2018-07-19Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting July 19, 2018.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of July 19, 2018, was called
to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Rhonda McCarvel.
Members Present: Chairman Rhonda McCarvel, Commissioner Steven Yearsley,
Commissioner Jessica Perreault and Commissioner Lisa Holland.
Members Absent: Commissioner Bill Cassinelli, Commissioner Ryan Fitzgerald and
Commissioner Gregory Wilson.
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Andrea Pogue, Bill Parsons, Sonya Allen, and Dean
Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance
__X____ Lisa Holland ___X___ Steven Yearsley
______ Gregory Wilson _______ Ryan Fitzgerald
__X___ Jessica Perreault _______ Bill Cassinelli
___X___ Rhonda McCarvel - Chairman
McCarvel: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. At this time I would like to call to order
the regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission on
July 19th. Let's begin with roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
McCarvel: Okay. Thank you. First item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda.
At this time we have no changes, so could I get a motion to adopt the agenda as
presented?
Holland: So moved.
Perreault: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in favor
say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
McCarvel: We have no Consent Agenda this evening, so we will move on and at this
time I would like to briefly explain the hearing process for this evening. We will open
each item individually and, then, start with the staff report. the staff will report their
findings regarding how the item adheres to our Comprehensive Plan and Uniform
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July 19, 2018
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Development Code with the staff's recommendations. After the staff has made their
presentation, the applicant will come forward to present their case for approval and -- of
their application and respond to any staff comments. The applicant will have 15
minutes to do so. After the applicant has finished we will open to public testimony.
There is a sign-up iPad in the back as you entered for anyone wishing to testify. Any
person testifying will come forward and be allowed three minutes and there is a timer on
the screen. So you will be able to monitor that and a bell at the end of the three
minutes. If you're speaking for a larger group, like an HOA, and there is a show of
hands to represent that group, it will be given up to ten minutes. After all testimony has
been heard, the applicant will be given another ten minutes to have the opportunity to
come back and respond if they desire. After that we will close the public hearing and
the Commissioners will have the opportunity to discuss and, hopefully, be able to make
a recommendation to City Council.
Item 3: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Hammer Daycare (H-2018-0060) by
Darla Hammer Located at 2208 N. Linder Rd.
1. Request: A Conditional Use Permit for a group daycare
6-12 children) on 0.20 of an acre of land in the R-4
zoning district
McCarvel: So, at this time we would like to open Item H-2018-0060, Hammer Daycare,
and we will begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The first item on the
agenda this evening is the Hammer Daycare. The application before you this evening is
a conditional use permit to operate a family daycare. The site consists of zero point --
0.20 acres of land, zoned R-4, and is located at twenty-two zero -- 2208 North Linder
Road. Adjacent land uses are primarily single family residences, all zoned R-4 as well.
History on this particular property -- and back in May of this year planning staff did issue
an accessory use permit, so the current owner of the property could operate a daycare
-- what we define as a family daycare which consists of six or fewer children. Also
mentioned to the Commission that recently we also amended the UDC to allow daycare
groups as a conditional use in the R-4 zones, so the applicant proceeded with that
application with the city and, then, waited for the UDC amendment to go into effect
before she applied for her conditional use permit to operate the daycare group that's
before you this evening. So, as I mentioned to you, the current residence or the site is -
- consists of -- developed with a single family home. The applicant is here to increase
the number of children from six to 12, as allowed under the UDC. Main access to this
particular property -- let's see if we have an aerial for you here -- is from Linder Road,
but the applicant did provide some photos for you to take under consideration. So, you
can see the front of the residence here. Linder Road is an arterial roadway and their
garage and the driveway fronts on Linder Road, but the photo -- the photo in the lower
left-hand corner shows that the applicant has provided additional drop-off area or
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July 19, 2018
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parking area along the southern portion of the home on a less intense road, which is
Tana Drive, and that is a local street. One of the staff's commissions -- or conditions of
approval in the staff report is that the applicant is to direct their parents to drop off the
children on that road versus Linder Road for safety purposes. You can see here also in
the photos that the applicant has constructed new fencing and meets all of the UDC
specific use standards for the daycare traffic -- or daycare use. Excuse me. Staff did
place a condition in the staff report that the applicant -- you can see also along the
south boundary you can -- where that drop-off area is there is additional parking that
could be provided on the site. So, staff has recommended that the applicant not repave
the site, but just stripe it in accord with UDC standards. The proposed hours of
operation for the daycare use is from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Currently the code allows
the operator to operate from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. So, they are actually asking for
less hours of operation than was allowed by code and we have also tied them to that in
their conditional use permit. Staff has not received any public testimony on this
application, nor have we received concurrence from the owner of the property. She is
here in the audience this evening, so she will answer any questions you may have, but
staff is recommending -- recommending approval with the conditions as stated in the
staff report and I will stand for any questions.
McCarvel: Any questions for staff? Would the applicant like to come forward. And just,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Hammer: Darla Hammer. 2208 North Linder Road, Meridian.
McCarvel: Okay. And did you have anything to add to Bill's narrative?
Hammer: Not really. I mean I have had the six with the accessory use permit and I'm
just excited to -- I was waiting for that other portion to get changed and then -- so, I have
just kind of been waiting for that and getting everything ready for it.
McCarvel: Okay.
Hammer: So --
McCarvel: Any questions for the applicant?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: The only question I have -- are you in agreement with the staff report and the
-- and the conditions?
Hammer: Yes. Absolutely.
Yearsley: Okay. Thank you.
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July 19, 2018
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McCarvel: What's the square foot on the --
Hammer: Oh, I just had Kenny there this morning for the fire inspection. I think it's
1,380.
McCarvel: I appreciate all these pictures. This is probably one of the better laid out
presentations we have had on a daycare.
Hammer: Oh, good.
McCarvel: Any other questions? Okay. All right. Thank you.
Hammer: Thank you.
McCarvel: And, Chris, you said there is no public testimony?
Johnson: There is no public testimony.
McCarvel: Okay. We have no one signed up that would like to speak, but if there is
anybody in the room that would like to speak on this application, please, raise your
hand. Okay. Okay. At this time, then, could I get a motion to close the public hearing
for Item H-2018-0060?
Holland: So moved.
Yearsley: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on H-2018-
0060, Hammer Daycare. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
McCarvel: I will jump out. I think at first glance it seemed like a small square footage
for 12 kids, but I think it's a very well laid out and very well planned out daycare and I
was pleased to see the parking. That was my first question when I first even started
reading the staff report, I thought, okay, with Linder Road where -- where are we going
to drop all these kids off at. So, I appreciate the pictures of the parking on the side.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: I agree. Looking at the pictures, which are very well done, it looks like they
are -- do a pretty good job with safety with different fencing and -- and stuff like this for
the kids, especially along Linder Road. So, I don't see any issues with this application.
Holland: Madam Chair?
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July 19, 2018
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McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I would tend to agree. I think they have -- they have done a thoughtful job of
thinking proactively about what they would need to do to make this a facility that would
work with the new designation, so -- I don't want to cut anybody off, but I'm -- I'm happy
to make a motion.
McCarvel: Perfect.
Holland: So, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to
approve file number H-2018-0060 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of
July 19th, 2018, with no modifications.
Perreault: I second that motion.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to approve H-2018-0060. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Congratulations.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Parsons: Madam Chair, just for clarification --
McCarvel: Okay.
Parsons: -- the project folder is six seven, not six zero.
McCarvel: Six seven. Okay.
Parsons: I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong sheet. Never mind. Six zero. I will shut
up now.
B. Public Hearing for Bountiful Commons Subdivision (H-2018-
0067) by TMEG Properties, L.L.C. Located at 5960 N. Linder
Rd.
1. Request: A Preliminary Plat consisting of 6 building lots on
6.15 acres of land in the C-C and L-O zoning districts
McCarvel: And we thought the technology was the problem tonight. Okay. At this time
we will open public hearing Item H-2018-0067, Bountiful Commons Subdivision and we
will begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. I'm on the same
page as you are now. So, the next application before you this evening is the Bountiful
Commons Subdivision. The particular property consists of 6.15 acres of land, currently
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July 19, 2018
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zoned C-C and L-O and located at 5960 North Linder Road. Adjacent land uses. To
the north we have vacant property, zoned RUT in Ada county. If you recall, there is a --
a pending land use application on that particular property known as Linder Village. On
the east we have single family properties in the Paramount Subdivision, zoned R-8.
And, then, there is also the L-O zoned portion that backs up against an LDS church,
zoned L-O. South we have rural residential property, vacant land in Paramount Village
Center, zoned L-O. And to the west we have North Linder Road and single family
properties in Lochsa Falls Subdivision, zoned R-4. The history on this property -- so,
last year this -- the applicant brought forth an annexation called Linder Mixed Use
project. As part of that property the applicant was required to enter into a development
agreement where you guys looked at his concept plan and -- and approved some
conceptual elevations and a lot of that is already somewhat reflected in the staff report
that we wrote up for you this -- this time as well. So, a lot of the elevations are -- are
those that were presented to you back with the mixed use project. The Comprehensive
Plan designation for this particular property is mixed use community and mixed use
neighborhood. So, the applicant is proposing a six lot sub -- commercial subdivision.
Two of the lots will be -- or, excuse me, four of the lots will be zoned C-C and two of the
lots will be zoned L-O. A vehicular access is provided from Linder Road through a
shared commercial drive aisle that provides access to the properties to the south, to the
north, and all of the internal lots proposed with the subdivision. Staff is also required
that they provide access to this parcel that's labeled as not a part as well, so rather than
no local -- or no public streets are proposed with this particular application, all of this will
be done through shared access or cross-access agreement that's required as part of
the subdivision and a condition of approval. The only required landscaping for the
proposed subdivision is the 30 foot -- 35 foot wide landscape buffer that's required along
North Linder Road. All other landscaping will be reviewed and approved with lot
development. The applicant has shown a 25 foot buffer along the residential portion of
the subdivision, but, again, that will be reviewed and approved with a future conditional
use permit application or a certificate of zoning compliance application. As I mentioned
to you previously, here are the elevations that are again tied to that development
agreement that was required as part of annexation. Nothing new here. But I did want
to let you know that the -- we did receive written testimony from the applicant. They are
wanting to modify one condition of approval that's in the staff report this evening and
that would be condition 1.1.5. Currently as written staff is requiring that they record a
subdivision before they are allowed to get a building permit. The applicant would like
the ability to at least pull one building permit prior to recordation of plat. The applicant
does have two legal parcels in order to proceed with that process, so staff is amenable
to modifying that condition to -- to allow the applicant to pull -- receive CZC and design
review approval and pull -- submit for a building permit prior to the plat recording. And,
then, just before the hearing they -- staff did receive some written testimony from one of
the audience members that I presented to you and they would like -- they showed you a
wall detail that they would like to address with the applicant and address -- have the
Commission address as well. Other than that, staff has not received any other
testimony on this application and we are recommending approval with the conditions as
stated in the staff report and that minor modification that I spoke -- just spoke to you
about. With that I conclude and stand for any questions.
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July 19, 2018
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McCarvel: Okay. Any questions for staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to come
forward, please.
Gosser: Trevor Gosser. 74 East 500 South, Bountiful, Utah. 84010. Madam Chair
and Commissioners, thanks for listening to this application today. Bill did a good job
explaining, you know, what I'm trying to do here. I have been before you guys a couple
times now and typically, you know, you don't want to take a pre-plat in when you go in
for annexation and zoning, but I wasn't able to at that time, so I'm just coming in and
pre-platting at this time with six lots and a drive through that and connecting to the
surround -- the adjacent properties. At this time I just yield to see if you guys have any
questions.
McCarvel: Okay. Any questions for the applicant?
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Have you had a chance to look at the letter that came in about the -- the
fence?
Gosser: It was handed to me right when I got here and so -- I did take a look at that. I
am selling that back portion to a buyer and I would ask that the residents come and ask
when they come for a CZC for this particular item that they are requesting is what I
would propose. I don't know if you guys know this, but there is no sewer connected to
this property. I have to pull sewer all the way from Cayuse Creek up to this site, which
is over 500 feet, because the adjacent property didn't pull sewer to and through and so
now I'm left with it, which is a big burden on me and that, you know, a big dollar amount
to pull sewer down Linder 500 feet to get to my property and so I would ask that that
would be reviewed later on and not at this time.
Yearsley: Okay. Thank you.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: One follow-up question.
Gosser: Yes.
Holland: When you say you're selling part of the back parcel, how much of the property
are you selling?
Gosser: The two back parcels.
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July 19, 2018
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Holland: Okay.
Gosser: Yeah. So, it's to a dance studio. Someone's coming in and putting in a dance
studio there.
McCarvel: Bill, can you go back to that layout -- or Sonya. There you go. Thank you.
Gosser: Lots 3 and 4.
McCarvel: Lots 3 and 4?
Gosser: Yeah.
McCarvel: Okay.
Gosser: And, you know, there is a -- a 25 foot buffer as is with -- you know, we are
going to be planting a lot of trees, because there is a lot of trees on the property right
now and because of the tree mitigation plan out there we will be, you know, putting a lot
of those trees right there to fulfill that requirement.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Bill, can we make that condition -- or -- I'm just trying to figure out what --
what we have -- what we can do I guess per the code. Can we make that part of the --
that they put the fence as part of this CZC or is that not under the purview of the
preliminary plat I guess is what I'm asking?
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The code gives you flexibility as
to how that buffer -- as I alluded to you that buffer typically happens at lot development.
This is a subdivision, so really the only required landscaping is along the street.
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: The code does allow -- there is a couple provisions in code for these
particular buffers. The applicant has the ability -- or the Council has the ability to reduce
the buffer through public hearing process. So, Council could reduce the buffer during
the public hearing. The code requires a 25 foot buffer where all the trees have to touch
at -- at maturity is the other option and, then, code also says if you put up a wall or a
fence you can reduce the number of plantings.
Yearsley: Okay.
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July 19, 2018
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Parsons: And so there is currently a fence there. So, you -- code -- you can require a
wall if you so choose, because the code says if -- to mitigate against residential uses
you can require a wall to do that.
Yearsley: Okay.
Parsons: I'm just letting you know there is other options, too, that could mitigate some
of that as well under the section of the ordinance.
Yearsley: Okay. Thank you.
McCarvel: Okay. Any other questions for the applicant?
Yearsley: Not at this time.
Gosser: Thank you.
McCarvel: Chris, do we have anyone signed up to testify?
Johnson: Madam Chair, you had four persons sign in -- and I apologize if I
mispronounce the name -- Barbara Badigian is for, but does not wish to testify.
McCarvel: Okay.
Johnson: Leonard Badigian is for, does not wish to testify. Joe Marshall for and wished
to testify.
McCarvel: Okay.
Marshall: Madam Chair, Commissioners, thank you for this opportunity. First, I want to
commend --
McCarvel: Please state your name and address for the record.
Marshall: Oh. Joe Marshall. 5937 North Arliss Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. 83646. First
off I'd like to commend Trevor Gosser. He has been absolutely awesome to work with.
I have a lifetime of working with a lot of different developers. He's very good. I'm
impressed. Has really tried to work with us. I'm not asking him to build this fence and
we do want a concrete wall and you can see everybody that backs up to that has signed
that petition. I don't know if that got handed around, but we have talked about it long
and hard. I was actually amenable to the apartments and I -- I worry about C-C. Yes, a
dance studio sounds great and wonderful behind us, but in six months time I'm not -- I
don't -- there is no guarantee they are still in business. A restaurant could go in there.
We have absolutely -- anything approved in a C-C area could move in there. Now, I
hope the dance studio goes in and stays 30 years plus. I hope I'm long gone, dead and
buried by the time they run out of business. But we don't -- we don't have any
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July 19, 2018
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guarantees and if you have ever noticed, 25 feet is about over here. So, I'm standing
about 25 feet back there. That's -- that's actually pretty close and anything could go in
there that is approved in a C-C if they go out of business. So, that is a concern. A
wood fence does not -- and I can show you a hundred studies -- show -- well, over a
hundred -- I could show you a couple thousand, probably, that show a wood fence does
not block any sound. To block sound you have to have mass and so that's why I'm
asking for either a precast concrete -- I thought a CMU wall might be slightly more cost-
effective. Split-face is attractive, used in a lot of places and you see it all over the
valley, trying to delineate between commercial and residential and while I know we are
in an R-8, we are actually built out at 4.15 units per acre, just barely over R-4, and we
are backing up to C-C, the highest level being C-G. There is an awful lot allowable in a
C-C and without guarantees. I'd kind of like to be able to enjoy my backyard and so I
am requesting that this be attached to the plat that whoever buys it knows and is aware
of the fact that we really want this and it is appropriate to place that between C-C and
residential. I think when I retired from the Commission staff said that my -- my mantra
no C-G next to residential would be called the Marshall Plan, so commercial and
residential are not very compatible and we are trying to make it so in this case. So, if
you have any questions for me.
McCarvel: Thank you. Anyone else, Chris?
Johnson: Madam Chair, Wendy McKinney.
McKinney: Hello. My name is Wendy McKinney. I'm at 1225 Bacall Street and am very
close to this subdivision that's going in and we have been working on the Linder Village
Development as well and as residents we are just so grateful to be working with a
developer like this one, who has worked with us, who sat down with us from the get go
and said this is what we want. What do you want? And actually having a discussion
with us, because other developers -- we have been trying to work with have not been at
all the same and so I'm just here to say thank you for a great developer in this area.
McCarvel: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the room that wishes to testify on
this application? Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Gosser: Trevor Gosser. Do I just -- are you asking me to comment?
McCarvel: Yes. Go ahead and state your name and address for the record.
Gosser: Okay. Trevor Gosser. 74 East 500 South, Bountiful, Utah. 84010.
McCarvel: Any other comments to the public --
Gosser: I guess I would be interested to know what you guys think about that and,
then, I could comment on -- on that, too. I mean -- I guess, Bill or Sonya, what is typical
-- what -- what usually happens in -- in this situation?
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July 19, 2018
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McCarvel: What does our code require, Sonya?
Allen: Madam Chair, basically, what Bill already stated -- a buffer to residential uses.
Part of that buffer can be a fence or a wall. It isn't a requirement. It is something that
can certainly be requested by the applicant. It's up to the Commission and Council
whether or not they require that.
McCarvel: Okay.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Given that this is a C-C zone, I actually favor the option and I don't
necessarily mean that you have to build it, but as part of the building permit that that's,
you know, something that the builder would have to put up, would be my
recommendation and so it's not tied to you, but I would be curious to see if you were
amenable to that or if it's -- you know, I would imagine that would affect selling rights to
the property as well and --
Gosser: We are under contract, you know, and so there is going to be push back, you
know, obviously, and --
Yearsley: Right.
Gosser: -- and a wall like this definitely isn't cheap to -- to build, you know, so I was -- I
was trying to abide by code, you know, and I -- I appreciate where they are coming
from. I do. I appreciate where they are coming from. I feel like we are going to have a
lot of trees out there. There is a good buffer. There is already a fence there. But,
again, I -- you know, it's got to come back before the Commission again when they
come in for their -- their design review and the residents -- you know, I welcome them to
come and -- and, you know, ask for it at that time when a building permit is actually
going to be issued.
Yearsley: Just clarify that, with this -- with this preliminary -- with this they don't have to
come in for us -- before us before a building permit, do they?
Gosser: Don't they need to come in and do a design review?
Yearsley: They do with the Planning and Zoning, but not before the Commission.
Gosser: Okay. It's Planning and Zoning.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Gosser: Yeah. Sorry.
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July 19, 2018
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McCarvel: Because at that time we can say, okay, dance studio, fine, you don't need it.
A restaurant, yeah, you do.
Yearsley: Yeah. So --
Gosser: Okay.
Yearsley: So, that's the concern is it does not come back before --
Gosser: I got you.
Yearsley: -- the public --
Gosser: Okay.
Yearsley: -- hearing type situation, so -- you know, I have -- well -- and I -- I will say one
last thing and, then, I will -- I will concede to what the other Commissioners have said.
Given that this is two narrow lots and, you know, you have the church to the -- to the
south there, it's going to look kind of funny having a -- my guess is the church probably
has a vinyl fence and, then, a small block fence and we don't know what's going to
happen around the other corner. So, it could kind of stick out like a sore thumb as well.
So, no, I -- at that point I will -- I would be interested to see what everybody else has to
say.
Perreault: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I agree with Commissioner Yearsley. I feel like that the zoning necessitates
something more significant than what's there currently.
Gosser: What about a berm? A landscape berm?
Yearsley: So, can you help me understand how -- how high? What -- what's your --
Gosser: I guess that's -- that would be -- you know, if there was like a -- a four foot
berm or five foot berm with trees on it, you know, that would, obviously, be a sound
barrier. I guess I -- I don't know for sure what the cost difference is between a berm and
-- and a CMU fence, but I know a CMU fence is going to be very expensive to -- I mean
I think that back wall there is 350 feet or so, so it's a big stretch and we are going to be
excavating and we can probably move dirt --
Yearsley: Okay.
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July 19, 2018
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Gosser: -- you know, over to -- to the landscape area pretty easily when -- when they
go to build, which would also -- you know, I think Joe was concerned about sound and I
think, you know, a berm, you know, provides pretty good sound barrier as well. So, I --
you know, that -- that's another option I would look forward --
Yearsley: So, I'll speak since no one else -- I would be amenable to a berm, a four or
five foot berm with what -- what's a medium size fence. You know, it doesn't have to be
-- I don't want -- not be ten feet tall, but if you did like a four foot berm with a four foot
fence, you know, something like that, with -- with landscaped I think would be an
appropriate option I think. Kind of a compromise if that would be amenable to you.
McCarvel: Yeah. And I guess especially -- you know, I don't know how we word it and I
know this stuff is always hard to catch later on, but since it's not coming back again in
front of us, but -- you know, I hate to have a horrible amount of expense if it is going to
come through as a dance studio, but if it comes through something -- with more noise --
Gosser: Can you not attach that to the plat saying what type of a use?
McCarvel: I think if it came in with, you know, a more active use or noisier use with
trucks and everything, then, you need the CMU fence and if it comes through as a
dance studio the berm and a fence is just fine. Yes? No?
Holland: I agree.
Perreault: I agree.
Yearsley: So, I guess we look to legal and -- and staff to see if that's how we can
condition that to make it work.
Perreault: Madam Chair, one more. The -- this letter that we received right before we --
we met also discusses moving the location of the fencing. Do we want to have a -- want
to talk about that? Is there any question or concern in that regard?
McCarvel: I think a residential fence --
Gosser: I think what happened -- correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, is that the fence isn't on
your property; right? I mean it's -- it's pushed further into your property; right?
Gosser: Yeah.
Yearsley: Yeah. So --
McCarvel: Yeah. That's what I'm seeing, it's the residence fence --
Yearsley: Yeah. We are not moving the residence fence, just have them put the fence
on the property line.
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July 19, 2018
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Perreault: Okay. I just want to make sure that was clear.
Yearsley: Yeah. So, I guess direction. You know, can we condition based on the use,
what type of --
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, that would have been a
development agreement requirement that came with annexation. We are at -- we are
platting. We are only creating lots, we are not creating new --
McCarvel: Okay.
Parsons: -- restricting uses on this particular property.
Yearsley: That was my concern.
Parsons: Your option could be is if you want to move this forward this evening with a
recommendation is you can have Mr. Gosser work with the neighbors and, then, ten
days prior of the Council hearing they can provide -- provide an exhibit on how they
think they can mitigate the neighbors' concerns with a wall-berm combination, fence-
berm combination and we can include that is part of the record with the plat.
McCarvel: I like that. Okay.
Yearsley: Okay.
McCarvel: Thank you.
Yearsley: I like that idea.
McCarvel: Yeah.
Yearsley: Thank you.
McCarvel: All right. Thank you. All right. So, at this time could I get a motion to close
the public hearing for item H-2018-0067?
Yearsley: So moved.
Perreault: So moved. Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on H-2018-
0067. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
Page 15 of 41
McCarvel: Well, I think we got most of it worked out with the applicant. I like where we
ended up with that.
Yearsley: Well, I -- Madam Chair, I agree. I think with -- we can come up with a fair
compromise between the applicant and the -- and the residents and it sounds like they
have done a very good job in the past, so I feel confident that they can come up with a
resolution, so --
McCarvel: Okay.
Holland: Madam Chair, I tend to agree. I think -- it sounds like this applicant has
worked well with the neighbors and I'm sure that they can come up with a decision of
how to move forward a recommend to City Council when the applicant comes forward.
McCarvel: And they have the one request of being able to pull the one building permit
before recording it. I think I'm okay with that.
Yearsley: Yeah.
McCarvel: Okay.
Yearsley: So, Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: After considering -- after considering all staff and applicant -- applicant --
excuse me. Let me start over. After considering all staff, applicant, and public
testimony, I move to recommend approval to City Council of file number H-2018-0067
as presented in the staff -- staff report for the hearing date of July 19th -- 19th, 2018,
with the following modifications: That Item 1.1.5 be modified to allow one building
permit to be pulled at CZC approval and that -- recommend that the applicant and the
adjacent homeowners work together to come up with a -- a landscaping-fencing
recommendation prior to City Council.
Perreault: Second that motion.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to recommend approval on H-2018-0067
with modifications. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing for Tanner Creek ( H-2018-0023) by
Schultz Development Located at 505, 521, 615, 675 W.
Waltman Ln.
1. Request: Replacement of the existing Development
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July 19, 2018
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Agreement with a new agreement to accommodate the
proposed residential development plan; and
2. Request: Amendment to the Future Land Use Map
contained in the Comprehensive Plan to change the land use
designation on 37.87 acres of land from Commercial
to Medium High Density Residential; and
3. Request: Rezone of 38.48 acres of land from the C-G to the
R15 (west 22.59 acres) and R-40 (east 15.89 acres) zoning
districts; and
4. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 141 building lots and
18 common area lots on 37.87 acres of land; and
5. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family
development consisting of 272 dwelling units in the R-40
zoning district
McCarvel: At this time we will open the public hearing for H-2018-0052, Fairbourne
Development and we will begin with the staff report.
Johnson: Madam Chair?
Allen: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the next application is actually
called Tanner Creek.
McCarvel: Oh, sorry. I still had my thing from last week. I'm sorry. 2018 -- H-2018-
0023, Tanner Creek.
Allen: Thank you.
McCarvel: No. Thank you.
Allen: The following applications are before you. A request for a Comprehensive Plan
map amendment, rezone, preliminary plat and a conditional use permit. There is also a
request for a development agreement modification, but that is not before the
Commission tonight. That's only a City Council decision. This site consist of 37.87
acres of land. It's zoned C-G and is located at 505, 521, 615 and 675 West Waltman
Lane on the north side of I-84, west of South Meridian Road. Adjacent land use and
zoning. To the north is West Waltman Lane and rural residential property, zoned R-1
and RUT in Ada county. To the east are -- is vacant commercial land, zoned C-G and
some single family residential properties. To the south is I-84 and across I-84 is
Mountain View Equipment, Wahooz, and Roaring Springs, zoned on C-2 in Ada County
and C-G respectively. To the west are single family residential properties in The
Landing Subdivision, zoned R-4. This property was annexed back in 2006 with a
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July 19, 2018
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requirement of a development agreement. In 2008 a preliminary plat was approved for
Browning Plaza Subdivision. Several time extensions were approved, but the plat
expired on April 7th of 2018. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation
is commercial. The applicant is proposing to replace the existing development
agreement with a new agreement to accommodate the proposed residential
development plan. The provisions of the existing agreement are included in Exhibit A-9
of the staff report. The existing development agreement recorded in 2008 is for a
400,000 square foot commercial development consisting of professional offices, a hotel,
big box retail store, and smaller retail spaces distributed among 21 separate buildings
that was previously planned to develop on this site. Since many of these provisions no
longer apply to the proposed residential development, the applicant wishes to replace
the agreement with a new development agreement based on the proposed
development plan. Staff has reviewed the existing provisions that are still applicable to
the development of this property and have included them in the new development
agreement. This application does not require Commission action, only City Council, but
the other applications associated with this project are contingent upon the development
agreement modification. Amendment to the future land use map is proposed to change
the land use designation on 39.25 acres of land from commercial to medium high
density residential as shown there on the map on your right. The applicant's narrative
states that because the site is located between a quarter and a half mile west of South
Meridian Road, a principal arterial street, on a local street, West Waltman Lane,
commercial development is not viable. Therefore, the applicant requests an
amendment to the future land use map in order to develop residential uses on the site.
There are two parcels located at 737 and 755 West Waltman Lane and those -- if you
can see my pointer here -- are right there. They are included in the map amendment
request, but they are not part of the proposed development plan. Staff requested the
applicant include those parcels as leaving the two properties with a commercial
designation would not be compatible with existing abutting residential uses and future
residential development if the proposed map amendment is approved. The applicant
did send letters -- letters to those property owners. Geronimo Martinez at 737 West
Waltman Lane and Steven Cooper at 755 West Waltman Lane, notifying them of the
intent to include their properties in this application and included a request for them to
indicate their preference of maintaining the current commercial designation or
agreement with the amendment to medium high density residential, but received no
response from either property owner. The requested future land use map amendment
and proposed single family detached townhomes and multi-family housing would
provide a transition in uses and zoning between the single family residential subdivision,
zoned R-4 to the west, and the commercial designated properties, zoned C-G, to the
east. Additionally, the Ten Mile Creek will provide a natural one hundred foot wide
transition and buffer area along the east boundary of the site between the proposed
residential and future commercial development. You can see this kind of blue line right
here, that's the location of the Ten Mile Creek and it runs right down along the east
boundary of the site. A rezone of 38.48 acres of land from the C-G to the R-15 zoning
district and the R-15 would be the west 22.59 acres and the R-40 district, which would
be the east 15.89 acres, is proposed consistent with the proposed map designation of
medium high density residential. So, basically, the R-15 portion would be all of this area
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July 19, 2018
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where the single family residential development is and, then, the R-15 -- R-40, excuse
me, would be all of this where the multi-family as proposed. The applicant has
submitted a site plan, which depicts single family detached dwellings along the
perimeter boundary of the single family portion of the site with townhomes internal to the
development and multi-family on the eastern portion of the site. A large central
common area is proposed within the single family portion of the site and a common area
is proposed within the multi-family as well, linear as well as an area where there is a -- a
swimming pool proposed. Amenities for the multi-family development are separate from
that of the single family development. Conceptual building elevations, photos and
renderings, were submitted that depict the general style of development proposed for
the subdivision. All structures, except single family residential detached homes, are
required to comply with the design standards. Additionally, because the rear and/or
sides of structures on Lots 2 through 9 and 38 -- excuse me -- 33 through 48, Block 3,
and lots 2, 7, 9 and 14, Block 10, that face Waltman Lane and I-84 are highly visible.
These elevations should incorporate articulation through changes in two or more of the
following: Modulation, projections, recesses, setbacks, popouts, base, banding,
porches, balconies, material types or other integrated architectural elements to break up
monotonous wall plains and roof lines that are visible from the subject public streets and
that are -- that would be these lots right along here where my pointer is at and, then,
these lots right along here at the north boundary of the site. To ensure this site
develops as proposed and recommended by staff with this application and in accord
with the Comprehensive Plan, staff recommends a development agreement is required
with the rezone contain the provisions included in Exhibit B of the staff report. A
preliminary plat is proposed as shown that consists of 141 building lots, consisting of
126 single family residential and 15 multi-family residential lots and 18 common area
lots on 37.87 acres of land. A phasing plan is proposed as shown that proposes four
phases of development. Access is proposed via two accesses from Waltman Lane, one
for the proposed single-family portion of the site and one for the multi-family portion.
This one right here where my pointer is at is the multi-family access and over here
further to the west is the single family access. An existing stub street West Ruddy Drive
-- and that is right here at the west boundary of the site -- is proposed to be extended to
Waltman Lane with development. A stub street is proposed to the out parcel at the
northwest corner of the site for future access and that would be right here. A concept
plan was submitted that depicts how those two properties could redevelop in the future.
That is as shown. At the request of emergency services, staff is recommending private
streets are provided within the multi-family portion of the site for addressing purposes.
Waltman Lane is required to be improved as half of a 36 foot wide collector street
section, plus 12 feet of additional pavement, for a total of 30 feet with curb, gutter,
sidewalk and a gravel shoulder. Improvements to Waltman Lane will require the
construction -- reconstruction of the existing bridge over the Ten Mile Creek. As part of
this application the applicant proposes to enter into a cooperative development
agreement with ACHD to construct the extension of Corporate Drive north of this site,
from its current terminus north of the Ten Mile Creek to Waltman Lane. I don't know if
you can seen that up here, but if you follow this -- there it is right there. Corporate Drive
currently dead ends right here where my pointer is at and with this development it --
they will construct a bridge and extend Corporate down to Waltman there. This will take
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July 19, 2018
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place as part of the first phase of development and will provide additional access to the
site and the area and provide for access while the Ten Mile Creek Bridge on Waltman
Lane is reconstructed. Street buffers are required to be provided along West Waltman
Lane and I-84 in accord with UDC standards. Staff recommends the entire street buffer
and sidewalk along Waltman Lane and the entire street buffer, including the berm and
wall along I-84 is constructed with the first phase of development. Qualified open space
and site amenities are proposed in accord with UDC standards. A total of 6.87 acres of
common open space and eight site amenities are proposed. Site amenities for the
overall development consist of a clubhouse, swimming pool, two playground areas, park
area, Pergola shade structure, fire pit and a ten foot wide multi-use pathway along the
Ten Mile Creek and a pedestrian bridge over the creek for connectivity to the east. A
ten foot wide multi-use pathway is proposed along the east boundary of the site
adjacent to the Ten Mile Creek and along with the bridge I mentioned to the east for
future interconnectivity. Noise abatement is required for residential developments
adjacent to state and federal highways. The applicant is proposing a nine foot tall berm
and a four foot tall SimTek granite wall adjacent to I-84. That diagram here in the lower
right-hand corner is a cross-section of the berm and wall and this is a detail of the wall
here at the bottom. A conditional use permit is requested for a multi-family development
consisting of 272 dwelling units in 14 structures on 15.89 acres of land in the R-40
zoning districts in accord with UDC table 11-2A-2. The units will be housed in a mix of
eight, 16, and 24-plex two and three story structures ranging in size from 779 to 1,258
square feet. A mix of one bedroom -- there will be 70 of those. Two bedroom, 136 of
those. And three bedroom, 66 units are proposed. A minimum of 509 parking spaces
are required with 272 of those being in covered carport or garages. A total of 537
spaces are proposed with 272 being carport spaces, for a total of 28 spaces above and
beyond UDC standards. There has been no written testimony received on this
application that staff is aware of. Staff is recommending approval with the conditions in
the staff report and a new development agreement also with the conditions in the staff
report. Staff will stand for any questions.
McCarvel: Any questions for staff? Okay. Thank you. Would the applicant like to
come forward?
Schultz: Good evening, Madam Chair and Commissioners. Matt Schultz. 8421 South
Ten Mile in Meridian. Happy to be here. We have been working on this project for
about a year now getting it designed and planned with all of our consultants and
working with staff and we realize it's a high profile project right at the Meridian
interchange and there is a high hurdle to jump in changing a comp plan. You know,
that's not something we do just randomly. We realize that it's a high hurdle to jump, but
however in this particular case we believe it's -- it's warranted and we believe we have a
good application for this site that adds a lot and brings a lot with it to improve a lot of the
amenities and the transportation issues, as well as just a good land use for this
particular site is my goal to -- to present that to you, so -- so, with that I will jump right
into the comp plan amendment, which changes commercial -- back in 2006 an
application was submitted, took them two years to get some commercial approved,
several hearings -- at Planning Commission, several hearing at City Council, MDC, they
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July 19, 2018
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negotiated a three million dollar transportation funding tax credit deal. At the time, if we
remember, none of the -- none of the split corridor was done. The Meridian interchange
was not redone. The Ten Mile Interchange was not there. I think the only commercial
going on at the time in Meridian was Portico -- our almost Governor Ahlquist was
working on that, putting together an assemblage and did -- did the Portico and
somebody came along and said, hey, this would be a great place to do some
commercial. I think at 50,000 foot it probably was. When you get down to lower level
and look at its location and its access and its frontage, it's not good. It's not good at all.
If you look at all the commercial in town that's within, you know, 500 feet of a main
access, this is a dead end, a local road, and for a site this size, 38 acres, if you look at
the site next to us of being 31 acres, it's really a 69 acre site if you will with multiple
owners under it. It's really a mixed use site. What we are saying is the east 31 is
commercial, especially since this -- that time ten years ago ITD is no longer ITD on the
corner, that's privately held, under commercial ownership now, so it's a little bit of a
misnomer on the comp plan where it says green and ITD that's -- that's -- red is
commercial or it really should be in the next comp plan. So, really, this 31 acres to the
east of us that's for sure commercial. So, what do we do with this 38 that's in the back?
It's a quarter mile away from its main access. In my experience in 20 years in the
business for being commercial size you need exceptional, outstanding, fantastic -- all
the superlatives -- frontage access. This does not have it. This has highway frontage
as you go by in about ten seconds at 65 miles an hour, but it does not have any
frontage access, it's -- it's -- it's a -- it's a ten -- tenth layer commercial site. It will never
get developed commercial if we leave it. It was a speculative throw in a time of a lot of
speculation and it was a bad bet that it was going to go commercial. At the time they
had Target lined up at first, they fell out, and, then, it comes back as some options and it
just -- it's just never going to work there, so -- and we have -- we have asked a lot of
different consultants about this. It's -- so, what we have is some -- some existing
residential that really needs to be transitioned. We have got some buffering along the
interstate all the way through the valley that's -- if you -- if you have driven as much --
we have all driven it a lot, there is not a really good example of a really good buffer on
the freeway, except for maybe Touchmark by the hospital, it's -- it's all landscaping, nice
fountain, and some big trees -- no offense, but at least looks good. The rest of it is a
hodgepodge -- not good. You know, somehow the fence and -- and no landscaping or
dead landscaping or -- or whatever, it's just -- there is just not a good example. So, we
want to present something that -- that looks good as we come in from the west into
town, finishes off at least that first quarter mile before we get to the hard corner with an
nice berm transition into downtown and from the last application you heard we don't
have a problem building a berm, we don't have a problem building a wall and that nine
feet is a great sound buffer. So, let's move on from our comp plan change arguments,
okay? It's just not going to work commercial, so let's show it for residential. So, what
do we do? So, we have a good -- a good transition of the Ten Mile Creek on the east
side. We wanted to line up some multi-family there and, then, the rest of it transitions to
mixed product, single family residential on the rest of it and this was how it laid out.
One of the considerations was that Ruddy had to connect. We tried to say, hey, ACHD
do we really have to connect to this? Yes, you do. Okay. You know, we realized traffic
is to change out here between the existing residents -- it's just -- it's just going to
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July 19, 2018
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change. There is no way around it. ACHD wants it to change. Connectivity is good.
And from a planning standpoint it may be bad for a few residences short term, but in the
long term it's better for the whole area to have interconnectivity, especially this close to
the Meridian interchange only a half mile away. It's really going to promote I think more
rideable, drivable -- all those things into downtown more so from residential and I think
in that regard it's good in that -- in that respect and to that end we are going to put a
pathway along the Ten Mile Creek. We are proposing a pedestrian bridge. Nampa-
Meridian Irrigation has bought off on this, putting in a pedestrian bridge, which will
happen, so we think that we have got that handled. We agree with all staff's comments
and conditions, except this one, which is pretty amazing. They usually do a pretty good
job. And this has to do with phasing, you know, what improvements are due with
phasing. Like staff said, we are going to do Corporate bridge extension with our phase
one and they would like us to also do the full frontage of Waltman landscaping and
improvements in phase one. That's okay. With phase two, which we are stating is the -
- the northern portion of the department, they said do the full length of the pathway and
the bridge. That's okay, too. The berm -- I would rather put that off onto phase three
and four, only because I need a lot of dirt to build it. I would rather -- I would rather
have some flexibility. We are not up against the freeway, we would like to put the berm
on -- on the highway out and we are not -- it's not because of money and -- it's about
maintenance, too. It gives us a mass of people to contribute to the maintenance as
well. So, that's our only request. And that ended up being condition -- it shows up in
two spots, 1.1(j) and 1.2.3. It's the same condition in two spots. We just think it's the
right thing, at the right place. We realize it's high profile, but we want to do everything
nice out there and -- and -- and do the heavy lifting of -- of replacing both bridges. The
Walmart bridge is substandard today. Before we even touch it needs to get replaced.
Our responsibility is technically widening it on our side and that's how the split came
about is I think 70/30 or 70 -- 80/20 or something with ACHD. And it's about the same
split on Corporate and we are happy that ACHD has stepped up. We have stepped up.
We know it's important to the city that we do Corporate, even though our traffic study
says it's not required, because the -- the commercial development that was approved
ten years ago had three times as much traffic as this one does. Three times. Which is
amazing. I knew it was going to be a lot more, but I didn't know it would be that much
more. So, with the improvements that have been done since that commercial site was
approved at the -- you know, the one way couplets been done, there is multiple lanes
going out from here with the Corporate, it just works -- it works okay on the traffic.
That's what ACHD says, that's what our traffic consultant says and so we are just happy
to participate in adding that loop, so it's not a -- it's not really a dead end if you
connect to Ruddy, but we really don't want Ruddy to be only secondary access, you
know, being a half mile to Linder still and so winding -- winding through a neighborhood.
So, Corporate would be a good secondary loop. The right of way already is there.
ACHD purchased that a few years ago or I don't know how many years ago, but they
purchased this, so the right of way is there, which is good, we just need to build it, and
the city also wants us to extend a water line down that to have a good loop and, then,
we are also going to put the water line that's currently on the top of the bridge on
Waltman, we are going to put that under the creek. So, the reason for the phasing is we
are going to build Corporate first and the traffic will go over that way and, then, we will
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July 19, 2018
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just have to take the whole bridge out and have it shut down while we rebuild it, redo the
utilities. In the meantime you will have two connections, Ruddy and Corporate, and,
then, once you get Waltman rebuilt you will have everything good. So, like I said, we
agree with staff's conditions of approval. I don't know if staff had that -- did you have
that 3D flyover? Would it be okay in part of my time if we show that 3D visualization we
had our Breckon Consultants do to the kind of visualize this.
McCarvel: Yeah. I think you're good on time, Matt.
Schultz: I think it's about four minutes or something, so I will just let you guys watch and
I might comment a little bit as we drop down from a thousand feet or so. I don't know
what that elevation is, but -- there is actually some kind of corny music in the
background, you can't hear it probably. So, we are turning -- going left looking back
down to Waltman Lane. Looking to the south now over the apartments. Going down
Waltman, looking down over the berm on Waltman. There is that music. So, Waltman
Lane has got a good buffer. And, then, we come into -- I think they were looking south
when we passed Corporate, now we are going in on the residential portion. It's a
residential collector. No on front housing. Tree lined. Detach sidewalks. It connects to
Ruddy. Now we are looking at the park there at the curve. It curves into Ruddy. That's
our central open space. A couple acres. Plenty big. As you can see the scale, it's
good to see the people in there for the scale of it. I'm kind of excited -- I'm excited on
these plans. Now we are heading kind of to the southeast over the -- over the
apartments. To kind of give you -- there is two stories along the -- the residential --
single family residential, those are twos we are looking at right now. The two stories.
It's a row of two stories. And, then, it switches to three stories next to the Ten Mile
Creek, next to the commercial. It's -- two stories are really subtle in their height. They
are just -- there is just no height to them at all. Even the threes don't look that high. Of
course this is going to go through design review. These aren't the exact colors, exact
everything, so it's artist conception at this point. This is a 5,000 -- or, yeah, excuse me,
5,000 square foot clubhouse, pool and a fire pit and exercise room and all the things to
go with that. Here he's backing up to the Ten Mile city pathway, which there is a city
sewer line underneath there right now, so it doubles as their access road. The flowers
are nice when you get spring bloom there. But those are the three stories. Even those
don't seem too -- too tall. You know, there is some four stories around town. And there
is good interconnectivity between the apartments -- the apartments to that pathway, as
well as the parking lot to that pathway and, then, I wanted to show you the berm going
down the freeway, doing a little slalom here I think, coming down I-84, just to kind of
show you the apartments, the nine foot -- the nine to ten foot berm. There is a wall on
top and as we transition to the single family we are -- we want to limit those -- I don't
know if staff mentioned it, but we want to limit those a single story. You know, those --
that's how these were drawn. As you can see, we are not having two stories over it.
So, that's kind of it. They are set further back than the existing homes are to the west of
us. That's all there is. Hey, Sonya, I think we are done. Thanks. We don't need
Breckon's little advertisement on here anyways. Beckon Design did a good job. Yeah.
But -- but we did -- our berm is further back than the existing one, but it's -- at least it's
higher. It is wider. The homes are further back from the highway and, then, the existing
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July 19, 2018
Page 23 of 41
homes and we want to limit them to single stories and I don't think that got put in there,
but that's what we want to do. And, in fact, the articulation that's kind of a little bit of a
waste on -- on those, because they are hidden behind the berm, but, you know,
whatever. It's okay, you know, as long as they are single story I think that takes care of
it. So, we want to do that to get a visualization on that berm primarily, but also do the
flyover so you get -- how does that berm look, what's -- how do the house as you're
going down the freeway, going down that way, and that was important for us to depict
and it's showing -- it's all drawn to scale and -- I didn't tell them how to draw it, they just
drew it and that's how it came out, so -- with that we just think we have -- we have got a
good replacement. It does some heavy lifting over this -- heavy lifting on the city
pathway. Good berm. Good wall. Good mix of density to give us some -- I think some
good residential mass and even COMPASS talks about how this is going to promote,
you know, walkable, bicycle, you know, to downtown. This is on the edge of downtown,
but it's included in the downtown area map, so -- so, we think it's a good -- a good
match for this location. I will stand for any questions.
McCarvel: Matt, on the exception that you're asking for, do you want those in phase
three -- the berm in phase three and four? When are you anticipating three and four?
Schultz: As far as years out?
McCarvel: Yeah.
Schultz: It could be in a couple years, but I think phase one and two won't be all the
way built out by the time we are starting phase three and building phase three. It's kind
of a work in progress. I just want to use all the dirt coming out of the whole site to build
this berm, which will probably 15, 20 thousand yards of dirt, you know, and we kind of
need it to develop the whole site to -- I hate to open up the whole site just to get that
berm built with phase one and leave -- leave a big dirt -- open dirt sore up there, since
we are not up against the highway with phase one and two. If Council and you say no,
no, no, we went phase one, so be it. It's just something I asked for to kind of spread out
the phasing a little bit.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Any questions? Commissioner Holland.
Holland: In phase three, those three properties that are the south side of apartment
complexes, are those going to be two story on those ones to match with the berm?
Schultz: Yeah.
Holland: That's going to be two story?
Schultz: Madam Commissioner and Commissioner Holland, we did make -- in fact, this
one down here we -- this used to be -- you know, it used to be a regular size building --
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July 19, 2018
Page 24 of 41
oh, man, I just screwed it up. How do I go back? Sorry about that. I hit a button. We
put an extra parking lot in there, because we know that extra parking is important. We
have been through this. So, we got extra parking with that, you know, so we eliminated
-- we did eliminate that and we made that two stories, because as you -- that's kind of
the critical area right there. So, we wanted to make sure that was, too, and we pushed
it back in that first building parallel to the freeway we did make it two story as well. The
rest of them north of that are the threes. So, we -- we tried to be cognizant of that view -
- tried to wrap the berm around a little bit on an angle right there with that parking lot,
instead of just -- originally we had a straight berm and a building, you know, right up
against the freeway -- eh, that feels a little too close.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Matt, a couple comments -- questions. So, in your photo you have showed
beautiful landscaping against the interstate. How is that to be maintained? Because,
you know, there is a couple of things that I have seen before is -- is a -- they put it back
there, but they give no access back there to maintain it, so it becomes a weed mess
and the trees die and stuff. So, where you are going to be back there or having an
access kind of road back -- to get back in there to maintain that? Are you planning to
mow it? What -- what is your thinking on that?
Schultz: Yeah. Madam Commissioner, Commissioner Yearsley, great point, because
that's exactly the problem with the berms along the freeway, they don't get maintained.
You know, they die over time, weed patches, trees dying, you know, you name it we got
it on the I-84 corridor. So, this is highly important to me and it is something -- that we
had fescue in there. We didn't do the xeriscape, but we -- we -- we may -- we may
propose that as an alternate later, but for now we are doing the fescue like -- like we
have seen at the Ten Mile interchange, you know, irrigated. Some rock and boulders
and some trees and, then, maintained with an access from the -- from the apartment
side for sure. It's the obvious spot that you would be able to get down there and can get
into it. What we have is a situation -- it's kind of -- is this is a 50 foot wide berm, but it's
peaked in the middle. So, what do you do on the part that's behind the wall.
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: Right? What do you do behind that. And so what we have suggested is that
there is a -- there is a -- and we have done this in some other instances where it's a
maintenance access easement for you to do a lot that over that wall, even though it is
part of the -- the distance buffer, you know, it's part of their lot up to the wall to maintain
and, then, behind the wall -- one of the comments of staff in the conditions that it be
maintained by one HOA company, the apartments and the residential portion, so it's all
maintained by one and we are agreeing with that and I think that's very important that
we do that. I want to be here for a long time. I want to be proud of this. I don't know if
that holds any weight or not, but, you know, we are going to do all we can to keep this
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July 19, 2018
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thing maintained and looking good as an entryway to our city and so we do want to
keep that wall maintained and landscaped and I think we have like one and half times
the required trees along there. You know, we didn't go with the minimum. We wanted
to kind of do some extra, too, along that corridor, so we -- we wanted to jazz it up
beyond the minimums. And your staff -- if they are dying they have the right to go in
and say fix those, replace -- and they have done it before. I have been on the receiving
end of taking over some for the last downturn that we had to go in and clean up some
that way. So, I know you guys still have some enforcement powers to do that.
Yearsley: And, then, just -- so, the south alley-loaded homes, are -- is that an attached
product? Is that like a townhome?
Schultz: Yeah. Yeah. Madam McCarvel and Commissioner Yearsley, I have never
built them yet, but CBH Homes has an attached five and -- four, five and six-plex and
these end up being fives and sixes -- are all attached 12, 13 hundred square feet. Alley
loaded. Can you -- is there a picture of the attached -- we kind of rolled by it pretty
quick in the last go around. Right there on your left.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: I believe that's a six -- no, that's just a four right there. There is just four -- four
sidewalks going up to the front doors and, then, the garage would be in the back.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: And as you know in Meridian, the valley, you have an alley and you have a 20
foot driveway and, then, your building starts and Boise doesn't make you do a driveway.
We have had off street -- off valley parking.
Yearsley: Yeah.
Schultz: Which is good. We need parking, so --
Yearsley: And, then, I think one last question. The bridge over the creek -- so, this is
going to be a -- yeah. It's -- right now it's a bridge to nowhere, but it's future for -- do
you have agreements for them to allow you to put that bridge in from the property
owners or how is that to be --
Schultz: Yeah. So, Commissioner McCarvel and Commissioner Yearsley, we don't
have them in place yet. We do own the entire right of way. The entire Ten Mile Creek
right of way is -- is on our property.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: It's not like it normally is. So, at least we have control over the full right of way.
Now, as far as getting in there and setting the abutments and things like that, we haven't
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went to them yet until we get passed some of this process and say, hey, and, then, if we
get in a bad spot and so thank you for mentioning that, because I was thinking about
having a caveat that, yes, we would like to do a pedestrian bridge or to do a pedestrian
bridge, but we don't want to get caught in a pickle if somebody says you can't get on my
property to build that pedestrian bridge and, therefore, your project can't get signed off.
You know, I just don't want to --
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: -- get in a situation.
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: But Nampa-Meridian Irrigation is okay with it and they are okay with it over
drains. They don't like them over canals. They don't like them over their delivery
canals, so this is considered a natural drain, so they are okay with it in this case.
Yearsley: Thank you.
McCarvel: Any other questions for the applicant?
Schultz: Thanks. Thanks for the water.
Allen: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Sonya.
Allen: Excuse me. Madam Chair, if I may clarify something I said earlier regarding
written testimony. There actually were a couple letters submitted of written testimony.
One from Bill Kissinger and one from Casper Larsen and also some other comments
submitted by a Jerry P, we don't have a last name, from NextDoor. So, I just wanted to
clarify that on the record.
McCarvel: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Do we have anyone signed up, Chris?
Johnson: Yes, Madam Chair. Four people signed in. One is the applicant. The first is
Bill Kissinger.
Kissinger: Yes. My name is Bill Kissinger. My address is 420 Waltman Lane, Meridian,
Idaho. 83642. With respect to the application H-2018-0023, Schultz Development, for
the replacement of existing development agreement, I believe there appears to be a
gross issue regarding the traffic impact and the associated study. I am glad that we
made that clarification. I was a little disappointed when I heard that my original
testimony was not provided, but I would read a couple excerpts out of that just so that --
that we can do that. From -- from what I can discern from the information available
online, the traffic impact study sites a significant increase in traffic volumes, especially
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on Waltman Lane. However, it has minimal road improvements required. Per the traffic
impact study -- I don't know if you had the pleasure of leafing through all 74 pages, but
what I could glean out of it, there was going to be an additional 2,900 additional trips per
day with 90 percent of those concentrated on Waltman Lane. In addition, the project
will connect the existing subdivision to West -- West Waltman Lane with the plan to use
the route through to Linder Road and that's -- again, I was trying to discern that from the
traffic impact study, but when you add in Linder Road and now what looks to -- appears
to be Corporate, there is even more traffic than what the -- the development itself will
produce. Currently Waltman Lane accommodates very little traffic and you can refer to
the study for that, which with the current type of dwellings is understandable and
reasonable. I would ask that anyone who has not traveled down Waltman Lane to do
so. I hope you get that opportunity. Most of the route has no curbs, gutters, sidewalks
and, for that matter, designated bike lanes. Although all of these provisions were
included as part of the main intersection at Meridian Road, they were only included in a
small portion. They have -- in fact, the Meridian intersection includes two left turn lanes,
one through lane, and one right turn lane. This was supposedly to accommodate the
future traffic volumes, which this project will provide. I would have brought pictures if I
knew they were so effective. Compare Waltman Lane to Linder Road, as well as any to
add additional traffic from Linder Road, which already has curbs, gutters, and sidewalks,
makes little sense to me. To accommodate any development in this area -- the project
based on its own traffic study will provide a shorter route to destinations, such as retail
shopping, restaurants and other services. I think I -- some others were Wahooz,
Roaring Springs, very close by to this development -- that would increase the pedestrian
availability and I know what was read was they were going to put it in -- widen the
Waltman Lane with sidewalks down what is, essentially, the south side. I would
conclude that it should be down both sides, maybe even with bike lanes, and it -- which
would, then, better connect to the existing Meridian Road intersection.
McCarvel: Okay.
Kissinger: So, my time is up.
McCarvel: Thank you.
Kissinger: Questions? Thank you.
Johnson: Madam Chair, Kerry Manning and Clair Manning, both signed in, but did not
indicate they wished to testify.
McCarvel: Okay. And that's it?
Johnson: That's it for the sign-ins.
McCarvel: Okay. So, is there anyone in the room now who does wish to testify? Sure.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
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Lorcher: Joe Lorcher. 740 Waltman Lane. I live across the street from this. I'm the
property that's eight and a half acres and I just want to know why we are switching from
commercial to such a dense residential, instead of doing R-4 that's already next to it. Is
there a reason why we are going so high density, instead of the R-4 that the subdivision
to the west is?
McCarvel: We will have the applicant address your question.
Lorcher: Okay. And, then, also I'm interested in Corporate Drive, they are going to put
the bridge in, but the street that -- on his development does not match up to Corporate
Drive, instead it's like 200 feet to the east or to the west, so people are going to come
out of Ruddy Drive, turn onto whatever his name is -- his street is and, then, hit
Waltman Lane and have to turn again to go up Corporate Drive -- why can't his
development loop and connect right up to Corporate Drive, so that four or five hundred
cars coming from the Ruddy subdivision can have a straight access, instead of turning
up on Waltman Lane and I agree with the previous person that just talked -- Waltman
Lane is going to have to be improved on both sides with this kind of traffic. I didn't read
the -- the traffic study. I know there was one out there already. But just fixing one side
is going to -- would be hazardous. We have no traffic on that lane now. We are talking
probably less than 20 trips a day and to go from that to over a thousand trips a days is --
is going to completely change that road and the road is not built to handle that kind of
traffic and so it kind of needs to be rebuilt all the way around. And that's all I had.
McCarvel: Okay. Thank you. And sir.
Manning: So, my name is Clair Manning and I live at 650 West Waltman Lane. I just
jotted down some notes as we were going through here. So, first off, I am very much
against any multi-family units. If I have to live next to a subdivision I really do prefer to
live next to a subdivision with single family homes where people are interested in being
established there and keeping everything nice. So, I do like what he has going on now.
Now it's like cows. Cows are my favorite neighbors. So, one thing I would like to do --
can you bring up the landscape plan. So, the road connecting to Corporate, that goes
along the side of my property, so I was wondering what the plans are in order to -- like
for noise abatement along there, if there is a -- you know, a fence planned or something
like that and what the noise abatement plans are across the street from me and I know
there is like a -- in front of my house there is like a lot of ditches and things like that and
I'd like to understand what the plans are for the irrigation that's going to be, you know,
watering our -- for the land. And I do have a shop that does kind of like -- got up to like
where the -- where the commercial will go through and I don't know how to work with the
developer to get connection to like going to like the garage there and, you know, I -- you
know, I am, as I said, against the -- the multi-use -- or the multi-family homes, but if it
does I -- if you do have to do it, I -- I would kind of ask that you like respect the
neighbors and residential that is there already and maybe it makes more sense to put
those more towards the freeway, instead of like right kind of in front and I don't recall --
or remember mentioning -- asking what the noise abatement was between like the
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buffer between like that subdivision and the other side of the street and I think that's all I
have.
McCarvel: Okay.
Manning: Thank you.
McCarvel: Thank you. Anyone else in the room that wishes to testify? Sir.
Swenson: Michael C. Swenson. 815 Waltman Lane. So, we are right before the dead
end type of thing and I want to reiterate one of my neighbors comments that -- if you go
out there it's kind of like country in the city. I mean we have chickens. We have had
goats and we have survived quite nicely there and the thing that kind of bothers us is,
one, there is no infrastructure there at all as in -- there is one grocery store. There is
one gas station. That's it. There is not much on that end of town. And, especially, if
you're saying there is a connection to Linder coming through there, I mean we had
traffic routed down Waltman Lane from the subdivision that's there now and it was a
disaster. I mean it was -- or Waltman Lane is about a half a mile long and it was
bumper-to-bumper traffic on Waltman Lane and it didn't work. So, I'm worried about
infrastructure. I'm worried about schools, so -- I mean the closest elementary is on
Linder. I mean that's a long ways away. You know, they are not going to walk over
there. I mean there is issues here. Oh. And the last thing is, you know, we want to
make sure we can get on our street when it's all done. I mean everybody says, oh, put
this someplace else. Well, that's not going to happen. I mean they are going to say the
same thing. But we need like stop signs or something, so we can get out, you know,
onto Waltman Lane and not be waylaid by a thousand cars coming the other way.
Thank you.
McCarvel: Thank you. Anyone else that wishes to testify? Okay.
Martinez: Good evening. Geronimo -- Geronimo Martinez. 737 West Waltman Lane,
Meridian, Idaho. 83642. I just moved to the house a couple months ago. I haven't --
nobody say something, you know, about this project. I know because there is a sign of
Waltman Lane about this and I -- I receive these by the mail. So, these -- it came very
surprise to me. The reason why I move to there because it is very nice, quiet. I
planning to do -- remodel the house that I buy, putting all my savings with my wife and
live in quiet -- quiet on the -- on that street. Now, this is -- you know, it is not good for
the plans that I have, basically. Now I see it run the street down into the -- to my
property, very -- very -- the road -- I believe there is some cars going through there.
My point is I moved to this house because of quiet. The quiet and -- and I don't know --
there is a lot of houses planning to build on the future if the project does move forward,
so, you know, this is surprise for me when I -- when I came to the house and see this all
going on, so I save money to buy this house and going to remodel and live in for a lot of
years, because the area is very quiet, very nice, but now -- so, I don't know. Thank you
and --
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July 19, 2018
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McCarvel: Okay.
Martinez: -- for listening. Thank you.
McCarvel: Thank you. Okay. Anybody else? One more?
Cooper: Steven Cooper. 755 Waltman Lane. Could you put up the landscape that --
his plot plan if you could. So, I guess I'm the guy -- and Mr. Martinez -- we are this
corner right here. Okay? There is a future street going in there. So, obviously, some
day or something we are not going to be there. But everybody has said that me and Mr.
Martinez are commercial. We are in Ada county. We are residential. Mr. Schultz and I
have talked. He said, you know, he hasn't contacted anybody. He was standing on my
front doorstep. This is how the conversation went. The one thing we talked about -- he
wanting me to come in and sign whatever you guys have that I'm in agreement with this
project. Well, I'm not commercial. Never been commercial. He was standing on my
doorstep and we were talking and asking about my next door neighbor Mr. Martinez.
Well, he just moved in. He wasn't around. So, I did get a letter from him. I have talked
to him about this project before. One thing that was said to me -- and I don't think he's
really taking in consideration this road. I mean he hasn't talked -- no meetings with any
of the neighbors. I have made a suggestion that he have a lunch date with me and him
and Mr. Corey Barton that I have known since 1983. I mean it -- it's got some history.
As you look -- what Mr. Swenson was talking about, Skyline development, back
whenever The Landing was done, they proposed to put the street down Waltman. Well,
there was one problem, it was -- I think it was with the federal government, that they
were -- they were never going to turn Waltman Lane into an artery or a collector or
anything, because it would put too much traffic in a situation right close to the freeway.
It sounds to me like he's got a -- an apartment complex and it's got 1.5 car spaces per
unit. I want you guys to take a look at the apartment complex on Lake Hazel and Maple
Grove, they missed that by a mile. They are figuring at least 2.5 to 3.5 cars. So, what
are you going to do? It's a safety issue. There is going to be cars parked up and down
Waltman Lane, because he is not going to fit the cars inside the project.
McCarvel: Okay.
Cooper: Thank you.
McCarvel: Anyone else here wish to testify tonight? Ma'am.
N.Swenson: Nancy Swenson. 815 Waltman Lane. We are at the tail end of the lane. I
don't know where you're getting the ideas that you can put so many people on our lane.
The road needs help. I don't know where you're getting the idea -- I know schools are a
separate entity, but if you're putting in a lot of people, they are going to have kids. The
schools every time we turn around are asking for more money, because they are over
full. The subdivision that came in, that was R-4. We live with that. They are all around
our property. When they were putting that in they did channel the people down. They
were allowed to come down through Waltman, while the -- that subdivision was being
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July 19, 2018
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built up. The traffic -- nobody went up Linder. They came down Waltman. You're going
to have a whole lot more people coming down that road, spilling out, not letting -- I don't
see where you're going to put that many people. You're just cramming them in there
and it doesn't fit with the rest of what has been there. So, I'm concerned about this. I'm
concerned about the schools. I'm concerned about the people -- just the numbers of
people that you're going to be putting in to fill in these schools. I am a little concerned
that there is not a wide enough vision here.
McCarvel: Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? I think we have got everybody now.
Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward again.
Schultz: Matt Schultz. 8421 South Ten Mile. Thank you. And thank you, neighbors,
for coming and expressing your comments and concerns. I love the participation that
we have. We did have a neighborhood meeting to begin this process, as is required.
We did notice everybody and had one here and some showed up and some didn't and
we have done everything with the notices and --
McCarvel: Matt, can you --
Schultz: -- told everybody exactly what we were doing all along the way. The big
concern is traffic. ACHD has approved this. Actually, they have not yet. The staff has
approved it. It's on a Consent Agenda next week. The timing is such that it is on the
consent agenda next week. It doesn't mean it will be approved, but there is a high
chance it will be approved. Like I said, this is a 70 percent reduction from and what was
approved ten years ago in the traffic. That's huge. That's a huge reduction. That came
in as over 10,000 trips a day, now we are down I think in the, you know, three -- three
thousand. It's a lot of people. I mean I'm not going to kid you. But we are doing our
share on the traffic of improving our frontage to a collector status. We are doing our
improvements. We are replacing two bridges in conjunction with -- with ACHD. That's -
- that's not ignoring the traffic issue. That's hitting it head on. And that's what we are
doing. Now, is there a section still between the Ten Mile Creek or our boundary out to
Meridian Road that needs a little help? Yes. County properties. County properties to
the north of us. Some of the people that talked are from the county, some aren't.
Maybe they all are. I don't know. But I know the three that are in -- Geronimo and
Cooper and Swenson live -- Geronimo, Cooper, Swenson, they will still be on a dead-
end road. You know, they will still have a dead-end road. If they want to develop it or
don't want move, they don't have to. We are going to put a fence around them, a
landscape buffer around them. That road is not going to -- that will be fenced off and
they are going to be better than they are now in terms of at least their fence and the
landscaping around them. But, of course, they won't have cows for neighbors, but in
that regard it's going to be a nice, new fence at our expense that we are going to build
on the property line and also fill in some gaps that are in some fences on the -- on the --
on our west property line, too, and along the -- the Waltman frontage we will have a
landscape buffer, a berm, and a fence there as well as far as -- as a visual buffer or a
sound buffer and a distance buffer and so we were providing all those things on our
perimeters and boundaries everywhere we can. But the traffic will be improved by
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July 19, 2018
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ACHD. It has not yet, so if you look at a continuance until it does, that's yours, but it is
on a consent agenda next week and I'm going to go and make sure that we don't get
pulled off the consent agenda and talk about it. But that's where we are at. And the
traffic study has been done and I know it's going to be a change. It will be a change. If
you drive back there, he's right, it is nice and quiet as it can be being a quarter mile from
the freeway, but it's nice and quiet back in there in terms of the trees and the cows and
all that. It is. But, like I said, we asked ACHD do we have to connect that back there?
Can't we just, you know, come and do ours and come out and, no, we got to connect it.
You have to connect it for the greater good to connect it. In fact, they are making us -- if
you look at the staff report that ACHD put in there, they are making us set aside 18,000
in a trust fund for them to use for future studies, traffic calming potentially in The
Landing, just not knowing what's -- how the traffic is really going to flow and knowing
traffic is going to change. It's just going to change. It's been like that for 20 or so years.
It is going to change, but interconnectivity changes. This has been 20 years. The
Landing was done 20 years ago and it's been like that for 20 years. So, it is going to
change, but interconnectivity changes things and -- and, unfortunately, I always seem to
be the guy that wants to do it. That nobody likes me. But with that said, density -- we
have -- we are not -- I know it seems super dense. It really does. It looks like we are
super super dense, but in -- in the -- in the realm of planning and things like that we are
not. Even though we are asking for an R-15, our gross density is 5.7 on -- on our
portion. Even though we are asking for R-40, our density of 17.4, which is kind of the
low end for the departments and with the parking, which is -- you know, we have plenty
of parking, so our average is 10.55. So, in the whole scheme of things I know it sounds
like a lot per acre, it really isn't in terms of what it could be in terms of density. I know
that doesn't sound right, but that's just how the numbers work out. It's just not as dense
as people think it is on paper. The numbers kind of tell the story in that regard. Sorry,
my notes are on the back of my presentation here. So, yeah, traffic. ACHD. The
density, we have addressed that. Corporate Drive we kind of come in and kind of had a
split and those are -- like I said, that's all approved by ACHD in terms of the offsets.
Going straight through we didn't feel like was the best way to do it, you might have to
have a traffic signal with the four-way intersection and I like to break them up with T
intersections myself in my designs. Four ways. You're looking for a signal -- you look
for wrecks and that's why you need a signal to prevent the wrecks with the four ways.
So, that's why we kind of offset them and have two separate ones and we are rebuilding
Waltman, our section, and the bridge on our section of Waltman, because we -- we
control the full width of that bridge on our side of the road. As far as the irrigation and
the drainage and the exact designs, we deal with that in the next step of engineering
and we will -- I will get to know my neighbors if this passes, as we get into the next step
of how does your drainage go and we will make sure it all gets incorporated in the
design of this road and that road and everybody at least maintains the same service or
better. I mean our goal is to at least maintain or improve their current situation out there
with regard to utilities. On our fence and all -- Geronimo and Mr. Cooper, they are on a
-- they are going to be on a private dead end run still. We are not changing that and
that whole concept we show on there was just -- staff wanted to see how it could lay out
if they wanted to come in, but they don't have to do anything, you know, but that's just
one way it could -- it could work that I provided for them. As far as parking spaces for
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July 19, 2018
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multi-family, as you all know, we -- we do one and a half for a -- for a single bedroom
and two stalls for every two and three bedroom. We have excess -- we have 20
something access in that regard, plus we have spaces for our clubhouse and so we
have -- we have exceeded the city requirements on parking. So, you know, with that we
really think we are doing some heavy lifting to improve the traffic situation. I understand
it's going to change it, but that bridge is substandard today and if we weren't coming
along and -- it probably wouldn't get it fixed as soon as it will now, but I guess with that I
will ask for your approval with staff conditions, except for that one minor modification to
the phasing. Thank you.
McCarvel: Okay. Any other questions for the applicant?
Yearsley: I do.
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: Madam Chair. So -- so I know you haven't got into the full detail design of
Corporate. Corporate will be built out curb and gutter both sides; correct? Or just one
side or -- how is Corporate going to --
Schultz: Madam Chairman and Commissioner Yearsley, ACHD has told us it will be 30
foot of paving -- pavement with --
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: This is off site to us, but within that 50 foot of right of way, which is what they
have, that particular right of way, the curbs out to the creek, that they have acquired,
that's the section they want to see go in there. Until those two properties develop and,
then, they will provide the curb, gutter and sidewalk.
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: And that's the process they do. These are county properties --
Yearsley: Oh, absolutely.
Schultz: They are in the county.
Yearsley: Okay. So, you are actually putting curb, gutter, and sidewalk on your side of
the street and you will improve -- you will actually widen your side within your frontage --
Schultz: Correct.
Yearsley: -- and you can improve your half street.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
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Schultz: Yeah. We are taking the existing right of way, expanding it by 12 feet and,
then, doing the full improvement for the full width and -- and that will be done with -- with
phase -- phase one.
Yearsley: So -- so just so I understand. So, you're repaving the entire road along -- on
Waltman along your property or just your half?
Schultz: We will see how it looks on that side, if we can match in, because it depends
on grade so that blends in --
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: -- and if the pavement looks okay we will just match in and leave that section
and have plenty of room on our side --
Yearsley: Okay.
Schultz: -- but we will have to replace that if we can't match in vertically --
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: -- with our design with drainage and things like that.
Yearsley: I understand that. Okay. But you're only required to fix your half of the road
per city code and ACHD is what I'm trying to allude to; correct?
Schultz: Yeah. Commissioner Yearsley, ACHD, as you know, collects a lot of impact
fees and things like that, so we are providing a ton of money with our impact fees that if
they so chose they can go -- you know, they spend it over impact fee areas and things
like that and it will -- it will go in some long list of things to do at some point. It's
unfortunate that there is a county storage area to the northeast of us that has the grader
wire on top and a little hill -- dirt shoulder and, then, the road there, instead of
improvements and who knows when that is going to get done.
Yearsley: Right.
Schultz: But if somebody said, hey, Matt, you guys really you are required to do it, you
know, and it was fair that we do it, we would do it, but we -- as far as a precedent I think
we are doing what is required typically of the development community as we come in
and ACHD will do the rest if they need to.
Yearsley: And I'm not asking you to do more, I'm just wanting to make sure we are all
understanding what you're -- what you're doing.
Schultz: Yeah.
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July 19, 2018
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Yearsley: So, the question was asked why not just all R-4? I think you kind of alluded
to that. Could you just kind of talk about the reasons why not to do R-4 all the way
across.
Schultz: Yeah. It's not a good spot for R-4 anymore I don't think. I think in terms of
efficient land use planning where you have services, where you had existing sewer,
where you have existing water, where you have existing access is this is close to
commercial and things like that, this is an excellent location to do a transitional density
and we presented -- it could be something else. This is what we presented. R-4 we
think is -- at this location would be a huge waste of land in terms of the opportunity to
create some -- you know, some density if you will and density is a good thing
sometimes in certain locations and this isn't that dense, like I said, but we think this is
appropriate given its location in proximity to downtown.
McCarvel: Yeah. That was going to be my comment as well, because I realize you
asked for her -- it's R-15, but you're really just a hair over the R-4. The R-15 is more for
your setbacks and all that kind of stuff.
Schultz: Attached.
McCarvel: Yeah. To be able to get those in there and, then, the same with -- as
apartment complexes go, that's not as dense -- I mean it's just a hair over the R-15,
even though it is going to be considered an R-40 designation. But, yeah, it -- it is a
transitional leading up to what is probably going to be next to it, which would be
commercial and no R-4 wants to be near -- right up against the commercial, so -- any
other questions or comments from the applicant? Thanks, Matt.
Schultz: Thank you.
McCarvel: At this time -- if we have no more questions for staff or the applicant, could I
get a motion to close the public hearing for Item H-2018-0023, Tanner Creek?
Holland: So moved.
Perreault: Second.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for H-2018-
0023. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. THREE ABSENT.
McCarvel: Yeah. First glance I was really -- you know, I was -- I have always been
hoping this spot would be some spectacular thing and I realize the access to it's not
great, but I know there is a lot of companies I can -- you know, I think of that have
beautiful landscaping around them that just want visibility -- Scentsy -- I mean, you
know, that don't need a whole lot of retail type access that would have been a lovely
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
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access and entrance into Meridian, but I think -- and what I was also afraid of when I
first started reading this was, okay, we have got apartments along, now we will have
apartments just lining I-84, but with -- I do appreciate the 3-D and all the diagrams that
have come up with the berms and everything. I think it will make a nice addition to the
entryway into Meridian. I am -- I would be concerned and I don't know what kind of
teeth we can put into maintaining that berm, though. I agree with your comments
earlier, they just turn to dirt and dead trees along the interstate. So, I'm hoping that the
HOA fees taken to consideration that they need to provide the maintenance for that.
Overall I think it will be a nice transition to, hopefully, some sort of beautiful commercial
and something fabulous being on that entrance to Meridian, but I am also concerned -- I
mean at some point where do we say with the schools that we need to hold back? But
that's where we open for discussion here.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: You know, this is -- this is a tough situation, especially for the residents
nearby. You have had, essentially, pretty much urban living -- or rural living in an urban
area and, unfortunately, urban is catching up and there are pains associated with that. I
do like the fact that they have tried to -- yeah, for the most part tried to transition from
the R-4s to -- because it's already zoned for a higher density or use on the other side
and -- and as you heard earlier from one of the residents is they don't like R-4 against
commercial and -- and so that's why we try to do a transition plan and not have
everything R-4. This is in the heart of downtown Meridian. Unfortunately, this area is --
is very rural, but it is the heart of downtown Meridian and this is where you want the
density is people can, you know, walk to McDonald's or, you know, get to the grocery
store and life will change. You will not have your 20 cars a day and it's unfortunate, but
the developer had an option to go commercial, which he could have built 400,000
square feet of floor space. They chose to go a different route to do a little bit less busy I
guess if you want -- if you want 400,000 square feet of floor space, that's a lot of
buildings. So, it's -- it will be a lot less busy -- my guess is a lot less noisy than a
commercial development. So, I think it's a -- it's a -- it's a fairly good mix. I personally
think it's a better transition than what was planned to the residents. It may not be what -
- to their liking, so -- but I do think it works well. They do have a lot of good open space.
We are noticing now that a lot of the residents want a bigger house, no yard, and open
space and so that's kind of what they are trying to provide. So, personally I think with
that I -- I think it looks good. I think they have tried to look out for the neighbors,
especially with the apartments going to only two stories around the perimeter and, then,
three stories on the edges are just to the commercial. The development pressures are
there and -- and I think that this area will have a push to -- to redevelop in the future, so
-- so I think I would be in support of this project.
McCarvel: I was -- before you guys jump in I just want to add to your -- I mean it's hard
to believe with the amount of apartment buildings that are going in that we are still
underserved as far as the numbers go with -- versus the population of multi-family
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July 19, 2018
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dwellings. I just -- I still can't believe it, but the numbers show it and even the
COMPASS report shows in the -- especially in this area jobs versus people, that there is
need -- there is still more need for residential in this corner.
Yearsley: And there was one other thing that I wanted to bring up. With regards to the
schools, one of my biggest bone of contention with the school is Meridian High School
is actually underserved right now and so this actually provides actually students for the
Meridian High School. My wife has been on the boundary committee a couple of times
for Meridian School District and Meridian School District has a capacity to handle 3,000
students and it's only got 1,800 students right now and so there is capacity. I don't
know about that elementary or the junior high, but there is some capacity in this area
because of the declining population. So, it does provide a boost for this area, so --
McCarvel: Commissioner Perreault.
Perreault: I think Commissioner Yearsley's made some fantastic points. There is a
huge need for walkability near the downtown area and this is -- this is as good a location
as -- as we are going to get at the moment to do that and I was in a Smart Growth
planning meeting this morning and we were just having conversation about valley wide
that that need for affordable locations near areas where people are working -- near the
commercial areas where people are working and that helps with our transportation.
That helps with -- there is just a whole interconnected group of growth issues that --
that can be helped by these kinds of transitional projects. So, I think that -- that the
developer has done a really great job trying to think through everything that they
possibly can to address the concerns and I think they have tried to think through all the
things we might bring up as well, which we appreciate.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Last, but not least --
McCarvel: Never least.
Holland: So, you know, I was on the fence about this property as well. Coming from an
economic development background I always have a hard time saying goodbye to
commercial properties, because I know there is a lot of businesses looking at the area,
there is a lot of people moving to the area, and making sure that we have got a good
balance of -- of places for people to work, as well as places for people to live, I tend to
side with your first comment, Madam Chair, that even though you would love to see
something like a Scentsy campus or someone that really wants that visibility to be here,
because it's great frontage on the freeway for people to be driving by, people tend to
like having that frontage. Some of the challenges and concerns I see with this project --
I don't have any opposition of the way that -- that it's laid out, I think it makes a nice
transition from an R-4 density towards a commercial. I think I agree with all of you on
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July 19, 2018
Page 38 of 41
that. A couple of my biggest concerns is some of the comments made about Ruddy
Drive connecting in. If you look at that neighborhood to the west, really, they don't have
access to that neighborhood from the east right now. They have to enter through Linder
and so I think that the -- that the traffic could become a challenge coming from that
neighborhood, because a lot of people will use that to get on I-84 to go downtown
Boise, so I think traffic concerns will be intensified a little bit more than maybe what was
expected out of this and, you know, the -- road Waltman I don't think is designed right
now to handle that capacity yet, so -- I mean this developer might need to go back and
take a look at how that would align with ACHD and what we need to do to make sure
that that road is going to meet the capacities of what's required coming forward. You
know, reading through some of what COMPASS had submitted, they had said in their
recommendations that the proposal exceeds growth forecasted for the area.
Transportation infrastructure may not be able to support the new transportation
demands and it's not currently served by public transportation. So, again, transportation
probably is my biggest concern with this project. The only other concern I have is that it
sounds like some of the neighbors haven't had a chance to really walk through some of
the issues with the developer as much as they probably should have at this point. I'm --
I'm tempted to -- to look at continuing it just so that they can work out some of those
issues, especially those two houses that are in that -- that corner of the parcel. Those
are my thoughts.
McCarvel: Okay. Any other thoughts? Any additional new thoughts?
Perreault: Madam Chair, I'm -- I'm not in opposition to Commissioner Holland's
suggestion regarding postponing until after ACHD has had their meeting. I don't --
that's not far away. I don't think that would be harmful it doesn't sound like to the
applicant and if that -- if that's -- if that's going to ease up some concerns and give some
additional time and allow the -- the neighbors to go to that hearing and -- and share their
thoughts I think that --
McCarvel: I don't think -- you guys help me out.
Perreault: Is it public?
McCarvel: Well, it's already -- it's just on the consent agenda. It's already --
Perreault: Oh. Okay.
McCarvel: It's already been --
Perreault: I misunderstood that.
McCarvel: Yeah. I just -- I think they had -- you know, there was a neighborhood
meeting and such already, because I'm not sure what going forward he would be able to
fix, because the land on the other side is not his to fix. I mean -- and it's ACHD's -- I
mean at this point I think Waltman Road would be -- they would -- it would need to be
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
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worked with ACHD. It's not necessarily the developer, because the developer and
ACHD have already -- have worked their site and I think there is more work that ACHD
would need to do with those property owners in the county to get access to -- to work
out those right of ways, so I don't know that continuing it does -- does much.
Yearsley: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Yearsley.
Yearsley: I have a tendency to agree. There are issues with traffic and I will be the first
to admit it. However, the -- the developer has done what ACHD has asked for them to
do to extend Corporate, to replace -- they talked about replacing the bridge. Going
farther to the east it -- it becomes an off -- it -- it's off-site improvements, which don't
typically tend to fall upon the developer per se, especially where it's already annexed
into the city and so I think it becomes more of an ACHD issue as well and, typically,
what happens as those properties redevelop or develop, that's when they make the
improvements, because my guess is a lot of those properties haven't given the right
away to ACHD to do those improvements that are necessary. So, my guess is there is
not the right of way there to do those improvements and so, you know -- you know,
ACHD may consider coming in and paving Waltman just within the area that they have.
It's hard to say what they would want to do. I would recommend that you reach out to
ACHD and express your concerns with that, since the -- the traffic is related to ACHD
and not to the city. We have to -- we have to look at it and address it, but ACHD has
made their recommendations. They are giving two locations to come out of the -- that
area, you know, so you have got access to -- to Waltman and also to Corporate to get
out onto Meridian Road. So, I think it becomes a fairly decent access and, yes, I think
you will have a lot of residents from the R-4 accessing through the subdivision, because
it is a faster way out of that area, so -- but, you know, we -- we -- we have approved
bigger subdivisions than this with huger impacts that -- that I don't think 3,000 cars a
day, even 4,000 cars a day that these two roads couldn't handle adequately.
Holland: Madam Chair?
McCarvel: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: The only other concern I really had was those two properties, Mr. Martinez
and Mr. Cooper's sites, and how it abuts next to this development, because they -- they
have shown us a couple of -- how it could integrate and if -- if those properties were to
work with the project or just how it transitions against them, because it looks like right
now it's just kind of an open road into their property. So, I guess that would be my one
concern is that the applicant would have the time to work with them on that.
McCarvel: I think it's just -- at this point it's just going to be -- it's going to be a dead end
road that says this to be open in the future, so whatever future development might --
might happen there, there is somewhat of a plan for -- for that road to go out to
Waltman. It's -- it's nothing -- I don't think that impacts them now, except they are
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
Page 40 of 41
surrounded by stuff and it's just a plan of how that could be integrated roadwise in the
future.
Yearsley: Madam Chair, I -- I agree. They are talking Waltman to be a collector street.
They don't typically like driveways on collector streets, so what the city is probably
asking is can we integrate -- if those two lots wanted to redevelop, they would lose their
access to -- to Waltman and so they would actually have to come through the
subdivision. That's why the developer had to provide access and so -- and they wanted
to at least make sure that if the property wanted to redevelop in the future he had ability
to redevelop. Doesn't mean he had to, he is -- they are going to fence around, you
know, try to -- try to be amenable to them and so I think that was the only reason for that
roadway is to provide access to them in the future if something had to develop.
McCarvel: Yeah. And I think Mr. Martinez can stay in his beautiful little property in the
middle of the city and, you know, it's probably going to be a little gem back there, you
know, a little hidden gem amongst this other residential.
Yearsley: Yeah. Or my guess if he wanted to sell it he could --
McCarvel: Or if he wanted to sell it he could probably make a lot of money.
Yearsley: Not that he had to, but --
McCarvel: Yeah. Not that you have to. It's totally up to you.
Yearsley: So, I'm going to make a motion. Madam Chair, after considering all staff,
applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to the City Council of
file number H-2018-0023, as presented in the staff -- am I on the right one?
McCarvel: Yeah. Are we -- we didn't discuss the berm -- or the berm --
Yearsley: Oh.
McCarvel: -- the berm and the phase.
Yearsley: So, I guess my recommendation would be to install it as part of phase three.
McCarvel: Yeah.
Yearsley: I understand that he needs the dirt to do that. We -- it's -- it's been a pile of
weeds out there for the last -- well, 20 years since I have been in this -- in this -- in the
valley. Having it be open another five, ten years or less -- I don't know if I see an issue
with that.
McCarvel: Yeah.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
Page 41 of 41
Yearsley: So, if -- if everybody is amenable --
McCarvel: I'm open to letting them have that dirt to be used right there.
Yearsley: So, my only thought is with phase three he has to do the whole thing,
because, you know, if he's going to start it, finish, in my opinion.
McCarvel: Yeah.
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the other item that Sonya and I
had -- we were discussing here is the applicant offered up doing single story homes up
along -- against the interstate. Is that something that you want to entertain as part of
your motion as well to restrict those lots to single story?
Yearsley: That's a good thought.
McCarvel: I think it's -- yeah. If he's willing to do that I think that's fabulous and not to
have -- just a nice clean line back there.
Yearsley: Okay. So, I will try it again. Madam Chair, after considering all staff,
applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend file -- recommend approval to
City Council of file number H-2018-0023 as presented in the staff report for the hearing
date of July 19th, 2018, with the following modifications: That the berm along the
interstate to be constructed as part of phase three in its entirety and that the homes
along the interstate to be single story only and I'm just going to throw this one in here --
not require the articulation as dictated in staff. With the berm being there they won't be
able to see it, so --
Perreault: Madam Chair, second that motion.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to approve file number H-2018-0023 with
modifications. All those in favor say aye. Opposed?
Holland: Nay.
McCarvel: Okay. Motion carries, but, Chris, could we get a roll call.
Roll call: Holland, nay; Yearsley, yea; Perreault, yea; McCarvel, yea; Wilson, absent;
Fitzgerald, absent; Cassinelli, absent.
McCarvel: Okay. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. THREE ABSENT.
Yearsley: Madam Chair, I move we adjourn.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
July 19, 2018
Page 42 of 41
McCarvel: Thank you, Commissioner Yearsley. Would anybody like to second that
motion?
Perreault: I will second that motion.
McCarvel: It has been moved and seconded to adjourn the meeting. All those in favor
say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:11 P.M.
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