2019-02-21Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting February 21, 2019.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of February 21, 2019, was
called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Acting Chairman Ryan Fitzgerald.
Members Present: Chairman Jessica Perreault, Commissioner Ryan Fitzgerald,
Commissioner Lisa Holland, Commissioner Andrew Seal and Commissioner Reid Olsen.
Members Absent: Commissioner Rhonda McCarvel and Commissioner Bill Cassinelli.
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Andrea Pogue, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Stephanie
Leonard and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance
__X___ Lisa Holland ___X___ Reid Olsen
__X___ Andrew Seal ___X___ Ryan Fitzgerald
______ Rhonda McCarvel _______ Bill Cassinelli
___X___ Jessica Perreault - Chairman
Fitzgerald: Good evening, Ladies and gentlemen. At this time I would like to call to
order the regularly scheduled meeting for the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
on the date of -- what's today? February 21st. Let's begin with roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
Fitzgerald: Thank you, sir. First item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. I don't
believe we have any changes or additions. Can I get a motion to adopt the agenda as
printed?
Perreault: So moved.
Holland: Second.
Fitzgerald: We have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Okay.
Motion passes. Thank you.
MOTION. CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Pine Four-Plex CUP (H-
2018-0135) by Amanda Bidwell, neUdesign Architecture, Located at
645 W. Pine Avenue
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B. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Hill' s Century Farm
Wireless Communication Facility CUP (H-2018-0087) by Horizon
Tower/Verizon Wireless c/o Powder River Development Services,
LLC. Located off the Southeast corner of E. Amity Road and S. Eagle
Road
C. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Excalibur Metal Design ( H-
2019-0139) by Hatch Design Architecture, Located at 1322 E.
Watertower St.
D. Approve Minutes of February 7, 2019 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
Fitzgerald: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda. We have multiple items on
the Consent Agenda. Are there any removals from the Consent Agenda or changes? If
not, can I get a motion?
Olsen: So moved.
Perreault: Second.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to accept the Consent Agenda as printed. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed same. Motion passes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: At this time I would like to give the audience -- and bear with me as my very
able chair is sitting next to me sick, so she's happy to be here, but can't talk and thank
you for letting us delay you guys a little bit. We had a meeting with the full City Council a
little bit before this and we were just taking a break in between. So, I appreciate your
letting us take a little break in between. At this time we will open each item individually
and start with a staff report in regards to how the application a d here s to our
Comprehensive Plan and Uniform Development Code with staff recommendations. After
the staff has made their presentation the applicant will come forward to present their case
for the approval of their application, responding to staff comments. The applicant will
have 15 minutes to do so. After the applicant is finished we will open to public -- to public
testimony. There is a sign-up sheet -- actually, it's -- it's a tablet now, so if you would like
to testify, please, make sure you sign up for the application on the tablets in the back and
we will go down the list and make sure everybody has a chance to testify. Any person
who wants to testify will come forward and have three minutes and wish to do so. If
you're speaking in behalf of a larger group or an HOA and there is a show of hands on
who they will be speaking for, they will be given ten minutes to speak on behalf of the
HOA. After all testimony has been heard by the -- the applicant will have an option to
come forward and close the testimony and have ten minutes to do so on that, to close
the discussion. After that we will close the public hearing and the Commissioners will
have a chance to discuss and, hopefully, make a recommendation or a decision on the
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application.
Item 4: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Harvest Church Preschool (H- 2019-0007) by
Church of the Harvest, Located at 831 W. Main St.
1. Request: a Conditional Use Permit for a daycare center
on 0. 83 acres of land in the 0-T zoning district
Fitzgerald: So, at this time we will turn to the staff and open the public hearing for -- and
I'm looking for -- H-2019-0007, the public hearing for Harvest Church Preschool and we
will start with a staff report. Stephanie, it's all you.
Leonard: Thank you, Mr. Acting Chair and Members of the Commission. The first project
before you this evening is for a conditional use permit. The site consists of 0.83 acres of
land that's zoned OT, Old Town, and is located at 831 North Main Street. To the north is
East Pine Avenue and commercial or -- and retail space zoned Old Town. To the south
is retail and restaurant, zoned Old Town, and to the east is North Main Street and retail
and commercial space, zoned Old Town. And to the west are residential properties, which
are also zoned Old Town. In 2018 the site received CZC approval for group daycare,
which allows for up to 12 children. The applicant is requesting a CUP to operate a
daycare center for up to 60 children in the existing church building. The daycare center
is proposed to operate with three staggered class times. The first class time starts at
8:30, the second at 11:00 and the third at 3:30. Classes are set to finish at 6:00 p.m. The
staggered class start times should help to alleviate site congestion and allow for more
parking opportunities. However, staff does recommend the applicant provide further
information regarding the enrollment for each of those staggered class times to further
assess what their parking and circulation needs are adequate. There are 46 existing
parking sites on site, which exceed the UDC standards for Old Town. However, the UDC
does allow the Commission to require more restrictive standards in analyzing a
conditional use. If the Commission determines the dirt lot to the south to be used as an
extra parking -- or as an extra space for parking -- so, this site here -- the applicant shall
improve the lot in accord with UDC standards and a cross-access shall be provided to
adjacent properties. If approved the applicant shall amend the existing CZC to establish
the new daycare center use and if Commission does require the improvements for
parking, they will also need to submit a design review application to be reviewed by staff.
No written testimony was received on this project. Staff is recommending approval with
the conditions in the report and will stand for any questions .
Fitzgerald: Are there any questions for staff? Thank you. Would the applicant like to
come forward. Please state your name and your address for the record, sir, ma'am.
Butterworth: Ben Butterworth. Address is 3128 South Gunnel Avenue. That's in
Meridian, Idaho.
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Richter: Joanne Richter. 2301 Lower Bluff Road, Emmett, Idaho.
Butterworth: First of all, thank you for hearing us on this conditional use permit and one
of the reasons we actually initially started launching this, just so the commission team
here is aware, is because of the need for the preschools in our community. We actually
-- it was started out of us trying to meet a need in our city and going through and we read
an article that listed how there were wait times for preschool age children and up to a year
in advance sometimes to -- in order to get into preschools and so we as a church decided
that what we wanted to do is meet a need in our community, so we started with that, got
our approval for the CZC as you heard earlier and at this point it has grown to the point
where we are -- with the exception of a few times slots, are at capacity. So, we would
like to extend this to meet the need in our community. We keep our -- our fees to a very
minimum just to pay our staff. W e actually don't pay to the church any sort of rentals at
this point, just because we are trying to make it an area to meet a need in the community
and our teachers and our staff are very qualified, very wonderful people who really should
be getting paid a whole lot more, but they have decided to help us out. So, to address
the one question that was brought up before the recommendation is the parking situation.
We are not a hundred percent sure where it will land as far as which time slots will be the
most -- in the most demand and so it is hard to say, because we do not have a baseline
of which to base, you know, which ones will be the highest demand areas. The morning
tends to be a little bit more in demand, but other than that it is just something where as
it's staggered, especially for pick up times, it is -- we haven't had any sort of issues at this
point and also we do not have any plans, but one of the comments that was listed in the
application was that we may develop the dirt lot. We have no plans to develop that dirt
lot for parking at this time. We would not be using that for parking for parents or staff,
because it is a dirt lot and does not meet with city codes. Other than that, we are just
thankful for your time and we would really appreciate your thoughtfulness on this. Okay.
And Joanne doesn't want to say anything.
Fitzgerald: Does the Commission have any questions for the applicant?
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Do you have an outside area for the children to play in and can you -- excuse
my voice. I'm so sorry. Can you share with us more about -- is this going to be an
educational daycare or is it just, you know, can you elaborate on that?
Butterworth: Yeah. Absolutely. At this point we do not have an outside play area. It is
more scholastic based. We do have some indoor areas that we use for play. Well lit.
Open windows to help with the lighting. In our upper -- what we call chapel area. It's on
the plans as you would see in -- that's listed there and it is a very educational program
and is not -- we had a hard time trying to figure out what we were actually supposed to
apply for, because it is not -- we don't see it as a daycare, it is a preschool. It is a -- we
use Abeka curriculum as our base and it is a very wonderful, great curriculum based that
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-- oh, actually one of the parents here wants to testify on it a little bit later and just say
how great they love our preschool and so it is very educational and -- yeah. The only --
the -- the biggest caveat for us that was requiring this -- so it was not seen as a as --
what's the word I'm looking for? A religious education as well, is because we were offering
it to three year olds instead of four year olds. Otherwise, the state law did not require that
we work with Idaho STARS, but because we wanted to work with three year olds as well
to open that up for the community, we decided to go that route.
Perreault: Mr. Chairman, I have one more question.
Fitzgerald: Follow up?
Perreault: Will -- will any of the -- will any of the children be there the entire day or is each
child limited to a three hour time period and are you going to set limits for each of those
blocks of how many can be there at a time?
Butterworth: Yeah. So, the -- some children are there all day, based on the need for it.
The -- the best scholastic time really is in the morning time and -- and, then, it's the options
of the -- how long they really want them to stay. So, it -- it does come down to the 8:30,
11:30 and 3:30 time slots. We have it set as a -- as a 6:00 p.m. time slot, more so just
for the parents that have the -- the high need for that, but very few have chosen that at
this point.
Seal: Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: Just a quick question on the pick up and drop off. Is there a procedure in place
where you have staff members out to receive the cars or is it more just we are going to
park and bring the kids in?
Butterworth: Yeah. At this point we have the crosswalks that are set up, cones set up,
reserved parking signs, because we want to make it very clear and very available . We
have put out the child safety flags at this point. As it grows we will have staff members
out there, but with 12 children at this point it's not a very high need . W e do lock the doors
after 9:15 every morning just for security purposes and, then, our number is posted so
they can call and have a staff member come and unlock it after that.
Seal: How many children are you looking at in order to have something in place for the
direction? And the reason I ask is, you know, being a parent myself and having to go
through this, sometimes -- especially in the downtown area like this, traffic congestion can
be a really big deal.
Butterworth: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. We would probably be looking at -- I would say about
-- about 20 kids and that's where we would be at.
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Seal: Okay. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, just one clarification. Sixty kids total, not 60 kids at
a time, or is it 60 kids at a -- per class period.
Butterfield: Well, that's a great question. It depends on what's actually a llotted in there.
The way it -- I read it as -- according to the law is 60 kids at a time is the way I read that.
But if that's not correct I would appreciate the Council telling me that.
Holland: I'm looking at staff, because it looks like they have got --
Fitzgerald: Stephanie, do you want to clarify?
Leonard: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I believe our code -- maybe Bill
can correct me if I'm incorrect, but our code does say that we need to state the maximum
number of students allowed, so that we can approve that number here. So, if you're
thinking it's going to be 180 compared to 60, that's a difference that we would need to
discuss and --
Parson: Yeah. Commission, I think the intent behind the code on that particular
requirement is -- I don't anticipate them having 120 -- 120 kids there all at one time. As
Stephanie said in her presentation to you, it's staggered. But, yes, our code does require
that you deliberate on the number of children for that facility . But I also want to preface
that the building code will also dictate as to the number of children that can be in that
facility at one time. So, there is a couple things working against them on this, but certainly
if you're comfortable with that number, I think we want something in the conditions of
approval either say as allowed by building code maybe the more flexible route to go , but
if you're -- you're comfortable -- I'm not sure if -- if your curriculum says no more than 30
children -- what is it per class for those time frames, if you would elaborate on that a little
bit more.
Butterfield: Well, due to the class sizes it's about -- no more than 18 kids per class, but
we have multiple rooms. The other thing is because it is a preschool it's not a -- typically
a Monday through Friday -- most parents don't want their kids coming five days a week
is what we are finding. There is some that do, because their kids are very -- at that age
class driven and they thrive in that -- that kind of environment, but there is a lot of kids
that find they just do better at three days a week. So, when you limit to the 60 kids total
students, what you're doing is you're -- you're really saying about 30 at a time. So, that's
kind of where that lands, because some parents are going to want two, some parents are
going to want three. So, we built it to meet the parents' needs and fit the -- the community
need there.
Holland: Mr. Chair?
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Fitzgerald: Follow up?
Holland: Follow up question. So, is the daycare just running Monday through Friday for
the most part or are there weekends, too?
Butterfield: No weekends.
Holland: Okay. And one more question, too. During the week, obviously, the church
isn't doing services on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, but are there other purposes
happening throughout the church building on the same days that you're doing the
preschool?
Butterfield: Yes. So, they are -- actually Joanne would be the best one to answer that.
Richter: So, right now we have mainly the women's Bible study, which is on Friday
morning and we do have a prayer meeting that's on Tuesday morning, but it is over by
7:00. Some people are still around, but if your question is concerning availability for
parking, we have that already sorted out with our 40 some parking spots. So, it actually
works really well in the way we have it right now it works -- we have got plenty of parking.
Holland: Okay. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Any additional questions?
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Staff had mentioned in their staff report a parking lot that is not currently paved
that may provide additional parking. Can you comment to their suggestion on that and
what your thoughts are?
Butterfield: Yeah. Earlier I did mention that we do not have any plans to do anything with
that gravel parking lot -- or that -- it's not actually a parking lot, it's a gravel lot is what it
is. So, we are not planning on using that for any sort of parking.
Perreault: If it's in the Commission's desire to do so, is the church open to --- or is the --
are you guys open to that consideration?
Richter: We don't have the funds to do anything with that lot and I think sometimes it gets
called a parking lot, because a lot of downtown people will park there and go eat at a
restaurant or different things like that. But right now you could propose what you want
and, then, we could go back to our table and see what we could do. But right now as of
today we probably aren't sure what we -- I don't know. That's a big question. It's a lot of
money.
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Fitzgerald: Do you own that property?
Richter: Yes, we do.
Fitzgerald: Okay. That's a whole different discussion. Okay. Any additional questions?
Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Butterfield: Thank you.
Richter: Thank you.
Pogue: Mr. Chair, I would just point out that in UDC 11-4-3-9 under daycare facility,
Section A-1 states that in determining the type of daycare facility, which includes daycare
center, the total number of children at the facility at one time, including the operator 's
children, is the determining factor.
Fitzgerald: It can be staggered. Thank you. Chris, do we have public testimony?
Johnson: Mr. Chair, there is one person signed in and I apologize if I'm mispronouncing.
Lily Mulyar.
Fitzgerald: Ma'am, thank you for being here tonight. Please give us your name and your
address for the record, please.
Mulyar: Lily Mulyar. 584 East Chateau Drive, Meridian. I'm sorry, I get so nervous public
speaking.
Fitzgerald: We will take care of you. Don't worry.
Mulyar: Thank you. Try to remind myself it's only you guys that I see. I have a daughter
and she's a very strong willed daughter that we have and so she's -- she was three and
a half when we started -- almost four and we were looking for an option for school. She's
very smart, very intelligent, and really all we found was that Abeka program that would
work really well for us personally and my sister does it for her kids, but there is nothing
locally that I could, you know, take her to and that she could have somebody teaching her
and I just couldn't see her sitting in front of a computer listening to a teacher with how
strong willed she is and we actually heard about this opportunity and that it's flexible and
it was just a huge blessing to us, because I have two kids with disabilities and -- sorry.
And I take them to therapy five days a week and for me it's a very big blessing to drop off
Isabel, so she can learn and improve and to be taught by somebody which I -- I don't
know that I would have the time to do myself and she has thrived so much. She -- the
educational part that they offer, our daughter went from knowing all her uppercase ABCs
-- she's actually a beginner reader and this has been since September. It's been a very
huge blessing for us, because she has learned so much. They are really good with
discipline. She follows the rules. They follow through and they are very consistent and
they are very kind and loving and I mean I have only amazing things to say about their
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teachers. Their teachers are just so good. Their teachers just think outside the box,
depending on which child it is. You know, our Isabel is just very smart, but she -- she is
quick -- quick to catch on, but she will fight you. But the teachers always follow through
and she learned that what they say goes and she follows the ir directions and she is --
does all her homework and she has learned so much and just a quick example is her
teacher was so smart, she said I'm going to give you homework to actually not go to your
parents' bedroom. In four years she's always coming at night and we are telling her not
to and that -- just because how much she listens and respects her teacher, she actually
listened to that and she has no longer come to our bedroom since October or September
it was and -- I mean -- and just on the standpoint of Isabel moving forward, she's already
a beginner reader. So, for us it would be really nice if they could expand and give her the
opportunity to go next year to a higher skill class group , because if she -- if I just put her
in a regular daycare, because she's -- yeah, she won't be five until November, then, you
know, it's -- I feel like I'm going to actually hold her back by not letting her have the
opportunity to get into a slightly higher educational point , if that makes sense. And so for
us this would be huge. I have three, maybe four nephews that are planning -- my sisters
are planning to put into the school. So, just that alone is going to increase their number.
I can rave about the school. My sisters have all seen the difference. Our daughter is so
much better discipline wise and her knowledge and how much she 's soaked in has
improved so much that all my family sees the difference , so -- I mean I drop her off five
days a week and with my children, you know, with disabilities they have disabled parking
and they always have the cones and, you know, marked spots, so I have never had to
like search for a parking spot or anything, I just park right at the beginning right by the
door. So, it's really easy in and out and it's just -- I really hope that they could expand
and give me the opportunity. Otherwise, I just have to home school her with the -- Abeka
program myself and it will be really hard for me, so --
Fitzgerald: We appreciate you being here, ma'am. Thank you very much for your
comments.
Mulyar: Sorry I'm such a crybaby when I'm nervous.
Fitzgerald: We appreciate your passion and your -- is there anyone else in the audience
who would like to testify on this application? Would the applicant like to come and close
the discussion or do you guys have anything else to add ?
Olsen: I do have a question of the applicant.
Fitzgerald: Okay. Ma'am, please, state your name and address for the record please.
Bryan: I'm Diane Bryan. 2183 West Santa Clara Drive, Meridian, Idaho. And I'm like --
my husband and I pastor the church over there, but my daughter's adopting a little child.
After two little children from the foster care system and this little child has been very
incorrigible and the woman that's there -- we have a couple women there that are just
outstanding, brilliant, smart, know how to capture the most needy child and bring them
into a really happy environment and I just want to say personally just as a grandma what
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I'm seeing with my grand -- my granddaughter to be -- we are going to adopt -- I think
they are going to adopt in a few months -- just the change and she's been in the program
for three weeks and I feel like it's a great program. So, many parents don't know what to
do with their children, they are kind of lost and they want to keep them near and keep
them at home, but, you know, it's pretty tough and pretty hard when you don't know what
to do and we have these women that have had years of experience , they are educators
and they have decided to come back down from their higher education to work with little
children. Really cool program. I'm happy. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am. Would the applicant like come back. We have a real
quick question for you, sir. Commissioner Olsen, go right ahead, sir.
Olsen: So, you're an existing program and you're expanding to take in four year olds?
Butterfield: So, we currently take three and four year olds, because that's the standa rd
preschool age in our education system and we would like to expand that. Right now we
are capped at 12. One of the comments you heard earlier was expanding to another level
of preschool education is essentially what we are looking at. So, like a pre-K kind of
situation. But it still fits under that same umbrella.
Olsen: I see. Okay. Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I apologize. Going back to the parking questions. The necessity for that as a
Commission is that our role is to make sure that the community -- that we both meet the
needs of the applicant, but that the community is also not affected -- affected in a -- in a
negative way and so what would you say are the amount of vehicles for church staff,
volunteers, individuals visiting the church and teachers, parents, that may be there
helping, volunteering, what's the overall number of vehicles that are there during the day
that are not parents dropping their children off?
Butterfield: You know, that's actually a good question. Joanne, can I get you to answer
that for me, please?
Richter: We use about ten parking spots for staff and we do have a Bible college at the
church, which operates from early in the morning until 12:00 o'clock and so we have some
student parking in our west parking lot and they are -- they have to park over there and
walk, because we keep our main parking lot -- or larger parking lot open for the preschool
and we -- like Ben had said earlier, we have signs out there that -- that's reserved parking
for the preschool. So, that gives us plenty of parking for parents coming to drop off their
children or pick them up and we can extend that if we need to and right now it's working
out great.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
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Fitzgerald: Follow up?
Perreault: Do you typically have siblings that are coming together where there might be
two or three -- or I guess they probably don't have three -- three five year olds. But where
there might be two that are coming together? I mean where you're not having to --
Butterfield: Yeah. We do have some that are coming in as multiples or --
Perreault: Multiples or --
Butterfield: Yeah. Uh-huh.
Perreault: Okay.
Fitzgerald: Any additional questions for the applicant?
Butterfield: If I can also go back to your statement. Also some of the staff that come to
the church that she mentioned, the ten, they also enroll their children as well. So , that
helps alleviate some of that.
Perreault: Okay.
Richter: And we have a lot of part-time staff, so they come and go throughout the week.
So, it's not like consistent every day. So, the parking needs can change a little bit. Yeah.
Perreault: Thank you very much.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much.
Richter: Anything else?
Fitzgerald: I think we are good. Thank you. Could I get a motion to close the public
hearing on this application.
Perreault: So moved.
Holland: Second.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on H-2019-0007,
Harvest Church preschool. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Commission, it is properly before you. Any comments?
Holland: Mr. Chair?
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Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland, go for it.
Holland: I will go first. Everyone wants the silence. My first comment is I really like when
churches can use their space besides just on Sundays, because I always hate seeing an
empty building just sit empty. I think having a preschool center makes a lot of sense for
this facility. There is definitely a need for more preschool facilities throughout the valley.
There is a lot of -- a lot of kids in our region that need education and need opportunities,
so as far as the function I think it sounds like a good fit for a conditional use permit. I don't
have a lot of concerns with parking, because I know on Sundays a building like that
houses many more people than they are looking at for the Monday through Friday. If
you're looking at real parking issues, it would probably be more for the Sunday events
than anything else. You know, I have walked through this building in the past. Attending
at one point. They have got a lot of great classrooms in there and I mean you can see
that on the floor plans that they have submitted, too. There is a lot of space to spread out
and I think it -- it looks like a good fit to me. That's first comments.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner No Voice, would you like to say something? Madam Chair,
would you like to speak?
Perreault: Again, I appreciate everybody forgiving my voice this evening. This is -- I
mean we have heard a daycare and early education application for this one is un ique,
because typically they have their own building space and so you have the multiplicity of
uses happening in one building and people coming and going. So, this is -- in that -- in
that there is multiple uses happening in the same building, even though it is much larger
than a daycare would be. I think that's what makes it a unique decision. For the most
part it sounds like the applicant has already thought through how the vehicles are going
to move, who is going to be on site, security issues. They are already running the daycare
-- I don't like calling you a daycare. Early education center. Because there is a difference.
It sounds like they have already thought that through and, then, they are not necessarily
going to take it from currently 12 students to 60. I think that was the main concern is that
you're not doing this for the student jump job at one time and so it sounds like that they
will -- they will appropriately staff and adjust things as necessary as they bring on new
students. So, that -- all that to say I'm in agreement with the staff's recommendation.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal or Commissioner Olsen, do you have --
Olsen: I believe this is a good application. I don't think -- I see no problem with it.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, any comments?
Seal: I would agree and I appreciate the educational factor , too, and not just a daycare,
the fact that there is actually a curriculum to follow and -- and you brought people in that
actually are testifying as to the effectiveness of it.
Fitzgerald: And I would agree. I -- obviously you're doing something exceptional with
that family behind you, so kudos to you guys. I -- as you grow and look to -- I -- I would
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love to see something that's outside. That's just -- I'm a -- get kids outside and let them
play kind of thing. So, I would love to see something -- if you guys -- as you grow would
love to see that -- something in the future, whether that's taking them to a park or
something like that, but I -- I think this is a good move for the city, so --
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: One more additional comment I just want to make, too, is because this is in our
business district in the downtown area, the one nice thing is that when you have more
people coming to a facility in the downtown, dropping the kids off for a couple of hours or
three or four hours, they might be going to a restaurant in the downtown , they might be
going to walk around. So, it drives economic development a little bit as well. Just another
comment to make.
Fitzgerald: Great point.
Holland: Just to make sure after the consensus of the Commission -- I don't think there
were any concerns with anyone here about having the 60 kids at a time. Was there
anything we need to stipulate about that or would you be comfortable with a motion that
has wording in there about 60 kids at a time or as allowed by the building code?
Perreault: Mr. Chair, can I ask a clarifying question?
Fitzgerald: Absolutely. Go right ahead.
Perreault: To staff. Was that -- was the 60 children request made by the applicant or
was that something that the staff had -- had recommended as a maximum or how did that
number come about?
Leonard: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the applicant had indicated that
they wanted to do 60 kids maximum and our code does state that it needs to be a
maximum number of clients. It reads: The applicant shall not exceed the maximum
number of clients as stated the improved permit or as stated in this title, whichever is
more restrictive. So, a number would be great. And, additionally, if you would -- if you're
not wanting to require the parking lot, we will need to strike that from the conditions in the
staff report.
Fitzgerald: That was my --
Leonard: So, just make sure you mention that in your motion.
Parsons: Madam -- Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, just to provide comment
on my previous testimony on -- on the requirements. So, even though this -- you may --
the Commission may say 120 maximum or 60 students maximum -- maximum, if the
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building code comes back and it's more restrictive, they are going to be capped to that
number. So, that's -- that's the point I wanted to make here . It's not -- that's why it's
important that we have a maximum number. But, again, if it -- if your number is greater
than what the building code allows, they are going to be capped at what the building code
allows. Just clarification on that for the record.
Fitzgerald: And, Commissioner Holland, I think your motion to that point -- I think per
Andrea's comments before, I think that having the building code stated in there would
probably be a good thing and I don't have a need to refer a parking lot. I'm not sure what
everybody else's comments or thoughts are for the paving of that parking lot -- or the dirt
lot.
Seal: Mr. Chair, if I --
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: If I could ask Mr. Parsons. Do we know what the maximum capacity would be for
an educational facility like this?
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I don't. I don't. It's going to be
dependent on the space and the age of the kids. There is a lot of factors in the building
code that kind of dictates what happens in that space.
Seal: And the reason I ask is because we have the -- the dirt lot in question where as the
facility would grow we would probably want to see something in terms of more parking
space or, you know, an outdoor facility for the children to play in.
Perreault: Mr. Chair, I don't --
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: -- think we as a Commission specifically need to require the paving of that, but
would recommend highly to the applicant that -- that that be kept in mind and I totally
agree an outdoor play area would be excellent. I know if you construct that on that, then,
that limits parking for your other services. So, that's -- that's the -- the -- I'm sure the
concern primarily. But I don't -- I don't think that as a Commission we need to require
them to pave that -- or ask that.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland, did you have a thought or a motion?
Holland: Mr. Chair, I'm happy to make a motion, unless there is other further deliberation
we need to make.
Fitzgerald: Motions are always in order.
Holland: All right.
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Fitzgerald: Go forth.
Holland: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to -- and we
are not actually recommending this to -- sorry.
Pogue: That is correct.
Holland: We are just approving the conditional use permit; correct?
Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am.
Holland: Okay. So, after considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to
approve the conditional use permit for Harvest Church Preschool, file No. H-2019-0007,
as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of February 21st, 2019, with the
following modifications: That we would strike the condition in the staff report of requiring
the parking lot to be paved and that we would limit the use to 60 kids at a time or maxed
out at what is allowable by building code.
Perreault: Second that motion.
Fitzgerald: Have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same.
Motion passes. Congratulations. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Olsen. You are absolutely -- Commissioner Olsen needs to
leave and so we appreciate your being here for the time you could be, sir.
Olsen: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: We will see you next time.
Olsen: Okay.
B. Public Hearing for Real Life Church ( H- 2019-0004) by Real Life
Church, Located 1098 N. Hickory Ave.
1. Request: A Conditional Use Permit for a church and ancillary
daycare center on 0.68 acres of land in the I-L zoning district
Fitzgerald: Okay. At this time I will open the public hearing on H-2019-0004, Real Life
Church, and we will start with the staff report.
Leonard: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission. The next project before
you is for a conditional use permit for a church and an ancillary daycare. The site consists
of 0.68 acres of land. It's zoned I-L and is located at 1098 North Hickory Avenue. To the
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north is an auction facility, zoned I-L. To the south is undeveloped land and office space
zoned I-L. To the east are offices and it's also zoned I-L. And to the west is North Hickory
Avenue and undeveloped land, which is also zoned I-L. In 1982 as part of the Upland
Industries project, this property was annexed as part of a large area of land that was
annexed. A preliminary plat and final plat for Treasure Valley Business Center was
processed in 1984 as well and a planned development was processed in 1991 that
categorized this and other land as I-L, but also able to develop into residential, retail,
commercial or industrial land. A CUP is being requested to use the existing 7,500 square
foot building as a church and daycare center as required in the I-L zoning district. This
property is subject to the planned development agreement that I just spoke of, which
allows them a mix of uses. The applicant is requesting to operate a church with t wo
Sunday services between 8:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Attendance at their current location is
about 100 adults and 50 children. They plan to accommodate more people at the
proposed location. The daycare is proposed to accommodate 54 students Monday
through Friday, between the hours of 9:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. There are currently 31
parking spaces available on the site, which exceeds the UDC standards for the I-L zoning
district. However, due to the number of projected parishioners and daycare students, the
director has approved an alternate compliance request to allow for parking standard
alternatives. One of those proposed alternatives includes shared parking agreements
with two properties to the north of the subject site. The applicant is currently -- those are
depicted here to the north. The applicant is currently discussing an app -- or an
agreement with this property to the south. They are finalizing kind of the wording with
that. The applicant has also worked with ACHD to allow for on-street parking along
Hickory Avenue throughout the weekends. The parking agreements do provide an
opportunity to accommodate parking needs for church -related traffic on Sundays. The
staff is concerned that church and daycare members may park in unimproved areas out
of convenience, which could create code enforcement issues and a nuisance to
surrounding properties. Since the church's hours of use occur on Sunday mornings, extra
parking required for that use may not interfere with the parking needs of surrounding
properties, which would help to mitigate congestion and parking issues. As parking needs
for the daycare can be staggered, the impact on surrounding properties might also be
mitigated. However, we do feel that a permanent solution to parking would be preferred,
since the shared parking agreements can be canceled by either party at anytime and are
only applicable during the weekend hours and onsite parking would be more readily
available, if -- if they could figure something else out. Staff was under the impression that
the same entity would own the subject property, as well as the property to the south and
so recommended this lot to the south be improved and paved. However, the applicant
actually intends to just purchase the property, the subject property that is depicted here
and so the -- the property -- or the property to the south wouldn't -- may not be an option
for permanent pavement or expansion of parking options. Written testimony was received
from Jim Boyd, who is concerned with the amount of on-site parking provided for the
proposed church use and daycare use. Staff is recommending approval with the
conditions in the staff report and will stand for any questions.
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Fitzgerald: Any questions for staff? Thank you, Stephanie. Would the applicant like to
come forward. Please give us your name and your addresses for the record, please. Or
names and addresses.
McNulty: Matt McNulty with neUdesign Architecture. 725 East 2nd Street in Meridian,
Idaho.
Jordan: I'm Justin Jordan, the lead pastor. 35 East Fairview, Meridian, Idaho.
McNulty: So, new to -- Madam Commissioner -- or Madam Chair and Commissioners,
Justin is the pastor and I brought him up here to help with any of the particular questions
that came up in the previous session. So, just kind of little background. Real Life
Ministries, they launched in 2008 with a focus to reach the world for Jesus one person at
a time. They have leased various facilities throughout the Treasure Valley and at this
time we are taking a step to establish a more permanent home at the present facility and,
hence, the CUP at this time. So, there are two sessions for church on Sabbath -- or on
Sundays with a forecast of growth of about 120 adults with children that -- that come with
them and just to clarify, the daycare is not a daycare, they are also seeking a preschool
setting, which we feel would be a benefit to the surrounding area for those that work there,
as well as the future developments that are relatively close to the current property of
single family and multi-family dwellings. So, just trying to be a good member . Real Life
Church has reached out to various community neighboring parcels to alleviate parking
concerns and have established the additional parking a greements, which total up to 48
between the two property -- the two properties, which, again, are only four Sundays. As
the staff has mentioned, they have worked with ACHD to adjust the current sign language
or parking on Hickory for the weekends only. Both the daycare times, which run from
9:30, until noon, and, then, there is a break in between that session and the following
session, which is at 1:00 o'clock until 3:30 and both Sunday services we fill our lot. At
times that traffic is very light in the surrounding area, but it also provides a benefit, again,
right to those individuals. And as far as students for the preschool program, there are
multiple programs. The individuals can be in the morning or the afternoon of both, but
there is that break in between the two sessions that an adult have to arrange , you know,
some sort of alternative time for -- for that hour. Currently they are -- they are looking at
two teachers and two classrooms and, then, about 16 three year olds and about 18 four
year olds. With the future to, you know, grow into that about -- 54 number that was
mentioned previously by the staff. There are currently no plans for external playgrounds
or anything of the nature. However, right as things grow, you know, that could be explored
as -- you know, that is a benefit to children. As was mentioned, the church only has
funding to purchase the current property and the 31 finished parking installs. So, that's
because -- I guess I will end there and open it up for questions.
Fitzgerald: Are there questions of the applicant? Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Chair, so I'm curious, the staff report says that you currently have about a
hundred adults and 50 children that she mentioned and -- but the capacity would be about
200. That only allows for 50 more. Is that going to work long term? And I'm just curious
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about that, because I'm wondering about your lease agreements with the parking and
whether those are annual or -- if you're buying the building I assume you intend to be
there for a long time, so how does that play into these arrangements with the parking and,
then, your growth and how does all that tie together?
Jordan: Go ahead and answer?
McNulty: Yeah.
Jordan: So, in sitting down with the businesses to the north and the one in the south ,
there is 30 parking spots where we have currently, the one on the south I believe has 25
and they have allotted another 30 to the north from reading public auction and, then,
Diamond Line deliveries offered 20. So, total 30, 25, 55 -- it would 85 and another --
about 105 parking spots, not including, obviously, parking on the street with ACHD as
well, so -- so, that would be the total amount of parking spots that we would try and utilize.
When it comes to those agreements I have sat down with each of the business owners
and asked them about that in regards term and they -- each of them said I'm going to
partner with you on this, but I need to be able to protect my asset and my private property
as well and so any moment I want to cancel the agreement, I want to be able to do that
and I said, okay, I understand that. So, to the best of my ability to create a partnership
agreement with them, but they also said a t any moment if they wanted to step out, that
they need to have that ability, so --
Perreault: And has the church considered a contingency plan if that happens or what
conversation has been had in that regard?
Jordan: Yeah. I mean the next step would be to -- if -- if any of that were to happen, then,
we would have to go back to the drawing board of talking to other businesses in the area
and say, hey, we have had a good relationship with these other businesses , but is there
a way for us to partner potentially in using park -- parking in other spots as well, so --
other than that I don't have a -- don't have a plan other than that for right now.
Perreault: One more question. Has there been any conversation that -- I apologize if you
already mentioned this. Has there been any conversation with the -- the owner -- the
same owner to the -- to the parcel to the south about the church acquiring that piece and
using that for the church's purposes or --
Jordan: The property to the south?
Perreault: The property to the south.
Jordan: And seeing if we can use their land or buy their land?
Perreault: Or at least lease it, although it's my understanding that that would need to be
paved in order to do that, but I would assume that at some point there will be another
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building that will be put in there and that paving would be used. Has there been
conversation with the owner?
Jordan: We haven't had any conversations in regards to using that land yet, but I -- I have
reached out to our realtor to figure out there is a shared use access -- shared access
when it comes to there being parking there in the future and I haven't heard back yet from
him on that. That just recently came up yesterday, so --
Perreault: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Additional questions for the applicant?
Seal: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: I guess the -- can you give us a little more information on the -- the modifications
to the street signs that you have worked with ACHD on and exactly what -- what was
accomplished and, you know, what do they say, how are you trying to steer traffic?
McNulty: Yeah. So, currently the street signs on Hickory state that there is no parking at
any time. The new modified -- modified sign is for weekends only. So, it allows for
weekend only parking and, then, weekdays there is no parking allowed on that street.
Jordan: Okay. Can I also just clarify that there is no parking just in the front of the building
that we are purchasing, because the business that was there was a Century Pediatric
business that didn't want loud vehicle noises in front of their business and so just in front
of the property there is no parking, but to the north of the business and to the south there
is street parking that's available right now. So, they would be changing it to parking
allowed in front of -- from my understanding in front of our -- our building for -- for
Sundays --
Seal: To the north of the building?
Jordan: To the north of the building as well, yeah.
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: My question -- just -- I am curious to -- to know why the area that's around this
site is very industrial in nature. I don't know if that causes any concerns h aving a daycare
facility next to a lot of, you know, different industrial companies out there , but I don't know
if you would be willing to share any thoughts about why you kind of looked at this area in
an industrial area, instead of maybe another commercial area in town.
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Jordan: You know, we have looked -- we looked at different places for about a year and
the reality is is we are on a budget and there isn't a lot of commercial buildings that are
available within our budget and so this was the one that met our budget, but also we have
a desire to stay in Meridian, too. We feel called to be in Meridian and so with our budget
the buildings that are available and staying in Meridian, this was one of the only ones that
we know of at the time that were available and that could actually work for us. We looked
at one other building here in Old Town, but it wasn't cost effective for us to actually look
at remodeling it and use -- allowing it to be used for our use, so --
Fitzgerald: Additional questions?
Seal: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: The modifications that were done to the signage to allow for parking to be there on
the weekend is things -- is that something that's permanent or is that something that they
are doing just for now? I mean -- and the reason I ask is because as things develop
around there there could be other businesses, obviously, that go in there that have a lot
of weekend traffic as well.
McNulty: At this time and it is permanent. However, things -- things could change in the
future, but the agreement between ACHD and the church is that they will be paying to
replace the signs for the new verbiage, so --
Seal: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: How do you all intend to manage people parking on -- I mean that you have
got a bunch of vacant land around there and I think code enforcement for the city is a very
important thing, how do you plan to -- to manage that?
Jordan: For right now I went and looked at the property a couple times for where the
parking lot is paved, there is a -- there is a cement barrier that if someone wanted to drive
over top of it I guess they could if they wanted to, but there is a cement barrier that's
actually prohibiting people from going into that vacant dirt lot and so, obviously, if we see
our members -- if we were to purchase the building doing that, it -- we would be enforcing
saying you can -- that's private property, you can't -- you can't utilize that property, so --
Fitzgerald: I think my concern would probably be the bar across the street, but that's -- I
mean similar situation.
Jordan: Yeah.
Fitzgerald: Any additional comments or questions? Thank you very much. We
appreciate it. Chris, do we have people signed up to testify?
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Johnson: Yes, Mr. Chair. First is James Boyd.
Fitzgerald: Mr. Boyd, you want to come forward and, please, give us your name and your
address for the record, please, sir.
Boyd: My name is James Boyd. Reside at 7103 North Spurwing Rim Place, Meridian,
Idaho and I'm the guy that wrote a letter in and you probably have read my letter so I
won't try to repeat it, but I -- for the record I will state that I -- I'm not opposed to the church
occupying the facility. What I am opposed to is the church occupying -- not meeting the
parking standards for -- that are -- that are needed for -- for -- for the facility and I realize
that they have got some -- some parking off site and I look at a map and see how far
people have to walk to -- to get to the church and knowing that most of us, including
myself, want to park as close we can to the front door, I think that it's -- it's going to be --
especially this time of the year a tough one get people to walk that far and one thing you
brought out is they are industrial properties and the first property to the north, the photo
you see is -- it looks like an empty parking lot -- big, big lot, but you didn't buy it recently,
it's an auction facility, it's all -- all fenced and gated and I'm sure they probably have a
plan. You would have to ask them what the plan is, but when you look at it I don't see
parking. It's just jam full of product for -- for sale or for auction and, then, private property
on further to the north of the trucking facility, I don't know if it operates just Monday to
Friday, most -- I don't know, but if it's a 24 hour facility, weekends, trucks coming and
going -- most truckers run weekends, then, you got trucks coming in and out of there and
you got kids and all that parking going to church, you got is a safety problem and so that's
my -- my thought and I know some of the other parking lots around that they have asked,
you know, that people aren't willing to -- to sign an appropriate long-term parking
arrangement and it sounds like maybe these folks aren't either. So, if you don't have a
long-term agreement, you don't really have much of anything. So , bottom line I just think
other businesses, other churches in the community have been the community for a long
time and, you know, every city has parking requirements and there is a purpose for that,
you know, so you can handle the parking and -- so, like I say, while I don't have a problem
with the church, but I think just an underside -- undersized facility for where it -- I would
think they would want to grow to and meet the parking, unless they want to acquire land
to do that and I'm sure -- also I guess one of my other thoughts in my mind I -- they state
that they are strictly a Sunday morning church. The church I attend and some of the
others, you know, they usually have, you know, women's Bible studies, they have got
youth groups and so on and so forth. So, a little bigger impact I think that's probably been
presented this evening and that's why I'm here. So, thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, sir, very much. Appreciate it.
Johnson: Next is Sam Johnson.
S.Johnson: Hello. Sam Johnson. I work at 2701 East Pine in Meridian. That's 83642.
I'm here on behalf of the owners of the -- all the four -- the four lots that are just across
the street of this property, as well as the two office buildings that are just south of this .
We -- we own those four lots that are vacant currently. The building at 8501 Hickory and,
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then, also the newly built building at 2501 State Avenue and -- and we are -- we oppose
this for the same reason that the previous testimony is given, that it fills like this is an
incomplete application that doesn't -- the parking is -- is a concern. The -- the -- I
completely understand a joint partnership with temporary parking agreements. I'm also
the -- my main job is chief of staff for Scentsy and we have used and allowed others to
use parking lot -- our parking lots for different events in the community and well aware of
those temporary challenges that those -- the challenges that those temporary agreements
cause, the damage, the -- the wear and tear on grounds and landscaping that -- that
occur. But for a permanent, long-term solution I don't -- there is no permanent long-term
solution for enough parking spaces for this property. So, we are concerned that -- that --
that will encroach into our property, cause our property, you know, issues. I'm not
completely in agreement with why ACHD decided to change the parking on that street ,
on Hickory, without even notifying or discussing those -- that change with us, the other
property owners. So, similar -- similar concerns with Mr. Boyd, but I stand for questions.
Fitzgerald: Any questions? Thank you very much.
S.Johnson: Thank you.
Johnson: Mr. Chair, there are no additional sign-ins.
Fitzgerald: Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to testify on this
application? Do you want to close, sir, or do you want to testify? Okay. Would the
applicant like to come back forward.
McNulty: I just have kind of a brief synopsis to share. I do want to kind of point out that
we do meet city standards for current requirements of parking, albeit t hey are pretty --
they are pretty -- they are pretty lax for industrial areas for a purpose and a reason, as
well as running the numbers in our office we meet them for any commercial zone as well
for any adopted and approved city parking. They have -- you know, the church has gone
above and beyond basic code to provide additional parking for their members at this time.
But what funds they can afford to do.
Jordan: Since the beginning of our existence as a church ten years ago we have been a
church that desired to be a giver to this community, not takers. We have -- we have
invested heavily into this community because we want to make the city great and we
desire to show this community the goodness of Jesus that we profess and serve. One
example of how we have done this is by investing and giving back. In the fall of 2016 we
gave every teacher and student at Meridian Elementary, which is a Title One school that
shows with poverty, 500 brand new pair of shoes as a way of saying we b elieve in you
and we appreciate you. We have been a mobile church meeting in Mountain View High
School for the past eight years and have a fantastic relationship with them and I had the
honor blessing of their faculty over the years. When we approached the city about
purchasing this building we were directed to work with ACHD on street parking and
partner with local businesses on parking agreements. We were fully aware that the use
of parking on Sundays would be problematic without a plan of cooperation with ACHD
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and business neighbors when it comes to this facility. ACHD responded quickly after
reaching out, they would be able to open up parking for us on Sundays. As you already
know, we have parking agreements with two other businesses and one that we are in
process with. We have done our best to provide solutions that we continue to be a
blessing to this community, like we started out ten years ago. We desire to see a
community come together and support each other. We have seen and heard churches
in downtown Meridian who have come against similar obstacles and have come to create
solutions. Churches that have parking agreements that I have been told of -- Harvest
Church and Meridian United Methodist Church. Parking is problematic at both these
churches, but the community coming together has created solutions to those obstacles
and allowed them to be a blessing to this community. Our potential preschool that we
desire to launch in this location during the week is driven by the fact that we can serve
those at work and live close by. In addition, the lack of preschools that are wanted by
residents in this community would be a benefit to those who will be living next to us as a
resident -- residential development is being built to our west currently. We do not believe
parking will be an issue as parents will just be dropping off and picking up. They will not
be parking for a long period of time. I have driven down Hickory Avenue nearly every
Sunday at 9:30 a.m. since our December 11th meeting with the city. I have counted one
car on all those Sundays parked on Hickory Avenue. With our parking -- the parking
agreements and street parking allowed by ACHD, the impact hours being on Sunday
morning when all businesses are closed. We do not believe that we will have a negative
impact on our community. If we did we wouldn't be moving forward with the desire of
purchasing this building, as we only desire to have a positive impact on our city. In
addition, we are only impacting others through street parking and partner agreements on
two percent of the total hours given in a week. We are asking you would grant us our
CUP and allow us to have a permanent base of operations in this city for years to come
so we can continue to be a blessing and partner with other businesses and public entities
in making Meridian the great place it is. Thank you for taking the time to listen to me.
Fitzgerald: Additional questions for the applicant?
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: My concern -- this is a question and a statement. My concern regarding the
parking agreements are really involved -- really involve liability. So, if you have somebody
-- and, hopefully, your church members would not do this, but there is always a possibility
of those parking lots not being cleaned, not being appropriately maintained and someone
gets injured and there is a legal action that's taken and then -- and, then, the owner of
that parking lot is counter-suing the church for -- for coverage; right? So, that being said,
I would say that -- I don't know if you have had those conversations, but that might be a
reason that a parking lot agreement would -- would fail and that parking lot owner would
withdraw because the lease agreements do allow them to do that and, then, all of a
sudden you're -- you're having difficulty and you're having church services every Sunday.
So, it's an immediate challenge. So, that being said, has there been any conversation
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amongst -- amongst your decision makers, regarding those possibilities and how would
you address that?
Jordan: Yeah. We reached out to our insurance agent and said can we extend liability
insurance on these parking agreements -- on these parking lots and he has informed me
that we can extend our liability insurance onto their parking lot, so that if anything happens
during those hours our liability insurance would step in and take care of any -- any
accidents or injuries that take place.
Perreault: And for clarification -- I know that's private property, but, obviously, then, the
city gets involved, that there is police services and other services that are being provided.
So, that -- that's the nature of the question, so --
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland? No?
Holland: No questions right now.
Fitzgerald: Good.
Holland: Yeah.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Jordan: Thank you.
McNulty: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Can I get a motion to close the public hearing?
Holland: So moved.
Perreault: Second.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on H-2019-0004. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed same. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: And the application is before the Commission. Thoughts?
Seal: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, you look like you're ready to go.
Seals: Still formulating. I mean I very much appreciate the -- the nature of an educational
facility like this for -- for children. The concerns that I have are definitely -- and I think it's
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been shared by everybody here -- is definitely the parking and traffic situation. You know,
we are creatures of convenience, so the fact that ACHD came in and did allow parking
on Hickory during the weekend to me is -- to me that causes concern and as you can see
there is already, you know, one person here that's -- that -- there are two people here that
are giving testimony to that, that that is a concern that there is going to be parking on that
street in an area that there -- we don't know what the use of all that other land is going to
be at this point in time. Is it going to be a business that will be impacted by that. If it is,
then, obviously, those businesses have the ability to go back to A CHD and ask for that
-- you know, the signage to be changed as well and, you know, considering it was prior
no parking, then, they would likely have a leg to stand on with that. So, I would like to --
as -- my concern with the parking is that there isn't anything permanent in place and that
I believe that there does need to be something permanent in place in order to help
facilitate parking, you know, as a plan A, not necessarily a plan B and there will more than
likely be more activities that go on as the church expands and grows. As, you know,
somebody that, you know, has attended churches as a youngster and youth programs
and things like that develop and take off and they are very -- you know, they are very
much an integral piece of the church, but they are also something that's going to cause
more -- more traffic and other things like that to happen in the church itself as it does
grow.
Fitzgerald: Thank you. Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Mr. Chair. This is a tough one for me, because, obviously, we always want
churches to be successful and they are a great community asset and you have done your
due diligence, you have been working really hard with ACHD, with neighboring properties
and trying to figure out a plan and a formula and I know how tough the real estate market
is right now, especially if you're going to be considering a new construction project it's
really tough to find land at affordable prices to be able to put up a building like this. My
biggest concern is echoing my fellow Commissioners' thoughts here is parking could be
a big challenge for this site and I know they are looking for a long-term location and I think
that's what makes it more challenging, too, is it doesn't allow for a lot of growth
opportunity, too, be on where they are at right now and it's also an area that's industrial
in nature and I always like to see the highest and best use we can for -- for areas of town
as we -- as we can and this area wasn't necessarily designed for this type of -- of use,
even though it certainly could be retrofitted and -- and -- and function there, I -- I worry
about the parking, I worry about the circulation. Pulling up just a Google image search of
what that street looks like, there is -- it looks like there is sidewalk on one side of the road,
but not on the other side. So, the -- the two properties that they have looked at on the
north would have that sidewalk on there, so that -- that's good, but if they ever decided to
work with the group across the street, there might be some challenges, too, with having
safe pedestrian access to the site. So, I guess that I echo similar concerns. I worry about
the parking and I worry about the long-term plan if -- if their partnerships didn't work out.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
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Perreault: I think my fellow Commissioners said it very well. I'm -- I agree with all of the
concerns that -- that they brought up and it also limits the -- the church's ability to have --
you know, if they want -- in their expansion want to have additional events and functions,
that that might limit them and you just don't know what -- what may come. So, the
question I have for my fellow Commissioners is do we want to continue this and allow
them to discuss possible parking options with the owner to the south , because they -- that
owner does own both -- both pieces or -- or your thoughts.
Fitzgerald: That was actually more my -- my exact question is do we want to allow them
to go back and figure out if they can get permanent parking in place for at least an
extended period of time, because I want to see churches grow in our community and do
well and I have the same comment Commissioner Holland has said, using industrial
space in our city is going to be used well and it's the best use possible. But I don't want
to turn the good pastor and his church away from having a space that they can utilize. It
sounds like you guys have been great neighbors to Rocky Mountain High School and
that's great. We just want to make sure you're successful and not at war with your
neighbors immediately out of the gate and so what are your thoughts, Commissioners?
Because I would love to hear if we want to give them a chance to see if they can put
something more permanent in place that they can bring back to us for comment or what
are your thoughts?
Seal: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: Thank you. I think it's worth, you know, definitely letting -- letting them see if they
can come up with, you know, an alternative to the current parking situation, something
that's going to be more permanent or something that would include some kind of
permanent expansion to the parking that's -- that's already there. I think they have done
a good job in approaching -- in approaching this. I mean, obviously, you worked with
ACHD, you got the signage that's there. You have worked with your neighbor s. But the
-- the fact that a lot of this is temporary in nature is -- is definitely very concerning and --
and, you know, we would like to give you another chance to -- to see what you can do
about it to make it more permanent.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Chair, I agree with Commissioner Seal. I would like to give the church
additional opportunities to see what other options they may find in and also just want to
say we see a lot of applications and I appreciate how well you have tried to see through
everything that the staff has recommended to you prior to coming and that you have had
those conversations and made every attempt to figure out a solution prior to coming.
That's very appreciated by -- by the Commission for sure. So, yes, I think it would be --
and I -- if I understand it correctly, Andrea, would we need to reopen the hearing to
continue?
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Pogue: Yes. Yes. And, then, the clerk might be able to provide you with a date.
Perreault: Okay.
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: One other thing we didn't really talk about, too, is -- is the site itself and I know
in the last application we were talking about having an outdoor play area if there is going
to be a daycare facility or preschool learning facility, whatever it might look like. The one
limitation I see with this site is it's going to be really tough to have some of those outdoor
amenities because of the nature of the surrounding area and so while I'm opening to
continuing the application to discuss potential parking solutions, I wish I could go help
them and have a perfect building that's in the right location for them, but that's not
something we have. We are looking at the application that's in front of us, but I see some
other challenges potentially with the site, too. So, I don't want to lead them down a rabbit
trail to come back and, then, have other challenges to address later, too.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: On that topic I have a question for staff . Is it in the Commission's purview to
allow conditional use permit for the church operation with -- with their parking as is or if
we continue and they have another solution , but not regarding the daycare usage. Are
those -- is it all together or they -- can they be separated or what's our --
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, yes, you can -- the -- the request
is really twofold, daycare and church. So, you can deny one and make the findings for
denial or what you think they could do to gain your approval for that particular use. The
other thing that I wanted to provide clarification on is a couple things happening with this
application. One is as the applicant has testified, they do meet current code for the
parking, but this is a conditional use permit and you can require things -- require more
parking, so that's -- that's not my point, but my point is our conditions in our staff report
we have required the applicant to pave the property to the south, 1070, to include more
parking. That's a condition in the staff report right now. So, if you feel that's something
that's going to mitigate your concerns, that's a condition and the applicant can work with
the owner and figure that out. The other -- the other issue that I don't want to get too
sideways on is the offsite parking, the shared parking. The directors, staff, already
approved that offsite parking through alternate compliance. Certainly, again, that -- so,
we are kind of -- we are in a gray area there where we have already agreed to let it have
some of that offsite parking, so we made those findings that they did meet what code
requires. The code requires that the parking be within a certain walking distance from the
proposed use and it met that criteria. They were to have an executed agreement. Two
of the three properties have given us that. So, they have executed that agreement. What
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code doesn't say is the terms -- how we handled the -- the terms of that agreement and
that's where it's -- we -- so, we are -- don't -- don't hear me wrong -- don't get me wrong,
we are concerned that there is -- we can cut this off at any time. I think that's a valid
concern. But right now when we analyze the alternate compliance request for the shared
parking, we found that there is a sidewalk -- so, the areas that they are going to use the
shared parking has a pedestrian connection to this property. That's check one. Two,
there is a shared agreement for two of the properties. Two --check two. And, then, they
are within that thousand foot linear distance that they needed to be . So, that's why we
made a finding that it was consistent and it did meet code and we supported the alternate
compliance and, then, to throw that on top of it is they worked with ACHD to get a segment
of that road to be on-street parking. So, they remove those hurdles. So, I think the
applicant -- he's stated it correctly, he's done everything that staff's asked him to do. Now,
it's in your purview, whether or not you want to see more onsite parking. That's really
what you need to dive in and so if you feel like that property to the south of this needs to
be landscaped and parked as recommended by staff, then, that's where you may want to
continue and give them direction to work with that property owner and figure out a parking
solution to provide more onsite parking for this use and the daycare use and it is within
your purview if you want some kind of outdoor space , too. Code doesn't require it, but if
that's something, because of the industrial nature of this particular use for a daycare and
having children it makes some sense to have -- maybe it does have -- make some sense
to fence off the back here and use that lawn area or do something. I don't know at this
point. But I'm just giving you things to consider as you deliberate .
Fitzgerald: Well, I'm going to take us further down the rabbit hole , then, because I -- so,
we talk about coordinate code enforcement things where we lose the ability to -- whether
it's annexation or it's -- you know, we are going through a CUP or whatever it is, how do
we make sure that after five minutes after this conversation is over those agreements go
away. How do we make sure that -- I mean because that's my biggest concern is there
is no certainty for the home -- or the -- the property owners around that that those
additional -- those conditional agreements go away. How do we enforce that?
Parsons: Well, Mr. Chair or co-chair, Members of the Commission, it's -- it's -- it's a land
use approval. It's -- it's an alternative compliance and that's one of the requirements or
findings that we have to make that they are meeting the intent of that shared agreement.
That's a condition that they comply with that alternative compliance. So, if the adjacent
properties see that parking is an issue, they call the city and, then, we pull that and we
see that that's been revoked, then, we have an issue and we can revoke their approvals.
Fitzgerald: Thank you. Additional questions, comments for staff? Thoughts?
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I -- I still struggle with this one, but I think at a minimum I would like to see more
onsite parking for the nature of the reasons we have all talked about, whether that's
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working with the property to the south and seeing if they can purchase it and pave it. If
there is a daycare facility I would like to see some outdoor space, because of the nature
of the area that it's in and its industrial in nature. I would like to see a fenced area that
kids could play in safely, especially if they are working with little kids, but just a couple
thoughts, too.
Fitzgerald: Additional thoughts, Commissioner Perreault?
Perreault: Stephanie or Bill, do we have the approximate square footage of the building?
Leonard: Square footage? Sorry, I didn't hear.
Perreault: I'm curious about --
Leonard: I think it's approximately 7,500 is what the applicant had stated in the --
Perreault: I'm just thinking about interior versus exterior use and space and -- and how
much space there is. I agree with Commissioner Holland that I would like to see some
more onsite parking, just -- I don't know that it's our responsibility to figure -- figure out
what that looks like, but I think that that is -- is necessary.
Seal: I would agree with that. I mean, essentially, more parking is going t o be required,
so it's -- if we can allow them to figure out how to address that, I think it would be in, you
know, the best interest of everybody. That way it gives them a chance to, you know, take
a stab at that, see what they can come back with, and, then, we can talk about that at the
next meeting, without -- I mean, essentially, that's -- to me I agree with the outdoor area
-- I mean for anything that's going to be considered a daycare. I mean we, you know,
addressed that in the last application as well, where, you know, obviously, as -- the more
children grow we would -- we want to see them, you know, move outside when possible
and -- you know. And especially in a daycare educational facility. But the parking piece
for sure is something that I think needs to be addressed.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: So, they are requesting approximately 54 students, just six less than the last
application, and in our conversation the consideration that was in my mind for -- for why
we would not require them to have the exterior, because that's a very large building and
their space there, but this is a much much smaller space for almost the same amount of
students that would be present and so thinking that through a little bit more, I -- I think it
would be wise for us to require an outside area be used as part of the daycare.
Fitzgerald: And there is space to the east, at least along that property line that's grassed
in. I'm not sure how it can be utilized, but there is a little bit of space there. I think the
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parking issue is not necessarily daycare, it's the Sunday mornings and that's my
challenge. Does anybody have a consensus thought to formulate into a motion?
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I wonder if we open up the -- the public hearing and we could ask the applicant
to come back forward if we were to open it to address any of these concerns before we
make a continue motion, if we would like to do that.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I have a question for Andrea. In the past I believe you have that the purpose
of reopening the hearing is just to get a date set and to not continue with testimony.
Pogue: You can open it and continue it for a purpose that is stated and there could be
additional testimony received on the reason for the continuation.
Perreault: Okay.
Pogue: And we like to have a date to which it's set over to, which is provided by the clerk.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: I'm fine with opening the public hearing if you would like to hear from the
applicant. I have no problem with that at all.
Perreault: Okay. Mr. Chair, I make a motion to reopen the public hearing for Real Life
Church, H-2019-0004, for the purpose of asking the applicant some additional questions
and also establishing a date to continue the hearing, if the applicant chooses to do so.
Holland: Second.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing on H-2019-0004.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed say nay? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Would the applicants like to come forward real quick. So, we can ask you a
couple questions. Commissioner Holland, do you want to start?
Holland: Sure. Mr. Chairman. We appreciate you guys being here and you guys have
done a lot of work and, again, we want to reiterate we want you to be successful and we
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want you to find a good long-term location that's going to work really well for your church.
There is, obviously, some concerns about long-term location from some of the comments
that were made from public testimony, some of the written comments received, the
industrial nature of the area, but I don't know if you have any thoughts on what we were
deliberating on here on whether or not you would be open to working with the property
owner to the south to create some additional onsite parking.
Jordan: The -- I guess the quick answer would be yeah. I don't know how that's going to
happen, but we can go back to an ownership -- or our eldership and talk about this is what
the city wants, do we want to walk down that path or not. I don't -- I don't know how we
are going to do that financially, so --
Perreault: Mr. Chair? I would suppose that you could have a conversation with the
current owner about a lease or something like that, but I would encourage you to -- to
have that conversation if you haven't already. The question I have is is there a particular
reason that it's no longer working for you to be at the high school ? Is there something
about that that's causing you to pursue this avenue or is it fine for you to stay there if you
choose to take a different course?
Jordan: Right now we have a great relationship with Mountain View. At the same time
at any moment if they told us that they no longer wanted us there or that they weren't
going to have custodial staff to be there for us on Sunday morning, we would have to go
in and figure out another alternative. We have a good relationship with them, but,
obviously, it's not long term. It does have limitations in the sense of classroom space.
You know, we have -- we maxed out our classroom space there when it comes to use of
-- the teacher has to be willing to open up the classroom when it comes to us renting and
using that facility. It has limitations in the sense of, you know, it's -- do we have our own
home and that has implications with our -- our congregation and -- and all of that, but how
we can also bless the community in other ways, so --
Perreault: Thank you. I -- again, echoing their thoughts, we -- we definitely think churches
are a huge asset and that -- that we want to make it as possible for you guys as we can,
so --
Fitzgerald: This is a tough one. So, we -- we -- if you're willing and able to take this on
we really -- I think we -- we would like to be able to give you an opportunity to bring us
something that -- that might fit more in with our -- I think what -- I think what the staff has
outlined for us is that we need additional parking onsite and I think -- and I think with the
daycare piece having some outside -- some type of an outside activity that the kids can
utilize. I think that those are the two directions, if I'm not mistaken, that we are looking
for. Is that something you're willing to do if we give you guys some time?
Jordan: I would be open to investigating to figure out how that could possibly take place.
Yeah.
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Fitzgerald: Okay. Because I -- what I don't want you to do is -- we want you guys to be
successful and that's the biggest piece and I -- what I don't want to do is set you out for
failure right out of the gate, where there is the challenges from the neighbors are
immediate and that's a big concern of mine.
Jordan: Do I -- do I -- sorry. Go ahead.
Perreault: Oh. I was just going to say for clarification our options as a Commission are
to approve or continue or deny and if we deny an application -- or in this case it is our
final decision, it doesn't go to City Council -- then you're not permitted to resubmit that
application for a year --
Jordan: Okay.
Perreault: -- and so it's a benefit to you for us to -- to suggest a continuance. Just for
your understanding.
Jordan: Yeah. I appreciate that.
Fitzgerald: Did you have any additional comment?
Jordan: I just had a question in the sense -- am I allowed to --
Fitzgerald: Absolutely.
Jordan: It seemed like there was some miscommunication that we found out about this
week in regards to the city. They thought that we were actually leasing the building and
that's why they brought up about that parcel of land before and my understanding from
Jeremy at neUdesign he informed me that the city can't mandate or ask for us to purchase
that land, as long as we are meeting code. So, is that -- is that true or not true? I don't
know.
Fitzgerald: We can't mandate that you're purchasing the land, but they can ask for offsite
improvements to make sure you meet code or -- or Comprehensive Plan requirements
and I don't want to put words in Bill's mouth, but I will let him answer that specifically, but
they can ask for our offsite to make sure you're meeting the intent of what our -- our code
says.
Jordan: And so that goes back to what you were saying about potentially leasing that
land is what I'm hearing you say.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
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Perreault: So, not only can they ask for the offsite , but they could say we want you to
have more onsite, which -- which only leaves you so many options and --
Jordan: Sure.
Perreault: -- well, the reason we are suggesting that area to the south is because that
was something that the staff had mentioned in their staff report as an option that you
would potentially pursue, but, again, like you said we can't make you go buy that piece of
property.
Jordan: Sure.
Perreault: If staff recommended that there were offsite improvements we could do that,
but it sounded to us like that was a consideration that staff wanted you to make .
Jordan: Okay.
Seal: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: In looking at the -- the land that's available there, I mean, essentially, the -- the land
to the south already has a paved area that looks like -- I mean instead of having to go
and purchase a big plot of land or an ything if you just, you know, essentially, need, you
know, some kind of long-term lease agreement or long-term agreement or understanding
of, you know, being able to designate that as parking, stripe it out as additional parking
to, you know, probably double the amount of parking that's available right there and, then,
with the tenant or the owner of that land, when they go into business if it's a Monday
through Friday kind of place, obviously, that's going to work for both places to have that
parking there and available, so -- I mean something that if I were looking at this and, you
know, thinking outside of the box, that might be something that I would bring to them as,
you know, in order to have some kind of long-term lease agreement or understanding
that's in place, you know, the ability to stripe that out and provide that additional parking
at your expense and, then, when they develop that -- that business that they are going to
also be using that parking and, then, it would be a win-win, something along those lines.
So, you know, again, we want you guys to be successful and, you know, we -- we would
like to see something come back on the parking, but, you know, also we understand that
budgets are budgets.
Fitzgerald: Thank you guys very much. We appreciate it.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Do we need to establish a date for the --
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Fitzgerald: Yeah. I was going to ask --
Perreault: I'm sorry, would you come forward.
Fitzgerald: Sorry, gentlemen. I forgot. W hen -- when would you like to come back and
see us? When -- Bill, when is our next -- sorry. As I'm reaching for my calendar.
Johnson: Your next three hearings -- sorry, I'm not Bill, but March 7th, March 21st, and
April 4th are the next three.
Fitzgerald: You -- how long do you think you need -- it's March 7th, the 21st, or April 4th.
Jordan: Just to be safe, I guess April 4th would probably best in the sense of I have no
idea. I don't know how long the process will take. It could -- I don't know. But if I -- April
4th is the next date -- the latest date, I would be willing to --
Fitzgerald: We could -- and we can move it beyond that if you need to . Those are the
next three.
Jordan: Yeah. So --
Fitzgerald: And if you get caught into a situation I'm sure you could request a continuance
from the city.
Jordan: Okay.
Fitzgerald: So, there is always an option for that.
Jordan: Okay. Let's go April 4th then.
Fitzgerald: Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Jordan: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: With that can I get a motion?
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I move to continue file number H-2019-0004 for Real Life Church to the hearing
date of April 4th for the following reason: That we would like the applicant to come back
with -- after doing some due diligence to see if they can work with the neighboring property
on the south to get more onsite parking for their facility and also b ring forward some
considerations for outdoor space for the daycare -- preschool facility.
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Perreault: Second.
Seal: Second.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion in a second to continue the public hearing for Real Church --
Real Life Church, H-2019-0004, to the date of April 4th. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed same? Motion passes. Thank you, gentlemen. We appreciate your patience
in working with us.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Okay. Moving to the last item on our docket.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Yes.
Perreault: Can we take a five minute break?
Fitzgerald: Absolutely.
Perreault: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: We are going pause for a moment.
(Recess: 7:43 p.m. to 7:49 p.m.)
C. Public Hearing Continued from January 17, 2019 for Stapleton
Subdivision H-2018-0129) by Stapleton, LLC, Located at the SW
corner of S. Meridian Rd./SH 69 and W. Harris St.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 38.15 acres of land with
an R-15 zoning district; and
2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 223 building lots and
27 common lots on 35.67 acres of land in the R-15 zoning
district
Fitzgerald: So, we will reconvene the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting and we
will open the public hearing on H-2018-0129, Stapleton LLC -- or Stapleton Subdivision.
Sorry. And start with the staff report.
Allen: All righty. Thank you, Commission. The next applications before you are a request
for annexation and zoning, preliminary plat, and a variance. The variance does not
require Commission action, although the Commission can recommend -- make a
recommendation if you wish. This site consists of 35.67 acres of land , zoned RUT in Ada
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county and is located at the southwest corner of West Harris Street and South Meridian
Roads and State Highway 69. Adjacent land use and zoning. To the north are single
family residential uses zoned R-4 and R-9. To the west is future multi-family residential
zoned R-40. To the south is future mixed use developments zoned RUT in Ada county
and to the east is State Highway 69 and across the highway is future mixed use
development area. It's currently undeveloped land. This property was part of a larger
area which included the property to the south that was part of an annexation that amended
the future land use map to change the land use designation from medium density
residential to mixed use regional for the overall property. An annexation application was
also approved. However, the development agreement was never signed, so the property
was never annexed and the approval has since expired. The Comprehensive Plan future
land use designation for this property is mixed use regional. I will just read you a little bit
about that designation from the comp plan. The purpose of this designation is to provide
a mix of employment, retail and residential dwellings and public uses near major arterial
intersections. The intent is to integrate a variety of uses together, including residen tial
and to avoid predominantly single use development, such as a regional retail center with
only restaurants and other commercial uses. Development should be anchored by uses
that have a regional draw with the appropriate supporting uses. The applicant is
requesting annexation and zoning of 38.15 acres of land with an R-15 zoning district, a
preliminary plat consisting of 213 building lots and 22 common lots on 35.67 acres of land
and a variance to UDC 11-3H-4B for access via State Highway 69. The site is proposed
to develop with a mix of residential uses consisting of 212 single family residential units,
96 of those attached units and 116 of those detached units and 28 multi -family residential
uses, seven structures, fourplexes, for a total of 240 residential units at a gross density
of 6.73 units per acre. A concept bubble plan was submitted as shown that depicts how
this site is proposed to develop and how the adjacent property owner to the south plans
to develop the adjacent property with a mix of office, multi-family residential and
commercial uses. The overall mix of uses planned for this area is consistent with that
desired in the mixed use regional designation. In all the staff would prefer to see a higher
density in this area because of its proximity to a major transportation corridor, State
Highway 69, the density which falls at the low end of the six to 40 units per acre desired
in the MUR designation is within the desired range at 6.3 units per acre. There is a north -
south collector street designation on the master street map across this site and that is
shown there on the map on the right. It was -- the intent was for -- to provide access
between Harris Street and Amity Road. This designation was placed on this property
back in 2008 when the future land use amendment to mixed use regional was approved
because of the intensity of uses planned with the associated development and that
development plan is shown there on the left and the need to disperse traffic to the e xisting
and future signals at Harris Street and State Highway 69 and Amity and State Highway
69. The street was intended to serve as a backage road for the commercial development
along State Highway 69 as required by the UDC. However, the property was never
annexed and the property wasn't developed as intended. The proposed plat depicts a
short segment of the collector street at the north boundary from Harris Street to the first
intersection and at the south boundary from State Highway 69 to the north to the first
intersection and to the south boundary for future extension. And that is just -- go to this
map right here. The collector street will go to here and, then, it will come in here at the
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southeast boundary and, then, go up to this street and, then, to the south. Staff and
ACHD agree that the construction of two discontinuous collector streets meet the intent
of the master street map and doesn't preclude construction of the southern segment in
the future and is acceptable in the absence of the previous development plan. One
access is proposed at the north boundary via West Harris, a collector street, and one full
access is proposed via State Highway 69, although ITD is only in support of a right-in,
right-out, left-in access. The police department is not in support of the left-in access to
the site for safety reasons. A collector stub street is proposed at the south boundary for
future extension. Staff is requiring access to be provided to the west to the future multi-
family development where none is currently proposed in accord with the comp plan, which
encourages interconnectivity between developments, and the UDC, which requires local
street access to be provided to any use that currently takes access -- excuse me -- direct
access from a collector street, which is Harris Street at the north boundary. The UDC
prohibits new approaches directly accessing a state highway. Public street connections
to the state highway are only allowed at the section line road and at the half mile mark
between section line roads. This access is at the quarter mile. However, request for a
variance can be made to City Council for the placement and/or number of access points
to state highways as requested by the applicant with this deve lopment. However, findings
do have to be made in order for Council to approve a variance as follows: The variance
can't grant a right or special privilege that is not otherwise allow -- otherwise allowed in
the district. Two. The variance relieves an undue hardship because of characteristics of
the site. And, lastly, the variance shall not be detrimental to the public health, safety and
welfare. The plat is proposed to develop in five phases as shown on the phasing plan on
the left. The first phase is dependent on access via the state highway. The second phase
will have access via Harris Street, followed by the third phase at the corner of Harris and
State Highway 69 and the fourth phase directly west of phase one . The fifth phase will
be the multi-family residential development, which will require approval of a conditional
use permit prior to development. But the applicant proposes the following improvements
with each phase. The State Highway 69, South Meridian Road, roadway improvements,
ten foot wide multi-use pathway and street buffer landscaping along the full length of the
project boundary along State Highway 69 and South Meridian Road and phase two, the
West Harris Street roadway improvements, including curb, gutter and detached sidewalk
and street buffer landscaping along the full length of the project boundary along West
Harris Street and installation of the traffic signal at West Harris Street and State Highway
69 when traffic warrants. Prior to issuance of any certificate of occupancies for each of
these phases the associated improvements, as proposed by the applicant and required
by staff, are required to be completed. If Council doesn't approve the variance for access
via State Highway 69, the Harris Street improvements, including the signal, are required
to be completed with phase one. The traffic impact study will need to be updated to reflect
the new trip distribution and volumes. The preliminary plat will need to be revised and
reconfigured to remove the access and a new phasing plan will need to be submitted. A
minimum of ten percent or 3.57 acres of qualified open space and two site amenities are
required for this development. The applicant is proposing open space and site amenities
in excess of the minimum required. A total of 13.9 percent or 4.95 acres of qualified open
space is proposed consisting of half the street buffer along State Highway 69, the buffer
along collector streets, a few parkways along local streets, common areas containing
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pathways, a small dog park and a half acre central common area. Site amenities consist
of a segment of the city's multi-use pathway system within the northwest pipeline corridor
at the southwest corner of the site. A multi-use pathway within the street buffer along
State Highway 69. A park with children's play structures consisting of a 24-by-36 foot
play structure, swings, climbing dome, rock climbing boulders, basketball court, big wheel
track and seating area with four foot tall wrought iron fencing with a gated entry
surrounding the park for children's safety and a dog park for small dogs with seating
areas. A six foot tall concrete fence on top of a four foot tall berm as shown there ten feet
above the center line of the adjacent road is proposed in accord with UDC standards for
residential developments adjacent to state highways. And that -- that is proposed
adjacent to Stay Highway 69. The Carlson Lateral runs along the -- oops. Wrong way.
West boundary of the site and that is in this common area right here and it has been
piped. The easement for the lateral is outside of the adjacent building. The northwest
gas pipeline runs along the southwest corner the site and that is this area right here and
it lies within a 75 foot wide easement contained in a common lot. All development within
this easement is required to comply with the Williams Pipeline Developers Handbook.
Because of the narrow lots, which -- around 32 feet wide for detached homes and
associated driveways, there is not adequate room for on -street parking in front of those
lots for guest parking and in some areas parking is quite a ways away. W here attached
homes are proposed there is room for approximately one space for every two lots for on-
street parking. On-street parking is also available adjacent to common lots. The applicant
submitted an exhibit as shown that demonstrates available on-street parking for the
development, which amounts to approximately 109 spaces available for guest parking.
Conceptual building elevations and photos were submitted for the proposed single family
attached and detached units and the multi -family structures. The single family attached
and multi-family structures are required to comply with the design standards in the
architectural standards manual. Structures adjacent to Harris Street and State Highway
69 are proposed to all be single story in height, except for those on Lot 60 and 62, Block
1, which will be two stories in height and those are just these two lots right here. To avoid
monotonous wall plains, the rear of structures visible from Harris Street -- Harris Street
and State Highway 69 are required to have varied setbacks. This property is on a
significant slope. The ground is quite a bit higher and it slopes down to the state highway.
So, it's likely that these homes will be visible even -- even with the wall across the
frontage. Written testimony has been received from Kimberly Porter, Evan and Annalyn
Frazier, Sandy and Randy Nelson, Will Dilmore and they are all in favor of the housing
options and affordability provided with this development. Staff is recommending approval
of the annexation and zoning and preliminary plat and denial of the variance. Staff is
recommending a change to the development -- excuse me -- development agreement
provision, number 1-F in Section 8, to require local street connection specifically, rather
than just a vehicular connection to the west property boundary to the future multi-family
development as required by UDC 11-3A-3A3. Staff will stand for any questions.
Fitzgerald: Thanks, Sonya. Any questions for staff? Not yet? Would the applicant --
Allen: Also on clarification --
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Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am.
Allen: -- if I may. The applicant did submit a response to the staff report. One thing
specifically they asked to not be required to provide painted curbs and no parking signs
for the areas, like where the 27 foot wide street section was proposed where parking is
only allowed on one side of the street. After I received the applicant's request I did touch
base with Joe Bongiorno in our fire department and he did specifically say that he did
want both the curb and signage provided. Thank you .
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Chair. Sonya, it states in here that the lots will be approximately 32 foot
wide. Is the -- are the interior setbacks also less than five feet?
Allen: They are. Yes. The 32 foot wide lots I believe are for the detached homes. The
applicant can clarify if I'm incorrect. But, yes, they do have the three foot wide setbacks,
unless a greater easement is required.
Perreault: On all of the attached and detached structures?
Allen: Yes. The R-15 district does allow a three foot wide setback.
Perreault: All right. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thank you. Any other questions? Would the applicant like to come forward.
Good evening.
Nelson: Good evening.
Fitzgerald: Please identify yourself and your address for the record, please, ma'am.
Nelson: Let's see if I can make sure I know how to work this. Good evening, Members
of the Commission. My name is Deborah Nelson. My address is 601 West Bannock
Street in Boise. I'm here tonight with the development team for Stapleton Subdivision. I
think we can skip through some of these items, because Sonya has given a really
thorough presentation. A couple of items to add to her description of the location that we
are really excited about is this -- this property is also located close to Roaring Springs,
Wahooz, the Majestic Theater, and a lot of other shopping opportunities that we think
provide some additional offsite amenities for the residents. It's also close to schools and
parks. Here is the detailed site plan. The overall density is 6.73. You can see here the
centrally located large neighborhood park. There is also a lot of passive open space and
landscaped areas throughout the development, including nice touches like landscape
endings to each one of these streets, landscaped boulevard parkways coming into each
side of the development on the north and the south . It's got three types of residential
products. The single family detached we have got 116 of these units. These are two
stories and range from 1,377 square feet to about 1,850. The single family attached we
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have got 96 of these units. These are two units attached with a shared wall . They are
single level townhouses and these will border the existing public streets on both the north
and the east and provide a really nice housing product for more mature empty nesters
with that single story. In addition, we have got the multi-family townhomes, which are
really, you know, vertically integrated apartment homes, because they each have an
exterior entrance and so they really are structured more like townhomes. This is just
conceptual at this point. Obviously we will have to come back with a conditional use
permit for those uses. But there are 28 units there. And similar housing products have
been used in numerous developments throughout the city and -- with great success.
There continues to be high demand for the price point and quality of these home s as has
been seen by the success of those developments , including Solterra and Sobe, Verado
Estates and Movado Greens. Part of I think this success is also driven by the great
amenities that these guys always provide in their developments and Sonya went through
this in detail, so I won't spend too much time here, but just to hit a couple of things. This
-- this play area that's in this community park is amazing. The fencing to keep everybody
safe for toddlers to be in there, the -- the youth soccer field, the half basketball court, all
the play structures, I mean it's decked out and it's -- it's open to the neighbors to use and
the central location helps that. In addition, we have got the regional pathways with the
ten foot wide regional pathway being constructed along the Williams Pipeline to the
southwest corner and all the way along the east boundary. They are building 1,200 feet
of regional pathway with this one small development. That's incredible. If you count all
of the open space, not just what counts as qualified open space under the code the way
that staff has counted it, they have got 6.9 acres at 19.3 percent. Significant. It has great
pedestrian connectivity here. As the slide illustrates, there is more than a dozen access
points on all sides of the development. This is going to create great walkability , not just
for the residents of Stapleton, but also for the surrounding residents to connect them to
the future commercial and mixed uses to the south and to the east. With parking staff
commented that there are some narrower lots. That's -- that's also what happens when
you have a higher density development and if it was even denser that would be even
more concentrated and yet these guys have designed this in order to not just meet what's
required by code, which is two spaces in garages and two on the driveway, but in addition
their design accommodates at least 109 additional guest spaces on the streets. Phasing.
Sonya went through that really well, so I won't go through this, but I just want to highlight
that it's -- what's amazing about this phasing plan is that with phase one, even though it's
just down here on the southeast corner, they will do all of the Meridian Road
improvements with phase one. Similarly, with phase two, even though it's just in this
northwest corner, they will do all of the Harris improvements with phase two. They will
also bring in the entire community park in the center -- in the center with phase two. So,
they are front loading the amenities and a lot of the expensive improvements that are
going to benefit this neighborhood and the surrounding neighborhood. As -- as Sonya
mentioned, staff is asking for a condition of approval that requires a vehicular connection
to the west that we have not shown on our plat. We are worried about that connection
for a number of reasons. It doesn't fit within the design that we have got here. It also --
we are worried about the traffic and parking spilling over from this R-40 zoned site from
apartment uses to come onto this property. This R-40 site has already been annexed
and zoned by the city. That's when it received the R-40 zoning. At that time the city did
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not require any connection. Nothing has changed. Their concept plan has private streets.
So, it -- we are still within code for them not to have a connection here. Prior development
of this -- or approval of this development here was also annexed and zoned. They did
not require connection here to this R-40 zone, but they do have connection down here to
the east already. Both of them connect up here to Harris to the mid mile collector, which
is the appropriate street to funnel them onto -- to head east. Providing any kind of shortcut
through this development doesn't really help those commuters get to where they need to
go any faster than just coming up to the street that should funnel them. We visited with
the property owners to the west, which this is the same developer for both projects. They
do not need or request full access, all they wanted was emergency access, which we
have provided right here. ACHD reviewed this -- this roadway network and approved it
and even provided specific comment on that exact issue about whether there should be
vehicular comment -- or vehicular connection to the west. Christy Little, in a comment to
Sonya sent January 10th, said that if the city requires emergency access, that's fine.
Vehicular access for the apartments will need to come through Graycliff and Harris Street.
ACHD agreed that the prior developments had not been required to provide that
connection and that the appropriate place for that higher density traffic was to go directly
to the mid mile collector. A couple of additional transportation items . ACHD and ITD
have both reviewed this and offered favorable recommendations and comments . ACHD
has approved the plat and the proposed roadways. They have required a 25 percent
contribution to the cost of the signal at Harris, which the developer is in agreement with.
That will be paid as soon as the development connects to Harris at that final plat and if
-- according to both ITD and ACHD there will be analysis of whether the signal is
warranted beginning at that time and, then, annually and as soon as it is warranted the
signal has to be constructed. Neither of those agencies expect the developer to pay more
than their fair share and so if this development ends up having to front it at that time, if
that's when the warrant come through, ACHD is going to start a road trust and ensure
that other properties in this area contribute to that cost as well. In addition to commenting
on the Harris Street signal, ITD has also provided preliminary approval of the -- the access
that we have requested on 69, limited, though, not to be full access, but right-in, right-out,
left-in. It's preliminary only in the sense that we just need to come forward with
construction plans with your standard access agreement with ITD. They -- a little history
here. ITD has approved this before, as has the city, when Hawkins first came forward in
2012, as Sonya mentioned, with the prior applications for developing both this property
and the property to the south. They asked for three access points on Meridian Road.
The city approved those through a variance. ITD approve them. And, in fact, they were
constructed. Then the development did not happen and the property did not end up
annexing into the city. With this development we have agreed to take out one of the two
of those access points that falls within the Stapleton portion of that property, leaving just
the access point on the south and ITD has agreed. They have looked at it again under
their current traffic flows and their current safety evaluation and have decided that access
there is appropriate, so long as it's limited to those three turning movements. This is an
issue that's really presented for Council for their decision on the variance and modification
we have requested, but I just wanted you to have that additional history of -- that we are
asking for an access there, but we are also letting one go. That access is important, not
just for the connectivity and flow of our development, but for the future Hawkins
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development to the south for commercial uses there. Staff has suggested or requested
staggered rear setbacks, not because this is required by code, but because they are
worried about the aesthetic appearance of a monotonous wall plain along major roads
where you have got a lot of houses backing up to public streets. We actually share that
aesthetic concern and that's why we always build single story homes along those streets
and so that -- that concern here doesn't apply, because given the height that we have
already self restricted, all of the rear facing homes that are along Meridian and Harris,
they are -- they will be single story. There won't be that second story wall that's facing
and given the significant fencing and berm that is required along these streets, you don't
see a second story wall. So, it's not an issue here. In fact, from these pictures you can
tell that all you really can see is the contours of the roofline and given the space limitations
we don't have much to work with to do the staggering, so we ask that that not apply here
given the single story limitation. So, in -- in summary we did provide a response to the
staff report. We have got some items that we are asking to be changed. We are mostly
in agreement with the staff 's recommendation. We appreciate their recommendation for
support. We ask you to also recommend this for approval with just a couple of items to
address. We ask that the conditions of approval that were recommended by staff
regarding the vehicular connection to the west and the staggered rear setbacks be
deleted and, then, just a couple of modifications, clarifications on the signal timing. There
was some language in the staff report that suggested it had to be done with phase one .
I think Sonya has addressed that in her staff report and presentation tonight that she
understands it will be with phase two and only when warranted and that's consistent with
ACHD and ITD's conditions of approval. So, we just ask that that language reflect as they
have recommended that. On the no parking signage, you know, ACHD restricts parking
to one side of the street for certain streets within the development. We did look up the
fire code language and it is an or, so -- and it is a residential development, so we would
prefer the signage over the red paint on the curb and given the -- the fire chief's answer
to Sonya, maybe the best way to handle this one that we would ask of you is to say, you
know, in accordance with the building code, fire code language, that if -- if it is and if -- if
that's required, we will -- we have to comply, but if it is or we certainly do want to preserve
that choice and be able to put more attractive signage up to restrict the parking , rather
than red curb paint. So, I have a handout just with those few items that's on this slide .
It's just a printout of this slide, so that if you're in agreement with our request that you
could incorporate those into a motion and so I will hand those to you and, then, I would
stand for your questions.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am. Is there any questions of the applicant? Commissioner
Holland.
Holland: Mr. Chair. Could we go back to the site plan again, Sonya.
Nelson: I can. Yeah. Let's see. I think. Oh, no. You're -- you're overriding me, which
is fine. What do you want me to do? Do you want to get my hand off of it and you drive?
Holland: That slide actually works great.
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Nelson: Okay.
Holland: So, one question I have got for you. Just looking at Highway 69 -- and I know
it's a popular road with a lot of people driving on it and it gets busier and busier every day,
similar to Chinden Road, similar to State Street, similar to Eagle Road. I think one of the
biggest challenges on the Commission is just making sure that we don't create another
Eagle Road in the way that we -- we plan developments out and so in the initial site
concept that come forward that didn't move forward there was a collector road that
followed the west boundary, kind of backage road. Did you look at any other concepts of
how a backage road might integrate better to exit traffic onto Amity further south through
the other development that's being proposed to the south of you ?
Nelson: Co-chair people, Commissioner Holland, thanks for your question. It -- with the
change in the uses from the prior development, a backage road wasn't needed to support
this level of uses now. That wasn't originally part of the Comprehensive Plan, that came
into -- that master street map was adopted only in response to the Hawkins original
proposal on this property and so the volumes of traffic we have just don't -- don't warrant
that. It eats up a lot of the development space with nonfronting houses and -- and I think,
more importantly, the city has already worked around it, because all of the development
approvals that have come into the west have created a different connector between Harris
and Amity just west of these developments that you can see here with a Graycliff Estates
and so that -- there is an opportunity to get down there. You don't need to interrupt the
flow of these properties to create yet another one.
Holland: One more follow-up question. So, just looking at this, Harris would be a road
that would be where the signal would be requested to be at and , then, you're also
requesting a variance to have the other entrance to the south on this map to be a full
access into the property or this would just be a right-in, right-out on that one?
Nelson: Commissioner Holland, we initially requested full access, but we are in support
of ITD's conditional approval to limit that to three turning movements only, right-in, right-
out and left-in and as is the case with any access onto a state highway, ITD always holds
the cards on when they take that away and require an even more restrictive median. So,
in the future, you know, they may de termine that as safety warrants a right-in, right-out
there. That's their determination.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Mr. Chair. Are you in -- in agreement with the staff 's comments if the Council
does not approve the variance where they stated that -- that phase one -- that phase one
would start off Harris Street -- or that you would change the phasing plan and submit a
new plat and whatnot? Is there agreement from the applicant with that if Council does
not approve the variance?
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Nelson: Commissioner Perreault, no, not at this time. That's -- our design and phasing
plan, everything for this development is -- is intending to have that access to the -- to the
south. It's, as I mentioned, not just critical for our development, but also for the
development to the south to succeed to have mixed use and commercial there. So , no,
not at this time.
Fitzgerald: Additional questions? Thank you very much.
Nelson: Thank you very much.
Fitzgerald: Chris, do we have --
Johnson: Mr. Chair, you have several. First is Ronnie Winks.
Fitzgerald: Thank you for being here. Please state your name and your address for the
record, please, ma'am.
Winks: Yeah. It's Ronnie Winks. 2172 East Sharptail Street in Meridian. And I actually
live in the Verado Subdivision and I'm actually a first time homebuyer, so there is a lot of
struggles coming into trying to find a home in my budget for being , you know, a college
graduate, having two degrees and, then, also trying to work as a public employee's
payment -- pay scale and so trying to find anything that was a reasonably priced home
for a first time home was ridiculous and so with this neighborhood -- we kind of stumbled
upon it and the first thing we saw when -- since I grew up here in Meridian, went to school
here in Meridian, left, came back and so I grew up here and wanted to move back home
here and the first thing we saw was the park and so we were like, okay, they are -- they
are ready, they got their park ready, but now they need homes. So, we always saw that
when we would drive past on Ustick and with the home we were starting to look at other
developments out in Nampa, because we heard it was cheaper out there and I'm like it's
Nampa. And so it really -- wasn't feeling quite so great about living out there when my
office was moving to the old HP complex and so looking at different developments, we
were looking at CBH homes, Hubble Homes, we were looking at all these different options
and looking at the prices, the starting price point for some of these homes out in Nampa
just starting -- just for the home itself was around 200,000 dollars, plus if you wanted the
land -- and plus you had to pay for the land the house was on, so that was like another
40,000 dollars and, then, if you want any type of upgrades it was another like five to ten
thousand per each upgrade that you did and so it just started piling up and piling up and
piling up and, then, when we came across this neighborhood, the house -- they don't --
you don't get to have the choice of like all your colors, but they have these options that's
going to come in and they are like, hey, this is what's available, but you had everything
upgraded. You have stainless steel appliances, you had quartz or granite. So, you had
everything included all for this reasonable price and it would have been the same as the
base price of that home out in Nampa, plus the land and I got all these upgrades included.
So, I think it's a great -- great option and especially for first time homebuyers who want
something that's got quality, but to stay in Meridian as well. So, I stand for questions.
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Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Madam.
Perreault: You said you're a resident of Verado; is that right?
Winks: Uh-huh.
Perreault: Have you seen any concerns regarding the parking or the proximity of the
homes to one another or can you share with us any thoughts on that for our knowledge ?
Winks: I haven't had any issues and I actually back up to the model home , too, so I was
like, oh, great, I'm going to have to worry about all these people seeing into my house. I
haven't had any issues once I got blinds. Didn't have to worry about that. And I'm actually
right next to the park, so I have -- I'm a little bit on a different side, because I don't have
a neighbor to -- to the east, but I will be having a neighbor to the west , because I am one
of them that they are still getting ready for phase two, they are working on that, so I'm
right at the edge, but I haven't noticed a whole lot of issues. It seems pretty good and
what they do with these homes, if you have these windows that are next to each other,
they put in like these kind of privacy type classes, so that it makes it a little bit better. So,
I couldn't really tell a whole lot with mine behind me and it's been great, they take care of
the yard maintenance -- maintenance, which is great, because if it's just me I don't want
to sit and mow every week by myself and all that fun stuff, especially if it breaks and I
have to call my father -- be like, dad, come help me, you know. Do that typical thing,
so --
Perreault: Thank you very much.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am. Questions?
Johnson: Next is Debbie Jeske.
Fitzgerald: Welcome, ma'am.
Jeske: Hi.
Fitzgerald: Please state your name and address for that record, please.
Jeske: Will do. I am Debbie Jeske. I live at 1886 North Chandra Avenue in Meridian. I
am -- I live in Solterra Subdivision with my husband. It's a BlackRock home and I'm here
to tell you why it works for us. We came from Anchorage, Alaska, and this is exactly what
we needed and what we wanted. It is a small home and a small yard , but it's a positive
thing and we even have green space, which we are very happy for. It's a comfortable --
comfortable floor plan and it's modern finishes and it is new. Lawn care is taken care of.
We have a two car driveway and a two car garage. It's walkable . We have sidewalks.
We have shade trees. And we even have evening light on the exterior in the front at dusk.
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So, it's also a safety measure. It's attractive, mature landscaping. I think we actually
have larger, more mature trees planted in our subdivision than we personally would have
planted in our three bedroom ranch home in Alaska. So , we are quite excited about that.
It has a mixed play and sports space, very very similar to what is being proposed, and it
is really very very nice. We do not have a ny children, but we do walk past it -- almost
every day we walk the subdivision, we walk many of the subdivisions in the area. We
enjoy our subdivision, because it is clean, it is compact, but it is also breathable and we
really appreciate everything that we have. We appreciate the quality in the construction.
We are in an attached one story home, so we are in a very comfortable space, a
comfortable design, quality features. We also do appreciate -- we love the floor plan. It's
very bright. We also believe, from what we have seen in the three and four bedrooms
that they are also very bright, very well designed. We appreciate the siding. We --
actually, it sounds strange, but we actually do appreciate the siding. We come from a
house that was sided with T111 on three sides, so we can really appreciate the siding.
We also appreciate the layout. We actually do appreciate the fact that the one stories
back up to one stories and two stories back up to two stories. We also appreciate what
we believe is a staggered window placement between each of the units and we also
believe that that carries through with the two story, as the previous resident had indicated
with some -- a window treatment, some opaque window treatments and staggered
windows. So, we really do appreciate that. So , I just have to say that it does meet our
needs price wise and size wise and we really enjoy the subdivision and we enjoy the look.
We think it's very attractive. We think it has a nice palette color. We think it has a very
nice design and it's very consistent and, again, like I said before, it is clean, it's very
compact, but it's also very breathable for -- for us. So, I thank you very much for your
time.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate it.
Johnson: Dennis Green.
Green: My name is Dennis Green and I live at 2185 East Sharptail also in Verado and I
will keep my remarks short, but, hopefully, not redundant. The reason I like where I live
-- and I looked at just about every development in Meridian and Eagle. It was very
affordable, but I don't want to imply that it was cheap. I have a very nice four bedroom ,
two and a half bath house that's laid out very comfortably. The quality of the construction
exceeded all my expectations. They are very well built. And one of the areas I would like
to talk about is the clean construction of the area . When you come into Verado, even
though there is a lot of houses being built, you won't find any messes anywhere. They
go through a great deal of trouble to clean up after themselves , keep the streets clean,
keep the sidewalks clean. I personally really appreciate that. My other comment would
be I would like to -- this -- this is very important to me. I found that the builder is a very
responsible company and I will give you an example. I recently had a couple of
adjustments that, of course, you have to make to a new house, a door being loose and
they sent some -- and they have a website, all I had to do is fill it out, say what I wanted,
it wasn't a day later that they responded. When can we come over. Well, they wanted to
come over that day. It didn't work out. The next day they came over, they did the repairs,
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the guy was unhappy, he said I think we can do a better job. I want to bring the carpenter
in. The next day the carpenter came. As he was leaving he said your front door is just a
little bit loose, let me take care of this for you. So, I really wanted to give the credit to the
builder and the way they manage the property and the cleanliness of the property and,
lastly, we talked about affordability for young people getting started, I would say half my
neighbors are senior citizens. They moved out of their big house s like I did to something
that's very comfortable and affordable. Any questions?
Fitzgerald: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
Green: Thank you.
Johnson: Brandon Whallon. Andrew Newland. I'm sorry. Brandon.
Fitzgerald: Sorry we skipped you. Just joking. Just -- you can beat on me later.
Whallon: No worries. Madam Chair, Members of the Meridian Planning Commission, my
name is Brandon Whallon. I'm with Hawkins Companies in Boise, Idaho. Address of 855
West Broad Street, Boise -- Boise, Idaho. I just wanted to say that Hawkins Companies
purchased this land and we entered into a pretty brisk entitlement process with staff. We
had that whole mixed use plan set in place. We had an anchor that was very interested
in being located between south Meridian and Kuna. The mid boxes were looking to follow
and so we had everything falling into place, we were working with staff. They were really
happy with the site plan that we were working on. We had the retail, office, a multi-family
component, so everything was looking good and so we purchased the land and one of
the key items that I think is important for this discussion is the land that we purchased
they had deeds that were attached to them that when ITD widened that highway back in
the early '80s, instead of paying the land owners for the right of way taking for the widening
of the road, they just conveyed a -- an access point. ITD would guarantee you an access
point through that -- through your property. So, when we purchased the property we were
purchasing 11 access points or, excuse me, seven access points as well. Well, so, then,
we were working through the site planning process, the development agreement with the
City of Meridian and, then, we were showing three access points to 69, saying, hey, we
bought seven, but we will relinquish four of them and keep the three and that really stalled
the process, because we couldn't get to an agreement with staff. Planning Commission
denied. Then we had to appeal and, then, we ended up having to go to the court system
and, finally, it was decided that three access points would be allowed, ITD approved that
variance and, then, we went before City of Meridian, they also approved that variance
and so we moved forward -- or wanted to move forward, but at that point in time we had
lost our major anchor. The entitlement process was taking too long and they needed to
move forward with the store and so they went to another location and so by that time we
have -- you know, our -- our entitlement process had lengthened out, we had lost our
anchor and, then, during this time, actually the whole entire retail sector kind of got flipped
upside down and so we still have a lot of interest in that property, we have great plans for
it, we want it to be that regional mixed use development that we have always thought and
the city thought it would be, but, you know, we are going to have to really think hard on
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how we are going to use our property, but one of the key things that -- that our success
of having a regional mixed use development from -- from the Stapleton project going
south to Amity, we will need to access and so that access point staying there , not only as
a benefit and requirement for Stapleton , but for our continued success or possibility of
having a mixed use center, we still need that access point. So, respectfully, I ask that
you approve Subdivision H-2018-0129 with specific reference to the previous variance
approvals that have been provided by ITD and the City of Meridian.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much.
Whallon: Thank you very much.
Fitzgerald: Appreciate it.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I feel like the information that you're sharing is really important for us to hear.
The history is really helpful. So, is there anything else -- would it be okay with the
Commission if we allow him to finish anything else you might need to say?
Fitzgerald: Yes.
Whallon: I just -- I do appreciate the discussion. The staff presentation and also the
application that has been submitted by Stapleton, this is something -- like I said, we had
purchased when we had anchor interest and we were going through the entitlement
process and we thought we had kind of a slam dunk on the access points and that stalled
us and it was an abrupt stop and so as we went through that process, you know, the
economic downturn was kind of coming out of it, retailers were, then, kind of downsizing
and so the -- the layout and what we had planned, you know, had all changed and the
shops were going to be smaller, the anchors -- everything changed and so, then, we had
to look at what other options might be and we always knew there was going to be a
residential component to our mixed use development and so we thought the Stapleton
purchase and development of a highly -- very densely single family and mixed housing
product would be a good compliment to our retail mixed use development right next door,
but for that to be successful, that access point that we negotiated with ITD and the City
of Meridian, it is crucial for us to have an opportunity to get those tenants back onto the
property and get the intensity that we envision on that property.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Am I to understand correctly that all that property to the south is still owned by
Hawkins and Hawkins intends to develop the potential retail and commercial --
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Whallon: Yes, ma'am.
Perreault: -- in that location? Okay.
Whallon: That is correct.
Fitzgerald; And you have -- how many access points do you have an Amity? Do you
have two or just one?
Whallon: There were three between Harris and -- oh, excuse me. On Amity.
Fitzgerald: On Amity going south.
Whallon: I think we had -- we had two.
Fitzgerald: Okay. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you very much. Any other questions?
Thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Johnson: Andrew Newland.
Fitzgerald: How are you?
Newland: I'm Andrew Newland. I live at 2166 East Ringneck Street and that's in the
Verado Subdivision. I'm also a realtor in the area, so I just want to talk to you a little bit
about my opinion and the need for a product like this. In the last 12 months I have sold
four properties in the Verado Subdivision. A very good variety of the type of property and
home. As well I have sold the townhomes -- the two story homes and as well as the
single level detached home. I sold from first time homebuyers to a client that's retiring in,
you know, a week from now. So, it really speaks to the need and the fit for not just first
time homebuyers, but an array of everyone in that there is a product in this neighborhood
and this development that really can hit a lot of different demographics and age
requirements as well. The other thing I want to talk about is how much it's a needed
alternative to affordable new construction. As you heard one of the others speak about
looking at, you know, CBH Homes and Nampa and being able to find something here in
Meridian as well. There is so few affordable new home builders and having something
that BlackRock is able to do to really fit a need for the community is very important . You
have also heard about how clean it is and how great the green spaces i n the parks and
they are also used very often as well. I live very close to the park in the Verado
Subdivision and when the weather permits it seems like there is always someone out
there either shooting hoops or kids running around the little racetrack there. Really fun
to see and nice to see that those spaces are being used. You have heard they do top
notch work. They really do. And I think that's really about all I have to take up your time
for. So, if you have any questions I would be happy to answer.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much.
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Newland: No problem.
Johnson: Randy Nelson.
Fitzgerald: Mr. Nelson.
R.Nelson: My name is Randy Nelson. I live at 1873 North Marnita in Solterra community
and the redundancy was going to have to be h ere, but the idea that when we came up
here two years ago looking for a place to retire and we looked all over this valley and we
saw things that weren't going to make it and the added costs for fences and backyards
and things were -- it just took us out of our price range and if I tell this story short, my wife
had to go back home and I kept looking and we came across the Solterra community and
just driving down the first street -- it's still got construction, but the one gentleman said
they keep up the construction so it's not a mess and the house -- the Dilmores -- I met
Will out in the street, he's busy as can be, he is the on-site realtor. He tosses me the
keys. Go look at that one over there if you want to and it just turned out to be already
done, already in. The granite matched the bathrooms, matched the ceiling -- it had ceiling
fans, it had everything about the house and the quality. We -- we are in an attached
single story. It fits everything. It's the biggest little three bedroom home -- my wife says
more storage than the homes we have had in the past. So, everything about this builder
that we can see has done all the details. We have a patio in the backyard when we lived
in Las Vegas and they gave you three by three and say have fun wit h that and, you know,
we have 16 by 12 or 16 by 14 . We have put a cover over it and we have an additional
space out in the backyard in this nice little patio home that works so well for us to retire
here and have somebody do the yard and we can lock up a nd everybody knows
everybody. We live behind the lady that came up to speak . The siding -- everything
about this is just the perfect home. It 's well built. They do try, they do care. Their
response time for the new home fixings -- no complaints whatsoever. They have good
staff. So, I'm just -- I -- I endorse it completely. We can't -- can't believe how well they
have done up here. Las Vegas was put to shame with, you know, low two hundreds,
everything done -- you can't beat it. And so I just -- I wanted to make sure I could come
up and say the same thing, because we are very happy up here.
Fitzgerald: We appreciate it. Thank you, sir, very much.
Johnson: Will Dilmore.
Dilmore: Will Dilmore. 1979 North Locust Grove Road in Meridian. I have been a realtor
in the area for 25 years. Work with BlackRock Group for 20 plus years -- or almost 20
years. Stapleton will be the fifth project in Meridian with this housing style. All four
previous neighborhoods have been extremely successful and sold out in record time. The
goal of these communities is to offer affordability. They have succeeded in meeting that
need with this housing product, as you have heard. Verado is a similar neighborhood to
Stapleton. In 2018 it was the top selling new construction community in Meridian under
300,000 with 49 sales. Currently in all of Meridian there are only 54 actual finished new
construction homes available under 300,000 and another 41 use d homes available.
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That's less than one month's worth of inventory. I believe BlackRock is succeeding with
this housing sale for two key reasons. Number one, buyers recognize the value of these
homes. They offer high a quality compact, low maintenance, carefully planned
development. BlackRock can do this because of their unique designs and carefully
planned out -- planned layouts, allowing them to buy more expensive land that is closer
into town, while passing lower prices on to the buyers. The landscape an d fencing is
always included. So, everything is complete when the buyer moves in . Number two.
These homes meet a price point that the average Meridian household can afford. Per the
city stats on the Chamber of Commerce's website the average Meridian household makes
just over 62,000 per year. That average household income can generally afford to
purchase a home priced between 260,000 and 295,000. Stapleton's housing product is
expected to meet that price point. It's housing style and neighborhood may not fit your
personal needs or demographic, but it may meet the needs of someone in your family.
Maybe your son or daughter who just recently graduated from college or got married and
wants to stay in Meridian or your brother or sister or is recently divorced trying desperately
to try to stay within the Meridian area to keep their school -- their kids in the same school
district, just giving them some stability. Or your mom who was recently widowed,
downsizing from the big home, looking for something that's more affordable, easy to care
for, with nice finishes. I have personally worked with each one of these demographics in
these neighborhoods and I believe that the Stapleton product will meet each one of these
demographics and demands. That's it. Appreciate it.
Johnson: Brittany Elliott.
Elliott: I'm Brittany Elliott. 2277 East Kamay Drive. I actually live in Verado Subdivision
as well. I am I guess meeting a different demographic. I am recently divorced, so I have
two small children, single mother, work full time. This subdivision really spoke to me,
because I don't have time to come home and do the lawn and take care of everything and
I just recently moved in and they have been awesome to work with. They were very fast
in getting into the house and I just really appreciate everything they have done for me and
I know that a lot of other people really like it, too. So, thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much.
Johnson: There were no additional sign-ins.
Fitzgerald: Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to testify on this
application? Please come forward, ma'am. Hi. Welcome to the Commission. Please
state your name and address of the record, ma'am.
Daily: I am Carol Daily and I live at 2192 East Kamay Drive in Verado. I'm the one that's
retiring in a week. Andy sold me my house. So, I found my house like in the nick of time,
because I am retiring. You know how hard it is to buy a house after you don't have a job
anymore. I looked off and on for five or eight years for a house to trade my house for --
within about the same price range. I had just about given up when I found Verado. Okay.
Now I'm getting really nervous. I had a corner lot with an unattached garage slash shop ,
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so I had the big yard and when it snowed I had a three car driveway and all that sidewalk
to shovel. I just can't do the work anymore. So, I was basically looking to downsize.
There were a few beat up old crappy houses in my price range and I wanted a house that
was at least as nice as the one I lived in and took care of them, live for 28 years. I found
that with Verado and BlackRock. My new home is affordable and beautiful and there is
almost no maintenance for me to worry about. And they have amazi ng finishes that I only
dreamed of. I have to believe that there is dozens or hundreds of people like me in the
Boise and Meridian area, kind of old and retiring and I can't do the work anymore. These
houses are perfect for people like me. I had just about given up on this dream when I
found BlackRock and Verado. Thanks.
Fitzgerald: We appreciate you being here. Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else that would
like to testify? Would the applicant like to come back and close the discussion. Or do
you have anything else to add, ma'am? Oh, anyone else have -- yes, ma'am. Please
come forward.
Perreault: I do have questions.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I'm on a roll tonight.
Fitzgerald: For not having a voice you're talking a lot.
Perreault: I know. I wasn't supposed to. Okay. My question is regarding the request of
the items to be modified. Number three on page 15 of the staff report. And on that page
it says per the applicant's narrative the following improvements are proposed to each
phase and in phase two it says that the applicant had proposed the installation of a traffic
signal in phase two. So, I would just want a clarification from you that staff had stated
that that was in the written narrative provid ed by the applicant that they would agree to
the installation of a traffic signal in phase two. So, has something changed since the --
the application was submitted?
Nelson: Commissioners, yes. Nothing had been discussed yet in enough detail with ITD
and ACHD. The agencies indicated that a signal is not warranted and so cannot be
constructed until it is warranted. Also we did ask to -- to make sure that we were only
being required to build what was necessary for our proportionate share and agencies
agreed and so it is still going to be done as soon as it is warranted and that requirement
is triggered with our connection to Harris. So, the timing is still there once it's warranted
and -- and it begins with that first final plat phase that touches Harris. So, that is still true.
Fitzgerald: And you're putting your funding in for the road trust to be able to pay that 25
percent; correct?
Nelson: Commissioners, that is correct. So, even if it's not warranted yet, upon that
phase two final plat we have to go ahead and provide our 25 percent of the signal into a
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road trust to them and, then, ACHD will collect all of the funds for the road trust, so that if
it's not warranted during our development, we are still on the hook for our share and, then,
they will work with the other developers to build the signal.
Perreault: Thank you. I wanted to make sure that was clear for the record .
Nelson: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Fitzgerald: Any other questions for the applicant? Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Just one more clarification question. So, the variance you're requesting is for
the access that's on this southern portion; right? For that full access? Not for the Harris
Street? Just to make sure I'm --
Nelson: Commissioners, Commissioner Holland, that's correct. The variance is just for
that one access point that we are asking to retain on the southern part of our property
onto 69. There is no variance needed at Harris.
Holland: And one more follow-up question.
Fitzgerald: Oh, absolutely.
Holland: How many units are coming in with the first phase on that variance request? I
know we don't decide the variance, but just so we kind of know on the phasing.
Nelson: I have that in here. Hang on just a second. I just -- there is not a fast -- okay.
Phase one, 52 units.
Holland: Okay.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Staff had mentioned that the fire department would like to keep the requirement
for the parking signs and the curb painting. Can you share your thoughts on that?
Nelson: Commissioner Perreault, I appreciate the opportunity to. We would just ask you
to modify that condition to say as required by the fire code and the building code , so that
in case the fire chief was mistaken on that being an and or an or we can provide the
necessary signs, but not paint the curb red.
Fitzgerald: You're willing to do one or the other, but rather not --
Nelson: We are willing to comply with the code. Absolutely.
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Fitzgerald: -- paint the curb. Okay.
Nelson: Yeah.
Perreault: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, are you good?
Seal: I am good. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much, ma'am. We appreciate it.
Nelson: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am.
Holland: I move we close the public hearing for Stapleton Subdivision, H-2018-0129.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion --
Seal: Second.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on H-2018-0129,
Stapleton Subdivision. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same? Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: The application is properly before you, Commissioners. Who wants to lead
off?
Holland: I led off the last two times.
Seal: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: I appreciate all the testimony and -- I mean, you know, with -- with the people that
fit the demographic of affordable, you know, quality home construction, I'm glad to see
something like this that -- that's out there and available. About the only concern that I --
that I have on this is the request for the variance to allow for -- you know, basically a
variance outside of what ITD is accepting at this point, which is, you know, all access to
-- to come in and out off of the -- off of the highway and I mean we had touched on it
before as far as, you know, we don't want to create another Eagle Road, basically, so --
and I think allowing that variance would send us in that direction on this, where we already
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have something that comes in on -- on Harris. Allowing people to go in and out in all
directions is, you know, something that would be a safety concern for sure and probably
point us in that direction where we don't want to go, which is, you know, building
something like an Eagle Road again.
Fitzgerald: I -- my only comment to that is for it to be a truly mixed use regional
development that -- that commercial use is going to have to have an access there. I mean
I think it's almost impossible for them to not -- I mean to bring it up to the midpoint and I
think what ITD will do is they will say right-in, right-out and, then, they will take away the
left turn in, so that they could -- it will only be right-in, right-out at the base of their
subdivision, give them another access. It's not our decision anyway.
Seal: Right.
Fitzgerald: It's the -- I think the City Council will make that decision, but I think the
challenging thing -- and I appreciate the folks from Hawkins being here to give us some
history. I think with their being a legal precedent on this, too, I think it's challenging for
me to hop in the mix and say that's not going to happen , but I have a tough time saying
that -- having a viable commercial entity there and not having access to the highway will
be challenging, but I don't think that's our call, unless you all want it to be. I -- to what
Commissioner Holland said, I think -- and I will lean to my realtor to the right and to my
lovely wife who sells these things -- zero lot line product and these types of products are
necessary right now. There is not enough product for -- at this price point in this valley
and it sounds -- I appreciate the folks from these subdivisions -- or these neighborhoods
coming to talk to us about what they are seeing in their neighborhoods, because I think
they are -- I appreciate they are letting us know they are building a good product and --
and hitting a certain group -- group that needs to be served and I -- so, I appreciate that
and I think this is where it fits. It's on a state highway. It's less dense than it would have
been with the current -- with what was being brought forward first and so I think it's the
right spot. There is -- there is certainty in there for the people around them . Across the
street is -- I think chicken coops, slash storage units, so I think if we are -- and I think this
is the right place for it. So, just my thought.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I have several thoughts and, then, a question for staff, so, please, bear with
me. Yes, as -- as an associate real estate -- real estate broker in this valley there is a
definite need for affordable housing and offices in downtown Meridian, so we are -- we
are selling here frequently, so it always makes us happy to see when there is additional
housing options that are added. So, as far as the -- as far as the -- I wanted to speak to
the -- the open space and the landscaping and -- and address that, because it is in the
staff report and the staff report talks about that there are sections that the staff doesn't
really consider to be qualified in the open space . I wanted to know if the -- if my fellow
Commissioners had any other -- had any concerns about that. After looking at everything
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that the staff had laid out, it still looks to me like there probably is sufficient open space.
So, I wanted to ask that question befo re -- before you respond. I also wanted to ask the
staff in -- in the staff recommendation on the -- in the staff presentation on the summary
here, I wanted clarification where you had said denial of the -- you're recommending
denial of the variance and, then, you recommend a change to the DA provision number
1-F, requiring a local street connection. Are those two things tied together, just not part
of the variance decision?
Allen: Madam Chair, they are all tied together. No.
Perreault: Okay.
Allen: Madam Chair, the variance staff is recommending denial of. The other change
was just a site modification based on code that staff saw after the report went out, but it
does specifically require local street connection, rather than just a vehicular connection
as the condition currently states.
Perreault: So, the UDC currently requires that street connection?
Allen: Yes.
Perreault: And so how do we -- I mean are we permitted to not require that as a -- or to
not recommend that that be required to City County?
Allen: I would defer to legal on that.
Perreault: Okay.
Allen: I know it's a code requirement.
Perreault: Just to understand how that would work or how we should go about --
Pogue: Can you repeat that?
Allen: Madam Chair. If I -- if I may. The UDC requires -- a local street connection to be
provided to adjacent -- let me -- let me bring the code up specifically and I will read you
exactly what it says.
Fitzgerald: So, we do have a local connection to the south.
Allen: So, all subdivisions must provide a local street access to any use that currently
takes direct access from an arterial or collector street. The adjacent property to the west
will take access from the collector street. Harris Street. It has no other public street
access. So, that's the reason that staff is requiring a vehicular connection and I just
explained to the Commission that currently the -- the condition reads a vehicular
connection should be provided. I asked for the Commission to change the wording on
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that to require a local street connection per UDC 11-3A3-A3. They wanted to know if they
can not require that.
Pogue: So, as Sonya just indicated, that -- the code requirement applies.
Perreault: So, there isn't any discussion for us to have, it just -- that is what it is. Okay.
I wanted to understand that. Thank you. So, I think that's -- that's just about everything
that I had initial questions or thoughts on. I'm still curious the commissioner -- my
Commissioners -- or should we have discussion on the landscaping?
Fitzgerald: I'm okay to have a discussion on --
Perreault: The open space.
Fitzgerald: I'm okay with the open space. I think -- we are not -- they weren't counting
that -- I think the applicant said 19 percent and as we take out the things that the staff
doesn't count we get down to that 13.9. It's above the ten percent. I think the -- that park
place in the middle provides that center point and I -- it's -- the walking area is -- I think is
awesome. So, I think the balance point there is -- especially if you have a retired
community, you have a place for the parks -- or for kids to play inside and you have lots
of walking areas for the folks, but that's just my thought. In regards to code versus
whatever, I think tying a fourplex, which has to come in for a conditional use permit into a
-- an apartment complex is an awful idea. So, I -- whatever code says I understand that,
but that's -- I think that makes no sense. So, I -- I think that's a train wreck at that
intersection waiting to happen. So, I'm not sure how to state that in -- and I can't make a
motion, so -- but I think that's for City Council to read my comments, I think that is an
awful concept. So, love my staff members, but I just don't think that's a good idea.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am.
Perreault: So, then, in that regard are you saying you would not -- that you don't like the
idea of multi-family anywhere in this or --
Fitzgerald: No. I think the fourplex units that have to come in -- and we are talking about
a local connector up there --
Perreault: Right.
Fitzgerald: -- where there is -- emergency access is bollards. It's access. We have a
local street access down to south that ties into Graycliff, but I don't think having an
apartment -- there was several -- I can't remember how many units. We are talking about
a hundred units or over a hundred units of apartment complex --
Perreault: In the R-40 --
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Fitzgerald: -- in the R-40 to the south, going up through a fourplex community, tying into
Harris. I just think that's an awful idea, so that's just my thoughts, so the Council can do
what they want in that situation. But if we don't have an access -- the ability to say
anything, they have that ability to change it if they want. Commissioner Perreault, do you
have any comments?
Perreault: You know, I just am -- what I am trying to understand is is it a matter of the --
the look or is it because the -- the two wouldn't be connected.
Fitzgerald; So, Sonya, can you bring that up, the Graycliff.
Perreault: It's not a traffic concern, it's --
Fitzgerald: It is a traffic concern, actually.
Perreault: Okay.
Fitzgerald: So, can you bring up the Graycliff exhibit that you have on there that shows
the other neighborhood next to it? So, this is all -- all that section in the first part is all
apartment -- that's all attached -- or I mean it's apartment complexes. I am correct; right,
Sonya? You're dumping that into the middle of a fourplex community.
Allen: Madam Chair, Commissioners, the property is zoned R-40. If I remember right,
though, the -- the Graycliff Estates originally came in with a preliminary plat and they
showed -- and a development agreement and they showed a concept plan that looked
like that or similar to that. They did come back in and resubdivide the property within the
last couple years, though, and I -- I'm pretty sure that with the development agreement at
that time they did not show a concept plan on the R-40 zoned portion. So, I -- I'm not
entirely sure how that will develop in the future, if it will be like it's shown or if it will be
different. They will be required to come back and do a conditional use permi t, though,
regardless.
Fitzgerald: We do have a local connection down to the south; correct? I mean going into
the Hawkins property itself, so does that not meet code? Just so I'm making -- make sure
I'm --
Allen: So, the reason for the code -- honestly, staff's fine with a vehicular connection.
Staff does believe there should be a vehicular connection. The reason being so that folks
over here don't have to go out of their development, back onto the collector street, out
and into this development. So, they can -- they are interconnected. The Comprehensive
Plan speaks to interconnectivity between developments, you know, but having said that,
the -- the code specifically requires a local street connection to properties that have
access from a collector street. This property here only has access from a collector street.
So, that's -- that's the reason for the code requirement. You know, Council and legal can
look at that more at Council. I don't have a problem -- I'm certainly willing to forward -- if
Commission doesn't feel there should be a connection forward that recommendation.
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Fitzgerald: I think there -- an emergency access, it makes total sense there, but having
it -- if that literally develops as an apartment complex -- I mean it's almost dumping into
apartment complex parking lot. I mean, I'm sorry, a fourplex parking lot that -- I mean that
just seems challenging.
Allen: If it's a local street connection it wouldn't be through the parking lot.
Fitzgerald: I understand that. I get that. It just seems like a challenge.
Allen: The design wouldn't change.
Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am. Any other questions? Commissioner Holland. Sorry. I will get
off my soapbox now.
Holland: I just wanted to go back to your earlier comment about the open space. There
was a note underneath the picture that said it was revised per the staff report
recommendation. So, I think we have kind of already covered that, but I think they have
offered a lot of good amenities. I like the walking paths around it. I -- when we are looking
at mixed use we certainly can't tie Hawkins to their development plan there, because they
haven't attracted tenants and we don't know what it's going to become , but I like the ability
to have denser population next two centers like that where they can walk, go get groceries
if we get a grocery store there, go get clothes, whatever it is that comes in there. So, I
think that's a good fit there. I would agree -- we heard a lot of residents talk about how
nice their facilities are. They have got a good reputation, BlackRock does, for -- for quality
construction with the upgrades. There is a need for a variety of housing. I know -- I just
looked at the stats from 2018 average prices of homes sold in Ada county and -- of new
construction and it was 399,000 for new construction average. So, certainly having a
housing product that's between the 200 to 300 thousand range would be attractive for the
community. I also like that they -- they didn't do a typical multi-family type project, but it's
more of a townhome feel, because I think it looks more attractive. I agree completely with
your comment that I -- I would rather see just an emergency access through that, because
it's always tough when you go through a multi -family complex into a bigger multi-family
complex and you have just got a lot of traffic going through there. So, that's a challenge
I agree with. I had one other comment, but I lost my train of thought, so -- Commissioner
Perreault, I know you had something to say.
Perreault: Mr. Chair -- now I'm losing my train of thought, too. So, I apologize if I'm
stumbling over my words right now. It -- but it is my understanding that -- that even though
maybe there is a preference for just the emergency access, we can't change the UDC
and so it sounds like that there won't be another option for the applicant , but to amend
the -- the plan to include that local street connection.
Fitzgerald: I think my comment there would be to work with -- have staff work before
Council to figure out something that's going to work there, because I -- and I think Council
can look at the picture and say either we know what's coming or we don't and let's figure
out a different way to do this. But I also think -- and I'm not sure how you read it, but there
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is a local connection down south on the Hawkins property that does meet code, so -- and
it will be in a gray area, but it will -- I will let you guys work that out, at least in my opinion.
Allen: Madam Chair. If I could clarify something. Just looking at the code --
Perreault: Please do.
Allen: -- a little bit closer, I'm sure the applicant would be happy for me to clarify. So,
looking at the -- the beginning of that section of code -- you always have to look at more
than just the -- you know, some of the provisions. So, the proceeding comments on the
code standard says: The following standard shall apply unless otherwise waived by
Council. So, there is a provision for a waiver in there. So, with that staff will withdraw the
request for a local street connection, but will stand with the vehicular connection. But you
can certainly make a recommendation to Council on that. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thank you for the clarification. Commissioner Perreault, did you want an
additional comment?
Perreault: Mr. Chair, no, I -- I'm very glad, though, that we --
Fitzgerald: Thank you.
Perreault: -- that we got that addressed, because that's pretty significant.
Fitzgerald: I appreciate you kicking the soapbox out from under me. Commissioner Seal,
did you have any additional comments?
Seal: I did. I just -- I wanted to go back to the variance and I wanted to basically better
understand that. So, exactly what -- what is being requested and what staff, basically,
said they -- they recommended denial of it, so I just want to understand exactly the
variance that's being asked for and the -- what would be denied.
Fitzgerald: Sonya, can you walk through that? What variance are you --
Seal: And I guess I'm just -- I'm thinking about the traffic on -- on the -- on the highway
itself and I -- and I understand that there is going to be other things that go in there, but
for the subdivision to go in there and just thinking of safety, because you're going to have
-- you know, if you got 50 some residents that are in there , you're talking 50 to 100 cars
coming in and out of there on a daily basis. So, I just want to make sure that I understand
what that variance is that has been requested and if it's denied what is denied. Is it like
denied access to the Highway 69 all together or it just isn't going to go with just what ITD
recommend, which is right-in, right-in -- right-in, right-out left-in.
Allen: Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair, Commissioners. The variance is specifically for
access to the state highway. It is at the quarter mile section. Our UDC specifically
prohibits access other -- other than at the half mile on state highways. So, in order to
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grant a variance there is three findings that they have to make and that is included in your
notes there. Anytime -- anytime we allow access to state highways it interrupts the flow
of the highway and it creates safety hazards for folks, especially when you have a full
access or left-in, left-out, you know, you have cars, you know, crossing traffic at high rates
of speed, 55 miles an hour. So, the police department had definite -- definite concerns
with that and they did not want the left-in access, even if the right-in, right-out is approved.
Staff doesn't, you know, necessarily have as much of an issue with the right -in, right-out
if it is designed to these standards with decel and accel lanes. However, our code does
prohibit it. So, staff can't -- can't support the variance. If Council supports it, they will
have to make those findings for approval of the varian ce and those -- if you would like me
to go through those real quick I can. It's -- it's -- where is it at? So, the variance can't
grant -- grant a right or special privilege that is not otherwise allowed in the district. The
variance relieves an undue hardship because of characteristics of the site and the
variance shall not be detrimental to the public health, safety and welfare . So, they have
to be able to make all three of those findings in order to grant a variance.
Fitzgerald: So, my questions --
Allen: If they deny the variance, then, there will be no access to the state highway.
Fitzgerald: My question becomes how does historic findings and how does historic
agreements come into play here. If you had -- I mean that's a done issue. So, there --
there -- because there were three --
Allen: The concern -- that approval for access went away with that annexation . They lost
their --
Fitzgerald: Okay.
Allen: -- their approval for access with the city. ITD is a different matter. You know, they
-- I -- I'm not sure legally what they have with that, but they didn't -- they chose not to sign
their development agreement --
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Allen: -- so everything that went with that approval went away.
Fitzgerald: At the city, but not necessarily at ITD.
Allen: Yes. They need approval from -- from the city and ITD for any access to the state
highways.
Pogue: Mr. Chair? If I could also direct you to the UDC 11H, development along federal
and state highways, which we are talking about. The code does allow that while staff
shall review all development applications for compliance with these standards -- and they
are saying they aren't met, the right-in, right-out, left -- the decision making body, which
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will be City Council, may consider and apply modifications to the standards of the article
upon specific recommendation of the Idaho Transportation Department. So, it -- so, they
have submitted a variance application, which City Council will consider, but according to
the UDC, City Council also has the authority, given the specific approval from ITD, to
consider waiving the standards and approving it.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Thank you so much for that clarification . I think that will make a significant
difference for us and maybe the applicant will breathe a sigh of relief . Thank you very
much for --
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Seal, did that answer your question?
Seal: It did. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Any other additional comments or thoughts?
Seal: I do not. Thank you.
Holland: Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I have a few additional thoughts.
Fitzgerald: Go -- go for it.
Holland: Can we flip back to the Graycliff match up to -- I know that was on the other
presentation, but -- sorry to make you keep flipping back and forth. So , looking at where
the collector road is, does that collector road that's on there right now that connects down
to Amity, does that road go through right now or is that something that's to be constructed
in the future?
Allen: Madam Chair. I don't believe it goes -- I'm not sure if it's been constructed yet or
not. I -- but I don't believe it goes clear through to Amity if it has. There is some
development property between there and Amity that's yet to develop.
Holland: Okay. One other thought I had, just looking at the way that the phasing of the
plot lays out. And I don't know if the applicant would even be open to this, but the
challenge is the number of ITD access points for me, too. I worry about having two access
points, because I read somewhere in the report that there were 11 accidents somewhere
in the last six months and 60 percent of those were injury accidents. There was
something in the report about that. So, it is concerning to see people -- and I know if they
restrict the left out onto Meridian that helps a little bit, but the west end of the
neighborhood still worries me a little bit. I just -- I just don't like seeing injury accidents
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on that highway if we can avoid it. But I was wondering if the applicant might be interested
in flipping the phasing and doing phase two first, which has the park in it, which would
also have that amenity there for the first residents that move in. Just as a thought. Again,
I like the development project. I think it's -- it looks like a well laid out plan. I like that they
have got single family on the perimeter. I think that makes a lot of sense and with that I
will just go back through these -- these notes. We can go back and talk about it, too. I
think we could strike the condition about the monotonous wall plains, because I think what
they are saying makes sense, that it's going to be single family with a stone wall. I don't
have a concern with needing to change the wall plains on those. Signal timing. I don't
have a huge concern with it, as long as ITD, you know, works with the applicant when
there is a need to have that signal -- signal light there, but if we had two access points --
I would almost like to see the second access point, the one that they are requesting a
variance for, come in when Hawkins Companies comes forward with their development,
because I think that would make more sense timing wis e. That was my only thought
there. Sorry, that's a lot there.
Fitzgerald: The one further south.
Holland: Yeah.
Seal: If that's something that -- I completely agree with that. If that's something that could
be, you know, brought in -- brought into the plan or they would be amenable to doing
phase two first, then, the timing of this would make a lot more sense, especially for asking
for that variance, especially if there is going to be further development in the southern
portion of this. So, again, you know, trying to make sure that, you know, this development
is going to be successful, but at the same time trying to make sure that we are keeping
everybody as safe as we can with the power that we are afforded as -- you know, that --
that makes sense to me as well. Just trying to bring that second phase in first and it
provides for the park as well, so --
Fitzgerald: While you're going down the list, do you have a problem or concerns or
thoughts on number four?
Holland: I think my thought on number four would just be that they would work with the
fire department to come up with what's amenable for what the fire department needs. So,
if the fire department comes back and says we really like the red painted cur bs, that they
would just work with fire department. I think they can figure that out.
Perreault: Mr. Chair, I agree with Commissioner Holland.
Fitzgerald: Do we want to reopen the public hearing so we can hear from applicant on
swapping.
Perreault: Sorry, say that again.
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Fitzgerald: Do we want to reopen a public hearing so we can talk to the applicant about
re -- or phasing? Swapping phases. Somebody want to make that motion?
Holland: Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I move we reopen the public hearing for Stapleton Subdivision, H-2018-0129,
to hear from the applicant as a clarification about phasing.
Fitzgerald: Got a motion. Do I have a second?
Seal: Second.
Fitzgerald: Got a motion and a second to reopen the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. Opposed nay?
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Welcome back.
Nelson: Members of the Commission, thank you. Appreciate the opportunity to weigh in,
but at this time, no, we are not interested in readjusting the phasing, because that access
remains critical to the development. So, delaying it doesn't change the need for it . We
need to proceed with the applications we have presented and it isn't just a variance we
have asked for, we actually have requested a modification, because we think that
provides the easier standards for the City Council. They don't have to meet the variance
standards that Sonya read. To waive that requirement it's plainly stated as the city
attorney noted. So, we think that -- that ITD has already looked at that safety record there
and that's exactly why the code allows a modification with an I TD recommendation. So,
we still are going to ask Council to approve that modification. We do want that access
point, we need it, and so that's the phasing that works best with that access. It doesn't
work to have Hawkins develop it, because it's on our property and because if we had to
wait for that we couldn't actually build out the development as planned, because we don't
know what their timing is. But I mean I appreciate you trying to work with it, so don't let
my no be unappreciative, but it just isn't going to work for what we have got planned.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Mr. Chair, just one more follow-up question. Do you have any indication on
what the timing would look like between phase one and two on development , how the
timing of those phases would play out?
Nelson: My understanding -- and you guys can nod or shake your head -- is that it's about
once per year. Right? Each -- come in -- okay. But one per season. So quickly.
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Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: Can you share more about the -- the multi-family? Is that going to be owned
by an individual owner investor? Are those going to be plotted with lots that are going to
be sold separately? Is it going to be a separate or subset of the overall HOA managed
differently? Is the same HOA going to manage all of it? Can you talk to us about that?
Nelson: Commissioners, I will take a stab at it and you guys jump up if I don't say
something you want. Okay. It -- it is on a single lot, so it won't be replatted. It is platted
as a single lot now with this development. Single owner is what I'm being told. And so
you will have some integrity of ownership and subject to the CC&Rs. And, you know,
appreciate the comments and discussion about whether it makes sense to put a roadway
there. Of course we certainly agree with the comments that it doesn't and would remind
you guys that there is an opportunity -- this Graycliff Estates is not yet built and that's
developed by all one party. So , the local road access can be put between those two
developments, the R-40 and the Graycliff Estates that's platted to the south, they already
have an opportunity to put their own local road in. The city didn't require it. It doesn't
mean they can't do it. So, that -- it's yet another reason why it doesn't make sense to
burden this development with it. It doesn't even add anything practically to cut off that
little corner. So, it doesn't meet the needs. But, anyway, we appreciate your
recommendation on that and your comments on that to the Council as well.
Fitzgerald: And you have to come back for a CUP on that multi-family here anyway;
correct?
Nelson: Commissioners, that's correct. We will be back for a CUP on that apartment
area.
Fitzgerald: Any additional questions?
Perreault: We really appreciate your patience with us getting it figured out.
Nelson: Thank you. Oh, not at all. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Bill. So, Bill has comments.
Parsons: I just want to remind you of your responsibility tonight. So , keep in mind -- I
appreciate you opening up the public testimony and asking the applicant what their
preference is, but you, as a body, can recommend them changing their phasing plan.
You as a body can recommend that the park happen with the first phase. So, I don't want
you to lose sight of that. That's something -- if they don't agree with it they can certainly
take up that change with the City Council as we go through the hearing process. Also
just for looking at the Graycliff Estates development agreement that was remote -- was
redone back in '18, although there wasn't a concept plan tied to that plat, there was a
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condition or provision in the development agreement that requires the multi-family to have
an access to Harris Street, which is a good thing, because it is going to be 200 plus units
at some point. But there was also a condition in there to have connectivity with the
adjacent uses in the area. So, although it's not one hundred percent set in stone for this
project, it was noted and it is tied in that development agreement . So, even though it
comes through this one or goes through Graycliff, we have got to get some connectivity,
as Sonya mentioned. So, just keep that in mind as you deliberate . So, again, you have
the ability to require phasing to be changed. You have the require -- the ability to require
certain amenities at a certain phase and don't lose sight of -- even though the variance
does come down to Council's discretion, ITD has always been supportive of the city's
decision. So, if -- we were at a pre-app the other day and they said whatever the city
wants they would support that position. So, I don't want anyone to lose sight just because
one agency says yes doesn't mean the city has to say yes. The other thing is with the
light at Harris. I know there has been quite a bit of discussion about that, but from good
planning practices and knowing what that -- the traffic on that roadway, if that access is
approved to Meridian Road, I believe the -- the -- it's my professional opinion that that
light should go in with the first phase of this development, because that's going to
minimize conflicts. You're going to be able to control the intersection and have traffic
going out of that right-in, right-out. ACHD has deferred to ITD on when those -- that traffic
signal is warranted. But, again, if that's something that you would like to see , that's a
recommendation you can make to City Council that the applicant put in that signal with
either the first phase or second phase. So, just something to --
Fitzgerald: Does Graycliff have any buy-in on that, too?
Parsons: All of those -- there is a lot a lots -- there is over 500 homes approved in that
area. Lots. And all of them are going to have to update traffic studies and provide that
information to ACHD and ITD as -- as -- as those homes come online. So, it's a timing
issue. It's whoever goes first. Who moves first and when the homes get built. So, it does
mean --
Fitzgerald: Graycliff has already been approved; correct?
Parsons: Has been --
Fitzgerald: So, they -- they aren't required to bring a --
Parsons: They get all the same conditions.
Fitzgerald: No. I understand what they were --
Parsons: Road trust.
Fitzgerald: Road trust.
Parsons: So, that --
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Fitzgerald: I get that. So, I guess it's a matter of time -- it's a matter of latecomers or how
do you want to do it?
Parsons: Yeah. If you pay into that pot and when it's warranted, then, it gets installed,
as you know. I will leave that up to you. That's all I wanted to comment on.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, sir.
Parsons: Thank you.
Perreault: Mr. Chair? So, to be clear, the -- if we recommend that the light be put in in
phase one or two, does that increase the cost to the applicant significantly? Because,
then, the road trust is not necessary and basically they are contributing 25 percent --
Parsons: Yeah.
Perreault: -- is my understanding.
Parsons: Yeah. Commissioners. Yeah. It does. It's -- it's a significant cost to put in a
signal and a lot of right of way to get looked as well, so it's something to take into
consideration. But, again, you're trying to weigh the public interest and public safety and
our fire -- our police department -- it says they don't like that access point, but they are
willing to concede with a right-in, right-out and so if that helps alleviate some of that
concern, that's within your purview. I can also tell you when Graycliff Estates came
through the second time, Commission and Council -- and Mayor and the Council did talk
about the improvements to Harris needing to happen sooner rather than later and this
applicant's proposing to do that at phase two. So, just something to take in consideration,
just to give you some of that history and context, too.
Perreault: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Sonya, I'm going to ask one random question. There is no decel or accel lane
that has been proposed along there, is there? I didn't read that. There is?
Parsons: Commissioners, yeah, that will be part of the mitigation requirements from IT D
as they analyze the traffic study.
Fitzgerald: So, decel and accel both? You have both? Okay. Thank you. That helps
me a little bit on the safety side. So, would we like to close the public hearing again? Or
do something else?
Holland: Do we want to finish deliberating while it's open in case we have any other
questions that pop up?
Fitzgerald: That is absolutely up to the Commission. That is definitely warranted.
Whatever you would like.
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Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
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Holland: Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I still would like to see phase two probably develop before phase one and I know
that's not the applicant's desire -- for the reason of safety, that I think having people funnel
through Harris and having Harris be an improved intersection, especially with the number
of homes being developed in that area. W hether they partner with Graycliff or whether
they partner with others to make that happen, I think that would be something I -- I would
be interested in seeing. I'm not opposed to them having the second access point . I would
prefer it to be a right-in, right-out type of situation, but they needed to build that second
access point in addition to have the roadway kind of funnel through both ways, even if
their phase one, as it's listed on here, doesn't develop right away. Does that make sense
what I'm saying? If the roadway could go through -- if they built the road for phase one
and phase two together, so they would have that access point still, but develop phase two
first? That doesn't make sense what I'm saying?
Fitzgerald: I'm trying to catch there, but I'm not -- I'm not following you.
Holland: If they are really interested in having that access point come in and they would
be willing to develop phase two first, but they could still build the roadway with the access
in, so they would have two access points. That still not make sense?
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: So, are you saying construct the road that connects the -- the entrance on --
on the highway and on Harris all the way through prior to any construction of any of the
lots? I'm not sure that works from an infrastructure standpoint.
Holland: I was just offering it as a suggestion, if they really wanted that second access
point and that was part of their -- they were worried about the timing of it.
Perreault: Okay. And question -- another question for you. When you're talking about
improving Harris first, I get what you're saying about all the rest of the -- of the traffic
coming through there and that being a safer way to do it. Are you also suggesting that
that signal go in in phase one?
Holland: I'm open to my Commissioners' thoughts on that.
Perreault: Because I don't -- I'm not seeing how it will really improve safety unless that
signal is there, but -- so, help me understand that, if you see how it would improve safety.
Seal: I think that it's -- I think that putting in a neighborhood right next to a busy highway,
you're going to have people coming in and out of it, warrants a stoplight. I say that,
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knowing that we want the least amount of stoplights possible there. That said, it makes
the safety concerns that I had basically start to go away at that point or go away and it
makes the access that's provided for directly from the state highway basically more
amenable to the subdivision itself, you know, right-in, right -- right-in, right-out, left-in, as
was recommended, because the stoplight is there to provide access that is going to
provide safe access, plus speedier access, which that's what everybody wants. I mean,
you know, a lot of people, unfortunately, are going to be willing to forgo safety to whip out
in traffic, you know, make a left-hand turn out of there and I think having the -- the stoplight
in at Harris is something that's going to help you get rid of that altogether . It -- to me it
just makes everything safer. Now, I mean as far as counting for the numbers and whether
or not it's necessary according to the numbers, I can't necessarily speak to that, I don't
know -- I don't know what the code is for that, but as I look at something, you know, from
a common sense safety standpoint, again, if you're going to put all these houses right
next to the highway and they need to come in and out of the highway, a stoplight makes
sense.
Fitzgerald: So, we are tacking the entire light onto this development, this -- I mean that's
what we are asking for. It's not just a road trust, we are asking for that to be built as this
neighborhood comes in. So, they are footing the bill and, then, having to go after
everybody else for money. I'm just making sure we all understanding that. Because that's
latecomers. That means they are putting it in and having to deal with trying to figure out
how they get money out of the road trust to pay for it. So, I mean this is -- I mean it's a
decent amount of rooftops, but I'm just making sure we are all on the same page. I mean
I -- so, thinking through this, were there -- in phase one they are going to put the entire
improvements on Meridian. So, we are flipping that now and we are not going to have an
improved road, we are flipping it to Harris and so they are going to improve there, but
you're going to have a nonimproved neighborhood frontage onto Meridian. So, you're
going to trade a little bit some things -- just so we are on the same page. Because that
-- what they are saying is there -- with phase one they are going to do the improvements
for phase three and phase one in that phase . So, you're going to have an improved
frontage along there, where the -- if we flip it, it will improve Harris, but you're going to
have an interesting view on the other side. So, just -- I mean I'm just throwing it out there
for comments, thoughts.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I am concerned about the signal. I -- I don't -- I'm struggling with -- with creating
undue cost to the applicant and I think it would be beneficial for the surrounding
neighborhoods to have to have a -- a monetary commitment to that light, but I also am
concerned about the safety. So, I don't have a specific answer for it and so we -- we
really have to decide what's the most important factor. Is it making sure that this
development can do what they want to do right now or the -- or the safety of the
surrounding area. But as far as the phasing goes, I -- I don't have any concern with the
phasing plan as they have proposed it myself and maybe it's because it's getting late and
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 72 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
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I'm not tracking with everything that you're sharing, but -- but I'm not seeing any concern
with how they have -- I understand from a real estate standpoint why they would want to
phase it the way that they phased it in terms of which properties get sold first and which
-- and -- and when your -- when your cost is accrued in relationship to the -- to the common
areas and stuff like that. So, I get why they are trying to do what they are doing and the
order they are doing it in. I think -- I just think the biggest concern safety wise is that light
or not the light versus whether the access -- and Bill's saying that he thinks the light should
go in phase one, because any -- that's going to create a stop for any traffic that's coming
south that will -- and, then, with that left-in, if that creates a stop, then, somebody can
make that left turn in the southern -- in southern entrance. So, for me the light is the
biggest factor and I would really like to see that light go in earlier than later, but I don't
have a -- an answer for how to not create an undue burden on the applicant.
Allen: Madam Chair? Excuse me. If I may shed some light on the cost of the signal.
Perreault: Please do.
Allen: ACHD's report cites specific condition of approval number one -- I will just read it
to you. It says: If and when ITD requires the applicant to install a signal, the applicant
will need to obtain plan approval and -- and a permit for ITD for installation of the signal
and enter into a signal agreement with A CHD. Although the applicant may be fronting
the cost of the signal, the signal agreement will allocate the proportional share of the
signal installation, with the applicant ultimately contributing 25 percent of the cost, with
another percent coming from the approved subdivisions to the west, Brundage and
Graycliff, and the final 50 percent coming from development located on the east side of
State Highway 69. The signal agreement will include a reimbursement mechanism to
allow the applicant to be reimbursed for a portion of the signal cost as they are collected
from the future developments. And, then, the applicant shall provide a road trust
deposited to ACHD in the amount of 62,500 dollars prior to signature of the first final plat
that takes access to Harris Street.
Fitzgerald: But you're still talking about latecomers. I mean they are -- they are fronting
the bill. That's the -- I mean the end -- and I have no idea when the property across the
street will -- I mean -- so, you're still talking about a couple hundred thousand dollars that
they are putting up in there to improve that -- I mean I -- and it's -- I'm willing to talk about
how we do that and when that needs to happen, but it's all latecomers.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Yes, ma'am.
Perreault: My expectation would be that it would be a significant amount of time after
they are done with all four of these phases before they would get reimbursed for that cost.
Fitzgerald: Probably.
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Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
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Perreault: Has there been an application put in for the property to the east?
Allen: No, ma'am.
Perreault: Okay.
Fitzgerald: And my understanding -- I think that property is owned by Simplot, if I'm not
mistaken. So, that may not happen in our lifetime. I'm joking. But we can't -- I mean --
Perreault: I mean I would hate for that to be the thing that would hang this up, because I
think all in all it's a good -- it's -- it's need -- it's -- it's needed. I think that they have thought
through a lot of -- a lot of -- you know, they thought it through and it's funny for staff to be
requesting a higher density. I know it's because of the zoning, but we don't -- we are not
usually coming across that, are we, where -- where we are talking about a lower density
in an area where we go -- we would go higher, but I think the way this is designed in that
particular area, it being midway between two arterials, is a good location. If we are going
to put residential on a state highway that -- that that would be the place that we would do
it. So, hopefully, those thoughts are clear, but I -- I mean I don't want that light to be the
hang up, but at the same time it's --
Seal: And, Mr. Chair, I mean the light's definitely a hang up and fronting the money for
that, you know, and the comments we are making about flipping -- which phase to go in
first and everything, I mean, essentially, what -- you know, I like everything about this
subdivision. Again, I have -- I know people that could definitely benefit from this. I mean
from -- you know, from being able to have access to housing -- you know, quality housing
like this. That said, if -- you know, to go back to -- you know, it could be somebody's
daughter, it could be somebody's son, it could be somebody's grandparent living in there.
If one of those people dies because they are dodging out in traffic that's not safe, that's
on us. So, for me, the light needs to go in and -- and the variance, you know, can --
because the light can go in conjunction with the variance. I mean , basically, you know,
we have said it, if the light's there that creates a stop, people can, then, safely come in
and out of that, simply because the light's there. The --
Fitzgerald: So, are you -- just real quick. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Are you
thinking you keep the same phasing and, then, require the light?
Seal: I don't know that you can keep the -- the same phasing, because -- I mean phase
one doesn't have access to the road to the north.
Fitzgerald: But you're causing a stop is what -- my understanding was what you said. I'm
just trying to understand what your logic is, so I can get there.
Seal: Right. So, I mean if -- if -- if you keep the phasing -- if you only -- if you go phase
one first, they don't have access to the road that would have the light on it.
Fitzgerald: Got it. Got it.
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Seal: So, that's, you know, why I think requesting that they do phase two first and the
light is going to make -- you know, from a safety standpoint that makes this work in my
mind, you know, and, again, this is -- this is something that's very real. I mean we all
drive these roads around here and -- I mean I can tell you from experience there has been
a lot of times when people are diving in and out of traffic either on -- I mean look at the
way that Eagle Road has shaped up now when they have safety berms all the way down
it just to prevent people from doing that very thing. You know, Chinden Road has a lot of
different access points right now where people are diving in and out. I mean anything
that we can do to help mitigate that from a safety standpoint I think is a good thing . Does
it put undue, you know, burden of cost on them? I don't know. You know, I don't know
what the cost of safety is and the fact of the matter is that they will reclaim the money at
a date to be determined, but that's nothing that we have control over.
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: You know, my -- my suggestion was -- to change the phasing was not something
that I'm set on by any means. I understand why they laid it out -- the phasing that they
did, too. My only concern was the same -- same thing we have been talking about as a
safety and just letting people be able to access it easily. Sometimes that road, coming
from people from Kuna, backs up all the way to Lake Hazel on busy mornings and so
even if -- I mean unless there is preventive barriers from making them -- not letting them
turn left there, people will still probably turn left and, then, merging those lanes. So, that's
my concern and that's why I think a stoplight would be warranted for that neighborhood
to try and help ease some of those safety concerns. My suggestion of carrying the road
through was just trying to figure out how we could connect the different phases to access
points. You know, if they decided they wanted to do phase one first and could continue
the road to connect to Harris, that might be another option as well. I wouldn't see a
concern with that either.
Perreault: Mr. Chair. So, it says in the staff report -- and the applicant had -- I had asked
the applicant about why the change had been made from the original comment that they
would be willing to put the light in to -- to the modification they are requesting and so I
would assume that with their original application that they had counted the cost that --
that it would take to put that light in, because that was originally in their proposal when
they sent their original letter in and I would imagine that they are requesting the
modification, because it is much more cost effective for them not to have to do it until a
later date and I get that. But -- but I'm sure they probably figured out the financial piece
before they submitted their application and so that being said I wonder if they haven't
already -- hadn't already originally planned on having that be a cost involved in it. We
would rather not, which is completely understandable, do it in the earlier phases. So, if
we are talking about the financial burden it may create for them, they did submit an
application agreeing to that at the front end. So, just -- just throwing that out there.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 75 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
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Fitzgerald: Someone formulate something into a thought process, because I can't make
any --
Holland: We are all over the place.
Seal: I can tell you this won't be my first motion. Oh, my gosh.
Holland: Okay. Well, let's go back and go over the easy stuff really quick, so we can
make sure we have got that down of what we want to put in the motion. So, the first
request that they had was a vehicular connection to the west. Staff seemed amenable to
removing that condition and just making that emergency access point. So, we could make
that --
Fitzgerald: I think Sonya said vehicular connection not local street.
Holland: Okay.
Fitzgerald: And my only comment on that as we are going through is I still think that's
taken care of lower in the -- in the property down south, but we can deal with that later.
Holland: Okay. So, do we need to deliberate further on that? They would still be required
to have a vehicular connection to the west, but we would remove the condition that they
had to go through that apartment complex? Is that what we are saying?
Fitzgerald: I don't think we can. I think that's up to Council.
Holland: Yeah. Sonya, could you rephrase what you said earlier.
Allen: The staff's condition as written just requires a vehicle of connection between -- let
me pull up their -- their map real quick. We keep going back to this one. A vehicular
connection -- and it doesn't have to be in the -- in the multi-family section, I mean it could
be over here, it could be in alignment with their existing one. The reason why the one in
-- in relying on this for access down here is it doesn't accomplish the purpose of the
vehicular connection here. This property -- the only access it has is to the collector street.
When this development went in -- Northwest Pipeline does not like anymore crossings
than necessary over their big gas pipeline. Staff did not require them to provide vehicular
connectivity between these two because of that reason. There is an emergency access
between the two, you know, for fire access, but that's the reason that there is a vehicular
connection requirement here is --
Fitzgerald: So, per your comment, the challenge I have there is now we are -- we are
making the burden shift to a different developer. That's a problem. I mean -- well, you're
-- you said you didn't require access across the pipeline, because they don't like access,
but you're now requiring it of the new developers?
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Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
February 21, 2019
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Allen: No. This -- Graycliff Estates, when that came in, there is a provision in their
development agreement that requires vehicular interconnectivity with adjacent properties.
That is a Comprehensive Plan guideline and UDC standard.
Fitzgerald: It's the connection to the surrounding properties, which you have to the south;
correct? That's -- the way you read it was there was t wo connecting -- to the other
properties surrounding it. That was -- at least that's what Bill said I think. So, the one to
the south doesn't count?
Allen: We did not require a connection over the gas pipeline, because Northwest Pipeline
did not want any more accesses than already proposed with this development . So, no,
there would not be a vehicular connection to the west, except for the emergency access.
That's why it's important to have one from -- to the east. It is -- it is the Council's call, but,
you know, staff has to make recommendations based on our Comprehensive Plan and
our code.
Fitzgerald: I -- absolutely. Absolutely. I don't know how to answer that one for you.
Holland: So, to recap, we would need to leave that in there?
Fitzgerald: I think it's Council's call.
Holland: Okay. So, we wouldn't put that in our motion at this point. Okay. Item two that
their request was about the monotonous wall plains. I have no problem removing
condition 1-E, unless the Commissioners have concerns with that.
Seal: No problem.
Perreault: I have no concerns.
Fitzgerald: She's good.
Perreault: Is my mic -- oh, it is on?
Fitzgerald: It's on. You're good.
Holland: Page 15. Signal timing. That's what we keep going back to, so I'm going to
skip that one for a second. And number fo ur their request was no parking signage. My
-- my note would just be that they would work with the fire department to find something
that would be amenable on page 39 out of nine.
Fitzgerald: I'm amendable to that as well.
Seal: Yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 77 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
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Page 75 of 79
Holland: So -- okay. We figured out one, two and three. Or one, two and four. Now we
just need to figure out what we want to do with number three . Signal timing and if we
instruct them to do certain phases first or what needs to be done first.
Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I would like to leave the staff report as stated where it recommends that -- the
-- did you -- were you going to say something? Oh, I'm sorry. I -- I'm hearing things. I
wanted to -- I would recommend that we leave it just as it's written , which -- which
suggests that the -- the signal go in in phase two. I think that's already written in there
that way on page -- page 15.
Seal: Mr. Chairman. Would we want to -- if we are going to leave it as is, would we want
to make the recommendation that phase two go in first? Because, again, if we -- if they
don't get the variance granted, then, phase one doesn't work. I mean I'm looking at it
from that standpoint as well. If you have phase one, the variance isn't granted, they don't
have the access to the street that has the -- you know, the light provided, then, there is
no access to phase one.
Fitzgerald: And my guess is that if they don't get the access, the variance, they don't
have a project.
Seal: Exactly. Right. So -- so -- so, I mean to me if they don't have the variance, which
basically kind of hinges on the light to me, they are going to have to do phase two first.
Fitzgerald: Well, I think the variance is not necessarily just the light, it's the connection
down below, too.
Seal: Correct.
Perreault: The south access.
Fitzgerald: It's the south access.
Seal: Right. But in my mind it all ties together, again, for the safety component. You put
the light in, it makes the variance more amenable, because, then, you're creating a stop.
Perreault: Mr. Chair? It's my understanding from the applicant that if the variance is not
proposed that -- that that would --
Fitzgerald: It's a done deal.
Perreault: -- it's pretty much -- they are pretty much not going to proceed, because then
-- and I don't want to speak for them, but, then, they -- well, just the one access -- access
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 78 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
February 21, 2019
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onto Harris isn't going to work and, then, the light will be a moot point if the variances isn't
granted.
Seal: Right. And --
Perreault: Because they need --
Seal: I think we are all saying the same thing --
Perreault: Well -- because this is a mixed use, so that -- that -- this is the residential piece
of what's going to be a future larger development and so if that varian ce isn't granted to
give -- to give access to the southerly portion, then, I don't -- they are going to have to all
-- they are going to have to modify what they are doing.
Seal: Right. And that's -- that's basically what we are saying, is that -- I think that if the
variance is going to be granted that the stoplight has to go in. That's -- that's as clean a
point as I can make on that.
Holland: Mr. Chair?
Perreault: I understand what you're saying.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I'm going to circle in and out, again, for a second here. They -- they had
mentioned that there is 52 units in the first phase.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Holland: It's not as significant amount as some subdivisions that we have seen with
needing access. And, again, if they don't get the variance request, they are not going to
be able to move forward on the project. Phase two -- I'm not sure -- I don't remember
how many units come in phase two, but with phase two was the requirement of the
stoplight. So, I might be okay seeing phase one go forward without the stoplight , because
it's only 52 units. I would hope that ITD would work with making sure that that connection
point is safe, whether that means preventing left turns and making that a right -in, right-
out only, which makes it inconvenient, but still safe.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Holland: I would hope that ITD would -- would work with the applicant on what safety
measures were required there.
Fitzgerald: With the decel and acceleration lanes you have a little bit of a buffer there ,
so I think that would -- I mean it -- it provides that area of safety, so that people aren't
darting into traffic, they have a merge lane, if you will.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 79 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
February 21, 2019
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Perreault: Mr. Chair?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I can't speak to the directions the cars are moving consistently on, but my
guess is that there is probably not a lot of traffic coming from the south that's going to turn
left into that development. So, I mean probably not. It's not likely. Most of the traffic
coming from the south is heading into Meridian, so --
Fitzgerald: I heard that Commissioner Holland is bring 6,000 jobs to Kuna.
Perreault: And they are all going to move here.
Fitzgerald: Exactly. So, I'm not sure of -- well, maybe.
Perreault: Congratulations.
Fitzgerald: And so, no, I -- I think you're correct.
Perreault: So, I'm not as concerned about that left-in element.
Holland: So, all that to be said, thanks for the discussion. I think we have covered all of
our bases of things that could be considered for this. If I can recap what we have talked
about. Number two, we would help them waive number four. We would ask them to work
with the Fire Department. Number one, we would leave it as it says in the staff -- staff
report. Number three we would leave it as it says in the staff report.
Fitzgerald: That would be -- that would be okay with me.
Holland: Any other discussion or -- someone want to attempt to make a motion or is that
me?
Fitzgerald: It's all you.
Perreault: You're doing great.
Seal: You're doing a great job. Yes.
Holland: After considering all staff, applicant -- oh, wait. We need to -- Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I would move we close the public hearing for item H-2018-0129, Stapleton
Subdivision.
Perreault: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 80 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
February 21, 2019
Page 78 of 79
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Holland: Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval to City Council of file number H-2019-0129 for Stapleton Subdivision as
presented in the staff report for the hearing date of February 21st, 2019, with the following
modifications: That on page 27 -- or 37 of the staff report, condition 1-E, that condition
will be struck, since the applicant is putting single family -- or single level units on that
side and that the -- Item No. 9 on page 39 about the no parking signage, that the applicant
would just work with the Fire Department to come up with an amenable solution for what
would be -- what made them feel comfortable there.
Perreault: Second that motion.
Fitzgerald: I have a motion and a second to recommend approval to City Council for file
H-2018-0129. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Thank you for
sticking with us.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Last motion.
Holland: Mr. Chairman?
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I move we close the public hearing for --
Fitzgerald: Could I adjourn instead?
Holland: -- February 21st --
Fitzgerald: Could I adjourn instead?
Holland: Yes. Adjourn. Adjourn. I move we adjourn.
Perreault: Second that motion.
Fitzgerald: All those in favor of adjournment say aye. Motion to adjourn is approved.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 7, 2019 – Page 81 of 101
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
February 21, 2019
Page 79 of 79
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:56 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
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