1999-11-15
~OEC - 9 1999~~
~;...,~. i.: ._. .__y
Meridian Parks and Recreation Commission November 15, 1999
The regular meeting of the Meridian Parks and Recreation Commission was
called to order by Chairman David Moe at 7:36 p.m.
Present were David Moe, Sheri Baker, Glenn Bentley, Tammy deWeerd, Trace
Leighton, Kristin Smagula and Tom Kuntz.
Agenda: Sheri Baker made a motion to adopt the agenda, Kristin Smagula
seconded the motion. All ayes, the motion carried.
August Minutes: Sheri Baker made a motion to approve the October minutes
Trace Leighton seconded the motion. All ayes, the motion carried.
Public Introductions/Comments: David introduced our new Commissioner
Kristin Smagula, and Norm Landerman-Moore.
Correspondence/Announcements: Tami Smith told the Commission what was
going on with the tree lighting ceremony. The date is December 3.
Theirhause Property: The property around Generations Plaza was purchased on
November 3. Tom showed a conceptual drawing that the Land Group did of a
possible design for the area. We would be adding approximately 10 parking
stalls. The estimated cost is $85,000 and that includes the design and
administrative costs, which is part of the capital budget that we have.
Davis Drain Tiling: Tom met with Sommer Construction who will start tiling Davis
Drain on December 6 and they have a 30 day completion date. David Moe
asked who came up with a 30-day schedule, and Tom told him that we did.
David asked if they were required to clean up the street. Tom said that he
assumed that they were responsible.
Tom said that Boise Parks & Recreation invited us to a meeting on a park for dog
owners. The topic was off leash dogs and they were bringing in a person from
S.California to talk about it.
Old Business:
Speedway lease: Tom let the commission know about meetings that he had with
the Dairy Board and Kenny Hamilton, Mark Brandt from Idaho Parks &
Recreation, Dairy Boards Attorney and 8-10 members of the Dairy board. Mark
Brandt outlined what the options were to this point. The dairy board brought to
the table some minutes from a Council meeting with Mayor Storey and they are
trying to show proof that they did give the land to the city. In exchange they were
suppose to be given a 99 year lease on the back area that we are talking about.
Mark brought 2 file folders with all of the records, including the deed for the land
and there is no attachments or indications of any kind of a lease. At this point it
looks like that land was given to the city and was paid for partially by land and
water conservation funds and therefore it needs to be open and inviting to the
public. There is a possible compromise that was discussed which is that the
fence that block the area now would come down. The speedway would gate the
entrance to the speedway so that people can't get into the speedway itself. We
draw up a 1-year use agreement that would allow them to use it on Saturday
nights and Thursday nights, when they have their time trials. Long range, we
develop a master plan for that site that would have new playground equipment
and more parking that the speedway could also use. Jim Keller asked if the Land
and Water Conservation fund was agreeable to the plan that the speedway do
away with the fence, and us being able to use the rest as parking until we have a
plan together. Tom said that he seemed to think that they would be, but he
needed to check with the National Park Service and get their o.k. also. David
said that he did not want to see us put in the situation that it look like we don't
support the speedway. If the speedway is willing to take care of the cost of the
new fence, gating, and long term, look into either sharing the cost or taking care
of all of the parking, than the city take care of the green space, he felt that should
be a fair compromise in order for them to use that area for their parking too. Tom
said that there was 1 other option, which is the land swap. The question was
brought up what if we bought the Land and Water Conservation Group. Tom said
that he had no problem dealing with the LWCG, their intent is to give money to
develop recreation. The only reason that we are crossing paths with them now is
because we are allowing an area that was purchased with federal grant money to
be leased to a private, profit-making agency. The Commission said that they
didn't have a problem for the speedway to put in the fence, and then give them
the rights to use it for a year for parking, and possibly do a year to year lease.
Tom reminded them that we cannot use the word "lease", because we have
already been warned that the lease is in violation of the project so we should use
the term use agreement.
Jim Keller moved that we go to the board and recommend that provide a use
agreement for one year on the condition that they install the fencing required.
Sheri seconded. All ayes, motion carries.
Comprehensive plan presentation:
Norm Landerman-Moore handed out a draft of the plan. Norm first took the
commission through the index. The index includes first, the existing conditions
regarding the status of recreation is in the community. Second the needs
assessment, dealing with the demands of parks and recreation and level of
service. Third, the parks facility development and operations, objectives, and
costs and funding. And also, policies and standards. The illustrations were not
yet given to Norm, so they will be put in there later. Norm then stated that the
tables in the Comp Plan would become very important reference points in terms
of understanding the plan. There was discussion about who would go into the
acknowledgements regarding the City Council and Commission. Norm first
talked about the growth that the city has experienced through the 90s and the
projections for the future which are 48,000 expanding to a build out of 100,000.
At the present time the amount of park land available to the citizens of Meridian
is about 64 acres, with a level of service of 1.7 acres for every 1,000 residents
the recommendation for the city to use is 6 acres per thousand. This gives you
an idea of the deficiency of parks in the city. Current planning includes a 56-acre
park and a 5-acre site. New park needs indicate an additional 152 acres. This is
in the ten-year plan, and this is in addition to the land that we already have. 10
new neighbor hood parks, 4 community parks and 1 special interest park. Long
term, the city of Meridian needs 348 acres of operational parkland. Norm then
went over the costs for the land. In the discussion, Norm stated that he worked
with John L Scott to obtain the numbers, and they based it on what it would cost
for the school board to obtain property. The price Norm quoted was $1,500,000
for 152 acres. Jim Keller who is an ex- school board member, stated that he
didn't see a way to buy 152 acres of land for one million five hundred thousand.
Jim said that the last land that was purchased by the school board was $35,000
an acre. Norm pointed out the diagram that indicated land prices for residential
land, and land prices for commercial land. Norm stated that, based on
conversations with John L Scott, land could be acquired for that price. There was
some disagreement about this and Norm said that he would adjust that and use
Jim Keller as a reference for the school district. Norm than stated that we would
ask the Council to adopt this as a matter of policy and procedure to curtail or
better manage the land acquisition process.
Sheri asked if the 152 acres was for the long-term plan, and if the 348 was for
development after that. Norm told her that was correct.
The park land acquisition criteria was discussed, there is a 2 step process. First,
there needs to be a committee established out of this commission and a Council
member for the technical review of any properties to be acquired by the city. The
criteria would be site location, condition and accessibility, infrastructure status
and zoning compatibility, economic value and conservation resource value.
The second step in the process would be a criteria list, which would have to
be answered by the committee. This list would be how we would decide if the site
works for programs or service activities. The list is as follows; is the site location
convenient for access by the majority of the intended users? Is the site the right
size and shape to meet development requirements? Is the topography conducive
to net usable space? Is the general surrounding esthetically pleasing? Is the site
safe? Is there air pollution? Is the site free from industrial and traffic noise
generated by the air or surface activity? Does the land drain properly? Are the
soil conditions acceptable? Does the site have trees and vegetation? Is potable
water available? Is the site near other community services? Is there a
relationship to the site with other parks or trails? How is surrounding land
zoned? Are utility services available? Is the site readily available by public
service agencies? Is the site easily accessible for vehicles? Is acquisition cost
affordable and in line with land values? Can the site be shared with other
communities? Is the site expandable for the future and is it suitable for enterprise
of private or public development?
If any response is no, there should be a critical examination as to the
justification of accepting the site.
The site selection committee should be unanimous in its findings and
recommendations before any action is taken. Such a policy protects the
Commission, Director, and Council against the potential of illegal activity in terms
of land acquisition, coersion, and other issues that may arise when dealing with
land and property issues. Lacking such a policy, the Director, Commission, and
Council will be subject to pressures from individuals and organizations that would
have there own agenda. These 2 steps should be adopted as part of the policy
structure for the city.
Norm then went over the recreation service areas, based on the needs analysis,
participation analysis, organization of the community, growth pattern, urban
growth boundaries, population centers, as well as other criteria. The map was
not present to show the commission, but it broke down into 6 service areas.
The maintenance and operations organization structure will need to give greater
emphasis on recreation programming as the community grows. We are very
deficient in programming. Operations and maintenance takes on a major role in
dealing with park improvements, sport services, community events, and
warehousing. The director and administrative services section deal with the
organization of the department capital projects, land acquisitions, planning facility
and design management. We then went into what job function was. Norm then
went into systems procedures which will become part of the daily functions such
as developing a facility record system, and maintenance work load schedule,
organize an inspection and reporting procedure.
Next we talked about levels of service and how to define them. And then
funding.
Jim Keller then asked if it was possible to do an evaluation of different
communities who are budget conscious and see what kind of facilities they have.
Norm said that there were surveys around regarding different communities. Norm
said that they do look at other city budgets and national averages.
The funding program. We looked at other sources besides the general fund from
the cities budget such as concession contracts, user fees which is usually done
at the administrative level, special funds for parks & recreation, bond financing,
general obligation revenue bonds, and joint development. Sheri asked when we
should have enough land to start developing it. Norm told her that we should be 3
years into our acquisition program and 10 years or more into our development
program. This is an ongoing process and we are already behind so we need to
get moving.
Parks & Recreation Policies- Norm is recommending that, as this document
moves forward to Council, this language should be adopted as part of policy for
Parks and Recreation by the Commission so please read the document
thoroughly. No comprehensive Plan, in Norm's view, is a Comprehensive Plan,
unless the policies become the framework by which we function. This plan
should be how we measure our progress and effectively conduct our business.
Tom asked if specific policies were in this document. Norm said yes and we can
add the language or modify it over time but this is a point of beginning.
Sheri asked if naming policies were in the plan. Norm said that specific policy is
not in there but that this is an operating wheel or states the mechanics of how to
write our own policy. Whether we want to use a geographical area or donation
policy.
Glenn said that this book is what we need to hold the Councils feet to the fire
with. This is what the Council asked to see was a comp plan in place.
Norm went over a few things that needed to be added into the policy manual.
First, a questionnaire, which Norm wants to re-format, The changes on pricing
structure and development costs, maps and drawings, the appendix and
reference materials.
On the 2nd we will meet with the public, on the 7"', we will have a presentation to
the Council. Tammy asked if the public meeting was where the Commissioners
were to bring up any comments or concerns. Tom also asked since the
Commission just got this document, when it was appropriate for them to report
back to Norm. Norm said he would like the comments by the meeting on the 2"d
Jim was concerned with the amount of time the Commission had to go over the
material, and stated that he didn't want to waste his time going over it without
maps. Norm said the maps wouldn't be ready for the Commission until the 2nd
Jim said maybe we need to postpone the meeting with the Council so that the
Commission would have time to digest the completed document. Jim asked if
there was a need to rush to the Council, Tom said no. Sheri asked if legally we
need to make copies available to the public. Tom said they would be available at
the meeting on the 2nd. Norm said the information in the document is coming
through the public meetings. Trace stated that if people had a problem with what
was in the plan, they should have been at the public meetings that we held. The
Commission agreed, but thought it should be made available as a matter of
courtesy so they could have a chance to look it over and comment. Kristin said
that she thought comments should be in from the commission so that the
document would be less of a draft.
Tom said that he thought it was a good idea to get the plan out to the
Commission and the public on the 2"d, then allow the Commission and the public
two weeks to respond, then go to the Council at the end of December or the
beginning of January.
Trace said he thought the people who were at the meeting were more interested
in the things we went over at the meeting for the 56 acres and Chateau. If they
see this document, they will want to know where the specifics are and not what
the Comprehensive plan is. This is an official document which most of the public
wont understand. Jim said if we present it with a 2-page handout we could start
building a master plan concept and start selling a bond. Sheri asked if there
would be a Q&A part of the public meeting. Norm said yes.
New Business
David had none.
Directors Informational Items-
56 acres & Chateau- Tom addressed the bubble diagrams which were the result
of the public meeting held on the two future sites. He went over the 56-acre park
first. He talked about the parking lot going through the middle of the park. There
is a five field little league/softball complex, with 300 ft fences that can be moved
in for little league and removable mounds. There is a Babe Ruth size field, two
soccer fields, which will give us six mini fields. Leisure areas, a community
center, tennis courts, parking, an open covered area, an amphitheater, and a
skate court, playground areas and access into the park on Ustick.
Trace stated his dis-like for a community center, and said that if the public really
wants one, it should be in the downtown area, where the elderly can walk to it,
and kids can ride their bikes to it. There are no sidewalks going to this area, and
we may never recuperate from the building costs of a recreation center. Sheri
said maybe we should look into buying one of the churches for sale in the area.
Trace also said that he didn't see any basket ball areas, and there needs to be
both full court and dribble and shoot courts for the kids. He also stated that six
soccer fields are not enough, and he wants more green area. Trace said that he
had spoken to the Councilmen who bought this property five years ago, and they
said they bought it specifically for a sports complex. Sheri said that it didn't
matter what it was bought for five years ago, what mattered is what the
community wants today.
Norm stated that throughout the meetings, public need and want for a community
center was very strong. Kristin said that by trying to get a little bit of everything
into this park, we are shortchanging everyone because this is not that big of a
park. Tom reminded everyone that this was just a bubble diagram and he just
wanted to know if the Commission liked the concept.
Trace asked Norm what he thought about partnerships with groups like Little
League and PAL. Norm told Trace that in his experience, groups like that are the
worst people in the world to do business with. They don't serve a major
population, and they always want more.
Sheri said that a little bit of everything isn't going to meet our needs long term,
but anything in addition to what we have gives relief to the current situation. It
may not be ideal, or the number we need, but it helps. Tom reminded the
Commission that the Mayor supports and was re-elected partially based on his
wanting a recreation center. There is a feeling in the community that a
recreation center could benefit the youth in this community and if we want to
invest in the future of our kids, then we need to have facilities for them.
! •
The question was brought up, could we combine the farm area with the
recreation center and leave it near the water tower. Tom said that if the
recreation center was done right, there could be some good revenue in family
reunions and receptions out on a patio. That couldn't happen if the view from the
patio is a water tower and Ustick. Sheri made a motion that Norm take the
concepts brought up at this meeting to Bob Droll and work on revising the plan,
and have Bob come back with a new diagram based on what was discussed.
This was seconded by Jim Keller, all ayes, motion carried.
Chateau's bubble diagram has a double basket ball court, abaseball/green
space area with a movable back stop, a parking lot running along the canal, a
beginner skate park, and a playground area, a picnic shelter, restrooms and a
pathway. Tammy said that Tully is all sports fields, Storey is all sports fields, and
the 56 acres is all sports fields. She would like to see Chateau be more of a park
where you can go fly a kite, with a gazebo and maybe a water feature. The
people of that neighborhood are looking for a park where they can gather
together, where the kids can play and run around. Tom said that everyone got
notices about the design of Chateau Park in their water bill, and nobody came.
The Commission Meeting has been changed to the 13th instead of the 21St of
December due to the holiday. The Commission should have their comments on
the draft ready for the meeting, so it could go to Council as early as December
21.
Other Business
Tammy De Weerd will be leaving the Commission as of January. We will be
sending out a letter regarding an opening in the Commission.
Tom set up a meeting for Monday, November 22, to meet with the Boise Parks &
recreation Dept. Tom invited David Moe to attend as a representative of the
Commission, and invited any of the Commissioners to come along. Tom has
some concerns about partnering, he thinks it is a great avenue, as long as they
have actual money to put into it, and it doesn't give them exclusive rights to a
public facility.
David told Sheri that at some point in January she would be giving her
presentation on donation recognition items.
Sheri Baker motioned that we adjourn, seconded by Tammy De Weerd.
Meeting adjourns at 10:30