2018-09-06Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting September 6, 2018.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of September 6, 2018, was
called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Acting Chairman Jessica Perreault.
Members Present: Commissioner Jessica Perreault, Commissioner Bill Cassinelli,
Commissioner Steven Yearsley, Commissioner Gregory Wilson, and Commissioner
Lisa Holland.
Members Absent: Chairman Rhonda McCarvel and Commissioner Ryan Fitzgerald.
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Andrea Pogue, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, Scott
Colaianni, Joe Bonjiorno and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance
__X____ Lisa Holland ___X___ Steven Yearsley
__X___ Gregory Wilson _______ Ryan Fitzgerald
__X___ Jessica Perreault ___X___ Bill Cassinelli
_______ Rhonda McCarvel - Chairman
Perreault: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I would like to call to order
the regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission on
September 6th, 2018. Let's begin with roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
Perreault: Thank you. Okay. The next order of business is the adoption of the agenda.
Could I get a motion to adopt the agenda?
Cassinelli: So moved.
Wilson: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor say aye.
All opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of August 16, 2018 Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
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B. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for Zions Bank (H-2018-
0077) by Matt Huffield, Located at 1767 W. Island Green Dr.
Perreault: Next is the Consent Agenda. We have two items on the Consent Agenda,
the approval of minutes of the August 16th, 2018, Planning and Zoning Commission
meeting and Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for Zion's Bank. H-2018-0077, by
Matt Huffield, located at 1767 West Island Green Drive.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Yes.
Cassinelli: I move we approve the Consent Agenda.
Perreault: Thank you.
Wilson: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded -- seconded. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed? Okay. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Perreault: So, next I would like to explain the public hearing process -- briefly explain
the public hearing process. We will open each item individually and, then, start with the
staff report. The staff will report their findings regarding how the item adheres to our
Comprehensive Plan and Uniform Development Code with their recommendations.
After the staff has made their presentation, the applicant will come forward to present
their case for the approval of their application and respond to any staff comments. The
application -- the applicant will have 15 minutes to do so. After the applicant has
finished we will open to public testimony. There is a sign-up sheet in the back as you
entered for anyone wishing to testify. Any person wishing to testify will come forward
and be allowed three minutes. If they are speaking for a larger group, like an HOA,
there will be -- there will be a show of hands to represent the group and they will be
given ten minutes. After all testimony has been heard, the applicant will be given
another ten minutes to have the opportunity to come back and respond if they choose to
do so. After that we will close the public hearing. The Commissioners will have
opportunity to discuss and, hopefully, be able to make a recommendation to City
Council.
Item 4: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Razzberry Point Villas Subdivision (H-2018-
0072) by Ed Bowman, Located at 1434 and 1492 E. Star Dr.
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1. Request: Rezone of 1.86 acres of land from the L-O zoning
district to the R-15 zoning district; and
2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of nineteen (19) single
family residential lots and two (2) common lots on
approximately 1.86 acres of land in the proposed R-15
zoning district
Perreault: At this time I would like to open the public hearing for -- actually, prior to
doing that, I would like to just note that the -- the public hearing for Raspberry Point
Villas Subdivision, H-2018-0072, that application has been withdrawn and we won't be
having a hearing on that this evening. Has anybody shown up for that or --
Johnson: We did not have sign-ins, but we did have several people here and I did talk
to people who I noticed were here for Raspberry Point, did notify them of that.
Perreault: Okay.
Johnson: We received the cancellation after we had noticed, so we were unable to
withdraw that.
Perreault: Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. Next we will open the public hearing --
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Excuse me.
Yearsley: Do we not need to make a motion to accept the withdrawal?
Perreault: No.
Yearsley: Okay.
Perreault: My understanding that we don't.
Yearsley: Okay.
B. Public Hearing for Residential District Naming Convention
Text
Amendment (H-2018-0059) by DevCo Development LLC
1. Request: A Text Amendment to Change the Naming
Convention of the Residential Districts of R-2, R-4, R-8, R-15
and R-40 to R-A, R-B, R-C, R-D, R-D and R-E, and Modify
Other Related Sections in Chapters 1 - 3 of the Unified
Development Code (UDC) to Coincide with the Proposed
Naming Convention
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Perreault: All right. We will now open the public hearing for Residential District Naming
Convention text amendment by Devco Development and it's my understanding they
would like to continue. So, can I get a motion to continue to October 4th?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Wilson: Madam Chair?
Yearsley: I moved to continue the public hearing on Residential District Naming File
Convention text amendment, File No. H-2018-0059 to October 4th, 2018.
Wilson: Second.
Perreault: Thank you. At this time it has been moved and seconded to continue to
October 4th. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing for EEG Office Building (H-2018-0081) by Chad
Slichter, Located at 551 SW 5th Ave.
1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a 12,825 square foot
office/storage building on 0.993 acres of land in an L-O
zoning
district
Perreault: Next item on the agenda we have the public hearing for EEG Office Building,
H-2018-0081 and I understand this afternoon they also made a motion to continue -- or
request, excuse me, to continue to September 20th. So, can I get a motion for that
continuance?
Wilson: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: I moved to continue EEG Office Building, H-2018-0081 to the date of
September 20th, 2018.
Yearsley: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to continue H-2018-0081 to September
20th. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
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D. Public Hearing for Fire Station No. 6 H-2018-0083 by Meridian
Fire Department, Located at 1435 W. Overland Rd.
1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a Fire Station (quasi-
public use) on 1.99 acres in the R-8 zoning district
Perreault: Next on the agenda is the public hearing for Fire Station No. 6, H-2018-0083,
by Meridian Fire Department and we will begin with the staff report.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The first application
before you tonight is a request for a conditional use permit. This site consists of 1.67
acres of land. It's zoned R-8 and located at 1435 West Overland Road. Adjacent land
use and zoning. To the north is West Overland Road and an RV dealership, zoned I-L.
To the west is vacant land, zoned RUT in Ada county. To the south are apartments that
are currently in the development process, zoned R-15. And to the east are single family
residential -- is a single family residential use and the Boise Party Barn, zoned R-8.
This property was annexed earlier this year. The Comprehensive Plan future land use
map designation is medium density residential. A conditional use permit is requested
for a 13,000 square foot -- excuse me. I have the wrong text here. A fire station -- no.
Actually, it is. Excuse me. Thirteen thousand square foot public, quasi-public use, a fire
station, in an R-8 district, to include an apparatus bay, living quarters for staff, and
offices. The fire station is proposed to be constructed in two phases, with the first
phase consisting of a 10,700 square foot fire station with two apparatus bays, work
areas, living quarters and offices. The second phase will consist of a 2,300 square foot
addition, with an additional apparatus bay, battalion chief suite, and two additional
sleeping rooms. The site plan depicts how the site is proposed to develop with two
accesses via West Overland Road. The eastern driveway will provide access to the
parking area for the public and employees and access to the enclosed apparatus space
and the western driveway will provide for emergency vehicle departure via Overland
Road. A landscape street buffer and parking lot landscaping is required as proposed.
Conceptual building elevations were submitted for the future fire station as shown. One
without the future edition and one with the addition. The proposed building is a single
story in height and building materials consist of CMU masonry walls with a mix of
texture with banding, aluminum storefront and metal panel system with glazing. The
future structure is required to comply with the standards listed in the UDC and the
architectural standards manual. Written testimony has been received from Gunnar
Gladix, the applicant's representative. He is in agreement with the staff report. Staff is
recommending approval with the conditions in the report. Staff will stand for any
questions.
Perreault: Thank you, Sonya. Are there any questions the Commissioners have for
staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward. Please state your name and
address for the record.
Adams: Good evening.
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Perreault: Good evening.
Adams: Matthew Adams. 462 East Shore Drive, Suite 100, Eagle, Idaho. And I'm here
on behalf of the architect to answer any questions if you have them, but as Sonya
stated, we are in agreement with the staff report and we look forward to moving forward.
Thank you.
Perreault: Any questions for the applicant, commissioners? Okay. At this time we
would like to take public testimony. Is there anybody here to testify or to give
testimony?
Johnson: Madam Chair, we had one sign in. Matthew Adams. Oh, sorry. No
additional sign-in.
Perreault: Okay. Well, it doesn't sound like the applicant has anything additional to
add, so at this time can I get a motion to close the public hearing?
Wilson: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: I move to close the -- H-2018-0083, Fire Station No. 6.
Holland: Second.
Cassinelli: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: You know, it's kind of hard to not like a fire station.
Wilson: It's a good looking one.
Yearsley: And it does, it looks really nice, and I think it's a good area. It's needed
probably in that area to keep the service up, so I am in favor of this application.
Cassinelli: I would have to agree and I think -- didn't we -- we dealt with the access to
this a few months ago, didn't we, on this one, so --
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Yearsley: Yeah.
Cassinelli: So, I like the design. It's kind of cool.
Holland: I would agree. I don't have any concerns. It looks like they have got a pretty
nice plan put together.
Wilson: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend approval to City Council of file number H-2018-0083.
Holland: Second.
Yearsley: So, this is actually a conditional use permit. Don't -- are we recommend --
Cassinelli: It should be approve.
Wilson: I just read it verbatim. Yeah. That's right. So, let's -- let's do that again.
Perreault: Okay.
Wilson: After considering all staff, public -- applicant and public testimony, I move to
recommend -- or I move to approve file number H-2018-0083 as presented in the staff
report for the hearing date of September 6th, 2018.
Yearsley: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
E. Public Hearing for Owyhee High School (H-2018-0075) by West
Ada School District, Located at 7020 W. Ustick Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 108.76 Acres of Land
with an R-8 Zoning District; and
2. Request: Conditional Use Permit for an education institution
(high school) in an R-8 zoning with lighted fields and an
outdoor speaker system within and adjoining a residential
district
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Perreault: Okay. The next item on the agenda is a public hearing for Owyhee High
School, H-2018-0075 by West Ada School District.
Allen: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the next application before you is a
request for annexation and zoning and a conditional use permit. This site consists of
109 acres of land, zoned RUT in Ada county, located west of North McDermott Road on
the north side of West Ustick Road at 7020 West Ustick Road. Adjacent land uses and
zoning. To the north is rural residential agricultural properties, zoned RUT in Ada
County. To the east is North McDermott Road and rural residential agricultural
property, zoned RUT in Ada county. To the south is West Ustick Road, rural residential
and agricultural property in Canyon county. And to the west is rural residential
agricultural property zoned RUT in Ada county. The Comprehensive Plan future land
use map designation for this site is medium density residential. A school site is
designated on the future land use map in this general area. The applicant is requesting
approval to annex and zone a total of 108.76 acres of land, consisting of three parcels
from the RUT zoning district in Ada county to the R-8 zoning district in the city,
consistent with the medium density residential future land use map designation. A
conditional use permit is also requested for the following: An education institution in an
R-8 zoning district, lighted fields and an outdoor speaker system adjoining and within a
residential district. The generation of vehicle trips per day in excess of 1,500 and
access proposed from a collector street -- and there is not safe, separate pedestrian
and bike way access between the neighborhood and the school site, in accord with
UDC Table 11-2A-2 and the specific use standards listed in 11-4-3-14, education
institution. A conceptual development plan was submitted as shown that demonstrates
how the overall site is proposed to develop with a 246,390 square feet -- square foot
high school to serve 1,800 students on approximately 66 acres of land in the central
portion of the site, with 18.7 acres reserved for a future elementary school at the north
end. I'm going to just flip back here to this map. If you can see my pointer here, that's
where the elementary school is proposed and, then, future residential uses are
proposed on the 11.6 acres at the south end of the site and 15.43 acres on the east
side of the site, the Spriggle parcel. A conceptual development plan was not submitted
as requested by staff for the future residential areas, including the Spriggle parcel that
serves as the annexation path for the development. Conceptual building elevations
were submitted for the high school as shown. The structure is proposed to be divided
between one and two stories and building materials are proposed to consist of integral
colored structural CMU and CMU veneer and smooth and split face finish with pre-
finished metal panel -- accent panels. The roof is low slope membrane roofing,
concealed by a combination of parapet walls and mansard roof, finished with standing
seam metal roofing. Written testimony was received from Geoffrey Wardle, Spink-
Butler; Mark Freeman from Foley Freeman and Gerald Flower. This application has
been a really tough one for staff. Schools are very much needed in the north Meridian
area. Rocky Mountain is quite a bit over capacity right now. However, staff is
recommending denial of this application and I will just go through those reasons now for
you. Primarily for life safety reasons. The Fire and Police Department do not support a
single public access to the site as proposed for life safety reasons due to the size of the
project, anticipated occupancy of the high school, and future elementary school. Traffic
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generated from sporting events and the need for traffic to be able to enter and leave the
site efficiently and quickly, especially in the event of an emergency. In an emergency
situation, the single access could be blocked and there would be no other way in or out
of the site. The Fire Department cannot meet response time requirements for this
development without another fire station being constructed closer to the site. Ada
county EMS would also have extended response times to this site. Current resources
would not be adequate to supply service to this project. The Police Department
response times to this site are estimated to be beyond the average response times
recorded by Ada county. To mitigate the extended response time an SRO officer and
office would need to be provided at the school. Safe pedestrian and bicycle access to
the school site does not exist, because this property is in a rural area and there are no
sidewalks. Inclusion of the Spriggle parcel within the annexation boundary solely for the
purpose of providing an annexation path for the school -- without that parcel being part
of the development application promotes leapfrog development and creates sprawl,
which isn't good planning and doesn't allow for efficient provision of city services and
infrastructure to be constructed. It also creates a Swiss cheese issue for the Police
Department and that only the north half of Ustick and the west half of McDermott Road
would be in the city and that's just where the -- the project touches these streets and the
surrounding roadway would be in the county, which would require the Ada County
Sheriff's Department to service the unincorporated land and roadway in between. There
is approximately -- I'm going to flip to a different map here. There is approximately
2,500 acres west of Ten Mile Road to McDermott Road north of I-84 that is yet to be
annexed into the city and developed. The city annexed parcels are shown there and in
color. The -- the county is in white. Providing city services to this property is not an
efficient provision of services and creates confusion on service boundaries. No other
properties have been annexed on the west side of McDermott Road. In fact, a project
to the north of this site, Copper Brook Subdivision, was denied a couple of years ago
based on Council's decision that it was not in the best interest of the city to annex the
property at that time, based on comments from the public hearing. Reasons for denial
discussed at the hearing were that the Council wanted the city to develop from the
inside out, rather than the outside in, and the concern that stretching city services out
west of McDermott would take away services to existing residents and open up another
square mile for development. Nothing in this area has changed since that time, except
that many more developments have been approved and developed within the city that
further impact the provision of city services. Annexation of the school site would stretch
services even further. Because the school site doesn't extend all the way south to W est
Ustick Road and east to North McDermott Road, street buffer landscaping and
sidewalks are not proposed along these arterial streets. Additionally, because the
elementary school is not proposed to develop at this time, the north-south collector
street is not proposed to extend to the north boundary, which would create a gap in the
collector street if the property to the north of the annexation area develops. Annexation
of the subject property would create a domino effect for adjacent properties to request
annexation and further the sprawl and Swiss cheese issue experienced by the Police
Department when responding to calls. The city is currently receiving inquiries from
parties interested in developing land in the area west of McDermott near the school site.
The applicant's conceptual development plan does not contemplate ITD's local street
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access plan for the properties that currently have access via McDermott Road that will
be impacted by the extension of State Highway 16. While staff recognizes another high
school is very much needed in north Meridian, as I stated previously, staff does not feel
it's in the best interest of the city to annex this property for development at this time. At
some point in the future when the city boundaries expand more fully to this area, it
would be logical to annex and develop a school on this site, but with the life safety
issues noted by the Police and Fire Departments, staff does not feel it's in the best
interest of the city to annex the property at this time and recommends denial. Staff will
stand for any questions.
Perreault: Thank you, Sonya. Are there any questions for staff? And I would like to
point out to the Commissioners that we do have representatives here from Meridian
Police Department and Meridian Fire Department if you -- if Commissioners have any
questions for these gentlemen this evening. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Please state your name and address for the record.
Exline: Good evening. My name is, excuse me, Eric Exline, chief communication
officer for the West Ada School District. Our offices are located at 1303 East Central
Drive in Meridian.
Adams; I'm Matthew Adams with The Land Group and I'm at 462 East Shore Drive,
Suite 100, Eagle, Idaho.
Exline: This is going to be a team presentation.
Adams: I actually signed in as well, but it was just so you know I'm speaking tonight.
Exline: So, in addition to my role as the chief communication officer, I'm also
responsible for facilitating the committee that develops bond proposals to build new
schools and also the committee that develops the attendance areas for them. So, I'm
fairly familiar with the process of location of schools and how to adequately address
overenrollment. I will speak to the timely, orderly, and logical expansion of the
infrastructure and services proposed with construction of Owyhee High School, located
near the intersection of Ustick and McDermott Roads and I would start with the need --
the need for new school infrastructure occurs regularly in West Ada when the economy
is strong and residential construction is progressing at a healthy rate. West Ada had
super majority support for school bonds in 1996, '98, 2000, 2002, 2005 and, then, after
the recession in 2015 and 2018. The regular need for -- for bonds is the result of
student enrollment that has increased by 950 students on average per year since 1998.
In the case of the 2018 bond that received 67.3 percent support by voters, West Ada
has -- now has the authority to sell bonds for the construction of Owyhee High School,
along with several other large capital projects. The process that led to the decision to
include -- to include Owyhee High School in the proposed -- in the proposal included
parent and district administrators representing all West Ada schools. The challenge
faced by the committee was how to alleviate overcrowding at Eagle High School, which
is currently 271 students over capacity; Rocky Mountain High School, which is 639
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students over capacity; Mountain View High School, which is 495 schools -- students
over capacity and find a location that would accommodate the 8,781 approved home
sites in the Meridian attendance area and the more than 14,000 approved home sites
across West Ada and I would note that those home sites in Meridian's attendance area
alone will generate 2,000 future high school kids that will fill an entire high school. They
are just in the pipeline. So, the committee looked at three school sites owned by the
district. One in Star, one in the west central part of the school district, and one south of
I-84. The members concluded that one high school could not solve the overcrowding at
all three high school -- at all three schools that are over capacity and also absorb the
future growth potential. The committee concluded that the high school site south of I-84
would not be able to reduce the overcrowding at two schools north of the interstate, that
the site did not have viable water or sewer access, and building at that location was
very -- would result in two underenrolled high schools south of I-84, while leaving three
overhigh -- overcrowded high schools north of the freeway. The site in Star, while ready
to build in regards to sewer and water, was determined to be too distant from the large
concentrations of students where the most severe of overcrowding is occurring. In a
nearly unanimous decision-making process the committee's solution to these problems
to provide the necessary infrastructure in a timely, orderly, and most importantly logical
manner, was to build a new high school on the McDermott and Ustick site and also to
expand Mountain View to accommodate the current enrollment at that school. The
proposed Owyhee High School at the location proposed will allow the West Ada School
District to operate that school, along with Eagle High School, Rocky Mountain High
School and Meridian High School with enrollment numbers below these schools'
designed capacity and will allow the district to operate these schools for approximately
four to five years before the next high school is needed. Because of the severe and
worsening overcrowding at several of our current schools, the timing of the completion
of this project is critical and I would note each of those schools' enrollments this year --
Eagle High School's enrollment increased by about one hundred students. Rocky
Mountain's increased by about 70. Mountain View, luckily for us, remained flat and
Meridian High has increased by about a hundred from the end of last school year.
Finally, I ask the members of the Planning and Zoning Commission consider two
statements in the City of Meridian Comprehensive Plan regarding educational facilities.
First from page 34. In reference to the MUI area of Ustick Road, west of SH-16, quote:
Examples of uses including middle or high schools -- and further from that page, the
following types of appropriate uses and themes are envisioned at the two interchange
locations along SH-16 Ustick Road, educational civic, light retail, residential. And,
second, from the same documents -- goals, objectives, action items, 302 -- 3.02.01G,
quote, look for ways to streamline the permitting and land use review process for
approval of new school facilities. We will be lucky to get the school by open by 2020
and the overcrowding at all of those schools I mentioned is only going to worsen.
Ladies and gentlemen from the Commission, I thank you for your time. I turn the
remainder of our time over to Matt Adams with The Land Group.
Adams: Okay. Hang on, I'm going to go fast. Nine minutes and 20 seconds remaining.
Pedestrian access. I'm going to try to hit all the points Sonya brought up, so that we --
you can have a clear understanding of our approach. Idaho Code 67-6519, parenthesis
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(3), requires that we study pedestrian access and school busing at every school. We
did that. We had a traffic engineer study that and from our traffic impact study, which
was part of our application to ACHD, I will read from page 50: Due to the rural nature of
the school busing will be provided for all children. The school district will provide 14 to
16 buses for the high school. The bus staging and loading area has been designed to
accommodate 16 bus vehicles at one time, if needed. West Ada School District will bus
students to the school regardless of their proximity due to the safety concerns and that
is exactly what they do at Star Middle School at this time. So, there is a precedent that
they do that. Pedestrian safety from our impact study -- traffic impact study, page 51 or
52, onsite pedestrian circulation. This is from the study. Thoughtful plan with attention
to safety and function as primary objective. Off-site pedestrian accessibility, quote, due
to the lack of sidewalks, the school district will provide safety busing for all students
attending the new high school. As sections of the sidewalks are developed or
alternatives, such as pathways through private property are developed, busing to
certain areas could be reduced. This is not a unique situation. I live on Locust Grove.
There are not sidewalks the entire way. There are not sidewalks near Ambrose School.
Kids cross Chinden at that location. Busing is what will be provided. Students may
choose not to accept that and they may drive to the site. We do have a collector on our
west edge. Goes from Ustick to the north edge of our property with a cul-de-sac
turnaround for safety vehicles -- or for fire and service vehicles. The collector at the mid
mile that goes east-west does go across the entire property. It was mislabeled as a
local road. It is a collector and meets the requirements that ACHD has set forth. We
are providing sidewalks on both of those roadways, as well as along our Ustick frontage
to meet the requirements of ACHD. We are unable to build sidewalks beyond that on
parcels of land that we do not control. That's why we want to do the safety busing.
Sonya, could you open the emergency services plan? Emergency services. School is
-- school is one of the safest places for an American child. There is no question. All
data, all research backs that up. So, the kids are safe when they are at this facility.
Safer than at home. West Ada School District takes the safety of students seriously in
everything they do, including the planning of facilities and the operation of those
facilities. West Ada School District intends to have a student resource officer, an SRO,
on site. Our current building design has a dedicated SRO office. The proposed
development provides access, so that -- that's to cover police concerns. There will be
an SRO. Our proposed development provides access from Ustick Road, as noted by
staff, and the proposed mid mile collector and there is a connection to McDermott Road
via the sewer-water access drive that takes you out shown in purple on this plan. This
plan that's in front of you right now shows existing public roadways in green. Proposed
ACHD public roadways in blue. On-site fire access lanes in the cyan color, so you can
see we are well covered on site. And, then, we have the purple, an all weather fire
access lane that doubles as the sewer and water maintenance driveway. So, there is
two access points that are on opposite corners of the site. Meridian Fire Station No. 2,
located at Ten Mile Road, between Ustick and Cherry, is approximately 2.9 miles from
the site and we did that -- I am not a fire professional, but I did a Google Maps on it and
it said it was a five minute drive time. That -- I don't know how much traffic that takes
into account, things like that. Ada county EMS station is located at Ten Mile Road and
Ustick, which is approximately one half mile further. So, 3.4 miles from this site.
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Another item that we want to address is the State Highway 16 comments. So, Sonya, if
you could open the infrastructure and access plan, please. So, we have a neighbor to
the east of us -- several neighbors and West Ada -- we have worked very hard to
accommodate and have a good relationship and promote the school with all these
neighbors. There -- this neighbor has asked that due to the potential that the Highway
16 project will limit their access, they have asked that we construct a roadway to their
property. We take this -- this condition very seriously and the needs of our neighbors
very seriously. We are not in agreement with the requirement in the staff report that
West Ada School District construct the roadway. West Ada School District has offered
to the neighbor Woodside Avenue Investor, LLC, a dedicated easement from the north-
south collector to the Flowers parcel. This easement is south of the school site, located
on the north edge of the south parcel indicated to be future residential. The developer
of the Woodside parcel can construct within this easement and work with Flowers to
make the required connection when that roadway becomes necessary. Our project
does not create the need for that roadway. The Woodside development has access
today to Ustick and McDermott and we do not control the Flowers parcel and are unable
to complete that access. So, you see keynote four on the plan in front of you, that
would be the easement we could provide at no cost and, then, five is where Woodside
and Flowers would need to negotiate to complete that connection. Sonya, could you
open the pathways plan? So, there was a comment from Parks Department, Comment
6.4. It stated project develop -- developer -- well, there is two comments. One, they
would like us to construct a multi-use pathway on the south edge of the site. We have
proposed to do that. We think that's an excellent idea. And it's on the ditch alignment.
They have asked us to construct a ten foot wide multi-use pathway on the north-south
collector. This pathway -- we do not agree with this requirement. That connection is not
shown on the pathways master plan. So, our proposal is to provide an eight foot wide
detached concrete sidewalk on that alignment. And, then, we do have a land use plan
for this Spriggle parcel. If you would like it -- we misunderstood, we thought we were
told not to include it. We do have it available and we can provide it to you this evening,
so that you have that. This is that parks master plan. The blue square is our site and
you can see the green line that goes through is the -- we are complying with that. We
do not see anything on the master plan for the north-south connection. Finally, I want to
address the Swiss cheese development comments. Staff has indicated that the
approval of the application would cause a Swiss cheese issue for the Meridian Police
Department. For example, that they would have parcels which are inside of the city and
others which are nearby that would remain served by the county sheriff. The
Commission is well aware of the way annexation occurs in the city. City limits don't
happen in straight lines. The -- the map that Sonya provided that indicated the county
area versus city to show how much is available from Ten Mile west. Clearly there is an
irregular form to the city boundary. As annexation occurs there are always jogs and
bumps in the areas that Police and Fire are required to serve. This is not any different.
If you choose -- oh, excuse me. I would also like to indicate that -- one more thing on
the State Highway 16 issue. Sorry to jump back to that.
Perreault: If you would wrap up your comments. We are about out of time.
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Adams: Thank you. Last comment. The Woodside parcel currently does have frontage
on Ustick and McDermott. As development occurs in this area the city will have the
ability to require streets and connectivity to that parcel. There is no application from that
parcel before you tonight. Our application does not impact their access tonight. We
have offered a solution to them and have not been able to come to an agreement. They
declined our solution of an easement. They countered with -- they want us to construct
and pay for 90 percent of that roadway. That was not acceptable to us. That roadway
has no benefit to the West Ada School District and, therefore, we think it solely benefits
that property owner. They should carry the full cost of it.
Perreault: Thank you.
Adams: Thank you.
Perreault: Are there any questions for the applicant from the Commission?
Commissioner Yearsley?
Yearsley: Madam Chair. So, the one issue that I don't think has been addressed is -- I
think what's the -- the Fire Department, you have a secondary access for fire, but we
don't have a secondary access for individuals to get out if there is a -- a problem at the
entrance of the -- that collector road to get out. How do you want to address that? How
are we going to address that issue? Because -- because, certainly, to me that is a -- is
a huge concern if there is an accident or a fire at that intersection and no one could get
out.
Adams: Yeah. That's a good question. Thank you, Commissioner. At this time our
secondary access point is that sewer and water drive. It will be improved. It's a drivable
surface and it is available. The -- you know, the anticipation -- if we could we would
construct roads everywhere out here, but we can't do that. So, we will rely on the
roadways that ACHD has identified are required to provide an adequate level of service
for our facility and we need to, I guess, just rely on the fact that the public roadways are
designed per the standards that are required and -- yeah. Right now there are no other
developments providing roadways to the north or the east.
Yearsley: So, the follow-on question. Are we planning a light at that intersection at this
point or what's the -- what's the plan.
Adams: The intersection of Ustick and our collector?
Yearsley: That's correct.
Adams: Yeah. So, the -- so, that addresses ACHD. Yesterday we presented to ACHD.
An outcome of that meeting was that we are required to construct the collector as
shown. We are required to improve the Ustick frontage. We are required to create turn
lanes on Ustick at McDermott. We are required to do an interim signal at our collector
and Ustick. So, we will improve that intersection to be signalized. We are required to
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do a signalization at Star-Ustick and signalization at Star and McMillan. So, that -- that
intersection will be improved.
Yearsley: As a -- so, you did a traffic study. What was the level of service at that
intersection? Have you -- do you remember what that is?
Adams: That -- and, again, we are talking about the collector and Ustick --
Yearsley: Yes.
Adams: -- direct to the site. The level of service per the traffic impact study operated in
an acceptable level with simply a stop control on the collector. So, we took a look at --
the West Ada School took a look -- school district took a look, said we are not
comfortable with people turning left out of this site at a stop control on the 50 mile an
hour Ustick. The -- the district wants to -- and it is warranted -- not required, but it is
warranted to do a signal there, so -- so, we are above and beyond acceptable level of
service once we do the signal. Ultimately, Nampa Highway District will require a
roundabout at that location. However, it's not warranted at this time and ACHD and
Nampa Highway do not have funding to construct it. It's in the 2031 CIP.
Perreault: I have a question for you. What happens with that access off of McDermott
when -- when 16 comes through?
Adams: When Highway 16 comes through it would interrupt that sewer access. At that
time, you know -- I don't know, but at that time, knowing how far out they are with their
development plan of that roadway, my -- I would anticipate we would see this area fully
developed with housing and roadways. It would be reasonable to condition that if that
were to be interrupted we would need to create a secondary access to replace that.
Perreault: Okay.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: I have a question, actually, for Mr. Exline. Were there -- thank you for
coming back up. Were there other parcels that -- that West Ada owns in the area that
were considered to do the high school?
Exline: We do not own any other. We did consider a parcel that was about a half mile
away on the east side, as we were looking for land knowing that we were going to need
a high school in this area to serve for future growth, the choice that we had was to
purchase a 50 acre parcel about a half mile to the east for 100,000 an acre or five
million dollars or to purchase 90 acres on the other side of McDermott for 27,000 dollars
an acre and have property that would serve two school facilities. From a taxpayer
standpoint it was difficult to justify the difference in the expense in relation to the
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relatively short amount of distance. But we -- but that is the parcel that we own. We do
not own another high school site in that area.
Cassinelli: Thank you.
Yearsley: Actually, I have a couple of questions for you as well. Excuse me, Madam
Chair.
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Where is the end of the boundary for West Ada School District? Is it actually
at the county line or where does that boundary --
Exline: Commissioner Perreault and Commissioner Yearsley, it largely is Can-Ada
Road. Oddly there is a couple of very small pieces of land north of this site where it
crosses Can-Ada Road and I have been a long -- around a long time and I can't tell you
the history of how that happened in 1950 -- and we do have two square miles of our
district that are actually part of Canyon county where the cheese factory is, that's
actually in West Ada. That's our actual legal name is Joint School District No. 2 and the
joint refers to the fact that we cross two county lines or combined two counties.
Yearsley: Okay.
Perreault: It's my understanding that West Ada also owns this approximately 12 acres
on Ustick Road. What's the future plan for that and why not -- why not move the high
school closer to Ustick Road?
Exline: You answer the why not move closer.
Adams: Thank you, Commissioner. That area, as we looked at development, the --
there were two things that impacted us in our schedule to construct. One was the
operation of the dairy and the timing of when the lease could end and when that dairy
operator could move off. We also looked at the geographic features. The ditches. If
we were to slide south that -- the Sky Pilot Drain or sometimes known as the Settlers
Drain would have bisected nearly through our building the way the site plan wanted to
work out. So, as we evaluated that, we determined that it was best to shift it north and
move it off. We also think we have better circulation if we are further from the
intersection. And, then, finally, we felt that the district had an opportunity in the future to
sell that parcel and to recoup some of the costs of this land purchase.
Perreault: Any other questions?
Holland: Follow-up question to your first question. Would the dairy still be operational
when the school was built out?
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Adams: Good question, Commissioner. No. At this time the district has notified that
operator that the lease will be terminated and they are just working through the process
of finding a relocation site. The lease indicated that they have a 12 month period to
make their move. So, we are -- we are honoring that agreement. I know they are
looking, they have identified some sites, but at this time they have not begun any kind of
move. Once we are open the dairy will not be operating there.
Holland: Thank you.
Perreault: Okay. At this time we would like to take public testimony. Do we have a list?
Johnson: Madam Chair, we had seven people sign in. The first was --
Perreault: Okay.
Johnson: -- and I apologize for mispronunciation. Ed Klopfenstein.
Perreault: Please state your name and address for the record and each individual has
three minutes for their testimony.
Klopfenstein: Thank you very much. My name is Ed Klopfenstein. 1786 West Santa
Clara Drive in Meridian and I'm on the West School -- West Ada school board, but
tonight I'm speaking as a parent and as a community member. So, the idea is cause
and effect. Harming the education of kids is, obviously, not the effect the board wants
tonight, but that's the effect a no vote will have. With a no tonight and later I know by
the Council assuming they would vote no, the district most likely would have to delay
construction of Owyhee High School by one year, which means that kids from Rocky
and elsewhere will have to be bused to Meridian High School in the interim, which
means that Meridian will reach capacity earlier than expected, which means higher
class sizes and impact on families, which means more difficult learning environment,
which means more money and more unintended consequences, which means more
delays, more issues. It's a domino effect. We think we all can agree on that. However,
there are also two other domino effects that a no vote may bring that you may not have
thought of and one is a no vote tonight could mean the perception that schools no
longer have priority status in planning decisions by the city. Remember that the current
comp plan listed as number four, prevent school overcrowding and enhance educational
services. The district banked on that, but the district would have to believe that things
have changed. The perception may be that the district is just another developer. The
district is not just another developer. This is a community partner trying to handle the
growth that was approved by this board. Number two. A no vote by this board tonight
and, again, later possibly by the Council, may send a message that the district needs to
be very careful in selling the land that it had already -- that it had already purchased and
is already rezoned and, therefore, losing a tool to rezone cheaper property. Buying and
selling land allows the district to respond very early in the planning process, because
developers are not required to give school property for their new developments. To get
schools close enough to the kids and to afford cheaper property, the district has to
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invest in property near planned development as early in the planning process as
possible. Should a planned development fail, they need to sell quickly, so they can
invest elsewhere. If the district is not a priority in planning, then in which a no vote
would tell them this, then, they will second guess selling the land they currently have as
cheaper replacements already zoned would be hard to find. This may force the district
to rely on more expensive busing options and lose a viable tool that has been the
cornerstone in developing new properties for years. A no vote tonight has a real human
consequence and unforeseen consequences to the growth that this board is trying to
manage. I would respectfully ask that the board vote yes tonight and put kids first.
Thank you.
Perreault: Thank you.
Klopfenstein: Any questions? Thank you.
Johnson: Next you have David Ferdinand.
Perreault: Again, please, state your name and address for the record.
Ferdinand: Yes, Commissioners. David Ferdinand. I reside at 2419 West Heron Loop
in Nampa and I represent my clients, who reside at 4343 Ustick Road, directly across
the street. Listening to the presentation, I think we need to go back to 1892 when -- I
think that's a great time. 1892 is when Canyon county became Canyon county out of
Ada county. We have some concerns for the -- the Nampa impact area being in the
West Ada School District and so they are uniquely situated with their 76 acres of ag
ground and there are four home parcels directly across the street. The -- the Nampa
impact area shows that area as future planning for commercial and my clients are -- are
concerned with Highway 16 and so our question really is how does that area -- how are
they impacted when the Highway 16 division comes through and cuts across the
property, it would actually -- and the fact is if you could -- if you could put up the -- that
Highway 16, Ms. Allen, on -- if you -- if you can put that up there, you can see the -- you
can see exactly where the -- if you can see the corner of -- of -- right across the street
from the designated area where this -- the school will be -- yes. That -- that parcel right
there is -- is the Baum property and so I guess our -- our question is is infrastructure --
how can -- how are these areas going to be developed, especially for transportation
issues, especially with the Highway 16 development that's -- that's going to go through
and, then, the concern for what it's going to do for that neighborhood. We -- I listed
myself as neutral, because we are -- we are here to find out more information as to how
this will impact the rest of the W est Ada School District that is in Canyon county and if
this -- if this body would feel so -- you know, we would love to see the area across the
street annexed into the City of Meridian when you have the opportunity. Thank you.
Perreault: Thank you.
Johnson: Next sign in was Matthew Adams. Oh. We will -- we will skip to Geoff
Wardle.
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Wardle: Madam Chairman, Commissioners -- Sonya, is my PowerPoint there?
Perreault; Sir, please, state your name and address for the record.
Wardle: Geoffrey Wardle. My address is 251 East Front Street, Boise. I'm counsel for
Boise Hunter Homes and Woodside Avenue Investors and I recognize we are on a time
limit. We are the most impacted property owner. We have included a variety of
comments and we have had extensive discussions and I would request the ability to go
a little bit longer than our -- our three minutes, because I think we can help address
these issues. First and foremost, we are not here because we oppose this school. I am
a Rocky parent. I voted for this bond. My clients have a presence in this community.
We support it. Why we are here is due to the fact that we believe the City of Meridian,
Idaho Transportation Department, West Ada School District and ACHD, need to
address the totality of the impact that this is going to have on adjoining property owners.
As you can see in the map, Boise Hunter Homes owns the 40 acres that is at the
northwest corner of McDermott and Ustick. We have engaged the school district from
the beginning because of the fact that the -- because of the fact that our property will be
bisected by Highway 16. Our property -- over 40 percent of our property will be taken
and we are bounded entirely on the west by the West Ada School District and the
remnant of the Flowers parcel. That's why we have been so concerned about access.
We communicated this early on, because we recognize that ACHD's policies encourage
conductivity and that's what we are seeking to do. My client purchased this property 11
years ago, long before ITD came forward with their plan and once ITD came forward
with their plan this is where the Meridian City Code comes into play. What we are
asking for is preserve the conductivity, ensure the conductivity and let's address it now.
Otherwise, the school district's plan -- while Mr. Adams says, oh, it doesn't affect Boise
Hunter Homes' property, once Highway 16 is taken, once that right of way is not
preserved, once those other issues are not addressed, it imposes a greater impact on
the private property there in the future. Meridian City Code recognizes -- and we
appreciate the staff's comments and we support the staff's request, because your code
encourages connectivity in this area, through backage roads and through alignments to
provide that access. Indeed, that's what the Idaho Transportation Department
requested in their August 24th, 2018, letter that adequate right of way be preserved to
ensure access to those parcels that are going to be cut off from the connector -- the
collector because of both the location of the school district and Highway 16. We have
proposed three options and this is what we raised with ACHD. First, this planned local
road is what is in ITD's plan. The issue here, as we think about what happens, there will
be a highway interchange at this location and if I can just have two minutes more,
because we, obviously, are a very significant property owner and we have a solution.
So, the first solution was to preserve the right of way along the eastern side of the
school site. That's what's in your staff report. That's consistent with ITD's plan. The
second thing that we had proposed was, essentially, a backage road. Now, I disagree
with Mr. Adams. I appreciate his work on this, but the notion that this road doesn't
benefit the school district is erroneous. As a practical matter, based upon ACHD's
policy manual and based upon the requirements that will be imposed at this intersection
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when it is constructed, the only access for that southern piece of surplus the school
district has will be back to the collector, they will not get direct access onto Ustick Road.
If they weren't able to address the issue with -- with the Flowers, then, we provided that
solution. But we also believe the school district needs to address the fact that there is --
it doesn't do any good to provide an easement over Nampa-Meridian irrigation facilities.
So, we had proposed cost sharing and this is why we had proposed it. The West Ada
School District rejected it and they said, you know, you're demanding that we spend 90
percent. No. We suggested they pay for 80 percent of the cost and that Flowers and
Boise Hunter Homes pay the other 20 percent. The reason why is when you look at the
total area of surplus that's left, this is a facility that the West Ada School District or other
successor is going to have to build. We think it's an appropriate allocation. If it's not,
we are open to negotiation. The final thing is -- we recognize the staff report talks about
sewer and this goes to the larger infrastructure issue. When we looked at this site and
we look at this area, there needs to be a collaboration amongst all the property owners
and with West Ada being the first one to come in with an application for development,
they need to take the lead. The policy manual for your Public Works Department
contemplates this joint service. We have contemplated that. We have had discussions.
We believe based upon what the West Ada School District's communicated that there
probably is the ability to have some shared sewer access and with that I would stand for
any questions you have.
Perreault: Commissioners, any questions? Thank you very much.
Wardle: Thank you.
Johnson: Next you have Mark Freeman.
Perreault: Please speak into the microphone.
Freeman: Sorry. My name is Mark Freeman. I am Council for the West Ada School
District. My address is 3103 South Westbury Way in Eagle. I signed up because I may
be -- I'm part of the school district's team and I may need to respond during the rebuttal.
Perreault: Okay.
Freeman: And so I don't have any further testimony at this point.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you very much.
Johnson: Next was Troy Crookston, who indicated he did not wish to testify. And,
then, Eric Thies.
Thies: Good evening. My name is Eric Thies. My address is 2064 East Meadowwood
Drive in Meridian, Idaho. I'm also the president of the West Ada Education Association.
We work ed very hard and very closely with the district in order to get this bond through
in order to provide this school for our students and -- and we need this school for our
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students and I think -- I can echo everything that everybody said tonight about the need
and the overcrowding and the importance of infrastructure, but I also want to put out
there that the community has spoken very loudly that they need and want a school in
this area. The land areas that are available south of the interstate simply won't serve
the communities that are growing and being annexed and being developed in the
northwest portion of Meridian and we need a school in that area. I have also taught at
Rocky Mountain for ten years and I have seen them go from -- from undercrowded the
first year they were open, because there was just freshman and sophomores there, to
needing more and more portables in order to teach students in and that's -- that's not a
great way to teach. It's not a great way to learn. It's not a great thing to provide our
students. What our students deserve is schools. And this location -- this part of town is
-- is the part where they need it. The community spoke very loudly by passing this bond
that they want the school. We need to allow them to have it and to postpone it a year,
so that we can find a better location, which may or may not be available is -- is not good
for the -- the students that we have. That's -- that's about all I got, without repeating
what other people have already said. Any questions?
Perreault: Thank you very much.
Johnson: There were no additional sign-ins.
Perreault; Okay. Is there anybody else here that would like to come up and testify?
Okay. Come forward. Please state your name and address for the record.
Baum: I'm -- I'm Gwen Baum. Can you hear me okay?
Perreault: Speak into the microphone very loudly.
Baum: Okay. I'm Gwen Baum. We have the 80 across the street from the proposed
school site and I didn't know that --
Perreault: What's your address, ma'am?
Baum: My address is 4343 Ustick.
Perreault: Thank you.
Baum: We -- I didn't know the -- that our land was in Ada county back in 1892, but I do
know it was in Ada county in the late '80s and in the '90s and I don't know why we have
been jerked back and forth, but I sure would like to see us back in Ada county, because
it is hard to get service there like from the fire department, the police department and
when there is a wreck on the road it's like which side of the road is the wreck on and
what have you and I have to give all the information and, then, I finally have to say the
person is injured, can you come out anyway -- and the last wreck was on the Canyon
county side and the body ended up on the Ada county side and the wreck before that it
was a truck in Canyon county and the car came from the Ada county's dairy. So
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anyway. But beside the point, we love the idea. We would like to be a part of it. We
never knew anything about it, because we are in Canyon county, so we never knew
anything about it until we read it in the paper that that bond was passed and neither do
we know anything about a new project just within a half mile of us that Canyon county is
putting in for building homes and we don't hear anything from Canyon county, we don't
hear anything from Ada county, because we are kind of a stepchild 80 acres. So, I
would like everybody to consider us to be absorbed back into Ada county. Thank you.
Perreault: Thanks. Okay. Please come forward.
Hunter: Yes. Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Jim Hunter with Boise
Hunter Homes and our address is 729 South Ridgeway, Eagle, Idaho. We own the
piece, obviously, that's adjacent to the school district and being bisected by the north-
south extension of 16 -- the future of 16 and so we just wanted to -- in all the projects
we have in the City of Meridian we are always requested and required to extend roads
to the neighboring properties. We did it at Sky Mesa. Whether they are competitors or
not we extend the roads to them and build them and improve them. It's a policy that --
that ACHD has adopted and required over the years and we are just asking for
reciprocity. In fact, we thought we went over by suggesting us and the neighbor pay for
20 percent of it. We will end up with a fraction of our original property. It will only be 15
acres. It will be isolated by Highway 16, sandwiched between them and the school, and
in this initial layouts there just wasn't any consideration of that given it all. So, we like
schools, we support schools, and we know we generate kids, so -- but we just want it to
be done properly and get the same treatment that we are requested to give to others.
That's my testimony. Thank you.
Perreault: Thank you.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair, I actually have a question. Was there -- West Ada had -- on
the south side of their parcel, future residential development along Ustick.
Hunter: Uh-huh.
Cassinelli: Did you ever talk with them about any kind of a -- of a land swap, that part of
your parcel, so that they could get another access point in?
Hunger: Yes, sir, we did. We suggested we would consider a land swap. They said
they are not interested and we suggested that they could build their elementary school
literally on our project and they said they weren't interested. So, we got a flat out
rejection of every proposal and no counterproposals.
Cassinelli: Thank you.
Hunter: Any other questions? Thank you.
Perreault: Okay. If there is no other -- oh. Okay. Come forward, please.
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Moore: Hi. My name is Paul Moore. I live in 3864 North Annata Avenue. It's in Bellano
Creek Subdivision. So, I'm just here as a parent. I'm kind of underdressed. I'm not
really dressed to stand in front of a government body, but I just wanted to register as an
-- as a concerned parent, as a desire and an interest in getting the school in place.
That's -- my -- my children are currently at Sawtooth Middle School and Hunter
Elementary and they're both fairly crowded schools and I actually grew up here in
Meridian. I -- that's kind of a rarity nowadays, but I was one that benefited from some of
the -- possibly some of this Swiss cheese type development and I would just register my
personal thoughts that -- that it's worth it, that we are going to grow into that direction
eventually and that's it.
Perreault: Anyone else?
Vuittonet: Hello. My name is Mike Vuittonet. I am actually a West Ada School Board
trustee, but I'm speaking as a citizen for, you know, my concerns over this annexation
process. I would just like to let you know that --
Perreault: Could you, please, state your address.
Vuittonet: 2235 Southeast 5th Way. As far as the Swiss cheese goes, I have been an
appraiser for the last 30 years and I believe that Swiss cheese growth happened around
the racetrack at one point in time. We are -- we are in a huge growth pattern here and
we are -- it's -- it's going to escalate with Ten Mile and 16 and so the reason for picking
that spot was -- there was a couple of reasons. One of them, it was the best spot to
serve north and south. The other one was that we are responsible for taxpayer money.
We have to find the best possible prices for land and we happen to come across this
particular piece of property, which actually fit our criteria, actually fit our needs, we had
to spend our taxpayer money wisely. It was a very, very good buy, as it would serve an
elementary school and a high school or whatever we needed. So, I would just like to
say that I think the process that we are talking about here -- we probably will be back in
a year or two or three and we will be getting annexed. So, I just want you to think about
that. Our future is growing quickly, so we are -- we are expanding, we are -- our
schools are overcrowded. We will repeat the process in two or three years anyway. I
believe we eventually will grow all the way to that line and -- and if we look forward from
here, we will look back and say this was the best possible scenario for our students, our
kids and our community, because it's in the right place. Although right now it doesn't
seem to be, I would just say to you that within two to three, five years it is and will be.
So, hope that you can consider that so we don't have to come back and be delayed. If
the delay is done -- a small thing. It's a very, very big, big issue for us. I have -- I have
been a trustee for 18 years and I have never had to come to testify. So, this is
important. Needless to say, I'm concerned -- I rather would use the word kind of
freaking out, because we are -- we are in a very, very difficult situation right now and we
need all the support and collaboration we can get from our public entities and we hope
that you will look just a few years down the road and say, we are going to do this
anyway, it's the right place, we need to let them build and not hold them up. Thank you.
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Perreault: Thank you. Okay. If no one else wishes to testify, would the applicant,
please, come forward.
Pogue: Madam Chair, prior to the applicant coming up would you like to offer the
opportunity to the representatives from the Fire Department or Police Department to
present their input?
Perreault: Yes, please. Would either of you like to come forward or both of you?
Colaianni: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, Scott Colaianni, with the
Meridian Police Department. Before I provide any comments, I just want to provide
some context. I have worked for the Meridian Police Department since 1996. Nobody's
more in touch with how the city has grown and the challenges we face all the time
because of growth, especially in the schools. Meridian Police Department has a
tremendous relationship with the West Ada School District. I have working relationships
with many people in the West Ada School District, good working relationships, and this
is tough for me, because I, too, vote for more schools. I don't get to pick the locations of
the schools. I don't get to do any of that. My role is to simply give you information that
will allow you to take that information and do what you want with it, however you make
that decision. My role is I have an obligation to look at it from a public safety
perspective. That's it. I don't look at dollars. I don't look at locations. We put kids first
too and I have an obligation to all the parents in the school district that when we build
something or we do something that we can ensure that we can respond and protect our
families and our children. That's what I look at. In this particular application the biggest
issue I have is there is only one point of access, ingress and egress for us. It creates a
problem for us, because if something happens at that point it creates a choke point for
us and we can no longer get people out or resources in efficiently and effectively in a
timely manner. That's all I look at. We have to have another public access into that
location that will allow us a secondary access. It can't be down a canal bank, because if
we are getting kids out, it's not going to work it has to be a roadway. I have to have
that, the ingress, the choke point -- what we have learned from the other high schools in
the city -- and they all have different points of access. I'm sure you're familiar with the
other high schools and coming in and out of those parking lots. The lessons we have
learned is is kids cannot get out of the school quick enough before, during, after
sporting events, lunches, you name it. They tend to park off site. They tend to park in
neighborhoods and as neighborhoods develop around this they get pushed into the
neighborhoods, which causes parking problems, which causes headaches for the police
department that we have to mitigate and sign and work with ACHD. So, there is a lot of
cascading effects. If we can't get people in and out of the site quickly, efficiently, they
get impatient -- they are kids. I get it. Sporting events adds more trips at night. All
these things compound and, you know, unlike fire that will talk shortly, they have
International Fire Code for everything. Furniture. Walls. Fixtures. Right? We don't
have kids dying in fires. We have kids dying in school violence and we have to be sure
that we are doing everything we can to protect that and what we are needing and asking
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is that -- and I'm giving you this information is that we need two points of access into this
school, not just one. That's my biggest hang up. I will stand for questions,
Perreault: Commissioners?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Can you go to the overall site map? So, if -- if they actually extended that
street to the north where they just have the roundabout out to Ustick, that would satisfy
your concerns; is that not -- or not Ustick.
Colaianni: McMillan?
Yearsley: What's that?
Colaianni: McMillan?
Yearsley: Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, we would at least have the -- and you would be
comfortable accepting this application?
Colaianni: Yes.
Yearsley: Okay.
Colaianni: Thank you.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commission Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: There was a -- I think there was also a comment about response times.
Was that -- or was that -- that's more of a fire or --
Colaianni: No. There is -- there is -- this isn't in our scope of area that we respond to
now, so it's a challenge to get up in front of you and say this is what our response time
is. Certainly with a school resource officer assigned to that school that mitigates a lot of
the problems that occur at the school and we have somebody there right on site that
can deal with that and we are not bringing resources in unless we have to. It's right
there on site. What I talk about in response times -- anything outside of the school that
happens in the area that we are responsible from -- for, what those response times look
like, such as when the SRO is not there, we have an accident close to the school,
because of a sporting event, people are coming out, we have to bring resources in to
address that. That takes a little bit longer just given the proximity. We can service the
school from that aspect. We can get there. We can put an SRO there. Those things
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will work for us. The Swiss cheese -- I know that's been brought up a lot. It's just,
again, to point out that once you leave the frontage property it turns into unincorporated
Ada county, so it becomes slicing the pie. Well, we are 600 feet from this intersection
and that's the city. We are 200 feet north. That becomes in the county. We need to
call the county. We can't really do anything. It becomes awkward in terms of
government resources being dispatched to handle a situation. It's something that we
deal with now, it's just more of it.
Cassinelli: Thank you.
Perreault: Thank you, Mr. Colaianni? Is that how you pronounce your name?
Colaianni: Colaianni.
Perreault: Would the representative from Meridian Fire Department like to come
forward?
Bongiorno: Madam Chair and Commissioners, my name is Deputy Chief Joe
Bongiorno, the deputy chief of prevention for the Meridian Fire Department. As
Lieutenant Colaianni explained, our biggest hang up is there is only one point into this
property. I like to use the jet airplane scenario. If a jet airplane crashes right at that
intersection other than the proposed dirt -- you know, a secondary access, we have no
way to get in there. So, if we have a crash at that intersection and somebody in the
high school is having a heart attack, we are stuck. We have no way into that property.
We had two pre-planning meetings with the developer and we explained both times we
need that north-south connection completed all the way out to McMillan. If that is done,
that will solve the majority of -- of what our concerns are. Mr. Adams also mentioned
the response times. So, the response times I did my own little Google Map thing and I
came up with seven minutes from Station 2. The problem with Station 2 is the reliability
of that fire station is only at 80 percent. So, that means that whenever there is a call at
that fire station, only 80 percent of the time are they available to respond to an incident.
So, that means that another fire station is going to have to come, most likely Station 5,
which is further away, which now lengthens that response time to get to the school and
I also mentioned in my report that Ada County EMS is also going to have an extended
response time as well. Medic 36 is one of the busiest ambulances in the city. So, we
have two problems. So, it's just going to take so much more time to get there. So, as
Lieutenant Colaianni explained, we need that secondary access point. When Mountain
View High School -- High School opened they had one point in. One way in, one way
out, and I don't know if any of you remember when that opened, Overland -- Overland
Road was a mess and even with -- when they added Puffin, it's still a mess. So, two
points is -- is sometimes not enough either. So, again, I think Lieutenant Colaianni -- he
covered all of our -- our goal is safety. I mean that's our -- that's our thing. Sonya
covered that. Our main concern is safety. We are not against the project. The project
is great. The high school is awesome. We just need better access to it. And as -- the
way it's designed we don't feel it's safe for our students.
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Perreault: Commissioners, do you have any questions?
Cassinelli: Madam Chair, question. If there was a -- in lieu of going all the way to the
north to McMillan, if there was another access point on the east side of the property, so
you would have, essentially, two coming in off of Ustick, would that --
Bongiorno: So, the problem with that is in the fire code -- I -- I got the magic book. In
my -- in my magic book it states that access points have to be half the diagonal of the
entire property. So, if they put two access points on Ustick it would be too close
together.
Cassinelli: Even in an emergency situation?
Bongiorno: Even in an emergency situation. Any other questions?
Perreault: Any other questions?
Yearsley: They could actually extend the road on the north side out to McDermott;
correct? And that would serve your purpose?
Bongiorno: Yes.
Yearsley: At least in -- at least in the interim until State Highway 16 gets built and, then,
they would have to provide another secondary access.
Bongiorno: Yeah. Sonya had mentioned the development to the north that was denied.
We -- we have met with them. They are in the process of working to resubmit that
property. I don't know if the school district has talked with them or not, but on their plan
they show that same collector. So, we just need to get forces together and get the
whole road completed and, then, that would solve a lot of problems.
Perreault: Thank you very much. Appreciate you being here. Okay. So, at this time
would the applicant like to come back forward again?
Adams: Thank you. This is Matthew Adams. Do you need my address again? 462
East Shore Drive, Suite 100, Eagle, Idaho.
Perreault: Thank you.
Adams: So, a lot of things came up. To address them all I need to ask Mr. Freeman to
cover a couple of those items. You know, when we do these projects it's a team, so I --
I cannot fully address all of them.
Perreault: Mr. Freeman.
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Freeman: Thank you, Madam Commissioner, Members of the Commission. As I
mentioned, I'm -- I'm Mark Freeman, I'm the attorney for the Joint -- West Ada School
District. I really want to address in rebuttal the comments of -- of Mr. Wardle and Mr.
Hunter on this State Highway 16 need for the south road on the -- on the property.
There was a question by the Commissioner about a land swap and that was offered. I
guess it doesn't surprise me -- I'm not a developer, but it doesn't surprise me that -- that
with the effect of Highway 16 that someone who owned property there would rather
have -- wouldn't rather have frontage on -- on Ustick, that -- because I would assume --
again, I'm not a developer, that it's much more valuable. But the school district looked
at that and moving their -- re-adjusting their elementary site or adjusting -- making the
changes to the structure of the school site as a whole didn't work with the -- with the
inclusion of the Woodside parcel and then -- and the issue of the -- the road that they
are requesting the school district to build or assume major responsibility for, we
understand their concerns about Highway 16. Anybody who owns a piece of property
that was split in half by a potential future highway would -- would have concerns about
that and the thing that we want to stress on the Commission is it's not -- it hasn't
happened yet. It's planned to happen. It's not funded. It's on a map, but it hasn't
occurred and there are procedures in place with the ITD to compensate people whose
properties are affected by such takings and that may include roads being built at ITD's
expensive along certain portions of the property and it also can include cash
compensation to purchase property that may be affected. This is not the obligation of
the West Ada School District. Understand and you do that these are public funds for --
raised for education purposes. If they are not used at this site they are going to be used
for some other education purpose and we just feel it is -- it is flat out wrong for the -- the
-- the Commission or the city to require -- the Council to require the school district to pay
any cost for that road. There was a mention by Mr. Hunter that we are mistaken,
because we can't get access off of Ustick Road for the surplus parcel we have there.
We never proposed -- we -- we are not intending to ever get access to that off of Ustick
Road. It fronts Ustick Road, but we are smart enough to know that we can't get access
there. We have access if the collector road is built as our collector, it's right against that
property. We don't need a road on the north side. Excuse me. The north-south
collector. So, I just want to make those points and appreciate the question.
Adams: Thank you. This is Matthew. I'm speaking again. So, first of all, thank you for
your time, Commissioners. We do request a decision tonight, an up or down, a denial
or -- a recommendation for denial or approval to Council, because we do feel that time
is of the essence and a continuation would be to the detriment of all parties involved,
including the city. To address our neighbor to the south, if it were up to us we would
take them and we are on their side, we would take them into Meridian city as well.
Woodside Development, they are impacted by Highway 16. There is no question. ITD
has a plan and an obligation to restore disrupted parcels with access. Our project
complies with the ACHD master street map. We have offered an easement. We are
not agreeable to constructing a road that solely benefits that developer. West Ada
School District, as Mr. Freeman said, we will take access from the collector. We have
no concerns about not having access from Ustick. To address the Police Department
comments. Thank you for your comments. We agree, West Ada and the Meridian
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Police Department have an excellent relationship. Have worked collaboratively on
many, many projects and continue to do so and we have done so on this building and
we appreciate that. We do feel like we are providing a secondary access. We have a
roadway, 20 foot wide, constructed to carry the weight of a fire truck that goes from our -
- the east end of our east-west roadway out to McDermott and it's not uncommon to
have access points like that maybe at the end of a cul-de-sac that goes into a
neighboring development, but we have a roadway and it is a second point of access.
So, possibly we are just down to the detail of how wide is it or, you know, how much
gravel do you put on the ground, that kind of thing. So, we do have that second access.
The parking lot -- biggest parking lot of any high school that West Ada has ever built,
over 1,200 parking stalls, and I would say, again, schools are safe. Three percent of all
child fatalities occur in schools, 97 percent of child fatalities occur outside of schools.
We agree with safety. That's why West Ada takes it so seriously and that's why they
work so closely with the police department and fire and that's why these schools are so
safe. We have a roadway to McDermott. We think we are down to the detail of how its
constructed. Our neighbor to the north, Trilogy, we have had many, many meetings
with them, seven or eight meetings. They want to build the road to McMillan. They are
highly in favor of us being annexed. It gives them a path to annexation and a stronger
argument and allows them to construct that roadway. It -- it would be contradictory to
the -- the way the staff report was presented tonight. I would also say in the realm of
safety, an overcrowded school creates an unsafe environment as well. So, it's a really
tough -- everybody's talked about how tough this was. Sonya talked about how tough it
was and it was. We have talked about tough this is. The police and fire have talked
about how tough it is. We have overcrowded facilities that don't work when they are
overcrowded. We have a plan for an excellent facility to relieve that and there is a
couple minor details that we need to address to make it work. I would -- again, I'm
repeating myself, but I would say that we do -- for fire as well -- have the second access
point out to McDermott. We -- we are working diligently to make sure we do provide
that second route. We agree if there is something catastrophic that happens at that one
intersection, absolutely, access would be affected and the odds of that happening don't
matter. If it happens once, you have that problem, that's why we are constructing nearly
a half mile of roadway -- gravel roadway out to McDermott and that is currently in the
plan. And with that -- and, again, I want to reiterate we really would like a decision
tonight. But with that I will answer any questions you might have.
Perreault: Thank you. I do have a question. Do you have the option of widening that
road and paving it out to McDermott?
Adams: I think we are -- we are open to constructing the road in a manner that is --
meets the requirements of the fire department and the police department. We would --
of course that goes across another property --
Perreault: Uh-huh.
Adams: -- we have an agreement with them. They are agreeable to an easement in
that location and a roadway being there. We would need to work with them and include
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them in those discussions, but I would not rule that out. I think that would be something
we would definitely be interested in, because we have control over that route and it
gives us the ability to work on that.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: As related to that, over and over time I heard both the police and fire said
they want public access, not a fire access. I take my daughter to Mountain View every
day. It is a nightmare to get in and out of there. Last year they had an accident at that
intersection at Overland and going into the school. Kids for three and four hours -- or,
well, not that -- they were -- they were an hour late because of the backups
associated with that. Schools are safe. Kids are not. That's why my -- my insurance is
so high for my child, because they are not safe. Accidents will happen at that
intersection frequently would be my guess. How do we not provide safety for those kids
as a second way out?
Adams: Thank you for the question. I understand. I agree with where you're coming
from. When we look at our planning, we are not willing to push the unsafe -- the unsafe
conditions, the rapid growth, the overcrowding onto the other schools based on
concerns that we think we have addressed. We -- we feel confident we have a second
access point for the fire department. We meet ACHD's master street map. We have
demonstrated through an extensive traffic study that our -- our roadway system works at
an acceptable level of service. We -- in the design world we cannot -- we design to
standards. We design to codes. And, then, we take all of our experience and all the
input we received from the owner and the agencies and we try to go above and beyond
those codes. We are unable, unfortunately, to design for every situation that may occur
ever, because of budgets, timelines, quality -- are all concerns. So, we do meet all the
codes. We have good engineering standards and science that show that this
intersection will function at an acceptable level of service and we have taken all of our
experience to improve the site plan and make it work even better than a Mountain View
or a Rocky. So, I understand what you're saying. My kids went to Rocky and I picked
my daughter up one time and I said never again, because you just can't get in and out.
She graduated and they added a hundred more students. I won't even drive down
Linder anymore, because I don't want to go anywhere near it and that will continue to
worsen.
Perreault: Commissioners, anymore questions?
Holland: Yeah. Madam Chair, one more follow-up question.
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: So, a lot of the comments tonight where that if that road would be extended all
the way up to McMillan there would be a lot less concerns. I know you don't want to get
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to the point where you have a continuance. If there was an option to have a
continuance to figure out what to do to get that road to go through, would that be an
option for you to consider or would you prefer -- I'm trying to figure out what we can do
here, because, obviously, we know there is need for education, we know there is a need
for a new school here in the Meridian -- Meridian area we have got some overcrowding
issues, we are all aware of that, but just trying to figure out how we can help with this
access issue.
Adams: Great question, Commissioner Holland. Thank you. We do not want a
continuance. If this was the Price Is Right I could look at my team and they would yell
higher or lower; right? I think we are okay with conditions that say we have to have a
second point of access and we feel like -- you know, we are probably a month from a
council meeting and we -- you know, having a recommendation of approval with a
condition that a second point of access meet Fire and Police Department requirements
and needs, could be accomplished and could be presented at that Council meeting,
because we have already -- we already have a road to McDermott, we have already
talked to Trilogy half a dozen times about a road to the north. Those -- those
discussions have taken place and those kind of agreements could be put in place pretty
quickly. I cannot speak to the budgets on whether or not we can afford building another
half mile of public roadway, but I know we can -- we can look at that for sure. I don't
know that a continuance and, then, coming back to this group -- well, that's up to you.
That's up to you. If this group needs to see the exact solution before you can
recommend approval, that would be up to you. Knowing that you have conditioned it,
recommended it with a condition that that has to occur, might be satisfying to you. I -- I
don't know. Great question.
Perreault: Thank you. Anymore questions? Thank you very much.
Adams: Thank you.
Perreault: Okay. At this time can I get a motion to close the public hearing for Item No.
H-2018-0075?
Holland: So moved.
Cassinelli: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Perreault: Commissioners, please, share your thoughts.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
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Perreault Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: I have a couple questions for staff if I can before comments. Access. It
sounds like one of the biggest hurdles was some -- were the access points. I mean,
obviously, we have the Swiss -- the Swiss cheese effect and I can -- I could -- could talk
to that, but for right now the -- the access points. Primarily that first one with -- with
Boise Hunter Homes, the Woodside parcel, the proposed -- is that -- is that just a
proposed stub street to go through -- Sonya, can you elaborate on that?
Allen: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I'm not exactly sure what you're
asking.
Cassinelli: That one road -- the one that's up front that they -- that Boise Hunter Homes
wants them to pay 80 percent. West Ada doesn't feel that -- that -- that they should
have to pay for that. It's that -- that one access point. Can you -- do you know the one
I'm referring to?
Allen: Madam Chair and Commissioner Cassinelli, are you referring to the southern
east-west --
Cassinelli: Correct.
Allen: -- driveway here?
Cassinelli: Correct.
Allen: So, if Commission decides to -- or would like to consider recommending approval
of this project, staff has prepared draft conditions of approval. If you decide to go down
that route, I would suggest that you have a recess, review those conditions of approval,
the applicant review those conditions of approval before making a recommendation
tonight. Staff has included as a condition of approval, if you choose to go that route that
the applicant construct a local street east-west to the Hunter Homes property.
Cassinelli: And that's just for an additional access point into that property?
Allen: Yes. Our city code requires that access be provided to adjacent properties when
access via a local street is not available. Their property in this case, the Hunter Homes
property only has access to an arterial street.
Cassinelli: Okay. Can you also -- I don't -- were you -- Sonya, who -- who is working on
the -- the Trilogy project?
Allen: I was also the planner on that.
Cassinelli: Okay.
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Allen: The application that I referred to earlier came through a couple years ago.
Trilogy is currently working on a development plan for that land also.
Cassinelli: What's the -- if that access road -- if that collector, then, the north-south,
between Ustick and McMillan, what would be the potential timeline of -- of that going all
the way through?
Allen: Commissioner Cassinelli, that -- that's impossible to answer, because there is not
a development application before the city right now for that. I would note, though, that
that property is only this area right here where my pointer is. It's only the area north of
this creek right here to McMillan, so there would be a gap in this area.
Cassinelli: Okay. So, the timeline -- I mean that could be -- we are talking years and
years out possibly.
Allen: It would depend on if the Commission and Council would approve that
application. Last time it was before the Council they denied it because they did not
want to expand the city passed to the west of McDermott Road.
Cassinelli: So, we cannot count on that being extended --
Allen: No.
Cassinelli: -- at this point? Okay.
Bongiorno: Madam Chair and Commissioners, if I may. Sonya, when we met with that
developer he did include that next section of land. So, they are -- they are looking at
developing that whole chunk.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Perreault: Okay. Commissioners, any other thoughts?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I can't go against what the -- what Police and Fire have said. We need a
secondary public access, not a secondary fire access. Like I said, I have seen what
happens at Mountain View and I don't want to have those same mistakes happen here.
Even the applicant did say he doesn't like to drive by Rocky Mountain High School or
drop his kids off and that, actually, has better access than this. So, how can I
recommend approval when the applicant actually stated that he doesn't like going to
Rocky Mountain High School. I have not seen the -- the traffic report, but I'm still
hesitant to believe that this meets an acceptable level of service. I don't know if they
are assuming that more kids are bused than actually will happen. Just what I see at
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Mountain View and other high schools, traffic is horrendous trying to get in and out of
the schools. Kids don't drive safely. I see them cut through subdivisions -- or through
commercial properties trying to get one second sooner to school and I think it's just
going to be, you know, worsened with just one access on a local rural street like this
and not actually having an actual, you know, more wider street system than it is at
Ustick. So, I understand why they bought this property, but if you look at the future
conditions of this, this area is more than likely going to be commercial. I mean given the
access off the interstate or the future interstate that's coming through here, even
Nampa's future land use map shows their section as commercial. So, we are putting a
high school in the middle of a commercial area, which is not -- it's been done before, but
is that the appropriate location for a high school, you know, just because it was cheaper.
I don't know. And being that far out from everything I just -- I struggle to -- to want to
approve this.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I will attempt to go next. I agree with a lot of the comments that you have
made as well. The single access for me is the biggest sticking point, because I want to
make sure their kids can get in and out of school safely and the applicant express this
specific school will have more parking than any other, which means there is more cars
and more traffic coming in and out of it than any other. I agree with you, I drive by
Mountain View all the time, I grew up in this area, I know the school district, I know that
they have got an immense need for more schools. I don't think anyone's arguing that
we -- we don't need more schools in this project. I think that's -- that's pretty evident.
We all want to see our kids have opportunities to get a good education. With the
Highway 16 expansion, too, you know, I worry about the proposed access road that
could connect over to McDermott, because it will be a moot point once that Highway 16
project continues through. Ultimately it really needs to be that that road would be
extended up to McMillan to make a full access loop in there. That would make me feel
more comfortable with moving this application forward if that was a condition that we
would put in there. You know, as far as the Swiss cheese development goes, I -- I
agree, it's -- you don't want to create the sprawl and you -- typically around high schools
you will get more residential development, you will get more commercial development.
It will spur growth in that area that's for sure. We can't pick up this application and
move it to a different spot, but I think for me the -- the biggest sticking point would be
that we would have to have a condition that would extend that residential collector all
the way through to McMillan for me to consider approval.
Wilson: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: So, it sounds like there is an openness to at least looking at the recommended
-- or what those conditions will want to do, because I want to say yes to this project
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and, obviously, as we have kind of gone through the arguments I think we have -- we
have gone to this sticking point of public access. I mean I think everything else -- I think
usually when we get these kinds of projects we are impacting the schools in a negative
way and this is an opportunity to approve, you know, a project that -- that -- that actually
alleviates that -- that challenge we are having in our community. I agree with one of the
trustees that this isn't just another developer, I mean these are stewards of the
taxpayers money, so that's, obviously, been a part of my consideration, so I want to say
yes to this and it sounds like we would be open to looking at what those conditions --
what those proposed conditions would look like in order to move this forward.
Perreault; Sonya, how does that process work for us?
Allen: Madam Chair, do you mean if you would like to review the conditions of
approval?
Perreault: Correct.
Allen: Then I would recommend having a recess.
Perreault: Okay. Is that something that the Commissioners need to agree on, to take
that recess, or do we just call the recess?
Pogue: I think it -- it seems like you're in agreement.
Perreault: So, we will go ahead and call a ten minute recess. Is that sufficient time to
review? It is?
Allen: I believe so.
Perreault: Okay. I will call a ten minute recess.
(Recess: 7:48 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.)
Perreault: Okay. We are actually going to open this for -- for a public hearing again
very quickly. So, at this time we will open the public hearing for Owyhee High School,
H-2018-0075, by W est Ada School District for the purpose of including these draft
conditions of approval that were just provided by the staff and that's the sole purpose
that we are reopening this. So, with that said, can I get a motion to, then, again, close
the public hearing H-2018-0075?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Sorry. Madam Chair, do we not have to have a -- don't we typically do a
motion to open the public hearing after we have already closed it
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Pogue: It was closed.
Yearsley: Well, we closed it, but don't you have to have a motion to reopen it?
Perreault: I thought we would need to make a motion or do we just leave it --
Pogue: Oh, yes. Oh, I thought -- I thought you did say a motion.
Perreault: Okay. Okay. No. Thank you, Steve. So --
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Yes.
Holland: Madam Chair, I would requests that we make a motion to reopen Item 4-E,
Owyhee High School, H-2018-0075, for the purpose of acknowledging the draft
conditions of approval presented by staff.
Wilson: Second.
Perreault: Okay. It has been moved and seconded to reopen the public hearing for the
purpose of acknowledging the draft conditions of approval. All those in favor say aye.
None opposed. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Perreault: Now I will take a motion to close.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Yearsley: Do we not have to provide -- at least let the applicant provide public comment
to these -- these conditions or do we need to explain the intent of opening the public
hearing to the applicant?
Cassinelli: Well -- and there might be questions here, too, on some of these.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Pogue: The concern was the lack of public notice with regard to these conditions, so by
allowing staff and the applicant to speak to them, if you were so inclined, the public here
could as well, but it would leave others who didn't have the full packet available to them
to speak to.
Yearsley: Thank you.
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Perreault: So, then, now I will request a motion to close the public hearing.
Holland: Madam Chair? I will request to make a motion to close the public hearing for
Owyhee High School, H-2018-0075.
Wilson: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for Owyhee
High School, H-2018-0075. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: A couple of things that -- that -- that have stood out to me and -- and I will
say that I recognize full well that all the schools are overcrowded and there is a -- there
is an immediate need yesterday for -- for more schools. Just not high schools, but
everything. And it's -- you know, it's -- it's part of the downside to the growth that we are
seeing in this area. I'm not wild about the Swiss cheese effect that -- that's been
discussed, but, you know, to -- to -- to get schools, I'm -- you know, it -- and I don't think
it's smart, because you never know where -- I mean you're -- you never know where the
growth is going to go. It's your -- you're doing a lot of guesswork and it -- you know,
things could -- could backfire. I don't think it would -- would happen necessarily in this --
in this scenario, because there are -- there is residential going in nearby, but the biggest
-- a couple of the issues I have -- one of the comments from -- from the -- from the team
from West Ada was they weren't willing to pay for that -- the access road into the Boise
Hunter Homes property and that's -- that's -- that has -- that roadway has to go in and,
obviously, I think that's their responsibility. They have got to stub that in and make that
accessible. We had a -- another applicant -- it was a school that came in two months
ago, I believe it was back in June, and they had to -- to do these conditions. They had
to pay for it on -- on a much -- you know, it was -- it was a smaller scale and they had to
build a collector road, you know, so -- so -- and they are a public entity. They were a
public entity as well and so they had to do it. So, to have -- to have West Ada come in
and say we are not willing to do it, honestly, I will say it, I think it's kind of arrogant and it
-- they have to do it. It's -- it's -- it's code and they have to do it. Something else -- and I
don't know if we can really get into some of the details on the draft conditions of
approval, but something that stands out to me there is -- is it okay to address that?
Okay. Is there is a fire station, there is a condition there on a development agreement
number D, item D for a fire station that needs to be located and secured. I talked with
Sonya when we were at recess. It doesn't need to be built, but secured and we are not
even -- you know, before a C of O can be issued on that. You know, we are not even
there on that. I'm not wild about the Swiss cheese effect. I would be willing to look
passed it, because, yes, everything is overcrowded, it's growing, it's needed, but I am --
I am very concerned about the access. It's not there yet. I don't -- until we can get it --
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and, then, that other road, I think there is -- I think this site can still be -- can still be
done. I think -- I just think they have to keep -- I think they have to -- have to roll up their
sleeves and keep working on it.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I think with where we are at in the process our hands are a little bit tied that we
have got this draft conditions of approval and I think if we were to recommend approval
tonight based on these draft conditions we haven't given ample enough time to -- to
really absorb and hear staff concerns and the applicant's testimony with those. I would
say -- I know that they are preferring to have a decision one way or another tonight, but
I would say at this point I would rather see it continued, so that we could get ample time
to get feedback on these draft conditions. Just a thought.
Yearsley: Madam Chair, I have a tendency to agree with that and we might be able to
add some additional conditions or that we would like to see, like the stub roads and,
then, also if we -- they do extend a road to the north that that actually be a signalized
intersection as well, you know, so I think -- I think continuance is -- is -- is an appropriate
decision. I know it's not what the applicant would like, but I do believe it is an
appropriate decision.
Perreault: Okay. So, with all of that said, would anyone like to make a motion?
Commissioner Wilson, do you have something to add?
Wilson: Well, I guess -- I don't know. I'm more inclined to deny, but I recognize that
continuing is probably, just in terms of the process, maybe the best way to get yes and
to kind of give us the best recommendation possible to City Council. I think if we can
actually review these, have public testimony and kind of flush out as we do and go
through this process, that's probably going to be the best way moving forward. So,
that's I think where I'm at, recognizing that denial might expedite the process and I don't
know where you're at, Bill.
Cassinelli: I think I'm -- I'm more inclined on the denial, because, then, I think it -- they
-- the applicant will have to -- they know what the issues are. Staff has -- staff has told
them. Police and Fire told them what the issues are. I think, then, they go back to the
drawing board and they figure out the solutions. I don't know that -- honestly, I think a
denial is quicker for them than a continuance and, again, a continuance is going to kick
the ball down the road and slow things down.
Wilson: If you make a motion --
Cassinelli: Okay.
Holland: Madam Chair?
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Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Can I -- just one more question of staff.
Perreault: Sure.
Holland: As far as process goes, if we were to issue a denial of this project, they would
have to go back to the drawing board and resubmit a new application with a different
site plan or it pretty much kills the project?
Allen: Chairman, Commissioner Holland, the Commission is a recommending body on
this application, so you're only making a recommendation to City Council. They are the
final decision making body. No. It will proceed forward with the existing plan.
Wilson: I mean -- Madam Chair? I mean the way I understand it, it takes -- it takes due
consideration of these draft proposals out of our hands. Hopefully puts it in the public
domain for discussion and for City Council. I mean that was the idea of opening up and
having these submitted. So, yeah, I mean ideally that -- I mean that's kind of what we
were trying to do there and, hopefully, it would work and, hopefully, the applicant could
address those considerations and gain approval from City Council. Hopefully.
Perreault: So --
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Sonya -- so, if we continue it they are coming back -- it will come back
before us before it goes to City Council or will it go to City Council?
Allen: Chairman, Commissioner Cassinelli, Commissioners, if you recommend --
Cassinelli: Continue.
Allen: -- continuance it will come back to you and I will need instructions on what you
would like to see when it -- you know, at the next hearing. If it's conditions of approval.
If it's the applicant needs to make changes to their plan. There needs to be clear
direction from you.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Pogue: So, Commissioners, I think my recommendation would be if you're considering
a continuance that you would reopen the hearing, you would allow staff to present these
conditions of approval, let the applicant respond, open it up for public that are here, if
they wanted to comment on it, so that you can get the input from the applicant and staff
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in order to give them what to be working on for the -- during the continuance; right? You
have got to give them guidance as to what to work with staff to bring back something
different. So, if you want to go that route, then, I say open it up and we are here, let's
have staff present it, you will hear their concerns, the applicant has had time to review it,
let them come in -- I mean if they say we are not interested, you know, in any of -- we
disagree with all these conditions, you might need to know that and, then, it may lead
you to a different decision than a continuance if you hear that conversation out. But I
wasn't thinking you were leaning in that direction, but that's the process I would
recommend.
Perreault: So, we would do that now, rather than at the -- and, then, just make the
decision --
Pogue: Right.
Perreault; -- at the next hearing.
Pogue: Or tonight, depending on what you hear.
Perreault: Okay.
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, just some clarification for you.
Keep in mind the applicant, you, staff -- we just gave you those draft conditions. No
one's had a time -- anytime to -- to digest those conditions this evening. In the normal
process it is prudent for the Commission to continue this out, give the applicant time to
provide a response to those conditions, give us time -- give them time to modify their
site plan if that's the direction you provide. I'm hesitant to open up the hearing, discuss
the conditions of approval when no one's had any time to -- to digest them and have an
-- and articulate a response to those DA provisions. So, I think at this point if you want
to move forward as recommended -- move forward with denial as preferred by the
applicant, you certainly have that discretion. If you do continue this out, I would
recommend that we continue it out for the purpose of discussing those DA provisions,
so that when we come back for another hearing we have a chance to get a response
from the applicant on those changes and you have a chance for staff to also work with
the applicant and talk with them through those changes and, then, we can have that
discussion at a later date, but that -- and the public would also have a chance to come
back and talk about those conditions as well, because you have left the public hearing
opened and you have continued it to a date certain. Now, what we don't know is how
much time the applicant needs to look at those conditions, digest them, work with staff
and, then, come back to this body. I will tell you that the 20th is getting to be very full --
a full agenda. I know time is of the essence, but the next hearing is the 20th. The one
after that is October 4th. So I will -- I will quit discussing the process and, then, just
stand for any other questions you may have about it.
Wilson: Madam Chair?
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Perreault: Commissioner Wilson.
Wilson: Just kind of a point perhaps for denial. I mean the question is can we provide
clear enough guidance. I mean does a continuance make sense? And that's the
question. I mean not only have they not been able to maybe digest it, but I -- I don't
think I have. So, I mean that would be kind of the question for the Commission, can we
provide clear guidance or based on what we have before us do we go forward with the
denial? Because I mean that -- that's what we have before us is -- is the staff report
and, obviously, our issue with that -- that second public access and I think in most cases
that would lead us to a denial -- a recommended denial.
Perreault: So, Commissioner Wilson, are you -- are you --
Wilson: Making an argument for denial.
Perreault: Yeah. Yeah. You're suggesting that maybe --
Wilson: I just don't know if we can make -- I just don't know -- can we -- I mean we --
are we throwing it to them. Are we -- I mean -- or what are we doing with that, I guess?
Perreault: So, are you perhaps saying that -- that you think they will review these and
they won't come back with a different -- with a different approach or -- is that what
you're --
Wilson: I mean potentially, I guess. I just -- I just question whether we can, again,
provide that clear guidance. I mean if we are just going to give them a piece of paper,
well, I guess that's fine, but -- I mean do we really -- are we confident that this is -- you
know, is this going to -- you know, this is going to be continued, they are going to come
back to us, they are going to accept this and we are not going to deny them anyway --
Perreault: Okay.
Wilson: -- for whatever reason.
Perreault: And for clarification, these were not included in the staff report, because staff
had recommended denial. So, this is the first time that they have been reviewed.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Sonya, have they seen -- have they seen these?
Allen: Chairman, Commissioners, Commissioner Cassinelli, the first time they saw
them was when you did.
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Cassinelli: Okay.
Allen: When -- when staff makes a recommendation of denial there aren't conditions of
approval associated with it. The only -- the only reason staff did this in this case was
because of the urgency of their application and needing to move it forward.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Do we want to -- do we want to open it up just to bring the applicant back up
and ask them if they would -- I mean what would suit their -- what's going to be quicker
for them I guess?
Yearsley: He's pretty much -- I think the applicant has pretty much stated they would
rather have a denial --
Cassinelli: Although they hadn't seen these yet, so I don't know --
Yearsley: I realized that, but I don't think that's going to matter, my personal opinion.
Cassinelli: Yeah.
Perreault; These are additional requirements they are going to have to follow beyond
what has already been requested so --
Wilson: If you're reading between the lines of my argument, I'm kind of going there.
Cassinelli: Well, I want to -- I want to help it along. I want to do what's going to be --
you know, despite my comments, I realize that it is critical that -- that it -- we need a
high school. It needs to be built, you know, so I don't want to delay it too long. So, I'm -
- I'm just -- I guess my -- my question here -- get some feedback -- is, you know,
ultimately what's going to be quickest, for them to continue to move the -- to -- to work
towards approval. Is it going to be denying it? And, then, it goes to City Council, then
they are going to -- and it's going to come back or is a continuance going to be the
faster way? Bill, what do you -- you're kind of shaking and nodding your head over
there.
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I had a discussion with the
applicant. I mean they -- they are adamant they have to be in front of the Council in
November. So, if we continue this out even to October 4th, we are pushing that. To me
I'm getting the impression they just want to get in front of Council as quickly as possible
and denial would do that and you would not get another bite at this application, unless
Council remanded it back to you to take it under further consideration. But that's
something that I can't predict what the Council will do on this application. But, again, if
you make a recommendation of denial this evening, staff prepares recommendations
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from this hearing and there are no conditions that move forward to City Council, it falls
in their lap to make a decision whether or not they are going to overturn your decision or
stay with your recommendation. So, just keep that in mind as well.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I guess that's what my -- my initial question meant was not that the project
dies after we see it, but it would die after City Council saw it. I would say my -- my
concern with recommending denial is that they will get to the same point that we are at
right here where they will say, well, what if we were to put some conditions in there and
approve it, then, they are going to have the same issue we have of looking at these
conditions without having the chance to really review them. If we could continue it and
figure out a way to at least hear what the applicant's concerns are with these conditions,
if they would be willing to move forward with what staff's recommendations are and we
can save them that time frame of having to go back and start over after the November
hearing, if they were in front of City Council, that's part of the reason I was leaning
towards continuing, just to see if we could help them get that further along.
Perreault: So, how does that work with City Council if we deny -- and how does it work
with these conditions? Does the staff report stay the same, that you recommend denial
and -- and City Council's not going to review these as part of the public hearing; is that
correct?
Allen: Madam Chair, Commissioners, the staff report stays the same. The Commission
is recommending denial. However, the conditions of approval that have been shared
with you tonight will be part of the public record.
Perreault: Okay.
Allen: So, Council will have a chance to review those and -- and I would recommend to
the applicant to provide a response to those, so that the Council has that at their next
meeting. If there is any deal breakers with the Commission, so to speak, or -- or I
should say things that you would definitely like to see, such as an extension of a public
street to McMillan Road, I would suggest including that in your reasons for denial, so
that Council knows what your thoughts are on those.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
recommend denial to the City Council of file number H-2018-0075 as presented in the
staff report for the hearing date of September 6th, 2018, for the following reasons: One,
for the patchwork of annexation that it can provide in the future. Two, they don't have a
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secondary access, particularly to McMillan with a signal and -- and -- and safety
concerns because of that due to Fire and Police.
Cassinelli: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to recommend denial of Application H-
2018-0075, Owyhee High School. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed?
Okay. Motion carries for denial.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Perreault: Now it's my understanding the staff has a presentation to make regarding
changes to the staff report.
(Recess: 8:22 p.m. to 8:27 p.m.)
Perreault: Okay, everybody, let's get back to our seats. Mr. Parsons, I hope you have
something entertaining for us.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. I just have a couple
housekeeping items to go over with you. So, the -- the first portion of my discussion
with you this evening is -- it ties nicely into some of the action you have taken on
recently with the school district, so staff has been working behind the scenes to find a
better way to communicate information to the Commission and to City Council, to not
only get more information, but clearer information so that you can make an informed
decision when these applications are before you. We have partnered with Fire, Police,
the school district to help get that information to you and so I have prepared a memo,
gave you a draft copy of the staff report so you can kind of understand where we are
coming from and what we hope to achieve and what we hope to incorporate in a revised
staff report, so that a lot of these questions will be answered for you as you deliberate
on these land use applications. So, as I mentioned to you, you can see this -- this new
staff report is a total reformat from what you have seen. It's a departure. We have
restructured the staff report trying to get the information at the beginning of the report,
earlier and often to you, so you don't have to read through pages and pages of analysis
from staff and so you will see that as far as the new project description, here we will
highlight some of those -- again, that high level -- what they have applied for, the
density, any special requests, any waivers from Council for access. And I think we may
also provide some -- a section in here that speaks to -- if there is any public benefit that
project is providing, say like an off-site improvement or a road extension outside of the
project boundary in order to help the community facilitate improvements ahead of the
development or ahead of concerns. So, what we have added here for you -- and it's
similar to what ACHD does in their staff reports, is we have a project summary -- again,
a lot of this information was already in the staff report that you receive now, we have
just condensed it into a table format and, then, if there is any details or any concerns
with any of these items we have referenced that page number, so that you can go to
that section of the staff report and read up on additional information that we provide to
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you in there. The -- one of the most critical tables that we have added is this community
matrix. So, this has added a level of complexity to the staff report. We have many
different agencies that have to comment on it. One being ITD. Again, these -- all of
these applications get transmitted to these agencies. It's nothing new. We incorporate
these comments or conditions of approval in the staff report. We are just letting --
informing you earlier and often in the staff report at the beginning, rather than the end,
and, then, referencing the pages if there is any concerns that those agencies have. I
want to highlight -- some of the areas that I do want to highlight for the Commission this
evening is -- I'm hoping it's in this version, but particularly for a project that ACHD is
taking action on. A lot of times -- or sometimes we may not have a staff report from
ACHD as a project comes forward to you or at the last minute a neighbor may complain
and that project now gets out of staff's hands at ACHD and has to go in front of their
commission for action. Well, that will be added data put into this staff report that you
know that, yes, the -- ACHD's commission's acted on this report and it was on this date
for it with staff level approval and that way you're more informed as to what action
ACHD staff is taking as well. Absolutely. Go ahead.
Perreault: My apologies. So, that being said, I want to understand why ACHD is not --
or why we don't request that they have a response in every single time prior to our
hearing. Can you help me understand that a little bit better?
Parsons: Sure. Commission, a lot of times -- and what we have to realize is that ACHD
doesn't just service Meridian, they service --
Perreault: Right.
Parsons: -- all of Treasure Valley, so there is multiple jurisdictions bombarding them
with applications and they have time constraints, they have staff constraints, just like all
of us do, and so they are doing their very best in order to get that information to us.
What we have discussed as staff is if we have a longer process -- or bigger project,
more complex project, let's push those out a little bit farther so we can buy that extra
time for ACHD staff and we have -- we have done a better job of that for you. So, I -- I
have noticed in the last couple months you haven't had too many delays with ACHD in
not getting their response. At least the goal is to have a draft staff report for you, so we
know where they are -- where they are going. And if we don't have the conditions, then,
we oftentimes will -- staff will oftentimes e-mail that planner from ACHD working on the
project and saying where are you lying on this issue, because staff is -- we are going to
recommend these changes as part of our review. Are you guys in support of that or
aren't you. So, again, we need longer lead times for that and particularly -- we can't
always predict when a project is going to get pulled off of their staff level approval and
go to their commission, but they do give us a heads up and if we know that we can
certainly insert that into the staff report and you as a body have an option to continue
that and wait for ACHD's comments to catch up or not.
Perreault: Okay.
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Parsons: Again, it -- it's a case-by-case basis that you have to look at the complexity of
the project and how much of an impact is it on the infrastructure. Is it something that we
need to get -- get input on -- from ACHD on. So, keep that in -- in mind when you're
deliberating on these projects as well.
Perreault: Thank you.
Parsons: So, you can see we have added quite a -- quite a few community matrix and it
goes to what the Police and Fire testified this evening where they talked about response
times, level of service and response times to those -- I mean there is a whole bunch of
information that's going to be thrown at you and as we get those conditions, one, they
will be still put in the staff report, but, again, if it's something we have highlighted in the
analysis, we will reference it with a page number and you will go right to that section.
Almost like, again, Owyhee High School is as a prime example of where we have -- that
was kind of the first staff report where we kind of implemented new conditions and that's
why they were gracious enough to come this evening and speak on what they had
recommended as part of the project. The next couple of sections I did want to point out
that we are going to add -- include more graphics for you. So, it's nothing new to the
Commission, but we will include a future land use map and aerial. The zoning map and,
then, I didn't know if Commission was aware of this, but we do -- typically when a
project comes in we do require CAD files, so that we can model that development. Our
GIS department, Public Works, inputs that information into our system, makes sure
everything it can be -- we can adequately provide water and sewer. But it's also a good
tool for the Commission to see what you have approved in nearby surrounding
properties and see how that relates to those adjacent developments that have been
approved. So, we have -- we have labeled this as a planned development map and,
again, here is a quick example of what -- where a project -- we could highlight it here
and, then, everything else around it you see what's tentative -- either preliminary platted
or final platted in the vicinity. So, you start getting that whole context of what's actually
occurring in that area as you're making decisions on land uses. One other item that we
have added is the noticing. I didn't know if Commission was aware of this, but about
eight months ago we decided to start posting our -- our land use applications on
NextDoor, so that we could get a broader outreach to the community, so they were
aware of what's going on in their community and provide them the opportunity to
comment on applications. So, we have added that date -- the clerk updates that
information on laserfische on searchable -- their searchable documents site. We go in
there, populate this -- that data based on the information the clerk provides and, then,
also a recommendation of Council was to include when the neighborhood meetings
were held and how many -- the number of attendees. So, that way you know if it's a
contentious project or not, you're not blindsided at the hearing and see an audience full
of people and weren't aware that this was an issue at the time that the neighborhood
meeting came in at the time that the applicant discussed the project at the
neighborhood meeting. A lot of times you get up here, you hear the applicant or the
neighbor say we were never notified or they didn't discuss this at a neighborhood
meeting. Well, this gives you an opportunity to at least see when they held that and
how many people in attendance were there. And, again, that -- this is all part of the
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application that they submit to the city as part of their land use application. Again, just
giving you a quicker look at it. One of the other changes that I have highlighted in the
memo that I provided to you is section five here and I kind of tentatively labeled it as
project analysis. Currently, the way the staff report is written we have a Comprehensive
Plan section, we have a UDC section, and, then, we have an analysis section and a lot
of times as staff we have a tendency to be redundant on some of the analysis that we
provide to you, so it can get overwhelming. I read that someplace else and, then, we
cut and pasted it into another section. I thought this was a good way to have all of that
analysis under one heading, so that way as you relate -- you can relate staff's analysis
to not only UDC code sections, but also comp plan policies and see how that relate --
how a project relates to those policies and why we think it meets that goal and policy
and the UDC or how it doesn't and now you can kind of make that Nexus. So, I think
that will bridge that gap a little bit greater for you, not only for the -- the Planning and
Zoning Commission and the City Council, but also the public. A lot of times you can see
the public is getting a little more savvy these days. They are reading through our comp
plan, they are citing comp plan policies, trying to justify why they are in support or are
asking you to deny a project as well. So, I think kind of providing a nexus to that is -- is
going to be crucial in your approval of land use applications. And, then, the findings,
exhibits, conditions, again, this is just a reordering. Rather than having those kind of
mid section of the staff report, we are just putting those items at the end of the staff
report. So, unfortunately, I don't have one all tailored out and broke down as to how it
would look in its final form, but I did want you guys to take a look at this, provide us
comment on it. W ant to hear your feedback as where you think -- if we are headed in
the right direction. If you find this to be helpful moving forward. Staff is eager to get this
implemented. We have some work to do with our IT Department to get us a template
built. The idea is to get this automated and working with our database system, so,
again, a lot of this can be inputted electronically, so we are not -- a lot of staff time
doesn't have to go into populating a lot of this information. We certainly want to get your
input on it as well as you guys read it and -- and help us with these projects. So, with
that, you know, I will stand for any questions or any other thoughts you may have or
other items you may want to include as part of the staff report template.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Bill, I -- I like -- I like the layout of that. Can you scroll all the way up to the
top? I looked at that for section -- the -- kind of the -- so, the summary and whatnot.
Scroll down just a little bit. Is there a way to -- without getting too intense on your end to
have like some hyperlinks or something in there. I mean we got -- you know, when the
staff report is X number of pages long and -- and -- and I'm bouncing here and looking
at it online, you know, during -- during -- during the commission meeting and it says --
you know, talks about a -- you know, a condition in Section C or whatever or we get it --
you know, we drill down, you know, it's 1.1.3. Is there a way to -- to -- to have a link in
there so that we just jump right to that instead of trying to figure out where that -- you're
going to have page numbers I know, but is there another way to even quicker when we
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are up here, we can kind of bounce back and forth without it being too overly intense for
you guys to do that? Does anybody else --
Perreault: W ell, it's a pdf document, so I don't know exactly how that works. But you
could just go up to the section up there where it says page number and pop that page
number in.
Cassinelli: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Perreault: Just do it that way, too. Just a thought. Especially if it's pdf, I don't know
how friendly it is with the links to the outside documents.
Parsons: Well, what we were thinking is a lot of times -- you know, a staff report has a
numerous amount of exhibits as part of the staff report. Certainly we want that part of
the findings document, but at some point we can put hyperlinks in here to the
laserfische site, the clerk's site, and at least gets you to the staff report, the exhibits -- a
lot of times the exhibits are hard to read in the staff report when you get them in this
format. So, if we can create hyperlinks to those exhibits online, too, you can also look
at those and zoom in and verify what the applicant's doing, too. So, I think that's kind of
the next steps to build some of that in there for you, so you do have that flexibility to go
in and out and look at public testimony. That would be a great idea if -- if there was
public testimony we could have a link right there and you can go right to laserfische and
look at all the agencies' comments, you will -- we can create that in the staff report for
you. You can look at that.
Cassinelli: But in -- the one thing that -- I mean I'd like to -- say is if there is a -- you
know, you say we have got, you know -- you know, staff conditions, condition 1.1 point
-- you know. And that's linked and, then, boom, we could just jump right to that,
instead of scrolling down. But -- but I -- you did say -- I mean we could put the page in if
you have got the page number referenced there, too. That would be a -- if you can't do
a link to it.
Parsons: I can talk with -- I'm not a technical expert on any means, but I can certainly
run that up to someone that may know -- have a better idea than -- than what I do, but --
Cassinelli: Do you have that on the -- in this format that you have shown us, do you -- is
there a -- do you have it laid out like that, like your conditions and it would be -- you
have got the page number that they can --
Parsons: Yeah. Typically the conditions will be at the end of the staff report, so you
should be able to dive -- rather than going -- right now we have it structured as Exhibit
B, which is -- again, is about three quarters into the staff report.
Cassinelli: Yeah.
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Parsons: You put it at the end of the staff report and you go to the last couple of pages,
that's where the conditions are going to be. So, you're going to be able to dive into
there a little bit quicker and find that information than trying to scroll through all the other
exhibits and, then, get to the conditions. All of that's going to be at the tail end, so it is
easier, more function -- provides more function for you to get to those documents. I
don't see staff going -- see page six for this condition. We are going to just say look at
section nine. Again, this -- these first tables up here -- community matrix may have that
up -- that's where you will -- will either point you to the analysis section or the conditions
of approval. But this project summary is basically just highlights of the project. It's just
quick numbers for you to look at. Okay. Here is the comp plan designation. Here is
acreage. Here is the acreage. Here is the number of lots. And, then, the analysis will
be how we explain that will typically end up in the analysis section and also any
conditions of approval to support that analysis or staff recommendation. Certainly we
can play with that and see -- see if it's a possibility. I don't know at this point. We
haven't played with the electronic template yet. We don't have one yet. But that's the
next step.
Cassinelli: Yes. If it's -- if it's possible to be --
Parsons: I can look into it.
Cassinelli: It would be nice to be able to jump straight to something.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault; Commission Holland.
Holland: Bill, I think it's a great layout and I really appreciate you trying to make it more
streamlined for you and for us. I particularly like Table 2-A, just the quick summary and
I also like the -- the maps, because I think it's great to see the context and also the
planned development map, I think that's going to be very valuable as we go forward.
So, thanks for working on this.
Parson: You're welcome.
Holland: I think it will prevent a lot of jumping back and forth between the application
and this -- some of the other documents. I notice that I do that a lot as I'm reading
through things.
Parson: So, just FYI for the Commission, too. We are also going to just label our
conditions are one, two, three, four, so -- a lot of times you get tongue tied trying to say I
need Condition 1.2.3.4 -- it just -- it doesn't work well. So, moving forward we agreed
we are going to have site -- we are going to do -- treat it just like any other department
site specific conditions and standard conditions of approval and, then, we will just say
site specific condition number one. Or DA provision number one. Whatever it's going to
be. But it's just going to be simple numbering, get it on the record, get it quick, amend it
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quickly. That way we are not stumbling over a bunch of numbers that make no sense to
anybody. Again, we are working on those standard conditions and site specific
conditions that we will also incorporate into the staff report. So, that work is underway
as well.
Yearsley: Bill, I actually have -- on the -- the -- the information on the -- up above --
keep going up. Like here, one of the things that would be helpful on some of this is, you
know, like what is the open space, you know -- you know, percentage, you know, if we
actually have what the open space is, what's -- and, then, also show what's the
minimum required, you know, so we at least have a standard -- or, you know, even like
your land, you know, density, you know -- you know, what -- what range should this be
in, you know, at least to have a way to judge, you know, where this fits within that -- that
designation would be -- might be helpful as well.
Parsons: Sure. We -- certainly. That's why we have that detailed section. So, we will
explain to you what -- what they are proposing and providing and, then, again, going
back to that analysis, we will put on page five or six and, then, you will see that kind of
explained down there, but we can certainly say code is ten percent and they are
providing 10.2.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Parsons: And that way you know it's -- either exceeds -- it's bare minimum or exceeds;
right? I think that's what you're getting at.
Yearsley: That's what I'm after.
Parsons: You want to know if something is better than code.
Yearsley: Right.
Parsons: Exceeds code.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Parson: I did -- I'm glad you brought that up, Commissioner, because I did want to kind
of touch bases on staff's summary. So, under section six, we are going to tell you that.
We are going to give you a quick summary that says, yep, it meets the minimums or it
meets -- exceeds the minimums. Because we heard from our Council -- you know, like
anything, we want the city to be progressive. We always want to have a minimum, but a
lot of times we don't always want the same development over and over; right? We want
to have a diverse community. So, you're always going to have a developer that does
bare minimums and you're always going to have a developer that goes above and
beyond and so Council has really tasked us to tell us whether or not is this -- in their
words is -- is this a premier community project or is it just a bare minimum project and
so this is kind of what we are going to do to say, yeah, this is -- it's -- it's an okay
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development, it meets code; right? But it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best
development Meridian's ever seen or if one comes in that's unique, 50 percent open
space, a clubhouse, three pools or whatever it may be, we can say, hey, this is going
above and beyond. This succeeds code. And that's kind of a code word -- this is a
premier community. They are more than minimum.
Yearsley: Right. I like that idea.
Perreault: So, on that note to staff, look at how the other developments surrounding the
application have -- you know, what their open space -- like how do you as staff look at
that? Do you look at, okay, you know, within this square mile everything is the minimum
or do you look at it at that -- at that level.
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I don't think we are going to --
again, every project is case by case.
Perreault: Okay.
Parsons: Any project that comes in, if it's a subdivision and it's over five acres, you
know, we are talking -- and you provide more open space the larger the project. I mean
you provide ten percent open space, whether it's a five acre development or a 200 acre
development and there is some code changes that will come before this body at some
point. We have got to -- still working on those as we speak to try to figure out how to
get that -- that right ratio between a five acre development and a 200 acre development.
There has got to be a fine line between that. But, no, the only time that would come into
play is, for example, if a developer had 40 acres and they picked up an additional ten
acres and now they want to do a -- say a development agreement amendment to roll in
that ten acres into their 40 acres and, then, share amenities, then, that becomes a
discussion point in the staff report and we say, well, they did 15 percent here in this first
40 acres, we are only going to require five percent this phase, because the DA is going
to tie all of it under one umbrella. It's looked at as one development. So, they -- overall
they have -- they meet code or exceed code and that's where that example could come
into play. Anything else on that?
Wilson: So, the next step is to have kind of a staff report all drawn up and with this
format; is that right?
Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the next step is really --
we have taken it to the Council. They liked what they saw. We have vetted it through
all the other departments. So, our next steps is really to finalize it, get it automate, so
that when our partnering agencies provide comments all of that gets imported into an
electronic document and, then, go live with this, so that you guys have this format and
get that information in your hands. But moving forward we have already started
implementing Police and Fire's comments -- their new comments. So, you will start
seeing more and more than that and also I want to let you know that I did reach out to
the school district and they have provided me with their information on the number of
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students and the capacity of their school. So, that will start getting rolled into the staff
report, too. So, you will start getting a whole bunch of information, level of service of the
roadways, the road improvements. You will get all of that in this -- in that table, so that
you guys understand what's the cumulative, I guess, impacts of that development and
where all the other agencies are coming from on that development and their -- their take
on it and their conditions. So, I think it's a good step moving forward to get you more
information, but also the right information, so that you guys can make an informed
decision.
Perreault: Thank you.
Parsons: You're welcome.
Perreault: Absolutely.
Wilson: I like the table.
Parsons: Anything else that you believe should be added or you think we captured
everything? I know that's a lot to digest.
Perreault: No. The only -- the only thought I have on it is just is this table going to get
really full and difficult to read, because there is -- you know, I don't know how you're
going to space it with your fonts or whatnot. I just wonder if it's worth -- if you're going to
look at it and it's going to be -- you know what I'm saying?
Parsons: I do. And that's --
Perreault: It's just a formatting thing. When we started off -- I will give you kind of the
high level. When we started this -- started this process we tried it -- we want to
streamline it. You know, I think you heard the school district say that we all want to be
efficient with our time. We have limited resources, but we also want to do -- get the
right information in the staff report. So, this has morphed beyond what we always -- we
envisioned it would be when we started out on this, but I think it's a -- it's good
information and I would let you know that you make -- every project is not going to have
all these matrix as part of it.
Perreault: Yeah.
Parsons: I mean if it's a CUP we don't need -- you don't need to know --
Perreault: So, there is going to be some gaps.
Parsons: Exactly. This is going to be -- right. We are talking -- on large scale projects
you're going to have a lot of these matrix in here, but if it's just a very simple CUP for a
daycare, I don't see ACHD -- I mean you're not going to need all these comments in
here. So, we will -- we will pick and choose and so will the other departments pick and
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choose what they think is important and relevant to be included as part of the staff
report. So, they won't always have all of these matrix. This is kind of the -- the big
picture -- the bigger projects. This is the worst case scenario I guess. I hate to say that,
but this is something you can anticipate with a more complex, larger scale project, for
example, the school district, that Owyhee High School project, you would have a lot of
these matrix. Again, something for a CUP or a drive through, a daycare, you're not
going to get half of these comments in there. It's not relevant and doesn't relate to
something that scale.
Perreault: Thank you. So, is that everything for this evening? Did you want to ask
about the --
Parsons: Yeah. I had a couple more items for you. So, if you recall last Commission
hearing I asked you about the APA website and if you guys had interest in us continuing
that membership for you. Caleb tasked me with that. So, I was just wondering if any of
you had a chance to log on and look through that. That's really a resource for you to
help you do your job better as commissioners. You don't get APA membership or log
on like a staff member would, it's basically you have access to the website, tools and
resources to help you act -- help you do your job as a commission. If you guys haven't
been there, haven't used it, don't find value in it, I will share that information with Caleb
and see if we could discontinue the membership, but if you feel like it does add value
and helps you do your job better, then, certainly we will continue that annual
membership for you. So, has anyone had a chance to get on there and look at it or any
-- any input on that for -- so, I can report back to Caleb on it, the division manager.
Holland: No.
Yearsley: I have not had a chance.
Perreault: I have not.
Cassinelli: I would like to.
Holland: I was going to say, I have looked at the magazine that I had and it didn't have
my name on the one that I had gotten handed, so I didn't try to log into it, but I like the
idea of the resource. I don't know that I have utilized it or looked into how to get into it
yet either. That's a very vague answer. Sorry.
Perreault: To be clear, it's my understanding that it's 575 dollars a year for us to have
access. It's a separate -- it's a separate fee for the planner, so it's not one and the
same. It -- they are paying for just us and it's a separate cost or invoice.
Parsons: A perk of the job I guess.
Yearsley: Is that -- is that 500 dollars each?
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Perreault: No.
Parsons: It's 570 for all --
Yearsley: Oh, for all of us.
Parsons: Yes.
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: If it's something you want us to continue to do, just tell us continue paying the
dues and we will continue to pay. I hate to take away a resource that could provide you
some value.
Yearsley: I personally think the 575 is not that expensive to have a potential resource if
we need it personally.
Holland: I do flip through the magazines when they pass them out.
Parsons: It's nice to see trends and that way -- you know, a lot of times as developers
come up here -- if you see something in that magazine or you have read something, an
article, and you're like, wow, why don't you do this or incorporate this or maybe have
you thought about this. It helps for those -- those conversations and those ideas as
you're deliberating on projects up there at the podium. So, I think -- again, I find it to be
a valuable resource, but I'm a planner and I'm a certified planner, so I have to go and I
use the website quite a bit, but I think, again, it does provide value for you as well. So, I
will go ahead and communicate to Caleb to go ahead and continue membership.
Perreault: Thank you.
Parsons: Thank you. And then last -- one last item before we end this evening is I just
wanted to make the Commission aware that on September 15th the city Planning
Department will be hosting a comp plan update at the block party in Kleiner Park. We
are looking for volunteers. Myself and Brian McClure are currently signed up to
facilitate that event, but wanted to extend the offer to any of the Commission that may
want to come down on a Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon and it's just to
communicate kind of the vision to the community or take in that process. So, if any of
you are interested, I would ask that you just send me an e-mail -- maybe by the end of
next week so that I can -- at least by Wednesday of next week so that way I can
communicate that to Brian and myself and get you on the list to come and join us.
Perreault: And that's just at the comp plan booth?
Parsons: That is correct. Yes. And that's kind of our public outreach as part of phase
one of the comp plan update.
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Perreault: Is that everything?
Parsons: That's all I have unless you have any other questions of me.
Perreault: Do we have a motion?
Yearsley: Madam Chair. Actually one.
Perreault: Oh. Okay.
Yearsley: Have we started looking at the future land use out along this State Highway
16 corridor? You know, with that corridor coming in, you know, have we gone back to
that area and looked at what do we see to that future land use map, you know?
Because I think, you know, the -- the high school was -- it was one particular, you know,
it's right at an interchange, you know. I think that land use -- what we thought, you
know, when it was first done, have we actually started looking at that, decide what we
think that -- that -- that land use might be?
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, we haven't gotten to that level
yet, but that will be part of the discussion as we move into the next phases.
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: And I think you -- this Commission will have some input on that as well.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Parsons: I know when Caleb -- at one time that city -- kind of that four square mile, we
were entertaining doing a comp plan amendment and changing -- looking at the future
land use amendment at some point. Commission has asked us to postpone that and
just roll that review as part of this entire comp plan update. So, that's why I know it's --
it's on the agenda or part of this current effort that we are undertaking right now.
Yearsley: Okay. I think that sounds good.
Perreault: Who would like to make a motion to adjourn?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I move we adjourn.
Wilson: Second.
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Perreault: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn the Meridian Planning and Zoning
Commission hearing for September 6th, 2018. All those in favor? All those opposed?
Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:59 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
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