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2015-07-21 Budget�VEFZ IAN, - CITY OF MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING BUDGET WORKSHOP AGENDA Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 8:30 AM City Council Chambers 33 East Broadway Avenue, Meridian, Idaho 1. Roll -call Attendance: X David Zaremba X Joe Borton X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird X Genesis Milam X Luke Cavener X Mayor Tammy de Weerd 2. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted 3. City of Meridian FY2016 Budget Meeting Presentation Adjourned at 1:20 p.m. Meridian City Council Special Meeting Agenda — Tuesday July 21, 2015 Page 1 of 1 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing, please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Meridian City Council Budget Workshop July 21, 2015. A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 8:30 a.m., Tuesday, July 21, 2015, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, David Zaremba, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam and Luke Cavener. Item 1: Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. X David Zaremba X _ Joe Borton X__ Charlie Rountree X_ Keith Bird __X__ Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener __X Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and start our budget workshop. Thank you for being here. For the record it is Tuesday, July 21st. It's 8:35. We will start with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk. De Weerd: And I will, before I turn this over to Stacy -- we have been really pleased with how many people have been watching the budget hearing for last month. We had around 360 views and so this is being streamed and it seems that people are taking an interest in our budget process. So, that's -- that's the good news. So, I will turn this over to Stacy to kick us off. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda Bird: Are you going to adopt the agenda? De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry. Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda. Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we adopt the agenda as published. Bird: I'd second it. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 3: City of Meridian FY2016 Budget Meeting Presentation De Weerd: Item No. 3. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 2 of 76 Kilchenmann: Good morning and welcome to the second session of the FY-2016 budget. Everybody has been asking me what's the agenda. What's the schedule? It's like it's a day at the Improv. We are going to start out with me. That's the only thing that's set on the agenda and, then, we will probably just see how it goes, answer your questions, everybody is available to provide further information and we will go ahead and go through the summary and try to set -- what we call set the budget. So, at the end of the day we need to have a final budget number in order to meet the hearing notice requirements, but you can -- you can set the budget here and, then, at the public hearing you can go down, you just can't go up. So, I'm going to start out by giving you just an overview of the revenue and, then, some random facts that I thought might be interesting. So, first of all, this is looking at our total City of Meridian budget and this is a look back at 2012. The '16 budget draft has an additional -- and this is citywide -- FTE count of 11. Our increase in overall personnel cost is five percent, so that's the whole cost of personnel, not just the cost of those particular people. That compares from an eight percent increase in 2015, a seven percent increase in '14, a two percent in '13. We have about 87,000 in ongoing operating costs, 1.2 million in one-time operating costs, about 24 million in capital and 1.8 million in replacement equipment and vehicles and I look on this as kind of a holding your breath budget, because we can feel the world is about to explode around us, so I'm going to go through some factors that change the way we did our duty revenue projection a little bit and I think everybody tries to be pretty conservative in that what's going to happen next kind of mode. So, when I do the forecast I usually dive in and I try to start with building starts, because almost all of our revenue is driven by building starts, how many people live here, where do they live, how many square feet of commercial space do we have, et cetera. So, starting with single family building starts, it's surprising that it's been consistent since 2013 and that is expected to be to 2017. It's just been pretty steady, the same amount of building starts and this is true for the city and the state. So, this is a look at the Treasure Valley, Meridian, and the state. So, with the exception of 2014, which was a little different, housing starts went down, that's when the market finally heated up a little bit and people were able to sell the houses that had been in foreclosure under market and, then, the really key thing that impacted this forecast is the switch to multi-family building and if you read the revenue manual and I'm sure you hear it in the news -- De Weerd: I did. Word for word. Kilchenmann: You can -- it's just a national switch. It's a change in the way people live and it changes the way we forecast and it changes the way we serve our population. So, multi-family permit and connection fee revenue from multi-family permits are not as easy as residential and generally the revenue is -- actually turns out to be less and as I mentioned, this big C change, changes our service delivery. So, the way Fire and Police respond to the dense population in an apartment building, is not the same way they respond or the service they provide to subdivisions. The way they respond to a commercial growth is not the same as the way, again, that they respond to lots of open space in a subdivision and the thing we -- or I and pessimistic economists, always think about, whenever we have a boom -- and if you look at that section graph and you see where the multi-family units have gone, that's definitely a boom, what's next? Boom. Bust. So, I kind of keep that in mind in my negative side of my brain, which everybody City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 3 of 76 says is fairly large, but we want to try to be right in the middle. We don't want to be so conservative that we don't let you spend anything, but we want to be cognizant that it can go like this, like it did last time. Commercial. Commercial revenue is hard to project, because projects vary in size and value and the fee calculations are complicated. We are kind of -- where we would kind of spend some time using Accella and digging into this so we can forecast it -- do a better job of forecasting it and maybe even change a bit the way we charge -- or the way we charge those fees. So, for -- and, interestingly enough, a lot of people don't understand how small a portion commercial revenue is compared to residential revenue. For example, in connection revenue in '14 we collected 6.2 million dollars. Only 14 percent of that was from commercial. So, that's a fairly small percentage and, you know, this graph shows you the variations in commercial and again, as we know, commercial kind of follows residential. Property tax. That's another one. So, the tax we collected in '14, 31 percent of that was from commercial, the rest of it was from residential. So, this is kind of interesting, things to know about that balance between commercial and residential. And that's from our viewpoint. Of course, there is multipliers of jobs and sales tax and so forth in the economy, so this is just looking selfishly at the City of Meridian. So, we are going to talk about property tax, because we need to talk about property tax and how it will affect our residents. So, let's remember that the tax year is tax year '15 and we will collect it in '16. So, I switch back and forth between tax year and talking about our fiscal year. Because we collect it a year later. So, new construction can be added in using the prior year levy rate, but we will be adding in about 1.3 million in property tax revenues from new construction. We can also add in annexations, which is going to be about 76,000. That's from Meridian Heights. And, then, we get to increase our property tax by three percent over the prior year and that's 724,000. So, that adds up to our revenue being about up two million dollars from last year. So, you are working with two million dollars more in tax revenue. So, we say, well, how is that going to that impact our levy rate? Our taxable value increased 14 percent, so that's just every increase from your individual house valuation going up to new properties on the market -- that's everything. So, increased 14 percent. New construction actually decreased 18 percent over last year. So, the amount of new construction was 18 percent less. So, our levy rate went from .004 to .0038. Now, caveat. These exact numbers will change and we don't get the complete numbers until October and, then, they will actually shift a bit more in the spring. But that gives you the basic picture. I mean it's close. And, again, you can see taxable value up, levy rate down. So, we have six different places that we have been following for years and years and we have taken six actual revenues throughout the city and I put space out in different sectors and what's interesting this year, because when we looked at how the property was valued, it was all over the place. We had property that had a loss of three percent in their value and a property that went up 18 percent in value. So, it was interesting, we usually see them kind of move in the same direction. The average was a five percent gain. So, I think if you looked at everybody as a whole property value went up about five percent. Well, that's property tax, how it's going to affect our residents. Now we are going to look at ours again going back to the whole city. So, replacements for computers, we have got 197,000 and I broke it out by department. Vehicles and engines, a million. Equipment and furnishings about 600,000. Again, for the whole city. And some personnel stats to look at that kind of break down the merit pool. I have give you employee counts. I'm not going to read through all of them. Then you see on the right- City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 4 of 76 hand side explains each component of increase in salary for people who are established. The FTEs we already have. So, built into the base that you're not going to see separated, built into each person's wage is the -- police STEP plan is 97,000. Firefighter contract is two percent across the board is 90,000 and, then, the three percent merit pool breaks down as I have shown it below. So, it ends up being 200,000 for the General Fund and 233,000 for the Enterprise Fund. So, that's just kind of a way to look at it in a summarized way and how it affects each department. So, moving to the General Fund, this slide is summarizing their whole and what their additions are. So, first we look at what's -- what are the ongoing additions. So, we have personnel and operating on the top, about 870 in personnel and 80,000 something in operating. Their one-time operating. Renew capital, 5.7. And replacements of 1.7. Their FTE request add up to 8.5. New FTEs. We use funds -- for our capital we are using -- a portion aren't just from new revenue for the year, we are using park impact fees of 783,000 for part of that rec center or a home park and the design for the 77 acre park and, then, we are using fund balance to buy the rec center of two -- about two million. We are putting into the fund balance from community development we estimate about 725,000 and that's probably low, because I -- especially on the commercial side I don't -- I keep that projection pretty low. Last -- the last time was 1.4 million. I'm guessing the 725 could be more around maybe one, 1.2 million, that we will put into the fund balance. So, after we make the 14 transfer we will end this year with 3.9 in the Capital Improvement Fund. So, this is looking at the unrestricted General Fund balance and our operating reserve and I -- it's a simplistic look taken from the audit report and I -- as we talked about, I lowered the operating reserve by two million, so instead of taking the four months, I just made it a flat two million. So, it's kind of been maintaining and we stay pretty consistent. It shows it going up, because I reduced the reserve. This is what our final budget -- or the draft budget that you're looking at looks like compared to the General Fund -- or to last year's -- the '15 final budget and it's always a little confusing, because we look at the '15 budget, we have got all the carry forward amounts in there and that and could be from three years ago, two years ago, one year ago. So, it makes the '15 budget look a lot higher than the '16 budget, because I'm not -- I don't have a carry -- we don't have carry forward in there. But it lets you compare personnel, it lets you compare operating, let's you look at what new capital is. Well, I imagine when we put the carry forward in it will probably be somewhat less than the '15 final budget. Okay. Now I'm going to switch to the Enterprise Fund or what we call the proprietary fund and look at their fund balance. They are not like a governmental fund. They have their own set of accounting standards and their fund balance on their audit report is calculated, but differently than it is on the General Fund. So, they have two fund designations. One is net investment in capital assets, because capital assets minus accumulated depreciation. That's because it's a tool that the government -- or that the businesses uses to create revenue and, then, they have unrestricted net assets, which we always call the fund balance when we think of fund balance. That's cash and investments available to pay the cost of operations and it's sort of really a plug number, so it's difference between liabilities and net assets. So, to really predict what it's going to be you have to predict what the cash out-flows and in-flows are going to be, you can't just look at the budget. So, you have to estimate how much will actually be spent, the timing of the spending, how you will collect revenue and the timing of the revenue. So, the only other fund designation that you are allowed to use or are restricted are net assets, which is rare and that would be City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 5 of 76 like -- it has to be something imposed by an outside credit body, like if you have a bond and you had to keep a reserve balance. So, this is what the Enterprise Fund revenue looks like and it's just a comparison of the last three years and on the lower right-hand side shows things that had an impact on the budget -- on their revenue between '15 and '16. So, a new fee, some changes in their rate calculation and changes in their assessment fee. Now, their assessment fee is interesting how long it takes for the assessment fee to actually be charged, because there is all these building permits that are already in the hopper that have to be charged at the old rate, so when we went through and calculated their revenue we didn't see -- so, they made a change in October and we didn't actually see it start to affect permits coming in until the end of December, January. So, if you look at the components of their fee for a three year look, utility sales are pretty consistent, 70 to 75 percent. Connection fees, their pieces of the pie is staying pretty consistent. Then this is looking -- drilling down into water and sewer fees, the 70 to 75 percent of their fees. An interesting note is that when we looked at water, between 2013 and '14, the gallons literally were the same. They literally flowed the same amount of gallons, despite that increase in customer accounts. So, water -- water is a tricky one, because it's so dependent on weather. Obviously, people are conserving -- using pressurized irrigation. So, just as a side note, water is not really paying for itself. If you just look at water operations and water revenue, you can see the revenue -- the accounts are going up, the cost isn't going down, but we are not -- we are selling the same amount and, then, water and sewer sales shows a breakdown. Sewer being the greatest percentage because it's a more costly operation and, then, connection fee revenue. So, we spend a lot of time on our connection fee revenue and we are going to make some changes in how we report this through Accella and, again, they are very affected by the switch to multi-family. So, when we tried to break it apart and we had to go back in and literally sometimes bill permit by permit, multi-family -- when we looked at '14 actual averages about 1,200 per unit, whereas residential is 3,000 per home, the average, and commercial, again, we tried to -- well, what's a metric and how much are we earning on commercial, because it's decided or estimated based on the ARU account and, again, these are averages, but it turned out to be 102 -- 102 dollars per square foot or another way we looked at it -- what is the value of the project that assessment fee would turn out to be about one percent. So, that's something that we will continue to look into and evaluate. So, here is what their budget looks like at a glance and I broke it apart between -- the bulk of it is capital, so I just showed water and wastewater and Public Works didn't have much, so they don't -- they are not shown on here. Just something to look at. How much -- if we do broad categories and don't look at each individual line item where the funds are, then it totals 19.2 percent. You see for water the bulk of it is waterlines and mains and wells and for the treatment plant is the treatment plant. So, here is what their final budget looks like and, again, we have got that carry forward. So, again, I think there they will be pretty comparable if we take the carry forward out, the two years. So, this is what we have. This is what's here. There is a lot that's out there that's not in this budget, so the next fire station -- that's just inevitable, we really need to seriously talk about the next fire station. So, there is now in operating about 1.3 million. If we do a rec center we don't have the personnel and operating, probably about four to five hundred dollars in ongoing operating. Parts house. We collect about 500,000 dollars right now in fee revenue that goes into the General Fund. Of course, we have got the EPA permit lurking City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 6 of 76 out there that, you know, we have talked about a lot. Support staff. I mean we spend a lot of time in our directors meetings talking about how do we prioritize, what tools can we use. We need to know the cost of service and we need to decide on the cost service. We need to measure results. That takes people. That takes time. It's hard to build that into somebody's already full-time job and it's going to take some type of tool to record it, because you know how thrilled you are with 4,000 Accella spreadsheets. So, we need a tool sometime in the future that we can just corral all this data and, then, easily report it back. Health insurance. That's a problem for everybody. Everybody. Not us. Not just employers. It's a problem for everyone. The cost. The firefighters are concerned about -- well, if we retire early we want some kind of insurance that's post-employment. Well, that's outrageously expensive. So, there is those kinds of issues to look at. I'm sure you -- these are just a few that just came to my mind. I'm sure everybody else could come up with other issues, too, but I think by in large this is a fairly -- like I said holding your breath budget, like let's be conservative, let's really figure out where we are going to go and not everything explode. Are there any questions? De Weerd: Council, any questions? Or is your head spinning? Kilchenmann: So, we decided what we will do is Todd will flip this off and we will start with the Enterprise Fund. They usually get to be either last or they get to be the second day, so what we are going to do, like we do normally, we did a presentation and we put up the summary. So, here is where we are doing the day at the Improv, because they have already given their presentation, but everybody is ready to readdress any of their enhancements or answer any questions. So, we will put them up there and I will let Tom come up -- I don't know if he has something he wants to present in addition or -- Borton: Madam Mayor? Kilchenmann: I'm going to go sit down. Borton: Can I ask Stacy a question? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton. Borton: Before you sit down. Kilchenmann: Maybe not. Borton: In the updated revenue figures there is a pretty big change in the projected ending fund balance in the Enterprise Fund. The original figure was -- Kilchenmann: Yeah. That was -- that was done using the accrual basis of accounting, but the one on the summary is the cash basis. That's what the change is. The one I did on the revenue manual is replicating out of the financial statement. You're probably more concerned with the summary, because it doesn’t have depreciation in it. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 7 of 76 Borton: Is that the same with the General Fund? Kilchenmann: No. The General Fund should be there. It's cash. Yeah. Borton: Thanks. Kilchenmann: It's just the -- in the General Fund we are -- we report on the reserves, so the audit mirrors the cash basis, whereas the -- Borton: All right. De Weerd: Okay. Did I understand, Tom, you had a -- no? Barry: Madam Mayor, actually, I do want to just clarify a couple of the small changes from the budget workshop on June 5th to today for a full disclosure, the Public Works Department did include an enhancement between June 5th and today for the safety program coordinator position. We have been talking to you for several months about that and we did include that, so we stand ready for your questions in and around that particular enhancement and I want to make sure -- other than very small ancillary changes, that is the only one that I am aware of that would be of consequence that perhaps you may want to have a conversation about this morning. A couple reclassification changes. We are talking about one or two thousand dollars here or there that was modified, but I think by and large that is the only principal change that is in our budget that's different than we presented in June 5th, so -- De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for Tom at this point? Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Madam Mayor, it's not actually a question for Tom, I guess it's a question for Finance and Legal and Council. Public Works is in the process of transitioning the name of the wastewater treatment facility to water resource recovery facility. Is that something that we need to make official, so that in the future the paperwork that comes out about that division reflects the new name? Kilchenmann: Mr. Zaremba, I will tell you one thing, it's in the accounting system as WWTP and it will remain there forever, because it's -- it's memorialized in the accounting system. You can't -- Zaremba: So, it's not like a name change like that and make the budget comply with what the department is doing? Kilchenmann: We can't change it in the accounting system. We can change it on the Excel spreadsheet. Zaremba: Okay. Kilchenmann: And we can change it going forward, but all the history is going to be -- City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 8 of 76 Zaremba: All right. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other important questions? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Tom, we had spoken between the sessions -- one of the items that will be helpful to clarify is how the -- your current budget request addresses some of the permit's implementation issues that we last visited in detail in October. We had talked and I brought up the old financing strategy on the permit, the pie chart that kind of addresses what gaps need to be filled and -- give us an update on what's being addressed and what remains to be. Barry: So, what you're referring to, Councilman Borton, is the rate presentation that we gave initially in October. We subsequently gave a second rate presentation in May where we filled the Council in on those detailed as well and in May I presented that we had made some modifications to the forecast, both from a revenue expense standpoint based on the rate models and the projections that, essentially -- and with the changes that we made to that, including level loading and capital projects and also moving out about 23 million dollars worth of capital projects that are important, but not critical to meeting either the permit or immediate capacity concerns, that we were able to project that the Enterprise Fund going forward would be able to remain solvent for the next ten years and that although we are close in the undesignated ending fund balance, we were able to reserve ten million dollars as a set aside in the form of a million dollar emergency reserve and a six month operating reserve. Those are the changes the Council agreed on in May. So, setting aside those ten million dollars in reserve, we still are able to keep a solvent, undesignated ending fund balance over the ten year period, including all the enhancements that we have included in this budget and the enhancements that are identified -- or not enhancements, but the capital projects identified over the next ten years in the Public Works Department capital plan. I will say that in the event our estimates come in lower than actual or there are some other unforeseen circumstances associated with our trying -- needing to find more revenue, that some modest rate increases along the way -- this ten year period we are talking about going forward, looks to -- appear to easily overcome the challenges that we might have going forward. Now, the Council has asked the Public Works Department to come back every six months and present on that information and we are due up to speak with you in October about that, but at least at this point in time I can say with assurance that the enhancements that have been included in this year's budget and the capital projects identified over the next year period, which get us to full compliance on the EPA permit requirement over the ten year period and get us, at least at this projection, to increasing the capacity of the wastewater treatment plant from 10.2 MGD, million gallons per day, to about 15 million gallons per day over the same ten year period, are all included and accounted for and financed over the ten year projection that we have been modeling. Hopefully that helps. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 9 of 76 Borton: It does. Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Anything from any other Council Member? Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Milam. Milam: Tom -- and maybe I should have contacted you before -- Barry: That's okay. Milam: I just have -- I was going through this, reviewing again last night and I -- maybe it's just normal and I'm fairly new at this, but it's hard for me looking at an enhancement where -- I mean we are asking for two million dollars this year for a multi-year project and next year we are going to need eight million dollars -- basically that means we are approving eight million dollars for the following year, because we will be halfway through a project that we can't really just stop. Barry: Yes. And this seems to be coming more of an issue for the City Council. It has not been an issue over the last six years, seven years that we have been operating this way. So, maybe some history is in order. When I joined the department in 2008 the way the department was budgeting capital projects is the way that it seems this Council at least is struggling to understand how full budgeting of a project might -- might be beneficial to the city. We use what's called -- so, let me explain how it was done, which is, essentially, if you had a ten million dollar project -- say a digester, for example, the city, Public Works Department, would budget the full ten million dollars in the start of the year. It might be a three year project. And, then, we would carry forward what it didn't spend every year thereafter. So, what that does, essentially, is it says, okay, we are setting aside ten million dollars of the money in the Enterprise Fund and dedicating it for this particular project -- ties up that money, encumbers it for a three year period and so, therefore, we can't use any portion of that money for any other project. So, if I can do a 20 million dollar capital project and I have three projects let's say, one project is ten million dollars, one project is five million dollars, and one project is another five million dollars to equate to the 20 million dollars -- I can only work on three projects over three years, because I set all that money aside, while we are sitting around, we are not able to work on other projects. I believe we have 40 to 50 projects a year that we work on today using our new method -- it's not really new, it's the method we have been using for over half a decade now called just-in-time financing. The just-in-time financing model says, listen, instead of taking and reserving a large chunk of money and setting it aside and just carrying forward the unexpended amounts each year, and preventing yourself, therefore, from working on other projects that that money, if it was freed up in that fiscal year, could be used for, we finance the project just in time. So, essentially, if we have a ten million dollar project -- going to use the same three projects -- we have a ten million dollar project, but I'm only going to spend two million in the first year, I'm only going to budget City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 10 of 76 the two million for this particular year and I'm going to free up eight million that I can use on other projects in the same fiscal year, instead of carrying that eight million dollars on the books just to feel good that we will have it sometime in the future. So, what we do is we have to model all of this and make sure that we don't get in the situation where we are overspending the revenues that we are collecting or the allocations we have set aside for the budget for the particular projects that we are working on and we have been doing that, like I said, for over half a decade now, very successfully. It has allowed us to improve the number of projects or increase the number of projects we have been able to accommodate on a fiscal year basis and also deliver these large scale projects in the same time frame, without delay for the same general cost. Now, one of the caveats that we have also included -- and Keith Watts mentioned this when he came up last week to speak to the City Council, we have in the contracts that we write for these projects stop periods. So, if the City Council does not approve the fiscal year funds for the next phase of the project, that contract stops and you might say, well, hey, but that does make sense that we might be a quarter of the way into a project and now we are going to stop the project. I would say, yeah, that doesn't make sense, but I would ask why would you start a project that you thought you were going to stop? I mean these projects that we are doing are projects that are increasing capacity, there are increasing our regulatory compliance capabilities, those types of things. We don't bring projects forward that are -- we have any intention of stopping. So, the stopgap that we have does allow us to stop the project if we don't have the finances available for. Let's say we have a bad year for revenue or the cost estimate goes way up too much and the City Council decides the project's not worth it. There is those types of things that could happen; right? So, in those cases the City Council could say, look, I don't want to fund this for any reason. They could say I don't want to fund the second phase of this particular project and the contract stops and whatever work has been done ceases. The contractor is made aware of that in the bid documents when they bid on the project, it's written in the project and they sign and agree that that is the way the city will finance these projects going forward over multiple years. So, there are a lot of benefits to continue the practice that we have been using. It's been very successful. It's allowed us to do a lot more with a lot less and also remain fiscally conservative and protect the city in the event that, for whatever reason -- and to this date there has not been one that has caused us to stop a project under this financing method. So, I don't know if that helps explain historically -- Milam: Yes. And I -- and I like that method. If it was broken up more evenly it would be easier to digest. So, I guess my only concern -- and, you know, you're probably on top of it, is that making sure that the following year we don't have -- isn't a huge year, yet we have a whole lot of projects that are started or this is the second year, but the -- the following there is three or four times the amount, at budget time that could really become a problem, unless you're not planning on starting anymore projects the following year. Barry: Right. Milam: See what I'm saying? So, I'm just worried -- I just want to make sure that somebody is totally up the following year and that it's not going to be way out of control. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 11 of 76 Barry: Yes. And they are very good points and very good questions and, yes, we are on top of that. We do monitor that. We watch that. We present that to you in October, November time with our five year capital plan. That's also modeled in the ten year rate model. So, all of that's accounted for. You know, we can't -- it would probably not be prudent to try to just take a ten million dollar project and chunk it up in three million -- 3.3 million each year. The reality is the dollar amounts that are requested are based on the work that's going to be done in that fiscal year. So, in one fiscal year as we start a project we might be doing design. Well, design typically is only anywhere between ten and 15 percent, maybe 20 percent of a project. So, on a ten million dollar project we might be only asking for 1.5 to two million dollars, but once we start construction now we are in big money, so we might be asking for five or six to seven million dollars during the construction year and, then, of course, as we finish construction, perhaps in the third year, or there is other ancillary or project costs, like maybe the construction of a building over the infrastructure that we have just constructed or whatnot, the cost tends to come down again. So, you get this sort of balloon cycle, if you will, during the project, which is just inherent of typically the type of projects we do. Property acquisition. Deed and acquisition, permits, design -- those are -- those tend to be, you know, pretty small costs that are -- that can take a long time and, therefore, we don't ask for the amount above what we think we can do in that particular fiscal year. Which is why you see in certain phases -- oh, you know where construction is, because that's typically the largest dollar amount being requested at that time, so -- we don't want to delay projects by saying, okay, yeah, this project has five million dollars in construction, we just feel -- it would feel better that we only did half the construction this year and that we waited and finished the rest of the construction next year, because it just looks better on paper. There is a lot more cost involved with mobilization, demobilization, site security, site stabilization, those type of things, which don't make that a prudent model. So, hopefully, that -- Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Stacy. Kilchenmann: I would like to -- a little clarification on that funding clause. Further research indicates that's probably -- Bill might be able to add -- or Ted, but it's not probably -- if we want to hold once you have signed the contract -- because if you signed a contract and somebody's going to do X amount of work and you cross fiscal years, saying, no, we are done, we don't -- the Council didn't approve it, probably wouldn't hold up in a challenge, so I wouldn't really rely on that as a guaranteed method. And a lot of contractors are not going to be willing to sign a contract if they really thought that was true. So, I think that's a conclusion for further research. Keith? Watts: With our purchasing group, the Idaho Purchasing Association, a lot of our training they have indicated that that has not held up in court, just that clause alone. We also have a termination clause in our agreements, which pretty much gives Council carte blanche to cancel a contract at anytime for any reason and that is in our construction contract as well. The funding clause is trying to bring that to a more relevant or just clarify up front this is how we are financing the project, but we do have indications that that alone City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 12 of 76 would not necessarily hold up in court. I don't have any specific court cases, I just know that our instructors in our -- that we bring in have often said that it's subject to interpretation at the court and it has not always been held up. Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think probably what they are talking about at those associations -- there has been some case law in the few years -- started back about ten years ago with the Boise case at the airport. So, most of the clauses around the state or contracts around the state for long-term projects have what we term in our business nonappropriation clauses. So, there are conditions that are in all contracts that say they are always subject to Council's approval, even on multi-year agreements. The ones that -- what Keith has talked about that courts have been a little more hesitant about are long-term projects or leases that don't have any logical break to them. So, the way contracts and the way the bids are designed is -- as Tom stated, where we have some finite work that gets completed. The idea, hopefully, is to have it pretty seamless, so that you don't have a gap between stopping phase one and starting phase two. But the ones that have been tried in courts are things like -- like a long-term lease for a large scale piece of equipment. The reality is if you have a third of the equipment in one year, you're not likely to not pay for it the next year, because you already have the equipment. So, those are the ones that courts have been a little more hesitant on -- on granting approval of those nonappropriation clauses, because the allegation was that this isn't really necessarily a valid lease or a valid nonappropriation, because the likelihood of your not doing it isn't -- isn't very high. In these ones, again, we designed in both in the bid process in the contract to break these off and the other thing that Tom didn't mention -- or Keith, but part of it helps us in bidding process as well, because, again, if we wanted until we completed phase one and, then, rebid phase two, you have two risks, you're going to get a different contractor, which may be problematic, or, secondarily, you're going to pay a higher price, because, as we all know, the longer you wait for many things the more it costs. So, there are some -- there are some financial reasons that make sense, but the way we have done our contracts now are ones that have been supported in other courts. Does that mean the Supreme Court couldn’t change their mind? I'm not allowed to comment on how the Supreme Court might do. So, I don't know that it will certainly always be the case, but at least to this date the type that we do have been upheld and haven't been challenged to the same degree as others. So, I still think we are on good legal grounds the way we have been doing it and until there is a significant court case that changes that I don't -- you know, we could always make it better. I think Council Member Borton brought up some language last week he wasn't as comfortable with. I brought that back to our office, to our staff, and we are going to talk with Keith and make sure, again, that we are very clear in these contracts as to what they are bidding on, what they are agreeing to, and what risk they have on their end to make sure it's clear and, again, I think that's the best we could do at this juncture and I think it has been at least upheld in other courts around the state, so -- City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 13 of 76 De Weerd: Did that answer the question? Milam: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. Barry: Good questions, though. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Tom, if the safety position you're requesting -- just requested and have been talking about, where would it reside in your organization structure? Barry: Structurally that would reside likely in the operational side. So, Dale Bolthouse. So, water and wastewater would likely have that, because a majority of the safety issues certainly are on the operations side. There would be some transcending of training and those types of things across the department, the all likelihood is that that particular position would be under the water or wastewater side of the operation. Particularly in this case reporting to the deputy director of utility operations, but we are looking at -- and I have talked with the Mayor briefly. We don't have anything concrete now -- about modifying some of the reporting structures in the Public Works Department to streamline some of the one off positions you might see on our organizational chart. We have like an electrician, we have an inventory specialists, we have a couple of one off positions that we would like to centralize and have a uniform say in operations manager or supervisor over see. So, we are looking at that at this point in time, but in all likelihood that particular position would be held over in the operational side, since it has the most impact and influence on that portion of the organization. Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. To answer it quicker, Dale Bolthouse. Barry: Yes. Rountree: Got that. De Weerd: Anything further for Tom? Thank you, Tom. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Tom, your comments start about operating reserves and capital projects over ten years being covered, including the expansion and the necessary emergency -- excuse me City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 14 of 76 -- the ten million emergency reserves and I believe the operating reserves of about six million dollars. The change that -- that we know the gist of the start and the numbers we have seen from a cash basis, any fund balance versus an accrual basis, and the removal of depreciation are the -- the conclusions that you're sharing with us based on the cash basis available fund -- Barry: Uh-huh. Borton: -- if so, appreciate -- get me comfortable with removing the need to account for depreciation in that future expense from what's truly available for future cash reserves. Barry: You bet. So, our modeling -- the rate models is made up based on cash position. It's always been based on that, which is different than the accrual basis. I have mentioned for years that we will have a depreciation problem in this city. Fortunately, the way we have grown, it's such that the majority of our infrastructure at this current point in time is fairly immature, meaning that it is not reached even half of its asset life cycle or life span. So, that's good news. The bad news is that as we ballooned in our population and our addition of assets as a community, so will that appreciation problem at some point into the future. And I don't want to suggest that we are not currently working on depreciation projects. The water and sewer main replacement that you see every year are part of our investment in upgrading old infrastructure. A lot of this infrastructure gets upgraded through that -- those particular programs. It also gets upgraded through improvements in coordination with ACHD projects. Road widenings and those types of things will go in and will replace our upside lines, depending upon their age or size or condition. So, we do currently invest in upgrading our depreciating assets. There is not a ton of investment, because there is not a ton of this infrastructure requiring this type of heavy investment. But as we project going forward, if you assume say a 50 to a 75 year asset life cycle for heights and infrastructure of that nature, you know, the majority of our population really started taking off in 1990 and throughout the '90s. So, we have got -- what are we into it now? It's 2015. So, you're 25 years into it. You're about halfway through the life cycle of those assets added in 1990. All the assets added between 2000 and now are only 15 years -- if you go to 2000. So, the reality here is that, yes, depreciation will be the third crisis for the Public Works Department. Fortunately for us time is on our side and we have about 20 to 25 years before that crisis really becomes a problem. It would be prudent for the department to begin saving as soon as it could for that -- for that crisis, but, as you know, the current crisis that we are dealing with now are capacity of the treatment plant and regulatory compliance. So, we feel that over the next ten years, focusing on those two issues for the department, are the most prudent and, then, after we overcome those two issues we will be putting our time and attention onto the assets and the depreciating assets and schedules associated with that, which is why during this time period we are building a very robust asset management program, because it will give us the type of information to -- to very responsibly and conservatively go after, identify, and repair and replace those projects needing -- needing repair and replacement. So, I don't know if that helps or not. Borton: It -- Madam Mayor? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 15 of 76 De Weerd: Uh-huh. Borton: It does help. It might be more a question for us just to be mindful of -- you know, at some point down the road there is that -- you flip a switch from cash to accrual, it makes that drastic change and, quite frankly, to account for depreciation expense, which is there, just deferred down the road. It greatly reduces or eliminates available fund balance. Barry: Well, keep in mind that the expenses that we are putting our money to right now are focused on capacity and they are focused on regulation. When we achieve the capacity goal over this ten year period of 15 million gallons per day and we achieve the regulatory compliance goal over the next ten year period, the money that we have been generating for those costs will be, essentially, freed up, because we won't have those costs, at least to the degree that we have them today and that money can be diverted, then, to the depreciation challenge. So, keep in mind that the cost component of our operation over the next ten years will shift and as we achieve the goal for capacity and regulatory compliance, we will be able to shift those costs over toward depreciation and the revenue should still be there for us to be addressing the issue. Now, all of that gets modeled as we move forward and you're looking 20 years into the future. So, we haven't gotten that far in our modeling at this point. Borton: Okay. Thank you. Barry: Good questions, though. De Weerd: Thank you, Tom. Barry: You bet. De Weerd: Okay. Council, you have got a packet of information from Finance that summarize some of the budget changes since June 17th. Budget changes after you received your binders. We can go through some of those. I will say that as we entered into these budget workshops there were a couple of discussions that we had hoped to have regarding either services or serviceability to respond to service-related needs. So, part of that conversation was on benefits and reclassification and I think that Patty will -- will be talking about the benefits line item. I don't know if you had planned to, but I think it would be helpful -- in just a second. I know that our city clerk had a question regarding -- on the position that's being requested on passports, if we continue to provide that service and the staffing needs in that department. We had questions regarding the second fire truck that we hope to have a conversation on. One of the things that we had anticipated having a conversation on was personnel versus overtime in our fire department, but because of some of the testing opportunities available, that conversation has been delayed, but will be had at a later time, just not during the budget workshop timing. I think they will be bringing that back. Additional things that we said that we would be bringing back that were probably not -- not something that was needed during the budget City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 16 of 76 workshop was the policy for the economic development incentive, computer replacement that will come up this coming fall. We will have a streetlight program report and I think that is it. I have been keeping ongoing notes regarding things that will make -- make your decision making easier next year that I have been trying to capture as we go. So, I guess I will ask Stacy how best she wants to talk about some of the changes and have Patty talk about the benefits. Kilchenmann: I will have Todd -- Todd accumulated the changes in his sheet, so he can go through each of those and, then, we can have Miss Patty come up and talk about benefits again. De Weerd: Yeah. I would like each of the departments, if they had a change since the budget workshop -- the first budget workshop to -- to discuss those. I guess if we go off the list that Todd gave us we would start with Patty anyway. Perkins: Good morning, Council and Madam Mayor. There were a couple of different changes -- and I can talk about -- may just cover changes in the HR budget specifically first. I did add an additional 3,500 dollar enhancement to do a compliance line, sort of an ethics hotline. This had been under discussion last year. We decided to table it for a period of time and thought it was pretty -- to bring it back at this time, so that is in there. It is a partnership with our current employee assistance program and think it will be something that would be very -- very beneficial to the city. The other enhancement change that I made was we did increase our employee reimbursement total. Increased it by 6,000 dollars annually and what that is -- it's a tuition reimbursement program. We were a bit on the low side. The IRS allows us to reimburse at a much higher rate. We are still quite below the maximum per person per year that the IRS will allow, but it does enhance that budget a bit to hopefully encourage folks to go for higher education and certifications and things that will benefit the city. The Mayor asked me to talk a little bit about benefits and I think we -- I -- I don't want to be totally doom and gloom about benefits, but it is certainly a topic of conversation for every employer and I think at the last budget workshop we did not have our final renew numbers from Blue Cross, which is without question the largest piece of our benefit budget and we had kind of a placeholder in there at ten percent, which I thought was a very reasonable amount of money. Blue Cross actually came in at 10.7 percent after many weeks of going back and forth and back and forth they relented a whole half a percent. So, we, then, went back to the drawing board and we -- we were trying to go this next year without any plan design changes. However, we think that that is not going to be reasonable because of that level of increase and so we have made a proposal to do two things. We have made some changes in the prescription drug program whereby we keep the generic at the same co-pay. We increase the next two tiers and we add a fourth tier for the very high special -- high cost specialty drugs. There are 14 planned participants on that that will be impacted by this change and it's a larger co-pay for those specialty drugs. They are available, they are still at a major significant discount to what the actual cost is, but that change in that plan will allow -- give us another percent at 1.3 to 1.5 percent, so that helps us significantly. In addition, we are recommending that we contribute 75 percent of the cost of benefits to dependant on -- as opposed to the current 80 percent and that helps us stay within the budget amount that City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 17 of 76 we had. So, those are the changes I believe that you have in the materials that you have before you. It's never easy to make changes to employee benefits. We were hoping that we didn't have to do that and, quite frankly, we are lucky, because the average Blue Cross increase in Idaho has been 25 percent and that had been widely reported a few weeks ago. So, I'm sure they came down a little from each of those. But they are just not -- they are not negotiating like they have in the past. So, I think for next year we will look at some -- a number of different things to do that will I think be hopefully beneficial to the employees and a little bit easier costwise to the city. So, those are the changes I believe that you have. Oh, reclassifications. When I submitted the reclassification number last time I had baked in there -- and it was indicated in the enhancement, but there was an estimated three percent merit increase for each of those positions to kind of show the total impact. What actually happened, though, is that was double dip, because Todd already accounted for that merit portion, so I removed the merit portion from the reclassification, so in most cases that went down and you still have some money built in there for any potential salary increases that I would anticipate based on the grade movements. So, that's why that number has changed and in most cases should be overall a little lower. So, any further questions? De Weerd: Any questions for Patty? Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Patty, I don't see the changes in the -- the drugs anyplace in -- Perkins: It doesn't show up -- it shows up in the percentage and so it should be -- Bird: I don't see it in any of our budget items, unless -- Perkins: Okay. Well, then, I'm not -- Bird: We need to get it in there, so that it is -- Perkins: Yeah. Because it would give us -- instead of a ten percent increase or the original was 10.7, it would give an 8.2 increase. Bird: Okay. Perkins: So, it's still not a lot of reduction, but it is a little and it does keep us within the five million dollar range. Lavoie: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Todd. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 18 of 76 Lavoie: Councilman Bird, the financial figures for the fiscal 2016 -- the budget numbers for the employee benefits for the Blue Cross, they have not been adjusted since the last time we have met. Bird: Okay. Lavoie: We still believe that the number that we presented to you, the five millionish number, still should hold, you know, pretty -- pretty close to where we want it to be. So, we did not readjust the employee Blue Cross benefit number in the data that you have at your fingertips right now. Bird: Okay. It will be less than what we have got in the budget now? It's got to be before -- before we go to public hearing. Perkins: But I'm hearing -- Bird: Patty, that's what I'm hearing. Perkins: Correct me if I'm wrong, Todd, is that the number that was plugged in there was kind of the final budget number and, actually, what Blue Cross came in at was higher and would have put it up higher and so the reductions that we have made keep it current with the number you have. Bird: That's what I'm -- Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Council, we didn't increase it ten percent to start with, so we are just saying this is the number -- the plan will fit within the numbers, so it -- it shouldn't -- it's not going to change from what you initially saw, but from '15 to '16 it was -- how much as it changed, Todd? Rita says six percent. De Weerd: But it still falls within the budget line item that was calculated into the overall budget. Bird: Well, you're getting more revenue in, too, because we are getting an extra five percent out of it. De Weerd: Dean will want you to -- Bird: Madam Mayor, we are getting an extra five percent in savings and revenue, because of the -- from 75 to 80 percent to the spouses. Perkins: That keeps us -- making that -- that change keeps us within that budget. Bird: That's what I mean. Perkins: Yes. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 19 of 76 Bird: I just want to make sure that when we come to the public hearing that -- that we can't add -- we can take out, but we can't add. Perkins: Correct. Bird: And so I want to make sure we are covered here today with what we got. Perkins: If we don't make that change then we are over budget. De Weerd: Any other questions for Patty? Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Just one real briefly. On the tuition reimbursement, this was new, this isn't something I had expected to see and just a couple of clarifications for myself. Patty: Uh-huh. Cavener: When an -- one of our employees takes advantage of that, do they have an obligation to stay on with the city for a predetermined amount of time or is there -- obviously, the city invests dollars in -- for the training and education and I'm curious if the city gets a guaranteed return on investment on those. Perkins: We have opted not to put any restrictions on that. Some employers do. They say, you know, if you leave within a year of receiving this money you have to pay it back or pay back a portion and the -- we discussed this at our directors team and we felt like that was not something that we wanted to ask employees for at this time. Quite frankly, we want to encourage some people to take advantage of it. We have certainly not felt like we had employees that had taken advantage and, then, taken that -- and, then, left right away, so at this point we think that that may be a solution to a problem we don't have at this time, but it -- you know, that's certainly open for future discussion. Cavener: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: And I will put that on for a future agenda topic is what our education reimbursement policy is and maybe we can talk about who has taken an opportunity to utilize that and that sort of thing. Perkins: Okay. De Weerd: So, we will come back with that. Okay. Any -- Zaremba: Madam Mayor? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 20 of 76 De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I have a question and I don't know if this is the right place to put it, but I remember having a discussion about a new FTE that would be an internal auditor. I now see this is as an enhancement under Council. Bird: Yes. Zaremba: Does that mean that when that person is hired they would report directly to the Council or what's the reporting structure going to be? Perkins: I'm going to defer to somebody else, because I do not have the answers. Zaremba: Okay. De Weerd: Probably wasn't involved in this enhancement -- Zaremba: Okay. De Weerd: -- nor was I, so I -- I would ask our Council president. Rountree: Madam Mayor, you all have that information in the package you received and it would report to the Council. Zaremba: That was my question. Thank you. De Weerd: So, that's a great segue into this enhancement request. Zaremba: Okay. De Weerd: So, Councilman Rountree, do you want to -- to talk about that? Rountree: Well, I'm going to let Stacy start. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, I'm not sure exactly where to start. What I did was I just took Boise's internal audit description and plugged it in here. So, there are a wide variety of functions this person could do, which probably isn't my choice of what they would do, because if it was my choice they would do accounting work, but -- so, it's really up to you -- well, it's up to the elected officials what they want it to do. In Boise they work -- they do some actual accounting functions, like they review purchasing card payments, which are credit cards, and they will do policy review for projects suggested by the directors, the Mayor and the Council. I know -- I believe Robert called and talk to them a little bit about that, so he might have more information than I do. They do things like look at the travel policy, et cetera. I can see a million things we could have somebody do from where ever they are located from internal control functions, to the strategic plan, to coordinating City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 21 of 76 performance measurement reporting, to coordinating our policies, et cetera, et cetera, but it's really not my position, so -- De Weerd: If it was yours it would be a budget analyst. Kilchenmann: Correct. De Weerd: So, maybe we would -- I don't know. I'm not really sure how to deal with this -- go through the general process, so maybe we can talk about what problem we are trying to solve. Rountree: Madam Mayor. This position has been talked about a couple times in sessions with the Council. The feeling is that there needs to be some support that deals directly with the Council with respect to budgetary items. With respect to ongoing issues within the city it might be issues to and including whistle blowing situations. We have a current person looking at procedure and whatnot within one of our particular departments. This position could do that sort of thing as it relates to budget issues or accounting issues that may or may not be standard procedures. In anticipation of -- and I'm not saying we are Boise, but we have grown up. We are no longer a little city. There isn't a person on this Council that has the time to delve into the budgets and the operations of their specific liaison departments to uncover issues or identify issues. This person would be the go between to be in the department, to be looking at budgets, to be looking at expenditures to make sure that there aren't things going on that shouldn't be that we are not aware of, so we don't get into a situation where we have ourselves and backsides not protected and/or the embarrassment of the city. So, I think it's time that we had this. It's not flushed out in terms of the job description. The best description we have was what Boise had, but it's going to be something along the lines of what you see in your packet, but I think that there will be other elements added. I don't think it's -- it's not a CPA position, but it's somebody who is financially astute and is able to do research and investigation into matters related to the relationship between the Council and the operations of the City of Meridian. Whether there is agreement or disagreement about the administration, the bottom line is the dollars and cents of the city are our responsibility as a Council and we need somebody in there that reports directly to us and brings to our attention issues that we may need to know about. But occasionally I think there is a feeling on the part of the Council that we are not getting sufficient communication or may not get sufficient communication on issues that we are dealing with after the fact. So, that's -- that's the history behind it. It has a fair amount of work yet to become a reality. It is here so we do that. It's here so you can do that. As you investigate it and you find that there isn't any, it will be easier to take it out of the budget than trying to add it in the budget in the next year. So, there you go. De Weerd: The devil is in the detail. Rountree: The devil is in the details. De Weerd: Okay. So, any questions about this FTE request? Or comments? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 22 of 76 Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Just know that you would set the example of how to fill out an enhancement form. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I agree wholeheartedly. We have discussed this for a couple three years and I thought everybody was in on knowing what it is. I think it's something that it's time that we have not only to do as Councilman Rountree stated, but also to look at policies and stuff like that and make sure we stay up on top of our policies and they are done right to protect the employees and the citizens and everybody concerned. So, I'm wholeheartedly in favor of it. I think it's probably a year or two -- we should have done it a year or two sooner. De Weerd: I guess I look forward to the discussion on what it really is. I will tell you that in talking with Boise that because employees -- Council cannot act as a single person, they have to act as a body. They have oversight from an audit committee and I don't know who comprises of this audit committee to decide the work. Robert did talk to the mayor's office and it sounds like this position works well for Jade Riley in the mayor's office. So, like I said, the devil is in the details and I appreciate Councilman Rountree's statement that if we talk about it, if it seems like there can be maybe a shift of resources that we currently have, that it wouldn't be needed, but I do know as the department moves towards the priority base budgeting, that with the strategic plan and the key measurements there are going to have to be -- there is going to have to be help in assimilating the implementation of the priority based budgeting and doing the analysis that is required on that type of budgeting process and looking at -- looking at key performance measurements and we are kind of seeing how on earth we are going to have resources to look at that. So, those will be, hopefully, topics that are part of the discussion about a position that can look at policies, performance, efficiencies and those kind of things. Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Madam Mayor. I guess this would be part of the discussion. As we talked about it before, I have been in favor of having this. I guess I wasn't connecting that the City Council would now have an employee. So, I guess that still -- my question still is what's the reporting structure going to be? How is that going to work? De Weerd: And I think that that's a struggle that other cities -- because council is not supposed to have staffing authority. I don't know. Mr. Nary, do you want to answer that? Nary: Under the Idaho Code the separation between the powers of the legislative body of the city and the executive body of the city -- one of those lines is employees. So, the Idaho Code -- in my opinion and other city attorney opinions say all employees work for City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 23 of 76 the Mayor, if they are just employees. If they are appointed they can, then, be accountable and reportable to both the Mayor and Council, like all the department directors of the city or you can contract for employment. So, you have -- as Council Member Rountree mentioned, you have a current contract with a company that's doing some financial accounting and some review of some financial information for you. So, you can -- council can contract with a group -- with someone. The council could have someone appointed and, then, is reportable both to the Mayor and the Council, but if they are employees under the Idaho Code, then, they would work directly for the Mayor. I mean ultimately in the reporting structure they would work for the Mayor, because the Mayor is the operational head of the city. So, that's part of the discussion I think the Mayor is talking about is trying to figure out how to make the desire the Council's wanting of a position to fit into the structure of what the code allows, because as the Mayor also stated, the Council doesn't have authority to act individually, it's always collectively. Trying to be a collective entity over one individual is somewhat problematic, you know, on very simple things it could be very problematic. So, those are the things I'm thinking the Mayor is talking about and trying to flush that out as we move forward and making that clear, so we don't have a circumstance where we are not really matched up with what the code really allows, but, again, we can work those out in the details. Zaremba: Thank you. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Two questions on that for Legal or maybe Councilman Rountree. Is the enhancement request for the dollar line item, the manner in which it would be characterized for future discussion, whether it's a contract or an employee or does the enhancement request designate that now? Kilchenmann: It -- Councilman Borton, if any personnel now -- if it were a contract we would move it to operating, but I think when we -- when you approve the budget you're not going to approve, you know, personnel operating, so as long as you don't increase it -- Borton: We are okay. Kilchenmann: -- it's okay, we will just leave it. Reallocate it. Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: A second question. As this gets developed is -- I anticipate some extensive resources from Finance, one way or the other, that we are all aware of will probably be in addition to the expense that's identified here. We can anticipate seeing something, whatever that might be. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 24 of 76 Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, yes, audit takes a lot of Finance time, so we -- De Weerd: And IT. Kilchenmann: Yeah. It can take a lot of IT resources, too. So, hopefully, the person will learn how to pull documents and refile documents and read the accounting system, because we have -- our external auditor probably goes from December through February and the audit we just had -- we had a conference room full of documents. So, it does -- in speaking to Boise it does -- they do rely on -- on, you know, the accounting staff, but they have got like 1,500 employees, so they are definitely much larger than we are. Maybe they could just finish auditing -- they could audit us and be done in a month, I don't know, but good question. De Weerd: Well -- and I think those details again -- those are generally vetted out as we look at the position creation, the description, what support resources it's going to need. So, that will all fall out as this is further defined. Borton: Great. Thanks. De Weerd: The last one under enhancements added was under the Community Development. That is a discussion that Council had at the first budget hearing the first day on the PPS lighter, quicker, cheaper aspect that we are looking at responding to the report that PPS gave, looking for a match from MDC to do some of these lighter, quicker, cheaper items. Do you need anything further from Bruce on that? Okay. Council, why don't we take a 15 minute break and, then, when we reconvene we will start going through department by department. Okay. (Recess: 9:57 a.m. to 10:19 a.m.) De Weerd: Okay. We will reconvene this budget workshop. We are going to do the Enterprise Fund first and walk through it as we have done in the past. If Todd will bring up that budget. And I guess any questions -- we will look through the replacements, if there is none there, we will go into the -- the enhancements. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: May I ask an overall question? With -- sorry. May I ask an overall question? With the added enhancements and changed enhancements are we beginning with a balanced budget? Is it balanced the way it is? De Weerd: In -- in Public Works and Enterprise? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 25 of 76 Zaremba: No. I mean the whole city. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, each fund is different and unique. So, the Enterprise Fund -- if you mean by a balanced budget does revenue -- new revenue minus new expenses equal zero, then, no. But if you mean have we -- if you mean new revenue, plus fund balance, minus expenses equals zero, then, yes. So, both funds are in compliance with state statute. Both do use fund balance to get there, which is not unplanned. It is planned I should say. Does that answer your question? Zaremba: That was a better way to put it than I even asked. Yes. Thank you. That's what I was looking for. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Zaremba. And thank you, Stacy. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I have a question about some information we just got. Jaycee, what software do we use to open those files? It's directing me to a quiz question here that I don't have an answer for. Holman: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, are you using laserfiche to open it? For documents where you normally go during a City Council meeting I drug them over into the -- Rountree: Yes. Holman: -- and it won't open it? Rountree: No. Holman: Again, I don't know. I'm -- Rountree: I just wanted to be able to play with it here. Holman: David's working on it right now. Rountree: Okay. I will wait. Thank you, David. Go ahead. De Weerd: Okay. Any questions regarding the replacements? If not, let's scroll down. Okay. Council, anything under Public Works? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 26 of 76 Rountree: Not a question, but we have the addition request on the enhancements for the safety manager -- or safety coordinator. Bird: It's in here. Rountree: I understand it's in there. The question is is that where we want it to go? There has been considerable debate, so I just bring it up. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: And I have been the biggest debater. I want -- I was going to ask Tom to come back with a plan of what they are going to -- how they are going to do this with their employee and if it's a full 40 hour week job and what they are going to do. I felt at this point I'd leave it in and, then, when we had the public hearing if I'm not satisfied, then, I will argue at that point about it, because we can't -- we can't add, but we can take out at the public hearing. De Weerd: Okay. Additional discussion in the Public Works enhancements? Okay. I will move to Water. So, is everyone comfortable moving from Water to the resource recovery something or other. Bird: Wastewater treatment plant. De Weerd: I almost got it. Zaremba: Water resource recovery plant. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Tom, remind me what the heavy equipment was out there. I forgot. Barry: Councilman Bird, that heavy equipment includes a lift for moving large chemical palates, for example, in and out of workshop areas and to the appropriate locations. I think -- Laurelei, is there another piece of equipment? That was the largest one. De Weerd: We need that on the record. Barry: Yeah. De Weerd: Sorry. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 27 of 76 Barry: While she is coming up, let me introduce to you our newest wastewater superintendant Laurelei -- De Weerd: Wastewater? Barry: Yes. It's the wastewater division. The facility is called the wastewater resource recovery facility. So -- De Weerd: Okay. I'm going to call it the WWTP. Barry: Right. Okay. You keep it WWTP in the books, that doesn't matter, we are trying to give a name to the plant that will be more fitting and understandable to the community. But the division is wastewater. Our superintendant Laurelei McVey has stepped in to the position. De Weerd: Welcome -- McVey: Thank you. De Weerd: -- to your first official budget hearing. Exciting, uh? McVey: So, Councilman Bird, the two pieces of equipment that we will be getting, one is a larger lift to pull large pumps and motors. The second would be a smaller type lift that would allow us to access booths and lighting throughout the plant. Bird: Okay. I couldn't remember. I remember Tracy stated that day, but I couldn't remember what it was. Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: And, Laurelei, can you explain why we need to have the equipment on site, rather than renting or -- McVey: Madam Mayor, the reason that we would like the equipment on site would be allow us to complete more in-house repairs and also respond to downed equipment faster. Right now we have to call out rental companies to rent cranes and lift to move that equipment. So, this would allow us to do that with our own internal staff and be able to repair most of that equipment in our new maintenance facility. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: And you do have gentlemen that are qualified and trained and will be trained on these -- McVey: Absolutely, Councilman Bird. We have a really good maintenance staff. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 28 of 76 Bird: Thank you. Yeah, you do. You have a good staff, period, out there. De Weerd Anything else? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: To that question, remind me what the -- the rental offset is -- save the expenditures on renting that equipment if you go forward with this purchase. McVey: Councilman Borton, we did not necessarily calculate that exactly. It's really dependent on how often equipment breaks down or is serviced, so most of that equipment needs to be removed at least once a year just for routine maintenance, but it really depends on if equipment breaks and a not planned environment. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: So, if it was -- and maybe someone -- maybe tommy up the number, I mean if it's 5,000 dollars a year, for example, to rent equipment to accommodate that, it might not be as worthy an expenditure as 70 or 80 thousand a year, so -- that number might be important. McVey: Councilman Borton, it runs up approximately 1,500 to 3,000 each time we have to rent a crane, depending on the type and size of crane that we have to rent. Borton: Okay. Barry: I think, Councilman Borton, if I may -- De Weerd: How about the availability? With the construction right now, do you have problem with availability when you need them? McVey: We -- Madam Mayor. We do at times. We are totally reliant on -- if those cranes are available and sometimes, like you mentioned, they are out on other job sites and we have to wait several days, up to a week. We also have to coordinate when that equipment has been taken out of service and taken to the shop, we have to coordinate the rental of the crane again to put it back in, so this heavy equipment would allow us to reduce that down, because we would have the equipment on site to be able to put it right back into service as soon as we can get it finished. Barry: I think maybe as an addition to that point, the concern is making sure that the treatment plant, which is a 24 hour, seven day a week operation, can't shut down, that we have available the resources we need in order to make -- make sure that the plant is City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 29 of 76 continuously operating and if we are held hostage by the availability that really is the biggest concern that we are trying to overcome at this point in time. The cost is not going to come out favorable for purchase of our own equipment and we know that intuitively. We haven't done the numbers. We didn't bother to do the numbers. What we did is we based this request on the likelihood for failure and the issues associated with failure and the trouble that we have had with availability of the resource in order to get the equipment back on site and removed -- essentially maintained or fixed and, then, put back into service as quickly as we can. So, this is really the insurance means for us, as well as also moving around the large chemical totes and other sorts of things, which operationally has been difficult with the little lift that we have out there right now. So, we want to replace the lift that we have currently with the smaller lift that Laurelei was just talking about and, then, have the larger one for bigger jobs, essentially, that we have had to rent out recently for, so hopefully that helps. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Tom, what's the tonnage on the biggest lift you're getting or the crane? Barry: We have to go back to the enhancement, I believe, is it -- I don't even want to guess. Let me grab these enhancements, if you don't mind. So, one of them was 5,000 pounds. Anything around the facility -- I think that's the smaller one. And I can't remember the tonnage on the larger one. McVey: Councilman Bird, what we would do before we purchased this equipment is have our maintenance supervisor go through the list of equipment and find, you know, what is the largest -- Bird: Make sure you have got the heaviest. McVey: Yeah. Bird: And 5,000 pounds, that isn't -- Barry: No. That's -- Bird: That's not very -- that's a pretty -- Barry: Right. Bird: -- that's pretty small. Barry: That's just what -- the smaller totes that we were just talking about that we move around. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 30 of 76 Bird: Move around. Barry: That's what those are. The other point to mention is that Star Crane, which is one of the vendors that we rely heavily on for the removal and moving of large infrastructure at the treatment plant is wanting to discontinue the service, so that's another reason for us wanting to move towards, essentially, acquiring the equipment that will allow us to have access the availability and the resources need at the time the issues occur at the treatment plant. Bird: Okay. While I agree with Councilman Borton, you got to look real hard to see if renting it isn't the best way or -- you know. But I'm -- I have no problem if you guys will come back before the public and let -- a public hearing and let us know what kind of tonnage you're looking at in the big crane, because when you -- if you get a big crane or something you got a lot of liability and stuff there that -- that is maybe best to hire those outside and let somebody else have the liability and let us know what tonnage you need on the crane. Barry: We will do that. Thank you. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Milam: Just wondering in discussing cranes. So, did you say that the company you're renting from is going to discontinue service? Does that mean they are going to discontinue renting or -- McVey: Councilman Milam, what Tom was referring to -- they have one crane that is -- it actually refers to that tertiary filter building crane enhancement. They have one crane that is able to reach inside the door and pull it. That crane is not I guess road worthy, so they have to bring it in on a truck and they are actually looking to get rid of that crane and it's the only crane in the valley that can remove that pump, so the -- the other enhancement that actually put cranes inside the building is the one that would address that issue. Milam: Could we buy theirs? Less expensive. Barry: Well, actually, yeah, what Laurelei is just referring to is the other lift that we have, the overhead lift that runs and is mounted inside the tertiary filter building, is the one that would replace the need to hire or have any kind of mobile crane that would reach inside, which is actually more dangerous in trying to maneuver large pieces of equipment, we have one that is designed to be extended from the roof, which is much, much better for safety, reliability, accessibility and all those -- De Weerd: And that's a tertiary filter building crane. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 31 of 76 Barry: Correct. That's the crane lift for that one. That's not the heavy equipment that we were just referring to. De Weerd: No. On the heavy equipment -- I assume these are pictures of them? Barry: That's very similar to the stuff we take -- Bird: That isn't a heavy -- that isn't a heavy equipment -- that isn't a crane. Barry: No. It's a lift. Bird: I mean -- what do you lift with that? McVey: So, with that we would be able to pull some of the pumps and motors. The really large one, like the mixers on top of the digesters, that would, obviously, not extend high enough. Bird: Plus you can also move pallets around. McVey: Yes. Yeah. Bird: Okay. You don't have to -- you don't have to find the tonnage. I -- I should have had my memory cap on. Barry: Thank you, Mr. Bird. De Weerd: Yeah. What's going on? Bird: Losing my memory. I'm getting old. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: At or before the public hearing. That's a great explanation of it. Can you share the frequency and duration of the rental of that equipment that's being solved by this over the last maybe two or three years? Understanding it's not going to, obviously, exceed the cost of the equipment, but it would be important to see and I don't know if that's a Finance question or a question to you. Barry: Yeah. We can definitely help. Borton: Thanks. De Weerd: Well, I think it's not only cost, but it's frequency. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 32 of 76 Borton: Frequency and duration. Bird: This isn't going to lift anything. De Weerd: Sorry I had to show him the picture. Barry: Picture is worth a thousand words. Bird: Be lucky to get me up that high without tipping over. De Weerd: Come on. Barry: Sounds good. Any other questions on that enhancement or any others for wastewater? De Weerd: Okay. Council, are you ready to move to Community Development? Bird: Community Development. Yeah. De Weerd: Any questions about the enhancements? Rountree: Roll the slide down. There you go. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Are we replacing everybody's computer? We got 15.5 employees and we got 14 computers. Chatterton: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bird, if you remember, if we have a core of contractors and inspectors -- Bird: Uh? Chatterton: We have -- we have a big core of contractors and inspectors. Bird: Oh, this is for the building department. Chatterton: Yes. Yes. And a number of these are those -- De Weerd: We merged them together. Bird: I know that. I know that. I know that. But I -- okay. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 33 of 76 Chatterton: A number of them -- of those computers are the motion tablets, which have currently not worked out that well and most of those are being replaced. Bird: Okay. So, most of them are for your inspectors and stuff? Chatterton: Yes. Bird: They didn't -- you say the motion ones didn't work? Chatterton: Well, the -- Bird: And we are getting new ones? Chatterton: The old ones were -- were not working that well and it's also due to be replaced, so it's sort of a combination of inspectors and IT as well dealing some hardware which wasn't working that well. Now we will be in much better shape. Bird: Okay, Bruce. De Weerd: And we want them to use our computers, because of security, compatibility and all of that. Chatterton: Yes. And, Madam Mayor, as well we require them to heavily use Accella in the field and in the office and so we really need to provide the computing system for that. Bird: That's no problem at all. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions about the replacements? Any discussions on the enhancements? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: It is -- one question on the fields district development plan. Give me some -- maybe some more clarity on this particular plan. When I look back at the content of the fields district study and some of the -- I think there were those five recommended projects or focus areas, are we by funding a plan like this going down a path where we -- the city has made a commitment to certain -- take certain action on these five areas? Ag based tourism development. Ag innovation center. I didn't have my head around from those studies what that might entail, so I'm not really clear on funding this particular development portion of the study. I don't really have my head around -- is the city committed to any sort of development to an ag innovation center or ag tourism? Chatterton: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, no, this study did not commit us to at. I think we realized that in order for any of these projects in the fields district to be in City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 34 of 76 place we need to acquire partners. And we have been talking to Nampa. We will be talking to Canyon county as well. De Weerd: Canyon county? Chatterton: Well, I meant Canyon county from the standpoint of coordination -- De Weerd: As well. Chatterton: The idea being that had we still left on the table the idea of a co-location of fairgrounds, you know, is there still something more or the relocation of the Ada county fairgrounds. A fairground -- a new fairground properly built, actually, would be a sort of ag experience facility in and of itself on the things that can happen year around there. The idea is to develop the project more -- the idea -- and it's not really spelled out in the enhancement, Council Member, is also to look at innovative ways to preserve agriculture within our area of impact. We just started to talk to some of our partners about that idea of -- we had some issues now out in northwest Meridian where we have an Intermountain Gas facility that perhaps will be expanding. That facility is going to need a buffer zone, a safety buffer zone around it and perhaps we could -- agriculture almost certainly would be -- would be a piece of that. So, we are beginning to talk with Nampa and with both counties about how to -- to best plan that area and develop it. So, it wouldn't -- this enhancement wouldn't necessarily be to develop those particular projects, but the idea of what will northwest Meridian be, what will south Meridian be, and are there ways in which we can put existing agriculture and keep it -- keep it in production into the future. De Weerd: I think there is a lot of moving parts to this to take the economic audit that we received this last year and start working with our regional partners to flush out both the economic development piece to it, the project potential, agri preservation, but also I think he is going to be working with our -- our neighboring communities to insure that transitional and land uses are considered. Some of the concerns from industry, as we were talking to them -- and certainly you have seen this in Canyon county, is there is a conflict between residential and the ag industry and so it's looking at that part of our community and how you would protect business investment and transition the kind of industry clusters that our economic audit considered and the residential. So, how that would look. Chatterton: And at the end of the day, Council Members, this may be as much an exercise in good land use policy, more than it would be developing any of these particular projects. I think we would need to have interest from a partner or partners to advance say the ag experience or the ag innovation projects. W e would need to get some real traction on those before we would be able to -- to really proceed with developing those projects. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 35 of 76 Borton: To accomplish that goal using fire as an example and the collaborative approach of that plan, to have some of the stakeholders participate -- not only financially in the study portion of it, but it also allows the solution to be presented in a more regional fashion. If -- or Canyon county, for example, is part of the solution, does it make sense not only to invite them to help fund a study such as this, but also make sure that the results that come from it aren't limited to solutions within Meridian if, in fact, the regional solution -- perhaps it's not. Perhaps it's -- you know, in Canyon county adjacent to Meridian. The study would determine where that ag solution and the breadth of the land use solutions -- you know, if it's not just Meridian focus, have they been approached or are we precluded from approaching them to participate financially and allow the study scope to be broader? De Weerd: You know, I guess at this point this placeholder contemplates part of a larger project or doing it on our own. Certainly if you look at the economic audit it was considered in order for it to work it really needs to be regional in scope. We have talked to Ada county. Ada county has an interest in certainly -- from both the commissioner and the planning staff that Bruce and I are organizing a meeting on. Once we get on the same page it's talking with Canyon county, have talked to Nampa, they wanted to finish up their land use comprehensive plan piece and so there is still a lot of moving parts here, but because this has been deemed a priority we wanted to make sure that we had resources identified that we can do something on our end. We are hoping it's part of a larger regional project, but if it's not we would still have to flush out the items that were brought out in the economic audit and look at transitional land use, working with the landowners out in that area to really determine highest and best use and how we can preserve open space and ag in that area, as has been communicated as a priority. Borton: Thanks. That helps. Chatterton: Well said. De Weerd: Okay. Additional questions? Okay. Thank you, Bruce. Okay. Anything further on this -- on Community Development? Okay. I will move to the General Fund. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, there is one change on here we didn't mention. On the motorcycle officer, Jeff's plan was to only do that if they received the grant. I believe they won't know about the grant -- October? De Weerd: I believe the Council said put it in there. Kilchenmann: Yeah. We decided that it was important enough that we would do it regardless of the grant, so we have taken the grant funding out. So, this doesn't reflect the grant funding. So, there is still the possibility that there will be revenue to offset the first three years, I believe. De Weerd: Okay. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 36 of 76 Kilchenmann: So, that would change the numbers, since the Council last saw the end of this -- this summary. De Weerd: So, I guess that could add to the discussion if the grant was received, that money that's budgeted could shift into the fund balance. Kilchenmann: Correct. De Weerd: Okay. Or the public safety fund. Kilchenmann: Probably that would be a good place for it and just to -- because I think I will have a question on this. So, Councilman Borton noticed that last year we had about 500,000 something left at this point and we said we are going to put it into the CIP fund. We never literally actually appropriated it to go in the CIP fund, which is something we can do. If you want something to go into fund balance we can literally appropriate it and transfer it. So, we are -- the CIP fund is looking more healthy. It's -- you know, because we are getting this building revenue in and we are not really spending it. The public safety fund is looking not so very healthy. We -- I mean it serves a purpose. We did use it for part of the training center, but now we should probably turn our attention to increasing it and there is a couple different ways to do it. One way is we can let this year roll through, so let '15 end and, then, if there is -- we discover that we have left over funds we can start October by doing an appropriation -- a dreaded budget amendment, but this one will be just to transfer money into the -- into that public safety fund. So, that's one mechanism. Can do it in this budget, which means probably reducing something in this budget, but that's just kind of where we are fund balance wise or ideas to think about, so I -- I probably -- you know. Well, it's up to you. If you want to reduce this budget or if you want to fund the public safety fund through end of year. De Weerd: Okay. I guess in the General Fund we can start with the replacements and open this up for any questions. Bird: We can't get rid of the Grand Marquis. De Weerd: Oh, yes, we can. Bird: Bill likes driving that. De Weerd: No. That's Ken. And he has to carry around a battery kick starter. You can pile a lot of MYACers into it, though, right, Luke? Cavener: Lots. Bird: I'd say something, but I better not. De Weerd: Under replacements I think one of the questions that came up during day one of the budget and certainly one that I put out there was -- there were two fire engines that City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 37 of 76 were requested to replace. The budget that was presented to you only had one of the two recommended and if you wanted to have discussion on the second engine. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: I don't know how detailed of a discussion on that topic we would get into at this meeting, but in light of Stacy's comment and some of the options that we have more holistically with this budget process, the idea of -- if not including a second engine within this budget, to insure that we do allocate funds, at least from my perspective, whether it's into the public safety fund generally or, quite frankly, into a specific -- the fire truck replacement fund, which has been done before, we know that these expenditures, which have been in the capital improvement plan for a number of years, they are there and if that helps lessen the -- the sting of a large expense of a fire truck -- the one included today, obviously, doesn't solve the problem that we have known of for years in the natural process of replacing these. So, one of the aspects of this budget that I think will be important is to make a specific allocation and designate some funds for future fire truck acquisition and, again, how -- if that's placed in a broader public safety fund, had been done most recently or into a specific designation for a fire truck. One of those two is I believe important and prudent to do. De Weerd: I think it probably needs to be specifically to a fire truck line item. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: We used to have that and, then, it kind of was overshadowed when we did the public safety fund. It was kind of blended together and if -- these are big ticket items and I think it's important to make sure that we have those investments. Mr. Bird. Bird: I agree. I think that we put it in a truck fund like we used to and -- I don't know. We -- I can't remember what the recommendation on the trucks are, 15 or 20 years. Uh? Ten? So, you know, if we put 75,000 a year every ten years we could -- you know, for ten years we would have -- I know for another one or so you're going to have to probably -- have to bite the bullet, but right now this year I would have no problem putting 35 into a truck fund -- starting up a truck fund and buying the one we got. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, if I -- if I could -- so, this fund that we are calling the public safety fund that we used to call the truck fund, it's literally cash investment, it's a fund with a fund checking account. Opening another one of those is not very cost effective, because, then, we got the fees from investing, we -- if we -- you know. So, we can designate it and call it for a fire truck, we can definitely do that. Put the designation on it. We can change the name of the fund, but I wouldn't want to actually literally open a new fund when we already have one. I think the only thing we have used it for police is for the -- is for the training center. So, police generally -- well, I shouldn't say that. I won't say that, but they wouldn't have use -- but we can definitely designate where the money goes City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 38 of 76 that we put into it. This budget -- if you put money into it you have to take something out of the budget. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Yeah. I don't care what you call the fund, you can put it in the General Fund as long as you designate each year. It's the same thing we did with the parks for the playground out at Settlers. So, I -- yeah, you can call the fund anything you want, as long as we know that there is X amount of dollars that's been set aside for a fire truck. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: That sounds like a sensible and reasonable idea to me, but I contrast that with the idea of just-in-time financing. We would be tying this money up. We know these expenses are coming and I agree with planning for them, but we seem to be going a different direction than the just-in-time financing conversation we had earlier. I'm not sure how to handle that. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, just-in-time financing is a particular Tom method. We don't do that in the General Fund, because if you look at our fund balance we have a finite fund balance. So, we have really no way to raise funds to change the course of that and we can't raise fees if we -- if it looks like something is going to cost more, we can't raise fees to meet it. So, we have to be very careful with how we budget our General Fund balance. So, we literally save for our projects and, then, do them. If we were just to take the approach -- well, because that approach we'd buy the fire truck right now -- we would buy two fire trucks, we would buy three fire trucks and, then, we would worry about one next year or the next year. So, we are just like working with ten million dollars here that's free and clear. So, we need -- before we make a half a million dollar investment, we need to save up for it or we need to cut another 500,000 out of this budget. So, it's like -- how do you explain it? De Weerd: Just-in-time financing is because in Public Works and many of our other departments, you are judging your performance based on what you're able to do that year. The fire truck fund is a savings that is specifically targeted, just like we do in a number of our capital improvement plan projects. It's a savings. But just-in-time financing -- or budgeting is so you can judge -- you can judge your performance based on what you anticipated spending in that year. So, it's -- it helps better track that you are anticipating those -- those performance measure per se. So, two different things. Zaremba: I think I'm getting that, in which case I'm in favor of socking money away for a fire truck. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 39 of 76 De Weerd: Socking. That's a -- that's a budget term. Yes. Rountree: A mattress. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: To that point of socking away money, which I support as well. Really, what that does as I see it -- and use the fire truck as an example. We have got a capital improvement plan that the city adopts and, you know, within it it forecasts those types of expenditures and the objective matrix for replacing a fire truck -- both fire trucks, quite frankly they seem to exist today and one of the challenges that not socking away money creates is you have no expenditure and, then, you have got a million one to try to replace two of them. Whether that was within a capital improvement plan or not, that plan doesn't fund, so you get to a budget session such as this -- De Weerd: Not constrained. Borton: -- and the problem is we, then, might take pause to fund a million for two trucks, when, quite frankly, that might have been consistent within the plan and funding it should have been that natural course of what we do. If socking away funds in lieu of something else, it's an absolutely must. I don't think it -- I don't think it's a discretionary choice at all. We know it's coming. It's coming a lot quicker than ten years and there will be maybe a discussion at some point from the chief before the public hearing, maybe at that hearing, to get us comfortable with what that figure is. I think it's a lot more than 75,000 dollars. We have planned for those expenditures to come quicker, too. So, that makes it more difficult to balance this particular budget and there is other factors to that as well. But as long as we are mindful of funding that, knowing what's coming down the road. De Weerd: Well, Mr. Borton, I guess you raise a good point. As Stacy mentioned, the discussion for this current budget year was to put money in the capital improvement plan and this -- this Council could determine that what we have in savings at the end of 2015 could be designated for a fire truck fund if -- if that is -- if that would be your desire. So -- and, I don't know, maybe -- Stacy just gave me the Eagle eye -- or evil eye. I'm not sure which. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, this is an if we have savings at the end of the year. In '15 -- Rita, help me out. I don't -- or '14 we did not. Bird: There has been savings every year. De Weerd: Yeah, we did. Bird: We have had savings every year. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 40 of 76 Kilchenmann: Okay. They don't have it memorized. De Weerd: Wow. Kilchenmann: So, yes, we definitely can do that. I do remember in the personnel, which was where we have got the bulk of our funding before, we have just taken what was -- like here is budget, here is personnel, there is funds left over. We moved that into that fund that we are now calling the fire truck fund and I -- last year there wasn't savings of personnel. We had 500,000 last year in income from the General Fund. There. That's the answer. De Weerd: There is a fire truck. Kilchenmann: If -- but that's in '14, so -- Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: On your -- on the fire -- on the fire truck fund, you probably -- you're probably going to not save 550,000 before you need one, but if you save 100,000, that's only 450 you have to budget that year for. It's just something that -- we never did save for a complete fire truck, but we -- we didn't have to budget -- we didn't have to take 550,000 out of one budget for a fire truck, because we had been saving for five or six years. That's all I'm saying and I think that's -- that to me is just being smart. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Well -- Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I agree with all that and if the source of the funds is a way to sweep unused funds -- if -- we have collected more than we budgeted for and we can sweep those unused funds into a fire truck, I'm in favor of that with one caveat, I would like -- if we do have a surplus at the end of any year, I would like a portion of that reserved for the parks department as well. So, I'm -- I'm in favor of the idea, but I probably wouldn't put it a hundred percent on the fire truck. Something needs to be going to the parks department as well. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, I think we can make that discussion at the end of the year when you knew how much money you were dealing with, because you could have zero, you could have 500,000 or you could have -- you know, this fall we will, as a group, be working on a capital improvement plan again and so, then, we are going to have a good idea where we need to be and how far away we are from getting there. I think right now if we strip the city down to what we have to do, what we are mandated to do, which is public safety, we know that we are going to have to open a fire station and building the fire station isn't a challenge, because we can build that out of impact fees and buy the first City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 41 of 76 truck we can do it out of impact fees. It's replacing the truck. So, I don't know how many trucks are out there now, but there needs -- for replacement, according to the fire department, there is a lot more than two trucks. So, I think it's hard to say now that we are going to say this goes to parks, this goes to fire, this goes the police, but that's probably a decision among the list of decisions that -- attack was planning -- well, attention of their capital improvement fund -- I mean, yeah, plan. But I think right now the need is fire. And, again, this budget won't -- if you just look at this budget it's zero. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam and, then, Mr. Rountree. Milam: From my memory we had his almost identical conversation last year and so I don't know what happened. We should already have a fund that we started based on the conversation that we had during budget. But at the end of this I would like a specific number set up to go to towards a fire truck fund for an engine or just that fund, because it's -- obviously it's necessary and we don't have, you know, 500,000 dollars every year to buy an engine. So, I think we -- it's very important to have something very specific set up at the conclusion of this discussion. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, there is one more thing. You can also buy a fire truck out of the capital improve fund. We can do that. And it's got about what? It's got about 3.9 million at the end of the year. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Madam Mayor, the idea of this reactive financing is not the way to go. If, in fact, we want to establish funding categories or a public safety fund, we need to fund it in budget, not rely on the fact that funds aren't going to get spent. If, in fact, that's what you want to do, there is some things in here we ought not to be doing. What those are, it's up to us. The idea that we are sitting here talking about funding public safety and any other function of the city based on what we will save is ludicrous. We should be budgeting what we want to do to accomplish the mission that we have established. Now, there are some things that some people think are mission critical, but maybe the idea of buying a fire truck next year or two years from now is a little more critical than some other component. So, it's a matter of setting our priorities and making the hard decisions about things that people don't really necessarily want us to do in terms of the staff and department heads -- in some case even ourselves, but the reality is we have got to do it. If we are going to do it, let's not sit here and fool ourselves as to how we are going to do this, because we are going to save a lot of money. Well, if we are going to save a lot of money, let's save it right here. Let's save it in this budget. Put aside -- maybe give ourselves an incentive. If we budget some money we are going to take some money out of the capital improvement fund to match it to get something done that we need to get done. But annually to -- and I'm as guilty as the rest of us have been is that it's -- you know there is things that aren't going to be purchased, you know there is things that are in this budget that we really don't need and it does -- and people are not going to be filling positions that City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 42 of 76 are empty and all of that money accrues to a carry over. Well, that ought to be our rainy day fund. That ought to go into our rainy day fund, any carryover. We out to be budgeting for what we think we need and if we -- if we really need something, we ought not to be crossing our fingers and hoping that there is going to be that money saved to do it and that's my lecture for the day. De Weerd: Well -- and I would just point out, as Stacy mentioned, there is money in the capital improvement plan and fire engines are in the capital improvement plan. So, it's not like it's not anticipated to be funded, it's -- it's in the plan. But as Councilman Borton mentioned, the capital improvement plan is -- is not fiscally constrained and that's going to be a project that you will need to tackle this year is to make sure it is. So, anyway, that's -- that's my little lecture, too. And if you -- I heard Councilman Borton say something about the public hearing that the chief would have some comments. If he has comments I think you need to hear them now. Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, I do have comments. I have been listening and I do first and foremost appreciate the discussion of trying to plan better for the future and I understand the focus right now is on fire trucks. They are a great cost. But as we discussed with Councilman Borton when we met with him yesterday as a staff, this is a big citywide issue as well. You have police cars that are capital over long term. When you bought a fire department you invested in a commercial fleet is what we have. We are not talking about cars and pickups, we are talking about commercial vehicles and they cost a lot of money. Moving forward, I can tell you what our current crisis is right now today. We have four engines that are being -- have been deemed critical for replacement. That's based on a scoring evaluation matrix that we sat down yesterday with Councilman Borton to discuss. Those four vehicles are well over a hundred thousand miles. One of them is pushing 170,000 miles. That is our current crisis. So, delaying one just adds to the next year and that's the challenge that we have is that buying one this year I understand the money is what it is, but rest assured next year I will be coming back with two simply based on the crisis that we are in. I would love to get to a point, as President Rountree indicated, of not being reactionary, but having a well thought out plan moving forward to fund those capital replacements, because this doesn't end. The challenge -- and this was eye opening to me is this year's fire truck that we are replacing is the first fire truck this department has every had to replace in our history, the one that is being built right now. We are now in that cycle that we have never had to be in before. As we move forward that cycling to continue now and Stacy alluded to as we build a station that's one more vehicle to put into this commercial fleet management program. So, I do appreciate the discussion on how do we move forward into the future with a good plan to fund these things and not just -- not just for the fire department, but for the city as a whole with these large capital items that are going to continue to need replacing and whereas that land is priority over doing something new or doing something different, it is a challenge and one that we are very well aware of. We have put together -- and we will have a copy for each one of you, a very comprehensive fleet management book just for the fire department as we looked at our apparatus and how we evaluate the need to replace it is not based on a whim. It incorporates several different factors that we have identified as best practice in fleet management. Not just mileage, but hours on the engine, hours on the pump, City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 43 of 76 condition of the apparatus and so on and so forth and we shared that with Councilman Borton yesterday. It's as well thought out and comprehensive as I feel we can get in managing a commercial fleet. I don't know that I helped, but -- but I do appreciate the conversation and discussion and I do need to make sure that I'm articulating where we are at right now. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: While we do need the fire engines -- 83 percent of our calls are medical and we don't need an engine out there and a year ago we were going to get some facts back about switching to -- to some squads or something to respond on those and I haven't heard a thing on it. Maybe Councilman Borton has. But I think that's -- that’s a feasible thing for us to definitely look into -- Niemeyer: Absolutely. Bird: -- and we don't have to have it in every station, but two or three stations or two out of the five stations would be fantastic. Niemeyer: And, Councilman Bird, to your point, I did hear that loud and clear at our first budget presentation. We are collecting research right now. In October we have a three day retreat where we are going to go and that's all we are going to be discussing is with the ARV program I think we do need to be cautious in how we approach it and that is what are we trying to solve. I have heard that already said once today, to make sure that we identify what are we trying to solve and I think there is several things there that we have an idea of what we are trying to solve, one of them being wear and tear on the engines as we are in our current environment. I think there is some other things that we are also going to be discussing and bringing back to you a very comprehensive analysis and program with regards to any kind of alternative response vehicle. But we did hear you loud and clear and we are moving forward on that. De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Since you're here, refresh my memory if you would. About six, maybe seven years ago we refurbished a truck that we had and I know there is an expense to that that's nearly half of buying a new one and the discussion at the time was this is not a forever solution, but off the top of your head give me a comparison of refurbishing and buying new again and -- Niemeyer: Sure. Zaremba: -- what's your recommendation? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 44 of 76 Niemeyer: The refurbishment process was something that was going on right about the time I was named the chief. It had already been set in motion. I was not familiar with it at the time, so we went through that. We refurbished two engines, one is Engine 39, one is Engine 32. Having gone through the process -- the anticipated goal that was stated was that we extend the life of that engine for five years at as a reserve engine by doing this refurbishment. The refurbishment goes and it paints the vehicle, it creates some new cabinets, it does an inspection, but it doesn't change your engine, doesn't change your transmission, doesn't change the guts of the engine. As I look at Engine 39, we bought that in 1993 for 187,000 dollars. We spent 242,000 on the refurbishment of that engine. We did get the five years out of it, but it didn't prolong the life so we could say that was a good return on investment. So, in my opinion the refurbishments -- because you're not changing that transmission, that engine, that's really what the problems are, within the pump housing, those parts that have got 187,000 -- or 150,000 miles on them, whatever the mileage is. I don't think you get your return on investment through a refurbishment. De Weerd: I thought the refurbishing was supposed to be to the mechanical piece of it. Esthetically? Niemeyer: It was cabinetry. It was updating it to the current safety standards. We didn't change the motor on that engine or the transmission. Zaremba: Thank you. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Refurbish to me would have been the engine and the transmission, not the pretty stuff. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: Chief, I do want to say one thing here. When we get the new ones in on replacements, the ones that we are replacing, I do not want them donated again. Let's -- let's sell them. There is people out there that will buy them and we -- it's nice to be big hearted and everything, but our taxpayers are tired of being big hearted. Niemeyer: And that's part of the document we have put together. We have taken a look at what could the resale value be in our current state. In fact, Chief Lavey leaned back there a while ago and asked so what -- with the age that we have on some of these what can you get out of them and the market value right now on most of them is about 30,000 dollars, which if you consider that initial investment it's not a lot. There is a very fine line in proper fleet management that says if you hit this point this is your best resale value after you have reached a certain maintenance to depreciation -- or maintenance to acquisition ratio. Many fleet managers use that as a time to get rid of apparatus. Ours costs a little City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 45 of 76 bit more than most, but that is a tool to use. But, absolutely, there is still some value in these -- in these apparatus, so resale is a possibility. De Weerd: Thirty thousand is thirty thousand. That's a lot of money. Bird: That's right. It would buy one of your command vehicles. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for chief pertaining to the budget? Niemeyer: Thanks. De Weerd: Okay. So, any other questions on replacements? If not we will launch into the enhancement section. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: I wait until you make the transition and, then, I bring up a question. It might be related to replacements. It's related to this discussion and it's -- it may be a solution of one way to address it, so there is some consistent funding applied to this particular problem in the capital improvement plan. If I'm reading the figures provided to us correctly and the anticipated revenue, I would throw out an idea that I have not discussed with the chief or anybody in particular, but trying to allocate a percentage within our budget each year towards a public safety fund. For example. If there is 35 million dollars in anticipated revenue for this next fiscal year, which is the figure in front of us, to allocate one percent a year as we build the budget each year off the top -- sort of like we do with replacements each year -- peel that off, you peel off a one percent annual figure, about 350,000 dollars, to earmark and designate into a public safety fund, which on a particular year we might speak to it being intended for fire, it might be intended for something else, but -- so, we start this process each year shaving that allocation off, which we know we have to make, and kind of bypass some of this discussion that we have all accepted, either expenditures that we need and the fire truck replacement schedule over the next ten years, whether it's one truck or four trucks, it's -- they are big numbers. Councilman Rountree is a hundred percent correct that somehow I think that type of solution works versus trying to rely on -- on unknown savings. Let's put it in there. If we put it in there this year we would add a line item of 350,000 dollars for funding, so to speak, the public safety fund. If that creates an additional area where we may need to cut or if it's the Council's prerogative to apply even more of the unrestricted fund balance towards that designation, we could do either. I mean the balance -- the budget right now -- we are already spending two million dollars -- or potentially two million dollars more that we are bringing. And which is normal -- you know, can occur in the normal course of events over the years. But that's what I feel most comfortable with. Again, funding it with a set amount. That percentage seems to be within the wheelhouse of being able to cover those expenses and kind of soften the edges of -- of when they come up that we have -- we have got funds available to do it. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 46 of 76 Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, the only thing when you do a policy I would be cautious about walking into it, like saying every single year we are going to do X, just because you might get to a point where you don't need that much money yet, so there would be some evaluation process in there. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Well -- and I think, too, that Council might have a public safety expenditure that they could say instead of the one percent going into that, it would be dedicated towards this -- this enhancement. So, there would be some flexibility. Kilchenmann: There are other things, too, we could spend it on, like police cars or equipment. De Weerd: But there is around 400,000 in police cars. Kilchenmann: Yes. Borton: Madam Mayor, just to that point, the intent at least in initiating something like that is that it's not flexible. I mean it always is; right? Technically. Right? The Council can change the policy and we will all be gone and there will be new council and mayor and somebody that can change or we can change. But the intent is it's truly a commitment at least for the foreseeable future that we would try and build a budget knowing good and well that expenditure is there and not set something like that up this year with the idea that, well, we can probably change it and get rid of it next year. While that technically might be true, the hope is that we remain consistent with it and as it gets built up those funds will be expended on those public safety expenditures that we have all planned for years prior. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, when I think about it, you're right, we will never run out of things to spend it on. Bird: No, we will find things to spend it on. Kilchenmann: Uh-huh. Bird: Guaranteed. Borton: Madam Mayor? To that point the way I characterized how that concept could be done, I don't know if that was accurate or not in how it would be displayed and what's in front of us on the screen, is it the addition of a line item under -- under what? Just so we can see the impact on trying to make this thing balance. Kilchenmann: Oh, you mean right now? Borton: Correct. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 47 of 76 Kilchenmann: Todd will just flip out his magic fingers and make it happen. Borton: We are seeing Finance at work. Rountree: So much for magic fingers. Lavoie: It takes a little longer, uh. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: While the math is going on, I would like to repeat my thought of what the public safety fund is. Automatically everybody thinks Police and Fire. I have always considered parks, both the open space and the recreation activities to be part of our public safety as well and people have heard me say my experience of living other places, I felt that cities that didn't put enough into parks and creation weren't saving money, because they ended up putting more into police and jails. So, there is correlation there and I would just like to put into the general psyche that when we talk about a public safety fund that Parks has access to this as well. De Weerd: I would hate to disagree with you, but I do believe build parks, not prisons, but I think this -- the history of this city has always had the safety aspect first, because if you are not a safe city you're not going to have safe parks or safe neighborhood or an attractive business community. That doesn't mean that it takes away from parks as an investment, but it is public safety first. Kilchenmann: And, Madam Mayor, for Parks we also have the capital improvement plan -- planning, that fund, and we have impact fees. So, impact fees really help them develop parks, then, we got to go back and pick up the operating as is the devil in everything else, but -- De Weerd: But, Stacy, I guess that brings up a question. Why wouldn't park design -- 750,000 dollars for designing the 77 acre park, why isn't that impact fee eligible? Kilchenmann: Believe it is -- it is impact fees. De Weerd: Is it? Kilchenmann: Is it not, Todd? Rountree: Madam Mayor -- and I'm just going to throw this out to implement the words that if we are going to do this we are going to have to cut what we have. So, I'm going to offer up the first 215,000 dollars to implement funding that. Now, everybody is going to hurt a little bit, nothing is necessarily entirely mission critical and I'm going to say -- but it's City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 48 of 76 going to offend some of you, but I'm just throwing it out that this is the kind of stuff we have to do. So, sitting here with -- and I have a totally different screen than what you all are looking at. I have Todd's -- De Weerd: No, we are looking at it now. Rountree: Well, yeah, okay. All right. But I can move mine up and down and you can't. De Weerd: Okay. Rountree: So, anyway -- De Weerd: I agree. Rountree: So, here you go. And this is from folks that haven't even been up before us yet. Out of Parks, 125,000 dollars to replace the lighting on Cox's field. Now, I know it's bad, but it's still there. Although the program's growing, it will continue to grow, it can happen, it can happen in the next year, maybe it can happen within the next year or it can happen with some volunteers, whatever. Fifty-five thousand dollars for an assistant city clerk that runs the passport program. Now, I know that's a great service to our constituents, but it's also a great service to Ada county and I'm not sure that all of the city taxpayers need to support that program for all of Ada county and Canyon county, by the way. And out of Fire, don't implement half the AED program. Cut that 35,000 dollars, plus or minus a few thousand. That's 215,000 dollars. Whether anybody is going to be -- their mission is going to be critically impacted -- granted, the softball program is going to be slighted a little bit, some of the AED sites are not going to be fulfilled, but we don't have to do everything at once and we haven't done that program all at once anyway. And the passport -- that really and truly is of benefit to our citizens, but it's not necessarily that the City of Meridian has to take on that expense, because that program is not paying for itself. So, that's the kind of things we got to talk about. I don't know if we want to do that or not. I'm not asking you to do it. Just as an example. We got to do it if we are going to walk the talk. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Rountree. I do think that with the passport program one of the things that kind of fell off that discussion is if we want to discontinue the passport program city clerks still needs a person and, then, that person is not funded. So, if you remove the passports, then, you need to add -- add a cost, because the revenue is offset, now you will change revenue coming in and expense will go up. So, you're not going to save anything there. I just want to make sure you -- you know that. That will more add to the cost than save it. That's what I understand. Is that correct? Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'm not suggesting that, I'm playing with the numbers I got before me. De Weerd: I know and -- and I know that and it doesn't say that in the number, but I just wanted to remind -- and maybe Jaycee can -- City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 49 of 76 Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, while Jaycee responds I will look up and see how much I actually budgeted for it in revenue. It wasn't very much. Holman: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, yes, exactly. That was my only point is we would lose that offsetting revenue also, but we would reallocate that position to fill the needs that we need for the natural growth of our other areas and also to note Ada county does not do passports anymore. So, the other option here -- if we stop doing it here, the other option is down at Boise State or out in Canyon county and I think there might be one somewhere out in Emmett or someplace like that. So, I just wanted to make sure you knew that there is not an option in Ada county. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Councilman Rountree, I'm not in favor of cutting the passport position to find something else to cut. Rountree: I didn't suggest that. I said this is the kind of thing we have to do. De Weerd: No one was taking it serious. Rountree: That's the seriousness of doing this, though. Whatever we do is going to create some kind push back. The bottom line is we got to do it, but we need to have the conversation and I -- and I don't disagree with you. It's a great resource for people who travel. Even going to Canada. I mean -- Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: So, I guess my point is is it's not just about this position -- Rountree: No. De Weerd: If you did away with the passports we have a position that's in place that, then, would fill in for the needs of the clerk and now you need to fund it, because currently it's offset. So, that was only my point. Holman: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Holman: Stacy just let me know that she budgeted 50,000 dollars in revenue against that position for next year. Kilchenmann: Fifty thousand in for your whole department. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 50 of 76 Holman: So, you would only be -- Kilchenmann: I didn't offset the whole position with revenue, I just budgeted 50,000 passport revenue. Rountree: So, there is a savings there. Borton: Madam Mayor? Oh. De Weerd: I think, though, you're still not considering that 50,000 pays for a current position and we have this new position request. Right? Okay. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: We can save a couple hundred thousand if we go back and if -- Bill, am I not right is the fire contract not a two percent raise this year? Nary: Yes. Bird: And the reason I'm saying this is because we have always treated one employee the same as the other employee. So, if you back a two percent raise throughout the city you save over 200,000 right there. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, then, you need to go back to the Enterprise Fund and reduce them, too. Bird: That's true. We can do that. Kilchenmann: I don't know if -- Patty, do you want to speak to what the -- what happens to the way our matrix is if there is two percent, because the Fire is two percent across the board and that means everyone in fire gets two percent. The merit pool is very different. So, it means some people will get zero percent -- so, as long as that's clear, that there is a big difference between the way that -- Bird: You're talking to somebody that don't believe in the merit thing, so you're not -- you're getting deaf ears here. Kilchenmann: Okay. Well, what you're, in essence, doing is the Fire will all get two percent and the people that are not in the STEP plan or the Fire plan will not get -- some of them will get zero percent, some of them will get one percent. Bird: Some of them will get four and five. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 51 of 76 Perkins: Stacy is correct. If we plug a two percent into the matrix for merit, that some will get -- and that's the way it works now with the three percent. It is -- two percent is very tough to differentiate a superior performer from a satisfactory performer on, but there is a couple of ways that we could work with that. We could either do a flat increase to everybody at two percent and that way you have exactly what your two percent is and that really is, essentially, a COLA, a cost of living increase, or we could plug it into the matrix and we work with varying levels of percent, hopefully to average out at two percent. So, it depends on how we -- how we work with that. De Weerd: Well, do we want to go through enhancement by enhancement and, then, have these overall discussions? So -- or do you want to -- Rountree: Let's go through this, but we got to roll up our sleeves at some point after this. De Weerd: You do. Rountree: Yeah. De Weerd: I know that Todd has ordered lunch. We thought we would do a working lunch. So, whenever it gets here we will take a quick -- oh. Want to take a quick break, grab a plat and, then, come back and roll up your sleeves and get to work. Okay. Okay. We will break, then, for 20 minutes to get your feed on and, then, we will -- you can eat and work at the same time. (Recess: 11:46 a.m. to 12:04 p.m.) De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and start our workshop and ask Steve if he would kick us off with comments about his budget, some of the changes that have -- have happened since we last met. Siddoway: I come bearing potential solutions. Hopefully some good news and some proposed cuts that will help save some money, so -- and help to cover the -- part of the discussion that's been going on. So, the first one is related to our Five Mile Pathway connections project enhancement and the good news there is a portion of this project -- in fact, can we bring up the dot cam? So, this was the slide that was presented at the last budget meeting and it lays out the different sections that we are planning to do with this enhancement. Now, one of those is what was called Segment H and that's really the extension of the piece that we have recently done from Pine down to Badley that we want to get connected from Badley to Fairview. City Council in the last month has approved some CDBG funding for that specific segment, so there is about 80,000 dollars of this enhancement that I would propose that we cut, because it will be covered through the CDBG budget that will come to us in next calendar year. So, there is a proposed 80,000 dollar reduction from that enhancement. De Weerd: Well, Steve, while you're talking about that, I would just mention to Council that -- Charlie and I talked -- Councilman Rountree and I talked about it on Friday is right City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 52 of 76 now the Ada County Highway District commission is working at -- in follow up to questions we have asked during our last meeting with them, as well as dusted off an old plan from the Urban Land Institute that recommended that the commission consider a percentage or some designated amount from your transportation dollars be allocated to the cities to prioritize where those dollars should go. Our city has communicated an interest in streetlighting, connected sidewalks, and pathways, which most cities use transportation dollars for and so they are looking at a designated amount. Right now they are seeking feedback to a proposal that Commissioner Woods is putting together, so I'm hoping that at some point we are not looking at General Fund dollars to do some highly desired improvements in our community from our citizens in terms of alternative forms of our transportation that those transportation dollars should really be used for and -- rather than our General Fund. Siddoway: Sure. De Weerd: So, I just wanted to note you that those conversations are going on and, hopefully, we will have some -- some say in how our transportation dollars are used in our community. Siddoway: Madam Mayor, along those lines, it's probably worth noting that the majority of our pathways in the city are still built through the development process by developers and not even hitting our -- our budgets and that's one of the reasons why we have been cognizant and thoughtful about the idea that, you know, the pathways are not currently impact fee eligible, because we get new development to pay for new pathways. We are only using city budget to build connections within existing parts of town. To charge impact fees and, then, to also require them through the development process would be double dipping. So, I think we get a better bang for our buck for pathway development with the process we have going by having development construct those new pathways as we grow and using the city's General Fund to -- and CDBG funds where ever we can and those things to build the pathways in the existing parts of town and making those connections. So, what's the next proposed cut? Item 3-B is the field house operations. Now, there is an A and a B. There is a -- the balance of the -- the four million dollars we have been talking about for years for a -- the field house funding. We still would like to get the capital approved in this fiscal year. However, we cannot currently envision a scenario where we would need to make tenant improvements or do operational expenses in FY-16. So, the operational enhancement of 283,210, which is this one that was -- oh. Well, he got it up. It's okay, you can leave it up here. The 283,210 we would propose could be cut from the FY-16 budget, as long as we -- and we would propose to just keep the capital portion of the field house. So, between those two, 283 and, then, another 80, that's 360,000 dollars that we are cutting right there. It could fully fund the 350 that was just talked about or I guess I would hope, maybe, that a portion of that could go towards the capital improvement fund, if there is to be any donation to that that could be used in future park projects. But there is -- there is some cuts. De Weerd: Steve, can you also talk about the -- the lights? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 53 of 76 Siddoway: That's where I'm going next. De Weerd: Okay. Siddoway: So, the next one I want to talk about is the Cox field lighting. That one was not a big surprise that it would come up. It was brought up during the last month's discussions when we were challenged to go and look at what some options were. So, let me just talk a little bit about the -- the basics, again, of the problem we are trying to solve and, then, different options. So, if you can pull the -- this back up again. There we go. Okay. So, the sports lighting at Harold Cox Field in Storey Park, there was some discussion last time about when was it built. I want to tell you we did go out in the field and looked at stickers on the actual poles for the year they were installed which was 1998. So, that's the year that they were -- they were put in. Seventeen years ago. So, replacement cost that we have in the budget today is 125,000. So, what are the options -- or, first of all, what are we trying to solve. So, this is maybe -- well, those numbers are too small to read, but the numbers on there represent foot candle readings a different parts in a baseball field. This is a typical that would meet the American -- the Amateur Softball Association standards of 50 foot candles on the infield and 30 average on the outfield. What -- we have done a look at what we have and, again, I know the numbers are kind of small, so I will just tell you we have an average in our infield of about 22, as opposed to the 50, and, then, the outfield we have got about 12 and a half, as opposed to the 30 and in this area right here there is a lot of single digit numbers you can see that are six, sevens, you know, foot candles that are very low. So, we are getting complaints that the lighting conditions are low and poor and we would like to improve that. The full meal deal option, which we thought was too much to even propose, was raising the poles and putting them in the currently proper location based on design standards and that option was about 275,000 dollars. We didn't even want to go there, because we knew how well that would fly. But we decided to look at -- the option that's before you at 125 is let's keep the existing poles at the existing height in the existing locations and replace the banks of lights out with new and more efficient LED lights. One option could be less than that. If we -- if we stick with the metal halide lights, the difference between the metal halide and the LED is about 30,000. So, we can go from 125 down to 95, still replace all the banks of lights and get new fixtures that are up and get a good quality system. I think that at 95,000 we could do that. That's a savings of 30,000 over even what was proposed. We looked also -- you know, what if we keep the existing that are out there and only replace the ballasts and the bulbs. You know, we could do that somewhere in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar range. The problem is we don't -- we don't think we are going to get that big of a bump. They can't guarantee lighting levels for us with just a replacement of ballasts and bulbs. So, don't -- I'm not feeling confident in that solution that it's going to give us enough of a bump to know that we have made a significant improvement. Now, if we -- if we are comfortable with a -- you know, a slight improvement, knowing that we will have a slight improvement over what's there over -- you know, at least the next years, then, the 30 to 40 thousand dollars could get us there. Ninety thousand dollars could get us new banks of lights of the type that are out there, but the newer models and have the cost savings over the LED type lighting. So -- and there is the do nothing alternative, I guess, which we feel that something needs to be done, because we are just seeing those City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 54 of 76 low light levels as a -- as a problem. But I guess for discussion there are some different alternatives to talk about. De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Council, any questions? Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Madam Mayor, if I understand it correctly, one of the advantages of going to LED lights is not only better lighting, but cheaper electric costs -- cheaper operating costs down the line. I know we could save something by not putting LEDs in, but do we cancel a savings that we would get following up? Siddoway: That's a great question. That is why, you know, we were interested in LEDs. I may invite Garrett up, but he's talked with the lighting reps -- with one field of lights we don't think the return on investment -- we are not going to get 30,000 dollars worth of savings on electrical bills over ten years, so -- I don't think we would even get remotely close to that. So, there is not -- there is not a matching return on investment from going from metal halide to LED, though there is a savings. They use less electricity, which is why we were initially drawn to them. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Steve, you say for 90,000 we put new fixtures and new ballasts and new lighting? Siddoway: Yes. Bird: New bulbs. Well, what's the difference of doing just the existing fixtures -- putting new lights in? Is the fixtures -- is the fixtures part of the problem of the reason you're not getting the light out there? Siddoway: That it is my understanding. It's the lighting. It's the design. Garrett, maybe invite you up and maybe address that question. White: Madam Mayor and Councilman Bird, so the existing lights we have up there have the big -- let's say cones -- Bird: Yes. White: -- type lights. Well, those lights go up, down, sideway, all over. Bird: It's not focused. White: Not focused in. Exactly right. So, we are losing a lot of light everywhere else. The new upgraded type of fixtures that I would like to put in there with the budget we have would be the ones that are -- I would say more advanced, for lack of better words. They City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 55 of 76 have different reflecting shields to focus light more in certain areas and control the light better. If that makes sense. Bird: Okay. It makes sense to me. Yes. Understand. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Garrett, we appreciate your creative approach to this for -- I guess talk to me about what improvements really we make if we cut this down. I mean if we -- if we go to a different type of bulb, if we go to a different type of fixture, what type of improvement on this lighting grid are we really going to see and where is that point where spending money makes the most sense I guess is ultimately what I'm trying to get at. White: Sure. Councilman Cavener, to answer that question I think what we are trying to do is get more closer to the light levels that are kind of a national standard. Right now we are getting about 35 to 40 percent of the light that we currently have. Like Steve mentioned before in the infield we are supposed to have approximately or an average of 50 foot candles. We are right now at just below 22. So, in getting new fixtures in bringing those light levels up to where when you're playing -- I mean it's just -- it's just -- it allows the player to see the ball a lot better. It just improves the lighting situation for different things. I hope that answers your question. Cavener: Maybe a follow up if I can, Madam Mayor. So, Steve proposed a -- you know, a smaller version, right around the 90,000 dollar mark. Where does that get us then -- how close does that get us to that 50 foot candle -- White: Sure. And according to the light -- because I talked with them. They said they can get extremely close to the 50 foot candle with that. Because the light height -- the height right now they are currently about 45 feet tall, all of six of them that are there. Four of the six are supposed to be at 60 feet. Two of the six are supposed to be at 70 feet. So, that's how short they are and how low they are. So, the light manufacturer I just happened to talk to was Musgrove Lighting and I spoke to them about have you done fields similar to this with the same pole height and things like that and they said they have and they came extremely close to the 50 foot candles in the front and in the infield. Same as -- and 30 foot in the outfield. Cavener: Madam Mayor, one more follow up. Garrett, did you talk to any other lighting folks or did you just speak to Musgrove directly? White: I have talked with Musgrove directly and I also spoke with a local group Bright Ideas here in town, talked with them, and he feels the same way with these lights, they can get extremely close with that, so to answer your question, yes, I have talked to two different lighting groups. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 56 of 76 Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: So, based on what you have been telling us about the lighting and that we don't have enough and they are not lit right, this has been a problem since they were installed, this isn't because of the age of them; right? White: Council Woman Milam, I believe it is the age of them. Right now they were put in in '98. They are about 17 years old. So, they are getting towards the end of the life span to keep adequate lights needed for the game of softball today. Milam: Okay. But the -- sorry. But I was under the impression we just didn't have -- they weren't the right height or we didn't have the right quantity, which has nothing to do with the age of them. White: So, it's kind of a mixture of everything. There is -- the light pole should be taller. They should be. Rountree: Excuse me. Excuse me. Get you off the hot seat there. I'm going to give you a little history. And this goes back -- way back in time. But the lighting on that field was donated Harold Cox, previous city clerk, and it was installed by his contractor and it was installed and put in based on the standards at the time. It wasn't -- it wasn't an initiative on the part of the city. So, we inherited that by virtue of a donation. Supposedly, then, it met standards and I understand that it's worn out. But that's the history. It wasn't something the city did and did inappropriately, it was done appropriately at the time, but by someone else. Milam: Okay. Thank you. Rountree: Sometimes history helps. I don't know. Milam: Yes. Definitely. Thank you. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Well, I mean in the history of that and the donation, it's met its lifespan, too. Milam: Right. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Steve, I think this is an awful nice offer back. It's 390 some thousand dollars. Let's see if these other departments can come in and give us back some money, too. But I appreciate this. I think -- I think the 90,000, while it won't be first class, it will be very sufficient. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 57 of 76 White: It will be good. Bird: And it will be so much better than it is tonight -- or now that they will think they are playing in the light -- you know, they think they are playing in the daylight. Siddoway: Any other questions for us right now? Rountree: No. Madam Mayor, just a comment that it's kind of neat that just bringing up a topic can result in that kind of budget savings and, again, I don't think anything you're attempting to do is going to be compromised and I do appreciate you coming forward with -- with the remainder of that information. It certainly helps not only to put some money back into the capital improvement fund, but to get some money into that fund for public safety and I think that's all of our goals and I appreciate that, Steve and Garrett. And I didn't mean to bring up your lights to -- but it just was dangling there. Siddoway: Yeah. All right. Thank you. De Weerd: And I will tell that you Steve had come ready with that -- that he would have offered it whether you said anything or not. So, appreciate that. Anything from any of our other directors? Is there -- Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Kilchenmann: Luke had an idea. De Weerd: He did? Kilchenmann: He did. De Weerd: Good job. Cavener: She didn't say it was a good idea. Kilchenmann: We have all these counter top do hickeys in here, so we actually -- we decided not to do the emergency lighting. We still have that money in the City Hall capital -- budget capital, so we would have to move it to operating, but it's -- the remediation -- that better not be -- Bird: You just made the papers. Kilchenmann: But from the remediation budget that we could use and it won't save a ton of money, but we could take those little odds and ends out for that. Does that make sense? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 58 of 76 Rountree: Be more specific. Kilchenmann: So, you know how we have all these -- there up on the screen we have all the table tops -- table tops -- counter top modifications, so we have money in -- now in City Hall capital improvements left over from the remediation -- what we call remediation. Bird: Oh. Okay. Kilchenmann: And we have -- you were going to do the generator -- the emergency generator and you decided not to do it, so we could take these -- these counter top things out and do them out of the existing budget. Bird: That's, what, 15,000? Kilchenmann: He will add them up. Bird: Oh. I see. Okay. Kilchenmann: Forty thousand. Cavener: Madam Mayor, question for Stacy. I know it's not here on the City Hall, but I know PD has got a counter top as well. Can that be covered as well or does that have to -- because it's on City Hall -- Kilchenmann: Councilman Cavener, I think we already did that, so they said they were going to have some money left over in their capital budget, so we took out -- Jeff might need to help me out here. Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, completely different counter tops. This is a stainless steel counter top for evidence processing, so it's completely different. But it's already covered under the existing contract, so it's a mute point. It's already paid for. De Weerd: Oh, that was your contribution, uh? We thought you were going to get up like Steve did and say, Council, I have all these different ideas of savings. Lavey: Madam Mayor, that was 115,000 dollars. That's only one part of it that we are discussing right now. Bird: What's Fire donating? Kilchenmann: Look at Fire and you will see there is not a lot to donate. De Weerd: You're going to start getting like the kids when they come with ten requests and one kid comes with ten requests and they withdraw two and the other one comes with City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 59 of 76 two and you expect him to withdraw one. I think, you know, when -- so, I don't need to say anymore. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: To the point Stacy made as to Luke's suggestion, that makes perfect sense to me. I don't see a reason why you wouldn't do that. Bird: Take it out. De Weerd: Okay. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: I had a question for Steve on the full-time fabricator and design specialist position. For Steve. Maybe for Finance as well. The enhancement request makes reference to cost savings, taking it part time to full time in expenditures for outsourcing that type of work. Is that a forecast of what those savings would be or are there actually expenditures that we are incurring now to supplement our part time fabricator that we are no longer going to be spending? Siddoway: So, what you're asking is where does the projected savings come from? Borton: Yes. Is it actual savings meaning we are doing the work of full time now? Siddoway: Can you put this back up for me, please? Borton: I believe it was enhancement number -- priority number five. Siddoway: Yeah. Borton: The numbers are there. I just didn't know if it was actual or forecasted. Siddoway: So, it's based on -- we went back to a year's worth of projects and they are listed here and we tried to input a dollar value to them with both shop materials for what it costs us and, then, what the cost would be if we were to -- to contract that out. So, what we are anticipating is that with the typical number of projects that we do in a year with that shop that there would be a slight savings doing it in house ourselves with our own equipment on our own terms than -- even if a fully loaded scenario. And just so you know, we did -- the first time we calculated that we just put the -- the enhancement number in that, which was just half the salary, but we did go -- the enhancement that you have has the -- should be based on the full salary, not just the additional half. So -- am I City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 60 of 76 complicating it? Basically, we looked at the -- the salary versus the -- the types of projects we would be doing and compared that to contracting them out. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Uh-huh. Borton: So, there is -- there would be a reduction somewhere reflected in the expenditures of contracted fabricating that if this position is approved -- does that make sense? Right? So, for example, we would -- if this isn't approved we are going to spend next year 50,000 dollars on outsourced fabricating and if it is approved we are not going to spend that. Siddoway: And I'm going to call Roger up for some help, but the answer is no. We are not -- there is not a budget we have been using to contract those out. We have been pulling in other staff to make up the difference when our part-time fabricator has not been available. Borton: Okay. That answers it. Thank you. Siddoway: Any other questions? Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Shall we go -- do you want to start at the top, Todd, with the enhancements and -- so, you're able to take the counter -- the counter work out; correct? Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Are we still talking replacements? De Weerd: Oh. Sure. Cavener: Chief, can you -- sorry. De Weerd: Which chief? Cavener: Yeah. Sorry. I realize they are both sitting over there. Jeff, can you talk to me a little bit about the gym of -- the fitness training equipment that you said you are replacing that's 13 years old. Is that something else that's also part of the training facility? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, no, it's not. That is the original equipment that was replaced in the -- it was purchased in the building in 2001 and, then, when we did the remodel we actually had eliminated the fitness room and expanded into that area and so in return we got rid of the equipment that was no longer serviceable, so we currently do City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 61 of 76 not have -- we only have half of what had before and so that enhancement is to get us back to the original that we had under our 2001 standards. So, it will be placed in a different portion of the building. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: So, Stacy, on the Fire Department, can their cubicle modification be included in that as well? Kilchenmann: Oh, yes. Milam: Thank you. Kilchenmann: Forgot about them -- and, then, I'm going to add a suite, we didn't include them. De Weerd: Can't take her anywhere. Okay. If we are done with replacements, what's -- are we? What -- we will start with the enhancements. Anything for Clerk or City Hall now that as Todd begins to back all of that out? He did. Borton: Madam Mayor, is line 149 also an item to back out? Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, that is a computer, so the question is we do have some computers and we need to apply for the countertops I think. Kilchenmann: Yeah. We usually don't -- Lavoie: So, I think it's best -- I think it's in the best interest we keep that in there as a computer acquisition cost separate of the computer -- or the infrastructure development. De Weerd: I guess you have moved from Clerk, City Hall. There is nothing in Finance. HR. Any questions in that regard? Did you want to have conversation at this point -- I know it's not an enhancement, but on the merit? Need any additional information from Patty? I know -- I could have Mr. Nary talk to you about the difference between the three percent that's -- that's being proposed as part of the -- or as part of this budget versus the contract negotiations with the firefighters and why they are at the two percent. They have different benefits than our regular employees and that cost difference was contemplated in that increased difference. Any questions about that? Okay. In IT -- any questions in I T? You have the Mayor's Office. And Other Government. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 62 of 76 Rountree: Was that first item funded or is that anticipated funding? De Weerd: The first item? The public art? Rountree: Public art. De Weerd: It is funded. Rountree: Okay. That's what I thought. De Weerd: But I think they believe that the expenditure would not be until October. Rountree: October. Okay. De Weerd: I think they have already done the transfer? Kilchenmann: No. De Weerd: It seems like we sent a budget amendment on the 40,000 excepting the money from the Urban Renewal District. Kilchenmann: We did a budget amendment for the spending authority, but we haven't gotten any money from them. De Weerd: So, do we need it in this or -- Kilchenmann: No. We have it offset by revenue in here. Put zero zero. It's a zero. De Weerd: I just wanted to -- Kilchenmann: Oh, I see what you mean. Why do we have -- De Weerd: Why is it in this year -- Kilchenmann: Right. De Weerd: Next year's budget. Kilchenmann: Because if we didn't have it in here we would probably just carry it forward, so this way we have the revenue in here. I'm not sure why they did the -- why they did the amendment. I'm not the art person. I could get the art person. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 63 of 76 Milam: I will try to help a little bit on this. I'm pretty sure the -- so, they are working on getting the art installed and MDC isn't going to pay until the installation is complete, yet we had to do a budget amendment for spending authority, so they could -- I guess have the money when they needed it to pay the artist or if they had to pay a down payment up front and that part I'm a little unclear. De Weerd: Well, will the project be done by the end of this budget year? Milam: I don't remember. De Weerd: I know the open public comment period was through the end of July and -- Milam: It seems like they are hoping to have it -- we have to have it done before October. Bird: I thought it was -- Rountree: We haven't seen anything on the selection, so -- De Weerd: The comment period is open until next week. Rountree: Next week. Kilchenmann: We will get Hillary to provide detail. But effect on the budget now is zero, because -- De Weerd: And I understand that, but if it doesn't need to be at least even referenced -- Kilchenmann: We don't need it in there twice. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions under Other Government? Streetlights. Okay. Rountree: The only question I have on that is not budget and maybe it's not appropriate to ask Tom, but have we heard from ACHD on our letter? Barry: We have. Rountree: Okay. That's good. De Weerd: No, we haven't. Rountree: Okay. De Weerd: Okay. We will move to Fire then. Chief, I know part of the -- the opening up of discussion was looking at the AED program and seeing if we could fund half this year and, then, come back and the next budget year to conclude the program or would this conclude the program? This is -- what is the long term plan here? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 64 of 76 Niemeyer: Yes. Madam Mayor and Council, when we first brought this program there was 64 AEDs needed to complete the entire program and that included putting all the AEDs on the patrol cars. When we originally presented that we cut the AEDs in half and were asked to bring that back the following year, which is this conversation. So, the 32 AEDs currently in this cost is to finish the project with the patrol cars. That being said, if we are trying to find funding to put in the capital replacement and long term plan, we can spread that out over the next two years if needed. If we look at priorities of replacing critical infrastructure and apparatus at the cost of a new program, we understand that as well. Still a very successful program. It's the right thing to do for our community, but if we need to cut this request in half we can do that as well, if that means taking those funds and putting them into a savings account or what we are trying to accomplish here. Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I would like to add to that. We don't -- the Police Department is really supportive of the AED program. We think it's a great thing and we would like to see it funded. We don't see it as mission critical as to some of the other things and in less than one year's time we went from zero to 12 AEDs in a patrol car. We don't need to jump up to 24 in the next year, We are willing to forego adding those 12 in the patrol cars, because we have 12 out there in the field at this time. So, I don't know what those figured out to, but it's a little over 15,000 dollars or something, so -- I mean we are supportive, we would like to see them there, but if you ask me is it mission critical, no. Is it something that we as a city are trying to achieve as to make our city healthier and safer, then, it definitely does that. De Weerd: So, chief, they are portable. Do they have to be assigned to one car or can't they just be in any of the cars? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, they are now. We actually transfer them from car to car. We actually -- they are assigned to a particular car, but if we need one you just grab one out now. So, that's exactly how we would do it. De Weerd: So, how many cars do you have out at any one time? Lavey: It depends on the shift schedule. Anywheres from six to 20. De Weerd: So, you have 12 now. What would eight cost, Chief Niemeyer? Niemeyer: Roughly -- I'm going to take a stab. About 9,500 dollars. I believe they are about 1,200 dollars apiece. De Weerd: And what is the remaining of the program? Were all the AEDs that you were requesting to go into patrol cars? Niemeyer: Also to finish out a few of the parks -- the parks needs as well. De Weerd: And how many would complete that? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 65 of 76 Niemeyer: I would have to come back with that number. De Weerd: Okay. Come back with that number. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mark, on your salary adjustments with the division chiefs, would you explain that to me? Is it changing job description or what? Niemeyer: Councilman Bird, this was -- this was a part of a market adjustment. Three years ago the -- or two years ago the city started undertaking a project to look at market adjustments. The Fire Department the last two years did not participate in that. The first year was the city employees. Last year was the police department. We have been working with HR for the last two years on evaluating market value for those specific ranks. So, that is what this request represents. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Your questions on the AED program in light of what we have heard, if reducing that figure to 33,000, cutting it in half, still allows the acquisition of enough devices to insure that every patrol car on duty, up to 20 perhaps, will have them in their units, that seems like that is a feasible way to split that expenditure? Am I saying that -- an accurate break of the figure? Niemeyer: Councilman Borton, yes. And to follow up -- the beauty of technology and text messaging. Parks needs five AEDs to finish out the parks program. This request also did include, as you recall, two of those pedestals that would make the AEDs in the parks -- and are looking at Kleiner Park and I believe Settlers, Steve? To make those readily accessible to the public 24/7. That is a cost if we are not ready to move on that, that is something to consider as well. Currently right now at the parks those AEDs are within the -- help me out -- concession stands, so they are only available when an event is going on. So, the request for the AEDs did include two of those pedestals that are 24/7 accessible. De Weerd: And those pedestals also include an anti-theft type of -- Niemeyer: They do. It's an anti-theft. It has a direct connection to 911, so when the button is pushed the VAD cabinet unlocks, you can get the AED and, then, you have direct access to a 911 operator. Bird: Madam Mayor? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 66 of 76 De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird. Bird: Okay. For this 57 -- how many -- how many of the units is that, Mark, total then? Niemeyer: I believe -- I'd have to go back to the request. I believe it was 32 to finish out the entire program. There was 64 originally planned based on all of the city needs. That's Water, Wastewater, Parks, Fire Department, Police Department. De Weerd: So, that's 25 to the Police Department and five to the Parks Department. And, then, the two notification towers. It would be in addition to that. Bird: I -- let's see if we can't get 60, 70 thousand out somewhere else. I think this is a very important program in my -- in my eyes, especially to have them in the parks. Patrol cars I guess are taken care of. We could take care of them and I would like to see them in our wastewater and water facilities if possible. De Weerd: And they are. Chief, if you could cost out the -- the parks, the towers, and eight more for the police department, so they have a total of 20, can you bring back the cost to that? Niemeyer: I can. De Weerd: Okay. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, we have determined -- the art department over here determined we do need to leave that -- that enhancement in there. We haven't done an amendment for it, so it's anticipated not to be spent until FY-2016. De Weerd: Thank you to the art department under the cloak of Finance. Okay. Okay. We are in Parks. We have had considerable conversation about Parks. If you would like to go through it and have additional discussion. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: It appears that Parks number three -- Parks number three needs to be removed. De Weerd: Three -- no. The other three. Borton: The other three. Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Parks number eight, reduces by 80,000 dollars, I believe. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 67 of 76 De Weerd: Yeah. They have it offset by 11. Borton: Over there. Okay. De Weerd: Yeah. Okay. Anything further in Parks? Okay. Let's look at Police. Rountree: Madam Mayor, just a fun question for the chief. Do we get any kind of royalties for the use of your vehicles and your staff in advertising? Lavey: I'm not sure I know what you're getting at, so -- Rountree: Well, it was just an ad I saw -- an ad I saw on TV last night for our water park. Lavey: Oh. No. That was an off-duty thing, so there is no royalties there. Rountree: I figured -- De Weerd: Off duty in full uniform. Lavey: That was a community service thing. Rountree: That was a great -- it was a great ad. I enjoyed it. De Weerd: I think he enjoyed doing it. Rountree: He looked like he was enjoying it. Lavey: He was selected for that purpose. He was probably the only one that has that charisma to do that. Milam: Who did it? De Weerd: Stoy. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: It moves perhaps in another direction, but for what it's worth, the evidence presented on the -- not evidence. Explanation. Rountree: Sounds like a lawyer. Borton: God. On the evidence vault shelving, that appeared to be an enhancement which seemed worthy perhaps of reconsideration. I don't know if we can add it back in, but I thought that explanation, in light of the need, was compelling. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 68 of 76 De Weerd: Is it funded. Lavey: It's included. De Weerd: It's funded. Lavey: So, Madam Mayor, Council, just to -- I will probably forget which ones they are, but just so you're aware, the -- the evidence counter top -- the evidence shelving, some replacement perimeter cameras, which -- there is two other items that they are withdrawn on here, because they are -- because of the cost savings in the construction we were approximately 350,000 dollars in the black and we are using some of those construction monies to cover those expenses, instead of forwarding an enhancement for FY-16. So, they look like they are being cut and they are being cut out of the FY-16, but they are being funded other ways. Borton: Madam Mayor. That sounded like I was extremely persuasive when I asked for that and -- and it's done. Lavey: It's magic. That's the power you have. You got it just like that. Borton: Sorry I missed that. De Weerd: Okay. Anything further on that? Todd, do you want to show us where we are at? Slower, please. Bird: Are you going to give us some back again? Siddoway: Yeah. I got another 10,000 for you. Thanks to -- if you go up to the replacements, I think for the lights you only reduced them to 105. You can take another ten off. Thanks. De Weerd: We have always appreciated your integrity there, Steve. Lavoie: So, Madam Mayor, as you can see as it stands right now you're in the positive 534,611. I know the last item that we had discussed was the Fire Department AEDs, but you're in a positive at the moment without the AED consideration at the moment. De Weerd: Well, we do want the AED consideration, so it will get better then. Borton: Madam Mayor? Where is the -- the one percent? Did it move up to the top? I saw it at the bottom earlier. Kilchenmann: Okay. We will put it in there. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 69 of 76 Lavoie: I will go ahead and add it in there, Council Member Borton. It's going to be 350,000 dollars more the positive -- or the reduction, because it's going to be an automatic expense transfer, so taking it off 350, I will go ahead and a work on it right now. Borton: Wasn't it in there? You did all the -- Lavoie: It wasn't -- there was a misunderstanding over here in the arts department. Borton: Okay. Lavoie: We can get it in there. It's a 350,000 dollars -- Bird: Less. Lavoie: -- number. I will work on it for you. De Weerd: So --- which should make it to about 200,000 in the positive. Bird: A hundred and -- De Weerd: Well, after -- Bird: After you dig 350,000 out of that. Borton: Madam Mayor, as Todd is doing that -- and maybe to answer -- or at least comment on Stacy's question as far as us being in the positive or not in the positive, one of the considerations in looking at the budget as a whole -- turning back to Stacy's comment at the very start of today was -- you know, we did a balanced budget and there is different ways to look at that and it's one where the expenditures exceed the revenues that are brought in and it's a use of fund balance again, which happens in the normal course, but what's reflected to us on the bottom also shows the ending fund balance and in order to balance this budget, the percentage of the existing fund balance, which is utilized to make that occur and the percentages are going to change now, because we may be utilizing a little bit less. The 2.1 from fund balance looks like it's going to go to about 1.8 million, so another way to look at it is we are -- we are dipping into our savings beyond our available revenue to meet these needs, so -- De Weerd: But, Mr. Borton, I guess -- we have put together a capital improvement plan to, number one, work on setting our impact fees. Number two, show our community the -- the needs and how we were going about funding it. Borton: Right. De Weerd: The impact fees substantiate that, but we have always said we save and, then, we spend on those needs. You have to save somewhere and -- and that's why you put the capital improvement plan together. So, it is a portion of General Fund and a City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 70 of 76 portion of impact fees as prescribed by state law. So, I think if -- if we -- Council has -- has found a significant savings in the past and said we have to invest in our capital improvement plan. We -- and look for what those expenditures are in the future and I think that's really what you're doing. Borton: Madam Mayor? I don't disagree. I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't happen, all I'm making reference to when I looked at it is the burn rate of reserves and do we at some point, in light of what Finance has brought up, the near future expenditures from a fire station operation to rec center operations potential, to things like that that -- it may be just a cautionary awareness at least for me that utilizing 30 percent of the ending fund balance is not a sustainable burn rate and it fluctuates year to year. There was a graph that we have been provided, which -- that Finance sent around that talked about, you know, from year to year, how that ending fund reserve fluctuates, but the -- the tough decisions that we make here and Councilman Rountree brought up that we have to discuss, that -- you know, that figure on the bottom really illustrates the importance of making those -- these difficult decisions and choices. De Weerd: Agreed. And I appreciate you bringing that up. I think moving forward -- and I'm thrilled to have IT sitting in this room, because I think you have heard it referenced a couple of times today -- priority based budgeting. That's going to give a better tool to Council in knowing not only department performance, but program performance and how it fits within the budget priorities. Next step is also -- so, priority based budgeting project is -- it's high priority. I know IT is thrilled to hear that. The second piece to that is really looking at the capital improvement plan and making it fiscally constrained and that's going to be another important aspect over this coming year is making sure that there is accountability, so when you look at using fund balance you know exactly where you're going and why you're doing it and it makes complete sense. So, those are two things that we look forward to moving towards over this next year and continuing to make in a more deliberate conversation and discussion. Do you have numbers? Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, I do. Again, technology is great. So, going with the discussion, police need eight AEDs for their patrol cars. The new training center was slated for two and based on the numbers of people that are going to be going through that type of work, we would like to continue that and, then, the five for parks is 15 AEDs, plus the two pedestals that were discussed that were asked to stay in, so that new amount would be 45,455, so a reduction of 22,132 if we go that route. De Weerd: So, just about 200,000, uh? Kilchenmann: The Arts Department missed exactly what he said, but -- oh, wait. Not the whole arts. De Weerd: I think we need to get Finance back. Niemeyer: You want that number, Todd? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 71 of 76 Lavoie: I believe we are good. Borton: Madam Mayor? Is it worth the discussion, maybe a question for the chief on the -- back to the fleet coordinator position. Is that position so specific to police or in light of the number of vehicles and the variety we have citywide is it potential for a position like that to coordinate the fleet for all city vehicles? Lavey: Madam Mayor and Councilman Borton, that discussion has occurred numerous times over the -- the many many years in regards to servicing our own vehicles, outsourcing our own vehicles, in-house fleet coordinators, outsource fleet coordinators and so I'm not sure I can answer that specific question. I can just tell you that we currently have a sworn administrative sergeant that covers the patrol cars and the building needs. That's all he does. And we have increased our cars in our department many, many, many times and we are to the point where we have 77 cars assigned to the police department. This one person only does patrol cars right now. We are looking at a civilian position at a much cheaper rate that would coordinate all cars within the Police Department, but as far as this one person being able to do the entire city, I don't think that's possible. We are also not -- you know, if you're going to get into a fleet coordinator position we also look at software, fleet maintenance software, and do we have it ourselves or do we outsource it. We currently use an outsourcing facility that keeps track of all of our vehicle maintenance needs for that. So, this person is going to be in charge of procuring new vehicles, building new vehicles, and maintaining those new vehicles. I'm not sure one person is going to be able to handle that just for our needs, let alone the entire city. So, that concept is welcomed, we have discussed it many, many times. We are going to be in the position in the city that has to make that decision some day. I don't know when that time will be, but based upon our calculations work in Public Works, in Finance and some of the other departments, you know, looking at your return on investment, we are just not to that point yet. Borton: Okay. De Weerd: Are we missing something, Council? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Is it -- it seems to be the time also where we circle back and make the discussion on the recommendations concerning Council and Mayor compensation. De Weerd: Oh, yeah. Borton: Is that for now? De Weerd: I think so. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 72 of 76 Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: My recommendation is to keep the Council's pay as is and I have no problem with giving the Mayor the raise as recommended. Let the others jump in. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I agree with what Council Bird said. I would support keeping the Council pay the same, giving the Mayor the suggested raise or raises, but I would also like to add the additional for the president. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: I wasn't present for the original discussion, but I did watch the YouTube video, so I think I'm pretty well caught up. So, I mean, obviously, like was said, none of us are in this for the money, because, otherwise, we wouldn’t be here. So, that being said, to have a committee put in as much time and energy as they do and, then, not accept the recommendation that they give, is -- it's kind of like a slap in the face to some extent, so -- to them. And I -- you know, I don't know how they would feel about that or how that is, but there is a lot of people putting in a lot of time and energy and research and, then, we say, okay, well, thank you for that. Sorry, but we are not going to take it is kind of rude. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: I appreciate Council Woman Milam's comments. However, I think that that's what that group is tasked to do is to give us a recommendation and, then, it is our job to make that final decision. I think all six of us now with Councilman Milam voicing her appreciation for that group, I was very appreciative for their feedback and their insight and what has been of value is that we, as a body, have taken that input to heart and our upcoming with our own recommendation which we think is best. So, if I were on that group I would not take it as an insult. I have been very appreciative of their feedback. That said, I tend to agree with Councilman Zaremba in a no increase for Council Members, an increase for the Mayor and increase for Council President. I would be -- I think that's the right decision both for us as a Council and for our community. Bird: Let's hear from that side. Borton: Madam Mayor? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 73 of 76 De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: I agree. With regard to the recommendation for the Mayor's compensation and acknowledging the role of Council President. But I wouldn't change anything else. I don't think that's necessary. Rountree: And I said before, I'm not going to be a beneficiary of this action, but I will -- I will support the statement put forward by the Council Members that are going to proceed me, so I can -- I can support the recommendation that Luke and Joe and Councilman Milam have presented. Bird: Mayor, let's put it in. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, we don't know what it is. Bird: What? Kilchenmann: We don't know what the amount is that we -- Rountree: It's not going to break the budget, I know that. Kilchenmann: No, I'm sure it's not quite -- Nary: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Nary. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I have the amendment in front of me and there is only going to be a slight change, if I understand what the Council's discussion is. The increase recommended was for the Mayor's salary to increase to 86,625 in 2016 and 90,956 in 2017. The Council Members amount was -- it's going to remain fixed. The recommendation from the committee was to increase the Council President by ten percent above what the Council makes. So, I think the Council is currently 10,000 per year, so it would be 11,000 for the next two years for the Council President position. So, it's slightly different than the memo. I just wanted to put that on the record. If that's the Council's direction I will prepare an ordinance. An ordinance has to be approved by you by August 11th. If that's your direction I can bring you an ordinance next week. Bird: I would suggest that. Zaremba: Madam Mayor, that works for me. De Weerd: Okay. Any other business? Bird: We got to get Tom, don't we? City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 74 of 76 De Weerd: Oh, yeah. You don't have an innocent look even if you try. Did you see him? Anything? Cavener: Thanks to the arts department for their help today. Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Can I project one thing? Let's -- we will leave the three percent in, but everybody give it a thought of what -- what's transpired here on the deal and -- and I kind of -- for this year think about what Patty said that we give everybody a two percent COLA raise and I would also like to ask Patty if she could, before our public hearing, come back and kind of go over the last couple of years and what percent -- what we went from on the merit, like zero to five or ten percent, what we did, because I -- do you have any way of knowing that, Patty? Good. If you could let us know some of that I would appreciate it. I want to know how many got five or six or ten and how many got zero percent on the merit raise. De Weerd: Good luck following this conversation, Dean. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: A couple of things. If we are done, which I think we are, for today, at least for me, splitting this process into two days allowed us, I think, to get a little more into the detail to be able to make even more educated difficult decisions. So, as clumsy as it might have been, it might continue to improve. So, a big thank you to Finance and to all of the directors who had to kind of wait in the fog a little bit as we split this into two days. I thought it was very helpful. One thing in particular. I thought it was helpful to focus the discussion that Councilman Rountree brought up and at least from what I have seen and we are talking about burn rates and unrestricted fund balance, the city, looking back over the years, has been blessed with extremely conservative fiscal management, starting with Finance in its forecasting and to this Council. Councilman Rountree has been a big part of that over many, many, many years and it's not surprising, quite frankly, that he starts the discussion this afternoon to kind of focus our efforts on difficult decisions. So, the city is, as I say, has lots of blessings. This process has shown that. Hats off to Councilman Rountree over many years of service and kind of shepherding this process and helping us even today make tough decisions. De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I second all that. That was -- that was excellent. I would also add I would appreciate -- I appreciated the fact that the two days were not back to back. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 75 of 76 Having the time between them to munge it over in the head and have other people looking at variations as well I think was excellent and appreciated that. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Just my thanks to staff, the directors, the Mayor for pulling the budget together. The Council for putting up with my lectures. I think we continue to improve the way we go about our charge. I hope that it will continue to get refined and that there is no offense taken by some of the things that we ask and/or request. We are simply trying to do our job and I think it's a job that all of you take as well in being part of our community and appreciate the time and effort that the Council has put in on this. I can heat my house for a couple days with the budget book when I go home. De Weerd: Oh, no. Rountree: But, yeah, thank you so much for the help and the direction, really and truly. De Weerd: And I hope our directors go back and share with our staff Council's appreciation. I know they and you have all been at work on this since January. It's a great way to start the new year with reminders from Finance, from base budget line item discussions, to enhancements, compensation, all of that. There is a lot of work that goes into it and it is all appreciated. So, we will have some continued conversations upcoming for fall after we get this wrapped up and we start bringing those discussions back to you on your workshop agendas and we appreciated your -- your insight and your direction and we look forward to continuing the discussion. Rountree: See you all at 6:00. De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Bird: So moved. Milam: Second. Zaremba: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Oh, Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Do we need to make a motion to have this published before the hearing? Rountree: No. Kilchenmann: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, Todd will have to make this be more than it is now, so you will do that next week, in other words. City of Meridian Special Meeting Budget Workshop July 21, 2015 Page 76 of 76 Zaremba: Okay. It doesn't require a motion from us? Rountree: You're going to see it again. De Weerd: Yes. You're going to see it a couple more times. Okay. So, I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:20 P.M. 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