March 12, 2002 City CouncilCITY OF MERIDIAN
CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, March 12, 2002 at 5:30 p.m.
City Council Chambers
Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Adoption of the Agenda:
Ordinance No.
Public Hearing:
and Action Plan:
02-943
· Official Newspaper: Approve
Proposed Comprehensive Parks and Recreation System
Continued Public Hearing to April 2nd, 2002
Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda - March 12, 2002 Page 1 ofl
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Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 3 of 18
Roll Call: Bird, aye; Nary, aye; McCandless, aye; de Weerd, aye.
Corrie: All ayes motion has been carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 4.
Public Hearing: Proposed Comprehensive Parks and Recreation System
and Action Plan:
Corrie: Item Number 4 is a Public Hearing for Proposed Comprehensive Parks and
Recreation System and Action Plan. Mr. Kuntz. First, let me do this right. I will open
the Public Hearing on the proposed Comprehensive Parks and Recreation System and
Action Plan. Okay, Mr. Kuntz.
Kuntz: Mr. Mayor and Council it's with a groat deal of pleasure that I present our Parks
and Recreation Commission tonight who have spent numerous hours on putting this
plan together and also have spent a numerous number of hours in the last week putting
this presentation together. Paul Newcomb has put the PowerPoint presentation
together with the assistance of the rest of the Commission. With that, I'll introduce Mr.
David Moe who will do the introduction.
Moe: Mr. Mayor, Council Members, and audience good evening. The following is the
departments mission statement. Meridian Parks and Recreation seeks to provide
opportunities for citizens of Meridian to participate in life enhancing activities by offering
quality year around recreation programs and a well-designed and maintained Park
System. Having said that, in 1999 the Park and Recreation Commission hired
consultants Landerman-Moore Associates to assemble a workable Comprehensive
Plan for the Park and Rec Department. After numerous drafts, the final plan was
completed in 2000. During the early drafts and final document stage the Commission
was frustrated that the consultant was preparing a very generic plan with data noting
mainly national averages, nothing, which was specific to the City of Meridian.
Therefore, we then decided to hiro Jerry Draggoo of MIG Incorporated to review the
Comprehensive Plan and a symbol and Action Plan, which would be moro specific to
the City of Meridian. As noted on Page 1-1 of the action plan it states both plans should
be adopted together with the Action Plan taking precedence. There aro five chapters
within the Action Plan, which will be presented tonight by Commission Members along
with various charts and graphs for your review. Mr. Mayor and Council as we go
through the action plan I hope you will take notice of the graphs and charts assembled
hero. That you keep an open mind to this plan and understand that although it is a very
aggressive plan to provide adequate parks, open space, trails and other recreational
facilities for our increasing population within the Meridian aroa of impact it's exactly what
it says it's just a plan. Something, which has never existed. Now that the city has a
Park and Rec Commission and Director to advise Council on Park and Recreation
issues this plan will help define city requirements and desires for the citizens of Meridian
with estimated cost projections and methods of possible funding options to bring some if
not all of the Action Plan to (inaudible). I thank you for your attention. At this time, I
would like to introduce Commission Member Debbie Watkins to review Chapter 2.
Watkins: (Inaudible) talk to my students. Thank you Mr. Moe. Good evening Mayor.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
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Corrie: Debbie, just a minute would you give your name?
Watkins: Debbie Watkins.
Corrie: Thank you.
Watkins: That's for the record.
Corrie: This is a Public Hearing I guess your right. Raise your right hand. Is the
testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help
you god?
Watkins: It is.
Corrie: Thank you.
Watkins: Good evening Mayor, City Council Members and audience. My task here is
just to brief you on the five or six types of park systems that's listed in your
comprehensive book. You should all have your book out in front of you I hope and you
can follow along with me. There will be detention if there isn't. The overall concept of
the park system that we have tried to create in our plan features a larger multi-use
community parks as our centerpiece. Our desire is to have a park system within one to
one and a half miles of each residence in the city. Linking these park systems would be
our pathways. There you will find the string of pearls written in there. The string of
pearls just simply is this the pearls are the parks and the string is the pathways that
should meet or come close to meeting all the parks when we're finished. This is our
goal, this is our plan, and this is the vision. I'm going to just really briefly define the
different types of the park systems that you'll see in your plan. The first one we have is
mini parks. It's less than an acre. It's designed to provide a playground system for just
the neighborhood that it's in. Simply that it's very many. We only have one at this point
in time and it's the Tammy Street. It's a half an acre. The next one is neighborhood
parks and these parks range from five to seven acres in size. The radius of this park
should approximately serve one half mile designed for non-specified, non-supervised,
non-organized recreation activities. It could include, may include playground, picnic,
trails, pathways, outdoor basketball, and practice fields for soccer, youth baseball, and
restrooms. That was could, may, or may not. When possible you should build these or
we should build these next to school sites so we can have a larger open space area.
We have two currently. Eighth Street Park at four acres and Chateau Park at 6.8 when
it's complete. I'm going to read this as per addendum because I thought it was stated
really well. You should have received an addendum dated the 7th of February 2002.
While the city supports neighborhood parks, its primary focus is on developing
community-sized parks that provide a greater variety of functions and serve a larger
number of citizens. The city would look favorably at developers providing public
neighborhood parks. The city would assume the liability and maintenance responsibility
if the developer chose to deed the park to the city. Into the third and most important
primary type of park system that the Commission has set. That's the community park.
The area of the community parks the size is 20 to 30 area 25 being maximum - or being
optimum. It's less expensive to build per acre over neighborhood parks or many parks.
Meddian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
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It's designed to serve an approximately one to two mile radius from the residence. It's
for organized sports and activities and could may or may not include sports fields, tennis
courts, open multi-use green space, playground equipment, restrooms, picnics,
shelters, pathways, trails, basketball courts, skateboard parks just to name a few.
Acquisition of these types of parks should occur far in advance of their need. Far in
advance. So far we have Storey Park 20 acres, Tulley Park 18 acres and Fuller Park is
25 acres, which is in the recreation district. The fourth type is a large urban park.
Minimum size is approximately 50 acres. The radius is designed to serve the entire
community. It's designed for sports fields, may or may not include, tennis courts,
restrooms, playgrounds, skate parks, large picnic areas, small picnic areas, shelters,
trails, pathways, indoor facilities, aquatic facilities just to name a few. The fifth is special
area - special use areas. The size and location of these of course depend on what
they're used for. A specialized park can be used by the entire city population. So far,
we have Generations Plaza, which is about a quarter of an acre, or more now that's it's
finished. City Hall Park .2 acres. The outdoor pool which is in the recreation district and
its one-acre. The sixth and final is the open space areas. The size of course is different
because it's natural open space is undeveloped land that's left in its natural environment
or as close as possible where recreation is really secondary. Individual parcels or
combined parcels are there to create continuous linear patterns for trails or pathways,
which is our - do you remember?. Is that the pearls or the strings? I'm asking a
question. That's the strings. The Five Mile Creek, Ten Mile Creek, and Nine Mile Drain
are all parts of that sort of system. In conclusion, I would like the Council and Mayor to
listen to these words. We would like you to know that this plan is a template, is an
itinerary, is a wish list, and is a guide. It's a starting point for the city. It's not finite. It's
a starting point. It's some place to direct our attention when we do have the fund
available, the land given or donated or an opportunity where we can manipulate what
we need for parks in this area from now into the future. I wanted to also tell you that the
Commission would welcome five to seven acre park that the developers are willing to
trade for impact fees perhaps. Where the developer would be the one to build and staff
and maintain - and we perhaps would maintain. I also wanted to mention again that
when you look at this the community parks were chosen primarily for its use of the
space, it's proximity or radius from the community. It's less expensive to build than
smaller parks. With this said I'm going to turn this presentation over to Mr. MacCoy.
He's going to be (inaudible) identifying the cities inventory as it stands today. Thank
you.
Corrie: Thank you. Did we act like kids in school?
Watkins: You were very good.
Corrie: Okay thank you. Malcolm - or Mr. MacCoy if you raise your right hand. Is the
testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help
you god.
MacCoy: As the best of my knowledge yes.
Corrie: I may have to do this again but you're right. Thank you. Will you give your
name and address please for the record?
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March 12, 2002
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MacCoy: My name is Bruce MacCoy I'm at 2171 South Retriever in the City of
Meridian. It's going to be my pleasure to address you Mayor and Council Members on
the second part of Section 2. Everybody else who talks you'll be talking about what
could be and all the fine things this plan holds. I'm going to talk to you about what is.
Currently in the City of Meridian, we have very limited parks to offer. Before I get too
detailed let me back up and look at - currently the (inaudible) is somewhere between 8
and 10 acres per thousand citizens would be a good amount of community recreation
space. This graph shows what's available in the State of Idaho, cities of a like size or
around us here for park land for the citizens. As you can see Meridian over in the far
right barely (inaudible) out 2.39 acres per thousand it's just we're way behind the curve.
Our goal with this plan is to deliver to our citizens four acres per thousand. We think
that's pretty aggressive from where we stand now and we think it's also doable. We
look at what's coming down the road as proposed growth for the City of Meridian. By
the time this plan peters out six years from now in 2008 we should have probably close
to 50,000 citizens. That would require us to have close to 200 acres of space available
for our citizens. That's really, what this plan is driving towards. Towards that end we
currently look at - that read really well. Let me walk you through this because I don't
know if all of you can see that very well from there. Currently we have Storey Park at
15 acres, Tulley Park at 18 acres, and Eighth Street Park at 4 acres, Generations Plaza
which is a special use area a quarter of an acre. City hall park at a fifth of an acre
another special use area, the Fathergill Pathway at a linear park at a half-acre and the
Five Mile Creek Pathway at 1.2 acres is a linear park. That gives us a total of 39.15
acres currently existing. Now we have also right now sites being developed as we
speak that have already been budgeted by this Council that will be coming park land, is
it by September Tom? Will join our system by September so we are counting this now
as additional parks (inaudible) be available by the end of this year which is 6.8 acres at
Chateau Park, 20 acres in Meridian Settler's Park and 18 acres at Bear Creek Park.
That brings us to a total if you're taking the 39.15 acres existing and the additional 44.80
that that last bit I just gave to you comes to at the end of September we'll have a total of
83.95 acres of developed park land for our citizens. We take that and put that with the
other parks that are available for people to use in our city under WARD, the Western
Ada Recreation District we come to a total - 26.5 acres of those park lands so a total of
110 acres currently available for us (inaudible) in our community right now. We're pretty
close to achieving this year where we want to be in the immediate future but we need to
move forward with the plan to get where we need to be in six years, which is double this
figure. That's one thing we would like you to keep in mind as you look at this plan. It's
a starting point. If we don't start now we're never going to be able to catch up to where
we need to be in six years. With that, I will turn this over to Sheri Baker.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth so help you god?
Baker: Yes.
Corrie: Okay your name and address for the record please.
Baker: Sheri Baker, 1746 Jericho in Meridian, Idaho. The third chapter of our Park's
Action Plan is trails - well actually it's not just trails and pathways is facility
recommendations which includes trails, pathways, community center which I'm going to
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March 12, 2002
Page 7 of 18
touch on and then I'll turn it over to Paul. As Debbie mentioned earlier the trails and
pathways system is designed for recreational uses mainly. We have to keep in mind
that it also provides non-motorized travel throughout our community if it's fully
developed. Excluding pathways and existing or planned parks, we only have two
pathways - real true pathway systems. That's the Five Mile Creek Pathway, which is a
mile long, and the Fathergill Pathway. The plan in the action plan outlines general
guidelines for land use, site selection and then the design and development of those
trails. The map that which you have in your action plan shows the trails plan, the
recommendation of where we believe the pathways should be planned. The yellow all
around the outside of the perimeter is the main - the Meridian loop is our main - well I
wouldn't call it our main pathway. This is probably the furthest out from happening but
eventually we could connect the whole perimeter of the city. Almost about 13 miles I
think we have estimated at. Then we also have the three main green ones, which kind
of follow the three naturally occurring geographic areas that we have which are the Five
Mile Creek, Ten Mile Drain, and the South Slough. Then there are several others in
there that connect. The idea is that the city would develop these eventually in time and
then smaller ones would be developed by the development community as they're
planning subdivisions. As new things come online, business parks and whatever that
would eventually help connect the main system, get you to the main system so that you
could get to the other side of town or you could get to a park without driving your car. It
had a lot more uses then just getting on the greenbelt and getting some exercise. We
can cut down the amount of traffic if you want to get from one point to the next or from
your house to a park to go watch a ball game. You can ride your bike or walk with your
kids then all the better on top of getting exercise. The next slide - yes. Now when we
talk about the community center this is something that we realize is going to be a need
in the future. We haven't determined how soon in the future or exactly what the need is
going to be. In past surveys and planning when we did the original Comprehensive
Plan there's definitely an interest. Some possible uses for the community center could
be a multi-purpose gym, space to have teen and senior activities as far as recreation
classes. A multi-purpose reception room for banquets possibly, large and small
meeting rooms, a climbing wall, exercise weight training room, run and walking track
and obviously support facilities to run the community center. These are just possible
uses. I know earlier in the plan it also talks about an indoor aquatic center. More
surveys and more research has to be done to tell us exactly what we want to put into a
community center, what we can afford to put in, what the community wants and also
obviously, how we would pay for something like this. It's definitely something that
needs to be included in the plan because somewhere down the road we definitely need
to have this in Meridian. I think the people want to see it we just don't know what form
yet. This is like I said it's a general guideline an outline for possible uses. It mentions
the community center but again we have to do further research on that. Now Paul will
talk to you about sports fields.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth so help you god?
Newcomb: Yes it is.
Corrie: Thank you. Name and address for the record please.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 8 of 18
Newcomb: My name is Paul Newcomb and I reside at 3837 West Harbor Pointe Drive
in Meridian. The sections that I'm going to cover tonight are in regards to the sports
fields and specialized recreational facilities around the city. The sports field situation in
Meridian is near and dear to my heart. It's a very big problem that I personally get to
deal with everyday being the facility manager for the Meridian Youth Baseball
Organization. At this point, we have as the chart shows there. The adult softball fields
available for scheduling currently stand at three. The need stands at five. For youth
baseball, we currently have five available. Realistically, we could use about 19. The
youth soccer currently has no fields available and is need of about eight. Of course, this
zero fields available doesn't include the sod farm that they're playing on, on the corner
of Eagle Road and Fairview. That particular situation is something that I've brought up
to City Council before. As a parent and as a driver it scares me to think that there's
going to be hundreds of van loads of little soccer players on and off of Eagle Road
during peak traffic hours. I pray to god that we don't get our park situation rammed up
our nose by a semi truck running over a van load of kids. The recommendations that
the plan makes in regards to sports fields starting off with - starts off with a formation of
a sports council. This is a council that would be composed of city leaders, school
leaders, and representatives from the various sports organizations. These folks would
be primarily in charge of setting policies to manage the sports fields throughout the
town. Part of this sport's council's job would be organizing centralized field scheduling.
Fields currently are being under utilized because there's no one checking how much
time the organization actually needs. The organization representative calls up,
schedules the field for as much time as he can possibly get and it's left at that. One of
the things that we're doing as Meridian Youth Baseball we're doing is to put our fields
onto a much more rigorous usage schedule so that we can consolidate more teams on
fewer fields and use a much more efficient use of the time. I can very much see where
this centralized field scheduling would be a great program to adapt citywide. Third is
the introduction of a tiered field system. We don't have to have a Boise Hawk Baseball
Stadium on every city park that's not practicable and not practical. You would have
fields on one of three levels. Level one would be practice fields. Basically, what you
have here is something that is again, to what you'll find the most of schoolyards
throughout Meridian. You find a green space with a backstop. If they want to figure out
where 60 or 90 feet is between the baselines they can go throw bases down and just
general practice fields with open areas for them to play with nothing more than a back
stop. Level two you get to a game field. This is a field where you're likely going to see
facility improvements such as digging out an infield, mounding a pitchers mound,
baselines, foul lines, something much more permanent. It's not something you're going
to see where you're going to have field lighting, concession stands, built in bleachers or
things like that. That comes into level three under the tournament field situation. The
tournament fields are going to be a full blown, sports complex type field. This is where
you're going to see permanent concession stands built, permanent seating, possibly
lighting. This is going to be a high quality field. Moving onto the specialized
recreational facility recommendations - let me back up here. I'm focusing a little too
much on baseball right at the minute. I've got baseball on the brain here. This tiered
field system is going to work beyond baseball. The practice fields and game fields
these are all sorts of things that you're going to be able to integrate football, soccer, any
of the other league and team sports onto these fields because these are not things that
are going to have outfield fences and permanent improvements that are going to
preclude using the fields for other uses. Whereas when you get to tournament fields
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 9 of 18
those are going to be much more specialized. Something like that you would have - if
you're going to have a tournament soccer field, a tournament baseball fields, or a
tournament football field the improvements on that are going to identify specially for that
one use. Specialized recreational facilities obviously the Skate Park is under way. That
is an issue that has taken a lot of effort but it is finally progressing. Group picnic area
this is looking for somewhere where groups in excess of 50 people can gather for a
picnic. Currently outside of possibly meeting rooms or various catering facilities around
town, there really is nowhere outdoors that really has good facilities for holding a large
group picnic. Tulley Park currently is the only facility that really has a - well Tulley and
Storey both I guess have some facilities available. It would be nice to have something
that had a much more organized group picnic structure available. The adventure
playground - the adventure playground idea is taking the averege city park playground
and magnifying it 10 fold. This would be a playground where people would make a trip
clear across town, possibly from the other side of Boise to come play on it. This is
something that's going to hold the kids attention for several hours. The outdoor water
playground concept is much the same as what Eagle has in their city plaza. This is a
(inaudible) possibly a (inaudible) water feature or an easily managed above ground
water feature possibly needing life guards, possibly not depending on the concept.
Outdoor reception area this is a shortage throughout the entire valley there are very few
areas where you can have some type of a formal outdoor reception whether it be
wedding, annivereary, or any of those sorts of things. This would be a very nice
addition to the facilities in Meridian and it's currently just not available. As you are
probably aware there is some movement going on within the community to work on
building an indoor ice rink, which has also been identified as a current short fall. At this
point, I'm going to turn the microphone over to Creig Steele and he's going to touch
base on Chapter 4 on the management recommendations with you.
Corrie: Creig, is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth so help you god?
Steele: It is.
Corrie: Name and address for the record please.
Steele: Craig Steele 2021 Northwest 8th in Meridian. Good evening Mayor and Council.
Real quickly in this chapter. In Chapter 4 it deals with staffing requirements and impact
fees. The impact fees we're going to cover in a little bit more detail with Jim but as far
as the staffing requirements go, currently we have 6.8 full time equivalents in parks as
far as for maintenance. With that, we have 39.15 acres, which if you divide that out
that's 5.9 acres per employee, which is kind of a Iow as far as the acreage that we
would like. The targets, the ideal targets that we would like to hit would be 7.9 acres per
employee so we're currently not there. By the end of the summer, we will have 84
acres up and going. At that point, that will 12.4 acres per employee. By the end of the
summer that number gets to be a lot better then what it currently is. On the other side
of that, as far as maintenance costs the current maintenance cost in the current budget
is 393,645 dollars. If you divide that by the 39 acres, it's a cost of 10,093 dollars. By
the end of the summer of course that cost drops down quite a bit with 4,686 dollars per
acre. The ideal target at that one is 8,000 dollars per acre. It's pretty much as far as
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March 12, 2002
Page 10 of 18
that again with the impact fees Jim's going to cover that in a whole lot more detail.
turn it over to Jim.
Keller: I'm going to use a couple of presentation boards if that's okay.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give tonight the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth so help you god?
Keller: You bet. Jim Keller, 587 East Kingsford Drive in Meridian Idaho. What I'm
going to try and do is just give you a little summary of everything that's happened so
that you can get a visual picture of what we're accomplishing with the six year plan. I
won't go much further than that but if you look at the far chart, you've seen that chart on
the wall before. Our goal is to try and get to about four to five acres per thousand
people. Right now, at the end of the summer when we complete the construction that
we're underway with right now we will be in 3.2.
De Weerd: (Inaudible).
Keller: We will be at 3.2 acres per thousand. We've made some real progress going
from 2.3 up to 3.2 with the programs that we're working with right today that the Council
has funded and also through impact fees. If -- the population is somewhere around 35
to 36,000 people. That says that we are going to need if we go with the goal of four
acres per thousand people we will need an additional 29.5 acres of developed park
land, which we do not presently have. We own the land but we haven't developed it. If
we go to five we'll need 64 and the equivalent cost to develop those at four acres per
thousand is 2,360,000 dollars. If we go to the five it's another 5 million dollars. This
assumes that there is no donations or inkind work. I'm trying to give you a comparison
here of the financing. If you go to 50,000 people whether that's six years or ten years
let's don't worry about that. Let's worry about the fact that it's 20 or 50,000 people you
would need an additional 89.5 acres of developed land or if you go to five you would
need 139 acres and you see the corresponding cost. The total cost then would be we
need to get to 200 to 250 acres of developed land by the time we get to a population of
50,000 people. Any questions? Let's talk about how we're going to get there and how
much it's going to cost to get there. This chart shows our proposed six-year plan. If you
look at that plan compared to this chart, you can see what the six-year plan would do for
us. The way the plan is set up right is you see the ten acre - that the park's that are
going to be developed we talked about those before. The Ten Mile Park, the
McDermott Road Park, the Eagle Road Park, the Kiwanis Park, the Settler's Park and
so forth you see the land that there is proposed in the six year plan to be purchased or
donated is about 87 acres. If you add that to the acres, we already have 145 acres you
get to 232 so maybe you look at this chart and you say not bad. We're going to be
moving in the right direction. We're going to get to some place between four and five
acres of owned land not necessarily developed land. If you look at the other side this
says okay, we're going to develop parks. The same park series and a bunch of other
recreation facilities are in the six-year plan. You see here what's going to happen here
as we get these developed we'll add another 107 acres of developed land which will
take us to a total with existing land of 217.5 acres. Again, you look at the chart over
here so we have an opportunity to accomplish the goal of getting to four acres per
thousand people. You say okay, where are those parks. We have a little presentation
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 11 of 18
chart that shows that we'll leave with the City Council. This basically shows the parks.
Now we've talked about a lot of other things here but basically, the trails hopefully will
come. What we're interested primarily is developing parks. We have a small park here
it's the Kiwanis Park, you see the parks corresponding numbers is the Eagle Road.
This is the McDermott and Ten Mile Park and then we'll complete the Meridian Settler's
Park. That will be the park's hopefully that we're able to complete with this funding
package. Now the next question is okay, that's a nice plan where's the money going to
come from? We'll be begging from the city to get some of that money. This is what is
proposed as the funding mechanism. In impact fees at the present rate of impact fees
at 529 dollars per lot or per equivalent dwelling unit over a six-year period will generate
about 2,400,000 dollars. So far, the City Council has been very generous in offering
and getting - we've been obtaining about 400,000 from general funds a year. Over six
years that's another 2.4 million. There are grant funds that are available that we're now
actively pursuing to achieve additional funding and then we're hoping to get some
donations and we'll talk about those here a little bit to come up with a total package of
6,735,000 dollars as you see over there. This plan is very, very optimistic in that we do
need to come up with some donations. Those donations could be land, donations from
different clubs and so forth but if it turns out that we are not successful in achieving this
then we're going to have to adjust something somewhere else. We're actively pursuing
that opportunity but the Council needs to recognize the fact that we are hoping to get
this. One way that we might obtain that would be say a 100-acre, 200-acre subdivision
comes in, they donate some land, we credit them some impact fees. Hopefully we
don't' have to credit them more than there lots. If we do, then that will lead into this fund
and so we would have less donations. The goal is that. There have been some
questions raised about the impact fees and the justification of being able to charge an
impact fee for this 529 dollars. If you look at this chart, this is a calculation of the
allowable impact fee that would be allowed based on todays - or the acreage that we
would have per thousand people at the end of this year that's already funded. At the
end of this year, we will have 3.2 acres per thousand people. You go across here you
see the land cost, the development cost and basically the number would be 1,031
dollars per acre at the present level of service. That means then that for any new
development we could assess up to 1,000 dollars per equivalent dwelling unit per
equivalent lot. If we were to achieve by the end of this year or some other time by
annexing or developing additional parks four acres per thousand that would be 1200
dollars. Then to maintain that level we would have to be able to acquire that amount of
money someplace 1200 dollars per lot. Right now, we're presently charging 529 dollars
per lot, which is 51.3 percent of the amount that we will - level of service that we have
established or will establish by the end of this year. With that, I would entertain any
questions. I'm sure any of the board members would be happy to answer any questions
that you might have.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This isn't a question but I think for public testimony you better get Mr. Moe up here
to swear in before we go any farther.
De Weerd: (inaudible).
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 12 of 18
Corrie: Has the testimony you've given tonight the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth so help you god?
Moe: Yes it is.
Corrie: Thank you. That was to let the record show that that was David Moe. You are
looking at increasing the impact fees through Committee and (inaudible)?
Kuntz: Mr. Mayor and Council.
Corrie: Raise your right hand please you've got to be sworn in. Is the testimony you're
about to give the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god?
Kuntz: It is.
Corrie: Name and address please.
Kuntz: Tom Kuntz 268 West Clair in Meridian Idaho. Mayor and Council the six-year
plan as you see it tonight is based upon our current level of impact fees. There is a
paragraph contained in the plan that recommends increasing our impact fees from 529
for single-family resident to 729 per single-family resident. It will generate
approximately 900,000 dollars over a six-year period of time. That's where Mr. Keller
suggested that - we have about one million four in this plan that we're looking for in
donations. We know that's going to be a tough goal to achieve but that's where the
increase in impact fees could also help. We are asking for and not tonight of course,
because this is a workshop but we are asking for approval of this plan. Once that is
done then the next step that we would pursue would be asking for an increase in impact
fees, going through the proper channels and meeting with the associated realtors and
builders council.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I would first like to commend the Park's Commission for first this wonderful
presentation. It was very well -
***End Of Side One***
De Weerd: -- all the steps that this Commission has gone through in developing this
plan. Boy, when I first saw the plan that came - that was first developed I thought all
was lost. This in addition to all the fine-tuning that the Commission has done is just
fantastic. You've created a great vision and it looks like you're going to have a lot of
hard work ahead of you. I appreciate the commitment that has been shown and the
enthusiasm in trying to pursue the vision that you're creating here tonight. You've
brought this a long way. I guess I have a couple of things. There was a Pathway
Committee and I know somewhere out there is a pathway plan. I don't think it's too far
off what is in this plan here but as we look at developing the standards and that sort of
Meddian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 13 of 18
thing, the standards and the work that was done by that Pathway Committee does need
to be a part of this plan or referenced or something. That is one issue that I wanted to
bring up.
Watkins: Council Member de Weerd I did speak with Ed Fong today he got back in
town. He emailed me a three-page committee report. A lot of what they said is
included in the plan as far as design specifics. They actually went into much more
detail on design specifics as far as how wide, easements, and site vision easements
those kinds of things. They do have a lot more detail. He did tell me that he would be
dropping off ail of the hard copies of everything that he has to Tom Kuntz' office
hopefully (inaudible) too and on his travel schedule. He would be getting us hard copies
of all that. I do have their committee report, recommendations, vision statement, and
what not. I don't know if you actually want us to include it in the action plan or maybe
just reference it as a way to complete the path when we acquire the space for that.
De Weerd: Well maybe it's something that you can have on your agenda on
Wednesday I don't know. I think this is already referenced in our Comprehensive Plan
so you don't want too many document floating around out there to find these things. I
do know the development community as we're looking at these pathways and they
traverse through their properties are looking for more specific guidelines and those
kinds of things that I think this committee had. Also, in our Comprehensive Plan Public
Hearing there was testimony on how we can tie up through Linder Road toward the
state park to the north. That would be something that if we're considering it in our
Comprehensive Plan it certainly needs to be a part of this.
Watkins: Are you talking up towards Eagle Island?
De Weerd: Yes, and how we can incorporate that maybe into the North Meridian Area
Plan. Pathways were one. The sports council that's a new idea I think. It must have
been recently developed. I would like to see how - I like to see these kinds of
recommendations because it starts to mold how your plan is going to start coming to
formation. I would really love to see that happen and would love to see how it will
happen. In that sports council, a number of months ago I believe it was when Ed Fong
was on and when we were starting to digest the first draft we got. Some of the issues
that we wanted to address that I don't think have been really given - they've been given
a lot of time at the Commission level. I don't really see a lot of it at this plan and that
would be the partnership with the school district and green space management. This is
an open space resource that right now it's a lot, or it has been a lot of what Meridian has
only had. This is a key component of the sports council or of anything else. I don't
know, maybe I would like to see a little bit more detail or a little bit more emphasis
placed on developing that kind of partnership. Partnerships are encouraged, referenced
and valued in this plan but maybe we do need to get a little bit more into it. I would be
curious to hear what your thoughts are on that.
Newcomb: Speaking from both a user standpoint and as one of the representatives of a
sports league one of the biggest things that I could see a sports council Number 1 is
more effectively utilizing the space available. We have constant battles between the
sports leagues with one league signing up and camping out and no other league is able
to use the facility. As I said, for Meridian Youth Baseball we took one of our computer
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March t2, 2002
Page 14 of 18
wizards and turned him loose with the list of facilities that we had available, the number
of teams, the number games and all that. He came up with a database where he could
just absolutely schedule each field to it's capacity assuming that we factored in a wear
and tear margin so that we're not running these things down to bare dirt. Your comment
about forming partnerships with the schools and things like that one of my greatest
frustrations is the lack of communication between all the sports leagues in the school.
Quite frankly the lack of exposure as a parent. When I try and find out what's going on I
want to be able to go to one place. That one place doesn't always have all the
information available or currently doesn't exist. You have to kind of pick and choose to
find out what's going on. I think the sports Council could be a great benefit because it
could give the citizens of Meridian one place to focus. Hey, if I want to do something
with sports this is who I call, no questions asked they would know. That would include
all the schools, representatives, adult sports leagues, kids sports leagues, all of it. I
think that's a very important point to be made.
De Weerd: Do you think through that that sports Council function or umbrella this kind
of a green space management would happen?
Newcomb: To a point. I don't think the sports council is going to be stepping in and
taking over Mr. Kuntz' function because that is their primary function is to manage their
park's system. This sports council is primarily going to be an advisory capacity with
their major focus on being the liaison between all of the cities league sports
organizations and the Park's Department. Primarily focused on sports field utilization.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'm not particularly sure who can answer this but I guess what's a little bit
confusing to me to follow up I think on what Councilman de Weerd just said, some of
the references in this plan talk about property that isn't owned by the city but is
developed. Like the parts that are owned by Western Ada Recreation District for
example. The schools aren't counted at all in any of the open space calculations yet
they are counted as existing fields to fulfill some of the need that there's obviously more
need on top of that. It seems a little confusing to me if I was a member of the public
reading this. The number of acres and number of facilities that are needed I don't think
are necessarily wrong but I'm just a little concerned that a public - a member of the
public would say, well wait a minute you're counting that school in one chart and you're
not counting it in the other. What was the reason for that?
Kuntz: Mayor, Council, and Council Member Nary. Two comments, one is our
consultant purposely cautioned us away from including the school property into our
inventory. Our task really is to provide municipal facilities that are city owned and city
maintained. That was the first suggestion from our consultant. Two is I think at a
secondary level including that into an inventory of open spaces available for community
use and scheduled by youth sports organizations I think would be very practical and
would go along the lines of what Paul is talking about as far as a sports council. As far
as the plan that we hope to put before you tonight and start building the consultant was
very clear that in other communities they do identify only city owned, city maintained
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 15 of 18
facilities and do not purposely identify school facilities. Now with that said, there is -
we're hoping there is a possibility of parting with the district to identify some sites that
are used very heavily by the community. One of those would be of course the middle
school site to where we would come in possibly with some city funds and school district
monies in a partnership. Similar to what we did with the high school tennis courts and
upgrade those facilities as far as underground irrigation systems. The friends at
Meridian Park actually have committed money to make that happen. I believe it was
two years ago. To bring those facilities up to a level, since they are used heavily by the
community it a quasi park really type of arrangement and partner to keep those at a
level to where they're safe and I guess a little higher level than the district is able to
afford on their own.
Nary: To follow up. Tom, Chief Joseph does the same thing and Linder Elementary
does the same thing. There are a number of school sites that we've had discussions
with the school district about that partnership. I guess that just seemed to be the only
thing in here because I think this is excellent. There's a lot of great information and
there's a lot of great things in here. It just seemed to be the one piece that as I read
through it just seemed to be missing. There's no reference to anything in relation really
to the schools except some facilities occasionally are mentioned. It's not calculated as
recreational spaces being used yet we have other area - other things like Western Ada
Recreation. That's not a city owned park, Fuller Park, or the swimming pool but yet we
count that. I guess I'm a little curious. It just seems like a conflict to me or just a little
piece that's not there that at least there should be some sort of reference about it that's
all.
Kuntz: I need to go back to the original plan done by Landerman-Moore. I believe the
schools were actually included in that inventory but it's - is that true Mr. Berg?
Nary: In this one?
Kuntz: Yes, I think the school property is included in that but it's been so long since I've
Nary: -- and I didn't review this one again, I just read through the other one.
Kuntz: Yes.
Nary: Like I said it's not the biggest thing in the world but it just - if I was a lay person
trying to figure this out I would say well wait a minute are you including these schools
and are you including these sites too. Maybe we don't need to develop as much park
land of that type and we need to focus it on a different type of recreational use.
Kuntz: Because many of those school sites, Council Member Nary are really used for
use sports practices. The middle school I believe Meridian Elementary is used by our
youth baseball organization for a game site. They are used for recreational
opportunities your are correct.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 16 of 18
Corrie: Ms. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Just to add to that. I recall the consultant saying that you don't use those
unless you have an agreement with the school district. Then you can utilize that as your
green space in those calculations. I do think it is important to identify specific schools
that are heavily used by the community that a partnership would make sense in
improving that green space and maximizing that piece of open space. I think - and
that's why I would like to see a little bit more reference to the schools and in securing or
pursuing, that kind of partnership so that that green space management in those heavily
used areas can be part of that calculation. That might even be a less expensive way to
raise your level of service to the four, which would be the goals so you can start
collecting impact fees at different rates. Just an idea. It's certainly an idea that we've
discussed.
MacCoy: Mr. Mayor may I add something. One of the things to point out to us too
about including the school lands. One of the things we did when we presented this to
you for simplicity we tried to build from one point so all the information tied together.
We cannot calculate school land into the total amount of recreation space available to
our community because we cannot base impact fees upon school land acreage. Also,
on school properties, school activities hold precedence over city activities. We really
cannot count on them as free open space for our citizens to use. For those two
features, we felt we should (inaudible) park system exclusively.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree with the Commission on that. I realize there's times when probably the
middle school gets more use out of youth practices and stuff than any others. On a 24-
hour basis, they are not open to the public so I don't know how you can count it in that
and on this - on the impact fee area, I'm sure we would not be allowed to include it on
that. It's like Western Ada, the land they've got I feel could be included because we as
citizens actually pay a tax on that just like we do our city taxes. I would think and I don't
know whether we can do that but I believe that's the reason that schools should not be
counted. Not that I wouldn't like to see a lot of partnerships and use the schools which
we do use the schools. They are not open to public facilities for 24 hours a day.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Ms. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Not to draw out the conversation on this. Again, it goes back to you have to
have an agreement in place. Secondly, yes you would not be able to use impact fees
but it's the least expensive way to bring your level of service up that I can think of.
Third, when we enter into partnerships with the Lion's with the Kal Rippkin, with PAL or
whatever they would still have first priority use on that so it's not like your public has 24
hours. You're still going to be dealing around scheduling issues just like you are with
the school. It's maximizing that open space and making it usable. It think all of us have
experienced the middle school playground or playing fields and not knowing what
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 17 of 18
direction that balls going to bounce as it rolls down the field. It's pretty frightening. It's
just a point. It's something I would like a little bit stronger emphasis in this plan on and
see how we can maximize that partnership in there.
Corrie: Is there any other testimony that the public would like to (inaudible)? I too want
to say thank you for the wonderful job you guys have done - people, guys, people
excuse me. Keep this non-gender here. You did an excellent job, you've come a long
way, and I think that we're going to be able to do it. You're the one's that's the force
behind it. We can give you all the help that we can. I think there's a lot of people out
there that's behind you all the way too. I think you're going to see a lot more of the
public taking a hold of the information you've given us tonight. I know that Bruce has
got some people that have some other things in mind coming down the pike as well.
MacCoy: Mr. Mayor thank you. What would the Council like to have this Parks
Commission do at this point as far as follow up on this plan?
Corrie: Well, actually we need to accept your parks plans. Then I guess that we'll leave
it up to the Council about how they want to have you proceed. I know that I want you to
proceed but we'll give you some direction after we've approved the plan. I think that's
probably the best way to go. We can all get together and give you that direction.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess there are two things that I had discussed that I would like to see how
we can tie the pathways recommendations from the committee into this plan, have the
Commission kind of look at what it is that they're recommending and see if it can be
easily tied into this. The second thing would be an addendum referring to the
partnership with the schools and maybe even identify just what schools they're kind of
looking at such as Meridian Middle School. We had some correspondence from the
association of realtors and the BCA that I think were answered with the information that
we got here tonight but they haven't received it so I would like to continue this Public
Hearing until the first meeting in April-
Bird: April 2nd.
De Weerd: -- since it is a land use, has land use ramifications, April 2nd. Keep this
Public Hearing open so we can incorporate any recommendations from the Commission
on those specific issues.
Bird: Is that a motion?
De Weerd: Sure.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion made and second. Any discussion? Okay, hearing none, all
those in favor of the motion say aye.
Meridian City Council Special Meeting
March 12, 2002
Page 18 of 18
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. deWeerd.
De Weerd: Again, I would really like to thank you all for the hard work and what a great
presentation, very impressive. There is hope.
Corrie: I never had a fear about that at all.
(inaudible discussion from audience)
De Weerd: Pardon?
(inaudible discussion from audience)
Bird: That's general. Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we close this special City Council meeting.
McCandless: Close the Public Hearing?
Corrie: Okay, I'm going to --. We've already done the continued Public Hearing until
April 2nd. Okay, the motion is made and seconded to close the special meeting. Any
other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Meeting closed at 6:45.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:45 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
/ /
DATE APPROVED
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CitY CLERK