Thank you. Holland: So, I will start with -- I was born and raised in Meridian. I spent a lot of time in downtown Meridian growing up. I went to church downtown. We went to Sunrise Cafe all the time after church. We -- we spent a lot of time in downtown Meridian. I have been vested in the city since longer than I can remember. When you look -- I get really passionate about economic development projects and I know how hard the city's worked to try and establish a really robust plan for downtown Meridian and I know we have got a -- an urban renewal district that does a great job of planning and they have done a destination downtown Meridian plan that I thought was pretty strongly laid out. I got the opportunity to serve on the Comprehensive Plan committee as we talked about what the vision for the city should look like and we have had lots of great conversations about what do we want our city to look like, not just now, not just the historical, but where do we want it to be in the future and I would love to see Meridian be the place that downtown is a central hub where -- there is not a lot of people that -- you know, there is a few restaurants in downtown Meridian that do a fabulous job and they are absolutely wonderful. What you typically find in economic development is the more restaurants you get in, even though people think that might be more competition, the better it is for the small businesses around them. That's typical in almost any community, the more density of products you get in a downtown core, the more opportunity you have for some of those small businesses. So, in general, actually, I like the density of the project, because I think one of the things Meridian has been lacking in our downtown is having that residential component where people can just walk downstairs and go to the neighborhood restaurant or go to one of the neighborhood shops on a Friday night, if they have got a special business open. I think we have -- we have certainly been missing that -- that piece of it and when you get a project like this I think it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for -- for Meridian to see a project like this, because I can tell you economic developers dream about projects like this every day. We try to work really hard to bring projects that are meaningful and I would disagree that this developer -- I mean I don't know -- I have never had conversations outside of this meeting with this developer on this project, but they are using a local architect that's based in Meridian, which I really appreciate. I think that shows a lot of dedication towards Meridian. I know that the -- the comp plan, the staff, they have worked really hard to try and come up with a good project here. I do certainly feel for some of the comments that were here and I really appreciate that the community cares so much that we show up and we are part of conversations, because I think that means a lot and that's part of the reason that I have called Meridian home as long as I have. I think that they -- they answered a lot of questions for me already about construction and timelines. I think they will try to be mindful as much as possible in how they do road closures when --when possible. When you look at the parking piece, I know it scares a lot of people to think about, you know, adding this much density and -- and do we have enough parking to cover it, but they have got over more than 200 stalls more than what our code requires and I think they were trying to be mindful in the way that they brought that forward and having a surface lot as well to service the project, at least for some of that retail component that comes in. So, I'm not as concerned on the parking side of things, because, you know, you are right, that Meridian has a limited number of street -- street spaces, but we are adding 200 additional spots that we didn't have in Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 30 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 27 of 60 Meridian before. So, I think that could actually help some of our downtown businesses more than they might realize now. That's just a couple of thoughts I have got, but this project could go forward without ever coming to us in code. It's -- it's a permitted use to go into the City of Meridian to do a tower like this. The only thing that they are not permitted to do is the height. So, that's really the main question in front of us tonight and because it's a conditional use permit we can certainly talk about some other conditions if there is other things that we are worried about. But they are -- they are asking for the vertical integration of the hundred feet instead of 75 feet and that's the main thing we need to consider. When I think about downtown developments, I -- when you look at where height should be, I wouldn't want to see height anywhere other than, you know, what we have got at the new Ten Mile interchange. I think that's a smart development where we have got lots of office buildings. They are working on integrating parking. They are trying to make a live-work unit there. We have got a design plan of what happens when properties surrounding that area in the overlay develop and how those come together. I think they have done a good job with that. I know Meridian's got a great plan when they look at downtown. Where -- where else can you get height and density? I think downtown is the place where you want to see that activity center. You want to see the community plazas. You want to see more living structures and residential and this allows us to add over 25,000 square feet of retail and office space to our downtown and that's not an insignificant number. If you look at what properties are available in downtown Meridian and you want to open up a small business, there is not a lot of spaces that you can go to, especially in this market. So, I like the concept of having more retail spaces. really like that not -- not many developers typically will pull off the live-work units where they have got the retail and office on the first floor and, then, they do the apartments above it. It fits really nicely for a downtown model. So, that's at least my general thoughts for now. But I will move on down the line and see if Commissioner Grover or Pitzer have any comment they would like to throw in. Pitzer: Madam Chair, I do. I'm really encouraged to see that something is being slated -- or being proposed for such an area that's been blighted for so many years. At least since I have been here. That Frontier Tires coming on and -- and it's encouraging to see them bring in some housing down here where it can be a hub. My fear is that we are losing -- we are losing what was going -- what was supposed to be Old Town with this extra height. I know that the extra height that they are proposing is because to accommodate for the parking. So, that's where I'm on this -- on this yo-yo here. I'm not really in favor of the height, but I understand that we are doing that to add the parking to help alleviate the problems that they are going to be facing without it, so -- I'm also concerned with the amount of people being that close to the railroad and, then, a path on -- on that south side would be a concern for me. Holland: Thank you, Commissioner Pitzer. I think you make a good point with the -- well, so one thing, too, is on the rail -- one thing to keep in mind is that it's not a Union Pacific main line, it's an offshoot. So, it's not as highly trafficked, it's -- it's -- it's a spur there. It's not as highly trafficked as other places are and I think because you have got the parking garage and some of that retail in the first couple of floors, they are elevated up enough above it that you probably won't hear the sounds of rail if there are any things coming Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 31 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 28 of 60 through in the middle of the night, if that is something that someone would be worried about. But I don't think our trains typically run too often in the middle of the night through that specific track. Pitzer: No, I don't think that was my main concern. It's that Rail To Trails path as a pedestrian path. Holland: I think that the other point you made that I think was a good point is, you know, they -- they certainly could move forward on this project if it was 75 feet without ever having to come in front of this body and one way they could do that is to eliminate a whole row of parking and maybe one row of the housing and, then, you would potentially have more challenges, because they could go forward with 200 less spots for this project than they are putting forward. Pitzer: That was kind of my point was that I'm -- I'm -- that's -- that was my fear. If -- if we close this out the additional, they may go -- move forward, put it in without the additional parking, so -- Holland: Thanks, Commissioner Pitzer. Commissioner Grove, the floor is yours. Grove: All right. I have a lot of probably strong opinions on this for a number of reasons. Just to put it out there, I -- I have worked in downtown for, I don't know, over five years. I live in downtown. I hang out in downtown. I have a personal interest in seeing what happens to this downtown and I guess some of the things that I have a real hard time with is we see the community changing around us and we want to hold onto the nostalgia of Old Town Meridian and the history of what this town was, but we also want to revitalize it and have strong small businesses that can stay in business and prosper over time. But those things contradict one another to a certain extent, that -- I have been down here and watch businesses come in and go out, because they don't have the foot traffic that's required and so what happens is you end up with businesses that don't necessarily require that foot traffic, which, then, reduces the vibrancy of downtown and so all that does is it pushes community gathering activity to other areas of our town, say The Village or Ten Mile as it grows out or outside of our community. To Caldwell where they are doing amazing work in revitalizing their downtown. To downtown Boise. So, all it does is the more we hold onto single family housing and businesses that have, you know, maybe four people walk in and out if they are, you know, doing -- I don't know. I don't want to pick on any one business. But let's say a law office, you know, you don't -- you are not creating that foot traffic that these other businesses require and you don't get foot traffic by having parking right in front of a business. You don't get foot traffic by having parking that is, you know, just for that business. You get foot traffic by having people move. People move because they are going from one place to another and if we don't have more of that that's a problem. Density is something that I am very passionate about having in downtown and finding ways to get that into downtown creatively and with this project removing that blight that is sitting there -- we all agree that is not a good look for anyone who's coming into our downtown core and so I'm excited about what, you know, this project -- other projects can do to help reshape that -- that look of downtown. We Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 32 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 29 of 60 lose other businesses as they start in our downtown and they have to leave downtown and go to either other parts of our city or out of our city altogether, because we do not have enough office space for people to grow. If you want to grow a business in downtown Meridian and have it be more than, I don't know, 25 employees -- beyond that you cannot stay in downtown, because there is nowhere else to move to. There are no -- no opportunities to grow business in our town -- in our downtown and so we -- density of business, density of residential helps maintain the business levels of these other businesses in downtown and that's -- I'm sorry, but that's something I feel really strongly about that I -- I understand what people are saying in terms of that -- the nostalgia and having like the downtown -- the old feel. The thing is we don't have a --what a lot of older towns have in terms of old infrastructure to revitalize. There is only so many buildings in our downtown that can be repurposed, revitalized, re -- changed into something new and so if we don't do certain steps as a -- as a community to make changes to retain that vibrancy, retain that -- the feel of downtown, we will lose all of that to other places in our city or outside of our city. This is a unique opportunity for us to make the steps to plan for the next 25, 50 years of what our downtown can be and we get to really help shape what that looks like moving forward. Some of the concerns that were brought before us I I -- I appreciate hearing. I also would encourage the businesses that spoke to continue to be involved in the Downtown Business Association where a lot of that information about projects is brought up and shared as people are thinking about ideas and being involved in -- in that way. It's a great way to be informed as a business of, so, you know, people that might -- one of the comments was I didn't know. That is one way in the future that you might have that opportunity to know some of those things ahead of time. Parking. I don't know how many people have come down to go park down here. I -- I have heard parking is a major issue. Every time I come downtown there is parking in the free parking lots and I come morning, noon, night, weekends. I -- it might be an education aspect, but there are always open parking spots behind COMPASS, VRT, along Broadway in -- in the Mason parking lot. There -- there are parking opportunities. Might -- they might not be directly in front of a business, which, you know, is what has been the norm for our city and I think that some of those views will have to change as -- as our downtown grows and matures and so I -- I appreciate the fact that parking is a concern and I agree that going forward we need to be vigilant in how we look at parking and find ways similar to this project to centralize parking and -- and make it more readily noticeable for people visiting downtown, but also people who live downtown, people who work downtown, that they know this is where you go to park. So, those are some of the things that I guess have been taking notes on, everything that was given in the application, everything that was presented both by the -- the -- by Jeremy, the architect, and by the -- all the community comments. I don't think that we can take any of these changes lightly, but we -- we have to be -- we have to be purposeful in how we change our downtown and if we go too small -- you can't go back and make this -- and say, man, I wish we had -- you know, instead of a single story building that we just put, you know, it's going to be a lot harder to -- to make those changes down the road to have that increased density and downtowns are a great place to have density. It creates community. We need that density of, like I said, both residential and office. It helps restaurants as Lisa said. You know, I like what you said about restaurants in terms of how they are not necessarily competing with each other, but creating a sense of space. I'm kind of paraphrasing, but -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 33 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 30 of 60 Holland: I will take it. Grove: -- you know, you are going to downtown to eat, you are not necessarily going to your one restaurant, getting out of the car right outside it, going in, eating, and, then, leaving, you are going downtown to experience downtown Meridian and I -- that's the -- the mindset that we need to have is we are bringing people to Meridian downtown to explore downtown, not to come -- come in, pop out, get what you need and pop right back out. We want to create that sense of place and, you know, this might not -- this is not -- this project is not going to solve that by itself, neither is any one single project. It's going to be a series of changes that are made in accord with, you know, one another and with the community to -- to make that sense of place for community in the long term. Holland: Thank you, Commissioner Grove. I have got a couple more comments and I see Mr. Cassinelli has a couple more as well. So, one thing I wanted to raise for all the small businesses here, too -- and thank you, again, for showing up and being a part of the conversation. There are some fabulous resources in the City of Meridian. I know Commissioner Grove mentioned the downtown association. We have also got a really active chamber. We have a very strong community development department here at the city that has also an economic developer. So, if you haven't had a chance to meet with them they can certainly help you through some concerns and brainstorm some different ideas of how to help your business. So, definitely take advantage of those resources. You know, I'm about to say a comment that I may regret, because it may not be a popular comment, but I have attended a lot of -- a lot of conferences, a lot of workshops, a lot of webinars about how to do downtown developments right and how to do community development and economic development and I had one guy tell me once -- and I will never forget it, because I -- it's one of those things that sounds contradicting, but they said you know that when you have got a parking problem you are doing something right in a downtown, because it means that you have got somewhere that people want to be and I would agree that right now whenever I come downtown Meridian I haven't found a challenge with finding parking. If I do have any challenge I -- I park maybe a block extra away, maybe two blocks max. But typically I have been able to find a space to be and be able to walk around. So, I think it might change the culture a little bit to add some of these newer denser products, but ultimately where -- where do we want to be in 20 to 50 years and it's not going to be this one project that changes Meridian, but, again, it's going to be a culmination of strategy, working together, helping to support our local businesses and the way that we help our local businesses is by shopping local and trying to help as much as we can support those local mom and pops and give people a reason to come downtown to support them more, so -- Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I want to say it's not that I'm -- I'm in support of developing that property big time. I like an idea of -- of retail, office, residential above it, I have no problem with that whatsoever. My issue is with the height and making the exception for the reasons of where do we draw the line and if we have said no to other people in the past over height, why -- why is this -- why do we give them this much extra height on this particular project. I want a vibrant downtown as well. I have lived in downtowns of -- of large cities where Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 34 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 31 of 60 it's been like that and where there is walkability. But I think we can do it at 75 feet. Ten Mile interchange -- correct me if I'm wrong, Bill, I think the height restriction there is 65. Parsons: Yeah. That is -- Cassinelli: And putting in -- putting in five story office buildings out there and we are -- and we are -- we are getting the density out there with the 60 -- with -- with that height restriction. We can do it. We can -- we can -- this project can be scaled. There is no reason it has to go a hundred. It can be scaled down and -- and still bring a lot of people and I'm -- I'm excited about the idea of having more restaurants, more shops. I like the -- I mean to see art galleries and other -- you know, more and more things in downtown and I think we can do it. I just think -- I think we can do it at 75 feet and I don't -- there is -- to me there is not a -- there is not some compelling reason that this has to go to a hundred feet and that's what's before us tonight is making that exception on the height. I believe that we can -- this, combined with other projects that are going -- that are -- that are going to be coming in, we will have -- I think we can get that vibrant downtown. I think we can bring people in and we do have to be careful and I think the one -- the one thing I have always been impressed with with downtown Boise is all their one hour free parking that they have and if you are there for two hours you pay for -- you may wind up paying for two hours, like two bucks or three bucks or something. It's reasonable. You can go in there and you can hang out for several hours. You can -- you are almost -- I mean it's gotten worse a little bit lately, but, you know, it's -- it's been pretty easy to get in there and find a spot even if you just want to run into a store or two. And, yeah, we want that, we want to be able to bring in -- still bring in people from -- you know, not just have this as a downtown only kind of thing for people that live downtown, but want -- but to bring in other people from --from --from outside of downtown and even from Boise and outlying areas. But, again, I -- what we are -- what we are looking at is the height and I -- and I believe full well that we can do this, keep it at 75 feet or under and I'm opposed to making the exception, because, again, where do we draw the line? Where do we stop making that exception. If we are going to make it for everybody let's change the -- change the plan and put it at a hundred, but it's -- it's 75, that's what it was set, and it's done that -- and it was there for a reason. So, Madam Chair, you can -- Holland: I want to make a couple more comments. I hear where you are coming from, because that's the standard. Respectfully I would disagree that -- I think that the hundred feet would be adequate for this project, because the thing I worry about is if you go back to allowing just the 75 feet, what's going to happen is they will eliminate maybe a floor or two of the residential, but they are also going to eliminate a floor of that parking, because they are not required to put in as much as they already did and by code they -- they could get by with that. So, I actually think in this case the height is what's adding the extra parking stalls for us in the downtown. So, I worry that if we don't allow this -- this to come through as presented, then, I think what may come through later, they are not going to be allowed another floor of parking later. I know parking is one of the most expensive structures to add when you are building up, which is why many developers don't do an underground parking lot when they are building a building, unless they have enough units to make up the reason why they can justify that and that's I think why they have requested Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 35 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 32 of 60 the height. But that's just my comment. I -- I wanted to make a couple other comments, too, about layout and the site design itself. I think they -- they set it back from the street just a little bit, probably so it wouldn't seem as abrupt if you are walking down Main Street or driving into Main Street. If I was designing the way that this complex is -- is laid out I -- I would just make a recommendation and not something that would need to be stuck in a motion or anything, but just comments. I would love to see more of the green space maybe on the front in the parking lot kind of between the two buildings, so that it's a little bit more buffered and maybe gives better access off Broadway, instead of being up on the front. But that's just a thought for consideration on, you know, how you -- how you put the site plan together and that's certainly something we would encourage you to work with staff on, getting some different comments there. But I always like to see more of the buildings or the green space on the frontage where you are driving down Main Street and see the parking kind of buffered in the back, if possible. But that's just a comment. So, think we have had a lot of deliberation and certainly our options tonight are to either have someone make a motion recommending -- or we are the deciding body on this. It's not going to go forward to Council. So, the options we have are to approve the application as -- as it's put forward in front of us to allow them to do the height variance. We could -- we could deny the project or we could ask for a continuance if there was more information you feel that we need to get from the applicant if we wanted them to go back and rework something, so -- Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I'm going to make a motion, see what happens. After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to deny file number H-2019-0142 as presented during the hearing of February 20th, 2020, for the reason that it exceeds the OT zoning district of 75 feet. Holland: We have a motion on the table by Commissioner Cassinelli. Pitzer: Second. Holland: We have a second. Pitzer: I do. Holland: Okay. Any further discussion on that motion? Okay. I would ask that we take a roll call on that vote. Roll call: Fitzgerald, absent; Holland, nay; McCarvel, absent; Cassinelli, yea; Seal, absent; Pitzer, yea; Grove, nay. Holland: We are split two and two. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 36 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 33 of 60 MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. THREE ABSENT. Holland: One thing we could look at doing is certainly if there is anything we can do to come to more of a conclusion, we are certainly welcome to keep talking about it if you would like or we could also look at the idea of doing a continuance until we have some other -- our other commissioners that could join us, since we are missing three of us tonight. Pitzer: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Pitzer. And one note, too, if you are making a motion to continue, we would have to reopen the public hearing to do so. So, if that's where you would like to go, we would have to make a motion to reopen the public hearing for the purpose of continuing it. Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, if I may. Not to -- to help give you some guidance if I may. Holland: Please, Bill. Parsons: Certainly this is a conditional use permit. Just a point of clarification for Commissioner Cassinelli. So, ten -- yeah, in the C-G zone the maximum height is 65 feet. But some of the buildings in the Ten Mile area are in excess of 80 feet -- 85, 90 feet tall and depending on -- Old Town is a little unique. It requires a CUP no matter what to get that height increase. In our other districts in the code you can do that through alternative compliance and at staff level and it doesn't even come before you and so in that particular zone that's what they did and they got a taller height. This isn't the case here. Now, you have a conditional use permit. You are right, you are the approving body for this. There is a couple things you can do. You can continue it as you may want to to get some other opinions. Two, you can recommend a lesser height. You can say I don't like 75 -- a hundred feet, but I like it at like 80, 1 like 90. Maybe you can open it up and see if the applicant has appetite for that, to reduce some of that height. Or you can recommend denial and they can appeal to City Council and City Council can take it under consideration or determine whether or not they feel a hundred feet is appropriate. But certainly don't -- don't feel like you have to -- I mean, obviously, make a decision of where you want to go, but I would just at least want to put that on the table that there are other avenues for the applicant on this particular application. Holland: Thank you, Bill. Grove: Madam Chair, can I say something? Holland: Commissioner Grove. Grove: So, I was just thinking about something that was said earlier about -- in terms of the height at the -- the Ten Mile versus here and how -- how that's accomplished and one Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 37 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 34 of 60 of the things that I think about when we compare something to -- let's say that development area is that that is all greenfield development. There is open space. So, to get that same amount -- even somewhat equivalent amount of square footage, you can go wider, you can go much more -- you can go horizontally more than -- you don't have to go vertical. Versus here in downtown you are going to be very, very limited in how wide -- how horizontal a structure can be. So, our density is -- is going to be determined by the verticality of projects. So, that -- that is why I -- I would -- that's why I approve this moving forward is we are -- we do have some hard limits that we are going to be running against in this and I understand, you know, there is the limit, but, you know, all of the comments that came in from the community were about parking and if we further take away parking from this project and exacerbate what is already a concern of the -- the businesses that are down here or the residents that are down here, I think that we are not necessarily improving that scenario, I think we are only going to make it worse. Holland: Thank you, Commissioner Grove. I know we -- we seem to be a little bit split up here on the Commission and I -- I would echo a lot of your comments that you just made there, too. I think downtown is a little bit more restricted, because, you're right, we can't expand -- we can't expand wide, we can only expand tall, and I think if we limit the height to 75 feet and, then, in, you know, 20 years we say, man, we are -- I wish we had one more floor of housing on this or I wish we had one more floor of parking that we could help support our downtown, that it will be too late to add anything then. So, I think that's -- that's one of my -- my heartburns and if -- if we are leaning towards denial, I would almost rather continue it, just so that we can have some other perspectives. Because this is not an insignificant project and I think Bill made some comments that if-- if we were to deny it they certainly could take action to appeal it to Council and I think that they would. It's a big project for Meridian. I think it's something -- you know, they have -- they have -- they have not taken it lightly and they have been thinking about it for a long time in how this corridor would develop over time. You look at some of the new buildings that we have gotten in downtown -- I think the COMPASS building looks really nice. They can add some architectural elements that keep it looking with the Old Town feel and have maybe some of that brick on there. They will have to work with staff on that. But staff does a good job of -- of making sure that they meet what the surrounding uses are. So, I'm not too concerned about that either. But I -- yeah, I don't know where -- where we would like to go, but if you prefer to go the route of opening it back up to talk with the applicant a little bit more and see if they would be willing to make any changes, we certainly could do that. Or we could look at continuing it until we have a larger Commission to consider it. Or we could open another motion if anybody else has something else they would like to throw out there. Pitzer: Madam Chair, I guess my concern was -- is that it is -- 25 feet, it sounds -- it sounds minor on the outside, but I'm taking it and saying -- I'm looking at this building and adding 35 feet to this building for-- for that purpose, which is, basically, across the street. And while it doesn't seem unreasonable on the outset, but I -- I propose that we continue the public hearing for -- for Meridian Station until we get more input. Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 38 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 35 of 60 Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: If I may make a comment. The -- the one comment that -- you know, looking back on this, if -- if we were to approve the hundred foot -- or set it at 75 and, then, we say -- I don't -- I don't know that we will come back and say, gosh, I wish they would have been 25 feet taller. On the flip side of that, if-- if we go a hundred feet and say, you know, this just feels like any other large city downtown, we can't make it smaller. There is two sides to that. There is two sides to that and I just -- this is -- this is not Boise. It's -- it's not another large city. I don't think that's why people moved here. They want -- there is --there is a lot of aspects of Meridian that I want to see maintained. I do want the vibrancy. It's not that I'm opposed to that. I just -- I fully believe that we can scale it. I think there is -- there is -- there is probably thousands of projects across this country of where we have got four or five floors and not seven, to where -- to where it could be done. I believe it can be scaled. I don't -- I don't know if we want to look at -- it sounds like we are split tonight. I don't know if we want to -- if this is something we want to wind up throwing on City Council -- throw it to them and have them be the decision maker, as opposed to -- as opposed to the four of us or -- I mean I would be open to continuing, too, and getting to another day to where we have possibly even all seven of us and I think that would be critical -- would be to have the entire Commission here. Holland: I don't think we have the ability to just throw it to City Council for the conditional use permit. I think that is up to this deciding body for -- for how to proceed with this specific request. It would only go to City Council if the applicant decided to appeal our decision. You know, one other comment I will make, too, is when you think about how Meridian has developed right now, we -- we have a lot of single family homes throughout the City of Meridian and sprawl is a big concern when you talk about growth and our roadways are getting more congested. You have got a lot of those roads -- I mean if you look at any of our roads that gets you around from one side to the other-- if you are trying to get from the freeway to Chinden, you have got to take some of those side roads and part of the challenge is we have got a lot of single family homes which spread us out. So, you get a lot of traffic that goes on those roads and one of the ways you help reduce that sprawl is by having more dense projects like this where you -- you have a couple extra floors of housing, so that people can be in a spot where they can do more of the live-work model and our downtown is -- is pretty close to the -- the interstate, it's easy to get from point A to point B if we did have somebody living here and working downtown Boise and would take people off of some of that north Meridian strain that we are feeling a little bit right now and I think I like the height, because I -- I believe in density for downtown development. I just think that it's -- it's smart planning for where you want to be in the future. But I know if -- we are beating a dead horse at this point and I don't know if we -- any Commissioners have changed their thoughts on that, but I would say if-- if we haven't changed one way or another, I would certainly take a motion if someone would like to reopen the public hearing to talk about a continuance. Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, would you like to open up the public hearing and get input from the applicant on whether or not they are -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 39 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 36 of 60 Holland: And I would -- Parsons: -- would adjust the request. Holland: Thank you, Bill. I would direct it in your motion if you are opening and continue, please, be specific about what you want to open the hearing for. So, if you say you want to open the public hearing and you want to hear from the applicant, be specific in that request that we are opening the public hearing to hear from the applicant and look at a continuance. Pitzer: Madam Chair, I move that we reopen the public hearing to hear from the applicant to see if we can get more guidance and see if he was able to give us some information as to what his other plans might be. Holland: I have got a motion to reopen the public hearing. Do I have a second? Grove: Second. Holland: All those in favor. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. Holland: The public hearing is open and we would ask the applicant to come back forward and speak with us once more. You certainly heard some of our deliberation. If you wouldn't mind stating your name again for the record, appreciate it. Putman: Certainly. Jeremy Putman. Madam Commissioner -- or Madam Chair, Commissioners, I guess we are not ready to talk about kind of height reduction, because we don't really know what that is. I guess we would be open to a continuance, you know, to bring this before more of the -- the Commission that may be available at a future time. Holland: Thanks, Jeremy. Any questions for Jeremy specifically that we would like to ask while he is up here? Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: We will start with Commissioner Pitzer, she had a question. Then Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Did you ever look at designing something with --within the 75 foot parameter? Putman: We did. It -- for -- for the developer it didn't pencil at that -- at that height. Cassinelli: When you say it didn't pencil, it didn't pencil financially? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 40 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 37 of 60 Putman: Correct. And, then, also, you know, there is the loss of parking stalls, trying to reduce that. Another, you know -- you know, a consideration in height, if the project is modular -- modular construction does have a thicker floor thickness, because you are actually building floor and ceiling assembly -- or you are building a floor assembly in one module and, then, the ceiling has similar structural requirements, so that naturally pushes it up. So, just as another advocate for the -- for the height. Trying to do this in a -- in a more sustainable and responsible construction method, that is just the reality of that type of construction as well. Holland: Thanks, Jeremy. Any other questions? All right. Thank you. So, at this point in time the public hearing is open, so if somebody wanted to make a motion to continue I would ask, again, that your motion be specific about what we are continuing to do and what we would open the public testimony for in the next hearing and we probably should ask staff what hearing date might be available, if that's the route we would like to go. Bill. Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, March 5th works great for me. I mean the staff report's done, you have our recommendation for approval. It's -- it's up -- it's in your hands now to deliberate and come up with a decision. Now, keep in mind -- you know, I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, just giving you options, but certainly this body could recommend a lesser height and the applicant -- with a recommendation of approval and they still could appeal that to City Council. It doesn't necessarily have to be a denial. So, if this body was comfortable more with 80 foot, 85, 90 and you approve the CPU with a 90 foot height limit, they could certainly appeal that request to City Council and have them change it from 90 to 100 as well. But I put that on the table for you, too. Or, again, you can continue it and wait for other Commissioners to weigh in. Holland: Thank you, Bill. Parsons: Yeah. There is nothing on staff end to do anything. We will just bring it back for deliberations and maybe the applicant can talk with their representatives and see what they want to do as well. Holland: All right. So, if anyone wanted to make a motion for March 5th -- it would be my thought that we wouldn't open it up for all public testimony again, I think you would just open it up for conversation with the applicant and deliberation among the Commission. I will leave it to you all if you would like to make a motion to continue. I can't make a motion. Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: A question for Bill. What is the calendar like on the 5th, as opposed to whatever the following -- the 19th. Holland: The 19th would be worse. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 41 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 38 of 60 Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the 5th would be --a couple of large projects on the 5th. So, we are looking at five projects for the 5th and I think there is potentially six on the 19th already. So, it's -- both are going to be full. But I don't see this taking that much longer if you do continue it. Sonya has two projects. I have two projects at hearing. So, this would be the fifth one carried over to the March 5 hearing. Holland: We are still open if anyone would like to make a motion or the other option is to reclose the public hearing and make a motion of approval or denial. Grove: I move to continue file number H-2019-0142 to the hearing date of March 5th for the applicant to present to the larger committee -- commission. Holland: Just -- if you don't mind I will -- I will re -- so we have got a motion on the table from Commissioner Grove to continue file number H-2019-0142 to hear from the applicant and for -- for the deliberation just with the Commission. Grove: Correct. Holland: I have got a motion. Do I have a second? Pitzer: Second. Holland: Okay. I have got a motion and a second to continue the public hearing. All those in favor? All those opposed? Cassinelli: Nay. Aye on the opposed. Holland: So, you have got three in favorite, one opposed. We will see that application again. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. THREE ABSENT. F. Public Hearing for Allmon Subdivision (H-2019-0135) by Todd Campbell Construction, Inc., Located at 5885 & 5875 N. Locust Grove Rd. 1. Request: Annexation of 10.03 acres of land with an R-8 zoning district; and 2. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 50 building lots and 7 common lots on 9.91 acres of land in the R-8 zoning district. Holland: All right. We will move forward now to the public hearing for Allmon Subdivision, H-2019-0135, by Todd Campbell Construction, and we will begin with the staff report. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 42 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 39 of 60 Parson: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The last item on the agenda this evening is the Allmon Subdivision. This is a request for annexation and preliminary plat that consists of 9.91 acres of land. It's currently zoned RUT in Ada county and it's located at 5885 and 5875 North Locust Grove Road. You can see on the future land use map that's before you that the property is currently designated medium density residential on our Comprehensive Plan. With that particular designation we anticipate densities between three and eight dwelling units to the acre. The applicant is here to -- proposing annexation with the R-8 zone and a preliminary plat consisting of 50 residential lots and seven common lots on 9.1 -- 9.91 acres of land in the proposed R-8 zone. Minimum lot sizes range from -- it's 4,161 square feet, with an average lot size of 4,692 square feet. Gross density for the proposed project before you this evening is 5.08 dwelling units to the acre. So, falling right in between that three to eight dwelling units to the acre. That density is 6.11 . There are existing structures on this particular property that will be removed upon development of the site. As you can see here access is not proposed to Locust Grove with this particular development. That is consistent with both the UDC and the ACHD approval. With the developments of the surrounding properties to the north and the south there were two stub streets provided to these properties to provide interconnectivity with the adjacent subdivisions. So, those are the access points for this particular development. Because this is a subdivision and it does exceed the five acre minimum, the applicant is required to provide ten percent open space. The project that is before you this evening depicts approximately 16.6 percent open space, consisting of a landscaping or walking path around the perimeter of the development and the landscape buffer along Locust Grove. The applicant is required to provide one amenity for the proposed development. In this particular case the applicant is proposing three amenities for the development, which is the internal walking path, there is a community garden with the plaza area, and, then, also along Locust Grove the city's master pathways plan requires a ten foot multi-use pathway and the applicant is extending that with this proposed project as well. I know the parking with the narrower lots and the narrow streets, the Commission and this body has had concerns with parking. The applicant did provide a parking plan for you to take under consideration this evening. Based on the schematic that's before you this evening, the applicant is able to provide 37 additional on-street parking stalls for this development. The applicant did provide sample elevations. What's unique about this development is these will be patio homes, so the applicant is proposing all single story homes for the development. Some of them may have bonus rooms, which, technically, are considered two story in the building code, but they are designed into the trusses of the unit, so it looks -- it gives the appearance of a single story. As part of -- because this project is not providing, you know, a lot for lot transition with the adjacent subdivisions to the north and south, they have that green space and the applicant's working with the neighbors and also supportive of the single story residences along -- within the development. We are recommending that as part of the development agreement in the staff report. And looking at the public record we did receive written testimony from nine residents in the area. Primary concerns were traffic through the adjacent neighbors -- neighborhoods. Safety for the children with the additional traffic. The residents would prefer a direct access to Locust Grove, rather than using the local streets that were stubbed to them and, then, also delay from the emergency response is one of the -- one of the other primary concerns. And, then, also would like them to have Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 43 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 40 of 60 more control of amenities or open space when the -- within the development. Staff is recommending approval of the development as proposed with you this evening with the requirement of a development agreement. The applicant is in agreement with the conditions in the staff report. Staff will conclude this presentation and stand for any questions the Commission may have. Holland: Thank you, Bill. Any questions for staff? No questions for staff. Would the applicant like to come forward? If you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record when you make it up here that would be great. Waite: My name is Dean Waite. I live at 4283 Nystrom and I work for Todd Campbell Construction, the applicant. Madam Chair, Commissioners, thank you for your time tonight and special thank you to Sonya and Bill and the rest of the Meridian staff that helped us through the process of getting to this point. Allmon Subdivision will be marketed as The Cottages at Serenity Gardens. Do you guys have the same thing before -- before you that I have? Okay. Holland: Yeah. Thank you. Waite: Do you have the little PowerPoint that says Serenity Gardens? They went through the location, but, yeah, we are just right there a quarter mile south of Chinden on the west side of Locust Grove. He also went through the surrounding zoning. R-4 is what the land is zoned to the north and south of us and R-8 is to our west. Being currently in the county we are proposing -- requesting annexation into the city and designation of R-8 zone, which is congruent with the Meridian Comprehensive Plan and the future land use map. Bill went through a lot of the points of the plat, but I just want to reemphasize what we are doing with the open space. As he stated, the requirement is ten percent and we wanted to -- we wanted a subdivision or a community that people feel good being outside and using the open space in their subdivision, so we have proposed a 20 foot landscape path that buffers both the north and south boundary and continues through to the -- the ten foot path out onto Locust Grove. So, we want to be able to create an area where people can go out and use and, then, be part of this and it will be heavily landscaped and also is a benefit not only to our subdivision, but to the neighboring subdivisions, providing that buffer between them and our housing. This is a short video to give you some perspective of what we are proposing. This shows a virtual representation of what The Cottages At Serenity Gardens will be and what we are proposing it to be. These are actually plans that we have designed to fit these lots that we intend to use in this subdivision. We are a custom home builder, so the exact design and location of which house goes on which lot and the selections of -- of how the homes are finished, that will be determined by the market and -- and by our individual home buyers. But this is how we would see this subdivision coming together. You can see we have proposed detached sidewalks and it gives you a visual representation of what that path will look like and -- and that landscape buffer. We have agreed to the conditions presented by Bill that we do only single story homes in this subdivision to help with the -- fitting in with the -- the landscape and other homes around it, with the exception for -- for bonus space with no -- no back rear-facing windows. Currently I would make a note that all of our plans are designed as street facing Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 44 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 41 of 60 level. There are -- we don't have any designs with a bonus space, but if the market demands it we would like to keep that opportunity open. Oops. This is another little perspective of that walking -- that buffer with a walking path. You can see where we plan on doing the wrought iron fence there and each home will have its own gate to be able to access that path. We hope to make it more usable. Sometimes subdivision amenities are just there and they are not usable. We want this to be something that our residents actually do get out and are able to use. It will be heavily landscaped with three different garden areas and we call one of these areas -- like this is a meditation garden with some seats, a feature -- water feature to help people enjoy the outside. We have a community vegetable garden plant as well and, then, some other flower gardens. I just wanted to emphasize the three things that I think are highlights of Serenity Gardens. The detached sidewalks and landscape walking path make it safer for residents to enjoy being out walking and also create that buffer between us and the neighboring properties. I just spoke of the three landscape garden areas that we will include in this subdivision and, then, also if approved as presented, the homes that we are building are -- they are high end luxury patio homes. Innovative design, award winning interior and exterior designs, and high end finishes. I believe that there is a strong demand locally for this quality product and that Serenity Gardens will be an asset to the City of Meridian and fit in well with the surrounding communities. Thank you. Any questions? Holland: Any questions for the applicant? Speak into your microphone, please. Pitzer: I'm sorry. What is the price point of your homes? Waite: We -- that's not determined at this point, but they will -- it will be well about 400,000, 1 would assume, by the time we start building these. Pitzer: Thank you. Holland: I have a question a little bit. If you wouldn't mind going back to the slide with the layout of your subdivision. I think it was one of your first slides in there. So, I think one of my only questions is on the cul-de-sac on the east side. You have got a number of homes that are sharing that cul-de-sac and, obviously, they wouldn't be able to park within that cul-de-sac, but what's the plan for trash carts? Would there be a dedicated spot for people to put their trash carts out? I just worry with that many homes in that one cul-de-sac there it might be a little tight. Waite: You know what, we have not -- I have not considered that portion of that yet. We did discuss the parking and that's why we created the parking plan. But I have not thought of or discussed the -- where the trash carts would go. I live on a cul-de-sac right now. It's not as dense as this cul-de-sac, but the units in the cul-de-sac we -- that we put ours around the corner of the cul-de-sac. We have I think five homes on our cul-de-sac. So, this would be significantly more than that. But there is space to -- where that cul-de-sac turns, it's got a long corner before the driveway would -- because there is no driveway in Lots 20 and 31 , you have that full length of that lot where -- where they could go. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 45 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 42 of 60 Holland: Did you think about possibly -- one thing -- and maybe -- and maybe we will get to that in a little bit, too. I'm sure we are going to take some public comment, but when we look at the area on the east, I don't know if you guys would be willing to consider a couple less lots there to -- to put a little less strain on that cul-de-sac, but -- I don't know if you have any comments on that or if you would be open to considering something a little less dense on that corner there. Waite: That would be -- I wouldn't be able to make that decision standing here before you, but, obviously, what we are proposing is what we want. Holland: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant right now? Cassinelli: Madam Chair. Dean, had you -- a couple things on the parking, on the -- the on-street parking. First of all, is -- is the street width, is that standard residential street width there? Waite: Yes. Cassinelli: Okay. So, it's not -- not narrow. So, it would be parking on both sides? Waite: Right. Cassinelli: Okay. And it's -- the -- the lots are tighter, so there is going to be less room. I mean are we -- did you design that around 37 Priuses or -- Waite: No. Cassinelli: -- 37 Suburbans. Waite: Using the Meridian UDC. Yeah. Cassinelli: Okay. Waite: There is a certain -- Meridian designates what is a parking space. Cassinelli: Okay. Well, I know it's not going to be stripped or anything out there for that, but it is -- you are considering full length -- Waite: Oh, yeah. We use the Meridian designated parking space. Cassinelli: Okay. Great. Holland: Thank you, Dean. Any other questions? Okay. I'm sure we will be talking with you in few minutes. Thank you. Appreciate it. I would like to -- we are going to open it up here for public testimony as well and just a couple of comments I want to make before we do so. There was some written testimony that came into us, so we do read all that Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 46 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 43 of 60 and we really appreciate all of your -- your time and your thought and your energy. One big question that came in was access to Locust Grove. So, I just wanted to address that now and certainly if staff had any comments they could make those, too, but ACHD -- if you read through their staff report they don't allow access off of this specific section to Locust Grove. They -- they had those stub streets there for a reason to -- when this person would develop that it would be an in-fill sort of project. So, I don't know that we will have the ability to -- to look at having them have access directly onto Locust Grove, so I wanted to just kind of make that point, but certainly we will take all public testimony and would love to hear from all of you. But I know we have got a number of folks signed in. We asked earlier if anybody was speaking on behalf of a homeowner's association or representing more than one person. I would ask that maybe we start with that -- that group first if we can. But if you would raise your hand if you are representing a larger group and other people are ceding their time to have you speak for them. Okay. We have got one gentleman. Okay. Then if-- if there is not a show of hands of who is --who you are representing you will have the three minutes, but if -- if anybody would like to cede their time to this gentleman if they could raise their hands. Okay. Then I would say we would let him have that ten minutes if he would like to. Let's go ahead and have you come up first, sir, if you wouldn't mind. Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Are they clear that if he gets ten, then, everybody else is -- Holland: Correct. Those that raised their hand are ceding their three minutes, so that this gentleman can have up to ten minutes and everybody else that would like to testify you still have the ability to testify for your three minutes. Rountree: Good evening. My name is Tyler Rountree. I live at 1098 East Pasacana in the Arcadia Subdivision, which is located next to the proposed development. So, I put together a quick PowerPoint. Like some of you, I have lived in Meridian my whole life. So, a little bit of history out in the north corridor on where this development is being proposed. So, Arcadia is the R-8 that's right there in the middle of the PowerPoint and I'm going to use pieces of each of these. This one's a little clearer now, obviously, than, the one that we just looked at before. So, Reserve is the subdivision that's on Commander that's immediately to the north of the proposal. When we moved into our house in '07 Reserve and Arcadia both had come online and people were moving into there about the same time. Unfortunately for us we bought our house right as the market started to turn in '07 and the market started to get really volatile. Most of the homes in Commander were full. The first six houses on each side of that street -- so two past the roundabout was all that was there. So, it was us and them out in that north core. The interesting piece with Reserve is Tahoe Homes was the one who developed both developments and Tahoe wanted to make Commander a street that came in and turned into a cul-de-sac and went back down into the proposed development that is to the south in 2005. So, here is some zoning notice that I was able to find. Mr. Centers actually debated with P&Z for over a year to try and prevent the thoroughfare to be established to Jericho. He did not want that to happen. At the time in '05 they had slated that there would be at least 500 residents utilizing that connection to Locust Grove and Mr. Centers did not want to be part of that. So, he sold the back five acre parcel and he just developed Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 47 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 44 of 60 the first six and that sat that way and the market got volatile. So, Jake had the first six, the back half was left undone, and he actually owned the northern portion and had plans to develop it and, then, everybody knows what happens in '08. It got really bad. So, the market crashes. So, what does the market crash bring? Well, for us the upper portion of the bottom photo on that aerial photo was an apartment complex. The developer came in, put in all the infrastructure in that, and it went -- went to a new owner. It sat for years. The worst part about that was -- is that became a major drug exchange on that north highway corridor on Chinden and stuff from Canyon county into Boise, that was the hub. It was terrible, because there wasn't anything out there, other than that asphalt and foundations. That's it. The R-15 density that is in the -- the map now was to be part of the R-8 density that was next to it as Hightower and that went back to the bank, too, and it sat. The plat expires. So, Reserve had those six houses. Mr. Centers still had that five. So, what did he have to do? He had to sell at auction that piece and it went away. If he would have developed it it would have developed out and been part of Reserve Subdivision. But things happen. It's gone. So, where are we today? The apartment complex that's up there, CBH Homes bought that and CBH Homes actually helped us out. They built the apartments out, but it was a bit of a fight, because CBH Homes wanted to come in and double the density and we bantered about it. P&Z approved it. It went to Council. We bantered about it again and Council actually denied the request to expand the apartment complex two fold in that area. That happened about five years ago. When the developer came in the moon was too close for him. The things he promised were unbelievable and this is what we have existing today. The parking requirements met the UDC. There are not enough. There is not a book to explain to you what happens in projects like this. People cannot afford as a family to live in an apartment. So, there isn't a mom and a dad and a couple of kids -- there is a mom and a dad and a couple of kids and two or three other people that live there. So, the overflow parking now conveniently has the asphalt that was supplied from the light office that this other parcel is approved for. So, they -- they have parking, they just don't have enough. Once the office space goes in, if that ever happens, it's going to be a mess for parking. We already have people parking on the street because of the overflow in some of these high density units that are out in this north core. So, the R-15 piece was a piece that CBH Homes bought also and CBH Homes came in front of P&Z and said we need to increase the density to R-15 to make this pencil. The economy was terrible. We as homeowners supported that. I live right up against Tallinn Street. I have homes 12 feet from my back fence that are two stories tall. But we bought it. The economy was terrible. They replatted it and it sat. So, you can see the picture attached to that. That was our street two weeks ago. It was impassable for a week. You can see conveniently that the framers are framing in the front yard of the house across the street. I got no help from ACHD. I got no help from Meridian police. I got no help from Meridian code enforcement. The school bus actually had to turn around and find another route to pick school kids up one morning through this construction project. We have endured density in this north core and we picked part of it. Right? That's how we got here. So, this subdivision is not even --they built the perimeter out, but the center core --there is 24 more duplexes that are going into it, we haven't even seen the effects of traffic from this yet and the irony in this is ACHD says pretty much the same thing every time. It's not that bad. Much like this one. It's six percent. So, a few more cars. Not that big of a deal. Well, I can tell you what, there is some people sitting Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 48 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 45 of 60 behind me that it's a big deal for, because Commander is a main thoroughfare and ACHD assured us when the apartments went in that that wouldn't be a course of travel for people living in the apartments. They would go out to Chinden and go out on Chinden. Well, don't know if you have tried to get out on Chinden at 7:30 in the morning, it's impossible. So, they come through Commander or they go on down through our subdivision into Saguaro Springs that was also part of the foreclosure process, who has now had speedbumps put through it to get around the chicane or the roundabout, however you want to treat that. The traffic -- we haven't even seen the effects of what's -- what's coming. We have just finally finished up with somebody who has decided -- that is living in this new development that's selling used cars out of his residence was okay and there was enough on-street parking to park his used cars and so we finally got that cleaned up. So, ACHD makes the traffic comments. It's at an F. It's over already. But it's under the ten percent threshold at six percent. But when you go back to 2015 and you look at the increase in density on that one piece where Barton's built, we haven't even seen that hit the streets yet. Those haven't even sold. So, they are going to hit the streets. There is going to be more cars for that. We got six more percent over here. So, as these little percentages get approved because they are under ten, those stack up and we are not keeping track of what little we have already let through. The open space. I think it's great and I commend Todd for what he's done with open space. It's great. But there is a cost to open space. So, Meridian PD's comments, you have to have natural observation opportunities. So, I took the opportunity to take a photo of our common area in Arcadia. So, we have common area to the left side of that picture. We have common area to the right. And I would ask you does that look like open space to you? It does to me. Here is the center of our subdivision. That's open. Holland: If you can work on wrapping up your thoughts, too. Rountree: Because we are conveniently located with Central High School, that is the overflow for places for kids to do what kids do and it has become an issue every spring, every fall for the high school. So much that Officer Sonata is in my phone and I just call him up and say, hey, you have got kids over here hanging out in the common area again doing things that kids do. So, really for us the -- the point with this would be I think that -- I'm fine with the development. Todd Campbell needs to develop it. But I think the density needs to match what it's around, not to double it up two fold. Two to one is what he's proposed. Some things that came out of our neighborhood meeting he assured us that, you know, he can make this happen. He's -- super nice homes. That's all great. And the parting comment, two -- two pieces is is Meridian has to have density. Got to do that. That's important. Got to make it happen. Money. Money. Money. And be careful what you wish for, because it could be CBH that comes in to develop the property. So, with that I stand for any questions. Holland: Thank you. Appreciate it. If you all wouldn't mind, hey, this is a public hearing, so we try to do what we can to -- we don't do clapping. We don't do hooting and hollering if possible. We try to keep it respectful. We are all volunteers here on the Commission. We are here to listen to all of your concerns, but we want to keep a respectful process for the applicant and for all public testimony. So, thank you for that. Was there anybody else Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 49 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 46 of 60 that wanted to testify for a larger group that was having others cede their time? And if you would stand up. Is anybody willing to give their time? If no one else is raising their hand we will give you three minutes. So, you have got three minutes and state your name and address for the record for us, please. Hanson: Thank you, Madam Chairman and Commissioners. My name is Renee Hanson, president of Saguaro Springs HOA. My address is 1435 East Tuttle Street, Meridian. And the homeowners of Saguaro Springs is requesting that this be denied, again, because of the density and I'm not understanding -- we didn't understand that ACHD had already refused the entrance onto North Locust Grove Road. If we could have an answer to why that is, because you are directing -- or I'm sorry. Excuse me. That would direct traffic into our neighborhood and we are not so much opposed to the subdivision as, again, the amount of homes and the additional traffic. It's already bumper to bumper traffic going through our neighborhood at rush hour. Four years ago we were exceeding 300 cars at the high traffic times and this is four years later. So, it -- it's way beyond that. Yeah. So, if we could have -- if there is some way we can work with ACHD on getting that entrance onto North Locust Grove Road opened up, that's mainly our main concern is the traffic and the traffic that would be created through this new subdivision. We would prefer if Meridian could see it as an open space or a park or something like that, which there is -- there are none up in that area. Thank you. That's all, really, the time I need, because I know there are other people that want to speak. Holland: Thank you. Bill, I don't know if we want to answer that question now, but the question about ACHD and -- and how we allow accesses in and out of developments and how we do long-term planning, if you want to answer -- Parsons: Sure. Holland: -- why we limit those accesses. Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, members of the audience, it really comes down to restricting access points to arterials in conflicts to that roadway. The more curb cuts and conflicts you have to the road the more you add to the congestion and you slow down traffic. So, in this particular case there is an access that's provided to the north to Reserve that goes out to Locust Grove and to the south and it was Madelyn Estates, I don't know what they market it now, but there is another collector road that feeds out to Locust Grove. So, when we look at what's currently built in the area there is adequate access for this development to use the existing local street network to gain access to the arterial and so the city has rules and regulations and one of those rules is to restrict access to our arterials when local streets provide it. In this particular case when the adjacent subdivisions came in those stub streets were set in order to provide -- prevent additional access points to Locust Grove. It's just safer for everybody to use local streets and get to collect roads out to arterial roadways. That's how the system is set up. So, right now the way ACHD is looking at this, the way we are looking at it, it's functioning the way it's been designed to and so there is no additional need for another access to Locust Grove. The traffic will disperse adequately throughout the adjacent subdivisions. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 50 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 47 of 60 Holland: Thank you, Bill. One other comment. I'm going to have Madam Clerk here go through the list of who has signed up to testify next, but if you have heard a comment made that's something similar to what you want to say, we certainly want to hear all of your comments, but we hear that there is concerns about traffic and there is concerns about congestion. So, if you have got new facts, those are the things that we really want to hear. Certainly we would love to hear from you, too, but -- Madam Clerk, do we have sign-ups? Weatherly: Thank you, Madam Chair. Six others have signed up to speak tonight. Ron Nead. Holland: Please come forward and state your name and address for the record. Nead: Madam Chairman, Members, my name is Ron Nead at 1421 East San Pedro Street. That's in the Saguaro Springs Subdivision, which used to be Madelyns, and I'm a retired civil engineer and I have done a lot of developments in California and everything else, so I have experience with this. I have no problems with the development of this property. What I have a problem with and, then, what -- what is it before this board at this time is the zoning and that's what we are addressing is annexation and zoning. My review comments are the zoning. The current development on the north and south side, as you have already been instructed, as indicated, is R-4, like the previous comments were made. The subdivision on the east side, which the previous speaker before indicated Arcadia, is R-8. However, it was developed into an R-4 density. There is only about 3.75 unit per that ten acre parcel. So, what you are looking at is putting an R-8 development within an R-4 area -- completely R-4. Even though it says R-8, it has been developed to R-4 consistency. The parcel size of the proposed development is approximately ten acres. The width of it is over 300 feet. About 1,200 feet long. It's identical to the Reserve. They are both almost the same shape. The Reserve has 26 units on it. This one's doubling it -- almost doubling it to 50 units and so I think what happens is what we need to talk about, especially-- it was brought up previously-- is traffic concerns is the part that these can be mitigated by reducing the density. The density is the big item here. For me anyway. The density is going to affect the traffic flow. The density is going to affect parking. You know, they mention all the parking they want, but when you have 45 foot lots and a driveway for 20 foot and a 20 foot, your losing -- your -- it's going to be hard to find a parking place. My conclusion is the proposed development is incompatible with all the adjacent developed subdivisions, which have been developed to conform to R-4 zoning. The R-8 zoning request should be denied and changed to R-4. This would reduce the traffic flow as well and allow for more parking and also probably allow for more open space that is consistent with the adjacent subdivisions and as you stated earlier, you're for high density. Downtown's ideal. Thank you. Holland: Madam Clerk. Weatherly: Madam Chair, Velma Nead. Holland: Okay. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 51 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 48 of 60 Weatherly: Thank you. Renee Hanson. Sorry. Valerie McElrath. Holland: And, Valerie, if you wouldn't mind stating your -- your full name and address for the record we would appreciate it. McElrath: My name is Valerie McElrath. I live on 1448 East Tuttle. So, I live on a home that will back up to this development. I have to say I was happy to see that walking path. I do have a question for the developer. The two properties are at different elevations. So, my fence sit's higher than the property below. I want to know what they are going to do to address that elevation change where they are putting in the walking path. Is there going to be a retaining wall or some other thing done there? So, that our fences aren't falling over or, you know, it's -- I think it's going to be a problem. Also we have already talked about the traffic, but I don't know if you have driven through our neighborhood before, you come in, you have to turn right through an unmarked intersection, which people do not yield properly already, then, you have to immediately turn left through another unmarked intersection where people don't yield. Go over the speed bump -- but you don't go over the speed bump, everybody's figured out you drive up the middle of the road, because, then, you don't have to go over the bump. So, now you have people in the middle of the road that have not yielded and, then, they have to go around the roundabout, which I doubt people are going to use that, they are going to cut the corner and not go around. So, there is a lot of traffic issues going through there. We also have a cul-de-sac there in that area where you have to go through. When people have large gatherings cars park on that short section of road on both sides. So, people coming in who now have to turn there, it's one car at a time. So, you can't do those turns. I don't know how the fire department will do those turns if there is people parked on both sides. I have talked about elevations. I think parking code is wrong. I don't know who can address that. All you have to do is drive by Prelude and we have a huge parking code problem. These people say they are matching parking code, but it's not enough. They are going to end up parking at our pool as they flow out of their neighborhood and fill up all of our parking spaces and just my final comment, really, you need to do density in the right areas. I don't think this is it. Thank you. Holland: Thank you. You still got a couple seconds left. You're good. McElrath: So, the other thing -- you talk about ACHD not wanting access to that road. The church has two driveways. I mean if you don't want that many driveways coming out why did you give them two? And, then, Locust Grove is eventually going to be widened; right? There is going to be two-way turn lanes down that thing. It's going to be big enough to handle the traffic. Our neighborhood can never be widened. It is what it is and this decision is huge, because once you make this decision it can't be fixed. If you go high density we can't take floors off, we can't undo this. So, thank you. Holland: Thank you. Weatherly: Madam Chair, Judith C. I didn't want to butcher your last name. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 52 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 49 of 60 Holland: Judith, if you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record again. Calle: Judy Calle. 1488 East Commander Street. I agree with everybody else. The traffic is going to be ridiculous. I'm watching this traffic continuously. We have been there eight years and with all the high density building that they have put in on Jericho, we are going to live with that. We cannot live with this development also and the poor people that are going to buy those homes, they are on top of one another. That's not fair to people and to kids who want a yard to play in. So, I am opposed to it. I'm sorry there is not more people -- there were some people from our subdivision earlier, but they left, because they had to get home to kids. But, really, please look at this. You're -- you're just strangling all of us. Thanks. Holland: Thank you for being here and for your comments. Weatherly: Madam Chair, Mike Prata. Is there a Mike? Cheryl Jones. Holland: We are striking out. Weatherly: That's all I have. Holland: Okay. Weatherly: Thank you. Holland: Would anybody else that didn't have a chance to sign in like to testify? Sir, go ahead and come forward and state your name and address for the record. Munzer: My name is Jerry Munzer. I live at 1275 East Tuttle Street and I have been talking with the police department about your issue with this -- not having any access off of Locust Grove and he was very shocked that you let this go through like this. He said I don't understand why they are going to have all these policemen and fire department cut through our neighborhood. Right now I have an average of 135 cars go through the street that I live on. Now you want to bring in another 200 cars. It isn't working. My grandson has almost been hit once, but, no, you don't care about that. You want more density. So, you need to put a street coming off of the Locust Grove, which is going to be widened and it's going to have a center section, so you can make a left-hand turn and you need to cut down these homes, because if they are not friendly retiree homes, we have a community pool that we pay for and why should I have to pay association fees because the little kids are going to jump the fence and destroy the property that I have paid for. We have had the kids from Saguaro Canyon come in, jump the fence and break all the lounge chairs and so forth. So, are you going to bring 50 more homes, plus the kids, plus the damage, I will send you the bill. Thank you. Holland: Would anyone else like to testify tonight? Come forward. State your name and address for the record, please. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 53 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 50 of 60 Storch: My name is Matthew Storch. I live at 1135 East Tuttle Street. Just one quick thing. All the exodus streets that they are proposing have roundabouts there and there are -- the roads are pretty narrow there. You know, you can barely get a car through. You can't get through if anybody is parked there. I'm concerned about how they are going to get the construction equipment through there to build these homes if there is no access from Locust Grove. I can't see how they are going to take a long tractor trailer or something carrying trusses or whatever and make those turns and get around through the streets and if they are backing and filling through there during rush hour, then, all of us are going to be late to work. That's all I wanted to say. Holland: All right. Last call. Any other hands? Okay. With that we will have the applicant come back forward to answer some of those -- those questions and concerns. Waite: Do I need to restate my name? Dean Waite. Holland: Thank you, Dean. Yes, if you will restate it. Waite: The main concern was traffic and what I would -- my answer to that is that we are proposing -- it's about five units to the acre. We are asking for an R-8 zone because there is not an R-5 zone and so we are right in the mid range of what is proposed by the Comprehensive Plan and the first comment from Tyler asking about the parking plan and us going to the minimum, we are not going to the minimum parking. I was stating -- Mr. Cal -- Cassinelli, sorry, his question about the size of those --those parking spaces, there will be 237 parking spaces for 50 homes if you count garage, driveway, and the 37 extra spaces. So, there is going to be significant amount of extra parking in this subdivision. Another comment was made that -- with the other further development around, that the traffic threshold is -- is -- or the traffic's getting greater and our -- that threshold at six percent that he's talking about is our contribute -- contribution to the local traffic is going to go down as that develops, because we -- you know, our number stays the same as the other traffic rises. So, our threshold and commitment to that gets lower -- further away from ten percent as more development happens. There was some other questions about the size of the lots and the density of this project. We feel that there is -- it's important that there is different types of product available. There was a high demand for this smaller lot, downsizing patio home type product, and that's one of the reasons that we are doing this product is because it's going to be in high demand and sell quickly. I didn't quite get her last name -- McElrath asked the question about the elevation change between properties. There will be a grading plan that is presented by our civil engineer as we present this. The existing fences we are proposing to remain intact, so there won't be any change with that. We will grade up to them and match the -- as close as we can the -- with the landscaping that we are doing. And the last -- Jerry brought up the issue with families and kids doing damage. Our -- obviously, we can't dictate who buys our homes, but this product is -- is geared toward retirees and downsizers, people that don't have large families and make a big impact on -- on traffic and/or kids running around, but -- so, our target market is people that are not going to contribute to that as much as -- as average. And that's -- I think I answered the questions that I heard. Was there any other the questions that you had that came up that you would like me to address? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 54 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 51 of 60 Holland: Does the Commission have any questions they would like to ask? Waite: Oh, there was a question that I didn't write down about the cul-de-sacs. There is no parking in the cul-de-sacs. We will -- we are required to put no parking signs in that -- in that cul-de-sac and the common drives. Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Dean, a couple of quick questions. What -- what is the average size of the home? Square footage. Waite: Well, we are not proposing the home sizes. But the plans that we have the average is 1,800 to 1 ,900. Cassinelli: Okay. Thank you. And did you look at -- did you look at platting this out to R-4 at all and, if so, how many homes were you -- would that -- Waite: We considered several different designs of this subdivision. I didn't -- I'm not prepared to -- to tell you what -- I don't know what -- what was your question? How many would it be? Cassinelli: If you were to go R-4 what -- what would the -- what would you drop down to? What -- if you had looked at that. I mean -- Waite: Yeah. No. Less than 40. That's all I could say. I don't know. We did not consider -- I don't remember a plat that we considered that was R-4. Cassinelli: Okay. Thank you. Holland: Commissioner Grove. Grove: Madam Chair. I had a question. You said this is geared to, but not restricted to -- it's not like a 55 and over community. Is that how I understood that? Waite: Correct. Yes. We -- in the patio home developments that we have done in the past in Meridian and Boise, I'm just -- our -- the buyer that we see most often is -- are single individuals and/or retired couples. But, no, we are not designating this as any age restrictions or anything. Holland: Any other questions? All right. I think that's it for now. Waite: Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 55 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 52 of 60 Holland: Thank you. And -- I'm sorry, we were done with public testimony at this point, so -- the process that we go through is we typically open it up -- the applicant starts first, then, we open up to public testimony and, then, we allow the applicant to kind of have some rebuttal comments. So, I -- I'm sorry, we can't -- you can certainly answer -- ask any questions of the planning team later. We won't be able to take anymore public testimony for tonight, but we appreciate you all being here. So, with that I would -- I would take a motion to close the public hearing for Allmon Subdivision, H-2019-0135. Cassinelli: So moved. Grove: Second. Pitzer: Second. Holland: Okay. Got a motion and a second. All in favor? All opposed? MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. Holland: All right. Who would like to go first? Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: A couple questions for staff. Bill, the -- is -- is Commander designated a collector? Do you know? Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I don't believe that street is, but let me look on our GIS map real quick and I will get you that -- Cassinelli: And, then, I had another question for you, too. Parsons: What's your other question? Cassinelli: Did you -- I'm assuming you guys -- you looked at the transition from four to eight, the lot sizes on both sides and -- maybe if you got some feedback on any of the concerns that you had on that. Parsons: Yeah. Certainly I'm happy to kind of provide staff's rationale and -- as far as supporting the smaller lots. Yes. In the Comprehensive Plan we have policies that encourage transition and when we have the ability to do that, a greater -- a larger development, something more acreage, we typically do that. We want you to kind of blend in with the surrounding and, then, feather into your smaller lots. This particular lot is an in-fill lot. So, if they were to come in with an R-4 lot I think the residents were very accurate, they would lose half the lots. That's -- it's easy math. They are 4,000 square foot lots, you need an 8,000 square foot lot in the R-4 zone, you are going to lose half the Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 56 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 53 of 60 lots. You are going to come in at similar to or exactly what the Reserve looks like, 26, 27 lots at the most on the -- on the site. So, that's -- and so when Sonya and I -- we did our analysis -- when staff looked at the analysis we felt that the buffer along -- at least the north and south portion of the site is 30 feet wide, it provides that adequate transition. So, staff's recommendation wasn't to do lot for lot, it was to say, well, we have this nice open space and green space between the units, plus a backyard, so there is adequate separation. So, therefore, the common open space would --would make a --just as good a transition as it being a lot -- one lot per lot. So, that's where staff's recommendation -- and the fact that the applicant's willing to restrict themselves to 25 feet in height, which typical zone is -- as you heard testimony from Mr. Rountree, he said that he has a two story home 12 feet from his property line and that's not very attractive sometimes. So, this developer at least is willing to restrict some windows if we have a bonus room and we are willing to keep ourselves to a single story, in our minds that -- that provides some adequate transitioning and that's why we support the R-8 and the density that's proposed before you this evening. Cassinelli: Thank you. Holland: Any other thoughts you want to share, Commissioner Cassinelli? Do you want to go around the room first? Cassinelli: I can -- I can just throw out some thoughts. I'm -- I'm torn. I think it's -- first of all, I'm familiar with -- with Todd Campbell's product and I have got some in my neighborhood and we had looked at -- at some. It's a -- it's a good product. It's a really good product. The patio homes I think are going to cater to -- they are going to cater to an older crowd. Fewer children. And particularly at the price point I think that these are going to come in at, I think that's probably going to play out. I think the -- if this goes through, I -- I honestly think that the neighbors would probably be pleasantly surprised at the quality of this -- of the homes in there and I think that will probably -- you know, you are going to get probably an older mix of people. You are not going to have younger kids that are driving fast or -- I get it down my street. I get -- you know, 7.30 in the morning everybody's racing to get their kids to the -- to school, the bus stop and stuff. So, it's -- it's crazy through my neighborhood. I know what that's like. On the flip side it's critical to listen to the residents of Meridian. These are the stakeholders, these are the taxpayers, and this is coming in the middle of -- of two R-4s and I get that. So, that's kind of where I'm at right now. I want to be -- my issues with -- with ACHD have been expressed time -- time and again from up here and it was -- it was stated earlier, I'm not going to -- I'm not going to say that, but I do have concerns with the way ACHD looks at things. But I'm torn, because I think it is going to be a good product, I think it's actually going to be beneficial. I don't think the travel -- I don't think it's going to be as bad as some of the people think, but I would like to -- I do have a concern on that. You brought up the cul- de-sac and I think that cul-de-sac has to be taken down, I guess -- it's way too much. I think there is -- there is issues with that. But those are some of my thoughts. I -- it's -- it's a good product, it's -- but, again, I -- it's critical to listen to the neighboring residents and so I have got a concern there. So, that's kind of where I'm at right now. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 57 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 54 of 60 Parsons: So, Commissioner Cassinelli, yeah, that-- Commander Street is not-- is a local street. It's not a collector. Cassinelli: Thank you. Holland: Thanks, Bill. I could dive in with my thoughts, unless one of you wants to go first, but -- Grove: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Grove. Grove: Kind of echo what Bill said in terms of the -- the density. I would prefer that it match the R-4. I see why it doesn't based on, you know, what's in front of us, but my biggest thing -- and I haven't had a chance to gripe about this yet, so I'm going to. Is ACHD and the street level of service of F and saying that it's 15 years out is just astronomical to me. That is asinine in my opinion and I -- I -- that's where -- that's a sticking point that I'm getting -- that I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around is, you know, as it's been said that having, you know, a few percentage points, but a few percentage points on an already bad road doesn't help things. I'm struggling with that that aspect of -- of this project. And, you know, the worst those arterial roads are and the more we are going to see the traffic concerns that everyone has addressed tonight kind of exacerbated. So, that's -- that's my biggest like hang up right now is -- is that -- I think the project looks nice. I applaud in-fill. And I like that. I'm on the fence on where I'm at with this, but those are my thoughts right now. Holland: Thank you, Commissioner Grove. Commissioner Pitzer, you want to go next? Talk into your mic if you -- Pitzer: Oh. Sorry. I -- I like the product. I don't -- sorry, I'm trying to get to my -- oh, I guess I'm not in control of this. I don't like the court. I think its way to dense in the court. I think the density is too high all together. The street parking with that much density I'm -- I'm having a problem with, but I agree the -- I don't think it's a -- I think he may be asking for something different -- when you get the density back down to R-4 his option is going to be to build two story homes with maybe families and more children and, then, we have the issue with schools, whereas right now as -- as an older person myself I don't get up at 7:00, 1 don't -- I don't have to fight rush hours. I sit around and have my coffee and my car is going in the garage. I just don't have as much stuff. So, there is some things I like about it, some things I don't. I'm definitely not liking the east side of the project as a whole. Holland: Thank you. I think my comments in general, I -- you know, I have driven through and I have toured a few homes, too, in the past of Todd Campbell's. I know he's got a good quality product that he puts out and I appreciate some of the thoughts that they put into things like the pathway that would buffer the -- the neighboring parcels. So, instead of having a shared fence line there would actually be a little bit of breathing room between Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 58 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 55 of 60 there. So, I do appreciate that design element there. I think I still have heartburn over the east side of the lot and how many homes are off of that cul-de-sac. So, you know, thinking about density, I -- I do appreciate in-fill when we can get it, so that parcels can be more cohesive for sure. We all have challenges with the way that ACHD manages roadways, but it's not something that we, unfortunately, have a lot of control over some of those policies. So, we -- we do the best that we can, but this specific in-fill parcel was designed that when it would redevelop it would utilize those two stub streets that were mined into the development and overall hopefully what would happen is that that would help share the burden of -- of some of the roadways, because people would go south or north to get out of the subdivision. But I know it's not an ideal situation and we certainly hear your concerns. We -- we looked at this application for the first time along with all of you, so we received the packet the week before. We don't have any of these conversations ahead of time. But our -- our job as a volunteer commission is to sit here and to hear the public testimony, hear the application in front of us, and make a recommendation to Council, who is the ultimate deciding authority. So, I just wanted to point that out to you. I think -- I'm hoping that maybe what we can do is -- is make a recommendation that would lead towards some sort of compromise where, you know, perhaps they -- they keep it as an R-8 density, but maybe they could remove a few of the lots. That would make us feel a little bit better about some of that density in there. I -- would prefer to see, you know, no more than -- than three lots on -- off of that eastern portion where you have got those six lots there, if they could reduce those down to three lots, instead of six, and, then, you know, I'm not too concerned about the drive aisle with the two homes off of the other side of the cul-de-sac, but having -- what is that -- ten homes off of one cul-de-sac, that -- that does give me some heartburn. So, I would say that-- that would be my thought is if we do decide to move this forward to Council for their consideration, I would request that they would reduce the number of homes off of that eastern cul-de-sac at a minimum. That's my thoughts for now. Any other thoughts? Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I guess a question for -- for Bill on that. How could we potentially direct the applicant to reduce the -- I mean if we -- if we come back with a number? Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, currently in the staff report we have asked for some revisions to the plat ten days prior to City Council hearing. So, if it's your desire for them to lose some lots, I would ask that you either limit it to a number -- lose two lots, lose three lots, whatever it is to make you feel comfortable that there is -- it's going to -- it's going to work. Theoretically I could see them combining those lots and going from six to three and doubling the lot sizes along that. They would lose three lots. Certainly if they don't like that recommendation they can take that up with City Council. But that's something that you can carry forward and they can -- and we can add that as a condition of approval. Or you can recommend that as a condition, that they combine those lots and lose three lots and you go forward with a plat with 47 residential lots or whatever number you come up with, but I will leave it up to your deliberations. Holland: Thank you, Bill. Commissioner Cassinelli, other thoughts? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 59 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 56 of 60 Cassinelli: I wouldn't mind seeing that -- that cul-de-sac taken down to a total of about five. I think -- and that -- maybe that could be a good compromise for everybody. I don't -- in there. I don't know. But, again, I do know -- you know, I'm familiar with the product, I think--the price point. They are going to--they probably did this -- it's --every developer is going to come back and say the same thing, if we take away four lots it doesn't pencil. Holland: We can certainly make a recommendation and have City Council negotiate further with them. I think that might be a fair compromise is to ask them to reduce the number of lots off that cul-de-sac on the east side. Grove: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Grove. Grove: What -- what number are you -- where -- kind of came down on a couple different numbers there, so I'm just wondering. Holland: I know Commissioner Cassinelli threw out a different number. My thought was to reduce the six lots that are on the far east side to three lots. I don't know if I'm concerned as much with those other four homes, but, you know, potentially we could -- we could reduce that down, too, and ask them to reduce those ten lots to whatever number we felt comfortable, whether that was six or seven, whatever you -- whatever you all feel comfortable with. Pitzer: Madame Chair. So, you're -- you're okay with the transition from R-4 to R-8 back to R-4? Having this in-fill is sub'd as an R-8? Holland: Well -- and I think what we are -- we are discussing, too, is it would still be an R-8 designation, but they wouldn't be maximizing what they can in there. It would be reducing that number. So, it may not be R-4, but it might translate to being what an R-6 would look like essentially. Somewhere in the middle. They can build up to a certain number of lots in an R-8. Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: If I could just comment on that. I'm normally not a big fan of that kind of transition and wouldn't -- wouldn't like this, but in looking at the fact that these homes are going to be single story, they are not going to -- it's not like -- it's not like you're having an R-8 full of two story homes bearing down on you. So, I think that -- I think the transition, while it's not ideal, because of -- of the style of homes I think it's going to be probably better than -- and those that have a bonus room typically they are going to have a window to the front and not to the back. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 60 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 57 of 60 Holland: I think that's a great point. When you look at a subdivision like this and you are -- you are looking at more of single family products that's single level, it certainly makes a big difference in the way that that comes forward. If there is other comments certainly -- certainly happy to keep discussing. If you -- someone would like to try and make a motion, certainly happy to take that, too. Commissioner Grove, any other comments you would like to make first? Cassinelli: Do -- do we have a number on that -- on the -- of lots to take off that -- Holland: If you want to keep talking about that we certain can. Cassinelli: Is it five? I mean having six on the cul-de-sac? Five on the cul-de-sac? What -- what seems to be -- because that's going to determine the motion I think. Because there is ten right now, which I think is excessive. Grove: So, Bill, you said five and 'ish is kind of the numbers that I was getting. Is that right? On what you are -- Cassinelli: I think -- part of that -- I mean I think six would be --five I think brings some of the concerns that the neighbors have a little bit -- it's going to take the traffic down. No matter what -- no matter what gets built in here there is going to be traffic and I -- and I -- I do think that because of the product it -- it's not going to be a lot of -- I don't -- there -- there is going to be kids there. Sure. But I don't think it -- you know, not if these were 2,500 square foot, two story homes. Holland: You -- you could certainly make a recommendation to eliminate five lots overall and have them work with putting together a new plat, but that there wouldn't be more than six homes off the cul-de-sac. You could do something like that. Is there another thought? Cassinelli: That sounds good. Holland: I'm sorry. So, we -- we have it closed for just deliberation. We can't open up for the public testimony. We would have to reopen the public hearing. But if you want other comment to that, too -- and I know we are -- we are not going to open it back up for public comment tonight, but you're certainly welcome to show back up for the City Council hearing and send in further written letters, public testimony, they would be happy to hear your comments here as well. Cassinelli: I'm going to add -- I'm going to -- I'm just going to -- I'm going to echo what Commissioner Grove said, that the levels on -- part of my hesitation, too, to be putting this through is where Locust Grove sits with ACHD and it's -- and that road is not scheduled to be widened -- I think I read in their comments either 2031 to 2035. We could be looking at 15 years out before they widen Locust Grove and it's -- it's -- it's already beyond max capacity on there at peak hours. So, it's a tough one. It's a tough one for me. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 61 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 58 of 60 Holland: I think it's even tougher when it's an in-fill parcel that we are looking at, because it's not a -- I mean from 50 homes in this subdivision would provide about six percent of the traffic for the overall development that ties together and it's not a large enough number that ACHD requires them to do a traffic study and so there is certainly challenges there. I don't think adding another access to Locust Grove would assist with that, because there is another one just to the north. They try to limit them, because, otherwise, if you have too many access points all stacked next to each other you have more traffic challenges, people pulling out in front of each other and not slowing down and I'm certainly aware that there is traffic challenges on Locust Grove. I wish that we could prioritize it and get it moved up list. The only way it gets moved up the list is when there is traffic concerns and I know that the city works hard to put together its recommendations, the county puts together their list of recommendations, the school district puts together their list of recommendations and, then, ACHD picks all those to prioritize what corridors get done next. Cassinelli: Yeah. The tough one, too, is knowing that Commander is not -- it's a local street and not a -- not a connector. So, there isn't --just this was -- this was not planned out like it should have been and, hence, it's an in-fill project that we are having to deal with. Pitzer: Well, I'm not liking the density of the 50 homes. I mean if-- I -- I think there could be something in between. Holland: I think I feel like the -- if we asked them to eliminate five lots and down to 45 building lots and not putting more than six on the cul-de-sac, they could come back with another plat before Council meeting. Pitzer: Do we continue? Holland: I don't think we necessarily have to continue it. We certainly could, but we can make recommendations to City Council and they will have to revise that plat before it goes to City Council, so that it's fresh for them to look at. I mean if you -- if you all wanted to we certainly could look at continuing the application again, but I think if -- if our recommendation is just that they would eliminate some of those lots and make it a little bit less dense, we are not going to see too many significant changes, aside from what we just suggested there of limiting what's on that cul-de-sac, so -- Pitzer: Right. Holland: Unless you want to see other changes we can -- Pitzer: No. Because I mean I'm totally in favor of the -- of the pathways on both sides to help that buffer zone, because, yeah, 12 foot setbacks are so narrow that -- I like the design of it. But, yeah, I think it's the density that just -- as we -- Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 62 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 59 of 60 Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: Question for staff. Bill, is the DA -- in the staff report, that still would call for single story; is that correct? Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Cassinelli, correct. Currently it says restriction to 25 feet. Cassinelli: Yeah. Parsons: And, then, if there is a bonus room -- still provision for a bonus room and no windows on the rear of the structure, it would all be going towards the street. Cassinelli: Okay. So, that would -- if we were to -- if we were to make a recommendation to drop the number of lots, that still is in there. Parsons: That is -- that is correct. Cassinelli: Okay. Thank you. Holland: Commissioner Grove. Grove: All right. I think I'm ready. After considering all staff and applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to the City Council of file number H-2019-0135 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of February 20th, 2020, with the following modification: To reduce the number of lots by five and to have no more than six lots off of the cul-de-sac on the eastern portion of the project. Holland: I have a motion. Do I have a second? Pitzer: Second. Holland: Okay. Motion to recommend approval for Allmon Subdivision, H-2019-0135, with a limit of 45 building lots and restrictions on the cul-de-sac to six lots. All those in favor? All those opposed? Cassinelli: Nay. Holland: Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. THREE ABSENT. Holland: Thank you all for being here this evening. We need one more motion for the night. Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 63 of 214 Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission February 20,2020 Page 60 of 60 Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli. Cassinelli: I move we call it a night and adjourn. Grove: Second. Holland: All those in favor. All right. Meeting adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:13 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.) APPROVED 03 1 05 2020 LISA HOLLAND - VICE-CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVED ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 5,2020— Page 64 of 214