2018-07-12 BudgetMeridian City Council Meeting Agenda Wednesday, July 12, 2018 – Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk’s Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
1.
BUDGET WORKSHOP AGENDA
City Council Chambers
33 East Broadway Avenue
Meridian, Idaho
Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 8:00 AM
1. Roll-Call Attendance
X Anne Little Roberts X Joe Borton
X Ty Palmer X Treg Bernt
__X___ Genesis Milam __X___ Luke Cavener
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
3. City of Meridian FY2019 Budget Workshop
Adjourned at 3:36pm
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING
FY2019 Budget Workshop
July 12th, 2018
www.meridiancity.org
Review changes since Budget Workshops #2
Review current FY2019 Budget Summary
Council Discussion
Finalize FY2019 Budget
www.meridiancity.org
Agenda
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop July 12, 2018.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 8:05 a.m., Tuesday, July
12, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty
Palmer, Anne Little Roberts, and Treg Bernt.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. We will go ahead and start our budget workshop first by thanking
everyone for being here. It is Thursday, July 12th. It's a few minutes after 8:00. We will
start with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: City of Meridian FY2019 Budget Workshop
De Weerd: Item 3 is the kick off to our budget workshop.
Lavoie: Love the energy. Love the energy.
Field: Good morning, Madam Mayor, Council Members. Welcome to budget workshop
three. I'm going to walk through the agenda for today. I will review changes since our
last budget workshops in June and, then, we are going to review the submission of the
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
proposed budget and dive right into any discussions and, then, hopefully finalize the FY-
19 budget. So, in front of you you have the papers. The first page is summary of
changes, a listing of all the changes that have occurred since our June workshops . So,
I'm going to go through these with you. The first one is -- we had some revenue
adjustments based on the new construction and expiration values by Ada county. The
next one is wage -- actual wages in various departments in the base budget to goes to
5,980. In the Council of your budget book, Council had a 120 dollar increase to
employee training for the MLC LA registration of -- got noticed yesterday when we
register for your November registration, that cost has gone up, so that 120 dollars is the
reflection of that. In Other Government there is a 5,260 dollar increa se to VRT budget.
There was additional funding requested for intercounty services and we have VRT here
today -- not yet. Rhonda will be here representing VRT if there are any additional
questions on that. Participatory budgeting enhancement revenue was adjusted based
on the actual check that was received by Republic Services . We have listed in the
enhancement it was 19,100. The actual check was for 18,410. So, there was a change
there. In the Parks Department there is -- Discovery Park was presented to you guys as
a budget amendment, so we removed that enhancement in our FY-19 proposal. In the
Mayor's Office there was a reduction of 1,200 dollars for cell phone reimbursement.
The Mayor has elected to not accept reimbursement for her cell phone. Moving into the
Community Development Fund, they also have some wage -- actual wage changes
totaling 5,018 dollars. Last is the Enterprise Fund changes. They have had actual
wage changes as well totaling 2,659 dollars. In the Wastewater Department there is an
additional 32,000 dollars, adjusting their G100 for the form that they have revised or
provided is right behind the summary sheet in your stack of papers. They are asking to
replace a 1998 Ford F150 for 32,000 dollars. So, that's all the changes that have been
made for Mayor's budget for FY-19 since our June workshops. So, our next page is like
G100. If you go to your wastewater treatment for wastewater cap you find that form.
Palmer: Is this something to add or something to replace? Where is it?
Field: Yellow sheet.
Palmer: Oh, the yellow.
Field: The next is our FY-19 summary, starting with General Fund and Development
Fund. I'm going to walk you through -- I'm going down straight to the bottom. Where
are we at today. We have total revenue, 46 million -- including tax revenues -- 48 million
602. For expenditures for FY-19 is 47 million. The difference is 1.4 million. So, we are
asking that 410,000 dollars in the Community Development Fund. Looking at the
bottom numbers as of today -- as of right now. For FY-19 total projected revenue is
76.5 million. Changes of a little over five million. They are going to add to the amount
of 1.4. Enterprise Fund. Right now total revenue is 38 -- a little over 38 million. Total
expenditures 36.2. Adding to amounts 1.92 for Enterprise Fund. And that is the current
financial position as of right now on the FY-19 budget. We are going to start right into --
if there is no additional comments or questions, we are going to go ahead and start with
Enterprise Fund, moving to Development Fund and --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: You bet. Just -- just to add to Jenny's review, would like to just express my
appreciation. Since we last met in June there has been a lot of activity and questions
and I know meetings with the directors and myself and -- a lot of good questions that --
that responses that it shows kind of the thought behind the -- the budget that's been
presented. There has certainly been a flurry of activity over the last week and follow-up
questions and that sort of thing. So, I do want to -- to thank you for all of the -- the
research and examination that has gone into this process . This has been a seven
month process and it started in February and this budget is -- is a summary of a lot of
blood, sweat and tears, so to speak, in terms of directors and their teams, evaluating all
of their -- their budget, working with their Council liaisons, with myself, in terms of what
the detail tabs look like, as well as in talking about the variances of each of the -- the
line items. It represents from each of the departments and -- and their -- their
professionals and using their expertise on what they need in terms of tools and training
and supplies to do their jobs, not just today, but forecasted for the growth that we
continue to experience and I do want to make sure that -- that they are being
responsible to making sure that they have what they need to meet the demands of
growth, but also what we demand of them and what providing service to our citizens
and our customers -- because sometimes they are not the same. Customers are not
always our citizens. So, I just, again, wanted to reiterate what we said at the beginning
of this budget process, is a lot of it this year is keeping up with the levels of service , but
also a focus on our employees, because we are -- we are demanding more with less
and we want to make sure that -- that we continue to be able to give them those
resources. There has been questions about training and I think you have met with each
of the directors in finding out the rationale behind that. I will invite Council probably in
September to start looking at some of the policies that we establish this budget and
identifying those areas that you would like to look in more specific and setting the
parameters that we set our budgets to . So, I have kind of looked at some of the
conversations that we have had, certainly looking at training. There does need to be
greater parameters and that sort of thing and looking at how we determine our -- our
training, professional development, those that need to keep up with licensing and
certifications and -- and also looking at new market trends and -- and how to deliver a
service more efficiently. We are at a point that being the second largest city and
experiencing the level of growth that we have, that there is not many Idaho cities that
have grown or faced some of the things that we have. So, you have seen that some of
our departments are happy to go out of state to find relevant training to -- to really be
able to keep up with some of the things that are unique to our rapidly growing
community. Crystal has information. If you have further questions about our
compensation plan in terms of we are a performance-based city, but we do have market
adjustments that we have been making to make sure that our wages are competitive in
the market and that -- this year we have one of those market adjustments, in addition to
the -- the performance-based approach that our city has had, so in our wages one -- our
request in the General Fund we had a -- a police STEP plan of 1.1 million. Our union
contract and adjustment equate to 440,000 and our merit and market total 400,000. We
have also brought in that premiere starts with our employees in addition to the
compensation and the training and the tools needed to do their jobs, we would like to
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
bring back and make them whole for some of the adjustments we made in the recession
and taking advantage of the great rate that we received from Blue Cross and I would
like to acknowledge Christina. I think some of that rate is a result of building employee
knowledge. Our employees are more aware of their health and using the wellness
program to utilize better rates in our insurance . So, this makes sense that we take this
opportunity to make our employees whole. As we look at service meets demand, you
have enhancements that are asking for additional staff resources in terms of FTEs and
that resides in our HR Department and Planning and our transition and our Public
Works, going from a modified schedule to a 24 and we are starting to transition to that,
as well as in our Police Department and looking at their overtime and their service
meets demands areas. All of our departments need relief and additional resources. So,
additional areas that we will want to discuss also in September and will be upcoming or
budget impacts for this coming year and probably the next budget year . Hate to say
that right now to Finance, talking about 2020, but we have to look at Idaho Humane
Society. You had a presentation that suggested that there might be changes . We just
learned yesterday that a meeting has been called with all of the cities with IHS and so
we don't know what that means at this point, but that is coming up. Dave is prepared to
talk about Fuller Park and Western -- or West Ada Recreation District and what that
budget impact might be. So, that would be in addition to what we -- we have here and
we have had discussions with Fire about some of the budget changes that possibly is
coming up that direction. So, with that said I look forward to the discussion. I hope we
can disagree, but not be disagreeable and continue to have a dialogue about setting a
budget that continues to move us towards being a premier city for meeting our vision
expectations and I will tell you, too, that our -- our former City Council's involved you all.
It's not typical of always taking the three percent and we haven't always taken the three
percent when the -- the times were challenging for all of our citizens, but this is a
growing market and we have I think an expectation from our citizens to maintain levels
of service, which means we have to have trained employees and we need to show our
employees as well that -- that they are important to the mission of a premier community.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, if I could take a few minutes and try to articulate some things. This has
been a very exhausting week and now I have got a cold that set in perfectly yesterday
and so I'm going to have a really hard time trying to explain what I'm going to tr y here.
But I met with Councilman Borton last night and he really helped me try to lawyer up the
words that I -- and try to make them mean a lot more about what I'm actually trying to
say than the way that I typically go about things. So, feel free to chime in and say, no,
this is what you really mean, Ty. He was right in our meeting last night. So, there has
been times when I have -- I have said that there is a purpose for the three percent and I
do agree that there -- there is a time, that there is a reason for it and, especially, in that
everyone in this room understands how our budget works and how it's different from the
state, for example, where the state, as more people move in and are spending more
money, the state has additional revenues. It doesn't work with us. We have more
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
people, so it's harder for the public to understand that -- that if there is more people that
doesn't mean there is more revenues, so that doesn't mean that there isn't a purpose
and a use -- an appropriate time to use the three percent. For me -- I mean you have all
seen the extremely long detailed, in-the-weeds e-mails that I have sent you and I have
really appreciated the responses, because they have really helped me to understand
the purposes of the different line items, especially in times when I haven't had you as -- I
haven't been your liaison or when I have, you know, it's been -- usually you have met
with me enough to really understand that I'm not asking those things as a gotcha, I'm
asking because I want to know what they are, because I feel a duty to those who are
paying those taxes to make sure that they are -- that at least I can defend them, you
know, if -- if I'm asked in a grocery store what is this. So, I really appreciate that
information and -- and the -- the understanding of what I have been trying to accomplish
and in the situation we are with the growth that we do have , now may be an appropriate
time to take the three percent. However, because we are assuming exactly three --
really, what I feel like we are trying to say is that three is not necessarily enough to
cover what we feel would be appropriate for the city government to be doing , that it
would be more, but we are already just maxing out what we can legally take. So, with
that in mind, to me I feel like -- crisis may not be the word, but that's the position we are
in is that we need more than we can legally add right now. So, if that's the case there
are things in this book that I feel shouldn't be the priority to make sure that -- that we are
able to fill those needs. So, to me, if we got to where, okay, we only need 2.85 percent,
not three, then, because we are saying we don't need to exceed -- or to reach the max
we can legally do, we are in a position to be able to fund some of the things that are
less life safety issues or less public safety issues and so there are -- there are several
things I'm going to talk about today as we get to them that I want to remove from -- from
the Ty budget if I was all powerful and it was what we were going to do, because I want
to get us to where we are within -- we are raising the taxes only to a level that's
necessary, because that's what's needed, not because we are only allowed to take so
much, but we really need more. And so to -- really, to me it's an exercise of -- of what I
feel is priority based budgeting, other than what we have done, so we are going to keep
doing it, even though it may not be necessary, it may be what a lot of people like, you
know, what really does improve our community, but not necessarily exactly what we
need, given that we would increase taxes more than we legally can to be able to provide
these things. I hope that made any sense, but that's my goal. Not to be I want to cut,
because I'm Ty Palmer and that's what the Palmers do, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any other comments before we invite conversation
about Public Works? Okay.
Field: Okay. I'm going to step over there so I can drive.
Lavoie: Again, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, t hank for showing up for
our workshop day number three and appreciate Ty's and your comments, Mayor. As
Jenny stated, we are going to start with the Enterprise Fund first, just like we have in the
past. If you turn to your Enterprise Fund summary sheet Je nny will have it on the
screen for you as well where you go in department order. So, the way we have it
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
displayed on your summary sheet we will start with that department first, we will allow
you to dialogue and ask questions. You have your subject matter experts here today.
Please ask the questions that you have. So, we will start off with the Utilities Billing
Department. So, if you would turn to your Utilities Billing Department tab . Any
questions that you have on this department in any section, again, the floor is yours, you
guys dialogue. We have the departments here to represent them. And after that we will
go in alphabetical order. The Public Works second, Water third, then, Wastewater
fourth. After that we will go to the Community Development Department and, then, we
will finish the day off with the General Fund. As Jenny stated, our goal here is to have a
balanced budget by the end of the day, so we can present the citizens with a sound
balanced budget for their review and approval on August 21st. So, with that I open the
floor to you, Council, if you have any questions for Utility Billing, p lease, let us know, we
can answer the questions for you. If there aren't any we can move to the next
department. I will let you take the floor at this point.
De Weerd: Okay.
Lavoie: I see no questions for Utility Billing. So, at this point we are going to call Utility
Billing Department's budget clean and acceptable and most likely we won't go back to
that department for the rest of the day, if that works for you guys. So, once we have
finished a department we will move onto the next department and we will call that
department good, kind of like we have always done in the years past. Again, if
something comes up we are always open to bring it back if you need to, but as a
general rule if we close it let's keep the ball rolling. So, with that I open the floor to you
guys for Public Works. Again, this is any section. Base budget, replacements, or
enhancements. I see no questions for Public Works. So, consider that budget
acceptable. Let's go to the Water Department. Any questions for them? No questions
for Water, we will go to the last department within the Enterprise Fund, this is the
wastewater treatment -- Wastewater Department. Any questions for them? It's looking
like there is no questions for Wastewater, again, if we have questions throughout the
day we can open it back up, but we will consider the Enterprise Fund balanced,
acceptable, and will present this balanced budget to the citizens on August 21st. So,
good job Enterprise Fund. Nice. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor? Just a comment, not a question. But I might ask you a
question. I was trying to think of an Oregon State theme, couldn't come up with
anything, but one of the principles that we look at long term -- and I have showed this
with our -- our planning year over year in the capital improvement and -- and use of fund
balance, which you're not doing, you use -- it was tremendous last year, not necessary
this year, and -- and when we talked about kind of a long-term budgeting in the General
Fund, with three percent, but in the Enterprise Fund its swings are really dramatic, but
there are times where you certainly have to raise revenue that's not necessary for this
year's budget, but it's necessary for us to remain cash as you go and the fact that there
is unused revenues necessary in certain circumstances when there is use of fund
balance -- sometimes eight figures is unbalanced -- normal and appropriate in the way
that we handle our cash. So, I think the silence that you get in the Enterprise Fund is a
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
sign of a lot of good work that was done throughout the spring, having those questions
answered, but also making sure we understand, which we do, those principles of proper
long-term planning and we have talked about the -- the ability for your Capital
Improvement Plan to be funded at least in the next five to ten years and we always had
that in mind, to make sure that can occur. Other municipalities are struggling mightily
without those cash reserves. So, hats off to you and all the Public Works for o perating
in that mindset and making our job a little bit easier if you do it well.
De Weerd: Yeah. Good job, Connie. And Allen. And team. And very appropriate.
Appreciate those words. Anything else from Council? Mr. Merica? Not America.
Merica. Okay.
Lavoie: Thank you, Mayor. Appreciate the comments. So, with Enterprise completed
we will move on to the Community Development Department. So, we will go ahead and
they are located in the front of your book. All right. Just like we did with the Enterprise
Fund, we will look at the Community Development Department. We will start
alphabetically. We will start with the Building Department. So, if you rotate to the
Building Department tab within your budget book we will open the floor to you for any
questions on anything regarding the Building Department's budget proposed to you
today.
De Weerd: It's a moving target.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I do have a question regarding -- I know we -- this a clean and we ask question
-- or workshop, but the retention for -- records retention, the amount spent over the last
two years is 22,000 and we are asking to basically double that in one year and I guess
my main question is is -- is this a full-time position for a full year or is this something that
could maybe be a half a year full-time position and get all that done? Oh, am I in the
wrong -- I'm in admin. That's why. I'm in the wrong tab.
De Weerd: And this is in relation to your records retention and someday compl ying with
the codes of the city; right? They have an enormous amount of records and so they
have to hire a contractor to come in. I think this is under contracted labor. To bring all
of those into our code. There are still I think two departments in the building services
and in the police department that still have not fully complied with our records
management. So, they are going through volumes of old records, plats, and all of that
trying to laserfiche them, keeping them to all the different requirements we have in
records retention and so this is -- yeah, this has been an ongoing, but they are hoping I
think to finish it up this year, is that correct, Bruce? Is that about the time frame we are
on? I hope.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Ariel: Madam Mayor -- Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, the -- the answer to your
question is that this is, basically, the close out of the program. We are pushing hard to
finish that and so this represents, essentially, getting us over the hump, getting
everything electronic and, then, compliant and, then, moving forward, you know, full
compliance with the -- with the code.
Milam: Mr. President?
Borton: Yes.
Milam: I had another question -- or now on the right tab I think. So, if that -- 6,000
dollars for vehicle repair, which has gone up substantially because of all the new
vehicles we will be adding, my question is why would -- why do we need to raise vehicle
repair on brand new vehicles that will be under warranty?
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, the value that you see there is a
standard practice and policy that we deploy in all vehicles, regardless of age, make or
model. It's a standard 500 dollars per vehicle -- repair for vehicle maintenance. Ideally
our goal is that hopefully a new car maybe doesn't need a repair, but maybe the 1999
will have a repair of 2,222 dollars. So, if that's the case for that year, we can borrow
from the other cars to pay for that 2,000 dollar -- because they only get 500 dollars a
year. So, we don't like to do a scaled approach, so if it's 23 years old you get 3,000
dollars, if it's 18 years old you get 500 dollars. We don't do a scale. If you would like us
to look into a policy change and now developing a matrix so a year equals v alue of
replacement dollars -- we just stick with the 500 per vehicle, letting the others have --
the older ones borrow from the newer and not required. But we are happy to look into a
different policy change if you would like for us in 2020.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: You want to add that to our --
Milam: It's worth looking at, but not necessarily -- makes sense.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question either for you, Mayor, or Crystal. I hate putting people on the spot,
but Genesis -- or Councilman Milam, but I have a question about employees and their
work related to records and I -- I'm just curious. I know we have lots of employees that
in some facet of their job is related to records retention and I'm just curious how many
employees we have in the city who part of their job revolves around record retention
and record scanning or record deletion. There might -- I think it's an open conversation
down the road for maybe us to take a more holistic look at city records as a whole. We
have got lots of employees that certain facets of their job are built around records. Is it -
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
- are we be better equipped to have a records mizer, for lack of a better word, that
oversees all of that, as opposed to having lots of employees that one or two aspects
their job is adding those records, because it sounds like -- it was kind of my discussion
with the director that that's -- issues related to records is something that they really want
their staff to be able to get there, but it's always something that kind of lands at the
bottom of the list and so this ever growing issue continues to mount year after year. So,
have any good idea of how many employees you know -- I hate to -- I'm really sorry for
like asking out of the blue and -- but I think Councilman Milam brings up a very good
point that it is worth at least discussing.
De Weerd: I think your question actually relates to -- to not necessarily day to day
duties. Once they get on top of the records retention plan -- because this is a plan that
was developed over a number of years and influenced by even new changes to the
state code and so -- and developing this records retention plan, you had records that
hadn't been looked at in other decades. So, this is kind of trying to -- to get on top of the
records management process and some of the -- the more -- the larger departments
that have volumes of -- of records, it -- it necessitated the contracted labor to -- to
actually get on top of it and certainly if Community Development wants to respond or
Crystal or even Chief Lavey, this has been something that once we get there and -- and
you can talk to the other departments that have gotten there already -- they are
maintaining it and now they have a regular process of disposal and all of that -- that the
clerk's office helps kind of manage. But it is just getting on top of the -- the back load
and bringing it -- so, they are doing today's work -- they are still trying to do yesterday's
work and that's -- that's what is necessitated.
Ritchie: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, as the Mayor stated, there is a
records management committee that C.Jay leads from the clerk's office and from that
committee there is a representative from every department, that they do meet on a
monthly basis. At minimum -- to answer your question more specifically, at minimum
there is one individual per department. The larger departments internally they have
maybe allocated additional resources in addition to the full-time job that they have, to
focus on this effort. But to answer you more specifically without -- I don't have that data
in front of me --
Cavener: Sure.
Ritchie: It's a minimum of one per person per department. Larger departments have
probably two or more that assist on an as-needed basis to focus on the department
volume of information that each individual department has to get it int o compliance and,
then, as the Mayor has stated, those that have already achieved that, the current staff
that we have in place are responsible for maintaining those.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: And just to follow up, Mr. Cavener, because I think both Mrs. Milam and your
question are -- are very valid. It -- we have good reason to get up to speed with our
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
retention records policy, because if we are not and we get public records requests, we
have to go back even further, which causes even more work. So, we need to clean
those out and -- and follow a records management policy in all departments and so just
those -- those two departments that have volumes were -- were needing to call in
additional resources to get them to up speed. Good job, Cameron.
Ariel: We will get on top of it literally. It's a mound of paper. So --
De Weerd: Any additional questions in Community Development? And I think you don't
have additional questions, because you gave us an update and appreciate that
continued update as we move along. Council, I did have a question. In June it was
talked about, but, again, I kind of mentioned it in my opening remarks -- about the
workload in our Planning Department and there is an enhancement in this coming year
for an associate planner and at -- a month ago we talked about do we consider it for
2019 or do we want to look at a budget amendment. Either way it still has an impact on
our budget and I'm not sure if Finance is excited, because the deadline for budget
amendments is passed, but did want to -- just kind of query the Council on that.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I would say the sooner we can make that happen the better. Whatever means
necessary.
De Weerd: Okay. We will work with Finance on that. Or Cameron will.
Borton: Madam Mayor, do you have to have a -- do you have to have a budget
amendment if it's not --
De Weerd: We need spending authority in order to even start recruiting.
Borton: Oh. We hope to.
Borton: Yeah.
Milam: Sorry, Todd.
Lavoie: We will be here Tuesday with a budget amendment.
De Weerd: Just maybe for the public record mark down that Councilman Palmer has
authorized a couple of budget amendments --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: Hey, I'm -- there are people voluntarily spending money on building permits
that those funds are what's going to be used to -- they have an immediate return on
investment for that voluntary -- well, it's voluntary -- if they want to do business that they
got to do it, but they -- yeah.
De Weerd: We know what you mean.
Palmer: But I do have another -- I don't know if it's a question or just a comment.
Within this -- with the CDBG position, there is only a slight tweak to what I would like to
happen with regard to what the enhancement is. The enhancement is for -- that the
idea behind it is for the full-time CDBG administrator to be funded within city funds,
whether it's billing -- whether it's the community development fund or property taxes, the
-- the enhancement is -- is planned for using the community development fund for the
position, thus bringing up an additional amount of money that's being used by CDBG
funds for the position, making it more funds available for projects themselves and
having it be, you know, a full-time person, which the percentage is allowed to be doesn't
allow for us to have a full-time position funded by CDBG. So, whether it's a discussion
for today or another time, what is exactly in the enhancement would still work with what
I would like to do dollarwise, but still slightly different in that I would like there still to be a
three-quarter time position funded by CDBG, thus allowing the position funded by the
city to only spend part of their time on CDBG and the rest of the time be able to put their
skills to use in other areas that Community Development would need. It still means we
are spending the same amount of money as is proposed by the enhancement from
either Community Development Fund or General Fund, while allowing us to be able to
have more personnel time for other Community Development uses and still having
CDBG at least mostly pay for its own administration. The only downside I see is that
there are less funds available than what's proposed for the use of the actual funds
themselves, but it wouldn't be a change from what we are doing right now anyway and,
in fact, there is substantial increase in CDBG funds this year over previous years
anyway, so we are -- regardless, there is going to be more funds for actual projects.
So, I don't know if the details of that are for today in that it doesn't change the dollar
figure or not, but at least have it on your radar that that's another idea . So, be thinking
about whether you want the funds that we are currently spending on CDBG
administration to continue to be spent on that from CDBG or if you want to free up
additional funds for CDBG for more projects.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, this enhancement for this CDBG administrator is actual -- cost of the city
enhancement about 84,000 dollars a year. So, my -- I didn't get enough information on
what additional work was going to be done. My feeling this morning was to pull this
enhancement from the budget, especially not knowing who would be doing this position,
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
the efficiency they would have, anything else going to get done. I am all for CDBG
paying for its own administration and I don't find this a top city priority at this time.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, that would actually be my ideal situation, but I didn't think that really had a
shot, so I didn't -- because I don't feel that it's the building permit fee payers'
responsibility to fund the city CDBG administration program and so if -- if -- if it was
going to be as presented, I would like those -- that position be paid for out of General
Fund, because I think it's more appropriate that property tax payers pay for that position
than the building permit fee payers pay for that position. It was a little more palatable if
the idea was that person is going to be spending part of their time on CDBG, because
we still have the three-quarter time person paid for by their own funds. Still not ideal for
me, but more palatable, because we are going to have that person for .6 to .75 percent
of their time -- or .75 of their time to -- to other uses within Community Development.
That would be ideal for me. So, if there is enough interest for that -- what it may require
is that either we accept less funds or we consider less projects and more funds for --
you know, it's time consuming to keep up with the regulatory issues of this and to deal
with the dispersion of all the funds and dealing with all the -- it's huge. It does take more
than -- than is capable with only a three-quarter time person. So, we would have to
reduce the effectiveness of the program to do that, but that's what I'd like to do.
De Weerd: Correct me if I'm wrong, Jenny, but I think the request is out of the General
Fund.
Field: The request right now is sitting at the Community Development fund.
De Weerd: But not using General Fund dollars.
Jenny: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Any additional conversation? So, this is one of those enhancements
that we probably should take a vote on in terms of how you want it to address that .
So --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I may be -- and so -- I didn't know if I was stepping on Council Member
Borton's toes, a suggestion, because I think that as everyone in this building knows, this
body has a tendency to run down rabbit holes that are full of weeds and we spend hours
talking about one thing and, then, we get to the 11th hour and rushing things through.
So, a suggestion in terms of efficiency for us. And I don't know how Finance would feel
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
about this, is that rather than discussion today, if there are items that we think are
worthy of further discussion about the appropriateness or the validity of that to be
included in the budget, can we place them, essentially, in a parking lot and we can go
through everything, get to the end and, then, go back and spend the remaining time to
talk about our items that one or two Council Members maybe feel is worthy of
discussion, rather than us spending a big chunk of time on the first one that pops up
and unfortunate that Community Development starts with a C and not with a Z and so
we are talking about them first, but that just ensures that we are applying the
appropriate amount of time to all of those items that we think are worthy of discussion,
as opposed to walking a big chunk on the one that just happen s to be for us. Just as a
suggestion.
Borton: Madam Mayor? A thought -- maybe a different approach. Because we have
got people here -- there might not be a whole long -- I don't know how long -- how many
there may be, but the information to make decisions and all these we have got. We got
the people here. We can discuss it briefly and make a decision to move on. Perhaps
have that item still placed in the parking lot that we can view at the end, but kind of the
process of by department going through, approving it, have some internal decisions as
needed and, then, get done with it. I mean like this one right now, we could probably
resolve one way or the other in the next few minutes -- I would think. Just because we
are not hearing it for the first time, we are not first learning -- I could be proven wrong
and it could -- and we can change, but on this enhancement I will tell you in 30 seconds
change I -- I support it. What I don't have my head around -- and Councilman Palmer
brings up a good point -- is the mechanics of how it can be expended isn't -- necessarily
has to be decided today, because you have got options. We understand that CDBG
has greater needs than it did three, four years ago and that there is some mechanism of
relief that that position needs and, quite frankly, other -- other needs in Community
Development can benefit from this. Whether or not this portion is utilized on a full-time
CDBG and the available federal funding of the 60 grand that's paid from the three -- I'm
using rounded numbers -- paid for the three-quarter time, whether those get blended to
one person who is all CDBG, not federally funded under the city, or the step -- the what
happens now remains and you continue to utilize the federal funds to fund a full three-
quarter person, you take this person -- or this portion to help supplement and assist the
three-quarter time person who doesn't have the bandwidth to accomplish it all . I don't
know if we decide that, that's probably more of an internal -- what's the best way to
provide relief in a cost-effective way.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Borton: That's why I say we are going forward, now I would hope the decision down the
road is continue to use the federal funds to fund the program as much as possible and
not have the city from any source of revenue spend our money on it, if at all possible.
That's how we -- you know, this whole thing kind of started that way and I get it, the
value in that, but it creeps now to become funded by us and not the federal government
as originally intended, so -- that decision internal may come back and say the way to
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
spend it -- either path this enhancement I think is necessary to provide either form of
relief for the program.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Well -- and I think your point -- and Mr. Palmer's point is that quarter time.
Chris has -- has taken this -- this program and cleaned up a lot of the deficiencies with
the -- the help of Finance. So, we hope that even in the future that it could be that
three-quarter time once cleaned up and tremendous progress has been made.
However, that quarter time was intended to -- to be of a fill in for other duties as
assigned, whether it's economic development, the opportunities zone, the planning
team, even building services, as using the expertise that -- that this position can bring. I
think there is a couple of questions related to CDBG that this Council -- probably not
during the budget hearing -- probably could have a conversation about -- on how best to
move forward. But right now it is on the quarter time, how best to fund it, and the three-
quarter time if we continue to fund it through the grant or if we take it and insert it into
the budget itself.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? I don't believe that's the case. I mean when it was presented
to us in the previous budget meeting that was the question was does it take a full-time
and it was -- overwhelmingly the answer was yes. It cannot be done properly without it
being a full-time position at least and we wouldn't be able to have one person as a
three-quarter time funded by CDBG funds and, then, a quarter of the time funded by the
city. It's -- the person's got to be funded by where ever the person is funded by. Hence
the idea to move it to the city funding and from where ever funding we do it from. But it
-- and I mean you all know my position on CDBG. In my observing of how it's done and
in my faith in Chris and -- and his performance of the job, it does need at least a full-
time position to do it correctly with the funds that are allotted . To do it the most
efficiently, the best way possible, to have as many projects, you know, in the pipeline
that do different things, if we simplified it -- I'm sure it could be done and funded by itself
with a three-quarter time person, but the anticipation is that it's going to -- it takes a full-
time person not dividing it up.
De Weerd: And the grant will not pay for a full time.
Palmer: Correct.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, I am okay with this enhancement the way that it is, but I'm not okay with it
turning into an 84,000 dollar position. Now, if this is a half time position and we have a
three-quarter time position that's funded by CDBG, that actually gives us 1.25 FTEs for
a lot less than the cost. So, I'm okay with a half person for filling in what they need to fill
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
in and maybe if the CDBG person is a hundred percent on just that and not anything
else and has this person helping out, it won't be so exhausting or overwhelming.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Probably a question for clarification. It's -- and Chris has done a
fabulous job. His knowledge is amazing. But we have to go with position and not
people and it's my understanding that it's pretty difficult. We have just been really
fortunate to have Chris, but it's really difficult to fill that position for three-quarters time
that the person with the skill and the knowledge of doing that is really looking for a full-
time position and that we may be limiting ourselves to the talent we are able to acquire if
we don't have it funded as a full-time position.
De Weerd: I think that's a good point when you look at we have had five administrators
in nine years.
Hood: Madam Mayor, if I may. Just to piggyback a little bit on that. Yes, it's more
difficult to find help that is half or three-quarter time, but that is not why the request.
There is a need there today to go to full time, not just so we can find somebody and pay
them full-time wages. There is the need and I hope you all recognize the need. I talked
to the past couple of administrators and they have proven to me anyways that the need
has grown. The reporting has grown. With where we are it takes that resource of 40
hours of somebody working on -- on just this grant. The hybrid model that you guys are
-- that's not how we have requested it. I'm not opposed to that. We don't have the job
description for this new FTE that would, a quarter of the time, work on CDBG or oversee
that position or however that works. Again, not opposed to that, we just haven't fully
vetted how that -- what that person would do and the relationship back to Economic
Development or Planning or Building or whatever that is. I'm not opposed to that model,
we just haven't fully thought that through. And, again, that's not what's in your budget
book and I don't believe -- we can't print the budget, is my understanding. I mean that
would be an additional amount, because that's not how -- that position isn't in here.
This is really to make that current three-quarter time that's currently funded through the
grant full time, funded through the Community Development funds. So, if that's what --
what you want to do. But I think it does take some more work, working with HR and
others to -- to get us there, if that's where we are going, or it could potentially be done
through an amendment or an enhancement, you know, later on. But I just wanted to
clarify kind of where we are at and, again, this isn't so we can hire some -- a warm body
and get somebody in the door, there is -- there is a need for full-time -- however you
want to skin that cat. I mean I will defer to you largely on that. But just -- just wanted to
clarify the need from the past couple of administrators have proven to me that -- yeah,
that's why we are requesting this. There is a need.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Thank you for the clarification.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for Caleb. Caleb, is that need based on the increased demands
from the federal government of us or is that -- we do a great job of taking an idea and
like being -- and being like the gold standard and so have -- have our success in
managing the program thus necessitated higher demand in terms of reporting or is this
with the federal government, it's just asking of all CDBG retirement communities has
increased that need? Does that make sense?
Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, it's a little bit of both. We didn't start
-- we are a pretty small grant even now. We are still fairly -- fairly small in our
entitlement. We have -- we have gotten away with some things in the past that we
haven't had to report on or do where HUD says, okay, that's -- that's okay, you're a
small enough grant -- we are growing enough where they are like you need to cross all
the T's now and dot all the I's. You're at a -- a standard now where we need to hold you
to the standards that everybody else does. So, it's a little bit of both. It's -- we haven't
been skirting anything, but it's been some of the recommendations in the past have now
become requirements. So, they say these are best practices, you don't have to do them
and we have kind of crossed that threshold of, no, now you really need to do these
things and we are going to hold your feet to the fire more on that and Finance can attest
to some of this as well, that, again, we sort of -- it's not that they are looking the other
way or we are doing anything improper, it's just that, again, some of the -- the things that
have been recommendations, again, they are saying, no, you really need to be doing
these things.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up if I may. Caleb, do you know average number of
other entitlement communities that use dollars outside of the CDBG funds to pay for
their administrators?
Hood: I have not -- Madam Mayor, I have not done that research, but that's --
Pope: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, it is not a common practice. Generally with
-- with entitlement grants the size of ours you see cities generally not the size of ours --
they are usually much smaller cities. You either see a contract model where they will
contract out for a full-time consultant to do the work or you see something kind of like
this. The reason that we are moving to kind of the -- I think that the conversation is
around funding outside of the grant -- is there is a lot of convenience in having the
funding for the administration of the position in terms of salary be in one bucket or the
other. Either public funds or federal funds. Mixing the two is absolutely like not
common practice. But, generally speaking, a community our size has a grant large
enough to sustain a full-time position within the restrictions of the grant. Our grant is
currently not of that size. My projections on an average growth year over year for the --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
wouldn't allow a full-time position to be funded fully through the grant until fiscal year
2023. That's kind of a -- just a product of the smallness of our grant right now and,
unfortunately, as I kind of noted in the past whether your grant was 2,000 dollars or two
million dollars, the requirements, as Caleb is noting, are the same and that is a b urden
of the federal program that we work with here in which we have kind of dubbed in too
many times. So, it's not a common thing, but it's kind of a Catch-22 where we are in
that weird sweet zone where we have to ask the question do we mix funding sources or
do we try and keep it simple and pick one bucket of sources and work with what we
have. The city has always kind of recognized -- at least in the past that despite there
being a justifiable need for a full-time position, there hasn't been a way to fund it through
the grant. But we are getting to a point where as the grant continues to grow and we
are starting to see some more pressure from the federal government to make sure that
we are complying with all regulations to the fullest and beyond recommendation, that
there is a need, as Council Member Palmer has noted, there is a clear need for a full-
time position and it's just a question of how -- do we make it complicated and fund it with
mixed funding sources or do we make it simple and do it through one of the buckets .
But one of the buckets is inadequate to fund the position in its ask.
De Weerd: But legally we could combine --
Pope: You legally could and I think that we reviewed -- Madam Mayor -- sorry. We
have reviewed I think with you a few times and definitely internally have this discussion
and we wouldn't have come with you if we had felt that that was even close to an ideal
option. There is just the whole other set of strings that administratively get tied when
you start mixing funding sources with federal money for federal programs and that's just
something that when we talk about the opportunities and flexibility that an enhancement
like this allows for the program to function at a higher level, those get kind of washed
when you start mixing funding sources. More administrative time and burden gets put
on the program to just try and simply just report and account hours and -- and time.
De Weerd: And I think your point when you talked in June was that by bringing it to a
different funding source you could get rid of some of the -- the red tape and spend more
of the time doing different things as well.
Pope: Yes.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I had two questions. That was one of them. Okay. So, first I -- I guess if -- if we
are able to fully fund this position with federal funds in 2023, will that revert back? And
my other question is -- there has been talk in the past years at the federal level of
getting rid of the program. So, if we are now a city funding this program and the
program goes away, what happens with that position?
Pope: Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, if I could respond to that.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: I don't think you need to --
Pope: Sorry, there is one point I wanted to --
De Weerd: Caleb.
Hood: So -- I mean we can commit -- I don't know -- and this may be something more
for Legal. I don't know how much that's committing a future council or not, but it is
something we can certainly look at it. I mean if it's sooner, if it's 2022, but we can bring
back this to you annually and say here is our -- as is stated, here is our anticipated grant
revenue. Here is what a full-time position costs. Hey, if you take 90 percent of the
admin dollars we could fund it out of this or do you want to fund it out of the Community
Development Fund where that's an annual process we can do and, then, we get to 2023
or, again, sooner or maybe later when it's fully fundable out of the grant, that's fine. You
know, I don't -- I don't know where it's going to go at the federal level as far as, you
know, HUD and federal programs -- I don't see it being totally, you know, just going
away, but I do think there -- there has been some real conversations and it sounds like
everybody knows, Christopher is -- is not going to be our administrator for much longer.
I think when we come to these crossroads, if you will -- as the Mayor mentioned we
have had four or five administrators in the past seven, eight, nine years -- we had the
conversation about are we done with this, should we continue on the program? I mean
that's fair. It's a fair conversation. Part of that I think we get -- we get a lot of support
from Finance. This grant isn't funded out of itself now, even at the three-quarters of
time for this position. There is resources. I spend time on this. Brian spends time on
this. They are not hidden costs, but I just want to be real. I mean other people are
touching this. To make it go it takes resources. So, we have had that conversation to
some degree here and question it. We still think it's doing good in the community. We
still think it's worth it to subsidize it, if you will, through other resources to make it go .
I'm kind of rambling off of your original point, but annually we look at this. So, if at any
point in time you say, hey, the time has come, we are closing this out or the federal --
you know, federal funds aren't rolling in, this position, essentially, goes away. If this
work isn't to be done, this position doesn't exist.
Milam: Madam Mayor? Okay. I just want to make sure it doesn't just kind of roll into
another position. But I trust your leadership enough to accept this big chunk of money.
But I would like this to be brought to the Council on an annual basis as far as the
amount of money that is provided by the federal government to fund this position , so we
can review at what point do we revert back over to federal funding.
Hood: Madam Mayor, we can do that. I would also just note -- and it dovetails nicely. I
mean you have -- right now it's open for public comment is the program year 2018
projects. So, whatever you do with the budget needs to be reflected in how we are
spending the grant dollars. So, just remember some of this conversation here in a
couple weeks when -- when you have that and we allocate the projects. I mean if --
again the assumption is this gets funded through community development, but if -- if
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
not, then, we need to modify that the action plan to reflect that. So, annually will look at
it twice. We will look at it through the budget, as well as the action plan.
De Weerd: I think in addition to annually reviewing the position, I think it means an
annual review on -- if it continues to show value to the community and accepting the
fund at all. So, those -- those are going to -- that should be part of the conversation.
Chris has been showing value through the -- the programs that have been selected to
the value of our community, but that may change and you weigh in does it continue to
be worth the additional time that is augmented by others within the department and
within the city.
Milam: Madam Mayor, one more thing. Chris, I just want to know if you were going to
be this person we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, but we have to look at
the position -- we fund the position, not the person. So -- yeah. That said.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: First, Chris, thanks for your commitment and hard work for our city. I think I
have known every person that's worked on the CDBG grant over the past ten years.
Many of them I consider to be very good friends. Your involvement in the evolution of
this program is to be commended and you're leaving this position in a much better
position than you found it. Thank you for that. But we are having this kind of
conversation about the next evolution of this position. I do think, in light of some of the
concerns at least that I have about using either Community Development dollars or
General Fund dollars to fund a position that may or may not be around in the future or
may or may not make business sense to the city to continue to operate -- taking all of
that into consideration, I'm not more supportive of taking a pause on this enhancement
and maybe -- and maybe in order for the city to be able to operate this program
efficiently -- maybe not to the level that we typically like to operate a program, is better
suited with a contractor, so we are not having to spend General Fund dollars,
Community Development dollars, at least in the short run, while we figure out what this
is going to look like. If -- if it makes sense to the city to continue to be in CDBG. I would
hate that we would commit today to funding a position for a program that we at least are
maybe talking about in the future may not make sense for our city to offer anymore.
De Weerd: Well -- and, Mr. Cavener, I -- I know that Cameron and Caleb have been
looking at other models, especially with Chris's announcement, on how we -- we move
forward as we either search for a replacement or look at a contract . So, do you either
you want to comment on that?
Ariel: Yes. Madam Mayor, appreciate the opportunity, as well as Councilman Cavener.
The -- this -- this program is in -- in the crosshairs, if you will, not -- not to -- not to be too
bold about that, but we -- we, too, our looking at this -- very focused on this program
particularly. Is it -- is there an ROI to the city. What makes the most sense to -- to -- to
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
fund the program, to not fund the program, how to fund. It certainly with Chris's
departure that does bring, you know, the contract model back into focus. I think we are
-- we are really looking hard at this. Do we go back out to hire and see what we get
there. If that -- if that makes sense. And see what the interest is and what the market
is as to the caliber of applicants. I would also say that, you know, does it make sense at
all to continue the program is -- is on the table as well. So, from, you know, director
level it's something that we are -- we are looking at and want to make sure that we -- we
do right by the citizens of the community. So, to your point, Madam Mayor, we want to -
- we want to do our due diligence and -- and -- and to make sure that we do this
correctly.
De Weerd: And regardless of how you move forward, you would s till need the
enhancement to continue, even if you decide we need to close out , you have years to
close out -- I mean it -- it doesn't go away right away.
Hood: And, Madam Mayor, that was going to be my -- my point and I appreciate
Councilman Cavener's comments there. The reality -- I mean we can pause and we
can talk about this to some degree, but the program move on and time keeps going
and, again, like I just mentioned, you have -- we are going to potentially, if -- you know,
accept another 400,000 dollars in a couple of weeks -- I'm assuming that we are going
to have an action plan and continue to do that -- at least for this next year. Now, over
the coming year can we pause and talk about if this is our last year coming up or not --
absolutely. We can. Right now, though, to not fund this at -- at the requested level as
we figure out where we are going forward, I need -- I need some help to keep this
moving forward in the interim. Longer -- it doesn't have to be longer term, it could be
mid term, but we can't -- we could, but we really need to look at it if we are going to
seriously explore closing out what that look -- the implication, how that happens -- I
mean we could talk about that, but -- but these funds really just keep the status quo
sort of moving forward until we figure out if that's good or not.
Cavener: So, Madam Mayor, really appreciate where you're coming from. I guess
that's -- to me that's all the more solidifies that funding enhancement or shifting the
evolution of this position to be funded out of our General Fund dollars or our Community
Development dollars, is maybe not the most prudent step. Now using the dollars that
are allocated for administration from CDBG, if -- and, again, it kind of shocked me that
we are having this conversation about, again, maybe this city is not going to be in the
CDBG business. I'm surprised Council Member Palmer is not dancing on the table right
now. If we are having some of those conversations, then, to me it's all the more reason
that if -- if that's where we think -- we, at least, Mayor, are open to that discussion, that
we have to scale how we manage the program and use CDBG fund dollars to pay for
that. That's just my -- my opinion. Because if that's where we think we might be going,
the potential of that, I don't want to commingle General Fund dollars and Community
Development dollars, because I think to Council Member Milam's point, how do we
unwind that position as well. So, to me today this is -- this is an enhancement that I
support at least -- and I used the word parking lot earlier -- to be placed in the parking
lot so we can have a larger discussion if need be later, but it's one I understand the
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
value, I understand the need of the resources for the department, but it's somewhat
nebulous about what this position is going to look like and so I -- I can't be supportive
until we have got some finality about what that's going to look like or where we are
going to head to allocate the --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: And I owe you an apology.
Cavener: I'm sorry, what was that?
Borton: Yeah. Good discussion. I would -- I would suggest if there is greater
information now available to make a decision, then, just -- if we can decide on this --
and there is a lot of work going on, but to get into the path of whether CDBG is going to
survive -- that's a whole other topic, but not for today. Assuming it survives to fiscal
2019. I believe so, in my opinion. So, if the motion, to be somewhat formal to make it
happen, I'm supportive of the amendment staying in for the purpose of publishing the
draft budget, all things considered. So, I would make that motion, keep it in for now.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Discussion?
De Weerd: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: As opposed to a substitute motion, I would hope that this one would fail and
that we, instead, remove the enhancement for now and go with the intent that CDBG
continues to pay for itself while looking at either a contract model or finding another way
that if different funds are necessary maybe a budget amendment to make it so that it's
effective. My concern is that if we move this over now with the intent of, okay, hey, 2023
might be able to deal with that, then, we have a new -- I won't be here, we will have new
Council then and my concern is a future council concern that, okay, maybe this position
costs a hundred thousand dollars now, are we willing to take 100,000 dollars out of
CDBG project pool to be able to have it pay for itself administratively. So, that's my
biggest concern with -- with just taking that position out of its own funding as
contemplated by the enhancement.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Milam: A third option -- well, similar to the first, actually, that we leave it in for now,
because this is -- the budget is getting published, but in the meantime maybe we can
get -- find out if most of the towns that don't make -- get enough money to fund a
position, why -- have we looked into contracting this out? What does that look like?
And get some more clarity on that, because, honestly, that might be the best way to go
with this.
Hood: So, Madam Mayor, we have done some of that and Christopher can speak if you
want to get into the weeds on some of that model. There are quite a few communities
that contract it out and it's one, again, that we have looked at seriously. I don't know
and maybe I would be surprised if -- if we went out with three-quarters of the time or --
or maximizing the grant administration dollars for contract purposes, administrative
fund. I don't know if we would get anybody to respond. Again, I think there is a need
there and we haven't -- we haven't asked the question. Meridian hasn't asked that
question. But knowing some of the other communities that pay this, again, they are
paying, basically, a full-time wage via a contract to somebody to administer their grant.
The -- the concern I have -- I lose Christopher on the 26th. Do I post -- I need -- I need
to back fill a position. If I have nobody sitting in that seat -- we just talked about it, there
is 40 hours of work here. Who is doing it? So, I need -- I need some direction -- and we
can -- I mean I can work with Finance on putting together potentially an RFQ, but even
that we are talking months before I get somebody to back fill and I'm not trying to, you
know, put you guys in a bind, but I need some like pretty certain direction , again, in the
more immediate term of vacancy and we don't have a contingency plan for CDBG. I
mean I'm it, you know, with Finance again, but I like the conversation that I think we
need to have, but the dollar amount today -- I mean I think you can go out for a contract
-- even a one year contract at --
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Milam: Sorry. But 60,000 dollars is a lot of money for a contract, so I know that as city
employees -- maybe that doesn't seem like as much and it's just not as much , because
a fully loaded position is a lot more, but that's 5,000 dollars a month. That's a lot of
money and I have a hard time believing that we couldn't find somebody to do it for 60
grand. I could be wrong, but --
Cavener: Keith Bird saying call for the question.
De Weerd: I think let's call for the question. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anything further on Community Development? Okay.
Lavoie: No further questions for community we will leave the budget as is and we will
publish that for the citizens for the public hearing on the 21st.
De Weerd: And we will move forward with a budget amendment and add that on next
week.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I got one more thing.
De Weerd: Oh.
Palmer: I'm just trying to find some finality as to really what -- what -- you know, if we
are setting a budget, let's make the people that are working in different places that are
being paid for by whatever -- I'm still so confused as to -- to economic development, do
they have a part-time assistant? Do they not? How is it funded? Did we all get -- it is
something I meant to look at and maybe I -- maybe it's changed in here and not --
De Weerd: They still have a half-time position.
Palmer: Okay. Does that half-time position spend time in economic development?
De Weerd: They spend time at supporting economic development in t heir time, yes.
Palmer: They do?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Palmer: They do?
Sherwood: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thanks for that question. We have
right now -- when that transitioned, of course, since April has left. However, I do get
assistance with doing -- scheduling our business retention meetings and just making
sure that the Mayor and I have our weekly -- or monthly meetings for business retention.
I do get assistance as well doing the Facebook posts and, then, as things come up, if
needed, we can coordinate those things.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Palmer: Does the 50 percent have a person? Is that -- my concern is because 50
percent of that time is being paid by the development community. I just want to make
sure the development community is getting that 50 percent of the person. If the Mayor's
office needs a three-quarter time person -- or a full-time person, I understand your office
is very busy, there is a lot happening there and that you operate on a lean staff -- are
you -- do you have the need for more so that we can ensure that if you have the need
for the -- are you -- is everything working as it should I guess?
De Weerd: I would say that 50 percent time is available. Is it used? Not always, so --
but that's not because that resource is not available.
Palmer: Okay. Then should it be -- is it only needed a quarter time? Should we adjust
it to a quarter and three-quarters?
De Weerd: Fifty percent. It's half percent.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I can't hear what you're saying. I don't know if I'm just not
under a speaker or --
De Weerd: It's a 50 percent economic development and 50 percent Mayor's office.
Cavener: Okay. Madam Mayor, what I'm hearing is, though, is that the position isn't
being utilized 50 percent of the time for economic development?
De Weerd: Robert?
Simison: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Council, I can speak to -- so, the way we have it set up,
in addition to -- there is several people in the Mayor's office doing different economic
development activities. We not only support the administrative side, but we have also
dedicated -- you may or may not recall April's involvement in the downtown. She was
really focused on downtown economic development with the business association.
Actually, you know, she's the one that helps with the Meridian Press through her efforts
or working with them. So, our efforts are both in that position with a focus on economic
development related to downtown. Also from the MDC's perspective to help with that,
as well as the administrative side for Brenda 's support as needed on things that she
asks us to do, as well as certain duties that are ongoing through that process . So, it is -
- is from a time perspective to do 50 percent economic development activities for that
position in the Mayor's office, absolutely.
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: But it's spread out over different people doing different types of functions.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? And there is a reason I'm diving into that. If it was from
General Fund it wouldn't necessarily be as relevant. But where it's coming from two
different sets of customers, I just want to make sure that each one of them is getting
what they are paying for.
De Weerd: Well, it's relevant regardless of the fund, but I appreciate the conversation
and for the question. Okay. Thank you, Brenda and Robert. Bruce. And Cameron.
Anything further? Okay.
Lavoie: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council Members. With the Enterprise Fund
finished and the Community Development departments finished, let's move to the
General Fund departments. Again, we will look at our summary sheets and we will go
alphabetical starting at the top. So, with that we will start with the clerk's department.
Are there any questions for the clerk's department as submitted to you today?
Milam: Everything.
Lavoie: I see no questions here. No questions for the clerk. So, we will call that good.
How about for the City Hall budget? So, if you go to your City Hall tab, any questions
within the City Hall section?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I do have a question on the roof top chiller unit and replacing parts just in case
they might go bad I think sounds like it could be a waste of money, particularly they are
just worried if the compressor goes out and compressors can be tested I'm pretty sure,
so my question would be why don't we test the compressor and see if it --
Freitag: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Milam, I have got
Max here to kind of help me with this one, so -- how old is the chiller unit?
Jensen: It's ten years old now.
Freitag: Industry standard recommends replacement on those parts --
Jensen: They recommend replacement based upon the hours that are actually used.
So, we are at that point that they are recommending replacement of the moving parts
for it.
Freitag: So, the other considering factor in this -- given the fact that City Hall doesn't
have any way of opening windows, cooling, if we lose that unit, particularly in the
summer months we would be looking at a minimum of 48 hours of not being able to
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
occupy the building. In addition, as that unit ages the efficiency from an electrical
perspective decreases. The new parts would probably recognize a power savings as
well on that unit. So, all factors considered, with the unit being the age that it is, the
recommended replacements and the potential issue for down time as that ages, we
recommend a replacement at this point for those parts.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, that didn't really answer my question, though, which was has it been tested?
I understand there is like recommended replacements that -- I have air conditioners that
have lasted eight years and I have had air conditions that have lasted 20 years plus.
So, they -- every one of them it varies and I think it might be in tip -- it might be in
awesome condition. So, my recommendation was have it -- somebody come out and
look at it first, maybe we could wait a year or two. I'm not saying, you know, don't
replace these parts ever or wait until it breaks -- it might be in really good condition and
not really that big of a risk of breaking just because of the amount of hours that are on it .
Jensen: Right. So -- they didn't actually shorten the -- recommended replacement of it
last and it was like one more year to get the most value out of it, so -- but the
recommended time to replace it was last year. Now, you can kind of look at it -- the type
of compressor that's -- that's actually in the unit itself won't show -- it won't show that
much failure up to the point that it fails and when it fails it fails bad. So, you can kind of
look at it like a pair of tires; right? As far as it's recommended to replace tires after it's
less than an eighth of an inch, right, of -- of tread. After that you kind of run the risk as
far as sliding around that during the ice time range or the loss of traction of driving a dirt
road. So, we are -- we are just trying to be proactive and to replace it before those
issues actually occur and -- and happen, just to make sure that the comfort level is here
within City Hall. It's comfortable. If -- if it does fail -- these compressors do fail and we
are up to -- you know, the replacement time could be up to two weeks to replace the
compressor. So, that's two weeks with no AC.
De Weerd: So, you have had it --
Freitag: And it was checked last year. So, to the -- to the question, Council --
Jensen: And the previous year.
Freitag: Yeah. We did receive a recommendation from the mechanic that serves the
unit that it was time for this to occur, so --
Milam: Not just based on the number of hours --
Freitag: It was just based on --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Milam: That was -- and that was my question. So -- sorry, Madam Mayor. But to your
analogy about the tires, that's kind of like saying, well, you should replace a tire after
10,000 miles, but they might be in really good condition and they might have half inch,
so --
Jensen: Right. So, that's why you always verify and always check. Right.
Freitag: So, we do have a recommendation for the --
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from the City Hall tab?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just two questions. One about the computer replacement. You have got one
computer that's set to be replaced with -- it looks like the data card built into that. So,
that brings with it the ongoing expense and I'm just curious the reason we need to have
a computer with cellular data built into it if it's going to be work -- being used in City Hall.
Freitag: Is that a '19 replacement we are talking about? I -- I believe, Councilman, I
would have to probably defer to IT on this. I think this is the regular IT computer
replacement schedule, so I don't actually have that data available, so I will let Dave
speak to that one.
Tiede: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, this was
a replacement that was determined to be replaced with a surface -- with a data plan and
not to put it back on you guys, but the request to add a data plan -- for a device capable
of a data plan did come from the department. So, I believe that was due to the
availability of a maintenance tech needing to go out to other facilities other than City
Hall. They go -- they provide support at police, so --
Freitag: My apologies. Yeah. I thought this was part of our regular replacement
schedule, so it was a request for an upgrade and -- and the maintenance is servicing 15
different facilities and so they do require connectivity, as they do that and the surface
was to facilitate that. So, it's an upgrade to the -- a new mobile device.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. Dave, isn't -- I guess the extension of our five fire
stations where we are maybe moving towards that, but all of our facilities now have Wi-
Fi where are computers are able to connect?
Tiede: The only other exception that I'm aware of is many of the buildings out at the
wastewater plant.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Okay.
Tiede: But I would --
Jensen: That and, then, also on top of the roof -- you don't have to get the access out
there, so -- we typically do not build coverage outside of the facilities. So, if -- if we are
up on the rooftop working on a -- a rooftop unit, you can't access any records or data off
the roof.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I recognize that we are -- we are having a long discussion
about replacing something that costs 240 dollars a year, but is it -- is it mission critical to
be able to have -- I don't know the work that goes on and how much time is spent on top
of the police department's roof that would necessitate I think for an ongoing data
expense. I just want to make sure that if -- if we are investing or we are spending these
dollars that they are being used appropriately and there is a critical need and if there is
an availability of staff to do the full capacity of their job without that particular element ,
and, then, that's something that I'm supportive of just -- it just strikes me as just
something you wouldn't expect in an expense related to City Hall that we got to connect
to the Wi-Fi or cellular data.
De Weerd: I think what Max said in terms of the connectivity, whether it's on the roof or
at the wastewater treatment plant where they may or may not have Wi-Fi, is -- when
you're needing a set of plans and you need the reliability. Otherwise, you stop your job,
you go find Wi-Fi and that's not very efficient either. It almost already justifies the -- the
time element to the cost. And I would imagine if you didn't need it I would think you
wouldn't ask for it.
Freitag: Precisely. And, Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, that's very true. And in
many cases these -- these technicians are -- are directly communicating with vendors.
There is technical specifications going back and forth realtime . So, it is extremely
necessary for their ability to efficiently and quickly resolve those issues.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, a question for Dave while you are up here. Do any of -- do
we have many employees that have city-owned cell phones and the emerging feature is
the ability for personal Wi-Fi hotspot, as the city do we have that feature built in for our
staff to be able to use if they have a -- a smartphone to activate a personal Wi-Fi
hotspot.
Tiede: Councilman Cavener, we do offer that. There is an additional fee based off our
current plan with Verizon. I think it's ten dollars a month in addition to the cell phone.
We have a handful of people using that around the city. I don't know if that was
considered at this point with -- I think it really comes down to the use case. Sometimes
that's not always feasible. The signal strength isn't always as good. And, then,
obviously, it does affect battery life and with the -- the need being pretty consistent and
constant for the staff, I don't think that -- I think that was part of why they decided they
wanted something built in, so --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Madam Mayor, one additional question. Dave, it's been a while since I was
an employee here, but I remember at one point IT offered little personal hotspots that
people could take traveling. Does IT still offer that?
Tiede: Yes, we do.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up questions. How many of those do we have and how
often as those being utilized by various departments?
Tiede: Currently we have four of those. Usage -- I would have to go and pull our report,
but they get used pretty regularly, especially in the summer months they are going out
to -- one big use case in the summer is they go out to the summer camps that the Parks
and Rec Department provides and provide connectivity for registration , things of that
nature. They get used quite a bit, though, and when we don't see use we are trying to
suspend them without charge, so --
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: That's awesome. Any other questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor? I -- just as a commentary, with regard to the parking lot over
here that we are paying 1,800 bucks a month to rent, I would that -- to have it on our
minds that the city has a future opportunity -- the one across the street, the likelihood of
a multi-story parking structure is very high, so I would hope that we might look for an
opportunity to utilize the forthcoming opportunity to eliminate our 1,800 dollar monthly
expense for rent of parking spaces to our south.
De Weerd: Absolutely. But we get 42 parking spots with that lease, which has been
cost -- a cost advantage to the city, but I appreciate you raising that. When we talked
about the use of the former maintenance building and -- and the parking, we did say
that we have a group that has started conversation on a longer -term plan and that can
be -- that certainly is considered part of that. Okay. Anything further?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, one additional question. Sorry. Can we just get educated on
the training element that's included in the budget, what that's used for, who goes, what
the training plan is for that?
Freitag: The building operator license training?
Cavener: It was -- sorry, Madam Mayor. Augment our reports we just --
Freitag: Sure.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: -- get kind of -- in a narrative term -- I think if I'm not mistaken that's what's on
this one as well, so if we could get an understanding as to what that is and where it's at
and the necessity of it.
Freitag: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Cavener, we do have an
800 dollar request for building operator license training. This will be for one of our
maintenance technicians. This training is primarily driven towards industry best
standards for operating and maintaining commercial structures, everything from HVAC
efficiency, how to set your system up, run it in an energy efficient manner, to the way we
contract with outside vendors to maximize efficiency and cost-effectiveness. So, it's --
it's kind of an international standards training that --
Cavener: Perfect.
Freitag: -- that Max has just recently completed himself and received certification.
Cavener: Awesome. Great.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is nothing further, I'm going to call a ten minute break. We
will reconvene at 10:00 o'clock.
(Recess: 9:49 a.m. to 10:05 a.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and get this meeting up on track. Thank you for the
break. We are going get a little bit out of order to respect a couple of people's time. We
have Rhonda with VRT here to answer any questions, so they came up in some of the
-- the dialogue since our last workshop and so, Council, I would ask if there are any
questions at this point.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Rhonda, thank you for joining us. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Yeah. So, will you give us a refresher of how many stops are in Meridian?
Jalbert: I actually don't know that off the top of my head. I know that the routes that
serve Meridian are the 40 and 41 and th e 42, but I can definitely find that out. Also
when we do our assessments, are -- it's usually done on a per capita or a population
basis and, then, your charge -- your service contributions are based upon the amount of
hours that the bus is passing through and the number of stops. So, we are re-looking at
those calculations and we can bring those back to you at a later date and percent, so
that you will have more information on how the service contributions are actually put
together.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Palmer: So, we are asked for money based on the amount of time the bus spends in
Meridian as it drives through it?
Jalbert: So, typically, on service contributions what it's -- how it's calculated is -- we call
it Vehicle Revenue Hours. So, the three routes that come through there is a certain
amount of time that that route actually runs per year and so the routes that run through
Meridian are during the weekdays five days -- days a week and, then, how many -- we
know how much a trip from point A to point B is so many hours and , then, what we do is
we take a look at how many stops are within your region and how long the bus is
actually in your region. So, if 50 percent of the time the bus is passing through
Meridian, then, that's what it's charged for.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Whether or not the bus stops --
Jalbert: It will -- the bus must stop. If it does not stop -- there is a route that runs
through Meridian that does not stop and Meridian is not -- does not provide any service
contribution to that.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Do we know how many people ether get on or off at any of the
stops in Meridian?
Jalbert: So, right now we do not. They are called automatic passenger counters that
actually count when people get on or off at a stop. We do not have that technology as
of yet. We can do sampling and we have been doing some sampling, so I could get that
done in the next couple of months, have it sampled to see how many people are
actually getting on and off within your jurisdiction by route.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Thank you.
Jalbert: Uh-huh.
Palmer: We don't really have much -- or any data as to how many Meridian citizens
utilize the service that cost them a lot of money. I -- I feel like it's been shown and I
even agree that Harvest Transit and the Dial-A-Ride service is an effective use of
dollars and that it's serving disabled seniors and military, whatnot, but just the general
use services that we may or may not be getting from VRT, they may be stopping here,
we don't know -- if people are getting on and off of them, I don't think it's an appropriate
use of our tax dollars and certainly not -- you know, within a priority I feel like where we
are, again, planning on maxing out how much we can legally ask the taxpayers for when
we don't have data is to whether any of them are even using the service . So, I would
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
like us to remove all of VRT funding, with the exception of Harvest Transit, Dial-A-Ride
senior transportation services.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: A couple of thoughts. Appreciate your comments, Councilman Palmer. Out
the gate I would urge every member of this body, if you haven't done it yet, to make
plans one day to try to use the express service to get from Meridian to downtown Boise.
Just -- if only to experience it. By doing so you will see that there is a wide cross-
section of our citizens that use -- that get on and get off and take advantage of the
service. I think we have an obligation as a valley to provide public transit to those that
don't have their own personal vehicles for -- for whatever reason. We are a state that
has a very unique model when it comes to public transit and while I have my own
personal criticisms or areas of improvement for VRT, I think overall they provide a very
critical and important service. The other piece I think that when it comes to -- without
having science or matrix base to make a decision about should we have public transit in
Meridian or should we support a -- a non-Dial-A-Ride, non-Harvest Transit model -- is
we don't always necessarily have the data on how many people come in and patronize
a park in any given year. We -- we know that there is a need and part of being a fully
functional municipality is supporting public transit to the level that we can . So, I'm not
supportive of removing anything related the VRT this year. I do think that we as a city
need to become a different type of stakeholder, ones that are more active in discussion
of philosophy about public transit in Meridian, but I do think making the decision to
withdraw any funding or support for this program and the vital need that it serves many
members of our community is inappropriate at this point.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I guess I would just add to what Mr. Cavener articulated -- is that in our city
survey public transportation, different mobility options, was a high-rated concern and
interest on what we need to be spending our -- our attention and focus on. As well I
don't think value is necessarily always quantified in who rides, but it's how many trips
are removed from our roads and so I think that are public does have a benefit in getting
less cars on the roads through different mobility options and -- and so I -- I would just
add those comments with it. There is a value. Right now it's not fully utilized, because
there is no identified funding source to -- to adequately provide that kind of service that
could see greater return, but this -- this is for now until a different funding source can be
realized -- as something that removes trips from our roadways to allow those that
continue to use their single occupied cars at least less of a wait.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: I agree if it's removing trips there it has a dollar value. But either -- do you
know how many trips it's removing or is it the fact that there are -- that we don't know
what it is. If it removes any trips it's worth whatever they are asking for?
De Weerd: I think you could almost ask for the data on how many riders and with the
assumption that those riders are usually single occupied vehicles. Those are removed
cars from the roadways. And so I'm sure, Rhonda, you can get ridership numbers and -
- and have some kind of correlation to to -- to less cars on -- on the road.
Jalbert: And I will get that information to you in the next month, if that is acceptable.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I agree that this is an asset to the community and there is value. I also, though,
am interested in the numbers of Meridian ridership. So, if you can get that sample. And
the reason -- because I have had people complain to me that it's full by the time it gets
to Meridian --
Jalbert: Okay.
Milam: -- and I don't want to pay extra if our riders are not even allowed to get on the
bus because it's ready full by the time you get there. So, I'd like to look at that.
Jalbert: Okay.
Milam: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: And I think that has been a concern that we have expressed that VRT was
going to get from the Commission. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: A question for everybody and ma ybe especially Councilman Cavener, you had
mentioned that -- that you're not in favor of removing any funding, but is everybody
comfortable with the increase in funding requested without data to backup?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: The question was somewhat directed towards me. I'm happy to respond.
Generally I'm supportive of -- of the increase. If you have been to any Finance
Department update -- monthly updates they talk at great length about, you know, the
cost of doing business and increase in cost. I think that this is unfortunately directly tied
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
somewhat to that and the ability for the system to function comes at an increased cost.
I agree that there is some areas of improvement that comes with efficiencies that VRT
can look at and explore and are and so I'm supportive of -- of the increase because it
will allow the system to continue.
Jalbert: Thanks.
Cavener: And, Madam Mayor, for what it's worth, I think that we will talk a lot today
about cost and property tax percentage increases. I think that there are -- I think that
providing some form of public transit for our citizens, whether that's riders of need or
riders of choice, is the role of government. I think that if there are people that need to
be able to get to and from work, to and from commerce, that we have an obligation to
provide something that works for them and I think that that comes at a higher priority
than some of the other items that are included in this.
Jalbert: May I make a comment?
De Weerd: Yes.
Jalbert: So, the numbers are 224 is what you're considering for your contribution to
Valley Regional Transit. Is that correct? Okay. We did submit an updated letter and we
were requesting 295.
Fields: Rhonda, maybe I can provide some clarification. The 224 is what we are
currently in the base budget. So, the additional that you have submitted the letter for is
an actual enhancement for Harvest Transit section . So, there is two pieces -- there is a
two piece component to this request.
Jalbert: Okay.
De Weerd: Yeah. Because the additional was for the -- the third vehicle for Harvest
Transit.
Jalbert: Okay.
De Weerd: So, that is considered separately.
Jalbert: Okay.
De Weerd: But thank you. Any further questions for Rhonda? I know she needs to get
back. Thank you for joining us. Okay. Other Government.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we are going to respect time, as the
Mayor mentioned. If we wouldn't mind jumping to your Other Government tab. If there
is any questions on any of the items discussed within the Other Government tab we
have your departments here to answer any questions.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Everybody's favorite topic. Well, my favorite topic. MAPS. The first time
around I wanted to just eliminate it. Second time around I'm not sure what I did. I think
I just mentioned it. But I think what -- rather than eliminating the ordinance or funding
MAPS, my goal each time that I have brought it up has been that the Council has a --
you know, at the end of the day just say, well, code requires that we spend 50,000
dollars on arts. You know, I want Council to own that that's the decision they are making
and after a conversation with Councilman Borton he had an idea th at I -- that I kind of
like, that maybe instead of repealing or doing any of that, the ordinance have a sunset
and so, you know, in the spring sometime after -- every couple years after a new -- after
an election there is potentially new councilmen, that gets brought up for renewal, after a
change any new councilmen have had a few months to kind of learn the history of
MAPS and what's taken place, as a chance to understand how budgets work and
everything and, then, fully make a decision to say, yes, for the next two years, until we
potentially have a new Council, we are going to reup this ordinance and, then, it's
irrelevant to -- to have the discussion here at the budget meeting, because we have
already affirmed that this is a priority and this is what we a re going to do for the next
couple years, rather than it being in here as an enhancement, when, really, it should be
a base budget item, because it's -- it's in code, it's -- it's what we are going to be
consistently spending, so, then, either we are renewing the ordinance or not. Whether
it's a discussion today or another time, that -- it's in here today, it's going to stay in here,
but I would love for it to come on the agenda to discuss whether we want to have a
sunset for MAPS.
De Weerd: I have that.
Palmer: Sweet.
Cavener: So, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh
Cavener: I guess related to MAPS, as Mr. Palmer likes to call it, I know that many of us
have talked over this kind of series of meetings and budget time about every support,
meaning a property tax increase or not, or somewhere in between and to me I think I --
I'm a long proponent of MAPS. I think it's a great program, but if we are having a
conversation about trying to reduce the increase of tax dollars on our taxpayers,
everything has got to be on the table and so while I support MAPS, I like MAPS, to me
this is, unfortunately, one of those low hanging fruit that I think that we need to discuss
as a Council and say are we comfortable with continuing to find MAPS, knowing that
with that it will come with a property tax increase. So, this is one that I'm supportive of
removing from the budget for this particular year. If I remember correctly when we
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
implemented the ordinance, the idea was to bring this back as an enhancement each
year so that Council had the opportunity to assess the merits if it's worth inclusion in
each annual budget. So, now is the appropriate time to discuss that. That's where I am
today.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: If there is anything else in this book that I bring up every year that I'm always
alone on that you guys want to maybe possibly go along with, a heads up would be
sweet. I say, yeah, let's keep it in there and, then, somebody says, well, maybe not.
Because I agree, I have it on -- on tight budget. Of course, I have it pulled because I
feel that we need to, instead, put those funds to capital improvement, whether that
means still taking the three percent, but diverting those funds, or reducing the -- the
percentage of the tax increase by that I think is a more fiscally wise decision than
maxing out the legal and -- because, in reality it's 73,500 dollars that gets spent on art.
Any other -- traffic boxes and everything else.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I'm not in favor of pulling the MAPS. I see it as part of the quality of life that
makes Meridian at premiere city and I get comments all the time from people who
appreciate the art that's being installed and yesterday I was getting my hair cut, you
know, everywhere I go people are enjoying and appreciating the art and it's what makes
this a quality, beautiful city to live in, so I would like to keep it.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I agree. I think in light of all the tradeoffs that take place I think -- and there will
be a discussion as to whether or not it's renewed on a bi-annual basis, I'm glad to
decide and speak on behalf of this line item in support of the arts in our community,
which I will support eight days a week. I think this ordinance is appropriate and its
purpose is appropriate and our community is now starting to see benefit fro m it and
that's only going to grow as it should as our community grows. So, having us renew a
commitment or the next council renew commitments is a good discussion, which will be
on our agenda soon to discuss that ordinance, but for purposes of today I fully supp ort
it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Lavoie: Madam Mayor and Councilman Borton, if we could just do a quick vote, make
sure we have the consensus on this part icular item and, then, add it to the future
agenda for discussion.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And maybe if there is any other comments as to whether -- I mean it doesn't
have to be either the 50,000 is there or it's gone, maybe 25,000 would be appropriate.
Maybe we need to put 25,000 into capital improvement or reduce taxes by that amount.
Is 50,000 the number, whether it's zero or 50,000, that doesn't necessarily have to be
loaded yes-no, it's in or not.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To take a shot at answering the question, I think for the purpose of today in
passing a budget, keep it as is. I think you asked a question that is particularly relevant
in addressing the ordinance as a whole, which when created was based on the formula
of X whatever per population, something for -- set in population. Maybe that's kind of
arbitrary, maybe that's not appropriate, maybe there is ways to revisit that, rather than
have us take a blind stab at a number, try to tether it to the growth of the city. So, this is
probably fair game for discussion as well. The formula not today, but down the road
when we talk about the ordinance as a whole, what formula is most appropriate to try
and serve the purpose of supporting the arts.
De Weerd: And I do believe that Hillary in her annual update does present -- and they
have a five year strategic plan for public art that she discusses what they have done the
previous year, more about the year ahead, and so in the discussion certainly we can
bring that plan that they have in place and as you have the conversation you have that
in front of you, so --
Borton: Madam Mayor, another art club has the -- one of the founders has been on the
board at the Meridian Arts Foundation for a number of years and opportunities to have
private investment fund that support the arts. Anybody who is interested in trying to
steer opportunities to fund arts in our community, which we all love, but perhaps desire
for more private investment than public investment, call me and I will put you to work,
because we are trying like heck to get our private business community involved to help
support the arts, so -- and the art week in September, the arts and wine thing -- there is
more opportunity.
De Weerd: Okay. So --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Milam: Madam Mayor, we need to make our motion.
Cavener: So --
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Cavener: Madam Mayor -- oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Milam: No.
Cavener: The Mayor's running the meeting.
Milam: I would -- I guess do we need a motion to leave it in or only if we want to take it
out? Because it's already in. So, it seems like we only need a motion if we need to take
it out.
De Weerd: The idea is the items as they are being discussed if there is those that are --
are saying I can't support this. We would like to have a motion so we know in that area
that it's -- if we move from department to department.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: And I think this is kind of what we spoke to kind of earlier in our time about
trying to have a parking lot where we can move these items so we could build a
collective list and, then, go through that, but for the sake of the discussion and to get us
moving forward, I will make a motion that we remove MAPS from our budget and it's
hard because I think is worthy of continue d discussion as part of a larger picture. I
support MAPS. I support what we are trying to do. It's just a matter of dollars. So, for
the sake of trying to reduce the liability, I'm supportive of pulling it out of the budget, I
guess with the caveat that we have an opportunity to discuss it towards the end of the
day. Again -- and I don't know how that works in the process, but I'm getting it at the
time. So, I will make a motion that we remove MAPS from the budget.
Palmer: Second. And, Madam Mayor, I have a question for Bill.
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: Bill, if we were to take this out of the budget would it require that we repeal the
ordinance? Does the ordinance compel us to fund it or can we not?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Palmer, I'm looking at
the ordinance here and it's 1-9-4 of the Meridian City Code. It's says the City Council
shall on an annual basis appropriate to the MAPS program an amount from the General
Fund equivalent to 50 cents per resident with no more than 50,000 dollars in the
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
General Fund is appropriated. So, without repealing this ordinance you would be
violating it by not funding it. Now, again, I think in the past we have talked about it,
again, it's an appropriation requirement. It's not a spending requirement. So, you can
always not spend it during the course of the year, but your ordinance does require
appropriation. So, you would need to repeal this ordinance if that was the direction of
the Council.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, if it's -- if the money doesn't come to us each year as an
enhancement -- maybe that's a question for Finance, but --
De Weerd: The ordinance dictates that it's an enhancement.
Lavoie: And, Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, we present it on an annual basis to
follow the Code 1-9-4C on an annual basis the City Council shall appropriate. So, we
are just trying to make it public, so if let's say a new representative is on the Council,
they are being informed of the situation of this request meets an ordinance. So, when
we get a new council member, a new representative, it's not, quote, unquote, in the
book, in the weeds, it's present and available to the citizens and to staff members.
De Weerd: It's to encourage awkward conversation.
Milam: Yeah.
Cavener: So, we are going to answer the question then.
Palmer: Well, Madam Mayor, maybe -- maybe the motion is not something we can vote
on, maybe, instead, it has to be in there unless we are making a motion now to bring an
ordinance to repeal it or do we have to just wait until they come to us an d say, okay,
here is what we want to do with the funds and, then, it's at that time we say, no, we are
going to save this money or, yes, go ahead and spend that. If the motion doesn't do
anything.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Milam: Can we just vote on it.
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
MOTION FAILED: ONE AYE. FIVE NAYS.
Milam: I guess there is no removing it.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Borton: But it's duly noted, this conversation, and the ordinance and the consequence
of changes and the city clerk has --
De Weerd: Other conversation in Other Government? Okay. Hearing none --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Cavener: Sorry.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Again, I'm sure I know where the Council lies on participatory budgeting. This
program I think is a great success for our city, but I think is worthy of -- on the
conversation about pulling out of the budget as a mechanism to reduce the property
taxes. Especially, in light of -- because of the success of using sponsorship or donated
dollars that would allow the participatory budgeting program to continue at the same
level that we have funded for the past couple of years, this just would stop the increase
of dollars going towards participatory budgeting. So, I'm supportive of keeping it at
20,000 dollars total and removing the total enhancement request of 20,820 dollars.
Palmer: Is that a motion?
Cavener: Yes.
Palmer: Second.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: For discussion I guess on the motion. Does the -- the additional increase in
that enhancement correlate with spending authority and the revenue receipt from
Republic Services?
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, this enhancement here would be
requesting for a full 40,000 dollars worth of spending authority. So, that's what this
enhancement motion is requesting. We do recognize 18,410 dollars as a revenue
source that we recognize, but the most -- the enhancement is asking for 40,000 dollars
total.
Borton: Madam Mayor? So, it's --
Lavoie: It's not on record.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Borton: No, you agree -- Madam Mayor. Because what you're -- it's not spending an
additional 20,000 dollars of General Fund revenue, it's authorizing the expenditure of
revenue that's been received from an outside source through the city.
Lavoie: It's authorizing the request to spend 40,000 dollars regardless of where we get
the revenue monies from.
Borton: Correct.
Lavoie: So, again, it's just requesting the citizens to allow us to spend 40,000. We
happen to have 18,410 dollars as a revenue source that will offset this.
Borton: Madam Mayor, did that make sense of what I'm trying to say? So -- so, if we
had previously spent 20,000 dollars of taxpayer money, this 40,000 dollar enhancement
is asking spending authority of 22,000 dollars of -- up to 22,000, sorry, not 40.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sorry, were you done?
Borton: No, I just wanted to make -- make that clarification.
Milam: This is an additional 22,000, but -- or additional 2,000. In light of the amazing
projects that have been done through participatory budgeting, I am not in favor of
reducing this amount, considering that the addition -- that we did receive additional
funds this year for another project and the MYAC, who did the participatory budgeting
this year was able to -- they didn't even utilize the full 20,000 dollars, because they got
sponsorships that covered I think most of what their project was and I hope that they
can continue to do that in the future. So, even though we are budgeting a little bit more
than what we have in the past, it might not all be spent and -- hopefully. But I still
support both having two different groups doing participatory budgeting, because it
brings a lot to our community.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, you said 20,000. Did you want 20,000 or
did you want 18,410?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, may I answer the question? In -- the scenario is that we
allocate spending authority up to 20,000 dollars, as we have traditi onally done in the
past. Period. So, we can use the 18,410 dollars of the revenue source already coming
in from Republic, use General Fund dollars to supplement the rest to create 20,000
dollars available for participatory budgeting.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions or discussion? I will need a motion on this.
Palmer: That was a motion.
Cavener: I did make a motion already.
De Weerd: Oh, yeah, you did. Sorry. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: Does that mean I break the tie?
Lavoie: That's a good question. Mr. Nary, do we have any -- this a workshop. I mean
does she have to -- does the Mayor have to break a tie or does a tie say it stays in or
what --
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so the state code directs that the
Mayor may break a tie at any time that the Council is tied, but it is totally the Mayor's
discretion on whether to choose to break the tie not. In -- in the normal course, if -- if
the motion ends in a tie, the motion fails.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: I will let the motion fail.
MOTION FAILS: THREE AYES. THREE NAYS.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: This is the budget you brought us.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, then, I will vote -- if the motion will fail regardless of what I --
Palmer: Right. But the reason I'm asking -- or making that point is -- is I'm asking you
to -- to ratify that you aren't just letting us not make a decision , that you are saying
because you're not making a decision the decision is -- this is what it is.
De Weerd: So, the outcome won't change with my vote, but I vote no against the -- the
reduction.
Palmer: Thanks.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Okay.
Lavoie: Any other items for the Other Government section for discussion?
De Weerd: Okay.
Lavoie: I see no other questions, so we will consider the Other Government section as
is and we will publish that to the citizens. We will jump to the streetlight section next, if
you would not mind. So, if you would go to your streetlights tab, we will discuss the
streetlight section.
De Weerd: Any discussion on this item?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Just commentary in that -- that I really do value our funding of the streetlight
projects. I think they are -- it's one of the simplest ways to have a dramatic increase in -
- in safety and I don't know if police would agree, but I think it would make their job
easier, you know, the more lit up streets are the less need for them. Other people can
see what's going on. Not less need for you, but you know what I mean. And so I really
think this needs to be in here and to be a priority, though I wish it could be more.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I would echo Councilman Palmer's comments. I think that we need to be
budgeting more dollars related to street lights on an annual basis instead of less. This
is one of those no-brainer enhancements for me. I think it's a necessity for our
community.
De Weerd: And I would say that they are doing more with less, because of partnerships
that they have been able to utilize, so this year you will see more with the -- the same
investment and we appreciate the efforts of the team this focused and I know that 's a
multi-departmental approach. Any further discussion? Okay. Thank you.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, appreciate that. We will move
back up the line to Council. So, if you wouldn't mind going to your tab in your Council in
your budget book, the Council section, and we will have any discussions on the Council
budget has proposed.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: On this particular one -- and we may get to this being kind of a larger
discussion as we get towards the end of our meeting, but I'm -- I'm supportive of
removing all the travel and lodging associated with our budget . I think that if we are
going to be -- in which I will be asking as departments in between now and before we
approve the budget to take another look at their travel and transportation budget and
see if there is areas to reduce that liability and so if I'm going to be asking our
departments to do that towards the end of our meeting , I think that it's important that we
lead on that. I recognize, I think as all of us at the table do, the value that comes by
going to an NLC, or the Boise Metro, but, again, I think if we are at that point where we
are, again, raising property tax dollars, that we need to be the leader and find every
opportunity to curb that impact. So, I think that starts with us, which is why I'm
supportive of removing that.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Was that a motion?
Cavener: Sure. Madam Mayor, I wanted --
De Weerd: I didn't hear it, but I heard a second and it's like what?
Cavener: If I were to make a motion -- and I'm happy to do that now -- is that we
remove all employee seminar training for P7-200 transportation, lodging, and per diem.
Palmer: Second. And Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Mr. Bernt?
Bernt: Madam Mayor. Did you say that you want to remove it?
Cavener: Remove.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: That works out to 17,044 dollars, which is no small amount of money.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I agree that that is a lot of money and, you know, we are asking departments to
cut back or, you know, reduced costs when they can. However, I also feel that a lot of --
there is a lot gained for -- for the city for some of these conferences and I don't think that
people are abusing it or going -- traveling every year, doing it for fun. It's really to learn
and to -- and bring back value that could be cost-saving to the city or, you know, adding
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
new programs that are really helpful and beneficial to our citizens . I practically work as
a volunteer and personally don't want to spend more than I make in a month to go travel
and spend the night at a conference to try to better the city.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Councilman Milam, I completely agree with you a hundred percent.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If I may. I think -- I think Council Member Milam is -- is a hundred percent
correct. I don't have any concern that our employees are building family vacations and
going -- using the city dollars -- I don't think that's happening and I believe that our
directors and our employees are above reproach in saying by going to training X or
conference Y that they are bringing something back and I know that when we go to
those kinds of things we bring something back. For me the question is is it worth the 17
thousand and change for us as a body to go to these types of conferences? Do we
bring back 17,001 dollars in value back to the city by attending. I don't know if I can
make that case. But oftentimes we talk about our desire to defend financial decisions
that we make to the public and that is a price tag that I don't feel that I could be able to
defend and if everyone else is in supportive of keeping it, great, I'm happy to answer to
the one, but I know that I'm going to be asking the hard questions of our directors, like
we all have been, and I think it would be inappropriate for us to say, directors, go back
and take another look at your training and travel budget and see if there are things that
could be omitted for this year, that we don't have to take such a high property tax
increase if we as a body aren't saying we are going to look at ourselves.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you, Mayor. And I agree with what you're saying, Council Member
Cavener. I -- I don't think that there is anyone on this body that has been even come
close to insinuating that there is a misuse of funds when it comes to transportation or
lodging or conference in -- in any department of the city for sure. So, in -- so, I think
maybe what you're saying is maybe we hold ourselves to the same level that, you know,
we are holding different departments in the sense that maybe we ask them to, you
know, look at their budgets making sure that, you know, if there is any fat that we can
cut they can cut it and we do the same of ourselves and so I don't think we are asking
any department to cut their lodging or for -- for their conference expenditures, we are
just asking them to look at it and maybe we should do the same for ourselves.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Yep.
Little Roberts: Mrs. President?
Borton: Yes.
Cavener: I agree that I think that it's something that we should look at, but thinking back
over with some of the conferences that I have attended, we have seen some economic
issues come out of it that I think have actually maybe even paid more and we have
reaped the benefit economically more from some of the things that we have attended
and maybe some businesses that we have learned about coming into the valley and
things like that through continuing to do these, but I think maybe we should go and
analyze each -- after each conference what did we learn, what good -- what benefit did
come out of it and review this as we move along and be more diligent about making
sure we have those discussions.
Borton: I can -- Madam Mayor? I -- I agree. I disagree with -- with removing it, but I
agree that that's part of the dialogue. We used to -- especially the national conferences,
when one of us would go, we kind of come back and say some remarks about, hey,
here is what I have learned and kind of some things that are worth bringing back. There
is certainly more value I think, financial and otherwise, to the city greater than the cost.
Absolutely. My perspective -- I think it should stand. I think the training and travel and
everything should stay in as presented for -- for every department, because for me it
goes -- it's that -- it's that quid pro quo. It's you have to be excellent as an employee
and the directors say you have to be excellent, to be as current and in -- have all the
tools and resources to be exceptional in your job and we demand excellence and if you
need to be trained and have more skills and certifications afforded to you to be
excellent, then, so be it. And so I think it's our job to empower our directors to do that,
because their job is to demand their staff to be excellent and I -- amongst us, the
demand to us is go be excellent and whoever is here after us. So, go to these trainings,
travel and make good use of it. Report back and bring those values back to the city and
save dollars. For me, one national conference in particular I looked at finances and it
brought back some great discussion about how you avoid debt as a municipality grows
quickly. We are an anomaly around the country in how well we manage cash and the
CFP that -- that Finance operates probably should be -- probably should speak at these
conferences and talk about how these kind of graphs and how our five or ten year CFPs
show sustainable revenue for our capital and labor costs for Enterprise and General
Funds. It's exceptional. So, these decisions we make here weigh necessity for debt in
2025, we would save a heck of a lot more than 17,000 dollars. So, the end result I think
should stay in, but we can do a better job ourselves doing what the directors probably
do is you go to a conference, you come back, you probably report, I assume, to the
director. How did it go? What did you learn? What did you bring back? How can we
do better based upon what you gained at that conference. And if you can't answer the
question you're probably not going to go. So, I think that's your professional judgment.
I'm sure you all do that. We probably can do -- revisit doing that again ourselves and
would ask.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Okay. We do have a motion on the table. Any further discussion? The
motion was to remove. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
De Weerd: Okay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
De Weerd: Any other discussion under the City Council budget?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I don't want to waste much time on it. I have already asked C.Jay to just plan
on not having me -- with the business meals and whatever the new title for the coffee
and miscellaneous is --
De Weerd: And if I can just say -- you know, a lot of -- a lot of conversation was, you
know, the title of this line item and Finance has had conversation with each of you on
kind of the history of the coffee and miscellaneous . It has been retitled, if you saw in
your -- your update, it's employee recognition and coffee. The coffee word is still in
there, because there are some that use that coffee as that form of daily recognition and
each of the departments do decide how -- if they use it for coffee it's a combination
thereof. If they use it for team building, for employee recognition, whatever it is that that
renaming of that 52-0-13 is employee recognition and coffee. So, it's not as confusing.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? And, I'm sorry, I interrupted Mr. Palmer and I will call you
next.
Palmer: Yeah. So, I mean I'd like for it to be a lower number on the books reflecting the
fact that I won't be participating in it, but if all that takes more time than it's worth, then,
leave it as it is, but, hopefully, we end the year with, you know, a substantial portion of
that each time either put it back in two years from now or leave it as it and, then,
actually spend it two years from now.
De Weerd: Little Caesar's. Mr. -- Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I guess since we brought up the coffee, I think
everybody in this room knows that's something that has caught my attention and, one, I
really want to appreciate the directors sharing their philosophy on how they manage that
fund. One, because it's really insightful from me who is someone who admires great
leadership to see how each director kind of utilizes that particular line item to do what's
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
best for their particular department and it was just really enlightening for me to see
Director X wants to do this to really make a big impact and pull the team together.
Director Y wants to use that fund to really highlight a particular contributor who has
really went above and beyond. My issue was never with the name. It was getting a
better understanding about how each department uses those particular funds and so on
that note I guess it is just -- just an ask holistically to our departments is to use
discretion about where those dollars spend, because our citizens have the opportunity
to see that and you can go to the Applebee's and spend 30 dollars on a meal, you can
go to Kona Grill and spend 30 on a meal, but when our citizens see that our employees
are going to meals with those types of places, it's natural for them to want to ask why
and so I just ask that as our departments are using that for how they can best benefit
their department, use discretion about where those dollars go , so that our citizens can
understand, even at a glance, that you are doing great work and taking their dollars into
account, so --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I mean at the end of the day it's really important -- I mean the happier staff is and
our employees are, the more effective that they are going to be at their jobs and
whether that's in the private sector of the public sector, in my opinion it's the same and
so I support these dollars if they are used wisely. Just, you know, I echo what
Councilman Cavener just said, you know, we expect a certain level of service and a
certain level of -- I think we have an expectation that we hope that you meet and in
doing so I think it's important that you enjoy your jobs, that you enjoy coming to work
and you work as a team and you enjoy each other and if we have to spend an extra
couple of dollars to make that happen, I think it's important, because, then, that reflects
on how -- you know, the level of service that we give to the citizens of Meridian and
that's what they expect as well. So, I fully support and I appreciate the clarification that
Councilman Cavener asked for.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Are we removing food and water, Councilman Palmer?
De Weerd: No. He didn't want to spend 45 minutes discussing that.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: But he does expect at the end of the year a reduction. Does that
summarize what you said?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, yeah. I just want to reduce my burden on it, because I'm
asking others to do like -- not for this, but for any number of things I'm asking for
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
reduced dollars. So, if I can reduce my burden to the -- as minuscule as it is, I'm going
to try to find ways to do so.
Borton: Great.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further on this budget?
Lavoie: I see no questions from Council, so we will go to close up Council and move
onto the next department. So, in your book if you wouldn't mind going to your Finance
Department. That would be the next one.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Every time I go meet with Finance I feel like my base of knowledge just
exploded -- explodes. That's the best way to describe it. So, in my latest meeting with
Finance. Todd introduced me to Fred Pryor. Good dude, I guess. I don't really know
where the name came from. I haven't looked that deeply into it. But there is several
things that was this Fred Pryor guy -- I'm like who is Fred Pryor. So, he introduced me
to it and I just kind of glanced around their website and there is tens of thousands or ten
thousand or whatever different courses and so I don't know what level of use, if any,
throughout the rest of the departments, but it seems like Finance has found great use
for it and it's extremely cheap, relatively speaking. So, I just encourage if there is other
departments who -- if there is a use there to check it out and see if there is other
opportunities to implement maybe some online trainings or courses, whether it's that or
any other means that may be able to replace actually traveling to a seminar or
something -- to look at.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: So, this is my first budget process and it's -- it's -- it's -- it can be extremely
overwhelming when you're looking at these type of numbers and all of the ask s and
some emotion that comes with it and -- and how important things are and I -- as the
newbie on Council I just want to say thank you to Todd and your team and Jenny for
your help and understanding. It's been -- it's been great. It's been easy. It's been a
pretty flawless process for me. Any ask we had response very quickly and so I just
wanted to say thank you. You guys were spectacular.
Lavoie: Thank your for the good -- thank you for the good word and I will pass it onto
the team. Hopefully that's what we are doing. Our goal is to give you exceptional
service when you need it. So, appreciate the good word. Thank you.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Any further comments or questions on this? Hearing none we will move on.
Lavoie: Human Resources. So, if you wouldn't mind going to Human Resources in
your budget book we will discuss any items that you have there.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions or comments under this tab?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: More just, I guess, a comment, rather than a question. One, thanks to
Crystal for making extra time to talk through some of their enhancement requests with
me last week or two weeks ago. Again, I'm going to sound like a broken record for the
rest of the day, but we are looking at property tax increase. To me everything has to be
on the table and I can understand the value -- the benefit valuation consul -- consultant,
but it's not one that I can get behind if it is necessitating a property tax increase. That's
one that I have listed for, again, moving to that parking lot in terms of the budget that we
would want to propose and Crystal and I have had some really great --
De Weerd: Are there specific questions that maybe it would be helpful for Crystal to
comment on?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, no questions. Crystal and I, I think, had a real productive
meeting where we talked through all that. I -- I don't disagree that this is something that
on HR will inevitably need to do. I know it's something that they have wanted to be able
to do to benefit our employees for some time. If we weren't already maxed out at our --
at our three percent, it's something that I would be more open to having conversation
with, but when I'm looking at the budget, it is one of the things that we have to be able to
fund this year and there are other items that we would have the opportunity to maybe
fund in future years. To me this just fell on the line of something that I -- I recognize the
value that it would bring, it's just not something that I would -- I feel comfortable with
including in this year's budget.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I agree in that I -- I have this kind of in my list of priorities as above some of the
other things that earlier today as Council has already decided were the priority and so,
then, that would necessitate this one coming out. I would like to have it in, b ut MAPS or
any number of other things would have to go. Just goes to our priority.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? We probably --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Sorry.
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If there is no other comments, I'm happy to make a motion that we remove it
from the budget.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
De Weerd: Okay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, I have talked myself in and out of Peak. What is -- under HR or
somewhere else?
Cavener: It's an appropriate place to talk about it I think.
Palmer: So, I had pulled Peak from a lack of understanding from it. Todd talked me
back into Peak, because I was like this sounds awesome, because you can make up
34,000 dollars worth of efficiencies in pretty good time. But, then, I got thinking about it
and, then, three minutes of him explaining to me what it was already gave me things
that I was going to start changing in my -- my day and this is from just telling me what it
was and so I imagine having had people go through this process -- I understand part of
it is to, then, get people certified to do it, but I feel like if Todd had enough information in
three minutes to -- to have me make a change in my life already on -- on what it is, then,
I'm sure there is enough information to anyone else who is involved in it to regurgitate
enough of it to be able to benefit the city without the 34,000 expense to do so. It also
kind of falls into -- I guess we will fund it if this comes out, but we don't have the money.
It's got to go.
Cavener: So, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: When I went through this budget, I -- and we look at all of the many
investments that the city makes in our employees, one of the things that's kind of
bubbled up is that we do a really great job of investing in training. We have talked a
little bit about that today. We do a really great job of investing in professional
development, so how that individual employee is growing as an individual and, then,
continuing education, so we are also investing in our employees' ability to grow
academically and all three are valuable. All three also have a significant amount of a
financial investment and to Council Member Palmer's point, we invest heavily in Peak.
Last year -- or I guess this fiscal year -- and I know that many of our employees had
benefitted from that. I think the question is do we think it's worthy of further investment
for that next level of employees to have that same opportunity. It may be or it may not
be. I think the larger question, one that we have to ask ourselves is are we as a body --
Council in supportive of -- with the significant investment that we make for our
employees to have the approp riate training to grow professionally and to continue their
education and if we are, great. I think that answers a fairly large question with the cost
associated with it. To me I think this is an opportunity where we have said we have
made a financial investment in Peak. If the dollars are available in the future, we want
to continue to invest in it, but just because we are saying maybe we are going to play
and press pause on it this year doesn't necessarily mean that we wouldn't be open to
exploring it in future years. I'm one that for this year that we continue to get the benefit
from the investment we made in this fiscal year and have that conversation about
maybe investing at -- and other employees in next year's budget, as opposed to this
year. So, I'm supportive of removing it.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, Peak was at the -- kind of at the top of my list of things that I was really
unsure about and so I have been asking -- talking a lot, asking a lot of questions about
Peak in the last few days and I'm convinced that it is an excellent program , that we
should continue this year. That has been already from this last year it is not planned to
be in the budget for 2020. This would be the last year of the Peak program. Twenty-
five people are going to go through the program. The people who didn't get to go
through it this last time are very anxious and excited about what they will learn, because
of the amazing results that they have heard from their peers, who did get to go through
the program, creating great efficiencies in departments that could potentially save as
much as it cost or maybe -- hopefully more. So, in favor of leaving it in this year. I
would like to, you know -- and I hope that there is a good follow-up program, just like
with any other training, to make sure that -- that -- that it's being followed -- that it's
being implemented and -- and changes really are being made, that it isn't wasted
training on anybody, but I really don't feel like that's the case. So, I think that it's a great
training program.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. I definitely agree with Councilman Milam, having gone
through the Peak training with many of the directors, I had the privilege of continuing
discussions and I think that it really is a program that we can reap the benefits out of
financially, as well as time wise, to make us more efficient and I think it is real critical
that we go ahead with that next step , so we are not so dependent on those -- I believe
25 people that went through it the first time, that the directors have their division heads
and things that can pass on that training for their teams and things. But I would love to
see our directors maybe give us some reports -- include in their reports where they are
seeing some benefit from this training. I was very impressed with the training. Was
able to take back in person and use it and I think that we can all benefit from continuing
the Peak training.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I would also like to add that for a three, four day training we are not paying any
lodging or transportation for our 25 employees to be able to go to that. So, there is a
huge savings, in quotes.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, how much staff time is over four days and 25 people?
De Weerd: I guess just to add to what Council Member Milan and Council Member
Little Roberts just mentioned, Peak is like lean manufacturing for government. The
initial group saw great value and wanted to bring it to the execution level, which is what
this year's process is about. Also built into this is train the trainers. So, you will have
five members that have been identified as those that will follow this to -- to, hopefully,
bring it to an execution level where we can start showing where those e fficiencies lie.
This is an investment in finding process improvements, but what other cities have
demonstrated is it also saves financially in -- in employees' time and in some cases in
better processes that have a direct correlation to savings in spent budget. So, it is the -
- the next level and I think it's the boots on the ground level and I would -- would ask as
part of this is we have a way of recognizing where some of those -- as Councilman Little
Roberts mentioned, where those efficiencies have been gained and any costs saved, so
at next budget year you can have that conversation or as part of either the strategic plan
update or an update in and of itself. So, we will find that mechanism for reporting back.
But I do think that with this training there should be demonstrated savings in time or
process.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: And I don't remember the exact number and hopefully you do, but I know
we are not near as large as Denver, but I think their initial savings was three million
dollars that they were able to recognize within a short period of time and if percentage-
wise we can recognize that in our budget , I think we will have more than paid for the
Peak training.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And I don't doubt that. You know, Councilman Cavener's point, we don't -- it's
valuable, but we just did it, let's give it some time to realize those savings, to, then,
judge best who would need to go again next year. So, with that I move that we remove
it for FY-19.
Milam: Madam Mayor? Sorry.
Cavener: No. Go ahead.
Milam: So, just to -- to clarify, Councilman Palmer, this -- it would be a total different
group of people going -- it's not the same people going again.
Palmer: When I said again I meant --
Milam: Expanding the knowledge about our city and their department.
Palmer: Right.
Milam: Okay. Well, I have a motion. Is there a second?
Cavener: There is a second. Oh, wait. I made the motion I think.
Palmer: Did you make the motion?
Cavener: I can't remember. I thought I made the motion. I thought you --
De Weerd: No. He made the motion.
Cavener: Then I will happily second it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk .
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
Lavoie: Any other discussions within the Human Resources Department?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I don't know if it would be under HR or whoever -- a discussion about the
directors retreat. It's here. And maybe a clarification of how it -- is it based on -- is it
only used when someone is going to be staying the night , other than their home or
when they are going to be away from where ever their usual place is?
Lavoie: So, apologize, the question is --
Palmer: When does per diem come into effect?
Lavoie: Per travel policy per diems are used when you are away from your facility or
house overnight.
Palmer: Overnight. Okay.
Lavoie: Verify. Crystal, is that correct?
Ritchie: Yes.
Lavoie: Thank you.
Palmer: Then Madam Mayor. We have had kind of back and forth discussion and e-
mail about the directors retreat and I -- I would just like to see that -- a few more of the --
I mean it's pretty close by, but even more -- a little more local to be able to avoid lodging
and per diem for that then.
De Weerd: Well, I -- had responded at the total cost for the directors retreat for two and
a half days was 1,500 dollars and that equated to 22 dollars a person for lodging for
those nights. The value is -- was discussed in -- in the e-mails that we had going back
and forth, but it's -- it's a best practice certainly in -- in both public and private and -- and
having an off-site discussion and giving an environment for some of those m ore difficult
discussions and it's also team building. We have looked at in the area venues that are
much more expensive than that and it -- because of the value that it gives to the team
and discussion -- discussing items of a policy of budget, of strategic planning and other
topics that -- that are identified by the team of wanting a deeper dive into , I think 1,500
dollars of value goes a long way in that and that's for 11 people.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe -- maybe a clarification, then, maybe I missed it in the e-mail. If I'm
hearing correctly, it's 1,500 dollars for the retreat. Why -- why such a higher amount
requested in the budget? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. But the
numbers that are in here are a lot higher than 1,500 dollars.
De Weerd: I don't know.
Palmer: Where was it at?
Cavener: It's in the HR. Sorry, Madam Mayor. What I see here is I see a thousand
dollars requested for a speaker, 125 dollars for the per diem, 1,200 dollars for lodging.
And that's in HR.
De Weerd: As I put in the e-mail, it was 127 dollars per diem and 250 dollars in total for
lodging. So, I -- I don't know what is -- do you want to speak to what's in your budget? I
will try and find it as well. Yeah. I don't know about the speaker or the lodging and that
-- where that came from. Oh.
Ritchie: So, I think there is an error in our budget.
De Weerd: Okay.
Ritchie: And that's what it is. And so thank you very much. We have gone through this
many times and we built that off of previous templates that we have had and, to be
honest with you, there is no intent for us to bring in a speaker for the Mayor's retreat or
the directors -- the Mayor's retreat and the directors retreat. So, to be honest with you, I
think that that is an error on my part in failing to remove that from a previous template
that I used to have consistency in the budget . I apologize for not catching that before
today, but thank you very much. In addition to that that would also include the lodging.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: But there is a lodging amount of around 250.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, did we need a motion or are we assuming we are just pulling that because
it wasn't supposed to be in here? I missed that part.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: I think we can reverse those out.
Ritchie: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Great.
De Weerd: Any other items? Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Council Members, any other questions for Human Resources
Department? If not, we will move onto your Information Technology Department. So, if
you wouldn't mind going to that tab in your budget book. May as well get the discussion
with --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just a comment. IT has an item in here that's unfunded and, again, I can -- I
can barely spell Information Technology, let alone have a full grasp of all the things that
that department accomplishes. I think it's easy for us to just assume IT is kind of this
large umbrella. There is a lot of independent work that is going on that our citizens
benefit from. So, we are -- with this year's budget that we have got these kind of couple
items in here that are in our budget book that are not funded and I notice this year's
budget kind of deviated from years past, but I'm one that is supportive of allowing IT to -
- to have the right office layout to meet their needs . In years past the Council has
approved remodels for almost every department in the city to meet their business
needs. As a director, as a manager, Dave's advocating for what he thinks is important
for his business operations and where -- this year's budget is just different. I think that if
-- if it was worthy of being included in the budget as presented, then, all the unfunded
items should at least begin as funded and we can have the discussion about it if it
doesn't make sense, but in this particular case I'm supportive of including it as a funded
item within the budget.
De Weerd: I guess I will comment to that is many of our offices are -- our department
have asked for hard walled offices and they haven't received it. This was withdrawn or
unfunded because it was inconsistent was decisions that were made to every other
department. The City Hall was designed as a cubicle environment and, again, if it's a
policy decision to -- to change that certainly you're going to have more request s for hard
wall offices. So, this was in keeping with what decisions had been made with several
other departments and that's why it was unfounded.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, to clarify -- for clarification then. Why is this one making it to
our budget book, then, and the others have not?
De Weerd: I have no idea.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: Madam Mayor or a question for Finance. It's your budget. Why -- and that's
a much bigger question. I guess, Todd, what -- how come -- I'm not trying to come
across as putting my foot in my mouth, but if -- one, why is this in here if it's unfunded.
Two, why are we putting our Mayor in a position where she can't answer the question as
to why something is unfunded and in her budget.
De Weerd: Well, I can the question of why it's not funded, why it was listed in the book
as unfunded -- I don't know why it's in -- still in there, because we had this discussion a
year ago, so --
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, we listed this one along with -- if you
scroll down a little bit you will see another city item that was unfunded. The mobile
application --
Cavener: Uh-huh.
Lavoie: -- was listed on your summary. Finance has provided you those two items as
unfunded to show that we have discussed the items in our executive side of life . We
decided that those two were not unfunded -- or those two would go unfunded in the
budget that we proposed to you today -- as proposed to you as more of a transparency
communication tool to you to show you that we have discussed this budget and these
two items made the unfunded list. Last year we presented a much larger list. Last year
we did not have that much of a list. So, we left it as -- on this document, instead of
submitting a separate document that we did last year for just two items. So, the
approach that we took this year was a little bit different than last year. Instead of
providing a supplemental document for what's called unfunded list, we just left the two
items on this particular list. We will take the blame for that if it's confusing. We just felt
that less paperwork and just having the two items -- again, we will take the blame for
that miscommunication for you.
Cavener: And, Madam Mayor, no need to apologize. I'm just trying to figure out the --
the why and especially after the Mayor's explanation it even more kind of shined a light
as to why we are including things in here that are -- that are unfunded if it's never -- it
was never considered to be funded in the first place.
Lavoie: Councilman Cavener, this was considered to be funded at one -- this was part
of our overall budget presentation to the Mayor. After many discussions with the
directors and the executive branch, this is where we ended up with a final proposal. So,
we did discuss all items presented to the Mayor.
Cavener: Okay. Great.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: So, I had a couple questions -- well, maybe just one on this anyway. Because
it mentions that the HR is supportive of having offices for managers to engage with
employees and -- and, then, when you mentioned that this is inconsistent with things
that we have done, do we have many situations where we have managers who are in
cubicles, as opposed to offices?
De Weerd: Yes. Many of our managers are.
Palmer: Okay.
De Weerd: And that's what you approved as well for the building department. All of
their supervisors are in cubicles.
Cavener: And, Madam Mayor, maybe get Crystal up here just for clarification and for
us. I think Councilman Palmer asked about managers. Are you talking about
supervisors? One and the same? Two different words? There is no difference
between a manager and a supervisor? Sorry. Just want to make sure that we are
consistent with what we are all understanding, so there is no future confusion.
Ritchie: Council Member Palmer -- or Council Member Cavener -- I think there were
joint questions there, so I want to direct them as appropriate. To echo the Mayor's
comments, we do have supervisor positions. We do have manager positions. The
manager positions tend to be more your senior managers and the senior management
within individual departments. We do have supervisors that are in nonhard walled
cubicle work areas. Departments have the ability to place certain managers within that
as well, as long as that department can support both conference rooms, a separate
location for employee discussions, and, then, in addition to that we do have senior
managers that do have the hard walled offices in accordance to the original layout that
was presented when the building was established. So, we do have. The two positions
are separate, but we do have supervisors and a few managers that are actually in a
cubicle environment with the ability to have private conversations in conference rooms.
Cavener: Okay. Madam Mayor, just for clarification then. If you're a supervisor you
work out in a cube or in some cases a few managers also work out of a cube, but if you
are a senior manager or director, obviously, then, you have a hard walled office.
Ritchie: That's the general guidelines that I'm aware of. Each individual department
director establishes the work location of each of their staff based on the development
design of their departments for work locations currently.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Can I ask Dave a question? Madam Mayor, Dave, so thanks for all that
information. So, I feel like, yeah, we have established that the -- that this would be
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
inconsistent with practice. Dave, is there a facet of this person's job that would make it
so that an exception should be made that -- that providing an office would provide much
better productivity or level of performance of the job necessary?
Tiede: At this point I feel like while it would be optimal to have an office, the person in
the position can function with the option -- the alternative options that we have.
Palmer: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Anything further? Thank you. Any further questions for Dave? Okay.
Lavoie: The next department, going alphabetical, should be the Legal Department
within your budget book.
Cavener: We may need to take a break. I got lots of questions.
Lavoie: For Legal?
Milam: He's lying.
Lavoie: We will get Bill down here. Let's go, Bill. If you go to your budget book for the
Legal Department, any discussions or questions about what we submitted there? I see
and hear no questions for the Legal Department, so we will consider that department
good. Following the list that would put us to the Mayor's Department next. So, if you
wouldn't mind rotating to the Mayor's tab.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: My only question was in regard to the mobile -- what do we call it? The mobile
application, but it's unfunded, so -- it's in unfunded, so no more questions I guess.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Well, I personally don't find that it's acceptable for the Mayor to decline
reimbursement for herself. So, she -- she uses her phone for city business probably 18
hours a day and I think that we have a reimbursement policy and it should be --
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam, I appreciate that, but I did ask staff as of the end of May to not
take reimbursement -- not for any other reason that I don't want it.
Milam: That's silly, Madam Mayor. But it's your choice.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Bernt: I would agree with -- Madam Mayor, I would agree with -- with Council Woman
Milam. I mean it's your choice, obviously. We are not going to be able to see you -- we
are not going to tell you what to do, but at the same time I think that it's appropriate -- I
mean -- I mean I run a business and when I'm on vacation or we are -- you know, when
I'm driving and I stop for lunch or if I'm out on the job site, you know, people are always
wanting to communicate with me and as the CEO of a company you should have the
ability to be able to communicate with that person regardless of where you're at. So,
just my thought process. I would agree with Council Woman.
De Weerd: Well, I think I was in an ATV when I talked to Sue Brady a couple weekends
ago, but I like my personal cell. I don't want it to have a relationship with the city and
this came before any budget discussion. So, it -- it just was a choice I made. But I
appreciate that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, appreciate your comments. I guess I'm -- I bet this is one we
would all be unanimous on, that we -- I think it's entirely inappropriate for all employees
that as a facet of their job if they need access to a -- to a phone that our policy works
that it's either provided with a city phone or if you want to bring your own device that we
reimburse you at the appropriate amount. So, everyone has their own reasons for
wanting -- we can't force you to do it, but I think what I heard from Council Member
Milam and Bernt, is entirely correct, is that, you know, we don't want the Mayor to feel
like that if you can't get access to the same benefits that we would offer everyone of our
other employees, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernt: So, what is it going to be?
Milam: Do we need a motion to --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: And don't need to get this thing going to a discussion. We talked about this
last month, about, obviously, how proud I am of the success that MYAC has had in the
resulting sponsorships that have come as a result of that. In light of that I think it's
entirely appropriate to use -- utilize those sponsor dollars to send the youth to NLC or
whatever you and your staff think is the most appropriate learning opportunity for our
youth. If you think that we need to remove those costs from the General Fund and let
sponsorship dollars take care of it.
De Weerd: Just to respond, sponsorship dollars are -- are not taken for granted or
forgiven or -- forgiven -- or a given and, you know, the -- the MYAC and -- and certainly
myself and Jodi are -- are dedicated to getting business investment in our -- our youth,
but as Councilman Bird, when he proposed kind of a 50-50 -- he wanted to cover up to
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
-- to six members and their costs and those that went in addition to that and we have I
think 13 on executive committee that we fund raise for the rest, he saw that as an
investment and so that is why your budgets included that and with a notice to our
executive officers that this is -- this is the investment for -- for six and those over and
above that we fund raise for. Some of them fund raise, some of them had personal
investments of their own, because they didn't feel comfortable closing the gap of what
Jodi and I were able to do and so it is up to Council. They -- they did come and give a
report following their trip to DC and what they learned , what they thought was relevant
to bring back to the community and what they have done since then in putting that to
action and we responded to the questions. They hoped to show the value of your
investment in -- in their leadership development, so --
Milam: But --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Madam Mayor. So, I have a question I guess just -- are you -- so, there are 13
kids and you're paying for six and the rest are fundraising for -- I guess I would be more
comfortable -- I don't mind helping the kids if they are -- where ever they want to go in
their -- in their learning and -- but I guess the way that I would see it be more effective
would be to pay for up to 50 percent for each of them and the rest needs to be
fundraised or paid for by their parents or themselves. So, I don't think we should pay a
hundred percent for any kid to go, but that we can match up to 50 percent and they
need to do fundraising and get, hopefully, more than 50 percent match up to and I think
I would feel more comfortable with it. Appropriate it that way than we pay for six kids
and the other six kids can fund raise.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: This was probably the hardest thing for me in the budget, honestly, because, you
know, I don't think there is a person in his body that -- that -- well, I think every person in
this body has a high regard for MYAC and everything that MYAC brings to our
community. I mean I have strongly advocated for people that I know that kiddos who
live in Meridian to be a part of this fantastic program. I think it's awesome. I struggle
with using taxpayer dollars, though, to -- to send kiddos back east and it's not a
referendum against MYAC by any means, I -- this is a value that this conference brings
to me to the community, because it's obvious that it brings a ton of value to the
community and there is not one single person in his body that would disagree with that,
I promise you. But I struggle with it, because I just don't believe this is something that
the city should pay for and if I have to write out a check or if you have to call other
people to write out a check, I think this is the easiest ask out of any -- out of -- out of
anything that you ask for as sponsorships for anything you do. You would be able to get
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
enough funds in less than five minutes to -- to -- and I would be first in line with check
available to pay for any one of these kids to go back east. I just don't think that it's
something that -- that -- that our taxpayers should -- should -- should be responsible for.
And I know the amount is small in comparison, but it's just -- I have grappled with it, I
have talked to people about it, I have argued with my wife about it. But at the end of the
day it's just not -- I just don't think it's something that the taxpayers should -- it should be
handled through private private -- private funds.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Personally have -- I mean when I was in high school I -- I see the value of
taking those trips out of Idaho, because I have done it. I went to New York, to Boston,
to London, to Paris, to New Zealand and in every one of those cases it's either because
I mowed a heck of a lot of lawns, pulled a lot of weeds, or I got other people to pay for it.
Never was there any tax dollar used. But I see huge value, having spent so me time in
DC, in sending our youth out there to see it in a short period of time -- hopefully not for a
long time. It's bad -- bad for the soul to spend a lot of time in DC, but in a short period
of time the value of spending a couple of days in DC is hu ge. So, that's why I donated
some money to make sure, a couple years ago, that they could. I -- Joe Palmer doesn't
write checks to governments for anything he doesn't have to, but he wrote a 500 dollar
check to help send these guys to DC. I'm more than happy to keep doing it and to -- to
find other people to do it. So, what is the most appropriate ways to take this out of the
budget and, then, come with a budget amendment for spending authority for what's
raised or leave it, but -- either way I -- I only feel comfortable authorizing spending
authority for outside dollars that are raised for it, rather spending tax dollars that I'm sure
we are all committed to making sure that it's funded at whatever level it needs to be, but
with some extra effort to find some other people willing.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: And I will -- I will be the biggest recruiter you have for the funds. I will be on it
like a hobo on a ham sandwich. I will -- I will -- I will do whatever you ask me to do. I
will absolutely one hundred percent go out and -- I just don't think that -- well, I don't
need to regurgitate what I said, but I -- when you say jump I say how high on this issue.
Cavener: Is that a motion?
Simison: Madam Mayor, Council, if I may make a suggestion from -- a couple things.
And maybe this wouldn't be appropriate, but the other thing that MYAC raises funds for
is the Treasure Valley Youth Safety Summit. That is something that you have 100 to
150 kids here in the valley that attend that. It is local. And they have also added in the
fundraising for the Middle School this year. That is something they also raise funds for
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
through -- or we get sponsorships for. Is that something the city would consider funding
to really meet that burden of fundraising for that, in lieu of the travel? Because that
does have a -- it's a lot of other students in the youth -- in community.
De Weerd: The fundraising for MYAC does benefit others. The Safety Summit is just
one of those. And 50 percent is I think very reasonable and -- and that's really what the
intent was in -- in -- last year, but we didn't have as many go. So, I do like that
approach. But I -- you know, these -- these kids start -- they -- they meet all summer.
They meet weekly during the school year. They put a lot of time and this is a leadership
development for them. It is also something they present on what they are doing. They -
- what they are doing is recognized on the national level and they bring a lot back from
the teams they network with and the elected officials that they meet at those and they
were very proudly to -- to talk about in their wrap up is their meeting even with the
Congressional offices that -- that will agree to meet with them. So, this -- this is one
topic of several that -- of what they do that you don't see, because they will fund raise
for it and you will see it in the budget enhancement, but I included it in my budget,
because I felt it was an investment in our youth that will multiply and I can guarantee
you, even if you fund the 50 percent, I will be calling on Mr. Bernt and Mr. Palmer to -- to
help with the fundraising efforts.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: There we go. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think it's important to take a
couple things into account. This isn't a referendum on -- on MYAC at all. I think that
this discussion is a result of their hard work. Recognizing that nine years ago I would
be sitting there with Mr. Simison advocating that we spend as many dollars as we can,
because we want to send as many youth as possible. But when you look at it from the
-- because of their success -- and private issue is taking notes because of this Council's
-- past Council's investment in MYAC they are, you know, the cream of above the cream
and sponsors writing a big check to them because of the great work that we are doing.
Essentially past Council's action to invest is now paying dividends and so it's
appropriate to me to say, okay, Council invested, MYAC is now on a whole other level.
They are recruiting dollars and have companies coming to them -- now is the
appropriate time for us to take those city dollars and let's find another place to invest
them where we can grow, instead of continuing to allocate more and more dollars. So,
I'm supportive of removing those dollars out. I think it is a phenomenal opportunity for
our youth to go to DC, to host the Youth Safety Summit. But, likewise, it is a great
opportunity for them to work as a team to fund raise on their own and to first not train
them that government is going to always cut the big check for you to be able to do what
you want to do. So, I guess unless there are any other comments, I will make a motion
that we remove the travel dollars associated with MYAC, as well as the per diem and
the lodging amount.
Palmer: Second.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, a little bit redundant, because I'm going to support leaving it in the budget.
However, I would like there to be some simulation about the 50 percent per kid, which
means if you have less kids that go you don't spend it all. It doesn't -- it's not -- you
don't have to spend it just because it's in the budget for that purpose and think it -- that
the kids need to have some skin in the game and so each kid needs to raise 50 percent
for them self or as a group, but I do -- I don't have a problem with us spending it, I just
hope that we don't spend it all and that they can fund raise for most of it. But I would
like to see them continue to be able to go on these -- go to DC and get the experience
that they do, because I think it's been very exciting for them and they do learn a lot to
bring back to our city.
De Weerd: Do you have a substitute motion?
Milam: Do I need a substitute motion? I can vote a gainst that.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Milam: I guess I could.
De Weerd: I think certainly that could -- we could definitely implement that and -- and
bring it back in in numbers up to 50 and, hopefully, we -- between the -- the two
gentlemen on either side of me we could fund one hundred percent. At least that gives
us a basis. Any further discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think if -- you know, with the sales pitch that -- it's something that tax dollars
were used to get going, now it's rolling, it's out, we need help and I feel like with that
message, you know, in the fundraising effort, that we may be in a position where we can
send more kids than if we keep subsidizing it. You know, if nothing else it helps
motivate not only MYAC, myself, you know, others to make sure it happens and make
sure it gets used.
De Weerd: I hope it's just motivation in and of itself that you could raise a hundred
percent.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I'm always more motivated for feel -- feel good and are good
things if I'm doing it voluntarily than if I was compelled because I own some property.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: And I'm a no.
MOTION FAILED: THREE AYES. THREE NAYS. MAYOR NAY.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Although we didn't go the route of a substitute motion, I agree with
Councilman Milam, I would like to see the fundraising happen and a hundred percent of
it would be great and we can reevaluate this next year. But I think that it's real important
that we continue to show MYAC our support and it is already fundraising for other items,
that just completely removing it might be more of a disincentive, a little bit
overwhelming, and so I think leaving the funds in there and encouraging them and
helping them fund raise their 50 percent is a great way to go.
De Weerd: Well, I will be committed to that and -- and I appreciate the -- the two on
either -- so each on either side of me for joining our fundraising team . Go team.
Bernt: Save money.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Absolutely. Mr. Cavener, do you want to join our team, too?
Cavener: I'm always happy to join. I'm proud to serve on this team and always happy
to help however I may. Clarifying question, Madam Mayor, just related to MYAC. Can
you educate the Council about how many advisors MYAC has now? I understand there
is more. And how many of them -- how many city employees as part of their job
capacity are also an advisor with MYAC? I think I know that number, but I don't want to
make an assumption.
De Weerd: We have in government affairs it's myself and one other that's not a city
employee.
Cavener: Okay.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: In community service I think that's Macey Snelson is the main advisor.
She's not a city employee. And we do have a city employee that comes on occasion
when she can and -- and in the Teen Activities is -- is Renee White from the Parks
Department.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. Then just for clarification, five advisors total, not counting Jodi.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Six counting Jodi. Four city employees, two are not. Is that accurate?
De Weerd: Well, yeah, but -- kind of. When they are available, yes.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: Any -- any other questions? And even though you haven't asked about my
travel, I do have a reduction of 1,328 in my travel. It's seventy dollars and fifty-seven
two hundred, fifty-seven two oh two, a hundred and thirty, fifty-seven, two oh three, a
thousand and fifty-seven two oh four. A hundred and twenty-eight. And I get that to
you.
Lavoie: Any other questions for the Mayor's Department? I see none. So, we will call
the Mayor's Department good. Given that's the time, Mayor, I suggest maybe lunch. I
will let you pick the time.
De Weerd: Are we okay with a working lunch? We will take 15 minutes to go grab what
you would like and -- does anyone --
Tiede: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Dave.
Tiede: These microphones will not survive a full day if we don't charge them for about
an hour, so if you guys can wrap up in the next hour, then, we will probably be okay.
But if you cannot, then, we will need to take an hour break.
De Weerd: Can we charge them for 30 minutes and maybe last a couple hours?
Tiede: No. They might last a couple hours.
De Weerd: Okay. We will reconvene at 12:30 then.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Borton: Real quick some comments for -- to share with Finance, I just wanted to give
spitball some thoughts. VRT, interesting. Fiscal growth, training, Peak, sunshade,
squirrel, three percent, deficiency and budget.
Lavoie: Thank you, Joe. Appreciate that.
(Recess: 12:39 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting back to order and if we get
everyone settled. Okay. Fire is up next. Okay. Any questions regarding the Fire
Department's budget? Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I think my questions -- I understand maybe why it's in the budget, but whether it
needs to stay in the budget, but some maintenance for Station 6 -- 7. Station 6.
Anyway --
De Weerd: I think there was a note on that.
Milam: Uh?
De Weerd: Didn't I see a note that Finance said, oh, we missed that?
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam. Mayor, you are correct. It was brought to
our attention that we had Station 6 in there. It's on the screen right now for 52,000
dollars. The budget book was presented to you with anticipation that the facility would
be open, but it was noted to us that based on the most current estimation Station 6 will
not be in operation as of October or September 2019 . That being a sound statement,
so it was brought to our attention that the 52,020 dollars we will remove from the
budget, because Station 6 we do not anticipate being open, but we had the anticipation
of it being open. So, that is a good find and we are removing it from your budget.
Milam: Thank you.
Lavoie: Thank you.
De Weerd: So, Todd, do any of those costs consider having the engine in operation
effective in --
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, just to Mark here -- those are the line items that we are
discussing and acknowledge if it has to do with Station 6 engine.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Council, the only item that I see that we would leave in place
is the fuel that has a budget of 5,950. We could cut that in half based on the June 21st
timeline that we have discussed collectively. So, that budget number on fuels could be
cut in half. That would reflect the six months that Engine 36 would be in operation.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Air van. Let's talk about your air van. How critical is replacing that this year. It's
for 100,000 dollars.
Niemeyer: So, that -- Councilman Milam, that's been in CIP now for about nine years as
a replacement. This is what allows us to get extra air oxygen bottles out to the fire
scene. That is a very old apparatus that we don't even use right now, because of its
unsafe condition. It should have probably gone long before this, but this is the timing of
which was in the CIP and brought forward. So, right now we are not utilizing it, simply
due to its age and its condition.
Milam: What are you using?
Niemeyer: We either call mutual aid. We have Caldwell, Star and Boise that have a
portable air compressor that they can come out and fill bottles with . So, we are calling
our neighbors in to come and assist us.
Milam: Madam Mayor, follow up. About how often is that vehicle or m utual aid needed?
Niemeyer: I would have to get into average. Anecdotally probably once a month.
Milam: Madam Mayor, follow up.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Milam: So, I'm assuming that eight hundred, hundred thousand dollars isn't for the
vehicle, but it's for what type of equipment -- how is this equipped and what does that
look like?
Niemeyer: So, it's going to be -- the hundred thousand dollars would be the
replacement for the vehicle that would carry the air canisters. Also rehab equipment.
So, when we rehab on a fire we set up portable tents if we need to from the sun, et
cetera, the Gatorade bottles for Gatorade, all that. We anticipate it might come in lower
than that, but that is all the state did on what we are going to replace it with. We
anticipated replacing it with a pickup truck with a pull out slider tray that would carry all
the needed equipment.
De Weerd: Other questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: Some of this stuff it's going to cost us more to talk about than to deal with it.
The part-time receptionist that had the 300 dollars was for the clothing. In your
response you had mentioned that that could be dropped, 150 for the first year, 75
ongoing instead of 300 up there and 75 ongoing.
Niemeyer: Uh-huh.
Palmer: Who or whenever you want to change that. And, then, under the cell phone
expense where it had a thousand listed for the chargers and cases, and 50 dollars a
device, it made sense to drop that 35 each for those 20 devices. And, then, kind of
continuing on the -- what's the time priority, I would like to remove the Clown Camp,
understanding that there is a similar program on the Texas Laughs Last program that --
that one seemed to make more sense to me to maintain that one and that it's kind of the
same thing of being able to -- to learn the best way to communicate with third graders,
while removing the how to be a clown aspect of the Clown Camp version. So, whether
that was transition to completely Texas Laughs or just removing Clown Camp and
maintaining the current plan with Taxus Laughs would be my preference. Keep going or
should I stop there?
Cavener: I'm listening.
Palmer: And, then, the other thing I -- moving the part-time -- this is set for public
education -- to full time. Given the lack of funds I wanted to hold off on that for at least
this year and maintain that as a part-time position. That's all for me.
Niemeyer: Would you like me to respond to those?
De Weerd: Please.
Niemeyer: So, in talking about Pam -- and Pam is here if you want more information
about Clown Camp or Texas Laughs. We have -- we hired, as you know, a part-time
pub ed assistant, Herb Griffin. Herb comes to us as a retired deputy chief of prevention,
so he knows that world. However, he has not been to Clown Camp and he is someone
that we would tag to participate in this. As I talk to Pam about Clown Camp -- and I
know the title sometimes is -- is a little challenging, but it is what it is. That's what it's
called. This is no different than the continuing type education we offer for firefighters,
meaning what do you need to do your job well and as I talked to Pam about how do you
engage as a clown, prevention Pam, and how do you engage with third graders and
how does that clown costume benefit the education that goes on to third graders. As
you know teaching third graders, if you have ever taught third graders -- I had a third
grade son and daughter, so I tried to teach them -- it's very difficult. My thought was
why do you need to go to camp to learn how to be a clown and, then, I thought about
myself. If you put me in a clown costume today and asked me to go teach third graders,
I would be the most boring, uneducating person in Meridian, because I would feel
uncomfortable, have no idea how to get into character on that kind of stuff. I don't dress
up for Halloween and so how do you learn how to do that, how do you learn how to get
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
into that character and to provide the best education you can to third graders. Why are
-- why are third graders important? It's that age that we have identified through stu dies,
through a lot of smarter people than us that that's an age where you can influence and
you can influence greatly. So, I understand the taxpayer perspective. As I mentioned to
Councilman Palmer I think there is another perspective . If you talk to the third graders
that have had that education, you talk to the teachers that have seen that education roll
out and you talk to the parents who have also seen that education , they would probably
say there is great value in it. So, the one person we have in the budget for Clown Camp
who would our part-time public education assistant, who would actually go -- be going
and doing some of these presentations. Just food for thought as you consider that --
that issue.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Whatever you want, Tammy. You're running the meeting.
De Weerd: I always choose Genesis, so I will choose you this time. How about that?
Cavener: Fair enough. I would have no problem yielding to Council Member Milam.
Thank you, Madam Mayor. Comment and then -- I think maybe more just some
comments. One, I think that this process where we have had departments up to
present the budget and as Council sits here and peppers directors with questions that
need clarification, it works to kind of establish, but to me the real value is these follow-
up conversation that I know that many us as Council Members have been having with
different directors. When I first looked at the budget I, like a lot of us, I said Clown
Camp and I put the record on but the record wanted to skip, because like why are we --
why are we paying for Clown Camp and kind of to the point that -- that the chief talked
about is the importance of having conversations with the department, with the staff, with
those in our community has changed my mind on it. I think that -- well, it's one that I
think a lot of our taxpayers will look at it and have the same response. Our leaders
have done a good job of articulating the why. Furthermore, I was not, when we first got
this budget, completely on board with making this part-time pub ed a full-time position
and -- and I was more supportive of -- of making the -- the part-time receptionist person.
But, again, after talking to leadership and those in our communities that this part-time to
a full-time pub ed, they are the ones that are out engaging our citizens and are
engaging and working with our kids and we as a body talk a lot about ROI and it's not to
say that we don't get a tremendous ROI from administrative and support staff . We do.
But I often look at these questions, if we only had one dollar where should that dollar go
and if we only had one dollar I'm -- I'm supportive of spending that dollar to have our
public education engage our young people, they do so much with so little and I think
that we would get a high ROI by -- by having a secondary public education person.
Council Member Palmer, thank you, you have passed along an e-mail correspondence
between you and the chief, which I think directs or provides some great context that
could be implemented in the budget before we -- we vote on it after the public hearing. I
would encourage -- asked maybe to forward that on to -- to Todd and they can make the
necessary corrections or adjustments based on -- on the feedback from the chief . In
light of that, though, because we are facing a three percent increase and, again, my
desire to curb that to as little as possible, I'm more supportive of including the pub ed
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
position as a full time, but I'm not there on -- on adding the part-time receptionist piece.
I think that that's something that I would feel more comfortable pulling out of this year's
budget, with the acknowledgement that it will be back next year for -- for consideration
at that time.
Niemeyer: I could reply to that one just for consideration. And, Councilman Cavener,
you and I talked about this yesterday as well. The part-time receptionist -- that has
been a full-time request for the last two years based on need and currently Emily
Stroud, who is our records clerk with a records clerk job description -- and I heard the
discussion earlier about records and the challenge with those -- I will tell you downstairs
in our basement we have boxes of records that need to go through -- be gone through.
We have not been able to get Emily to get to her full-time job, because she is spending
increased time at the front desk answering phones, greeting the public, doing truly what
receptionist's duties would do. We brought it forward this year as a full time through the
process of the executive team level, we dropped it to part time to at least get some of
that effort that she needs to do on her books. So, appreciate where this Council will go.
I just wanted to provide that --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I have a few things. One question and a couple of clarifications. First of all,
third grade is the best grade for teachers. I volunteer every year in that and that is my
favorite as far as their response. But you do have two listed in the budget for Clown
Camp. You have got one for Texas Laughs, you have got two for Clown Camp, so I
wanted to clarify that and -- but my question is since we are questioning directors'
retreats, is it proper to question your command retreat?
Niemeyer: Uh-huh.
Milam: Because that's a lot -- a much bigger price tab on it than the director's retreat.
Niemeyer: Yeah. So, similar to a discussion with the directors retreat, we do this
annually for the command staff. We have utilized that retreat to set the following year's
tactical priorities. We use that to develop our strategic plan when we did that five years
ago. Since that time we use that how -- it's come together. We white board, we put
Post-It notes all over the place. We talk about what are our priorities for the following
years. That's what our -- our command staff retreat has been utilized to do. We also
look and engage -- most years we bring up the leadership of the union as well. That
gives us an opportunity to continue that labor-management relationship and we talk
about issues that are facing the line and how we can address those properly in the over
the next 12 months and it's been very productive. We have had a lot of solid work come
out of it that has led to plans for the following 12 months.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Lavoie: Well, Madam Mayor, we heard a handful -- couple of enhancements that were
up for discussion. Points were brought up about the designs and for us on the budget
side, like we have done in the passed, would you, Council, be willing to, quote, unquote,
vote for -- for the items that you brought up? So, the first one that was brought up I
think by Mr. Cavener -- and I will hand it over to you, he has to make the motions. And
so everything needs to get closer to this particular function.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I'm going to move that we remove the part-time receptionist admin one
enhancement from the budget. Some of the reasons that I articulated earlier during my
comment period. In addition to at no doubt the importance of the position being able to
be worked through the ever growing log of records. I think that that's important and I
talked on that earlier. I think that we need as a city maybe to take a different look at
how we manage and handle records citywide and how that impacts if it's -- that burden
needs to be falling on each particular department to manage theirs separately or maybe
there isn't a better approach to managing records as a whole. Because of the -- what I
see is less than an emerging and mission critical nature of the position and, again, my
desire to try to reduce that taxpayer liability, I would move that we remove that position.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Discussion from Council? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Rather than making a motion to remove Clown Camp, I don't think there is
support for it anyway, but I'm sure they got the notes that it's only going to be one, so
we can plan for that. There was -- one of their useful pieces of information the other
day when the Rural Fire District prepared their budget to propose to the public on their
side they did plan for 360,000 dollars as a one time, but it is a continuatio n of support
for the wages of the Station 6 firefighters to help -- yeah, but to continue into '19 to help
kind of offset that for another year, to not maybe -- not a whole year, just another portion
of it, since they are not going to be in their station yet and ready to go, so I don't know
when the time to plan for that is -- until they -- they do it and it's just less cost that we
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
end up spending, that we budget for it as if it won't happen or how that works, but -- I
thought you might want to all know that.
Cavener: That's great.
Niemeyer: Just to add to that -- and I advised Councilman Palmer this last night -- we
do have three commissioners -- one of the commissioners did call me after the
publication budget was presented. Like the city they have a capital improvement plan
for capital improvements that they need to purchase, the brus h trucks, water tender.
His question to me was -- he believed that we need to have a discussion as a
commission -- or the commissioners need to have a discussion on taking that money
and dividing it for funding for the Station 6 staff versus putting that into their capital
improvement fund. So, it has been drafted up for publication currently under their
personnel. They are a little bit different as a district, they have A, B and C budgets, so A
personnel, B operating and C capital. So, they did publish that under the personnel
budget. Their budget hearing is August -- second Monday in August where they will
finalize their budget. So, just -- that was a discussion that was presented by the
treasurer. Originally it was the personnel budget. There is one commissioner that
would like to have the discussion on does that go into the capital improvement fund.
So, just -- just so you're aware of that. I know I spoke with Todd about this and kind of
theories and until that money is actually in the city hands one way or the other, it's -- it's
a concept out there that potentially is coming, but want to make sure that the agreement
is done and there is some legal documents I'm sure that we would have to be done as
well.
De Weerd: So, we can't count on the -- the income until it's -- it's here and -- and -- and
that body actually votes on it, but we probably would know prior to the public hearing.
Palmer: Prior to ours?
De Weerd: Prior to ours.
Lavoie: The 21st of August.
Niemeyer: Yes, you will know in -- second Monday of August.
Palmer: Perfect.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further on Fire or -- oh, sorry.
Lavoie: No. Madam Mayor, Council, can we add the part-time -- I think -- Mr. Palmer, I
think you brought up the public -- part-time public ed. Was that a concern that you
wanted to acknowledge or move on. It's up to you.
Palmer: I'm going to see if anybody else has any interest in pulling it then. It's not
worth going through the motion I don't think.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Milam: Madam Mayor? I guess I have a question about it. So, you say the half-time
position is filled now? Because this -- the request is for a full-time, because we can't fill
a half-time. Now you have got the position filled and the retired person, does he even
want to work full-time and is it still necessary, because the reasoning for the
enhancement is because you just couldn't fill the half time?
Niemeyer: Yeah. So, when we started developing our budget we didn't have it filled.
We have it filled now. He is retired, but when he came and accepted the position we
said at some point this position will need to go to full time, are you okay with that and he
said absolutely. The need is beyond just the filling of it. I will give you some numbers
and certainly Pam can chime in if you have more questions, but -- but the focus areas
that pub ed has -- we talked about the early childhood education, the school tours. Our
CPR program has continued to thrive and grow and that's basically demand and request
from our citizens in our community. We were doing CPR classes here at City Hall once
a month. Pam is now getting requests to go out to businesses in Meridian to make sure
that they are trained in CPR -- hands-only CPR. She just got done doing Scentsy in
which we trained 650 people working in Meridian on hands-only CPR. The benefit to
that is -- and I can say this, I have been a medic for 25 plus years. I have all kinds of
cool stuff in paramedic. I have drugs, I have electricity, I have all kinds of cool stuff . If
we don't have good early CPR we are going to be ineffective in saving lives. So, truly
the outreach on CPR is a benefit to the global picture to the community and so with
those increased requests for participation in CPR classes that's more workload for
them. Fire Prevention Month in October, the o riginal request from Pam from a
budgetary standpoint is can you, please, give me some full-time staff for four months, so
that I can prepare and get through Fire Prevention Month. There is another program
that we want to implement with our CPR -- our program that Pam and I talked about, it's
called Stop The Bleed. It's a life saving education that we can tie to our CPR program.
It has great benefit to our community and our citizens. That's more workload. So, the
full-time need is there based on the numbers and the interaction that pub ed is doing in
our community and a lot of that comes from their request. The hard part about
prevention -- I mentioned this to you all in previous presentations -- anecdotally I can tell
you we are saving lives and we are preventing fires. Numbers wise, data wise, it's
almost impossible to gather that on a prevention standpoint, because the fire never
happened or the emergency never happened, but we know education works.
De Weerd: Chief, I think you can show -- and it's been shown across the nation that
where there hasn't been a prevention program and that has been instituted, the number
of incidents have gone down, because you're being proactive. So, I guess we can
almost reverse that and say where prevention didn't occur, once it was introduced there
was a reduction.
Niemeyer: Yeah. For sure.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mr. Cameron.
Cavener: Just a comment and don't -- and I -- it's not my role to direct staff, but I just
think that it's okay to pass along to the pub ed team it is okay to say no from time to
time. We don't want to have our staff feel like that we have to say yes to every request
that comes across our desk. You guys have a great team. I can appreciate the demand
and why our citizens want to improve their skills, but we can also say no.
Niemeyer: And we have. We have had to.
De Weerd: Pam, do you have anything you want to add? And we appreciate you being
here.
Orr: Thank you so much. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think the only thing
that I would like to add is that -- one thing that the chief didn't say was that when we
started this program 13 years ago with just one person, we only had half of the schools
that we currently have now and so the -- the amount of time that we spend in the
schools educating not only the second and the third graders , we have -- the crews take
a win from kindergarten all -- on -- on up to that -- that second grade level. It's just -- it's
just huge. It's just huge. I'm not complaining. I love my job. I'm going to give every --
everything I have got to this, but I can just tell you I have lost two employees. Not just
because this was a part-time job, but because of the amount of work, you know, with
this job. That -- that was the -- that was the killer, right? Both of them loved the city.
They loved the job. They loved the fire department. That wasn't -- that wasn't the
problem. The problem was was the amount of work and the amount of diversity in the
work, right? This isn't just one job, which is not -- we are just not going out and doing
smoke alarms, we are just not going out and teaching CPR, there so much to learn on
this job and, again, please, I am not complaining, not one bit, I love what we do, but the
-- but the amount -- just the sheer amount of work that we put out in trying to mitigate
any kind of emergency, mitigate any kind of loss of life, right? Not only loss of life, but
mitigate post-traumatic stress for our line guys, right, for what they see and for families,
it's huge. It's huge. And you all know that I'm very, very passionate about it, so I -- I just
-- I'm humbled that you would even consider this position going full time, but I can
promise you that when this position goes full time that, you know, you're just going to
see more. You're just going to see more of what we can do in the community, because
there are more things out there. There is Stop The Bleed, for example, this kind of
thing. Like we want to be able to provide support to community to be able to be
educated in that way. So, again, thank you for that. I appreciate it.
De Weerd: And, Pam, maybe it was because you hadn't complained that it took to this
time to make it full time. You have done a yeoman's job and we have asked you to do
more and more and more and I just want to express our appreciation.
Orr: Thank you. And I just want to say one more thing and that's that just now I worked
really hard in trying to get free money, trying to get partnerships, trying to get grants,
trying to, you know, just any amount of money that we can get to purchase even our
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
little silver stickers that we pass out or our red helmets, right? I do not in any way,
shape, or form take the -- I use our budget as if I'm using my own personal budget and I
-- and I don't spend frivolously, right? It's like now if I'm -- if I can't get something for a
good price we are not going to purchase it, you know, when it comes to the l ittle red
hats, things like that, right? So, I'm out there really trying hard to push to take every
dime that we have and every amount of time that we have out there to -- to be
responsible for that public trust and because I truly understand that the community --
you know, they have a lot of trust for us and so I just want ed you to just know -- just
know that.
De Weerd: And we know that.
Niemeyer: She's not passionate at all.
Milam: Right.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Pam -- you don't need to come -- we do really appreciate that about you and
highly respect everything that you do and appreciate it and know that you are pulled in a
million different ways -- directions. The only reason I ask that question is beca use that's
what it says on the form. So, I'm not questioning the fact that you need help, I was only
questioning what was on the form.
Orr: Thank you.
Milam: So, thank you and thank you for your passion.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further for Fire?
Lavoie: Seeing no other questions, so we will invite Parks and Recreation up here.
Meridian Council, if you wouldn't mind going to your Parks and Recreation tab within
your budget book.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Parks and Recreation?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Okay. I love all these ideas, just right now. Start with that. So, I guess we will
go from there. HomeCourt improvements. I think it's important that we solve the issue
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
-- what's the word I'm looking for -- humidity control or whatever -- to be able to avoid
any future destruction or mold or anything, but the actual -- the other improvements, so
that we have the money this year to do it and where it's not something we can use
impact fees for, we have got to General Fund it and we don't have the General Funds
on the bandshell shade, same thing, 121,000. It's a huge pill to swallow when it takes a
tax increase to do it, as well as the Five Mile Creek pathway connection. So, there is an
existing hard surface pedestrian facility in existence. It's not ideal if you got a bunch of
kids that you want to go trucking up there with, but there is a paved pathway with a
raised curb separating it from -- from the street and eventually -- who knows when --
eventually it will be developed and a pathway or whatever -- however we require that
would be installed. Understanding that our conversation on the intent of this is to do it
sooner, because we have no idea when that's going to happen and our understanding is
the owner is not in a hurry. Also understand that the owner is very complicated to -- to
deal with and to work with and to try to get a hold of. So, I am -- I am more open to the
idea if , first, a conversation happens with them as to, okay, here is just -- we haven't had
to spend any money, here is a Google map picture with a hand draw here is what we
are thinking. Before we go ask Council for money are you interested in us participating
on this -- or purchasing this or working towards something and if it's just a no, then,
great, we move on, didn't have to spend any money. If it's a yeah, sweet, you're
wanting to put in a pathway, then, yeah, go find the funds and let's design it and talk
about it. At that point I would say, okay, let's -- and at the same time that conversation
happens is that what are your prospects for selling this thing, is it going to happen
anytime soon, so we don't need to bother, but if it's not working, hang onto it until we get
anything -- everything we want out of it, so if we want to put a pathway I'm open to it. I
just don't want to spend five, ten, 20 thousand dollars to plan something to, then, spend,
as was described, months to get a hold of whoever the owner is or group of owners to,
then, see if they are interested in us moving forward with this. All of this huge, annoying
process that you guys would have to go through to even make it happen to even get a
design, let alone construction, when who knows when it might sell. Somebody might go
develop it and build it anyway. So, that one I would like to remove at least from this
year for that reason and, then, on the pathway trailhead I a hundred percent believe that
we need to participate with ACHD an d get that bridge portion established at the time
that they are going to be building that. That's an enormous cost savings that we
absolutely have to take advantage of now and it's a relatively small amount, 35,000
dollars is the guess and that's based on a little more than what they have asked us for
for similar things in the past; correct?
Siddoway: Yes. Based on our experience with Pine Avenue.
Palmer: Yeah. So, that's -- that's a no brainer to me, but for the rest of it I would say
not this year. That is a fantastic future project that I would look forward to having done,
just, unfortunately, not right now. That's my Parks.
De Weerd: Okay. Other comments, questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Comments. I think that some of Council Member Palmer's recommendations
for items maybe not to be funded with this particular year I tend to agree with. I think
the -- I went back and forth specifically on the shade structure and Steve and I had a
great conversation earlier this week, you know, depending it seems on the -- the time of
year, when we have been talking this particular enhancement I have either been really
in favor, we have got to do this or it's just too much money and for me what it boils down
to -- and we have talked about this a lot, and it's something to think -- is ROI and I just
don't know with all of the use that happens out at that facility, the vast majority of the
time that the events occur are not when the shade structure would benefit and so,
again, if we only got one dollar, I think there is a better places for that one particular
dollar to be spent. I tend to agree, Council Member Palmer, about the -- the bridge --
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener?
Cavener: Yes.
De Weerd: Before you move on do you think that the people aren't using it during that
time of day for a reason? If they use it at different times of the day could it be because
the sun is in their faces and -- oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, Dean. Forgot to turn on -- but do
you think that maybe that lends to actually the -- the usage because of the lack of the
shade?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, great question and it is one that I have -- have wrestled back
and forth and is it worth it if there is one more group? Is it worth it if there is ten more? I
mean to the point you're going to say where is it worth it to have more people take
advantage of that great amenity because of the shade. We have found that the vast
majority of it -- those that use it aren't knowing sincerely in the performance capacity as
a home base for a church event or home base for a fund run or a walk and the question
that you asked, I went and asked people who had been previous users and we talked
about this last month is if the shade was the re would that bring them back and one who
I would think would be a huge stakeholder said no and so to me that -- that also helped
to answer the question. I went from saying, okay, we -- we have got to figure out a way
to find the dollars to do this to, then, asking those that would be the real user and for
them it wasn't compelling enough for them to want to come back and use that facility ,
that there is just further issues that didn't meet their particular needs. I don't doubt that
if we spend 140,000 dollars to put up a tent, that, yes, some other group or organization
is going to use that facility in that time. If we weren't talking about raising taxes, this
would be a much easier conversation , but because we are -- and I think 141,000 dollars
associated with it, that's like a -- like a one percent increase. So, more than a one
percent increase and for me I think it's valuable, I think that we -- our citizens would
benefit. I think organizations would benefit from it, but it's something that I can support
now in light of the three percent property tax increase that's presented to us.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Do you want to hear all the comments on all these or are we going to go
through one at a time and vote?
De Weerd: Probably if there is -- it would be easier to do it one topic at a time.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: So --
Siddoway: If I can respond on shade specifically. Regarding shade, I would -- I
understand the -- the difficulty with the price tag and the price tag is our best guess in
the current climate and we would hope all day long that those bids are going to come
back lower, but I can't -- you know, we are here to present the budget and that we would
anticipate the bids staying within. Having said that, the reason it's in here -- a couple
things. One, we do see it as underutilized and that shade would make a difference.
How much of a difference -- what is the ROI, it's -- we can't -- it's hard to say. But
looking at the numbers we do know that the afternoon is when it is least used. We do
know that we hear from the users that are impacted that it is hot , that it is brutal, that is
difficult to -- to play in the afternoons of the summertime when it is the prime time for --
for usage, because of the conditions out there. We do believe that adding shade would
be a great addition to that amenity and allow us to fully use an amenity -- a much more
expensive structure that has been a hundred percent donated to us. So, we feel like a
small investment will make an impact on -- on an important amenity in that wonderful
park. Shade in general is a top priority that we have heard from our citizens and I can 't
sit here and say it is shade on the bench all that they are talking about, but shade -- I
can tell you the top priority of our commission. It is something that we have heard time
and time again from our citizens, hey, we need more shade and this seems like a great
location to do that. I think that's all I have on -- on the shade. We would -- we would
like -- we think -- you know, we would commit to designing it, putting it out to bid, and,
then, bringing that bid back. If the bids are, you know, not favorable to the point that
you are comfortable with it, we can have that conversation then, but we wouldn't put it
out without a budget and some spending authority. So, that's where we are today.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Having been on that stage when it is that hot with friends of mine that
are performers and have not gone back, I do believe there are people that are not
utilizing it or not responding when they are asked to use it, because of the lack of shade
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
and it is a very expensive structure that is not utilized as much as it could be because of
the lack of shade and I think you're right that our part -- small part is -- is small
comparable to the gift we have been given.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I have waffled on this, Steve, I don't know how many different times we have had
these discussions about the shade and I have gone back and forth. I think -- I think -- I
think -- I think this afternoon I think I'm going to land on the side of supporting it and I
think the reason why is because shade is a big deal in our community, especially, you
know, in the parks where people -- in this -- in this case our performers or -- or have,
you know, experience -- unfavorable circumstance when -- when playing or acting or
using the facility and I think that because of the -- just to regurgitate what Anne said, I
completely agree what you said, so what -- I think -- think that because of the
investment that was made for this -- for our community through the Kleiner trust, I -- I
think that -- I think this afternoon you will get my support.
De Weerd: Any other discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Steve, what do we charge again to rent the bandshell or the amphitheater? I
know when I rented it it was 300 bucks. I can't remember -- I thought that we had
changed our pricing since then.
Moss: So, we have two different rates. One is for -- the threshold is 500 people for up
to a hundred -- up to 500 people the rate is 150 dollars per time block or 300 dollars for
the whole day, as in Councilman Cavener's case, or if it's over 500 people in the case of
like a special event we charge 250 per time block or 500 dollars per day.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? And the only reason why I ask that question is when you
take what we charge to rent and even if you amortize that over a ten year period -- let's
say -- let's say it's 140,000, it's like 40 and 55 times a year that we would have to rent
out the facility just to break even on our investment on the shade to me that is a reason
why -- we want to do it, just can't afford to do it, and I think that those dollars could be
better spent on other amenities in our parks that all of our citizens could take advantage
of.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I did have just a citizen comment that said -- because we are all trying to
be as diligent as we can with the spending of our dollars, because they belong to our
citizens, but I had one citizen say do it now that -- like she utilizes the park a lot and
said, please, spend it now while times are good, because we will need that shade a
whole lot more when times are bad.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? We will probably look for a motion on this.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we remove the shade structure for just this year. Talk about it next
year.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Did we want to discuss the HomeCourt first?
Siddoway: Sure.
De Weerd: Okay.
Siddoway: So, the HomeCourt -- the YMCA has moved out. We had this p resentation
on the record previously, so I won't belabor it too much. They -- they have been in what
we call Bay 5. With their move out we see the need to make improvements there to
make it more usable for the general public. We would like to have a front desk and
office, reconfigure the restrooms and, then, get the humidity controls that Councilman
Palmer talked about and, then, get some better multi-use sport court flooring down in
Bay 5. So, that is the gist of the enhancement and -- for the HomeCourt and I guess at
this point, knowing what you all know, and we have talked about, I would just like to
stand for any questions.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Siddoway: We do have Garrett here as well if we have specifics.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, the flooring, they found mold underneath there, but -- or whatever it is.
Where does that stand right now and what is the insurance going to cover ? Are we
closer to any finality on that?
Siddoway: Closer, but we are still in the -- that process. I did go out and -- and check
yesterday and followed up with our legal team, who has been in contact with ICRMP.
The adjuster has been out. They apparently have a report. We have not yet received it.
We have requested it. Anticipate it anytime. But it's not here yet.
Milam: This is from ICRMP's adjuster?
Siddoway: Yes.
De Weerd: So, stay tuned. Okay. Any --
Milam: Madam Mayor, I'm sorry. Steve, what do you anticipate as far as insurance
coverage of this flooring?
Siddoway: If it's determined that it's part of -- well, part of it has to do with the
deductible. So, there is a large deductible if it's -- if it's determined to be a flood or
groundwater situation, which, based on some verbal feedback I'm -- I think that may be
where it's coming. I don't know if counsel -- Mr. Nary, if you have heard anything
specific back on which way it's going or not.
Nary: We have -- we have not, so Steve is correct, there are two different deductibles
we are talking about and there is actually a third alternative that could actually be not
covered. So, that's really what we are waiting for this final report, so --
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, is there a time frame when we are expecting a response?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no. I mean we -- we have, obviously,
requested it. We want to make sure -- obviously, the Finance Department needs to
know just from the -- even a deductible standpoint to make sure we have the funds
readily available for that, but I don't have a target. I anticipate it soon, but that doesn't
really mean much, but that's the best I -- I can guess on it.
Siddoway: So, regardless of what the end result and the deductible are, I think in terms
of process we would -- what we would hope to do is somehow put a band-aid on it for
this fall, with the intent of the -- the full project -- our best time based on the use of this
gym is right now and it's -- and it's -- it's summer, so we don't want to be under full
construction of this area and have restrooms unavailable and things come falling in to
winter when the heaviest used times are. So, we would -- and, Garrett, I don't know if
I'm -- come on up. But the -- we would like to find a way to make it functional, as long
as there is not a finding of toxic mold or something that requires more remediation . We
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
don't anticipate that right now, but if we can we would glue tiles back down in a way that
gets us through the winter and, then, this project that we are talking about would be a
next summer construction project that we would try and -- it would take that right now to
get through -- if we got -- if we get the budget starting October 1, we still got to get
through construction documents, bidding, and, then, construction. So, we would try and
get through design and construction documents, beyond the concept that we have got
so far. Get those to the detailed level. Bid those over the winter. And, then, construct
next year.
Milam: Madam Mayor? What kind of money are you thinking it will cost for the b and-
aid to get us through this winter?
Siddoway: Well, we are hoping it might b e within our -- our main -- I don't have an
answer for you yet until I know what the issues are, so I will have to save that answer
for another day.
Milam: The reason I ask -- I want to be in favor of spending much money, but we didn't
have that space at all last year.
Siddoway: We didn't either.
Milam: So, I would rather have it be under construction or just blocked off --
Siddoway: Right. Do it or don't.
Milam: -- as opposed to spend a bunch of money just to make it -- a space usable that
we haven't even had yet.
Siddoway: We would co-rebate that.
De Weerd: Other questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Regarding the flooring, but I -- in looking at it, regardless if there is a water issue
was, the flooring is in terrible shape. I was actually under the opinion prior to looking at
it for a second time, because we went out and looked at it with all the -- the weights and
the machines and it didn't look that bad, honestly. It was -- it was -- I thought it looked
nice -- I said on the record that I thought that it was in pretty good shape. Maybe a
couple of tiles need to get replaced. No big deal. But after looking at it without the
YMCA in there and all the machines gone and -- it's not good and my -- we have this
big, beautiful facility. It cost us a lot of money and we have done so many things to it to
make it look beautiful, all the upgrades you have done to it, and to leave Bay 5 looking
like crap just to me is not the Meridian way. It's not who we are. It's not how we do
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
things. And I think that it's questionable whether you would even be able to play
pickleball on that floor with all the gouges and it -- it's in -- and I would advise you guys
to go out and take a look at it if you would like and I know Ty had an opportunity last
week -- it's -- it's in really poor shape.
Siddoway: And, Madam Mayor, what I would add to that is the desire to upgrade Bay 5
isn't a surprise based on the Y moving out. We talked about this when we were talking
about purchasing it. You know, we knew the Y was there, that we would hold off on any
improvements. I think Councilman Milam remembers when we were talking about
putting playgrounds in there and different things. I mean there were -- improving Bay 5
somehow has been on the table since day one. And, then, the last point I would make
is that we do have the vast majority of all the funds we need to do this in our budget
today and it's only that --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
Siddoway: -- a small --
Bernt: Steve, isn't it like a grant or something like that?
Siddoway: Yeah.
Bernt: Fifty-five grant?
Siddoway: The rest of it we have in our carry forward budget from the purchase of the
facility and we -- so, we already have most of the funds we need to do the whole thing
and if we can just get that -- that -- that small extra, we could make a big difference.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Steve, Garrett, understanding that we don't like it sitting
there like that, is it really not practical, because of the use? Because I know that bay is
pretty much separate, except for the restrooms; is that correct? Is it not practical to go
ahead and move up construction to get her done and get it usable?
Siddoway: It may be for the Bay 5. I think what we need to do is -- you know, if we
have -- if we have a project and ready to move forward, we can sequence this with the -
- with some advice from a construction manager and architect and say what do we need
to do. Because to your point we don't want to throw good money after bad on a -- on a
band-aid. So, is there something we can do and sequence it differently and -- until we
talk with an architect and know we have a budget to do something. We will sequence it
appropriately and bring that back to you.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Any other discussion on this? So, not sure if we need a motion. I know
there has been concern about the humidity control expense or -- I guess does anyone
have a motion? If not we will move on.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve budget enhancement for Bay 5 at HomeCourt.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Is that you're approving the enhancement
as --
Bernt: As is.
De Weerd: As is. Okay. Any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe a clarifying question. If it's in the budget as presented do we need to
take any action if it's a stay as is?
Palmer: It accomplishes the same thing as if I were to make a motion to -- yeah. If it's
four people that would say yes, then, there is no point in me making a motion to change
what's on here.
Milam: Madam Mayor? I guess -- and don't take this wrong, but I'm not thrilled the way
that this enhancement is put together. I mean FTE plus bathroom repairs for, you know
-- maybe you're just trying not to have a stack this high, but -- I mean we can go through
this one at a time and we can like pull stuff out or -- I just think it would have been more
effective to go through them one at a time, we could have been voting and maybe would
have been done, but that's just my personal preference. I would have liked to have
seen them separated out, especially when you're combining repairs with FTEs and they
are all different projects. It's not all or none. So, I'm a little bit hesitant on the restroom.
I think that it needs to be done, I'm just not sure if it has to be done this year.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Cavener: And I think -- I have a tendency to agree with Council Member Milam's point.
I think this is just feedback for the budget process is a whole. The structure of this
enhancement was the hardest one for me to follow and I recognize that when
departments work on theirs they are working under kind of the guise of what's going on
in their particular department, but we put this one in kind of with the bulk work of
everything else. To Council Member Milam's point, we have got lots of kind of scaff old
project work, in staffing, all trying to be kind of interweaved into one and it makes our
job more complicated to identify where its dollars are going in one giant enhancement. I
would prefer -- this is, again, just my preference -- that if we are seeing enhancements
that involve staff and others, those should not be interweaved into one kind of super
enhancement. That's just my personal feeling and I think maybe that's an opportunity
when we have this conversation about ways we can improve these types of meetings,
separating out that stuff is important to me.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor? You know, we have had the opposite feedback before and
this is how -- like on a park project what we have heard is we want to see everything.
So, a new park, for example, when we presented Discovery Park or Keith Bird or Reta
Huskey, it has the -- the park construction -- the capital, equipment, the operating and
the staffing that goes with it, so that it -- we are not splitting it out and it has the
appearance of, you know, hiding or trying to -- to divide it out. So, it has been our
practice to show it all on one. Our -- in order to get at -- get at what the desire was to --
you know, knowing that some might be in favor of all, some might be in favor of none,
some might be in favor of a portion, we did build this one with the capital line as the --
the separate projects in case you wanted to talk about them individually . So, we -- we
tried to build it in a way that would accomplish the same thing as separate
enhancements if you wanted to talk about them individually. But for us it is one project
and that's what we hoped to do it as and if you want to split it out you have those line
items there.
De Weerd: And -- and for you, you're recommendation is the whole proposal.
Siddoway: Our proposal is to do it -- do the project as one.
De Weerd: So, that is how it will best be utilized.
Milam: Madam Mayor? I guess -- I guess part of -- and I get what you're saying is you
want to see the whole picture, so might get to see the whole picture and, then, have
things broken out. But they are not -- it's all on your priority one. Every part of this is
priority one. Now, if they were separate we would be able to understand wha t are the
priorities and if we -- if we need to make some adjustments to this, we would be able to
see, at least from what your -- from your perspective where -- where could those
adjustments best be made, as opposed to just all being priority one. Like i s it the staff?
Is it the flooring? Is it the bathrooms? If we don't have 700,000 dollars -- we don't know
where you stand on that by having it all in one. Okay. Thanks.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Steve, what's the -- the potential problems with kind of ala carteing this, doing
-- say Council is like, okay, yeah, we want to do the humidity, compensation issue and
the front desk entryway and the half time. Would it be detrimental to -- I guess
budgetary considerations to -- to do just that and, then, do it as a separate construction
project another time the bathrooms and the -- whatever else? Would the cost savings
by not doing it all at once be a big factor or would i t make things awkward if you only
had part of these done, but, then, we are going to have to do other things later?
Siddoway: As long as we get the testing, permitting, and soft costs and, you know,
that's not just left off.
Palmer: Yeah.
Siddoway: We have done our best to make these individual sum budgets.
Palmer: So -- then Madam Mayor? So, Genesis, for you to -- to be able to do that a no
vote on the motion apparently would, then, give us a chance to -- okay, we have agreed
that as it is not perfect. What are we going to change and, then, we can pick and
choose what we feel is appropriate for this year and what can be held off.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Going to put you on the spot, Steve. What's your top priority? Give me a
couple of orders.
De Weerd: Shall we just vote. There is a motion. Mr. Clerk. The motion is to approve
the enhancement.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: Okay.
Siddoway: The two others that have come up are that pathway related ones. Want me
to respond to those?
De Weerd: Yes. Five Mile Creek?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Siddoway: Yes. So, both are -- Five Mile Creek. I will take the Fairview one first,
because it was the one that came up first in Councilman Palmer's conversation. What
we have there is -- first of all, let me agree with -- with what Councilman Palmer stated,
that there is a -- there is something there today. The question is is what's there a barrier
or is it not. I believe it is to family use that we are trying to promote and, you know, but I
think most of us could navigate it today. But it's not up to standards with our pathways.
So, the reason this is on here is because we are looking at -- the discussion in previous
years has been let's choose a segment, rather than being helter skelter all around the
city, let's make a connected pathway through the heart of our community. Five Mile
Creek was determined to be the location for that and we have been making some great
successes in different segments along that way and just this spring we opened the --
the -- what we call that H-2 segment that comes out to Fairview and from the light it
does continue on north from there as a fully developed ten foot wide multi-use pathway.
We have heard that pathways are the number one priority for our community for Parks
and Recreation issues of all and if -- this is our attempt to respond to that to say, okay,
we have got great improvements here, we have got great improvements here and we
have a gap in making a full pathway connection for the public in between . There are
three parcels involved. One may or may not redevelop. The other two certainly aren't
on the docket to redevelop and so we have been looking at using city funds where
redevelopment is not likely and in the heart of the community, because we know in the
Hinterlands where development is coming we require pathways to be developed and
connected. So, we -- we feel this pathway is a priority because it will connect to already
great segments of pathway in the heart of the community and continue that connection
through for -- what we have been told is the number one priority of our citizens. So,
that's -- that's why it's in there and I would ask if there is any questions.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I think -- I think in this situation, Steve, I think we may have put the cart before
the horse just a little bit. I mean I -- I agree one hundred percent with the connectivity
with -- with the Five Mile Creek Pathway. One hundred percent. And it's amazing what
H2 has done. I mean I know we worked on that for a lot of ye ars. With this next
segment I feel like before we appropriate 75,000 dollars specifically just for design, I feel
like we should talk about like a lesser amount and -- and go talk to the property owners
first, just to get their -- just to get their feedback and, you know, are they even wanting to
do it or is this going to happen or is this going to be a struggle , is this going to be a fight,
or is it going to be easy. Whatever the case may be, but -- and I know you're a great
salesman and I know your team -- Kim, great, you guys are going to sell it like crazy and
I don't have any doubt that it's going to be successful some day, but I think that before
we appropriate the funds I think we might want to just reach out to those property
owners and just -- 75,000 dollars is a lot and we just need to get like their temperature
to see what they feel about the project.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, if I could respond. I would say -- I would -- our desire not to
get the cart before the horse is why we are in front of you with design and construction
documents and right of way acquisition and not construction also, because to try and
bring you a construction related enhancement would be the cart before the horse. Now,
within that part, which is the initial development and planning -- there are steps and if
we did get funded with the 75,000 , the first step is still exactly what you said. We have
still got to go and do that. And if they -- if they say no, then, the rest don't get spent on
that. The -- but if the desire is to take it in baby steps and say, hey, go, develop --
spend -- spend five or ten grand developing concepts -- which is going to be the first
step in this regardless, but -- but before you -- and if you get a, yes, we want you to
come back to ask for more money before you move into design, you know, we can -- we
can chunk this down. We are just -- we have asked for enough to do design
development, meet with the property owners, assuming we can negotiate a yes, move
into design development and -- or, sorry, full design, construction documents,
negotiate easements. So, the budget we are asking would do all of that , but if you want
to piece it up smaller we can do that. There are -- there are definitely next steps in that
process.
Bernt: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: That's the hard part for me is I can't wrap my head around spending five or ten
thousand dollars before picking up the phone and saying here is what we are interested
in considering, are you open to it? Why waste at least a thousand dollars to, then, to try
to get in contact with them. I mean there is three property owners? And, then, one of
the property owners is multiple owners, so -- I mean that sounds like it's all tasked to
see if we can get people on the same page before we spend a penny.
Siddoway: And we can do that. Experience has shown us that the question right off the
gate is show us exactly what you want, what you're asking for. Where is the line? How
much? And we would need to be able to do some survey work and -- and things to be
able to do that. Having said that, I mean we can ask if they are at least going to talk to
us before, you know, spending a dime. But once they are willing to talk to us they want
to talk -- you know, what are we talking about? Where is the line? And we need to be
able to do some initial engineering and look at slopes and get some survey work done
and things like that to be able to have a real answer for that. Mike, anything you wou ld
want to add or --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Bernt: So, I just -- just because I'm new -- so, let's just say that we hypothetically say,
Steve, go talk to people and let's say we get lucky and they are like, absolutely, we want
to do this right now. So, do we have to wait another year for like -- or does it turn into an
amendment or how does -- is that what it --
Siddoway: It would turn into an amendment, which we, yeah, try to avoid.
Bernt: But that's what it would be? That's the next step , though, turn it into an
amendment or wait another year and do another enhancement; is that -- those are the
two options; right? Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And I appreciate wanting to do this is an enhancement rather than an
amendment later, but I think another year would be valuable anyway, because a large
section of that is not developed. I mean what was JJ's is not going to change in the
next year. What's next door, the bigger chunk of it, very well may. It may not. But it's
not gravel in the meantime. I just don't want to be in a hurry on that.
De Weerd: If it's a safety issue and I think that's why it's here in front of you to say we
have -- we have been working at the direction of the city to have connected pathways
and we have created a situation where now we have connected and we have left this
piece not to the standards that we have set for our pathway system and we have
introduced a dangerous -- a potentially dangerous situation. Have we done our due
diligence. But have we been responsible in now saying use our pathways, but, oh, just
be careful on that section, because we aren't ready to make it safer. I guess that may
sound an unfair way to define it, but the reason that staff has brought this enhancement
in front of you is because they don't feel that it's up to the standards that we have set in
our pathway and it does possess -- or potentially introduce a problem that could
potentially happen.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I feel like we have -- it's not that we have created a dangerous situation by not
building a ten foot, you know, across everything. I feel like we have created a more safe
situation by building what we have built if -- if ensuring that there was no dangers nea r
where we build pathways was the number one concern, there would be no way we
would be building pathways along canals without putting a fence along every foot of it .
But we look for opportunities to build next to canals, so if -- if -- if ensuring that the
pathway is a perfectly safe place to be, that's not what we are doing. This is a
connection that does need to happen, but a small section of your -- yeah, you're next to
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
a road I feel is no more dangerous than the several miles that we have next to ru shing
canal ways.
De Weerd: And it's a very busy one and so -- and I just wanted to make sure to
articulate again the reason that is in front of you is -- is safety has been a top priority. It
has a risk and -- and they would like to close the gap on it.
Siddoway: I will be brief on that point, Mayor. Thank you for bringing up the safety
factor. It definitely is part of it and while the extruded curb that ACHD put it i s a real
blessing to us and it's better, certainly, than it would be without it, the reality is the rest of
it is a narrow sidewalk with, you know, utility poles in it and it's just -- it's narrow. There
is obstacles. And we would like to -- to clear those.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I think you have heard every viewpoint.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Borton: Please. I will move on it. So, here is, in super short summary, because it will
explain my position on it. Understanding the purpose of enhancement in the design,
right? So, this enhancement doesn't actually fix anything in the short. It moves the ball,
but you have got an opportunity to capture some potential of private investment to assist
and facilitate it. We are not impeded by any delay if this is withdrawn, that if you have
those discussions and if there isn't any private development in the short term, then, at
Councilman Palmer's point, we can capitalize on it and, then, you can -- you can bring a
budget amendment. That's maybe not the best way to go, but it can keep you on the
same schedule as you would be today if it's included, but it still allows us to capture the
potential that Councilman Palmer is trying to highlight. It seems uncomfortable with it
being removed, at least with the understanding that we all want to see that get
completed at some point in time, so we assume -- and, hopefully, we will be pleasantly
surprised by some development assistance and, then, some fruitful discussions, so --
Madam Mayor, if there is not other discussion , I would make a motion that with that
understanding to remove the Five Mile pathway connection.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Okay.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, if I might just -- just make sure I'm summarizing correctly.
The motion was to kick it out, but not -- don't -- continue with our conversation and,
then, if we develop a project Council's open to a discussion of an amendment. Okay.
De Weerd: That's what I heard.
Siddoway: That's what I heard. I just wanted to make sure.
De Weerd: Okay.
Siddoway: The last one that was brought up was the trailhead on Ten Mile for Five Mile
Creek. Actually, it's part of the -- of the farther end of the same pathway. Again, we are
trying to make a connection and a statement and a there there for our community by
developing the pathway network and focusing our attention on this Five Mile Creek
pathway through the heart of our community. There is a dead end of that pathway today
at Ten Mile Road and we have some opportunities there, a couple of them, related to
partnerships with ACHD and we certainly wouldn't feel like we were doing our job if we
didn't bring this to you and three years from now we having conversation , well, why
didn't we talk about this three years ago when ACHD was getting ready to do their
project, because we could have saved some money. What we have is an offer from
ACHD to donate land on the south side of the -- Five Mile Creek next to Ten Mile Road.
It's adjacent to a storm retention -- storm water retention facility of theirs, but there is
some additional land that they are not using that they have said we can use for a
trailhead if we are interested and they are willing to donate that land to us. In addition to
that, there is a road project on Ten Mile Road coming that's in design and, you know, I
think it's a next year construction; is that right? And so the piece that Councilman
Palmer talked about was the 35,000 dollars to partner with ACHD on getting the bridge
widened to accommodate the pathway, because whether there is a trailhead there or
not the extension of the pathway further west does move to the south side and we got to
get across that bridge. If we don't get that done with this project that ship sails. The --
the other piece of it is if we have the ability to construct it -- if there is interest in building
a trailhead for the pathway network along Five Mile Creek, this is an opportunity to do
that and we think we could save about 80,000 dollars on the total cost by partnering
with ACHD when their contractors are out there and mobilized and making this part of
their overall larger project, so that's the -- where we are at in an nutshell and we will
stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Palmer: And I move we just remove everything from the enhancement, except for
35,000 dollars for the bridge widening.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to amend this enhancement to
represent only the bridge widening component for 35,000. Discussion?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I'm just curious if I may ask the thought process behind that.
Palmer: Yeah. Madam Mayor, I -- I -- same as everything, you know, this is General
Funds. If it was a situation where we were able to use impact fees, then, I would say,
oh, that's a great use, but I understand it's not. It's got to be General Funds, so I think
that absolutely capitalizing on -- on really the low cost of getting the bridge completed
and ready for a time when we do have a better plumbing situation to do the rest of it.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If -- I apologize if you said it and I missed it. If we go forward at this path do we
still complete the transfer of title now, take ownership of the Reed parcel and at least
capture that while everyone --
Siddoway: You know, I believe that still is an option. I'm looking at nods from Kim and
Mike. They have been working with ACHD. I believe the answer is, yes, we could
pursue the ownership of that parcel midway.
Borton: Madam Mayor. And, then, if we went that path I -- assuming we would, then,
we are going to be knocking down weeds or dragging -- doing something at least in the
short term to make it --
Siddoway: Probably become a part of our contract for remote sites.
Borton: Okay.
Siddoway: If it's not already.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: So, what would that cost be?
Siddoway: It's not very much. Any guesses?
Borton: Madam Mayor, while he's -- I think that's really important, because it may be
much more in our interest than ACHD's interest to have that not look like a spite strip
and be weedy and it's not going to be quickly turned into a trailhead.
Siddoway: Develop the landscape, just --
Borton: Yeah. We might be more inclined to have it done properly.
Barton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, if we own it we maintain it and I would
estimate somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 dollars a year to keep it sprayed or
plowed or whatever for weed control and some litter removal.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I guess before I would vote on this motion I would need assurances -- I am
interested in this project. Whether or not it has to happen in this budget year is a whole
other story and I wouldn't want to take it out of the budget and, then, we lose the
opportunity to have that land and --
Siddoway: It has to happen in this budget year to realize the savings of making it part of
the ACHD project. If we are not concerned about the savings from -- from mobilizing
ACHD's contractors it can come back in a year after that. We are just bringing it to you
this year, because we see the potential savings of making it part of the road project.
Milam: Madam Mayor, follow up. But is the savings just in the bridge or is the savings
in other parts of this?
Siddoway: Okay. That --
Barton: Sure. Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, it's all the way a cross. It's through
every discipline. They are going to have -- so, the engineering is less for the parking lot
and the drainage, the paving is less. The curb and gutter is less. Everything would be
done -- would be contracted for with the crews that are doing Ten Mile. So, there is a
huge economy of scale.
Milam: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, nay; Bernt,
nay.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. FOUR NAYS.
De Weerd: Any other items under parks? Okay. I'm going to take a five minute break.
Sorry, chief, I know you have been -- five more minutes.
(Recess: 2:04 p.m. to 2:16 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I'm going to call this meeting to order again and we have police up
next. So, since Todd's not there to say -- will you open your books to the police tab.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, I have an opening statement.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Lavey: So, I know the most important question you're going to ask us today is when is
our lip sync challenge coming out.
Milam: Yes.
De Weerd: Are you going to do it right now? That would be awesome. Come on.
Lavey: It has been filmed as of yesterday and so stay tuned for the release in the next
two or three days to have it edited and posted, so --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: It needed a lot of editing.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: How are you going -- how is that going to be displayed to the public at first? Or
is it going to be --
Basterrechea: It will go through our Facebook account.
Bernt: Okay. Perfect. I can't wait see it.
Lavey: I'm sure it's going to go viral.
Bernt: It's going to.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Lavey: Looking at the clock we have the next two and a half hours --
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for the police?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just a couple questions. And apologies that -- the chief and I were supposed
to connect last week and I had to cancel, so, again, my apologies and so some of
these --
De Weerd: I think he made up a really good excuse.
Cavener: A couple things. You know, you have got large dollar enhancements in here
and smaller dollar enhancements and I think it's easy when we look at all of this to focus
on the large dollar enhancements and kind of go along with the smaller ones and I know
that we as Council still dig deep into them, but I guess my first question was about that
the Nixle social media and media tool and I will preface that. I went through the demo
with the sales people and learned what that tool can offer us as a city and for me what I
-- what I came away from that was is that everything that that software tool offers we
internally through our city website can already accomplish, with the exception of the
recruitment element and so that's where I have been trying to wrap my brain around is --
does PD need a better resource when it comes to recruitment and this is it and it also
does these other things or we need a better communication tool and this does it and
recruitment? Because to me that's what I seen Nixle being is something that helps us
with our communication and public outreach and does recruitment, but in talking to the
sales agent who had worked with PD it sounds like that really the larger need is a
different approach to recruitment and if that's the case I think that we need to be having
a conversation about what that best recruitment resource is for the department. Does
that make sense?
Basterrechea: Absolutely. And I will answer that. I think it's both. I think it's more
efficient for us as a communication tool. Most certainly for me dealing with the media.
We have the turnover. We are constantly trying to figure out whose e-mail address we
are sending our media releases to. I will send them out and I get kickbacks, because
that reporter is no longer there. This reporter is no longer there. As opposed to they
opt in and they get the releases and not just them , it's a lot easier -- the citizens can opt
in and they can get those releases as well. The thing that really did kind of make it pop
to us was absolutely a recruitment tool, our ability to reach out to the younger
generation that is dealing with the technology that I'm not great with and -- and wouldn't
understand it if they reached out to me the same way. But it gives them an opportunity
to really respond back to us and immediately get involved into our -- into our website,
into our recruiting phase and those types of things, instead of trying to send officers out
to the traditional job fairs that just have not proven very -- very effective for us or, quite
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
honestly, with most agencies that are out there. So, that's really -- it was really a
combination of both of those things. You can flip it either way you would like to flip it.
Cavener: Okay. So, Madam Mayor, question, Tracy, for you. Can you -- can you share
with us on Council about -- if we move to the Nixle model of asking reporters to opt in to
me that seems like a deviation to the way that the city and other municipalities have
really managed their public outreach in general. It's a different approach and I'm
concerned about a new reporter that comes to cover the City of Meridian and he or she
doesn't know that's how it is and he or she -- I mean he meets with an officer and
maybe that gets communicated that the only way you're going to get releases is if you
opt in -- you download this app and use this Nixle software tool. We talk a lot about
being in control of our own destiny when it comes to storytelling and to me this Nixle
piece is counter, that we are -- we are asking our citizens to download another app, we
are asking reporters to opt into another forum where through our city website we have
already got that mechanism built in and we are already pushing that out and when --
you know, as I understand when you all need a new reporter or somebody within the
city needs someone who covers Meridian, you can add that name to our list and, then,
send it out without having to download and without asking somebody take an extra step
to opt in and so this is one that I struggle with , because I'm just trying to figure out how -
- what efficiencies do we gain outside of the recruitment and, quite frankly, if you guys
need a better way of recruiting new talent I think we as a body have heard from you --
you guys have to take a new strategy when it comes to recruiting quality people. I think
we all want to support that, but we want to spend the right dollars. I would rather not
fund Nixle and challenge you guys to come back with the right mousetrap for
recruitment, recognizing it might cost more than Nixle and it might do more to get your
guys further along to where you can be recruiting the right talent. And the other piece
that I think is important share with Council -- when this was first presented, the biggest
piece that intrigued me was -- we talked about push notifications in that we as a city
would have the opportunity to push information out via our website without necessarily
people having to, you know, be on our specific website. The challenge is in order to
achieve that we have asked people to download a separate app and an app that really
isn't associated with the City of Meridian and so I'm not on board with this one. I'm one
hundred percent in lock step with what you are trying to accomplish, but after going
through the demo and kind of hearing and trying to articulate what the needs are, I don't
think this is the right tool that's out there. I think there is a list of those out there that -- I
will try to do my part to go out and research what's available that I would love to talk
more with the department about. Maybe you have vetted them, maybe you haven't.
We haven't had that opportunity to discuss that. I just think that this is not the right
resource and our use of dollars to get us to where I think everybody wants to go.
Basterrechea: Sure. And just to answer one of your questions, the other agencies
already are using Nixle and Boise uses Nixle. I believe Ada County uses Nixle as well.
They have been using it for several years and we have always been the ones that held
back for the very reason I don't want to spend money.
Cavener: Sure.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Basterrechea: But, quite honestly, with the amount of media that we get and as it
continued to pick up, I don't have time to continue to make sure I'm getting the e -mails
out to every person that needs to get those e-mails on those contact lists, as well as
then go to Facebook and copy and paste from the press release and put it on Facebook
and, then, go to Twitter and vice-versa. I'm not that well versed in that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, maybe, then, an additional question. Tracy, when you're
sending out releases are you using the city website subscriber tool that we have already
created where you just pop it in and it's sent and it's done?
Basterrechea: I have a media contact list that goes to all our -- our media people.
Cavener: Okay.
Basterrechea: Like I say, when it changes it gets kicked back to us.
Cavener: Gets kicked back to your -- if you get --
Basterrechea: To me.
Cavener: If I'm a reporter and I no longer work for news, when you send it out you get
hit with another --
Basterrechea: Right.
Cavener: -- and after to go back in and remove it.
Basterrechea: Yes.
Cavener: Okay.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I guess I would just add, too, that this was
a tool that would coincide with the public safety position and looking at something to
make that person's life easier as far as being able to get the information out quickly and
to all of our social media websites and to all the people that have interest in the police
department. I will tell you that the police department has the highest number of
followers in all of the web pages within the city and that's not because we do good work ,
it's because people are interested in their community and public safety as well and so
this is a tool that would assist that position as well. Frankly, we just can't -- we can't do
it and do it well the way we are doing it. So, that's what that was. It's the lowest budget
item that we submitted and it's not the end of the world . We will still do our -- our
mission and still get it -- get it done, but this would be -- make it more efficient for us and
that's what we are hoping for. So, greater staff time in how we currently do it. This
would reduce that staff time, but understand the concerns some people have if it needs
to go it goes, it's not worth fighting over.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Councilman Cavener, I guess I see it easier to opt into
something than try to get a hold of Tracy and make sure he's got my right e-mail if I'm a
reporter.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I see this -- I think it's a great tool. I want to opt in. But even just for the
recruitment aspect alone -- I'm not sure HR wants to chime in or not, but the police
department is here this year not asking us for -- for sworn officers because they can't fill
the positions that we have already approved. So, they need all the help they can get
and I think for 8,500 dollars, if you look at how much it cost to recruit one police officer,
there would be a real fast return on investment just right there alone.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, an additional comment I should have said -- and it goes back to
what Councilman Cavener said is that we have vetted this out with Kaycee and the
Mayor's office. We have vetted this out with IT, looking at other resources out there.
We also have talked to HR and we understand we do not want to have duplicate
resources out there. We don't want to have our own little island in what we do things,
but one of the things, as we were going through -- the preparation for budget, we
indicated that if there is something better, if there is something cheaper, we are all for
that, but we would like to have the money earmarked, appropriated and, then, we would
do our due diligence if something comes up between now and October that's better ,
more efficient and cheaper, then, of course, we are going to look at that.
Cavener: And, Madam Mayor, I think to that point -- and I could be wrong based on the
demo that was provided to me, but the recruitment element that Nixle provides -- there
is nothing that's stopping you guys from doing all of that today with the features that we
have built into our city website. So, that's the part that's hard for me to say we are
essentially going to be spending dollars to do the same thing that we can already do
with the existing technology that we have invested in. That's all.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, obviously you know more than we do . We
don't have access to that. So, we have to explore that, because that's not our
information that we have.
De Weerd: Are there other questions about the police budget?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: As a question about the police budget as a whole, there is another item that I
want to talk about, which is I think the next one, the PIO, and it somewhat correlates to
the Nixle request. One, I'm really excited -- I'm really proud that we as a city have
embraced public information and really engaging the public on what's going on within
this building and within our community and -- and, honestly, I think that Police and Fire
need to have somebody that is helping to tell that story as well. You guys -- while Tracy
is masterful at working with the media and getting information out and being available all
the time, there are other things that I think are better suited to -- when you said I wanted
to go into law enforcement, Tracy, I don't think that you thought you were going to be
working on a computer sending out press releases and I think it's important that we find
the right way to go about that. I'm -- I'm not supportive of funding the enhancement
today for one general reason and that is that we as a city have a really unique
opportunity right now as there are more demands to educate the public both from our
citizens and as municipalities trying to be more transparent to mayb e build a better
mousetrap and be like the premier when it comes to public outreach and -- and is it best
to serve our citizens by giving each department a PIO that works within their particular
department or is it better to kind of correlate our -- or pull together all of our resources
and have a public outreach team -- if it's a department or a division of the Mayor's office,
something like that, where we are -- and I know that this happens already to a degree
where Kaycee is working with -- with Shelley and Shandy to make sure that we are kind
of following all the same platforms. I worry that when we start siloing everybody that we
are missing out on the opportunity to have a unified voice when we talk to the media
and to the public. So, I'm somewhat supportive of -- that we need to have a larger
discussion about PIO both from Police and Fire, but PIOs in general. I'm just not sure if
I'm there that we need to start allocating communication or public outreach personnel in
each particular department and we start to see that happen in Public Works, in Parks, in
the Mayor's office -- I just think that it -- this is an opportunity to take a step back and
really look at is there a better way to go about this and -- and I think that there is. And
so I'm not on board with supporting this position today, but I am supportive of us
eventually funding this position if -- if we have got a better plan to how we are going to
utilize public outreach and communications in Meridian.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I will tell you that if we do not f inance this
position, the level of service that you enjoy is going to go down. We cannot provide the
information to the media at the high level that we do now. We are getting 25 plus calls
per day on media requests and I need him as a deputy chief . I don't need him as a
media. So, if we don't fund this position we are going to have to do something and that
means I'm going to have to get another sworn officer and put in that position, which
goes wholly against what are current needs are. With that being said, because of what
you said about islands and stuff, I respect that and that's why we have this position
directly reporting to Kaycee, so it's under her umbrella and under the community
outreach that we are trying to do for the entire city to make sure that we aren't our own
island and that we are not doing it the Police way or the Fire way, we are doing it the
city way and I personally had difficulties with that at first, because I know what we need
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
out there and I know how other municipalities have tried and failed with some of their
approaches that you're talking about and so this was our compromise where we actually
had it be a direct report to Kaycee working out of the Mayor's office, working out of the
Fire Department, working out of the Police Department and any other department that
needs help. So, I guess it kind of is the first stages of that public outreach that you're
talking about. So, respect your position , I understand it, trying to take that in
consideration in coming up with a hybrid model of -- of the proposal and I will defer to
Tracy to add anything that I may have missed.
Basterrechea: Public outreach is one thing. I think crisis communication is absolutely
another thing and when we are dealing with critical incidents, like we had to within ten
days -- one of us needs to be at the scene doing our job, another one of us needs to be
at the hospital doing their job with an officer and making sure that our people are taken
care of. We can't do either one of those jobs very well when we are trying to deal with
the media. We need somebody that can handle that crisis communication and can grab
a lieutenant and say what do we have, grab a sergeant, you're going to be the one
that's going to give the initial briefing, sergeant, lieutenant, whoever, these are the
points we need to make sure that we hit. As opposed to me sitting at the hospital trying
to type things up, trying to send things to chief, vice -versa, back -- back and forth, trying
to figure out what we are going to do amongst ourselves, as opposed to making sure
our people are taken care of, making sure that our community is taken care of and we
are giving a hundred percent to those two things, rather than splitting our time with
figuring out what the media wants to hear and that's hard to do , because we want to be
accessible to the media and we have been very very accessible to the media and you
don't know how frustrating it is if even when you're trying to set up a media staging area,
but you don't have anybody to send there, because you're doing your job -- guess what,
they are going to be out there pushing the limits, trying to find that story and I really
think that is an area from the PIO perspective that is just so demanding that we need -- I
mean this isn't Meridian five years ago, it's not Meridian three years ago. It has grown,
things are changing, the demographics are changing, the types of calls we are dealing
with are changing and we need somebody outside of that sworn position that can
handle those behind-the-scene things and help us with the things that we need to do.
Emery: Councilman Cavener, I just thought I would come down to Council and chat
with you guys, too, because you have had some questions that I have been upstairs
watching and, you know, I might be able to help with that, so I came down here. First of
all, I just wanted to real quick let you know on news releases we don't go through the
city website anymore, because it was kind of an archaic process for us , as reporters
never really signed up for it, because they had to create a login and whatnot, so we use
MailChimp right now for the city and we found that a really good way -- you know, if I get
a new -- MailChimp automatically cleans out any bounced e-mails and, then, if I get a
new reporter I will either input them, because it's so easy, or I will say to them I will send
them the link and so they can input here and it's so easy for them and -- and a lot of
times they are used to that. That's how they are use to -- they are used to going to the
websites and inputting their e-mails and kind of the scenario they are used to working
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
in. The Nixle one had an emergency communication component that MailChimp does
not have and so that was something that was interesting to me, so --
Cavener: Madam Mayor? I just want to -- what is the emergency communication
element that Nixle provides that we are not able to do.
Emery: Wasn't that the -- didn't they have where you could direct communication to --
it's been a while since I watched the video. Didn't they have where you could draft
communication to a certain area? Is that how -- is that not the one?
Lavey: I believe that they can. You can actually go in and set geographical --
Emery: I thought you could.
Lavey: You go in and you establish a geographical radius and, then, send out
notification to those that have opted in within that geographical radius.
Emery: Yeah.
Lavey: You will still have to opt in, but it would all be users that had opted in in a
specified radius. So, if you had an incident going on at a school in the northern part of
the city, you could actually put a -- an indicator as to what's going on there. When you
add our critical incidents the last couple of weeks, you could send th e information out to
the neighborhood going, hey, this is what's going on . But that's something a PIO would
have the time to do. I can tell you from personal experience of working both those
critical incidences it was an absolute nightmare as far as timi ng and trying to get the
information. How I had to get the information on the first one was talking on the phone
to a lieutenant that's currently on light duty that can work, read his computer from home
and give me all the key information I needed for the media release. On the second one
I had to use the city of Boise's PIO to look at my bullet points and in both cases I did not
do a media release until I was sure that the scene was secure and the officers were
safe and one thing that we realized working with the media is the longer you wait the
more information they will release on their own, factual or non -factual, and so it's key to
get the information out as soon as possible and, frankly, we need someone behind the
scenes that -- that's monitoring the radio, monitoring the computers, preparing the
documents that we are going to need, the talking points we are going to need and this
person won't be the spokesperson for the department, this will be the behind the scenes
person and, then, one of us will still go in front of the media. So, that's -- that's what that
is. I respect all the dialogue we have here. This has been a need for some time,
multiple years, and we finally got to the point where we feel that we are at a critical
stage that we need of to go forward.
Emery: Yeah. I just real quick want to touch onto the PIO questions. I have seen this
as a needed position for a long time now and I -- aside from -- the crisis communication
is huge and aside from that, just seeing what people respond with and to these surveys
and safety is so -- so important to them and we have a lot of safety messages that we
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
can be even more proactive about. There is a ton out there. So, I -- the proactive
communication is a huge component here and the thing I like about it is that it is a public
safety PIO, so it's Police and Fire, and there is so many great fire messages out there
that just sitting down with Pam Orr that I would just love to get out there, that, you know,
I have -- I have thought, oh, we need a public safety newsletter that goes out every
other week or once a month and this is something that person could do and, then, you
know, we are being proactive about getting those messages out to our commu nity and
so there is a lot of different -- this person will have a lot on their plate when they begin
and I think it will be a great addition for the community and for the departments and a
needed help if there is a water main break and that's a public safety component. They
can go help wrangle the media on a water main break in town. So, there is a lot of
different elements to this position.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I understand this is a public safety PIO, but it almost seems like this would be a
city PIO with emphasis on public safety and if its direct report to Kaycee why is it in the
police budget instead of the Mayor's office budget.
De Weerd: I think it's in the Police Department's budget because it will really be the --
the lion's share of the -- of the time commitment and they need to have a specialty in the
public safety realm, understanding the incident responses and -- and those kind of
things. So, it really does have to have that specialty.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, I will tell you that the city of Boise tried to
use the one PIO method and just based on what the deputy chief just said is that there
is a whole different communication style that's needed on a city versus on a crisis
management and there is -- there is so much learning curve on the police side of what
you can release, what you can't release, what's going to taint the jury pool if you put that
information out, what's a violation of the rights, because of arrested or not arrested. It is
completely two different types of communications and they found that they could not do
it. Why is it under the police? Because we believe that we have enough work on the
crisis communication side and on our social media side of releasing the good things that
we do, because, frankly, we see it everyday of the great things our officers are doing,
we just don't talk about it, because we have no one to talk about it , because we are too
busy dealing with the calls. We believe that there is enough work to do in the police
department alone that it could take one hundred percent of this person's position. But
that's not proven yet. And so because of the decisions that we made we decided to
have it report to the Mayor's office -- or to Kaycee and have it include Fire, because we
didn't think that Council was ready to get one for Police and one for Fire, but I will tell
you if we continue the growth that we grow it's going to happen. It's needed. The city of
Nampa and the city of Boise have already shown that they need it. My guess is we
need it for just telling ourselves we don't . And so this was our approach of start small,
see what we need, see what the load is. I can tell you right now with the calls that I see
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
coming in every single day in the police department, I am a bsolutely confident we can
exceed 80 percent of their time just ours alone and that's before they even get to the
social media aspect. So, this was a start. We knew that that one person would be -- we
knew that one person would be difficult to get approved, let alone two. So, this -- this is
what we decided working with Kaycee as well, is that we will have them report directly
to her and see if that works. If it doesn't we will do something else. But the time is -- is
here. We need at least one body to do that. I guess I'm going to defer to you --
Niemeyer: Just to add another horse here a little bit here, but to add to this from a Fire
perspective and public safety perspective -- and I appreciated the Public Works
comment, because I think there is applicability there, too. I can tell you the last three
significant fires we had where I should have been there en gaging in and watching our
men work. I was sitting behind a computer typing up the press release. So, that is the
role that -- that I play. I act as our department's PIO. To Tracy's point, when the media
calls when we have a significant event it's not just one news outlet, it's about six to
seven. So, you're taking call after call after call. Meanwhile you're trying to get the
information from your on-scene battalion chief in our case or Jeff mentioned the
lieutenant or the sergeant, it is very time consuming to do. We do -- we try and do a
good job with our social media outreach. Judy and Christie kind of manage our
Facebook page. They have full-time jobs. They are doing the best they can. So, to the
point of incident response, the information that needs to get out, having somebody that
has a focus on the knowledge of public safety -- Jeff mentioned investigations in the law
enforcement side. On our side you're talking about HIPAA things that people need to be
aware of. If we have an arson the re is certain things you do not want to get out to the
public and I would tell them the media is relentless in trying to get that information, so
you spend a lot of time doing that. So, certainly we support this. We understand law
enforcement has a -- has a high priority and focus on this. They have a lot of
engagement that they need to do with the public, but from the Fire perspective having
somebody dedicated and knowledgeable is very much supported.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mark or Jeff, too, in light of that comment, it's the first time that I'm hearing
that as leaders of the department you're having to spend your time to write out press
releases and so help get Council educated when we have -- already have a citywide
PIO, why that burden is falling to you as, you know, department leaders to have to add
that piece when we have already got staff that that's kind of the component of their
position or Kaycee can chime in. Whoever. It just -- to me that just seems counter
productive, which is why I can understand you're advocating for somebody, but I guess
from my perspective, not knowing the day-to-day operations that, that's why we have a
public information officer is to do those things, because the City Council believes that
you shouldn't be spending your time doing that. So, where is -- where is the disconnect
occurring?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Basterrechea: The reason I do it is, one, I don't want any of these guys to have to do it
when they should be running their scene and I'm also the one who is salaried and will
respond at anytime of the night when I need to respond at any time of the night without
having to pay them overtime. If you want to run her into the ground, as opposed to
doing what her regular job is, we can push all that PIO stuff to her and that's why we
don't. There is -- is no way she can do her job that she's doing and come and respond
to all of the things -- every media response that we get or every camera request that we
get when we are out on a scene. I don't -- it's impossible for her -- one person to do that
job in my experience and I would rather take that burden on than shove it off on our
troops.
De Weerd: And I would say that Kaycee's position as communications manager has not
just the PIO-type of element to it, it's all communications within the city and working with
the different departments on how to effectively communicate the message and -- and
what's going on in each of the departments, take a focus on live streaming and -- and all
of the outreach that has increased, what, in our city survey it increased 20 percent in --
in terms of the improved informed citizen. So, it -- the PIO piece is a small portion,
recognize that there is no way that would be the workload of Public Safety that was --
that was not ever the intent to take that on solely.
Emery: And I will -- yeah. When there is a big incident, like the one that was the last --
those two weekends in a row, I was helping them out on those two weekends . On the
second one I was on the phone with the Boise PIO and chief and helping them post to
their social media. So, in big events like that I do help out where I can and , then, same
with Fire. In a lot of fire press releases I do draft there is something to be said when it
comes to Fire and Police about it is very critical that whoever -- if we do have this
position that they are trained very well in what you can and can't release. That is
something I have not -- because it's such a small part of my job I don't -- I haven't been
trained in that, so I have to defer to them on a lot of that stuff on what we can and can't
release, just because it's sensitive information. But I do handle the PIO for every other
department, except for Fire I do more -- I'm super thankful for Tracy. He does all of it for
Police, which is fantastic. And, then, I will step in if they have a big event, like our
Police had two weekends in a row, because there is no way they -- I mean they needed
that extra help for sure. But I get about two to three media inquiries a day and that's not
even when I send out a press release . So, it's even a larger part and those two to three
media inquiries, that might not sound like a big number, but those are two to three
responses I have to track down or set up a meeting for someone or figure out
schedules. There might be two people that need interviewed or whatnot or in some
cases I might just see if it's a quick radio interview about Movie Night, I might just
quickly do it. So, I'm being modest when I say two to three a day, so it's -- even with --
even aside from public safety I'm still going to continue to get those two to three a day.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just seeing if there is anymore comment.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: I saw you looking around, I thought you were trying to get my attention.
Borton: Just gauging the infield.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further on this item?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, I guess I'm ready to move on for a vote, but I will point out
lacking -- or not lacking -- with the exception of code enforcement, the one area on the
city survey that we had the lowest numbers on was communication and this is a way to
address that. We had all great numbers, but when you look at c ode enforcement and
communications, those were our lowest, so that was another aspect of putting in this
request. And with that we are ready to see a vote.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Good discussion. Glad to -- to move to a decision. It sounds like there is
maybe -- we have Nixle and PIO. But this is clearly -- this -- I talk about when we grow
each time we approve these applications we are committing to spend money to make
sure we maintain these levels of service and the indication with the public is no different.
You're outstanding and amazing at what you do, Kaycee. And, Tracy, you -- you have
covered this for longer than you should have. We are growing at a rate now this is
clearly necessary and think of creative ways to do it within the city. I'm certain yo u will
investigate that and work with the Mayor and your liaison, but it's a no brainer to me.
We have got to stop having you do what you're doing now. You continue to be excellent
and get someone else in here to cover that critical role. That's not an option. I would
move that we approve the PIO as presented.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: Are there any other areas to be discussed in the police budget?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I don't think there is going to be presenting -- and this is the time for taking
action. I -- I think there is some enhancements that are in here that if we weren't taking
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
the property tax increase would be warranted or if we weren't at the maximum property
tax requested amount it would be worthy of discussion. I continue to struggle with the
amount of dollars that we are spending. If had I my magic wand I think there is some
things that would come out. It's been fairly apparent to me today that I think the bulk of
this body would like to continue on, so for the second time I'm not going to make any
additional motions, but I just think that there is some spending in here that we could look
at in future years, as opposed to this year.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, I have a statement on that and I respect that -- that thought. I
will share with you the thought I ha ve and it's just going to have it on the back of our
minds. My only regret in providing this budget to you today is we did not ask for the
nine additional bodies and we need. We are up against the wall and we are having a
difficult time trying to keep up. The reason we didn't ask for those new bodies is we
because -- you're already aware of -- is that we are having difficulty filling those
positions, but based upon the model that you adapted and the approvals we keep
making, as of December we needed nine bodies and looking at the growth we have
experienced in the last seven months my guess is you need a lot more than nine
bodies. If we are having a difficult time even stomaching these positions that we have
submitted, I hazard to even think about what we are going to face next year. But with
the growth that we are experiencing, with the yes votes that we keep giving every single
week, the demands that it's putting on this city to maintain the level of service that we all
enjoy cannot be done if you're no t funding positions. So, if we are having a difficult time
this year, prepare ourselves to have an even more difficult time next year, because it's
going to be ugly.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: To that point I think that is why today I have been advocating with every
department to find areas of dollars that we can remove, because I would hope that as a
body we would never find ourselves in a position that we would choose not to approve
the appropriate amount of staffing for our emergency responders, but, instead, are
choosing the fund public art or trailheads or things along those lines. Chief, you need to
bring forth the enhancement for the resources that you think are warranted and we as a
body have to discuss if we have the dollars to pay for that . So, I appreciate where
you're coming from, but I -- I'm disappointed in -- in myself as a Council Member and I
think we should be disappointed as a body if you feel like that you can't bring the right to
request before us for the appropriate amount of staff , because if -- if you guys need it
we need to be having that conversation this year regardless of if you're able to hire
them.
De Weerd: And I think the point is that they have brought their needs to you.
Lavey: Yes.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
De Weerd: This is -- this is not -- just the tip of the iceberg, but there is -- there is more.
These are needs. They wouldn't be on your budget unless they weren't and there is
more to the Police Department than just sworn officers and the resources on the street.
There is support that is needed to every single officer out there to make sure they can
do their jobs and do it safely. So, this all plays together and one cannot be separated
from the other and I believe that's what the message was.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, that is the message is that we brought forward the most
critical needs that we have and based upon what we could hire, train, and deploy and
covering our support services, covering our communications. So, the most critical need
-- so, the point is if we are struggling with the most critical needs, then, where are we
going to be at next year when those further needs come in and so in the past we have
held back and we didn't hold back this year. The only rea son why we held back on the
-- the nine additional positions is because we couldn't staff the positions that we had
currently open, so it didn't make sense to add more. That's the only reason why you
don't see nine police officers enhancement in front of you today. But I think we need to
-- we need to be transparent and we need to remind you that that is going to be coming
up and so whatever you need to do to -- to fund that we respect, but it's there.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Lavey: Thank you.
De Weerd: Anything more from Council on Police? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Todd,
what's next?
Lavoie: I think, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, appreciate everybody's
time. We have gone through all the departments. We still have a few more items that
we would like to have you guys discuss. If we go to your summary page at the very top,
we are going to just go in order. I will give you an opportunity to discuss if you have any
items to discuss. The first one that we want to present to you is the Police Department's
STEP plan. Again, we want to give you the opportunity to discuss it. It still is the
number -- it still is the value that we wish to present to you and the citizens and we want
to make sure that you have an opportunity to discuss this at this time. So, any
questions about the PD STEP plan that we can answer for you as of now?
De Weerd: And Crystal is here if you have any questions.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. I don't know if this should go to you, Todd, or to Crystal.
Does this include all officers? Or chief. He's probably going to get Berle.
De Weerd: I guess you're not the subject matter expert.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Ritchie: Do you want to answer the question about positions that are not funded?
Lavey: I will attempt answer it and, then, you can correct anything I screw up. How is
that?
Ritchie: Deal.
Lavey: The question is the same I think before I left the room. The question is does it
include everybody.
De Weerd: All officers.
Lavey: It includes all sworn officers from officer recruit level all the way to lieutenant
command staff -- is what's currently proposed, yes.
Little Roberts: So, everyone.
Lavey: With the exception of the chief and deputy chief.
Little Roberts: I see a problem with that. I believe you should be -- the two of you
should be included. So, that might be a discussion.
Lavey: There is two separate -- Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, there is two
different processes how that comes in play and that's because of -- of non-exempt
positions and exempt positions, because Tracy and mine are exempt positions, we are
on the kinds and levels chart. Prior to the last pay study we did, the lieutenant positions
were non-exempt, but we made the concession to make them exempt, but they still fall
under the STEP plan. Because of the way we have the process set up in the city, it's
the STEP plan year to do the market adjustments and market analysis. It is my
understanding that next year it's the tier of the -- that deputy chief and chief fall under,
which has their market analysis, because that's done in thirds and they started at the
bottom and it's -- it's our turn next year. So, it's behind you. That's why the proposal
you have in front of you includes just the officers in the STEP.
Little Roberts: Follow up, Madam Mayor. So, does that mean we are just kicking the
can further down the road? Because I mean we have got some neighbors that have
significant problems, are we kicking it further down the road that's going to create bigger
problems later unless you two are never planning on retiring?
Lavey: Yes. Yes to kicking it down the road. Not yes to I'm never going to retire.
De Weerd: I think, Council Member Little Roberts, we would like to -- the STEP plan is
funding authority to -- to deal with the -- the sworn, non-exempt, and we think that there
is funds in there to deal with the command staff just like the command staff on the Fire
side, as we also evaluate these -- these levels of positions over this next year. So,
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
working with the two chiefs, HR, and myself would like to bring back a recommendation,
but what is it in front of you today would fund what we are attempting to do this year in
lieu of that more comprehensive, upper management evaluation.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. So, this is in our sights if we are --
De Weerd: Yes.
Little Roberts: -- not working on it this year --
De Weerd: Well, there would be --
Little Roberts: A study?
De Weerd: There would be something this year and, then, closing the gap next year.
And -- that would be brought back before the new budget year comes in within the
constraints of what you're setting today.
Little Roberts: Thank you. I just -- after all I have learned with this process I don't want
to see us get further and further behind to the point that we have got anyone in the
sworn officers situation that we can't be competitive with valleywide and even further as
we try to recruit and fill these positions -- very critical positions.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, I will -- I will share the numbers with
you, because I have them. This is that -- when you look at the consultant's
recommendation and the plan that was submitted, it's 1.1 -- you will see it your packets.
It's 1.141 and the reason why it's that is becau se this number has gone up and down,
up and down, up and down as we went through this process , and, then, you get to a
point where that's the number that went to the printer, so we left it in there. But there is
that amount of money already in exceeds that something can be done with it and, then,
to try to implement things -- as long as we have the money appropriated we can figure
out how to implement it before.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions on the Police STEP? Okay.
Lavey: We are now prepared to talk about the Fire STEP plans.
Basterrechea: There is probably some clarification so everybody knows. The
lieutenants are in the STEP plan, even though they are exempt , so I just wanted to
make sure everybody understands that clearly. They are part of the STEP plan.
Milam: Madam Mayor? And do you feel like that is still the appropriate way to have this
paid for --
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Basterrechea: Absolutely.
Milam: -- that all exempt people should be out or everyone should be in?
Stokes: I can speak to it. I know more about police STEP plans than I ever hoped to
know. I, like Tracy, did not want to be a PIO, I did not want to be a STEP plan
consultant or member of a committee or anything like that; right? I wanted to catch bad
guys. But now after many years I know much more about this. STEP plans are -- the
reason we went to this -- I can't even remember how many years ago that we went to a
formalized STEP plan is to insure that the organization will flow, right, from -- from
bottom to top and top to bottom. It all has to work. And what we found honestly -- and I
know it's -- it's tough to -- to slide their two positions into these. There are a lot of
agencies across the country that do, right? Everybody that's a sworn officer, no matter
whether you're the chief or the newest person on p atrol, you're in that STEP plan to
ensure that -- that things can move when people retire or come out of positions, that --
that all of those numbers work to incentivize people to promote and , you know, further
the organization in doing so. So, it's not ideal to have anybody outside the STEP plan I
think is what I'm trying to get to. It would be ideal, honestly, to have them in the STEP
plan, but they haven't been since it was -- since it was created. But I think there are
some mechanisms we can ensure that they are balanced appropriately when compared
to the STEP plan and staying where they are at, but we just have to do -- there are
different things -- you have to look at them together, because, eventually, with most of
us in this room, you know, we are all going to go out of the organization and new people
are going to have to come in and we have to ensure that, you know, we can get people
to do that, so --
Milam: Madam Mayor? It sounds like it's in a bottleneck, but nothing's going to flow the
way it is right now. So, why not add the chiefs in.
Stokes: I don't have that answer. I can tell you from -- from my side of this process it
would make a lot more sense. You know, it's -- and it doesn't have to be -- you know, in
that STEP plan there is -- one should be promoted to the rank of corporal there is three
STEPS in that rank and three in sergeant, and three in lieutenant. There is -- there
really aren't any STEPS beyond, but I think you could put base amounts so you keep
your compression at -- at bay. Honestly, you know, compression is the biggest thing in
a police STEP plan or any organization STEP plan; right? You -- it gets to a point where
things get too compressed and people don't move, you know, they are like I can sit here
and not have that extra responsibility and -- and be real close. So, you have to be very
cognizant of that and our consultant is very cognizant of compression . But I think that's
the biggest thing is our STEP plans moved even slow at times -- has moved to a point
where we have really compressed their positions to a point where it's -- it's not healthy
for the organization to move --
De Weerd: And that is what the compensation plan is it for this coming year is also
going to consider. So, hopefully, this time next year when we are having this
conversation.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Basterrechea: This year we just want to -- we just need to make sure we take care of
our people, so --
De Weerd: And you are our people.
Stokes: Thank you, Mayor.
Basterrechea: The lieutenants down right now is our priority for us.
Stoke: I respectfully disagree. I mean we have kicked this can many times and other
cans and I think we have come to a head this year where we realized, you know, this all
has to work or none of it works and it's just kind of how it is.
De Weerd: Okay.
Lavey: Madam Mayor and Council, I guess I had wrote some notes on some talking
points on this and I guess I will just speak on it, because I'm the chief and I always have
to talk, but some of the difficulties that we have is encouraging people to take the
lieutenant positions and in our department we put great demands on those positions
and I came in front of you last year asking for two additional bodies, because of those --
those great demands and as the city grows those demands don't -- they haven't
decreased with the added bodies. It's just that we have a lot more things going on and
so we ask a lot. For instance, last week when we had the unfortunate incident where an
officer was shot, I sent a message out and said all hands on deck. Come into work.
And they did. But you have to understand that when you reach a level of lieutenant,
there is no longer any overtime pay, there is no longer any specialty pay, there is no
longer any assignment pay. You're working in an exempt schedule, which means that
you're working 40 plus hours a week under those high demands and when you look at
the other agencies around the valley, we are between nine and 21 percent gap for the
officers doing the same job in this Valley and we used to think that we were different,
that we had low crime rate, which we still do. That the types of people that we deal with
are -- are different and we have proven at the last couple weeks that we have the same
the calls, we have the same stresses, we have the same dangers and we -- our
employees deserve to be compensated fairly and that's what the consultant researched
and proposed and that's what the proposal that was put in front of you does. So, with
that being said, I will stop, unless there is any other questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay.
Lavoie: Thank you, Mayor and Council Members. I will go ahead and move to the next
item, which is our -- which we have notated as the Fire Department adjustment and we
can answer any questions for you on this particular item if you have any. If no
questions we will move onto the next item, which is the merit proposal of the three
percent pool for the general employees and this is for the General Fund. Any questions
on the merit pool proposal? Seeing no question, so we will move to the next one, which
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
is known as the General Fund Market Adjustment. A two percent market adjustment to
the general employees. Any questions for this one? Seeing no questions. So, the next
one -- the next two items we will go to are our transfers. We are proposing that we
transfer money to our savings account, so we can use it for future capital needs. The
first one we are transferring to is the Capital Improvement Fund. I will open up for -- any
questions about the two transfers that we are proposing for our future savings -- or our
savings for our future capital needs? Any questions on these two items? I see no
questions. So, before I get to the last one, number seven, Jenny, if you wouldn't mind
just going down -- I can tell you right now that Jenny has updated the budget to -- with
all the changes that you had requested. All the changes that you voted on -- not
requested. Decided on. Duly noted, Ty. The current position of the General Fund
budget as it stands right now is that we are going to still request 253,351 -- or 551
dollars out of our fund balance to quote , unquote, balance the General Fund today.
That is where we are at at this moment. That includes the next item that is up for
discussion, which is the three percent. So, again, we are still requesting to use fund
balance to balance this budget with three percent. We are asking for a maximum three
percent allowable opportunity of 924,000 dollars. So, you have seen the bottom line,
where we are standing at the -- for the General Fund. I'm happy to discuss the three
percent with you at this moment. Note that any changes to that line would change this
bottom line as well and we are currently asking the fund balance to cover the balance of
the budget at the moment. I will sit-stand for any questions on the three percent
property tax proposal.
De Weerd: And, Todd, that fund balance is for the HomeCourt, which --
Lavoie: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: -- is what we saved for.
Lavoie: Correct. Primarily to use for that, yes.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Milam.
Milam: However -- I'm going to -- there is some 300,000 dollars here --
Lavoie: Well, the good thing is we do have a balanced budget for the citizens. We can
publish this as it currently stands. We can publish it for four weeks to the citizens and,
then, on August 21st we can -- we will be back here in front of you with this budget for
the citizens input as well. So, if there is any questions between now and then we can
answer them, but we do need to have a final number to put into the paper to offer to our
citizens for review. So, right now I can -- I can tell you we have a balanced budget that
we can give to the citizens at this moment, which is great. So, I can appreciate all the
effort and time to get to this, but, again, I want to open it up if there is any other
questions about the three percent. If there is no other questions -- again, we do have a
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
balanced budget. Again, I appreciate that. Mr. Cavener talked about a parking lot. We
have cracked a few things to put in the parking lot . He did want to discuss some things.
We have the team here. I want to open it up for any last questions or thoughts about
this budget before we conclude. But I want to offer you guys another opportunity to
discuss and open up any items that you want to bring back to the -- or pull from the
parking lot if you wish. So, for that I will hand it back to you guys if there is any further
items you wish to discuss at this time.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Thanks, Todd. Thanks to all our staff and directors. I think a month ago
when we were sitting here I said something about that it's -- the really easy decision is
to just vote for the budget and move forward . Probably even the second easiest is the
city is in a lot of trouble and we have got to cut everything under the moon just to be
able to balance the budget. We are not in that position because of wise council before
us and this body. For me I try to be -- I try to let people know where I am on things and I
know sometimes I put my foot in my mouth. The hard decision is to be the bad guy, to
talk to your friends and your colleagues and say I don't think this year. I can't support
funding that. And I had to do a lot of that today. So, my -- it in no way reflects the great
work that I think that our departments do and how hard working our employees and our
directors are. To me it just boils down to -- and I talked a lot about this with the
directors. I alluded to that and we talked a lot about premier and I want us to be a
premier community just like every one of our directors and our employees want to be.
But having this work means a lot of things to a lot of different people and to me when I
start thinking to premier is that we have got a Council that's working day in and day out
to be as prudent as possible with the dollars that our citizens give and I'm going to
challenge our directors -- I believe that the budget before us, but Members of Council
vote to put it out to the public and while I'm not one them, I would really challenge our
directors to go back through their budget with a fine tooth comb -- again, knowing that
they have already done that -- and say are there things that we are doing that maybe
we don't need to be doing anything because we have got other programs that do a
better job. Are there software tools that we are using -- and maybe there is something
that's better that's out there. That's cheaper that's out there. Are we using our data plan
appropriately. Do all of our employees need, you know, LTE attached to their
computers. Are they using enough? And -- and -- and come back and say here is
some things that we found, give you a second or third look. These are things that we
could do to reduce that liability to our taxpayers. I have said it I don't know how many
times today -- I can't support this budget because of the property tax increase and
things that are in there that would be nice to have, important to have, and are needed
that maybe aren't needed this year. So, when I talked parking lot, there is a lot of those
items that I alluded to and tried to be as transparent with you as a Council and our
directors as possible. What's great about our system is it's not up to me, it's up to us as
a collective body and if there is four of us that say, no, this is what we think is best for
our community, great, let's do it and Council Member Borton will probably talk about
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
keeping the rules and put our arms around each other as friends and, then, let's
continue to do the good work for the people. My lack of support for this budget as
presented does not -- no way, shape or form reflect my feelings about the people and
the time that went in to bringing forth this document and the significant challenges it
takes to bring this to us. I'm appreciative of that. I'm just not supportive of the number.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Todd, I'm thinking that the number that was published in here for employee
insurance per person was higher than what the actual amount is going to be . Is that
correct or -- we have the right number --
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, we have the number that we are
comfortable with publishing to cover the expenses that we feel are necessary for fiscal
'19 for medical benefits.
Milam: Okay.
Palmer: Any other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor, just a comment for that. The reason I'm supportive of the
budget as adjusted at super high level is -- is it's balanced, it's consistent with the
funding plan of our long-term CFP. It is in compliance with that and the -- the -- we have
talked about it before -- I think the unfortunate necessity of taking the three percent is
just a byproduct of the circumstances that we have created and the only way for long-
term viability to eliminate a recurring revenue source is to eliminate recurring
expenditures. So, if -- if, for example, in a budget we had a million dollars of one time
expenses, that does nothing to solve the long-term consequences of eliminating a
recurring revenue source. So, if there is going to be an elimination of three percent, it
will need to coincide with the elimination of a million dollars in recurring revenue -- or to
recurring expenses. Which is different than it's not parks and bridges, it's people and if
you eliminated every person in this budget -- every additional person in the budget still
wouldn't cover the three percent. So, that's -- I think that's much more challenging
and I certainly don't advocate for that much -- that much more challenging pursuit, so --
and Councilman Palmer opened up some of the discussion of there can be
circumstances where it's a necessary evil for a city to have to utilize those funds to
maintain its long-term financial viability, save as we go, and this is one of those years.
De Weerd: So, Todd?
Lavoie: Yes.
De Weerd: Do we need a motion to publish?
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, there is one final step. So, after all the conversations we do
have to have a final vote saying that the number that you have presented to you on the
screen and what we have done all day -- is this comfortable or are we going to vote this
in, so that I can make a public notice to the citizens and establish the final proposed
budget. So, if we are okay with doing one final vote on the General Fund as you see on
the screen with the adjustments that we made notes of, we would ask the motion be
made to have a vote as is.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move that we adopt the tentative budget for -- as presented, General,
Community Development, Enterprise Fund. That's it.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a vote to publish. The -- the amount of time that's gone into
this by everyone and in particular Council with the questions and I think the questions
have been very thought provoking and have been good dialogue to have and similar to
what Councilman Cavener envisioned and some of the dialogue that he has had, will
create some additional thoughts as we mentioned the budget year and -- and where we
can. I would say I'm very proud of what our departments do in mak ing sure that every
dollar spent is -- is prudent and, you know, the challenge with the question, then, if we
can do more in making sure that every dollar is spent is with the purpose and an
outcome in mind is -- is something that we can build in as we move forward and as we
continue to talk about some of these areas that policy needs to be refined and created.
So, as I mentioned at the beginning and with travel, if there are issues that -- that would
like to be redefined in that, the CDBG, compensation, o ur -- our approach to public
transportation through VRT dollars spent, the MAPS ordinance are -- one of the things
that I haven't thought of is we have kind of assembled is the teams of prosecution as
that has increased, what is the tipping point and that if the city ever were to take that,
what that would look like and have a conversation with the Council about that and I think
Councilman Cavener brought something up that certainly as we have been working with
the strategic plan we would -- we would like to have a conversation with Council on
what is premier. I do think that needs to have a better definition and to get the input
from Council in what a premier community means to you and what that looks like and --
and so those conversations will -- will continue as well. But thank you to staff, thank you
to the Finance team and all the hours that you have put into this and now maybe you
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
can actually do the rest of your jobs. I'm just kidding. But thank you. You guys are --
are stellar and they will continue to hold our -- all of our feet to the fire in terms of
expenditures and making sure that we all adhere to the policies that we are guided by.
Anything in closing?
Lavoie: I just want to echo your statement, Mayor. Every year we reach out to you
guys to see what we can do better. A handful of you have been here a handful of
years, a number of years, and you have seen us change every year. I will continue to
reiterate and promote continuous improvement. Luke, you have made a number of
comments today that we are going to take to our heart and take into the next budget
cycle. I appreciate it. Again, with everybody, any comments -- we do listen. We do
make the changes. If you looked at this process 12 years ago -- much different and
that's because we have tried to listen on the Finance side, make our suggestions to the
Mayor and this is where we are today. So, I can promise you that we will continue to
adjust the times changing. I think Tracy said it earlier we are not 50,000 anymore, we
are not 70,000, we are over 100,000. We are the second largest city in the -- in the
state. So, I can promise you that we will continue to evolve. We will work with you
guys, we will listen to you guys, will continue to deliver to the citizens and you guys the
most prudent budget we think is available and with that I just want to say thank you to
Council. I know you guys spent a lot of time this year, a lot of information transferred
and we appreciate it. We learn from it every year. Extend huge thanks to the Mayor. I
know we have sat at 11 :00 p.m. talking. So, again, I appreciate the time. Appreciate
David Tiede and his team for putting this room together. These changes are I think very
beneficial to us from a communication standpoint, so a huge thanks to Dave and his
team.
De Weerd: And the batteries lasted.
Lavoie: Yes, they did. So, again, I can just say a huge thanks to Jenny, Brad, the rest
of the Finance team and, please, extend a huge thanks to your staffs as well, the
amount of hours that go into this small book. It takes a team to build this, so, again,
thanks for everybody, thanks for having a balanced budget and we will see you on
August 21st. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I move to adjourn.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council - Budget Workshop
July 12, 2018
Page 117 of 117
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 3:36 P.M.
(AUDIO RDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR TA DE WEERD DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
�' "�O PUGus T 1
C. JAY C LES, OOY CLER a? '�
$' J
O%C y
1p D
L
w
Sti .��