2019-07-08 Budget WorkshopCITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING AGENDA
City Council Chambers
33 East Broadway Avenue
Meridian, Idaho
Monday, July 8, 2019 at 9:30 AM
Item 1: Roll-Call Attendance
__X__A nne L ittle R oberts __X__J oe Borton
__X__Ty P almer __ _Treg B ernt
__X__G enesis Milam __X__ L uke C avener
__X__ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
Item 3: City of Meridian FY2020 Budget Workshop
Meeting Adjourned at 3:50 PM
Meridian City Council Budget Hearing July 8, 2019.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 9:31 p.m., Monday, July 8,
2019, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Genesis Milam, Ty
Palmer, and Anne Little Roberts.
Members Absent: Treg Bernt.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer ___ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X__ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and get this started. Thank you all for being here this
morning. For the record it's Monday, July 8th. It's 9:31. We will start with roll call
attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item No. 2: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 3: City of Meridian FY2020 Budget Workshop
De Weerd: Item 3, we will dive right into our budget workshop meeting and turn this over
to Todd or Jenny. Jenny.
Fields: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our fiscal year 2020 budget workshop
number three. On the agenda today we are going to review some changes that we have
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made since our June workshop. We are going to go over what the current fiscal year
2020 budget proposal looks like and we will have Council discussion and finalize our fiscal
year 2020 budget proposal for tentative adoption. In front of you I have handed out some
packets. The very first thing that -- in the packet is a list of changes. I'm going to briefly
go over those with you. The first change that we made is in City Council department
budget, based on the compensation committee -- you guys will be talking about this some
more tomorrow, but we have increased each council members compensation to 15,000
each and, then, in the Fire Department we have updated a computer replacement at the
cost of 1,550 dollars. The Mayor's budget, the compensation committee also
recommended an increase to Mayor's compensation, but that will be also discussed
tomorrow. And, then, we removed duplicate NLC summit in the lodging portion of the
Mayor's budget. In Planning we have an adjustment of 306 dollars of a removing of a
due for an associate city planner. The biggest change that we have made is in the Police
Department budget. In the animal control contract we have an updated number, it's a
reduction of 30,000 dollars 564,000 to 533. The reason is although our allocation
percentage is increased due to Garden City and city of Eagle's exiting the contract, there
is actually another component that we budgeted for, which is the capital replacement.
City of Boise have currently incurred that instead of passing it through to all the cities, so
we do have a savings of 30,000 dollars. Next and last is the Public Works Department.
We have added 2,250 dollars to some publications in their department. With that the next
item that is in your packet is the updated summary sheet, all three funds, and, then, the
other thing that is on your desk is a consolidation of all the questions and answers that
were asked of all the departments to date of the fiscal year 2020 budget proposal. Do
you have any questions so far? We are going to dive right into our summaries. I'm going
to start off with Enterprise Fund and, then, work towards General Fund. So, in our
Enterprise Fund start with the department of utility billing. Council, do you have any
questions?
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Council, our approach is like we have done in years past. We
will go department by department. As Jenny stated, we will start with Enterprise Fund.
You guys have asked the questions, we have answered the questions, we want to now
allow you the opportunity to dialogue amongst yourselves or with us. You have all the
directors here at the table. You have their support staff behind as well. Just like we have
done in years past, we will start at the top of the Enterprise Fund utility billing. What we
are asking for is you guys to give us direction if there is any outstanding questions for
each department as we go through them via the summary of the questions that we
provided you or anything that's still outstanding, this is an opportunity for you to dialogue
amongst yourselves and us. As Jenny stated, as we go through each department and
we will answer any questions for you, we would like to consider those departments
balanced at that point and closed. Again, if you do think of something later on in the day
we can always bring it back. But our kind of goal like we have always done in the past is
just go department by department, answer any questions, dialogue, and, then, we will
consider that department somewhat closed, so, then, by the end of the day we will have
what we will call the tentative balanced budget for fiscal 2020. So, with that, as Jenny
mentioned, we would like to start off with the Enterprise Fund. We would like to start off
at the top, which is utility billing department, and open to questions to you guys. If you
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have any questions on utility billing this is the opportunity to discuss them. Again, the
Enterprise Fund first, so to line you up it will be utility billing, Public Works, water-
wastewater and, then, we will go to Community Development and, then, we will finish the
day off with General Fund going -- starting with the admin departments and so forth, like
we have done in the past. So, again, just to kind of give you guys an idea of our approach,
you have your team here, so with that, as Jenny stated, utility billing, any outstanding
questions that you would like answered at this time for utility billing?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Not a question, but a comment as we kind of delve into this part of the process.
It was -- and I -- Jenny, I assume you're the lead on this. It was extremely helpful to have
compiled questions that came in and in advance of today's discussion provided these
responses on all of these topics. It's going to speed it up a lot. It give us some time to
consider if there is any other follow-up questions. Thank you for putting this together. It's
extremely helpful.
Fields: Thank you, Mr. Borton.
Borton: And, Madam Mayor, the reason I bring it up is there is questions in here -- in
utility billing that have been answered. I don't have any questions that --
Lavoie: Appreciate that, Joe. That's a -- where you're going is where we want to go.
Again, we have done our best to answer all the questions that you have submitted to us,
but if there is any outstanding questions or if you want to readdress any questions we are
here for you. So, appreciate that, Joe.
Fields: I hear we don't have any questions of MUBs. Let's move to Public Works
Department.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A quick question for -- for Dale to respond to. Each year I ask a similar question
about depreciation reserves and we have met outside of the budget process to talk about
the fact that that is being addressed very proactively and I think later this summer or this
fall we are going to be hearing some updates on how depreciation is accounted for and it
doesn't necessitate the question that we asked, that you're on top of. So, I don't know if
you can give us a quick snapshot of what's coming in that regard.
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Bolthouse: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, we have just recently completed
an assessment of the utility infrastructures, water and wastewater, particularly focusing
on underground utilities and we do plan to bring that back to the Council and give a -- an
opportunity for Council to see just exactly what that structure looks like in terms of age,
materials, conditions and an opportunity to look out and I guess think a little bit about the
hundred year time horizon and some of the challenges that faces the city as that
infrastructure ages. We currently have between two and three million dollars that we are
investing annually and that's reflected in your budgets through mainline placements for
both water and sewer. We also take care of some of that in our mainline water and sewer
extension accounts. So, it's not like it's -- it's not being invested on a continuous basis,
but as you will see at some point in time the city is going to have to increase that
investment in preparation for continually aging infrastructure. So, if you will hold that, we
will come back in the fall. Now, as I mentioned, the -- the actual assessment report portion
of that is complete and we will bring that to you, so you can be better educated on exactly
what's under our feet and in the ground throughout the city. The -- I guess assessment
suggests that our city is young and our infrastructure is in very good shape. So, we -- we
do not anticipate certainly facing any of the kinds of challenges that you're hearing about
for those cities across the country that have had infrastructure in the ground for a hundred
to 120 years already. The bulk of our infrastructure is quite young and of modern
materials, so --
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Dale. Any other questions? Okay.
Fields: Okay. Let's move to the water department. Any questions within the water
department? Okay. How about wastewater?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: This may be I think just beneficial for a couple of the other departments that we
are going to touch on today. I'm hoping to get just a better understanding about our
approach to the vehicle replacement asset form -- or assessment forms and some of the
methodology behind that. I'm not sure who the lead is on that, but I have I think various
questions about vehicle replacements in multiple departments. Rather than ask that
same question overall -- it doesn't have to be right now, it can be at a later point in time,
but I guess, then, I may want to come back and talk about the vehicle replacements.
De Weerd: I think it's certainly relevant to do it now, talk about the policy that was adopted
a couple years ago in trying to stay on the question of what vehicle to replace. So , we
did have a third-party assessment that was required from each department and any
vehicles they wanted to replace had to go through the evaluation by this third party -- I
believe it's Meridian Auto and if it hits a certain point, then, it is deemed that it's on the
replacement list. So, if it is on your list it has met the criteria to be replaced per the policy.
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Cavener: So, Madam Mayor? Then is this even a discussion for the Council or is it
believed that it's automatically going to be replaced?
De Weerd: It's pretty much -- we decided to develop the policy, so we didn't have these
conversations each year and it was important to have it through that third party that we
accept their recommendation that this should be replaced.
Cavener: Sure. Madam Mayor. And I appreciate that. I do struggle with -- that we are
-- we are choosing to replace vehicles that are listed in the condition of good -- to me
seems to be not the right decision. I understand the intent of the policy, but I guess our
role as Council is to maybe review that and so I understand that there is a vehicle that's
here that can be replaced that is listed as good and maybe some better understanding
as to the why.
De Weerd: Okay. I'm going to defer that to Mr. Lavoie.
Lavoie: So, appreciate the question, Luke. So, the -- like the Mayor stated, we created
this form to create a structured approach to our vehicle replacements. The good is one
aspect of your scoring sheet. The ultimate decision is going to be by the executive branch
to propose to you. We do have an opportunity that every director has an opinion or a
nonnumeric approach to it to still consider or not consider the document -- or a vehicle to
be proposed to you for consideration based on their opinions. The form itself is a
mathematical approach. It's a tool that we use to give us the simple answer of these
automatically get in and they should be replaced. If it does come in with a scoring sheet
of good, we do allow the director to argue that and make a -- or make a -- I guess a
nonmathematical argument to why it should be replaced.
Cavener: Sure.
Lavoie: So, we do have the gray area where the director may have a final say that, yes,
the form says what it says, but the director says this is why we need to replace it, because
numerically it still doesn't work, because we have a safety issue -- because we can't think
of every consideration. It gives us a good basis. So, if that answers -- I hope that answers
it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I think that's -- that's helpful, yes. I guess -- and that would
come back to the discussion about each one then and I guess I'm looking forward to the
information as to why number -- I don't even know how we have numbered these. The
GMC Sierra 1500, it's listed as good. Again, the biggest contributor to its score is the age
of the vehicle, the vehicle use type is a low score. The condition of the vehicle is low. It
appears there is some preventive maintenance and general repair -- just trying to get an
understanding as to why this one is listed, but if it --
Lavoie: It's not to be replaced?
Cavener: No. Is.
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Lavoie: Okay. Good. So, it's a fair question and we have your subject matter experts
here. So, this is the Wastewater Department.
Bolthouse: Yeah. And I would be -- I would be happy to address that, Madam Mayor and
Councilman Cavener. So, we have two vehicles that are actually on the list. The Meridian
Automotive section really looks at kind of -- a snapshot of current condition from an
operability and -- and safety standpoint. Where we have a concern with this particular
vehicle is that this is our primary single emergency response collection vehicle. It's driven
by the supervisor over the collections team . It has gone through pretty significant repairs
recently. We still have check engine lights and all kinds of things that are on there. It's
identified to have between one and two thousand dollars maintenance. We just spent
that on it. It has a salvage value of about a thousand dollars. So, we have to kind of
impart, you know, some common sense on whether or not we throw good money after
bad on these vehicles and consideration for, you know, extending the life from this
snapshot, which was here a few months ago, over the course of FY-20. So, we -- we
don't have any extra vehicles in our fleet. So, if something goes down we are out and our
options are going and renting something that might bridge the gap or whatever, but the
vehicles, because they are emergency response, they are full of equipment and supplies
and materials. They need the tools and all those kinds of things. So, this one in particular
has cracking in the bed. Well, the mechanic says, yeah, you can drive it that way. Well,
it's showing structural signs of deterioration and things. So, we do have to impart some
judgment on top of the reports that we get and that's what's led us to the recommendation
that this vehicle has lived its life and warrants a more reliable, updated vehicle.
De Weerd: Do you have any follow up?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, yes, I do. What was the -- do you know ballpark what the cost
of the repairs were that we just spent and when those were completed ? I recognize it's
putting you on the spot, Dale. I'm sorry.
Bolthouse: No, I --
Cavener: If you don't it's okay, I'm just -- I think that brings up an -- an important piece.
Bolthouse: Yeah. We just went through this. Prompted by your question. So, I have got
it -- staff has it and --
Lavoie: Dale -- and we can always come back with the details, let your team -- because
we are here all day. Does that work?
Cavener: Yeah. And I guess maybe -- I don't -- I don't want to circumvent the process,
but maybe this is something that we would put on a -- on a parking lot for -- for a discussion
at a later point in time if Council, Mayor, directors are amenable to that.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Kind of piggybacking on -- on Councilman Cavener's questions about the -- the
autos. So, if a department has a vehicle they think may need replaced, they send it to
Meridian Automotive and they get a report back. My question is how -- were -- were
requests and vehicles inspected that were, then, deemed not to be replaced?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bolthouse: Yes.
De Weerd: There were several that did not make the replacement list because those
conversations were had.
Milam: Okay. The reason I say that is because I also -- I recently had a vehicle that I had
inspected by a mechanic and was told it needed 4,000 dollars' worth of work. Then -- this
is a private selling. We were selling it. The person who was buying it took it to the different
mechanic and got a completely different report and they were satisfied with the condition
of the car. Didn't need four thousand dollar's worth of repairs based on their account. So,
you know, it's -- I don't know if there is ever a situation where it's like kind of on a line and
maybe get a second opinion if it's -- if it's close and this is nothing against any particular
mechanic, I just know that that's how they work a lot of times. Want to fix everything.
Bolthouse: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Dale.
Bolthouse: If I may, I'm going to answer the first question that Mr. Cavener had. So, we
spent 3,642 dollars just recently.
Cavener: Sorry. I'm getting -- sorry, Madam Mayor. I apologize. Dale, I apologize. Todd
was getting me on something. I want to give you my full attention, so, Todd, can you give
me a second and --
Bolthouse: We just got done finish spending 3,642 dollars. The mechanic's report here
says we need to spend another 1,500 dollars. We have got an engine light issue that
they are unable to resolve, so we have a mechanical or electrical gremlin in it. We have
body structural cracks, but the mechanic says it's still drivable. We are a little bit more
concerned. The mechanic themselves came out and said we need to spend 1,500 dollars
more. This truck's worth a thousand bucks. We did the -- not the Kelley Blue Book, it's
Edmunds. So, it's like at some point in time you're just spending money and we don't
think it was appropriate to continue investing in that and that's why it's been recommended
replacing. To answer Councilman Milam's question, we withdrew one, two, three -- or,
excuse me, two vehicles in wastewater and two vehicles in water due to annual
assessment, where it was in there and we pulled them out and we pushed them out and,
then, we have a fleet of rolling staff vehicles.
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Milam: Thanks.
De Weerd: Any other questions? A good point, Genesis. I --- I think that the conversation
assessment allows us to -- to have a starting point for those discussions, but, then, you
look at any cost history and driver feedback and those kind of things that also leads to
how they land on the replacement. Okay. If there is nothing further on wastewater -- Mr.
Cavener, do you --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I guess I need some direction about where -- where we are
heading on this. Is this something we want to talk about at a later point in time? Again
-- I -- I never know how to begin this process. It's always -- the changes and it's confusing
for me and I don't want to -- I don't want to step on toes. If there are things that a council
member says maybe this should not be included in this year's budget , how do you want
that addressed? Do you want us to talk about that right here if we take a vote and move
on?
De Weerd: I think that's probably the easiest is to vote on those as they come up.
Cavener: So -- and, again, for Council's benefit, I really struggle with replacing vehicles
that are in good condition. I know that the scoring matrix, which places as much emphasis
on years of age as the condition of the vehicle is what we use. I know we share that it's
pretty much assumed that these are going to be replaced . But I think it counts that we
have the ability to phase is this appropriate for us to be spending dollars. I -- especially
when we just spent four thousand on repairs, to, then sell it for a thousand dollars is
another piece that I struggle with. So, I -- I'm supportive because of the investment that
we have made in the repairs on this vehicle to continue this vehicle for another year, but
I also don't want to spend all of our meeting talking about these single things if I'm the
only person or if Council Member Milam, Council Member Borton if I'm the only one
person that has that feeling. I go back to last year where we spent like seven hours and
I think we eliminated 1,500 dollars from the budget. That's not a good use of staff's time.
That's not a good use of the Mayor's time. That's not a good use of taxpayer dollars. So,
I don't want to repeat that, but I also don't know how to balance that with having the
opportunity to address each particular item. So, that's -- I guess I'm looking for some
more ground rules about how you would want to have us proceed.
De Weerd: I think if there are questions that -- as a Council Member has concern with
that we have a vote and, then, move on from there.
Cavener: Okay. So, Mayor, I guess, then, if you're looking -- I'm happy to move that we
-- we hold this vehicle that's in good condition for another year.
Borton: Okay.
Cavener: Is that what you are looking for in terms of a -- of a motion?
De Weerd: Yeah.
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Cavener: Great.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Do you want seconds on it?
De Weerd: If I have a second.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a second. Any -- any further discussion?
Borton: Sure. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: On a broader than just this vehicle, just to give you my perspective on this, the
-- the end results in today's process is authorizing the publication of a draft budget for
public input, to the extent we get any, or an August adoption. With that in mind the idea
-- the concept of vehicles to address a process and develop the policy of this objective
scoring criteria, which I'm comfortable with and one of five and when it gets to -- I mean
that criteria was developed, adopted by us, utilized to try and streamline this process if
any vehicle that we have warrants enough points to be replaced, then, we replace it
period. And if it sits on a pivot point, then, it's that director's discretion and professional
judgment to determine that it's appropriate, I trust it. So -- so, on a one off perspective I
probably won't vote today to remove any veh icle out, because it's got enough points,
utilizing the policy that we have adopted to make it objective and not subjective and, then,
when it's close it's that director who can articulate they will probably give a good example
of it right here on every other one from anyone else who is close and when I hear it I'm
going to say we will keep it in, from my perspective.
Cavener: Sure.
Borton: So, now to your other question about should the vehicle replacement policy be
reviewed, maybe updated and adopted, maybe articulate some of the director discretion
-- discretion, call points? You set a point value. I think it's a great idea. I don't know if it
happens July 8th necessarily. So, that's the reason for -- for this request and all the others
going forward with regards to the vehicles. The policy has points and criteria which
warrants its replacement. The director has -- tie goes to the director, I guess, on close
calls. So, a discussion for the fall on how that policy should be updated.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Borton: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Appreciate the comments. There is something I think that is -- I want to either
address now or later and -- and I think everybody feels the same way. Budget day to me
feels like finals week in like high school or college. Like nobody is excited, we are all
exhausted, we are hopped up on caffeine and grouchiness and this is like my least
favorite day being on the Council, because -- it is, because here is why. We -- and it goes
to your point which touched about -- about trust and saying do you trust the directors and
I almost -- I don't think the intent implies that if you're questioning that we don't trust and
I think that's an important piece for us as Council for me to speak to specifically is that for
me we get this budget book, I go through it, I ask lots of questions, not because we don't
trust our directors or our staff, it's because I'm inquisitive and I want to make sure that I'm
doing my best to represent our taxpayers and so I know sometimes my bedside manner
-- it leaves something to be desired and it's not that I don't trust or appreciate the expertise
that comes from our directors and staff, rather it's that I'm trying to do what you have all
done over a period of months is go through this and come to terms with it as subject
matter experts. I'm not a subject matter expert and so I'm going to ask some of these
questions and I am going to wrestle with these decisions and while I trust our leadership,
it does not necessarily mean that I will always just go forth with a blanket
recommendation. If that were the case we would just vote this morning to adopt the
budget and go home. We are going through this process because we have got questions,
concerns, comments, we want to be able to come to terms with what we decide. So, I
think the world of Dale, I think he's one of the best directors we have and all our directors
are awesome. So, it's not that I have issues with what you're bringing forth, it's that I'm
just trying to come to terms with the decision we are being asked to make.
Bolthouse: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Dale.
Bolthouse: May I? I think -- so, you got a 14,000 dollar vehicle when it was brand new.
We spent 10,000 dollars and it's like -- we spent 3,400 dollars last year. The mechanic
themselves says we need to spend 1,500 more and that has nothing to do with the engine
light and everything else. So, what we have is a deteriorating, aging vehicle and you're
placing a lot of pressure on us to try to guess when this thing is going to fail
catastrophically or will require substantial investment. So, if we are going to make, you
know, some rules around that, maybe we could -- we could get some guidance on so --
so, how much is too much? If I spend 1,500 dollars and it doesn't take care of it, if I spend
another 1,500 dollars, it doesn't take care of it. Doesn't -- you know, this thing keeps
going and what we all find -- we have all had used vehicles -- is at some point in time it's
-- it's not worth the continuing investment to try to make it roadworthy, safe and reliable
and function as it's supposed to and we replace it. So, I'm telling you that I think we are
there on this vehicle and that that's how we have come to a recommendation for
replacement. We also have in your -- in your booklet -- from an asset management
standpoint that we also look at these things for replacement. Not just a -- not just the
mechanic-down-the-road's opinion. So, that's in there as well. It scored due to the variety
of conditions we looked at -- we have a single assessment that we do right on the
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important to critical threshold for replacement as well and that's still something that you're
looking at six to eight months before it's going to be replaced anyhow. So, it's --
Cavener: Good point.
Bolthouse: -- we are trying to look out -- so, I -- I think we are at a point. So, I guess
maybe some direction on how much more money do we spen d on a vehicle that's worth
a thousand dollars before we decide that we are just investing in something that is --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Well, I -- I have to say that the conversation is good to have and maybe we
look at the form and say if it rates a good, what are some of the additional considerations
that landed on the replacement list, so that you're not just looking at the evaluation sheet
from the mechanic saying, hey, if it's good, how does it land there. I think, Dale, you have
very good points and -- and those are the conversations that, yeah, we are privy to that
you haven't heard. So, if we can capture those comments, we will look at this policy and
if Council wants to make any tweaks later this fall we can improve what we have and
those evaluations on the automobiles or trucks, equipment that are being replaced that
were rated as good, what the additional conversation was had -- I think it's very valid and
as Todd had stated, part of the consideration when it's rated good has been what have
we been spending and what is still yet anticipated that lends to the director's discretion of
keeping it there that has actually -- whether the scrutiny of Finance and the Mayor as well.
So, there are a couple of touch points as well that those continue to land on it, because,
otherwise, you're kicking the can down the road and next year we will have the discussion
as Bill stated not just the extra 1,500 dollars, but potentially more that we think why did
we do that when we should have just gotten rid of it.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: We have all had lemons; right? Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I have got a question for Dale and a -- and a -- just general comment about the
motion, but is it fair to assume that if we approve this vehicle replacement we won't be
spending the 1,500 dollars in the meantime to keep it running or are we going to be doing
that repair anyway?
Bolthouse: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, I think our intention is is that we would
do what's minimally necessary to maintain a safe roadworthy vehicle for its intended
purpose and no more question.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: It's a fair question. We are not going to spend any money on it unless we
have to.
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Milam: And a comment to the motion. I think we definitely should reevaluate to evaluation
-- the evaluation form that age of the vehicle alone should not be equal to mechanical
operation of the vehicle. Had this not been an emergency response vehicle I would be
voting to remove this from the budget, but based on Dale's testimony as far as that it is
an emergency response, it's not easy to just go rent another vehicle if it breaks down
because of the equipment and --
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
absent.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion fails.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: So, anything further for wastewater? Okay. Jenny.
Fields: Okay. That concludes our Enterprise Fund. We will now move to the development
-- Community Development Fund.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: When is the streetlights?
Lavoie: General Fund.
De Weerd: General Fund.
Palmer: Okay. Cool.
Fields: And with that Community Development Fund. We will start off with our Building
Services Department. Any questions on our Building Services Department?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: There was a question I think in this packet from Council Member Palmer about
a budget item that would be addressed I think by Mr. Freckleton.
De Weerd: Yes. And I will apologize. Last week was the worst week to get questions,
because it was Fourth of July week and many of our staff members were gone and,
Cameron, we appreciate you spending your vacation trying to answer questions. This
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was one that you couldn't do. Hopefully, you have had a chance to meet up with Mr.
Freckleton.
Arial: Yes, Madam Mayor, appreciate the comment. Yeah, it was -- it was fun, just the
question. Appreciate it. So, yeah, let me just fill this in. I did connect with Bruce and I
will just read directly from this, because this is a good question and it actually informed
me as well. You know, the question had to do -- deal with the per diem and why was
there, you know, basically a set rate -- you know, there may be different -- you know,
differences in location or -- or personnel. So, the response is is per diem rates vary
depending on the location of the trainings being held and by policy the city uses the
federal rates established by the GSA, so those are -- and I can -- I can send that to you
all, you know, where those are coming from . The 76 dollars per day is the number we
use for budgeting purposes. However, the actual amount will be established by the
Finance Department at the time when the travel and the destination are determined and
so just to kind of give you some examples of recent ones, you know, we have a recent
one here to Salt Lake City that was 56 dollars. Portland was a recent one that was 66
dollars. Seattle was 76 dollars. And so we -- we do our best to -- to budget for what may
occur, but it's going to be based on the GSA rates and, then, you know, basically when
the travel request is submitted Finance will help us determine exactly what that will be.
But for both budgeting purposes we try to be on the, you know, conservative side, but it's
-- it's based on, you know, the actual -- when we actually submit it. Hopefully that makes
sense.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, where it says two days or five days, it doesn't necessarily mean two days or
five days or -- if the numbers are right that's fine, I just -- for the -- the purposes of setting
a budget I just wanted to make sure that the numbers are accurate and we aren't just --
accidental dragging with that little corner square that -- or whatever.
Arial: Right. Yeah. So, we -- we have -- sometimes we don't know exactly how long
those trainings were or visits may be. So, again, for budgeting purposes we are just trying
to make sure we -- we cover what may be the case for these travel requests. Good
question.
De Weerd: Any other questions in the Building Department? Okay.
Fields: All right. Economic Development.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: So, what I had asked the question -- where did I put it? If the Mayor split off --
50 percent of the time by community development -- or economic development, the
answer -- the response was we are considering greater efficiency in utilizing this position
in our newly revamped ED division. So, that wasn't an answer. Is it current -- I know we
are setting a budget for next year, but I like to try to base things on what we actually do
and the entire time I have been here I have never really been able to figure out if ED is
actually utilizing 50 percent or a percent of the -- half the position that they are paying for
compared to like a year into -- actually, no. I take that back. It was several months into
Mr. Arial's taking the position to even realize -- or even knew that that -- this his department
was partially funding a position upstairs. So, it -- is that position being utilized at all? Do
you plan on possibly making a change? Do we need to make the change in the budget?
De Weerd: That certainly has been an item of discussion. I do know that Robert and
Cameron and -- and Brenda met frequently to talk about duties to be performed by the
half time position and they did downtown work, they did database and they did website
and social media stuff. I think it's been underutilized, but not because they didn't have
time, they didn't have the direction. So, if it will be revamped, again, as a new person --
administrator comes in and we hope that it's fully utilized. It's designed for that. So, I -- I
think at this point the staffing is -- is adequate that we know of. Until we get a person in
there to evaluate it's hard to say.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? I assume the person wasn't, you know, sitting around twiddling
their thumbs for the underutilized portion of their time for economic development. Do you
feel like your office needs additional --
De Weerd: No.
Palmer: -- budgeted staff time?
Cavener: So, Madam Mayor, maybe as a Council, if that's the case that the position is
currently being underutilized, taking a new economic development director -- the Mayor
doesn't need additional staffing resources, then, to me it's removing that position from the
Economic Development Department. Once we hire a new administrator, if it turns out
that the workload requires a part-time assistant, bring that back as a -- as a budget
amendment to the Council to consider at that point in time. I guess I would feel much
differently if the Mayor's office felt that they needed the resource, that would make sense
that we are utilizing that resource while being underutilized in economic development.
De Weerd: Well, that's an interesting discussion. At this point that -- that is a full-time
FTE that is selected and is funded and so it's not as easy as saying we remove half a
position when it's a full-time position. That position has been utilized in an economic
development form short of being advised from economic administrative in terms of
business visits and downtown participation and in their redevelopment efforts and in
building our business community in downtown. So, the gap was filled, but it was not filled
under the administrator's direction, so -- and that is a conversation that Cameron and I
have had, as I believe it should be, but economic development is an important aspect to
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the city and so it's not to say that work was not being done. It's not done under the direct
-- direct supervision of the economic development person.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I appreciate that additional information. Just a clarification
then. This position is being underutilized or is not being underutilized?
De Weerd: It's being underutilized to the ED who should be directing the work and so --
but the work is being done.
Arial: Madam Mayor, if I might. Just to kind of add some clarification as well. So, as
many of you know, we have been without an economic development administrator for a
few months now. We are hopeful to have that position hired. We are going to start phone
interviews this week and hope to have that hired as soon as possible. We really do --
through some an extensive research that I have done and to, you know, the earlier point
of, okay, what -- what do we want ED to be in Meridian going forward in the future and
how is it best administered? You know, a lot of great feedback and review of a lot of the
other cities and municipalities on how they do ED effectively and, you know, it's -- it's
critical that -- well, straight to the question. This halftime FTE is vital for a community of
our size, with the economic development that is occurring, it would -- it's -- it's -- it's
unwieldy for me currently with my current responsibilities to try to pick that up and, then,
to actually do it at a premier level it's -- it's going to require not only the ED -- ED
administrator, but certainly this half time and potentially even more in the future to do it
well and do it to the level that we would like to see it done. So , based on -- on that I --
you know, I appreciate the comments, I appreciate, you know, the Council's consideration
of this and also just the conversations I have had with the Mayor on this point. ED is -- is
the lifeblood of a community and we want to make sure that we support it to continue to
have that vibrancy in our community. Hopefully that helps add a little bit of color on the
vision for this revamped ED division going forward.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? I'm not sure anybody on Council is suggesting that economic
development isn't important. It is. In fact, I think we want to make sure that that
department has the necessary resources and assets and tools. For me it -- it speaks to
trying to look at it from an average taxpayer standpoint in the age of really embr acing
transparency, we have got lots of positions that are housed in the Mayor's office that are
scattered in different budget items and I think it's important that if we have got staff that
are doing work in the Mayor's office, why don't you just communicate that to our public
that these are where these staff are positioned, this is what the budget's associated with
and if the person isn't working in economic development right now and -- again, maybe
you get -- maybe you're going need the full-time position. Again, our hope is that you and
your team are doing such great work that you're going to say this really needs to be a full -
time position. That we are setting that person up for success and I just -- I have always
struggled I think every year the budget we have talked about this, about how I don't
understand it, when I worked here I didn't understand it. As a Council Member I don't
understand it. And I think that if we are going to have staff that are doing work out of the
Mayor's office, let's just put them in the Mayor's office budget and communicate that
appropriately to the public. That's all.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think -- I agree that now or future that position makes sense as a full-time
position.
De Weerd: It's in the CFP.
Palmer: And so I -- I wouldn't even be opposed to making that a full-time position now
and providing a half time position for the Mayor's office if it's not needed as a full-time
position if that provides clarification and the now and future needs of ED. It may sound
strange coming from me that I want to spend more money on something, but I think that
the -- the ROI is certainly there in ED and there is, obviously, the need to maintain a half-
time position. That would ensure there would be no more confusion as to -- at least for
me as to what the person is doing, where they are at and who is the boss and it would
give you the part-time position with the full concentration and effort of that person's time
there.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. I agree with Councilman Palmer. I can definitely see us
needing two, maybe even a minimum of two as full-time economic development with all
the growth that's occurring and following up and just knowing how busy that often can be
when it's ramping up and acting in the full capacity that it should and so maybe that is
something we should consider, to go ahead and fund that second position as a full-time
position and leaving the half-time position in the Mayor's office if you're feeling like you
are at necessary capacity for staff.
De Weerd: It's always an interesting discussion when Council is trying to give you more
positions than you think is needed.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: And -- and certainly it's an operational thing. I would hate to make decisions
for a new ED and a new Mayor that should be making those decisions themselves and
so at this point I -- I would -- if you guys want to do a new FTE that's certainly up to you,
but it would -- the current status quo would continue until the end of the year at this pace
anyway. I -- I think it is important to -- we have each of our departments justify FTEs. At
this point it's not justified and I would love to say, well, you know, in my magic ball it will
be, but I think if you need to have a new ED, you need to have a new mayor that hopefully
economic development is a priority and a focus and at that point they will be bringing
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something back to Council I'm sure maybe in the mid term or at the next budget year,
so --
Palmer: Madam Mayor? I mean I think right now we are -- it may be five or three or four
years ago we weren't necessarily in a position as a city where we had so much potential,
ready-to-go commercial space, but with Ten Mile, we are now moving west of future
Highway 16, there is so much more ground opened up and available for I think low
hanging fruit of commercial recruitment that if there ever was a time to ensure that that
position is adequately -- or that -- that portion of our -- our city effort is adequately staffed,
I think now is that time to talk about, you know, will we have a future Mayor with --
economic development minded. We have got two, possibly three in the room fairly
confident are leaning that way and I know a guy who is a fourth one that I'm pretty sure
he leans that way in understanding the importance of that as well. I'm sure others may
get in that may to just stop everything, but I feel confident that anyone that's going to be
filling that position in the future has a good understanding of its value in the city. So, I --
if there ever was a time it's now. Fill it and here down the road it's like, well, that was
dumb it can always be undone and it's only -- in reality it's only adding a half-time position.
De Weerd: Any further discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: For Council, make sure I'm hearing things right. I think there was discussion
of eliminating a half time position at ED and it sounds like that's not supported by the
executive branch. Then there was another suggestion to give ED a full-time position.
Also not supported by the executive branch. To ultimately drive this the only option that I
hear is supporting the status quo. So, Council, we are happy to make a motion, but if
there is not collaboration with both chambers, which doesn't seem like it's a path to head
down --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Just --
Borton: Sure. Go ahead.
De Weerd: I think it's important that the new mayor sets that direction and that I think the
first step to that is developing a plan and, then, you know why you're having a position. It
doesn't make sense to approve of the vision without a plan and without a description and
duties and anticipation of what they mean and so the new mayor would have -- and the
new administrator would have tools at their availability to bring that justification to Council
at this time to approve a position before you even know what that is and what they will do
and how it would function and what the plan is is the cart before the horse. I do think that
this Council is dedicated to economic development, as is the current Mayor and I know
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that the future candidates see that importance as well. But it should be to a plan and it
should be strategic and it should make sense. So, I would entertain whatever you would
like to do that, but I think until a new person is on board and it goes through the typical
process of defining what it is, what it would do, justifying that it's a full-time position, it is
the cart before the horse. Mr. Borton.
Borton: No.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, to add in to the options, you guys were talking about getting the
collaborative approach and I think we can take this time to allow the new mayor, the new
development director -- or economic developer team member to collaborate with
everybody to make sure we have everything in place and we can do a budget amendment
at some point and let us discuss with you guys -- give you the plan in March, February,
next year, go this is our plan, what do you like, what do you don't like, and, then, if you
feel that we need to expedite the staffing, we have a budget amendment process just for
that opportunity. Making a decision today without having a good dialogue with your future
director, even with you guys I think would be less informed, a less collaborative approach
that you're talking about. I think the collaborative approach is bringing the new team
member, work with you guys to develop a plan, and if we need to get it done before
October 1 next year, we have an opportunity for you guys to do that. Just want to offer
that budget amendment to meet your needs. I think I like where you're going, but let's get
the collaborative approach to it. Let's discuss it before we just start putting thi ngs into a
budget and we have the tools that will allow you guys to do that. Just wanted to give you
that budget amendment process opportunity.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? And before I even mentioned it, Cameron had said potential of
full time. I -- if it's not needed don't -- don't hire it. I don't know. I guess we would still
have the position, so either it's funded full time, you're not going to hire it part time. That's
how that works. But I'm ready to fund it. I hate budget amendments that come before
the budget's in place for October.
De Weerd: Do you hate that more than approving something before you even know it's
justified? That seems odd or --
Palmer: Madam Mayor, again, the -- Cameron, put you on the spot here. Do you feel
that especially once we do have a new EDA that there is sufficient meaningful work that
could be done by a full-time assistant?
Arial: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, you know --
De Weerd: Cameron, I don't think you have to answer that. That puts you on the spot
and until we have that position filled it's a premature discussion.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? That is a budget discussion, so I move we make that position
full time with -- within community development insure the half-time position -- so it's just
fully dedicated to that in your office.
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De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Normally I would second that, but I think through the discussion we have
made it pretty clear that we need to get the economic development person in place and
-- and vetted out completely, but I think that it's great that it's on the r ecord that there is
support for a growing and thriving economic development department and that when the
time is right that issue can be addressed. But that -- the new person -- the director,
administrator, needs to have full buy in on that position.
Arial: I appreciate your support. It's very valuable and appreciate it and thank you.
De Weerd: Jenny.
Fields: Okay. It looks like we are --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I'm not completely wrapped up with economic development. If we are done
with the conversation about Councilman Palmer's question, but I don't want to step on
anyone's toes, but I do have a question about the IA MC. First off, Cameron's staff,
apologies for you guys having to work on your vacation. That's important --
Arial: No.
Cavener: This new process I think had some unintended consequences that Council put
off some other comments until maybe a week out, failing to recognize that maybe staff
would be out enjoying the Fourth of July, but they have holidays and should not be
plugging into WiFi to answer questions. So, my apologies. Appreciate the response that
you sent. I was hoping just to get a little bit more understanding about it , how long we
have been a member -- to me if this is something that we have demonstrated and to grow
our investment, I'm open to that. Traditionally I have been really opposed to
sponsorships. I just don't think it's a good use of taxpayer dollars, but I'm always open to
that conversation if you're able to kind of show us why spending -- I think it's -- is it 10,000
or 20,000 dollars? Thank you. I can't see from there. My eyes are terrible. But -- but
why -- why we are going to push for that 10,000 dollars spent, especially -- just, again, as
a layman, who is not the subject matter expert, if we have already got an investment with
BVEP, it seems like they are going to be there in a much more meaningful manner, if we
are able to leverage those existing relationships and save our taxpayers some dollars.
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Arial: Appreciate the question, Madam Mayor and Councilman Cavener. The IAMA is --
is a pretty amazing group. This is your site selector international, who is who organization.
This is a one-time sponsorship. It is not a membership that we are actively engaged in.
It is fairly expensive to do so. But this is really kind of one of those blue moon events as
far as ED goes where the conference is actually going to be in our valley and so from that
perspective it's -- it's a -- it would be very strange, if not -- you know, it would be a missed
opportunity, to say the least, if we were not participatory in the event. Also, to your
question, you know, why -- why the 10,000 dollar gold sponsorship level. BVEP is a
sponsor, as well as Boise and Nampa at a 20,000 level. That's a significant commitment
and we felt like the gold sponsorship, the 10,000 dollar level, was where we felt we would
get the most benefit, meaning a seat at the table. Also, you know, face-to-face
conversations with the site selectors, as well as, you know, just involvement in the
conference, as opposed to a lower tier where we just don't get maybe that bang for the
buck. So, we felt like this was the -- the appropriate level to sponsor. We know that even
smaller communities are at this level. I have on good information that is at the five
thousand dollar level. That just gives you an understanding of maybe where some of our
partners are -- are viewing this. But, again, just a critical and a great opportunity for us to
-- to really show our -- our community off and, again, start to garner some of those
relationships.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Cameron, couldn't we achieve a lot of that, though, just by
attending rather than -- than sponsoring -- I mean a lot of it has to do -- and I know there
are some Council Members that are really supportive of this and so I don't want to belabor
the point, I just -- if we can achieve the same outcomes by, again, deploying our great
staff in a meaningful way, as opposed to paying money -- just, again, my perception,
because I'm not the expert -- of having our name attached to an event, shown on a wall,
recognized at the event, I just -- those are -- those are hard dollars and it's hard for me to
wrap my head around to say it's going to be --
Arial: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, so if -- if we do not sponsor at the 10,000
dollar level we don't get that one-on-one time, which I feel and, you know, in agreement
with the Mayor is really that critical time with these site selectors. Otherwise, it's just kind
of we are there and there is no, you know, real interaction with them. I mean to be quite
frank, it's just -- we are there and it's not an interactive thing at all. So, this is -- this gives
us that access. It also gives us that -- those networking opportunities that really are some
of the meaningful purposes of the event. So, I understand your question and I -- I agree
we don't want to spend money that -- that we could get the value otherwise, but without it
we -- I see it as, again, a lost opportunity.
Little Roberts: And -- excuse me. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Cameron, I'm wondering is there -- did we do the formulas
on the enhancement form? Because I know it's a one-time request, but it looks like what
has happened is that it's pulled it clear across and so that's why when I had a chance to
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chat with you on Thursday, so I'm wondering if that's creating some issues, because, then,
it goes clear across to 50,000.
De Weerd: Yeah. It's a one time.
Arial: Yeah.
Little Roberts: Okay.
Arial: Great -- great catch.
Little Roberts: Because that's why I was confused that this was our BVEP dues versus
the one time and -- and I am very supportive of us participating. I think the community as
a whole has raised -- had to raise 150,000 just to get this conference to come here. It is
a very very sought after conference and I think that we need to be a part of the team not
outside. So, I am very supportive of the 10,000.
Fields: Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, let me just clarify just a little bit. On
the one time versus ongoing, there was an error -- a data error, an entry error on our part.
It is captured as an ongoing on your form. My apologies, it should be a one time.
De Weerd: And I would agree, Councilman Cavener, we have not -- those sponsorships
this one had an unusual opportunity to get in front of a group that we typically don't have
that opportunity. I think through the sponsorship we will have that chance of highlighting
your community in a different way than would otherwise be presented. I believe that it
also allows a certain number of attendees to the conference as well. So, there is multiple
benefits to getting that. Okay. Further questions?
Cavener: No questions. Again, it's something that I would support holding. I think there
is support from the Council to continue on. Keith Bird rule, we can -- we can continue on.
Appreciate discussion about it. So, I'm on the record with my opposition. We can
continue.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I also have it in my, you know, Ty's ideal budget removal list. I wasn't going to
make a big argument about it, because that never works for me, but it's there, so I'm on
record as well. So, I will let somebody else --
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Unless anyone else wants to comment, I'm happy to move
onto the next -- my next question.
De Weerd: Yes.
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Cavener: It just was about the industry consultant, but I think we have it budgeted as an
amendment for this fiscal year that's being brought as an amendment for next fiscal year.
I think some of your -- maybe I didn't quite understand your response in the packet versus
it also still being as a in-process budget amendment for this year. Just help me
understand what's going on with that. Is it intended that we are not going to spend those
dollars this year, which is why you're bringing it forth as -- as another budget request for
fiscal year 2020? That's my assumption, but -- I couldn't quite understand what your
response was.
Arial: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, so this money has not been spent and it's
largely because we want to get our economic development administrator on board, so
that they can go through the process of hiring the consultant, but, then, also being
participatory in the analysis. We felt like if you were to just kind of go ahead without that
position being filled and having, you know, a consultant do it, we wouldn't be getting the
benefit of a lot of the -- the work and the analysis itself that could be gained and so as it
stands, again, we hope to be hiring that position here in the next month or so and, then,
kicking it off this fiscal year, but if there is the potential that it could carry and so that's --
that's kind of where we are with it in the process.
Cavener: So -- Madam Mayor? Cameron, I think --
De Weerd: So, Cameron, just to maybe -- is it a carrying forward or is it a new request?
That's your question; right?
Cavener: Essentially, yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Arial: Oh, I see.
Cavener: But if we are -- if we are doing it now and we are going to do it now, then, why
-- why is it coming forth as a secondary budget request? And if it's -- I think what Cameron
is talking about is what I think is appropriate, based on some of our previous comments
about -- we want to wait until we have a new director -- well, then, let's pull this from the
budget request, let's get that new person hired, let them bring forth a budget amendment
and go from there.
De Weerd: It's already budgeted and if it is -- if it's just a carry forward or is this on top of
what is already budgeted?
Arial: Thank you. Thank you for the clarification. So , it already is budgeted and so it
would be just carried forward and once we have the economic development --
De Weerd: So, it doesn't need to be in the budget.
Arial: Right.
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De Weerd: So, it's just a carry forward.
Arial: Yes.
Cavener: Do we need any action or -- I guess you're the executive -- we can just --
De Weerd: I think we can do it.
Cavener: Great.
De Weerd: Draw a line. Unless it's in addition to what you already have approved.
Arial: It's my understanding that it's already in the existing '19 budget.
De Weerd: Okay.
Arial: So, we would be requesting to carry it forward.
Cavener: Starting at 20,000 dollars, so great.
De Weerd: Good job. There you go.
Cavener: That concludes my questions on economic development.
De Weerd: Any further in economic development? Okay. Jenny, I will turn this over to
you.
Fields: Okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I have reduced economic developments --
wrong column. Ongoing budget by 25,000 and I will make sure that it is in our -- captured
in our carry forward for fiscal year '19 carry forward. Okay. With that we are going to
move into Planning if there is no other economic development questions. Any questions
for Planning? Okay. I hear none. Let's move to Community Development Admin Division.
Are there any questions on Community Development Admin Division? Okay. I hear none.
That -- oh, sorry.
Palmer: Maybe. I put the word admin too many times in my notes. Let me just check.
Okay. I'm good.
Fields: Okay. That concludes our Community Development Services. We are going to
move into General Fund.
De Weerd: Okay. At this point I will call a ten minute recess.
(Recess: 10:48 a.m. to 11:04 a.m.)
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De Weerd: Okay. I will call this meeting back to the order and we will delve into our
General Fund. At our first workshop I did mention that we had a compensation committee
that is currently meeting and we have some numbers on discussions that we have had
thus far that we will be bringing back to Council, but we just couldn't get it back to you
before today. So, I do have a number of what that represents to build into the budget at
this point and since I want you to have that maximum number, just so you know where
we are at and, then, we will have a discussion before we have to publish. And remember
when we publish you can always be less, you can't be more. So, the compensation and
benefits that will be brought back to Council has a maximum amount of 720 ,224 dollars
and at this point I can't tell you what all that equates to because we -- we will put it on a
Council agenda to have that in-depth conversation, but I did want that number to be up
there as well. As part of that I have asked Jenny to look at the transit -- and we will get
to this as well, but the transit enhancement for the -- the route that is being recommended
and have asked that the operational be kept in General Fund and that the capital is from
fund reserve. The capital is required for the federal match and only can be exp ended if
we get the -- the matching grants of -- of equipment, buses, hard infrastructure and come
back and tell us who some of the partners are, but I thought it was important that that
ongoing operational costs was in the General Fund itself, because it would be ongoing.
So, if you put those two things into consideration, I would be asking from the three percent
a 1.12 percent increase as allowed as the max. As a max.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: When did you learn of this 720,224 dollar figure?
De Weerd: The 120 --
Palmer: Seven hundred and twenty thousand -- the number you just gave us. When did
you learn about it?
De Weerd: We just put numbers -- our compensation committee last month -- last week
and we got numbers -- we are still meeting next week to firm everything up, so we just
don't have a firm amount. I just thought you should know the maximum amount we would
be requesting. That could be reduced. It all -- it all depends on the conversations with
Council.
Palmer: So, Madam Mayor? Did this figure come out of that meeting or this morning?
Calculations still happening or --
De Weerd: I don't think the calculations will change. Our Finance director was on
vacation last week and unlike Mr. -- Cameron Arial he wasn't responding, so --
Lavoie: Nope.
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Palmer: So Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: So, the 720,224 dollars a year, was -- did that number exist at the end of
whatever that meeting was?
De Weerd: No, because we were waiting for the figures from Finance, which we got
before he left, but still did not know -- what best to do with them and that's why it's -- it's
coming at you this morning, but won't be officially in front of you until next week or the
following week. Before we have to publish.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, this process has been a joke. I'm -- I'm just lost, so -- okay.
De Weerd: And -- and that is why at the first workshop I said I will be coming back with
that information, but -- it's a lot of information to go through and -- and our group has done
the best we can to get it done in as timely fashion as -- as we can.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I'm sorry, I -- the number caught me off guard, so I was paying attention to that
when you -- I thought you mentioned that you can't quite articulate what those dollars are
being spent on at this point in time, we just know what the number is, but not what we are
spending it on? Is that -- I don't think that's what you said, but that's what I heard.
De Weerd: What I -- what I said is at this point I need to give you an amount and we will
come back and tell you how that amount breaks down.
Cavener: And Madam Mayor? You can't do that today why?
De Weerd: Because the compensation committee hasn't had our final meeting.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. It would be great, then, to get maybe an update. I realize they
haven't met for the final time, but they have met with at least enough to bring a number,
which means that's designed to pay for some --
De Weerd: The reason I didn't want to bring you a number is because I get these
questions and we are not ready to answer them yet. I will say before we have to publish
we will be able to answer them and so at this point I felt it important to be put on the
budget, so you see the intent --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I appreciate that you -- and this is kind of a Catch 22 scenario,
but, likewise, it's challenging for you, you don't want to put a number out there for the
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questions. Likewise, I can't in good nature vote to publish a budget that includes 720,224
dollars that I can't tell our taxpayers what that dollar goes to.
De Weerd: And I understand that.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: That's why I said I'm just putting a placeholder there right now that we will
come back to.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Cavener: So --
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Maybe that can come back as a budget amendment, just as the position
potentially filling ED with a full-time position -- when it's determined what it is and we have
had a chance to discuss it and when we know what it is -- what it is.
De Weerd: I -- I thought it was important, in full transparency, to have the number out
there under compensation benefits proposal and the breakdown before you have to vote
on a published amount -- will be laid out to you in detail and it will be before you have to
vote on -- on a budget.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: And certainly this is an ongoing expense, so you don't want to have that kind
of amount come back as a budget amendment, you would probably want to have it in full
consideration of what you're -- what budget you're trying to approve.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I completely agree. Again, same with the position. So, these
are indifferent. Either we are going to have a policy of we are putting in potential things
that we are going to -- there are ongoing costs that we think we may desire within this
budget year, especially if we are going to consider it before the budget is actually in effect
or we are not going to put them in and we are going to consider them as we know fully
vetted what they are, but l'm being told both ways, if I propose one and you propose one.
Cavener: Yeah. So -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: When -- when is this compensation committee meeting again?
De Weerd: They are trying to set that up right now.
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Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: It will be before you --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I understand that. But I guess at this stage it's been on the
calendar for a long time and so the fact that we are now just being presented -- our
meeting today has been on the calendar for a long time and so the fact that we are being
asked to vote to publish a budget that includes 720 ,000 dollars -- 720,224 dollars that we
can't articulate what it's for --
De Weerd: But we can.
Cavener: But we are going to meet at a later point in time --
Borton: Madam Mayor, aren't we today, though, adopting a tentative budget that gets
published?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Aren't we today --
De Weerd: We are.
Borton: So, today's budget will include whatever figure gets published?
De Weerd: No. The -- the published amount is -- is in what date? July --
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, what we are doing today is we are -- our goal
is to have a balanced budget for you to give Finance the final direction to start finalizing
the calculations based on the final directions that we have had conducted here. We will
be back in front of you -- I think it's on -- I'm going to pull it up right now. I think it's June
16th --
De Weerd: July.
Lavoie: I'm sorry. Yes. Thanks. So -- July 23rd we will be standing in front of you with
the fiscal year 2020 final tentative budget for us to put into the citizens hands for four
weeks for the public hearing to occur the following month. So, you're just giving us final
direction what we need to crunch the numbers with and, then, we will be back in front of
you with your decisions accounted for to the 23rd of July. And like you mentioned, Joe,
the number that we publish can't go higher at that point, but it can always go lower in the
public hearing.
Borton: It can't go lower following July 23rd.
Lavoie: That is correct. Yes.
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Borton: All right. Thanks.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Todd, could that number go up between today and the 23rd?
Lavoie: That number can go up. Yes. The 23rd, when Jenny or I stand in front of you,
that's the final number that you're going to approve and we will have it referencing this
document and, then, from that point I can only go lower before the public hearing. Yes.
De Weerd: We would rather see it go down than go up, but the compensation committee
can give you that information that they are -- hopefully on the 16th. So, it is -- so, Crystal,
do you want to just give some idea of what's compensation and what's benefit?
Ritchie: Yes. Thank you so much. Council, just to give some clarity as best we -- okay.
So, what that 720,224 dollar figure is potentially going to encompass at this time when
we come forward to you before the 16th will be four benefit enhancements to our benefit
package and a compensation component to our compensation program. We are going
to be meeting next week to finalize that recommendation , so that we can -- or I can come
forward on behalf of the committee and share with you the s pecifics before benefit
enhancements to our benefit program , then, coming forward and recommending to you
as a result of the benefit valuation -- excuse me -- that you all funded for us last year and
we have completed that through the Gallagher Group and they provided that information
back to us and we have vetted that out at the compensation committee , that we will be
bringing forward the specific details. That will be no more than 720,224 dollars. I don't
know if that helps. I'm trying to give some context of what you're going to be hearing from
us. It will be benefit enhancements primarily, with a compensation program component.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Crystal, what are those -- what are those components that are
being considered to be recommended to the City Council?
Ritchie: I'm looking to the Mayor to see if --
De Weerd: You will hear that at the time. The whole -- there -- this is a major change that
needs to make sure that it's appropriately communicated and so we need time to present
it in front of Council and that -- all the details have not totally been firmed up. We -- it's a
moving target at this point with cities all looking at revamping their compensation program
and we are trying to remain competitive, but also understand there is a long term fiscal
impact and so that is why you're not going to hear it today. Alls we could do is get a final
figure and that's what we have and as I stated at the workshop, there most likely could
be an impact to the three percent that I would be requesting and that impact is 1.12
percent. So, you can adopt the 720, the maximum amount, and reduce it down or you
can do it the other way. So, I just want to make sure -- because we do have a figure this
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morning that you had that and you knew what the intent of my recommendation will be.
So, we can start going through department by department.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Sorry. Before we do I guess I am seeing lots of Council
Members looking at each other and I just want to make sure that we are all comfortable
with -- with that, I guess, before we move forward --
De Weerd: And you can come back to it.
Cavener: Well -- but I guess I just want to make sure that there -- there was some
questions -- I want to make sure everybody's questions at least feel like that they have
been answered before we move on, because I think this is -- and, Madam Mayor, to your
point this is a -- it sounds like a pivotal shift. I don't know, because we don't know the
details yet, but it's very very hard for me -- we were provided this budget book to be able
to give us a good understanding as to what our budget is going to look like. I appreciate
the first budget hearing -- or the first budget workshop you said this number is -- that
number is coming and, then, it's almost kind of like -- like the Avengers movie, you know,
there is a -- there is a trailer for the trailer and a trailer and we are still waiting for the
movie and it's -- it's hard for me -- we are at what I think is a place in time to discuss our
budget -- that we are not being provided with the details, we are told again they will come
at a later point in time, because I mean it's a pivotal shift. It's a big change and we are
giving Council less time to consider that than we are for a 10,000 dollar piece of software
that a department's recommended. That's hard for me. I'm assuming, from the looks that
I'm seeing from some of my colleagues, that may be hard for them as well. So, again,
I'm happy to be on an island on this. I'm happy for us to move on, but if you -- if you have
concerns I think it's important that they be articulated and, if not, then, we can keep -- we
can move on.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I guess my question would be -- because we have got the number in for a
placeholder, we are scheduled for presentation on the 16th, which is also the date we
would vote to present the budget to the public; correct?
De Weerd: The 23rd.
Little Roberts: The 23rd. So, we do have a week in between, so that we will have --
which granted is not a lot of time for a substantial number like this, but trusting that the
presentation will answer the questions that we have or will -- and we will have time to
discuss it at that point.
De Weerd: We should.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
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De Weerd: If they don't, then, it will be very simple, you just remove the amount. Other
questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I don't think we should put a number in there until we have a
number. Right now it's a max. I -- yeah. Put a number in there when we have an actual
presentation and something that the Council can say let's put it in there and put it to the
public, not let's just throw this in there just in case the Council can remove it or the Council
add it when we know what it is.
De Weerd: Yeah. And it's all philosophy. I -- I think that -- you know. And I would rather
you know the maximum amount that's being proposed, that could come and start from
zero and -- and have to increase your budget. So, it's -- whatever approach you feel more
comfortable with. I will say that compensation and benefits come out of our employee
surveys. We have taken it serious. Our compensation committee has met frequently and
trying to track down a moving target of what other cities are doing, so that we can remain
competitive has been a moving target for HR and -- and we have had a missed Council
meeting on June -- or July 2nd. We have had some illnesses and vacations and so I think
everyone is doing the best they can to bring a presentation back to Council next week.
Okay. Any further discussion? So, do we feel comfortable just leaving it in at this time?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I don't. I think to your point compensation for employees at
least for me is a -- is a top priority. We have talked -- it seems every meeting at least one
if not all the Council is complimenting a staff member or a manager or a director on a job
well done and I applaud what HR is trying to do, to make sure that we are not only keeping
up with the Joneses, but finding unique opportunities to attract top level talent. To me this
-- my opposition to the number is not opposed to the compensation piece. I feel like I
have been asking for I don't know how many years that we provide a vacation b uy out to
our general employees, like we do for our directors and our fire department. So, I'm long
committed to making sure we are doing great work for our employees. The problem that
I have is -- we have got a number, but no details. Details are to come. And that's just a
piece that I philosophically struggle with. So, I'm not supportive, but if the rest of the body
is, great. But the question was asked and I wasn't going to have my silence be in
agreement.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor, if I could frame it from what I know and what I hear, we are just
late. It's just late. The process was utilized right. We didn't meet deadlines. It's no
different than any question from us coming in late. The comp committee with best
intentions, we didn't get numbers. Today's the date that we are supposed to have it all
set and we can adopt it, we can publish it next week. We don't have that. That's what
you're upset about and rightfully so. Rightfully so, because we can't articulate and walk
through the specifics of the number and make a decision to include it today to publish it,
which is a fair critique. We just -- we didn't make the deadline and the consequence of
that is we kind of have a placeholder and the challenge now with our process is if we use
this figure on July 16th or some component of it, inevitably we will ask how else would
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this affect the spreadsheet and overall balancing of the budget, which is what today is
about. We would have that for today and everyone could vet it and say I like that number,
I like 620, I like 430, whatever, and, then, approve a full budget to publish. We can't do
that because it got missed. And that's the way I see it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, maybe I guess a question for Council Member Borton. I guess
not a question, more a comment. To me it's not about the comfort with the number. I
don't -- I don't know -- I don't know what we are getting with the number. So, it could be
-- it could be seven million dollars, it could be seven dollars, it's not the number, it's what
-- and it's not being upset, it's just more how can I -- how can I answer what we are buying
and it's -- we know -- we know the cost, but we just don't know what we are buying and
that part is really hard for me to wrap my head around. If -- 720,224 and a one and a
quarter percent property tax increase may be justified. I don't know that . If it's -- if we are
spending 720,224 dollars to increase the coffee budget, probably not. But if we are using
it for vacation buy down or some other attractive benefit, potentially. We just don't know.
Borton: And that information -- Madam Mayor. If that information was available before
July 1 -- and that's my point.
Cavener: Sure.
Borton: We -- it's late. Let's just say it.
Cavener: Okay.
Borton: And that's created the challenge. I think that's -- just own it. We are late and it's
created this problem, so for the purposes of today, whether that figure is one dollar or a
million dollars, it kind of doesn't matter until the July 16th discussion.
Cavener: Sure. Madam Mayor. Sorry.
Borton: I just want to put it --
Cavener: Except -- except for that -- I mean it sounds like that there is -- the items are
out there and I just feel like -- at least let us know what they are --
De Weerd: The items are out there, but the compensation -- but we would just -- we want
the compensation committee look at those numbers one last time and give a nod before
I give you numbers.
Cavener: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: And that's why I can say that what we are bringing is the max as best
guestimate by Finance in the max. Right?
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Cavener: Madam Mayor? I'm not asking what does this piece cost and what this piece
-- you have given us a total. I'm -- I had asked for -- from HR is what are those items that
are going to be presented as potential recommendations so that we are aware and I don't
mean -- I don't think it's cloak and dagger here, I mean this is stuff that is likely going to
be before us anyways, why -- why the apprehension to share with the Council these
items?
De Weerd: I know. I just hate to put anything out there that would give a false -- a false
expectation until it can be officially presented.
Borton: Can we move on? You guys are saying the same thing. Here is what I -- here
is what you're saying and let's move on -- is I can't articulate -- or I'm not going to articulate
the specifics of how you get there. Call the number 700, 800. We are not there yet until
we meet again and we blew it by not having that data. It's not a critique, it's fair. Just
own it. We don't have that data in June, which would have been ideal. It ain't going to
happen today.
Cavener: Right. Well --
Borton: Is that ideal? No. Is it wrong? Ye s. It is concerning? Yes. Does it make it
difficult to support any figure in that box?
Cavener: Yes.
Borton: Yes. So, it's equally valid to say you can take it -- like what Ty said. Take it out
of the box. It kind of doesn't matter today. It's unfortunate. I think we all agree we should
be able to articulate what that comes from. And, Mayor, what I hear you saying is the
committee is going to meet, confirm, come up with the articulation plan, understanding
that there is a consequence of being so late where the Council on the 16th might say,
nope, too late. That's where I think in the process we failed.
Cavener: Sure.
Borton: So, for today you're not going to resolve this. We are late is the answer. We will
see what happens on the 16th.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think in the concern of trying not to create a false hope of what's potential out
there, we just did it by putting 720,000 dollars on this giant screen in here. It's there.
There is a whole bunch of people in this room that know what the heck is behind that
720,000 except for the decision makers. So , it's out there. Tell us what is potential, so
that we have time to start chewing on it, because what -- at the earliest we will have a
presentation on the 16th and make a decision on the 23rd in the way that this has gone.
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But there is no meeting scheduled. It could be the 23rd before your presentation and we
are asked at that time to put it out to the public. So, then, at that point it only makes sense
to, yeah, put the public -- put it out to the public with the -- the max and, then, potentially
us remove it, which would certainly be putting out potential for false hope. I -- I --
De Weerd: I don't --
Palmer: I don't know if you want to do it in an e-mail. If an executive session is appropriate
or how we can legally and appropriately find out before we -- I mean I feel like Nancy
Pelosi here is we have to -- we have to put it in the budget before we can find out what's
in it.
De Weerd: You feel like who? Can I start calling you Nancy?
Palmer: I feel like I'm being -- I'm hearing what Nancy Pelosi said. Have to pass it to find
out what's in it.
Lavoie: Well, Madam Mayor, Councilman -- Council Members, again, we definitely
understand the situation. I like your term that you use . Parking lot. Would you mind if
we get the budget discussions -- let's parking lot it. Let's finish with it and, then, at least
we can get the majority -- 99 percent of the General Fund done and, then, let's continue
discussion after we have completed the General Fund. That way you guys can see what's
really in the book, what's really outstanding, what's not outstanding, and let's clear the
parking lot and, then, we can see what's remaining. Are you guys okay with like -- like
Mr. Borton said, let's move the budget and, then, let's bring the parking lot items. Is that
good?
Cavener: Madam Mayor? I think that we are at this crossroads where -- where we are
-- we have heard -- coming from you, I think you have got some Council Members that
are feeling that way. I think to your point I don't know what else is left to say. We can
keep going in a circle, you got Council Members that feel one way, information isn't going
to be shared right now, we can't just stop the process because neither side is getting what
they want. So, I'm -- I'm supportive of moving forward. I just think it's -- I really struggle
with this budget because of the way this process has been played out. I can't think of a
time where we would support a budget amendment or I guess a -- a budget request and
enhancement that would come through a week before we are asked to adopt the budget.
So, I'm -- I'm fine with putting it in a parking lot, but I don't -- it's a big number without any
information behind it.
De Weerd: Let's go ahead and move through and --
Fields: Okay.
De Weerd: -- if we need to we will come back.
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Fields: All right. So, let's start with City Clerk's Department. So, have any questions for
City Clerk's Department?
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Question maybe for -- I don't know if it's for Todd or somebody.
And it goes back to a lot of our conversations about fee recovery and I know in the -- I
think one thing I guess I want to add is I really appreciate this year's budget the extra time
and energy and the narrative for the budget requests. To me this kind of a bridge process
was really helpful. I voiced a question about vehicle lights or vehicle share, scooters for
lack of a better word, and the response that we got said that it was going to be licensed
in the clerk's office, but now it's different and so I'm just curious who is going to operate
our scooter program and, then, what level of cost recovery is this program going to
generate and, then, does it relate to this position being as a result of doing just more of
the same because of growth or is it because we are adding new services or both and
helping me to understand that would be really helpful.
De Weerd: And I know the response attempted to answer that , but first we will have Bill
talk about the scooter program and, then, Chris can talk about staffing.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, the -- the scooter program,
the contract is with the scooter company. We did receive it back. It is on your agenda for
tomorrow. The contact point is the Planning Department, so -- because it's a -- basically
it's a contract administration program now for the rest of the calendar year. So, that's why
it is no longer a clerk function. That was the original intent. We were looking at the
licensing method. Because we did it through the RFP contracting we, then, treated it like
any other contract administration. So, the clerk's office won't -- will have probably some
level of work encompassed by phone calls and contact with the public, so I could envision
some of that, but the administrative fees is really going to be handled though the Planning
Department.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, just a follow up then. Bill, have there been any other change
about the roles and responsibilities that were initially envisioned for this proposed position
that are now no longer going to be housed in the clerk's department that you're aware of?
Nary: That I don't know. That would probably be a Chris question.
Cavener: Okay.
Nary: We just put it in planning, because they manage the ACHD in relationship with the
streets and sidewalks and such and that's why it's there.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: Chris.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, the position was written in different
ways and when I came into the role it was sort of in progress, so I was learning as I go.
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It actually is supporting a lot of the same what we do, but with growth and we anticipated
taking on vehicle sharing, but that is now housed somewhere else, but we do have vehicle
immobilization, which is a new license. It's very minimal, but we could see that grow and
we do see other licenses growing year to year as well. So , it is supporting growth in the
city, but just the one additional process.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Chris or Todd, whomever. Finance has done a really good job
at least kind of having me open my eyes to the services that we provide, finding ways to
recover the costs associated, especially if they are kind of value added or things that
make us a premier city and so I think the passport program is a great example that we
should really be proud of by operating the passport part we have been able to generate
revenue, to have the staff to manage it. So, my question comes back to cost recovery of
this position and the roles that they are going to be taking on, is that a full cost recovery,
a medium cost recovery, low cost recovery? I don't think that we are going to ever recover
costs on -- on handling inbound phone calls, nor should we, but help me understand that
piece, just -- just because you have done a really good job I think for educating the Council
to be thinking about that, but I don't have a good sense as to how much our taxpayers
are going to be covering this position versus the fees that this position is going to
generate.
Lavoie: Fair question, Luke. This particular item, the fee cost recovery that you speak
of, we do not have a -- as a status as you called full cost, partial cost, or no cost associated
with this position. That discussion is going to be had in the future about the overall city
policy for how we are going to see costs, which is based on the priority based budgeting
system, which will be completed sooner than later. So , to answer your question what is
this labeled as, it's labeled as NA at the moment. Eventually, all positions will have a label
and all functions and activities will have a label, but not at this time. How much are we
going to generate off of this one? I think the answer is nominal. We are not asking fee
payers to reimburse us for this position. This is a highly -- it's highly based on the growth,
as Chris articulated in the e-mail, to handle not only just clerks, but also the arts -- arts
environments and the community liaison environment. So, to answer your question there
is no direct label associated to this. There is no direct fee that we are going to charge to
any user of this particular position at this time. In the future there may be as we establish
the fee development or fee recovery policy.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? For Council's benefit, I'm the clerk's liaison and when this
position was first presented I was supportive, because I was believing at the time that we
would be at least having two scooter companies that would be compensating the city for
the cost of the position. What has changed -- I don't know if I -- if I can completely justify
adding it this year without some of that additional information. Do I think the position is
likely warranted? I think so. I think that every position that our city brings somebody
believes it's warranted. That's why it makes it in the book. It's just a matter of is it
appropriate to fund it this year versus another year in the future when we have a more
identified funding source and I'm looking at our philosophy about how certain positions
are going to be paid for. I would feel more comfortable moving this item to a parking lot
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item to discuss at a later point in time, unless the four of you say, no, we are good with
the position, let's move on.
De Weerd: I think this position is impacted not only by the growth , but additional
livestreaming staff support of all of the commissions and the foot traffic and -- and the
desire by the city to continue to have a small town feel. So, where they can to have that
person at the counter, to have that voice at the end of the phone and -- and to look at
different policies. This Council has never asked us to have a cost recovery capture for
the clerk's office and -- and the various programs we do have to oversee from liquor
licenses and TUPs and -- and all of that. Even the TUPs Council is not all that comfortable
charging for a TUP, but the actual cost of what all the staffing is and that's not only in -- in
the clerk's office, that would be Police and Planning and Legal. It would be astronomical.
People could not do events in the City of Meridian anymore. So, I think that is a policy
discussion that the Council needs to have in all of our different fees and what our cost
recovery should be considered and what that actually means. You recently had that with
the Fire Department -- I can't remember what it was. The fire inspection --
Cavener: Compliance engine.
De Weerd: Yeah. So, again, another policy discussion that I know Brad has been working
diligently on and will be a conversation at Council. But with the growth and with the
various numbers of licenses, events, et cetera, it does have an impact on the clerk's office,
in addition to public educate -- or public information requests. So, this would be a support
to the various positions already in the clerk's department, which is why that position was
brought forward as a recommendation. So, is it the desire of Council to pull this for further
discussion or what -- what is the majority view on it?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: This position is also on my drop this year list.
De Weerd: Okay. So, do we want to vote on it?
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I guess it -- I would hate that we pull something just because
two people feel a certain way, but if that's the direction you want to -- I guess we can move
the item to a parking lot for a later discussion at the end of our -- our day today.
De Weerd: That was a motion?
Cavener: A motion. Yes, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a second?
Palmer: Second.
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De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor, are we moving to just put this in a parking lot? What are we
doing?
De Weerd: The motion was to put it in a parking lot to discuss further to -- for removal.
Borton: Do we need a motion for that?
Cavener: That was the direction I --
De Weerd: Well, we just need to either make a decision or not, unless you want to have
further discussion -- you have an opportunity.
Borton: Well, there is going to be further discussion in the parking lot time. Right? So
-- so, if you want to put it in a parking lot, the parking lot's done. Boom. Next item. Let's
go. At the end of this thing there will be two or 12 things and we will make motions on
those.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, that was my intent is to try and not prolong --
De Weerd: I think the motion was just either make a decision or not.
Cavener: I'm not in charge of the meeting.
De Weerd: Okay. If we want it as a -- to have another discussion on, that -- we can do
that. I thought --
Borton: See how full the parking lot gets.
De Weerd: -- the idea was to just make a decision and move forward.
Borton: We can do that, too.
De Weerd: So, you want to park it -- I have a motion to put it in a parking lot.
Cavener: I will do whatever you want.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Milam: Pave paradise put up a --
De Weerd: Okay. It's a parking lot discussion that we will have again.
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Fields: Okay. Let's move to City Hall Department. Any discussion or questions for City
Hall Department? Okay. I see and hear none. Let's move to City Council. Discussion
or questions for City Council Department.
Borton: Madam Mayor? The Council had a government accountability officer. There was
a question by Luke or Ty, someone's e-mail referenced it. That's probably a parking lot
item as well. There was going to be a line item to fund -- I think it was a consultant was
the spring discussion or government accountability activities to be determined.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: So, that might be another parking lot.
Palmer: Good idea.
Cavener: Do you need us to take a vote?
De Weerd: No. If you want to do parking lot, we will put all the meaty ones at the end
and --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Just to note we have proposed before us here 25,000 for City Council travel.
That is a lot of money. Obviously, in mine I pulled a hundred percent of it, but I think it
doesn't make sense for -- to budget at least all six of us attending an NLC event. Or all
six of the future council. If you want to leave it in so that a future council can decide if
they don't want to go to one? Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Todd, based on history, do you have that number there as far as how many -- how
many trips. It does seem quite high. My guess would be maybe four people between the
two conferences would be more of an average for what I have seen over the last several
years.
Lavoie: Genesis, I don't have that number at my fingertips, but we will try to grab that
information before we leave today, so we will try to find the historical attendee list for you
for Council.
Milam: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor, that -- oh, go ahead.
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I think in review of this item, if I recall my thoughts on it was to do what we can
to encourage Council Members to travel, train, improve their knowledge and performance
in any way possible. It's never utilized fully and whenever it's not utilized it's never spent.
But it is kind of our commitment to ourselves to do everything we can to encourage us to
get out and learn, bring new skills and information back. We have benefited from that
year over year in a variety of ways. That's kind of the only reason why it's left perhaps
larger than we have ever used it, but it's -- that's the philosophy that I think we were trying
to capture. Training. Training. Learn. Learn. Learn.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Just to try to dovetail on Council Member Borton's comments,
we are going to have three new council members the next year. I don't think in the past
we have ever funded six total. I think it's always been two or four. But I think it's
appropriate this year in bringing six. While maybe there would be disagreement, I know
that my attendance at NLC has helped me level up in my approach to budget and not
trying to go down the weeds. Today may not feel that way, but I think that having the
opportunity for Council Members to learn and train specifically from their peers is -- is
appropriate. Imagine what it would be like if I hadn't attended.
De Weerd: Well, metro leadership, five or six attended is why.
Milam: Yeah. That one I agree.
Cavener: Well played. We haven't got to that yet.
De Weerd: So, I think -- I think our discussion was with the three new seats there was a
bigger likelihood that these dollars would be desired, because I think it's not only for you
personally, it's also to benefit the community.
Cavener: Appreciate the comments, though.
Fields: Any additional questions for City Council Department? If not, we are going to
move into Finance Department. Any discussion or questions for Finance Department? I
hear none. We are going to move to Human Resources. Any discussion? Any
questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I do have a couple of questions and it's just -- maybe just refreshing. When it
comes to these equity adjustments, I -- and, again, we run a lot of meetings and
sometimes I mishear things. I was under the impression that we go -- we can do
departments every three years to take a look at that and when I see on this chart that was
provided to us that's not the case and so I'm just -- did I misunderstand? Has there been
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a change in philosophy? Talk to me why we are seeing that's going back into departments
year over year over year.
De Weerd: You're confusing -- you're confusing equity and markets. So, equity is review
of the job description and if a job is misclassified and needs to be reconsidered for its
depth --
Ritchie: May I -- okay. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Cavener, we have three
components of the budget process that you're seeing reflected on page eight of the Q
and A. You will see personnel classifications. That was what the Mayor was just alluding
to in regards to when a job evolves and changes for the scope of work, level of
accountability, those types of things, the position gets reviewed and potentially
reclassified. So, that's a personnel -- that's reclassification. The internal alignment that
you're referring to is two year cycle where we also look at the job descriptions for
reclassification and/or -- and/or a wage adjustment and, then, the third piece to this that I
know we have discussed, but I know there is a lot around compensation, the equity
adjustment that you're referring to through the current budget process , the department
directors have the opportunity to request from HR specific position equity reviews as a
part of the current budget process and so there is three components to this that you're
seeing in that chart in front of you. We have made a recommendation -- I have made a
recommendation to change that process going forward next year that equity reviews will
not be just at the discretion of a department director to request , but HR will take that effort
on for all positions across the city, as we should be to take a look at that and make
recommendations as appropriate as well to ensure that all of the positions are being
reviewed consistently. So, that's the chart that you have in front of you on page eight to
show the history over the last five years.
Cavener: Hence some of my confusion. It's --
Ritchie: That's okay.
Cavener: -- shifting and bouncing ball.
Ritchie: No. That's what we are here for.
De Weerd: And three different steps to equity. I think there is a -- it's equity versus
corporate -- or market versus compensation and that's what the committee's trying to
bring back clean up language that makes it more transparent and forgivable.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I did have a question. I guess the total City Hall engagement, we didn't know
how much in terms of cost in terms to have all of our staff attend. It sounds like -- I don't
know who provided that response to us on the Q and A, I just -- I didn't know if in light of
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that if anybody went back to do any quick math. I did some. I just -- I want to make sure
that my -- if my number is wrong I would rather defer to the City Hall number, because the
number that I found is about 40,000 dollars in total is what it would cost to the staff and
the event to our taxpayers. I don't know if that -- my number is wrong, if we have a more
accurate number. If not that's okay. But, then, just I think for Council's benefit when we
close City Hall to do the event of Wahooz it costs about 40,000 dollars when you factor
in the cost of staff. To me this isn't a parking lot item. I understand this event is incredibly
valuable to our employees, but it is way too expensive in my mind for us to be able to --
to do that. So, I would recommend that we would pull it.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor. Luke, to answer the question, did we calculate the cost to the
city? We did not. Finance, Jenny, we provided that answer to you.
Fields: Yes.
Lavoie: The data is a cost outside the salaries, which is already a cost to the city, so,
therefore, we didn't analyze it to that perspective. We have a cost regardless if we are
here or at Wahooz, so, therefore, from a cost analysis perspective we do not provide it to
you in that context. We provided you the context of what was the additional cost to the
city if we put on this event. Hence that value, because the Mayor's salary and my salary
is still the same regardless if we have an event or not. So, that was the approach that we
took to you on this from a cost analysis perspective. We did not go back like you're doing
trying to calculate what 236 people times average hourly rate -- we did not bother with
that, because it was a cost to the city regardless if they attended or not.
De Weerd: And I -- I would say that the cost is as it is with any kind of training for -- for
staff and it's -- it's part of their job when they attend training. So, it wouldn't be part of the
cost of the event itself.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. But, then, with one very large distinction and that's that we
close down City Hall to the public. So, when we offer substantial award winning, very
valuable training to our employees, the public's facility is still open to the public and
spending 40,000 dollars to -- that also closes down that service to our citizens to me is
just too expensive. It's not something that I can -- if there are other ways that you and
our amazing HR staff can come up with ways to engage our staff that keeps this building
open, I am open to that conversation. The comments and the feedback from staff and
managers and directors from the event was very very favorable. It's not that I have an
issue with the training, it's that we continue to close this building to -- to our taxpayers
solely so that we can provide that training. I think we can find better ways to do it.
De Weerd: And -- and I would just counter that -- and I appreciate your comments that
the value to our citizens by having staff all hear the same message, have the opportunity
to break down barriers and walls and meet each other, hear the citywide messaging is
invaluable and I wish I could give you a number to that, kind of like with the staff time. We
also close during vacation or during holidays and we d on't serve the public. We do let
the public know well in advance that City Hall would be closed. If there is a particular
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issue we do still have staff. So, I think the -- the first event that was put on did show great
value to our employees and for our entire city and the value compared to the cost that
you cite I think are compensated.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I'm happy to move that we pull this item from the budget .
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to move this budget item. Any
discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
absent.
De Weerd: Motion fails.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else under HR?
Fields: Okay. I hear none. Let's move to -- oh.
De Weerd: We will get through these departments and before we hit Fire we will take the
lunch break for a half an hour. Would that work? We will take a half hour. If you still
aren't done we can reconvene, just -- we all need to be recharged. Okay.
Fields: Let's move to IT. Any questions or discussions? Hearing and seeing none, let's
move to Legal. Legal Department. Council, any questions or discussions for Legal?
Cavener: So many questions.
Fields: All right. Let's move to the Mayor's Office. Any questions for the Mayor's Office?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate some of the questions we got on the Q and A. I still don't
understand -- we know we are going to have a new mayor. We know they are going to
need a vehicle. Why not just budget for a vehicle now while waiting for the new mayor to
-- I guess I was just looking at it trying to set whoever is elected up for success and not
having to go through some of the rigmarole while they are doing their --
De Weerd: We have a vehicle.
Cavener: In terms of the vehicle -- the one that you currently drive?
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De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: And it's just anticipated that that vehicle gets turned over to the new mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. I don't see why it wouldn't.
Cavener: If Council is in support of that I'm good with it.
Milam: I don't think it requires replacement yet; right? Not to go back to that discussion.
Cavener: Yeah. That's a very valid point. Madam Mayor. It's a valid point.
Palmer: On the mayor's vehicle, I -- I don't think the mayor should have a vehicle. I'm
probably alone on that, but --
De Weerd: Another reason that should have a budget amendment by whoever the new
mayor is and what they would like.
Palmer: And Madam Mayor -- and I would hope -- yeah, that -- that the vehicle
replacement would happen sometime past January, so, then, that mayor can --
De Weerd: It's not in the budget, but it has been proposed. Okay. Any further questions?
Cavener: Yes. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Just because the -- the question I asked about State of the City
being revenue positive, I mean is that a program that, then, recovers all of its cost? The
answer didn't quite answer my question.
De Weerd: It does. Why is it a budgeted -- you have to have spending authority and so
that is to authorize spending, but -- and that's why every year it comes back with a budget
amendment showing the reconciliation.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, that was -- that was my assumption, I just -- the question -- the
response made me raise an eyebrow. Madam Mayor, sorry, another question if I may.
The MYAC computer. The response that we got -- again, I'm not sure who provided this
-- states that this actually isn't a MYAC computer -- it states the new computer will replace
the next oldest in the Mayor's Office and, then, that machine will be used to MYAC. So,
that's counter to what's in the replacement. The replacement says that it's a -- it's
replacing a MYAC computer, but it's replacing a different department's -- or different
employee's computer and, then, that computer is going to MYAC? I just need some
clarification about what computer is actually being replaced and why.
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Tiede: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, the computer in question is a computer
that is, for all intents and purposes, used for multiple purposes. It is used for MYAC when
they come in and need a computer, but it's also used for interns or other needs as needed
in the Mayor's Office. That's my understanding. So, we labeled it as MYAC, simply
because we label computers to some type of need, if that makes sense. It could be
labeled as general use if you would rather, so --
Cavener: Madam Mayor. And we can -- the name I think to me is somewhat irrelevant.
I'm just trying to figure out what computer is actually being replaced, if it's the MYAC
computer or if it's another general computer. The response here leads me to believe
there is another computer that's being replaced and that computer is going to MYAC.
De Weerd: It's the MYAC computer.
Tiede: It is that same shared use computer. In this case our practice when it's a computer
that maybe gets less usage than a regular computer, of like a full-time employee for
instance, we will typically cascade that computer to another higher use function, if that
makes sense.
Cavener: It does. Madam Mayor. Question for Dave. How many shared computers do
we have in IT? You know, we used to have laptops that we would share and loan out.
Tiede: Council Member Cavener, we do have three checkout computers.
Cavener: Okay.
Cavener: So, Madam Mayor, I guess the question for Dave, how typical is that we -- we
have got computers that we can lend out for short term use. Buying a brand new
computer that's not used on a fairly regular basis doesn't seem like the best use of funds.
I'm just -- do we do this in other departments and I just happened to see it in the Mayor's
replacement or this is somewhat unique?
Tiede: I think it comes down to the demand and how much u sage there is. Quite honestly,
we do have it in other departments where they have their own shared general use
computers that they may use internally to check out , just because if we don't have
computers available, then, the person is not doing a job; right? So, it does happen. It
depends on demand.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: A lot of things, but I think this one is the more important to me to have removed
is -- like last year we had a discussion on adding -- spending tax dollars on sending MYAC
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members to NLC. We did that in this proposed budget. I don't think it's appropriate. Also
we should take out the Mayor and chief of staff's phone reimbursements. They are all
certainly going to have phones. Certainly at least the mayor's position reimbursement I
think should be removed. I believe you --
De Weerd: I don't have a reimbursement.
Palmer: Right. Yeah.
De Weerd: Is it in there?
Palmer: No. Well, it is for next year.
De Weerd: Didn't you just say -- oh. Well, that should be up to the new mayor. I will tell
you that that phone is the mayor's -- you're mayor 24/7 and so they could get a city phone
and, then, they carry two phones. I think it's certainly up to the new mayor. I'm not going
to impose my own approach to someone else. But also the chief of staff, they are in play
-- just like anyone else should be able to have phone reimbursement, because they do a
lot of city business. I'm not sure what your -- your suggestion was based on that the
mayor and the chief of staff shouldn't have a phone.
Palmer: Well, they shouldn't have taxpayer funded phones. Especially I think the mayor's
position. I'm certainly more open to the chief of staff's position being reimbursed, but I --
I think that elected officials at any level -- except maybe the president -- shouldn't have a
phone, because you're going to have a phone regardless.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, just wanted to clarify, we did have money in
there for the next mayor. We wanted to make sure that -- well, we wanted to make sure
that they had funds if they wanted to have a phone. So, when Ty is looking at the book
he does see that in there, because we are trying to anticipate the potential desire of the
next mayor. So, again, it really comes down to your direction. If you don't want the next
mayor to have a reimbursed -- a phone of any form of taxpayer, we can make it zero, but
we did put it in there not knowing the next person's desire. So , that's why he is seeing
that. You are correct. It used to be out of your budget with you -- retiring, but departing
we did put it back in there anticipating the future mayor's desire s.
De Weerd: Okay.
Lavoie: So, that's why there is a confusion. I apologize.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And I just bring it up every year and I really appreciate that you
did that. But just bring it up again. I can move on.
Cavener: Yeah. Let's move on. But I think -- a comment. And, again, I don't know if this
is a parking lot item. I have yet to figure out why we have so many different tiers for cell
phone reimbursement. To me I think that just seems silly. We can come up with a single
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amount reimburse for all of our employees, so we are not having to have employees bring
in cell phone receipts and say, oh, I'm on a shared plan, and I'm 25 dollars or somebody
else is single, they are on a 50 dollar plan. Let's just streamline this process. At one point
we had some people getting a hundred dollars, some people getting 25, some people
getting 30.
De Weerd: And we -- we did revise it to -- it was 40 dollars max.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor. We do have a policy and it is a ceiling, but we do offer the
discretion for every director to determine the reimbursement value for their employees.
So, if someone uses a phone nominal compared to a lot, we give them the discretion up
to the 50 dollar value that we analyze and review every single year. So, you should not
see anybody's reimbursements more than 50 dollars at the moment.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? So, beginning in October -- so, when we see in the budget
there is some cell phone reimbursements at 50 dollars a month I believe.
Lavoie: There should be, yes.
Cavener: But I thought you said that it's 40 dollars?
De Weerd: No. I said that.
Lavoie: She said 40.
Cavener: Oh. Okay. Sorry. Trying to follow all the bouncing balls. Okay.
Lavoie: Every year Finance will review the 12 months of use data. In conjunction with
the IT Department we review it and that is the value that we believe is our current market
rate. So, therefore, we make sure the reimbursement cannot be higher than the market
rate that we get with our Verizon provider.
Palmer: Great. Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor and Todd.
Lavoie: Yeah.
Palmer: So, is it based on the individual cell phone plan or is it based on the usage or
the job?
Lavoie: The question is the reimbursement for the employee?
Palmer: Right.
Lavoie: So, the reimbursement for an employee is ceilinged at 50 dollars. We let the
director make that discretion between zero and 50 dollars. We don't -- we let them work
with their employees to figure out what the correct value. So, you will see 15 dollars, you
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will see 20 dollars, you will see 25 dollars, you will even see 50 dollars. We let the director
-- directors make that discretion -- or that decision.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? To Council Member Palmer's point. I think the MYAC program
has done such a masterful job of growing in this community under -- under Jodi's
leadership. The sponsorship dollars that come in is something to really be proud of. I
think that because of that investment they can continue to find new sponsorships to go to
NLC. I don't think we need to be using taxpayer dollars for that particular program. I think
it was great to kind of launch that and demonstra te their worth, but I think they are quite
capable, as they have been in the past, I think Council Member Palmer has been a pretty
big donor to them in the past of getting private sponsorship to send them to -- to DC or to
where ever an NLC city is located. So, I support removing that as well.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And my only other advocate last year is not here today on this issue, but I did
have a second today and I'm -- at the time when we discussed last year I was like, yes, I
will help fundraise if we don't use tax dollars and , then, they put it back on me like, hey,
you said you would help fund raise and I was like, well, that was as if we weren't going to
use tax dollars, but I helped anyway and I'm more than happy to keep doing it, because I
definitely see the value in it. I went with them this year. I paid for it, so that I wouldn't
have to feel bad skipping a lot of the completely worthless NLC stuff that I wished I --
some of it I would have skipped, but I do think that the youth component of that program
is valuable and even though I won't be here, especially if we can remove it I plan on doing
whatever I can to help make sure that as many students as possible can still go privately
funded. On the record.
De Weerd: I think that Mr. Bird was the one that said we should show our support of
MYAC and if there is a portion that we can cover, with the hope that they can fundraise
for the entire portion -- they did fundraise more -- they left money on the table, because
Jodi did find more sponsorships, but I do think it shows a commitment to the youth and
that is why it's still in there, with the premise that hopefully sponsorships can cover the
entire cost, but it's a city commitment to making sure that they have training and
leadership and that it has a value to it.
Cavener: And, Madam Mayor, I agree, which is I think the rest of the budgetary request
to support MYAC, I -- I support. I think it's important that we invest. Again, this is a
success because of Jodi's great work and the students' great work. They are able to
fundraise. We launched this to kind of -- okay, can you go and do this on your own. They
are demonstrating that they can and so now it's possible that we can use those taxpayer
dollars for another great program or something else down the road , as opposed to just
replicating year over year. So, I think that there is a strong support for MYAC in -- in our
budget. I'm just not supportive of the budgetary piece that would send them to DC or to
another NLC city. But I think it's important.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor? I move we remove that.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I -- I appreciate where you're going with that and where it comes from , but I --
they had a really successful year fundraising and let's hope that we get the same
sponsors, maybe some additional so that they could cover the entire amount this year.
We don't know that for sure. They had one great fundraising year because we really
pushed them to do so. I think leaving some money in the budget to cover if they don't
and you reevaluate next year after -- after a second year of strong fundraising, if -- if it
warrants removing it from the budget or just -- but it's nice for them to have some -- some
support and some backup -- backup Plan B. You know, if they don't show effort and they
don't get the fundraising done and don't take on some of that acco untability themselves,
you're going to be around next year during the budget and you can say, you know, they
didn't participate, they didn't do what they needed to do and I don't want to support them
going. But I don't have a problem matching some funds if they are -- if they are raising
most of it out in the community, so --
Cavener: You want to cut it in half? Do you want to leave it as it is? Sorry. Madam
Mayor.
Milam: I mean it's a -- it's a line item that is not going to be the end amount regardless of
what we do with it. So, it says not to exceed amount, undoubtedly going to be less. I
don't know that -- they are not going to spend more just because there is more there I
think. So, I don't -- I don't think it's a -- it's kind of a moot point, other than it's a budgetary
number. Nobody knows what that number is going to be.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Any further discussion? Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: How much was left?
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, we can look tha t up during lunch and
hopefully get that to you.
Milam: All right. Parking lot.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
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Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
absent.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion fails.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Any further questions in the Mayor's Office? Okay. Other Government.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Appreciate, again, the response on -- on the participatory
budgeting piece. I think this is a program that -- I think I said this last year -- has proven
its worth, but I think that it's appropriate at this point that we open that up to our entire city
to be able to participate, as opposed to a MYAC only program. I don't know how the rest
of the Council feels, if they want it to remain a MYAC program or open it up for all of our
seniors or neighborhood associations, individuals that have a good idea about how to
best use those dollars. I don't think this program was ever intended to be a MYAC
program. I know that we wanted to use them as -- to pilot it. I think they have done this
for three years, four years now. I think there were some years that I think have been more
successful than in others, but overall I really believe in the concept. I was wrong on this
one. But I think it's important that we open up to our entire city to be able to participate.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To that point I think that's a different -- it's a good discussion for a workshop,
which would happen soon. I think we can fund the program, but the discussion on how
the scope may or may not change, what -- what population group utilizes it, seniors versus
a neighborhood group, I think that requires a separate standalone discussion. We could
do in 20, 30 minutes in a workshop --
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: -- to -- to see what changes, if any, we would apply to the group that would expend
the budgeted money.
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? No opposition from me. I love the approach.
Borton: We will put -- get it on a workshop discussion. The seniors did a great job with it
this year.
Cavener: Agreed.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: So, my annual art comments. We are spending no less than -- what was
proposed is no less than 91,500 dollars on arts. That represents about 183 homes worth
of their entire Meridian city portion of their property taxes for arts, which includes 10,000
dollars for a public art consultant. It blows my mind. Obviously, you know, I'm not a fan
of MAPS, but it's just one art thing after another stuck through everywhere, to just spend
a fortune on arts.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? I don't know if there was a question there or just a statement.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I did have some questions actually for Hillary. I appreciate you
monitoring and coming into the room. From the response it sounds like that based on our
ordinance the city is prohibited from using MAPS dollars to pay for funding related to this
public-private partnership or for the art consultant. Is that accurate?
Bodnar: I wouldn't say that we are prohibited from spending that money. Sorry. We are
not prohibited from spending that money, just the MAPS funds can't be spent on that. So,
MAPS funds are limited to physical, tangible art on public property. So, the first one with
the public-private partnership, because it's not a public property, it can't be MAPS.
Cavener: Okay.
Bodnar: And, then, the consultant that's -- again, it's not a physical, tangible installation.
So, again, it falls outside of the -- what MAPS currently captures.
Cavener: Okay. So, Madam Mayor or Todd, I'm not quite sure who to ask on this one.
The city is not required to fund MAPS at 50,000; correct?
De Weerd: It follows the ordinance for a dollar per our --
Bodnar: Up to 50 cents per resident, not to exceed 50,000 dollars.
Cavener: We could, if we wanted to cap it at a lower amount this year and, then, use
General Fund dollars to hire the art consultant or fund the public private-partnership, we
could do that. Nothing would stop us from doing that. I guess, Madam Mayor, what --
Council, what I'm trying to get at is I support the 50,000 that we have allocated for art,
whether that's in public places, public-private partnerships, hiring our consultant -- I --
Hillary, I look to you to be the expert on this. I don't know if I'm quite sold on 50 ,000 for
public art, plus ten more for a consultant, plus an additional amount for this public-private
partnership. Essentially, you have 50,000 dollars, do what you think is best with that
budget. That's -- that's where I'm coming from. As opposed to -- when you factor in all
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the other costs related to public art, it's a -- it becomes a very large number that I struggled
to get behind.
Bodnar: So, my response would be I think that the ordinance mandates that budget to
be 50 cents per resident according to COMPASS. I don't know if you have the option to
reduce the MAPS funding.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, so, yeah, the Meridian City Code says City
Council shall on an annual basis appropriate for the MAPS program an amount from the
General Fund equivalent to 50 cents per resident.
Cavener: Up to -- up to 50,000.
Nary: Yes. And it can't be more than 50,000, but it has to be 50,000.
Cavener: Has to be. So --
Nary: Yes.
Cavener: -- it's just 50,000, then, every year?
Nary: Well, the max per resident. In other words, 100,000 --
Cavener: But it's --
Nary: Yes.
Cavener: -- it can't be more than 50,000. But you're also saying it can't be less than
50,000.
Nary: It cannot be less than 50,000.
De Weerd: And I think we have this conversation every year, too. And we haven't
changed the policy, so we are following policy.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess if that's the case, then, I guess what I was hoping to achieve was that
we would reduce MAPS by the 18,000 dollars that is equal to the budget request. I'm --
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If we can't do that, then, I'm not supportive of the budget request and would request
maybe you pull it from the budget.
De Weerd: Was that a motion?
Cavener: Sure. Yes.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
absent.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion fails.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Can I get some understanding about what the difference is between an AMA
strategic plan facilitator and a strategic plan consultant that are listed in Other
Government? One has I think a budgetary request of 10 ,000. The second one has a
5,000 ongoing cost.
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, there should just be a training -- a
conference attendance for this upcoming year and, then, a one time professional service
expense for 10,000. But the way we have envisioned this -- and working with our strategic
performance analyst who plans to do the strategic plan update next year, is he is intending
to go into a training and at that training, if he gets what he needs, we don't anticipate
hiring the professional -- using professional services to assist in that process. So, if there
is -- if there is something different in the -- in that component, but that's what should be a
one year -- one time training for him to attend --
Cavener: A one time training?
Simison: A one time training. That's the AMA strategic plan facilitator training --
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: -- that he would attend and, then, based upon what -- the information he
gathered from that, he may or may not employ the professional services to assist.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor? Makes sense. I guess, then, I would prefer, just form a process
standpoint, that if training isn't sufficient to, then, come back for a budget amendment for
the strategic plan professional services. That's -- I'm happy to make that a motion.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. So, what motion did we just make?
Cavener: I moved that we pull the strategic plan professional services budget request of
10,000 dollars.
De Weerd: Okay. And that's what the second was? Okay. Any discussion? Okay. Mr.
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, aye; Milam, aye; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, aye; Bernt,
absent.
De Weerd: Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further under Other Government?
Cavener: Oh. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: Sorry. I know there was a couple of questions that came in the Q and A packet.
Getting some better understanding about the Peak conference training. As -- I think I put
in my questions I thought I had recalled last year when Council funded this that there was
discussion that we were training the trainers and that would eliminate the need to , then,
bring, you know, consultants or to send staff out and so it just was a little surprising to see
these return and I'm sure there is an explanation for it, I just -- I couldn't gather what it
was based on the Q and A response.
De Weerd: I think in our department it was training for a strategic analyst to go to Denver
and take the week long -- take training and so that's all I know about it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I believe it said two people, at least if I recall. That's what the
budget request was for and that -- and the explanation was that we were training the
trainers.
Simison: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I mean what is -- this is for our
strategic plan and was to attend the Denver Peak training for -- for one week. So,
enhancing the skills that he has. We obviously -- we did have Peak come in to do training
for all of our staff and we have continued that process. In fact, I think he's continuing that
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contract through the end of September. Well -- he's back training four or five employees,
but this is to just further growth and development and that to learn more skills for our
principal person who's doing the majority of the Peak training in the city. So, through that
person what they learned is what is being taught to additional employees that we are
doing ourselves. So, it's ongoing training for -- for an individual to be our trainer.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: And this is for his personal and professional development.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. And this is outside of the other strategic plan training that we
just talked about.
Simison: Yes.
De Weerd: These are two different things. This is not a strategic planning, this is process
improvement, efficiencies, and -- and --
Simison: Change innovation.
De Weerd: -- more like clean -- clean manufacturing.
Milam: Madam Mayor? This is training the trainers; right? This is the person that's going
to train --
De Weerd: This is training our employees --
Milam: To train other employees at the city.
De Weerd: At a -- at a higher level. He has what they have done with the -- the Peak at
this -- this case went even further beyond that and it's a week long program that will give
him more in depth as he works with trainers as they train other staff.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: It sounds appropriate. I think the piece that I struggle with was what was
committed to Council last year, which was that by bringing people in we would forego the
need to send our staff out for additional trainings. So, it always makes it hard when
Council supports something based on the explanation and, then, maybe that's not always
the case. And if things change that -- that's okay, it just --
De Weerd: I think to maintain the current program he doesn't have to do this. This is his
professional development, just like sending someone to an APA conference, because
they have certification as a planner. This is to keep him current , to stretch him, and to
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give them a higher level of knowledge. It doesn't have anything to do with the Peak
program train the trainer. This is his professional development conference .
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: And, Madam Mayor, Councilman -- and he took out other things that he did this
year in place -- in order to allow him to do those type of things.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Everyone always gets super pumped about buses, so I won't spend forever on
it, but it's extremely expensive. So, in mine I pulled out of 419,250 dollars. I -- I -- I see
empty buses all the time. I just really don't want to pay for more empty buses. They do
not pay for themselves. Don't come close. So --
Cavener: Neither do parks.
Palmer: -- I did my own transportation -- it's a little different than buses, but -- shouldn't
pay for them as well. With the exception, obviously, that I have always said, veterans,
disabled, elderly, I'm more than happy to help there. But just the general public, you pay
for your own.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments? Okay. Outside of that you also have
streetlights.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think we should double the streetlight proposal. At least.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think it's a great idea. I want to make sure that -- I see Warren is already
rubbing his head. I want to make sure that we have got the availability to do that should
we double that. I think the intention is noble. It's something I certainly support, assuming
that we have got the staff support to be able to do something like that.
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De Weerd: Well -- and I think during one of the presentations that Jason they did -- oh.
They -- they took the list -- I don't know if they can do anymore than -- Dale, do you have
any comments on that? Or maybe Warren.
Bolthouse: Yeah, Madam Mayor. I'm going to -- I'm going to ask to defer to Warren. He
supervises Al in that activity.
Stewart: So, I guess one clarification question and that is are you talking about doubling
the amount of new streetlights that we put in or the amount of replacements ? Because
there is two components -- components in this budget. One of them is the standard
50,000 dollars that we utilize every year, which goes to put in brand new streetlights in
areas that have never had streetlights before. There is another component in here this
year that is another 50,000 to do high pressure sodium to LED conversions. So, from the
high pressure sodium to LED conversion piece of that, that's a fairly straightforward and
easy thing to do from the standpoint of increasing that, because it doesn't require a lot of
design work and things in advance, it's just identifying the lights and getting that work
done. From the standpoint of getting brand new streetlights out there , that's a little bit
more challenging. We do all of that design in house right now and so doubling that figure
would probably mean that we would have to go out and hire a consultant to help with
some of that design work. So, we wouldn't get quite as good of value for that at the
present moment, but we can certainly increase both, but the one is a little bit more
challenging than the other to do without additional help.
Cavener: So -- sorry. So, Warren, recognizing that as Council we are really good at
looking at budget amendments or budget proposals or budget books and thinkin g we
know better, probably to a fault more often, what -- is there a number that you would
support? Is there a recommendation that would come from you? It sounds like Council
Member Palmer is supportive of allocating additional dollars, but I want to make sure that
if we are -- and I'm supportive of the intent, I just want to make sure that whatever we are
increasing is something in line with something you would support . Does that make
sense?
Stewart: Yeah. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman
Cavener. Yeah, we can certainly do additional work. We would -- there is opportunity out
there. There is work to be done. We are trying to be sensitive to the cost and so we
proposed some increases in some areas. Like I say, if you want to do LED conversions,
that has a two to three year payback, because the LED lights are significantly more
efficient and last longer than the high pressure sodium . We can -- we can double that
50,000 to 100,000 and get that work done much more easily than to increase the brand
new installations to -- from 50,000 to 100,000, although that can be done, too. I just want
you to recognize that currently we do those designs internally to try and get the most bang
for our buck. We would probably have to go out and acquire -- or ask a consultant to help
us to do some of those designs, so we wouldn't get quite as many lights from the amount
of additional dollars as we got for the first 50,000, so --
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Cavener: It sounds -- it sounds like that maybe the best return on taxpayer dollars would
be on the sodium to LED replacements. I don't know if that's what your intent was, Council
Member Palmer, or not.
Palmer: Mr. Vice-President, my intent is to -- to grow this project, understanding you're
-- you have pretty well maxed your capacity for -- for what is possible with the expansion
of the lights, but with -- how fast the return is on just upgrading, I think any amount that
we can justify to the public in doing is -- is going to be a wise investment of taxpayer
dollars that are going to come back. Especially, I mean --
Cavener: Council Palmer, I don't know if you had made a motion or you wanted to restate
your motion if you had made one.
Palmer: And maybe at the end when we know where we are at a little bit better --
Cavener: Want to include it as a parking lot issue?
Palmer: -- to allocate some additional --
Cavener: Okay. Want to move it to a parking lot then?
Palmer: Probably will be more people here.
Cavener: That's okay. Okay. Todd, we will go ahead and move this to the parking lot.
Thanks. Thanks, Warren. Council, any other questions on Other Government?
Fields: Okay. That concludes our first portion of our Administrative Department. After
lunch we will reconvene and start with Fire Department.
Cavener: So, Council, if you want to maybe turn your mics off and give them to Jake so
he can get them charged. Council, we will adjourn until 1:15.
(Recess: 12:41 p.m. to 1:23 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. We will go ahead and pick this up. We stopped after the admin and
so next up is on the Fire side. I'm sorry, Jenny, that was your line.
Fields: That's okay.
De Weerd: Turn it over to Jenny.
Fields: All right. Any comments or questions for Fire Department?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Just -- I want to thank Chief Niemeyer for giving me a -- I think a very thorough
response to my question on a position. It was -- it was stemmed from my recollection -- I
thought that you had served in that role, but didn't want to make any assumptions. So,
appreciate your response in answering just my one question. So, I'm good.
De Weerd: Anyone else? Okay. We will move to Parks and Recreation.
Fields: I hear no questions for Parks or --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Fields: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I have got a couple questions I think for Parks. Let me grab my notes. The
first question, Steve, is -- kind of goes back to some of our conversations earlier about
cost recovery and as I read this response it is that fees that come in after all the costs are
covered leaves about 20 some thousand dollars to cover this new position. Is that
accurate? Am I reading the responses the right way?
Siddoway: Yes. Based on the FY-18, which is the last full data of actual cost recovery
that we have a full year of data for, it covers all direct costs, including the site supervisor
position, all the scorekeeper positions, all those, but the actual coordinator position there
is about, you know, 25,000'ish dollars. What was the exact number? Twenty -- 22,572
that would be available to go towards either, you know, a portion of that salary or other
overhead, so you might want to --
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Steve, my assumption is that the number -- that doesn't take
into account some of the costs of some of the -- like infrastructure, like the lights for a field
or any type of capital improvements related to any type of programming that we do with
our sports leagues.
Siddoway: It does not have a capital cost recovery.
Cavener: Okay. So -- Madam Mayor? I just -- I really support the position, I just -- I don't
think that this is a position that needs to be funded with taxpayer dollars . I think that a
look at our fees to -- if this position is warranted and needed, that we should be using our
fees to cover that particular salary, because the fee payers are the ones that are doing
the direct benefit from those positions.
Siddoway: And I get where you're coming from. The -- in fact, one of the things that we
may want to look at with the next update of the park system master plan -- believe it or
not it's five years old at the end of this year already, so we will probably do a five year
update. Talk about that a year from now. Not for this budget cycle. But, you know, we
-- it could be a good time to look at what we call, you know, the pyramid of cost recovery
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from those that are almost wholly community benefit to those that are almost wholly
personal benefit and where they fall on that helps to dictate how much cost recovery there
should be and this is toward the top of that pyramid and so there is a -- a greater cost
recovery expected. It hasn't ever been a hundred percent, but that's what I hear you
proposing that we talk about it. We were open to that. I'm also open to looking this year
at the -- the fees and trying to, you know, get that percentage that's available to help cover
the position up higher. I think there is some -- some room for that. But based on history
that's -- that's the open book. That's where we are.
Cavener: Makes sense. And I don't know if that's right. Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: No, that's all right. This is supposed to be more informal.
Cavener: I applaud you for wanting to kind of move into the next phase of the master
plan. I almost feel like that this -- because this topic has come up a couple of times today
and I think -- I know that it's largely being led by myself, I don't know if it warrants waiting
until we look at it just within the siloed of Parks, but really citywide. And, again, I don't
know if there is support to having this conversation before the end of the year or this is a
January 2020 and beyond conversation , but it's something that our CFO is -- and I have
talked a lot about. It's something that I brought in and I want us moving closer towards
that sooner rather than moving further away or at a later point in time. So, I'm not
supportive of this position the way it's currently funded , but if we can identify a model
based on our fee updates that we are able to recover the cost or nearly all the costs, I'm
happy to support it at that point in time.
Siddoway: The -- let me grab some notes. Just a second. The position is important to
us for -- just to keep up with the growth. I mean we are currently maxed out at what we
can provide. Some of the numbers I gathered when we -- when we first created a sports
coordinator position we had 262 teams in the league combined. Since that time -- oh, am
I covering up the mic? Since that time we have added 321, so -- more. So, more than
-- more than doubled. About 123 percent growth. So, we have 583 now. If we want to
keep growing with the growth of the city, then, we will need another junior coordinator to
do that. The -- the position is also one that is a high burnout position , because they are
always on call.
Cavener: Sure.
Siddoway: You know, these are -- every evening they -- they have to respond when an
umpire doesn't show up or, you know, there is issues at the field. Having a second
position would allow us to have that on-call nature of that split where that one can be on,
one can be off, maybe trade off weeks. That's an important part for me to see just for the
longevity of this position. It's one that has had a turnover rate and -- but I do hear what
you're saying about the fee structure and wanting to modify the fee structure to see how
much we can bring on. Right now we are following the adopted Council policy that's in
the master plan and we are following that and what I'm hearing is a desire to relook at the
policy, but this is -- our proposal is based on the current policy.
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Cavener: Sure. And, Madam Mayor, I mean this is a -- you're a victim of your own
success; right? I mean because you hire great people you run a great department and
there is a large demand that that gap -- that whole of the amount of the taxpayers are
subsidizing grows and grows and, again, that's -- if we had two options, one about how
are we going to find a way to pay for a second person , is much better than us having a
conversation about how are we going to grow our recreation program ; right? I mean this
is -- this is a good problem to have. Like I said, I am -- I'm open to other -- other solutions
to find ways to pay for this position, I'm just not supportive of it under its current funding
model.
De Weerd: I think the -- the challenge here is our departments are following current policy
and these policy discussions need to happen before our budget hearing and as Steve
has pointed out, we are wearing out our employees and that's under the current policy.
We need the position now to help alleviate the impact that the program even as it is today
is having on our personnel. The policy discussion can come, but that doesn't change the
need. So, it's --
Cavener: Madam Mayor. The position is needed now or the position is needed for the
next budget year?
De Weerd: I think the -- well --
Siddoway: We could use it now.
Cavener: Then, again, why did we not see a -- a budget amendment? I mean that's the
process is that when our departments have a need, we have got a Council that I think is
very sympathetic to having those conversations and if we don't see it and, then, we are
being told in the budget meeting that it's needed now, as opposed to in the budget
year --
De Weerd: Well, they are not going to come with something that is not a critical, but we
are finding that we are burning out positions -- people in that position and he's trying to
alleviate that with the tool that he has and using the process that is -- is most common
and that is the budget process and certainly he knows he has an option to bring it through
in a budget amendment, but that's not preferred and that is a message that has been
delivered by Council as well.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Sorry. A clarification. A message by Council about what?
Milam: A budget amendment.
Cavener: That we don't support them?
De Weerd: That you don't like to see them. You would prefer that they are in the
budget --
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Siddoway: That they are only emergencies.
Cavener: When they are needed. Yeah. If the position is needed, we should see it.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I do support this position, because I know how badly it is needed and I guess to
that if -- if Steve came to us in May and said I want a budget amendment, you know what
our response would have been? The budget hearing is coming up, put it in your budget.
I mean that's -- that is the message that we very -- other than emergency situations --
very strongly put across, especially if it's close to the budget time. So, you know, I mean
I'm sure if it was urgent urgent we would have done so. But that doesn't -- there is a
difference between needed and urgent and -- but I do highly support your philosophy on
fee recovery for all of these independent services that we are providing that are for
specific users that the taxpayer should not be subsidizing the benefit, so -- we are getting
a new park -- we have -- we are going to need this position if we are going to grow at all,
why are we spending millions of dollars on parks with fields that we wouldn't be able to
utilize if we don't have the staff to --
Cavener: So, Madam Mayor, I appreciate what you were saying about -- that this needs
to be a separate conversation. I was under the impression when we started having
conversations about cost for shelter rentals that that conversation was going to happen
and it's been at least a year since we have had the conversation about shelters. So, to
me if -- if we want to have this conversation between now and October 1, let's have that
and now we have got a motivator to do it, so that we have got some questions answered,
so that we can, then, fund some of these positions with budget amendments beginning
the fiscal year. That's where I am. Again, that's what's great about -- we are a
collaborative bunch and so if everyone else feels differently, I feel like -- I wish there was
a way we could know everybody's decisions, so we can move on, rather than talking
about something for 20 or 30 minutes, but I still maintain that holding this position until we
can lay out a better cost recovery for the position.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I appreciate your position on it and
I can certainly see a discussion down the road, but I think it's really warranted within the
next budget and kind of as soon as possible within the next budget cycle , because I can
see us losing service for our customer and citizens that are involved here, as well as our
employees in the burnout rate. I mean we have grown the program so rapidly I really am
kind of surprised that you haven't needed to be before us saying we need another person,
because -- I mean it's amazing how, you know, the program has grown that our team puts
on and it shows and we have got to keep up not only with the staff, but with the programs
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that you have created. So, it is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy here that you need more
staff.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. And, Council Member Roberts, you hit the nail on the head,
because just -- my philosophy is that those that are using the services should be the ones
that are paying for the position, not our average taxpayer if they are not choosing to use
those services.
Little Roberts: I do not -- do not disagree with that. It's just a matter of I think timing.
Siddoway: What I would like to see -- and I don't know if this will resonate or not, but that
we fund the position so that we can keep up with demand, but, then, do that with an
agreement to have the cost recovery and talk about the fees that would need to be in
place to get to the level that you're looking for it to be, I think that might take more than a
few weeks to --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Steve, could you do something similar to what we do with the impact fees and
-- and show all costs and what that fee would have to be to truly be a cost recovery?
Right now you do it to a certain extent, but, then, add administration onto it.
Siddoway: Right. So, there is a division between administrative costs and direct fees
and the current model recovers all the direct fees, but not all the administrative costs and
I --
De Weerd: And what that would be.
Lavoie: Well, Madam Mayor, I can answer that. That is something that Brad and I -- we
are working on associated with a priority based budgeting. We have been working with
this team to determine all the activities and all the costs associated with the activity, so
we can calculate that exact number that you're looking for, because his team can help us
project how many teams and how many I guess buy-ins we have and we can divide that
into the total revenue needed to go exactly where you need it. Can't get it done in two
weeks. If -- I like where Steve's going. I mean if you're open to allowing us to get the
position rolling, kind of like what Anne was talking about -- our goal is to have a fee cost
recovery policy in place sooner than later and his department would fall under that bucket
just like every other activity and program we have as a city. Again, it's really -- I don't --
kind of like what Joe says, we are little bit not timely for your answer. I think where you're
going is what we are anticipating to do with Brad and the PVB and activity based
budgeting and things like that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Todd, do you think we could have that presentation in middle
of September? Is that enough time? Recognizing -- I wouldn't ask you for two weeks,
but I would love for us to have this conversation before the end of the fiscal year. And,
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again, in terms of your ability and, then, Madam Mayor's willingness and ability to get it
scheduled on an agenda meeting I guess.
Lavoie: Well, I can definitely work with the team and see how fast we can develop a
policy. It will be our first policy we have written for the city, so we have to do some
research with our agents -- fellow agencies to see what they have written, but as you
know my direction -- I have been trying to rewrite policy. So, again, you're right, I think
we are on the same page, I will do what I can to get it done sooner than later for you.
Cavener: I'm supportive -- sorry. Madam Mayor. I'm supportive of that as long as this is
something that stays on our radar and is presented sooner rather than later, which is why
I like to try and speak in -- as close to specifics as possible, so --
Lavoie: So, I'm more than happy to stay in contact with you, Luke, and we can make sure
this thing stays on the whiteboard.
Cavener: Great.
Siddoway: Any other questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Steve, I think it was the last budget or somewhere -- Treg and I were talking
about the File Mile pathway connection there --
Siddoway: Along Fairview?
Palmer: -- with the pole in the middle of the sidewalk.
Siddoway: Yes.
Palmer: Was that the last budget year?
Siddoway: It was part of the last budget year and what we agreed to do was pull it out of
the last budget cycle, work with ACHD, adjacent property owners, to get more information
before bringing it back. We have done that. It looks like we can -- it looks like, based on
our conversations with ACHD, that we can make this work within existing right of way
without needing to purchase additional land from adjacent property owner s, so we have
not approached the adjacent property owners, if that's part of your question, but we have
worked with ACHD and they have said based on the concept that we can work with them
to fit it within existing right of way.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. I have walked this a number of times and I love pathway
extension projects, so I'm fine with them. This one I just struggle with, because that
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property is going to be developed, whether it's next year or ten years now, it eventually
will happen and that will be part of that development. If it was just gravel, then, sure, let's
make the connection expansion. This would be an expensive connection to make where
there is pavement there, it just doesn't meet the -- the qualifications of being able to call
it a pathway, you know, per our master pathway, but it -- it's there, you just can't have, you
know, Mother Goose and five kids --
Cavener: The Palmers?
Palmer: Yeah. There is a telephone pole right in the middle of one part of it and you have
to go around it, but there is concrete right up to the wood all the way around it and it's --
it's sufficient, it's safe, there is even a raised concrete -- it's only two inches or six inches,
I don't know what it is, but it's clearly defined as a pedestrian facility the whole length
there. So, I have a really hard time spending money on moving that faster than just doing
it somewhere else and having that develop when it develops.
Siddoway: And I think you hit the nail on the head for what the philosophical discussion
needs to be. It's there -- there is an extruded curb and some asphalt and a narrow
sidewalk with a telephone pole in the middle of it. There is a paved connection, but in our
estimation it's substandard, it's -- it wants to be a major pathway and we would like to see
it improved sooner rather than later, so we are bringing it to you saying we think it's
substandard and not as safe as it should be and the question is is it good enough and
safe enough. But we think it ought to be improved.
De Weerd: I guess the question is as you're directing people to the pathway system are
-- are we upholding our safety commitment to our citizens by having them -- and that's
the philosophical question I think that Parks has tried to grapple with is they feel that, no,
it's not meeting that safety standard.
Siddoway: The other thing that we have done is we have tried to separate the design
construction documents and utility relocations from the construction , so that as we go into
the -- the design -- and understand what this is really going to take -- we can come back
and say, well, now it's designed, we know exactly what it's going to cost, now we will
spend the money in this fiscal year doing that, but this is -- there is design utility, relocation
of the pole, things like that to get ready for that. If you wanted us to do something -- come
back for relocating utilities I suppose we could do that, but we are asking for the ability to
-- to get an actual design construction documents and utility relocation done and ready,
so that the following fiscal year or whenever Council approves, we can come back for the
construction.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Steve, it's been a while since I have been out there. Help me -- let me see it
from the eyes of a user what are the -- what are the safety concerns with -- what are
we --
Siddoway: Shall we bring up the -- an aerial photo? I don't know. Jenny, do you have
the ability to bring up an aerial? So, you see the red line on the left, that is where the
existing Five Mile Creek pathway comes up and T's in. The kind of salmon color is what
we are talking about, from there over to Lake's Place, and the area along the frontage
has asphalt with the extruded curb along that undeveloped portion . Where the car lot is
-- it looks like they might be able to bring up an actual aerial photo and get better -- I don't
have to try and describe the existing conditions.
De Weerd: Thank you, staff.
Siddoway: Right there. Yeah. Okay. So, right there you can see the extruded curb with
asphalt along it and, then, it comes over to the car lot on the far right and that's where it
ties into an existing four or five foot sidewalk. Right there is the -- the power pole that's
right in the middle of the sidewalk and if you click 3D you might be able to -- over on the
right-hand side. There we go. So, that's -- that -- there is the existing condition right
there. So, it's a narrow sidewalk. There is -- there is utilities. We would -- what we would
like to do is get that connection better made all the way over past the gas station to the
signalized intersection. That's what we are looking at today.
De Weerd: Thanks.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? So, Steve, when you guys talk about the safety concern, it's
the -- it's the raised asphalt and the power pole?
Siddoway: It's not wide enough to be -- still wide enough, but you have to go around the
power pole. It's -- it's narrow. It just doesn't meet pathway standards, so --
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I agree it doesn't meet -- I think our pathway standards. The
safety piece is the part that always gets me really fired up and that's why I'm asking you
as kind of the experts, when I hear safety concerns -- I mean if the raised asphalt wasn't
there I would say that's probably dangerous, but the raised asphalt was put there for a
reason.
Siddoway: You're talking about the extruded curb?
Cavener: Yeah. The extruded curb.
De Weerd: It doesn't take it all the way --
Siddoway: But it doesn't -- it doesn't go from there past the existing businesses. There
is none in that area -- you can see where it ends right there.
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Cavener: Sure. Because at that point, then, you're on the sidewalk.
Siddoway: Yeah. Although there is no curb there. If you look. I mean it's -- it's still at
that grade, but --
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Steve, you're the expert. I -- from my thought Council Member
Palmer caught something that wasn't on my radar. I'm -- I'm all about funding pathways
and if you think this is where the pressing need is, I will support that, but to me it just
seems like -- I'm not seeing the -- the safety concern that was articulated. I think that it
definitely should be improved to meet the City of Meridian quality, but in terms of places
that I think we could be investing in pathways, there does seem to be other places that
are undeveloped that would be warranting of investment, but if you think this is the best
place, I will support your request. It seems like expanding pathway connections, even
though this isn't a quote, unquote, pathway, it connects the path and I would rather us
invest in -- in new infrastructure than on a piece that will be brought to our standards via
redevelopment.
Siddoway: Yeah. And what we have done in preparation for the budget process was look
system wide at where can we work with either Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District or ACHD
to make an impact on an already built out section that needs a pathway improvement that
isn't all -- just on the cusp of being developed and being developer driven, because we
want to put our -- invest our dollars in the built-out portions that are substandard. So,
there is a lot of other attention going on around the periphery where it's development
driven, but the two -- and this is one of the two that's part of this proposal, but the two that
we propose to be part of this budget process are where we see an investment of city
dollars can make a significant impact on the quality of the pathway system and Five Mile
Creek pathway has been deemed, you know, the number -- the top spine that we want to
get connected. So, we have been focusing a lot of attention on Five Mile Creek pathway
all the way through and this is a -- you know, kind of a missing front tooth for us.
De Weerd: But, Steve, did ACHD put that piece in? Did they --
Siddoway: They did.
De Weerd: Why can't they extend the curbing all the way down to the -- the light?
Siddoway: I don't know. I wasn't part of that project.
De Weerd: And, really, that is the -- the crux of this -- the issue is you have a high speed
arterial road there -- major arterial road and we are putting people on there, because it is
a connection to our pathway and you have some safety aspect there, but it doesn't extend
all the way down to where you're --
Siddoway: Correct.
De Weerd: -- asking them to --
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Siddoway: The safety aspect here is pretty good. I think once you get to where you have
a four foot and utility --
De Weerd: Right there.
Siddoway: So, go down that way. Click there. There we go. All right. So, the width here
is -- is very narrow and as we continue down that same narrow sidewalk with utilities
adjacent still exists. What we would like to do is just be able to have a continuous pathway
that would get here, then, it would cross the street and here we have a full ten foot wide
existing pathway section that continues north and onto the rest of Five Mile Creek
pathway. So, we have got good pathway north of here, good pathway south of here and,
then, just right along the frontage of -- of Fairview this is -- this is what we currently have.
Cavener: And then cross the street.
Siddoway: Yeah.
De Weerd: And I think that those sidewalks were required by ACHD in -- as a temporary
fix until Fairview was improved.
Siddoway: I think they have been existing for a lot of years.
De Weerd: We keep waiting.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. And it doesn't look that sketchy now, but when we biked it
at like 5:00 o'clock in the afternoon and busy traffic, it felt very sketchy. I would not want
to have set a family of small children on that and it's got beautiful pathways on both sides
of it. So, I think that's a fairly reasonable opportunity to fix that section.
Cavener: Okay. If that's what we think the best is I'm not opposed.
Siddoway: Okay.
Cavener: Appreciate Council Member Palmer bringing that up. That was helpful.
De Weerd: And as a user. Any other questions on the Parks item? Okay.
Fields: Okay. That brings us to Police Department. Any comments or questions for our
Police Department?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I feel like we are not adequately -- I don't think we are funding enough officer
positions. Previously we have requested for more. I understand it's hard to fill positions,
but it's really hard to fill a position that doesn't exist. They are needed and if they are
available to fill, then, we can make the effort to fill them. The ones that can't be -- can't
put them out there, can't advertise them, can't fill them. So, have an extra hard time filling
twice as many later than hopefully filing at least a portion of what's possible now.
De Weerd: I didn't hear a question in that, but --
Palmer: If anybody else agrees then --
Cavener: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Again, I want to give the chief a chance to respond. I appreciate you bringing
it up. I go back to I think that's why we have got the budget amendment process. I think
that this Council time and time again for our emergency services is really supportive of
making sure when it comes to personnel that they have got what they need. I would hope
that with three new council members coming on that would continue and that I would
always be supportive of the chief of either department comes, say they need more people,
I'm happy to support that as long as they can show me the reasons why. You often don't
have to wonder if we create too many positions is that an extra burden on the department
to try and fill them to onboard -- and, chief, can you maybe provide some context at least
as to why you didn't come with a request for more officers?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I did. So, what I did is I submitted to you what the patrol
allocation study recommended based upon December 2018 . That is patrol allocation
study that we have approved through Council several years ago. So, that's what was
submitted for the initial. There has been a lot of discussion about is that enough, how
many can you hire, should you do a budget amendment, should you fund them now and
it can go either way, but there is -- there is gives and takes with all that. So, is there a
need for additional officers? Absolutely. Our officers are being overworked. I'm looking
at the patrol log as we speak. We are on two suicidal calls, we are on some fraud calls
and thefts in progress. Our officers need additional help. When it comes down to how
many can you actually hire at one time, that's -- that's always our best guess. I can tell
you, though, that we have a better time recruiting people when there is known positions
that are open and not positions that are unfunded , because this market is really tough
trying to fill positions right now and you're going to find people that do want to become
police officers are going to apply for departments that have funded positions , not
unfunded positions, because it is a five to seven month process to go through and so
when they look at it they go as I know Meridian has positions, I'm going to dedicate my
time to them, whereas they may not go I'm going to go apply for this department, because
they may have some positions, but we don't know that yet. So, as far as recruiting, it's
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easier to recruit when you have funded positions. Now, as far as budget amendment, I
absolutely have faith in this Council and this Mayor that if I came to you and said I have
six additional applicants that I could hire if they were funded , that Council would approve
those in a heartbeat. So, the question is is if we know we need them why don't we fund
them or are we willing to gamble what a new Council will do as of January and that,
frankly, scares me a little bit. I will still come in and pitch it and we will still do what -- what
is best for this community and for this department , but that does scare me a little bit that
a new Council may not be as apt to approve this. So, it really comes down to how do you
want to fund it and when do you want to fund it, so -- but we did make those requests.
Milam: Madam Mayor? I see the new Council -- there is some people I'm supporting that
are running and I feel very confident that they will support you in the same type of manner
that we have, but how many open positions do you have right now for officers?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, we are in the process of filling in every single position we
have. I got job -- two job interviews last week. I have one tomorrow morning. We are
going to have -- barring everybody passes the background. I have to speak that, because
every time I get hopeful we lose someone. With all the positions we currently have we
will have every position filled. We do have a couple of retirements that are coming up
that those will be positions that we will have to fill with new applicants. We just had
additional lateral officer interviews last week. I don't know what the status is of those
applicants. So, we are doing really good about filling the current positions that we have.
Milam: Fantastic. And you know I have always been a supporter and will support however
many positions you say that you need.
Lavey: Twenty-five.
Milam: Okay. Well, in your -- in the CFP it's eight. In the budget request it's eight. So,
why is it eight if -- if it's -- if more are needed?
Lavey: The budget request was 17.
Milam: It was 17 was the original budget request. Sixteen?
Lavey: Well, it was 17 with the lateral corporal.
Milam: Okay.
Lavey: That was eliminated because of funding issues with the school district. So, six
additional.
De Weerd: I think the discussion about how many positions to bring in front of Council
and I came in front of the command staff as well with the same statement that Councilman
Cavener made is it brings up a budget amendment and you have a Council that supports
public safety. It is our number one responsibility. But when you're already saying you
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have four openings now that hopefully will fill, you have 35 positions looking at retirement
in the next five years. You have a request for eight.
Lavey: More like 47.
De Weerd: And -- did I underestimate?
Lavey: You did, but --
De Weerd: Okay.
Lavey: We don't know that exact number, but it is -- that is a lower number that what --
De Weerd: But we were trying to bring a reasonable number that was -- as long as I have
been Mayor there has been three weeks that we have been fully staffed.
Lavey: Yeah.
De Weerd: And -- and so I'm -- I'm trying to bring a balanced budget and realistic
expectation. I would love to go out -- and this is what we talked to the command staff. If
you get a large group of qualified applicants and you actually have qualified and
background checked more than the amount of openings approved to be filled,
anticipating maybe you have a couple of requirements in the next six months and come
to Council and say we are in a unique position that we will actually be able to fill all of our
positions, plus tax, would Council allow, one, to have the double overlap, we hire as
someone's retiring, or that we would add new FTEs and I feel very confident with the
history of our Council, regardless of who the new council members are , that the history
of our Council has fully supported the Police Department and the positions that we need.
So, that is why you have the number in front of you that you have.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: In a -- more of a unique situation than that, it's a recruiting tool to have the
number on the books, as opposed to -- I don't know what position -- you might -- you
might just put out there and have -- I don't know. This is a highly skilled, very specific type
of person that is required to fill the positions and if -- if it's a recruiting tool to be able to
have them available on the books, I don't think it should be necessary that we receive as
many qualified applicants as positions exist to have the positions available. If -- if it means
that right now they are a few short qualified applicants for the positions available, if we
were to increase, how many positions are available that we actually would love to fill and
that means we may get -- if we do six more and that means we get three or four additional
qualified applicants because they were available on the books , then, I think it's a worthy
cause to have it on the books, because if they don't get filled they don't cost us.
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Cavener: But you still allocate the dollars. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: We turn money back every single year in personnel from the Police
Department. We also have a new program with the community policing -- community
service officers and we want to see how that works. There is -- there is some moving
parts. I want our Police Department to feel that they have the support and -- for what they
need to make sure we don't burn out our officers and -- and continue to be a safe city, but
to over inflate our -- our personnel budget, one that we can't hire to -- is something that
this Council and Mayor have told departments we want to keep our expectations
reasonable and in line with what we can do and if there is opportunities to do something
additional that you have a Council that is ready to have your back and to fund the
additional FTEs. I think it's a pretty strong statement already to say you would have eight
new FTEs for police officers. I don't think people are going to count everyone in the room
and say, oh, well, I don't stand a chance, I'm going to walk out. They won't.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Maybe they will. Yes.
Cavener: I don't want to put Crystal on the spot, but do you know on an average how
many new officers -- or I guess the chief would probably know this, too. How many new
officers we hire a year for the past two or three years? And I -- the reason why I'm asking
this is that if -- if the number is less than the amount of officers than we are requesting, I
tend to kind of roll along with what the Mayor is saying and bring back a budget
amendment. But if we feel like that we can fill more positions in this fiscal year, that I am
supportive of -- of increasing that number. I just want to make sure it's based on data
about what we can do. Because one of the things that I think that our department should
be really proud of that you see in the video you produce and you hear every time I talk to
one of your officers is the culture and I -- I know that I would be a Council Member that if
we had funded positions at the end of the year and they hadn't been hired , I would say,
well, why -- why did we put them in our budget in the first place. So, I guess the question
is how -- how many do you think you could hire in a particular year and still be able to
maintain that culture that makes our department so strong.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, if you recall last year we foregone requesting positions
for that -- that exact fact is we were still in the process of filling positions. We are in a
very good position this year of having those -- those filled. So, it's not uncommon for us
to be able to train 18 to 20 people in a given year, we just need to have the applicants. I
can't tell you what the trends are, because we have good years and we have bad years.
We have good batches of people, bad batches of people. Depending on what's currently
in the media, sometimes they want to do the job, sometimes they don't, and so we have
gotten really lucky some years and have had 15 to 20 applicants to choose from and ,
then, we have had other years where we had two or three . So, it's kind of the apples to
oranges comparison. I can tell you right now that based upon the information and
feedback I have heard we are going to pursue to fill six additional bodies. Obviously, we
are not going to offer those jobs until we get confirmation from Council, but I got a pretty
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firm -- pretty firm commitment that you would support additional people . So, if we find
that -- we will find them. The only drawback that I come up with is that we might have to
change how we do things and give HR some -- some leeway is that we can only advertise
positions that we have openings for. So, if we have filled those positions we can't
advertise any more positions until we have funding authority to do so . So, we will have
to go manipulate that a little bit to -- so, there is no way I can tell you that we have six
additional bodies to hire, because I can't post those and recruit those . So, we will do
everything we can to try to fill those positions and get back to you and make those
requests, but, you know, there is a whole bunch of, you know, little unintended
consequences you got to deal with as well.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor and Chief, so your original proposal had a total of 16
officers?
Lavey: The original was I had 17 in there, but one of those would not be included a part
of the -- of the staffing allocation. So, there is -- there is 16 police officers that are in there,
yes.
Little Roberts: Okay. And you are current -- Madam Mayor, follow up.
De Weerd: Yes.
Little Roberts: And you are currently kind of up to date on the positions that you have
open, if everything --
Lavey: We are in the process of filling the last open positions that we have, so --
De Weerd: Not counting the --
Lavey: Not counting the ten that's in front of you in this --
Little Roberts: Right.
Lavey: -- proposal. Yes. So, we are currently actively recruiting more people to fill the
new funded positions, hopefully, that this session will -- will bring us.
Little Roberts: So, I -- given all that information I would definitely be supportive of
somewhere between eight and the 16 needed.
Lavey: Well, hopefully, it's ten --
Little Roberts: Ten?
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Lavey: -- to 16, because eight would be cutting us --
De Weerd: You have ten in front of you.
Lavey: You have ten in front of you now.
Little Roberts: Okay.
Lavey: So, don't make it eight.
Little Roberts: It says eight, so --
Lavey: I think it's -- yeah. So, we need -- we want to look at sworn positions, I think,
because one of those is a training sergeant. One of those is a canine officer and, then,
there is eight additional police officers. But we are all police officers.
Little Roberts: That's the enhancement I'm looking at --
Lavey: Yeah.
Little Roberts: -- because I can't read that one from here and this one puts my back at --
Lavey: It's -- it's ten sworn positions.
Little Roberts: So, somewhere between ten and 16 --
Lavey: Yeah.
Little Roberts: -- I would be happy to support.
Cavener: Council, here is -- here is kind of what I'm -- a couple of different paths I think
we could head down. I think I'm supportive of raising the number probably by three , with
the commitment to the chief of the department that come Janu ary, if things change, I will
be happy to continue to advocate for additional officers as needed , to bring a budget
amendment based on -- based on the need. I guess the follow-up question is -- chief, is
if you're getting these four new officers hired, is there a need to fund additional officers
today in terms of -- you just went through a recruitment. Are the -- are we in the same
scenario where you have got stellar candidates, but can't offer the position, because the
funding is not available?
Lavey: Madam -- Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I do not believe we are in that
position today. We are currently filling open positions that we have. I will say that about
a month, month and a half ago, we had an opportunity to be completely filled and we had
one additional candidate and I did propose to the Mayor that we had a retirement coming
and asked her if she would support hiring this additional person and she said I would
support that, we were going to come back in front of Council to see what Council would
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say and, then, that person washed out. So, we are currently just filling our open positions.
We are not in a position where we feel like we are turning people away because we can't
offer them something, but also I would like to share with you -- if you were to give
additional police officers -- there is always the -- like I said, the unintended consequences
and Jenny and I had talked about this and she probably knows what I'm going to bring up
with vehicles -- is we supply one vehicle for every three officers. Well, when you hired
eight officers that was -- is that three vehicles? Is that two vehicles? We opted to go on
the lower end and only go two vehicles and, then, I discussed with her that if we were to
get any more additional bodies, we would have to add vehicles. So, if you're going to add
three as just what we are talking about hypothetically, it's going to be two more cars. So,
just when you calculate that it's three -- every three positions as one car, so --
Milam: Can you tell me how many households taxes that would be?
Lavey: How many cups of coffee?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I know -- I would love to have my 500 dollars go to police officers than several
other things, so I -- you don't need it today, but I don't know if you would like to be able to
be advertising and whatnot in between now and October, if you get to that point, just as
the whole discussion has been -- even if it's September and you're like -- I want to be
advertising positions, come to us and let's rectify it and create a position, so we are not
wasting time and losing opportunities that -- to get somebody good, because we are
waiting for October 1st.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I feel confident in the direction I'm getting
from -- from Council and -- and all with working with HR and with the Mayor. We will
proceed and I guess if we upset someone we will beg for forgiveness, but we are going
to push and try to fill the positions, because that is one of the number one things that's
always cited about how great of a city we are -- is how safe of a city we are and we know
that times are changing, but people still feel safe and they still come here. So, we want
to do everything in our power to make sure that we don't lose that. So, we will push
forward based upon the direction we are hearing, what's best for our community and we
will make it happen and, then, Todd can work the magic forms to make sure that we are
doing it properly.
Lavoie: Speaking of making the magic happen and all whatnot, I'm going to hand this
over to Jenny. Jenny has calculated what your three -- I think it's three was the proposal
by somebody.
Milam: Three plus two cars.
Lavoie: Three people, two cars, and I will hand it over to Jenny.
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Fields: Okay. So, the -- what I'm hearing is you would like to have a number of three
police officers, plus two vehicles. The total is 451,643 dollars.
Lavoie: So, note that the Mayor did provide you a balanced budget.
Fields: Four fifty-one six forty-three.
Lavoie: So, with this this would take us out of budget at this moment by 451,000.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Todd, did the 720,000 dollars that was presented at the start
of the meeting take us out of a balanced budget?
Lavoie: It did. We parking lot -- or we didn't balance that yet, but we have -- you're a
hundred percent correct. Yeah. Hundred percent.
Borton: What percentage -- Madam Mayor? If we were to keep the 720 and add this or
whatever any of us do, the 1.12 percent -- .85 or --
Milam: Two percent.
Fields: So, the question is if we run up the police officers from eight to 11 -- items that we
are looking at? It will be -- 1.5.
De Weerd: 1.5 percent.
Lavoie: The 1.5. 1.5 equals half a million. Because our three percent this year is a one
million -- almost one million even. So, if you need about half a million, so it would be one
point --
Palmer: Well -- because it was the 720, a portion of that was --
Lavoie: I'm not even counting that as --
De Weerd: One point one two is what that would have equated to.
Palmer: Because you said something else.
Lavoie: Got it. You got it. So, to give you 450,000 or half a million is 1.5 percent of the
three percent. How we fund 720, that's a different discussion, different day.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Jenny, so without the other shift in the 720 -- well, what does
720 represent on the -- of the three, if the other shift hadn't happened from -- I think it was
the fun bus.
De Weerd: About two point --
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Fields: So, if we weren't going to utilize fund balance to fund the fixed route transit --
Palmer: Much better way of saying it.
Fields: -- it would be roughly around 2.1. And we are including the discussion about 720.
So, if we were going to fund 720, not -- oh, are we talking about not funding the three
officers or what -- I guess I need some clarification.
Palmer: Either way.
Fields: So, the --
Palmer: Utilizing the fund balance or --
Lavoie: To answer --
Palmer: And it's all just shifting numbers around.
Fields: Yeah.
Palmer: Not relevant, but --
De Weerd: If you look at using the three percent you could fund the benefits and
compensation and two officers for your three percent.
Lavoie: Three percent equals one million and right now you're adding 720, plus 460. We
don't have enough money in our three percent to allow you to do that. Yeah.
De Weerd: Any other questions for police? I think we are --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: Are we done wrapping at least the conversation up around --
Milam: Two officers and one car.
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: -- staffing?
De Weerd: And that would be 280,000 for two officers and one car.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Chief, do you have a -- an image of the emergency rescue
vehicle that we can either pull up so that we can see --
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Lavoie: In the book.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, it was part of the -- it's in the book and it's --
Cavener: I apologize.
Lavey: -- part of the -- part of the original presentation, but it is a commercial F-350 van
is what it looks like. It looks like a commercial delivery van. A little taller.
Lavoie: Jenny, was the picture --
Lavey: Yeah. That's a perfect example. It would look like the Prime vans, just white in
color.
Lavoie: Luke, it might have been given to you as a supplemental. Maybe you put it in
the -- in the back, because it came in afterwards. I'm guessing. There it is right there.
De Weerd: You can look behind you.
Lavey: The outside looks like a Prime van. Inside it's just a little different.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Chief, appreciate it, again, both the narrative in our budget packet, as well as
in your response from the QA section, but one of the comments that was in there was
about -- that it would -- I think have kind of a significant lifespan, because we are not
planning to use it on a regular basis. Lots of people have different definitions of the word
significant and I guess from your perspective is this a five year replacement vehicle, is
this a ten year, is it a 20 year, is it a three year? What -- when you're talking about
significant I think it's important for Council to have a good understanding as to what you
mean by that.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, it would be at least ten years, because, then, we can
include it in the impact fees in the future, but since this is a new vehicle of this type we
don't know. What I would guess somewhere between ten and 20 years. I guess I can
get that far out, because I won't be here for you to hold it against me. Ten years minimally,
but it could be longer and the idea it's behind is -- is that these vehicles are expensive,
they are customized for us and so it's not something you want -- it's kind of like a fire
truck, it's not something you want to replace until you absolutely need to replace it.
De Weerd: And I think that's what our Police Department talked about was can this be
delayed another year? Well, yeah, maybe. But when you need it you need it. Do you
want to have it or wish you had.
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Lavey: Madam Mayor, I would also like to point out, too, is we did look at other funding
sources. I mean this is not something we want to put on the backs of our citizens , our
taxpayers. We did look at other funding sources trying to come up with this vehicle ,
because we do believe it's something that's needed and it's needed today. We weren't
successful in that. We believe that it's a great benefit to our community and to our citizens.
They are the ones that's going to benefit from it the most when we are trying to come
rescue them when we face the types of calls that we are facing today and -- and also it
doesn't look like a SWAT or military vehicle. It blends in quite well that we really
appreciate.
Palmer: Isn't it like a crime van?
Lavey: Prime.
De Weerd: Prime.
Lavey: Amazon would -- Amazon would probably sue us and they got more money than
we do, so I don't think we want to do that. We could do Prime deliveries on the side with
it I guess, if you want to fund another position and we will make some money and pay for
itself, but -- you know, all joking aside, we can make it look however we want to make it
look. We can -- that's exactly how it's -- it's displayed and we can make it whatever color
or whatever --
Milam: Purple.
Lavey: Fuchsia. I heard fuchsia back there from the -- from the group, too, so --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate this extra explanation. This was a budget request I had initially
been fairly opposed to, because of my concern about the perception in our community
about a SWAT style van. Despite your -- I think the narrative saying the best intentions,
a quick Google search doesn't pull up anything near what -- obviously, as Council recalls,
I wasn't here for our first meeting and watch ed the benefit of YouTube and didn't have the
opportunity to see that image. So, I'm supportive of it at this point. If it's something the
department needs, I think it looks appropriate for our community. I'm always very leery
of this militarization creep in law enforcement across our country. Our city has done a
really good job of resisting that and to the chief's point about trusting the Council of today,
but always being cautious about a future council, I trust our department and our leadership
and our -- everyone in our department today, but it's not thinking about how our community
is going to look 20, 30 years from now. So, I'm supportive of it at this point.
Milam: Chief, you could fund it by selling advertising on the side.
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Cavener: No. We are not doing that. Can afford it. We can pay for -- it's expensive.
De Weerd: Any other questions for our police?
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Chief, I do have another question about the software.
Because this vendor creates a whole host of software tools that are used by local state
and federal law enforcement agencies, I want to get a better understanding about what
this tool is and how we will be using it. Candidly, I have got some concerns --
Lavey: Right.
Cavener: -- and I would love to get some better understanding before I support it.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, this software does not extract anything at it
anywhere. It only operates on what you put into it. So, it's data in, data out. What it does
is it saves hundreds of staff time hours of detectives trying to decipher the information
that we have collected through a legal means of a search warrant or through a subpoena
or information that people have given to us. So, we have obtained that information, it's in
a convoluted manner, we can download that into this program that actually -- absolutely
will shift it around and make sense of what it means in a very short period of time , instead
of the hundreds of hours a detective would take going line by item by item.
Cavener: For Council's benefit, I spent a little bit of time researching this software tool
and I think it's important -- there has been some really amazing successes. I think law
enforcement in Pasadena caught Scott Peterson by using -- I think a similar software tool
after he murdered his wife. I think that's really really beneficial . My -- my somewhat
apprehension about this is that -- as I understand it, I think this tool that we are looking at
can also create profiles of our citizens, whether they are involved in a criminal
investigation or not. For instance, if I have a family member that is buying or selling drugs
and we are Facebook friends, that it's possible that I could have a profile created for me
by law enforcement through this software tool and I guess for me, chief, my -- my biggest
concern -- I want to make sure that you guys have every legal tool necessary to catch
every bad guy as possible. What I don't want to have is the privacy and the liberty of law
abiding citizens be compromised in order for us to get there. Does that make sense?
Lavey: It -- Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, it absolutely makes sense and you're
speaking the same thing that we want to speak. The one thing -- no, I don't know if that
software does that, so that's -- that's new to me. But there is nothing that prevents us
from doing that today regardless of whether we have that software or not. So, if that's the
only hang up, then, we probably shouldn't rely on just that, because you can create any
sort of -- if that's what we were into we can profile anybody we wanted to do today with
whatever we have in our hands or whatever we Googled or whatever, so -- but I don't
know if this software does that are not, so you might know more than I do on that.
Cavener: And, chief, I think it's more important for Council to be aware --
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Lavey: Yeah.
Cavener: -- that this -- this is somewhat of a -- of a brave new world that law enforcement
is headed down that has I think -- we talked a lot about kind of philosophical beliefs and
conversations and this opens the door a little bit to add to a place that I think will be much
larger conversations that future councils will be faced with. I just think it's important that
if this is the path we head down that we go down eyes wide open.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I will tell you that with the command staff
that you have here -- can't speak for the future, but we don't push the envelope and we
don't take risks like that. There has been a lot of -- of stories that you have seen in the
press where law enforcement has taken risks and kind of stepped over the line or right
on the line and we don't do that, because that creates bad case precedent out there and
so we submit this with every good intention, but, unfortunately, I can't look in that crystal
ball and speak for the future law enforcement, but I can guarantee you with the law
enforcement we currently have today that's not the intended purposes of this software.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. And I think we are -- we are saying the same thing. I don't
have any concerns about our current -- but we talked a little while ago about the
culture --
Lavey: Yes.
Cavener: -- of our department and our citizens -- the nervousness comes -- and I don't
want to do anything to jeopardize that and so it's not about the current team today, but
that conversation that the Council has 30 years from now about what are -- how did --
how did we get here. Some of these things happen -- again, well intended little steps at
a time.
Milam: Please don't profile me based on my Facebook friends.
Lavey: You're such an open book it's easy to do, though.
De Weerd: Any other questions for the chief or his team?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: This is not a budget question, it's a -- well, it's in the CFP, so it's more probably a
Todd question. It may or may not be an error. On page 17 in the police, year 2021 we
have got two different line items. Police officer six FTE and police officers three. And
that's the only year that -- that there is --
Lavey: I can answer that question. That's the six police officers that were originally
requested that weren't funded that were pushed into '21.
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Milam: So, a line item got added --
Lavey: Ye ah.
Milam: And if the three was already there and, then, you added --
Lavey: Three was already there for 2021. There were six additional for 2020. Since we
didn't fund them in the budget we pushed them to 2020.
Milam: That makes sense. I'm like --
Lavey: See, Todd, I can even answer some of your questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else? I thought maybe I would have -- before we move into
the parking lot, talk compensation and benefits just prior to the presentation you will get
next week, kind of the groupings of what -- what we are looking to fund.
Ritchie: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of Council. So, the Mayor and I chatted
and I wanted to come back and give you some additional information before we got into
the parking lot items in regards to benefit recommendations that the compensation
committee has been vetting out and will be a part of our proposal that we will be making
to you in our formal presentation the 16th. So, I mentioned to you earlier that we had four
benefit enhancement recommendations that we were going to bring forward, so I would
like to talk about those for you today and answer any questions that you have. So , first
of all, let me say that the recommendations that we are putting forward to you today are
a direct result from the benefit valuation that the consultant Gallagher that we hired this
past -- this past year to provide to us. Some of the information in that result report are
things that the city is already actively doing. The things that we vetted are things to help
make our benefit package more competitive. One of the things that either myself or
Christena has done during the course of the last budget year and through conversations
this year we will share with you based on conversations that we are having with
recruitment efforts, job offers, what's out there trending is that we were getting a lot more
questions around our benefits and taking a step back and taking a look at -- it had been
a while since we had actually reviewed our benefit package. The result of that is that our
benefit package is average in a nutshell. So, we took a look -- we propose to you to
strengthen the competitiveness of our benefit package as we move forward and the four
recommendations we are going to formally provide to you -- the first one would be to offer
an employee match to a PERSI choice account at a hundred percent up to two percent
of an employee's salary. The estimated costs, working with the Finance team for that,
would be about 207,516.
Cavener: One more time. Sorry.
Ritchie: That's okay. 207,562 dollars.
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Milam: Crystal, what is that based off of, assuming -- I mean we estimate have it done,
you have to take -- make assumptions of how many people will participate and how -- to
what extent.
Ritchie: So, I'm going to defer to Todd a little bit. We have a current utilization of 30
percent of our employees participate in a PERSI 401(k) choice. So, if you assume that
those 30 percent would also participate in this program, plus a forecasted extra
percentage, we are talking roughly that amount of money.
Lavoie: This kind of goes to what the Mayor was going about not getting too far into the
details with you guys. Rough estimates -- we have a -- more work to do. So, again, I
think the 720 was a -- these are all rough numbers that we have given you. Our best
estimates at the moment. We still have some fine tuning to do. We think that's our ceiling.
So, to ask the question how do we get there, I love where you're going and that's the time
we need, but I think we can give you -- I think -- if we just give you the conceptual ideas
that we are promoting to you, just know that the values aren't going to be right where we
are, because we still need to edit and -- edit the data and review the data, because what
portion of our staff are using the compensation investment plan of -- so, that's what we
still need to fine tune.
Milam: Well -- and I just wasn't sure if you had talked to -- you know, did some research
on what is average in companies that do offer the match or other cities --
Lavoie: Good question.
Milam: -- for the exact mathematics --
Ritchie: We did.
Milam: -- solution formula, mainly just kind of a general idea of what -- what kind of --
De Weerd: Which is why it's taken so long is because HR has been trying to get that
data, as well as finance utilization rates as they currently stand and those --
Milam: But with a match --
De Weerd: -- they are trying to bring back next week.
Ritchie: Next week. Yeah.
Milam: Next week.
Ritchie: Absolutely.
Milam: Madam Mayor, Crystal. I hadn't intended to ask any questions. I appreciate this
information is now being shared with us. In an effort to streamline our process, if Council
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does have questions on this -- don't want to, obviously, catch you off guard, when this is
presented, do you want us to kind of follow the protocol like we do with the budget and
send collectively, if Council Members have questions today, to you or to Crystal and that
could all be addressed at the presentation on the 16th?
Ritchie: That sounds great and I will vet them out with the committee.
Cavener: Great.
Ritchie: Great. So, I will keep it very high level, then, with the other -- other benefits that
we will be coming forward with a recommendation. The second would be to offer a
vacation rollover program to our employees one time per year, with a maximum of 40
hours that they could roll over into a State 457 or 401(k) choice program.
Palmer: Did you say 40 hours?
Ritchie: Uh-huh. Up to 40 hours.
De Weerd: And that is less than what we offer to the fire union, but we felt it was
comparable to what other cities were doing and the committee felt comfortable with that.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: At least it brings us more to par to what all employees get.
Milam: Well, I like that it's a rollover and not a buy out.
Ritchie: Another benefit -- or recommendation that we will be bringing forward formally
would be to increase our tuition reimbursement program. Currently today we are at 2,000
dollars for fiscal year and the recommendation to get us into a competitive arena with our
benefit package would be to move that to 2,600 dollars.
Cavener: Sorry. The first one you shared, the kind of estimated cost was, and so -- for
the vacation rollover. Again, I'm just trying to track the numbers, that's all.
Ritchie: I know. So, like Todd said, extremely --
Cavener: Yes.
Ritchie: -- of that, because I don't think we were prepared to share that piece of it with
you today and I -- I kind of dove into that. So, the tuition reimbursement is about 4,327
dollars on estimate.
Cavener: Okay.
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Ritchie: -- based on current utilization and projections. Vacation rollover is about 234,000
-- or, excuse me, 233,334. An estimate. And we will be coming forward to you with other
benefit enhancements that don't have a financial impact, so I am sharing the ones today
that have a proposed financial impact and those are the ones directly related to the benefit
valuation and the benefit recommendations. The other piece of this that we still need to
finalize next week when we meet as the compensation committee is the actual
compensation pay program recommendations. So, this is a portion of that 720,000,
knowing that we will be sharing additional information with all of you next week regarding
the actual compensation program changes that we will bring forward for recommendation
and that will cover the additional difference between 445,000 to 720.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: With the --
Ritchie: I just -- the quick math was --
De Weerd: Oh.
Ritchie: -- the vacation rollovers was about 445.
De Weerd: Yes.
Ritchie: Okay. Quick math.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Did you say there were four -- is the other one --
Ritchie: The other ones don't have a financial impact, so I didn't know if this was -- I'm
happy to share it with you. We would be looking to come forward with a recommendation
to provide employees a two week pay paternal-maternal medical leave for the birth or
adoption of an addition to their family, but that one has no financial cost to the budget for
us to request and implement that as well. And, then, we will be sharing some of the other
things that the survey recommended that the city is already in progress of working on.
Cavener: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Shall we take a ten minute break and, then, we will go into the parking
lot.
(Recess: 2:48 p.m. to 3:07 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. We will go ahead and resume.
Fields: Okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council. On our break we had discovered a
minor adjustment to our Fire Department personnel budget. I reduced that budget by
7,000 dollars due to the adjustment, so I just want to bring that into your guys' plate. A
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couple other items before we get into the parking lot. There were two things that Finance
Department was going to circle back with you guys on. The first one is the past history
of Council travel. What we found in the past three years where there are a couple of
Council Members who traveled in fiscal year 2019 and -- do you guys need to know
the --
De Weerd: No.
Fields: Okay. And two Council Members traveling fiscal year 2017. The other item that
we were going to discuss was there was a question from Council about budget remaining
in the MYAC NLC trip. The total cost remaining budget was 3,717 dollars. So, were there
any other items -- outstanding items that we need to research on? Those were the only
two I notated.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I didn't know that we were -- we were back, so I guess I missed
what you were saying. I'm sorry, Jenny. I apologize to Council.
Fields: Okay. Should I start from the beginning? Okay. I will start from the beginning.
We had a minor adjustment to our Fire Department personnel budget. We adjusted it
down by 7,000 dollars. There were a couple of outstanding items that I have taken note
that we were going to circle back with Council Members on. The first one was the Council
Member traveling. So, there were two individuals -- two Council Members traveled in
fiscal year '19 and two Council Members traveled in fiscal year 2017. The other item was
budget remaining for the MYAC NLC DC trip. The question was what is the budget
remaining. The amount is 3,700 dollars. With that shall we move into our parking lot?
Okay. First one I have notated from the top was the compensation proposal of 720 -- 700
-- 720,224 dollars. Were there any discussion on this? Good to include? The next item
that I have highlighted in the parking lot is the streetlights. There were a couple questions
on possibly adding to this budget proposal.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Yeah. After the coins are made that it would be -- I don't know if fairly easy is
the right word, but to double the portion that's spent on replacing or upgrading or whoever
-- whatever the terminology is -- the old style to the LED versions, especially given that it
will only take a few years for that expense to pay for itself before the end of my not-to-
happen second term. This cost that I'm trying to make happen will pay for itself and go
on as a net benefit to the city moneywise. So, at least doubling it.
De Weerd: Dale, did you look and see if that was a possibility?
Bolthouse: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, we did do a little bit further digging. So,
I think the best next money would be spent, if you wanted to add funding, would be to
increase the LED -- the high pressure sodium to LED conversion. That -- what we would
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recommend is add another 50,000 dollars. It can be fairly easily managed, you don't have
a lot of outside design fees, those kinds of things and it's fairly quick. Just as an order of
reference, it's about 350 dollars per head when we are making that exchange, but we
have got -- we have got about 300 -- close to -- close to 300 lights that we could do that
are between a hundred and 250 watt high pressure sodium that could be accomplished.
So, recommendation one would be to add that to the LED conversion streetlights. The
second part of that would be new streetlights and as Warren indicated, I think we are
probably reaching our capacity to internally design and manage that and what's likely to
happen, based on this effort, is that we would have to consume quite a bit of our budget
just on outside design and -- and consultant fees and so I would not recommend adding
any more to that until such time that we can free up some of Al's time, which is a -- which
is a likely proposition considering that as we look forward, the -- the cost of managing the
Dig Line portion of that requirement now to mark the power line runs to street lights , I
think is going to be a likely candidate to bring that internal. We would be back probably
requesting an FTE and included as part of our overall locating group, which we currently
have two, but I think we are looking at six figures annually to try to accomplish that through
an outside contractor and it's consuming a lot of Al's time in trying to manage that. So,
long story short, we get that cleaned up, Al will have more time for streetlight. I think that
would be the time to bring back a request for incremental streetlight dollars if the Council
has an appetite at that point in time.
De Weerd: Any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Milam: So, based on your just kind of rough estimates that it should be about 105,000
dollars to cover the lights that we have that could be changed out. So, we started out --
instead of 100,000 it would be 105,000 and get them all done.
Bolthouse: No.
Milam: No?
Bolthouse: What we have in the current budget is 50,000 for LED replacement.
Milam: Right.
Bolthouse: Fifty thousand dollars for new lights and we could recommend up to another
50,000 dollars of LED replacement. So, you would be looking at a total budget of 150,000
dollars --
Milam: Sorry. I'm talking about that -- just right -- and we are just talking about the LED
replacement right now. We weren't -- I think -- I'm pretty sure -- instead of raising it to a
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hundred, raise it to 105. Based on the numbers you gave and the cost per, it should kind
of -- I know -- but, then, it should be able to take care of all of them.
Bolthouse: Yeah.
De Weerd: Even more.
Bolthouse: No. I know. I guess I made the mistake of kind of rounding. So , we have
155 200 watters and I saw a number here of 133 additional lights. So, I'm not quite at
200. I rounded up by a handful, so --
Milam: So, a hundred thousand --
Bolthouse: A hundred thousand. Yeah.
Milam: -- would take care of most of it. Okay.
Bolthouse: Yeah. I move that we exchange the LED conversion budget to 100 ,000
dollars.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Now there is no doubt my net contribution to today's discussion will result in an
increase to the budget. Historical -- another historical moment here. Just to offset that a
touch, Cameron had mentioned to me that the -- the per diem numbers were off a little
bit. So, there is actually another few hundred dollars in savings there.
Fields: The next parking lot item is under clerks. Their FTE request for the administrative
assistant. Is there any further dialogue or discussion with this position?
De Weerd: Was there additional discussion for this? Additional information needed? And
do we want to have a motion?
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Milam: Madam Mayor. I will be brief. I think that my reading of the tea leaves shows that
Council supports this position, so I don't think it's worthy of continuing any more
discussion about pulling it at this particular point in time.
De Weerd: That's great.
Cavener: I guess, Madam Mayor, maybe just -- sorry. One -- one anecdote. As we had
the conversation about cost recovery related to parks, you know, this is a position when I
was the liaison was first kind of explained to me would be covered by the revenue that
we were going to generate from the scooter program and that changed and much of the
-- I think demand of the position had changed somewhat, so I guess this would be another
position that I would like involved in the cost recovery discussion about how much our
taxpayers are paying for this position versus their -- their job duties that are assigned.
Make sure there is an appropriate balance.
De Weerd: Those are two good departments to -- to start that cost recovery analysis with.
Lavoie: We will make note of that and keep you guys informed how it's going.
Fields: Okay. The last parking lot item that I have is under Council and we were going to
discuss about the governmental accountability officer position.
De Weerd: Yes. The Council originally had an amount set aside of 20,000 for professional
services. What was it?
Lavoie: I will look it up.
De Weerd: And in talking with our CFO, the preferred route was to -- as Council found
items that needed a third-party consultant and someone that was more specialized in a
specific topic to come through a budget amendment process so it was transparent and
what it was that we wanted evaluated and -- and it was specific to a dollar amount.
Fields: It was 15,000 dollars.
De Weerd: Fifteen thousand. So, that was the approach and so we withdrew that budget
amount requested.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, do we know what that 15,000 dollars was based on? Is it just
a -- we didn't know, which would make sense, we have never been down this road and
we just wanted to pick a number that we thought would encomp ass what the cost would
be should the Council want to be able to do that?
De Weerd: Yeah.
Cavener: Okay. Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I support returning that back into the budget. I think that -- specifically because
of transparency we should include that as something in our budget that we are going to
publish to the public. To me I think not only is it a resource that the Council will have at
their disposal should it arise, it also reminds the public that all levels of government in this
building are committed to accountability at all levels. So , I think it's appropriate to include
in the budget. It will also allow Council to know what type of a budget we have to work
with should an issue or concern or an area of diving deeper with the scope of work he
presented.
De Weerd: Well -- and certainly those contracts would come in front of Council as -- as
the need came up. Okay. So, we will add that back in. Oh, do we need a motion?
Cavener: It's your meeting.
De Weerd: What?
Cavener: It's your meeting, would you like us to make a motion?
De Weerd: Ye s.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move that we return the 15,000 dollar budget allocation for a government
accountability officer or contractor to the City Council budget.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
absent.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: It's to be consistent with the streetlights. Okay. Jenny. You have the change
that comes from Palmer noted in the building department.
Fields: I do not.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, we have not delivered it up to her on that one yet.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Lavoie: Yeah. It's -- I think it was like 500 bucks. Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further, Jenny?
Fields: With that I think we should -- so, I have added the 15,000 dollars for -- in City
Council's department. We should look at the bottom number to see where we need to be
at, because I don't have anymore parking lot items. So, right now we are at 419,000
dollars that we still need in additional revenue to cover, with all the changes -- other than
the 500. Let me adjust that really quick.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Does that include any changes with the police numbers?
Fields: No, it does not.
Little Roberts: Do we need to make a motion regarding that if we -- or have more
discussion?
De Weerd: If you -- if Council would like to consider adding to the budget, yes.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I move that we add three additional officers and two cars.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I do, based on the CFP for next year, the number that is in the book for that
expense is different than the number that was given to us earlier. So , according to this
the total number is -- maybe that's only -- maybe it's only one car, maybe that's the -- it
doesn't say. But 369,000. Is that just one car? All right. As I'm reading that out loud I
realized that might be why the number is less, 369,000. The 74,000 dollars for one car.
I guess that's probably more than a car, but -- all right. Never mind.
De Weerd: Any other discussion?
Borton: See how it impacts.
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Milam: It's three percent, people. Oh, wait. Are we doing 11 or 14? Eleven.
Lavoie: Jenny, have you used fund balance for the VRT?
Fields: I did.
Lavoie: Okay. So, it's in there. Thank you.
Fields: Now the fund balance that we are using is 505. It was 207.
Lavoie: So, right now as it stands we are about 871 in the hole.
Fields: Uh-huh.
Lavoie: So, we need to find 871,000 more dollars to balance this budget. We do have a
proposal. We could use some fund balance dollars to pay for the police rescue vehicle .
We have a fund called the Public Safety Fund. It's supposed to be utilized for public
safety vehicles. This sounds like it fits that. If you wish to -- again, I need your kind of
direction, but we could utilize 133,680 dollar of fund balance, so that would reduce your
gap if you guys want to. Again, we have about 1.7 million in the account. Again, we are
saving it for future fire truck needs that Mark and I have been work ing on over the next
three or four years. But, again, 133 -- you know, we could probably live with that, but not
too much more or we start impacting future fire truck replacements.
De Weerd: And I think also that it is -- this, then, qualifies under the CIP and potential
impact fee down the road.
Lavoie: Going forward this will be an impact fee eligible item, yes.
Milam: Do it.
Lavoie: All right. We will utilize 133,680 dollars from our Public Safety Fund. Again, that
is why we have these funds, guys. We have put money into this to tap into for these
discussions. So, this is exactly why we have these fund balance uses. So, with that that
sits us at about 737,000 still remaining to fund to make this a balanced budget for us to
come back to you on July 23rd. Again, we have discussed with you we propose to use
the three percent allowable to fill the gap, to fill the void. If you -- we have up to one
million dollars. It's a little over one million, but if you choose one million it's how much
money we could tap into using the state allowable law of property tax increases.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Given that this would have no negative effect on the arts , if we were to adjust
the ordinance to allow us to be able to reduce from the 50,000 elsewhere -- that doesn't
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solve our problem, but it gets 18,000 dollars closer, still spending 50,000 dollars -- well,
80 something thousand dollars on the arts , but -- I have 1.2 million in front of me, but 99
percent of it none of you want to hear, but there is an -- you know, three and a half inches
closer.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess maybe, then, a question for Council. There were -- there were
numerous items that we went through earlier that I think I said let's remove. I think almost
all of those were supported to stay within the budget. I guess a question would be in light
of this number is there anything on there that anyone wants to reconsider and if the
answer is no, then, that answers that part of the puzzle. If we are not going to reduce
costs, then, we only have one other option that present us -- presents itself. So, I guess
I would -- the items that I supported pulling for a year I still believe for the most part are
worthy of being held for a year, but if any of you have since changed your mind in light of
this number, now would be the opportune time for us to discuss that. If not --
Borton: I don't remember what your -- Madam Mayor. I don't remember what your list is.
Cavener: What?
Borton: I don't remember what your list is, other than the clerk's admin assistant.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I didn't come with a list. I think -- but I went through each budget
piece that if it warranted it or not, but there were items such as -- Mr. Palmer talked about
reduction in the public art requests. That is a 10,000 dollar sponsorship. Again, the clerk's
office position.
Milam: Public Works.
Cavener: That would come from the Enterprise Fund. So, I mean -- I -- Madam Mayor,
for the benefit of Council, in light of our conversation about Public Works and vehicle
replacement, I chose not to engage in that in the other departments where I thought it
was warranted. It didn't seem worthy of our time. So, I think there is lots of opportunities
where if we are looking to reduce costs that we can find some savings , I just don't want
to repeat what we did this morning.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And now that today, whether the police or the -- the benefits
situation, we are now into this scenario of anything in the budget for it to stay in there
means a tax increase. So, if there is anything in here that isn't worthy of a tax increase
ask yourself that as well. Would I choose increased taxes to keep this in here or not, take
it out.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I'm going to be blunt. I f und it with a tax increase. I think about this question
every time we have got an application in front of us and we grow our city at a rate that our
resources might otherwise be constrained with. So, every time we approve a large land
use application we are hiring clerks and police and firefighters and I have said this before
and said it again, we have already made these decisions. They are otherwise unfunded
mandates. Unless you want to compromise our level of service, which has made our city
successful, which I do not want to do, we have committed to this. The police is a great
example. Nobody blinks an eye at that. There is one reason why we needed these
additional officers quicker, because we are growing quicker and we knew that six months
ago. So, we shouldn't -- I'm not reluctant at all to utilize the one revenue source that's
available to maintain our level of service and take care of our employees. So, for the --
particularly for the purposes of today, I balance it with the available revenue that the
legislature has provided for us, in lieu of cutting it and impacting our level of service. I
think those decisions have already been made.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think it's an important distinction -- we are not cutting services, we are just
choosing not to fund budget requests. I mean there is a big difference between that. We
are not in a position where we are saying we can't continue to fund our general obligation
-- like we are saying is we are choosing not to fund some requests -- much like other
requests that came through the department process were chosen not to be funded for a
variety of reasons. So, it's not I guess the case I think of us cutting something -- I know
that term gets used a lot. We are choosing what we are -- what we think is prudent to
fund in this year's budget or not. I think that was prudent to fund more officers than was
requested. I think that -- that's -- that's the appropriate decision. But I don't think that to
imply that choosing not to fund something is cutting, because we are not reducing our
already current level of service.
Borton: Madam Mayor. I don't know if that's true in every case. That's where the rubber
meets the road.
Cavener: Sure.
Borton: And the clerk's office is a great example and it's -- it's -- it's difficult to articulate a
specific matrix level of service in the clerk's office, but we understand the method and
manner in which the work is done there, can't slow down, the quality can't decrease, the
vetting that got to the recommendation for a new administrative assistant I thought is
consistent with the city's strategic plan and the purposes that it promotes and public safety
does the same thing. So, we are assuming that these requests are based upon
maintaining those levels of service. I'm not talking about a 10,000 dollar sponsorship. It's
everything else, so --
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Cavener: Madam Mayor. I think to that point the -- the shared justification or
rationalization about that specific position has changed a lot over this budget process
from -- it was initially presented because there were new programming to, then, it was to
maintain current need. Both can be true, but what we are having is -- we are wrestling
with can -- can we afford it by raising taxes. The answer could be yes. The answer could
be no. I mean that's up to each of us to demonstrate and I guess to me that is different
that we are not -- we are not saying in order to balance the budget we are cutting a
position in the clerk's office or we are removing law enforcement officers from the streets.
We are, if anything, increasing that amount. Maybe not at the amount that some
departments or individuals would like, but to me I think that's a much different distinction.
We are not increasing to the same level as being something that is a decrease.
Borton: I understand.
De Weerd: But I --
Cavener: Appreciate the conversation, though. I think it --
De Weerd: I think Joe's point and Council does have an impact on what staffing we have,
whether it was the e-scooter aspect, it added -- it didn't have quite the impact that was
once anticipated, but, then, we added a booting ordinance and background checks and
-- and those kind of things. So, you trade one for another and, yeah, the other was --
didn't have the same impact, but every decision has an impact on staffing.
Cavener: Agreed.
De Weerd: Same with adding three new officers. What is the tipping point for HR and
their staffing needs? Because they participate in every one of the interviews. So , it's --
for every decision made it does have an impact in maintaining a level of service that our
citizens have come to expect and as we talked about with the city clerk's position, we
have a reputation of maintaining that small town feel by a more personable service and if
we want to maintain that we have to have appropriate staffing to do so and I think the
clerk's office does a really good job in doing that and they need the additional resources.
I know the clerk's office wouldn't be recommending it if they didn't.
Borton: Madam Mayor. And I used that as an example. Not to pick on the clerks, but
just an example of the difficult decisions. That's how I feel. That's how I think we have to
fill the gap. A per diem or a cell phone bill here or there does not move the needle relative
to the size of costs that we have to maintain this level of service. My perspective.
Cavener: Appreciate again -- Madam Mayor. Council Member Borton teaches me a lot
and I appreciate the healthy collaborative discussion , even when we disagree. I guess I
would just also add another was -- I had a conversation earlier about not supporting the
position in the Parks Department until we can get a cost recovery model put together on
that. That would eliminate some additional costs as well. I know we didn't take a formal
action I don't think on that particular one. Again, I don't know if this is even worthy of our
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time, if this is something that Council supports. Council Member Borton was very
articulate and said he supports using the three percent mechanism to balance the budget.
If that's the will of this body, then, let's -- let's take action and let our directors get on with
their day.
Milam: Two point two five'ish.
Fields: Two point two one.
Milam: Two point two what?
Fields: Two point two one is what --
Milam: I was one percent --
Cavener: Good job.
De Weerd: Okay.
Fields: To balance our budget. So, right now we are needing 737,000 and I have
calculated is we need 2.21 percent of the allowable three percent.
De Weerd: Okay. So, Council, at this point are we good where we are at and for further
discussion next week as we bring detailed information on the compensation and benefits
plan?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Am I the only one who has any desire to discuss the bus? It's an enormous
expense. It looks like it. We are good.
Milam: Well -- and I think with the bus -- I mean there is still some unknowns and that's
a -- that's a not to exceed number, because we are -- we are looking for grants for the
bus and we are looking for partnerships from the community that are going to help fund
this. So, I really hope we don't have to spend that much. I don't like the way that this --
we are having to approve this without having more information on those numbers, but --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: But those -- those numbers will come back to you once VRT knows about the
grants and that sort of thing. So, Council at that time can choose not to afford that. I think
that to leave it to show support of -- that the city needs to have more of a commitment to
public transportation and this is kind of the first step --
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Milam: Right.
De Weerd: -- and how it will roll forward as you approve the direction we go.
Milam: Yeah. So, it's in the budget, but it's not approved.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Isn't the number that's in there assuming all of the grants and everything that
would still be our portion or is it that's the number to operate it and, then, it comes off as
those grants --
De Weerd: That -- that's the required match as I understand it for the capital piece and
the operation piece is an ongoing.
Milam: Partial year of operations I think and -- and the capital. But they are going to try
to offset some of the operations with -- with partnerships with the businesses that it's
going to provide services. So, if it's stopping at, you know, such and such location, they
are going to try to get some community partners to help offset the operations portion of it.
So, hopefully, less.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? When -- and I know it's not the same thing, but when the -- the
fun bus was going to Roaring Springs I believe -- whenever else it went. Did any of those
businesses contribute when those discussions happened? No. So, that -- that's not going
to happen, just reality, because they don't bring people. I mean even when it was free it
didn't bring enough people to justify it. There were I think 650 people that wrote the thing
and it was free. It cost us 65,000 dollars. This will not be free, it won't bring the people
to the businesses --
Milam: We are talking about employees. We are talking to some major employers
hopefully that might be willing to help get their employees to work. That was the plan
anyway.
Palmer: Yeah. I mean it won't happen. So, that 419 is going to be spent, so -- if we were
to assume 419 is going to be spent is there anybody else who would say if that's what's
actually going to happen I'm less -- and that not being the case we can move on.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other topic with Council? So, at this point I think the direction on
if -- if this is what you want to move forward to with the discussion to commence as well
next week.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: Jenny, can you put it on the page that shows the merit and -- okay. I wasn't sure
if it was the merit that was 2.5, not the market adjustment, and that's -- that's the way I
look at this. That's our cost of living, which is 50 percent of the cost of living. This is a
cost of living. It almost always matches somehow. I guess one -- another way to look at
it. I know this is a -- sorry. So, you know, being an HR liaison in previous years, I recall
that the merit is really best at three percent and I know that this is your recommendation
and I'm just wondering why this would be better t han say one and a half percent market
and three percent credit in your -- the three percent gives you more room to work with
within each category.
Ritchie: Anything -- Council Member Milam, anything less than two percent doesn't drive
a distinction between performance ratings and performance outcomes. Anything at less
than two percent, then, industry wide has suggested that you just do a flat across the
board increase. We take a lot of time spent analyzing what the stat e -- what the state of
Idaho is doing, other municipalities across the state. This year we stretched and looked
at the private sector in some areas and the average was between two and two and a half
percent for a merit point increase for organizations that do offer a merit program. The
market adjustment is a point in time recommendation that is made around -- in preparation
of the budget process around March and April and you need to look year over year at the
-- the employer cost index and what changes. So, when you look at that two percent it
-- at that point in time in March and April it was about two -- two to three percent. So, if
you take a look at that two percent that would go across the board to all of the employees
and your merit pool two and a half percent giving enough delineation between
performance ratings. It does provide enough opportunity for us to maintain competitive
wages against the changes in the economy and the cost of services and goods. Anything
less than two percent on a merit proposal you really would be looking at four percent
across the board.
Milam: Two and a half was enough to --
Ritchie: But I appreciate the question.
Lavoie: Any other questions for the 2020 budget as we have discussed and have finalized
today? If there is none, Jenny will take the information that she's gathered from you today
and apply all the changes accordingly and, then, on the 23rd we will be standing in front
of you with your 2020 tentative budget. At that time -- and as Joe has mentioned, that's
where we put the ceiling of the budget proposal. Later on in August when we have your
public hearing you can reduce it if discussions are had. So, again, Jenny will take the
data that you have, we will put together our final budget amount to propose to you on the
23rd of July. Again, if there is anything that you need from us, please, please, please
reach out to us. I don't think I have any outstanding items. Jenny, do you have any items?
Fields: I do not.
Lavoie: Mayor, any items? Well, with that I will extend a huge thank you to your guys '
time for making the second workshop. Appreciate the dialogue and all the directors and
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda July 23, 2019 – Page 100 of 519
Meridian City Council Budget Workshop
July 8, 2019
Page 98 of 98
staff who attended today. I know it's a long day, but again, great dialogue, great questions.
Every year we are going to schedule a meeting with each of -- each of you as our post -
budget discussions and we look forward to the feedback and any potential changes.
Every year we change a little bit. Again, we appreciate the input and the feedback that
you give us. But, again, I just want to say thank you to everybody. Thank you for putting
the budget together, Jenny and Brad. Again, appreciate everybody -- staff's time and
will hand it back to the Mayor. But, again, I think at this point Finance is good where we
need to be.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. And thank you to our team. I know Finance and all the
departments, the work that goes into this is crazy, but we appreciate you and your staffs
and all you do. So, with that, if there is nothing further from Council, I would entertain a
motion to adjourn.
Borton: Move to adjourn.
Cavener: Second.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 3:51 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
23/Iq
M E WEERD DATE APPROVED