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Goehner, Robert & Roxanne . . CITY OF MERIDIAN FENCE COMMITTEE MEETING JULY 8,1996 AGENDA FENCE COMMITTE MEMBERS: Mr. Gary Smith, P.E., City Engineer, Chairman Mr. Charlie Rountree, City Council Member Mr. Bill Gordon, Chief of Police Mr. Malcolm MacCoy, Planning & Zoning Commissioner ITEMS FOR REVIEW 4:30 P.M. - Robert & Roxanne - 2560 S. Mr. Tink Place - request to redUee the, required setback to less than 20 feet. 4:45 P.M. - Pat & Terri Schomburg - 981 E. Hawk Street - request to reduce setbacrfc on side of house from 20 feet to 13 feet. . ~~, IF ¡'. ..~- f ~ ~..Jv; ~ i:~ ~~ Wt? . ~r 1/40/O¡r,. /Hh ¡ ~ $--Ivy J ~ k. -þv- : k,!f. ;'Lf;,P'æt" ~ . ~-r- interoffice MEMORANDUM to: Mayor & Council File Gary D. Smith, PE #ê1 ~ fenœVariance - Mr.& Mrs. Goehner cc: from: re: date: July 9, 1996 On July 8, 1996, your Fence Variance Committee met in City Hall to consider the request of this prop~y owner to locate a 6 foot fence in the side street setback area of their lot in Los Alamitos Subd. A sketch, as provided by the property owner, is attached for your information. Mer much discussion the Committee voted in dead- lock on the property owners request. This issue is now being brought before you for a decision. The fence has been constructed and is located approximately 4 feet from the back edge of sidewalk. The owner did obtain a fence building permit and was given a copy of the page from our ordinance showing the required location of fences with their allowed heights. The installation of the fence was not inspected by our Building Inspectors as they were not called for inspection as noted in bold type on the permit. A copy of building permit "Inspections Record" is also attached for your information. Mr. & Mrs. Goehner will probably be in attendance to represent themselves in this matter. If you have any questions of me I will be in attendance at your meeting as will Councilman Rountree and Chief Bill Gordon who are two other members of the Committee. 1'..) it tJIVt' W' ~ -:or ~v'IA ~ ~ ~ 18p.- from the desk of... Gary D. Smith, PE Public Works Director OtyofMeridian 33 E.ldallo Meridian,ldaho 83M2 108-887-2211 Fax: 208-887-1297 or 208.8814813 "°' ---- . j')';Jìd 'j¡~\l .'Ö~ '-:' '; .:D.. / \ , \ / \' , Z\ I ~ I co:,;; \ ~\"'- I õ,v. I "'. I ""\ \ / . \ " I I \ \ I I \ \C \ ~ -. 3 ~ t;J ::J ~ / , :; / , / , / , / '" / , / , / '" / ,. / , g.2..í2---'--- Q,.Q J~~;.\ 0\\5.--.--'---------- ---.-~-) . . CITY OF MERIDIAN 33 E. IDAHO MERIDIAN, ID 83642 FENCE VARIANCE APPLICATION (RE: Meridian Zoning Ordinance) APPLICANT NAME: ¡z.a.8T' oIL a..A..,... 6aet04Na tL PHONE S.'~Cf88J ADDRESS: 'Z Sioltø S. Me. Ta-.JI'- P... M....., p ,..,.,;) \ %0. .~,"+'I.. æNERS NAME & ADDRESS: (If different than above) 5ArM& PROOF OF OWNERSHIP: (COPY OF DEED OR OPTION MUST BE ATI'ACEED) LEGAL DESŒIPTION OF PROPERTY: Iar# I ð BLK # z SUBDIVISION ~ oS . ¡¡,. , .... ... OS s... ~ J PRESENT USE & ZONING OF PROPERTY \2.. t.&Ioo,)"",~ SOIEMA.TIC DRAWING: ATI'ACH DRAWING SHCWING BtJIIDINGS, STREE:I'S & PROPOSED FENCE: SURROUNDING PROPERI'Y OWNERS: LIST OF THE MAILING ADDRESSES OF ALL PROPERTY æNERS (FROM AUI'HENTIC TAX RECORDS OF ADA COUNTY) WITHIN 'IWJ HUNDRED (200) FEET OF THE IDcr'ERNAL BOUNDRIES OF THE LAND BEING CONSIDERED: DESCRIPTION OF REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDn:mNCE THM' NEED 'lO BE REDUCED 'lO PERMIT THE PROPOSED FENCE: FEtJeL P808.. & '"'"' ~1 .".... "T$ . :;"" "'-.'IÞ~.T "", ~~"~~c.E. -...Jjþll&&"'.'.-...) .~,JC~P"'u""'u.-....>"'-~~ '.."""""."'. -'.'-'" .'.' ""': A'ITACH APPLICATION FEE OF $ So ,-: / ATrACH STAm>!ENT THAT FENCE IS ALIÌ:mED UNDER THE ~Cl'IVE COVENANTS OF THE SUBDIVISI<>I OR A OOPY œ TIlE """"""'" ~~,' ~ "'.- U. ' ' ~ ¿ . ,.- APPLICANTS SI ~ ~ e:: ~ . - /^ DATE RECEIVED COMMITI'EE HEARING DATE RECEIVED BY :-\ 3 ~ t;J ::J ~ [ c-: r1 .' . \J\~\ ,C- j')';Jìd )\~\l. 0" ;:) / , \ \ ~\ 1:\ \ ;~. \ "'.\ \ '~\ \ " \ \ \ '\ \ . / \ 0\ , P \ I ( / \ ,I I \ \ ~ / , / , :; / , / , / ' / / , ' / , / , / , / , / , .- , "3 ,,"o"'J..:_\~.--'--'--'------"- .--.----:i,~\\ , ,Whon ~oco"dod .aH tOI . 1I8IU!I' NOnGACIB CORP. ';' 408 8. 8!1'H 8!1'. suus 111 IOISB, IDJ\IO 83702 "ii"'" 1 ,. I . LOAR t. 209710880 I""" A>O.. Thb LIn,'.. A............., DEED OF TRUST THIS DEED OF TRUST ("S..url~'lnstmmcnl") Is modo on JANUARY 26, 1996, ROBERT P. GOEHNER AND ROXANNE J. GOEllNER, HUSBAND ANJ)WII"E The grantor 10 Thc IruOIe< io ("Borrower"), ALL lANCE TITLE & ESCROW CORP. TI,o benonçlol)' I, MERIT MORTO1IGE CORP" A IDAHO CORPORATION ("Tm'I.."), e,dSling u/ldcrlhe laws of THE STATE OF IDAHO and whoso address Is 405 S. 8TH ST. SUITE 111. BOISE, IDAHO 83702 whloh Is organized and ("Lendor"), Oorroll« "",'s Lender the principal SUIII of ONE IlUNDRED THIRTY ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED'" AND NO/l00"" ..... ...... .................................. ......... Dolla", (U,S, $131,400. 00 ),ThlodeblisevldenoedbyBorrower'snotedaledthesameda1ea.thlsSecurilylnslrumenl("NoIe"). which p""'ides for monlhly ¡m¡'ments, "'lh thelùll deht.lfuotpaideadler.duoandpa¡1lble on FEBRUARY 1. 2026, Thio Secnrity loslrumenl socnres to lender: (a) the repayment oflbe debt ev!denced by tbe Note. with ¡nteresl. nnd all renewals. "Iensions and rnodificntions oflhe Note; (b) Ihe payment ofall OII..r sums, wilb Interes~ .d..need under par.graph 7 10 protect Ihc soonrlty or 'his Security Inslrumcnt and (c) Ihe pcrfonuanoc of Borrower's covena"" and agJOOlllOnfS under IIIIs Security InSinn/lctl1 find Iho Nole, Fo, Ihls purposc. Borrollor 1rIO\'OCIIb1y granlS and eon,..,> 10 TruSl... in lrust, wiib P",VCI of sulo, tho foll""ins described property Ica1ted ¡n ADA County. Idaho: LOT 18 IN BLOCK 2 OF LOS ALAMITOS PARK SUBDIVISION NO.1, ACCORDING TO THE OFFICIAL PLAT THEREOF. FILED IN BOOK 70 OF PLATS ATPAGE(S) 7131-7132, AND AMENDED BY AFFIDAVIT RECORDED JULY 31, 1995, AS INSTRUMENT NO. 95052213, RECORDS OF ADA COUNTY, IDAHO. AP '/I: R-5330140190 whichl13Slbcaddressof 2560 S. MR, TINK PLACE. MERIDIAN Idaho 1"".,ell,l. 83642 IZI,c"",¡ ("Ptoperty Address"); Initials I #~ cf/JC}, v v 10,\110. s;"~.I',,,,;I, ."'hWl'IIL"C "NIFORJI' ",nAV"."" """'11(11>119"" I'ono '.U 9190 Am""""'" IDVÐlIED 401 IDVDEED Page lofS .-Ai" , .. . . June 9,1996 Dear Neighbors, The city of Meridian has notified us that we are required to obtain a variance due to the location of the fence on the south side of our property at 2560 S. Mr. Tink Place facing E. Time Zone. The fence is presently installed and a pennit was obtain fÌ"om the city to erect the fence, The city has requested to obtain a variance to get the names and addresses of all resides located within 200 feet of our property. After reviewing the completed variance would you kindly complete your name and address below, We are also asking for your input into and whether you have a problem with the existing fence as it stands today, We appreciate you information and input into this matter. Sincerely, Bob and Roxanne Goehner Name Address Do yOU have any problems i , ,,' Jì1£).i. 'l..f1-i ILq , with the fence as it stands L (n1J-tU- 2~ql.t(j :;ml. TrnA pL L(1J'r!-L' Comments (1í.i4.á¿¡/ of" ~'-' ~ ,;2- 'I g ~ !š '-!n1, ~ '/?L ~ ) rtgJ/...-gq,O t /lftL P c~ eZ- r' §> 'Íj,.J ~ () l'ì'2-~ .:TL~'" q.. L{i~'" ..AI\I'\ /'1~Clv["" /7 ')1 E, j; M L L ~V'\~ Dr ' 2ttU-t ðYantb¡r¿;c ~ I') JZz:i E:,~'mcf5meDv- 2' l- ~v, c';' I' r.. -r-: / Ill,¡\ (i I õ 0 /2-- I ['-1q, ZrJ"1.<..-C ~ fJ""'- YLDrlf H CJ N.«-. . . NOTICE OF HEARING NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN pursuant to 11-9-605 J. 10. of the Revised and Compiled Ordinances of the City of Meridian, that the Fence Variance Committee of the City of Meridian will hold a public hearing at the Meridian City Hall, 33 East Idaho Street, Meridian, Idaho, at the hour of 4:30 o'clock ..E...M., on Monday July 8 1996, for the purpose of reviewing and considering the Application of Robert & Roxanne Goehner for a variance from the Meridian Fence Ordinance at the property legally described as follows: Lot 18 Block 2 Los Alamitos Subdivision No 1 and known by the address 2560 S. Mr Tink Place Meridian Idaho 83642. The Applicant proposed to reduce the required setback distance to less than 20 feet. The public is welcome. Testimony, objections, and comments will be heard and considered by the Committee. A written decision of the Committee will be issued to the Applicant and any person requesting in writing a copy of the decision will be furnished one. Any aggrieved party may appeal the decision of the Committee directly to the Meridian City Council pursuant to Section 11-2-416 G. 1. DATED this ....2.llL day of June ,1996. • Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 50 ITEM #15: DISCUSSION OF ORDINANCE 1-707: ESTABLISHING COMMISSIONERS FOR CITY DEPARTMENTS: Corrie: We got a new one that Wayne handed me I think. Morrow. A minute to review and read please? Berg: Do I have one Wayne? Crookston: I believe that you do, I just made copies at City Hall tonight and 1 do have the original. If it passed you need it and if it isn't you don't. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, one consideration, I know we have some folks here that. have been here and told to be here at about 9:30 tonight for department business and are kind of pacing outside. I am wondering if they might just move them up and (inaudible). Corrie: I have no problem with that. Rountree: It is a request to consider a fence variance (End of Tape) ITEM #18: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: Corrie: Gary, on the fence variance. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I think you have in your possession a memo that I wrote concerning the applicant's request to vary from our fence ordinance. If I can just find mine. Do you have a copy of that memo? Attached to that is a copy of their plot plan that shows the location of the fence in comparison with the back of sidewalk on Time Zone Way. The fence has been constructed in that location. Crookston: Gary, I am sorry for interrupting you, what are these people's names? Smith: Mr. and Mrs. Goehner, I am sorry 1 don't have the address it is on Tink Place, 2560 S. Mr. Tink Place, that is in Los Alamitos Subdivision. I think Mr. Tink was a race horse. The fence committee met to consider their request to place this fence in that sideyard setback area. After a lot of discussion the Fence Committee was deadlocked two to two. That is why it is before you this evening because you are the next step in the appeal process. The owners did obtain a fence building permit and they were given a page from our ordinance that shows the location of fences whether it be a corner lot or an interior lot with the allowed heights. The fence was not inspected by our building inspector, they did not, I checked with them and they did not have record of a call for the inspection. One of Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 51 " the things that I did not put in my memo but you need to be aware of it is that this street Time Zone Way has a I think we refer to it as a parkway which is a landscape strip between back of sidewalk and between back of sidewalk. It is about 5 feet in width so showing on the plot plan is the sidewalk, if you go toward Time Zone there is a five foot strip of grass there and then the curb. Typically on subdivision streets your curb and gutter and sidewalk are adjoining each other. In this case from the back of curb from the travel way you actually have approximately 14 feet to the fence. I think that was one of the things that was really hanging the Fence Committee up of these two member, well I think all of us were hung up a little bit on it. Typically a fence this close you don't have that additional five feet to the curb. That is why we have been holding the fences back ten feet from the back of sidewalk just so we had in effect then we have 15 feet from the curb. Mr. and Mrs. Goehner were arguing that point also that there is more space given from the back of curb to the fence even though the fence sets four feet from the back of sidewalk. Morrow. So the total distance from curb then is Smith: Is approximately 14 feet. You have a five foot planter strip or grass strip from the back of curb then you have a five foot sidewalk and then you have four foot of grass again. So from the curb itself you actually have 14 feet of open space. Morrow. Normally you require ten feet from back of sidewalk. Smith: Normally we require 10 feet from back of sidewalk then you would have the five foot of sidewalk to the back of curb so you have 15 feet. So comparing the two you are just 1 foot short of what we normally would allow for a variance. There is no sight problem from Mr. Tink Place, a vehicle pulling out from Tink looking to the left, looking to the east, there is no site problem there with the fence in its present location. The only issue that we normally deal with here is the issues that we deal with are the site for the travelling public whether they are in an automobile or pedestrians and then we deal with the safety aspect for pedest~ ians walking down the sidewalk being next to a 6 fort fence. Now the other thing that Mr. Goehner brought up that the fence built along the irrigation ditch, well I show it as an imgation canal but it is actually Nine Mile Drain is a 6 foot foot rod iron fence-and that does extend all of the way to the property line or the, right of way line of Time Zone as a 6 foot rod iron fence. He asked the question if his fence had to come back to setback line would that rod iron fence have to stop at setback fine. I didn't have an answer for him I didn't know, I believe that was a perimeter fence on the first phase but it was also a requirement of the Council or the Irrigation District that the ditch be fenced. The other issue that was brought up at the meeting and I have since discussed this with my staff, Mr. Goehner indicated that he asked one of the girls in the office if a variance was required based on the plot plan he had with him when he picked up the permit and he was told that it wasn't required. The, I don't know what to say other thana copy of the fence ordinance Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 52 was given to Mr. Goehner and it is very clear where the fences are to be built. So, I have instructed staff that it is very simple, here is a picture of what you can do if you can't do this then you have to request a variance. It isn't any more complicated other than that. Crookston: Gary, what is the status of the adjoining properties? Smith: There is nothing going on at the east because it is a new section of subdivision so there hasn't been anything built and of course you have 60 feet of ditch before you get to the other perimeter fence that will be built or is being built or has been built along the ditch line. The property directly across the street to the south has no fence along its east boundary. Crookston: Is this a corner lot? Smith: Well it is in a way because it is cornered on one side by Mr. Tink Place and it is cornered on the other side by the Nine Mile Drain, but it is not a corner lot on the basis as far as streets are concerned: It is a corner lot with Tink and Time Zone. Crookston: Does that create a sight problem them? There would be no road because part of it is adjacent to Nine Mile Creek. Smith: The culdesac is on one side and the Nine Mile Creek is on the other side of it. It is a corner lot to Tink Place and Time Zone. But there shouldn't be a big visual problem to the east because you have 60 feet of open space before you even get to a building lot. The only time we are really concerned about these fences out in that setback area is if somebody is building a lot adjacent to it and they also have a driveway that is adjacent to the property line next to the fence. Morrow. Let me ask you this Gary is this located right by the culdesac that backs up to South Locust Grove? Is that where we are talking about here? Smith: If you leave Locust Grove travelling east it is quite a ways before you get to Nine Mile Drain and it is right there at Nine Mile Drain. Crookston: I am sorry on what was submitted to the City it says irrigation canal? Smith: That is Nine Mile Drain. Crookston: So it is not a canal? Smith: No, it is either a drain or a creek and that depends on whether you are a developer Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 53 ' or Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. Corrie: Gary, I understand that the fence is there now. Smith: Yes sir, it has been constructed in the location that is shown on the plot plan. Morrow. Mr. Mayor, could I ask we have two members of the fence committee here, could we ask their thoughts? Smith: Three Morrow: Three? Stiles: Councilman Rountree, Bill Gordon and myself, Malcolm MacCoy from P & Z is the other member of the committee. Rountree: So you want to put us on the spot? Morrow: I want to hear your opinion. Rountree: I cast my vote in this situation to allow the fence to stay. What finally drove me to that conclusion was the fact that the parkway or park strip is present there and we have sufficient space to provide for a site distance which is one of the primary reasons for the fence setback to begin with. Some of the information I think that transpired, between the City and the applicant with respect to the building permit that was issued, I am not going to point any fingers but they do have a building permit and they built their fence per that building permit. Looking at it and going on site and reviewing it though it does potentially establish a precedence for future fence construction in the neighborhood in this particular instance I voted to allow it to stay. Morrow: Was that a vote with or without scolding? Rountree: Minor scolding. Morrow: Chief? Gordon: Councilman Morrow and Council, I voted the fence should comply with the ordinances. Although this is a unique situation with that planter strip in there, there was some consideration given to that. The reason I stayed with the fence ordinance was a copy of the picture which is right in the ordinances was given to the owner of the house and it is very clear where the fence are to go. Anything short of that requires. a variance. So I Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 54 voted to stay with the variances Zhat we have been allowing throughout the City of Meridian. Morrow: Let me ask you this Gary, was there a double fee charged because of no inspection? Smith: No, fence permits are issued without any plans being required. The property owner just comes to the office and asks for a fence permit and they pay their fee, the permit is given to them along with a copy of the fence ordinance that shows pictorially how the fences are to be placed. The heights and the location. Morrow: Do we as a building department not do any inspections upon the completion of those fences? Smith: We do if we are called and attached to your copy is a copy of an inspection record and I have highlighted down there that is in bold print it says please call 887-1155 for inspections. But they are so busy that they don't have time to chase fence permits out, go back and see if the fence is done. Granted the fence posts are put in and they are concreted in generally and a period of time goes by from that point until Boards are actually nailed to the fence post. We don't have any record for inspection for this fence on the computer and that is only place the records are kept. I don't have any record that a call was placed, I .don't know. Corrie: How did it get brought up that they had the fence in the wrong place anyway? Smith: Well I think somebody called, I remember having phone calls with Bob because he was in Hailey of and on back and forth on a project and we were talking to his wife. I don't remember exactly how it happened but I think somebody called in. I don't know, but I think I ended up writing a letter to Bob saying that he needed to do something with it because it was in violation of the ordinance. Corrie: Does Council have any further questions? - - Smith: Mr. Mayor I might add one other thing, I think the reason that we said as a fence variance committee and suspect that 99% of the fence variance requests that we hear are concerned with corner lots. And the fact that typically corner lots are not any larger than interior lots and they do not with the sideyard setback of 20 feet or a side street setback of 20 feet they lose a lot of back yard. That is one of the reasons that we have so much business as this fence variance committee is so these folks with corner lots can have more back yard.. Chief Gordon lives on a corner lot and so he knows exactly what the situation is although his fence is back at the setback line. We had one other corner lot that came Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 55 " • in at the same meeting that had a significant back yard and it was denied because there wasn't any real reason for the variance to be given on that standpoint alone. And I guess you get into an opinion status of what is a big back yard. It depend on how young you are and how much grass you like to mow I don't know or how many children you have. So we are trying to walk a line here between allowing a corner lot to have a yard that is usable for the family for the resident plus providing safety for the travelling public and vehicles and for the walking pedestrians and not creating a boulevard and alley way with a six foot fence that is looming up along side of the sidewalk. I think when we started out with our variance committee we did let a couple of those get away from us. They put the six foot fence on the property line and I can take you to it in Crestwood Subdivision and it looks like you know what, it is not good. You end up with an unmanageable strip of ground and you can't do anything with it. Walking down the sidewalk you just feel like you are boxed in. That is not particularly the case with this one because of the parkway. I think it is a difficult situation and that is one reason that the fence committee is split on it. But with your masterful use of logic I am sure that you will arrive at the correct decision. Corrie: On that note, does the Council have enough information at this point to make a decision? Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I think we ought to hear from the appellants. Corrie: That was my next question. Goehner: My name is Robert Goehner, in putting at the fence it was not done with malicious intent by any means. My intent was to do it right the first time. When I first came in here that way my main goal. I brought a set of plans in for review and I think (inaudible) after 1 reviewed them, there was a landscape plan to scale, blah, blah, blab, that it was kind of understood that it was okay what I was doing so I went ahead and did it. The intent was to come in and apply for a variance at that time. .But again I was under the understanding that it was okay. I nrver really reviewed that 81/2 by 11 until I got Gary's copy with his letter. Then when I read it he is in fact right it is clear. (Inaudible) I guess what I am looking at is that I did it with honest intent and to do it the right way. So that is why I am here tonight because now I have (inaudible). I personally don't see the problem with it because it is well constructed, probably better than most fences in the neighborhood. I did, I work for an engineering company so you overdo everything. At any rate, the bottom line is I tried to do everything. right and I did get a permit. 1 have a lot of questions now as there is no inspection blah, blah, blah. Which I honestly never saw the inspection number at the bottom. I am asking why do I even need a permit. I felt that I did all the right things, I tried to do them properly. I don't see the dangers there with that fourteen foot. Thank you. Meridian City Council July 10, 1996 Page 56 ' Corrie: Any further questions of the applicant or staff? I guess we will entertain a motion one way or the other and see which way it flies. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we vary the fence ordinance for this application to allow the fence to remain in place as constructed. Morrow. Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Morrow, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Is there anybody else here that we need to do (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Corrie: This is on that letter of explanation, Fire Light Estates Lot 2, Block 9. Stiles: Have you had a chance to read that that was submitted by Steve, that letter of explanation? Did you happen to bring a copy of the plat? (Inaudible) Stiles: What happened was when Glen Johnson started the annexation process and the platting process this entire property was included. Sometime after the annexation he split off the existing house and sold it to another party. That parry does not want to have to give up the additional right of way at this time. They don't want the sidewalk extended through his property, that would put the sidewalk about ten feet from .the front of his garage. He is not apparently willing to sign the plat as being part of the plat. I really don't see any problem with excluding that lot, however I didn't want it to be just a staff level decision that this was part of the project and all of the sudden it is not because it has gone through the entire process and the final plat. This only came up when. he got to the County Engineer's office and he determined that was separate ownership and that the certificate of owners is not correct. So I don't know, it is a nice house that is there, it is pretty close to the road. I haven't seen the inside, it looks like they have done significant modifications to the outside. It is really not part of the plat as far as having any access or being really connected to it. Corrie: This is the one on the end on the comer?