2018-12-20
Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting December 20, 2018.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of December 20, 2018, was
called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Rhonda McCarvel.
Members Present: Chairman Rhonda McCarvel, Commissioner Bill Cassinelli,
Commissioner Ryan Fitzgerald and Commissioner Lisa Holland.
Members Absent: Commissioner Steven Yearsley, Commissioner Gregory Wilson and
Commissioner Jessica Perreault,
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Andrea Pogue, Sonya Allen, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance
__X___ Lisa Holland _______ Steven Yearsley
______ Gregory Wilson ___X___ Ryan Fitzgerald
______ Jessica Perreault ___X___ Bill Cassinelli
___X___ Rhonda McCarvel - Chairman
McCarvel: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I would like to call to order
the regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission on
December 20th, 2018, and will begin with roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
McCarvel: Thank you. At this time the first item on the agenda is the adoption of the
agenda. We do have a request for continuance on Item 4-A, the hearing for Bainbridge
Franklin No. H-2018-0057. So, that item will be opened only for the purpose of continuing
and so there will be no testimony taken on that application this evening. So, could I get
a motion to adopt the agenda as amended?
Holland: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 4 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 2 of 64
A. Approve Minutes of December 6, 2018 Planning and
Zoning Commission Meeting
McCarvel: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and we have one item on the
Consent Agenda, to approve the minutes of the December 6th, 2018, Commission
meeting. All those -- could I get a motion to accept the Consent Agenda?
Holland: So moved.
Cassinelli: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda. All those
in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
McCarvel: At this time I would like to briefly explain the public hearing process for this
evening. We will open each item individually and, then, start with the staff report. The
staff will report their findings regarding how the item adheres to our Comprehensive Plan
and Uniform Development Code with staff's recommendations. After the staff has made
their presentation, the applicant will come forward to present their case for approval of
their application and respond to any staff comments. The applicant will have 15 minutes
to do so. After the applicant has finished we will open to public testimony. There is a
sign-up tablet in the back as you entered for anyone wishing to testify. Any person
testifying will come forward and be allowed three minutes. If they are speaking for a larger
group, like an HOA, and there is a show of hands to represent that group, they will be
given up ten minutes and there is a timer on your screen and a quiet bell will signal the
end of your time. After all testimony has been heard, the applicant will be given another
ten minutes to have the opportunity to come back and respond if they desire and after
that we will close the public hearing and the Commissioners will have the opportunity to
discuss and, hopefully, be able to make a recommendation to City Council.
Item 4: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Bainbridge Franklin (H-2018-0057) by
Steve Bainbridge, Located at 2075 and 2155 W. Franklin Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 3.68 acres of land with a
C-G zoning district
McCarvel: So, at this time I would like to open the public hearing for Item H-2018-0057,
Bainbridge Franklin.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 5 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 3 of 64
Fitzgerald: I move to continue file number H-2018-0057 to the date of January 3rd as
requested by the applicant.
Holland: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to continue item H-2018-0057. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
B. Public Hearing Continued from November 15, 2018 for
Alpina Townhouse Subdivision (H-2018-0090) by A Team
Consultants, Located NE of W. Ustick Rd. and N. Linder Rd.
1. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 15 multi-family
building lots and 7 common lots on 3.99 acres; and
2. Request: Conditional Use Permit For a multi-family
development consisting of 60 multi-family residential units
within 15 multi-family structures on 3.99 acres of land in an
existing C-C zoning district; and
3. Request: Modification of an Existing Development
Agreement to change an existing development agreement to
change the previously approved concept plan with a new
concept plan
McCarvel: So, we will move on and continue the public hearing from November 15th,
2018, Item H-2018-0090, Alpina Townhomes -- Townhouse Subdivision and we will begin
with the current staff report.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. There is two applications
before you tonight. There is a request for a development agreement modification that
does require Council action, that does not require Commission action. There is a
preliminary plat and conditional use permit before you tonight. The site consists of 3.99
acres of land. It's zoned C-C and located at the northeast corner of North Linder and
West Ustick Roads. This property received annexation and short plat approval back in
2014 as Sugarman Subdivision, but never developed. The Comprehensive Plan future
land use map designation is mixed use community. The applicant is requesting approval
of a preliminary plat. This is just -- let me detour here for just a second. This is a copy of
the previous site plan -- and I will get into this revised site plan later. I apologize, I am
presenting for someone else tonight and it looks like that the preliminary plat didn't get in
here, but it appears that the lot lines are shown on here, so we should be good on that.
The applicant is requesting a preliminary plat, a development agreement modification,
and conditional use permit application to develop their proposed multi-family lots with 60
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 6 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 4 of 64
dwelling units. The overall gross density of the project is 15 units per acre. On November
15th the Planning and Zoning Commission continued this project to allow the applicant
time to coordinate the design of the project, so it would better -- provide better integration
with the surrounding underdeveloped county property. Items for discussion included a
cross-access with adjacent properties. A public street extension with ACHD. Possibly
floating the mixed use community designation onto the northern property to allow this
property and surrounding properties to develop with a mix of uses consistent with the
Comprehensive Plan. So, I'm going to back up for a minute. It looks like that's the one
that you reviewed last time it was before you and since that time the applicant has
submitted a revised plan as shown. Since the last public hearing the applicant has met
with ACHD and the surrounding property owners. Those conversations have resulted in
modifications to the site plan plat, which has been included as part of the public record
and as shown. Changes to the plan include reorienting several of the buildings to the
northwest and southwest corners. Removal of the access to Linder Road. More open
space and amenities and cross-access drive aisles along the north project boundary.
Further Ada County Highway District indicated that a public street is not desired with the
construction of a development and staff did -- did receive an e-mail from the buyer of the
Vogel property supporting the location of the northern driveway location. In discussions
with the applicant cross-access will be provided to the east property boundary for
interconnectivity. The applicant has also provided a conceptual road layout that depicts
how the adjacent properties could potentially redevelop -- develop and provide
interconnectivity and that's shown there before you. In reviewing the record the
Commission was supportive of floating the mixed use community designation across the
Vogel property to ensure a broad mix of uses develop in this area. In the Commission
deliberation it was discussed that commercial could develop along Linder Road, with
better access away from the intersection. Based on those discussions, the applicant has
not incorporated another land use within the proposed development. Staff finds that the
applicant has addressed most of the concerns discussed during the last meeting. Staff
is supportive of the new plan. However, conditions of approval have not been
incorporated into the staff report due to staff's recommendation for denial of the project.
If the Commission determines a single use is appropriate for this site and recommends
approval of the project, staff has prepared conditions of approval for the Commission's
consideration. Written testimony has been received from Dave Manning on this project
and staff is recommending denial, as I mentioned.
McCarvel: Any questions for staff? Sonya, is the main condition that you're
recommending denial over just the lack of multiple uses?
Allen: Yes. Yeah. It is a mixed use designation.
McCarvel: Okay. Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Arnold: Madam Chairman, Members of the Commission, for the record Steve Arnold. A
Team Land Consultants. 1785 Whisper Cove, Boise. 83709. As Sonya has reiterated,
we did -- since the time of our last hearing we did meet with ACHD. We looked at the
option of a driveway -- or a public road on Linder and onto Ustick and it was reiterated
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 7 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 5 of 64
that those were much too close for public street connections. They have given me the
direction that there will most likely be a street that aligns with the road on the south side
of Ustick as depicted in my conceptual layout there and that the next full access would be
at least 600 feet north and that's how I kind of laid out that vision and what I have seen
how the area developed. As a part of the layout we also did meet with the owners to the
north and discussed where to locate the drive aisle and at that time, too, we discussed
about eliminating the driveway out to rot Linder, so that we could get another right-in,
right-out further to the north onto their property. As part of the redesign we did drop two
of the -- the duplex building and the six-plex building and replaced it with the four-plex
and, then, increased the open space in that general area. The overall amenities for the
rest of the site that -- we are still keeping the putting green, the community garden and
the dog park gazebo area, along with increasing the amenity there towards the west.
Those were the main changes. I think staff reiterated most of everything that has occurred
on the property. We have read through all the draft conditions and it was my
understanding that staff was now recommending approval of the modification pending the
Commission approving floating that mixed use as mentioned. So, with that being said I
will stand for any questions.
McCarvel: Any questions for the applicant?
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Steve, can you repeat that last -- the last thing you said? You were under the
impression that you were -- that they were going to approve it based on --
Arnold: In the -- in the staff memo that was prepared --
Cassinelli: Uh-huh.
Arnold: -- it said -- it stated that staff was supportive of the modifications and the new site
plan.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Steve, one question for you. I know one of the things we asked when this was
before us for the first time was having conversations with the neighbors of what their
potential development plans would be and how they might integrate in. Could you share
a little bit more about, you know -- I know you removed some of the commercial piece
that was on here. Did they indicate that on the northern piece that they would want to do
more commercial?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 8 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 6 of 64
Arnold: Madam Chair, Commissioner Holland, I don't think their -- their main focus is on
the commercial. In our -- in the discussions I met with actually the buyer and the
developer who is buying it and will be developing it and we went over some of these
concepts with them and at the time they were supportive of them. They are here tonight
to offer testimony as well.
Holland: Okay. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Sonya, just for clarification, so as Steve has said, it says that the staff is in
support of the new plan. Can you clarify, just so we are all on the same page in regards
to -- we understand that there is conditions of approval that are not in the current staff
report, but does that change your recommendation or is there just -- you're okay with the
new plan if we want to move forward with the floating of the mixed use?
Allen: Madam Chair, Commissioner Fitzgerald, yes, staff is supportive of the revised plan
if the Commission determines that single use is appropriate on the property.
McCarvel: All right. Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you. Do we have any
public testimony?
Johnson: Madam Chair, they are no sign-ins.
McCarvel: No sign-ins. That being said, is there anyone in the room who wishes to testify
on this application? Certainly. Come forward. Please state your name and address for
the record.
Ferney. Greg Ferney. 4549 North McKinsey Lane in Boise. 83703.
McCarvel: Will you step closer to the mic.
Ferney: Sure. I apologize for that. Anyhow, I am one of the developers on this particular
property to the north and so I was not -- I have another two individuals that I'm doing this
with. I was not present at the meeting with Mr. Arnold, but what I would propose for today
-- certainly based upon the staff's recommendation is we feel like we need a little bit more
time with Mr. Arnold, both of -- our engineer and architect in order to have the proper flow
and make sure that certainly the development that he does will be -- if nothing more at
least neutral to what we are proposing as well. So, at this point right here we would just
ask for additional time to do that with Mr. Arnold. Thank you.
McCarvel: I do have a question for you. About what is the percentage of you thinking on
that development for commercial and -- versus residential?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 9 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 7 of 64
Ferney: That's a very good question. We have two different paths that we are looking to
go down right now. One, candidly, would have much less commercial on that particular
site and it would be more residential in nature, depending upon, again, which path that
we are going to go down, you know, one would be certainly more commercial, one would
be more residential, but that's kind of in the beginning stages right now and so we just
need additional time, you know, not even very long, but just so that we can make sure
that we are all on the same page and develop that -- you know, our 13 acres that goes
well with what Mr. Arnold is wanting to do as well.
McCarvel: And how much time are you thinking?
Ferney: If we could have -- I know we got the holidays and Christmas and New Year's,
but we need to have our engineer to put -- and the people to put together the site design
already for ours, I'm hoping if we had three weeks that we would be able to -- that would
be ample time.
McCarvel: Thank you. Any other questions for this person? No? Okay. Thank you.
Ferney: Thank you.
McCarvel: Anyone else in the room wishing to testify on this application? Okay. Would
the applicant like to come -- oh. Sure.
Brown: For the record Kent Brown, 3161 East Springwood. As I look at the site and --
and if I was asked to try to put commercial there, it's kind of really difficult -- commercial
or even an office and the reason being is the access. You can't have access to Linder
Road. The highway district's making us be 660 feet away from those intersections
anymore with access. Me and my wife had a gift and flower shop in Meridian and we did
better when they can see our place and how you get to the front door and we ended up
being in the little farmhouse there off Fairview and we had so many people that just -- you
would think that going right straight into the barn and going over 25 feet was pretty easy
for them to find us, but it was difficult and as I look at that, having that other kind of use is
kind of difficult, but that's probably why it hasn't developed. Just my experience. Thank
you.
McCarvel: Thank you. Would the applicant like to come forward.
Arnold: Madam Chair, I guess in response to one of the buyers there, I did meet with the
other two. At that time they were in concurrence with that. What I would request that the
Commission finds that this use is appropriate for that corner, perhaps instead of table it,
condition us to have something, you know, ironed out with the owners prior to the City
Council meeting and -- because it's basically all -- I could locate that northern cross-
access pretty much anywhere on our site and it doesn't affect unit count, parking or
anything, for that matter, or fire. I don't know if I presented that earlier. I did meet with
fire and they were in agreement with the elimination of the driveway on Linder. So, it
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 10 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 8 of 64
doesn't affect anything, other than what may or may not happen to the north. So, I would
request that if the Commission finds that use compatible, that you condition as an
additional condition that we coordinate an agreed upon location. I apologize, but I thought
we had that before coming here.
McCarvel: Well, I'm thinking -- I mean the other big part of this is not just the access, but
their willingness to let that commercial -- the commercial use float up to their property, but
-- I mean that's one of the -- and I agree that the commercial probably doesn't work best
down in this corner, but with you guys having the properties that kind of need to work
together to make that all happen. But we can decide that in deliberation, so -- any other
questions for the applicant?
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Steve, one of the things looking back on -- I think from a couple -- last month,
you had also -- we were talking about up front -- right there, right in the corner of Ustick
and Linder, to have some commercial in there. An office building, something of that
nature. Is that -- we did talk about that; correct?
Arnold: Madam Chairman, Commissioner Cassinelli, yeah, we did -- there was that
discussion and, then, in closing it was brought back up and I wanted to ascertain from the
Commission at that time as to -- you know, my drawing is going to come back, I'm going
to show all of -- of multi-family use and it was my impression from the Commission at that
time that that wasn't -- that was an acceptable use. Granted it was never voted on, but it
was the direction. Otherwise, I would have looked at different options that possibly putting
commercial, but, again, it's not the best location for it due to the access.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: One more quick question about parking. It looks like you're proposing 143
parking spaces when there is 120 required and our UDC code requires one covered
space per unit, I believe, of the two parking spaces. Can you help us see -- are any of
these planned to be covered spaces, too?
Arnold: Yeah. Madam Chair, Commissioner Holland, 50 percent will be covered as code
requires. We usually don't indicate that until usually at design review.
McCarvel: Any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you. All right. There
being no other questions for the applicant, could I get a motion to close the public hearing?
Fitzgerald: So moved.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 11 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 9 of 64
Cassinelli: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing -- okay. Yeah,
sure.
Fitzgerald: I will remove my motion, Madam Chair.
McCarvel: All right. Thank you.
Fritz: My name is Cindy Fritz and I am at 4400 West Pasadena Drive, Apartment 45, in
Boise, Idaho, and I represent the owner -- or current owner of the north property. So, I
was at the hearing as well two weeks ago and my remembrance of that is that you were
requesting both properties to kind of work together and ensure that there was mixed use
on both properties. You know, we had talked about maybe putting some commercial on
the corner and that it would have access through some of this connectivity that you were
requesting. I think I would agree with sitting back and letting both properties kind of work
together and ensure maybe we can have mixed use on both properties with the
connecting roads and I think it would be in everybody's best interest to ensure that we
have kind of one plan and that was something I also heard from you guys is let's sit back
and instead of doing this piece by piece, let's look at it as one piece, so we can have kind
of a good thought process. Thank you for your time.
Fitzgerald: Thank you, ma'am.
McCarvel: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I would move we close the public hearing on 2018-0090.
Cassinelli: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on H-2018-0090.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I -- Steve, I really appreciate the work you did and I think you took our
comments and went back to them. I tend to think that this is going to be hard to put
commercial, really, on that hard corner, but I also -- I don't want to delay you anymore,
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 12 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 10 of 64
but I do think you -- having a conversation between the two parties is important in this
piece of property, especially with the connectivity to the projects to the northeast, too. So,
that's my -- I would like to see what the whole thing looks like when they are -- after they
get done having a conversation.
McCarvel: Yeah. I would tend to be in agreement. I think this has sat -- sat vacant for a
long time and undeveloped and I think it's too small pieces of property that probably work
together better as one just because of the access and the mixed use designation. So, I
think just taking a -- just tapping the brakes just a little bit --
Fitzgerald: A little bit more time.
McCarvel: -- and letting both properties workout and present their cases.
Cassinelli: I would agree on the time aspect. I would disagree a little bit on the -- on the
commercial aspect on the hard corner. If you look to the north to McMillan and Linder, all
four corners there are commercially developed and access doesn't seem to be an issue,
but I do -- we did talk about that at the last hearing on this, that we wanted them to work
together.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
McCarvel: Yeah.
Cassinelli: They have had little conversations, but they are not -- I think the whole idea
is to really sit down and plan it as --
McCarvel: Yeah.
Cassinelli: -- as almost one --
McCarvel: Yeah.
Cassinelli: -- project.
McCarvel: Because this piece of property on its own doesn't have the access that I think
commercial would require, but if they work together I think that --
Cassinelli: If they work together they can get it. They can get that 660 feet.
Fitzgerald: And that's -- Madam Chair, I think that's my -- I -- the commercial needs to go
here somewhere, I just don't know if the hard corner would be the best place for it. It --
maybe it floats up here to give them more access. So, I -- but I think it goes back to the
conversation that needs to happen.
McCarvel: Yeah.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 13 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 11 of 64
Fitzgerald: So --
McCarvel: Okay. Would somebody like -- Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Madam Chair, I was just going to -- I was going to echo both the comments that
were made, too. I -- I -- I like mixed use developments and I think it would be good to
make sure we have some commercial element in there --
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Holland: -- especially being near proximity to the school that's just to the north of both of
those parcels there. I -- I like a lot of elements of the way that this was designed and I
think we all agreed on that last time, too, that there is some great green space or some
great creative amenities. The development project in itself I don't think there is a huge
concern with it. It's just more of the interconnectivity and making sure that we have got a
true mixed use project between the parcels surrounding this site. So, I echo what you all
said.
McCarvel: Okay. That being said, would somebody like to make a motion?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair, do we have a date certain? Don't -- January --
McCarvel: I think they have asked for --
Pogue: Madam Chair, I would remind you to open the hearing if you intend to continue.
McCarvel: Okay.
Fitzgerald: Thank you very much.
McCarvel: Thank you. So, it would be January 17th or February -- 2016. That's doesn't
help.
Fitzgerald: When we reopen the public hearing we will ask Steve.
McCarvel: Okay.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I move that we reopen the public hearing on H-2018-0090 with the intent of
my motion to continue it, but to get feedback from the applicant on what date would work
best for him.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 14 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 12 of 64
Cassinelli: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to reopen the public hearing. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Cassinelli: Do we need both -- do we need both --
McCarvel: I will let them -- yeah, we will let them chat for just a half second.
Arnold: Madam Chairman, when is the next available hearing?
Fitzgerald: January 17th.
Arnold: Let's do that.
Fitzgerald: Does that work?
Arnold: Give me your direction as to what exactly you want me to do or -- I want to make
sure that I have got some good direction what the Commission is looking for.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair, I don't want to speak for the whole Commission, but I think,
Steve, what we are looking for is a mixed use. I mean whether it's commercial above and
that's what they are going to bring to the table or we have got to put some commercial in
your space and so somehow there is going to be an inner mixing of commercial in there.
McCarvel: With good access.
Fitzgerald: With good access that will allow that to happen. And I -- I think the pieces got
to work together to make that happen in a way that roads work, access works for you and
them and that you could bring us a project that fits.
Arnold: Madam Chair, Commissioner Fitzgerald, so I have talked to them about what --
actually doing some of the design work. I'm not sure if I'm still doing that or not, but what
-- what percentage or what would the Commission like to see commercialwise if we
floated it -- a portion to the north where there is better access? Because I think that's key
is I will figure out from ACHD, which I already -- I pretty much know where they are going
to allow me a full access driveway. Once I determine that, what -- I mean are you looking
for an acre, half acre?
Cassinelli: Is that a staff --
McCarvel: Yeah.
Cassinelli: Sonya, can you --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 15 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 13 of 64
Fitzgerald: Do you have any input here? What -- in -- in the overall what percentage on
a commercial mixed use for the record, what does staff like to see the mix -- percentage
mix be?
Allen: I would have to consult the Comprehensive Plan. They should -- they should
provide it consistent with the mixed use designation.
McCarvel: Yeah. And I think that's just kind of what we are worried about, is this is all
residential, no mixed use, and, then, if their plan is to come in with 90 percent residential
and just a little bit of commercial, that's probably not what we are anticipating -- what --
you know, we would like to see, so -- we will get you a number here in a second.
Allen: Residential uses should comprise a minimum of 40 percent of the development
area. So, typically three different types of uses are proposed. I think if they can do at
least a couple or -- or some kind of commercial. Offices maybe on the property to the
north we would be good.
Arnold: So, Madam Chair, the reason I ask is we have got three acres now and it says a
minimum of 20 percent of that should be a residential use. So, if I were to take that
acreage and it's -- it's a minimum, it doesn't give a maximum, you know, I would probably
-- I would figure out a market demand. We have -- I have actually talked to a couple of
users that might be interested, but what I was -- had talked about with the two other
partners was, you know, coming in with maybe some towns of some lighter density along
the east boundary and, then, transition from our multi-family, you know, kind of go up and
do maybe a little -- mirror a little bit of what we are doing and, then, come in with some,
you know, medium density towns and, then, where -- closer up to the access off of Linder
is where we would do perhaps commercial and office and that was the -- the three
different uses I understand meets the definition of the mixed use. Because currently right
now in the comp plan their property can only come in for up to seven to eight units per
acre. It's a -- it's called out for as a medium density. So, it -- you know, if we slide this --
if we moved the some -- the mixed use designation I have got to take and do some multi-
family on theirs, as well as commercial.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I think you're -- you're buzzing around the right -- what I would guess would
be the right mix. I don't know exactly what that looks like until I see something and that's
why you guys are planners and I'm not.
Arnold: And that's why I --
Fitzgerald: But I think that -- yeah. I think you're looking at a mixture of -- and there has
to be a significant impact -- or a significant amount of residential in there, but I don't want
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 16 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 14 of 64
to see you come back with medium density residential and, then, this -- this is two uses,
there is no commercial at all. Is that --
Arnold: Oh, I get you.
Fitzgerald: So, I mean I like there has got to be something that plays into that, whether
it's a neighborhood type community, little coffee shops and offices, or something that --
that's going to -- it's going to serve that neighborhood, if that makes sense.
Arnold: That makes sense. And that's kind of the thought. If you will look at my circulation
plan, I mean that's why I have got the two public streets off of Linder -- it was kind of --
internal there would be kind of the -- a neighborhood with some boutique commercial type
things.
+
Fitzgerald: Something the people can walk to.
Arnold: Correct.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Cassinelli: But, again, tying that all in with the -- with the development to north.
Fitzgerald: Yeah. Absolutely.
Holland: Madam Chair, the only other note I would have, too, is I know commercial tends
to like to have frontage, so as long as there is still visibility for them, as much as possible
off Linder, since it's a pretty major corridor.
Arnold: Right on Linder.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Steve, thank you. You're a trooper. We appreciate it.
Arnold: Thank you.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair, I got -- Steve, I have one quick question for you. Sorry. In your
-- he's -- you know, the gentleman has left now I think, but the 17th you will have -- he
was talking about two different plans. You will have -- that's enough time for him to get
-- and for you guys to confer and come up with something.
McCarvel: And give staff ten days.
Cassinelli: And staff ten days.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 17 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 15 of 64
Arnold: I believe so. Yes.
Cassinelli: Okay. I don't think we -- I mean we don't have to continue again, do we?
Arnold: No. I think if -- by the 7th we should be able to get something to the city staff. Of
January.
McCarvel: Ten working days. Ten working days, right, Sonya?
Allen: Typically, yes, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I would like to clarify something on
the record. I misstated the minimum percentage of residential. I believe I said 40. It's
actually 20, like you have stated. Anyway, I just --
McCarvel: Is there a minimum in there for commercial? It's just two other uses.
Allen: Yeah.
McCarvel: Okay.
Arnold: It just states, as I understand it, fairly vaguely about the number of uses.
McCarvel: Okay. So, to give staff ten working days you would need to have everything
on their desk by the 3rd.
Fitzgerald: Not very much time.
Arnold: How about the next week?
McCarvel: The next one?
Arnold: Yeah.
McCarvel: Okay. So, February 5th --
Arnold: I can meet with the owners next -- after the Christmas holiday and I should be
able to get something to them -- to the staff.
McCarvel: By the 3rd or -- or do you want to do this February 5th? Give everybody a
little breathing room.
Arnold: I would like to shoot for the 3rd.
McCarvel: Okay.
Fitzgerald: I don't know, Madam --
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 18 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 16 of 64
McCarvel: There is a lot of holidays --
Cassinelli: Madam Chair? Steve, I -- I want to see something that -- I don't want to see
something thrown together over the -- yeah, where you're trying to push it together just to
get it to staff. I -- you know, what I think we are all hoping for is -- is something's that's
going to tie in and something that's really going to be nice for that -- that whole section of
land there and I'm just not -- I'm not saying you can't do it, I just -- with -- with everything
else and the holidays -- yeah, it looks like he's -- he's back in, but -- I know you want to
get it done. I know you want to get it done.
Arnold: I think the buyer is motivated and, you know, we are, obviously, motivated, too.
So, I think they are going to be motivated to get in with us and work and I -- we should be
able to do the actual design of it. It doesn't take but more than a couple days.
McCarvel: Because we kind of thought you guys were all more in agreement than what
we are seeing here tonight. So, you got -- you guys want to confer just a second. Okay.
Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Thanks, Steve.
Arnold: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Appreciate it. Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I move that we continue H-2018-0090 to the hearing date of February 5th to
allow the parties to get together and coordinate their design efforts, potential float of the
MUC up to that property to the north and, then, we could have a more complete package.
McCarvel: Perfect.
Holland: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded --
Cassinelli: Madam Chair, the 5th is a Tuesday.
Fitzgerald: Oh.
McCarvel: February 5th -- 7th.
Cassinelli: 7th.
Fitzgerald: 7th.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 19 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 17 of 64
McCarvel: 7th. Okay. Thank you.
Cassinelli: We can give it straight to Council.
Fitzgerald: Sweet. I revise my motion to February.
McCarvel: February 7th. Got you.
Holland: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to continue Item H-2018-0090 to February
7th. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Thanks, guys.
C. Public Hearing Continued from December 6, 2018 for Alicia
Court Subdivision (H-2018-0107) by Riley Planning Services,
Located 4036 E. Granger Ave.
1. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 6 building lots
and 2 common lots on 3.084 acres of land in an R-4
zoning district
McCarvel: Thank you. Next on the agenda is continuing public hearing number H-2018-
0107, Alicia Court Subdivision, and we will begin with the staff report.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The next application
before you is a request for a preliminary plat. This site consists of 3.08 acres of land. It's
zoned R-4 and is located at 4036 East Granger Avenue. This property was annexed and
preliminary platted in 2003 with the final plat recorded -- or, excuse me, approved in 2006.
The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is medium density residential.
The applicant is proposing to develop the site with six single family residential lots and
two common lots as shown. The gross density of the proposed plat is 1.94 units per acre
with a net density of 2.3 units per acre, which falls below the target density of medium
density residential designation. The applicant is requesting a step down in density from
Council as allowed in the Comprehensive Plan without an amendment to our future land
use map. The proposed plat is consistent with the dimensional standards listed in the
UDC for the R-4 district. There is an existing home and accessory structure that are to
remain as part of this project. The existing home and accessory structure will be located
on the proposed Lot 1, Block 1. That is this lot right here at the bottom. Access to the
site is from the extension of West Alicia Street. The applicant is proposing to construct a
common driveway for access five of the six lots. The existing home on Lot 1, Block 1, is
requesting a council waiver to keep direct access to East Granger Avenue. If the Council
does not provide an access waiver for Lot 1, the applicant will need to redesign the plat
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 20 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 18 of 64
to provide local street access to that lot. With the extension of utilities to this property,
the applicant is proposing a pathway maintenance road from Granger Avenue to the
common driveway that is proposed for this project and that is the shaded area right here.
A maintenance road will serve dual purposes, allowing the city to perform maintenance
of the utility mains within the proposed 30 foot wide utilities easement and to provide a
pedestrian connection to the west. The applicant is requesting that the maintenance road
be constructed of decomposed granite and not paved as recommended by staff. Because
the proposed pathway has a 90 degree turn in it, staff has concerns with a blind spot for
police and -- police being able to look at it. Basically visibility. And recommends the
maintenance route and utilities be relocated between Lots 3 and 4 of Block 1 and that
would be right here in this location. Be more of a straight shot into the development. The
entire easement should be placed within the common lot. Lastly, staff recommends the
entire utility easement be contained within a common lot and landscaped with shrubs and
ground cover. The UDC requires a 20 foot wide landscape buffer along Granger Avenue.
There is an existing landscape buffer that was installed with the Red Feather Estates No.
2. The 20 foot wide landscape buffer was placed in an easement with approval of the
Red Feather Estates Subdivision No. 2. The UDC requires that all street landscape
buffers be placed in a common lot that is owned and maintained by the homeowners
association. The applicant is requesting that the previous approval be honored and that
they not be required to place the landscape buffer in a common lot with this development.
There is an existing fence along the frontage of Granger Avenue that is proposed to
remain as part of the development. The UDC requires that fencing be located outside of
the 20 foot easement in this case. The provided landscape plan shows a portion of the
existing fencing within ten feet of the existing property line. The applicant shall move the
fencing outside of the recorded landscape easement as shown on the recorded plat for
Red Feather Estates No. 2 or apply and receive approval of alternative compliance to
vary from the standard set forth in the UDC. Additionally, the applicant shall provide
fencing along the pathway access road as provided in the UDC. The applicant has
provided sample building elevations for the proposed development. Homes consistent of
a mix of materials, including stone, stucco, lap siding and architectural shingles and
provide visual interest on the elevations provided. The applicant should ensure that the
elevations that face Granger provide architectural interest and modulation. Written
testimony has been received from Penelope Riley, the applicant's representative, and I
will let her go over that with you. Staff is recommending approval with conditions.
McCarvel: Thank you. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Constantikes: Thank you, Madam Chairman. For the record Penelope Constantikes.
Post Office Box 405, Boise, Idaho. 83701. Representing the applicant this evening. Just
a brief recap of this subdivision. As you know, it's an in-fill development on three plus
acres and it's a remainder piece from the old Red Feather Estates No. 2 Subdivision.
Generally the proposed subdivision is for six residential lots with one lot being the existing
home facing East Granger and two common lots. There will be additional common lots
with the final plat, obviously, in order to place existing landscape buffer that's an easement
into common lots as staff has requested. Mail facilities are proposed to be provided in
one shared location near the entry of the shared private driveway at the terminus of Alicia
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 21 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 19 of 64
Lane, which is the street that comes from Dawson Meadows. That will keep all of the
mailboxes off of the cul-de-sac. The expanded cul-de-sac design was actually a
suggestion by the fire department, so it would allow both fire access and parking for
guests and keep any kind of guest parking out of Dawson Meadows. The applicant is
requesting that Alicia Court Subdivision be approved, essentially, as proposed. There
are several discussion items and recommended changes to the proposed subdivision in
the staff report that I would like to discuss this evening. Staff has gone over the density
step down. I didn't find a formal procedure for that, so I guess we just are asking for a
step down in residential density. I did want to reference the fact that given the site is in-
fill it was eligible for additional density, but the rationale for the density as proposed was
to provide a density variety in the neighborhood and to be sensitive to the fact that this
parcel has essentially been undeveloped for more than 12 years. We are asking for
retention of the existing access for 4036 East Granger and staff has covered that in the
staff report. ACHD has taken this item up and has no objection to retain the driveways
on East Granger for this property, given that the home is constructed to take access off
of Granger, there is no logical way to provide an alternative access to this home and we
are requesting that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend approval of the
waiver or exception to the policy manual as proposed with the Alicia Court Subdivision.
The shared private driveway ACHD provided the applicant with two options with regard
to how access was provided to these new parcels. The first option was to construct a
private street. The second was to provide -- to construct a shared private driveway as we
have proposed and to provide a public turnaround easement for the cul-de-sac and the
private driveway, so that if people get lost and drive down the shared driveway they can
turn around and come back out and they are allowed to do that. So, we will be exercising
that second option as provided by ACHD. They are asking for verification from the
Meridian Fire Department, which we will provide to -- to ACHD. With regard to the location
of the utility corridor and pedestrian pathway, this pathway is proposed between Lots 1
and 3 as a common lot number two and this lot is proposed to be 20 feet wide. Originally
this parcel was proposed to be a site for clubhouse and recreational facilities for Red
Feather Estates. That plan apparently was later abandoned when improvements weren't
constructed with Red Feather Estates No. 2, a utility easement was granted to the City of
Meridian in alignment with East Ganger where it turns westward and the services were
stubbed into the site beyond the 20 foot wide landscape buffer. This was actually very
insightful, because it eliminated the need to dig up the landscape buffer in order to stub
services into the site. The staff report references public safety as a concern for the
proposal location of the utility corridor and pathway. To understand this better I reached
out to the Meridian Police Department and discussing the pathway with the police
department I explained the 20 foot wide width of the proposed common lot and the fence
height restriction of four feet of solid fencing to Lieutenant Colaianni. The feedback I
received was that the police department did not have any heartburn with the proposed
path location and geometry and that the pathway at this location would not create a public
safety hazard. The project team proposes to keep the pedestrian pathway and utility
corridor in its proposed location, as there does not appear to be a public safety hazard.
The utility corridor width and surface -- an updated layout for the utility corridor was
proposed this evening -- is being proposed this evening. I have an electronic version of
it and I did e-mail it to staff. I don't know if you were able to pick it up.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 22 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 20 of 64
Allen: Do you have it on a thumb drive?
Constantikes: We have -- actually, there is two -- if you pull that up I might be able to tell
you which one it is. It's going to be Exhibit 1 and 2. That's the technical specifications.
The next two items on that flash drive are the two exhibits that the project engineer
prepared. Yeah. So, this is an exhibit prepared by the project engineer and, then, the
second item is a cross-section that shows how it will lay out. So, what we are proposing
to do is directly connect to the stub sewer and water that are into the site. This utility
layout will have a 20 foot wide common lot with sewer and water within the common lot
separated by 11 feet, which is what the Public Works Department requires and a 16 foot
wide surface for pedestrians and City of Meridian maintenance vehicles. With easements
five feet on both sides of the common lot, the total combined common lot and easement
area available for the City of Meridian will be 30 feet. Fence posts can be installed to be
removable in the event that the utility line needs replacement and there is sufficient room
within the common lot and the easement area to stockpile soils if needed. According to
the project engineer, this layout has been approved previously in the City of Meridian.
Surface for the 16 foot wide travelway is proposed to be decomposed granite. The
surface has been approved by the city of Boise fire department in Harris Ranch.
Specifications for this surface have been provided to staff. That was the first document
that was open. Performance requirements for any kind of weight bearing needs can be
met with this system. Other attributes for the use of decomposed granite include that it
is permeable and will not contribute to runoff. It's easy to maintain and has a lifespan
that's equal to, if not greater than standard asphalt. It's a natural material that comes in
a variety of colors and will be aesthetically pleasing and complement the neighborhood,
the existing and developed neighborhood. The material, if excavated for utility repair, can
be reused by being reinstalled. With the installation to manufacture specifications this
surface is 98 percent, I believe, solid and it can support vehicles, including fire trucks and
vac trucks used by public works departments. With regard to landscape updates, we
didn't really request keeping the easement, we just didn't address it. We were not sure
how to navigate that, since those were pre-existing easements. But the -- the project
landscape architect will update the landscape plan to meet staff requirements for shrubs
and ground cover and to place those landscape buffers in common lots. Excuse me. The
shrubs and ground cover recommendation for the landscape buffer adjacent to the
pedestrian pathway will be added. And, then, we will convert the buffers along Granger
to common lots as recommended by staff and either remove the fencing that's located
inside the landscape buffer or relocate the fence at the southeast corner of the site to
outside of the new common lot lines. And, in conclusion, I'm going to follow the conditions
of approval as provided in the staff report to make it as easy as possible. The project
team is requesting that Item 1-A and B be deleted and that these two conditions be
replaced with approval of the pathway and utility corridor in its proposed location of Lot 2
with a 20 foot common lot and five foot wide easements on each side, with a removable
fence post as shown on the engineer's illustration, with a 16 foot wide decomposed
granite surface constructed to support public utility vehicles and vac trucks. Bollards will
be installed to prevent any kind of public access to this 16 foot wide travelway. Items
1-C and 1-D are as written. Item 1-E, we are just requesting acknowledgement that
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 23 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 21 of 64
ACHD has provided Alicia Court Subdivision with the option of retaining the private shared
driveway with a public turnaround easement and I did note earlier that the applicant will
provide the highway district with the Meridian Fire Department verification. Item 1-F as
written. Item 1-G, we request that the Commission recommend approval of the proposed
City Council exception or waiver, whichever term you want to use, to allow Alicia Court to
retain the driveways for 4036 East Granger Street at their location -- their current location
as approved by the highway district. Item 1-H we are formally requesting the step down
in density. Items 1-I and 1-J and 2-A as written. Item 2-B, we do request that the
proposed decomposed granite surfacing be approved, rather than the recommended
asphalt. And under items 2-C, D, and E the landscape plan will be revised to reflect the
landscape buffer in the 20 foot wide common lot along East Granger to be owned and
maintained by Alicia Court Subdivision HOA and move the existing fence outside the
common lot. Item 2-F as written. And with that thank you. I would be happy to answer
any questions you have.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Penelope, can you tell me the -- on the crushed granite what -- what's the
reasoning behind it? Because I -- it's something -- we don't see it a lot and so finding
people to replace it, repair it, that's -- so, just give me some background on why.
Constantikes: Sure. It was originally proposed by the landscape architect. It's used a lot
in California. It's not a new product. It's -- it's decomposed -- it's crumbled granite and,
then, it has a stabilizer in it. The manufacturer specs were submitted. So, it's just as
good a surface as asphalt. It's natural. It's permeable. It doesn't generate runoff. It can
be reused. And the architect was thinking about making sure that we were as sensitive
to the surrounding area and the aesthetics as possible, so it's probably more expensive
than asphalt, but we thought that it would be a nice way to dress up the connection
between our subdivision and the surrounding subdivisions and provide a surface that
utility trucks can use and pedestrians can use, but still have some environmental and
aesthetic benefits.
Fitzgerald: Okay. Thank you.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: With regards to that surface, do you have any -- do you have any images of it
on -- on a thumb drive or any --
Constantikes: I do not. And I apologize for that. I don't, but I will make sure that we have
one before we get to City Council.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 24 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 22 of 64
Cassinelli: Because I have something in my mind that is probably not right.
Constantikes: The nice thing about the decomposed granite is you can get it in different
colors, so you can blend it with the surrounding environment and it just -- it kind of looks
like a -- maybe a flagstone pathway without the joints, just has a nice smooth surface or
you roll it to compact it. So, it's a rolled surface. I apologize I can't provide you with a
picture.
McCarvel: I do -- the staff report recommends that the pathway be between Lots 3 and
4. Could you, again, state your major objection to that versus where you have it?
Constantikes: Certainly. Staff's objection to the location as proposed was that it was a
public safety hazard. So, I reached out to the police department.
McCarvel: I know what their statement was --
Constantikes: Yes.
McCarvel: -- but what is your objection to doing it there?
Constantikes: To moving it?
McCarvel: Yeah. To having it between three and four verses --
Constantikes: Somewhere between 80 and 100 thousand dollars in -- in utility
construction. It's already stubbed into the site, it just seems to be a natural place for the
pathway to terminate where East Granger is across the street. It's a -- it's a good -- it's
-- it has better flow probably than moving it northward. So, that's where the utilities are
stubbed.
McCarvel: Any other questions for the applicant?
Constantikes: Thank you, ma'am.
McCarvel: Thank you. Do we have any public testimony signed up?
Johnson: There are no sign-ins, Madam Chair.
McCarvel: That being said, is there anyone in the room who wishes to testify on this
application? Anymore questions for the applicant or would we like to close the public
hearing?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 25 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 23 of 64
Fitzgerald: I move that we close the public hearing on H-2018-0107.
Holland: Second.
Fitzgerald: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on H-2018-
0107. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
McCarvel: I -- quite honestly, I -- when I asked the question about the positioning of that
pathway I kind of thought the same thing that I think aesthetically it probably looks better
where it is, just because it does give a little definition, probably, between the existing
home and what -- and those homes, rather than cutting through the middle, but I guess
the placement of the utilities probably works easier for them I guess there and I -- I think
the way they have got that angle of that turn is probably not an issue for safety.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: And it's -- it's still going to Granger, if you look at where it comes in on the --
it comes right directly into that road. So, I think it makes sense.
McCarvel: Yeah. I think -- I'm not opposed to the crushed granite versus the asphalt. It
kind of I think defines it out as it's not a public use road, being something different than
the asphalt, instead of just having the block -- the holes -- the coating on the -- thank you.
Thank you. So, I would be -- I'm okay with that.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner --
Holland: I don't have any concern with the overall layout or the way that the pathway
goes through. I have seen a couple of developments that have used the crushed -- either
crushed granite or something similar and it seems to look pretty esthetically pleasing. I
don't see any concerns with using that material either. I think one of the other things they
talked about was maintaining the driveway on Granger. Since they are already accessing
Granger right now I don't see a huge concern with continuing to let them have that access,
but I know that's not something that's up to our Commission. It's up to Council.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair, it kind of lines up with Sharon Avenue going to the south of the
site. I mean I -- that's -- it's a use that's already being used to -- it's an existing use. So,
I have no problem with that either.
McCarvel: Yeah. And I'm guessing nobody has a problem with the step down in density.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 26 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 24 of 64
Fitzgerald: No.
Cassinelli: You're not going to get an objection for me on that. We are just -- we are
looking to approve it with the pathway as presented?
Fitzgerald: I think -- I don't -- I don't find a problem with it.
Cassinelli: No, I don't -- is that the only other -- is that the only other change that --
McCarvel: Was their positioning of that landscaping on the easement --
Fitzgerald: A and B is the -- they wanted to eliminate it on the --
McCarvel: Yeah.
Fitzgerald: I have no problem with that.
McCarvel: Can you tackled the motion?
Fitzgerald: No.
McCarvel: The time you get numbered.
Fitzgerald: At the end of the day I -- I think it -- it's good in-fill. I think it looks good. I
think that they have taken comments from our Public Works and the fire and police
department. I think it works well. How to make a motion I don't know.
Cassinelli: Sonya, what's the 1-A and B?
Fitzgerald: It's to place the pathway and the utilities between Lots 3 and 4. So, it would
move the utilities over -- not on -- not under the pathway, but put them in between the two
lots.
Cassinelli: So, that's what the -- that's what --
Fitzgerald: That's what A and B is.
Cassinelli: That's what A and B are?
Fitzgerald: They are regarding the utility easement.
Cassinelli: I'm trying to find it here, so -- so, it would be deleting those two.
Fitzgerald: And, then, the granite driveway on 2-B. And, then, 1-G is Council, but we can
give our thumbs up if you really desire.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 27 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 25 of 64
Holland: Madam Chair, there was also a request to adjust Item 1-E, I believe, which right
now states that the applicant shall either revise the plat to meet the requirements of ACHD
or receive approval for ACHD commission to keep Alicia Court with the common
driveways proposed. I'm trying to remember exactly what they have requested, but
something about acknowledging ACHD --
Fitzgerald: I think it's the fire department's approval that they can do that. Was that what
it was?
Holland: I think so.
McCarvel: Yeah. I think that can stay, because it -- it states meets requirements or
receive approval, which they --
Holland: Yeah.
Fitzgerald: Commissioner Cassinelli, are you working your way to a motion or --
Cassinelli: If you know -- if you have got it in your head all the -- if you can do it right. All
the letters -- deleting and --
McCarvel: Continue on, Mr. Fitzgerald.
Holland: I can take an attempt if you want me to.
Fitzgerald: Go right ahead. I will try to back up.
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Help me correct it if I mess it up, all right?
Fitzgerald: Okay.
Holland: Thank you.
McCarvel: Here you go.
Cassinelli: What do we have, a cheat sheet?
Fitzgerald: Oh. Awesome.
Holland: Does that make you want to do it?
Fitzgerald: No. I will let you do it. Go right ahead.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 28 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 26 of 64
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval of file number H-2018-0107 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date
of December 20th, 2018, with the following modifications: That condition 1-A and B, be
deleted and replaced with the approval of the pathway and utility corridor quarter as
proposed in the -- the renderings that were submitted tonight to our Commission meeting.
That 1-G be revised to allow the applicant to maintain the driveway on Granger. That 1-
H would allow the step down in the lower density residential without needing to do any
other further steps on that. That 2-B, the applicant be allowed to use the proposed
decomposed granite surfacing, rather than the recommended asphalt. And I believe there
is also a recommendation or request -- and can I have discussion before I put this in the
motion?
McCarvel: Sure.
Holland: One request was to have the landscape plan be revised to reflect the landscape
buffer and a 20 foot wide common lot along Granger to be owned and maintained by
Alicia Court Subdivision, to move the fence to outside of the common lot.
Fitzgerald: Versus 30?
McCarvel: 2-D.
Holland: 2-D.
Fitzgerald: Oh, instead of it being --
McCarvel: It says the HOA.
Fitzgerald: Yeah. It says maintain by the Alicia Court HOA.
Holland: I don't see a big difference.
McCarvel: Yeah, I don't see --
Fitzgerald: I don't either.
Holland: I don't think that needs to be in the motion. All right. So, that's my motion.
Fitzgerald: That was awesome.
Cassinelli: I will second that.
Fitzgerald: I will third it.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 29 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 27 of 64
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded and thirded to recommend approval of H-
2018-0107 with modifications. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
Congratulations.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
D. Public Hearing for Entrata Farms (H-2018-0125) by FIG Village
at Parkside, LLC, Located 3880 and 3882 W. Franklin Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 19.07 acres of land with
an R-15 zoning district; and
2. Request: a Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family
development consisting of 238 dwelling units on 18.18 acres
of land in an R-15 zoning district; and
3. Request: a Preliminary Plat consisting of 67 building lots
and 3 common lots on 18.18 acres of land in the R-15
zoning district
McCarvel: With that we will move on to open the public hearing for Entrada Farms, H-
2018-0125 and we will begin with the staff report.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The next applications
before you are a request for annexation and zoning, conditional use permit and a
preliminary plat. This site consists of 18.18 acres of land, zoned RUT in Ada county and
is located at 3880 and 3882 West Franklin Road. Adjacent land use and zoning. To the
north is the railroad tracks and single family residential uses zoned R-8. To the east is
multi-family residential zoned R-15 and undeveloped land that was recently approved for
a self service storage facility zoned L-O. To the west is rural residential and agricultural
properties, zoned RUT in Ada county. And to the south is Franklin Road and single family
residential uses zoned R-8 and R-15. A multi-family project was previously proposed on
this site earlier this year that was denied by City Council. The proposed project is deemed
to be substantially different than the proposed -- excuse me -- the previously denied
project. The Comprehensive Plan on future land use map designation for this site is high
density residential, which is 15 units per acre or more. The applicant is requesting
approval of a step down in density from high density residential to medium high density
residential, which is eight to 15 units per acre, resulting in a proposed density for the
development of 13.09 units per acre. Annexation and zoning of 19.0 acres of land from
-- excuse me -- with an R-15 zoning district is consistent with the requested step down in
density to medium high density residential. A conditional use permit is requested for a
multi-family development consisting of 238 dwelling units on 18.18 acres of land in an R-
15 zoning district. A site plan is proposed as shown and conceptual building elevations
were submitted that depict how the site is proposed to develop with a combination of two
and three story townhome style multi-family structures in groups of four, six and eight
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 30 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 28 of 64
attached units, both front and rear loaded. I will just show you the concept elevations for
those. Two story units are proposed along the west boundary of the site adjacent to the
existing residential and agricultural property and that is the four-plexes here that you see
and so the eight-plexes there on the right and the Tucker six-plex elevations there. Those
are combination of two and three story units, so the two story end units would be facing
the west property boundary in the locations where those are proposed. A combination of
two and three story units -- two story on the ends, with three stories in the middle, are
proposed along Franklin Road and those are the Tucker six-plexes as shown here. Three
story structures are proposed internally and those are the Peyton six-plex and eight-plex
units. Qualified open space and site amenities are proposed far exceeding UDC
standards. A minimum of 3.19 acres of qualified open space is required. A total of 6.15
acres is proposed. Pretty much double what our minimum requirements are. A minimum
of five site amenities are required. The following are proposed. An outdoor pool complex
with clubhouse, restroom facilities, property management office, two different children's
play structures in different areas, three covered picnic shelters, pavilions, with barbecues
and picnic tables. A dog park, half basketball court and two open grassy fields larger than
50 by 100 feet in area. Benches and pathways throughout the site. A preliminary plat is
proposed as shown, consisting of 67 building lots and three common lots on 18.18 acres
of land in the R-15 zoning district that is proposed to develop in two phases, starting with
the front portion of the development nearest Franklin Road. You can see this dotted line
right here that shows the different phases. Phase one is right here. Phase two is at the
rear. Access is proposed via Franklin Road and via the extension of West Perugia Street
at the east boundary. That Perugia will extend east-west through the site and stub at the
project's west boundary. The applicant will be constructing a crossing over the Kennedy
Lateral at the project's east boundary. An emergency access is proposed via Franklin
Road near the east boundary of the site and also near the north end of the site to the west
and those locations -- the north end of the site is right here where my cursor is at and,
then, the one at -- near the east boundary is right here. The entry street, as well as
Perugia will be public streets. The internal streets will be private for addressing purposes.
Written testimony has been received from the applicant James Doolin. He is in agreement
with the revised staff report. Staff recommends approval contingent upon Council's
approval of a step down in density as requested by the applicant. Staff finds the proposed
development is premier and that it provides open space, site amenities and parking far
exceeding UDC standards. It provides a housing type, townhome style multi-family units
that will contribute to the variety of housing types in this area, which is atypical to the
usual garden style apartments that we see. It will provide much needed housing within a
ten mile area in close proximity to future shopping and employment uses and is consistent
with the Ten Mile interchange specific area plan. Staff will stand for any questions.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Bill is going to be so proud of me.
McCarvel: I know.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 31 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 29 of 64
Fitzgerald: How many parking spaces? Because it looks like this is all parking garages
and out front. So, that's -- it looks like a lot of units with not a lot of parking.
Allen: There are quite a few extra. I'm sorry I didn't have that in my presentation. Give
me just a moment here.
McCarvel: There was quite a few.
Cassinelli: I am proud.
Allen: So, based on 238 two and three bedroom units, a minimum of 476 spaces are
required with half of those being covered in a carport or garage. So, all the parking
spaces, just as a side note, are in garages on the first floor of the -- of the townhomes
here. Townhome style development I should say. They are multi-family units. A total of
603 spaces are proposed, consisting of 274 driveway spaces, 254 garage spaces and 75
guests parking spaces for a total of 127 spaces over the minimum required.
Fitzgerald: And Bill is not clapping.
McCarvel: I know -- that's -- I'm waiting for Bill to clap.
Cassinelli: What's always been -- what's always talked about is in a lot of these kind of
developments the garages don't wind up getting used for parking, they get used for
storage.
Fitzgerald: There is a storage unit next door.
Cassinelli: It's --
Fitzgerald: I'm joking.
McCarvel: Yeah. No, I think -- yeah. Between the garages and the driveways and the
additional parking --
Cassinelli: I think we are hitting it.
McCarvel: I think -- yeah.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Shall we move on from the parking?
McCarvel: Yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 32 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 30 of 64
Cassinelli: And a couple other questions. Sonya, specifically why did Council -- what
was their reason for denial? Was it strictly the density, the number of units?
Allen: There were several different reasons. It's -- it's included in the applicant's narrative.
They felt like it would be too much of a strain on city services all -- all to come in in one
phase of the development. Now it's two phases. They felt like the density was a little too
high. This is just what I'm recalling, so bear with me, but they also had issues with the --
they were afraid that it would be under several different management companies with it
being subdivided like this. The applicant has addressed that and it's going to have one
management company for the entire development. So, the main things that I think that
were --
Cassinelli: I've pulled it up. I'm seeing it there. So, another question. On the -- it -- it
appears as though there are three story units along Franklin, not two and three story that
abut Franklin. Three stories in the interior. So, will there -- is the plan to have three story
units right along Franklin?
Allen: Madam Chair, Commissioner Cassinelli, no, the Tucker six-plex -- six plus units
that are before you right now are what are proposed along Franklin.
Cassinelli: So, there will be three stories --
Allen: All three story units are internal to the development.
Cassinelli: The Tucker six-plex I'm seeing are -- are three.
Allen: They have three stories on the ends.
Cassinelli: And the -- so, the way it's -- the way it will be oriented is everything along
Franklin will be two story?
Allen: No. So, you see the site plan here --
Cassinelli: Uh-huh.
Allen: -- there are six-plex units and they are two stories on the ends and, then, three
story in the middle.
Cassinelli: Okay. So, that there will be three stories along Franklin?
Allen: Yes.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Allen: These units right here before you.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 33 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 31 of 64
Cassinelli: Okay. Thank you.
McCarvel: Any other questions for staff? Okay. W ould the applicant like to come forward.
Brown: For the record Kent Brown. 3161 East Springwood. Sonya, could you go back
to the picture with the site plan that you have? There. If you look at our site we have an
entrance there on Franklin, but I would like you to look along our easterly boundary where
we have the Kennedy Lateral that's between us and the existing apartments. If you notice
those three story buildings, how -- we have oriented our buildings so that we are not facing
each other. We -- each one of those buildings is at an angle or in between the two
buildings. We have tried to do that so that impact on those existing residents that are in
those multi-family units aren't affected. The same is true along our east -- or westerly
boundary. Those are two story buildings. The -- the backyards to them are like in a single
family subdivision if you were doing it from the street. You have -- their rear yard is -- is
their open space. Then we have the same Tucker building that's along Franklin Road
where we stepped down -- where it says Lot 31 and Lot 30 where those -- where those
are at, it -- it steps down to the two story and what we tried to do is anticipate that basically
on either side of us is this medium density. So, that medium density could come in with
something that's in a single family product that someone else might have and try to be
friendly to those -- those other uses that are there by having the two story ends on that
-- that end of the property. What's kind of unique about the design -- and I provided a --
so, on this open space map as you look at it, there is a series of these parks, so you have
talked about along Franklin Road. Basically that street that is between Franklin Road and
all of those lots ends up working like an alley would, because the garages all face that
street, but you have street front looking buildings where the front of the building that's
facing out onto Franklin has a door and it looks like the frontage of the building. It does
the same thing on the other side where that local street that goes through there that
connects and connects from east to west through our site is also doing the same thing, is
that there is front doors that face onto that street that gives that a streetscape and a street
presence, that makes that more tenable than having the other. The reason that we have
the Tucker buildings there along Franklin is that it breaks up the up and down with -- yes,
there is three story buildings in the middle, but those two stories make that -- instead of
just once solid wall, it breaks it up and so that was the purpose in doing those. You come
into the entrance street -- how do you move to the next one, Sonya? Can I do that?
Allen: You got it.
Brown: Can I make that bigger?
Allen: Let me drive.
Brown: Please drive, Sonya. I'm okay with you driving. So, here is our entrance and
you're looking at that Tucker building, you're seeing the frontage on Franklin Road, that
becomes a very -- almost single family look to that development, even though those are
large buildings, you have that step down in the roof that is on that two story and you see
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 34 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 32 of 64
that our entrance coming in and our entrance comes into a park space. Go to the next
one, Sonya. So, here is, again, Franklin Road and what it would look like from Franklin
Road, because we have landscaping along the front and, again, how those buildings are
stepping up and down along Franklin, even though they are three stories tall. The next
one. So, over here to the right-hand side you have those three story Tucker buildings
that step down on the ends and our entrance and we come into the clubhouse and pool
that are right there as you come in. You can see that the front doors along that -- that
public street that I talked about have, again, a street frontage that have a street look to it.
We have a fitness room that's inside. That was one of the things the City Council asked
for that's inside that clubhouse. It's also where the maintenance people will be for the
development. There is a tot lot behind and a pavilion for a picnic and, then, a whole series
of parking there on the north side. The next slide, please. Here is looking -- coming from
the development from the east into our site and what you would see. The road is over
here on the left-hand side. There is basically a building right in front of us, but, again, the
clubhouse. Next one. This is the north side where the parking that I described -- looking
back onto the clubhouse. Sonya's reading my mind. There we go. So, here is the two
story buildings along the westerly boundary and the street that's stubbed to them as you're
looking at that. Here is a look at the two story buildings that would face to the west with
their backyards and just a streetscape of, again, internal to the subdivision. Next. One
more. Go back to the first one. The idea in the design was to try to make the open space
-- one more back. There is pathways and sidewalks within the entire development. So,
whether you're in the very north end of the site or just across the street, that everybody
can walk from anywhere that they step out of. So, you can step out of this park-like space
that is in front of your -- your unit onto a park. You can get on a sidewalk and that sidewalk
can take you to the clubhouse and pool area that's in the development, so that you can
walk north-south without having to get in your car and drive to one end to the other. The
desire was to have that -- that open space and have as close to it what a single family
people, people expecting in their kinds of developments and yet a multi-family. That's the
reason that we picked this townhouse style of multi-family unit versus what you -- typically
you're seeing where you have stacked people on top of each other where someone lives
on a second floor and there is people on the first floor and, then, you have to have a big
huge parking lot for that space. We have taken that space and made it green and have
open space with it versus having it be asphalt and parking for everything and, yet, we are
providing the parking, because we do go to that three story. You have to go to that three
story if you're parking underneath your building and that's part of the reason that these
end up being three story is that you have that parking that's underneath and you're taking
advantage of that versus having a parking lot that you're not having. So, that's why you're
not seeing the parking stalls that you would normally see in a -- in a multi-family. I would
stand for any questions that you might have about the design or anything about the
development.
McCarvel: Any questions for the applicant?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 35 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 33 of 64
Fitzgerald: Kent, everything that is internal appears to be living to the MEW in the middle;
is that correct? Doors facing the -- the common area in the middle? And, then, the ones
on the very tip and on the outside are the only ones that have like a backyard; is that
correct?
Brown: That's correct.
Fitzgerald: Just want to make sure I'm -- that black --
Brown: Well, those MEW spaces, you basically -- in the other design that came before
you before you approved it, they were long parks going north-south and they -- they were
the entire length of the project. These end up making them a little more personal in the
fact that by going east-west with your streets -- these streets that go east-west are mostly
just alley. They are --
Fitzgerald: They are alley-loaded product.
Brown: They are alley load, because your garages are there and, then, you have park
space that's out your front door and so you have something to look out the front of your
place. So, visitors come, there is parking that's at the end of those MEW spaces, so that
people can access -- access them there. Yes, they can come to the back door and they
do restrict it, so that people aren't using them for storage. That's part of what the HOA
and the management company is looking for and, actually, if they see someone that's
supposed to be parking in one, then, cite them and they have to be able to do that so that
they can watch that. That's -- we kind of fall apart if the -- if you lose the garage spaces.
I mean it would just be a disaster. That's -- that's real critical for this -- this project.
Fitzgerald: Thank you.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Kent, can you point out -- you mentioned that you were going to put two story
units along the Kennedy Lateral facing the existing apartments that are there. Can you
point --
Brown: The two story buildings are along the westerly side.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Brown: The -- the ends of the buildings that face on the westerly side, they step down
-- yeah. Right there. That's -- that's a Tucker building that steps down on the ends.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 36 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 34 of 64
Brown: The others there are three story buildings across the Kennedy Lateral from --
Cassinelli: Those are -- you put three stories there?
Brown: Those are -- those are big block -- they got to be 24 unit or more --
Cassinelli: Silver Oaks is three story; correct? That's what I was -- okay.
Brown: So, our emphasis -- we know what our neighbor to the -- to the east is and what
their units are. The concern ended up being as what is the future. There is -- there is 62
acres of unannexed ground to the west of us. The rest you guys have the charter school
that's been approved over there that's been before you. That 62 acres has a medium
density residential zone planned in the comp plan for it. It's not supposed to be mixed
use, but that's -- it's calling it out as being medium density. So, we took an effort to look
at that. This stub street is the local street to us stubs to the biggest parcel that's in that
area. It's 20 -- 21 acres and it is the northern part -- or the tip part of our project as a
neighbor. We also -- that one northerly little MEW s area to the north, just before the --
the little street that goes to the very north, we have a stub there for cross-access at the
northern part of our project, too.
Cassinelli: That's going into the existing apartments on the east over the Kennedy
Lateral?
Brown: We are connecting down here at the local street is the only place that we are
connecting to the ones that are on the east of us.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Brown: If you look at that local street. We have also tried -- at those intersections we
have the chokers in there, so that that doesn't become a freeway, if you will, through there
-- that that slows the traffic down in those -- those chokers. The Perdham Drain that is in
gray in the corner, it comes off and is at an angle, so if you look at the parcel that is to the
west of us, the 21 acres, it's kind of split by this Perdham Drain that runs off at an angle
from us. So, the location of where that street is is far enough north from an engineer's
standpoint that somewhat can actually connect to it without running into the ditch and
that's why it kind of snakes up there instead of going straight. Any other questions?
McCarvel: I think -- we did have a report from fire. They -- they seemed to be okay with
all the road widths and the turns in there, so that would be my only concern that those are
really technically kind of alleys back -- all back through there. So, long winding way to go
for a fire truck.
Brown: We went to each and every governmental agency that the City Council talked
about before and, yes, the one concern was -- when we originally submitted earlier this
year, there was the -- in one phase they took it that that was coming and being built all at
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 37 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 35 of 64
once, which would be really kind of difficult for you to even accomplish, but realistically
these don't really start becoming units until 2020 with it -- with getting approvals even
earlier this year and building that phase and the infrastructure that's required, the thing
that excited me -- me about becoming involved with this is that this is where the city has
said that you want that growth and the road Franklin has been approved. I recently
submitted applications in Nampa and put apartments in over off of Idaho -- Idaho
Boulevard -- Idaho Center Boulevard and with what's going in next to the cheese factory,
there is 2,000 planned jobs for two businesses that are new businesses going in that
area. This road is built and completed all the way to Black Cat and improved in front of
the site. So, it's not restricting any of that access and a clean and great connection to the
freeway for people to work and live in this area, which generally, as you have seen me
before, we have, you know, lots of people complaining about traffic. Well, traffic and
putting this in this location is just not the case and the utilities are already stubbed to the
site as a part of doing those road improvements.
McCarvel: So, this is all one owner, though, or is it --
Brown: This -- this will have a property management company that is one --
McCarvel: One. Yeah.
Brown: -- that will take care of all of them and will manage both leasing and, then, they
will have a management company for the maintenance of the facilities everything on the
exterior.
McCarvel: You're going to restrict no parking on any of those little alleys back there?
Brown: No.
McCarvel: Absolutely none. Okay. Yeah. That would be my only concern is, you know,
it's a long windy way to go for a fire truck, but as long as the parking is strictly enforced
there.
Brown: I submitted the street names to the street name committee. We are using skiing
terms, so there is like Chairlift and Bunny Hill and Rope Toe and -- so, everything's got a
street name, but that's what we have proposed in here.
McCarvel: Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you. Do we have anyone
signed up for public testimony tonight, Chris?
Johnson: No, Madam Chair.
McCarvel: That being said, is there anyone in the room who wishes to testify on this
application? Okay. Any other questions for the applicant?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 38 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 36 of 64
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I move we close the public hearing on H-2018-0125.
Cassinelli: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on H-2018-0125.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: As far as high density projects -- I can never get overly excited about them,
but I like it. I like the -- the park like feel. The -- you know, they certainly, you know, they
kind of knocked it out of park on the open space and parking and things. My -- the only
thing I -- the only thing I'm not wild about is having three stories up against Franklin. I
would prefer that to be two stories and then -- pretty much on any of these kind of large
scale projects I like to -- I like to see it start out low and, then, be three story on the interior.
That would be my -- and as far as approving it as is, I would -- I would -- that would be
my -- one thing that I would want to get behind.
McCarvel: Okay. Appreciate that. I kind of feel, though, against Franklin -- I mean just
the scale of everything, since you're up against a big five lane road, I don't think it's quite
as -- I don't think it would be quite as impactful as it might be on a smaller road. I think
off Franklin it could handle it. I do appreciate them doing the two stories on the west in
consideration of what's probably coming on their side and all the staggering on the east,
so nobody's really got a wall to look at.
Cassinelli: And I agree that -- that looks good. There is single family. I don't think it's
right across the street. It's down just a little bit, but there is single family right -- so, two
story, you know, abutting Franklin just down about -- probably about a hundred feet. So,
that's why I just think three story -- I mean Franklin can handle it, I guess, yeah, but I
would still rather see the two. That's my -- that's just my personal opinion, but --
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: You know, on the -- the two-three story mix -- I like the buildings that have the
two stories on the side and the three story kind of in the middle where it -- it looks a little
bit more layered. Frankly, I wish that all the buildings looked like that, instead of having
some of the three story and -- I think it's a nice mix. I'm not opposed to having three story
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 39 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 37 of 64
buildings, but I do like the -- the two-three mix. I think the biggest concern I would see is
-- is not that this area is -- the zoning on it I think is for the medium high density housing.
The challenge is that we have -- there has been a lot of approvals of other multi-family
units right around this site and I think that's probably where Council was coming from
when this came forward before, because I believe Baraya, just reading what they put in
the ACHD staff report, Baraya across the street had 334 single family and 260 multi-family
and, then, the Avondale had 369 multi-family to the east of the site and this would be, you
know, an additional 238 dwelling units. It's just a lot to come in and all at once on the
market and so I think that might be one of the biggest concerns I have is just -- not that I
don't want to see it be the medium high density, it's just having it all show up at the same
time is challenging when it comes to transportation and looking at another 1,700 trips per
day. When you look at the COMPASS report and what their traffic safety rating is, they
gave it an R for pedestrian and bicycle safety and they say a G or PG rating typically
supports bicyclists and pedestrians. I know we can't necessarily go out there and say
they need to have -- VRT have a transit plan there, but at some point, hopefully, VRT
would work with these developments to have better accessibility for bus stops or ability
for pedestrians to get to some of those employment centers. So, I guess that's one of my
biggest concerns. I don't have a real problem with the way that this site is laid out. I think
they have been very generous with the open space and the amenities and it looks like a
nice balanced community. I think it's just a challenge of all the density coming in and all
at one time for me.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: So, I -- I was not here for the original discussion, but whatever the -- I know
the Council had a challenge with the density and kind of where that went. I tend to think
that this is walkable to massive employment. Like we are going to see that Ten Mile
interchange park grow. I mean Paylocity is there. I mean there is -- there is several
businesses that are opening up and so there will be places to work and I know that that's
a part of that Ten Mile plan is to have ValleyRide be a part of that, so I think that's part of
that discussion. But I think this is where this fits. It's up against the railroad tracks. It --
there is not a ton of residential there already and so -- and it is matched up against another
high density project that's been there for a while, but it does have that -- I do agree with
you on the second and third story, because I -- as we go forward we are going to have to
park things underneath buildings instead of out in big surface area parking areas,
because that is one thing that drives me crazy, so I do think you have to -- it's a trade off.
Instead of having asphalt heat sinks, you have three story buildings that they are off
setting with that two story to make it look like there is some definition from the road space.
So, I'm -- I appreciate the design. I like the live to the -- to the MEW style where there is
some sense of community and people can walk and be part of their neighborhood. So, I
would be in support as of right now.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 40 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 38 of 64
McCarvel: Yeah. I would be support of it as well and I guess to Commissioner Holland's
point I do like the two and three story up on Franklin does give it the variation and stuff
that we normally request when on a highly visible area.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Just to make sure I know -- I -- I'm not opposed to the development. I think it
actually -- it's -- I agree with your comments that I think it is the right place for having that
higher density housing and I like the walkability and the accessibility to Ten Mile. I think
some of the challenges are sort of the timing of it. That was my only comment.
Fitzgerald: Totally understand.
Holland: One other question. I know in ACHD's report they had mentioned having a -- a
right-in lane that would be a deceleration lane of some sort to get in and out of there. Was
that in the condition requirements?
Allen: Staff's conditions also include complying with ACHD's conditions.
Holland: Thank you.
Allen: There is just a side note. There is a transit stop they are locating for the
CommuteRide pad near the southwest corner of this site along Franklin Road. They have
been working with Valley Regional Transit on that.
Holland: Thank you.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: I had a question for Commissioner Holland. So, your objection is just all this
coming online at the same time, not necessarily in total, but it's just the timing.
Holland: Yeah. I think that the -- the timing is a challenge. I don't think it's this developer's
specifically problem, I think it's just you have got three different developments going on
at the same time and long term it will work out great, you have got employment centers
nearby, VRT is, obviously, working -- I'm glad to hear that there is going to be a
CommuteRide station within the development. I don't know that I'm opposed to the
development. I think it's just a challenge of timing and that may be something Council
talks about as well.
McCarvel: And correct me if I'm wrong, but I would just say with the natural permitting of
things and as the natural build up on the schedule of inspectors and all that kind of stuff
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 41 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 39 of 64
kind of naturally push this stuff to a timing that will -- that they can handle. I mean they
can -- you know, they can only be so many places at once and I think even though it's all
coming on at the same time, it -- it will naturally spread itself out, because there is only so
many city employees to get to -- for inspections and that kind of thing.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: To that point I think even market conditions will yield -- approve what's
supposed to go there and let the market work out what's good to go and what be built and
I think you have to -- to, hopefully, provide the applicant the best case scenario and let
the market dictate what's going to happen in our area with the need for something that
they will bet on with money what they are going to build and what they are not. So, that
-- at least that's where I come down on that.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Just for another comment, we were talking about COMPASS and VRT and
-- and all. I will take this minute to chastise yet again ACHD in their short sightedness.
That should not have been a -- Ten Mile from the freeway north, it should have been -- it
should have been three lanes in either direction with a center turn. It should have been
seven lanes. If any of you have ever driven that at 5:00 o'clock without a thousand units
coming online, you know what I'm talking about, and it's only going to get worse. Little
we can do in this. I can't -- you know, we can't stop beyond --
Fitzgerald: At Ustick it stops; right? I mean are -- and that's --
Cassinelli: At Ustick it stops, but it's so backed -- I mean it backs up now from Franklin
to the freeway at 5:00 o'clock. It's solid. Without another -- I mean thousand trips plus
each -- at that hour, but --
Fitzgerald: My only comment there --
Cassinelli: Again, that's -- you know, my comment there is just to kick them in the teeth
-- it's just to kick ACHD in the teeth. Absolutely.
McCarvel: Duly noted.
Fitzgerald: I will support you on your teeth kicking.
Cassinelli: And it's not the last time either.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 42 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 40 of 64
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: One more quick question for staff. Sonya, there was a memo that was included
from the applicant asking to have an update to the staff report about the amenity packages
listed on pages two, eight, and 27 saying that they were incorrect. Do we need to make
a note of that in the motion or was that corrected in the staff report?
Allen: Madam Chair, Commissioners, it was corrected in the revised staff report, so, no,
you don't need to make an amendment.
Holland: Thank you.
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland, with that comment would you like to move forward
with a motion?
Holland: I would be happy to have someone else make the --
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to City Council -- to the City Council of file number H-2018-0125 as
presenting in the staff report for the hearing December 20th, 2018.
McCarvel: Would anybody like to second that motion?
Holland: I will second it.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to recommend approval on H-2018-0125.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
Cassinelli: Nay.
McCarvel: Chris, do you need to -- roll call?
Johnson: I got it, Madam Chair.
McCarvel: You got it? Thanks. Motion approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. THREE ABSENT.
E. Public Hearing for Villasport (H-2018-0121) by Sadie Creek
Commons, LLC, Located the SW corner of E. Ustick Rd. and
N. Eagle Rd.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 43 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 41 of 64
1. Request: Conditional Use Permit to operate an indoor and
outdoor arts, entertainment or recreation facility earlier than
6:00 AM on 11.39 acres in the C-G zoning district; and
2. Request: Modification to a Development Agreement to modify
an existing development agreement to change the previously
approved concept plan with a new concept plan
McCarvel: With that we will open public hearing for H-2018-0121, Villasport, and we will
begin with the staff report.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The next application
before you is a request for a conditional use permit. There is also a request for a
development agreement modification that is going before City Council on this application
that does not require Commission action. This site consists of 11.39 acres of land. It's
zoned C-G and is located at the southwest corner of East Ustick and North Eagle Road.
Adjacent land use and zoning. To the north and east our commercial uses, zoned C-G.
To the south are residential uses, zoned R-15 and R-8 and commercial zoned C-G. And
to the west is residential zoned R-2. This property was annexed back in 2005 with the
Sadie Creek Commons application, a preliminary plat and conditional use permit was also
approved that has since expired. A development agreement was approved as a provision
of annexation that conceptually approved a 150,282 square foot commercial development
consisting of retail, a restaurant and office uses and that is a copy of the previously
approved concept plan that's included in the current development agreement.
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this site is mixed use regional.
A modification to the existing development agreement is proposed to remove the subject
property from the terms of the existing agreement and enter into a new agreement for the
proposed development. A new concept plan and building elevations are proposed that
demonstrate how the property is proposed to develop with 99,000 square foot, two story
building for an athletic club and spa and a 15,300 square foot retail building and
associated parking. The athletic facility and spa is right here, this shaded building in the
middle. The retail building is here on the right side next to Eagle Road. A conditional use
permit is requested for extended hours of operation beyond that allowed in the C-G zoning
district, which restricts business hours from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. when the property
abuts a residential use or a district. The staff report did incorrectly state that the proposed
hours are 5:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. The applicant has clarified that the actual hours are
4:00 a.m. to midnight for indoor activities and 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. for outdoor activities,
with outdoor music only operating from 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. There are specific use
standards listed in the UDC for indoor and outdoor recreation facilities. Staff is
recommending the site plan is revised to comply with those standards per the conditions
listed in section eight of the staff report. Written testimony has been received from David
Durfee. He objects to the hours of operation specifically earlier than 6:00 a.m. and
Tamara Thompson, The Land Group, the applicant's representative, submitted a
response to the staff report and I will let her cover that with you.
McCarvel: Any questions for staff?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 44 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 42 of 64
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner McCarvel.
Cassinelli: Sonya, that -- that parcel right on the corner of Ustick and Eagle on the
southwest corner, that's -- obviously, that's not part of the -- of this plan and I don't see
-- kind of waiting for you to see -- I don't see any -- I don't see any access coming off of
this to that. Is that a condition in there? We have got that -- there is -- there is that last
remaining parcel.
Allen: Madam Chair, Commissioner Cassinelli, they are proposing an access driveway
out to Ustick Road right here. That would provide access to that parcel.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Allen: Kind of the -- in the map you can see -- that -- that access does require Council
approval of a waiver to UDC 11-3A3, our access standards, since they already have an
access. Further to the west on Centrepoint via Ustick.
Cassinelli: Okay. Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Yeah.
Fitzgerald: And, Sonya, there -- Centrepoint is lighted; correct? That's a lighted access
point?
Allen: Yes. I believe it is.
McCarvel: And, Sonya, is that outdoor pool back there along that --
Allen: Yes.
McCarvel: Okay.
Allen: Madam Chair, there are two outdoor pools, actually. This one right here is more
of a -- restricted to adults and, then, there is another pool facility over in here.
McCarvel: Okay. And is that the one I read in --
Allen: So, the pool area that's closest to the residential use is the adult facility and that is
within the -- it's close to the residences.
McCarvel: Right.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 45 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 43 of 64
Allen: Per the specific use standards.
McCarvel: By how much?
Allen: The applicant could probably speak to that.
McCarvel: Okay.
Allen: I don't know the exact calculations.
McCarvel: Okay. All right. Any other questions for staff? Would the applicant like come
forward.
Thompson: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, my name is Tamara Thompson.
I'm with The Land Group. 462 East Shore Drive in Eagle. We are pleased to present our
applications to modify the existing development agreement and a conditional use permit
to allow for a Villasport Athletic Club and Spa on the property. The property is highlighted
in blue here, so it does not include the hard corner. I noticed in the staff report that it
mentioned the property had the -- the pumpkins and the tree sales and stuff and that
activities is actually on the corner piece and not on -- on these pieces. So, I have a little
better plan here if you remove all those -- all the parcel lines and everything you can see
here. So, ACHD came by years ago and did the intersection improvements at Ustick and
with that they added two accesses on Ustick. Does this -- there we go. This one is
actually on the corner piece and this one would be on -- there is two parcels here on --
for -- for these parcels. What our proposal is -- and I will -- and I will get to that in a little
bit -- is to actually close both of those accesses and put a shared access that splits the
property line. So, this one's fully within this parcel right now and -- and that we would
have a shared access at that location. So, that answers one of your questions, but when
we get to the site plan I will show you a little bit better. So, again, it's 11.39 acres is what
the proposal is for the areas in blue, excluding the hard corner, and, fun fact, this is the
fifth busiest intersection in the state of Idaho if you count intersections at freeway exits as
well. So, it's third if you just count regular intersections. But if you go to the freeway it's
the fifth busiest in the entire state. The property is unique in shape. It has Centrepoint
that runs through the western portion of it and that's a public roadway and, then, it has
the Milk Lateral that bisects the property roughly east to west. The future land use
designation of the property is mixed use regional and that is the color in red on the plan.
So, even the properties to the south of us are that same mix -- comp plan, the future land
use designation. The property is zoned C-G and per the zoning, the city's Unified
Development Code, the C-G of the three C zones is the largest scale, with the broadest
mix of retail, office service and light industrial uses. So, this is clipped out of your code.
Sonya showed you this. This is the 2005 development agreement plan and recent --
more recently in 2013 a development agreement modification was processed and
approved by City Council, but the property owner at that time, due to various conditions
and -- that were placed on the -- on the development and on the market at the time, did
not go through -- go forward with that site. So, this -- this one is the -- that one. Just if
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 46 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 44 of 64
you saw any reference to 2013 I wanted to -- to bring that up. The -- the site has a 15
plus year history of entitlements on it. The -- and, like I said, this development agreement
was improved in 2005 and, interestingly, in 2005 I'm the same one that processed it,
which is kind of fun. The site was entitled prior to the southern subdivisions. Those
subdivisions were -- the R-8 was 2009 and the R-15 was 2015. Existing conditions out
on the site. So, actually, I want to go back and show you the roads real quick. So, on
these we have Cajun -- sorry about that. We have Cajun as an access point to the south.
There is an existing cross-access agreement for that access point and Piccard is -- runs
on the entire southern edge. So, we our bounded by Ustick, Eagle Road. Piccard is on
the south and -- and, then, Centrepoint Way. So, when I go to these pictures I will
reference those streets. So, the existing conditions. This is where Cajun comes into the
site from the south and this is the southern property line. So, you can see there is an
existing wood fence and the trees were -- were planted on the residential side and they
are -- they are nice and big. They have been there for -- for at least five years, so -- or at
least four years. They are -- they are nice and big. And, then, this is just going to the
south about another 50 feet to where Piccard runs and so in this picture we are looking
west again. So, both of those pictures are looking west. This one's down Piccard. And
here is where -- we are looking east on Piccard and at that corner of where Centrepoint
comes into the property and at that corner there is a large open space with -- with some
trees as well. That -- the depth of that -- the deepest portion of it is about 70 feet and it's
a little triangular piece, but the deepest portion is 70 feet. And, then, this is just going a
little bit to the north from that point, so you can still see the open space here and, then,
the back side of that fence again looking towards Eagle Road in this picture. And, then,
this is turning just a little bit and looking towards Ustick from that same point and the thing
I want to point out here is along Ustick are overhead power lines and Idaho Power came
in recently and put in kind of a mini substation and so we have looked at various locations
for the Villasport facility. One of those was up on Ustick with these power poles -- power
and pools don't mix and it -- it just didn't fit within all the easements and everything there,
so we moved it to the -- to the southern portion of the site and that's back to there. So,
with me tonight I have the senior vice-president of corporate development of Villasport
and I also have the representative from the property owner. Randy Black, Junior, is here.
I'm going to turn this over to -- to Mike to let him tell you more about Villasport to get you
comfortable -- comfortable with their operations and, then, I will come back up and talk a
little bit more about the site plan.
Fassler: Thank you, Tamara. Good evening, Madam Chair and Commissioners. My
name is Mike Fassler and I'm here to represent Villasport, who would be the major tenant
of this proposed project. Villasport is a family --
McCarvel: Could you give your address for the record, please. Sorry.
Fassler: Sure. My address would be 150 Pelican Way, San Rafael, California. 94901.
I'm here to represent Villasport, which would be the major tenant of this proposed project
on the site at Ustick and Eagle Road. Villasport provides a family-oriented, resort-style
athletic club and spa. It has proved to be a -- a beneficial community asset in the five
communities that we now operate. We operate two clubs in the Houston area. We also
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 47 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 45 of 64
operate our first club in Colorado Springs that dates back to 2006. We have one club in
San Jose, California. And a club in Beaverton, Oregon. We are currently under
construction in two other locations. Roseville, California. And we also are in construction
in Katy, Texas. Villasport tries to promote a healthy lifestyle where family fitness and
community come together. We offer fitness, sports, social events and educational
programming for the community. So, here on the slide shows you an example. This is
from our Beaverton club. It shows you the facade of the building. It also shows you that
we are -- our aim is to provide that -- that resort style experience right down the street
from your house. So, you don't have to go far. We also are -- we also provide services
for the entire community. Here is an example of the indoor swimming pool. This would
be a recreational pool inside, as well as we have a lap pool inside and, then, there is an
indoor-outdoor spa, which is great. Kids love it. Especially in the wintertime. They can
go outside. And our focus is definitely on family. Our aquatics program is comprehensive.
We have two lap pools, one indoor, one outdoor, and we have two recreational pools,
one indoor-outdoor as well. The aquatics program provides swim safety, instructional
fitness classes for all ages, including a youth and master swim team. There are more
examples of the outdoor pools. So, you see the play -- play apparatus for the kids to
enjoy the recreational pool and, then, this is the more serene adults only side where there
is a -- there is a whirlpool and there is a lap pool as well. And with the adults outdoor lap
pool, one of the reasons we need the 5:00 a.m. start is that a lot of times parents -- people
work in the community, they start lap swimming earlier on -- so, it wouldn't be recreational
swimming at 5:00 a.m. or before 6:00 a.m., it would be lap swimming. And these are just
more examples of that resort experience that we offer for the whole family. Included in
our offerings is a spa. The spa will be open to the public. It provides full spa services.
Manicures, pedicures, massages, facials, et cetera. Furthermore, the -- the concept of
the -- the club is -- is to offer high end facilities for everyone. So, you will see this example
of the men's lounge and locker room, as well as the sauna. We have over a hundred
pieces of cardio equipment that we offer at our clubs. We also have five group X rooms,
offering more than 180 classes per week. Here you will see an example of -- we have an
NBA regulation size gymnasium for basketball and, then, a separate gymnasium
dedicated just to kids. And, again, some more shots of the group X classes that we offer.
Kids are a high important focus of what we offer. We have over 10,000 square feet offered
-- dedicated just to the Villa Kids. This is where kids ages six weeks to 12 years old go
through different rotations. There will be five or six different rotations, depending on the
club. They spend 25 minutes each rotation. There will be an art -- art studio. There will
be an activity studio. There will be another studio for dancing. They will also do exercises
inside the gym and, then, there is outside play apparatus -- a play area that they will use.
And this is just some more photos of some of them enjoy -- some of the members enjoying
the experience. Here is the Villa Cafe. An important piece of what we do is we offer
nutritional foods and grab and go items for -- for members, as well as the community. So,
this is open to the public. So, the neighborhood can walk down, grab a cup of coffee or
something -- or grab a light snack on the way to work. Another important piece of what
Villasport does is offering community programs. We offer -- we have birthday rentals for
facilities. We do a Santa breakfast. We do an egg hunt. We do a school expo where
private and public schools come together annually to show what programming they offer
to the local community. Here is just a photo of what the building elevations would look
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 48 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 46 of 64
like. Understanding prototype. And here is the layout as well of the building. So, it's a
two story building. There is 32,000 square feet up and about 58,000 square feet down,
including the indoor swimming pools and all the gymnasiums and fitness equipment and
locker rooms. There is a family locker room. There is a men's locker room and a women's
locker room as well, with the spa in the middle. Now, we are back to the conceptual site
plan. So, one important thing to note is the swimming pool location. Tamara talked about
before already is right there and I will give it back to Tamara. So, thank you.
Thompson: Thank you, Mike. Again, for the record Tamara Thompson. So, our site
plan, we have -- like Sonya had mentioned, the -- this is a multi-tenant retail building that
would be phase two. So, phase one would be the Villasport property itself. From the --
from Centrepoint Way we have a parking lot over there. So, on that -- on the concept
plan in 2005 we had office buildings in this location and, then, if you see here the current
access -- sorry -- is right here, but the property line -- we have worked out with the -- from
the property owner that owns that hard corner to split that property line with the -- with a
new access point. It does a couple things there and it moves that access point further
back from the intersection and it provides a better access for -- for both of them and closes
up one access point on Ustick. So, we will be talking with City Council about that. To get
to your distances -- so, the use standard really talks about properties and the -- the
outdoor uses in relation to a residential district. In this case we have open space and a
road that's between the two uses and code doesn't really go into that, but in most cases,
if there is a public street in between your uses, then, those setbacks don't -- don't apply
and what we are asking for here -- we have -- there is two -- this is an outside area on the
Villa Kids side and our closest residential structure is 107 feet from that location and our
closest residential structure from the closest edge of the pool is 109 feet. So, what we
are asking for is -- and I believe that code is written as if these would be properties backing
up to where you're adjacent to like backyards. What we are asking for is that -- and I
don't know if we call it an alternative compliance, but our -- our setbacks, we are still a
hundred feet away with -- because we have that road there. There is a public street, open
space, and this use is seasonal. It's -- it's not year round. We -- we have cold weather
here, so it will be a seasonal -- seasonal pool. And, then, so -- and I have listed the area
that has the kids, where there would be more activity is -- is over 200 feet away from the
closest residence. And one of the things in the staff report that I was trying to look up is
the definition of activity center. The Meridian City Code does not have a definition for
activity center and so I was just looking through Google Earth to see how other areas that
I would consider activity centers -- how those were addressed and it seems to be applied
without consistency. So, here is just an example of Fuller Park where you have got
baseball diamonds adjacent to two neighborhoods and they don't have that hundred foot
separation. The Settlers Park, same thing. And, then, you also have community pools
within subdivisions and those don't have the hundred foot separation requirement. So,
code -- code really doesn't give us much direction on -- on that activity center and here
-- here is one more of that. So, with that our -- and I know my time is up, so I'm going to
go through this real quickly. We have reviewed the staff report. We agree with staff's
findings, with a few modifications. Staff is recommending approval and the conditions
that we are asking relief from -- or that we are providing an alternative compliance with
-- because there are public streets separating uses -- is -- let's see. For the first one,
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 49 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 47 of 64
1.1A, the reference in that section states seven and it should be eight. So V1.1. And
1.1C and 2.1A go together and that is the specific use standards for the arts,
entertainment, and recreation facility, indoors and outdoors. We are asking for a small
modification there in that our separation wouldn't be from the residential district, but,
instead, the residential use. Or structure. And 1.1D and 2.1D, those are similar in that
the -- the separation be separated from the residential structure, not the district. And,
then, to update the hours of operation in that -- that we are asking for 5:00 a.m. to 11:00
p.m. on the exterior -- on the outdoor swimming areas and, again, that is seasonal and
the 5:00 a.m. is -- would be for swimming laps only. And, then, any type of outdoor
speakers would be limited to 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. And, then, we have 1.1F. And,
again, this is the same thing that we just request that reference be made to the residential
structures and not residential district. And to clarify in 2.2, hours of operation for indoor
activities, would be 4:00 a.m. to midnight. And just for reference, the Gold's Gym, which
is across Eagle Road in the old Rosauers center, that is a 24 hour facility with residential
behind it. And, lastly, 2.2K is -- talks about an offsite sidewalk and offside improvements
are, first, difficult to negotiate those with -- with other property owners, but, second, I
believe that that property, which -- and I can show you where it is. It is -- I believe it to be
right in here and I also -- we have heard from this property owner and that they are
processing applications for an office building currently and if they -- if they haven't been
submitted to the city they will soon, but this -- any sidewalk locations in this area should
be part of that development and not this one, since we would have to go off site for that.
And with that I appreciate your time and we respectfully request your approval tonight
and I will stand for questions.
McCarvel: Any questions for the applicant? Okay.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: I can't get away without -- what -- as far as the lap pool and having that opened
at 5:00 a.m., why can't -- at that hour they use the -- there is an indoor lap pool. Why
seeking the change in hours?
Thompson: You know, anything to do with -- with operations I think I would like to get
Mike -- Mr. -- Mr. Fassler up to answer those questions.
Cassinelli: Certainly.
Fassler: Hi, Commissioner. Happy to answer the question. So, a lot of -- a lot of our
members do prefer to swim outside during the summer months when the weather is better
and so that's why we would need the lap pool starting at 5:00 a.m. Again, seasonal, so
that the lap pool would only be open April through October, during that time of year. It
will be adults only, so it's 18 and over in that area. It's not -- there is going to be no
speakers, it's just going to be laps fairly quiet and there is also -- between the residential
-- just to point out, again, between the residential structures and the -- the pool area there
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 50 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 48 of 64
is currently a wooden fence. There is going to also be another fence that we will put up
and there is going to -- there is mature trees and open space, as well as a street before
the noise would even reach across. Thank you.
Cassinelli: Thank you.
McCarvel: I do have one more question for -- is there any pedestrian -- I mean is there
going to be a pedestrian signal at Centrepoint between that extra parking and the facility?
I'm guessing it's probably just a stop sign and pedestrian -- but there is no lights or
anything there.
Thompson: Right. Madam Chair, there -- there would not be any type of a signal at this
location. The warrants wouldn't be met. This intersection is signaled, but it would just be
a crosswalk across here.
McCarvel: Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you. Do we have any public
testimony on this, Chris?
Johnson: Madam Chair, you have four people wishing to speak. First is Mike Tisdale.
McCarvel: Mike, are you in the room?
Johnson: Next is Brandon Clyde.
McCarvel: Okay.
Johnson: Batting zero here. Jared Schofield.
Schofield: Thanks for your time. I'm Jared Schofield. I live at 1566 North Leslie Way,
one of the properties that immediately adjoins the proposal. I have several items to
address with you today. Really, one of the big concerns with the community is, obviously,
the time impacts with early operation. My backyard direct -- directly faces the proposed
pool and swimming area. I also have small children. So, do my next door neighbors.
There are also several small children in the other neighborhood immediately beside this,
which I believe this development will have great impacts to that community. Obviously,
it's a parking lot directly behind my property, so I have several concerns there. One,
obviously, in their design they -- I'm -- Tamara, I appreciate you having the wall designed
into that that matches the existing wall that's there as a sound barrier, but it will take
several years for the vegetation -- the trees to be -- grow up to a height where there
actually is any kind of sound blockage, in addition to just that wall and with the height of
the facility and water slides that will actually be elevated well above the height of the wall,
there really will be no -- it really negates that sound barrier usage. Also parking lot --
lighting within the parking lot, obviously, that may become a nuisance directly into the
backyard, as this has been traditionally a very rural area. That's the reason why a lot of
us are there. Another issue is, obviously, the safety. As Tamara very well pointed out,
this is the fifth busiest intersection within the state and due to the increase of high density
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 51 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 49 of 64
in the area, this has now become an extremely dangerous area where several times we
cannot even access off of Leslie Way to get onto Ustick or onto Eagle. It is almost
impossible to make a left turn off of Leslie Way onto Ustick at this time due to the increase
in traffic flow and I believe with the current proposal it's going to increase that dramatically,
as well as, you know, into the surrounding communities almost and onto Centrepoint
overflow traffic potentially and people cutting through their neighborhood as well, creating
traffic hazards for their children within that neighborhood as I see it. Villasport is a
members only facility and, in my opinion, does not really add value to our community, as
it is a high end facility and doesn't really benefit the middle class neighborhood that it is
being put into. Also impact to the overall property values of the neighborhood. Obviously,
we don't have anything within the Boise valley of this nature to know how the true impacts
may affect us, but it is a concern on that front as well. Thank you for your time.
McCarvel: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Mr. Schofield --
McCarvel: Oh.
Fitzgerald: -- can you answer a question for me real quick? Give me your thoughts on
why there is the safety challenge for kids with this particular development -- for your guys's
street on Leslie, which is a street over --
Schofield: Not so much for my street as per se, but other people. It has become -- with
Leslie Way being a bypass from Leslie or from Ustick out to Eagle, it has become a
raceway when the traffic becomes bad on Eagle and Ustick. Because of that we have a
very large increase of traffic down that corridor, which historically had little to no traffic
with the increase of traffic and traffic being backed up past Centrepoint to Leslie, that
creates a flow of people taking a shortcut to get to Eagle through Leslie Way.
Fitzgerald: Okay. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Schofield: You're welcome.
Johnson: Final sign in is Steve Grant.
Grant: Madam Chair, Commissioners, my name is Steve Grant. I live at 1534 Leslie
Way, just adjacent to J.R. who just spoke. I have several concerns that -- some of which
have been addressed by Tamara in the past. The wall -- there is an existing wall, it's --
it's about four feet off of our property line. It's a masonry wall and we have -- we have
asked and they have agreed to extend that to -- down to -- or to -- yeah, to Ustick. One
concern is that because it's a masonry wall it has to have footings and that's why it's set
off of the property line and when -- when the original wall was built the -- the -- the builders
at that time put -- put us in -- you know, made us sign an agreement to maintain that --
that wall, which I'm not quite sure how that would work when and if it ever needed
maintenance, but the issue -- they also provided us a landscaping agreement, because
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 52 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 50 of 64
the wall -- you know, you want to landscape your own yard and I would hope that that
could be agreed on with -- with the existing -- or the new property owners. Lighting is --
J.R. addressed a little bit. We would like that lighting in that parking lot to be shielded, so
that the light is directed down. I believe Tamara has also agreed to that. I share J.R.'s
concerns about safety when all the development came in behind this, which is mostly
residential, the -- there is increase in traffic that people cut through, because you can't
turn left off of Eagle onto -- onto Leslie Way, because of the barrier on Eagle, we see
most of that traffic being diverted, if it gets congested, which it does, you know, in early
morning and at rush hour in the evening, people, you know, use that as a bypass. Also I
don't know how in the world you're going to have a left turn off out of that -- the proposed
onto Ustick. I mean it's so close to the Kohl's parking lot and that's just -- I can't see how
it could be anything but a right turn only, but that would also force all the people who want
to go left down to Centrepoint. And, then, another concern is that the, you know, there is
no -- there is no -- I mean a crosswalk is fine, but it seems to me when you have got little
kids with their parents going across Centrepoint by that light, that's a big concern for
safety as well. I object to the hours of operation. I would propose that instead of 9:00
a.m. to 10:00 p.m. with outdoor -- the speakers that that be limited to 9:00 and I would be
okay with that. I don't know how other folks feel about it, but that seems more reasonable
and more in line with what people would -- I guess normally expect. I don't have any
objections to the project with the concerns noted, but I do agree with J.R. that the
landscaping foliage would take a number of years to mature enough to be effective and
it would need to be increased to have it more dense. I would answer any questions if you
have any.
McCarvel: Thank you.
Grant: Thanks.
McCarvel: Anyone else in the room that wishes to testify on this application?
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. Shaun Wardle. 2239
East Greiner Street in Meridian. For those of you that know me, you know that I probably
couldn't come to a public hearing and not make some testimony. So, I appreciate your
time. A couple of reasons that -- that I'm interested in this particular application. I was
actually on the City Council when this came through -- this project came through originally
and so I have watched it over the years and -- and wondered how the commercial
development, as well as the residential development was going to -- to mesh together
and I really do feel that this particular use is appropriate within a neighborhood and that
brings me to my second issue. Professionally my family and I operated the Idaho Athletic
Clubs until about two years ago and so have some specific knowledge in terms of how a
community can gel around a health and fitness club and we, as a community in Meridian,
as well as other areas, have kind of struggled with what's appropriate in terms of timing
and when do people want to work out and so one of the things that I see in this particular
code is the economic reality is that people want to work out early. We have members
that -- we had facilities that were 24 hours. Our Meridian facility opened at 4:30 and we
had people in line at 4:15 to work out and so that's an economic reality in terms of what
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 53 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 51 of 64
happens with this type of a use. So, just wanted to give a little bit of testimony about that
and talk a little bit about the appropriate use and think it would be a good project and
would stand for any questions.
McCarvel: Thank you. Anyone else who wishes to testify on this application? Sir.
Vrba: Madam Chair, Commissioners, my name is Jeff Vrba. I live at 3005 North LeBlanc
Way in Meridian, Idaho. So, it's basically two houses from the corner of where their 109
foot mark is at. A couple main problems I see with the -- a big facility like that going in
right there. There has been a death at the corner of Eagle and Ustick this past year.
There is multiple accidents every time. That intersection is a lot of traffic through there.
Adding the extra traffic of people wanting to go to another fitness center. Centrepoint
itself, you get maybe three cars through there before the light turns. You don't get a lot
of time turning in and out. Their -- their road that they are planning on putting in there, it's
useless to get off of Ustick Road on there, so you will have to go down to Centrepoint.
For us to get home, the only way we can get into our subdivision is through Centrepoint.
I come in from Micron every day and travel down Eagle Road, take a left on Ustick, have
to go down to Centrepoint, take a left, to get into my subdivision. With the additional traffic
that's going to be coming from this type of facility being put in there, the intersection of
Eagle and Ustick is going to be really busy. Their secondary road there -- there is actually
an island in the middle of Ustick there, so there is not going to be anybody able to turn off
of Ustick into that -- use that road there. So, the only use for that would be people coming
up Ustick from Meridian that way. Coming down -- coming up from the interstate heading
north on Eagle Road there, that other lane, you can't get in there from Eagle Road. You
have to go up to the intersection, make a U-turn and come back and try to get in there.
So, the only reason that other will benefit anybody is coming from Eagle down. Looking
at their facility, the footprint that they put out, they say it's two stories, but if you look at it
it's closer to three stories tall with the flooring in it and, then, their extra decoration in front,
there is another higher, so the footprint of the building, I -- backing up against my house
I don't want to have to look out my door and all I do see a building out there. The original
building, Kohl's, that's out across the street, they are a single floor. The building is
pleasing in the area, even looking out that way. The lighting in the area is great. We
don't have a lot of light coming in there. They mentioned, yeah, you got a fitness center
across the street that's open 24 hours. There is nothing outdoors in there. That is a
whole complex there that's all business related and stuff. So, it's not like it's a big issue
there with that. So, basically, looking at their map, the only way to get into their facility
easily is down at Centrepoint and coming down Centrepoint there is not -- you got 40
homes that we have there, plus another 50 or 60 that might be coming from the other
apartment complexes that are over there. There is too much traffic trying to get out of
there now, let alone trying to add more coming in that way. The noise --
McCarvel: Sir, your time is up. You need to wrap up your thoughts.
Vrba: The noise ordinance, it's there for a reason. I will fight tooth and nail to get that to
stop and not change. I don't want to have to open my windows and hear people just 200
yards away screaming and shouting all night long. Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 54 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 52 of 64
McCarvel: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify? Sir.
Park: Commissioners, I'm David Park and my address is 191 P.O. Box in Meridian. I
represent Jackson Square HOA and --
McCarvel: Can you pull that mic just a little closer to you.
Park: This?
McCarvel: Yeah. Thank you.
Park: Or get down a little more.
McCarvel: Thank you.
Park: There you go. I'm comfortable. Do I need to repeat?
McCarvel: No. Dean got it.
Park: I really didn't come here tonight to testify, I came to get the information, but based
on the information that we have heard so far I echo the concerns of the other residents
that have been here. Centrepoint Way cannot handle another two to three hundred cars
that will be coming in there if there is that many. Cajun Road where the fence is there is
not a road yet. It will need to be extended through there and the question is how are you
going to get in there and like Mr. Vrba just said, the only way to get in is to come in off of
Eagle and come around there. If you come down through Centrepoint, make a left turn
onto Piccard to go down there, now you're adding all that traffic into the residential side.
We already have problems in there now with Jimmy John's, which is a sandwich delivery
place. Those guys go speeding through there all times of the day and there are some
speed bumps there, they slow down for those, but they roll right through the stop signs.
We have been to Jimmy John's several times and management says, okay, I will talk to
my people, but they don't do anything about it. So, with that congestion that we have
and, then, with the additional congestion of everybody coming in on Centrepoint, it's going
to be a nightmare trying to get in and out of that location. Most of the residents in the
housing development there, which is Jackson Square, are retired folks. They are going
to be really upset with music and outdoor speakers going at 11:00 o'clock at night. So,
that's going to be a big concern for the retirement community of people that are in there.
We have concerns about the denigration of our property values. While the athletic facility
looks great and, you know, it looks like something that could be beneficial. It's going to
have a negative impact on the residents in that area. So, for those reasons we are highly
concerned about this going forward.
McCarvel: Okay.
Park: Thank you.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 55 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 53 of 64
McCarvel: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify? Okay. Would the applicant like
to come back.
Thompson: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Tamara Thompson, again, for
the record. So, I took I think good notes and I will try to address as many comments as
possible. For the first two gentlemen that spoke along this property line over here, so
from the residential portion they have a six foot block wall that separates -- these -- these
properties are actually in the county that separates the R1 county properties from the R-
8 properties and in our development agreement the 2005 development agreement, that
was agreed to to continue that wall to the corner and that would -- that would continue to
be a part of this develop -- the new development agreement. We are not proposing to
take that out. So, just to reiterate that. And, then, with the other development we actually
had buildings and uses in -- in this area. This parking lot is anticipated to be employee-
only parking. I mean there is not going to be someone out there that, you know, is
checking to make sure it's not, but it's -- it definitely is not -- it's for employees and most
people with small children will be parking over there. We will be widening the road from
the way it is right now and we did a traffic study, it was submitted to ACH -- ACHD in July
of this year and we addressed their comments in September, but I saw in the staff report
we still don't have a staff report from them. So, they -- they are busy like everyone else,
but -- but in the traffic study I can tell you that getting the light synced for the signal for
the -- for the development is part of it, plus this road would be widened as well. So, with
development it seems a little counterintuitive sometimes, but improvements are made
with -- with development. This approach -- or this access to Ustick is right-in, right-out
only. There is a median here and the -- the accesses that ACHD put in when they widen
the intersection a decade or so ago, you will see those were -- those actually -- and I can
just go to that if you want to see. The -- they line up exactly across and that's before --
well, that's a long way back. I have a lot of slides here. There we go. You can see they
line up exactly across from -- because that's how -- that's how they typically put them in
is straight across. But now that there is a medium in there that is no longer needed. So,
those -- those two would close up and -- and the third one that we put in that's a little bit
further back from Ustick because of the -- the turn lanes here, that that shared access
would be right-in, right-out only. Let's see. As far as residential shields -- so, interestingly,
I processed the entitlements for the Edwards out at Cole that has seven miles of neon
that wrap that Edwards building and that was a big deal that, you know, neighbors were
concerned about lighting. Lighting is always a concern. But we do have good light
standards now where they have residential shields on them and we can block that light
at the property line and we do photo metric studies with our developments that -- that will
ensure that. Let's see. The increase in traffic. Traffic is always a concern, especially in
the Eagle Road corridor. The -- first the ambient noise that is created by this. When we
did these entitlements the first time, the -- the Lowe's had just gone in and a lot of those
neighbors came to our neighborhood meeting and they were concerned about sound and
light and noise and it was amazing that they actually admitted that putting a building in
helped with their sound tremendously from the ambient noise of just the -- the road and
so the Lowe's helped the neighborhood back behind there and the building here will do
the same thing, it will help block that, and to get back to traffic, we have a development
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 56 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 54 of 64
agreement currently. There is entitlements for this property. It's not going to remain a
vacant field for much longer, but we do have entitlements for 150,000 square feet of retail.
Having a retail facility here with loading docks and you're going to have the same parking
lot lights, it is a larger facility with 150,000 square feet that, they will -- all those concerns
are -- are still there and those are definitely something that we have been mindful of and
we have addressed those in our -- in our proposal. The -- the traffic improvements that
-- that will go in as far as the widening of CenterCal, different -- there is quite a large
ACHD impact fee that will go with this building that will help to create regional
improvements. As far as members only, the use of the pools and the athletic facility does
have a membership component to it and -- but there is many things with the facility that
are open to the public. The -- the cafe -- what you saw is open to the public and the spa
services are open to the public and, then, they do have guest passes and they have
different membership drives, you know, so it is -- it is affordable. I looked at it. I'm -- I
consider myself in the middle class and -- and I could afford it. Let's see. Lighting. Oh,
as far as Jimmy John's. So, in our traffic study, that was something that was looked at
as far as, you know, where -- where access is -- is located. Most cars for access heading
north on Eagle Road would use the light at Centrepoint. And, again, that would be -- that
timing would be worked out with ACHD to alter that timing. And, then, for Jimmy John's
and for these users, there is going to be this connection here now that you could get to
-- and that's part of the conditions of approval is the cross-access agreement and that --
that agreement, like I said before, is in place, but it's been something that has -- that
connection hasn't been made, because development hasn't occurred. But this connection
does come through to this location and, hopefully, we could keep a lot of that traffic off of
the residential streets and through the commercial development where it's more
appropriate. And, again, noise and sound and lighting. Those are all things we can
mitigate with -- with -- with -- with different buffers. I do have actually a last -- a picture.
This is kind of the pool area and as far as the sound goes, they have all these little
canopies and umbrellas and those -- those are huge sound buffer as well on the -- on the
interior and, then, property values. Property values is something -- I have been doing this
for over 20 years, which is weird to say some things over 20 years, but the property values
always come up and it's -- it is something that I'm always curious about and I go back and
check on things and it's never come to fruition. In fact, having an unknown and having a
vacant piece of property is more of a property value -- devaluant than it is to have a quality
development, which is -- which is certainly what this is, a very quality development and a
good neighbor. So, again, the -- the retail uses are much more intense and those loading
facilities are much more intense than a seasonal outdoor swim facility. And with that I will
just wrap up with that we have read the staff report with the conditions that I -- the modified
conditions that I mentioned before that we respectfully request your approval tonight.
McCarvel: Any questions for the applicant? You said Centrepoint is going to be widened.
I'm assuming at least a left-hand turn and maybe a right lane out or what are we looking
at?
Thompson: I believe the left-hand turn -- yes. I don't know about the right-out.
McCarvel: That's what's coming out from the other side.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 57 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 55 of 64
Thompson: Yeah.
McCarvel: And how far back does that get widened then? Just the left turn space or all
the way back to Piccard or where the --
Thompson: I didn't bring that report with me and I don't -- I don't recall.
McCarvel: Okay.
Thompson: I don't recall. But all that -- you know, it was something that ACHD gives the
whole scope of everything and -- and -- and, like I said, we submitted that July. They
came back with comments. We resubmitted to address their comments in September
and -- and we are waiting on that -- that to be finaled.
McCarvel: Okay. Any other questions for staff?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Tamara, would you guys be interested -- or not interested, I'm sure, but willing
-- if there was a desire for like a brick wall to be along Piccard as a -- additional buffer,
instead of a six foot picture frame fence? Is that something that you would be willing to
do if -- I mean as an additional sound barrier? Because we can't berm it as much,
because it's too close to the property line I would guess -- to do additional sound buffering
there.
Thompson: Madam Chair, Commissioner, the entire -- the entire length is considerable
and --
Fitzgerald: It is.
Thompson: -- and I would -- we did talk about that before and it's -- it's cost prohibitive to
do that entire area. I think what would be -- you know, this -- this really -- it's not the entire
area that is the concern. As far as on this area, we would be willing to work with staff on
some sound mitigation measures and there is a handful of them that -- that could be --
that could be implemented.
Fitzgerald: Okay.
McCarvel: Probably all the way back just to the corner of the building maybe.
Fitzgerald: Yeah. Or something that would provide some additional --
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 58 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 56 of 64
McCarvel: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: On that aspect is there -- had it been -- has it been looked at to change the
dimensions of that building to make it more of a rectangle instead of a square and, then,
maybe that -- I think you mentioned was a kids play area on the -- on the east side, that
grass, bring that to -- bring that to abut Piccard Lane to create space there.
Thompson: Over -- over here?
Cassinelli: To move it away -- to move the building -- to create more space there between
the homes there on the -- on the south side and bring that -- bring that play area alongside
that fence. To reorient some things there to -- to add some extra buffer space between
the building and the homes.
Thompson: Yeah. I see what you're saying. So, Madam Chair, Commissioner, a couple
things. I didn't get into the height of the building, which -- which was brought up. Our
building -- this building is 36 feet high on the backside. For the C-G zone the height can
be 65 feet. So, we are -- we are not even close to the maximum height that is allowed in
that zoning designation. We have looked at several different ways to develop the site
and we have many constraints. The -- the Milk Lateral that runs through here gives us a
pinch point. We are going to be undergrounding that. But we still have to work within the
easements that the irrigation district has and, then, creating the cross-access to get down
and it just -- it gets really pinched in that area and we have looked at -- at a lot of different
-- different scenarios and this one is -- is where we have come with keeping at least a
hundred feet separation from the nearest residential uses.
McCarvel: Any other questions for the applicant? Thank you.
Thompson: Thank you.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair? Oh, go ahead.
Holland: Madam Chair, I move we close the public hearing for Item H-2018-0121.
Cassinelli: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for H-2018- 0121.
All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Allen: If I may, staff would recommend striking 2.1K. The -- the last sentence on that
where it's noted that there is a 30 foot long gap in the sidewalk along Cajun Way off site.
That -- you know, in retrospect that really doesn't make sense, because there will -- or
there should be an access driveway there. So, I'm sure that's why it wasn't constructed
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 59 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 57 of 64
before. So, staff would recommend waving just the second part of that -- or the last
sentence I should say. The first part, a pedestrian walkway shall be extended from the
sidewalk along the east side of Cajun Way along the driveway into this site to the main
building. Entrance should remain.
Cassinelli: What number is that?
Allen: 2.1K, page 16.
McCarvel: Okay. There is a lot to love about this. I think with just a few tweaks we can
get there. I'm hoping. I would love to move it to way farther south in Meridian. But I do
think with Center Way being widened as it should, because there really would need to be
a left turn lane out of there and that parking lot with really no other buildings and nobody
expecting pedestrians, I would -- I just -- I would love to see an electronic flashing
pedestrian path cross way there, even if it is just intended for employees. You -- there is
no way to stop that and it -- with landscaping and trees I just don't think it's anticipated for
most drivers to be people crossing there. And I think -- I mean with the trees and stuff
that are already there and that being just a summertime lap pool, I think the distance is
okay. I just -- I'm wondering about the hours. I mean I do realize a lot of people like to
do the early morning, but maybe they can do the inside or at least that there be very strict
absolutely no music. No -- I mean just strictly laps out there. I think some of the traffic
-- especially that stuff like Jimmy John's, like she said, I think that would actually reduce
some of that traffic if they could go out through this commercial area. But I think, you
know, you're going to have something big there. It's -- and I think this use is a nice change
for the intersection.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I like the project. Certainly I understand the residents' concerns with -- with
traffic. We know all development opportunities tend to bring more traffic. But I appreciate
that the applicant's working to widen Centrepoint Way and they will work with ACHD on
the timing of the light to make it more efficient, which ultimately should help benefit the
residents' abilities to exit the -- the neighborhood more easily, too, if they work to sync
those lights a little bit better. You know, the only major thing I think we need to work on
is what the hours of operation are, since it's a conditional use permit request. I don't have
a big concern with the facility operating, you know, from 4:00 a.m. to midnight for the
indoor activities. I don't see a huge concern with that. I think the main concern would
just be with the outdoor activities and if they do -- I don't have a concern with someone
using the lap pool necessarily at 5:00 a.m. But as long as it was restricted just to the
adult lap pool and not having kids out there, I think that should be a condition potentially
that we put in there. I think the 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. sounds reasonable for the -- the
outdoor music.
Fitzgerald: Agree.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 60 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 58 of 64
McCarvel: Or was at 9:00 p.m. I thought --
Fitzgerald: I thought it was 9:00 to 11:00 requested and I think --
Holland: In the staff report it says up -- up above that it was outdoor music only operating
from 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
McCarvel: Okay.
Holland: I think it's a nice amenity for Meridian. There is not a lot of spaces where people
can go access outdoor pools, unless they have them in their neighborhood units or if they
want to, you know, go to a YMCA type facility, but I think it's a nice amenity that looks like
it's got some good programming and would be a good fit for Meridian on that corner.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I totally agree. I think it becomes a community center type place with uses
that will benefit the community, whether it's cafe or it's programming for schools around
the neighborhood -- around the area. I do agree with you, I think that some of the cross-
access will ease some of the traffic issues and widen, you know, Centrepoint Way will
take some of the concerns around there. I would be interested in the comments on -- like
some kind of a wall or something. I'm not sure if that fits in with the neighborhood or not.
Maybe that's not a problem. But I do -- I think the project is beautiful. I think it will be an
asset to the area, but I think if the conversation -- I agree it's an hours question remains.
Cassinelli: Down to me? I like how we are going in order every time. I -- I -- I am not
fond -- to get the timing out of the way first, I wouldn't be up for the exception to 5:00 a.m.
I think anybody coming in early there is an indoor pool, you know, even if it's in the middle
of July or August. If you're there at 4:00 or 5:00 a.m. use the indoor one. I think we got
to keep that -- if we start making exceptions on those sorts of things, it's going to become
a problem. So, I don't want to do that. Sonya, I have a question for you. On the -- on
the setbacks from residential district, what Tamara was showing us was -- she was
measuring it from a home. Where would it put it -- or what's the edge of the residential
district? Is it on the north side of Piccard Lane?
Allen: Just a moment, Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: While you're looking at that, all in all, I mean I -- I don't think traffic's going to
be a huge killer, especially what could go in there.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 61 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 59 of 64
Cassinelli: Noise -- you know, regular -- regular noise, not out -- that notwithstanding the
exceptions they are looking for -- the pools and whatnot during the normal -- what -- what's
already code, I don't think that's a problem. The homes on Leslie Way, they are actually
having -- they are fortunate in this design that there is nothing going in on that little lot
there, you know, some of their views is not going to be blocked and this building will knock
down some of the noise from Eagle Road and Ustick. So, those aren't the issues. My --
the -- the only ones I have are -- are the hours. I don't -- I wouldn't support making an
exception on that and, then, I want to look at the -- I want to look at the building and how
close it is Piccard Way there. So, Sonya, what are you --
Allen: Commissioner Cassinelli, the zoning goes -- I believe it goes clear to this fence
line right here.
Cassinelli: So, it would be a hundred feet from that fence line to the building, is that --
that's what it would be -- that's what would be code?
Allen: There is -- there is several different sections of code -- or more than one. There
is a couple I believe. One of them is that the outdoor event or activity center, which
includes, but it's not limited to the swimming pools, shall be located within 50 feet of any
property line. The swimming pool language is what I put in. The code actually reads:
The outdoor event or activity center shall be located within 50 feet of any property line
and shall operate only between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m. That is per our
specific use standards.
Fitzgerald: And I thought we were 7,200 feet.
Cassinelli: On the pools?
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Cassinelli: Okay. I guess I'm more concerned about the building.
Allen: Commissioner Cassinelli, I'm unable to scale this right now.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Holland: Commissioner Cassinelli, your concern on the hours, do you have any concerns
on the indoor activities on timing?
Cassinelli: No. Because I mean the noise -- that's not going to get to the outside. It's the
-- it's -- you know, people -- people swimming at 5:00 a.m.
Fitzgerald: So, can swim at 6:00, but not 5:00?
Cassinelli: Well, 6:00 is -- 6:00 is what's allowed right now. You know, we are not here
to change that. We are -- we are -- you know, we are being asked for an exception to
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 62 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 60 of 64
that and I think 5:00 is -- I wouldn't want to be the one living there when -- and now there
is somebody jumping in the pool of 5:00 a.m.
Holland: Madam Chair, Commissioner Cassinelli, looking at what's in the -- the staff
report recommendations, condition -- for the conditional use permit, the 2.1D, it says in
there right now the outdoor event or activity center should operate between the hours of
6:00 o'clock and 11:00 o'clock. So, it looks like they are asking for a one hour exception
on there. I'm okay whether it's 6:00 o'clock or 5:00 a.m. I think they are asking for a one
hour exception on it, just to note that. The other thing, too, is looking at where the property
lines are, I don't have a concern with changing the language to say that it's from residential
structure property lines to where this building is, because you do have the roadway that
separates it and you have got the green space that separates it. You don't have any
residential neighbors that would be adjacent to the property line itself of the proposed
structure. If you look at the map there is really only two residences that would be behind
the visibility corridor of that -- that building itself. I mean it will -- they will all see it for sure,
but there is two that are the closest on there when I'm looking at the map.
Fitzgerald: The challenge is -- not challenge or -- is that we could put a 65 foot building
in there. That's the -- in C-G zone. Whether that's the right answer or not, but that's --
McCarvel: Yeah.
Fitzgerald: That's the -- considering I guess the challenge when you have a commercial
zone on a hard corner like that.
Holland: One other comment if I may, too. The way that the building is situated right now
faces the side yards of those two houses, which I think also makes a different impact, too,
so they are not going to necessarily be looking out their front window at it.
Cassinelli: On the -- still on the timing. I mean anybody that's there at that hour, the
indoor pool is available. They can use that. I don't see that we -- I don't see that they --
I mean it's -- that's -- this isn't -- the -- the 5:00 a.m. is not a -- it's not a deal killer for the
facility. They are not going to -- they are not going to lose members. They are not going
to lose money over that one hour. That's not -- that's not the issue.
McCarvel: For just the outdoor pool. Yeah.
Cassinelli: What's that?
McCarvel: For just the outdoor pool. Yeah.
Cassinelli: I mean some people swimming laps for -- for an hour that -- that's -- that's not
going to stop somebody from becoming a member, because they still have a -- there is
still a pool. There is still somewhere for them swim laps at 5:00 a.m. It's just indoor, not
outdoor. So, my other -- my other issue, my other concern is the -- is -- is the setback of
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 63 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 61 of 64
the building, that it's right up against the property line. So, it doesn't meet the -- I mean
right -- right now, unless we, you know, make -- make the exception on that, we are --
McCarvel: Yeah. I'm -- I think I'm okay with that setback, just because, like I said, the
angle of those houses and there is a mitigating factor, the -- that lateral, I mean they just
don't have much to work with there. They have got to protect that easement along the
front of the building. There is not a lot of room for them to go there.
Holland: Madam Chair, just to recap some of the applicant's requests to make sure we
are not missing anything. A couple of the requests they had was 1.1A, just changing the
number, because I think it was just a -- a reference point. It should be seven, not eight.
I don't see any concerns with that. I think it's just a correction. They wanted to change
the language in the staff report on 1.1 and 2.2, noting that they -- changing from residential
structure, not district. I think that's what Commissioner Cassinelli is wrestling with over
here is the language of whether we are talking about the structures themselves or the
district itself.
Cassinelli: Correct. And that -- I mean that -- that's a big difference. That's a huge
difference there.
Holland: And, then, I think the only other things they are talking about are striking note
2.1K, which staff agreed with as well, just the second half of that condition where the note
was written in there. And, then, we have also talked about working with having the
applicant work with staff to create a sound buffer between the pool and the house area
and, then, also working with staff and ACHD on a crosswalk that would connect that
parking lot. I think that's -- that's pretty much what we have discussed, unless there is
something else we need to talk about, too.
Fitzgerald: No. I think you're -- I think you hit them all.
McCarvel: Yeah. I think the hours I think we are all kind of in agreement to leave that at
6:00 a.m.
Holland: I'm happy to throw out a motion, unless we want to keep discussing, but --
McCarvel: Roll with it.
Fitzgerald: So, quick question. So, 2.2 talks about 5:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. versus 4:00
a.m. to -- am I understanding that correctly? Versus 4:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. for the whole
spa? Just -- I'm making -- I'm making sure I'm clear on that.
Holland: It's my understanding they would like to have the actual hours for the indoor
facility from 4:00 a.m. to midnight and the outdoor facility we would allow from 6:00 a.m.
to 11:00 p.m. for the outdoor, with the music only operating from 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
Fitzgerald: Okay. And I'm just making -- Sonya, on 2.2, that's not what we want; correct?
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 64 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 62 of 64
Allen: Madam Chair, the staff report is incorrect.
Fitzgerald: Okay. I just wanted to make sure. So, we need to restate --
Allen: What Commissioner Holland just stated is correct.
Fitzgerald: Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to make sure we strike 2.2 -- or replace it with
what you just said, which is here.
Allen: Just -- just tell me --
Fitzgerald: In your motion.
Allen: And I can -- yeah.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Holland: All right. After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to City Council of file number H-2018-0121 as presenting in the staff
report for the hearing date of December 20th, 2018, with the following modifications: One,
that we adjust the staff report for 1.1A, stating the number seven instead of number eight.
That we would adjust the language in the staff report to talk about the separation from
residential structures versus the district. That we would strike the note in item 2.1K and
just leave the first part of that sentence as we discussed. That the applicant work with
staff to create a sound buffer that would mitigate some of the concern of noise pollution
between the pool and the houses neighboring. That the applicant would work with staff
and ACHD on creating some sort of crosswalk and ease of pedestrian access to the
facility from the west parking lot and that the hours of operation can be adjusted, so that
the facility can be operated from 4:00 a.m. to midnight for indoor activities, 6:00 a.m. to
11:00 p.m. for outdoor activities, with outdoor music only operating from 9:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m. I think that's it.
Fitzgerald: Second.
McCarvel: It has been --
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Oh.
Cassinelli: Before we take a vote I had just a question on that motion. So, you're -- what
you stated there is changing it from residential district to actual the residence.
Fitzgerald: Structure.
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 65 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 63 of 64
Holland: To the -- the property line of structures.
Cassinelli: I just wanted to make clear. I wanted to make the clear before I cast my vote.
Thank you.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to approve -- we are doing both in the same
motion?
Fitzgerald: Recommendation.
McCarvel: The conditional use permit -- okay. To approve H-2018-0121 with
modifications. All those in favor say aye. Opposed.
Cassinelli: Nay.
McCarvel: Good count. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. THREE ABSENT.
McCarvel: Any other messages from staff before we adjourn? Okay.
Fitzgerald: Happy Holidays.
McCarvel: Merry Christmas.
Fitzgerald: Merry Christmas.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I move we adjourn the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for December
20th, 2018.
Cassinelli: I will second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:15 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda January 3, 2019 – Page 66 of 128
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
December 20, 2018
Page 64 of 64
APPROVED
RHO NDA McCARVEL - CHAIR AN
A
T
Ap
AY C - CI L E R K
J-1 (3 1
DATE APPROVED
Cif n( 6
C'
E IDIAN�.
Z IDAHO
SEAL
2
T��ofinc> rRFn`j" 1